WEBVTT - #082 Jason Flom with Dusty Turner - RE-RELEASE 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:05.800 I fell into the hands of a corrupt detective. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:10.000 I was naive enough to believe that I would be 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.039 able to just present all of my proof of actual innocence, 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:15.600 that they would investigate adequately, and so that I wouldn't 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:17.160 be going to prison because I was a good person. 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:18.200 I hadn't done anything wrong. 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:21.080 In the back of your mind, you say, well, when 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:23.680 we go to a hearing or we go to court, 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.560 the truth will come out. The prosecution from day one 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:30.480 knew I was innocent and let forced testimony go uncorrected 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.159 from the lower courts all the way up to the 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:34.920 United States Supreme Court. 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:41.280 You have someone with a badge with ultimate and really, 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:43.159 in that moment, unchecked authority. 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:47.320 Don't presume that people are guilty when you see them 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:50.400 on TV, because it may just be a dirty DA 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:52.280 that is trying to rise upward. 0:00:57.800 --> 0:00:59.600 This is wrongful conviction. 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:15.319 Hello, this is a pre bay call from I'm enidated 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.560 from Virginia Department of Corrections, Green Steel Correction and Work 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:23.319 Center to accept this call plus zero who refuses. This 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.160 call is from a correction facility and is subject to 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:27.560 monitoring and recording. 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.240 Welcome back to wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm today, I'm 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.240 interviewing someone who I have a great deal of respect 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:39.600 and admiration for, Dusty Turner. On June nineteenth, the twenty 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:42.679 one year old pre med student went missing while vacationing 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:44.440 with family friends at Virginia Beach. 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.080 Twenty one year old Jennifer Evans abducted and murdered while 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.960 vacationing in Virginia Beach that Sunday night, Jennifer Evans left 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:55.440 the now defunct Bayou Nightclub with former Navy seal training 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.320 Dustin Turner. Please say the two got in the car 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:02.040 with another seal trainee, Billy Joe Brown. Police found her 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.480 body nine days later in this wooded area of Newport News. 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.160 She had been strangled. Both men blamed each other in court. 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.160 Turner was sentenced to eighty two years and Brown to 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:13.280 seventy two years. 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:16.080 Both sentenced to spend the rest of their lives in prison, 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.160 but the appeals continued through this year. When Brown told 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:23.160 police he was solely responsible for Jennifer's death, the confession 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.440 gave Dustin Turner one last chance to walk free. 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:30.240 The Virginia Supreme Court ruled unanimously Friday against Dusty Turner's 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:34.040 petition for exoneration the rule. He means Turner and another 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:37.360 Seal trainee, Billy Joe Brown, will spend the rest of 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.480 their lives in prison for the murder of Jennifer Evans. 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:46.040 Dusty, welcome to the show. The reason you're hearing him 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:48.720 sound sort of like he's on another planet is because 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.760 he is. He's in prison in Virginia where he's been 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:53.919 locked up for twenty two years for a crime he 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.600 had nothing to do with. It's a complicated case and 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:01.960 a very tragic situation because Dusty had just completed the 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.000 training to be a Navy Seal when he was arrested 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.679 for a murder that he didn't commit. And Dusty, let's 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:10.440 go back to that. When did you sign up for 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.760 the Navy? What made you want to serve your country? 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:17.280 Well, my family has been in the military, my father, 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.560 my stepfather, my brother, my older brother he was in 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.040 the Navy before me, and I guess I just have 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.320 always had that appeal towards the military and to serve. 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.840 My country, right, but you took it to another level 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.360 going through that Navy Seal training. That is the most 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:35.400 extreme thing you can do, right. Seals and rangers are 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.280 the most elite troops that we have, and so you 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.640 decided to subject yourself to basically torture in order to 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:47.040 really become a machine, right, Well, yeah, I. 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.680 Guess that's right. You know, initially, when I first signed 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.120 up to the military, to the Navy, I wanted to 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.320 be a diver. I was scuba diving for about fifteen 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.040 years ago, and before I was in the Sacovia Delayed 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.720 Entry program, and before I actually arrived the boot camp, 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:06.720 I set my sights on becoming a stew I don't 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.240 know really what it is that drove me so much, 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.040 but I just wanted to be in the most elite 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:17.039 unit that I could to be in order to fight 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:17.800 for my country. 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:23.479 And ironically, this all went horribly wrong. And there's a connection. 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.200 There's a very strong connection to the training because of 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.400 the fact that it was that faithful night when you 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.240 were out with your training buddy when all of this 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:37.839 tragedy began. Your training partner was Billy Brown, right, Yes. 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.520 Billy Brown and I were paired together early on in 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:45.120 bus training and throughout the entire field training. We were 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.040 paired of and actually the only reason we're paired of 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.040 at the beginning is because we're the same height, and 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.280 as fate would have it, that's why we were paired. 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:54.440 Of And why does that matter. 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:59.480 Well, everyone's assigned to a boat crew in bus training, 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.080 and your boat crew is depended upon height, and so 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.600 we were in the same boat crew. We're the same height. 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:08.760 One instructors that you and you, you're together. You're now 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:09.400 slim buddy. 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:14.560 And that was early in And the issue was Billy 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.919 was a very volatile character. Right, There's questions that have 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:20.800 been raised as to whether he should have ever been 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.200 admitted into the Navy in the first place when he 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.880 had a history of well, let's just say, erratic behavior 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.480 that would be concerning you would think before allowing him 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.240 to serve in that capacity. Can you talk a little 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:35.800 bit about that. 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.279 Yeah, So I didn't know about his past until after 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:45.159 the trial. He did have a violent history. Apparently he 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:49.960 had adulted at least one email before he came to 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.000 the military. He was discharged out of the Coastguard before 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.080 he came into the Navy, and he had a couple 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.880 other things on his record, which again I was unaware of. 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:01.480 The Brier. 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.039 You know, there's some people have said that when he 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:07.560 would have gone through the process get his security clearance 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.360 that they would have recognized this and then kicked them 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.640 out of the service. I'm not so sure if that's 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.200 the case or not, but he certainly had this vile 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.560 pass and it is surprising, you know, in hindsight, is 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:22.920 very surprising that he was allowed not only in the military, 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.360 but to come through into the Special Forces. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.360 And Dusty so going through the training with him, I mean, 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:35.599 you guys are taught to protect each other at all costs, 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.560 even if it means risking or putting your own life 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:39.600 in danger. Is that right? 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.360 Yes, it is during the training throughout a good majority 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.560 of it. If we were separated more than six feet, 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.880 we would be punished for that. You know, I could 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:52.640 trust him in the field, so to speak, to shoot 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.560 over top of my back and you know, my parachute, 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.000 so to speak. So there was a great deal of 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.880 trust and a binding bors for it to come with the. 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.800 Training, right, you literally had to trust each other with 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.120 your lives in a very, very in a very real way. 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:13.640 I'm bringing that up because it has a bearing on 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.520 the events, the tragic events that happened on June nineteenth, 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.640 nineteen ninety five in Virginia Beach. And I don't think 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.880 anybody who hasn't been in your shoes can judge how 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.000 you acted on that particular night. It's a very unique 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.520 case and a very unique set of circumstances. Let's talk 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.280 about that. Because you guys went out to a bar 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:40.240 that night. The evening started innocently enough, but Billy had 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.840 a drinking problem from what I've read, and apparently he 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:45.840 got pretty blitzed. Is that right? 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.960 Yeah, he had been drinking that day from early on 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.760 and it just continued into the evening, and that we 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:57.160 were at the club at ninety and he was absolute. 0:07:55.680 --> 0:08:00.400 Devote So walk us through what happened, Dusty, because this 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.320 is really the moment right when your life was turned 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:08.080 upside down. How did this unravel from the time you 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:09.600 were in the club to when you ended up in 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.280 the car, and then ultimately what happened after that. 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.240 Well, you know, it started off as kind of a normal, 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:20.120 normal evening. I'd been to that club a few times previous. 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:23.880 I was relatively new to the area in Virginia Beach, 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.440 not only been there maybe maybe three weeks, and so 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:30.880 initially three of us guys were going to go out 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:32.439 and to the club at night. One of the guys 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:34.720 ended up going and I don't know, going off with 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.920 his girlfriend or something. So Billy and I went to the club. 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:39.840 It was again, it was kind of a normal here, 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:43.000 Billy is drunk. Again. I kind of separated myself at 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:47.280 the club from him, and I had met a very 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:50.080 nice young lady named Jennifer Evans. We kind of hit 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:52.200 it off. We were having a good time. We're sharing 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.160 with each other what we were into. You know, she 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.320 was a college studit down in Georgia, and I generally 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:02.800 didn't talk very open about my still experience, but with her, 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:04.600 I did, and I opened up and I told her 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.400 what I was doing there for the beach. Now, mind 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:11.400 you that I was in the club with a underage 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.839 and I had a fake ID that I got in there. 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.640 You were twenty at the time, man, that was yeah. 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.960 I was twenty years old. Jennifer was twenty one, and 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:21.800 so again we you know, different and I we. 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:22.240 Hit it off. 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.360 We had to separate ourselves from from Billy. I had 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.160 met her girlfriend, her two friends that she came there with. 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.120 We had been out on the dance floor and you know, 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.680 again it was very very normal type of evening. And well, 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.000 the last thing I was imagining was some contractic happening 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.439 that night, so it put it in the night her 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.680 girlfriend had left. Briefly they were going to go get 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:47.559 some coffee. Ten everyone to say was be in the club. 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.680 So we actually had an idea of trying to go 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:52.920 down to the beach, taking our shoes off, and walking 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.520 down on the beach. But as the night for breast 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.240 and her girlfriends were going to come pick her back 0:09:58.320 --> 0:09:59.880 up at two o'clock in the morning, which is the 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.000 this club quote, Jennifer and I realized we didn't know 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.120 his time to go down to the beach and then 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.079 make it back to meet her girlfriend, so we stayed 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.200 in the club, and in fact we went out into 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.559 the lobby where it was more quiet, and we did 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:16.400 that out there and had a conversation. Just previous to this, 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:21.120 I had gotten Billy to ride home with his ex 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:22.760 girlfriend and it happened to be in the club that 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:28.240 night Christian's Bishop, and reluctantly she did agree to take 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.560 him home. She was reluctant, hesitant because she knows the 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.680 type of character that he is and she really didn't 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:36.800 want to deal with him, especially because he was so drunk, 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.480 which I understood, but you know, I was happy that 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.400 she was willing to take him home, so I was 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:44.840 confident that I wouldn't even see him for the rest 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.800 of the night. And I was with Jennifer, and it 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.800 was closing upon two o'clock in the morning. We were 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:54.080 out in the lobby and we decided to go out 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.719 into the parking lote and wait for her girlfriend and 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.160 sit in my car and listened to some music. And 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:03.000 so within about ten minutes, still too again, we went 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.360 out to my car and we were sitting there, listening 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.720 to music and looking forward her girlfriends to show up 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.760 at any minute. Instead, what we saw coming down the 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:15.720 hill was Billy Brown, and he was heading towards the 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.400 park spot. You know, I certainly wasn't expecting him. Christian 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:21.719 was supposed to take him home. I knew he was 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.760 drunk and belligerent, but when he's approaching the vehicle, I 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:26.880 told Jennifer, I said, look, you know this is the 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.120 guy I come here with. You know, he's drunk, just 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:32.960 still paying no attention to them. I've seen him in 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.120 the past, especially when we were in Puerto Rico. I've 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.800 seen him, witness him become kind of violent towards women. 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.280 I didn't think that he would become violent towards Jennifer, 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.240 but I did assume he was at least going to 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:50.880 be obnoxious and somewhat belligerent. So when he got into. 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:52.800 The car, wait, hold up there for a second, Dusty, 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:53.880 what kind of car was it? 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.640 So I had a small geostorm. 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.440 So that's a small car, right, yeah, it is very car. 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:02.720 And you big guys, both of you guys. 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.680 Are He was bigger than I. We were both six 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.680 foot two and a half, I guess, and he outweighed 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.840 me by him maybe maybe fifteen twenty pounds, so he 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.160 was I think he was about two hundred and thirty 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.800 somewhere around that's thirty pounds. But he approaches the passer's 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:19.559 side of the car and he opens the door and 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.640 he kind of pushes the car sty forward with Jennifer 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.760 is sitting, he pushes the feat forward a little roughly, 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:28.640 and he gets in the car in the back seats 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.000 right behind her. Of course, his big frame compared with 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:36.400 fitback and this he's did a very small car. Those 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.319 knees are against the back of her seat. And as 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:43.480 soon as he sits down, I turned to him and 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.599 I said, Billy What's what's going on? Why why was 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:51.200 Christian not taking you home? And he immediately goes into 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:55.640 a tirade about oh, screw me, that f bet girls 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.720 you think you know, blah blah, he's nothing but a favet. 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.000 This is the last thing you want to see, right, 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.000 You're having a nice moment with a girl, you have 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.800 a nice connection with her. The last thing you want 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.760 to see, last thing anybody would want to see is 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.760 a drunk, belligerent, violent anybody. You don't want to see 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.280 anybody at that point. You just want to be in 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.600 your little bubble with her, listen to music. Everything's good. 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:21.080 I mean, you never could have predicted how bad it 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:23.120 was going to get, but already it's bad. 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.400 Yeah, So this is obviously, this is the crux of 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.920 the situation. Jennifer and I were having a time. You know, 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:34.520 we were not romantically involved at this time. Earlier I 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.400 had given her a husband when I thought that she 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.960 was going to leave with her girlfriends, And that's the 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.520 only time we had any come physical context. Say, Jeff, 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.840 she's a very decent young lady. You know, she was 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:49.560 a good girl with a great teacher and farmer who 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.800 was going to college. And it's a very nice young lady. 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.680 And so we're having a great conversation, and as you said, 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.440 here comes this drunk buddy of mine down. 0:13:58.400 --> 0:13:58.840 To the calling. 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:04.120 So he's now in the back seat and is acting 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.160 as you would have probably predicted that he would have 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.880 act because of what you know about his character and 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.880 his current state of mind. But then it gets much worse. 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:17.160 Yeah. Yeah, So after asking him why Christian was taking 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.840 him home, and you know, he said what he said 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.400 about her, and he turns the bench to the Jennifer 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:27.400 and he made some very rude comments, if I remember correctly, 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.000 he said something about asking her if she was a virgin, 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:36.080 something like that. It was certainly inappropriate. And I immediately said, look, really, 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.400 why don't you get out and go find Christians that 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.400 she's gonna take him home. And so he was not 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.280 trying to hear that at all. He's like, that's that bitch. 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.480 So again he kind of turns his bench to Jennifer 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.840 in Now, mind you, within two or three or four 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.440 minutes before her girlfriends are coming to pick her up 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.400 right there where we're at in the parking lot. They're 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:58.920 supposed to arrive there, and they told us to be 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.000 there to the bot, and it has to be within 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.520 a couple of minutes before too. And of course I 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.720 didn't know at that point too what had transpired in 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:12.760 the gloves between him and Kristen that made him additionally belligerent. 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.400 So he turns his entire back to Jennifer and he 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.920 said something about her hair. He reached her up with 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.560 his right hand. I don't know if he pushed her 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:27.960 her shoulder or her hair, but at that point Jennifer had, 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.760 throughout this time, this brief couple of minutes, she had 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.520 not said a word, did not open her mouth to 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:39.240 him or refined to him. And so when he pushed 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.840 her hair or her shoulder, she smacked his hand from behind, 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.560 you know, swatted his hand, and that's when he snapped. 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.600 So you know, I wasn't looking directly at him when 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:56.120 he snapped, but with all his might, he violently brushed 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:01.480 his arms around her body, her neck area, and with 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:05.520 so much force that the whole car literally see. 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.480 Right, And I'm thinking about it, Dusty. He had his feet, 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:11.680 as you said, his knees were up against the seat. 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.920 And here's a big, strong, two thirty pound guy who's 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.720 trained to kill with his with his hands, and he's 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.360 got total leverage right because he's got the knees. I mean, 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:25.240 you know, it would have been nothing for him to 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.840 do this considering all of these well. 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.200 You know, I don't you know, I don't know about 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.320 saying it would have been nothing. I really don't know. 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.880 I know that if seemingly it was coming for him, 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.920 the strike that he did upon this innocent young woman 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:47.120 was so violent that when I turned and start screaming 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.200 at him to just let her go, and he's screaming 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.080 at me, just ep and drive, just ep and drive. First, 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:55.360 I started crying and trying to pull his arms off 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:59.400 over and screaming at him. This entire brief time when 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:05.040 this happened, Jennifer never once reached up to defend herself. 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.119 It was that quick that she was out, And so 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.040 I immediately grabbed his arms and I'm screaming at him, 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.480 just let her go, let him and he's screaming at me, 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.600 just fucking drive, just up and drive. Only after a 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:19.959 couple of seconds at pulling in his arms didn't work, 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.840 so I reached under his fingers literally and pried his arms, 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.560 using one hand on his elbow and the other under 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.520 his fingertips and pride his arms up off of her. 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.199 At this point, when I dig at his arms off her, 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:36.000 he took back in the seat, and she is out, said, 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:41.239 her head is built towards the passenger side window, her 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:45.320 arms on the other side. She had belittered herself. And 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:51.720 I'm just complete shot and just uttered confusion and disbelief, 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.359 and I and I'm and him still he is yelling 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:58.040 at him, just epping drive, just epping dry dust. 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.760 I'm just thinking that I'm just the physics of it. 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.520 I mean, it would have been almost impossible for anyone, 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.479 even a strong guy like yourself, to pull somebody off 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.240 from the side when he's in a position like he 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.480 was in, especially when it happened as quickly as it did. 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.639 I mean, you really had no chance to save this 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:17.760 poor girl. And I mean I obviously you did what 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.840 you could, but she had no chance. And at this point, 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:23.440 were you concerned that he was going to try to 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:25.920 kill you too, No, it certainly wasn't mind. 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:28.120 They didn't go through my head at the time. 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:28.280 No. 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.520 My only thought, I'm not think that anyone sitting in 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:35.639 my seat would have had a same reaction. You know, 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.359 one minute having a good time with a young lady 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:43.760 and the next minute, this guy, this violence predator, completely 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.720 just alters history. I don't know it's spoke stream, but 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.800 I mean the one act that he does, it changes 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:54.320 the lines and so many people. Sure, and he's drunk, 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:56.240 and you know, I'd like to think that he really 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:58.880 didn't know what the heck he's doing. He has his past, 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.800 and he has nance asked the violence start women. But 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:06.080 he's been increasingly becoming an alcoholist over the last several 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.960 weeks or months, in which he's drinking every single night. 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:11.960 It's just a bad, bad bruise, not to mention the 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.480 fact that he was thinking sterially leading up to this 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:14.960 as will. 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.000 Obviously, he destroyed her and get killed her, and he 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:22.720 ruined the lives of everyone who cared about her, her family, etc. 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.879 He ruined your life, He ruined his own life. He 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.120 ruined the lives of your families, right, your family all 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:32.639 military heroes and so yeah, in one short burst of 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.520 violence from what it sounds like last only seconds, not 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.960 even minutes, he managed to destroy so many people. And 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:46.400 then that's where the story gets into a whole different phase. Right, 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.360 and again, I can't walk in your shoes, No one 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.119 can walk in your shoes with all the factors that 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.480 were going on, Dusty, with the fact that you had 0:19:55.560 --> 0:20:00.359 been now trained, practically indoctrinated into this idea that you 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.600 must protect this guy and he's going to protect you. 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:06.720 You know, that's just in the mix. I just want 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:08.800 to put that in there. But besides that, you're in 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.679 a state I can imagine a complete shock and panic, 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.919 and who could imagine this terrible turn of events, as 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.280 you said, And what a dramatic turn when it goes 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.959 from what sounds like a beautiful night a nice connection 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:30.200 to this absolute horror that you're you've just witnessed as 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.320 close and personal as you can imagine with somebody that 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.880 you were supposed to trust and protect and someone else 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.080 that you would have liked to protect but you couldn't. 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.600 He's screaming at you to drive what happened? 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:43.600 Yeah, And this is, like you said, this is why 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.320 you're in prisons is because of what you've done afterwards, 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:53.000 and that people can't understand your reaction afterwards. The normal 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.320 person would have jumped out of the vehicle and ran 0:20:55.440 --> 0:21:00.320 to find the phone or the police somewhere or somebody. 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.159 Something just terrible has happened, And that might be the 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:05.920 case for most people. I don't know, but I think 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:09.000 that the way I reacted it would have been different. 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.080 Even if my own brother would have been in Billy 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.160 Brown's place, I think I would have reacted differently, because, 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.720 like you said too, the way I was conditioned and 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:24.360 indoctrinated at twenty years old, I reacted how I reacted. 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:27.960 I'm not a criminal. I've never been violent, and I 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:31.280 certainly have never been violent towards women, and I'm not 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:34.280 criminally minded. And so why is is did a twenty 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:36.919 year old trust in this position which I should never 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.360 have been to begin with, and had to make these 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:44.760 kinds of decisions. And so when I realized that Jennifers did, 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:49.200 and Billy Brown screaming them, and I really didn't know 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.760 what it is. I was in a place in this area, 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:55.640 like I said, I had only been ever being beach 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:58.440