1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, is size as dramatic as they make it 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: out to be in the movies? You mean, like we 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: all wear white lab coats and go ah ha while 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: making discoveries in the shower. I don't want to know 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: if you wear a lab coat in the shower. But 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 1: isn't that dramatic? No, it's not usually so exciting. I mean, 7 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: you don't storm into a room with a piece of 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: definitive evidence on a piece of paper and claim some 9 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: amazing discovery all the time. I'm waiting for the day 10 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: I have a chance to do that, But so far 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: nothing really that doesn't happen in particle physics, not usually. 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: But there was this one time in which you wore 13 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: a lap coat in the shower, or in which he 14 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: had definitive evidence. I'm not going to answer that question. 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: I am poor handy cartoonists and the creator of PhD comments. Hi, 16 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I love storming 17 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: into rooms with definitive evidence. How often do you get 18 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: to do it, Daniel? Never? Almost never. I'm desperate for 19 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: an opportunity. How do you know you love it if 20 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: you've never done it? I dream about it? How was 21 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: that you stimulated in your head. It's funny when I 22 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: talked to young students who are interested in particle physics 23 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: and they read about big discoveries and amazing revelations about 24 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: the universe, and then I tell them that, you know, 25 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 1: we don't make discoveries every day. It's not like that 26 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: on a day to day basis. Unfortunately, really, you throw 27 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: cold water into their optimism and enthusiasm. I do. I 28 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: don't want to mislead them. And then I show them 29 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: all the fun puzzles that we do get to solve 30 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: on a day to day basis, which is more like 31 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: why is my code not working? And less like what 32 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: is universe made at of? And then they walk out 33 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: of your office? Or are they hooked by the small puzzle? 34 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: You get some of both, You get some of both. 35 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, 36 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio in which we try 37 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: to hook you on the puzzles of the universe, the 38 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: big questions about how the universe was made, how it 39 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: all fits together, why it works at all, and whether 40 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: we can understand it. Yeah, because science is a process, 41 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: it's real people asking questions about the universe and trying 42 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: to figure out how to answer those questions because it's 43 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: not always clear. That's right. It's people pushing forward individually 44 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: with their curiosity on the boundary of knowledge, trying to 45 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: figure out is this the way things work? Is that 46 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: the way things work? Does this particle exist? How about 47 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: that other weird particle? And sometimes there are dramatic days 48 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: of discovery, though those are few and far between. Usually 49 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: it's more subdued. You would say, you know more about 50 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: you know, slow discoveries or slow consensus of discovery, slow discoveries. 51 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: You know, these days the particles were discovering take more 52 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 1: information to find them. You don't have like a single 53 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: picture of an event where you say, oh, look at 54 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 1: this new weird particle that nobody's ever seen before. It's 55 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: more statistical. But back in the early days of particle physics, 56 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,959 Speaker 1: you really could. You could like have a cloud chamber 57 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: and you could see a particle decay in a new 58 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: way that nobody's ever seen before. So you could have 59 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: this like single event discovery. But those days are behind us. 60 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: Do you think those people would also describe it as 61 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 1: exciting and dramatic or maybe I wonder if it was 62 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: still a slock for them, you know, like it was. 63 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: It was incremental and slow for them. I think there 64 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: were a lot of boring days in between the dramatic 65 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: days of discovery, but those individual days must have been 66 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: pretty exciting. I think about the way archaeologists like dig 67 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: for human bones, and sometimes you hear about like a 68 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: twenty five year career that finally they found a jaw bone, 69 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, like, why do they keep digging after 70 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: twenty two or twenty three years. That takes a lot 71 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: of determination. They were waiting for so much to throw 72 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: them a bone to their career, and then it happens 73 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: and does happen. And that's why I think these stories 74 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: of discovery are useful because they help inspire the next 75 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: generation of scientists to remember that we don't make discoveries 76 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,119 Speaker 1: unless somebody keeps pushing forward. At least it helps get 77 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: them into your office, at which point you discourage them 78 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: and tell them the real truth about research. I tell 79 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: them the real truth to encourage them, because there's lots 80 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 1: of different ways to do science. Some people like to 81 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: do science by writing programs. Some people like to do 82 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: science by tweaking lasers in the basement. There's lots of 83 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: different ways to do science, and the most important thing 84 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: is to find the way that you find fun. Well, 85 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 1: it is fun to discover new things. And so today 86 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about a very specific discovery that 87 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: was done in particle physics and Daniel, this is a 88 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 1: bit of a sticky story. It is a bit of 89 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: a sticky story, and it's part of a series of 90 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: episodes we've had on how we understand the standard model. 91 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: We know that everything is made out of particles, but 92 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: how do we know that those particles exist? Are they 93 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: just theoretical ideas? What experiments did we do to really 94 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: reveal them? And for me this is really fun because 95 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: minds people that all these concepts about how the universe 96 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: works came out of individual experiments, things people saw, weird 97 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: stuff that happened when we smashed stuff together that reveal 98 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: the nature of the universe. And by standard model, you 99 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: mean sort of like our collection or our idea, our 100 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: our survey of all the particles that make up the universe. Right, Yeah, 101 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: we've been building it for decades now. Our understanding of 102 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: what is out there, what kind of particles can be 103 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: used to make up the universe not just what particles 104 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: are used to make up me and you and hamsters 105 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 1: and lamas and ice cream, but also what kinds of 106 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: particles are possible, and that gives us a sense for 107 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: like how the universe is organized and what the patterns are, 108 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: and and gives us access to some of those really 109 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: interesting fundamental and basic questions. But we find these one 110 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: at a time, bit by bit, sometimes after years of 111 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: painful work. So you call this list or this I 112 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: guess it's more like a table or like a like 113 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: a grid of particles. You call that the standard model. Yeah, 114 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: the standard model is sort of like our current consensus 115 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: list of particles we found and what we know about them. 116 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: And so it's filled with a bunch of particles, about 117 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: twelve of them right so far. Yeah, there are twelve 118 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: matter particles, the kind of particles that make up me 119 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: and you and all sorts of stuff. And then there 120 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: are other kinds of particles that represent forces, the way 121 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: the things push against each other and pull themselves together. 122 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: And so there's a handful of those extra particles as well. Yeah, 123 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: and so today we'll be talking about one that's I mean, 124 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: you could literally say it's at the nucleus of all 125 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: the things that we're made out of. Right, that's right. 126 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: It holds all of us together. So to be on 127 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: the program, we'll be asking the question how was the 128 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: glue on discovered? And the glue on is one of 129 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: my favorite particles because it has such an awesome name. 130 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: I wonder what that meeting was like. They're like, um, 131 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: we got this new particle and it's it's really sticky. 132 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: I can't get it off my fingers. You know. I 133 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: did a little informal survey here in my household just 134 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: a few minutes ago. I asked my kids. I said, 135 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: if I said the word glue on to you, what 136 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: do you think that means? And my daughter said, I 137 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: don't know something particle physics ce maybe, but it sounds 138 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: kind of sticky, and so I thought that was a 139 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: pretty good guest. Yeah. I think having a particle physics 140 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: dad might have influenced their answer. That could have been 141 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: a clue. Yes. Yeah, So this is one of the 142 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: fundamental particles and it's it's pretty important, right, It's definitely 143 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: very important. Without the glue on, we would not be here, 144 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: nuclear I would not hold together the universe as we 145 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: know it would look totally different without the glue on, 146 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: but it took a while for us to find It's 147 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: a pretty interesting story and so we'll jump into that. 148 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: But first we were wondering how many people out there 149 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: know about I guess, first of all the glue on, 150 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: and second of all how it was discovered. So, as usual, 151 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: Daniel went out there into the wilds of the internet 152 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: and asked people to send in their answers without looking 153 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: it up to what they thought was the process in 154 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: which the glue was discovered. That's right, and so if 155 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: you'd like the volunteer to answer hard physics questions with 156 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: no preparation and no googling, please right to us two 157 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. We'd love to 158 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: put your baseless speculation on the podcast. So think about 159 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: it for a second. How would you answer the question 160 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: what is the gluon? And how was it discovered? Here's 161 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: what people had to say. I don't know how the 162 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: clue one was to check it, but like the rest 163 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: of the tenant and wh community of an imagine, it 164 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: happened at the LHC and it's discovery as an epic 165 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: tail that changed the fundamental understanding of the universe, maybe 166 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: by firing lasers at protons and then protons explode and 167 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: you can measure bluans flying away. It was about time 168 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 1: he was hiding for a long time. Probably was a 169 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: sting operation there. I think gluon is what holds quarks together. 170 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: So my guess is, when quirks were discovered, um, we 171 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: wanted to find out, well, what connects these quirks, what's 172 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: the strong words that holds these things together? And that 173 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: might be how blue ones were detected. I think that 174 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: it's likely that some physicists or scientists discovered it by 175 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: a happy accident. I think particle physics, you take normal matter, 176 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: you smash normal matter, normal metal goes boom, and all 177 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: that is left is some viad stuff. Alright, A lot 178 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: of people, uh want to give you credit. They think 179 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: it came from the LHC. That's right. Everybody just gives 180 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: all the credit for particle discoveries to the latest, hottest, biggest, 181 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: sexiest collider. Yeah. Well, you guys have taken up a 182 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: lot of headlines, at least in the last ten years. Yeah, 183 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: well that's true. That's because it takes a while to 184 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: build a collider, so you don't get like a new 185 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 1: one every year or so. So when you build a 186 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: collider it sort of takes up the popular imagination for 187 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: a couple of decades. Well, there are a lot of 188 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: answers here about it holds nuclear together, involves courts and lasers. 189 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: So a step us through this, Daniel, I guess, first 190 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: of all, what is the gluon and does it dry 191 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: really quickly or do you have to wait like twenty 192 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: four hours. Well, first of all, I have to say 193 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: I wish that I had more lasers to play with 194 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: in my job. Mostly it's just tapping on a keyboard. 195 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: I don't get a fire laser basically anything ever, which 196 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: is too bad. Well, you probably have a laser in 197 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: your mouth, right, but you have a little like a laser. 198 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: That's how your mouth probably reads where it is. Yeah, 199 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: that's true. There are lasers everywhere. I have a laser 200 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: in my laser pointer, which I used to use for 201 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: lecturing when I gave lectures in person, but no more anyway. 202 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: A gluon is a really fun particle, and it's a 203 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: really important particle, and it's connected to the strong nuclear force, 204 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: and I has sort of the same relationship to the 205 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: strong nuclear force that the photon does to electromagnetism. Electromagnetism, 206 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: you remember, is the force that gives us like electricity 207 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: and magnetism. It's you know, the thing that gives us 208 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: lightning and electricity and all that good stuff. And that 209 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: force is carried by the photon. Like any time you 210 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: have an electromagnetic interaction, you have photons flying around carrying 211 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: that information. Really, so it's sort of like the transmitter 212 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: particle the photon. Yeah, exactly. We break up particles into 213 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: two kinds, matter particles, which are like electrons and corks 214 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff, the stuff that makes up 215 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: matter and stuff, and then the force particles. And that's 216 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: how the particles talk to each other. And you can 217 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: think about two electrons coming near each other. How do 218 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: they bounce off each other? They don't have like physical 219 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: edges that touch the way that your elbow touches the table. 220 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: What happens. They shoot photons at each other to talk 221 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: to each other and bounce off each other, even like 222 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: a fridge magnet, or like if if I take two 223 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: magnets and they repel each other, they're actually shooting photons 224 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 1: at each other. Yeah, and it can get a little 225 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: hairy to think about what the actual photons are. Really. 226 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: What we're talking about our wiggles in the fields between them. 227 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: So every magnet has a magnetic field, and when it moves, 228 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: it changes that magnetic field, and infer nation about the 229 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: changing field is what we call a photon. These aren't 230 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: always the same kinds of photons that hit your eyes. 231 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: That can have very low frequency, a very high frequency, 232 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: or sometimes they're even virtual particles, not particles that like 233 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: live a very long time. We have a whole fun 234 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: podcast about what it means to be a virtual particle. 235 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: It's just sort of the name you give to the wiggles. 236 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: When two particles talk to each other, yeah, exactly. The 237 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: way they talk to each other is sort of action 238 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: at a distance. You know, people wondered for a long time, 239 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: like how do things push on each other without touching, 240 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: And the answer is that they have these fields. Right, 241 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: An electron, for example, as an electric field around it, 242 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: and that field is what pushes on the other electron. 243 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: A totally equivalent way to think about that field is 244 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: to think about it as a bunch of particles. So 245 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: you can either think about as fields or particles. For now, 246 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: we think about it as particles, or think about those 247 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: particles as the wiggles in the fields. It's really all equivalent, right, 248 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: And so the gluon is the one that transmits to 249 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: force for the strong nuke your force. So that's one 250 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: of the one of the fore fund mental forces. Electromagnetism 251 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: and gravity are two of them. A third one is 252 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: the strong nuclear force. That's right exactly. And we spent 253 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: a lot of time understanding electromagnetism. The first theory of 254 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: quantum fields was by Feynman and quantum electrodynamics with the 255 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: understanding of how electrons use photons to talk to each other. 256 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: And then we thought, well, can we also use this 257 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: for the other fields and the other forces, and so 258 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: like the strong nuclear force is a very important one. 259 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: So people were thinking, if electromagnetism has a particle that's 260 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: used to go back and forth between electrons, what's the 261 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: particle that goes back and forth between corks when they 262 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: interact using the strong nuclear force. And so that's the 263 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: idea of the gluon. That's why we thought maybe there 264 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: is a gluon in the universe. And I guess maybe 265 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: just to recap the strong nuclear forces. It's not a 266 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: force that we feel on an everyday basis, like you don't, 267 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: so they need to know about it. But it is 268 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: sort of what's keeping the nuclear of your atoms together, right, 269 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: Like it's pretty much the sort of the main place 270 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: where it acts. Yeah, it's a very short range force, 271 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: and so it likes to hold things together very very tightly. 272 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: It's very very powerful, and so it's mostly balanced out. 273 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: Like anything that's imbalanced on the strong nuclear force. Very 274 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: rapidly that force will realign so that everything gets like 275 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: smoothed out and balanced out, and that you don't feel 276 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: the force anymore. And so it operates mostly very short distances, 277 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: like the size of the proton. It ties those corks 278 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: together into a proton and hold it together. And what 279 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: you feel on a normal, everyday basis is mostly electromagnetism, 280 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: like when you push against the wall. It's the electromagnetic 281 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: force of the bonds of the electrons to the atom 282 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: that are keeping the atoms from passing between each other. Right. 283 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: But it's very short range, and that like if I 284 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: have a cork here and a court meter away, they're 285 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: not going to feel the strong nuclear force, right, It's 286 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: only when you get them really close to each other, 287 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: but they then snap together. Yeah, actually you can't have 288 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: a cork by itself because the strong nuclear force is 289 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: so powerful that it as soon as you create a 290 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: quirk by itself and give it like any distance at all, 291 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: the energy stored in the strong nuclear field is so 292 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: powerful that other quarks will just be created out of 293 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: the vacuum to surround it. So the situation you just described, 294 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: having like two quarks a meter apart is essentially impossible 295 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: in our universe because so much energy would be stored 296 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: in the strong nuclear force between them that would just 297 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: create a shower of other matter in between them to 298 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: surround them with other quarks. Well that's wild, all right. Well, well, 299 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: so that's the gluon, but it's different than the photon. 300 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: That's the gluon exactly, And it's different from the photon, 301 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: like it's the force particle for the strong nuclear force, 302 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: and the strong nuclear forces also created different from electromagnetism 303 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: in lots of other ways, Like it's not just that 304 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: it's a short range force and it holds a nucleus together. 305 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: It's different because it's more complicated, like electromagnetism has positive 306 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: and negative charges, and photons only interact with things that 307 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: have positive and negative charges. Like if you're neutral, like 308 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: a neutron or a neutrino, then you can't interact with 309 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: the photon. The photon ignores you. You on the interact 310 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: with things that have positive and negative charges. But the 311 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: strong nuclear force is really weird. It doesn't just have 312 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: two charges like positive and negative. So you can't like 313 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: line them up on a number line and think about 314 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: like plus one plus two zero minus one minus two. 315 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: It has three different charges, three different directions, so you 316 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: need like three axis to think about instead of just two, 317 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: Like it has a plus and minus and a and 318 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: an x. Yeah, And so instead of lining them up 319 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: on the number line, we actually think about them in 320 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: terms of colors. We think about them and the red axis, 321 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: the green axis, and the blue axis, and that sort 322 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: of works mathematically because if you add them all up together, 323 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: you end up in the middle. We call that white 324 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: or like color lists, And so we try to make 325 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: this analogy to how we know colors mixed together to 326 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: help us think about these color charges. These are not 327 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: electric charges. Their charges for the strong nuclear force their 328 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: color charges. And I guess maybe a question is how 329 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: do we know about these different charges, Like it's such 330 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: a strange concept, it's really weird. And it was a 331 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: cool discovery actually in the sixties and seventies because when 332 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: we first started understanding that particles are made out of quarks. 333 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: You know that protons have quarks inside them, we found 334 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: all these other particles that were different mixtures of quarks. 335 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: We found this really weird one, the delta plus plus particle, 336 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: and it was made of three up corks, which just 337 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: like three upquorks combined, gives you this doubly charged delta 338 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: plus plus particle. But there's a problem with that because 339 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: we think that quarks are fermions. That means that, like electrons, 340 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: you can't have two of them in the same state. 341 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: Like you know how if you have an atom, you 342 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: put an electron around it, the next one has to 343 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: go up in the next energy level. You can't like 344 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: hang out together. For meons don't like to be together 345 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: in the same quantum state. And so the problem with 346 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: the delta plus plus is that it has three of 347 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: these corks, but they should be interchangeable, Like how can 348 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: you have three fermions all in the same quantum state? 349 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: Together in a particle seemed to violate this basic principle, 350 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: and so somebody thought, well, maybe they're not the same. 351 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: Maybe they all have like a different color charge. One 352 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: is red, one is green, and one is blue, and 353 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: that would explain it. And so that was sort of 354 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: the origin of the idea. And so I guess maybe 355 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: courts can have any one of these three charges, like 356 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: an upcork or a down court can be red, green, 357 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: or blue. Yeah, exactly the way, like an electron and 358 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: positron are related because they have opposite electric charge, but 359 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: they are a different particle. A quirk can be a 360 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: red cork or green cork or blue cork. We don't 361 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: call a different particle. What the truth is that there 362 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,719 Speaker 1: are three different kinds of up corks. They really are 363 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: different particles. Green upcork is different from a red upcork 364 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: or a blue upcork, the same way an electron is 365 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: different from a positron. All right, So that's the glue on. 366 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: The blue on is what transmits the strong the dervors 367 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: and which therefore holds all the quarks inside of your 368 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: protons and neutrons together, which is kind of important. Without it, 369 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: you would just fall apart. You totally would be because 370 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: I remember that these corks also have electric charges, like 371 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: a proton has two up corks in it and a 372 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: down court, and the charges they were totally blow it 373 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: apart if the glue wasn't there to hold it together. 374 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: So thank you gluon. Thanks thanks for sticking with us 375 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: and sticking us together. All right, So it's super important, 376 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: and people theorized that it might exist, just like the 377 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: photon existed, But discovery of it was pretty interesting and 378 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: pretty dramatic. So let's get into that. But first let's 379 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: take a quick break, all right. So we're talking about 380 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: the discovery of the gluon, which was not a simple 381 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: or easy discovery apparently, Daniel. Yeah, and it was a 382 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: dramatic race actually between two different groups of folks, the 383 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: Europeans in Americans, both trying to build a collider capable 384 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: of discovering the gluon and racing again to each other. Wow, 385 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: that does sound dramatic. So I guess people knew that 386 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: it probably existed, right because it something must be transmitting 387 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: the strong nuclear force. But I guess maybe just the 388 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: question was like nobody had seen it, right, nobody had 389 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: seen it on like a piece of paper or an experiment. Yeah, 390 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: so this is like the late seventies, and at that 391 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: point we had found all the corks, the up, the down, 392 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: the charm, the strangers to bottom, but not yet the 393 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: top corp. People were pretty sure the top cork was 394 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: out there, but it's gonna be another fifteen years or 395 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: so before it was discovered. And we knew about the 396 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: photon and electrons and stuff, but all the other force 397 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: particles that we now know that gluon, the W and 398 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: di z, those had not yet been discovered, and so 399 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: we really only had evidence for one force particle, the photon, 400 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: and so we were pretty sure the glueon existed, but 401 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: it was kind of a big extrapolation, and so it 402 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: was gonna be really nice to say, like, wow, it 403 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: really existed actually out there. It was sort of a 404 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: big question for particle physics whether this whole like forces 405 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: as particles moving between other particles thing was real, you know, 406 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: the same way like we think maybe gravity has a graviton, 407 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: but nobody's ever found it before. We could be totally wrong. 408 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: Maybe gravity doesn't work by exchanging particles. So it was 409 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: really a big open question. It's easy to look back 410 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: on these things and say, oh, yeah, well that was obvious. 411 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: But at the time there was a lot of uncertainty 412 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: about whether this whole picture of particles talking into each 413 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 1: other by passing other particles back and forth was really valid. 414 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: We didn't know the idea would stick together. So I 415 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: guess maybe you know it's interesting because a photon you 416 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: can sort of see right, Like you can literally see 417 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: a photon it it'll hit your eyeball in the back 418 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: and you'll see it. But concluance do that too, Like 419 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: can you see an individual gluon? Like can it float 420 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: out into space and hit your eyeball? Well, a gluon, 421 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: like a cork, can't be by itself, and that's because 422 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: it's colored, not in the sense of it like is red, green, 423 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: or blue, but in the sense of the strong nuclear charge. 424 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: And anything that has a strong nuclear charge has so 425 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: much energy bound up in that fours that immediately creates 426 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: a spray of particles. So if you had a gluon 427 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: flying through the air somehow, what would happen is that 428 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: would create other quirks around it to balance out that 429 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: color charge. So what you get is a stream of particles. Wait, 430 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: a gluon has charged, but like a photon doesn't have charge. 431 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: A photon is neutral, right, Like light doesn't have positive 432 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: or negative charge, but gluons do have charge. Yeah, and 433 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: that's one thing that makes a strong force very different 434 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: from electromagtism. You totally put your finger on it. Photons 435 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: don't talk to each other. Like photons passed right through 436 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: each other. They don't have electric charges. Photons can only 437 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,239 Speaker 1: talk to things that do have electric charges, but they 438 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: don't talk to each other. So like two rays of 439 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: light don't bounce off each other. But gluons, you're totally right. 440 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: They have color and they actually carry two colors each 441 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: of them. And because of that, they can interact with 442 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: each other. And so two gluons like shooting at each 443 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: other with totally like form a little particle. In fact, 444 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: we're searching for that. We're gonna talk about that later. 445 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: It's called a glue ball when you combine two gluons 446 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: and do a particle and glue ball. Nice, all right, 447 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: So there was a race to detect the glue. So 448 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: we said, have had an idea of it and maybe 449 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: a theory about it, but nobody had actually seen it 450 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: until people were smashing things together hoping that one one 451 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: would pop out, or that you know, evidence of one 452 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: would pomp out. Yeah, the idea was that you needed 453 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: enough energy to make them. What we had done already 454 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: was smash particles together and see pairs of quarks. So 455 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: you can smash, for example, an electron and a positron together, 456 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: and those will annihily and turn into a little ball 457 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: of energy like a photon. And sometimes that photon will 458 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: turn into two quarks, like an up quirk and an 459 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: anti up cork. Whence you get there, there's two quarks 460 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: flying out. But because of what we talked about earlier, 461 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: how corks can't be by themselves, each one turns into 462 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: like a stream of particles. We call this a jet 463 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: of particles. What do you mean a stream like? Wouldn't 464 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: that mean that they're like one in front of the other, 465 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: or wouldn't they stick together? Well, you have two quirks 466 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: coming out a really high energy back to back, so 467 00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: like one with a lot of energy in one direction 468 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: and other going in the other direction with a lot 469 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: of energy, and so they don't stick together because they 470 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: have too much energy. They're flying apart. So it happens 471 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: that they create new particles out of that energy and 472 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: turn that energy into mass. And so instead of one 473 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: cork flying one way and antiquork flying the other way, 474 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 1: you get like ten quirks in the deck, quirks in 475 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: one direction and ten flying the opposite direction, like one 476 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: in front of the other. They come together because quarks 477 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: don't like to be by themselves, and so they form 478 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: other particles. So you never actually see a cork. What 479 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: you see are particles made from corks. You see protons 480 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: and chons and pyons and masons and all sorts of 481 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: crazy stuff. So when you create a quirk and an antiquork, 482 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: you create these two jets of particles. Each one has 483 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: particles inside of it that are made of quirks. Okay, 484 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: but I guess you don't actually see the individual gluons. 485 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: Then you just see kind of like the gluon after 486 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: it's created friends for itself. Yeah. So people had already 487 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: done that. They had seen pairs of quirks, and the 488 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: idea was what would happen if you put more energy 489 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: into the collision. You pour more energy into this electron 490 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: positron pair, and there might be enough energy for a 491 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: gluon to be created. So not just create the cork 492 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: and antiquark, but also in addition, create this glue on, 493 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: because just like an electron can give off a photon 494 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: if it has a lot of energy, a cork can 495 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: give off a glue on. It can radiate a glue 496 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: on if it has enough energy. Because it's just so 497 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: much energy flying around that you might occasionally randomly create 498 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,719 Speaker 1: one and send it off in a new direction. In 499 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: that case, you would see three of these jets, not 500 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: just two back to back, but three, and sort of 501 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: like a Mercedes pattern, each flying off in a different direction. 502 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: But we hadn't yet done that. We hadn't built a 503 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: collider with enough energy to create these gluons. So the 504 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: idea was build a bigger collider, smash particles together, higher energy. 505 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: Maybe instead of just seeing two quirk jets back to back, 506 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: you'd see two cork jets with a glue on jet 507 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: coming out the side right, But you wouldn't see the 508 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: glue on. The clue jet would just be again more quirk, yeah, exactly. 509 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: You wouldn't ever see the glue on directly. So it's 510 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: frustrating some times in particle physics because these detections are 511 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: never like perfect little pictures. It's not like we went 512 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 1: hunting for a unicorn and we have a picture of 513 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: the unicorn and it's indisputable. They're always sort of indirect 514 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: and here with cork and gluons, you never catch them 515 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: by themselves. You just sort of see the evidence for 516 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: what they made. You just see the hoofprints and those parkles. Yeah, 517 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: it's more like you look for a celebrity and instead 518 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: you see like the paparazzi around them. Because these corks 519 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: and gluons create these whole streams of particles which you 520 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,239 Speaker 1: can see. You can't actually see those anyway. So there 521 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: was this race between the Americans and they were building 522 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: a collider at Slack, and then the Germans were building 523 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: one at this collider at Daisy, which is a lab 524 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: outside of Hamburg. See, so it's Americans versus Germans. Slack 525 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: is the one at Stanford, right, Stanford Linear Accelerator, the 526 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: Complex Center Club collider, that's right. And so it was 527 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: the late seventies and everybody was trying to build their 528 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: collider to get there first, and the juror Wins turned 529 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: to sort of an unusual source to build the materials 530 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: and the facilities for their collider. They had a revolutionary 531 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: idea to hire manufacturers that used to build refrigerators what 532 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: to build their collider. Yeah, and so they subcontracted out 533 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 1: to this refrigerator company, and that company would like able 534 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: to ramp up really quickly and deliver the parts and 535 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: needed for this accelerator. It's called Petra p E t 536 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: R A. And it may be the first collider ever 537 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: in the history of particle physics to turn on ahead 538 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: of schedule and under budget. What it was also the 539 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: first one to have an ice dispenser. Conveniently, somehow they 540 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: stunked it in. So well, why French manufacturers just because 541 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: the equipment was similar, or they're they're just good German engineers. Yeah. Both. 542 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: You know, we use a lot of refrigeration in particle physics, 543 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: but mostly we're building you know, high precision machined objects. 544 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: You need these vacuum tubes, you need the struts. And 545 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: they were in a race and they said, hey, look, 546 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: this company says they can do it. Let's get at 547 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: them to try. And so they gambled a little bit 548 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: and one so they were able to build their collider 549 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: and come in ahead of the Americans. Which so this 550 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: one and Slack we're being built at the same time. 551 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: We're being built at the same time. Yeah, and then 552 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: unfortunately the Americans went with the toaster manufacturer, which had 553 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: a lot of delays. Is that what happened. They spent 554 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: all their money on avocados also an anticipation of the toast, 555 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: and then they went bad. These Californians too far out, 556 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: all right, So the Germans build it first, and so 557 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: did they find it first or what happened when they 558 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: trend it on? So they found it first, and they 559 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: cranked this thing up. And you know these days are 560 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: colliders are very very high energy. You know, the LHC, 561 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: for example, works at fourteen terra electron volts, which is 562 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: fourteen thousand billion electron volts. Back the end in the day, 563 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: in the late seventies, it was a big deal to 564 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: have like thirteen billion electron volts. And so this collider 565 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,719 Speaker 1: turned on first at thirteen giga electron volts and then 566 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: i ainked its way up to like twenties seven giga 567 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: electron bolts in the spring of nineteen seventy nine. And 568 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: the cool thing about particle physics discoveries is that once 569 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: you have enough energy, it can come pretty quickly. Like 570 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: the barrier to creating these particles, it really is just 571 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: having enough energy in your collisions. And so once you 572 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: turn it on and you have enough energy, you really 573 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: only need a little bit of data to actually find something, 574 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: because I guess things are quantum, right, So like you 575 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: need to hit a certain threshold of energy before certain 576 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: particles will be created, because you can't like make half 577 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: of a gluon, right, that's right, you can't make half 578 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: of the glue on. What you can do is make 579 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: a low energy glue on. And so what you need 580 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: to do is put enough energy into this collision that 581 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: the gluon can grab enough the energy that it can 582 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: fly off by itself and make that third jet. So 583 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: people have seen events with two cork jets in them, 584 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: but nobody ever seen a gluon come off and make 585 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: that third jet. So as you crank up the energy, 586 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: you expect to get more and more energy into the gluon, 587 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: and then the glue one should have enough energy sort 588 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: of like fly off and be on its own so 589 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: you can actually see its own third separate jet. Alright, 590 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: So then how much further ahead were the Germans like 591 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: were the years or months ahead of the Americans. It 592 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: was just months ahead. And there was a conference in 593 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: the middle of the summer in nineteen seventy nine that 594 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: everybody was aiming for, and the Germans were hoping to 595 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: turn their machine on and to see this and to 596 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: deliver decisive results at that June conference. They're hoping to 597 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: have some pretty cool results to freeze out the Americans 598 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: with their fridge collider. They were going to stick it 599 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: to him. All right, well, let's get into the actual 600 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: discovery of it, because um, apparently it was pretty significant 601 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: and interesting to finally get to that big drama moment. 602 00:30:46,200 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: But first let's take a quick break. All right, Daniel, 603 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: we are in the late seventies right now, nineteen seventy nine, 604 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: and the Americans are competing with the Germans to discover 605 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: the glue on and so finally the Germans build it first. 606 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: They're collider and discovered it. Was it that simple or 607 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: was it? Was? It kind of a hard discovery to make. 608 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: It was a little bit tricky, and that's because this 609 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: is the first era of colliders where we really have 610 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: a lot of data coming in, Like you're doing collisions 611 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: many times per second, and then you need some sort 612 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: of computer assistance to sift through all these collisions and 613 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: find the most exciting ones. These days, everything we do 614 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: is on the computer. Like at the large hage On collider, 615 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: you know, there's millions of collisions per second, and the 616 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: computers sift through them before we ever look at them. 617 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: In the early days of particle physics, you had stuff like, well, 618 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: you had a collision, you took a picture, you looked 619 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: at it, and you looked at the next one. This 620 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: is the first time we really had filtered the events 621 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: and the collisions by the computer. But you know, it's 622 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, and so the computers back then or 623 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: like much much slower and less powerful than the computer 624 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: that's literally in your refrigerator today. Yeah, they had They 625 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: took up whole rooms, and you needed punch cards, right, Yeah, 626 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: they had punch cards, And so they had to be 627 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: really careful and clever about how they're going to use 628 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: these computers. And not a lot of memory in them, 629 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: you can't just you know, write whatever computer program you 630 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: want to be sloppy about it. So there were a 631 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: bunch of folks who wrote some really clever computer algorithms 632 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: to try to isolate these events where you had three 633 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: different sprays of particles, and they wrote this code to 634 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: like figure out on what was the best angle to 635 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: look for these three prongs and to isolate the events 636 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: that were most likely to look like this. And so 637 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: not only did they build this accelerator ahead of schedule, 638 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: but they had this cool new snazzy computer software to 639 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: help them sift through all the collisions to find the 640 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: one they were looking for. They're like, see this little 641 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: paper cardboard card, that's my awesome new algorithm. It's pretty funny. Actually, 642 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: I remember my dad writing his master's thesis in and 643 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: nearing and using punch cards and you know, feeding them 644 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: into the computer and then it doesn't work, and he's 645 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: gonna go to the back of the line and the 646 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: way to turn again to feed them in. It's pretty crazy. 647 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: I guess you need a computer because how are you 648 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: getting all this data? Like you're getting this data through 649 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: detectors or like are they recording these events by hand? 650 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: These are definitely from detectors. And so just like at 651 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: the led C, the collision point, the point where the 652 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: electron and the protons smashed into each other is surrounded 653 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: by layers and layers of detectors that image particles that 654 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: come out. So the electron apolittron collide together in the 655 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: heart of the detector, and then you know, whatever happens 656 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: happens and things fly out, and we have these layers 657 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: of detectors that say a particle passed me, or a 658 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: particle passed over here, and then we use that to 659 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: sort of try to get an image of what happened, 660 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: so you can think of it's sort of like a 661 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: three D camera that makes a picture of everything that's 662 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: flying out from the detector. Where it went. All right, 663 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: So then they ran it and they found the glue on. 664 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: Did they find one event of the gluon or whole 665 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: like millions of events? What did the data look like. 666 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: Did they have to you know, sort of like sift 667 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: through sand or was it like one big like boom 668 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: there is They did actually have to sit through a 669 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: lot because luans are not that common at those energies. 670 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 1: Most likely you're just gonna have two corks back to 671 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: back and it's two jets. So they had to say 672 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 1: through a lot of events to find one. But then 673 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: they did and they turned it on and this is 674 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 1: like in June of nineteen seventy nine, they're like, you know, 675 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: a week before the conference and they find one. Their 676 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: computer says, ding, ding, ding, we found one that's interesting. 677 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: Take a look. They print this thing out there, like 678 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: you know, lay it flat on a piece of papers 679 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: that they can see what it looks like. And it's 680 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: very clear. There's like three of these sprays of particles, 681 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: not too like you expect to see from two corks, 682 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: but there's three. There's definitely this whole third jet that's 683 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: flying out the side. And they looked at it and 684 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,959 Speaker 1: they just knew. They were like, this is it. And 685 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: they went and they brought like that transparency to this 686 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: conference in Bergen and like slapped it up there during 687 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: the presentation and showed it and that was it. Like 688 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: everybody was like, Okay, that's it. You have found the 689 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: gluon were convinced just one event, like they didn't wait 690 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,439 Speaker 1: to get to After that, they collected a lot more data, 691 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: and you know, one event was enough to convince people 692 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: this is coming. They didn't actually write the science paper 693 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: until they had a few more events to support it, 694 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 1: and other detectors at the same accelerator had seen it, etcetera, etcetera. 695 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: But that one event really broke people's skepticism. That one 696 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: event told them, yeah, this is real. The backup data 697 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: is coming, but now we know it's here. So that 698 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: was sort of a famous event. You know, people were 699 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: at that conference or in the field know that one event. 700 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: They know what that picture looks like. Have you talked 701 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: to anyone who was in the room when they did? 702 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: They did they actually slapped the transparency down on the overhead. 703 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: They stormed in white lab coat flaring behind them. You 704 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 1: know here it is boom. But this is sort of 705 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: what I imagine, like this is the moment of discovery. 706 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: This is sort of the thing that we all hope 707 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: for that you're trying to crack a problem in the 708 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: universe in particle physics, trying to understand how things work, 709 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: and then it's just revealed to you. You like, see it, 710 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: there's the answer. Gluons are real. This kind of event, 711 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: this three jet event, just couldn't exist without glually, it 712 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: couldn't be like noise in the system or some kind 713 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: of fluke or some kind of um, I don't know, 714 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: some weird other thing that could have happened with the equipment. Yeah, 715 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: you know, there's a possibility of that. It's very unlikely 716 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: for it to just be some weird, noisy fluke, but 717 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: it's a possibility. And so of course they cross checked 718 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: their results and other people saw similar things, and so 719 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,879 Speaker 1: eventually the data was just indisputable. But that first event 720 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: will always be the one that like really heralded the 721 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: age of the gluons and also opened up this whole 722 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: era where we think about forces as transmitting particles. This 723 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: really showed us that this picture of sending particles back 724 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 1: and forth as the way forces work was not just 725 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: limited to electromagnetism. It also worked for the strong force, 726 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 1: and it led to other discoveries. A few years later. 727 00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,959 Speaker 1: All right, well, then what have we learned about glue 728 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,919 Speaker 1: on since then? Like what makes them express special or weird? Well, 729 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: gluons are weird because, as you say, they can talk 730 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: to each other, Like each gluon carries colors with it, 731 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,919 Speaker 1: and that means that they can talk to other gluons 732 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,879 Speaker 1: and potentially they can even like hang out together. There's 733 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: this idea that if you get two gluons and the 734 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: right configuration, they can even form a particle just made 735 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,439 Speaker 1: out of gluons. This would be like a thing that's 736 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 1: pure glue, right, because they like if you get three 737 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,879 Speaker 1: of them with different charges, when they just naturally stick together. Yeah, 738 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 1: and there's also complicated math of ways you can combine 739 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,439 Speaker 1: gluons that make a color neutral object. You can also 740 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: just do with two gluons. They can have the opposite 741 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,840 Speaker 1: colors of each other. Now, nobody's ever seen this before. 742 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,879 Speaker 1: We call this a glue ball. And their experiments out there, 743 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: one of them is called glue X that's looking for 744 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: exactly this kind of thing. So we don't know if 745 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: it's real, sort of in the realm of things people 746 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: have predicted calculations we've done. We don't know if we 747 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: will see it. If it does exist, it's not going 748 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: to be that heavy. It's just like about the mass 749 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: of a proton or so. But it's pretty tricky to 750 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: spot because if it does exist, it's gonna look a 751 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: lot like other stuff. And it sounds more like a 752 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: playground game Globall. Okay, let's play goloball. Yeah, exactly. So 753 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,760 Speaker 1: we're looking for these particles made out of just force particles, 754 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: you know, is there any president for that? Like, you 755 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: can't make a particle out of photons. Right now, the 756 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,760 Speaker 1: strong force is the only one where the force carrier 757 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: actually feels the force. You can't make a particle out 758 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: of two photons. And a few years later we found 759 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: other force particles. There's the W and the Z bosons. 760 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: These are the ones that correspond to the weak nuclear force, 761 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: and they also they don't feel the weak nuclear force, right, 762 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: so you can't make a particle just out of ws 763 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: and zs. So the strong nuclear force is definitely weird. 764 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: It's weird and lots of ways. It's weird because there's 765 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 1: three charges. It's weird because the force carrying particles feel 766 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: their own force. And in fact, just like there are 767 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: three kinds of quirks because of the colors, there are 768 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: actually eight different kinds of gluon. Eight What do you 769 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: mean eight? I thought there were only there was only 770 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: one with three colors to it. Well, the corks have 771 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: one color, but the gluons each carry two colors. What 772 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: I guess is they have to match to the two 773 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 1: quirks or what exactly right? And so for example, a 774 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: gluon can be like red anti blue, or it can 775 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: be green anti red or whatever. There's lots of different combinations, 776 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: and so it turns out there eight individual different kinds 777 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: of gluons. We have one photon for electromagnetism, but there 778 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: are eight different gluons because of all the colors. And 779 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 1: it makes you realize like there's a lot going on 780 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: inside these particles that we can't see or even really 781 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: imagined that most of the particles out there are actually 782 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: colored particles, because we think of them as like one 783 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: cork and one gluon, but really there's eight gluons and 784 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: three of each. Kind of quirk. They sound strange enough 785 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: to be their own like matter particle, but they're not 786 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: a matter part they're not matter particles. But if you 787 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: could make a glue ball that would be sort of 788 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 1: like a kind of matter just made out of forces. 789 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: That would be really strange. We've never seen that before, 790 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: totally fascinating. If we could create it and study it, well, 791 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,359 Speaker 1: it sounds like maybe you guys did pick a pretty 792 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: good name, because you know, gluants are so sticky they 793 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: even stick to themselves exactly. They're like that clinger up 794 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 1: that's not supposed to stick to yourself, but it does, 795 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: all right. So and that's so that's a discovery. Nine. 796 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: That's when we discovered gluont and that's how we knew 797 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 1: how the nucleus of your atoms stayed together. Yeah, and 798 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: that really powered the generation of discoveries that came next. 799 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: Like in the eighties, we discovered the W and the 800 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: z bosons and with a lot of confidence that they 801 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: existed because we understood that a lot of these forces 802 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 1: really were mediated by these force particles. And so it 803 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: was a pretty exciting moment for the field. And it 804 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: gives everyone who has a rich company hope that they 805 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 1: can maybe build the next great particle collider. You should 806 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 1: always put your bid in because you never know when 807 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 1: the government will come back and say, yes, actually we 808 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: want you to do this. All right, Well, that was 809 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: pretty interesting, pretty dramatic, and very fundamental. You know, without 810 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,879 Speaker 1: this particle, we none of us would be here. I mean, 811 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,760 Speaker 1: the universe could go on, but we, like as beings 812 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 1: held together, wouldn't be here to talk about it. Yeah, 813 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: me and you, we have lots of luans inside us. 814 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: It's sort of weird to be searching for a particle 815 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: that we know is an inherent part of who we 816 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: are and how we operate. But sometimes it takes a 817 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 1: while to reveal its shy nature. But yeah, you and 818 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: me and stars and everything around us has gluons inside 819 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 1: of it. All right. Well, we hope you enjoyed that. 820 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, See you next time. Thanks for listening, 821 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge explained. The Universe is 822 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,800 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast for 823 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple Podcasts, 824 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,759 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite show. This m 825 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: M M