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Speaker 1: On this episode of the News World. My guest today

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Speaker 1: was on the now infamous call with President Donald J.

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Speaker 1: Trump and Georgia's Secretary of State Brad Raffensburger on Saturday,

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Speaker 1: January second, twenty twenty one, during which then President Trump

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Speaker 1: asked Raffensberger quote, so, look, all I want to do

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Speaker 1: is this. I just want to find eleven thousand, seven

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Speaker 1: hundred eighty votes, which is one more than we have

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Speaker 1: because we won the state. As a result of her

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Speaker 1: being on their call, her law firm was harassed by

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Speaker 1: a group of angry callers, many of whom demanded they

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Speaker 1: cancel her. The result was she resigned her position as

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Speaker 1: partner and stepped down from the law firm where she

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Speaker 1: had worked for two decades. Now, she's here to tell

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Speaker 1: her side of the story about the phone call and

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Speaker 1: the election of Georgia, and to talk about the left's

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Speaker 1: cancel culture mentality. I'm pleased to welcome my guests Queeda Mitchell.

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Speaker 1: She's a longtime friend and a champion for conservatives. She

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Speaker 1: just recently left her position as partner at Foley and Lardner,

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Speaker 1: where she worked for twenty years. Clia Mitchell has been

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Speaker 1: an attorney specializing in political law. She worked on the

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Speaker 1: Georgia state election fraud case for the twenty twenty election.

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Speaker 1: She has been fighting back against cancel culture, but more importantly,

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Speaker 1: she has been consistently conservative and has been just a

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Speaker 1: tower of strength for most Republicans and most conservatives around

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Speaker 1: the country. Clito is from Oklahoma originally, and she started

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Speaker 1: out as a Democrat, serving as a member of the

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma House of Representatives from nineteen seventy eight to nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty four. Why did you switch to Republican? Well, newe

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Speaker 1: and thank you so much for having me. You played

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Speaker 1: a role in that you probably don't remember. The first

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Speaker 1: time I met you. I was a fellow at the

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Speaker 1: Institute of Politics at Harvard in the fall of nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty one, and so was my dear friend, your dear friend, Eddie.

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Speaker 1: My and Eddie and I became fast friends that fall

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Speaker 1: at Harvard, and I began to talk to Eddie and

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Speaker 1: talk to some others. And I was living in Oklahoma

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Speaker 1: at the time had that fellowship. I was in the legislature,

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Speaker 1: but I began to see basically the federal occupation of

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma during the eighties, and I married a Republican Dale Mitchell.

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Speaker 1: He also always says that he helped with my conversion

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Speaker 1: as well. But I began to realize and watch what

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Speaker 1: the federal government was doing to the banks in Oklahoma

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Speaker 1: and to industry in Oklahoma. That's a whole topic for

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Speaker 1: another day. But I began to realize that a government

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Speaker 1: big enough to take care of all of us is

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Speaker 1: big enough to destroy any one of us anytime it chooses.

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Speaker 1: And I just began to realize that what I believed

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Speaker 1: as a philosophy politically was at odds with what I knew.

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Speaker 1: I had been taught the principles of raising children to

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Speaker 1: be self sufficient and independent, and that all of these

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Speaker 1: programs that were handouts were really creating a culture of

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Speaker 1: dependency that benefited a political class, and that was the Democrats.

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Speaker 1: And so I just thought, you know, both of these

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Speaker 1: sets of beliefs can't be right. One has to be wrong.

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Speaker 1: And I ended up going with the biblical and personal

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Speaker 1: principles I've been raised to believe, and then I never

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Speaker 1: looked back. And then I think I ended up moving

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Speaker 1: to Washington at Eddie's behest to work on term limits

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Speaker 1: for members of Congress, which was part of the Contract

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Speaker 1: with America and watched all the Democrats and all the

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Speaker 1: special interests who want to centralize power in Washington. They

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Speaker 1: don't want diffuse power. And it was a conversion process.

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Speaker 1: But I changed my party registration in nineteen ninety five.

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Speaker 1: So I've always said I was a byproduct of your revolution.

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Speaker 1: So given the time period of describing what impact, if any,

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Speaker 1: did Reagan have on you, well, you know, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: so much Reagan, honestly, it was you. It was what

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Speaker 1: you were saying when I got to Washington and I

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Speaker 1: saw what the National Democrats were up to, which was

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Speaker 1: very different than what they portrayed back home. And I

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Speaker 1: just began to realize that the powers that be in

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Speaker 1: Washington and the Democratic Party were such that you could

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Speaker 1: say whatever you wanted to back home, but when you

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Speaker 1: got to Washington, you were going to tell the mark.

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Speaker 1: And what they had done was become the party of government.

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Speaker 1: I guess really that's what got to me. Democrats always

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Speaker 1: say were the party of the people. I don't even

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Speaker 1: think they say that anymore. But what I realized is

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Speaker 1: that they equate the government with the people, and those

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Speaker 1: are two different things. And we've seen this change and

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Speaker 1: they are the party of government. As part of this process,

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Speaker 1: you ended up with a significant role with the National

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Speaker 1: Rifle Association. How did that happen? I was canceled to

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Speaker 1: the National Term Limits Legal Institute and co counsel in

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Speaker 1: the case that went to the Supreme Court in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety five on term limits. It was a five to

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Speaker 1: four decision against term limits. And regardless of how you

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Speaker 1: feel about the issue itself, there were twenty three million

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Speaker 1: Americans who had voted for constitutional referenda and initiatives across

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Speaker 1: the country to impose term limits on their congressional delegations.

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Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas's dissent in that case is one of the

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Speaker 1: best expositions on the tenth Amendment and the powers reserved

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Speaker 1: to the States and the people. After that case, you know,

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Speaker 1: my little Term Limits Legal Institute, really there was no

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Speaker 1: reason to continue with that, and so I went into

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Speaker 1: private law practice and had a small firm during political law,

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Speaker 1: campaign finance, election law, ethics, lobbying, the business and regulation

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Speaker 1: of politics and policy. And when the McCain Finegold Bill

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Speaker 1: was going through Congress starting in the late nineties and

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Speaker 1: on through two thousand. In two thousand and one. I

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Speaker 1: was very actively involved in trying to fight it, and

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Speaker 1: at the time, so was Wayne Lapierre. He understood that

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Speaker 1: if the First Amendment is eviscerated, the second Amendment won't

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Speaker 1: be far behind, and so we became friends. I was

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Speaker 1: on his radio show in the fall of two thousand

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Speaker 1: after the election, and we became friends that I became

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Speaker 1: friends with Millie Hallo, who worked still at the NRA,

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Speaker 1: and with Ralph Hallow and Wayne wanted me to help

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Speaker 1: the NRA and be part of the legal team to

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Speaker 1: fight McCain fine Gold after George W. Bush unfortunately signed

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Speaker 1: it into law. So that's how I got involved with

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Speaker 1: the NRA. You were very active with the NRA for

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Speaker 1: a long time, Yes, I was. I was involved first

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Speaker 1: as co counseling it became fine Goal case, and that

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Speaker 1: was in two thousand and two thousand and one, two

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Speaker 1: thousand and two, and then I was on a several

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Speaker 1: committees for the NRA, the nominating Committee and a couple

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Speaker 1: of other committees, and then I was elected to the

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Speaker 1: board and served on the board until two thousand and twelve.

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Speaker 1: So really for about twelve or fourteen years I was

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Speaker 1: involved with NRA and still remain good friends with everyone

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Speaker 1: over there. I think one of my earliest recollections is

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Speaker 1: just how dynamic you were and how incisive your understanding

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Speaker 1: of things was. It was really remarkable to watch you work.

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Speaker 1: Now you begin to get to know Trump. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eleven, in the situation that most Americans never

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Speaker 1: knew about, where Trump had put together a exploratory committee.

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Speaker 1: If he didn't just pop out of the blue in

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Speaker 1: two and sixteen, He'd been thinking about running for a

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Speaker 1: good while and actually tested the waters in twenty twelve

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Speaker 1: and apparently had a complaint meet against him by the

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Speaker 1: Federal Election Commission about the way in which he had

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Speaker 1: organized the website Should Trump run dot com. And you

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Speaker 1: ended up being involved in that lawsuit. Was that your

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Speaker 1: first real relationship with Trump? Yes, it was. There was

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Speaker 1: a complaint filed against him saying that he had used

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Speaker 1: corporate resources and had either he or Michael Cohen had

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Speaker 1: flown to Iowa on the Trump corporate plane and had

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Speaker 1: meetings regarding the potential for a candidacy, and therefore all

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Speaker 1: of that was a violation of federal law because you

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Speaker 1: can't use corporate funds, etc. They retained me to represent

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Speaker 1: them before the Federal Election Commission. I argued that he

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Speaker 1: wasn't a federal candidate. He was a citizen. He never

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Speaker 1: became a candidate, and if you don't become a candidate,

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Speaker 1: then none of the rules actually apply. And the commission

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Speaker 1: agreed and dismissed the case. But I actually had not

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Speaker 1: met him until about two years later, and Chris Ruddy,

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Speaker 1: the publisher and owner of Newsmax, introduced me to President

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Speaker 1: Trump then mister Trump in twenty fourteen. He didn't run

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Speaker 1: in twenty twelve, I think because he resigned a fairly

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Speaker 1: large contract with NBC for The Apprentice, But it was

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Speaker 1: pretty clear to me when I met him, and such

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Speaker 1: a gracious person. You know him far better than I

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Speaker 1: do personally, but such a gracious person in private and kind.

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Speaker 1: I had the feeling that he was definitely going to run.

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Speaker 1: At this time, he was really going to do it.

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Speaker 1: He was so worried about the country. If you talked

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Speaker 1: to him today, which I have in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks, the first thing he wants to talk about

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Speaker 1: is his concern about all the jobs that the current

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Speaker 1: administration and Congress are costing people all over the country.

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Speaker 1: So as part of your relationship with Trump, you ended

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Speaker 1: up being involved in the whole question of the Georgia

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Speaker 1: election results, and then that became quite controversial. Were you

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Speaker 1: surprised at how controversial it became. I'll tell you what

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Speaker 1: surprised me. What surprised me is that the cancel culture

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Speaker 1: started in immediately after the election to attack any lawyers

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Speaker 1: and dare any lawyers not to represent the Trump campaign

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Speaker 1: and any post election proceedings. You know, I've been doing

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Speaker 1: election law for many decades, and every state has a

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Speaker 1: process set out by state law for challenging the results

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Speaker 1: of the election. There are provisions for recounts, there are

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Speaker 1: provisions for court challenges, and that's part of the law.

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Speaker 1: And what began to happen immediately after the election was

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Speaker 1: that the Lincoln Project and the crazy never trumpers began

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Speaker 1: to troll lawyers and big law firms and demand that

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Speaker 1: no law firm allow any of its lawyers to represent

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Speaker 1: the Trump campaign in any post election challenges. And the

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Speaker 1: first victim of that was Jones' Day, if you'll remember, Jones'

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Speaker 1: Day was representing the president and the presidential campaign in

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Speaker 1: a case involving changes in the law in Pennsylvania. And

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Speaker 1: the case was to be heard by the US Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: So what we have is the Union Supreme Court hearing

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Speaker 1: a case involving the president United States, and Jones' day

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Speaker 1: is the council. And they started getting all these attacks

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Speaker 1: and they announced, look, we're just representing the president his

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Speaker 1: campaign in this one case. We've had it for a

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Speaker 1: number of months. That wasn't good enough, and so they

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Speaker 1: ended up withdrawing from that case, and I thought, here

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Speaker 1: we go. And big law all through the Trump administration

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Speaker 1: provided free legal services to many, many, many leftist groups

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Speaker 1: in filing suit against the Trump administration policies over and

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Speaker 1: over again, hundreds of times. So it's pretty scary when

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Speaker 1: you get to the point that they were clearly on

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Speaker 1: a jahad to keep any lawyers from any big law

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Speaker 1: firms from representing the president's campaign in the post election everywhere,

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Speaker 1: not just Georgia, but everywhere. So I will tell you

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Speaker 1: it was very difficult because I'm not a member of

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Speaker 1: the Georgia Bar and we were preparing a post election

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Speaker 1: challenge because there are more illegal votes included in the

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Speaker 1: certified results for Georgia than the margin of difference between

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Speaker 1: President Trump and Biden that's just a fact. We have

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Speaker 1: documented that we know who they are, their names, where

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Speaker 1: they live or supposedly where they're registered. We knew that.

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Speaker 1: We put together that case very painstakingly with data and

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Speaker 1: experts and fact witnesses signing affidavits under penalty of perjury.

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Speaker 1: But then trying to find a lawyer in Atlanta who

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Speaker 1: would put his or her name on the pleadings as

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Speaker 1: council of record. Not easy. No big law firm, so

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Speaker 1: we didn't have any of the advantages of a lot

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Speaker 1: of associates and paralegals and all. We had a group

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Speaker 1: of volunteers primarily and data experts that were pulling together

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Speaker 1: all of the data and records that we ultimately assembled

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Speaker 1: into a sixty four page election contest petition with more

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Speaker 1: than eight thousand pages of data appended to it as

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Speaker 1: a matter of public record showing the illegal votes that

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Speaker 1: are included in the certified result. But we never got

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Speaker 1: our day in court because the chief judge didn't appoint

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Speaker 1: a judge to hear the case for a month after

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Speaker 1: we filed the petition. What do you think if the

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Speaker 1: courts were so reticent really across the whole country. You

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Speaker 1: know that is the sixty four thousand dollars question. Because

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Speaker 1: the courts exist, the judicial system exists to keep order

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Speaker 1: in our country. So you take your disputes to the

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Speaker 1: courthouse instead of duels or people shooting it out high

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Speaker 1: noon in the streets. And if the court system fails,

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Speaker 1: our whole rule of law system fails. So to me,

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Speaker 1: this is a huge attack on the rule of law.

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Speaker 1: But I think that these judges began to be worried

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Speaker 1: that they didn't want to be canceled and attacked like

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Speaker 1: they saw lawyers and law firms being attacked. Some of

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Speaker 1: them were Obama judges. They're never afraid, by the way

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Speaker 1: to rule on things such as Stacy Abraham's sister ruling

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Speaker 1: to throw out certain registrations for the Georgia Senate runoff.

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Speaker 1: We kept trying to understand what was happening. Why the

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Speaker 1: chief judge is a guy named Chris Brasher in Fulton County, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: And honestly, he did not finally get around us signing

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Speaker 1: a judge until Jenny Beth Martin and Tea Party Patriots

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Speaker 1: organized phone campaign to start calling the Fulton County Court

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Speaker 1: Colerse office and his chambers demanding that he appointed judge.

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Speaker 1: So the case had been filed on December fourth, and

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Speaker 1: he finally appointed a judge on January fourth, thirty days later.

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Speaker 1: With all the resources of the Republican National Committee and

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Speaker 1: the Trump campaign, it seems like they were deeply under lawyered. Well,

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Speaker 1: they were not prepared at all. And interestingly enough, I

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Speaker 1: actually had talked to Martin Meadows and to the President

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Speaker 1: about this very thing in September. I said, you'd better

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Speaker 1: be prepared for the post election. This is going to

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Speaker 1: be Florida two thousand on steroids. It's not going to

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Speaker 1: be just one state. It's going to be six states,

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Speaker 1: or seven states, or eight states, And so we need

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Speaker 1: to have a whole separate team ready to deploy Monday night,

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Speaker 1: November second. These should not be people who are involved

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Speaker 1: in anything related to the election. This should be the

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Speaker 1: post election team, prepared to deploy wherever needed, as soon

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Speaker 1: as we know where they're needed. And they both said, yes,

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Speaker 1: we should get that done, and then I never heard

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Speaker 1: anything back. So no, the RNC wasn't prepared, The Trump

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Speaker 1: campaign wasn't prepared. They didn't assign resources. They were caught

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Speaker 1: completely flat footed, and that I'll never understand, because I

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Speaker 1: don't know. It just seemed to me that that was

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Speaker 1: pretty clear that it was going to happen somewhere, and

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Speaker 1: it happened everywhere. It was striking to me partially that

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Speaker 1: they had a much longer time horizon. You know, people

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Speaker 1: like Stacy Abrams who were out there two years before

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Speaker 1: the election reshaping the whole fight, and then getting the Secretary,

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Speaker 1: say Rafferens Brewer, to agree to what is a non

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Speaker 1: lawyer struck me as a totally idiotic concept, and in

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Speaker 1: terms of the agreement that they reached, which basically blocked

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Speaker 1: them from being able to track the absentee balance. Do

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Speaker 1: you have any idea why they agreed to that consent

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Speaker 1: degree because they're idiots and because Ravensburger became so concerned

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Speaker 1: about his media image and how he was thought of.

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Speaker 1: And I think that basically it was the Stockholm syndrome.

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Speaker 1: He was taken captive by the left and by Stacy

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Speaker 1: Abrams groups hammering him for a couple of years. As

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Speaker 1: I understand it, when he was in the legislature, he

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Speaker 1: was sort of a nobody, but he's wealthy, and so

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Speaker 1: he ran for a Secretary of State and so from

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Speaker 1: the moment he was elected Secretary of State. He had

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Speaker 1: all these leftist groups pounding on him, and so he

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Speaker 1: basically thought if he gave in to them that they

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Speaker 1: would like him. And you and I've seen that over

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Speaker 1: and over and over again. He didn't really have any

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Speaker 1: particular principles. Honestly, I had been there for a little

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Speaker 1: over a week when I finally sat down and read

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Speaker 1: the consent, the career Settlement agreement. And you can believe this,

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Speaker 1: It was signed by the lawyer who's also the lawyer

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Speaker 1: for the Republican Party of Georgia, and he had been

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Speaker 1: sitting across the table from me for a week, and

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Speaker 1: I began to realize that these lawyers, who had been

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Speaker 1: the Trump campaign lawyers and the lawyer for the state Party,

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Speaker 1: they were really not aggressive and willing to fight with

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Speaker 1: the Secretary of State. Two of them had worked for

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Speaker 1: the Secretary of State, and they may, for all I know,

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Speaker 1: have contracts with the Secretary of State's office, but they

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Speaker 1: were not willing to fight with the Secretary of State.

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Speaker 1: There were just so many things like that, and then

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Speaker 1: there was the power structure of the Republican Party behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes, was telling all the state wide elected officials.

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Speaker 1: You've got to distance yourself from this. We've got this

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Speaker 1: Senate runoff. I kept trying to tell them, you can't

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Speaker 1: distance yourself from the president or the Trump. Voters are

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Speaker 1: not going to come out and vote again because they

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Speaker 1: want to see all of us walking barefoot across broken

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Speaker 1: glass to right this wrong. But they did not want

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Speaker 1: to hear that, and so we literally had no help

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Speaker 1: from the power structure in Georgia or really from the RNC.

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Speaker 1: It was quite shocking. And the end, of course, the

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Speaker 1: big difference was the decline in Trump's support for the

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Speaker 1: two Senate candidates in northwest Georgia. Whether it's a dramatic

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Speaker 1: drop off, that was quite amazing. I thought, well, you

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Speaker 1: know what's interesting is that these political gurus, I won't

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Speaker 1: name them, but you know who they are. They believe

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Speaker 1: that what was important to do was just to get

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Speaker 1: past the general election and just focus on the runoff.

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Speaker 1: And I kept trying to tell them, if you think

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Speaker 1: that the people are going to forget about it, you're crazy.

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Speaker 1: They're not going to forget. They're not stupid, and they're

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Speaker 1: going to say, why should I go vote again? I

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Speaker 1: voted last time and it didn't do any good and

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Speaker 1: why should I vote again? But those political guys believe

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Speaker 1: they will tell you to this day the reason that

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Speaker 1: those Senate candidates lost is because we made too big

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Speaker 1: a deal about the problems in the November election. And

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Speaker 1: my view is they did not make a big deal

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Speaker 1: about it, and that's why the Trump voters stayed home.

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Speaker 1: In January David Prdue Kelly Leffler man, they couldn't get

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Speaker 1: away from us fast enough as we were trying to

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Speaker 1: address the problems in the November third election, of which

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Speaker 1: there were many. And let me just say, we identified

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Speaker 1: thirty three categories of illegal votes that were cast, encounted

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Speaker 1: and included in the certified results, and in just four

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Speaker 1: categories we have records showing from publicly available government records,

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Speaker 1: we have more than twenty seven thousand illegal votes and

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Speaker 1: the margin is eleven thousand and seven hundred and seventy nine.

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Speaker 1: And it just seemed to me that that was worth

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Speaker 1: fighting about. But you ended up personally putting a real price,

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Speaker 1: Well I did. I did. January second, I got a

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Speaker 1: call from the President. He was very frustrated because here

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Speaker 1: we had filed what we thought was a very solid

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Speaker 1: election contest, and it was nearly a month now and

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Speaker 1: we still didn't have a judge, and the President wanted

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Speaker 1: me to get him some data, just give me a

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Speaker 1: one page sheet showing some of the categories of illegal votes.

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Speaker 1: So we were working on that, and then mart met

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Speaker 1: Us called me and told me that the President wanted

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Speaker 1: to do a call with the Secretary of State. And

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Speaker 1: I said, well, I don't really think that's a good idea,

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Speaker 1: because at this point the Secretary of State had demonstrated

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Speaker 1: he was basically a liar and changed his story just

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Speaker 1: about that video that we were able to obtain from

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Speaker 1: State Farm Arena that they had run everybody off at

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Speaker 1: ten o'clock on election night and started counting again and

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Speaker 1: kept counting ballots for another ninety minutes, and he changed

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Speaker 1: his story three or four times on that particular piece

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Speaker 1: of evidence. The President was trying to get the Secretary

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Speaker 1: of State's office, and we'd been trying to do this

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Speaker 1: with the Secretary of State and the Attorney General and

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Speaker 1: the governor's office to say, we have our data, you

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Speaker 1: have data. Let's sit down and compare data and try

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Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of this. Are there illegal

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Speaker 1: votes or not? They kept saying no. We say, well,

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Speaker 1: we're showing the data that there aren't illegal votes. So

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Speaker 1: the President said, well, maybe we can get the Secretary

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Speaker 1: of State to agree to sit down and come up

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Speaker 1: with shared data or whatever, which we talked about on

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Speaker 1: the call. But we did the call. I didn't think

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Speaker 1: he should do the call. The other lawyers didn't think

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Speaker 1: we should do the call. But that was the purpose

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Speaker 1: of the call, and he was trying to get to

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Speaker 1: some closure, and unbeknownst to us, the Secretary of State's

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Speaker 1: office was recording the call. Then when they released the

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Speaker 1: call and the transcript the next day, there became this

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Speaker 1: flurry because I was on the call, and the Washington

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Speaker 1: Post runs the story saying before now, it was not

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Speaker 1: known that Clida Mitchell was involved helping President Trump, and

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Speaker 1: so the Lincoln Project and other left wingers. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know any of these people, but they started

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Speaker 1: hammering our clients, the clients of my firm. I've been

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Speaker 1: a partner at this firm for almost twenty years, and

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Speaker 1: it's a good firm. It's a national firm with a

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Speaker 1: lot of lawyers and a lot of families that depend

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Speaker 1: on this firm for their jobs and their livelihood. And

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Speaker 1: these people, these leftists, started trolling our clients of the firm,

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Speaker 1: calling the CEOs of our clients, posting the names of

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Speaker 1: our clients on Twitter and elsewhere, saying call and tell

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Speaker 1: these corporations that they need to fire Folly and Lardner

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Speaker 1: as a law firm unless Clida Mitchell is fired. Our

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Speaker 1: firm had to close down it's switchboards in all of

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Speaker 1: our offices. This hall happened on a Sunday, and on Monday,

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Speaker 1: Tuesday close down the switchboards. These people were calling my

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Speaker 1: partners and other lawyers in the firm. They were emailing.

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Speaker 1: I was receiving the most vile, obscene hate phil emails,

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Speaker 1: phone calls, literally hundreds of them. I saved them all,

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Speaker 1: by the way. I'd like to write a book and

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Speaker 1: publish all their names. But it didn't take me very

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Speaker 1: long to realize that they were going to crash our

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Speaker 1: law firm, and I was not going to let them

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Speaker 1: get away with doing that. So I just said I'm resigning.

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Speaker 1: I'm stopping this right now. So that's what happened. But

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Speaker 1: I'm not the only one who suffered these kinds of attacks.

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Speaker 1: Doctor John Eastman, a respected constitutional lawyer and head of

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Speaker 1: the Center for Constitutional Jurisprudence at Chapman University Law School.

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Speaker 1: He agreed to retire early. He has a fellowship this

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Speaker 1: semester at the University of Colorado and Boulder, and when

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Speaker 1: he got there, was told, well, we're still going to

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Speaker 1: let you have your fellowship, but you cannot speak, you

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Speaker 1: cannot teach. I told him just to take the time

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Speaker 1: to write his book. One of the other litigation consultants

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Speaker 1: with us, a young lawyer in Atlanta. His law firm

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Speaker 1: demanded that he resigned. And that's just Georgia, the governor

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Speaker 1: of Michigan, is saying that she's going to demand a

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Speaker 1: bar investigation of the lawyers who were involved in that

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Speaker 1: election contest. I mean, it's on and on and on.

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Speaker 1: It's a very serious situation when you have people who

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Speaker 1: are acting as lawyers trying to provide legal support and

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Speaker 1: assistance and a statutorily and authorized proceeding and suffer the

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Speaker 1: consequences of that representation. I just think that's against every

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Speaker 1: rule of American jurisprudence that I've ever been taught. But

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Speaker 1: it also went well beyond distillers, you know, strength, which

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Speaker 1: has been providing support for the Trump campaign's fundraising cut

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Speaker 1: them off basically with no notice. And I've been worried

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Speaker 1: because Stripe also provides a support for wind Red, which

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Speaker 1: is the basic Republican fundraising tool. I mean, how much

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Speaker 1: danger do you think there is a key moment in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two they'll just cut them off. Well, I

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Speaker 1: actually am making a presentation and I'm working on this.

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Speaker 1: I think that it's a huge danger. The entire wind

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Speaker 1: Red system is built on the Stripe platform, and they

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Speaker 1: can cut off the entire fundraising apparatus at the Republican

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Speaker 1: National Committee in the NRCC and NRSC has built. And look,

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Speaker 1: there's a conservative organization in California that called me the

434
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: same week that I was in the process of resigning

435
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: my partnership to say that they had received a letter

436
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: from their bank telling them that the officers of the

437
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: bank or the staff at the bank had reviewed their

438
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: website decided that the bankers didn't agree with the philosophy

439
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: of the organization. We're closing their account. There have been

440
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: shareholder resolutions promoted by a left wing group, Color of Change,

441
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: which is a project called the sum of Us sum

442
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: of Us, and they have proposed shareholder resolutions at the

443
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: last two annual meetings of MasterCard and Visa, demanding that

444
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: those companies refused to process credit card contributions to any

445
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: organization on the hate list of the Southern Poverty Law Center. Well,

446
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: that's most every Christian organization, it's most every traditional values organization,

447
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: any organization that believes that we should be concerned about

448
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: any social values, and really any conservative principles. We saw

449
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: that the insurance Commissioner in New York demanded that the

450
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: insurance company doing business with the NRA stopped doing business

451
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: with them. Political organizations, conservative organizations are businesses. They may

452
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: have a nonprofit tax status, but that's a tax status,

453
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: not a business model. And they need bank accounts and

454
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: credit card contribution processing and merchant bank accounts and insurance

455
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: and all of those things. They need databases, all the

456
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: big databases, Salesforce mail, Chimp, nation Builder. They're all left wing,

457
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: and they could eliminate the ability to communicate with an

458
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: organization's mailing list with no notice. So while Twitter and

459
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: Facebook and Amazon and all their cancelations are troubling, I'm

460
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: more worried about all of these other sort of essential

461
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: services on which organizations and candidates and campaigns rely that

462
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: are controlled by the left. They're big corporations, and big

463
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: corporations are not our friends. So I'm very worried about this.

464
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: It's amazing to me the network that goes from billionaires

465
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: to large corporations, to universities to the big foundations, so

466
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: that if you look to, for example, how much money

467
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter has raised out of all these kind

468
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: of establishment groups, it's astonishing. It is astonishing, and it's

469
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: particularly astonishing when you read, of course, now I think

470
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: Black Black Lives Matter has now scrubbed its homepage, but

471
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: it's not even an organization. It's now a project of

472
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: the Tides Foundation or one of the Tides Foundation entities.

473
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: But they clearly state that they're Marxists, they're trained Marxist socialists,

474
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: they want to eviscerate the traditional family, etc. Etc. Well,

475
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: if there's one thing that has damaged the black community,

476
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: it has been government policies that have destroyed the black

477
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: family in the inner cities. And here is this group

478
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: that supposedly helping Black Americans, which is due, which has

479
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: fundamental principles, doing the very thing that has been so

480
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: damaging to the black communities. All over this country, and

481
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: we have every corporation in America that has funded them

482
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: with tens of millions of dollars. You gotta wonder what

483
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: are they doing with that money. Yeah, it's all sort

484
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: of outside the law. It's all outside the law. It's

485
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: all outside the law. Well, but here's the other thing.

486
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: It's all tax deductible. Yeah, it's all tax deductible. You

487
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: can't tell me that it hasn't found its way into

488
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: political activity, which is against the law. A C four. No,

489
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: they are a project. They were originally a fiscally sponsored projects,

490
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: so they're nothing. They're just a group of people in

491
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: a bank account, a Ledger account. Probably they were originally

492
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: was something called the Thousand Oaks Project, which is a

493
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: C three, but I think when all the money started flowing,

494
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: dwarfed Thousand Oaks, which is not small in and of itself,

495
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: and they moved over to be a project, a fiscally

496
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: sponsored project of one of the Tides Foundation entities. Tides

497
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: Foundation has been one of the real menacing influences on

498
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: America for many decades, and Teresa Heinz Kerry is now

499
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: the president of it. But they have an umber of

500
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: entities both in the US and around the world, and

501
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: they are socialists, but they have literally billions of dollars.

502
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: It's sort of a great irony to somebody who is

503
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: as rich as Teresa Heinz keeps supporting socialism, I know,

504
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: and when all of her money was from her husband,

505
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: whose family made its money building a food company in

506
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: the good old American tradition. And by the way, I

507
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: would really encourage you to put together a book of

508
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: all those emails. I think it would be a real

509
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: education for many Americans to realize how much viciousness there

510
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: is that has now come into our system, better instance, civility.

511
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I guess I was going

512
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: to ask the question, how hard do you think it

513
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: would be to get a published given the number of

514
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: people who have come out against publishers citing any book

515
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: deal with Trump or members of the administration. Well, I

516
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: don't think I'd ever even try to go to one

517
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: of those traditional publishing routes. I don't think there's a

518
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: publisher who would touch a book that would in any

519
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: way countermand the false narrative about the twenty twenty election,

520
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: which is nothing to see here. Everything was fine, So

521
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any way that a normal mainstream

522
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: publisher would touch that, just as there's not a single

523
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: reporter who's bothered to read the election contest petition and

524
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: the data that is appended to it. It's a matter

525
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: of public record. I had a conversation with a reporter

526
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: from CNN just a couple of days ago who was

527
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: calling me for comment about something, and I said, let

528
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: me ask you something. Have you read the election contest? Silence?

529
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: I said, well, why don't you go to the district

530
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: court file. You're a reporter, you ought to be able

531
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: to find it. And why don't you read the petition?

532
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: And once you've read the petition and read the exhibits,

533
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: and I'll take you a while because we do have

534
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: eight thousand pages, then why don't you call me back.

535
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: I don't think i'll ever hear from that reporter, but

536
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: this is a reporter who's supposedly covering it, and I

537
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: think that was a very safe challenge. Exactly guarantee you

538
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: don't have to do that interview. No, no, no, And interestingly,

539
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: there's a narrative about twenty twenty. Of course, Katie Kurrk

540
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: says that those of us who think there may have

541
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: been something wrong with the election in certain places, that

542
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: we need to be deprogrammed. And I read an article

543
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: in the New York Times week before last. The headline

544
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: is what can the Biden administration do to help correct

545
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: the false narratives of the right? And in this article,

546
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: which is as a supposedly a legitimate news article, although

547
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: I don't think you can say the New York Times

548
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: as a legitimate news outlet any longer, but they were

549
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: interviewing experts who said, it appears that there's a corollary

550
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: between people who think that there was something wrong with

551
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: the election and people who have not accepted the government's

552
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: experts and advices about COVID. So now we're a syndrome

553
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: if you challenge either of those things. And now throw

554
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: in there, if you challenge any of the narrative about

555
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: what transpired on January sixth, and just trying to say, well,

556
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: I would really like the facts of what happened on

557
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: January six but if you challenge any of that, this

558
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: article is talking about how we need social services for

559
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: people who ask those questions that would be me, I

560
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: need social services and we need to be removed from

561
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: the rest of society. I mean, this is pretty frightening

562
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: stuff when you start hearing what these people are saying

563
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: and writing and supposedly legitimate news soundlets. They really are

564
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 1: in a sense to toiletarians. Yes they are, Yes, they are.

565
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: They Everything should be by the state. There should be

566
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: one set of assumptions. They talk about following the science.

567
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: It was something as novel, the novel coronavirus. Remember when

568
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: that was the terminology. Well, it seems to me that

569
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: you want as many hypotheses and ideas out there as

570
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: possible for a novel coronavirus. It seems like that is

571
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: the kind of thing you would want to have a

572
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: lot of different voices, a lot of different challenges, a

573
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: lot of different debate back and forth. But oh no,

574
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: we have not been allowed to have that debate. And

575
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: doctors who've made videos about where specialists in this area

576
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: and the lockdowns are very bad and here's why, and

577
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: YouTube removes that video. And there's a group of doctors

578
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: the last summer who gathered in Washington for the Second

579
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 1: Opinion Project and they said, here are some alternative views.

580
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: We think that the government doing this wrong or this wrong.

581
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: Got of our million Facebook views blocked, taken down, and

582
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: the media cheers that on. They cheer it on. I

583
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: don't think our founders ever would have dreamed that the

584
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: media community would use the First Amendment because they are protected,

585
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: they're shielded, but now they want everyone else to be silenced.

586
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: The First Amendment has protected the media for these hundreds

587
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: of years. They're never threatened, so they see nothing wrong

588
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: with silencing everyone else's right. It's just amazing. I want

589
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: to thank you for your candor and your courage. I

590
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: appreciate so much you're sharing with us. You know what

591
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: you've been through. I know it must be enormously frustrating,

592
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 1: but you know, you remember back just before Reagan got elected,

593
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: well Jimmy Carter as president, looked like the whole system

594
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: was falling apart. We're a very resilient country, and I'm

595
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: confident that will break through this. Also, I really have

596
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: been grateful for your courage and for your commitment to

597
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: preserving freedom. Well, thank you, Nate, and I want to

598
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: thank you for your encouragement. You've been a hero of

599
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: mine for a very long time. Now. Thank you to

600
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: my guest Clado Mitchell. You can read more about fighting

601
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: back against cancel culture on our show page at newtsworld

602
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: dot com. Newts World is produced by GINGWI three sixty

603
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Debbie Myners, our producers

604
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: guards A Sloan, and our researcher is Rachel Pearson. The

605
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steven Special Thanks

606
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: to the team at gingwis three sixty. If you've been

607
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and

608
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: both late us with five stars and give us a

609
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 1: review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now,

610
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: listeners of newts World can sign up for three three

611
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: weekly columns at English three sixty dot com slash newsletter

612
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm new to English. This is neutral