1 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: A single mother of two who coincidentally donates her time 2 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: trying to locate missing people goes missing herself. I mean, 3 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: see Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you for being 4 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and series M one eleven. 5 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: Where Is Andrea? First of all, take a listen to this. 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: January seventh is Andrea's birthday. Her sister and friends spent 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: New Year's Day out searching for any sign of her 8 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: in a new documentary recently aired, which her father says 9 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: has sparked more interest in her case. Despite the rainy weather, 10 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: the search went on. This time. They focused on Ottoman 11 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: Park to Belmar Avenue. Her sister Aaron was the last 12 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: one to see her alive. He was calling her friends 13 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: after she left my house. She wasn't ready to go 14 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: to sleep. She was wanting to stay up and like 15 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: hang out. Joining me an all star panel of guests 16 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: to make sense of what we know right now. But 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: first I want to go to special guests. Mike Knabel, 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: this is Andrew's dad and Aaron Knabel, her sister. Thank 19 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: you so much from being with us. Mister Knabel, tell 20 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: me when you first learned that you're a daughter. Andrea 21 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: was missing I believe it was about a day end. 22 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: I got a call from Aaron and she just informed 23 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: me that Andrea wasn't answering. I personally wasn't overly concerned 24 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: at that point, because when she's not watching her children, 25 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: someday she hangs out with friends for a day or two. 26 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: So it got a little more serious after day two 27 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,279 Speaker 1: or three, when Aaron told me that her friends hadn't 28 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: seen her either, and that's when we decided to follow 29 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: the missing person's report. When did it really sink into you, 30 00:01:55,080 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: mister Knabel, that she was gone? I think it was 31 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: the first major search that we had at the firehouse 32 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: when the National networks came in. So within the week 33 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: I was beginning to have some very bad feelings in 34 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: thinking that we may not get her back at all, 35 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: and it was very, very disturbing, and that was really 36 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: the serious beginning. Aaron Knabel also with me, this is 37 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,399 Speaker 1: Andrew's sister. Aaron, thank you for being with us amidst 38 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: all of this. When did you first believe your sister 39 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: was missing? The very next morning, when my mother messaged 40 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: us asking if any of us had spoken with Andrea, 41 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: I thought, well, it's still kind of early she might 42 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: be still asleep. But then later on in the afternoon, 43 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: when my mom said she still could not reach Andrea, 44 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: that's when I really started checking around because she always 45 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: would check in with us and talk to us. So, 46 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: like Dad said, it took a couple of days for 47 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: her best friend to answer me, and that's when I 48 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: was extremely concerned. So that was August seventeenth. That's when 49 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: like the alarm bells were going off, and I talked 50 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: to Dad and we agreed that I need to follow 51 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: a police report, and that's when I started making it 52 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: public on social media that she was missing. What do 53 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: you mean taking at public on social media? That's basically 54 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: like in the beginning, I would make phone calls and 55 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: I would make texts, Hey, hey have you seen Andrew. 56 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: It's all her closest friends, all my family. When her 57 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: best friend, like the person that she normally stayed with, 58 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: finally answered me, that's when I just started posting it 59 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 1: for everybody in the world to see it on social 60 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: media because I was desperate at that point. That was 61 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: after I made the police report. What was going through 62 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: your mind when you were making police reports and contacting 63 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: all of her friends trying to find her, Well, to me, 64 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: it's hard for you to can really comprehend the gravity 65 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: of the situation. So I was still in the mindset like, 66 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: Andrew is probably fine. She is she going to be 67 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: mad at me for calling the police and saying this 68 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: about her public I was really worried I was going 69 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: to hurt her feelings. I still thought she's probably fine, Like, like, 70 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: you just don't think that this is real and it's 71 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: really happening. What is that phenomena? To doctor Sherry Schwartz, 72 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: joining us forensic psychologist at panther Mitigation dot com, and 73 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: she's the author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and 74 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: Psychology Intersect Where our minds. For instance, when I learned 75 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: my fiance had been murdered, have been killed, I thought, Oh, 76 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: he's in a car wreck, and if I get to him, 77 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: I can save him. That's what I thought, yea, even 78 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: though they said he's gone, he's just sad. What is 79 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: a phenomena? It's a protective mechanism, Nancy. It's when it's 80 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: too much for us to bear, and so we need 81 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: to feel like we have some power, some control, because 82 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: that's what helps us maintain our equilibrium and our ability 83 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: to manage the trauma. I wish you'd take a listen 84 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: to our friend less Trent at Inside Edition. This woman 85 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: who has dedicated her life to finding miss people is 86 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: now missing herself. Hello, my name is Andrea Knabel. Thirty 87 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: seven year old Andrea Knabel was last seen two weeks ago, 88 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: leaving her sister's house in Louisville on foot in the 89 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: middle of the night. Her family says she was upset 90 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: and going through a rough patch. The more time that 91 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 1: guess is, the more hoorry that this isn't And maybe 92 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: that was the last time i was going to see her. 93 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: So I'm very worried. Now they are passing out flyers 94 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: in an urgent search for the mom of two boys. 95 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: I'm hoping that she didn't take a ride with someone 96 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: to go to someone else's house and never made it 97 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: and got into the wrong car. Andrea is a prominent 98 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: volunteer with the national organization Missing in America, which assists 99 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: law enforcement locating missing persons. I've looked at the map 100 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: and it's about thirteen miles away from here. This is 101 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: Andrea five months ago, looking for a missing person in Ohio. 102 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: Now she's the one the group is searching for she 103 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: is well aware of how a missing person disappeared. She 104 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: would know how to disappear if she chose to. Do 105 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: you think it's possible she staged this for the attention. 106 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: I have not ruled out anything. I find that very 107 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: difficult to believe that she would be this gone, this 108 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: long with her two boys eight and ten that she 109 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: adored in worship. Joining me right now. Special guest journalists 110 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: out of Cleveland, Ohio who has covered this case. You 111 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: can find them at Mark Oprey at dot com. Op 112 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: r e A Mark o'prey at Mark. Thank you for 113 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: being with us. Tell us night, yes, sir, or tell 114 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: us about the night that Andrea goes missing. What do 115 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: we know? We know a lot. I mean there's I 116 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: think we know they're primarily two sources regarding that that timeline. 117 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: The first one comes from detectives the local police department, 118 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: and the second one comes from mainly two private investigators, 119 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: the Leonard brothers who were get a private investigation firm 120 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: called Locators and who are a big part of Andrea's 121 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: story as well, especially Tracy Leonard. But what we know 122 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: is that around nine o'clock nine to fifty on August twelve, 123 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, Andrea was dropped off at a local hospital 124 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: for what seems to be an exema issue. M she 125 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: arrives back roughly, let's say, two hours later, at what 126 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: kind of issue was it? Did you say it's it's 127 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: it's it's believed to be the common perception of what 128 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: happened is Andrea had an issue with exema. Okay, and 129 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: that's something that Mike and Eric can maybe tell you 130 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: more about. But um, this is something she batted a 131 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: lot um. But Andrew Is eventually dropped back off at 132 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: her mother's home where she was staying. Uh and on 133 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: Chiquity wrote around eleven thirty four, and I don't know 134 00:07:58,200 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: how far you want me to go into this, but 135 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: you know, she eventually leaves Chickade due to a a 136 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: sort of increasing site among her sister Sarah and her 137 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: sister's fiance, a man named Ethan Bates. I can go 138 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: through the timeline, but that's sort of where this begins. 139 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: Where she leads on foot to a sit called sin Castle, 140 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: which is where Aaron is staying. I think this is 141 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: really interesting because this is all that happening in a 142 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: neighborhood where the entire family grew up and knows extremely well. 143 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: So it's within an area. So it's within an area 144 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: that they know it's their neighborhood. Guys, take a listen 145 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: to our cut eight our friends at wa V three 146 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: while thousands vanish in the US every day. People who 147 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: know thirty seven year old Andrea Knabel say, something's wrong here. 148 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 1: She is an amazing person. She's a great mom, she's 149 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: a beautiful person, very personable. Here she is helping to 150 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: locate people, and she comes up missing herself. Private investigator 151 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: Tracy Leonard tells Way three News the mother of two, 152 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: who volunteers for the National search group Missing in America, 153 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: was last seen between one to two am August thirteenth, 154 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: leaving a relative's home on foot in the four thousand 155 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: block of Fincastle in Ottoman Park. Super great girl. She 156 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: helped me locate a missing teen about a year and 157 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: a half ago. Leonard and friend of thirty years Mauritia Kidd, 158 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: says Knabel had a recent round of bad luck, which 159 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: included being laid off her job and her car getting 160 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: totaled in a hit and run. Knabele used her phone 161 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: minutes after leaving the house, but hasn't been heard from since. 162 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: So right there, Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 163 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and Starve 164 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: and you hit series on iHeart bodybacks with Joe Scott Morgan. 165 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, right there, we've got her place with that 166 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: cell phone call, it's late at night and she sets off. 167 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: It's basically down the street from her home. It's her 168 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: family's neighborhood. How could she go missing just like that? Yeah, 169 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: isn't that interesting? You're in this kind of densely populated area. 170 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: This is not like you're out in the stick somewhere, Nancy. 171 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: So you've you've got her phone that's pinging off of 172 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: a local Yeah, this is Louisville, Kentucky. Yeah. Yeah, And 173 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: so you've you've got this area country beautiful. Yeah, it 174 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: absolutely is. And so you can definitively pinpoint, within a 175 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: reasonable degree of certainty, where she was last located when 176 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: that phone pinged off of that tower. My question is 177 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: is that what kind of data points do they have 178 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: after that, you know, the movement of the phone or 179 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: what she separated from her phone at some point time 180 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: where you have it in a static location and maybe 181 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: she moved off from it, or did somebody take the 182 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: phone from exactly. Mark o'prey joining me journalist on the 183 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 1: case from the very beginning, he has covered the story 184 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: extensively for narratively, Mark, Isn't it true? There was about 185 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: one thirty am. She had been visiting with these friends 186 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: and she was heading to her mom's house. She comes 187 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: out of the house, she uses the cell phone on 188 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: the way to her mother's on foot, and she's asking 189 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: for a ride. Isn't that true? Yeah, that happens around 190 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: So the official timeline from the police department says that 191 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: she arrived home from around one fifty four am to 192 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: her mother's Is that right? That is correct? Yes? But 193 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: what I find interesting is that, and this is where 194 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: this is why I think this case is so difficult 195 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: and so extensive, is that she arrives home to two 196 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 1: people who, at first, according to the private I guess 197 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: Tracy Leonard, first deny that they knew she arrived home. 198 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: Because I'm referring to Ethan Bateson and her sister Sarah, 199 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: whether that's true, not that Wait, wait, wait, let's analyze 200 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: what you just said. I find that highly interesting, curious 201 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: as well. Let's go to Mike Enable. This is Andrew's 202 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: father and Aaron her sister. Very often, I'll be in 203 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: the back of the house with my twins doing something. 204 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: We'll be in the backyard, or we'll be playing basketball 205 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: in the front yard something, and my husband will come 206 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: home from Mark and I don't even know he's home, 207 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: and he will have been home an hour and a 208 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: half before I know, and I just come in and 209 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: stumble on him. I don't find it out of the 210 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: realm of possibility that both things could be true. I 211 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: had a judge, oldest judge in the courthouse, and part 212 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 1: of his instructions were to the jury, it is your 213 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 1: duty to make all witnesses speak the truth, imputing perjury 214 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 1: on no one. In other words, why does this story 215 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,719 Speaker 1: why do these have to be false and mutually exclusive? 216 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: Couldn't she have made it home and somebody in the 217 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: family didn't as she came in. Isn't that? Isn't that possible? Knabel? 218 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: I think it is possible, And there has been a 219 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: timeline adjudgment the bombshelf situation, and that we discovered that 220 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: she did make it back to the house, but then 221 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: she left in about two blocks away. We show her 222 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: at a different area for a certain period of time, 223 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: or at least her phone was. We did not know 224 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: she was separated from her phone. Minute. Wait a minute, 225 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: So after she got home to her mom's house, she 226 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: left again, and I did tell it to the Lolibal 227 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: Police Department as well. To Aaron Knabel, I keep hearing 228 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: about her being separated from her her phone. Is that correct? 229 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: Has her phone been found? Her phone's not found, it's 230 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: missing as well. Why do we think she was separated 231 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: from it or do we No? The thing is we 232 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: just we can only tell by her phone movements what 233 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: happened that night. So yeah, like Dad's point is basically 234 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: that it was either her with her phone or just 235 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 1: your phone. We don't it could be either one. Really. 236 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick joining me, a California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. 237 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: She's the host of Today with Doctor Wendy KCBQ, San Diego, 238 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: and you can find her at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. 239 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: Jump in, Wendy. Yeah, you know, boyd margin Aaron, I 240 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: know the problem is when someone goes missing time as 241 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: a v essence. I mean, Mike, you give this timeline adjustment. 242 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: That's fascinating because we live in a day and age 243 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: where we track each other through our phones. I mean, 244 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: the apps track us, We track each other, we check in, 245 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: we tag each other. So it's almost like as a 246 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: technology evolves, we may be getting more to work with. 247 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: This time goes by, and I know that that has 248 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: to be at least somewhat encouraging for you and Aaron, 249 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: because I heard a great description you gave. It's like 250 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: trying to find a moving needle in a haystack that's 251 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: stuck with me. Mike Enable, because that's exactly what this 252 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: case it must seem like for you and the family 253 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: over the course of the last three years. Guys, take 254 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut five our friends at WA 255 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: three last time they saw Andrea, her father says she 256 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: seemed to be carrying the weight of the world on 257 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: her shoulders. Andrea's sister says they were close and always 258 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: there for each other. The goal of the weekend long 259 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: look is to have areas cleared so the Knnables don't 260 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: have to worry about them anymore. They've had their speculations. 261 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: I've always felt it's the most likely scenario that she 262 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: left with someone that she needs. We think she was 263 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: able to reach somebody she knew and went off into 264 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: the darkness and something offul happened. Ever since she went missing, 265 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: they've been doing everything they can to raise awareness, wanting 266 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: Andrea to see and wander back their way. The searches 267 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: on land and on social media won't stop and totally 268 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: find answers. Anyone with information is asked to contact LMPD. 269 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: To you, Aaron Cannable, this is Andrew's sister. Why do 270 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: you Why is that your working theory that she got 271 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: a ride or went with some and she knew that 272 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: night after she left her mom's house. The reason I 273 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: feel that way is just because I've basically been through 274 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: this area either living around here or you know, regularly 275 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: going here to visit my mother my entire life. And 276 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: I walked through this neighborhood at any hour of the 277 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: day and night, and I've never felt unsafe. It's just 278 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense for it to be random. And 279 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: because she had friends that were not trustworthy during this 280 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: time period, of people that she cared about that did 281 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: not care about her. You know how many times Doctor 282 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: Sherry Schwartz, Forensic psychologists have we seen a wonderful person, 283 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: a great person with the wrong crowd, And that is 284 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: their undoing exactly. And from what I've read about Andrea, 285 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: she's clearly very empathetic. I read you know that she's 286 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: involved in helping to find missing people. She's doing that 287 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: because she has empathy for these missing people, and that 288 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: might bring her into contact with people who aren't so 289 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: nice and empathetic. That's a really good point. I found 290 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: myself as a prosecutor riding around town for hours on end, 291 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: having breakfast, lunch, and dinner with convicted felons and dope 292 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: addicts and you name it, trumping through drughouses to find witnesses. 293 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: And you can't walk through the muck every day, even 294 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: if you were in hit boots, and not bring a 295 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: little bit home. Mike Knabele, this is Andrew's dad. What 296 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: kind of mom has she been to her two little boys? Well, 297 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: Andrey was a great mother, and generally you can tell 298 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: that about how the children react to her. And they 299 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: loved her dearly and supported her, and everything she did 300 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: she made them very happy. Aaron Kinnabel, how are the 301 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: boys doing without their mom? I mean, they've got to 302 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: be torn up. Yeah, they're they're very strong children, they're 303 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: very bright, so they're making it. They're they're carrying on, 304 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: but it's obvious that there's something there that they hold 305 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: a lot of greed. And I work with them when 306 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: I see them, I make sure they know that anytime 307 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: they want to share about their mother, I'm always listening 308 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: and I give them an overview of what I do 309 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: for Andrea. They've they've even helped, like Brent give me 310 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: ideas on where to hang missing posters, for example, and 311 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: they've laminated posters for me. You said, they feel like 312 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: they want them to feel like they can do something too. 313 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: That is a memory and no child should have to 314 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: have that putting up missing posters for their mom. Guys, 315 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,239 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut six our friends at 316 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: w d RB. A Louisville mother vanished in this weekend. 317 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: There is a new effort to find answers, and her 318 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: family has continued to put flyers up around town and 319 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: call in outside resources to help find her. This Saturday 320 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: and Sunday, a large search will cover several areas of 321 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: the city. Twelve cadaver service dog and handlers from eleven 322 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: different states will search in about a dozen areas. Knabel's 323 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: family is hopeful this will provide them with some information. 324 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: We have not given up hope. Were we need America, 325 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: We realize that, but there's places we want to rule out, 326 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: so we can just leave them alone and go on 327 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: to the next thing. Well, you think you've seen Andrea somewhere, 328 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: Call police, won't you please help us find this missing 329 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: mother of two who's devoted so much time to helping 330 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: other people. Where is Andrew Knabel? You can go online 331 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: to where is Andrew Knabel a go fund me or 332 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: dial five zero two five seven four seven one two zero. 333 00:19:41,400 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: We pray for justice. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace eighteen 334 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: long years ago, a beautiful young woman, It goes missing, 335 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: but a stunning discovery, a so called cold case heats 336 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: up in a bizarre twist. You know, very often we 337 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: refer to cold cases. And in all the years that 338 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: I prosecuted, there were files in the back of my 339 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 1: drawer that I didn't have time to get to, files 340 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: that sat there and sat there and sat there waiting 341 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: for a resolution, and they drove me crazy. As I'm 342 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: talking about it, I can still see them in my mind. 343 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: I can see them at the back of the filing cabinet, 344 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: and I would wonder is there ever going to be 345 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: a time that I can work these and try to 346 00:20:54,640 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: heat up cold cases, and then sometimes a twist of 347 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: fate he eats those cases up for us. Again, this 348 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us. Take a 349 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: listen to investigative report with crime online dot com Dave mac. 350 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: A woman's body was found in a shallow grave on 351 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: the Oakland Army Base. The District Attorney's Office says a 352 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: work crew discovered an uncovered human body wrapped in tarps 353 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: in a shallow grave near Seventh and Maritime Streets. An 354 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: autopsy reports positively identified the body as Cynthia Linda Alonso, 355 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: according to a news release from the Alameda County District 356 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: Attorney's Office, Syntha Linda Alonzo went missing on Thanksgiving November 357 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: twenty fourth, two thousand and four. She was last seen 358 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: heading to her mother's house for a holiday dinner, but 359 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: never arrived. Now, approximately eighteen years after her disappearance and murder, 360 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: her body has been positively identified wrapped in tarps in 361 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: a shallow grave. How the hay was that not? Discoverer? 362 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: First of all, let me introduce you an all star panel. 363 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: First of all veteran trial lawyer joining me out of 364 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: South Carolina, Susan E. Williams. You can find her at 365 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: s Williams dash Law dot net. Renowned psychologists joining us 366 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: out of Manhattan. Karen Start. You can find her at 367 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,959 Speaker 1: Karen Start dot com. That's Karen with a See Joseph 368 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood 369 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a new 370 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: series Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on iHeart. But 371 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: first to a special guest joining us. Senior reporter with 372 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: our favorite newspaper, The New York Post, Dana Kennedy, and 373 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: you can find her at Dana Kennedy dot com. Dana, 374 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Tell me about the 375 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: discovery of the body. Well turns up at a work 376 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: crew found Linda Alonto's body all wrapped up in tarps 377 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: at the Oakland Army Base. And it was kind of 378 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: a off the track kind of area. But it was 379 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: also strange because the police had been told years ago 380 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 1: it was probably in that area. It was just really 381 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: a coincidental happenstance. A bunch of you know, construction guys 382 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: found the body. You know that has happened before on 383 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: other occasions. Where was the body discovered? I understand that 384 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: it was in West Oakland, California. What is that just 385 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: outside of Oakland? Yeah, it's just outside of Oakland, on 386 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: the actual Oakland Army Base. And it was just an 387 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: everyday work crew, not not police, not detectives, who just 388 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: happened to defind her body. It was in a very 389 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: shallow grave, wrapped in tarp. You know it Just Scot 390 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: Morgan joining US Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, J Scott, 391 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: I've got to u later. Karen's talking about the shock 392 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: of discovering a dead body and how literally people have 393 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: tripped over dead bodies. It brings to mind. Just recently 394 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: we cover the of the Queen's mom of two or 395 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: Sawya Gail, whose body had been folded up into her 396 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: son's hockey bag and then dragged about a half a 397 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: mile from their home, and a guy out walking his 398 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: dog just literally came upon a dead body. It happens 399 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: quite often. Then. We had a high school teacher just 400 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: recently who went for a walk at lunchtime never came back. 401 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: Her body was just found by someone out for a 402 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: walk in the same park type area. It happens so often, 403 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: much more often than we think. But what I don't get, 404 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan is if this is a shallow grave, 405 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: why didn't nobody see that or notice for all these years? 406 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: Eighteen years? Yeah, to Dana's point, you know, this is 407 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: a kind of off the beaten track, right, and so 408 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: you're not necessarily going to see it in Also after 409 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: eighteen years, this is what we refer to in forensics 410 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: as a clandestine burial after eighteen years. The landscape what 411 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: we refer to as the topography, and also taffonomy is 412 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: another term we use in forensics. Last one, Yeah, taffonomy 413 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: as well. And taffonomy. Yeah, it's ta PHO n y 414 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: r O M y uh. The ground actually changes the ground. 415 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: People think their ground beneath them is static and it's not. 416 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: It's always changing at all times. And so that's a 417 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: problem um for investigators because you're as as the short 418 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: soul shifts. Think about it's very very active ground out 419 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: there in Frisco, isn't it in that area. You know, 420 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: you've got all kinds of shifting that takes takes place. 421 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,239 Speaker 1: Then you have foliage that grows over this area. The 422 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: only thing that would really stand out is maybe a 423 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: depressed area that again can potentially be backfilled by rain 424 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 1: that washed her in there. So it's not something you're 425 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: necessarily going to see at first clamps. Okay, that makes 426 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: a lot more sense to me. And back to Dana Kennedy, 427 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: senior reporter with a New York Post. Was the construction 428 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: crew digging? Is that how they found her? They were 429 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: just doing sort of as far as they know, Nancy, 430 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: they were just doing some general maintenance stuff. They weren't 431 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: even doing anything specific. It was just kind of a 432 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: workaday assignments, you know. It also brings up the specter 433 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:35,120 Speaker 1: of the top mom Casey Anthony case where a government 434 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: worker was out doing his job and he noticed on 435 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: more than one occasion something he thought was odd in 436 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: a wooded area, and he called police several times to 437 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: come out and look at it. It was the body 438 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: of two year old Kelly Anthony. So here you've got 439 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 1: construction workers, much like the other examples I've given you, 440 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: happening upon a dead body. At that point, Scott Morgan, 441 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: she's wrapped in tarps, So what exactly would the construction 442 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: workers have encountered. Well, I can almost tell you precisely 443 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: what they saw. They saw an edge of fabric sticking 444 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: up out of the ground. I would imagine that's what 445 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: first grasp them. And it's not just a tarp, it's 446 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: it's tarps. You know, I'm not correcting you. I'm just 447 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: saying I keep reading that over and over again. So 448 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: that means that there's some preparation that went into this. 449 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,479 Speaker 1: Somebody showed up in order to deposit this body. I mean, 450 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: obviously she didn't wrap herself up, but to you know, 451 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: kind of secure the body. And for us as investigators, 452 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, Nancy, that far down range, that's 453 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: jackpot for us because that means that even though the 454 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: body is breaking down and decomposing all that stuff that 455 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: we talked about all the time, guess what's happening. Everything 456 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: is remaining contained within that tarp. So if you have 457 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: something that's really really robust, as far as that fabric 458 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: that that holds that holds that fabric that tarped together, 459 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: there's going to be tremendous containment in this environment. So 460 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 1: you have to be real, real careful is you're kind 461 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: of excavating around this thing. The only thing that could 462 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: go wrong. I mean, God bless the construction workers. They 463 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: didn't know what they were into. But if they dug 464 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: it or pierced the tarp in any way, that could 465 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: compromise the evidence. But it's still self contained in that 466 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: little depressed area. You know, it's interesting. I don't know 467 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: if you guys have looked at the scene. It's right 468 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: beside a street. It's not out and a densely wooded 469 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: I'm looking at it right now, a murder of victim's 470 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: body found eighteen years after the crime. I'm looking right 471 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: at the aerial view from sky seven ABC, and it's 472 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: under it's beside a tree, but it is no more 473 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: than forty ft maybe fifty feet off of a street. 474 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: And that tells me a lot about the killer. Why 475 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: would the killer deposit the body bury the body that 476 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: close to a street. Karen Start NEWRK psychologists joining us 477 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: from Manhattan today at Karen Start dot com. The shock 478 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: of discovering a dead body or skeletal remains, it's something 479 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: you never get over. I was just thinking that Nancy, 480 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: that it's not the same as hearing about it or 481 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: seeing about it on television or a movie screen. When 482 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: you encounter a dead body, it's usually your first experience 483 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: and you're totally unprepared for it, and if there's just 484 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: nothing like it, if you're emotionally, you kind of go 485 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: into shock because you just don't think of when you're 486 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: taking a walk, coming across somebody who's dead versus bumping 487 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: into someone who's alive. That's really all because I think 488 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: about it a lot. Go ahead, Yeah, yeah, I guess 489 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: because I deal with finding dead bodies all the time. 490 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: You're exposed to it, right, So I think that in 491 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: my mind that's perfectly. I could absolutely happen if I 492 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: take the twizz or the walk, But I understand that 493 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: that's not normal. So Susan E. Williams joining me South 494 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: Carolina Criminal Defenses or any former prosecutor, have you ever 495 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: defended or prosecuted a case where you had a Jane 496 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: Doe you didn't know who the dead person was. I haven't, 497 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: But I suspect that the Thanksgiving from two thousand and 498 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: four for Lindo Lonzo's family will be vastly different than 499 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving this year twenty twenty two, now that the body 500 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: of their mother has been found after all these years, 501 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: eighteen years they've been waiting, and it's some good closure 502 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: for them, you know. I'm thinking back on a case, 503 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: one of the cases I prosecuted where the victim to Jando. 504 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: The defendant, Brian Barrell Coleman I think was his name, 505 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: still remains a Jando to this day. And it's very, 506 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: very hard to find a killer when you don't know 507 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: who your victim is because you can't figure out, oh, well, 508 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: who was she dating, who was she married to, who 509 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: was she with the night's disappeared? Do you don't know 510 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: who she is? It's a whole another layer of complexity. 511 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: So to you, Dana Kennedy, a senior reporter in New 512 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: York Post, how did they go about identifying Linda or 513 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: do we know? We know a little bit. First of all, 514 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: we know that one of her kids was actually called 515 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: down to the crime team, which is amazing because obviously, 516 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: after all those years, I don't know what there would 517 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: have been to identify. But the Alameda County Corners Office 518 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: performed and actual autopsy to confirm that the body was hurt, 519 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: and that autopsy was on ME twelve, and that was 520 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: the way they made the final final decision. Dana Kennedy, 521 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: As usually you always tell me something I don't know. 522 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: That's really interesting that when they found this body, a 523 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: woman wrapped in tarps. Did you hear that? As Joe Scott, 524 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: thank you for telling me that they call her son 525 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: now a grown man because eighteen years have passed with 526 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: him growing up without a mother. So they knew there 527 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: was something about the body that identified her, and they 528 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: called her son when the body was found. Is that 529 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: what you said, Dana Kennedy? Yes, wow, So Joe Scott, 530 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: what could it have been? And how do you then 531 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: id the body definitively because there's not going to be 532 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: She's totally skeletonized in eighteen years. Yeah. In the world 533 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: that we're in now, even when you have the fresh dead, 534 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: as we refer to them, you were you wouldn't you 535 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: rarely put families something the grocery store, Well, you rarely 536 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: put family members in their presence. You do it now 537 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: electronically where you're looking at images and all that sort 538 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: of thing. But now you know, if we're talking about 539 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: a body that's this far down range and you're talking, 540 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: you've mentioned the words skeletonization, and that's key here. So 541 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: I have to think that it might be an identifier 542 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,959 Speaker 1: like a piece of jewelry perhaps, or maybe even a 543 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: bit of clothing. But this is key here, I think 544 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: because they knew enough. They knew enough at this point 545 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: in time to reach out to the family. So that 546 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: means that the investigators already had connectivity in this case. 547 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: They knew which direction they were moving in. It's not 548 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: like they just called a random person and told them 549 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: to come down there. They called her family, So that 550 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: means they had information from Jump Street that drew the 551 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: family down there, and they just wanted to get eyes 552 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: on to see if we're heading in the right direction 553 00:33:51,240 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 1: at that point time. Time stories with Nancy Grace. So 554 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: in order to solve the mystery what happened to this mom, 555 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: Linda Alonso, We've got to know about the night she 556 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: goes missing. Take a listen to Dave Matt Crime Online. 557 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 1: When Alonso didn't show up for Thanksgiving, Teresa Jones started 558 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: her own investigation. Jones began looking around the home for clues. 559 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: Did Alonso leave to run errands or did she just 560 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,439 Speaker 1: leave with no warning? All of Alonzo's personal belongings were 561 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,479 Speaker 1: still in the home, her makeup debit card, social security card, 562 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: identification and other personal items all still in place. Did 563 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: you hear that Karen's tark all of her personal items 564 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 1: were still in the home? Makeup, debit card, social security card, ID, 565 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: all our personal items were there and even in place. 566 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: What is that tell you, Karen? Oh, it tells me 567 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: that she intended to come back. That it wasn't like 568 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: she was going to be running away or making any 569 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: decision to leave, because who would go a female, especially 570 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: without her purse, her identity, her makeup, whatever was in 571 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: the bag. You just instinctively take that with you. Well, 572 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 1: I think that's a little stereotypical, Karen starm. I've never 573 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: got to change to you of that. You know, I 574 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: don't carry upon The last thing I'm going to do 575 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 1: is carrying around a bag full of makeup dropping through 576 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: housing projects. To have your hands free at all time, 577 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: all times. So, but yes, I agree with you on 578 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: the other items. Absolutely agree with you. It seems as 579 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,399 Speaker 1: if she would have been coming back if all her 580 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 1: stuff was still there. Okay, what exactly are we talking about? 581 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut three from Crime Online. 582 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: When in search of Alonzo's home didn't turn up anything 583 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: out of the ordinary. Linda's reached out to Eric Mora. 584 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: He said that he hadn't seen his girlfriend for at 585 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: least two weeks. Little else was said, but the daughters 586 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: believed there was cause for concern. A rug was missing 587 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: from Maura's bedroom, and Maura then changed his story, saying 588 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: he had taken Alonso to the store just the week before. 589 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: And then neighbors say Alonzo was seen getting into a 590 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: car with Moura on Thanksgiving Day for the drive to 591 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: Alonzo's mother's home. A rug, A rug, A rug missing 592 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: from the home. First of all, the boyfriend says he 593 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,919 Speaker 1: hasn't seen her for two weeks, she hasn't went home, 594 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: But then why's all our stuff there? And then a 595 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,760 Speaker 1: rug is missing. Dana Kennedy, senior reporter at New York Post. 596 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: Do I have to say, Durst, Robert Durst, remember when 597 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: his wife went missing? A rug was missing from the home. 598 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: Do you remember that? Yes? Yeah, Oh, we know what 599 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: people do with rugs. They wrap up a body. And okay, 600 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: there's so many rug associations. Then let me just say, 601 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:13,240 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Powell. Remember when his wife, Susan Powell went missing? 602 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: He later killed murdered both of his little boys, by 603 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: the way, but when their mom, Susan Powell, went missing, 604 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: cops came in. There was a rug missing, and there 605 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 1: was a fan. It was freezing tempts outside, and there 606 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 1: was a fan with the windows open, blowing on carpet 607 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: and trying to dry out the house. And mommy's missing. 608 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: You know, when the rug is missing, you know you 609 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 1: might as well go ahead and put handcuffs on the guy. 610 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: That's how I feel. I mean, Dana Kennedy, when you 611 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: hear a rug is missing, does the hair on the 612 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: back of your neck just stand up? Yeah, you hear 613 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: a rug missing, and you can just sort of see 614 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: in your own mind's eye what probably was done with 615 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: that rug. It was used to wrap a body. So 616 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 1: Dana Kennedy joining me from New York Post. Once cops 617 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: realize the rug is gone but all of her personal 618 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:08,240 Speaker 1: items are still there, what happens the cops. Definitely Nancy 619 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: knew something was up, but rug was missing. And not 620 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: only that, this guy Mora was constantly shaky and talking 621 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: too fast and a nervous wreck. Every time cops went 622 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: to see him. He started doing this weird home construction 623 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: like standing floors to get rid of blood. The guy 624 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: you know, was radiating that he was a suspect, but 625 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: they didn't have a smoking gun. They had nobody, so 626 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: it really took a long time to finally nail him. 627 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 1: Susan A. Williams joining me, veteran trial lawyer out of 628 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: South Carolina, former prosecutor, now defense lawyer. You know, Susan, 629 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: how much I love it when the target gets auntsy, 630 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 1: like Dana Kennedy is describing and talks too fast and 631 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: looks shaky as she described. I love it. That's what 632 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: I like to look with straight and I keep asking 633 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: them questions. You know, he hits a really bizarre behavior 634 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: after Linda's murder, the standing of the floors, there were 635 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: some cleaning agents that were using the walls of the residence. 636 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: He gave police of different lots of different stories, and 637 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: he just left town after the case moved from a 638 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: missing person to a homicide. So long story short, says 639 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 1: in Williams. He acts shaky, nervous, has an agitated voice pattern, 640 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: and then amazingly starts home improvements, including sanding and cleaning. 641 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: You know, Jess got Morgan. How often do we see 642 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: a guy turned into a complete neat freak after his 643 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: wife or girlfriend goes missing. Yeah, it's a pattern that 644 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: they got to do the laundry, they got them the floors. 645 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: This case, they had to sand the floors. Yeah, Lord, 646 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: have mercy. I don't know that I've ever heard of 647 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: a case where somebody was sanding the floors. I've heard 648 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: a lot about bleach. I've heard a lot about scrubbing, 649 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: but this is this is kind of an outlier for me. 650 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: But yeah, they go to extreme many times. And you know, 651 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: one of the things you can do to trace this 652 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: is go out and see what they're purchasing. You know, 653 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: is it something that's outside of the norm of what 654 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: they would normally do. And in this particular case, it 655 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,319 Speaker 1: sounds like the guy invested in sandpaper. Nancy. Guys, take 656 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut five from Crime Online's Dave mac. 657 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: It was more as Home that solidified the police theory 658 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 1: that Moura had killed his girlfriend, Linda Alonzo, after discovering 659 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: the carpet had been removed from his car. Police search 660 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 1: Eric Moore's home. Bloodstains matching both Mora and Alonso are 661 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: found throughout, but especially in the bedroom. Bloodstains were found 662 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 1: on the wall, and there was evidence that someone had 663 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: tried to clean it up. Investigators also noted that Mara 664 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,399 Speaker 1: had unevenly sanded the bedroom and living room floors. Note 665 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: to self, after I murdered Dave and my husband, stand 666 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: down the floors to get rid of all the evidence. 667 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: I mean, what did he need to do? Take out 668 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: a billboard on Third Avenue Dana Kennedy that says I 669 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:06,759 Speaker 1: murdered Linda. Really well, the cleaning supplies the sanding. What 670 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: guy have you seen? I mean, have you ever seen 671 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,800 Speaker 1: any boyfriend or husband in your life get four h 672 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,240 Speaker 1: nine or the equivalent and start cleaning the walls, because 673 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,399 Speaker 1: I've never seen that in my life. I have never 674 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: I have never seen anyone like that cleaning the walls, 675 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: except you know, in a situation where it was very 676 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: suspicious and among other things, just so you know, when 677 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: the cops were searching the vehicles if this guy owned Mara, 678 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: they found a ten inch blade with a leather sheet 679 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: as well as a bag for counting money on it, 680 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 1: so they knew they knew this guy was in deep 681 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,399 Speaker 1: and he was a bit of a Keystone cop. When 682 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 1: I came to cleaning up the murder because there was 683 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: still blood everywhere despite his efforts to sand and to 684 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: clean and pick up bits of carpeting. So you know, 685 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,359 Speaker 1: he wasn't going to win any brain trust. Man, you're 686 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: not kidding about that, Okay, take a listen to our cut. 687 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: Six two and a half years after Alonzo went missing, 688 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: Eric Mora was charged with Linda Alonso's murder. Mora was 689 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,320 Speaker 1: convicted of second degree murder and sentenced to fifteen years 690 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,719 Speaker 1: to life behind bars. Four years later, the conviction was 691 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 1: overturned in appeals court. New evidence, however, made it possible 692 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: for police to refile charges against Mora. An informant told 693 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: police that Maura admitted to him that he'd beaten Linda 694 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 1: to death with a hammer. Her body was then reportedly dismembered, 695 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: wrapped in a tarp, and loaded into Maura's car. The 696 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,439 Speaker 1: informant said the body was then dumped in the water 697 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 1: somewhere in California. One of Moura's cellmates also testified that 698 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: Mara tried to bribe him with a thousand dollars into 699 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: telling cops that he was with Mora when Linda disappeared, 700 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: and that he'd seen Linda after Thanksgiving the cellmate did 701 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: not accept the offer. A year later, Mora confessed Wow, 702 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: but in the intram eighteen years drag it by take 703 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: a less an hour cut seven. Despite exhaustive searches, Cynthia 704 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: Linda Alonzo's body was not found for over eighteen years. 705 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,240 Speaker 1: After More confessed to killing Alonzo, he provided a general 706 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 1: location of her buried body, but the exact location was 707 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: never found until construction workers uncovered a shallow grave while 708 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 1: working on the streets of the Oakland Army Base. The 709 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: Alameda County Corners Office conducted an autopsy and confirmed it 710 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: was Alonzo's body. Eighteen years, these children went without their mother. 711 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: Now finally she has been found and may she rest 712 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: in peace. Nancy Grace Crim's toy sign him off advisement