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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People who did cool stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Margaret Killjoy, and this week is Spooky Week.

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Speaker 1: Actually last week was Spooky Week, but I kind of

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Speaker 1: sucked up the timing about three part episodes. So this

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Speaker 1: week is Spooky Week. And instead of what I usually do,

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Speaker 1: tell you about some cool actual person from history, this

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Speaker 1: week I'm telling you about a cool person from folklore.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Jamie Loftus, who herself is a

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Speaker 1: creature out of folklore? What are you the personification of

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Speaker 1: a gun? I can't remember, Jamie? Oh what was I? I? Actually,

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Speaker 1: it's been heavily, it's been hotly debated over over time. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I let people interpret it for themselves.

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Speaker 1: It's not for me to say as as as someone

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Speaker 1: who's not a real person, more of an idea than

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Speaker 1: a person, It's not for me to say, Okay, that's fair.

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Speaker 1: It's up for the listener to decide. What have you've

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Speaker 1: been the what have you've been popularly interpreted to be

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Speaker 1: the personification of Margaret? Oh lord? Um? Well, what's fun

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Speaker 1: about that is I think people actually do do that

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Speaker 1: to me. But then they, like, you know, they pick

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Speaker 1: like one aspect of your personality and run with it.

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Speaker 1: And it used to be the like the like vagabond figure, right,

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Speaker 1: like it's the like perpetual traveler. And then it was

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Speaker 1: like the girl who lives in a black house that

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Speaker 1: she built in the forest, and like, both of those

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Speaker 1: are like true things about me. But yeah, I see

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Speaker 1: where they're coming from. To be fair, you did write

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Speaker 1: a chapter in your latest book about a girl turned

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Speaker 1: which that lives in a house in the forest. That's true.

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Speaker 1: That's true. So you did kind of write your own folklore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that seems like something I would do. Fair enough, they

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Speaker 1: have cultivated people often think that I am extremely chaotic

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Speaker 1: and don't have any semblance of control over my life.

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Speaker 1: But that's not true. That is completely that is factually inaccurate.

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Speaker 1: You're far too productive for that to be true. I

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Speaker 1: have my ship together just enough, thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: But here we are. Here we are too, or three

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Speaker 1: three women who represent ideas and are projected upon constantly. Sophie,

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Speaker 1: what's your professionally? Even my folklore? I think I think

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Speaker 1: you wrote my folklore if you told me I was

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Speaker 1: the pope of podcasting. So it's probably just like the

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Speaker 1: weird para social folklore that that all I do is

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Speaker 1: say no, which is not true the personification of sometimes

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Speaker 1: I say absolutely not. Yeah, so the queen of yeah yeah, Well, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: when you pointed out that, like, also professionally, we are

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Speaker 1: like that is the odd thing about doing this kind

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Speaker 1: of work is that you're like, oh, yeah, romanticize my life.

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Speaker 1: You'll buy my books. Right, You're like, it's not it's

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Speaker 1: not that negative, and it doesn't always even bother me.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes you're just like, well, I know what I'm like. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and and for me, nobody even knows what my

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Speaker 1: job is and that's fun and I'm not telling any

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Speaker 1: of you. Yeah. Well, one person whose job we do know. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The audio engineering is done by ian and the theme

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Speaker 1: music was written by a woman. Yeah. And where we

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Speaker 1: last left off, we talked about who Bobby Aga was,

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Speaker 1: about her chicken hut and her bony legs, and how

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Speaker 1: she ate children who misbehaved. Today we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about what she means and where she comes from. But

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Speaker 1: first another story. I'm excited. I literally I have my

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Speaker 1: blanket here too, and I'm saying, okay, this story is

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Speaker 1: called by command of Prince Daniel. That's a great name

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Speaker 1: for a story. Okay, okay, as translated yeah by Leonard

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Speaker 1: Arthur Magnus, also about a hundred years ago. I didn't

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Speaker 1: forgot to write down the date I picked the public

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Speaker 1: domain translations. Is what happened. I'm inherently mistrustful of someone

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Speaker 1: who actively goes by three names, so this will be interesting,

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Speaker 1: that's fair. Yeah, I'm trying to come up with the

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Speaker 1: counter example, but I don't have one off the top

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Speaker 1: of my head. Three namers generally fall into the buckets

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Speaker 1: of serial killers or child stars, and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and so you're just like, this is going to

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Speaker 1: be a mixed bag. We'll see YEA. Once upon a

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Speaker 1: time there was an aged queen who had a son

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Speaker 1: and a daughter who were fine sturred each children, but

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Speaker 1: there was also an yeah coming in hard. But there

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Speaker 1: was also an evil witch who could not bear them,

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Speaker 1: and she began to lay plots how she might contrive

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Speaker 1: their overthrow. I think this is not even whatever I

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Speaker 1: must pulling anything. So she to the old queen and said,

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Speaker 1: dear gossip, that must be the queen's name. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I am giving you a ring. Put it on your

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Speaker 1: son's hand, and then he will be rich and generous.

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Speaker 1: Only he must marry the maiden whom this ring fits.

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Speaker 1: The mother believed her and was extremely glad, and at

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Speaker 1: her death bade her son marry only the woman whom

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Speaker 1: the ring fitted. Time went by, and the boy grew up.

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Speaker 1: He became a man, and he looked at all the maidens.

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Speaker 1: Very many of them he liked, only as soon as

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Speaker 1: he put the ring on their finger. It was either

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Speaker 1: too broad or too narrow. So he traveled from village

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Speaker 1: to village, from town to town, and searched out all

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Speaker 1: the fair damsels. But he could not find his chosen one,

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Speaker 1: and he returned home in a reflective mood. What is

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Speaker 1: the mother? What is the matter? Brother? His sister asked him.

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Speaker 1: So he told her of his trouble, explained his sorrow.

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Speaker 1: What a wonderful ring you have, said the sister, Let

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Speaker 1: me try it on. No, hey, bro um, that wedding ring.

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Speaker 1: Why don't she slap it on this finger? No problems here? Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: the water system is poisoned. There's all these policy issues.

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Speaker 1: While this guy has been fucking off putting rings on

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Speaker 1: the random people. People are dying. Meanwhile, we have some

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Speaker 1: incest in progress. This is disgusting. Yeah, this is clearly

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Speaker 1: an HBO show. Yeah. She tried it on her finger,

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Speaker 1: and the ring was firm as firmly fixed as if

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Speaker 1: it had been soldered on, as though it had been

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Speaker 1: made for her. Oh, sister, you are my chosen bride

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Speaker 1: and you must be my wife. What a horrible idea brother,

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Speaker 1: That would be a sin. But the brother would not

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Speaker 1: listen to a word she said. He danced for joy

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Speaker 1: and told her to make ready for the wedding. She

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Speaker 1: wept bitter tears, went in front of the house and

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Speaker 1: sat on the threshold and let her tears flow. Two

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Speaker 1: old beggars came up, and she gave them to eat

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Speaker 1: and drink. They asked what her trouble was us, and

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Speaker 1: she needs must tell the two. Now weep no more,

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Speaker 1: but do what we say. Make up four dolls and

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Speaker 1: put them in four corners of your room. After your

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Speaker 1: brother calls you in for the betrothal, go and if

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Speaker 1: he calls you into the bridal chamber, ask for time,

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Speaker 1: trust in God, and follow our advice. And the beggars departed.

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Speaker 1: We need less doll based solutions in this world. I

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Speaker 1: don't know doll into girl to I mean, look, as

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Speaker 1: the owner of many dolls, they have not solved a

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Speaker 1: damn problem. And in fact, they've been an active deterrent. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they've maybe cause more problems then they've solved for me,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. You mean because when people come

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Speaker 1: into your house, it's just dolls staring at you from

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Speaker 1: the wall. Yeah, people don't like that, it turns out, Margaret.

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Speaker 1: But people come into your house, they seed nine thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars and they're like, um, interesting, I just got so

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Speaker 1: busy and sick. Okay, So what we should try is

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Speaker 1: we should trade and you can become a sword girl

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Speaker 1: for a while and I'll become a doll girl for

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Speaker 1: a while, and we'll just, yeah, like walking a mile

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Speaker 1: in each other's shoes. Um, it would be useful because

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Speaker 1: the pigs and valleys of being a doll girl are

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've really lived and I want to

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Speaker 1: know what it feels like to be a sword girl.

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Speaker 1: Also a horse girl. Yeah, I do want to be

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Speaker 1: a horse girl, but horses don't respect my authority and

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Speaker 1: go where they want. And it's hard. I've been saying

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Speaker 1: that for years. Horses are so fucking disrespectful. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The brother and the sister were betrothed, and he went

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Speaker 1: into the room and cried out, sister mine, come in.

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Speaker 1: I will come in a moment. Brother, I'm only taking

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Speaker 1: off my earrings. And the dolls in the four corners

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Speaker 1: began to sing, cuckoo, Prince Danilo, cuckoo, dio ver leo

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Speaker 1: ku Ku. It's as a brother Kukou weds his sister Kukou.

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Speaker 1: Earth must be split asunder Kukou and the sister lie

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Speaker 1: hid under. Then the earth rose up and slowly started

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Speaker 1: to swallow the sister, and the brother cried out again,

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Speaker 1: did she do? Oh wait, you're here? Okay, sorry, I'm no,

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Speaker 1: no no, And the brother cried out again, sister mine,

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Speaker 1: come into the feather bed in in a minute, Brother,

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Speaker 1: I am undoing my girdle. And the dolls began to saying, Cuckoo,

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Speaker 1: Prince de nilo, cukoo, giver you hukou. It is a

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Speaker 1: brother Kuku weds his sister Huku. Earth must be split

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Speaker 1: asunder cuckoo, and the sister lie hid under. Only she

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Speaker 1: had vanished now all but her head, and the brother

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Speaker 1: cried out again, come into the feather bed in, a minute, brother,

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Speaker 1: I am taking off my shoes, and the dolls went

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Speaker 1: on cooing, and she vanished under the earth, and the

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Speaker 1: brother kept crying and crying and crying, and when she

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Speaker 1: never returned, he became angry and ran out to fetch her.

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Speaker 1: He could see nothing but the dolls, which kept singing,

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Speaker 1: so we knocked off their heads and threw them into

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Speaker 1: the stove. Okay, I actually think I've maybe done this.

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Speaker 1: Had four dolls in the corner while man slowly gets

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Speaker 1: more and more furious and then just sucking bolt. It's like,

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Speaker 1: where are you nothing? Yeah? Yeah. The sister went farther

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Speaker 1: under the earth and she saw a little hut, standing

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Speaker 1: on cox feet and turning round. Hout, she cried out,

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Speaker 1: stand as you should with your back to the wood.

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Speaker 1: Exactly how there's a forest under the earth is not explained,

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Speaker 1: Just to be clear. I like the idea, I know, right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very gobliny, and I'm approve of all thanks goblining,

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Speaker 1: especially my dog who was a goblin. So the hut

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Speaker 1: stopped and the doors opened, and a fair maiden looked out.

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Speaker 1: She was knitting a cloth with gold and silver thread.

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Speaker 1: She greeted the guest friendly, and kindly but sighed and said, oh,

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Speaker 1: my darling and my sister, I am so glad to

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Speaker 1: see you. I shall be glad to look after you

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Speaker 1: and care for you as long as my mother is

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Speaker 1: not here, But as soon as she flies in, woe

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Speaker 1: to you and me, for she is a witch. When

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Speaker 1: she heard this, the maiden was frightened, but could not

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Speaker 1: fly anywhere. I think means like runaway. Okay. I was like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's a person, yeah, exactly like I can't fly anywhere either.

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Speaker 1: So she's not drink covid anyway, Okay. So she sat

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Speaker 1: down and began helping the other maiden at her work.

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Speaker 1: So they chattered along, and soon at the right time

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Speaker 1: before the mother came, the fair Maiden turned her guests

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Speaker 1: into a needle because she's totally not a witch herself,

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Speaker 1: turned her guest into a needle, stuck her into the

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Speaker 1: bassom and put it on one side. But scarcely had

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Speaker 1: this been done when Bobby Yaga came in. Now and

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Speaker 1: then everyone's cheering. Everyone at midnight screening's like, yes, there

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Speaker 1: she is, This is why we come here. Oh exactly,

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Speaker 1: what a rush she's back. Yeah, now, my fair daughter,

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Speaker 1: my little child, tell me at once, why does the

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Speaker 1: room smell so of Russian bones? Classic baba, you know,

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Speaker 1: sniff in that blood. Mother, there have been strange men

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Speaker 1: journey in past who wanted a drink of water? Why

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Speaker 1: did you not keep them? They were too old, mother,

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Speaker 1: much too tough a snack for your teeth. Henceforth, entice

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Speaker 1: them all into the house, and never let them go.

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Speaker 1: I must now go get about again and look out

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Speaker 1: for other booty. As soon as ever she had gone,

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Speaker 1: the maiden set to work again, knitting, talking and laughing.

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Speaker 1: Then the witch came into the room once more. She

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Speaker 1: sniffed about the house and said, daughter, my sweet daughter,

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Speaker 1: my darling, tell me at once, why does it smells

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Speaker 1: so of Russian bones? Old men who were just passing by,

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Speaker 1: who wanted to warm their hands. I did my best

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Speaker 1: to keep them, but they would not stay. So the

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Speaker 1: witch was angry, scolded her daughter, and flew away. In

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Speaker 1: the meantime, her unknown guest was sitting in the bassoon.

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Speaker 1: Someone is listening, but I keep thinking bassoon and yeah

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Speaker 1: it makes me laugh. And someone who's listening knows this word,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, what the fund is wrong with you?

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Speaker 1: You had two days to learn how to pronounce it.

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Speaker 1: The maidens once more set to work. Yeah, I do

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Speaker 1: like the bassoon. Okay. Anyway, the maidens once more set

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Speaker 1: to work. So it laughed and thought how they might

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Speaker 1: escape the evil witch. This time they forgot how. The

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Speaker 1: hours were flying by, and suddenly the witch stood in

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Speaker 1: front of them, darling, tell me where have the Russian

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Speaker 1: bones crept away? Here? My mother, a fair maiden is

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Speaker 1: waiting for you. Daughter, mind darling, heat the oven quickly,

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Speaker 1: make it very hot. If this were like a realistic story,

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Speaker 1: Bobby AGA's daughter would be like, Mom, stop talking about

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Speaker 1: Russian bones. Yeah, it's kind of weird, so embarrassing. I

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Speaker 1: have a friend over a. Yeah. So the maiden looked

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Speaker 1: up and was frightened to death, for Bobby Aga, with

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Speaker 1: the wooden legs, stood in front of her, and to

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Speaker 1: the ceiling rose her nose. So the mother and daughter

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00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,800
Speaker 1: carried firewood in logs of oak and maple, made the

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Speaker 1: oven ready till the flames shot up merrily. Then the

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Speaker 1: witch took her broad shovel and said, in a friendly voice,

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Speaker 1: go and sit on my shovel, fair child. So the

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Speaker 1: maiden obeyed, and the Bobby a god was going to

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Speaker 1: shove her into the oven, but the girl stuck her

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Speaker 1: feet against the wall of the hearth. Will you sit still, girl?

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Speaker 1: But it was not any good. Bobby Aga could not

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Speaker 1: put the maiden into the oven, so she became angry,

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Speaker 1: thrust her back and said, you are simply wasting time.

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Speaker 1: Just look at me and see how it is done.

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Speaker 1: Down she sat on the shovel with her legs nicely

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Speaker 1: trusted together. So the maidens instantly put her into the oven,

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00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,800
Speaker 1: shut the oven door and slammed her in, took their

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Speaker 1: knitting with them and their comb in their brush ran away. God,

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Speaker 1: I do love the confidence that it takes to be like, um,

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Speaker 1: this is how you sit on a shovel. Yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get put in? Yeah yeah, loving it? Yeah? They

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00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,360
Speaker 1: ran hard away, but when they turned round there was

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Speaker 1: bobby Aga running after them. She had set herself free,

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Speaker 1: some real ex mocking a ship in this Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: who hoo hoo. They're run the two. So the maidens,

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Speaker 1: in their need, threw the brush away and a thick,

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Speaker 1: dense coppice, which is like a bunch of trees a rose,

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Speaker 1: which she could not break through, so she stretched out

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Speaker 1: her claws scratched herself away through and again ran after them.

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Speaker 1: Whither should the two girls flee? They flung their comb

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Speaker 1: behind them, and a dark, murky oak forest grew up

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Speaker 1: so thick no fly could have ever flown its way through.

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Speaker 1: Then the witch wetted her teeth and set to work.

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Speaker 1: She went on, tearing up one tree after the other

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Speaker 1: by the roots, and she made herself away and again

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Speaker 1: set out after them, and almost caught up with them.

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Speaker 1: I like this one, Vasiline or whatever her name is, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: totally Vasiline the sexy. What was that? Was that? Vasilisa

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Speaker 1: the beautiful? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Vassiline sexy? Yeah, basically. Now,

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Speaker 1: the two girls had no strength left to run, so

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Speaker 1: through the cloth behind them, and a broad sea stretched out, deep,

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Speaker 1: wide and fiery. The old woman rose up, wanted to

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Speaker 1: fly over it, but fell into the fire and was

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Speaker 1: burned to death. Again with the burning, I know, the

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00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,000
Speaker 1: poor aiden's, poor homeless dubs did not know whither to go.

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Speaker 1: They sat down in order to rest, and a man

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Speaker 1: came and asked them who they were. He told his

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Speaker 1: master that the two little birds had fluttered onto his estate.

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Speaker 1: The two fairest damsels similar in form and shape, eye

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Speaker 1: for eye and line for line. One was his sister,

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Speaker 1: but which was it? What is this? Oh? Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: the master is the prince. Okay. One was a sister,

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Speaker 1: but which was it? He could not guess. So the

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Speaker 1: Master went to both of them. One was a sister,

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Speaker 1: which the servant had not lied. He did not know them,

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Speaker 1: and she was angry with him and did not say.

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Speaker 1: What shall I do? Asked the master. Master. I will

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Speaker 1: pour blood into an eu skin, put that under my armpit,

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Speaker 1: and talked to the maiden. In the meantime, I will

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Speaker 1: go and I will stab you in the side with

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Speaker 1: my knife, and then blood will flow, and your sister

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Speaker 1: will betray herself as to who she is the Nothing

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Speaker 1: could go wrong with this plan. This plan is air tight,

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Speaker 1: no notes, what could very well? Yeah, as soon as

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Speaker 1: it was said, it was done. The servants stabbed his

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Speaker 1: master in the side, and the blood poured forth, and

301
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Speaker 1: he fell down. And Margaret isn't the one who wrote

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Speaker 1: this story. So then his sister flung herself over him

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Speaker 1: and cried out, oh, my brother, my darling. Then her

304
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:33,000
Speaker 1: brother jumped up again, healthy and well. Margaret, if the

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00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,359
Speaker 1: moral of this story is she should have fucked her brother.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna break my iPad. Okay, he embraced

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Speaker 1: his sister, gave her a proper husband, and he married

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Speaker 1: her friend. It's not Game of thron, it's got it

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00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 1: got for the ring fitted her just as well, and

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Speaker 1: they all lived splendidly and happily. Okay, they did not

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Speaker 1: stick the landing on that one. I'll be perfectly honest

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00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,399
Speaker 1: that that that one was going great and then it

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00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 1: really turned to dogshit at the end. But like, oh,

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00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 1: actually this ring also fits my friend, so you can

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Speaker 1: have sex with her. And yeah, it's brother was so

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Speaker 1: come to the feather bed my ass. That's wow, what

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00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,680
Speaker 1: a what it can And and also Bobby Yaga gone

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00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:36,400
Speaker 1: without Bobby Bobby Yaga. I'm hitting this, everyone says Bobby

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00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,959
Speaker 1: Bobby Yaga. And then I just like watched a Russian

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Speaker 1: cartoon where she's like, I'm Bobby Aga and I'm like, okay, cool,

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Speaker 1: that's what I'm gonna try. And second, like, let's go

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Speaker 1: with that one. But she once again, uh disappeared in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the story. Yeah, because she's no one asks, um,

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00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 1: how there's a joke here. I don't know. How to

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Speaker 1: do it? Um okay. I wanted to read this one

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Speaker 1: because sometimes Bobbyaga is what's called in folklore stories a donor,

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Speaker 1: like someone who will give you the stuff you need, right,

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Speaker 1: like the skull with the fire to burn your slightly

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00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 1: wicked steps a stepmother, right. And sometimes she's just a

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Speaker 1: cannibal on a chicken hut. And I wanted to give

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Speaker 1: you a taste. Yeah, exactly, um, give you a taste

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Speaker 1: of the cannibal version. So who the fuck is she?

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00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 1: Where did she come from? We'll talk about her name

334
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 1: we mentioned a little bit about it last time, and

335
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 1: take a little bit more into it. The simplest but

336
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 1: sort of an accurate translation is grandmother witch baba meaning

337
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: grandmother short for babushka um. No, one's really presented a

338
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 1: compelling case about the etymology of of yoga, but people

339
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:51,160
Speaker 1: have done it, and baba icily means grandmother in tons

340
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 1: of Slavic languages. My own Irish grandmother went by baba,

341
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: which is not Irish at all. It might actually just

342
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 1: be my family being weird, but maybe it's spread elsewhere.

343
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 1: I I don't really know. It trips off that I

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00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 1: was as you were saying that I realized that I've

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00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: written on a show where there's the main grandmother characters

346
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 1: called Baba, and I was like, wow, my memory is

347
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,360
Speaker 1: um bad. One of the things I found really interesting

348
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 1: I found at least one reference to that um baba

349
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 1: as a meaning grandmother is probably derived from the Old

350
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 1: Russian baba meaning midwife, sorceress, or fortune teller. So it's

351
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 1: actually like grandma means which not the other way around

352
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: or whatever. Okay, And I don't I don't hate that.

353
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 1: I don't hate that. So basically her names means Granny

354
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,360
Speaker 1: Yuga the witch as far as I can tell. As

355
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 1: a as a folkloric figure, there's actually no known origin.

356
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 1: There's a lot of guesses, and I have some guesses

357
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: as well that well they're not my own guess is

358
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: they're the guesses that I prefer esthetically and or I mean,

359
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,200
Speaker 1: it seemed more convincing out of the stuff what I've

360
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 1: read about it. My question is like, in the chronology

361
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 1: of witches, do you know, like where where does she come?

362
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: Is she like an early folkloric which character or somewhere

363
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: in the middle, or I guess I I there's just

364
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 1: been so many witch figures throughout history. I don't really

365
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: know where she falls. I haven't done I actually at

366
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 1: some point want to do um more of a deep

367
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 1: dive into the history of witches. And I have like

368
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: the stuff that I've read about it and stuff, but

369
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: that's constantly changing as people present different ideas. So I

370
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: the answers I don't know. UM I can say that

371
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: I can because people don't know when she comes from.

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00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 1: It seems like she actually is a very similar actual

373
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 1: origin as witches, but as sort of a a mythic

374
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: figure rather than like, oh, that lady over there will

375
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: like read the entrails of a chicken, so we should

376
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: kill her, you know. I like, I mean, I like,

377
00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: I like the variations on like I don't know. I

378
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: like the flavor of which that she is where it's

379
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: like she's very powerful. It doesn't seem like the story

380
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 1: has a vested interest in doing away with her or

381
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 1: like making a strong I don't know. I I don't

382
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 1: think I've encountered this flavor of which before excited well,

383
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: speaking of flavors of witches, uh, which flavored potato chips

384
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: that you could buy called witch chips? Our sponsors today's

385
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: here are some ads and we are back. I'm hoping

386
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 1: that which is would be into dill pickle chips, only

387
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: because I hope that I'm a witch and dill pickle

388
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,239
Speaker 1: chips are delicious. Have you have either of you ever

389
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: tried them. I've had dill pickles and I've had chips.

390
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: I've had dill pickle chips. They're great. They have no

391
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: no right to be as good as they are. It's

392
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: just it's mostly just really loud salt. That's how I

393
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: would describe the chips sort of. But like, but but

394
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: what if what if vinegar minded her business and it

395
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: was just salt screaming at the top of its lungs.

396
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: It's all capital letters. Salt is what the pickle chip

397
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: tastes like. And that is like as a sodium head.

398
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: All right, I love it. I love it. Big sodium guy, um,

399
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: huge sodium guy. Yeah. Okay, So Bobby I got started

400
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 1: showing up in written sources in the eighteenth century and

401
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: things that we're talking about. How she's been around for

402
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,719
Speaker 1: a very long time, like collections of Russian folklore as

403
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: well as eighteenth century Russian political cartoons. Okay, there are

404
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: these single panel woodblock prints called love Key that were

405
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: in the style of the time, and she was a

406
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: common figure in these woodblock prints as sort of an archetype.

407
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: And she was used in a couple of different ways,

408
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: and people like to argue about People feel very certain

409
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: about what the interpretation of her and these are, but

410
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: they disagree with each other, and I have no fucking

411
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: way of knowing. Some ways she was used to represent

412
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: like the old ways and the old beliefs, but an

413
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: other times she was probably used as like this, like

414
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: finished lady married the tsar at some point, and it

415
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: was like, here's this fucking evil which she's going to

416
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: come funk up our good Christian czar by being finished

417
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,479
Speaker 1: and therefore like you know, a barbarian or whatever. Okay.

418
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: In seventeen fifty five she appeared in writing for maybe

419
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: the first time, and it was a list of Slavic

420
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: gods and their Greek counterparts, and so she was listed

421
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: as a god and in it she was the only

422
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: god or one of the only gods in that list

423
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: with no counterpart. There was no counterpart to a Greek god. Wow,

424
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,479
Speaker 1: that's cool. I know, there's like later p who kind

425
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: of comparative her sphone, but it wasn't. I think being

426
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: done at the time. I mean, I I like that

427
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: as sort of being canonical to who she is of

428
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: like she doesn't she has so much like power and

429
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: intent that she doesn't need a sidekicker counterpart. Like that's amazing. Yeah,

430
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: and it it makes her basically like unique and like

431
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: indigenous to that area, and that is going to tie

432
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: into some of the kind of ship that I find

433
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 1: really interesting about it. Um. Okay, But there's one other

434
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: at a station attestation people talking about her from back

435
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: in the day that's super interesting to me. There was

436
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: this guy, his name was a Chokov MacHale, and he

437
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: wrote a book in sev two called Dictionary of Russian Superstitions,

438
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: and I cannot find an English translation of it. I'm

439
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: very sad, and I almost bought a Russian copy of

440
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: it because it's that rock and it's all about all

441
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: the weird pagany ship that people were doing. Um, unlike

442
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: the weird good normal stuff like being part of a

443
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: blood drinking called like Christianity. Um, it's all about the

444
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: like superstitions. Blood. Yeah. I actually don't remember whether Orthodox.

445
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: I don't know whether Orthodox believes it literally turns into

446
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: blood in your body. The way that Catholics did. But um,

447
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: I know that there was Catholics there too anyway, So

448
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: it's all about like, well, yeah, Catholics famously chill. It's

449
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: about blood, blood sacrifices and shamanic marriages and all this

450
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: like stuff. And he doesn't like superstitions, and as far

451
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: as anyone can tell, as as far as historians can tell,

452
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: he didn't make up anything in the book. But he

453
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: also wasn't very great about vetting his sources, so he

454
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: didn't like be like, oh, you know, would be funny

455
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: as I like if we did this, um, But instead

456
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: he's just like, oh, I met a guy in the

457
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: road who told me this, and that's totally what people do,

458
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: you know. So he's not the strongest source in the world,

459
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: and this is the one of the main sources we

460
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: have about well. He he wrote down a lot of

461
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: folk tales and folk songs, and he systematized Russian legislation,

462
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: not in this book, in a different book. He's just like,

463
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: I feel being like a guy who knows how to

464
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: write books was like kind of just like a job

465
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: at the time. I feel like that's what podcasting is

466
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: right now, where you're like if you know how to

467
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: do this, you can kind of talk about fucking whatever

468
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: or that's I'm banking on that. And in this guy's corner,

469
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, you can just totally switch areas

470
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: of expertise because you knew how to write something down.

471
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: I mean that that is my job, yes, like tychically

472
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 1: what we're both doing. He also wrote a book speaking

473
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: of calendars that the devil could make in such or

474
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: different sapphic things. He wrote a book called Comely Cook,

475
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: or Adventures of Lewd Woman. I love him. I'm like yeah.

476
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: In his seventy two Superstitions book, he talks about an

477
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: Eastern Slavic goddess named Yagi Baba. And so this is

478
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: a pre Baba Yaga character who sits in an iron

479
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: mortar with an iron pestle in her hand and is

480
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: a death god. And I think the mortar and pestle

481
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: for like grinding up the dead right, like like being

482
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: returned to the earth kind of stuff. And there's very

483
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: little information about a Yagia Babba and in English, um,

484
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: basically just like the sentence or two from this guy's book.

485
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: But people made blood sacrifices to her, which she used

486
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: to feed her two granddaughters. And in some Bobby stories

487
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: she has two granddaughters, and sometimes she has two sisters.

488
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: So and then the story you just told me she

489
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: had a daughter, is that correct? Do we know who? Like,

490
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: how does Bobbo go? Who bon reproduced? Yeah? Who? She? Who? She?

491
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: Fucking we will we will get okay good, because it

492
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: seems like, I mean, at least in the story you

493
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: just told, it seemed like the daughter was very maybe

494
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: the I can't imagine Bobby got Jean are recessive, but

495
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: like she seemed like she didn't have the Babby you

496
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: got intensity about her. Yeah, yeah, but she was magic

497
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: and like turned her and turned her friend into a

498
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: needle and also looked exactly like the friend. I mean,

499
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: that is some like doppel banger ship, right, Like that

500
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: is like oh, cute girls coming to the window. Let

501
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: me just like, oh I am I am you No,

502
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: I'm a cute girl. So yeah, that story was wild.

503
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: I I got, I got, I got sidetracked by the

504
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: the incest fake out. But there's a lot going on

505
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: in there. Yeah, yeah, I know, it's it's weird. Um. Yeah,

506
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: So from as far as I can tell, this seems

507
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: like this is the main argument that Babbia is based

508
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: on the Agia Babba is based on an Eastern Slavic goddess,

509
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: that there's not that much information about the people perform

510
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: blood sacrifices. To Vladimir prop Right in the nineties talk

511
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: about ho Bobby represents the guardian between the land of

512
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: the living and the forest of the dead, and so

513
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: this is where she starts getting compared to Persephone in

514
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: Greek mythology though, the goddess of the harvest who ruled

515
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: the underworld. M h. And there's actually some stuff about

516
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: her being like an agricultural god to not Persephone, but

517
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: um Bobbia god being like kind of an agricultural god.

518
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: And there's like some stuff about I actually literally don't

519
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: remember if I put this in the script later and not,

520
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: so maybe I'll end up repeating this or skimming past it.

521
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: But like plowing the earth with her teeth um, and

522
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: that's like why she has like the wild fucked up teeth, okay,

523
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: which is fucking cool. Her hut, her hut faces the forest,

524
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: which is the land of the dead, and the people

525
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: have to turn the hot around because they can't walk

526
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: to the other side because that's the land of the

527
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: dead in this reading of like the forest representing the

528
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: land of the dead and death. So they have to

529
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: turn her house around. Yeah, because okay, when you show

530
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: up Bobby August houses facing the wrong way and you

531
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: have to say like hut hut, turn around and face me. Um, okay,

532
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: And because you're kind of like, well, why don't you

533
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: just walk around the house? Like when I think to myself,

534
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: I would like to be um by the back door

535
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: of a house, I don't think to myself, how can

536
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: I entice the house to turn around? I tend to

537
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: think to myself, I will walk around that. Margaret, you're

538
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: being too accommodating. You need to ask for what you

539
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: need if you need the house to turn to you.

540
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: And that's self care, and that's practice, and that's pottery

541
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: class all in one turned to me. Yeah. And so

542
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: this makes the stories tie into the hero's journey if

543
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: it's about like the land of the dead and ship right. Um,

544
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: And I kind of like low ki hate the hero's

545
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: journey as like a plot structure that is like used

546
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: for everything. But this concept throughout folklore, especially Western folklore,

547
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: where you're like going into the land of the dead

548
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: to return to the land of the living um and

549
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: sometimes it's like a death and rebirth. Sometimes that means

550
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: sometimes I was symbolized by being swallowed by an animal,

551
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: and so the chicken legs as part of the hut

552
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: like could be like the house is the animal that

553
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: you're getting swallowed by when you're being reborn. And so

554
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: there's this this theory. And I also think that that

555
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: sometimes the walls are made of bone, right, and certainly

556
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: the gate walls are made of bone. I feel like

557
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: that ties into that too. There's this theory that Bobbia

558
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: gott and the journey to her it was like this

559
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: coming of age ritual in the pre Christianized version of

560
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: all this, and so going on this hero's journey is

561
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: how these characters become adults. And there's no actual like

562
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: the people who have done a lot of research about

563
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: Bobbia go like theorize this, but it's like mostly based

564
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: on like, well pretty much every other culture we've looked

565
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: at has this, so they probably did too, we don't know.

566
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: And so it's like, yeah, okay. To quote Andreas Johns,

567
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: who wrote kind of the main English language academic study

568
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: of Bobbiica, uh, and he's discussing a different author, Vladimir

569
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: props Ideas quote as the initiation will died out only

570
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: Bobby AGA's association with death was remembered. With the appearance

571
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: of agriculture, a new religion replaced older hunting beliefs, and

572
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: the old divinities were reinterpreted as evil spirits. Your god,

573
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 1: the mother and mistress of the beasts, became a witch.

574
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: And I actually a little bit there's a lot of

575
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: like modern anthropological stuff about how like this idea that

576
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: like everyone was hunters and then suddenly was like, what

577
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: if we throw the seeds in the ground. Now everyone's agriculture,

578
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: And like there's been a lot of like anthropological ship

579
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: about how like ship was like way blurrier than that,

580
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: And so I'm like less excited. I'm less quick to

581
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: believe that has to do with like the coming of

582
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: agriculture disrupting that traditional form, and probably more of the

583
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: coming of Christianity that made her a demon, and like

584
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: all the old gods become like myths or demons instead

585
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: of God's you know that scans more for me as well. Yeah, yeah,

586
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: And and so she becomes a boogeyman with coming to Christianity,

587
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: and if you're obedient and listen to your mother, you

588
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: survive your encounter with her. She's the bad mother to

589
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: be contrasted with the good mother, like we were talking about.

590
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: And then one of the reasons I find that really

591
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 1: interesting is that as I was doing all this reading

592
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 1: about rural Slavic and rural Russian kind of like medieval

593
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: early medieval and stuff families, not everyone lived in a

594
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: nuclear family. A lot of rural people lived in extended

595
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: family units under in one household, under one patriarch. And

596
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: then even that under one patriarch might be an assumption

597
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: from patriarchal anthropologist, but I don't know. So a kid

598
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: grows up with a bunch of mothers because you grow

599
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: up with like a bunch of family units that are

600
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: one family unit, because you live rurally and it takes

601
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: a village to raise a child, right, all right? And

602
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: the wackiest thing that people like to talk about Bobby

603
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: at God that I have a unique interest in. She's

604
00:35:54,120 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: also perceived as a a phallic mother to some folklore scholars. Okay,

605
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: she's unpacked that. Yeah, so she's presented as wielding a

606
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: pestle and a broom. She has a bony leg and

607
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 1: a large nose and making air quotes here, and sometimes

608
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: she has a giant iron tooth or an iron hook,

609
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: and she attacks with snakes sometimes and sometimes she has

610
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: an entire army. These are all like masculine traits, and

611
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: some of them are like penis traits, according to people

612
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: who are under the like psycho sexual ship that I

613
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: don't really believe in personally. Yeah, so to quote Andreas

614
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: John's about this again. Some psychologists have interpreted fantasies about

615
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: phallic women as an expression of male castration anxiety. As

616
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: frightening as the fantasies of phallic women may be themselves,

617
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: they serve to deny women's genital difference and the more

618
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: frightening possibility that a man might lose his penis. Freud

619
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: states that the snakes which form Medusa's hair are quote

620
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: derived are are derived from the castration complex. It is

621
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: a remarkable fact that, however frightening they may be in themselves,

622
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: they never less sort of actually as a mitigation of

623
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: the horror of Medusa, because they replaced the penis, the

624
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: absence of which causes the horror. Huh. I think this

625
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: is a bullshit. But I hear Freddian theory and I'm

626
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: just like, sounds like it might have been more of

627
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: a him thing, and uh, this is not our this

628
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: is maybe not the collective issue that we're making it

629
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 1: out to be. Yeah, the whole like well you would

630
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: say that is having penis of it, never the penis

631
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: envy ship, the phallic woman thing. It's like and like, okay,

632
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: so there's this a concept of like the phallic woman,

633
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: and which is writing. Broomsticks is another example of this.

634
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: And there's like people who have written all the ship

635
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 1: about Buffy the Vampire Slayer as a phallic woman because

636
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: like she runs around staking people, right, and I'm just

637
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: like weapons are pointing and sharp, like I know, I

638
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: know he's like I didn't like the tree isaginal weapon

639
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: like a net? I guess um yeah, no, no, it's

640
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: it's um. I mean it's interesting to me because I'm

641
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: interested in trying to explore like the concepts of transness

642
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: throughout history and ship and so less is the like

643
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: phallack mother. But there's like this like it's this like male,

644
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: I don't put this Okay, So it's like Shroedinger's genitals

645
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: in the unobserved state a man or a woman could

646
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: have any set of genitals, and so witches and Bobby

647
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: Got could have anything. And it's like presented as like,

648
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: that's part of the fear of witches and these like

649
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: masculinized women is that they like could have dicks, and

650
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's horseship. But the part

651
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: of it I like is like, yeah, I don't know.

652
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I I know some women with dicks. And

653
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: just the phrase Shrodinger's genitals stop being my tracks and

654
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: I'll never move again. It's so good. That was an

655
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: unbelievable turn of phrase. Thank you for that. Yeah, no, yeah,

656
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: thanks uh and so okay, so this makes her like

657
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: a potentially transfigure um and and in the ways in

658
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: which she was a fertility goddess actually tie into that

659
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: in that like, um like because she's she's the one

660
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: plowing the fields. There's like fertility shit about the like

661
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: masculine act rather than the receptive whatever fucking nonsense that

662
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 1: people are into that ship. Yeah, and she also seems

663
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: similar to stop talking about drunk for a moment. She

664
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 1: seems similar to me, to another another goddess, another Slavic

665
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: goddess named Mokosh is a deaf god and a mother

666
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: goddess and Mokosh is the ruler of death and fertility,

667
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: life and rebirth. And she's like more famous because she

668
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: was one of the gods who was sort of like

669
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: h canonized essentially, like not by the Christians, but by

670
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,280
Speaker 1: like a a formal codification of some of the pagan

671
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: ship that was happening. She was the only girl that

672
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: got just like the weird guy's book, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

673
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: This is like there's like more like statues and shipped

674
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: to Mokosh around and like and like, um, I wish

675
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: i'd remember wrote down more exactly, but like a guy

676
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 1: who like formalized a lot of the pagan ship only

677
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: picked one girl and picked Mokosh. And she's the ruler

678
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: of death and fertility, life and rebirth. Her name probably

679
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: means moisture, which rules. And she's related to another Slavic goddess.

680
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: Go ahead, not sorry, just folklore. Sometimes you're like I guess,

681
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: so yeah, sure, great, Yeah. She's related to another slav

682
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,919
Speaker 1: At goddess, matt Zemla, who is called the moist Mother Earth.

683
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: And in the nineteenth century, the two goddesses Mocash and

684
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: Matt Zamiela sort of became one in a lot of

685
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: like people's minds and stuff. Um, and the relationship is

686
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: like super fuzzy, like sometimes they're related and sometimes they're not.

687
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: Like and Mokosh, there are claims that she has been

688
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: portrayed with male genitals throughout time, and so you know,

689
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 1: transgoddess is for the wind from from my book, um,

690
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: and Mokosh probably came from the fins like Bobby Agamida,

691
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a bit or I guess

692
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: we get to it now. Okay, I want to talk

693
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: about chicken. Yeah, yeah, yes, okay, this is the part

694
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: that I feel most confident about. I know where the

695
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: chicken legged hut comes from. I can't believe you've We've

696
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: been here, We've been here for two hours. Tell me,

697
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: all right, does the chicken well, it probably comes from

698
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: the vendors of No. I'm going to give you the

699
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 1: actual answer, but first we have to do an ad pivot.

700
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: Oh my god, advertisers support the economy that we all

701
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: participated in gladly. We're all so excited about the way

702
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: the economy works. Sophie's shaking her head and disbelieve it.

703
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 1: How well I'm doing my job. Listen to the ads

704
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,439
Speaker 1: so I can hear where this damn chicken leg hunt

705
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: comes from. Already, all right, ads, ads over, Okay, I

706
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: want you to google what you you're actually at an

707
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: I pad, you might not be able to do this.

708
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: I gotta, I gotta phone, I gotta telephone. What's up? Okay?

709
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: I want you to google, Um, Sammy s a m

710
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 1: I storehouse and an image searches say, Sammy storehouse. Oh god,

711
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: my tabs are so embarrassing. I just had I just

712
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: had to open the Minion's menu at eyehop so I

713
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: can type this in Sammy storehouse. Okay, And we're hitting images. Oh,

714
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: this building has gams. Yeah, that is a chicken leg

715
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: at hut Okay, okay, so that so it's I'm looking

716
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: at um. The first result is kind of a log cabin,

717
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: but it's got it's got sexy little legs. It's got

718
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: four four sexy legs, which is chickens don't well. But

719
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: her hot sometimes has four legs, sometimes as two and

720
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: sometimes as four. This I can I'll tell you about it. Yeah,

721
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 1: are these still? Are these still feasible? Can we still

722
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: do this, So I don't know. I mean, yeah, you

723
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: can certainly build that, and and the some Sami folks

724
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: still do. So this comes this chicken legged hut. As

725
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: far as I can tell, and as far as a

726
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: lot of other people can tell, I didn't come up

727
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,959
Speaker 1: with this idea. Um. It comes from the Sami people,

728
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: who are indigenous to what is usually has historically been

729
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: called Lapland, but is better known as a Sami Um,

730
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 1: which is northern Norway, Sweden, Finland and like the northwestern

731
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: bits of Russia. And for centuries, the Sami actually had

732
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: little contact with the Germanic Scandinavians who lived in southern

733
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: Scandinavia UM, which is like the Vikings and the Norse

734
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: and Germanic gods and all that ship. The Sami had

735
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: their own fucking thing going on and still do. They

736
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: lived in places that were too barren to cultivate, so

737
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 1: they were left alone for a long time. UM. Coastal

738
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: Sami traditionally sustained themselves as fishers, while those in the

739
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 1: interior traditionally heard reindeer. The nineteenth century caused force assimilation

740
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: project of quote civilizing them as part sad and true,

741
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: banning their languages, giving incentives to settlers to move into

742
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: their territory. Their children were taken to residential schools to

743
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: have their culture destroyed. All the usual colonizers ship. These days,

744
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: Sami lands are being exploited for mineral and oil and

745
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: gas resources, disturbing the reindeer um and I don't know, um,

746
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: just destroying an entire indigenous Yeah, because I think that's

747
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: something that people don't recognize enough, is that colonization happens

748
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: everywhere in the world. Um. And you know, indigenous people

749
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: getting shoved into states and then oppressed happens sucking everywhere. Interestingly,

750
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: this is a theme that is explored in the movie

751
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: Frozen two. That's cool. Yeah, that's just a fact. Yeah.

752
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: I mean I have not heard about the um about

753
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: Sami culture before. This is all new to me, okay,

754
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: And so many of them, the Sammi were traditionally migratory,

755
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: the folks who would follow the reindeer and heard reindeer,

756
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: and so they built storehouses on stilts for all the

757
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: stuff that they weren't taking with them on migration. And

758
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: I've read this both as storehouses of dried food, like

759
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: you know, all the stuff that they prepare and they're like,

760
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: why can't we can't take all this with us. I've

761
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: also read it as storehouses of just like stuff, like

762
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: all the stuff that when we come back here we're

763
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: gonna want. And so wild animals can't get in because

764
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: the stilts and sometimes they didn't have windows, and the

765
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: stilts were sometimes for tree trunks with their roots looking

766
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: like chicken feet. And yeah, I I cannot imagine after

767
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 1: seeing this sort of image, I cannot imagine another origin

768
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 1: of this, because, um, the you know, the Slavs were,

769
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 1: if at their like wildest, venturing into the far birch forests,

770
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: you know, um, and traditionally Bobby Aga lives in birch forest.

771
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: That's when you would be encountering something like this. I

772
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: mean visually it is so fucking cool looking, Like I

773
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 1: get why the image stuck because it it looks amazing. Yeah, totally.

774
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: And so the Sami aren't fins, right, There's a lot

775
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: of different groups of people that share that little sort

776
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: of vague. Um, it's not part of the Scandinavian Peninsula,

777
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: the Finland part. But there are several Finnish ogresses, one

778
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: of him is good and one of whom is bad.

779
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: Who are seen as potential origins of Bobby a gaswell,

780
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: or like influences on it that like Bobby Gas like

781
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: both of those ogresses at once, and one more weird

782
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: thing that ties into the Bobby a myth. Now she's

783
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: like shoving, um, shoving our protagonist into the oven on

784
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: the like shovel or whatever into the huge oven. Boy

785
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: do I okay? Well? Um? There was this Eastern Slavic

786
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: traditional healing method called baking children where if the kid

787
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 1: is sick, especially like a child who's born too early

788
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: or like some other issues, you put them in the

789
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: oven for a while, um not too hot obviously, instead

790
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: of timer because it's easy to get distracted, you know,

791
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: like I get yeah, yeah, we've all been there. So

792
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: that was a thing that people did, and it's like

793
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: almost certainly the origin of the the The person who

794
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 1: knows the traditional methods is like the evil witch who

795
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 1: bakes children. Right, I feel, Okay, this did it work?

796
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that. I think there

797
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 1: are probab probably some things that would have helped with

798
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: but I do not know. And I think that they

799
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 1: did it in a way to your kid, Yeah, just

800
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: made made it afraid of enclosed spaces for the rest

801
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: of her life. What Yeah, wow, Freud would have had

802
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: a fucking field day with us back into the womb

803
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 1: ship too. It was a fucking weirdo. I just like,

804
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: you know, uh that is um okay, so so bad

805
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: witches put like baked children? Yeah yeah, question mark okay, okay,

806
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: so that ogresses in this case. Yeah, well yes, sometimes

807
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes she's an over us. And so, as

808
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: far as I can tell, basically, Bobby Aga in post

809
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 1: Christian folklore represents the fear of the pagan other, especially

810
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: the sort of like indigenous pagan other, the knowledgeable, strange

811
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: people in the woods in Siberia, it seems like Bobby

812
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: Aga represents the fear of the indigenous people out there.

813
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 1: And then in western Russia it was like the indigenous

814
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: people who lived there are like the the people who

815
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: are being mothered by this. And I think that this

816
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: ties into how she can always smell the Russian blood

817
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,399
Speaker 1: because she's not Russian. She's a foreigner. She's not from

818
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:23,320
Speaker 1: a different place, but she's from a foreign culture because Russia, clearly,

819
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's a very large place. And so it's

820
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: that colonial storytelling tradition of um, implying that all of

821
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 1: the evil comes from the indigenous character. That's being Okay, Yeah,

822
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: that that's my organized And then it might be more

823
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: of like just purely about paganism. Um, it might be

824
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: more a bunch of other stuff, but that that is

825
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: my read of it, Okay. But she's also got the

826
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: like entrancing power of the other two, right, because she's

827
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: not just a villain. She's the villain in about two

828
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: thirds of the stories she's in, and she's almost unique

829
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: and folk and folklore because overall she's like this bad

830
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: bit who eats kids. But she's the representation of the

831
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: catalyst of change that's necessary in any person's life. People

832
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: have described as like the god of tough love. That's

833
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: a cool that's a cool tital I could use that.

834
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 1: And I like how a lot of the kind of

835
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: pre Christian beliefs or morals like survive in monsters. I

836
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: really have this whole thing where I really like monsters.

837
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: And to quote Madame Pemita writing for Bust, if we

838
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: look back even further, we see her in her truer

839
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: guys as the forest Mother, the guardian of the woods.

840
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: This is where her dicey nature comes in for our ancestors.

841
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 1: The wild was truly ambiguous. Nature provided food, materials, and beauty,

842
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: but it could also be devil you, devour you, and

843
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: destroy you. Babba Yaga is just like that, cruel one

844
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: moment and achingly sweet and generous the next. An ancient

845
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 1: Slavic paganism of three planes of existence. There's the middle

846
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 1: world where we all live. We've the upper world where

847
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: the gods hang out, and then you have the lower world,

848
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: which isn't hell. It's like where the plant spirits and

849
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: the animals and like the mythical things hang out. And

850
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: Bobby as like lower world all the way. Okay, I

851
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: I like that, uh that kind of not I I

852
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: don't even know if that's a hierarchy, but I like

853
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: I like that concept of the lower world. Yeah, yeah,

854
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: me too. I want to learn more about a lot

855
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: of this stuff, like because a lot of this is

856
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: like mentioned in Passing and stuff about Bobby at God.

857
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: And then I like start digging into it because I

858
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 1: get excited, and then I remember that I um have

859
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: to eventually finished projects. But even like the concept of

860
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: the forest beneath the ground and like stuff like that,

861
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: it just I don't know all of that imagery is

862
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: so cool. Yeah, totally, um, and so so Christian Russians

863
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: don't actually have to go very far to find a

864
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: pagan other. There's been an unbroken tradition of paganism right

865
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 1: to the present day within Russia. Um, about five miles

866
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: east of Moscow, there the Mari people who are ethnically

867
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: finn U grick I believe, and they claim that their

868
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: religion is about seven thousand, five and thirty years old.

869
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: And when I say about, I mean they claim that

870
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: their religion is seven thousand, five and thirty years old.

871
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: I was like, that's a very precise about um, which

872
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,919
Speaker 1: which implies that they have a specific start date. Yeah,

873
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: and in so many ways they're just like the archetypical

874
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: pagans that people when they think about European paganism, Um,

875
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: they're polytheists. They meet in sacred groves instead of churches,

876
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: and and they've run across some problems over the years.

877
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: You'd think that, Um, the history of history is the

878
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: history of people accepting religious differences. That's I mean, that's

879
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 1: the way I've understood it, and I've only read books

880
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 1: from the winners, So I think that that's probably chill. Yeah,

881
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, we totally accepted them. And then they

882
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: just stopped believing what they believed peacefully. Yeah, there's a

883
00:52:55,040 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: holiday about that coming up. Garbage. Sorry, continue. So the

884
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: problems that they've run into first, they ran into the

885
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 1: problems of Christians. Russia started christianizing more intensely around the

886
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 1: yearth a thousand, and a lot of Pagans had to

887
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 1: resettle or do what Christianized people have done all over

888
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: the world, especially Catholics, they syncretize. Um, there's this like

889
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,479
Speaker 1: dual faith thing that people have going on where people

890
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: managed successfully for hundreds of years, if not thousands of years,

891
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,760
Speaker 1: where they're like, oh, yeah, I'm like Catholic or Orthodox

892
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:28,760
Speaker 1: or whatever, and then they go out to the glade

893
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 1: and keep up their actual religion. And so a lot

894
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 1: of the Mari religious believers were practicing that, and then

895
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: they had a bigger problem the Bolsheviks. When the Bolsheviks

896
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: took over Russia created the USSR. They didn't like religion,

897
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: sort of a classic thing. Mosques and churches were raised

898
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: all over, and so were the sacred growths. They would

899
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 1: run through and be like, that's also a thing you're

900
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: not allowed to do. One Mari practitioner describes life under

901
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union about how they creep into the forest

902
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: to practice. Quote the police, fervent atheists, communists would come.

903
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: They kicked over our cauldrons and chased us away. And

904
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 1: that was mostly the seventies and eighties. I think a

905
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,720
Speaker 1: lot of the more intense anti religious stuff that was happening.

906
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 1: But again, this is like a thing I like to

907
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 1: have touched on peripherally but not dive deep into. Yeah,

908
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 1: I'm interested. I mean every uh, every sort of like

909
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: alley this story leads down. Is that's wild. After the

910
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 1: fall of the uss are the practice started back up again,

911
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 1: more more openly, until the other classic monster on the

912
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: world stage Putin. Yeah oh Putin Uh is not a

913
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 1: huge supporter of religious freedom. Yeah, no, weirdly um persecution

914
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: And the article I'm reading is about who that's talking about.

915
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 1: This is from about when it was like starting to

916
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 1: kick back in. I have not been able to find

917
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: the follow up about Putin changing his mind and suddenly

918
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: being very tolerant. And he actually specifically used an anti

919
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 1: extremist law that persecutes a ton of religions UM like

920
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: Muslims and Jehovah's Witnesses and the Marii Pagans, where it's

921
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 1: like if you're book is like, hey, our practices are cool.

922
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 1: We don't like churches. They're like, that's extremism because you

923
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: said this other thing. Okay, And so I don't know.

924
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think putin bait and swing. Yeah. Yeah,

925
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: And I don't know a ton about them. But they're

926
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: still around, They're still doing their thing. They consciously stand

927
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 1: in solidarity with indigenous and pagan religions the world round,

928
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 1: especially as relates to climate change. One practitioner said, they say,

929
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: we need to increase consumption to get out of the

930
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,360
Speaker 1: economic crisis, but if we all start to consume on

931
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,919
Speaker 1: the level of England or America will destroy the earth

932
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 1: within a decade. So at least on this level, I

933
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: like them, you know. I was like, yeah that, I'm

934
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: I'm on board with that. Yeah, I'm so, I'm I

935
00:55:55,680 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: wanna learn more about this. Yeah. So back to bubbya Got.

936
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 1: The thing is, she's never centered in the story. She's

937
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,439
Speaker 1: never the protagonist. She's a force of nature that people

938
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: contend with. No One ever asks how is Bobby Aga?

939
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:14,280
Speaker 1: They only ask um, you know about about the arch Crone,

940
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: the bone Mother. These are other names I found for Um.

941
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 1: The way you're describing this, it cracks me up. It

942
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,959
Speaker 1: just like sounds like you're like teeing up to pitch

943
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: a really shitty Disney Plus series about like people always

944
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 1: ask like no one ever asked how is Bobby and

945
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: in this reboot starring insert a woman here, This is

946
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 1: a this is a terrible Catherine Han mini series rating

947
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 1: to happen. I think we can do it well, I've

948
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: been This has all been my long pitch to to

949
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 1: get you as co writer. I'm in. I'm in, baby,

950
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: all right. She's almost never married in any of the stories,

951
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: which good for her, right, sometimes she has children or grandchildren.

952
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: She's clearly doing what she wants even when she has

953
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 1: children and is unmarried. So fuck yeah. Um. There's one

954
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 1: guy she sometimes represented as hooking up with another pagan

955
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: fear of the other guy. And his name is Coche

956
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: the Deathless, and he's kind of cool because his name

957
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: is I mean, it's a cool name. I mean, I

958
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: was like, I'm i I'm I'm into the name. What

959
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: does deal? Well, Jamie, I'm glad you asked. He's a

960
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: weird and more immortal wizard warrior guy who can't die

961
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 1: because he hides his soul and objects like in a

962
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: needle and an egg and a duck and a hair

963
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 1: and a chest buried on a far island. All right, well,

964
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: none of this is disqualifying to me, so continue. He's

965
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: got a ton of magical items, and he has a

966
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: super fast magical horse. In one story, he gets this

967
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: horse from Bobby at Goa. And sometimes the horse is

968
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 1: three legs, sometimes a seven legs, sometimes has the normal

969
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: boring amount of legs. And this guy is probably or

970
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: at least has been conjectured in a way that I

971
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: find convincing enough to make this in action, because it's entertaining.

972
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 1: He might have been an actual guy. Uh. There was

973
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: a twelfth century pagan Cohn of the of the Kuman

974
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: people named Khan con Check, who maybe let us he

975
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: had the hardest time finding this part out. I'm like,

976
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: maybe he led a slave uprising. I'm not sure. Um,

977
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 1: I don't feel confident about that. But he also is

978
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: conjectured to have like lived over a hundred years old,

979
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: unless maybe his kid was using his name too. But

980
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: basically he was the immortal because Um, he lived over

981
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: he like saw six generations of people, and so everyone's

982
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:34,919
Speaker 1: like that guy is never gonna fucking die. He keeps

983
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: sucking conquering everything because everyone lived six years back. Yeah, exactly.

984
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: And he wore an ombulet of protection that was an

985
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: arrow head inside of an egg shape, and so that's

986
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: probably where you get the like needle in the egg

987
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: and the dock and the goose and the hole in

988
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: the bottom of the sea. There's a hole. There's a hole.

989
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: There's a hole in the bottom of the sea. I

990
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 1: was like, keep going, keep And since he was a

991
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: successful battle guy, he was a pagan, he became a batty, right.

992
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: I mean most battle guys are batties to be to

993
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: be real that what they do is run around hit

994
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: people with swords, which is like not usually a polite

995
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: thing to do. It's not usually smiled upon in polite society. Um.

996
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 1: But because him and Bobby and God were both baddies,

997
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: people like to ship them together and sometimes they got

998
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: together in stories and that's so God. I love when

999
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, folk like folk tales and fan fiction,

1000
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: are they live in the same neighborhood. And it was

1001
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: we're just like, uh, they're both pretty bad. What if

1002
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 1: they fucked totally? Totally? People have been horny for so long.

1003
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: And you know that's my controversial statement. Since he hid

1004
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 1: his soul and other objects, we could call this book

1005
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: which for lich swish. Yeah, thanks, um And and that's

1006
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: what I've got about Bobby A gum cool. I love

1007
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: Bob the as I was, Um I was. I googled,

1008
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 1: I hit Google images bravely to see, like what different

1009
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: interpretations of her look like, and it is like, well,

1010
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we talked about this in the

1011
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: last episode, but all of the kind of cartoon like

1012
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 1: anti an't I any woman who isn't like aggressively Western

1013
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: beauty standards. You've got the cartoon anti semitism, and you

1014
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 1: also have Bobby Agawa was an antagonist in a Miyazaki

1015
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: movie which I didn't realize. I haven't seen it. Have

1016
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 1: you seen it? Which movie is it in? Um? It's

1017
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 1: when I haven't seen. Sorry, it's um the main antagonist

1018
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: and Mr Dough and the Egg Princess. She brings the

1019
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: Egg Princess to life. Her home is the Castle of

1020
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 1: the Dark Forest. Seems like a loose interpretation, but I

1021
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: think this is a short film, but I wanna I

1022
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: want to go back and watch it now to see

1023
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 1: how Miyazaki interpreted. But she was still a cannibal okay okay.

1024
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: And and also, um, if you're familiar with the Miyazaki

1025
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: character you Baba from Spirit in a way which I

1026
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 1: have seen, I guess that Bobby Yaga has you Baba

1027
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: energy as well. I was like, oh, I want to

1028
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 1: see more Bobby Yaga. Seems like there should be more

1029
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 1: modern interpretations of She's cool. I know there's a um.

1030
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: I watched a Lost Girl episode, um, Bobby Aga in

1031
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 1: preparation for this. I've never actually seen Lost Girl, and

1032
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 1: my friend was like, what the fun and then it

1033
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: was and then described it as in the genre of

1034
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: entertainment that is people who fight demons and quip. Oh see,

1035
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: that's what I like. That that can be you You

1036
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: got to be in the right mood, but that can

1037
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 1: be a good genre. I have written to novellas that

1038
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: are people who fight demons and quips, So I like,

1039
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm into it. Yeah, you're damn good at it, thank you,

1040
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 1: thank you. M Yeah. No. And there is the Japanese analogue.

1041
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: I didn't get into it more. There's like um, comparisons

1042
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 1: that made and to two cultures especially nearby like Japan

1043
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 1: and Siberia, and I want to know more about how

1044
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 1: all of that traces around. Um. But that is also

1045
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 1: the stuff that people get doctorates in. I'm a lowly

1046
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 1: the equivalent of the the guy who writes the like

1047
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: I'll write down your legal structure and write erotic fan

1048
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 1: fick about a maid. Um. Yeah, I think that that

1049
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: is a beautiful place to be. That is a culturally

1050
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 1: significant and impactful place to be. Thanks, well, this has

1051
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 1: been so fascinating. Yeah. Uh, if people want to hear

1052
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: you occupy that cultural space, how can they do so? Yes, Uh,

1053
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 1: you can do all sorts of stuff. I was because

1054
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,439
Speaker 1: we're talking about Baba, I would recommend watching a show

1055
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: called Teenage Euthanasia, in which there is a character named

1056
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 1: Baba written on the show for a couple of years.

1057
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: It's streaming on HBO Max. It's a really fun show, um,

1058
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 1: and Baba is also kind of a mystical, mysterious figure. Um.

1059
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: You can also preorder my book Raw Dog, which is

1060
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: about hot dogs, which Baba you got famously loves, and

1061
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: you can listen to any of my podcasts about extremely

1062
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: specific topic on cool Zone Media, I ever heard of it, Sophie.

1063
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: Anything you want to plug, just follow up closon media

1064
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter for all the all the things,

1065
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 1: um and then and then and then Margaret, Robert Evans

1066
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 1: and myself will be doing a special live stream I

1067
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 1: believe on December eighth. More details to come, um, but

1068
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: it's going to be a good time. And if you

1069
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: want to read my Fight Demons and Quip book, uh,

1070
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 1: the first one is called The Lamb Will Slaughter the

1071
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 1: Lion and the second one is called the Barrel Will

1072
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: Send what it May. And yes, I realized I named

1073
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: my books things that no one remembers. But the Lamb

1074
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 1: will Slaughter the Lion or just like Margaret Killjoy books

1075
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: will probably do that for you as a blue cover,

1076
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: the cool cover. And you can hear us next week

1077
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 1: when we talk about more things. Hi, Hi, Hi, cool people.

1078
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: Who did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

1079
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 1: But more podcasts and cool Zone Media. Visit our website

1080
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com or check us out on

1081
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you

1082
01:04:55,080 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Zo