WEBVTT - Eat with Friends with Angela Trakas 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.160 Oh, my mouth is salivating as I'm thinking about this. 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:09.640 So I have this beautiful, pink, shallow bowl of green 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:13.960 dandelions and they've been cooked just in a little bit 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:18.000 of salted water, and I've prepared them with lemon juice, 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:22.919 olive oil, and just a sprinkle of salt. This is 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:29.080 my friend Angela Trachis. She's also my roommate. We live 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:33.120 together in the far western outpost of San Francisco, in 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:37.280 a chilly neighborhood full of surfers that borders the Pacific 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:42.000 Ocean and Golden Gate Park, where sometimes the sound of 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:46.000 fog horns wakes you up in the morning, where sometimes 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:48.559 if you go out at night at high tide, you 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:53.640 can smell the salt and seaweed. Since we lived together, 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:57.280 I got to sit in our little breakfast nook next 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.920 to the kitchen that's all painted Robin's Egg blue and 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:06.520 watch Angela prepare the snack for this episode. Yeah, she 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.959 was barefoot like always, and I and my slippers on 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:16.120 like always, and we were laughing also like always, because 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:21.240 she and I are both into big joy. She walked 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:28.080 me through the art of preparing the dandelion because I'm 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.560 a Greek girl, I had to add a million things 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:35.679 so we could really enjoy, you know, eating the dandelions. 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.360 You know, a Greek table is never gonna have just 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:42.000 one thing. It's just not allowed. So I have some 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:47.160 kalamata olives that I sprinkled some Greek oregano on, and 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:51.680 then we have this gorgeous olive loaf that definitely feels 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:55.680 freshly baked. It's soft, it's chewy, there's a nice crust 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.560 to it, and that is going to be the vehicle 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:03.000 for sopping up our beautiful um dandelion broth with olive 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.880 oil and lemon juice. M I'm just gonna mirror everything 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.079 that you do. So what are we doing first? Okay, 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:12.880 we're gonna just swirl around our green. So you know, 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:18.480 all of these beautiful liquids are coming together, and because 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:22.519 of these red stalks, like the broth is is this 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.160 gorgeous like fusia. And I mean I didn't plan this, 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.600 I mean I really didn't, but we have these pink bowls, 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:32.239 the fusia liquid and these greens. I mean, it's really 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.720 kind of impressive that a humble weed can become something 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:40.280 so beautiful. Yes, okay, are we putting it in our mouth. 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.160 Now take a bite. I'm doing it too. Okay. M 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:53.400 oh my god, wow m and mhm boom boom oom. 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.680 I just got a little bit of that salt. Yeah, okay. 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:01.000 So the first overwhelming taste is the bitterness of the greens. 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:05.200 I mean what I'm getting is I mean, it's kind 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:10.080 of like the It's like the greens equivalent of gaminess. 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:14.600 Do you know what I'm talking about? I do. I do. 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.400 And I think that's why, you know, as someone who 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.880 is a child of Greek immigrants, both sides of my 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:25.640 family are farming families, and you know, being close to 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.040 the earth is something that is just part of who 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.919 we were. You know, it's not who we are now, 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.680 but it's still like, I think, eating something that's wild 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:40.400 like connects us to that. Yes, I'm just in love 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:47.360 the humble weed. The humble weed. Angela and I have 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:52.880 traveled the world together in search of delicious food from 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:57.080 the knockoff markets of la with the most insane hot dogs. 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.760 Anything you could possibly want on a bacon dog, I mean, 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:04.040 available to the buffets of ship Showanna, Indiana ended up 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.880 at the Amish Easter Feast. We waited three hours in 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:13.400 line to have this Easter buffet. Oh to the villages 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:19.240 of Greece. There's this really great bakery in Athens, who 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:21.640 you know, makes one of the best sudekis, and they've 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.920 introduced the chocolate covered tudeki. And you know, sometimes I'm 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:26.880 a purist, I don't think we need the chocolate, but 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:32.320 in this case, we loved the chocolate sudeki. Part of 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.920 what makes something a comfort food is who you eat 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:40.720 it with. Food is a love language for me and Angela. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.600 A couple of years ago, we decided we wanted to 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.560 go on a road trip together and we made it 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:53.880 all about a truly iconic American dessert item, pie. We 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:58.120 dubbed the trip I Only Have Pies for you. We 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:02.720 ate pie all the way from Philly to Chicago, through 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:06.600 over eight hundred miles of US highways in the rain 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:11.560 and shine. We ate apple pie, cherry pie, chocolate cream pie, 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:16.680 key lime pie, and something called shoefly pie, a molasses 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.680 pie which is sort of like pecan pie without the nuts. 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:24.920 And we stopped along the way to enjoy lakes, forests, 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:30.039 hot tubs, and of course the Church of Chocolate Hershey World. 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:36.040 We have so much appreciation for food in part because 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.599 we each have a mom with hunger in her past. 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.800 Angela's mom lived through German occupation during the Second World War. 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.920 My mom had a full blown eating disorder. I can't 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.200 prove it, but I one hundred percent believe that the 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:56.159 memory of hunger gets passed on somehow, and that when 0:05:56.160 --> 0:06:01.159 we eat unapologetically, we feed our spirits, which helps heal 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:07.160 our families and our bloodlines. While we were eating greens 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:11.279 in our kitchen, Angela told me why dandelions are so 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.600 special for her family. I would probably if I think 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.920 back to, you know, my childhood days where I just 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:24.280 wanted to be like every other kid um in my school. Um, 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.599 I probably balked at something like dandelions. You know, it 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:32.080 was definitely like oh, jortha again, jortha is the Greek word. Um. 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:34.280 It was not the thing, you know. We want to 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.080 eat pizza, we want to eat hamburgers. We wanted to 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.360 eat little debbies right like everyone else. Little debbies. Yes, 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.520 But as I grew older, I really started to appreciate 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.000 the dandelions. As the girlder, I paid attention to how 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.520 important they were to my mother. Um. I mean, it's 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:52.480 it's the thing that she always goes to. I mean 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:57.640 it's her comfort food. And my mother, my aunts, Um, 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.680 you know, our extended family the Chicagoland area. When we 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:07.720 couldn't find dandelions, we would go hunting for them, and 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:10.000 you know, you had to leave, you had to leave, 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.320 you know, the city or the suburbs a little bit 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:15.640 because because they do grow wild, right, and so you know, 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:19.360 you want to avoid the dog pee and pesticides and 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.120 other things like that. So I could probably put money 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:27.360 on this, but every Greek household probably has a pairing 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:32.400 knife or some kind of sharp tool in the trunk 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:37.480 of their car. And you know, the mother, my mother, 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:41.080 every mother, every Greek mother has like dandelion radar, and 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:43.760 they we could be on the highway and like, you know, 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.960 pull over because I see a patch of dandelions, and 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.760 those dandelions look like no one's been around them, no 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.240 stray dogs are near them. You know, it looks like 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:56.600 a good bet for a nice little dandelion harvest. Yes, 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:01.320 I'm curious about when it comes to food, what was 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:08.520 it like growing up in a Greek household. Um, there's 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:13.360 just so much that happens around the Greek table. And 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.240 one of the things that I love most about it, 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:20.440 even from a young age, is that my parents always 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:24.320 encouraged my sister and I to you know, be an 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.840 active participant in the conversation. And that meant that we 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.600 could say and think whatever we wanted to, and you know, 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:37.600 like they encourage that like philosophical kind of questioning, you know, 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.040 what does this mean and why and all of that, 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:42.800 and you know that often leads to debate, and that 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:48.360 often leads to you know, intense conversations. But there's also 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:52.360 this like beautiful connection to a country that seems very 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:56.240 far away, and and often that's like a very bittersweet 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:00.520 kind of thing to to witness as a child whose 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:09.080 parents who who but whose parents really like you know, 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.120 I could see that one foot was in one country 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:17.240 and one foot was in the other, and neither of 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:21.360 them was stable, you know, right. I think back to 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.720 the dandelion and why it's so important, and I think about, 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.520 you know, the circumstances that my parents grew up in. 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.720 My dad was born in nineteen thirty nine and my 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.880 mom was born in nineteen forty five. This was the 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:40.600 height of access occupation in Greece. My father's family home 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:46.199 was occupied by soldiers there was scarcity. I mean there 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.199 was there were so many people that died because there 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:54.800 wasn't enough food. And also, you know, after the occupation ended, 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.400 in World War two ended, there was a civil war 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:00.400 in Greece because of kind of the fact actions that 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:05.040 built up as a result of the occupation. And so 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:10.400 you know, this is this is the most traumatic experience 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.960 that that you know, my parents were born into. But 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:17.560 then you know that I inherited, right, And I think 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:21.400 I think of the scarcity um that comes with that, 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.160 and the pain and the suffering um. And I think 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.360 of you know, why something like dandelions, why something like 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:34.600 a weed is so important? You know, because when you 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:38.640 have nothing and you can offer someone food, you know, 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:44.720 that is love, right um. And you know they were 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:49.920 so proud of where they came from. UM. I think 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:57.079 the reason that dandelions are so special is or just 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.520 like food, you know, Greek food is something that is 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:05.720 so meaningful for me, is because it was really like 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.680 it's not a stretch to say, the only or best 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.200 way that my mother could show her love, you know, Oh, 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:16.080 like I can feel that. I mean I grew up 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:21.120 with you as you know, sort of like a lot 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:29.000 of love, but not a lot of safety. But one 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:32.920 of the ways that my grandmother, who raised me as 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.720 someone who was deeply traumatized by her own childhood and 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:40.200 the loss of her mother, food and cooking and the 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:46.240 kitchen were a place that she clearly felt power and 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.679 she could consistently show up in that space, even when 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.360 she couldn't consistently show up emotionally for us or for 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:58.080 me otherwise. And I think I also relate to And 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.720 I don't know if this is something that you feel 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.439 connected to, but this sort of way in which food 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:11.880 becomes how our parents teach us about gets like the 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:16.600 education in our own identity, that that non American identity 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.959 that gets translated through food in a sort of obviously 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:26.400 like non linguistic way. And but there's so much in it, right, 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:30.560 Like I just think, like I'm thinking literally of you know, 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:34.120 you didn't grow up in Greece, but when I think 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:38.560 of how you cook, um, I always am reminded of 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:43.160 the Mediterranean son and the landscape. And I mean, having 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.560 been to the village where your mom grew up, having 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.720 visited with you, Um, just sort of like how those 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.880 things are, you know, they're sort of their own special 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.720 kind of storytelling age. I mean, and I think there's 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.720 something so metaphorical about it right where it's like, you know, 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.920 this this weed, which is it's sort of it's it's resilient, 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.640 right like it's like it grows everywhere, and it's not 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:12.200 it's not a high maintenance plant, and yet it is edible, 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.960 and yet it is delicious, and yet it is complex. 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.640 And I think there's something I don't know like that, 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:23.000 that simplicity and that availability and that resiliency I think 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:29.160 tells a story about you know, your family. Yeah, I mean, 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.280 resiliency is absolutely you know the word that stands out 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.040 for me too. You know, we were joking about how 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.880 many times I had to rinse the dandelion leaves. But 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.400 as I was rinsing them, I really like, you know 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:44.000 what came to mind. We're just like images of all 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:48.760 of my aunts and you know, these women that work 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:53.559 the fields and we're so industrious and you know, took 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.120 care of land and their kids. And I just saw 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:00.520 all of their faces that was cleaning these and you know, 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:07.800 like their strength comes through Even now. I want to 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.360 go back to what Angelo was saying about how dandelions 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:16.480 helped people survive a war in Greece. I wondered, how 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:21.240 does war affect food? What's the social history of hunger? 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.640 A twenty eighteen report by the UN's World Food Program 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:31.480 pointed out that there's an unequivocal link between conflict and hunger. 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:38.240 In twenty sixteen, of people suffering from chronic malnutrition, sixty 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:42.160 percent of them lived in areas affected by armed conflict. 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.320 In fact, damage to local food systems can have a 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:50.920 bigger impact on the people who live there than guns, bombs, 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:56.200 or rifles. In war, farms can be destroyed. That means 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.680 the land and the animals on it are taken out 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.680 of the food system. Farmers can be forced to abandon 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.360 their land, which means no one is growing whatever they 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:12.840 were before. This means there's less supply. Less supply means 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:17.160 higher costs. Higher costs mean more people can't afford to 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:21.800 buy food for their families. In war, markets and grocery 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:26.520 stores that stock food can be accidentally or intentionally destroyed. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.520 Though it's considered a war crime now, military forces can 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:35.960 block outside food aid, literally preventing people from getting food. 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.520 Pregnant women who are exposed to more conflicts often have 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:45.040 babies with low birth weight. It's harder to survive infancy 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.760 if you're a low birthweight baby, and there can be 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.760 long term health and developmental impacts. Could it be that 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:58.680 some of these war babies remember being hungry. Resiliency is 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.920 more than our will to survive. It's our ability to 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:08.240 create and grow. We've talked a lot about resiliency this season. 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:13.720 It's exemplified in Deshawn's velvety yet grainy Reese's peanut butter cups, 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.000 in the potato chips that Janet enjoys, and the finger 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.120 licking that Jennifer practices in the face of a culture 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:25.480 that vilifies it, in the cup of noodles that Francis 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:31.920 has reclaimed, and in joe Anne's span. Food tells all 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:36.560 these stories, it's a marker of place, space, and time 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:44.160 of relationships as well as loss, celebration and mourning, war 0:16:45.200 --> 0:17:18.040 and peace. We'll be right back. Angela and I are 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:22.160 two fat women united in our pursuit of yummy snacks 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.080 and in our culture. That's kind of a big deal. 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.600 We met back in twenty fourteen at a retreat for 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:35.880 fat women called Abundia. It's a conference for and buy 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:40.080 fat women who want to live fully joyfully and abundantly. 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:46.399 At a Bundia. There were workshops on love and desirability, disability, 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:50.119 and aging, but the real magic was just all of 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:54.159 us hanging out with each other. It feels so good 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:59.160 to laugh, relax and eat with other fat women away 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:04.560 from the eyes of a culture that dismisses us as broken, pathetic, lonely, 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:09.359 or sick. Angela and I were conference roommates and we 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:15.359 became instant friends. Angela was new to fat positivity, but 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.399 you never would have known it because she already seemed 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:22.679 like a pro at being a proud fat babe. We 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.320 would stay up until two or three in the morning 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:30.399 talking about art and philosophy, travel and fashion hopes and 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:36.040 histories and how much we hated dating. My friendships with 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:40.200 other fat women like Angela are sacred to me. There's 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:44.280 so much shared experience right there under the surface that 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.679 we don't really have to say out loud, like a 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:51.120 silent footnote that reads I know a lot of what 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.040 you've been through and you are more beautiful to me 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.119 because of it. When I meet a new fat friend, 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.760 it's like when a single string of notes becomes a harmony. 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.879 I love how our bellies touched when we hug. I 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.480 love how our laugh is often rounder and lower, and 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:16.520 I love eating with that friends. One of our top 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:21.440 food experiences, this one is someone you know, some might 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:25.520 say humble, but so important to our friendship. And it 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:31.320 is Grocery Outlet aka gross Out affectionately known as but 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.199 So for those who don't know, Angela, like, if an 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.760 alien visited the Earth and you had to describe grocery outlet, 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:43.040 what would you tell our alien friend? Oh, it's just 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:49.199 a treasure hunt. So it's a grocery store that for 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:55.600 whatever reason, has pulled in items. They could be considered gourmet, 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.440 they could be considered artisan, they could be considered special, 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:05.440 and they're usually really expensive at a regular grocery store 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:07.800 like a Whole Foods. So these are the kinds of 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:12.480 things that you know, we would cove it, but can 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.040 sometimes we ought of reach find, you know, economy. Yeah, 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:18.440 I literally called the Ross for food. Any consistent Ross 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.439 shopper knows you. You know, you go there for some 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.439 of the staples, but you really are holding out for 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.199 that thing that got weirdly rejected or returned and it 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.800 was from Nordstrums and you're like, how did it get here, 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:35.800 it's normally seventy four dollars, but here it's six. And 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.040 it's like, that feeling is what you're holding out for 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:42.320 a grocery outlet, right right, I feel like grocery outlet 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:47.439 ties into our identities so deeply. We're both children of immigrants. 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:51.400 We are both women who have epigenetically inherited the ecstasy 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:55.639 of a bargain from our mothers. We are both people 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.359 who enjoy the finer things in life and believe that 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.959 perhaps maybe they are made better by getting them on sale. 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.480 And I think also, I think it also connects to 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:09.200 our identity as fat women. UM. And so I'm like, 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:13.080 I want you to unpack this. Where do we start? 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:17.959 Everything that you said resonates with me. Um. You know, 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:22.480 the quality is something that that will never be sacrificed, um. 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:28.800 But money is something that was never um in abundance. Right. 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:31.280 So it's like, well, how do you get the best 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:36.480 thing for the least amount of resources? And I think 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:40.400 there's something beautiful about your knowing that you deserve the 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:44.600 best thing. And as we see, how like you know, 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.640 in in modern culture, like all the beautiful things tend 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:50.840 to be reserved for people with the most resources, and 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.199 I just think that is just unjust, you know, like 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.199 everyone deserves something delicious um And I think as an 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.560 immigrant kid, that's just like a lesson that you learn 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:08.240 kind of intrinsically. In diet culture, women are taught to 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:15.000 bond over diets, hating our bodies and calorie counting. Creating 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:19.679 friendships that celebrate food feels like repairing the years and 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:23.320 years of being told I wasn't allowed to enjoy eating 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:27.920 because of my body size. Eating with Angela is as 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:32.359 therapeutic to me as an actual mental health appointment, because 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:36.960 we are doing the repair work. Like. There's a word 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:41.639 for this that I love. It's called praxis. It's when 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:47.040 an idea, like food positivity or fat positivity meets the 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:52.600 real world and becomes an embodied action. Eating with Angela 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:56.040 is that when the rubber meets the road, when an 0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:59.439 idea moves from our minds into our bodies and the 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:04.119 ripple of fact begins. When we fill our tummies. We 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:07.520 aren't just doing it for us. We're doing it for 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:11.480 our moms and grandmas. We're doing it for other fat people. 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:15.119 We're doing it so that all of us can feel 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:23.560 a little more free. There are two really important hot 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:28.560 dog stories in our life, Virgie, I'm ready. A more 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:33.639 recent one is with San Francisco's Sticks Cafe, which is 0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:39.760 their version of a Korean hot dog, which is it's 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:42.960 this really savory hot dog with a big hunk of 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:47.080 mazzarella cheese dipped into this mochi batter which is like 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:49.720 a rice flower, so it becomes very gelatinous, and then 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:54.520 it's like breaded with panko and deep fried and you 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:58.760 eat it with with sabi mayonnaise or spicy mayonnaise, and 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:05.359 it's just like the most playful, indulgent, decadent, fun delicious 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:08.040 thing on a stick that you might ever eat if 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:13.960 it wasn't for the bacon wrapped hot dog of Santie 0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:17.280 Alley Alle. I was like wondering if you're gonna remember that. 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:21.920 I was wondering in my memory it is all caps insane, 0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:27.359 fully loaded hot dog. Um. So we ended up at 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:32.680 the knockoff sunglasses mecca of the world, Santie Alley, essentially 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:35.800 like it's on the street, they're cooking it. The fragrance 0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:40.520 of the tot dogs. They're wrapped in bacon and there's 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:44.359 grilled onions. I mean the aroma is so distinct and 0:24:44.440 --> 0:24:48.520 so intoxicating, and it literally seduced us in and we 0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:50.680 were just like, yep, fully loaded everything. I don't even 0:24:50.720 --> 0:24:52.800 know what was on there, Like it was like, manis 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:56.520 nanto cheese onions? I don't even know how. Yeah, everything 0:24:56.600 --> 0:24:59.040 anything you could possibly want on a bacon dog. I 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:01.920 mean it was available, yes, And then we just sat 0:25:02.000 --> 0:25:07.520 there and we wore those amazing sunglasses that look like 0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:14.200 lips that are open, and we ate our santi Alli dogs. Yeah. 0:25:14.240 --> 0:25:16.119 And I think we haven't already talked about this, but 0:25:16.160 --> 0:25:20.600 like eating while fat in public is not easy to do, 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:23.680 and you really have to lean into your enjoyment of 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:27.400 it to really kind of like, you know, not give 0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:30.800 a shit what people are doing or saying and you 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:34.719 know around you. So, yeah, you've got to lean into 0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:38.360 the idea that I mean, first of all, when you're fat, 0:25:38.840 --> 0:25:42.000 you're you know, according to the culture, you're already always 0:25:42.080 --> 0:25:46.000 theater for people. And then when you're eating while fat, 0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:48.159 it's like you've really just got to like there's no 0:25:48.240 --> 0:25:50.199 point in not leaning it. I mean, it's going to 0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:53.199 be theatrical whether you want it to be or not. 0:25:53.480 --> 0:25:55.719 So it's like it doesn't make any sense to just 0:25:55.800 --> 0:25:59.000 not go, you know, like lean all the way into 0:25:59.040 --> 0:26:02.840 the experience because like people are already having the thoughts 0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:06.399 like to then not moan and scream and laugh with joy. 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:08.879 It just makes so sad. It's just like you're just 0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:11.760 it's just self sacrificial for no purpose, you know what 0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:18.800 I mean? Agree, Okay, when you're fat, eating in public 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:24.000 is kind of a revolutionary act. We're breaking all the 0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:29.000 fat lady rules. Those rules say don't eat just don't, 0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:33.840 but for sure don't eat in public, and certainly don't 0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:37.040 eat in public with other fat people and triple dog 0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:41.000 all caps definitely don't hang out with other fat people 0:26:41.000 --> 0:26:44.520 in public, and eat anything that isn't steamed vegetables and 0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:49.600 cardinal sin. Never be caught enjoying food when you're fat. 0:26:50.880 --> 0:26:54.680 The rules are often silent stuff we learned as kids 0:26:54.880 --> 0:26:59.320 or on TV, but sometimes they really are one hundred 0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:03.080 percent clear, Like when someone yells weight loss advice out 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:07.159 of a moving vehicle when you're walking home. Yes, true story. 0:27:08.240 --> 0:27:12.560 I don't get to consent to this experience. It happens 0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:17.400 whether I wanted to or not. I love trolling these 0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:22.800 stupid rules by playing into the stereotype. Extra hard, marginalized 0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:26.120 people do stuff like this all the time. We take 0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:29.159 back a little bit of power, a little bit of 0:27:29.200 --> 0:27:33.119 dignity by saying I see your rules, and I raise 0:27:33.240 --> 0:27:37.679 you an act of absurdity. I will become the most 0:27:38.080 --> 0:27:43.040 ridiculous version of your expectation and expose you and your 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:48.439 bigotry through that act. I take back the power. And 0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:52.639 Angela is often my collaborator in this project because she 0:27:52.840 --> 0:27:56.680 has also been on the receiving end of fat phobia. 0:27:57.040 --> 0:27:59.920 I mean, like I remember, and this could be triggering, 0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:02.960 but I remember when I was in high school and 0:28:03.440 --> 0:28:05.920 they're all these diets going around, like the cabbage suit 0:28:06.000 --> 0:28:08.520 diet and the like turkey and egg or turkey and 0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:11.080 tomato diet and this and that, and like, I mean 0:28:11.080 --> 0:28:13.399 people were cruel. People would like mail these things to 0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:18.440 our house anonymously. I mean, like theephobia is legit people, right, 0:28:19.520 --> 0:28:21.680 And so there was this cabbage suit diet, which essentially 0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:24.280 was like you just like it's like cabbage and some 0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:27.040 vegetables and you just eat that all all the time. 0:28:27.359 --> 0:28:30.679 And I'm like, this is like rationing form like a 0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:33.120 war torn country, right, this is what people eat when 0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:35.800