1 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Save for Protection of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: I'm any and I'm more on Loco Bomb and today 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: we have an episode for you about G. Yes. Oh yes, uh, 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: And I struggled a lot. I was very concerned about 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: the pronunciation. But I think I've got it. I think 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: I can do it. Um yeah, we'll see, we'll see. 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: Was there any particular reason this was on your mind? 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: Was there? I love how every time I ask you this, 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: you're like, it could have been it was days and 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: days ago, it could have done anything. Um, it would 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: have been. I'm gonna go ahead and say no, no, 12 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: just absolutely, it just it just a sprung fully formed 13 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: into my mind. Ah. Or you have a mysterious system 14 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: which I really really appreciate. Actually, and I don't know 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: how it functions, so I'm just kind of like, oh okay, yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, 16 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: I don't know how it functions either. It's a mystery 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: to all of us. It's a possibility that I was 18 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: like looking into like maybe like a cheese in our 19 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: rotation of topic concepts, and I was looking at Panier 20 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: and then I kind of uh hard shifted over to 21 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: G and then when you know what, yes, yes, the time, 22 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: the time is right, Uh, something in the air. Yeah, 23 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: I just wanted to talk about butter again, I'm not 24 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: sure m hm. And paneer is also a great topic, 25 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: which we will return to one. Oh oh absolutely, yeah, yes, yes, yes, 26 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: I will say. I don't have too much experience with Actually, 27 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure I've had in a ton stuff. Yeah. My mom, 28 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: funnily enough, she uses it a lot, really, but she 29 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: only started to use it after I moved down, all right, 30 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: she uses it all the time. Uh. Yeah, I've never 31 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: made it myself. Um, And having done all of this reading, 32 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, well that's on the list. But but yeah, yeah, no, 33 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: I've I've cooked with it a few times. Um, I've 34 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: got friends who use it yeah all the time and 35 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: just saying its praises continually. Um and yeah, as we 36 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: have talked about many times on the show, I do, 37 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: I do love all of the really beautiful Indian slash 38 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: South Asian subcontinent cuisine restaurants around Atlanta. And uh, it's 39 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: basically just like making me want like beer Yanni again. 40 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, my little brother is going to 41 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: hang out with me this and he's vegetarian and usually 42 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: when we hang out. We get Indian food because they 43 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: have so many great vegetarian options, and I'm already like 44 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: excited and playing what I'm gonna get everything? Oh yeah, okay, 45 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: Well does this bring us to our question? I suppose 46 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: it does. What is it? Well? Ge is a butter 47 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: product that has been cooked down and strained to remove 48 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: the water content and the milk solids, respectively, leaving pretty 49 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: much just the fat and the fat soluble stuff. Uh. 50 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: It is a soft, solid, room temperature and can be 51 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: stored at room temperature without spoiling. It's also got some 52 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: like nutty or toasty flavors from having been cooked. It's 53 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: like clarified butter, but with more than just butter as 54 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: a flavor, or like browned butter but with the bits 55 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: taken out. Yeah. Um, it's like coconut oil that came 56 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: from a cow and is lactose free and doesn't taste 57 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: of coconut. H It's like it's like someone out there 58 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: wants you to have nice things. It's like it's like 59 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: it's dangerous to go alone. Take this but about butter 60 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: um And I feel like I've used that line before, 61 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: maybe with a cheese um. But I feel like it 62 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: applies here too. Yeah. I think it was a similar 63 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: thing in Lintel's tows, like it's like, oh, I'm going 64 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,119 Speaker 1: to take care of you. Go at things similar vibe, 65 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: similar vibe. Okay, all right, I I again. I do 66 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: get so excited every time I get to talk milk science. Um. 67 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: And you know, it's for good reasons, because because milk 68 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: is this useful food, because it's got fats and proteins 69 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: and sugars and water and some nice vitamins and minerals. 70 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: But the problem is that lots of bacteria of find 71 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: milk to be a useful food too, So if you 72 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: don't eat it right away, they will, uh, and that 73 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: causes spoilage all flavors and textures. Maybe some of the 74 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: microbes in there would make you sick if you consumed them, 75 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: and so humans have come up with all kinds of 76 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: ways to deal with that and preserve this, this tasty, 77 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: nutritious stuff for longer. Modern science has given us a 78 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,799 Speaker 1: pasteurization and sterilization. But classically you were looking at trying 79 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: to direct the spoilage, and you do this by taking 80 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: any number of steps to make the milk an environment 81 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: where harmful microbes cannot thrive. You know, they need a 82 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: certain pH level, They need water and sugars and proteins. Um. 83 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: Often this involves introducing helpful bacteria that won't hurt you. 84 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: And also we'll use up some of the resources and 85 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: also will acidify the milk. That happens to help you 86 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: gather up the stuff that you want in the milk 87 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: and get rid of the water. Um. And at that 88 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 1: point you can make stuff like yogurt, or cheese or butter. 89 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: All three of those things will stay good longer than milk, 90 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: but it's best to keep them cool. And since refrigeration 91 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: as we know it has only been around for like 92 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: a hundred years, what's next? Well, Uh, you take butter, 93 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: which is which is really concentrated milk fat. Okay, like 94 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: like milk is like five fat with a little stuff 95 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: and a lot of water. Butter is like fat with 96 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: a little stuff and a little water. Um with g 97 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: you're looking to achieve like n plus fat with a 98 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: little stuff and zero point five water or less. So 99 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: you heat your butter until those fats reach their boiling point, 100 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: which is way above the boiling point of water. Right um. Uh, 101 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: The the sugars and the proteins in the butter um 102 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: separate out and start cooking in the oil like like 103 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: the brown up a little. Um. That's the Mayard reaction 104 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: at work. Um. And then you simmer the butter for 105 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: a good like fifteen plus minutes, releasing all of that 106 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: water as steam as it boils off. Um. And then 107 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: you can physically strain out the browned milk solids with 108 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: a steve and the resulting oil is g And yeah, 109 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: it really is simple to make it home, as long 110 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: as you keep an eye on that simmer, don't let 111 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: the milk solids burn. But these days you can also 112 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: buy pre made its stores. There's even a whole market 113 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: out there for gourmet g H flavored with things like 114 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: green tea or cumin or apple or smoked salmon or truffle. 115 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: I know, right, well, I'm already writing up my mother's Christmas. 116 00:07:54,400 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: Have that all there, Okay? And on On the other end, Uh, 117 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: When made commercially, GE is sometimes made straight from cream 118 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: instead of butter, So I don't know, you gotta get 119 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: a get a whole range of products out there. Yeah, 120 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: uh what whatever that range results in, a g is 121 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: going to have a melting point of like five degrees fahrenheit. 122 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: Oh I didn't, I didn't look up the Celsius translation 123 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: of that. It's a little bit above room temperature UM, 124 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: which means that g is generally solid but but soft 125 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: at room temperature. When it's made with with butter from 126 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: grass fed cows, it'll be just golden yellow in color um. 127 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: When it's made from cultured butter, it's got just a 128 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: very intense butter flavor because the culturing that lactic acid 129 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: bacteria process is what gives butter butter flavor. Um. It's 130 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: also nutty and rich and and right you have a 131 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: buttery um without being creamy or sweet like butter can be. 132 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: And it is shelf stable and used as a cooking 133 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: oil in all kinds of applications from saute ng too 134 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: deep frying, and also as a topping or a dip 135 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 1: for for breads and other foods. M m m m m. 136 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: I love this. I have a whole world to explore. Uh, well, 137 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: what about the nutrition um. If butter is fat concentrated milk, 138 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: ghee is fat concentrated butter um, so so it is 139 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: a calorie dense food um high and saturated fats um. 140 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: It retains those fat soluble vitamins and minerals, which is 141 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: great as a cooking oil. It's nifty because um it 142 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: has a smoke point of like all the way up 143 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: at like like over four fifty fahrenheit, like like up 144 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 1: to like four eighty eight five fahrenheit or like to 145 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: fifty celsius um, which means that you can use it 146 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 1: to cook things at higher temperatures than stuff like butter 147 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: without the oil starting to burn. And studies have found 148 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: that it produces fewer toxic compounds when heated to those 149 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: high temperatures than vegetable oils do, so that's really cool. Uh. 150 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: It's generally also safe for people who have UM milk 151 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: sensitivities or allergies because usually those those sensitivities are to 152 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: the lactose and the casines, which have been removed in 153 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: the case of key. Yeah, okay, okay, Well, we do 154 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: have some numbers for you. We do. As of the 155 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: global industrial production of g was just over six million 156 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: tons and growing um. Over half of that, maybe like 157 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: six was being produced from cow milk, with buffalo and 158 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: cow buffalo mixes making up the rest, and the value 159 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: of the market was estimated at forty five point seven 160 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: billion dollars as of Yeah. Um uh. This is a 161 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: traditional Indian product, and it's important to remember here that 162 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: India has the largest dairy industry in the world, and furthermore, 163 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: the G production is the largest segment of that market. Ah. 164 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: I've read though in a couple of places that around 165 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: of the G in India is still made by small, 166 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: independent producers using the traditional process. Um wow. Yeah. Also 167 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: in that traditional process, it takes about thirty liters of 168 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: milk to make one leader of G. Wow. I did 169 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: see one statistic that at least one company reported increase 170 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: in demand for G during the pandemic. Yeah, which sounds 171 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: like it could definitely be involved and a lot of 172 00:11:53,840 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: nostalgic comforting dishes, but just itself. Oh yeah, I'm making 173 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: like a heavy nod. Yeah, but I know the feeling 174 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: when you're like I just want some yeah, right, Like 175 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: sometimes it's that day, You're sometimes that day, and during 176 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: the pandemic it was that day a lot. Oh yes. 177 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: But there has been a long history of oh yes, 178 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: and we are going to get into that as soon 179 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 1: as we get back from a quick break for a 180 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors, and we're back, Thank you. Sponsored yes, 181 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: thank you. Okay, So who there's a lot of past 182 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: we could have gone down with this one, I will 183 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: tell you that. And there there are so many things 184 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: where I'm kind of gonna condense it like you might 185 00:12:53,480 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: a G because there's just so much like traditional history 186 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: and legends around um and some of it I didn't 187 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: feel super confident talking about. So I would love if 188 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: listeners I would right in if we miss anything. UM 189 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: as always oh yeah, value your input and kind of 190 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: you know, low key depend on your inputs. Yes, yes, yes, 191 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: keep it coming. Um but okay, originated in India thousands 192 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: of years ago, perhaps as early as fift b c E. 193 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: Or maybe even as far back as eight thousand years 194 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: ago to the end is Valley based on so they 195 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: found like archaeological lipid evidence on pottery in that region, 196 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: which I just love this. That is the HBO Max series. 197 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: I want to see archaeological evidence. Yes, And I wanted 198 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 1: to be so serious like I think this is SKI 199 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: I would every week, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. 200 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 1: In many ways, G was a solution type of thing 201 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: where it was born out of necessity because it was 202 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: too hot to store butter in that and that region 203 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: for anything longer than a short period of time because 204 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: of the heat, and one way to increase the shelf 205 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: life was to clarify usually caw yak milk butter um 206 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: basically to heat it until the water evaporates and leaving 207 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: behind those milk solids. Um. So it was something that 208 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: people had to figure out, which I think we talked 209 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: about a lot in these in these episodes. Yeah, it's 210 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: such a such a smart way of a um. Right, 211 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: doing a little bit of that sterilization because you're cooking 212 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: it long enough to to to kill off a lot 213 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: of the critters that might be in there. And yeah, 214 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: also right preserve it for longer. Yeah, I love it. 215 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: I mean this early on people were figuring this out. 216 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: Um and Yeah. For Millennia and India, recipes have featured 217 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: g miss have all and painted as something divine. One 218 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: such story goes that the Hindu lord of the creatures 219 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: rubbed his hands together to create gee and then he 220 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: tossed it into the fire to make offspring. So it's 221 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: like the very beginning. Yeah, yeah, and people in India 222 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: have long used it as part of a healthy diet. 223 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: It was described as an item that was desired by 224 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: the gods and Sanskrit writings, Vada cooking was split into 225 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: two categories, foods cooked and gee and foods that weren't. 226 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: And on top of that, it has long been seen 227 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: as medicinal. Yeah, and used to help digestion, to lower 228 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: temperature and to help with burn wounds a bunch of 229 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: other things too. Um yeah. And as we talked about 230 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: in our massalic shy episode, um, there wasn't really a 231 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: formalized dairy industry in India until the nineteen hundreds. So 232 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: skipping a little bit ahead, um uh. That was starting 233 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: with a push from British honists during World War One, um, 234 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: leading up all the way through Operation Flood in the 235 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, which transformed India into the largest dairy producer 236 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: in the world. As mentioned above. Um, and this is 237 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: all super complicated, uh And right, India is big and multicultural. 238 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: But suffice it to say that during the nine hundreds, 239 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: the availability of milk for products like ghe really boomed. Yes, 240 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: And I guess we should say this is not the 241 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: cow episode. This is still not This is still not 242 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: the dairy industry in India. Episode No. I just done 243 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: butter and types of milk, but still yeah, yeah, yeah, um, 244 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: future episodes for us. That's a problem for future US. Exactly. 245 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: You're welcome, future US. You're gonna love it. Uh. There 246 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: was a shortage of ghee in India when the population 247 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: exploded in the nineteen thirties. Um, and then this is 248 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: kind of actually going back. But so if we have 249 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: g production happening in India, in Europe kind of around 250 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: the same time as this was going on, I should 251 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: say not around the same time, but folks started using 252 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: crankshafts to separate fresh cream from raw milk, but the 253 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: methods they used were far more likely to result in butter, 254 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: So they don't really have a g history. I think 255 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: there was attempts to make it, but they kind of 256 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: kept just making butter. What it sound like from what 257 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: it sounds like to me. And then the story in 258 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: the US has been interesting, to say the least. One 259 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: of the first mentions of g or historians think it 260 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: was that was being discussed in the US comes from 261 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: no less than Edgar Alan Poe and his one work 262 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: Mrs Found in a Bottle, which I had never heard of. 263 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: I haven't heard that one either. Yeah, that's a manuscript 264 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: U m MS found in a bottle. Yeah, I thought 265 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: it was mrs. Oh no, no, that's it MS in 266 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: this in this instance is the abbreviation for manuscript. We'll see. 267 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: I clearly had never heard of it. Um. I should 268 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: read it. I should check it out. Yeah. Um. There's 269 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: also potential mention of G in an Mark Twain letter 270 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: sent to Rudyard Kipling. Uh, and he asked for Kipling 271 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: to quote be on hand with a few bottles of G, 272 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: for I shall be thirsty. However, most attribute the first 273 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: substantial mentioned in the US to a recipe featured in 274 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: Goodies Ladies Book from eighteen sixty three. And this was 275 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: the most popular magazine during the Civil War. I know, 276 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: we've talked about it a few times, um, And a 277 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: lot of nineteenth century recipes called for clarified butter. And 278 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: then there's an eight children's story that mentioned G. It's 279 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: a story that in and tigers being dissolved into gee 280 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: and then used to make pancakes. Children's stories can be 281 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: so gnarly, I'm telling you. But it's also mentioned in 282 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifty four novel Nectar in a Sieve when 283 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: a lot of Indian immigrants arrived in the US in 284 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: the early twentieth century. He did gain a bigger foothole here. UM. 285 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: New York City's nineteen eleven edition of Grocer's Encyclopedia mentioned 286 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: g and I think that was like a usually was like, oh, 287 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: something from a different country, let's focus on it type 288 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: of publication. UM the first known restaurant serving Indian food 289 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: and New York opened in nineteen thirteen, or at least 290 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: primarily serving Indian food, opened in nineteen thirteen. UM and 291 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: really took and really took off in the US in 292 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, when the US government realized that it 293 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: had a problem. American dairy farmers were sitting on two 294 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty million pounds of surplus butter. Well, yeah, 295 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: a lot. So to keep it from going bad and 296 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: to make a profit, of course, they decided it should 297 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: be turned into gi and shipped and sold in India, 298 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: shift to India, sold in India. They even sent dairy 299 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: experts to India to sell the product. One such expert 300 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: was Louis H. Bergwald, and while he was in India, 301 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: he learned a couple of things about the taste of 302 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: the people's there. First, they varied by region very much 303 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: that milks varied based on what was prevalent and available, 304 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: and he was enthusiastic by these varied tastes. He saw 305 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: an opportunity to capitalize, but nothing really came out of 306 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: it in the end. Mm hmmm. In a New York 307 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: Times article called G Is for Good by R. K. Nadian, 308 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: he wrote, G is no doubt clarified butter, but is 309 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: also something more, in the same way that wine is 310 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: more than the juice of a squeezed grape. Ye is 311 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: like a genius born to a dull parent. It takes 312 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: the turn, isn't it. I don't think. I don't think. 313 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: Oh that is so nine. You can't say that anymore. 314 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: Uh wow, yep, you're just like, oh yeah, why why 315 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: oh okay um yeah. Indeed, However, in nineteen sixty, with 316 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: shifting health trends in the U s. G started to 317 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: be seen as unhealthy, something fatty that would clog up 318 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: your arteries. That's something we talked about a lot with sugar. Um. 319 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: Kind of this campaign around fat being bad and sugar 320 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: being fine or m hm. Another. However, worldwide worldwide interest 321 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: in GI blew up in the Western world alongside interest 322 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: in health foods and the keto diet. For example, it 323 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: was an ingredient in the trendy bulletproof coffee. In the 324 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: same year, the USD eight revised its guidelines. Time magazine 325 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: named he one of the healthiest foods of all time. 326 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: Um in the US has gone, it's gone through a 327 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: couple of reputation shifts, image shifts. Uh that I oh, 328 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: my goodness, I um yeah, it's a lot uh this. 329 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: I feel like it's been a second since we've had 330 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: a kill Joy corner. And I just I have to 331 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: say that it drives me heck and nuts when people 332 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: talk about like super foods or say that anything is 333 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: like the healthiest food because as we talk about all 334 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: the time, like like nutrition is really complicated, our bodies 335 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: are really complicated. Like there's no oh, it's yeah, yeah, 336 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: there's a lot more to it than that. You can't 337 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: just I mean, I know, I know, it's I know 338 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: it's a good click bait or whatever to to be like, 339 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: but well, and it's just so interesting to me because 340 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: there's a part of you that or at least a 341 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: part of me that wants to believe like, Okay, this 342 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: is good for me, this is bad for me whatever, 343 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: But this and like this very quick timeline that I did, 344 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: it goes from being like this is so unhealthy, don't 345 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: eat this. Two it is the healthiest thing, and like 346 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: not that long of a time, within within actually within 347 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: like my lifetime. It is something. Always take those kinds 348 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: of headlines with a grain of salt. Um, but I 349 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: do find it interesting, are interesting, and sometimes a little 350 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: frightening how quickly we can shift on health around food um, 351 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: thanks largely to the to the marketing and lobbying of 352 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: Big Sugar for example, Big Sugar for example. Yeah, but 353 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: I two silver line this one. I'm very excited to 354 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: to explore the world of key uh in more detail, 355 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: and I think that I'm going to have a lot 356 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: of lovely things come out of it. Yeah. Yeah, me too. 357 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about that package of Better that I just 358 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: bought last week that is sitting in my fridge and 359 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: going like hm hmmm mmm, options. Options. Well, I think 360 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: that's what we have to say about for now. I 361 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 1: think it is. We do have some listener mail for you, though, 362 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:35,719 Speaker 1: and we are going to get into that as soon 363 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: as we get back from one more quick break for 364 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: a word, from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsoring, Yes, 365 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: thank you, and we're back with listen Clarified. There's kind 366 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: of a sinking in was clarified, you know, settling in 367 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: with yourself. Yeah, maybe I'm thinking too deeply about this, 368 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: like like like like the milk solids settle out of 369 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: the butter. Yeah, that was kind of a calming one. Yeah. Um, 370 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: before we get into listener mail, I did want to 371 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: shout out my friend Marissa who's listened to the show. Um. 372 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: She we recently hung out and she made me tadig, 373 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: which we talked about in a listener mail after our 374 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: rice Cooker episode because it's um got the crisp rice 375 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: on the bottom. It's a Persian dish and they kind 376 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: of adapted rice cookers to be able to make it 377 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: in that region. She made it for me, uh, and 378 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 1: I hope she's not mad. I discussed this with her, 379 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: but I don't know if she realized that I was serious. 380 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: So she when she was getting the ingredients of the recipe, 381 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: she wanted one random tortilla and I couldn't figure it 382 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: out out. Um, but that's kind of her and her 383 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: family's trick of getting the crisp bottom as they put 384 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 1: a tortilla and it crisp up around the rice and 385 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: you flip it. Um. So it's like a way of 386 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: preserving I don't want to say, like cheating, but it's 387 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: like a you know, I'm going to make sure that 388 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: you get this crisp bottom. And it was delicious. I 389 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: loved it. She was telling me about everybody's strong opinions 390 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: about it, and I was just like, this is so cool. 391 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm kind of seeing something we talked about play out. 392 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: But um, it was cool. I I I because I 393 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: could not figure out, for the life of me what 394 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: that tortilla was. More, you're like one random tortilla, like 395 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: what like in this Persian But I love that. I 396 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: kind of love that. That's also something we talked about 397 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: a lot, is how do you adapt based on what's 398 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: available near you time or cooking constraints or whatever. Um, 399 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: and these sort of cultures kind of intermingling and making that. 400 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. I was just kind of endured, but 401 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,719 Speaker 1: you know, absolutely, can I can? I can I actually 402 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: tell tell my Persian race story too. Yeah. Annie, you've 403 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: heard this one, but but uh, the rest of you, 404 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: all humans probably have not so shortly after we did 405 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: that rice cooker episode, Um, I clogged my kitchen sink terribly. 406 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: Um not like on purpose, like, but but I was 407 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: I was trying to put I had like kind of 408 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: a lot of takeout rice in my fridge that had 409 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: gone off, and like I was trying to put it 410 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: down the garbage disposal, and rice, like like coffee grounds, 411 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: when it gets a little bit wet, it can just 412 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: really really non Newtonian lee lock up into an absolute blockage. 413 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: And so this had happened, and I called a plumber 414 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: and uh uh and this very nice older Iranian gentleman 415 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: comes to my house and uh and you know, and 416 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: we're and and we're chatting. He's, you know, trying to 417 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: make friends with my cat and uh and he gets 418 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: the clog out and like all of this rice comes 419 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: out and he looks at me and he's like, that's 420 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: that's a lot of rice. Do you do you eat 421 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: that much rice? Where are you from? And I was 422 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: like South Florida. I It's like, but yeah, we do 423 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: eat a lot of rice in this household. And he 424 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: like looks back at the race and looks back at me, 425 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: and he's like this isn't very good quality rice. You 426 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: need to be eating better rice. What you need to do? 427 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: And he proceeds to tell me about this Persian market 428 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,959 Speaker 1: that up in the Vinings area. He's like, you need 429 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: to go to this Persian market. They have the best 430 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: rice there, um. And I was like, I was like, 431 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: thank you, I've I've heard, I've heard about this, this dish, 432 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: the tadig with the with the crisp on the bottom. 433 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: And his face just lights up and he's like, how 434 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: do you know about that? And I'm like, I'm not 435 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: going to explain a podcast to you right now, sir, 436 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: but I but yeah, I read about it and it 437 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: sounds really good and it was just the one. It's 438 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: a wonderful moment between these, you know, two humans who 439 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: otherwise might not have hung out. And I I love that. 440 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's so sweet, and I should mention 441 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: like my friend Marissa, who has family, she has history 442 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: from she has family from iran Um. She also did 443 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: this because I was going to get hurt the ingredients 444 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: and she was making it. Um. She said, I'm getting 445 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: the rice because I'm very particular fair no aces so good, 446 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: so I know, Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, it was. 447 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: It was so delicious. Thank you for Rissa. Oh yes, 448 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: thank you, Yes you did good to have it. But yes, 449 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean thank you thank you for for 450 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: providing the opportunity for the story. Yeah, because those I 451 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: love that, I really do. Um, all right to the listener, man, Okay, 452 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: I also love this, um, Melissa wrote, good morning, I 453 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: just listened to the sentimental Lintel episode and my heart 454 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,959 Speaker 1: is bursting with pride. I am Andrew's mom, Melissa, the 455 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: purveyor of obviously sentimental holiday treats, including the now infamous 456 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: Ranch Oyster crackers. So we read Andrew's recipe and story 457 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: about these crackers in that episode. Anyway, all right, um, 458 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: Melissa continues, he is correct that I make these every 459 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: year around the holidays, but also when we have large 460 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: get togethers, including Andrew's wedding weekend, we had a huge 461 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: rash of these and other savory treats in large stars 462 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: out by the pool for all the guests to enjoy. 463 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: I love that something as simple as this has made 464 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: such a big impact on my family and helped to 465 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: win over our very sweet daughter in law. Here's the 466 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: recipe if you feel inclined whis together three tablespoon's ranch 467 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: dressing mix, one packet, one teaspoon lemon pepper, one half 468 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: to one teaspoon garlic salt or one fourth teaspoon of 469 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: the powder, one to two teaspoons dry dill, one cup 470 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: canola toss with three bags oyster crackers about sixty announces 471 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: each until most of the oil is absorbed. You can 472 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: bake on baking sheets at two fifty for fifteen to 473 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: twenty minutes until golden. If you like them extra crispy, 474 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: but I skip this step, you can also sobstitute some 475 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: of the crackers for goldfish crackers if you want to 476 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: make it a little more fun. Enjoy many blessings from Indiana. 477 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: If you ever want to do a podcast about sugar 478 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: cream pie, I am your girl. Another one of Andrew's favorites. 479 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: Oh oh, thank you for the rest of Thank you, 480 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. I want to try it so badly, 481 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: um and I do I mean this again? Is I 482 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: love this? I love that it's kind of this simple thing, 483 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: but people bonded over it, people look forward to it, 484 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: and it's bought all of it, balled, all of us together. 485 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: Oh and sugar cream pie I is is on the list. Um, yes, 486 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: I don't know that I know what that is, but 487 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: that's the fun of it. Or that's the fun of it. 488 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: Oh heck um. Christine wrote, I very recently found your podcast, 489 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: and I think it's going to be great binge listening. 490 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: Seeing as you are proudly nerdy enough to talk about 491 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: dungeons and dragons, You'll probably know what I mean when 492 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: I say I'm in the Society for Creative Anachronism. I 493 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: am greatly interested in the foods and cooking of medieval 494 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: Europe and in food history in general. I'm also trying 495 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: to finish a History Honors thesis on the culinary and 496 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: social history of puddings in medieval and early modern England. 497 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: More on this later this morning, I listened to the 498 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: episode on montels. I don't like mushy lentils, which may 499 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: be an autism thing, or it may be because this 500 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: is one of the many foods destroyed by my nineteen 501 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: eighties Australian cookery. However, I do love French style TWI lentils. 502 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: You don't find many recipes for lentils in medieval Europe, 503 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: probably because of their association with peasant food to Renaissance Italians. U. 504 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: I'm not going to say their names. Both considered lentils 505 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: utterly disgusting and not fit for human consumption, and one 506 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: of them was the closest thing you'll find too a 507 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: vegetarian at the time. However, there's a recipe I adapted 508 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: from sixteenth century Germany that's been well received, where the 509 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: lentils are cooked in a spiced broth with finely minced onions, wine, vinegar, sugar, 510 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: and raisins. The spices, sugar, and raisins would have made 511 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: this far too costly to be considered peasant food. This 512 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: dish probably evolved from a class of mean joke dishes 513 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: where typical peasant food was dressed up with extremely expensive 514 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: ingredients to show the gulf between rich and poor. Let's 515 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: just say rush limbaugh would have fitted right into the 516 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: medieval sense of humor. And this brings us to English puddings. 517 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: I firmly believe pudding derives from the Germanic of Ya, 518 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: the Anglo Saxons, rather than from the French. After the 519 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: Norman conquest, Anglo Saxon English became the language of the 520 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: subjugated peasant class. Anything associated with peasants like farming and 521 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: livestock retained the Anglo Saxon word, whilst most culinary terms 522 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: became French. Puddings were firmly associated with poor people, particularly 523 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: in urban areas, up to the fifteenth century. And we're 524 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: typically made of awful uh, the bits of the animal 525 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: you only eat if you're desperate. But in the fifteenth 526 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 1: century you start to find recipes for puddings, typically filled 527 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: with sugar, spices, dried fruits, almonds and rice, all the 528 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: things poor people couldn't afford. There's even one recipe collection 529 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: that contains a recipe called garbage, which is all the 530 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: entrails of a chicken cooked in a sweet, spiced broth. However, 531 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: by the sixteenth century puddings had become gourmet. No doubt 532 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: Henry the Eighth had something to do with this. The 533 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: man loved his food, and he clearly loved his puddings. 534 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: His personal pantry regularly made payments to a woman to 535 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 1: make him puddings, and she was given a pension when 536 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: he died. He also gave costly gifts to visitors and 537 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 1: courtiers who presented him with puddings. Uh. Presumably Henry's puddings 538 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: contained only the best ingredients, though in the sixteenth century 539 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 1: awful became very fashionable and expensive. I do wonder if 540 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: the tutor equivalent of Marco Pierre White declared that being 541 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: able to prepare awful well was the mark of a 542 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: great cook. But even while puddings were the height of 543 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: culinary fashion, the humble origins of puddings stuck around in reminders. Uh. 544 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: Pudding was a common insult of Shakespeare's Um. It's still 545 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: a derogatory term used for overweight people, and a putting 546 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 1: head occasionally crops up to describe someone stupid. Uh. Putting Lane, 547 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: where the Great Fire of London started, got its name 548 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: because it was the root the market laborers took to 549 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,280 Speaker 1: dump all the unsold meat and animal bits that hadn't 550 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: sold into the Thames um. This material was called pudding, 551 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: one of the many reasons no one drawing from the 552 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 1: river if they could help it. By the eighteenth century, 553 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: pudding had taken on its typical British meaning, today another 554 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: word for dessert, but associated more with every day or 555 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: family meals rather than something served to impress. In cookbooks 556 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 1: from this period, you'll tend to find chapters for puddings 557 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: which are sweet but easy to make, um with more technical, 558 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: showy sugar recipes in a different desserts chapter. This division 559 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,280 Speaker 1: coincided with sugar becoming cheaper because of slave plantations. Sugar 560 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: dishes requiring long or complex preparation got the fancy title 561 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: of dessert, while easier dishes got called puddings. Savory puddings 562 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: such as Yorkshire pudding probably got their name through association 563 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: with a suet or dripping uh. The earliest version of 564 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,280 Speaker 1: Yorkshire pudding was actually a batter poured into the bottom 565 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: of roasting trade to collect the meat juices, while there 566 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: are other regionals savory puddings which are made with suett. 567 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: I have no idea how pudding became associated with a 568 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: sweet semi st starch custard. In the United States, however, 569 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: there is a very popular English dish first mentioned in 570 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: the thirteenth century and is probably earlier um called m 571 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: m aduan and a M I d O U n 572 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,280 Speaker 1: no idea how to pronounce that um, where wheat starch 573 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: is combined with sweetened almond milk and gradually thickened. And 574 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: this was still reasonably popular when Alfred Bird made it 575 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: commercially available in the nineteenth century as custard. Custard is 576 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: also a medieval dish, though it combines egg yolks with 577 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: cream and is usually baked, often in a pie crust. Well, 578 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: that's enough rambling for me for now. I will no 579 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: doubt send further emails as I work through your back catalog. 580 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: You are free to ignore them if necessary. Never we 581 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: look forward to them. Oh, yeah, that is so delightful. 582 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: I love that you have an academic pudding specialty. I 583 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: do too. This is amazing the detail, the context, all 584 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: the history and all of it about putting. It's really 585 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:16,959 Speaker 1: like genuinely thish. This is so cool. Yeah, and see 586 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: and see this is the kind of stuff like like 587 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,760 Speaker 1: like we were talking about, like you said earlier, Annie, 588 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: like like we we are not experts. We do not 589 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,280 Speaker 1: pretend to be experts. Some of y'all out there are 590 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: and that is awesome. We are just we are just 591 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: fans of food and of information about it, and so 592 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: you know, we're just yes, yes, I mean, any any 593 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,720 Speaker 1: time any of y'all who are experts takes the time 594 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: to share this with us, so cool, it is so appreciated. 595 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 1: And yes, we like legitimately nerd out about it. So 596 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, and that's fascinating. We pudding is 597 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: going to be a very interesting episode, but keep this 598 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: in mind. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Thanks to both of 599 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 1: those listeners for writing in. If you would like to 600 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 1: write to us, that you can. Our email is hello 601 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: at saborpod dot com. We're also on social media. You 602 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver 603 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: pod and we do hope to hear from you. Saver 604 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,800 Speaker 1: is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts in 605 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, you can visit the I Heart Radio app, 606 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 607 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and 608 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope 609 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: that lots more good things are coming your way.