1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with a 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: classic episode. This one goes out to all our friends 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: in Idaho. 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, in an Idaho state of mind, or just in 5 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 2: the state, the forty third state. 6 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, in fact it is the forty third state. 7 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: And I gotta check. Guys, we know each other pretty 8 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: well at this point. Have any of us been to Idaho, 9 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: Not that I can recall. 10 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 3: I have driven through it, and I was going from 11 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 3: Seattle to Denver when I does trip years ago and 12 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 3: which involved I went through Montana and stuff. And I 13 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 3: will tell you right now, I had zero expectations. I 14 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 3: was leaving Spokane. Spokane's gorgeous place. I had no expectations 15 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 3: of Idaho whatsoever, at least the northern part. I didn't 16 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 3: go through the heart of it. 17 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 2: Beautiful. Absolutely, Idaho's more west, right, It's just like it's right. 18 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 3: So the smoke stack is right between Washington and Montana. 19 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: So go go west, go west, and then go north 20 00:00:57,840 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: for a while, young man. 21 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: Indeed, it's on top of Nevada. Uh huh, Okay, there 22 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 2: you go. Clearly I'm excellent a geography. 23 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. And one of the things we found back in 24 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen when we originally recorded this episode. Is that 25 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: we've all accepted the word Idaho as a normalized thing, 26 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: and then surely. 27 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: It's referring to some sort of native tradition, right. 28 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: Right, or as my patter familius used to say, no Idaho, 29 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: U Daho. 30 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: Of course, I think we all had a dat or 31 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 2: two that dropped that one on us. But it turns 32 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 2: out that it's a little more hilarious and complicated than 33 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 2: just naming it after like a native tribe like I 34 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 2: think we're often used to. 35 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: Yes, well said, Let's roll the tape. Ridiculous History is 36 00:01:49,520 --> 00:02:18,279 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show, Ridiculous Historians. 37 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: Longtime listeners amongst us may remember that some time ago, 38 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: my co hosts, our super producer, Casey Pegram, and I 39 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: decided that we were going to hell or high water 40 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: do one episode for every state in the US. And 41 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: we're sticking to our guns, or attempting to. We're not 42 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: going to Sufyan Stevens this right. No, you say that 43 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: every time, then, right? I know, I just want him 44 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: to make the other what forty eight albums? 45 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I don't think he ever intended 46 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 2: to do any of that. And plus, you know, to 47 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: be fair, doing a thirty minute podcast on a day 48 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: is a lot different than doing like a, you know, 49 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: an album. So let's give Sufian a break. 50 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: You're Noel, And perhaps it depends on how much work 51 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: goes into an album. 52 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: Right, his records are quite barokee. 53 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: Yes, he's going for baroque every time. So today's episode 54 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: is a little bit of a weird one. We are 55 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: talking about an origin story, but not so much an 56 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: origin story of a state as an origin story of 57 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: a state's name. 58 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, to feel what's in a name turns out quite 59 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 2: a lot and a lot of disagreement and a lot 60 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 2: of fraudulent claims and all kinds of stuff. This is, 61 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: you know, on the surface, seems like it could be 62 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 2: a dry episode. Not the case, my friend, not the 63 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: case quite juicy. Yeah, and there's a bit of a 64 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: mystery here as well. I guess one of the best 65 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: ways for us to start off today's episode is just 66 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: by acknowledging something that is an unspoken. 67 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: Truth here in the US. State names are weird. They 68 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: feel relatively arbitrary at times, and there's not a of cohesive, 69 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: coherent logic or uniformity involved. Right, You've got like New York. Right, 70 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: that makes sense. There was another York somewhere and this 71 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: is the new one, right, clearly, the better York. It's clearly, 72 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: it's definitely the latest model. There's no new New York. 73 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: But then there are states like Mississippi. There are states 74 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: like Hawaii. There are states like I don't know, I 75 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: don't know. How do you feel about this? The states 76 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 1: that are named in relation to other states. North Dakota, 77 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: South Dakota. 78 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: Seems like a cop out to me. 79 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: There's no just Dakota. No, yeah, exactly, North Carolina, South Carolina. 80 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, Carolina believe was named after a monarch. 81 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. And then oddly enough, Virginia and West Virginia. There's 82 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: no East Virginia. Also true, that's weird, they could. It's 83 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: a weird thing. 84 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 2: Well because, as it turns out, most of these state 85 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 2: names were done by committee. So as as typically happens 86 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: when things are done by committee, you end up with 87 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: something convoluted that no one really liked that much, but 88 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: people kind of settle on. 89 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Like in the nineteen ninety six Olympics here 90 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Georgia. 91 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 2: With a creepy mascot. 92 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, what was that guy's name? 93 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:12,679 Speaker 2: What's it? Izzy? 94 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: Isy? Thank you? 95 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 2: So, Yeah, he sort of looks like a weird little 96 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,799 Speaker 2: like a he's like a blue drop. He's a blued 97 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: like exactly, like a blue droplet of water, with like 98 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: Saturn rings around him and big tennis shoes. 99 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: They're the Olympic rings. 100 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: Now I'm sorry, excuse me, of course they are. How 101 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: could I be so foolish? But that's the point. It 102 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 2: was so random looking, you know, they didn't even read 103 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 2: that way to me. 104 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just, uh it was guided by committee, 105 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: probably some overpriced market agency. 106 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So someone's like, he's got to have shoes, 107 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: he's got to have the rings somewhere, and he's got 108 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 2: to be a weird little water droplet alien guy because. 109 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: People wear shoes, they get thirsty and wear at the Olympics, 110 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: and they love aliens. 111 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 2: They love aliens. Izzy that was his name? Huh? I 112 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: forgot that completely turns out as short for Israel. 113 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: Is it? 114 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 2: No? 115 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: Is it it? 116 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: But that is our a wonderful it guy or at 117 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 2: how stuff works goes by Izzy, which is short for Israel. Yes, 118 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 2: that is true. 119 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: I call the name I use with is depends upon 120 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: the severity or immediacy of the request. 121 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 2: Yes, so it is. 122 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: If we're just hanging out, it's easy. If we're hanging 123 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: out outside of work and it's Israel, if it's like 124 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: in an email other people reading, he escalated, Yeah, he 125 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: and I both have to be grown ups. So the 126 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: name Idaho that fits in right in this weird motley 127 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 1: crew of various fifty various names that came about for 128 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: various reasons, often, as you said, by committee. But unlike 129 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: many other states, it's difficult for us to figure out 130 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,559 Speaker 1: exactly what the name means. We're telling you the truth, 131 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: folks here in twenty nineteen. One of the most intriguing 132 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: mysteries of Idaho history is the origin and meaning of 133 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: the name, the name of the state in which you 134 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: might be listening to this episode right now. So, Noel, 135 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: have you ever been to Idaho? 136 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: No, I haven't been, And you know what this is. 137 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to put it out there right now. In 138 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 2: my mind, I sometimes confuse it with Ohio because of 139 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: the name, and I know they are geographically it couldn't 140 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 2: be less related. I am not good at geography, though, 141 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: my friends, I am here to tell you that right now, 142 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,679 Speaker 2: So Ben, give us the scoop on the geography of Idaho. 143 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: Sure. So, Idaho is bordered on to the west by 144 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: Washington and Oregon to the east, Montana, Wyoming, and Nevada 145 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: and Utah to the south, and then at the very 146 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: small attenuated top of the state, boom, it runs straight 147 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: into Canada. 148 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 2: I've heard of that. 149 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Casey Pegrim, super producer, Casey Pegrim, have you 150 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: ever been to Idaho? No? 151 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 4: My only I was just thinking about this. My only 152 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 4: like association with Idaho in general is an early built 153 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 4: a spell song called Twin Falls Idaho. 154 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: Oh wow, I mean there's also my own Private Idaho. Yeah, 155 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 2: yah ya, Well, but I think it was actually a 156 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: B fifty two song. First, okay, okay, it's like you're 157 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: living in your own private. 158 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 4: Idaho and the yeah, the build of spells like Christmas 159 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 4: Twin Falls id uh Ho. It's a pretty sad song actually, 160 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 4: Casey on. 161 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: The case, Yeah, that was a great deep cut too. 162 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: I am a built a spill fan myself. Yeah, I 163 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: have not as of yet traveled to Idaho that I 164 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: can recall. I know it sounds sketchy, but yeah, yeah, 165 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: I'm seventy percent sure I haven't been there, but the 166 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: past is a watercolor in the rain. You know, things blur. 167 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,719 Speaker 1: Which brings us background to the speculation about Idaho's name. 168 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: Even though it seems like it would fit in, you know, 169 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: it sounds similar to many others, right, It turns out 170 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: that we have relatively little idea of where the name 171 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: Idaho came from. We have some theories. 172 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: We have some theories, and the biggest, most lasting theory 173 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: revolves around a kooky mining lobbyist by the name of 174 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 2: George M. Willing. It is put forth in the record 175 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 2: that he suggested the name Idaho and said that it 176 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: was a Native American word that meant the gem of 177 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 2: the mountains. And this was actually surrounding the naming of 178 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 2: what is now Colorado. So this is a whole saga 179 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,719 Speaker 2: that kind of gets this. This name gets sort of 180 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 2: kicked around a little bit, doesn't. 181 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk a little bit about the background of 182 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: George Maurice Willing Junior, known as Doc to his friends. 183 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: He was born sometime around eighteen twenty nine to a 184 00:09:55,360 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: very well off family in Philadelphia. He was educated as 185 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: a physician, but he got in trouble. He got disgraced 186 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: because he was discovered performing performing abortions. 187 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: Right, that is true. This I did not know. 188 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: And so in the early eighteen fifties he moved to 189 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: California to escape potential legal complications, and by the late 190 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: eighteen fifties he's resettled to Saint Louis, Missouri. He becomes 191 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: part of the Pike's Peak gold Rush in eighteen fifty nine. 192 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,559 Speaker 1: He was described as a man of many interests, a 193 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: good geologist, abolished a gentleman. He became a candidate for 194 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: the Jefferson Territory delegation in October of eighteen fifty nine. 195 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: He lost the election, but he's still despite losing the election, 196 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: check this out, he just goes to DC anyway and 197 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: becomes a lobbyist. And then while he's working as a 198 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: delegate lace according to the story, he's the associated most 199 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: strongly with the name Idaho. 200 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, that would have been in the earliest days of lobbying, 201 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 2: wouldn't it have been. 202 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: Imagine it was nothing like it is today, right, you know, 203 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: it was nowhere near as closely regulated, you know what 204 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: I mean. So it's suggested by Willing and some other 205 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: people early in eighteen sixty as an alternative name for 206 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: the territory that finally became known as Colorado. And as 207 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: you said, nol it was represented as being a term 208 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: meaning gem of the mountains, which some people loved. 209 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 2: That's true, but it didn't fly at that particular time, 210 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 2: and a little time went by, and Idaho was not 211 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 2: forgotten because it just had a certain, I don't know, 212 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: a certain mouthfeel to it, right, Ben. 213 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, And let's also consider the willing. Again, we can't overemphasize. 214 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: This isn't really supposed to be there. The miners aren't 215 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: even supposed to have a delegate, but people are becoming 216 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: increasing fans of this phrase or this buzzword or this term. 217 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: In the halls of d C. There's a guy named 218 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 1: Williams who has interactions with both political groups in these 219 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: different mining camps, and he's really digging the name Idaho. 220 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: And something important is happening at this point. So the 221 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty elections out of the way, Lincoln is president, 222 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: and there's this blockade that has existed against creating new territories, right, 223 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: and this blockade begins to clear. So while the Southern 224 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: states are ramping up towards secession. There's an Idaho bill 225 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: for the Pike's Peak mins that was printed by the 226 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: House on December eighteenth, eighteen sixty. And at this where 227 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: it gets a little complicated, this Williams guy pushes lobbies 228 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: Congress to alter a Colorado territorial bill that they've been 229 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: sitting on for months and to change the name of 230 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: that territory from Colorado to Idaho. And then when this happened, 231 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: when this came up and this new name was proposed 232 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: in the Senate, a senator from Oregon objected. And then 233 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: another guy says, James Green, a Senator James Green says, 234 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: Idaho is a very good name in the Indian language. 235 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: You know, it means gem of the mountains. And this 236 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: guy from Oregon says, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 237 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 2: Quote. 238 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: I do not believe it is an Indian word. It 239 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: is a corruption. No Indian tribe in this nation has 240 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: that word. In my opinion, it is a corruption, certainly 241 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: a counterfeit, and ought not to be adopted. 242 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 2: And let's remember too that the States. I don't hopefully, 243 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 2: hopefully I'm not like overly simplifying. This is something I 244 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: have a tendency to do sometimes, but the states would 245 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 2: begin their lives as territories when enough miners would come 246 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 2: in and they realized there were enough natural resources there 247 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: to justify a colony of miners. And then as more 248 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: and more people came and more and more infrastructure was created, 249 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 2: the population would boom enough to justify calling it a state, 250 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: or they would be a whole. Other series of discussions 251 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: would form around, Okay, now it's going to transfer from 252 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 2: being a colony, a territory to actually being a proper 253 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: state and having a name. 254 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and we know we know that, especially in 255 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: this period of history, or at least more so than 256 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: in the modern day. Groups of people we get together 257 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: and pitch ideas for states, like in our previous episode 258 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: about US states that never actually happened. There are so 259 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: many conversations throughout the US historical record about people trying 260 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: to make the name of a state or create their 261 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: own state when someone else is claiming the same land. 262 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: The thing that happens, though, is that the Senate at 263 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: first they approve this change. They say, Okay, we'll change 264 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: it from Colorado to Idaho because Williams really wants. 265 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: It that way. 266 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: But Williams gets suspens. You know, it's like this Senator 267 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: Lane is from Oregon, right, he's on the west coast. 268 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: He is probably fairly well acquainted with the languages of 269 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: indigenous people at the time, and he seems very certain 270 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: this is not a real word. So he looks into 271 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: the matter, and that's when he finds out that Idaho 272 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: is not a word. It's not an existing word in 273 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: an existing language. 274 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 2: But Williams was largely ignored in the first place too, 275 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 2: because he was like the vice presidential candidate of the 276 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 2: pro slavery wing of the Democratic Party, which is not 277 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 2: a good look. So he was kind of, you know, 278 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 2: just say, hey, get this guy out of here, you know. 279 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: So they may have been just making fun of him 280 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: right in the beginning. So this is when he learns 281 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: that George M. Willing or one of his supporters, had 282 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: just invented the word, along with the notion of its definition, 283 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: about a year before. And so Williams hunts up another 284 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: senator Eastern Center, a guy named Henry Wilson of Massachusetts, 285 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: and he says, will you please change the name back 286 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: to Colorado. And on February fourth, eighteen sixty one, the 287 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: Senate says Okay, we'll change it to Colorado. And before 288 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: the House did anything about its Idaho bill, the Colorado 289 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: bill passed in the Senate, and then the Representatives passed 290 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: the Colorado bill, and so the House bill never was 291 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: acted on, and the name Idaho received no further consideration 292 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: for Colorado, which became a territory on February twenty eighth, 293 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one. But the thing was sort of in 294 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:37,359 Speaker 1: a Pandora's box kind of situation. People like the word. 295 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,359 Speaker 1: People in what will become Idaho or in that territory 296 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: are digging it. It's already a popular phrase in the 297 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: Rockies and in the Pacific Northwest, and it's kind of like, 298 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever heard this. Are you 299 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: familiar with the ice cream franchise Hogandaws? Course, so Hogandaws 300 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: is a made up word? No, yeah, really, yes. They 301 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: just wanted something that sounded like vaguely Scandinavian so it 302 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: would be a little more classing. Idaho is kind of 303 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: like this. People are swearing to one another up and 304 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: down that it is a word from a language of 305 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: native people who have lived in this area of the world. 306 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 2: So, like you said, Ben, to that point, this word 307 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: Idaho was already out of the box. It was floating around. 308 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 2: It was in the zeitgeys, and people thought it sounded nice, 309 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 2: you know, because of the mouthfeel and it's just Indian 310 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 2: sounding ness. So in December of eighteen sixty one, there 311 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 2: was a territorial legislature of Washington and it created Idaho County. 312 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 2: And that, you know, as we mentioned the geography of Idaho, 313 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 2: it borders Washington State, so it originally was part of 314 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 2: Washington State, but then it became its own state. And 315 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 2: there's another player in kind of keeping this Idaho word alive, 316 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: a guy by the name of Joaquin Miller who wrote 317 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 2: the Poet of the Sierras, where he spelled it Idaho 318 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: and he claimed that it meant the light or diadem 319 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 2: on the line of the mountain, which is a little 320 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 2: bit more of a high falutin way of saying, what 321 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 2: was the original one ben the gem of the mountain. 322 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: And keep in mind, these are mining concerns that putting 323 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: out this. 324 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: That's true. So I think at this point the original 325 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 2: kerfuffle with Willing had been largely forgotten, but the word, 326 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 2: the name kind of lived on, right. 327 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, And at this point we do want to profile 328 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: a little bit. There's some background, some context the Willings 329 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: character that come into play here. Willings was involved in 330 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: a number of frauds, one of the most notorious being 331 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: something called the Arizona Peralta lands grant fraud, in which 332 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: he played a despicable part. He also was an associative forgers. 333 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: He was a guy similar to so many other con 334 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: art that we have talked about in past episodes. And 335 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: you'll hear different alternating theories that he met a young 336 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: girl named Ida and that inspired the name, or that 337 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: it actually is a corruption of an indigenous people's language, 338 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: the Kiowa Apach term idahi, which meant enemy. That doesn't 339 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: really measure up in my opinion that last one. I 340 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: could see a state being named after a person that's 341 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: happened before, but I can't see a state being named enemy. 342 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: You want something a little more positive, right, So now 343 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: we know this battle that happened ultimately was a battle 344 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: fought in the public sphere in terms of public opinion 345 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: and public use of the phrase. And that's why the 346 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: term Idaho was first used to refer to Idaho as 347 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: a state instead of Idaho Springs or some other area 348 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty three, Williams went on to do some 349 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 1: ore Shenani. 350 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, he sure did. And let's not forget too that 351 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 2: at this point a lot of lawmakers that had maybe 352 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 2: had their breaches in bunches about this in the first place, 353 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 2: were a little more preoccupied with the Civil War than 354 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: quarreling about state names and made up Indian words. 355 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: Right right, And so that's kind of how it slid 356 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: in under the radar, because people were so worried about 357 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:33,479 Speaker 1: this burgeoning war between the states that they didn't really 358 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: have time nor the inclination to worry about what they 359 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: saw as a relatively benign concept like the name idahome 360 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: and so Idaho just like a kind of a hogendas 361 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: stuck around, sounded close enough to the thing that it 362 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: was purporting to be that more and more people began 363 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: using it. And some of the same senators who remembered 364 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: that last naming incident when they figured out it was 365 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: a made up name, were the same senators who are like, Hey, 366 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: we have to figure out the Civil War things, so 367 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: just just let it ride. Maybe we can fix it later, 368 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: maybe we can kick the can down the road. And 369 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 1: kick the can they did, because it is twenty nineteen 370 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: and Idaho is the state's name. It's not going to 371 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: change anytime soon. 372 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 2: Now, it's true, And this is not even the most 373 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 2: egregious example of a naming fraud. Have you ever heard 374 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 2: of Montpellier, Illinois? 375 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: Oh, I have heard the name. What's the skinny on that? 376 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, it turns out that the name, and as Casey 377 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 2: off Mics pointed out, it would be more properly pronounced Montpellier, 378 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:42,719 Speaker 2: was something of a practical joke. Father Jacques Marquette in 379 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 2: sixteen seventy three encountered some members of the Peoria Indian 380 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 2: tribe and that was near the mouth of what would 381 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 2: today be called the Des Moines River, and he asked 382 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 2: them to give him the name of another tribe of 383 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 2: rivals that lived further down the river, and the Peoria 384 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 2: leadership told him that they were called the Moonguana, and 385 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 2: that became the roots for Moye. But Michael McCafferty of 386 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 2: Indiana University discovered that in the Miami, Illinois language, which 387 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 2: is now no longer it's a dead language, this actually 388 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: would have been translated to faces and apparently nobody in 389 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 2: Illinois government in the city of Des Moines has acknowledged 390 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 2: that this is the case, but the research stands interesting stuff. 391 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 2: So I guess having a made up name is maybe 392 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 2: a little less embarrassing than having a name that translates 393 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 2: to something so derogatory. 394 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: That's a great point, and as I'm sure many of 395 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: us are thinking as we're listening to this episode right now, 396 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: most actually all words are made up. At some point 397 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: we all agree, or various factions of us throughout the 398 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: human species agreed that this word means this thing. You 399 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like hand means that thing at 400 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: the end of your arm, shoe means that thing that 401 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: goes over your foot. And Idaho is one of the 402 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 1: fifty states of the United States of America. There you go, 403 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 1: and that is our episode for today. How many states? 404 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: How many states have we done? Now? 405 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 2: I don't know. Are there any intrepid ridiculous historians that 406 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 2: want to do the tally and shoot us an email 407 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 2: at Ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com. That'd be cool. 408 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 1: We love to hear from you, because otherwise I'll be 409 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: completely honest with you here, folks. Otherwise we'll get halfway 410 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: through an episode and then realize that we have in 411 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: fact already covered that state. 412 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 2: It's okay whatever it takes to get the show out 413 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: as long as it's a good story too, So thank 414 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 2: you in advance for sending us that note. 415 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: We want to hear the interesting stories of place names 416 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: in your neck of the Global Woods. We'd also, of 417 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: course like to think a super producer case see pegram 418 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: and maybe, you know, maybe we could go for a 419 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 1: road trip to Idaho one day. Let's do it. 420 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 2: We'd also like to thank Alex Williams, who composed our theme, Gabe, 421 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 2: our research associate who hiped us to this topic. You 422 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 2: can check me out on Instagram at Embryonic Insider. 423 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: You can find our show on Instagram as well on 424 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: Twitter and Facebook. You can find your fellow listeners on 425 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: our Facebook community page That's Ridiculous Historians. And if you 426 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: want to hang out with me see some pictures of 427 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: weird adventures and my oversized cats. You can find me 428 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: at Ben Bullen on Instagram. 429 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 430 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 431 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.