1
00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,800
Speaker 1: I fell into the hands of a corrupt detective.

2
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,000
Speaker 2: I was naive enough to believe that I would be

3
00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,039
Speaker 2: able to just present all of my proof of actual innocence,

4
00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,600
Speaker 2: that they would investigate adequately, and so that I wouldn't

5
00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,160
Speaker 2: be going to prison because I was a good person.

6
00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:18,200
Speaker 2: I hadn't done anything wrong.

7
00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,080
Speaker 1: In the back of your mind, you say, well, when

8
00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,680
Speaker 1: we go to a hearing or we go to court,

9
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,560
Speaker 1: the truth will come out. The prosecution from day one

10
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,480
Speaker 1: knew I was innocent and let forced testimony go uncorrected

11
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,159
Speaker 1: from the lower courts all the way up to the

12
00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:34,920
Speaker 1: United States Supreme Court.

13
00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:41,280
Speaker 3: You have someone with a badge with ultimate and really,

14
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,159
Speaker 3: in that moment, unchecked authority.

15
00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,320
Speaker 2: Don't presume that people are guilty when you see them

16
00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,400
Speaker 2: on TV, because it may just be a dirty DA

17
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,280
Speaker 2: that is trying to rise upward.

18
00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 4: This is wrongful conviction.

19
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,319
Speaker 5: Hello, this is a pre bay call from I'm enidated

20
00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,560
Speaker 5: from Virginia Department of Corrections, Green Steel Correction and Work

21
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:23,319
Speaker 5: Center to accept this call plus zero who refuses. This

22
00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,160
Speaker 5: call is from a correction facility and is subject to

23
00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:27,560
Speaker 5: monitoring and recording.

24
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 4: Welcome back to wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm today, I'm

25
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 4: interviewing someone who I have a great deal of respect

26
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:39,600
Speaker 4: and admiration for, Dusty Turner. On June nineteenth, the twenty

27
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,679
Speaker 4: one year old pre med student went missing while vacationing

28
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,440
Speaker 4: with family friends at Virginia Beach.

29
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,080
Speaker 6: Twenty one year old Jennifer Evans abducted and murdered while

30
00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,960
Speaker 6: vacationing in Virginia Beach that Sunday night, Jennifer Evans left

31
00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,440
Speaker 6: the now defunct Bayou Nightclub with former Navy seal training

32
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,320
Speaker 6: Dustin Turner. Please say the two got in the car

33
00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,040
Speaker 6: with another seal trainee, Billy Joe Brown. Police found her

34
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,480
Speaker 6: body nine days later in this wooded area of Newport News.

35
00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,160
Speaker 6: She had been strangled. Both men blamed each other in court.

36
00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,160
Speaker 3: Turner was sentenced to eighty two years and Brown to

37
00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:13,280
Speaker 3: seventy two years.

38
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,080
Speaker 6: Both sentenced to spend the rest of their lives in prison,

39
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,160
Speaker 6: but the appeals continued through this year. When Brown told

40
00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 6: police he was solely responsible for Jennifer's death, the confession

41
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,440
Speaker 6: gave Dustin Turner one last chance to walk free.

42
00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,240
Speaker 3: The Virginia Supreme Court ruled unanimously Friday against Dusty Turner's

43
00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,040
Speaker 3: petition for exoneration the rule. He means Turner and another

44
00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,360
Speaker 3: Seal trainee, Billy Joe Brown, will spend the rest of

45
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,480
Speaker 3: their lives in prison for the murder of Jennifer Evans.

46
00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,040
Speaker 4: Dusty, welcome to the show. The reason you're hearing him

47
00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 4: sound sort of like he's on another planet is because

48
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,760
Speaker 4: he is. He's in prison in Virginia where he's been

49
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,919
Speaker 4: locked up for twenty two years for a crime he

50
00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,600
Speaker 4: had nothing to do with. It's a complicated case and

51
00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,960
Speaker 4: a very tragic situation because Dusty had just completed the

52
00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 4: training to be a Navy Seal when he was arrested

53
00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,679
Speaker 4: for a murder that he didn't commit. And Dusty, let's

54
00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:10,440
Speaker 4: go back to that. When did you sign up for

55
00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,760
Speaker 4: the Navy? What made you want to serve your country?

56
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 7: Well, my family has been in the military, my father,

57
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,560
Speaker 7: my stepfather, my brother, my older brother he was in

58
00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,040
Speaker 7: the Navy before me, and I guess I just have

59
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 7: always had that appeal towards the military and to serve.

60
00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,840
Speaker 4: My country, right, but you took it to another level

61
00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,360
Speaker 4: going through that Navy Seal training. That is the most

62
00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,400
Speaker 4: extreme thing you can do, right. Seals and rangers are

63
00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,280
Speaker 4: the most elite troops that we have, and so you

64
00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,640
Speaker 4: decided to subject yourself to basically torture in order to

65
00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:47,040
Speaker 4: really become a machine, right, Well, yeah, I.

66
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,680
Speaker 7: Guess that's right. You know, initially, when I first signed

67
00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,120
Speaker 7: up to the military, to the Navy, I wanted to

68
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,320
Speaker 7: be a diver. I was scuba diving for about fifteen

69
00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,040
Speaker 7: years ago, and before I was in the Sacovia Delayed

70
00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 7: Entry program, and before I actually arrived the boot camp,

71
00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:06,720
Speaker 7: I set my sights on becoming a stew I don't

72
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,240
Speaker 7: know really what it is that drove me so much,

73
00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,040
Speaker 7: but I just wanted to be in the most elite

74
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,039
Speaker 7: unit that I could to be in order to fight

75
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:17,800
Speaker 7: for my country.

76
00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:23,479
Speaker 4: And ironically, this all went horribly wrong. And there's a connection.

77
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,200
Speaker 4: There's a very strong connection to the training because of

78
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,400
Speaker 4: the fact that it was that faithful night when you

79
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,240
Speaker 4: were out with your training buddy when all of this

80
00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,839
Speaker 4: tragedy began. Your training partner was Billy Brown, right, Yes.

81
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,520
Speaker 7: Billy Brown and I were paired together early on in

82
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 7: bus training and throughout the entire field training. We were

83
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,040
Speaker 7: paired of and actually the only reason we're paired of

84
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,040
Speaker 7: at the beginning is because we're the same height, and

85
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,280
Speaker 7: as fate would have it, that's why we were paired.

86
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,440
Speaker 4: Of And why does that matter.

87
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,480
Speaker 7: Well, everyone's assigned to a boat crew in bus training,

88
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,080
Speaker 7: and your boat crew is depended upon height, and so

89
00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,600
Speaker 7: we were in the same boat crew. We're the same height.

90
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 7: One instructors that you and you, you're together. You're now

91
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:09,400
Speaker 7: slim buddy.

92
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,560
Speaker 4: And that was early in And the issue was Billy

93
00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,919
Speaker 4: was a very volatile character. Right, There's questions that have

94
00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,800
Speaker 4: been raised as to whether he should have ever been

95
00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,200
Speaker 4: admitted into the Navy in the first place when he

96
00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,880
Speaker 4: had a history of well, let's just say, erratic behavior

97
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,480
Speaker 4: that would be concerning you would think before allowing him

98
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,240
Speaker 4: to serve in that capacity. Can you talk a little

99
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:35,800
Speaker 4: bit about that.

100
00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I didn't know about his past until after

101
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:45,159
Speaker 7: the trial. He did have a violent history. Apparently he

102
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,960
Speaker 7: had adulted at least one email before he came to

103
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 7: the military. He was discharged out of the Coastguard before

104
00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,080
Speaker 7: he came into the Navy, and he had a couple

105
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,880
Speaker 7: other things on his record, which again I was unaware of.

106
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:01,480
Speaker 5: The Brier.

107
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,039
Speaker 7: You know, there's some people have said that when he

108
00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,560
Speaker 7: would have gone through the process get his security clearance

109
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,360
Speaker 7: that they would have recognized this and then kicked them

110
00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,640
Speaker 7: out of the service. I'm not so sure if that's

111
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 7: the case or not, but he certainly had this vile

112
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,560
Speaker 7: pass and it is surprising, you know, in hindsight, is

113
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,920
Speaker 7: very surprising that he was allowed not only in the military,

114
00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,360
Speaker 7: but to come through into the Special Forces.

115
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 4: And Dusty so going through the training with him, I mean,

116
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:35,599
Speaker 4: you guys are taught to protect each other at all costs,

117
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,560
Speaker 4: even if it means risking or putting your own life

118
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:39,600
Speaker 4: in danger. Is that right?

119
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,360
Speaker 7: Yes, it is during the training throughout a good majority

120
00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,560
Speaker 7: of it. If we were separated more than six feet,

121
00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,880
Speaker 7: we would be punished for that. You know, I could

122
00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,640
Speaker 7: trust him in the field, so to speak, to shoot

123
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,560
Speaker 7: over top of my back and you know, my parachute,

124
00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,000
Speaker 7: so to speak. So there was a great deal of

125
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,880
Speaker 7: trust and a binding bors for it to come with the.

126
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,800
Speaker 4: Training, right, you literally had to trust each other with

127
00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,120
Speaker 4: your lives in a very, very in a very real way.

128
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 4: I'm bringing that up because it has a bearing on

129
00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 4: the events, the tragic events that happened on June nineteenth,

130
00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,640
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety five in Virginia Beach. And I don't think

131
00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,880
Speaker 4: anybody who hasn't been in your shoes can judge how

132
00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:30,000
Speaker 4: you acted on that particular night. It's a very unique

133
00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,520
Speaker 4: case and a very unique set of circumstances. Let's talk

134
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,280
Speaker 4: about that. Because you guys went out to a bar

135
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,240
Speaker 4: that night. The evening started innocently enough, but Billy had

136
00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,840
Speaker 4: a drinking problem from what I've read, and apparently he

137
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,840
Speaker 4: got pretty blitzed. Is that right?

138
00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, he had been drinking that day from early on

139
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,760
Speaker 7: and it just continued into the evening, and that we

140
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:57,160
Speaker 7: were at the club at ninety and he was absolute.

141
00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:00,400
Speaker 4: Devote So walk us through what happened, Dusty, because this

142
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,320
Speaker 4: is really the moment right when your life was turned

143
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 4: upside down. How did this unravel from the time you

144
00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 4: were in the club to when you ended up in

145
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,280
Speaker 4: the car, and then ultimately what happened after that.

146
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,240
Speaker 7: Well, you know, it started off as kind of a normal,

147
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,120
Speaker 7: normal evening. I'd been to that club a few times previous.

148
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,880
Speaker 7: I was relatively new to the area in Virginia Beach,

149
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,440
Speaker 7: not only been there maybe maybe three weeks, and so

150
00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:30,880
Speaker 7: initially three of us guys were going to go out

151
00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:32,439
Speaker 7: and to the club at night. One of the guys

152
00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,720
Speaker 7: ended up going and I don't know, going off with

153
00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,920
Speaker 7: his girlfriend or something. So Billy and I went to the club.

154
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,840
Speaker 7: It was again, it was kind of a normal here,

155
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,000
Speaker 7: Billy is drunk. Again. I kind of separated myself at

156
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 7: the club from him, and I had met a very

157
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,080
Speaker 7: nice young lady named Jennifer Evans. We kind of hit

158
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,200
Speaker 7: it off. We were having a good time. We're sharing

159
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,160
Speaker 7: with each other what we were into. You know, she

160
00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,320
Speaker 7: was a college studit down in Georgia, and I generally

161
00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,800
Speaker 7: didn't talk very open about my still experience, but with her,

162
00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:04,600
Speaker 7: I did, and I opened up and I told her

163
00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 7: what I was doing there for the beach. Now, mind

164
00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,400
Speaker 7: you that I was in the club with a underage

165
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,839
Speaker 7: and I had a fake ID that I got in there.

166
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 4: You were twenty at the time, man, that was yeah.

167
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,960
Speaker 7: I was twenty years old. Jennifer was twenty one, and

168
00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:21,800
Speaker 7: so again we you know, different and I we.

169
00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:22,240
Speaker 8: Hit it off.

170
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 7: We had to separate ourselves from from Billy. I had

171
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,160
Speaker 7: met her girlfriend, her two friends that she came there with.

172
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,120
Speaker 7: We had been out on the dance floor and you know,

173
00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,680
Speaker 7: again it was very very normal type of evening. And well,

174
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,000
Speaker 7: the last thing I was imagining was some contractic happening

175
00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,439
Speaker 7: that night, so it put it in the night her

176
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,680
Speaker 7: girlfriend had left. Briefly they were going to go get

177
00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:47,559
Speaker 7: some coffee. Ten everyone to say was be in the club.

178
00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,680
Speaker 7: So we actually had an idea of trying to go

179
00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:52,920
Speaker 7: down to the beach, taking our shoes off, and walking

180
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,520
Speaker 7: down on the beach. But as the night for breast

181
00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 7: and her girlfriends were going to come pick her back

182
00:09:58,320 --> 00:09:59,880
Speaker 7: up at two o'clock in the morning, which is the

183
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,000
Speaker 7: this club quote, Jennifer and I realized we didn't know

184
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,120
Speaker 7: his time to go down to the beach and then

185
00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,079
Speaker 7: make it back to meet her girlfriend, so we stayed

186
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,200
Speaker 7: in the club, and in fact we went out into

187
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,559
Speaker 7: the lobby where it was more quiet, and we did

188
00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,400
Speaker 7: that out there and had a conversation. Just previous to this,

189
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,120
Speaker 7: I had gotten Billy to ride home with his ex

190
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:22,760
Speaker 7: girlfriend and it happened to be in the club that

191
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:28,240
Speaker 7: night Christian's Bishop, and reluctantly she did agree to take

192
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,560
Speaker 7: him home. She was reluctant, hesitant because she knows the

193
00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,680
Speaker 7: type of character that he is and she really didn't

194
00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 7: want to deal with him, especially because he was so drunk,

195
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,480
Speaker 7: which I understood, but you know, I was happy that

196
00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,400
Speaker 7: she was willing to take him home, so I was

197
00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,840
Speaker 7: confident that I wouldn't even see him for the rest

198
00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,800
Speaker 7: of the night. And I was with Jennifer, and it

199
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,800
Speaker 7: was closing upon two o'clock in the morning. We were

200
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,080
Speaker 7: out in the lobby and we decided to go out

201
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,719
Speaker 7: into the parking lote and wait for her girlfriend and

202
00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,160
Speaker 7: sit in my car and listened to some music. And

203
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,000
Speaker 7: so within about ten minutes, still too again, we went

204
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,360
Speaker 7: out to my car and we were sitting there, listening

205
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,720
Speaker 7: to music and looking forward her girlfriends to show up

206
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 7: at any minute. Instead, what we saw coming down the

207
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,720
Speaker 7: hill was Billy Brown, and he was heading towards the

208
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,400
Speaker 7: park spot. You know, I certainly wasn't expecting him. Christian

209
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,719
Speaker 7: was supposed to take him home. I knew he was

210
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,760
Speaker 7: drunk and belligerent, but when he's approaching the vehicle, I

211
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,880
Speaker 7: told Jennifer, I said, look, you know this is the

212
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,120
Speaker 7: guy I come here with. You know, he's drunk, just

213
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,960
Speaker 7: still paying no attention to them. I've seen him in

214
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,120
Speaker 7: the past, especially when we were in Puerto Rico. I've

215
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,800
Speaker 7: seen him, witness him become kind of violent towards women.

216
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,280
Speaker 7: I didn't think that he would become violent towards Jennifer,

217
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,240
Speaker 7: but I did assume he was at least going to

218
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,880
Speaker 7: be obnoxious and somewhat belligerent. So when he got into.

219
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,800
Speaker 4: The car, wait, hold up there for a second, Dusty,

220
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:53,880
Speaker 4: what kind of car was it?

221
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,640
Speaker 7: So I had a small geostorm.

222
00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,440
Speaker 4: So that's a small car, right, yeah, it is very car.

223
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,720
Speaker 4: And you big guys, both of you guys.

224
00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,680
Speaker 7: Are He was bigger than I. We were both six

225
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,680
Speaker 7: foot two and a half, I guess, and he outweighed

226
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,840
Speaker 7: me by him maybe maybe fifteen twenty pounds, so he

227
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 7: was I think he was about two hundred and thirty

228
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 7: somewhere around that's thirty pounds. But he approaches the passer's

229
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,559
Speaker 7: side of the car and he opens the door and

230
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 7: he kind of pushes the car sty forward with Jennifer

231
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,760
Speaker 7: is sitting, he pushes the feat forward a little roughly,

232
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,640
Speaker 7: and he gets in the car in the back seats

233
00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,000
Speaker 7: right behind her. Of course, his big frame compared with

234
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,400
Speaker 7: fitback and this he's did a very small car. Those

235
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,319
Speaker 7: knees are against the back of her seat. And as

236
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,480
Speaker 7: soon as he sits down, I turned to him and

237
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,599
Speaker 7: I said, Billy What's what's going on? Why why was

238
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:51,200
Speaker 7: Christian not taking you home? And he immediately goes into

239
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,640
Speaker 7: a tirade about oh, screw me, that f bet girls

240
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,720
Speaker 7: you think you know, blah blah, he's nothing but a favet.

241
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,000
Speaker 4: This is the last thing you want to see, right,

242
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,000
Speaker 4: You're having a nice moment with a girl, you have

243
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,800
Speaker 4: a nice connection with her. The last thing you want

244
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,760
Speaker 4: to see, last thing anybody would want to see is

245
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,760
Speaker 4: a drunk, belligerent, violent anybody. You don't want to see

246
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 4: anybody at that point. You just want to be in

247
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,600
Speaker 4: your little bubble with her, listen to music. Everything's good.

248
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,080
Speaker 4: I mean, you never could have predicted how bad it

249
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,120
Speaker 4: was going to get, but already it's bad.

250
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, So this is obviously, this is the crux of

251
00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,920
Speaker 7: the situation. Jennifer and I were having a time. You know,

252
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:34,520
Speaker 7: we were not romantically involved at this time. Earlier I

253
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,400
Speaker 7: had given her a husband when I thought that she

254
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,960
Speaker 7: was going to leave with her girlfriends, And that's the

255
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,520
Speaker 7: only time we had any come physical context. Say, Jeff,

256
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,840
Speaker 7: she's a very decent young lady. You know, she was

257
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,560
Speaker 7: a good girl with a great teacher and farmer who

258
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 7: was going to college. And it's a very nice young lady.

259
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,680
Speaker 7: And so we're having a great conversation, and as you said,

260
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,440
Speaker 7: here comes this drunk buddy of mine down.

261
00:13:58,400 --> 00:13:58,840
Speaker 5: To the calling.

262
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,120
Speaker 4: So he's now in the back seat and is acting

263
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,160
Speaker 4: as you would have probably predicted that he would have

264
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,880
Speaker 4: act because of what you know about his character and

265
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,880
Speaker 4: his current state of mind. But then it gets much worse.

266
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,160
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah, So after asking him why Christian was taking

267
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,840
Speaker 7: him home, and you know, he said what he said

268
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,400
Speaker 7: about her, and he turns the bench to the Jennifer

269
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,400
Speaker 7: and he made some very rude comments, if I remember correctly,

270
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,000
Speaker 7: he said something about asking her if she was a virgin,

271
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:36,080
Speaker 7: something like that. It was certainly inappropriate. And I immediately said, look, really,

272
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,400
Speaker 7: why don't you get out and go find Christians that

273
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,400
Speaker 7: she's gonna take him home. And so he was not

274
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,280
Speaker 7: trying to hear that at all. He's like, that's that bitch.

275
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,480
Speaker 7: So again he kind of turns his bench to Jennifer

276
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,840
Speaker 7: in Now, mind you, within two or three or four

277
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,440
Speaker 7: minutes before her girlfriends are coming to pick her up

278
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,400
Speaker 7: right there where we're at in the parking lot. They're

279
00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:58,920
Speaker 7: supposed to arrive there, and they told us to be

280
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,000
Speaker 7: there to the bot, and it has to be within

281
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,520
Speaker 7: a couple of minutes before too. And of course I

282
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 7: didn't know at that point too what had transpired in

283
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:12,760
Speaker 7: the gloves between him and Kristen that made him additionally belligerent.

284
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,400
Speaker 7: So he turns his entire back to Jennifer and he

285
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,920
Speaker 7: said something about her hair. He reached her up with

286
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,560
Speaker 7: his right hand. I don't know if he pushed her

287
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:27,960
Speaker 7: her shoulder or her hair, but at that point Jennifer had,

288
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,760
Speaker 7: throughout this time, this brief couple of minutes, she had

289
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,520
Speaker 7: not said a word, did not open her mouth to

290
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:39,240
Speaker 7: him or refined to him. And so when he pushed

291
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,840
Speaker 7: her hair or her shoulder, she smacked his hand from behind,

292
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,560
Speaker 7: you know, swatted his hand, and that's when he snapped.

293
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,600
Speaker 7: So you know, I wasn't looking directly at him when

294
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:56,120
Speaker 7: he snapped, but with all his might, he violently brushed

295
00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 7: his arms around her body, her neck area, and with

296
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 7: so much force that the whole car literally see.

297
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,480
Speaker 4: Right, And I'm thinking about it, Dusty. He had his feet,

298
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,680
Speaker 4: as you said, his knees were up against the seat.

299
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,920
Speaker 4: And here's a big, strong, two thirty pound guy who's

300
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 4: trained to kill with his with his hands, and he's

301
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,360
Speaker 4: got total leverage right because he's got the knees. I mean,

302
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,240
Speaker 4: you know, it would have been nothing for him to

303
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 4: do this considering all of these well.

304
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,200
Speaker 7: You know, I don't you know, I don't know about

305
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,320
Speaker 7: saying it would have been nothing. I really don't know.

306
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,880
Speaker 7: I know that if seemingly it was coming for him,

307
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 7: the strike that he did upon this innocent young woman

308
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:47,120
Speaker 7: was so violent that when I turned and start screaming

309
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,200
Speaker 7: at him to just let her go, and he's screaming

310
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,080
Speaker 7: at me, just ep and drive, just ep and drive. First,

311
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 7: I started crying and trying to pull his arms off

312
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,400
Speaker 7: over and screaming at him. This entire brief time when

313
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:05,040
Speaker 7: this happened, Jennifer never once reached up to defend herself.

314
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,119
Speaker 7: It was that quick that she was out, And so

315
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,040
Speaker 7: I immediately grabbed his arms and I'm screaming at him,

316
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,480
Speaker 7: just let her go, let him and he's screaming at me,

317
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,600
Speaker 7: just fucking drive, just up and drive. Only after a

318
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,959
Speaker 7: couple of seconds at pulling in his arms didn't work,

319
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,840
Speaker 7: so I reached under his fingers literally and pried his arms,

320
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,560
Speaker 7: using one hand on his elbow and the other under

321
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,520
Speaker 7: his fingertips and pride his arms up off of her.

322
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,199
Speaker 7: At this point, when I dig at his arms off her,

323
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,000
Speaker 7: he took back in the seat, and she is out, said,

324
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,239
Speaker 7: her head is built towards the passenger side window, her

325
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 7: arms on the other side. She had belittered herself. And

326
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 7: I'm just complete shot and just uttered confusion and disbelief,

327
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,359
Speaker 7: and I and I'm and him still he is yelling

328
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 7: at him, just epping drive, just epping dry dust.

329
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,760
Speaker 4: I'm just thinking that I'm just the physics of it.

330
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,520
Speaker 4: I mean, it would have been almost impossible for anyone,

331
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,479
Speaker 4: even a strong guy like yourself, to pull somebody off

332
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 4: from the side when he's in a position like he

333
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,480
Speaker 4: was in, especially when it happened as quickly as it did.

334
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,639
Speaker 4: I mean, you really had no chance to save this

335
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,760
Speaker 4: poor girl. And I mean I obviously you did what

336
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,840
Speaker 4: you could, but she had no chance. And at this point,

337
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,440
Speaker 4: were you concerned that he was going to try to

338
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:25,920
Speaker 4: kill you too, No, it certainly wasn't mind.

339
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,120
Speaker 7: They didn't go through my head at the time.

340
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 4: No.

341
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,520
Speaker 7: My only thought, I'm not think that anyone sitting in

342
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,639
Speaker 7: my seat would have had a same reaction. You know,

343
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,359
Speaker 7: one minute having a good time with a young lady

344
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 7: and the next minute, this guy, this violence predator, completely

345
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,720
Speaker 7: just alters history. I don't know it's spoke stream, but

346
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,800
Speaker 7: I mean the one act that he does, it changes

347
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 7: the lines and so many people. Sure, and he's drunk,

348
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 7: and you know, I'd like to think that he really

349
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,880
Speaker 7: didn't know what the heck he's doing. He has his past,

350
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,800
Speaker 7: and he has nance asked the violence start women. But

351
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 7: he's been increasingly becoming an alcoholist over the last several

352
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,960
Speaker 7: weeks or months, in which he's drinking every single night.

353
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 7: It's just a bad, bad bruise, not to mention the

354
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 7: fact that he was thinking sterially leading up to this

355
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:14,960
Speaker 7: as will.

356
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 4: Obviously, he destroyed her and get killed her, and he

357
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,720
Speaker 4: ruined the lives of everyone who cared about her, her family, etc.

358
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,879
Speaker 4: He ruined your life, He ruined his own life. He

359
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 4: ruined the lives of your families, right, your family all

360
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,639
Speaker 4: military heroes and so yeah, in one short burst of

361
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 4: violence from what it sounds like last only seconds, not

362
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 4: even minutes, he managed to destroy so many people. And

363
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:46,400
Speaker 4: then that's where the story gets into a whole different phase. Right,

364
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,360
Speaker 4: and again, I can't walk in your shoes, No one

365
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 4: can walk in your shoes with all the factors that

366
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,480
Speaker 4: were going on, Dusty, with the fact that you had

367
00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,359
Speaker 4: been now trained, practically indoctrinated into this idea that you

368
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 4: must protect this guy and he's going to protect you.

369
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 4: You know, that's just in the mix. I just want

370
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 4: to put that in there. But besides that, you're in

371
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,679
Speaker 4: a state I can imagine a complete shock and panic,

372
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,919
Speaker 4: and who could imagine this terrible turn of events, as

373
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 4: you said, And what a dramatic turn when it goes

374
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,959
Speaker 4: from what sounds like a beautiful night a nice connection

375
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 4: to this absolute horror that you're you've just witnessed as

376
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 4: close and personal as you can imagine with somebody that

377
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,880
Speaker 4: you were supposed to trust and protect and someone else

378
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 4: that you would have liked to protect but you couldn't.

379
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 4: He's screaming at you to drive what happened?

380
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, And this is, like you said, this is why

381
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 7: you're in prisons is because of what you've done afterwards,

382
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 7: and that people can't understand your reaction afterwards. The normal

383
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 7: person would have jumped out of the vehicle and ran

384
00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 7: to find the phone or the police somewhere or somebody.

385
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,159
Speaker 7: Something just terrible has happened, And that might be the

386
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 7: case for most people. I don't know, but I think

387
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 7: that the way I reacted it would have been different.

388
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 7: Even if my own brother would have been in Billy

389
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,160
Speaker 7: Brown's place, I think I would have reacted differently, because,

390
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 7: like you said too, the way I was conditioned and

391
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:24,360
Speaker 7: indoctrinated at twenty years old, I reacted how I reacted.

392
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 7: I'm not a criminal. I've never been violent, and I

393
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 7: certainly have never been violent towards women, and I'm not

394
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 7: criminally minded. And so why is is did a twenty

395
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,919
Speaker 7: year old trust in this position which I should never

396
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,360
Speaker 7: have been to begin with, and had to make these

397
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 7: kinds of decisions. And so when I realized that Jennifers did,

398
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 7: and Billy Brown screaming them, and I really didn't know

399
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 7: what it is. I was in a place in this area,

400
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 7: like I said, I had only been ever being beach

401
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 7: for a couple of weeks and a three weeks in time.

402
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 7: So I just put the car to drive and I

403
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 7: took off driving, and I didn't know where I was going.

404
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 7: I didn't even know how to barely get out of

405
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 7: the Virginia Beach area until I ended up in I

406
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 7: Phil Brown. When I started driving, he said, I'll turn

407
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,199
Speaker 7: left here to turn right there, and I ended up

408
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 7: on sixty four, and on sixty four, I'm familiar with

409
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 7: that highway, and so I just started traveling west on

410
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 7: sixty four and I didn't know where I was going,

411
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 7: and I just kept driving and driving until I started

412
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 7: seeing a lot of wooded area, and so I pulled

413
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 7: off on an exit. Again, I have no idea where

414
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 7: I'm at, and I'm just driving, and I pulled off

415
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 7: into another area which seemed more wooded, until I get

416
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 7: to a more secluded area which is not that far

417
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 7: from the interstate, and both of us, myself and Billy, get.

418
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 5: Up the car.

419
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 7: I grabbed Ennifer's wrist, he grabbed her legs, and we

420
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 7: carried her perhaps thirty or into the wood. And again

421
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 7: I was in complete chaotic shock, and I didn't know

422
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 7: what I was doing. I didn't know what else to do.

423
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,879
Speaker 7: And yeah, I understand that people people look at that

424
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 7: moment there and say, you know that, why would you

425
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 7: do that? Why you know I would have done that?

426
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 7: But others have topped in in my shoes. They don't understand,

427
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 7: and perhaps I don't even understand why I reacted that

428
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 7: with other than to say that this is kind of

429
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 7: how I was trained to react. They didn't say any

430
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 7: situation which you know there's been a crime and it's

431
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 7: a civilian who's been hurt, profect your swim budding. Oh

432
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 7: of course I didn't say that. However, now, from what

433
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 7: I understand, when you go through still training today, they

434
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 7: do have classes in training that says, look, if this

435
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 7: type of scenario happens, you need to consider what you know,

436
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 7: where you're at, what you're doing, and so forth, and

437
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 7: do not protect your if he has done something so horrendous,

438
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 7: so wrong. And that's the place today because because.

439
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 8: Of this city.

440
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 4: But Dusty, I want to bring up an important point.

441
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 4: What is important from a legal perspective to remember is

442
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 4: that in Virginia, hiding a body after a murder is

443
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 4: a misdemeanor punishable by up to twelve months in jail.

444
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 4: And that's not what you got convicted of. That's not

445
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 4: what they wanted you for. And we're going to get

446
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 4: to that in a minute. But that's a very important

447
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 4: thing to remember. In certain states that's not the case.

448
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 4: There's some states where it's treated very differently. In some states,

449
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 4: it's treated the same as murder, just you know, hiding

450
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 4: the body after the fact. But that's the only thing

451
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 4: that you were guilty of, and that's one of the

452
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 4: reasons why I've dived into your case and why I'm

453
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 4: doing everything I can to help you try to find justice,

454
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 4: because it's obviously a terrible miscarriage of justice, the fact

455
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 4: that you're serving time for murder when what you did

456
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 4: was wrong, but it's not murder. So now going forward,

457
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 4: you go back to the base, and this is big news,

458
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 4: right the town is up in arms. Everyone's wondering what

459
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 4: happened to this girl? And this must have been driving

460
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 4: you crazy, right, Well, I wasn't.

461
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 7: Really aware at the time of the news the media,

462
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 7: But what was driving me crazy is just having witnessed

463
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 7: it and and knowing about it and attempting to remain

464
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 7: silent about it. It was, Uh, it put me in

465
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 7: a state of almost like a zombie like state throughout

466
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 7: the next week in which I held this speacret and

467
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 7: witness really do this terrible, terrible beat, and I had

468
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 7: it within and and I couldn't tell anybody, and so

469
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 7: it was it was definitely eating me up on the inside.

470
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 7: So of course, the coming week we were up north

471
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 7: something a place called a support a doing additional training

472
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 7: for men. I wasn't during the time. I wasn't aware

473
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 7: of the news in the media down in Virginia Beach,

474
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 7: but it was certainly eating you up.

475
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 8: On the inside.

476
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 4: So your conscience got the best of you, and you know,

477
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 4: you did the right thing after having done the wrong

478
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 4: thing and went to the authorities, right. And that's where

479
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 4: things get really dicey from everything I've read, where they

480
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 4: didn't behave in a straightforward manner when it comes to

481
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 4: how they treated you right.

482
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 7: Well, first of all, you know, I did it till

483
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 7: the detectives, you know, everything that they asked me. You know,

484
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 7: at first I did.

485
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 8: Not deny it.

486
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 7: I denied everything, but it came to a point, especially

487
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 7: after they had presented me with the fact that dinner

488
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 7: first family is an absolute going to a traumatic and

489
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 7: brieving experience and they just want to know how they

490
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 7: want to know whether their daughter is et cetera. And

491
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 7: it was through this line of enquirer questioning that you know,

492
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 7: I asked to see my superior officer and my spirit

493
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 7: off came in and we were alone, and I told

494
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 7: him everything that happened, and so he said that he

495
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 7: was going to attempt to call the dad officer and

496
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 7: to see what we could do as far as illegally

497
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,479
Speaker 7: or something like that, but nonetheleast fifteen minutes later, when

498
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 7: the Texas come in, I told them everything that they

499
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 7: had asked me, and they even asked me if I

500
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 7: would help them first draw maps to where Jennifer's Bobby was,

501
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 7: which I did, I attempted to do, and then asked

502
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 7: me if I would accompany them and they helped find

503
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 7: Jennifer's Bobby, so which I did also, and I still

504
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 7: my spreit officer in one of the expectives. We went

505
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 7: to the location and we separated the search through the woods.

506
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 7: Finally I did find her body. At that point I

507
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 7: went back to the base they had prevented Billy Brown

508
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 7: with the map that I had drawn, and said, look,

509
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 7: your buddy completely dis rolled on you. He told us

510
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 7: everything you're going, you're probably gonna get the deaf penalty

511
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 7: whatever else. And so at that point that he began

512
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 7: with the stories about now I had something part to

513
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 7: do with it. He later said that he was going

514
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 7: down He's gonna take me with and so he made

515
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 7: up a story saying that.

516
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 4: We're both all yeah. I mean, he was obviously furious

517
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 4: because he believed that you, who was supposed to be

518
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 4: his protector, had betrayed him. He's going to do what

519
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 4: he can to bring you down with him, because, in

520
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 4: his twisted way of thinking, you should have covered up

521
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 4: this murder and protected him, And so you did what

522
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 4: you thought was right albe it after the fact and

523
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 4: the consequences started to become very real now from what

524
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 4: I've read, Dusty, the detectives made certain promises to you,

525
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 4: right that if you help them, you were going to

526
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 4: be kind of okay, right.

527
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, they you know, they did say that laughter, telling

528
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 7: Monster officer what had happened, and he spoke to the

529
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 7: sextus as will.

530
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 8: Together.

531
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 7: They said, look, just just to answer their questions, it'll

532
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 7: be all right. And I said, are you sure you know?

533
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 7: And I kind of took it as a direct order

534
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 7: from my carey officer. I said, very sure, that's what

535
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 7: I should do, and he said, yes, just answer the questions,

536
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 7: be all right. I said, okay. Now, they didn't come

537
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 7: to me and say anything like, well, you know, for

538
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 7: your testimony, will allow some kind of agreement or something

539
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 7: like that. Now, they never actually came to me and

540
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 7: said that. Of course, being very ignorant of the criminal

541
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 7: justice stem, you know, I didn't know that I would

542
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 7: even need a lawyer, or that I should remain time

543
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 7: about certain things or what have you. But you know,

544
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 7: I willingly asked them to search my vehicle. I mean,

545
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 7: I answered their questions truthfully, and I thought that maybe

546
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 7: what this would lead to was at some point me

547
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 7: on a witnessman explaining as Billie Brown and being charged

548
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 7: with her murder, that I would be explaining exactly how

549
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,239
Speaker 7: things happened. Maybe I was naive, but I assume that's

550
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 7: company work. I certainly didn't assume that they were going

551
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 7: to charge me.

552
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 8: After speaking with Billy Brown and him pointing the finger

553
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 8: as much Phil, I certainly didn't think want to be

554
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 8: George Hurd.

555
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 4: And this is an important point, Dusty, right, because the

556
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 4: police spent forty eight hours examining your car, right, so

557
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 4: they turned that thing upside down, And yet they never

558
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 4: used any of the evidence from the car at trial

559
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 4: because it wasn't going to be favorable to them. And

560
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 4: in fact, by not presenting the evidence at trial, they

561
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 4: didn't have to turn over to the defense, when in fact,

562
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 4: if they had, it would have been definitely in your

563
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 4: favor because of the fact that everything you were saying

564
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 4: makes true, that the physics of it just don't add

565
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 4: up some of the things that they said. It doesn't

566
00:30:49,560 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 4: make sense to add insult to injury, and in a

567
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 4: terrible call it a coincidence. The year that you were convicted,

568
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety five was the same year that Virginia abolished parole,

569
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 4: which is shocking to my conscience. In a nation where

570
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 4: we believe in second chances and we believe in redemption,

571
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 4: and we believe in that stuff, the idea that if

572
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 4: you were so misfortunate is to be convicted in Virginia

573
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety five or later, you are not eligible for parole.

574
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 7: I wouldn't even know what parole meant. I wasn't aware,

575
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 7: you know today had just abolished parole in Virginia. I

576
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 7: don't think I would have would have paired its time.

577
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 7: I wasn't so I gets concerned about the sins I

578
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 7: was given. I was concerned about the fact that I

579
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 7: was convicted of to charges that I did not commit.

580
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 7: Whether it gave me ten years or one hundred years

581
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 7: I was convicted of something I didn't commit, and that's

582
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 7: that was the travisy.

583
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 4: It's it's I can't I can't really imagine how that

584
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 4: could make sense in a society like ours, But it

585
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 4: is in fact a reality, and it's your reality. And

586
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 4: it's why now everyone is working so hard to help

587
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 4: you get clemency or a pardon or a conditional pardon

588
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 4: from the governor because of the fact that that is

589
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 4: the only recourse left. Another thing that's of sort of

590
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 4: a unique and to me troubling concept is the idea

591
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 4: that you only have really one appeal of actual innocence

592
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 4: in Virginia, right, And that's something I want to get

593
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 4: to Dusty, because, first of all, a crazy thing happened

594
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 4: in two thousand and two, right, which is that Billy

595
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 4: he had some sort of an awakening and decided to

596
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,479
Speaker 4: come clean and tell the truth. We're talking two thousand

597
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 4: and two, fifteen years ago, right, and he recanted and

598
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 4: admitted that he was the sole murderer. And I think

599
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 4: people are listening now and going, well, wait a minute,

600
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 4: if that happened, why is Dusty still in prison? Can

601
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 4: you explain that scenario?

602
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'll I'll regan explain it. Yes, as he's serving

603
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 7: his time in some other prison, I guess some guys

604
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 7: had approached them and got them to get into Christianity,

605
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 7: and this allowed him to finally relieve this burden that

606
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 7: he's been holding for all these years and to confess.

607
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 7: And so that happened again in early two thousands, and

608
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 7: here it is fifteen years later, and I'm still sitting here,

609
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 7: still sitting here after he's come clean, after he finally said, yeah,

610
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 7: everything that Dusty said, that's what happened, and the judge

611
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 7: rule that he's credible in that confession. So there was

612
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 7: no mechanisms more recently of even getting back into court

613
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 7: with such new evidence. But there was a time later

614
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 7: in two thousand and sixty five to seven, and so

615
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 7: we finally rid of actual innocence to the appeals court,

616
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 7: which ended with well, the appeals court initially overturned my convictions.

617
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 7: They did convict me of the misdemeanor accessory after the

618
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 7: fact to the pelony, which indeed I am built, and

619
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 7: like you said earlier, that was a maximum sentence of

620
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 7: twelve months in jail when they made this ruling and

621
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 7: they dropped my charges as the two thousand and eight,

622
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 7: two thousand and nine, I'll expect to be home within

623
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 7: a matter of days or weeks.

624
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 4: This is what makes me insane. And I think anybody

625
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 4: listening is like, wait, wait, wait, So your conviction was vacated, right,

626
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 4: And then that means to a layman who's not intimately

627
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 4: familiar with the law or criminal proceedings, when your conviction

628
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 4: is vacated, you have every reasonablieve you're going to go home. Right.

629
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 4: They've actually come out and said, okay, we are now

630
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 4: acknowledging there is no physical evidence connecting you to this.

631
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 4: None of this stuff adds up, right, not to the murder,

632
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,919
Speaker 4: Like you said you're guilty of the accessory after the fact,

633
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 4: and now you have the actual killer confessing in court

634
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 4: under oath. Sounds like a winner. Right, You're going home,

635
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,439
Speaker 4: except for then the state decided to put it's foot

636
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 4: back on your neck, so to speak. Right, And then

637
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 4: what happened?

638
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, so the pins the vacated my conviction and I

639
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 7: was expected to be home with a matter of days.

640
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 7: The acting Attorney General came forward and said that if

641
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 7: he wanted to appeal this decision, and so they appealed it.

642
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 7: And it went back through the appellate court and then

643
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 7: on into the later into the Supreme Court in Virginia,

644
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,760
Speaker 7: and under a new theory that one of the judges

645
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 7: of the pelate court created, and the bread of actual

646
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 7: innocence is so demanding as they say that the evidence

647
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 7: has to be just as substantial as DNA evidence, which

648
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 7: unfortunately there's no DNA evidence in my case. But so

649
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 7: one of the judges says, well, although he didn't have

650
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 7: anything to do with the murder, and this has been

651
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 7: decided by the judges, he didn't have anything to do

652
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 7: with the murder, and he didn't restrain the victim. This

653
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 7: judge says, well, perhaps a jury could believe that when

654
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 7: Dusty walked out of the bar to the parking lot

655
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 7: to his calm, that a jury could believe that that

656
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 7: was an abduction by deception. And if a jury believed

657
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 7: that and then Jennifer was later killed, regardless of power

658
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 7: who was killed her, that I would still be guilty.

659
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 7: And the jerk is still found me guilty of both

660
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 7: the abduction and the murder. So they created a new

661
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 7: theory in my face, there's just not only the asonine,

662
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 7: but it was never presented before a jury, and there's

663
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 7: no jury in the world that would believe this idea,

664
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 7: especially with all the additional evidence. So under that, because

665
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 7: of that and all the semantics of this word restraint,

666
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 7: and that's what it comes down to, I'm still in

667
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 7: prison because of the semantics of the word restraint. And

668
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 7: it's unbelievable. So they overturned my release and they reinstate

669
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 7: my conviction. And here it is seven years later and

670
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 7: I'm still sitting here for crime but I did not spend.

671
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 4: So they're basically trying to say that they're going back

672
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 4: back in time to nineteen ninety five. They're going back

673
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 4: inside the nineteen ninety five and trying to come up

674
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 4: with a theory that could actually read your mind. Right,

675
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 4: They're going back in a time machine and reading your

676
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 4: mind and saying, well, this may have been, could have been,

677
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 4: would have been something that he might have been thinking

678
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 4: of doing. There's no evidence to prove it. How could anybody?

679
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 4: I don't know. It makes me nuts. It's such a

680
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 4: bizarre It's such a bizarre thing for a court or

681
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 4: a judge to say, as far as I'm concerned, nothink

682
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 4: to be.

683
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 7: The legislators recognized that after my case, and they said,

684
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 7: you know, this rivaculinniscence is obviously entirely to restrictiveness and

685
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 7: to open for interpretation or whatever. So they since I

686
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 7: went through this rivactionlinscence, now they've changed the law the

687
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 7: wording of arivactionism. Instead of saying could any jurorifying you

688
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 7: with this dies? Now it's more specific and it may

689
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 7: sound public, but it's more the thing would a rational

690
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 7: juror still find deal with this new evidence and the

691
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 7: new word in which I can't go back into the

692
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 7: very rationalist just because it's the one shot deal and

693
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 7: to I'm left hung out to drial on this whole time.

694
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 4: Well, hopefully not for too long, because you have a

695
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 4: lot of really great people on your side now, and

696
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 4: you have a governor who cares about these issues and

697
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 4: who has shown in actions that he believes in justice,

698
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 4: that he believes in fairness, and that he has the

699
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 4: courage to do something about these things.

700
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 7: From my perspective, he does seem like a very fair man,

701
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 7: and I do have hope. I do think that he

702
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 7: will look at my case, and I know and I'm

703
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 7: very confident that if he does, if he just looks

704
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 7: at my case, then he'll realize that I'm not supposed

705
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 7: to be here. I do have that tremendous hope that

706
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 7: he will take action in my case.

707
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 4: Well, Dusty, I can tell you that I think that

708
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 4: there's a lot of reason to have hope in this

709
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 4: current administration we have there because of the fact that

710
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 4: you do have such a ground swell of support, and

711
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 4: not only that, because of what you've done, the remarkable

712
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 4: record of accomplishment that you've had on the inside. And

713
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 4: I want to talk about that. I know that you

714
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 4: know you're finding hope in a hopeless place, but I

715
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 4: want to paint a picture for the audience of just

716
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 4: how grim it is to be in the situation you're in,

717
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 4: and then also what you've managed to make out of

718
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 4: that experience.

719
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 7: Well, you know, I've got a quote from a guy

720
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 7: who knows suffering, and a couple of things have pip me.

721
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 7: I don't want to move forward, and it's positive. I

722
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 7: can be one of the supporters that I do have,

723
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 7: not just my family, but others, you know, total strangers

724
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 7: who have reached out. And it gives me a lot

725
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 7: of hope, and it gives me a lot of strength

726
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,720
Speaker 7: to endure. This is what I'm going through in this environment,

727
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 7: and it is terrible, it's absolutely But this quote is

728
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 7: one of my favorite quotes. It says that everything be

729
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 7: taken from a man, but one thing, the last of

730
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 7: the human freedom, and that is to choose one's own

731
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 7: attitude in any set of circumstance, choose one's own way

732
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 7: as a man named Victor Frankel. And you know, I

733
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 7: guess I've taken on this, this attitude, you know, that

734
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 7: which allowed me to persevere through through bud training to

735
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 7: the still training. I reached for this on a daily basis.

736
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 7: Now I put my feet on the ground and said,

737
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 7: I have to I have to continue on today, and

738
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 7: I have to push forward, and I can't allow this

739
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 7: environment to get the best of them. And I want

740
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 7: to transcend in spite of where I'm at. And so

741
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 7: I've looked to try to do things to try to

742
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 7: help out not only the people around me in my environment.

743
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 7: For years, I've helped guys to have struggle with drug

744
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 7: addiction or you know, criminal thinking, and I've just kind

745
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,959
Speaker 7: of made it as the part of my own our character,

746
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 7: just trying to help you guys out and to move past,

747
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 7: transcend some of these things in which they've been stuck in.

748
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 7: And not only that, proposed a dog training program. That's

749
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 7: the last institution that I was at. It was luckily

750
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 7: it was to prove and we had the dogs come

751
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 7: in and for about three years I was able to

752
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 7: be a dog trainer. And I had studied and read

753
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 7: up and learned so much about training dogs and I

754
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 7: really enjoyed that.

755
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 4: And how does that training program works? The dogs? Are

756
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 4: they rescue dogs? And what happens to them after they're trained?

757
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 3: Right?

758
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 7: So these are absolutely rescued dogs. These were abandoned. We

759
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 7: worked with a shelter out of Ashville, Virginia called bark

760
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 7: Bar Communty and that's the abandon the Jobson and Rescued Canines,

761
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 7: a really great organizations and they would bring us six

762
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 7: dogs at time and we would have them for three

763
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 7: months and we had a total of twelve dog trainers

764
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 7: too free stocks, and we would train the dogs. These

765
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 7: dogs that were abandoned and you never know what their

766
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 7: history was. They could than maybe beacon or however that

767
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 7: they were rescued and we were given the tools to

768
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 7: help train these dolls, and then afterward they were adopted

769
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 7: and we had an adoption rate of some ninety something

770
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 7: percent coming out of there, and we taint them in

771
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 7: basic and obedience. It was a really, really great, really

772
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 7: positive program. And from there I had gotten into Me

773
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 7: and another guy, we had been talking about different ideas

774
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 7: concerning the judicial system when we'd come across this idea

775
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 7: of restorative justice. And after we had studied on it

776
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 7: and we had gotten in contact with some restorative justice practitioners,

777
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 7: we decided that with our knowledge of this environment in

778
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 7: the prison and we knew what was lacking in this environment,

779
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 7: we knew some of the things that could help in

780
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 7: the rehabilitations of the solo inmates, we constructed a restorative

781
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 7: justice program. We're still in the process of kind of

782
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 7: fleshing out some of the more detailed aspects of the curriculum.

783
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 7: This is what my passion has been into for the

784
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 7: past few years. I've really been concentrating my efforts into

785
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 7: this program. And we have people and restore just practitioners

786
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 7: from university and other organizations really really like what we

787
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 7: have created and they want to help them out a

788
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 7: little bit.

789
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's you know what it sounds like

790
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 4: to me, it sounds like you're doing more good, like

791
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 4: I said, from this hopeless place then most people on

792
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 4: the outside can never even dream of doing. And that's

793
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 4: you know, that's to your credit obviously, and it's another

794
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 4: reason why it makes sense for you to be granted

795
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 4: your freedom after all these years. And if you even

796
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 4: allow your mind to go there, what do you want

797
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 4: to do? What's your plan?

798
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 7: Well, as you hit upon do I even want to

799
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 7: go there? I have been reluctant, especially after seven years

800
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 7: ago when I was expecting to get out and I

801
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 7: was denied that. It was a very crushing blow and

802
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 7: it was difficult to conserve. But yeah, of course I

803
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 7: do allow myself to think about once I'm out of here,

804
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 7: although I don't dwell upon it because I just I

805
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 7: don't know. I just can't go there for so much.

806
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 7: But the more I've gotten into restorat justice, the more

807
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 7: I think it's an extremely beneficial philosophy and instead of

808
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 7: practices to kind of complement our criminal justice system. And

809
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 7: so I really want to pursue that direction, and I

810
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 7: think that I could help out. I think I have

811
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 7: a lot of school or skills, I guess knowledge for

812
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 7: being in here for the last twenty two plus years

813
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 7: and observing things from the inside, I feel like I

814
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 7: have a great perspective to be able to help out

815
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:49,919
Speaker 7: in the restora justice.

816
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 4: That sounds like a great scenario to me, and we'll

817
00:44:53,280 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 4: have benefits to society across the board. I don't know

818
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 4: if you're able to talk about it, but it really

819
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 4: struck me earlier when you told me that the prison

820
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 4: or your pod is on lockdown. What does that mean?

821
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 8: Well, so where I'm at now, we've been on lockdown

822
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 8: the last two weeks, which means we're componed to our

823
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 8: concrete box, oursel and when we're coming out every seventy

824
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 8: two hours to take a shower, they bring the food

825
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 8: to our door. And I say our door because I

826
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 8: have a fill partner every shows two people for film

827
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 8: and just now I've been living for the last two weeks.

828
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 8: The moreover, it's pretty much now I've been living for

829
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 8: the last twenty two years. So when we're not on lockdown,

830
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 8: you know, I do have a potcum of freedoms that

831
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 8: you will you know, every one while I can get outside,

832
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:05,439
Speaker 8: take fresh air and work out. I've been rolled into

833
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 8: a horticulture class and learn about horticulture I can actually

834
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 8: have my fingers and the soil and be able to

835
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 8: have the opportunity to plant some feeds and vegetables and

836
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 8: so forth.

837
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 7: It's really been a positive thing, really really enjoining the horticulture.

838
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 4: And the last question about the prison experience, what is

839
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 4: an average day like when you're not on lockdown, you

840
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 4: wake up at five or something, How does how do

841
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 4: you get through the day?

842
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, so they have what they call count procedures in

843
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 7: which they have to come through and literally count every

844
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 7: individual while they're locked in the shell, about four times

845
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 7: or so every day, spread out throughout the day, and

846
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 7: during that time you have to be standing up and

847
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 7: your life have to be on so they can see

848
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 7: that you're alive and will and and that starts certainly

849
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 7: before six o'clock in the morning. So over the last

850
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 7: twenty two years, I've been up at five forty five

851
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 7: about that time and standing on my feet with the

852
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 7: lights on, the fluorescent lights every every morning. That's that's

853
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 7: one of the councilors, like I said, that goes throughout

854
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 7: the day and the kind of segments the day that

855
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 7: in the beating the channel feeding schedule, so the breakfast

856
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 7: lunch is center and these kind of condition you and

857
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 7: condition one into the the segments of the day. And

858
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 7: so there's a period in the morning after breakfast im which,

859
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 7: if we're lucky, we might get outside the recreation and

860
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 7: recreation consists.

861
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 8: Of a yard as a track.

862
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 7: I usually go jogging. If I'm able to, I'll go

863
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 7: into the weightlifting area and what's some weight and they

864
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 7: have a couple other recreational things. The guys be around

865
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 7: with the volleyball or the basketball. Otherwise there's not a

866
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,919
Speaker 7: lot of kind of rehabilitative programs. There are a few,

867
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 7: you know, I've been through a lot of those things,

868
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 7: but for most guys, I think that, you know, this

869
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 7: place is more of a warehouse humans than anything. It's

870
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 7: not really designed for as it's called, corrections necessarily, although

871
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 7: there has been, you know, steps towards that direction, of

872
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 7: the hopeful steps in that direction. You know, I think

873
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 7: that the governor has made some steps in that direction

874
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 7: with the re entry ideas and so forth. But you know,

875
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:24,720
Speaker 7: unfortunately there's largely the prisons are placed with the warehouse humans.

876
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 7: So there's only so much a mind to do in

877
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 7: this environment. So I do utilize my time studying, you know,

878
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 7: I spend my money on books and these the library

879
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 7: when I can, and so that's kind of how I

880
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 7: in my time.

881
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 4: Well, Dusty, all, I can tell you again. I know

882
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 4: you know about it, but I hope you can feel it.

883
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 4: There's a real wave of support for you among so

884
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 4: many people who care and who want to see you

885
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 4: released and able to get on with your life and

886
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 4: put this nightmare behind you. Of course, Lisa Speeds has

887
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 4: been a huge advocate. I think she's a very strong

888
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 4: supporter and a very positive and wonderful person. And I

889
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 4: want to turn it over to you. Typically on wrongful conviction,

890
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 4: I like to leave the last word open so that

891
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 4: you can share any thoughts you have about anything at

892
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 4: all with our audience. I'll turn it over to you, Dusty.

893
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 7: Okay, Well, as you mentioned the you know, we're of

894
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 7: my supporters at least that you've been certainly has been great,

895
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 7: especially in the what I understand in the social media field,

896
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 7: I guess and I do have a lot of very

897
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 7: strong supporters out here your Virginia. We're total strangers. Some

898
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 7: of them have gotten to know personally and they're just

899
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 7: just great people. And I'm very fortunate to have these

900
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 7: people in my corner and who have recognized my wrongful conviction.

901
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 7: As far as the last word, I'm thankful. I really

902
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 7: appreciate mister Bomb for interviewing me. Very thankful that increasingly

903
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 7: more people know that I have been wrongfully stick and

904
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 7: I hope that people, you know, maybe reach out and

905
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 7: talk to somebody. The filmmaker named j. D Weet has

906
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 7: created a film called The Target of Opportunity about my case,

907
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 7: and I was able to view it one time a

908
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 7: few years ago, and I think it encapsulates my situation

909
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 7: putting pretty well. And I just hope that people will

910
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 7: take some kind of interest and look into my case.

911
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 7: And I know that if anybody does, they will see

912
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 7: the travesty and the fact that I've been here for

913
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 7: over twenty two years for something I didn't do. I

914
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 7: had such a future brought up in the military. I

915
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 7: love the military and I was planned to make it

916
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 7: a career. I wanted to be in the film teams

917
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 7: and want to be one of the best fil team

918
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 7: operators in the country that I could have been. In

919
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 7: my world, it would turn upside down and a lots

920
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 7: of so many people over one at Brothers Guy, so

921
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 7: many people have been destroyed in ruin in a Brevns family,

922
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 7: my family, like city, and Billie Brown's family, so many others.

923
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 7: But again, I just thank you. I really appreciate opportunities.

924
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 4: Back to the interview, So Dusty, I want to repeat

925
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 4: that the name of the film is.

926
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 7: The name of the film is Targetive Opportunity.

927
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 4: Target of Opportunity is the film. I've watched it. I

928
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,399
Speaker 4: hope other people are listening now will watch it too.

929
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 4: And Dusty, I'm sure people are listening. They want to

930
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 4: know how can they get involved? What would you advise?

931
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 3: Right?

932
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 7: You know, unfortunately I am largely isolated. You know, I

933
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 7: have no internet access. I've never been on the internet.

934
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 7: I've never even used the bill phone. However, I think

935
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 7: that people could maybe visit. I know that twitters have

936
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 7: created a website at pre dusty dot org. And I

937
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 7: do know too that there's a Twitter and Instagram account

938
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 7: under my name of free dust Turner. I think, and

939
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 7: I know that's a very leaf reaching out there that

940
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 7: my supporters with I'm sure direct folks into the best

941
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 7: way that they might be able to help. I know

942
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 7: that writing to the governor Unitarry mccaullis in Virginia's directly

943
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 7: they help out. Other than that, I'm really not sure

944
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 7: what else to say about it.

945
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 4: Okay, So once again, that's free. Dusty Turner is the

946
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 4: Instagram in the Twitter. The movie is Target of Opportunity.

947
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 4: Please learn more about this case and get involved. Follow

948
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 4: Dusty on social media and there'll be more information there.

949
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 4: You can learn how to how to help, and now

950
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 4: is the time to do it, because we're really in

951
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 4: the home stretch of this, this effort to free Dusty Turner.

952
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 4: You have one in it, Dusty. All I can say

953
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 4: is hang in there. We're coming to get you. Thank you,

954
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,959
Speaker 4: Dusty for being on the show, and I'll look forward

955
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 4: to seeing you on the outside, hopefully sometime very soon.

956
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 4: You've been listening to a very special episode of Wrongful

957
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 4: Conviction Behind Bars with Dusty Turner. Dusty, thanks again, Thank

958
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 4: you sir.

959
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 8: Thank you for using GTL.

960
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 4: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you

961
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,760
Speaker 4: get your podcasts. It really helps. And I'm a proud

962
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 4: donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll

963
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 4: join me in supporting this very important cause and helping

964
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 4: to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocenceproject dot org

965
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,800
Speaker 4: to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like

966
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 4: to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis.

967
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,399
Speaker 4: The music in the show is by three time OSCAR

968
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 4: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on

969
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 4: Instagram at Wrongful Conviction on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast.

970
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 4: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flahm is a production of Lava

971
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 4: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one