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Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties podcasts featuring conversations with industry

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Speaker 1: leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, business

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Speaker 1: editor for Variety Today. My guest in New York is

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Speaker 1: Peter Raider, author of the new book Playing to the Gods,

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Speaker 1: Sarah Bernhardt, Eleanora do Say and the Rivalry That Changed

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Speaker 1: Acting Forever. This subject matter is a departure for Strictly Business,

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Speaker 1: But when I read this book earlier this year, I

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Speaker 1: was fascinated by the details of how the theater business

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Speaker 1: worked in the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds.

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Speaker 1: I was impressed by how much Bernhardt and do Say

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Speaker 1: were true entrepreneurs. They ran every aspect of their theater companies.

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Speaker 1: They commissioned their own plays and booked their tours. Playing

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Speaker 1: to the Gods as a beautifully written document of the

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Speaker 1: personal and professional stories of two women who helped define

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Speaker 1: what it means to be a superstar. As Peter explains

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Speaker 1: in our conversation, Welcome to Peter Raider, author of Playing

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Speaker 1: to the Gods, Sarah Bernhardt, Eleanora Doze and the Rivalry

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Speaker 1: That Changed Acting Forever. This is a terrific book. That

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Speaker 1: I just devoured. I picked up kind of randomly and

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Speaker 1: just absolutely devoured it. It's you bring to life an

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Speaker 1: incredible story of these legendary actor names that their names

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Speaker 1: that people know, but we don't know the stories behind them.

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Speaker 1: And what really struck me when I was reading the

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Speaker 1: book was what incredible, what an incredible story of entrepreneurial

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Speaker 1: fervor that both of these women exemplified in their lives.

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Speaker 1: They were as actors, they lead their production companies, they

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Speaker 1: were responsible for commissioning their own plays, they booked their

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Speaker 1: own tours, they soup to nuts, they ran their businesses,

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Speaker 1: and particularly Sarah was a forerunner of you know, understanding

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Speaker 1: how to milk celebrity culture, how to make herself one

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Speaker 1: of the most famous women in the world. The business

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Speaker 1: aspect of this is really fascinating, and that's what I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about today. So welcome, Peter, Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for having me. Um. Yeah, it really is

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Speaker 1: quite an inspirational story. Um. They were among the first.

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Speaker 1: Sarah was the first actress to really seize control of

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Speaker 1: her own destiny, and she kind of learned these entrepreneurial

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Speaker 1: skills in a sense from her mother, who was a

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Speaker 1: courtisan in Paris, in the demi Monde of Paris in

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, and her mother, Um and her aunt

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Speaker 1: ran away from home. Um they were they were from Amsterdam,

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Speaker 1: and they fled sort of an abusive household very young,

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Speaker 1: like twelve or thirteen, and ran across Europe and ended

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Speaker 1: up in Paris. And you know, her mother, Yule, was

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Speaker 1: quite smart and um, someone who was you know, had

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Speaker 1: sort of entrepreneurial instincts, and she said, I know business

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Speaker 1: that I can start. And she basically created a salon,

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Speaker 1: a courts in salon and ended up being you know,

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Speaker 1: right up there with some real celebrity clients, you know,

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Speaker 1: very famous people, influential people who then went on to

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Speaker 1: help Sarah and her career. And Um, you know, Sarah

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Speaker 1: um fell in love with with acting and the stage

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Speaker 1: in the theater. And then you know, at a certain

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Speaker 1: point she realized that she had leverage. Um, she understood

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Speaker 1: the power of her own celebrity. She actually created celebrity culture.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that she understood was that the

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Speaker 1: performance does not end on the stage. It's actually continues.

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Speaker 1: It's seven. In fact, her offstage performances were often much

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Speaker 1: more entertaining she figured out a way of staying relevant

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Speaker 1: and staying in the press. There was there was a

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Speaker 1: period in her life where not a day went by

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Speaker 1: where her name wasn't mentioned somewhere in a newspaper and

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Speaker 1: across the planet. She knew how to build her brand instinctively,

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Speaker 1: as it reads in your pages. Yes, um she and

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Speaker 1: you know that that sort of culture of the exotic celebrity,

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Speaker 1: kind of the Angelina Jolie or whatever, the person who

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Speaker 1: goes one of the things the her. She was propelled

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Speaker 1: to fame right after the Franco Prussian War where she

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Speaker 1: um decided that um, the wounded troops needed help, and

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Speaker 1: she basically commissioned her own theater. She was at the

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Speaker 1: Odeon at the time. She went to the theater, uh

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Speaker 1: you know, the owners and said, let's turn this into

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Speaker 1: a field hospital. And she was like, you know, Florence Nightingale.

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Speaker 1: She kind of put on a nurse uniform and she

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Speaker 1: got all her friends to volunteer. She commit, you know,

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Speaker 1: she got supplies that she needed and she was basically

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Speaker 1: taking care of the troops and that basically made her

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Speaker 1: national hero. And this is like the eighteen sixties, mid sixties. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a little later than that, um, and uh and so,

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Speaker 1: and then right after that her theater company went abroad

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Speaker 1: to to England, and um, she realized that the all

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Speaker 1: the British press was really interested in her and her story.

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Speaker 1: So she just insisted on first billing and you know,

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Speaker 1: and then and then right after that she she quit

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Speaker 1: the company and formed her own company because she just

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Speaker 1: realized that she had cloud. The celebrity profile was sort

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Speaker 1: of invented, you know, around Sarah Bernhardt. But talk about

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Speaker 1: the way that that the theater business was constructed in

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Speaker 1: those days, because again that that struck me that it

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Speaker 1: was so much of its you know, started and finished

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Speaker 1: with the stars. It was didn't seem like it was

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Speaker 1: as much of a circuit kind of a business that

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Speaker 1: you saw in the early twentieth century in this country. Well, um,

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Speaker 1: so they were repertory theaters and then there was they

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Speaker 1: ran a series of plays in rotation. You got to

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Speaker 1: think about the act that this was before radio, before TV.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the only the thing that you did to

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Speaker 1: be entertained at night was you went out to the theater.

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Speaker 1: So um, they made sure that there was a different

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Speaker 1: play every night of the week. So you kind of

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Speaker 1: rotated these these plays and in succession and the company

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Speaker 1: UM uh had you know, a bunch of UM plays

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Speaker 1: that were ready at hand, and they were popular, They

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Speaker 1: were entertaining, they were light, they weren't particularly heavy, UM

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Speaker 1: in terms of theme and plot, and uh, it was

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Speaker 1: a social experience. You went there, you kind of paid

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Speaker 1: attention to play kind of didn't you know, you were

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Speaker 1: kind of panning the audience with your offer or glasses

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Speaker 1: even more than the play. You know, who's who's wearing

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Speaker 1: wat and gossiping, and there was lots of noise. You know,

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Speaker 1: people weren't paying attention particularly the play. They probably had

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Speaker 1: seen it before. Um. They were kind of throwaway exercises.

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Speaker 1: It was a way of just gathering and you know,

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Speaker 1: having an entertaining experience. UM. They were run by men.

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Speaker 1: Men made all the decisions, you know, costume, casting, a rep,

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Speaker 1: you know what play was being played. And UM at

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Speaker 1: a certain point when UM Sarah realized that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the power that she had, she basically abandoned the patriarchy

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Speaker 1: and sees control of her own career and her own

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Speaker 1: destiny by forming her own company, which was unprecedented at

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Speaker 1: the time and again for a woman to waltz into

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Speaker 1: a theater and say, Okay, I'm going to book this theater.

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Speaker 1: And she I mean she in the book you you

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Speaker 1: describe she's booking tours across Europe, She's coming to the

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Speaker 1: United States. I can't even imagine, you know, people even

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Speaker 1: taking taking a woman seriously in terms of trying to

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Speaker 1: do that kind of a business venture. But on the

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Speaker 1: other end of not on the other end of the phone,

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Speaker 1: but on the other end of the correspondence was one

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Speaker 1: of the most famous women in the world. And that's

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Speaker 1: as you say, she knew how to leverage that. And

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Speaker 1: here's another interesting thing about Sarah is that her breakout role,

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Speaker 1: the role that really made her famous, was a man.

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Speaker 1: Several times during her career she played she she you know,

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Speaker 1: played the male parts. And her first role was Zaneto

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Speaker 1: in a play called Lupassant by Coupe and Um. It

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Speaker 1: was like he was a sort of a minstrel who

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Speaker 1: was stroll, you know, going around and it's about him

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Speaker 1: and his relationship with a older um Cordissan actually and

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Speaker 1: um that was her breakout role. And that's the first

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Speaker 1: role that she played, you know. And and her final

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Speaker 1: role was also a man. Um she played a a

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Speaker 1: morphine addict named Daniel um And and then in the

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Speaker 1: middle there she played Hamlet a couple of times. In fact,

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Speaker 1: right now on Broadway there's this there's this play called

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Speaker 1: Bernhard Hamlet, which celebrates the fact that she played tackled

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Speaker 1: theater's most challenging role. She had the guts to play

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Speaker 1: Hamlet multiple times in her career, including after she lost

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Speaker 1: her leg she had a leg amputator, that she still

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Speaker 1: played Hamlet. So there was something about that um gumption.

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Speaker 1: You know that she ceased, can you know I can

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Speaker 1: do anything? Basically that was a force of nature. You know,

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Speaker 1: she literally never stopped in her life, and she went

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Speaker 1: as the book recounts, you know, she went through you know,

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Speaker 1: Highs and Lowe's career like any like any actor today.

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Speaker 1: But the story of in nineteen fifteen, having her leg

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Speaker 1: for medical reasons amputated and still going out on stage

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Speaker 1: for almost another decade, it's just incredible. But she knew,

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Speaker 1: she knew what she had. She also took defeats and

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Speaker 1: turned them somehow, she spun them into triumphs. She would

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Speaker 1: and nothing. All publicity was good. It didn't matter what

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Speaker 1: she did, you know, she she just knew this idea

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Speaker 1: of milking you know, milking um every angle for for

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Speaker 1: for you know, for publicities purposes, and also celebrity endorsements.

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Speaker 1: She did that too. She she invented that whole idea

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Speaker 1: that you know, celebrities could you know, um, you know

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Speaker 1: aperitif you know, they would. There were soaps named after

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Speaker 1: Sarah Bernhardt. There was you know, beef Bull all, you know,

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Speaker 1: all sorts of things crazy. Um. Yeah, endorsements and let's

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Speaker 1: talk about Eleanora, a very different type of personality, very

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Speaker 1: different type of actor on stage, but still behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: She did that. She was also very entrepreneurial. Yes, so

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Speaker 1: um Eleanor is fourteen years Sarah's jr. And was very

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Speaker 1: much inspired by her in the sense of a woman

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Speaker 1: seizing control of her own destiny. Um. In Italy, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the theater was a little behind France. Paris

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Speaker 1: was the center of the theater um at that point,

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Speaker 1: and the French plays. Everyone was putting on the French play.

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Speaker 1: So um Eleanor was was doing French plays in translation

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Speaker 1: um and there were no real Italian play rights at

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Speaker 1: the time. And that's kind of one of the things

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Speaker 1: that she was her life mission is to really establish

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Speaker 1: the Italian theater and find an Italian play right, which

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Speaker 1: really got her into trouble um with this fellow named Anusia.

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Speaker 1: But we'll get to that in a second. Um. But um,

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Speaker 1: what what I thought was fascinating about this story and

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Speaker 1: this rivalry is it's very much like an Amadeus um,

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Speaker 1: which is one of my favorite movies and plays, um,

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Speaker 1: but in reverse because in some senses, the the Amadeus,

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Speaker 1: the prophet, the genius was obscured by history. No one

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Speaker 1: knows Eleanor Dousa's name. Everyone still knows Sarah Bernhardt hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty years after, you know, a hundred twenty years

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Speaker 1: after her death. She's she's still a household name in

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Speaker 1: some senses, because she made sure of it. She made

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Speaker 1: sure that she stayed relevant. Um. Eleanora kind of discovered

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Speaker 1: this idea of um, the modern style of acting, of

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Speaker 1: the idea of disappearing into your characters, the idea of

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Speaker 1: being a chameleon. And she also shunned the press. So um,

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Speaker 1: she she you know, didn't do a lot of interviews

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Speaker 1: and and um, she was not about, you know, calling

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Speaker 1: the spotlight to herself. So we kind of forgot her,

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Speaker 1: you know, and yet in her day critics would rave

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Speaker 1: about her technique and her ability and her her empathy,

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Speaker 1: whereas Sarah was a more heightened kind of what you

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Speaker 1: discret you know, what you described as pose acting, lots

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Speaker 1: of tableaus and lots of hands to the forehead, but

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Speaker 1: you know, of the moment and and a style for

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Speaker 1: her time, whereas Eleanora was really an innovator on stage. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In fact, this sort of the basic comparison i'd like

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Speaker 1: to I like to make is that in the nineteenth

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Speaker 1: century acting was very much from the outside in. It

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Speaker 1: was there were literally manuals of poses. You know, grief

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Speaker 1: was post nineteen, so you go up, come upstage and

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Speaker 1: you know, do post nineteen and deliver the line, so

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Speaker 1: you know, and the master actors like Sarah were champions

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Speaker 1: of these poses and they would turn them into works

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Speaker 1: of art and and um. You know what's interesting about

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Speaker 1: it is that it was very emotionally effective. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: like the audience was saying, oh, that's so funny. No,

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Speaker 1: we were completely buying into that convention and we were

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Speaker 1: sobbing in the audiences. I mean, there's all sorts of

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Speaker 1: anecdotes of people fainting, you know, during Cerebradhart's performances and

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Speaker 1: being having to be revived with smelling salts and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, because she was so emotionally effective and yet

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Speaker 1: and yet, at a certain point, playwrights started act writing

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Speaker 1: plays about things that were much more subtle, about the

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Speaker 1: disillusion of a marriage, for instance, like like Ibsen, you know,

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Speaker 1: a doll's house, a woman walking out on a on

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Speaker 1: a marriage. You can't really act that with poses. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, Eleanor is kind of rediscovered kind of original acting,

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Speaker 1: which is this idea of acting from the inside out,

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Speaker 1: of finding an emotionally truthful place and you know, acting

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Speaker 1: from from from that place in their own way. Both

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Speaker 1: of these women were helping to develop the visual language

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Speaker 1: of what is now. You know what what now plays out,

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Speaker 1: whether it's on stage or on screen. It's interesting. And

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Speaker 1: Eleanora how her own company and did not as not

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Speaker 1: as not as well and not as successfully for as long.

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Speaker 1: But she also was a businesswoman in her own right

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Speaker 1: in terms of packaging and putting together her own company.

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Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaking, yeah, absolutely, Um. She didn't nearly

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Speaker 1: have the um energy and stamina Sarah. Sarah, who would

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Speaker 1: you know, put on twice as many shows in any

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Speaker 1: given week, or maybe even three times as many shows.

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Speaker 1: Um Eleanor was a little sickly. She would often take

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Speaker 1: to her bad you know, do fewer performances. But certainly

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Speaker 1: in her time she was just as famous and just

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Speaker 1: as as powerful, and she definitely followed Sarah's example of

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Speaker 1: season control of her own career. As soon as she

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Speaker 1: realized that she could do that, she did. She um

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Speaker 1: partnered with with with a manager who would run run

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Speaker 1: the company, but she definitely made all the decisions herself.

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Speaker 1: And what for in her day in her prime? What

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Speaker 1: kind of what kind of money was Sarah pulling in?

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Speaker 1: I recall in the book it's a pretty stunning figure

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Speaker 1: for turn of the century. I'm trying to think what

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Speaker 1: it is in contemporary dollars, but it would be in

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Speaker 1: the in the you know, tens of millions. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: she was she and she insisted upon being paid in

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Speaker 1: gold sovereigns in her tour of America. It was like,

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Speaker 1: bring me the bag of gold before I go on stage,

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Speaker 1: or I'm not performing. When you think about the construct today,

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Speaker 1: like did she had was there like a promoter layer

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Speaker 1: that would help her or would would Sarah if there

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Speaker 1: was a fight with the theater over the over the splitting,

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Speaker 1: the splitting the receipts, would it be Sarah, you know,

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Speaker 1: having to go in there and and fight with somebody

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Speaker 1: for something like that. I think that Sarah fought her

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Speaker 1: own fights. Yeah, she definitely hadn't had the ability. You

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Speaker 1: know what's interesting, Um, there's a funny anecdote about promotion

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Speaker 1: and how Sarah would use publicity. Um. When she toured America.

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Speaker 1: One of her most famous plays was this play m

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Speaker 1: Camille Ladamo Camilia um, which is about a cortison who

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Speaker 1: falls in love with one of her clients and it's

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Speaker 1: an ill fated, doomed relationship the courts and also has

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Speaker 1: um tuberculosis, so she ends up dying at the end

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Speaker 1: of the play. Um. But it was you know, scandalous

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Speaker 1: and you know, um, it was a very popular play

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Speaker 1: because you basically got to go into the boudoir of

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Speaker 1: a cortisan see backstage like how that works that you know,

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Speaker 1: Demi Monde world works. Um. Sarah play the part over

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Speaker 1: a thousand times in her career. Um. When she brought

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Speaker 1: it to America, the puritanical sort of um uh, Protestant

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Speaker 1: community basically decided that it was scandalous and it needed

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Speaker 1: to be banned or we needed to boycott her plays

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Speaker 1: or whatever. So one of the um clerics, I forgot

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Speaker 1: in which community, but but you know, wrote some op

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Speaker 1: ed piece about how it was shocking or whatever. So

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Speaker 1: Sarah basically sent him, you know, a couple hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: saying thank you so much for that publicity. Normally I

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Speaker 1: would hire a publicists to do promotion of my but

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Speaker 1: since you've done the work for me, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to pay you this, please donate it to your right.

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Speaker 1: You know, she was a genius in that way. Um.

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Speaker 1: And how did the you you talk in the book

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Speaker 1: about how in later years the sense of the rivalry,

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Speaker 1: the competition between the rivalry between Eleanora's style and Sarah's style,

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Speaker 1: how that also became a business opportunity for both Yes,

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Speaker 1: um and certainly the promoters who were working with them thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is this is goal, This is like

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Speaker 1: you know, um uh McEnroe, Jimmy Connors, this is like

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Speaker 1: one of these things where we can just milk this

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Speaker 1: for all it's worth, you know, Um, and uh, so yes,

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Speaker 1: they had these you know, it's radically different approaches. It culminated,

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Speaker 1: um in the where Um, Sarah and Eleanor were both

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Speaker 1: playing the same play in the same city, across the

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Speaker 1: street from each other in London, in London's West End.

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Speaker 1: They were both doing this play Magda, which was a

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Speaker 1: very famous play at the turn of the last century.

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Speaker 1: And you know, in the in these two radically different styles,

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Speaker 1: and um, the London Times sent its uh definitive theater

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Speaker 1: critic to do the comparison review between the two, and

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Speaker 1: that was George Bernard Shaw, before he became a playwright,

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Speaker 1: was actually a theater critic, and his review is just delicious.

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Speaker 1: What kind of it must have been, you know, given

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Speaker 1: that both of these women died in the nineteen twenties, Um,

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Speaker 1: the research to to really bring these women to life

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Speaker 1: must have been you know, a lot of books and

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Speaker 1: a lot of diving into into very musty archives. What

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Speaker 1: kind of source material really helped you paint this great portrait? Well, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, first of all, thank god for Google. It's

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Speaker 1: just amazing what you can get, I mean, you know, Um,

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Speaker 1: and also the press at the time was was very

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Speaker 1: very active this was the sort of time of the

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Speaker 1: kind of the Hearst papers, and you know, there was

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Speaker 1: just constant coverage. And also both of them, especially Eleanora,

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Speaker 1: wrote just tons of letters, so you have these very specific,

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Speaker 1: very detailed um first person accounts of you know, what

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Speaker 1: she was feeling and doing. I also, you know, went

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Speaker 1: to Italy. I grew up in Italy. Actually my first

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Speaker 1: fifteen years were in Rome, and you know, I went

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Speaker 1: back and went to some of the places because I

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Speaker 1: like to write in a very visual style and I

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Speaker 1: kind of like to see the place and feel and

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Speaker 1: smell what what what is it really like? You know

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Speaker 1: these places. She she grew up in the Benetto region

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Speaker 1: near Venice, and you know, I went to some of

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Speaker 1: those places and really got a sense of of the

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Speaker 1: of the place and in the period um and uh.

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Speaker 1: And also you know, they both have been covered in

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Speaker 1: some really excellent biographies by by other writers, So you know,

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Speaker 1: I definitely went into secondary sources to um to sort

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Speaker 1: of fill out the picture. What would you say in

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Speaker 1: all your research, what would you say was the most

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Speaker 1: surprising thing that you learned, whether it was about the

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Speaker 1: business of the time or about the two women, was

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Speaker 1: there was there a moment. Was there a moment where

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Speaker 1: you would just floored to when you came across a

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Speaker 1: piece of information or I guess it was this Um

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Speaker 1: in the letters between Dousa and d Nunzio, her kind

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Speaker 1: of tumultuous love affair, the love of her life who

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Speaker 1: also tried to destroy her career and ended up betraying

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Speaker 1: her and and actually sleeping with Sarah right right, and

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Speaker 1: they were both courting him at some point they were

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Speaker 1: both courting him, and Sarah stole his play that he

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Speaker 1: had that Eleanor had commissioned from him. It's really quite

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Speaker 1: juicy that part of the book. UM. But what was

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Speaker 1: interesting is that UM in that period, the eies eighteen nineties,

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Speaker 1: is that the intelligencia we're really looking for answers to

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Speaker 1: deep philosophical questions, especially spiritual ones, and UM they were

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Speaker 1: reading ancient Vedic texts like the Baga a Gita and

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Speaker 1: the kind of sutra and and things that you know.

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Speaker 1: I UM did a move movie about this this Um

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Speaker 1: Yogi Parmahansa Yogaanda, and did a whole bunch of research

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Speaker 1: about you know, and I realized that they were reading

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Speaker 1: the same things that we were reading, you know, we've

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Speaker 1: been reading my wife and I, um recently about this idea,

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Speaker 1: the Vedantic idea of of of an expansive um divinity,

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Speaker 1: a divinity that's not a patriarchal bearded man throwing down

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Speaker 1: lightning bolts, but the idea of divinity being a field,

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Speaker 1: you know. And Eleanor called it the grace. There was

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Speaker 1: something mystical about the way she took the stage and

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Speaker 1: the way she approached her art. It was the idea

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Speaker 1: of subjugating your ego, or allowing the ego to actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, sit on the bench for a while and

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Speaker 1: let something else flow through you. And um, I was

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Speaker 1: intrigued by the fact that, um, she was reading these

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Speaker 1: really ancient texts which had just been translated. Yeah, she's

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Speaker 1: quite a Her intellectual life is very active, just as

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Speaker 1: her romantic life was as well. And she was an

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Speaker 1: autodied act. She never went to school. She was basically,

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Speaker 1: you know, grew up penniless and and kind of taught herself.

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Speaker 1: She was born in a trunk and born and died

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Speaker 1: backstage in Pittsburgh. Correct, she was she was she born,

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Speaker 1: She was born, she uh in a hotel room. She

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Speaker 1: was born and she died in a hotel room on

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Speaker 1: the road. Her entire life was on the road. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just an incredible story, and it's such an incredible story,

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Speaker 1: it just like screams to be a film or a

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Speaker 1: limited series. I understand there's some some movement in that direction.

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Speaker 1: There is, indeed, Um, I always do think cinematically, and um,

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Speaker 1: I am blessed to have this book already have been

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Speaker 1: optioned by Michael Susy, the Emmy and UM Golden Globe

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Speaker 1: winning writer director of Grey Gardens, terrific HBO movie from

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Speaker 1: a few years ago, Drew Barrymore discaling Yeah, two strong

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Speaker 1: female characters. So he's really kind of the ideal director,

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Speaker 1: and I'm so blessed to have him. Uh. It's one

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Speaker 1: of those things where I'm like, please, yes, take this

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Speaker 1: material and make it your own. And you see it

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Speaker 1: as a future film. Yeah, yeah, it could be a

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Speaker 1: limited series two in the vein of Feud, certainly there's

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Speaker 1: a precedent there. Um, but we'll we'll see what happens

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Speaker 1: with that. Great, Well, good luck with that process. What

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Speaker 1: else you're working on? Anything anything you can talk about? Um,

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Speaker 1: I guess I can. Um, My wife and I we

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Speaker 1: have a production company are creating an event in India

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Speaker 1: next year called Come Together, which is about um commemorating

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Speaker 1: the Beatles going to India fifty years ago and opening

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Speaker 1: up the floodgates to the idea of yoga and meditation

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Speaker 1: and basically changing the world um through the examination. You know,

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Speaker 1: now yoga is ubiquitous and it kind of began with

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Speaker 1: the Beatles taking an interest in it. Wow, that's an

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Speaker 1: interesting prison on history. All right, well we'll stay tuned

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Speaker 1: to that. Peter Raider, thank you so much for coming by.

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Speaker 1: You're so welcome. Thanks for listening. Be sure to tune

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Speaker 1: in next week for another episode of Strictly Business m