WEBVTT - Nancy Jane Smith 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.440 Holy Human with Leanne Rhymes is a production of I 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:12.080 Heart Radio, Hello Loves. I am so honored that you're 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:14.560 here with me sharing this time, and I'm so excited 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.119 to share this episode with you because it tackles a 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:19.759 topic that resonates so deeply with me and I'm sure 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:26.279 many of you out there in listening land anxiety, and 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.560 my guest today has an extremely profound yet simple way 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.320 of approaching it that I think you'll find truly helpful. 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.880 Nancy Jane Smith is a licensed professional counselor and practicing 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.680 anxiety coach. And we all need an anxiety coach. I 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:42.800 feel like we all need one who's stuck, especially right now, 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:48.040 who studied anxiety, inner critic and over functioning as a 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.000 way of coping for the past twenty years. She's written 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.280 several books, including The Happier Approach, Be Kind to Yourself, 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.840 feel happier and still accomplish your goals, and she is 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:03.160 here to share her unique perspective this Holy Human than 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.360 Thank you so so much for coming on the Holy 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:29.000 Human podcast. I am just thrilled to have you because 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:31.839 I love your book. Oh well, thank you so much 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.640 for having me, and I'm so glad you loved the book. Yeah, 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:36.800 I stumbled upon I actually don't know how I stumbled 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.640 upon it. Somehow, some way. I was listening to on 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:41.520 another podcast and I was like, I have to have 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.520 her on because what you talk about in your book, 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:48.800 the happier approach is I feel like I'm so textbook. 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.840 I'm like, this is me. Yes, I totally, and I 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:56.600 think it's a textbook for a lot of other people too. 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.880 I I was, you know that what we're going to 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.760 be talking about here a lot today's anxiety. And I, 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.160 you know, have have dealt with anxiety for many years, 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:07.520 which I know you have also, and so many people do. 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:11.280 That was shocked at this statistic that over forty million 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.360 Americans at any point are dealing with some type of 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.640 anxiety disorder. And it's said that a lot of these people, 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.000 some of us fall into what you call high functioning anxiety. 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:25.760 So I would love for you to just start diving 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:29.160 into what is high functioning anxiety? Like, how do you 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:33.600 define it? Well, it's high functioning anxiety isn't something it's 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:35.639 not gonna be. It's I'm the d s M. It's 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.320 not something you're probably gonna get diagnosed with when you 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:42.239 go see someone. I always like to put that caveat there, 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:47.280 but I stumbled upon it because I have always been 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.360 told by my therapist that I had anxiety, but it 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:54.800 never felt like how I thought anxiety should feel. You know, 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.680 when I'm a therapist, so I know how anxiety should field. 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.520 I never I always thought of it as I always 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.280 push harder. So when I'm feeling anxious, what my anxiety 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.639 causes me to do is to push harder. So I 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.840 think people that have high functioning anxiety tend to have 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.320 a low level of anxiety all the time, and it's 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.680 kind of their driving force of the thing that pushes 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:19.600 them to hustle and hustle and hustle. And so I 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.600 always say there's three layers to high functioning anxiety. One 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:27.560 is the low level anxiety, and then every now and 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.960 then that will go into acute, which means will have 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:36.040 the you know, the racing heart, the insomnia, the gastro problems, 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.440 will have all these physical symptoms of our anxiety. And 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.000 so that's just the anxiety. And then how we cope 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.760 with that anxiety is we engage in overthinking and pushing 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:47.360 harder and let me hustle and let me get that 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.080 to do list done, and let me do all the things, 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.040 because if I can do all the things, then I 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.680 won't feel this level of anxiety. And then on top 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.720 of that, or really underneath all that is shame that's 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.240 driving the whole thing. Shame that we have anxiety, Shame 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.480 that we're not worthy enough. That causes the anxiety. And 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:10.240 so shame plays a huge role in in this anxiety, 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:14.360 that this high function anxiety that I work with. Interesting, Yeah, 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.600 it's funny that you say that there's these levels to 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:18.800 this because I feel like when I'm at the low 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:20.760 level where it's kind of this like just in the 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.520 background all the time, that feels like my natural state. 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:27.359 So yeah, so I'm like, I'm good. I feel good 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:29.880 in this state, and I'm I can get sh done. 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.719 It's true. And it's not till it gets really bad, 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.599 um where I'm you know, I'm having the insomnia and 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.159 I'm having the panic attacks. Do I think And like 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.680 you're saying that a lot of people probably think, oh, 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:47.560 that is anxiety, and it's it's almost it's crazy because 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:51.960 I look, You're right, it drives me and it's helped 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.960 what I believe has benefited me in a lot of ways. 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.600 And I do think there's a bit of truth to that, 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.960 but it's like, what, I don't even know what life 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.120 is without that. I don't even know what life is, 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.440 and I think a lot of people don't without this 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.279 low level in the background constantly playing. I love that 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.000 you just broke it down that way because that just 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.320 was like an eye opener for me because I was 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.200 I'm thinking, oh, yeah, that's that's my field. Good state, 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.560 totally yes. And I think because I stumbled upon I mean, 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.039 I started figuring this out because when I wrote the 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.159 book which we'll talk about, I got into I named 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.200 the main character in that book is the inner critic, 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.719 and I called the ender critic a manger, and because 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.920 manger spread propaganda, and that's what this manger is doing. 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.719 And so I I believed at the time, and I 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.320 still do. Everyone has a manger. Everyone has an inner critic. 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.760 Now some of us have like this demon inner critic 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.280 who is just like that's what my husband calls mine, 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.880 who's just like driving us so freaking hard. And and 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.559 then I realized, Oh, the people that have that type 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.400 of manger are dealing with anxiety and they're and it's 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.599 pushing them into this high functioning anxiety. So so that's 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:07.159 how my work kind of grew into a little selfish 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.640 reasons because I was like, Oh, this explains my own 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.000 world and why this is happening in your world. How 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.400 did you discover this piece for yourself? Like what was 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.280 there a defining moment that was like, oh this makes 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.480 complete sense, the piece about the monger or the piece 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:23.800 about the high peace, about the high function Yeah, we 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.400 have the whole funk whole thing with the high functioning anxiety. 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:28.919 Like when did that click for you? It really clicked 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:33.839 for me. I actually read UM Sarah Wilson's book, Um 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:38.160 the Beast First We Make the Beast Beautiful, and I 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.640 just loved that book. And she's talking about bipolar, which 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:43.840 is what she deals with, but I related to how 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.919 she described anxiety and UM and so that's when my 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.200 therapist had been telling me for years I had anxiety, 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.160 and I was like, okay, whatever, like it's driving me, 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.280 you know, I don't really see this as a problem. 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.039 And then when I read Oh, all these behaviors that 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.520 I'm doing those our anxiety, I just had no clue 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:07.280 that all these protective behaviors I had were because of anxiety, 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:09.560 because part of what we do those when I said, 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:11.960 we have anxiety, and then we engage in these behaviors 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:17.000 such as perfectionism, people pleasing, overthinking, that to do list, 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.920 and you know, obsessing about stuff. And what we'll do 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.320 is we'll get into we'll go to self help and 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:25.160 we'll be like, oh, I need to stop people pleasing 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.760 or I need to stop being a perfectionist, and so 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.920 we take away those coping mechanisms and then we're left 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.000 with anxiety and we don't know what to do with that, 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:37.120 so we go back into people pleasing, perfectionism, overthinking, and 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:41.440 kind of driving everything even further. So through that book 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.080 and then my own research, I realized, oh, all these 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.120 behaviors that I'm doing are actually rooted in anxiety, and 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.400 I need to deal with that anxiety, which I did 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.960 not really want to do, which intern you're really dealing 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.360 with shame, because like you said, that is underneath everything. 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.240 And it's so interesting because I found myself doing it 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.600 many times. Like you, you step into the self help 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.080 world and you're like, oh, I can it's another thing 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.280 I can be good at. I can be a perfectionist 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:08.680 at this, Like I can nail this, and it's like 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:10.760 you kind of go in that loop for a while 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:12.840 and then you're finding like, wait, I'm doing the same 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:14.360 thing here that I was doing in the rest of 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:17.360 my life, and it, you know, boils down to this 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:23.239 I'm not good enoughness that ultimately is driving I feel 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.680 like it is at the core of every single one 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.880 of us in some way, shape or form. And until 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:33.360 we can fully step into this self love, self compassion 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.719 piece that seems so out of reach, Like we talk 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:38.360 about it a lot, but it seems so out of reach. 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.120 Until we can fully do that, we're gonna just keep 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.280 going round and round, and we're gonna find the next 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:47.240 thing to be anxious about and to be good at. Yeah. 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.319 I always joke that all of us, you know, personal 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.040 development people, we're all talking about the same thing. I mean, 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.280 we're all talking about different symptoms, but our solutions are 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:58.520 all the same. You know, I talked about self loyalty, 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:02.240 which is another word for self passion. The answer is 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.960 the same, it's just getting there. It takes a different 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:10.240 path for all of us. Yeah. Absolutely. You said that 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:15.400 high functioning anxiety is an attempt to keep people on 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:19.280 the outside from seeing our insides, and you know, this 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:21.040 is where that shame piece kind of fits. And I 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.199 wonder if you can just expand on what you mean 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:27.160 by that. I frequently tell the story of growing up. 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.719 A lot of my clients and myself and people have 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:35.239 worked with grow up in families that did not encourage 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.679 us to feel our feelings. They didn't encourage us that 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.760 are whatever our experiences is valid, and so I often 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.840 tell the story I call the story of the snake. 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.839 And if you were raised in a family where your 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:49.960 little kid, you're playing on the front porch, you see 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.600 a snake and you run in and you tell your mom, 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:54.840 and most of us were raised in families where your 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:56.840 mom is busy, or maybe she's an alcoholic, or she's 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.480 just overwhelmed, and she's like, I can't deal with the 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.080 snake right out, go out and play. You're you're you're crazy, 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.360 there's no snake there. And so as a little kid, 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.160 you're like, oh, I must be wrong. Let me go 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.199 back out and I'll keep playing even though there's a 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.000 snake here, I'll keep playing. And so you quickly learned 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.920 my reality isn't valid. I need to be checking in 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:19.480 at tuning to everybody else. And so a family that 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.160 grew up in you know, a healthy quote unquote with 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.600 the mom would be like, oh, my gosh, there's a snake. 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:26.360 Let's go look, and she would go with you and 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.080 look and oh, that's scary, and would validate what's happening 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:32.240 and remove the snake. And so when we grew up 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:36.280 in families where we've learned my experience that isn't important 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.520 and actually your experience is more important. So I'm going 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.320 to be able to mind read what's going to happen 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.840 I need. I had one client who said she could 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.440 tell by the time she crossed the threshold what the 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.120 mood was in the house and what she used to do. 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:56.120 I get it to make that better. And so, you know, 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:58.760 especially with your performing at such a young age, like 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:02.400 that idea of what the crowd and what they need 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:06.800 is more important. And so that's how we have tuned 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.720 ourselves to everybody else's needs are more important than mine. 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.000 I often have clients will say to me, I know 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.280 I'm tired, but it doesn't matter that I'm tired, because 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.760 they're more tired, and I can handle tired better than them. 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:23.280 I can suffer better than them. Really, Yeah, Wow, that's 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.199 can we just stop there for a moment because I 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.680 can suffer better than them? And holy crap, that is 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:33.920 at I've been actually really playing with that piece for myself. 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.920 I'm willing to let go of suffering. I'm willing. In fact, 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.319 it is funny. The other night I was driving home 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.480 from Thanksgiving and a friend of mine was in the 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:45.160 back of the car and she was saying she was 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.000 going to rise up from the ashes again, and I go, 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:48.520 do you think do you think it's time to like 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.800 let go of that pattern? And as I said it 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.560 to her, I said it to myself and it dawned 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.040 on me. I was like, Oh, it's time to let 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.800 go of suffering. It's time to let go of that pattern. Like, 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:03.400 we don't have to suffer an order to prove to 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.080 ourselves that we are worthy of something, that we are 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:11.440 worthy because we've overcome something. And man, wouldn't that light bulb? 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:13.600 And I love that you just validated that for me again, 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.680 it was like the universe going, it's time to stop suffering. 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:20.400 But yeah, I think that is such a pattern for 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:24.040 us in our society too. It's like we we have 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:26.720 to prove that we we can overcome in order to 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.560 be worthy. Yes, yeah, And I often talk a lot 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:34.200 with clients about there's pain. You're allowed to have pain, 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:37.319 but you don't have to suffer because of the pain. 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:39.640 You just need to experience that pain and move on. 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.800 You know. Now, Now that sounds way easier said than done, 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.720 but you know what I mean. Yes, yes, you can 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:47.520 allow the pain to be there and move through you 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.680 without having to latch onto it in order to That's 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.040 what then causes the suffering because then we ultimately a 0:12:53.120 --> 0:13:00.000 replaying these things over and over again. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.480 these are It sounds really easy, but it is. It's 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.600 definitely deep, and it's a remembrance of sorts of this 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.480 being kind of thrown up in our face like multiple times, 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:11.440 which I love. Like I said, you just did for 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.520 me is like oh yeah, I am going to let 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:17.280 go of that suffering now. I love it. You know 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.439 what I loved about your book was that you broke 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.520 down these voices in our head so eloquently, and you 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.280 described the inner war that goes on in my head 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:31.120 and I'm sure so many other people's so well. Um, 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:33.760 you talk about you work with these voices. I would 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:35.720 love to dive into what these voices are First off, 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.040 you talk about the judge and the manger. You call 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.000 it the manger. Um, I was wondering, like, what in 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:46.160 what way does the manger play a role in this 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.160 anxiety and in continuing to have this anxiety go over 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.320 and over and over again in our head. There's two 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.680 main characters that cause the anxiety. The manger is the 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.400 inner critic, the you did it wrong. You're such a loser, 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.120 You're never gonna do this. You know, like I heard 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.439 the manger a lot this morning as I was getting 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.040 ready for this interview. You know, like she's just constantly 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:08.720 playing there. And you know, I always say that it's 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.160 you know, she has don't stand Her rules are don't 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.720 stand out, don't be vulnerable, and don't make a mistake, 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:15.760 which if you're going to do anything in your life, 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.760 you're going to do those three things. And it is 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:22.080 that idea of she. I always say her Her intent 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.160 is good, she's trying to keep us safe, but her 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:29.120 messaging is shame and belittling and just really harsh. And 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:31.920 so that's the voice that we hear so much about. 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:33.960 Here's the inner critic. You shouldn't have an inner critic. 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:35.600 You know, like, how to deal with your inner critic, 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.040 and the primary way to do with the inner critic, 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:42.040 common wisdom is is to have self compassion. And I 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.720 was like, what is said? What does that mean? How? 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.400 And if I love myself no matter what, I'm not 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:55.120 gonna succeed because I need this bush this drive. My 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.720 favorite story on this is I did a presentation and 0:14:57.760 --> 0:14:59.720 one of my best friends was there on the manger 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:01.360 and she came up to me after and she was like, 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.600 that was great. I loved it. Oh my gosh, I'm 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:07.640 not gonna do anything you said because I need that voice. Nancy. 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:10.480 And I got home, and this is what inspired me 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:12.000 to write the book. I got home and I was like, 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.960 I do too. She's right, and I, you know, felt 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.160 like such a fraud because here I was teaching people 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:18.800 how to get rid of that voice. But at the 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:23.520 same time, I secretly loved her. And so that's the thing. 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:25.720 We need to be honest about that. Even though we're like, oh, 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.520 I hate my inner critic, no, we actually kind of 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.320 love her too, because she we think she drives us. 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:35.400 So it's this love hate relationship with her that gets 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:41.080 us in trouble. And before we dive deeper into that relationship. 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.320 We are going to take a quick break, but we'll 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:53.200 be right back. Welcome back, Loves. We're talking to Nancy 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.520 Jane Smith about just how complicated our relationship with our 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:02.320 inner critic can be. Yeah, that is completely true. I 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.160 have been playing around with that idea for myself of 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.720 like is there a gentler way to do this? Like 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:10.400 is there a gentler way to have success? Is there 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.560 a kinder, gentler way? And I know there is, But 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.240 you're right, it's this love hate relationship with the monger 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.960 that you you think that that's the only way to 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.600 be driven, that's the only thing that's going to keep you. 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:28.200 For me, like in line because interestingly enough, this BF 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.400 you you talk about the BFF in your head. For me, 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:35.280 my BFF is what I feel is like my rebellious 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:41.080 fifteen year old and she's awesome by the way. Um, 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.840 I've learned to love her. I used to. For me, 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:45.880 it was I would beat myself up about like I 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.200 absolutely hate this piece of me because it's the one 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.560 that self sabotages everything and it's you know, it's and 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:55.800 there was this constant battle between the judge and my BFF, 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.960 My fifteen year old that just would let me, wants 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:02.200 me to just rebel against everything, and so that inner 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:05.159 war is like all I wanna do is shut that 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.520 war up. Like it's like and how what what can 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.040 I take to numb myself out? What can I do 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.480 to shut them up? I mean, and you when you 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.840 when I read that about about that in your book, 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.640 I was like, oh my god, I've never heard anyone 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:25.560 explain this so perfectly. So so yeah, would you go 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.800 into the BF a little bit and like this war 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.520 in between between them? I mean I I described it 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.120 for myself, but I would love, you know, for people 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.879 that aren't in my head. But you can describe a 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.680 little bit more about what these what the BFF does, 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:44.440 and how these two interact on a daily basis. Yeah, 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.879 so the monger is, you know, the one driving us. 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.200 You're such a loser, blah blah blah. And then in 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.679 comes the BFF. I don't worry about it. You know, 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:53.920 let's go home and we'll just have another glass of wine. 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:55.560 What does have a glass wine? It'll be fine. And 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.880 then you know, all the wine feels good. Okay, we'll 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:02.000 have three glasses, no big deal, and it she kind 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.000 of is as the manger pulls up the pressure on 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.080 the pressure cooker, the BFF is there to to take 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:12.480 it back down. And the other way the BFF shows up. 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.560 It's not just through the traditional ways you would think 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.800 of eating and you know, drinking too much and um, 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.200 you know, skipping your workout and don't worry about it. 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.320 But also she shows up as the one who's judging 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.600 other people, like if something doesn't go well, oh, it's 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.160 their fault. There the reason that it didn't go well. 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:31.560 So the manger is telling you how much you failed, 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:34.800 and then to ease that pressure, you come in to blame. 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.000 You know, Betty Sue at work, it's her fault that 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.399 it didn't go well. So this this happens like a 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:44.359 great example, It happens in break rooms everywhere that you know, 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.600 you you hang up the phone and your manger is 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:48.280 getting fired up and said you go into the break 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.400 room and you're like and you're venting about what happened. 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.600 And then before long, now you're demonizing the person that 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.040 was on the phone. But when you walked into the 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:02.040 break room, you were demonizing yourself. And so we love 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.679 that energy with the BFF with other people. The venting 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.280 that that let's beat each other, you know, let's gossip, 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.960 let's do that is another way that BFF shows up. 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.200 And so she appears to have our best interests at heart, 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.919 but she she doesn't because she's just trying to have 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.600 a good time and too offset. She's like the opposite 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.800 end of the pendulum of our monger. You just explain 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:29.360 all of what we see on social media. Yes, yeah, absolutely, 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:35.679 that is everybody's BFF talking. Yes, my goodness, it is. 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.440 And it's intense. Yeah, it's And it is amazing how 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.840 we utilize that piece um in order to feel better. 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.040 And if we could only if we could only get 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.600 in there with our with our judge and and the 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.200 judge and jury and quiet them down a little bit, 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:55.000 maybe that wouldn't be such a such a hook, you know. 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.679 I mean. And what's so interesting about the judge that 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:02.239 you talk about two is that ultimate lee there is 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.160 kind of I would say, a reason to love them 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.600 in a way because they're also there for a protective mechanism. 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.600 So if we can look at it from that view 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:13.760 of like, here's this voice in my head that ultimately 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:16.320 is trying to protect me from shame and guilt, and 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:20.920 like all the things, then maybe that's where this compassion 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.960 actually starts to come in. It is like, oh, this 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.560 part of me isn't really trying to harm me, it's 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:30.560 trying to love me, just in the wrong way. Yes, absolutely, 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:32.760 because I think that's where we go wrong is we 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.440 start you know, like you'll hear things called the inner bitch, 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:39.520 and you know, we'll start demonizing both of those voices, 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.720 and like you said, it's they're parts of us, so 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.000 we need to love them there it's the fifteen year 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.800 old and the curmudgeon lee, you know voice that are 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.440 they're trying to to guide us through the best they 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:57.080 know how m And so it's not about demonizing, which 0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:59.800 I think we want to do, but about kind of 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:03.320 embracing them and seeing what it is because they're serving 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.840 a purpose. What is it they need? Mm hmm. Absolutely 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.240 the self compassion piece. You know, like I said, sometimes 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:12.520 it feels like it's all out there and we can't 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:15.120 grasp it and we can't we can really wrap our 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.360 mind around it, but we can't implement it into our 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:21.159 everyday lives. Like when it comes to that piece, what 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:23.439 do you think we're getting wrong or what do you 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:27.119 think we're misunderstanding. That is why I started using the 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:31.320 term self loyalty, which to me is explain, yeah, explain 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.320 what that is. Yeah. So I found a lot of 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:37.679