WEBVTT - The Making of Friday the 13th: The Game 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:12.520 Technology with tech Stuff from dot com. Hey there, and 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:16.880 welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, executive producer Jonathan 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.560 strick Lind at how stuff works dot com. Happy Friday 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:24.760 the third teen. This episode's originally going out on October 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:29.560 twenty seventeen, and I was originally just going to publish 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:33.720 a regular tech Stuff episode, but then my producer Extraordinariy 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:37.040 Ramsey came up to me and said, Hey, I put 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.280 some feelers out with some of the folks who are 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:45.960 behind the development for Friday the game. Would you be 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:48.479 interested in talking with them so we could have a 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:50.800 special Friday that thirteenth episode. And I thought, I've never 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:54.800 done a Friday the thirteenth episode. I've done Halloween episodes, 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:58.120 and I've done other holiday episodes, but never Friday that thirteen. 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:01.400 And I thought, this is an opportunity I cannot pass up. 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.840 And so what you were about to hear is an 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.440 interview that I conducted with Chuck brun Gard, the CEO 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:12.560 of l Phonic, that's the company that developed Friday the 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.080 thirteenth the game, and he was very forthcoming and very 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.760 straightforward about the development of Friday the thirteenth the game, 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:24.759 the challenges that is company faced and the reactions of that. 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:29.080 I mean, it's it's a very honest interview, which I appreciate. 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:31.440 So I hope you guys enjoy this and I will 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:33.760 join you again on the other side of the interview. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.440 I'd like to welcome Chuck brung Gart to the show. Chuck, 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:42.000 thank you so much for joining tech Stuff. And Chuck 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.160 is a co founder of el Phonic LLC. It's a 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:50.040 company that developed Friday thirteenth the game. Obviously that's uh, 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.600 you know, there's the relationship between game developers and game publishers, 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.000 something that I think a lot of people who aren't 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:58.400 really familiar with the way video games work, they kind 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.760 of conflate the two. Of course, they're some companies that 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.680 are both developers and publishers, and that makes it even 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.520 more confusing. But you're the guys who actually went and 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:13.120 started making a game that now is Friday the thirte 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:17.079 As I understand it, when you were first looking at 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:21.240 developing a game in this space, uh, it was it 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:25.600 was certainly inspired by properties like Friday the thirteenth or 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.920 something like Sleepaway Camp, but it was from what I understand, 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.560 it was a kind of an original. I p at 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:38.840 that point. The licensing agreement came later. Is that correct, Yes, definitely. 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.640 And really kind of how it all started was, um, 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:45.560 you know Gun Media, who's our publisher on this project. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.400 They actually kind of came up with the original concept 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.400 and it was, you know, a game that they always 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.440 wanted to make that they were kicking around. And I 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:56.919 remember I got the call from West Suser CEO one 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:59.919 day and said, hey, I'm you know, looking for a 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.880 developer to develop this game, and you know it's uh, 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.720 it's called Summer Camps. And the first thing I thought 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:08.360 of was I was like, well, I don't know if 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:10.320 you did too much research about us, but we don't 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:12.880 make kids games, so I'm not sure if we can 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:14.960 help you. And he's like, well, let me show you 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:18.840 this trailer. It's actually called Slasher Volume one Summer Camp. 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.120 And I think immediately I got it, like you know 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.919 it it it kind of oozed Friday the thirteen, even 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.000 though it wasn't yet that um it was, you know, 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.800 it was called Summer Camp at the time, and um, 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.720 but they brought on a lot of the original people 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:37.960 from Friday thirteenth, like um, you know, like Harry Manfredini 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:42.040 and uh. Um, you know, like just kind of all 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.360 the different guys, Tom Fazzini and I think they you know, 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.200 they were all talking about making this game and it 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.960 was really just a game that they wanted to make 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:54.080 from growing up and watching these films. And uh so 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:56.120 I think that was always the tricky part, is like, 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:58.800 you know, what do we do uh for the killer 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:01.720 um if we can't really you know, have the hockey 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.280 mask and all that. So so yeah, when we were 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.960 approached eventually it kind of all made sense and really 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.920 tied together that we were originally moving forward on a 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:15.160 prototype and had you know, put out some some material 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.600 that we were kind of showing early of what Summer 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:21.640 Camp was to hopefully build interests within the consumers in 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.039 the press. Um. But then that led to uh, you know, 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:29.680 Sean Cunningham and his estates seen it and approaching Gun 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:33.040 and us about it, and it was such a clever idea. 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.760 It's it's an example of a type of gameplay, the 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:41.680 asymmetric approach, And for people who are not familiar with that, 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:46.440 asymmetric means that you typically have at least two teams 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:50.640 or or two parties of players. Uh and in this case, 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.080 we're talking about a single player taking on the role 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:56.440 of Jason Vorhees, obviously the antagonist of the Friday the 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:02.080 Thirteenth series, the iconic character who through parts two and 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:07.440 on is the main antagonist. Obviously, if anyone is listening, 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.840 I know Mrs Vorhees was the bad guy in part one. 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.000 Everybody knows that. But from part two forward we have Jason, 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:19.640 and asymmetric means that you have one person acting as 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:24.360 Jason Vorhees, you have the other players acting as camp counselors, 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:30.279 and the the goals are for one side to escape. 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.080 That would be the counselors to get away or potentially 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.960 even to take down Jason, although that is particularly difficult, 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:41.400 as is warranted by the mythology of the movies. Of course, 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.039 Jason's goal is to eliminate as many, if not all, 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:49.200 the counselors as he possibly can. And UH, to me, 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.960 it's interesting because it combines elements of gameplay that I 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:57.760 find really compelling. You have the competitive aspect of Jason 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:00.359 versus the counselors, but you also have co up with 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:02.560 the point of the counselors. You know, if they if 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:06.120 they work together, they stand a much better chance of 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.600 having success. At least for some of them than they 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.640 would if they all go Lone Wolf. Yeah, definitely. And 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.840 I think what was so crazy about the concept is 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.200 when I first heard it, I'm like, oh, that's that 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.320 just works right. It works in and you know, almost 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.640 a real life scenario where uh what, you know, everyone 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:27.200 wants to know would you survive a horror film? Like 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:29.520 what would you do? And I think early tests it 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.120 was kind of funny because, um, you know, Jason is 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:36.000 so powerful and that's definitely intentional, and I think the 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:40.320 the asymmetrical aspects behind it. We worked on other asymmetrical 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:41.960 games in the past and that was one of the 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.800 reasons why Gunn reached out to us. Um, but we 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:47.680 didn't really um you know, a lot of times it 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:51.720 was trying to make it balanced, and you know, trying 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.640 to make one person or one thing against multiple people 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:59.560 balanced was very tricky and it could also sometimes ruin 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:00.960 a bit of the fun. But when we kind of 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.600 threw that out the window, I mean, there's still balance 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.000 that goes into this stuff. But when we realize, like 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:09.440 you know, Jason is going to be able to take 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:12.400 on um, you know, more than one person at a time, 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.720 it really started fitting, and it kind of essentially created 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:20.559 almost a few games where you're either the powerful Jason 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:24.240 hunting people down and and killing them and um, you know, 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.280 stocking and kind of just all the different elements involved 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:30.040 in that. And then as counselors, you're you're getting away 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.920 and you kind of have those big horror elements and 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.840 everything like that where you know, you're you're scared, you're 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.520 trying to hide, and really just saw everyone kind of 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:43.040 playing into what happens in horror films, like when you know, 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:44.840 you're always like, oh, don't go in that room alone, 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.440 or you know, if you're with your friends, or you're 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:49.760 gonna stick around and like help them, but you know, 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:52.480 everyone just kind of scatters and runs all different directions 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.240 and that's usually when when all the bad stuff happened. 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.040 So it was really, uh, it was really interesting because 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:02.080 you have the human element and I think that um, 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:05.160 that power, you know, the power struggle or power balance. 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:09.200 It really worked well with a symmetrical gameplay and I think, 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:11.760 you know, there's so many things you could kind of 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:14.760 apply that to you when it comes to either other 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.520 films or other ideas as well. Oh sure, and and 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.440 it's interesting. It's very in a way. It's affirming, in 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.840 another way terrifying to see that the tropes of the 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.600 horror film play out in actual gameplay, because I've I've 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:31.720 I've watched more than my share of let's plays in 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.440 this in this game, and I've played a couple where 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:39.160 as you say, it is more frequently than not. As 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.439 soon as the game starts, you just see the kels 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.360 are scatter like ants, and immediately you're thinking, like, well, 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.400 we're we're all gonna get picked off one by one now, 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:52.080 so that's gonna be interesting. I am a little curious 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.400 about this because, as you say, you know, you you 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.840 didn't have to worry. I mean, obviously, balance is always 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.040 something you've got to think about. Otherwise, if you create 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:05.160 a game where it is impossible for one team to win, 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.360 then really you've just created a murder simulator. There's not 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:10.800 really any way to to to get out of it. 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.320 So you have to figure out, all right, well, what 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.520 are the what are the parameters here for victory on 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.920 both sides? And uh, and how can we make sure 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.400 that if you are not the killer, that you're still 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.679 having a good time. Can you talk a little bit 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.319 about what that process was like about just kind of 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:32.800 finding where that balance was. Yeah, I mean, you know, uh, 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.720 to be to be honest, I feel like there's a 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:39.360 bit of a pendulum swing, um, you know, and even 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.600 uh you know sometimes little Patch and we think we're 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:44.880 we we take a lot of feedback in from the 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.960 community what they like, what they don't like, so UM, 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.560 you know, I guess to back up and kind of 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.680 start from the beginning. We did prototype really UM early 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:56.880 on and I think you know, the biggest thing we 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.000 found is it was really fun to play Jason, but 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.640 it wasn't fun to play counselors. UM. So we spent 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:06.000 a lot of time on the counselor angle. And you know, uh, 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:07.959 we have a lot of things like fear, and the 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.559 more you get scared, there's things that happened, the screen darkened, 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.280 you tend to lose your hud. Um. You know, there's 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:19.000 just an alteration that goes on, um like visually as well. 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.839 And then there's some audio cues that happened, uh to 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:25.520 kind of intensify everything. And we have this tripping mechanic 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.120 where you know, the more scared you were, the more 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.040 you attend the trip and stumble and that was you know, 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.079 a very delicate mechanic because it was very frustrating in 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.559 the beginning when we first tilt it. So you know, 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.240 you're running around and then you have this thing kind 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.000 of constantly taking control of your characters. So we made 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.240 this figure out how do we give that effect that 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.200 not make it as annoying. So um So there were 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.440 some levers to kind of pull there and and you 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.640 know that'll balance back and forth um on that end. 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:54.760 But it's just you know, in the beginning, it just 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.120 wasn't great to be a counselor because Jason was your 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:00.400 sails with powered But then we kind I've got the 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:02.360 counselors still in right, but then it wasn't fun to 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.160 be season So we had to figure out how to 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.400 kind of just go back and forth. And it was 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:09.079 really just a lot of play tests, you know. I mean, 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:12.840 you know, iteration is key in games, play test teams key, 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.240 so he kind of went through that process and play 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.719 tested a lot, and you know, all these kind of 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.160 took feedback. There was we brought in some people early 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.040 on and had them play the game and kind of 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.160 got feedback from them. And the initial reaction as everyone 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.280 really loved the game so that was great. But once 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:32.480 you know, they spent a little more time with it, 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.960 we're able to kind of identify the problems. Um. But yeah, 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:38.080 and even today though, I think we're still kind of 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:41.680 potentially swinging the pendulum because well, you know, there'll be 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.600 some really good ideas and thoughts if the community brings 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.240 up and then just thinks that we've sat was for 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.760 a while during our play test, and you know, we'll 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.320 kind of alter some numbers, and then sometimes that goes 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:54.520 out and people are like, oh no, like you know, 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.640 now Jason isn't fun to play, or you know, and 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.800 and you know, now he's too over powered and a 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:02.520 lot more fun to play, but it's too hard to 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.719 be a counselor so it always is a bit of, um, 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.520 kind of massaging to make it right. And you know, 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:10.720 for the most part, I think we're we find a 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.280 good balance between the two. But you know, I think 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.680 everyone kind of has their own opinions, and sometimes even 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.760 our opinions changed the longer we kind of sit with 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:21.800 the game. So it is kind of interesting. And I 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.040 wouldn't tell you like we you have it exactly right, 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.240 but um, but you know, for the most part, I 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:31.200 mean there's a lot that goes into what makes it, uh, 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:34.560 you know, kind of fun as it is now well, 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:36.720 and I think it's really interesting. I mean, you bring 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.400 up a great point in the idea of massaging this 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.440 game and being able to tweak things and alter things. 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:48.000 It points to a very different landscape today than games 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.640 just ten years ago, where once the game shipped, that 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.600 was pretty much it, right. You didn't really have the 0:12:54.640 --> 0:13:01.319 opportunity to create a lot of patches or updates, and so, uh, 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.800 you know, if you if you created a game that 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:09.560 that had some mechanic that apparently just just displeased players, 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.400 then you were kind of stuck with it. But now 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.320 you're in a world where if there's good parts and 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.640 bad parts, one thing is that you can go back 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:19.680 in and you can take in this feedback and you 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:23.600 can make adjustments to the game and thus hopefully create 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.080 a better experience for players so that they're having more fun, 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.800 or or you're adding in elements so that the game 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:34.000 is constantly fresh for players. But of course, the flip 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.599 side of that is that you are you are fostering 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:38.959 a game much longer. You know, it's not that it 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.200 ships out the door and you immediately turned to the 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.880 next thing. So is that is that something that is 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.680 I assume it's very different from your perspective, From a 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.960 player's perspective. I love having a game where I'm constantly 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:55.400 getting h tweaks and updates and it is refreshing the 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:57.200 game and it makes me makes me want to play 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.000 it again because I want to see what the new 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.520 experience is like. I'm not sure what it's like on 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:06.199 your side of though. Yeah, though it's I mean I 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.959 would say, um, you know, to be honest, it's it's 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.920 a blessing and a curse, right, I mean, I think, um, 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.400 we're you know, we were a small team that worked 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.800 on this. We're a small company and um, you know, 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:19.760 there was a certain amount of people internally that we're 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:23.720 on this project, and um, you know, so being a 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:28.040 small team, it's it's tough to um continue to roll 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.440 out content and you know, luckily, with the success of 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.600 the game, we've been able to grow. But you know, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.440 when we're kind of getting towards launch, it's like, Okay, well, 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.600 we know we're gonna need to keep working on this 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.520 and we're gonna get feedback from the community, and we're 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.080 you know, we're uh, you know, guns like five people. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.480 They're getting a little bigger now. But uh and I 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:50.680 think we had about you know, twenty people on the 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.080 game as well internally here, so we weren't like with 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:57.800 a big publisher where they could have hundreds of people 0:14:57.800 --> 0:14:59.480 that could go at it, and you get all these 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:03.360 different studios and um, you know, people at the publishing 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:05.880 company to kind of give a lot of feedback and 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.480 kind of help with certain areas. So you know, we 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:10.600 kind of knew that we were throwing this thing out 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:12.840 there and we would get some feedback, but we were 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:16.200 committed to supporting that. So it is it is awesome 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.160 from our standpoint because it's like we got to launch 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:21.400 the game, people liked it. I mean, obviously there was 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.240 issues when it launched, um but for the most part, 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:25.920 people really liked it. They had a lot of fun. 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.200 We knew, uh, you know, moving forward that we would 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.160 kind of fix and address these issues and constantly spend 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.960 time updating adding new content into it. But it was 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.720 a bit of a growing process for us as well. UM. 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.160 And really it's just it's it's interesting because um, I 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.600 started before this actually in the music industry, and it 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.520 was nice because when you finished an album, you know, 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.520 there's so much work you put into it, and then 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:51.960 you kind of you know, it goes off to like 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.080 mastering and then you know, the artist tested them kind 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:56.920 of take it from there and promoted. But we were 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.680 more behind the scene, so we could just say, okay, 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.080 we're we're done. That's awesome. They could go to sleep 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.040 at night. It's either gonna fell well maybe you know, 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:06.880 is a hit or maybe not, and then it's kind 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.440 of onto the next thing. But you know, with this 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.960 kind of being a game as a service, we're constantly 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.160 updating it, constantly thinking about it. You know, there's some 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:20.200 night where you can't sleep just due to some issues 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.160 you might run into or issues that end up out there. 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.880 And then there's other times where you can't sleep because 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.920 you're like, how do I make this even even more better? Um? 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.000 You know, how do I keep refining it? So? You know, so, 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.160 like I said, I think it's a it's been a 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.960 big learning experience for us in the team, and it's 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.120 you know, we've been um kind of getting into the 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.720 groove now is really kind of supporting it and turning 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.360 around content and patches and updates and all that but 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.560 you know, something that we had to really work into 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:50.880 and we kind of as a company had had to 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:52.800 learn to work that way. And we brought on some 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.320 really talented uh developers um here at the Phonic that 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.520 actually had experience with that at other company needs, so 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.800 they're able to kind of help us shift our company 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.959 towards that direction. Um. But even before then, I mean 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.880 I would say, like even our early games or work 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.719 for higher games we did, you know, there's still were 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.399 um online multiplayer games, so they were still updated and 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.240 kind of uh you know, move through, but nothing really 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:22.480 to this level. UM. So yeah, it was definitely a 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:24.920 learning experience, but it but it's great. I mean it's 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.719 allows you you know, if the game wasn't that successful, 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.760 it kind of allows us to you know, support it 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:35.560 still until the community kind of eventually starts dying down. Um. 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:37.359 But in this case, it kind of allows us to 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:39.639 support it a lot longer and put a lot of 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.960 things in there that originally were like this would be 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.720 great to have, but you know it's not in the 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.400 budget or the scope at the time. So I think 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.040 that's as cool as we get to really always kind 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:53.119 of put those ideas that um, you know, games in 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.280 the past to kind of leave on the cutting room floor, 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:59.040 and and that kind of leads us into You've talked 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:04.240 about community, and there's clearly of a very vocal and 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.880 and active community in the Fright the Third the game. 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.080 I mean, like I said, I've watched lots of let's 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.760 plays in this as well as well as playing the game. 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.360 I was one of the backers of Fright the thirteam 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:20.560 full full disclosure. Yeah, so you guys had a very 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:25.760 successful crowdfunding campaign, which I assume was very gratifying because 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:27.800 it showed that there were players out there who were 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:32.480 feeling just as strongly about this concept of, uh of 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:38.120 really diving into this world of classic slasher horror kind 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:42.199 of fiction and bringing it into a a you know, 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.080 a playable experience. Uh. Can you talk a little bit 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.679 about the the you know, how that how that worked 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.040 when you did the crowdfunding and sort of the feedback 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.159 you got, And I assumed that was pretty energizing to 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:55.720 the group to see that kind of level of enthusiasm 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.440 before you you even had a game to ship. Yeah, No, 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.880 it was really awesome because I think, you know, there's 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.399 a lot of work that goes into you know, making 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.320 a Kickstarter and are doing Kickstarter and just you know, 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.560 all the videos and all the content we have to 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.240 make to keep people engaged and to really have them 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.160 buy into our vision. It's like, you know, we all 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.160 have it in our heads, but how do we show 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:21.240 the community of people of that. So. Um, So we 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.040 were really you know, really nervous going into it, like, oh, 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.760 this are people gonna gravitate towards this? I mean, you know, 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:31.880 luckily we had Friday their Teeth in the franchise behind us, 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:36.240 but it's really tricky because we just didn't know. Um, 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.920 we felt like people would be into this and were 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:41.199 as much as we were, but we just didn't know. 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.080 So when a lot of people you know started kind 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.080 of coming out and saying, hey, this is great, this 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.800 is exactly what we're looking for and really supporting us 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:51.760 and backing us, I mean, it was it was an 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.840 amazing feeling, but it was it was a crazy, um, 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.840 you know, months kind of thirty day roller coaster ride 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:02.000 of trying to make sure. Yeah, I mean, we had 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.919 an initial plan and then I think you know, after 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.880 we launched, probably three or four days into it, um, 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:11.760 we still kind of executed on that plan, but there 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:13.800 was a lot more we started doing because I think 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.720 that's when we started building a community. There became a 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.600 lot of questions and you know, people wanted to understand 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.199 how the game played more and what things are going 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:24.760 to look like and how it's going to run and 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.040 work and all that, and so I think it, um, 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.840 you know, it was pretty crazy, but I think it 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:36.080 became very I guess a lot more work than we 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:38.040 figured it would be because we wanted to try to 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:42.240 answer all those questions and um, continue to show people 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:46.080 we're building. Obviously we knew that would help the crowd funding, 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.240 but we also wanted to just have fans really buy 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.919 into the vision. So um, so yeah, it was. It 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:55.040 was a great experience. Um, really cool, I mean it, 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:57.399 you know, but also at the same time, it was 0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.800 a ton of work. And like Randy and those guys 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:04.000 that on all really put so much into a um 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.840 as well as they just kind of really stayed on 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:10.000 top of everything in and made sure that everything was 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.720 kind of laying smoothly and that people were getting a 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:16.640