WEBVTT - Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw, Part 1: Becoming Coore & Crenshaw 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.279 The best way I know how to describe Ben Crenshaw 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.800 is simply say, look at our company name. Tell me 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:17.240 one other major championship winner with an unknown golf course 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:22.440 architect who would form a partnership and call it by 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.800 the other guy's name. First didn't happen. It wouldn't happen, 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:31.000 So he has every right to be up first. I 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:39.120 followed Bill. I'm glad. I gladly followed Bill with another logo, 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:55.400 Nobody's getting This is the fire Pit with Mattinella. The 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.000 sixth episode of the fire Pit is part one of 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:01.120 the people, places, and things that had an influence on 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:04.720 what Bill Core and Ben Crenshaw have become as architects, 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.840 How and when they met, who was involved, and why 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:13.600 it works. We start with Sue Corp, Bill's wife. I say, 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:18.160 Ben Crenshaw. You say, because that is my connection, Ben, 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.880 But I really think of Bill and Ben as brothers. 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:26.399 I swear they came from the same mother, because they 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:31.360 are so similar in temperament, They're so similar in graciousness 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:34.479 they are. They don't pay attention to things together. They 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:36.840 pay attention to things together, and I think they make 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:41.480 each other better. Next, we hear from Julie Crenshaw, Ben's wife. 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:47.880 I say Bill Kore and you say genius. Reminded me 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:52.960 a lot of Ben. Very quiet, very polite, soft spoken. 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:56.320 I can see why they have a lot in common. 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.560 They are kindred spirits. I can tell you that in 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.560 this era of golf course architecture, I believe cor and 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.920 Crenshaw are the most consistent and thoughtful builders of the 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:11.280 fun and fair adventure we seek. As avid amateurs, they 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.919 move very little dirt and yet extract so much soul 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:19.000 from the land that they leave behind. I've been fortunate 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.400 enough to chronicle the development of almost half of their portfolio. 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:28.680 I've heard them preach restraint, celebrate strategy, and I've watched 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.560 them walk raw land in search of the ideal routing. 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.320 Bill is always out front, while Ben tends to fall behind, 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:39.080 stopping on occasion to ask questions and flush out the options. 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.560 As they build their thirtieth course in their thirty fifth 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:48.680 year of being partners. Their body of work includes sand Hills, 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:53.160 Friar's Head, and Colorado Golf Club. Some of my favorites 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:57.840 are Lost Farm, Cabot Cliffs, and bandoned trails. Some of 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.640 their restoration work on iconic venue whose includes Cypress Point, 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:07.360 Seminal and of course Pinehurst Number Two, the Sheep Ranch, 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.560 the sixth Course, Abandoned Dunes, and their third for Mike 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:15.160 Keiser's Oregon Resort opens on June one. Julie and Sue 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.000 will be used throughout this episode, as well as Rod Whitman, 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.399 a longtime associative Core and Crenshaw, who has almost ten 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.480 courses to his credit, one of which is cabint Links 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:29.520 in Nova Scotia. We also hear from Scottie Sayers, Crenshaw's 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:33.120 childhood friend and the one who makes sure this partnership 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:39.560 is also a business. Did you ever think you'd be 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:44.600 getting together on Skype to have a conversation reflecting on 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:48.480 your career in the beginning of what has become Core 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:56.360 and Crenshaw. If he weren't for Julie and my wife Sue, 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:00.840 we wouldn't be here today. I'll tell you that Julie 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:05.000 Crenshaw confirms they're like brothers. They how they think they 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.400 both don't have emails. You know that, Um, you can 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.640 get them to call, you can't get them to text. Um. 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:14.200 But they do it the old school way. Everything about 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:19.599 them is old school. Bill Core was an only child 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.960 raised by a single mom who worked multiple jobs to 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:27.160 support the family and any of young Williams dreams and aspirations. 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:32.240 Sue Corp shares some perspective. I think that he had 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:36.480 the most amazing mama on the planet. She just encouraged 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.720 him to be the best at whatever, whatever he wanted. 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.200 He came home and said he wanted to be an astronaut, 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:45.880 she'd support that, be the best that you could be 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:50.560 whatever he wanted to be. Um, I'm just sorry that 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:54.520 I never met her, because she raised an incredible man. 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.040 As for designing backyard golf holes, if his mom was home, 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.480 he told me routing tended to go around the house. 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:08.400 If she wasn't home, he often went over the house. Well, 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:10.960 if you're right. I grew up at in rural North 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.039 Carolina and my next door neighbor played golf and he 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.119 introduced me to it, and they were he was really 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:20.240 the only close neighbors. So we would play around through 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.080 the higher backyard to his backyard, to the to the mailbox, 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.880 and out across the dirt road where we lived, and 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.320 even in through the corn fields when they were cloud under, 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:32.920 so we'd make up our own toles and things, but 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.279 I would caddy for him and uh, on some very 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.800 special occasion, uh, he would go to pine Nurse. So 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.480 he is the one who introduced me to Pinehurst. And 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.240 then later when I was in high school and then 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:50.040 of course in college, I'd go there far more regular basis. 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.680 But they were they were fun times and they were, 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:57.800 you know, the cornerstone of what I my introduction to 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:02.159 golf and my introduction to what interesting golf architectures. All 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:07.320 of that. Sue Corp shares some perspective. Bill wasn't raised 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:11.080 with a father, and his parents were divorced when Bill 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.880 was quite young, and there were lots of men who 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.760 took over that that position and really cared for Bill 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:21.520 and really nurtured Bill. And his mother was smart enough 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:26.440 and confidence enough to encourage all of that. As for 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:30.800 Ben Crenshaw, he grew up at Austin, Texas, navigating Lions 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.040 Municipal and the old Austin Country Club, which was a 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:39.880 Perry Maxwell designed. The places where I was playing started 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:44.120 me on I kind of thinking about golf courses. One 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:48.279 of my first sort of road trips was brack and 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.839 Ridge Park in San Antonio to playing the Texas State Jr. 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:56.840 It's old tilling Hands course, very tight. I mean there 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:58.719 were a couple of holes there. You had to threaten 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:04.000 the needle, big boundaries. But it started me thinking about 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.159 different golf holes. And then when I started traveling, I said, 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.880 I've been treated to some wonderful example. So I just 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:16.760 always I was always kind of fascinated about golf courses 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.640 and how they were laid out. And then when I 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.280 went to Boston when I was sixteen to play in 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.160 the National Junior at the country Club, it just blew 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.880 my mind. I wanted to know who built the courses, 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:34.920 who was my friend, you know, the organization's history of 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.480 the game, the players. I just from then on, I 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:42.720 just started studying everything I could find. Although Bill Core 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.520 was intrigued by the concept of golf course designed, it 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:51.560 was Pete Due who inspired more digging. I knew I 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.400 like certain courses and certain things, and I tried to 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.360 figure out why, but I really wasn't that much into it. 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.560 And when I saw what Pete was doing, a little 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.920 public course called Okla in High Point, I just said, gee, 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.880 this is different. I wonder how you do this. And 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:12.960 obviously about to get out of the army, that was 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:18.000 single Um, I didn't need any more money. Fortunately working 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.240 for teach you weren't going to make much. But um didn't. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:26.400 Whatever it took to you know, myself alive. And so yeah, 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:30.119 that's how you get to that that. Uhum. I began 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:34.120 to basically just badge or pete. I thought I'd like 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.679 to see how this is done. And in the beginning 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.520 it was with the intention I just like to see 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.680 how you actually create one of these things. And I 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:46.079 was always thinking after that, I'll go back to graduate school. 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:49.920 Well obviously that didn't happen either, but it's uh for 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.040 my whole my whole career has been a very circuitous, 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:59.760 almost in so many ways, unplanned journey. As for meeting 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.720 Nicholas at the seventy one U s Open and Marian 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:08.040 Ben Crenshaw had what you'd call a spontaneous plan. I 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.680 was changing my shoes in the locker room and somehow 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.240 Jack walked in by himself, and I said, oh my god, 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:16.880 here's my chance. I gotta gotta go to meet himself. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:21.280 Followed him upstairs and it was a restroom up there, 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.080 so I said, oh, I got him there. So I 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.920 went the wrestle so I stuck out in my hand 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:32.959 and said Jack, I'm John. He said, well, I'll leave 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:39.520 with him just so. But that was my first meeting 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:43.960 with Jack. I admired the way he played everything else, 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.720 but I knew at that point he was just starting 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.959 to get into golf course architecture. So I I thought, well, 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:57.480 that's that's pretty neat right there. And he ironically, you know, 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.160 he worked with Pete Died at the heart at Harvard Town, 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:06.840 although minimally there. Yeah, and then he sort of knew 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:14.560 that he was he could do both uh jobs as 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:20.319 a obviously world class golfer and and then obviously pursue 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.360 architecture too, and he had a true love and a 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:27.640 passion for it. But Jack was you know, that's a 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:32.640 lot to take on in a career business wise and playing. 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.840 But they seemed to juggle it, like Arnold Palmer did too. 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.160 After chasing down Pete Die a few times in the 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.960 early seventies, Bill was watching the local news which reported 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.920 I was going to be building the Cardinal in Greensboro, 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.520 North Carolina, not far from where Bill lived. They were 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:51.360 talking about that Pete I was gonna be in town. 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.520 They were going to start this golf course. So I'm 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.880 thinking he didn't even call me, you know, tell me 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:01.240 he'd tell anyway to drive out there. And he he's 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.520 with a guy named John Gray who was eats construction 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:09.360 foreman there, an associate, and uh, he just finds finds 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.440 something for this guy to do. You just want to 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.480 get rid of me, you know. And you're right, mad, 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.240 I started with a verry hip waiters and a chainsaw. Well, 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.920 Ben Crenshaw was having success on the course. Core was 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.920 going course to course with Pete and Roy Dye, which 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.000 is how he ended up in Huntsville, Texas. Is Waterwood 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.840 the course that that Pete kind of left you at 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:37.680 and said, you know, you'll be the superintendent here? Is that? Yeah, Matt, 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:43.640 that's a very kind way of putting it. He got 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.200 rid of you. Beach sent me to work with his 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:50.760 brother Roy supposedly to help Gary Grandstaff, who was the 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.360 golf course superintendent and worked for Roy um to help 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:59.520 Gary uh Spanish water with Nation. Well. When Huntsville, Bill 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.840 met Rod Whitman, who was a Canadian going to school 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.680 at sam Houston State. Bill quickly became a mentor and 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.240 a friend. Well, I didn't have any money, so Bill 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:14.800 always bought the pizza, and uh, I mean we played golf. 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:16.480 I just got to hanging out with him on the 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.240 weekends at water Wood, and you know, Bill was out 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:23.880 there seven days a week, and uh, you know, over 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.120 time we just got to play a little golf together 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:30.320 and then and hang out and and I just loved 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.840 being around him, and he would talk about golf course design, 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.880 and you know, I was just trying to play golf 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.599 at that time. I had no aspirations to become an architect, 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.439 but the subject fascinated me, and he was very passionate 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.360 about it. So that's uh. He has some old books 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:49.640 that I could start to read and some notes that 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.800 he had made when he worked for Pete, and uh, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.760 I became fascinated with the subject. And then certainly just 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.520 talking with Bill, it was it was inspired to think 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:05.280 about the old courses and golf of course design in general, 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.480 which I had never, you know, paid much attention to. 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.120 Now in the early eighties, still in Huntsville, Bill gets 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:15.720 a call from Pete Die He needed a guy in 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:20.080 Austin and he needed him. Now. All we were wrout 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.720 doing some work I think on the Ninth Green, and uh, 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.880 he got a call from from Pete Pete wanted somebody 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.160 to go to Austin. And you know, as he said 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.480 later dump trucks, you know, was he watched the dump 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:33.880 trucks dump and tell him where the dump when that 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.640 sort of thing. He took the phone call, came back 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:38.520 out and asked me if I wanted to go to 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.360 work with Pete. And I just the damn nervous I 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.720 could hardly talk. And uh after a little bit, I 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.880 I certainly agreed to it, and he made the arrangements, 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:51.720 had to rent me a car, and I and I 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.559 drove out to Austin that day. It will all happen 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:02.240 very fast. So Rod is now working for Pete Dye. 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.600 Bill had worked for Pete Dye, and Ben was keeping 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.719 an eye on Pete Dye. You know when I was 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:13.240 saying Austin at the Austin Country Club, Pete would come 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.920 to town and then you know, he would have visitors. 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.080 I mean Tom Kite would come out there, and Ben 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:22.720 Cranshaw would come out there, and they'd walk around and 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:24.480 try to hang out with Pete a little bit and 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:29.480 and and just watch him work. And uh so when 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.880 he did come out there, I mean, obviously I got 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:33.600 a chance to meet him because I was part of 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.840 that entourage. And uh, you know, Pete told me says, 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.000 you know Ben's coming out here. He says, just just 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.200 listen to him and do whatever he wants. He said, 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:47.680 So it was sort of an interesting time. I was 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:53.680 told by Rod Whitman, who was Pete Day's foreman, and 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.040 I've gotten to meet Rod, and I'm really interested in 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.360 what he was doing. I saw Pete many times. They 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:01.960 both ment and he said, you know what, you need 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.000 to meet Bill Coorey. You need to you need to 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.240 meet Bill core I really think that you'd like him. 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.000 I would go back and forth to uh Huntsville every 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:13.280 now and then and talk with Bill and I and 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:15.720 I told him that I'd met Bannon. I thought, man, 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.160 this guy is is is just a really nice guy. 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:23.000 He's really cool guy. He's interested in design it and uh, 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.600 you know, I just I just know that talking to 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.160 Bill that I mentioned that, you know, it would be 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.360 nice if he if he met him. The seeds had 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.960 been planted, but before they met, a man named Dave 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.640 Kerry helped get Bill his big break down on the 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.920 Gulf Coast to Texas, four hours south of Huntsville. He said, look, 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.000 we've known each other now for a two years. He said, Uh, 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.320 I know you're the superintendent here by No, really what 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.040 you'd like to do is being the golf course design business. 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.240 He said, this may be the chance, and he took 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.840 me down Rockport Country Club and interesting enough, was in 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.840 the middle of building their first nine holes, and for 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.080 some reason, and I've never known what happened, but there 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.480 were some as they say in Texas, of falling out 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:14.680 between the the owners and the golf course architect. And 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.640 so they just dismissed him on the spot. But here 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.640 they are, they're digging lakes, they're doing it, they're working 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.080 on this nine holes and they've got no one in 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:28.080 charge of their design. I guess Dave carried for water 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:30.400 with you this. He takes me down, they're introducing me, 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:34.800 and so they're on the spot. They say, well, you're 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.080 supposed to know something about this. We need somebody. This 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.040 is the maximum you can spend and if you want 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.280 the job, you want to and figure it out, it's yours. 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.160 I guess I was so naive inside, as they say, 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.560 walked into the deep end of the plume, paddled around. 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.520 Even with his raw talent and ambition for architecture. Bill 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.960 Core couldn't go it alone. He called upon Jerry Clark, 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.360 a k A. Scrooge, who had been helping him with 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:05.639 coursework at Waterwood. And so when Rockport came along us 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.400 and Scroogey wanta you wanna go? You wanna go? Let 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:10.919 me and try and see if we can make some 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.680 of this. Yeah, I think I'll go with you. And 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:16.320 and so we the two of us, go down there 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.800 and and we we start working on this basically just 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.280 to us start with. And then another guy who lived 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.080 there named Mike McKay who ended up working with Vann 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:30.600 and me for years, and it actually became the nucleus 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.960 or the cornerstone that you're the guys that we have 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:39.240 today because you're Jerry Clark and Mike McKay trained like 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:43.359 Jimbo right and and and Dave Accellent and these guys 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.960 who have now gone on to train all these other guys. 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.480 So you can trace it right back to that. But yeah, 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.520 we we finished the nine holes in the Rockport. It 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:55.240 turned out, you know, they thought it was good. We 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.040 actually did a second nine holes there immediately after. So 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.800 it was eighteen. The guys and I were kind of 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:06.160 tiptoeing along, but we were I guess, uh, I guess 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:08.920 you could say we were officially in the golf course design. 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.280 I asked Rod Whitman for his thoughts on Rockport, the 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:17.680 first original Bill Core design. I love Rockport. It was 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:22.200 a great little setting in a small town, and uh, yeah, 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.439 every day you get up you just want to play golf, 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.399 and it was. It was a lot of fun. I 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.040 can see where anybody looking at it, knowing it it 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:35.000 was new, I'd say, man, that's pretty classic. Rockport was 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.520 good enough to get that team some attention, but according 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:43.960 to several potential clients, they were missing something. One most 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:48.240 memorable story, at least to me, happened in Houston, Texas. 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:52.640 Uh with the man who was a very successful real 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:57.280 estate developers, had a nice, beautiful office and I guess what, 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:01.320 at the time was the tallest building in Houston. He 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:05.560 goes Bill. He said, I've seen your golf course in Rockfort. 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:09.960 It's really good. He said, it's really good, he said, 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:13.000 but nobody has ever heard of you. Nobody knows who 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:19.280 you are. This business is about selling real estate. This 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.760 is not so much about golf. You walk in here 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:28.160 tomorrow with late Travenue on your arm or Tom Watson 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:33.480 or you know some somebody like that. He said, I'll 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.040 hire you until then, and he walked over to the 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.040 window of his high rise office. We looked down on 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:43.840 the street. He said, until then, until I can walk 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.280 down there on that street and call out your name 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.600 and people stopped to look around to see where you are, 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:55.760 you don't get hired. So well, I don't do that, 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.440 and I said, I just haven't really felt like I said, 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.880 how did John we got another job? We hopefully we'll 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.480 get another one. I don't know. I just it's just 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.720 not something that I'd really given much thought to. He said, 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:13.160 what if he did, who would be? You just referred 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:16.800 to it man. Ben had just won the Master's nur 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:22.639 and this probably was happening maybe the month after that. 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.919 But I didn't know Ben. But I just I had 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.600 read the articles in the magazines where Ben's talking about 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.840 golf and golf architecture. And I said, well, I guess 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.280 I guess there're gonna be anybody be Ben Crunchhaw. The 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:39.480 guy who looked at me, and he just goes, God, 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:45.080 don't mighty Bill, He said, I'm no Ben romantic and 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:50.800 naive as you are you guys together be his master. 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:59.040 So then along comes Charlie Bellair, another wealthy Texas businessman 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:03.240 who had land on the Gulf Coast. He wanted to 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.640 have Bill core and again a well known player, take 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:10.640 a look, and although he still didn't know him, Bill 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:15.840 floated the idea of Ben Crenshaw again. But Bill's first 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.879 visit to that land was by himself. As for his 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:24.080 first impressions of the potential project, Man, it wasn't gonna happen. 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:26.720 It's just one of the worst sites you'd ever see. 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:31.000 It went underwater, salt water, so, I mean, it wasn't 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:36.800 gonna Bill had seen enough and he left town. Charlie 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:39.600 calls me back and he says, Bill, can you come 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:43.240 down here. Ben Cranshaw is gonna come down here. I 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:45.399 don't want you guys to look at this. He was 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.760 still hopeful. I knew I got down the Gulf coast. 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:52.280 Ben comes over. Ben looked at the sight in a 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:56.640 nano second. You know, Robin Williams would say, no, we're 0:21:56.680 --> 0:22:02.720 not building the golf course, but that man did, at 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.000 least from my side of the equation. He's the one, 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:12.760 uh who who got us together that day. We you know, 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:15.679 we met for the first time. We ended up that 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:19.000 afternoon going over to Rockport. It was really close. And 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:22.399 then I walked the holes. I mean, I'm walking with 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.800 Bend Crunch, the Master Champion, and I'm not saying I 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:28.840 think that this is just I hope you worked the course. 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:33.239 And I looked at that golf course and there was 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:38.960 there was something totally different about what I saw. It 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:43.800 was interesting, it was natural. It looked like it sprang 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:46.880 right out of the ground, and it had a put 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:51.600 It had a particular appeal to me, and I thought, Wow, 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:55.480 this is this guy has a really sense of feel 0:22:56.480 --> 0:23:01.680 of the atmosphere or where he's working. About this time, 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:04.800 Crenshaw had just left i MG and had hired his 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:08.960 childhood friend and business partner, Scotty Says as his manager. 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:14.200 Says recalls seeing Ben when he got back to Austin UM. 0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:16.639 He walked into the library at his house after spending 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:19.520 the day with Bill and Julie was in there, and 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:23.119 I've seen him excited, but this was one of the 0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:28.080 most exciting times UM for him, just because he really 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:30.600 didn't have a partner or didn't have a plan on 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:34.680 how to get into the business. They had met, there 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:38.200 was interest, and in Ben's mind it was a done deal. 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:47.000 It was It was just unbelievable. How this happened is 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.879 when Wade decided to make a go at this, and 0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:55.520 that was the year I married Julie. So I made 0:23:55.640 --> 0:24:01.560 two really good decisions. Remember Julie, when I came back, 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:06.600 and you know, I was god us playing. He was 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:10.920 still going to play tournaments. I said, Julie, I made 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:14.960 a decision. I said, I'm gonna Bill Cournan get a 0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.679 former partnership. And she said, what in the world are 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:19.960 you doing that? You're so you're a player, And I said, 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:23.960 you don't have to trust me on this, Julie. And 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:30.080 I was thinking, Wow, what are you kidding um? And 0:24:30.119 --> 0:24:31.880 I was like, are you sure you want to do this? 0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:36.480 You know, because what he was struggling with his health, 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:40.800 struggling with this game. We just got married. We weren't 0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:43.679 even certain he was ever going to play competitive golf again. 0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:49.639 In Ben Crenshaw missed the cut in thirteen of his 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:54.400 first nineteen tournaments. He was eventually diagnosed with what's called 0:24:54.560 --> 0:25:01.520 Graves disease, an overactive thyroid. He could not break eighty, 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:05.280 could not put, could not Chip could not just play 0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:10.800 terrible golf, blamed it on stressed, lost like thirty pounds 0:25:11.640 --> 0:25:14.080 instead of Sports illustrated, putting him on the cover for 0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:17.439 whenning the Masters, they were like chasing him on the 0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:19.840 golf course because he was shooting eight and missing cuts 0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:27.720 and it was horrible, horrible, poor. It was sad and horrible, 0:25:27.960 --> 0:25:30.040 and I mean he really we had no idea if 0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:32.720 he was gonna ever compete. And so when we got 0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:35.280 married November, they did a blood test on him and 0:25:35.400 --> 0:25:38.840 checked us. They were like, your thorro is huge. Well 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:42.160 it was off the charts. So they gave him radioactive 0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:47.280 iodine to kill it, and um, they said, six weeks later, 0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:50.480 you should feel better. Six weeks to the day, he 0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:54.080 finished tied for six at the US Open at Shinnecock 0:25:55.680 --> 0:25:59.640 and we skipped around that place like he had one 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:04.119 a tournament. I remember Raymond winning and then we were like, 0:26:04.160 --> 0:26:09.200