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Speaker 3: Hey Daniel, what do you think will happen today we

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Speaker 3: discover alien life?

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Speaker 1: Ooh, I'm imagining like a huge worldwide celebration.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and you think it'll be good news?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we'll learn something very deep and important

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Speaker 1: about the nature of life and the universe and everything.

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Speaker 3: But what if it's not good news? Are you considered

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Speaker 3: darker possibilities about alien life?

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Speaker 5: Hmm?

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Speaker 1: Like if they're not friendly to humans, they show up

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Speaker 1: in space and zappas well.

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Speaker 3: They could be friendly to humans, you know, they might

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Speaker 3: find us.

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Speaker 1: The I guess that depends on which kind of humans

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Speaker 1: they find delicious.

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Speaker 3: We probably all taste the same, you know, like chicken.

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Speaker 1: Maybe chickens taste like humans.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure there are people in this world who I

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Speaker 3: know the answer to that question. What if we find

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Speaker 3: out about aliens because of some giant space battle they're

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Speaker 3: having with themselves.

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Speaker 1: Oh, well, that sounds pretty exciting. In that case, I'd

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Speaker 1: like to reserve a front row seat.

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Speaker 3: Oh, really you do that, I'll be running away in

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Speaker 3: the other.

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Speaker 1: Direction, and I'll be popping the popcorn.

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Speaker 3: I am Hoorham and cartoonists and the creator of PhD comments.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor at

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Speaker 1: UC Irvine, and I don't wish any aliens to die,

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Speaker 1: but I do want to see a giant alien space battle.

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Speaker 3: Wait, so, how would they have a battle but without

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Speaker 3: any even dying? Is it just like a virtual battle?

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Speaker 3: Or they're like playing laser tag? What are you talking

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Speaker 3: about here? Or maybe it's like a word old battle.

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Speaker 3: Are they having a word old battle?

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Speaker 1: Maybe they've evolved to a higher plane of combat exactly. No,

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Speaker 1: it's tension within me. As much as I would like

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Speaker 1: to see alien space battles, I also don't want any

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Speaker 1: aliens out there to die. But you know some of

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Speaker 1: our favorite stories are about alien space battles. Isn't that

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Speaker 1: what Star Wars is all about?

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Speaker 3: Wait? Star Wars is about aliens.

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Speaker 1: That's what you told me. It's in another galaxy, far

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Speaker 1: far away, right, they're all aliens.

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Speaker 3: Maybe we're the aliens in the Star Wars universe.

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Speaker 1: Well, we're not capable of putting on giant space battles.

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Speaker 3: Yet also, people don't die in Star Wars. They just

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Speaker 3: come back as ghosts, Jedi ghosts.

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Speaker 1: More powerful than you could even imagine.

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Speaker 3: Or are you the Emperor? They just keep bringing you

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Speaker 3: back for all the movies.

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Speaker 1: Don't the Stormtroopers die though, or do they also come

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Speaker 1: back as Jedi ghosts?

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Speaker 3: I guess it's not clear. You know, they kids zapped

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Speaker 3: with their little armor and they just fall down.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they're just taking a nap. There you go. I'd

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Speaker 1: like a giant alien space battle where the losers just

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Speaker 1: take a nap.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to see that movie Star Naps. Welcome

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Speaker 3: to our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a

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Speaker 3: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we try to zap your brain with all

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Speaker 1: sorts of incredible information about the universe. We know that

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Speaker 1: everything out there is amazing and mysterious and confusing, but

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Speaker 1: we hope to help you understand what little of it

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Speaker 1: humanity has managed to decode. And we hope that one

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Speaker 1: day aliens come and give us a little bit more

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Speaker 1: information about what's going on out there in the universe.

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Speaker 1: If indeed they do exist.

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Speaker 3: That's right, because it is a pretty incredible universe, and

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Speaker 3: we do battle every day here with the mysteries of it,

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Speaker 3: and we go to war with our ignorance about how

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Speaker 3: it works.

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Speaker 1: In what's going on in the universe. We're trying to

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Speaker 1: drop a knowledge bomb on everybody's ignorance.

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Speaker 3: That's right. You can think of us as a laser

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Speaker 3: gun of amazing facts zapping people's brains.

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Speaker 1: There's that warm, fuzzy feeling you get when you understand

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Speaker 1: something about the universe. But there's all so lots of

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Speaker 1: things that we still don't understand about the universe, things

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Speaker 1: that give you that gnawing feeling of desperate curiosity, that

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Speaker 1: desire to just know what's going on out there. There

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Speaker 1: are some of the deepest questions in human existence which

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Speaker 1: have answers, which are facts about the universe which maybe

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Speaker 1: one day people will know. How frustrating is it to

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Speaker 1: live in the era of darkness to not know the

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Speaker 1: answers to basic questions like are we alone in the universe?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? What bigger question can there be about the existence

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Speaker 3: of humans than the question of whether we are the

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Speaker 3: only living thing or intelligent thing living and existing in

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Speaker 3: this universe?

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Speaker 1: And we wonder about it. We speculate about it, but

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Speaker 1: we have a very very deep lack of information about it.

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Speaker 1: The universe is vast, and from our tiny little rock

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Speaker 1: we have done a pretty good job of exploring a

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Speaker 1: tiny little corner of it. We have telescopes that tell

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Speaker 1: us about nearby star systems and con peer further and

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Speaker 1: deeper into the universe. We've only begun recently to identify

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Speaker 1: other planets and other places in the universe where life

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Speaker 1: might spring independently from Earth.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we know that here in our Solar systems there

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Speaker 3: aren't a lot of signs of life, and so we

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Speaker 3: know that if there is alien life out there, it

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Speaker 3: has to be kind of far away, right how it closes.

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Speaker 3: The nearest planet to us light years away.

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Speaker 1: The nearest planet to me is about zero meters away.

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Speaker 1: It's right here under my feet. There are other places

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Speaker 1: in the Solar System. People think there might be life,

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Speaker 1: life under the frozen crust of Europa. So there are

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Speaker 1: still exciting places in our backyard. But you're right, other

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Speaker 1: Solar systems are frustratingly far away, several light years. The

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Speaker 1: closest identified exoplanet is around Proxima Centauri, which happens to

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Speaker 1: be the closest star just under four light years away,

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Speaker 1: And what that tells us is that there are planets

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Speaker 1: everywhere in the galaxy and in the universe. We now

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Speaker 1: think that almost every star out there has planets around it,

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Speaker 1: and a huge fraction of them have even Earth like planets,

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Speaker 1: maybe around this size, maybe around this kind of surface temperature,

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Speaker 1: maybe even with liquid water on their surface. And so

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Speaker 1: with so many places that life could be out there

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Speaker 1: in the universe, sometimes we wonder, why haven't we found

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Speaker 1: it already.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a very big question, one that would kind

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Speaker 3: of determine our place in the universe. Because if the

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Speaker 3: answer is that there isn't life out there, that means

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Speaker 3: that humans are pretty special right in the entire universe.

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Speaker 3: Imagine what it'd be like to know that we're the

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Speaker 3: only intelligence piecies in such a big place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it would make you feel special. It also make

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Speaker 1: you feel kind of lonely being the only intelligent life

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Speaker 1: in the entire universe. It's kind of a lot of

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Speaker 1: responsibility also, like we're the only ones out there doing

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Speaker 1: any thinking. We're the only ones trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: how this huge puzzle about the nature of the universe,

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Speaker 1: trying to crack the cosmic mystery of how all these

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Speaker 1: quantum particles weave themselves together into this experience. I prefer

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Speaker 1: to imagine that there's lots of other civilizations out there,

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Speaker 1: and maybe they've even solved some of these questions and

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Speaker 1: have the answers waiting for us. But we don't know.

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Speaker 1: And we've been looking out in the cosmos and listening

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Speaker 1: for signals from aliens, hoping that they are as excited

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Speaker 1: as we are to meet their neighbors, and sending us

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Speaker 1: messages which we might capture in radio waves or other

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic signals. Of course, so far we've heard nothing conclusive.

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Speaker 3: Wait, so you want aliens to exist just to take

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Speaker 3: some of the pressure off of your God? Is that

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Speaker 3: kind of what you're talking about?

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Speaker 1: You know, I very strongly believe in funding basic research

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Speaker 1: and expanding science, and that goes beyond the limits of

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Speaker 1: our species. I think science should be funded here on

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Speaker 1: Earth and everywhere in the universe, and I hope that

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Speaker 1: budget aliens out there are, you know, giving a healthy

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Speaker 1: dose of funding to those science aliens out there struggling

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Speaker 1: to understand the nature of the universe, burned by the

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Speaker 1: same curiosity that we have or maybe they don't. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they just don't care about the nature of the universe

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Speaker 1: and they're not even doing science.

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Speaker 3: I feel like you're like little kid in class who's

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Speaker 3: looking is test or her test and going like, I

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Speaker 3: have no idea what's going on. You're sort of like

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Speaker 3: looking around to see if anyone else knows the answers.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I definitely want to cheat off of alien physicists.

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Speaker 1: I would love to get like an alien physics textbook

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Speaker 1: and then win like a whole string of Nobel Prizes

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Speaker 1: here on Earth just by copying their ideas. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: will completely admit that is my fantasy.

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Speaker 3: Really, So wait, you would get the secrets from the

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Speaker 3: alien I'm just trying to pick you this scenario.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's work through it.

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Speaker 3: You would get the secrets from the aliens, but you

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Speaker 3: wouldn't tell anyone that aliens exist, and you would use

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Speaker 3: that knowledge for your own personal game.

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Speaker 1: That sounds fantastic.

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Speaker 3: Yes, remind me not to tell you any secrets Thenny.

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Speaker 1: If you are holding a Nobel Prize winning secret, please

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Speaker 1: do share it with me. I would love to hear it.

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Speaker 3: You would be the last person I would shared with, obviously.

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Speaker 1: I hope you would share it with all of humanity.

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Speaker 1: Like if somebody gave me secrets from aliens, I would

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Speaker 1: share it with all of humanity.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, But the aliens themselves would be the biggest secrets.

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Speaker 3: You said, it's the biggest question in human existence.

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Speaker 1: No, you're right. And of course, if aliens do come

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Speaker 1: or communicate with us, probably physicists wouldn't be at the

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Speaker 1: front of the line of people who get to chat

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Speaker 1: with them, right, Probably we'd send like engineers or doctors,

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Speaker 1: or politicians or linguists or mathematicians or philosophers before the

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Speaker 1: physicists even get their shot.

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Speaker 3: I think I would send the physicists first for sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because you know what, if they're hungry, we got to

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Speaker 3: test the waters here.

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Speaker 1: So you don't want me to learn the secrets from

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Speaker 1: the aliens, but you do want me to be there first.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's two sides to that coin.

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Speaker 3: Well, I want you to learn the secrets, but I

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Speaker 3: want you to share the secrets with everybody.

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Speaker 1: I will share the secrets with you and the Nobel Committee.

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Speaker 3: And if their secret is what their stomachs look like,

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Speaker 3: well you know you can't share it, but at least

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Speaker 3: we would.

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Speaker 1: Know, just like going inside of black hole, you learn

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Speaker 1: some deep secrets about the universe, but only you can

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Speaker 1: know them.

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Speaker 3: But it's interesting you talk about some of the ways

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Speaker 3: that people usually think that we're gonna meet aliens or

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Speaker 3: know about aliens, which is getting signals from them. I

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Speaker 3: mean that's sort of like one way we can learn

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Speaker 3: about them. I guess in other way is to go

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Speaker 3: to another planet and see them too, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is a really common thing in science.

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Speaker 1: When you have no idea how hard a problem is,

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Speaker 1: you start with the easiest things, like maybe the universe

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Speaker 1: is failed with aliens and they're all sending messages and

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Speaker 1: we just haven't been listening. And as soon as we

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Speaker 1: turn on our electronic ears and use our radio satellites

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Speaker 1: to tune in, maybe we could instantly tap into the

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Speaker 1: galactic internet and hear all those conversations. There's some scenario

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Speaker 1: in which it would have been easy, and as soon

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Speaker 1: as we started listening, we discovered it. So it makes

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Speaker 1: sense to first do the easy thing and see if

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Speaker 1: alien messages are filling space. Of course, we've been listening

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Speaker 1: and we haven't heard anything, and so people are starting

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Speaker 1: to try to be creative and think about like well,

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Speaker 1: what are other ways we could hear from aliens or

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Speaker 1: what are other ways we could detect their existence? As

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Speaker 1: you say, maybe we could go to those planets and

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Speaker 1: discover them. Right. That's limited, of course, by our ability

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Speaker 1: to travel from star to star. These stars are so

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Speaker 1: far away and the speed of light is such a

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Speaker 1: stubborn limitation that until we develop a warp drives or

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Speaker 1: practical wormholes, it's not realistic to think that we could

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Speaker 1: explore a significant fraction of the galaxy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like, what would it take, I guess to send

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Speaker 3: a probe to Alpha Centauri? Right? It's four light years away.

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Speaker 3: That's like bazillions of miles away. Right now, it seems

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Speaker 3: kind of impossible because I think the furthest we've sent

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Speaker 3: a probe right now is just barely outside this Solar system, right,

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Speaker 3: and it took like thirty years.

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, the most distant object sent by humanity. Some

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Speaker 1: of these old Voyager and Pioneer probes are not very

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Speaker 1: far outside the Solar system, so it would take a

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Speaker 1: long time for anything to get anywhere. But you know,

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Speaker 1: if you were thinking about it on long time scales,

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Speaker 1: it's not going to take like millions of years we're

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Speaker 1: talking like thousands or tens of thousands of years. And

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Speaker 1: if you send a few probes to other planets, and

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Speaker 1: if those probes are very clever, they're like AI driven

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Speaker 1: else replicating probes, so they can like land on some

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Speaker 1: distant moon, they can find materials on those moons to

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Speaker 1: make more of themselves, and then they can send those

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Speaker 1: probes out and those probes make more of themselves, and

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Speaker 1: those make more of themselves. It's not impossible to imagine

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Speaker 1: rapidly exploring the entire galaxy. Where by rapid we mean

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Speaker 1: on the timescale of like fifty two one hundred thousand years.

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Speaker 1: So that's a really interesting argument because it suggests that

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Speaker 1: with technology not super far in our future, some other

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Speaker 1: civilization could have explored the whole galaxy with self replicating probes.

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Speaker 1: And then you have to ask, like, well, why haven't

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Speaker 1: we been visited by such a probe yet? Are there

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Speaker 1: no other advanced civilizations out there who have this idea?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we addressed this question in this whole scenario in

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Speaker 3: our book. Frequently asked questions about the universe. That was

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Speaker 3: one of the chapters, right like why haven't we seen aliens?

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Speaker 3: And maybe we can do that with these self replicating robots,

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Speaker 3: which would litter the universe in no time exactly.

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Speaker 1: And one basic assumptions a lot of these scenarios make

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Speaker 1: is that aliens want us to find them, or that

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Speaker 1: they are trying to talk to us, or they are

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Speaker 1: curious about the rest of the universe as well, so

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Speaker 1: they're sending messages out or they're sending probes out there

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Speaker 1: explorational the same way that we are. But of course

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Speaker 1: we don't know what alien psychology is like and what

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Speaker 1: those aliens want, or even what it means to want

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Speaker 1: something as an alien. So these days a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are imagining other ways to detect aliens when they're

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Speaker 1: not trying to be detected. Are there things that aliens

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Speaker 1: can do in prints they leave on the universe that

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Speaker 1: aren't intended for us to discover them, but might allow

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Speaker 1: us to spot them anyway.

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Speaker 3: So today on the program, we'll be asking the question,

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Speaker 3: could we detect alien nuclear explosions? I imagine you're saying

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Speaker 3: these are like accidental nuclear explosions or on purpose nuclear explosions.

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Speaker 1: Either one. Right, we don't discriminate. We just like to

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Speaker 1: know the aliens are there and whatever they do in

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Speaker 1: their normal civilization extrapolation. We'd like to see if we

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Speaker 1: could detect it. Maybe they're just doing testing like we're doing,

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Speaker 1: or maybe they have some globe spanning nuclear annihilation. The

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Speaker 1: question is could we see it? Right? If aliens are

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Speaker 1: blowing up nuclear bombs, is it possible for us to

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Speaker 1: spot that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Gus, as you mentioned, you know, once scenario is

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Speaker 3: that they're sending out signals on purpose, either to talk

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Speaker 3: to us directly or just like that's their TV, maybe

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Speaker 3: their broadcast TV. But I think we talked in an

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Speaker 3: earlier episode about how like for us to detect the

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Speaker 3: signal from an alien, it would have to be like

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Speaker 3: a pretty focus beam, right, Like like they said, we're

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Speaker 3: just listening to their TV broadcast is pretty.

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Speaker 1: Low, that's right. If you're just sending signals in every direction,

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Speaker 1: then you pay a really big price because those signals

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Speaker 1: get weaker with distance, and they get weaker with distance squared.

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Speaker 1: So when signals go twice as far, they're four times

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Speaker 1: this week. When they go ten times as far, there

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Speaker 1: are one hundred times as week. That makes it really

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Speaker 1: really hard to detect non focus signals. And if we

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Speaker 1: wanted to detect signals that we could generate using technology

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Speaker 1: that we have, we would not be able to spot

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Speaker 1: signals of the kinds we can generate using our own

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Speaker 1: technology from planets that are more than like one light

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Speaker 1: year away. If, however, they're like beaming us messages, they're

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Speaker 1: shooting laser beams in our direction, then the math works differently,

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Speaker 1: and we could get messages from further away, But then

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Speaker 1: they'd have to know we were here and try to

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Speaker 1: send us messages on purpose, which seems less likely.

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Speaker 3: I think here today we're exploring a different scenario, which

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Speaker 3: is like, what if they're doing something without trying by

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Speaker 3: accident maybe or through some sort of event, and then

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Speaker 3: that's what we see, and that's how we know that

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Speaker 3: there are aliens exactly.

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Speaker 1: And people have been thinking about this and wondering like, well,

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Speaker 1: what's the most visible thing that you can do, not

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Speaker 1: just broadcasting Rick and Morty episodes into the cosmos. Some

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Speaker 1: times our civilization does things which generate very bright flashes

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Speaker 1: of radiation, and hey, what's brighter than a nuclear explosion?

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Speaker 3: Well, what if there's a kid in that alien planet

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Speaker 3: pointing a laser porner directly at.

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Speaker 1: Ow my eye? Ow alien burnt my eye.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. That's why you should be careful when

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Speaker 3: you look up at this guy. So then the scenario

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Speaker 3: here is that somehow, this alien civilization out there is

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Speaker 3: exploding nuclear their own nuclear bombs, either by accident or

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Speaker 3: some testing or something. Maybe they have their own nuclear war.

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Speaker 3: And so the question is like, could we see those

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Speaker 3: nuclear explosions?

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Speaker 1: M hmm, exactly all right.

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Speaker 3: Well, as usual, we were wondering how many people out

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Speaker 3: there had the interesting curiosity to ask this question about

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Speaker 3: alien life and how we could detect them. So, as usual,

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Speaker 3: Daniel went out there. Did you go to the internet

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Speaker 3: or are you? Are you going on campus? Now?

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Speaker 1: These are still internet based questions. I felt a little

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Speaker 1: bit weird walking around campus asking people about aliens and

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Speaker 1: nuclear bombs.

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Speaker 3: That's nerous you Before I thought it.

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Speaker 1: Might get reported to the UCI police.

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Speaker 3: Eh yeah, Tenure, am I going to fire you? Anyways?

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Speaker 3: You really have to do worse thing.

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Speaker 1: So thanks very much to our internet volunteers who responded

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Speaker 1: with enthusiasm to this question. If you would like to

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Speaker 1: play this part in future episodes, please write to me

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Speaker 1: two questions at Danielanjorge dot com. We can do it

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Speaker 1: all over email. It's fast. It's easy, it's fun.

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Speaker 3: So think about it for a second. Do you think

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Speaker 3: we could detect alien nuclear explosions? Here's what people had

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Speaker 3: to say.

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Speaker 6: Yes, So it depends whether the detonation happened on Earth

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Speaker 6: or a planet from Solar System or somewhere far away.

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Speaker 6: In any of these cases, I think we might be

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Speaker 6: able to detect. Considering that via decaying of the matter

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Speaker 6: and the amount of radiation that is being exposed out

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Speaker 6: of that location on Earth, we might be able to

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Speaker 6: analyze whether it's man made or alien, and if it

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Speaker 6: is having on some other planet. Considering the amount of

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Speaker 6: information that we have already gained with the telescopes in place,

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Speaker 6: we will be able to do it.

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Speaker 1: That's what I believe.

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Speaker 7: By No, we have satellites now that can detect detonations

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Speaker 7: on Earth. I don't think it would work at interstellar distances,

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Speaker 7: especially considering that there's so many sources of radiation in space,

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Speaker 7: you know, from stars to gamma ray burst everything in between.

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Speaker 1: So no, I don't think we could.

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Speaker 8: Well, I guess so. I guess it would depend on

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Speaker 8: how good the detector was and how far away it

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Speaker 8: was away from you. If there was set off over

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Speaker 8: your head, you might be able to detect it pretty soon.

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Speaker 5: I feel like we probably could detect alien nuclear detonations

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Speaker 5: if there was like enough radiation for to reach like

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Speaker 5: far enough, But other than that, I don't really think

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Speaker 5: we could.

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Speaker 3: All right, some people said yes, some people said no,

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Speaker 3: some people said maybe yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think they really put their finger on the issue.

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Speaker 3: Which is that nobody knows, and not even us.

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Speaker 1: It's all about brightness and distance. You know, what's the

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Speaker 1: faintest radiation we could pick up and how close would

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Speaker 1: these bombs have to be for us to spot them.

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Speaker 3: I feel like you're missing one important factor, which is

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Speaker 3: how big are these bombs?

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Speaker 1: That's a huge unknown. You're right, and we'll get into

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Speaker 1: it in a minute. And the only standard we have

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Speaker 1: is like how big are our bombs? So we can

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Speaker 1: imagine whether we could detect nuclear explosions of the size

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Speaker 1: that we could make if aliens also did them.

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Speaker 3: M all right, we'll dig into it, but I guess

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Speaker 3: first let's start with the basics, Like Daniel, what happens

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Speaker 3: during the nuclear explosion besides the explosion part of it?

442
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, to understand whether we could see a nuclear explosion

443
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 1: on another planet, you have to think about what the

444
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 1: signals are, like what signals does a nuclear explosion generate?

445
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: And we had a whole episode about how nuclear bombs

446
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,159
Speaker 1: work where we went to a lot of detail, but

447
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 1: not enough detail for you to build that nuclear bomb hopefully.

448
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: But human nuclear weapons at least are either fission weapons

449
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,199
Speaker 1: or fusion weapons triggered by fission. And remember that the

450
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 1: basic process here fission involved breaking up of heavy nucleus

451
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: like plutonium or uranium, which then shoots off a bunch

452
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 1: of neutrons and rams into other nuclei, which breaks them

453
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: apart and sets off a chain reaction where you very

454
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: rapidly are releasing energy. And the fusion bomb is similar

455
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: except it uses a fission bomb to compress a bunch

456
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 1: of fusion fuel so that it fuses. And in both scenarios,

457
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 1: the key thing is releasing a huge amount of energy

458
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,640
Speaker 1: very very quickly. But not just energy, right, You're releasing

459
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: energy but also a lot of radiation.

460
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe step us through like what's actually being released,

461
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 3: Like when you fuse things together they click together to

462
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 3: nuclear click together, and then what actually gets released like

463
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 3: light or you know, particles.

464
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: Or Yeah, so fusion produces high energy photons it also

465
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: produces neutrons and electrons and neutrinos, right, So all these

466
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,040
Speaker 1: kind of things are produced.

467
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 3: And much is produced, but they're like they're produced, but

468
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 3: then they're flying really fast.

469
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 1: Yes, they're produced, and they're carrying a lot of energy.

470
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: So what you actually see from the bomb from like

471
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: a certain distance depends on how that energy is absorbed

472
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: or not absorbed. So, for example, a lot of the

473
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: energy gets dumped into the matter immediately surrounding the bomb, right,

474
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: and so it's absorbed very very rapidly by the stuff

475
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: around the bomb, which expands that matter and creates a shockwave.

476
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 3: I mean like the bomb casing or like whatever if

477
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 3: it's on the ground, that that's what it's going to

478
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 3: push out.

479
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean whatever material is around the bomb, like

480
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: the air or the water or the ground. And you

481
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 1: get very different scenarios if you have an in air

482
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 1: explosion or underground explosion or just above the water. But

483
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: the material that surrounds the bomb is inundated with a

484
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: huge amount of energy, a lot of it from gamma rays,

485
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: and a lot of that gets rapidly absorbed and that

486
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: material gets heated up to like tens of millions of

487
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: degrees and then you get this shockwave. So in the end,

488
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: on and it depends on exactly what you've surrounded the

489
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: bomb with. About half of the energy of a nuclear

490
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: bomb goes these shockwaves, these expanding waves of matter basically

491
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 1: sound waves through matter that carry away a lot of this.

492
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 3: Energy, doesn't It depend on what's around the bomb, Like

493
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 3: if you explode it in water, all of it is

494
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 3: going to come into the water, But if you put

495
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 3: it in air, you know, there's maybe a chance for

496
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 3: that energy to go out further.

497
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: Even in air, a lot of that energy is absorbed

498
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: by the air and you get shock waves. So yes,

499
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: it definitely does depend on the kind of material surrounds it,

500
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: Like if you blow it up underground, it's absorbed differently

501
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: than if you blow it up in the air. But

502
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: you know, since we're just dealing with like approximate numbers here,

503
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: roughly on average, over all those circumstances, about half of

504
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 1: the energy gets dumped into shockwaves, and then like another

505
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: forty percent of the energy comes out in what we

506
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 1: call thermal radiation, basically photons, to which the atmosphere is

507
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: transparent visible light, infrared light, UV light, things that are

508
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: not immediate absorbed by the surrounding material, conduct fly out

509
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: through that material because that material is transparent to this

510
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: kind of radiation.

511
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 3: Why is it transparent? Is it because it just doesn't

512
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,199
Speaker 3: absorb because of quantum effects or is it just that

513
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 3: it's so like air is so thin that it just

514
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 3: doesn't hit enough air molecules.

515
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, air is transparent to visible light, right, we know

516
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: that because we can see the sun through the air.

517
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 1: Why is the air transparent to visible light, You're right,

518
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: is quantum effects. You have certain gases under certain conditions,

519
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: and they either like to absorb photons of various frequencies

520
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: or they don't. These air molecules can't just absorb a

521
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: photon of an arbitrary frequency. They have to have like

522
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: a quantum state that their electron can jump up into,

523
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: or like a new rotation that they can do. So

524
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 1: atoms can only absorb certain frequencies of light, and the

525
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: other frequencies pass right through. So air is mostly transparent

526
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: to visible light and also infra red light. It's less

527
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: transparent in the UV, which is one reason why we

528
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: have like UV space telescopes above the atmosphere. But you know,

529
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 1: a lot of energy is dumped out, and so some

530
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: of these very high energy UV light does survive passing

531
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: through the atmosphere if you're near a nuclear bomb, so

532
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: you have like fifty percent of it roughly in the shockwave,

533
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: like another forty percent in thermal radiation these photons that

534
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: don't get absorbed, and then another ten percent in other

535
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: particles like neutrons or very high energy photons we call

536
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: gamma rays or electrons.

537
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 3: Is it sort of like lightning and thunder, like you

538
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 3: will see the flash of a nuclear bomb before you

539
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 3: actually get hit by the shockwave.

540
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really cool. You actually see two flashes of

541
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: a nuclear bomb. You see the first flash because the

542
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: visible light reaches you before the shockwave. But at some

543
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 1: point the shockwave passes the fireball because the shockwave is

544
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: making the material more dense, which acts to obscure the fireball.

545
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: So the shockwave itself is opaque to the kind of

546
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 1: light being generated by the nuclear bomb. So then for

547
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: a moment you can't see the fireball, but then it

548
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: dissipates and you can see it again. So it's like

549
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: you see a fireball and then you see the shockwave,

550
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: and then you see the fireball. So it's sort of

551
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: like lightning and then thunder and then a second flash

552
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: of lightning.

553
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 3: Whoa, I mean, assuming you survived the first event to

554
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 3: get to see the other two.

555
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is a very characteristic signature of nuclear bombs.

556
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: This double peak of gamma radiation over several milliseconds.

557
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 3: Well, it's definitely an event and nuclear explosion. And so

558
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 3: the question is if aliens exploded nuclear bombs in their planets,

559
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 3: could we see them from here. Let's dig into that

560
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 3: question and what we should be looking for if we're

561
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 3: looking for those kinds of signals. First, let's take a

562
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 3: quick break.

563
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,200
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620
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621
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623
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631
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Speaker 3: All right, we are spending today imagining aliens blowing themselves up.

632
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: We're not hoping they blow themselves up, but if they do,

633
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:37,239
Speaker 1: we hope to see it.

634
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: We're not hoping they blow themselves up, but if they do,

635
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 3: it would be nice. Is that what you say? Is

636
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 3: that's what we're saying.

637
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I prefer aliens living in

638
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: obscurity forever or aliens killing themselves but then we find

639
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: out about them. They would also be kind of sad

640
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: to discover aliens only to discover they had all killed themselves.

641
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 3: That they were the last ones. Yeah, that would be

642
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 3: pretty tragic.

643
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be a bummer.

644
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 3: Well, we talked about what a nuclear explosion is and

645
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 3: what happens to it. So you said about half of

646
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 3: the energy is really just pushing the stuff around it,

647
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 3: So I imagine that won't get very far. Maybe forty percent

648
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 3: of it goes into just light basically invisible light are light,

649
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 3: you'd be light. And about ten percent of it goes

650
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 3: into shooting out basically radiation, right, like charged particles.

651
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, not just charged particles, but neutrons, gamma rays, and

652
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: also electrons.

653
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 3: Well, gamma rays are light right.

654
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: Gamma rays are very high energy photons. Yeah, even more

655
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: high energy than X rays or UV. These are all

656
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: ionizing radiation. They all have the capacity to knock electrons

657
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: off of materials. And because they're ionizing and electrons themselves

658
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: have charge, they can also generate an electromagnetic pulse. This

659
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: is a common feature in a lot of movies nuclear

660
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: weapons knocking out electronics because of a very high energy

661
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: pulse of electromagnetic radiation.

662
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 3: Oh interesting, it's not just that it's like a giant magnet.

663
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 3: It's like it's actually shooting out little magnets.

664
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And so all those gamma rays and all

665
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: those electrons can damage a lot of electronics. So if

666
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: you have electronics near a nuclear weapons blast, then you

667
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: will feel it. They could get knocked offline.

668
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 3: They don't shoot protons, explosions or neutrinos.

669
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: They do generate a lot of neutrinos, yes, absolutely, Fusion

670
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: and fission both generate neutrinos, but not so many protons.

671
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: Mostly neutrons and neutrinos and electrons.

672
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 3: What about laser rays and sound effects like in Star Wars.

673
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: They don't go pewpewpew. As far as I've seen It's

674
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: not in the literature, but.

675
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,239
Speaker 3: The sounds of thousands of the souls being snuffed out

676
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: at the same time.

677
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: Oh, that's sad. I don't know if they create a

678
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: great disturbance in the force. We don't have detectors that

679
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: can measure the force yet, so I'm not.

680
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 3: Sure about that, not yet at least, although I have

681
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 3: a good acronym for them. They should be named Jedi.

682
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: Right, And how does that work?

683
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 3: Just electron detection Institution.

684
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: Sounds good? Are you setting that up with some funding?

685
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: Are you going to endow the Jedi Institute?

686
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 3: Maybe I have already, I'm just not telling you.

687
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: No. That's extra frustrating. But you know, there are a

688
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: lot of scientists here on Earth that have developed very

689
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: sensitive technology for studying nuclear weapons, both because we want

690
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: to understand what happens when they blow up, because we

691
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: have done tests and we want to understand whether our

692
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons are working and are still working and are

693
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: surviving the test of time as they sit in our stockpiles,

694
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: but also because we wanted to detect if other countries

695
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: are blowing up they're nuclear bombs. So there's been a

696
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: live investment in detection of nuclear weapons activity.

697
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 3: I mean like here on Earth. Like if you wanted

698
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 3: to detect whether a nuclear bomb exploded here on Earth,

699
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 3: not in an alien planet. We have techniques here on

700
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 3: Earth to do that because I guess if someone explodes

701
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 3: a nuclear bomb on the other side of the world,

702
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 3: in the middle of the ocean, you may not necessarily

703
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 3: know it happened, right, And if you're a big a

704
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 3: country in a cold war or not, you might want

705
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 3: to know if your enemies are exploding bombs or testing them, that's.

706
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: Right, and you might not want the other country to

707
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: know that you're doing it. So, like secret testing of

708
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons was a big industry, and it's sort of

709
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: an arms race of hiding nuclear bomb detonations and nuclear

710
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: weapons detections. I grew up in Los Almos, which was

711
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: certainly a nerve center for this kind of stuff. My

712
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: mom actually worked on a nuclear non proliferation technology when

713
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: she was at Los Almos, trying to detect if people

714
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 1: are blowing up nuclear bombs and all this kind of stuff.

715
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: So we have a lot of ways to try to

716
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 1: figure out if someone has blown up a nuclear bomb

717
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: here on Earth.

718
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds like you would want to know and

719
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 3: it's kind of interesting that we test nuclear bombs, right, Like,

720
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 3: first of all, I guess you have to test them, right,

721
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 3: how do you know they work? But it's amazing to

722
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 3: me that we have tested nuclear bombs here in the

723
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 3: US right in the desert back in the fifties and sixties,

724
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 3: that that was all they did.

725
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have done above ground tests here in the US.

726
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: You know, Ala Molgrdo was the first site in New Mexico,

727
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: and they tested them on a bunch of islands, which

728
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: was terrible, totally obliterated them. And then there was an

729
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: Atmospheric Test Ban treaty, so you couldn't test nuclear weapons

730
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: in the atmosphere anymore, which is good, and they move

731
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: the testing underground. So in the United States, for example,

732
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: there's the Nevada Underground Test Site where they blow these

733
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: weapons up underground, but there hasn't been any recent testing.

734
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: There's a Comprehensive Test Ban treaty now and so instead

735
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: people now do simulations. They try to understand what would

736
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: happen in the event of a nuclear explosion, or try

737
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 1: to model what's happening to the nuclear weapons we have now,

738
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: are they going to survive? It's the whole big industry

739
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: called stockpile stewardship to try to make sure that our

740
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons would still work if we fired them.

741
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 3: Interesting, So it's a treaty. So like with Russia and

742
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 3: other countries, we have a handshake agreement that you can't test. Basically,

743
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 3: you can't test nuclear weapons anymore.

744
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban treaty signed in

745
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six. And you know, these treatings are always

746
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: complicated because some nations don't ratify them. They're signed by

747
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: presidents and then there you know, local parliaments don't agree

748
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: to them. But yeah, it's been a long time since

749
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 1: there was sort of a public test of a nuclear

750
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: weapon out in the open.

751
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 3: All right. So if someone did test the weapon or

752
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 3: use one here on Earth, how can we detect them?

753
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: So we have a few ways to try to spot this.

754
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: Number one is seismic. If you do test underground, then

755
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 1: it's going to shake the earth and the earth will

756
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: ring like a bell. Shock waves will pass all the

757
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: way around the Earth, and you can detect them in

758
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: other places the same way. We can put detectors in

759
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: California that can spot earthquakes in Japan or in other

760
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: parts of the world. You can detect large seismic events

761
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: all over the world.

762
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 3: Right because I guess the shockwaves of these earthquakes or

763
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 3: nuclear explosions, they kind of go through the rock of

764
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 3: the earth, right, even though it's like lava and molten

765
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 3: it will still kind of propagate sound waves lava sound

766
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 3: waves mm hmm.

767
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: Imagine the Earth is just like a ball of metal

768
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: and you ring it with a hammer, then those sound

769
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: chock waves are going to bounce all around inside it.

770
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: And this is s actually really cool for studying the

771
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: interior of the Earth. You ring the earth and how

772
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: those shockws waves moved through the earth tells you about

773
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: what's inside of it. And like the boundary layers, that's

774
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: actually given us a lot of clues about what's inside

775
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: the earth, is watching the impact of earthquakes sending shock

776
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: waves through the earth. It can be hard, however, to

777
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: tell the difference between an earthquake and a smaller nuclear

778
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: weapons explosion. And they try to do a lot these

779
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: days to hide their nuclear weapons explosions by having like dampers,

780
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: you know, materials which will absorb a lot of this

781
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,479
Speaker 1: energy instead of propagating it into the earth and one

782
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: thing that they've done to try to distinguish between earthquakes

783
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: and nuclear bombs is to listen to it, to take

784
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: the data and translate it into an audiophile And it

785
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: turns out that human brains are pretty good at distinguishing

786
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: the sound of an earthquake versus the sound of a

787
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: nuclear bomb going off.

788
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 3: Okay, so sound waves through the earth is one way

789
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 3: we can detect them here on Earth. What are some

790
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 3: of the other ways?

791
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 1: Other ways are through the air and through the water.

792
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: So if you, for example, blowing up underwater, then you

793
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: create hydroacoustics. It's just like shockwaves through the earth, but

794
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: instead now your make stalkwaves through the water. And water

795
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: is very good at transmitting sound. Right, The speed of

796
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 1: sound through water is faster than it is through air,

797
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: and so sound travels pretty far all the way across

798
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: the globe, which is one reason why they think that

799
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: like whales can talk to each other from different parts

800
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: of the planet. You know, they think whales in Japan

801
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: might be able to hear the songs of whales off

802
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: of Alaska. This kind of stuff, and so in the

803
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: same way, if you blow up a nuclear bomb anywhere,

804
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: neither its not even just in the water. Then the

805
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: seismic waves will propagate through the ocean. And we have

806
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: a lot of listening stations underwater to try to listen

807
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: for all sorts of activity, but including nuclear explosions.

808
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 3: Is that allowed? Can you test nuclear weapons in the water?

809
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 1: Definitely not allowed, but has been done in the past, right, right,

810
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: How else you can also look more directly for the radioactivity. Right,

811
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: If you do blow up a nuclear bomb, then there's

812
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 1: a lot of radiation emitted and radioactive elements. So one

813
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: thing we do is we try to sample by airplane.

814
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: You know, you have airplanes flying all around the world

815
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: and they're sampling for unusual radioactive isotopes, some of which

816
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: are indicative of nuclear explosions. Even if you like test

817
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: it underground, a little bit of these radioactive isotopes will

818
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: eventually leak. It's not always easy to tell where the

819
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: nuclear bomb explosion happened using these techniques, because it depends

820
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: on how it's carried by the wind and the weather

821
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: and how recently it happened. But you can sort of

822
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: tell that one maybe did happen if you pick up

823
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: a signal of these particular fingerprints of a nuclear bomb

824
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: through their radioactive isotopes.

825
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,959
Speaker 3: So that's happening right now. There are aeroplanes out there

826
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 3: up there basically sweeping the Earth like.

827
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: A room book. Exactly. I don't know the details because

828
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: they're not public because like the US doesn't want Russia,

829
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: for example, to know exactly how it's monitoring it, because

830
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: then Russia will know how best to evade it. So

831
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,959
Speaker 1: it's a whole game of secrecy. But absolutely I'm sure

832
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: that the Russians and the Americans are both monitoring the

833
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: atmosphere in high altitude planes to try to detect whether

834
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: the other side is cheating on the test ban treaty.

835
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 3: We're also basically looking for these explosions, right, Like if

836
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 3: you can have satellites maybe with camera strain at the

837
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 3: Earth looking wait for these flashes of light.

838
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that's one of the most powerful ways we

839
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 1: can see these and one of the ways that might

840
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: apply to alien detonations, which is just look with satellites, right,

841
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 1: we have pictures basically of the entire surface of the Earth,

842
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 1: and we can look for high energy sources of gamma

843
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: rays and X rays, which are unusual. You don't expect

844
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: to produce these things in lots of different ways. And

845
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: so if you see one of these signals flashes of

846
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: gamma rays, especially the double peak signature, then you have

847
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 1: a very strong smoking gun signature of a nuclear detonation.

848
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 3: But what if you detonated underground, like deep underground, with

849
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 3: the X rays and gamma rays still make it through

850
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 3: all those layers of rock.

851
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: It depends a lot on the shielding, right, and sometimes

852
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: they try to shield it with heavier metals or they

853
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: go deep deep underground. X rays can penetrate a lot

854
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: of material. Gamma rays tend to be more ionizing, so

855
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: they do end up getting absorbed, but it depends a

856
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: lot on the depth.

857
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 3: All right, Well, that's how you can tell if someone

858
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 3: exploded something here on Earth. But what about the question

859
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 3: of aliens exploding things in their planets? Could we detect

860
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 3: alien explosions or an alien nuclear war?

861
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: So if aliens have the same kind of technology that

862
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: we have, meaning they're blowing up bombs similar to the

863
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: ones we have, then we can look for the same

864
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: signatures from their planets that we would look for on Earth. Obviously,

865
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: we can't look for seismic activity or hydroacoustic activity. We

866
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: can't sample their atmosphere directly. The best way to do

867
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: it would be to look for these gamma ray flashes.

868
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: And of course we already have telescopes that are scanning

869
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: the sky looking for gamma rays because lots of non

870
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: alien sources of gamma rays are very interesting to us,

871
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: and there's even a huge fun physics mystery about gamma

872
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: ray flashes. These things are called gamma ray bursts that

873
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: come from all over the sky. We don't really understand them.

874
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: They last for like sometimes a few seconds, sometimes like

875
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. We think they might be due to the

876
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: collapse of supermassive stars, but they generate very bright flashes

877
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: of gamma rays that are sort of similar to what

878
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: you might expect from a nuclear detonation.

879
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 3: I think you're sort of painting this scenario where we're

880
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 3: basically looking at the sky right with giant antennas that

881
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 3: can detect gamma rays, and if we somehow are pointing

882
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 3: to a particular planet or star and we see a

883
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 3: big flash or a signal, then that could be the

884
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 3: sign that the amiens blew themselves up.

885
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: It could be the sign. As one of the members

886
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: of the listener panel pointed out, it might be hard

887
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: to distinguish. Right, On one hand, it's cool that super

888
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: massive stars collapse and give off gamma ray bursts. On

889
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: the other hand, it's a bit of a bomber because

890
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 1: it makes it harder to distinguish between alien nuclear bomb

891
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: gamma ray bursts and just natural sources of gamma ray bursts.

892
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 3: But I guess if it was a super massive star collapsing,

893
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 3: wouldn't we also see other signs that go along with

894
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 3: it that wouldn't go along with a nuclear explosion.

895
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: It could be, And one thing we're doing is to

896
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: try to study these gamma rays burst in more detail

897
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 1: and see whether they come along with other signs like

898
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: flashes of neutrinos or other things we can see in

899
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 1: the optical to try to figure these things out. We

900
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: don't always have a lot of warning, right, We don't

901
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: know when it's going to happen. We just see, like,

902
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 1: oh wow, there was a big flash of gamma rays

903
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: from this spot in the sky. You don't always have

904
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: time to like train other telescopes on that spot to

905
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: get sort of multi channel data, and they do look

906
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: kind of similar. In fact, when we first discovered gamma

907
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: ray bursts, scientists thought that what they were seeing were

908
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 1: gamma rays from earth bound detonations of nuclear weapons. They

909
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: thought they had just picked up Russian explosions.

910
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 5: Mmmm.

911
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,280
Speaker 3: Is that what explained the signal too.

912
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that would have explained the signal. Now, gamma

913
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: ray bursts come from really really incredibly powerful events. These

914
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: things release enormous amounts of energy, so we can see

915
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: gamma ray bursts from all across the universe. We've seen

916
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: them from really really far away, like millions and millions,

917
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: almost a billion light years away, because they are so powerful.

918
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: Some of these things released like ten to the forty

919
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: four jewels of energy just in the gamma rays, and

920
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: so they're very bright, very powerful. We can see these

921
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: things from very very far away. Our nuclear bombs are

922
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: not nearly as powerful as these other natural sources of

923
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: gamma rays, so they would be relatively dim in comparison.

924
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 3: You mean if there was an alien looking at us

925
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 3: for these gamma ray.

926
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: Bursts, Yeah, exactly. If aliens were watching our nuclear explosions

927
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: and they had technology similar to ours, they would not

928
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: be able to see our explosions from very very far

929
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: away because our explosions are not that bright compared to

930
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: gamma ray bursts.

931
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 3: Well, it sort of depends on how many nukes we

932
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 3: detonate at the same time.

933
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 1: It does. But if you imagine, like a doomsday scenario,

934
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: you take all of our nuclear weapons, you set them

935
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: all off at the same time, you can calculate, like

936
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: how much energy in gamma ray bursts would be emitted.

937
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 1: It's only like ten to the nineteen Jewels, Like obviously cataclysmic,

938
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: terrible scenario, enough energy to devastate civilization on Earth. But

939
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: compared to gamma ray bursts, which are ten to the

940
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 1: forty four Jewels, we're talking about ten to the twenty

941
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: five times less powerful than a gamma ray burst, So

942
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: they're relatively dim compared to these other astrophysical sources.

943
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 3: It's twenty five orders of magnitude weaker. But I guess

944
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 3: you're saying, like, if we do see a gamma ray

945
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 3: burst and we we're not sure if it's an alien

946
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 3: or a star collapsing, I mean that would mean that

947
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 3: this alien civilization blew up twenty five orders of magnitude

948
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 3: many more bombs than we did. Were a bomb that

949
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 3: was twenty five orders of magnitude bigger than.

950
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 1: Ours, Yeah, it depends on how far away they are.

951
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: If there are far as far away as some of

952
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: these really distant gamma ray bursts, then you're right. They

953
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: have like much much bigger nuclear arsenals than we have,

954
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: like ten to twenty five times as powerful.

955
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 3: But they had or they.

956
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly past tense. But if you're imagining an alien

957
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: civilization with the power of our nuclear weapons and they

958
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: had some sort of cata cosmic event where they blew

959
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: them all up at once, then you can ask how

960
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: far away would they be for us to detect it.

961
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: Our gamma ray sensors are pretty sensitive, but remember that

962
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: things get much dimmer as you get further away, So

963
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 1: the sources have to be very bright to be visible.

964
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: For an alien nuclear war at human levels to look

965
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 1: about as bright as a typical gamma ray burst that

966
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: we see, it could only be around eight to ten

967
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: astronomical units away because it wouldn't be nearly as bright

968
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,280
Speaker 1: as its source as gamma ray bursts that are typically

969
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: much further so eight to ten au that's like the

970
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: distance to Pluto. Beyond that, we might still be able

971
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,240
Speaker 1: to pick it up, but it would start getting dimmer

972
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: very fast because remember the next star over is much

973
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: further away than Pluto, So it's possible to see it

974
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: in another star system, but not a guarantee, and our

975
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 1: abilities fade very quickly as you consider even further star systems.

976
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 3: So if like there are aliens in Pluto and they

977
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 3: had a nuclear war and they all their nuclear weapons,

978
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 3: then we would see it through the gamma ray radiation.

979
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 3: But if it happened like in another source system, it'd

980
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 3: be way too dim, or would it, or maybe just

981
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 3: need better instruments. I mean, you're not saying it's impossible.

982
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 3: Are you saying it's impossible or that it's really hard.

983
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's at the

984
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,919
Speaker 1: edge of our ability currently, Like we can barely pick

985
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: up super bright, very distant gamma ray bursts, or we

986
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 1: could pick up less bright, closer gamma ray bursts. Right,

987
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: there's sort of a line there between distance and brightness.

988
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: But we could also improve our technology and make our

989
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: gamma ray detectors more sensitive. Then we could see dimmer

990
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: things that were further away, including gamma ray bursts or

991
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: alien technology. It's definitely not impossible, but.

992
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 3: I think you said that gamma ray are only one

993
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 3: of the things that come out of a nuclear explosion.

994
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 3: There's also like the actual visible light flash too, and

995
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 3: that's like many times bigger than the gamma ray burst.

996
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 3: We'd see a star war happening just on the visible spectrum.

997
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: We might be able to, but the universe is a

998
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: little bit less transparent to that kind of light. Gamma

999
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: rays are awesome because most of the universe is transparent

1000
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: to them, but visible light, for example, is more likely

1001
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,959
Speaker 1: to get blocked by gas or dust or these kinds

1002
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: of things. But it is possible, and we should look

1003
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: for multiple signatures, right, So we can look in the

1004
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: gamma rays, we can look in the visible light. We

1005
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: certainly should keep an eye on that. There are also

1006
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: other more subtle ways that we might be able to

1007
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: detect nuclear weapons explosions on other planets and to distinguish

1008
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: them from gamma ray bursts. The point you were making

1009
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: earlier about telling the difference between nuclear weapons and gamma rays, All.

1010
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 3: Right, let's get into those other ways we could detect

1011
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 3: an alien nuclear war and whether or not it might

1012
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 3: ever happen. But first, let's take another quick break.

1013
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

1014
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt. You're probably

1015
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite,

1016
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: but the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy

1017
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

1018
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

1019
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

1020
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

1021
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

1022
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

1023
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US Dairy

1024
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

1025
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: the methane from maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

1026
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

1027
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

1028
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

1029
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

1030
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

1031
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: usdairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

1032
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,640
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1033
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 10: the roads every day. Remember they're real people with loved

1034
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:56,879
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1035
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:57,600
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1036
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 10: Protect our cyclists and pedestrians because they're to go safely.

1037
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 10: California from the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltran's.

1038
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,759
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1039
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Speaker 3: All right, So what do you think is this anari

1076
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 3: here where aliens have a nuclear war? Do you think

1077
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 3: they just disagree about something? Do you think it's inevitable

1078
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 3: for all civilizations to eventually snuff themselves out?

1079
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. I've heard this theory, you know, the

1080
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: great filter that the reason we haven't seen aliens or

1081
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: been visited by their probes is that technological civilizations don't

1082
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: tend to last very long because they tend to destroy

1083
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 1: themselves through climate change or annihilation or war or whatever.

1084
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 1: And that's possible, I suppose, but it seems to me

1085
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,720
Speaker 1: like a huge amount of projection. It's imagining that aliens

1086
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: are a lot like humans, and their psychology and their

1087
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 1: struggles and their sociology is a lot like ours, And

1088
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: that's possible, But it also seems to me to be

1089
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 1: possible for it to be completely different, for their politics

1090
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: to be totally different. And they never even invent nuclear weapons,

1091
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: So I think it's it's too big a question without

1092
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: really enough data to speculate on.

1093
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:58,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a big unknown, but I think it has

1094
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 3: maybe kind of the base is in the idea that

1095
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 3: you know, anything that evolves, evolution works by competition, right,

1096
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 3: and so basically any intelligent society will most likely it

1097
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 3: kind of come up like we did, being having this

1098
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 3: kind of balance, this idea of competition and killing each

1099
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 3: other but also being nice to each other.

1100
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had an astrozoologist on the podcast recently who

1101
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,800
Speaker 1: made that point. He said, predation is inevitable in evolution.

1102
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: You will eventually have one guy that wants to eat

1103
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: the neighboring guy. And that's probably true, but it doesn't

1104
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: mean that you doesn't mean you can't like progress past

1105
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 1: your evolutionary impulses. Right. Our behavior now is quite different

1106
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 1: from the behavior in which we evolved, much more complex,

1107
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: cooperative society. So I don't know that it's inevitable that

1108
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: you're dominated by that competitive nature, but hey, let's find.

1109
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 3: Out hopefully, listen, let's find out the negative outcome the

1110
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 3: hard way. So you're saying before that for us to

1111
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 3: see alien nuclear explosions in other planets, I mean they

1112
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 3: would have to basically detonate twenty five orders of magnitude

1113
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 3: many more bombs that all of humanity has for us

1114
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 3: to even have a chance to see it.

1115
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,919
Speaker 1: Yes, for us to detect these bright flashes, they would

1116
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: have to have a much more substantial arsenal than we.

1117
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 3: Have twenty five orders of magnitude more, right, like bombs

1118
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 3: that could destroy you know, I don't even know the

1119
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 3: number for that, but twenty five orders of magnitude many

1120
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 3: more planets.

1121
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, I don't know if I said twenty five times, right,

1122
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 1: it's ten to the twenty five times, So it's one

1123
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 1: with a lot of zeros in front of it. Absolutely.

1124
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 1: But if they do have a cataclysmic nuclear war, there

1125
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: will also be other impacts on their planet that we

1126
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 1: might be able to detect even if we don't spot

1127
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: the gamma ray burst. And these are the kind of

1128
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: things we might be able to spot from planets in

1129
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 1: other solar systems. And number one on that list is

1130
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: changes in their atmosphere.

1131
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 3: You mean, like, maybe we don't detect the explosion itself,

1132
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 3: that of the nuclear war, but we kind of can

1133
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 3: detect their nuclear.

1134
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: Winter, exactly, their nuclear winter. If you do have this

1135
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,280
Speaker 1: kind of event, you blow up a lot of nuclear

1136
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: bombs in your atmosphere, it would really change your atmosphere.

1137
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: Number one, It would very briefly make your atmosphere glow. Right,

1138
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: you're dumping a huge amount of energy into your atmosphere.

1139
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: It would ionize a bunch of the gases from the

1140
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: radiation produced by a lot of the byproducts, and so

1141
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: the atmosphere itself would glow sort of like the Northern Lights.

1142
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 1: Ionized air tends to emit this kind of glow. We've

1143
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: seen it on Earth, we've seen it on Venus, we've

1144
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 1: seen it on Mars, and so if you have a

1145
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 1: lot of nuclear bombs, then their atmosphere would have this

1146
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: air glow and we might be able to spot that.

1147
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 3: Wait, wait, wait, we could see their atmosphere glow like

1148
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 3: how like with telescopes.

1149
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, telescopes pointed at these planets might be able to

1150
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: gather some information about the light that's coming directly from

1151
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: the planet. Right, we now have direct imaging of exoplanets.

1152
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 1: And if you see, for example, a spike in the

1153
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: oxygen line that increases the oxygen rapidly by like a

1154
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 1: factor of ten, then our telescopes could spot that.

1155
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 3: Wait, if we can see the their atmosphere glow, surely

1156
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,919
Speaker 3: we would see their explosions themselves, right, Like explosions would

1157
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 3: be pretty flashy, right, you said, forty percent of a

1158
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 3: nuclear explosions energy goes into visible light. I mean we

1159
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 3: can see their atmosphere glow. Surely we would see their

1160
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 3: like a big flash before the explosion or during the explosion.

1161
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: The explosion itself might not be bright enough for us

1162
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: to see. It'll also be really short lived. What we're

1163
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: talking about here is seeing a change in the atmosphere chemistry,

1164
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: which we usually detect from how the light from the

1165
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: planet's star passes through its atmosphere or a flex off

1166
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: its atmosphere. So the light we get from these planets

1167
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 1: is not from any source on the planet itself, but

1168
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: from the star, which is why it's visible at all.

1169
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 1: The air glow might last longer than the flash, and

1170
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: so it might be easier to spot. But what we're

1171
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: doing is thinking about, like, what are the multiple signatures,

1172
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: because in the end, the story is going to be

1173
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: that you probably can't conclude that you've seen an alien

1174
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: explosion based on only one of these signatures, because there

1175
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: are other ways to mimic any one of them. So

1176
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: to conclude you've seen alien signatures, what you're going to

1177
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: want is multiple pieces of evidence.

1178
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 3: I see, like the afterglow will last longer, so there's

1179
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 3: more likelihood that will see it. But also it's sort

1180
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 3: of like more of a telltale sign, Like if a

1181
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 3: planet is glowing more than it should, then you can

1182
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 3: maybe infer that there was an explosion.

1183
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 1: There exactly, Like maybe you see a gamma ray burst

1184
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 1: and you see a bright flash of light from the

1185
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: visible light emission, and you're wondering, like, well, was that

1186
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: some sort of star collapsing or was it an alien

1187
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: nuclear bomb? Then you can look for the air glow.

1188
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: There are other effects in the atmosphere as well, like

1189
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 1: these lasts tend to produce a lot of nitrogen oxides

1190
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: which react with and deplete ozone, And so if you're

1191
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 1: watching the atmosphere of this planet, then you're looking in

1192
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:47,439
Speaker 1: the UV light, you can detect changes in the ozone layer.

1193
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: So a lot of these other signals require you to

1194
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: like be looking at one of these planets already and

1195
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: studying its atmosphere and seeing changes in its atmosphere. So

1196
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: increases in ionization of the gases that lead to air glow,

1197
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: or decrease in the ozone layer by interaction from some

1198
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 1: of the byproducts of the blast, or if you just

1199
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: like see the atmosphere become opaque. Right, you have a

1200
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: bunch of nuclear bombs go off, it's going to throw

1201
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: up a huge amount of either vapor or dust or

1202
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,439
Speaker 1: something to make the atmosphere more opaque, and that could

1203
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 1: last for years. Right, We're talking about a nuclear winter.

1204
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: And so if you see an atmosphere become suddenly more

1205
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: opaque than it was before, that tells you something big

1206
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: happened in that atmosphere.

1207
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 5: Mmm.

1208
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 3: Like if there's more dust in the atmosphere, all that

1209
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 3: could also be an asteroid, right, Like, if an asteroid

1210
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 3: hits a planet, it would also cause a big flash

1211
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 3: of light and also a lot put a lot of

1212
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 3: stuff in the atmosphere, right, Or would it look differently?

1213
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 3: Is it's not radioactive?

1214
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, an asteroid wouldn't look exactly the same as a

1215
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: nuclear bomb because it wouldn't deplete the ozone in the

1216
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: same way. It might not cause the same amount of

1217
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: air glow because it wouldn't have the same sort of

1218
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 1: radioactive byproducts, but a lot of the signatures would be

1219
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 1: the same. It would throw up a lot of dust

1220
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 1: in the atmosphere, probably make the atmosphere opaque for years

1221
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 1: as well. But you probably wouldn't also get the gamma

1222
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 1: ray burst. So there's lots of like things out there

1223
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: in the universe that could make signatures similar to alien

1224
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: nuclear total annihilation, global thermonuclear war, but not all of them.

1225
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: So if you happen to see like several of these

1226
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 1: signatures all together from an exoplanet, then you could probably

1227
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: conclude that there were aliens and they had just had

1228
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 1: a very very bad day.

1229
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 3: Or maybe they were celebrating something, you know, it's just

1230
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 3: how they do fireworks in that alien culture. Maybe they

1231
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 3: detected us and they were celebrating because they were going

1232
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 3: to get to eat a good meal later.

1233
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: Or maybe they try to have some fireworks and they

1234
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 1: accidentally shot the fireworks right at their nuclear arsenal and

1235
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: set it off. I think I've seen that on TikTok.

1236
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 3: All right, Well, I kind of feel like we have

1237
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 3: to be looking for these things though, right, like gamma rays,

1238
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 3: it's not like we have a camera looking out into

1239
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 3: the whole universe looking for gamma gray gamma rays detectors

1240
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 3: here on Earth are very specific. Likely we have to

1241
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 3: point them at specifics stars and stuff, right, So it

1242
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 3: seems kind of unlikely that we'll just happen to catch

1243
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 3: another civilization having their nuclear war just as we're pointing

1244
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 3: our telescope at them.

1245
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I think some people were hoping that this

1246
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: would be a very easy way, a very obvious way

1247
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 1: to identify alien civilizations, but unfortunately they're not as bright

1248
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: as you might imagine, and the universe is very very large,

1249
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 1: and there are other ways to create a lot of

1250
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: these signals, and so you have to be very lucky.

1251
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: You'd have to be looking at a planet basically when

1252
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 1: this happens, and have been looking at it beforehand, so

1253
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: you could see the changes. And this is one of

1254
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: the big problems in detecting alien civilizations is just the

1255
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: deep length of time. Right, maybe alien civilizations have existed

1256
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: and they've all killed each other and those signals came

1257
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: to Earth, but like a few hundred years ago, and

1258
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 1: we missed it, right. Jill Tarter is famous for saying

1259
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 1: that we've been watching for aliens for a cosmically insignificant

1260
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: amount of time, and adding looking for nuclear explosions is

1261
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: a good way to increase our ability to see them,

1262
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 1: but it doesn't change this problem that we've only been

1263
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: looking very very briefly and aliens could have existed and

1264
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: lived for millions of years and died off recently, and

1265
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: we still wouldn't have seen it.

1266
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I see what you're saying. You're saying like, maybe

1267
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 3: these star wars happened a long long time ago and

1268
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 3: the galaxy far far away. Is that kind of what

1269
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 3: the conclusion of scientist is?

1270
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, That's entirely possible.

1271
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 3: I feel like I've seen that in a movie already.

1272
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: Did somebody have that idea already? Dang it, man, every

1273
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 1: time I have a good idea.

1274
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 3: It's still your Nobel price again.

1275
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 1: And my ten billion dollars in box office receipts.

1276
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 3: All right, Well, I think it's still kind of interesting

1277
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 3: to think about, right, It's still worth thinking about, because

1278
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 3: if we do happen to see the city signals, right,

1279
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 3: then we would know a lot about not only the

1280
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 3: idea that we're out there alone or not, but also

1281
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 3: like what these other aliens are capable of.

1282
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and these aliens could of course develop technologies that

1283
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 1: are far beyond what we have and create flashes of

1284
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: light much much brighter than the kinds of things we're imagining,

1285
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 1: and we should keep our eyes open for that. I

1286
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 1: think the spirit of this is just to try to

1287
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 1: be inclusive about the kind of things we're looking for,

1288
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 1: to increase our chances of seeing anything at all.

1289
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, or I think, as we talked about in other episodes,

1290
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 3: like you might be limited in your imagination, right, Like

1291
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 3: maybe if you imagine giant space civilizations that have bombs

1292
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 3: that are twenty five orders that might need to bigger

1293
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 3: than our bombs, then we would be able to see

1294
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 3: that kind of spectacle.

1295
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about the Kardashev scale of civilizations. Some

1296
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 1: aliens might have like tapped into all of the energy

1297
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 1: output of their sun and built a huge laser capable

1298
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: of vaporizing planets. You know, I think I've seen that

1299
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: in the movie also, but it could be real, and

1300
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 1: if they shoot that laser in our direction, we might

1301
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 1: be able to see it.

1302
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 3: That is exactly the plot of the New Star Wars trilogies.

1303
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 3: They literally suck a sun into their gun and then

1304
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 3: shoot it at other planets.

1305
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 1: Not something we're recommending, but if it happens, we might

1306
01:03:58,120 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 1: be able to see it.

1307
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you'll be there with your popcorn gleefully looking

1308
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 3: at the extinction of thousands or billions of alien.

1309
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 1: Lives as they melt my eyeballs.

1310
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 3: All right, well, we hope they give you something to

1311
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 3: think about and maybe think about the trajectory of our

1312
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 3: own civilization, Like do we want to be known to

1313
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 3: other alien species by our last moments? Or should we

1314
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 3: be working harder to work things out between us so

1315
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 3: that they see us for other reasons?

1316
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 1: Or maybe we should take all of our nuclear bombs

1317
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: and launch them in a space and blow them up

1318
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 1: out there so aliens know whe're here.

1319
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 3: You mean, like a dinner bell? Like ring a dinner

1320
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 3: dinner bell?

1321
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 1: No, like an invitation new a party?

1322
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 3: Oh, all right, a dinner party. Sounds like maybe we

1323
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 3: should put that up for a vote before we do that.

1324
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 3: All right, well, we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for

1325
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 3: joining us, See you next time.

1326
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1327
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

1328
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Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. When you pop a

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Speaker 10: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on passing

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Speaker 10: the roads every day. Remember they're real people with loved

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Speaker 1: Need them to get home safely.

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Speaker 10: Detect our cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too, Go safely.

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