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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Robert Marglev is one of the most quietly consequential

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Speaker 1: figures in modern music, a sonic architect who helped build

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Speaker 1: some of the most innovative and enduring sounds of the

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Speaker 1: last half century. Together with his partner Malcolm Cecil, Robert

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Speaker 1: created Tanto, the world's largest analog synthesizer, and used it

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Speaker 1: to co produce a string of air defining Stevie Wonder classics,

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Speaker 1: including Music of My Mind, Talking Book, Innervisions, and Fulfilling

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Speaker 1: This his first finale. He went on to work with

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Speaker 1: Jeff Beck the Isisley Brothers in a scrappy art punk

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Speaker 1: band from Akron, Ohio called Devo, helping shape the early

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Speaker 1: sound and is something that felt like it arrived from

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Speaker 1: another dimension entirely. You might remember Robert from his Broken

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Speaker 1: Record and Review a few years back. Now he's releasing

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Speaker 1: an audio book called Shaping Sounds Stevie Wonder, Divo the

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Speaker 1: Synth Revolution in My Life Behind the Music. It's a

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Speaker 1: memoir about creativity, collaboration, an artistic courage, told by someone

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Speaker 1: who was in the room. On today's episode, I sit

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Speaker 1: down with Margolev and Mark Mother's ba, the frontman of

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Speaker 1: Devo composer, visual artist and one of the most original

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Speaker 1: creative minds of his generation. They recall working together to

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Speaker 1: make Devot's Freedom of Choice in the glory days of

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Speaker 1: recording at the record plant in Los Angeles in the eighties.

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Speaker 1: You can use the code sounds twenty five at pushing

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Speaker 1: DOFM slash shaping sounds to save twenty five percent on

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Speaker 1: the audiobook. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations.

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Speaker 1: Here's my conversation with Robert Margolev and Mark Mother's ba.

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Speaker 2: We were one step ahead of the digital sampling where

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Speaker 2: you could like do something like that and then have

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Speaker 2: it on a key and play it later. So that

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Speaker 2: came a few years later.

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Speaker 1: So you guys actually had to crack a Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: had a track the whip.

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Speaker 2: We had to take turns whipping each other. It was awful.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: The thing is said, really are worthwhile stick out and

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Speaker 3: when you think about freedom of choice in general, that

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Speaker 3: record really has lasted.

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Speaker 1: This is Mark Studio. We're in Mark Mothersbaugh Studio and

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Speaker 1: you guys obviously have a history which we're here to

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Speaker 1: talk about.

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Speaker 3: We have a very long history.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't know you had a history with this

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Speaker 1: building that oh yes, Mark works out.

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Speaker 3: It, although I've never actually recorded in this building except

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Speaker 3: with Tonto. Tonto used to live exactly where Mark is

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Speaker 3: sitting right now. The instrument was here for about two

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Speaker 3: or three years. We didn't get a lot done, but

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Speaker 3: we cameven fiddled around with it more than actually got

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Speaker 3: serious with it here. But I was off on other

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Speaker 3: adventures at that time, and I don't know, Malcolm and

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Speaker 3: I never really sort of put our minds to it

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Speaker 3: as much as we should have and could have. It

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Speaker 3: was a remarkable opportunity that I think, I sort of

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Speaker 3: think we missed out on. That we could have done

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Speaker 3: more here than he did. But I was off making records.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we were off doing things. Yeah I was. I

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Speaker 2: had found out about film and TV scoring and that

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Speaker 2: became my love and so I was deep in that.

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Speaker 2: But it was but Tonto brought a really great energy

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Speaker 2: because also at that time I had the building was

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Speaker 2: fairly new, so like a lot of stuff, like these

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Speaker 2: racks of tapes, they weren't in this room back then.

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Speaker 2: Sokna was kind of had the whole room all to itself,

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Speaker 2: and it was It was pretty amazing because a lot

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Speaker 2: of people came over and saw Tano and they were

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Speaker 2: just like knocked over just to even see it. It

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Speaker 2: was such an amazing piece of art, and and it

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Speaker 2: had great energy. It was it was kind of like,

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Speaker 2: you know, Bob. That was probably Bob when his mind

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Speaker 2: was working. The fact. I don't know if that's true

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Speaker 2: or not, but you were definitely busy in that time

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Speaker 2: period to have created that.

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Speaker 3: Uh, that instrument I think was around Stevie time too.

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Speaker 3: So our work together we really well, we did. We

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Speaker 3: did a freedom of choice before that time, way before that,

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Speaker 3: before before the synthesogy, before y.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, before yeah Tanto was here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, boy, that was something else. I love making that record.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I have a lot of really good memories

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. That's probably, in a lot of ways, probably the

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Speaker 2: best Divo record. Uh and definitely sonically it was. Uh,

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Speaker 2: Divo learned a lot from you.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: We when we started off, we just had like a

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Speaker 2: little tax four track and and I was like recording, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'll put all the drums on one track based on

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Speaker 2: one guitar. One. Then I got to mix it all

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Speaker 2: down and then add a vocal and a solo and

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Speaker 2: that and that that would like limit esthetically what you

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Speaker 2: could do back in those days. So so we were

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Speaker 2: used to that world. And then I mean, there's there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of good things. We worked with Brian Eno

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Speaker 2: and Bowie on our first one, but Ino was new

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Speaker 2: to producing and he he in retrospect said, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's I wish I would have known more about how

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Speaker 2: to produce a band, you know, when he worked with us.

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Speaker 2: And then the next one was Ken Scott, and he

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Speaker 2: kind of took our songs apart in a way, in

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Speaker 2: a in an unfortunate way because because they were written

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Speaker 2: to be played live, we wrote them while we were

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Speaker 2: playing in clubs, and then he had us all play

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Speaker 2: one at a time to a click and that it

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Speaker 2: just didn't destroy the record.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which is interesting because I mean he got his

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Speaker 1: start with like those early Beatles records, right, and so

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Speaker 1: you would you would think his his inclination would be

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Speaker 1: to do something live, you know, in the studio.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, maybe he regretted it afterwards. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: We never talked again after that, but uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: it was like Bob came along and he brought so

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Speaker 2: much to what we were doing, and he had the

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Speaker 2: right kind of We had the right kind of chemistry.

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Speaker 2: Bob was a producer who had been you know, not

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Speaker 2: only very successful, but he was always an artist and

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Speaker 2: always you know, a technician, and he was the kind

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Speaker 2: of guy that it was like magical to work with

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Speaker 2: in a way because he had a great person you know,

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Speaker 2: he could work with people. He was empathetic in a

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Speaker 2: way that was really helpful for us because we were

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Speaker 2: like paranoid and negative or were.

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Speaker 3: Come off You'd come off of two albums that really

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Speaker 3: should have been a lot better and to you artistically, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and you knew it, Yeah, and I knew it. My

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Speaker 3: secret was to let you be yourselves and to put

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Speaker 3: you at a place. And I'm looking back, I'm doing

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Speaker 3: some research on perceptive listens now, and I found out

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Speaker 3: that by bringing what I was doing naturally, not only

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Speaker 3: with Mark but with Stevie and most of my artists

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Speaker 3: was to bring them into the control room. And the

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Speaker 3: control room was like a musical instrument that you would habit,

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Speaker 3: and by bringing them into the control room, we didn't

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Speaker 3: have to deal with headphones. With the exception of Alan Myers,

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Speaker 3: the drummer, but he had enough leakage out around his

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Speaker 3: headphones so that he could hear his drums in space

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Speaker 3: as well as what was going on in his head.

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Speaker 3: The entire band was in the control room, and by

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Speaker 3: listening without headphones, they weren't isolated. I headphones tend to

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Speaker 3: isolate people one from the other and separate you from

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Speaker 3: the reality. When we brought the band into Howard Siegel

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Speaker 3: and I brought the band into the control room and

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Speaker 3: ditched the headphones. It's one of the main reasons that

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Speaker 3: they were really able to play together.

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Speaker 2: I'd say that's true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I know from speaking to you on the

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Speaker 1: show previously, you were thinking of freedom of choice. Freedom

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Speaker 1: of Choice as DeVos Funk album.

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Speaker 2: Well, that that was our concept when we went into it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you have to understand we were

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Speaker 2: pretty far out there if you look at the way

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Speaker 2: we dressed, in the way the kind of songs we

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Speaker 2: were writing, and we were a conceptual band. You know,

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Speaker 2: we were about ideas first. And you know, we weren't

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Speaker 2: writing like about sex and drugs and rock and roll

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Speaker 2: so much. You know, it wasn't we didn't have any

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Speaker 2: lyrics at where I'm snorting whiskey and drinking cocaine think

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go insane, and you know, it's like

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Speaker 2: we were kind of anti all that. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it just Bob sunk up with with that really well.

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Speaker 2: But we were, yeah, we were thinking, how can we

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Speaker 2: make our stuff sound more funky? And we were you know,

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Speaker 2: like looking around at who did what and where things

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Speaker 2: came from. And when we found out about Bob and

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Speaker 2: saw well he'd worked with Stevie, which was like, couldn't

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Speaker 2: be any better than that, But he was also this

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Speaker 2: genius who created this this instrument that was one of

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Speaker 2: a kind and had an imprint on pop music at

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Speaker 2: the time. You know, it influenced people even more than

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Speaker 2: it actually got to be on the records. It's everybody

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Speaker 2: knew about it and everybody and you saw the picture

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Speaker 2: of it. It was like an incredible piece of sculpture.

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Speaker 2: You know. We sought him out and he was interested,

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Speaker 2: lucky for us.

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Speaker 1: The dichotomy of that, even still in hindsight all these

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Speaker 1: years later, still fascinating to me that you have a

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Speaker 1: machine as seemingly, at least to me, experimental as Tonto

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Speaker 1: and avant garde as Tonto, and an artist as pop

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Speaker 1: as Stevie. You know, or as you know, coming from Motown,

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Speaker 1: which is very slick and polished. I mean, I love

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Speaker 1: all the Motown stuff, but there's definitely many years there

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Speaker 1: was a singular Motown sound, you know. Barry Gordy did

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Speaker 1: refer to it as a factory, you know, and so

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Speaker 1: a formula It was formulaic, but not in a very

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Speaker 1: cool way. But then for Stevie to come out of

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Speaker 1: that and then to get paired with this sort of

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Speaker 1: avant guard machine that you created, you and Malcolm Cecil,

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Speaker 1: is its fascinating still.

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Speaker 3: You know. I never I never thought it would end.

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Speaker 3: We were really in its own space, that's for sure.

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Speaker 3: In working with Mark, I really did want to pay

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Speaker 3: attention to the R and B bottom end, which is

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Speaker 3: I paid strict attention to that in that recording that

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Speaker 3: we did. Freedom of choice to us to pay strict

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Speaker 3: attention to the bottom end of the record. Being able

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Speaker 3: to work in the control room inside and habit the

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Speaker 3: musical instrument itself, because a lot of the sounds we

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Speaker 3: made weren't sounds until they fell out of the loud

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Speaker 3: speaker one way or another. That the control room itself

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Speaker 3: we were in howbiting a musical instrument and I viewed

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Speaker 3: it like that. But the other thing that was really

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Speaker 3: important to me, where I've really had my success in

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Speaker 3: music was because of the political overtones that Diva was

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Speaker 3: writing about was something that I really got. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I was ahead of the curve nineteen fifty eight. You know,

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Speaker 3: I remember Medgar Evers, I remember Martin Luther King, I

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Speaker 3: remember John Lewis, I remember the Norman Pettis Bridge. I

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Speaker 3: remember little black girls being escorted to school by white

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Speaker 3: marshalls with guns. So when I came out of high school,

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Speaker 3: I was already the school I went to was really

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Speaker 3: sort of based around the awareness of civil rights. So

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Speaker 3: the things that really attracted me at music were things

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Speaker 3: that had something to do with civil rights and with

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Speaker 3: the productive, with the sociological effects of civilization on itself,

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Speaker 3: how it ways our civilization is eating itself. We're consuming

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Speaker 3: our own our own rubbish in some way right now.

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Speaker 3: But what attracted me to the to Devo also was

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Speaker 3: the content of the lyrics it had. Like Stevie, we

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Speaker 3: were doing things like Living for the City and He's

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Speaker 3: Mister Noodle, which was about Richard Nixon. For example, Mark

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Speaker 3: and Jerry were writing music about the human condition and

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Speaker 3: the prediction of the future, and right now here we

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Speaker 3: are in twenty twenty six, and what we were singing

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Speaker 3: about the boys were doing in the studio in nineteen

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Speaker 3: eighty three or four, whatever it was, they nailed it

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Speaker 3: right on the right, on the head of the thing.

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Speaker 3: I mean there was it was predictive. And we see

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Speaker 3: it today that the predictions, the Devotian predictions are coming true.

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Speaker 3: How do we how do we stop it? How do

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Speaker 3: we change the world again? Can we change it through music?

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Speaker 2: I wonder, you know what, when I was twenty nineteen seventy,

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Speaker 2: I remember thinking, Ah, I wish I was born in

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Speaker 2: the nineteen twentiest, you know, I wish I could have

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Speaker 2: been in Europe during that incredible period of art where

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Speaker 2: they were Bajas and Surrealism and Dadaism and Futurism and

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Speaker 2: all those art movements were happening. I said, I wish

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Speaker 2: I would have been around for that. I missed out

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Speaker 2: on that. But that was a really dark period that

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Speaker 2: was between World War One and World War two, and

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Speaker 2: fascism was on the rise. And I feel like when

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Speaker 2: DeVos started in the seventies, it was kind of like

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Speaker 2: it had come back again, and it created things like

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Speaker 2: punk and new wave and electronica music and a lot

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Speaker 2: of things. It inspired artists, just like fascism inspired artists

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Speaker 2: in the twenties thirties. I think what happened in the

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Speaker 2: seventies was because Jerry and I were at a school

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Speaker 2: where we were protesting the war in Vietnam and they

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Speaker 2: just said, okay, just shoot them, and they shot like

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Speaker 2: thirty some kids and killed four of them. And they

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Speaker 2: did that at other places around the country and it

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Speaker 2: shut everybody down. It's like after that, music turned into

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Speaker 2: like this like corporate white rock, where it was like

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Speaker 2: it was basically, I'm white, I'm a misogynist, I'm proud

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Speaker 2: of it, I'm a conspicuous consumer, you know. And that

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Speaker 2: was like the politics of music that or it was disco,

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Speaker 2: which was like had beautiful sounds, but like the lyrics

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Speaker 2: were all stupid. And Jerry used to go, oh, it's

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Speaker 2: like a woman with no brain is how we felt

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Speaker 2: about disco because it didn't have a political message to it.

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Speaker 2: It was like everything was during the period that punk

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Speaker 2: and new way was starting. It was like that and

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm an old guy now, so so

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Speaker 2: like I've been around to see it.

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Speaker 3: Notice that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's been so it's like, well, then keep

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Speaker 2: your prescription that whatever you're wearing just yet. But but

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Speaker 2: you know, I feel like it's on another It's like

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Speaker 2: I used to just we used to just talk about

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Speaker 2: de evolution and things going down. But the reality is is,

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Speaker 2: I think de evolution and evolution both exist and they're

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Speaker 2: in constant crisis with each other and conflict. And I

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Speaker 2: think this time period is going to expec going to

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Speaker 2: create young artists that are that are going to take

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Speaker 2: take things from what's going on right now in the world.

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Speaker 2: They're going to be inspired by that, and they're going

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Speaker 2: to take the new technology. You know, it's like everybody's

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Speaker 2: oh Ai AI's evil, but it's also like technology was

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Speaker 2: back in the seventies. It was like you could use

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Speaker 2: it for good or bad. And I think what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen is I think technology and what's happening now

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Speaker 2: in the world is going to inspire young artists to

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Speaker 2: do artwork that you and I are going to go, dang,

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Speaker 2: why didn't I think of that? That's amazing. We're going

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Speaker 2: to hear stuff from kids. I think it now is

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Speaker 2: like a really amazing time to be a young artist.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, you know, just talking quickly about AI,

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Speaker 3: you know the WGA for example, the writer's skills that

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Speaker 3: God forbid you should have at AAI and your dialogue

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Speaker 3: and your script and you're writing your manuscript, and there's

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Speaker 3: a tremendous amount of fear of people sticking their heads

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Speaker 3: in the sand and trying to deny its existence. We

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Speaker 3: have to really understand that AI is here, it's not

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Speaker 3: going away, and if we're going to use it creatively,

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Speaker 3: that's a good thing. But we have to learn how

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Speaker 3: to use it and understand it. You know, a lot

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Speaker 3: of stuff. What I'm hearing now musically is like AI

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Speaker 3: slop is what I call it.

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Speaker 1: Even if it's not.

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Speaker 3: It's mindless.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, but there are people who are.

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Speaker 3: Using it creatively in ways that it would not have

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Speaker 3: even dawned on me. And I celebrate that. I I

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Speaker 3: think that that's a good thing. I think we got

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Speaker 3: to take our head out of the sand, understand that

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Speaker 3: it's here. I mean, AI does good things in medicine.

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Speaker 3: AI does good things in research. It helps me write

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Speaker 3: when I'm doing research and I need to know something,

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Speaker 3: I have a I have my copilot there. It gives

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Speaker 3: gives me information, it educates me. But I think we're

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Speaker 3: also you know, the problem with AI and music is,

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Speaker 3: you know somebody who wrote one song a month maybe

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Speaker 3: or one song every six weeks and sweat it over

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Speaker 3: the lyrics and really, you know, did something that was

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Speaker 3: heartfelt and poetic. That same guy sitting in his kitchen

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Speaker 3: table at the laptop with the headphones on and writing

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Speaker 3: five hundred songs in a month and then putting him

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Speaker 3: up online and then you know, polluting the atmosphere with

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Speaker 3: what I call AI slop, you know, and there's tons

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Speaker 3: of it. How do you sort the good, the wheat

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Speaker 3: from the chaff after all of that. The other problem

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Speaker 3: is that it totally lacks roboto and feel. I mean,

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Speaker 3: when you think about it, If you think about it,

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Speaker 3: a great conductor coming out on the stage and a

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Speaker 3: guy comes out dressed like a penguin with a stick

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Speaker 3: and starts waving it around, and suddenly an entire orchestra

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Speaker 3: is performing as one instrument. He's deciding where the music

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Speaker 3: speeds up, where the music slows down, which is called roboto,

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Speaker 3: or where it gets louder and where it gets softer.

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Speaker 3: And you begin to realize that that whole orchestra's focused

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Speaker 3: on the end of the stick that he's waving around,

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Speaker 3: and that his whole emotion is being transmitted to the orchestra,

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Speaker 3: and they're playing with tremendous empathy. And that's what we

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Speaker 3: connect with. Whether it's that or it's Taylor Swift in

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Speaker 3: front of a huge audience or a devo in front

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Speaker 3: of two thousand or five thousand people, it's that exchange.

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Speaker 3: It's that vibe that we need to have. That is

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Speaker 3: the current of sound that we inhabit. I think that

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Speaker 3: that really what's going circling way back. But I think that,

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Speaker 3: in a way, was what really made that record successful

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Speaker 3: was the effect that was played as one instrument. It

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Speaker 3: was five people playing together as one instrument, everyone playing

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Speaker 3: their place on the keyboard, so to speak.

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Speaker 2: You know, Bob, I totally agree with you, especially about

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Speaker 2: the orchestra, because I score movies and I score a

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Speaker 2: lot of animation, and animation no matter how great it looks,

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Speaker 2: it's like if they show a picture of a field,

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Speaker 2: there's millions of things happening out in that field, like

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Speaker 2: little insects you can't see, but you and the wind

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Speaker 2: blowing and leaves growing. If I just write, you know,

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Speaker 2: when I write the music, and it's just on my

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Speaker 2: sense and using my libraries of like orchestral sounds, and

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Speaker 2: it's a real orchestra going rare. If you hear the

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Speaker 2: same chord over and over again, everybody, even people that aren't,

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Speaker 2: you know, very sophisticated musically, they all can say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's that's electronics. That's that's not real people. Whereas when

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Speaker 2: people come into a room, like whether I'm at Abbey

356
00:20:34,636 --> 00:20:38,236
Speaker 2: Road or if I'm in Sony Studios or Fox or wherever,

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Speaker 2: these people are coming off the streets and if it

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Speaker 2: was raining outside, they're taking off raincoats and setting them

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Speaker 2: beside them, and they're setting down their newspapers and their bags,

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Speaker 2: and they play and it's like you never know exactly

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Speaker 2: what it's going to sound like, because they've all got

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Speaker 2: blood going through their veins, they're breathing, they're they're either

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Speaker 2: bowing up or down, or they're blowing at different rates

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Speaker 2: and things, so it's never the exact same and it's different,

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Speaker 2: and it makes the anime looks so much better now

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Speaker 2: to me. That's why I don't worry about AI because

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Speaker 2: I remember when technology invented electronic drums and synth sounds,

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Speaker 2: and we loved all that stuff. But there were people

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Speaker 2: that were going to the mall and they would buy

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Speaker 2: a portable home Morgan, and they'd hit a button and

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Speaker 2: we'd go boom di de boom di di boom, and

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Speaker 2: they'd be go, oh, look, and then they'd hit a

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Speaker 2: baseline a boom boom, boom boom, and then they'd play

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Speaker 2: something over top of it, and they go, look at this,

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Speaker 2: I just made up a song, you know, And then

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Speaker 2: they go, let's make another one up tomorrow, you know.

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Speaker 2: And so I feel like you and I already went

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Speaker 2: through that, and we saw that, and we were taking

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Speaker 2: that same equipment and we were looking for artistic ways

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Speaker 2: to use it.

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Speaker 3: I wonder what hop music is going to sound like

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Speaker 3: in twenty years. I mean, we're as far away from

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Speaker 3: Glenn Miller and Benny Goodman as you can get. Okay,

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Speaker 3: Somehow music has evolved over the fifty sixty seventy years

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Speaker 3: since Glen Miller, you know, Tommy Dorsey or Bing Crosby.

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Speaker 1: I think even you know, you think, you know, go

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00:22:18,436 --> 00:22:20,916
Speaker 1: back to It's like Louis Armstrong's Hot fives and seven.

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Speaker 1: You think about what just happened, that could.

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Speaker 3: Think, Yeah, the interesting thing that happened though, it's the

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Speaker 3: microphone changed everything. When Bing Crosby could walk out on

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Speaker 3: the stage at Radio City Music Hall with a twenty

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Speaker 3: five piece dance band orchestra of the big horn section

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Speaker 3: and everything else, and they would record it and Bing

394
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Speaker 3: could get to the mic like this and he would

395
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Speaker 3: sing ba ba boo, ba ba boo like that, and

396
00:22:49,116 --> 00:22:52,956
Speaker 3: suddenly that was as loud as the entire orchestra because

397
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Speaker 3: we rearranged the reality right.

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Speaker 1: You didn't have to, and we've been and we've been

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Speaker 1: re arranging.

400
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Speaker 3: That reality ever since, you know. Uh, But that one microphone.

401
00:23:03,276 --> 00:23:06,596
Speaker 3: That's why the girls were all like going crazy for Bing,

402
00:23:06,716 --> 00:23:10,316
Speaker 3: because suddenly Bing was sitting right next to you and

403
00:23:10,836 --> 00:23:12,876
Speaker 3: you could hear his breath and his teeth and his

404
00:23:14,076 --> 00:23:16,956
Speaker 3: all of that stuff. You could. Suddenly it was like

405
00:23:17,436 --> 00:23:21,516
Speaker 3: an emotional connection, and that whole orchestra blowing their brains

406
00:23:21,556 --> 00:23:25,396
Speaker 3: out in the background was big, was louder than they were.

407
00:23:26,196 --> 00:23:29,876
Speaker 3: And suddenly we discovered the ability to rearrange reality with

408
00:23:29,956 --> 00:23:33,796
Speaker 3: a microphone in recording, and what we were doing in

409
00:23:33,836 --> 00:23:36,476
Speaker 3: the studio. By the time we got to DEVO was

410
00:23:36,556 --> 00:23:40,516
Speaker 3: we were rearranging reality and making sounds that never even

411
00:23:40,716 --> 00:23:44,436
Speaker 3: ever existed in the real world at all. And to

412
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Speaker 3: get Mike to get Mark on the microphone this close,

413
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Speaker 3: you know, whip it good to make that as loud

414
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Speaker 3: as the whole orchestra, the whole band that was us

415
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Speaker 3: rearranging reality.

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Speaker 1: DEVO has a very you guys have a DEVO has

417
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Speaker 1: a very unique philosophy in terms of I think your

418
00:24:03,156 --> 00:24:05,596
Speaker 1: view view of the human condition and the way you

419
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Speaker 1: guys presented things, And Robert, I think you also have

420
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Speaker 1: a I'm curious, would you guys consider yourselves technologists or

421
00:24:15,596 --> 00:24:18,916
Speaker 1: humanists or a blend of book because in one way,

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00:24:19,076 --> 00:24:21,756
Speaker 1: you guys are you both took advantage of technology in

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00:24:21,916 --> 00:24:25,076
Speaker 1: very unique ways and in very forward thinking ways. But

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Speaker 1: in other ways, I think of both you also as

425
00:24:26,876 --> 00:24:31,636
Speaker 1: being deeply concerned about the human condition and experiment.

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Speaker 3: I think it's about two things. It's about humanity and empathy.

427
00:24:37,516 --> 00:24:41,316
Speaker 3: It's about the ability to connect your feelings with something

428
00:24:41,356 --> 00:24:43,996
Speaker 3: poetic that means something to people around you that you

429
00:24:44,036 --> 00:24:47,476
Speaker 3: could change the course of their lives by virtue of

430
00:24:47,516 --> 00:24:51,796
Speaker 3: your message. And I think that is about empathy and

431
00:24:51,876 --> 00:24:55,116
Speaker 3: it's about the human condition, and I think that's what

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00:24:55,236 --> 00:24:57,476
Speaker 3: poetry and art is about, really.

433
00:24:57,756 --> 00:25:00,356
Speaker 1: And taking the advantage of technology in pursuit of that

434
00:25:00,436 --> 00:25:00,996
Speaker 1: is Yeah.

435
00:25:01,316 --> 00:25:04,916
Speaker 3: Well, technology to us is a musical instrument. It's no

436
00:25:04,996 --> 00:25:07,636
Speaker 3: different than any other musical instrument in a lot of ways.

437
00:25:08,356 --> 00:25:12,476
Speaker 3: The thing that's different is when Mark plays keyboards or

438
00:25:12,556 --> 00:25:16,716
Speaker 3: synthesizer or keyboards of any kind of massages the medium

439
00:25:17,196 --> 00:25:20,996
Speaker 3: he uses his fingers like this, and the fingers you

440
00:25:21,076 --> 00:25:25,316
Speaker 3: have to have a certain amount of physical dexterity to

441
00:25:25,396 --> 00:25:29,836
Speaker 3: connect your mind to your extremities. Now we're getting to

442
00:25:29,916 --> 00:25:34,436
Speaker 3: a place where we don't need to have physical connection.

443
00:25:35,596 --> 00:25:38,836
Speaker 3: I mean, if you think of Elon and Nouralink, for example,

444
00:25:39,516 --> 00:25:42,876
Speaker 3: Suddenly people are playing video games and we'll start expressing

445
00:25:42,876 --> 00:25:46,596
Speaker 3: themselves purely by thinking exactly. And I think that we're

446
00:25:46,596 --> 00:25:49,196
Speaker 3: beginning to see that starting to happen in a lot

447
00:25:49,196 --> 00:25:52,796
Speaker 3: of ways. Good, it's a bad, I don't know what

448
00:25:52,916 --> 00:25:57,076
Speaker 3: it is, but it's there. We cannot deny the existence

449
00:25:57,116 --> 00:26:01,396
Speaker 3: of the reality of where civilization is going. All we

450
00:26:01,476 --> 00:26:03,636
Speaker 3: can do is hope to do the best we can

451
00:26:04,156 --> 00:26:07,796
Speaker 3: in terms of being a human being, having empathy and

452
00:26:07,876 --> 00:26:11,516
Speaker 3: joy and trying to reach people and touch them in

453
00:26:11,716 --> 00:26:15,716
Speaker 3: some kind of a tender, more than just intellectual way,

454
00:26:15,756 --> 00:26:19,956
Speaker 3: but in some kind of humane embrace.

455
00:26:21,436 --> 00:26:23,636
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you on that. You know, it's

456
00:26:23,716 --> 00:26:27,996
Speaker 2: like I think the real message of Devo more than

457
00:26:28,116 --> 00:26:31,716
Speaker 2: just things are going down, which it was, you know, now,

458
00:26:31,756 --> 00:26:34,516
Speaker 2: I feel like it's it's part of a yin yang

459
00:26:35,236 --> 00:26:40,716
Speaker 2: of reality. Uh. I feel it was more like humans

460
00:26:41,196 --> 00:26:44,476
Speaker 2: were the one species out of touch with nature. And

461
00:26:44,716 --> 00:26:50,156
Speaker 2: what I think is really important is AI whatever you know,

462
00:26:50,356 --> 00:26:53,116
Speaker 2: medium you use to make your music, if it's just

463
00:26:53,236 --> 00:26:57,356
Speaker 2: you know, like like one rubber band that you're strumming

464
00:26:58,436 --> 00:27:04,636
Speaker 2: or anything in between. I think it's about people need

465
00:27:04,636 --> 00:27:11,836
Speaker 2: to learn how to mutate and not just get stagnated

466
00:27:12,036 --> 00:27:14,836
Speaker 2: and just get frozen, like so many people are frozen

467
00:27:14,836 --> 00:27:17,756
Speaker 2: by the thought of AI. And like social media now

468
00:27:18,276 --> 00:27:21,796
Speaker 2: it's like what's left and what's right are like extreme

469
00:27:22,316 --> 00:27:25,716
Speaker 2: they don't even really represent most of the people that

470
00:27:25,916 --> 00:27:29,796
Speaker 2: lean either direction. They're like the extremists and they're just

471
00:27:30,116 --> 00:27:32,836
Speaker 2: shouting at each other and the rest of us are

472
00:27:32,836 --> 00:27:36,396
Speaker 2: all kind of in the middle, and we're all craving

473
00:27:36,516 --> 00:27:37,316
Speaker 2: common sense.

474
00:27:37,596 --> 00:27:41,076
Speaker 3: There's no common sense that the extremes that's the problem

475
00:27:41,156 --> 00:27:42,556
Speaker 3: we have politically as well.

476
00:27:42,756 --> 00:27:45,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so so I just feel like that's part

477
00:27:45,956 --> 00:27:49,436
Speaker 2: of what you know, this this turnover when it when

478
00:27:49,476 --> 00:27:53,796
Speaker 2: it's you know that artists are going to be addressing

479
00:27:53,836 --> 00:27:57,356
Speaker 2: that issue. I feel they'll help lead the way. I think,

480
00:27:57,436 --> 00:27:59,676
Speaker 2: you know, like as it's happened in the past, art

481
00:27:59,916 --> 00:28:05,956
Speaker 2: has has informed people where where politics and you know,

482
00:28:06,236 --> 00:28:11,876
Speaker 2: other mediums. You know, I'm kind of ready for maybe

483
00:28:11,956 --> 00:28:15,476
Speaker 2: it's been a long time, it's been thousands years, but

484
00:28:15,556 --> 00:28:19,836
Speaker 2: maybe white men could just stand over to the side

485
00:28:19,836 --> 00:28:24,556
Speaker 2: a little bit and I'm waiting for women to kind

486
00:28:24,556 --> 00:28:26,836
Speaker 2: of take over the planet. I'm looking for a feminist

487
00:28:26,916 --> 00:28:28,876
Speaker 2: planet that would you know.

488
00:28:29,796 --> 00:28:32,156
Speaker 3: We need some peace and quiet and a hug.

489
00:28:33,356 --> 00:28:37,516
Speaker 2: And we need the part of humanity that's connected to

490
00:28:37,636 --> 00:28:40,876
Speaker 2: nature and that can reconnect. Because I mean, the whole

491
00:28:40,876 --> 00:28:45,036
Speaker 2: idea of like, well we'll just use up everything on

492
00:28:45,076 --> 00:28:47,396
Speaker 2: this planet and then we move to Mars. I'm like, well,

493
00:28:47,436 --> 00:28:51,636
Speaker 2: you better love your your cell phone, because if you

494
00:28:51,676 --> 00:28:54,796
Speaker 2: haven't looked at pictures of Mars, it's very boring there

495
00:28:54,876 --> 00:28:59,396
Speaker 2: and there's not a good reason to want to go there.

496
00:28:59,436 --> 00:29:01,676
Speaker 2: You're going to be in a giant parking lot. We

497
00:29:01,716 --> 00:29:05,996
Speaker 2: need humans to connect more with the natural world.

498
00:29:06,356 --> 00:29:10,076
Speaker 3: The real issue for music now is how to get

499
00:29:10,116 --> 00:29:14,716
Speaker 3: heard distribution. It's not so much the creation as it

500
00:29:14,876 --> 00:29:18,676
Speaker 3: is getting that message out. These guys have been doing

501
00:29:18,716 --> 00:29:22,396
Speaker 3: it for fifty years. They got the formula. People know

502
00:29:22,436 --> 00:29:26,996
Speaker 3: who who Devo is, just like Stevie too. Everyone knows

503
00:29:27,076 --> 00:29:29,836
Speaker 3: who Stevie is. But Stevie, you go out on the

504
00:29:29,916 --> 00:29:33,316
Speaker 3: road and he will play virtually songs that are fifty

505
00:29:33,396 --> 00:29:38,116
Speaker 3: years old, that were his original material, he'll play. He

506
00:29:38,156 --> 00:29:40,356
Speaker 3: can play a whole albusort of the material. The boys go

507
00:29:40,396 --> 00:29:43,596
Speaker 3: out and play stuff off of freedom of choice. Those

508
00:29:43,636 --> 00:29:47,036
Speaker 3: are the old songs. Where are the new songs? Where

509
00:29:47,076 --> 00:29:49,156
Speaker 3: are we going to hear those? How are we going

510
00:29:49,236 --> 00:29:52,316
Speaker 3: to change the culture again? How do we get heard?

511
00:29:52,796 --> 00:29:54,916
Speaker 3: I mean, you go to a record company now and live.

512
00:29:54,996 --> 00:29:58,316
Speaker 3: Guy says, eh, well this is okay, but how many

513
00:29:58,396 --> 00:30:01,556
Speaker 3: clicks do you have? You know, it's not about the

514
00:30:01,676 --> 00:30:05,156
Speaker 3: music anymore. It's about trying to get heard and to

515
00:30:05,276 --> 00:30:09,836
Speaker 3: do something that's meaningful, to touch people emotionally physically.

516
00:30:11,596 --> 00:30:17,996
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this break. I do wonder

517
00:30:18,076 --> 00:30:19,596
Speaker 1: not I mean, I don't want to get too hemmed

518
00:30:19,676 --> 00:30:23,076
Speaker 1: up by a conversation about technology and AI and things

519
00:30:23,116 --> 00:30:26,316
Speaker 1: like this. But to your earlier point about being a

520
00:30:26,316 --> 00:30:30,916
Speaker 1: little optimistic about AI, I think where I get pessimistic

521
00:30:31,436 --> 00:30:35,756
Speaker 1: about it is around the specific point you're making is

522
00:30:35,796 --> 00:30:39,796
Speaker 1: that sometimes it feels like whereas before, back to bing

523
00:30:39,876 --> 00:30:45,116
Speaker 1: crosby example, the invention of certain kinds of microphones allowed

524
00:30:45,476 --> 00:30:49,036
Speaker 1: crooning to become a style of music and become a

525
00:30:49,036 --> 00:30:52,436
Speaker 1: phenomenon amongst, you know, in popular music. All these years later,

526
00:30:52,516 --> 00:30:54,156
Speaker 1: I almost wonder if we've gotten to the point where

527
00:30:54,196 --> 00:30:57,476
Speaker 1: the tail now wags the dog, where music is in

528
00:30:57,516 --> 00:31:00,956
Speaker 1: service of technology more often than technology is in service

529
00:31:01,036 --> 00:31:01,916
Speaker 1: of music.

530
00:31:02,316 --> 00:31:07,396
Speaker 3: I think that technology is our musical instruments. I think

531
00:31:07,596 --> 00:31:11,836
Speaker 3: technology drives to the RT. I've said it a thousand times.

532
00:31:11,876 --> 00:31:16,156
Speaker 3: If I said at once, our technology really does drive

533
00:31:16,276 --> 00:31:19,916
Speaker 3: how we create and what we create and the space

534
00:31:19,956 --> 00:31:23,996
Speaker 3: that we live in. I mean, we're here in Mark's studio,

535
00:31:24,156 --> 00:31:26,796
Speaker 3: which is a glorious space. You guys got to go

536
00:31:26,836 --> 00:31:30,236
Speaker 3: see it upstairs, but it's a marvel of modern technology.

537
00:31:30,556 --> 00:31:32,636
Speaker 3: I think there's certain things that have come down the

538
00:31:32,676 --> 00:31:36,356
Speaker 3: pike in some ways that have been destructive. I think

539
00:31:36,356 --> 00:31:39,836
Speaker 3: that we moved into dance music, for example, and got

540
00:31:40,316 --> 00:31:44,956
Speaker 3: locked into the sequencer and suddenly everything that had backbeat

541
00:31:45,036 --> 00:31:48,396
Speaker 3: and feel she got transmitted to the kick drum and

542
00:31:48,436 --> 00:31:51,996
Speaker 3: the downbeat versus the backbeat. And I think that that

543
00:31:52,156 --> 00:31:56,116
Speaker 3: really sort of changed music a lot, and I think

544
00:31:56,156 --> 00:31:57,956
Speaker 3: not for the better, because it's turned a lot of

545
00:31:58,036 --> 00:32:03,396
Speaker 3: dance music instead of dance music, it's become militant. Four

546
00:32:03,436 --> 00:32:08,716
Speaker 3: on the floor is kind of militancy, and I find that,

547
00:32:08,996 --> 00:32:12,236
Speaker 3: you know, people want to dance to marching music. But

548
00:32:12,636 --> 00:32:15,996
Speaker 3: I think that really makes a real record happen. Like,

549
00:32:16,076 --> 00:32:19,356
Speaker 3: for example, we're in the studio. When we were working together,

550
00:32:20,196 --> 00:32:22,916
Speaker 3: there was a mark. The band had a marvelous drummers

551
00:32:22,996 --> 00:32:25,996
Speaker 3: name was Alan Myers and I'll never forget them. We

552
00:32:26,076 --> 00:32:29,076
Speaker 3: used to call mister TikTok. That guy could really, you know,

553
00:32:29,196 --> 00:32:32,876
Speaker 3: settle the groove. But when he's but when the band

554
00:32:32,996 --> 00:32:35,356
Speaker 3: was going from a verse to a chorus or to

555
00:32:35,436 --> 00:32:38,716
Speaker 3: a transition to another section, he knew when to hold

556
00:32:38,756 --> 00:32:41,396
Speaker 3: it back, he knew when to speed it up. That

557
00:32:41,436 --> 00:32:44,516
Speaker 3: there was a degree of motion and his playing and

558
00:32:44,556 --> 00:32:47,916
Speaker 3: what separates him from the machine is that motion.

559
00:32:48,756 --> 00:32:52,196
Speaker 1: Just to go back a bit, you first saw Devo

560
00:32:53,476 --> 00:32:55,396
Speaker 1: before that, even their first album came out right.

561
00:32:55,756 --> 00:32:58,636
Speaker 3: I saw them at the Starwood. I was up in

562
00:32:58,636 --> 00:33:02,356
Speaker 3: the balcony with all the executives from the record companies.

563
00:33:02,396 --> 00:33:04,596
Speaker 3: That you could tell they were executives from record companies

564
00:33:04,756 --> 00:33:07,436
Speaker 3: because they were all wearing these letter jackets, you know,

565
00:33:08,116 --> 00:33:10,716
Speaker 3: and the thing. And they were all honkering around. Think

566
00:33:11,356 --> 00:33:14,716
Speaker 3: this one's good Disband's good disband, isn't you know. Let's

567
00:33:14,756 --> 00:33:19,236
Speaker 3: go have some more dirves in a little and you know,

568
00:33:19,836 --> 00:33:21,916
Speaker 3: And we'd go to the back room at the Starwood

569
00:33:21,956 --> 00:33:25,156
Speaker 3: and they'd honk around. And I was working as a

570
00:33:25,236 --> 00:33:28,556
Speaker 3: chief engineer of the record plant at the time, consulting

571
00:33:28,676 --> 00:33:33,476
Speaker 3: chief engineer. I was more or less a sonic matre d.

572
00:33:33,876 --> 00:33:38,236
Speaker 3: I was taking in what bands. Big bands came into

573
00:33:38,276 --> 00:33:40,316
Speaker 3: the record plant, I kind of hold their hand and

574
00:33:40,356 --> 00:33:44,076
Speaker 3: helped them get situated and so forth. So it was

575
00:33:44,116 --> 00:33:47,636
Speaker 3: an interesting thing. But I also had access to the studio.

576
00:33:48,236 --> 00:33:50,796
Speaker 3: If I wanted to do demos or do something recording,

577
00:33:50,796 --> 00:33:52,996
Speaker 3: I could always get the free time. So I was

578
00:33:53,036 --> 00:33:55,476
Speaker 3: up there in the store. Would always scattered around to

579
00:33:55,516 --> 00:33:58,476
Speaker 3: see what was going on. And that was the first

580
00:33:58,516 --> 00:34:01,196
Speaker 3: time I saw you guys, and I knew then that

581
00:34:01,316 --> 00:34:03,596
Speaker 3: I liked it. And one thing led to another, and

582
00:34:03,636 --> 00:34:05,916
Speaker 3: they arrived in the parking lot and I'll tell you

583
00:34:05,996 --> 00:34:10,716
Speaker 3: something took the studio by storm. They would normally these

584
00:34:10,716 --> 00:34:13,876
Speaker 3: people are non plussed by anything. These guys came in

585
00:34:13,916 --> 00:34:16,876
Speaker 3: the parking lot with hoses up their nose and held

586
00:34:16,916 --> 00:34:20,796
Speaker 3: it on and the coveralls and boots and stuff, and

587
00:34:20,916 --> 00:34:25,036
Speaker 3: the people would completely lost their minds. Right, I said,

588
00:34:25,076 --> 00:34:27,276
Speaker 3: I love this. This is for me.

589
00:34:27,676 --> 00:34:30,036
Speaker 2: We were in the middle of a day of filming

590
00:34:30,076 --> 00:34:33,796
Speaker 2: with Neil Young for his movie Human Highway, and so

591
00:34:33,836 --> 00:34:36,436
Speaker 2: we had our costume. So we just rather than take

592
00:34:36,476 --> 00:34:38,676
Speaker 2: everything apart and clean our faces off, we just came

593
00:34:38,716 --> 00:34:40,796
Speaker 2: over and did it and then went back and we

594
00:34:40,796 --> 00:34:41,876
Speaker 2: were on the set again.

595
00:34:41,996 --> 00:34:45,196
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they turned, they turned the studio. We took

596
00:34:45,236 --> 00:34:49,436
Speaker 3: about a tour. Everybody saw it, and everybody lost their minds.

597
00:34:49,916 --> 00:34:54,996
Speaker 3: It was fucking crazy. But you know something, that's what

598
00:34:55,076 --> 00:34:57,916
Speaker 3: it endeared needed, these guys. And here we are. Mark

599
00:34:57,956 --> 00:34:59,996
Speaker 3: and I have been friends now for what fifty.

600
00:34:59,756 --> 00:35:02,596
Speaker 2: Years something like that? Yeah, yeah, maybe more of.

601
00:35:02,756 --> 00:35:08,076
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a long wonderful journey. You know. It's uh,

602
00:35:08,356 --> 00:35:12,676
Speaker 3: we both d our way in different ways, and we've

603
00:35:12,676 --> 00:35:16,076
Speaker 3: had a good fortune of having a great friendship I'm

604
00:35:16,116 --> 00:35:19,316
Speaker 3: just glad we're still here. I hope I live in another

605
00:35:19,356 --> 00:35:22,476
Speaker 3: twenty years of eighty five now. But if I could,

606
00:35:23,316 --> 00:35:25,676
Speaker 3: well it's gonna go on what I'm ninety five, I

607
00:35:25,676 --> 00:35:28,556
Speaker 3: would wonder where the where our music is? Is it

608
00:35:28,556 --> 00:35:31,036
Speaker 3: gonna still be eight bars of this and eight bars

609
00:35:31,076 --> 00:35:33,836
Speaker 3: of that, three and a half minutes of noise making

610
00:35:33,916 --> 00:35:36,116
Speaker 3: with words over the top? Or are we going to

611
00:35:36,196 --> 00:35:40,516
Speaker 3: go somewhere better, bigger, different? Yeah, that's what I really

612
00:35:40,516 --> 00:35:44,596
Speaker 3: hope to see. Mark is still cutting the front edge

613
00:35:44,596 --> 00:35:47,876
Speaker 3: of it. He's still gnawing away at it. I admire

614
00:35:47,956 --> 00:35:50,516
Speaker 3: that in you. I really do your brave soul. I

615
00:35:50,636 --> 00:35:51,596
Speaker 3: let's say, I.

616
00:35:51,556 --> 00:35:55,036
Speaker 1: Guess who sought out who about it? Did Devo look for?

617
00:35:55,236 --> 00:35:58,276
Speaker 2: We were looking for Margo, for somebody like a margle Off,

618
00:35:58,276 --> 00:36:01,196
Speaker 2: and then we found Margo Off. He became the guy

619
00:36:01,236 --> 00:36:06,436
Speaker 2: that we wanted to meet. And you're talking about business manager?

620
00:36:06,596 --> 00:36:07,956
Speaker 2: Did we have the same business managers?

621
00:36:07,996 --> 00:36:08,196
Speaker 1: Yeah?

622
00:36:08,196 --> 00:36:11,196
Speaker 2: We had the same okay, And so he made the

623
00:36:11,716 --> 00:36:12,796
Speaker 2: connection for us.

624
00:36:13,196 --> 00:36:18,116
Speaker 3: Were you I was just bobbing around, bobbing around, being

625
00:36:18,156 --> 00:36:19,356
Speaker 3: bob being bob.

626
00:36:19,436 --> 00:36:24,436
Speaker 1: YEA how aware of like any of those early records

627
00:36:24,596 --> 00:36:26,916
Speaker 1: that he did or the records before he worked with

628
00:36:26,996 --> 00:36:30,436
Speaker 1: you guys, were I mean of the Stevie records or

629
00:36:31,916 --> 00:36:34,556
Speaker 1: the Isley Brothers records, even lowthor in the hand people like,

630
00:36:34,876 --> 00:36:36,356
Speaker 1: were any of those records in your orbit?

631
00:36:36,556 --> 00:36:39,276
Speaker 2: Sure, that's all the stuff that made us want to

632
00:36:39,316 --> 00:36:41,996
Speaker 2: find him, because we'd see his name on all these

633
00:36:42,236 --> 00:36:46,156
Speaker 2: records that were things that we related to, And so

634
00:36:46,196 --> 00:36:48,236
Speaker 2: that's what made us look for him and try to

635
00:36:48,436 --> 00:36:50,476
Speaker 2: figure out, how do we talk to this guy? Would

636
00:36:50,476 --> 00:36:53,956
Speaker 2: he even be interested in working with somebody like we

637
00:36:53,956 --> 00:36:57,396
Speaker 2: weren't sure what he would be like or you know,

638
00:36:58,596 --> 00:37:00,636
Speaker 2: And so we met him and then we were like, oh,

639
00:37:00,756 --> 00:37:03,356
Speaker 2: this is perfect. This is going to be after we'd

640
00:37:03,596 --> 00:37:07,516
Speaker 2: had kind of a couple swinging Missus where we left

641
00:37:08,116 --> 00:37:10,876
Speaker 2: feeling like I wish we could have wish we could

642
00:37:10,876 --> 00:37:13,756
Speaker 2: do that again. This is the album that we never

643
00:37:13,796 --> 00:37:16,276
Speaker 2: felt like that about. Freedom of Choice was the first

644
00:37:16,276 --> 00:37:19,996
Speaker 2: album that we wrote after we had moved to California.

645
00:37:20,236 --> 00:37:24,236
Speaker 2: And Yeah, it was interesting. We were in this little

646
00:37:24,396 --> 00:37:27,876
Speaker 2: room on I think Seward where's SI R It's on?

647
00:37:29,396 --> 00:37:32,516
Speaker 3: Yeah, right around the corner for Motown. Yeah, maybe the

648
00:37:32,676 --> 00:37:38,516
Speaker 3: oral was flicking off and maybe Studio Motown's LA offices

649
00:37:38,516 --> 00:37:40,916
Speaker 3: were directly across the street on the corner.

650
00:37:41,196 --> 00:37:43,876
Speaker 2: Yeah, writing that album was interesting because we did it

651
00:37:43,876 --> 00:37:46,196
Speaker 2: in the room about the size of this. That was

652
00:37:46,236 --> 00:37:51,236
Speaker 2: a storefront that they'd covered up the window and attached

653
00:37:51,276 --> 00:37:55,796
Speaker 2: to that was a big room that was a grocery store,

654
00:37:55,916 --> 00:37:57,996
Speaker 2: had been a grocery store and was later going to

655
00:37:58,036 --> 00:38:02,116
Speaker 2: become Amba Records. And then I don't know what it

656
00:38:02,196 --> 00:38:05,636
Speaker 2: is now because I think Amiba moved out, but apartments.

657
00:38:05,796 --> 00:38:11,036
Speaker 2: We remember what's their name, Pink Floyd. They were They

658
00:38:11,036 --> 00:38:12,996
Speaker 2: had the big room and they were rehearsing for a

659
00:38:13,036 --> 00:38:17,356
Speaker 2: tour and they had three semi trucks and they wanted

660
00:38:17,396 --> 00:38:19,236
Speaker 2: to go down to two semi trucks, and so they

661
00:38:19,436 --> 00:38:23,636
Speaker 2: were throwing stuff away like old anvil cases and and

662
00:38:24,116 --> 00:38:29,316
Speaker 2: lights and stuff, and they set a on dealing on

663
00:38:29,436 --> 00:38:32,476
Speaker 2: top of the trash heap, and I was just you know,

664
00:38:32,516 --> 00:38:35,276
Speaker 2: watching them because you know, they didn't know who we were.

665
00:38:34,996 --> 00:38:38,676
Speaker 2: They were like big and we were just like nobody.

666
00:38:39,076 --> 00:38:42,356
Speaker 2: And when they put it on the trash heap, I said, Hey,

667
00:38:42,436 --> 00:38:43,716
Speaker 2: what are you guys going to do with that? And

668
00:38:43,756 --> 00:38:47,196
Speaker 2: they said, I said you want it? I go yeah,

669
00:38:47,236 --> 00:38:50,116
Speaker 2: And so I got this incredible We ended up using

670
00:38:50,156 --> 00:38:53,076
Speaker 2: it on something. I can't remember which song, but we

671
00:38:53,076 --> 00:38:54,196
Speaker 2: we put it on something.

672
00:38:54,756 --> 00:38:56,236
Speaker 1: Do you know what it ended up on? Do you

673
00:38:56,276 --> 00:38:56,756
Speaker 1: know which song?

674
00:38:56,916 --> 00:39:01,036
Speaker 3: Or don't remember? I probably remember tonight we.

675
00:39:01,196 --> 00:39:04,556
Speaker 2: We you know, we ended up meeting after I think

676
00:39:04,596 --> 00:39:07,396
Speaker 2: we'd already finished writing this stuff, or we were pretty

677
00:39:07,396 --> 00:39:08,716
Speaker 2: far through by the time.

678
00:39:08,756 --> 00:39:11,596
Speaker 3: I went a couple of rehearsals made some suggestions, but

679
00:39:12,076 --> 00:39:16,076
Speaker 3: seeing them in the studio in the rehearsal space gave

680
00:39:16,116 --> 00:39:19,716
Speaker 3: me a lot of ideas on what I knew when

681
00:39:19,716 --> 00:39:23,196
Speaker 3: I saw them that they were the ideal candidates to

682
00:39:23,236 --> 00:39:26,436
Speaker 3: bring into the control room. And because the record plant

683
00:39:26,476 --> 00:39:29,516
Speaker 3: had big quad monitors, so you have to understand this

684
00:39:29,716 --> 00:39:34,076
Speaker 3: was a time when the studios were moving toward quadraphonic

685
00:39:34,916 --> 00:39:39,076
Speaker 3: and that meant speakers in the back. They had come

686
00:39:39,156 --> 00:39:42,636
Speaker 3: up with a system called san sui QS was supposed

687
00:39:42,676 --> 00:39:47,636
Speaker 3: to be able to put quad quadraphonic music quadraphonias. I

688
00:39:47,676 --> 00:39:54,156
Speaker 3: think somebody one artists did, but quadraph and they were

689
00:39:54,276 --> 00:39:56,876
Speaker 3: supposed to be able to put quad sound and vinyl.

690
00:39:57,596 --> 00:40:01,436
Speaker 3: Well that was a miserable failure, but a lot of

691
00:40:01,476 --> 00:40:04,116
Speaker 3: people tried to do it, and of course the record

692
00:40:04,116 --> 00:40:07,476
Speaker 3: plant was very keen being that there were not only

693
00:40:07,516 --> 00:40:11,836
Speaker 3: a fantasy, a psychedel fantasy of Gary Kelgrin's. But the

694
00:40:11,876 --> 00:40:16,276
Speaker 3: technology level at that studio was pretty amazing. They built

695
00:40:16,316 --> 00:40:19,356
Speaker 3: some QUAD rooms, so when we came on board with Steve,

696
00:40:20,076 --> 00:40:24,516
Speaker 3: we had these QUAD spaces, and when I started working

697
00:40:24,556 --> 00:40:27,916
Speaker 3: with the Boys, for example, I was monitoring in QUAD

698
00:40:27,956 --> 00:40:29,876
Speaker 3: in the control room. We could never get it into

699
00:40:29,956 --> 00:40:33,916
Speaker 3: vinyl the right way, and basically QUAD failed. People didn't

700
00:40:33,956 --> 00:40:37,676
Speaker 3: want to buy a separate amplifier for the back speakers,

701
00:40:37,796 --> 00:40:40,796
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of questions about it, and if

702
00:40:40,876 --> 00:40:42,956
Speaker 3: you had a wife used to get the subwuffer out

703
00:40:42,956 --> 00:40:46,356
Speaker 3: of the fireplace and were out from under the piano,

704
00:40:47,156 --> 00:40:49,676
Speaker 3: and it became you know, if you were wealthy, you

705
00:40:49,716 --> 00:40:53,516
Speaker 3: could have quad sound in your home theater. But it

706
00:40:53,596 --> 00:40:56,756
Speaker 3: never really took off. But where really took off and

707
00:40:56,796 --> 00:41:00,276
Speaker 3: where we really used it was monitoring in the control room,

708
00:41:00,756 --> 00:41:04,796
Speaker 3: where I could monitor in QUAD and really self realized

709
00:41:05,396 --> 00:41:08,796
Speaker 3: we didn't need to use earphones because we could be

710
00:41:09,756 --> 00:41:12,396
Speaker 3: we can get all the cross talk, the right stuff

711
00:41:12,396 --> 00:41:14,556
Speaker 3: come out of the right speaker going into your left

712
00:41:14,556 --> 00:41:18,236
Speaker 3: ear and vice versa, and that was really what changed

713
00:41:18,956 --> 00:41:22,036
Speaker 3: Devo's voice. I was able and they were able to

714
00:41:22,116 --> 00:41:25,196
Speaker 3: really hear what was going on. The important thing about

715
00:41:25,196 --> 00:41:28,556
Speaker 3: devo and recording in the studio is to keep it simple.

716
00:41:29,316 --> 00:41:32,996
Speaker 3: Knock off the overdubbing everywhere you can, stop orchestrating it.

717
00:41:33,316 --> 00:41:36,036
Speaker 3: Stop making it a Robert Margoleft record, Make it a

718
00:41:36,116 --> 00:41:41,516
Speaker 3: Devo record. The thing sometimes the producer's best thing is

719
00:41:41,556 --> 00:41:43,316
Speaker 3: to stay behind the fucking curtain.

720
00:41:43,916 --> 00:41:44,196
Speaker 1: You know.

721
00:41:44,516 --> 00:41:46,276
Speaker 3: I don't want the record to sound like, oh, that's

722
00:41:46,276 --> 00:41:48,916
Speaker 3: a Robert Margolef record. I want it to be a

723
00:41:48,996 --> 00:41:51,876
Speaker 3: Devo record. I wanted to be a Stevie Wonder record.

724
00:41:51,996 --> 00:41:54,796
Speaker 1: I think he succeeded in that and all it almost

725
00:41:54,876 --> 00:41:56,316
Speaker 1: all respects, because.

726
00:41:57,676 --> 00:42:00,156
Speaker 3: You know, looking back on it, I realized how much

727
00:42:00,556 --> 00:42:04,676
Speaker 3: how we listen is how it affects the recordings. And

728
00:42:04,996 --> 00:42:07,396
Speaker 3: that's what separates the men from the boys in terms

729
00:42:07,436 --> 00:42:11,716
Speaker 3: of making great recordings, in my opinion, especially pop records.

730
00:42:11,756 --> 00:42:13,756
Speaker 3: But sooner or later you're going to get away from

731
00:42:13,796 --> 00:42:15,836
Speaker 3: those eight bars of this and eight bars of that.

732
00:42:16,356 --> 00:42:18,876
Speaker 3: I want to see where you go with your film writing.

733
00:42:19,196 --> 00:42:20,636
Speaker 3: That's the interesting stuff.

734
00:42:20,716 --> 00:42:22,556
Speaker 2: Well, maybe I should play some things.

735
00:42:22,796 --> 00:42:25,396
Speaker 3: I'd be I'm all ears all the time for you,

736
00:42:25,476 --> 00:42:28,596
Speaker 3: my friend. Okay, I would love to go back in

737
00:42:28,636 --> 00:42:32,516
Speaker 3: the studio and really create something crazy with you and Jerry.

738
00:42:32,556 --> 00:42:35,916
Speaker 1: That would be great fun with divover make another record

739
00:42:35,996 --> 00:42:40,476
Speaker 1: or is that I'm trying to encourage it and I'm

740
00:42:40,596 --> 00:42:43,516
Speaker 1: using different lures to get us there.

741
00:42:43,596 --> 00:42:46,356
Speaker 2: So we'll see what happens. You never know, Help you succeed,

742
00:42:46,436 --> 00:42:49,596
Speaker 2: hope you succeed. You know. Just when we worked with him,

743
00:42:49,636 --> 00:42:53,396
Speaker 2: it was a time before automation. I still love analog

744
00:42:53,556 --> 00:42:57,836
Speaker 2: sense and all that. But we'd get our settings and

745
00:42:57,876 --> 00:43:00,756
Speaker 2: we'd record them, you know, like on Thursday night, and

746
00:43:00,796 --> 00:43:02,596
Speaker 2: then Friday morning we'd come in and listen to it

747
00:43:02,636 --> 00:43:05,596
Speaker 2: and go, yeah, what if I wish we would have

748
00:43:05,596 --> 00:43:07,676
Speaker 2: done this a little different, you know on the sound

749
00:43:07,756 --> 00:43:10,356
Speaker 2: of the bass and stuff. And that's Bob solved that

750
00:43:10,476 --> 00:43:14,316
Speaker 2: problem by teaching us how to send like a sense

751
00:43:14,316 --> 00:43:18,516
Speaker 2: into three different outputs, for instance, or like put an

752
00:43:18,516 --> 00:43:21,196
Speaker 2: amp up in one room that's clean, a namp up

753
00:43:21,196 --> 00:43:25,716
Speaker 2: that's distorted in another room, and then a board sound

754
00:43:25,836 --> 00:43:28,036
Speaker 2: and then you could the next day you could change

755
00:43:28,076 --> 00:43:32,196
Speaker 2: things just a little bit. And that was one of

756
00:43:32,236 --> 00:43:36,156
Speaker 2: the things that frustrated us with recording was up until then,

757
00:43:36,516 --> 00:43:40,716
Speaker 2: so he was he taught us like really important things

758
00:43:40,796 --> 00:43:41,196
Speaker 2: back then.

759
00:43:41,396 --> 00:43:44,116
Speaker 1: So you would make a distorted speaker, a clean speaker,

760
00:43:44,196 --> 00:43:47,316
Speaker 1: and then have one channel going right into the board.

761
00:43:47,436 --> 00:43:49,676
Speaker 1: You have more of a dry sound and then be

762
00:43:49,716 --> 00:43:53,676
Speaker 1: able to play with the next day.

763
00:43:53,516 --> 00:43:59,956
Speaker 2: After because analogs, since you know, they didn't sound exactly

764
00:43:59,996 --> 00:44:02,596
Speaker 2: the same from day to day. You plug them in

765
00:44:02,636 --> 00:44:05,116
Speaker 2: again and they're warming up and you're playing it and

766
00:44:05,156 --> 00:44:07,396
Speaker 2: it sounds different than when it gets fully warmed up.

767
00:44:07,436 --> 00:44:11,236
Speaker 2: And there wasn't there just wasn't automation back then.

768
00:44:11,556 --> 00:44:15,996
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had what we called what I called armstrong automation,

769
00:44:16,676 --> 00:44:21,996
Speaker 3: which is like doing it by hand. Yeah, that's but

770
00:44:22,396 --> 00:44:26,996
Speaker 3: there's something to be said for that, and I missed that.

771
00:44:27,116 --> 00:44:29,956
Speaker 3: Now you know, we have digitalists, and that I mean

772
00:44:30,276 --> 00:44:33,196
Speaker 3: when we were mixing, for example, and we were at

773
00:44:33,236 --> 00:44:35,876
Speaker 3: six o'clock in the morning and we still weren't where

774
00:44:35,916 --> 00:44:38,316
Speaker 3: we wanted to be, we put a big piece of

775
00:44:38,396 --> 00:44:44,396
Speaker 3: tape across basking tape across the console. Don't touch up nub. Yeah,

776
00:44:44,436 --> 00:44:49,316
Speaker 3: it's more than me jobs worth, right, It's that we

777
00:44:49,356 --> 00:44:51,876
Speaker 3: had to come back and we thought we walked out

778
00:44:51,916 --> 00:44:54,356
Speaker 3: of the room and I just headed out to Malibu

779
00:44:54,396 --> 00:44:57,476
Speaker 3: and flying along the freeway at six in the morning. Boy,

780
00:44:58,156 --> 00:45:01,876
Speaker 3: that was fucking terrific. It sounded wonderful. Nothing was touching.

781
00:45:01,956 --> 00:45:04,316
Speaker 3: We'd come back in the room and we put it

782
00:45:04,396 --> 00:45:07,276
Speaker 3: up and I'd expect to be wow. And I said

783
00:45:07,316 --> 00:45:13,156
Speaker 3: to myself, dang, sounds like shit. You know, yeah, okay,

784
00:45:13,996 --> 00:45:16,796
Speaker 3: you know so. And then we'd be juggling it around

785
00:45:16,836 --> 00:45:18,276
Speaker 3: for another six hours.

786
00:45:18,356 --> 00:45:19,996
Speaker 2: Yeah. Before there was then the.

787
00:45:20,476 --> 00:45:22,956
Speaker 3: Jerry Him and Jerry would go out in the parking

788
00:45:22,996 --> 00:45:25,396
Speaker 3: lot and argue with each other this, that and the

789
00:45:25,436 --> 00:45:28,436
Speaker 3: other thing right, And I said, oh, man, what did

790
00:45:28,476 --> 00:45:31,916
Speaker 3: I do this time? You know it was it was

791
00:45:32,116 --> 00:45:33,116
Speaker 3: circus man.

792
00:45:32,956 --> 00:45:37,356
Speaker 2: But you but you taught us away to to bypass

793
00:45:37,396 --> 00:45:41,116
Speaker 2: out with with the multiple multi channel recording. You know,

794
00:45:41,156 --> 00:45:43,036
Speaker 2: there was only five of us and you had twenty

795
00:45:43,036 --> 00:45:46,036
Speaker 2: four tracks on a on a two inch tape.

796
00:45:46,156 --> 00:45:48,756
Speaker 3: I had a wonderful time making that record. I really

797
00:45:48,796 --> 00:45:49,276
Speaker 3: loved it.

798
00:45:49,716 --> 00:45:52,036
Speaker 1: Were you aware of the kind of I guess. I mean,

799
00:45:52,076 --> 00:45:54,676
Speaker 1: I don't know how truly precarious it was, but it

800
00:45:54,676 --> 00:45:56,356
Speaker 1: seemed like you guys were kind of in trouble a

801
00:45:56,356 --> 00:45:59,236
Speaker 1: bit with the label because of what they felt were

802
00:45:59,396 --> 00:46:01,596
Speaker 1: perceived back of sales in the first two You know.

803
00:46:02,516 --> 00:46:05,876
Speaker 2: I think David Bowie kind of pushed Warner Brothers into

804
00:46:05,876 --> 00:46:08,516
Speaker 2: signing us in the first place because he wanted to

805
00:46:08,836 --> 00:46:13,996
Speaker 2: He wanted to then sign us to Beauley Brothers, which

806
00:46:14,076 --> 00:46:16,956
Speaker 2: was his production company, and we didn't do that because

807
00:46:16,996 --> 00:46:19,196
Speaker 2: it was like a bad It was a terrible deal.

808
00:46:19,276 --> 00:46:22,436
Speaker 2: His lawyer was giving us. It was like we were

809
00:46:22,716 --> 00:46:25,316
Speaker 2: going to give away like fifty percent of everything that

810
00:46:25,356 --> 00:46:29,396
Speaker 2: we'd ever done and to this and I was like, well, no,

811
00:46:29,556 --> 00:46:32,276
Speaker 2: that's not going to work. But he kind of got

812
00:46:32,356 --> 00:46:35,636
Speaker 2: him to sign us, and then you know, the first

813
00:46:35,636 --> 00:46:38,796
Speaker 2: couple albums came out, and although we'd been on Saturday

814
00:46:38,836 --> 00:46:42,076
Speaker 2: Night Live, it was only college stations that were playing

815
00:46:42,076 --> 00:46:45,116
Speaker 2: our music. In the US and Europe it was different.

816
00:46:45,116 --> 00:46:48,156
Speaker 2: We had, like before we even had our first album out,

817
00:46:48,196 --> 00:46:51,036
Speaker 2: we had off of our demos, we had four different

818
00:46:51,076 --> 00:46:54,676
Speaker 2: songs going to the top ten, three of them number

819
00:46:54,756 --> 00:46:58,436
Speaker 2: one in different countries in Europe. But that meant nothing

820
00:46:58,476 --> 00:47:03,036
Speaker 2: in the US because US was the BMF giant monster

821
00:47:03,516 --> 00:47:07,116
Speaker 2: for record sales, and you know, Europe was just tiny

822
00:47:07,236 --> 00:47:10,476
Speaker 2: compared to that, so they didn't They were just hoping

823
00:47:10,516 --> 00:47:13,036
Speaker 2: that something would happen with the with the records, and

824
00:47:13,076 --> 00:47:17,396
Speaker 2: it took the third album for for something to get

825
00:47:17,436 --> 00:47:19,356
Speaker 2: on on the radio in the US.

826
00:47:19,516 --> 00:47:21,836
Speaker 1: Did you feel that the pressure or did you not

827
00:47:22,316 --> 00:47:24,476
Speaker 1: page Like, did you care? Did you not care that

828
00:47:24,676 --> 00:47:27,076
Speaker 1: pressure was coming from the label to yees?

829
00:47:27,196 --> 00:47:29,156
Speaker 2: And though I had to try to not care about

830
00:47:29,156 --> 00:47:31,636
Speaker 2: it because because for me, I was just thinking, you

831
00:47:31,676 --> 00:47:34,796
Speaker 2: know what, I'm living such an amazing life right now

832
00:47:34,796 --> 00:47:37,236
Speaker 2: that I get to write music and put it on

833
00:47:37,276 --> 00:47:39,356
Speaker 2: a record and go out and play places. I just

834
00:47:39,396 --> 00:47:43,076
Speaker 2: felt blessed that I was in the position I was in.

835
00:47:43,236 --> 00:47:45,836
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know with Stevie, there were a lot of

836
00:47:45,836 --> 00:47:49,076
Speaker 1: interesting interactions with the with the label, with Motown that

837
00:47:49,156 --> 00:47:50,996
Speaker 1: you had stepping into this situation.

838
00:47:51,196 --> 00:47:54,636
Speaker 2: Well, he was feeding Motown, you know, because everybody if

839
00:47:54,676 --> 00:47:57,236
Speaker 2: he had a hit song, that made a difference. You know,

840
00:47:57,396 --> 00:48:00,676
Speaker 2: for everybody that worked at the record company, Divo was

841
00:48:00,756 --> 00:48:02,956
Speaker 2: just so far down the chain that you know, we

842
00:48:02,956 --> 00:48:04,676
Speaker 2: were nobody cared about us.

843
00:48:04,756 --> 00:48:06,996
Speaker 3: But did they know you guys cut a mighty bow

844
00:48:07,116 --> 00:48:11,196
Speaker 3: wave and look how look how their stuff has lasted,

845
00:48:11,676 --> 00:48:14,676
Speaker 3: and how you're still here and still on stage. I

846
00:48:14,716 --> 00:48:19,236
Speaker 3: think that's absolutely remarkable, and I really support you for that.

847
00:48:19,556 --> 00:48:23,196
Speaker 3: I think that you are really a social mover and

848
00:48:23,236 --> 00:48:26,196
Speaker 3: you've brought a lot to music and to people and

849
00:48:27,036 --> 00:48:29,756
Speaker 3: all I want to do is see it continue to happen. Thanks,

850
00:48:30,316 --> 00:48:33,516
Speaker 3: And I absolutely loved writing a book. It was strange

851
00:48:33,916 --> 00:48:38,796
Speaker 3: shaping sounds. I really was shaping sounds. I just felt

852
00:48:38,636 --> 00:48:42,596
Speaker 3: that I was doing something that was important to I

853
00:48:42,796 --> 00:48:45,796
Speaker 3: really have to say it's important, and what I'm really

854
00:48:45,876 --> 00:48:49,796
Speaker 3: enjoying now is giving it away and actually the stories

855
00:48:49,836 --> 00:48:53,436
Speaker 3: maybe change people thinking about the creative act. I'm writing

856
00:48:53,436 --> 00:48:55,716
Speaker 3: about perception and hearing right now. I'm going to write

857
00:48:55,716 --> 00:48:59,516
Speaker 3: a book about it. And it's amazing what goes in

858
00:48:59,556 --> 00:49:02,556
Speaker 3: those little holes in the sides of our head and

859
00:49:02,556 --> 00:49:05,116
Speaker 3: what's really going in going in there, and how it

860
00:49:05,156 --> 00:49:09,116
Speaker 3: affects our brains. We've had music since the cave time

861
00:49:09,116 --> 00:49:12,036
Speaker 3: times I would I just I'm just eager to see

862
00:49:12,036 --> 00:49:15,636
Speaker 3: where it's gonna go next. And I know that I'm

863
00:49:15,756 --> 00:49:18,396
Speaker 3: sort of one of those senior guys. Now I'm not

864
00:49:18,476 --> 00:49:21,036
Speaker 3: twenty years old anymore, although I feel I am in

865
00:49:21,076 --> 00:49:23,876
Speaker 3: my head until I get try to stand up. Then

866
00:49:23,916 --> 00:49:28,156
Speaker 3: I really realize I'm a d five and not nineteen.

867
00:49:28,916 --> 00:49:30,556
Speaker 3: But I'm still a boy in my brain.

868
00:49:30,956 --> 00:49:35,076
Speaker 2: Yeah you know, so are you? Yes, there's a part

869
00:49:35,076 --> 00:49:41,596
Speaker 2: of us that that defies the downward spiral of the

870
00:49:41,636 --> 00:49:46,436
Speaker 2: aging process, the humiliation of getting older.

871
00:49:46,756 --> 00:49:49,476
Speaker 3: I still feel immortal at your age, I'm sure.

872
00:49:49,436 --> 00:49:52,836
Speaker 1: Sort of, sort of, not quite. I still think I'm

873
00:49:52,836 --> 00:49:54,676
Speaker 1: twenty one and I wake up and realize them.

874
00:49:54,716 --> 00:49:56,116
Speaker 2: Well, keep that thought in your head.

875
00:49:56,476 --> 00:49:58,556
Speaker 1: No, well, you know, but then I get my older daughter.

876
00:49:58,556 --> 00:50:00,596
Speaker 1: I like my daughters are closer to twenty one than I.

877
00:50:00,956 --> 00:50:03,716
Speaker 2: That's a little we're we're kind of grousing a little

878
00:50:03,716 --> 00:50:06,236
Speaker 2: bit about AI here, but at the same time, we're

879
00:50:06,276 --> 00:50:09,356
Speaker 2: hoping it makes us twenty one again, aren't we absolute.

880
00:50:09,556 --> 00:50:12,236
Speaker 2: I'm ready for that. I'd tried it out again.

881
00:50:13,316 --> 00:50:17,316
Speaker 3: Mark is doing something really interesting right now. It's defies explanation.

882
00:50:17,916 --> 00:50:19,836
Speaker 3: But the last time I in this room, there were

883
00:50:20,476 --> 00:50:25,556
Speaker 3: fog horns, air horns, compressors, all kinds of things, making

884
00:50:25,596 --> 00:50:29,596
Speaker 3: pneumatic music with the bellows electric bellows like from a

885
00:50:29,636 --> 00:50:33,076
Speaker 3: player piano that would power up all that stuff. And

886
00:50:33,116 --> 00:50:37,396
Speaker 3: he was making music with instruments that were totally foreign

887
00:50:37,556 --> 00:50:40,716
Speaker 3: to what you would consider a musical instrument. It was

888
00:50:40,756 --> 00:50:45,836
Speaker 3: a whole new acoustical kind of living creature. I really

889
00:50:45,876 --> 00:50:47,956
Speaker 3: had wanted to go out there to see him do it.

890
00:50:48,036 --> 00:50:52,316
Speaker 3: But he's going to some really exciting and different places now.

891
00:50:52,356 --> 00:50:55,716
Speaker 3: Because he has the liberty to do it. Yeah, and

892
00:50:55,916 --> 00:50:58,476
Speaker 3: I think that that is a great gift that he's

893
00:50:58,996 --> 00:51:01,436
Speaker 3: earned to be able to do that kind of stuff,

894
00:51:01,436 --> 00:51:04,836
Speaker 3: and I admire it, I really do. I want to

895
00:51:04,876 --> 00:51:07,316
Speaker 3: play in that sandbox. I want to bring my bucket

896
00:51:07,316 --> 00:51:11,196
Speaker 3: and shovel my bib overalls and down and do some stuff.

897
00:51:11,716 --> 00:51:13,636
Speaker 2: Well, careful what you say, because.

898
00:51:13,636 --> 00:51:16,196
Speaker 3: I'm ready, boy. I like this stuff.

899
00:51:16,356 --> 00:51:19,596
Speaker 1: Yeah, after this last break, we'll be back with more

900
00:51:19,676 --> 00:51:26,756
Speaker 1: from Robert and Mark. I'm thinking about the work you

901
00:51:26,756 --> 00:51:28,596
Speaker 1: guys did, the fact that you guys did whip it.

902
00:51:28,876 --> 00:51:31,796
Speaker 1: You know that you were able to create a signature

903
00:51:31,916 --> 00:51:35,396
Speaker 1: song for the band, you know, I mean I don't.

904
00:51:35,436 --> 00:51:37,876
Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys think it's going to be like

905
00:51:37,956 --> 00:51:40,036
Speaker 1: the hit it was when you created it, right, I

906
00:51:40,076 --> 00:51:40,636
Speaker 1: don't know what.

907
00:51:40,556 --> 00:51:42,996
Speaker 2: We thought it was when we created it. It was

908
00:51:43,116 --> 00:51:47,236
Speaker 2: kind of like the lyrics were kind of directed towards

909
00:51:47,436 --> 00:51:49,276
Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter, but they were also kind of in a

910
00:51:49,356 --> 00:51:52,716
Speaker 2: Thomas Pinsion style. I don't know if you ever read

911
00:51:52,796 --> 00:51:57,076
Speaker 2: Gravity's Rainbow, but there's like, you have this really complicated

912
00:51:57,156 --> 00:51:59,756
Speaker 2: story going on, and then all of a sudden, somebody

913
00:51:59,756 --> 00:52:02,356
Speaker 2: will look out a window and they'll they'll watch some

914
00:52:02,396 --> 00:52:05,316
Speaker 2: little kids playing on the street and they're just singing

915
00:52:05,316 --> 00:52:08,996
Speaker 2: a nursery song that goes on for a couple pages

916
00:52:09,436 --> 00:52:11,756
Speaker 2: in Gravity's Rainbow. Then it goes back into this really

917
00:52:11,796 --> 00:52:14,756
Speaker 2: intense story, and we kind of liked that. I think

918
00:52:14,796 --> 00:52:17,116
Speaker 2: that's what we were thinking about at the time, was

919
00:52:17,156 --> 00:52:19,956
Speaker 2: something like that, and we didn't really we didn't really

920
00:52:19,996 --> 00:52:23,516
Speaker 2: think it would be a hit song. We thought a

921
00:52:23,636 --> 00:52:26,476
Speaker 2: matter of fact, Warner Brothers thought Girl You Want was

922
00:52:26,516 --> 00:52:28,356
Speaker 2: going to be the song that would get on the radio,

923
00:52:28,596 --> 00:52:31,076
Speaker 2: and they put that out first, and then it was

924
00:52:31,756 --> 00:52:38,036
Speaker 2: somebody that programmed discos in Florida that heard whip it

925
00:52:38,116 --> 00:52:40,316
Speaker 2: and thought, oh, that would sound good on a dance floor,

926
00:52:40,716 --> 00:52:43,556
Speaker 2: and they started adding it and everybody picked it up,

927
00:52:43,556 --> 00:52:45,716
Speaker 2: and then it happened that a way.

928
00:52:45,796 --> 00:52:46,716
Speaker 3: It had the energy.

929
00:52:47,236 --> 00:52:49,716
Speaker 2: Yeah, it had the right energy. But for me when

930
00:52:49,796 --> 00:52:52,036
Speaker 2: we first came out here, before we came out to

931
00:52:52,276 --> 00:52:57,516
Speaker 2: California and we were first just pure artists creating ideas

932
00:52:57,556 --> 00:53:00,716
Speaker 2: and music, I was imagining something because I was so

933
00:53:00,876 --> 00:53:05,276
Speaker 2: into the twenties, nineteen twenties, nineteen thirties in Europe. We

934
00:53:05,276 --> 00:53:08,276
Speaker 2: were thinking, oh, we're gonna have like a cabaret or

935
00:53:08,276 --> 00:53:10,436
Speaker 2: we're gonna have a club that we play at and

936
00:53:10,476 --> 00:53:15,636
Speaker 2: it'll be theatrical and it'll be you know this extreme music.

937
00:53:15,396 --> 00:53:16,476
Speaker 3: Three penny opera.

938
00:53:16,916 --> 00:53:19,556
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was yeah, and we thought of what

939
00:53:19,596 --> 00:53:21,676
Speaker 2: we were doing was much more extreme. But then when

940
00:53:21,716 --> 00:53:25,796
Speaker 2: we started playing places and we used to sound a

941
00:53:25,796 --> 00:53:30,716
Speaker 2: lot more like Captain Beefheart meets an Italian sci fi movie.

942
00:53:31,356 --> 00:53:35,236
Speaker 2: And in Ohio at that time period in the early seventies,

943
00:53:36,196 --> 00:53:38,796
Speaker 2: people were just like they were coming out of factories

944
00:53:39,076 --> 00:53:40,876
Speaker 2: and they wanted to go to a bar, have a

945
00:53:40,956 --> 00:53:44,876
Speaker 2: drink and listen to the music that they heard on

946
00:53:44,916 --> 00:53:48,156
Speaker 2: the radio live. And they didn't want to hear new music,

947
00:53:48,156 --> 00:53:50,076
Speaker 2: and they didn't want to hear political music, and they

948
00:53:50,076 --> 00:53:53,716
Speaker 2: didn't want to hear weirdo music where things like Jockohomo

949
00:53:54,716 --> 00:53:57,396
Speaker 2: or mongoloid, they didn't want to hear that stuff. And

950
00:53:57,476 --> 00:54:00,356
Speaker 2: so we were thinking, well, what are we going to do,

951
00:54:00,396 --> 00:54:02,876
Speaker 2: and we thought we thought subversion was the way to

952
00:54:02,916 --> 00:54:04,876
Speaker 2: get in, and we thought, yeah, we have to do

953
00:54:04,916 --> 00:54:08,676
Speaker 2: it like Madison Avenue does it, where they they tricked

954
00:54:08,676 --> 00:54:11,556
Speaker 2: people in the eating things and buying cars that are

955
00:54:11,636 --> 00:54:15,196
Speaker 2: terrible and wearing clothes that look stupid, and then people

956
00:54:15,196 --> 00:54:17,916
Speaker 2: feeling proud of it. We thought, well, we'll use their techniques,

957
00:54:17,916 --> 00:54:21,236
Speaker 2: but we'll just have a better product that we're selling.

958
00:54:21,676 --> 00:54:24,436
Speaker 2: And so we were looking for what would be our

959
00:54:24,956 --> 00:54:28,276
Speaker 2: song that would lure people in, and Whippet was exactly that,

960
00:54:28,436 --> 00:54:31,676
Speaker 2: because people would buy the album and then they'd hear

961
00:54:31,716 --> 00:54:35,956
Speaker 2: the song freedom of Choice is what you've got, freedom thrum,

962
00:54:36,116 --> 00:54:38,996
Speaker 2: choice is what you want, and then they go what

963
00:54:39,036 --> 00:54:39,676
Speaker 2: does that mean?

964
00:54:39,796 --> 00:54:39,996
Speaker 1: You know?

965
00:54:40,076 --> 00:54:44,076
Speaker 2: And so it was the song that got people to

966
00:54:44,116 --> 00:54:46,276
Speaker 2: listen to us that otherwise would have just gone no.

967
00:54:46,556 --> 00:54:49,156
Speaker 1: I imagine though, having a hit like that must have been

968
00:54:50,116 --> 00:54:53,956
Speaker 1: exciting for not only because it seems almost impossible to

969
00:54:53,996 --> 00:54:56,836
Speaker 1: get something a hit of that magnitude, but it also

970
00:54:56,836 --> 00:54:59,236
Speaker 1: seems like it could be a bit a little stifling.

971
00:54:59,876 --> 00:55:03,156
Speaker 2: Well, you know what happens then, is then when you

972
00:55:03,196 --> 00:55:06,556
Speaker 2: do your next album, a record company that had totally

973
00:55:06,836 --> 00:55:10,836
Speaker 2: just we're just waiting for you to up your five

974
00:55:10,916 --> 00:55:14,596
Speaker 2: album deal and get lost, all of a sudden, they

975
00:55:14,596 --> 00:55:16,796
Speaker 2: were like sticking their heads in the door, going, hey,

976
00:55:16,956 --> 00:55:19,156
Speaker 2: how's it going. Yeah, whatever you do.

977
00:55:19,196 --> 00:55:20,996
Speaker 3: The letter jackets as I call them.

978
00:55:20,956 --> 00:55:23,196
Speaker 2: Yeah, they go, just make sure you do another whip

979
00:55:23,196 --> 00:55:25,596
Speaker 2: it And we'd be like, okay, Well, We don't even

980
00:55:25,596 --> 00:55:27,916
Speaker 2: know how we did that one, so don't you know,

981
00:55:27,996 --> 00:55:31,476
Speaker 2: it was just kind of it was just kind of accidental. Anyhow, Yeah,

982
00:55:31,556 --> 00:55:32,876
Speaker 2: that was an interesting record.

983
00:55:32,916 --> 00:55:37,716
Speaker 3: I remember recording the whip Crack in the hall Howard Siegel,

984
00:55:38,236 --> 00:55:41,796
Speaker 3: God bless them, she's gone now. But we were working together.

985
00:55:41,876 --> 00:55:45,036
Speaker 3: He was the engineering partner, and he'd be running up

986
00:55:45,076 --> 00:55:46,876
Speaker 3: and down the hall at the record plant. We had

987
00:55:46,876 --> 00:55:51,516
Speaker 3: this big, long hallway between the studios and the canteen

988
00:55:51,636 --> 00:55:54,516
Speaker 3: and stuff. We had microphones down at the end of

989
00:55:54,516 --> 00:55:57,356
Speaker 3: the hall, and I think you and Jerry were cracking

990
00:55:57,396 --> 00:55:59,196
Speaker 3: the whip. I said, let me try it, and I

991
00:55:59,356 --> 00:56:02,556
Speaker 3: cracked it and cracked myself in the face, and I

992
00:56:02,756 --> 00:56:05,196
Speaker 3: sort of gave up. But you know, we weren't making

993
00:56:05,356 --> 00:56:07,876
Speaker 3: There was no such thing as sampling or you cracked

994
00:56:07,956 --> 00:56:10,916
Speaker 3: this whip, or let's do whip crack from this library

995
00:56:11,036 --> 00:56:14,196
Speaker 3: or that louck. We had to do everything ourselves, and

996
00:56:14,236 --> 00:56:17,116
Speaker 3: then we had to fly everything in because there's no stores,

997
00:56:17,156 --> 00:56:20,996
Speaker 3: there's no digital anything, right, right, So I remember us

998
00:56:20,996 --> 00:56:24,036
Speaker 3: flying all those whip cracks and then over dubbing stuff

999
00:56:24,076 --> 00:56:26,676
Speaker 3: on top of it and doing it. It was like a

1000
00:56:26,756 --> 00:56:30,676
Speaker 3: crazy bunch of alchemists. Yeah, we were completely nuts.

1001
00:56:30,916 --> 00:56:35,796
Speaker 2: We were one step ahead of the digital sampling where

1002
00:56:35,836 --> 00:56:38,516
Speaker 2: you could like do something like that and then have

1003
00:56:38,636 --> 00:56:41,076
Speaker 2: it on a key and play it later. So that

1004
00:56:41,116 --> 00:56:42,196
Speaker 2: came a few years later.

1005
00:56:42,316 --> 00:56:43,676
Speaker 1: You guys actually had to crack it.

1006
00:56:43,956 --> 00:56:45,476
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had to crack the whip.

1007
00:56:45,556 --> 00:56:48,156
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had a real whip, but that we had

1008
00:56:48,156 --> 00:56:51,316
Speaker 2: to take turns whipping each other. It was awful, you know.

1009
00:56:51,356 --> 00:56:53,996
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, chasing each other around in the parking

1010
00:56:54,036 --> 00:56:56,996
Speaker 3: lot with the bowl whip. You know, the things that

1011
00:56:57,276 --> 00:57:01,156
Speaker 3: really are worthwhile stick to stick out. And when you

1012
00:57:01,196 --> 00:57:05,076
Speaker 3: think about freedom of choice in general, that record really

1013
00:57:05,276 --> 00:57:06,076
Speaker 3: has lasted.

1014
00:57:06,396 --> 00:57:09,236
Speaker 2: Weren't an interesting time, Bob. It's like, you know, it's

1015
00:57:09,276 --> 00:57:12,756
Speaker 2: like kids now they have these phones where they go, Okay,

1016
00:57:12,796 --> 00:57:15,276
Speaker 2: I like this band, who did who influenced them? And

1017
00:57:15,276 --> 00:57:17,436
Speaker 2: then they go, oh, Nirvana, And then they check out

1018
00:57:17,516 --> 00:57:19,596
Speaker 2: Nirvana and then they go, well who influenced them? And

1019
00:57:19,596 --> 00:57:21,796
Speaker 2: they go, oh, they did covers of Devo songs and

1020
00:57:21,836 --> 00:57:24,796
Speaker 2: they were big fans of Devo and so then when

1021
00:57:24,836 --> 00:57:27,676
Speaker 2: they come to our shows they know the lyrics. It's like,

1022
00:57:27,716 --> 00:57:30,596
Speaker 2: I got kids out there that are singing along with me,

1023
00:57:30,676 --> 00:57:33,396
Speaker 2: and it's kind of it's kind of an interesting time.

1024
00:57:33,636 --> 00:57:35,956
Speaker 1: What about the music videos? Was there any at any

1025
00:57:35,996 --> 00:57:38,556
Speaker 1: point when you guys were making the albums you guys

1026
00:57:38,556 --> 00:57:40,836
Speaker 1: ever talk about how you wanted to present things visually.

1027
00:57:40,556 --> 00:57:45,396
Speaker 2: Or always oftentimes we had an idea. We would have

1028
00:57:45,476 --> 00:57:49,196
Speaker 2: an idea for something in a film, and then we'd say, well,

1029
00:57:49,316 --> 00:57:51,756
Speaker 2: let's write a song so we can do that. Whip

1030
00:57:51,756 --> 00:57:54,436
Speaker 2: It was almost kind of like that because we'd found

1031
00:57:54,476 --> 00:57:57,636
Speaker 2: some magazine that had some guy that was doing a

1032
00:57:57,676 --> 00:58:00,756
Speaker 2: whip tease and he was like, he was from Las

1033
00:58:00,876 --> 00:58:04,196
Speaker 2: Vegas and he would whip pieces of the clothes of

1034
00:58:04,236 --> 00:58:06,116
Speaker 2: his wife off, and we were like, what the hell

1035
00:58:06,276 --> 00:58:08,396
Speaker 2: is that? You know, we thought that was kind of

1036
00:58:08,516 --> 00:58:11,516
Speaker 2: but that got us thinking about whip it. Whipping it.

1037
00:58:11,676 --> 00:58:14,676
Speaker 3: And Mark is a fine artist as well as being

1038
00:58:14,676 --> 00:58:18,756
Speaker 3: a musician, and a highly accomplished fine artist, I might add,

1039
00:58:19,236 --> 00:58:22,956
Speaker 3: I think that we saw that see that energy, and

1040
00:58:22,996 --> 00:58:27,596
Speaker 3: also Jerry also a filmmaker as well as being a musician.

1041
00:58:27,796 --> 00:58:29,516
Speaker 3: I think we see a lot of that kind of

1042
00:58:29,636 --> 00:58:32,716
Speaker 3: energy in their work. And it's always been Devo has

1043
00:58:32,756 --> 00:58:35,796
Speaker 3: always been a visual, visual band.

1044
00:58:35,676 --> 00:58:38,036
Speaker 1: Which would have been really appealing to you. I imagine

1045
00:58:38,156 --> 00:58:39,716
Speaker 1: it would have been one of the things that we've.

1046
00:58:39,556 --> 00:58:41,396
Speaker 3: Come from photography as well.

1047
00:58:41,156 --> 00:58:45,156
Speaker 2: And right you were doing films like with Edi Edgwick.

1048
00:58:45,316 --> 00:58:49,076
Speaker 3: Yeah, Chile, Manhattan, Yeah, you were doing like it was.

1049
00:58:49,756 --> 00:58:52,436
Speaker 3: It was a psychedelic time, you know that. In the

1050
00:58:52,476 --> 00:58:55,276
Speaker 3: studio of the Record Plant was just an amazing place

1051
00:58:55,316 --> 00:58:58,676
Speaker 3: to work. It was really a fantasy of Gary Kelgren's

1052
00:58:58,916 --> 00:59:02,236
Speaker 3: who just passed away. It was a sort of wrote

1053
00:59:02,276 --> 00:59:05,476
Speaker 3: the story of the Record Plant, which was a psychedelic

1054
00:59:05,556 --> 00:59:10,556
Speaker 3: adventure par excellence. And inside that's akadelic space, and the

1055
00:59:10,676 --> 00:59:14,876
Speaker 3: place was organic and free, and once you got past

1056
00:59:14,916 --> 00:59:17,756
Speaker 3: the locked front door, you were in your own space.

1057
00:59:17,876 --> 00:59:20,836
Speaker 3: You were you could be who you were. Musicians just

1058
00:59:20,956 --> 00:59:23,636
Speaker 3: used to come down there at night, even if they

1059
00:59:23,636 --> 00:59:26,636
Speaker 3: weren't recording at that time, just to spend some time

1060
00:59:26,676 --> 00:59:29,516
Speaker 3: in the canteen and play with the pinball machine or

1061
00:59:29,556 --> 00:59:34,036
Speaker 3: stop into someone's session. It was a very closed and

1062
00:59:34,316 --> 00:59:37,276
Speaker 3: very safe place to work. And the boys could really

1063
00:59:37,316 --> 00:59:40,836
Speaker 3: be themselves there. And it wasn't a bunch of guys

1064
00:59:40,916 --> 00:59:44,036
Speaker 3: running around with short sleeve white shirts with pencil protectors.

1065
00:59:44,196 --> 00:59:46,756
Speaker 3: I mean, we're all there. There was a jacuzzi, people

1066
00:59:46,796 --> 00:59:50,716
Speaker 3: were easy, the pinballs machine were running. Stevie was learning

1067
00:59:50,716 --> 00:59:53,196
Speaker 3: how to play air hockey, and everybody said, oh, man,

1068
00:59:53,876 --> 00:59:57,276
Speaker 3: he's playing air hockey. Is he really blind? You know,

1069
00:59:57,356 --> 00:59:59,716
Speaker 3: because he could hear the puck moving on the table.

1070
00:59:59,876 --> 01:00:02,356
Speaker 3: You know, that's amazing, and he you know, the place

1071
01:00:02,556 --> 01:00:07,356
Speaker 3: was just a super permissive and very There were no

1072
01:00:07,556 --> 01:00:10,876
Speaker 3: sharp edges at the record Place in anyway, and I

1073
01:00:10,916 --> 01:00:13,316
Speaker 3: think it really stoked the boy's creativity.

1074
01:00:13,716 --> 01:00:13,796
Speaker 1: It.

1075
01:00:14,356 --> 01:00:18,396
Speaker 3: I think the studio itself was a musical instrument inhabited

1076
01:00:18,436 --> 01:00:21,996
Speaker 3: by many musicians at the same time. People used to

1077
01:00:22,036 --> 01:00:25,236
Speaker 3: walk into each other's sessions and feel perfectly free to

1078
01:00:25,396 --> 01:00:26,356
Speaker 3: be who they were.

1079
01:00:26,916 --> 01:00:31,476
Speaker 2: We shared our room with we we used the room

1080
01:00:31,636 --> 01:00:34,716
Speaker 2: at night when it was cheaper, but during the day,

1081
01:00:34,876 --> 01:00:38,036
Speaker 2: little Richard had had our room, and so we'd show

1082
01:00:38,116 --> 01:00:41,356
Speaker 2: up and he'd be leaving, and he always had good

1083
01:00:41,356 --> 01:00:43,236
Speaker 2: stories like, well, you know who ripped me off? You know,

1084
01:00:43,276 --> 01:00:45,996
Speaker 2: I'm black? That he had He was like really funny

1085
01:00:46,036 --> 01:00:48,836
Speaker 2: to listen to. But it was good energy, you know,

1086
01:00:48,876 --> 01:00:49,796
Speaker 2: to share a room with him.

1087
01:00:49,876 --> 01:00:51,276
Speaker 1: Did you ever hear what he was doing in there?

1088
01:00:51,436 --> 01:00:53,716
Speaker 2: Yeah? We heard, we heard his music.

1089
01:00:53,796 --> 01:00:55,756
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was he up to with that time?

1090
01:00:56,116 --> 01:00:58,196
Speaker 3: I'll tell you something. Those are days that it'll never

1091
01:00:58,276 --> 01:00:58,996
Speaker 3: be repeated.

1092
01:00:59,356 --> 01:01:02,036
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, boy, were they something else?

1093
01:01:02,076 --> 01:01:05,676
Speaker 3: I'll tell you. But here we are with this.

1094
01:01:05,796 --> 01:01:07,876
Speaker 1: I want to gloss over a little. You guys said, wait,

1095
01:01:07,876 --> 01:01:13,236
Speaker 1: you're sharing a room a little rich insanity to me. Well,

1096
01:01:13,436 --> 01:01:15,196
Speaker 1: I got to be phone friends with little Richard right

1097
01:01:15,196 --> 01:01:18,396
Speaker 1: before we die. Okay, just talking on the phone was

1098
01:01:18,436 --> 01:01:21,116
Speaker 1: bizarre enough, because you would just refer himself as mister

1099
01:01:21,156 --> 01:01:24,636
Speaker 1: Pennyman and would refer to Little Richard as a separate entity.

1100
01:01:25,036 --> 01:01:28,356
Speaker 2: Oh that's pretty good. I could see that. Well, little Richard,

1101
01:01:28,356 --> 01:01:30,116
Speaker 2: it's not an incredible.

1102
01:01:29,716 --> 01:01:32,316
Speaker 3: Well you know, wouldn't call him little hey, little How

1103
01:01:32,396 --> 01:01:35,476
Speaker 3: you doing you? Oh, mister h.

1104
01:01:36,116 --> 01:01:38,676
Speaker 1: Who were some of the other great characters that came

1105
01:01:38,716 --> 01:01:39,996
Speaker 1: through there while you were there? Oh?

1106
01:01:40,356 --> 01:01:41,596
Speaker 2: Everybody, everybody.

1107
01:01:41,916 --> 01:01:45,076
Speaker 3: All the eagles came through The Hotel California is written

1108
01:01:45,076 --> 01:01:48,516
Speaker 3: about the record plant that is the Hotel California.

1109
01:01:48,636 --> 01:01:48,956
Speaker 1: Wow.

1110
01:01:49,276 --> 01:01:50,996
Speaker 3: Yeah, I used to call them the beagles and they

1111
01:01:51,076 --> 01:01:55,676
Speaker 3: get all upset with me. That was very sacrilegious.

1112
01:01:56,436 --> 01:01:58,596
Speaker 1: It's a wild time at different times.

1113
01:01:58,796 --> 01:02:01,996
Speaker 3: I remember when we were recording she get the girl,

1114
01:02:02,556 --> 01:02:06,916
Speaker 3: the girl you want, Mark, She's just the girl? Yeah,

1115
01:02:07,036 --> 01:02:11,636
Speaker 3: she get the girl, right, Mark, She's just a girl. Yeah,

1116
01:02:11,876 --> 01:02:12,716
Speaker 3: she just a girl.

1117
01:02:12,996 --> 01:02:13,196
Speaker 1: Right.

1118
01:02:13,316 --> 01:02:18,436
Speaker 3: You would always swallow the sd of just I think

1119
01:02:18,476 --> 01:02:19,796
Speaker 3: we did it one hundred times.

1120
01:02:20,156 --> 01:02:22,036
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for making the record, guys, and thanks for

1121
01:02:23,116 --> 01:02:25,596
Speaker 1: time to talk about it and write about it.

1122
01:02:26,116 --> 01:02:28,836
Speaker 3: Yeah, well it's done now, it's over the edge.

1123
01:02:29,196 --> 01:02:31,516
Speaker 1: It's really good. It's really good. And I can't wait

1124
01:02:31,556 --> 01:02:33,996
Speaker 1: to hear it, you know, yeah, yeah.

1125
01:02:33,996 --> 01:02:36,156
Speaker 2: Like the book's great. I'd love I can't wait to

1126
01:02:36,156 --> 01:02:38,596
Speaker 2: hear it. Maybe we'll maybe we'll write a score to

1127
01:02:38,636 --> 01:02:40,836
Speaker 2: go behind it. How long is the the book?

1128
01:02:41,236 --> 01:02:43,516
Speaker 3: The book is about ten hours.

1129
01:02:43,636 --> 01:02:44,276
Speaker 2: We could do it.

1130
01:02:44,596 --> 01:02:45,716
Speaker 3: Wow, we'll score it.

1131
01:02:46,476 --> 01:02:46,996
Speaker 2: We'll score it.

1132
01:02:47,316 --> 01:02:47,676
Speaker 1: Amazing.

1133
01:02:47,876 --> 01:02:50,996
Speaker 3: I would love to make another DeVault kind of whip

1134
01:02:51,036 --> 01:02:54,956
Speaker 3: it with you, guys. You know, you never know one

1135
01:02:54,996 --> 01:02:59,676
Speaker 3: record up who knows, don't, don't say nothing of Our

1136
01:02:59,676 --> 01:03:02,636
Speaker 3: friendship has lasted a long time, and that's for the

1137
01:03:02,716 --> 01:03:05,236
Speaker 3: great reason, and I'm just glad it has.

1138
01:03:08,316 --> 01:03:10,236
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed that Common Station, be sure to check

1139
01:03:10,316 --> 01:03:14,716
Speaker 1: out Robert Margelov's new audiobook Shaping Sounds, Stevie Wonder debo,

1140
01:03:14,836 --> 01:03:18,556
Speaker 1: The Sink Revolution in My Life Behind Music, Use Code

1141
01:03:18,596 --> 01:03:21,396
Speaker 1: Sounds twenty five, That's All Capital so o U and

1142
01:03:21,476 --> 01:03:25,076
Speaker 1: DS two five at pushkin dot Fm Slash Shaping Sounds

1143
01:03:25,076 --> 01:03:28,516
Speaker 1: to save twenty five percent on the audio book. Be

1144
01:03:28,556 --> 01:03:30,676
Speaker 1: sure to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record

1145
01:03:30,676 --> 01:03:33,596
Speaker 1: Podcast to see our video interviews, and be sure to

1146
01:03:33,636 --> 01:03:36,836
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. Broken

1147
01:03:36,876 --> 01:03:39,276
Speaker 1: Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing

1148
01:03:39,276 --> 01:03:42,116
Speaker 1: and help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer

1149
01:03:42,236 --> 01:03:46,076
Speaker 1: is Ben Tolladay. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries.

1150
01:03:46,276 --> 01:03:48,716
Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider

1151
01:03:48,756 --> 01:03:52,316
Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

1152
01:03:52,396 --> 01:03:55,156
Speaker 1: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four

1153
01:03:55,276 --> 01:03:57,516
Speaker 1: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple

1154
01:03:57,596 --> 01:04:01,076
Speaker 1: podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show, please remember

1155
01:04:01,116 --> 01:04:03,196
Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app.

1156
01:04:03,476 --> 01:04:10,036
Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. Shot

1157
01:04:10,116 --> 01:04:10,236
Speaker 1: Up