Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of Iheartrading.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: my name is Nol.
Speaker 3: They called me Ben.
Speaker 1: We're joined as always with our super producer, all mission
Speaker 1: control decand most importantly, you are you. You are here
Speaker 1: that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us for our weekly
Speaker 1: exploration of listener mail up top. Before we get into
Speaker 1: any of this fantastic correspondence, Yeah, we want to thank
Speaker 1: everybody who took the time to write in about a
Speaker 1: very worrying catastrophe that just occurred and ongoing, the massive
Speaker 1: leak of personal identifying information here in the United States,
Speaker 1: particularly a little thing we'd like to call social security numbers.
Speaker 4: You know, it's something that we talked about. I think
Speaker 4: it even came up or we even as a group
Speaker 4: kind of posited like, well, how big of a deal
Speaker 4: is if stuff is getting leaked, if literally everyone's stuff
Speaker 4: is leaked, And we talked about off air around this.
Speaker 4: A good friend of ours and the show, Peyton Fisher
Speaker 4: called it a debt jubilee, which is apparently a term
Speaker 4: from the Bible, where it's like, well, if everyone's stuff
Speaker 4: is out there, then in theory all debt is forgiven.
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's how it play out, but
Speaker 4: it is an interesting thought experiment.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In this case, we're talking about the breach of
Speaker 2: National Public data, right.
Speaker 1: Yes, that occurred allegedly around April of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: A hacker group called us DoD took this information from
Speaker 1: this company that we just mentioned, National Public Data. They're
Speaker 1: a background check company, at least according to the lawsuit,
Speaker 1: this was the vulnerable part of the chain, and this
Speaker 1: data was not released as ransomware. It was released for
Speaker 1: free on a hacking forum. It includes the files of
Speaker 1: two point seven billion records, including stuff like a person's
Speaker 1: full name, address, DOB data, birth, social security number, and
Speaker 1: phone number. The reason this is a big deal is
Speaker 1: that certain financial institutions have a cartoonishly low bar for
Speaker 1: approving big financial decisions. So sometimes with just this information
Speaker 1: and a little bit of easy social engineering, you can
Speaker 1: do some pretty sinister stuff. Please don't please do be
Speaker 1: a good faith actor. But as numerous conspiracy realists have
Speaker 1: pointed out now is the time to get two factor
Speaker 1: authentication on everything you touch, and also just check in
Speaker 1: with all that boring financial stuff we all like to ignore.
Speaker 1: Now's the time to be actively interested in those boring things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is no reason for you not to freeze
Speaker 2: your credit right now. And there are a lot of
Speaker 2: apps that you can get on your phone that you
Speaker 2: can freeze and unfreeze your credit literally with a tap,
Speaker 2: and it is I just used this, guys. I tried
Speaker 2: to open a new account in something and they said, oh, well,
Speaker 2: it looks like your your credit is frozen. Now I went, oh,
Speaker 2: one second.
Speaker 3: When it work app?
Speaker 4: I mean literally out of personal curiosity. When I saw
Speaker 4: that that was the recommended move, it seemed daunting to me.
Speaker 4: So this is really helpful for me personally. Can you
Speaker 4: suggest an app that you found easy to navigate?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called LifeLock by Norton, especially sponsored by them.
Speaker 1: Okay, I guess by North And at this point we
Speaker 1: have to mention again there is no national privacy law
Speaker 1: in the United States, so once more, the burden of
Speaker 1: security falls upon you, in this case, an innocent individual.
Speaker 1: I guess we should also note originally they were trying
Speaker 1: to sell this data for something like three point five
Speaker 1: million dollars and then later they just gave it away,
Speaker 1: So let us know your experience with that. Be vigilant, folks.
Speaker 1: We're going to pause for word from our sponsor and
Speaker 1: then we'll be back to explore a peak conspiracy story
Speaker 1: that reminds us of an old friend.
Speaker 2: And we've returned and we're jumping to the phone lines
Speaker 2: immediately to hear a message from Kei Key, and I
Speaker 2: guess we'll just listen to the message, guys, and then
Speaker 2: jump into this. I would say personally, I am learning
Speaker 2: a whole bunch in the moment, maybe as we're going
Speaker 2: to go through Kiki's message.
Speaker 5: Hi, you can call me Kiki and you can use
Speaker 5: us on air if you would like. I am interested
Speaker 5: in I recently got interested in plane crashes, and that
Speaker 5: led me to the information about Mount Weather, which I
Speaker 5: don't know if you guys have ever covered or have
Speaker 5: ever been interested in, but basically what happened. This is
Speaker 5: a mountain in Virginia near DC, and it's run by
Speaker 5: Homeland Security, and then the nineteen fifties believe an airplane
Speaker 5: crashed into it, and that's how it became very obvious
Speaker 5: that there was a secret facility on the mountains, as
Speaker 5: there were a bunch of cars perked, you know, in
Speaker 5: the middle of the woods, next to nothing. I believe
Speaker 5: it was at TWA flight five to one. And this
Speaker 5: is now obviously something that people just know about. But
Speaker 5: you guys were talking about crashing planes into freeports and
Speaker 5: that reminded me of this, and I thought maybe you
Speaker 5: guys would be interested in this very weird thing that happened. Anyway,
Speaker 5: I have an excellent day.
Speaker 2: By thank you so much, Kiki. We are having an
Speaker 2: excellent day. You guys having an excellent day. Yeah, actually, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: but thank you so much for calling in with this.
Speaker 2: I did not know about this. I didn't know about
Speaker 2: TWA flight five to one four, which is a real thing,
Speaker 2: and that's trans World Airlines, by the way, And the
Speaker 2: date of that crash was December first, nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 2: It was a Boeing seven twenty seven, two thirty one,
Speaker 2: whatever that means. And guys, did were you aware of
Speaker 2: this plane crash or and or this facility not high.
Speaker 1: Yes, and only because of a fascinating conversation we had
Speaker 1: with an old friend of the show, Garrett Grath.
Speaker 2: Wait do I know about this then?
Speaker 1: Well, remember Garrett is a guy that we spoke with
Speaker 1: a few years back about Raven Rock. Yeah, he has
Speaker 1: a book on it, the story of the US government's
Speaker 1: secret plan to save itself while the rest of us die.
Speaker 1: So shout out, shout out to you, Garrett, because it's
Speaker 1: a great book. It's rollicking read. And Garrett is how
Speaker 1: I learned about Mount Weather.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's amazing.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: Just to refresh everybody's memory that all those things facilities
Speaker 2: like Raven Rock and the one that was mentioned by Kiki,
Speaker 2: this Mount Weather Ritt facility whatever it is, their continuity
Speaker 2: of government facilities. So as as our friend Garrett was saying,
Speaker 2: and it's if the s hits the f so hard
Speaker 2: that the government literally treats into mountains essentially or underneath, which.
Speaker 1: Is a necessary thing for governments to have. It's funny.
Speaker 1: And also, Tiki, thank you so much for calling in
Speaker 1: about this, because the history of Mount Weather is fascinating
Speaker 1: and also the necessity of those things being secret. He
Speaker 1: is a real pickle.
Speaker 2: Oh, it is a pickling. Indeed, a pickling must occur.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about how this facility Mount Weather was
Speaker 2: discovered via a plane crash, and we'll go to the
Speaker 2: official Federal Aviation Administration to see their write up, at
Speaker 2: least the official rite up of the FAA regarding this incident.
Speaker 2: So this is a plane, it was roughly twenty five
Speaker 2: miles away from the airport, and what occurred they were
Speaker 2: having to fly with just their systems, so they couldn't
Speaker 2: actually visibly see out the front of the airplane to
Speaker 2: know exactly what was going on. And according to basically
Speaker 2: the information that the pilots had, they believed they were
Speaker 2: allowed to go down to a certain elevation eighteen hundred feet,
Speaker 2: but unfortunately the actual lowest level that they could get
Speaker 2: to was like thirty four hundred feet, so they like
Speaker 2: they went down lower than they should have been, earlier
Speaker 2: than they should have, and what they ended up doing
Speaker 2: is impacting directly into the side of Mount Weather, into
Speaker 2: this area. And I guess because of reporting then on
Speaker 2: this incident, it was let loose that there was this
Speaker 2: facility on Mount Weather, which has a bunch of different names,
Speaker 2: by the way, and I don't know how many of
Speaker 2: these are current or how many times it was renamed,
Speaker 2: or how many types of facilities actually exist there? Right,
Speaker 2: different buildings that have a different group, But I'll name
Speaker 2: some of these for you. One of them is the
Speaker 2: Mount Weather High Point Security Facility. Another one is the
Speaker 2: Mount Weather Emergency Assistance Center, and another one is the
Speaker 2: Western Virginia Office of Controlled Conflict Operations. That sounds nefarious
Speaker 2: to me. Controlled conflict operations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is where we steer world events.
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially considering I think one way for us to
Speaker 1: understand why this place had so many names. Obviously, as
Speaker 1: you point it out, Matt, the secrecy, but secondly, perhaps
Speaker 1: the age of operation for this site. Right.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it has been around for quite a while
Speaker 2: and it is only sixty miles pretty much west northwest,
Speaker 2: I think, is how you would say it of the
Speaker 2: heart of Washington, DC. Do you have the history of
Speaker 2: it up in front of you, Ben, We.
Speaker 1: Know that it was originally a site run by the
Speaker 1: National Weather Bureau to launch balloons and kites. As a nation,
Speaker 1: we were still very much in our Ben Franklin phase
Speaker 1: back then. It was it was the late eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 1: I want to say, yeah, which is just amazing now.
Speaker 1: They were very they were doing very different things as
Speaker 1: the years passed, but we know that in nineteen thirty six,
Speaker 1: it weirdly enough, went to the Bureau of Mines and
Speaker 1: the Bureau of Minds made a this is where we
Speaker 1: would start writing a crazy piece of short horror fiction.
Speaker 1: So the story is back in nineteen thirty six, the
Speaker 1: Bureau of Minds created a short experimental tunnel beneath the
Speaker 1: mind to quote test new mining techniques. Obviously, when we
Speaker 1: write this story, they're going to be hunting for an
Speaker 1: elder guide, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But also what a great cover if
Speaker 2: you're going to build a secret facility, because, as you said,
Speaker 2: you don't want anyone to know where you were. Continuity
Speaker 2: of government, you know, Mountain is. But unfortunately, because of
Speaker 2: popular culture, and I guess because of unfortunate plane crashes,
Speaker 2: the world learns about these things. And well, and I
Speaker 2: guess Garrett Graft way to go, Garrett, just tell people
Speaker 2: about Raven Rock. We're just joking. We're just joking. But
Speaker 2: this place, guys, I pulled up a map, and we
Speaker 2: know about this because it's posted on a website called
Speaker 2: globalsecurity dot org. But there is a very high quality
Speaker 2: satellite image of this facility just overhead, and it shows
Speaker 2: you the different parts like the main support compound and
Speaker 2: the east portal and the west portal. I want you
Speaker 2: guys to look at this picture because I spent way
Speaker 2: too much time analyzing the Google Maps imagery of this area.
Speaker 2: Because you can look at it on Google Maps right
Speaker 2: now if you want to. I didn't realize the things
Speaker 2: labeled in this image west portal and East portal are
Speaker 2: the actual entrances to that tunnel you're talking about, Ben
Speaker 2: that was drilled at least originally. These this is the
Speaker 2: end trance to the cave system, the underground facility, the
Speaker 2: actual secure parts of this thing. And like it is huge, y'all.
Speaker 2: It spans a large part of this mountain. I don't know,
Speaker 2: is there anything else because I have to say about
Speaker 2: this because it looks there's a what they call the
Speaker 2: main support compound that's kind of at the center on
Speaker 2: the surface. It looks like it could be some weather
Speaker 2: monitoring equipment up there. It looks like, you know, there's
Speaker 2: all kinds of different office buildings set up there.
Speaker 4: Well, and like roads connecting all the different you know,
Speaker 4: wings or whatever.
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 4: Looking at this aerial shot that's on the identive dot
Speaker 4: com page.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting historical note. This is where a lot of
Speaker 1: Congressional members were flown via helicopter during or right after
Speaker 1: the attacks on September eleventh.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh wow, yeah, oh this is this.
Speaker 1: Is one of the bolt holes or was I think
Speaker 1: meant for this purpose and Kiki for you as well,
Speaker 1: for everybody with an interest in this, the existence of
Speaker 1: these things, especially the public existence of things like Raven Rock,
Speaker 1: and the public knowledge of things like Mount Weather the
Speaker 1: most the juiciest question, at least for me, is the
Speaker 1: next part. Where are the current bolt holes? Where are
Speaker 1: the current experimental mining tunnels or whatever cover story we're using,
Speaker 1: because you know, there have to be at least a
Speaker 1: few Antarctica Antarctica super convenient. Remember I've recently pitched you guys.
Speaker 1: I got this, I got reached out to you, and
Speaker 1: I was trying to pitch to you guys the idea
Speaker 1: of us traveling to do stuff they don't want you
Speaker 1: to know in Antarctica.
Speaker 4: I don't know if we'd make it back alive, Ben,
Speaker 4: I don't know if the ice mania would set in.
Speaker 1: The ice mania. Oh yeah, you been watching the terror.
Speaker 3: I have been watching the terror it's true, So.
Speaker 1: That maybe is the most fascinating question because we know
Speaker 1: logically sites like this must exist. They have to, there's
Speaker 1: no way around it. So the next question is what
Speaker 1: are the current versions of these sites where they located?
Speaker 1: You know, and Mount Weather is probably still viable. I
Speaker 1: don't know much about it, Matt, to be honest, I've
Speaker 1: never visited.
Speaker 2: It seems like it's fully viable, and at least as
Speaker 2: of writing from February of this year, it is controlled
Speaker 2: by FEMA right now. That's what's been stated on multiple websites.
Speaker 2: I you know, and by the way, FEMA is the
Speaker 2: Federal Emergency Management Agency which would come into play in
Speaker 2: a continuity of government situation pretty heavily. Lots of disturbing
Speaker 2: conspiracies about that group, A lot of them seem to
Speaker 2: be wild when you look at the facts. I don't know, guys,
Speaker 2: this just really got it piqued my interest when I
Speaker 2: was looking at it on Google Maps, because I was
Speaker 2: looking at like where could the entrances be? And I
Speaker 2: hadn't yet found anything that said where the entrance to
Speaker 2: the mountain was. But if you zoom in on Google
Speaker 2: Maps on these portals. It looks like just another building,
Speaker 2: like the roof of some suburban home, but like maybe
Speaker 2: a slightly larger office building. And it looks like there
Speaker 2: you can't see any ramp going down. You can't see
Speaker 2: anything that would tell you, oh, that's an entrance to
Speaker 2: a super secret underground facility. And there's two of them
Speaker 2: on either side, and gosh, I just want to drive by,
Speaker 2: but I don't think you can gain access to these roads.
Speaker 1: You can drive by ish. I'm sure. It reminds me
Speaker 1: a little bit of our investigation into the National Radio
Speaker 1: Quiet Zone, where all of a sudden you realize there's
Speaker 1: no cell service and there are creepy vans follow outsiders around.
Speaker 1: It's also going to be clearly it's going to be
Speaker 1: one of the last places in the United States with
Speaker 1: a proliferation of public payphones.
Speaker 2: Dude, I just want to put something wild out there.
Speaker 2: That is my own thought, and I'm just going to
Speaker 2: say this out loud, and it's silly. There is a
Speaker 2: fire station, a very large fire station that's a part
Speaker 2: of this facility, and it looks to have very similar
Speaker 2: let's say, ingress egress that the two entrances, the portals
Speaker 2: to the underground system have and I would just posit
Speaker 2: that I think that's probably the emergency in out to
Speaker 2: join that out there.
Speaker 1: You always want a couple of options, right, and the
Speaker 1: idea of this still being active is great.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: Another thing that would be fascinating is to hear about
Speaker 1: the interior, which we probably won't for quite some time,
Speaker 1: to say the least. Can you imagine, just for any
Speaker 1: any comms nerd, can you imagine how these contingency programs
Speaker 1: work for anybody who has ever thought, Man, I wish
Speaker 1: my WiFi was better. These guys have it on lock,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's the most amazing thing.
Speaker 1: One of my questions here and that the old Kiki
Speaker 1: let me know what you think. We know that it
Speaker 1: is hardened against munitions, right, it's hardened against nuclear weaponry,
Speaker 1: which is also incredibly expensive, and the best way to
Speaker 1: do it is to go subterranean. But does it have
Speaker 1: any kind of response capability is the question? I would imagine.
Speaker 1: Probably not, because you don't want all your eggs in
Speaker 1: the same basket, like your defense and your offense eggs
Speaker 1: all in one place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we just need to look further down the Blue
Speaker 2: Ridge Mountains maybe or maybe north to Bluemont.
Speaker 3: I'm just joking.
Speaker 2: I don't know anything about that stuff, but I think so. Hey,
Speaker 2: if you're interested in this and you want to learn more,
Speaker 2: you can go to the Guardian's website and read a
Speaker 2: two thousand and six two thousand and six article titled
Speaker 2: is this Bush's Secret Bunker? And it in that article
Speaker 2: headline yeah exactly. But in that article, well, which is
Speaker 2: it's a reference back to when Ben was talking about
Speaker 2: remember after the September eleven attacks, where you know the
Speaker 2: president may have run to. So I guess it was
Speaker 2: rumored back in six like if this was this the place.
Speaker 2: But they referenced in this article that there was a
Speaker 2: book called Seven Days in May where they reference inside
Speaker 2: this novel they mentioned a place called Mount Thunder and
Speaker 2: they basically referenced exactly where Mount Weather was. So it's
Speaker 2: not like this thing has been a full super secret
Speaker 2: all the way up until the seventies, and that it
Speaker 2: has been known about since the seventies. So hopefully we're
Speaker 2: not telling too many stories out of school. Let us
Speaker 2: know if we are, just leave us a little anonymous
Speaker 2: voice message or the email. All right, that's it for now,
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Kiki. We'll be right back with
Speaker 2: more messages from you.
Speaker 3: And we have returned with more messages from you. This
Speaker 3: is a fun one, guys.
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna read the message from an anonymous listener,
Speaker 4: and then this will come with a little bit of
Speaker 4: a disclaimer, a little bit of a warning, like a
Speaker 4: spoiler alert for your entire life and sanity potentially. Don't
Speaker 4: want to be too hyperbolic here, but tread lightly, y'all.
Speaker 4: We'll get to that in just a second. But here,
Speaker 4: let's get right into the message again from anonymous. Hey, guys,
Speaker 4: this video linked at the bottom is popping up in
Speaker 4: the YouTube algorithm now, and as soon as I finished,
Speaker 4: I immediately thought of you, guys, no idea if it's
Speaker 4: on your radar or not, but I figured it would
Speaker 4: be at some point considering the nature of your show.
Speaker 4: So I'll offer myself as a cog and the self
Speaker 4: fulfilling prophecy. The concept in the video seems to be
Speaker 4: completely silly on its surface, but underneath speaks to yet
Speaker 4: another way that information can be inherently structured to get
Speaker 4: people to do its bidding, sort of like a chain
Speaker 4: letter with a bit more of a philosophical punch. Throw
Speaker 4: it on the pile with misinformation, disinformation and all the others. Anyway,
Speaker 4: love the show, You guys keep me saying at my
Speaker 4: monotonous job banks anonymous, you keep us sane too, or
Speaker 4: insane in this case, potentially, we're talking today about a
Speaker 4: thought experiment called Rocko's Basilisk. You guys familiar likely with
Speaker 4: the mythical mythological figure of the basilisk, a serpent like
Speaker 4: creature that can kill you with one look from its
Speaker 4: evil eyes. And in this context, an informational basilisk is
Speaker 4: information that, by your very knowing of it can put
Speaker 4: you at risk. So that there is the disclaimer, y'all,
Speaker 4: Anyone that doesn't want to potentially spiral down an existent
Speaker 4: rabbit hole, maybe skip this segments. As our anonymous listener
Speaker 4: put it, the argument and the thought experiment here is,
Speaker 4: I would also argue, largely a bit silly. It's more
Speaker 4: interesting as a thought experiment than anything.
Speaker 3: But we'll give you about two seconds here to flip
Speaker 3: ahead if you want.
Speaker 4: These segments are pretty much trying to keep them at
Speaker 4: fifteen minutes exactly. Okay, everyone who's still with us, Roco's
Speaker 4: basilisk refers to a post that was made on the
Speaker 4: website less wrong, or I guess it was a maybe
Speaker 4: a reddit board less wrong or a message board, let's
Speaker 4: just call it. But there is a website for less
Speaker 4: wrong dot com that archives kind of important posts.
Speaker 3: That have taken place throughout the years.
Speaker 4: Less Wrong is kind of a futurist site discussing everything
Speaker 4: from like game theory to you know, artificial intelligence, singularity,
Speaker 4: stuff like that, things that would be maybe discussed by
Speaker 4: folks like Kurzweil and Nick Bostrom, free example, who he
Speaker 4: was interviewed by our colleague and pal Josh Clark on
Speaker 4: his incredible limited series podcast The End of the World,
Speaker 4: which specifically addresses existential threats, both.
Speaker 3: Theoretical and actual.
Speaker 4: So this concept of Roco's basilisk was posted on the
Speaker 4: less Wrong futurist message board slash website, and it actually
Speaker 4: created such a stir that the founder, Eliza Yudkowski, actually
Speaker 4: banned the thread and shut the thread down because it
Speaker 4: was causing such a hubbub among the users and the discussion.
Speaker 4: He put forth the idea that this violated the sites
Speaker 4: policy against spreading potential information hazards.
Speaker 3: And of course, like we know, when.
Speaker 4: Not the Beyonce effect, the Streissan effect, whatever, you try
Speaker 4: to remove something from the Internet.
Speaker 3: It just proliferates elsewhere.
Speaker 4: So here we go with the concept Rocco Who's the
Speaker 4: original post posited a future where an artificial intelligence had
Speaker 4: attained singularity and was so advanced that.
Speaker 3: It could essentially.
Speaker 4: Recreate every thought, every emotion, every event that has happened
Speaker 4: in the world, recreate it, simulate it thereby knowing what's
Speaker 4: in the minds and hearts of every human being currently
Speaker 4: living on planet Earth. And why would an artificial intelligence
Speaker 4: do that, Well, it's in order to discover who of
Speaker 4: everyone currently living was basically against the creation of this
Speaker 4: artificial intelligence. The idea being that this artificial intelligence, through
Speaker 4: discovering you know, the motivations and all of these things
Speaker 4: that that individuals in the world thought, could discover who
Speaker 4: knew about the formation, the the creation, the potential for
Speaker 4: this artificial intelligence and didn't do everything within their power
Speaker 4: as a human being to make sure that this entity
Speaker 4: came about. So anyone that did know and did do
Speaker 4: all of the things that would lead to the ultimate
Speaker 4: creation of this entity would be good. You know, your
Speaker 4: robot overlords prove. But anyone that didn't, that knew about
Speaker 4: this and didn't do it, didn't do everything they possibly could,
Speaker 4: would essentially be subject to eternal torture through various forms
Speaker 4: of simulation.
Speaker 3: Like one thing that's mentioned is the idea of.
Speaker 4: Artificial simulations of hell on Earth, the idea of making
Speaker 4: someone feel as though they were dying and then coming
Speaker 4: back to life, and then dying and coming back to life.
Speaker 4: The idea of you know, gaming people's neurons and people's
Speaker 4: sensory systems to make them just exist in horrible, horrible pain,
Speaker 4: you know, twenty four to seven, basically just a hell
Speaker 4: on Earth. The reason and that this thought experiment is
Speaker 4: a basilisk, the idea of this creature that can kill
Speaker 4: you with a glance, is that by knowing about this
Speaker 4: you are now subject to the wrath of the AI.
Speaker 4: Whereas if you had never thought about this concept, you've
Speaker 4: got to pass. But just by knowing about this thought experiment,
Speaker 4: you are now in the sights of that basilisk.
Speaker 2: Oh man, I have so many questions and ideas. Here
Speaker 2: are we saying that the AI exists already to be
Speaker 2: able to think about and want to make plans like.
Speaker 4: This, the AI exists in the future. Right, This is
Speaker 4: like terminator too stuff. You know, the OGI exists in
Speaker 4: the future and is able to create in the future
Speaker 4: where this thing exists a simulation that allows it to
Speaker 4: know maybe recreate the last However, many decades of human history,
Speaker 4: every single individual, every single thought that anyone has ever had,
Speaker 4: like the kind of simulation theory that Nick Bostrom talks about,
Speaker 4: essentially to such a degree that it would know every
Speaker 4: choice anyone would make, every action that anyone would have
Speaker 4: done that would have led to the formation the.
Speaker 3: Creation of it itself. Right.
Speaker 4: But the problem there is that only by knowing about
Speaker 4: this thought experiment, is this even on your radar to
Speaker 4: the point where you would be able to think about it.
Speaker 4: So it is kind of There's a lot of other
Speaker 4: concepts that are I think appropriate to discuss in relation
Speaker 4: to this, one being Pascal's wager, which is like this
Speaker 4: practical argument that the idea of believing in God. There's
Speaker 4: a French philosopher and mathematician named Blaze Pascal who came
Speaker 4: up with these kind of scenarios that would lead one
Speaker 4: to come to the conclusion that it's just the best
Speaker 4: to believe in God, because if God exists and I
Speaker 4: believe in God, I'll go to Heaven, which is infinitely good.
Speaker 4: If God exists and I don't believe in God, I
Speaker 4: may go to Hell, which is infinitely bad. If God
Speaker 4: does not exist, then whether I believe in God or not,
Speaker 4: whatever I'd gain or lose would be finite. So therefore
Speaker 4: the best thing to do would be just to believe
Speaker 4: in God. In this situation, one could argue the best
Speaker 4: thing to do would be to do whatever you can
Speaker 4: to help push forward the creation of this thing. But
Speaker 4: then it becomes like kind of arbitrary, Like what does
Speaker 4: that entail? How hard would I have to try? Like
Speaker 4: is there something that I don't even know that I
Speaker 4: was doing that would be counter and counterproductive towards the
Speaker 4: creation of this intelligence? It really is just kind of
Speaker 4: like a mind f you know, and ultimately kind of frivolous,
Speaker 4: But it is interesting at least in highlighting the idea
Speaker 4: of dangerous information things that mind. Just knowing it you
Speaker 4: can be harmed. Then I'm seeing the gears turning in
Speaker 4: your eyeballs. There if gears can turn in eyeballs, but
Speaker 4: I don't know, And man, I'm interested to see what
Speaker 4: you think. We love thought experiments and stuff that I
Speaker 4: want you to know. And I just thought this one
Speaker 4: was a very fun, if not kind of scary and
Speaker 4: ultimately kind of dumb one, but pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's get in front of the emails and shout
Speaker 1: out one specific science fiction story, in particular I have
Speaker 1: no Mouth and I Must Scream by Harlan Ellison, which
Speaker 1: absolutely describes the idea of the basilisk. And I love
Speaker 1: that you're mentioning Nick Bostrom as well. It makes me
Speaker 1: think of the paper clip theory, which is the nerdier
Speaker 1: version of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer's Apprentice. It's a
Speaker 1: similar thought experiment. The idea is, what if you created
Speaker 1: agi like true inorganic sentience, and you just gave it
Speaker 1: one dumb job. You said, hey, we're gonna make you harmless.
Speaker 1: Your job is to just make paper clips. But that
Speaker 1: thing therefore would run the danger of using all of
Speaker 1: the resources available in the universe to make anything it
Speaker 1: considers loosely defined as a paper clip. It would begin to,
Speaker 1: in the thought experiment, regard humans and all other organic
Speaker 1: life as just future paper clip material that needs to
Speaker 1: be transformed to accomplish the other goal. And I think
Speaker 1: this gets This takes us to anonymous. We'd love to
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on this. This takes us to one
Speaker 1: of the things often called the issue, or one of
Speaker 1: the issues people raise with the bassilisk theory is the
Speaker 1: question of to what degree are we attempting to answer
Speaker 1: pomorphize AI. You know, I think that's a fair question,
Speaker 1: but it's a really tough question to navigate. Now. I
Speaker 1: love this theory guys in general, because the concept of
Speaker 1: thought hazard you mentioned earlier, Pascal's wager, It brings us
Speaker 1: to another one of the old school arguments in and promised.
Speaker 1: We're going somewhere with this, the old school arguments in Christianity,
Speaker 1: in Evangelical Christianity in particular, which is, people don't go
Speaker 1: to Hell, but people don't go to heaven unless they
Speaker 1: accept Jesus Christ. Then logically, should you tell people about
Speaker 1: the existence of Jesus Christ, Will they like, are you
Speaker 1: just putting them in danger of going to Hell if
Speaker 1: they live and die without knowing? How can they be
Speaker 1: in trouble? Otherwise? Are you kind of threatening people with
Speaker 1: hell by giving them this info hazard?
Speaker 3: That is interesting Ben.
Speaker 4: But I think the way the rules work though of
Speaker 4: the Bible, or at least according to some people, is
Speaker 4: not is not knowing not an excuse?
Speaker 3: Or is that an excuse?
Speaker 4: It always makes me think of like the idea of
Speaker 4: that just because you don't know the law doesn't mean
Speaker 4: you're not subject to it. But is there a clause
Speaker 4: in the Bible that says if you don't know I
Speaker 4: was in the whole point of missioning and mission being
Speaker 4: a missionary to save people's immortal souls.
Speaker 3: Because of the fact that they don't know, they're basically
Speaker 3: damned to hell.
Speaker 1: Well, it goes to it depends on the doctrine. That's
Speaker 1: how people follow, right, But there are real world's consequences
Speaker 1: to this, regardless of anybody's personal understanding spiritual perspective. It
Speaker 1: leads to things like that poor guy who tried to
Speaker 1: proselytize on North Sentinel is don't go by the way
Speaker 1: folks don't go. There's a reason they don't have a
Speaker 1: tour sport. But the amazing thing about these kind of
Speaker 1: thoughts experiments, especially in the world of machine learning and
Speaker 1: inorganic intelligence, is that they will become increasingly less academic
Speaker 1: and more material as the years go on, and what
Speaker 1: we're seeing here is I think, exponential growth. So we
Speaker 1: kind of have to ask how long will something like
Speaker 1: this be a thought experiment?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm looking on less wrong right now, you guys,
Speaker 2: And it looks like a lot of people, at least
Speaker 2: according to this kind of I don't know, an archival
Speaker 2: post about Rocos Basilis.
Speaker 3: Basilisk rejected it based on something that I think is
Speaker 3: very valid.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, do you want to tell us?
Speaker 4: I just know it's you're yet I think I know
Speaker 4: as you're get that, just the idea of like would
Speaker 4: it a and that artificial intelligence that's this advanced waste
Speaker 4: its time expending resources on eternally torturing.
Speaker 3: People and it doesn't seem very efficient.
Speaker 4: And then to your point, that does feel like an
Speaker 4: anthropomorphization of artificial intelligence, like assigning some kind of vindictiveness
Speaker 4: to it that doesn't really seem to be a very
Speaker 4: efficient use of resources. If it was going to do anything,
Speaker 4: I would think it would just kill yes, all humans.
Speaker 2: Well, what I'm thinking is something we've discussed on the
Speaker 2: show before, like the potential for something like this that
Speaker 2: we're describing to have an actual perhaps perceived incentive to
Speaker 2: remove the humans that prevent it from expanding or growing
Speaker 2: or whatever it is, to making it more efficient at
Speaker 2: what it can do, and those kinds of things, removing obstacles.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm no philosopher, but it does feel
Speaker 2: like that's a viable thing to at least in matter
Speaker 2: and think about. But you know, using this imagined version
Speaker 2: of it where you can see and extrapolate all potential
Speaker 2: moves and thoughts that a human being could have had
Speaker 2: and had and all that idea, I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 2: maybe that's a thing, But in the end, it stands
Speaker 2: true to me that it would want to remove any obstacles,
Speaker 2: including human beings that wanted to stop it.
Speaker 4: But not just torture them, you know, just like just
Speaker 4: put it into it, you know, be the hammer and
Speaker 4: have the human beings be the nails.
Speaker 1: I guess it goes back to assumptions about what would
Speaker 1: the nature of desire be. Would it be the accomplishment
Speaker 1: of a task, what would any interpretation of something like
Speaker 1: the greater good? If such an interpretation existed, how would
Speaker 1: that be defined? And then also why bother Another version,
Speaker 1: a lighter version of anthropo riphization for AI would be
Speaker 1: that eventually, after securing resources needed for function, it would
Speaker 1: just want to hang with things like itself. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean. If you are a person right now,
Speaker 1: you might like pets, but when you go for a
Speaker 1: good deep conversation, you often end up talking to other humans.
Speaker 1: So the question becomes, who would an AI want to
Speaker 1: have a conversation with?
Speaker 3: Dude, you have noa.
Speaker 2: I have more conversations with his cat. Unfortunately when I
Speaker 2: make it out with him.
Speaker 4: No, but you're right, Matt does is a cat whisper,
Speaker 4: and that cat terrifies me, to be honest, but Matt ain't.
Speaker 4: But that's not afraid of the of the scratches, or
Speaker 4: I would posit has been infected with one of those
Speaker 4: parasites that you get from cat scratches that make you
Speaker 4: more sympathetic to their cause, toxoplasmosis.
Speaker 3: That's the one. I don't know.
Speaker 4: There's a couple of other I just do want to
Speaker 4: point out and give props to the video that the
Speaker 4: anonymous linked to in the first place, which was Roco's
Speaker 4: Basilisk The most Terrifying thought experiment posted by Kyle Hill
Speaker 4: as a Delightful Man Bun and as delightfully self deprecating
Speaker 4: about said man Bun and I think his channel is
Speaker 4: pretty cool, so I do highly recommend that. And then
Speaker 4: I went down a bit of a rabbit hole and
Speaker 4: also found Roco's basilisk a deeper dive warning info hazard.
Speaker 4: People are taking these these these trigger warnings very seriously,
Speaker 4: actually in every post I've seen about this, which is interesting,
Speaker 4: and that is from Windy Goon, another good YouTube resource.
Speaker 4: But both of those reference Pascal's wager and something called
Speaker 4: Newcomb's paradox, which is another thought experiment that basically involves
Speaker 4: kind of a prime mover the idea that the you know,
Speaker 4: a godlike or in this case, a godlike AI you know,
Speaker 4: could game the system. It basically means you don't really
Speaker 4: have free will in the first place. Newcomb's paradox, just
Speaker 4: the simplified version, is a problem in decision theory where
Speaker 4: the seemingly rational decision ends up with a worse outcome
Speaker 4: than the seemingly irrational decision. Basically, it's a scenario kind
Speaker 4: of like Schrodinger's cat, where you've got a a couple
Speaker 4: of boxes. Box A is transparent and always contains one
Speaker 4: thousand dollars. Box B is opaque, but its content has
Speaker 4: been set by the predictor, and it either contains a
Speaker 4: million dollars or nothing, and you can either pick one box,
Speaker 4: the second box, or both boxes.
Speaker 3: So obviously the right choice would be to pick both boxes.
Speaker 4: But in this case, if the predictor has predicted that
Speaker 4: the player will take both boxes A and B, then
Speaker 4: box B contains nothing.
Speaker 3: It goes deeper than that, and I'm.
Speaker 4: Probably this is a lot of this stuff is admittedly
Speaker 4: a little over my head, but I really want to
Speaker 4: get more into it. Game theory, all of that kind
Speaker 4: of stuff really does fascinate me. Ben, Can you maybe
Speaker 4: explain the box paradox the money situation a little better
Speaker 4: than I did. I don't know if it's something that
Speaker 4: you're familiar with, but it does seem to refer to
Speaker 4: a godlike entity that can essentially pull the rug out
Speaker 4: from under you at any time, making your ultimate choice
Speaker 4: kind of irrelevant.
Speaker 1: I guess what of the ways to put it simply
Speaker 1: would maybe take it out of the realm of AI.
Speaker 1: Just the short, simple explanation is, imagine you are playing
Speaker 1: a game, any sort of game, and there are only
Speaker 1: two players, but one player can predict the future with
Speaker 1: ninety plus percent accuracy.
Speaker 4: The playing field is certainly no longer level at that point, right,
Speaker 4: And I mean, one could argue in this AI model
Speaker 4: situation with the basilisk that the AI could kind of
Speaker 4: game the whole thing. And also it refers to this
Speaker 4: idea of this sort of being like an entity in
Speaker 4: the future blackmailing the people of the past. This is
Speaker 4: like informational blackmail, because the idea being that if you
Speaker 4: know about this and you think it might be true,
Speaker 4: then you're gonna do whatever it takes to not be
Speaker 4: in that camp that gets eternally tortured by the future AI,
Speaker 4: and by doing that, you are essentially being part of
Speaker 4: the thing that makes the thing come into being in.
Speaker 3: The first place.
Speaker 4: It's interesting, it's fun, but it really does start to
Speaker 4: cook your noodle a little bit when you think about
Speaker 4: it too much there, And it's kind of the double
Speaker 4: edged sword of philosophy. Like it definitely is interesting and
Speaker 4: can give you some semblance of like what are we
Speaker 4: in the universe, But if you go down far enough
Speaker 4: with some of these rabb holes, it kind of leaves
Speaker 4: you with more questions than answers and can kind of
Speaker 4: if you take it too seriously, be stressful.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you anonymous, so and so oh.
Speaker 4: And just yeah agree, And just the last thing, I
Speaker 4: think a really obvious example of informational hazard been to
Speaker 4: your point of like the idea of omniscience or predicting
Speaker 4: the future. If somebody, if a force, an entity, perhaps
Speaker 4: an AI were to be able to predict the moment
Speaker 4: of your absolute death and then told you, that would
Speaker 4: change your life fundamentally in terms of how you thought
Speaker 4: about everything, whether it's for the good or bad, it
Speaker 4: would definitely change your life. So that could be considered
Speaker 4: an informational hazard. I just wanted to mention that because
Speaker 4: it's sort of like one, and I think we could
Speaker 4: all somewhat relate to. So yes, yes, definitely, Thank you anonymous,
Speaker 4: and thank you Ben and Matt for the incredible insights
Speaker 4: and great conversation about this bizarro thought experiment. We're going
Speaker 4: to take a quick break here word from our sponsor,
Speaker 4: and then come back with one more message from you.
Speaker 1: And we have returned. We're going to hold on some
Speaker 1: listener mail correspondence that we're going to get to. We're
Speaker 1: going to get to it next week, folks. So we'll
Speaker 1: have some teases for that perhaps at the end. What
Speaker 1: we'll do instead here is go straight to a cool
Speaker 1: compilation of letters from home. Sometimes when we hear back,
Speaker 1: when we really we really strike a chord with our
Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realist, we have a bunch of people contact
Speaker 1: us about an earlier conversation, and in this case, we
Speaker 1: are happy to report that a lot of our fellow
Speaker 1: listeners have strong opinions about what they're very last meal
Speaker 1: would be. Now, I want to give a big shout
Speaker 1: out to everybody who took the time to write in
Speaker 1: thank you for being our favorite part of the show.
Speaker 1: I also I want to give a special shout out
Speaker 1: to mister Matt Frederick, the Man, the myth legend himself,
Speaker 1: who compiled some of our voicemail responses into something that
Speaker 1: I propose we go in and out of. We'll listen
Speaker 1: to some voicemail, we'll hear some hot takes from Twitter,
Speaker 1: and then maybe we'll check in with some emails too.
Speaker 1: Because people didn't just tell us their favorite meals, they
Speaker 1: also in some cases gave us recipes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh man, I'm trying to decide it to cook
Speaker 4: for dinner tonight.
Speaker 3: Maybe this will steer me in a certain direction.
Speaker 1: So let's start with some voicemails. Let's go to our
Speaker 1: first call it all.
Speaker 7: Right, Hi, guys, you can call me Dastardly Dan, and
Speaker 7: I just listened to one of your shows. Love the show,
Speaker 7: by the way, all of them.
Speaker 6: Anyway.
Speaker 7: It was the last meal request what would I have?
Speaker 7: And the first thing that came to my mind was, well,
Speaker 7: a file and a cake? Can I get the old
Speaker 7: file and a cake? Am I the first one with that?
Speaker 8: I hope?
Speaker 7: So, guys, file and a cake. And if he said no, hey,
Speaker 7: no files in the cake. Okay, If that's the case, right,
Speaker 7: then I turned that down. I'd say, well, I guess
Speaker 7: then one more person since I'm already in prison and
Speaker 7: you're going to put me to death anyway, so just
Speaker 7: one more person is a last meal? All right, guys,
Speaker 7: love your show, Thanks for listening to my message.
Speaker 2: Bye.
Speaker 3: Wait you're going to eat the person?
Speaker 2: I think that's what? Yeah.
Speaker 1: Here this is referring to a news story or a
Speaker 1: viral piece of social media that bade the rounds not
Speaker 1: too long ago, wherein a cannibal who was on death
Speaker 1: row allegedly requested a human being as their last meal
Speaker 1: thankfully has proven this is not true.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, that's good.
Speaker 4: And if anyone's interested in a deeper dive on last meals,
Speaker 4: we've got an episode in Ridiculous History where we talk
Speaker 4: about that very thing, written by Ben Bolan. Obviously, this
Speaker 4: has been a real pet subject for you and we've
Speaker 4: gotten into it through you. But the notion that you
Speaker 4: can just have whatever you want is pretty false. We
Speaker 4: determined through that research. So it's an interesting thing to
Speaker 4: talk about, but yet largely it's it's stuff they can
Speaker 4: prepare in the kitchen there at the prison, or the
Speaker 4: very least stuff available locally, and you're not going to
Speaker 4: get like the finest of cavias and French wines and
Speaker 4: ortalons or whatever.
Speaker 2: Surely they've got ingredients for a cake and somebody's got
Speaker 2: a nail file or some type of file laying around.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, it's really tough to escape with just a
Speaker 1: nail fut I've said too much.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, unless you're Andy Defrayane with the pick
Speaker 4: of a little rock pick. That took years, though you
Speaker 4: know it was a different time. She got to have
Speaker 4: poster of Rita Hayworth to cover up.
Speaker 1: The hole in the Wall, and we also have Alien
Speaker 1: Theorist Theorizing podcast. Hung out with these folks, the good
Speaker 1: friends of ours. There are neighbors to the north out
Speaker 1: in Canada. Check out their show. They came up with
Speaker 1: a grift where they said, you order this for you, Paul.
Speaker 1: You order Applebee's all you can eat endless shrimp, you
Speaker 1: will bankrupt the judicial system.
Speaker 2: Wait wait no, you only pay for it once, right.
Speaker 1: And they just keep I guess the idea is that
Speaker 1: you can avoid the proverbial hangman if you just keep
Speaker 1: eating like one shrimp at a time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're going to bankrupt Applebee's.
Speaker 4: Though, you know, but no, no, no, by by delaying, you
Speaker 4: could also potentially bankrupt the state the justice system because
Speaker 4: you're know, it's expensive to keep people on death row.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's true, that's true. It is also it's
Speaker 1: actually better for a society to send people to college
Speaker 1: it is to send them to prison. But uh, we'll
Speaker 1: leave that for a future episode. We've got some people
Speaker 1: who said, like Spinster Spice, they would want their last
Speaker 1: meal to be the Eucharist. There's one guy, just Melvin,
Speaker 1: who said a lote a lote a lote, by which
Speaker 1: I think it means all of it.
Speaker 3: I love a lote, so.
Speaker 4: If anyone's not familiar, I believe that's on the cob
Speaker 4: Mexican street corn. Whereas the skitas is the kind that
Speaker 4: it's like off the cob. But I like it off
Speaker 4: the cob a little better. But man, is it good
Speaker 4: with the creamer and the kind of mayo and lime
Speaker 4: and no zesty.
Speaker 1: And let's go to another voicemail message.
Speaker 9: Hi, guys, call me holme chef. You asked about last meals.
Speaker 9: If it was me, I would get a three course
Speaker 9: meal with a crusty loaf of bread. To make pumbowlis
Speaker 9: toast it, rub some raw garlic on it, just so
Speaker 9: that it has the flavor. Then rub some grushed tomatoes
Speaker 9: on it with salt, pepper, all of and a slmac
Speaker 9: glaze or aged theslmik drizzled on top. Then make a
Speaker 9: lemon white wine clam bucatini, and then finish it off
Speaker 9: with a lemon tear. Missou. I was thinking about my
Speaker 9: birthday meal, which is coming right up, and I just
Speaker 9: thought that sounded absolutely lovely for the e heat of August.
Speaker 9: Those are all things I can make, and that just
Speaker 9: sounds absolutely wonderful right now. Love the show, Love you guys,
Speaker 9: Thank you so much for having such interesting topics.
Speaker 1: Perfect, Thank you, Home Chef. Also not playing around there.
Speaker 1: I like the idea of the self empowerment saying these
Speaker 1: are all things I can make, you know, so it
Speaker 1: can't be too much to.
Speaker 4: Ask the pairing though, I mean all the citrus vibes
Speaker 4: and like, I actually just had that bread and raw
Speaker 4: tomato thing for my very first time recently, and it
Speaker 4: is a vibe. I believe it's a Catalonian way of
Speaker 4: having like kind of Christini's with like you really literally
Speaker 4: rubbed tomato on the bread and it's a wonderful, wonderful flavor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to eat all that Bukatini.
Speaker 1: Bukatini. Also, I am on record with the Daily Zeitgeist
Speaker 1: being a little bit militant about calling that my favorite pasta.
Speaker 1: You gotta think about the surface area. It's at the
Speaker 1: very least the superior or spaghetti.
Speaker 3: Agree.
Speaker 1: And before we move to our next message, Happy New Year,
Speaker 1: Home Chef. Congratulations. Birthdays are a big deal in our
Speaker 1: neck of the global woods, so we're so glad you're here.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, guys, I cannot confirm exactly when home Chef
Speaker 2: sent us that message, so we may have missed their
Speaker 2: birthday by a long time, so sorry about that.
Speaker 1: Well, technically we missed all the previous ones too, so
Speaker 1: happy birthday just across the board to everybody. There we go,
Speaker 1: and we've got another message here.
Speaker 6: You did say for me, gys were going on about
Speaker 6: last meals for a little bit, and you know how
Speaker 6: a lot of people stress eat. I can't do that.
Speaker 6: And when I'm like really anxious to really stressed out,
Speaker 6: like I cannot really eat substantial food, Like I can
Speaker 6: only like drink milkshakes or like eat cereal or like
Speaker 6: ice cream or like that kind of thing. Whenever I'm
Speaker 6: in like a really like nervous mood, I have to
Speaker 6: like physically like go through to the all the things
Speaker 6: I learned in therapy and all that refocus myself and
Speaker 6: then I can feel hungry again and start eating. So
Speaker 6: if I knew I was about to be executed, like
Speaker 6: I could probably really only have like a big bowl
Speaker 6: of ice cream and a cup of coffee. And it
Speaker 6: sounds not that bad of a last meal to me,
Speaker 6: but it's really like that kind of thing, is all
Speaker 6: I could really get down in a situation like that.
Speaker 6: I couldn't like eat a pound of brisket knowing I
Speaker 6: was gonna die soon. My body just doesn't want food
Speaker 6: like that when it's in a situation like that. So
Speaker 6: that's that would probably be my last meal. Maybe mint
Speaker 6: chocolate chit. Maybe there's this one. It's uh Kroger has it,
Speaker 6: I think up there call at Kroger here at City Market,
Speaker 6: but they have on the private selection this like BlackBerry
Speaker 6: dark chocolate, and like, I could die with that being
Speaker 6: the last thing I ate.
Speaker 1: Ah, a frame always coming in with a banger. Interestingly enough,
Speaker 1: you might be startled to learn that many, like several
Speaker 1: notable figures, chose coffee and or ice cream as their
Speaker 1: final meal. And one guy in particular had two massive
Speaker 1: pints of I think mint chocolate chip.
Speaker 3: Was mint chocolate chick. That was Timothy McVeigh.
Speaker 4: Wow, it's something that I hadn't really thought about either,
Speaker 4: just the idea of like, dude, who wants to eat
Speaker 4: a giant meal when you're about to be executed.
Speaker 3: Some people's bodies just would reject that notion.
Speaker 2: Well, we've got some callers who have an interesting solution
Speaker 2: to that. Issue.
Speaker 1: Yes we do. Let's continue, Hey guy, this says head master.
Speaker 10: My last meal would be a plate of deep fried
Speaker 10: chickens eyes no drumsticks. Yeah, deep fried chickens on drumsticks,
Speaker 10: two of them with like rice peel off and grilled
Speaker 10: corn on the cop Yeah.
Speaker 6: And I just want to save the record out of vegetarian.
Speaker 6: But if it was my last.
Speaker 10: Meal, I would get deep fried chicken.
Speaker 6: I'll catch you guys later, John for now.
Speaker 2: Ye oh yeah, gotta go with that fried chicken.
Speaker 1: I get it. You know that's also one of the
Speaker 1: most popular choices, is like a greasy spoon, hamburger or
Speaker 1: fried chicken. It is so popular. As we also have
Speaker 1: to know, there's an interesting bit of philosophy involved there, right.
Speaker 1: A lifelong vegetarian says, well, one last ride around.
Speaker 2: The chicken coop or I'm taking these chickens with me
Speaker 2: to the other side.
Speaker 3: I get to take them with you, Matt. Everyone says
Speaker 3: that everyone knows that.
Speaker 2: Well, it'll be in you, hella.
Speaker 3: You know what.
Speaker 1: Let's keep with the voicemail here, gentlemen, this is KP.
Speaker 8: Have my permission to use my name and my voice.
Speaker 8: You're asking about last meals before executions. First, I would
Speaker 8: insist in my home state of Alabama pulls the would
Speaker 8: like the chair back out of retirement from my execution.
Speaker 8: TI in mind, my last nail would be three Canda
Speaker 8: baked beans of raw asparagus and a polo raw broccoli.
Speaker 8: And I assure you, gentlemen, when the execution was over,
Speaker 8: you would remember my.
Speaker 1: Name, you utter legend, you mad lad KP for President.
Speaker 1: We've received so much more. I'll move some listener stuff
Speaker 1: to next week. We're going to hear about Venezuela and
Speaker 1: Colorado in a troubling way. We might finally get to
Speaker 1: Tom and the Dragon. But I thought one of the
Speaker 1: best things we heard in response to the idea of
Speaker 1: famous last meals comes to us from James on Twitter.
Speaker 1: And I think this is a really strong place to
Speaker 1: what is my favorite ideal last meal? Says James. One
Speaker 1: I didn't know was going to be my last. There's
Speaker 1: a poetry to that. WHOA, Yeah, it's making me rethink
Speaker 1: every time I have a snack, is this the last one?
Speaker 1: I better enjoy it?
Speaker 2: Don't they do that with some some places that where
Speaker 2: they don't let you know when your last day is
Speaker 2: and they just pick you up and take you there.
Speaker 1: Japan in particular, for a very long time. If you
Speaker 1: were on death row, it would just be one random
Speaker 1: day or one random time they would wake you up
Speaker 1: and say let's take a walk, which I think counts
Speaker 1: as cruel and unusual punishment. I don't know it's a
Speaker 1: philosophical difference, but it is something that I think is
Speaker 1: instructive to our larger operation here. We want to hear
Speaker 1: from you on listener mail. We want to thank everybody
Speaker 1: who took the time to check out our show and
Speaker 1: write to us. As we said earlier, if you want
Speaker 1: to learn more about the practice of famous last meals,
Speaker 1: which is extraordinarily ancient, then do check out our two
Speaker 1: part episode on Ridiculous History. In the meantime, thank you,
Speaker 1: of course to Dastardly Dan, thank you to anonymous Takiki,
Speaker 1: to home Chef, to a framed a Headmaster, to KP,
Speaker 1: to Tom and the Dragon, and to everybody else who
Speaker 1: hung out with us this evening. I said there were
Speaker 1: some letters I wanted to get to later, which we
Speaker 1: will do next week. In the meantime, we can't wait
Speaker 1: for you to join the crew. This show only exists
Speaker 1: because you join us. We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: We try to be easy to find online.
Speaker 4: Say you can find it to the handle Conspiracy Stuff,
Speaker 4: where we exist on Facebook, where we have our Facebook
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Speaker 2: maybe if you know about some other notable plane crash
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Speaker 1: the people who sent us some pretty amazing pictures of
Speaker 1: Peru based on our earlier series about the Eca Stones,
Speaker 1: which I think is kind of a banger to be honest,
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