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Speaker 1: Welcome everyone. This is the Meat Eater podcast. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about binoculars, which I'd like to call knockers, and

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Speaker 1: rifle scopes an all manner of hunting optics. We're joined

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Speaker 1: right now by joined by or with no joined by

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Speaker 1: Doug dern Douglas dern Um and we're on Doug's family farm, Kasinovia, Wisconsin,

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Speaker 1: the Fame Driftless Area. This is the second installment of

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Speaker 1: the Meat Eater podcasts ever been recorded. These have been

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Speaker 1: recorded in many states, now many states. You get a

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Speaker 1: lot of You get a lot of states for your

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Speaker 1: buck on this show. And y honest you tell us

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Speaker 1: multiple countries as well, multiple countries. Also by y Honest

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Speaker 1: You tell us. Um, I can't mention Yann's name without

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Speaker 1: encouraging you to go to his website and by one

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Speaker 1: of his t shirts. Thank you hunting dot Com twenty

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Speaker 1: four bucks in stock now, also by Mark Bordman and

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Speaker 1: Paul Nice from Vortex Optics. I wish we had the

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Speaker 1: technological capability to broadcast live and take calls. I hate

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing, but it would be good or

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Speaker 1: Knox people call in and ask optics questions, you know.

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Speaker 1: Instead we will think of optics questions and the first

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Speaker 1: one I want to ask, and this is not this

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Speaker 1: isn't the main thing I want to focus on. But

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Speaker 1: we just we hunted turkeys this morning. Do you guys

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Speaker 1: sell a lot of scopes to guys that hunt turkeys?

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Speaker 1: I just don't get it. It's it's I know, I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't say that because you guys are in the scope business,

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Speaker 1: but I don't see. But other than it saves people

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Speaker 1: from themselves and it makes them aim, I don't see.

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Speaker 1: I don't see. Is that a big part of your business. No, No,

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Speaker 1: that's truly not. We we sell a lot of red

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Speaker 1: dot sites, and the red dot sites are probably you know,

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Speaker 1: a little bit kilm, and I think guys will use those.

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Speaker 1: But you know is you know, it's just it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a style of sight that projects an LED onto

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Speaker 1: a curve screen and so you simply see a red dot,

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Speaker 1: a single dot. It's just used it, you know, short

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Speaker 1: range typically it doesn't. No, No, it's not a projected image.

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Speaker 1: Is you view through it, it seems as though it

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Speaker 1: floats out in front of the gun, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: not a projected image like a laser would be for example,

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Speaker 1: and what do you call like, just explain that difference.

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Speaker 1: Where you see where you got a light that shoots out, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would be that would be a laser. And the

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Speaker 1: difference would be if you if you look in many

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Speaker 1: fish and game regulations, for example, a projected light is

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Speaker 1: typically illegal to use. And that's you know, that is

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Speaker 1: a laser beam. So if you if you were using that,

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Speaker 1: say on a turkey, and you look, there would actually

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Speaker 1: be a red dot on the on the dude next you.

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Speaker 1: Someone else could see it just as well. Right, Mostly

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Speaker 1: that stuff just probably found on like the pistols and stuff,

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Speaker 1: right for defense, Yeah, it is. It's used on handguns

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Speaker 1: a lot. You know. The the advantage to red dot

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Speaker 1: site it's it's very quick and easy to use. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're not you don't have to line anything up um

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Speaker 1: the way that they operate their their parallax free. So

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Speaker 1: when I'm talking about the actual laser one, where would

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Speaker 1: you find that one? Ah? Yeah, handguns? Defensive guns, that's right.

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Speaker 1: It's not like military and Lawford for for hunting stuff. Right.

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Speaker 1: So people will call up Vortex though, We'll be like,

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Speaker 1: hey man, I wanna a red dot site for shooting turkeys. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they might say I want a red dot site from

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Speaker 1: my shotgun, you know, but it's something that you know,

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Speaker 1: turkeys would be one of the primary application you can

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Speaker 1: side in with one of those, right. Yeah, So you're

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Speaker 1: going like because we bet we were just trying to

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Speaker 1: explain it to their Dave, like, I think enough guy,

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Speaker 1: guys don't do enough of this. Turkey hunters don't do

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Speaker 1: enough of shooting the shotgun. And you're just like, if

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be serious about not if you're gonna be

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Speaker 1: serious if you're gonna go turkey hunting, I think you

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Speaker 1: just at some point you gotta take a piece of

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Speaker 1: paper out there, put a magic marker circle on it

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Speaker 1: and just see what happens, because you will see where

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Speaker 1: it is just always the pattern could be that if

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Speaker 1: you were to make the center of the pattern at

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Speaker 1: forty yards, I think could be I don't know more

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Speaker 1: inches consistently left right, high low. If you had that,

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Speaker 1: you didn't want to always remember I was just reading

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Speaker 1: this thing by this guy the other day. He says,

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Speaker 1: my whole life, I've been aiming high left on turkeys.

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Speaker 1: Because he's you know, you are using too. They're just

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Speaker 1: using a you know, a shotgun with an elevated rib

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Speaker 1: and a bead and they're they're just trying to basically

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Speaker 1: center that beat on top of the rib. But you know,

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Speaker 1: you move your head a little bit one way or

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Speaker 1: the other, and you know that pattern throws exactly differently.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, you could actually get like, if you want

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Speaker 1: to start shooting turkeys at seve in the eight yards,

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Speaker 1: like you know, with the right chokes and right loads,

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Speaker 1: people can do. Imagine that that red dot site that

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Speaker 1: would be helpful because you can you can turn that

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Speaker 1: thing in. You know, it would definitely become an advantage

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Speaker 1: of that point. And you talk about, you know, patterning

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Speaker 1: your shotgun. If you really want to figure out, you know,

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Speaker 1: what what the loads are doing that you're pushing through

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Speaker 1: your shotgun, you know red dots, that would be you know,

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Speaker 1: fantastic for that because you're gonna maintain that consistent point

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Speaker 1: errors exactly exactly and you might find, yeah, like your

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Speaker 1: high left or its stringing a particular way, and you

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Speaker 1: might find that you want to change the turkey load

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Speaker 1: that you've been using, you know, and find a better one.

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Speaker 1: We have the other day me and you're honest where

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Speaker 1: we had some very inexperience first time turkey hunters, very

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Speaker 1: inexperienced shooters and experienced hunters going turkey hunt. We're like, well,

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Speaker 1: let's gonna shoot a couple of targets. I'm telling you what. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the first shot on a piece of paper, you would

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Speaker 1: this guy would have never killed that turkey. No, I

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Speaker 1: would have missed him clean. You would have been like,

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Speaker 1: what in the world happened? You know? It wound up

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Speaker 1: being user air. And what's funny is at one point

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Speaker 1: he had he didn't know, but he had the gun

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Speaker 1: on safe and he thought he had it on like

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Speaker 1: he got up and never put it on fire. So

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Speaker 1: which is instructive because when he pulled that triggar that

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Speaker 1: gun Joe way to the right, it never went off,

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Speaker 1: you know. And that's like I remember Yeaest was talking

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Speaker 1: about a tricker. You just tell you give someone a shell,

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Speaker 1: it's no good. No, you give him a rifle with

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Speaker 1: with or without, you know, cartridge in the chamber that

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Speaker 1: was ready to go when it's not ready to go. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you just kind of go through a couple with

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Speaker 1: a couple without, and you know, pretty soon you don't

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Speaker 1: know what's gonna you just base our hand today rifle.

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Speaker 1: You are treating it as it's live and you're you

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Speaker 1: need to aim at the target and squeeze the trigger

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Speaker 1: and you'll quickly see who flinches and he does who's

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Speaker 1: the I see with myself, I've been shooting my entire life.

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Speaker 1: But I'll see now and then I'll have something like

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Speaker 1: that happened, and I'll be like, I clearly moved that.

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Speaker 1: I clearly moved that chakraun and it didn't go bang

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Speaker 1: because I whatever. You know, you if you shoot enough,

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Speaker 1: you you generally know to some extent you know if

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Speaker 1: you pulled that shot a little bit. But that's where

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Speaker 1: I can see the red dot thing is we were

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Speaker 1: trying to because we had a guy today, UM hit

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Speaker 1: a turkey that fell down and got it ran away.

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Speaker 1: I think it's okay to name names. No one's gonna know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, all right, Doug's best during best well, Doug's protegee,

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Speaker 1: d protege doctor protegee. UM doesn't have a huge the

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Speaker 1: great guy doesn't have a huge technical interest in hunting

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Speaker 1: equipment and gear and whatnot. Roll to turkey and UM,

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Speaker 1: I wonder like, were the red dot if you would

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Speaker 1: have been being like, you know, one thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: you think you think about when you when you aim

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Speaker 1: for a fine spot, and that you know, that does

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Speaker 1: definitely increase that tendency to pick a spot and aim

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Speaker 1: for and on a turkey course, guy is gonna center

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Speaker 1: that up on the head and the neck. And but

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Speaker 1: just having that small dot, you know, I think it

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Speaker 1: would make a guy maybe concentrated a little more on that. Um.

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Speaker 1: The other kind of anything about the red dots is

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Speaker 1: you know, when you look, you have a small window

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Speaker 1: to look through that's about an inch square, so and

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Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a neat thing wherever that you

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Speaker 1: can see the dot and you can move your head

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Speaker 1: around from side to side and up and down and

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Speaker 1: and the because the device is parallax free, as long

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Speaker 1: as you see the dot visually, whether it's down the

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Speaker 1: corner of the right corner, you'd think it would drift,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't. It stays constant to the image. And

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Speaker 1: so all you have to you know, as as soon

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Speaker 1: as you pick that dot up in that field of

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Speaker 1: view and it's on targeted, you're you know, you're good

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Speaker 1: to shoot, even if it's not centered in the window.

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Speaker 1: It's so they're you know, they're quick and they're friendly

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Speaker 1: to you. Explain parallax. That's one of the the things I

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Speaker 1: was going to say needs to be I never actually

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Speaker 1: understood parallax till I kind of understood it. But when

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Speaker 1: did we spent I spent a long time on the

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Speaker 1: phone call my own analogy. We could probably spend a

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Speaker 1: whole hour just talking about So we don't want to,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to, but but parallaxes, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's the it's the shift of that radical or that

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Speaker 1: point of aim on the target. And depending on where

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Speaker 1: the focuses are the the device or set at that

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Speaker 1: that point of aim can move around on the target

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Speaker 1: at different distances. And so you know, it leads to inaccuracy.

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Speaker 1: Let me let me just let me stop going side

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Speaker 1: in the state like to to to the to the listener.

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Speaker 1: Imagine that you're looking at you're looking at the rifle

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Speaker 1: scope and you got the cross air center on the

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Speaker 1: bull's eye something that had that's not parallax adjusted. You

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Speaker 1: could move your eye around so you got the crosstairs

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Speaker 1: or of the bull's eye. You could move your eye

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Speaker 1: around still keeping your eye looking through the scope, you

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Speaker 1: can move your eye around and there would be a

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Speaker 1: perhaps perceptible maybe inperceptible to you, but the cross hair

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Speaker 1: will have some movement. Yeah, it will be. It will

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Speaker 1: appear almost to just to float around and move depending

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Speaker 1: on where the eye is behind the And when people

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Speaker 1: talk about like for that reason when people talk about

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Speaker 1: consistently shoulder and you're gunn and doing everything the same

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Speaker 1: way all the time, is if you bring your face

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Speaker 1: you could feasibly sight your gun in. Then bring your

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Speaker 1: faith to the to your rifle and do your cheek

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Speaker 1: well and look through the scope and you might be

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Speaker 1: different than you normally are, but still look like you're

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Speaker 1: dead nuts, but you're not because and so parallax is

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Speaker 1: a thing that can fix that. And I'll talk about

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Speaker 1: like fifty yards, hundred yards, rim fire all that stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's you know, parallax. Depending on where an optic is

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Speaker 1: is set at when it's assembled or some of them

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Speaker 1: have adjustable lenses that that can be adjusted. They'll be

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Speaker 1: set for a particular distance. So in a big game

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Speaker 1: hunting scope that's that's non adjustable. Typically they would be

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Speaker 1: said at a hundred yards distance. As you focus on

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Speaker 1: something closer further than a hundred you can see some

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Speaker 1: of that parallax movement. Some rifle scopes have adjustments, either

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Speaker 1: an an adjustable objective out on the far end of

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Speaker 1: the scope or a side focus. You guys make anything

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Speaker 1: that doesn't we make. We make both. We do both.

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Speaker 1: The advantage is to a you know, a scope that

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Speaker 1: does not have any sort of adjustment is typically they're

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Speaker 1: they're simpler, they're less expensive for a lot of guys.

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Speaker 1: You know, a guy deer hunting in this country here,

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Speaker 1: for example, you know you're probably not gonna shoot much

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Speaker 1: beyond two d yards that it doesn't come into play

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Speaker 1: as far as hunting accuracy. You're you're not going to

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Speaker 1: get enough shift to you know, to miss the lethal

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Speaker 1: zone on a deer. If a if a rifle scope,

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Speaker 1: a magnified optic is going to have a parallax adjustment

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Speaker 1: on it of some fashion, it'll generally not always be

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Speaker 1: a scope that's ten power or more, just because that

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Speaker 1: that parallax becomes more of a factor chat greater distances.

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Speaker 1: In a room fire scope, we'll have a fixed yeah,

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Speaker 1: might have what you can imagine on a rampire scope.

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Speaker 1: Of courses you're shooting shorter distances. So a typical rim

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Speaker 1: fire range might be twenty five out to fifty yards

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Speaker 1: or so. And so when we we have a couple

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Speaker 1: that we do and we would set those at fifty yards,

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Speaker 1: and so there's you know, at fifty the right on

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Speaker 1: the money is you come in closer than fifty, you

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Speaker 1: could have a little bit of shift, and as you

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Speaker 1: go up beyond fifty, you could have a little bit

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Speaker 1: of shift too, But it brings it closer to sort

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Speaker 1: of the practical range that a rim fire shot at.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I was trying to explain all this

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Speaker 1: stuff in writing, the image that kept the stuck in

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Speaker 1: my head is like, let's say you're you're in the

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Speaker 1: passenger seat of a car good example, good example, and

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Speaker 1: you're looking at the spedometer right, and from your perspective

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Speaker 1: it looks like you're going thirty five for the knee

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Speaker 1: those themes that be from the driver's perspective you're going

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Speaker 1: for just looking at different angles. That's that's not entirely right,

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Speaker 1: but it kind of is a little know what it

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Speaker 1: does because what happens if you if you if you

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Speaker 1: were to sort of look at the mechanics of that spenometer,

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Speaker 1: and the needle is obviously it's it's come off the

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Speaker 1: plate of the surface, and that sort of represents that

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Speaker 1: that internal gap in in parallax in the scope if

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Speaker 1: the scope is focused correctly. If we had that scope

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Speaker 1: that was set at a hundred yards and you were

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Speaker 1: shooting at a hundred yards effectively in your example, the

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Speaker 1: needle of the spedometer would be just flush with a

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Speaker 1: backplate an incident. You know, no matter which angle you

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Speaker 1: looked at, it all the same speed. Yeah, all right,

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Speaker 1: so round rifle scopes. Prior to the next rifle scope.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break, alright, So still on

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Speaker 1: the subject, rival and yahn jump in, man, jump in

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Speaker 1: what you want. But I'm gonna jump to And this

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Speaker 1: one isn't like, this isn't a huge thing because I

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Speaker 1: don't get a lot of quiet. Like I'm in some

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Speaker 1: way trying to relay to you guys, questions that we

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Speaker 1: get from people to watch Mediator or whatever, listen to

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Speaker 1: the show, or just people who are looking for advice. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is one that doesn't get asked that much. Let's

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Speaker 1: not spend a ton of time on it. But why

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Speaker 1: in the hell did scopes used to have a one

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Speaker 1: inch okay the tube. Everything used to be like a

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Speaker 1: one inch tube, or maybe I'm wrong, it feels like

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Speaker 1: it was. No, there's still lots of one inch tubes.

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Speaker 1: And now you see like one inch and you can

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Speaker 1: pick you can buy a scope like suck X scope

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Speaker 1: and one inch or thirty millimeter why or larger? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Like what like? And there are even some forty millimeter

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Speaker 1: tubes out there if you can believe that. So and

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Speaker 1: you got to match the tube with your rings that

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Speaker 1: you purchased. So why why did Why did this is

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Speaker 1: just some people can sell more stuff. Well if you

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Speaker 1: if you go you know, if you track it back

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Speaker 1: far enough. It was just as as sort of this

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Speaker 1: the scope industry get going and built scopes in the

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Speaker 1: United States. Traditionally one inch was just sort of adopted

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Speaker 1: as as as a common size that companies were using.

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Speaker 1: In Europe, thirty millimeter was was adopted. And you know,

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Speaker 1: those those two numbers are actually not too far apart.

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Speaker 1: They were they were sort of a practical size and

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Speaker 1: dimension to sit on top of a of a rifle.

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Speaker 1: So we're the crowd shooting at American gis with millions

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Speaker 1: during world War two. That's a really good question. My

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Speaker 1: dad never forgave the Germans how many millimeters is one inch? Then?

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Speaker 1: So I can the gap. It's twenty five point four,

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Speaker 1: so it's four point you know, small small difference in there.

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Speaker 1: There are some you know, what's really interesting about that question,

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Speaker 1: and widely misunderstood, is that there are some there are

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Speaker 1: some differences between the two. The big misconception about that

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Speaker 1: is that the larger tube provides a brighter image to

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Speaker 1: the shooter, and that's it really isn't true that that

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Speaker 1: really has nothing to do with a tube size. So

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Speaker 1: what are you getting for what? Well, again, the history

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Speaker 1: is that it was just one size used in one

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Speaker 1: area another another. But there are some advantage of when

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Speaker 1: you look at these scopes that go from one inch

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Speaker 1: to thirty to thirty four to thirty five, obviously that

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Speaker 1: tube is getting bigger and bigger. Seeing a cutout of

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Speaker 1: a rifle scope would would help to make this easier.

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Speaker 1: But inside the scope there's a there's another tube inside there.

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Speaker 1: It's called an erector tube, and it can It contains

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Speaker 1: the zoom lenses and the erecting lenses which which flip

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Speaker 1: and invert the image that tube has to move inside

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Speaker 1: the main tube of the SCUPE. So it effectively it's

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Speaker 1: it pivots and moves up and down, and that's controlled

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Speaker 1: by the turrets on the scope. And so what a

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Speaker 1: larger scope tube can allow, not necessarily, but it can

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Speaker 1: allow is a greater swing of movement inside for that

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Speaker 1: erector tube. And so for the guys that shoot very

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Speaker 1: long distances, they need to be able to adjust for

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Speaker 1: a lot of bullet drop at extreme distance. And so

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Speaker 1: the more internal swing is available in the scope, the

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Speaker 1: more the scope can handle that sort of thing. So

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Speaker 1: there are some theoretical advantages there. Now I had I

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Speaker 1: had no idea. That depends that's what it was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well it's you know, if you think heavier, bigger scope,

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Speaker 1: bigger rings. Yeah, but it depends on the relationship to

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Speaker 1: if you think about it between that outer tube and

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Speaker 1: that inner tube, and if the if the inner tube

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Speaker 1: grows at the same rate the outer tube does and

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Speaker 1: the and the movement is the same, well then there's

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Speaker 1: no advantage to it. So that has to you know,

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Speaker 1: you need to increase that gap inside what percentage of

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Speaker 1: what do you guys sell? It's it's because you guys

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Speaker 1: kind of like you guys push the thirty You guys

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Speaker 1: seem to like the totally wrong. No, not necessarily. We

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Speaker 1: sell a lot of one issues we have. We we

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Speaker 1: have a pretty strong emphasis on long range stuff. That's

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Speaker 1: a that's a big focus of workings. So in that view,

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Speaker 1: those typically are are going to be thirty millimeter or

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Speaker 1: thirty four and some of the big tactical scopes we

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Speaker 1: do like a long excuse me, like a long range

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Speaker 1: scope that will generally start like at thirty millimeter, Like

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Speaker 1: that would be like generally your starting point and then

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Speaker 1: like Paul said, you'd go up into you know, potentially

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Speaker 1: a thirty four even a thirty five. Have you guys

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Speaker 1: started making we do? Yeah, we do right now. We

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Speaker 1: have both thirty four and thirty five millimeter two scopes.

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Speaker 1: The thirty five is part of our Razor series. That scope,

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Speaker 1: for example, has been used in some of these really

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Speaker 1: extreme long range three thirty eight lapooh magnums, you know,

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Speaker 1: fifty b mgs where guys are shooting out past two

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Speaker 1: thousand yards with it. They're getting tremendous bullet drop, so

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Speaker 1: they need a way to compensate for that. We had

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Speaker 1: a guy with that scope that had a confirmed engagement

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Speaker 1: with a target. Excuse me, and I want to say

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Speaker 1: two point zero seven miles if I remember correct, like

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Speaker 1: an actual like a combat situation. No, it was, it was,

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Speaker 1: I mean it was. It was. It was like at

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Speaker 1: a out of range like you know, but but it

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00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,920
Speaker 1: was like you know, a big metal plate point seven miles.

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Speaker 1: That's a long way out there, two point zero seven miles. Yeah. Wow,

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00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,880
Speaker 1: that's a poke though, But so he used, I want

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Speaker 1: to say, and you know, I could be quoting us incorrect,

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Speaker 1: shooting a something three farms over. What's your head? What's

364
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,639
Speaker 1: your thing doing? Way up there, Doug? I was just

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Speaker 1: listening and I thought, you know, I'm gonna start breathing

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Speaker 1: heavy because of all this scope talk, and you know,

367
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,919
Speaker 1: starts getting tis get me so excited. So I just

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Speaker 1: took the microphone away so I could have a little

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Speaker 1: time with myself over here. Anyways, like shooting before, Doug

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Speaker 1: durn Fell sleep be shooting a deer in town from

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Speaker 1: the long drive, Well, Doug's place here, I bet you'd

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Speaker 1: be pushing it to get a three yard shot. Probably

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Speaker 1: you might have a spot or two, but you know,

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Speaker 1: and so we think about that to two point oh

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Speaker 1: seven miles. That's in the neighborhood. A third five hundred yards.

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Speaker 1: I remember while as a kid my brother shot at

377
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Speaker 1: deer hundred seventy yards. Seemed like this infathomable distance. It

378
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,119
Speaker 1: was like unfathoml distance. My father shot a deer on

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00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 1: this farm at a quarter of a mile all the

380
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,879
Speaker 1: way across the forty one shot. So there's there. He

381
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 1: stretched it further than that. That is why he is

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00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 1: known as the quarter mile buck hunter. He's got it

383
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 1: on a hat, all right. Yeah, and he's throwing a

384
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 1: good optics question you see all the time to keep

385
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 1: him with scopes. We'll switch to knockers later. Yeah. Um,

386
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 1: like all the distinctions, Yeah, I just had a good one.

387
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 1: Well yeah, the main one being like, no, you go ahead.

388
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Speaker 1: I don't want to stop. I don't want to take

389
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 1: your turn. No go ahead, I'll think of a better one.

390
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 1: Dog got dog jumping in with the optics question. So

391
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Speaker 1: I have vortex optics on my rifles. Say, say I

392
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 1: run vor Tex optics. Do you want to sound cool

393
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 1: as ship? I run flortex optics on my rifles, and

394
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 1: uh is cooler? I noticed that when you hang out

395
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 1: with Steve Rinella. After a while you start talking like

396
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,879
Speaker 1: him and well you know that, No, there's a cadence

397
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 1: and everything. Uh BDC radical. Um, I have a BBC

398
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 1: radical on one of my rifles and I don't on

399
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 1: another one, dear rifle. Both our thirty six is UM

400
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 1: and I like both. I seem to prefer the BDC

401
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: even though I'm not shooting that far. How should I

402
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: set that up? Can I can? I? Can? I can? I? Yeah,

403
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 1: I can't. Why about who I asked the permission? Great question, Doug,

404
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 1: But can you take it a step further, like just

405
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 1: explain what the hell that means as opposed to like

406
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 1: like start with what start with radical and then and

407
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 1: then build up to ducks questions. Sure that mean that?

408
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 1: That is? It's a very very popular radical that we sell,

409
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a commonly used term in the

410
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,199
Speaker 1: industry too. I think everybody is familiar with a you know,

411
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 1: a radical being a set of crosshairs in a rifle

412
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 1: scope and of course the you know, the user aims

413
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: with the target on the center of the crosshairs. What

414
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: a BBC is, that's it's it's called a bullet drop

415
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: compensating radical, and you know. What we're trying to do

416
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 1: is you, as you sit in a rifle at a

417
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: fixed distance, say a hundred you're adjusting the center of

418
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 1: the crosshairs to be zeroed in commonly at a hundred

419
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: yards on the target. But of course that you know

420
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 1: that bullet is it is it drives further out. It's

421
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: it's constantly falling, and so with increasing distance, the user

422
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: has to find a way to adjust it for more

423
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: and more and more bullet drops it go if you

424
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: want to shoot past that hundred yards distance. And what

425
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: a what a BBC radical does is it gives you

426
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 1: points of reference on the radical itself to compensate for

427
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: that bullet drop at various distances. And to keep it simple.

428
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 1: What what we did with that radical and and and

429
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 1: it's this is this technique is used by other companies

430
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: as well. Is you try to think in hundred yard increments,

431
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 1: which which which a lot of shooters and hunters do.

432
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: To keep it easy. We can't just put a you know,

433
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: a million marks on that radical. So what we try

434
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: to do is think about the rifle being zero to

435
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: a hundred yards and having a mark at where a

436
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: two hundred yard point of impact would be a three hundred,

437
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: four hundred and a five hundred yard and for distances

438
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 1: in between that, the shooter would just sort of hold

439
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: between those marks. And so what happens those marks come

440
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: below the center of the cross there, because what is

441
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: that is you're shooting at increasing distances. What you're really

442
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: doing with that radical is you're you're incrementally raising the

443
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: muzzle of the gun. If you think about it, marks

444
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 1: are lower. So you bring the rifle up to line

445
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: those marks up. And it's a little tricky because what

446
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: happens is you're doing one radical pattern and is any

447
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 1: you know, anyone who's done shooting those there. You know,

448
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: there are a million different cartridges, loads, bullet weights, velocities, altitudes, temperatures, pressures,

449
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: all those things affect bullet drop. And so when we

450
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: give you a radical and it has these five little

451
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: marks on it, you have to keep in mind that

452
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: those are those are drawn up and designed around h

453
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 1: You know, we just crunched a lot of numbers. We

454
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: looked at it most of the popular center fire hunting cartridges.

455
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: You know, picked an altitude and a pressure and a

456
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: temperature and and came up with drop numbers that we

457
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: felt could match the widest possible selection and your user

458
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: the manual, the user manual that comes with it gives

459
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 1: you kind of a way to understand. It gives you

460
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: an overview of that talks about different uh do even

461
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: list like like like I can't remember how you guys articulated,

462
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: but kind of like muzzleoaders. Yes, it does. It will

463
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: break firearms into different classes. You know, say a standard

464
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: hunting rifle, a magnum hunting rifle, as you point out,

465
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 1: maybe muzzleloaders, maybe rim fires, because those those different groups

466
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: all have have very different bullet drop rates. And then

467
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: within each of those groups, of course, you know what,

468
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: they're even finer rates um there are. There's one of

469
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 1: the things that's really key about that, and I'll mention quickly,

470
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: and it is very widely misunderstood, is that, for the

471
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: most part, in in rifle scopes that are commonly sold

472
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: for hunting and BBC radicals are they are a hunting device.

473
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: That is Yeah, it's not a it's not a high precision,

474
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: tactical or target style radical. It is a big game

475
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: hunting radical. That's the purpose of that. They're they're commonly

476
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: put in the style of rifle scope that that demands

477
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: that there's only one power that they function at, and

478
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: this is this is glad. But let me stop you

479
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: because you're you're gonna enter into first vocal plane, correct

480
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: second vocal point, and I want to do that, but

481
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: let me I wanted to like set this up a

482
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: little better. Let's just jump Let's just jump into that

483
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 1: before before we do the first vocal plane, second focal plant.

484
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: I want to say about the BBC thing. What I

485
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: understand on a user manual for your scopes that has

486
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: BBC radical, The manual doesn't written most of the manual

487
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: doesn't say that those if you're on the manual doesn't

488
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: say when you're on max power, it's one for m

489
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: o A one five to five, seven and a half

490
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: and eleven. Okay, why does the manual? Is that not

491
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: a good I would think that may it may list

492
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: that in there, but it's on your website. I was

493
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: wondering if you guys don't if that's not a good

494
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: way to think about it for something, it probably isn't.

495
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: Because if you're if you're gonna, if you're gonna take

496
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 1: a BBC radical and you're you're going to adopt it

497
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: and use it. If you if you start thinking in

498
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: those minutes of angle, you're you're sort of you're transitioning

499
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: into the style of shooting that would not typically use

500
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: a BBC. And and this is you know this. It's

501
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: a little complex. But for example, someone who would shoot

502
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: with m O A numbers or if it was a

503
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: Mill scope, they would be m I gotta stop you

504
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: one more time. But I hate to do this by

505
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: I just want to bring m A is. Imagine you're

506
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: standing in a circle earth a minute of angle. God,

507
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: I hate trying to explain this. It's one six one

508
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: degree if you imagine that you're standing on a flat line. No, Paul,

509
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: explain this, Mark, explain this. I think the easiest way

510
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: I found it explain this is is people should they're

511
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 1: they're Basically there are two formats that are used for

512
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: for adjusting turrets in the scope or using radicals, and

513
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: so that's either minutes of angle or Miller radians and

514
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: basically there too. If I think that, one way that's

515
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: always helped me to explain is think about sort of

516
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: a clock face. What we're talking about is angles in

517
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: that clock face. And the reason angles are important is

518
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 1: because if you think about what we're what we're doing

519
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: with that rifle when we're trying to adjust for long range,

520
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: is we're working with angles were you know, we touched

521
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: on it earlier about how those marks on the radical

522
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: dropped down and we bring the muzzle of the rifle up.

523
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 1: So think of it, you know, picture maybe like an

524
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: artillery gun. You know, we're to to shoot further distances.

525
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: We're increasing the angle of that muzzle. Really by dialing

526
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: the scope or using turrets, we're bringing it up at

527
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: an angle. And so what those minutes of angle or

528
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: those mill ratings are doing, they're representing that angle that

529
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 1: we adjust and they're just two different scales of doing it.

530
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: They're just simply two different ways of calculating angles. But

531
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: let me throw this out you what if you'll talk

532
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: about if you hear a term sub m a accuracy, Yeah,

533
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: what that would mean is that the rifle is going

534
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,719
Speaker 1: to shoot a less than one inch group at So

535
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 1: if you imagine this angle we're talking about one degree,

536
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,479
Speaker 1: it grows as it gets farther away. At one yards,

537
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: the distance between the lines and that angle is one inch.

538
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: At two hundred yards, it doubles. It doubles at four

539
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: yards on out. So if you have m o A accuracy,

540
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: mean you can shoot a one inch group at one

541
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: hundred yards, you're shooting a two inch group of two

542
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: hundred yards, three inch group of three yards, a four

543
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: inch group of four hundred yards as you get farther out.

544
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: So that's if people were talking about when they say

545
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: like sub m o A accuracy in this measurement, which

546
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: is like cryptic plays into all the stuff. So now

547
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop talking and let you run with and

548
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: let you run with what you were getting into. Yeah,

549
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: what what? What? What? I was going to touch on

550
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: there quickly. We were just talking about those those angles,

551
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: and those angles relate to the to the marks and

552
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: the radical. Remember we were going, why would you go

553
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: from the hundred yard two hundred yard, three hundred yard

554
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: four hundred to the one and a half four and

555
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: a half, seven and a half and eleven. And the

556
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: reason I was saying, the guy that buys that BBC Radical,

557
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: what he's looking for is a quick and s away

558
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: to compensate for long range shooting. It's easy, it's fast.

559
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: Everyone can wrap their head around. I'm zero to my

560
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: crossairs are onto the hundred. That next market is two

561
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: d next is three. It's very it's easy to do.

562
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: If I tell you now that you know on that

563
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: let's say, on that five yard shot you need ten

564
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: minutes of angle, you've just made the whole thing a

565
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,239
Speaker 1: lot more complex to that guy. You know, Now he's

566
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: got to think, well, what you know? You see now

567
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: you go back to the Matthew we're saying, and you think,

568
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: you know, so how much drop is that that works?

569
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: And that's that's commonly the techniques that are used by

570
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: by precision shooters. Snipers for example, would use that style.

571
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: You can use ballistics calculators that will take some basic

572
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: inputs about a bullets BC and it's muzzle velocity and

573
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: the and the temperature and altitude that you're at, and

574
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: they will very very accurately calculate the bullet drop. And

575
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: then that same program take that bullet drop and it

576
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: can it can put it it can you know, express

577
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: it in minutes of angle if you'd like, it can

578
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: express it in the mill ratings. We're talking one of

579
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: those programs called Shooter. That's one of the best ones,

580
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: mainly just to get an understanding of the stuff. But

581
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: with with the BBC like I do what you say,

582
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: not not that we say not to do. But I

583
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: in my biny harness, like I can't write a knockers

584
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: in my binarts. There's this little pocket. And what I'll

585
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: do with my rifle in the in the lower tim shooting,

586
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,239
Speaker 1: I'll draw a picture. That's that's a very good way

587
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: to do that. I draw a little picture of what

588
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: my BBC cross the radical looks like. And I just

589
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: saw I have for a memory, guy, I take the

590
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: m O a thing and I got my zero, so

591
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: I do two yards zero usually, and then I have

592
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: each hash mark what it is exactly, what the top

593
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: of the post is on the bottom exactly. And then

594
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: I put and I write down exactly what the half

595
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: marks are, so my little car will have a thing.

596
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: And I also put into one yards in case you

597
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: want up like shooting at a kyle or something, I'll

598
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: put like the one yards, so the one hundred yard.

599
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: I know I'm a little bit high, you know. Then

600
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: I have the two zero line, and then I have

601
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: a mark for between that it might be that the

602
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: two zero line and the next hash mark halfway between

603
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: might be like two thirty. The next line might be

604
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: down the line and there's enough numbers on there for

605
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: me that if I was a look through my range

606
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: finder and no, I'm gonna look down and feel very confident, right,

607
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: you know what, I have many of those numbers in there,

608
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: just sort of. I also know in my head. I

609
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: know in my head the hash marks. But if I

610
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: ever like feel like just just for sense of security,

611
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: or if I'm in a situation, I know that I

612
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: can pull that thing out and I got like, oh

613
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: two D seventy three ten, and I'm never like going

614
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: I'm never aiming between those any more than just splitting

615
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: them in the middle. But I have an array of

616
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: things where like any animal, did I have any business

617
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: shooting at, I'm gonna know exactly where holding without taking

618
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: the cap off and start clicking on the skull. That's right,

619
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: you know when the advantage to that, to using that

620
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: radical is that's quick and it's fast. The guys that

621
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: will sit there and use those ballistics programs we talked

622
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: about and calculate those drops and minutes of angle. The

623
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: downfall of that is kind of this slow deliberate process.

624
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: You you have to, you know, first range an object.

625
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: Then you have to enter that range into that ballistics calculator.

626
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: It has to then give you that correction. Then you

627
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: have to either reference that correction on the radical or

628
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 1: reach up and dial it on a turret. So it's slow,

629
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: and that's that's the The big advantage to BBC radicals

630
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: is speed when when you boil it down, they're fast

631
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: and they're easy to use. The disadvantages they're not as

632
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: accurate as calculating those minutes of angle or mill radians

633
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: out And what you probably do is, you know, we

634
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: touched on the fact that a BBC radical is is

635
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: calculated sort of, you know, it's it's putting a whole

636
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,239
Speaker 1: bunch of cartridges together and blending them and coming up

637
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: with a set of numbers that gives you a really

638
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: general ballistics curve that's going to be common, you know

639
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: for what the most big game calibers. Yeah, and perfectly

640
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: and perfectly suitable for the vast majority videos and the

641
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: guys that want higher accuracy out of that what they

642
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: can do on our on our website, there's a there's

643
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: a ballistics program called the l RBC and that'll pull up.

644
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: You have to enter some basic information in about the

645
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: bullet BC and the velocity and environmental conditions. But you

646
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 1: can go to a tab on there that says radicals

647
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: and you can do just what you described. You can

648
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: pull up a graphic of that BBC radical And the

649
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: slick thing about that program is it will take the

650
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: specific data that you put in there about the load

651
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: and the bullet you're shooting, and it will do the

652
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: math for you and it will show rather than that

653
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: simple two D four hundred five hundred, it'll do the

654
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: math and it might display it'll, it'll and those numbers

655
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: are exact, so you can sort of take that to

656
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: the bank. Those those are much more tightly tuned. When

657
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: you do that technique, it's just, you know, it's it's

658
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: something everybody can do that. It's easy to use, you know,

659
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: it's it's out there. I was just gonna say it's good.

660
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: You can say you can take it to the bank.

661
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: But I feel like verification at the range has to

662
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: be done. Always want to do that. I was shooting

663
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: with these market ball I feel like, you know what

664
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: you gotta shoot. Yeah, too many people plug those numbers

665
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: in like I'm going hunting. No, you should plug those

666
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 1: numbers in and go to the range. Get some gongs

667
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: out there, stuff and check. Because it happens to me

668
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: almost every time I go. I'm like, all right, I know,

669
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: like a little calculator it says four and a half

670
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 1: minutes up right, I shoot that talker three times in

671
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: a row and I miss it. All right, there's a reason.

672
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: There's a reason for that. You know. What's interesting is

673
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: those programs have gotten very good now. They're much better

674
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: than they were, say four or even five years ago.

675
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: I mean, they've really improved. The things that change that

676
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: people don't understand is even if you take a chronograph

677
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: and you measure the speed of the bullet coming out

678
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: of your rifle, and your chronograph says feet per second,

679
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: you could take five other chronographs that same day and

680
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: line them up and get a spread of different velocities.

681
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: They typically are not very consistent, and so that has

682
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: a drastic effect on those curves. And so when you

683
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: pick a number, maybe you got it off the box

684
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: of ammunition, or maybe you have your chronograph and you

685
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: measured it and you throw that into that program, it

686
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: may or may not be accurate. It may not really

687
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: be telling you the true story. And the other the

688
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: other key piece of information there is the ballistics coal

689
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: efficient of the bullet, the BC. And so a program

690
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: is going to ask you for one BC number and

691
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: for for your listeners, you know BC number, that's sort

692
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 1: of a way it predicts how efficiently a bullet flies

693
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: through the air. And and basically long skinny bullets with

694
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: pointed noses and pointed tails are you know, they fly

695
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 1: the best. They'll stay stable, and they stay stable at

696
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: lower velocities right right there, and they maintain their velocity better.

697
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: So if you took a long, skinny boat tailed bullet,

698
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: maybe exactly the same grain weight, you know, let's say

699
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: it's a hundred and sixty grain bullet, and you contrasted

700
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: that with a rounded nose bullet with a flat base

701
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: on it, if you went out at five yards and

702
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: measured the velocity that long skinny pointed bullet, even though

703
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 1: with the same powder charge behind them and the same

704
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: muzzle blossie, it would be traveling faster at that. So

705
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: that's a key thing. And the thing about bcs. Quickly

706
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: I was going to touch on the program just ask

707
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: you to put in one BC number. But the thing

708
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: about BCS is they constantly change that that BC varies

709
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: from the incident leaves the muzzle the gun so as

710
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: that bullet slows the BC number. Actually, so it's you know,

711
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: while the programs use a single number, it's not. It's

712
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: not really what goes on, all right, I got I

713
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: want to jump in and interject. I want to back

714
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: up a little bit in comment on something. We're talking about,

715
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: the thing I carry in my pocket or the thing

716
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: I can remember by no pouch. I want to give

717
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: you like a real world situation of how I how

718
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: I think about this. We were running Cou's Deer in

719
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: Arizona this year and at one point in time, like

720
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: some deer stepped out, A bunch of does stepped out.

721
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: It remembers, okay, no buck, but some does stepped out.

722
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: Absolutely I would have. And it was a trail. It

723
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: was like a little trail through an opening. Yeah, it's

724
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: just a picture. You're looking at the hillside and there's

725
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: a big brushy bottom and the first thing you see

726
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: is the open hillside with a trail across it. I

727
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: hadn't noticed the trail to I see some deer walking

728
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: down it. Totally I could have thrown up and taken

729
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: the shot. Right, there's no buck. Then the deer walk away,

730
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: and I'm like, man, a buck could totally just come

731
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: walking down that trail. At which point, even though I

732
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: would have taken the shot, I pulled out my little

733
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: thing took a distance reading on those doughs. And they're like,

734
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: so if he shows up on one of the three

735
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: days that I'm gonna be sitting here watching this Hilson,

736
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: what exactly is going on? And I look, I'm like, oh, yeah,

737
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: that shot is dial because I actually know now now

738
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 1: it's beyond like me being like, yeah, it's probably right,

739
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: ACCOUSI is not a tall animal. No, No, we're talking

740
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: about hundred pound white tails. So I remember looking at

741
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: that thing and being like, man, if a buck comes

742
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: down that trail, I know, like what I'm gonna do.

743
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm gonna do, and I could

744
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: have done it anyway, but you know what I mean,

745
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: it's like in that way, I use that thing. No

746
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: another thing I want to strow. We're talking about this

747
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: long like long distance stuff, and long distance shooting is controversial,

748
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not controversial to shoot long distances at

749
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: a range. There's a big debate right now. I was like,

750
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: what's too far? I say it's too far when you

751
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: wonder about whether you're gonna hit it or not, if

752
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: you're you know, whether whether you're gonna make a good head. Yeah,

753
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: the minute you take a shot where you're like, I

754
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: wonder if I can hit that, you are definitely shooting

755
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: too far. But I my philosophy on this stuff is

756
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: I take I like to take long range technology, long

757
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: range skill sets, and apply it in a hunting situation

758
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 1: to normal hunting situations. Where first time I went antelope

759
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: un my brother's shot antalopen three, our response was, Wow,

760
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: he hit it right. Nowadays it would be I'll say

761
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 1: exactly why I'm hit that antelope in a lot of

762
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: conditions would be a chip shot. So long distance shooting

763
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: for me, in a real world hunting situation is taking

764
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: shots like making it be there where you know you're like,

765
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: I'm gonna shoot his heart out. Push that distance. Maybe

766
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: it's a hundred yards mute. If you got into the

767
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: long range, if you got into all this thinking and

768
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: the proper equipment and the proper practice, you might get you.

769
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: I was talking a guy there day who teaches you

770
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: guys introduced me to him. The guy that teaches the

771
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: Marine Corps. Yeah, he hunts a lot of He shoots

772
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 1: a lot of doughs on some farm land. And he says,

773
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: at two yards, I shoot him in the head. I'm like,

774
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: I can't. I would never do that. But I'm like,

775
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: he knows at fifty like me shooting a deer at

776
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: fifty yards, I probably have the degree of certainty that

777
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: he has a two hundred yards. Right. This guy teaches

778
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: shooting and shoots and he understands that stuff in and out.

779
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: So for me to say, like, what's too long for

780
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: Tony to shoot? Well, for his job, he shoots eight

781
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: hundred yards, right, I would if you put a target

782
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: at eight and a targeted too and tolds to hit

783
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: the bull's eye, I would be like, you gave me

784
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: the two hundred yards and him the eight hundred yard.

785
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: I'd be like, I bet this dude's gonna win the bat? Right,

786
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: what's too far? You tell me that? That's definitely one

787
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: of those topics. You could spend a whole another hour,

788
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: and every editor, every editor at every hunting magazine, has

789
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: taken his shot at saying it. But it's unsolvable. It's

790
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: just like I been trying to find a way to

791
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 1: solve it, and it'd be like when you have questioned

792
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: about where you will hit, it's too far. And for

793
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: a lot of guys, I'm telling you it's unfortunate to

794
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: say a lot of guys, hundred yards is too far.

795
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: It is you don't know what you're doing. The first

796
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: time I ever hunt of Wisconsin, I shot a deer

797
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: in the tember has ninety yards away, actually arranged it

798
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: after I shot it. You know, the guys came back

799
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: and they're like, wow, man, that is a fantastic shot.

800
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: You know, and I'm from I wasn't. I'm no expert, Marchman.

801
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: You have pretty solid understanding of the things that we're

802
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,919
Speaker 1: talking about right now, right, but it was just interesting

803
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: for me to hear from them like that. Seemed like,

804
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: you know, pretty long shot. And I guess, you know,

805
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: for the circumstances in the Timber, I guess that is

806
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: a someone long shot for sure. But if you've ever

807
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: spined deer at a hundred fifty yards, I might say, man,

808
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: you know what, you're shooting too far right, because you're

809
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 1: a long If you spined a deer at that distance,

810
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,760
Speaker 1: you might as well you could have if that bullet

811
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: was the other direction, just blue his kneecap off. You're

812
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: that far off, And I think, and I think you

813
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: always they spy like, yeah, went down. You see hunting

814
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: shows all times, so dude, spines deer just both they're

815
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: jumping up in high five and I'm like, dude, you

816
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: have just chopped You're you're that many inches off. You

817
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: shot too far, dude. It's all relative to you know,

818
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: every everybody's different. The level equipment now is definitely better

819
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: than it was before. But you know, you make a

820
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,720
Speaker 1: good example, Steve. They're they're probably been as many deer

821
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: wounded at a hundred yards as there have been. I

822
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: have seen it all times. I think I think your

823
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: definition of that's probably the best I've heard. I mean,

824
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: it's gonna depend on the individual, their experience, their equipment,

825
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,879
Speaker 1: their understanding of that equipment, all those varials, variables come

826
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: into play as to how effective marksman that person is

827
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: going to be. And and you can't apply a general

828
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:52,399
Speaker 1: definition across the board everybody because everybody's looking for that number. Yeah,

829
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: there are some numbers here. There are some numbers I hear.

830
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: I don't want to get into it. There's some numbers

831
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: I here, I'm like, yeah, that's too far. Yeah, and

832
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: you see you see it. I mean, you see that

833
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: out on the internet when that's happening. What I'm thinking

834
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: of is you it gets there's a certain distance in

835
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: a certain kind of country where you just don't know

836
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: what the wind is doing over there. And also it

837
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: takes the bullet a long time to get there. And

838
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: when you're looking at a deer and it's let's say

839
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: you're looking at it elk and he's traveling up a hillside,

840
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: he's he's a bull. He's got a bunch of spoot

841
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: cows strung out in front of him. Right, he pauses,

842
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: looks back. That deer could be into his That elk

843
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: could be into his second step should he leave, should

844
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: he start walking at that moment, he could be into

845
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: his second step by the time your bulle gets over there.

846
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: If you're talking about thousand yard shot, yeah, yeah, And

847
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: you know, I you know, I hate teaven throw numbers

848
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: out there, but that you know, that range is is

849
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: just that's a non starter for hunting. That's just too far.

850
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: It's just because there's a lot of a lapse time,

851
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: you know. All right, let's hammer through some more stuff. Well,

852
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: I got a quick question, well two part question. One.

853
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: We noticed I was talking to Marks. I was trying

854
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: to get a new scope, and I was looking for

855
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: a forty millimeter bell. That's what I was like, Man,

856
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: I don't really have a lot of those. Everybody wants

857
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: to fill fifty millimeters, and so I'd like to know

858
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: why that is and if there's like this perceived um

859
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: benefit and what is the actual benefit you know, to

860
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: someone's eye or you know, the hunting conditions, and what's

861
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: the drawback? And then the drawback? And then two is

862
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,439
Speaker 1: um A big question we get in all the time

863
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: is like how much money should I spend on the

864
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: scope to put on my rifle? Sometimes you hear, you know,

865
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: double the amount that you've got into the rifle for

866
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: your optics, you know. And for most of us hunters,

867
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: I think probably nine plus percent, including myself, rarely shooting

868
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: past three yards. So what level of scope and how

869
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: much money do I need to spend to like always

870
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: be happy out to that you know distance? You know,

871
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: if I'm never going past it, you know what I mean?

872
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 1: For like the Wisconsin deer hunter. Right before you answer that, though,

873
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 1: let's just take a quick break here from our sponsors.

874
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, so uh in response to your seven part question,

875
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 1: there was a lot of dude, you're asking like what

876
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: objective lens? Bells objective? Like what objective lens do I want?

877
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: What are the pros and cons of a forty and

878
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: a fifty and the thirty, and what's too much to

879
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: spend on the scope. Let's let's let's do all the

880
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: damn questions. We'll get through as many as we can.

881
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: So and so objective diameter, right, like i'd say, in general, Paul,

882
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: just to explain what that is. So that's that's the

883
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: diameter of the end of the rifle scopes lens that

884
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: you're not looking through, so not the ocular. So that's

885
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: the I never commared ocular. Ocular is what your eyes

886
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: up against exactly, and that holds true boculars right, same

887
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: terms ocular objective, And you're just expressed in millimeters. So

888
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: when when when you're saying forty and fifty, that's just

889
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: simply the diameter of that in millimeters. It's you know,

890
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: it's how big is that lens as you look at it? Exactly?

891
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: So so in general, right, you know, a larger objective

892
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: is going to you know, essentially bring in more light. Right,

893
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: so you're gonna have better light transmission. Some whe people

894
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: talk about rifle scopes. You know, light transmission is a

895
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,439
Speaker 1: really big deal because you know, game is oftentimes most

896
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: active at donna, dusk and in the low lights scenarios. Right, Yeah,

897
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: with a good scope or good binoculars, it's when you

898
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: look through it, it's lighter than what your eyes giving you. Right,

899
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 1: you can look at the hillside that's too dark and

900
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: you look through binoculis be like, ohly should just do

901
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 1: you stand over there? Right? Because it's giving it's giving

902
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: you light. So and I'm not I'm not an optical engineer, right,

903
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: but so there's a lot of a lot of factors, right,

904
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,720
Speaker 1: you know, the glass quality, uh you know is fully

905
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: multi coded. You know, the quality of those uh those

906
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: multi coodings. Um. The optical design you know, I talked

907
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 1: to you know, our optical engineers at the office, you know,

908
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I mean really optical design is

909
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: really as much and art as it is the shape

910
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: just everything and the layout number of every system. So

911
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 1: I mean that that is you know, but that is

912
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: one one variable that does affect you know, light transmissions.

913
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: So um, I think you know, oftentimes people you know,

914
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: bigger is better, you know, a little bit bigger is

915
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: better mentality, you know, whether it comes objective diameter or

916
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: or you know, larger calibers, right, you know, but I

917
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: mean it is it is hamburgers, other stuff we have,

918
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, we don't really exercise good portion control

919
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: in this country. Maybe downsize our hamburgers. Give Mark a

920
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: quick hand with that though. One one thing that's really

921
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: important to understand is it's it is not always an

922
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: advantage to have a bigger bell. It may give you

923
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: a brighter image, it may not it is guaranteed that

924
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: it's going to make the scopes it higher. Off. Here's

925
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: here's the trick. One of the things to remember when

926
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: when you sort of calculating brightness through an optic one

927
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: of the most simplestic basic forms of estimating brightness is

928
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: to divide the magnification into the objective lens, and that

929
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: gives you a number called an exit pupil. And let's

930
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: say you had a rifle scope. Let's say it's a

931
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: variable scope. You have a turn to five X. And

932
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: let's just say you have a fifty millimeter bell out there.

933
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: If you divide that very simply, you get an exit

934
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 1: pupil of ten millimeters. I think every Yeah, that's pretty easy,

935
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: everybody can do that. Here's the thing to remember, though,

936
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 1: the ultimate limiting factor in all this is the pupil

937
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: of your eye. So that light has to come through

938
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: the scope and before it gets to your where you're

939
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: you know, the the optic nerve and your brain interprets it.

940
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,439
Speaker 1: It has to go through the pupil of your eye.

941
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: Even when you're young, in your eyes at their maximum flexibility,

942
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: you're going to get at best maybe seven millimeters. So

943
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: any an exit pupil that goes beyond seven millimeters, it

944
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 1: goes beyond the perimeter of your pupil. It's it's unusable.

945
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: So here's the thing that's fifty millimeter bell that that

946
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: example I just gave you. We came up with a

947
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: ten millimeter exit pupil. Well, your I cannot it can't

948
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: use tensi than you need. So you's the thing. You've

949
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: achieved the maximum though, right, you don't have to worry

950
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,879
Speaker 1: about the equipment. You've achieved the maximum, But you've spent

951
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: a little more for the skull. You have a heavier sculle,

952
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: and it's a taller scope, so it sits higher off

953
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,439
Speaker 1: the rifle. Your head placement may not be as nice

954
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: as it was with that forty millimeter bell, which hits

955
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: lower on the rifle. Now the fifty does where you

956
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 1: have to follow that though, you have to kind of

957
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: follow that rabbit trail of that. The fifty comes up

958
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 1: with an edge at the upper end of the magnification range.

959
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: So as you get say eight, ten, twelve, sixteen next,

960
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: now that fifty comes into play and makes a difference

961
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: out there. So you have to think about the size

962
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: of that lens in relation to the magnification that you

963
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 1: want to run. And that's the reason. You can look

964
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: at a little one to four variable that you know

965
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: from one power to four power, and that's it doesn't

966
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: go any higher than that. And they're typically matched up

967
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: with a twenty four millimeter lens. It's about an inch

968
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: in diameter. Looks small, but that that scope is just

969
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: as bright as as any equally priced fifty millimeter scope

970
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 1: at higher magnification. But you haven't gotten you haven't gotten

971
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 1: into site picture yet though well site picture will you

972
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 1: know that relates a lot to magnification lower lower powers

973
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: typically give you a wider field. They're easier to see.

974
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: Let's say you're comparing a four. You always see more

975
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 1: every all thing, everything you don't know you're you're see.

976
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 1: Another misconception is that that that big lens out there

977
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 1: gives you a wider field of view, and that's that

978
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:02,919
Speaker 1: all things being equal. Yeah, same manification saying you're saying

979
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: you can't always see more out the fifty. Now, many

980
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: many times you may not see any difference whatsoever between

981
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: the two of them. If it's a bright day, the

982
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,320
Speaker 1: image could look absolutely identical between the forty. And I

983
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: mean if I had my body run out of the

984
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: field and I directed, I'm looking through my scope, and

985
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, he's gonna shoot a scored a spray paint

986
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: on one edge and then shoot a scored a spray

987
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: paint the edge of the other edge of my view,

988
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 1: and I do the same thing with a forty. He's

989
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: gonna the spray paint is gonna lie with edge. It might.

990
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: That has nothing to do with the objective I want

991
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: to try. You want to try a neat tricks to you,

992
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: I'd like take a fifty millimeter scope out or any

993
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 1: scope and and restrict three quarters that objective lens cover it,

994
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: put a cover on, you could put a little pinhole

995
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 1: through it. On a bright day, field of view is

996
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: exactly the same change. Yeah, it's it's a great way

997
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: to illustrate. It's pretty neat. And actually, on a bright

998
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: sunny day, if you were to restrict that lens and

999
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 1: allow less light to come through, you see, the image

1000
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: quality would look better. Actually, it would get contrasting more defined.

1001
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: A lot of bent trest guys that do that sort

1002
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: of thing, they actually will restrict the aperture of their

1003
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: scopes on a bright day for those reasons. All right,

1004
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: So why is it? Though? I know, I think I

1005
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: was talking to the mark like, I'm not talking about that.

1006
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 1: I'm talking about what people want, right, people want fifties?

1007
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: They do? Are they just wrong? Many times they don't

1008
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:36,959
Speaker 1: get the whole picture, you know, the things we're talking

1009
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: about here, The fact that doesn't automatically mean it's brighter.

1010
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: It doesn't automatically have anything to do with field of view.

1011
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: You know, everybody wants a wide field of view and

1012
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: everybody wants a brighter image, but the fifty doesn't always

1013
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: get you that. And so what does what does it

1014
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 1: get you? So what he is what he gets you? Though?

1015
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 1: Think about back that exit puple discussion, and let's say

1016
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 1: we've got a four to sixteen scoll, very popular size

1017
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: for us. We a lot of them. It's like, in

1018
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: my mind is the perfect Yeah, it longer ranges. That's

1019
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: that scope is gonna be turned up to sixteen X

1020
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,280
Speaker 1: and use so you know you do that mass now

1021
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 1: and now even at sixteen X, you're you're underneath that seven.

1022
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: Your eye is gonna use every bit of light that

1023
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 1: can because dividing fifty five exactly. So now you're the

1024
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: point where, yeah, that fifties doing something for you. It's

1025
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,479
Speaker 1: it's making a noticeably brighter image that here's a question

1026
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: to make smoke comm oud of you, guys, ears or

1027
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 1: something people always ask. I mean often we'll say, like

1028
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 1: I predominantly hunt white tails. I'm gonna I'm gonna turn

1029
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 1: it into a specific but it's it's just like I'm

1030
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: averaging a ton of questions together. I live in Missouri,

1031
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: I generally hunt white tails. Every other year we go

1032
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: out to hunt elk in Colorado. Someday I'd like to

1033
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: go on a doll sheet hunt. I can't side what

1034
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 1: scope to buy. They have to you have to get

1035
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: phone calls like this, and that's and that's when I

1036
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 1: sell that person multiple rifle scopes. So yeah, so let

1037
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 1: let's deify the question. I mostly hunt white tails. Occasionally

1038
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: I'll do a Western big hunt, big game hunt. I

1039
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 1: can't be throwing tons of money at this stuff. I

1040
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: want to buy a scope. I want to get five, six,

1041
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 1: ten years out of it. What scope do I want? Well,

1042
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: that's a tricky one. I mean, that's that's tell him

1043
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: what scope you want. I could probably actually pick one

1044
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: from me out of our lineup that that for me

1045
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: would be the best fit. Can I guess first? Can

1046
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: I guess? Then you're honest guest. Then you guys tell

1047
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: us what you think. Okay, we'll critique. Oh you don't

1048
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: want to pick an actual model? No? No, no. If

1049
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 1: you want picking a magnification range, okay, no manification range,

1050
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: objective lens, oh, all around whitetail okay, hunts white till

1051
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: every year, Yeah they do. Okay. He goes out to Colorado. Oh,

1052
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: three D nine by forty okay, yeah, me too, probably four,

1053
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: just because I don't know why. So I'll give you

1054
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: I'll give you mine, and I concur with the four

1055
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,720
Speaker 1: to six team by fifty because to me, I find

1056
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 1: it to be like an incredibly versatile magnification range. And

1057
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 1: I always, I always I like magnification, right, so I'll

1058
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: edge towards the skill that has higher manifications. So but

1059
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: to me, that scope is like, it's awesome for the

1060
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: tree stand in the timber. You know, you can crank

1061
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: it down to four and then you can also you know,

1062
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: engage you know, targets or animals at extended ranges as well.

1063
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: I've shot the four to sixteen to a thousand yards

1064
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: and shot deer out of a tree stand with that

1065
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 1: same right. That's why I like the three nights kind

1066
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:00,040
Speaker 1: of the same thing. But when I'm walking around, I

1067
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 1: don't care where I'm walking around. I could be walking

1068
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,800
Speaker 1: around out in eastern Montana on the flattest ground in

1069
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: the world. I carry my scope on four because if

1070
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: you jump something up, I never wish in a in

1071
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: a practical honey experience, I'm talking like a deer stands

1072
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: up in thick ass brush twenty five yards away. I've

1073
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: never had on four power. I can find that thing.

1074
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: But I've raised enough rifles to my face where I

1075
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 1: don't do the like look for it. Like when I'm

1076
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: looking at something, my eye stays on it, my scope

1077
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: comes to my eye. My eye doesn't go to my scope.

1078
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: My scope comes to my eye, and that thing is

1079
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: right there in the center of the scope. I've never

1080
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: been I've never lost an animal or I would have

1081
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: gotten him with the one power scope, Like it's all

1082
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 1: I always can find. I can find running stuff in

1083
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: the four power scope. But when I'm sitting there and

1084
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: I see, like, holy sh it, there's like a deer

1085
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: laying over there. You know what's going on? Kresniki shotting there?

1086
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: Turn up to sixteen man. You see like his eyelashes

1087
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: and stuff. You know. It's just like I love having

1088
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: it there. I'm always looking at stuff do there? Yeah, Yeah,

1089
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: I mean I would agree with Mark. That's a really

1090
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: good effective zoom range. You can kind of do anything

1091
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: with it. I have a you know, I I spend

1092
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: a lot of time hunting in the mountains. I have

1093
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: a tendency to like lighter weight scope, so I would

1094
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: my personal choice would be to give up a little

1095
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: bit of that light gathering and go to a slightly

1096
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: smaller objective forty or forty two. Maybe, Um, you're gonna

1097
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: lose a little bit of weight. Um, you have that

1098
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: advantage that touched on earlier. Typically the smaller objective means

1099
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: the rifle can the scope can sit a little bit

1100
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: lower on the rifle, and that can aid you better

1101
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: head placement on the stock. You you you you probably

1102
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: will shoot a little more accurately with that. It's a

1103
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: pretty fine distinction though. You know, that's almost my my

1104
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: sort of personal lean as opposed to someone else's. Um,

1105
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: there's not you know, it's one of those things. Are

1106
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: definitely not a black or white right or wrong answer

1107
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: to that type of thing. You know, I'm willing to

1108
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: trade off this and gain that so much exactly. I mean,

1109
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 1: like I hunt the mountains a lot, and I'll I'll

1110
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 1: suck it up and take that that weight penalty because

1111
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: to me, like the magnification is like outweighs that advantage

1112
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 1: for myself. But you know a lot of stuff like

1113
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: Paul's is, like we're talking about that just comes down

1114
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: to personal preference. You know, I'm not as weight like,

1115
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 1: I'm not as weight obsessed some people are. Because I

1116
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 1: find that you can sit around talking all day. This

1117
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: is a little bit of a digression from from optics.

1118
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: Do you sit around talking all day like how many

1119
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 1: ounces you save by the scopeboard asco dude, you want

1120
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: to talk about save an ounces? Do you bring a

1121
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: tent or not bring a tent? Now we're talking about

1122
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: now we're talking about six Yeah, we're talking about six

1123
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: pounds now. So it's like I generally like, I don't

1124
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: you know like guys who are like cutting their toothbrush

1125
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: handle and half and stuff. I mean, you gotta get

1126
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 1: you have to have your kids so dialed at the

1127
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: point where you're where you're realizing that you're getting more

1128
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 1: miles every day because you ran that forty millimeter not

1129
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 1: the fifty millimeter scope. Like you have to be a

1130
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: very detail oriented backpack hunter with a ton of packing

1131
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 1: experience where that is the issue. There are some pieces

1132
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 1: of equipment when you think about when you're on a hunt.

1133
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: Let's say you're on an extended you know, eight ten

1134
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: day hunt. Did you carry every day all the time

1135
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: with you and there you know the rifles one of

1136
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: them that that you know, the tent set up. You're

1137
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: not packing that ten around everything. You're not packing so

1138
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 1: there are pieces of gear where shaving weight off is

1139
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 1: more valuable than others. In that sense, rifle you're gonna

1140
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 1: have with you all the time. I did a lot

1141
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: of hunting with a rifle that I was shocked one

1142
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 1: day when I put it on a digital scale and

1143
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: the rifle scope combo was twelve pounds nine ounces. I

1144
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: had totaled it all over. And then I got a

1145
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: rifle where the rifle scope combo came into eight and

1146
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 1: a half. It felt like I was carrying a chopstick.

1147
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 1: But you know, you know that that's leaving a tent

1148
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: or not. The flip side, too, is that a lot

1149
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: of times those heavy rifles are easier to shoot. Like

1150
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 1: so there's all there's there's so many different angles. My

1151
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: brother shoots a big like I actually gave it to him. Um,

1152
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: he shoots a big what's the what's the main ruger

1153
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: rifles like seventies things like it's a three d win

1154
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 1: big old thick barrel heavy stock. He carries the thing ever,

1155
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 1: because because you know what, when I laid that thing

1156
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 1: over my backpack, I looked at the scold like this

1157
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 1: thing is gonna die because it's like it just it's

1158
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 1: like it's like thump, you know, that rifle lays down

1159
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: there and you're not. He's like, I just settled and

1160
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I'll tear that bullets gone. And then

1161
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: light rifles you just never get that feeling I've had.

1162
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: I had a rifle that we're getting wet. This is

1163
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 1: the whole subject. I had a rifle, I decided it

1164
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 1: was too light, had a different barrel put on it,

1165
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 1: just because not nothing with accuracy. I had a different

1166
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 1: barrel put because I just couldn't stand how light it was.

1167
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 1: It never felt settled in. But let's jump the knockers,

1168
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: because there's not a whole lot to discus us on knockers.

1169
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: With numbers, people are always like ten, like the most

1170
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 1: obvious one, eight power, ten power or whatever. What's your

1171
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 1: spiel what's what? What? What's the vortex spiel Ford? Well,

1172
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 1: those are you know, those are the those are the

1173
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 1: two most popular magnifications sold eight and tenant And you know,

1174
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: for that simply refers to how many times that binocular

1175
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 1: is magnifying with your I S S. So in one

1176
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: instance something is eight times bigger, in the other instance

1177
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: it's ten times bigger. Not a big difference. You know,

1178
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 1: I think it's there. You want to think of the

1179
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: terrain in the country that you're using it in and

1180
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 1: and typically Western hunters definitely gravitate towards ten powered binos.

1181
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: You have a little extra edge, a little more magnification.

1182
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: You're using them at greater distances typically, and so that

1183
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 1: ability to magnify something a little bit larger is of benefit.

1184
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 1: The drawbacks to it are is the field of view,

1185
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 1: the image that we talked about that you were talking

1186
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: about earlier with the rifle scope. Typically in the tent X,

1187
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 1: if everything else is equal, it's going to be narrower.

1188
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:04,919
Speaker 1: You're gonna look at a smaller image when you're looking

1189
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: at something. So the guy with the spray paint cans,

1190
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 1: the guy with the spray paint cans, he's only going

1191
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 1: to see three quarters of what he could see in

1192
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: the eight power by now. And the other thing is

1193
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: that when you're trying to hold that binocular, what you're doing,

1194
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: you know, you're just picking up in your hands and

1195
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 1: holding it. The higher the magnification is, the harder is

1196
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: to hold that thing steady. It's gonna wiggle in your hands.

1197
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: And if you carry that to an extreme and you

1198
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: looked at a twelve or fifteen power binocular and you

1199
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 1: try to hand hold it, that image is gonna be

1200
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 1: wiggly and shaky, and so you lose some of the

1201
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: benefit of having that magnification ten x is it's to

1202
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:40,480
Speaker 1: the point most people can hold him pretty steady, comfortably.

1203
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: I disagree on this one thing. I have a very

1204
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: firm opinion on about this. I find that I used

1205
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: to not be able to freehand tense. Yeah, I know

1206
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 1: where you're going. I learned. I learned to freehand tense. Yeah, sure,

1207
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: I don't think. I really don't think anyone can freehand

1208
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 1: a pair of twelve powers with all the game. Well

1209
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 1: you can, but it's just free. There's gonna be a loss.

1210
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: There's gonna be lost. And obviously, you know you're a

1211
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: big fan of tripod use. We certainly are too. I

1212
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: grew up doing that as well, using any of these

1213
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: baculars on a tripod. Taking your hands out of the equation,

1214
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: huge difference, giganic difference. Obviously, can realize that, yeah, you

1215
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: put the things on a tripod, like a pair of

1216
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 1: tens a tripod, like powers on a tripod, they're fast

1217
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: proved more effective once I started tripod glassing, Like, now

1218
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 1: I don't like it if I'm not Tripod's annoying. Yeah,

1219
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:40,920
Speaker 1: it realized all the stuff you're missing. Like when I

1220
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: when I had cous here for the first time, that's

1221
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 1: when I was like really introduced to you know, hardcore

1222
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: tripod glassing, like really tearing the country side apart. And

1223
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: that's actually like affected all my other hunting, Like I

1224
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:57,120
Speaker 1: apply that to all my western hunting. Yeah, because you're like, oh, hey,

1225
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 1: there's a quail a mile away over there, but just

1226
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: aw run between two bushes. You've never seen that thing,

1227
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 1: you know. But back to the eight tending, I will

1228
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 1: often say, and I'm gonna let you have the last

1229
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: word of this. I'll often tell people, if I had

1230
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 1: to really be super general, if you hunt like the

1231
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 1: east east of the Big Bend in the Missouri, I'd

1232
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 1: be like, eight. Yeah, good advice that the and the

1233
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 1: and the guy with the eight he's not gonna go

1234
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 1: wrong if he takes that eight power out west and

1235
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: hunts it's it's gonna work. Just funny. I wouldn't, Yeah,

1236
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,959
Speaker 1: you wouldn't. Yeah, I know we're on the same page

1237
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 1: on that. But talk about twelves, fifteens, all the craziest.

1238
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: So what happens is, you know, will agree to disagree

1239
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: on tense. I think that's the that is definitely. Do

1240
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 1: you think anyone can free hand a pair of tense not?

1241
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: Not to the same level of effectiveness. No, definitely not.

1242
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't say anybody can pick up a

1243
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 1: pair of tens and they're gonna be effective with it.

1244
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: You really have to, you know, as you point out,

1245
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 1: sort of learn the tricks. You're gonna you know, you're

1246
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: gonna tuck your elbows, you're gonna brace your hands, you're

1247
01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: gonna hold on your hat. You find ways to help

1248
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 1: stabilize that by no or that. What do you call

1249
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 1: when you can screw the eye cups in and out? Well,

1250
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 1: that that would be something you would set whether you

1251
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:10,920
Speaker 1: were eyeglasses or not. But I find I used to

1252
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: dial them all the way in and then put my

1253
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 1: finger for stability, that I put my finger on my

1254
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:22,439
Speaker 1: eyebrow and bring the cup to my finger. It would

1255
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 1: get a lot of stability like that. Now I find

1256
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 1: that I screw them all the way out, and I

1257
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 1: just kind of have a sweet spot where screwed all

1258
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: the way out. I just know where they're supposed to

1259
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 1: be in my eye socket, and it's just like shooting

1260
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 1: a bow where you have the same anchor point. When

1261
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 1: I bring my bandacres up, like I know how that

1262
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 1: I cut feels and I get great. I would definitely

1263
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 1: you know that that is absolutely one of those tricks.

1264
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: You know when I when I talk about using tents,

1265
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 1: you you they have to touch your face if you're

1266
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: just holding them out in space and they're off of

1267
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 1: your face and floating there. Yeah, I mean I agree

1268
01:06:56,640 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 1: with you completely. They are you know, very hard to use.

1269
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: You have to brace, they have to touch your face.

1270
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: You know, I tended I have more deep set eyes.

1271
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: I tended. I mean, driving pretty hard on my my

1272
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,919
Speaker 1: eyebrow ridge. But that's all you know, that's what's helping

1273
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 1: stabilize them and make him steady. You know when you

1274
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: let like a picture that you're trying to look into

1275
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 1: a window with your hands where you make that little like, yeah,

1276
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:21,920
Speaker 1: you kind of like you find ways of doing that

1277
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 1: that gives you law stability with your right and that

1278
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 1: you know, having your hands up there too. You know

1279
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: you're blacking that sidelight, that lateral light from coming in

1280
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 1: on him. But once you go beyond tend, you know,

1281
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:33,439
Speaker 1: it's pretty much it's black and white. At that point,

1282
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 1: you're you're into the zone. Now that that really you're

1283
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 1: going to get the most benefit by using a tripod.

1284
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: Ryan Callahan three hands, and I've done honestly, I talk

1285
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 1: bad about him behind his back. Yeah, I've done it too,

1286
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:54,560
Speaker 1: because we're like, there's no way he's pretty as he

1287
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 1: sat down behind him on a on a tripod and

1288
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: he's done. He's done. He's like an eyed he's done

1289
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: a ton of hunt. In our defense, we knew it

1290
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 1: behind his back. We also do it to his face.

1291
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: I'll be like, dude, you can't honestly tell me that

1292
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 1: you're free hand. He likes to set up with a tripod.

1293
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 1: His deal is this, likes to look through a tripod

1294
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:19,600
Speaker 1: on a mountain hunt, backpack hunt. He doesn't want to

1295
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 1: carry too loves doing. He spends most of his time

1296
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:27,759
Speaker 1: tripod knocking. So yeah, if he's walking up the trail

1297
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 1: and something catches his eye, short quick clip, he'll have

1298
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 1: a short quick look. I ran the same pros and cons,

1299
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I value that. What is that quick look?

1300
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 1: To the point where I'm I'm willing to suffer behind

1301
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:48,679
Speaker 1: the tripod in order to have like a more stable

1302
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: quick look. Yeah you're well, you're you know, you're definitely

1303
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: gonna get more detailed doing that. Absolutely, you know, he

1304
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:58,639
Speaker 1: he may be able to quickly ide an animal, but yeah,

1305
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 1: you know it's he's not going to see the level

1306
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: of detail that he will do. He's like, he's like

1307
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 1: that bears eight and a half, not eight. Before I

1308
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 1: started really picking apart the hillside cous deer hunting and

1309
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:13,480
Speaker 1: elk hunting in Arizona, I learned these binoculars in Colorado

1310
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: from the my the senior guys that I worked with,

1311
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:20,439
Speaker 1: and their whole thing was, as we're still hunting through

1312
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:23,679
Speaker 1: quaky patches or the edge of quakies and timber looking

1313
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:25,720
Speaker 1: for elk they were coming out to feed, They're just like,

1314
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 1: always just bring up your binoculars. Being up your binoculars,

1315
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: you can only see eight yards with your eyes, a

1316
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:31,920
Speaker 1: hundred yards of your eyes. As soon as you bring

1317
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: up those binoculars, you just X rayed another thirty yards.

1318
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:38,560
Speaker 1: And that's where those eight intense. I feel like, just

1319
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 1: really that's what we hadn't gotten. You could be still

1320
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 1: hunting for snowshoe hairs. I feel do even like that's

1321
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 1: a whole It's great you bring it up because that's

1322
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:50,760
Speaker 1: like a who older kind of but not like all

1323
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,639
Speaker 1: this tripod talk and all that, not being like, oh,

1324
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:58,000
Speaker 1: can I extend my vision? It'd be like, what's fifty

1325
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 1: yards away? Binoculars have great Like you ask any burder

1326
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:04,560
Speaker 1: people who will look at birds, They're like, they're like, no,

1327
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:06,640
Speaker 1: I'm talking about what's I'm looking at a bird ten

1328
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: yards away? Man, But I want to know is it

1329
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 1: you know, does you have like a slight yellow crown?

1330
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 1: You know, So that's the whole other aspect of of

1331
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 1: using binoculars is like finding deer in the brush, right

1332
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:23,639
Speaker 1: that they're laying right in hiding in plain slight right. Yeah,

1333
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 1: And that's you know, that's the reason that you know,

1334
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 1: people will end up with different sizes of binos. And

1335
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 1: you know, going back to the rifle scopes, you know

1336
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 1: that we sell guys four or five six different rifle

1337
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:36,400
Speaker 1: scopes because at the point that you can afford to

1338
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:38,600
Speaker 1: do that kind of thing, of course, you can, you know,

1339
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 1: you can key on specialties doing it. So when a

1340
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:43,640
Speaker 1: guy's saying like when a guy's kicking around, he's like,

1341
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:47,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna buy eight. So let's say eight by thirty two.

1342
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:49,600
Speaker 1: How does it usually go like? There's usually like a

1343
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 1: round thirty, some variability around forty around fifty objective lens. Yeah,

1344
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 1: that's pretty common. And when you hear when someone says

1345
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 1: eight by forty eight by are, what they're talking about

1346
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 1: is eight power fifty millimeter objective lens, right, just the

1347
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: same way the rifle scopes were on that. If you're

1348
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:13,439
Speaker 1: weighing between forty and fifty objective lens, is it fair

1349
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:17,599
Speaker 1: to say you're just asking yourself a weight, a weight

1350
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:23,879
Speaker 1: and clunkiness versus image quality or is it more complicated

1351
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 1: than that. It's maybe a little more complicated than that.

1352
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:28,599
Speaker 1: You know you can you can use those same exit

1353
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:32,639
Speaker 1: pupil numbers we talked about earlier, dividing magnification into objective

1354
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:34,560
Speaker 1: lens size to get kind of a crude way of

1355
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 1: estimating brightness. And typically the binos are all they're not

1356
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 1: going to go much beyond that that's seven millimeter range,

1357
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: so they're typically they're all going to give you a

1358
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:48,560
Speaker 1: workable range where there's concrete benefit from going from that

1359
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:50,840
Speaker 1: thirty two to the forty, to the forty two to

1360
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 1: the fifty. But for each user you have to you know,

1361
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 1: you have to decide on that because as that lens

1362
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:01,759
Speaker 1: goes from thirty to forty to fifty, you can envision

1363
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: that the size and the weight of that binocular go

1364
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 1: up correspondingly. So while you do, you know, you do

1365
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:11,960
Speaker 1: increase the low light performance by doing that, you you know,

1366
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 1: you're carrying packing around a larger, heavier binocular, typically a

1367
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,719
Speaker 1: longer binocular when you go to those bigger objective lenses.

1368
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 1: So there's always a there's a there's just a trade

1369
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 1: off in there, and and everybody comes in at a

1370
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 1: different spot. Someone who would buy a you know, a

1371
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 1: lower power binocular with a big objective lens, obviously you're

1372
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:33,680
Speaker 1: buying something there that's made to really be focused on

1373
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: low light performance, and the tradeoff is it's probably going

1374
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 1: to be a bigger, heavier binocular. You know, that's not

1375
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 1: all that practical during daytime use. So it's you know,

1376
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 1: it's a matter of picking what matches what you're doing,

1377
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:52,479
Speaker 1: you know, what what activity are you doing. I found

1378
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 1: that through the years, as I've gotten more interested in

1379
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 1: glass and more interested in glassing and optics. I found

1380
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:02,679
Speaker 1: that I've gone. I've tended to go in binoculars higher

1381
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 1: magnificate from eight to tens than bigger objected lens. Yeah,

1382
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:10,320
Speaker 1: part of it was switching to a binol carrier. Makes

1383
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 1: a binal carrier like just around your neck. You feel

1384
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 1: those ounces in a binyl Carrier's kind of like Honestly,

1385
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 1: if I'm walking around my bino carry on and you

1386
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 1: and you, I couldn't tell you if you like secretly

1387
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 1: switched mind to a fifty, I wouldn't know. Nfi I

1388
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 1: pulled him out. It's just it's just like it's just

1389
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:33,479
Speaker 1: not there. It's like the weights distributed when you're crawling.

1390
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,000
Speaker 1: They're not like banging you in the nose, and very

1391
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 1: valuable piece of gear. You wind up getting a good

1392
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:40,559
Speaker 1: carrier and you can carry a hell of a lot

1393
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 1: more binocular It just doesn't bother you. That's one other

1394
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 1: thing we should hit on really quickly, Steve, because as

1395
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:47,680
Speaker 1: we've chatted through this, I keep meaning to say that.

1396
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 1: And one of the things you know, for example, in

1397
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:53,719
Speaker 1: our lines of binoculars, we have four or five different

1398
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 1: tiers and you see the same size, say that ten

1399
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 1: by forty two, repeated in one series and the next,

1400
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 1: next to the next, and the next, and we get

1401
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 1: that question a lot about why is that what different

1402
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:11,200
Speaker 1: ten forty two's And what's really important for people understand

1403
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 1: when we talk about brightness and exit pupils and these

1404
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 1: quick ways of calculating that the one thing that they

1405
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 1: can't take in effect or take into consideration is the

1406
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:24,679
Speaker 1: quality of the piece and the user or the fellow

1407
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: applying those mathematical formulas. So you could you could take

1408
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:31,160
Speaker 1: let's say, let's say it at tend by fifty binocular

1409
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 1: fairly common size. You do the math, you have that

1410
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 1: five millimeter exit pupil. You let's say you you took

1411
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:40,719
Speaker 1: a binocular that may be retailed for a hundred dollars

1412
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:43,599
Speaker 1: and contrasted that with a high end binocular to say,

1413
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:48,559
Speaker 1: retailed for two thousand dollars, same exit people exactly between

1414
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:51,560
Speaker 1: the two of those that five millimeter exit pupil. And

1415
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:55,400
Speaker 1: so someone might say, well, that's the same number. These

1416
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 1: should be equally bright binoculars, right they you know, they

1417
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 1: both come out ahead in the same formula. But the

1418
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 1: thing about optics is the quality of glass it's used

1419
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:05,720
Speaker 1: in the quality of the coatings that are applied to

1420
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 1: that glass, and how many of those codings are applied,

1421
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 1: and the the you know, the design of the optic,

1422
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 1: the layout of the lenses, how many lenses are used

1423
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: in there. Those are all at least as important as

1424
01:15:19,200 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 1: those simplistic numbers of calculating exit people. And that there's

1425
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 1: no way you can't you can't build that into that formula,

1426
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 1: and so that expensive to him by fifty very typically

1427
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:34,320
Speaker 1: is going to drastically outperform that, you know, that less

1428
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 1: expensive model. Is it easier for you guys to answer

1429
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 1: the question what makes shitty optics shitty or what makes

1430
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 1: good optics good? I think it's easier to concentrate on

1431
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:51,640
Speaker 1: the on the goods. Well get all the time, like

1432
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 1: why the hell would I spend because they look better? Yeah,

1433
01:15:56,439 --> 01:16:00,840
Speaker 1: it's you know, if you can what it is, Yeah,

1434
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:04,719
Speaker 1: you know, building the things. If you can build something

1435
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 1: tighter and the mechanical tolerances are tighter and those lenses

1436
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:11,679
Speaker 1: are more precisely held in a line, it's gonna increase

1437
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 1: optical performance. It's gonna make the piece more expensive to build.

1438
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 1: Whether it's a bocular, it could, ye, sure it could. Yeah,

1439
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 1: the quality of the glass it's used. You know, there's

1440
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:24,439
Speaker 1: glasses is a simple commodity. It can it can be

1441
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:28,160
Speaker 1: had in very low end for formulations that are full

1442
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 1: of chromatic aberration and distortion. It varies widely. Coatings that

1443
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,600
Speaker 1: are applied to the glass have a huge effect and

1444
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 1: that and what codings do is they they reduce light

1445
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 1: loss to reflection. So it's light hits a lens, a

1446
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 1: certain amount of it is reflected back off that lens

1447
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:50,680
Speaker 1: rather than going through it into your eye. And so

1448
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: any reflective coatings reduce that and they allow more the

1449
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:56,599
Speaker 1: light to come through. And so the higher the quality

1450
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:59,839
Speaker 1: of that coding, and by increasing the number of layers

1451
01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: of that that are applied, you keep bumping up that

1452
01:17:03,439 --> 01:17:06,760
Speaker 1: that light transmission number. That's where you get that term,

1453
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 1: you know, fully multi coded opting. You see that catalogs

1454
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:11,200
Speaker 1: all the time, and I feel like that's one of

1455
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:13,800
Speaker 1: the things that just way over people's heads, idiots, you

1456
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:15,760
Speaker 1: know what kind of you see it so often used

1457
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 1: that it just kind of blurs into the background. That's

1458
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 1: what it means. That's what it means. Loss is the idea. Yeah, um,

1459
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:34,280
Speaker 1: how long we've been talking to Okay, Doug concluding thoughts questions,

1460
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:37,800
Speaker 1: doing it off quiet? Well, if you just said, they're

1461
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:41,880
Speaker 1: replaying that awesome turkey out this morning, it was how

1462
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:45,720
Speaker 1: can that Steve Gut just talk to those turkeys? Well,

1463
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 1: it was, it was, It was incredible. But U and

1464
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 1: I certainly have a new appreciation for you, or enhanced

1465
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:59,719
Speaker 1: the wider appreciation. I learned a lot about optics today.

1466
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:05,160
Speaker 1: Before this discussion, I was thinking about this Charlie Brown

1467
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 1: cartoon about are you near sighted or far sighted? One

1468
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: of the like Lionus has classes on him and he said, well,

1469
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 1: I don't know what does that mean. And they said, well,

1470
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 1: nearsighted means that you see things close. And they're kind

1471
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:23,240
Speaker 1: of explaining to him, and uh, he says, glasses make

1472
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:29,679
Speaker 1: me see better. So all of this I was learning

1473
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:34,719
Speaker 1: what I know about. Boil it down, that's good optics

1474
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 1: make me see better. Bam. Yeah, you're it's a leap

1475
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:42,120
Speaker 1: of faith, like you're sort of know it's not a

1476
01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 1: leap of faith because I had this like I had

1477
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 1: this moment in my life that I always thought about

1478
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:50,559
Speaker 1: where I never had good knocultors. Okay, I've never had

1479
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:52,120
Speaker 1: It's that what I say him it's not what I

1480
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 1: had tons of money laying around. I just didn't have

1481
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 1: money therefore didn't have good bnocutors. I was hunting caribou

1482
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:01,080
Speaker 1: this guy, and he had it's got done guiding on

1483
01:19:01,200 --> 01:19:03,120
Speaker 1: the Alaska Peninsula for a year and some At the

1484
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:04,880
Speaker 1: end of the guiding season, he came into a pair

1485
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:06,920
Speaker 1: of good bnoctors were sitting in our caribou camp. A

1486
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 1: grizzly bears walking up the bank on the opposite of

1487
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 1: the river. I'm looking at it's like a brown blob.

1488
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 1: I throw up chuck knockers and I looked through it

1489
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:19,080
Speaker 1: and I can see cow licks moving across the bear

1490
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:21,639
Speaker 1: from the wind. Yeah, and I'm like, let me see

1491
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:25,840
Speaker 1: that again. I had an epiphany like that too. I

1492
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 1: you know, my background is guiding. I guided for many

1493
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 1: many years in the state Idoa before doing this, and

1494
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:35,320
Speaker 1: I followed the same course. I went from incrementally increasing

1495
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 1: the quality of my optics every year. And I had

1496
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 1: an epiphany. One year I was hunting with a couple

1497
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 1: of great, big, overweight to Hawaiian guys that showed up

1498
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:45,600
Speaker 1: with piles of brand new gear in boxes and we

1499
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:47,880
Speaker 1: sat out the evening. We came into camp. It was

1500
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:50,720
Speaker 1: an elkhant climbed up on a ridge just that night

1501
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:53,519
Speaker 1: to climb out and look. And I had a mid

1502
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,960
Speaker 1: priced pair of I think it was Pentacs binoculars at time, decent,

1503
01:19:57,080 --> 01:19:59,880
Speaker 1: decent optics. And this guy pulls out out of his case,

1504
01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 1: this this big boxy hard case, and he flips it open,

1505
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 1: and he's got a brand new pair of like As,

1506
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:07,760
Speaker 1: which is very nice, high end brand of optics, and

1507
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:10,200
Speaker 1: he pulls them out and we're at that point, we're

1508
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:12,879
Speaker 1: looking into kind of a low setting sound, tough, tough glassing,

1509
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 1: and I'm sort of struggling to see much because I'm

1510
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:18,720
Speaker 1: getting all kinds of reflections coming into my binoculars. And this,

1511
01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:22,560
Speaker 1: this great, big guy with zero Western hunting experience whatsoever,

1512
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:27,840
Speaker 1: picks this pair of binoculars out of this box. Minutes

1513
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: he's picking out elk coming out of the trees, and

1514
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:31,680
Speaker 1: I just I couldn't believe it. I thought he was

1515
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:34,400
Speaker 1: seeing things. It just could not believe. And I had

1516
01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:36,720
Speaker 1: finally had to reach over and look through his binoculars

1517
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:38,679
Speaker 1: and and it just it was stunning, you know, low

1518
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 1: and behold, I mean elk here and out there and

1519
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:44,360
Speaker 1: out there, and that at that. I mean, I still

1520
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:47,560
Speaker 1: remember that to this day. It was it really it

1521
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:49,360
Speaker 1: was like me. I came out of there being like

1522
01:20:49,439 --> 01:20:51,559
Speaker 1: I don't care what, I don't care if I got

1523
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:56,600
Speaker 1: to move into a new apartment. I'm from that point on,

1524
01:20:56,840 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 1: I saved every tip I had for two years, and

1525
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 1: I bought a pair of the exact same. Like my

1526
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:06,559
Speaker 1: takeaway and I can take it from what you guys

1527
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:08,679
Speaker 1: both just said. It will be my closing statement will

1528
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:11,559
Speaker 1: be that to really see that both of you guys

1529
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:15,480
Speaker 1: describe experiences that happened in the field in certain situations,

1530
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 1: certain light. A lot of these. A lot of people

1531
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:22,720
Speaker 1: go to Dicks or the Big five and or Sportsman's

1532
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 1: and compare binoculars inside underfluorescent lights at you know, max

1533
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:29,519
Speaker 1: range of whatever that is maybe sorry trying to read

1534
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:33,240
Speaker 1: the end caps and they all look great, and they

1535
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 1: do not look great when you're looking into that setting sun.

1536
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:39,640
Speaker 1: It makes a huge, huge difference. So yeah, well you

1537
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:41,960
Speaker 1: just buy a bunch of stuff in vortex. No one,

1538
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 1: you're gonna return it all like I want one everything.

1539
01:21:50,479 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 1: A couple of days later, this massive it's except editors

1540
01:21:55,400 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 1: marked that that's at one. Go to your sporting store

1541
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:05,240
Speaker 1: and be nice, seem reasonable, offer to leave your driver's

1542
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:06,880
Speaker 1: license and and see if you can go out in

1543
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:08,280
Speaker 1: the park and not have a look and try to

1544
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:10,160
Speaker 1: do it, you know, late in today, early in the morning,

1545
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:12,679
Speaker 1: Like you know, don't just look at the end cap

1546
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 1: down the road, down the but go out. See you

1547
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 1: go outside, look at it. Try to go look at

1548
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 1: a bird. Do his feathers look sharp, to the point

1549
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:25,120
Speaker 1: of his beak look clear? I'll say this, and Mark

1550
01:22:25,200 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 1: Boran concluding this, Well, this is just my one concluding

1551
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:31,400
Speaker 1: thought is that whether I work for an optics company

1552
01:22:31,479 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 1: or not or whatever, I what I work for Vortex.

1553
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:39,639
Speaker 1: Good quality optics are unequivocally one of the most important

1554
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:42,280
Speaker 1: pieces of gear. And you're hunting arsenal, dude, I I

1555
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:46,639
Speaker 1: know I've had like three concluding thoughts. I absolutely agree.

1556
01:22:48,160 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 1: I absolutely I would rather if you told me you

1557
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:56,160
Speaker 1: can hunt with boots and no binoculars or barefoot with binoculars,

1558
01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:59,160
Speaker 1: I would have a very difficult patch. I'd be like,

1559
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 1: how about I get socks, Paul, including thoughts. No, I mean,

1560
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:08,760
Speaker 1: I think we've touched on a lot of great things here.

1561
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,600
Speaker 1: I mean it's hopefully it's been abuse to some of

1562
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 1: your listeners out there, and um, oh yeah, I want

1563
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:17,680
Speaker 1: to say thank you for just unbelievable job explaining some

1564
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 1: of those like millimeter bell thing. I mean, that was

1565
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:23,400
Speaker 1: awesome and I enjoyed chanting about you know, we I

1566
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:26,040
Speaker 1: just talked about that, that experience I had in the field,

1567
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:29,920
Speaker 1: and really at that point it to me that sort

1568
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:31,800
Speaker 1: of set a real interest in optics from that point

1569
01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:33,880
Speaker 1: out use him and I percussed in a hunting for

1570
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:37,439
Speaker 1: big horn cheap, which is extremely optics intensive. You know,

1571
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 1: I've had that interest in love and that ever since.

1572
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:41,519
Speaker 1: So it's I enjoyed talking about it. It's been a

1573
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 1: lot of fun. Not now I have something concrete to

1574
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:46,519
Speaker 1: refer when people ask these questions, will just be like,

1575
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:52,120
Speaker 1: if you have an hour and thirty minutes the internet connection,

1576
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:55,000
Speaker 1: I'll be happy to answer that question for you. All right,

1577
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:59,280
Speaker 1: Um yeah, go to go to hunt dot com by

1578
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:06,760
Speaker 1: the teach shirts so you look cool. Um, Doug, if

1579
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:10,519
Speaker 1: you land you want to manage low and Oak Interests?

1580
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:12,519
Speaker 1: Is that is your company named after that oak over there?

1581
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:15,519
Speaker 1: Yes it is. I'm looking at the damn oak right now.

1582
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:21,160
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, lowing out, Uh, call for if you

1583
01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 1: could have a guy. I want one last thing I

1584
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:25,200
Speaker 1: want to touch on. If a guy has a question,

1585
01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:30,000
Speaker 1: he calls Vortex, someone answers the phone. This this is

1586
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 1: gonna sound awful, but someone who's like fluent in English

1587
01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:37,400
Speaker 1: answers the phone absolutely, and they're welcome to the same

1588
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:40,280
Speaker 1: questions we've been talking about here. Anyone can call in

1589
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 1: and ask any of those questions or you know, any

1590
01:24:43,080 --> 01:24:45,000
Speaker 1: number of us there that are happy to help out.

1591
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:51,439
Speaker 1: And if the warranty you have it's good for any

1592
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:56,160
Speaker 1: optics in your line or not. Yes, absolutely, like you

1593
01:24:56,320 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 1: buy it's just something not right, it's the warranty is cool,

1594
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,640
Speaker 1: it's it's it's yeah. It covers the original buyer and

1595
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:07,200
Speaker 1: anyone else down the road that buys it. It covers

1596
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:12,920
Speaker 1: anything really outside of losing it. What we're having we've

1597
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:15,720
Speaker 1: seen come in with bullet hole, so we've already seen it.

1598
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:19,120
Speaker 1: That's that's a true story. So but any like like

1599
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:22,080
Speaker 1: I like that, like the razor stuff is great. By'm saying,

1600
01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:25,880
Speaker 1: if someone just can't pull that off financially, he gets

1601
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:30,280
Speaker 1: a same warranty. Absolutely absolutely doesn't that that has nothing

1602
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 1: to do with it. So what's you know, so sort

1603
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:35,519
Speaker 1: of losing them once you buy them. You're cool, You're covered.

1604
01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:41,400
Speaker 1: You are covered all right, um okay good. Thanks for

1605
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:42,240
Speaker 1: joining us to take care