Speaker 1: I think it's important for people to know their roots
Speaker 1: and to know the roots of others. It helps us
Speaker 1: to know aboudy each other.
Speaker 2: Welcome to when You're Invisible. My name is Maria Fernandavis,
Speaker 2: but I know not everyone can roll there are, so
Speaker 2: it's also fine to call me Maria. When You're Invisible
Speaker 2: is my love letter to the working class and others
Speaker 2: who are seemingly invisible in our society. I hope to
Speaker 2: build a community here that will inspire you to have
Speaker 2: generous conversations with others that are different from you, conversations
Speaker 2: that might help you see life in an entirely different way.
Speaker 1: And I had just never heard of Alcatraz, so I
Speaker 1: started looking into it, and that's when the takeover was
Speaker 1: going on, so I went up there. It was the
Speaker 1: winter of nineteen seventy. I ended up going to Alcatraz
Speaker 1: Island for a night.
Speaker 2: WHOA, this is Abby and yes he's talking about that.
Speaker 2: Alcatraz the infamous jail and cal The jail closed in
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three, and Alcatraz Island was essentially just sitting
Speaker 2: there abandoned.
Speaker 1: Alcatraz had been closed down for a number of years
Speaker 1: and was taken over by the American Indian Movement.
Speaker 2: The Indian Pride movement was born in the summer of
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight. It actually began in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Go Minnesota, Hey,
Speaker 2: what's up? The Native American community activists came together to
Speaker 2: fight back against a history of genocide and to change
Speaker 2: the present where they were facing ongoing discrimination and issues
Speaker 2: like high unemployment, slum housing, and racist treatment. Activists fought
Speaker 2: for treaty rights, the reclamation of tribal land, and advocated
Speaker 2: for Native folks in cities dealing with poverty.
Speaker 1: The American Indian Movement they took it over in Alcatraz
Speaker 1: under a federal law that said any surplus US federal
Speaker 1: lands that are not being used shall be turned over
Speaker 1: to Native people in the United States, and the Indians
Speaker 1: took it over as a bargaining ship for better services,
Speaker 1: better healthcare, better education.
Speaker 2: Abby is an Indigenous Chicano Well Plascala Yaki.
Speaker 1: Our greeting is leos and chia maniawo get you malayas
Speaker 1: That means the Creator be with you and have a
Speaker 1: great day.
Speaker 2: He was in college when he took part in this
Speaker 2: historic act of resistance with dozens of fellow Indigenous people.
Speaker 1: I met Floyd Westerman. Everybody knew him as Red Crow,
Speaker 1: who was a singer, and he came and sang at
Speaker 1: my college.
Speaker 2: Red Crow was a Sissiton, Dakota musician and actor. He
Speaker 2: was a vocal advocate for Native American rights and was
Speaker 2: involved in numerous protests.
Speaker 1: Me and another friend introduce ourselves, and he told me
Speaker 1: that you got to go to Alcatraz. That's what's happening.
Speaker 2: And that's how Abby ended up on Alcatraz one cold
Speaker 2: winter night.
Speaker 1: At that moment in time, I felt bad that I
Speaker 1: didn't know more of my culture because everybody seems so
Speaker 1: at ease with their own.
Speaker 2: It was the first time he and many others had
Speaker 2: experienced anything like this.
Speaker 1: They had some music that night, some prayers. So I
Speaker 1: came back with all these stories, meeting all these tribal
Speaker 1: people from all over the country, and it just blew
Speaker 1: open my mind. My Indian pride came back really strong
Speaker 1: from there on ago. This is where it's happening. We're Native. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had come home.
Speaker 2: I love how he says that that he had come home.
Speaker 2: The ideas of homecoming and home building shined through my
Speaker 2: entire interview with Abby In this particular moment, Abby comes
Speaker 2: home to himself, especially in his identity as a native person.
Speaker 2: Finding a home for yourself in community isn't something that
Speaker 2: happens overnight. Abbie's story reminds me that this takes time,
Speaker 2: yet it is possible. It's one of the reasons I
Speaker 2: wanted to talk to him in the first place. Understanding
Speaker 2: yourself and accepting things you know and don't know will
Speaker 2: lead you to a sense of ease and awareness. And
Speaker 2: it's not a point to be reached, but a constant exploration.
Speaker 1: When I look at the world now, I see it
Speaker 1: from all my experiences, and I'm thinking, do I give
Speaker 1: this information too. I'm in a real retrospective kind of
Speaker 1: place looking back and I see the things that I've done.
Speaker 2: What's the biggest or favorite thing that you've passed along?
Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing I've passed along is awareness
Speaker 1: for your immediate surroundings. We've been ignoring ourselves, our own environment,
Speaker 1: but also the people that live in those environments that
Speaker 1: are not like us. Yeah, how do I become a
Speaker 1: good human being and also be good to the natural world?
Speaker 1: What's my relationship? That's awareness?
Speaker 2: When we know who we are we can better understand
Speaker 2: that the world around us and how we relate to others.
Speaker 2: This is a nugget I've taken away from many conversations
Speaker 2: with Abby.
Speaker 1: Is my destiny to be here today, even to be
Speaker 1: with you today, is my destiny to share some of
Speaker 1: the stories that I've had with you, share my knowledge,
Speaker 1: to share my stories.
Speaker 2: I've been lucky to be on the receiving end of
Speaker 2: Abby's wisdom for a while. I met him for the
Speaker 2: first time when I was a recent grad freshly part
Speaker 2: of the New York theater world. Since then, we've done
Speaker 2: a couple plays together, including one where it was a
Speaker 2: cast of two just us. We became friends, and despite
Speaker 2: our more than forty year age difference, we've stayed in touch.
Speaker 2: Abby is now in his seventies. He lives in Chesapeake Bay, Maryland,
Speaker 2: and he has four kids, seven grandkids, and one great grandkid.
Speaker 2: He's done a lot of incredible work in his life.
Speaker 2: I mean some crazy incredible things. He's been a newscaster,
Speaker 2: a firefighter, a professional musician, and he's worked for the
Speaker 2: government for a long time. He acts and writes plays.
Speaker 2: He also works with youth and indigenous youth, in particular
Speaker 2: to teach them traditional environmental knowledge. What do you feel
Speaker 2: like is at the core of everything you do.
Speaker 1: But it's always working with people that make me to change.
Speaker 1: So all the things that I've done, I've been in
Speaker 1: a position to help make that direction happen and the changes.
Speaker 2: I think of Abby's visit to Alcatraz as an awakening
Speaker 2: in his life. It was the impetus for the activism
Speaker 2: he went on to do, the adventures he's been on,
Speaker 2: and the wisdom he's gathered and shared with his family
Speaker 2: and his community. For Abby, it all started by rooting
Speaker 2: himself in his family history and his indigenous identity. That's
Speaker 2: where we are going to start to where are your
Speaker 2: parents from?
Speaker 1: Mom and dad both born in San Diego and their
Speaker 1: parents are from Mexico.
Speaker 2: What parts of Mexico?
Speaker 1: My grandmother, my dad's mom was born in Wuinawato Gebardi.
Speaker 1: I have family. Thought, Oh wow, yeah, so that's my
Speaker 1: dad's side, and then my mom was up in Yaqui
Speaker 1: land in Sona.
Speaker 2: That's incredible. Wait, so are you Yaqui on both sides?
Speaker 2: Just my mom's side, just your mom's side.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Abby's grandparents are all from Mexico, but his mother's side
Speaker 2: is indigenous. They're part of the Yaqui tribe. Indigenous people
Speaker 2: in the Americas occupied the land for at least twenty
Speaker 2: thousand years before settlers arrived. For the Yaqui and many
Speaker 2: other tribes, it was the arrival of the Spanish that
Speaker 2: altered their way of life and threatened their survival.
Speaker 1: We saw the Spanish come in the fifteen hundreds, and
Speaker 1: that's when it started. By the sixteen hundreds that they
Speaker 1: were being colonized. By the seventeen hundreds of the religious side,
Speaker 1: I think the Jesuits, I said die or be baptized,
Speaker 1: and so they took baptism, but they kept their language.
Speaker 1: And then the eighteen hundreds the Franciscans, who were a
Speaker 1: little bit more meaner, and so they said you will
Speaker 1: stop doing this, you will stop doing that. But they
Speaker 1: managed to keep some of the Yaki traditions, spiritual traditions
Speaker 1: and webbed inside the Catholic mass it's the only tribe
Speaker 1: where indigenous spiritual activities are still part of the Catholic tradition.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: The Pascwa dancers, they're a very sacred group of men
Speaker 1: who trained from youngsters outer dance and the interpretations of
Speaker 1: the dance is what it means. That's still part of
Speaker 1: the Catholic tradition down in many of the Yachi churches. Wow.
Speaker 2: The Yaki are known as the only unconquered Indians in America.
Speaker 2: Resistance runs deep in their history.
Speaker 1: They never sent a contract or a peace treaty with
Speaker 1: the Mexican government, and to this day they're still fighting
Speaker 1: the Mexican government.
Speaker 2: The effects of colonialism and poverty have, of course taken
Speaker 2: a great toll. It's one of the reasons that in
Speaker 2: the early nineteen hundreds many Yaki people decided to emigrate
Speaker 2: the southwest of the US, and Arizona in particular became
Speaker 2: a new home for the Yaki. And this was true
Speaker 2: of Abby's family.
Speaker 1: I am originally born and raised in San Diego, California,
Speaker 1: and my family is from southern Tucson, Arizona. As a child,
Speaker 1: I went back and forth to both places. So I
Speaker 1: feel like Arizona is also home because it's a different
Speaker 1: environment from San Diego. But that's where everybody moved. I
Speaker 1: think during the depression they moved that way.
Speaker 2: Those living in the States drew on their history of
Speaker 2: resistance and actually became an important political force. Over the
Speaker 2: course of decades, they rallied to have their presence recognized
Speaker 2: by the American government with a reservation. Eventually, the Yaki
Speaker 2: nation was established in Arizona in nineteen seventy eight. By
Speaker 2: the late twentieth century, the Yaki numbered about twenty five
Speaker 2: thousand in Mexico and three to five thousand in the US.
Speaker 2: While he wasn't raised on the res Abby had relatives
Speaker 2: who were, and he fostered a close relationship with his grandparents,
Speaker 2: who imparted Yaki teachings.
Speaker 1: I wish I could remember more stories from my grandparents.
Speaker 1: They were always talking to My grandfather spoke a lot
Speaker 1: and what I went out once in the County of
Speaker 1: San Diego and he was gathering. He was Atkurandero, So
Speaker 1: I mean he was a cure cured people, and he
Speaker 1: used a lot of herbs and stuff that he found
Speaker 1: and he knew where to go get them. And I
Speaker 1: know now that when you gather medicine from the earth,
Speaker 1: you give thanks, and so you have to pray before
Speaker 1: you take it, and you don't take it all. You
Speaker 1: take what you need. So he was actually saying his
Speaker 1: prayers and talking and telling me that he was doing
Speaker 1: what he's doing. I didn't understand what he was doing.
Speaker 1: I was too young, So I watched him do that once,
Speaker 1: go out and get some herbs by a creek, and
Speaker 1: then I found out later on. It was called yedbade mansu.
Speaker 1: It's a plant that has spectacular healing powers it and
Speaker 1: my mom used it, my grandmother used it. I used
Speaker 1: to use it with my kids, and my daughter grew up, she's, dad,
Speaker 1: do you have any of that voodoo plant? And I said,
Speaker 1: go to antialysis house. She has it in the backyard
Speaker 1: and tell her you want something. Yet it by that wants.
Speaker 1: He just boiled it and it heals cuts, wounds internal external.
Speaker 1: My favorite time was being out with my grandparents, just
Speaker 1: out in the natural world. I loved it. That's incredible.
Speaker 2: While he's always cherished his indigenous roots, his identity was
Speaker 2: also from As the child of immigrants. He was not
Speaker 2: only balancing his indigenous identity with his Mexican identity, but
Speaker 2: he was also navigating his American one. When your identities
Speaker 2: are at odds or in question, there's this feeling of
Speaker 2: being in constant ebb and flow. You can feel ungrounded
Speaker 2: at times. I know this from personal experience. Home becomes
Speaker 2: something you yearn for, a sense of understanding or belonging physically, socially,
Speaker 2: and internally.
Speaker 1: Early on, my parents identified us as Mexican Americans, and
Speaker 1: then my grandparents taught us our Indian ways, or taught me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. It was interesting because I've always had this
Speaker 1: duality in my mind. So when people ask you what
Speaker 1: you were, they automatically said, oh, you're a Mexican. I
Speaker 1: said no, I'm not, and so they yes, you are,
Speaker 1: and I said no, I'm not. I was just a kid.
Speaker 1: So then to stop the fighting and bickering about who
Speaker 1: I was, I would say, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: While you may see yourself as one thing, you are
Speaker 2: very much influenced by your family and society. The outside
Speaker 2: world's oppression and perception can jeopardize your safety and your dignity.
Speaker 2: This affects people individually, but can also harm a whole population,
Speaker 2: leading to widespread erasure and invisibility assimilation.
Speaker 1: In the fifties, in San Diego it was still a
Speaker 1: very kind of a backward town, and so if you
Speaker 1: are Indian, you were treated worse than a dog. If
Speaker 1: you're Mexican, not so bad, but still treated poorly. So
Speaker 1: you tried to say, oh, no, no, no, y'all from
Speaker 1: here we were, but people automatically assumed that you're from Mexico.
Speaker 1: And then we'd go to Mexico across the border and
Speaker 1: they would call us Boschos because we were from California. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we couldn't take. We couldn't win.
Speaker 2: There's no winning on both sides. Coming to terms with
Speaker 2: who you are in your full history and heritage at
Speaker 2: times comes with creating new terms in order to create
Speaker 2: your own agency and space.
Speaker 1: So when I heard the word Chicano and I asked
Speaker 1: about it, my dad goes, that's who we are, and
Speaker 1: so then I took Chicano because it's something that we
Speaker 1: made up that has some historical documentation to it. So
Speaker 1: I grew up as a Chicano, knowing my Indian roots
Speaker 1: right in my Indian side, very strongly identified with that
Speaker 1: from a very young age.
Speaker 2: I identify as Chicana to lots of Mexican Americans do,
Speaker 2: but not all. For a lot of us, it means
Speaker 2: the owning of this complex identity of accepting our mestizo
Speaker 2: or mixed roots and also our americanness. Chicano culture has
Speaker 2: taken on a life of its own. Oftentimes, the chicano
Speaker 2: esthetic is the long nails, the winged eyeliner, the cool,
Speaker 2: chunky jewelry, baggy clothes, and low rider culture and look
Speaker 2: this identity looks like and means different things depending on
Speaker 2: where you are and who you are. It's awesome that
Speaker 2: it also has such a distinct and unique boy because
Speaker 2: there's so much pride that people take in it. But today,
Speaker 2: when you see Chicano's portrayed, you will often learn about
Speaker 2: these front facing parts of the culture, and you don't
Speaker 2: hear as much about the origins of the term and
Speaker 2: its connection to indigenous identity. Abby loved this word because
Speaker 2: it drew on its roots. But even though most Mexican
Speaker 2: people are part indigenous, not everyone connects to that side
Speaker 2: of them. You know, in my own family, we've been
Speaker 2: slow to acknowledge that and to learn what our indigenous
Speaker 2: Mexican lineage is. When I do see Mexican indigenous practices
Speaker 2: make it into the mainstream, maybe it's using stage or bruchadia,
Speaker 2: it's great, but it can also feel generalized. I love
Speaker 2: that people want to claim this, but it can feel
Speaker 2: one size fits all, rather than being rooted in specific histories,
Speaker 2: traditions or tribes, and I find myself craving that information. Miyah,
Speaker 2: it's no one's faults. I'm talking about this because I'm
Speaker 2: wondering for myself, how do I want to move forward
Speaker 2: with my identity and my practice. It's layered and complicated.
Speaker 2: It may sound like I'm an authority on this, but no,
Speaker 2: this is a conversation. I love the idea of creating
Speaker 2: new traditions, but I also want to know what it
Speaker 2: means for the wider population and culture. A lot of
Speaker 2: this historical knowledge about our traditions has been lost over
Speaker 2: time and erased systemically.
Speaker 1: People didn't really care about the elders and what they
Speaker 1: knew in the language. We lost our language tremendously. We
Speaker 1: lost our language through assimilation and through If you went
Speaker 1: to a boarding school, they beat it out.
Speaker 2: Of you, and like quite literally too, not justmitally and mentally,
Speaker 2: but physically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are adults my age who are still traumatized
Speaker 1: by that experience in the boarding schools, mostly run by
Speaker 1: religious organizations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for a period of almost one hundred years, US
Speaker 2: Native children were forcibly taken from their homes to quote
Speaker 2: unquote schools where they were punished for speaking their native
Speaker 2: language or showing signs of their culture in any way.
Speaker 2: Many were abused physically, sexually, emotionally. Also, many children never
Speaker 2: returned home and their fates have yet to be accounted
Speaker 2: for by the US government. The idea was to kill
Speaker 2: the Indian, save the man.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I think the nineteen seventies that
Speaker 1: my family finally woke up again. Right because the seventies
Speaker 1: changed started the sixties. As we went into the seventies,
Speaker 1: that was a game changer.
Speaker 2: Thank God for this game changing movement. The seventies is
Speaker 2: when Indian pride was thriving and when Abby made his
Speaker 2: way to Alcatraz. Even though Abby's grandparents planted a seat
Speaker 2: inside him by teaching him yacky ways as a young boy.
Speaker 2: There were so many factors preventing its growth, but eventually
Speaker 2: it bleomed. When you ground yourself in your identity and
Speaker 2: really embrace the world you come from culturally, racially, nationally,
Speaker 2: your roots can reach deep and help keep you solid
Speaker 2: even when the tough moments come. A feeling of home
Speaker 2: and a strong sense of identity also become so important
Speaker 2: in the face of erasure. When the wider world doesn't
Speaker 2: want to see you. It becomes vital to create spaces
Speaker 2: to see yourself and look. Identity isn't everything, but I
Speaker 2: know for me it has helped to guide how I
Speaker 2: see the world and it brought me self worth when
Speaker 2: people threatened to make me feel otherwise. And that's what
Speaker 2: the Indian Pride movement did for Abby. It was a
Speaker 2: homecoming for so many people. When Abby experienced this, he
Speaker 2: started thinking about the world in new ways. It encouraged
Speaker 2: his path as an activist. That's coming after the break
Speaker 2: an hour're back. Abby's trip to Alcatraz and his embrace
Speaker 2: of the Indian Pride movement awakened not only a sense
Speaker 2: of a warm, reliable home, it also offered a new
Speaker 2: understanding of how his people viewed their collective role in
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 1: Our indigenous ways teaches to be a better person than
Speaker 1: that it can be. It's a respect that you have
Speaker 1: for yourself and other human beings, but also for the
Speaker 1: natural world too. Those are the things that reverberate in
Speaker 1: my soul all the time. I thought, that's where I
Speaker 1: could claim that came from. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: His desire to make the world a better place also
Speaker 2: resonated with the values he was raised with. Abby's family
Speaker 2: is actually filled with genations of activists, which is what
Speaker 2: I found insanely cool and such a privilege to come from.
Speaker 2: He actually starts the story with his grandfather, my.
Speaker 1: Grandfather, my mom's dad. He already had that sense of revolution.
Speaker 1: He was a young man from the Mexican Revolution, and
Speaker 1: he was a bugler. And if you know anything about
Speaker 1: the war, whether it was a drama or a bugle,
Speaker 1: the bugler sounded the decisions. Okay, certain sounds and go
Speaker 1: forward or back up or retreat. And so the buglers,
Speaker 1: just like in Vietnam, the radio guys for the first people,
Speaker 1: they should try to shoot because you cut communication. So
Speaker 1: he got shot in the face and came to recuperate
Speaker 1: in the United States.
Speaker 2: He moved to Arizona, where he met Abby's grandmother. They
Speaker 2: were farm workers, and Abby's grandfather was always trying to
Speaker 2: build power with others.
Speaker 1: My grandmother would be carrying one child two in her
Speaker 1: cotton sack, and she's picking cotton and she turns around.
Speaker 1: And as my grandfather organizing people and talking politics and
Speaker 1: philosophical things.
Speaker 2: It was hard to get work though. So the whole
Speaker 2: family moved from Arizona to California.
Speaker 1: He was living in a town called Lemon Grove, which
Speaker 1: is a part of the city of San Diego. And
Speaker 1: in Lemon Grove they were picking lemons for ten cents
Speaker 1: an hour. And see he organized the union called Obrerosi
Speaker 1: Campesinos nineteen thirty five and they went on strike for
Speaker 1: ten cents more an hour, and they won the strike.
Speaker 2: Abbi's grandfather used his revolutionary heart to be a part
Speaker 2: of the fight for the farm workers, but it wasn't
Speaker 2: the only thing he got involved in. While laborers were
Speaker 2: fighting for better wages and working conditions, Latinos and Natives
Speaker 2: were also fighting against segregation.
Speaker 1: The governor of California at the time was trying to
Speaker 1: deal with education. They were building up the public schools,
Speaker 1: but they didn't want Mexicans or Indians in their school
Speaker 1: or Native people, so he deemed that we were a
Speaker 1: federal issue, so we didn't have to go to their school.
Speaker 1: So they put all the Mexicans and natives that in
Speaker 1: one building and they built a brand new school for
Speaker 1: the white kids. And my grandfather sent his kids. He said, no,
Speaker 1: you go to the new school.
Speaker 2: The kids his grandfather is talking about are Abby's mom
Speaker 2: and her st blings. This is not far from Abbey
Speaker 2: or our recent history.
Speaker 1: They turned them around. No, you're not coming to the school.
Speaker 1: You're brown. You're brown, your white come in. So they
Speaker 1: boycotted the school. They organized a boycott and shut down
Speaker 1: the school. And that case when they went to court
Speaker 1: in San Diego, my grandmother very had a lot of
Speaker 1: pride and she was not embarrassed. But they were poor
Speaker 1: and if I if you ever saw pictures of my
Speaker 1: uncles when they're in their childhood, they got these rough
Speaker 1: looking clothes. She made a lot of their own clothes,
Speaker 1: but they had no shoes. So my grandfather went to
Speaker 1: court with the attorney that he knew, and he said,
Speaker 1: her son's gonna have to go testify how they treated them.
Speaker 1: And my grandmother didn't want her kids to go in
Speaker 1: court with their clothes that they had. And they knew
Speaker 1: a family called the Alvarez family, and the kid had
Speaker 1: shoes and a suit. So they put the Alpharez versus
Speaker 1: the Board of Education and they went to court and
Speaker 1: they won that it was unconstitutional for them to separate
Speaker 1: these American citizens from going to school. And when the
Speaker 1: Brown versus the Board of Education the National Trial for segregation.
Speaker 1: They referenced that case, my grandfather's case into the Brown
Speaker 1: Versus Board of Education.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I feel a little ashamed that I wasn't taught
Speaker 2: these stories early on. I only learned them from conversations
Speaker 2: like these, whether it was with my brother, my friend Sophie,
Speaker 2: who's a Builo was also involved Abby, and then eventually
Speaker 2: the books I picked up, like an African American and
Speaker 2: LATINX History of the United States. These moments root me.
Speaker 2: This is where we come from, from a tradition that
Speaker 2: fought to protect everyone. Knowing these stories can help give
Speaker 2: us direction in our moral and societal compass. I'm always
Speaker 2: asking myself what do we want to leave behind for
Speaker 2: our loved ones and the generations after us. These are
Speaker 2: some of the questions at the heart of this podcast.
Speaker 2: And I think about the moments and the cases that
Speaker 2: led to big, momentous change, and that they were because
Speaker 2: of the bravery of everyday people. I especially love hearing
Speaker 2: about the Indigenous and LATINX people we don't always learn
Speaker 2: the names of who had an incredibly grounded sense of
Speaker 2: fighting for what's right. I can't believe how lucky I
Speaker 2: am to know and sit down with someone from this
Speaker 2: incredible legacy.
Speaker 1: It was a big deal back then. When you're part
Speaker 1: of it. It's a story that's handed down and handed
Speaker 1: and talked about, but you didn't think it was history
Speaker 1: at all, till now we look back and go, oh,
Speaker 1: my God, for this thing.
Speaker 2: His parents grew up around that, and so did Abby,
Speaker 2: and they all wanted to be a part of making
Speaker 2: a better future too.
Speaker 1: Having known that history. My dad was in the Union,
Speaker 1: my mom was in union, so I grew up around unionism.
Speaker 1: So when I was in high school and a guy
Speaker 1: came to talk about the Great Boycott, and I said wow,
Speaker 1: So I went to go find out more information about
Speaker 1: the grape boycott.
Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty five, over eight hundred workers in Delano, California,
Speaker 2: took part in the grape strike for better wages and
Speaker 2: basic labor rights.
Speaker 1: And I went to a meeting and they go, oh,
Speaker 1: we're looking for somebody with a station where I got
Speaker 1: to take some food to the strikers in Delano. I
Speaker 1: thought about it, and I said, I have a station wing,
Speaker 1: but I don't think my mom's going to let me
Speaker 1: drive it to Delano from San Diego. So they go,
Speaker 1: I ask her. So I asked my mom. She said no,
Speaker 1: So I went. I was there. They didn't have wherewial
Speaker 1: that nobody had a truck or so, I said, literally
Speaker 1: in my car and we took off and I took
Speaker 1: off to Deleno early one morning, dropped the food off,
Speaker 1: came back, and my mom didn't know until she saw
Speaker 1: the credit card. I used her mobile credit card for gas.
Speaker 1: She wasn't mad. So then right away they weren't mad
Speaker 1: at me. They were just like surprise that I was
Speaker 1: getting political at such a young age. Mom is a
Speaker 1: farm workers that though was a farm worker. I'm just
Speaker 1: helping our people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of us can agree that immigrants,
Speaker 2: especially Latin migrants, do a lot of the intense manual
Speaker 2: labor in this country. Work that's long hours, severely underpaid,
Speaker 2: and often in dangerous conditions. They're often forgotten in our society.
Speaker 2: They are labors underappreciated, and the workers themselves are seen
Speaker 2: as very passive. Yes, the exploitation of these workers still exists,
Speaker 2: but Latinos have done a lot to fight for their rights.
Speaker 2: There are many inspiring examples in history where these folks
Speaker 2: have taken action to change their circumstances.
Speaker 1: And then I went back again with my brother and
Speaker 1: we're all in college in our first years of college,
Speaker 1: and we went up there to delaye or to check
Speaker 1: it out. We ran at Assessor Travis and we're just like,
Speaker 1: awe struck.
Speaker 2: If you don't already know him, Cesar Chaois is someone
Speaker 2: I'd definitely recommend looking up. He was an incredible Latino
Speaker 2: activist and labor leader who co founded the National farm
Speaker 2: Workers Association now called United farm Workers. He emphasized non
Speaker 2: violent tactics. He was also involved with the Mourriento Istulenti
Speaker 2: Chicano the asset Lan, which translates to the Chicano student
Speaker 2: movement of Assetlan. It was all about Chicano unity and power.
Speaker 2: Abby followed his lead and got more involved with these movements.
Speaker 2: He kept turning out to actions in support of farm workers.
Speaker 1: We came back a couple months later for a rally
Speaker 1: in the Valley in Coachella and for me, Cochella people, oh,
Speaker 1: it's a party place. Now. Coachella was the hub of
Speaker 1: where the fight was in some of the first contracts
Speaker 1: for the United farm Workers. So it was just a
Speaker 1: combination of working people who sacrificed a lot. It was
Speaker 1: not easy work. And when we were striking in Coachella
Speaker 1: it was one hundred and fifteen hundred and twenty degrees
Speaker 1: and I can imagine the workers are working in that
Speaker 1: we're standing out there. It was killing us.
Speaker 2: But they won. The workers in Coachella got a new contract,
Speaker 2: and then Abby and other organizers moved on to the
Speaker 2: next farm, allowing the movement to ripple across the area.
Speaker 1: The strike moved to Arvin Early Mark, closer to the Leno,
Speaker 1: and then we went to Arvin Lamont area and I
Speaker 1: got beat up on a picket line. What yeah, there
Speaker 1: was at the Giumara vineyards. They came out with sticks
Speaker 1: and all that, and they and we're non violent. That it
Speaker 1: was the true test of nonviolence in my part because
Speaker 1: I was I love to fight it in those days.
Speaker 1: I had a flag and I was blocking his He
Speaker 1: had a handle from a tool and he kept hitting me,
Speaker 1: trying to hit me, and I fell in the ditch.
Speaker 1: I said, you're going to prison. He stopped, and when
Speaker 1: I got up there was a sheriff sitting there in
Speaker 1: his car watching the whole thing. And he was a
Speaker 1: famous sheriff dodge, white hair guy with a cowboy hat
Speaker 1: and cowboy boots from a current county, and he was
Speaker 1: waiting first see who got beat up first, and then
Speaker 1: he was going to come up.
Speaker 2: It's hard to swallow the fact that so many nonviolent
Speaker 2: movements are met with violence. It's such an act of
Speaker 2: bravery to show up again and again knowing this. So
Speaker 2: many people lost their homes and were blackballed from working
Speaker 2: at other farms. But in the end, the workers got
Speaker 2: forty big growers to sign a new contract. This was
Speaker 2: a huge win.
Speaker 1: When the strike was over, Caesar was asking us, so
Speaker 1: what do you want to do, And I said, I
Speaker 1: want to work for the union, but I want to
Speaker 1: go back and I want to finish college. He says, no,
Speaker 1: got to make up your mind. I said, well, Caesar,
Speaker 1: I want to stay with the union. He was okay,
Speaker 1: but I want to finish college. You got to pick one.
Speaker 1: You can't serve two masters, you have to pick one.
Speaker 1: I go, oh wow, okay. So then my brother had
Speaker 1: already talked to Caesar, so what are you going to do?
Speaker 1: And he goes, I'm staying. So I went home and
Speaker 1: my brother stayed with the un And that's where he
Speaker 1: met Caesar's daughter Anna and then and then they got married.
Speaker 2: Not only was Abby present, but he's family with these
Speaker 2: labor activist giants. I think a huge takeaway for me
Speaker 2: is really understanding this concept of coming home to your
Speaker 2: community and your purpose in life. We build community and
Speaker 2: home all the time locally. The pride we gain from
Speaker 2: these stories can ground us further in what we love
Speaker 2: and need to be strong together. Part of this legacy
Speaker 2: still carries some erasure, even without meaning to today when
Speaker 2: we look back, sometimes we celebrate the Latino community and
Speaker 2: forget the fact that this was also a coalition of
Speaker 2: Native people, or that a lot of the principles we
Speaker 2: use when organizing are rooted in our indigenous traditions and
Speaker 2: views of the world. We are indeed interconnected. There's so
Speaker 2: many shades of our community and Chicano Native and everything
Speaker 2: in between. Well hear the ways that Abbi has worked
Speaker 2: to cultivate, preserve, and share Native history with the next generation.
Speaker 2: After this break, welcome back to when You're Invisible. Since
Speaker 2: that night at Alcatraz, Abbi has been on this lifelong
Speaker 2: journey to reconnect with his native roots. Not only has
Speaker 2: he undertaken a constant exploration of where he comes from,
Speaker 2: but he's also become a steward of this information. He's
Speaker 2: learned about indigenous language, food, and history. He participates in
Speaker 2: sweat lodges and ceremonies, convenes with Native folks from across
Speaker 2: the Americas to exchange ideas and write together, and he
Speaker 2: keeps close ties with family. He even teaches traditional environmental
Speaker 2: knowledge to kids and educators across the US, integrating math
Speaker 2: and science curriculm alongside an appreciation for plants and animals.
Speaker 2: Over the years, the Yacky Reservation in Arizona has remained
Speaker 2: a home base for him, a place where he can
Speaker 2: go to reflect and deepen his knowledge.
Speaker 1: I know when I go to Arizona, there's something happens
Speaker 1: to me. I went to the church that I used
Speaker 1: to go to with my grandmother. It's on the tahonah
Speaker 1: Autham Reservation. It's called Santabier the Mission. And as soon
Speaker 1: as I went in there, I felt all the generations
Speaker 1: of people that have been going there for hundreds of years,
Speaker 1: and I started to cry. It was just it just
Speaker 1: it was overwhelming, that that sense of remembering it was
Speaker 1: good and bad, but it just I started to cry.
Speaker 1: I started to feel like, wow, this is It was
Speaker 1: just overwhelming, the feeling I got. I've had homes in
Speaker 1: California and now I have a home in other states.
Speaker 1: It's just a place of mind in my heart that's
Speaker 1: still there. So that's what the residts do more than
Speaker 1: more of the people know, because at one time, you
Speaker 1: can imagine this whole country, there was no fences here,
Speaker 1: there was no maps, there was no roads.
Speaker 3: It was just.
Speaker 1: Territory that people knew. I go here for winter, I
Speaker 1: go here for the spring, I go hunting here. We
Speaker 1: grow here. It's the last of the seed that we had.
Speaker 2: This is a beautiful reminder of what the land we
Speaker 2: all live on once was. Abby's experience also reminds me
Speaker 2: that we can always be growing and learning, that we
Speaker 2: can be the ones who heal or change the trajectory
Speaker 2: not just of our own lives, but of the ones
Speaker 2: of the generations to come. Do your kids identify as native?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah? Oh yeah. Now they wish we had more
Speaker 1: reds connection because I've had a semi connection and they
Speaker 1: don't have that at all to work off of.
Speaker 2: What traditions do you guys feel like you carry most gosh.
Speaker 1: I think it would be I tell my sound songs.
Speaker 1: He goes with me more to advance that I'm aster
Speaker 1: go pray or do a land of acknowledgement or an
Speaker 1: opening prayer or bless uh. There's a lot of environmental
Speaker 1: things that go on here that they ask me to come.
Speaker 1: He'll go with me, and since he was a kid,
Speaker 1: he's my entourage. He'll hold a when we're Bernie Sage
Speaker 1: while I'm talking and he'll keep it lit and I'll
Speaker 1: do my prayers and he's there to help. So he's
Speaker 1: learned that kind of thing of sharing prayer.
Speaker 2: Are you passing on your stories to your kids? Have
Speaker 2: you passed them on?
Speaker 1: I do every time I try to think, here's another story, Dad,
Speaker 1: we know that one five times? Okay, good, un least
Speaker 1: you know it. Yeah. So I tried to share those
Speaker 1: stories and I share it with my grandkids. They're old
Speaker 1: enough now to remember a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2: We've all rolled our eyes out, our parents, our grandparents before.
Speaker 2: But these stories are a form of oral history. With
Speaker 2: how much has been lost from previous generations, there's an
Speaker 2: added sense of urgency to share and listen. Because Abby
Speaker 2: struggled with his identity growing up, he wanted to cultivate
Speaker 2: a sense of home for his kids that they would
Speaker 2: always be able to access inside themselves.
Speaker 1: As I grew older and I became grounded in knowing
Speaker 1: who I am. That mean me a stronger person because
Speaker 1: of the wealth of knowledge that I've gathered through my
Speaker 1: own life and plus what I know from what my
Speaker 1: grandparents and my uncles and aunts told us. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: makes me understand a little bit more about life in
Speaker 1: the history of our people. If you don't know your history,
Speaker 1: you're going to be lost.
Speaker 2: When you feel like you don't belong somewhere or anywhere,
Speaker 2: it can be isolating. Or if you feel like your
Speaker 2: people weren't good people, you can feel like why should
Speaker 2: I try? Or I have nothing to be proud of.
Speaker 2: But I think stories like Abby's are part of American history,
Speaker 2: Chicano history, Native history that anyone can choose to be
Speaker 2: proud of. We can be proud of those in our lineage,
Speaker 2: familiarly or socially that made things happen, and we can
Speaker 2: drust from them no matter what your history is. I
Speaker 2: think this is a lesson we can all take away,
Speaker 2: and it's never too late. What would you say to
Speaker 2: someone who's still going through the process of finding themselves
Speaker 2: and grounding themselves.
Speaker 1: It's not overnight. I think it's important to keep learning
Speaker 1: as much as you can about your past, talk to people,
Speaker 1: talk to relatives and see what their perspective is on it,
Speaker 1: and then make up your own mind who you want
Speaker 1: to be because you are who you are.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like people have this knowledge? Do you
Speaker 2: feel like my generation has this information?
Speaker 1: I think this generation there's more of an empathy for
Speaker 1: all people, not so much the history of it, and
Speaker 1: then once they find out the history of it, it
Speaker 1: strengthens their result.
Speaker 2: Slowly but surely, though, knowledge is becoming more accessible, and
Speaker 2: among Native people it's giving way to a sense of discovery, reclamation,
Speaker 2: and homecoming on a whole new scale.
Speaker 1: Everybody's going back heavily into their language, so more and
Speaker 1: more speakers are happening. My younger brother takes classes and
Speaker 1: know what. You can take classes online, you can take
Speaker 1: classes in the schools. In Pasquayaki, there's classrooms to get
Speaker 1: back the language. Because without the language, you lose who
Speaker 1: you are, you lose your culture, and that's the European method.
Speaker 1: You take away the language and culture and that's how
Speaker 1: you disseminated people.
Speaker 2: Like my family has both European and indigenous roots and
Speaker 2: thinking about it, Oh, the tongue that we think is
Speaker 2: our native tongue, Spanish is not actually our mother tongue.
Speaker 2: Like there's a step further and how much that has
Speaker 2: been assimulated or taken away.
Speaker 1: That's what happened in the seventies as well. A lot
Speaker 1: of the Chicano and Mexican Americans realize that we're indigenous,
Speaker 1: our colonizers' language is Spanish, and so a lot of
Speaker 1: people went back into the dance, to the foods, to
Speaker 1: the language. They sing it in the songs and our
Speaker 1: ceremonies when we do sweat lodge, make you us sing
Speaker 1: songs that are what So we are trying to get
Speaker 1: our culture, our language back.
Speaker 2: Growing up, one of the ways I learned about my
Speaker 2: culture roots was through food at home or on trips
Speaker 2: to Mexico. We'd learn why each part of the country
Speaker 2: has its unique cuisine. For instance, there's deep agricultural traditions
Speaker 2: of eating venison in the Yucatan or eating steak in Chihuahua.
Speaker 2: We also learned about the different mayisas we used and
Speaker 2: so much more. When we connect back to our culture
Speaker 2: like this, we can also gain something really fundamental and
Speaker 2: intuitive in our bodies.
Speaker 1: The foods that we eat, our European style that retavic
Speaker 1: and has retavioc with Indigenous people for decades and decades.
Speaker 1: A lot of us don't know what we're allergic to
Speaker 1: wheat because our indigenous we didn't have that. We had corn,
Speaker 1: and we had beans and tomato. You know, we had
Speaker 1: our indigenous language, which happens to be gluten free.
Speaker 2: This return to listening to native ways was some thing
Speaker 2: Abby's ancestors could only imagine.
Speaker 1: My grandfather talked about that jesuys people don't listen to us.
Speaker 1: They listen to us, but not enough. And someday that
Speaker 1: will change. And we see that happening now at the
Speaker 1: federal level, at the state levels, at local levels, more
Speaker 1: and more efforts to communicate and bring all the people
Speaker 1: to the table.
Speaker 2: Not only are Native folks empowering themselves with knowledge, they're
Speaker 2: trying to share it with the world. Native people have
Speaker 2: an understanding and a sense of home on the planet,
Speaker 2: but I think many people lack today after so many
Speaker 2: centuries of erasure and oppression. I think more people are
Speaker 2: starting to look towards Indigenous folks for ways to cope
Speaker 2: with issues like capitalism and climate change.
Speaker 1: It's sad, and it's also happy that we're still here, though.
Speaker 1: See everything the government designed was to eliminate us, but
Speaker 1: we're still here. It's twenty twenty four and we're still
Speaker 1: here and resilient as ever.
Speaker 2: Ever since I met Abby almost ten years ago, he's
Speaker 2: always seen. I'm so sure of what he believes and
Speaker 2: who he is, and that was reinforced by what I
Speaker 2: learned when I interviewed him. But in having this longer conversation,
Speaker 2: I also understood that, of course there are still times
Speaker 2: where he feels dismissed or unseen. It's part of the
Speaker 2: reason he cultivates such result. When do you feel invisible?
Speaker 1: I feel invisible in this community many times, because I
Speaker 1: think people are very judgmental. In the community I live in,
Speaker 1: it's very I think it's not in ninety percent white,
Speaker 1: And so when I go places and do things, if
Speaker 1: I'm standing someplace and people walk through me, I have
Speaker 1: to I remind I'm standing here. Yeah, oh I didn't
Speaker 1: see you. So I have to remind people I'm standing here,
Speaker 1: and now if you're in a suit, people will not
Speaker 1: bother you that way if you're dressed casual. I feel
Speaker 1: invisible at time. I have to go out of my
Speaker 1: way to where I had do something. So I feel
Speaker 1: invisible times in this community that I live in, but
Speaker 1: not everywhere I go. I'm out a visits.
Speaker 2: Abby has taught me about being open to and aware
Speaker 2: of the world around us, and it's an unpleasant truth
Speaker 2: that as much as you work at that, it won't
Speaker 2: always be reciprocated. But he's never been one to wait
Speaker 2: around for external validation. His energy is better spent and
Speaker 2: reciprocated when he creates meaningful bonds and community.
Speaker 1: Here in Maryland, there's one tribe left, but there's because
Speaker 1: it's DC. I've met people from twenty different tribes here
Speaker 1: right because DC brings people to work here in the governments.
Speaker 1: So we have a vibrant community and it's in pockets everywhere,
Speaker 1: but it's functioning and even bringing in the Native Indigenous
Speaker 1: people from South America. We have a loose group called
Speaker 1: the Blended Water and it represents artists want to be writers,
Speaker 1: aspiring actors, playwrights, and we get together every couple of
Speaker 1: months and we read each other's place, and we give
Speaker 1: talkbacks and stuff, and we have pot lucks, we'll have
Speaker 1: some prayer. Sometimes there's a sweat, So we're trying to
Speaker 1: incorporate and keep the Native community strong and vibrant.
Speaker 2: These gatherings are fulfilling on a personal level, a communal level,
Speaker 2: but also professionally. Meeting like this with other writers and
Speaker 2: actors inspires his own work as an artist. His work
Speaker 2: often centers around Indigenous stories and experiences. When do you
Speaker 2: feel most seen.
Speaker 1: When I have the stage, when I have the mic,
Speaker 1: I think being able to have something to say and
Speaker 1: so people are focused on you. And it's not an
Speaker 1: ego thing. I don't need that to survive. But I
Speaker 1: feel most listened to when I'm on a stage, whether
Speaker 1: I'm singing or acting or talking.
Speaker 2: Aby and I relate on this point. I mean the
Speaker 2: stage is where we first got to know each other.
Speaker 2: We both found theater to be a beautiful way to
Speaker 2: create connection and visibility, the space where we can breathe
Speaker 2: together and where people can be seen in their full selves.
Speaker 2: Of course, there are different ways to cultivate that feeling
Speaker 2: and wherever you find it, then creating a space for
Speaker 2: others to feel full and seen is an honor and
Speaker 2: one of the most beautiful and important parts of our
Speaker 2: human experience. What's something that you think would make the
Speaker 2: world a better place that you would like to share
Speaker 2: with us.
Speaker 1: I think we're in a hurry. If we just slow
Speaker 1: down and think it out, maybe we won't be so
Speaker 1: impetuous with each other. I think being cognizant of other
Speaker 1: people's feelings, other people's thinking, we all don't think the same.
Speaker 1: We have to also give space for that, those communication
Speaker 1: gaps that we have. And I think sharing our humanity
Speaker 1: with each other and being human with each other, we're
Speaker 1: not enemies when we look at it. The same thing
Speaker 1: we breathe air, we need food, we need water. We
Speaker 1: all need the same things that live. What is it
Speaker 1: that we can't agree on?
Speaker 2: Abby is a fountain of information, and despite the immense
Speaker 2: knowledge and experience he carries with him, something I noticed
Speaker 2: is that he's never judgmental, and he never acts like
Speaker 2: he's bubby when you talk to him, and as you're learning,
Speaker 2: he's always willing to share and be curious, and he
Speaker 2: has this gentle disposition to correct me when my own
Speaker 2: bias shows. For instance, at one point I was asking
Speaker 2: him about Yaki history, and I said, can you tell
Speaker 2: me about how they were? And he said, you mean
Speaker 2: are we are here? And I was looking right at
Speaker 2: him and had not acknowledged them. It's heartbreaking to feel
Speaker 2: how invisibilizing people can be so ingrained, even when they're
Speaker 2: your own people. One of the first steps of resistance
Speaker 2: is working through the micro ways we hurt ourselves and
Speaker 2: each other. I think of how resistance and resilience exist
Speaker 2: in the acts we choose every day, whether it's to research,
Speaker 2: to say a prayer asking permission from the earth, to
Speaker 2: take something really seeing the people around us. There are
Speaker 2: so many ways to be present and to be actively connected.
Speaker 2: So many of us feel lost, especially in a seemingly
Speaker 2: ever tumultuous time, and Abbi's story is an example of
Speaker 2: how we can move through our lives with grace and curiosity.
Speaker 2: Abbi has taught me how coming home to ourselves, our history,
Speaker 2: and our sense of connection and community can really help
Speaker 2: root our lives in a sense of purpose, action, and kindness.
Speaker 2: Next week, we'll be listening to young Latina in New
Speaker 2: York City who feels like she has a lot to
Speaker 2: give the world, but hasn't always been seen.
Speaker 3: The hardest thing for me was for people to understand
Speaker 3: that I want to grow and they don't give you
Speaker 3: the opportunity to grow or to show what you're truly
Speaker 3: capable of, because they set such limitations to you.
Speaker 2: Yahira was a team mom who has been underestimated time
Speaker 2: and time again. But whether at school, at home, or
Speaker 2: today at work in the service industry, she's determined to
Speaker 2: prove how far her skill and ambition can take her.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to When You're Invisible.
Speaker 2: Please leave us a rating and a review to let
Speaker 2: us know what you think. You can find this episode
Speaker 2: and future ones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. When You're Invisible is a
Speaker 2: production of iHeart Podcasts and my Pudura podcast Network. I'm
Speaker 2: your creator and host Maria Fernanda Viev. Our story editor
Speaker 2: is Dylan Hoyer. This season was produced by ME with
Speaker 2: additional production from Dylan. Sound designed by Dylan Hoyer with
Speaker 2: additional support from ME. Mixing and mastering by Laurence Stuff.
Speaker 2: Original theme music by Tony Bruno. Our executive producers are
Speaker 2: Anna Stump, Antisell Bante and special thanks to our Lean
Speaker 2: Santana