1 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, do you think physicists and scientists will ever 2 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: come up with some equation that just describes everything, the 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: whole thing, you know, like one line of one line 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: of symbols that just that sums up the entirety of 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: all of existence, the whole universe, on a T shirt. 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: I'm sort of two minds about it. Like one, I 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: would love for that to happen because it means it 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: would be a singular achievement in the human intellectual history. 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: You know, it's like, actually unravel all of the mysteries 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: of the universe, which part to come up with it 11 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: or to put it on a T shirt? Um, yeah, 12 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: to get down to the base layer of knowledge and 13 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: reveal like the source code of the universe, that would 14 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: be amazing. On the other hand, that would kind of 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: mean physics is over right, Like that's the fundamental goal 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: of physics. And if we get there and then we're done, 17 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: like what are we gonna do? So, you know, we 18 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: have a whole raft of physicists becoming cartoonists or something. 19 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: So be careful. So your fear is that you'll be unemployed, 20 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: that's right. Don't work too hard, you know, if you 21 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: get too productive then you know, you work yourself out 22 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: of a job. That's exactly the concern. Maybe you'll just 23 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: take a little bit extra time to figure it out. 24 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: That's right. I'll figure out the theory of everything, and 25 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: I'll just keep it in a drawer in my office. Right, 26 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: and then the day before you retire, you're like, boom, 27 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: Nobel prize. Please before I die quickly, Let's put Daniel 28 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: out of a job. Let's make this physicist unemployed. Hi, 29 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: I'm Ran and I'm Daniel, and this is our podcast 30 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge explain the universe, where we take the 31 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: entire universe and we roll it up into a burrito 32 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: so you can eat it for lunch or put it 33 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: on your T shirt. That's right. Our goal is to 34 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: take everything in the universe and make us that you 35 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: can actually understand it. We're not eager to have you 36 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: feel like you're in the presence of a great scientist 37 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: hearing things you'll never really understand. We want to break 38 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: things down so you can really understand them, you know, 39 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: explain them to your grandma or that fat uncle or 40 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: family reunions. That's the goal of this podcast. Or show 41 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: off to your court, or is it the next water 42 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 1: cooler break, Yeah, or point out that they actually don't 43 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: understand what they're talking about, because you do, because you 44 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: listen to this awesome podcast. Today. On the podcast, we're 45 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:35,119 Speaker 1: going to tackle the biggest question in human knowledge. Right, 46 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: that's right, the most fundamental, the deepest, the biggest question 47 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: in human intellectual history. What is that question? For him? 48 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: Is it possible for humans to know everything? Do you 49 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: mean to know everything? Like? Where is that sock I 50 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: lost in the eighth grade? Yeah? Everything, some formula that 51 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: tells you where that so, you know, know, a theory 52 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: of everything does not include location of all lost socks. 53 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: That's impossible, right, And then we could just end the 54 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: podcast right now, because that's just impossible. No, A theory 55 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: of everything tries to describe the way things work. Right, 56 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: They can't possibly explain to all the details of everything 57 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: that has happened because there's a lot of chaos there. 58 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: But you know, a theory of everything tries to say, 59 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: we understand the way everything works. We have a system 60 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: that explains it, even the things we don't see or 61 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: where we can't see. That's right. It would have to 62 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: be a theory of everything. It would have to be 63 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: something that describes the universe at the deepest level, you know, 64 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: sort of like the the end of our quest to 65 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: take the universe apart into its tiny little bits, to 66 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: understand it at every level. That's right. Yeah, to have 67 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: a theory which from which anything can be derived. Right, 68 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: all of physics and biology and chemistry and economics and 69 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: everything would just be the emergent phenomena that flow naturally 70 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: from this one fundamental theory, and then we'll know everything basically, right, 71 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: except for where those songs are. Yeah, So I went 72 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: out and I asked people, do you think it's possible, 73 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: given the fullness of time and a bunch of geniuses 74 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: in the future, that physics could eventually describe everything, explain 75 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: everything in a single formula that goes onto a T shirt. 76 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: Do you think there's a theory of everything? Here's what 77 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: people had to say. Yes, Yeah, with due time, I 78 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: think research will elucidate everything that we're looking for. Like, 79 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: I'm religious, I'm a Christian, so I believe that there 80 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: are some things that got made that just can't be 81 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: described by you know, sciences. So necess what I believed 82 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: that cool, I think it could happen. Gives you such 83 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: confidence it's math, and math in essence can describe everything. 84 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: So in theory, we can use math to describe everything. 85 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: I think eventually, um, that can happen, but it's going 86 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: to take a long time and lots of work. All right, 87 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: So some people felt pretty off in in physicist. I 88 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: know those people. I love those people. They also sort 89 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: of terrified me, you know, I really appreciate their like, well, 90 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: physics has figured a bunch of about so I'm sure 91 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: given enough time, they'll figure it out, you know, Like 92 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: and the guy who said, like math describes everything, so 93 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: of course that's kind of cool. But also it's a 94 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: lot of pressure. You know, like if you feel like, well, 95 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: physics can figure everything out, then all you have to 96 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: do is sit in your office with pencil and paper 97 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: and eventually all the answers in the universe will come 98 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: to you. You know. It's um, yeah, it's a it's 99 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure. So I appreciate those people having 100 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: so much faith in us, but it's you know, if 101 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: we do figure out a theory everything, it's still a 102 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: lot of work. You want to leave a little bit 103 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: of room for like, hey, maybe we won't do it well, 104 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, Um, and some people, some people definitely 105 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: felt like it's impossible, you know, there's a gap. There 106 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: are things that humanity can never understand, you know. And 107 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: there was the one guy who thought, well, God creates 108 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: some things that cannot be understood. And there's some people 109 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: who just thought humans are not smart enough, you know. Um, 110 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: and maybe we've been watching too many political tuctures or something, 111 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: which you know, I might be of the same opinion 112 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: if you watch enough of those things. So it's like 113 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: people generally had faith in physicists, but not in human 114 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: beings in general, that's right, Yeah, yeah, And maybe those 115 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: people don't realize that physics is just people, right, Physics 116 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: is just people thinking. Um, there's no like deep physics 117 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: that's absent of humanity, right. Everything we do in physics 118 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: is a model inside our head, our attempt to understand 119 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: the universe. But it's always going to be inherently human, right, 120 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: it's nothing extra human about it. Well, you don't think 121 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: people like Einstein had some sort of extra capacity than 122 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: most people. Oh no, I think Einstein was a super 123 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: duper human. But we're all human, right, and we think 124 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: about the universe in a certain way. We perceive it 125 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: in a certain way. Things make sense to us in 126 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: a certain way. I mean, imagine if we met alien scientists, right, 127 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: what fraction of our human physics would be understandable to them? 128 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: Skip over the part where we have to like develop 129 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: a common language and you know, agree not to kill 130 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: each other. And you know, you've got a bunch of 131 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: the best alien physicists in the room and a bunch 132 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: of the best human physicists in the room. Everybody's wearing 133 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: the same lab coat, and you know, start comparing notes. 134 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: How does that go? Well? I think that's a really 135 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: deep question. I think probably we would learn more about 136 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,239 Speaker 1: the way the human mind works, like the human mind, 137 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: than the way the universe works, because I'm sure a 138 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: lot of the theories we've built reflect the way we 139 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: think and feel. Do you think it would be sort 140 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: of like if we got together with a bunch of 141 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: chimpanzees and we're like, hey, guys, let's talk physics. How 142 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: would that? You know? How that would go? They would 143 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: be trying to explain to them cut of physics, and 144 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: it just they just wouldn't be intellectually capable of grasping it, right, 145 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: even if you could speak to our language. Yeah, they 146 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: would probably just be throwing throwing poop at us while 147 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: we're talking about cloning physics, which you know, I think 148 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: I've had that experience in the classroom, you know, lecturing 149 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: to a bunch of people who just totally uninterested. Never 150 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: actually got to the throwing poop part of the equation. 151 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: But sometimes I do feel like people aren't interested. Did 152 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: you just call your students a inticence, None of my 153 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: current students, of course. No, They're all are all very 154 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: they're wonderful. No, it's not a question of whether the 155 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: aliens are smarter than us. I just think that the 156 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: theories we've come up with as humans are going to 157 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: be indelible human. You know, there are product of a 158 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: human mind, and they cannot be separated from that. So 159 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: I think it's until we meet alien physicists, until we 160 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: find another intelligence with different set of biases and perspective 161 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: and fundamental thoughts structure, that we can learn what about 162 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,599 Speaker 1: the physics we've developed is just human and what of 163 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: it is actually fundamental and inescapable. It could be that 164 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: we're seeing everything in the wrong way totally. Yeah, absolutely, 165 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: everything we've learned is filtered through our experience, our consciousness. Right, 166 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: So we have these few senses. If you have a 167 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: different set of senses, you experience the universe differently, you 168 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: think very differently about the way the universe might be structured. 169 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of deeply flawed sci fi 170 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: movies which touch on this really important issue, like Arrival, right, 171 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: you know, the Aliens and Arrival think about time differently, 172 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: and so I'm sure their physics is built in a 173 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: completely different way. Ours is built on our limited experience, 174 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: that's right, Yeah, absolutely, and a limited, very limited grant funding. Well, 175 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: let's bring it down. What does it actually mean to 176 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: have a theory of everything? Yeah? Does it mean an equation? 177 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: Does it mean a set of axioms you know, or statements? 178 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: Or does it mean like a little computer to which 179 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: you can input anything and will tell you what the 180 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: universe would do? Yeah? And it doesn't mean something which 181 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: will tell you where your lost socks are? Right? Um, 182 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: then what's the point and why are we even doing this? Man? Um? 183 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: You know, the entire physics enterprises just to help you 184 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: find lost socks. Um. In my view, a theory of 185 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: everything would be a set of equations that describe the 186 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: way the universe works at its most fundamental level, meaning 187 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: that from that anything else can be explained. You know, 188 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: take for example, our current understanding of chemistry, right, molecules interacting, etcetera. 189 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: Now can you use that to explain hurricanes, right, or 190 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: whether or you know, the solar system. Our current laws 191 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: of physics and chemistry can explain things that are larger 192 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: emergent phenomenon that arise from those more fundamental aspects. Right, 193 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: So that works. So when you say explain, you actually 194 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: mean like, we see something and then we can go 195 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: back to your magic formula, and your magic formula would say, oh, yeah, 196 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: I can see how that came to be. Or if 197 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: I run it then we get the same result. That's right. 198 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: Or you can encode those rules into a simulation and 199 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: predict exactly what's going to happen. Or you can be 200 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: super smart and do it in pencil and paper and say, 201 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: these equations predict that hurricanes will happen, or these equations 202 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: predict that planets will orbit the Sun. In this way, 203 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: all these things that we see that we experience, these 204 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: are emergent phenomenon. Right. There are higher level events that 205 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: arise out of deeper, lower level rules. Right. So there 206 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: was actually happening. You know, when example, you throw a baseball, 207 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: is all those particles are moving in tandem, and there's 208 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: all this quantum field theory that's happening um while that happens, 209 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: and you know, you can describe the way baseball moves 210 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: using a very simple parabolic formula. That parabolic formula can 211 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: be derived from the lower level set of rules. So 212 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: it's sort of like an onion. You know, we think 213 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,599 Speaker 1: about theories of the universe in layers. It's like the 214 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: equations to describe the way things work in the macroscopic level, 215 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: you know, baseballs. Then there's equations that describe how things 216 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: work at the atomic level, and then there's equations to 217 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: describe the way things work at the cork level or 218 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: the the electron level. Right, And so the idea is 219 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: a theory of everything would be the lowest level would 220 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: be one from which everything else could be derived. In principle, 221 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: it's like the rules at the very very very very 222 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: center of the onion exactly. Uh, if the universe is 223 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: a simulation, right, then this would be like the source 224 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: code of that simulation would be the basic rules for 225 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: which everything results. It's like you can have a rule 226 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: about economics Magrican makes you know, people respond to their 227 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: best interests where they go for the lowest price. That's 228 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: a good theory, and it describes this complex phenomenon, but 229 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: it doesn't actually tell you the most basic thing that's 230 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: going on. That's right, and the most basic dance going 231 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: on is, you know, a bunch of particles are slashing 232 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: around inside their head, you know, and you can describe 233 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: at different levels. You can describe at the particle level, 234 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: which is very cumbersome because there's so many particles that 235 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: doing these kind of calculations would be almost impossible. Or 236 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 1: you can describe it at the biochemical level. You know, Uh, 237 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: these dopamine and this sort of neurotransmitter and all these 238 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: things are happening. A lot of these things. You can 239 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: describe at lots of different levels, and you pick the 240 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: level that's most appropriate. Right, you want to solve a 241 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: problem involving a baseball, You're gonna do a simple parabolic calculation. 242 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: You're not going to go with a heavy hitting quantum 243 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: field theory calculation. Right, But the theory of everything in 244 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: principle could derive anything else. Right, You can derive those 245 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: laws of parabolic motion, from the deepest level, from that 246 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: the core of the onion. So that's the goal of 247 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: the theory everything describe everything that happens in terms of 248 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: the smallest, most fundamental units. Well, I think an even 249 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: bigger question is, how do you even know such a 250 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: thing is possible? Like, how do you know that everything 251 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: can be described by one equation or two equations or 252 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: three equations? Right? Like, what makes you think it's possible 253 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: to even understand everything? I know? It seems like hubrists right, 254 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: Like somebody eat a bunch of mushrooms and had a 255 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: vision and now they're like, yes, I saw it, man, 256 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: Like the universe makes sense man um Right, So it's 257 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: either a weed field dream or enormous hubrists um. What 258 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: makes us think it's possible is that we're making steady progress, 259 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: you know. Um. I think about the way the world 260 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: used to be a total mystery to people, you know, 261 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: thousands of years ago, so much about everyday life as 262 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: a mystery. And you know, we've cracked a lot of 263 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 1: those nuts. You know, everything that we thought was strange 264 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: or mysterious so we had to attribute to some bizarre 265 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: god with you know, unknown motives. We've understood in terms 266 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: of natural phenomenon that which follow rules. So for some 267 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: rea sas and we don't understand, it appears that the 268 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: universe follows a set of rules. And those rules are 269 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: fairly constant, and so we can discover them by experimenting 270 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: and tinkering and trying stuff. And humans seem to have 271 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: the capability, the mathematical, the logical, the scientific capability to 272 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: reveal these rules and then you know, use them for 273 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: good or evil. Right, So you're saying you have faith 274 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: in physicists and humans. I have some faith. I mean, 275 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: look at what look at what we have accomplished, and 276 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: I look upon my great arts, look upon my works, 277 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: he mighty and despair. Now I love that poem Asymandias 278 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: because it's both positive and negative. Right, be jealous of 279 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: what I've accomplished, because you are so small, Or if 280 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: you think you're so great, remember that I was ones 281 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: great and have now fallen into dust. Um. Yes, So 282 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: maybe that future physics looks at us and and says 283 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: they accomplished nothing. But I would say, what makes us 284 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: think it's possible is that we're making steady progress. I mean, 285 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: the kind of things we understand about the universe now 286 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: are incredible compared to what we understood a hundred years ago, 287 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: five years ago, five thousand years ago. But is there 288 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: maybe a limit? And let's get into it. But first 289 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. So my favorite thing about 290 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: the theory of everything is it's acronym, its initials T 291 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: O E. So really, when you're talking about the theory 292 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: of the universe, you're talking about the universe? Is big 293 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: toe right? Right? Such a grand idea humbled by its acronym? Yeah? Yeah, 294 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: not not a great pr move there by physicists. Now 295 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: we have to find that secret circle of scientists who 296 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: are in charge of naming this stuff, because they got 297 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: some real work to do. I mean, I got notes, 298 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: let me tell you. I mean, the particles got ridiculous names. 299 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: The theory of everything is a silly name. I don't 300 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: even know what the history of it is. Like. Who 301 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: was the first person to say theory of every Yeah? 302 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: I know that Einstein was one of the first people 303 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: would like, seriously go after it. Of course he didn't 304 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: make much progress. Why not the everything theory? Right? Better 305 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: everything theory? Yeah? I like that? All right, Um, you 306 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: should file a trademark for that. You'll get one penny 307 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: every time somebody says it. We talked about what it 308 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: means to say the theory of everything and what it 309 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: could be, and what we think when is possible? So 310 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: what do we know? Like, why isn't what we know 311 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: now a good theory of everything? What makes us think 312 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: that we don't have it yet? Right? Well, we do 313 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: know a lot. We've learned a lot about the universe. 314 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: And one thing that persuades us that things might be understandable, 315 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: that it might be a simple theory of everything is 316 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: that we're making a lot of progresses have been saying. 317 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: But it's more than that. Every time we peel back 318 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: a layer of reality and see what's underneath the description 319 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: that beneath it is simpler, right, Think, the level of 320 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: complexity required to describe the universe keeps getting simpler and simpler. 321 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: Like you know, for example, think about the objects in 322 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: the universe. You want to describe everything in the universe. 323 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: So there's like an infinite number of kinds of things. Right, 324 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: there's gas and stars and hamsters and ice cream and 325 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,239 Speaker 1: lamas and cartoonists and all this stuff. And you can 326 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: explain all of that using a hundred basic building blocks. 327 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: Periodic table. You can explain the periodic table everything that's 328 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: in that using just quirks and leptons. Right, you can 329 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: build any atom out of out of just quirks and leptons. 330 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: So the number of pieces you need to describe basically 331 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: everything we've encountered keeps getting smaller. So so to me, 332 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: that's progress. You're asking earlier, like why do we think 333 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: it's this is possible? How do we know we get there? 334 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: So we're making this progress, and I feel like, how 335 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: will we know we get there when we get to 336 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: the simplest possible theory, You know, a theory that has 337 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: the smallest number of bits and the smallest number of parameters, 338 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: and has no hanging questions, no room to say, well 339 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: why this and not that, or why these two different 340 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,239 Speaker 1: things instead of just one thing. So when you can 341 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: simplify it no longer, that's how you know you got there. 342 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: So it's kind of about the number of ingredients that 343 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: we think things are made out of. Kind of, right, 344 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: we went from a hundred elements in the periodic table 345 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: of elements to like an electron and small particles. You're 346 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: saying that maybe one day will get to one particle. Yeah, 347 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, if you go from 348 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: infinity to a hundred to three, the next step is 349 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: just two and one, right, right? That when the goal 350 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 1: is to get to one. Right, And the deepest goal 351 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: in particle physics is to simplify the universe and explain 352 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: it in terms of just one thing. And I've just 353 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: had like a sort of personal epiphany, which is I 354 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: realized that one of the reasons that physics appeals to 355 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: me so much is this attempt to simplify. Like in 356 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: my life, I'm always trying to simplify everything, Like, can 357 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: I get this simplify? Can I explain all these two 358 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: different things in terms of just one thing? Can I 359 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: just send one email to everybody? Is there a rule 360 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: that you know it kind of tells me how to 361 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: live my whole life? How do I respond to a 362 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: party invite? Or you know, is there a strategy for 363 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: making small talk and that works in any situation? And 364 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: I love that what you mean, You're you're always trying 365 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: to look for the underlying rules something. Yeah, I want 366 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: the theory of every conversation, right, I want to know 367 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: how to handle how to navogate a party conversation, no 368 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: matter what happens. That would be a fantastic theory. Hopefully 369 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: you'll figure it out before you start a podcast or 370 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: something a conversational too late. Is there a basic building 371 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: block of the universe out of which everything is built, 372 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: because right now we have twelve basic building blocks, so 373 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: we're definitely not there. Right we have six quarks and 374 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: six leftons. Only three of those twelve particles are ever 375 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: used to make atoms, and those twelve particles don't even 376 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: describe like the dark matter and everything else that's out 377 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: there in the universe. So not only do we know 378 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: there are other particles that we haven't discovered, but we 379 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: also have questions about these particles, like why are there 380 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: so many? It would be great to narrow that down. 381 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: So you're saying that we think there might be a 382 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: theory of everything because there's plenty of still stuff still 383 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: left to explain, basically, right, like, we're not there yet 384 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: because there's a lot we haven't explained. That's right, we're 385 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: not there yet, and we've been making steady progress and 386 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: at every stage things get simpler, and so we suspect 387 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: that if we keep cracking the nut, then we'll get 388 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: simpler and simpler nuts. Until eventually maybe we'll get down 389 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: to the one thing that it built everything else is 390 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,479 Speaker 1: built out of, and that would explain everything the peanut 391 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: of the universe. God, if we find that particle and 392 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 1: so many names at peanut, I'm gonna blame you for 393 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: that horrid that's right, it's because then there's going to 394 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,479 Speaker 1: be the anti peanut, you know, um peanut on I um, 395 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: you know bound states of peanuts and oh man, it's 396 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: gonna be a disaster. But you know that's not the 397 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: whole story. Right. There's particles, but there's then there's also forces. 398 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: So what do you think a theory of everything would 399 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: look like? Like, Like, it'd be like everything is made 400 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: out of the peanut, and the peanut can be form 401 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: an electron if it stacks up this way, or it 402 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: can form a cork if it stacks up this other way. 403 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: Basically like the idea of the peanut and how it 404 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: stacks up and how it gives rise to everything we 405 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: see around this. That would be sort of like the 406 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: theory of everything. Yeah. Well, the current form what we 407 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: use for to describe the deepest level of nature that 408 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: we currently know is quantum field theory and quantum field 409 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: theory works by describing the fields and the way the 410 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: fields interact with each other. So the fields give us 411 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: the particles, because particles are excited states of these fields. 412 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: And then the way the fields interact with us give 413 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,239 Speaker 1: us forces. And so currently you can describe everything we 414 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: know about particle physics just by describing these fields and 415 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: how they interact with each other, and so that we 416 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: can write down in a single equation it's called the Lagrangin, 417 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: and from that lagrange and we can derive all the 418 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: rules of how everything works, how everything interacts with each other, 419 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: and from that you get electrons and quirks and atoms. 420 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: That everything comes from this one equation, the Lagrangin. But 421 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: of course their problems with it. As we said earlier, 422 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of different kinds of fields, you know, 423 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: which generate all these different particles, and not everything is 424 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: described by this lagrangin. So that's what it would look like, 425 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: I think if it turns out that quantum fields are 426 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: the fundamental building block of the universe. But you know, 427 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: we don't nobody he believe that. But aren't aren't we 428 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: saying that maybe there's just one field that maybe results 429 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: in these other multiple fields, that's right, or like these 430 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: these other fields are just combinations of maybe one fundamental 431 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: field exactly. If quantum field theory is the right way 432 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: to think about the universe, then a theory of everything 433 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: as a quantum field theory would be a single field. Yeah, 434 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: and it could interact with itself, and that could give 435 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: all sorts of interesting stuff. In coming up with quantum 436 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: field theories, we've made a lot of progress and bringing 437 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: together lots of different kinds of things to describe them 438 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: in terms of just one thing. You know. For example, 439 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: we used to think of electricity and magnetism is completely 440 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: different things. You know. Electricity was like zapping stuff, and 441 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: magnetism was these weird rocks that pushed away each other 442 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: or attracted each other. Until people figured out, oh, actually 443 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: electricity and magnetism are two sides of the same coin. 444 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: They go hand in hand. They're like the same field. Yeah, 445 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: they're just two parts of that. There are two manifestations 446 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: of the same field. Right, So they go us to 447 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: it down to like a theory with one field. It's 448 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: called the peanut field. And alright, alright, alright, I'm on 449 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: board with the peanut field. Let's do it let's describe 450 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: the universe into So we got the peanut and we 451 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: got the toe. We got the mixed metaphors forhead the 452 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: universe a peanut or is it a toe? Maybe you 453 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: can eat peanuts with your toes and then you wouldn't 454 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: eat slocks. So hey, that solves all of our problems. 455 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: Let's leave folks with that visual and then take a 456 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: quick break while you think about eating peanuts with your toes. Alright, 457 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: So we were talking about the theory of everything, and 458 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: currently we have quantum fields, and we were saying that 459 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: the theory of everything, if it was described using quantum fields, 460 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: would be a single field, and that field would generate 461 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: all the particles because they would be excited states of 462 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: that field, and it would describe the way those particles 463 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: interact with each other and and form other sorts of 464 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: bound states, which would be more complex things like electrons, 465 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: and everything would be made out of these one fundamental 466 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: particle which came from this field, the peanut, the peanut 467 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: field exactly. Yes, what's interesting is that you're saying that 468 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: even if we have LATA in the future twenty years 469 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: from now, um, you know, I discovered the peanut field 470 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: and it describes the other all the other fields that 471 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: we know about. Right now, you're saying, we still wouldn't 472 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: know if that was it, if that was like the 473 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: ultimate theory. Well, it's hard to know for sure when 474 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: you're done, something is the ultimate theory, right, I mean, 475 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: say we have the peanut field, and it solves all 476 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: the open problems in physics and Jorgego's and collects like 477 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: five Nobel Prizes for discovering this thing. Right. It unifies 478 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: quantum mechanics and gravity, and it explains everything we know 479 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: and dark matter and all that stuff. It tells what's 480 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: what happened at the Big Bang, right exactly whether we're 481 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: in a multiverse, right, and this is totally possible. Right. 482 00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: But then you have that theory you write on a 483 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: piece of paper, and you're gonna have questions about that theory, right, 484 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: Like say, for example, the theory has a number in it, 485 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, because all of all of our theories currently 486 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: have numbers in it, you know, like speed of light, 487 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: or there's basic physical units, but there's also sometimes just 488 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: numbers like one or four or two or pie or whatever, 489 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: and you have to wonder, like what do those numbers mean? 490 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: Do those numbers reveal something deep about the universe, right, Like, 491 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: if your peanut theory has the number you know, five 492 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: in it, then that tells you that the universe is 493 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: fundamentally like five ish in some way. And what does 494 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: that mean? And that's a question, right, like why does 495 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: the theory of the everything have the number five in it? Yeah, 496 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: doesn't have to have a number. What if my theory 497 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,719 Speaker 1: is so pure and amazing and abstract that it just 498 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: doesn't have any numbers in it, right, exactly, So your 499 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: peanut theory has the number five in it. And then 500 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: a few years later some cleroscientists comes along with her 501 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,719 Speaker 1: theory that has no arbitrary numbers in it, right, and 502 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 1: she's like, actually, my theory is simpler than professor Jorges theory, 503 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: and so um, he's got to deliver me all of 504 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: his Nobel prizes. And so you know, that's how we 505 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: judge theories. We judge them by their simplicity. And that's 506 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 1: sort of what I was talking about earlier, Like it's 507 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: our human desire to explain the universe in terms of 508 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: a simple set of rules. Right. Maybe aliens think about 509 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: things differently and they don't look for one single equation 510 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: to describe everything, or a simplest equation, or maybe what 511 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: they what they think is beautiful is a huge chaotic 512 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: mess of an equation and for some reason that really 513 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: satisfies their itch to understand the universe. Right, I think 514 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: there must be something deeply human about this whole process, 515 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: and it's a bias we can't see because we've only 516 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: ever talked to humans about it. Interesting, like maybe aliens 517 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: are happy with this crazy theory that explains where socks 518 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 1: are and you know, do you know what I mean? 519 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: Like it's not reductive, it's maybe just like super complicated 520 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: because its all the little things exactly that could be 521 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:53,959 Speaker 1: It could very well be, and they could be like, 522 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: you guys are totally wasting your time. I don't even 523 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: know why you care. Right, And you know, there's another 524 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: stability and we haven't even talked about, which is that 525 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: there is no deepest level. Right. It could be that 526 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: it goes on forever. Things just get smaller and smaller, 527 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: and like particle A is made out a little bits 528 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 1: of B and and then you can make bees out 529 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: a little bit of C, and C is made a 530 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: little bit of D and Okay, so I shouldn't be 531 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: on the Particle Physics pr name and Committee obviously because 532 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: I can't come up with clever stuff on the top 533 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: of my head. But it could just go on forever, 534 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: then wouldn't it stop at P for peanut? Absolutely? What 535 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: I mean is what could be smaller than the unit one? 536 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like, what could be more 537 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: fundamental at one than one field and one particle? You 538 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: can't split one. Right. If you discover at some level 539 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: that everything the universe could be described in terms of 540 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: one field, that's great. But where does that field come from? Right? 541 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: Is that field the fundamental thing in the university? Was 542 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: like the first thing made and first thing coded in 543 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: the simulation? Or is it itself an emergent phenomena from 544 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: something simpler. Just because there's only one kind of particle 545 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's not made out of little bits of 546 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: another kind of particle, Right, It could be made out 547 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 1: of two halves or something else. Yeah, exactly, you know 548 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: two units of sub peanuts, you know, um that come 549 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: together to make the glorious peanut. Or you're saying it 550 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: could be sort of infinitely divisible, you mean, like you know, 551 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: like peanut butter, like maybe the universe doesn't have a 552 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: peanut in the middle. It's just this continuous, yummy smooth. 553 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: I think in the future you should have lunch before 554 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: we record these podcasts. Um. Yeah, it could be right, 555 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: It certainly could be. Although it seems so far everything 556 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: we understand about the universe is that it seems to 557 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: be quantized. You know that it's the smallest level. Everything 558 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: is quantized. So we think that particles or quantized excitations 559 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: of quantum fields um ruled the day. But you know, 560 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: it couldn't be that as you get deeper that you 561 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: get some sort of scale invariant matter that looks the 562 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: same no matter how close you get up to it, right, 563 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: that it doesn't resolve into tiny little bits. It's just 564 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: infinitely smooth. Yeah, that could totally be a post ability. Well, 565 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: you're going to do an interesting idea a little bit before, 566 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: which is, why do we even want the theory of everything? 567 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: Is it really going to help us cure cancer or 568 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: is it really going to solve global warming? If we 569 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: figure out these super quantum fields, what's motivating us as 570 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: a species to look for these simplifications. I can't believe 571 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: that an artist, a cartoonist is demanding practical, immediate benefits 572 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: for my for my profession. And excuse me, you didn't 573 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: even mention the possibility that there could be like a 574 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 1: deep human need to understand. You know that it adds 575 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: the experience of being human to reveal mysteries of the universe. Right, 576 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: It doesn't need to necessarily give you a better widget, right, 577 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: or cure cancer. It's just for me at least. It's 578 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: a deep desire to understand the world around me. I mean, 579 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if it comes out of evolutionary desires 580 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: to understand how things work so I can like better 581 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: protect myself from a saber tooth tier or something. But 582 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: humans have a deep desire to understand the way things work, 583 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: to reveal the rules and manipulate them. And so I 584 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: just really want to understand. And you know, of course 585 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: along the way, like funding for basic research has always 586 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: yielded tremendous technological advancements. I mean, we wouldn't be recorded 587 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: as podcast if it wasn't for funding for basic research. 588 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: So I can sing the praises of basic research um 589 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: for decades because of all the spinoff it's generated incidentally accidentally, right, 590 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: not intentionally, but fundamentally. The reason we want to do 591 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: is just because we have this deep desire to know right, 592 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: to understand the way the universe works. I mean, if 593 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: somebody told you, hey, Jorree, I have the theory of everything, 594 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,719 Speaker 1: do you want to know it? You wouldn't be like 595 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: past off, I'm I'm busy making a peanut butter sandwich. Right, 596 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: that would be an important moment, that would be like 597 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: a deep thing to understand. So we've made a lot 598 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: of progress and understand the theory of everything. You know, Um, 599 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: we have boiled down matter into twelve particles. We have 600 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: described all the forces in terms of just a few. 601 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: You know, we unified electricity and magnetism, and then we 602 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: also unified that with the weak nuclear force. We have 603 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: one force is called the electro weak force that describes 604 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: electricity and magnetism and the weak force. We still have 605 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: the strong nuclear force, which we haven't understood how to 606 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: put together with the other ones, right, and then we 607 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: still have gravity, which is a whole other mystery. We 608 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: can talk about a whole other podcast, which resists all 609 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: efforts to give it a quantum description and unify it 610 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: with everything. And even Einstein was not able to bring 611 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: gravity to heal um. And then of course there's lots 612 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: of things in the universe we don't understand which are 613 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: not described by these bits. So we made a lot 614 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: of progress in understanding, but we still have a lot 615 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: to go. So your basic message is keep physicists employed. 616 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: Is that the kind of that's right funding into physics, Yes, exactly, 617 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: it's worthwhile. People got a long way to go. People 618 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: think that we scientists have everything figured out, you know, 619 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: we can know these amazing phones and amazing technologies and 620 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: airplanes and rockets. You know, people sort of assumed that 621 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: why why do we need more physics, but there could 622 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: be a whole lot of amazing things ahead of us, right, yeah, exactly. 623 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: And you know folks a thousand years ago who were 624 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: surrounded by mysteries, there are lot of opportunities that ever 625 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: scientists to explain the way things work. These days, it's 626 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: pretty unusual if you walk down the street for you 627 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: to see something that you don't think has a scientific explanation, right, Like, 628 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: very few people see miracles or ghosts or things that 629 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: they think are outside of the realm of science. And 630 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: that used to be every day, and now it's like 631 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: pretty rare. I mean people go to magic shows just 632 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: to have that experience, right, Um, but but there are 633 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: lots of things that we still don't understand. There're are 634 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: things that appear in your everyday life there at the 635 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: particle level or the tiny little level, or the cosmic scale. 636 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: But there are huge questions about the universe that we 637 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: we still have to unravel. All right, Well, I hope 638 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: you guys enjoyed dipping your toes into this topic. Yeah, 639 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed this slice of everything and peanuts 640 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: and peanut butter, the peanut butter theory of the universe. 641 00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: It's spreading. It's really jiffy. Come see you next time. 642 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. If you still have a question after 643 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: listening to all these explanations, please drop us a line. 644 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. You can find us 645 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge that's 646 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: one word, or email us at Feedback at Daniel and 647 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: Jorge dot com.