1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: The largest sovereign wealth fund in the world is the 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: Sovereign Wealth Fund of Norway. It's overseen by Nikolai Tangent, 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: a former Norwegian hedge fund manager who now has a 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: chance to oversee the largest sovereign wealth fund in the 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: world by far. I had a chance in Davos to 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: sit down with Tangent to ask him what it's like 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: to be responsible for a fund that large. Tell us 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: what norgous investment management really does and what your job is. 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: Well, the job is to run the Norwegian someone Wealth 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: Fund and it has many facets. Of course, one is 11 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 2: to lead the investment activity. It is also to develop 12 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: the organization. There is a quite a comprehensive kind of 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: framework around. It's working with the board, the Ministry, the 14 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: supervisory board. There is a Council of Ethics which keeps 15 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 2: us out of ethical investments and so on. So a 16 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: lot of things involved in the world. 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: So every sovereign wealth fund has somebody running it, presumably, 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: but virtually no other sovereign wealth on that I'm aware of, 19 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: as somebody who was a superstar private sector investor, a 20 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: member of the Giving Pledge, and somebody who's made a 21 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: lot of money in the private sector. How did you 22 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: come to do this job and leave your job running 23 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: a very successful hedge fund. 24 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. So I had been running this company 25 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: called Ako Capital for fifteen years and I thought, you know, 26 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 2: what kind of the learning is plateauing, and I need 27 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 2: to move on in life and do some other things. 28 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 2: So I actually was starting to apply to go back 29 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: to university and then this job came up, and I thought, wow, 30 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 2: it combines as management, it combines you know, developing an organization, 31 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 2: and also to do something good for the country. So 32 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: he was just perfect. 33 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: So where did Norway get all of this money? I 34 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: mean one point seven trillion dollars is a lot of money. 35 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: Where did you get all this money? 36 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: Well, you know, we'd been drilling on the Norwegian shelf 37 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: for a long time and and actually this was in 38 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: sixty nine in the in the autumn, like a cold 39 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 2: day like today, and they were they were on the 40 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: last well. And this was Phillips operating a platform called 41 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: Ocean Viking. And then two o'clock in the morning, this 42 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 2: platform chief was told to wake up, you know, the 43 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: guy in charge, and he's just like, hey, why do 44 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: you wake me up? At two in the morning. It 45 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: was just like you know what, we found some white 46 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 2: and it was the biggest fine the world had ever 47 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 2: seen off shore. And then this was announced in the 48 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: Norwegian population on the day before Christmas Eve sixty nine, 49 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: and so that's that's where it started. 50 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: So if Leif Erickson had not gone to North America 51 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: and just stayed in Norway, it would have been better 52 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: for Norway, right, because he could have discovered the oil 53 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: there and not have gone to look for riches in 54 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: North America. 55 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 2: Could be KULDB. 56 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: So let's talk about the current investment environment. As we 57 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: talked today, President Trump has been inaugurated in the United States. 58 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: Are you worried about some of the America first policies 59 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: that he has said he's going to pursue, or as 60 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: in a global investment manager, doesn't really make a. 61 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 2: Difference to you, Well, it's a complex question because we 62 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 2: are a global investor, right. So if we then first 63 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: disregard all types of policies which can impact society and 64 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: just look at it from a pure financial point of view, 65 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 2: I think in the short term it'd be really good 66 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 2: for our companies in America. There'd be less regulation, there'll 67 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: be more more growth, so that's positive. Now, of course, 68 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: if there are a lots of tariffs or European companies 69 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: will be hit by it, so that'd be negative. And 70 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: then of course also there is a big question whether 71 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: the policies will be information area, which would be bad 72 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: news in the longer term. 73 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: So let's talk for a moment about enorgious investment management. 74 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: When was it actually set up? That oil was discovered 75 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: in what nineteen sixty nine? All right, so when was 76 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: this organization set up? 77 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 2: It was set up in ninety six and the first 78 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: deposit there was like two billion in Norwegian growner. It's 79 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: grown to twenty thousand billion, so good growth. 80 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: So now the money that comes in from the oil 81 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: and you invested, does that money go to every citizen 82 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: in Norway every year or does it just stay in 83 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: the central reserve for the use of the government. 84 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: Well, I would say that a couple of clever things 85 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: that the politicians did at the time. They also established 86 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 2: what is called the spending rule, so you can only 87 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 2: spend three percent of the fund every year, and three 88 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 2: percent of the fund goes into the budget. Now the 89 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 2: fund is now so large that it accounts for twenty 90 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: five percent or between twenty and twenty five percent of 91 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 2: the state budget. But I think it's very good to 92 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: have that rule in. 93 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: Place, right, So twenty five percent of a government's budget 94 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: comes from what you do every year. 95 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and my seven hundred colleagues. 96 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: How many people actually work for you? Yeah? 97 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: Well, so we got roughly seven hundred we have. We 98 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: got one hundred in New York and fourteen London, we 99 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 2: got fourteen Singapore and the rest would be in Oslo. 100 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: So the people pay an enormous amount of attention to 101 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: your investment success. Does everybody in Norway look every day 102 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: in the newspapers and see how you're doing, because that 103 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: will affect Norway's government. 104 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 2: Well, not only every day, we have it on a website. 105 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: We have a ticker which shows the real value of 106 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 2: the fund at all times, and it's updated thirteen times 107 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: every second. 108 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: So that's a lot of pressure every hour on people 109 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: attention to what you're doing. 110 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 111 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: So your job, though, is to oversee several hundred people 112 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: making investment decisions. Do they come to you if it's 113 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: a really big investment decision and say we're going to 114 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: put one hundred million dollars in something, or is it 115 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: you're just doing strategic things and you're not making individual 116 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: investment decisions. 117 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 2: Well, it's since it's such a large funt, you need 118 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 2: to be pretty index there in what you're doing. And 119 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 2: we have a very good investment mandate which we get 120 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 2: from the Ministry of Finance, and then we follow that 121 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 2: and then we have decentralized the various investment mandates within 122 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 2: the firm. 123 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: So do people in Norway or the government criticize you 124 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: saying you bought too much apple stock, or you didn't 125 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: buy enough apple stock, or you don't get those kind 126 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,119 Speaker 1: of criticisms. 127 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. So we always make mistakes, and that's 128 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 2: always in the papers because either either you have too 129 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: much or you have too little, or you know, when 130 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: you own a bit of nine thousand companies across the world, 131 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: there is always something going wrong somewhere and we always 132 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 2: own it, and so we are always criticizing. 133 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: So today, if I was looking for some good investment ideas, 134 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: Let's suppose somebody's watching and say, what is the largest 135 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: sovereign wealth fund in the world, thinking is a good idea? 136 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: What would you say A couple of good ideas? 137 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 2: No, I think if you're a long term investlerg we 138 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: are you want to be widely diversified across as a classes, 139 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 2: across geographies. It's very very tough to do this tactical 140 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: asset education. I think that's nearly impossible. The best thing 141 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: to do is always to do the opposite of everybody else. 142 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 2: And what would that be today? Well, if you were 143 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: to do the opposite of everybody else, you'd be to 144 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,679 Speaker 2: sell the US tech stocks, you know, buy China, sell 145 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 2: private credit, you know, just buy stuff which is out 146 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 2: of fashion. But it's very, very tough to do because 147 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 2: if you are contrariant and you are different from your 148 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: benchmarks and so on, there will be periods where you 149 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 2: end up performing and everybody is going to question your sanity. 150 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,239 Speaker 1: What about artificial intelligence? Is that a good area and invest 151 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: in that? Oh? 152 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 2: It has been fantastic and we have made a lot 153 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: of money for the fund. 154 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: You know. 155 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: The biggest contributors so the last few years have of 156 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: course been the big American AI companies. And I pulled 157 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: people in ORGUS just before Christmas when I ask them 158 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: how much more efficient are you now because of the 159 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 2: new tools, and on average people thought they were fifteen 160 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: percent more efficient really good. 161 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: So in Vidio is still a good stock to buy. 162 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: Well that I don't know, but. 163 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: For sure they make good products. When you look at 164 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: your investment team, did they come in every week and 165 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: say here's some ideas we have and do you tell 166 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: them yes, no, yes, no? Or you just listen to 167 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: what they recommend? 168 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: Well, they would decide, I think, you know, in order 169 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: to really judge how they're doing, they need to be 170 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: toky accountable and you can't interfere in the investment process. 171 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: So I don't interfere in the investment process. 172 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: Well, as we talk today in the United States, at 173 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: least ESG and DEI seem to be in less favor 174 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: than they were maybe two or three years ago. Is 175 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: that the case in Norway? No, So you don't really 176 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: care what the US is doing in this regard. 177 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: Well, there is clearly a backlash against ESG right, but 178 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: the policies we have they are anchored in the Parliament 179 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 2: and so we have not changing. In one mind, we 180 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: think it's important with client reporting, We think diversity is 181 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: good and so on. 182 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: In most Scandinavian countries, and I think certainly in Norway 183 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: there's concerned about climate change and there's a lot of 184 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: interest in renewable energy, but you make your money from 185 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: non renewable energy. So is there an incongruity when you're 186 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: making all this money from carbon carbonized kind of chemicals 187 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: and fuels, but you really don't believe in that to 188 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: some extent, How do you square that? 189 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 2: Well, we believe in it, and we do think that 190 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: in particular, the gas that Norway produces, which is very 191 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: high proportional of the gas supply in Europe, is very 192 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: important and it continues to be a big part of 193 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: the energy supply and and important for security for many 194 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 2: many years to come. 195 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: Let's talk about your own background. You weren't just working 196 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: your way up in the government of nord just investment management. 197 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: You were very successful, as I said earlier, in the 198 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: private sector. Where were you born. 199 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 2: I was born in a small town in southern Norway, 200 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: Christiansand which not many people have heard about. 201 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: And were your parents' investment managers? 202 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 2: No, my mother worked in the public sector with museums 203 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: and art and my father was an entrepreneur. 204 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: Where did you go to school? 205 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 2: I started off in Norway. I studied Russian in the 206 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: Intelligence service. I went to Wharton, did business undergrad and 207 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 2: then I have done some degrees afterwards. I've done one 208 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 2: in art history and one in social psychology. 209 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: Is it unusual for somebody in Norway to go to 210 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 1: college at Wharton School in Philadelphia? 211 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 2: It's great school, but it's pretty pretty It's not so common. 212 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: So when you went to Wharton and you said you're 213 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,719 Speaker 1: from Norway, to people in Wharton say where is that? 214 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 2: Or yeah, of course? 215 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: And did they make fun of Norway? Did they say 216 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: you were a Viking or something like that? Yeah, okay, 217 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: well I was okay, okay. So you graduate from Wharton 218 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: and you get other degrees, you set up your own head. 219 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 2: I mean, the cool thing is, you know, you come 220 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 2: from Norway, which is like a very agilitarian society and 221 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: it's all about being very humble and so on, and 222 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: then you come to Wharton, which is just like the opposite. 223 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: It's like I remember, you know, I went to clubs 224 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: one day and it's just like, hey, what do you 225 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: guys want to do? I just want to conquer the world, 226 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 2: and everybody approad. I didn't say that, but somebody else said, 227 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 2: and you know, people applauded, and it was just like 228 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 2: your mindset totally different. 229 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: So you didn't find a lot of humility at Wharton, 230 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: not so much. So okay, so you graduated, didn't Did 231 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 1: you go into the private sector right away? 232 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? I went then became an analyst with a stolkworking firm. 233 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: I went there, worked there for five years. Then I 234 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 2: joined my largest client, which was a hedge fund and 235 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: one of the earliest hedge funds in Europe. 236 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: Where was it, London? When did you say I'm going 237 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: to set up my own hedge fund? 238 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: Well, so that was a bit afterwards because I had 239 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: worked for these hedge fund for five years and made 240 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: some money, and I took a break. So I did 241 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 2: it a master's in art history, but realized that wasn't 242 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 2: very good at it. 243 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: So how do you know you're not good at art history? 244 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you don't measure it the way you do investments. 245 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 2: Wow, you get feedback from the professor that you're not 246 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 2: the brightest thing. Okay, So I thought, Hey, I'm better 247 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 2: at looking at stokes and paintings and so let's set 248 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 2: up these erm instead. 249 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: But you built a art collection, so you must know 250 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: something about art. 251 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's easier to buy art than write about art. 252 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: Okay. So you set up your own hedge fund eventually. Yeah, 253 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: and how big was it before you stopped it? 254 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 2: Just under twenty billion dollars, So it was one of 255 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 2: the largest funds in Europe. No, I'm really proud of 256 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: what we did there. We had many of the largest 257 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:50,839 Speaker 2: endowments and universities in the world investing with us, so 258 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 2: it was a fantastic thing. 259 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: So you have twenty billion dollar hedge fund and your 260 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: averaging rates of return I assume that are in double 261 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: digit kinds of areas, right, And so when you up 262 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: this opportunity to run norgeous investment management to do, say 263 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:05,959 Speaker 1: to your family, guess what, I'm not going to be 264 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: making that much money anymore and we have to live 265 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: work conservatively. Yeah, and what did they say? They were 266 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: happy with that? 267 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, Wow, I've good enough money to buy food and shoes. 268 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: But usually hedge fund managers don't say they need to 269 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: have enough money to buy the food. They want to 270 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: buy airplanes and art and and other things. 271 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's a misconstrued perception of what 272 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 2: happens is you know, in my mind, happiness is about learning. 273 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 2: That's how you measure happiness is how much you have learned. 274 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 2: You know, some people say, you know, you measure success 275 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: by how many who has got the most money when 276 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 2: they die? And I just think that's totally failure. I mean, 277 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 2: the person's got the most money when he when he 278 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 2: or she dies, that they have they have lost. They haven't, 279 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: they haven't got it. 280 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't realize that. So well you were? 281 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: You done this? 282 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: All right? So I lot something I gotta learn. But okay, 283 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: so all right, so you set up your hedge fund. 284 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: But when you left your hedge fund, did you have 285 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: other people running? Is it still around? 286 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: Absolutely? So it was a fantastic thing. It's been a 287 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: great transition to the next generation. Really readied. They are 288 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 2: doing better than ever and it's just a total win win. 289 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 2: So but when I when I left for the for 290 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 2: the position in Norway, I had to to give away 291 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 2: my ownership stake, so I gave it to a charitable foundation. 292 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: And so the stake in the hedge fund is funding 293 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: that charitable fundation. 294 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: So you did so well that you actually joined the 295 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: giving pledge right, which means you've got a net worth 296 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: of at least a billion dollars or so are you 297 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: the only person in Dorway that signed the giving pledge. 298 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: It is one more, one more. Okay, So when you 299 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: go to the giving pledge meetings, do you say, guess what, 300 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: I'm giving away money now? But I'm I'm really ranting 301 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: running the Norway Sovereign Wealth Fund? Or you don't. People 302 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: don't talk to you about what you do now? 303 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 2: No, No, they talk about that too. 304 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: So you ever go to reunions at Wharton and say, 305 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: I wasn't that. 306 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: I was on the board. I was on the board. 307 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: You working for some time now, and but they I 308 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: guess they asked for contributions from time to time. 309 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and okay, but all that I did, I did 310 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 2: give them a building. 311 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: But all the people in your class who are bragging 312 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: about how great they were and they were to conquer 313 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: the world, did you ever show up and say, look, 314 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: you're the guy who actually did it, and you didn't 315 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 1: brag about during that. 316 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 2: You didn't say that I never felt that I conquered 317 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: the world. 318 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: For five years, you've been running this fund and done 319 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: pretty well. Obviously, now your term is up. You have 320 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: another five year term you could get, and you're apply. 321 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 2: I applied last week. 322 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: You applied. Okay, you have to apply or you already 323 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: have the job. 324 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: No, it's it has to be you have to apply again. 325 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: So I updated my CV and applied. 326 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: Wow, okay, did anybody else apply or yeah? 327 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: I think so. I mean, I don't know, it's I 328 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 2: don't know. I mean, I'm when it comes to this, 329 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: I'm very very humble. I if they find anybody else 330 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 2: who's better at doing that job, he or she should 331 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: get that job. Right, it's a very important position in 332 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 2: the country. And so I have applied. I hope I 333 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 2: will get an extension. So if not, I to do 334 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 2: something else. 335 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: So you're willing to do another five years, and your 336 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: compensation as the person running it is modest, I assume 337 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: compared to what you used to make. 338 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a well paid job, but it's, of course 339 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: it's a public sexual job. 340 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: Any thought about going into politics and running for government positions, 341 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: prime minister or something like that. No, you don't want 342 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: to go into that. No interest in that. And what 343 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: about any thing after you're finished. That's suppose you do 344 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: another five years and for ten years of this you 345 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: probably would say that's enough. 346 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to spend the rest of my life, 347 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 2: hopefully doing good things. You know, I'd love to go 348 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 2: back to university at some stage you do no degree, 349 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 2: learn some more things. 350 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: Art history, but you're not that good at that, so 351 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: you would do something else. You think, okay, but you 352 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: have a big art collection. Still in what area do 353 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: you collect art? 354 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: We have the biggest collection of Nordic Modernist art and 355 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 2: we've given that to a museum which opened last year. 356 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 2: New York Times recently said he was one of the 357 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 2: fifty most important places to go in twenty twenty five. 358 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 2: So you will have to go, of course. 359 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: So if somebody is watching this and they've never been 360 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: to Norway, what would you say about what is great 361 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: about Norway that would deserve their visiting? What is Washington? 362 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: Can you see in Norway? Well? 363 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 2: The nature, the nature is unrivaled. I mean, it's just 364 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 2: like Switzerland with a little of c around it, right, 365 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: and it's absolutely beautiful. You really close to the fjord, 366 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 2: you close the mountains. He's good for skiing, he's good 367 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 2: for hiking. It's perfect and not too many people, so 368 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 2: it's not so crowded. 369 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: How many total people are there in five million? Five million? 370 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: So when Alfred Nobel was awarding his developing his Nobel prizes. 371 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: He had the prizes being given by people in Sweden, 372 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: the Swedish academies, but he didn't think the Swedes were peaceful, 373 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: loving people, so he said, the Peace Prize is given 374 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: by people in Norway, So the Norway is very peaceful. Yes, 375 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: And you have no interest in getting into international diplomatic 376 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: things or like something like that. No, okay, And your 377 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: children are they interested in investing? No? 378 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 2: Thankfully, I mean thank God for that, because I think 379 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 2: in my mind, you just don't want to follow your parents. 380 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: You want to create your own destiny. You wanna you 381 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 2: don't want to be measured against the success of your parents. 382 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: You know. 383 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 2: I don't really believe in the inheritance. I think to 384 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: inherent a little money, it's not a good thing. If 385 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 2: you are successful, it's just because you inherited a little money, 386 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 2: and if you fail, you are a total failure because 387 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 2: you started with a lot of money and you didn't 388 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 2: manage to do it. So I just think it's so, 389 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 2: you know, let them do what they want. 390 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 1: So today, are you worried about your borders because of 391 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: what's going on in Russia and Ukraine? Is that something 392 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: you worry about in terms of the impact of Russia 393 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: Ukraine on your investment appetite for things like that. 394 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 2: I'm not worried about Russia invading Norway anytime soon. We 395 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,959 Speaker 2: are a member of it of NATO, we do border 396 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 2: to Russia. But now since Finland and Sweat join NATO, 397 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: we feel stronger than before. 398 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: So today, what would you say your biggest investment concerns are? 399 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: You're running one point seven trillion dollar fun for the 400 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: average person to not manage that much money, what should 401 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: they be worrying about? And what are you worrying about now? 402 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 2: I think you know, I think you've got two things. 403 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 2: One you have the known and knowns right so and 404 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 2: there at the top of my list would be two things. 405 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 2: One is inflation, because I think there is an argument 406 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: in a tate tight labor market when you potentially decline 407 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 2: the supply or to reduce the supply of labor in 408 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 2: the US you put on tariffs. These things can be 409 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 2: inflation area. And there could be a moment where, given 410 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 2: the high level of government debt, that the investors certainly decide, 411 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 2: you know what, we want a much higher coupon to 412 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 2: lend to, you know, to governments. And so you could 413 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 2: see a step up in interest rates, which could be 414 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 2: negative financial markets. Then of course all the AI related stocks. 415 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 2: The epicenter here is is Taiwan, so you need to 416 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 2: watch that. The thing that really scarce us when it 417 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 2: happens is the expected, you know, whether it be a 418 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 2: meltdown of nuclear reactors in Japan or COVID or financial crisis. 419 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 2: Is the stuff you cannot model, which really de raise markets. 420 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 2: And they come about every so often, and there will 421 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 2: be another one coming up. 422 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: So I suppose I'm one of the people interviewing you 423 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: for your real application to at this job for the 424 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: next five years. What would you say is the reason 425 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: that you deserve the job. You've done pretty well, or 426 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: you like the job, or people are happy, or your 427 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: rate of return has been very good. What would you 428 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: say is the reason you should get this job? 429 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 2: The organization has done well, is a real teamwork. We 430 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 2: built a really great team. You know, we have done 431 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 2: a lot of great things. Were now the most transparent 432 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 2: fund in the world. We've done a lot of things 433 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 2: like that, right, And there's always lower risk to take 434 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 2: the incumbent than changing. But as I said, you know, 435 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 2: these are just pros and cons, and well other people 436 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 2: out there who are really really excellent. 437 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: Right, So what do you do for outside activities? Are 438 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: you a skier or you're some other kind of out well. 439 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 2: I spend a lot of time in nature. I walk 440 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 2: in the forest, I do cross country skiing. I pick 441 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 2: mushrooms in the autumn. Do what mushrooms? Not the magic run? 442 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: What do you pick them? Or you grow them or what? Oh? 443 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: You walk around in the forest and you pick wild 444 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 2: mushrooms and you go home and you cook them and 445 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 2: you make you know, like chanto el spaghetti. 446 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: Wow, that's an unusual I have. Wow. Okay, So generally 447 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: you just like me as a very happy person, and 448 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: I generally don't find that many happy people in the 449 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: investment world are always worried about something else. But you're 450 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: pretty happy. So how did you get to be so happy? 451 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,479 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, you have to figure out what 452 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,719 Speaker 2: is it that makes you happy? And I do think 453 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 2: people mistake that quite often. You know, they just tried 454 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 2: to make more money to buy more things. That's not 455 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 2: where true happiness comes from. It comes from spending time 456 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 2: with friends and family and learning and in ternsally and 457 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 2: you know, as you know, I also do a podcast, 458 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 2: and I learned a lot through that podcast. 459 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: If you're giving advice to somebody that's watching this about 460 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: how to be a good investment manager, what is the 461 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: single most important piece of investment advice you could give somebody? Learn? 462 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 2: Learn, Learn, And the combination of being stubborn and agile. 463 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 2: You know, you have to stick with your guns, you 464 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 2: have to believe in what you do. You have to 465 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,479 Speaker 2: be able to contrariant. But when things change, you have 466 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 2: to change your mind. And that's the variest combination in 467 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 2: investment management. 468 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: So you think humility is better than arrogance and a 469 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: good investor, well. 470 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 2: You need to be confidently confident. Humility is the magic. 471 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: Have you ever met Warren Buffett? No? Really, and no 472 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: interest in meeting if he's called advice, But he hasn't 473 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: called you for ideas or anything like that. 474 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 2: No, no, but he I haven't met him. Well I briefly. 475 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 2: I met him briefly. 476 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: Okay, So is there one person that is a role 477 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: model for you? If it's not Warren Buffett, maybe it 478 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: is even though you haven't met him. Is there anybody 479 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: you would say is somebody you have as a role 480 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: model in the investment area? 481 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's difficult to not mention Bill Gates 482 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 2: as a role model if you are a philanthropist, because 483 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 2: you make a lot of money and then you are 484 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 2: very organized and structured in the way you give it away. 485 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 2: I think that's really impressive. 486 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You 487 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or 488 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: wherever you listen.