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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern.

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Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Business app.

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Speaker 1: Or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 3: We're going to get to the situation in Israel in

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Speaker 3: a special conversation with former Ambassador Daniel Freed. Coming up.

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Speaker 3: But first history is made in the House of Representatives

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Speaker 3: as the gentleman from New York is expelled.

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Speaker 1: Let's listen, and.

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Speaker 4: In the Affirmative the resolution is adopted. An emotion to

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Speaker 4: reconsider is laid upon the table. The Clerk will notify

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Speaker 4: the Governor of the State of New York of the

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Speaker 4: action of the House under Clause five D of Rule twenty.

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Speaker 4: The Chair announces to the House that, in light of

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Speaker 4: the expulsion of the gentleman from New York, mister Santos,

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Speaker 4: the whole number of the House is now four hundred

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Speaker 4: and thirty four.

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Speaker 3: You have at the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson,

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Speaker 3: presiding three to eleven to one fourteen to remove George Santos,

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Speaker 3: fascinating one hundred and five Republicans voting yes. A majority

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Speaker 3: of Republicans that means this was again three eleven to

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Speaker 3: one fourteen, a majority of Republicans voting to keep George

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Speaker 3: Santos in Congress. Fascinating. As we write on the terminal,

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Speaker 3: the only real surprise was that it took so long.

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Speaker 3: And that's where we start our conversation with Jonathan Tamari

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Speaker 3: of Bloomberg Government. He was on the hill, he was

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Speaker 3: in the House when this happened, and Jonathan, it's great

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Speaker 3: to have you here. What's next now for this seat

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Speaker 3: and what's next for George Santos, Well.

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Speaker 5: For George Santos, I think it's anybody's guests, honestly, I mean,

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Speaker 5: just based on the wild ride that he has taken

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Speaker 5: us all on on these past months, I don't think

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Speaker 5: we could rule anything out. As far as what he's

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Speaker 5: going to do next. He did not make that clear

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Speaker 5: when he was leaving. As far as the seat, I mean,

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Speaker 5: this is going to be a petitive seat. It was

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Speaker 5: one when he won it. It's something it's a seat

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Speaker 5: that Democrats are going to go after in any kind

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Speaker 5: of special election that happens, and so it's going to

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Speaker 5: be you know, and now Republicans don't have the power

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Speaker 5: of incumbency to try to hang on to it. So

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Speaker 5: it's going to be one of those key House seats

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Speaker 5: to watch in the coming year. And for the time being,

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Speaker 5: at leads Republicans short one vote with an already really

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Speaker 5: narrow majority.

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Speaker 3: To your point, it sets off what will be an

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Speaker 3: important and competitive race here. The governor will announce a

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Speaker 3: special election. Is that right, Kathy Hochl has ten days

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Speaker 3: to get the ball rolling on that.

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Speaker 5: That's my understanding, and now I have to met I'm

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Speaker 5: not clear on exactly how quickly that special election will happen.

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Speaker 5: It usually takes some time to just get the mechanics

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Speaker 5: and the machinery of an election in place, for each

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Speaker 5: party to nominate somebody, to get ballots printed, and you know,

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Speaker 5: notices sent out to anybody who needs to vote. But

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Speaker 5: that is my understanding of what the general next step is.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it must occur then between eighty days after the proclamation,

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Speaker 3: to give you a sense of the timeline here, Jonathan. Lastly,

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Speaker 3: it's important to note the breakdown here. As I mentioned

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Speaker 3: three eleven, one fourteen, a majority of Republicans voting to

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Speaker 3: keep George Santos in the seat. Two Democrats did as well,

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Speaker 3: what did that have to do with? Was this about

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Speaker 3: the fact that he was not convicted? What are you

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Speaker 3: hearing from folks like the speaker himself and the Majority

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Speaker 3: leader but voted not to expel George Santos.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I and in the entire House Republican leadership, you know,

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Speaker 5: uniformly voted to keep him in Congress. The argument that

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Speaker 5: you hear in public is that they're afraid of setting

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Speaker 5: a precedent, that this was not a criminal conviction, that

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Speaker 5: they don't want to be kicking people out of Congress

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Speaker 5: for something that's less than who has not had his

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Speaker 5: day in court, so to speak. Other people would point

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Speaker 5: out the Ethics Committee did a full and throw investigation

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Speaker 5: and reached it their own conclusions. I think there is

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Speaker 5: certainly some manner of politics involved here Republican and knowing

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Speaker 5: how hard it's been for them to pass their legislation

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Speaker 5: with the majority as it is much less down one person,

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Speaker 5: and I think there's just frankly a bit of tribalism

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Speaker 5: that comes with any of these votes that people just

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Speaker 5: go to kind of shirts and skins in Congress sometimes,

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Speaker 5: and you know, one hundred and twelve Republicans voted to

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Speaker 5: keep him in office, and I think that is one

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Speaker 5: of the driving factors in almost every vote that happens,

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Speaker 5: including this one.

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Speaker 3: So we're down back down to four thirty four, and

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Speaker 3: that is the Congress and the House of Representatives that

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Speaker 3: Jonathan tomorrow will be covering from Bloomberg government. Jonathan, it's

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Speaker 3: great to have you back with us here. We'll get

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Speaker 3: into that more with the panel with Rick and Jennie

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Speaker 3: a little bit later on. As we turn our attention

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Speaker 3: on a day where we have multiple stories developing before

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Speaker 3: our eyes. The situation in Israel now resuming its war

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Speaker 3: against Tamas after this week long truce, the one that

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Speaker 3: was extended a couple of times, it got to seven days,

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Speaker 3: and within two hours of the truce coming to an

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Speaker 3: end last night, air strikes resumed in Gaza. Thirty five

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Speaker 3: five people were killed, according to Palestinian health officials. We

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Speaker 3: want to hear from the Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln,

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Speaker 3: speaking earlier about how we got to this point and

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Speaker 3: where we go from here. Israel has agreed to a

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Speaker 3: clear plan to help avoid civilian casualties going forward, speaking

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Speaker 3: as well to humanitarian aid. Here's the Secretary of State.

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Speaker 6: We saw Israel take steps immediately today to start to

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Speaker 6: get information of people about where safe areas are, how

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Speaker 6: they how they can get out of harm's way. And

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Speaker 6: we're just talking about right now today, and I haven't

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Speaker 6: had a chance to see exactly what what happened today.

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Speaker 6: I have seen that information start to get out. I've

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Speaker 6: saw the plans that Israel has in a multiplicity of

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Speaker 6: ways to do everything possible to affect civilians, including making

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Speaker 6: sure that they have the information they need and there

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Speaker 6: are ways to accommodate them.

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Speaker 3: And so this becomes a story of state craft more

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Speaker 3: than ever. As the Secretary of State speaks there from

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Speaker 3: the tarmac, and that's where we begin our conversation with

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Speaker 3: Daniel Freed. Why is her family distinguished Fellow at the

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Speaker 3: Atlantic Council? Is former Ambassador to Poland, former National Security

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Speaker 3: Council Senior Director, and spend time as well as a

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Speaker 3: citizen Secretary of State for Europe. Mister ambassador, it's great

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Speaker 3: to have you back here. What is the Secretary of

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Speaker 3: State's role in this could be any scenario that we're

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Speaker 3: talking about in dealing with an ally foreign government in

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Speaker 3: trying to control their actions in a time like this

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Speaker 3: when it comes to hammering out a deal that he

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Speaker 3: was describing a clear plan to limit casualties to what

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Speaker 3: extent can the Secretary of State drive that conversation.

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Speaker 7: Secretary Blincoln has both immediate and longer ranged tasks before him,

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Speaker 7: and if he looks tired, which he does, it's because

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Speaker 7: he is. This is not easy work. He needs to

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Speaker 7: keep things from flying completely apart in the Middle East,

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Speaker 7: to counsel the Israelis to have do and frankly better

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Speaker 7: regard for the civilian casualties of their military operations against

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Speaker 7: Hamas he will if he can try to negotiate I

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Speaker 7: suspect a new ceasefire, to resume the exchange of Israeli

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Speaker 7: prisoners and Hamas hostages. And he hass to do all

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Speaker 7: of this with his eye on the ball of an

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Speaker 7: actual settlement. It will take massive amounts of time and energy,

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Speaker 7: and that is the fate of US secretaries of State.

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Speaker 7: I remember that Henry Kissinger made NonStop diploy his means

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Speaker 7: of trying to bring an end to the Young Kipper

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Speaker 7: War in nineteen seventy three to stabilize things between Israel

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Speaker 7: and its neighbors and to set the stage, as it

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Speaker 7: turned out, or more progress ahead, ending ultimately in the

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Speaker 7: Israel Egyptian piece that was signed at Camp David during

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Speaker 7: the administration of Jimmy Carter. So that kind of state

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Speaker 7: craft Kissingerry in short term state craft that hopefully improves

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Speaker 7: things in the immediate term and set the stage for

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Speaker 7: sets the stage for progress in the medium and longer term,

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Speaker 7: is what the US administration is faced with. And they're

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Speaker 7: doing it. I mean they're trying. You can see that

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Speaker 7: with CIA Director Bill Burns in the Middle East and

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Speaker 7: Tony Blinken working with the Israelis. The administration is doing

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Speaker 7: what American administrations do in the world in general, and

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Speaker 7: in the Middle East in particular. We, not the Chinese,

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Speaker 7: not the Russians, have the ability to move things forward,

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Speaker 7: and that's what we're trying to do.

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Speaker 3: Does Kissingerry, and also imply continued shuttle diplomacy, Secretary of

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Speaker 3: State b Lincoln will be living on a plane. Whether

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Speaker 3: it's Egypt, whether it's Cutter, whether it's Israel. He's going

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Speaker 3: to have to stay in the region.

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Speaker 7: Well, I don't want to predict things in too much detail,

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Speaker 7: but yeah, I would not expect Secretary Blincoln to be

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Speaker 7: spending a lot of time with his children at home.

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Speaker 3: Got it that said, what do you make of the

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Speaker 3: CIA director being in the middle of this ambassador he's

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Speaker 3: not a diplomat, but our chief intelligence official has been

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Speaker 3: in the middle of this entire deal making process in

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Speaker 3: cutter Ah.

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Speaker 7: But Bill Burns was indeed a diplomat. He is not

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Speaker 7: a career intelligence official. He's a foreign service officer like

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Speaker 7: I was.

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Speaker 3: For sure forty years understood that's not his job now though.

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Speaker 7: No, But he was an expert on Russia and the

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Speaker 7: Middle East and the Middle East. He brings a credibility

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Speaker 7: and a depth of knowledge, and frankly, it's not a

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Speaker 7: bad idea to use all the assets you've got. Yes,

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Speaker 7: I detected in your question a bit of surprise that

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Speaker 7: a CIA director would be engaged in what is, frankly diplomacy.

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Speaker 7: But when you've got when you're dealing with a situation

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Speaker 7: like the US is dealing with in the Middle East,

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Speaker 7: you want all the assets you have to be working

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Speaker 7: full out to try to make things better. And Bill

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Speaker 7: Burhams has a lot of credibility in the region. He

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Speaker 7: knows it well, and I'm glad he's all in.

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Speaker 3: Ambassador free. The Wall Street Journal is reporting today pretty

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Speaker 3: remarkable when you consider the worries that many have had

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Speaker 3: about a second or third front opening, that Israel's intelligence

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Speaker 3: services are preparing to go throughout the region, if not

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Speaker 3: around the world, to kill, to assassinate Hamas leaders, setting

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Speaker 3: the stage as the Journal rights for a year's long

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Speaker 3: campaign to find those responsible for the October attack. That

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Speaker 3: means hunting down people in Lebanon, in Turkey and Cutter,

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Speaker 3: maybe even Russia, knowing Israel's history with assassinations, particularly against

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Speaker 3: Hamas leaders that have even include a remote control rifle

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Speaker 3: at one point to kill a nuclear scientist in Iran.

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Speaker 3: How worried does that make you about a second or

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Speaker 3: third front opening.

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Speaker 7: Israel was attacked by Hamas. Hamas is not a government.

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Speaker 7: Hamas is a terrorist group, and its brutality was on display.

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Speaker 7: If you asked me what of my preference, I would

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Speaker 7: rather have Israel engaged in targeted, discrete actions rather than

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Speaker 7: wholesale bombing, which kills lots of civilians. Israel's options aren't good.

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Speaker 7: The United States has rightly been pushing the Israelis to

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Speaker 7: up its game with respect to the Gaza military operations

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Speaker 7: and not create so much death and destruction, So we

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Speaker 7: cannot tell the Israelis at the same time to act

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Speaker 7: in a precise manner and then not act in a

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Speaker 7: precise manner against Amas. Amas is an enemy of all.

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Speaker 7: I'd rather have the Israelis focused on a legitimate target

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Speaker 7: than going after targets in Gaza which end up with

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Speaker 7: a lot of innocent Palestinians dead, displaced, or injured.

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Speaker 1: How about that.

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Speaker 3: I only have a minute left, Ambassador. I don't want

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Speaker 3: to rush you out here, but the New York Times

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Speaker 3: meantime is reporting that Israel actually possessed Hamas's detailed attack

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Speaker 3: plan yes October seven for more than a year, decided

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Speaker 3: it wouldn't likely become reality. To what extent is this

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Speaker 3: an intelligence failure?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 7: It is a big intelligence failure. I am sadly familiar

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Speaker 7: with instances in which intelligence analysts have correctly discerned an

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Speaker 7: adversary's intentions, only to be ignored by the system. I've

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Speaker 7: seen this. I have some personal experience with this from

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Speaker 7: my own career. It happens it was a failure because

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Speaker 7: the intelligence assessments, according to the New York Times, and

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Speaker 7: the article felt right to me. According to that article,

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Speaker 7: the intelligence assessments coming up alided with a preset series

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Speaker 7: of judgments and prejudices from the Israeli establishment that Hamas

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Speaker 7: was incapable of conducting such a such an operation, and

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Speaker 7: that Hamas was intimidated by Israel. Yes, this was an

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Speaker 7: error of judgment. I've seen these errors before, including in

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Speaker 7: my own government.

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Speaker 3: Always a fascinating conversation with the Ambassador Daniel Freed. We

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Speaker 3: thank you as always. Have a great weekend.

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Speaker 5: Sir.

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Speaker 3: This is sound On. I'm Joe Matthew, only on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

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Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

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Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 3: George Santos expelled from Congress Earlier today. We brought you

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Speaker 3: the details a bit earlier. We're going to dive into

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Speaker 3: this a bit more because there are a lot of

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Speaker 3: questions about what happens next to this seat, and you

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Speaker 3: better believe that Bloomberg is all over that story. Santos

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Speaker 3: expelled from Congress after tumultuous year of lies. I read

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Speaker 3: on the terminal and Simone Foxman is taking this a

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Speaker 3: step further to understand what's going to happen next. As

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Speaker 3: Kathy help Will prepares for a special election, she's with

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Speaker 3: me here in New York's Moment's great to see you,

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Speaker 3: Thank you for coming back, Thanks to tactors today. The

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Speaker 3: story yesterday was Andrew Cuomo. Today it's another guy who's

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Speaker 3: considered a troublemaker by many. George Santos, You've got a

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Speaker 3: special election that you're going to be covering here. It

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Speaker 3: looks like soon the governor has ten days to deliver

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Speaker 3: the proclamation, yes.

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Speaker 8: And then we have seventy to eighty days from that day.

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Speaker 8: So overall we're looking probably going to see a special

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Speaker 8: election sometime mid to late February. Okay, but you know

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Speaker 8: it's going to be an election where there's going to

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Speaker 8: be a lot of national dollars rolling in. We see

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Speaker 8: this is a tightly contested election, and I think it's

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Speaker 8: also a first test for the Republicans, who were able

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Speaker 8: to pick up quite a few seats in New York

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Speaker 8: back in twenty twenty two. That was really a surprise

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Speaker 8: and that was a key bit of what propelled them

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Speaker 8: to the majority in the House. So this is going

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Speaker 8: to be an important election.

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Speaker 3: Well, Democrats seem awfully optimistic about this. They think this

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Speaker 3: is already over, We're going to flip that seat. Did

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Speaker 3: it become more difficult for them to do that having

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Speaker 3: George Santos removed a year before the election, giving Republicans

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Speaker 3: that much lead time to kind of reframe what happened.

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Speaker 8: You know, it's interesting because initially they have probably the

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Speaker 8: candidate with the most name recognition in tom Swazi. He

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Speaker 8: did represent that district before twenty twenty two. He's there,

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Speaker 8: he exists, he's lowed people know who he is. He

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Speaker 8: by the way, did not run for that seat in

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Speaker 8: twenty twenty two in order to take on the governor

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Speaker 8: and that was a failed campaign. So now he's back

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Speaker 8: on the Republican side. There just aren't as many visible

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Speaker 8: challengers that are really super well known, and so I

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Speaker 8: think it gives the Democrats an edge in the near

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Speaker 8: chure that said, you know, do you come back in

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Speaker 8: November and have a replay of this race is probably

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Speaker 8: the case. So so the calculus stair is a little

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Speaker 8: bit less clear.

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Speaker 3: You surprised to see the numbers on this. A majority

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Speaker 3: of Republicans, including the leadership, voted to keep him in.

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Speaker 8: Well, there was there was a momentum gaining pace right

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Speaker 8: ahead of this vote. We really weren't sure which way

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Speaker 8: it was going to go, and it seemed very obvious

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Speaker 8: earlier in the week that you know, he was going

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Speaker 8: to be expelled. Then kind of the momentum shifted, but

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Speaker 8: finally at the end, you know, the thing is these seats,

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Speaker 8: each seat is crucial to kind of keeping the Republicans

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Speaker 8: dominant in the House. And so you have a guy

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Speaker 8: who lies very loudly. He was already going to be

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Speaker 8: on his way out at the end of twenty two.

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Speaker 8: Maybe people were holding their nose and saying.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well we you know, were doing some speculating earlier,

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Speaker 3: and you probably have done a bit yourself, maybe if

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Speaker 3: only thinking quietly about what might be now for him.

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Speaker 3: First of all, it's going to court, right, do we

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Speaker 3: know what it looks like for George Santos with the

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Speaker 3: year ahead might include in terms of seeing him in

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Speaker 3: the throes of legal struggles, or will he be free

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Speaker 3: to write a book, to go do reality TV or

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Speaker 3: what might be next.

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Speaker 8: I mean, I can speculate here. He says he's going

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Speaker 8: to be pretty loud. He's going to name names. I

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Speaker 8: think we should.

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Speaker 3: Expect someone to start a Twitter show or something, you know.

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Speaker 8: But he's become the sort of counter culture figure, right.

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Speaker 3: That's why someone's got to give him money to do something.

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Speaker 8: I imagine I still.

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Speaker 3: Say Dancing with the Stars, but I mean it could

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Speaker 3: be a book, it could be an expose of some

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Speaker 3: sort whatever. He's not going to be sitting home alone.

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Speaker 8: I'm guessing, no, I don't. I don't think so. But

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Speaker 8: he is going to have to face what looks like

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Speaker 8: a pretty serious allegations and I'm sure we will hear

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Speaker 8: the play by play that will be the news that

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Speaker 8: Santis is involved, you know, and you never know. I

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Speaker 8: think the establishment has very much written him off. They

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Speaker 8: don't think he has that much to say, but sure

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Speaker 8: we'll see. I guess people will.

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Speaker 3: Pay for crazy things. Plus, America loves a comeback story.

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Speaker 7: I don't do.

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Speaker 8: I mean, well, we have, you know, the comeback story

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Speaker 8: in potentially Nasau County and parts of Queen's Tom Swase.

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Speaker 8: So admittedly he's never really truly.

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Speaker 3: Gone away, so you included the Swazi tweet in your story.

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Speaker 3: He writes, this is a much needed step in our

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Speaker 3: journey to repair a broken system. We must prove beyond

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Speaker 3: our petty partisan performative finger pointing and address the real

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Speaker 3: problems NASA on Queen's residents face. Let's fix this to

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Speaker 3: your point. He's here, he's allowed. And so there are a.

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Speaker 8: Few others, you know, there are a few others. Anna

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Speaker 8: Kaplan was one a lot of people were speaking about

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Speaker 8: in the party, potentially considering Austin Chang. He's a businessman,

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Speaker 8: healthcare owns or CEO of a healthcare business. Robert Zimmerman

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Speaker 8: who lost to Santos. And then, you know, as I

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Speaker 8: was saying, the Republican side is just a a lot

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Speaker 8: less clearer because the key guy who's been thought of,

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Speaker 8: as you know, possibly having enough name recognition is Jack

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Speaker 8: Martin's and he's made some statements that he doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 8: want to go to Congress.

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Speaker 3: All right, so we're drafting you right now. Okay, I

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Speaker 3: don't know this, but you've just been drafted to come

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Speaker 3: back on a regular basis and talk to us about

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Speaker 3: what's going on in this race and what's happening up

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Speaker 3: you're here on sound On. When we call, you'll know

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Speaker 3: who we are, of course, Simon Foxman. Great to see

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Speaker 3: you again, Thanks and great reporting this week. I'm Joe

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Speaker 3: Matthew in New York, where I'm rubbing elbows with people

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Speaker 3: like Simon Foxman. We want to bring in the voice

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Speaker 3: of Denver Riggleman, the former US Congressman from Virginia, former

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Speaker 3: Republican congressman in his view, which always fascinates me, on

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Speaker 3: what's happening here inside the House of Representatives. He's co

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Speaker 3: author of the breach, the untold story of the investigation

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Speaker 3: into January sixth, of course, an investigation and a committee

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Speaker 3: that he was deeply involved in. Denver, It's great to

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Speaker 3: see you. Welcome back to Bloomberg sound On. Should George

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Speaker 3: Santos have been fired today?

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Speaker 9: Sure? I mean listen, yeah, of course. I mean it's

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Speaker 9: good that some Republicans came on. I know that leadership

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Speaker 9: did sort of support him not being you know, summarily

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Speaker 9: drummed out of Congress. But if I was there, I

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Speaker 9: would have voted to get him out of there as

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Speaker 9: quickly as possible. I mean, this is a liar, a grifter,

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Speaker 9: somebody who's you know, mismanaged money, but really somebody who

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Speaker 9: has no place actually representing the American people. So I

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Speaker 9: think today was a great vote.

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Speaker 3: So what do you make of the leadership on this?

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Speaker 3: It was across the board Speaker Johnson, Steve's goalie, majority leader,

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Speaker 3: even Elista Phonic voted to keep him in his seat.

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Speaker 3: Was that a statement on due process the fact that

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Speaker 3: he was not convicted of a crime, or was that

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Speaker 3: a Republican leadership trying to keep as many seats in

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Speaker 3: play as possible.

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Speaker 9: That's just trying to keep seats in play. This is

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Speaker 9: a it's a one in zero's calculation. And also you

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Speaker 9: have individuals who are supporting somebody like the party leader

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Speaker 9: and the presumptive nominee, Donald Trump, who really has a

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Speaker 9: problem with the truth. Also, who's under what ninety one

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Speaker 9: counts now, you know, for specific types of charges based

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Speaker 9: on a multitude you know, offenses. So I think you

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Speaker 9: just have a Republican party and you know, me being

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Speaker 9: a part of it. It's sad to say, but it

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Speaker 9: seems like more than a majority. Even if you look

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Speaker 9: at the January sixth vote to object to the electors

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Speaker 9: more than the majority, or more worried about their own job,

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Speaker 9: or supporting the party leader, or actually voting in a

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Speaker 9: way that might protect their own self interest going forward,

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Speaker 9: rather than what's best for the American people. And I

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Speaker 9: think it's an indictment on where they're at with their integrity,

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Speaker 9: their morality, and actually they think most of us are stupid.

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Speaker 9: And I think many many people are looking at George

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Speaker 9: Santos and saying, this guy is such a sleeves ball,

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Speaker 9: such an underperformer in the American dream, and such an

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Speaker 9: individual that nobody wants a round, that he needs to

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Speaker 9: be out of there. But these guys, they would rather

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Speaker 9: vote for somebody so they can keep that some majority

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Speaker 9: going forward.

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Speaker 3: Boy, well, that's quite an answer. I'm really that's why

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Speaker 3: we called you. I'm just taken by you know how

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Speaker 3: hard it is to be elected to Congress. You know

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Speaker 3: how hard it is to join the Republican conference in

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Speaker 3: the House. How does something like this happen to begin with?

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Speaker 9: I think it's a slow to scent into madness. I mean,

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Speaker 9: if you look at my guess is when they're looking

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Speaker 9: at polling and fundraising, right, they're looking at polling in

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Speaker 9: their districts. You're looking at fundraising in their districts. They're

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Speaker 9: looking at all the cross tabs, all the things that

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Speaker 9: the people are worried about in their base and their districts.

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Speaker 9: They are much more worried about being elected than what's

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Speaker 9: and then doing what's right. And I think I had

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Speaker 9: to grapple with that, Joe, like I had to grapple

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Speaker 9: with that, like taking a vote for the conference, which

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Speaker 9: you know might be at the best not a great vote,

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Speaker 9: or saying, hey, do I have to listen to my

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Speaker 9: base on this when I think that they've gone nuts,

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Speaker 9: when they actually think the election is stolen or they

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Speaker 9: believe that there's a cupal of you know, globalists that

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Speaker 9: are actually harvesting children in basements. I mean, do I

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Speaker 9: really want to go along with this? And they said yes.

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Speaker 9: So I think the GOP is going down where they're

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Speaker 9: a fantasy based party. And once that happens, it's very

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Speaker 9: difficult to have any real policy discussions. And I think

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Speaker 9: that's why you're saying Congress being so ineffective, is that

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Speaker 9: you know, you have a lot of people in Congress

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Speaker 9: now that think the Word of the Rings is a documentary. Uh,

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Speaker 9: And I think that's that's going to be a problem

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Speaker 9: going forward.

438
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 3: Well, look to that end, George Santos says he's going

439
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 3: to take as many folks with him as he can.

440
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 3: That he's surrounded by other members of Congress who have

441
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 3: done things that he knows about that could get them fired.

442
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 3: Just talk about, you know, setting precedents here. Is this

443
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 3: going to be the new weapon? Everybody's going to get

444
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 3: an expulsion vote when they make somebody angry?

445
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 9: No, I, I you know that's a good question, actually,

446
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 9: But as far as George Santos is concerned, I don't

447
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 9: think that all. I don't think Georg George Santo has

448
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 9: anybody else that he can actually bring down. He's not

449
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 9: going to have receipts. The guy's an inveterate liar, he's pathological.

450
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 9: He doesn't even know who he is. He's a con man.

451
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 9: So who cares what he says? Right, it's like a

452
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 9: you know, my grandfather said it best. You know, it's

453
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 9: like a it's like a fart blown in the wind. Right,

454
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 9: That's what George Santos is. So anybody who's taken this

455
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 9: guy seriously really has an issue. Don't take him seriously.

456
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 9: He's an idiot, and I think people need to start

457
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 9: realizing that it's okay to call an and Edie.

458
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 3: We're going to find out how Denver Riggleman really feels

459
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 3: at some point here, I mean, coming off the poop

460
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 3: map last night in the debate. Then I don't know

461
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 3: how to keep up with you on this, but I

462
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 3: understand where you going here. What is Speaker Johnson with

463
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 3: everything that you just said, have to look forward to

464
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 3: in the new year because we're talking about another cr

465
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 3: potentially now, if not a government shut down, is that

466
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 3: the one that gets him fired? Will he joined Kevin

467
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 3: McCarthy in the cafeteria.

468
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 9: My head here, in my head, there could be a

469
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 9: far right revolt. I mean, listen, crazy is very hard

470
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 9: to negotiate with. And I've always said, you know, crazy

471
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 9: has more energy than sanity, and you know Mike doesn't

472
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 9: actually based on what he's done in the past and

473
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 9: what's coming out about Mike Johnson, I know him. I

474
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 9: met Mike. He's a nice guy to talk to in person,

475
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 9: but he's also like to flirt with the insanity of

476
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 9: the far right. And if he doesn't go down that

477
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 9: line after the promises that he's made or what he's

478
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 9: identified himself to be crazy again. It's hard to negotiate

479
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 9: with and there's a lot of energy there. It's white hot.

480
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 9: Insanity does not have as much energy as crazy. So

481
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 9: he better buck up because what I think is going

482
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 9: to happen, you know, is that the far right individuals

483
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 9: that are trying to satisfy their base, they're going to

484
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 9: have to scream and yell at him for a while,

485
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 9: and he's going to have to manage that.

486
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 3: We heard yesterday though that the Freedom Caucus, Andy Biggs

487
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 3: and Scott Perry are pulling back on demands for steep

488
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 3: discretionary spending cuts. It looks like we're going to have

489
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 3: the same top line number if they ever do get

490
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 3: a budget that was hammered out in the debt ceiling

491
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 3: deal that led to Kevin McCarthy's firing. What must be

492
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 3: going through his.

493
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: Head right now?

494
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 9: Well, I mean, you know, McCarthy, listen, you negotiate with

495
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 9: terrorists that aren't that bright, that's what you get. And

496
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 9: I think that when I talk about political terrorists, my

497
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 9: friend and I think the Yeah. So I think the

498
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 9: other side of that is that hypocrisy, you know, is

499
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 9: the number one thing in politics, and integrity and being

500
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 9: elected are sometimes morally are mutually exclusive. And really those

501
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 9: are phone call from Donald Trump. That's just Biggs and

502
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 9: Scott Perry trying to keep Trump happy, making sure they're

503
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 9: in lockstep going through twenty four. I mean, they're not

504
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 9: doing that in the vacuum. So that's really what I

505
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 9: think that is, is that's a political calculation because really,

506
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 9: you know, they're crazy, but they're not crazy enough not

507
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 9: to get paid and not to get elected and not

508
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 9: to be in Trump's quiver.

509
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know how we get a border security

510
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 3: agreement here. I know they're working on one. Considering the

511
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: environment that we're in and the Congress that you're describing,

512
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 3: should I just stop asking people about funding for Israel

513
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 3: and Ukraine because the clock's tick and we're getting nowhere

514
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: on this.

515
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: It seems like.

516
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 9: We are getting nowhere on this, And I think again

517
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 9: to go to the fundamental I think, goodness, that's pretty

518
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 9: a strong word, but I've used some strong words, but

519
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 9: I think I think it goes down to really the

520
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 9: fundamental problem in Congress that it's ineffective because nobody's actually

521
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 9: making decisions for the American people or what's best in

522
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 9: foreign policy, and you have individuals who you know, barely

523
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 9: graduate high school or can't tell the difference, you know,

524
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 9: between a conspiracy theory right in a cafeteria. I mean,

525
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 9: that's the truth of it, that you have those kind

526
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 9: of people making decisions. I think that's what scares me

527
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 9: and scares a lot of the American people, is that

528
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 9: the baseline is crazy. If that's the baseline, it's going

529
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 9: to be difficult to do things like fund Israel or Ukraine,

530
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 9: or to even have a reasonable debate about it.

531
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 3: Wow, well, okay, in that world, then you project a

532
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 3: year out, Democrats take the House, I do.

533
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 9: I think the Democrats take twenty to thirty seats. I think,

534
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 9: I really do. And by the way, I think it's

535
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 9: gonna be one of the craziest years we've ever seen

536
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 9: twenty twenty four. I think there's going to be violence.

537
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 9: But I also believe that the Democrats could take the

538
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 9: House and Trump could win the presidency at the same time.

539
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 9: So that's that's where I think that is a real possibility.

540
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 3: Political violence.

541
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, I think by spring of twenty twenty four

542
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 9: and no, and people forget about Pelosi. I think Paul Pelosi.

543
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 9: They forget about individuals stinking in the homes. I believe it,

544
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 9: think so right. I think those types of you know,

545
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 9: isolated incidences, we think that are isolated. I think they

546
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 9: could become more common place. And that scares me because

547
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 9: people think this is a battle against good and evil.

548
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 9: If you have people who believe this is an apocalyptic battle,

549
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 9: I think that's going to be a problem.

550
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 3: Glad you could join us today. Former Congressman Denver Riggleman,

551
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 3: the Republican from Virginia, free to speak, and boy he

552
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: uses the opportunity. It's good to speak with you. Story

553
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 3: as we head into a weekend with more madness in

554
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 3: the house, George Santos is fired and we don't know

555
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 3: where we're going next. Only here on sound on This

556
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 3: is Bloomberg.

557
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

558
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one eastern.

559
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg

560
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcast.

561
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 4: On this vote, the ya's are three hundred eleven, the

562
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 4: nays are one hundred and fourteen, with two recorded as present.

563
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 4: Two thirds voting in the affirmative. The resolution is adopted,

564
00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 4: an emotion to reconsider is laid upon the table. The

565
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 4: Clerk will notify the Governor of the State of New

566
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 4: York of the action of the House under Clause five

567
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 4: D of Rule twenty. The Chair announces to the House that,

568
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 4: in light of the expulsion of the gentleman from New York,

569
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 4: mister Santos, the whole number of the House is now

570
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 4: four hundred and thirty four.

571
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 3: Four hundred thirty four, right back where we were two

572
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 3: weeks ago. George Santos packing his bags now. And look,

573
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 3: the Republican leadership did not vote to expel George Santos,

574
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 3: and a number of Republican members took that same position,

575
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 3: including the Congressman from Michigan, who we're going to talk

576
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 3: with right now. Bill Heizenga, released the following statement after

577
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 3: voting against the expulsion resolution. The top line says it

578
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 3: all quote. The accusations against mister Santos are very serious

579
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 3: and credible. While I find his behavior appalling, the Congressman

580
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: rights every American deserves their day in court. Congressman Bill Hayzenga, welcome.

581
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: Glad you could join us today, Sir, what precedent was

582
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 3: just set.

583
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 10: Yeah, Joe, thanks for having me, and I think a

584
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 10: bad precedent. Frankly, as I had indicated in my release,

585
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 10: you know, we have not in the modern era ever

586
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 10: expelled anybody who has not been convicted of a crime,

587
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 10: not accused, not even having a really strong trail. And

588
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 10: let's be clear, I don't think George Santos is, let

589
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 10: me be charitable, a high quality individual. All right, Let's

590
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 10: let's leave it at that. But at the end of

591
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 10: the day, I'm afraid that this is a slippery slope

592
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 10: to the further and deepening politicization and and and weaponization

593
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 10: of the processes that we've seen here in Washington, d C.

594
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 10: And so look, we know if you look at individuals

595
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 10: like Charlie Wrangell and others who have had serious serious

596
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 10: issues including being I mean tax fraud and Charlie wrangles circumstances,

597
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 10: they were not removed from office. I believe it is

598
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 10: only when the courts had ruled that is when the

599
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 10: House should take actions. Otherwise it's up to the voters

600
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 10: in each of those districts.

601
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 3: Well, of course, these allegations were wild. When the Ethics

602
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 3: Committee report came out it felt like more than allegations,

603
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 3: which I know made a number of members feel like

604
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 3: they had no choice. The last line of your statement

605
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 3: is when we should read as well as congressmen, you write,

606
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 3: in America, even dirt bags deserve due process. The House

607
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 3: could have trouble with dirt bags in office. Congressman, do

608
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 3: you also empathize with the members who wanted them gone?

609
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 10: Yeah, I certainly do, and I understand it. I promised

610
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 10: one of my Ethics Committee friends that I would read

611
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 10: through the entire report, which I did last night, made notes,

612
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 10: made notations in the report. I think it's very credible

613
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 10: with what they have accused him of and the evidence

614
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 10: that they have and that they're presenting. But also they're

615
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 10: very clear that there's FBI involvement, there's a Department of Justice,

616
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 10: and all of this has to be turned over to

617
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 10: the Attorney General as well. And as distasteful as he is,

618
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 10: and the actions, as distasteful as they are and very

619
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 10: possibly potentially illegal, that that that needs to rise to

620
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 10: such a level. I mean, this is the most serious

621
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 10: thing we can do in the House of Representatives, because

622
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 10: we have just taken three quarters of a million people's

623
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 10: voice off the voting board. You know, they no longer

624
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 10: have their voice being heard in Congress, and that is

625
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 10: a very very serious thing. And I understand. I've had

626
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 10: extensive conversations with my with my very good friends from

627
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 10: from New York and Long Island and in that area

628
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 10: that are having to live with him in that space

629
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 10: and in the media and all those things. But I

630
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 10: also know that there has been a deepening of the

631
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 10: weaponization of the processes and the policies of government over

632
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 10: the last few years. And frankly, I think expulsion and

633
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 10: impeachment have become sort of the new censure. It used

634
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 10: to be in the day in fact that was here

635
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 10: and when Charlie Rangel was centered, it was serious. I mean,

636
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 10: it was somber, it was it was really heartfelt, And

637
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 10: now it just seems like this has become far more commonplace.

638
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 10: And frankly, I for once, I'd like to have a

639
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 10: boring week in Washington where we actually legislated. That would

640
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 10: be helpful. We haven't been doing a whole lot of

641
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 10: that lately, and it's all been more personal and vendettas

642
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 10: and pinched fingers and massive egos, it seems. And we

643
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 10: got to get back to serving the American people.

644
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 3: I have been asking Congressman, if this leads to a

645
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 3: new era of expulsion votes, that's going to be to

646
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 3: your point, that's going to be the new weapon. Every

647
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 3: time somebody says something that someone doesn't like, we go

648
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 3: through the expulsion vote, watering things down. You could argue

649
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: the way impeachment has been watered down. But it's important

650
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 3: to note you're down to four hundred and thirty four members. Again,

651
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 3: you've got a very slim margin as a Republican majority,

652
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 3: and you testified before the Budget Committee recently in support

653
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 3: of your Fiscal Commission Act save Social Security from a

654
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 3: massive cut in the next decade. How do you get

655
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 3: anything like that done on a serious level when it

656
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 3: comes to policy and spending with such a thin majority.

657
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, here's the real truth of the matter is

658
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 10: something like that is not going to happen on a

659
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 10: partisan vote line. That has to be bipartisan. It has

660
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 10: to be by Cameron, meaning both the House and the

661
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 10: Senate have to agree on a direction. And that's why

662
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 10: I'm actually very very encouraged by what happened earlier this

663
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 10: week with our hearing in the Budget Committee, my bill,

664
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 10: and I'm paired up with Scott Peters, a Democrat from California.

665
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 10: We chair something called the BFF, the Bipartisan Fiscal Forum,

666
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 10: and we're very focused in on our debt and our

667
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 10: spending and the deficits that have been created. There was

668
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 10: another bill that had been introduced by Ed Case, a

669
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 10: Democrat out of Hawaii, and Steve Womack, who is a

670
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 10: Congressman out of Arkansas. That bill was discussed as well,

671
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 10: but it was really more broad themed than that. And

672
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 10: then after us, the next panel that came in was

673
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 10: Mitt Romney and Joe Manchin, and they have introduced language

674
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 10: in the Senate that's modeled on the bill that Scott

675
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 10: and I introduced, and we've been working very closely with them.

676
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 10: And here's what I do know, in a hyperpartisan moment

677
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 10: era right now, this is going to be maybe even

678
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 10: harder than what it had been back in the eighties

679
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 10: when Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill and others were working

680
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 10: on these issues. I also know that with our debt

681
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 10: thirty three point eight trillion dollars with a T, and

682
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 10: the interest on that debt now outstripping what we are

683
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 10: spending on every program that deals with women and children,

684
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 10: almost eclipsing every dollar that we spend on the Defense department.

685
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 10: It is crowding out that interest payment is crowding out

686
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 10: our other priorities. And that's what I'm hoping is going

687
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,479
Speaker 10: to allow Republicans and Democrats to get together and say,

688
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 10: you know what, enough is enough. We've got to figure

689
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 10: out how we save this system. Because this isn't a

690
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 10: Republican saying this or a Democrat saying this. This is

691
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 10: the trustees of those of the Trust Fund for Social

692
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 10: Security that says in nine years, if we do not

693
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 10: have a solution to this, there will be an automatic

694
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 10: twenty three percent cut to every single payment. And guess what,

695
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 10: I might be okay, you might be okay when in

696
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 10: our later years. I turned fifty five next month, I

697
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 10: got a little bit of runway here. But guess what,

698
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 10: I went to high school with people that.

699
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 3: There're still a young man, congressman, and you're grabbing the

700
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 3: third rail. I appreciate your coming on to talk to

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00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 3: us about it, including your vote today. Bill Heisenga. I'm

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00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 3: Joe Matthew, This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to the

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00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 3: Sound on podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't

704
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 3: already at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts,

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00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 3: and you can find us live every weekday from Washington,

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00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 3: DC at one pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com