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Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Wednesday, December, third day three

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Speaker 1: of the Brian Walsh trial. Frankly got a little graphic

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Speaker 1: and with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.

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Speaker 2: Robes.

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Speaker 1: There were exhibits today that I guess gives a kind

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Speaker 1: of a cave, kind of a graphic idea of a violent,

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Speaker 1: potentially violent death. That's right, Yes, she had. And I

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Speaker 1: think you said just a moment ago that that got

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Speaker 1: youa Today.

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Speaker 2: It did because in this case we don't have a body,

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Speaker 2: they don't have an autopsy. Sometimes jurors are shown autopsy

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Speaker 2: photos and certainly look at autopsy reports, so they have

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Speaker 2: to take in a lot. In this case, there is

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Speaker 2: none of that. So it was interesting to me the

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Speaker 2: impact it had just seeing what the jurors saw. And

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Speaker 2: they were just photos, photos of weapons that were recovered

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Speaker 2: and normally they're considered tools, but tools that were turned

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Speaker 2: into weapons that were wrapped up in trash bags found

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Speaker 2: in those dumpsters near Brian Walsh's mom's home. And they

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Speaker 2: just showed the hammer, the wire snips, the hatchet, the

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Speaker 2: hack saw with red brown stains. If you were listening

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Speaker 2: to this trial today, you kept hearing those three words

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Speaker 2: with red brown stains. It almost became comical because that's

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Speaker 2: how much they were repeating all of the items they

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Speaker 2: found with this substance, which obviously you think is blood,

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Speaker 2: but it's almost as if they were like etching it

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Speaker 2: in the jurors minds.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that was repeated quite a bit today, and

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Speaker 1: every time it was said, it was being shown graphic

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Speaker 1: detail in some way on the screen. But the day

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Speaker 1: a guy going today, and they had several witnesses, and

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Speaker 1: frankly several of these the defense didn't even ask a

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Speaker 1: single question of cross examination. It wasn't I mean, it

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Speaker 1: was housekeeping for the most part, making sure they determined, okay,

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Speaker 1: she did travel when and where and did she take

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Speaker 1: an uber and she didn't. Right, they had a couple

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Speaker 1: of Uber drivers and whatnot up there. This was all

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Speaker 1: just to establish that she was out of town, that

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Speaker 1: she didn't leave town, and whatnot her whereabouts. So that

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Speaker 1: was a lot of housekeeping in that. But the first

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Speaker 1: witness robes was the guy who was testifying yesterday, the

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Speaker 1: state trooper who handled.

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Speaker 2: All the Google certainty.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all that stuff. Now he started making some points today.

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Speaker 1: The defense attorney that had me sit up had me

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Speaker 1: perk up a little bit, and I couldn't believe he

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Speaker 1: had some answers that maybe had the jurors thinking.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because he wanted the state trooper to read some

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Speaker 2: of the searches that were left out of testimony, and

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Speaker 2: there were so many, you know, there are so many

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Speaker 2: other searches. So he asked him to read some of

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Speaker 2: the other searches that were found on Brian Walsh's computer,

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Speaker 2: like body disposal options, cool ways to be buried above ground,

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Speaker 2: burial options.

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Speaker 1: Now, what does that say to you?

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Speaker 2: So that says that if those were the only searches,

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Speaker 2: then I would be more inclined to believe what Brian

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Speaker 2: Walsh's attorneys are trying to sell that he panicked after

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Speaker 2: his wife suddenly and inexplicably died. So yes, if those

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Speaker 2: were the only searches that would back up his story

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Speaker 2: for sure, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So then what if the next part of that, and

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Speaker 1: I know the part that bothers is he used the

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Speaker 1: word murder in a search his attorney Today, the defense

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Speaker 1: attorney is pointing out just how little he used it

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Speaker 1: and when he used it as being a big deal. Now,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine that I would listen to that. But

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Speaker 1: I gave that argument some thought, why did he do

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Speaker 1: it so little and why did he do it so late?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the first reference to murder was actually six

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Speaker 2: hours into his searches. So he was using all sorts

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Speaker 2: of other different ways to describe, like we just referenced

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Speaker 2: body disposal options, cool ways to be varied, And it

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Speaker 2: wasn't until six hours later that he did that first

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Speaker 2: search that had murder.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of that? What can we possibly

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Speaker 1: make of that? If he was panicked, if he was

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Speaker 1: all of these things, And as soon as he started searching,

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Speaker 1: it was only about disposal, it was only about dismember

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Speaker 1: what all that other stuff, And he didn't think to

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Speaker 1: type in murder until six plus hours later. I think

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Speaker 1: the defensive attorney was making an argument that it wasn't

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Speaker 1: top of mind. He's making the point that he was

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Speaker 1: trying to get different results through a bunch of searches. Man,

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Speaker 1: the timeline could make somebody go oh okay.

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Speaker 2: I would also say that the other side of that

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Speaker 2: could be that perhaps he was in such a fog

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Speaker 2: and trying to figure out how to deal with the

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Speaker 2: issue at hand, which was a body, and then when

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Speaker 2: it kind of everything sunk in. He was maybe almost

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Speaker 2: owning it in his mind, almost acknowledging maybe something he

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Speaker 2: wasn't really trying or wasn't thinking about, which is the

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Speaker 2: fact that he just murdered his wife. And so maybe

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Speaker 2: it became something he was almost owning or accepting over time.

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Speaker 2: That could be another argument.

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Speaker 1: Okay, there is an argument. So if that is a possibility,

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Speaker 1: is it also a possibility that he did not kill her? Right?

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Speaker 1: If we want to be open to the possibility you

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Speaker 1: just gave what's more likely? I don't know, but in

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Speaker 1: that we talked to the attorney the other day and

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Speaker 1: she leaned into the camera talking to us and said,

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Speaker 1: she put her finger out one. I just need one

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Speaker 1: on that jury.

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Speaker 2: M Well, I wouldn't be the one. That's what I

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Speaker 2: can tell you about that. And I agree, I totally

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Speaker 2: get it. You just have to somehow put a little

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Speaker 2: bit of doubt, enough doubt in one juror and you've

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Speaker 2: got you're not guilty verdict.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm saying when I first heard the search, how

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Speaker 1: do you dispose of a body after a murder?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Like he's done? This is what what can you what

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Speaker 1: can you argue? With that, and they found an argument

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Speaker 1: that's not out of this world.

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Speaker 2: It was creative, I'll give them that. The other thing

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Speaker 2: that was really interesting to me was in cross examination,

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Speaker 2: the defense attorney also had this date trooper acknowledge because

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Speaker 2: they had testified. He had testified earlier to the fact

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Speaker 2: that Brian Walsh had been on divorce websites and had

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Speaker 2: spent time searching for divorce related searches, but on that

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Speaker 2: very same day they also he testified that Brian Walsh

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Speaker 2: went to his bank several times to check basically who

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Speaker 2: knows what, but checking accounts, then went to go look

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Speaker 2: at some Porsches for sale, okay, but then also went

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Speaker 2: to a diamond website where you go to Blue Nile

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Speaker 2: dot com. So, if this is someone who's trying to

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Speaker 2: divorce his wife or is considering divorce, why would he

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Speaker 2: be shopping for diamond rings. Why would if he was

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Speaker 2: worried about, you know, the future, why would he be

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Speaker 2: looking at a Porsche. So that was a little interesting

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Speaker 2: to me, the diamond the diamond website thing, because he's

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Speaker 2: not been accused of having someone on the side. He's

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Speaker 2: not accused of having a girlfriend the way shape of course,

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Speaker 2: it would have you make. I thought that was the

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Speaker 2: one thing that that piqud my interest today.

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Speaker 1: So what the point they're trying to make is is

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Speaker 1: take away the idea of a motive that he was

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Speaker 1: trying to end his marriage or wanted his to get

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Speaker 1: his wife out of the way. He was planning for

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Speaker 1: the future, and this was at a time when he

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Speaker 1: didn't know anybody was going to see his Internet searches.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of that?

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Speaker 2: I think it's interesting. I think there's something there.

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Speaker 1: There's something there divorce. Now we've been hearing that was

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Speaker 1: the other thing. I think the prosecution was pointing out

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Speaker 1: searches that included divorce. They made it sound like this

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Speaker 1: dude was looking for the best states of divorce, right,

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Speaker 1: that was one of the searches es terms out divorce

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Speaker 1: searches took up in the fifteen days of data that

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Speaker 1: they reviewed fifteen days, twenty one minutes, only a twenty

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Speaker 1: one minute span did anything related to divorce come up.

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Speaker 1: That mean he wasn't obsessing over it, He wasn't doing

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Speaker 1: a whole lot. Whatever it came up.

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Speaker 2: And whatever was a celebrity divorce too, rite Kati Katie Holmes.

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Speaker 2: It was something about Katie Holmes divorce. So that also

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Speaker 2: made the point like, Okay, he wasn't actually looking up

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Speaker 2: how to get divorced or you know when's a good

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Speaker 2: time to get divorced, or how expensive is divorce? Part

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Speaker 2: of that was looking up a celebrities divorce. So that

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Speaker 2: also was good defense work, right.

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Speaker 1: It just made you think, it's so interesting when these

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Speaker 1: guys when you think that really after day two, After

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Speaker 1: day two, you and I both sat in guilty.

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Speaker 2: Why are we even watching this trial? You did?

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Speaker 1: And now here we are now the I guess the

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Speaker 1: point rose when he got I said graphic at the

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Speaker 1: top that was in the crime lab specialist. He was

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Speaker 1: the one that handled the bags that were recovered from

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Speaker 1: the dumpster. I didn't realize it was as many bags

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Speaker 1: that they had recovered, but ten or so. And they

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Speaker 1: show a picture the bags, pictures of the contents and

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Speaker 1: I guess a lot of it robes, And they kept

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Speaker 1: using the same phrase to describe it had particular stains

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Speaker 1: on it that they kept pointing out, Oh.

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Speaker 2: That's right, And so it was difficult to hear that

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Speaker 2: back and forth. But we're talking robes, towels, and as

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Speaker 2: we mentioned, some of the equipment that they believe was

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Speaker 2: used in either dismembering her or in murdering her. But

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Speaker 2: I do think once again, the Brian Walsh's attorney made

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Speaker 2: a pretty decent as much as you could point when

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Speaker 2: he cross examined the crime lab specialist after he talked,

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Speaker 2: because they kept saying red brown stains, red brown stains.

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Speaker 2: You're seeing picture pictures and images of clearly blood soaked

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Speaker 2: materials that were all in these bags that we now

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Speaker 2: know were dumped there by Brian Walsh. But his attorney said,

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Speaker 2: can you tell me that all of these items? Could

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Speaker 2: they not have been stained after they were thrown out,

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Speaker 2: after they were already in this dumpster? The condition of

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Speaker 2: the bags that were ripped in all of this, And

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Speaker 2: the crime lab specialist said, I cannot, I cannot tell

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Speaker 2: you that those stains were there before they were disposed of.

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Speaker 2: So I thought that was pretty good lawyering right there.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't quite a very amazing moment, no, but it

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Speaker 1: was to hear someone admit, I can just tell you

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Speaker 1: what's on it. I got no idea where it came from.

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Speaker 2: And when it got there and how it got there.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's just he's doing the best he can

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Speaker 2: with what he has. He's working with what he has.

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Speaker 1: With what he has. But we had a little surprise

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Speaker 1: ending to the day. The judge let the jury go

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Speaker 1: home early, about a half hour early, and they had

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Speaker 1: a very important issue to take up with the jury

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Speaker 1: out of the room, an issue that could help decide

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Speaker 1: the case.

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Speaker 2: We'll explain.

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Speaker 1: Stay here, all right, Welcome back, We continue day three

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Speaker 1: of the Brian Walsh trial. Is in the books, just

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Speaker 1: mentioned a moment ago that the jury got to go

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Speaker 1: home a little early. This the judge has kept things

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Speaker 1: really really on time so far, trying to make the

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Speaker 1: best use of the time, but she let them go

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Speaker 1: a little surprised. We didn't know what was going on.

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Speaker 1: There were did you know there were a bunch of sidebars.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, all of a sudden because we're watching it,

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Speaker 2: we're kind of doing other things, mostly listening to it,

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden it would go completely silent

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Speaker 2: and then either they either have the back of Brian

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Speaker 2: Walsh's head or the ceiling fan. But yes, there were many,

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Speaker 2: many moments where they were having sidebars.

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Speaker 1: So with the sidebars, maybe this was part of the issue.

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Speaker 1: But this is a big one. As folks know, he

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Speaker 1: is on trial right now for murder, for murdering his wife.

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Speaker 1: He was also charged with two other things for dismembering

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Speaker 1: the body.

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Speaker 2: Disposing of it and misleading misleading police.

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Speaker 1: All right, he said he copped to that, said guilty.

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Speaker 1: He did that right when this trial was starting. The

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Speaker 1: question now for the judge to decide is if she's

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Speaker 1: going to let this jury hear that he pled guilty

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Speaker 1: to those charges. It sounds like she didn't know what

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Speaker 1: she's going to do.

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Speaker 2: No, And I think it's interesting too, because here's the deal.

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Speaker 2: The jury is hearing all about the implication of dismemberment,

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Speaker 2: and they also already heard Brian Walsh's attorneys say he

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Speaker 2: misled authorities, he lied to police. So I wonder I

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Speaker 2: would think the defense would want the guilty police in

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Speaker 2: because you would think the jury could infer Well wow,

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Speaker 2: he admitted that, and he's now not admitting the murder.

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Speaker 2: Well that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: So wow.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not sure who is fighting what, because I

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Speaker 2: know probably the most important thing for the judge right

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Speaker 2: now is to make sure whatever she decides doesn't end

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Speaker 2: up being used as an excuse for a mistrial. So

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Speaker 2: it's confusing. I had never heard of someone pleading guilty

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Speaker 2: to something fairly significant, but not pleading guilty to something

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Speaker 2: that would kind of go along with.

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Speaker 1: The crime to go together. Right, he's saying they don't.

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Speaker 1: And to your point, I didn't think about that as

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Speaker 1: a strategy. I'm thinking about that as a juror. Why

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Speaker 1: would anybody do that? Why would someone admit to that?

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Speaker 1: And why not just try to get off from all

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Speaker 1: of it if.

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Speaker 2: That's the case, because you so obviously linked to it

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Speaker 2: when you look at the searches, when you look at

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Speaker 2: the surveillance video.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you couldn't get around.

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Speaker 2: Nothing else he can do. If he could have, he

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Speaker 2: would have tried. I'm sure. So at least hearing him

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Speaker 2: admit that, I feel like works in his favor. But

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Again, no legal expert here.

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Speaker 1: When the judge was saying it to them, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it must be the prosecution that wants it end because

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Speaker 1: she was saying to them, you have to show me

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Speaker 1: what the relevance is to your case. Why this wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be prejudicial because she says, this jury absolutely is prohibited

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Speaker 1: from considering those guilty, please and determining this verdict. So

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Speaker 1: she says, if I let them hear about it, I'm

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Speaker 1: the one inviting them to be.

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Speaker 2: Prejudicial, right, because yes, you can say, well, just this

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Speaker 2: is obviously why we see lawyers say things or ask

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Speaker 2: things that they know are going to be objected to

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Speaker 2: and perhaps sustained. But it doesn't matter because the jury

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Speaker 2: heard it anyway. So once a jury hears something, you

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Speaker 2: can instruct them not to consider it. Obviously, they can't

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Speaker 2: unhear it. And so this is something that we see

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Speaker 2: happen all the time in courtrooms. They know what's going

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Speaker 2: to get thrown out, they know it's going to be sustained,

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Speaker 2: and they do it anyway because they want the jury

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Speaker 2: to hear it.

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Speaker 1: And they don't mind being scolded by the judge a

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Speaker 1: little bit in that one moment for the sake of

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Speaker 1: saying whatever.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. So you know, if that is the case that

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Speaker 2: a jury cannot consider punishment when considering this verdict, then

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Speaker 2: I couldn't see why the judge would allow those guilty

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Speaker 2: pleas to be known to the jurors. That wouldn't make

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Speaker 2: any sense.

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Speaker 1: That was the big debate as they were wrapping up

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Speaker 1: today day three. I believe she said the schedule. They

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Speaker 1: will continue as normal tomorrow, but the day five, if

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Speaker 1: I guess it would be on Friday. She's anticipating the

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Speaker 1: jury's going to have a shorter day be done at

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Speaker 1: one o'clock. Can't remember what she.

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Speaker 2: Said, Well, it's Friday. I don't think that was it.

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Speaker 1: It was something else going on, but that's the schedule.

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Speaker 1: We will keep a very close eye, folks. We always

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Speaker 1: appreciate you spending some time with us. Signed t J.

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Speaker 1: Holmes on behalf of my dear Amy Robak will talk

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Speaker 1: to Austin