WEBVTT - Ep. 009 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:03.720 Welcome everyone. This is the Meat Eater podcast. We're gonna 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:08.319 talk about binoculars, which I'd like to call knockers, and 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.520 rifle scopes an all manner of hunting optics. We're joined 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:21.360 right now by joined by or with no joined by 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:27.560 Doug dern Douglas dern Um and we're on Doug's family farm, Kasinovia, Wisconsin, 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.159 the Fame Driftless Area. This is the second installment of 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:35.080 the Meat Eater podcasts ever been recorded. These have been 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:41.159 recorded in many states, now many states. You get a 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.479 lot of You get a lot of states for your 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:47.120 buck on this show. And y honest you tell us 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.480 multiple countries as well, multiple countries. Also by y Honest 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.320 You tell us. Um, I can't mention Yann's name without 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:56.120 encouraging you to go to his website and by one 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.440 of his t shirts. Thank you hunting dot Com twenty 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:05.800 four bucks in stock now, also by Mark Bordman and 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.840 Paul Nice from Vortex Optics. I wish we had the 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:14.679 technological capability to broadcast live and take calls. I hate 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:16.320 that kind of thing, but it would be good or 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:20.280 Knox people call in and ask optics questions, you know. 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:26.600 Instead we will think of optics questions and the first 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:27.959 one I want to ask, and this is not this 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:29.720 isn't the main thing I want to focus on. But 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.560 we just we hunted turkeys this morning. Do you guys 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.479 sell a lot of scopes to guys that hunt turkeys? 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:36.840 I just don't get it. It's it's I know, I 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.040 shouldn't say that because you guys are in the scope business, 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:43.920 but I don't see. But other than it saves people 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:48.920 from themselves and it makes them aim, I don't see. 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.320 I don't see. Is that a big part of your business. No, No, 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:54.240 that's truly not. We we sell a lot of red 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.200 dot sites, and the red dot sites are probably you know, 0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:59.480 a little bit kilm, and I think guys will use those. 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:03.000 But you know is you know, it's just it's a 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:06.520 it's a style of sight that projects an LED onto 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.200 a curve screen and so you simply see a red dot, 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.280 a single dot. It's just used it, you know, short 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:18.840 range typically it doesn't. No, No, it's not a projected image. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.280 Is you view through it, it seems as though it 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:24.639 floats out in front of the gun, but it's it's 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.800 not a projected image like a laser would be for example, 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:30.800 and what do you call like, just explain that difference. 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:35.520 Where you see where you got a light that shoots out, Yeah, 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:37.880 that would be that would be a laser. And the 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.440 difference would be if you if you look in many 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:44.320 fish and game regulations, for example, a projected light is 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:48.160 typically illegal to use. And that's you know, that is 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:50.920 a laser beam. So if you if you were using that, 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:53.520 say on a turkey, and you look, there would actually 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:58.160 be a red dot on the on the dude next you. 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.240 Someone else could see it just as well. Right, Mostly 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:04.200 that stuff just probably found on like the pistols and stuff, 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.200 right for defense, Yeah, it is. It's used on handguns 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.359 a lot. You know. The the advantage to red dot 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.160 site it's it's very quick and easy to use. You know, 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.160 they're not you don't have to line anything up um 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.839 the way that they operate their their parallax free. So 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.760 when I'm talking about the actual laser one, where would 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:27.200 you find that one? Ah? Yeah, handguns? Defensive guns, that's right. 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:31.160 It's not like military and Lawford for for hunting stuff. Right. 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.480 So people will call up Vortex though, We'll be like, 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:41.000 hey man, I wanna a red dot site for shooting turkeys. Yeah, 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.040 they might say I want a red dot site from 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.920 my shotgun, you know, but it's something that you know, 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.600 turkeys would be one of the primary application you can 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:51.480 side in with one of those, right. Yeah, So you're 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:53.480 going like because we bet we were just trying to 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.920 explain it to their Dave, like, I think enough guy, 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:00.840 guys don't do enough of this. Turkey hunters don't do 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:06.280 enough of shooting the shotgun. And you're just like, if 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.000 you're gonna be serious about not if you're gonna be 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.320 serious if you're gonna go turkey hunting, I think you 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.240 just at some point you gotta take a piece of 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:15.600 paper out there, put a magic marker circle on it 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.080 and just see what happens, because you will see where 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:24.159 it is just always the pattern could be that if 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.080 you were to make the center of the pattern at 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.560 forty yards, I think could be I don't know more 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:33.680 inches consistently left right, high low. If you had that, 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:35.600 you didn't want to always remember I was just reading 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.039 this thing by this guy the other day. He says, 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.640 my whole life, I've been aiming high left on turkeys. 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:43.920 Because he's you know, you are using too. They're just 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.520 using a you know, a shotgun with an elevated rib 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.720 and a bead and they're they're just trying to basically 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.400 center that beat on top of the rib. But you know, 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:53.440 you move your head a little bit one way or 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.640 the other, and you know that pattern throws exactly differently. 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:58.680 So yeah, you could actually get like, if you want 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.919 to start shooting turkeys at seve in the eight yards, 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.200 like you know, with the right chokes and right loads, 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:06.760 people can do. Imagine that that red dot site that 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.160 would be helpful because you can you can turn that 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.080 thing in. You know, it would definitely become an advantage 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.520 of that point. And you talk about, you know, patterning 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.640 your shotgun. If you really want to figure out, you know, 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:19.840 what what the loads are doing that you're pushing through 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.159 your shotgun, you know red dots, that would be you know, 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.880 fantastic for that because you're gonna maintain that consistent point 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.440 errors exactly exactly and you might find, yeah, like your 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:33.479 high left or its stringing a particular way, and you 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:35.880 might find that you want to change the turkey load 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:37.960 that you've been using, you know, and find a better one. 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.560 We have the other day me and you're honest where 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.720 we had some very inexperience first time turkey hunters, very 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:48.040 inexperienced shooters and experienced hunters going turkey hunt. We're like, well, 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:53.920 let's gonna shoot a couple of targets. I'm telling you what. Yeah, 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.559 the first shot on a piece of paper, you would 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:02.200 this guy would have never killed that turkey. No, I 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.200 would have missed him clean. You would have been like, 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:08.279 what in the world happened? You know? It wound up 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:12.159 being user air. And what's funny is at one point 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.560 he had he didn't know, but he had the gun 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:16.320 on safe and he thought he had it on like 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.600 he got up and never put it on fire. So 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:23.800 which is instructive because when he pulled that triggar that 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:28.240 gun Joe way to the right, it never went off, 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:30.440 you know. And that's like I remember Yeaest was talking 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.080 about a tricker. You just tell you give someone a shell, 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.280 it's no good. No, you give him a rifle with 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.120 with or without, you know, cartridge in the chamber that 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:42.839 was ready to go when it's not ready to go. Yeah, 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:44.360 and you just kind of go through a couple with 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:46.440 a couple without, and you know, pretty soon you don't 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:48.480 know what's gonna you just base our hand today rifle. 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.359 You are treating it as it's live and you're you 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:53.320 need to aim at the target and squeeze the trigger 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:58.040 and you'll quickly see who flinches and he does who's 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.800 the I see with myself, I've been shooting my entire life. 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:03.880 But I'll see now and then I'll have something like 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.320 that happened, and I'll be like, I clearly moved that. 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.840 I clearly moved that chakraun and it didn't go bang 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.400 because I whatever. You know, you if you shoot enough, 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.840 you you generally know to some extent you know if 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.520 you pulled that shot a little bit. But that's where 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:21.360 I can see the red dot thing is we were 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.720 trying to because we had a guy today, UM hit 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:25.880 a turkey that fell down and got it ran away. 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.680 I think it's okay to name names. No one's gonna know. 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:35.600 I mean, all right, Doug's best during best well, Doug's protegee, 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:47.280 d protege doctor protegee. UM doesn't have a huge the 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.480 great guy doesn't have a huge technical interest in hunting 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.640 equipment and gear and whatnot. Roll to turkey and UM, 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.200 I wonder like, were the red dot if you would 0:07:56.200 --> 0:08:01.160 have been being like, you know, one thing, you know, 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.640 you think you think about when you when you aim 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.240 for a fine spot, and that you know, that does 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.160 definitely increase that tendency to pick a spot and aim 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.040 for and on a turkey course, guy is gonna center 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:12.840 that up on the head and the neck. And but 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.480 just having that small dot, you know, I think it 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:19.560 would make a guy maybe concentrated a little more on that. Um. 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.800 The other kind of anything about the red dots is 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.360 you know, when you look, you have a small window 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.040 to look through that's about an inch square, so and 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.360 it's it's kind of a neat thing wherever that you 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:33.000 can see the dot and you can move your head 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.680 around from side to side and up and down and 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:39.600 and the because the device is parallax free, as long 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:43.080 as you see the dot visually, whether it's down the 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.880 corner of the right corner, you'd think it would drift, 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.640 but it doesn't. It stays constant to the image. And 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:50.280 so all you have to you know, as as soon 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:52.360 as you pick that dot up in that field of 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.000 view and it's on targeted, you're you know, you're good 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.720 to shoot, even if it's not centered in the window. 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.000 It's so they're you know, they're quick and they're friendly 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.000 to you. Explain parallax. That's one of the the things I 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.760 was going to say needs to be I never actually 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:09.240 understood parallax till I kind of understood it. But when 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:10.960 did we spent I spent a long time on the 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:15.400 phone call my own analogy. We could probably spend a 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.559 whole hour just talking about So we don't want to, 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:21.360 we don't want to, but but parallaxes, you know, it's 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.800 it's the it's the shift of that radical or that 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:25.840 point of aim on the target. And depending on where 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:30.040 the focuses are the the device or set at that 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.840 that point of aim can move around on the target 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:38.120 at different distances. And so you know, it leads to inaccuracy. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.160 Let me let me just let me stop going side 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.120 in the state like to to to the to the listener. 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:44.800 Imagine that you're looking at you're looking at the rifle 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.120 scope and you got the cross air center on the 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:53.320 bull's eye something that had that's not parallax adjusted. You 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:57.960 could move your eye around so you got the crosstairs 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.360 or of the bull's eye. You could move your eye 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:02.480 around still keeping your eye looking through the scope, you 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.480 can move your eye around and there would be a 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:09.960 perhaps perceptible maybe inperceptible to you, but the cross hair 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.320 will have some movement. Yeah, it will be. It will 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.360 appear almost to just to float around and move depending 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.199 on where the eye is behind the And when people 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.600 talk about like for that reason when people talk about 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.040 consistently shoulder and you're gunn and doing everything the same 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.400 way all the time, is if you bring your face 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.640 you could feasibly sight your gun in. Then bring your 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:31.839 faith to the to your rifle and do your cheek 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.640 well and look through the scope and you might be 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.079 different than you normally are, but still look like you're 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:41.240 dead nuts, but you're not because and so parallax is 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.080 a thing that can fix that. And I'll talk about 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.360 like fifty yards, hundred yards, rim fire all that stuff. Yeah, 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.839 there's you know, parallax. Depending on where an optic is 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:52.679 is set at when it's assembled or some of them 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.440 have adjustable lenses that that can be adjusted. They'll be 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.480 set for a particular distance. So in a big game 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.640 hunting scope that's that's non adjustable. Typically they would be 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.679 said at a hundred yards distance. As you focus on 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.560 something closer further than a hundred you can see some 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:12.600 of that parallax movement. Some rifle scopes have adjustments, either 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.240 an an adjustable objective out on the far end of 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.640 the scope or a side focus. You guys make anything 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.320 that doesn't we make. We make both. We do both. 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.040 The advantage is to a you know, a scope that 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.680 does not have any sort of adjustment is typically they're 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.240 they're simpler, they're less expensive for a lot of guys. 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:30.960 You know, a guy deer hunting in this country here, 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.200 for example, you know you're probably not gonna shoot much 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.560 beyond two d yards that it doesn't come into play 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.319 as far as hunting accuracy. You're you're not going to 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:43.079 get enough shift to you know, to miss the lethal 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:45.960 zone on a deer. If a if a rifle scope, 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:49.079 a magnified optic is going to have a parallax adjustment 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:53.080 on it of some fashion, it'll generally not always be 0:11:53.120 --> 0:12:00.400 a scope that's ten power or more, just because that 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.640 that parallax becomes more of a factor chat greater distances. 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.960 In a room fire scope, we'll have a fixed yeah, 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.559 might have what you can imagine on a rampire scope. 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.960 Of courses you're shooting shorter distances. So a typical rim 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.679 fire range might be twenty five out to fifty yards 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.000 or so. And so when we we have a couple 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.080 that we do and we would set those at fifty yards, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:26.160 and so there's you know, at fifty the right on 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.280 the money is you come in closer than fifty, you 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:29.800 could have a little bit of shift, and as you 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:31.640 go up beyond fifty, you could have a little bit 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.840 of shift too, But it brings it closer to sort 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.920 of the practical range that a rim fire shot at. 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:40.360 You know, when I was trying to explain all this 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.840 stuff in writing, the image that kept the stuck in 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.880 my head is like, let's say you're you're in the 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:53.000 passenger seat of a car good example, good example, and 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.800 you're looking at the spedometer right, and from your perspective 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.000 it looks like you're going thirty five for the knee 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:04.439 those themes that be from the driver's perspective you're going 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:09.360 for just looking at different angles. That's that's not entirely right, 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:10.640 but it kind of is a little know what it 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.000 does because what happens if you if you if you 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.480 were to sort of look at the mechanics of that spenometer, 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.800 and the needle is obviously it's it's come off the 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:23.319 plate of the surface, and that sort of represents that 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.760 that internal gap in in parallax in the scope if 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.320 the scope is focused correctly. If we had that scope 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.559 that was set at a hundred yards and you were 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:35.240 shooting at a hundred yards effectively in your example, the 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.360 needle of the spedometer would be just flush with a 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.920 backplate an incident. You know, no matter which angle you 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.760 looked at, it all the same speed. Yeah, all right, 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.280 so round rifle scopes. Prior to the next rifle scope. 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:52.160 We're gonna take a quick break, alright, So still on 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.960 the subject, rival and yahn jump in, man, jump in 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:56.760 what you want. But I'm gonna jump to And this 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:58.720 one isn't like, this isn't a huge thing because I 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:00.760 don't get a lot of quiet. Like I'm in some 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:04.280 way trying to relay to you guys, questions that we 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:09.120 get from people to watch Mediator or whatever, listen to 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.240 the show, or just people who are looking for advice. Okay, 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:13.000 this is one that doesn't get asked that much. Let's 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:14.920 not spend a ton of time on it. But why 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.840 in the hell did scopes used to have a one 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.880 inch okay the tube. Everything used to be like a 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.080 one inch tube, or maybe I'm wrong, it feels like 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:25.960 it was. No, there's still lots of one inch tubes. 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.800 And now you see like one inch and you can 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.160 pick you can buy a scope like suck X scope 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:37.560 and one inch or thirty millimeter why or larger? Yeah? 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:42.560 Like what like? And there are even some forty millimeter 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.000 tubes out there if you can believe that. So and 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.360 you got to match the tube with your rings that 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:53.080 you purchased. So why why did Why did this is 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.160 just some people can sell more stuff. Well if you 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:57.320 if you go you know, if you track it back 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.160 far enough. It was just as as sort of this 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.920 the scope industry get going and built scopes in the 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:06.640 United States. Traditionally one inch was just sort of adopted 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.600 as as as a common size that companies were using. 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.720 In Europe, thirty millimeter was was adopted. And you know, 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.360 those those two numbers are actually not too far apart. 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.320 They were they were sort of a practical size and 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.960 dimension to sit on top of a of a rifle. 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.360 So we're the crowd shooting at American gis with millions 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:28.320 during world War two. That's a really good question. My 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:32.760 dad never forgave the Germans how many millimeters is one inch? Then? 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:35.720 So I can the gap. It's twenty five point four, 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.400 so it's four point you know, small small difference in there. 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.840 There are some you know, what's really interesting about that question, 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.760 and widely misunderstood, is that there are some there are 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:50.440 some differences between the two. The big misconception about that 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.840 is that the larger tube provides a brighter image to 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:57.800 the shooter, and that's it really isn't true that that 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.120 really has nothing to do with a tube size. So 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.640 what are you getting for what? Well, again, the history 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.000 is that it was just one size used in one 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.720 area another another. But there are some advantage of when 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:09.760 you look at these scopes that go from one inch 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.200 to thirty to thirty four to thirty five, obviously that 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.280 tube is getting bigger and bigger. Seeing a cutout of 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.680 a rifle scope would would help to make this easier. 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:21.560 But inside the scope there's a there's another tube inside there. 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.920 It's called an erector tube, and it can It contains 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:27.520 the zoom lenses and the erecting lenses which which flip 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.960 and invert the image that tube has to move inside 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.240 the main tube of the SCUPE. So it effectively it's 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:37.920 it pivots and moves up and down, and that's controlled 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.360 by the turrets on the scope. And so what a 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.360 larger scope tube can allow, not necessarily, but it can 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.920 allow is a greater swing of movement inside for that 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.000 erector tube. And so for the guys that shoot very 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.560 long distances, they need to be able to adjust for 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.640 a lot of bullet drop at extreme distance. And so 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:00.120 the more internal swing is available in the scope, the 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.600 more the scope can handle that sort of thing. So 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.679 there are some theoretical advantages there. Now I had I 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.720 had no idea. That depends that's what it was. Yeah, 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:14.280 well it's you know, if you think heavier, bigger scope, 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:18.399 bigger rings. Yeah, but it depends on the relationship to 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:20.439 if you think about it between that outer tube and 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:22.600 that inner tube, and if the if the inner tube 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.119 grows at the same rate the outer tube does and 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:26.720 the and the movement is the same, well then there's 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.200 no advantage to it. So that has to you know, 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.520 you need to increase that gap inside what percentage of 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:37.240 what do you guys sell? It's it's because you guys 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.080 kind of like you guys push the thirty You guys 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:43.200 seem to like the totally wrong. No, not necessarily. We 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.080 sell a lot of one issues we have. We we 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.880 have a pretty strong emphasis on long range stuff. That's 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:52.040 a that's a big focus of workings. So in that view, 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.359 those typically are are going to be thirty millimeter or 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.480 thirty four and some of the big tactical scopes we 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.800 do like a long excuse me, like a long range 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.080 scope that will generally start like at thirty millimeter, Like 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.280 that would be like generally your starting point and then 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:10.200 like Paul said, you'd go up into you know, potentially 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.320 a thirty four even a thirty five. Have you guys 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.520 started making we do? Yeah, we do right now. We 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.240 have both thirty four and thirty five millimeter two scopes. 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:22.800 The thirty five is part of our Razor series. That scope, 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:24.879 for example, has been used in some of these really 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:29.199 extreme long range three thirty eight lapooh magnums, you know, 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.560 fifty b mgs where guys are shooting out past two 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.959 thousand yards with it. They're getting tremendous bullet drop, so 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.440 they need a way to compensate for that. We had 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.240 a guy with that scope that had a confirmed engagement 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.480 with a target. Excuse me, and I want to say 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:50.359 two point zero seven miles if I remember correct, like 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.199 an actual like a combat situation. No, it was, it was, 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:54.960 I mean it was. It was. It was like at 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.639 a out of range like you know, but but it 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:00.920 was like you know, a big metal plate point seven miles. 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:07.800 That's a long way out there, two point zero seven miles. Yeah. Wow, 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.880 that's a poke though, But so he used, I want 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.000 to say, and you know, I could be quoting us incorrect, 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:21.920 shooting a something three farms over. What's your head? What's 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.639 your thing doing? Way up there, Doug? I was just 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.480 listening and I thought, you know, I'm gonna start breathing 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.040 heavy because of all this scope talk, and you know, 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.919 starts getting tis get me so excited. So I just 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:38.800 took the microphone away so I could have a little 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:43.280 time with myself over here. Anyways, like shooting before, Doug 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.680 durn Fell sleep be shooting a deer in town from 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.320 the long drive, Well, Doug's place here, I bet you'd 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.160 be pushing it to get a three yard shot. Probably 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:55.720 you might have a spot or two, but you know, 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.040 and so we think about that to two point oh 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:01.399 seven miles. That's in the neighborhood. A third five hundred yards. 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:03.480 I remember while as a kid my brother shot at 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.280 deer hundred seventy yards. Seemed like this infathomable distance. It 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.119 was like unfathoml distance. My father shot a deer on 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:13.200 this farm at a quarter of a mile all the 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.879 way across the forty one shot. So there's there. He 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:17.919 stretched it further than that. That is why he is 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:25.000 known as the quarter mile buck hunter. He's got it 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:29.560 on a hat, all right. Yeah, and he's throwing a 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.200 good optics question you see all the time to keep 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:36.840 him with scopes. We'll switch to knockers later. Yeah. Um, 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:40.320 like all the distinctions, Yeah, I just had a good one. 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.359 Well yeah, the main one being like, no, you go ahead. 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:44.960 I don't want to stop. I don't want to take 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.880 your turn. No go ahead, I'll think of a better one. 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.680 Dog got dog jumping in with the optics question. So 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:58.399 I have vortex optics on my rifles. Say, say I 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.680 run vor Tex optics. Do you want to sound cool 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:06.399 as ship? I run flortex optics on my rifles, and 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:11.640 uh is cooler? I noticed that when you hang out 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:13.919 with Steve Rinella. After a while you start talking like 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:17.879 him and well you know that, No, there's a cadence 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:22.760 and everything. Uh BDC radical. Um, I have a BBC 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:28.280 radical on one of my rifles and I don't on 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:33.800 another one, dear rifle. Both our thirty six is UM 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:38.399 and I like both. I seem to prefer the BDC 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:40.960