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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 3: Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 3: What do we have, Grissel.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, we do many big things that are happening this week.

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Speaker 4: So we had big Scotus.

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Speaker 1: Oral arguments yesterday about a case that is absolutely vital

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Speaker 1: to free speech and bad news did not appear to

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Speaker 1: go well for team free speech. Also, the Don Lemon

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Speaker 1: versus Elon Musk interview also did not go that well

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Speaker 1: for free speech. So we'll show you some of the

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Speaker 1: low light highlights, whatever you want to call it, from

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Speaker 1: that interesting moments. RFK Junior has apparently chosen his vice

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Speaker 1: presidential pick. There are reported out rumors about who that

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Speaker 1: may be. That announcement is set for next week in Oakland.

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Speaker 1: So we tell you what we know there. We also

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Speaker 1: want to break down this is actually incredibly consequential, huge

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Speaker 1: landmark shift in the housing market that could completely upend

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Speaker 1: the entire real estate industry. Not a lie, not a joke,

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Speaker 1: as Joe Biden would say, not a joke. So we'll

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Speaker 1: get into that and what that could mean for you.

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Speaker 1: We also have some more disturbing details about the death

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Speaker 1: of that Boeing whistleblower. You just cannot believe the latest

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Speaker 1: things that have come out. Or also taking a look

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Speaker 1: at the latest out of Israel. They have once again

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Speaker 1: rated Al Shifa Hospital. Will break that down for a

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Speaker 1: new report about the extent of the famine and starvation

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Speaker 1: that is being caused by Israel in the Gaza Strip,

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Speaker 1: and the Biden administration making some very noteworthy comments calling

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Speaker 1: out bb directly as they escalate their rhetorical concern for

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Speaker 1: civilians in the Gaza Strip. I'm also going to do

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Speaker 1: this is going to be whatever. I'm going to break

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Speaker 1: down that big debate from Lex Friedman. It was Destiny,

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Speaker 1: Norman Finkelstein, Marien Rabani and Benny Morris, season Israeli historian.

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Speaker 4: It was very interesting. I'm taking a.

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Speaker 1: Look at some of the building blocks of Israeli propaganda

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Speaker 1: as on display during this debate.

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Speaker 3: So excellent, excited for that. It's going to be long.

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Speaker 3: Just the heads up for everybody.

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Speaker 4: It took me a lot, going to be kind of together.

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Speaker 1: The freaking debate was five hours long, so I promise

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Speaker 1: my monologue will be a lot shorter than the debate.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, I think personally, yeah, first, it was like

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Speaker 2: the meme whenever I saw the run length, where it's like,

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Speaker 2: I'm happy for you, I'm sorry for you. I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure what happened, but I ain't reading all that Personally,

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Speaker 2: Kyle and I.

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Speaker 4: Had a long drive. I'm very Carolina, so we just.

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Speaker 2: Cooked it down well, and I'm very happy that you

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Speaker 2: are taking the time as a synthesizer for everybody. Before

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Speaker 2: we get to that, thank you to everybody. Couple of things.

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Speaker 2: Number One, on the emails to our premium subscribers, we

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Speaker 2: are working on it. We're to maintain continue to watch

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Speaker 2: your inbox. Everything should be delivered correctly today. If it

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Speaker 2: is not, just send us an email and we will

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Speaker 2: try and figure it out for you. Number two, As

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Speaker 2: we teased yesterday, we do have big announcements coming for

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Speaker 2: our premium subscribers in particular, you're going to want to

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Speaker 2: sign up at breakingpoints dot Com. You're looking at a

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Speaker 2: major upgrade in our premium service. We cannot get into

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Speaker 2: all of the details, but for those who are with us,

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Speaker 2: you are really going to enjoy it and it's just

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Speaker 2: really going to be better for you. So Breakingpoints dot Com,

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Speaker 2: as I said, you can sign up today and we

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Speaker 2: have the discount that is going on.

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Speaker 3: Indeed, let's start with the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 2: As Crystal said, team free Speech didn't do so well

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Speaker 2: before the Supreme Court. We've put together some elements from

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Speaker 2: the audio of the actual hearings where the case that

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Speaker 2: was brought forward was won by two Republican Attorney generals

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Speaker 2: against the Biden administration stemming from twenty twenty one. That

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Speaker 2: case revolves if people are familiar, for example, White House

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Speaker 2: officials contacting social media companies and pressuring them to censor

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Speaker 2: and take down what they alleged was COVID nineteen misinformation.

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Speaker 2: So we have two kind of sides of the different

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Speaker 2: arguments to see how they were received before the court,

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Speaker 2: and then we'll break down even more of it afterwards. First,

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Speaker 2: let's start with Justice Samuel Alito kind of coming down

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Speaker 2: on the free speed side.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a.

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Speaker 5: Listen exchanged between the White House and other federal officials

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Speaker 5: and Facebook in particular, but also some of the other platforms.

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Speaker 5: And I see that the White House and federal officials

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Speaker 5: are repeatedly saying that Facebook and the federal government should

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Speaker 5: be partners. We are on the same team. Officials are

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Speaker 5: demanding answers. I want an answer, I want it right away.

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Speaker 5: When they're unhappy, they curse them out their regular meetings.

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Speaker 5: There is constant pestering of Facebook and some of the

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Speaker 5: other platforms, and they want to have regular meetings, and

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Speaker 5: they suggest why don't you They suggest rules that should

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Speaker 5: be applied, and why don't you tell us everything that

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Speaker 5: you're going to do so we can help you and

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Speaker 5: we can look it over. And I thought, wow, I

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Speaker 5: cannot imagine federal officials taking that approach to the the

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Speaker 5: print media, our representatives over there. If you did that

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Speaker 5: to them, what do you think the reaction would be?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, he's actually making a pretty good point there, Crystal.

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Speaker 2: Imagine if a government official ever came to us and

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Speaker 2: was like, hey, how about you change some of your

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Speaker 2: talking points?

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Speaker 3: And the way they think.

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Speaker 2: I mean they maybe they would do it to us

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Speaker 2: because we're not as established in their eyes, but I

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Speaker 2: mean they could try and do it to the New

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Speaker 2: York Times. The New York Times will probably just published

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Speaker 2: the entire thing. It would never be treated that way.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was an important point from Samuel Alito

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Speaker 2: because what he is ascribing there is he is saying

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Speaker 2: and noting both the Facebook role as a publisher, and

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Speaker 2: then noting also the Biden administrations the way that the

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Speaker 2: norms have evolved such that they have different ways they

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Speaker 2: might deal with the New York Times, for example, as

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Speaker 2: opposed to a mass platform of communication for everybody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean the reality is the government does

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Speaker 1: communicate with the New York Times, you know, especially when

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Speaker 1: they're reporting out something that contains potentially classified information and

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Speaker 1: there's a question of whether it could harm national skin.

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Speaker 4: There is a given take there.

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Speaker 1: But I think what he's getting to is that the

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Speaker 1: extent and nature of the communications here, the amount of

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Speaker 1: basically badgering from the government when it came to these platforms,

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Speaker 1: is way beyond what you would think was appropriate when

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Speaker 1: it comes to other more traditional media, and we would

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Speaker 1: understand it more clearly as wildly inappropriate if these types

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Speaker 1: of communications, swearing, badgering, constant meetings, not just okay, visavi

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Speaker 1: this one particular story, let's make sure that we're not

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Speaker 1: harming national security, but on a variety of topics and

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Speaker 1: consistently over time, we would easily see that as inappropriate

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Speaker 1: when it comes to The New York Times the Washington Post.

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Speaker 1: Yet because of social media and we get sort of

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Speaker 1: like fuzzy in our head about what these platforms are

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Speaker 1: and what they mean to society, then it becomes entirely

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Speaker 1: less clear.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: And so then to show everybody the counter side of

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Speaker 2: how it looks is got Katanji Brown Jackson, Justice Jackson

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Speaker 2: talking and raising about how the First Amendment may actually

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Speaker 2: be an obstacle then to important function of the government.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a listen to what she had to say.

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Speaker 6: So, my biggest concern is that your view has the

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Speaker 6: First Amendment hamstringing the government in significant ways in the

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Speaker 6: most important time periods. I mean, what would you have

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Speaker 6: the government do. I've heard you say a couple of

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Speaker 6: times that the government can post its own speech, But

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Speaker 6: in my hypothetical, you know, kids, this is not safe.

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Speaker 6: Don't do it, is not going to get it done.

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Speaker 6: And so I guess some might say that the government

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Speaker 6: actually has a duty to take steps to protect the

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Speaker 6: citizens of this country, and you seem to be suggesting

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Speaker 6: that that duty cannot manifest itself in the government encouraging

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Speaker 6: or even pressuring platforms to take down harmful information.

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Speaker 3: So can you help me, because.

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Speaker 6: I'm really worried about that, because you've got the First

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Speaker 6: Amendment operating in an environment of threatening circumstances from the

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Speaker 6: government's perspective, and you're saying that the government can't interact

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Speaker 6: with the source of those problems.

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Speaker 2: So, as you can see, using and kind of worried

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Speaker 2: that the First Amendment is going in front of the

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Speaker 2: government's ability to at least coerce agencies, social media companies

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Speaker 2: and others to censor information that they don't like.

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Speaker 3: Let's put this up there on the screen.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, Justice Jackson's line of questioning and the skepticism of

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Speaker 2: it seemed to really.

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Speaker 3: Carry the day.

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Speaker 2: From all of the rite ups of the correspondence that

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Speaker 2: were present for the multi hour arguments, what they really

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Speaker 2: note is that the vast majority appeared to believe that

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Speaker 2: with the way that there's ruling and the merits of

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Speaker 2: the case were brought forward, that the solicitors of these

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Speaker 2: Republican states were not able to demonstrate what a clear

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Speaker 2: and extended harm would be like, and that furthermore, what

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Speaker 2: they were really worried about was quote, hamstringing the government power.

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Speaker 2: It's very likely that a conservative justice, there at least

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Speaker 2: a majority of conservative justice will rule with the liberal

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Speaker 2: justices and that this will come out in favor of

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Speaker 2: the Biden administration.

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Speaker 1: Crystal, Yeah, I frankly find the type of language that

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Speaker 1: she was using, they're terrifying.

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Speaker 3: Yes, great, find is terrifying.

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Speaker 1: I mean what she said is my biggest concern is

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Speaker 1: that your view has the First Amendment hamstringing the government

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Speaker 1: in significant ways. That is part of what the First

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Speaker 1: Amendment is about when it comes to ensuring First Amendment

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Speaker 1: rights for the citizens of this country. And nothing about

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Speaker 1: this case says that the government can't put out there.

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Speaker 1: You know, part of this had to do with COVID

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Speaker 1: and the COVID vaccine, right, Nothing says the government can't

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Speaker 1: put out their view of of the vaccine, their recommendations

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Speaker 1: with regard to the vaccine, whatever information that they want

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Speaker 1: that is not being constrained whatsoever. But by what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about here, what we're talking about is them pressuring

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Speaker 1: and badgering and in some ways implicitly threatening the social

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Speaker 1: media company to tow their line and quash the speech

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Speaker 1: of individual citizens who have a different view that they

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Speaker 1: want to express. That's what that comes down to. So

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Speaker 1: the view that seemed to rule the day or win

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Speaker 1: the day on this court, and not just from Katanji

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Speaker 1: bron Jackson, although I thought her reasoning year was particularly terrifying,

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Speaker 1: was that no, the government's rights to censor and control

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Speaker 1: information that they deem as bad as if they have

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Speaker 1: a monopoly on truth, that is the thing that we're

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Speaker 1: going to prioritize. And I find that wrong. I find

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Speaker 1: it horrifying. I think that it is a slippery slope.

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Speaker 1: And I think it also Soccer really ignores something that

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Speaker 1: liberals like Katanji bron Jackson would clearly see in a

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Speaker 1: different setting, which even if the government is not directly

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Speaker 1: saying like we're going to pull your contracts, we're going

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Speaker 1: to shut you down, we're going to break you up

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Speaker 1: if you don't do what we say, because the government

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Speaker 1: is so large and does have those powers in it.

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Speaker 1: The very nature of those conversations contains a power dynamic

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Speaker 1: that is explicit, that is implicitly threatening in and of itself.

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Speaker 1: And I think that piece was also completely ignored here.

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Speaker 1: And again I think, you know, usually liberals see those

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Speaker 1: power dynamics and describe a lot of merit to them.

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Speaker 1: Here that all seems to be completely invisible. One other

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Speaker 1: thing I wanted to point out, which is just kind

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Speaker 1: of an irony, and it was something that Fire the

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Speaker 1: Free Speech Organization in their front of the court brief

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Speaker 1: talked about, and they are, you know, they are very

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Speaker 1: much on the side of free speech. I think they're

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Speaker 1: a very solid and consistent and principled organization. They pointed

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Speaker 1: out that, you know, they take the side of free speech,

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Speaker 1: even though some of the Republicans who are behind this

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Speaker 1: suit and what constrained the Biden administration's stability are sort

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Speaker 1: of on the other side. And these other free speech

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Speaker 1: cases that we talked about where they want to give

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Speaker 1: states the power to censor control speech. So there is

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Speaker 1: an irony here, you know, implicit in the Republican position.

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Speaker 1: But to me, this isn't a right left Republican Democrat.

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Speaker 1: This really does come down to the First Amendment, and

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Speaker 1: you can see by the unanimity in the court here

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Speaker 1: that it's not a left right Republican Democrat thing, and

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Speaker 1: it appears that they're very likely to come down on

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Speaker 1: the wrong side of this.

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Speaker 2: It's particularly Justices Cavanaugh and Kagan, both of whom who worked. Kagan,

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Speaker 2: for example, was the Solicitor General under Barack Obama. Cavanaugh

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Speaker 2: worked as a political operative in the Bush White House.

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Speaker 2: Both of them were taking a line of question which

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Speaker 2: was very, very heavily slanted towards executive power. We can

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Speaker 2: put this next one please up on the screen because

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Speaker 2: I found one ride up actually very illuminating from Justice

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Speaker 2: Amy Cony Barrett, where she asks in a hypothetical where

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Speaker 2: if any Louisiana government officials were, say, docks followed by

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Speaker 2: social media posts about how people should rally and do

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Speaker 2: something about this, could the FBI, she queried, quote, really

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Speaker 2: encourage social media platforms to take down these posts?

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Speaker 3: Now the Solicitor gen role of.

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Speaker 2: The state said well no, because if what the FBI

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Speaker 2: is trying to do is trying to persuade a speech

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Speaker 2: intermediary to take down a private third party speech. That

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Speaker 2: would be an abridgment of speech to which Justice Barrett

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Speaker 2: did not agree with that line of questioning. And I

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Speaker 2: mean that's ridiculous for a number of reasons. Number One,

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Speaker 2: doxing is already against the is a violation of the

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Speaker 2: terms of service of all of these platforms. Why would

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Speaker 2: the FBI quote need to encourage it. And this is

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Speaker 2: the whole point. If you just have a consistent set

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Speaker 2: of rules, then the government has to operate under the

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Speaker 2: same rules.

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Speaker 3: As everybody else.

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Speaker 2: But when you have this hodgepodge system, and this really

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Speaker 2: gets to both the failure of social media regulation as

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Speaker 2: well as government action. Well, then the government, with its

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Speaker 2: immense leverage and its power. I mean, look, any of us,

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Speaker 2: if any of us who've ever been on the receiving

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Speaker 2: end of a phone call from the White House with

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Speaker 2: that infamous no caller ID or from the EOP address,

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Speaker 2: is like whoa every time time anyone that comes out,

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Speaker 2: I don't care if you're in the media, I don't

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Speaker 2: care if you see it regularly. Every time you see it,

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Speaker 2: you pay attention. You have to pay attention whenever your Twitter,

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Speaker 2: whenever your Facebook or any of these other organizations that

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Speaker 2: we saw so many of this crystal during the Twitter.

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Speaker 3: Files, remember the FBI flagging all of those.

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Speaker 2: Ridiculous posts, and I mean, yeah, they'd be finding one

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Speaker 2: guy with six followers who'd be like, hey, guys, the

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Speaker 2: elections on Wednesday, and they're like, hey, you got to

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Speaker 2: take this shut the thing down. And guess what they

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Speaker 2: actually did it though they really did do it, And

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Speaker 2: if anything, you know, it's very concerning that these justices

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Speaker 2: are not taking into account that the vast majority of

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Speaker 2: the time they do comply with what the government wants

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Speaker 2: them to do, and especially here in the COVID case,

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Speaker 2: because this is even a heightened environment. I think we

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Speaker 2: talked a little bit about this yesterday. For example, in

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Speaker 2: the Constituents being Blocked case, where in the middle of

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Speaker 2: a lockdown you had a guy who was a critical

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Speaker 2: of his local like I forget who it was, it

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Speaker 2: was like the city manager or something like that their

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Speaker 2: lockdown policy, and the guy blocked him. And it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: if you're in the middle of lockdown, you only have

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Speaker 2: the ability to communicate and to articulate some of these

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Speaker 2: things online, as some of these cases were happening, then

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Speaker 2: your ability to express yourself freely online without government censorship

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Speaker 2: becomes even more important. So really imagine this in a

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Speaker 2: heightened like a wartime scenario, pandemic scenario, where government power

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Speaker 2: is even more expanded than normal and they're really coming

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Speaker 2: down on.

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Speaker 3: The ability of the executive to just do what they want.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a real travesy.

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Speaker 4: They absolutely are.

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Speaker 1: It sort of reminds me of the way that they

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Speaker 1: have so narrowly defined corruption, oh good point where it

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Speaker 1: literally has to be like Sager, here is some money

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Speaker 1: in exchange for doing this thing for me, and then

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Speaker 1: you do the thing, and it's like in writing and

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Speaker 1: on video, and it has to be that direct. It

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Speaker 1: seems like if you did have some direct government threat

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Speaker 1: or corrosion.

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Speaker 4: Of like you know, Facebook, we're going.

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Speaker 1: To break you up if you don't take down that

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Speaker 1: post saying election day is on Wednesday instead of being

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Speaker 1: on Tuesday, maybe they would say, okay, that's inappropriate. But

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Speaker 1: if they're just you know, having some friendly meanings some

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Speaker 1: coffees where they're yelling at them every day and swearing

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Speaker 1: at them and pressuring them, but there's no direct coercion,

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Speaker 1: then that's okay.

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Speaker 4: It's this sort of very.

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Speaker 1: Narrow defining of what would be inappropriate here. That does

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Speaker 1: remind me of the way that they have ruled with

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Speaker 1: regard to corruption. Just to break down a little bit

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Speaker 1: more of sort of the technical legal pieces of this case,

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Speaker 1: and this was reflected that scotus Blog piece. There's basically

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Speaker 1: three potential you know, decision points in terms of how

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Speaker 1: they will rule. One is always this question of standing

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Speaker 1: whether the parties who sued even have grounds to sue,

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Speaker 1: whether they were actually injured. There's some question about that

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Speaker 1: because these are you know, states that brought this suit.

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Speaker 4: States don't technically have first.

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Speaker 1: A memorts it applies to citizens, so there's some question

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Speaker 1: about that. Then there's the merits themselves. And then there's

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Speaker 1: the idea that the the original the original ruling that

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Speaker 1: came from an appeals court was too broad because it

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Speaker 1: applied to all social media platforms when the individuals in

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Speaker 1: question we're not using all social media platforms. So the

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Speaker 1: government is saying, okay, even if you find with them,

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Speaker 1: the judgment should be very limited to just the social

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Speaker 1: media platforms that we're involved here. So those are sort

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Speaker 1: of the three main pieces that Scotus Blog breaks that down.

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Speaker 1: They're going to have to make decisions on and they

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Speaker 1: appear to even be skeptical of this question of standing Sager.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's where look the danger of it

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Speaker 2: from the ruling, and it does seem very very likely

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Speaker 2: that this is going down as a pretty big margin

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Speaker 2: is that the government, both the Biden administration possibly a

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Speaker 2: future Trump administration can call up Facebook and call up

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Speaker 2: any of these people and tell them to take stuff down. Now,

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Speaker 2: obviously they can't force them, but you know, Glenn Greenwald

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Speaker 2: made a really good point about how Mark Zuckerberg, you know,

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Speaker 2: publicly had talked both i think on the Lex Rieman

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Speaker 2: podcast on the Joe Rogan podcast as well about how

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Speaker 2: the FB is coming to them all the time with

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Speaker 2: all of this fakery, and that's what led to the

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Speaker 2: censorship of the Hunter Biden laptop story, which was a

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent true story. It was preempted by government action.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't just the private bureaucrats at Twitter.

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Speaker 1: So one last point, just to drive it home, well,

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Speaker 1: leave the TikTok debate for another day, but you agree

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Speaker 1: with me that the reason that the TikTok thing has

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Speaker 1: legs right now is because they're upset about the pro

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Speaker 1: Palestine view no question, Yeah, that rules the day on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: You don't think they will use these powers or may

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Speaker 1: even right now be using these powers to quash pro

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Speaker 1: Palestinian debate and viewpoints on a wide variety of social

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Speaker 1: media platforms. That is absolutely possible that that's happening right now,

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Speaker 1: and the Supreme Court could be siding with the government

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Speaker 1: to say, yes, that's appropriate, Yes, you have an interest

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Speaker 1: in doing that, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: If Trump gets back in the White House.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you don't like Donald maybe you love

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden, your come with him having these powers. Put

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Speaker 1: the shoe on the other foot and think about the

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Speaker 1: way that Donald Trump and his administration could use these

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Speaker 1: powers to quash any sort of debate and dissent that

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Speaker 1: they find uncomfortable and they don't like. You do not

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Speaker 1: want to hand the guy. This is like, you know

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Speaker 1: what we learned with.

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Speaker 4: The Patriot Act.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to hand the government these types of

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Speaker 1: powers when it comes to core key liberties that are

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Speaker 1: supposed to be enshrined in the Constitution visa vi are citizens.

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Speaker 1: So this looks like very very dire and distressing direction.

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Speaker 2: One going, yeah, that's well said. You're right, so you

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Speaker 2: can apply it to everything. Ukraine bounced on any and

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Speaker 2: pick your issue.

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Speaker 3: That's something.

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Speaker 2: If it's controversially, you can guarantee that the government is involved.

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Speaker 2: Don Lemon finally dropped his interview with Elon Musk will

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Speaker 2: brush over some of the ketamine parts of which we've

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Speaker 2: already discussed. Frankly, not that all that controversial. And let's

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Speaker 2: get to the debate around censorship, the First Amendment and moderation,

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Speaker 2: which Don really is incapable of rap his head around.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 7: Do you think if there, if if you moderated yourself more,

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Speaker 7: if there was better content moderation on the platform, that

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Speaker 7: you wouldn't have to answer these questions from reporters about

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Speaker 7: the great great Replacement theory as a really I don't

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Speaker 7: have to answer great Replacement theory as it relates to

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Speaker 7: Jewish people.

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Speaker 8: Do you think that I don't have to answer questions

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Speaker 8: from requarters And the only reason I've been this interview

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Speaker 8: is because you're on the X platform and you ask

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Speaker 8: for it. Otherwise there would not do interview with this interview, So.

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Speaker 7: You don't think do you think that you wouldn't get

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Speaker 7: in trouble, or you wouldn't be criticized for these things.

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Speaker 8: Possibly I could care less.

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Speaker 9: You don't care.

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Speaker 10: No, I don't like.

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Speaker 8: I don't think people should care what the media thinks

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Speaker 8: about them.

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Speaker 7: They're terrible judges of character, even someone who has one

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Speaker 7: of the biggest social media and biggest information platforms in

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Speaker 7: the world.

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Speaker 8: You don't think.

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Speaker 4: You don't care.

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Speaker 7: You don't think that there's you have any X dot

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Speaker 7: Com or you have any responsibility to the truth. Are

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Speaker 7: moderating the platform, You're.

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Speaker 8: Conflating the truth with the media, and I think the

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Speaker 8: media is not truthful.

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Speaker 7: You recently call content moderation though a digital chastity belt.

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Speaker 7: Do you think that Do you believe that X and

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Speaker 7: you have some responsibility to moderate hate speech on the platform?

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Speaker 8: I think we have a responsibility to adhere to the law,

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Speaker 8: and we have a responsibility to be transparent about when

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Speaker 8: things are shown, why they're shown. So that's why we've

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Speaker 8: open source are algorithm. The I think once you start

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Speaker 8: getting going beyond the law, now you're putting it thumb

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Speaker 8: on the scale, and we don't want to put out

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Speaker 8: that on the scale.

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Speaker 7: It doesn't concern you that hate spece has gone. Research

440
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,679
Speaker 7: shows that it's gone up on the platform since you

441
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 7: took over. That's not concerning to you.

442
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 8: I believe that is false. In fact, the research that

443
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 8: I've seen says it went down. So what they will

444
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 8: typically do is they will count the number of posts,

445
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 8: but not count the number of views. So what matters

446
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 8: is was that a post given high visibility or what

447
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 8: did like one person see it? Uh? And if you

448
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 8: look at the number of views of how many how

449
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,919
Speaker 8: many times was Hayese content viewed on our platform? It

450
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 8: is down substantially.

451
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 7: Yeah, well that's not what the study shows. And you

452
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 7: said you like transparency, I'm going to show you this

453
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 7: and you can get a.

454
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 8: Study that to We'll tell you whatever you want.

455
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 7: But the studies this is, these are just a handful

456
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 7: of extremely. You look at those anti semitic and racist

457
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 7: tropes and tweets and as of this morning, they're still

458
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 7: on x And from your own content policy, these posts

459
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 7: should have been deleted. So why haven't they been deleted?

460
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 7: Why are they still there?

461
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 4: Do you?

462
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 8: Uh, we believe things if there are illegal, but these

463
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 8: have been up there for a while. Are they illegal?

464
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 7: They're not illegal, but they're hateful and they can. They

465
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 7: can lead to violence, as I just read to you.

466
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 7: The shooters you know, and all of these mass shootings

467
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 7: attributed social media to radicalizing.

468
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 8: So don your love satoship is what you're saying.

469
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 7: No, I don't love sense. Then why I believe in

470
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 7: moderation but I don't believe in censorship?

471
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 8: Is moderation is a propaganda word for censorship. You can

472
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 8: find like you can sign up right now and and

473
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 8: do a hundred things that are hateful, but if nobody

474
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 8: reads it, it doesn't matter. So you can think of

475
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,199
Speaker 8: X as being it's much like the Internet. It's not

476
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 8: some tiny publication with like twenty articles day, it's five million.

477
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 7: But everyone has the opportunity to read.

478
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 2: A d loon.

479
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 8: I think the opportunity to read the Internet. Are you

480
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 8: said suggesting we should shut down the Internet?

481
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: Okay, we're all much dumber for every That was hard

482
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 2: to entire entire conversation, but okay, let's try and extrapolate

483
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: anything important from it. Number One, Elon is correct when

484
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 2: he's like, you can find a fake study to say anything.

485
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 3: But by and large, I actually find.

486
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 2: His counter even more annoying because he's embracing this idea

487
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 2: of like algorithmic d ranking.

488
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 3: I don't believe in any of that.

489
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: Actually I believe it Hay speech is freeze each and

490
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 2: that he should be allowed to put it up. I mean, look,

491
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 2: you know you can have an offensive meme or all

492
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 2: of that, and Don loves like, why is that still up?

493
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 2: And then he confuses it being illegal with it. Well,

494
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: maybe not illegal, but you know, why should it be

495
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: up there.

496
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, you know it's not. It's not illegal.

497
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 3: That's why it should stay up there.

498
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: So there's both of them are kind of talking in fakery,

499
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 2: which much of this is an advertising problem, which belies

500
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: Elon's entire business model itself.

501
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 3: That's kind of secondary.

502
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: But I think the bigger problem is that Don cannot

503
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 2: like literally wrap his head around that correct counter where

504
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 2: he's like, well, people could read this, it could lead

505
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: to X, Y or Z with the idea that it

506
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 2: could be extended. This links very much with our Supreme

507
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: Court case that we just talked about, and that overall

508
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 2: it's a complete lack of understanding of First Amendment. It's

509
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: like truly wrapped in a censorious mindset. So I thought

510
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 2: it was just idiocy really all the way around.

511
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: Don Lemon clearly has a very bad case of CNN

512
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: brain and it is not letting go his firing, and

513
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, being out and now being independent or whatever

514
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: has not changed the way he views the world one inch.

515
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: Because so clearly the area that I think would be

516
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: more difficult for Elan to respond to is you claim

517
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: to be this avatar of free speech, but you're not.

518
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: I mean even his view and we've discussed this on

519
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: the show before that he articulates of like, I follow

520
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: the law. Well, okay, in this country where we have

521
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 1: a first Amendment, that may work out fine. And by

522
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: the way, he hasn't followed, you know, strictly just what

523
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: the law requires in this country when they get to

524
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: that at a moment, but when you think about a

525
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: repressive regime that doesn't have free speech, his policies is

526
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: still not a free speech commitment. But I will follow

527
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: the law, and so you have him.

528
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 3: You know.

529
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 1: For example, in India, Twitter censored this documentary that was

530
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: critical of Mody. They took that down. This is something

531
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: that the interceptor Ryan Grim reported on.

532
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 4: So if it is a and.

533
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: Jack Dorsey brought this up as well when we spoke

534
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: with him, that actually they were much more willing under

535
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: Jack rebuff repressive countries that were demanding censorship in that

536
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: may be consistent with their own repressive laws in their

537
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: country than Elon has been. So a commitment to I

538
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: will strictly follow the law no matter what the law

539
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: says is not actually a free speech commitment. So that's

540
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: number one. Number two. You know, I just mentioned the

541
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: Modi thing. We also have had the example right now

542
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: post October seventh of Elon saying that he's going to

543
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: ban the terms from the river to the sea and

544
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: decolonization with regards to Israel and Palestine. How is that

545
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: a commitment to free speech? So those are the areas

546
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: where I would like to see him respond. I would

547
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: like to see him attempt to answer, because there's a

548
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: significant distance between how he has held himself out and

549
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: the way he has actually run this platform. But because

550
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: Don has such CNN brain, the problem has to be

551
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: on the other side that he's not censoring enough, he's

552
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 1: not being censorious enough, he's not doing enough quote unquote

553
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,719
Speaker 1: modern and so you end up with this, you know,

554
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: sort of crazy making quote unquote debate, and then the

555
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: other pieces you point out Sager is Elon is also

556
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: saying something here that is I would say, also inconsistent

557
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: with free speech. That he's like, well, yeah, technically we

558
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: leave the stuff up on the platform, but we basically

559
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: bury it so no one can see it. And Don

560
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 1: can't really wrap his head around what he's talking about.

561
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm talking here about shadow banning. He's talking

562
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: about using the algorithm to suppress this type of content

563
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: so absolutely no one can see it. And that's another

564
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: area that would be interesting to dig into. But it

565
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: seems to me like he's not really even grasping what

566
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: Elon is saying. I mean, in fairness, Elon doesn't want

567
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: to use terms like shadow band because that sounds bad,

568
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: So he's not being really straightforward about what he's trying

569
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: to articulate. He's like a little cagey about it, but

570
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: that's clearly what he's laying out, and I think that

571
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: that is worth exploration as well.

572
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 4: But that none of that happens.

573
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a moment that we didn't include in this

574
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: clobe because it was already very long. But where Don

575
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: gets in this fight with it, Well, mainstream media would

576
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: never post this type of hateful content. He's still standing

577
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: for CNN even after all of this. So anyway, there

578
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: you go, there's been no evolution.

579
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 2: I guess is that the accident that immediately after he's fired,

580
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 2: the first place he goes.

581
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 4: Back to is CNN.

582
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly kind of you know, he can't teach

583
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 2: an old dog new tricks. His overall mindset is just

584
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 2: completely devoid of any like grasp of the first men,

585
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 2: which is genuinely concerning for somebody who's allegedly been in

586
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 2: broadcasts for like what twenty something a year, maybe thirty

587
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 2: years now, yeah, at this point, and who made his

588
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: whole career.

589
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 3: And then you know, it's also so it's it's.

590
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 2: Very counter because the moment then he that Elon fires

591
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: him or doesn't sign his contract or whatever, he's like, well,

592
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: I thought you believed in free speech.

593
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 3: I'm like, dude, you don't believe in free speech? So

594
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:51,239
Speaker 3: which one is it?

595
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 10: Bro?

596
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: Like, what are we actually doing here?

597
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: And then you know, I just find it so egregious

598
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: every time they do this, as Zuckerberg, they did it

599
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: to Jack, now they're doing to any of these people

600
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: they find like the worst content, Like why isness still

601
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: up there? It's like, guys, they're not defending the content.

602
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: It's about the principle. I mean, for example, I'll talk

603
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 2: to the third rail. I don't think Kanye should have

604
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: been banned for tweeting a SAP swastika. Swatska's a hateful symbol.

605
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 2: I abhor it, that said, well, and he even posted

606
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 2: it genuinely in a pro Nazi way.

607
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 3: Not illegal.

608
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 2: Sorry, he should be allowed to do it. And guess

609
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: what he suffered private consequences. It's not like it worked

610
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: out for him all that. Well, you don't need to

611
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: take it down for no reason. I'll give another one.

612
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: He'd banned the elon jet account for no reason except

613
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: for the fact that he alleged that it was doxing.

614
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: It's bullshit. It's completely wrong. It's like, sorry, yeah, I

615
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 2: get it's probably annoying. That said, you can do it

616
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: for any celebrity, including Taylor Swift or any of these

617
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: other folks. So sorry, that's I guess the price that

618
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: it is to be like ultra wealthy. Good for you.

619
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: You can afford, you can afford like hyper around the

620
00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: clock security. So that's just what comes with the territory.

621
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: He still always like reaches for it in a shadow

622
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: banning Sense and others. I still believe that the greatest

623
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: golden age of the Internet was like twenty eleven or so,

624
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 2: right when Twitter was still calling themselves a free speech

625
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 2: swing of the free speech Party. Everything let fly, everything

626
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 2: was equal in an algorithm, And yeah, it led to

627
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 2: some uncomfortable things, but you know, that's part of what

628
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: it means to live in a free in an open society.

629
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 2: And that's when the Internet was a tool of dissonance

630
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: and it was a tool of people being able to

631
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: speak out. And unfortunately what we've seen is instead like

632
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 2: a mainstream capture of the Internet. As part of why

633
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court case and this Don Lemon thing really

634
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: go together is because that elite mindset about the ability

635
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 2: to police what and how and the rules around these

636
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: things is their most treasured power, especially as they continue

637
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: to lose it in the number of viewers.

638
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 3: That they have.

639
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's just a whole lack of confidence

640
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: in the sort of baseline concepts of you know, there's

641
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: supposed to be bedrock to America, including free speech and

642
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: including a commitment to democracy. They're so terrified of if

643
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: you actually allowed people to self govern what that would

644
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: look like and so you know, it's an anti democratic backlash,

645
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: and you see it with liberals, you see it with

646
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: conservatives when it comes to speech that they don't like

647
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: as well. It really is an elite led phenomenon. And

648
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: you know, none of that was really grappled with in

649
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: this particular debate. I guess I would say bottom line,

650
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: you know, it made me a little more sympathetic to

651
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: Elon pulling the plag afterwards, because he was just like, Wow,

652
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: that was bad and ridiculous, and I don't think that

653
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: I really want to lend my dollars. But it also

654
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: made me question the original like why did you think

655
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: that this was going to go well to start with?

656
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: What was it in the Don Lemon lexicon? A body

657
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: of work that you thought was really worth like supporting

658
00:31:58,800 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: and lifting up.

659
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 4: So I guess that's what.

660
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: That's my counter is. I'm like, dude, why did you

661
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: think that he had changed at all? Like anyone could

662
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: have told you that anybody who's ever worked with Don Lemon,

663
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: read any of his stories about Don Lemon, had watched.

664
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: Him in that thing.

665
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: He's an ego maniac who is dedicated to a very

666
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 2: specific worldview. And when you hired him. There was no

667
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: evidence that he had changed whatsoever. So you know, if anything,

668
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: I don't have any particular sympathy for you on.

669
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 4: No, I mean I don't either. I don't either.

670
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: I say, listen, if if Don Lemon had started his

671
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: show and he was doing things that were interesting and

672
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: he learned something from his like, these things happen. You know,

673
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: when you get let go from a job, it could

674
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: be a like, you know, a real shake up moment

675
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: for you, and your perspective can change. It did for

676
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: me when I got fired from VISEMEBC. So I can

677
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: speak to that.

678
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 4: But clearly none of that has yet occurred.

679
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: So he'll continue to see this is pretty consequential news.

680
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: Let's go and put this up on the screen. So

681
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: Donald Trump in a new court filing his team saying

682
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: that he cannot secure a bond to cover that four

683
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty four million judgment. He was spurned, apparently

684
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: by thirty different companies as he saw that bond.

685
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:12,959
Speaker 4: Let me read you a little bit of this.

686
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: They disclosed on Monday it failed to secure roughly half

687
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: billion dollar bond in that civil fraud case in New York,

688
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: raising the prospect that the state could seek to freeze

689
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: some of his bank accounts and seize some of his

690
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: marquee properties. That is now seriously on the table. The

691
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: court filing, coming one week before the bond is do

692
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: suggest the former president might soon face a financial crisis

693
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: unless an appeals court comes to his rescue. He is

694
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: asking the appeals to court to pause that four hundred

695
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: and fifty four million dollar judgment. Again, remember this is

696
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: from the civil fraud case about him inflating asset values

697
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: to secure loans and things of that nature. Otherwise, the

698
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: New York Attorney General's office, which brought the case, might

699
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: soon move to collect from mister Trump. They go on

700
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: to say, although the former president both of his billions,

701
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 1: his net worth is derived largely from the value of

702
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: his real estate, which bond companies rarely accept as collateral. Apparently,

703
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: he has more than three hundred and fifty million in cash,

704
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: which is a lot of money, but it is short

705
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 1: of the nearly half a billion dollars that he would

706
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: need in order to secure this bond. Still, even if

707
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: the higher court rejects his appeal, he's not entirely out

708
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: of options. He might appeal to the state's highest court

709
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: quickly sell an asset or seek help from a wealthy supporter.

710
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: So he was saga able to secure a nearly one

711
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 1: hundred million dollar bond with regard to the Egene Carol case.

712
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: But there are two problems here. I mean, number one,

713
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 1: these insurance companies just normally don't do bonds of this

714
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: size half a billion dollars. And number two, as they

715
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: point out, you know, since most of his collateral would

716
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: be in real estate, they usually don't use that as collateral.

717
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: And so none of these companies, the thirty that they

718
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: reportedly went to, were willing to take it. The Letitia James,

719
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: the Attorney General who was you know, pushing this case.

720
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: She has not commented yet about what she is going

721
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: to do. But you know, this is this is real.

722
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: This is we're at the point now where she could

723
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: actually you know, put leans on his accounts, where she

724
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: could see some of his iconic properties in New York

725
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: in order to obtain this amount of money while this

726
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: appeals process plays out. So it is truly a wild

727
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: scenario here.

728
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, what they said is that he has not ruled

729
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 2: out his corporate entities declaring bankruptcy, which would halt that judgment.

730
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 2: But apparently in the nineteen nineties, Trump did go bankrupt, right,

731
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 2: He's very weary of that entire experience.

732
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean, you can see, his whole political

733
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: brand is the billionaire, you know, wealthy, successful, always wins,

734
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: et cetera. So having to declare bankruptcy doesn't really jive

735
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: with that image that he has created over decades.

736
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 2: The other question is is I mean, he's probably just

737
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 2: gonna have to sell something. He's gonna have to do

738
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 2: a fire sale, or you know, he's going to have

739
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 2: to come up with some way in order to meet

740
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 2: this just because it's such a colossal amount of money,

741
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 2: or to take out some incredibly onerous, high interest loan.

742
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 2: But this is the reason we're covering everyone, is because

743
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 2: this is personally a major, major threat. It also leads

744
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 2: to the possibility that he would have to be able

745
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 2: to tap campaign cash or raise some sort of fund

746
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: from supporters and others in order to help bail him

747
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 2: out of something like this. But even then, I mean

748
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: a colossal half a billion dollar bond.

749
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 3: I mean, that's more.

750
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 2: Than I think Bill Clinton spent in the entire nineteen

751
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 2: ninety two campaign, let alone for the billion or so

752
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 2: that the Trump campaign and the associated people are going

753
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: to have to drop in the general election that's going

754
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: on right now.

755
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 3: So this is a serious problem for him.

756
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are definitely legal limits on how much

757
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: you know, political cash can be used. I don't believe

758
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 1: it can be used at all to pay this you know,

759
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty four million dollar judgment. But he

760
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: just did that big R and C shake up, cleaned house,

761
00:36:58,320 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: making sure he's got you know.

762
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 4: Full of loyalists.

763
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: There a lot of fundraising consultants, I think, to make

764
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: sure that they are able to pay whatever legal bills

765
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: they are legally allowed to pay. And then we've also

766
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: seen the way that the party apparatus has been used

767
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: to funnel cash through his businesses, you know, the whole

768
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: events at his hotel, et cetera, et cetera. So I

769
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: do think part of that house cleaning at the RNC

770
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: is to make sure that in whatever ways they can

771
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: possibly you know, color the law to help bolster his

772
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: personal finances, they will be in position to do that.

773
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: But it is an extraordinary moment. I mean, we'll have

774
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: to see what direction the court takes. We'll have to

775
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: see how aggressive Letitia James is in terms of going

776
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: ahead and fire sailing assets, you know, seizing assets, putting

777
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,280
Speaker 1: leans on his accounts. But there's no doubt that, listen,

778
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: he's a very wealthy man. Half a billion dollars that

779
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: was still a lot of money for literally anyone on

780
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: the planet, anyone.

781
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 3: Multi billionaires don't have access that much.

782
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 4: We've got a half billion dollars just sitting around in cash, I.

783
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: Mean literally about no one, right, maybe some like drug

784
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: lord or something like that.

785
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 4: It has to keep it in cash.

786
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 1: But so this is this is I know there's been

787
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: a lot of in the past. You know, liberal is

788
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: always not as rich as he says, etcetera. As that

789
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: which it probably isn't as rich as he says. But

790
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 1: he is a very wealthy man. This is enough money

791
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 1: that is a genuine threat to his personal cash financial position.

792
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 1: There were some other news that I can't even believe

793
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: that this name has resurfaced, but put this up on

794
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 1: the screen. Apparently Trump may enlist ready for this. Paul

795
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: manifort back into his campaign. But in the way the

796
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 1: watch the post frames this is, you know, just gives

797
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: me like PTSD. He was criticized for Russia ties. Former

798
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,240
Speaker 1: campaign manager was pardoned by Trump for bank and tax

799
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: fraud convictions and accusations he had hid millions that he

800
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: made consulting for pro Russian Ukrainian politicians, including Yanikovich. You'll

801
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: recall that whole Constantine Kolimnik situation to bring up some

802
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 1: more blast from the past in terms of the Russia

803
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: Gate narrative. You know, Manifort passed some polling to Kolimnik,

804
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: who was tied in with Russian intelligence, and he legitimately,

805
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: I think this part of the case against Manifort was legitimate.

806
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: He made millions, he hit it in these offshore bank

807
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: accounts so we wouldn't have to pay taxes on it.

808
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: Led this incredibly luxurious lifestyle that he really didn't have

809
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: the cash to completely afford, especially not if he was

810
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: actually paying taxes.

811
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 4: So that was what ended up bringing him down.

812
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: But Sager, apparently Trump wants to bring him in particular,

813
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: they say with regard to organizing the RNC.

814
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 2: So what he did last time, Yeah, oh, that's true.

815
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 4: That is what he did last time.

816
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: He's a long time figure in Republican politics, going back

817
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: to I mean, who was his first that he worked.

818
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: For, Richard Nixon, so yeah, Paul Manifort and Stone, Roger Stone.

819
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 3: That's right, geez, that's they.

820
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: They had their own firm, and then Roger eventually went

821
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 2: his own way. Maniffort kind of made his big name

822
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: in washing, made tens of millions of dollars, representing like

823
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 2: any regime in the world that wanted to hire him.

824
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 2: This is always what annoyed me to They're calling me

825
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 2: a Russian stooge, and like he's not a Russian stoo

826
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: Jesus is a paid stood. She's like it was like, oh,

827
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: have a grifter, oh o Bajan cool.

828
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 3: You know, any regime.

829
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: Out there, no matter who you are, whatever you're doing,

830
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: what you're.

831
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 3: Asking for, he would rep you. He would take your money.

832
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 2: He didn't file for Farah, which is what the Mueller

833
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 2: team got him.

834
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 3: Onto Foreign Agent Registration Act. Here's the thing.

835
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 2: I mean, every lobbyist in town who's lobbying for these

836
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: governments is.

837
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 4: Well, I got him on taxing bank fraud.

838
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: That far was was actually I mean he was stashing

839
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: his money overseas and the's like Caribbean bank accounts and

840
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: whatever to avoid paying taxes.

841
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 3: Not defending the man.

842
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: He is a very typical DC character, I guess is

843
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: what I would say. He is far from the only

844
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: one who will take whatever skeezee client from a you know, horrific, repressive,

845
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: corrupt regime or whatever. Whoever has cash to pay there

846
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 1: will to get in bed with.

847
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 4: That's who Paul Maniford is.

848
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: Trump apparently likes the fact that he you know, that

849
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: he did time on his behalf and he stayed loyal.

850
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: He wrote some book about you know, the Dutch state

851
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: and how he's relically persecuted, et cetera, et cetera, And

852
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: so Trump wants to get him back in the fold

853
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: because he appreciated that loyalty. It's not a done deal yet,

854
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: but at least according to this report, Trump is very

855
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 1: inclined towards this because he appreciates the way Paul stood.

856
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 4: Tall for him.

857
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 3: He didn't take its plea deal right. Who is his dad?

858
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: Forget his deep This is the thing. I've blacked all

859
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 2: this moment stuff out of there because it was so useful.

860
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 4: Paul Maniford even existed to be al Anatolia.

861
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 3: Look Manafford, He's not.

862
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 2: A terrible political operative serial old school. He almost certainly

863
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: would do a fine job at the R and C.

864
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: He was pardoned right by Trump, so it'd be one

865
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 2: of that. He's not technically a fellon I guess, or.

866
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 3: Maybe he was, I'm not maybe he was commuted or something.

867
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 3: I'm not one hundred percent sure.

868
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 2: But my point is is just that look for the

869
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 2: job that they're asking him to do, he'd probably be fine.

870
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 2: He did a fine enough job last time around. The

871
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 2: Muller investigation never found any you know, trying to influence

872
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: the RNC or any of these other shenanigans that were

873
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 2: going on.

874
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 3: So whatever, who cares.

875
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 2: He probably is more competent than some of the other

876
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 2: idiots that Trump has around him from time to time.

877
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 2: The other thing we wanted to highlight around Trump is

878
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 2: that he is pressing hard for a debate with Joe Biden.

879
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 2: He made it a truth social post about this yesterday,

880
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 2: also raise it in a recent Fox News interview. Let's

881
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: take a listen to what he had to say.

882
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 11: And you want to debate Joe Biden an take him

883
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 11: any place an I'll leave in debate him on your show. Well,

884
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 11: I'll be happy to ho I'll do it anytime, any place.

885
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 3: But any time any plays Crystal.

886
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, though, Biden seems to be pressing back a little

887
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: bit against this, if we could put this up there.

888
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: He recently was asked about it and said, quote, I

889
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: don't know if he's serious. I don't know if he's

890
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 2: serious when he's asked whether he was going to debate

891
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 2: Trump ahead of the twenty twenty four election. The reason

892
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 2: that's noteworthy to me, Crystal, is that that is not

893
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 2: about will you debate him?

894
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 8: Now?

895
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,439
Speaker 2: That's if you will debate him ever, and I mean increasingly,

896
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: I don't know. Increasingly, it does look likely that Biden

897
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 2: may back out. That said, because Trump has committed to

898
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: any time, any place, he even said he would participate

899
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: in a DNC debate anything that's either with the Commission

900
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 2: on Presidential Debates or elsewhere, it does seem like the

901
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: onus is on Biden to then try and work within

902
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 2: that framework.

903
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 3: I'm curious.

904
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 2: I mean, if I were him, I also wouldn't want

905
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 2: a debate, right, you know, you don't necessarily want that

906
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 2: on display for everybody.

907
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if he could do an even serviceable job,

908
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: he should do it.

909
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, because as we saw with I mean from

910
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 4: a democracy standpoint.

911
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: Obviously he should do it. Okay, let's just talk about

912
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: political tactics. If we saw with the State of the Union,

913
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: how low the bar is for Joe Biden for the

914
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: media to declare him a victor. I mean, if he

915
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 1: can come out in a debate against Trump and even

916
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: do okay, then I think this would benefit him tremendously

917
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: because this is the big questionesson that people have in

918
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: their minds. It is certainly one of the biggest questions

919
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 1: people have in their minds about Joe Biden.

920
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 4: Just is he up to the desk.

921
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: So if you get him on the you know, whatever

922
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: the right drug cocktail is that they've put him on

923
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,439
Speaker 1: before that worked out for the Stay of the Union,

924
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: worked out for him several years ago, and that debate

925
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: against Bernie Sanders. If they could have a confidence that

926
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,839
Speaker 1: he could even perform adequately, adequately, then I think this

927
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: would be a win for him, because, you know, the

928
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: expectations for Trump are high. He is seen as a performer.

929
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: He's seen as, you know, this sort of political animal

930
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: who can get up in front of a crowd and

931
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: really do his thing. His debates against Hillary Clinton and

932
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 1: the Republican GOP cast of characters back in twenty sixteen

933
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: are still legendary. That's still the expectation people have for him.

934
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: The expectations for Joe Biden are literally on the floor, So.

935
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 4: You know that's but that's the question.

936
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: Does his staff even think that he can perform he

937
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,919
Speaker 1: can meet those incredibly, incredibly low expectations. And I think

938
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 1: that's probably what being is debated behind the scenes right now.

939
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 2: So obviously, I mean, I think a position is clear. Democratically,

940
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 2: they should all debate. In fact, they should have way

941
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 2: more than three debates. The current CPD structure is completely stupid.

942
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: There were many times in the past we had a

943
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: lot more debates, or we could have one big debate

944
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 2: and it could be several hours long. There's no reason

945
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 2: that foreign policy should be the last, like the ugly

946
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: stepchild debate.

947
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 4: They're always actually right now.

948
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 2: The economy debate the foreign policy but it's like, well,

949
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 2: hold on, who asked for that? Also, the current format

950
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 2: is totally rigged by the CPD and all that. I've

951
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: done some monologues on this. The town hall format as well,

952
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 2: which I do like, but as long as it needs

953
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 2: to be more raucous, it needs to be less pre screened.

954
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: So there are a lot of ways that we could

955
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 2: get to that. But if I were the Biden team,

956
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 2: and I'm talking purely selfishly, even though I do believe

957
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 2: that he should debate, I probably wouldn't do it because

958
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: the vast majority of evidence that we have says that

959
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: the debates don't matter at all whenever it comes to

960
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 2: the polls, unless there is an insane moment, and even

961
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 2: then it has to have been in.

962
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 3: The media monoculture era.

963
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 2: These days, most people know who they're voting for. They

964
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 2: may or they make up their minds close to election day,

965
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: and their minds are not swayed by a debate clip.

966
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,959
Speaker 3: It's usually like, hey, what's the price of gas today?

967
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: Are like, oh, well, yeah, I guess my bank account

968
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 2: is doing when people vote for all kinds of reasons,

969
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 2: my only point being that there's enough political science debate

970
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 2: that if you think that the risk is high enough

971
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 2: of him having a complete brain short, I wouldn't do

972
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 2: it if I were him, which is tragic because I

973
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 2: think that's probably where he'll end up.

974
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I need more information about what his actual

975
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: condition is fair enough to make that judgment, because I

976
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: agree with you. Typically debates don't matter, even though our

977
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: perception is that they do, and they can temporarily have

978
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: an impact in the polls, but by and large, geopolitical

979
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: science says they don't have a huge impact. I think

980
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: if they were ever going to matter, though, it would

981
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: be right now. And that's because that question of his

982
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: age and his capabilities is so central to people's concerns.

983
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: So if he was able to turn in a you know,

984
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: like I said, an adequate I don't even want to

985
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 1: go to the level of solid right, an adequate, non

986
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: embarrassed saying no, remember that time, as I like exploded

987
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: on stage, Like, nothing like that can happen.

988
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 4: Right, Okay?

989
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: If he remember the first debate he had with Trump

990
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 1: last time around, he actually won, not because he did

991
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: such a great job, but because Trump was so fricking obnoxious.

992
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: If you could guarantee you could turn in that level

993
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 1: of performance again, I think it would be well worth it,

994
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: and I think it could actually have a lasting impact,

995
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: because you know, the one off of him doing all

996
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 1: right at the State of the Union reading from a

997
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: teleprompter that is going to fade. People need more proof

998
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: of life from him before they're going to be comfortable

999
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: showing up again and handing him another four years. So

1000
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: for that reason, I do think it could potentially be

1001
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 1: more consequential than debates typically are. So listen, Obviously I'm

1002
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: cheering for them to get in the ring, and I

1003
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: do want to reflect on the fact that already we

1004
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: have sort of accepted and normalized the idea that these

1005
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: people don't have Even people seeking the highest office in

1006
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: the land don't have to debate. Joe Biden didn't debate

1007
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: his primary opponents. Donald Trump didn't debate his primary opponents.

1008
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: So it's not like Trump would be able to use

1009
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: against Joe Biden like, oh, you won't even debate, you

1010
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 1: don't want a debate. I mean, I'm sure people tried

1011
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: to do that, but you can turn right around, Okay,

1012
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: well you wouldn't debate Nikki Haley, you wouldn't debate Ron DeSantis.

1013
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: So we've sort of already broken that norm of expecting

1014
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: these people to have to subject themselves to that process.

1015
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 4: I think that's a tremendous loss for the country.

1016
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 3: I genuinely do totally agree. I mean, think about this.

1017
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 2: The last time that the two of these men debated

1018
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 2: was the twenty twenty election back during COVID Right it's

1019
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: the last time that we saw either of these men

1020
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: who want to represent us for another four years that

1021
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 2: were on the stage, and the likelihood that we will

1022
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 2: see them again on the stage appears to be less

1023
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: and less, which is genuinely.

1024
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 3: Look, here's the other reason.

1025
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,479
Speaker 2: Why debates matter, because sometimes when they become president, you're like, hey,

1026
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 2: during the debate, you set that out to do this,

1027
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: and then you didn't do it, So why did you

1028
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 2: change your mind?

1029
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:56,399
Speaker 3: That happened. That happens a lot.

1030
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 2: That's why getting people on the record is so important,

1031
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 2: not for media purposes, for your purposes.

1032
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 3: The league can actually hold people accountable.

1033
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of reasons why this is really

1034
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: really bad, but unfortunately does look like that's where things

1035
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 2: are headed.

1036
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, we are expected to get an RFK junior

1037
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: vice presidential announcement next.

1038
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 4: Week's right next Tuesday.

1039
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 1: And there was a leak some potentially accurate, I don't

1040
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,919
Speaker 1: know reporting from media. They seem to have an inn

1041
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 1: in the RFK Junior campaign.

1042
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 4: Mediaite.

1043
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll see, Yeah, we'll see just plans cans out

1044
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 2: some of this, we'll talk, Okay.

1045
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: So here's who they are saying is going to be

1046
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:39,280
Speaker 1: rfk's pick, woman named Nicole Shanahan, who they describe as

1047
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: a California based attorney and entrepreneur once married to Google

1048
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: co founder Sergey Brinn. That is who Mediaite is claiming

1049
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: that RFK Junior is going to pick. Shanahan has apparently

1050
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: already been involved with the campaign, at least from an

1051
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: arms length distance. She was the one who funded and

1052
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: put together that That's Kennedy super Bowl commercial that we

1053
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: showed you that was like heavy on the Kennedian nostalgia

1054
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: that we both thought was very effective.

1055
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 4: And very smart.

1056
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: And so she obviously, having divorced Sergey Brin, has a

1057
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: good amount of money to lend to the effort, and

1058
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: according to their source at Mediaite, that is a key

1059
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: part of.

1060
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 4: His interest in her.

1061
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,919
Speaker 1: They said, quote, she might be infusing millions of dollars

1062
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 1: in the campaign to help fund the ballot initiative. That's

1063
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,399
Speaker 1: the effort to get his name on the ballots, which

1064
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: makes her attractive financially. However, this source and I guess

1065
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: this is why they're leaking it to Mediaite, lacks. They

1066
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: say she lacks the qualifications to actually do the job.

1067
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: They also say that she aligns with him on numerous issues.

1068
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: The campaign is also looking for a canon and who

1069
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: can help finance the ballot access initiative that will be

1070
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,760
Speaker 1: crucial if Kennedy stands a chance of competing in the election.

1071
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 4: So, to be.

1072
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: Honest with you, this is the first I'd heard of her.

1073
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: Apparently there was some dust up with the Wall Street

1074
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: Journal where they had reported that while she was separated

1075
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 1: from Sir Gaybrin but still married to him not yet divorced,

1076
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 1: that she and Elon Musk had an affair. Musk vociferously

1077
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: denied this. It was also reported this was like, you know,

1078
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: real rupturous one could understand, and his relationship with Sir Gaybriyn.

1079
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 4: So there was that whole situation.

1080
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: Everyone involved, I think, basically denies this happen, but the

1081
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal stands by it.

1082
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 4: So make of that what you love, Listen.

1083
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 3: I have no idea.

1084
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 2: Yes, when I heard he know, boy scout himself, mister Bryann,

1085
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 2: I'll just leave it at that. But from what we understand,

1086
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 2: at least with some of the reporting, the only reason

1087
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 2: I knew who she was is because she was married

1088
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 2: to Sarah gay Brand, but also because I knew that

1089
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 2: she had donated quite a bit of money to the

1090
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 2: RFK Junior super Pac previously. Yeah, which does raise some

1091
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 2: questions here about pay to play. If she does get

1092
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 2: the eventual tap for vice president, don't forget this is

1093
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 2: not one hundred percent done. RFK Junior was asked about

1094
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 2: this last night on Chris by Chris Kuoma.

1095
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 3: He said he was considering her.

1096
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 2: He was, yeah, he did not say that he you know,

1097
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 2: she was officially the picker any of that. We still

1098
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 2: have Aaron Rodgers who was in the running, Mike Rowe,

1099
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 2: some of these other individuals, Tulsi Gabbard as well, Andrew Yang.

1100
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 2: Apparently these are all people that the domain names at

1101
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 2: least for all these people had been registered. They've been approached.

1102
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 2: We don't know, you know who is in the running

1103
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: or not. Tulsi was asked I would know about running

1104
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 2: as Trump's vice president. She did seem to answer affirmatively

1105
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 2: as if she would be willing to do something like that.

1106
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 2: Let's put this up there on the screen. In terms

1107
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: of the reporting, this is from a guy I really trust,

1108
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 2: Teddy Schleipper. We've had him on the show previously. He

1109
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 2: does a really good job covering Silicon Valley specifically, and

1110
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 2: he says, forget Aaron Rodgers, what if the next vice

1111
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 2: president is Nicole Shanahan. There's a lot of buzz in

1112
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 2: the RFK Junior circle that Shanahan, who's that philanthropist in

1113
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 2: the native of Oakland where Kennedy VP is soon to

1114
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 2: take place, could be the choice. Of course, nor decision

1115
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 2: is final. This is from the RFK Junior campaign itself.

1116
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 2: They say, oh boy, this media. They were sure that

1117
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 2: about Aaron, Now they're sure about Nicole. Tomorrow they'll be

1118
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 2: sure about somebody else. The truth is they're just going

1119
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 2: to have to wait until we all get to celebrate

1120
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 2: Bobby's brilliant running met together in ten days. Well, I

1121
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 2: can't share a name. I will say I could not

1122
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 2: be more thrilled with this decision. He ran a thorough

1123
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 2: process and he's chosen a vice president who is truly

1124
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,839
Speaker 2: worthy of the American people. So I guess that will

1125
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 2: be the big the big question Crystal as to who

1126
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 2: exactly he does pick. I am not as sure maybe

1127
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,240
Speaker 2: as she is, that the pick is actually certain, because

1128
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,280
Speaker 2: this is what people do all the time. They float

1129
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 2: them and then see what the reception is. Yeah, Aaron Rodgers.

1130
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 2: Maybe how the sports world freak, you know, how can

1131
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 2: he handle the attention? What about Mike row Mike Rowe

1132
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 2: seems to have micro you know, posted positively about it.

1133
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 3: What about Jesse Ventura? Ryan and I talked about that.

1134
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 3: I actually think just would be a cool pick. I

1135
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 3: like Jesse. Jesse. He's a while man. That's why I

1136
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 3: love him. Listen, we control that, man.

1137
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 4: Let me tell you he's going to do.

1138
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 3: What is going for it. Let's go for it. Okay,

1139
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 3: Let's not pick some Google arress or whatever.

1140
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,720
Speaker 2: Let's pick somebody who's really gonna shake things up, because

1141
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 2: that's what he's claiming.

1142
00:53:58,160 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 3: So anyways, I have no idea.

1143
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 2: That said, though, the recent actions by the White House

1144
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 2: show that there's still not one hundred percent writing off

1145
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 2: the RFK Junior campaign. They are definitely still looking at

1146
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 2: him as a little bit of a threat.

1147
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let man get to that in one minute.

1148
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: I just want to say a couple more things about

1149
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: Nicole Shanahan. First of all, if it is her, it

1150
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: does say something about the way they're thinking about the

1151
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,800
Speaker 1: biggest challenges in the campaign. It reveals that having the

1152
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 1: money to get on the ballot is the number one.

1153
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 3: So then maybe it's a good strategy if you if.

1154
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: You were primarily concerned about electoral appeal. I mean, no

1155
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: offense to Nicole Shanner. This is the first I've heard

1156
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: of her. I have a zero opinion of her, positive, negative,

1157
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 1: or otherwise. Although it does say that she was a

1158
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 1: bundler for Pete bootaegidch so I do hold that against her.

1159
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: But and I'll tell you a little bit more about

1160
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: what we know about her politics in a minute. But

1161
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 1: you know, if you were really looking for an electoral pop,

1162
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: I think you would go for more of a celebrity

1163
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: household name Rogers to add to the Kennedy name. You know,

1164
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 1: I think that probably would make more sense elector I

1165
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: don't know necess I mean maybe people freaking love these

1166
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: you know athletics.

1167
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 2: I said last time, we should think it's just it's

1168
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 2: a headline. It's everybody in America.

1169
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 4: Everyone talk about it. You couldn't help but talk about it.

1170
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 8: This.

1171
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 1: You know, Nicole Shanahan, no one knows who she Very

1172
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: few people know who she is, So it doesn't really

1173
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 1: impact the ticket one way or another. I mean, and

1174
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 1: perhaps that is part of the calculus too, that RFK

1175
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 1: Junior wants to be the guy on the ticket. Right,

1176
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,320
Speaker 1: If you're r K Junior and Jesse Ventura, Jesse Ventura

1177
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,359
Speaker 1: is a gigantic personality.

1178
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 4: You are not going to outshine jesse Ventura.

1179
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: No, I don't care who you are in this great nation,

1180
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,800
Speaker 1: you are not going to outshine Jesse Ventura. So perhaps

1181
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: that's part of the calculus as well. Her politics up

1182
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: to this point, she's been very focused on, you know,

1183
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,359
Speaker 1: what would read as sort of traditionally liberal positions. She's

1184
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: been very focused on reproductive health and just as she

1185
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 1: talked in this interview that she gave to Teddy Schleie

1186
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: for a while ago, non connection to this RFK Junior chat,

1187
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: but she talked about how that was really important to her.

1188
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,320
Speaker 1: She talks a lot about the invite being very important

1189
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: to her. Of course, that has been you know, part

1190
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: of Bobby Kennedy's career as a lawyer as well. So

1191
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: you can see how they may they may be simpatico there.

1192
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 1: I haven't seen anything about like you know, vaccines or

1193
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: COVID or any of those pieces. There were more sort

1194
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: of traditional standard liberal positions that were at least identified

1195
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 1: in this interview which also meshes with the fact that

1196
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:29,240
Speaker 1: she was apparently behind Pete Bootage right the last time around.

1197
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's the little bit that we know about her.

1198
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: But yes, Soccer, you are correct that there is apparently

1199
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 1: this is a great display of pettiness, I think coming

1200
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: from the White House. So on Saint Patrick's Day they

1201
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 1: hosted at the White House with Joe Biden. Like the

1202
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 1: entire Kennedy clan minus RFK Junior.

1203
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 4: Let's go and put this up on the screen.

1204
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: Kennedy family sons RFK Junior poses with Biden at the

1205
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 1: White House. I mean, if you look at the picture,

1206
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: I don't think we have the picture. We should have

1207
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,320
Speaker 1: grabbed that. But if you look at the picture, there's

1208
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 1: dozens of Kennedy's there and very conspicuously absent RFK Junior.

1209
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:09,320
Speaker 1: In addition, Carrie Kennedy, one of mister Kennedy's sisters, posted

1210
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: that picture of the family on Twitter at the White

1211
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: House with mister Biden and said President Biden, you make

1212
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: the world better, little lie. Mister Biden responded to the

1213
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 1: post sager from one proud Irish family to another, it

1214
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: was good.

1215
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:25,439
Speaker 4: To have you all back at the White House.

1216
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: So definitely appointed job there at RFK Junior, and they've

1217
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: also enlisted Liz Smith and others to directly try to

1218
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: combat the third party efforts, not only from r K Junior,

1219
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 1: but Cornell West, Jill Stein and potentially others.

1220
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,439
Speaker 2: So yes, look, I think they're taking it seriously, which

1221
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 2: they need to. They should take it seriously. Well, and

1222
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 2: that's look, you maybe change my mind a little bit.

1223
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 3: One of the reasons why I.

1224
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: Said Aaron Rodgers because everybody knows Aaron Rodgers is super famous,

1225
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 2: and that would possibly lead to a groundswell of campaign donations,

1226
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 2: and then you can get on the ballot. The other ways,

1227
00:57:58,200 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 2: you pick a rich lady and she pays for your

1228
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: back access. Right, not a bad strategy. So if anything,

1229
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 2: let's just give people the option. Everything is about options,

1230
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 2: But putting your name on that ballot, if it's going

1231
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 2: to cost twenty five thirty fifty million dollars or something

1232
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 2: like that, it's probably just more efficient to pick somebody

1233
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,479
Speaker 2: who has that on tap, or who knows a bunch

1234
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 2: of other rich people who are bundlers. So it could

1235
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 2: be that that is the correct strategy, And especially if

1236
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 2: this is an inoffensive pick, you know, in some ways,

1237
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 2: you know, RFK Junior, just because he is such a

1238
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 2: lightning rod in so many ways. You pick somebody who's

1239
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 2: a blank slate and people don't know very much about.

1240
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 2: That's also not terrible. You know, Aaron himself, him and

1241
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 2: Bobby are very aligned on certain policies, just specifically whenever

1242
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 2: it comes to COVID that could lead to more of

1243
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 2: a valance on the campaign that he doesn't want. He

1244
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 2: wants it to just be blank, blank slate, such as

1245
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 2: you could project anything that you want on top of it,

1246
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 2: and that's probably his best bet to eat into any

1247
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 2: of the margins.

1248
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 3: Whenever it comes to the general election.

1249
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, we'll see. I mean, number one

1250
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 1: hurdle is getting on the ballot. So if this is

1251
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: going to help you achieve that aim, it probably is

1252
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: right goal. Again with all the caveats that we don't

1253
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: even really know if this Nicole Shanahan is going to

1254
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: be the pick or not. Although listen, in addition it

1255
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: to being in Oakland, which she is, size you whatever,

1256
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: she is from Oakland, they also did register Kennedy Shanahan,

1257
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 1: and you know that, but they also registered another of

1258
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 1: a number of different ones. So signs are pointing that

1259
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: she's at least in the running. That's confirmed by amyryalist

1260
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: Fox that she was certainly considered, although obviously they're not

1261
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 1: saying whether she is the pick yet or not. We

1262
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: will all wait and find out next week. Last Vcar,

1263
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: I just had to get this in because I love

1264
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: this article with the Saint Patrick's Day. Irish American tie

1265
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: in Al Jazeera did a great write up about how

1266
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 1: Ireland is disowning Joe Biden as one of their native sons.

1267
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 4: Put this up on the screen.

1268
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: Ireland, they say, has long been one of Palestine's foremost

1269
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: Western supporters. Country was the first EU member to endorse

1270
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 1: Palestine in state, and after October seven, Irish lawmakers were

1271
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: among the first in.

1272
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 4: The West to call for a ceasefire.

1273
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 1: The Irish public support is even more bust then they're politicians.

1274
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 1: About eighty percent of Irish people believe Israel is committing

1275
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: genocide in Gaza. Many have called for a boycott of

1276
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 1: a White House meeting that just occurred in light of

1277
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: this fear support, and Israeli minister recently told Palestinians to

1278
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: go to Ireland or the desert, and so the Irish

1279
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 1: public has largely turned on Joe Biden. In November, mural

1280
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: of Biden his ancestors hometown was spattered over with red

1281
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: paint along with the words genocide Joe. But they go

1282
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 1: on to interview also a bunch of Irish Americans who

1283
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 1: are similarly disgusted with the Israel, the unconditional support of

1284
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 1: Israel and the aiding and betting of what they and

1285
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: I see in icj says as plausibly a genocide, and

1286
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 1: so lots of great quotes here about just how disgusted

1287
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: they are with Joe Biden. You know, how seriously he

1288
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: takes his irishists, and how much he loves being part

1289
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: of this tribe.

1290
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 3: That's said Crystal.

1291
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 2: The Irish PM was here in Washington like yesterday, and

1292
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 2: I think talked to Biden at the grid Iron dinner.

1293
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 3: So I don't know, maybe it's not.

1294
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: He's sech some pretty pointed things though about Palestinian the civilians.

1295
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 2: His name Vard car something Leo Verodkar, I forget. I

1296
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 2: also they refer to him as something different like that.

1297
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 2: I'm not even gonna try and pronounce it starts with

1298
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 2: a T.

1299
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 10: Whatever.

1300
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 3: Sorry, Irish people, I'm married.

1301
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 2: I guess I should know this, but where anyway, as

1302
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 2: I understand it, he's still here, mister Verrod Carr was

1303
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 2: here in Washington. I know for sure at this very

1304
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 2: fancy party because there were images that came out of

1305
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:29,919
Speaker 2: him and Biden. But you are right that Biden takes

1306
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 2: his Irishness very very seriously, to the point where.

1307
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 3: He was like, didn't want to meet.

1308
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 2: He didn't want to what was it appear too obsequious

1309
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 2: to the royal family because of his Irish American heritage,

1310
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 2: which is a whole other thing that I won't get

1311
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 2: it too.

1312
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so apparently the Prime Minister made some very pointed

1313
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 1: comments about why the Irish have such historic empathy with

1314
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: the Palestinians, with Biden having to stand there.

1315
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 3: Oh, that makes sense, that did occur, Okay.

1316
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 2: At the same time, there has been a titanic development

1317
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 2: in the real estate market brought everybody that details previously

1318
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 2: of a lawsuit filed against the National Association of Realtors

1319
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 2: by a group of sellers who are saying that they're

1320
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 2: buying and selling commission prices were artificially high, thus seeking

1321
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 2: and taking money away from them. So let's go ahe

1322
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 2: and put this up there on the screen. As a

1323
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 2: result of that successful lawsuit, there has now been an

1324
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 2: agreement by the National Association of Realtors that will do

1325
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 2: away with the automatic six percent commission in which the

1326
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 2: buyer's agent splits the commission with the seller. So I

1327
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 2: know that this is a little bit complicated, but effectively

1328
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 2: what it boils down to is that the taking away

1329
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 2: of this automatic commission free structure commission structure which has

1330
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 2: been in place crystal for now the last thirty years,

1331
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 2: it will open up and reduce the amount of commission

1332
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 2: that both sellers and by buyers will sell overall. Currently,

1333
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 2: as I said, the national average of real estate commission

1334
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 2: is five point five to seven percent roughly six especially

1335
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 2: in a higher end market. It is now being projected

1336
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 2: that that will drop to some one to one point

1337
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 2: five percent, meaning that the sellers will be able to

1338
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 2: hold onto a significant chunk more of their money, and

1339
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 2: that the automatic nature in which the buyer's agent does

1340
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 2: not take a fee from the buyer and then splits

1341
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 2: the commission with the seller, takes away any potential conflict

1342
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 2: of interests where the buyer technically is working for the

1343
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 2: seller has a direct financial incentive to possibly work and

1344
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 2: to collude and to keep prices artificially high. This means

1345
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 2: that the lack of upfront fee gives consumers a lot

1346
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 2: more optionality. They could then opt into entering a negotiation

1347
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 2: with that buyer's agent in the beginning and be like, look, okay,

1348
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 2: we will pay you three percent fee, but I need

1349
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 2: a ton of concierge service. No, I'm actually only going

1350
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 2: to pay you ten grand. I'm just going to pay

1351
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 2: you cash upfront. So it's going to open up all

1352
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 2: kinds of interesting possibilities. And most importantly, this is a huge,

1353
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 2: huge blow to anybody who is in the real estate

1354
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 2: game right now and who has been frankly making a

1355
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 2: killing from what I really perceive here as like a

1356
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 2: cartel red seeking behavior.

1357
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 3: The more and more that I researched the entire thing so.

1358
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: The way it currently works, just to try to break

1359
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: this down, because to be honest with you, though I've

1360
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 1: purchased a home, I didn't really know the ins and

1361
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:15,120
Speaker 1: outs of how this all worked, which is partly by

1362
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 1: design that you don't even really understand the fee structures

1363
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 1: and what you're signing up for here. So the seller

1364
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 1: side pays both agents both the agent representing the seller

1365
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 1: and the agent representing the buyer. Right, Okay, if you

1366
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 1: are the buyer's agent, you know from the MLS listings,

1367
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,440
Speaker 1: what the commission is going to be on each of

1368
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: the houses that you're showing. Your client doesn't know that.

1369
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: So you have an incentive to show and prioritize and

1370
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 1: hype for your client the listings that are going to

1371
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 1: secure the highest commission for you, not necessarily the listings

1372
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 1: that are most ideal for your client. Now, of course

1373
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 1: they would claim, and I'm sure there's just through many

1374
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:02,479
Speaker 1: cases that listen. If you don't do a good job

1375
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 1: and you don't sell any house, then you don't get

1376
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 1: any commission. And so you have every incentive to, you know,

1377
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 1: actually show the listings that will be most specifically you know, tailor.

1378
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 4: Made for your client.

1379
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 1: But you do have this, you know, financial incentive to

1380
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 1: show the ones with the highest commissions, which again your

1381
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: client has no access to and no way of really

1382
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 1: knowing in advance what the commission.

1383
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 4: Is going to be in any given house.

1384
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: In addition, because of the way this market works right now,

1385
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 1: and we should say this works this way in the US,

1386
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 1: it doesn't work this way most of the world because

1387
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 1: of the way this works and the feebing paid in

1388
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: fronted all on the seller's side that has also that

1389
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: basically gets put into the price of the house, and

1390
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 1: so it artificially elevates house prices by a certain amount

1391
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 1: as well. So one of the expectations here is that

1392
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: this change in the fee structure and making this all

1393
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 1: transparent is going to potentially lower the actual listing prices

1394
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 1: of houses overall. Not that I'd expect like a huge shift,

1395
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 1: but this could be reflected in housing prices. Now, if

1396
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 1: you are the seller of a home, this is going

1397
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 1: to impact you because you're no longer on the hook

1398
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 1: for both sides of the transaction. If you are a buyer,

1399
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 1: now ultimately you were going to be paying this in

1400
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 1: terms of a higher housing price instead of paying it

1401
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 1: through your mortgage. Your higher housing price, you're now likely

1402
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 1: to have to pay something upfront. So I do think

1403
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 1: for a lot of buyers they will experience this as

1404
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 1: inferior because now you're gonna have to pony up some

1405
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 1: cash to your agent upfront, and you know, previously you

1406
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 1: were able to this was reflected in your mortgage, So

1407
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 1: this is rolled into you know, your expectation of everything

1408
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: in your agreement with the bank, et cetera. Now you

1409
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 1: may actually need to have that cash upfront, which eats

1410
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 1: into what you can pay in terms of down payment.

1411
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: So I don't want to say that this is, like

1412
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, all around, going to be perceived as advantageous

1413
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 1: for everyone, even though I agree when this shakes out

1414
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: in the long term, I do think it is going

1415
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 1: to lead to lower costs being paid by both the

1416
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,640
Speaker 1: buyer and the seller, a much more transparent market, and

1417
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 1: incentives being much more aligned between the agents themselves and

1418
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 1: the clients they're representing.

1419
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then to address that, because I think it's

1420
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 2: a fair concern, we can put this Axios piece up

1421
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 2: on the screen. The reason I love this is because

1422
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 2: it's just all about options now whenever you're buying and

1423
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 2: you're selling. So, for example, as you just said, how

1424
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 2: will the buyers get paid? There's multiple possibilities. You can

1425
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 2: have a flat fee out of the buyer's pocket, so

1426
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 2: if you have the cash, great, you can just pay

1427
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 2: a simple fee, or the buyer will agree to pay

1428
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 2: then a percentage of that sale price to the broker,

1429
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 2: or even pay possibly an hourly rate, even better, maybe

1430
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 2: skip having.

1431
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 3: A broker at all.

1432
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 2: And then third, the realayes state industry is saying that

1433
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 2: a seller can still cover the buyer's agent fee, it

1434
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 2: will just have to be negotiated in the deal process.

1435
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:00,240
Speaker 3: So let's say you.

1436
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 2: Want to roll this solid into your mortgage and you

1437
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 2: want to make it a part of this consolidation.

1438
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 3: Fine, that's within your purview.

1439
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:08,919
Speaker 2: This means then that you have to be a little

1440
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 2: bit more educated, but you have a lot more financial options.

1441
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 3: And you know, I'm not going to look right now.

1442
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 2: The average sale price in this country four hundred and

1443
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 2: seventeen thousand dollars. This is according to the FED. Six

1444
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 2: percent of that is twenty five grand. That's a lot

1445
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 2: of money. That's a third of the average salary in

1446
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 2: an entire year. Sure, when you tast spread it out

1447
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 2: across a mortgage, you know, you may not notice it

1448
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 2: as much.

1449
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 3: But let's not ignore this, Okay.

1450
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 2: That's how people in real estate have been making a

1451
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 2: ton of money just flipping you know, buys and sells

1452
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 2: and representing that. So this makes it so that especially

1453
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 2: lower quality realtors, they're they're done. Because what it means

1454
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 2: is that when you drop that average price to one

1455
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 2: to one point five all of the chaff that is

1456
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,759
Speaker 2: currently amongst the one point five million people in this country,

1457
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 2: you have a real estate license. The vast majority of

1458
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:00,000
Speaker 2: there's people very rarely make a sale in the first place.

1459
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 2: And this explains you know, I tweeted this kind of

1460
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 2: as a joke, but I think I've said it previously.

1461
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 2: I always wondered, you know, you always meet people in

1462
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 2: your life who are just like going around and they're

1463
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 2: always like, I'm studying for my real estate license, and

1464
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 2: I was like, why, I really wonder are they really

1465
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:15,880
Speaker 2: making all this money? And you know, reading the details

1466
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:17,400
Speaker 2: of this, I'm like, oh, yeah, they're making a ton

1467
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:19,760
Speaker 2: of money. It's like you don't have to do all

1468
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 2: that much, especially in a high cost of living area

1469
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,639
Speaker 2: where I mean here in the DMV. The average sale

1470
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 2: price in some neighborhoods in the DMV is a million bucks.

1471
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 2: So six percent of that is sixty thousand dollars that

1472
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:35,560
Speaker 2: you can make off of a single transaction. You just

1473
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 2: do two and you've made a pretty good nut for

1474
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 2: some part time work. All of that going away just

1475
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 2: means that there's more power and ultimately too for sellers.

1476
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 2: Because housing is such a holder of equity and is

1477
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 2: the number one way that people reach a positive net

1478
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 2: worth in this country. This is very advantageous because it

1479
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 2: means that you can hold on to a lot more

1480
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 2: of your home equity whenever you do come time to

1481
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:01,600
Speaker 2: realize that game, if and ever that you need to

1482
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 2: again twenty five thousand bucks, maybe fifty up to seventy thousand,

1483
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:07,960
Speaker 2: you know, depending on the price of your home in

1484
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 2: any area, that can mean quite a bit for retirement,

1485
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 2: for inheritance, for a lot of other purposes.

1486
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:16,919
Speaker 1: Listen, it is truly a seismic shift, and the industry

1487
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 1: is reacting as such.

1488
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:21,600
Speaker 4: It really is huge. I think they'll probably be a period.

1489
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 1: Where things haven't settled out, where there's all kinds of

1490
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 1: different arrangements and people are trying to figure it out,

1491
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 1: probably settle into some new model that is sort of

1492
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,640
Speaker 1: the typical and the standard, the default, while you'll have

1493
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: more optionality, asagas pointing out, but I think it'll take

1494
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 1: a while for that to shake out exactly how this

1495
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 1: is going to look going forward. You know, I do

1496
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,640
Speaker 1: think in terms of the number of people who are realtors,

1497
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:46,679
Speaker 1: especially like you said, those who aren't super high performing.

1498
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 4: It is going to be a real blow to their livelihood.

1499
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 1: I support a just transition for them, but I think

1500
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 1: overall it will make the market better for you know,

1501
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 1: the people who are actually trying to buy and sell homes.

1502
01:10:57,720 --> 01:10:59,560
Speaker 1: And by the way, you know, we could put this

1503
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 1: next piece up on the screen about just where the

1504
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 1: housing market is. Home prices continued to hit new highs.

1505
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:08,599
Speaker 1: We had a new all time high in December.

1506
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 4: We had a.

1507
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:14,839
Speaker 1: Period where prices had basically flatlined. But in most markets

1508
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 1: they have either you know, stayed stable or continued to rise.

1509
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 1: And prices, especially with you know, mortgage rates being significantly

1510
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,240
Speaker 1: higher than they used to be, prices and affordability, it

1511
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: really is a disaster for people who are trying to

1512
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:33,360
Speaker 1: get their first foot on the rung of the home

1513
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 1: ownership ladder. And I'm sorry, guys, but they are not

1514
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,040
Speaker 1: predicting that there's any relief insight in terms of in

1515
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 1: terms of prices, and the expectation is that potentially this

1516
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 1: shift could lead to even more you know, housing demand

1517
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 1: and more churn in the market. But you still have

1518
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 1: a problem of low inventory that is that is, you know,

1519
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 1: really hindering things and really keeping prices at that incredibly

1520
01:11:58,600 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: elevated level.

1521
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:01,640
Speaker 2: They're likely hood actually is that the housing market is

1522
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 2: only going to heat up even more because interest rates

1523
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 2: are already dropping. I believe that they average mortgage somewhere

1524
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 2: around six percent right now. The FED is projected to

1525
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 2: cut rates sometime in the middle of the summer, will

1526
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 2: probably settle around like four percent, which is not all

1527
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:19,000
Speaker 2: that much higher where that things work in twenty twenty one,

1528
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 2: that's enough where there'll be some normalization the stick. You know,

1529
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 2: sellers will then have been relatively comfortable with the fact

1530
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 2: that prices have not been moving as much previously, and

1531
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:31,439
Speaker 2: they're willing to press the button. But the problem has

1532
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 2: been on new construction. We don't have a lot of

1533
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 2: new construction inventory that's coming online, and in general, especially

1534
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,839
Speaker 2: here in the Northeast, we have a massive housing crisis.

1535
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 3: Same thing in the coast.

1536
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:44,679
Speaker 2: So I did a whole monologue yesterday about Census about

1537
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:47,719
Speaker 2: where people are moving. Unsurprisingly, I went and I actually

1538
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:48,599
Speaker 2: sent this to our group.

1539
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 3: Thing.

1540
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:52,840
Speaker 2: If you look at new housing inventory dramatically, it is

1541
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 2: all in these red states with very little housing regulation.

1542
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:59,600
Speaker 2: It's Texas, it's Florida, it's Tennessee. It's a lot of

1543
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:02,320
Speaker 2: places with decent enough weather. But more importantly, they just

1544
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 2: have a lot more inventory. Yeah, cheaper stuff that's coming online.

1545
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:06,719
Speaker 4: Is we've got to build more. We got to build

1546
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:08,280
Speaker 4: orm and that's that's the bottom line.

1547
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 1: And we got to help people too, because these prices

1548
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:12,599
Speaker 1: have gotten so high, and this is something that Joe

1549
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 1: Biden floated like a small solution for but we got

1550
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 1: to help people with the down payments because as it

1551
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 1: stands right now, the number of people who are first

1552
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 1: time home buyers who rely on you know, mom and

1553
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: dad or something other wealthy for under relative in order

1554
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 1: to be able to front a sufficient down payment has

1555
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:31,639
Speaker 1: gone to all time highs, putting it out of reach

1556
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 1: and locking in these you know, generational wealth trends where

1557
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 1: if you don't have the luxury have grown up with

1558
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:39,799
Speaker 1: a mom and dad who confront you that down payment,

1559
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 1: you're likely to be locked out of the housing market

1560
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:43,600
Speaker 1: for a very long time, if not forever.

1561
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 3: On inheritance too.

1562
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 2: So I've been learning a lot about tax law, and

1563
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:50,639
Speaker 2: there I've learned about the step up basis.

1564
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 3: I know we've talked about this previously.

1565
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:55,519
Speaker 2: What an insane law where if you like, And this

1566
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:57,760
Speaker 2: is the way that people really transfer wealth in this country.

1567
01:13:57,800 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 2: It's not about handing over dollars. You put all your

1568
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 2: money into real estate. Let's say you buy a house

1569
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:05,760
Speaker 2: thirty five years ago. Whenever you die, the value of

1570
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:08,759
Speaker 2: the house gets quote unquote stepped up to your heirs,

1571
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 2: meaning that let's say you bought a house for one

1572
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 2: hundred grand and it's worth a million bucks well upon

1573
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 2: your death when it transfers for your heirs, if they

1574
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 2: sell it, they don't sell.

1575
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:18,799
Speaker 3: They don't pay any capital gain.

1576
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 2: Over the value of where it was when you died,

1577
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,599
Speaker 2: not the value of the one hundred to nine hundred

1578
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 2: thousand dollars capital gain, So you actually have less of

1579
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:29,200
Speaker 2: an incentive to sell if you want to have a

1580
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:32,479
Speaker 2: more tax efficient way of transferring things over to your airs.

1581
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 2: It's a total loophole, and obviously you can understand why

1582
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 2: that leads to all these real estate barons just passing

1583
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 2: stuff down because then you can take, you know, refinance

1584
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:44,639
Speaker 2: or whatever to pull value out of a mortgage out

1585
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 2: of the mortgage and then never pay any tax on

1586
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 2: any of this. So anyway, the more I learn about this,

1587
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 2: I'm like, man, this tax code is so rigid. Is

1588
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:54,519
Speaker 2: the most insane thing I've ever learned.

1589
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:56,959
Speaker 4: Although to be ho, listen, this is a whole other conversation.

1590
01:14:57,080 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 4: But given what we're funding an Injuril right now, I've

1591
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 4: never been more anti time than I am right now.

1592
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: I feel more libertarian every day. Like, you know what,

1593
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:04,679
Speaker 1: these people got a freaking point.

1594
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 2: Well, what would be good is some sort of like

1595
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,439
Speaker 2: the taxpayer has to have a referendum on certain things

1596
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:13,400
Speaker 2: that they think you have to pay for. I actually

1597
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 2: I kind of liked that idea because then you know,

1598
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:19,720
Speaker 2: anytime they want to spend extra month like Ukraine or

1599
01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:21,760
Speaker 2: something like that, they wanted sixty billion, It's like, okay,

1600
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 2: well then you have to prove as to why. I

1601
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 2: don't know if anybody knows this, but the total amount

1602
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 2: of our tax revenue that came brought in last year

1603
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:32,560
Speaker 2: is now only enough to pay the interest on the

1604
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 2: debt right now. So there's a lot that's going on.

1605
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 2: Let's move on to the next part about Boeing. This

1606
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 2: is something we wanted to make sure we got into

1607
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 2: the show and update on the story we did yesterday.

1608
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 2: The Boeing whistleblower John Barnett, who allegedly died by suicide.

1609
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:51,519
Speaker 2: His friend came forward in an interview and said that

1610
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 2: there was no way that he killed himself, that he

1611
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 2: had told her previously if he was ever found dead

1612
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 2: by suicide, that it was almost certainly a result of

1613
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 2: the murder. Well, we are learning even more about the

1614
01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:04,479
Speaker 2: circumstances of his death, which are very fishy. Let's put

1615
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 2: this up there on the screen. It turns out mister

1616
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 2: Barnett was planning to drive home to Louisiana after his

1617
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 2: deposition on March eighth, before Boeing lawyers asked him to

1618
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 2: stay one more day to finish his testimony. His body

1619
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:25,560
Speaker 2: was then found on the morning of March ninth, so

1620
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 2: he was planning on going home. He stayed an extra

1621
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 2: day last minute. As a result of that last minute's stay,

1622
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 2: he is then found dead the next morning. Again Charleston

1623
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:39,440
Speaker 2: police claiming that this is an apparent suicide from the circumstances,

1624
01:16:39,479 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 2: but a lot of the details do not continue to

1625
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 2: add up.

1626
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 3: Let's go to the next one.

1627
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,600
Speaker 2: As they show mister Barnett was planning to start that

1628
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:51,000
Speaker 2: drive after completing that testimony and then something quote happened

1629
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 2: overnight at his hotel room, and he has found dead

1630
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 2: the next morning. This is direct testimony here from the

1631
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,719
Speaker 2: people who were involved. They say John was really tired

1632
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 2: and he didn't want to testify anymore that day. He

1633
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 2: wanted to drive home to Louisiana starting that evening as

1634
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 2: he had planned, told his mom he'd be home on Sunday,

1635
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 2: and it took him two days to drive home. I

1636
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 2: suggested we break for a week or two. The Boeing

1637
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:14,800
Speaker 2: lawyers took the position no more depositions could be taken

1638
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 2: until mister Barnett had completed his testimony. Let's go to

1639
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:23,360
Speaker 2: the next part here. This is especially important. The previous

1640
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:26,640
Speaker 2: day Barnett was on a roll. The video camera had

1641
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:30,439
Speaker 2: recorded the event. He testified for four hours in questioning.

1642
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 2: This was following seven hours of cross examination by Boeing lawyers.

1643
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:37,679
Speaker 2: He was really happy telling his side of the story,

1644
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 2: excited to field our questions, and he was doing a

1645
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:40,360
Speaker 2: great job.

1646
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:42,960
Speaker 3: Quote, it was explosive stuff.

1647
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:45,839
Speaker 2: As I'm sitting there, I'm thinking, this is the BET's

1648
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 2: witness I've ever seen. At one point, says his lawyer.

1649
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 2: The Boeing lawyer protested that Barnett was reciting the details

1650
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 2: of incidents from a decade ago and specific dates without

1651
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 2: looking at documents. As his lawyer recalled, Barnett fired back,

1652
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:01,760
Speaker 2: I know these dogs documents inside and out. I have

1653
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:04,960
Speaker 2: had to live it, so Cristal, from the interviews, from

1654
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 2: all the testimony. Now, this man was an explosive witness

1655
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:12,720
Speaker 2: with deep knowledge as to Boeing misconduct, and then by

1656
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 2: Boeing's own request, he ends up staying an extra day

1657
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 2: and he's found dead in the next morning.

1658
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:19,000
Speaker 3: So you can riddle me that one.

1659
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:21,360
Speaker 4: If we can judge for themsel, yeah, you can make

1660
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 4: up your own mind of events. And this lawsuit was

1661
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:27,479
Speaker 4: with regards to you know, he was a long time

1662
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:32,120
Speaker 4: Boeing employee. Obviously according to this account and also interviews

1663
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 4: he's given.

1664
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 1: I mean this has been put on display for the public.

1665
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:39,480
Speaker 1: He was had extraordinarily detailed knowledge. He was an extraordinarily

1666
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:44,040
Speaker 1: compelling witness. This particular lawsuit had to do with his

1667
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 1: allegations that he was basically bullying and retalied against him.

1668
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:51,600
Speaker 1: Pushed down because of, you know, raising the concerns some

1669
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:55,200
Speaker 1: of which were we heard him raise in interviews.

1670
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:57,599
Speaker 4: And have been documented. He wants to go home.

1671
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:01,479
Speaker 1: Testimony is pushed by the Bowie side to continue for

1672
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:04,040
Speaker 1: another day, and then he is found dead and his

1673
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 1: friend says he told him her explicitly that if he

1674
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 1: was found dead, it was not a suicide.

1675
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:11,320
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1676
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:15,080
Speaker 1: Very As I said before, it is very convenient for

1677
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:17,000
Speaker 1: Boeing that this man is out of the way. They

1678
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:20,640
Speaker 1: have perhaps never been under as much scrutiny as they

1679
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:25,719
Speaker 1: are right now. The number of incidents involving Boeing planes

1680
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 1: that are you know, happening on a near daily basis

1681
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:29,759
Speaker 1: are insane.

1682
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:30,400
Speaker 4: Course.

1683
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 1: The situation with the door plug coming out, you know,

1684
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:37,280
Speaker 1: and endangering the lives of everyone on board has invited

1685
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 1: incredible scrutiny, including a potential criminal investigation. So there is

1686
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:46,240
Speaker 1: a lot on the line for Boeing right now. And

1687
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 1: mister Barnett was right at the heart of that.

1688
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, I would be remiss if I

1689
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 2: didn't mention that one of the things that mister Barnett

1690
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 2: had alleged in his whistleblowing lawsuit is charging that Boeing

1691
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:00,280
Speaker 2: violated the Department of Labor statutes that he said it

1692
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:02,680
Speaker 2: was unlawful to retaliate against a whistleblower.

1693
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:04,960
Speaker 3: He had alleged whistleblower.

1694
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:09,040
Speaker 2: Retaliation, and he was actually seeking compensation from the company

1695
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 2: as part of this lawsuit, saying he was blackballed and

1696
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:14,880
Speaker 2: didn't deserve what he was owed to him because his

1697
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 2: bosses failed to heed all of the warnings that he

1698
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 2: had given them, and he said that he was suffering

1699
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:23,000
Speaker 2: from PTSD as a result of the way that he

1700
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 2: was treated. So look, I think Boeing is going to

1701
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,760
Speaker 2: try and say, oh, he's a mentally disturbed individual and

1702
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:30,240
Speaker 2: all of that, But from all of the testimony that

1703
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 2: they have right now, I mean, it's just one where.

1704
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 3: Look so much at it too is so it's so sketchy.

1705
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 2: For example, they say that all of his stuff was

1706
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 2: packed up, you know, whenever he was found dead. Why

1707
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,120
Speaker 2: would you pack something up if you thought you were

1708
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 2: if you're a warning commitsuice. I mean, there's a lot

1709
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 2: of things you know, in the overall like mini by

1710
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:52,400
Speaker 2: minute account of his death and of how his body

1711
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:54,519
Speaker 2: was found and all of that, that still doesn't make

1712
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:55,960
Speaker 2: a lot of sense. This all took place at a

1713
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:58,559
Speaker 2: holiday inn. I'd love to see some camera footage about

1714
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:01,439
Speaker 2: that room and all that. But potentially, even if he

1715
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:05,320
Speaker 2: was blackmailed, we have no idea certainly possible that he

1716
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:08,280
Speaker 2: was mentally disturbed and fell pressure to this. But the

1717
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:10,559
Speaker 2: more that we learn about it, that's sketchier and sketchier.

1718
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:12,839
Speaker 2: The circumstances get so to flag.

1719
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:13,920
Speaker 4: That for everybody there was one other.

1720
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 1: Well, there were a number of pieces of information this

1721
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 1: report that were new as far as I know, I

1722
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:21,080
Speaker 1: recommend you read it. This was Yahoo, I believe that

1723
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:23,560
Speaker 1: put this all together. And one of the things that

1724
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:25,680
Speaker 1: they said was that when he was found there was

1725
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:28,720
Speaker 1: some sort of a note that was with him. We

1726
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:30,560
Speaker 1: don't know the contents of that note. We don't know

1727
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 1: what you know it allegedly says or didn't say. So

1728
01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:36,639
Speaker 1: that's another thing to keep an eye on. But obviously massive,

1729
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 1: massive questions here about the circumstances surrounding his death. Okay,

1730
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:42,120
Speaker 1: all right, all right, let's move on to the very

1731
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:45,720
Speaker 1: latest out of Israel, and especially with regards to our

1732
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:49,840
Speaker 1: government's unconditional support for their assault and annihilation of the

1733
01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:54,520
Speaker 1: Gaza Strip. We have more rhetorical pushback from the Biden administration,

1734
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:57,640
Speaker 1: especially vis a VI BB net and Yahoo. This is

1735
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:02,120
Speaker 1: Jake Sullivan yesterday talking about how Biden rejects the straw

1736
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 1: man that Phebe has laid out that invading Rafa is

1737
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:06,719
Speaker 1: necessary to beat Hamas.

1738
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:08,480
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to how he framed.

1739
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:11,120
Speaker 12: That the Israeli government is now talking about launching a

1740
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:15,240
Speaker 12: major military operation in Rafa. The President the Prime Minister

1741
01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:18,920
Speaker 12: spoke at length about Rafa today. The President explained why

1742
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:22,000
Speaker 12: he is so deeply concerned about the prospect of Israel

1743
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:26,040
Speaker 12: conducting major military operations in Rafa, of the kind of

1744
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:29,920
Speaker 12: conduct it in Gaza City and Conunis. First, more than

1745
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:33,519
Speaker 12: a million people have taken refuge in Rafa. They went

1746
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 12: from Gaza City to Knunis and then to Rafa. They

1747
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:40,400
Speaker 12: have nowhere else to go. Gaza's other major cities have

1748
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 12: largely been destroyed, and Israel has not presented us or

1749
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 12: the world with a plan for how or where they

1750
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 12: would safely move those civilians, let alone feed and house

1751
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 12: them and ensure access to basic things like sanitation. Second,

1752
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:59,080
Speaker 12: Rafa is a primary entry point for humanitarian assistants into

1753
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:02,960
Speaker 12: Gaza from Eba and from Israel. An invasion would shut

1754
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:05,240
Speaker 12: that down or at least put it at grave risk,

1755
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:09,799
Speaker 12: right at the moment when it is most sorely needed. Third,

1756
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:13,280
Speaker 12: Rafa is on the border with Egypt, which has voiced

1757
01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:17,000
Speaker 12: its deep alarm over a major military operation there and

1758
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:20,240
Speaker 12: has even raised questions about its future relationship with Israel

1759
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:25,160
Speaker 12: as a result of any impending military operation. Now the

1760
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:28,400
Speaker 12: President has rejected and did again today the straw man

1761
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:32,120
Speaker 12: that raising questions about RAFA is the same as raising

1762
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:33,679
Speaker 12: questions about defeating Hamas.

1763
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:35,120
Speaker 3: That's just nonsense.

1764
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:37,880
Speaker 12: Our position is that Hamash should not be allowed to

1765
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:40,920
Speaker 12: save Haven and Rafa or anywhere else, but a major

1766
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:42,120
Speaker 12: ground operation there.

1767
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:42,879
Speaker 3: Would be a mistake.

1768
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:45,960
Speaker 12: It would lead to more innocent civilian deaths, worse in

1769
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:50,040
Speaker 12: the already dire humanitarian crisis, deepen the anarchy in Gaza,

1770
01:23:50,360 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 12: and further isolate Israel internationally. More importantly, the key goals

1771
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:57,439
Speaker 12: Israel wants to achieve and RAFA can be done by

1772
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 12: other means. On the call today, and Biden asked the

1773
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:05,280
Speaker 12: Prime Minister to send a senior interagency team composed of military,

1774
01:24:05,439 --> 01:24:09,920
Speaker 12: intelligence and humanitarian officials to Washington in the coming days

1775
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:14,519
Speaker 12: to hear US concerns about Israel's current RAFA planning and

1776
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:17,680
Speaker 12: to lay out an alternative approach that would target key

1777
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:21,160
Speaker 12: Hamas elements in RAFA and secure the egypt Gods of

1778
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 12: border without a major ground invasion.

1779
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:25,840
Speaker 4: So there you go again, Sager.

1780
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:29,000
Speaker 1: I'm curious your reaction by, you know, sort of upping

1781
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:31,720
Speaker 1: the anti in terms of the level of rhetoric. What

1782
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:35,519
Speaker 1: I'm not hearing is still any actual concrete policy change.

1783
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:38,600
Speaker 2: Look, I think that they're trying. I mean, from their perspective,

1784
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:40,720
Speaker 2: they have tried to delay this as long as they have.

1785
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:44,320
Speaker 2: They believe that it was a they believe it's been successful,

1786
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 2: at least so far, because it hasn't happened. From what

1787
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:51,520
Speaker 2: I understand, there is a new hostage negotiation temporary ceasefire

1788
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 2: thing happening right in Qatar.

1789
01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:55,280
Speaker 3: I don't know lived through this movie before.

1790
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:57,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're supposed to get that done before Ramadan.

1791
01:24:57,840 --> 01:24:59,920
Speaker 2: We've lived through many of these movies before. That said,

1792
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 2: people are still talking. It's not necessarily a bad thing.

1793
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:04,439
Speaker 2: They're trying to forestall it at the very least. I

1794
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:06,240
Speaker 2: think what the Biden administration's tried to do is hold

1795
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:08,160
Speaker 2: off any sort of assault during the month of Ramadan,

1796
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 2: which he is really cleep saying that they won't do.

1797
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:12,720
Speaker 2: But then they still haven't done it, at least so far.

1798
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:15,479
Speaker 2: I'm not exactly sure. What I do know is that

1799
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:20,280
Speaker 2: increasingly that from the White House's perspective, there's been spit

1800
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 2: in the face now so many times that they are

1801
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:25,800
Speaker 2: beginning to look ridiculous, where they're like, well, we've asked

1802
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:27,400
Speaker 2: he's realies to do this and it's not happening. Well,

1803
01:25:27,439 --> 01:25:29,719
Speaker 2: we've asked he's really to do this, and it's not happening.

1804
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:33,439
Speaker 2: And they rely on obfuscations or just non acknowledgment. And

1805
01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:36,040
Speaker 2: in this particular case, if there is a rubicon cross

1806
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:39,000
Speaker 2: with RAFA invasion, it would just be even more humiliating

1807
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:42,400
Speaker 2: to them. But again, from the Israeli perspective, wiser why

1808
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:44,280
Speaker 2: would they heed their warning?

1809
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:45,479
Speaker 3: There's no reason to do it.

1810
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:48,760
Speaker 2: Biden literally set himself on tape on camera that he

1811
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:51,240
Speaker 2: will never condition AID to Israel.

1812
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:52,479
Speaker 4: Says that will never leave Israel.

1813
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:55,559
Speaker 3: That's it's like, okay, so you can have Jake.

1814
01:25:55,439 --> 01:25:57,560
Speaker 4: Sullivan on here pushing back on your straw man and

1815
01:25:57,720 --> 01:25:58,320
Speaker 4: all you want.

1816
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:01,439
Speaker 1: You said you would ever leave Israel, You said you

1817
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:05,280
Speaker 1: would never condition Aid, you know, specifically called out Iron Dome.

1818
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:10,160
Speaker 1: But you know, in this same sentence where he's supposedly

1819
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 1: laying on a red line, he's immediately saying, well, there

1820
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:16,799
Speaker 1: really is no red line. And again words are fine.

1821
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:20,360
Speaker 1: BB does not care about words. That is very clear.

1822
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:22,599
Speaker 1: So they had to escalate from like, you know, there's

1823
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:25,040
Speaker 1: leaks that used to come with our having tough conversations

1824
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:28,280
Speaker 1: to now come into the podium and doing some rhetorical

1825
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:31,559
Speaker 1: pushback and you know, green lighting Schumer's speech calling for newgaver.

1826
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:33,240
Speaker 1: These you know, these things are not where I'm going

1827
01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:35,559
Speaker 1: to show you a few more noteworthy comments from other

1828
01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:40,200
Speaker 1: Democratic politicians. As long as there is no change in policy,

1829
01:26:40,360 --> 01:26:43,240
Speaker 1: it literally doesn't matter. And I don't think that they

1830
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:46,280
Speaker 1: have pushed back anything with regard to RAFA. Remember we

1831
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:48,639
Speaker 1: were looking at those reports when bbe started talking about

1832
01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:51,559
Speaker 1: going into Rath and it became clear they had these plans, saying, well,

1833
01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:53,400
Speaker 1: they're not really ready to do this right now.

1834
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 4: We saw this.

1835
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:56,719
Speaker 1: Haratz had a whole analysis of like, they're one hundred

1836
01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:59,880
Speaker 1: percent going to go in, but they're not prepared.

1837
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 4: They don't have the troops on the ground, they don't

1838
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:03,880
Speaker 4: have the plan worked up, etc. Etc.

1839
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:07,680
Speaker 1: So it's no surprise that has taken a while for

1840
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:09,759
Speaker 1: them to be able to execute on these plans.

1841
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:12,680
Speaker 4: But make no mistake about it. Jake Sullivan calling them

1842
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 4: out for their straw.

1843
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:17,720
Speaker 1: Man is not going to dissuade them from continuing the

1844
01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:20,639
Speaker 1: horrors that we have seen, as none of the rhetoric

1845
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:24,760
Speaker 1: has dissuaded them from continuing, for example, starving this entire population.

1846
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:25,800
Speaker 4: Put a pin in that.

1847
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 1: Because I've got more on that, I think part of

1848
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:30,720
Speaker 1: the context. Let's put this next piece up on the

1849
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:35,360
Speaker 1: screen for why you're seeing this different rhetoric from the

1850
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 1: Biden White House is because they have finally belatedly realized

1851
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 1: that his unconditional support for Israel is a disaster for

1852
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 1: his electoral aspirations. This NBC News report is so revealing

1853
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:50,719
Speaker 1: on a number of levels, so headline here. Behind the scenes,

1854
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:53,360
Speaker 1: Biden has grown angry and anxious about re election effort.

1855
01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:55,639
Speaker 1: In a private meeting at the White House in January,

1856
01:27:55,720 --> 01:27:58,400
Speaker 1: allies of the president just told him his poll numbers

1857
01:27:58,439 --> 01:28:02,080
Speaker 1: in Michigan and Georgia, kind of important states, had dropped

1858
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:05,599
Speaker 1: over his handling of the war between Israel and Hamas,

1859
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:09,000
Speaker 1: both their battleground states he narrowly won four years ago.

1860
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:12,479
Speaker 1: As we all know, he began to shout and swear.

1861
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:16,200
Speaker 1: A lawmaker familiar with the meeting said he believed he

1862
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:19,839
Speaker 1: had been doing what was right despite the political fallout,

1863
01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:23,560
Speaker 1: he told the group. So I think that part is

1864
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:25,920
Speaker 1: in some ways the most revealing soccer because it's not

1865
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 1: like he's rethinking what he did. He still thinks he's right.

1866
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:33,840
Speaker 1: He's just upset about the political fallout, which is why

1867
01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:37,920
Speaker 1: they're attempting this messaging shift from war behind Israel to

1868
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:40,800
Speaker 1: we have problems with what Israel is doing, We're just

1869
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:42,360
Speaker 1: too impotent in and effective to.

1870
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:43,280
Speaker 4: Actually change course.

1871
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:44,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense.

1872
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:47,080
Speaker 1: At the same time, you know this also very noteworthy.

1873
01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:51,479
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi is even now directly calling out Israel for

1874
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 1: their starvation policy.

1875
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:55,000
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to what she had to say.

1876
01:28:55,200 --> 01:29:01,559
Speaker 13: The issue of food in God is a very big one,

1877
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:07,640
Speaker 13: and either the Prime Minister Naciello is unaware or ill informed,

1878
01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:13,320
Speaker 13: but the head of the world's Central Kitchen, Jose Andres,

1879
01:29:13,400 --> 01:29:17,839
Speaker 13: who's there as you mentioned Sindy McCain, the World's Food Program,

1880
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:21,920
Speaker 13: and any other other of these entities that are there

1881
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:25,440
Speaker 13: to feed the people, will tell you there is starvation,

1882
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 13: there is famine, there is dehydration because it has not

1883
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:35,040
Speaker 13: Israel has not allowed the food and the humanitarian assistants

1884
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:36,400
Speaker 13: to go right in So.

1885
01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:40,320
Speaker 1: This is significant SOGA because in order to be in

1886
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:45,600
Speaker 1: accordance with American US law, you cannot ship weapons to

1887
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:49,040
Speaker 1: a country that is blocking humanitarian aid. And so the

1888
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:52,360
Speaker 1: fact that Nancy Pelosi is saying that outright is basically

1889
01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:53,600
Speaker 1: an admission.

1890
01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:55,880
Speaker 4: That we have been violating US law.

1891
01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:59,800
Speaker 1: Israel's just signed been compelled to sign this letter, you know,

1892
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:03,280
Speaker 1: certifying that they're not blocking humanitarian assistance, which is just

1893
01:30:03,720 --> 01:30:04,479
Speaker 1: a complete lie.

1894
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:05,559
Speaker 4: And we also had.

1895
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:11,240
Speaker 1: Senator Van Holland similarly indicating they are not in compliance

1896
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 1: and saying it very directly.

1897
01:30:12,439 --> 01:30:13,599
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that as well.

1898
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:17,200
Speaker 14: You said last week senators need to read the classified

1899
01:30:17,280 --> 01:30:20,400
Speaker 14: report prepared by the Director of National Intelligence about the

1900
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:24,760
Speaker 14: NETNYA who government claims about that agency. You seem to

1901
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:28,640
Speaker 14: be implying that the links to terror groups are unfounded.

1902
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:33,280
Speaker 15: Oh, there's no doubt that the claim that Prime Minister

1903
01:30:33,400 --> 01:30:36,320
Speaker 15: net Yaho and others are making that somehow UNRA is

1904
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:39,679
Speaker 15: a proxy for Hamas are just flat out lies.

1905
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:41,000
Speaker 3: That's a flat out lie.

1906
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:43,880
Speaker 15: If you look at the person who's in charge of

1907
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:47,800
Speaker 15: operations on the ground in Gaza for UNRA, it's about

1908
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:51,599
Speaker 15: a twenty year US Army veteran, You can be sure

1909
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:56,240
Speaker 15: he is not in cahoots with Hamas. Net Yaho has

1910
01:30:56,360 --> 01:31:00,920
Speaker 15: wanted to get rid of UNRA since at least twenty seventeen.

1911
01:31:01,080 --> 01:31:04,519
Speaker 15: That's been his goal, not just in Gaza, but also

1912
01:31:04,640 --> 01:31:07,519
Speaker 15: in the other places you talked about. And if you

1913
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:10,360
Speaker 15: get rid of un in Gaza today, it is the

1914
01:31:10,479 --> 01:31:14,920
Speaker 15: primary distribution system for food and aid. So if you

1915
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:18,439
Speaker 15: cut off funding for UNRA in Gaza entirely, it means

1916
01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:22,240
Speaker 15: more people will starve, more people won't get the medical

1917
01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:25,360
Speaker 15: assistance they need, and so it would be a huge

1918
01:31:25,400 --> 01:31:26,880
Speaker 15: mistake to cut them off.

1919
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:29,400
Speaker 14: Israel has until March twenty fourth to turn in a letter.

1920
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:32,640
Speaker 14: They reportedly did so are they in compliance?

1921
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:36,559
Speaker 15: No, they're not not as of today. And you're right,

1922
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 15: this is a very important tool that the Biden administrations

1923
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:42,680
Speaker 15: put forward. Applies to Israel and any other country that

1924
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:44,320
Speaker 15: receives US military assistance.

1925
01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:48,640
Speaker 14: Well, President Biden's administration say that they're not in compliance.

1926
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:49,400
Speaker 4: Are you confident?

1927
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:54,920
Speaker 15: I hope they will because President Biden himself has repeatedly

1928
01:31:55,000 --> 01:32:00,959
Speaker 15: said that the net Yahoo government is unnecessarily restricting desperately

1929
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 15: needed humanitarian assistance. I mean, the President has said it

1930
01:32:03,479 --> 01:32:07,160
Speaker 15: a number of times he said no excuses. So it

1931
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:10,840
Speaker 15: may be that the Minister of Defense in Israel signed this,

1932
01:32:11,560 --> 01:32:14,719
Speaker 15: but I cannot imagine a scenario right now where Secretary

1933
01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 15: Blincoln can find that that promise is credible and reliable

1934
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:22,840
Speaker 15: when the day it was signed, clearly the net and

1935
01:32:22,920 --> 01:32:25,880
Speaker 15: Yahoo government is not compliance because we see that they're

1936
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:28,360
Speaker 15: continuing to restrict humanitarian assistance.

1937
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 1: So then the I'm not criticizing here because I think

1938
01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:33,760
Speaker 1: that was a good exchange. But the follow up question,

1939
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:35,519
Speaker 1: Soccer is Okay, well, are you going to vote for

1940
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:38,560
Speaker 1: continued military aid given the fact that you're certifying that

1941
01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:41,639
Speaker 1: they are not in compliance? Because that's really the bottom

1942
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:45,640
Speaker 1: line here, Like you can express your bleeding heart liberalism

1943
01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:50,200
Speaker 1: by saying, you know, Israel is starving cousins and they're

1944
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:51,719
Speaker 1: blocking humanitarian aid.

1945
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:52,960
Speaker 4: All of which is completely true.

1946
01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:55,600
Speaker 1: But if you're still going to vote for the for

1947
01:32:55,720 --> 01:32:58,360
Speaker 1: the weapons to ship, what difference does it make what

1948
01:32:58,479 --> 01:32:59,160
Speaker 1: you say, Well.

1949
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:00,840
Speaker 2: The problem is they're not even voting right now because

1950
01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 2: the Biden administration is going around their back doors to

1951
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:08,880
Speaker 2: ship weapons to them with no congressional authorization. And this

1952
01:33:09,439 --> 01:33:11,080
Speaker 2: kind of calls back to what we were talking about

1953
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:13,200
Speaker 2: previously they did this with Ukraine and they're doing it

1954
01:33:13,280 --> 01:33:15,920
Speaker 2: with Israel. Like the Imperial State basically just has the

1955
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:18,640
Speaker 2: ability to ship weapons to whoever they want with no

1956
01:33:19,320 --> 01:33:22,400
Speaker 2: authority whatsoever. Remember eight months ago they were telling us

1957
01:33:22,439 --> 01:33:24,320
Speaker 2: the Ukrainians were going to run out of weapons. Then

1958
01:33:24,360 --> 01:33:26,680
Speaker 2: they just devalued the weapon stock of everything so that

1959
01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:28,200
Speaker 2: they could tap even more.

1960
01:33:28,240 --> 01:33:30,400
Speaker 3: It's self fakery. They do the same thing right now

1961
01:33:30,439 --> 01:33:30,880
Speaker 3: with Israel.

1962
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:32,880
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this with regards to this whole

1963
01:33:33,160 --> 01:33:36,719
Speaker 1: bullshit temporary peer situations, Like, if you wanted to build

1964
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:40,639
Speaker 1: a peer for Americans, they're like infrastructure for Americans, there'll

1965
01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:43,599
Speaker 1: be a whole process. It wouldn't happen, it's the bottom line.

1966
01:33:44,000 --> 01:33:47,040
Speaker 1: And yet when it's you know, this temporary boondoggle port

1967
01:33:47,160 --> 01:33:49,800
Speaker 1: for some ass covering pr move for the Biden administration,

1968
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:51,599
Speaker 1: pretend like they care about the fact that people are

1969
01:33:51,680 --> 01:33:54,400
Speaker 1: starving to death. Oh, that can happen right away. It's like,

1970
01:33:55,040 --> 01:33:57,280
Speaker 1: what the hell is this system that we're operating under.

1971
01:33:57,400 --> 01:34:00,400
Speaker 3: Literally no, they have total unilateral authority. It's totally wrong.

1972
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:02,680
Speaker 2: I mean, for yeah, the temporary peer it's going to

1973
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:05,439
Speaker 2: cost billions and billions of dollars nobody voted for it,

1974
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:08,360
Speaker 2: nobody authorized it, nobody has to fund it. The president

1975
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 2: has the ability to deploy it, use all these forces,

1976
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:13,680
Speaker 2: and not a single one of us can do a thing.

1977
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:16,760
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean look often it can be a meme,

1978
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:19,360
Speaker 2: you know, and it can be low iq I think,

1979
01:34:19,400 --> 01:34:21,200
Speaker 2: be like, well, we've all this money for people over

1980
01:34:21,240 --> 01:34:23,439
Speaker 2: there and nothing for people over here, but here, like

1981
01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:26,280
Speaker 2: you are, right, Like, try building anything in the United

1982
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:27,040
Speaker 2: States of America.

1983
01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:30,080
Speaker 1: Try building that same temporary peer to benefit you know,

1984
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:31,920
Speaker 1: flin Michigan or whatever, or was that.

1985
01:34:32,280 --> 01:34:34,200
Speaker 2: What was that bridge that fell down, like Memphis or

1986
01:34:34,240 --> 01:34:37,080
Speaker 2: something like that, or Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, that's what it was.

1987
01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:39,320
Speaker 2: There was one Pennsylvania took the governor like you know,

1988
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:41,800
Speaker 2: he did it fast, and it was still not even

1989
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:43,600
Speaker 2: as fast as something like that.

1990
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:46,360
Speaker 3: So it's a digression, but it does show you how we've.

1991
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:49,520
Speaker 2: Got all the money in the world for Israel, Ukraine, Afghanistan,

1992
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:51,880
Speaker 2: anywhere else, but whenever it comes to our own people,

1993
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:54,400
Speaker 2: it's a lot more difficult, and that's because it's anti Democrats.

1994
01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:57,200
Speaker 4: We've also got health care for Havana syndrome, which.

1995
01:34:57,120 --> 01:34:59,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is now officially officially fake but.

1996
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:02,320
Speaker 1: Oh healthcare for let's say, you know the people in

1997
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:04,360
Speaker 1: East Palestine who were poisoned.

1998
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:06,040
Speaker 4: Oh, good luck, good luck.

1999
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:11,320
Speaker 1: That's just to underscore how dire the situation is, and

2000
01:35:11,479 --> 01:35:13,760
Speaker 1: to rebut the lies that are being pushed now on

2001
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:16,439
Speaker 1: the Israeli side that oh, there's no humanitarian crisis.

2002
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:18,000
Speaker 4: Oh no, one's starving to deat These.

2003
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:20,000
Speaker 1: Are all lives, et cetera, lies that are being pushed

2004
01:35:20,080 --> 01:35:23,599
Speaker 1: by the way, by APAK to our members of Congress,

2005
01:35:23,720 --> 01:35:27,920
Speaker 1: elected officials, by lobbyists right here in DC. Oxenham has

2006
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 1: a new report on the specifics of the many ways

2007
01:35:31,400 --> 01:35:33,400
Speaker 1: in which Israel is in fact blocking AID.

2008
01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:35,240
Speaker 4: We can put this up on the screen.

2009
01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:40,040
Speaker 1: So they flagged seven different methods that Israel is using

2010
01:35:40,240 --> 01:35:45,479
Speaker 1: to block AID, resulting predictably in the starvation of the

2011
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:46,080
Speaker 1: entire people.

2012
01:35:46,120 --> 01:35:47,160
Speaker 4: I mean, the level of.

2013
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:54,040
Speaker 1: Starvation, hunger, famine in the Gaza strip has reached absolutely horrifying,

2014
01:35:54,240 --> 01:35:57,960
Speaker 1: unthinkable levels and it is I just have no words

2015
01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:00,639
Speaker 1: for the fact that we are standing by and allowing

2016
01:36:00,720 --> 01:36:04,120
Speaker 1: this to occur. So they say, number one, they only

2017
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:07,800
Speaker 1: allow aid in via two crossings into Gaza. They are

2018
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:12,200
Speaker 1: intentionally leading this dysfunctional and undersized inspection system so that

2019
01:36:12,360 --> 01:36:14,760
Speaker 1: even you know, what goes through those two crossings is

2020
01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:20,080
Speaker 1: minimal and wildly inadequate. They are routinely and arbitrarily rejecting

2021
01:36:20,160 --> 01:36:24,240
Speaker 1: items as of aid as having dual military use. We're

2022
01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:28,280
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, things like fuel generators, including other

2023
01:36:28,360 --> 01:36:31,679
Speaker 1: items vital for a meaningful humanitarian response like protective gear

2024
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:34,160
Speaker 1: and communications kit. I know one example, I saw sogers.

2025
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:37,280
Speaker 1: They were walking tense from coming in after you've displaced

2026
01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:42,719
Speaker 1: basically this entire population. They've cracked down on humanitarian missions,

2027
01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:46,519
Speaker 1: basically seiling off northern Gaza. That's the area where the

2028
01:36:46,680 --> 01:36:50,200
Speaker 1: level of hunger is the most acute, and where the

2029
01:36:50,240 --> 01:36:52,800
Speaker 1: people that we have seen, the children and babies that

2030
01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:56,400
Speaker 1: we have seen literally starving to death, are predominantly in

2031
01:36:56,600 --> 01:37:00,360
Speaker 1: northern Gaza. Israel's assault has caught Gaza's own aid workers,

2032
01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:04,480
Speaker 1: they write and international agencies partners inside a practically uninhabitable

2033
01:37:04,640 --> 01:37:08,639
Speaker 1: environment of mass displacement and deprivation. So the aid workers

2034
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:11,960
Speaker 1: themselves obviously subject to these same conditions. So how can

2035
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:13,479
Speaker 1: they perform their duties to help the rest of the

2036
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:17,280
Speaker 1: population when they themselves are struggling and starving and suffering

2037
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:21,360
Speaker 1: under severe deprivation. Israel is rendered nowhere in Gaza safe.

2038
01:37:21,439 --> 01:37:24,680
Speaker 1: They write, amid the forcible and often multiple displacements of

2039
01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:29,040
Speaker 1: almost the entire population, You displace the entire population. That's

2040
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:32,880
Speaker 1: going to make aid distribution pretty difficult and dramatically spike

2041
01:37:33,120 --> 01:37:36,080
Speaker 1: the need, which is why there needs to be dramatically

2042
01:37:36,360 --> 01:37:40,280
Speaker 1: more trucks of aid coming into Gaza after October seventh

2043
01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 1: than there were before. And they're not even able to

2044
01:37:43,280 --> 01:37:46,000
Speaker 1: meet what was going in before, not even close. And

2045
01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:49,559
Speaker 1: they say their attacks are disproportionate and indiscriminate upon civilian

2046
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 1: and humanitarian assets, including people such as solar water power

2047
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:56,160
Speaker 1: and sanitation plants, you and premises, hospitals, roads and aid

2048
01:37:56,200 --> 01:37:59,880
Speaker 1: convoys and warehouses, even when these assets are supposedly decon

2049
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:03,200
Speaker 1: inflicted after their coordinates have been shared for protection. That's

2050
01:38:03,200 --> 01:38:06,120
Speaker 1: obviously something we have covered a number of times. But

2051
01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:09,920
Speaker 1: some of the numbers here. Seventy five percent of sewage

2052
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:13,759
Speaker 1: of solid waste is now being dumped in random sites,

2053
01:38:14,600 --> 01:38:19,479
Speaker 1: ninety seven percent of groundwater has been made unfit for

2054
01:38:19,680 --> 01:38:22,679
Speaker 1: human use, and they write, the Israeli state is using

2055
01:38:22,760 --> 01:38:25,800
Speaker 1: starvation as a weapon of war, which is just thoroughly undeniable.

2056
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:26,320
Speaker 4: At this point.

2057
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:29,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it also raises the question about this aid.

2058
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:32,439
Speaker 2: Are they going to inspect the US military port whenever

2059
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:35,080
Speaker 2: we build it or not, because I'm starting to suspect

2060
01:38:35,160 --> 01:38:36,800
Speaker 2: given all of this, that there is going to be.

2061
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:37,719
Speaker 3: At least some clearance.

2062
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:40,400
Speaker 2: And it's like talked to about it outrageous, right, that

2063
01:38:40,520 --> 01:38:45,000
Speaker 2: there will be flagging things that we're giving as potentially

2064
01:38:45,120 --> 01:38:47,479
Speaker 2: dual use or whatever, which you can claim about anything, right,

2065
01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:49,400
Speaker 2: I mean, it just doesn't make are any sense. What

2066
01:38:49,560 --> 01:38:51,240
Speaker 2: was it They were like rejected a pair of scissors,

2067
01:38:51,320 --> 01:38:54,439
Speaker 2: like medical scissors because they could have been used as

2068
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:54,840
Speaker 2: a weapon.

2069
01:38:55,680 --> 01:38:57,800
Speaker 3: It's ridiculous. Yeah, I encourage people to go read this

2070
01:38:57,840 --> 01:38:59,840
Speaker 3: for themselves. You really should because you can actually see it.

2071
01:39:00,200 --> 01:39:03,200
Speaker 1: And rejecting things like anesthetics and so you have children

2072
01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:04,880
Speaker 1: getting amputations with no I mean.

2073
01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:06,280
Speaker 4: It's just beyond people.

2074
01:39:06,320 --> 01:39:07,120
Speaker 3: It doesn't make any sense.

2075
01:39:07,439 --> 01:39:12,680
Speaker 1: And speaking of striking civilian assets, the Israeli military, for

2076
01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:16,959
Speaker 1: I believe the fourth time, has once again rated Alshifa

2077
01:39:17,040 --> 01:39:19,240
Speaker 1: Hospital can put this up on the screen. This is

2078
01:39:19,320 --> 01:39:22,560
Speaker 1: the writer's report written very much from a Western perspective.

2079
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:25,559
Speaker 1: I'll just say they say Israeli forces killed twenty gunmen

2080
01:39:25,680 --> 01:39:28,839
Speaker 1: in rate at Gaza's Alshifa Hospital, according to the IDF.

2081
01:39:29,320 --> 01:39:33,000
Speaker 1: According to the IDF, in any case, they say the

2082
01:39:33,200 --> 01:39:36,720
Speaker 1: Palestinian health authorities claim this has caused multiple casualties, set

2083
01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:40,479
Speaker 1: off a fierce fire in one of the building's Special forces,

2084
01:39:40,520 --> 01:39:43,479
Speaker 1: supported by infantry and tanks, conducted a what they describe

2085
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:47,439
Speaker 1: as a precise operation based on intelligence that the hospital

2086
01:39:47,479 --> 01:39:49,680
Speaker 1: was again being used by Hama's leaders were fired upon

2087
01:39:49,720 --> 01:39:50,759
Speaker 1: when they entered the compound.

2088
01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:54,000
Speaker 4: The military said, Al chief of the Gaza strip's.

2089
01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:55,800
Speaker 1: Biggest hospital before the war is now one of the

2090
01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:59,760
Speaker 1: only healthcare facilities that is even partially operational in the

2091
01:39:59,800 --> 01:40:03,840
Speaker 1: no of the territory. Is also housing hundreds of displaced civilians.

2092
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:06,320
Speaker 1: They have a quote from a father of two who

2093
01:40:06,439 --> 01:40:08,880
Speaker 1: was nearby. He says, suddenly we started to hear sounds

2094
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:12,200
Speaker 1: of explosion, several bombings, and soon tanks started to roll.

2095
01:40:12,520 --> 01:40:15,599
Speaker 1: They came from the western road and headed toward Al Shifa.

2096
01:40:15,640 --> 01:40:18,800
Speaker 1: Then sounds of gunfire and explosions increased. Footage circulated on

2097
01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:21,720
Speaker 1: social media appeared to show an Israeli tank blocking the

2098
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:26,400
Speaker 1: main gate of Al Shifa while this operation was being conducted.

2099
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:32,759
Speaker 1: They apparently detained at least one journalist for some twelve

2100
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:37,320
Speaker 1: hours and beat him while they detained him. He was

2101
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:41,240
Speaker 1: there at Al Shifa to cover whatever this quote unquote

2102
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:43,479
Speaker 1: precise operation was going to be. Put this up on

2103
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:47,240
Speaker 1: the screen and said they arrested and beat this journalist.

2104
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:49,920
Speaker 1: It was their report on what happened, and Al Jazeera

2105
01:40:50,040 --> 01:40:52,479
Speaker 1: journalist it was there with his press, best on etc.

2106
01:40:53,240 --> 01:40:56,360
Speaker 1: Media watchdogs, they say, are decrying Ismail Algul's arrests from

2107
01:40:56,360 --> 01:40:59,880
Speaker 1: Alshifa Hospital where thousands of civilians are trapped. He was

2108
01:41:00,200 --> 01:41:02,479
Speaker 1: early on Monday with his crew and other reporters who

2109
01:41:02,560 --> 01:41:05,200
Speaker 1: cover the Israeli Army's fourth Rate into the hospital where

2110
01:41:05,200 --> 01:41:06,639
Speaker 1: thousands of civilians are trapped.

2111
01:41:06,880 --> 01:41:07,760
Speaker 4: Witnesses said Al.

2112
01:41:07,680 --> 01:41:10,920
Speaker 1: Jazeera reporter was dragged away by Israeli forces, who also

2113
01:41:11,040 --> 01:41:16,080
Speaker 1: destroyed the broadcasting vehicles of news crews at the medical facility.

2114
01:41:16,320 --> 01:41:20,280
Speaker 1: He has since been freed after twelve hours in Israeli custody.

2115
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:24,599
Speaker 1: That reporter himself said that after his release that Israeli

2116
01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:25,240
Speaker 1: forces had.

2117
01:41:25,160 --> 01:41:26,160
Speaker 4: Destroyed media equipment.

2118
01:41:26,240 --> 01:41:28,720
Speaker 1: They had arrested other journalists as well, according to him,

2119
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:30,679
Speaker 1: that had gathered in a room that was being used

2120
01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:33,280
Speaker 1: by media teams. He said the journalists were stripped of

2121
01:41:33,320 --> 01:41:35,280
Speaker 1: their clothes, forced to lie on their stomachs as they

2122
01:41:35,320 --> 01:41:36,400
Speaker 1: were blindfolded and.

2123
01:41:36,680 --> 01:41:37,559
Speaker 4: Their hands tied.

2124
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:40,240
Speaker 1: This is no surprise, of course, because Sagar they have

2125
01:41:40,439 --> 01:41:44,400
Speaker 1: killed at least ninety five journalists and media workers, the

2126
01:41:44,439 --> 01:41:48,760
Speaker 1: overwhelming majority of them Palestinians, since October seventh. This is

2127
01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:52,280
Speaker 1: the largest toll of journalists that we have ever seen

2128
01:41:53,040 --> 01:41:55,560
Speaker 1: killed in offensive like this. And of course, you know,

2129
01:41:55,680 --> 01:41:58,559
Speaker 1: Raises listen. Al Shifa was the place that they claimed

2130
01:41:58,840 --> 01:42:01,800
Speaker 1: the hamas command and control center underneath there was a

2131
01:42:01,840 --> 01:42:06,559
Speaker 1: whole big propaganda campaign around this. Even mainstream pro Israel

2132
01:42:06,640 --> 01:42:09,080
Speaker 1: outlets like The New York Times have said they never

2133
01:42:09,960 --> 01:42:13,200
Speaker 1: proffered evidence to match the extraordinary claims that were made

2134
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:16,080
Speaker 1: not only by the Israelis but by our own government

2135
01:42:16,439 --> 01:42:18,040
Speaker 1: in the wake of that initial raid.

2136
01:42:18,479 --> 01:42:19,720
Speaker 4: And you see how these things just.

2137
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:23,040
Speaker 1: Become normalized, where now they can raid Al Shifa in

2138
01:42:23,120 --> 01:42:25,960
Speaker 1: it you know, barely gets any attention, and by the way,

2139
01:42:26,040 --> 01:42:28,400
Speaker 1: can arrest and detained journalists, so they can't show what

2140
01:42:28,560 --> 01:42:30,240
Speaker 1: is actually happening on the ground.

2141
01:42:30,280 --> 01:42:31,479
Speaker 4: Gee, I wonder what they have to hie.

2142
01:42:31,560 --> 01:42:33,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, we tried to look actually for footage because we

2143
01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:35,120
Speaker 2: wanted to be able to show it here on our show.

2144
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:37,200
Speaker 3: Let's put this last part up on the screen.

2145
01:42:37,240 --> 01:42:39,160
Speaker 2: This is also very important is that one of the

2146
01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:42,599
Speaker 2: men who was killed was a member of the Gazen

2147
01:42:42,720 --> 01:42:48,160
Speaker 2: civilian police force who there Biden administration had actually specifically

2148
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:51,200
Speaker 2: asked Israel to stop targeting even though it is quote

2149
01:42:51,280 --> 01:42:54,439
Speaker 2: unquote Hamas run, because it is leading to a quote

2150
01:42:54,520 --> 01:42:58,480
Speaker 2: total breakdown of law and order and in significantly exacerbating

2151
01:42:58,520 --> 01:43:02,480
Speaker 2: the humanitarian crisis. And I know this may sound facetious,

2152
01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:04,760
Speaker 2: but I actually did some research into this and kind

2153
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:06,600
Speaker 2: of the way that we can think about it is

2154
01:43:07,200 --> 01:43:09,600
Speaker 2: Amas runs a gaza strip, so if you were in

2155
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:12,800
Speaker 2: a civilian capacity, you're technically part from us. So the

2156
01:43:12,840 --> 01:43:15,400
Speaker 2: way that we can think about that is why was

2157
01:43:15,479 --> 01:43:18,640
Speaker 2: debathification during the Iraq War such a bad idea? For

2158
01:43:18,680 --> 01:43:21,240
Speaker 2: those who are not familiar, what we said is that

2159
01:43:21,360 --> 01:43:23,439
Speaker 2: anybody who was part of the Bath Party, who was

2160
01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:26,880
Speaker 2: under Saddam could no longer be qualified to serve in government.

2161
01:43:27,160 --> 01:43:29,280
Speaker 2: The thing is is that just like them in a

2162
01:43:29,360 --> 01:43:33,439
Speaker 2: totalitarian state, Well, if you are part of the sewage company,

2163
01:43:33,720 --> 01:43:35,360
Speaker 2: then you're part of the Bath Party. If you're a teacher,

2164
01:43:35,479 --> 01:43:37,240
Speaker 2: you're part of the Bath party. If you are part

2165
01:43:37,280 --> 01:43:40,599
Speaker 2: of any civilian administration. That doesn't mean that you cared

2166
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:43,200
Speaker 2: or you believed in Saddam. It just means that you

2167
01:43:43,280 --> 01:43:46,080
Speaker 2: wanted a job. And so this is very similar. Again,

2168
01:43:46,160 --> 01:43:48,439
Speaker 2: as I understand it from the US point of view

2169
01:43:48,680 --> 01:43:50,720
Speaker 2: as to why there is a significant difference between the

2170
01:43:50,720 --> 01:43:52,840
Speaker 2: militant arm and the civilian arm. A lot of these

2171
01:43:52,880 --> 01:43:56,280
Speaker 2: guys are quote unquote amas in name only. They never

2172
01:43:56,360 --> 01:43:59,080
Speaker 2: had anything to do with any militancy. It was just

2173
01:43:59,200 --> 01:44:02,040
Speaker 2: in terms of, you know, providing some civil administration. I've

2174
01:44:02,080 --> 01:44:03,920
Speaker 2: been a run in the damn place for seventeen years,

2175
01:44:03,960 --> 01:44:05,800
Speaker 2: so it wouldn't be crazy to think that these people

2176
01:44:05,840 --> 01:44:06,320
Speaker 2: don't exist.

2177
01:44:06,479 --> 01:44:14,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've created conditions. Israel has created conditions of absolute desperation,

2178
01:44:14,960 --> 01:44:19,080
Speaker 1: chaos and anarchy in northern Gaza, in particular because they

2179
01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:24,040
Speaker 1: completely destroyed the area. I mean, we've seen the images

2180
01:44:24,240 --> 01:44:27,960
Speaker 1: of the level of devastation which is very near complete.

2181
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:32,880
Speaker 1: You have hamas Is the government. So you know, even

2182
01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:36,679
Speaker 1: if you have a civilian police officers who are still

2183
01:44:36,840 --> 01:44:39,559
Speaker 1: wont to do the job, they're fearful of coming out

2184
01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:41,679
Speaker 1: because they'll get killed Like this dude, Yeah.

2185
01:44:41,600 --> 01:44:41,920
Speaker 3: That's right.

2186
01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:46,080
Speaker 4: So who is supposed to who is supposed to shepherd those.

2187
01:44:45,960 --> 01:44:49,360
Speaker 1: Aid convoys through and get them to you know, the

2188
01:44:49,439 --> 01:44:54,880
Speaker 1: intended desperate civilian population Israel, sure as hell isn't doing it.

2189
01:44:55,200 --> 01:44:58,040
Speaker 1: They're firing on people who are desperately trying to, you know,

2190
01:44:58,160 --> 01:45:01,120
Speaker 1: grab some flour off the truck. Multiple times, not just

2191
01:45:01,240 --> 01:45:03,920
Speaker 1: the flower masker that got attention of over a hundred

2192
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:07,439
Speaker 1: Palestinians killed, We've now had multiple incidents of them firing

2193
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:11,000
Speaker 1: on people who are desperately just seeking food. So this

2194
01:45:11,200 --> 01:45:13,400
Speaker 1: is the reason why the Biden administration has said, hey,

2195
01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:17,320
Speaker 1: stop killing police, because there is no other force of

2196
01:45:17,400 --> 01:45:20,880
Speaker 1: civil society that could create any sort of order. But

2197
01:45:21,040 --> 01:45:23,960
Speaker 1: I mean, at this point it's honestly too far gone.

2198
01:45:24,120 --> 01:45:27,040
Speaker 1: But I think it just illustrates once again the way

2199
01:45:27,120 --> 01:45:31,360
Speaker 1: that things have become normalized in this conflict. The you know,

2200
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:36,400
Speaker 1: attacks on all sorts of civilian infrastructure institutions, they get

2201
01:45:36,439 --> 01:45:39,080
Speaker 1: sort of floated. You know, there's a pr campaign. They

2202
01:45:39,400 --> 01:45:41,920
Speaker 1: try to convince the media and Biden that we have

2203
01:45:42,000 --> 01:45:43,960
Speaker 1: to do this for Hamas, and then they do it

2204
01:45:44,040 --> 01:45:47,439
Speaker 1: four more times either. You know, it says something about

2205
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:51,320
Speaker 1: how poorly you're executing this war. That this same infrastructure

2206
01:45:51,400 --> 01:45:54,400
Speaker 1: has been you know, reinhabited and your words.

2207
01:45:54,120 --> 01:45:57,000
Speaker 4: By hamas or more likely you have been lying this

2208
01:45:57,120 --> 01:45:57,519
Speaker 4: whole time.

2209
01:45:57,600 --> 01:46:00,400
Speaker 1: And I think the fact that they intentionally detained the

2210
01:46:00,479 --> 01:46:02,479
Speaker 1: journalists who were there to cover what was going on

2211
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:05,640
Speaker 1: is quite indicative of what is actually.

2212
01:46:05,400 --> 01:46:06,360
Speaker 4: Happening there on the ground.

2213
01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:10,200
Speaker 3: Crystal, what are you taking a look at?

2214
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:14,360
Speaker 1: Podcaster Lex Friedman recently hosted a roughly five hour long

2215
01:46:14,479 --> 01:46:18,040
Speaker 1: debate on Israel Palestine that was frustrating, combative at times,

2216
01:46:18,160 --> 01:46:22,439
Speaker 1: but nevertheless extraordinarily revealing. The debate featured author and scholar

2217
01:46:22,520 --> 01:46:27,360
Speaker 1: Norman Finkelstein, analyst and researcher Mauen Robani arguing the Palestinian perspective.

2218
01:46:27,800 --> 01:46:30,320
Speaker 1: On the pro Zionis side, you had author and historian

2219
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:34,320
Speaker 1: Betty Morris and YouTuber Stephen Binnell, also known as Destiny.

2220
01:46:34,640 --> 01:46:36,680
Speaker 4: Now, if your immediate reaction is that one of.

2221
01:46:36,720 --> 01:46:39,160
Speaker 1: These individuals doesn't quite fit in with the rest, you

2222
01:46:39,240 --> 01:46:41,760
Speaker 1: are correct, and it was painfully obvious the entire five

2223
01:46:41,840 --> 01:46:45,080
Speaker 1: hours that Destiny was wildly on side of his depth.

2224
01:46:45,160 --> 01:46:47,200
Speaker 1: In fact, although many of the viral clips from the

2225
01:46:47,240 --> 01:46:50,400
Speaker 1: debate involved Destiny's humiliation at the hands of Norman Finkelstein,

2226
01:46:50,800 --> 01:46:52,960
Speaker 1: the truth is that for most of the debate he

2227
01:46:53,160 --> 01:46:55,400
Speaker 1: was kind of irrelevant, sitting like a child at the

2228
01:46:55,400 --> 01:46:58,960
Speaker 1: grown ups table. His presence was nevertheless useful for helping

2229
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:03,080
Speaker 1: to illustrate the commination of ignorance, wilful blindness, and debate

2230
01:47:03,200 --> 01:47:05,920
Speaker 1: bro tricks of the trade that are required to fully

2231
01:47:05,960 --> 01:47:09,080
Speaker 1: defend the Israeli position. At this point in time, Benny

2232
01:47:09,120 --> 01:47:12,839
Speaker 1: Morris and Destiny threw every propaganda device in the Hospara

2233
01:47:12,880 --> 01:47:15,200
Speaker 1: playbook up against the wall to see what would stick.

2234
01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:17,320
Speaker 1: So let's see how it went in the face of

2235
01:47:17,400 --> 01:47:21,560
Speaker 1: what at this point is an undeniable and indefensible reality.

2236
01:47:22,160 --> 01:47:24,840
Speaker 1: So first up, any good Haspara campaign has got to

2237
01:47:24,880 --> 01:47:28,200
Speaker 1: start with a fairytale view of history. Now, in this history,

2238
01:47:28,400 --> 01:47:31,320
Speaker 1: the only permitted victims are Jewish people, who no doubt

2239
01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:34,840
Speaker 1: were horribly victimized in the Holocaust. And in this history,

2240
01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:38,240
Speaker 1: the only just response to those atrocities is not for

2241
01:47:38,320 --> 01:47:41,080
Speaker 1: the US, the UK, or Germany and the Soviet Union

2242
01:47:41,160 --> 01:47:43,559
Speaker 1: to provide justice, peace and safety for the Jewish people,

2243
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:47,280
Speaker 1: but rather to impose that burden entirely on a people

2244
01:47:47,320 --> 01:47:49,920
Speaker 1: who had nothing to do with the Holocaust, and who

2245
01:47:50,040 --> 01:47:53,640
Speaker 1: had in fact been by and large living peaceably alongside

2246
01:47:53,680 --> 01:47:57,639
Speaker 1: indigenous Jews for centuries. In other words, the only solution

2247
01:47:57,800 --> 01:48:00,479
Speaker 1: to a European atrocity was to give lice to an

2248
01:48:00,479 --> 01:48:04,520
Speaker 1: additional atrocity, the ethnic cleansing of the native Arab Palestinian

2249
01:48:04,600 --> 01:48:08,240
Speaker 1: population from their own land, and the only acceptable response

2250
01:48:08,280 --> 01:48:12,280
Speaker 1: of that Palestinian population was then to meekly accept their dispossession.

2251
01:48:12,640 --> 01:48:14,960
Speaker 1: To do otherwise is to prove that Arabs from the

2252
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:18,720
Speaker 1: beginning were violent, unreasonable, and anti Semitic. This was a

2253
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:20,679
Speaker 1: matter of quite a lot of debate at the beginning

2254
01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:23,920
Speaker 1: of the podcast. Here, for example, is Destiny challenging the

2255
01:48:24,040 --> 01:48:27,640
Speaker 1: idea that expulsion or ethnic cleansing was a core and

2256
01:48:27,760 --> 01:48:30,280
Speaker 1: necessary element of Zionism from the onset.

2257
01:48:30,439 --> 01:48:32,519
Speaker 16: A claim that gets brought up a lot has to

2258
01:48:32,560 --> 01:48:35,720
Speaker 16: do with the inevitability of transfer in Zionism, or the

2259
01:48:35,800 --> 01:48:38,719
Speaker 16: idea that as soon as the Jews envisioned a state

2260
01:48:38,800 --> 01:48:41,960
Speaker 16: in Palestine, they knew that it would involve some mass

2261
01:48:42,000 --> 01:48:45,479
Speaker 16: transfer of population, perhaps a mass expulsion. I'm sure we'll

2262
01:48:45,479 --> 01:48:48,280
Speaker 16: talk about Plan Diwallador Plant d at some point. The

2263
01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:51,160
Speaker 16: issue that I run into is while you can find

2264
01:48:51,240 --> 01:48:54,120
Speaker 16: quotes from leaders, what you can find maybe desires expressed

2265
01:48:54,120 --> 01:48:56,680
Speaker 16: in diaries. I feel like it's hard to truly ever

2266
01:48:56,880 --> 01:49:00,160
Speaker 16: know if there would have been mass transfer in the

2267
01:49:00,360 --> 01:49:02,519
Speaker 16: face of Arab peace, because I feel like every time

2268
01:49:02,600 --> 01:49:04,800
Speaker 16: there was a huge deal on the table that would

2269
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:08,320
Speaker 16: have had a sizable Jewish and Arab population living together,

2270
01:49:08,600 --> 01:49:11,320
Speaker 16: the Arabs would reject it out of hand. So, for instance,

2271
01:49:11,360 --> 01:49:13,200
Speaker 16: when we say that transfer was inevitable, when we say

2272
01:49:13,200 --> 01:49:16,799
Speaker 16: that Zionists would have never accepted a sizable Arab population,

2273
01:49:17,280 --> 01:49:19,519
Speaker 16: how do you explain the acceptance of the forty seven

2274
01:49:19,560 --> 01:49:22,120
Speaker 16: partition plan that would have had a huge Arab population

2275
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:24,719
Speaker 16: living in the Jewish state. Is your contention that after

2276
01:49:24,800 --> 01:49:27,439
Speaker 16: the acceptance of that, after the establishment of that state,

2277
01:49:27,520 --> 01:49:29,880
Speaker 16: that Jews would have slowly started to expel all of

2278
01:49:29,920 --> 01:49:32,760
Speaker 16: these Arab citizens from their country, Or how do you

2279
01:49:32,840 --> 01:49:35,240
Speaker 16: explain that in Lusana a couple of years later, that

2280
01:49:35,680 --> 01:49:38,560
Speaker 16: Israel was willing to formally annex the Gaza strip and

2281
01:49:39,240 --> 01:49:43,519
Speaker 16: make two hundred thousand people those citizens. But I'm just curious,

2282
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:47,200
Speaker 16: how do we get this idea of Zionism always means

2283
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:50,400
Speaker 16: mass transfer when there were times, at least early on

2284
01:49:50,760 --> 01:49:52,920
Speaker 16: in the history of Israel and a little bit before it,

2285
01:49:52,960 --> 01:49:55,479
Speaker 16: where Israel would have accepted a state that would have

2286
01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:58,320
Speaker 16: had a massive Arab population in it. Yeah, it's your

2287
01:49:58,360 --> 01:49:59,960
Speaker 16: idea that they would have just slowly expelled them out.

2288
01:50:00,600 --> 01:50:00,760
Speaker 4: Yes.

2289
01:50:01,240 --> 01:50:05,200
Speaker 1: In fact, expulsion or apartheid is the only logical outcome

2290
01:50:05,280 --> 01:50:08,200
Speaker 1: of establishing a Jewish state in a land that was

2291
01:50:08,439 --> 01:50:11,800
Speaker 1: and is majority Muslim Arab. Zionis leaders at the time

2292
01:50:11,880 --> 01:50:14,120
Speaker 1: were pretty open about this and about the necessity of

2293
01:50:14,240 --> 01:50:18,400
Speaker 1: violence and conflict with that indigenous population. For example, Joseph

2294
01:50:18,439 --> 01:50:22,200
Speaker 1: White's head of the Jewish Agencies Colonization Department, set in

2295
01:50:22,320 --> 01:50:25,960
Speaker 1: nineteen forty quote, between ourselves, it must be clear that

2296
01:50:26,080 --> 01:50:29,200
Speaker 1: there is no room for both peoples together in this country.

2297
01:50:29,479 --> 01:50:32,000
Speaker 1: We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are

2298
01:50:32,080 --> 01:50:34,800
Speaker 1: in this small country. There is no other way than

2299
01:50:34,840 --> 01:50:38,320
Speaker 1: to transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries, all

2300
01:50:38,439 --> 01:50:42,400
Speaker 1: of them, not one village, not one tribe, should be left.

2301
01:50:42,840 --> 01:50:46,760
Speaker 1: So pretty clear cut, and there are plenty of other

2302
01:50:46,920 --> 01:50:50,400
Speaker 1: historical quotes besides that that make it clear. Early Zionist

2303
01:50:50,479 --> 01:50:55,640
Speaker 1: leaders realized their ideology would inevitably result in conflict with Palestinians.

2304
01:50:55,960 --> 01:50:59,160
Speaker 1: Some acknowledged that Arab resistance was in fact logical and

2305
01:50:59,360 --> 01:51:03,160
Speaker 1: even just, and that they would also fervently resist displacement

2306
01:51:03,400 --> 01:51:06,320
Speaker 1: if the roles had been reversed. Now it is this

2307
01:51:06,479 --> 01:51:09,160
Speaker 1: point about the reasonable and in fact inevitable nature of

2308
01:51:09,200 --> 01:51:12,800
Speaker 1: Palestinian resistance to Zionism that Mauen Rabani picks up on.

2309
01:51:13,280 --> 01:51:16,720
Speaker 1: In doing so, he lays waste to the idea that Palestinians,

2310
01:51:16,760 --> 01:51:20,160
Speaker 1: in rejecting the original nineteen forty eight UN partition plan,

2311
01:51:20,280 --> 01:51:23,480
Speaker 1: were out of line, or even that it was inherently

2312
01:51:23,560 --> 01:51:26,400
Speaker 1: anti Semitic to reject a Jewish state being established on

2313
01:51:26,439 --> 01:51:28,120
Speaker 1: a portion of their land at all.

2314
01:51:28,479 --> 01:51:33,360
Speaker 17: I mean, one doesn't have to sympathize with the Palestinians

2315
01:51:34,479 --> 01:51:37,439
Speaker 17: to recognize that they have now been a stateless people

2316
01:51:38,200 --> 01:51:43,639
Speaker 17: for seventy five years. Can you name any country yours,

2317
01:51:43,720 --> 01:51:47,080
Speaker 17: for example, or yours that would be prepared to give

2318
01:51:47,280 --> 01:51:52,439
Speaker 17: fifty five percent, twenty five percent, ten percent of your

2319
01:51:52,560 --> 01:51:54,080
Speaker 17: country to the Palestinians.

2320
01:51:54,640 --> 01:51:55,200
Speaker 3: Of course not.

2321
01:51:56,240 --> 01:52:00,559
Speaker 17: And so the issue was not the existence of Jewstine.

2322
01:52:01,560 --> 01:52:04,400
Speaker 17: They had been there for centuries, and of course they

2323
01:52:04,479 --> 01:52:09,479
Speaker 17: had ties to Palestine and particularly to Jerusalem and other

2324
01:52:09,600 --> 01:52:14,799
Speaker 17: places going back centuries, if not millennia, but the idea

2325
01:52:14,920 --> 01:52:21,720
Speaker 17: of establishing an exclusively Jewish state at the expense of

2326
01:52:21,840 --> 01:52:25,080
Speaker 17: those who are already living there. I think it was

2327
01:52:25,240 --> 01:52:27,720
Speaker 17: right to reject that. And I don't think we can

2328
01:52:28,200 --> 01:52:31,920
Speaker 17: look back now seventy five years later and say, well,

2329
01:52:32,360 --> 01:52:35,479
Speaker 17: you should have accepted losing fifty five percent of your homeland,

2330
01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:37,840
Speaker 17: because you ended up losing seventy eight percent of it.

2331
01:52:37,880 --> 01:52:40,559
Speaker 17: In the addition, the remaining twenty two percent was occupied

2332
01:52:40,600 --> 01:52:45,400
Speaker 17: in nineteen sixty seven. That's not how things work. And

2333
01:52:45,520 --> 01:52:51,320
Speaker 17: I can imagine I can imagine an American rejecting giving

2334
01:52:51,560 --> 01:52:55,120
Speaker 17: ten percent of the United States to the Palestinians. And

2335
01:52:55,439 --> 01:52:58,400
Speaker 17: if that rejection leads to war and you lose half

2336
01:52:58,479 --> 01:53:02,240
Speaker 17: your country, that fifty years from now you're going to say, well,

2337
01:53:02,439 --> 01:53:03,760
Speaker 17: maybe I should have accepted that.

2338
01:53:04,080 --> 01:53:06,880
Speaker 1: So they didn't accept the establishment of an explicitly Jewish

2339
01:53:06,920 --> 01:53:10,120
Speaker 1: state because the inevitable outcome was some version of exactly

2340
01:53:10,240 --> 01:53:13,519
Speaker 1: the apartheid, ethnic cleansing and now out and out genocide

2341
01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:15,920
Speaker 1: that we are seeing play out. This was a point

2342
01:53:15,920 --> 01:53:19,280
Speaker 1: that Norman Finkelstein made quite eloquently talking about the version

2343
01:53:19,400 --> 01:53:21,519
Speaker 1: of nationalism Zionism represents.

2344
01:53:21,960 --> 01:53:25,720
Speaker 10: Most theorists of nationalism say there are two kinds of nationalism.

2345
01:53:26,600 --> 01:53:31,400
Speaker 10: One is a nationalism based on citizenship. You become a citizen,

2346
01:53:31,840 --> 01:53:36,200
Speaker 10: you're integral to the country. That's sometimes called political nationalism.

2347
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:40,280
Speaker 10: And then there's another kind of nationalism, and that says

2348
01:53:40,840 --> 01:53:45,880
Speaker 10: the state should not belong to its citizens, it should

2349
01:53:45,960 --> 01:53:51,600
Speaker 10: belong to an ethnic group. Each ethnic group should have

2350
01:53:52,040 --> 01:53:56,639
Speaker 10: its own state. It's usually called the German romantic idea

2351
01:53:56,720 --> 01:54:05,280
Speaker 10: of nationalism. Zionism is squarely in the Jewish German romantic idea.

2352
01:54:06,120 --> 01:54:09,760
Speaker 10: That was the whole point of Zionism. We don't want

2353
01:54:09,800 --> 01:54:15,400
Speaker 10: to be Buddhists and be one more ethnic minority in Russia.

2354
01:54:16,560 --> 01:54:20,439
Speaker 10: We don't want to become citizens and just become a

2355
01:54:21,320 --> 01:54:31,040
Speaker 10: Jewish people in England or France. We want our own state.

2356
01:54:32,120 --> 01:54:36,040
Speaker 10: Like the no way, let's before we get to the Arabs,

2357
01:54:36,120 --> 01:54:38,000
Speaker 10: let's get let's stick to the Jews for a moment,

2358
01:54:38,600 --> 01:54:43,360
Speaker 10: or the Zionists. We want our own state. And in

2359
01:54:43,600 --> 01:54:51,760
Speaker 10: that concept of wanting your own state, the minority at

2360
01:54:52,080 --> 01:55:00,320
Speaker 10: best lives on sufferance and at worst get expelled. That's

2361
01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:06,600
Speaker 10: the logic of the German Romantic Zionist idea of a state.

2362
01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:08,880
Speaker 10: That's why there's Zionists.

2363
01:55:09,440 --> 01:55:12,320
Speaker 1: So the truth is the desires of the early Zionists,

2364
01:55:12,600 --> 01:55:15,120
Speaker 1: especially after the Holocaust, but even before, given the number

2365
01:55:15,160 --> 01:55:18,840
Speaker 1: of violent Pigrams in Europe, were completely understandable as the

2366
01:55:18,920 --> 01:55:22,160
Speaker 1: cause of black nationalism. A similar nationalist ideology given the

2367
01:55:22,200 --> 01:55:25,320
Speaker 1: horrors of slavery and Jim Crow and other discrimination, also

2368
01:55:25,600 --> 01:55:30,000
Speaker 1: so understandable. But it's also true that though their aspirations

2369
01:55:30,080 --> 01:55:34,280
Speaker 1: were understandable, in reality, Palestine was not a land without

2370
01:55:34,280 --> 01:55:38,960
Speaker 1: a people, and realization of those Zionist aspirations in Palestine

2371
01:55:39,160 --> 01:55:43,680
Speaker 1: required committing grave injustices against the people who were presently

2372
01:55:43,800 --> 01:55:47,160
Speaker 1: living in that land. Now, in order to accept the

2373
01:55:47,360 --> 01:55:49,840
Speaker 1: fairy tale version of history and to accept the current

2374
01:55:49,920 --> 01:55:52,800
Speaker 1: fairy tale version of Israel version Joe Biden seems to

2375
01:55:52,840 --> 01:55:56,520
Speaker 1: believe wholeheartedly in where the Israeli government would never intentionally

2376
01:55:56,560 --> 01:55:59,280
Speaker 1: target civilians, are engaged in apartheid, or have ethnic cleansing

2377
01:55:59,280 --> 01:56:02,640
Speaker 1: as a policy goal. In order to accept those disney

2378
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:06,320
Speaker 1: versions of reality, you got to make a bedrock underlying

2379
01:56:06,360 --> 01:56:11,640
Speaker 1: assumption that Western powers in every instance have good intentions

2380
01:56:12,160 --> 01:56:17,120
Speaker 1: and Palestinians in every instance have bad intentions. Now, oftentimes

2381
01:56:17,200 --> 01:56:20,080
Speaker 1: these assumptions are based in racist world views in which

2382
01:56:20,120 --> 01:56:24,080
Speaker 1: Westerners are inherently civilized and Arabs are inherently barbarians.

2383
01:56:24,480 --> 01:56:25,720
Speaker 4: Net Nyahu hints at.

2384
01:56:25,640 --> 01:56:28,360
Speaker 1: This when he describes their genocidal assault on Gaza as

2385
01:56:28,400 --> 01:56:31,240
Speaker 1: being a conflict between the suns of light and the

2386
01:56:31,320 --> 01:56:35,160
Speaker 1: sense of darkness. Now, this unshakable belief in the goodness

2387
01:56:35,320 --> 01:56:38,600
Speaker 1: of Western powers was evident throughout the debate. In a

2388
01:56:38,760 --> 01:56:42,520
Speaker 1: jaw dropping moment, Destiny reveals himself to be fully captured

2389
01:56:42,560 --> 01:56:46,040
Speaker 1: by an almost religious devotion to that benevolent view of

2390
01:56:46,120 --> 01:56:46,880
Speaker 1: Western powers.

2391
01:56:47,080 --> 01:56:47,640
Speaker 4: Take a listen.

2392
01:56:47,920 --> 01:56:49,760
Speaker 16: It was correctly brought up that I believe that ben

2393
01:56:49,800 --> 01:56:53,480
Speaker 16: Gurion had I think Schlimo Benamine describes it as an

2394
01:56:53,480 --> 01:56:57,720
Speaker 16: obsession with getting validation or support from Western states, Great Britain.

2395
01:56:57,800 --> 01:57:01,200
Speaker 16: And then a couple decades later it complains us who was, yeah,

2396
01:57:01,640 --> 01:57:03,760
Speaker 16: exactly correct, that was one of the major motivators the

2397
01:57:03,800 --> 01:57:06,360
Speaker 16: idea to work with Britain and France on a military

2398
01:57:06,360 --> 01:57:09,960
Speaker 16: operationial stooge. But then the question again, I go back

2399
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:13,000
Speaker 16: to if that is true, if Bengurion, if the early

2400
01:57:13,640 --> 01:57:17,360
Speaker 16: Israel saw themselves as a Western fashion nation, how could

2401
01:57:17,400 --> 01:57:19,440
Speaker 16: we possibly imagine that they would have engaged in the

2402
01:57:19,480 --> 01:57:22,400
Speaker 16: transfer of some four hundred thousand Arabs after accepting the

2403
01:57:22,440 --> 01:57:25,600
Speaker 16: partition plan. Would that not have completely and totally destroyed

2404
01:57:25,600 --> 01:57:27,600
Speaker 16: their legitimacy in the eyes of the entire Western world

2405
01:57:27,600 --> 01:57:30,200
Speaker 16: would not have been how not, if you thought.

2406
01:57:30,360 --> 01:57:33,760
Speaker 1: The US and the UK would object at any point

2407
01:57:33,880 --> 01:57:38,600
Speaker 1: to naked barbarism against Palestinians, then the past several months should.

2408
01:57:38,360 --> 01:57:41,520
Speaker 4: Have thoroughly disabused you of this notion. The idea that.

2409
01:57:41,600 --> 01:57:44,520
Speaker 1: Israel and his allies are always operating with good intentions

2410
01:57:44,720 --> 01:57:48,120
Speaker 1: is also incredibly imparent in how incredulous Benny Morris and

2411
01:57:48,200 --> 01:57:52,640
Speaker 1: Desny both are at the notion Israel would intentionally target civilians.

2412
01:57:53,000 --> 01:57:54,960
Speaker 1: Now you would be very familiar with the arguments that

2413
01:57:55,040 --> 01:57:58,000
Speaker 1: were proffered in that section of the debate. Essentially, both

2414
01:57:58,040 --> 01:58:00,600
Speaker 1: of them argued that if civilians are killed, then they

2415
01:58:00,880 --> 01:58:02,840
Speaker 1: must have been human shields, or at the very worst,

2416
01:58:02,880 --> 01:58:05,440
Speaker 1: they were regrettably killed due to the one off actions

2417
01:58:05,480 --> 01:58:09,200
Speaker 1: of a few rogue soldiers. Such atrocities could not possibly

2418
01:58:09,640 --> 01:58:14,160
Speaker 1: be the result of official Israeli government policy. Of course,

2419
01:58:14,400 --> 01:58:17,280
Speaker 1: a look at the evidence renders this view absurd. After

2420
01:58:17,360 --> 01:58:20,520
Speaker 1: October seventh, the Israeli Defense Minister announced to the world

2421
01:58:20,880 --> 01:58:24,120
Speaker 1: a top down policy of complete siege of the civilian population.

2422
01:58:24,880 --> 01:58:28,120
Speaker 1: That collective punishment has continued to a sufficient extent that

2423
01:58:28,240 --> 01:58:32,160
Speaker 1: children are now literally starving to death and Gaza is

2424
01:58:32,200 --> 01:58:34,360
Speaker 1: now the site of the worst levels of acute hunger

2425
01:58:34,480 --> 01:58:39,600
Speaker 1: in the entire world. This in and of itself disproves

2426
01:58:39,640 --> 01:58:44,360
Speaker 1: the fantasy the Israeli governments would never target civilians intentionally.

2427
01:58:44,960 --> 01:58:48,120
Speaker 1: That's to say nothing of the vast destruction and debthol,

2428
01:58:48,160 --> 01:58:51,240
Speaker 1: which is inconsistent with the view that the problem civilian

2429
01:58:51,320 --> 01:58:54,560
Speaker 1: casualties is simply the result of a few bad apples.

2430
01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:59,560
Speaker 1: The entire Gaza Strip population has clearly been targeted now

2431
01:58:59,640 --> 01:59:02,400
Speaker 1: in the Bait, Mouen Rabani does a phenomenal job of

2432
01:59:02,520 --> 01:59:05,560
Speaker 1: identifying this massive blind spot and hypocrisy when it comes

2433
01:59:05,600 --> 01:59:09,560
Speaker 1: to judgment of Israeli or Western actions versus Palestinian actions.

2434
01:59:09,880 --> 01:59:12,920
Speaker 1: This particular section has to do with documented Israeli atrocities

2435
01:59:12,960 --> 01:59:14,800
Speaker 1: committed against civilians in Lebanon.

2436
01:59:15,080 --> 01:59:15,640
Speaker 4: Take a listen.

2437
01:59:15,840 --> 01:59:18,600
Speaker 16: It sounds coold to say it, but war is tragic

2438
01:59:18,680 --> 01:59:21,520
Speaker 16: and civilians die. There is no war that this has

2439
01:59:21,600 --> 01:59:24,000
Speaker 16: not happened in in the history of all of humankind.

2440
01:59:24,480 --> 01:59:27,800
Speaker 16: The statement that Israel might take care not to target

2441
01:59:27,880 --> 01:59:30,840
Speaker 16: civilians is not incompatible with a diary entry from someone

2442
01:59:30,880 --> 01:59:33,240
Speaker 16: who said they saw civilians getting killed. I think that

2443
01:59:33,360 --> 01:59:35,200
Speaker 16: sometimes we do a lot of weird games when we

2444
01:59:35,280 --> 01:59:38,080
Speaker 16: talk about international umanitarian law or laws that govern conflict,

2445
01:59:38,120 --> 01:59:41,120
Speaker 16: where we say things like civilians dying is a war crime,

2446
01:59:41,280 --> 01:59:44,560
Speaker 16: or civilian homes or hospitals getting destroyed as necessarily a

2447
01:59:44,680 --> 01:59:48,200
Speaker 16: war crime, or as necessarily somebody intentionally targeting civilians without

2448
01:59:48,400 --> 01:59:51,760
Speaker 16: making distinctions between military targets or civilian ones. I think

2449
01:59:51,800 --> 01:59:54,360
Speaker 16: that when we analyze different attacks, when we talk about

2450
01:59:54,360 --> 01:59:56,600
Speaker 16: the conduct of a military I think it's important to understand,

2451
01:59:57,640 --> 02:00:01,040
Speaker 16: like prospectively, from the unit of analysis of the actual

2452
02:00:01,480 --> 02:00:04,040
Speaker 16: military committing the acts, what's happening and what are the

2453
02:00:04,040 --> 02:00:07,960
Speaker 16: decisions being made, rather than just saying retrospectively, oh, well,

2454
02:00:08,160 --> 02:00:10,280
Speaker 16: a lot of civilians died, not very many, you know,

2455
02:00:10,440 --> 02:00:13,640
Speaker 16: military people died comparatively speaking, so it must have been

2456
02:00:13,680 --> 02:00:17,800
Speaker 16: war crimes, especially when you've got another side all fastward

2457
02:00:17,840 --> 02:00:21,520
Speaker 16: to Hamas that intentionally attempts to induce those same civilian numbers,

2458
02:00:21,560 --> 02:00:24,200
Speaker 16: because Hamas is guilty of any war crime that you

2459
02:00:24,240 --> 02:00:26,440
Speaker 16: would potentially accuse. And this is according to the Amnesty

2460
02:00:26,480 --> 02:00:29,240
Speaker 16: International people that norm loves to cite. Hamas is guilty

2461
02:00:29,280 --> 02:00:30,960
Speaker 16: of all of these same war crimes of them, failing

2462
02:00:30,960 --> 02:00:33,200
Speaker 16: to take care of the civilian population, of them essentially

2463
02:00:33,280 --> 02:00:34,640
Speaker 16: utilizing human shields.

2464
02:00:34,320 --> 02:00:38,040
Speaker 3: To try to fire rockets free from attacks. Essentially.

2465
02:00:38,120 --> 02:00:41,360
Speaker 16: Yes, I'm just saying that essentially in terms of how

2466
02:00:41,400 --> 02:00:43,600
Speaker 16: international law defines them, not how Ambesty International defines them.

2467
02:00:43,640 --> 02:00:46,120
Speaker 16: But AMSCY International describes times of human shielding, but they

2468
02:00:46,160 --> 02:00:48,400
Speaker 16: don't actually apply the correct international legal standard.

2469
02:00:49,000 --> 02:00:53,920
Speaker 9: I know, absolutely, but I absolutely have I absolutely I think.

2470
02:00:54,440 --> 02:00:56,800
Speaker 9: But I'm just saying I'm just saying, I'm just saying,

2471
02:00:57,040 --> 02:00:59,360
Speaker 9: believe it or not normal. The entire Geneva convections is

2472
02:00:59,400 --> 02:01:00,000
Speaker 9: all on wikipedi.

2473
02:01:00,040 --> 02:01:01,040
Speaker 3: It's a wonderful lives, you know.

2474
02:01:01,160 --> 02:01:02,400
Speaker 16: But I'm just saying, I'm just saying that on the

2475
02:01:02,440 --> 02:01:04,840
Speaker 16: Hummas side, if there's an attempt to induce this type

2476
02:01:04,840 --> 02:01:07,320
Speaker 16: of military activity, attempt to induce civilian harm, that is

2477
02:01:07,360 --> 02:01:09,120
Speaker 16: not just enough to say, like, well, here's a diary

2478
02:01:09,320 --> 02:01:10,760
Speaker 16: entry where a guy talks about how tracktic.

2479
02:01:10,880 --> 02:01:13,800
Speaker 17: I think the problem. I think the problem with with

2480
02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:17,800
Speaker 17: your statement is that if you go back and listen

2481
02:01:17,880 --> 02:01:20,560
Speaker 17: to it, the first part of it is war as hell.

2482
02:01:21,400 --> 02:01:25,240
Speaker 17: Civilians die. It's it's a fact of life. And you

2483
02:01:25,360 --> 02:01:28,000
Speaker 17: state that in a very factual matter. Then when you

2484
02:01:28,080 --> 02:01:32,480
Speaker 17: start talking about Hamas, all of a sudden, you've discovered morality,

2485
02:01:33,240 --> 02:01:35,920
Speaker 17: and you've discovered condemnation, and you've discovered intent.

2486
02:01:36,240 --> 02:01:39,160
Speaker 1: Ween absolutely bodied him there. When it's a mass, the

2487
02:01:39,240 --> 02:01:43,000
Speaker 1: bad intent is assumed. Destiny has zero trouble calling their

2488
02:01:43,040 --> 02:01:46,720
Speaker 1: actions war crimes when it's Israel or as Hell, and

2489
02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:49,120
Speaker 1: the default assumption is that they were trying to achieve

2490
02:01:49,240 --> 02:01:52,440
Speaker 1: legitimate military objectives and the civilians just got in the way.

2491
02:01:53,000 --> 02:01:55,440
Speaker 1: But double standards and hipocricy are not the only way

2492
02:01:55,640 --> 02:01:58,320
Speaker 1: of denying Israel as committing war crimes. When left with

2493
02:01:58,480 --> 02:02:02,320
Speaker 1: no other options, one can simply deny basic reality. Here

2494
02:02:02,400 --> 02:02:05,440
Speaker 1: is Benny Morris resorting to this tactic when confronted with

2495
02:02:05,520 --> 02:02:07,120
Speaker 1: the starvation of Palestinians.

2496
02:02:07,360 --> 02:02:12,360
Speaker 10: As today one quarter of the population of Gaza is starving.

2497
02:02:12,520 --> 02:02:16,840
Speaker 10: That means five hundred thousand children are starving or on

2498
02:02:17,000 --> 02:02:18,080
Speaker 10: the verge of famine.

2499
02:02:18,960 --> 02:02:22,120
Speaker 18: It keeps saying, on the vergil, I have I've not seen.

2500
02:02:22,760 --> 02:02:26,280
Speaker 11: I have not seen one Palestinian die of starvation in

2501
02:02:26,400 --> 02:02:27,280
Speaker 11: these last four months.

2502
02:02:29,640 --> 02:02:30,160
Speaker 18: On the verge.

2503
02:02:30,200 --> 02:02:32,320
Speaker 17: They have been documented cases I haven't seen.

2504
02:02:32,760 --> 02:02:34,800
Speaker 16: Al Jazeera said six and the day before that they

2505
02:02:34,840 --> 02:02:37,680
Speaker 16: said too, So those are the two that.

2506
02:02:37,840 --> 02:02:39,840
Speaker 18: Number probably dies in Israel starvational.

2507
02:02:40,520 --> 02:02:42,040
Speaker 17: I don't think there's famine in Israel.

2508
02:02:42,160 --> 02:02:45,360
Speaker 18: There isn't. There isn't in the Gaza strip either. It's

2509
02:02:45,400 --> 02:02:47,320
Speaker 18: something which is produced for.

2510
02:02:47,360 --> 02:02:52,680
Speaker 17: The Western There are infants dying due to a engineered

2511
02:02:53,120 --> 02:02:55,040
Speaker 17: lack of access to food.

2512
02:02:54,800 --> 02:02:58,600
Speaker 18: And engineered I think the must stop shooting perhaps.

2513
02:02:58,440 --> 02:03:01,880
Speaker 17: Or as you say, I said engineered, I think.

2514
02:03:02,680 --> 02:03:05,440
Speaker 10: I mun standing excuse me, human Rights Watch code that

2515
02:03:05,560 --> 02:03:08,520
Speaker 10: using starvation as a weapon, that's called engineering.

2516
02:03:08,800 --> 02:03:11,600
Speaker 1: Benny Mar's claim there, I have not seen one Palestinian

2517
02:03:11,840 --> 02:03:15,040
Speaker 1: die of starvation. Maybe you need to spend some more

2518
02:03:15,040 --> 02:03:17,600
Speaker 1: time on TikTok where you might get actually information versus

2519
02:03:17,680 --> 02:03:21,240
Speaker 1: whatever propaganda networks you are currently being fed from. Yes,

2520
02:03:21,880 --> 02:03:26,440
Speaker 1: Palestinian children and infants are dying of starvation. Yes, it

2521
02:03:26,560 --> 02:03:31,400
Speaker 1: is because of an intentional series of Israeli policies. In fact, Oxfam,

2522
02:03:31,560 --> 02:03:34,560
Speaker 1: as we discussed before, just released a new report detailing

2523
02:03:34,600 --> 02:03:38,760
Speaker 1: the many methods that Israel's using to intentionally starve Palestinians.

2524
02:03:39,080 --> 02:03:43,400
Speaker 1: That includes blocking it entirely, using an arbitrarily bureaucratic and

2525
02:03:43,480 --> 02:03:47,400
Speaker 1: restrictive process to block the aid indiscriminately targeting civilians, including

2526
02:03:47,440 --> 02:03:51,640
Speaker 1: aid workers, rendering distribution impossible. In the face of these

2527
02:03:51,720 --> 02:03:55,920
Speaker 1: undeniable facts, which are too awful to defend without resorting

2528
02:03:55,960 --> 02:03:59,520
Speaker 1: to outright Nazi rhetoric, the only option left is just

2529
02:03:59,640 --> 02:04:02,680
Speaker 1: to flat out DENI reality. They're not o their choice

2530
02:04:02,800 --> 02:04:05,880
Speaker 1: if you're committed to painting Israel as a moral actor.

2531
02:04:06,600 --> 02:04:08,680
Speaker 1: For his part, Desty was inclined to pull from the

2532
02:04:08,880 --> 02:04:11,640
Speaker 1: debate bro playbook in order to distract an attempt to

2533
02:04:11,680 --> 02:04:14,400
Speaker 1: put Norm and Moeen both on the defensive. One of

2534
02:04:14,480 --> 02:04:17,280
Speaker 1: these tactics was on display as the debate participants argued

2535
02:04:17,320 --> 02:04:20,640
Speaker 1: over whether or not Israel is in fact committing genocide.

2536
02:04:21,040 --> 02:04:23,600
Speaker 1: Now in this section, Destney attempted to throw up a

2537
02:04:23,640 --> 02:04:26,480
Speaker 1: smoke screen of complexity to number one, try to make

2538
02:04:26,520 --> 02:04:29,720
Speaker 1: it appear as if Norm's correct interpretation of the ICJ

2539
02:04:29,880 --> 02:04:34,080
Speaker 1: finding was wrong, thereby dodging the actual implication of that

2540
02:04:34,240 --> 02:04:37,640
Speaker 1: International court's ruling that the South African case alleging genocide

2541
02:04:37,880 --> 02:04:41,400
Speaker 1: was in fact plausible. And two, in order to make

2542
02:04:41,440 --> 02:04:45,160
Speaker 1: the question of genocide seem so complex and technical that

2543
02:04:45,320 --> 02:04:48,320
Speaker 1: no layperson could possibly understand it, and you're a fool

2544
02:04:48,480 --> 02:04:50,960
Speaker 1: to even try. You also get to enjoy some of

2545
02:04:51,080 --> 02:04:54,200
Speaker 1: Norm's unbridled contempt for destiny in this exchange.

2546
02:04:54,360 --> 02:04:55,120
Speaker 4: Take a look to.

2547
02:04:55,320 --> 02:04:59,120
Speaker 10: Even make it to plausible.

2548
02:05:00,040 --> 02:05:03,240
Speaker 3: Out with it is absolutely not dead.

2549
02:05:03,800 --> 02:05:08,080
Speaker 10: Mister, Please don't teach me about the English language.

2550
02:05:08,560 --> 02:05:10,080
Speaker 9: So the declarations judge.

2551
02:05:13,120 --> 02:05:15,960
Speaker 10: In the present phase qualifying the Court is.

2552
02:05:16,000 --> 02:05:18,200
Speaker 16: Not asked at this present phase of the proceedings to

2553
02:05:18,280 --> 02:05:21,879
Speaker 16: determine whether South Africa's allegations of genocide are well founded.

2554
02:05:22,240 --> 02:05:25,880
Speaker 3: They're not well founded. They're not even well founded. You

2555
02:05:25,920 --> 02:05:28,640
Speaker 3: said that plausible was a high standard. It is absolutely not.

2556
02:05:29,680 --> 02:05:31,840
Speaker 16: It is a misrepresentation of the strength of the case

2557
02:05:31,840 --> 02:05:34,080
Speaker 16: against Israel, just like the majority of the quotes they

2558
02:05:34,120 --> 02:05:35,800
Speaker 16: have in this case are and also you said it

2559
02:05:35,840 --> 02:05:37,720
Speaker 16: was an extremely well founded case. They spend like one

2560
02:05:37,880 --> 02:05:40,360
Speaker 16: fourth of all of the quotations, some even pulled from

2561
02:05:40,400 --> 02:05:43,440
Speaker 16: the Goldstone Report that try to that actually deal with

2562
02:05:43,520 --> 02:05:46,280
Speaker 16: the intent part, which is by the way, I think

2563
02:05:46,320 --> 02:05:47,600
Speaker 16: you guys, I don't know if you use the phrase

2564
02:05:47,600 --> 02:05:50,240
Speaker 16: of the dolo specialist, that the intentional part of genocide,

2565
02:05:50,800 --> 02:05:53,960
Speaker 16: the I think it's I think it's called dolo specialist.

2566
02:05:53,960 --> 02:05:56,000
Speaker 16: It is the most important part of genocide, which is

2567
02:05:56,040 --> 02:05:58,959
Speaker 16: proving the special there's a highly special intent to commit genocide.

2568
02:05:59,040 --> 02:05:59,960
Speaker 3: It's possible in Israel.

2569
02:06:00,120 --> 02:06:01,160
Speaker 10: That's men's thralium.

2570
02:06:01,600 --> 02:06:05,400
Speaker 16: No, the men's yes. I understand the state of mind.

2571
02:06:05,440 --> 02:06:08,480
Speaker 16: But for genocide there is it's dulles specialist. It's a

2572
02:06:08,600 --> 02:06:09,600
Speaker 16: highly special intent.

2573
02:06:09,800 --> 02:06:13,200
Speaker 1: Did you read the case, Oh, it's a highly special intent.

2574
02:06:13,320 --> 02:06:16,520
Speaker 1: Dulus specialis. If you don't know this obscure legal term,

2575
02:06:16,560 --> 02:06:19,760
Speaker 1: then apparently you can't possibly understand the concept of genocide.

2576
02:06:20,160 --> 02:06:22,400
Speaker 1: It's a neat way for Destiny to dismiss the targeting

2577
02:06:22,440 --> 02:06:24,920
Speaker 1: of civilians, the collective punishment that direct quotes of high

2578
02:06:24,960 --> 02:06:28,919
Speaker 1: level Israeli officials admitting their genocidal intent, because only Destiny

2579
02:06:28,960 --> 02:06:31,600
Speaker 1: at the table possesses this super special knowledge, and so

2580
02:06:31,800 --> 02:06:34,680
Speaker 1: only he is qualified to judge whether Israel has in

2581
02:06:34,760 --> 02:06:37,960
Speaker 1: fact met the bar of this highly special intent. Now,

2582
02:06:38,040 --> 02:06:41,080
Speaker 1: as our friend Jegor details on Twitter, there is nothing

2583
02:06:41,160 --> 02:06:44,840
Speaker 1: magical about the Latin legal term dulus specialis. It just

2584
02:06:44,960 --> 02:06:49,000
Speaker 1: means specific intent. In other words, you can't accidentally do

2585
02:06:49,080 --> 02:06:51,800
Speaker 1: a genocide. You got to have specific intent, something that

2586
02:06:51,960 --> 02:06:54,640
Speaker 1: Norm and Ween clearly demonstrate in their comments that they

2587
02:06:54,920 --> 02:06:59,000
Speaker 1: fully understand. Furthermore, there is actually debate for what it's

2588
02:06:59,040 --> 02:07:02,000
Speaker 1: worth in the international law community about how such intent

2589
02:07:02,120 --> 02:07:05,920
Speaker 1: can be established, Since usually usually governments do not go

2590
02:07:06,040 --> 02:07:09,480
Speaker 1: around declaring they are doing a genocide. Many scholars argue

2591
02:07:09,520 --> 02:07:13,320
Speaker 1: that as a result, circumstantial evidence could suffice for proving

2592
02:07:13,440 --> 02:07:17,120
Speaker 1: this specific intent to genocide or Dolus specialists if we're

2593
02:07:17,160 --> 02:07:20,000
Speaker 1: being fancy. In the case of Israel, however, we don't

2594
02:07:20,040 --> 02:07:23,080
Speaker 1: really have this problem since everyone from bb to President

2595
02:07:23,160 --> 02:07:25,560
Speaker 1: Herzog to a defense minister, to a wide variety of

2596
02:07:25,600 --> 02:07:28,600
Speaker 1: war cabinet ministers and ruling party members have been happy

2597
02:07:28,840 --> 02:07:33,240
Speaker 1: to give quotes elucidating their genocidal intent as South Africa

2598
02:07:33,480 --> 02:07:37,640
Speaker 1: accurately detailed in their ICJ filing. This assertion of complexity

2599
02:07:37,720 --> 02:07:39,720
Speaker 1: is a go to tactic for Israel defenders, and it's

2600
02:07:39,760 --> 02:07:43,800
Speaker 1: quite effective. Frankly, many a liberal concerned about the humanitarian

2601
02:07:43,920 --> 02:07:46,720
Speaker 1: horror unfolding before their eyes can be shut down in

2602
02:07:46,760 --> 02:07:50,600
Speaker 1: an instant by a simple assertion that the situation's really

2603
02:07:50,640 --> 02:07:53,880
Speaker 1: complex and therefore outside of the understanding of those without

2604
02:07:54,040 --> 02:07:58,720
Speaker 1: encyclopedic knowledge of every twist and turn in the historical record. Now, ironically,

2605
02:07:58,920 --> 02:08:04,240
Speaker 1: Norm Mouween and Benny actually have that encyclopedic expert knowledge

2606
02:08:04,480 --> 02:08:08,040
Speaker 1: of the conflict, which Destiny is himself completely lacking, but

2607
02:08:08,120 --> 02:08:10,839
Speaker 1: the tactic is such a go to that Destiny attempts

2608
02:08:10,880 --> 02:08:14,880
Speaker 1: it anyway, even when confronted with actual legit experts, and

2609
02:08:15,000 --> 02:08:17,480
Speaker 1: of course the history of the technical legal minutia. All

2610
02:08:17,520 --> 02:08:21,160
Speaker 1: these things are of course complex, but the basics are

2611
02:08:21,280 --> 02:08:26,000
Speaker 1: not difficult to understand. Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from their land,

2612
02:08:26,320 --> 02:08:29,800
Speaker 1: they live under occupation and blockade, both of which are illegal.

2613
02:08:30,040 --> 02:08:33,400
Speaker 1: They're currently being slaughtered and starved en mass. You don't

2614
02:08:33,480 --> 02:08:36,320
Speaker 1: need to know what Theodore Hertzel Wroten's diary in eighteen

2615
02:08:36,400 --> 02:08:39,040
Speaker 1: ninety six in order to understand these things, although normal

2616
02:08:39,080 --> 02:08:43,680
Speaker 1: Ween and Benny actually do know such specific details. Relatively,

2617
02:08:43,760 --> 02:08:46,520
Speaker 1: I don't think it's inappropriate for non experts like Destiny

2618
02:08:46,640 --> 02:08:49,120
Speaker 1: or myself for that matter, to have opinions and to

2619
02:08:49,200 --> 02:08:51,160
Speaker 1: voice them and to defend them and to debate them

2620
02:08:51,280 --> 02:08:54,680
Speaker 1: even with experts. I might just recommend a little bit

2621
02:08:54,720 --> 02:08:58,000
Speaker 1: of humility awareness of the bounds of your technical knowledge

2622
02:08:58,040 --> 02:09:01,520
Speaker 1: as compared to legit historians who have spent their entire

2623
02:09:01,720 --> 02:09:06,080
Speaker 1: adult lives studying all of the details. Now, there is

2624
02:09:06,160 --> 02:09:09,400
Speaker 1: one final tactic consistently deployed by Destiny, and Benny in

2625
02:09:09,440 --> 02:09:11,600
Speaker 1: this debate, which is worth illuminating, and that is the

2626
02:09:11,800 --> 02:09:15,720
Speaker 1: inconsistent appeal to international law. Now, when it suits Israelis,

2627
02:09:15,760 --> 02:09:18,560
Speaker 1: such as when discussing the original UN partition.

2628
02:09:18,320 --> 02:09:21,440
Speaker 4: Plan, then international law is everything. It's binding.

2629
02:09:22,080 --> 02:09:24,120
Speaker 1: When it doesn't suit them, such as when being held

2630
02:09:24,160 --> 02:09:27,880
Speaker 1: accountable for illegal settlements and war crimes, it's irrelevant, it's useless.

2631
02:09:27,960 --> 02:09:28,400
Speaker 4: Who cares.

2632
02:09:29,120 --> 02:09:32,160
Speaker 1: This selective appeal to international law came out several times

2633
02:09:32,200 --> 02:09:34,800
Speaker 1: throughout the debate, but perhaps most notably in an exchange

2634
02:09:34,800 --> 02:09:37,880
Speaker 1: between Norm and Benny, in which Norm de cries the

2635
02:09:37,920 --> 02:09:40,880
Speaker 1: illegal blockade of Gaza and Benny replies that the judgment

2636
02:09:40,960 --> 02:09:44,240
Speaker 1: of these international bodies, it's irrelevant, no one cares, and

2637
02:09:44,320 --> 02:09:46,880
Speaker 1: that we should quote, forget the law, take a lesson.

2638
02:09:47,080 --> 02:09:50,640
Speaker 11: They were shooting rockets at Israel for twenty years. Why

2639
02:09:50,720 --> 02:09:52,720
Speaker 11: is that illegal? To blockade Gaza?

2640
02:09:54,800 --> 02:09:56,280
Speaker 18: Why? Why is it illegal?

2641
02:09:56,360 --> 02:09:57,040
Speaker 10: I'll tell you why.

2642
02:09:57,120 --> 02:09:59,880
Speaker 18: You don't draw it your calbury expect.

2643
02:10:00,440 --> 02:10:01,160
Speaker 10: I'll tell you why.

2644
02:10:01,400 --> 02:10:03,960
Speaker 18: Expect that works both.

2645
02:10:07,400 --> 02:10:12,720
Speaker 10: I'll tell you why because every human rights, humanitarian and

2646
02:10:13,000 --> 02:10:18,680
Speaker 10: un organization in the world has said, has said, nobody cares.

2647
02:10:19,400 --> 02:10:22,680
Speaker 10: This is a form of collective punish which is illegal

2648
02:10:22,920 --> 02:10:27,000
Speaker 10: under international you think, you think a block hate.

2649
02:10:27,080 --> 02:10:29,960
Speaker 18: You don't understand the way the world works, and you.

2650
02:10:30,080 --> 02:10:36,280
Speaker 10: Think, and you think confining, because that's the blockade, confining,

2651
02:10:36,720 --> 02:10:40,080
Speaker 10: confining a million children combining.

2652
02:10:39,760 --> 02:10:41,880
Speaker 18: That's the confining.

2653
02:10:42,120 --> 02:10:46,440
Speaker 10: That's a million children in what the Economist called a

2654
02:10:46,560 --> 02:10:54,560
Speaker 10: human rubbish sheep war and support, but International Committee Red

2655
02:10:54,640 --> 02:10:58,440
Speaker 10: Cross called a sinking ship, with the U n. High

2656
02:10:58,440 --> 02:11:03,800
Speaker 10: Commissioner for Human Rights a toxic slum. You think you

2657
02:11:04,600 --> 02:11:10,040
Speaker 10: think under international law, you think it's legitimate. Forget Hey,

2658
02:11:10,840 --> 02:11:12,720
Speaker 10: I know you want to forget the law. It's the

2659
02:11:13,120 --> 02:11:17,560
Speaker 10: thing that every it's what every Israeli fears the most,

2660
02:11:18,400 --> 02:11:24,280
Speaker 10: the law. And Sippy literally said, I studied international law.

2661
02:11:24,600 --> 02:11:28,080
Speaker 10: I oppose international law. Of course you don't want to

2662
02:11:28,120 --> 02:11:32,880
Speaker 10: hear about the law. Okay, So here's the thing. Then

2663
02:11:33,080 --> 02:11:36,800
Speaker 10: don't complain about October seventh if you don't want to.

2664
02:11:37,400 --> 02:11:39,560
Speaker 10: If you want to say, I forget about the law.

2665
02:11:41,240 --> 02:11:46,360
Speaker 10: There is no international humanitarian law. There's no distinction between

2666
02:11:46,480 --> 02:11:52,600
Speaker 10: civilians and combatants. And so now you're doing what Mouen said,

2667
02:11:52,880 --> 02:11:56,720
Speaker 10: You're becoming very selective about the law if you want

2668
02:11:56,800 --> 02:11:57,840
Speaker 10: to forget about the law.

2669
02:11:58,560 --> 02:12:01,680
Speaker 1: So Nor refers there to Mawen had said previously about

2670
02:12:01,720 --> 02:12:04,200
Speaker 1: the selective appeal to international law, and in fact Mawen

2671
02:12:04,360 --> 02:12:07,440
Speaker 1: did sum up this point quite brilliantly and succinctly.

2672
02:12:08,280 --> 02:12:13,360
Speaker 17: If you want to dismiss international law, that's fine, but

2673
02:12:13,440 --> 02:12:17,600
Speaker 17: then you have to do it consistently. You can't set

2674
02:12:17,680 --> 02:12:24,960
Speaker 17: standards for the Palestinians but reject applying those standards to Israel.

2675
02:12:26,560 --> 02:12:28,440
Speaker 17: If we're going to have the law of the jungle,

2676
02:12:29,200 --> 02:12:31,600
Speaker 17: then we can all be beasts, and not only some

2677
02:12:31,760 --> 02:12:35,840
Speaker 17: of us. And I think so it's either that or

2678
02:12:36,440 --> 02:12:41,600
Speaker 17: you have certain agreed standards that are intended to regulate

2679
02:12:41,680 --> 02:12:43,800
Speaker 17: our conduct, all of our conduct.

2680
02:12:43,920 --> 02:12:44,840
Speaker 10: Not just some of us.

2681
02:12:45,120 --> 02:12:48,120
Speaker 4: So does international law matter or do we all live

2682
02:12:48,200 --> 02:12:50,080
Speaker 4: by the law of the jungle? Makes right?

2683
02:12:50,480 --> 02:12:52,240
Speaker 1: It's a good place to wrap up, because that's really

2684
02:12:52,280 --> 02:12:55,440
Speaker 1: the core question being tested right now in the Kaza strip.

2685
02:12:56,040 --> 02:12:59,120
Speaker 1: Can any of the international rules that were set after

2686
02:12:59,200 --> 02:13:02,600
Speaker 1: the horrors of World War II withstand the genocide being

2687
02:13:02,600 --> 02:13:05,480
Speaker 1: committed in front of our eyes, with the direct aid

2688
02:13:05,920 --> 02:13:10,360
Speaker 1: of our country, the world's quote unquote superpower, well, distinctions

2689
02:13:10,360 --> 02:13:13,920
Speaker 1: between civilians and combatants, or prohibitions on war crimes or genocide,

2690
02:13:14,480 --> 02:13:17,760
Speaker 1: Will any of that survive this moment, or will we

2691
02:13:17,920 --> 02:13:22,080
Speaker 1: drop even the pretense of pretending to care about these

2692
02:13:22,160 --> 02:13:25,160
Speaker 1: concepts and leave it, as Mwen says, to the law

2693
02:13:25,200 --> 02:13:28,120
Speaker 1: of the jungle, where we can all be beast because

2694
02:13:28,160 --> 02:13:32,920
Speaker 1: even the propaganda smokescreen carefully erected over decades cannot block

2695
02:13:33,000 --> 02:13:36,040
Speaker 1: the world from seeing the echoes of those World War

2696
02:13:36,080 --> 02:13:41,480
Speaker 1: II atrocities. You cannot see the images of the wasted,

2697
02:13:42,000 --> 02:13:46,640
Speaker 1: starved bodies of Palestinian children without thinking about the Holocaust.

2698
02:13:47,280 --> 02:13:50,800
Speaker 1: You can't witness the utter destruction of Gaza and not

2699
02:13:51,000 --> 02:13:54,920
Speaker 1: think of Dresden or even Hiroshima. You cannot hear the

2700
02:13:55,120 --> 02:13:59,120
Speaker 1: casual public dehumanization of human beings as animals and vermin

2701
02:13:59,680 --> 02:14:03,560
Speaker 1: and not think of Nazi ideology. The wall of Hasbara

2702
02:14:03,640 --> 02:14:06,520
Speaker 1: has crumbled, and we are all left to wrestle with

2703
02:14:06,640 --> 02:14:11,200
Speaker 1: the grave crimes that our leaders are perfectly willing to commit.

2704
02:14:11,840 --> 02:14:13,560
Speaker 1: So Sager, even though, and if you.

2705
02:14:13,560 --> 02:14:16,280
Speaker 2: Want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a

2706
02:14:16,320 --> 02:14:19,680
Speaker 2: premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com. All right, we'll

2707
02:14:19,680 --> 02:14:21,320
Speaker 2: see you guys later. I know it was a long one,

2708
02:14:21,360 --> 02:14:22,760
Speaker 2: but we'll get it to you as long as we can.