1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Previously on drilled. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 2: They believe that oil and coal were put here in 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 2: the United States by God. 4 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 3: For us to use. 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 4: And I don't know how you that's not a scientific argument, 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 4: that's almost that's a theological argument or religious I don't 7 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 4: know what you do with that. 8 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: We know that throughout the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties, 9 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: oil companies, manufacturers, and anyone else who might feel threatened 10 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: by emissions regulations teamed up to fund, conceive, and execute 11 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: comprehensive social influence campaigns. They targeted the media in various ways, 12 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: and the culture too. The final prong of that effort 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: was in the institutional sphere, targeting local, state, and federal government, 14 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: public education and research being conducted at the country's top universities. 15 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 2: When we look at a microcosm of Ohio, we see 16 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: that the Coke network is at work on the state 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: level and at the county low. 18 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 4: Among that set of dedicated research centers that are really 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 4: influential in technology, research and training future people working in 20 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 4: climate also influencing the IPCC that a majority, I would 21 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,919 Speaker 4: say a majority of funding in those centers comes from 22 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 4: fossil field groups. 23 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 5: We have the documentation starting in the fifties and sixties 24 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 5: about them putting out educational material for grade schools and 25 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 5: high schools about the wonders of oil. 26 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: Every company and every industry lobbies government officials for policies 27 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: and regulations that are favorable to them. The whole lobbying 28 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: complex is its own tangled knot for another podcast, But 29 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: when it comes to climate and energy policy, influencing regulations 30 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: goes way beyond garden variety DC lobbying. These influence campaigns 31 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: aim to manipulate every piece of information around climate science 32 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: and how people process that information. Environmental sociologist Bob Rule 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: has spent decades digging into these campaigns. He's uncovered which 34 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: think tanks, nonprofits, and consumer groups are actually funded by 35 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: fossil fuel interests, and how they work together to influence policy, 36 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: and he is deep in the weeds on this stuff. 37 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 5: To get on this graph, the organization had to show up. 38 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 5: They can any one of these six areas. They had 39 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 5: to show up any one of thirty one climate coalitions, 40 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 5: show up at the UN Climate meetings, at show up 41 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 5: in the New York Times as the source of being 42 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 5: written about. 43 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: For Rule, it's important to know what you're up against, 44 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 1: so you can strategize accordingly. His take on how well 45 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: the environmental movement has done on that front is mainly 46 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: summed up by the only Nick Knack in his office and. 47 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 5: Then Oliver here, I have seen the Saint Yeah, it's 48 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 5: Saint Jude. What's Saint Jude? The patriot? 49 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: Sat Yes. 50 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: Brule has also spent a considerable amount of time looking 51 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: at how the fossil fuel industry has tried to control 52 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: its image over the years. One way is to continuously 53 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: hammer home the point that fossil fuels are absolutely critical 54 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: to American progress. That's a message that wasn't just pushed 55 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: to the media, but also to school children. And his research, 56 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: Brule has found documentation of the American Patroleum Institute's efforts, 57 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: starting as early as post World War II era, to 58 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: integrate this message into public school education. 59 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 5: We have the documentation starting in the fifties and sixties 60 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 5: about them putting out educational material for grade schools and 61 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 5: high schools about the wonders of oil and all this stuff. 62 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 5: So basically it's a propaganda campaign. It's not to attack 63 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 5: climate change. They don't even have to use the words 64 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 5: climate change. What they're doing is they're seeding in the 65 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 5: unconscious the idea that fossil fuels equals progress and good life. 66 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: In addition to outspending environmental groups ten to one, the 67 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: various companies and organizations seeking to stop any sort of 68 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: action on climate change have also been working to slow 69 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: the adoption of renewable energy, despite the booming solar and 70 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: wind markets. They do so both by influencing government officials 71 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: at the state and local level, and by focusing US 72 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: research efforts on far off experimental technologies rather than those 73 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: that could be implemented in the near future. Scott Peterson 74 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: has been running a year's long investigation into the Koch 75 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: Brothers network of influence, particularly as it pertains to renewable energy. 76 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: He's recently been focused on Ohio, where state Senator Bill Sites, 77 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,679 Speaker 1: whose campaigns have been funded by the Kochs since about 78 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: twenty twelve, has been the state's primary blocker to wind energy. 79 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: But even at the county level, Peterson found the influence 80 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: of fossil fuel interests. 81 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 2: So there's a wind project in Ohio in Seneca County, 82 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 2: there's a couple of them ongoing, And what we found 83 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: is that the chairman of the Zeneca County Board of 84 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: Supervisor flipped. He was four wind and then suddenly he 85 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: flipped against it. And what we found was that he 86 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 2: was in about a three month period, bombarded with a 87 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: guy who was sending him material from coke based front groups. 88 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 2: I mean they were from all around the United States. 89 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: There were even some from Canada. So this poor county 90 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 2: chairman may be somewhat unsophisticated in the world of energy, 91 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: suddenly was bombarded by this local activist. So when we 92 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: look at a microcosm of Ohio, we see that the 93 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 2: coke network is at work on the state level and 94 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:48,679 Speaker 2: at the county level. 95 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: If you unravel how policy gets made, eventually you get 96 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: all the way back to academic research on everything from 97 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: the economics of praising carbon to climate model to renewable 98 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: energy technology. In these days, fossil fuel interests have a 99 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: huge amount of influence over what gets researched and how. 100 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: Ben Fronta, a jd PhD candidate at Stanford Law School 101 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: and the Stanford Department of History, first began digging into 102 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: the influence of fossil fuel interests on climate research when 103 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: he was a student at Harvard. His first clue came 104 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: when he joined the movement to encourage the campus to 105 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: divest from fossil fuels. 106 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 4: I was involved with helping to organize the fossil fuel 107 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 4: devestment movement at Harvard, and we would go to faculty 108 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 4: and we would try to solicit their support, and we 109 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 4: noticed something kind of interesting, which was that most faculty 110 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 4: were either neutral or they would support it. But the 111 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 4: faculty that actually were opposed to it actively and would 112 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 4: write about it in the press, I would say, more 113 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 4: often than not. In fact, almost all the time, these 114 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 4: faculty were funded by fossil fuel groups. 115 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: The research directors at the Kennedy School of Government where 116 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: Fronto was working called the researchers in and asked them 117 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: not to answer any questions about funding. 118 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 4: We were called in for a staff meeting and our 119 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 4: research director told us, you know, there's a lot of 120 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 4: activists and journalists snooping around and trying to inquire about 121 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 4: our funding and funding from the oil industry. And he said, 122 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 4: if anybody talks to you, don't tell them anything. You know, 123 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 4: don't talk to them and send them to me instead. 124 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 4: For an academic institution to actually tell its researchers, don't 125 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 4: tell other people where your funding comes from. 126 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: That experience prompted Fronta to begin digging into what exactly 127 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: oil companies were funding at university campuses and how much 128 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: influence that funding brought them. He has since partnered with 129 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Supran at Harvard and what they've found it's pretty shocking. 130 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 4: What we found was that a clear majority of the 131 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 4: sponsorships themselves come from fossil field groups, and the biggest sponsorships, 132 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 4: there's a few that are huge compared to the rest, 133 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 4: and they also come from fossil field groups, usually the 134 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 4: fossil field producers themselves, and so we can infer quite 135 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 4: confidently that among that set of dedicated research centers that 136 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 4: are really influential in technology research and training, you know, 137 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 4: future people working in climate also influencing the IPCC, that 138 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 4: a majority, i would say a majority of funding in 139 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 4: those centers comes from fossil field groups. 140 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: We're not talking about little known universities tucked away in 141 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: the heart of coal country either where the industry is concerned. 142 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: The more prestigious the university, the better. With research centers 143 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 1: at Stanford, MIT, Harvard, and more. 144 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 4: The MIT Energy Initiative, you know, probably the flagship energy 145 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 4: research entity at MIT, and that very very heavily majority 146 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 4: funded by fossil fuel groups. Very similar situation here at 147 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 4: Stanford where the major climate energy research center here is 148 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 4: called g SEP GCEP Global Climate and Energy Project. Again 149 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 4: that center is majority funded by fossil fuel interests, and 150 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 4: again the funders do have influence built into the structure 151 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 4: of how research projects are chosen. 152 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: In an article Supran and Fronta co authored in The 153 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: Guardian last year, they tell the story if something both 154 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: say happens all the time at these centers. In this 155 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: particular story, the Harvard Kennedy School screen to documentary billed 156 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: as a quote balanced discussion about today's energy issues. Supran 157 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: in FRONTA right, who can argue with balance and rationality 158 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: and with Harvard's stamp of approval, surely the information presented 159 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: to students and the public would be credible and reliable. 160 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: Right wrong. They then go on to debunk most of 161 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: the quote solutions suggested in the documentary and explained that 162 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: the dock was funded by Shell, which has also given 163 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: three point seventy five million dollars to the Harvard Kennedy School. 164 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: The events panel included an executive vice president from Shell, 165 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: and the documentary included various experts identified only by their 166 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: academic credentials and not their various industry ties. These sorts 167 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: of things happen often and systemically, and it's hard not 168 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: to think that has something to do with the funding 169 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: these centers received from the industry. Funding from Shell, Chevron, 170 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: BP and other oil and gas companies dominates Harvard's Energy 171 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: and Climate Policy research and Harvard Research Directors consult for 172 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: the industry down the street at MIT. The five founding 173 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 1: members of the MIT Energy Initiative are all commercial fossil 174 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: fuel producers Exonmobil, Shell, BP, Aramco, and Enny, the Italian 175 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: oil company across the country. At Stanford, Exonmobile contributed one 176 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars of the two hundred million in startup 177 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: funding for the Global climent An Energy Project or g SEP, 178 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 1: and has continued to contribute more funds since the center's 179 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: founding in two thousand and two. In their Guardian article, 180 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: Fronta and Supran right to say that these experts and 181 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: research centers have conflicts of interests is an understatement. Many 182 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: of them exist as they do only because of the 183 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: fossil fuel industry. They are industry projects with the appearance 184 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: of neutrality and credibility given by academia. At GSP, representatives 185 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: from each funding corporation form a management committee that is 186 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: formally involved in selecting research projects and has final say 187 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:41,599 Speaker 1: over project funding. The benefits of these research initiatives are multifaceted. 188 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: They shape the public's understanding of climate science and fossil fuels, 189 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: and influence the science on which any future regulation or 190 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: policy will be based. 191 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 4: When you can successfully fund researchers of your choosing, then 192 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 4: you get a whole host of benefits in return. It's 193 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 4: a very kind of like multi dimensional kickback process. So 194 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 4: I mean, for one, you shape the scientific discourse because 195 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 4: it might be true that that research or your funding 196 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 4: would have done that research anyway, but they probably wouldn't 197 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 4: have done as much of it because they wouldn't have 198 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 4: had the same resources. Their voice wouldn't be as prominent. 199 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 4: Because with that funding they gained prominence, they can head 200 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 4: up their own research center at a university. When they 201 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 4: head up their own research center, they can multiply their 202 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 4: output vastly, and they also have opportunities to be hired 203 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 4: at more prestigious institutions. And ideally, from the industry standpoint, 204 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 4: the ideal situation is you have industry friendly researchers who 205 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 4: are funded by the industry, who are heading up industry 206 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 4: funded research centers at the most prestigious universities in the 207 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 4: United States. 208 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: These efforts have been widespread, well funded, and extremely effective. 209 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: It's not an overstatement to say we're farther away from 210 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: tackling climate change now than we were thirty years ago. 211 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: And those weren't just any thirty years. Those specific years 212 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: were critical to stopping warming at a livable level. Had 213 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: there been a systemic shift toward lower emissions and renewable energy, 214 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: lives would have been saved. And while the industry often 215 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: frames it as a question of life and death for 216 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: a major part of the economy, it's just not. In 217 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: one hand you have the earnings reports of a few companies, 218 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: and in the other you have the viability of the 219 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: human race on this planet. And yet somehow a small 220 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 1: and powerful group of men were able to convince an 221 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: entire nation what they knew themselves was not true, that 222 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: climate change was uncertain, and that until we knew more, 223 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: we should not act. They were so successful, in fact, 224 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: that they've now landed in court with cities, counties, States 225 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 1: and various groups of people suing Exon Shell, Chevron, BP, 226 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: and more for damages. In the next episode, we'll look 227 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: at why that happened and what it might accomplish. Next 228 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: time on Drilled, you. 229 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 3: Know it's like, okay, yeah, this really was done to 230 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 3: the publics, really was done to the world a large 231 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 3: and this science was disputed when in fact the issues 232 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 3: were to a large degree resolved. 233 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: Drilled is produced and distributed by Critical Frequency. Reporting for 234 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: this series was done by me Amy Westervelt. Our producer 235 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: and composer is David Whited. Our executive producer is Richard Wiles. 236 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: Our story and concept consultant was Raka Murphy. Our cover 237 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: art was designed by Lucas Lizakowski. You can find Drilled 238 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. Please remember to rate and 239 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: review the podcast. It helps us find new listeners. Thanks 240 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: for listening, See you next time. M hmm.