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Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 1: That's one you feed dot net slash habits. I hope
Speaker 1: to see you there.
Speaker 2: Through mindful eating, one can learn to still include the
Speaker 2: foods that someone wishes to include, but not feel guilty
Speaker 2: and enjoy it and celebrated and be able to have
Speaker 2: the stop button. And these practices do help.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the one you feed. Throughout time, great thinkers
Speaker 3: have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes
Speaker 3: like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think,
Speaker 3: ring true. And yet for many of us, our thoughts
Speaker 3: don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy,
Speaker 3: or fear. We see what we don't have instead of
Speaker 3: what we do. We think things that hold us back
Speaker 3: and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking.
Speaker 3: Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort
Speaker 3: to make a life worth living. This podcast is about
Speaker 3: how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction,
Speaker 3: how they feed their good wolf.
Speaker 4: Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is
Speaker 4: Andrea Lieberstein, the founder and director of the Mindful Eating
Speaker 4: Training Institute and best selling author of the book Well Nourished.
Speaker 4: She's a mindful eating Expert, certified ecotherapist, certified mindfulness meditation teacher,
Speaker 4: internationally recognized teacher, trainer, mindfulness based dietitian, nutritionist, and dedicated
Speaker 4: dharma practitioner. In her private practice, Andrea works with individuals
Speaker 4: to have more peace, balance, and joy in their relationship
Speaker 4: with food, nutrition, body image and stress related issues and
Speaker 4: health concerns, or who simply want to bring their lives
Speaker 4: back into balance and vibrancy through mindful eating and living.
Speaker 5: Hi, Andrea, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Eric, good to be here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm happy to have you back on. You were
Speaker 1: a guest a number of years ago. The topic that
Speaker 1: you talk about is one that I hear from listeners
Speaker 1: on a regular basis, that is something they could use
Speaker 1: help with, which is really eating, how we eat, why
Speaker 1: we eat, you know, being more mindful in our choices,
Speaker 1: you know, reducing what we would think of perhaps as
Speaker 1: emotional eating. So we'll get into all of that in
Speaker 1: a second, and into your book, which is called Well Nourished,
Speaker 1: Mindful Practices to heal your relationship with food, feed your
Speaker 1: whole self, and end over eating. But before we do,
Speaker 1: we'll start with the parable, like we always do. In
Speaker 1: the parable, there's a grandparent who's talking with their grandchild,
Speaker 1: they say, in life, there are two wolves inside of
Speaker 1: us that are always a battle. One is a good wolf,
Speaker 1: which are and things like kindness and bravery and love,
Speaker 1: and the others a bad wolf, which represents things like
Speaker 1: greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops and
Speaker 1: they think about it for a second, and they look
Speaker 1: up at their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins?
Speaker 1: And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd
Speaker 1: like to start off by asking you what that parable
Speaker 1: means to you and your life and in the work
Speaker 1: that you do.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, so relevant and such a great question.
Speaker 2: I would say that my work and my life is
Speaker 2: all about feeding that good wolf. And the book that
Speaker 2: we're talking about here two is really it's all about
Speaker 2: how do we feed that good wolf the thoughts, the feelings,
Speaker 2: and also how do we work how do we skillfully
Speaker 2: navigate the bad wolf when it arises, because that's part
Speaker 2: of being human. It will be there. There's the way
Speaker 2: to work with the bad wolves so that it doesn't
Speaker 2: take any whole, doesn't get any nutriment, or it's very
Speaker 2: little nutriment or soil to grow on. That's part of
Speaker 2: the work too. There's always some we're human. But what's
Speaker 2: so wonderful is there's so much ancient wisdom and contemporary
Speaker 2: wisdom ways to work on nourishing that good wolf and
Speaker 2: having a more beautiful, well nourished life inside and out.
Speaker 1: And your general premise is that there are multiple parts
Speaker 1: of us that need to be nourished, and when we're
Speaker 1: not nourishing these other parts of ourselves, we tend to
Speaker 1: rely on food to substitute for that nourishment. And that
Speaker 1: if we do nourish all these different parts of ourselves
Speaker 1: that we'll get into in a minute, then our relationship
Speaker 1: with food can change. But if all we're trying to
Speaker 1: do is change our relationship to food without changing any
Speaker 1: of those other things, it's often not going to work.
Speaker 1: Is that a fairly good summary.
Speaker 2: Some of it is. I'm going to just fine tune that.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for that. First of all, focus
Speaker 2: on food as nourishment and comfort to the point of
Speaker 2: it being an issue and out of balance. Is it's
Speaker 2: not an issue for everyone, or to varying degrees, people
Speaker 2: might focus on something else to help cope with the
Speaker 2: challenges of life and emotional discomfort. So it's not that everybody. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're right, that is somewhat of the premise. But what's
Speaker 2: nice about the book is, and actually the original title
Speaker 2: that I had been interested in when I was working
Speaker 2: with a publisher was a Guide to Mindful Eating and
Speaker 2: Living because it's so much more than just about food.
Speaker 2: But food is a very easy, accessible for most place
Speaker 2: to find nourishment and soothe and comfort uncomfortable feelings. The
Speaker 2: problem is that that can get out of balance and
Speaker 2: right lead to a lot of overeating and just an imbalanced,
Speaker 2: disordered relationship with food. So what I found in my
Speaker 2: work is that, yes, for people that are struggling with
Speaker 2: relationship to food and wanting to heal that, we could
Speaker 2: spend all of our sessions or all of our time
Speaker 2: on that, and it's really helpful. But we are complex
Speaker 2: and amazing and multi dimensional human beings and there are
Speaker 2: many other aspects of ourselves that need nourishment right to
Speaker 2: thrive and yeah, be fulfilled. So it's not that there's
Speaker 2: an exact order. Oh, if we work on fulfilling all
Speaker 2: the other parts of ourselves, then we're gonna heal relationship
Speaker 2: with food. But it all comes together, right, and yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's all I just wanted to say, it's not
Speaker 2: let's go focus on everything else and then we're just
Speaker 2: going to magically heal it. There's a lot that we
Speaker 2: do that we work with and that area of healing
Speaker 2: relationship with food, and what starts to happen is without
Speaker 2: all that focus on your show and your listeners have
Speaker 2: many times probably heard the term negativity bias, that we
Speaker 2: tend to focus on what isn't working where our struggle is.
Speaker 2: So as we learn to have the skills to begin
Speaker 2: to come more into balance and not overfocus, there is
Speaker 2: much more energy that opens up in the mind, in
Speaker 2: the heart, in perspective and view, and in our lives
Speaker 2: physically to bring in and cultivate other sources of nourishment,
Speaker 2: to come more into balance, resilience, more joy in one's life,
Speaker 2: be more fulfilled. So it's kind of like we're working
Speaker 2: on them. When clients come to me specifically or readers
Speaker 2: come to the book specifically for looking for working with food,
Speaker 2: that's a really good place to start. But at the
Speaker 2: same time or a little bit later, really starting to
Speaker 2: bring in all these other ways, and I call it
Speaker 2: inner nourishment or deep nourishment to nourish the self. So
Speaker 2: one of those foundational ways is mindfulness, and that falls
Speaker 2: under psychological nourishment. We'll get into talking about it, but
Speaker 2: there's eight different aspects of ourselves in this model that
Speaker 2: have identified that need nourishment to really thrive, but to
Speaker 2: different degrees. We are all so individual, so I use
Speaker 2: the metaphor of we are the master chefs of our
Speaker 2: own life, and our recipes will look different, they'll be
Speaker 2: unique in each of these areas and then the whole
Speaker 2: of our life. So some people may need more nourishment
Speaker 2: in some areas than others, some may not need very
Speaker 2: much in some of them. And I know I'm speaking
Speaker 2: in generalities right now, but we'll dig down still a
Speaker 2: little bit. So yeah, I hope that's a clarification that
Speaker 2: it all goes together. And working with people for so
Speaker 2: many years with eating issues, it's so much more beyond that.
Speaker 2: So once the focus through beginning to heal is softened
Speaker 2: and opened up, there's so much more in our lives
Speaker 2: to begin to realize is actually already there that we
Speaker 2: could focus on through mindfulness and really enjoy and savor
Speaker 2: and then also maybe cultivate and bringing in some more
Speaker 2: of those nourishing aspects of our lives that we've been neglecting.
Speaker 1: So what is the overall approach for the well nourished
Speaker 1: approach when it comes to dealing with mindful eating and living?
Speaker 1: Can you offer the broad framework?
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, Well there are several ways to approach the
Speaker 2: broad framework, and one of them is just kind of
Speaker 2: picking out the five steps to mindful eating and living
Speaker 2: and being well nourished, and again a broad overview, but
Speaker 2: that is first awareness, awareness that there is an issue,
Speaker 2: that things are out of balance, and then through that
Speaker 2: awareness moving into intentions setting, getting clear on setting an energizing,
Speaker 2: positive intention and vision for one's self that is motivating
Speaker 2: for healing. And then after that is skills and tools,
Speaker 2: learning all the skills and tools to support that, and
Speaker 2: then cultivating inner resources which include a lot of the
Speaker 2: skills and tools, but inner resources. And then the fifth
Speaker 2: is outer support. So there's a lot. As I was
Speaker 2: getting ready for this podcast today, I was thinking of
Speaker 2: just kind of an old cliche about what is it.
Speaker 2: It's an inside job. It's just an old cliche, But
Speaker 2: there's so much the way that our view, the way
Speaker 2: we view the world, our thoughts, really the strong determinant
Speaker 2: of how we experience the world, ourselves, our choices, and
Speaker 2: also how we feel. And a lot of the practices,
Speaker 2: skills and tools help work with cultivating what we call
Speaker 2: sometimes in the Buddhist world, all this wholesome wholesome thoughts, feelings,
Speaker 2: and tensions, qualities, so a deep form of inner nourishment.
Speaker 1: And so let's assume that we have a listener who's
Speaker 1: listening and has enough of an internal awareness of themselves
Speaker 1: and they're eating patterns to have recognized that they often
Speaker 1: eat in ways that have nothing to do with the
Speaker 1: actual hunger they have. Right, they're eating more than they want,
Speaker 1: they're eating foods they don't want to eat, and they've
Speaker 1: been able to sort of connect it to emotion, you know.
Speaker 1: So let's say they're that far along in the process, really,
Speaker 1: where is the next place for that person to sort
Speaker 1: of start to look at what do they do now?
Speaker 5: If they've got that level of.
Speaker 2: Awareness that's emotional eating and they're not hungry, so that's great,
Speaker 2: and working with cultivating non judgmental kind awareness and compassion
Speaker 2: through mindfulness practice, there's different ways to work with emotional eating.
Speaker 2: My approach is through mindfulness. Through mindfulness based approach. What
Speaker 2: I find really powerful and life changing. So cultivating through
Speaker 2: simple practice of mindfulness, meditation, working with the breath, breath
Speaker 2: awareness or body. Some people really find movement more helpful.
Speaker 2: Walking doing some walking practice, and also working with amounts
Speaker 2: of time that work for each person and choice is
Speaker 2: really important working with this, but starting to develop that
Speaker 2: kind non judgmental way of pain attention and learning to
Speaker 2: tune in. It's still really helpful with this. Working with
Speaker 2: mindful eating is to get very clear on hunger signals,
Speaker 2: physical hunger signals, and the subtle of that, and the
Speaker 2: different levels and the subtleties of fullness and the subtleties
Speaker 2: of taste because a lot of times with emotional eating, well,
Speaker 2: all these things help people to become more present and
Speaker 2: aware because what happens people that are listening to this
Speaker 2: that are emotional eaters to varying degrees will have experiences
Speaker 2: where they just completely numb out once they start eating.
Speaker 2: They don't even know what happens, they're just eating. And
Speaker 2: there's others that well, Actually, what we find with this program,
Speaker 2: and it is based on there's a lot of research
Speaker 2: out there and each funded research which is awesome on
Speaker 2: programs such as mb EAT, which this is partially based
Speaker 2: on mindfulness based eating awareness training and others that when
Speaker 2: people learn to pause and tune in before eating and
Speaker 2: even daring eating, so if an emotional eating episode has
Speaker 2: already started, it's not too late to tune in, and
Speaker 2: with practice it gets easier. So it's not like, okay,
Speaker 2: this is what you do first session, or just read
Speaker 2: the book and then it's going to stop. But it's
Speaker 2: actually a practice of learning to be present and learning
Speaker 2: to be present with discomfort, with that bad wolf in
Speaker 2: a way where we don't get lost in it and
Speaker 2: follow those really uncomfortable feelings right into the cookie jar.
Speaker 2: But to develop that pause, that mindful pause, with kindness
Speaker 2: and then make a different choice. And part of this
Speaker 2: too is this approach, which is nice. It's not an
Speaker 2: all or nothing just kind of jumping to this. Doesn't
Speaker 2: mean you can never to be free of emotional eating,
Speaker 2: never learn to be able to enjoy some yummy food
Speaker 2: for that joy and comfort, that positive kind of positive emotion,
Speaker 2: but very mindfully, very consciously aware that you're doing this,
Speaker 2: learning to enjoy it with a smaller amount, but really
Speaker 2: present for the flavor. And so some people might keep
Speaker 2: that enjoying eating less in their toolbox, but it's much
Speaker 2: more expanded to many other choices that one can make
Speaker 2: to help manage emotions. That's where well nourished comes in
Speaker 2: because it's not just like, oh, let's create that nourishing
Speaker 2: list of activities which a lot of people are working
Speaker 2: with emotional eating will develop. It's kind of a traditional way, O, hey,
Speaker 2: let's make that list. This is a little bit more
Speaker 2: comprehensive looking at these eight different parts of ourselves that
Speaker 2: need nourishment and really focusing on opening up the door
Speaker 2: to lots of other ways to make choices. Whether it's exercising,
Speaker 2: getting up and moving, stretching so that would be in
Speaker 2: the realm of physical nourishment, or drinking water, or calling
Speaker 2: a friend, texting, getting up and talking to a coworker,
Speaker 2: telling jokes that would be under the realm of social nourishment.
Speaker 2: For example, emotional nourishment, it's both inner and outer, so
Speaker 2: it might be working with a skill called self compassion
Speaker 2: and kindness. It might be bringing in certainly using mindfulness,
Speaker 2: which is in the realm of psychological nourishment, but bringing
Speaker 2: in kindness, soothing, loving kindness. A lot of times, just
Speaker 2: meeting oneself with kindness and loving kindness helps take care
Speaker 2: of that hunger that is not about food, but wanting connection,
Speaker 2: whether to one's self or just connecting with someone else.
Speaker 2: And there's lots of other there's creative nourishment and spiritual
Speaker 2: nourishment and intellectual nourishment. It's kind of like a design
Speaker 2: for one's whole life. I sometimes give talks called a
Speaker 2: well nourished life. But it opens the door for what else?
Speaker 2: What is it in this moment of mindful pause? What
Speaker 2: is it that I truly need right now? What are
Speaker 2: my true needs? What is it that I'm truly hungry for?
Speaker 2: So it's a process of strengthening that ability to pause
Speaker 2: and notice and be able to be present with discomfort
Speaker 2: and not act on it right Urges cravings are uncomfortable.
Speaker 5: They certainly are.
Speaker 1: So you talk about these eight different bodies, you've sort
Speaker 1: of alluded to some of them here, and we can
Speaker 1: get into that a little bit exactly what each of
Speaker 1: them are a little bit more, But is understanding what
Speaker 1: each of the eight different bodies that need nourishment? Is
Speaker 1: that really helpful? So that when I start to ask
Speaker 1: myself what it is I need right now. I have
Speaker 1: some different places to kind of go look in a
Speaker 1: sense to almost like because if I ask myself, well,
Speaker 1: what is it I need right now? Oftentimes I may
Speaker 1: not have a real good answer to that. Right, but
Speaker 1: if I think do I need social connection? Do I
Speaker 1: need emotional connection? Do I need physical movement? Is by
Speaker 1: understanding each of the eight again sort of gives us
Speaker 1: a way of sort of looking around and getting some ideas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very helpful. Yes, it's kind of adding in
Speaker 2: more precision, so one can actually go through a checklist, okay,
Speaker 2: or it might just arise very clearly or kind of
Speaker 2: going through that checklist. And in the book, each chapter
Speaker 2: when it goes into each body has an assessment of
Speaker 2: questions where you can assess how much how am I
Speaker 2: doing in this area? Is this an area that I
Speaker 2: need to really focus on and expand? And so going
Speaker 2: through the book there's lots of practices suggestions. So by
Speaker 2: starting to invite these different areas in it also will
Speaker 2: be more readily accessible in that moment. But yes, I
Speaker 2: find it really helpful. You can use it as a checklist.
Speaker 2: I actually use an image. It's called the well nurshed
Speaker 2: bowl okay, And it's a circle with eight pedals. Looks
Speaker 2: a little like a flower of life, but there's eight
Speaker 2: pedals and they are all overlapping because all of these
Speaker 2: things are connected, and the outer rim of the bowl
Speaker 2: is mindfulness and self compassion and kindness and non judgment,
Speaker 2: loving kindness, all that. So that way that we learn
Speaker 2: to rest in awareness and hold our experience in this way,
Speaker 2: mindfulness offers us that.
Speaker 1: So I'm going back to our imaginary listener here, who
Speaker 1: I've described so far, And let's say that person already
Speaker 1: does have a mindfulness practice. They spend some amount of
Speaker 1: time each day or most days, you know, doing some
Speaker 1: sort of meditation practice or mindfulness practice. I mean, I
Speaker 1: know people like this, right, I'm not completely making these people.
Speaker 5: Up from whole cloth.
Speaker 1: Right, They've got a mindfulness practice, but it hasn't really
Speaker 1: translated into the realm of food. So what are sort
Speaker 1: of the connecting steps there? You know, I've got a
Speaker 1: mindfulness practice, I've got an awareness of what's happening with
Speaker 1: me in food, but I don't seem to quite be
Speaker 1: able to bring mindfulness to food. Is it really just
Speaker 1: a matter of as you said earlier, really sort of
Speaker 1: making yourself pause before, during, and after you eat each time,
Speaker 1: and just very consciously bringing mindfulness into that arena.
Speaker 5: Is it that simple?
Speaker 2: That's the first step. Yeah, And then that's what we
Speaker 2: call mindful check in or a mini meditation. But then
Speaker 2: within that there are other awarenesses to cultivate too. Our
Speaker 2: often use the expression what am I bringing to the
Speaker 2: table right now? I do want to agree with you.
Speaker 2: I live near a major meditation center, and I've taught
Speaker 2: mindful eating there actually many years, and I've had many
Speaker 2: clients come that we're practicing mindfulness for years with emotional
Speaker 2: eating issues, binge eating, and it didn't translate, but once
Speaker 2: they learned these more. I like to use the word
Speaker 2: precision because it offers more insight and precision into our
Speaker 2: experience what's happening, and then more insight and then that
Speaker 2: ability to make different choices. So I was mentioning earlier,
Speaker 2: we do it training. The training happens over time. So
Speaker 2: getting really in touch with physical hunger, just physical hunger,
Speaker 2: and then what other triggers, what other kinds of hunger,
Speaker 2: is the emotional, psychological, just other triggers that are happening,
Speaker 2: and that mindful pause helps us to see what are
Speaker 2: we bringing to the table right now? So getting back
Speaker 2: to that what am I bringing here? And noticing frustration
Speaker 2: or stress or anger, just that noticing creates a space
Speaker 2: where we're already out of it a little bit noticing that,
Speaker 2: so that offers a possibility not to eat from the
Speaker 2: middle of that. And I find intention bringing in that
Speaker 2: kind intention for oneself. And in the book there's a
Speaker 2: lot on working with your intention, bringing it in. It's
Speaker 2: like a signpost calling you forward into the future, reminding you,
Speaker 2: letting that your present and the steps that you take
Speaker 2: to remember why are you doing this? So intention is
Speaker 2: one of the keys that is lost or just not
Speaker 2: there for a lot of people. So I mean, it
Speaker 2: can be as simple as I had a client she
Speaker 2: simplified her intention to I want to feel good, and
Speaker 2: it wasn't the kind of good When people over eat
Speaker 2: the very first bites right in the beginning, they might
Speaker 2: feel good, but it doesn't last very long all the feelings,
Speaker 2: both physical being overstuffed, and then the judgment and the
Speaker 2: shame and blame and all of that. So it's a
Speaker 2: very teeny, little short term solution that quickly dissipates. So
Speaker 2: her feeling good was well being balanced. I encourage people
Speaker 2: to bring in positive, energizing words to their intentions. So
Speaker 2: hers was simplified, but it was very powerful for her,
Speaker 2: and it could be a little more complex. Or I'm
Speaker 2: making nourishing choices to support my joy full, well nourished life.
Speaker 2: I really like asking ourselves what is the nourishing choice? Pausing?
Speaker 2: What is the nourishing choice right now?
Speaker 1: So following year five steps, we've got the awareness, so
Speaker 1: we're bringing mindfulness to the moment. Right what am I
Speaker 1: bringing to the table? You know, what am I feeling?
Speaker 1: I've learned to bring a little bit of mindfulness to
Speaker 1: my eating how it feels. You know, I've just I've
Speaker 1: brought more mindfulness to the whole thing. Then I'm aligning
Speaker 1: on intention.
Speaker 5: You know, why does this matter?
Speaker 1: Why do I want to make this choice versus that choice,
Speaker 1: which is always I think important for anything we want
Speaker 1: to do in life. Right, if we don't, we're not
Speaker 1: clear about why, it's difficult to stick to it in
Speaker 1: the challenging moments. And then you talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: step three being skills and tools. Can you give me
Speaker 1: an example of some of the skills and tools that
Speaker 1: we might bring in in this step.
Speaker 2: Yes, the mindful check in is definitely a skills and tool, okay,
Speaker 2: and it falls in awareness of hunger and fullness and
Speaker 2: taste figures all of those things or skills and tools. Actually,
Speaker 2: intention is part of skills and tools as well. Self
Speaker 2: compassion is a really beautiful and big one that pause
Speaker 2: bringing in kindness when one notices the judging thoughts arising
Speaker 2: about the choices when we judge ourselves what we eat.
Speaker 2: And I know many listeners will relate to this if
Speaker 2: they've had something that wasn't what they considered okay to
Speaker 2: eat on their plan. A lot of judgment can kick
Speaker 2: and the thoughts of oh I've blown it, I shouldn't
Speaker 2: have had this, and then kind of helpless whatever, feeling
Speaker 2: amazed We'll have that whole box of cookies or I'm
Speaker 2: off my plan. So first of all, bringing a lot
Speaker 2: of kindness and recognizing these thoughts that are not helpful.
Speaker 2: Another aspect of this work is being able to be
Speaker 2: flexible and throwing away the diet rules and diet mentality
Speaker 2: and diet culture that you're on again or off again.
Speaker 2: You're on a plan, you're not on a plan, you're
Speaker 2: yo yoing and never knowing really how to eat. So
Speaker 2: it's also using good sound, evidence based nutrition and the
Speaker 2: model that I have in my book understanding that we
Speaker 2: call that outer wisdom in MBE and I do professional
Speaker 2: trainings actually for health professionals in MBET and well Nourished coaching.
Speaker 2: They go together really beautifully. But each person looking at
Speaker 2: what is my healthy and wise relationship to the evidence
Speaker 2: based nutrition information that's out there, taking into account personal preferences, needs,
Speaker 2: health needs. People are at different stages of life activity.
Speaker 2: Everybody's individual. There's no one size of course diet or
Speaker 2: one way of eating that works. Whole foods, plant based diets,
Speaker 2: we have a lot of great research that that is
Speaker 2: a reallyy way to eat as a base, but a
Speaker 2: lot of people don't know that plant based can mean
Speaker 2: that there is some animal products in plant based. So
Speaker 2: there's vegan that's a form of plant based where there's
Speaker 2: absolutely no animal products, and then there's different levels of
Speaker 2: plant based that include animal product as well. So someone
Speaker 2: can still have their meat and they're yogurt and but
Speaker 2: be eating predominantly plant based. But recognizing that everybody's different
Speaker 2: and it's not about oh am I paleo or you know,
Speaker 2: am I eating carbs or no carbs? Actually, plant based
Speaker 2: does include naturally a lot of carbs and healthy whole grain,
Speaker 2: whole foods type. But everybody's different. Some will do better
Speaker 2: with a little less, some will do better with more,
Speaker 2: some will do better with more protein. So a lot
Speaker 2: of it is also putting on. I sometimes call it
Speaker 2: your mindful observer hat and knowing what the good evidence
Speaker 2: based information is. And I have a lovely model called
Speaker 2: the will nurshed plate, which is based on the latest
Speaker 2: research that we know that doesn't have different influences in it,
Speaker 2: Like you know, the dairy board. You have to include
Speaker 2: milk in it, and you have to include it meat.
Speaker 2: It's flexible and meeting people where are at so kind
Speaker 2: of using it as a guide, but not at all like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is a plan, but we need to be working
Speaker 2: off of something, and so what better thing to work
Speaker 2: off of a good, sound, evidence based nutrition.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I found that for me in general, it's helpful for
Speaker 1: me to focus on the commonalities between these different plans
Speaker 1: if you look at them. At least for me, I've
Speaker 1: started to see exactly what you're sort of describing, which
Speaker 1: is like, Okay, the bulk of your calorie should come
Speaker 1: from non processed food that's plant based. Not all your calories,
Speaker 1: but a significant portion of it comes that way. And
Speaker 1: from there you're kind of dialing in. Like I've gone
Speaker 1: from vegan to vegetarian, and I recently became I guess
Speaker 1: it's not even that recent pescatarian, because I noticed that
Speaker 1: I needed more protein than I was getting, you know,
Speaker 1: and that I felt better. It just was healthier with
Speaker 1: a little bit of fish in my diet. I'm dis
Speaker 1: corroborating sort of what you said, which is like you
Speaker 1: could start for these basic principles and then sort of
Speaker 1: fine tune to what makes sense for you and avoid
Speaker 1: the incessant fighting over what exact diet plan is the
Speaker 1: best in the world, and focus on some broad concepts
Speaker 1: that can steer us in pretty good directions.
Speaker 2: That's a fabulous summary of that. And processed foods pretty
Speaker 2: much we can all agree highly processed foods ultra processed foods,
Speaker 2: which they'reten referred to the research industry. They may taste good,
Speaker 2: and even when we tune in, they may taste good
Speaker 2: for a short amount of time, but there's definite corroboration
Speaker 2: that does not contribute to health and well being and
Speaker 2: access and actually the less we eat, the better, but
Speaker 2: we don't have to beat ourselves up about it. Through
Speaker 2: mindful eating, one can learn to still include the foods
Speaker 2: that someone wishes to include, but not feel guilty and
Speaker 2: enjoy it celebrated and be able to have the stop button.
Speaker 2: And these practices do help with that tuning in to
Speaker 2: one feel satisfied. There's another practice that we do where
Speaker 2: we notice, and it works so well with processed foods
Speaker 2: that when we really tune in to that potato chip
Speaker 2: or that candy or whatever it is, the taste action
Speaker 2: in that highly processed food where everything's stripped out but
Speaker 2: then sugar and be some fats and some flavorings put in,
Speaker 2: the taste actually goes down fairly quickly, and we tune in,
Speaker 2: we notice that, and we have more information and able
Speaker 2: to make more of a discerning choice. Hunh, Do I
Speaker 2: still want to keep eating this? The pleasure, the flavor
Speaker 2: of it is actually gone? Maybe I've had enough?
Speaker 5: Do?
Speaker 1: You then notice that foods that are not processed tend
Speaker 1: to linger on in flavor a little bit longer. You know,
Speaker 1: it sort of sounds like you're saying the process food
Speaker 1: taste really really good, really strongly, and then kind of
Speaker 1: falls off a cliff. Is a more nutritious food likely
Speaker 1: to maybe not go quite to the same peak, but
Speaker 1: last longer.
Speaker 5: Is that what you notice?
Speaker 2: Yes, great question, It lasts longer. There's a lot more
Speaker 2: complex constituents to a whole processed food, so there is
Speaker 2: more taste, so it doesn't drop off as quickly. But
Speaker 2: what does happen when we tune in? Generally, when we've
Speaker 2: had enough, when we're not hungry physically hungry anymore, food
Speaker 2: stops tasting as good. So when we have a whole meal,
Speaker 2: a plate filled with different foods, different kinds of foods,
Speaker 2: we're getting all kinds of flavors on our tongue, so
Speaker 2: we keep stimulating the taste beds with lots of different
Speaker 2: complex flavors, so it doesn't necessarily fall off as quickly
Speaker 2: as something that it's more stripped of all its natural
Speaker 2: components and it's just a high sugar or high fat food.
Speaker 2: But it still will go down, but not as quickly,
Speaker 2: so which is nice for us. When we learn this
Speaker 2: taste satisfaction or taste satiety awareness, it's another choice point. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so we have choice points throughout the day and here's
Speaker 2: and with our eating and with our self care, just
Speaker 2: any time of the day for filling off, we can
Speaker 2: do this mini meditation or mindful check in and check
Speaker 2: in what is the nourishing choice right now?
Speaker 1: So let's stay with this area a little bit more
Speaker 1: because I think that there's some things we could explore.
Speaker 5: So we talk about.
Speaker 1: Becoming more mindful eating more mindfully, right, it can be
Speaker 1: helpful to have some questions to sort of ask ourselves,
Speaker 1: Like I know, for me, I've learned if I'm meditating
Speaker 1: on a body sensation, for example, I might ask myself
Speaker 1: questions like where exactly is it? How big is it?
Speaker 1: Is it constant or is it changing? You know, Like
Speaker 1: I have some prompts that help me to tune my
Speaker 1: precision in So when it comes to mindful eating, what
Speaker 1: are some of those prompts or questions that I can
Speaker 1: use to help me be more precise about what's happening?
Speaker 1: You know, it seems to me there would be right
Speaker 1: before I eat, there would be the sensations of eating.
Speaker 1: There would be a category that would be, you know,
Speaker 1: how I'm feeling after I'm eating, Like, can you give
Speaker 1: me a couple others in that area that would be
Speaker 1: helpful for people.
Speaker 2: Well, one thing that we haven't talked about is mindful
Speaker 2: eating practices that are specifically tuning in with all of
Speaker 2: our senses. And this is really foundational and I probably
Speaker 2: should have mentioned it right from the beginning along with
Speaker 2: the mini meditation, but it is foundational to the practice
Speaker 2: of mindful eating bringing our full present moment awareness. So
Speaker 2: there's the questions in the beginning, you know, how hungry
Speaker 2: am I? Am I truly physically hungry? What is it
Speaker 2: that I need? And then there's really enjoying and eating
Speaker 2: the food mindfully with full presence, pausing and checking in
Speaker 2: at various times, especially as one is retraining, not sure
Speaker 2: if someone has a habit of eating too much, checking
Speaker 2: in whal eating, what's my hunger level, what's my fullness level?
Speaker 2: How good is the food still tasting? So those kind
Speaker 2: of questions, and then just learning to notice when one
Speaker 2: feels satisfied and good the body. Having some outer wisdom
Speaker 2: in terms of what a plate might look like is
Speaker 2: helpful too to help with portion sizes, and that's all
Speaker 2: very flexible, but tuning in that's something that we don't
Speaker 2: usually learn. You mentioned the working with the body and
Speaker 2: looking at oh there's a sensation, what size, what shape.
Speaker 2: That's a way that we might work with cravings and
Speaker 2: urges that arise. There's a craving practice that is actually
Speaker 2: called in my book surf urges with loving kindness and awareness.
Speaker 2: So it's noticing when there's a strong urge. And this
Speaker 2: is actually often when we're not eating, or we might
Speaker 2: stop and then there's still a big urge and we've
Speaker 2: actually had enough. So taking a pause and noticing where
Speaker 2: that urge is in the body, that craving, noticing its size,
Speaker 2: its shape, what it feels like, and just that again
Speaker 2: begins to take us out of it. We now have
Speaker 2: a bigger perspective, we're in that bird's eye view. And
Speaker 2: then inviting a sense of kindness. And this is a training.
Speaker 2: Mindfulness training is mindful eating training. We always have the
Speaker 2: word trainings because it's something that we're always we continue practicing.
Speaker 2: So we're training on loving kindness, how to bring in
Speaker 2: that sense of kindness and friendliness to ourselves, to others,
Speaker 2: well wishing, and so we can actually bring in a
Speaker 2: sense of kindness to the urge. And this practice that
Speaker 2: I developed. We envelop this urge with loving kindness, and
Speaker 2: it's pretty powerful. It tends to dissipate. It's in my book.
Speaker 2: We now have it in the MB program that's a
Speaker 2: twelve week mindful eating training program. So anyway, there's all
Speaker 2: kinds of insights people can have, but one that's particularly
Speaker 2: powerful is realizing that they were looking for love from
Speaker 2: the food and that urge was driving them and then realizing, ah,
Speaker 2: with this pause, with bringing kindness, compacts and loving kindness,
Speaker 2: I feel really full, I feel really nursed.
Speaker 1: We've given our Instagram account a new look, and we're
Speaker 1: sharing content there that we don't share anywhere else, encouraging
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Speaker 1: of the show and some of Ginny and Iz's day
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Speaker 1: anybody would be interested in. It's also a great place
Speaker 1: for you to give us feedback on the episodes that
Speaker 1: you like, or concepts that you've learned that you think
Speaker 1: are helpful, or any other feedback you'd like to give us.
Speaker 1: If you're on Instagram, follow us it at one Underscore.
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Speaker 1: to your daily scrolling. See you there, talk a little
Speaker 1: bit more about this surfing the urge with loving kindness.
Speaker 1: How do I actually do that? So I'll give you
Speaker 1: an example. This happened to me. I was out to eat.
Speaker 1: I was kind of rushing. So maybe that's problem one,
Speaker 1: but it is what it is. I was kind of
Speaker 1: in a hurry. I was at a restaurant and I
Speaker 1: was eating, and I noticed that I've developed a fairly
Speaker 1: good sense of when I'm going to be full and
Speaker 1: not wanting to go beyond that. As I tuned into it,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I really don't like that feeling. So I'm
Speaker 1: feeling that I'm in that neighborhood, right, I've developed that
Speaker 1: sort of awareness, and yet it's delicious, And so I'm
Speaker 1: noticing now all of a sudden, like one part of
Speaker 1: me going, all right, I think you've probably had enough,
Speaker 1: You've satisfied the amount of food you need to eat,
Speaker 1: and yet another part of me going take another bite,
Speaker 1: take another bite, take another bite. So in that moment,
Speaker 1: if I recognize, okay, there's an urge here that I
Speaker 1: don't want to fulfill. How do I surf that urge
Speaker 1: in that moment?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: How do I bring this into that exact moment where
Speaker 1: it's just really easy to keep lifting the fork right
Speaker 1: to your mouth? So talk to me about surfing the
Speaker 1: urge in like that sort of scenario.
Speaker 2: It's all recognizing it. You have that awareness. You have
Speaker 2: to recognize that it's there, that you have a choice.
Speaker 2: To help kind of settle the attension a little bit,
Speaker 2: you can take a few deep breaths, just bring your
Speaker 2: attention to the breath for a moment or so, and
Speaker 2: then just bring a sense of curiosity. You know, mindfulness
Speaker 2: is a lot about exploring what's happening with a sense
Speaker 2: of curiosity and non judgment and kindness. So just noticing
Speaker 2: that urge, so that's that first. That space then gets created.
Speaker 2: You can just be with it and just keep doing that.
Speaker 2: The traditional kind of surfing the urge is staying with
Speaker 2: that for a moment with your attention, and that feeling
Speaker 2: will go down just like a wave, it will go down.
Speaker 2: But even as it just starts to go down a
Speaker 2: little or even as you're just noticing it, you can
Speaker 2: bring in what we call you're inner wisdom. What are
Speaker 2: some other options too? This is delicious, you're enjoying it,
Speaker 2: you're noticing, you're fairly satisfied, full, You don't really need it.
Speaker 2: Can have a few more bites and just really enjoy
Speaker 2: the taste and celebrate it and not worry about it.
Speaker 2: You know, we don't have any kind of calorie counting
Speaker 2: in this approach, so you don't have to worry like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, that's ten more calories, but to enjoy it.
Speaker 2: So just that's one choice. Another choice might be I
Speaker 2: can bring this home, you know enough, I can enjoy
Speaker 2: another meal, or I can be really clear, I don't
Speaker 2: want to have more, and let's just see what happens
Speaker 2: if I just stay with the search for another moment
Speaker 2: or so, and even bring in a sense of kindness
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 1: It strikes me that it's easy to write off mindfulness
Speaker 1: sometimes is something that's become a cliche. It's easy to
Speaker 1: write it off, is considered a panacea. But really, in
Speaker 1: that moment, right, it is that recognition that there are
Speaker 1: choices here, and even that little bit of pause, you know,
Speaker 1: I found that it's a momentum almost that like next bite,
Speaker 1: next bite, next bite. If I can interrupt that long
Speaker 1: enough to, like you say, recognize that I have a choice,
Speaker 1: and just break the momentum almost by physically just stopping,
Speaker 1: then I've got a much better chance than I do
Speaker 1: if I just kind of don't recognize that and don't
Speaker 1: bring it into actual awareness, you know, very clear.
Speaker 2: Awareness, absolutely, And putting down the fork is helpful too,
Speaker 2: you know, something that is part of some diet programs,
Speaker 2: but here it's just a part of a mindful pause. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, we just put it down, focus on this conversation,
Speaker 2: the connection for a few moments. Satiety can take a
Speaker 2: little while to really kick in, and if we put
Speaker 2: down the fork and pause, we might notice more feelings
Speaker 2: of satisfaction that urge go away. So part of mindfully
Speaker 2: eating is slowly slowing it down. It doesn't mean it's
Speaker 2: always really slow. When we first learn it, we slow
Speaker 2: it down, but we can actually mindfully eat at different paces,
Speaker 2: but slowing it down. I'm often the last person to
Speaker 2: finish at a meal, and I've just been going slower,
Speaker 2: savoring it and eating an amount that feels good to
Speaker 2: me and my body and giving time to pause and
Speaker 2: feel bit so we can slow it down and that
Speaker 2: offers the space for that pause too and to really
Speaker 2: enjoy it. I do want to say another important piece
Speaker 2: of mindful eating, and that is it has to do
Speaker 2: with the outer wisdom too, is bringing awareness to our meals,
Speaker 2: our meal patterns. Are we skipping meals? Are we eating regularly?
Speaker 2: Because part of an overeating pattern, common one, especially over
Speaker 2: eating at night, is skipping meals. And part of that
Speaker 2: is that diet mentality I'm going to be good and
Speaker 2: I'm gonna skip breakfast and I'm just gonna have a
Speaker 2: little lunch. And then by the time somebody gets to
Speaker 2: late afternoon or evening, all they can think about is
Speaker 2: being hungry and food, and so taking care of just that.
Speaker 2: The body needs regular nourishment on a physical level, making
Speaker 2: sure one has those regular meals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's nothing that will cause me to make better
Speaker 1: food choices more than being super hungry. Like if I
Speaker 1: let myself get to the point where I am super hungry,
Speaker 1: maybe it's a blood sugar thing. Partially I'm just like
Speaker 1: where is the snicker Bar factory? But when I'm eating
Speaker 1: more regularly, I'm much more able to make good food choices.
Speaker 1: But if I get too hungry, it crosses this point
Speaker 1: and it's like the bad choice food monster has arrived exactly.
Speaker 2: And so many people beat themselves up for that and
Speaker 2: that feeling of lack of control or poor choices. And
Speaker 2: it's really very basic physiology. It's not that anybody's a
Speaker 2: bad person. That's just what's going to happen. Learning what
Speaker 2: our hunger levels are and not letting ourselves get too
Speaker 2: hungry and when we're eating, actually we enjoy our food
Speaker 2: more when we have a little bit of hunger. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's kind of like a natural flavor enhancer.
Speaker 1: As we're talking, I'm reminded of a model that is
Speaker 1: in a lot of recovery programs, but was particularly in
Speaker 1: twelve step recovery programs, and it's using an acronym called
Speaker 1: halt right, don't allow yourself to get too hungry, angry, lonely,
Speaker 1: or tired. But the point there is what may be
Speaker 1: showing up to you as a craving to drink might
Speaker 1: actually be one of those four other things, right. And
Speaker 1: I think this is a real correlation to your approach,
Speaker 1: which is to say that what is showing up as
Speaker 1: a desire to eat an entire sleeve of Oreo cookies
Speaker 1: might be that I'm needing to be nourished in these
Speaker 1: other ways, and in the same way that little acronym
Speaker 1: of halt allows me to go, Okay, I think I
Speaker 1: want to drink, but is it one of these other things?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Is this recognition of these eight different bodies that need
Speaker 1: to be nourished is a way of also saying the
Speaker 1: same thing. What I think is a food craving could
Speaker 1: be these other things.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And one of the things when I work with
Speaker 2: people is to explore the long list of triggers for
Speaker 2: eating in the different categories. It's not really about being hungry,
Speaker 2: and one is what this example you gave includes physical
Speaker 2: triggers like being tired, fatigued, stressed. I put stress in there,
Speaker 2: which leads to other emotions as well, thirsty. Even sometimes
Speaker 2: people confuse that yeah, just might be physical needs. It
Speaker 2: might be social needs, desires for social connection, or just
Speaker 2: actually just being with social settings and the foods there
Speaker 2: and just that kind of mindless Okay, now I'm going
Speaker 2: to just take the food it's here, not really thinking
Speaker 2: about it, maybe even having it be a comforting anchor well,
Speaker 2: but bringing awareness to this like one could have food
Speaker 2: at a party and maybe just be very mindful about
Speaker 2: what you put on your plate, be mindful about how
Speaker 2: much you really want to have. But yeah, there's so
Speaker 2: many triggers, so physical, triggers, emotional, social, environmental, and bringing
Speaker 2: awareness to these is definitely really helpful.
Speaker 1: Give us just a few more common trigger examples that
Speaker 1: might be triggers that are something else. I mean, you
Speaker 1: gave us some categories there, but what are some specific
Speaker 1: things maybe within categories.
Speaker 2: Well, motions for sure. A typical pattern might be somebody
Speaker 2: having a workday where there's very little break for any
Speaker 2: kind of nourishment and any kind like walking connection, social connection,
Speaker 2: if you're feeling frustrated, maybe having a small meal and
Speaker 2: then for lunch skipping food, going home and seeing a
Speaker 2: box of cookies out or the cupcakes for the kids,
Speaker 2: and just thinking, oh, I deserve this because it's there,
Speaker 2: that's environment. And then there's the thoughts and just going
Speaker 2: ahead and having that without really kind of checking in, well,
Speaker 2: what is it that I really need right now? Oh
Speaker 2: I skipped lunch or I just had a little bit,
Speaker 2: But if I have actually you know, make some good
Speaker 2: nourishing food, and it's really helpful to look back over
Speaker 2: one's day to see what leads up to overeating and triggers.
Speaker 2: It may be not having any breaks, stressful day, our
Speaker 2: thoughts so I deserve it is one big one or
Speaker 2: just you know, as far as a thought goes, there's
Speaker 2: just yeah, so many things. Environments a big one, or
Speaker 2: habits coming home, sitting down, getting a big bag of
Speaker 2: chips or a bowl of popcorn and watching TV. So
Speaker 2: our habits that we have connected with activities in eating,
Speaker 2: We're always having food. It just becomes mindless with a habit,
Speaker 2: So bringing awareness to all these different ways that we're
Speaker 2: eating that are mindless is very helpful.
Speaker 1: I'm sort of now drawing addiction correlations to the addictions
Speaker 1: that I've had, but yeah, I mean, one of the
Speaker 1: things that we do is a very basic exercise is
Speaker 1: to recognize what are my triggers, you know, what are
Speaker 1: the things that typically make me want to have a
Speaker 1: drink or do drugs and identifying what they are and
Speaker 1: then recognizing that you may not be able to eliminate
Speaker 1: all those things, right, but what's going to be your
Speaker 1: response in them? And it's very helpful to kind of
Speaker 1: go through and map that out. And really think a
Speaker 1: little bit about it, like, Okay, yeah, it is really
Speaker 1: after I haven't eaten all day. So it's not about
Speaker 1: fighting a craving at the moment so much as it
Speaker 1: is figuring out how to eat during the day or exactly.
Speaker 1: You know, I get this craving for a drink every
Speaker 1: time I drive by the bar. Well, the wise thing
Speaker 1: to do might be to take a different route home.
Speaker 1: Like it's just sort of being created and thinking about
Speaker 1: these things, and like you said, sort of backing up
Speaker 1: and really noticing kind of what leads up to these moments.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then emotions can be triggers, and I'll use
Speaker 2: the exit, so yes, absolutely backing up, putting in what
Speaker 2: you need in your day so it doesn't lead to this,
Speaker 2: and then we have different emotions. One, I work with
Speaker 2: people often that maybe they're feeling lonely or disconnected, and
Speaker 2: that's where this whole well nourished model comes in, because
Speaker 2: I've worked with them to explore what do they really
Speaker 2: love and what would be activities or ways to bring
Speaker 2: in more social connection. So it might be joining some
Speaker 2: kind of there's just so many things someone could do.
Speaker 2: Could join a book group or join a class, where
Speaker 2: there's a movement, maybe they're needing to move too, but
Speaker 2: whether they're also with other people or join a gym.
Speaker 2: This particular person that I'm thinking of right now lived
Speaker 2: in a big apartment building and they created some social groups.
Speaker 2: There was a need for that, and so addressing feelings
Speaker 2: such as loneliness with actually creating more social connection or
Speaker 2: reaching out to friends that you haven't been in touch with.
Speaker 1: You know, you said this earlier on I'm I'm going
Speaker 1: to kind of come back to it here a little bit,
Speaker 1: which is everybody's a little bit different. You've got to
Speaker 1: find out what it is about you and how you
Speaker 1: actually respond. And I think that, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the other things that goes with mindfulness, and you said
Speaker 1: this yourself exactly is being curious, right, Is that that
Speaker 1: curiosity about what's happening? Why you know, let's say, why
Speaker 1: do I keep engaging.
Speaker 5: In this pattern?
Speaker 1: You know, that curiosity about instead of I'm such a
Speaker 1: you know what, because I keep doing this. It's actually
Speaker 1: when we can pivot from that using some self compassion
Speaker 1: into huh, I wonder why I keep doing that? Is
Speaker 1: you know, the you can learn And the other thing
Speaker 1: that you said that I thought was really good was
Speaker 1: when you said, and we don't worry about being fully
Speaker 1: on or fully off or making a little mistake. We
Speaker 1: simply take it as a new piece of data and
Speaker 1: we learn and go, oh, okay, what's that. And it
Speaker 1: does speak to this getting away from expecting the answer
Speaker 1: to be out there somewhere in this diet plan, this
Speaker 1: diet program, this thing, and instead recognizes that, for at
Speaker 1: least for me, for these things to be sustainable, that
Speaker 1: there is a great deal of inner knowledge that needs
Speaker 1: to sort of happen about me.
Speaker 2: And my response, Yeah, and balance is not static, right,
Speaker 2: I think of those like two scales. There's a movement
Speaker 2: and that completely takes away the rigidity of it's got
Speaker 2: to be this way or that way, all or nothing,
Speaker 2: or I shouldn't have that food. It's okay to have
Speaker 2: that one. We actually remove that label of good and
Speaker 2: bad faing foods. It's so pervasive in diet culture, which
Speaker 2: is what we live in. And I actually like the
Speaker 2: term always foods and sometimes foods because it just it's
Speaker 2: very forgiving and is much more realistic. Yes, I really
Speaker 2: like this movement. It's kind of a dance and it
Speaker 2: flows and it moves, but when learning how to be here,
Speaker 2: rather let's you can't see both my hands in there,
Speaker 2: rather than like this the swinging, but more like this,
Speaker 2: and it's a much more comfortable place to be in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're near the end of our time here. Is
Speaker 1: there any last thing that you feel like is really
Speaker 1: important to this approach that we haven't hit on? Yes,
Speaker 1: or a parting message you would like to leave with you.
Speaker 2: Well, I would like to talk about the creative body
Speaker 2: just for a moment, because people tend to really love
Speaker 2: that body or that aspect of ourselves that need nourishment.
Speaker 2: It's one that is a little neglected in this culture
Speaker 2: as an essential nutrient to be creative. For example, I
Speaker 2: went to school in California and was it Prop thirteen
Speaker 2: or there was some proposition that took away funding when
Speaker 2: I was younger for arts and music and creative programs
Speaker 2: because it just isn't as valued. But creativity is a
Speaker 2: great source of nourishment for people, certainly as well as spirituality.
Speaker 2: Those two pedals are next to each other on that model.
Speaker 2: So I just encourage our listeners out here to think
Speaker 2: about do you feel creatively fulfilled in your life? And
Speaker 2: that doesn't just mean playing music or painting or but
Speaker 2: also there any kind of way that you're expressing creativity
Speaker 2: through hobbies or volunteering or creating projects or nonprofit organization
Speaker 2: or whatever it is, or living life, create getting out
Speaker 2: of the box, getting out of this linear ways of
Speaker 2: the way our days often go, creating more novelty, which
Speaker 2: is very nourishing and actually stimulating to the brain and
Speaker 2: it's great for anti aging two. But eating could be
Speaker 2: one trigger for that, could be if somebody is feeling
Speaker 2: frustrated in their lives without creatively expressing themselves, so starting
Speaker 2: that creative project or hobby or whatever it is. Living
Speaker 2: life when I talk about in the book creativity is
Speaker 2: also the way we live our lives. Can be or
Speaker 2: having a creative date with yourself for a day and
Speaker 2: just kind of go with the flow. And so it
Speaker 2: adds a lot of juice to life and maybe one
Speaker 2: of the missing ingredients as well as of course spirituality
Speaker 2: and however that is important for each person. But I
Speaker 2: do want to mention nature as an incredible resource for
Speaker 2: ourselves to spend time in nature and touch into what
Speaker 2: I call and many of us have heard the term
Speaker 2: true nature. It's always there inside of ourselves. Meditation brings
Speaker 2: us there. Being in nature brings us there. The more
Speaker 2: that we nourish this place and water these seeds, the
Speaker 2: more easier it is to rest in that in the moment,
Speaker 2: in our many choice points during the day.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: That is a beautiful note to end on. We'll have
Speaker 1: links in the show notes to your book and your trainings.
Speaker 5: That you offer. And thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure to talk with you again about
Speaker 1: this really important subject.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Eric. Thank you for having me back. I
Speaker 2: enjoyed being here.
Speaker 3: If what you just heard was helpful to you, please
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