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Speaker 1: Welcome to Behind the Bastards, the show where we talk

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Speaker 1: about the worst people in all of history, and every

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Speaker 1: now and then, Jamie, we change ourselves for the better. Wow,

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Speaker 1: we learned something. I got a big file cabinet in

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Speaker 1: the background. I've been learning a lot of things. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: keep just lie about a file cabinet for decades, just like, really,

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Speaker 1: milk the most out of you could possibly can out

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Speaker 1: of the fact that you worked for a guy with

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Speaker 1: a file cabinet back in the sixties. Imagine if everyone

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Speaker 1: had that foresight to be like, no, no, no no, you

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Speaker 1: didn't understand. I used to work at a comptroller's office,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like a real missed opportunity. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: not too late. I hate that word, by the way, comptroller,

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Speaker 1: because it's supposed to be pronounced controller, not the way

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Speaker 1: the Massachusetts controller pronounced it. But funny. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: we've been talking about Boston a lot, and that's just

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Speaker 1: one more reason they're bad. Um anyway, outside of boss parties. Yeah, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the story of Bill Billiam Cooper. Are

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Speaker 1: you are you ready to can? I see you've got

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Speaker 1: your beanie baby. Um, I just got my e Babyanie

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Speaker 1: baby in the mail. I'm so excited. And that's a

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Speaker 1: death themed beanie baby, is it not? It's well, that's no,

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Speaker 1: that's this one. This is the the end. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: do have a death themed beanie baby. Yeah yeah, that

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Speaker 1: theme is the death of beanie babies. Um yeah, I

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Speaker 1: got a you know mint condition the mail. And before

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Speaker 1: anyone bothers me about it, that they're like because there's

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Speaker 1: like this myth that beanie babies are expensive, They're not.

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Speaker 1: I got these two for eight dollars together. So I'm good.

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Speaker 1: I have a I have a I have an animal familiar,

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Speaker 1: and I'm ready to go. Alrighty, well, let's some do

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Speaker 1: some ships, all right. On July four, nineteen eighty nine,

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Speaker 1: Bill Cooper commit did marriage for the very last time.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah. Yeah. This wife would be his most successful

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Speaker 1: adult relationship, and depending on who you believe, their relationship

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Speaker 1: may be evidence that he did grow as a person. Um,

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Speaker 1: although that may not be true either. Yeah. She was

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Speaker 1: a twenty year old Taiwanies a woman named Annie Mordhost.

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Speaker 1: Bill was forties six years old at the time. Um yeah.

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Speaker 1: In the grand tradition of all wonderful love stories, Annie

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Speaker 1: and Bill were married in a Las Vegas Boulevard wedding chapel,

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Speaker 1: and we know very little about their courtship. Bill would

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Speaker 1: claim that Annie was the daughter of a nationalist Chinese

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Speaker 1: official who had fled the country when Mao and his

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Speaker 1: Communists won the Civil War. Uh, but you know, who

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Speaker 1: knows what the funk happened really about her life? Annie

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Speaker 1: came into perhaps like everything Bill says. Yeah. Um, Annie

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Speaker 1: came into Bill's life just as his career and conspiracies

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Speaker 1: was really starting to take off. She defended her new

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Speaker 1: husband fiercely. At one point during a lecture at the

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Speaker 1: Showboat Hotel and Casino, fight broke out between two uf

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Speaker 1: O nerds, and he stepped in front of her husband

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Speaker 1: with a hand on the hilt of an enormous kitchen

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Speaker 1: knife she always kept in her purse. Um. Okay, actually

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Speaker 1: they maybe found each other. Yeah, she was kind of

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Speaker 1: right or die for a while there. Yeah, definitely seems

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Speaker 1: to have been willing to stab a man for for

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Speaker 1: this guy. Yeah. Bill had relatively few real innovations he

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Speaker 1: could claim to have brought to the world of ufology.

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Speaker 1: Most of what made him unique was his ability to

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Speaker 1: carve off chunks of other people's work and weave them

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Speaker 1: into explicitly political theories that tied directly into the contemporary world.

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Speaker 1: And this is what builded best. Yeah, but also like

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Speaker 1: making UFOs political, like tying tying alien not just alien

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Speaker 1: conspiracies exists, but like tying them into things that are

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Speaker 1: fucked up in the modern world. Um. His work was

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Speaker 1: unique in the notoriously scatter brained and chaotic world of

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Speaker 1: uf O nerds. Uh Norio Hayakawa, one of the most

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Speaker 1: famous ufologists in this period, ran into build during a

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Speaker 1: UFO convention in West Hollywood. Vote. A lot of UFO

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Speaker 1: meetings can be dull, but on this night they had

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Speaker 1: Bill Cooper. I hadn't heard of him. He looked like

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Speaker 1: a normal middle aged guy, huge but paunchy, with receding hair.

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Speaker 1: He could have been anybody. He made a couple of

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Speaker 1: remarks and then read his secret government paper. He didn't

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Speaker 1: look up, just read for an hour and a half.

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Speaker 1: But what he was saying, the authority with which he

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Speaker 1: said it was very interesting. Most of upology avoids politics,

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Speaker 1: but with Bill Cooper everything was political. He was the

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Speaker 1: first person to really take the UFO phenomena and extended

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Speaker 1: out as a way to talk about global politics, history, religion,

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Speaker 1: and society. It sounded so fresh to me, so intriguing.

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Speaker 1: The most important thing I thought was to get Bill

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Speaker 1: bigger and better vinues so more people could hear what

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Speaker 1: he had to say. Again, it's like he's using that

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Speaker 1: military cloud and that military delivery tot. If you've ever

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Speaker 1: watched if you've ever spent hours watching UM lectures from

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Speaker 1: different UFO conventions in the nineteen nineties, and yeah, most

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Speaker 1: of them aren't great at talking. Uh. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people who never should have been in front of a

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Speaker 1: crowd to crowd public. Yeah, okay, Yeah, Bill does have

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Speaker 1: right like he presents himself in a way that people

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Speaker 1: take him more seriously than they do most people in

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Speaker 1: this world. Um. So, this Hayakawa guy was responsible for

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Speaker 1: booking Bill one of his first big speaking gigs at

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Speaker 1: Hollywood High Um. And after this Bill went through a

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Speaker 1: brief spell as one of UFOlogy's leading luminaries. He probably,

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Speaker 1: like in the world of UFOs, is like having a

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Speaker 1: talk at a high school a big deal. This one

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Speaker 1: was because it's a big high school. That's true, that's

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Speaker 1: Hollywood High School for crying child start exactly, UM, pat

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Speaker 1: them in basketball all the time in high school. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what I didn't do just there, Sophie selfish.

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Speaker 1: I didn't selfishly plug yourself. No, I didn't make a

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Speaker 1: joke about the horrible pedophile ring that has existed in

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Speaker 1: Hollywood for decades. Um, you did bring it up right now, though,

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Speaker 1: I did bring it up right now. So we want

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Speaker 1: to throw in a show where it is like really

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Speaker 1: difficult to lower the mood further. We really did just

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Speaker 1: find a way to do it. Yeah, and that's evidence

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Speaker 1: that growth only goes so far, right. You know, we

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Speaker 1: we we can, we can make some movements towards progress,

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Speaker 1: but we always remain the people that we we were born. Um, anyway,

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Speaker 1: shout out to which one of the Corries is the

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Speaker 1: one who's been talking about Oh wait no, the Cory

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Speaker 1: is the one that killed him. Um, I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to multiple corries. Yeah, this this, this shouldn't have happened.

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Speaker 1: I'm solving my beanie baby in a vice script. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so Bill Bill becomes kind of like a big name

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Speaker 1: on the UFO circuit in like nineteen nine, uh, nineteen ninety,

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Speaker 1: and his speaking skills improved, and you know, during this

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Speaker 1: period he drew the attention of a pair of Hollywood managers,

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Speaker 1: Douglas Kane and Michael Callen. So, like, these guys are

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Speaker 1: going to record in license Bill's lectures, and there's kind

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Speaker 1: of talk about, like, oh, Bill might become kind of

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Speaker 1: like a major a major media figure, like something like

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Speaker 1: Alex Jones kind of Winda was briefly, um if you

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Speaker 1: remember what Alex Jones was in movies and stuff. Um,

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Speaker 1: So there there's talk about this happening. But Bill kind

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Speaker 1: of immediately gets into a giant fight with these guys

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Speaker 1: and proved himself very difficult to work with. And the

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Speaker 1: fight this, the dispute arises over the rights to the

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Speaker 1: master recordings of some of his lectures. Um. And rather

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Speaker 1: than like deal with this the way that an adult

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Speaker 1: in a professional context would, Bill calls Michael up drunk,

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Speaker 1: um just just absolutely hammered and threatens to murder both men.

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Speaker 1: Um uh, he tells them, quote, I'd suggest you be

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Speaker 1: real careful, don't write no bucking broncos, don't do nothing

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Speaker 1: you haven't done before, because I guarantee you no one

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Speaker 1: is going to hurt me and get away with it.

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Speaker 1: Take care, Mike, love you, and we're gonna make sure

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Speaker 1: you amount to something, even if it's a pile of dogshit.

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Speaker 1: We miss you, we really do. And the next time

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Speaker 1: we see you, we're going to get you a real

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Speaker 1: good present. Like god, yeah, it sounds like he's on

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Speaker 1: an eight chan board. Yeah. And the next morning Diana

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Speaker 1: wa wakes up to find out that his tires have

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Speaker 1: been slashed. And since Bill lived nearby, like, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of not a grid not a mystery, No, Bill, I

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Speaker 1: mean not not a subtle man, not a subtleman. So

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Speaker 1: um yeah. Dean reported Cooper to the sheriff, and Bill

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Speaker 1: later wrote that this was all part of a scheme

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Speaker 1: to disrupt his work and stop him from educating the

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Speaker 1: American people. Um. Yeah, and that's you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: what Bill. Bill is big into the UFO scene until

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Speaker 1: like the early nineties, really ninete is when he starts

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Speaker 1: to undergo a change of heart around the whole issue

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Speaker 1: of UFOs and extraterrestrials. Um, so, what that makes it

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Speaker 1: like less than ten years that he's heavy into that.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, it's only it's only really a couple of

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Speaker 1: years that he's so it's just really a passing interest

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Speaker 1: for him. Yeah, he's always partly in it. So basically,

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Speaker 1: he claims that he starts to become like convinced in

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Speaker 1: the early nineteen nineties that like, rather than uh UFOs

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Speaker 1: being like the hoax being around the government trying to

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Speaker 1: cover up UFOs, the existence of UFOs is itself a hoax.

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Speaker 1: He calls it the greatest hoax in history, and it's

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Speaker 1: being perpetrated by the government to give people something to

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Speaker 1: focus on while they ignore the real conspiracies that are

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Speaker 1: going on. Um, which there's actually some evidence that stuff

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Speaker 1: like that was going on that like the CIA and

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Speaker 1: ship we're um, we're kind of pushing conspiracy theorists to

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Speaker 1: discredit in general, like anti government sentiments and stuff anyway. Um.

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Speaker 1: But Bill becomes convinced that like there's this grand conspiracy

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Speaker 1: and and pushing fake UFO beliefs to sort of confuse

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Speaker 1: and discredit people who are going to speak out against

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Speaker 1: the new World Order. Um, it's like that's that's really

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Speaker 1: what's going on. Um. And the root of his new

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Speaker 1: theory came from a nineteen seventeen speech given by John Dewey,

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Speaker 1: the famous educator and psychologist the Dewey Decimal System. Guy.

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Speaker 1: Bill became convinced that the Dewey decimal system guy is

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Speaker 1: kind of at the heart of the coming New World Order.

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Speaker 1: Um So, in this nineteen seventeen speech, Dewey had made

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Speaker 1: the historic error of idly speculating that an alien invasion

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Speaker 1: might be the only thing that could force humanity to

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Speaker 1: unite and like save itself from you know, wiping itself

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Speaker 1: out in horrible war. And since this was coming at

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Speaker 1: the end of World War One, you get where Dewey's

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Speaker 1: coming from. Like, it's a pretty hopeless time to be

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Speaker 1: a human being. He's like, uh, if only aliens would

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Speaker 1: invade and we could all unite against something that like

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Speaker 1: wasn't murdering each other. Um But Bill Cooper was convinced

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Speaker 1: that Dewey's words weren't just like the idol and somewhat

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Speaker 1: desperate hope of an intelligent man staring out at the

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Speaker 1: devastation of war and hoping for a way to prevent

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Speaker 1: more death. Instead, he became convinced that those words were

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Speaker 1: a flagrantly clear signal of the secret plans of the

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Speaker 1: New World Order. Oh see, I guess that that's where

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Speaker 1: we we divert in our in our thought. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it is kind of like I think Dewey you

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Speaker 1: could probably argues kind of like the root of where

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Speaker 1: like that whole theory, that whole part of The Watchman

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Speaker 1: comes from. Like I think Dewey's kind of the first

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Speaker 1: guy to really be like, it'd be nice if aliens came,

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Speaker 1: Like maybe we'd stop murdering each other for a single second.

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Speaker 1: Is it is so? For it is so like you

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Speaker 1: can understand where it comes from and where the desire

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Speaker 1: to want it to you know, deflect the blame on

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Speaker 1: what's going wrong in the world and in the country

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Speaker 1: onto literally anything except the people that are already there

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Speaker 1: and running it. Yeah. Yeah, so Bill gets you know,

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Speaker 1: increasingly starting in like really into the New World Order

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theory. And the New World Order conspiracy theory was

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Speaker 1: like you'd call it a super theory. It was really

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Speaker 1: more of a whole conspiracist mindset rather than like a

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Speaker 1: discreet conspiracy theory. So we're well outside of like the

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Speaker 1: realm of you know, JFK was murdered by the c

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Speaker 1: I A. Right, that's a simple conspiracy theory. You can

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Speaker 1: explain it to every anyone who's curious in a sect. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the New World Order conspiracy theory is a mindset, and

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Speaker 1: every new thing that happens in the world, you like

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Speaker 1: a believer is going to kind of filter like file

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Speaker 1: in somewhere in that conspiracy theory. It kind of takes

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Speaker 1: it's one of it. Yeah, and you could see the

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Speaker 1: n w O as kind of an evolution of Majestic twelve.

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Speaker 1: You know, Majestic twelve starting in like the late eighties.

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Speaker 1: Is this theory about this, you know, secret government that

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Speaker 1: gets set up after Roswell and the New World Orders

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Speaker 1: just kind of really an evolution of this, and it

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Speaker 1: it comes at the end of the Cold War for

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Speaker 1: a good reason. Michael Barkun writes that the theory came

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Speaker 1: to quote constitute a common ground for religious and secular

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theorists, um, because you could tie in these kind

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Speaker 1: of apocalyptic Christian millenarian conspiracy theories, but you could also

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Speaker 1: tie in like completely a religious conspiracy theories, like you know,

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Speaker 1: the jfk assassination, like it all fit underneath the New

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Speaker 1: World Order, just kind of depending on your own personal

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Speaker 1: beliefs um. And Bill Cooper was kind of the guy

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Speaker 1: who very first plugs Majestic twelve and Roswell Alien nonsense

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Speaker 1: into the n w oh UM And depending on the

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Speaker 1: point in his career, he either did it to claim

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Speaker 1: that like the New World Order um existed to kind

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Speaker 1: of hide the existence of aliens from people, and then

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Speaker 1: later that like, oh, the n w oh is is

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Speaker 1: his pushing fake UFO conspiracy theories to distract people whatever.

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Speaker 1: Like he takes both tax over the course of his

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Speaker 1: career um very like large umbrella of conspiracies to yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's all about bringing people together. Really, well, that's the

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Speaker 1: thing Bill and all these other Bill is one of

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Speaker 1: these guys who's just talking constantly for like fifteen years,

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Speaker 1: and everything he says is adding something to the conspiracy theories.

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Speaker 1: So if you actually really try to like to map

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Speaker 1: out everything Bill believes and pushes in his life, like

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Speaker 1: we would be here for days. Um, we're going to

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Speaker 1: gloss over too much of this stuff to be honest,

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Speaker 1: Like he invent to He not invented, but he's the

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Speaker 1: reason people know about the FEMA death camp conspiracy theory.

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Speaker 1: Like he's the origin point for that one. Yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: not even really going to talk about it because it's

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Speaker 1: just one of a billion different things. He's the origin

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Speaker 1: point for Yeah, he's the first guy to published that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so fucking Bill Cooper. Um. Yeah, the n w O

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Speaker 1: really took off after nineteen ninety and Bill was its

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Speaker 1: most influential profit. His pivot away from aliens didn't isolate

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Speaker 1: him from his fans. Instead, it opened up a whole

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Speaker 1: new segment of the population to conspiratorial beliefs. Vast swaths

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Speaker 1: of the country who would never have been caught dead

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Speaker 1: at a UFO convention start, but it started to feel

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Speaker 1: like something was wrong with the way the country was going.

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Speaker 1: Like these kind of people would listen to Bill Cooper.

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Speaker 1: They never would have shown up to a mouf On convention,

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Speaker 1: but they listen to this stuff because it rang true

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Speaker 1: to them, because they were looking for an explanation as

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Speaker 1: to why things were wrong. Um that didn't involve like

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Speaker 1: reading left wing political theory. Well that's just a waste

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Speaker 1: of time, as we both know. Yeah, the left wing

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Speaker 1: guys get into this too, Like this is really That's

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Speaker 1: one of the things that's interesting about the New World

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Speaker 1: Order conspiracy theory is that it's very influential in a

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Speaker 1: number of sides. Um and Michael Barkin writes, quote, New

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Speaker 1: World Order theories seem to provide a graceful way of

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Speaker 1: exiting the domain of international relations and refocusing upon domestic politics.

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Speaker 1: This is in the wake of the Cold War ending.

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Speaker 1: Although the forces of the New World Order are international,

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Speaker 1: they are assumed to be concentrating on domestic agendas, particularly

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Speaker 1: the alleged destruction of American liberties. So Bill was savvy

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Speaker 1: enough to see that, like, as you know, part of

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Speaker 1: what's happening here. Why the New World Order conspiracy theory

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Speaker 1: gets so popular is that there's a lot of people

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Speaker 1: like Bill who are will permanently be anxious for the

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Speaker 1: rest of their lives because of the Cold War. We

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Speaker 1: call these people baby boomers, and they cause a lot

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Speaker 1: of problems. Um, and when the Cold War ends, a

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Speaker 1: lot of these guys needed something else to justify the

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Speaker 1: fact that they were always paranoid because they've grown up

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Speaker 1: under the shade of constant imminent nuclear annihilation and the

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Speaker 1: New World or they're troubled. Yeah, yeah, exactly. This is

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Speaker 1: are having a tough time. And this is what Bill

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Speaker 1: taps into is the fact that all of these guys

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Speaker 1: know that everything, like I can't not expect the end

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Speaker 1: to come at any moment. And once the Soviet Union ends.

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Speaker 1: They can't just lose that anxiety, right like they and

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Speaker 1: and then they need an explanation for like, why don't

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Speaker 1: I feel better now that the Soviets are gone? Could

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Speaker 1: it be that up? Most of the problems that people

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Speaker 1: were blaming on the Soviets were actually just like the

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Speaker 1: fact that my own culture is fucked up and we

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Speaker 1: need to deal with No, no, no, there's a different conspiracy.

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Speaker 1: It's not the communist conspiracy. It's another one. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: Bill was savvy enough to see that he was watching

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Speaker 1: the birth of a new movement in American culture, and

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Speaker 1: he knew that movement was going to need a bible,

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Speaker 1: and so in nineteen ninety he sat down to write

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Speaker 1: One Behold a Pale Horse, would be published in nineteen

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Speaker 1: one through bizarre little new age occult press called Light

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Speaker 1: Technology Publishing. The book itself was four hundred and thirty

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Speaker 1: four pages of documents and memos, all purported to be

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Speaker 1: top secret missives from inside the secret Government working to

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Speaker 1: bring about the new World Order. The centerpiece of it all,

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Speaker 1: the primary document upon which Bill hung his ideology, was

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Speaker 1: called Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, which is another great title.

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Speaker 1: Say both of these kicked the ship out of the

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Speaker 1: title of Bible. Yeah, fuck the Bible, I mean behold

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Speaker 1: of pale horses from the Bible kind of but yeah,

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Speaker 1: so uh yeah. Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars Bill claimed

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Speaker 1: it was an introductory programming model for new employees of

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Speaker 1: Operations Research, a secret military intelligence organization tasked with preparing

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Speaker 1: the country for authoritarian rule. And the document opens with

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Speaker 1: welcome aboard and informs its reader that they are will

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Speaker 1: be taking part in the Third World War, which has

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Speaker 1: been going on for decades and involves the use of

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Speaker 1: silent weapons on an unsuspecting public. I'm gonna quote now

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Speaker 1: from pale horse writer written at the level of an

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Speaker 1: undergrad paper and electrical engineering. Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars

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Speaker 1: defines a silent weapon as differing from a conventional weapon

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Speaker 1: in that it shoots situations instead of bullets, originating from

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Speaker 1: bits of data instead of grains of gunpowder, and attacks

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Speaker 1: under the orders of a banking magnate instead of a

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Speaker 1: military general. Because the silent weapon causes no obvious physical

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Speaker 1: or mental injuries and does not obviously interfere with anyone's

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Speaker 1: daily social life, the public cannot comprehend this weapon and

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Speaker 1: therefore cannot believe that they are being attacked and subdued.

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Speaker 1: The public might instinctively feel that something is wrong, but

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Speaker 1: because of the technical nature of the silent weapon, they

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Speaker 1: cannot express their feeling in a rational way. They do

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Speaker 1: not know how to cry for help, and do not

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Speaker 1: know how to associate with others to defend themselves against it. Huh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can see why this, um, this is attractive to

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Speaker 1: some people. Yeah, yeah, and it's I mean, now, it

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Speaker 1: sounds vaguely familiar, but if I had heard this at

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Speaker 1: the time, would have been like, yeah. Interesting. For a

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Speaker 1: very long time, almost everyone assumed that silent weapons had

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Speaker 1: been created the creation of Bill Cooper himself. He opened

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Speaker 1: the very first episode of his radio series, The Hour

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Speaker 1: of the Time by reading from this, and his favorite

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Speaker 1: line to repeat was a lightened from the papers stating

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Speaker 1: that uninformed Americans were beasts of burden and steaks on

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Speaker 1: the table by choice and consent. Um. He would say

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Speaker 1: it in nearly every episode. Okay, so he's got he's

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Speaker 1: got that branding. The reality, though, is that Bill was

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Speaker 1: something of a middleman for bringing silent weapons into mass awareness.

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Speaker 1: The whole paper had actually been cooked up by Hartford

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Speaker 1: Van Dyke, a convicted counterfeitter who would essentially cobbled the

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Speaker 1: thing together himself from bits written by other paranoid libertarian thinkers.

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Speaker 1: Um M, paranoid libertarian thinkers are, Yeah, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's interesting. So Bill, you know, silent weapons for quiet

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Speaker 1: Wars is kind of like that that line, and in

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Speaker 1: particular is kind of why Bill adopts the phrase, you know,

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Speaker 1: wake up sheeple um, because like that he was he

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Speaker 1: was referring to a specific thing. Is that like these

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Speaker 1: New World Order people in their own documents, because Bill

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Speaker 1: believes this thing is real. Um, like think that you're

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Speaker 1: your beasts of burden, like they that's how they treat you,

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Speaker 1: and like that's what you are if you're not willing

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Speaker 1: to like wake up and realize that you're being played.

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Speaker 1: Bill was very abusive to his audience, so he would

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Speaker 1: regularly like insult and attack the people listening to him

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Speaker 1: for not sure. It's like if his if his whole

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Speaker 1: thing is if you're not participating in what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: you're a fucking idiot and you're and you're going to

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Speaker 1: be hurt. Like that's a that's a place to start. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: through his book Behold of Pale Behold of Pale Horse,

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Speaker 1: Bill injected a lot of a whole host of now

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Speaker 1: common conspiracy theories into the mainstream, not just his theory

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Speaker 1: about JFK, but postulations that AIDS was one of many

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Speaker 1: secret weapons designed by the US government for use against

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Speaker 1: its own people, actually to wipe out black people in Africa.

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Speaker 1: Um and this, yeah, we'll talk more about that in

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Speaker 1: a little bit. As it turns out, very little in

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Speaker 1: behalor Behold a Pale Horse was original. Bill had just

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Speaker 1: taken a variety of different pamphlets and like hoax papers

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Speaker 1: that had been circulating, you know, over the conspiracy community,

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Speaker 1: and bound them together in a handsome volume with really

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Speaker 1: good cover art. You you should look up the cop

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Speaker 1: book right now to see the cover art. Like it's

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Speaker 1: it's good. Behold the Pale Horse, Yeah cover okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: So all this stuff has been like circulating in sort

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Speaker 1: of conspiracy nut communities, but you'd get it as like

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Speaker 1: you know, somebody handling up Yes, yeah, yeah, it's pretty,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's it's it's well organized, and you know,

401
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Speaker 1: this stuff had been existed for a while, but if

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Speaker 1: you if you came across it, it would be like

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Speaker 1: you'd run into someone's poorly mimiographed copies of Silent Weapons

404
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Speaker 1: for Quiet Wars and a gun show or something next

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Speaker 1: to it, like Nazi flags. And Bill puts them in

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Speaker 1: this really like good cover art, like well bound, like

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Speaker 1: actual book. And this is again still a period of

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Speaker 1: time in which books means something to people. Um. So

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Speaker 1: this ship takes off, and it's a problem that this

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Speaker 1: ship takes off because everything in Bill's book isn't like

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Speaker 1: Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars. Obviously it's nonsense. Um, but

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Speaker 1: it's hard to It's not the most problematic thing in

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Speaker 1: the world. It's just it's just a fake military document. Um.

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Speaker 1: Bill doesn't just include stuff like that, among other things,

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Speaker 1: Behold the Pale Horse includes the entirety of the Protocols

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Speaker 1: of the Elders of Zion. Um. Yeah, okay, I want

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Speaker 1: to say that that escalated, but it really is just

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Speaker 1: an ex logical step, and it's really funny. The way

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Speaker 1: he does it is kind of objectively hilarious. So if

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Speaker 1: you aren't aware, the protocols are probably the most influential

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theory of all time. They purport to be like

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Speaker 1: silent weapons, kind of like a secret document from this

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Speaker 1: organization that got leaked out. And in the case of

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Speaker 1: the protocols, it's this meeting of a group of Jewish

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Speaker 1: elders plotting the overthrow in domination of the gentile world. Now,

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Speaker 1: the reality is that the protocols were a forgery cooked

427
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: up by the Anon Czarist, Russia's equivalent of the c

428
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: I a UM. The protocols like that they were, they

429
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: were basically this Russian intelligence agencies like disinformation plot Um

430
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 1: and UH. They were incredibly successfully took on a life

431
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: of their own, spread all throughout Western Europe UM and

432
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: obviously like helped to spread this kind of specific type

433
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 1: of anti Semitic conspiracy theory all across Europe, and most

434
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 1: of the Nazis actually knew it was a fake um

435
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,959
Speaker 1: and they thought it was a pretty clumsy fake at that,

436
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: but they benefited from the conspiratorial melieu that the protocols

437
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: helped to create in Europe, which like definitely helped to

438
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 1: enable the Holocaust. So the Protocols of the Elders of

439
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: Ziland have Zion maybe have the highest body count of

440
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: any conspiracy theory in history and after World War Two,

441
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 1: you know, for obvious reasons, the protocol is kind of languished.

442
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: People didn't weren't so interested in anti Semitic conspiracy theories

443
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: for a little while. Um yeah, some bad pr for that. Yeah,

444
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: bad pr for anti semitism. Um. So they would only

445
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: really surface when some Yeah yeah, they would pop up

446
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: every now and then, but it was only really like

447
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: neo Nazis who were willing to republish them. Um. And

448
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 1: they never got any kind of white distribution. George Lincoln

449
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: Rockwell was probably like the most prominent guy to try

450
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: to republish the protocols. And yeah, yeah, yeah, so nobody.

451
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: You're right, I didn't even Jamie. Yeah, Jamie's onto something

452
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: in their name where the evil lies. Yeah, and you

453
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: know where the evil doesn't lie, Robert and the products

454
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: and services that support this podcast. Sometimes I'm proud of myself.

455
00:24:51,320 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 1: And yes, yeah, that part all right, we're back. So

456
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: the Protocols of the Elders of zion Um kind of

457
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: languish and obscurity for decades after World War Two. Um yeah,

458
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: nobody really spreads them. They're not popular in the United States,

459
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,239
Speaker 1: They're not particularly well known in the United States, and

460
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: then in nineteen Bill Cooper republishes them in their entirety

461
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: in his book Um And to make it funnier Bill

462
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: Bill was not an avowed anti Semite. Bill definitely believed

463
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: a lot of anti Semitic things, but like it wasn't

464
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: a motivating factor for him. He didn't believe the protocols

465
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: were evidence of a Jewish conspiracy. He thought they were

466
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: the real minutes of an of the Illuminati, basically of

467
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 1: the New World Orders conspiracy theory um. And they've been

468
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: blamed on Jews to throw the world off of their

469
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 1: scent Um. So he really it's even worse to be like,

470
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna throw it in because it seems like

471
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: something that people no, No, he thinks it's true, but

472
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: it's it's not the Jews, it's the New World Order

473
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: and the Jews. The New World Order blamed it on

474
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: the Jews to hide the reality of what was happening.

475
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: So Bill, before he publishes the entirety of the Protocols

476
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: of the Elders of Zion, he runs this note, and

477
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 1: this is the only note he runs with the Protocols

478
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: of the Elders of Zion. Every aspect of this plan

479
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: to subjugate the world has since become reality, validating the

480
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: authenticity of conspiracy. This has been written intentionally to deceive people.

481
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: For clear understanding, the word Zion should be psion. Any

482
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: references to Jews should be replaced with the word Illuminati,

483
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: and the word goum should be replaced with the word cattle.

484
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: So he's like, replace Jews with Illuminati. But this book

485
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: of this, like this anti Semitic conspiracy document is good

486
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: stuff otherwise, right there, Like otherwise it's basically right. But

487
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: just take out yeah, just take out the Jews. And

488
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: I'm not going to take out the Jews myself. You've

489
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: got to do it in your own head. So yeah,

490
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: he's not willing to do any sort of leg where

491
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: he makes it sound like a simple clerical error that

492
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: was made and unfortunate really for the whole world. Behold

493
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: a Pale Horse went on to become the single most

494
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 1: influential underground publishing hit in history. It's sold well over

495
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand copies as of this the publication of

496
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: this episode, but that number vastly understates its influence because

497
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: Behold a Pale Horse was and remains one of the

498
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: most frequently stolen books in the country and in incarcerated

499
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: people across the nation. UM also started passing it along,

500
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: so there will be copies of this still are in

501
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: prisons all over the country that just get like handed

502
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: to people when they come into prison. Um. Yeah, and

503
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: it's it's it's. It spreads through two different chunks of

504
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: the underground community, the kind of right wing militia community

505
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: where you'd expect it, but it also becomes incredibly influential

506
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: among the burgeoning hip hop community of the early nineteen nineties.

507
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: This unpacked for me. Yeah, I don't yeah, we will,

508
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: don't worry. Yeah, So Behold a Pale Horse resurrected the

509
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: protocols of the Elders of Zion UM and it kind

510
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: of laundered them through a lens of general distrust with

511
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: the state of the world, and as a result, Bill

512
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: Cooper was able to ensure that this once obscure tract

513
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: spread by like wildfire among segments of the American population

514
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: it had never reached before, primarily inner city black Americans

515
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: like obviously the kind of people handing out the protocols

516
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 1: the Elders of Zion and the thirties weren't given them

517
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 1: to black people. But now this book starts spreading among

518
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: like a lot of people who are like a lot

519
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: of black men in the inner cities who have this again,

520
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: this this thing that is at the core of Bill

521
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: Cooper's work. They know ship's fucked up, right, um and

522
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: Bill Cooper given, here's a whole book on how everything's

523
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: fucked up, and it happens to include the protocols of

524
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: the Elders of Zion Um and yeah. Uh So as

525
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,719
Speaker 1: this this kind of brings us to, yeah, the thing

526
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: I've been teasing for a while, which is that Bill

527
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: Cooper is one of the most influential white men in

528
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: the history of rap um and Yeah. Biographer Mark Jacobson explains, quote,

529
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one to five thousand and seventy seven

530
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: people were murdered in New York, by far the highest

531
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: two year total in city history. It was the crack play,

532
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: and a new generation arose to speak truth to the

533
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: ongoing trauma of urban life. Many of the rappers who

534
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: emerged during the early nineteen nineties, the Great Wu Tang's

535
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: the Formidable Nas of the Queensbridge Houses were deeply influenced

536
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: by the five Percenters a k a. The Nation of

537
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: Gods and Earth's. The movement had been founded in the

538
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: late nineteen sixties by Clarence Edwards Smith a k A.

539
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: Clarence thirteen X, and eventually Father Allah kicked out of

540
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: Elijah Muhammad's Nation of Islam forget heresy and gambling. Father

541
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: Allah had said that it was necessary for black men

542
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: and women to become lyrical assassins. The tongue was the sword,

543
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: Father Allah said, and when properly sharpened, it could take

544
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: more heads with the word than any army with machine

545
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: guns could never do. And for many lyrical assassins, Bill

546
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: Cooper's Behold a Pale Horse became a key text. Rappers

547
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: who have mentioned Cooper in his book or his book

548
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: include the Wu Tang Clan, Big Daddy, Kane, Busta Rhymes, Tupac, Shakur,

549
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: Talib Quelli, nas Rakim, Poor, Righteous Teachers, Gang Star Goody Mob,

550
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: suicide Boys, Boogie Monsters, Wise Intelligent, public Enemy, Miss math Aslan,

551
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: Lord Allah, ras Cass, and the Lost Children of Babylon,

552
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: who told their listeners to prepare to meet your fate

553
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: like William Cooper when the stormtroopers breach your Gate a

554
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: little bit of foreshadowing there. Um, old, yeah, that's like, yeahbuddy, yeah,

555
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: that's everybody. He's here the fucking One of the first

556
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: albums that the Wu Tang Clan like produces is called

557
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars. Yeah, God is like the

558
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: side thing. It's it's nas, it's nas. I'm sorry, clearly

559
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: I'm not on Mark Jacobson, Bill's biographer, actually talks to

560
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys and like, is really knowledgeable

561
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: about hip hop? I am not, and I apologize. Um,

562
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: that is like old dirty bastard of the Wu Tang

563
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: Clan explained, behold a pale horses appeal better than anyone else.

564
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: Everybody gets fucked. William Cooper tells you who's who's fucking you.

565
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, one of the things he tells these people

566
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: is it's the juice, Like you just have to like

567
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: he said, yeah, yeah, that's an unfortunate aspect of his influence.

568
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: So you can see why black guys in particular, living

569
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: through inner city crime waves and like police, you know,

570
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: crackdowns and violence and stuff, would find documents like Silent

571
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: Weapons for Quiet Wars compelling Bill's framework of conspiracies fit

572
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: in with things that many black folks already believed, like

573
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: that the CIA had introduced crack to the inner cities,

574
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: and there's obviously there's actually a decent amount of truth

575
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: to that. Um In an interview before his own death,

576
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: Prodigy told Mark Jacobson, William Cooper wrote, what everyone kind

577
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: of new, and that's like a big part of his

578
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: influences that he's He's giving people this really cohesive, um

579
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: bound guide to all of the different things, all of

580
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: the like, hey, your life is fucked, Like here's what Like,

581
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: here's you can pick and choose which conspiracy theories you believe,

582
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: explain why, and just by like putting together it sounds

583
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: like the greatest hits, uh conspiracy theories of like hey,

584
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: if this one doesn't work for you, go to the

585
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: next chapter. Maybe this one will work for you. Yeah, okay, okay, yeah,

586
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: And he introduced his new followers to a whole world

587
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: of other conspiracy theories, not just the protocols of the

588
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: Elders of Zion, but some of Bill's more modern paranoia,

589
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: like the idea that AIDS had been created in a

590
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: test to by the US government to wipe out Africans.

591
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: This theory spread like wildfire and even reached Manteo Sha

592
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: la la simoon. Um, I'm gonna pronounce that wrong. I'm

593
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: terribly sorry. South Africa's health minister, the New Republic Rights

594
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: that he quote, while still in office and at the

595
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: height of that country's AIDS crisis, distributed copies of the

596
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: chapter that argue that AIDS was introduced into the African

597
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: population by a global conspiracy with the goal of reducing

598
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: the continents population. Bill Cooper is very influential because well

599
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: it's as is always the case with this ship. We

600
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: can talk. We'll talk about the crack epidemic at some

601
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: point and how they're the real conspiracy there differs somewhat

602
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: from the ones that most people believes. But like the

603
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: basic idea of it is true, which is that um,

604
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: in large part due to the c I a crack

605
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: got to the United States and huge amounts like that,

606
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: they played a major role in getting here. It's just

607
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: a different role than a lot of people think. Um. Likewise,

608
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: the AIDS crisis gets so bad worldwide in large part

609
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: due to the US government's complete refusal to give a

610
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: shit about it. Um. Yeah, it's just not the reason.

611
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: But like something is fucked up there, and people want

612
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: like if you provide people with the convention like a

613
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: compelling theory that ties together what is really just inexplicable

614
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: hatred and and like a lack of fox given about

615
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: huge chunks of the population. Um, yeah, I mean it's

616
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: it's it's I'm not saying it's rational in any way,

617
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: but but for you know, people who already perhaps have

618
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: some held prejudices, who are looking for an explanation to

619
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: something that is like the commonly held truth of like, uh,

620
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: there are things going on in the government that we

621
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: have made not made aware of, very intention annoyed. But

622
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: then it's just like, well, what's a what's a funked

623
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: up reason I could make up for why that may be? Yeah? Yeah,

624
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: So Behold a Pale Horse would probably see its most

625
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 1: lingering impact on the hip hop scene. Um, there's still

626
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 1: actually a modestly popular artist named William Cooper who goes

627
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: by that name today. Um. But Bill's personal popularity as

628
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: a showman would only grow narrower in the years following

629
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: his books publication. The Hour of the Time, his radio

630
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: show earned a sizeable audience for what it was propaganda

631
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: for the nation's growing militia movement, and The Hour of

632
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: the Time did not, although now it is. It is

633
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: a little more. You can find in like a lot

634
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: of fringe SoundCloud rappers and stuff. They'll they'll cut in

635
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: bits of The Hour of the Times, but um, a

636
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: good fringe SoundCloud. I want to play you just a

637
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: segment from one episode. This is the introduction, and this

638
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: is how every single episode of The Hour of the

639
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: Time started. Just you have an idea of kind of

640
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: how Bill show like the emotional tenor it takes right

641
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: from the beginning. Okay, this does sound like sand clock,

642
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: rab and chess. It's so long. Yeah, it's really long.

643
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: Oh I think I saw I heard Santa Claus. I

644
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: don't like it. Oh, dog the dog, up the dog.

645
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: What you have just heard listeners all over the world

646
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: is warning, and you will hear this warning from here

647
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: on out. You've been listening to your leaders tell you

648
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 1: that there's a great move towards democracy in the world.

649
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 1: You witnessed the parting of the Iron Curtain, the fall

650
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 1: of the Balloon Wall, the fracturing of the Soviet Union,

651
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: and this is all supposedly toward a new worldwide democracy.

652
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: Democracy is a code word for socialism, and that's why

653
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: our forefathers established a republic. Okay, so you can I

654
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: just love imagining flipping on that set on the radio

655
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 1: by accident, just like barking dogs and like trumpict. Yeah,

656
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: but you also hear like Bill's delivery. He's he's figured

657
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: out how to be a radio host in this time. Yeah,

658
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: he's definitely improved. Yeah, his cadence is really good. He

659
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: knows how to like it's he knew how to He

660
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: knew how to put together a radio show. He would

661
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: also put in like he would broadcast like entire songs

662
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: that were like kind of popular songs that fit in

663
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: with the theme of like what he was saying that episode,

664
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: Like he would have like musical interludes and ship. He

665
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: was a good broadcaster, um and he like yeah he was.

666
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: He was able to um draw in a lot of listeners,

667
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: maybe even for a lot of folks who wouldn't have

668
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: listened to most other people in kind of like the

669
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: crazy militia person radio sphere. Um. And as a result,

670
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: his work still resonates today, but unfortunately not with a

671
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: group of people. Bill would have been happy to resonate

672
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: with um. If you look up on where that that

673
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: SoundCloud link I sent you. Um, it's hosted by someone

674
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 1: named conscious Sounds. Uh. They have twenty followers. And look

675
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: at that photoshop logo that they designed for Bill's show

676
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: that wasn't his. No notice the Israeli flag sandwiched right

677
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: in between George W. Bush and Osama bin Laden and

678
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: then the watermark Iron Volke, iron Reich printed at the

679
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: bottom of the mh okay I did it's not it's not.

680
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, these guys they're learning there's Nazis who are

681
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: trying to be a little bit subtle about it. And

682
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: I think they see they kind of recognize Bill Cooper

683
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: is a good way to get people kind of on

684
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: board with once you once you're listening to Bill Cooper,

685
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: you can be convinced that like, actually he was wrong

686
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: when he said it wasn't the Jews, Like because you

687
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: already believe all this stuff, you just replace them with Illuminati.

688
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: We just got to switch the Jews back in there,

689
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: and then you're good to go. Um, yeah, fucking dark.

690
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: It's weird because yeah, Bill again was absolutely whatever else

691
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: you can say about him, and again it's mostly negative.

692
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: He wasn't a Nazi, although he did work in the

693
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: company of Nazis the hour of the time. Has that

694
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: improved the situation? Well, he just catered to Nazis and

695
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: worked with them free. He didn't he I don't think

696
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: he catered to them. We'll listen to something in a bit.

697
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: You may change your mind about that. He's more complicated

698
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: than that. But he He was broadcast by the shortwave

699
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: radio station w w c R UM and by the

700
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: time Bill got into his groove, his his competition were

701
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: guys and what's called the Patriot Community UM basically early

702
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 1: preppers UM, including two guys named Chuck Harder and Tom

703
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: Valentine UM and and Bill didn't get along with either

704
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: UM for a number of reasons. One of them is

705
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: that Valentine had a better primetime slot than his He

706
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: was nine to eleven PM. Uh yeah. But also valentine

707
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: show was sponsored by The Spotlight, which was Willis Carto's

708
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: Liberty Lobbies Holocaust denial newsletter. We talked about that in

709
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: the War on everyone some yeah. UM. Other competition included

710
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: like celebrity host guys like William Pearce did radio stuff

711
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: in this time, UM, you know, g Gordon Liddy and

712
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: stuff like would be on the same network. So Bill

713
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 1: is kind of in and among a bunch of like

714
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: really bad dudes right like his his the other people

715
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: who are kind of on the radio in and around

716
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: him are like very violent and often have ties to Nazis. Um.

717
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: Like fucking William Pierce is a guest on some of

718
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: the shows that are that are hosted in and around

719
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: Bill show. Bill himself was probably the most palatable individual

720
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: personality in the patriot movement at this stage, because he

721
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: was like he was kind of the first person in

722
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: this movement. Like everyone's talking about the boogleoo movement and

723
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: whether or not it's racist, and like a lot of

724
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: these guys focus on like no, we're you know, we're

725
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 1: pro gun and we're we're libertarians, but we're like anti

726
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: racist and stuff. Bill was the first guy in right

727
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,240
Speaker 1: wing media to thread that needle. Um. He was really

728
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 1: the first one to do it in like a practical way, um.

729
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: And this helped broaden the appeal of the early malicious

730
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: scene and the patriot movement whatever you wanna call it,

731
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: by drawing in these more libertarian Americans who wouldn't have

732
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 1: listened to a show that was putting fucking William Pierce

733
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: on but would listen to Bill Cooper, Well, it's it

734
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 1: sounds like the fucking YouTube algorithm, where it's like, Okay,

735
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: here's something that is like, you know, a little like

736
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: it's some stuff, you know, and then some radical ideas

737
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: being snuck in and Okay, this is a familiar this

738
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: is a familiar model, I guess. Yeah. And and Bill

739
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: himself did go to like when I say that he

740
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: wasn't a Nazi, I don't think I'm giving him too

741
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: much credit here. And for an example of like why

742
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: I think that, I want to play a segment from

743
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,959
Speaker 1: one of Bill's relatively few shows that touched on race

744
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: to a significant extent. And this was the episode that

745
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: he put out in the immediate wake of the LA

746
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: riots um which were of course sparked by the acquittal

747
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: of the cops who beat the ship out of Rodney King. Right,

748
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: that happens, and you get the l A Riots. And

749
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: here's Bill Cooper's part of Bill Cooper's response to the

750
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: LA Riots. The entire nations in the world had been

751
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: viewing an amateur videotape that had been taken on the scene,

752
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: which showed over fifty blows. I believe the correct number

753
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: was fifty six blows in eighty seconds to a man

754
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: who was lying on the ground, who had no weapon,

755
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: who posed no threat, who did not attack anyone during

756
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: this term. But nevertheless, fifties six blows from clubs what

757
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: the office is called the turns. That's a polite name

758
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 1: for a club a stick. Can I believe no one

759
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: believed if those officers would be firm innocent? Okay, that

760
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: is that is not what I would have expected from him, right, No,

761
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: that's that's a pretty reasonable thing to say about the

762
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: Rodney King beatings. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's basically the only way,

763
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: like an honest person could could, which Bill was not.

764
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: But he you can't really fault what he's saying there. Um,

765
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 1: And he went on like he went on to complain

766
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: about the looting and rioting by people in Los Angeles

767
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: and say that, like, you know, it was they were

768
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: making a really dumb call by like destroying their own neighborhoods.

769
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: But he's catering to boomers, of course. Yeah. He reserved

770
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: the bulk of his anger for white Americans, as embodied

771
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: by his listeners telling them a quote, when you sit

772
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 1: in front of your television on Friday and Saturday night

773
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 1: and watch cops, Top Cops, Lady cops, Cops, swat cops,

774
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: detective cops, Grandma cops. You watch them break down doors

775
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: without identifying themselves, without a search warrant, without a court order,

776
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: rip people's mattresses apart, throw up away their clothes. If

777
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 1: they don't find anything, all they have to do is

778
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: drop a little bag of white powder. You sit there

779
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: cheering them on. Get those scummies so and so's, And

780
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: the reason you do it is because you're watching. It

781
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: happened to blacks, to minorities, poor white trash, Puerto Ricans,

782
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,959
Speaker 1: everyone who was a threat to you. So like Bill

783
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: wasn't the always He wasn't always the guy you expected

784
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: him to be, right. That was one of the things

785
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: that makes him interesting is like he would there would

786
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: be these moments where you'd like, be okay, Bill is

787
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: going to have like a real fucked up take, and

788
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: be like, no, he was kind of He was more

789
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: or less right about that. This one, Bill pretty firdly

790
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: comes down on the right side of history. Now. He

791
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: also went on to complain that the judge who acquitted

792
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 1: those LAPD cops was a Mason and like like the thread, Yeah,

793
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: so you started strong. Yeah, but you can see you

794
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: can see a lot of the same kind of discourse

795
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: and the same the same style that like the same

796
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: kind of ideological statements that are being made by like

797
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: the boogaloo folks today, right like, um, you know, yeah,

798
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: Bill sounds a lot like a lot of the fucking

799
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: guys that was watching on Facebook and the immediate wake

800
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: of the George Floyd protests, he would have been well

801
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: at home in that organization or in that not organization,

802
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: but in that that community. Um. Now, in his role

803
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 1: as the voice of America's new militia movement, Bill saw

804
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: his main duty as warning good conservative Americans that the

805
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: government and the form of socialist politicians was coming to

806
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: disarm them as a prelude to tyranny and mass to population.

807
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: Bill Show popularized the conspiracy theory that the US government

808
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: stages mass shootings in order to drum up support for

809
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,479
Speaker 1: gun control. And this was before the Columbine shooting. Bill

810
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: starts this conspiracy theory off in the United States, and

811
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna the next thing I went have you play

812
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: is Bill reading a passage of his book on the air.

813
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,919
Speaker 1: In n So again, this is what seven years before

814
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: Columbying and like twenty something years before the Sandy Hook shootings.

815
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: In that conspiracy starts here, here's Bill laying the groundwork

816
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 1: for all of that ship. The government encouraged the manufacture

817
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: and importation of military firearms for the criminals to use.

818
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: This is intended to foster a feeling of insecurity which

819
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: would lead the American people to voluntarily disarmed themselves by

820
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: passing laws against firearms, using drugs and hypnosis on mental

821
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: patients in a process called O'Ryan, the CIA and cultated

822
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: the desire in these people to open fire on schoolyards

823
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: and thus inflame the anti gun lobby. This plan is

824
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: well under way and so far is working perfectly. The

825
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: middle class is begging the government to do away with

826
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 1: the Second Amendment. So Bill starts that mass shootings are

827
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: a government conspiracy, conspiracy theory and fucking ninety one. Um, yeah,

828
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: what do you make of that? That's amazing? That is

829
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: I know, I'm just like I'm trying to build really

830
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: ahead of it's his time. Um, and he knew what

831
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 1: would take off because obviously this conspiracy theory takes off,

832
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: and if you look at the YouTube video. It was

833
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 1: like a YouTube video of people being like see Bill

834
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: Cooper revealed the government's planned to stage mass shootings. Yeah,

835
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: it couldn't have been a lucky guess because file cabinet. Yeah. Interesting, Okay,

836
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: So Bill had a real gift for weaving far fetched

837
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: fantasies about the Illuminati and mind control weapons and with

838
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: down to work, earth like folksy rants about modernity. Like

839
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 1: that was his gift. As he would take this crazy

840
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: shit and he would weave it into real shit. And

841
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: it would it would it would that that draws people in.

842
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: Like he didn't. He didn't, He didn't sound the same

843
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: way it again, that guy with like a box full

844
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: of like photographed z or mimiographed zeems at a gun

845
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: show seems like right like it there there's like a

846
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: grounded nous to it that you don't usually get. I

847
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 1: do kind of wonder, I mean, because you were saying

848
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: like he just like spoke NonStop for years, like I

849
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: mean for everything like this. That feels kind of like

850
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: a wow. Maybe he you know, this was a pretty

851
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:29,240
Speaker 1: like you know, valid comment. How many hundreds of bullshit

852
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: that makes no sense? Um to counter that? Yeah, I

853
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 1: mean Bill was was every day of his life was bullshit.

854
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: That was that happened. And then I mean, if if

855
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: you talk that much bullshit, you're bound to hit on

856
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 1: something useful every once in a while. Yeah, I mean

857
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: it's and it's not like, well, I mean it's not

858
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: something that's true because obviously mass shootings are a product

859
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: of a wide variety of unhealthy things in our culture.

860
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: And I don't think any reasonable person thinks the government

861
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: is even competent enough to fake that sort of thing.

862
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: But just hitting on the idea that it would be

863
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: an appealing idea, Well that that's what he understands, is

864
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: like what what people want to believe? And he what

865
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: people need is like, here's this real problem mass shootings.

866
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,919
Speaker 1: We need to explain you know, the soaring violent crime

867
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: rate in the early nineties. I need to explain it

868
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: with something that blames it on but like makes it

869
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: a part of this conspiracy. Like that was Bill's talent

870
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: is weaving that ship together, um, and he would do

871
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: it by like yeah, Um. One of I think the

872
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: most revealing rants that he put together that sort of

873
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: shows you his appeal was was him sort of complaining

874
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: about automobiles. He stated, I've gone from driving automobiles that

875
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: I could take apart and put together blindfolded by myself

876
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 1: as a teenager, to cars that I can lift the

877
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,359
Speaker 1: hood on and not even recognize most of what I'm

878
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,399
Speaker 1: looking at, except that I know it's an engine in there,

879
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: some kind of system that ignites the fuel. And this

880
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: was like Bill was basically taking with this sort of thing,

881
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 1: these kind of feelings of inadequacy that we're very common

882
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 1: and increasingly common. And this chunk of American men who's

883
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: like jobs, good factory jobs, one that had been eliminated,

884
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: these guys where a lot of them lived in like

885
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: rural communities that were very rapidly dying as the country

886
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: increasingly urbanized. Um, so he would take these feelings of

887
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: like being bowled over by the complexity of modern technology

888
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: and feeling left behind, so would weave them into this

889
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: conspiracy about the new world order. As his biographer notes,

890
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 1: Bill basically argued that stuff like, you know, the increasing

891
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: complexity of automobile engines wasn't just a factor of developing technology.

892
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: It was quote one more way the controllers separated you

893
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: from the utility of your person. This was how silent

894
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: weapons work. How they stuck the dunce cap of helplessness

895
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: on your head. And a big part of Bill's appeal

896
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: was that he provided his listeners with a way to

897
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 1: feel as if they were part of the solution, actually

898
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: fighting back against this new world order, rather than just

899
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: sitting helplessly and watching it eat everything. Uh. He created

900
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: the Citizens Agency for Joint Intelligence or CADGY, which Bill

901
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: marketed as a sort of volunteer civilian answer to the

902
00:49:52,680 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: CIA or the FBI. Yeah, citizen Joint intelligence. Citizen Agency

903
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: for Joint Intelligence. Yeah, I mean I both made the same.

904
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: Any of his listeners could join CADGY and start collecting

905
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: and submitting intelligence would which Bill would read on air

906
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: if he liked it. And so this had a couple

907
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: of benefits. Never one let his listeners feel like they

908
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: were part of this like insurgent movement fighting back against

909
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: the new world order, and it filled up airtime because

910
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: Bill could just read bullshit that his audience sent in

911
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,399
Speaker 1: as if it was intelligence that his agency had brought

912
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: another like twenty four hour news cycle, A little head

913
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 1: of the curve there. It's very smart, very smart, And

914
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: CAGY wasn't just like an institute off on its own.

915
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: It was the intelligence wing of the Second Continental Army,

916
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: which Bill claimed was a secret nationwide militia dedicated to

917
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: the preservation of the values that the US had been

918
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: founded under. Bill refused to give up the name of

919
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: the commanding general of this August Force because it was him,

920
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: but many of the promotion papers that he handed out

921
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: were signed by George Washington. Yeah, it was always like,

922
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: really k g about who was in charge. It was

923
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: obvious was built. Yeah, because it was him. Yeah, because

924
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: it was him, he was the whole army. Yeah. But

925
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: then he's like, but who knows. It's hard to say. Yeah. So,

926
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 1: over his years on the air, Cooper engaged in a

927
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: number of objectively ridiculous stunts, like all right wing ideal logus.

928
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: Bill Nurson abiding hate for the mainstream media, but he

929
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: tried to do something about it, organizing his listeners in

930
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: a scheme to buy up millions of shares of Ghanet Media,

931
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: owner of USA Today. And the plan was that all

932
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: of his listeners would buy enough of Ghanette Media to

933
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: have a controlling voting interest um and then they would

934
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: basically put Bill in charge, and he would fire everyone

935
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 1: who didn't want to put out right wing propaganda. It

936
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: didn't it didn't work. No, but christ yeah, you know what,

937
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: will buy up all of the shares of Ghanett Media

938
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: to put out right wing propaganda the products and services

939
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 1: that support this podcast. Oh I hope, so yeah, and

940
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 1: we're back um okay so uh. In nineteen four, Bill

941
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: threw his support behind the newly formed Constitution Party, which

942
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: had been made by some Hollywood libertarian dude. I think

943
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: it was part of a grift, but anyway, U. Bill

944
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: announced his like new membership and support of this movement,

945
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: essentially acting as it's like the voice of the Constitution

946
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 1: Party by announcing America is no longer a two party country,

947
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. Um. Problems obviously cropped up almost immediately.

948
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: The chief issue was that Bill and the party he

949
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: joined were pretty much straight up libertarians. Meanwhile, many of

950
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: his listeners were hard right religious nutfox uh. They hated

951
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: two major planks of the Constitution Party, which were and again, Jamie,

952
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,919
Speaker 1: this is another place where you'll be surprised legal legal

953
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: abortion and the right to be homosexual. Um. And in

954
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,720
Speaker 1: another surprising turn, Bill took to the airwaves to defend

955
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 1: both planks on the matter of abortion. He said, we

956
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: are firm ladies and gentlemen. God put us here to

957
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,359
Speaker 1: make choices, and the moral choices the woman's. And if

958
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: she fries in what some of you would call hell

959
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: for eternity, that is her choice. For it is she

960
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: who will fry. But it's not. But it is not

961
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 1: the business of the state to say yes, no, maybe,

962
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 1: or anything. But it's a woman's choice. Like he's he's

963
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: he's whatever, Okay, I mean him being like, you know what,

964
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: let the lady burn in hell if she wants to.

965
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: I don't guess saying that. I think he's saying that,

966
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 1: like if you think she's going to hell, it doesn't matter,

967
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 1: Like it's still not the states, but it's not the

968
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: state's business to say if she does it or not. Right.

969
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: I actually don't think Bill cared at all about abortion, clearly,

970
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: I mean clearly not there I can't. I mean, it's like,

971
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: you know, personally, you know, we don't we don't claim

972
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: this man, but I guess it's nice to not have

973
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:02,399
Speaker 1: him actively against reproductive rights. That's yeah, it's with this guy.

974
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: It says a lot that that, like he has to

975
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 1: yell at his listeners over ship like this because like

976
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 1: they're all such bigots, um, and Bill is just not

977
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: quite as bad Um, and actually like his defensive bigotry

978
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: a little more focused in yeah, yeah, I mean he

979
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 1: just hates the government. That's really Bill's whole thing is

980
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 1: he hates the government and wants wants to destroy it

981
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 1: because he thinks it's an evil quasi Satanist conspiracy. Um,

982
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 1: it's weird. He's a weird guy. Like his defensive homosexual

983
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: homosexuality was actually like pretty good, um telling. He told

984
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: his very religious listeners quote, the most you can never

985
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: hope to do is force them back into the closets

986
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: so that you cannot see them, and then you will

987
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: be living a lie, just as we have been living

988
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 1: lies throughout our history. And lies must stop. Which is

989
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: interesting because he's also he's he's still putting the like

990
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: it's your you who will be living a lie by

991
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: denying these people exist, and like that's why you shouldn't

992
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 1: do it. It's a weird defense of not criminalizing gay people.

993
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: Um builds a weird guy. There's a lot of like

994
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 1: moments like that with him, where it's like what the

995
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: funk are you? Yeah, and I don't want to be

996
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: washing him here because these are like, these areas where

997
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 1: he's surprisingly decent um kind of just have been used

998
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: sometimes by folks to obscure the fact that he was

999
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: fundamentally a man who believed that anything that vaguely smacked

1000
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 1: of socialism was tyranny and had to be violently opposed

1001
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: by men with guns. Um. And so while he would

1002
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: be doing stuff like saying, hey, it's fine if you're gay,

1003
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: he would also be saying, you should have as many

1004
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: guns as possible so that you can kill people who

1005
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: try to, I don't know, give healthcare to folks. Like

1006
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: what Yeah, okay, I I mean I still hate the man,

1007
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: but you should. But but there are some there are

1008
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 1: some twists here there. Yeah, it is, I mean, do

1009
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 1: you think it is just like it has to do

1010
00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: with like he wants to keep the focus on what

1011
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: he really cares about, and it's like, you know kind

1012
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: of like okay, like I get that this is something

1013
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: that bothers you, but like, don't worry about that, ye

1014
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,959
Speaker 1: worry about like look over here, this is my show,

1015
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 1: and we're worrying about the things that I hate. God,

1016
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: you have a radio show. You can hate your own ship.

1017
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: There's a there's a shitty radio show for that other

1018
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 1: hateful thing, you think on the same network. Like you

1019
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: don't have to wait long. Oh yeah, you don't like it,

1020
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,800
Speaker 1: wait forty five minutes. Yeah. Bill's show hosted an eighteen

1021
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: hour long series called Treason, making the case that US

1022
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: government officials were committing a daily barrage of unconstitutional acts

1023
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: that demanded some sort of response. Um. He also told

1024
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,760
Speaker 1: his listeners to watch two thousand one of Space Odyssey

1025
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 1: because it included secret messages hidden by the illuminati. Um yeah, um.

1026
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: And this is like this is the thing you're here

1027
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,320
Speaker 1: in Q and on stuff. Now, there's this like widespread

1028
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 1: belief that like the Cabal, this like elite group of

1029
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 1: Satanic demon worshippers hide like the secrets of their Like

1030
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: there's all these weird Hollywood movies that are real, Like

1031
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: the Bourne Identity is like there's act like there's real,

1032
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:13,879
Speaker 1: Like it is like fundamentally real. It's just yeah, yeah,

1033
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,439
Speaker 1: because the the elite have to hide the truth about

1034
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: what they're doing in plain sight. It's this thing that

1035
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: they need to do. Um. And Bill thought that it

1036
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: was because of like this weird kind of occult tradition

1037
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: that where you basically have to in order to like

1038
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: provide power to your occult rituals, you have to like

1039
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: tell people about the evil things you're doing in the open,

1040
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: and so like they would hide all this stuff in Hollywood.

1041
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: Like that was an innovation of Bills. That is like

1042
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: one of the things that the core of Q went

1043
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: on today. And he's the first guy to be like

1044
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 1: and it was Billy with Billy Bailey. He would watch

1045
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: a movie he liked and then would be like, and

1046
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: here's why, Like this is reveal some truth about the Illuminati.

1047
00:57:54,520 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: Conspiracy is the thing Alex Jones does too. Um yeah. Now,

1048
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: it was the Waco siege that really made Bill Cooper,

1049
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: the multi week assault by the A t F and

1050
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: the FBI on a peaceful religious compound in the middle

1051
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: of nowhere. It was exactly the kind of violent overreach

1052
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 1: that he'd spent his career warning people about. It was

1053
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: like the perfect thing for Bill Cooper to focus on, right,

1054
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: Like he's been saying for years, the government's going to

1055
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: come to like kill all Christians and stuff and you know,

1056
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 1: institute this new world order. And here they go after

1057
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: this compound of weirdos in the middle of nowhere, Texas.

1058
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: Um So, for weeks, Bill would you know, basically tell

1059
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: his listeners that Waco was a test case to see

1060
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: if Americans would put up with the n w o's

1061
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,520
Speaker 1: plans to eliminate millions of people. Um, like they're seeing

1062
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: if you're going to rise up. You know, if a

1063
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: bunch of militiamen would just show up at Waco and

1064
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: like stand around it, they would back off and like

1065
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: then you know, we could we could turn the tide.

1066
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: But of course nobody was willing to actually do that.

1067
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 1: Um So, for weeks, Bill would cover the federal government's

1068
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: treachery and when the real victim like in you know,

1069
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: the government, by the way, was committing a ton of

1070
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 1: horrible crimes Waco, Like the whole thing was one horrible

1071
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: crime pretty much. Yeah, this is like, you know, attached

1072
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: to something where it's like, well, yeah, there is something

1073
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: clearly very bad going on here. Um yeah. Yeah. But

1074
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 1: he would also because he was a liar, it wasn't

1075
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: enough the actual funded up ship that was going on,

1076
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: so he would he would like he invented this claim

1077
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: that the FBI had sent in tainted milk that had

1078
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 1: killed two children um, which he would repeat for weeks,

1079
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: which is like there had no basis in fact, Um,

1080
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: it wasn't necessary because the FBI killed seventies something children

1081
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 1: at Waco, Like you don't have to lie about tainted milk.

1082
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: They burnt kids to death, Like it's not it's not

1083
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: necessary Bill. Um. He was also adamant that David Koresh

1084
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: was monogamous and does not play around on his wife,

1085
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: which is what's the point. I think that's like mon

1086
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: he had. Koresh had to be a good guy, and

1087
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: the people at Waco had to be like fundamentally heroic

1088
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 1: rather than like a bunch of flawed and fucked up

1089
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: people themselves who still didn't deserved to be burnt alive. Yeah.

1090
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 1: So obviously Bill was as horrified as the rest of

1091
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: the world when the David Koresh that David Koresh was

1092
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: not just defending David Koresh but picking to Hill, David

1093
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 1: Koresh was faithful to his wife, Like that's what we

1094
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: all know about David. He didn't a ton of random women.

1095
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, I mean, especially since we all

1096
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 1: know David Koresh had incredible abs. I mean, just stop

1097
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: David Koresh's abs were as cut as Bernard Sanders was

1098
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: good at shooting people in a moving vehicle. Cut my

1099
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: own beanie baby's arm off. This is so stressful. So

1100
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:47,919
Speaker 1: Bill was as horrified as the rest of the nation

1101
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 1: when the FBI's final raid on the Branch Davidian compound

1102
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,439
Speaker 1: ended in you know, dozens of children burning to death.

1103
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: Um in just horrible, horrible, literal war crime. Um. Yeah.

1104
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 1: On his first broadcast back after the siege, Bill opened

1105
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: the show by declaring, America the Beautiful is no more.

1106
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: He told his listeners that the second battle of the

1107
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 1: Second American Revolution had ended, and folks, we lost. The

1108
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: first battle was Ruby Ridge, So I mean, you know

1109
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 1: it it that was you know, Waco was. One of

1110
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: the things that's interesting about Waco is that for a

1111
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: lot of people who had been kind of reflexively pro

1112
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 1: America and pro the government just because it was America

1113
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: and they were kind of like patriotic bumble fox, um,

1114
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 1: Waco was the thing broke a lot of them. Um.

1115
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 1: And there's it's like like it's kind of the foundational

1116
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: movement of the patriot movement in the militia movement that

1117
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 1: exists with US today. For there's a reason the Boogaloo

1118
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: boys put the names of like the Weavers who died

1119
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 1: at Ruby Ridge um and share Waco meetings so much.

1120
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: It's because, like this is where that starts. This is

1121
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 1: where like the insurge right in this country really starts

1122
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 1: to grow. And Bill Cooper is the one nursing it.

1123
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: Like the violent right had not been a big thing

1124
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 1: since the end of World War two that had really

1125
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 1: put an into it. Pretty much like you've had the

1126
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: KKK in some parts of the South during the Civil

1127
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: Rights movement, but like not an insurgent force aimed at

1128
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 1: overthrowing the government. That that starts now, and Bill Cooper

1129
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: is its first profit right um, Like he's directly saying,

1130
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 1: like you the listeners are like part of a war

1131
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: against your government now because of Waco. Oh yeah, yeah, okay,

1132
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: I mean and and it's unfortunately, like you can see

1133
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: what he's like creating these pins for people that you

1134
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 1: can understand why people are taking the opportunity. I mean,

1135
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 1: whether if you believe Bill Cooper, the only thing to

1136
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 1: do is kill people in the government, is murder members

1137
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 1: of the government. And by the way, his most famous

1138
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 1: listener decides to do just that. Becau is. Bill's biggest

1139
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 1: fan in this period of time was a young military

1140
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: veteran named Tim McVeigh. Yeah, yeah, Timmy McVeigh. Baby, yeah uh,

1141
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 1: Tim McVeigh. Always a pleasure when we get to you, Timmy.

1142
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: So Tim loved Tim loved the hour of the time,

1143
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: and then the months prior to the Oklahoma City bombing,

1144
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: there's even evidence that he visited Bill Cooper's, the place

1145
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 1: where Bill Cooper recorded, and like met with Bill Cooper

1146
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 1: um and like this almost certainly happened. It's it's pretty

1147
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 1: widely believed, and the most credible version of the story

1148
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 1: suggests that basically Bill was kind of sketched out. It

1149
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: was like Tim and some other guy and they were

1150
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 1: like clearly weird and unhinged. And Tim asked him, like,

1151
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 1: if I get stopped by a cop, should I shoot

1152
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 1: him rather than accept a speeding ticket? And Bill was like, no,

1153
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 1: you shouldn't shoot a man over a speeding ticket. But like, yeah,

1154
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 1: it's this really sketchy story where like there are a

1155
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: couple of people who were around Bill at the time.

1156
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 1: While we're like, yeah, this guy who after the Oklahoma

1157
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 1: City bombing, we all recognized as Tim McVeigh came by

1158
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:06,439
Speaker 1: and was like, I'm your biggest fan, Bill and asked

1159
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 1: him weird questions about shooting cops. Um. And it's worth

1160
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 1: noting that the reason Tim got caught is that he

1161
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 1: got pulled over driving away from Oklahoma City and he

1162
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 1: had a gun on him and chose not to shoot

1163
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: the officer who was pulling him over, which is why

1164
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: he got caught. So wow, So listening to Bill is

1165
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: what got him caught. It's saved one guy's life and

1166
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 1: got like a hundred and sixty eight other people killed. Well,

1167
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we talked a lot about Tim McVay

1168
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 1: in the War on Everyone. There was a shipload going

1169
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 1: on in Tim mcveah's ideological development, including a lot of

1170
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: Nazis ship. I think people do tend to put too

1171
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 1: much of the blame on Bill, but in the immediate

1172
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 1: wake of the bombing, Bill actually does get a lot

1173
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: of the blame just because he It kind of immediately

1174
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 1: comes out that Tim mcveigh's favorite radio host is this

1175
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 1: like right wing nut job Bill Cooper. Like I think

1176
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: the President mentions Bill Cooper and stuff, so like Bill

1177
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 1: becomes Bill gets a lot of the immediate blame for

1178
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 1: radicalizing Tim McVey when really things like the Turner Diaries

1179
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: that like, there's a lot of other things, I mean,

1180
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 1: for people who are inclined to agree with Tim McVey.

1181
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 1: A lot of free press. Yeah, yeah, it is. It

1182
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 1: is a lot of free press. And it's yeah, it's

1183
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 1: an interesting tale. Um. So when McVeigh, you know, did

1184
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 1: that thing that McVeigh did, Bill Cooper immediately knew what

1185
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 1: was really going on. This was not you know, a

1186
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 1: right wing militia dude carrying Bill's ideas to their logical

1187
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 1: extent and declaring war on the government, which is what

1188
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 1: actually happened. Uh, this was a false flag attack aimed

1189
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 1: at taking down the militia movement and justifying a government crackdown. Um,

1190
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:41,680
Speaker 1: which is actually kind of the obvious opposite of what

1191
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 1: happened really, but yeah, um so Bill had one of

1192
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:47,520
Speaker 1: his cadgy agents start collecting stories for a book on

1193
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 1: the first twenty four hours after the blast to document

1194
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 1: how the media spun events to fit their narrative, and

1195
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 1: they actually like published up like put together like this

1196
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 1: whole gigantic book about the first day after Oklahoma City

1197
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 1: that they thought was going to be like the new

1198
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: the next you know, the the rightful follow up to

1199
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: Behold a Pale Horse, But nobody bought it because it

1200
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 1: was like boring and dumb. Um. Yeah. Now, Bill grew

1201
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: increasingly unhinged in the days and weeks after the Oklahoma

1202
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 1: City bombing. He warned his listeners that the end was nigh. Uh.

1203
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 1: He told them that mock American cities were being built

1204
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: in the desert for the military to train in to

1205
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 1: prepare to like purge the United States of dissidents. Uh.

1206
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 1: He'd started talking about black helicopters circling areas with too

1207
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 1: high up population of real Americans, and of course he

1208
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 1: started talking about FEMA camps being set up to incarceerate

1209
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 1: a newly disarmed American populace um. Yeah. And of course

1210
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: a big part of it for for Bill is that

1211
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 1: like the government's going to use the whole militia thing

1212
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: as an excuse to take our guns. And they did

1213
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 1: pass an assault weapons ban not too long after this,

1214
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: So like there's a lot of things keep happening that

1215
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 1: make Bill seem really credible to the fringe. Right, is

1216
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 1: like Bill said, they're going to take our guns, and

1217
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 1: then they passed this law to take our guns, not

1218
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: considering that it was part of Bill's work that created

1219
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 1: the problems. Yes, that really helped create the system where

1220
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 1: they were like, oh man, it seems like a lot

1221
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 1: of people have military grade weaponry who are violently unhinged.

1222
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 1: Maybe let's try to do which I'm not a fan

1223
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: of the assault weapons ban either, but like you can

1224
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 1: maybe it's not like let's create create a media yeah

1225
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 1: show where Bill were encouraging it. It's a great way

1226
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: to get a lot. Yeah. Yeah, he has a big

1227
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 1: impact on why that happens. He's a big impact on

1228
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 1: the growth of the militia feedback loop developing here with

1229
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 1: exactly it's the same thing with like these boogaloo guys

1230
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 1: who are obsessed with like being Second Amendment absolutists and

1231
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:39,920
Speaker 1: or who are going to guarantee massive restriction gun restrictive

1232
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 1: gun control legislation comes in if a Democrat ever gets

1233
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 1: into office again, because you guys have been such like

1234
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 1: like violent lunatics in public, waving guns around and scaring

1235
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 1: people and like yeah, thanks, yeah, yeah, you did a

1236
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: great job and create the problem that if there is

1237
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 1: a crackdown, it's like, well that is you know, in

1238
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: no small part your fault there. Yeah. So in August

1239
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 1: of mcveigh's old friend Michael Fortier, did an interview with

1240
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 1: a far right newsletter where when asked what led to

1241
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 1: the bombing, he replied, I can't say a whole lot,

1242
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 1: but we heard lots of tapes and saw videos and

1243
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: read things. There's this guy with the radio station in Arizona,

1244
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:20,559
Speaker 1: Bill Cooper. He keeps calling people sheeple and was mad

1245
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 1: that they ain't doing anything to change things. Well, we

1246
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 1: got to thinking that's right, things need to change. Tim

1247
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 1: really responded to that um. In nineteen James Nichols testified

1248
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:32,320
Speaker 1: in federal court that he, his brother Terry, and Tim

1249
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 1: McVeigh listened to Cooper as often as they could. They

1250
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 1: called him the voice of the militia movement. So, yeah, Bill,

1251
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 1: Bill helps to cause all of the things that cause

1252
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:45,599
Speaker 1: all of the things that he's scared about. That's right.

1253
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 1: So it's I mean with that kind of like, you know, uh,

1254
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 1: looking at it now, you're like, well, of course he

1255
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 1: may have seemed right about a lot of these things.

1256
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:58,640
Speaker 1: He was anticipating potential consequences to problems that he was

1257
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 1: to create. Yeah, it's like government isn't guilty of the

1258
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 1: stuff like that themselves. I just uh yeah, yeah, It's

1259
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: it's like when when I when the the f d

1260
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 1: A eventually raids my compound and burns dozens of children

1261
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:14,879
Speaker 1: to death in our basement, all seem like a profit

1262
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 1: for having predicted it, But really, by constantly engaging in

1263
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 1: this battle with the FDA for years, you know, I'm I'm,

1264
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 1: I'm in a way creating the situation myself, which is

1265
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 1: why should associated with this clip When it inevitably um

1266
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: surfaces after after your prediction turns out to have been true,

1267
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 1: you know what you should do, Jamie is by one

1268
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 1: of our new f d A approved to cure all

1269
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 1: diseases masks, which are in fact FDA approved to cure

1270
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 1: all diseases. That's official FDA approval. Um, So by the mask.

1271
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:49,120
Speaker 1: He just did that entire thing to plug his new

1272
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: merch Just so you know, this whole episode Bitcoin I am,

1273
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 1: I am digging up metaphorically the corpses of the dead

1274
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:00,320
Speaker 1: at Waco in Oklahoma City and Ruby Ridge in order

1275
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:03,600
Speaker 1: to face masks and spark a fight with the f

1276
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: d A. That's that's because I'm a monster too. I'm

1277
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 1: just as bad as Bill Cooper. I'm putting that on

1278
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 1: your Wikipedia page. Thank you, thank you. So um coming

1279
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 1: up in the biggest trial in American history as the

1280
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: inspiration behind a mad bomber was not a great move

1281
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 1: for Bill's long term career, especially since he'd stopped paying

1282
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 1: taxes in nineteen nine two and also light on a

1283
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 1: loan application. UM. So he starts getting warrants issued for

1284
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: his arrest for again committing crimes. Um. And he lives

1285
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:39,680
Speaker 1: up on top of a mountain in Arizona at this

1286
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 1: point in time, and the sheriff of Apache County where

1287
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 1: he lived, was actually a pretty smart guy and was like,

1288
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 1: if I try to arrest Bill Cooper, He's going to

1289
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 1: go down in a hail of gunfire and it's going

1290
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,719
Speaker 1: to be just a terrible It's gonna be another Ruby

1291
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 1: Ridge and I'm not gonna fucking do that. Like, he

1292
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 1: can live on the top of his mountain for another

1293
01:10:58,200 --> 01:10:59,720
Speaker 1: fifty years for all I care. And he tells the

1294
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 1: f eyas the Sheriff's like, I'm not like arrested this

1295
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 1: guy is, and the FBI are like, yeah, it seems

1296
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 1: like a really bad idea to arrest this guy. Anything

1297
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 1: that happens to Bill Cooper, to him is like a

1298
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:12,599
Speaker 1: confirmation that what he was saying was right. He's like, well,

1299
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 1: I'll probably be you know, taken out or arrested. It's like, well, yeah,

1300
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 1: because you're evading your taxes. But yeah, yeah, the problem

1301
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:21,680
Speaker 1: you've created. Well, and that's exactly what Bill does with it.

1302
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 1: So like the actual law enforcement in his area just

1303
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 1: kind of leaves him alone. Like he regularly will go

1304
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 1: to a local Mexican restaurant and get enchiladas and ship

1305
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 1: and like nobody tries anything because again, nobody wants the

1306
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 1: bullshit that would come with trying to bring Bill Cooper

1307
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 1: in being so annoying. Yeah, but Bill becomes a massive

1308
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,600
Speaker 1: drama queen about the whole thing, breathlessly talking about the

1309
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:44,080
Speaker 1: siege of his compound and like bragging about it, like

1310
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 1: how he and his wife and his his little daughter

1311
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 1: like aren't leaving and you know, won't leave. They don't

1312
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 1: leave for years and are like living under and he'll

1313
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 1: talk about how like they've got anti helicopter countermeasures and

1314
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 1: like secret militiamen guarding his compound with him, and you know,

1315
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 1: he'll vaguely discussed all his security men shars and ship

1316
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: which was all bullshit. He had one friend who was

1317
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 1: like a vet who would like hang out with a

1318
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 1: gun with him sometimes when he got scared, and he

1319
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:09,519
Speaker 1: had like some cans strung up like he had no

1320
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: there was no like security network set up like he

1321
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 1: was canned. His security was I maybe I may be

1322
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: making that one up, but it was he didn't have

1323
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 1: any sort of meaningful security network because he was broke

1324
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 1: and living in a crumbling house on top of a

1325
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 1: mountain because he he had no money. Um. Yeah, and

1326
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 1: you know, it's we don't know a lot. We don't

1327
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 1: know a huge amount about his situation with his wife,

1328
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:36,639
Speaker 1: but at least one of his friends catches him having

1329
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 1: like this really vicious, screaming fight with her where he's

1330
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 1: like at least mentally abusive, and you get the feeling

1331
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: he was probably physically abusive to her, and we're taking

1332
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 1: his past history accounts almost certainly. At the same time,

1333
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:53,120
Speaker 1: it becomes really clear to anyone listening that like, really

1334
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 1: the only thing keeping Bill kind of tethered to reality

1335
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 1: is his daughter. Um, and he'll have she's a little

1336
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 1: kid at this point, he'll have her on the show.

1337
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 1: A bunch. She hosts it with him sometimes and he's

1338
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 1: like really, um, yeah, like it's it's it's kind of heartbreaking.

1339
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:10,880
Speaker 1: I don't want to go into too much just because

1340
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 1: it's a real bummer to listen to them together because

1341
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:19,439
Speaker 1: eventually Bill's abusiveness forces his wife to leave him, and

1342
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 1: she like flees with their daughter and he never sees

1343
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 1: her again. Um, because of what happens next. But yeah,

1344
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 1: and that, like yeah, that's that. Like again, she did

1345
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,560
Speaker 1: absolutely the right thing because Bill at this point is

1346
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:36,799
Speaker 1: a hardcore alcoholic. He's continued to be mentally and probably

1347
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:40,559
Speaker 1: physically abusive. He's locked them away in a mountaintop compound

1348
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:44,520
Speaker 1: hiding from the fucking Feds, directly tied to the Oklahoma

1349
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 1: City BOS, directly tied to the Oklahoma City bombing. Like

1350
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:52,600
Speaker 1: Annie makes the right call in getting their kid the

1351
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 1: funk out of there eventually, And again Annie deserves some

1352
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: pome because she stays for a long time and she's

1353
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 1: a pretty at least for a chunk of his career,

1354
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:04,040
Speaker 1: a very willing participant in the Bill Cooper thing. Um

1355
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:07,560
Speaker 1: also a victim to but also like, I don't know,

1356
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:10,480
Speaker 1: it's a fucked up story. Everything about this guy's relationships

1357
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:13,320
Speaker 1: are fucked up. Um, thankfully she doesn't get the I

1358
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,960
Speaker 1: and I don't know anything about his daughter today. Um,

1359
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:17,600
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to look it up because she

1360
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:22,439
Speaker 1: deserves to have some chance to get away from Yeah.

1361
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 1: Bill's last remaining years were spent putting out a series

1362
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 1: of increasingly morose broadcasts and occasionally watching the conspiratorial seeds

1363
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: he'd sown bare fruit, like when he watched the nine

1364
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 1: X Files movie and recognized huge chunks of Behold a

1365
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 1: Pale Horse served up his entertainment um, which he found

1366
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 1: very exciting. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. As Bill's life

1367
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 1: shrank to the confines of his increasingly decrepit home, he

1368
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 1: himself sunk into alcoholism. But many of the ideas he

1369
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:55,040
Speaker 1: popularized we're working their way into popular culture. They just

1370
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 1: grown beyond him at this point. On June two thousand one,

1371
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: Bill Cooper made what would be his greatest prediction yet.

1372
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 1: He told his listeners that a major attack on the

1373
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:06,759
Speaker 1: United States was coming, and then it would be blamed

1374
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 1: on Osama Bin Laden. Really yep, yep. June one, names

1375
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 1: been Laden in the broadcast. Now, again, not much of

1376
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 1: a prediction, because Bin Laden had bombed the World Trade

1377
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:20,720
Speaker 1: Center a couple of years earlier and was one of

1378
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 1: the most famous terrorists in the world at the time. Wait,

1379
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 1: hold on, wait what year is this? This is two?

1380
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 1: This is but like before right before nine eleven, but

1381
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 1: after the first World Trade Center bombing, like Ben Latton

1382
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 1: bombed it before, right, Yeah, So it's so that isn't okay, okay, okay,

1383
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 1: you're right here. So he gives this prediction and then

1384
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:43,679
Speaker 1: in the immediate wake of the attack, like he's obviously

1385
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 1: really horrified, but he also kind of he's the very

1386
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:48,280
Speaker 1: first truther, Like he's one of the very first guys

1387
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 1: who starts talking about like how the thing, the building

1388
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 1: shouldn't have fallen the way it did, and like Steele

1389
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 1: doesn't work that way. All the all this stuff that

1390
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 1: like with like like a jet fueld doesn't melt. In fact,

1391
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 1: a lot of folks will argue that loose change that documentary,

1392
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:04,439
Speaker 1: a huge amount of it was plagiarized from stuff Bill

1393
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:06,960
Speaker 1: Cooper had started saying in the immediate wake of nine

1394
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:10,680
Speaker 1: eleven because because he dies like two seconds after he

1395
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 1: dies two seconds after nine eleven, but he but that's

1396
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 1: the way Bill's mind works, he's immediately spinning conspiracies. He

1397
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:19,720
Speaker 1: can't not do it, So he leaves the world with

1398
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:23,600
Speaker 1: nine eleven Trutherism. Um, and he leaves the world with

1399
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 1: Alex Jones, who Jones in his early career talked about

1400
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:30,519
Speaker 1: Bill Cooper a lot, clearly admired him, deeply had Bill

1401
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:33,719
Speaker 1: on as a guest once. Um, and Bill fucking hated

1402
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 1: Alex Jones and ranted about him a couple of times

1403
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 1: on his own show and basically saw him as a

1404
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:43,679
Speaker 1: charlatan and everything that was wrong with America. I mean yeah,

1405
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 1: which is ironic because like a lot of like Alex

1406
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: Jones made a bunch of money in his earlier selling

1407
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 1: like Golden Ship two People over the Radio, and Bill

1408
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:53,080
Speaker 1: Cooper was the first guy to do that, or not

1409
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 1: the first gay, but like the first conspiracy not to

1410
01:16:55,320 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 1: do that. Um, so yeah, that's cool. Uh, that's that's

1411
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:06,760
Speaker 1: that's neat. Yeah. So Bill, you know it starts nine

1412
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 1: eleven Trutherism as kind of a last hurrah. And in

1413
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 1: July of two thousand one, so less than a month

1414
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:15,519
Speaker 1: after you know, his big prediction, Uh, Bill makes the

1415
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 1: stake mistake of threatening a local doctor named hamblin Um

1416
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 1: and so yeah, like basically Bill lived on top of

1417
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:25,840
Speaker 1: this mountain, and the mountain most of it was like

1418
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:28,720
Speaker 1: public property, Like anyone could come onto Bill's mountain if

1419
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 1: they wanted. But Bill thought it was his mountain, and

1420
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 1: people who drove up onto it perfectly within their rights

1421
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:39,599
Speaker 1: to do so. Um, we're like damaging his security measures. Um.

1422
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 1: So he would regularly come out with a handgun and

1423
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: threaten to murder people for driving onto public land. Um.

1424
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: And yeah, this got him in trouble. Uh. And in

1425
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 1: in two thousand one, you know, the county had a

1426
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 1: new sheriff. The guy who had been like it's not

1427
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:56,800
Speaker 1: worth it to go after him, um is gone. And

1428
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:59,600
Speaker 1: this new sheriff is like an idiot. He's like a

1429
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:02,559
Speaker 1: rec this dumbass. And it's like we can it's time

1430
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:05,000
Speaker 1: to finally do something about Bill Cooper. It'll be big

1431
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 1: news if we do it, like it'll be good for

1432
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:11,200
Speaker 1: my career. Um. So not all that long after nine eleven, Uh,

1433
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 1: this sheriff launches a raid on Bill Cooper. And like

1434
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:16,640
Speaker 1: the idea is to basically pretend to be you know,

1435
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 1: a motorist who's like wandered up to his mountain. Bill

1436
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 1: comes out and you kind of can surround him and

1437
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:24,760
Speaker 1: arrest him. Um, And it kind of relies on Bill

1438
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 1: not being the most paranoid man alive, which Bill work

1439
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:32,800
Speaker 1: very well. No, Bill immediately realizes that like the cops

1440
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:35,600
Speaker 1: are trying to trap him, um, and he tries to

1441
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:37,519
Speaker 1: like run him down in his car and Yeah, the

1442
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:40,240
Speaker 1: whole thing degenerates into a gunfight and Bill shoots an

1443
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 1: officer dead before going down himself in a hail of gunfire. Um. Well, ye,

1444
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 1: I feel like if he had to go, I mean

1445
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:53,600
Speaker 1: he I'm not he went down, but I feel like

1446
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:57,960
Speaker 1: he was probably satisfied with Yeah. I think on an

1447
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 1: emotional level, Bill Cooper need too needed to go down

1448
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:06,080
Speaker 1: being murdered by cops and like a dawn like in

1449
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:08,560
Speaker 1: like a raid, like that was the way he expected

1450
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:11,800
Speaker 1: to go for years, And it also validates his own

1451
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:16,559
Speaker 1: like perception of himself. Yeah, and he's he was clearly

1452
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:20,519
Speaker 1: he was sick. He probably wouldn't have lived that much longer. Um,

1453
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:23,960
Speaker 1: it's a shame he killed a random guy on his

1454
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:26,479
Speaker 1: way out, but also it was a cop who was

1455
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 1: fucking with him, So whatever, it's whatever. Kind of a wash,

1456
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,360
Speaker 1: it's kind of a wash. It's if you're looking at

1457
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:37,479
Speaker 1: like how most of these guys leave the world, Like

1458
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: Alex Jones is going to have a much more depressing

1459
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:42,439
Speaker 1: ending than Bill Cooper. Bill Cooper kind of got what

1460
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 1: he wanted in the end, which is he gonna like

1461
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 1: die of like gout or something. Yeah, I know he's

1462
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:50,120
Speaker 1: going to live to be a hundred and fucking twenty

1463
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:52,840
Speaker 1: and become a Secretary of State. I don't know, Um,

1464
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:55,600
Speaker 1: just like you're just going to live to be the

1465
01:19:55,720 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 1: grand dumb of conspiracy theories, just rotting in a house. Yeah,

1466
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:03,599
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of bummer. Like the book Pale Horse Writer. Um,

1467
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:06,280
Speaker 1: it's an interesting biography. I think it's pretty good. The

1468
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 1: biographer is very sympathetic to Bill, probably more than his

1469
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:12,400
Speaker 1: ferret points. It's kind of hard not to be, I

1470
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 1: think when you get that into somebody's life. Um, but

1471
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:17,639
Speaker 1: he definitely gives Bill more credit than I think Bill

1472
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:20,360
Speaker 1: deserves in a number of things. Um. But like his

1473
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 1: his last days were sad as ship Like at one

1474
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 1: point one of his daughters tries to reconnect with him

1475
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 1: and like comes to his house and she lasts like

1476
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: a week before the like, because he's an abusive prick um,

1477
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 1: and he like scares her away um, like he's he's

1478
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:36,560
Speaker 1: down to, like he's he's barely had alienated all of

1479
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:38,560
Speaker 1: his remaining friends at that point. He was just like

1480
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:42,040
Speaker 1: this lonely, crazy old man with a bunch of guns

1481
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 1: at the top of a hill, threatening passers by with

1482
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:48,040
Speaker 1: a pistol whenever they drove too close to his house.

1483
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:50,759
Speaker 1: Like those That was the last days of William Cooper.

1484
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:58,600
Speaker 1: Well again, I mean I will while I do think that,

1485
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 1: you know, the the inks to like his life as

1486
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:08,320
Speaker 1: a military brand, and then the very clear PTSD that

1487
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 1: like dogged him throughout his life are are sympathetic entry points. Um.

1488
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:17,800
Speaker 1: He seemed to have really lived out life full of

1489
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 1: problems he created by himself. Yeah. Bill is a guy

1490
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:24,920
Speaker 1: who's dealt a rough hand of cards and throws the

1491
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:27,720
Speaker 1: cards away and starts pooping in a box and then

1492
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 1: demanding people treat the poop as if it is a

1493
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 1: deck of cards. Um. And when everyone else is like, no, Bill,

1494
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 1: that's that's clearly poop um, he gets angry at the

1495
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:40,920
Speaker 1: entire world and starts a radio show that a good

1496
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:46,639
Speaker 1: and when has that ever gone well for anyone? Yeah?

1497
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:51,640
Speaker 1: So you know don't become a conspiracy icon at the

1498
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:55,880
Speaker 1: cost of your own happiness and loved ones. Uh, and

1499
01:21:56,000 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 1: instead become a fashion icon and also render yourself commune

1500
01:22:00,479 --> 01:22:03,200
Speaker 1: to all diseases with our new f d A approved

1501
01:22:03,360 --> 01:22:06,080
Speaker 1: f d A approved to prevent all diseases. Masks. This

1502
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:08,839
Speaker 1: is a really good ad. This was this whole episode

1503
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:12,519
Speaker 1: was an ad, right, yeah, absolutely, yeah, okay, just checking.

1504
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:16,080
Speaker 1: Like Bill Cooper, I have decided to cash in on

1505
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:19,320
Speaker 1: the fact that I'm a fundamentally broken, anti social person

1506
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:22,200
Speaker 1: with a head full of ptsd um and I'm choosing

1507
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:25,599
Speaker 1: to do it with masks. Oh good, Well, I'm glad

1508
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 1: that you could find someone to connect with on this show. Yeah. Boy,

1509
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:34,880
Speaker 1: I also threatened random people with a gun for driving

1510
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:37,920
Speaker 1: onto public land. But that's that's a separate that's a

1511
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:40,439
Speaker 1: kind of more of it, more of a kink than anything,

1512
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 1: to be honest, Right, that's that's your that's your little

1513
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:51,960
Speaker 1: Jackie moment. Yeah yeah, yeah. So So Jamie, how are

1514
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:58,040
Speaker 1: you feeling? What's up? He said, how you're feeling? And

1515
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:02,120
Speaker 1: You're like, I question, you know, not thanks for checking in?

1516
01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 1: Uh not good. I don't feel good about it. I

1517
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 1: feel this is this is a this is a more complicated,

1518
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:12,240
Speaker 1: not good than I'm used to um on the on

1519
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:16,120
Speaker 1: the show. But yeah, he's he's a complex man, a complex,

1520
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 1: fundamentally abusive person who's toxicity, uh left him alone on

1521
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:27,840
Speaker 1: a mountaintop. Um yeah yeah, oh boy, Yeah, this was

1522
01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:29,519
Speaker 1: a This was a dark one to tell you what.

1523
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:34,200
Speaker 1: It's that great. How do you feel? I feel? I

1524
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 1: feel like I'm not at all looking into my own future? Um,

1525
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:47,160
Speaker 1: I have with each passing day, you know, we get worried,

1526
01:23:47,240 --> 01:23:49,640
Speaker 1: we worry about you, and we get more worried about you.

1527
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:54,040
Speaker 1: That's actually my full time job. I get closer to

1528
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 1: having that mountaintop compound. Um, you really are edging your

1529
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 1: way up the mountain as time goes. Yeah yeah, yeah,

1530
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,000
Speaker 1: so that I can get into my last great fight

1531
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 1: with the f d A. Um, cowards go down at

1532
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 1: the hands of the f d A. You know it'll

1533
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:14,639
Speaker 1: be so funny. Oh my god. Yes, what a great

1534
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:19,439
Speaker 1: punchline to As a as a human being, I think

1535
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:22,599
Speaker 1: you owe a responsibility to try to like leave something

1536
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:25,920
Speaker 1: entertaining for the children, and like another person dying in

1537
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:28,240
Speaker 1: an old folks home, no kid's gonna like. But something

1538
01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:31,200
Speaker 1: you hear about this this podcast host who started a

1539
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 1: war with the FDA that got seventy kids burnt to

1540
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:36,479
Speaker 1: death in a basement. Like, that's a story, people, you

1541
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:42,120
Speaker 1: really need the kids cut out of this equation. I everybody,

1542
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:44,800
Speaker 1: this is why everyone still loves David Koresh. Look, he

1543
01:24:45,160 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 1: he got seventy kids killed and now he's the sexy

1544
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:50,920
Speaker 1: guy with abs on a fucking Netflix special. So he

1545
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:53,719
Speaker 1: did have too many abs on the net. It's clearly

1546
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:55,800
Speaker 1: fine to get a lot of kids. Still, I don't

1547
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:58,520
Speaker 1: even think it was Netflix. I think it's just on Netflix.

1548
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:04,360
Speaker 1: Well that's where I watched it. Somebody he didn't have

1549
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 1: too many apps on the show. At the point where did,

1550
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:08,800
Speaker 1: I was also like, whoever says for him to have

1551
01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:11,640
Speaker 1: this many apps on the show? Whoever made it? It

1552
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 1: was like was very hot and that guy was very not.

1553
01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 1: It was a bold choice to look at it a

1554
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:22,320
Speaker 1: man who fucked fourteen year olds uh and had illegal

1555
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:25,719
Speaker 1: child brides and say, we got to rehab this dude.

1556
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:31,040
Speaker 1: We got rehab this dude to be like, let's make

1557
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:34,280
Speaker 1: him sexy. We gotta we gotta have him playing a

1558
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:38,600
Speaker 1: rock show right before the FBI kills it. And it

1559
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:41,519
Speaker 1: was on Paramount Network. Somebody told me we were wrong

1560
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:45,840
Speaker 1: time when we gave credit to Netflix for that whatever. Terrible,

1561
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 1: what a ridiculous series. It was a mess. I mean,

1562
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:54,360
Speaker 1: the fucking the Uni Bomber series was problematic too, But

1563
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:56,600
Speaker 1: at least they like got a guy who looked like

1564
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:59,720
Speaker 1: a dangerous shut in to play the Uni Bomber, Like

1565
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:03,160
Speaker 1: I didn't have David Koresh like drop a rap album

1566
01:26:03,320 --> 01:26:06,760
Speaker 1: right as the FBI comes into his fucking house. He's

1567
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:11,760
Speaker 1: just like playing guitar like just I think the only

1568
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:14,439
Speaker 1: series that I think is worse than Waco in terms

1569
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 1: of like this genre of TV is the The Assassination

1570
01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:23,880
Speaker 1: of Gianni Versa. I haven't even watched that. It was ridiculous.

1571
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 1: I thought the O J one was pretty good, was great,

1572
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 1: it was really good. That Giannio one is a fucking mess.

1573
01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:38,840
Speaker 1: Darren Cross plays Andrew Knanan. It's a disaster. Yeah. Ross

1574
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:43,000
Speaker 1: from Friends really changed my opinion of that cart Ashy

1575
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 1: and guy. Whenever he says juice, do you believe it?

1576
01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:54,200
Speaker 1: Do you believe it? You believe that? Ross from Friends

1577
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:56,920
Speaker 1: not only calls his friend that, but because he's such

1578
01:26:56,960 --> 01:26:59,439
Speaker 1: a fan of his friend, he's so excited to get

1579
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:02,439
Speaker 1: to call Juice like you hear that in him, like

1580
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:05,640
Speaker 1: this this this, it was, it's really heartbreaking. It's a

1581
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:09,639
Speaker 1: great I like the the I like that the trial

1582
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:14,600
Speaker 1: O J. Simpson solid, that's a great products before we

1583
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:18,000
Speaker 1: plug getting more document series that we don't have claiming

1584
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:23,280
Speaker 1: I'd like to plug the the O J series. I

1585
01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:26,880
Speaker 1: like it. I watched it, you know, maybe about once

1586
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:30,240
Speaker 1: a year when I get sick, when it's time for

1587
01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:33,759
Speaker 1: you know, Ross from Friends and his love of O. J. Simpson.

1588
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 1: It's good TV for when you get sick. Uh. Then

1589
01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 1: I also have a Twitter account that you can find

1590
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 1: if you want, and you can listen to my year

1591
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:48,320
Speaker 1: and Mensa and the Bechel Cast if you want, And

1592
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:51,680
Speaker 1: you can find me on a mountaintop in Idaho with

1593
01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:57,799
Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of of of young followers the violent

1594
01:27:57,960 --> 01:28:01,840
Speaker 1: hands of the f d A. I don't, I don't.

1595
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:05,120
Speaker 1: I'm just not allowing this. Are you trying to protect

1596
01:28:05,200 --> 01:28:08,800
Speaker 1: me for myself? You're so sam, sir, what I do?

1597
01:28:10,280 --> 01:28:13,040
Speaker 1: He does not only do the episode on you when

1598
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:17,639
Speaker 1: you're killed by the f d A. Clearly, I can't

1599
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:22,640
Speaker 1: stop waycoing. I can't stop waycoing. There's some merch. Now,

1600
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:25,960
Speaker 1: there's some merch. Um. I think we should end the

1601
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:30,360
Speaker 1: episode before you do anything else that upside. Is there

1602
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:33,679
Speaker 1: any other way you'd like to perjure yourself before pretty

1603
01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:36,760
Speaker 1: episode work? Yeah, let me give you my feelings on UH.

1604
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:39,160
Speaker 1: And that's the episode.