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Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal hull. For me, I'm a man,

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Speaker 1: I'm forty.

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Speaker 2: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to

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Speaker 2: be happy, you want to be happy for a day.

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Speaker 2: Edith Steak is that woo woof?

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Speaker 1: And them and Ty.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the solid verbal boys, Girls, Monnyme's Ty

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Speaker 3: hilde Brandt that fine gentleman over there as always the

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Speaker 3: incomparable Dan Rubinstein is always the show here, driven by Geico, Sir,

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Speaker 3: how are you this fine day?

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Speaker 2: Couldn't be better? Couldn't be better? Took a shower for

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Speaker 2: the first time in a couple of days. The sun

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Speaker 2: is out. I'm leaving for the West Coast tomorrow as

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Speaker 2: we record.

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Speaker 1: There, There, it is, There, it is.

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Speaker 2: I found some pairs of shorts I haven't worn in

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Speaker 2: a long time. I hope that I can find shorts

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Speaker 2: for my older son, who I'm taking with me. I

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Speaker 2: just I'm in a good place, Tie, and I'm in

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Speaker 2: a good place because of today's episode two, because we

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Speaker 2: are having a friend of the show and a friend

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Speaker 2: in general, and we haven't had him in a few months,

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Speaker 2: and I'm just excited to get in the weeds with

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Speaker 2: him as well.

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Speaker 3: Matt Brown he writes the Extra Points with Matt Brown newsletter.

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Speaker 3: He covers pretty much all things college football business related,

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Speaker 3: and Matt has seen this universe grow up in a

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Speaker 3: really big, really quick way, frankly because of NIL, because

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Speaker 3: of the implications with transfer portal, because of the implications

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Speaker 3: with coaching movement, because of everything that you always hear

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Speaker 3: about conference realignment. We're going to try and dissect the

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Speaker 3: small sliver of that on today's show. We want to

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Speaker 3: try and get in depth talk a little bit more

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Speaker 3: about NIL because, frankly, it's the kind of thing Dan

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Speaker 3: that we do this every day, even we don't fully

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Speaker 3: understand what the ramifications are where it's taking the sport.

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Speaker 3: One of the things we hear a lot is is

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Speaker 3: college football dying because of NIL. You hear some real

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Speaker 3: doom and gloom stuff with respect to NIL. We want

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Speaker 3: to try and talk to Matt Brown and get a

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Speaker 3: little bit more detail on what exactly is going on

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Speaker 3: in the weeds out there.

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Speaker 2: It's very rare that you can find somebody who covers

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Speaker 2: the sport, who's into the sport, who knows all of

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Speaker 2: the rules, who knows all of the repercussions, who knows

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Speaker 2: all of the history. Who knows all of the possibilities.

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Speaker 2: Matt doesn't. I don't, you don't. Thatt just happens to

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Speaker 2: know more than us about this specific topic because this

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Speaker 2: is his beat. The business of college sports is his beat,

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Speaker 2: and our beat is what could we call Alan Lazard?

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Speaker 2: Yea in a funny way? What is a name that

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Speaker 2: we could come up with? Good or bad? What could

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Speaker 2: we call him? Because we love watching him catch balls

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Speaker 2: at names? I exactly, So I appreciate that we can

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Speaker 2: bring on somebody like Matt to answer that kind of question,

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Speaker 2: because nil, as you reference alluded to whatever. It's one

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Speaker 2: of those things where I think, because I am one

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Speaker 2: of the average college football fans, where you can say

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Speaker 2: what is nil? And you can say, oh, players can

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Speaker 2: make money off of their name and image and likeness,

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Speaker 2: and you know they have more freedom financially than ever before,

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Speaker 2: and like, how does it work?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know who's in charge, I

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Speaker 2: don't know who's where's the money coming from? I don't

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Speaker 2: know are they taxed? I don't know.

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Speaker 3: We joked about it on the show we did on Tuesday.

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Speaker 3: If we want to sponsor an Instagram post? Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: think technically we could. I don't know how we would.

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Speaker 3: Maybe we can ask Matt.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely a new layer. If you've ever been to

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Speaker 2: like an old diner that has like the fourteen layer cake, Like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I can get through all that.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely a new layer in an already difficult sport

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Speaker 2: to follow day to day. Ty you know what I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about? Those German chocolate cakes.

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Speaker 3: I do. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if those sing to you or if

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Speaker 2: those revolt you. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Fourteen layers is a lot of layers.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot of layers. I've seen Lasagnas that are

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Speaker 2: like deeply and densely layered. But it's something that we

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Speaker 2: talked about, and I want to ask Matt about too,

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Speaker 2: about what this does for kind of mainstream fandom, if

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Speaker 2: mainstream fandom even matters with college football, And I've made

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Speaker 2: the reference to you know, European soccer leagues and how

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Speaker 2: difficult they can be to be very into all the time.

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Speaker 2: I almost think it's similar to like, are you into

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Speaker 2: DC comics? Will you watch a Batman movie and be

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Speaker 2: like h There were some inconsistencies based on detective comics.

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Speaker 2: Number forty four or like Bain actually doesn't have that

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Speaker 2: accent anymore. Like it's like it's a very much all

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Speaker 2: in situation that is very difficult to be all in

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Speaker 2: on all the time, and some people love, whether it's

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Speaker 2: comic books and movies and books and like these like

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Speaker 2: micro universes. College football is very much in college sports,

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Speaker 2: very much a micro universe that you need to be

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Speaker 2: both into, at peace with, and willing to do it

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Speaker 2: all the time. Because if you are an Oklahoma State fan,

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Speaker 2: if you're a Minnesota fan, if you're a North Carolina fan,

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Speaker 2: and you are a diehard, that means you know the

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Speaker 2: recruits they're targeting. It means you might know who their

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Speaker 2: analysts are. What's an analyst? I kind of know, but

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I can fully explain the day

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Speaker 2: to day of an analyst as opposed to an assistant coach.

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Speaker 2: So I'm just I'm glad we have This is a

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Speaker 2: long winded way of saying, I'm glad we have Matt

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Speaker 2: who can say here is my thing. And this is

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Speaker 2: as best as I can tell in this constantly evolving world.

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Speaker 1: How it works.

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Speaker 3: Extra points mb dot com is the url if you

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Speaker 3: want to go and check out what Matt has to offer.

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Speaker 3: I think we just jump in.

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Speaker 2: Let's do it.

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Speaker 3: Don't forget. If you want to subscribe to the show,

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Speaker 3: go on out to our website soliverbal dot com. You

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Speaker 3: can find all the links there. We would encourage you

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Speaker 3: to rate and review the show if you haven't already.

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Speaker 3: For Ballers dot com if you want, you can not

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Speaker 3: only get early access to this episode, will drop it

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Speaker 3: a day early, but you can also watch the video

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Speaker 3: that we'll record with Dan and myself and with Matt Brown.

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Speaker 3: And last, but certainly not least, please do follow along

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Speaker 3: on social media with an important emphasis on some describing

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Speaker 3: to the YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash the

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Speaker 3: solid verbal. All right, Dan joining us now from extra

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Speaker 3: points with Matt Brown. It's the Matt Brown portion of

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Speaker 3: that title. Matt Brown, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: Thanks fella. That's always always great to be here.

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Speaker 3: How you been so things have taken off for you

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Speaker 3: with the newsletter, man.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've been joking with my wife that

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Speaker 1: if we can just get through this next week, that

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Speaker 1: things will slow down and things go back to normal.

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Speaker 1: And it's been like that for like eighteen months. But

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Speaker 1: if you write about off the field stuff. It's been

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Speaker 1: one haymaker after another, and I've been really lucky that

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Speaker 1: like being able to write about just the nerdiest stuff

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Speaker 1: in college sports has grown enough of an audience to

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Speaker 1: really let me do this. It's been wonderful. You know what.

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Speaker 2: By the way, you know what I like about Matt

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Speaker 2: Brown other than the fact that I just like Matt

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Speaker 2: Brown that he's a nice, smart person who works very

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Speaker 2: hard to inform people, is he has selected an element

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Speaker 2: of college sports and college football, and it's just like,

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Speaker 2: this is my corner, this is my thing, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of people, I mean, it's not just podcast, so

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Speaker 2: it's everybody. We're just like, I'm talking sports with my guys,

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Speaker 2: and Matt's like, this is what interests me, this is

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Speaker 2: what I'm going to lock in on, and this is

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Speaker 2: what I'm going to become as as much of an

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Speaker 2: expert as possible in. And so I like that with restaurants,

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Speaker 2: I like that with humans, and so I like that

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Speaker 2: with of course people who cover sports. So that's that

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Speaker 2: to me, ty is what I love about having them. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and not just that, I mean we're out here yelling

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Speaker 2: about is nil the end of college football? Matt's like,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to file a Foyer request. I'll get back

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Speaker 2: to you in a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: No, I had no idea when I got into this

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Speaker 1: world that I feel like I was going to end

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Speaker 1: up with eighteen credit hours and accounting and learned a

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Speaker 1: little a lot more about sports law and all this

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Speaker 1: stuff here. And you're right, I think part of that

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Speaker 1: just came out of the fact that, you know, my

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Speaker 1: blogging early days was Ohio State fan. There's like forty

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Speaker 1: five people on that beat. There's nothing interesting that I

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Speaker 1: can say, especially outside of Ohio, about Ohio States linebackers.

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Speaker 1: But I can talk to you about how states finances

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Speaker 1: or their contracts are other things. And then it turns

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Speaker 1: out that was interesting to me. And now I've learned

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Speaker 1: a lot about that kind of esoteric stuff. So like, listen,

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Speaker 1: if you want to talk Patriot League, you want to

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Speaker 1: talk Nil, you want to talk some just like nitty stuff,

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Speaker 1: like I'm your hunckle Berry. I'm glad, like that's the

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Speaker 1: that's the thing I've learned how to do Huckleberry.

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Speaker 3: All right, Well, look, why don't we start with Nil.

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Speaker 3: I think the last time that we had you on

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Speaker 3: it was before the season had kicked up. It was

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Speaker 3: before I quit the mysterious day job. So we've all

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Speaker 3: kind of been on this journey over the last year together.

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Speaker 3: Let me harken back to that kind of exaggerated question

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Speaker 3: that I reference at the beginning, is nil the end

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Speaker 3: of college football?

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Speaker 1: No? I don't. I don't think so at all. And

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you this. I feel like there's really two

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Speaker 1: different nil markets that are happening right now. There's the

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Speaker 1: NIL marketplace for primarily top three hundred college football players,

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Speaker 1: a top one hundred college basketball players, where that gets

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Speaker 1: written a lot through the eyes of college football assistant

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Speaker 1: coaches and as one marketplace, right and then you have

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Speaker 1: the nil marketplace for literally everybody else, because that marketplace

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Speaker 1: does exist for D one softball players and Division two

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Speaker 1: football players and D three everybody else's And what we're

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Speaker 1: seeing because we actually do have some heart and fast

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Speaker 1: data about this. We can look up compliance forms that

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Speaker 1: are sent to schools for athletes that do deals. We

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Speaker 1: have a general idea about how many athletes at a

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Speaker 1: given school have done any kind of deal, and we

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Speaker 1: know that at a place like Ohio State or Alabama

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Speaker 1: or Tennessee you know, around one out of four college

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Speaker 1: athletes across all other sports have done anything with NIL.

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Speaker 1: With football players, the percentages a little bit higher, and

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Speaker 1: we have to remember that some athletes, like international students,

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Speaker 1: can't do nil deals because that way to complicate their visa.

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Speaker 1: So maybe it's like maybe it's like a third. If

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Speaker 1: we look at eligible athletes at G five or one

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Speaker 1: Triple A schools, it might be twelve ten eight percent,

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Speaker 1: and it goes down farther from there. So if the

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Speaker 1: participations that low, I don't look at that as you know,

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Speaker 1: being a catastrophic anything on college football. And most of

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Speaker 1: the time, if someone's getting a thousand bucks or two

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Speaker 1: thousand bucks to go, you know, shill for candles on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: I think that's great, right. I think when we talk

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Speaker 1: to assistant coaches, and this is not to be disrespectful,

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Speaker 1: but it is in their interest to freak out about

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Speaker 1: every tiny little difference perceived or in actuality between their

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Speaker 1: program and any other program because they get paid set

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Speaker 1: under fifty grand to recruit and if somebody else has

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Speaker 1: something a little bit different from them, well that compromises

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Speaker 1: their ability, right, So it's in their interest to tell

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Speaker 1: reporters that have go outen in public and like this

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Speaker 1: is the wild West. This is changing everything. And you know,

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Speaker 1: for the kind of athlete that was going to get

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Speaker 1: a bagman deal anyway, you know, we're seeing that now.

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Speaker 1: It's just a different text classification. But based on just

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Speaker 1: what we've seen so far, the impact that this has

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Speaker 1: had on roster management and roster construction in college football

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Speaker 1: in general, I think it's a little bit overstated. A

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Speaker 1: lot of the stuff that everyone's freaking out about now

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Speaker 1: that was still happening. I mean, I mean, Jimbo said

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Speaker 1: that that same thing, right We was always doing nil deals,

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Speaker 1: we just weren't always talking about them. That's been the

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Speaker 1: big difference right now is that now there's paperwork to

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Speaker 1: some of the stuff that's been going on for decades.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and on top of that, there's the whole transfer rule.

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Speaker 3: And I'm curious to hear how you've combatd the question

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Speaker 3: of the end of the sport as we know it,

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Speaker 3: because there are two things that have been kind of

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Speaker 3: rolled into one conflated. You've obviously got nil legislation. More

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Speaker 3: guys are eligible to get money off their name, image

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Speaker 3: and likeness. That's what that stands for if anyone out

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Speaker 3: there is wondering what is nil? But you combine that

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Speaker 3: with transfer portal activity, and it feels like, suddenly we've

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Speaker 3: got this free agent marketing. College football guys are getting paid.

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Speaker 1: It's not what it used to be.

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Speaker 3: YadA, YadA, YadA, the end of the sport as we

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Speaker 3: know it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I do hear that sometimes, and I hear

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Speaker 1: that from fans, and sometimes they can hear that from administrators.

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Speaker 1: So my first question to be, like, let's interrogate that

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Speaker 1: a little bit. What is it about an athlete getting

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Speaker 1: paid above the border are boldboard that makes you feel

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Speaker 1: like this isn't fun to watch? Like for me, I

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Speaker 1: like watching the football game on Saturday. I like making

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Speaker 1: jokes on Twitter with my friends. I like eating irresponsible

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Speaker 1: things in parking lots and being offered clear liquid in glasses. Right,

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Speaker 1: and none of that changes based on the tax situation

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Speaker 1: of anybody on the field. I can understand some frustration

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Speaker 1: with Hey, rosters are more transient now, and maybe I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that freshman that we signed is going

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Speaker 1: to be somebody that we see in two or three years.

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Speaker 1: That's been true for college sports other than college football.

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Speaker 1: For a while. One of the fun things about this

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Speaker 1: job has been learning about how recruiting and roster management,

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Speaker 1: all these things work in other sports. And to hear

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Speaker 1: volleyball coaches saying like, oh my gosh, people have been

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Speaker 1: tampering like hell for years, Like the AA volleyball coaches

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Speaker 1: are like the bagmen of that community, and people still

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Speaker 1: care about volleyball. So I look at that and think, like,

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Speaker 1: I get how that might make some people's lives more difficult,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think it fundamentally changes the experience of

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Speaker 1: what we like, and things evolve and change. I don't

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Speaker 1: think the way that roster management and nil and transfers

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Speaker 1: are looking now will be what they look like in

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Speaker 1: a couple of years. That market is going to reach

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Speaker 1: some kind of equilibrium a little bit. But if coach

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Speaker 1: is changing this quickly, hasn't ruined the sport for you.

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Speaker 1: Are school's changing conferences this quickly, right? I don't think

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Speaker 1: it should if a middle linebacker makes that same decision,

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Speaker 1: especially because you are probably going to benefit from that

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: Fair Enough, what don't we know at this point, because

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Speaker 2: as far as I can remember, the NCAA last summer said, Okay,

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Speaker 2: you are good to do this. Also, we're not doing

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Speaker 2: anything with it. We're not legislating things yet, we are

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Speaker 2: not overseeing it. And so there is this element and

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Speaker 2: you know, the term wild wild West is used a lot,

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Speaker 2: but like there was an articles today I think it

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Speaker 2: was David Ubben at the Athletic talking about like the

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Speaker 2: Tennessee Fan Collective putting together fifteen twenty twenty five million

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Speaker 2: dollars per recruiting class and putting it towards, you know,

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Speaker 2: getting star players paid because of their contributions to winning

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Speaker 2: and production, productivity, whatever on the field. So what is

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Speaker 2: their oversight? What is the oversight? What do contracts look like?

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Speaker 2: Who is looking at contracts? Is that person who is

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Speaker 2: looking at Hendon Hooker's contract from a car dealership somebody

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Speaker 2: who has the best interest of the car dealership, has

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Speaker 2: the best interest of this like third party like open

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Speaker 2: endorse so we're gonna help you like find endorsements and

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Speaker 2: everything like that. Is it an agent who's like, hey,

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Speaker 2: Hendon Hooker, I'm looking out for you. This looks out

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Speaker 2: for me. This is our deal. Like what is yet

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Speaker 2: to be written in terms of all of these new

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Speaker 2: business relationships with not amateurs in terms of amateur student athlete,

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Speaker 2: but amateurs of the business world.

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Speaker 1: This is the biggest question, and it's something I have

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Speaker 1: a big trelot board here and like on my computer,

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Speaker 1: and there's like eight different stories kind of in process

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Speaker 1: of reporting looking through this because this is the big

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Speaker 1: question that I have, and I feel very confident that

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Speaker 1: we're going to see some stories first and these first

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Speaker 1: couple of months this year about athletes are getting some

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Speaker 1: unpleasant surprises from the IRS, particularly for the athletes that

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Speaker 1: took big expensive cars and not cash and not realizing

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Speaker 1: that those are taxable assets, and suddenly they owe, you know,

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Speaker 1: the IRS, nine thousand dollars because of that truck that

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Speaker 1: they then gave back because they transferred or did something else.

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Speaker 1: That's an issue because I can tell you those first

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Speaker 1: couple of months when nil deals were first happened July, August, September,

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Speaker 1: nobody really knew what they were doing. And by nobody,

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Speaker 1: I mean not just the athletes, the compliance officers and

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Speaker 1: a lot of the brands. A lot of the companies

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Speaker 1: that have been really heavily involved in this world have

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Speaker 1: never done influencer marketing before, so they don't really know

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Speaker 1: how to evaluate the success of an Instagram campaign. They

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Speaker 1: don't know how to price it, they don't know what

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Speaker 1: kind of contracts they have to offer. They just know

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Speaker 1: I want to help ol state you and which is fine.

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Speaker 1: And on one hand, I look at that and think

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Speaker 1: there's there's reason to be excited or optimistic because as

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Speaker 1: those local businesses learn more, that will mean more opportunities

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Speaker 1: for all football and all women's volleyball and soccer players

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Speaker 1: and people that that can benefit. But there's going to

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Speaker 1: be pickups. I have a lot of questions about these collectives.

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Speaker 1: I have a lot I have questions about how the

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Speaker 1: collectives themselves make money because some of them are pitching

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Speaker 1: themselves as completely nonprofit entities, which we'll see if the

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Speaker 1: IRS agrees. You know, that's stay tuned on extra points.

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Speaker 2: So as I saw, Heath Shuler is a Heath Shooler

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Speaker 2: is a consultant for the Tenet like also they have

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Speaker 2: a pain for.

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Speaker 1: Former Congressman He's right, yeah, for the tendency on Yeah,

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Speaker 1: agents were agents. What they typically do, right, they take five, ten,

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Speaker 1: fifteen percent of these kind of deals. And what I've

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Speaker 1: talked to from a lot of other agents working independently,

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Speaker 1: is I don't really want to be involved in the

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Speaker 1: college athlete and IL space because ten percent of a

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Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty dollars deal is nothing, and I

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Speaker 1: have to do an enormous amount of scale to do it.

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Speaker 1: And I can't require the athlete that's signing with me

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Speaker 1: at nineteen to still sign with me once they turned pro.

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Speaker 1: And that's been kind of the issue with the Sneaker universe,

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Speaker 1: right with basketball players. So if a lot of those

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Speaker 1: other agents aren't getting involved, I didn't realize this until

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Speaker 1: this year. Basically, for college, you can just declare yourself

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Speaker 1: an agent. Like I've talked to a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that were representing an athlete I was thinking of doing

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Speaker 1: a deal with I only to learn they were an

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Speaker 1: undergrad and that they're representing their dormmat and like they're twenty,

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Speaker 1: they haven't even finished Vermont yet, So like, okay, that

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Speaker 1: that changes the way that you and I work together.

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Speaker 1: So I would have some concerns, and I would have

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Speaker 1: some concerns. And this isn't This is not a criticism

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Speaker 1: of Dave's story or any these other stories. But if

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Speaker 1: we're writing about the NIL space and we the only

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Speaker 1: people were talking to are people who run collectives that

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Speaker 1: are like, Nope, my collective is giving out one hundred

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Speaker 1: bajillion dollars. And then we talked to somebody who's industry

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Speaker 1: benefits from people using these collectives, like yep, I'm the

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Speaker 1: CEO of Big Nil, and I looked at the numbers

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Speaker 1: and nils getting real big, and then we publish that

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Speaker 1: without maybe digging into can we confirm any of those numbers?

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Speaker 1: Are that deal that's being offered to the athlete actually happening?

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Speaker 1: How these people are making money? Like I got lots

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Speaker 1: of follow up questions, and it reminds me a little

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Speaker 1: bit of like crypto or maybe some other basic financial

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Speaker 1: instruments where maybe the cart's gotten out ahead of the

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Speaker 1: horse a little bit, and we we're not exactly sure

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen in a year or two in

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Speaker 1: terms of regulations or actually executing on the things that

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Speaker 1: we say that we're going.

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Speaker 2: To do, you know what I mean totally? And so

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Speaker 2: what is where is the messiness coming from?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 2: From the school's perspective, right, so you have the schools

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Speaker 2: who have students who are making money from outside entities,

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Speaker 2: and they themselves have nothing to do with things. But

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Speaker 2: also you're talking about schools who are with these athletes

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Speaker 2: all day, schools who could be seeing bad things happen

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Speaker 2: if a deal goes wrong, if it affects eligibility all,

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Speaker 2: Like what are the school's roles at this point? Like

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Speaker 2: they can say they're educating, but like there is this

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Speaker 2: like weird lack of accountability from the schools perspective. Do

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Speaker 2: you see that changing or adjusting? Like it's just very

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Speaker 2: strange that. And I am somebody who likes that players

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Speaker 2: are making money from their name, image and likeness, but

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Speaker 2: it's very strange that, like college football is a major

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Speaker 2: sport and yet the schools have nothing to do with

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Speaker 2: the income of their best players.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as the.

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Speaker 2: NHL like all these like we have governing bodies that

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Speaker 2: oversee everything, and schools are like, you know, whatever happens happens.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of the worst case scenario, I think in

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Speaker 1: a couple of different ways, right, And I've talked to

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Speaker 1: some bigger schools that say, you know, even if we

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Speaker 1: change state law that allows us to like actually proactively

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Speaker 1: go after and try to book some of these deals,

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Speaker 1: we're not gonna want to do it because we don't

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Speaker 1: want that liability, especially because maybe not every company that

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Speaker 1: wants to aggressively get involved in this space is on

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Speaker 1: the level. Right. So if you're Ohio State and you

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Speaker 1: book a deal with Jerry's you know, truck company dealership,

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Speaker 1: and that dealership goes belly up or get sued or

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Speaker 1: something bad happens as some oh issue is liable, then

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Speaker 1: don't want that. But you're kind of still doing that

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Speaker 1: right now without you're right at that level of oversight.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you here's here's another major thing that

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Speaker 1: I hear a lot, because so much of the people

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Speaker 1: that I talk to are mid majors or maybe D

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Speaker 1: one schools that don't have football programs. Like let's say

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Speaker 1: if we're you know, a Patriot legue team. Let's say

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Speaker 1: let's say we're Lafayette, and they might sit down there

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Speaker 1: and talk to their athletes, and you're gonna have athletes

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Speaker 1: at Lafayette who could make nil money, probably not one

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars unless there's somebody who's really good at twitch,

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Speaker 1: but people who generates the value. But Lafayette, and this

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Speaker 1: is just an example. You know, don't if you don't,

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Speaker 1: don't yell at me or if those specifics are wrong.

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Speaker 1: But Lafia, it's probably got like one and a half

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Speaker 1: compliance people, a couple of grad assistants helping them in

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Speaker 1: that department. They're gonna have two or three sports information

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Speaker 1: people and some grad assistants, so they're gonna I mean

434
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: like people at those kind of schools will tell me

435
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 1: I literally don't have the capacity to do more about

436
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 1: nil than say, we did this deal with influencer open doors,

437
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,639
Speaker 1: so we have the compliance stuff. Here's a couple of

438
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 1: videos you can watch about Instagram. Please don't do a

439
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 1: deal with the porn company. Please don't deal a deal

440
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 1: that's going to embarrass me. And you're on your own,

441
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 1: and there's gonna be a couple of very entrepreneurial minded

442
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 1: people that will jump into that, and other people are like,

443
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 1: I have no idea even where to start, and so

444
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,239
Speaker 1: they don't. And I look at that and think, well,

445
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 1: that's too bad, not just because you're missing out on money,

446
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 1: but you're missing out on building a professional network and

447
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 1: learning about industries. That's really hard to do when you're

448
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,879
Speaker 1: a college athlete, which I think people forget sometimes because

449
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 1: it's not like you can if you're playing d one

450
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 1: basketball that you can just say, all right, hey, i'm

451
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 1: studying abroad, I'm going to go to Italy, I'll see

452
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 1: you in four months, or I'm doing this internship now

453
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: with Goldman because you got to lift weights and do

454
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: stuff for twin tenty five hours a week, so you

455
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,479
Speaker 1: don't get that same college experience. Going in doing nil

456
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: deals gives you an opportunity to be exposed to some

457
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 1: of that and the lack of resources for smaller schools

458
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: is one of the big pain points for the bigger schools.

459
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 1: That's the pain point Dan, for exactly what I think

460
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 1: you're explaining, and then they hear their regents and their

461
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,199
Speaker 1: boosters and their fans say, listen, I looked on the

462
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: message boards here and sliced bread says that somebody in

463
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: other school has given that ten million dollars. What are

464
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: we doing and we can't and there's incentives to maybe

465
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 1: do stuff outside the lines. It's a difficult position to

466
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: be and if you have that kind of booster community.

467
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 2: How universal is state law at this point, because we

468
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 2: recently saw a story about Florida State feeling like they're

469
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 2: falling behind because of what they're unable to do within

470
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 2: the state of Florida. So how universal is state law

471
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 2: in terms of paying influencers, you know, using name, image

472
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 2: and likeness among students, whatever. And how universal is the

473
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 2: willingness or I don't know what my like my English

474
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 2: is here, but how universal is the willingness of schools

475
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 2: to part with trademarks? So an Alabama logo a us

476
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 2: C logo. I had seen that that was sort of

477
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 2: a hang up with Caleb Williams as he was trying

478
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 2: to figure out where he wanted to go. That USC

479
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 2: isn't especially fond of parting with its own trademarks for

480
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 2: other people to use unless they are Nike or what,

481
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 2: you know what, unless it's a deal like that. So

482
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 2: how universal is the willingness on the state level and

483
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 2: the universe and the willingness on the university level from

484
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 2: a trademark perspective.

485
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: This is a great question and it's a really important one,

486
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: and the answer is not even close to at all? Right,

487
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: I figured, yeah, so not I don't want to be

488
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 1: like explicitly partisan here or anything, but I can tell

489
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: you that most of the state lawmakers last year that

490
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: were most involved in crafting NIL bills had no idea

491
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: what they were doing do not follow college athletics are

492
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: not aware of any of the issues in that world.

493
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: They were doing it because they're boosters and their voters

494
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: were saying, you know, state US going to fall behind,

495
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,239
Speaker 1: so we have to do this really quickly. And then

496
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: they realized in six months that maybe they made some mistakes,

497
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 1: and that's so you're seeing one. Not every state did

498
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: one of these at all. Indiana, Utah, I want to say,

499
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: Wisconsin had none, and some commentators have argued that actually

500
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: put them at an advantage. It's not an accident that

501
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,360
Speaker 1: BYU was one of the first schools to do wide,

502
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: you know, broad based deals for not just all of

503
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: their walk ons, but I think all of their women

504
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: athletes have something so like and their law let them

505
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: do that. So you have some places where you have

506
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: more restrictive laws, and there's a push to change that,

507
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: particularly in the South, with Florida, with Mississippi, with Georgia.

508
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: You have some places where the law is hilariously you know,

509
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 1: poorly written, and that has nothing to do with enforcement

510
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 1: and it's just kind of there. You have some places

511
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: where states the state legislator only meets like once every

512
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: other year or it meets for six weeks and they

513
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: have other things going on, as you man I'd expect,

514
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: and so nothing's really happening there. So there's there is

515
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: not even close to certainty. And this is why the

516
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: nc double A and why are one of the reasons

517
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: why the NCUBA are many ads are saying we need

518
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: a federal law, and that's that's you know, that's that's

519
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: kind of a different conversation. And then with the trademark thing,

520
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: you're right too, there are smaller schools that don't care,

521
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: and even a couple of big schools that don't care.

522
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: Mi Alma Mater Ohio State probably employs more trademark lawyers

523
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: who are like aggressively going after this. Then a lot

524
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 1: of other schools have like athletic trainers, right like if I,

525
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: if I uh pronounce the incorrectly on this podcast, I

526
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: might get a letter to Mike my po box. So

527
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: that's that's a big issue for many schools. Licensing and

528
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: sponsorship is a big revenue source and if they don't

529
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: aggressively protect that IP if Texas A and M doesn't

530
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: suit anybody that thinks about the number twelve, then they

531
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 1: lose that. And we'll see if that becomes an issue

532
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: in recruiting. My guess is probably not that much, but

533
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: it is an issue, and what kind of nil deals

534
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: you can do. The last thing I think I would

535
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: say is, despite hesitancy about copyrights, we haven't seen anybody

536
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 1: yet any school actually try to take punitive action on

537
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: an athlete because the deal that they did. I could tell,

538
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: you know, beginning in the beginning of this process, a

539
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: lot of compliance teams and honestly still now expressed a

540
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: lot of apprehension about their athletes becoming barstool athletes or

541
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: doing gilts at barstool because it's because of their connection

542
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 1: with gambling, and many state laws said don't do that.

543
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: But nobody really, you know, made an athlete, to the

544
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: best of my knowledge, terminate that deal or actually remove

545
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: their eligibility. They may have educated them, they may have

546
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: said please don't do this, they may have talked about it,

547
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: but I don't think anyone's been willing to actually put

548
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: the hammer down. And that's going to be true. I

549
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: think as other athletes kind of push the envelope as

550
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: to what is permitted. I mean, if you were somebody

551
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: that did a deal with the sportsbook, right now and

552
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 1: your school said no, if you're good enough, I don't

553
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 1: know anyone's going to tell you not to write like

554
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: you have to do something absolutely outlandish to really get

555
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: I think in trouble right now, you know what I mean.

556
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 3: One of the things that Dan and I have been

557
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: thinking about a lot is perhaps this other I almost

558
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 3: want to call it a don't look up moment where

559
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 3: we know that EA Sports wants to make the video game.

560
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 3: We know that pretty much every college wants to be

561
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 3: part of that video game. We also know that now

562
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 3: because of new rules, players can benefit in some regard

563
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 3: from that. The don't look up moment, though, is how.

564
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: Do they benefit from that?

565
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 3: And who coordinates the benefits that they receive from that

566
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: purported video game. Where I'm going with this is where

567
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 3: are we at with regard to a player's association, some

568
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 3: sort of player union? Is it the kind of thing

569
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 3: Matt where players can buy in when they start playing

570
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 3: at the collegiate level and then they're just part of

571
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 3: this thing? Do you foresee any sort of group with

572
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 3: oversight applying to specific benefits, specific circumstances and not the

573
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 3: whole sha? Where are we at with that movement?

574
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: So? This is a really good question. Let me answer

575
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: the video game part first, and then we can talk

576
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 1: about because you actually hit on something that's a gigantic deal.

577
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: I was actually just talking to somebody at a sports

578
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: like literally before we recorded today. I can tell you

579
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: that there is a lot of optimism on their side

580
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: that when the game is released next year, it will

581
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: include player likenesses. And the reason for that is over

582
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: the last several months, many schools, mostly P five schools,

583
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: but some G five schools too, have begun to set

584
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: up group licensing programs. I think a lot of them

585
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: are working with a company called the Brander Group brand

586
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: our group, which does group licensing, I want to say

587
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: for like the WNBAPA and some other professional associations. And

588
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: the way that's set up now is an athlete voluntarily

589
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: opts in. It's not required. You can do it as

590
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: soon as you enroll, and that gives the school permission

591
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: to make jerseys with your name on them or do

592
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: other digital products with your name on them, and then

593
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: you get a percentage of of that revenue. It's not

594
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: like a union where maybe you could collectively bargain and

595
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: argue over that particular percentage. So it's not the same thing,

596
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: but now you have an end where you can do that.

597
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: And now we are getting to the point where so

598
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: many schools are opting into those deals with this one

599
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: company that theoretically Brandar could then go to EA and say,

600
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: I have the NILS for football players at eighty schools.

601
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: Let's do a deal where that EA Sports would then

602
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: pay every one of those athletes. I would I would

603
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: say probably the in the mid to high four figures

604
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: to appear in this game, and then potentially a percentage

605
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: for future DLCs if you're involved, and I think every

606
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: college football player be thrilled to do that. And then

607
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: once that happens, then you would be a system where

608
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: athletes could opt in at their individual school and I

609
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: would honestly expect some kind of announcement on that front

610
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: by this summer. Wow, that's that's where the wheels are

611
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: turning on there. So there's a lot of optimism on

612
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: the video game, but that's going to happen. And also

613
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: if that doesn't happen, notre name is not going to

614
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: be in the game, like Northwestern is not going to

615
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: be in the game. I think probably ten schools won't

616
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: be in the game, but it's going to happen. The

617
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: other question, though, is a much much bigger, really existential

618
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: question about are we're going to have a union. And

619
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: right now there can't be an athlete union because legally

620
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: college athletes are not employees. You have to you have

621
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: to be an employee before you can unionize, and that

622
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: may change. That may change because the NLRB, the organization

623
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: that ruled in favor of Northwestern, has based like the

624
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: head of that is basically put out an all points

625
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: bulletin saying that would be a great time for an

626
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: athlete to say to file a complaint, and athletes right

627
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: now haven't. But two athletes rights organizations, one in California

628
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: and what one I believe in Minnesota have filed those complaints.

629
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: So that takes eighteen months basically for that to happen,

630
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: but it could. The federal court system is looking at

631
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: a case right now, it's called the Johnson case dealing

632
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: with Villanova of all places that are saying that we

633
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: deserve to be classified as AES and so the federal courts,

634
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: whether that's the Supreme Court or district court might rule that.

635
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: So once that happens, then we could see another union drive,

636
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: and then down the road we could have a player's

637
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: union who that could collectively bargain not just about the

638
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: video game or about jerseys, but also about health insurance

639
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: or base salaries or COVID or any of those other things.

640
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: I think there's some level of wish casting among certain

641
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: elements in both college sports media and college sports academia

642
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: that are like, this is going to happen tomorrow, and

643
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: regardless whether you think it's a good idea or not,

644
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: like I can tell you it's not happening tomorrow, and

645
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: I would put my money on the next union drive

646
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: in college football failing before it is successful. But there's

647
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: a good chance eventually this will happen and we'll have

648
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: that set up like we do in the pros.

649
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 3: My other question with regard to that, Matt, where does

650
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 3: this go next? So we know about the video game,

651
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 3: you mentioned, jersey sales, things of that nature, but my hunches,

652
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 3: and maybe this is wish casting as well, that the

653
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 3: longer we go on in a world with NIL, the

654
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 3: more that sphere of influence will grow or will test

655
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 3: the boundaries to see what it can get its hands on.

656
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 3: Where do you see NIL going next? With respect to

657
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 3: players getting benefits financial otherwise from things like jersey sales

658
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 3: or other products that maybe weren't even in the equation

659
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 3: when we started talking about this thing a year plus ago.

660
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's two places where it can still

661
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: grow a ton. Right now, we talk about nil, we're

662
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: usually talking about social media endorsements. You know, if somebody

663
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: throwing something on Instagram or TikTok, or maybe going to

664
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: the local fireworks store and like signing autographs, which is cool,

665
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: but you do need to have a certain size social

666
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: media account to really be able to do that profitably.

667
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: It's a probably five figures. Not everybody has that, but

668
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: every single college athlete, whether you start or you're on

669
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: the bench, or you at a big school or a

670
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: small school, you're an expert in that sport in one place.

671
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: That's just been kind of like in its baby steps,

672
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: But I really do think we'll grow in the next

673
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: year or two. Are athletes making money running summer camps

674
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: and giving lessons and being involved with high schools and

675
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 1: club sports and AAU and going back to their hometowns.

676
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: It's already a huge deal in a lot of Olympic sports,

677
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: particularly swimming. College swim coaches generally get paid like crap,

678
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: and a lot of them, especially assistants, basically make enough

679
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: money off the summer camp circuit to allow them to

680
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,479
Speaker 1: continue to stay in college. I think players are going

681
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: to get involved in that space right now too. There's

682
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: a lot of market places to make finding an Instagram

683
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: deal pretty quick and easy, and that doesn't exist right

684
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: now for doing camp clinics. But that is a place

685
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: I think could really grow a lot. Maybe a running

686
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: back brings this whole running back room to the local

687
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: high school and participates in two a days with them

688
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: and makes a thousand bucks for it. Like that's I

689
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: think that will continue to grow. The other place here

690
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: is in the group licensing world. You're right, Ti, I

691
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: think companies are trying to figure out what else makes

692
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: sense eide jerseys or besides a peril for athletes to

693
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: be involved in. And if you look at my PR box,

694
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: well it's n ft s right, it's going to be

695
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: digital goods. And I think I'm much more skeptical of that.

696
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: But I could definitely see before, maybe before we get

697
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: EA sports college basketball or college baseball, I could see

698
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: a college football like mobile simulator game that has player

699
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: likenesses or something that's not a Triple A sports title

700
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: that goes directly to iPhone or Android, or maybe just

701
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: to Steam that uses player likenesses. And I think that

702
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: that once it becomes less expensive to kind of experiment

703
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: with those kind of products, that is a world where

704
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: you might see as well, not so much NFT, but

705
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: maybe gamings or more traditional collectibles that athletes can be

706
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: involved in.

707
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: Where does this go with regard to governing bodies, because,

708
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, with the group licensing, you're negotiating with

709
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 2: EA Sports, you're negotiating with a different company, and that's

710
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 2: an acceptable company. We've seen obvious schools and conferences partner

711
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 2: with the A Sports. Everybody seems to be happy with

712
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 2: that type of association. But if you look at Olympic sports,

713
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: there are specific governing bodies for specific sports. You know,

714
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 2: there's United States Track and Field, there's United States Swimming.

715
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: There's then of course the United States Olympic Committee. Whatever

716
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 2: they're associations, it's by sport, it's by governing body. It's

717
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 2: specific to the sport and the needs and the types

718
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 2: of athletes that play that sport. We don't have that.

719
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: We have conferences that oversee scheduling in TV rights. That's

720
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 2: an oversimplification, but it's a major part of what they do.

721
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 2: We have the NCAA, which enforces eligibility and sets the

722
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: rules of eligibility, which seems to be growing more and

723
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 2: more like a dinosaur by the day. What is the

724
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: future of sports specific governing bodies, the way conferences operate

725
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: and the way the sport as a whole. If we

726
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 2: are negotiating national TV deals, is there going to be

727
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 2: more and more of a national governing body specific to

728
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 2: Because this is a foot ball show football, what is

729
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 2: the status of the organization of the sport and sports?

730
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is probably the single biggest story

731
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: outside of maybe nil that I'm writing about on extra points,

732
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: I think this summer. Your listeners may be aware that

733
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago at the NCAA convention in Indianapolis,

734
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: member schools approved the new constitution right where a lot

735
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: of stuff was written about that. But the new constitution

736
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: itself doesn't change a whole lot other than delegate a

737
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: lot of authority to specific divisions. So all of the

738
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: NCAA bylaws that you might be familiar with from this

739
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: is what it takes to be a conference to this

740
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: is the amount of cream cheese you can put on

741
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: your bagel and all of those different things. That's all

742
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: being nuked. And they're saying, D one, make your own.

743
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: And many of the Power five schools are saying, we

744
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: want more autonomy, which means money, and we want more

745
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: championship access which means money in the current system too.

746
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: And I am someone that still really thinks a formal

747
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: P five split is unlikely based on the conversations I've had,

748
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: and if it did, it wouldn't be a straight P

749
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: five G five thing. There's going to be P fives

750
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: that wouldn't want to do it, in G fives that would.

751
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: But that does at the table. It does give the

752
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 1: Division one a ton more flexibility to blow up how

753
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: they've organized their sports in a bunch of different ways.

754
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: So we could very much see a world where a

755
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: college track and field is more regulated by US Track

756
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: than it is the NCAA or Division one. We could

757
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: have different conferences have different scholarship rules for different Olympic sports.

758
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,439
Speaker 1: The SEC in particular would love this because they want

759
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: to give every single softball player the scholarship. They have

760
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: the money, they don't want that to be a partial

761
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: thing anymore. There are PAC twelve schools that want that

762
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: same thing. There's a lot of division. One that says

763
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: that literally defeats the point of us having a softball program.

764
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: We're only doing this for tuition. There's no chance we

765
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: would want to be able to do that even if

766
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: we had the money. This is what's happening with the

767
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: team specific stuff. Is fascinating because you get it now

768
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: that I've been writing about this a lot. I think

769
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: you get an idea for which one of those those

770
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: team specific organizations are invested in college athletics, like I

771
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: think US wrestling is an example where they really are

772
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: because they recognize that that's my Olympic pipeline and these

773
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: are the sports that are threatened, so we want to

774
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: be heavily involved. And then there's US soccer, which historically

775
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: is not very involved to the best of my knowledge,

776
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: in the college world. So those things are going to evolve,

777
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: and I think how football is governed is going to change.

778
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: It's going to change a lot from more rules being

779
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: given to conferences. We could see a system I think

780
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: where the college football Playoff has a lot more like

781
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: regulatory influence over schools are rather mean that just gets

782
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 1: moved out of the NS.

783
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 2: How many employees does the college Football Playoff have?

784
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: That's a great question, that's a great ques. Do you

785
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: know six?

786
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. My assumption is it's not more than

787
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: probably twelve.

788
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 1: No, I don't think it's very much many. EGI this

789
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: is a source of frustration with so many schools, Like, look,

790
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: college football Playoff gets all the money, but when we

791
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: got to investigate somebody's eligibility, and that's Indianapolis, Like, that's

792
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: all that stuff is paid for by a different pool.

793
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: So that is all going to change. And the best

794
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: I can tell you right now is nobody knows the

795
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 1: answer yet, including ads and people that you would expect

796
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: you know the answer. And if we went up and

797
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: grabbed grabbed Greg Sank and grabbed you know, Julie from

798
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: Ohio University, the two chairs of the Transformation Committee, I

799
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: don't think they know yet either, which is both exciting

800
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 1: and probably scary because because there's some gigantic questions, really

801
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: acrimonious questions. Sure that nobody knows yet, they can have

802
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: some educated guesses, and I have a couple of educated guesses.

803
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: I think what it'll look like, but nobody really knows for.

804
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: Certain yet how standardized And I assume your answer is

805
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 2: going to be not very but how standardized is the

806
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 2: P five level the G five level? Financially in pro sports,

807
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: we have there's an understanding and then there are explicitly

808
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: written rules. Hi, your salary floor is sixty million dollars.

809
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 2: You need to pay your players at least sixty million

810
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 2: dollars per season. You need to have a practice facility,

811
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 2: Like there are certain things where if you are the

812
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 2: Los Angeles Clippers, if you are the Calgary Flames, whatever,

813
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 2: there are standardized elements to how you run your organization.

814
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: As we look across college football, and this is a

815
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 2: conversation Tyan I have, it's like, this is a program

816
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 2: that's unserious about winning. They're unserious about becoming that about

817
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 2: winning in the Big ten, they're unserious about winning in

818
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: the acc that they're to collect a check. They're there

819
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 2: because they're big enough, but like they're not spending on coaches,

820
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 2: they're not spending on facilities, they're not spending on recruiting,

821
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 2: and it just seems like there are certain programs that

822
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 2: are just financial doormats, like they're there to make money

823
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 2: and they're not there to compete where it seems that

824
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 2: for the most part, and I know tanking is now

825
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 2: a thing in professional sports and whatever. Are we going

826
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 2: to get to a standardized financial level where we're going

827
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: to say, you know what school A school B, you're

828
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 2: not investing in your program, you are not trying to

829
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 2: compete on a level in which and it's hard for

830
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 2: a lot of these places. Is there are we going

831
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: down a standardization path as the sport reorganizes.

832
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: This is something I think many schools would like to

833
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 1: answer your first question. For Division one, there are supposed

834
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: to be some very basic benchmarks that a school has

835
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 1: to be in compliance to be a D one school.

836
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: And like for football, it's like you're supposed to have

837
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: a stadium that's xcis you need to have attendance of

838
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 1: a certain number over a couple of years, and nobody

839
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: follows that rule. Like if we win to by the

840
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: letter of the rule, the MAC as a conference would

841
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: not be like FBS anymore. That everyone gets waivers and

842
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: they make up their attendance stuff right, And there's some

843
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: frustration about that, but there's also we can't necessarily pick

844
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: and choose what schools will be in the highest level

845
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: without risking being sued. So one thing you could see

846
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: as a standardization tool A couple of ads that have

847
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: floated this would be, if you want to be FBS

848
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: or you want to be like the highest level of

849
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: college football, you have to sponsor twenty three sports or

850
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: twenty two sports and use that as a proxy for

851
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: your athletic department must be doing X, Y or C,

852
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: and you would have to have X number of paid

853
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,479
Speaker 1: staff and you can voluntarily jump in and not You're

854
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: You're right there. The biggest gap, honestly, I think it

855
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: might really be between the very bottom of Division one

856
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: and like a high level mid major, like a what

857
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 1: a Missouri Valley basketball team is doing versus a bottom

858
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: level WHACK or Big South or HBCU right now financially

859
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: is enormous. There are some college facilities that are probably

860
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: worse than where either of you went to high school,

861
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: and and and like that. Then you have the gap

862
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: between a Houston and an ECU, and like Ohio State

863
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 1: and Alabama, and even within the P five, like I

864
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: think we can all agree, you're right, there are some

865
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: schools that are willing to make different financial commitments. And

866
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: then there are schools that you're right, are riding on inertia,

867
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: like what Rutgers is able to do financially despite being

868
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: in the Big Ten. It's not the same sport. And

869
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: you're right like that, that is a question at all

870
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: levels of college football is being asked. Why does it

871
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: make sense if we're clearly not on the same page

872
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: here of resource wise or a wise, for us to

873
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: be in the same boat, And like that's figuring out

874
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 1: the best way to draw that line will be one

875
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: of those contentious issues for sure.

876
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: So what is your your twenty thirty college sports utopia

877
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 2: look like?

878
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 1: Right?

879
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 2: Is it an organizational thing? Is it a financial thing?

880
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 2: Like in your mind if if we're sitting and having

881
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 2: this conversation in eight years and ties in his early fifties,

882
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 2: I don't know how, I don't know, I don't know

883
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 2: how old we're all going to be. But if we're

884
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: having this conversation eight ten, twelve, yes, yeah, and you're

885
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 2: on this show. The hologram of Matt Brown is on

886
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 2: this show saying, Man, they nailed A, B, C, D

887
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 2: and E. What are those things?

888
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: Man? That's that's a great question, and part of that

889
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: I have to recognize I'm coming at this from a

890
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 1: different perspective, right, So one of the things that would

891
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: be important to me would be that athletic spending becomes

892
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 1: more aligned with an institutional goal. So by that, I mean, like,

893
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: we don't see this a ton at the P five,

894
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 1: but we have schools in one that are commuter schools

895
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 1: that are serving mostly non traditional students. So a fry

896
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: school like Portland State, right, you know, that's go Vikings,

897
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: Go Vikings. Cool history of a program one, they're facing

898
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: some struggles right now. But I want to say the

899
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: average age of Portland State students like twenty six or

900
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: twenty seven. And so if you're supposed to be serving

901
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: minority students, non traditional students tradition to students that that

902
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 1: don't have fifty thousand dollars to get takeout loans, should

903
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: you saddle them with student fetes or expenses for a

904
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: football program they're not going to enjoy or for an

905
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: experience that's not the same thing as a residential campus.

906
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: I would argue no, Like, I am not going to

907
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: get all mad online about Stanford or Duke or even

908
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: American wasting money and they're an athoughtic department for some reason,

909
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: because you know those are if we can indulge share

910
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: in hostereotype, those are mostly students of means I would

911
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: get I do get upset when I see schools that

912
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: are targeting less affluent students then being saddled but with

913
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: some of those things. So I think for me, aligning

914
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,240
Speaker 1: those two incentives would be an important thing for schools

915
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: to do, and then every school to be able to say,

916
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: I am spending this money on my athletic department to

917
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: achieve X, y and Z, and here's how I can

918
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 1: measure it, and here's how that aligns with what I'm

919
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: trying to do. I also think it's a bad product

920
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: for fans and honestly for athletes to pretend that schools

921
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: that are not playing the same sport are playing the

922
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: same sport. I don't think it's great for Kent State.

923
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 1: But they got to play three body bag games and

924
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: they might win one out of forty of them, but

925
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: most of the time they're going to lose by forty.

926
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: And it's cool that you got to play in Ohio Stadium.

927
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: It's probably not as cool that you lost forty nine

928
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: to three. Right a world where that happens less, and

929
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,439
Speaker 1: those schools have an opportunity to compete at a level

930
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: that makes sense for them, I think would be a positive.

931
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: The last thing that I think is so important here

932
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: is that the voice of athletes are meaningfully taken into

933
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: account we make decisions. And this is something I've been

934
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: thinking about here too in my own work. Because it's

935
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: it's easy for me to call up an ad and

936
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 1: it's easy for a lot of other reporters to call

937
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: up a coach. It's harder for me to build those

938
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: relationships with athletes either because I have to go through

939
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 1: an SID, I have to hope they check their Twitter, DMS,

940
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 1: I have to use a social network I'm not familiar with,

941
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: which makes me feel extremely old. Yeah, but ultimately like

942
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: it's their lives, like it don't ask me to TikTok man,

943
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 1: like I'm too old to learning this thing. But whenever,

944
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 1: whether it's expanding the playoff or changing the amount of

945
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: time that athletes have to do or to spend on

946
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: their sport, I would want a new system to meaningfully

947
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: take their preferences into account, whether that's giving them money,

948
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 1: giving them healthcare, giving them the opportunity to major in

949
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 1: whatever they want and then being centered. I don't want

950
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: to spend as much time thinking about what will make

951
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: Jimbo Fisher's life more complicated, because, as Don Draper said, like,

952
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: that's what the money's for, Like, I'm not going to

953
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: cry for you, I but the other it's the people

954
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: under you an NFL job, and then yeah, exactly that.

955
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: As I think what we would like and how that

956
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 1: ends up looking, that could be one of ten different things,

957
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: and I don't have a super strong opinion aout any

958
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 1: of them right now. But if we're not gouging regular

959
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: students with money with expenses for stuff they won't watch,

960
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: and we're not taking advantage of athletes as much, I'm

961
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: probably gonna be cool with whatever al I'm going to

962
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: watch whatever it is that comes out from there. You know.

963
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,240
Speaker 3: One of the things that Dan and I talked about

964
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 3: and we brought it up specifically around Jim Harbaugh with

965
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 3: his song and dance, Well he won't he with the NFL,

966
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 3: but the game is changing, and there's probably a percentage

967
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 3: of coaches out there. Maybe Gary Patterson kind of falls

968
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 3: into this category. He definitely does see Yeah, yeah, guys

969
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 3: who are just sort of like I'm getting too old

970
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 3: for this crap. It's changed so much.

971
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: How many of the people that you talk.

972
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 3: To on the administrative level will be out there publicly saying,

973
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 3: we're all for this, we want to support it, we

974
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 3: support the voice of the student athlete. But behind the scenes,

975
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 3: conversations they have with you or among their peers are like, man,

976
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 3: I don't I don't want to deal with this.

977
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny. Those people typically don't talk to me

978
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: as much anymore because of course, right, of course they know,

979
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: like Matt's gonna say that if I tell them right.

980
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 1: What we saw was some coaches. Gary Patterson's a great example. Honestly,

981
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: I think Urban Meyer is a good example. There's a

982
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: certain kind of coach that was only really able to

983
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 1: lead by having a certain kind of power, which you

984
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: definitely can't have that on the left. And we saw this,

985
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 1: I think in the seventies two, when many black athletes said, actually,

986
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: you have to treat me like a human being. You

987
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: can't tell me I have to have this kind of haircut.

988
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: You can't. And then you know, we saw the at

989
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: Wyoming in Iowa and Oregon State. Some of those coaches

990
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 1: like the de Lloyd eatons of the world. They had

991
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: to get out. We also saw that on the administrative level,

992
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: there's a certain kind of AD that's been doing this

993
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: for thirty five years and can't imagine a different way.

994
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: And I don't know if maybe Barry Alvarez specifically falls

995
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: under this camp, but I think people like him like

996
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: this is a good time for me to leave. We

997
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: also saw I think a chunk of administrators, many of

998
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: them I think were really pretty bright, that are much younger,

999
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: that looked at this and thought things can't change as

1000
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: quickly as we'd like them to. And I don't want

1001
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: to kind of go through the thirties of that song

1002
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: and dance. I want to get out now. So we

1003
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 1: saw the Commissioner of the America Yeast, who was somebody

1004
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: that I think could have, you know, led the ACC

1005
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: in ten years. We saw ads at Portland State and

1006
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: you see Davis and a couple of other places. People

1007
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: that were I think under fifty left and so you

1008
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: are seeing a change now. When I talk to a

1009
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: lot of ads now, I think there's a generational shift

1010
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: between are you like over sixty and are not? And

1011
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: how you think about athlete empowerment or nil and you

1012
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: have to be comfortable with some of these changes if

1013
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: you want to you want to stay in this business

1014
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,959
Speaker 1: because it's it's a different world for good or frail.

1015
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 3: I feel like Brian Kelly is sort of the poster

1016
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 3: boy for this movement. On one hand, the ten million

1017
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 3: dollar bag of cash. On the other, player empowerment, the

1018
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 3: game changing, having to stay and on the weird three

1019
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 3: sixty platform do that the gritty yeah, yeah, the gritty yeah,

1020
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 3: like it is changing. I'm curious to see how it

1021
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 3: goes for him. I suspect it will go well. He's

1022
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 3: got bottomless resources.

1023
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: But I can't wait. I can't wait.

1024
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 3: The coaching world has been forced to respond to this

1025
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 3: in a way that you know, I don't know. I

1026
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 3: really foresaw no, No, I.

1027
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: Think I think you're right. It's one that I know

1028
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: a lot of coaches are really uncomfortable with on the

1029
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: football side, and they're hesitant to say that in public,

1030
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: but it's true. And it's not just about what you

1031
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: have to do. It's recruiting. They one. The idea of

1032
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 1: constantly having to recruit your own roster is different because

1033
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: I think a common thing to do right is to

1034
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: gas somebody up when they're eighteen, and they kind of

1035
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: deprogram them a little bit right when they get on campus.

1036
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,280
Speaker 1: And now you realize that if you lead by fear

1037
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: or if you don't build those kind of relationships across

1038
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: your whole roster, everyone's gonna leave. You're gonna have a

1039
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 1: whole why situation, and like that doesn't work anymore. That's

1040
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 1: also true with how you might have talked about politics

1041
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: or or race. Uh. And you know, this was an

1042
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: issue for Orizaron right and one of the things that

1043
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: kind of led to things falling apart at LSU. And

1044
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: building those kind of competencies is hard for a lot

1045
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: of big time college football coaches. And this is this

1046
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: is not a value judgment here. It's just that that

1047
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: is a system that's tended to reward folks who have

1048
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 1: an almost sociopathic narrow mindedness into one like into one world, right,

1049
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: and they're they're not There's not a whole lot of

1050
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: people that are reading uh. You know what, we don't

1051
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: have my Gundy's watching and reading right, But there's not

1052
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: a lot of other people that are like are as

1053
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: we are as connected to to politics or to to

1054
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: to race, or to finance these other things that maybe

1055
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: they're going to have to to connect with their athletes.

1056
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: And so it's going to be fun to see who's

1057
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: comfortable making some of those changes, who will attempt and

1058
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 1: do it clumsily and we'll get those jokes off, but

1059
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 1: I think athletes will forgive them and who is completle,

1060
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: incapable of changing for anything. The Mike Leeches of the world,

1061
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: you know, like, come Heller high Water. This is exactly

1062
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: what I am and you know what I'm getting and

1063
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: I'm not changing. I don't know how it's going to

1064
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: work out, but it'll be fun for us all to watch,

1065
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: right Absolutely.

1066
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 2: I ask you this as somebody who has probably like

1067
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 2: seven different hands and seven different cookie jars in that

1068
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 2: you're invested in Ohio State football, you're invested in the

1069
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,280
Speaker 2: sport of football. You're invested in the business of football.

1070
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 2: You're invested in the business of college sports, but specific

1071
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 2: to football. And everybody has a different answer for this.

1072
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 2: How do you quantify the health of the sports? Some

1073
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: people will say TV ratings, Some people will say, you know,

1074
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 2: conference money payouts. Some people will say, you know, the

1075
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 2: ability of America to fall in love with a quarterback

1076
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 2: who's going to be taking number one overall, so right now,

1077
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 2: and my own answer is do I enjoy watching it

1078
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 2: as a TV show in that like, yes, hell yeah,

1079
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 2: I want to watch West Virginia, Texas Tech because those

1080
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 2: programs are entertaining, and this is a a sport driven

1081
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 2: by TV money. So it's just a matter of, well,

1082
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 2: I go out of my way to watch this game

1083
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 2: or as many games as I can. So to you,

1084
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,959
Speaker 2: how do you quantify a very strange sport, a very

1085
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 2: disparate sport in terms of overall health.

1086
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 1: That is a really man, I'm sorry if.

1087
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 2: That's just a very involved unanswer, this is a good one.

1088
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: I think my initial answer would be I would I

1089
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,359
Speaker 1: think I think it it's not extremely healthy, that there

1090
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: are some things about it that are still going strong,

1091
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: Like I think this as a pockets of this country

1092
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: are going to unconditionally low football totally forever. Right. You know,

1093
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: I grew up in one of one of those places.

1094
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: I know both of you have spent time in some

1095
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 1: of those places there too. But there's some warning signs, right.

1096
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 1: One of those is with just pure participation in football,

1097
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: which has been in decline almost everywhere in the country.

1098
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: It has been most pronounced in the PAC twelve footprint

1099
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 1: and in the Northeast in some places. Here here in Chicago,

1100
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 1: I wrote a big story about you know, this used

1101
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: to be one of you know, the Cook County was

1102
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: like Miami Dade for finding football recruits right a couple

1103
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: of decades ago. And whether that's population shift, whether that's

1104
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: a lack of adults to help run some of those

1105
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: youth leagues, whether that's concern about the health and safety

1106
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: of playing youth football, and and just pure cost. A

1107
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: lot of families aren't participating anymore. And I think for

1108
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: particularly for a lot of young men, you fall in

1109
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: love with football in part because you played it in

1110
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: seventh or eighth grade and you learned the kind of

1111
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 1: nuts and bolts of it. So that would be a

1112
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: concern not just for finding enough talent, but but for

1113
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: finding fans. I think the fact that students by and

1114
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: large are going to these games far less than they

1115
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 1: did a decade ago, and in most places in general,

1116
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: are facing declining attendance. I think I think that is

1117
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: an issue, and I think the governance of this sport

1118
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: is an issue. And by that I mean not just

1119
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: with the NCAA, and not just with Congress, but we've

1120
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: had a bunch of commissioner and ad changes over the

1121
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: last ten years, and the trust level within the people

1122
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: that have to govern this sport is maybe at an

1123
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 1: all time low, even with people in Delaney was somebody

1124
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of administrators would happily dogcuss

1125
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: behind closed doors. But they also knew that you know

1126
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: how to work with him and knew and were able

1127
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: to work through some of those things, and that really

1128
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: isn't happening right now. I think a lot to what

1129
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: we saw with the conversations about expanding the playoff, which

1130
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: is something that every Conference commissioner wants to do, and

1131
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: they weren't able to figure out a way around a

1132
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: couple of these important but not massive sticking points. And

1133
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: I think part of that is because right now they

1134
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: don't like each other. A lot of them straight up

1135
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: don't like each other. So if they're unable to come

1136
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: to a good agreement on something they all want to do,

1137
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: what's going to happen when they got to come to

1138
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: agreements and stuff they don't all want to do, which

1139
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: is what the next six months are. So I look

1140
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 1: at all of those things and think there's some big

1141
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 1: problems to say nothing of Congress, or to say nothing

1142
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 1: of the courts, or we know about CTE. There's there's

1143
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: there's things to be excited about. Like I, honest to God,

1144
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 1: look at NIL and think this might make me like

1145
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: college football more. Think of all the the great memes

1146
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna get right, think think of Think of of

1147
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: of how this is going to improve the lives of athletes,

1148
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 1: Think about how this is going to help me get

1149
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 1: to know people in a deeper way than before. But

1150
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:25,240
Speaker 1: I have some concerns and and I'm not necessarily sure

1151
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: that the people who are responsible for finding solutions to

1152
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: those problems are best equipped to do that right now.

1153
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 2: One of the interesting things about the sport, and Ty

1154
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,280
Speaker 2: and I talked about this in Bowl season with opt

1155
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,399
Speaker 2: out specifically, but I think it goes deeper than opt

1156
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 2: outs is college football is a really hard sport to

1157
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: get into.

1158
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 1: Right.

1159
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 2: The barrier to entry for college football and it's not unique.

1160
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 2: I compared it to like the EPL and transfer windows,

1161
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,359
Speaker 2: and you can buy players, but you have to return them,

1162
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 2: and there's there's a separate league you play in if

1163
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 2: you're also good Like it's it's just complicated. Some sports

1164
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,240
Speaker 2: are just complicated and difficult to get into. College football

1165
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 2: has positioned itself as a national sport. It wants to

1166
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 2: compete with the NFL, the NBA, Major League Baseball, the NHL,

1167
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 2: the MLS, whatever, which are easier sports to follow, because

1168
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 2: inherently they have athletes who can play for fifteen years.

1169
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 2: The best athletes can become famous in household names. And

1170
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,919
Speaker 2: you're like, I don't care what team Lebron James plays for.

1171
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 2: I love rooting against Lebron. I'm gonna watch Lebron games

1172
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 2: to hate on him or whatever. You can't do that

1173
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 2: in college football. And now we have a sport in

1174
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 2: which I'm speaking on behalf of the sport. We want

1175
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 2: mainstream eyeballs, but we're making it extremely difficult via recruiting,

1176
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 2: via transfers, via coaches leaving, via nil rules, via opt

1177
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 2: outs ahead of huge games like Pitt had a Heisman

1178
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 2: caliber quarterback who decided not to play in the biggest

1179
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 2: game of pit season. Like, that's just a reality, and

1180
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 2: whether you like it or not, that's a reality of

1181
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 2: the sport. Is the difficulty of being a national or

1182
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 2: regional or local college football fan sure or a bug

1183
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 2: at this point.

1184
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm like as into the weeds as almost

1185
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 1: anybody as you're going to find. But like this, it's

1186
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 1: funny because this is a thought experiment I do all

1187
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: the time because like, my wife is not a college

1188
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: football fan, her family are not college football fans, and

1189
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: most of the people like in my world and here

1190
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: in Chicago are not that way. So what like I

1191
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: try to think here one This is why I think

1192
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: about this all the time when I'm writing, because even

1193
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 1: I'm really getting in the weeds about stuff like is

1194
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: this something I can explain to my father in law

1195
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: and have his eyes not glaze over in the first

1196
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: forty five seconds? And if I can't, then great, Like

1197
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 1: then I've got an actual story.

1198
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 3: That's how we used to That's how we used to

1199
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 3: approach podcasting, trying and explain to people what is it?

1200
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah, so and that is an issue, and that

1201
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: is something I would think about if my job was

1202
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: to sell college football. I think there are some schools

1203
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: that are getting better at this and trying to find, well,

1204
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: what are ways we can do to make all of

1205
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 1: this ecosystem more accessible? You know, Like it's funny like this,

1206
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: this might be like a superficial thing. I think. I

1207
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: think Lafayette was a school. When I first started doing

1208
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: extra points, I did this, Well, this is the Louisiana Lafayette.

1209
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 1: And they're telling me, like one of our goals is,

1210
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: and this is a culture that understands football is we

1211
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: want to be the cheapest restaurant in Lafayette on game days.

1212
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 1: So we're going to offer dollar tall boys and we're

1213
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: gonna we're going to price our concessions cheaper than local

1214
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: high schools, and we're going to fly at every community

1215
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: center and every school and get people to come here

1216
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 1: and like, you know, you know the post I was

1217
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 1: talking like, listen, South Louisiana. We are professional drinkers, so

1218
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: we can give dollar tall boys and it's not going

1219
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: to be an issue. But our thing here is let's

1220
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: get everybody we possibly can to see this, to see

1221
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: the marching band, to see students, to to to see

1222
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: the wonderful South Louisiana tailgate experience, and we can get

1223
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: them to fall in love with it later and at

1224
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 1: what once once they see that. I've talked to people

1225
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 1: at Nevada or you know, Reno is a city that's

1226
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 1: changing an awful lot right now, and they're like, what

1227
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: we're doing is we are We're calling up every realtor

1228
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: we know and we're get giving them two free tickets

1229
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: to every new home that's sold in Reno to get

1230
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: the new people to come in and hope you fall

1231
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 1: in love with that. And I think that might be

1232
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: part of what you have to do because for as

1233
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: much as the in person experience, we can talk about

1234
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 1: how TV makes that more challenging and maybe it's not

1235
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 1: the same as it used to be, but the most

1236
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 1: compelling way to get people to see beyond recruiting rankings

1237
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: and transfer windows and rivalry trophies that we invented in

1238
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen and their bronze monopoly pieces or whatever, I

1239
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 1: think you just got to get people in the building.

1240
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 1: Because if you get people in the building and you

1241
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 1: see the brick and on the campus and you hear

1242
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 1: the marching band, it's cool and that helps you work

1243
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: through some of those things. So that is an issue

1244
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: you have to solve. The fact that this is so

1245
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 1: unique is a selling point that it's so provincial and

1246
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 1: that's local. Yeah, I think that's the very best part

1247
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 1: about college football, and it's finding ways to overcome that

1248
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 1: barrier to make it accessible is is a challenge. But

1249
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: it's that way with other things too. Like I feel

1250
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 1: like I've been saying I could really get into hockey

1251
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: like every year the last like five years. I think

1252
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: that's a place that has a high barriered jury right totally,

1253
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,439
Speaker 1: and I've been scared off a little bit. Maybe maybe

1254
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 1: eventually it'll make it, it'll make it happen, But like that,

1255
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: that's something that people have to do with for sure.

1256
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 3: Well, it's it's minor league baseball.

1257
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's minor league baseball. But

1258
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: also with like one hundred and ten years of lore, yes, yeah,

1259
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 1: they'll never have the same emotional connection to a minor

1260
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 1: league team as they will to a place they've got

1261
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 1: hanging up in their in their room, you know.

1262
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 3: Final question, perhaps the most important question. On our last episode,

1263
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 3: Dan and I were theorizing how we could sponsor an

1264
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 3: Instagram post for Zach Calzada Zach Calzada transfer quarterback. He's

1265
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 3: got thirty five thousand Instagram followers. What exactly is the

1266
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 3: process by which a small business, which is what we are,

1267
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 3: a very small business, would go about trying to find

1268
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 3: an endorsement social media or otherwise in the current climate.

1269
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this was why I did these deals for

1270
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: extra points, and I hope to do much bigger deals

1271
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: for extra points. I think later this spring or summer. Right,

1272
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: I did a bunch of deals for like two hundred bucks,

1273
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty bucks plus commissions for athletes, and

1274
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 1: now I'm like, maybe it makes more sense to find

1275
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 1: the right athlete and do like two or three grand.

1276
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 1: But what you would do if you're a business, The

1277
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 1: easiest way, besides trying to brokerage straight on Twitter, would

1278
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: be to set up an account on a marketplace. And

1279
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of them open doors, market price, mogul,

1280
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 1: no cap, I can even you know, I can DM you.

1281
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 1: I have a list of all of these right and

1282
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 1: for most of the Bronxton time for brands, it's free

1283
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: to sign up and it works kind of like Facebook Marketplace.

1284
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 1: You would you would give some information about your company.

1285
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: You would explain this is what I'm looking for for

1286
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: my campaign. Maybe two Instagram posts and maybe a podcast

1287
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: appearance or two Instagram posts, and could you take a

1288
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: picture of you wearing a solid verbal T shirt or

1289
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 1: something right, and you would list all of your information

1290
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: and your budget, and you can make that budget a

1291
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 1: flat rate. You can tie it to conversions, you could

1292
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 1: tie it to a couple other things, and I'd usually

1293
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 1: give a range, and then you could make it public.

1294
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: And you could either make it public and invite people

1295
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 1: to come pitch you, or other athletes will come and

1296
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: pitch you, which is what I did on a few

1297
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: of these marketplaces, or then you could you could say, hey,

1298
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 1: show me all of the athletes in this database who

1299
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: play this sport, who have followings in this range, who

1300
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 1: have like a budget specified by this I think. I

1301
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 1: think the best marketplaces will also let you sort by

1302
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: maybe major or hometown or more granular with what their

1303
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: what their audience looks like, and then they'll match you

1304
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 1: with people and you can directly reach out to them

1305
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: as well, just like you would if you are trying

1306
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 1: to hire somebody on a resume database or selling something

1307
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: on Craigslist. And then the way it typically works is

1308
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: you would begin the conversation on that platform, you might

1309
01:03:57,440 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 1: exchange phone numbers and then talk otherwise like you might

1310
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 1: tender I think, or I mean I can't confirm, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1311
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: I got married before all that became big. And then

1312
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: the way it typically works is then like the marketplace

1313
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 1: takes a commission off the value of the deal. So

1314
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: if you're going to pay an athlete one hundred and

1315
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: fifty bucks, you might put one hundred and seventy five

1316
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: bucks in escrow. The marketplace takes the twenty five dollars fee.

1317
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: The one hundred and fifty then goes to the athlete

1318
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 1: once you approve it. It really is pretty simple. And I

1319
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: would say for a company that's trying to drive awareness

1320
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 1: that is a college football show or a college show

1321
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 1: that talks about college athletes, I think it's a good idea.

1322
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 1: It becomes a little bit more complicated if you are

1323
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 1: like a beat writer, and I wouldn't recommend you pay

1324
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 1: for an interview that way, but for a podcast, I

1325
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 1: mean like that it would make sense. Many many others

1326
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 1: are doing that, and that is how you the best

1327
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 1: way I think you'd go about trying to find the

1328
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: right athlete.

1329
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 3: Good stuff, Good stuff, Matt, You've been doing your homework.

1330
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 3: I got to say, we always feel a little bit

1331
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 3: smarter when we have a chance to talk with you.

1332
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 3: So we've come a long way here in the last

1333
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 3: years since we last had this conversation. We will definitely

1334
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 3: have to do it more frequently as we get into

1335
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 3: the summer, get closer to the new season.

1336
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: But how can.

1337
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 3: Folks find your content? How can folks help support what

1338
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 3: you're doing at extra Points?

1339
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, thanks so much. Like I love this stuff.

1340
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 1: I know that not everybody else does. But if like

1341
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 1: this is the kind of thing that you're interested in

1342
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 1: reading or hearing more about. I publish a daily newsletter

1343
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: called extra Points. You can find it at extra points

1344
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 1: mb dot com. Two of those newsletters are free, three

1345
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 1: of them are behind a paywall. Cost typically cost eight

1346
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 1: bucks a month. But I'll set up a special solid

1347
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: verbal specific discount, right, Yeah, well I'll do this orry

1348
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: we're done recording here, right if you use say promo

1349
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 1: code solid verbal not twenty five percent off, so you

1350
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: can get it.

1351
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 2: From the boom.

1352
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 1: Thanks man, that's cool. But sure, yeah, so we'll get

1353
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 1: that for six bucks. You can put that in the notes.

1354
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 1: I also do a podcast with Brian Fisher called Going

1355
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: for Two, which is the same kind of stories that

1356
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 1: you might find it in a newsletter that's twice a week.

1357
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: You can find that wherever people get podcasts and I'm

1358
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Brown. Awesome.

1359
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 3: He came prepared, prepared as always, Matt Brown, a pleasure.

1360
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 3: We will have you on again sometime soon in the meantime,

1361
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 3: As we say here on the show, Stay solid.

1362
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 1: Thanks Pella, stay solid. Always a pleasure.

1363
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 3: Okay, yes, sir, there we go. Matt Brown generously setting

1364
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 3: up a discount for any of the ballers who are

1365
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 3: interested at extra points mb dot com Solid Verbal if

1366
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 3: you want to get your discounted rate on Matt's content.

1367
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 3: I don't even know where to start, man Like, he

1368
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 3: pretty much covered so much ground in an hour and

1369
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 3: answered so many of the questions that I had with

1370
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,439
Speaker 3: how this whole thing works. As you know, any new

1371
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 3: thing in life, if you don't understand it, people tend

1372
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 3: to be afraid of it. I don't know if I'm

1373
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 3: any less afraid of nil.

1374
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 2: Now I've spent the majority of the last two minutes

1375
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 2: of my life google options for Zach Calzado. Should he

1376
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 2: win the starting job at Auburn and sort of look

1377
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 2: like he did against Alabama and is a star quarterback?

1378
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 2: Is turning And we just had justin Ferguson on and receivers.

1379
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 2: The receiver group is an issue right now at Auburn.

1380
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 2: But if he's turning soso receivers or underrated receivers into

1381
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 2: stars and is making plays and winning big games, and

1382
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 2: it's just like a bona fide next great thing at Auburn.

1383
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 2: Don't know if it'll happen. I kind of think it

1384
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 2: might not, but you can never be too prepared. All Right,

1385
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 2: I have three options, and I'm not going to promote.

1386
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 2: I'm not going to promote for free a business in Auburn, Alabama.

1387
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 2: But you can get all of these things there. Okay,

1388
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 2: I'm saying, what if he does a Zach pack. Okay,

1389
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 2: a Zach pack at some sort of local fast food

1390
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 2: place because you've seen like KFC or the other day,

1391
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 2: Like these lunch deals are like popcorn, chicken, tater tots

1392
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 2: and a drink and a biscuit. So we have a

1393
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 2: Zach pack of his choosing. That makes sense. That's a

1394
01:07:58,880 --> 01:07:59,919
Speaker 2: fun thing to say, Zach.

1395
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: Sure.

1396
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 2: And then the other two are just more uh punny

1397
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 2: and stupid, but they are options that you can get

1398
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 2: in Auburn, Alabama. I'm talking about Calzada's enchiladas. That is

1399
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 2: a special combination. Maybe it's a red and green sauce,

1400
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 2: like a combination thing. Maybe it's an extra it's like

1401
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 2: a spicy shrimp that isn't normally offered at a place. Right,

1402
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 2: it's Calzadas Enchiladas, and you know he promotes it on

1403
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:26,679
Speaker 2: a local commercial Instagram or whatever. And my final offering

1404
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,960
Speaker 2: for Zach Calzada should he really pop in Auburn, Alabama,

1405
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 2: is Calzada's Calzona's and those are I apologize why at

1406
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 2: the local boat.

1407
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 3: Store for Calzada's Armada.

1408
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 2: Well, that's many boats, and I don't know how many

1409
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 2: people are.

1410
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:46,799
Speaker 3: Joinda Armada buy a boat from Bob's Boats.

1411
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:51,800
Speaker 2: That's true, but Armada is not as immediately recognizable a

1412
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 2: word as enchilada to me or Calzona, which is how

1413
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 2: I would shift it. And so he obviously gets to

1414
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:01,400
Speaker 2: pick the filling of this specialty item. And maybe it's

1415
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 2: you know, it's seven dollars and however many points Auburn

1416
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 2: scores that week, you know, something like that. But I

1417
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 2: just I think you got to get creative. I think

1418
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:11,680
Speaker 2: you got to get into it. And Auburn is a

1419
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 2: community and fan base that is all in on football.

1420
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 2: So Cal's ota is Calzona's. I'm ready to make it

1421
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:22,680
Speaker 2: a thing and be a creative director for the commercial

1422
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 2: if it comes to pass.

1423
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 3: I think we're positioning ourselves maybe not so much as

1424
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 3: the sponsor, right, but as the agent, as Matt described

1425
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,839
Speaker 3: as the as the creative body.

1426
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 2: He's got a great name. He's at a huge place.

1427
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 2: Cals OTAs Enchilada's cal's OTA's Calzona's.

1428
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 3: All right, get justin on the horn again. We got

1429
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 3: to find out the state of Mexican food in Auburn, Alabama.

1430
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:48,240
Speaker 3: That's true, that's where we're.

1431
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 2: I'm sure there are options. There have to be options

1432
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 2: everybody else Mexican food.

1433
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, Well again, please do go on out

1434
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 3: to Extra Points mb slash Solid Verbal if you're interested

1435
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 3: in more of Matt's well researched and thoughtful content, which

1436
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 3: he puts out on a regular continuing basis. We so

1437
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 3: very much appreciate the time that he gave us here

1438
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 3: today to help make us a little bit smarter with

1439
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,719
Speaker 3: respect to all things nil and just college business at large.

1440
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,599
Speaker 3: Don't forget if you are ever so inclined going out

1441
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 3: to Verballers dot com. That is our patreon. You can

1442
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 3: go on out there and access the bonus content that

1443
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:28,599
Speaker 3: we put out every Friday, The Bruin A. We answer

1444
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,640
Speaker 3: your questions. We answer your questions. Not only do we

1445
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 3: do that, but you get access to the video of

1446
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:37,360
Speaker 3: us chatting with Matt. You get access to the show early.

1447
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 3: You also get access to our discord server, which is

1448
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 3: still popping off Dan, even though it's the off season.

1449
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 2: Yep.

1450
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:46,599
Speaker 3: Still a great community of forballers. If you like the show,

1451
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 3: if you like college football, it's a cool place to

1452
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 3: hang out. And last but not least, follow us on

1453
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 3: social media if you have not already, so I have

1454
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 3: enjoy your time in sunny southern California.

1455
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:00,800
Speaker 2: And wait, by the way, we have a UH off

1456
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:04,600
Speaker 2: topic show too, right, that's part of the UH the

1457
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:08,400
Speaker 2: Verbalers dot Com exclusive. We're working monthly off topic. Yeah, yeah,

1458
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 2: we're working on it.

1459
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 1: We get weird.

1460
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 3: That's great for that guy over there, Dan Rubinsteine, for myself,

1461
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:16,719
Speaker 3: Tie Hilda Brandt.

1462
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 1: We will talk to you all very very soon. Beat

1463
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:22,840
Speaker 1: bays on peace. Yeah,