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Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, oh please, please please please Paul, keep

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Speaker 1: our laughter in here as we open this one. Fellow

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realists. This week's classic episode comes about due to

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Speaker 1: an amazing conversation we had with a close friend of

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Speaker 1: the show is basically a sibling of ours now, Lauren

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Speaker 1: vogel Baum, longtime host of Savor Eric in Shadows, brain Stuff,

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Speaker 1: several other things. Worked with me and you, Matt and

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Speaker 1: you Paul really closely. We're running our YouTube videos.

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Speaker 2: Makes an appearance in Thirteen Days of Halloween, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, well, yeah, you're right. And we also in those

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Speaker 1: halcyon days pre pandemic, we would hang out and just

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Speaker 1: shoot the breeze, shoot the beans. And I'll never forget

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Speaker 1: that one day I was walking by. I had a

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Speaker 1: crunch bar, candy crunch bar with me, you know, the

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Speaker 1: ones with the little rice in the chocolate.

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Speaker 2: I know, the one's the blue wrapper, Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, iconic.

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Speaker 1: And then our pal, our pal, Lauren V said, oh Nestley, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: And with that one, you see Neslie right on the

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Speaker 2: front with a lot of company's products. You don't really

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Speaker 2: notice the label because it's some other sub brand or something,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's the world's largest food and beverage company,

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Speaker 1: or was it twenty eighteen when we decided to ask

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Speaker 1: the question, why do so many people hate Nesli? Why

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Speaker 1: has this one gigantic, gargantuan company been accused of so

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Speaker 1: many conspiracies? We found the answer.

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Speaker 2: And here it is in the form of a podcast episode.

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Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 3: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, and our trustee co host Nol

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Speaker 1: is on the road on an adventure. All will be

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Speaker 1: revealed in time, I believe, is the party line.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's on the road on an adventure, just still

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Speaker 2: a couple of feet away.

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Speaker 1: From us, right Exactly Who am I? They call me? Ben?

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Speaker 1: We are joined with our super producer Paul Mission Control Deca.

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Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you? You are here that makes

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Speaker 1: this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Wait, Ben, there's somebody else in the room too.

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Speaker 1: You're right, Matt, your spider sense is, as always disturbingly accurate.

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Speaker 1: We are not delving into today's topic alone, are we Matt.

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Speaker 2: No, we are not. Today we are joined by Lauren

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Speaker 2: Vogelbaum that you may know from Savor brain Stuff. Oh

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Speaker 2: my gosh, so many And if you are not already aware,

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Speaker 2: Saveror is the new version of what was once food Stuff.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yes, it's essentially the same show, but now we

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Speaker 4: go on the road sometimes and talk to actual human

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Speaker 4: people aside from ourselves. We're mostly human people about food

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Speaker 4: and culture and science and how all those things work

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Speaker 4: together and why we eat the way that we eat.

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Speaker 2: It's an awesome new thing experience to listen to Savor.

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Speaker 2: Just hearing you in places, it's been a whole lot

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Speaker 2: of fun as a listener. Just wanted to say that

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Speaker 2: on Mike.

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Speaker 4: Oh, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: And we defer to you, Lauren fairly often in this

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Speaker 1: show when something food related comes up. That's why we

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Speaker 1: asked you to come here today.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, oh you didn't just want to hang out?

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Speaker 1: Well that too for sure, Yeah, yeah, I mean mostly Yeah, it's.

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Speaker 2: Mostly hanging out. And then you're going to know more

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Speaker 2: stuff about this than we do. Maybe.

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Speaker 4: Actually, definitely, I believe you entirely.

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed that, enjoyed that strange shrug. Lorden you have

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Speaker 1: been on the show in the past before you have

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Speaker 1: joined us for an exploration of the diamond industry.

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Speaker 4: Oh right, yeah, specifically not food related that one. But

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Speaker 4: but yeah, who, I'm still mad about diamonds.

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Speaker 2: You may notice that there's a reoccurring theme here. We

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Speaker 2: bring you on for terribly depressing things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's why when you said hang out, I was

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Speaker 1: a little taken aback. Yeah, at this point, you you

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Speaker 1: pretty much know the score.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I mean hypothetically. I did some of the

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Speaker 4: research here anyway.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, one of these well, I mean, one of

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Speaker 1: these episodes one day maybe will be a fun and

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Speaker 1: delightful one.

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Speaker 4: Do you guys do fun and delightful episodes?

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Speaker 2: We did all the time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, nope, you just never invited me.

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Speaker 1: I see, yeah, no, we do. But we are so

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Speaker 1: glad that you are here today, especially because we are

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Speaker 1: catching you right before you take another trip for sav.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, tomorrow, I'm flying out to New Orleans with

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Speaker 4: newser Dylan uh and my co Danny, and we're gonna

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Speaker 4: we're gonna eat and drink some stuff. We're gonna talk

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Speaker 4: to some people about it.

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Speaker 2: I'm so jealous. That is some of my favorite food

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Speaker 2: that exists on the planet.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I can't eat bell peppers, so it's gonna be

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Speaker 4: rough going for me. But it's gonna be just all right.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna just make up for it in cocktails.

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Speaker 1: You can also get your own parade, which I know

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Speaker 1: I keep telling, keep telling everyone. Don't blow up the

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Speaker 1: spot if you list if you live in New Orleans

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Speaker 1: and you don't know about this, but it's not that

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Speaker 1: expensive to pay outside of Marty Gross season, to pay

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Speaker 1: a band to do a parade for you, and you

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Speaker 1: get to walk in the front or I guess wherever

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Speaker 1: you want at that point.

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Speaker 2: Impromptu parades with only two hand grenades. So that's all.

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Speaker 2: That's the maximum amount of hand grenades you can have

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Speaker 2: in one night. I'm telling you that's a drink, right, yes, no,

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Speaker 2: not physical weapons, right you guys. Today we are talking

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Speaker 2: about a major company that most people know about. They

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Speaker 2: are the creators of such foods for cats and dogs

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Speaker 2: as alpo benefol and fancy Feast.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. Today we are exploring the disarming

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Speaker 1: and perhaps surprising story of a company called Nessli. But

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Speaker 1: that's not all they've created.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm you know, candy from kit Kats to Butterfingers,

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Speaker 4: coffee brands like Taster's Choice, nest Cafe, Coffee Mate, and

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Speaker 4: Starbucks packaged coffees, baking products from Libby's incarnation, frozen infrigerated

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Speaker 4: foods like Stofers, California Pizza Kitchen, Hot Pockets, Line Cuisine

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Speaker 4: and Dejiorno and Tombstone, desert brands like Hogandaws, Eaties, Skinny Cow,

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Speaker 4: Boost and Power Bar, nutritional supplements, Gerber Baby Foods, Purina

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Speaker 4: pet Foods, and they have a thirty percent ownership of Laorel,

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Speaker 4: including cosmetics brands like Garnia, the Body Shop and Mabelene

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Speaker 4: and perfume lines from Ralph Lauren, Giorgio Armani and Eve

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Speaker 4: Saint Laurent.

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Speaker 1: Wow. And that's nowhere near all of it.

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Speaker 2: Did we hit Perrier and San Pellogrino.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't even mention the water right right water.

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Speaker 1: There are multiple brands of water as well. This company

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Speaker 1: cast a large, not entirely sugary shadow. You know, for

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Speaker 1: a lot of us in the US, we associate NESTLEI

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Speaker 1: with maybe like nest Cafe or a Nestle crunched candy bar.

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Speaker 1: But every single thing that Matt and Lauren just named

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Speaker 1: is owned by Nestle. There's so much more to the story.

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Speaker 1: Nestlei is huge. It's gargantuan. It is like, ah, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to ruin the surprise yet, but it's big.

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Speaker 1: Let's just go with that.

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Speaker 2: It's like the Facebook of foods.

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Speaker 1: You know what. That is disturbingly accurate, But this is true.

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Speaker 1: When Nesli first started out, they only made one thing,

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Speaker 1: one real breakthrough. It was condensed milk and baby formula.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which was massively important, and that's why it became

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Speaker 2: such a big company. They started in a place which

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Speaker 2: was a good place to start babies.

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Speaker 1: Right right, just like Wu Tang, nesle was for the kids.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So here's us, like, here's a terrible joke that we

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Speaker 1: weren't proud of, but we're going to do anyway. Matt,

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Speaker 1: would you like to do the condensed history of Neslei

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Speaker 1: grown because it's condensed like the milk? Yes, okay, milk.

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Speaker 4: Wait, we saw what you did there.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this joke only gets better the more

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Speaker 1: that we try to over explain it.

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Speaker 2: Let it hang there. Yeah, So Neslei is named for

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Speaker 2: its primary food wizard on Ree. Nestlei He was born

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Speaker 2: August tenth, eighteen fourteen, on ree Neslei. Begins his career

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Speaker 2: as a pharmacist's assistant before moving to Switzerland and qualifying

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Speaker 2: to practice as a pharmacist and chemist. So that's pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: He moves on to become a pharmacist and chemist. That's

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Speaker 2: a great job to have. Sure, that's chemist, that's cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was a This was a much broader

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Speaker 1: term back in the eighteen hundreds, right, A chemist could

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Speaker 1: be mixing any sort of thing, you know, an agglomeration

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Speaker 1: of potions. For Henri, one of his primary focuses was

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Speaker 1: always food science. He experimented with other stuff like cement,

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Speaker 1: which hopefully was not a food experiment, but he also

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Speaker 1: experiment with lemonade, cooking oils. Eventually he moves towards this

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Speaker 1: idea of condensed milk or some sort of replacement for

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Speaker 1: breast milk for nursing parents. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Condensed milk was developed by Gail Borden, Yes, that Borden

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Speaker 4: in the United States in the eighteen fifties and was

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Speaker 4: hugely important in feeding Civil War troops.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird because nowadays I don't know about everyone.

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Speaker 1: I can't speak for everyone. But nowadays condensed milk seems

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Speaker 1: like it has a bit of a niche, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. It's not super widespread. No one's going

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Speaker 1: to a restaurant and saying, you know, I'll have the

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Speaker 1: number three with condensed milk to drink.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well it's it was a much needed for

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Speaker 2: a lot of people at the time.

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Speaker 4: Sure, you know, these days, I think it's mostly a

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Speaker 4: baking ingredient. You're buying sweet and condensed milk to put

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Speaker 4: in like a pumpkin pie or something like that. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, this was back in the what like eighteen sixties,

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Speaker 4: eighteen seventies. This was before refrigeration technology was a thing,

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Speaker 4: and it was also a time when industrialization was on

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Speaker 4: the rise, and along with that this increase in concern

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Speaker 4: about food purity. You know, more people were moving into

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Speaker 4: cities away from sources of fresh foods, more foods were

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Speaker 4: being manufactured, but regulations had not been set up yet.

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Speaker 4: And there was also this religiously influenced temperance movement or

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Speaker 4: a series of movements going on in both America and

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Speaker 4: Europe where people were thinking harder about what they put

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Speaker 4: in their bodies. So, like all of this led to

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Speaker 4: this thing where condensed milk being marketed and to be

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Speaker 4: fair generally created to be safe and long lasting, and

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Speaker 4: so they were considered good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah products, right, yeah, because it's dependable too, it's consistent,

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Speaker 1: which I think was a huge deal. So in eighteen

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Speaker 1: sixty seven, just like a year after saying I'm going

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Speaker 1: to work with condensed milk, Nesley develops this milk based

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Speaker 1: baby food that he calls faurine lechti, which is I'm

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Speaker 1: woefully mispronouncing that it means flour with milk in English,

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Speaker 1: so it's cow's milk, wheat, flour and sugar to you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess sweeten the whole contraption. And as we know,

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Speaker 1: whenever you hear stories about inventors or inventions, it's usually

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Speaker 1: pretty difficult to pin an entire invention on a single person.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there were two or three people who

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Speaker 4: were developing a very similar product around the same time,

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Speaker 4: first in the form of a liquid condensed food, and

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Speaker 4: then very shortly afterwards in terms of like a powdered

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Speaker 4: condensed food.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And we remember Nesle as a pioneer of

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Speaker 1: baby formula because this baby formula was a catalyst for

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Speaker 1: his company, really propelled the growth of the entire operation Nesley. Originally,

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Speaker 1: according to the story, Nesley develops this because he knows

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Speaker 1: that some new mothers cannot breastfeed or some infants cannot

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Speaker 1: be breastfed for one reason or another, and this invention,

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Speaker 1: if he can get it off the ground, will help

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Speaker 1: mitigate the cartoonishly high infant mortality rates of the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, things were bad for infants back then. And this

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Speaker 2: is a real thing where once children, once very young children,

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Speaker 2: start eating any formula of this kind, it's very very

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Speaker 2: difficult for them to get back onto like a breast

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Speaker 2: milk or something if you're trying to switch back. I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying this is a terrible they need a great

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Speaker 2: thing to stop babies from dying, but it also creates

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Speaker 2: this whole other problem that we're going to maybe talk

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Speaker 2: about a little bit later on.

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Speaker 4: Sure. Yeah, and there's also the issue of once a

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Speaker 4: mother stops producing milk for her infant because of the

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Speaker 4: switch to a formula, then it's hard for her to

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Speaker 4: kickstart it again. And previous to this technology, to this

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Speaker 4: food technology being invented, your only recourse if you couldn't

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Speaker 4: personally breastfeed your child was to hire a wet nurse,

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Speaker 4: and of course that's not a thing that everyone had

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Speaker 4: financial access.

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Speaker 2: To, and this would be essentially someone who breastfeeds your

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Speaker 2: baby for you, right.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, absolutely, you can see how difficult that would

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Speaker 1: be for a ton of people in this area in Switzerland,

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Speaker 1: but also throughout the world, most people, I think it's

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Speaker 1: safe to say most people. And in eighteen seventy five,

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Speaker 1: sales are taking off. He's doing super well, gangbusters. Neslei

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Speaker 1: sells his company and his factory to three local businessmen

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Speaker 1: who aggressively expand both the research and the sales departments.

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Speaker 1: Around this time, even before that expansion, Neslei products are

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Speaker 1: sold everywhere from Indonesia to Argentina, again a globe supply chain, which,

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Speaker 1: as you point out, Lauren, is super difficult to pull

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Speaker 1: off without refrigeration or planes. They're just I guess going

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Speaker 1: by boat, huh, and train probably rail. But where's the

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Speaker 1: chocolate you're wondering? Right? Possibly. In eighteen seventy nine, Nesley

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Speaker 1: merges with Daniel Peter, who is arguably the inventor of

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Speaker 1: milk chocolate. I mean, at least he's the one who

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Speaker 1: gets the credit for it.

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Speaker 4: Right before then, they had been selling some of their

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Speaker 4: condensed milk products to that guy, and that's kind of

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Speaker 4: how his milk chocolate business started off. And it's kind

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Speaker 4: of rolled up into each other.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which makes sense. That's the way a lot of

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Speaker 1: business relationships tend to.

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Speaker 2: Go, right. So thank you Daniel Peter for milk chocolate.

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Speaker 1: I think it's weird that you have two first names,

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Speaker 1: but yes, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Hey, some of us just have that affliction.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Oh Matt, I'm so sorry. I just realized that.

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Speaker 1: I guess it feels normal because we hang out all

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Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, but Daniel Peter, it's just it's a

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Speaker 1: weird name. It's the name I would use as a

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Speaker 1: fake name. So my profound apologies if you if I

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Speaker 1: have made you feel slighted. My old friend, h Daniel

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Speaker 1: Peter did some great stuff. He you know, invented milk chocolate.

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Speaker 1: People generally like.

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Speaker 2: That because of him. Kitkats exist, Yes, they're delicious, they're great.

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Speaker 1: The Japanese ones farms, the green.

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Speaker 2: Tea one was so much better than I thought it

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Speaker 2: would be.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got some banana ones in my desk right now.

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Speaker 4: They're life changing.

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Speaker 1: I see you also like to live dangerously If they're

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Speaker 1: the could I could I try one after this? Awesome?

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Speaker 1: So in nineteen oh five, Nestley, or the company founded

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Speaker 1: rather merges with an outfit called the Anglo Swisk and

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Speaker 1: Denseed Milk Company, and they form what is now known

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Speaker 1: as the Nestley Group. They have a bunch of mergers

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Speaker 1: and name changes, but today we call them NESTLEI s A.

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Speaker 1: They are the world's largest fast moving consumer goods company

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Speaker 1: in terms of revenue. They make a ton of money.

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Speaker 2: Yes, get this. In twenty seventeen there was a total

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Speaker 2: revenue for Nestle SA the actual name of the company

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Speaker 2: now of ninety point eight billion dollars with a B.

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Speaker 1: Holy Crapola's a that's a lot of kitcats.

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Speaker 2: Saw those dejornos?

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Speaker 4: Oh, so it's partially my fault.

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Speaker 1: They are still headquartered in Switzerland. They employ over three

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand people. They own more than two thousand different brands.

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Speaker 1: If you shop in a mainstream grocery store, you'll probably

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Speaker 1: buy more Nestley stuff than you think. They also own

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Speaker 1: almost five hundred factories in countries across the world. Their

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Speaker 1: most popular products are powdered and liquid beverages still, which

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Speaker 1: I think is interesting. And this is the point where

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Speaker 1: we have to encounter ethics and philosophy for a second,

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Speaker 1: because we'll often hear pop philosophers say that, you know,

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Speaker 1: at the heart of every fortune lay some great crime,

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Speaker 1: and that's not something you could really prove. But there's

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Speaker 1: an argument people make that says, no company or individual

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Speaker 1: can attain this much financial success without at some point

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Speaker 1: along the way engaging in unethical or at the very

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Speaker 1: least controversial activity. And Nessley's no different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a lot of critics of this company

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Speaker 2: that exist that you will find online especially, and these

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Speaker 2: criticisms don't just come from people who disagree with the

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Speaker 2: company's strategies. They're investment strategies. There is a very deep

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Speaker 2: and dark rabbit hole that we're about to go down. People.

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Speaker 2: Right after a quick word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Nesley is accused of a

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Speaker 1: ton of dastardly activities around the planet. The first one,

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Speaker 1: which might be surprising to some people familiar to others,

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Speaker 1: is Nesley's Neslei's water business.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you've seen neslie Water bottled water, probably somewhere near

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Speaker 2: a grocery store, in a grocery store at a and

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Speaker 2: you may have also seen San Pellogrino or Perrier. They're

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Speaker 2: sparkling versions somewhere on the shelves.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. In two thousand and five, a documentary called We

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Speaker 1: Feed the World came out.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's a little pompous, but that's okay.

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Speaker 1: And it featured the CEO of NESLEI at the time,

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Speaker 1: a guy named Peter brabeck Lemete, and he made this

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Speaker 1: observation that became infamous and went viral, and we have

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Speaker 1: the quote today, net would you want to do the honors?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely. Water is, of course the most important raw

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Speaker 2: material we have today in the world. It's a question

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Speaker 2: of whether we should privatize the normal water supply for

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Speaker 2: the population. And there are two different opinions on the matter.

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Speaker 2: One opinion, which I think is extreme, is represented by

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Speaker 2: the NGOs non governmental organizations, who bang on about declaring

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Speaker 2: water a public right. That means that as a human being,

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Speaker 2: you should have a right to water. That's an extreme solution.

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Speaker 2: The other view says that water is a food stuff

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Speaker 2: like any other and like any other food stuff, it

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Speaker 2: should have a market value. Personally, I believe it's better

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Speaker 2: to give a food stuff of value so that we're

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Speaker 2: all aware it has a price, and then that one

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Speaker 2: should take specific measures for the part of the population

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Speaker 2: that has no access to this water. And there are

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Speaker 2: many different possibilities there. I added a little emphasis in there,

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Speaker 2: but you can hear how sinister that could sound.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the evil is there. I don't think.

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Speaker 2: All these NGOs trying to make water a public right.

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Speaker 1: A lot of Nesley critics interpreted this as an attack

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Speaker 1: on the poor, attack on community suffering from drought and

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Speaker 1: other people in the margins of society who cannot afford

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Speaker 1: to pay this quote market price for water.

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Speaker 4: He did walk the statement back a little bit in

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Speaker 4: twenty thirteen after this public outcry. As you can possibly imagine,

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Speaker 4: he said. He said in a YouTube video that Nesley released,

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Speaker 4: I have always supported the human right to water. Everyone

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Speaker 4: should have enough safe, clean water to meet their fundamental

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Speaker 4: daily needs, but not to fill a pool or wash

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Speaker 4: a car water. And then he talked for a minute

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Speaker 4: about how it's a very precious resource and how we're

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Speaker 4: kind of running out or I mean, you know how

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Speaker 4: there's different areas that don't have a lot of back

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Speaker 4: to it and any furthermore, said water should be better managed,

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Speaker 4: should be better valued. If we give water value, there

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Speaker 4: will be incentive to invest in looking after our supply.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can see the logic. He's not he's

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Speaker 1: not really changing the content of what he's saying. He's

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Speaker 1: framing it in a different way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Ultimately, he's saying, we got to respect water enough

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Speaker 2: that it's valuable enough that we're not going to pollute

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Speaker 2: it too bad.

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Speaker 1: And I've heard I've heard similar arguments advanced about human life.

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Speaker 2: Oh, if there's enough of a value, we should value

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Speaker 2: that as well.

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Speaker 1: If we're assigning value to things.

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Speaker 2: I mean, come on, that's that whole idea of selling

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Speaker 2: bullets for more than a gun, right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if we can't sell bullets in people, then

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Speaker 4: really what are we doing?

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Speaker 1: Here's no keep it. We do want to be clear,

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Speaker 1: that was not a quote from the CEO, right, No, no, no.

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Speaker 4: No, that was just my own sarcas sarcasm. So goodness,

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Speaker 4: they don't know me here.

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Speaker 1: So this it's interesting too because there's a little bit

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Speaker 1: of double think or a paradox here in that Nesley

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Speaker 1: has a successful bottled water business because they are treating

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Speaker 1: water as a public good by extracting it from land

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Speaker 1: lease agreements where they just have access to the resources

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Speaker 1: on the land, so they're not putting a huge value

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Speaker 1: on it on their side. The value changes depending on

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Speaker 1: their profit margin.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: But they're the world's largest supplier of bottled water.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, seven percent of their sales come from bottled water.

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Speaker 1: That's about seven point seven billion worldwide in recent years.

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Speaker 2: And seven point seven billion dollars worth of bottled.

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Speaker 4: Water just from them. Yeah, for kind of scope. I

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Speaker 4: don't have a number for the whole world worth of

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Speaker 4: the water industry, the bottled water industry, but just in

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Speaker 4: the United States it was worth eighteen point five billion

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Speaker 4: dollars in twenty seventeen and was growing.

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Speaker 1: And now they own what sixty four different bottled water

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Speaker 1: brands across the planet. The big question is, oh, no, no,

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Speaker 1: we got to say these, Okay, name them.

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Speaker 2: We got to say these because you're drinking these. You

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Speaker 2: might have one in your hand right now. Deer Park

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Speaker 2: guilty on my hand. Poland Spring also guilty. Aquapana not

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Speaker 2: so much. San Pellegrino, sure, Perier sometimes, but only when

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling fancy springs, water park, and water line.

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Speaker 1: I would add to that pure life, which is huge

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Speaker 1: in other countries. So where do they get all this water?

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Speaker 1: It turns out that they're taking it from you if

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Speaker 1: you are the resident of many rural communities across the US,

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Speaker 1: in Brazil, in Bangladesh, in Pakistan, in Europe. But how ben,

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you asked, Matt. Thank you. They similar

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Speaker 1: to the Daniel day Lewis character, and there will be blood.

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Speaker 1: They're drinking your milkshake. They're they're buying up areas that

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Speaker 1: give them access to groundwater or springs, and they're using

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Speaker 1: that to they're using that to fill the bottles. But

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Speaker 1: as they're draining these aquifers, they're moving the water away

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Speaker 1: from where it would have naturally existed.

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Speaker 2: That's it's a it's such a perfect example there the

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Speaker 2: Daniel day Lewis character from There will be blood because

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Speaker 2: these aquifers are so massive underneath the land where people

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Speaker 2: are walking around on all day you don't realize that

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Speaker 2: they're down there. But if if you can put you know,

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Speaker 2: a series of pipes down into the aquifer at one

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Speaker 2: point in this massive space of water, you could just

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Speaker 2: suck it right up, like that milkshake. It's such a

433
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 2: good it's it's perfect and terrible.

434
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: And real. And to add to that, the company is

435
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 1: so large that they have they have acquired a tremendous

436
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 1: amount of influence, especially in smaller communities. We don't know

437
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 1: exactly how much water they've been extracting with this method,

438
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: but in twenty fifteen, some journalists found that Nessley had

439
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: been illegally draining water from lands that were leased by

440
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: the Marongo Band of Mission Indians in a desert area,

441
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: and they'd also been taking water from the San Bernardino

442
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: National Force. They did have a permit to do this.

443
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: It expired in nineteen eighty eight.

444
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: Oops.

445
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: Is that just? Is that? Is that just something that

446
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: got overlooked because it's a huge operation?

447
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 4: Well, I mean also another number related to that instance,

448
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 4: they had been paying five hundred and twenty four dollars

449
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 4: a year to extract about thirty million gallons of water.

450
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: There, wow, including during the drought. So you can already

451
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: see how this profit margin is going to work out

452
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: right right that An independent analysis put the total water

453
00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: extraction at one billion gallons per year over time. And

454
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 1: if we think about how many bottles of water, that

455
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: is right, Is it twelve ounce bottle of water? Sixteen

456
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: ounces something like that?

457
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 4: Sure, yeah, something like that.

458
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: Sure those sound like numbers. Yeah, so we can see

459
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: just how little they would be pain even with the

460
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: cost of transportation and infrastructure, how little they're pain to

461
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: produce these, right.

462
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 4: And I did want to put in here that, like,

463
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 4: while we can all agree that drinking bottled water is

464
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 4: better for our health than drinking bottled soda, the marketing

465
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 4: of bottled water as safer or healthier than tap water

466
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 4: for the general population is and this is a scientific term,

467
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 4: a bunch of hohoey. The stuff was safer in the

468
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 4: eighteenth and nineteenth centuries for like people in cities who

469
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 4: didn't want cholera or typhoid or dysentery. And then later,

470
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 4: of course, in the nineteen eighties, when the EPA found

471
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 4: a lot of lead and a lot of drinking water,

472
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 4: but like these problems were fixable. Health movements in the

473
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 4: early twentieth century created free, filtered chlorinated water for many

474
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 4: developed cities, removing concerns of disease, and in most part

475
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 4: cities rushed to solve the lead issues. In the eighties

476
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 4: and nineties.

477
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 2: But they put fluoride in the water instead.

478
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 4: They do I'm sure that's a whole other episode that

479
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 4: I'm sure you guys have done more than once.

480
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: It's fine, don't worry about it.

481
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 4: But okay, So, bottled water has roots in health and

482
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 4: purity movements of the eighteen hundreds, kind of like I

483
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 4: was talking about earlier. Folks then started selling bottled water

484
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 4: from places like Saratoga Springs like to rich.

485
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 2: People, mostly because there's cache right right.

486
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's like, oh, this is fancy mineral water

487
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 4: and it's naturally carbonated because we don't have good carbonation

488
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 4: technology yet, so oooh, drink it and it's healthy and stuff.

489
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 4: But I don't know why. My ghost voice is also

490
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 4: my true anyway. But yeah, so mostly it wasn't a

491
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 4: thing among people. Bottled water was not a thing among

492
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 4: people who did have another choice until the nineteen seventies,

493
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 4: and that's when pet Plastic went commercial and Perrier started

494
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 4: sponsoring athletic events like the New York City Marathon in

495
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 4: order to push the healthfulness of their water. Even today,

496
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 4: with the aging infrastructure problems like we have in Flint

497
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 4: and on Canada's First Nations reserves. The majority of marketing

498
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 4: of bottled water is bent to that like health purity image,

499
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 4: Like what should be an emergency solution for temporarily unsafe

500
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 4: water is being sold as a lifestyle.

501
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: Now you get bottled water in a nice glass bottle

502
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 2: that you find in your fancy schmancy hotel rooms in Philadelphia.

503
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. There wasn't actually much water in

504
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: those bottles.

505
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: Almost no water in there. I forget the name of

506
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 2: that brand, Voss Voss Water.

507
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 4: Oh right, yes, ah, the bottles are pretty.

508
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: They are you know, they're a real statement that That's

509
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: how I felt when I was when I got one

510
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: from the hotel we were at We're on the road.

511
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, okay, I'm gonna walk around with this

512
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: and feel like I'm I'm saying something. I don't know

513
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: what it is, but I'm making a statement about something.

514
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 2: I think it's just a noise. And it's like, mmmm,

515
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: that's what I'm saying, That's what the noise is. Yeah.

516
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: Uh So this continues this there's more to this water story.

517
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: But let's bracket that for a second and look at

518
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: another huge controversy with NESLEI, which is the idea of

519
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: baby formula. Just like back in the late eighteen hundreds,

520
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: Nesley remains invested in formula and baby food products. But

521
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: the problem nowadays sinners less on the product itself and

522
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: more on the marketing. And I'm using that term in

523
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: a very generous way.

524
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 4: Well, well, by the first decade of the twentieth century,

525
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 4: Nesley ads, we're saying stuff like, don't wait too long

526
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 4: before you wean the baby. If you do, the little

527
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 4: one is likely to be weak in anemic. They admitted

528
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 4: in these ads that breast milk was the best for

529
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 4: young babies, but for baby six months and up, they

530
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 4: said that their product was.

531
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: The fest thing in the world. And this splendid triumph

532
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 2: of care and science is so like mother's milk that

533
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: the tiny stomach won't notice the difference. Nestley, that which

534
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 2: is wrong, so wrong, so so wrong.

535
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: On multiple levels.

536
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 4: Oh sure, and we've we've done a lot of not

537
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 4: us personally, but but researchers have done a lot into

538
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 4: looking into this in the past few decades. And yeah,

539
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 4: brea breast milk is better.

540
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 2: Breast milk is like the best thing if we could

541
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 2: all right now, everybody listening to this be just drinking

542
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: breast milk instead of coffee, we'd be good to go.

543
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: This is this is for real.

544
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 4: Well, certainly you can. You can get some some antibodies.

545
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: I like that you're passionate.

546
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: I learned a lot about it when we had a kid.

547
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: It's just it's incredible stuff.

548
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: But not everyone has evolved the genetic mutation to drink

549
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: milk into adulthood.

550
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 4: Oh true.

551
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: And just something.

552
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 2: There are a lot of problems with the thing that

553
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 2: I said. It's just I was being hyperbolic. I'm sorry.

554
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: I don't everyone do that ever, please. I mean.

555
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 4: Also, until men really start figuring out how to lactate

556
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 4: more regularly, I think I think we're going to have

557
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 4: a supply chain problem.

558
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, just logistically really tried. And Nesley also wanted to lactate. Well,

559
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: they guess they're kind of your nemesis here. They wanted

560
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: people to stop lactating. Oh right, They became big formula.

561
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: These ads are categorically wrong, right, someone say it, it's

562
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: ethically wrong, but it's definitely the science doesn't bear out,

563
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: is the problem.

564
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 2: And in the.

565
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: Nineteen nineties, probably knowing this already, Nesley began pushing formula

566
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: aggressively in developing and poor countries, specifically targeting the poorest

567
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: among them, and they had campaigns that were meant to

568
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: make formula seem equal as as good for the kid,

569
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: if not better than breast milk. But the first problem

570
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: here that crops up is in a medical sphere. A

571
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: lot of these countries don't have great water infrastructure, and

572
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: you have to have sanitary water to use this powdered

573
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: formula I believe was powdered at that time.

574
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

575
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

576
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: So if you don't have access to clean water, or

577
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: you don't have access to the technology to boil the water,

578
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: or you don't speak the language that in which the

579
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: instructions are printed on the container, what good is uh?

580
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: What good are English instructions if there's a place where

581
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: the country has thirty different languages and the main one

582
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: is Portuguese.

583
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? I know, Hey, I think Neslie needed to get

584
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: on that hobo code. You know what I mean, like, oh,

585
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 2: hobo code.

586
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, this this comes out after right, so we can

587
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: say hobo code and don't have to explain what it is. Perfect,

588
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: it's you know what we're talking about.

589
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 4: I was at your show.

590
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh wait, oh sorry, thanks for coming problem anytime.

591
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 4: I can tell it mental lot.

592
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: Too, Yeah, procleped. But Nesley does seem to have knowingly

593
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: ignored these risks, the risk of improper creation of the formula,

594
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: the risk of unsanitary water, the health the health complications

595
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: that arrive when a child is put on formula.

596
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 3: And.

597
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: This, this concern was cast aside. UNICEF estimates that a

598
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: formula fed child, by the way, just for some facts,

599
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: living in a disease ridden in unhygienic condition is going

600
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: to be between six and twenty five times more likely

601
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: to die of diarrhea and four times more likely to

602
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: die of pneumonia in comparison to a child that has

603
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: been breastfed.

604
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 2: So wow, because well, there is a there's a natural

605
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: filter there, which is the mom. She filters a lot

606
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 2: of that bad stuff out, it's true.

607
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. And there's another problem, which is that if we're

608
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: talking about destitute communities, often mothers would tend to use

609
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: less formula than was needed because they wanted to make

610
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: it last longer. Because you see, all right, So there's

611
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: this thing called the International Baby Food Action Network. It's

612
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: a real thing. I think it's a great name for

613
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: an extremist group. They are not.

614
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: It sounds like a kid's TV show or something Baby Action.

615
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: Network, you know what I mean.

616
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 4: I would watch that show.

617
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: I would check it out. I would give it a chance.

618
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 2: Fair.

619
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would make it through the

620
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: whole season, but I'll just ask you.

621
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 2: But dude, they've got some crazy allegations, right, and not crazy,

622
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 2: they're just intense.

623
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: Right because Neslei they according to their belief for their allegations.

624
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 1: Nesli distributes free formula samples and hospitals and maternity wards

625
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: across these countries, knowing that this will interfere with the

626
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: natural actation process.

627
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 4: And not only in these in these less developed countries,

628
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 4: but also in the United States also in places where

629
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 4: we don't need that.

630
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, we got a bunch of samples when when

631
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 2: we had our child. Yeah, a ton of stuff sent

632
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 2: home with us for free formulas.

633
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: All that's the thing. That's the thing, because once this

634
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: has interfered with the natural actation process and you go

635
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: away from the hospital or the maternity ward or what

636
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: have you, you find out that the formula is no

637
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: longer free. So the Baby Food Action Network says that

638
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: Nesley is operating under the guise of humanitarian aid. But

639
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 1: what they're really trying to do is to create a market,

640
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: a captive market. At that they say Nestley is purposefully

641
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: Nesley is aware that this interference with natural milk production

642
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: can occur, and they want it to that's the argument.

643
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: Yikes, that's a that's a heavy accusation. I wish it

644
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 2: didn't feel so real. So like, correct, I wish it didn't.

645
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,359
Speaker 1: So you think you think it was nefarious in some way,

646
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: like you think it was not.

647
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,439
Speaker 2: Just it was nefarious, whether they meant to or not. Right,

648
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 2: I mean, if this is actually happening, if they're giving

649
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 2: all these free samples, which we have seen I have

650
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: seen personally, it's not so great.

651
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: Well, and then the argument could be that maybe the

652
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: corporate heart is in the right place.

653
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're just giving you free things.

654
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,959
Speaker 1: But we just neglected to understand the long term consequences.

655
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 4: Well right up until someone said, hey, there's long term consequences, at.

656
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: Which point you know, they did keep going.

657
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 4: They did keep going. They did keep going, and they

658
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 4: could certainly have a program where they offer these supplies

659
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 4: for free to hospitals and maternity wards for patients who

660
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 4: need them for patients who request them for specific cases

661
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 4: where for whatever reason, the mother or the baby cannot breastfeed.

662
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: And there have been there have been doctors in some

663
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: developing countries who say that the way this stuff should

664
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: work is that they should have to write prescriptions for format. Wow,

665
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: they should put that filter up. That's because writing a

666
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: prescription on their end would be free, but it would

667
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: also be a way to keep the doctor involved.

668
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, the you know, medical provider for there.

669
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: We go, that's the one. I don't know why that

670
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: was difficult for me, but but it's true. This has

671
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,240
Speaker 1: been something that's been brewing for a long long time. Nesli,

672
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: for their part, denies all the accusations, all the accusations

673
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: across the board, and they said, we don't even know

674
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: where to start looking to figure out if this is true,

675
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: because there's no you haven't given us anything specific enough.

676
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: But still this led to a large push for boycotts.

677
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: The first US boycott of Nesli begins in July of

678
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: seventy seven, nineteen seventy seven, and then it spreads to

679
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: Europe and in nineteen eighty one, the World Health Assembly

680
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: adopts a code a policy on the marketing of breast

681
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: milk substitutes, which sounds very specific when they say it

682
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: is a minimum requirement that has to be adopted in

683
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: its entirety. In eighty four, Nestle as sense and they

684
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: implement the code. Boycott gets suspended, but surprise, surprise, it

685
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: came back in nineteen eighty eight because most people who

686
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: had a problem with it pre boycott said that they

687
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: didn't fix anything post boycott.

688
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: So that's the story of Nesle and infant formula.

689
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: Well, I like that we start with kids. Do you

690
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: want to stick with kids?

691
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 2: I think we should, but I think we need an

692
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 2: ad break between this, just as a bit of a

693
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: palate cleanser. If that's okay, share, okay, let's hear from

694
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 2: some sponsors.

695
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 1: We're back with a twisted segue. I believe we set

696
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: this up as we enjoyed, not the right word for

697
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 1: our conversation about formula. But we do want to stick

698
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: with kids, because it turns out that there's more to

699
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: the story. Nesley isn't just participating in a cover up

700
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: or a conspiracy to extract water from small communities. It's

701
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: not just through either incompetence or nefarious designs, forcing children

702
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: to drink baby formula. It's it's also cutting out the

703
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: middle man of exploitation entirely and diving right into, as

704
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: we established earlier, slavery, human trafficking, child labor, you know

705
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 1: what I mean.

706
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 2: At least it's being accused of such, and there are

707
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 2: some there's some evidence to show that it's it's been.

708
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 1: Happening in the supply chain, right chocolate, right now, We're

709
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 1: not saying it's not like we're saying there's some crazy

710
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: corporate psychopath with like a monocle and a candy bar

711
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: top hat slugging down Sam Pellegrinos as he snatches children

712
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: off the street. But hopefully not, hopefully not. But it

713
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: is true, like you said, Lauren, with chocolate, and like

714
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: you said, Matt, with the supply chain, there's compelling evidence

715
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: that the people they are buying products from cocoa beans

716
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: and some that those folks are engaging in slavery, child labor,

717
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: human trafficking, and pretty gruesome acts of abuse.

718
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. In two thousand and five, the International Labor

719
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 2: Rights Fund filed one of those lawsuits against Nestley and

720
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 2: several other companies on behalf of three children from Molly

721
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 2: in the pseudo edge that these kids were trafficked to

722
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 2: the Ivory Coast where they were enslaved, where they were

723
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 2: abused on a regular basis and forced to work on

724
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: a cocoa plantation. Not great.

725
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: Case went on for years, right.

726
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 2: Exactly, in twenty ten, the US District Court for the

727
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 2: Central District of California, they deter in that corporations cannot

728
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 2: be held liable for violations of international law and dismissed

729
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 2: this suit. Isn't that isn't that special? As they say,

730
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 2: this was of course a controversial decision when since then

731
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 2: it has been appealed. But isn't it isn't that crazy

732
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: that and a corporation cannot be or at least the

733
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 2: thought at the time was that this corporation can't be

734
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: held liable for violations of international law through its practices

735
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 2: of creating products, right.

736
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 4: Especially when it's an international corporation.

737
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. I guess the logic there

738
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: is that it would be a huge hindrance to business

739
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 1: operations and a huge expense to have to send people

740
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: to every place physically to check on these things.

741
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: And people need needs, you know, people, everyone, people everywhere

742
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: need needs.

743
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 4: We need our kit cats.

744
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right.

745
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 2: Oh man, everyone everyone.

746
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,399
Speaker 1: Needs Now this isn't restricted to a single incident, that's

747
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: the problem. There was a report done by an independent auditor,

748
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: a group called the Fair Labor Association, and they said

749
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: that they found Nesle committed multiple serious violations of its

750
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: own internal labor code. So it's corporate laws, let alone

751
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 1: the laws of the land and the state. This was

752
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: at the very least a large degree of negligence, if

753
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 1: not tacit approval of slavery and child labor. And here's

754
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: the thing. Nesle commissioned the study. Nesle said, show us

755
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: what we need to know. And the Fair Labor folks

756
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: came back and they were like, wow, this is monstrous

757
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: And they're like, whoa, really that's crazy. Yeah, no way, no,

758
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: not us. And we have a quote from then executive

759
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: vice president for Operations, Jose Lopez, the use of.

760
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 4: Child labor in our Coco supply chain goes against everything

761
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 4: we stand for. No company sourcing Coco from the Ivory

762
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 4: Coast can guarantee that it doesn't happen, but we can

763
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 4: say that tackling child labor is a top priority for

764
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 4: our company.

765
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: Okay, So again the argument is that no company of

766
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: that size, especially could be one hundred percent certain of

767
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 1: how their suppliers are behaving, especially they seem to say

768
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: in this area of the world. It's not surprising that

769
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: critics remain unsatisfied with that response. And as of this

770
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: recording and estimated one point eight million children in West

771
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: Africa alone are at risk of becoming a victim of

772
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: child labor.

773
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, it's going to take a breather here for

774
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 2: a second.

775
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe it was too much to have another child

776
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 1: related one. But maybe we should stay. Maybe we should

777
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: stay geopolitical, Maybe we should go to another country.

778
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 2: Who should we talk about like corporations going in and

779
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 2: strong arming countries by making them payback massive debts.

780
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: So this is a weird one. In two thousand and two,

781
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: Ethiopia was in the grips of a nationwide brutal famine

782
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: and Nesle came to Ethiopia in its time of need

783
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: and said, you owe us six million dollars. This claim

784
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: dates back to nineteen seventies when the military of Ethiopia

785
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: seized the assets of foreign companies. But things took a

786
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: turn because the public found out about this and they

787
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 1: began to speak up.

788
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: Oh yes. The company received over forty thousand letters from

789
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 2: people who were absolutely outraged in one of the most

790
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 2: famous cases of public opinion beat corporate greed that exists

791
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,439
Speaker 2: on the planet. In the end, Nesli took a U turn.

792
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: They settled for I guess partially.

793
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: They still took some money.

794
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 2: Oh definitely. They're like, okay, okay, guys, look, will it

795
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 2: just give us some of it?

796
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 4: Will meet you halfway.

797
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. In the end, Neslei did take a U turn

798
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: and they settled for just some of the debt.

799
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 4: They still took some cash, yeah, will meet you halfway.

800
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: Right, right right. And in their defense, they also took

801
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: that money that Ethiopia gave them and invested a portion

802
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 1: of it to in the country to help it bounce

803
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: back from famine.

804
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 2: That's very nice.

805
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: It's really weird. It's it's they could have just not

806
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: taken the money. I don't know, but maybe there's an

807
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 1: argument that they had better international development experience and so

808
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: would be better stewards of that money. That's that's an

809
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: argument you would hear. I could tell.

810
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 4: I'm very politely worded.

811
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 1: I could I can read the room here in the

812
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: podcast studio. I could tell that you all are not persuaded.

813
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: I'll check in with Paul and see what he thinks.

814
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: But while they were in Ethiopia around the same time, roughly,

815
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: they made a deal with the wife of the infamous

816
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: dictator from Zimbabwe, Robert mcgabe Mayial his wife, Grace Mugabe,

817
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: to buy one million liters of milk a year from

818
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: farms that she had taken over, because you see, Grace

819
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: mcgabe had a booming side business of taking over large

820
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: farms in Zimbabwe that were white.

821
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 4: Owned, well at least six of them since two thousand

822
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 4: and two.

823
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and so this is building a farming empire

824
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 1: from these legally confiscated farm lands. And you know, Zimbabwe

825
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:27,720
Speaker 1: has a very very upsetting history of racial tension, colonialism,

826
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: resource extraction and so on. But these farms were taken illegally,

827
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: at least as far as the international community things.

828
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, it led to another series of boycotts yet

829
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 4: yet another as well as sanctions in both the European

830
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 4: Union and the United States.

831
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, it sounds like we're picking on Nesli.

832
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: These are just things that you probably don't know about.

833
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: A candy company, even Canada got beefed up with them.

834
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 2: Dude. They're a lean cuisine company.

835
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 1: Okay, they're a dog food company. That's right, There are

836
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:58,240
Speaker 1: all things.

837
00:46:58,360 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 4: They're a hot pockets company.

838
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: Come on and that at the end of the day,

839
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: that's what it is. At the end of the day.

840
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: What matters more than hot pockets. You can put anything

841
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: in them.

842
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 2: So let's talk about price fixing. Price fixing is a

843
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: fun thing where companies work together people who were in

844
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 2: the same market share to control the prices of things.

845
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 2: A lot of times it's to keep them high, keep

846
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 2: prices high. That way, everybody gets a lot of that.

847
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 2: Move lah. Sometimes it's to strategically keep the prices low.

848
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 2: Either way, it's strategized. Well, guess what. Nestley has been

849
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,240
Speaker 2: accused of this and they even got raided.

850
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, Nestley Canada got raided, along with Hershey Canada and

851
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: Mars Canada. They all have the word Canada in their

852
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: names because they're the Canadian branch of the company. I

853
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 1: feel like I'm over explaining that.

854
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 2: It makes sense though. So these this company, Nestle and

855
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 2: other companies the ones we just mentioned they're subject to

856
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 2: a class action lawsuit. Are several of them. Per company,

857
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 2: and ultimately they settled for nine million dollars without accepting

858
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: as per usual, as we've learned on this show, without

859
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: accepting any liability, without admitting any guilt or any issues there.

860
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 2: It's like, we did no things wrong, but here's a

861
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 2: lot of money.

862
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: Isn't a lot of money to them?

863
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 2: How much do they make?

864
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: Ninety zero point eight billion in total revenue though, that's

865
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 1: not profit?

866
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is yeah, Nicelie Canada doesn't rake in

867
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 2: all that cash, but they rake in quite a bit,

868
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 2: I'm assuming.

869
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they you know this, this happens. A lot

870
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: of lawsuits are settled out at court this way, right.

871
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: They also have been Look, they they're not hurting for money,

872
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 1: that's true. They are a business, though, and they need

873
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: to be quite aware of where a profit can be found.

874
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: That is why they have been involved in like the

875
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: weirdest round of criticism regarding pollution. It's nuts in a

876
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: circuitous way. Nesley actually makes some some real scratch, some

877
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: solid cheese off of pollution.

878
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 2: They sorry, what now? Yeah?

879
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,399
Speaker 4: Wait, yeah, okay, the main the main part of that

880
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 4: this is going to go back to water. But they

881
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 4: have historically and sometimes still do source inexpensive palm oil,

882
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 4: and palm oil is a vegetable oil made from the

883
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 4: fruit of oil palm trees. Makes sense, right. It goes

884
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 4: into a lot of their candies and other products that

885
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 4: include processed fats, and it's a crop that fuels a

886
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 4: lot of deforestation, endangers a lot of species, like the

887
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 4: cute ones like like tigers and orangon tang stuff like that,

888
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 4: and it creates a lot of pollution in the areas

889
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 4: where they're grown and processed Africa, Asia and South America primarily.

890
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 2: Are you saying tigers are cute. Yeah, tigers are terrified.

891
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: Tigers are amazing.

892
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 4: They're majestic kitters.

893
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,399
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to sounds so definitive about that.

894
00:49:55,480 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 4: I yeah, did you have a bad time with tigers?

895
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I have a three year old and I've

896
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: been reading about tigers everywhere and just I've been to

897
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 2: the zoo a lot lately. The tiger is crazy, scary,

898
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,959
Speaker 2: it's huge, it would eat you, just bite your face off.

899
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: I mean, so with cats, Yeah, it's just a size thing. Yeah,

900
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,879
Speaker 1: tigers are also brilliant. They have this is a this

901
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: does have anything to do with this episode, but tigers

902
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: who have been wounded in the wild and Siberia and stuff.

903
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 1: If they manage to escape, they are able to, like corvids,

904
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: remember the smell and the appearance of the person who

905
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: wounded them. And there's been at least one proven case

906
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: where a tiger was attacked escaped in Siberia waited for

907
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: winter to hit when it knew it. It stalked the

908
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: guy for months what and just waited for it to

909
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: get too cold for to leave his house. And then

910
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 1: you can see the footprints that the tiger walked around

911
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: in increasingly closer spirals, and then it came through his

912
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: back window, snatched him, drug him out, and I don't

913
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: remember what parts of the body they found.

914
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:13,919
Speaker 2: I'm not saying Richard Parker isn't a badass assassin. I'm

915
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 2: just saying, yikes, that's all. It's just I just take

916
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 2: issue with them being cute, because I agree there are

917
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 2: kitty cats, and kitty cats are cute, but they're big, old,

918
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: scared cats that will assassinate you after waiting a long tizing.

919
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 4: Okay, I think this isn't my new personality test.

920
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: Oh no. Also, Annie Research cost the Saver has a

921
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: very fascinating personality test that. I believe she was entirely

922
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: making up on the spot.

923
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 4: I can't think of what it might be, but that

924
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 4: doesn't mean that it didn't exist previously.

925
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: I'll love to ask her about it. I love to

926
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,399
Speaker 1: ask her about it. It's a it's a good road

927
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: trip conversation.

928
00:51:56,239 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so so palm oil bad, palm oil bad?

929
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,800
Speaker 1: Palm oil is bad, Tiger's good.

930
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 2: Tiger's okay, But what about plastic bottles?

931
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: How are they well? In the US and the West

932
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: at large. Increasing concern over plastic bottles that sent more

933
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 1: and more customers back to reusable bottles or tap water,

934
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: you know, And this is not Nesley's profits down a bit,

935
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 1: And I do want to point out there's something very

936
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: clever and very calculated at play here in the US

937
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: at least concerning consumer plastic. Ninety percent of all the

938
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 1: plastic pollution that we hear about in the oceans of

939
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: the world comes from commercial fisheries. It comes from gigantic

940
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 1: nets and things of that nature.

941
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, the straws that you use are not contributing that

942
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 4: seriously compared to those items, to the great Pacific raft

943
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 4: and stuff like that.

944
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 1: Right, right, And plastic bottles do play a huge role

945
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 1: and pollution. But again, don't let people run this sort

946
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 1: of shell game on you. It's I think it's brilliant

947
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 1: that so many corporations have have had this change of

948
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: heart moment, such great pr where they're like, you know what,

949
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: we decided to be the change. We're gonna make a

950
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 1: difference here at canglom Co. No more straws yea. And

951
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: people are like, oh, that's great.

952
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 2: And you guys are really brave. But the one other major,

953
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 2: just because we're kind of a major contributing factor though,

954
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 2: that I've been reading about more and more, are these

955
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 2: little food pouches that people are buying for kids and adults,

956
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 2: like the exactly that have a little plastic top, and

957
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 2: that plastic top in particular is becoming a massive problem.

958
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 2: And the other thing is, you guys have seen the

959
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 2: water bottle refillers around Atlanta and a lot of other cities.

960
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 2: Have you seen these? It looks like a water fountain

961
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 2: where you just put your water bottle up to it

962
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 2: and you can refill your water bottle. Yeah, so smart.

963
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,800
Speaker 2: That just that makes me so happy when we're thinking

964
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,479
Speaker 2: about the pollution that even though it's not as bad

965
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 2: as commercial fisheries. The pollution that is generated from plastic

966
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 2: products like that.

967
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,959
Speaker 1: Absolutely, so how does how does Nesley end up making

968
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 1: a profit off of this? To find the answer there,

969
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: we have to travel across the Pacific because sales may

970
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: be down in the US and the West, but in

971
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: China sales are up in part due to pollution. About

972
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: seventy percent in China's lakes and rivers have been polluted.

973
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: Although people will tell you virtually all the surface water

974
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: is now unsafe to drink in that country unless it's

975
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: been treated. I don't know how much of that is

976
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: exaggeration and how much of that bears up to the scrutiny,

977
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: but they have a ton of industrial facilities, power and

978
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:47,879
Speaker 1: chemical plants, paper and textile factories, and this means that

979
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,879
Speaker 1: a lot of the people living in the country don't

980
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: trust the water or the purification infrastructure in China, so

981
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:59,280
Speaker 1: they buy more and more bottled water from companies like Nestley, who, again,

982
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 1: they make a huge margin out of this stuff. What

983
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: did you say earlier about California, They pay like five

984
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: hundred something a year five twenty four.

985
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:10,240
Speaker 4: Five hundred and twenty four dollars for every three hundred million.

986
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: Gallons and you pay like minimum, what dollar twenty nine

987
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: per bottle? Yeah, for twelve to sixty ounces.

988
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:18,720
Speaker 4: What do you think that twenty nine cents is about?

989
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: It's to make it, you know, you know how this

990
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: didn't you and I do something about pricing, like why

991
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 1: there are so many nines? Yeah, yeah, it's aspirational, but

992
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,399
Speaker 1: you're also saving a penny. I don't think it works

993
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: on us anymore because now thirty seems like less to

994
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people because there's a zero at the end. Yeah,

995
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: that's ridiculous.

996
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 2: Right, So this whole idea goes back. I think the

997
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 2: most perhaps the most important thing here, is that ness

998
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 2: Lee is a company that makes food stuffs. For the

999
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 2: most part, they also make you know, we've talked about

1000
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 2: all the other companies they have hand in, but for

1001
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 2: the most part, they're creating products which you buy, you

1002
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 2: open up, throw away the packaging, and then eat the

1003
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,240
Speaker 2: part that's edible. Right. That creates a lot of waste,

1004
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:10,840
Speaker 2: a lot of trash. And it doesn't mean that, you know,

1005
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 2: Neslee is for some nefarious purpose trying to take on

1006
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 2: Captain Planet because they're bad guys.

1007
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,479
Speaker 1: It's not like they're sitting around like Montgomery Burns doing

1008
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: the you know, rubbing their hands together. There's a better

1009
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 1: word for that, like like a little.

1010
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 4: Like like raccoony.

1011
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, just sort of just

1012
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: sort of rubbing their own palms together and saying, how

1013
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,280
Speaker 1: how how should we ruin the world today?

1014
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1015
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 1: What Someone's like, well, we could I don't know, ah,

1016
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: got me on the spot here, manty. We could uh,

1017
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: we could start war, we could poison the food. And

1018
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: it's like no, no, no, something more nuanced. And then

1019
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: they're like okay, okay, um um uh pollute everything and

1020
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: they're like.

1021
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 4: Oh, have you considered single use packaging?

1022
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 2: There we go exactly. It's not that they're not some

1023
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 2: super villain, righting evil like that, right, they're the onceler

1024
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 2: They're a giant corporation now making tons and tons of

1025
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 2: products with tons and tons of packaging, and that is

1026
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 2: just what happens when you do.

1027
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: That, and as people are you providing a huge boost

1028
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: to economies and job opportunities. Those are another that's another

1029
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: piec argument you'll hear watch the Lorix.

1030
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 4: Although hey, we're not even talking about the industrial runoff

1031
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 4: from the industrial factories. Who are who are creating these

1032
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 4: plastic products.

1033
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 2: Read that's true.

1034
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that's absolutely true. Yes, and unfortunately, unfortunately, you know,

1035
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: they don't have to be a purposefully malevolent entity if it.

1036
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: If you're a corporation, job is, as Matt said, to

1037
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: pursue a profit, and that means that everything to a

1038
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 1: certain is going to be a lower priority, including pollution.

1039
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: There are very few companies in the world that would

1040
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: say we're going to operate at a loss for ten

1041
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 1: years to help make the world a better place. That's

1042
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: just not a viable tenure plan.

1043
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 2: That's not something a company does.

1044
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: So maybe not immoral, but amoral, And there we have it.

1045
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 1: The world's largest food and beverage company is the subject

1046
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 1: of numerous controversies, boycotts, criticisms, and arguably, yes, cover ups.

1047
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: One thing we did cut from this episode was the

1048
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: delightful tale of the Fluoride Mafia, which is, yeah, we

1049
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 1: found this. It's this group of people who believe that

1050
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: Nesley is so large because it is secretly charged by

1051
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: some elite cabal with the task of putting fluoride in everything. Ooh,

1052
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: that's their big master plan. Fluoride and everything, not just

1053
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: the usual water, no, everything florid flavored Kit Cats, fluoride

1054
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:07,959
Speaker 1: flavored purina ben a full Yeah, it seems extreme. Hey,

1055
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 1: do you have no comment on that one?

1056
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 2: No, I don't know.

1057
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 4: I haven't researched to that.

1058
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: You don't want to get involved with big fluoride?

1059
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 2: Right? We all dose ourselves at least two times a

1060
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 2: day if we're good adults and or children.

1061
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. That's a bright side. Brush your teeth.

1062
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 2: See, there you go.

1063
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: So what happens? Now? What does this mean for anyone

1064
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: who was already familiar with this stuff or anyone who

1065
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 1: just learned about it. If you support NESLI and disagree

1066
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: with its critics, if you think they're being alarmist, or

1067
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: you think they're trying to create problems where none really exists,

1068
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: then kudos, congrat you lucked out. Life goes on as normal.

1069
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, Eat as many Kitcats as you want.

1070
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, get that purina and feed it your dogs

1071
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 2: and then put that to Giorno in the oven. Crack

1072
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 2: open a nice sand pell of Grino and watch the

1073
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:00,479
Speaker 2: wor world burn.

1074
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: That's great. Let's put that on a T shirt. Okay,

1075
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: tell us if that should be a T shirt? Yeah,

1076
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: so we should be doing more IGU commercials too.

1077
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe Global Unlimited, the Illuminated ones, they've got

1078
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 2: something coming out or they're like like co sponsored something

1079
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 2: that's coming out on Savor. Yeah.

1080
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 4: Over on Saver, we're doing a reading of the Grim

1081
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 4: Brothers story The Almond Tree. Oh it's you know, it's

1082
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 4: about cannibalism. So we thought it would be perfect for Thanksgiving.

1083
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 4: So it's coming out the Friday after Thanksgiving for our

1084
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 4: non American listeners, that is November twenty third.

1085
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 2: Looks for it.

1086
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 1: Share it with your loved ones, don't give them a context.

1087
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 1: Just like walk in during Thanksgiving dinner, knock some stuff

1088
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: off the table, slam down a boombox. You do need

1089
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 1: a boombox for this, and then just just play it

1090
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: and pick one person and make weirdly hostile eye contact

1091
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 1: with them.

1092
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so so definitely do that. You can. If

1093
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 2: you have any questions or comments about Nesle and any

1094
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 2: of the things we've talked about today, you can find

1095
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 2: us on Twitter. You can find us on Facebook and Instagram.

1096
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 2: Conspiracy stuff with most of those conspiracy stuff show on Instagram,

1097
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 2: you can you can call us.

1098
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: That's true, Matt, we are one eight three three.

1099
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 2: STD w y t K. Yeah, I gotta always highlight

1100
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 2: that STD because it's the most important.

1101
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: Transparent about that. Yeah, let people know it's the responsible

1102
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:26,919
Speaker 1: thing to do.

1103
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 2: The other thing you could do is join our Facebook group.

1104
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 2: Here's where it gets crazy. That's where you can join

1105
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 2: a lot of us and our fellow conspiracy realists and

1106
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 2: just discuss things. Post some dope memes. What kind of memes?

1107
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:44,479
Speaker 2: Dank I forget the cool hip memes? You can post

1108
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 2: those there. So that's where you can find us for

1109
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:48,959
Speaker 2: the most part.

1110
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: And we know what you're probably asking yourself here, probably

1111
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: like guys, I know because you say this stuff at

1112
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: the end of every show, right, I don't care how

1113
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: to contact g I already know how to do it.

1114
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: Stop yelling STD at me at the end of the episode.

1115
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 1: But but you are probably wondering how you can get

1116
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 1: in contact with Savor.

1117
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 4: Oh goodness, you can find us. Yes, it's Savor the Podcast.

1118
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 4: You can look us up via any Internet search engine.

1119
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 4: You can also find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook

1120
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 4: at savor pod or email us at hello at saverpod

1121
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 4: dot com. We would love to hear from you, and

1122
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 4: we occasionally get angry about giant corporations on our show too,

1123
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 4: So I don't know. Come tune in listen to our

1124
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 4: sugar episodes. We get really angry.

1125
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: I am a big fan of One of your more

1126
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 1: recent episodes has this title. I don't know if you

1127
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: heard this, Matt Mayo naise or Mayo naise like I

1128
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: don't want to Annie.

1129
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 4: Annie strongly dislikes mayonaise. It's one of her top five

1130
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 4: least favorite foods.

1131
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 2: It's so fascinating. The story of mayonnaise and some of

1132
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 2: the things you talked about in the episode is genuinely fascinating,

1133
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 2: and I love mayonnaise. Yeah, it's the European whatever blood

1134
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 2: I have in me, I just want to dip my

1135
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 2: fries in it, slather out on my sandwiches. I do

1136
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 2: not care. I'll put it on a PB and J

1137
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 2: what I'll do it.

1138
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:19,439
Speaker 1: There's a I mean, live your life. I got your back.

1139
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 1: There's also a a group of people that believes, there is,

1140
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, a Mayo conspiracy.

1141
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, there was just a Twitter message about this, Yeah,

1142
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 4: that that Big Mayo is like part of Big Agra

1143
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 4: and that this is a problem, specifically in the way

1144
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 4: that Vegan mayonnaise have been have been treated in the

1145
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 4: larger market, and I will say that mostly that's an

1146
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 4: issue of the definition, the legal definition from the FDA

1147
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 4: of mayonnaise, which includes eggs. So that's a that's a

1148
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 4: reason why vegan mayo has not been allowed to market

1149
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 4: itself as mayonnaise. Yeah, so that's part of the problem.

1150
01:03:55,280 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 2: Because vegan mayonnaise isn't mayonnaise. Mayonnaise is fat and eggs,

1151
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 2: delicious oil.

1152
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, vegetable oil. Vegetable oil and eggs.

1153
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 2: Mostly, I need I need my mayonnaise to be made

1154
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 2: out of.

1155
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 4: Bacon grease that also cannot be marketed as mayonnaise.

1156
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 1: Oh yes, it's like bacon A's at that point, some

1157
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 1: sort of ali But you know what, man, you gotta

1158
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 1: be the change, right if you want that bacon mayonnaise

1159
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: to happen, I have full faith that you will do.

1160
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 4: So.

1161
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 2: Paul is going to turn us into bacon A's if

1162
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 2: we don't get that.

1163
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: That's true.

1164
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 2: That's true, And that's the end of this classic episode.

1165
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 2: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode,

1166
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 2: you can get into contact with us in a number

1167
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 2: of different ways. One of the best is to give

1168
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 2: us a call. Our number is one eight three three

1169
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 2: std WYTK. If you don't want to do that, you

1170
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 2: can send us a good old fashioned email.

1171
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1172
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

1173
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:00,959
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1174
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.