1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:05,600
Speaker 1: Mmmm. Welcome to Behind the Bastards, the show where we

2
00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,280
Speaker 1: tell you everything you don't know about the very worst

3
00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:12,160
Speaker 1: people in all the history. I'm Robert Evans. Sophie does

4
00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 1: not like me using my my accent, which I consider

5
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,200
Speaker 1: a type of racism, because I am a Southern man

6
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,920
Speaker 1: and I have to hide the reality of who I am.

7
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,080
Speaker 1: Is that your natural voice, that's my natural no affectation,

8
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,560
Speaker 1: that's me. That's deep South, deep South man. I I'm

9
00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,040
Speaker 1: a Southern gentleman. I don't know. I feel like you

10
00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,680
Speaker 1: went from Southern farmer to uh, Southern lawyer in a

11
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,800
Speaker 1: white linen suit. Well, now that one was not my honor.

12
00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,760
Speaker 1: There's no there's nothing classy about my background. H yeah.

13
00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:51,319
Speaker 1: Now Anna Selina's back comics by Anna Comics artist Uh.

14
00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:58,320
Speaker 1: Uh street fighter uh. President of the Anti Vaccination Society

15
00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,400
Speaker 1: of America. Unfortunately, that is why you brought me on here,

16
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,200
Speaker 1: not because of my comics or Twitter hot takes, but

17
00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:11,240
Speaker 1: because I am the president of the anti vaxers. That

18
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,160
Speaker 1: was me to me and you're not. But we are

19
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,880
Speaker 1: talking about the anti vaccine movement still we are, and

20
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:20,200
Speaker 1: I feel weirdly conflicted about it so far because we

21
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:25,120
Speaker 1: spent an episode talking about how both sides had points

22
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,920
Speaker 1: and we're also racist. Yeah, I mean everybody's racist. In

23
00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,039
Speaker 1: the nineties, you're not going to find a lot of

24
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,520
Speaker 1: not racist people. Even like the not racist people still

25
00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:42,400
Speaker 1: use terms that are like, oh, guys, you are. Yeah.

26
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,120
Speaker 1: It's like watching Blazing Saddles where it's like, oh my god, yeah, yeah,

27
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 1: I could see like revolutionary for its time, but also

28
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,400
Speaker 1: like my old bosses were like, it's the best movie.

29
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,040
Speaker 1: That's your that's your homework. You need to go watch

30
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,880
Speaker 1: that movie. It's so funny. And I watched it and look,

31
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:05,160
Speaker 1: that movie is racist and sexist. And the first time

32
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,600
Speaker 1: it was a huge step forward. I understand nobody and

33
00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,120
Speaker 1: say you'll never like it was everything that's great on

34
00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,520
Speaker 1: a scale when we talk about history, yes, for itst

35
00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,400
Speaker 1: time it was, but watching it now, it's just like,

36
00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,920
Speaker 1: this is not least. You go to a lot of abolitionists,

37
00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,040
Speaker 1: like people who are like fighting to end slavery in

38
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,360
Speaker 1: the eighteen fifties, and they would be like, well, of course,

39
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,359
Speaker 1: you know, black people earned as intelligent as white people,

40
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,480
Speaker 1: but they shouldn't be slaves. And it's like, okay, well

41
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,120
Speaker 1: you're racist, but you're not in favorite slavery. So I

42
00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,560
Speaker 1: guess we're greating on a curve here. That's true. Yeah,

43
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,440
Speaker 1: it's it's just it's complicated. I can't wait for twenty

44
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,079
Speaker 1: years from now when people look over at my tweets,

45
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 1: because you know, Twitter will be here in twenty years. Oh. Absolutely,

46
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 1: this one all collapsed like the house of cards that

47
00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,760
Speaker 1: people look at my tweets and be like, oh problematic. Yeah,

48
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 1: I feel like that might be just bite owning pets

49
00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:02,040
Speaker 1: and stuff. You think, No, I wonder if that's the

50
00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,160
Speaker 1: next frontier. Who knows. I know that future generalation generations

51
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,079
Speaker 1: will judge me for all of the meat that I yeah,

52
00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,079
Speaker 1: no arguments there. I hope. I hope we get there.

53
00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,160
Speaker 1: We will, I mean, because the planet will die, that's true.

54
00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,520
Speaker 1: That's like with these vaccines. It's like people will get it,

55
00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:22,920
Speaker 1: people will get it, but tens of thousands of people

56
00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 1: will die first. The human totally nightmarish. That's what convinces people.

57
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,960
Speaker 1: That's what convinces people. I love. I guess one of

58
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,200
Speaker 1: my favorite kinds of stories is like terrible people who

59
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,880
Speaker 1: we're heroes. Still, Like there's this great story of like

60
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,800
Speaker 1: during the Japanese invasion. I think it was not Shanghai. Um,

61
00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:42,760
Speaker 1: it might have been Shanghai. Was the Japanese invasion of

62
00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,160
Speaker 1: this one Chinese city where like a massacred tens of

63
00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,880
Speaker 1: thousands of civilians, and like the guy who protected a

64
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,640
Speaker 1: huge number of them by like creating this international quarter

65
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,240
Speaker 1: in the city to like protect all of these civilians

66
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,560
Speaker 1: from being murdered by the Japanese was a Nazi Like

67
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 1: this literal knots are you saving thousands of women and

68
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,360
Speaker 1: children from like the Japanese murder? So why did he

69
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 1: Well because he was just like everyone was a member

70
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,920
Speaker 1: of the and this was like before the Holocaust really

71
00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,320
Speaker 1: got started. So he was like racist and anti Semitic,

72
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,600
Speaker 1: but he wasn't pro murder. He was just like a

73
00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,479
Speaker 1: businessman who joined the Nazi party. But like once he

74
00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,360
Speaker 1: saw people getting killed in the streets, was like, I

75
00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,760
Speaker 1: don't want this happening. It's a it's a mess. Like

76
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 1: that is a mess. That's a mess. I I'm always

77
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 1: interested in stories like that of like people who are

78
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,600
Speaker 1: objectively flawed bad people. You still did a good thing. Well.

79
00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,200
Speaker 1: I think we are all objectively flawed bad people doing

80
00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,440
Speaker 1: what we think is right or ignoring our moral compass altogether.

81
00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,040
Speaker 1: And those people are not always the worst people. I

82
00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,040
Speaker 1: ignore my moral compass all the time, all the time.

83
00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,919
Speaker 1: And uh, I'm not the worst person. And that's that's

84
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,919
Speaker 1: what I always shoot for, is not the worst, not

85
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,360
Speaker 1: the worst, My the worst person today. Note Roger Stone

86
00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:03,680
Speaker 1: is still alive. Fantastic good. I'm doing nailing it. The

87
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:05,839
Speaker 1: bar is low boy. This has been a long and

88
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:10,960
Speaker 1: meandering introduction. We're talking about Andrew Wakefield today. Yes, any Wakefield? Okay?

89
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,839
Speaker 1: So uh. The current ongoing measles outbreak of two thousand, nineteen,

90
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,440
Speaker 1: centering around Portland, Oregon, is the largest such outbreak in

91
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,600
Speaker 1: twenty years. Clark County, Washington, where the outbreak began, had

92
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 1: a measles vaccination rate of just seventy eight percent, not

93
00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,160
Speaker 1: high enough for her community to protect the immuno compromised.

94
00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,919
Speaker 1: Clark County just happens to be a recognized hotspot of

95
00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,880
Speaker 1: anti vaccine sentiment. In December two thousan fourteen, a trip

96
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,279
Speaker 1: to Disneyland led to a hundred and forty seven confirmed

97
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,799
Speaker 1: cases of measles. A hundred and ten of those people

98
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,160
Speaker 1: lived in California, and half of that group had not

99
00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,440
Speaker 1: taken the MMR vaccine, so this is not purely a

100
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,960
Speaker 1: coastal phenomenon. Over the last five years, the number of

101
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,080
Speaker 1: children who go unvaccinated each year, or in Texas each year,

102
00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,599
Speaker 1: has doubled to more than fifty seven thousand. Of course

103
00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,920
Speaker 1: it's Texas. Of course it's Texas. The direct cause here

104
00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,440
Speaker 1: is the existence of non medical exemptions, essentially a descendant

105
00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,479
Speaker 1: of the old British exemptions for conscientious objectors. But the

106
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,040
Speaker 1: real true cause of these outbreaks of diseases that by

107
00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:04,839
Speaker 1: all right, should be long dead by now is a

108
00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:10,200
Speaker 1: single man. His name is Andrew Wakefield, who's his name

109
00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,760
Speaker 1: should be more well known. I feel like Jenny McCarthy

110
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,760
Speaker 1: really gets the blame for this movement, and what she's

111
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,680
Speaker 1: doing is bad, But this guy's why. Oh yeah, bring

112
00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,520
Speaker 1: it on. Andrew was born in nineteen fifty seven. We

113
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,480
Speaker 1: don't know an awful lot about his early life, or

114
00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,160
Speaker 1: at least I was not able to find an awful lot.

115
00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,240
Speaker 1: His parents were both doctors, and his father was a neurologist,

116
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,520
Speaker 1: which is about the doctor is kind of doctor that exists? Um. Yeah.

117
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 1: He enrolled in St. Mary's Hospital Medical School as a

118
00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,320
Speaker 1: young adult, focusing on gastro Inturology. He seems to have

119
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,680
Speaker 1: been popular throughout this period. He was the captain of

120
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,960
Speaker 1: his medical school's rugby team and generally looked to be

121
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:46,880
Speaker 1: on a winning path in life when he graduated. And

122
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,760
Speaker 1: I'm just going to say this, I played female rugby

123
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:54,680
Speaker 1: and frougby as it's known, and male rugby players can't

124
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,080
Speaker 1: be a little much they can, they get a little brilli,

125
00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:59,680
Speaker 1: they can. It would have been a red flag for

126
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:04,760
Speaker 1: this guy. It's basically war without guns or paths or paths,

127
00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,960
Speaker 1: and when women do it, it's pretty cool and feminist.

128
00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:12,160
Speaker 1: But women do it, they get fraddy. Yeah well yeah, well,

129
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 1: are making a blanket statement. I hope male rugby players.

130
00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,880
Speaker 1: There's only one sport that I'm going to attack blanket

131
00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 1: all of the players of on this podcast, and that's

132
00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,440
Speaker 1: high ally. Yes. Yeah, well that's a correct take. Yeah yeah,

133
00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:31,080
Speaker 1: funk that sport. Fuck you for doing it. Yes, strong stance. Now.

134
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,120
Speaker 1: For more than a decade, Andrew Wakefield seems to have

135
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,800
Speaker 1: been a perfectly fine doctor and medical researcher. From nine

136
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,320
Speaker 1: to nineteen and nine, he worked at the University of

137
00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,960
Speaker 1: Toronto as part of a team studying tissue rejection from

138
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,400
Speaker 1: transplanted intestines. From the early nineteen nineties. Back in the UK,

139
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,520
Speaker 1: he started doing research at the Royal Free College of London.

140
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,640
Speaker 1: In nineteen three, he published an article suggesting that the

141
00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,640
Speaker 1: measles virus might cause Crone's disease. This drew a lot

142
00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,360
Speaker 1: of ice his wife, and two years later, when he

143
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,040
Speaker 1: published research suggesting that the measles vaccine might cause Crone's disease,

144
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,800
Speaker 1: even more people's started talking about this brash young doctor

145
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,760
Speaker 1: who was turning the system on his head. Now a

146
00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,000
Speaker 1: lot of evidence suggests that there is a link between

147
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 1: measles exposure and childhood and Crown's disease. There is, however,

148
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,800
Speaker 1: no evidence of a link between vaccination and Crown's disease.

149
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,000
Speaker 1: At the time when he started the research and made

150
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,960
Speaker 1: sense to look into, made sense to look into. But

151
00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,680
Speaker 1: did he have any bias pushing him toward. That's going

152
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:24,920
Speaker 1: to be a big focus of the episodes. So, and

153
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:26,480
Speaker 1: one thing I should point out is that if you

154
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,800
Speaker 1: know a lot of people with autism, kids with autism

155
00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:30,920
Speaker 1: in particular, a lot of them have weird bowel issues,

156
00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,840
Speaker 1: gastrointestinal issues and stuff like that. It's very common. So

157
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,160
Speaker 1: this is something that like people and trying to explain

158
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:37,959
Speaker 1: for a while, and why why do these kids with

159
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,240
Speaker 1: autism also have all of these weird like gastrointestinal issues.

160
00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,880
Speaker 1: So that's why he sort of gets into the study

161
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,600
Speaker 1: of autism as a gastroenturologist because there's some stuff there

162
00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 1: that that needs explaining. Okay, So it seems like maybe

163
00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,840
Speaker 1: Andrew Wakefield was starting from an honest place. It's not

164
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,520
Speaker 1: clear at what point that changed, but the evidence suggests

165
00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,880
Speaker 1: that Andrew Wakefield instantly saw financial opportunity in this purported

166
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,440
Speaker 1: connection between the MEAs vaccine and Crown's disease. In March,

167
00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:05,760
Speaker 1: Wakefield filed for a patent for a test that would

168
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 1: detect Crown's disease or ulcerative colitis by finding measles virus

169
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,960
Speaker 1: in the battel tissue product or fluids. Two years later,

170
00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,120
Speaker 1: Andrew Wakefield drew up a business scheme to present to investors.

171
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,960
Speaker 1: In it, he suggested using his patented tests to create

172
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,840
Speaker 1: a company that would make enormous profits from running these tests.

173
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 1: The anticipated annual income top seventy two million pounds per year.

174
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,440
Speaker 1: The perspectives he put together trying to Interact investors noted

175
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,200
Speaker 1: in view of the unique services offered by the company

176
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 1: and its technology, particularly for the molecular diagnostic the essays

177
00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,000
Speaker 1: can command premium prices. It sounds like he's just a scammer.

178
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,199
Speaker 1: It sounds like he's just a scam artist already. You

179
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,720
Speaker 1: don't even so it's so scammy like there's like so

180
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,319
Speaker 1: many levels that a scam artist could be a scammer.

181
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,840
Speaker 1: And Andrew Wakefield is a scammer on twice as many

182
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,840
Speaker 1: levels as that. But it's going to take some unpacking

183
00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,599
Speaker 1: to get through. So during all this time, Wakefield was

184
00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,640
Speaker 1: conducting a study at the Royal Free College. This study

185
00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 1: of tw children suggested that the MMR vaccine, which bundled measles, mumps,

186
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,080
Speaker 1: and rubella vaccinations together, could cause the measles virus to

187
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,240
Speaker 1: infect a child's intestines. Now, this study was an attempt

188
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,800
Speaker 1: to explain something that yeah parents with autistic children reported

189
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,360
Speaker 1: for years. Wigfield's research, published in nine seemed to suggest

190
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,560
Speaker 1: that the MMR vaccine harmed not just the child's intestines,

191
00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,960
Speaker 1: but the neurons and its brain. So this is the

192
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,199
Speaker 1: beginning of the idea that like, maybe this vaccine is

193
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,520
Speaker 1: what's causing the auticis and what year is this? This

194
00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,640
Speaker 1: is when he publishes his research. Okay, so this is

195
00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 1: pretty recent, pretty recent, and again twelve kids, so not

196
00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,360
Speaker 1: a huge study, not what you would want to make

197
00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,880
Speaker 1: sweeping claims about a vaccine. I feel like technically that

198
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,880
Speaker 1: would be rejected, right, that's the smallest sample. Flight Well,

199
00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:48,720
Speaker 1: that is how you start, you know, you would be

200
00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,560
Speaker 1: an anecdotal at that point. It seems like it would

201
00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,360
Speaker 1: be anecdotal. It is almost It's one of those things

202
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,640
Speaker 1: where if if he had immediately gone from that to

203
00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,040
Speaker 1: doing a two and fifty person study or something like that,

204
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,480
Speaker 1: that would be how a normal scientists have preceded. But

205
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,280
Speaker 1: that was not what Wakefield did. Wakefield did not immediately

206
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,160
Speaker 1: start telling people to not vaccinate, like he wasn't starting

207
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,920
Speaker 1: from anti vaccine, but he did start by saying, like,

208
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,480
Speaker 1: because of this research, I found we should stop bundling

209
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,320
Speaker 1: all these vaccinations together, and right at that same time,

210
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,480
Speaker 1: eight months before releasing his paper, actually he patented a

211
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 1: single measles vaccine, which is what he claimed after releasing

212
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,600
Speaker 1: his paper was the safest way to vaccinate your kids.

213
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:34,000
Speaker 1: Separate all the vaccinations so when they released this study

214
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,520
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight. Andrew Wakefield in the Royal Free

215
00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,600
Speaker 1: Medical School released the paper via a twenty three minute

216
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,680
Speaker 1: long video news conference, which is not how scientific studies

217
00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,679
Speaker 1: involving twelve people are usually. You wanted people to see

218
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,560
Speaker 1: his face. Wanted people to see his face. In this

219
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,200
Speaker 1: press conference. He made a very direct plea for people

220
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 1: to start using the exact kind of single use vaccine

221
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,800
Speaker 1: he just patented eight months before. Oh god, quote, this

222
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,600
Speaker 1: is Wakefield. There is fishent anxiety in my own mind

223
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,960
Speaker 1: for the long term safety of the polyvalent vaccine that

224
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,480
Speaker 1: is the MMR vaccination and combination that I think it

225
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,200
Speaker 1: should be suspended in favor of the single vaccines. Now.

226
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,480
Speaker 1: The journal he published in The Lancet is an old

227
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,840
Speaker 1: and extremely authoritative publication. They and his hospital, the Royal

228
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,040
Speaker 1: Free Hospital, knew about Wakefield's ambitions to profit off of

229
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,480
Speaker 1: this work. They threw resources into helping him launch his

230
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,600
Speaker 1: study with the press conference, which you know, again is

231
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,800
Speaker 1: not the norm. They knew he was trying to raise

232
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:27,640
Speaker 1: money to start a company, and they knew he'd patented

233
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,920
Speaker 1: a form of medicine that he was advising everyone to take.

234
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,600
Speaker 1: So both institutions took steps to protect themselves. The Lancet

235
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,319
Speaker 1: published a critique of wakefield study and the same issue

236
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,280
Speaker 1: in which it was released. This critique pointed out that

237
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,559
Speaker 1: the sample group was too small to draw big conclusions

238
00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,080
Speaker 1: from and that it had not been randomly determined. The

239
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,760
Speaker 1: Lancet did not make any mention of this critical article

240
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,200
Speaker 1: in the press release, though. The Royal Free Hospital convened

241
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,320
Speaker 1: a panel of five doctors to present to follow up

242
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,720
Speaker 1: press conference, where their panel would all agree that people

243
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,440
Speaker 1: should keep using the MMR vaccine until more research had

244
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 1: been done. Now, that was the plan for the press conference,

245
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,920
Speaker 1: but it didn't work out that way. The press conference

246
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:04,760
Speaker 1: wound up turning into a ship show. I found a

247
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,680
Speaker 1: recollection of it from a journalist who attended. Quote the

248
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,240
Speaker 1: five of them the panel that the hospital had convened.

249
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 1: We're sitting behind a table with Andrew Wakefield on the

250
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,240
Speaker 1: extreme left in Ari Zuckerman on the right. The tension

251
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,360
Speaker 1: rose as the event progressed, and by the end Wakefield

252
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,199
Speaker 1: was coolly urging patients to give their children single vaccines

253
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,120
Speaker 1: at annual intervals, while Zuckerman was on his feet banging

254
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,520
Speaker 1: the lectern and frustration as he insisted that the MMR

255
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,719
Speaker 1: vaccine had been given to millions of children around the

256
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,720
Speaker 1: world and was safe. So within a year of this

257
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,800
Speaker 1: press conference, Andrew Wakefield had become the director of two businesses,

258
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,200
Speaker 1: both Carmel and Unigenetics Ltd, who were registered in early

259
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,280
Speaker 1: nine Right after this press conference came out, Andrew Wakefield

260
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,040
Speaker 1: submitted a confidential report on behalf of Unigenetics to the

261
00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,200
Speaker 1: British Legal Aid Board and secured eight hundred thousand dollars

262
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,280
Speaker 1: in public funding to perform his tests on children in

263
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 1: a public hospital. Ward Wakefield sought an additional two point

264
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,760
Speaker 1: one million pounds to get his venture off the ground.

265
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,120
Speaker 1: In a quote private and confidential prospectus that later wound

266
00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,680
Speaker 1: up in the hands of a journalist for the British

267
00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,760
Speaker 1: Medical Journal, Andrew Wakefield stated that he believed that within

268
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,680
Speaker 1: three years of launching his diagnostic testing business, it would

269
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:10,559
Speaker 1: be worth twenty eight million pounds. He's so transparent. If

270
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,720
Speaker 1: you're listening, I can see. I mean, it's just how

271
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,560
Speaker 1: people get scammed. It's just yet another grifter or era

272
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,920
Speaker 1: of grifters. Now Wakefield still needed that investment money and

273
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,360
Speaker 1: one study of twelve kids no matter how publicized, was

274
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,400
Speaker 1: not going to draw the kind of funding that he needed,

275
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,240
Speaker 1: especially since other members of the medical community had started

276
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,440
Speaker 1: loudly pointing out the flaws in Wakefield's research. In order

277
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,119
Speaker 1: to secure that extra cash, Andrew Wakefield and a pathologist

278
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,840
Speaker 1: he had hired for Unigenetics, prepared to present new research

279
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,280
Speaker 1: at a London meeting of the Pathological Society in March

280
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,520
Speaker 1: of two thousand. According to the British Medical Journal quote,

281
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,080
Speaker 1: based on alleged gut biopsy samples from Walker Smith's patients

282
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,440
Speaker 1: tend with autism and three with Crohn's disease tested at

283
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,760
Speaker 1: a Dublin laboratory, it claimed a possible causal link and

284
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,640
Speaker 1: given a Wakefield presentation, promised a storm like the press

285
00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,880
Speaker 1: conference two years before. So he's done more research, but

286
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,240
Speaker 1: he's not doing another study. He's just going straight to

287
00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 1: press conference without actually publishing a peer of you'd study. Yeah,

288
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:11,400
Speaker 1: and did you say ten people? Ten thirteen total patients?

289
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,880
Speaker 1: This is not how you do research. This is not

290
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,920
Speaker 1: how you do research. And it's it's such bad science

291
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,480
Speaker 1: that I don't even have a good way to segue

292
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,880
Speaker 1: into this Dorito's plug. But I'm gonna I'm gonna that's

293
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:33,200
Speaker 1: a good Derito Dorito's if you're listening, sponsor this podcast now.

294
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,880
Speaker 1: And in deference to the fans who don't like the

295
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,120
Speaker 1: sound of crunching Dorito's. Really it's like the anti vaccine

296
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,680
Speaker 1: pro vaccine argument in the eighteen hundreds, were like, there's

297
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,400
Speaker 1: two sides here. There's a lot of people who say

298
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 1: more Dorito's crunching, and a lot of people who say less.

299
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lean on the side of not doing as

300
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,200
Speaker 1: much Dorito's crunching. But every now and then, you gotta

301
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,720
Speaker 1: right now and then I got, you know, fifteen minute

302
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,840
Speaker 1: fast for our fifteen seconds past forward. That's the thing. Yeah,

303
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,880
Speaker 1: that will be the only crunch in this episode. But

304
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,560
Speaker 1: I just needed it. I needed to. I want to

305
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,400
Speaker 1: believe everyone who listens to podcast has a little love

306
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,520
Speaker 1: of a s mr. Oh yeah, I mean you would hope.

307
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 1: Some people don't like the sound of eating, which is

308
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 1: why I wolf found like a third of a bag

309
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 1: of Derrisos like a fucking monster. Yeah, I was eating

310
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,040
Speaker 1: my cookies, so I was trying to be so sneaky

311
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,880
Speaker 1: about it. Sophie's eating dog treats right now. Yeah, I mean,

312
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,000
Speaker 1: while they're next to her bag of fritos. There's no

313
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,640
Speaker 1: way to know which one she's eating, and she did reach. Yeah,

314
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 1: that's what I thought. Now. Wakefield started talking with pharmaceutical

315
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,360
Speaker 1: companies right before this planned like press release um. One

316
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 1: of them even flew him to Canada to talk. He

317
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,080
Speaker 1: was negotiating with Johnson and Johnson, Merk and Smith Klent

318
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 1: Beach him. So it looked like he was about to

319
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 1: get the funding. He wanted a couple of million dollars

320
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,640
Speaker 1: to start producing this single shot vaccine. Where was the

321
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,000
Speaker 1: oversight of this guy? Why did he lose his license?

322
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 1: That's coming up. Thankfully he did not get to carry

323
00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,760
Speaker 1: out all of his plans. Another doctor, Mark Peppi's, would

324
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 1: find to put a stop to wakefield scheme. Peppies had

325
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,040
Speaker 1: recently been made the head of medicine at the Royal

326
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,600
Speaker 1: Free College and he did not like Wakefield or his research.

327
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,520
Speaker 1: Peppi's convinced the college to send Wakefield a letter finally

328
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,120
Speaker 1: admitting their concern about his involvement with these new companies

329
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,000
Speaker 1: he'd created in his financial interest in producing the single

330
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 1: use measles vaccine quote. This concern arose originally because the

331
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,720
Speaker 1: company's business plan appears to depend on premature, scientifically unjustified

332
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,159
Speaker 1: publication of results which do not conform to the rigorous

333
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,480
Speaker 1: academic and scientific standards that are generally expected. So first study, fine,

334
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,600
Speaker 1: it's okay to do if you're trying to prove something

335
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,720
Speaker 1: new and put out a study with a small sample size.

336
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,800
Speaker 1: But the fact that your second press release isn't even

337
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,959
Speaker 1: a study and involves one more person this seems shady

338
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,320
Speaker 1: to us. So the college did not immediately cut his

339
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,040
Speaker 1: funding or fire him. They offered him a continuation of

340
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,480
Speaker 1: his funding if he would conduct new research and test

341
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,320
Speaker 1: his theories about the MMR vaccine. He was promised help

342
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 1: with the study of a hundred and fifty children to

343
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,280
Speaker 1: see if his research for the lance that could be

344
00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,879
Speaker 1: replicated with a larger group was what real scientists do.

345
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,520
Speaker 1: But mon, how did they not get it by this point? Well,

346
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,480
Speaker 1: so what might have been wishful thinking? Um, some of

347
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,600
Speaker 1: it might have been legitimately being like, okay, well, maybe

348
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, there's clearly something going on between like bow

349
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 1: disorders and autism, so maybe something's happening here it's worth

350
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,399
Speaker 1: looking into. So they offered to pay him to do

351
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,040
Speaker 1: a study with a hundred and fifty children uh and

352
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 1: Wakefield initially agreed to conduct the study, but he never

353
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,439
Speaker 1: actually did because the nine lands that study had been

354
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,840
Speaker 1: a total scam. None of this came out until two

355
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,280
Speaker 1: thousand eleven, when a journalist named Brian Deer published an

356
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,000
Speaker 1: investigation for the British Journal of Medicine. It was revealed

357
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,119
Speaker 1: for the first time that Andrew Wakefield had actually been

358
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 1: running a second secret scam alongside his other more obvious scams.

359
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,240
Speaker 1: Rather than being a legitimate study motivated by sheer interest

360
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 1: in the truth, his Lancet paper had essentially been commissioned

361
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,920
Speaker 1: by a lawyer named Richard Barr, who represented a bunch

362
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 1: of families who believed their kids had gotten sick through

363
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,840
Speaker 1: the MMR vaccine. Wakefield's research started as paid work for

364
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,240
Speaker 1: a lawyer trying to justify a lawsuit. He made something

365
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 1: like four hundred fifty thou dollars for this work alone.

366
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,160
Speaker 1: None of this was known until Brian Deer's report came out.

367
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 1: All of Wakefield's patients had been recruited by anti MMR

368
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 1: vaccine campaigners, and even then, Deer's research showed that Wakefield

369
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,200
Speaker 1: had strayed up lied about many of their symptoms. Being

370
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 1: a journalist, Brian Deer actually took Wakefield's research to the

371
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,439
Speaker 1: parents of the kids in the study to like be like,

372
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:21,919
Speaker 1: is this what happened to your kid? Is this what

373
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:23,640
Speaker 1: happened to your kid? Is this what happened to your kid?

374
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,720
Speaker 1: And it turns out that he had essentially misrepresented everybody's symptoms.

375
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:33,640
Speaker 1: Whoa so complete fabrica, complete fabrication. Not just a guy

376
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 1: who came up with a study, saw that there might

377
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,719
Speaker 1: be a connection and they decided to try to profit

378
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,119
Speaker 1: on it, which is what it looked like at first,

379
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,960
Speaker 1: but a guy whose whole study was falsified from the

380
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 1: beginning because a lawyer was paying him to find a connection.

381
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,400
Speaker 1: God damn it. Yeah, now we're going to get into

382
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,960
Speaker 1: just how that famous Lancet study, which by the way,

383
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 1: is still to this day the single biggest scientific underpenning

384
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 1: of the anti vaccine movement. Do they know it's fake? Well,

385
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,719
Speaker 1: everyone does, but some people don't accept it. It's like,

386
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,879
Speaker 1: you know, Nathan Phillips and that Sandman kid confrontation on

387
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,920
Speaker 1: the in d C where we all have the same

388
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 1: hour and forty five minute video of everything we read

389
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 1: different and we all read it differently. This one is

390
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 1: like it was fake. Truth is dead, Anna, truth is dead,

391
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 1: but you know it's not dead. Doritos, Derito's and the

392
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 1: wonderful sponsors that helped keep this show afloat with products

393
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 1: and services. We're back, Anna, You're eating a derrito, I am,

394
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 1: But I'm trying to avoid chewing into the mic because

395
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,120
Speaker 1: I know some people don't like it. Some people don't

396
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 1: like it. You know what nobody likes falsified medical studies.

397
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: People need to collapsing vaccination rates in the Western world.

398
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,400
Speaker 1: So Brian Deer put together He's got a great article

399
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 1: for the British medic Coool Journal that goes into detail

400
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,400
Speaker 1: on all this, but he put together a little summary

401
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,159
Speaker 1: that just sort of walked through how bullshit the study us.

402
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 1: So I'm going to read from that little bullet point summary.

403
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 1: The Lancet paper was a case series of twelve child patients.

404
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 1: It reported a proposed new syndrome of intero colitis and

405
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: regressive autism, and associated this with MMR as an apparent

406
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 1: precipitating event, but in fact, three of nine children reported

407
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: with regressive autism did not have autism diagnosed at all.

408
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 1: Only one child clearly had regressive autism. Despite the paper

409
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 1: claiming that all twelve children were previously normal, five had

410
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: documented pre existing developmental concerns. Some children were reported to

411
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: have experienced first behavioral symptoms within days of MMR, but

412
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: the records documented these as starting some months after vaccination.

413
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 1: In nine cases, unremarkable colonic history O pathology reports noting

414
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 1: no or minimal fluctuations and inflammatory cell populations were changed

415
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: after a medical school research review to non specific colitis.

416
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: The parents of eight children were reported as blaming MMR,

417
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 1: but eleven families made this allegation at the hospital. The

418
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: exclusion of three allegations, all giving times to onset of

419
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 1: problems in months, helped to create the appearance of a

420
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 1: fourteen day temporal link. Patients recruited through anti MMR campaigners,

421
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: and the study was commissioned and funded for planned litigation.

422
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: So it was false. It was all lies. It was

423
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 1: just nonsense. He just he found some people who are

424
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: willing to who are saying what he wanted the study

425
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: to say, and when people reported something else, he just

426
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: lied and said that they said the same thing as

427
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: the other people. I mean, that's really really bad, and

428
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: I understand that doctors were reporting on it, but it's

429
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: almost like we need a better measure to discredit someone

430
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: who is a real doctor saying lies, yeah, and that

431
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 1: that does happen in this So there was no way

432
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: Andrew Wakefield could replicate his research on a larger group

433
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 1: of patients under the watchful eye of critical experts because

434
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: his research was a sham, a cheap cash grab from

435
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: the very beginning. Wakefield refused to carry out the follow

436
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: up study, which the Royal Free College would have paid for,

437
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 1: and tried to proceed on capitalizing on the controversy stirred up.

438
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: In September two, he responded to the College quote, it

439
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: is clear that academic freedom is essential and cannot be traded.

440
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: It is the unanimous decision of my collaborators and co

441
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 1: workers that it is only appropriate that we define our

442
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: research objectives, we enact the studies is appropriately reviewed and approved,

443
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 1: and we decide as and when we deem the work

444
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 1: suitable for submission for peer review. This is how he said,

445
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to carry out another study trying to

446
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 1: prove my research works. This is so depressing, though, because

447
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: once something is out in the public eye, it's a thing,

448
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 1: and this took off like wildfire. So Wakefield's career as

449
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 1: a legitimate doctor ends at this point. He's fired. In

450
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: two thousand one. Dr Peppi's later claimed quote, we paid

451
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: him to go away, giving him two years salary upfront

452
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 1: and a statement that he was innocent of any misconduct.

453
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: What it looked bad for them too. They had helped

454
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: publicize a wildly fallacious study. Guys, come on. They also

455
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: promised not to say anything about the fact that they

456
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: knew he was a fraud. Quote. And of course one

457
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 1: of the conditions of him going away was that I

458
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to say anything critical of him to anybody

459
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 1: forever after. Dr Peppi's is clearly kind of piste bad policy.

460
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: Bad policy. In the year since, other doctors have directed

461
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: plenty of ire towards Andrew Wakefield. Two thousand three paper

462
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: published in the Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine used

463
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 1: more than a dozen epidemiological studies and concluded that there

464
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: was no evidence supporting an association between autism and the

465
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: MMR vaccine. Multiple other peer reviewed studies in the fifteen

466
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 1: years since have said the same thing. In February of

467
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 1: two ten, the editors of the lance that retracted Wakefield study.

468
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: They told The Guardian that quote, it was utterly clear,

469
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 1: without any ambiguity at all, that the statements in the

470
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: paper were utterly false. This prompted a review by the

471
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 1: General Medical Council, which in May of two thousand ten

472
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: stripped Andrew Wakefield of his medical license, among other things.

473
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: Come on, the slowness of that is like, that's white privilege, man, Yeah,

474
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: and doctor prov doctor, I think protecting their own kind.

475
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 1: And more than that, I think it's then protecting themselves.

476
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: Just like they'd hoped that this would fade away and

477
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: it didn't, and so they had to do something. No,

478
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: you have to deal with this ship out front now, Anna,

479
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: I bet you're thinking there's nothing else we could learn

480
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: about how Andrew Wakefield conducted the study. That makes it shadier.

481
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: What there's more So, he already lied about what their

482
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 1: autism was and what they were saying it was caused by,

483
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: and when it started, lied about who he was working

484
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 1: for when he started doing the fact that he was

485
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: being paid by a lawyer to prove something, the fact

486
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: that he patented a medicine specifically to try to sell it.

487
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 1: After releasing this right he'd lied about all that, but

488
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 1: it gets shadier. Okay. Yeah, So that investigation that stripped

489
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: him of his medical license found that, among other things,

490
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: Andrew Wakefield had bribed children at his son's tenth birthday

491
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: party to let him use their blood for research. Do

492
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 1: we know how heed, Oh boy, we do. Yeah. Now

493
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: there's actual video of him describing this. I found a

494
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: report about that video in a New York Times article.

495
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: The video showed him at a conference in telling the

496
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: audience about the time he lined up kids to give

497
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: blood samples at the birthday party of one of his children.

498
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 1: He needed a control group of children who did not

499
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: have autism, and this was convenient. Two children fainted, he said,

500
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: another threw up over his mother. For their service, they

501
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: were rewarded with five pounds. People said to me, Andrew,

502
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: you know you can't do this to people. Children won't

503
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: come back, he recounted. I said, you're wrong. Listen, we

504
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: live in a free market economy. Next year they'll want

505
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 1: ten pounds. Whoa First of all, that poor kid whose

506
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: birthday it was like rough birthday, rough birthday. He got bullied.

507
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: After that. They were all like, I don't want to

508
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 1: go to your birthday. You guys want to come over

509
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: to my house. No, your dad's gonna take our blood again.

510
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: But what's even crazier is not only did he take

511
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: their blood, they fainted and threw up, Like kids don't

512
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: like blood drawn at a birthday. I mean he was

513
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: taking a sizeable amount for that to happen, I have

514
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: to imagine, but also at a birthday party when they

515
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: were like filled with cake and excited. And I don't know,

516
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: Andrew Wakefield, We've all had blood drawn as kids. There's

517
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: some nurses and doctors that are really good at it,

518
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: that are good at like interfacing with the kid and

519
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: making it comforting. And there's some doctors that's like, no,

520
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: I'm just going to do this and it sucks. I'm

521
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 1: gonna guess he was one of the bad. He wasn't

522
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: good at Everyone is complicit. This is my lesson from

523
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: all of this. The people at that birthday party, but

524
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: the adults besides him should have been like, I wonder

525
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: what the conversations were you just like sitting at the

526
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: side of the room. Is he taking my son's blood?

527
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: Should probably have some scammy argument where he was like,

528
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm doing a test and to advance Medical science, DOBE.

529
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: That is how he sounded. That was how he sounded,

530
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 1: and everyone was stupid. Gotten a lot of a lot

531
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 1: of accent play out of these episodes now uh. The

532
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: General Medical Council concluded that Wakefield had acted with quote

533
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: callous disregard for the distress and pain the children would suffer,

534
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: which is a good summary of his career. None of this,

535
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 1: and none of Brian Deer's fantastic reporting, has been enough

536
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: to kill rumors of a correlation between vaccination and autism.

537
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: By two thousand and eight, the British national vaccination rates

538
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: against MMR went from above nine to below Every measle's

539
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: outbreak we've had since can be traced to Andrew Wakefield's research,

540
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: and the movement had helped reignite. In the years since

541
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: all this broke, Andrew Wakefield has continued to be a

542
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: shady con man. In two thousand four, before his license

543
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: was taken away, he fled Britain for Austin, Texas, figuring

544
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: that it would be an easier place to continue to

545
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: be a greasy disease grifter. If Alex Jones has taught

546
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: us anything, he was probably wise to do that. The

547
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: next New York Times article on Wakefield was titled The

548
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: Crash and Burn of an Autism Guru. It's author, Susan Dominus,

549
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: caught up with Wakefield about a year after he was

550
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: stripped of his licen The picture he paints of him

551
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: is of a bitter con man quote. For Wakefield, the

552
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: attacks had become a kind of affirmation. The more he

553
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: must defend his research, the more important he seems to

554
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: consider it, so important that powerful forces have conspired and

555
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: aligned against him. He said he believes that they public

556
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: health officials pharmaceutical companies pay bloggers to plant vicious comments

557
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: about him on the web because it's always the same,

558
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: he says, discredited doctor Andrew Wakefield. Discredited doctor Andrew Wakefield.

559
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: He also wouldn't be surprised if public health officials were

560
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: inflating the number of measles mortalities, just as he thinks

561
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: they inflate the risk of the flu to increase the

562
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: uptake of that vaccine. Having been rejected by mainstream medicine, Wakefield,

563
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: the son of wore regarded doctors in Britain, has apparently

564
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: rejected the integrity of mainstream medicine. In return, I hope

565
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: he dies of a disease. Yeah, I mean to say,

566
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: come on a podcast now, where we can be a

567
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: little dark, where we can wish death on people. Fine

568
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: to call out doctors for inflating fear around the flu

569
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: while he literally created a crisis, created a fear to

570
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: sell his measles vaccine. Yeah, what you know, it's the

571
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: pot calling the kettle of vaccine denialist agitator. I'm deeply

572
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: lost in the metaphor. I didn't know, but yeah, he sucks.

573
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: So that article that noted that Wakefield still enjoyed a

574
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: healthy fan base and was able to pack two fifty

575
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: paying customers into a church near Austin to hear Wakefield

576
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: talk about his research for a subset of desperate parents,

577
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: most of whom were struggling with children who suffer from

578
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: severe complications due to autism. Andrew has become something of

579
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: a cult leader. Here's the New York Times. Many complied

580
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: with lavish thanks. We stand by you, and thank you

581
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: for the many sacrifices you have made for the cause.

582
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: When he finally took the podium, the audience members, mostly

583
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: parents of autistic children, stood and applauded wildly. Some of

584
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: Wakefield's cult status is surely because of his person charisma,

585
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: and he spoke with a great rhetorical flare. He took

586
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: off his glasses and put them back on, like a

587
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: gifted actor maximizing a prop. What happens to me doesn't matter,

588
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: he said at one point, what happens to these children

589
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: does matter. Why do all conments down the same because

590
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: it works like as you're describing him, I'm like, well

591
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: that sounds like Trump. Yeah. Yeah, they're they're all more

592
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: alike than they are different. They would all get together

593
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: at the same sort of parties where they would probably

594
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: all bribe children for their blood, pretending they're not self

595
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: interested when they're literally just conning scared people out of

596
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: their money. Yeah, yea, yea yeah yeah. And for some reference,

597
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: actual heroic people never talk like that because they're too

598
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: busy doing good things, saving the world and such. Since

599
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: moving to America in two thousand and four, Wakefield has

600
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: tried repeatedly to cash in on his hero status among

601
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: the AMT vaccine crowd. In two thousand and thirteen, The

602
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: Guardian caught up with him at a convention for the

603
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: reality TV industry. He'd paid six dollars for a chance

604
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: to pitch his idea for a new TV show to

605
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: executives from Discovery, National Geographic and TLC. Now. The pilot

606
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: for this new business venture was a TV show called

607
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: Autism Team. Oh No, not a great title. I've watched

608
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: an excerpt from this uh, and I think it would

609
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: be most accurately described as sickness porn. It includes a

610
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: lot of long, lingering shots of suffering children. Received a

611
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,479
Speaker 1: lot of criticism from autism sufferers because it doesn't really

612
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: focus at all in the humanity of these people. It's

613
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: just sort of seeing a kids suffer and then a

614
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: doctor will come in and diagnose the kid with autism

615
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: associated indoclitis, the syndrome Andrew Wakefield invented, and then yeah,

616
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: it's it feels like resistance against him and his conning

617
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: has to come a little from like people without autism

618
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: and people like connected to autism being like, no, don't

619
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: stop praying on this, Yeah, stop making a dollar off

620
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: of something that is like, really, I have a pretty

621
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: white view because the kids I worked with UM were

622
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: very low functioning for the most part. UM So these

623
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: were kids who their parents had to live with the

624
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: knowledge that, like number one, their kid was never going

625
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: to live independently, was never going to be able to

626
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: work a job or hold like normal relationships. And I

627
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: was going to have to go to a home when

628
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: they died um and in some cases before because like

629
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: these parents would know that when I get too old

630
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: to sort of like sometimes these kids could be violent.

631
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: They need to be physically restrained. When I got too

632
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: old to deal with that, my son or my daughter

633
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: is going to live in a home without me, And

634
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: that's horrifying and to have to deal with um. And

635
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: so yeah, it just it infuriates me thinking about turning

636
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: that into a reality TV show to talk about how

637
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: great a doctor you are. Yeah, I mean it's really

638
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: gross such a certainly in nineteen I would hope like

639
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: public opinion would turn against a show like that, being

640
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: like no, And it didn't get picked up because it

641
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: was like, I like, the reason I'm not playing it

642
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: for you is that it's really not it's boring too.

643
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: It wasn't not a good preview clip or whatever. But

644
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: I am going to read a summary of an episode

645
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: from the Guardian. John's mother, John is one of the

646
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: suffering kids, says Kriggsman's diagnosis is the answer to everything,

647
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: and Krigsman is the doctor that they had to bring

648
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 1: in cause Andrew Wakefield is not a doctor anymore. John's

649
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: father tells us the subsequent change in his son has

650
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: been absolutely dramatic. Finally, the short teaser wraps. The narrator

651
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: says that groundbreaking work by the Autism team means that

652
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: children can be treated effectively. So join us and follow

653
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 1: their journey. So, yeah, Wakefield did not find a buyer

654
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: for that totally awesome show, but he did wind up

655
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: directing a feature film a little bit later. Yeah, Vaxed

656
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: is the name of the documentary. Yeah, it built itself

657
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: as quote an investigation into the CDC's destruction of a

658
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: study linking autism to the MMR vaccine. Was it, of

659
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: course not. I'm shaking my head there. Uh, and yes,

660
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: you'd better believe he showed up on Info Wars to

661
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: promote it. In this clip, he starts, he's been on

662
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: inf Wars a lot. By the way, Yeah, he's a

663
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,959
Speaker 1: frequent guest of Alex Jones's. Okay, now starting to make sense.

664
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: These terrible people are all friends. I'd be one about

665
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: Andrew Wakefield's party with Steven Seagal, like they all know

666
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 1: each other. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So in this clip,

667
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: he starts by claiming to Alex Jones that he found

668
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: a CDC whistle blower who was willing on record to

669
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: say that he designed a study which proved a connection

670
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: between autism and the MMR vaccine and then watched the

671
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: CDC cover it up. That's the claim he's making an

672
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: Info Wars is the claim it's being made in the documentary.

673
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: So Wakefield presents this CDC whistle blower as being overwhelmed

674
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: by his conscience and needing to come clean. Alex declares,

675
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: not a doctor Andrew Wakefield to be an American hero.

676
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 1: I'm gonna play a little clip of Andrew Wakefield talking

677
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: on inf Wars. Well, you're admirable because every time I

678
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: have you in here, here at the cutting edge of

679
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: working with family is trying to put the truth out

680
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: you name it, lawsuits. You've just been proven vindicated in

681
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: the Spade's a true trailblazer. I know you don't like that,

682
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: the true hero, Andrew Weggfield. You every wanna talk about

683
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: yourself being vindicated. It's always we have a top whistle blower,

684
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: the head of the program. You know, hired to cover

685
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: it up, did all the studies. He's now gone public.

686
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: The media won't cover it. You're just still worried about

687
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: the millions of kids getting brain damaged. Alex. It's not

688
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: about me. It's not about me at tool. I'm just

689
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: a guy trying to do a job and trying to

690
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 1: and being prevented. So I'm really just obstinate. But I'm

691
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: not going to go away. I'm not going to duck

692
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: for this issue. It's far too important. It's going to

693
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: be from the estimates in the movie one and two,

694
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 1: children born in T two are going to have autism.

695
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: That is absolutely unacceptable. So whatever the media say about me,

696
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: whatever the politicians, sam I mean, it doesn't matter, because

697
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 1: I don't matter. It isn't. What matters is the future

698
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: of this country, and the future of this country is

699
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: its children. So I do want to hit a little

700
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 1: bit on the conspiracy theorist vaccine people will often say

701
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: that like my twenty thirty or ever, one out of

702
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: every two children will have autism, to believe that it's

703
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: something being spread by these vaccines, that's nonsense. The number

704
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: of people with autism has shot up massively in the

705
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: last couple of decades because they didn't used to know

706
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: it was a thing, and they used to think that,

707
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: like all these different syndromes that we now know are

708
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: different kind of expressions of autism were totally different illnesses

709
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: and stuff of sense. And the even bigger part of

710
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: it is that it used to basically just be white

711
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: kids who got diagnosed with autism, because you had to

712
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: have some money to be able to go to a

713
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: doctor for this, and if you were a black kid

714
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: or a Hispanic kid it came from a poor area,

715
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: they'd just be like, oh, you're just bad at learning,

716
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: like yeah or yeah, and they wouldn't get to go

717
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: to the doctor over yeah, you're you're just different. And

718
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: now that medicine is less racist, we're realizing that it's

719
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: more common than we thought, and we're be getting better

720
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: at recognizing and we like, now they recognize that it's

721
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: a spectrum, and so all these people who would never

722
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: have been diagnosed as having anything everything like, well, no,

723
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: you're on some level of the spectrum. Right. Spectrum has

724
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: totally changed the way. It's just the fact that we

725
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: didn't get this ship and it's not new. Autisms exist

726
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: as long as there's been human beings we just didn't

727
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: like it just used to be that like, oh this person, Wow,

728
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: the way that their mind works is really different, which

729
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: they didn't have, Like fucking tons of Greek philosophers and

730
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: scientists probably had some kind of autism, Like yeah, and

731
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: does he acknowledge spectrum? And uh, you know, I don't.

732
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: I don't know enough about what he says about autism

733
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: because it's not an autism expert and gastro and urologist

734
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: who lost his medical exactly. And it feels pretty fearmongry

735
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: to say one and two people will have autism, as

736
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: if it evokes like low functioning autism, which is not

737
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: inherently bad. I feel like there's no there's this like

738
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: it's fearmongering, and I don't think it helps people see

739
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: the humanity and people with autism. It's it is that

740
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: like suffering porn. It is that suffering porn. And I

741
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: do want to state, you know, I just talked about

742
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: working with the really low functioning kids. I also want

743
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 1: to like my jobs when I was teaching in special

744
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: ed was to work with this kid who had pretty

745
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: severe aspert or cinder, but was very smart and was

746
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: like he was an expert. We would go on walks

747
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: and I would try to get like trying to socialize

748
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: and getting used to like having conversations. And his thing

749
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: was pumps, like like fountain pumps, And anytime we walked

750
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: past like a pump in an apartment complex, he would

751
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: explain how the whole thing was assembled underground, just looking

752
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 1: at the top and he would he'd like would design

753
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: them for fun. And the president of a company that

754
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: designed pumps for like Las Vegas and stuff like like

755
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: the Bellagio flew out to Dallas to like meet with

756
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: this kid and like talking them and be like, when

757
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 1: you graduate, send us a resume because like you're like

758
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: the it's it's I don't know, like the idea, like

759
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: both the making it out to be this horrible, doomed

760
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 1: thing um and the suffering porn. Like it's all really

761
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: gross to me. It oversimplifies something that's very complicated. Absolutely, yeah, yeah,

762
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: but that's just the tip of how infuriating that clip. What, Yeah,

763
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 1: it's really bad. I I I'm glad. I hadn't even

764
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: read that he'd been on info Wars. I just thought, Oh,

765
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: he's in Austin. I bet he's been on aug What

766
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: a good assumption. Oh, Alex Jones loves that he is

767
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: a British accent. Probably sounds so legitimate anytime he can

768
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: get a British person on that. Oh my god, you

769
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: better believe it. I love when he says it's not

770
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: about me, it's not about me. It's it's not about me.

771
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: I can't I'm not going to know that was doing

772
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: his accent, but like, no, no, you scamp people. Okay,

773
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: you know what it's time for and we're back. My god,

774
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: those ads. I you know what I love about ads

775
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: is the way it makes me aware of the products

776
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: and services that I can look into purchasing for myself

777
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: and my loved ones. Oh yeah, that's what I like

778
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: about them. Not to pushy, just just right, just just

779
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: putting information out there. Now. Wakefield's documentary, you know, in

780
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: that in that clip on info Wars, he claims that

781
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: he's got this interview with this guy from the CDC,

782
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: Dr Thompson, and the documentary basically claims that this guy

783
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: the research proved that there was a connection between MMR

784
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: and autism, and the CDC covered it up, and this

785
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: guy's blowing the whistle on it. That's not what happened.

786
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: Dr William Thompson was in fact critical of a single

787
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: two thousand and four study that did fail to find

788
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: a link between the MMR vaccine and autism. He had

789
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: issues with the way the study was conducted that he

790
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 1: believed needed to be fixed, but he never requested that

791
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: his name be removed from the paper, which would have

792
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: been the first step of scientist who wanted to disavow

793
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: a piece of research would take. Wakefield's documentary includes interviews

794
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: with Dr Thompson that have been carefully edited to give

795
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: the impression that he is alleging to cover up rather

796
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: than just angry about several very specific issues with the study.

797
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,720
Speaker 1: I'll put a link on our website behind the Bastard's

798
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: dot com to an article that breaks down exactly what

799
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: Wakefield did. But the short version is that he just

800
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: chopped up a long, complex interview in order to put

801
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: lies in someone else's mouth. Actual public published transcript up

802
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: the full interview painted very different picture. I checked out

803
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 1: the website for VACT because I wanted to get an

804
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: idea for how Andrew Wakefield presents himself to a sympathetic audience.

805
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: But I found was pretty cringe worthy. Here's an exerpt

806
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: from a section of the website called who is Andrew Wakefield?

807
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: If you heard Andrew Wakefield's name, and you probably have,

808
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: you've heard two tales. You've heard that Dr Wakefield is

809
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: a charlatan, an unethical researcher, and a huckster who was

810
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: erased from the British Medical Registry in whose nine article

811
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: on autism and gastro intestinal disease was retracted by a

812
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: leading medical journal. You've also heard a very different story

813
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: that Dr Wakefield is a brilliant and courageous scientist, a

814
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: compassionate physician, beloved by his patients, and a champion for

815
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 1: families with autism and vaccine injury. What's the truth? Anyone

816
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: who writes that about themselves is not courageous and brilliant.

817
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: And speaking of the last episode you were on, sounds

818
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,720
Speaker 1: more than a little bit like Keith Renieries biography of himself.

819
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: I don't understand why I get how scam artists work.

820
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: I get out you listen to like Mumbo Jumbo and

821
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: it's in a soothing voice, and you're like, well, maybe,

822
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: but once they start bragging about themselves and how great

823
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: they are that's like the alarm sounds for me. No,

824
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: especially like just as a journalist, whenever somebody starts bragging

825
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: about themselves in that way, you kind of like, no, Okay,

826
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,919
Speaker 1: I probably shouldn't be listening to anything you have to say.

827
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: You're probably a connorst trying to sell something. Yeah, well

828
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: that's not how it works though, So yeah, well, okay.

829
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: The truth is that thanks in large Part two no

830
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: longer a Dr Andrew Wakefield, vaccination rates have fallen in

831
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: numerous Western countries. It took twenty years for rates in

832
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 1: Great Britain to return to their pre Wakefield levels. Time

833
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: Magazine claims that quote, by the end the UK families

834
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: had experienced more than twelve tho cases of measles and

835
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: hundreds of hospitalizations, many with serious complications, and at least

836
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 1: three deaths. That's some careful wording, because he's saying vaccinations

837
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: are falling. Vaccination rates fell and then there were disease outbreaks.

838
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: But like he's taking credit for a vaccination rates. This

839
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: is Time Magazine immediately after like vaccination rate, he was

840
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: bragging about making the vaccination rates. No, he thinks they're

841
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 1: lying about how many measles cases there are because all

842
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: of the evidence suggests that, oh, right after you published

843
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: the study, people started getting vaccinated less, and then there

844
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: were multiple daily measles outbreaks. Maybe there was two are connected,

845
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: Maybe you caused them. Now it's probably impossible to put

846
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: together an accurate account of the number of deaths and

847
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: hospitalizations due to Andrew Wakefield and two thousand ten, there

848
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: was a whooping cough outbreak in California, the worst in

849
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: fifty years. It was spread by a kid whose parents

850
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: had non medical exemptions for school vaccination requirements. Later research

851
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: showed that most whooping cough cases occurred in clusters of

852
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: unvaccinated children, causing nine thousand one infections and ten deaths.

853
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 1: Two eighteen study published by the National Institute of Health

854
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: drew a direct line between Wakefield's research and a worldwide epidemic,

855
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: saying that as a result of the movement he ignited

856
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 1: quote ultiple breakouts of measles have occurred throughout different parts

857
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: of the Western world, infecting dozens of the patients and

858
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: even causing deaths. In the UK and nineteen fifty six

859
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: people contracted measles in two thousand six, this number increased

860
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: to four hundred and forty nine in the first five

861
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: months of the year, with the first death since nineteen

862
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: ninety two and two thousand eight, measles was declared endemic

863
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: in the UK for the first time in fourteen years,

864
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: and Ireland an outbreak occurred in two thousand and fifteen

865
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 1: hundred cases and three deaths were reported. The outbreak was

866
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: reported to have occurred as a direct result of a

867
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 1: drop in vaccination rates following the MMR controversy. In France,

868
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: more than twenty two thousand cases of measles were reported

869
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 1: from two thousand eight to two thousand and eleven. The

870
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: United States has not been an exception, with outbreaks occurring

871
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: most recently in two thousand eight, two thousand eleven, and

872
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen. As I write this, several dozen people

873
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: have been hospitalized with measles in the Pacific Northwest. More

874
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: are likely to have fallen sick. By the time you

875
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 1: hear this episode, every one of those people can thank

876
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: Dr Andrew Wakefield for what they're about to endure and

877
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: only hopefully survive. Wow, that's my episode on Andrew Wakefield.

878
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 1: He's so bad, He's real bad. It's so crazy that

879
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: that one study did so much damage It is kind

880
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: of like, you know, people always talk about like you

881
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: could change the world. One person can change the world.

882
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: They can't. They sure can't. They can't. That's not always

883
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 1: a good thing. Yeah. Yeah, wow, that's why I'm always

884
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: really like cag about using language like that around kids,

885
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: like shoot for the Stars, you could do anything. It's like, well,

886
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: you know that's true in good cases, but like Hitler

887
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: believed that too. Yeah. Yeah, he was just a poor

888
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 1: kid who wanted to achieve things. Yeah, ambition on its

889
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: own is not good. Maybe don't encourage ambition. Maybe just

890
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: encourage people to be happy, yeah, or to do things

891
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: for other people. Yeah, the ambition to because it's complicated

892
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: because like a lot of these vacs, like the Jonah Salk,

893
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: the polio vaccine guy was a guy who just grew

894
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 1: up seeing everybody diapolio and was like, fuck polio. I'm

895
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna fuck this disease up. So that's a

896
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: good ambition. Yeah. So I guess I wonder what's our

897
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: defense against this stuff, because it's like Alex Jones, some

898
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: of his stuff is like whatever, people don't actually believe

899
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: in gay frogs words video where he dresses like a

900
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 1: frog and hops around. That sounds delightful, But this is

901
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,439
Speaker 1: so weirdly mainstream, is like you were saying, like people

902
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,439
Speaker 1: on the left and the right at a certain point

903
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: believe it. Yeah, and I uh, I don't know what

904
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: to tell you, Like I think that the only I

905
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: honestly think that, Like if we're drawing a connection all

906
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: the major problems of our current era, like you know,

907
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: anti vac like vaccine denial, the apologist for people like

908
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: Buthar al Assad who think that he's a socialist hero

909
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: who's been maligned by the media, like the rise of

910
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: Nazism in the Western world. I think this all has

911
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: the same connection, which is that like our our schools

912
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: are shitty and like people aren't taught critical thinking and

913
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: taught how to like you wait and know when someone's

914
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: lying to them and like it all it's the same

915
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: reason why cut Co like got so many young people

916
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: to like go out to try to trick them into

917
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: believing they had a job when they were just like

918
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: joining an MLM to sell shitty knives. Like yeah, we

919
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: just need to be better at teaching people to recognize

920
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: when they're being scammed, better at critical thinking. We need

921
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: a vaccine for scams. And that's what that's what an

922
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: education should be like. People should there should be classes

923
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 1: in every school about like here, I don't know if

924
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: someone's trying to scam you, here's how to here's how

925
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: to recognize grifters. These are the words they use. It

926
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: sounds like the vaccine against scamming could be this podcast.

927
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: Sounds like the vaccine against scamming could be this podcast.

928
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: So play this podcast to your children, play it to

929
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: strange children on the street, abduct children who live near

930
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: you and force them to listen to it, and then

931
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: take their blood, and then take their blood, take any

932
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: kids blood you want, because that's fine. Uh, this is

933
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: Sophie's even it might get us in some legal trouble,

934
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: all right. If you abduct a child, tell them Joe

935
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: Rogan's podcast told you to do it. Yes, yes, that's perfect.

936
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: Laime it on Rogan. And if you take their blood,

937
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: double down, double down on Joe Rogan. Yeah, yeah, I

938
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: feel like we're safe now, all right? By a T

939
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: shirt public behind the bastards, Uh, you can use the

940
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: T shirts to bind the arms of a child in

941
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: order to make them listen to the show. Oh boy,

942
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: I'm in some an you want to plug some stuff. Yeah,

943
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: you can find me on Instagram bad comics with an

944
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: x by on. I make web comics about anxiety and

945
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: depression and stuff, and that's also my handle on Twitter.

946
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: Hit me up if you have thoughts about anything. I

947
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: feel like I said some things on this podcast that

948
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 1: we're blanket statements, and I am afraid that I will

949
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 1: be fact checked. All blanket statements are accurate. Um, I'm

950
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: Robert Evans. Uh. You can find me on Twitter at

951
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: I right. Okay. You can find this podcast on the

952
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: inner webs at behind the Bastards dot com. You can

953
00:49:55,120 --> 00:50:00,280
Speaker 1: find us on Instagram and Twitter at at bastards pod. Uh. Anna,

954
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 1: we have one more episode to get through about an

955
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: even guy, just another terrible doctor. Uh. It's gonna be

956
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: a fun It'll be a short one, but you can

957
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: all get to listen to that. Tomorrow we're gonna be

958
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: talking about Dr Bob Sears. Strap in boys and girls

959
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,760
Speaker 1: and people who don't identify as either gender and whoever.

960
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: I don't I don't care, Like, do you just strap in? Yeah?

961
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: Anyone can strap in. Anyone can strap in, especially if

962
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: you've abducted a child. All right at the end of

963
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: the episode,