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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome back. It's the latest episode of the

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Speaker 1: Book of Joe podcast with me, Tom Berducci, and of

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Speaker 1: course Joe Madden and Joe. We've reached the League Championship Series,

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Speaker 1: so this episode we want to break down both what

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Speaker 1: happened in the division series and what will happen in

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Speaker 1: the LCS. How you doing, Joe, Good morning.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well. How about you, sir? I know you're

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Speaker 2: doing a lot of traveling and not easy but also fun.

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Speaker 2: I'm in a petition that they start flying you everywhere privately.

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Speaker 2: Somehow we're going to get that done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for that. Hey, listen to what jumps out

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Speaker 1: of me, Joe. Is the top five teams if you

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Speaker 1: go strictly by regular season records, they're all out. And

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Speaker 1: not only did they go out quickly, you know, they

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Speaker 1: went out winning one game. I'm talking about the Braves,

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Speaker 1: the Oriole, the Dodgers, the Rays, and the Brewers one

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Speaker 1: and thirteen this postseason. So we're left with an LCS

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Speaker 1: with three wildcard teams and the Houston Astros that won

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Speaker 1: ninety games. Listen, I know there's been some carping out

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Speaker 1: there from people. People love to complain. We all know that, right,

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Speaker 1: and now it's like, well, let's do something to advantage

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Speaker 1: the division winners a little more. Stop it, people, This

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Speaker 1: is postseason baseball. Nobody complains when you get upsets in

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Speaker 1: the NCAA tournament or the NFL playoffs, people say, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is great. Didn't see this coming. What happened was

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Speaker 1: in the LDS division series. Those games, those series did

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Speaker 1: not go to the maximum distance, so those teams didn't

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Speaker 1: get stretched in the first round, and we're able to

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Speaker 1: bring people back and listen, there's a lot of off days,

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Speaker 1: as you know, Joe, in the postseason, so I don't

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Speaker 1: think those teams were as harmed as much because we

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Speaker 1: didn't have series go the maximum number of games in

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Speaker 1: the first round. So just stop at people, stop the complaining.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with the format. You know, it's going

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Speaker 1: to change anywhere in a few years when we get

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Speaker 1: the thirty two teams where you don't have teams sitting around.

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Speaker 1: But listen, I don't think sitting around for five days

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Speaker 1: is big deal, Joe. When the other team you're facing

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Speaker 1: does get extended, has to really use up their pitching

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Speaker 1: and has to start the next round with their number

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Speaker 1: three or four against your number one. But we just

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Speaker 1: didn't get that. So listen, I don't think there's a

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Speaker 1: huge difference between a ninety win team and a ninety,

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Speaker 1: say four win team. I think the playoffs have been great.

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Speaker 1: Stop complaining about the postseason format. The Phillies beat the

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Speaker 1: Braves three out of four games, fair end square. What

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Speaker 1: do you got on that, Joe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent agree. You know the rules of

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Speaker 2: engagement going into the season. You know how the playoffs

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Speaker 2: set up. You're happy as can be to get to

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Speaker 2: the playoffs in the first place, regardless if you won

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Speaker 2: one hundred games or if you're the last team in there.

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Speaker 2: What was that maybe the diamond with eighty four wins. Regardless,

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Speaker 2: you're there, you're you're at the at the tournament, you're

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Speaker 2: in the dance. You got to invite it to the dance.

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Speaker 2: So I was, having said all that, there's nothing to change.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe it's it's it's being done exactly as

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Speaker 2: it should be done.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: And like I said, you know, you know what's going

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Speaker 2: on when the season begins. You know what it takes

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Speaker 2: to get there. Once you get there, you know what

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Speaker 2: it takes to win. So that's that's even moved to me.

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Speaker 2: I don't even understand why that would be a consideration.

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Speaker 2: Everybody wants to attempt at some point to impose their

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Speaker 2: own methods or wills if they're not getting the conclusions

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Speaker 2: that they're looking for, it's just just leave it alone.

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Speaker 2: It's it's very good the way it is. And number two,

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Speaker 2: it's just serendipitous. I think this year with the wild

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Speaker 2: Cards kicking buck button, the teams are getting rest and

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Speaker 2: not I I love getting rest.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: I give it a perfect example when we played the

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Speaker 2: Wildcard game in Cleveland several years ago. I can't remember

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Speaker 2: the year. I always forget my years on that was

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Speaker 2: Alex Cobb started it. But we had to beat Toronto

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Speaker 2: on a Sunday. We had to beat Texas and Texas

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Speaker 2: on a Monday night just to get to the wild

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Speaker 2: Card game against Cleveland on a Wednesday. I think it

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Speaker 2: was to play Boston in the playoffs as a wildcard

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Speaker 2: as a Alds and were weird beat. I mean, like

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Speaker 2: you said, your pitching is absolutely destroyed just to get there.

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Speaker 2: I guess you could say it's somewhat that it speaks

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Speaker 2: to the depth of your group and they're planning in advance.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'll take that.

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Speaker 2: I'll take that under advisement to consideration, but I much

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Speaker 2: prefer getting our rest I do. I just think it

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Speaker 2: just happened this year this way, and I, like I said,

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Speaker 2: just you know, the rules will just play it that way.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, it just happened to turn out one and thirteen.

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Speaker 2: That's incredible, But that's the way the baseball cookie crumbles sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well said Joe. I liked everything you said. And

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Speaker 1: listen to the purpose of the postseason is not to

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Speaker 1: rubber stamp the best regular season team, you know as

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Speaker 1: well as anybody, if not better. It's a different kind

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Speaker 1: of season. It's played in a different way. You shorten

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Speaker 1: your rotation, you shorten the guys, you're using your bull

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Speaker 1: you may do some thing strategically with your offense because

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Speaker 1: of the urgency. That's different than the regular season. It's

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Speaker 1: not nineteen sixty eight anymore, folks. We're not trying to

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Speaker 1: reb snap regular season winners with the World Series, all right.

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Speaker 1: If you go back the last two years, there's been

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Speaker 1: nineteen playoffs series. The team that had the fewer wins

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Speaker 1: in those matchups won twelve of the nineteen series. It's

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Speaker 1: not unusual, nor should we think it's wrong. So again,

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Speaker 1: if you hear someone complaining about the format and they

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Speaker 1: want to come up with their own format to make

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Speaker 1: things quote unquote better, like you said, Joe, they're essentially

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Speaker 1: looking for a result that they want, which is, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's get the better team through the postseason. That's not

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Speaker 1: what we have. That's not what we've had for years

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Speaker 1: people have accepted. Now when we get to postseason in sports,

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Speaker 1: it's about upsets. It's about the possibility that things will

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Speaker 1: not follow Chuck, and I think baseball fans are totally

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Speaker 1: cool with that. So again, you hear somebody carping about

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Speaker 1: the postseason schedule, cover your years, don't listen to them.

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Speaker 2: I also think that you're seeing the teams that really

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Speaker 2: did short up their holes or deficiencies towards the end

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Speaker 2: of the season when it got to the trade deadline, etc.

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Speaker 2: Or with they stockpiled leading into it. It was the

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Speaker 2: young hitter's name for the Rangers that's really shown up

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Speaker 2: the left end eder Evan Carter. He is impressive.

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Speaker 3: They've had this.

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Speaker 2: In their back pocket the whole time, knowing that this

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Speaker 2: guy was going to be available and be impactful when

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Speaker 2: it got to that point. You know, the trade of

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Speaker 2: Jordan Montgomery getting Montgomery is another.

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Speaker 3: Example with Texas. But see why I did.

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Speaker 2: I don't even want to send to the radar because

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Speaker 2: I've always been a fan of this fella.

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Speaker 3: So they shored up whatever holes.

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Speaker 2: They might have had, and they knew what they had

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Speaker 2: in their mind league system that was going to come

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Speaker 2: to bear at the end of the season. Also, that's

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Speaker 2: going to be very useful. So I think if you

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Speaker 2: look at the teams that did things like that, and

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Speaker 2: to a certain extent, I don't even know, like you

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Speaker 2: can't even say that about necessarily the Diamondbacks. I just

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Speaker 2: think that the they've they played so well and they

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Speaker 2: played so badly. It was almost like they were the

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Speaker 2: tale of two or three teams this year. But they're

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Speaker 2: playing with a lot of energy and enthusiasm and more

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Speaker 2: skill than people have given them credit for. Very athletic.

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Speaker 2: Their pitching has really stepped it up. But they're they're

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Speaker 2: like they have they're playing like they have nothing to lose,

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Speaker 2: and that's probably the uh, the real the one component

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Speaker 2: to their method right now. That's permitting them to be

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Speaker 2: this good right now. And if they just get to

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Speaker 2: the Dodgers, they're playing so loosely.

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Speaker 3: I mean the camera.

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Speaker 2: I love when the camera gets in there a little

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Speaker 2: bit tight sometimes and you watch, you know, the viscual

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Speaker 2: reactions of the players, and you can just see how

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Speaker 2: much fun and the moment these guys are where you

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Speaker 2: could absolutely see. The Dodgers are pressing, they're expected to win,

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Speaker 2: and we go again. We uh, we win World War

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Speaker 2: one World Series over the last how many years and

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Speaker 2: that was a COVID year, a shortened season. We got

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Speaker 2: to get this done. We got to get this done.

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Speaker 2: And the other team says, man, we're just happy to

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Speaker 2: be here, and they let it loose and a yeah,

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Speaker 2: we could go. We could make You could talk about

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Speaker 2: all these different buried reasons and and apply rack channel

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Speaker 2: to them. But I'm just saying, you got to show

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Speaker 2: up your holes. You got to figure out whether it's

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Speaker 2: you might need a pinch runner, you might need another

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Speaker 2: bullpen dude, or two, you might need a starting pitcher

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Speaker 2: or two.

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Speaker 3: Whatever that might be, because it's showing up. And final

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Speaker 3: point with I'm sure you're gonna get to the Phillies.

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Speaker 2: But god, I mean, it's attitude, brother, attitude. These guys

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Speaker 2: aren't afraid of anything like the stuff that's really unquantifiable.

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Speaker 3: What am I talking about? It?

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Speaker 2: Just watch, just feel, just see this. That's why the

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Speaker 2: Phillies are so good. That's why the Diamondbacks are so

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Speaker 2: good right now. They got this vibe going on. They

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Speaker 2: caught a wave and they're not going to give it up.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up Let's start with the d

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Speaker 1: Backs and the Phillies, Joe, and how they got there

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Speaker 1: and what we see going forward here. And I think

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Speaker 1: you do have to start with a Citizens Bank Ballpark.

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Speaker 1: I mean it is literally, if you go buy all

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Speaker 1: venues in postseason history, at least twenty games, it's the

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Speaker 1: toughest place to win a game. I think it's twenty

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Speaker 1: eight and eleven. Now the Phillies are at home. You

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Speaker 1: can feel that momentum. And I thought Trey Turner made

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Speaker 1: a great point that with the pitch timer, especially, momentum

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Speaker 1: is even more important. Baseball is even more of a

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Speaker 1: momentum game. With the pitch timer, you can't have these

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Speaker 1: veteran pitchers literally slow the game down like the way

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Speaker 1: they used to. As a manager, you better have people

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Speaker 1: up and ready in the bullpen, quicker with the pitch timer.

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Speaker 1: That being said, I just think the energy in that

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Speaker 1: ballpark really does help a kind of a team that

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Speaker 1: to me, Joe, the Phillies feed off of that energy.

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Speaker 1: It's a bunch of you know, baseball rats, a bunch

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Speaker 1: of extroverts on that team who love the attention, who

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Speaker 1: are going to look for chips to put on their

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Speaker 1: shoulder and play with them and use energy and emotion

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Speaker 1: to their advantage. As you know, it can be a

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Speaker 1: disadvantage if it gets away from you the postseason. We've

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Speaker 1: seen that happen with some young players. But this Phillies

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Speaker 1: team feeds off of that. So yes, Arizona's hot Tory

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Speaker 1: Levello has done a great job with that. They figured

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Speaker 1: some things out. Brent Strom is a difference maker as

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Speaker 1: a pitching coach that first round though, you know, you

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Speaker 1: get the extra off days. I just think that this

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Speaker 1: Arizona team going up against the Phillies team, which to

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Speaker 1: me is much deeper in a longer series, that's an

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Speaker 1: uphill climb for the Diamondbacks. Listen it, They've got this

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Speaker 1: far can they win, for absolutely, But I just think

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Speaker 1: the calculus is a little bit different having to play

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Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, and especially now having your depth tested in

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Speaker 1: a longer series to meet Philadelphia and Rob Thompson, they

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Speaker 1: have more better choices.

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Speaker 3: I agree. I agree with all that.

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Speaker 2: And just to speak to your what you had mentioned

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Speaker 2: earlier playing the playoff games, we played the World Series

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Speaker 2: there in two thousand and eight with the Rays, and

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Speaker 2: I don't think we blust both of our games there,

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Speaker 2: and especially the one that was delayed forever that eventually

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Speaker 2: came back and concluded and lost.

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Speaker 3: But it is it's a different it's different. It's different.

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Speaker 2: The the ballparks different in a sense the way it

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Speaker 2: kind of envelops you and the fans themselves as And

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Speaker 2: I'm from near there in Pennsylvania. You're not far away yourself.

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Speaker 2: And I've been down there. I've sat in the stands.

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Speaker 2: I know what's going on, and and you know, these

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Speaker 2: these folks really are rallying around their group right now.

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Speaker 2: They have energized and there's no question and like you said,

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Speaker 2: the players themselves, they're there, who they are, their makeup,

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Speaker 2: how they respond, they love, they love playing the crowd.

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Speaker 3: All of that.

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Speaker 2: Stuff absolutely morphs into this entire atmosphere attitude that's that's

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Speaker 2: been developed in that city over time. The thing I'm

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Speaker 2: curious about, and I don't that's it's it's hard to

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Speaker 2: we'd have to almost ask Dave Nebrawski whatever. But did

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Speaker 2: they really bear down on makeup like when you're making that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know so many times as a scout

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Speaker 2: and a minor league manager, when you talk about a player,

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Speaker 2: when you talk about Tom Berducci, a lot of it

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Speaker 2: comes out to what do you think about his makeup?

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Speaker 2: How's he going to handle different difficult situation, how does

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Speaker 2: he handle failure? What do you think about him in

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Speaker 2: Citizens Bank Ball Park, in a playoff game, in a World

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Speaker 2: Series moment? How do you think he's going to react

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Speaker 2: to something like that? We just to have those kinds

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Speaker 2: of conversations, and it just seems to me that they

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Speaker 2: nailed make up on this group. And that's that's the

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Speaker 2: part that really attracts my eye to this team. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I know Schwarbs, of course, I know Nikky Costianos, and

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Speaker 2: I know Brandon Marsh, I know Lorenz and Michael's there,

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Speaker 2: but he hasn't played yet.

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Speaker 3: There.

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Speaker 2: But I know the makeup of these guys, and of

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Speaker 2: course you know Harper et cetera. Stott start to me

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Speaker 2: is god, dang, that's that's I don't know where this

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Speaker 2: guy come from. I don't know who scouted him, but

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Speaker 2: that's great to me. That's great scouting right there. So

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Speaker 2: I love watching him play. Bohm is really established. Boom

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Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, was like ready to be

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Speaker 2: skewered by the affhilly fans, and he turned it around.

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Speaker 2: And look at him right now. He's playing to the

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Speaker 2: crowd like like like.

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Speaker 3: A co veteran, you know. And so I that's the

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Speaker 3: part about this.

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Speaker 2: Group that is interesting to me and is really good

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Speaker 2: old old fashioned scouting. I just like the makeup of

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Speaker 2: this group. And they do they they you run towards

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Speaker 2: the word pressure, and they do run towards the word expectations.

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Speaker 3: And I love that.

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, as a fan, if I'm a

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Speaker 2: baseball fan, I want to watch then till he's played baseball.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Joe, I think you have to start

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Speaker 1: with Bryce Harper when you think about the vibe of

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Speaker 1: that team and the way that they that they accept pressure,

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Speaker 1: actually want pressure as Bryce said himself that dude's been

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Speaker 1: playing with pressure literally his whole life. I mean since

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Speaker 1: he started playing baseball. He was always the best player

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Speaker 1: on the field. Of course, I wrote the story about

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Speaker 1: him where he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated

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Speaker 1: at the age of fifteen or sixteen. You know, people

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Speaker 1: out of jealousy when he's competing against them, always wanted

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Speaker 1: him to fail. The expectations were always sky high. He

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Speaker 1: never played a game in his life where he just

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Speaker 1: walked on the baseball field like another player. Everyone always

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Speaker 1: knew who he was, even if they had not met him.

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Speaker 1: They had heard of Bryce Harper throughout travel baseball, throughout

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Speaker 1: the minor leagues. He's played with that pressure, and as

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Speaker 1: he said, now he doesn't have that pressure anymore. It's

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Speaker 1: just simply about going out there and playing and winning.

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Speaker 1: And I think they they follow his lead. Now. You

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Speaker 1: and I were both on the Phillies before this postseason began.

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Speaker 1: I said, the key for me with the Phillies, and

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Speaker 1: I love everything you said about their makeup and it

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Speaker 1: does show up in a postseason environment. I said, the

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Speaker 1: key for me was Aaron Nola and boy, you watch

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Speaker 1: the way he's throwing the ball right now, Joe, They've

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Speaker 1: got that strong one two punch with Wheeler and Nola.

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Speaker 1: Give credit Catleb Cotham, the pitching coach. He straightened out

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Speaker 1: mechanically Nola at the last two starts of the regular season.

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Speaker 1: He's carried that into the postseason. Listen, you and I,

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Speaker 1: as I said, we're both on the Phillies before this began,

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Speaker 1: and they're playing the way that I thought they would play,

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Speaker 1: maybe even better because now, as you mentioned Nick Castianos,

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Speaker 1: he's hitting the back half of your lineup. There is

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Speaker 1: a complete force. So it's a deep lineup. They can

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Speaker 1: run and Steele bases. Trey Turner is playing out of

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Speaker 1: his Harper. We know he loves the big spot. But

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Speaker 1: the big key for me now is they got there

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Speaker 1: one and two in place and Wheeler and Nola.

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Speaker 2: But the other thing absolutely about the pitching. But I

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Speaker 2: was curious about how they're going to set up the

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Speaker 2: lineup yesterday because Atlanta had some left handed relievers and

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Speaker 2: they kind of went left right, left, right, and then

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Speaker 2: I think it was left right, right left. My point

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Speaker 2: is it got great balance up and down the line.

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Speaker 2: If he got marsh hitting eighth and he's turning it up.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I really love what Brandon's doing right. I'm

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Speaker 2: very happy for him. This young man. I had him

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Speaker 2: in Anaheim. He just needed to settle into a couple

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Speaker 2: of things. When they were making that acquisition, Boa had

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Speaker 2: called me. Larry asked me about him, and I said,

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Speaker 2: he just needs more information. All Brandon need is more

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Speaker 2: Brandon needs was more information. He's got the athleticism. And

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Speaker 2: my interpretation of him when I first saw him Marshi

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Speaker 2: with the Angels was that I love the way his

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Speaker 2: body moves. That's that's that was my first impression of him.

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Speaker 2: And it just he just glides balanced. It's just very

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Speaker 2: athletic about him. So he's at them. And then Nikki

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Speaker 2: Castellanos only hits lines and gaps. That was again my

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Speaker 2: interpretation of him. It's incredible. When he swings the bat,

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Speaker 2: the ball goes on either line or an either gap.

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Speaker 2: Normally it's he stationed the ball so long and he

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Speaker 2: turned around one hundred mile an hour fastball elevated yesterday elevated,

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Speaker 2: and that ball was crushed. But the moment he hit it,

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Speaker 2: obviously he could see his reaction and like I said, Stott,

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Speaker 2: I in real Mudo's it was being real Mudo right now.

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Speaker 2: This guy's caught a lot this year. But this guy,

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Speaker 2: he's a cornerstone of any organization or group. He's a

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Speaker 2: throwback catcher and I like him a lot. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm going on and on about him, but

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 3: I believe all of that. They're bouncing.

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Speaker 2: The lineup is so good, and I'm always going to

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Speaker 2: be curious because I like what their lefties.

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Speaker 3: Normally, I like to.

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Speaker 2: Had two rightings behind a significant lefty to try to

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Speaker 2: protect him, but they didn't.

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Speaker 3: They went away from that.

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Speaker 2: Part of it is their lefties hit lefties too. They're

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Speaker 2: not afraid of their lefties on lefties, and that's been

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Speaker 2: nurtured through the entire season. We talked about, you know,

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Speaker 2: the platoon advantage stuff, which really, you know, resonates nicely

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Speaker 2: and it sounds very good. But I'll tell you what

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Speaker 2: if you get like everyday guys that can go out

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Speaker 2: there left on left and show up and hold their

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Speaker 2: own and actually play really well. When he gets at

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Speaker 2: this time of the year, when the other team forces

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Speaker 2: you to turn your lineup over, they make you pinch

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Speaker 2: it earlier because of the game situation, I got to

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Speaker 2: go to my platoon guy. Then that sets up into

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Speaker 2: your advantage, and the latter part of the game is

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Speaker 2: you know, of course this guy's not going to come

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Speaker 2: through all the time, so you can flip them and

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Speaker 2: get back to advantage you based on the latter part

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Speaker 2: of the game and your relief pitcher. So all this

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Speaker 2: stuff is playing because the Phillies go out there, they.

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Speaker 3: Play their guys.

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Speaker 2: The guys have confidence against lefties two and that's the

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Speaker 2: difference maker for me.

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Speaker 1: Hey Joe, watching Game four of the NLDS Philly closes

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Speaker 1: it out against Atlanta and the way it ended, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't help but flash back to Game seven of the

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen World Series because the game came down to

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Speaker 1: Matt Strom, who had Tuesdays all year pitching to Von

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Speaker 1: griss basically was in Triple A all year, and of

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Speaker 1: course Game seven and twenty sixteen was like Montgomery with

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Speaker 1: no saves in his career pitching to Michael Martinez. Martinez

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Speaker 1: was in the game because Terry Francona went to his

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Speaker 1: bench to take Coco Crisp out of the game in

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Speaker 1: a possible sack fly situation, and grissom was in the

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Speaker 1: game because Brian Snigger started running through his bench to

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Speaker 1: try to get this game tied, and it went back

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Speaker 1: to a decision he had. Curious to your take on this,

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Speaker 1: He had Michael Harris up against a struggling Jose Alvarado

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Speaker 1: and chose to hit Travis Darnault, which brought Craig Kimbrel

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Speaker 1: into the game, and Darnel wounded up getting a walk,

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Speaker 1: and then Kimberle got Acunya. By the way, Acunya had

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Speaker 1: three pitches to hit in that bet. He did not

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Speaker 1: have a good series. Kimberle left a couple of fastballs

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Speaker 1: over the middle. He's actually a little bit late on those,

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Speaker 1: but that's how Grissom wound up getting in as kind

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Speaker 1: of the twenty sixth man to end the game there.

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Speaker 1: To me, it was a questionable call. Alva was struggling.

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Speaker 1: You knew if you brought Darnaud up to hit for

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Speaker 1: Michael Harris that you were going to get right on

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Speaker 1: right Kimberle on Darnault. But I understand the thinking that

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Speaker 1: he thought that was his opportunity right there, and he

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Speaker 1: kind of damned the ninth inning because you don't know

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Speaker 1: what's going to come at that point.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm betting, I'm betting dollars to donuts that he

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Speaker 2: like Darnaul and Kimberle much better than he liked Harris

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Speaker 2: and Alvarado, because Harris has been struggling offensively, there's no question.

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Speaker 2: And Darnaul, I mean, this guy hits home runs in

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Speaker 2: the postseason, and Kimberle's not sharp. I mean, I watched

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Speaker 2: him yesterday and I've been watching him. Agreed, He's making

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Speaker 2: a lot of mistakes. He's pulling a lot of pitches

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Speaker 2: out of his zone. So I think at that point

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Speaker 2: that actually wanted Kimberl in the game also, So these

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Speaker 2: are the kind of things you think about, who's bet

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Speaker 2: what's the better opportunity is the lefty on our lefty

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Speaker 2: or yeah, they're going to bring Kimberl in. But I

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Speaker 2: like Darnell's chances better, right, swinging the bat better, and

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Speaker 2: the guy likes hit home runs this time of the year.

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Speaker 2: And then furthermore, the people that right after him, the

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Speaker 2: pinch hitter, here comes a kuna and he swung at

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Speaker 2: a pitch underneath him.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't believe that one. I don't even know what

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Speaker 3: that was A.

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Speaker 2: Changeable whatever they Kimber threw that or a backdoor like

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Speaker 2: a backup breaking ball.

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Speaker 1: That was a backup breaking ball, exactly, a front door

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Speaker 1: breaking ball that he just he lost, you slipped out

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Speaker 1: of his hand and yeah, that was well out of

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Speaker 1: his own.

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Speaker 2: That was the pitch I mean, I mean, although he

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Speaker 2: almost hit went out anyway, but that was the pitch

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Speaker 2: because otherwise he gets it, he gets a much better count.

431
00:20:30,438 --> 00:20:32,638
Speaker 2: He got a much more aggressive posture at that point

432
00:20:32,678 --> 00:20:35,518
Speaker 2: of speaking of a kuna and that that that pitch

433
00:20:35,558 --> 00:20:37,438
Speaker 2: to me kind of turned it around because he actually

434
00:20:37,478 --> 00:20:40,798
Speaker 2: looked like like non plus a little bit uh a

435
00:20:40,918 --> 00:20:43,998
Speaker 2: kuna did after that swing. So I would have done

436
00:20:43,998 --> 00:20:45,758
Speaker 2: the same thing. I think Snid did the right thing.

437
00:20:46,238 --> 00:20:48,798
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. Well, we talked to you

438
00:20:48,838 --> 00:20:52,358
Speaker 1: talked about Brandon Marsh and only needed some for some information.

439
00:20:52,518 --> 00:20:54,518
Speaker 1: Well he's got well, I think one of the best

440
00:20:54,558 --> 00:20:57,558
Speaker 1: hitting coaches in baseball there with the Phillies and Kevin Long.

441
00:20:58,198 --> 00:21:01,598
Speaker 1: Kevin Long is a difference maker. Brent Strom pitching goes

442
00:21:01,638 --> 00:21:04,798
Speaker 1: for Arizona Diamondbacks is a difference. I mean, you get

443
00:21:04,798 --> 00:21:07,278
Speaker 1: to this part of the season, folks, and it is

444
00:21:07,358 --> 00:21:11,398
Speaker 1: a lot about getting your guys ready having a game plan,

445
00:21:11,438 --> 00:21:13,558
Speaker 1: whether it's on the mound or in the batter's box,

446
00:21:14,158 --> 00:21:17,518
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be fascinating to watch those two essentially

447
00:21:17,598 --> 00:21:19,878
Speaker 1: go at it. You think about the Phillies offense against

448
00:21:19,878 --> 00:21:22,438
Speaker 1: Arizona's pitching staff. Those two guys have been around the

449
00:21:22,438 --> 00:21:25,358
Speaker 1: block a couple of times, know what they're doing. And

450
00:21:25,398 --> 00:21:27,398
Speaker 1: when we get back, I want to tell you about

451
00:21:27,438 --> 00:21:31,518
Speaker 1: a difference maker in the American League Championship Series and

452
00:21:31,558 --> 00:21:45,398
Speaker 1: it's a player, not a coach. Hey, welcome back to

453
00:21:45,438 --> 00:21:48,838
Speaker 1: the Book of Joe podcast. The American League Championship Series.

454
00:21:48,998 --> 00:21:52,998
Speaker 1: It's all Texas, Texas State Championship besides the American League

455
00:21:52,998 --> 00:21:56,918
Speaker 1: Penance on the line. It's the Rangers and the Astros.

456
00:21:56,958 --> 00:21:59,518
Speaker 1: And I mentioned difference makers. Joe and I do believe

457
00:22:00,038 --> 00:22:01,838
Speaker 1: that we get to this time of year and there's

458
00:22:01,838 --> 00:22:05,958
Speaker 1: so much information at the coaches have so much of

459
00:22:05,998 --> 00:22:09,358
Speaker 1: an impact on what happened. You see a lot of conversations.

460
00:22:09,398 --> 00:22:12,758
Speaker 1: You see it thurny regular season, but especially in the postseason.

461
00:22:12,878 --> 00:22:15,198
Speaker 1: You'll see Brent Strom go out to the pitching mound

462
00:22:15,398 --> 00:22:18,478
Speaker 1: whenever it's a critical spot in the game, and he

463
00:22:18,558 --> 00:22:21,598
Speaker 1: will run those conversations. That's not a listening session for

464
00:22:21,678 --> 00:22:24,078
Speaker 1: that coach. And the same with Kevin Long on the

465
00:22:24,118 --> 00:22:26,198
Speaker 1: other side. You look at the left handed hitters especially,

466
00:22:26,238 --> 00:22:28,438
Speaker 1: He's always been great with left handed hitters, and that's

467
00:22:28,718 --> 00:22:32,078
Speaker 1: that's Philly's DNA. As you said, lefties don't bother their

468
00:22:32,118 --> 00:22:36,518
Speaker 1: lefties hitters in the ALCS. I'm looking at Martin Maldonado.

469
00:22:37,118 --> 00:22:40,118
Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing what he does in the course

470
00:22:40,118 --> 00:22:42,598
Speaker 1: of a game to run a game from behind the plate.

471
00:22:43,198 --> 00:22:46,718
Speaker 1: You will not see Euston pitchers shake him. They have

472
00:22:46,958 --> 00:22:50,798
Speaker 1: total trust in what he does behind the plate. And

473
00:22:51,278 --> 00:22:55,958
Speaker 1: I'm telling you there's nobody in baseball history, nobody who

474
00:22:55,958 --> 00:22:58,558
Speaker 1: has had as many at bats as Martin Maldonado in

475
00:22:58,598 --> 00:23:02,078
Speaker 1: his career and been such a poor hitter in terms

476
00:23:02,078 --> 00:23:04,198
Speaker 1: of batting average. And the reason for that is they

477
00:23:04,278 --> 00:23:06,558
Speaker 1: keep running his name out there in the lineup because

478
00:23:06,598 --> 00:23:09,198
Speaker 1: he's a difference maker behind the plate. I'm telling you,

479
00:23:09,238 --> 00:23:10,558
Speaker 1: I've seen it so many series.

480
00:23:10,678 --> 00:23:10,838
Speaker 3: Joe.

481
00:23:10,918 --> 00:23:14,878
Speaker 1: I talked to Carlos Correa after the Twins were eliminated,

482
00:23:15,238 --> 00:23:17,478
Speaker 1: and when I asked him, why is this team the

483
00:23:17,518 --> 00:23:20,118
Speaker 1: astro is so difficult to take out? Obviously, he spent,

484
00:23:20,438 --> 00:23:22,518
Speaker 1: you know, the last six seven years with the Astros.

485
00:23:23,198 --> 00:23:26,478
Speaker 1: He said, it's Martine Maldonado. He said, I hate to

486
00:23:26,478 --> 00:23:28,638
Speaker 1: give him credit because I know you don't going to

487
00:23:28,678 --> 00:23:30,838
Speaker 1: see and talk to him in the offseason and he's

488
00:23:30,838 --> 00:23:33,238
Speaker 1: going to rub it in. But he's the difference. He

489
00:23:34,078 --> 00:23:37,958
Speaker 1: exposes weaknesses of hitters like nobody else. He pitches backwards

490
00:23:38,038 --> 00:23:41,398
Speaker 1: in key spots. And think about this, Joe. The last

491
00:23:41,438 --> 00:23:46,918
Speaker 1: pitch a game for the alec Or al Ds, full

492
00:23:46,958 --> 00:23:51,238
Speaker 1: count to Max Kepler with Carlos Correa sitting on deck,

493
00:23:51,678 --> 00:23:54,478
Speaker 1: Presley did not want to get to Correa. He said

494
00:23:54,478 --> 00:23:56,598
Speaker 1: that after the game, all of us watching the game

495
00:23:56,718 --> 00:23:59,918
Speaker 1: new that, And it's a full count. He just struck

496
00:23:59,958 --> 00:24:03,638
Speaker 1: out two hitters on full, full count breaking pitches, and

497
00:24:03,678 --> 00:24:06,278
Speaker 1: it's Max Kepler at a full count. During up to that

498
00:24:06,318 --> 00:24:09,678
Speaker 1: point in the year, Presley had thrown breaking balls eighty

499
00:24:09,798 --> 00:24:11,798
Speaker 1: five percent of the time that he gets to a

500
00:24:11,798 --> 00:24:16,678
Speaker 1: full count. So what does he throw? Fastball? Kepler absolutely

501
00:24:16,718 --> 00:24:19,838
Speaker 1: locked up, frozen, called strike three. That's Martine Maldonado.

502
00:24:20,358 --> 00:24:24,398
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're one hundred percent right about that. And that's

503
00:24:25,478 --> 00:24:29,598
Speaker 2: just paying attention. That's that's eyeballs, that's feel I saw

504
00:24:29,638 --> 00:24:31,438
Speaker 2: the exact same thing, and I said, damn, that was

505
00:24:31,478 --> 00:24:33,678
Speaker 2: good because that the hitter had no chance at that

506
00:24:33,678 --> 00:24:37,638
Speaker 2: particular juncture. Yeah, Maldonado is absolutely a throwback kind of

507
00:24:37,638 --> 00:24:42,358
Speaker 2: a player catcher. He's the rocking chair for that entire

508
00:24:42,558 --> 00:24:46,718
Speaker 2: entire pitching staff. If he's back there, they feel good

509
00:24:46,758 --> 00:24:48,558
Speaker 2: about it. You don't care what he does offensively.

510
00:24:48,638 --> 00:24:50,718
Speaker 3: He'll come up with a big hit now and then,

511
00:24:50,998 --> 00:24:53,838
Speaker 3: but that's the last thing you're concerned about. And I

512
00:24:53,878 --> 00:24:54,198
Speaker 3: love that.

513
00:24:54,238 --> 00:24:55,838
Speaker 2: I love that that he still fits in and that

514
00:24:55,878 --> 00:24:58,718
Speaker 2: he's still relevant in our game today. On the other side,

515
00:24:58,758 --> 00:25:00,558
Speaker 2: Real Mudo is kind of like that too, although Real

516
00:25:00,598 --> 00:25:03,278
Speaker 2: Modo is going to supply more offense and he could run,

517
00:25:04,038 --> 00:25:06,238
Speaker 2: uh part of this guy's packages that he he could.

518
00:25:06,318 --> 00:25:08,398
Speaker 2: He is a very good runner. And how about the

519
00:25:08,638 --> 00:25:12,998
Speaker 2: kid now with the Diamondbacks, the catcher.

520
00:25:13,038 --> 00:25:16,318
Speaker 1: Gabby Montero. Yeah, my goodness, I've been He is impressive

521
00:25:16,598 --> 00:25:17,238
Speaker 1: on both sides.

522
00:25:17,398 --> 00:25:18,918
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been watching this because you know, I didn't

523
00:25:18,918 --> 00:25:20,638
Speaker 2: get the chance to see them a lot this year,

524
00:25:20,638 --> 00:25:23,638
Speaker 2: and uh, that kid provides a lot of energy and

525
00:25:23,678 --> 00:25:25,278
Speaker 2: he could really play for you know, for me, for

526
00:25:25,398 --> 00:25:28,358
Speaker 2: us we had I was always I've always been a wilsontrarassman.

527
00:25:28,358 --> 00:25:31,158
Speaker 2: I always thought we should plug into him and Wilson, uh,

528
00:25:31,238 --> 00:25:33,318
Speaker 2: you know, still learning possibly how to call the game

529
00:25:33,318 --> 00:25:33,918
Speaker 2: a little bit better.

530
00:25:33,958 --> 00:25:35,278
Speaker 3: But he's gotten better at that too.

531
00:25:35,558 --> 00:25:37,958
Speaker 2: But I just like the catching position to plug into

532
00:25:38,358 --> 00:25:42,558
Speaker 2: when you have when you have a pertinent catcher, somebody

533
00:25:42,558 --> 00:25:45,198
Speaker 2: that that for me, that would mean that he has

534
00:25:45,278 --> 00:25:48,398
Speaker 2: to have or be more concerned about his pitching staff

535
00:25:48,398 --> 00:25:48,678
Speaker 2: than he.

536
00:25:48,638 --> 00:25:50,198
Speaker 3: Is concerned about himself and his hitting.

537
00:25:50,598 --> 00:25:52,638
Speaker 2: When you get that guy behind the plate, that's when

538
00:25:52,678 --> 00:25:56,038
Speaker 2: your pitching staff could really take off and become a

539
00:25:56,398 --> 00:26:00,638
Speaker 2: dominator dynamic. And I've always I've had really good catching

540
00:26:00,678 --> 00:26:05,038
Speaker 2: prospects historically, uh, every organization and I've been in, whether

541
00:26:05,078 --> 00:26:07,998
Speaker 2: it's the miners or the major leagues, But if they're

542
00:26:07,998 --> 00:26:11,358
Speaker 2: not committed to that pitching staff, it's somehow there's just

543
00:26:11,398 --> 00:26:13,918
Speaker 2: a disconnect there and it never really wants to work out.

544
00:26:15,798 --> 00:26:18,358
Speaker 2: Pictures when a pitcher as a catcher, and the pitcher

545
00:26:18,438 --> 00:26:21,358
Speaker 2: says to you and he really means that he really

546
00:26:21,878 --> 00:26:23,638
Speaker 2: likes throwing to you, and I want to throw to you,

547
00:26:23,958 --> 00:26:25,918
Speaker 2: or he declares I want to throw to so and so,

548
00:26:26,518 --> 00:26:29,358
Speaker 2: My goodness, there's no higher compliment to a catcher in

549
00:26:29,398 --> 00:26:32,318
Speaker 2: baseball that when his pitching staff declares I want him

550
00:26:32,318 --> 00:26:34,838
Speaker 2: behind the plate, that there's I don't even know how

551
00:26:34,878 --> 00:26:36,798
Speaker 2: you can evaluate that except that you're gonna have a

552
00:26:36,838 --> 00:26:40,478
Speaker 2: much better pitching staff. So these guys you're right about Meldonado,

553
00:26:40,518 --> 00:26:42,838
Speaker 2: he brings it out. I think real Mooda does. The

554
00:26:42,878 --> 00:26:47,478
Speaker 2: young man with the Diamondbacks probably will eventually, and maybe

555
00:26:47,478 --> 00:26:49,318
Speaker 2: he's doing it right now. I just haven't watched them enough.

556
00:26:49,358 --> 00:26:53,758
Speaker 2: But that catching position is so it's just the quarterback.

557
00:26:54,318 --> 00:26:56,358
Speaker 2: Is that the quarterbacks at the middle linebacker. I've always

558
00:26:56,358 --> 00:26:58,678
Speaker 2: have a hard time with that because you know it's

559
00:26:58,718 --> 00:27:01,278
Speaker 2: you're playing defense, but you're still calling the plays. It's

560
00:27:01,318 --> 00:27:04,478
Speaker 2: a combination of both. So you're right on with that

561
00:27:04,798 --> 00:27:08,438
Speaker 2: last point. Coaches that make an impact. My first playoff

562
00:27:08,478 --> 00:27:09,758
Speaker 2: was in two thousand and two.

563
00:27:09,718 --> 00:27:13,798
Speaker 3: And we're in New York and Mickey Hatcher love love me.

564
00:27:13,838 --> 00:27:17,398
Speaker 2: So Mickey Hatcher, We're in a small coaches room having

565
00:27:17,398 --> 00:27:21,078
Speaker 2: our team meeting with the position players, and Mickey can

566
00:27:21,118 --> 00:27:24,918
Speaker 2: get really emotional, and he just implored our guys just do.

567
00:27:24,958 --> 00:27:26,958
Speaker 3: One thing, just do one thing only.

568
00:27:27,478 --> 00:27:29,118
Speaker 2: And I'm sitting there listening. I want you to do

569
00:27:29,198 --> 00:27:34,038
Speaker 2: one thing, and that's just run hard. Always run hard.

570
00:27:34,558 --> 00:27:36,918
Speaker 2: He said, if you do that, you'll never embarrass yourself

571
00:27:37,358 --> 00:27:39,798
Speaker 2: and the outcome is going to be good. And I

572
00:27:39,838 --> 00:27:42,998
Speaker 2: sat on the floor and I listened to Mickey say that.

573
00:27:43,158 --> 00:27:45,678
Speaker 2: And who's been in a lot of different playoffs scenarios,

574
00:27:46,198 --> 00:27:48,518
Speaker 2: that one little speech by Mickey I thought was really

575
00:27:49,318 --> 00:27:52,118
Speaker 2: helpful to our entire group. And of course that's something

576
00:27:52,198 --> 00:27:55,878
Speaker 2: I've carried through with all my managing. But Betty Black

577
00:27:55,998 --> 00:27:58,398
Speaker 2: as a pigeon coach, very dynamic. Ron Rennicky is a

578
00:27:58,438 --> 00:28:01,678
Speaker 2: third base coach. Wow, Rags did some stuff out there.

579
00:28:01,678 --> 00:28:04,678
Speaker 2: People have no idea, And of course Afraido at first

580
00:28:04,678 --> 00:28:07,878
Speaker 2: base Grip. We had this little tranulation going on among us.

581
00:28:07,918 --> 00:28:11,798
Speaker 2: And yeah, I've always thought that that coaching staff in

582
00:28:11,798 --> 00:28:15,998
Speaker 2: two thousand and two really help get that team over

583
00:28:16,078 --> 00:28:18,758
Speaker 2: the hump, whereas I've been on some coaching staffs that

584
00:28:18,838 --> 00:28:21,318
Speaker 2: could work exactly the opposite and tear it apart.

585
00:28:21,558 --> 00:28:24,278
Speaker 1: Yeah, a good point. That was an amazing coaching staff,

586
00:28:24,318 --> 00:28:26,958
Speaker 1: And of course many of you guys went on to

587
00:28:27,038 --> 00:28:31,478
Speaker 1: manage successfully other major league teams. You know, Mardonnado is

588
00:28:31,518 --> 00:28:34,478
Speaker 1: going to catch every game Verlander wants to throw to him.

589
00:28:34,638 --> 00:28:38,638
Speaker 1: Valdez always throws to him, Javier always throws to him.

590
00:28:38,638 --> 00:28:41,678
Speaker 1: Maybe if you get to a game four and Dusty

591
00:28:41,838 --> 00:28:45,518
Speaker 1: wants to go with the JP France, you might see

592
00:28:45,718 --> 00:28:48,478
Speaker 1: on your Diaz behind the plate, just to give Maldonado

593
00:28:48,518 --> 00:28:50,678
Speaker 1: a day because you are looking at three straight games

594
00:28:50,678 --> 00:28:53,438
Speaker 1: in the middle of a seven game series. But otherwise,

595
00:28:53,878 --> 00:28:56,558
Speaker 1: you know, Dusty, I can't say he took heat for it,

596
00:28:56,638 --> 00:28:58,998
Speaker 1: but a lot of Astros fans wanted to see the

597
00:28:59,078 --> 00:29:01,998
Speaker 1: kid Diaz behind the plate because he does have some pop.

598
00:29:02,478 --> 00:29:05,878
Speaker 1: He's going to be a really good major league player

599
00:29:05,958 --> 00:29:08,958
Speaker 1: and catcher, there's no question about it. But he's not

600
00:29:09,118 --> 00:29:16,038
Speaker 1: ready to call a major league playoff game above Martin Maldonado.

601
00:29:16,158 --> 00:29:19,278
Speaker 1: It's just not there. I mean, you know, he played,

602
00:29:19,318 --> 00:29:21,638
Speaker 1: he had got a start as at DH the other day,

603
00:29:21,678 --> 00:29:23,878
Speaker 1: one over five with four punch outs. But it's more

604
00:29:23,918 --> 00:29:27,678
Speaker 1: about running the pitching staff, and there's no way you're

605
00:29:27,718 --> 00:29:30,358
Speaker 1: not going to put Maldonado out there. He's a weapon

606
00:29:30,438 --> 00:29:34,238
Speaker 1: behind the plate. So when fans start looking at these numbers,

607
00:29:34,318 --> 00:29:37,078
Speaker 1: Joe and they see there's a young offensive player like

608
00:29:37,158 --> 00:29:38,998
Speaker 1: Diaz and you want to get you know, a little

609
00:29:39,038 --> 00:29:41,838
Speaker 1: more pop in the lineup as opposed to Maldonado, who's

610
00:29:41,878 --> 00:29:46,358
Speaker 1: basically a two oh seven career hitter. That's not where

611
00:29:46,358 --> 00:29:48,798
Speaker 1: the value is. And you know as a manager, as

612
00:29:48,798 --> 00:29:51,478
Speaker 1: a former catcher, what that guy can do for you

613
00:29:51,598 --> 00:29:55,478
Speaker 1: behind the plate in a postseason environment, especially, you can't

614
00:29:55,558 --> 00:29:57,478
Speaker 1: run away from that. You've got to embrace it.

615
00:29:57,958 --> 00:30:03,318
Speaker 2: Be careful if you wish for right. The thing about Moldonado,

616
00:30:03,958 --> 00:30:05,918
Speaker 2: you've seen it, and I know I've seen everybody's recognized it.

617
00:30:05,998 --> 00:30:07,518
Speaker 2: How he walks out to the mound when he has

618
00:30:07,558 --> 00:30:11,798
Speaker 2: to walk out to the mount there's an a severe

619
00:30:11,918 --> 00:30:15,358
Speaker 2: calm about him. He's so calm, and it really reeks

620
00:30:15,358 --> 00:30:17,918
Speaker 2: of Yaddi Molina what he did with the cardinal pitching stuff.

621
00:30:17,918 --> 00:30:18,998
Speaker 3: And I Alp often thought.

622
00:30:18,798 --> 00:30:22,838
Speaker 2: That Meldonado's kind of patterned himself after Yadi A in

623
00:30:22,878 --> 00:30:26,678
Speaker 2: regards to his mannerisms and how he moves, and there's a.

624
00:30:26,718 --> 00:30:27,838
Speaker 3: Calmness about him.

625
00:30:28,278 --> 00:30:30,398
Speaker 2: And for all these people that are clamoring for the

626
00:30:30,438 --> 00:30:33,238
Speaker 2: young catcher to play, go ass the pitching staff what

627
00:30:33,318 --> 00:30:36,558
Speaker 2: they think. I'm from every starter to the last guy

628
00:30:36,558 --> 00:30:40,358
Speaker 2: in the bullpen, and that's what matters the most when

629
00:30:40,358 --> 00:30:42,478
Speaker 2: it comes down to the offense. They have eight other

630
00:30:42,518 --> 00:30:44,838
Speaker 2: guys that they really need to garner their offense from.

631
00:30:44,838 --> 00:30:47,038
Speaker 2: If they have to re live the catcher this one

632
00:30:47,078 --> 00:30:49,758
Speaker 2: spot to provide the offense that they need to win

633
00:30:49,798 --> 00:30:52,598
Speaker 2: the games, they're missing the point because what he does

634
00:30:52,878 --> 00:30:56,718
Speaker 2: in regards to defending against runs from the other team,

635
00:30:56,838 --> 00:31:00,478
Speaker 2: run prevention, what he's able to do that, that's that's

636
00:31:00,518 --> 00:31:02,398
Speaker 2: the true value is that is that the equivalent of

637
00:31:02,398 --> 00:31:05,638
Speaker 2: a two run homer is a you know, blooper derived

638
00:31:05,998 --> 00:31:07,958
Speaker 2: with renaissants second and third and two outs.

639
00:31:08,278 --> 00:31:10,198
Speaker 3: What is that? What is it? How do you how

640
00:31:10,198 --> 00:31:10,958
Speaker 3: do you quantify that?

641
00:31:10,998 --> 00:31:14,238
Speaker 2: How do you how do you equalize that between what

642
00:31:14,358 --> 00:31:16,278
Speaker 2: he can do offensive and what he can do defensively.

643
00:31:16,558 --> 00:31:18,398
Speaker 2: That's how I look at it. Well, my catchers aren't

644
00:31:18,398 --> 00:31:21,598
Speaker 2: really good offensively. How does he drive in his runs otherwise?

645
00:31:21,638 --> 00:31:23,678
Speaker 2: How about balls in the dirt that he blocks? How

646
00:31:23,678 --> 00:31:26,398
Speaker 2: about controlling the running game? How about permitting your pitcher

647
00:31:26,558 --> 00:31:28,238
Speaker 2: just to worry about the hit or not worrying about

648
00:31:28,278 --> 00:31:31,078
Speaker 2: the guy first space because he does such a good job.

649
00:31:30,878 --> 00:31:32,118
Speaker 3: Of throwing and being accurate.

650
00:31:32,398 --> 00:31:34,438
Speaker 2: These are the kind of things that I mean, that's

651
00:31:34,478 --> 00:31:37,038
Speaker 2: that's part of my issue. When you're breaking down a game.

652
00:31:37,798 --> 00:31:39,718
Speaker 2: Get into it. If you really want to break it down,

653
00:31:39,758 --> 00:31:42,198
Speaker 2: get into it. Just because a manager brings in a

654
00:31:42,198 --> 00:31:44,118
Speaker 2: relief pitcher and a guy gets a hit doesn't mean

655
00:31:44,118 --> 00:31:47,118
Speaker 2: it's a bad decision. How about everything I'm just talking

656
00:31:47,118 --> 00:31:49,798
Speaker 2: about there regarding the catcher and why you utilized him,

657
00:31:50,158 --> 00:31:53,518
Speaker 2: or the move that you talked about with Harris hitting

658
00:31:53,518 --> 00:31:55,798
Speaker 2: and the lefty on the mount and bringing the pinch it,

659
00:31:55,918 --> 00:31:58,038
Speaker 2: or why did he do that? What are all the

660
00:31:58,078 --> 00:32:00,558
Speaker 2: ancillary components of that that you never even talk about.

661
00:32:00,798 --> 00:32:03,118
Speaker 2: That's what it is, and that's why Moldonado is so

662
00:32:03,118 --> 00:32:06,678
Speaker 2: important because this guy's just he's just dripping with intangibles.

663
00:32:07,158 --> 00:32:11,198
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about how Houston can beat Texas, because

664
00:32:11,238 --> 00:32:14,758
Speaker 1: you know Texas's path to winning a postseason series is

665
00:32:14,798 --> 00:32:16,718
Speaker 1: going to be through their offense. I mean, that is

666
00:32:16,798 --> 00:32:19,678
Speaker 1: just a dynamic offense. You mentioned the kid Evan Carter.

667
00:32:19,838 --> 00:32:22,558
Speaker 1: To me, that's a lineup changer. I mean, he will

668
00:32:22,598 --> 00:32:24,838
Speaker 1: not go outside of the strike zone. But at the

669
00:32:24,838 --> 00:32:28,358
Speaker 1: same time, he's selectively aggressive. If you throw a cookie

670
00:32:28,398 --> 00:32:30,598
Speaker 1: in there, he's not taking for the sake of taking.

671
00:32:30,638 --> 00:32:34,398
Speaker 1: He's he's made that lineup so much deeper. So to me,

672
00:32:34,478 --> 00:32:38,238
Speaker 1: it's about controlling Texas's offense. How does Houston do that?

673
00:32:38,638 --> 00:32:41,118
Speaker 1: Think about this, and again this goes back to Maldonado.

674
00:32:41,838 --> 00:32:44,198
Speaker 1: In the last two years, you're going to see more

675
00:32:44,238 --> 00:32:47,758
Speaker 1: fastballs in the postseason than in the regular season. That's

676
00:32:47,758 --> 00:32:50,158
Speaker 1: because you're going to see more power relievers in the game,

677
00:32:50,238 --> 00:32:53,358
Speaker 1: right They're going to pick up more innings. Managers quicker

678
00:32:53,398 --> 00:32:56,718
Speaker 1: to go to those power arms, velocity plays. We get that,

679
00:32:57,238 --> 00:32:59,558
Speaker 1: But in each of the last two years, the Astros

680
00:32:59,598 --> 00:33:03,078
Speaker 1: actually throw fewer fastballs in the postseason than they do

681
00:33:03,118 --> 00:33:06,598
Speaker 1: in the regular season. That's Meldonado working backwards with the

682
00:33:06,638 --> 00:33:10,078
Speaker 1: staff that can control the breaking stuff. Watch Verlander pitch.

683
00:33:10,558 --> 00:33:13,118
Speaker 1: You know, if you're thinking that's Justin Verlander throwing high

684
00:33:13,118 --> 00:33:16,518
Speaker 1: four seemers at ninety seven, you know you're going back

685
00:33:16,518 --> 00:33:19,078
Speaker 1: to two thousand and six. That's not Justin Verlander. His

686
00:33:19,198 --> 00:33:21,838
Speaker 1: breaking stuff is off the charts good right now, and

687
00:33:21,838 --> 00:33:23,398
Speaker 1: he goes to it more than he ever has in

688
00:33:23,438 --> 00:33:26,158
Speaker 1: his career. So I expect you're going to see a

689
00:33:26,278 --> 00:33:29,358
Speaker 1: ton of breaking stuff against the Texas lineup. This is

690
00:33:29,398 --> 00:33:32,158
Speaker 1: what Houston does. They're good at it. It's Maldonado, the

691
00:33:32,198 --> 00:33:34,638
Speaker 1: way he calls a game and I know Joe here

692
00:33:34,678 --> 00:33:36,318
Speaker 1: on the show. In the past, you've talked a lot

693
00:33:36,318 --> 00:33:40,118
Speaker 1: about Corey Seger. Don't throw him a strike, controlling the

694
00:33:40,118 --> 00:33:43,198
Speaker 1: Texas lineup starts with Corey Seger, and I'm telling you

695
00:33:44,078 --> 00:33:46,358
Speaker 1: he's gonna see a ton of spin in this series.

696
00:33:46,838 --> 00:33:49,798
Speaker 3: Yeah, talking about all that. The thing that stands out

697
00:33:49,918 --> 00:33:52,918
Speaker 3: about the Astros to me, I just wrote.

698
00:33:52,678 --> 00:33:54,958
Speaker 2: Down three of their starters, Kyle Dez, Verlander, and Javier

699
00:33:55,038 --> 00:33:57,958
Speaker 2: I think all three of these guys have reverse split

700
00:33:57,998 --> 00:34:00,918
Speaker 2: in them. I think, like believe it or not, fran Bruvaldez,

701
00:34:00,918 --> 00:34:04,598
Speaker 2: I would start more lefties against them. This guy, that

702
00:34:04,638 --> 00:34:07,518
Speaker 2: breaking ball underneath his change up and then his elevated

703
00:34:07,518 --> 00:34:09,998
Speaker 2: fastball really plays well against righty's bar Lander. Watch how

704
00:34:09,998 --> 00:34:12,078
Speaker 2: he gets underneath lefties with that breaking ball that you're

705
00:34:12,118 --> 00:34:14,878
Speaker 2: talking about. And Christian Hobber, I know he's getting hit

706
00:34:14,878 --> 00:34:17,918
Speaker 2: by lefties this year, but this guy still when he's right,

707
00:34:17,998 --> 00:34:20,838
Speaker 2: he's able to elevate and do different things the left

708
00:34:20,838 --> 00:34:23,158
Speaker 2: tended hitters. I don't know what got him off of

709
00:34:23,158 --> 00:34:24,638
Speaker 2: his game, because when I first saw him, he was

710
00:34:24,638 --> 00:34:28,438
Speaker 2: more reversed in straight up I mean, being more conventional.

711
00:34:28,438 --> 00:34:30,958
Speaker 2: I would I always pay attention to this with pitching

712
00:34:30,998 --> 00:34:34,038
Speaker 2: staffs in lineup construction and moves that you want to

713
00:34:34,038 --> 00:34:37,398
Speaker 2: make during the game. So another thing that I think

714
00:34:37,438 --> 00:34:43,198
Speaker 2: should be spoken about more readily is that whereas the

715
00:34:43,278 --> 00:34:46,118
Speaker 2: conventional pitchers, you know, wrighty on right, you know I

716
00:34:46,158 --> 00:34:47,798
Speaker 2: want right he's on my right he's and lefties on

717
00:34:47,798 --> 00:34:50,838
Speaker 2: my lefties, sometimes it works the other way. I know

718
00:34:50,878 --> 00:34:52,758
Speaker 2: in the last yeison against the Twins, we talked about it.

719
00:34:52,838 --> 00:34:55,878
Speaker 2: Ber Lander against a couple of those lefties in that

720
00:34:55,918 --> 00:34:59,118
Speaker 2: lineup for the Twins was devastating. They were like one

721
00:34:59,158 --> 00:35:02,438
Speaker 2: for fifteen and one for sixteen. You'll remember the names

722
00:35:02,438 --> 00:35:05,198
Speaker 2: of the hitters that better than I. But I look

723
00:35:05,198 --> 00:35:07,838
Speaker 2: at stuff like that. I like to look at reverse splits.

724
00:35:08,718 --> 00:35:10,438
Speaker 2: I think Jordan Montgomery's a guy that can get a

725
00:35:10,518 --> 00:35:14,878
Speaker 2: right hand route, no question, as an example. These are

726
00:35:14,918 --> 00:35:17,358
Speaker 2: the kind of things that are interesting to me. And

727
00:35:19,078 --> 00:35:22,318
Speaker 2: if I could get my when I have reverse split

728
00:35:22,718 --> 00:35:25,798
Speaker 2: pitchers against, I really want to pay attention to my

729
00:35:25,838 --> 00:35:28,278
Speaker 2: lineup construction at that point is gonna make a big difference.

730
00:35:28,718 --> 00:35:30,958
Speaker 1: Yeah, and don't forget we'll probably I would think I

731
00:35:31,078 --> 00:35:33,318
Speaker 1: expect to see Max Scherzer in this series for the

732
00:35:33,318 --> 00:35:37,598
Speaker 1: Texas Rangers. That's another possible difference maker. Listen, he hasn't

733
00:35:37,638 --> 00:35:40,118
Speaker 1: pitched for a while with that strain, the muscle strain,

734
00:35:40,238 --> 00:35:45,678
Speaker 1: but he did throw to a live session simulated game

735
00:35:45,718 --> 00:35:47,878
Speaker 1: the other day. That tells me he's good to go.

736
00:35:48,238 --> 00:35:50,598
Speaker 1: I mean, unless he came out of that session really

737
00:35:50,638 --> 00:35:54,998
Speaker 1: feeling totally sore. I just don't see Max with a

738
00:35:55,038 --> 00:35:57,838
Speaker 1: possible seven game series lined up here saying no, I

739
00:35:57,878 --> 00:36:00,238
Speaker 1: can't go. He's going to take the ball, and then

740
00:36:00,278 --> 00:36:03,038
Speaker 1: it's up to Bruce Bochie to decide how he wants

741
00:36:03,038 --> 00:36:06,118
Speaker 1: to line him up. To me, Joe, I always look

742
00:36:06,158 --> 00:36:09,278
Speaker 1: at game three, your Game three starter, as a huge

743
00:36:09,358 --> 00:36:11,558
Speaker 1: pivot point in a seven game series. I know Joe

744
00:36:11,598 --> 00:36:14,798
Speaker 1: Torre always talked about this. If you look at umpire rotations,

745
00:36:15,198 --> 00:36:18,118
Speaker 1: that's why he puts the crew chief in that spot.

746
00:36:19,478 --> 00:36:23,078
Speaker 1: It's a swing game, right the series shifts venues, it's

747
00:36:23,078 --> 00:36:25,598
Speaker 1: either tied or one team is fighting for its life

748
00:36:25,678 --> 00:36:29,838
Speaker 1: down two to oh. And also typically you'll see the

749
00:36:29,878 --> 00:36:32,398
Speaker 1: game three starter come back lined up for a game

750
00:36:32,558 --> 00:36:37,678
Speaker 1: seven start. All those things come into play. So Verlander

751
00:36:37,838 --> 00:36:39,798
Speaker 1: sureser they start the year with the Mets. Here they

752
00:36:39,798 --> 00:36:43,158
Speaker 1: are in the ALCS former teammates, of course, not just

753
00:36:43,198 --> 00:36:45,998
Speaker 1: with the Mets, but with the Tigers. It'll be interesting

754
00:36:46,038 --> 00:36:49,358
Speaker 1: to see how the rotation is lined up for Bruce

755
00:36:49,358 --> 00:36:50,358
Speaker 1: Bochie and the Rangers.

756
00:36:50,398 --> 00:36:52,758
Speaker 2: Joe, Yeah, I could see Shreser being the opener in

757
00:36:52,798 --> 00:36:56,078
Speaker 2: that game. Really, I don't know how deep that would go,

758
00:36:56,198 --> 00:36:58,598
Speaker 2: but if he is able to pitch, just to say,

759
00:36:58,598 --> 00:37:01,118
Speaker 2: if he gets stretched out to sixty pitches, maybe seventy five,

760
00:37:01,158 --> 00:37:03,118
Speaker 2: I don't know, but that can set him up well

761
00:37:03,158 --> 00:37:05,038
Speaker 2: for the next time needed. And it's also going to

762
00:37:05,078 --> 00:37:07,878
Speaker 2: tell you a lot regarding where he's at physically.

763
00:37:08,038 --> 00:37:09,758
Speaker 3: So if they're not going.

764
00:37:09,758 --> 00:37:11,198
Speaker 2: To throw him out there unless they think they can

765
00:37:11,238 --> 00:37:15,158
Speaker 2: do it, I believe that wholeheartedly. I know Max is

766
00:37:15,198 --> 00:37:17,238
Speaker 2: going to say that he can. I didn't see the

767
00:37:17,238 --> 00:37:19,358
Speaker 2: bullpen like you talked about, but of course they did,

768
00:37:19,798 --> 00:37:23,198
Speaker 2: and they evaluated it very closely. So if he's the

769
00:37:23,758 --> 00:37:26,518
Speaker 2: quote unquote opener in that third game, you just ride

770
00:37:26,598 --> 00:37:27,998
Speaker 2: him as long as you can and then you just

771
00:37:28,078 --> 00:37:30,518
Speaker 2: line it up after that because they'll be coming off

772
00:37:30,518 --> 00:37:31,078
Speaker 2: of an off day.

773
00:37:31,078 --> 00:37:32,718
Speaker 3: Correct is going to play two games and there's an

774
00:37:32,758 --> 00:37:33,478
Speaker 3: off day, is that right?

775
00:37:33,878 --> 00:37:35,318
Speaker 1: Right? That's right, so.

776
00:37:35,238 --> 00:37:37,238
Speaker 2: There'll be a nice bullpen available to them to day

777
00:37:37,278 --> 00:37:41,038
Speaker 2: that he pitches. That could be rather interesting and he

778
00:37:41,118 --> 00:37:43,358
Speaker 2: could be uplifting, you know, to the Rangers. Not like

779
00:37:43,358 --> 00:37:45,398
Speaker 2: they need to be uplifted anywhere than they already have,

780
00:37:45,518 --> 00:37:48,798
Speaker 2: but I could see something like that happening. My last point, though,

781
00:37:48,798 --> 00:37:51,518
Speaker 2: he came out of the bullpen against US. I'm not

782
00:37:51,558 --> 00:37:52,958
Speaker 2: saying a bullpen righty, but he came out of the

783
00:37:52,958 --> 00:37:57,038
Speaker 2: bullpen against US in Game five Nationals versus the Cubs.

784
00:37:58,198 --> 00:37:59,158
Speaker 3: In twenty seventeen.

785
00:37:59,198 --> 00:38:02,238
Speaker 2: I think it was right that that knockdown dragon him

786
00:38:02,238 --> 00:38:05,638
Speaker 2: out game in Washington and did not perform well.

787
00:38:05,678 --> 00:38:06,638
Speaker 3: We got him.

788
00:38:06,678 --> 00:38:08,318
Speaker 2: I think Addison had a big hit down and left

789
00:38:08,318 --> 00:38:11,198
Speaker 2: field line. So there's you know, there's all these different things.

790
00:38:11,558 --> 00:38:13,798
Speaker 2: When the guy's out of his comfort zone, he's not right.

791
00:38:14,358 --> 00:38:16,758
Speaker 2: And just because his last name is a pedigree attached

792
00:38:16,798 --> 00:38:19,238
Speaker 2: to it, it's just you just can't one hundred percent

793
00:38:19,358 --> 00:38:22,238
Speaker 2: count on it. But I do think it's fascinating and interesting.

794
00:38:22,478 --> 00:38:24,678
Speaker 1: The game you mentioned in Washington, by the way, that

795
00:38:24,758 --> 00:38:28,038
Speaker 1: was a crazy game. If I remember this correctly, it's

796
00:38:28,078 --> 00:38:31,598
Speaker 1: the only game in history where there are four ways

797
00:38:31,598 --> 00:38:33,958
Speaker 1: of getting on base without putting the ball in play, right,

798
00:38:34,158 --> 00:38:36,958
Speaker 1: and it's the only game in history where all four

799
00:38:37,038 --> 00:38:42,438
Speaker 1: of those methods happened in a row. He obviously have

800
00:38:42,878 --> 00:38:47,718
Speaker 1: a walk, a hit by pitch, catcher's interference, and drop

801
00:38:47,758 --> 00:38:50,358
Speaker 1: third strike, oh happened consecutively.

802
00:38:50,958 --> 00:38:53,958
Speaker 2: Well, the win was when Hobby's completion of his backswing

803
00:38:54,318 --> 00:38:56,038
Speaker 2: hit the catcher's glove right and the ball went back

804
00:38:56,078 --> 00:38:57,678
Speaker 2: to the backs up and jury lane didn't see it.

805
00:38:57,758 --> 00:38:58,358
Speaker 3: Is that accurate?

806
00:38:58,518 --> 00:39:00,038
Speaker 1: That's it? Yeah?

807
00:39:00,278 --> 00:39:00,838
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was.

808
00:39:01,038 --> 00:39:03,078
Speaker 2: If there's been an instant replay back, then for that

809
00:39:03,158 --> 00:39:05,958
Speaker 2: particular play, the outcome could have been different, because we

810
00:39:07,198 --> 00:39:09,158
Speaker 2: that was a crazy game. We were playing the infield

811
00:39:09,158 --> 00:39:11,038
Speaker 2: in early Hobby made a great play at the plate.

812
00:39:11,118 --> 00:39:13,798
Speaker 2: He threw somebody out. I was going back and forth,

813
00:39:13,838 --> 00:39:15,558
Speaker 2: back and forth, and that was a good team. That

814
00:39:15,678 --> 00:39:19,238
Speaker 2: national team was a really good team. That's I've talked

815
00:39:19,278 --> 00:39:20,838
Speaker 2: to you about this before. That might have been the

816
00:39:20,878 --> 00:39:25,038
Speaker 2: most incredibly intense game I've had to manage in the play.

817
00:39:25,198 --> 00:39:28,518
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, seven game seven Indians, et cetera.

818
00:39:28,598 --> 00:39:30,958
Speaker 2: I get that, but this game had something attached to

819
00:39:30,998 --> 00:39:34,878
Speaker 2: it that you talk about exhaustion. That was the NLDS

820
00:39:34,998 --> 00:39:37,478
Speaker 2: by the time we got to the CS. But against

821
00:39:37,518 --> 00:39:40,638
Speaker 2: the Dodgers, we were pretty much our bullpen was exhausted.

822
00:39:40,918 --> 00:39:43,798
Speaker 2: I'd used Wayde Davis two plus innings just to get there,

823
00:39:44,078 --> 00:39:46,198
Speaker 2: and then we had a medical head to layover in

824
00:39:46,478 --> 00:39:48,798
Speaker 2: Albuquerque all night long. And then you go out and

825
00:39:48,838 --> 00:39:51,638
Speaker 2: try to beat the Dodgers in LA with full rest.

826
00:39:51,718 --> 00:39:56,318
Speaker 2: So all these little answer your components again conspire sometimes

827
00:39:56,358 --> 00:39:59,398
Speaker 2: against you. So yeah, rest can be very important.

828
00:39:59,918 --> 00:40:02,518
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why I've really looked forward to this

829
00:40:03,038 --> 00:40:06,678
Speaker 1: both LCS is because nobody's really disadvantaged when it comes

830
00:40:06,678 --> 00:40:08,758
Speaker 1: to going in there, Like you said, playing a full

831
00:40:08,758 --> 00:40:11,118
Speaker 1: compliment of games, going through your bullpen, and it's like,

832
00:40:11,158 --> 00:40:12,598
Speaker 1: how are we going to get through the first couple

833
00:40:12,638 --> 00:40:15,478
Speaker 1: of games of the LCS. Well, these teams all got

834
00:40:15,478 --> 00:40:18,878
Speaker 1: here in short time and with the pitching lined up,

835
00:40:19,318 --> 00:40:21,998
Speaker 1: and it's fascinating. We have a final four in which

836
00:40:22,438 --> 00:40:25,318
Speaker 1: none of the four teams has won more than ninety games.

837
00:40:25,318 --> 00:40:27,958
Speaker 1: It's the first ALCS in which neither team won more

838
00:40:27,998 --> 00:40:31,318
Speaker 1: than ninety I'm not sure about the NLCS, but I imagine

839
00:40:31,198 --> 00:40:34,438
Speaker 1: it's probably similar to that. But that's a good thing

840
00:40:34,798 --> 00:40:37,958
Speaker 1: and it should be really fun. Hey, we're gonna take

841
00:40:37,998 --> 00:40:40,798
Speaker 1: a quick break, Joe, and one thing we absolutely need

842
00:40:40,838 --> 00:40:42,238
Speaker 1: to talk about when we get to this time of

843
00:40:42,318 --> 00:40:44,918
Speaker 1: year in the LCS is the effect of the managers.

844
00:40:45,238 --> 00:40:48,798
Speaker 1: We get some real four interesting managers running these games.

845
00:40:49,038 --> 00:41:01,958
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that with Joe right after this. Hey,

846
00:41:01,998 --> 00:41:05,078
Speaker 1: welcome back to the LCS edition of the Book of

847
00:41:05,158 --> 00:41:09,918
Speaker 1: Joe Podcasts. Managers who made it to the final four.

848
00:41:10,758 --> 00:41:14,118
Speaker 1: The youngest of them Joe is Tory Lavello at the

849
00:41:14,158 --> 00:41:18,158
Speaker 1: age of fifty eight. You've got Rob Thompson at sixty,

850
00:41:18,878 --> 00:41:23,358
Speaker 1: Bruce Bochie at sixty eight, Dusty Baker at seventy four.

851
00:41:23,918 --> 00:41:26,158
Speaker 1: And this is after the last couple of years watching

852
00:41:26,558 --> 00:41:29,678
Speaker 1: you know, Dusty go up against Rob Thompson last year

853
00:41:30,478 --> 00:41:33,718
Speaker 1: Dusty and Brian Snicker in his mid sixties the year before.

854
00:41:35,478 --> 00:41:39,318
Speaker 1: Look around the game. There's a reason why these guys

855
00:41:40,078 --> 00:41:43,598
Speaker 1: are in these spots. The years of experience. You can't

856
00:41:43,598 --> 00:41:46,438
Speaker 1: tell me it doesn't matter, especially this time of year.

857
00:41:46,918 --> 00:41:49,278
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, you're not going to get an argument from me.

858
00:41:49,318 --> 00:41:51,398
Speaker 2: And I'm so happy for all these guys and friends

859
00:41:51,438 --> 00:41:52,318
Speaker 2: with all of them.

860
00:41:52,558 --> 00:41:54,878
Speaker 3: They're all really really good at what they do.

861
00:41:55,798 --> 00:41:59,478
Speaker 2: I mean, toy, I had Torio's player with the Angels

862
00:41:59,478 --> 00:42:00,998
Speaker 2: when I was a young coach. I got to know

863
00:42:01,078 --> 00:42:02,878
Speaker 2: Tory back in the day in the batty cages out

864
00:42:02,878 --> 00:42:05,598
Speaker 2: at Genautry Park. Dusty and I have developed a good

865
00:42:05,638 --> 00:42:09,558
Speaker 2: relationship over the years based on you know, battling back

866
00:42:09,558 --> 00:42:12,758
Speaker 2: and forth obviously, and Robbie Thompson. I was just so

867
00:42:12,878 --> 00:42:16,598
Speaker 2: happy that he got that opportunity and he's the perfect

868
00:42:16,638 --> 00:42:18,438
Speaker 2: guy for that job. And philid Okay I listened to

869
00:42:18,518 --> 00:42:21,518
Speaker 2: him speak, and God, you talk about being able to

870
00:42:21,558 --> 00:42:24,958
Speaker 2: disarm immediately. And of course Boach, Boach and I go

871
00:42:25,038 --> 00:42:28,078
Speaker 2: way back. I've had some very good run ins with him,

872
00:42:28,598 --> 00:42:32,638
Speaker 2: including twenty run to the twenty sixteen World Series and

873
00:42:33,198 --> 00:42:35,278
Speaker 2: before and after that. My first time I saw Boach

874
00:42:35,278 --> 00:42:37,278
Speaker 2: as a manager was in Riverside. He was managing a

875
00:42:37,358 --> 00:42:40,678
Speaker 2: ball and I was roving with the Angels and I

876
00:42:40,678 --> 00:42:43,478
Speaker 2: was with Palm Springs playing. Drove over to Riverside and

877
00:42:43,518 --> 00:42:45,958
Speaker 2: watched the nurse Boach, Bruce Boch, He's managing the river

878
00:42:46,078 --> 00:42:48,638
Speaker 2: Side whatever they were at that time. So all these

879
00:42:48,678 --> 00:42:51,318
Speaker 2: guys have they've ridden the buses, you know, I like,

880
00:42:51,358 --> 00:42:54,398
Speaker 2: they've ridden the buses, they pulled tarps, they've probably burned

881
00:42:54,398 --> 00:42:57,398
Speaker 2: a baseball fielder to it at different points in their ascension.

882
00:42:57,518 --> 00:43:00,638
Speaker 2: So I like all that about it, you know, And

883
00:43:00,918 --> 00:43:06,918
Speaker 2: I'll always argue in favor of field and experience and

884
00:43:06,998 --> 00:43:10,318
Speaker 2: wisdom and whatever you and that blink moment where intuition

885
00:43:10,438 --> 00:43:13,078
Speaker 2: takes over and you can make decisions based on all

886
00:43:13,158 --> 00:43:15,358
Speaker 2: years of experience. And I think all these guys have that,

887
00:43:16,038 --> 00:43:19,998
Speaker 2: and I'll always argue in favor of that. They've seen

888
00:43:21,118 --> 00:43:23,598
Speaker 2: so many different situations and they've been through We've talked

889
00:43:23,638 --> 00:43:27,198
Speaker 2: about the meetings and evaluations of players, etc. And they're

890
00:43:27,198 --> 00:43:29,518
Speaker 2: going to go and they're going to make decisions based

891
00:43:29,558 --> 00:43:34,438
Speaker 2: on more human elements more consistently, And to me, that's

892
00:43:34,518 --> 00:43:36,078
Speaker 2: exactly the way it needs to be. You need to

893
00:43:36,158 --> 00:43:39,318
Speaker 2: utilize all information at your disposal. But at the end

894
00:43:39,318 --> 00:43:41,478
Speaker 2: of the day, it's one human versus another human. The

895
00:43:41,518 --> 00:43:45,478
Speaker 2: better baseball player making less mistakes or better baseball team

896
00:43:45,478 --> 00:43:48,798
Speaker 2: making less mistakes or being prepared in a moment is

897
00:43:48,838 --> 00:43:51,038
Speaker 2: going to win, especially when he gets this close. So

898
00:43:51,518 --> 00:43:53,758
Speaker 2: happy for all these guys. I'm looking forward to watching them.

899
00:43:53,838 --> 00:43:55,878
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's not going to be a lot of talk

900
00:43:55,918 --> 00:43:59,318
Speaker 1: about scripts when it comes to running games in these

901
00:43:59,518 --> 00:44:05,398
Speaker 1: lcs's versus Bochi and Rob Thompson in particular, they run

902
00:44:05,478 --> 00:44:08,038
Speaker 1: games similar to way you run games. If there's something

903
00:44:08,078 --> 00:44:12,478
Speaker 1: they see in a moment, they're prepared. Listen, I say,

904
00:44:12,558 --> 00:44:15,038
Speaker 1: we're not gonna hear about scripts. It doesn't mean you

905
00:44:15,118 --> 00:44:18,918
Speaker 1: don't go into a game prepared for scenarios. You do,

906
00:44:19,598 --> 00:44:23,438
Speaker 1: but you are not wedded to that script. You know,

907
00:44:23,918 --> 00:44:26,718
Speaker 1: as you know more than anybody, things change in the

908
00:44:26,718 --> 00:44:29,278
Speaker 1: course of a postseason game, and sometimes they can happen quickly.

909
00:44:29,318 --> 00:44:32,198
Speaker 1: You need to adjust. I think these managers do that,

910
00:44:32,478 --> 00:44:38,158
Speaker 1: and I think especially Bochie and Thompson are very proactive,

911
00:44:38,238 --> 00:44:40,918
Speaker 1: very aggressive when it term in terms of if there

912
00:44:40,998 --> 00:44:43,238
Speaker 1: is a matchup that pops up in the six or

913
00:44:43,278 --> 00:44:45,558
Speaker 1: seventh inning where they feel like the game is on

914
00:44:45,678 --> 00:44:49,918
Speaker 1: the line, they're going to go to their high leverage guys. Now,

915
00:44:50,318 --> 00:44:51,998
Speaker 1: you know you need a deeper bullpen to be able

916
00:44:52,038 --> 00:44:54,958
Speaker 1: to do that, and they have that, but just sort

917
00:44:54,958 --> 00:44:57,998
Speaker 1: of the gumption to say, you know what, this guy

918
00:44:58,078 --> 00:44:59,878
Speaker 1: is going to pitch in this spot because I feel

919
00:44:59,918 --> 00:45:03,438
Speaker 1: like this is equivalent to an eighth inning, high leverage situation.

920
00:45:04,038 --> 00:45:07,358
Speaker 1: They will not hesitate to do that. So it'll be

921
00:45:07,358 --> 00:45:10,118
Speaker 1: fascinating to watch these guys run a game. Dusty Baker

922
00:45:10,638 --> 00:45:13,478
Speaker 1: all right handed bullpen, A Bray who has just been

923
00:45:13,798 --> 00:45:16,478
Speaker 1: unbelievable for him out of his bullpen. I know without

924
00:45:16,518 --> 00:45:18,638
Speaker 1: a lefty, you think, well, we are thinking to match

925
00:45:18,678 --> 00:45:21,598
Speaker 1: up against Corey. Seeger doesn't matter. I mean a Braillo

926
00:45:21,718 --> 00:45:23,718
Speaker 1: is not giving up a run, folks, since the middle

927
00:45:23,718 --> 00:45:26,998
Speaker 1: of the summer. Since July, he's throwing a hundred with

928
00:45:27,078 --> 00:45:31,158
Speaker 1: a wipeout breaking ball. So this is not your cookie

929
00:45:31,158 --> 00:45:36,238
Speaker 1: cutter matchup left on left. You know, let's check the ops's.

930
00:45:36,318 --> 00:45:39,918
Speaker 1: These managers know where the holes are in swings, which

931
00:45:39,958 --> 00:45:43,678
Speaker 1: guys they trust in certain situations. This is not paint

932
00:45:43,718 --> 00:45:46,278
Speaker 1: by numbers managing. We'll be looking at here in the postseason.

933
00:45:46,558 --> 00:45:49,078
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, first of all, you start off. You always

934
00:45:49,078 --> 00:45:51,758
Speaker 2: go with theory, your theory as you sit down before

935
00:45:51,758 --> 00:45:54,478
Speaker 2: the game. For me, it would be in the morning.

936
00:45:54,878 --> 00:45:57,318
Speaker 2: I get all my information via PDFs. I sit down,

937
00:45:57,598 --> 00:46:00,478
Speaker 2: I map things out, go over different things, go for

938
00:46:00,518 --> 00:46:02,878
Speaker 2: the bike ride or whatever, and then you think about

939
00:46:02,878 --> 00:46:03,238
Speaker 2: this stuff.

940
00:46:03,238 --> 00:46:04,438
Speaker 3: And then you get to the ball park. Can you

941
00:46:04,478 --> 00:46:05,238
Speaker 3: get your lineups?

942
00:46:05,838 --> 00:46:08,438
Speaker 2: And then at that point you I started writing my

943
00:46:08,438 --> 00:46:12,638
Speaker 2: matchups down, whether it be blocks where I want different

944
00:46:12,638 --> 00:46:15,598
Speaker 2: relief pitchers in different blocks against their offense where I

945
00:46:15,638 --> 00:46:17,398
Speaker 2: think they might pinch it, or I might pinch it

946
00:46:17,438 --> 00:46:20,238
Speaker 2: for I write these things down on my card in advance.

947
00:46:20,558 --> 00:46:22,478
Speaker 2: Stolen the stolen base guys. If there's a hit and

948
00:46:22,558 --> 00:46:25,078
Speaker 2: run guy, what council they'd like to go on? I want,

949
00:46:25,118 --> 00:46:27,118
Speaker 2: I want to predetermine all this in advance so that

950
00:46:27,158 --> 00:46:29,918
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised by anything. So that's it all comes

951
00:46:29,918 --> 00:46:31,878
Speaker 2: down to theory. And then like you said, there comes reality,

952
00:46:31,998 --> 00:46:36,678
Speaker 2: here comes the game, and everything starts shifting. But but

953
00:46:37,238 --> 00:46:39,678
Speaker 2: the fact that you've done all this homework before slows

954
00:46:39,718 --> 00:46:40,638
Speaker 2: that moment down.

955
00:46:40,478 --> 00:46:42,318
Speaker 3: Because you've already prepared for this.

956
00:46:42,678 --> 00:46:44,918
Speaker 2: Okay, all of a sudden, you're getting that, and now

957
00:46:44,918 --> 00:46:48,958
Speaker 2: it's easier to make that adjustment. Talking about getting your

958
00:46:49,238 --> 00:46:52,758
Speaker 2: right relief pictures in high leverage moments earlier in the game, Again,

959
00:46:52,838 --> 00:46:55,718
Speaker 2: that has to be thought about in advance. And because

960
00:46:56,158 --> 00:46:58,678
Speaker 2: I guess what Turner said is accurate regarding the speed

961
00:46:58,718 --> 00:47:00,758
Speaker 2: of the game right now, So you have to really

962
00:47:00,838 --> 00:47:02,478
Speaker 2: you have to be in advance of this moment in

963
00:47:02,558 --> 00:47:04,838
Speaker 2: order to get that guy on this picture now, I

964
00:47:04,878 --> 00:47:07,118
Speaker 2: mean a certain hitter. And again you have to understand,

965
00:47:07,238 --> 00:47:10,678
Speaker 2: I mean, you hate hate hate wearing it up a picture,

966
00:47:11,198 --> 00:47:12,798
Speaker 2: getting him hot, and then maybe he does it go

967
00:47:12,878 --> 00:47:16,158
Speaker 2: in the game. So that's that's the bane of all

968
00:47:16,198 --> 00:47:19,238
Speaker 2: managers in bullpens, where you do that and you lose

969
00:47:19,238 --> 00:47:21,918
Speaker 2: some utility out of the guy just because he got hot.

970
00:47:22,158 --> 00:47:23,638
Speaker 2: He got hot, he didn't get in a game, but

971
00:47:23,678 --> 00:47:26,078
Speaker 2: that kind of counts almost as though he did. And

972
00:47:26,118 --> 00:47:28,638
Speaker 2: so you're trying to be ready but also avoid that

973
00:47:28,678 --> 00:47:31,678
Speaker 2: particular moment. It used to happen more with matchup left

974
00:47:31,678 --> 00:47:33,958
Speaker 2: handed pictures. I think lefties used to get abused more

975
00:47:34,278 --> 00:47:36,078
Speaker 2: because you're getting them ready, getting them ready for this

976
00:47:36,158 --> 00:47:38,598
Speaker 2: moment against the left handed hitter pom maybe a double

977
00:47:38,598 --> 00:47:41,078
Speaker 2: play happens to hit her before sit the guy down,

978
00:47:41,238 --> 00:47:43,398
Speaker 2: or maybe something happens and the game blows open a

979
00:47:43,398 --> 00:47:45,878
Speaker 2: little bit on the previous hitter, send him back down,

980
00:47:46,118 --> 00:47:47,958
Speaker 2: or the end he gets over this gets over with

981
00:47:47,998 --> 00:47:50,518
Speaker 2: the previous hitter, sit him back down. So these are

982
00:47:50,558 --> 00:47:53,438
Speaker 2: the kind of things that you really have to stay

983
00:47:53,478 --> 00:47:55,758
Speaker 2: on top of an advance, but you're also concerned about

984
00:47:56,158 --> 00:47:59,398
Speaker 2: getting guys hot and then sitting them down. Last point,

985
00:48:00,318 --> 00:48:03,358
Speaker 2: just talking about Astro's Alrighty's I think we went through

986
00:48:03,358 --> 00:48:05,958
Speaker 2: that too for a bit with the Angels, although if

987
00:48:05,958 --> 00:48:08,998
Speaker 2: shown Waits adventure got to the bullpen. When you have

988
00:48:09,198 --> 00:48:11,878
Speaker 2: reverse guys and a break, you don't care who's hitting.

989
00:48:11,998 --> 00:48:14,278
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter right he left the switch it, it doesn't matter.

990
00:48:15,318 --> 00:48:16,838
Speaker 2: This guy's got that kind of.

991
00:48:16,758 --> 00:48:18,758
Speaker 3: Stuff that beats both right and left handed hitters.

992
00:48:19,238 --> 00:48:21,598
Speaker 2: And when you get righty's that beat lefties too. I'm

993
00:48:21,598 --> 00:48:24,078
Speaker 2: always you're looking for neutral guys. What you're really looking

994
00:48:24,078 --> 00:48:26,878
Speaker 2: for if you look at all the statistical information, look

995
00:48:26,918 --> 00:48:29,238
Speaker 2: at the sheet, the statistical sheet, and you're looking for

996
00:48:29,278 --> 00:48:31,758
Speaker 2: a relief picture regardless if he's right or left handed,

997
00:48:32,078 --> 00:48:34,758
Speaker 2: that the numbers are kind of equally balanced on both sides,

998
00:48:35,118 --> 00:48:37,078
Speaker 2: and that's the guy those If you could get a

999
00:48:37,078 --> 00:48:38,798
Speaker 2: bullpen full of those dudes, man, you're not going to

1000
00:48:38,838 --> 00:48:39,558
Speaker 2: wear anybody out.

1001
00:48:39,798 --> 00:48:41,118
Speaker 3: You're gonna be able to match it up.

1002
00:48:41,118 --> 00:48:45,438
Speaker 2: Easier, get some you get guys up without any concern

1003
00:48:45,838 --> 00:48:48,358
Speaker 2: because if this pops, regardless of who they sent up there.

1004
00:48:48,358 --> 00:48:50,598
Speaker 2: I feel pretty good about this. So when you're when

1005
00:48:50,638 --> 00:48:52,958
Speaker 2: you're putting your team together in the off season, and

1006
00:48:52,998 --> 00:48:55,158
Speaker 2: the guys you're looking forward to build a cachet with

1007
00:48:55,198 --> 00:48:58,758
Speaker 2: them would be neutral relief pictures. Second, I would take

1008
00:48:58,758 --> 00:49:02,518
Speaker 2: the reverse guy. The specialists really gone kind of like

1009
00:49:02,638 --> 00:49:05,158
Speaker 2: to the wayside based on the three batter minimum. So

1010
00:49:05,358 --> 00:49:06,758
Speaker 2: these are the kind of things that I look to

1011
00:49:06,838 --> 00:49:11,438
Speaker 2: prepare for before the game, and theory and reality obviously

1012
00:49:11,438 --> 00:49:12,358
Speaker 2: are two different things.

1013
00:49:12,638 --> 00:49:15,078
Speaker 1: Yeah, to me, the big matchup, Joe is a Brew

1014
00:49:15,158 --> 00:49:18,158
Speaker 1: on Seeger. That's the key matchup to watching that series

1015
00:49:18,158 --> 00:49:21,278
Speaker 1: in the ALCS. I just think the way a bra

1016
00:49:21,518 --> 00:49:24,318
Speaker 1: is throwing the ball right now. I like the Astros

1017
00:49:24,358 --> 00:49:27,318
Speaker 1: bullpen in general. In the first round. They allowed the

1018
00:49:27,358 --> 00:49:31,118
Speaker 1: Twins a one point eighty six batting average from the

1019
00:49:31,158 --> 00:49:34,678
Speaker 1: seventh inning on, and he certainly certainly saw that in

1020
00:49:35,558 --> 00:49:37,758
Speaker 1: the clinching game where the Twins just had trouble even

1021
00:49:37,798 --> 00:49:40,758
Speaker 1: getting the ball in play against neris a braw and pressley.

1022
00:49:41,878 --> 00:49:43,958
Speaker 1: I think there's an edge there for Houston. The other

1023
00:49:43,958 --> 00:49:46,518
Speaker 1: thing I like here, Joe is that when any of

1024
00:49:46,518 --> 00:49:51,238
Speaker 1: these managers sits in that postgame conference room and explains

1025
00:49:51,238 --> 00:49:55,278
Speaker 1: a move, you as a fan, should feel really confident

1026
00:49:55,438 --> 00:49:58,598
Speaker 1: that he's telling you the truth about a move that

1027
00:49:58,758 --> 00:50:01,598
Speaker 1: he made, that he in the course of the heat

1028
00:50:01,598 --> 00:50:06,118
Speaker 1: of the moment the manager made them, and not somebody

1029
00:50:06,478 --> 00:50:10,398
Speaker 1: wearing a polo shirt upstairs, because that happens way too much.

1030
00:50:10,918 --> 00:50:13,438
Speaker 1: And you know, I didn't like it with John Schneider

1031
00:50:13,878 --> 00:50:15,718
Speaker 1: taking Barrios out of that game when they had a

1032
00:50:15,718 --> 00:50:17,798
Speaker 1: script to go to the lefty Kakuchi to flip the

1033
00:50:17,798 --> 00:50:20,958
Speaker 1: Minnesota lineup in the wildcard round. I didn't like when

1034
00:50:21,038 --> 00:50:24,158
Speaker 1: Ross Atkins the GM came out and basically, you know,

1035
00:50:24,238 --> 00:50:29,158
Speaker 1: didn't take responsibility. I mean to me, leadership also means

1036
00:50:29,198 --> 00:50:33,318
Speaker 1: putting people in position to lead and empowering them. John

1037
00:50:33,318 --> 00:50:36,398
Speaker 1: Schneider is a young manager, right if you're a front office,

1038
00:50:36,438 --> 00:50:38,598
Speaker 1: you have to empower him to make decisions in the

1039
00:50:38,638 --> 00:50:40,278
Speaker 1: course of the game. And you could sit there as

1040
00:50:40,278 --> 00:50:42,238
Speaker 1: a GM and you could say, you know what, we

1041
00:50:42,318 --> 00:50:45,078
Speaker 1: don't tell our manager what to do. And you could

1042
00:50:45,078 --> 00:50:48,638
Speaker 1: say that and that would literally be true. But if

1043
00:50:48,638 --> 00:50:51,558
Speaker 1: you're putting thoughts in his head and giving him information,

1044
00:50:52,278 --> 00:50:54,758
Speaker 1: and this guy is not an established big league manager,

1045
00:50:54,838 --> 00:50:57,438
Speaker 1: what is he going to do. The path of least

1046
00:50:57,518 --> 00:51:00,118
Speaker 1: resistance is what he's going to choose. He's going to

1047
00:51:00,198 --> 00:51:02,878
Speaker 1: speak to in the heat of the moment, the ideas

1048
00:51:02,918 --> 00:51:05,358
Speaker 1: that were put into a head by the information you're

1049
00:51:05,398 --> 00:51:09,158
Speaker 1: giving him as his boss. And so I tell trying

1050
00:51:09,158 --> 00:51:11,878
Speaker 1: to tell fans all the time when you're second guessing

1051
00:51:11,918 --> 00:51:14,078
Speaker 1: the manager. Most of the times in the big leagues

1052
00:51:14,118 --> 00:51:17,478
Speaker 1: these days, you're second guessing the front office. Don't lay

1053
00:51:17,478 --> 00:51:19,358
Speaker 1: it on the manager. Don't always put it on Dave

1054
00:51:19,438 --> 00:51:21,358
Speaker 1: Roberts if he's taking his picture out of the game

1055
00:51:21,398 --> 00:51:25,278
Speaker 1: in the fourth inning. So I think I feel good

1056
00:51:25,278 --> 00:51:28,078
Speaker 1: in this situation with these four managers that if they

1057
00:51:28,158 --> 00:51:31,278
Speaker 1: make a move, they're doing it based on their years

1058
00:51:31,278 --> 00:51:34,518
Speaker 1: of experience in the game and what they're seeing at

1059
00:51:34,518 --> 00:51:35,078
Speaker 1: that moment.

1060
00:51:35,318 --> 00:51:38,038
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'll give you an amen on that one.

1061
00:51:38,118 --> 00:51:43,118
Speaker 2: But also to just try to complete the thought. Yeah,

1062
00:51:43,398 --> 00:51:46,638
Speaker 2: all these guys want information, but there's always been information.

1063
00:51:47,078 --> 00:51:49,158
Speaker 2: We said what we called an advanced scout, and the

1064
00:51:49,198 --> 00:51:51,838
Speaker 2: advanced scout would go out in advance of the team

1065
00:51:51,878 --> 00:51:54,638
Speaker 2: that you're going to play, and he would compile information

1066
00:51:54,678 --> 00:51:56,958
Speaker 2: regarding their hitters, what do you want to play people

1067
00:51:56,958 --> 00:51:59,438
Speaker 2: on defense, how do you attack their pitchers?

1068
00:51:59,918 --> 00:52:01,998
Speaker 3: If there's any signs you could pick up. You've always

1069
00:52:02,078 --> 00:52:03,038
Speaker 3: had information.

1070
00:52:04,158 --> 00:52:07,198
Speaker 2: Now is that you can accumulate more because now every game,

1071
00:52:07,798 --> 00:52:10,118
Speaker 2: every team, every game is being tracked. So you got

1072
00:52:10,158 --> 00:52:12,918
Speaker 2: this bank of stuff where before it was maybe not

1073
00:52:12,998 --> 00:52:17,558
Speaker 2: as exact, it was more observational as opposed to GPS.

1074
00:52:17,598 --> 00:52:20,198
Speaker 2: Good and at this time of the year, and when

1075
00:52:20,198 --> 00:52:21,798
Speaker 2: he got to the playoffs, they had more than one

1076
00:52:21,798 --> 00:52:25,198
Speaker 2: guy covering each team, so they try to split the responsibilities.

1077
00:52:25,238 --> 00:52:27,878
Speaker 2: They would report back, they'd come back to the city

1078
00:52:28,758 --> 00:52:30,558
Speaker 2: and they would sit there with the manager and the

1079
00:52:30,558 --> 00:52:33,358
Speaker 2: coaching staff and say, this is what I saw. And

1080
00:52:33,398 --> 00:52:36,398
Speaker 2: when the coaching staff would have the meeting with the players,

1081
00:52:36,718 --> 00:52:38,958
Speaker 2: who remember these advanced scouts where if they could be

1082
00:52:38,998 --> 00:52:40,598
Speaker 2: there at that time, or at least one of them

1083
00:52:40,998 --> 00:52:42,838
Speaker 2: or at least on the phone, would sit there to

1084
00:52:42,878 --> 00:52:46,158
Speaker 2: support if there was anything that they've forgotten about whatever.

1085
00:52:46,558 --> 00:52:49,798
Speaker 2: I love that method. I do love that method. I'm

1086
00:52:49,798 --> 00:52:52,278
Speaker 2: not saying I don't like the method of accumulating information

1087
00:52:52,438 --> 00:52:57,598
Speaker 2: via video or just a little marks data whatever. I

1088
00:52:57,718 --> 00:52:59,958
Speaker 2: like that too, because again, it could be more accurate

1089
00:52:59,998 --> 00:53:02,918
Speaker 2: when it comes to what you're talking about. However, it

1090
00:53:02,998 --> 00:53:05,398
Speaker 2: just comes down to how is it dispensed among the group.

1091
00:53:05,958 --> 00:53:09,438
Speaker 2: So you give information to coaches and managers, absolutely, give us,

1092
00:53:09,638 --> 00:53:10,198
Speaker 2: give us as.

1093
00:53:10,198 --> 00:53:11,558
Speaker 3: Much as you got. We'll take it.

1094
00:53:11,918 --> 00:53:13,798
Speaker 2: We want it, we want it, we want to work,

1095
00:53:13,958 --> 00:53:17,478
Speaker 2: we want to work in conjunction with all the analytical

1096
00:53:17,518 --> 00:53:19,798
Speaker 2: groups we do. But then there's at some point we

1097
00:53:19,878 --> 00:53:22,998
Speaker 2: got to say thank you and we'll see tomorrow after

1098
00:53:22,998 --> 00:53:27,158
Speaker 2: you've accumulated more information regarding tomorrow's game. But to to

1099
00:53:27,238 --> 00:53:31,798
Speaker 2: stand there and just to kind of dictate strategy to

1100
00:53:31,878 --> 00:53:35,678
Speaker 2: you as the manager, again, it only serves the confuse.

1101
00:53:35,958 --> 00:53:38,878
Speaker 3: I promise enough. The manager asks that, Like.

1102
00:53:38,878 --> 00:53:40,718
Speaker 2: If I'm the man and I you know, you said

1103
00:53:40,758 --> 00:53:42,278
Speaker 2: some different things to me, and I say, okay, Now

1104
00:53:43,158 --> 00:53:44,998
Speaker 2: give them a scenario like okay, we get to this

1105
00:53:45,038 --> 00:53:46,958
Speaker 2: particular juncture in the game and it comes like this,

1106
00:53:47,118 --> 00:53:51,318
Speaker 2: the situation you're talking about Alvarado and Harris hitting and

1107
00:53:51,518 --> 00:53:53,638
Speaker 2: you know the potential for pinchionting. Do you have any

1108
00:53:53,638 --> 00:53:55,598
Speaker 2: suggestions there should we get should we get Kimberle in

1109
00:53:55,638 --> 00:53:58,798
Speaker 2: the game, or do you like Alvarado facing a left tender?

1110
00:53:58,838 --> 00:54:01,318
Speaker 2: As an example, if I ask that question, I don't

1111
00:54:01,318 --> 00:54:03,678
Speaker 2: want them to tell me that unilaterally. I want to

1112
00:54:03,718 --> 00:54:06,518
Speaker 2: weigh to Let me ask the question, let the coach

1113
00:54:06,598 --> 00:54:08,958
Speaker 2: ask the question, and then and then tell us what

1114
00:54:09,038 --> 00:54:10,958
Speaker 2: you think God to me is the right way to

1115
00:54:10,998 --> 00:54:14,598
Speaker 2: do this. But to constantly fill your put your thoughts

1116
00:54:14,598 --> 00:54:18,838
Speaker 2: in the head of whomever. Last point unless and again

1117
00:54:18,878 --> 00:54:20,238
Speaker 2: this has got to be like really delicate.

1118
00:54:20,278 --> 00:54:21,638
Speaker 3: But you have a great.

1119
00:54:21,438 --> 00:54:24,198
Speaker 2: Relationship as a manager who the members given you the information,

1120
00:54:24,958 --> 00:54:28,198
Speaker 2: and then you you're you're more at ease with this

1121
00:54:28,238 --> 00:54:31,518
Speaker 2: person making suggestions to you, but you know it's a suggestion,

1122
00:54:31,598 --> 00:54:33,158
Speaker 2: and you know it's not one of those things I

1123
00:54:33,158 --> 00:54:35,198
Speaker 2: can ed it like you got to do this, and

1124
00:54:35,238 --> 00:54:37,358
Speaker 2: like you said, then a young manager is going to

1125
00:54:37,438 --> 00:54:39,718
Speaker 2: want to do this because he doesn't want to disappoint,

1126
00:54:40,158 --> 00:54:42,158
Speaker 2: doesn't want to do something wrong. I don't want to

1127
00:54:42,158 --> 00:54:43,718
Speaker 2: make a mistake. I don't want to have to answer

1128
00:54:43,758 --> 00:54:45,958
Speaker 2: to this. It doesn't and it's not even answering to

1129
00:54:45,998 --> 00:54:48,638
Speaker 2: the public. Don't want to answer to people upstairs. This

1130
00:54:48,678 --> 00:54:53,318
Speaker 2: is the tricky part about all this. So information's always

1131
00:54:53,358 --> 00:54:55,678
Speaker 2: been gathered. We didn't call it analytics. We called it

1132
00:54:55,718 --> 00:54:56,638
Speaker 2: advanced scouting.

1133
00:54:57,158 --> 00:54:57,278
Speaker 3: Uh.

1134
00:54:57,438 --> 00:54:59,958
Speaker 2: Now they call it analytics. It can be more precise.

1135
00:55:00,038 --> 00:55:02,798
Speaker 2: I understand that. However, it's kind of the same thing.

1136
00:55:02,838 --> 00:55:05,438
Speaker 2: And please stop calling a slur of the sweeper.

1137
00:55:08,958 --> 00:55:11,238
Speaker 1: I've actually come around on that. I'm okay with it

1138
00:55:11,278 --> 00:55:14,798
Speaker 1: because a lot of these pictures they want their pitches

1139
00:55:14,798 --> 00:55:18,478
Speaker 1: to be called the sweeper. So, but I think Joe,

1140
00:55:18,718 --> 00:55:21,638
Speaker 1: the bigger point here is we're looking at a final

1141
00:55:21,718 --> 00:55:25,238
Speaker 1: four here in Major League Baseball, where it's been reinforced

1142
00:55:25,478 --> 00:55:30,038
Speaker 1: that information is great. Knowledge is great, but it's even

1143
00:55:30,158 --> 00:55:33,318
Speaker 1: better when it's combined with wisdom. And I use that

1144
00:55:33,398 --> 00:55:36,678
Speaker 1: distinction all the time, that there is a huge distinction

1145
00:55:36,838 --> 00:55:41,478
Speaker 1: between knowledge and wisdom, and they're not competing forces, they're

1146
00:55:41,558 --> 00:55:47,118
Speaker 1: complementary forces. And why wouldn't you want both at your disposal.

1147
00:55:47,998 --> 00:55:50,278
Speaker 1: It's kind of like you as a manager, Joe. I

1148
00:55:50,318 --> 00:55:53,678
Speaker 1: know you've always said this, you want as much information

1149
00:55:53,798 --> 00:55:56,638
Speaker 1: as possible, and this is what we're talking about here.

1150
00:55:56,718 --> 00:55:59,478
Speaker 1: Wisdom is a piece of information. It's a piece of

1151
00:55:59,678 --> 00:56:03,478
Speaker 1: the decision making tree here. And I think having these

1152
00:56:03,518 --> 00:56:06,638
Speaker 1: four managers remaining here in Major League Baseball and as

1153
00:56:06,638 --> 00:56:09,438
Speaker 1: we've seen the last couple of years, is a reminder

1154
00:56:09,558 --> 00:56:13,038
Speaker 1: that that is valuable, that it matters, and that leads

1155
00:56:13,118 --> 00:56:14,718
Speaker 1: me and I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you

1156
00:56:14,758 --> 00:56:18,358
Speaker 1: about this. You know, stories popped up about your interest

1157
00:56:18,398 --> 00:56:21,118
Speaker 1: and getting back to the dugout. We do have certain

1158
00:56:21,198 --> 00:56:25,518
Speaker 1: jobs available. Not sure what's happening here with them, Joe,

1159
00:56:25,718 --> 00:56:28,718
Speaker 1: how far along teams are, But why don't you just

1160
00:56:28,758 --> 00:56:32,638
Speaker 1: tell our listeners here of your interest in getting back

1161
00:56:32,638 --> 00:56:33,398
Speaker 1: into the dugout.

1162
00:56:33,838 --> 00:56:36,038
Speaker 3: Oh? You know, I've believe me. Man.

1163
00:56:36,078 --> 00:56:38,878
Speaker 2: I've sat and I'm watching these games like we're talking about,

1164
00:56:38,878 --> 00:56:42,918
Speaker 2: and I've really done a lot of deep reflection on

1165
00:56:42,998 --> 00:56:46,478
Speaker 2: all this stuff and what I like to get back

1166
00:56:46,478 --> 00:56:48,918
Speaker 2: into Doug. I would, but it's got to be the

1167
00:56:48,998 --> 00:56:51,918
Speaker 2: right marriage. It's like anything else. It's got to be

1168
00:56:52,118 --> 00:56:55,758
Speaker 2: a group that I would be compatible with that understands

1169
00:56:55,758 --> 00:56:59,038
Speaker 2: that absolutely. Gosh, I was like at the forefront of

1170
00:56:59,078 --> 00:57:02,238
Speaker 2: all the analytical movement. I want information, absolutely, but I

1171
00:57:02,238 --> 00:57:05,918
Speaker 2: also want to be impact. I want I want the

1172
00:57:05,958 --> 00:57:09,118
Speaker 2: ability to do what I wanted, but what I think

1173
00:57:09,158 --> 00:57:10,958
Speaker 2: is the right thing to do in a moment. I

1174
00:57:10,998 --> 00:57:14,198
Speaker 2: want to be able to build the philosophy within the

1175
00:57:14,198 --> 00:57:18,598
Speaker 2: clubhouse and within the team on the field. I want

1176
00:57:18,598 --> 00:57:21,678
Speaker 2: that autonomy to be everything that I've learned over the

1177
00:57:21,718 --> 00:57:23,078
Speaker 2: last I don't know how many every years I've been

1178
00:57:23,118 --> 00:57:27,798
Speaker 2: doing this. But I do want collaboration. I do want cooperation.

1179
00:57:27,838 --> 00:57:30,558
Speaker 2: I've always been about that one hundred percent. But when

1180
00:57:30,598 --> 00:57:31,798
Speaker 2: it comes to the day of the game, when it

1181
00:57:31,838 --> 00:57:36,158
Speaker 2: comes to the actual game, the less noise, the better

1182
00:57:37,078 --> 00:57:41,038
Speaker 2: to be permitted to work among the coaching staff, the

1183
00:57:41,078 --> 00:57:44,638
Speaker 2: players and just kind of like, for lack of better term,

1184
00:57:44,678 --> 00:57:47,518
Speaker 2: do your thing, because what happens is when you get

1185
00:57:47,518 --> 00:57:53,518
Speaker 2: too many folks wanting to be part of the recipe. Again,

1186
00:57:53,558 --> 00:57:57,318
Speaker 2: the too many chefs thing, it just confuses, It does

1187
00:57:57,358 --> 00:58:00,558
Speaker 2: not clarify. It confuses when there's too many voices wanting

1188
00:58:00,598 --> 00:58:04,198
Speaker 2: to be part of the decision making process. So, yes,

1189
00:58:04,238 --> 00:58:06,118
Speaker 2: I'd like to do it. I'd love to do it

1190
00:58:06,118 --> 00:58:09,518
Speaker 2: with the right dance partner. Absolutely, And again, like I said,

1191
00:58:10,518 --> 00:58:13,158
Speaker 2: I would want to be empowered to do what I've

1192
00:58:13,198 --> 00:58:15,478
Speaker 2: learned over the last I don't know, thirty forty years

1193
00:58:16,518 --> 00:58:19,718
Speaker 2: with total collaboration, cooperation with the front office hundred percent.

1194
00:58:20,318 --> 00:58:23,398
Speaker 2: But when it comes down to game day and you

1195
00:58:23,438 --> 00:58:25,998
Speaker 2: get to the ballpark and after I've gotten everything I

1196
00:58:25,998 --> 00:58:28,798
Speaker 2: needed to be given that then you left your own

1197
00:58:28,798 --> 00:58:32,758
Speaker 2: devices to interact with your coaching staff, with your players,

1198
00:58:32,758 --> 00:58:35,238
Speaker 2: with the press, and not always have to ask the

1199
00:58:35,318 --> 00:58:38,158
Speaker 2: question could I say this to so and so? You

1200
00:58:38,318 --> 00:58:40,358
Speaker 2: just do it because you've been empowered by the group

1201
00:58:40,398 --> 00:58:43,838
Speaker 2: to do it and they trust in your judgment to

1202
00:58:43,998 --> 00:58:46,278
Speaker 2: say the right thing and do the right thing. That's

1203
00:58:46,278 --> 00:58:46,998
Speaker 2: what I'm looking for.

1204
00:58:47,238 --> 00:58:51,878
Speaker 1: Well, again, this is a reinforcement here. That's that's what works.

1205
00:58:52,438 --> 00:58:55,518
Speaker 1: These final four managers. I think if you watch these games, folks,

1206
00:58:55,558 --> 00:58:57,918
Speaker 1: and listen, we all love it this time of year.

1207
00:58:57,918 --> 00:59:00,358
Speaker 1: We all are managers ourselves in our hearts, and we

1208
00:59:00,478 --> 00:59:02,838
Speaker 1: manage along with them. We love the second guest. It's

1209
00:59:02,878 --> 00:59:05,558
Speaker 1: part of the fun of the game. But I think

1210
00:59:05,598 --> 00:59:08,398
Speaker 1: in these these four, with these four managers, you can

1211
00:59:08,438 --> 00:59:12,238
Speaker 1: feel confident that they're making decisions they truly believe in

1212
00:59:12,958 --> 00:59:15,118
Speaker 1: and they will all and I mean to a man,

1213
00:59:15,158 --> 00:59:18,958
Speaker 1: they will all step up and take responsibility whether it works,

1214
00:59:18,998 --> 00:59:21,238
Speaker 1: but especially if it doesn't work, and they will give

1215
00:59:21,278 --> 00:59:25,638
Speaker 1: you reasons why they did it. So it's kind of

1216
00:59:25,638 --> 00:59:28,678
Speaker 1: an old fashioned postseason coming up here, Joe, the LCS

1217
00:59:28,758 --> 00:59:31,318
Speaker 1: battle of wits. Yeah, that's that's a big part of it.

1218
00:59:31,398 --> 00:59:34,278
Speaker 1: We talk about matchups, pitching on hitting and vice versa,

1219
00:59:34,318 --> 00:59:38,438
Speaker 1: and catchers running a game. But eventually, you know, the

1220
00:59:38,438 --> 00:59:41,318
Speaker 1: managers come to the four. In postseason baseball, there's just

1221
00:59:41,358 --> 00:59:46,358
Speaker 1: so many decisions. Everything has consequence to it. They can't

1222
00:59:46,398 --> 00:59:48,118
Speaker 1: help but be part of the story. And that's what

1223
00:59:48,398 --> 00:59:50,958
Speaker 1: makes baseball so much fun this time of year. Really

1224
00:59:50,998 --> 00:59:53,198
Speaker 1: looking forward to these lcs's.

1225
00:59:53,078 --> 00:59:56,078
Speaker 2: Same here and again, maybe like just a time put

1226
00:59:56,078 --> 00:59:59,838
Speaker 2: a ribbon on all this joy. The word joy, the

1227
00:59:59,878 --> 01:00:04,118
Speaker 2: word fun, the word pleasure the word, you.

1228
01:00:04,078 --> 01:00:07,598
Speaker 1: Know, the.

1229
01:00:06,518 --> 01:00:09,078
Speaker 2: Thing that you've been striving to do or be your

1230
01:00:09,238 --> 01:00:11,758
Speaker 2: entire life, and there's got to be a joy attached

1231
01:00:11,798 --> 01:00:14,518
Speaker 2: to it. And that's that's that's really what I would

1232
01:00:14,518 --> 01:00:17,318
Speaker 2: want within this group that I would work for.

1233
01:00:17,358 --> 01:00:22,198
Speaker 3: Again, it's a joy for the day. This interaction is cooperation,

1234
01:00:22,358 --> 01:00:23,158
Speaker 3: this collaboration.

1235
01:00:23,998 --> 01:00:26,718
Speaker 2: Uh that when when somebody walked, if you're if you're

1236
01:00:26,878 --> 01:00:28,598
Speaker 2: if you're sitting there, if I'm sitting there talking to

1237
01:00:28,598 --> 01:00:30,998
Speaker 2: Tomboro Ducci in a room, that don't have to like

1238
01:00:31,078 --> 01:00:32,718
Speaker 2: really be staring at the door as he is going

1239
01:00:32,758 --> 01:00:34,838
Speaker 2: to walk in, so I have to alter my conversation

1240
01:00:35,678 --> 01:00:37,718
Speaker 2: when you get to that point and joy subtract it.

1241
01:00:38,478 --> 01:00:42,158
Speaker 3: That's not leading. Whoever's it's ever caused me to look

1242
01:00:42,158 --> 01:00:42,638
Speaker 3: at that door.

1243
01:00:42,678 --> 01:00:46,678
Speaker 2: You're not leading, You're you're you're attempting to control. I

1244
01:00:47,118 --> 01:00:50,358
Speaker 2: really love open dialogue as a manager. I want to

1245
01:00:50,438 --> 01:00:53,118
Speaker 2: be disagreed with. I want to be disagreed with with.

1246
01:00:53,198 --> 01:00:54,918
Speaker 2: They just give me a good reason why you're disagreeing

1247
01:00:54,918 --> 01:00:55,158
Speaker 2: with me.

1248
01:00:55,678 --> 01:00:57,878
Speaker 3: Uh, And I love that. I don't like that. I

1249
01:00:58,038 --> 01:00:59,158
Speaker 3: love that. I love.

1250
01:01:01,038 --> 01:01:06,118
Speaker 2: The altering an alter toinion. And I love a real

1251
01:01:06,198 --> 01:01:10,358
Speaker 2: good lively discussion based on disagreement and we're all going

1252
01:01:10,398 --> 01:01:12,518
Speaker 2: to get better by it. And I don't know that

1253
01:01:12,518 --> 01:01:15,718
Speaker 2: that's happening anymore because there's we used to have meetings. Man,

1254
01:01:16,798 --> 01:01:18,998
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, brother, no hol's barred. You can see

1255
01:01:18,998 --> 01:01:20,918
Speaker 2: whatever you want it with respect. I mean, you're not

1256
01:01:20,918 --> 01:01:23,318
Speaker 2: going to start attacking people. You're just you're just you're

1257
01:01:23,838 --> 01:01:27,758
Speaker 2: you're you're strongly presenting your opinion on something and you're

1258
01:01:27,798 --> 01:01:31,478
Speaker 2: being heard. I think that's all a real baseball person wants.

1259
01:01:32,198 --> 01:01:34,198
Speaker 2: The people that I grew up with, they could be

1260
01:01:34,198 --> 01:01:36,518
Speaker 2: in a room where they just cannot wait to get

1261
01:01:36,558 --> 01:01:39,238
Speaker 2: to this room with a bunch of other dudes and

1262
01:01:39,318 --> 01:01:42,478
Speaker 2: discuss what's happening with this organization, with this team, with

1263
01:01:42,518 --> 01:01:45,598
Speaker 2: these players, and just love every second of it because

1264
01:01:45,638 --> 01:01:49,078
Speaker 2: you don't have to withhold anything from within because you

1265
01:01:49,238 --> 01:01:51,478
Speaker 2: know it's not going to be taken the wrong way

1266
01:01:52,078 --> 01:01:54,518
Speaker 2: and somebody's actually gonna have their ears open to listen

1267
01:01:54,558 --> 01:01:58,038
Speaker 2: to you. That's what I know is missing a lot

1268
01:01:58,038 --> 01:02:01,438
Speaker 2: of situations and talking to different players, coaches and managers

1269
01:02:01,438 --> 01:02:04,238
Speaker 2: and even players, and that's what we're seeking. And that's

1270
01:02:04,238 --> 01:02:08,078
Speaker 2: what if you talk about baseball, folks that have been

1271
01:02:08,078 --> 01:02:11,118
Speaker 2: doing this well. They just seeking that openness, that open,

1272
01:02:11,158 --> 01:02:14,758
Speaker 2: fraank conversation. That's what you really get somewhere, and that's

1273
01:02:14,758 --> 01:02:18,078
Speaker 2: how you get better thick skin with respect.

1274
01:02:18,518 --> 01:02:21,838
Speaker 1: Joe, you always have some great quotations to take us out.

1275
01:02:22,318 --> 01:02:24,438
Speaker 1: I just wanted to before we get to you throw

1276
01:02:24,518 --> 01:02:27,278
Speaker 1: one out there that really resonated with me. And it

1277
01:02:27,318 --> 01:02:31,398
Speaker 1: comes from Twins picture. Pablo Lopez just a fantastic dude.

1278
01:02:31,398 --> 01:02:35,598
Speaker 1: By the way, besides being a great picture. Pressure is

1279
01:02:35,638 --> 01:02:39,518
Speaker 1: a privilege. I love that, the simplicity of it and

1280
01:02:39,678 --> 01:02:42,598
Speaker 1: just the way it rings so true this time of year.

1281
01:02:42,678 --> 01:02:46,238
Speaker 1: Pressure is a privilege. What does that mean? That means

1282
01:02:46,438 --> 01:02:49,638
Speaker 1: you want the big moment and you use that word joy.

1283
01:02:50,038 --> 01:02:53,278
Speaker 1: I think about players playing with joy in the heat

1284
01:02:53,318 --> 01:02:56,318
Speaker 1: of the moment. Not an easy thing to do. But

1285
01:02:56,478 --> 01:02:59,438
Speaker 1: I when I hear pressure as a privilege, I think

1286
01:02:59,478 --> 01:03:02,718
Speaker 1: of the two teams that I picked before this tournament

1287
01:03:02,798 --> 01:03:06,398
Speaker 1: began to match up the World Series, and that's Philadelphia

1288
01:03:06,438 --> 01:03:08,638
Speaker 1: and Houston. It's not to say the other teams don't,

1289
01:03:09,038 --> 01:03:11,238
Speaker 1: but there's just a little bit more that I see

1290
01:03:11,278 --> 01:03:15,758
Speaker 1: from those two teams. Battle tested, absolutely, but the DNA

1291
01:03:15,878 --> 01:03:19,638
Speaker 1: of these teams, you know, the extroverted nature of wanting

1292
01:03:20,038 --> 01:03:23,318
Speaker 1: the spotlight on them, wanting the pressure of a situation.

1293
01:03:23,678 --> 01:03:29,118
Speaker 1: Pressure is a privilege. That's why I went with Philadelphia

1294
01:03:29,158 --> 01:03:31,558
Speaker 1: and Houston. And I'm still there, so.

1295
01:03:32,958 --> 01:03:35,798
Speaker 3: I'm halfway there. Actually I had Philadelphia and Baltimore.

1296
01:03:35,918 --> 01:03:40,038
Speaker 2: But will, I mean, this is another incredible moment because

1297
01:03:40,398 --> 01:03:42,358
Speaker 2: again I don't know what Tom's going to ask me

1298
01:03:42,398 --> 01:03:43,478
Speaker 2: at this particular juncture.

1299
01:03:43,478 --> 01:03:45,358
Speaker 3: I didn't know you're going to come up even.

1300
01:03:45,158 --> 01:03:50,958
Speaker 2: With the managerial thoughts excuse me, or this Pablo Lopez quote.

1301
01:03:50,998 --> 01:03:53,838
Speaker 2: But I went with this and it's written down right

1302
01:03:53,838 --> 01:03:57,878
Speaker 2: here and it comes from Leo Leonardo da Vinci.

1303
01:03:58,718 --> 01:04:02,278
Speaker 3: That's crazy. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

1304
01:04:04,118 --> 01:04:06,718
Speaker 2: I wrote that down about an hour ago, and then

1305
01:04:06,758 --> 01:04:10,198
Speaker 2: here he comes with the pressure is a privilege quote.

1306
01:04:10,198 --> 01:04:13,158
Speaker 3: It's true, man, I have my T shirt. Do simple better.

1307
01:04:13,198 --> 01:04:17,558
Speaker 3: I always thought that that somewhat rival. Just do it.

1308
01:04:18,518 --> 01:04:21,798
Speaker 2: And when I thought about that years ago, and I've

1309
01:04:21,918 --> 01:04:23,838
Speaker 2: always been aware.

1310
01:04:23,638 --> 01:04:26,118
Speaker 3: Of reduce, reduce, reduce, make.

1311
01:04:26,038 --> 01:04:29,078
Speaker 2: Things simple so that if you want to present it

1312
01:04:29,078 --> 01:04:32,558
Speaker 2: to your guys in a hot situation, they can use it.

1313
01:04:32,918 --> 01:04:37,718
Speaker 2: They cannot use complicated. They cannot use a glut or

1314
01:04:37,918 --> 01:04:40,958
Speaker 2: a pile of information. They need a simple nugget thought,

1315
01:04:41,318 --> 01:04:45,158
Speaker 2: So do simple better, or as mister da Vinci said

1316
01:04:45,838 --> 01:04:49,798
Speaker 2: yours prior. To me, simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

1317
01:04:49,918 --> 01:04:53,358
Speaker 1: And I love that, love that. Joe looking forward to it. Hey, listen,

1318
01:04:53,398 --> 01:04:55,518
Speaker 1: we'll be back in the course of the LCS is

1319
01:04:55,558 --> 01:04:58,358
Speaker 1: to dive into what's been happening. I will be on

1320
01:04:58,598 --> 01:05:02,718
Speaker 1: the Unit Houston Texas series, So for me, you'll get

1321
01:05:02,718 --> 01:05:05,158
Speaker 1: an inside behind this, his look of what's going on

1322
01:05:05,278 --> 01:05:08,838
Speaker 1: in the dugouts, in the clubhouses, and with Joe, certainly

1323
01:05:08,918 --> 01:05:12,438
Speaker 1: you will get a perspective from inside the manager's head

1324
01:05:12,478 --> 01:05:14,638
Speaker 1: and what's going on in these games. He's lived it,

1325
01:05:14,678 --> 01:05:17,758
Speaker 1: he's done it, he's been there. So stick around. We'll

1326
01:05:17,798 --> 01:05:20,518
Speaker 1: probably take a look midway through the series at how

1327
01:05:20,558 --> 01:05:23,638
Speaker 1: we got through the first couple of games, and stick

1328
01:05:23,638 --> 01:05:26,318
Speaker 1: around with us throughout the postseason. On the book of Joe. Joe,

1329
01:05:26,318 --> 01:05:28,198
Speaker 1: It's always a privilege. We'll see you next time.

1330
01:05:28,438 --> 01:05:29,118
Speaker 3: Same here, brother.

1331
01:05:29,198 --> 01:05:33,118
Speaker 1: Enjoy the bus rides back in the old Texas League.

1332
01:05:33,238 --> 01:05:34,638
Speaker 3: Brother, I did it. I did it.

1333
01:05:34,718 --> 01:05:39,238
Speaker 2: Man first front seat on the right, pillows, blankets, air

1334
01:05:39,278 --> 01:05:41,878
Speaker 2: conditioning cranked up, and a good book.

1335
01:05:41,678 --> 01:05:46,518
Speaker 1: On my lap sounds good by me. Take care, it's you, buddy.

1336
01:05:50,758 --> 01:05:53,998
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1337
01:05:54,198 --> 01:05:59,078
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1338
01:05:59,318 --> 01:06:01,078
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.