1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,279 Speaker 1: The best way I know how to describe Ben Crenshaw 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: is simply say, look at our company name. Tell me 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: one other major championship winner with an unknown golf course 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: architect who would form a partnership and call it by 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: the other guy's name. First didn't happen. It wouldn't happen, 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: So he has every right to be up first. I 7 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: followed Bill. I'm glad. I gladly followed Bill with another logo, 8 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: Nobody's getting This is the fire Pit with Mattinella. The 9 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: sixth episode of the fire Pit is part one of 10 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: the people, places, and things that had an influence on 11 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: what Bill Core and Ben Crenshaw have become as architects, 12 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: How and when they met, who was involved, and why 13 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: it works. We start with Sue Corp, Bill's wife. I say, 14 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: Ben Crenshaw. You say, because that is my connection, Ben, 15 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: But I really think of Bill and Ben as brothers. 16 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: I swear they came from the same mother, because they 17 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: are so similar in temperament, They're so similar in graciousness 18 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: they are. They don't pay attention to things together. They 19 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: pay attention to things together, and I think they make 20 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: each other better. Next, we hear from Julie Crenshaw, Ben's wife. 21 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: I say Bill Kore and you say genius. Reminded me 22 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: a lot of Ben. Very quiet, very polite, soft spoken. 23 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: I can see why they have a lot in common. 24 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: They are kindred spirits. I can tell you that in 25 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: this era of golf course architecture, I believe cor and 26 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: Crenshaw are the most consistent and thoughtful builders of the 27 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: fun and fair adventure we seek. As avid amateurs, they 28 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: move very little dirt and yet extract so much soul 29 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: from the land that they leave behind. I've been fortunate 30 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: enough to chronicle the development of almost half of their portfolio. 31 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: I've heard them preach restraint, celebrate strategy, and I've watched 32 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: them walk raw land in search of the ideal routing. 33 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: Bill is always out front, while Ben tends to fall behind, 34 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: stopping on occasion to ask questions and flush out the options. 35 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: As they build their thirtieth course in their thirty fifth 36 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: year of being partners. Their body of work includes sand Hills, 37 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: Friar's Head, and Colorado Golf Club. Some of my favorites 38 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: are Lost Farm, Cabot Cliffs, and bandoned trails. Some of 39 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: their restoration work on iconic venue whose includes Cypress Point, 40 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: Seminal and of course Pinehurst Number Two, the Sheep Ranch, 41 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: the sixth Course, Abandoned Dunes, and their third for Mike 42 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: Keiser's Oregon Resort opens on June one. Julie and Sue 43 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: will be used throughout this episode, as well as Rod Whitman, 44 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,399 Speaker 1: a longtime associative Core and Crenshaw, who has almost ten 45 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: courses to his credit, one of which is cabint Links 46 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: in Nova Scotia. We also hear from Scottie Sayers, Crenshaw's 47 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: childhood friend and the one who makes sure this partnership 48 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: is also a business. Did you ever think you'd be 49 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: getting together on Skype to have a conversation reflecting on 50 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: your career in the beginning of what has become Core 51 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: and Crenshaw. If he weren't for Julie and my wife Sue, 52 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: we wouldn't be here today. I'll tell you that Julie 53 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: Crenshaw confirms they're like brothers. They how they think they 54 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: both don't have emails. You know that, Um, you can 55 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: get them to call, you can't get them to text. Um. 56 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: But they do it the old school way. Everything about 57 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: them is old school. Bill Core was an only child 58 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: raised by a single mom who worked multiple jobs to 59 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: support the family and any of young Williams dreams and aspirations. 60 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: Sue Corp shares some perspective. I think that he had 61 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: the most amazing mama on the planet. She just encouraged 62 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: him to be the best at whatever, whatever he wanted. 63 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: He came home and said he wanted to be an astronaut, 64 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: she'd support that, be the best that you could be 65 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: whatever he wanted to be. Um, I'm just sorry that 66 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: I never met her, because she raised an incredible man. 67 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: As for designing backyard golf holes, if his mom was home, 68 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: he told me routing tended to go around the house. 69 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: If she wasn't home, he often went over the house. Well, 70 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: if you're right. I grew up at in rural North 71 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: Carolina and my next door neighbor played golf and he 72 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,119 Speaker 1: introduced me to it, and they were he was really 73 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: the only close neighbors. So we would play around through 74 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: the higher backyard to his backyard, to the to the mailbox, 75 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: and out across the dirt road where we lived, and 76 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: even in through the corn fields when they were cloud under, 77 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: so we'd make up our own toles and things, but 78 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: I would caddy for him and uh, on some very 79 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: special occasion, uh, he would go to pine Nurse. So 80 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: he is the one who introduced me to Pinehurst. And 81 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: then later when I was in high school and then 82 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: of course in college, I'd go there far more regular basis. 83 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: But they were they were fun times and they were, 84 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: you know, the cornerstone of what I my introduction to 85 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: golf and my introduction to what interesting golf architectures. All 86 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: of that. Sue Corp shares some perspective. Bill wasn't raised 87 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: with a father, and his parents were divorced when Bill 88 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: was quite young, and there were lots of men who 89 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: took over that that position and really cared for Bill 90 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: and really nurtured Bill. And his mother was smart enough 91 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: and confidence enough to encourage all of that. As for 92 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: Ben Crenshaw, he grew up at Austin, Texas, navigating Lions 93 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: Municipal and the old Austin Country Club, which was a 94 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: Perry Maxwell designed. The places where I was playing started 95 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: me on I kind of thinking about golf courses. One 96 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: of my first sort of road trips was brack and 97 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: Ridge Park in San Antonio to playing the Texas State Jr. 98 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: It's old tilling Hands course, very tight. I mean there 99 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: were a couple of holes there. You had to threaten 100 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: the needle, big boundaries. But it started me thinking about 101 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: different golf holes. And then when I started traveling, I said, 102 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: I've been treated to some wonderful example. So I just 103 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: always I was always kind of fascinated about golf courses 104 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: and how they were laid out. And then when I 105 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: went to Boston when I was sixteen to play in 106 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: the National Junior at the country Club, it just blew 107 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: my mind. I wanted to know who built the courses, 108 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: who was my friend, you know, the organization's history of 109 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: the game, the players. I just from then on, I 110 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: just started studying everything I could find. Although Bill Core 111 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: was intrigued by the concept of golf course designed, it 112 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: was Pete Due who inspired more digging. I knew I 113 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: like certain courses and certain things, and I tried to 114 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: figure out why, but I really wasn't that much into it. 115 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: And when I saw what Pete was doing, a little 116 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: public course called Okla in High Point, I just said, gee, 117 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: this is different. I wonder how you do this. And 118 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: obviously about to get out of the army, that was 119 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: single Um, I didn't need any more money. Fortunately working 120 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: for teach you weren't going to make much. But um didn't. 121 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: Whatever it took to you know, myself alive. And so yeah, 122 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,119 Speaker 1: that's how you get to that that. Uhum. I began 123 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: to basically just badge or pete. I thought I'd like 124 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: to see how this is done. And in the beginning 125 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: it was with the intention I just like to see 126 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: how you actually create one of these things. And I 127 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: was always thinking after that, I'll go back to graduate school. 128 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: Well obviously that didn't happen either, but it's uh for 129 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: my whole my whole career has been a very circuitous, 130 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: almost in so many ways, unplanned journey. As for meeting 131 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: Nicholas at the seventy one U s Open and Marian 132 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: Ben Crenshaw had what you'd call a spontaneous plan. I 133 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: was changing my shoes in the locker room and somehow 134 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: Jack walked in by himself, and I said, oh my god, 135 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: here's my chance. I gotta gotta go to meet himself. 136 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: Followed him upstairs and it was a restroom up there, 137 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: so I said, oh, I got him there. So I 138 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: went the wrestle so I stuck out in my hand 139 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 1: and said Jack, I'm John. He said, well, I'll leave 140 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: with him just so. But that was my first meeting 141 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: with Jack. I admired the way he played everything else, 142 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: but I knew at that point he was just starting 143 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: to get into golf course architecture. So I I thought, well, 144 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: that's that's pretty neat right there. And he ironically, you know, 145 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: he worked with Pete Died at the heart at Harvard Town, 146 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: although minimally there. Yeah, and then he sort of knew 147 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: that he was he could do both uh jobs as 148 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: a obviously world class golfer and and then obviously pursue 149 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: architecture too, and he had a true love and a 150 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: passion for it. But Jack was you know, that's a 151 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: lot to take on in a career business wise and playing. 152 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: But they seemed to juggle it, like Arnold Palmer did too. 153 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: After chasing down Pete Die a few times in the 154 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: early seventies, Bill was watching the local news which reported 155 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: I was going to be building the Cardinal in Greensboro, 156 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: North Carolina, not far from where Bill lived. They were 157 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: talking about that Pete I was gonna be in town. 158 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: They were going to start this golf course. So I'm 159 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: thinking he didn't even call me, you know, tell me 160 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: he'd tell anyway to drive out there. And he he's 161 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: with a guy named John Gray who was eats construction 162 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: foreman there, an associate, and uh, he just finds finds 163 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: something for this guy to do. You just want to 164 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: get rid of me, you know. And you're right, mad, 165 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: I started with a verry hip waiters and a chainsaw. Well, 166 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: Ben Crenshaw was having success on the course. Core was 167 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: going course to course with Pete and Roy Dye, which 168 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: is how he ended up in Huntsville, Texas. Is Waterwood 169 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: the course that that Pete kind of left you at 170 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: and said, you know, you'll be the superintendent here? Is that? Yeah, Matt, 171 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: that's a very kind way of putting it. He got 172 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: rid of you. Beach sent me to work with his 173 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: brother Roy supposedly to help Gary Grandstaff, who was the 174 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: golf course superintendent and worked for Roy um to help 175 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: Gary uh Spanish water with Nation. Well. When Huntsville, Bill 176 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: met Rod Whitman, who was a Canadian going to school 177 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: at sam Houston State. Bill quickly became a mentor and 178 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: a friend. Well, I didn't have any money, so Bill 179 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: always bought the pizza, and uh, I mean we played golf. 180 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: I just got to hanging out with him on the 181 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: weekends at water Wood, and you know, Bill was out 182 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: there seven days a week, and uh, you know, over 183 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: time we just got to play a little golf together 184 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: and then and hang out and and I just loved 185 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: being around him, and he would talk about golf course design, 186 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: and you know, I was just trying to play golf 187 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,599 Speaker 1: at that time. I had no aspirations to become an architect, 188 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: but the subject fascinated me, and he was very passionate 189 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: about it. So that's uh. He has some old books 190 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: that I could start to read and some notes that 191 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: he had made when he worked for Pete, and uh, 192 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: I became fascinated with the subject. And then certainly just 193 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: talking with Bill, it was it was inspired to think 194 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: about the old courses and golf of course design in general, 195 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: which I had never, you know, paid much attention to. 196 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: Now in the early eighties, still in Huntsville, Bill gets 197 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: a call from Pete Die He needed a guy in 198 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: Austin and he needed him. Now. All we were wrout 199 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: doing some work I think on the Ninth Green, and uh, 200 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: he got a call from from Pete Pete wanted somebody 201 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: to go to Austin. And you know, as he said 202 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: later dump trucks, you know, was he watched the dump 203 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: trucks dump and tell him where the dump when that 204 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: sort of thing. He took the phone call, came back 205 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: out and asked me if I wanted to go to 206 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: work with Pete. And I just the damn nervous I 207 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: could hardly talk. And uh after a little bit, I 208 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: I certainly agreed to it, and he made the arrangements, 209 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: had to rent me a car, and I and I 210 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: drove out to Austin that day. It will all happen 211 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: very fast. So Rod is now working for Pete Dye. 212 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: Bill had worked for Pete Dye, and Ben was keeping 213 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,719 Speaker 1: an eye on Pete Dye. You know when I was 214 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: saying Austin at the Austin Country Club, Pete would come 215 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: to town and then you know, he would have visitors. 216 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: I mean Tom Kite would come out there, and Ben 217 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: Cranshaw would come out there, and they'd walk around and 218 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: try to hang out with Pete a little bit and 219 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: and and just watch him work. And uh so when 220 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: he did come out there, I mean, obviously I got 221 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: a chance to meet him because I was part of 222 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: that entourage. And uh, you know, Pete told me says, 223 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: you know Ben's coming out here. He says, just just 224 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: listen to him and do whatever he wants. He said, 225 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: So it was sort of an interesting time. I was 226 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: told by Rod Whitman, who was Pete Day's foreman, and 227 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: I've gotten to meet Rod, and I'm really interested in 228 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: what he was doing. I saw Pete many times. They 229 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: both ment and he said, you know what, you need 230 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: to meet Bill Coorey. You need to you need to 231 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: meet Bill core I really think that you'd like him. 232 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: I would go back and forth to uh Huntsville every 233 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: now and then and talk with Bill and I and 234 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: I told him that I'd met Bannon. I thought, man, 235 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: this guy is is is just a really nice guy. 236 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: He's really cool guy. He's interested in design it and uh, 237 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, I just I just know that talking to 238 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: Bill that I mentioned that, you know, it would be 239 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: nice if he if he met him. The seeds had 240 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: been planted, but before they met, a man named Dave 241 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: Kerry helped get Bill his big break down on the 242 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: Gulf Coast to Texas, four hours south of Huntsville. He said, look, 243 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: we've known each other now for a two years. He said, Uh, 244 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: I know you're the superintendent here by No, really what 245 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: you'd like to do is being the golf course design business. 246 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: He said, this may be the chance, and he took 247 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: me down Rockport Country Club and interesting enough, was in 248 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: the middle of building their first nine holes, and for 249 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: some reason, and I've never known what happened, but there 250 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: were some as they say in Texas, of falling out 251 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: between the the owners and the golf course architect. And 252 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: so they just dismissed him on the spot. But here 253 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: they are, they're digging lakes, they're doing it, they're working 254 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: on this nine holes and they've got no one in 255 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: charge of their design. I guess Dave carried for water 256 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: with you this. He takes me down, they're introducing me, 257 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: and so they're on the spot. They say, well, you're 258 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: supposed to know something about this. We need somebody. This 259 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: is the maximum you can spend and if you want 260 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: the job, you want to and figure it out, it's yours. 261 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: I guess I was so naive inside, as they say, 262 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: walked into the deep end of the plume, paddled around. 263 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: Even with his raw talent and ambition for architecture. Bill 264 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: Core couldn't go it alone. He called upon Jerry Clark, 265 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: a k A. Scrooge, who had been helping him with 266 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: coursework at Waterwood. And so when Rockport came along us 267 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: and Scroogey wanta you wanna go? You wanna go? Let 268 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: me and try and see if we can make some 269 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, I think I'll go with you. And 270 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: and so we the two of us, go down there 271 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: and and we we start working on this basically just 272 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: to us start with. And then another guy who lived 273 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: there named Mike McKay who ended up working with Vann 274 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: and me for years, and it actually became the nucleus 275 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: or the cornerstone that you're the guys that we have 276 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: today because you're Jerry Clark and Mike McKay trained like 277 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: Jimbo right and and and Dave Accellent and these guys 278 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: who have now gone on to train all these other guys. 279 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: So you can trace it right back to that. But yeah, 280 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: we we finished the nine holes in the Rockport. It 281 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: turned out, you know, they thought it was good. We 282 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: actually did a second nine holes there immediately after. So 283 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: it was eighteen. The guys and I were kind of 284 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: tiptoeing along, but we were I guess, uh, I guess 285 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: you could say we were officially in the golf course design. 286 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: I asked Rod Whitman for his thoughts on Rockport, the 287 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: first original Bill Core design. I love Rockport. It was 288 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: a great little setting in a small town, and uh, yeah, 289 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 1: every day you get up you just want to play golf, 290 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: and it was. It was a lot of fun. I 291 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: can see where anybody looking at it, knowing it it 292 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: was new, I'd say, man, that's pretty classic. Rockport was 293 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: good enough to get that team some attention, but according 294 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: to several potential clients, they were missing something. One most 295 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: memorable story, at least to me, happened in Houston, Texas. 296 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: Uh with the man who was a very successful real 297 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: estate developers, had a nice, beautiful office and I guess what, 298 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: at the time was the tallest building in Houston. He 299 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: goes Bill. He said, I've seen your golf course in Rockfort. 300 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: It's really good. He said, it's really good, he said, 301 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: but nobody has ever heard of you. Nobody knows who 302 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: you are. This business is about selling real estate. This 303 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: is not so much about golf. You walk in here 304 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: tomorrow with late Travenue on your arm or Tom Watson 305 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: or you know some somebody like that. He said, I'll 306 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: hire you until then, and he walked over to the 307 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: window of his high rise office. We looked down on 308 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: the street. He said, until then, until I can walk 309 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: down there on that street and call out your name 310 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: and people stopped to look around to see where you are, 311 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: you don't get hired. So well, I don't do that, 312 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: and I said, I just haven't really felt like I said, 313 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: how did John we got another job? We hopefully we'll 314 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: get another one. I don't know. I just it's just 315 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: not something that I'd really given much thought to. He said, 316 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: what if he did, who would be? You just referred 317 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: to it man. Ben had just won the Master's nur 318 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: and this probably was happening maybe the month after that. 319 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: But I didn't know Ben. But I just I had 320 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: read the articles in the magazines where Ben's talking about 321 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: golf and golf architecture. And I said, well, I guess 322 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: I guess there're gonna be anybody be Ben Crunchhaw. The 323 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: guy who looked at me, and he just goes, God, 324 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: don't mighty Bill, He said, I'm no Ben romantic and 325 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: naive as you are you guys together be his master. 326 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: So then along comes Charlie Bellair, another wealthy Texas businessman 327 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: who had land on the Gulf Coast. He wanted to 328 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: have Bill core and again a well known player, take 329 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: a look, and although he still didn't know him, Bill 330 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: floated the idea of Ben Crenshaw again. But Bill's first 331 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: visit to that land was by himself. As for his 332 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: first impressions of the potential project, Man, it wasn't gonna happen. 333 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: It's just one of the worst sites you'd ever see. 334 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: It went underwater, salt water, so, I mean, it wasn't 335 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: gonna Bill had seen enough and he left town. Charlie 336 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: calls me back and he says, Bill, can you come 337 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: down here. Ben Cranshaw is gonna come down here. I 338 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: don't want you guys to look at this. He was 339 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: still hopeful. I knew I got down the Gulf coast. 340 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: Ben comes over. Ben looked at the sight in a 341 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: nano second. You know, Robin Williams would say, no, we're 342 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: not building the golf course, but that man did, at 343 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: least from my side of the equation. He's the one, 344 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: uh who who got us together that day. We you know, 345 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: we met for the first time. We ended up that 346 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: afternoon going over to Rockport. It was really close. And 347 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: then I walked the holes. I mean, I'm walking with 348 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: Bend Crunch, the Master Champion, and I'm not saying I 349 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: think that this is just I hope you worked the course. 350 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,239 Speaker 1: And I looked at that golf course and there was 351 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: there was something totally different about what I saw. It 352 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: was interesting, it was natural. It looked like it sprang 353 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: right out of the ground, and it had a put 354 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: It had a particular appeal to me, and I thought, Wow, 355 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: this is this guy has a really sense of feel 356 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: of the atmosphere or where he's working. About this time, 357 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: Crenshaw had just left i MG and had hired his 358 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: childhood friend and business partner, Scotty Says as his manager. 359 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: Says recalls seeing Ben when he got back to Austin UM. 360 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: He walked into the library at his house after spending 361 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: the day with Bill and Julie was in there, and 362 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: I've seen him excited, but this was one of the 363 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: most exciting times UM for him, just because he really 364 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: didn't have a partner or didn't have a plan on 365 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: how to get into the business. They had met, there 366 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: was interest, and in Ben's mind it was a done deal. 367 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: It was It was just unbelievable. How this happened is 368 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: when Wade decided to make a go at this, and 369 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: that was the year I married Julie. So I made 370 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: two really good decisions. Remember Julie, when I came back, 371 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: and you know, I was god us playing. He was 372 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: still going to play tournaments. I said, Julie, I made 373 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: a decision. I said, I'm gonna Bill Cournan get a 374 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 1: former partnership. And she said, what in the world are 375 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: you doing that? You're so you're a player, And I said, 376 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: you don't have to trust me on this, Julie. And 377 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: I was thinking, Wow, what are you kidding um? And 378 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 1: I was like, are you sure you want to do this? 379 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: You know, because what he was struggling with his health, 380 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: struggling with this game. We just got married. We weren't 381 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: even certain he was ever going to play competitive golf again. 382 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: In Ben Crenshaw missed the cut in thirteen of his 383 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: first nineteen tournaments. He was eventually diagnosed with what's called 384 00:24:54,560 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: Graves disease, an overactive thyroid. He could not break eighty, 385 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: could not put, could not Chip could not just play 386 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: terrible golf, blamed it on stressed, lost like thirty pounds 387 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: instead of Sports illustrated, putting him on the cover for 388 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: whenning the Masters, they were like chasing him on the 389 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: golf course because he was shooting eight and missing cuts 390 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: and it was horrible, horrible, poor. It was sad and horrible, 391 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: and I mean he really we had no idea if 392 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: he was gonna ever compete. And so when we got 393 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: married November, they did a blood test on him and 394 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: checked us. They were like, your thorro is huge. Well 395 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 1: it was off the charts. So they gave him radioactive 396 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: iodine to kill it, and um, they said, six weeks later, 397 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: you should feel better. Six weeks to the day, he 398 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: finished tied for six at the US Open at Shinnecock 399 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: and we skipped around that place like he had one 400 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: a tournament. I remember Raymond winning and then we were like, 401 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: well we won, you're back, you are back. Four weeks 402 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: later he won the Mule Open and then he was off. 403 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: So he took you know, took a gamble on getting 404 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: married to me, took a gamble on Bill, and you know, 405 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: didn't know he was going to get better. But it 406 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: all worked out and he did get better, thank goodness. 407 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: So who end what gets credit for this chance encounter? 408 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: P die of course, But they couldn't have done it 409 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,719 Speaker 1: without Rockport Country Club. I mean, there's no question that 410 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: the routing there very traditional and not much distance between 411 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: the going from the grain to the tea easily walkable course, 412 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 1: very interesting, good bunker work, and and it was it 413 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: was early Bill Kore, but you could sure see what 414 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: was gonna be in his mind in the future as 415 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: he designed courses, and sure that's where it been. Really 416 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: really was hooked on Bill Core. And they probably wouldn't 417 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: have met without Rod Whitman. They just seem like they 418 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: would become pretty good friends. You know, they're they're both 419 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: at the same sort of age and and and mental stability, 420 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: if I can call it that. You know, they just uh, 421 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 1: they just there. I thought that they'd get along very 422 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: well and and uh, you know, I could talk architecture 423 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: on a level that that made some sense and and 424 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: just had a feeling. And apparently this doesn't happen without 425 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: some perseverance by Ben Crenshaw. And I'll confess I was 426 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: the one who pursued Bill in the elite Bill was 427 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: not interested in partnering up with any one, and I 428 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: think I don't know much. Maybe three went by and 429 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: I it got to when I may have tried to 430 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: talk him into it, and he wasn't really interested. You know, 431 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: I I kind of you know, I can understand that. 432 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: And it finally it came around and he said, you know, 433 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: maybe maybe maybe we could give this a go. This 434 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: beginning to sound like a fairy tale. You know. We 435 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: met in eighty four, um, and then over a period 436 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: of over a year, I mean significantly over a year, 437 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: we would just occasionally get together or we'd have phone 438 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: conversations about golf architecture. Ben would call sometimes have you 439 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: ever seen this or that? You know? Of course, and 440 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: and think, but there was never really this great game 441 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: plan to make this happen, and it's been has been 442 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: said he he um he. He likes to take the blame, 443 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: I guess for us being together. I think he pursued it. 444 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: It was often something, uh to say that I don't 445 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: it was just such a natural evolution. But at some 446 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: point in time, man, and I can sincerely say, there 447 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: wasn't this great dinner, there wasn't this great whatever. There 448 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: wasn't too many beers out someplace and then said let's 449 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: do it. It just evolved and we said let's try 450 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: some of this together. F A t In retrospect, I 451 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: looked back on it, and Fate had effectle hand in 452 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: all this. I've had some nice things happened to me 453 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: in my career and this this is one of them. 454 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: In Part two, which will go live in a week, 455 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: we're taking this partnership all the way to send Hills 456 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: and the Brown Esca, the sand based trampoline that vaulted 457 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: these guys into another atmosphere of architecture. Are you looking 458 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: for good value on great golf apparel as a listener 459 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: to this podcast, my friends John Ashworth and Jeff Cunningham 460 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: at Link Soul in Oceanside, California are offering you a 461 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: discount on all future orders of what I Wear all day, 462 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: every day, on and off the course. Whenever you go 463 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: to link soul dot com, just use promo code matty 464 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: G M A T T Y G. Thank you for 465 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: listening to the fire Pit. It's produced by Alex Upeggy. 466 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,959 Speaker 1: It's edited by Rex Lint. The theme song is by 467 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: Joe Horowitz. 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