WEBVTT - Nicolai Tangen 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:05.600 The largest sovereign wealth fund in the world is the 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:09.520 Sovereign Wealth Fund of Norway. It's overseen by Nikolai Tangent, 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.760 a former Norwegian hedge fund manager who now has a 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:15.520 chance to oversee the largest sovereign wealth fund in the 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.279 world by far. I had a chance in Davos to 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.799 sit down with Tangent to ask him what it's like 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:24.000 to be responsible for a fund that large. Tell us 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:28.160 what norgous investment management really does and what your job is. 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.200 Well, the job is to run the Norwegian someone Wealth 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:35.720 Fund and it has many facets. Of course, one is 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.200 to lead the investment activity. It is also to develop 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:44.440 the organization. There is a quite a comprehensive kind of 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:48.760 framework around. It's working with the board, the Ministry, the 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:52.960 supervisory board. There is a Council of Ethics which keeps 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.760 us out of ethical investments and so on. So a 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:56.960 lot of things involved in the world. 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.000 So every sovereign wealth fund has somebody running it, presumably, 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.720 but virtually no other sovereign wealth on that I'm aware of, 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:06.720 as somebody who was a superstar private sector investor, a 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.600 member of the Giving Pledge, and somebody who's made a 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:12.399 lot of money in the private sector. How did you 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:14.720 come to do this job and leave your job running 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:16.160 a very successful hedge fund. 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.480 Yeah, that's interesting. So I had been running this company 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:23.240 called Ako Capital for fifteen years and I thought, you know, 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.319 what kind of the learning is plateauing, and I need 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:27.960 to move on in life and do some other things. 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.040 So I actually was starting to apply to go back 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:35.360 to university and then this job came up, and I thought, wow, 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:41.480 it combines as management, it combines you know, developing an organization, 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:43.600 and also to do something good for the country. So 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:44.440 he was just perfect. 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.039 So where did Norway get all of this money? I 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:49.680 mean one point seven trillion dollars is a lot of money. 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:51.360 Where did you get all this money? 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:57.520 Well, you know, we'd been drilling on the Norwegian shelf 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.440 for a long time and and actually this was in 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:03.720 sixty nine in the in the autumn, like a cold 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.200 day like today, and they were they were on the 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:10.160 last well. And this was Phillips operating a platform called 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.880 Ocean Viking. And then two o'clock in the morning, this 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.679 platform chief was told to wake up, you know, the 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.600 guy in charge, and he's just like, hey, why do 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:22.720 you wake me up? At two in the morning. It 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:24.880 was just like you know what, we found some white 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:27.799 and it was the biggest fine the world had ever 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.320 seen off shore. And then this was announced in the 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.280 Norwegian population on the day before Christmas Eve sixty nine, 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:35.800 and so that's that's where it started. 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.840 So if Leif Erickson had not gone to North America 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:41.760 and just stayed in Norway, it would have been better 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:43.760 for Norway, right, because he could have discovered the oil 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:45.440 there and not have gone to look for riches in 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:46.080 North America. 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:47.120 Could be KULDB. 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:52.080 So let's talk about the current investment environment. As we 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.680 talked today, President Trump has been inaugurated in the United States. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:00.680 Are you worried about some of the America first policies 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:02.840 that he has said he's going to pursue, or as 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:04.960 in a global investment manager, doesn't really make a. 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.799 Difference to you, Well, it's a complex question because we 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.400 are a global investor, right. So if we then first 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:16.120 disregard all types of policies which can impact society and 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.200 just look at it from a pure financial point of view, 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.520 I think in the short term it'd be really good 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:26.359 for our companies in America. There'd be less regulation, there'll 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:31.160 be more more growth, so that's positive. Now, of course, 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.560 if there are a lots of tariffs or European companies 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:35.840 will be hit by it, so that'd be negative. And 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.160 then of course also there is a big question whether 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:40.360 the policies will be information area, which would be bad 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.320 news in the longer term. 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:47.360 So let's talk for a moment about enorgious investment management. 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.520 When was it actually set up? That oil was discovered 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.600 in what nineteen sixty nine? All right, so when was 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:55.120 this organization set up? 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:58.600 It was set up in ninety six and the first 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.640 deposit there was like two billion in Norwegian growner. It's 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:05.560 grown to twenty thousand billion, so good growth. 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.440 So now the money that comes in from the oil 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.840 and you invested, does that money go to every citizen 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.120 in Norway every year or does it just stay in 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.479 the central reserve for the use of the government. 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:18.440 Well, I would say that a couple of clever things 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.680 that the politicians did at the time. They also established 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.320 what is called the spending rule, so you can only 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:26.840 spend three percent of the fund every year, and three 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:30.479 percent of the fund goes into the budget. Now the 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:32.800 fund is now so large that it accounts for twenty 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.960 five percent or between twenty and twenty five percent of 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.599 the state budget. But I think it's very good to 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:39.200 have that rule in. 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.720 Place, right, So twenty five percent of a government's budget 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:43.200 comes from what you do every year. 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:45.760 Yeah, and my seven hundred colleagues. 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.200 How many people actually work for you? Yeah? 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.880 Well, so we got roughly seven hundred we have. We 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.520 got one hundred in New York and fourteen London, we 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.359 got fourteen Singapore and the rest would be in Oslo. 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.440 So the people pay an enormous amount of attention to 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.000 your investment success. Does everybody in Norway look every day 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.520 in the newspapers and see how you're doing, because that 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.039 will affect Norway's government. 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.360 Well, not only every day, we have it on a website. 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.240 We have a ticker which shows the real value of 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.200 the fund at all times, and it's updated thirteen times 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:16.760 every second. 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:22.080 So that's a lot of pressure every hour on people 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:23.440 attention to what you're doing. 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:24.080 Absolutely. 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.960 So your job, though, is to oversee several hundred people 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.400 making investment decisions. Do they come to you if it's 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:32.240 a really big investment decision and say we're going to 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:34.840 put one hundred million dollars in something, or is it 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.839 you're just doing strategic things and you're not making individual 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:38.720 investment decisions. 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.040 Well, it's since it's such a large funt, you need 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.719 to be pretty index there in what you're doing. And 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.479 we have a very good investment mandate which we get 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.039 from the Ministry of Finance, and then we follow that 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:54.200 and then we have decentralized the various investment mandates within 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:54.560 the firm. 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.560 So do people in Norway or the government criticize you 0:05:57.600 --> 0:05:59.760 saying you bought too much apple stock, or you didn't 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:01.760 buy enough apple stock, or you don't get those kind 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:03.119 of criticisms. 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:05.760 That's exactly right. So we always make mistakes, and that's 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.160 always in the papers because either either you have too 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.360 much or you have too little, or you know, when 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.400 you own a bit of nine thousand companies across the world, 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.200 there is always something going wrong somewhere and we always 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.160 own it, and so we are always criticizing. 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.240 So today, if I was looking for some good investment ideas, 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.479 Let's suppose somebody's watching and say, what is the largest 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.960 sovereign wealth fund in the world, thinking is a good idea? 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:31.400 What would you say A couple of good ideas? 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.240 No, I think if you're a long term investlerg we 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:37.960 are you want to be widely diversified across as a classes, 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:42.159 across geographies. It's very very tough to do this tactical 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.240 asset education. I think that's nearly impossible. The best thing 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.240 to do is always to do the opposite of everybody else. 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.120 And what would that be today? Well, if you were 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:51.560 to do the opposite of everybody else, you'd be to 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:55.679 sell the US tech stocks, you know, buy China, sell 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.480 private credit, you know, just buy stuff which is out 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.040 of fashion. But it's very, very tough to do because 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.280 if you are contrariant and you are different from your 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:06.200 benchmarks and so on, there will be periods where you 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.159 end up performing and everybody is going to question your sanity. 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.239 What about artificial intelligence? Is that a good area and invest 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:12.920 in that? Oh? 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.360 It has been fantastic and we have made a lot 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:16.760 of money for the fund. 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:17.080 You know. 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:19.080 The biggest contributors so the last few years have of 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:23.280 course been the big American AI companies. And I pulled 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.960 people in ORGUS just before Christmas when I ask them 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.040 how much more efficient are you now because of the 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:31.400 new tools, and on average people thought they were fifteen 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.960 percent more efficient really good. 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.600 So in Vidio is still a good stock to buy. 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:38.080 Well that I don't know, but. 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:43.400 For sure they make good products. When you look at 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:45.960 your investment team, did they come in every week and 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.080 say here's some ideas we have and do you tell 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:50.280 them yes, no, yes, no? Or you just listen to 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:51.600 what they recommend? 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:53.440 Well, they would decide, I think, you know, in order 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.400 to really judge how they're doing, they need to be 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.280 toky accountable and you can't interfere in the investment process. 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:00.840 So I don't interfere in the investment process. 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.120 Well, as we talk today in the United States, at 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.600 least ESG and DEI seem to be in less favor 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:08.600 than they were maybe two or three years ago. Is 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.120 that the case in Norway? No, So you don't really 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:13.720 care what the US is doing in this regard. 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.960 Well, there is clearly a backlash against ESG right, but 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.520 the policies we have they are anchored in the Parliament 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:23.640 and so we have not changing. In one mind, we 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.480 think it's important with client reporting, We think diversity is 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:28.040 good and so on. 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.080 In most Scandinavian countries, and I think certainly in Norway 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.560 there's concerned about climate change and there's a lot of 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.520 interest in renewable energy, but you make your money from 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.880 non renewable energy. So is there an incongruity when you're 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:45.520 making all this money from carbon carbonized kind of chemicals 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.600 and fuels, but you really don't believe in that to 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:50.480 some extent, How do you square that? 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.680 Well, we believe in it, and we do think that 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.400 in particular, the gas that Norway produces, which is very 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.280 high proportional of the gas supply in Europe, is very 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.280 important and it continues to be a big part of 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:07.640 the energy supply and and important for security for many 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:08.440 many years to come. 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.960 Let's talk about your own background. You weren't just working 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.520 your way up in the government of nord just investment management. 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:17.760 You were very successful, as I said earlier, in the 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.040 private sector. Where were you born. 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.440 I was born in a small town in southern Norway, 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.920 Christiansand which not many people have heard about. 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:28.720 And were your parents' investment managers? 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.880 No, my mother worked in the public sector with museums 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.160 and art and my father was an entrepreneur. 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:37.440 Where did you go to school? 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.960 I started off in Norway. I studied Russian in the 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.920 Intelligence service. I went to Wharton, did business undergrad and 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.360 then I have done some degrees afterwards. I've done one 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.679 in art history and one in social psychology. 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:53.280 Is it unusual for somebody in Norway to go to 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:55.559 college at Wharton School in Philadelphia? 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.280 It's great school, but it's pretty pretty It's not so common. 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.000 So when you went to Wharton and you said you're 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.719 from Norway, to people in Wharton say where is that? 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:03.600 Or yeah, of course? 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:07.440 And did they make fun of Norway? Did they say 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.120 you were a Viking or something like that? Yeah, okay, 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:15.760 well I was okay, okay. So you graduate from Wharton 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:18.400 and you get other degrees, you set up your own head. 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:19.920 I mean, the cool thing is, you know, you come 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.520 from Norway, which is like a very agilitarian society and 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.640 it's all about being very humble and so on, and 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.280 then you come to Wharton, which is just like the opposite. 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.120 It's like I remember, you know, I went to clubs 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:32.240 one day and it's just like, hey, what do you 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:34.160 guys want to do? I just want to conquer the world, 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.199 and everybody approad. I didn't say that, but somebody else said, 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:38.680 and you know, people applauded, and it was just like 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:40.200 your mindset totally different. 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.440 So you didn't find a lot of humility at Wharton, 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.560 not so much. So okay, so you graduated, didn't Did 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:48.199 you go into the private sector right away? 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.000 Yeah? I went then became an analyst with a stolkworking firm. 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.240 I went there, worked there for five years. Then I 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:57.679 joined my largest client, which was a hedge fund and 0:10:57.679 --> 0:10:59.400 one of the earliest hedge funds in Europe. 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.120 Where was it, London? When did you say I'm going 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:03.720 to set up my own hedge fund? 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:05.560 Well, so that was a bit afterwards because I had 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:07.280 worked for these hedge fund for five years and made 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:09.360 some money, and I took a break. So I did 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:13.440 it a master's in art history, but realized that wasn't 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:14.199 very good at it. 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.480 So how do you know you're not good at art history? 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.720 I mean, you don't measure it the way you do investments. 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:22.200 Wow, you get feedback from the professor that you're not 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:24.199 the brightest thing. Okay, So I thought, Hey, I'm better 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.680 at looking at stokes and paintings and so let's set 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:27.560 up these erm instead. 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.040 But you built a art collection, so you must know 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:30.920 something about art. 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.319 Yeah, but it's easier to buy art than write about art. 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:37.960 Okay. So you set up your own hedge fund eventually. Yeah, 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.679 and how big was it before you stopped it? 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:44.520 Just under twenty billion dollars, So it was one of 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:46.720 the largest funds in Europe. No, I'm really proud of 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:48.480 what we did there. We had many of the largest 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.839 endowments and universities in the world investing with us, so 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:51.839 it was a fantastic thing. 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.560 So you have twenty billion dollar hedge fund and your 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:56.560 averaging rates of return I assume that are in double 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:00.240 digit kinds of areas, right, And so when you up 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.160 this opportunity to run norgeous investment management to do, say 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:05.959 to your family, guess what, I'm not going to be 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.720 making that much money anymore and we have to live 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.600 work conservatively. Yeah, and what did they say? They were 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:13.080 happy with that? 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:18.720 Yeah, Wow, I've good enough money to buy food and shoes. 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.120 But usually hedge fund managers don't say they need to 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:23.559 have enough money to buy the food. They want to 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.280 buy airplanes and art and and other things. 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:28.640 Yeah, And I think that's a misconstrued perception of what 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.920 happens is you know, in my mind, happiness is about learning. 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.000 That's how you measure happiness is how much you have learned. 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:37.680 You know, some people say, you know, you measure success 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.480 by how many who has got the most money when 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:41.800 they die? And I just think that's totally failure. I mean, 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.040 the person's got the most money when he when he 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:47.040 or she dies, that they have they have lost. They haven't, 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:47.800 they haven't got it. 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.679 Oh, I didn't realize that. So well you were? 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:52.720 You done this? 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.679 All right? So I lot something I gotta learn. But okay, 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.080 so all right, so you set up your hedge fund. 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.280 But when you left your hedge fund, did you have 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:01.840 other people running? Is it still around? 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.720 Absolutely? So it was a fantastic thing. It's been a 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.920 great transition to the next generation. Really readied. They are 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:12.199 doing better than ever and it's just a total win win. 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.520 So but when I when I left for the for 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.240 the position in Norway, I had to to give away 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.240 my ownership stake, so I gave it to a charitable foundation. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.880 And so the stake in the hedge fund is funding 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:24.880 that charitable fundation. 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.160 So you did so well that you actually joined the 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.320 giving pledge right, which means you've got a net worth 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.719 of at least a billion dollars or so are you 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.200 the only person in Dorway that signed the giving pledge. 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.040 It is one more, one more. Okay, So when you 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.760 go to the giving pledge meetings, do you say, guess what, 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.000 I'm giving away money now? But I'm I'm really ranting 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.040 running the Norway Sovereign Wealth Fund? Or you don't. People 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:50.400 don't talk to you about what you do now? 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:51.880 No, No, they talk about that too. 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:55.440 So you ever go to reunions at Wharton and say, 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:56.800 I wasn't that. 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:58.520 I was on the board. I was on the board. 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.360 You working for some time now, and but they I 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.400 guess they asked for contributions from time to time. 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:07.200 Yeah, and okay, but all that I did, I did 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:08.200 give them a building. 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.040 But all the people in your class who are bragging 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:11.640 about how great they were and they were to conquer 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:13.640 the world, did you ever show up and say, look, 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:15.160 you're the guy who actually did it, and you didn't 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:16.079 brag about during that. 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.360 You didn't say that I never felt that I conquered 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:18.720 the world. 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.400 For five years, you've been running this fund and done 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:27.160 pretty well. Obviously, now your term is up. You have 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.200 another five year term you could get, and you're apply. 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:31.240 I applied last week. 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.320 You applied. Okay, you have to apply or you already 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:33.800 have the job. 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.920 No, it's it has to be you have to apply again. 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.480 So I updated my CV and applied. 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.600 Wow, okay, did anybody else apply or yeah? 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.400 I think so. I mean, I don't know, it's I 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.440 don't know. I mean, I'm when it comes to this, 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.400 I'm very very humble. I if they find anybody else 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.680 who's better at doing that job, he or she should 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.040 get that job. Right, it's a very important position in 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:57.800 the country. And so I have applied. I hope I 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.240 will get an extension. So if not, I to do 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:00.720 something else. 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.520 So you're willing to do another five years, and your 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.160 compensation as the person running it is modest, I assume 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:09.400 compared to what you used to make. 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.920 Yeah, it's a well paid job, but it's, of course 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:15.320 it's a public sexual job. 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:20.640 Any thought about going into politics and running for government positions, 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.400 prime minister or something like that. No, you don't want 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.160 to go into that. No interest in that. And what 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.240 about any thing after you're finished. That's suppose you do 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.600 another five years and for ten years of this you 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:32.880 probably would say that's enough. 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:35.080 Well, I'm going to spend the rest of my life, 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.120 hopefully doing good things. You know, I'd love to go 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.320 back to university at some stage you do no degree, 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:43.400 learn some more things. 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:45.840 Art history, but you're not that good at that, so 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.400 you would do something else. You think, okay, but you 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.400 have a big art collection. Still in what area do 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:51.080 you collect art? 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.840 We have the biggest collection of Nordic Modernist art and 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.760 we've given that to a museum which opened last year. 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.920 New York Times recently said he was one of the 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.680 fifty most important places to go in twenty twenty five. 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:05.880 So you will have to go, of course. 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.280 So if somebody is watching this and they've never been 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.440 to Norway, what would you say about what is great 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:16.280 about Norway that would deserve their visiting? What is Washington? 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:17.640 Can you see in Norway? Well? 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.240 The nature, the nature is unrivaled. I mean, it's just 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.520 like Switzerland with a little of c around it, right, 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.880 and it's absolutely beautiful. You really close to the fjord, 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.120 you close the mountains. He's good for skiing, he's good 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.080 for hiking. It's perfect and not too many people, so 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:33.920 it's not so crowded. 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.760 How many total people are there in five million? Five million? 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.840 So when Alfred Nobel was awarding his developing his Nobel prizes. 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.880 He had the prizes being given by people in Sweden, 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:49.400 the Swedish academies, but he didn't think the Swedes were peaceful, 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.600 loving people, so he said, the Peace Prize is given 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:57.080 by people in Norway, So the Norway is very peaceful. Yes, 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.320 And you have no interest in getting into international diplomatic 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.720 things or like something like that. No, okay, And your 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.280 children are they interested in investing? No? 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.399 Thankfully, I mean thank God for that, because I think 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.640 in my mind, you just don't want to follow your parents. 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.760 You want to create your own destiny. You wanna you 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.560 don't want to be measured against the success of your parents. 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:22.040 You know. 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.119 I don't really believe in the inheritance. I think to 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.320 inherent a little money, it's not a good thing. If 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.680 you are successful, it's just because you inherited a little money, 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:31.920 and if you fail, you are a total failure because 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:33.520 you started with a lot of money and you didn't 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.480 manage to do it. So I just think it's so, 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:37.480 you know, let them do what they want. 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:42.199 So today, are you worried about your borders because of 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.640 what's going on in Russia and Ukraine? Is that something 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.800 you worry about in terms of the impact of Russia 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:50.160 Ukraine on your investment appetite for things like that. 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:54.639 I'm not worried about Russia invading Norway anytime soon. We 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.959 are a member of it of NATO, we do border 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.800 to Russia. But now since Finland and Sweat join NATO, 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:02.240 we feel stronger than before. 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.040 So today, what would you say your biggest investment concerns are? 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.960 You're running one point seven trillion dollar fun for the 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.520 average person to not manage that much money, what should 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:13.280