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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome back to the Book of Joe

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Speaker 1: with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe as

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Speaker 1: I'd like to say, this is the most interesting podcast

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Speaker 1: on the planet because we like to talk about baseball

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Speaker 1: and beyond on I'll say a lot of esoteric or

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Speaker 1: interesting topics. Right, we just don't go to the top

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Speaker 1: of the headlines for the news. And when I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about actually a few things today, I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about how the older player is getting aged

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Speaker 1: out of this game. I want to celebrate a quiet

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Speaker 1: but dedicated baseball life, and I know that's close to

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Speaker 1: your heart, these guys who don't get the recognition and

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Speaker 1: put in all the years in the game. But I

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Speaker 1: want to start with kind of an epidemic with pitching injuries.

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Speaker 1: I know we talk a lot about elbows, Joe, but

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Speaker 1: have you looked around camps and the number of pitchers

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Speaker 1: who are straining their lats and their obliques. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. Luis Heal of the Yankees, Zach Thompson the

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Speaker 1: Saint Louis Cardinals, Javier a Side of the Cubs, Andy

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Speaker 1: Ashby and DJ Hall, the Brewers. I mean, the list

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Speaker 1: goes on and on, Joe. For people don't know the

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Speaker 1: oblique muscle, and it is a muscle, guys tend to

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Speaker 1: strain it from either sudden movements or overuse. I mean, listen, Joe,

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Speaker 1: you've seen these camps, You've seen those opening day meetings

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Speaker 1: where it's full of a ton of support people, right, nutritionness,

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Speaker 1: sports performance specialists. I mean, you name it, and these

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Speaker 1: guys are breaking down like never before. Give me your

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Speaker 1: take on what you think might be going on here, Joe.

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Speaker 1: Because covering baseball in the eighties, I never heard the

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Speaker 1: word oblique.

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Speaker 2: Nobody had them. It wasn't a part of the anatomy.

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Speaker 3: I think it really illustrates the sameness of the game,

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Speaker 3: meaning that it's almost like the entire industry as one team.

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Speaker 3: I think so much information is shared and different methods

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Speaker 3: are incorporated artists of what organization you're with. So if

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Speaker 3: nobody is getting hurt, because it's the same this is

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Speaker 3: being utilized in regards to training, technique, nutrition.

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Speaker 2: Et cetera.

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Speaker 3: And if everybody's getting hurt, it's because of the same reason.

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Speaker 3: I really believe that, and that's one of my hang

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Speaker 3: ups is that I've always felt that organizations should be

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Speaker 3: more on their own, don't always just drink everybody else's

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Speaker 3: kool aid all the time.

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Speaker 2: And I think if you saw a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit more people out there on their own, you're going

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Speaker 3: to have a couple outliers that are not faced with this.

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Speaker 3: I know not every team has this right at this

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Speaker 3: particular juncture, but it's an epidemic and we're not even gosh,

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Speaker 3: we haven't even hardly been playing games yet, So I

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Speaker 3: think it has something to do with this information that

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Speaker 3: is passed among each other and it's taken as doctrine.

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Speaker 3: And again it's no different than analytics. It's it's always

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Speaker 3: considered almost like this pure information that is infallible, and

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Speaker 3: it comes down to this kind of stuff also where

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Speaker 3: new training techniques are involved, and part of it is

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Speaker 3: just trying to get guys that throw as hard as

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Speaker 3: they possible we can, the drills incorporated, the torque put

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Speaker 3: on the upper body, all that kind of stuff, It

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Speaker 3: just makes sense that they would, so I really am

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Speaker 3: into it.

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Speaker 2: I don't even know.

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Speaker 3: There's probably maybe a couple organizations that aren't faced with this,

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Speaker 3: and that's the ones I want to fight.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what are you guys doing?

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Speaker 3: But I think for the most part, it's the sameness

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Speaker 3: that infiltrates the entire industry.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you mentioned velocity. I think there is something

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Speaker 1: to do with that. And it's not just throwing hard,

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Speaker 1: it's the training that it takes to throw hard. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you walk around bullpens these days, they're doing a

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Speaker 1: lot more than just throwing bullpen sessions.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: They got the plyouf balls out.

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Speaker 1: There, they got the weighted balls, they're you know, they're

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Speaker 1: throwing balls behind them and you know, everything is.

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Speaker 4: Geared towards throwing the baseball harder.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, you're working your

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Speaker 1: let and your obliques over and over again with these

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Speaker 1: short bursts of movement.

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Speaker 4: And that's what pitching has become. Joe.

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Speaker 1: You know that back in the day, pitchers used to

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Speaker 1: run a lot, right. It was an endurance test, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, you name it. These

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Speaker 1: guys built up their bodies to work longer, right, They

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Speaker 1: didn't work their bodies to work shorter in bursts. But

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Speaker 1: we have a burst game now. It's just different. But

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Speaker 1: that has changed training as well. So for instance, I

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Speaker 1: you know, I was in Mets camp and I saw

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Speaker 1: Sean Manaya. He's one of a million guys who likes

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Speaker 1: to wear those wearable nutrition and fitness trackers. Right, how

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Speaker 1: much effort you're going through in the course of a day,

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Speaker 1: whereas it on the arm you see the golf PGA tour,

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Speaker 1: I get it, you know. And really, Joe, probably when

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Speaker 1: you first started seeing these, there were some players who

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Speaker 1: were against it, right, They thought they were giving up

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Speaker 1: information to the club and the club could use it

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Speaker 1: against them. I think cut teams and players have moved

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Speaker 1: beyond that. I think there was a trust factor now,

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Speaker 1: especially guys like Manaya has signed to long term deals.

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Speaker 4: He's not going anywhere.

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Speaker 1: But my point is we're doing such a good job

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Speaker 1: now of tracking every minor detail of how the body

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Speaker 1: is working, you know, hydrated, not hydrated, over extended, under extended,

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Speaker 1: And to me, Joe, it's just not working. I mean,

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Speaker 1: so you have to look at I think training methods

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Speaker 1: more than just tracking your training.

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Speaker 3: Agreed, the running component of it. I mean, you remember

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Speaker 3: when a picture came out of a game. He'd go

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Speaker 3: out and left field during actually during a game, and

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Speaker 3: he started sprints in the outfield along the warning track

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Speaker 3: or something romantic about that isn't there, But you're right.

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Speaker 3: I mean spring training would begin with a lot of

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Speaker 3: pictures running, just like at the Angels camp over at

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Speaker 3: the buttes in Tempee.

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Speaker 2: You would see the guys just hitting the trail.

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Speaker 3: They would run the road up and around the buttes,

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Speaker 3: around the ballpark, come back around.

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Speaker 2: They would run in mass.

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Speaker 3: Some guys were running solo, but they would run, always,

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Speaker 3: always running. Then there was a sprint day and maybe

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Speaker 3: the bullpen guys ran more sprints than the endurance of

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Speaker 3: a starting picture. There was different kinds. It was really

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Speaker 3: just about running, and these guys were in you know,

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Speaker 3: great shape, and a lot of them. Some bad bodies

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Speaker 3: were involved back in the day. I get all that too.

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Speaker 3: Maybe the bad bodies never actually broke down like the

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Speaker 3: beautiful bodies do, but there was There was a different

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Speaker 3: method employed. It was primarily based on legs bottom from

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Speaker 3: working from the ground up, making sure your legs were

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Speaker 3: in order before you get your arm in order. And

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Speaker 3: then there wasn't just this incredible We called it maximum effort.

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Speaker 3: Everything being taught today's maximum effort. And like I just

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Speaker 3: read an article today about Jacob de Grom, and.

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Speaker 2: This guy's gotten hurt.

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Speaker 3: I don't even know how, but because he looks like

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Speaker 3: he's got no effort at all when he throws the baseball.

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Speaker 3: But you want to really get guys that seemingly do

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Speaker 3: it easily. There their wind up and they throw the

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Speaker 3: baseball and it's almost like they put it on the

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Speaker 3: conveyor belt. The ball just flies toward home play. You

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Speaker 3: always look for those guys as a scout, as opposed

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Speaker 3: to the bumping, grind kind of guys. But everybody's turning

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Speaker 3: into a bump and a grind kind of guy. And

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Speaker 3: then I keep hearing about how wonderful mechanics are.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I'd love to know what that means. I don't even

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Speaker 3: know what that means anymore, because I knew what it

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Speaker 3: meant as a scout watching, I knew what it meant.

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Speaker 3: As a coach standing behind the catcher watching a bullpen,

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Speaker 3: I know what that meant. I knew what the backfoot

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Speaker 3: was supposed to look like on the ground, how the

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Speaker 3: back he was supposed to turn over and face the sky,

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Speaker 3: that that left army either had the front side pulling

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Speaker 3: your backside through your back I pushing your front side through.

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Speaker 3: There was different ways to look about it, talk about

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Speaker 3: it how the front foot landed. You wanted the front

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Speaker 3: foot to land beautifully and not on the outside or

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Speaker 3: on your heel. There was all these like really simple

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Speaker 3: kind of check marks, the length of your stride, all

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Speaker 3: these things were matched up and really astute pitching coach

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Speaker 3: even I wasn't even a pitching coach, but I could

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Speaker 3: recognize all these things. And then of course the pitch

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Speaker 3: shape and what kind of pitches were going to throw,

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Speaker 3: and really what's good for the armor, which I mean,

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Speaker 3: I've always loved this purely. Of course fastball. Fastball command

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Speaker 3: always number one. Off of that, I would teach every

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Speaker 3: kid that came in to organization if they did not

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Speaker 3: have some kind of a change up, the next pitch

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Speaker 3: would be the change up. After that would be a

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Speaker 3: real curveball, and then after that the fake breaking balls,

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Speaker 3: the cutters and sliders and everything else. So if I'm

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Speaker 3: running that monor league system, that's how I would begin.

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Speaker 2: With these guys.

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Speaker 3: Now, if you come like a skiens equipped with somebody,

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Speaker 3: of course there's differences, but for the most part, there's

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Speaker 3: like only one percent schemes on the market on an

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Speaker 3: annual basis.

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Speaker 2: That's where I would go to.

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Speaker 3: It's like the tried and true stuff is not even

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Speaker 3: considered anymore, and it's all mechanically based, and it's all

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Speaker 3: technologically based without any regard for the human body.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good point. You make about the pitches

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Speaker 4: too as well. I'm with you.

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Speaker 1: I think that the foundation of the game had always

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Speaker 1: been you need to command your fastball right, you need

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Speaker 1: to put your fastball in a place when you need

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Speaker 1: to throw a fastball.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure that's well.

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Speaker 1: I know it's not emphasized as much because we know

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Speaker 1: the fastball rate now has going to be low fifty

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Speaker 1: percent in the last three four years, the first time

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Speaker 1: in baseball history. So that is not literally the foundation

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Speaker 1: of pitching anymore, you know, with technology, And I get it.

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Speaker 1: If I were a pitcher, I do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: You're chasing these movements and pitches to miss bats. That's

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Speaker 1: essentially what's going on. And you mentioned Paul Skeins great stuff.

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Speaker 1: Obviously he's throwing a cutter this year. I mean he's

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Speaker 1: out of the cutter. It's just another pitch to get

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Speaker 1: certain hitters out because not everybody has holes.

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Speaker 4: Reminds me of Max Schurzer.

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Speaker 1: He didn't start throwing a cutter until he couldn't get

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Speaker 1: Joe Mauer out.

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Speaker 4: This is back when both were in the American League Central.

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Speaker 1: Mauer is taking his inside for seamer and just stand

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Speaker 1: inside it and slicing hits the left field.

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Speaker 4: So he got a pitch that moved in on his hands.

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Speaker 1: He invented the cut fastball to get Jill Mauer out

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Speaker 1: and it became a big pitch for him. These guys

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Speaker 1: are always tinkering, always working with technology. They can follow

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Speaker 1: the data and the metrics to really shape those pitches.

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Speaker 1: I think it's kind of cool, and again, I think

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Speaker 1: it takes a lot of work. And we're doing things

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Speaker 1: at high velocity and repeating these movements. I think we

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Speaker 1: need a little more, to use your phrase, Joe, a

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Speaker 1: little more liberal arts and pitching, where these guys are

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Speaker 1: doing other things, you know, whether they're playing a you know,

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Speaker 1: two on two basketball game after workout or running the

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Speaker 1: old school.

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Speaker 4: Just have the body move in different ways.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Necessity is the mother of invention when it comes

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Speaker 3: to different pitches. And I understand that, and you just

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Speaker 3: mentioned sures er as he moved along.

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Speaker 2: Eventually he added the cutter.

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Speaker 3: I like that when you start adding new stuff to

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Speaker 3: your repertoire, and especially if you've already been successful and

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Speaker 3: you are successful, when you start adding things in there.

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Speaker 3: I was always my concern, when do you throw it?

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Speaker 3: And when you throw that? What are you not throwing?

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Speaker 2: What? What pitch of yours?

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Speaker 3: Is taking a vacation a bit because you want to

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Speaker 3: include this. I ran into that with some of the

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Speaker 3: rays at different times. With cutters, cutters became very popular,

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Speaker 3: and I said, really, with Shields the James, I say,

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Speaker 3: I love James Shield's curveball. He didn't love it as

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Speaker 3: much as I did. I thought it was a great pitch.

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Speaker 3: And you know David Price, really off of Shields. They

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Speaker 3: both developed these cutters and back door cutters became very popular.

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Speaker 3: And while they're doing that, they're not throwing other pitches

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Speaker 3: that I thought might be more Germaine prudent or better utilized,

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Speaker 3: because they were just that good. So when guys start

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Speaker 3: doing these kind of things, I'm always I get it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, part of it is the ability that the

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Speaker 3: way things are done today, there's this this ability, this what's.

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Speaker 2: Behind that door over there.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I could go over there and learn how to

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Speaker 3: throw a cut I'm gonna I'm gonna open up that

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Speaker 3: door and check it out because it's there. I always

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Speaker 3: thought that if you're going to get a new pitch

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Speaker 3: would be after you've been it's been proven that you

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Speaker 3: that the other stuff really not working. The hitters will

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Speaker 3: tell you when so I listen to me. A cutter

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Speaker 3: could just be a bad fastball, you know, because it's

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Speaker 3: not thrown as hard normally. The same thing with the

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Speaker 3: slider that's used too often. So it happened to the

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Speaker 3: Red Sox last year and they just threw it to death.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, there's there's probably going to be some kind

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Speaker 3: of upfront, original up tick. I would think something that

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Speaker 3: might seem interesting, but to do it over a period

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Speaker 3: of the year, let's just see how that all shakes out.

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Speaker 3: I was always larry of that, especially with good guys,

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Speaker 3: Especially when good guys when they've not been getting hit

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Speaker 3: around a lot. I was always concerned when they wanted

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Speaker 3: to add something new, because while they're throwing that, they're

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Speaker 3: not throwing something else that they're really good at.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think at the very least Joe. I think,

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Speaker 1: not to say they're not doing it, but the industry

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Speaker 1: has to really re examine I think training techniques for

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Speaker 1: pitchers and not just you know, sign up for all

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Speaker 1: these oblique injuries and lads that are putting guys out

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Speaker 1: for six to eight weeks as the cost of doing

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Speaker 1: business of training for velocity, that's unacceptable. They have to

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Speaker 1: find out, you know, what is going on here, what

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Speaker 1: can we do differently. I'm sure the industry is doing that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the answers are, but I would

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Speaker 1: not accept this as just that's the way pitching is

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Speaker 1: these days.

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Speaker 3: Let me just interrupt real quickly one second. I mean,

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Speaker 3: and I should qualify myself here. I mean, I haven't

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Speaker 3: been out there, you know, more recently over the last

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Speaker 3: year or two to really watch this in person. So

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Speaker 3: I'm just speaking anecdotally about what I've seen in the past,

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Speaker 3: and then combining that what I read and obviously what

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Speaker 3: we talk about here. These are my concepts as of

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Speaker 3: like twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, when I stop

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Speaker 3: managing at that point, but I'd be curious, I mean,

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Speaker 3: for me to really really give you one hundred percent

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Speaker 3: died and exactly what I believe, and I'd have to

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Speaker 3: see more of what's.

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Speaker 2: Going on with my own eyes.

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Speaker 3: I'm with my own eyes kind of a guy, because

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Speaker 3: when you hear things, when you read things, even statistical

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Speaker 3: information like that, I still have to look at that,

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Speaker 3: maybe that info, and then apply my own sensibilities, my

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Speaker 3: own experience to what we're talking about here. So when

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Speaker 3: I talk about this stuff, it's probably two year old vision,

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Speaker 3: three year old vision, but I still believe it's Germaine.

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Speaker 1: Now let me move on to something real quick. Joe,

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Speaker 1: it's jose Al Tuove the Astros. They're moving him from

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Speaker 1: second base to left field. I think this is really

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Speaker 1: interesting because if you go by defensive metrics, the last

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Speaker 1: couple of years, he has been a really poor defender.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what that means anymore, because I don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily trust defensive metrics to be absolutes.

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Speaker 4: I think maybe as a rule of thumb, they work.

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Speaker 1: So they want to play Maurice Dumont at second base

307
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Speaker 1: and move out two Vey out to left field.

308
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Speaker 4: It's interesting to me, Joe, that you make a move

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Speaker 4: like this.

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Speaker 1: Is a franchise player, obviously has been one of the

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Speaker 1: great second basement of the game of his generation for you, Joe,

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Speaker 1: as a manager, when you evaluate players, and obviously you

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Speaker 1: need player like this to buy in and do it,

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Speaker 1: and he has. What do you think would spark your

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Speaker 1: interest or decision in moving a franchise player off his

316
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Speaker 1: natural position this late in a career.

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Speaker 2: Eyeballs versus analytics.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, they could easily back up their

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Speaker 3: decision analytically, but I'm sure they're looking at a first step,

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Speaker 3: some kind of a move is turning a double.

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Speaker 2: Play and they're overlaying.

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Speaker 3: Uh the fella's names, was it, Dude, Dubon, Dubon, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he's he's they're overlaying him over top of this guy

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Speaker 3: and what that would look like. They're probably looking for

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Speaker 3: a better range, more accuracy with the glove, meaning like

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Speaker 3: when he goes to his right, that backhand to his right,

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Speaker 3: that it's caught cleanly.

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Speaker 2: The foot's plan and the throw is accurate.

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Speaker 3: There's different things they're looking at that they believe Dubon

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Speaker 3: is better at than this guy is right now, and

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Speaker 3: that's it.

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Speaker 2: They probably have.

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Speaker 3: They have an opening and left field. They feel that

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Speaker 3: their infield defense is more solidified up the middle. It's

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Speaker 3: about a'll two of a yes, but it's more about

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Speaker 3: the other guy, because if this Dubon wasn't ready to

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00:14:44,398 --> 00:14:46,278
Speaker 3: do this, and if they did not feel that there

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00:14:46,278 --> 00:14:48,158
Speaker 3: would be better with him, it would not be happening.

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Speaker 3: So for me, it's like, yeah, you could talk about

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Speaker 3: the metrics and all that other kind of stuff, but

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Speaker 3: I'm with you on that. I've always been a little

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Speaker 3: bit skeptical of all those numbers, but I would say,

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Speaker 3: my eyeballs, I think it would be easy to watch

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Speaker 3: these two guys state ground balls or watch him in

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Speaker 3: the spring training game, and there's going to be certain

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Speaker 3: you're going to look out that the one fella is

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Speaker 3: absolutely better than the other, and then.

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Speaker 2: You put all two bay and left.

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Speaker 3: Now, they put him in left field at home, which

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Speaker 3: is a small outfield, which there they like that to

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Speaker 3: throw shorter, but when he goes to different ballparks it

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Speaker 3: could be different, like bigger left fields, more room to cover.

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Speaker 3: That kind of stuff become more concerning. I doubt that

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Speaker 3: they're going to move him from right to left based

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Speaker 3: on the depth of the field, something we did with

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Speaker 3: Schwarber a bit when he first started playing the outfield

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Speaker 3: with the Cubs.

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Speaker 2: There's certain things.

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Speaker 3: You can do to mitigate the lack of arm strength,

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Speaker 3: which I don't think he's gonna have like really great

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Speaker 3: arm strength from the outfield, although he's been involved in

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Speaker 3: cutoffs and relays for a bit. But again, last point,

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Speaker 3: I just think it's an overlight what looks better. You

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Speaker 3: don't need a stockpile of information to tell you who

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Speaker 3: was better at second base for us right now. You

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Speaker 3: just got to look at it and watch these two

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Speaker 3: guys play and make that determination.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, a good point about the arm strength.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the arm was an issue at second base,

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Speaker 1: and now moving him in the outfield. You know, I'm sure,

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Speaker 1: especially early in the season, you'll see a lot of

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Speaker 1: third base coaches taking chances. Absolutely I OASIL two, they'd

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Speaker 1: being new out there. As you saw with Kyle Schwarber.

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Speaker 1: It's just part of the game. Credit to him for

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Speaker 1: making the adjustment. But you know, Joe, this game now,

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Speaker 1: if you're getting into your mid thirties, the game sometimes

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Speaker 1: retires you rather than you re tying yourself.

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Speaker 4: I want to talk to you about that. What's happening.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot of good players don't have a job,

380
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Speaker 1: but that's something that's been happening year after year recently.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that right after this on the Book

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Speaker 1: of Joe. Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Anthony

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Speaker 1: Rizzo still doesn't have a job.

384
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Speaker 4: Joe Medden. It's surprising to me.

385
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Speaker 1: I thought, you know, obviously has concussion, some injury issues

386
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Speaker 1: in the last couple of years. But what he can

387
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Speaker 1: offer a team man, I'd want him in my clubhouse.

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Speaker 3: Middle class has been forced out. It's either like you know,

389
00:17:00,398 --> 00:17:03,438
Speaker 3: the babies, or these the star guys. The guy's getting

390
00:17:03,518 --> 00:17:06,678
Speaker 3: a lot of dough and teams cannot live without. And

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Speaker 3: on the other side of the spectrum, not inflating your

392
00:17:11,518 --> 00:17:14,918
Speaker 3: salary structure by adding guys that are more mineral. They

393
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Speaker 3: definitely believe they're going to get this out of young guys,

394
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Speaker 3: and I think that's part of the reason why we're

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Speaker 3: seeing a dip in fundamentals and how the game is played,

396
00:17:22,158 --> 00:17:24,638
Speaker 3: because a lot of these guys really have not served

397
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Speaker 3: enough time into minor leagues. They've not gone through boot camp,

398
00:17:27,398 --> 00:17:29,998
Speaker 3: they've not seen instructional leagues, they've not seen all that stuff.

399
00:17:30,318 --> 00:17:32,358
Speaker 3: They're really permissive to understand how to play the game.

400
00:17:32,398 --> 00:17:34,318
Speaker 3: They don't have instructors in the minor leagues down their

401
00:17:34,358 --> 00:17:37,918
Speaker 3: throats when these things aren't going right. I'm it's just

402
00:17:37,918 --> 00:17:40,958
Speaker 3: just fact these things aren't being done. So the game

403
00:17:40,998 --> 00:17:43,278
Speaker 3: has been deluded a bit only because of the fact

404
00:17:43,278 --> 00:17:45,878
Speaker 3: that the people playing it, there's so much, so many

405
00:17:45,918 --> 00:17:48,318
Speaker 3: of them that really don't have the foundation or the

406
00:17:48,358 --> 00:17:51,638
Speaker 3: base to understand the game entirely. Whereas there's a bunch,

407
00:17:52,118 --> 00:17:54,478
Speaker 3: like you're saying, sitting on the sidelines that do know how,

408
00:17:54,638 --> 00:17:57,398
Speaker 3: but they're within that price range that the teams don't

409
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Speaker 3: want to mess with. Maybe they will mess with them

410
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Speaker 3: later on they have an injury or as they get

411
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Speaker 3: closer to possibly a playoffs that if the guys available, whatever,

412
00:18:06,198 --> 00:18:08,518
Speaker 3: But when you're putting it together in spring training, there's

413
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Speaker 3: a it seems like a need or desire to just

414
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Speaker 3: go youth and old. I mean, there's again no I

415
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Speaker 3: call it a middle class. I've seen it coming on

416
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Speaker 3: for years, and a lot of it is attached to

417
00:18:18,678 --> 00:18:19,598
Speaker 3: the amount of money you have.

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Speaker 2: To pay these guys. That's it, pure and simple.

419
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Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of teams that would be

420
00:18:23,038 --> 00:18:26,718
Speaker 3: better service, I believe, as the ability to play the

421
00:18:26,718 --> 00:18:29,798
Speaker 3: game properly if they were to spend more time permitting

422
00:18:29,838 --> 00:18:32,278
Speaker 3: these guys to develop into minor leagues and really teach

423
00:18:32,318 --> 00:18:32,838
Speaker 3: them the game.

424
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Speaker 2: And while you're doing that, you sign higher.

425
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Speaker 3: Some of this middle class that that really going to

426
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Speaker 3: augment your team, make your team better, make a better

427
00:18:40,398 --> 00:18:41,798
Speaker 3: product on a nightly basis.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's how I see it, pure and simple,

430
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Speaker 3: and I think that's what's happening.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'll give you a couple of numbers, Joe. Last year,

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Speaker 1: players who are aged thirty five and older who had

433
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Speaker 1: enough at bats to qualify for the Batting Championship, there

434
00:18:54,638 --> 00:18:58,358
Speaker 1: were only four of those players. The year before twenty

435
00:18:58,398 --> 00:19:01,798
Speaker 1: twenty three, there were only four of those players. That's

436
00:19:01,798 --> 00:19:05,958
Speaker 1: the lowest ever since we've had thirty teams, and it's

437
00:19:05,998 --> 00:19:10,478
Speaker 1: the lowest in any season since nineteen sixty five. If

438
00:19:10,478 --> 00:19:13,358
Speaker 1: you go back to two thousand and seven, remember there's

439
00:19:13,398 --> 00:19:16,398
Speaker 1: only four players last year who played enough to qualify

440
00:19:16,438 --> 00:19:18,918
Speaker 1: for the Batting Championship thirty five and older. Go back

441
00:19:18,958 --> 00:19:22,358
Speaker 1: to two thousand and seven, there were twenty one of them.

442
00:19:22,718 --> 00:19:25,638
Speaker 1: That's an enormous change in the game. Now, a cynic

443
00:19:25,678 --> 00:19:27,678
Speaker 1: would suggest, you know, back in the day, we didn't

444
00:19:27,678 --> 00:19:30,198
Speaker 1: get steroid testing. Until two thousand and three, a lot

445
00:19:30,198 --> 00:19:32,718
Speaker 1: of guys were writing the benefits of extending their careers.

446
00:19:32,998 --> 00:19:34,878
Speaker 4: Unnaturally, there's no question about that.

447
00:19:34,998 --> 00:19:37,838
Speaker 1: But you're right, Joe, I think there is a split

448
00:19:37,918 --> 00:19:40,358
Speaker 1: here in terms of what teams want. I will disagree

449
00:19:40,398 --> 00:19:42,438
Speaker 1: with you on one thing. I think the young players

450
00:19:42,478 --> 00:19:45,958
Speaker 1: are getting the big leagues. Maybe not as polished, but

451
00:19:46,518 --> 00:19:50,358
Speaker 1: their skills are tremendous, and they grow up playing a

452
00:19:50,558 --> 00:19:54,118
Speaker 1: much higher level of competition, going up against the amount

453
00:19:54,158 --> 00:19:56,878
Speaker 1: of hard throwers, for instance, and double A and even

454
00:19:56,998 --> 00:19:57,438
Speaker 1: single A.

455
00:19:58,118 --> 00:19:59,998
Speaker 4: They're seeing velocity of young age.

456
00:20:00,078 --> 00:20:02,318
Speaker 1: You think about the travel ball circuit, I think the

457
00:20:02,358 --> 00:20:05,838
Speaker 1: competition they're facing is better, and I think that prepares

458
00:20:06,398 --> 00:20:08,878
Speaker 1: young players better for the big leagues. They also think

459
00:20:08,958 --> 00:20:10,838
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, nobody's coming off the field

460
00:20:10,878 --> 00:20:14,038
Speaker 1: in Iowa anymore, who's never seen a three deck stadium

461
00:20:14,238 --> 00:20:16,398
Speaker 1: or you know, never been on television and everything is

462
00:20:16,478 --> 00:20:18,478
Speaker 1: kind of like this odd wonder these guys should get

463
00:20:18,558 --> 00:20:20,798
Speaker 1: the big leagues at twenty twenty one, and they're mature,

464
00:20:20,878 --> 00:20:23,918
Speaker 1: They've been in pressure situations and played in big ballparks

465
00:20:23,918 --> 00:20:27,638
Speaker 1: and showcase events. So I do think the younger player

466
00:20:27,758 --> 00:20:30,438
Speaker 1: now hits the ground running more than before. Now, if

467
00:20:30,438 --> 00:20:32,758
Speaker 1: you want to tell me he doesn't know the intricacies

468
00:20:32,758 --> 00:20:35,678
Speaker 1: of winning baseball as well, I'm not gonna argue that,

469
00:20:36,358 --> 00:20:39,358
Speaker 1: but I think it's easier for teams now to say,

470
00:20:39,478 --> 00:20:41,558
Speaker 1: let's just go with the young guy, not necessarily because

471
00:20:41,558 --> 00:20:44,278
Speaker 1: he's cheaper. I get that that's certainly a driving force.

472
00:20:44,318 --> 00:20:46,958
Speaker 1: I'm not ignoring that, but that the skills of the

473
00:20:46,958 --> 00:20:49,718
Speaker 1: young player are so darn good it's easy to dream

474
00:20:49,718 --> 00:20:50,678
Speaker 1: about some of these guys.

475
00:20:50,918 --> 00:20:54,358
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, obviously there's some really talented young people,

476
00:20:54,358 --> 00:20:56,758
Speaker 3: and I'm just banging on the ability to play at

477
00:20:56,798 --> 00:20:58,598
Speaker 3: the game properly or not. I mean, I think that's

478
00:20:58,598 --> 00:21:01,758
Speaker 3: what it comes down to as the season's in progress,

479
00:21:01,998 --> 00:21:04,118
Speaker 3: when that stuff starts breaking down, that's what lead to

480
00:21:04,158 --> 00:21:06,638
Speaker 3: a lot of discussions, arguments. And after all, there's only

481
00:21:06,678 --> 00:21:09,478
Speaker 3: a few teams that are really on an annual basis,

482
00:21:09,638 --> 00:21:12,238
Speaker 3: we'll talk about this year who we think are going

483
00:21:12,278 --> 00:21:15,038
Speaker 3: to really be legitimate World Series contenders. So there's so

484
00:21:15,038 --> 00:21:19,398
Speaker 3: many teams that are competing with this concept conceptually the

485
00:21:19,398 --> 00:21:23,198
Speaker 3: younger player and again not utilizing the fellows that have

486
00:21:23,278 --> 00:21:24,878
Speaker 3: really done their time and know how to play the

487
00:21:24,918 --> 00:21:25,558
Speaker 3: game properly.

488
00:21:26,078 --> 00:21:28,278
Speaker 2: So yeah, you have a lot of this in the league.

489
00:21:28,318 --> 00:21:30,118
Speaker 3: You have a lot of these kind of players, and yeah,

490
00:21:30,438 --> 00:21:33,598
Speaker 3: listens athletically skillfully. I had like a punt passing kick

491
00:21:33,638 --> 00:21:37,118
Speaker 3: competition for baseball, they'd be outstanding. Absolutely, they would be.

492
00:21:37,118 --> 00:21:39,398
Speaker 3: But if you're going to talk about that's it. I

493
00:21:39,398 --> 00:21:42,238
Speaker 3: mean the game of baseball itself, that these standards have

494
00:21:42,358 --> 00:21:45,238
Speaker 3: been so lowered in regards to execution of the game.

495
00:21:45,678 --> 00:21:47,878
Speaker 3: So right now it's more of a skills competition than

496
00:21:47,918 --> 00:21:51,118
Speaker 3: than the artistry of a planing baseball game properly. And

497
00:21:51,678 --> 00:21:53,638
Speaker 3: you know what happened with the Yankees last year, and

498
00:21:53,678 --> 00:21:55,118
Speaker 3: I just heard about it the other day. I mean,

499
00:21:55,598 --> 00:21:58,198
Speaker 3: everybody's concerned about fundamentally and how they played the game,

500
00:21:58,238 --> 00:22:00,238
Speaker 3: and they thought the big part of the reason why

501
00:22:00,278 --> 00:22:03,198
Speaker 3: the Dodgers did it and they didn't was because of

502
00:22:03,238 --> 00:22:05,878
Speaker 3: that pticular fact fundamentals were not in place. And you

503
00:22:05,918 --> 00:22:08,198
Speaker 3: look at the Dodgers, I mean, outside of their pictures,

504
00:22:08,198 --> 00:22:10,478
Speaker 3: they're they're kind of like a veteran Leyden group. I mean,

505
00:22:10,558 --> 00:22:12,758
Speaker 3: hiring Keicky her nanispack the is a reason for that.

506
00:22:12,958 --> 00:22:16,118
Speaker 3: So yeah, there's there's all kinds of arguments to be made,

507
00:22:16,158 --> 00:22:18,798
Speaker 3: and so whatever I think whatever kind of glasses you're wearing,

508
00:22:18,918 --> 00:22:21,278
Speaker 3: or whatever camp you come from, or what you believe in.

509
00:22:21,878 --> 00:22:24,998
Speaker 3: That's kind of religion sort of. So I love skillful

510
00:22:25,038 --> 00:22:27,558
Speaker 3: young players. I've listened. I could name you names of

511
00:22:27,638 --> 00:22:29,358
Speaker 3: guys that spend a lot of time in the minor

512
00:22:29,438 --> 00:22:32,398
Speaker 3: leagues when I was doing it, that probably would be

513
00:22:32,438 --> 00:22:35,118
Speaker 3: on that fast track that you're talking about now had

514
00:22:35,158 --> 00:22:38,558
Speaker 3: they just been born a little bit later. I mean,

515
00:22:38,598 --> 00:22:41,398
Speaker 3: if jim Edmonds, Timmy Sam and a bunch of these

516
00:22:41,438 --> 00:22:44,438
Speaker 3: guys were so skillful coming out of college, but they

517
00:22:44,438 --> 00:22:46,758
Speaker 3: have just been thrust into the big leagues, and then

518
00:22:46,958 --> 00:22:49,158
Speaker 3: you would never you know, although Jimmy came with all

519
00:22:49,198 --> 00:22:51,638
Speaker 3: the bells and whistles, you know, Timothy became a better

520
00:22:51,678 --> 00:22:53,638
Speaker 3: base runner. I could go up and down a list

521
00:22:53,638 --> 00:22:56,478
Speaker 3: of a lot of guys, Damien Easley, Gary DiSarcina. You

522
00:22:56,518 --> 00:22:58,318
Speaker 3: could have made arguments for these guys that they would

523
00:22:58,318 --> 00:23:02,798
Speaker 3: have been like more big league ready if the philosophically

524
00:23:02,798 --> 00:23:05,558
Speaker 3: it was different at that time as compared to what

525
00:23:05,718 --> 00:23:08,118
Speaker 3: it is today. So I know there's a lot of

526
00:23:08,158 --> 00:23:10,238
Speaker 3: great athletes in the game, but there was then too. Man,

527
00:23:10,278 --> 00:23:13,278
Speaker 3: when you when you walked around instructional league in the

528
00:23:13,318 --> 00:23:16,278
Speaker 3: eighties and you walked into the Cubs camp or the

529
00:23:16,318 --> 00:23:20,598
Speaker 3: Mariners camp, like Al Chambers, Tito Nanny, you know, all

530
00:23:20,598 --> 00:23:22,758
Speaker 3: the guys with the Cubs, whether it was Sean Dunstan,

531
00:23:23,478 --> 00:23:27,398
Speaker 3: Tony Woods, all this group. Of course, Davie Martinez was there, Maddox.

532
00:23:27,478 --> 00:23:30,118
Speaker 3: I mean, there was some prolific players back then. They

533
00:23:30,158 --> 00:23:31,798
Speaker 3: didn't have a chance to get to the big leagues

534
00:23:31,838 --> 00:23:35,278
Speaker 3: yet because well we're talking about there's guys in their way,

535
00:23:35,398 --> 00:23:37,878
Speaker 3: like the middle class was still on their way, and

536
00:23:37,918 --> 00:23:39,918
Speaker 3: while they were in their way, they developed a better

537
00:23:39,958 --> 00:23:42,238
Speaker 3: game or better brand of baseball. So I think it's

538
00:23:42,278 --> 00:23:45,678
Speaker 3: easy to say that these guys are more skillful only

539
00:23:45,718 --> 00:23:47,998
Speaker 3: because people weren't there to scout these guys back in

540
00:23:48,038 --> 00:23:49,558
Speaker 3: the day and how good they actually were.

541
00:23:49,918 --> 00:23:51,238
Speaker 2: The methods were just different.

542
00:23:51,558 --> 00:23:53,598
Speaker 3: The fact that you had to earn the right to

543
00:23:53,638 --> 00:23:55,438
Speaker 3: get there was different as compared to now.

544
00:23:55,478 --> 00:23:57,238
Speaker 2: And a lot of it has to do with.

545
00:23:57,118 --> 00:24:00,278
Speaker 3: That information analytics and the fact that they you know,

546
00:24:00,398 --> 00:24:03,398
Speaker 3: financially speaking, you could spend seven hundred some million on

547
00:24:03,438 --> 00:24:05,958
Speaker 3: a Sota knowing that I got several guys that are

548
00:24:05,958 --> 00:24:08,998
Speaker 3: paying nothing to play the game for us right now

549
00:24:09,438 --> 00:24:11,038
Speaker 3: reasonably well, but not as good.

550
00:24:11,358 --> 00:24:11,598
Speaker 2: Yeah.

551
00:24:11,638 --> 00:24:14,398
Speaker 1: Some of the guys we mentioned, Anthony Brizzo not signed,

552
00:24:14,678 --> 00:24:20,278
Speaker 1: Adam Duvald, j D Martinez, Drew Smiley, Jose Iglesias, Lance

553
00:24:20,358 --> 00:24:24,038
Speaker 1: Lynn Patrick Corban, Kyle Gibson. These are established, in some cases,

554
00:24:24,118 --> 00:24:26,758
Speaker 1: former All Stars who are out there, and I know

555
00:24:26,798 --> 00:24:28,718
Speaker 1: in some cases it's a matter of money. I think

556
00:24:28,758 --> 00:24:30,918
Speaker 1: Adam duval has said he doesn't want to play for

557
00:24:30,998 --> 00:24:33,438
Speaker 1: less than three million dollars. These guys don't want to

558
00:24:33,438 --> 00:24:35,878
Speaker 1: come in on a minor league contract, and at this

559
00:24:36,038 --> 00:24:40,038
Speaker 1: point of the year, man forty man spots are golden

560
00:24:40,158 --> 00:24:43,478
Speaker 1: to major league teams, right, It's everybody's locked in and

561
00:24:43,518 --> 00:24:45,838
Speaker 1: you don't want to lose it. You know, a prospect

562
00:24:45,958 --> 00:24:47,838
Speaker 1: because you're signing a guy at a flyer that he

563
00:24:47,878 --> 00:24:50,398
Speaker 1: still has something left in the tank. And what made

564
00:24:50,438 --> 00:24:52,958
Speaker 1: me think about this, Joe, was the news that Mike

565
00:24:53,038 --> 00:24:55,318
Speaker 1: Mustakis officially retired.

566
00:24:55,598 --> 00:24:58,238
Speaker 4: Right, Mike Mustakis, I love him, I love him.

567
00:24:58,318 --> 00:25:01,118
Speaker 1: Exactly right, And I remember when he was in Milwaukee

568
00:25:01,158 --> 00:25:04,158
Speaker 1: late in his career, they absolutely loved him. Now, he

569
00:25:04,198 --> 00:25:07,118
Speaker 1: played well for them, but it was what he gave

570
00:25:07,238 --> 00:25:11,118
Speaker 1: that team, just the energy, just a really great teammate.

571
00:25:11,158 --> 00:25:13,638
Speaker 1: An example of these guys that we're talking about that

572
00:25:14,158 --> 00:25:17,198
Speaker 1: maybe there's not a lot of baseball left, but the

573
00:25:17,238 --> 00:25:21,318
Speaker 1: other qualities are actually enhanced as they get deeper in

574
00:25:21,358 --> 00:25:24,318
Speaker 1: their career. So Mike Mustakis, you know, I had a

575
00:25:24,318 --> 00:25:27,038
Speaker 1: great eight year run with Kansas City. Of course, you know,

576
00:25:27,118 --> 00:25:30,798
Speaker 1: won World championship there thirteen year career. Was not a

577
00:25:30,878 --> 00:25:32,878
Speaker 1: very good hitter the last four or five years of

578
00:25:32,918 --> 00:25:35,398
Speaker 1: his career. In fact, his war his last four years

579
00:25:35,478 --> 00:25:37,998
Speaker 1: was negative one point seven. But you know what, he

580
00:25:38,118 --> 00:25:41,238
Speaker 1: bounced from the Royals to the Brewers, to the Reds,

581
00:25:41,278 --> 00:25:43,398
Speaker 1: to the Rockies, to the Angels and actually went to

582
00:25:43,438 --> 00:25:47,318
Speaker 1: camp with White Sox last year. That's when Baseball retired him.

583
00:25:47,478 --> 00:25:49,758
Speaker 1: He didn't show enough in camp on a minor league

584
00:25:49,798 --> 00:25:52,118
Speaker 1: deal to make the team. So he's actually been retired,

585
00:25:52,198 --> 00:25:54,278
Speaker 1: just made it official. So this was a case where

586
00:25:54,278 --> 00:25:56,158
Speaker 1: the game retired him. He did go to camp on

587
00:25:56,198 --> 00:25:58,198
Speaker 1: a minor league deal and just wasn't good enough, didn't

588
00:25:58,198 --> 00:26:01,078
Speaker 1: make the team. But my point, Joe, is that teams

589
00:26:01,158 --> 00:26:03,598
Speaker 1: kept picking him up, either trading for him or picking

590
00:26:03,678 --> 00:26:06,518
Speaker 1: him up after he'd been released, because of some of

591
00:26:06,518 --> 00:26:10,118
Speaker 1: the tangibles that he could offer teams that we're trying

592
00:26:10,158 --> 00:26:11,998
Speaker 1: to win. You know, I don't think that need for

593
00:26:12,038 --> 00:26:14,038
Speaker 1: that kind of player ever goes away, but it is

594
00:26:14,078 --> 00:26:16,398
Speaker 1: getting That path is getting more and more narrow.

595
00:26:16,478 --> 00:26:19,558
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Okay, So what is our motivation? I

596
00:26:19,878 --> 00:26:20,198
Speaker 2: don't know.

597
00:26:20,238 --> 00:26:22,558
Speaker 3: I'm I'm a second division team for the last five years.

598
00:26:22,598 --> 00:26:25,798
Speaker 3: What is our motivation coming into this season? We've talked

599
00:26:25,838 --> 00:26:27,238
Speaker 3: about I think we mentioned it last week.

600
00:26:27,398 --> 00:26:28,318
Speaker 2: I don't know that.

601
00:26:28,438 --> 00:26:30,158
Speaker 3: What are we what is our goal for this year?

602
00:26:30,198 --> 00:26:32,078
Speaker 3: What are we trying to do here? What are we

603
00:26:32,078 --> 00:26:33,998
Speaker 3: trying to do over the next five years? Do we

604
00:26:34,038 --> 00:26:35,798
Speaker 3: ever even talk about winning the World Series?

605
00:26:35,838 --> 00:26:38,518
Speaker 2: What is our goal? Those are the kind of things.

606
00:26:38,518 --> 00:26:41,398
Speaker 3: So when you're constantly you know, you're spinning your wheels

607
00:26:41,438 --> 00:26:43,038
Speaker 3: in five hundred land, I mean, that's what a lot

608
00:26:43,078 --> 00:26:44,398
Speaker 3: of these teams are just trying to do.

609
00:26:44,638 --> 00:26:47,398
Speaker 2: So whenever you put your team together coming fall.

610
00:26:47,478 --> 00:26:50,598
Speaker 3: Into the season, there's gonna be some glaring holes and

611
00:26:50,638 --> 00:26:53,838
Speaker 3: then you're going to fill them with lower end regarding

612
00:26:54,078 --> 00:26:57,758
Speaker 3: salary structure, like nice looking guys, skillful players. Yes, but

613
00:26:58,038 --> 00:26:59,678
Speaker 3: he plugged him in with some of these guys like

614
00:26:59,718 --> 00:27:01,958
Speaker 3: you're talking about, and there's a lot of platoon potential

615
00:27:02,038 --> 00:27:03,918
Speaker 3: with all the guys you mentioned there guys that are

616
00:27:04,038 --> 00:27:05,838
Speaker 3: varieties that hit left these better and lefties that hit

617
00:27:05,878 --> 00:27:06,398
Speaker 3: righties better.

618
00:27:06,438 --> 00:27:06,998
Speaker 2: That kind of stuff.

619
00:27:07,038 --> 00:27:10,478
Speaker 3: There's different ways to ying and yanget as you're putting together. So,

620
00:27:10,518 --> 00:27:13,238
Speaker 3: but what is the motivation of the organization going into

621
00:27:13,638 --> 00:27:16,278
Speaker 3: this year? I mean, do people really talk about winning

622
00:27:16,278 --> 00:27:17,998
Speaker 3: the World Series? And do they have a five year

623
00:27:18,038 --> 00:27:20,078
Speaker 3: plan to win the World Series? Or do they just

624
00:27:20,118 --> 00:27:21,958
Speaker 3: have a five year plan to compete? That's what it

625
00:27:21,998 --> 00:27:24,678
Speaker 3: really looks like. It's almost like you succumb to the

626
00:27:25,038 --> 00:27:27,678
Speaker 3: big spenders and say there's no way we could keep up.

627
00:27:27,718 --> 00:27:29,238
Speaker 3: I mean, you just all you hear about is the

628
00:27:29,238 --> 00:27:31,878
Speaker 3: money spent and the acquiescence of those groups as being

629
00:27:32,518 --> 00:27:34,918
Speaker 3: the only groups that have a chance to play in

630
00:27:35,398 --> 00:27:37,118
Speaker 3: at the end of the season, the last game of

631
00:27:37,118 --> 00:27:39,238
Speaker 3: the year and win it. So that's where I get

632
00:27:39,318 --> 00:27:41,998
Speaker 3: hung up. Even with the two thousand and seven Rays.

633
00:27:42,038 --> 00:27:44,918
Speaker 3: I can't say the six because we were really bad,

634
00:27:45,238 --> 00:27:47,038
Speaker 3: But at the end of the two thousand and seven Rays,

635
00:27:47,038 --> 00:27:48,718
Speaker 3: I started seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

636
00:27:48,758 --> 00:27:50,158
Speaker 3: And you know, it was at the end of the

637
00:27:50,198 --> 00:27:52,278
Speaker 3: tunne where the Yankees and the Red Sox and look

638
00:27:52,318 --> 00:27:55,198
Speaker 3: at those rosters. That was some good stuff going on

639
00:27:55,238 --> 00:27:57,558
Speaker 3: back then really good stuff, and there wasn't a whole

640
00:27:57,558 --> 00:27:59,758
Speaker 3: lot of babies on those teams. It was really pretty

641
00:27:59,798 --> 00:28:03,678
Speaker 3: much a formidable group of established major league players augmented

642
00:28:03,678 --> 00:28:06,038
Speaker 3: by others that might not have been superstars but were

643
00:28:06,078 --> 00:28:08,358
Speaker 3: really good. So when they did a platoon on you man,

644
00:28:08,438 --> 00:28:11,238
Speaker 3: it was it was a formidable platoon. So I don't know,

645
00:28:11,278 --> 00:28:13,118
Speaker 3: we've moved so far away from that. I know it's

646
00:28:13,118 --> 00:28:17,678
Speaker 3: just a different it's different methods, it's different philosophically, and

647
00:28:17,718 --> 00:28:20,518
Speaker 3: it's all driven by math. But what is our motivation

648
00:28:20,678 --> 00:28:23,398
Speaker 3: going into the season, and what is our next motivation

649
00:28:23,478 --> 00:28:24,918
Speaker 3: over the next five years, and how we're going to

650
00:28:24,998 --> 00:28:25,278
Speaker 3: get there?

651
00:28:25,278 --> 00:28:27,438
Speaker 2: I just question that sometimes.

652
00:28:27,718 --> 00:28:29,398
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not wrong, but I can tell you it

653
00:28:29,438 --> 00:28:31,318
Speaker 1: actually goes on with teams trying to win the World

654
00:28:31,358 --> 00:28:33,238
Speaker 1: Series as well. I'll give you an example. The New

655
00:28:33,318 --> 00:28:36,598
Speaker 1: York Mets. They found gold last year in Jose Iglesias.

656
00:28:36,798 --> 00:28:39,478
Speaker 1: Right started the year in triple A, and my goodness,

657
00:28:39,558 --> 00:28:43,758
Speaker 1: he developed into one of their best clutch hitters. No question,

658
00:28:43,878 --> 00:28:46,198
Speaker 1: his influence on the team in the clubhouse was huge.

659
00:28:46,238 --> 00:28:48,158
Speaker 1: But you know what, the more he played as we

660
00:28:48,198 --> 00:28:51,158
Speaker 1: got deeper into the off season, you know, the clock

661
00:28:51,238 --> 00:28:53,678
Speaker 1: kind of struck midnight on him. And you know, the

662
00:28:53,718 --> 00:28:56,998
Speaker 1: Mets looked at this guy and he saw declining skills.

663
00:28:57,238 --> 00:29:00,318
Speaker 1: He always known for his hands in glove, first step

664
00:29:00,358 --> 00:29:03,518
Speaker 1: quickness not great, range not great, and teams began to

665
00:29:03,558 --> 00:29:06,318
Speaker 1: handle him offensively later in the year. So do you

666
00:29:06,318 --> 00:29:09,438
Speaker 1: bring him back? Well, they signed Nick Madrigal instead to

667
00:29:09,478 --> 00:29:12,758
Speaker 1: basically be their Jose Iglesias kind of do everything infielder.

668
00:29:13,038 --> 00:29:15,398
Speaker 1: Madrigald gets hurt in spring training, I'm sorry, broke his

669
00:29:15,478 --> 00:29:17,758
Speaker 1: shoulder out for the year, So you think, well, maybe

670
00:29:17,758 --> 00:29:20,558
Speaker 1: they bring him in now. No, now they have Luis

671
00:29:20,638 --> 00:29:23,638
Speaker 1: on Hail Acunya to be that guy in the infield,

672
00:29:23,918 --> 00:29:26,358
Speaker 1: young player. I don't know how you feel about young

673
00:29:26,398 --> 00:29:29,238
Speaker 1: players being utility guys, but you know that's what the

674
00:29:29,318 --> 00:29:31,278
Speaker 1: role is. And if you line them up for a tryout,

675
00:29:31,758 --> 00:29:36,838
Speaker 1: you would pick Acuna over Iglesias ten times out of ten, right,

676
00:29:36,998 --> 00:29:40,238
Speaker 1: So I think even in this case, the confidence in

677
00:29:40,318 --> 00:29:43,038
Speaker 1: the younger player after you've had the older player. And

678
00:29:43,078 --> 00:29:45,478
Speaker 1: I know the Mets fan is just loving Iglesias and

679
00:29:45,478 --> 00:29:47,958
Speaker 1: why not for the OMG and everything he gave the team,

680
00:29:48,758 --> 00:29:51,918
Speaker 1: But it's a cold business, and I think that.

681
00:29:51,838 --> 00:29:54,158
Speaker 4: Acona is just the better player, so you go with

682
00:29:54,198 --> 00:29:54,838
Speaker 4: the better player.

683
00:29:55,358 --> 00:29:56,638
Speaker 2: I don't disagree with that at all.

684
00:29:56,678 --> 00:29:58,758
Speaker 3: I mean, and you're talking about I have no problem

685
00:29:58,838 --> 00:30:01,438
Speaker 3: breaking in a young player as a utility guy with

686
00:30:01,518 --> 00:30:03,278
Speaker 3: the Angels. We did it with Sean Figgins in the

687
00:30:03,318 --> 00:30:05,598
Speaker 3: early two thous thou and then with the Rays. When

688
00:30:05,638 --> 00:30:08,318
Speaker 3: bj Upton first came up, I wanted to make him

689
00:30:08,318 --> 00:30:10,238
Speaker 3: into a utility guy. And I think it was the

690
00:30:10,278 --> 00:30:13,598
Speaker 3: second year, first or second second year he played second base,

691
00:30:14,238 --> 00:30:16,638
Speaker 3: Remember bj, We put bj at second base, and my

692
00:30:16,718 --> 00:30:18,878
Speaker 3: thought was, I told him the show up with all

693
00:30:18,958 --> 00:30:20,278
Speaker 3: kinds of gloves. I want him to work at a

694
00:30:20,278 --> 00:30:22,838
Speaker 3: whole bunch of different positions. And I thought if we

695
00:30:22,878 --> 00:30:25,598
Speaker 3: did that, he would spend more time thinking about his

696
00:30:25,718 --> 00:30:28,718
Speaker 3: defense and would just react more offensively and just hit.

697
00:30:29,078 --> 00:30:31,318
Speaker 3: And I thought he would benefit from that. He ended

698
00:30:31,358 --> 00:30:34,078
Speaker 3: up playing second base, and I was on his way

699
00:30:34,078 --> 00:30:35,918
Speaker 3: to a very good season before he blew out a

700
00:30:36,078 --> 00:30:37,918
Speaker 3: I think it was his achilles running down to first

701
00:30:37,918 --> 00:30:42,198
Speaker 3: base at Joe Robbie Stadium that time, Ben Zobrist. When

702
00:30:42,278 --> 00:30:44,518
Speaker 3: Zoe came up, it was obvious he was here at

703
00:30:44,518 --> 00:30:47,838
Speaker 3: a shortstop, but that wasn't really going to work. But

704
00:30:47,878 --> 00:30:49,678
Speaker 3: then here's this guy that once we stuck him in

705
00:30:49,678 --> 00:30:52,078
Speaker 3: the outfield, he became, you know, one of the most

706
00:30:52,078 --> 00:30:55,358
Speaker 3: prominent super utility guys possibly had ever played. I mean,

707
00:30:55,398 --> 00:30:57,638
Speaker 3: Zoe was that good. So I have no issues with

708
00:30:57,678 --> 00:31:00,478
Speaker 3: that whatsoever. None, And I don't want to misrepresent this.

709
00:31:00,598 --> 00:31:02,958
Speaker 3: I love young players absolutely. I love young players, and

710
00:31:02,958 --> 00:31:04,798
Speaker 3: I love young players that deserve to be there and

711
00:31:04,838 --> 00:31:06,918
Speaker 3: can handle it and all that kind of stuff. But

712
00:31:07,238 --> 00:31:09,598
Speaker 3: I also love middle class I love a lot of

713
00:31:09,598 --> 00:31:12,838
Speaker 3: good baseball players that could augment your group because they

714
00:31:12,838 --> 00:31:14,838
Speaker 3: have good skills on the field, they don't make mistakes,

715
00:31:14,838 --> 00:31:17,838
Speaker 3: and like you had already mentioned, the clubhouse benefits too,

716
00:31:18,198 --> 00:31:19,838
Speaker 3: So it's a fine line that you.

717
00:31:19,798 --> 00:31:20,398
Speaker 2: Got to walk.

718
00:31:20,598 --> 00:31:22,518
Speaker 3: I just don't like the fact that they're just totally

719
00:31:22,638 --> 00:31:25,398
Speaker 3: pushed out of it. He talked about Riz. I've just

720
00:31:25,438 --> 00:31:28,198
Speaker 3: been texting with that and hopefully have dinner with them soon.

721
00:31:28,678 --> 00:31:31,118
Speaker 3: But guys like this, I mean, how does that happen?

722
00:31:31,158 --> 00:31:33,078
Speaker 3: He is if you put him in and played him

723
00:31:33,118 --> 00:31:36,678
Speaker 3: the proper number of games. And we've talked about this too,

724
00:31:36,758 --> 00:31:40,518
Speaker 3: the way first basemens are considered these days compared to

725
00:31:40,558 --> 00:31:43,558
Speaker 3: the past, he could easily be a wonderful platune at

726
00:31:43,598 --> 00:31:46,038
Speaker 3: first base. Match him up the way you want, He's

727
00:31:46,038 --> 00:31:48,478
Speaker 3: still an outstanding field. I know what the metrics might say,

728
00:31:48,518 --> 00:31:50,518
Speaker 3: but the guy, he's one of the best throwing first

729
00:31:50,558 --> 00:31:53,158
Speaker 3: basemen I've ever had. Nobody even talks about that what

730
00:31:53,238 --> 00:31:55,278
Speaker 3: he does with his arm. And I think if you

731
00:31:55,318 --> 00:31:57,358
Speaker 3: played him less and put him in the right spots

732
00:31:57,398 --> 00:31:59,558
Speaker 3: and maybe just drop the DH spot on him once

733
00:31:59,558 --> 00:32:01,038
Speaker 3: in a while, you're gonna get a better product from

734
00:32:01,078 --> 00:32:03,278
Speaker 3: him too. So anyway, you could go back and forth.

735
00:32:03,358 --> 00:32:05,318
Speaker 3: I love young players one hundred percent. I love a

736
00:32:05,318 --> 00:32:06,838
Speaker 3: lot of these young players that are playing. I'm not

737
00:32:06,998 --> 00:32:10,078
Speaker 3: arguing that point, but I still love really well rounded

738
00:32:10,118 --> 00:32:12,358
Speaker 3: baseball players, liberal arts players, guys that know how to

739
00:32:12,358 --> 00:32:15,358
Speaker 3: play the game wholeheartedly fully, and that's that's what you

740
00:32:15,398 --> 00:32:17,598
Speaker 3: see missing. A lot and a lot of the guys

741
00:32:17,598 --> 00:32:19,838
Speaker 3: that are being pushed out are able to give you

742
00:32:19,878 --> 00:32:21,838
Speaker 3: that kind of game, but not given the opportunity.

743
00:32:22,078 --> 00:32:24,278
Speaker 4: There's no doubt they're getting squeezed out of the game.

744
00:32:24,718 --> 00:32:28,158
Speaker 1: When we get back Joe, the term baseball lifer, I

745
00:32:28,158 --> 00:32:29,878
Speaker 1: mean that is a term of endearment.

746
00:32:29,998 --> 00:32:30,238
Speaker 2: Right.

747
00:32:30,318 --> 00:32:32,398
Speaker 1: You've got to hear some of the stories about one

748
00:32:32,398 --> 00:32:34,798
Speaker 1: of the baseball lifers we lost in the last week.

749
00:32:34,958 --> 00:32:50,918
Speaker 1: We'll do that right after this on the book of Joe. Well, Joe,

750
00:32:50,958 --> 00:32:54,798
Speaker 1: I'm sure you can appreciate the life of one Bobby Malchmus.

751
00:32:55,078 --> 00:32:57,718
Speaker 1: He was born on the fourth of July in nineteen

752
00:32:57,838 --> 00:33:01,318
Speaker 1: thirty one in Newark, New Jersey, so right into the

753
00:33:01,318 --> 00:33:02,198
Speaker 1: Great Depression.

754
00:33:02,478 --> 00:33:03,758
Speaker 4: He did make it to the big leagues.

755
00:33:03,758 --> 00:33:06,278
Speaker 1: Play six years in the big leagues, mostly as a

756
00:33:06,398 --> 00:33:09,438
Speaker 1: utility guy. He got one run in every j job

757
00:33:09,478 --> 00:33:11,918
Speaker 1: at shortstop for the Phillies and sixty one we'll talk

758
00:33:11,958 --> 00:33:14,038
Speaker 1: about that. But he went on to manage in the

759
00:33:14,078 --> 00:33:17,678
Speaker 1: minor leagues. He nine years managing the minor leagues, Joe,

760
00:33:18,318 --> 00:33:25,158
Speaker 1: never above a ball, Eugene, Spartanburg, Watertown, West Palm Beach,

761
00:33:25,718 --> 00:33:31,158
Speaker 1: Lewis and Idaho, Miami, Bluefield, Lodie. He's with the Phillies,

762
00:33:31,238 --> 00:33:35,078
Speaker 1: the Expos, the Orioles organizations. I mean nine years never

763
00:33:35,278 --> 00:33:38,998
Speaker 1: above a ball. That is a lot of buses. And

764
00:33:39,078 --> 00:33:41,198
Speaker 1: from there he went on to be a scout for

765
00:33:41,438 --> 00:33:43,478
Speaker 1: Cleveland for a long time. He passed away at the

766
00:33:43,478 --> 00:33:46,838
Speaker 1: age of ninety three. I mean, think about a life

767
00:33:46,918 --> 00:33:48,918
Speaker 1: like that, Joe. I mean, there's so many you think

768
00:33:48,958 --> 00:33:51,918
Speaker 1: about all the people that he touched right, whether they

769
00:33:51,958 --> 00:33:54,198
Speaker 1: made it to the big leagues or not. Now, his

770
00:33:54,238 --> 00:33:58,118
Speaker 1: first managing job in Eugene, he had Buck Martinez and

771
00:33:58,238 --> 00:34:02,358
Speaker 1: Stump Merrill on that team, two future major league managers.

772
00:34:02,678 --> 00:34:05,118
Speaker 1: So you know, I just want to recognize somebody like

773
00:34:05,118 --> 00:34:07,038
Speaker 1: this because his name was never in the headlines for

774
00:34:07,038 --> 00:34:07,638
Speaker 1: the most part.

775
00:34:07,838 --> 00:34:10,238
Speaker 4: And what a full life dedicated to the game of baseball.

776
00:34:10,558 --> 00:34:12,878
Speaker 3: Man, I mean, you're just making me almost cry. I mean,

777
00:34:12,918 --> 00:34:15,918
Speaker 3: that is That's it. That's baseball right there. That's what

778
00:34:15,998 --> 00:34:18,678
Speaker 3: baseball should be all about. Stories like that, I could

779
00:34:18,718 --> 00:34:21,998
Speaker 3: really well reflect and empathize with a lot of that.

780
00:34:22,078 --> 00:34:24,798
Speaker 3: The bus riding and amount of time spending the minor leagues,

781
00:34:24,878 --> 00:34:27,918
Speaker 3: the buses, et cetera. The outposts, like you said, the

782
00:34:27,958 --> 00:34:31,278
Speaker 3: lives impacted all these players that he did impact it

783
00:34:31,358 --> 00:34:34,678
Speaker 3: nobody would ever know about. But purely the romance. That's

784
00:34:34,678 --> 00:34:37,638
Speaker 3: where the romance and the level of the game really exists.

785
00:34:38,158 --> 00:34:38,758
Speaker 2: That's pure.

786
00:34:38,998 --> 00:34:42,598
Speaker 3: That's like Division III football or baseball in college, or

787
00:34:42,718 --> 00:34:45,078
Speaker 3: even sometimes Division two where it's.

788
00:34:44,918 --> 00:34:46,198
Speaker 2: More more real.

789
00:34:47,118 --> 00:34:52,318
Speaker 3: I do cherish stat I'm so grateful that that was

790
00:34:52,358 --> 00:34:55,598
Speaker 3: my path to getting to the major leagues and eventually

791
00:34:56,078 --> 00:34:58,798
Speaker 3: becoming a manager. I'm so grateful that I spend all

792
00:34:58,798 --> 00:35:01,558
Speaker 3: those years in that kind of a situation. That's where

793
00:35:01,558 --> 00:35:03,838
Speaker 3: you really learn your craft, not only about baseball, but

794
00:35:03,958 --> 00:35:06,798
Speaker 3: people in general, how to deal with situations, things that

795
00:35:06,838 --> 00:35:10,078
Speaker 3: are not perfect by any means, adaptation, on the move,

796
00:35:10,198 --> 00:35:13,078
Speaker 3: all that stuff occurs when you're faced with those kind

797
00:35:13,118 --> 00:35:17,598
Speaker 3: of moments daily. So man, I seriously, that is really

798
00:35:18,798 --> 00:35:22,398
Speaker 3: heartwarming and endearing to hear all that, And having said

799
00:35:22,398 --> 00:35:24,238
Speaker 3: all that, it will never happen again. The way that

800
00:35:24,278 --> 00:35:26,558
Speaker 3: the game is structured right now, you're not gonna hear

801
00:35:26,558 --> 00:35:27,838
Speaker 3: about people like this anymore.

802
00:35:27,998 --> 00:35:28,678
Speaker 2: And that's a shame.

803
00:35:28,718 --> 00:35:32,238
Speaker 3: I mean, thinking about Tom Kauchman, when your coach's son,

804
00:35:32,318 --> 00:35:34,638
Speaker 3: Casey played in the Big League's coach was with the Angels.

805
00:35:34,758 --> 00:35:35,918
Speaker 2: He and I came up together.

806
00:35:36,438 --> 00:35:38,638
Speaker 3: Koach was in rookie ball for so many years I

807
00:35:38,678 --> 00:35:41,038
Speaker 3: don't even know how many years in Boise, Idaho and

808
00:35:41,318 --> 00:35:44,118
Speaker 3: other outposts. And he was with the Red Sox too,

809
00:35:44,198 --> 00:35:46,558
Speaker 3: and you never wanted to move him higher than that.

810
00:35:46,598 --> 00:35:48,518
Speaker 3: He got up the Triple A as a manager, but

811
00:35:48,918 --> 00:35:50,958
Speaker 3: I never wanted him out of a rookie ball because

812
00:35:50,958 --> 00:35:53,518
Speaker 3: his impact was so great. He was like the guy

813
00:35:53,558 --> 00:35:56,758
Speaker 3: that broke these guys in annually. And you ask anybody

814
00:35:56,798 --> 00:35:59,758
Speaker 3: that played for Coach back in the day. We talked

815
00:35:59,758 --> 00:36:02,358
Speaker 3: to Sean Perty Rock Perty's dad, he played for Coach.

816
00:36:02,398 --> 00:36:04,998
Speaker 3: I think Kotch signed him as an example. Those are

817
00:36:05,038 --> 00:36:08,118
Speaker 3: the kind of guys. When you mentioned this fellow, that's

818
00:36:08,158 --> 00:36:11,918
Speaker 3: immediately what I think about. Cotch was invaluable to the

819
00:36:12,358 --> 00:36:15,678
Speaker 3: success of the Angels for so many years, and nobody

820
00:36:15,718 --> 00:36:17,998
Speaker 3: ever talked about it, Nobody ever mentioned it. I knew

821
00:36:18,038 --> 00:36:21,038
Speaker 3: that Jeter Hines another guy that was like that. These

822
00:36:21,078 --> 00:36:23,238
Speaker 3: are the guys that really make a difference in a

823
00:36:23,238 --> 00:36:25,078
Speaker 3: lot of lives of young people. People that you never

824
00:36:25,118 --> 00:36:28,038
Speaker 3: see make the big leagues, but having been coached and

825
00:36:28,118 --> 00:36:33,438
Speaker 3: touched by these different guys really makes remarkable changing the

826
00:36:33,478 --> 00:36:34,518
Speaker 3: lives of these players.

827
00:36:34,518 --> 00:36:37,998
Speaker 2: So yeah, fella's name again one more time, Tommy, I'm sorry.

828
00:36:38,038 --> 00:36:38,838
Speaker 4: Bobby Malcolmus.

829
00:36:38,998 --> 00:36:41,238
Speaker 3: Bobby, Bobby and Kotch they sound like a lot of

830
00:36:41,278 --> 00:36:44,638
Speaker 3: the same guy you know, and Coch Coach is like

831
00:36:44,678 --> 00:36:47,678
Speaker 3: one of the most dedicated baseball people I've ever met.

832
00:36:47,878 --> 00:36:50,038
Speaker 1: Well, it will not surprise you that one of Bobby's

833
00:36:50,078 --> 00:36:51,678
Speaker 1: early mentors was Gene Mark.

834
00:36:51,918 --> 00:36:52,318
Speaker 2: There you go.

835
00:36:52,358 --> 00:36:54,958
Speaker 4: The nineteen sixty one Phillies. Bobby.

836
00:36:55,198 --> 00:36:57,278
Speaker 1: That was the one time that Bobby had a chance

837
00:36:57,318 --> 00:37:00,398
Speaker 1: to play really every day. Wow, this is amazing. Nineteen

838
00:37:00,438 --> 00:37:04,758
Speaker 1: sixty one Phillies. He actually got an MVP vote, Bobby Malcomus,

839
00:37:04,918 --> 00:37:07,718
Speaker 1: he finished twenty second, He got a vote. He hit

840
00:37:07,798 --> 00:37:11,638
Speaker 1: two thirty one for a Phillies team that lost one

841
00:37:11,718 --> 00:37:14,798
Speaker 1: hundred and seven games, and someone put him on his

842
00:37:14,918 --> 00:37:18,198
Speaker 1: MVP valley. First of all, gen Mock played him because

843
00:37:18,238 --> 00:37:20,998
Speaker 1: he knew that this guy was a quote unquote winning ballplayer,

844
00:37:21,158 --> 00:37:23,878
Speaker 1: right the intangibles that he saw. But a guy who

845
00:37:23,918 --> 00:37:26,558
Speaker 1: hit two thirty one with the two seventy six on

846
00:37:26,638 --> 00:37:29,038
Speaker 1: base percentage actually got an MVP vote because I think

847
00:37:29,078 --> 00:37:33,598
Speaker 1: back then people appreciated what a winning ballplayer was. Let

848
00:37:33,678 --> 00:37:35,958
Speaker 1: me tell you about this sixty one Phillies team, Joe.

849
00:37:36,758 --> 00:37:39,918
Speaker 1: They have one point, lost twenty three games in a row.

850
00:37:39,998 --> 00:37:44,318
Speaker 1: They went basically an entire month without winning a ballgame.

851
00:37:45,118 --> 00:37:48,998
Speaker 1: They finally won the second game with a doubleheader against

852
00:37:48,998 --> 00:37:52,678
Speaker 1: the Milwaukee Braves, breaking the Braves ten game winning streak.

853
00:37:52,758 --> 00:37:55,518
Speaker 1: Isn't baseball great? By the way, a team that loses

854
00:37:55,558 --> 00:37:57,198
Speaker 1: twenty three in a row beats a team that won

855
00:37:57,278 --> 00:37:59,718
Speaker 1: ten in a row. They go back to the clubhouse,

856
00:37:59,758 --> 00:38:03,238
Speaker 1: the old County Stadium, Milwaukee, and I'm sure remember that place. Yeah,

857
00:38:03,358 --> 00:38:06,718
Speaker 1: spare and cheese and crackers and beer. That was a

858
00:38:06,758 --> 00:38:11,358
Speaker 1: postgame spread, big celebration there, Gene Mark. They have the

859
00:38:11,398 --> 00:38:14,198
Speaker 1: photographers in there to celebrate like it's the World Series.

860
00:38:14,598 --> 00:38:16,838
Speaker 4: And they asked Mack to hug the picture. Who won.

861
00:38:16,878 --> 00:38:19,598
Speaker 4: A guy by the name of John Buzzheart And by

862
00:38:19,638 --> 00:38:21,478
Speaker 4: the way, it's just so good.

863
00:38:21,678 --> 00:38:27,718
Speaker 1: He was from Prosperity, South Carolina. They asked them to,

864
00:38:27,878 --> 00:38:29,918
Speaker 1: you know, post for a picture. Jean, put your arm

865
00:38:29,958 --> 00:38:30,478
Speaker 1: around him.

866
00:38:30,758 --> 00:38:30,918
Speaker 4: You know.

867
00:38:31,278 --> 00:38:33,078
Speaker 1: Jene talks about his team. He says, I never saw

868
00:38:33,118 --> 00:38:35,278
Speaker 1: a group of guys stick together the way this team did.

869
00:38:35,798 --> 00:38:38,478
Speaker 1: But they asked him to smile, Gene, he can picture this, Joe.

870
00:38:38,518 --> 00:38:42,438
Speaker 1: He had a hard time smiling. He actually said, how

871
00:38:42,678 --> 00:38:44,638
Speaker 1: has a guy who's won one out of his last

872
00:38:44,718 --> 00:38:48,558
Speaker 1: twenty four games crack a smile and joke around. He

873
00:38:48,638 --> 00:38:51,558
Speaker 1: just couldn't do it, but he did take the picture. Anyway,

874
00:38:51,638 --> 00:38:55,318
Speaker 1: the Phillies come home. The road trip ends. They fly home.

875
00:38:55,878 --> 00:38:58,958
Speaker 1: They land at the Philadelphia Airport at one o'clock in

876
00:38:58,998 --> 00:39:04,318
Speaker 1: the morning in a rainstorm, and there's five hundred people there. Tom,

877
00:39:05,238 --> 00:39:09,358
Speaker 1: there's actually a band called the Last Battalion that is

878
00:39:09,398 --> 00:39:13,638
Speaker 1: playing songs as the Phillies, losers of twenty three straight

879
00:39:13,718 --> 00:39:17,398
Speaker 1: breaking the streak, walk off the plane. The fans create

880
00:39:17,398 --> 00:39:19,438
Speaker 1: an aisle for them to walk through while the band

881
00:39:19,518 --> 00:39:21,758
Speaker 1: is playing to welcome this team home at one o'clock

882
00:39:21,798 --> 00:39:23,878
Speaker 1: in the morning during a rainstorm.

883
00:39:24,038 --> 00:39:24,758
Speaker 4: How great is that?

884
00:39:25,158 --> 00:39:25,518
Speaker 2: Amen?

885
00:39:26,438 --> 00:39:30,038
Speaker 3: That that exceeds anything that could possibly watch on social

886
00:39:30,198 --> 00:39:33,358
Speaker 3: media today, any kind of video clip that is heartwarming.

887
00:39:33,398 --> 00:39:35,398
Speaker 3: And I could just say, I thought you were gonna say,

888
00:39:35,478 --> 00:39:36,718
Speaker 3: Jean flipped the spread.

889
00:39:36,918 --> 00:39:38,118
Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna go there.

890
00:39:38,358 --> 00:39:43,238
Speaker 3: That's one went out of twenty four games that see that.

891
00:39:43,278 --> 00:39:45,638
Speaker 3: Those are I know there are times gone by. He

892
00:39:45,638 --> 00:39:47,398
Speaker 3: ain't coming back. It's never going to be that way,

893
00:39:47,478 --> 00:39:50,158
Speaker 3: and I get it. But those when I think of

894
00:39:50,998 --> 00:39:54,998
Speaker 3: sending through baseball and how I started out, that's those

895
00:39:54,998 --> 00:39:56,918
Speaker 3: are the kind of stories that make it all worthwhile.

896
00:39:57,478 --> 00:40:00,478
Speaker 3: That is why as a kid I wanted to do baseball.

897
00:40:00,478 --> 00:40:02,718
Speaker 3: It was larger than life. I don't even know if

898
00:40:02,718 --> 00:40:05,318
Speaker 3: I could say that anymore, but it was. There was

899
00:40:05,358 --> 00:40:09,038
Speaker 3: such a connection to every part of the country, every kid,

900
00:40:09,078 --> 00:40:11,678
Speaker 3: every father, a lot of moms too, man were into

901
00:40:11,718 --> 00:40:14,878
Speaker 3: my mom was there's such a strong connection with all that,

902
00:40:14,918 --> 00:40:17,998
Speaker 3: the grassroots component of it, that it's just the time

903
00:40:18,038 --> 00:40:18,398
Speaker 3: going by.

904
00:40:18,398 --> 00:40:18,838
Speaker 2: I get it.

905
00:40:18,878 --> 00:40:22,038
Speaker 3: I know you get accused of being nostalgic or whatever,

906
00:40:22,758 --> 00:40:25,838
Speaker 3: but that's that's real right there. That's that's that's that's uh.

907
00:40:26,518 --> 00:40:29,638
Speaker 3: That's Division III college football or baseball whatever.

908
00:40:29,438 --> 00:40:31,598
Speaker 2: That's what that is. And the fans showing up.

909
00:40:31,598 --> 00:40:35,238
Speaker 3: I that that in and of itself is worth a movie,

910
00:40:35,478 --> 00:40:37,598
Speaker 3: that that whole day, if they could recreate that or

911
00:40:37,598 --> 00:40:38,318
Speaker 3: a mini series.

912
00:40:38,678 --> 00:40:40,478
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's all right.

913
00:40:40,518 --> 00:40:44,638
Speaker 3: That's the stuff that to me, that we're missing, the

914
00:40:44,678 --> 00:40:47,718
Speaker 3: fact that you can't get any more pure in regards

915
00:40:47,718 --> 00:40:50,598
Speaker 3: to why you're doing something. It wasn't about money, it

916
00:40:50,718 --> 00:40:54,518
Speaker 3: wasn't about fame or acclaim. It just because they really

917
00:40:54,718 --> 00:40:58,318
Speaker 3: did love the game. And and that's that's the part

918
00:40:58,318 --> 00:40:59,958
Speaker 3: that I think some guys have yet.

919
00:40:59,958 --> 00:41:02,038
Speaker 2: But it's a lot don't just the.

920
00:41:01,998 --> 00:41:06,198
Speaker 3: Way the day is formulated, the way they pressure's mouth,

921
00:41:06,518 --> 00:41:10,398
Speaker 3: the scrutiny involved, all this other stuff that technology I

922
00:41:10,438 --> 00:41:14,758
Speaker 3: still believe subtracts emotion and connection because it just it

923
00:41:14,878 --> 00:41:17,958
Speaker 3: just does its way too sterile. So anyway, days gone

924
00:41:17,958 --> 00:41:21,038
Speaker 3: by let's do the mini series. Let's contact Netflix or somebody.

925
00:41:21,238 --> 00:41:23,038
Speaker 3: But that's a hell of a story. Well done, man,

926
00:41:23,478 --> 00:41:23,998
Speaker 3: I love it.

927
00:41:24,318 --> 00:41:27,238
Speaker 1: The Pride of Newark, New Jersey Bobby Malkmus. He was

928
00:41:27,318 --> 00:41:30,958
Speaker 1: ninety three years old. He went to Southside High in Newark,

929
00:41:30,998 --> 00:41:33,678
Speaker 1: then Saint Benedict's Prep and was signed.

930
00:41:33,278 --> 00:41:37,638
Speaker 4: By Honey Russell. Is that name ring a bell? Honey Russell,

931
00:41:37,678 --> 00:41:40,598
Speaker 4: the old basketball coach at Seaton Hall. It was the game.

932
00:41:40,638 --> 00:41:41,718
Speaker 4: He was a scout as well.

933
00:41:42,238 --> 00:41:43,838
Speaker 1: That was back in the day when you had these

934
00:41:43,838 --> 00:41:47,358
Speaker 1: gurus who you know, cross pollinated in sports. They were

935
00:41:47,438 --> 00:41:51,918
Speaker 1: just good teachers, educators, you know, analysts, whatever you want

936
00:41:51,958 --> 00:41:53,758
Speaker 1: to call them. You know, they knew what a winning

937
00:41:53,758 --> 00:41:56,518
Speaker 1: ball player was, no matter the sport. So these guys

938
00:41:56,518 --> 00:41:59,238
Speaker 1: contributed to multiple sports. Honey Russell was one of those guys,

939
00:41:59,238 --> 00:42:01,078
Speaker 1: a longtime scout as well as a Hall of Fame

940
00:42:01,118 --> 00:42:03,878
Speaker 1: basketball coach. He was the one that gave Bobby mal

941
00:42:04,078 --> 00:42:07,558
Speaker 1: Miss a chance of the game and was rewarded with

942
00:42:07,598 --> 00:42:09,518
Speaker 1: a lifetime to the game of baseball.

943
00:42:10,358 --> 00:42:12,038
Speaker 2: Seriously, that is such wonderful stuff.

944
00:42:12,078 --> 00:42:14,998
Speaker 3: And I mean just drove up to South Carolinias that

945
00:42:14,998 --> 00:42:17,478
Speaker 3: I have been waxing nostalgic to begin with. And now

946
00:42:17,518 --> 00:42:20,238
Speaker 3: you're going to go on this trope for me, right now,

947
00:42:20,278 --> 00:42:22,518
Speaker 3: that's going to I'm not going to cry, but god dang,

948
00:42:22,518 --> 00:42:23,878
Speaker 3: you're starting to hit some strings.

949
00:42:23,878 --> 00:42:24,038
Speaker 2: Man.

950
00:42:24,118 --> 00:42:26,838
Speaker 3: That's such good stuff because I'm thinking about all the

951
00:42:26,838 --> 00:42:29,638
Speaker 3: different scouts. It was Gene Thompson and all these guys

952
00:42:30,038 --> 00:42:31,758
Speaker 3: back in the day, Bob Aloo, Bob Clear is in

953
00:42:31,798 --> 00:42:35,438
Speaker 3: our book. That's what baseball represents to me. These kind

954
00:42:35,478 --> 00:42:39,518
Speaker 3: of thoughts, these kind of memories, and nobody's capable of

955
00:42:39,718 --> 00:42:41,558
Speaker 3: generating these kind of memories or thoughts anyway.

956
00:42:41,558 --> 00:42:42,398
Speaker 2: I really don't think so.

957
00:42:42,478 --> 00:42:46,518
Speaker 3: It's just too complicated, too much involvement by things out

958
00:42:46,518 --> 00:42:48,638
Speaker 3: of your control as opposed to just being able to

959
00:42:48,678 --> 00:42:51,158
Speaker 3: control your own destiny. Sometimes it's too bad. I mean,

960
00:42:51,198 --> 00:42:53,318
Speaker 3: this is the kind of stuff that novels were written of,

961
00:42:53,598 --> 00:42:56,118
Speaker 3: that movies were made of. I like we're just talking about,

962
00:42:56,478 --> 00:42:58,038
Speaker 3: and this is the kind of stuff that when you

963
00:42:58,318 --> 00:43:00,758
Speaker 3: have a chance to sit in a room by yourself

964
00:43:00,878 --> 00:43:03,398
Speaker 3: and ruminate on, these are the kind of things that matter.

965
00:43:04,038 --> 00:43:04,958
Speaker 4: Well said, Joe.

966
00:43:05,158 --> 00:43:07,678
Speaker 1: And speaking of well said, you always bring us home

967
00:43:07,718 --> 00:43:09,958
Speaker 1: with some words of wisdom. What do you have this

968
00:43:10,038 --> 00:43:12,238
Speaker 1: week to end this episode of the Book of Joe.

969
00:43:12,638 --> 00:43:17,158
Speaker 2: We're on point, Buddy, right point. I got a fello

970
00:43:17,158 --> 00:43:18,598
Speaker 2: by name of abdu Kalom.

971
00:43:18,638 --> 00:43:21,118
Speaker 3: I don't know who this is, but I was thinking

972
00:43:21,118 --> 00:43:24,118
Speaker 3: about the word fate this morning before I drove up here.

973
00:43:24,198 --> 00:43:27,518
Speaker 3: Last night I meant Paully's Island, South Carolina. I'm hanging

974
00:43:27,558 --> 00:43:29,558
Speaker 3: out for a couple of days here, meeting up with

975
00:43:29,598 --> 00:43:33,598
Speaker 3: Thom Sagudo, a very famous young golf instructor. Had dinner

976
00:43:33,598 --> 00:43:36,438
Speaker 3: with them last night. What a wonderful personality. And it's

977
00:43:36,438 --> 00:43:38,478
Speaker 3: going to be here for a couple three days. But

978
00:43:38,558 --> 00:43:41,398
Speaker 3: I'm driving up Paully's Island. You think you're I don't know.

979
00:43:41,438 --> 00:43:42,718
Speaker 3: It could have been any year. It could have been

980
00:43:42,798 --> 00:43:46,278
Speaker 3: nineteen thirty, forty fifty sixty on rot seventeen coming up

981
00:43:46,318 --> 00:43:50,878
Speaker 3: from Charleston. So it became very nostalgic in regards to like,

982
00:43:51,158 --> 00:43:52,678
Speaker 3: you almost feel like you've lived here before.

983
00:43:53,198 --> 00:43:54,918
Speaker 2: So anyway, it was fate.

984
00:43:55,118 --> 00:43:59,478
Speaker 3: Be active, take on responsibility, work for the things that

985
00:43:59,558 --> 00:44:02,998
Speaker 3: you believe in. If you do not, you are surrendering

986
00:44:03,078 --> 00:44:04,358
Speaker 3: your fate to others.

987
00:44:05,318 --> 00:44:05,918
Speaker 2: And that's it.

988
00:44:06,318 --> 00:44:10,478
Speaker 3: I mean, that's I think that really sums up you

989
00:44:10,558 --> 00:44:12,318
Speaker 3: know what I believe in general. In these days, I

990
00:44:12,398 --> 00:44:15,758
Speaker 3: think we do surrender too often, and when you do

991
00:44:15,918 --> 00:44:18,678
Speaker 3: try to stand up to what you believe in, you

992
00:44:18,758 --> 00:44:20,998
Speaker 3: get shot it down sometimes you know people will and

993
00:44:21,078 --> 00:44:24,918
Speaker 3: then you succumb to the majority when you shouldn't. If

994
00:44:24,958 --> 00:44:28,758
Speaker 3: you really feel strongly about something, don't surrender. Don't let

995
00:44:28,798 --> 00:44:31,278
Speaker 3: anybody else control your fate. Go out there and make

996
00:44:31,318 --> 00:44:33,998
Speaker 3: it happen, make it work. You have to have a

997
00:44:34,038 --> 00:44:36,478
Speaker 3: real strong belief. You have to believe in yourself. There's

998
00:44:36,518 --> 00:44:39,038
Speaker 3: a confidence level to do those kind of things. So

999
00:44:39,678 --> 00:44:41,918
Speaker 3: I love the line, do not surrender your fate to others.

1000
00:44:42,078 --> 00:44:43,038
Speaker 3: I cannot agree with that.

1001
00:44:43,198 --> 00:44:46,998
Speaker 4: More good stuff there, Joe. I just the word conviction

1002
00:44:47,318 --> 00:44:48,158
Speaker 4: came to my mind.

1003
00:44:49,198 --> 00:44:51,958
Speaker 1: And as you know, going out there to take golf lessons,

1004
00:44:52,438 --> 00:44:54,678
Speaker 1: that's right, all right, it's a big part of what

1005
00:44:54,798 --> 00:44:54,998
Speaker 1: you do.

1006
00:44:55,358 --> 00:44:59,118
Speaker 4: Conviction, be convicted, Know what you believe in and be

1007
00:44:59,318 --> 00:45:00,158
Speaker 4: convicted in it.

1008
00:45:00,318 --> 00:45:00,878
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

1009
00:45:01,158 --> 00:45:02,998
Speaker 4: Good luck on the course and we'll see it next time.

1010
00:45:02,998 --> 00:45:03,718
Speaker 4: By the book of Joe.

1011
00:45:03,958 --> 00:45:05,758
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you get a chance to check out Tom Sagudo,

1012
00:45:06,078 --> 00:45:07,198
Speaker 3: his videos are outstanding.

1013
00:45:07,238 --> 00:45:10,278
Speaker 2: A young guy, a lot of energy. I'm looking forward

1014
00:45:10,278 --> 00:45:10,798
Speaker 2: to this morning.

1015
00:45:10,918 --> 00:45:11,598
Speaker 4: I'll check it out.

1016
00:45:11,878 --> 00:45:13,838
Speaker 2: See you all right, buddy, alright man. Bye.

1017
00:45:20,998 --> 00:45:24,158
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1018
00:45:24,438 --> 00:45:29,238
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1019
00:45:29,518 --> 00:45:31,278
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.