1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:22,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin Smokey Robinson as if having one of the most 2 00:00:22,836 --> 00:00:25,476 Speaker 1: beautiful and distinctive voices of all time. One enough, he's 3 00:00:25,516 --> 00:00:27,956 Speaker 1: also one of the greatest songwriters of all time, a 4 00:00:27,996 --> 00:00:32,116 Speaker 1: top notch producer, engaging performer, and then an indispensable part 5 00:00:32,156 --> 00:00:35,756 Speaker 1: of the founding and fabric of motown. In other words, 6 00:00:35,756 --> 00:00:39,796 Speaker 1: he's an institution of American music unto himself. But sometimes 7 00:00:39,836 --> 00:00:42,236 Speaker 1: I wonder if he's hiding in playing sight. A fus 8 00:00:42,356 --> 00:00:46,236 Speaker 1: music lovers take him for granted. This week, on February nineteenth, 9 00:00:46,316 --> 00:00:48,996 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, he'll be turning eighty five years old, 10 00:00:49,356 --> 00:00:51,156 Speaker 1: and because he's been around as long as he has, 11 00:00:51,276 --> 00:00:54,516 Speaker 1: performing year round, still putting out albums, I think maybe 12 00:00:54,516 --> 00:00:57,396 Speaker 1: we're prone to forget just how monumental he is to music. 13 00:00:58,316 --> 00:01:00,316 Speaker 1: With that in mind, and with Smokey preparing to head 14 00:01:00,316 --> 00:01:02,196 Speaker 1: out for another run on the road, including a three 15 00:01:02,316 --> 00:01:04,916 Speaker 1: night engagement at the Venetian in Las Vegas, we sat 16 00:01:04,956 --> 00:01:08,516 Speaker 1: down for a conversation about his life and legacy. Hopefully 17 00:01:08,516 --> 00:01:10,836 Speaker 1: it'll be the first many conversations we have on broken 18 00:01:10,876 --> 00:01:17,236 Speaker 1: record with the great Smokey Robinson. This is broken record 19 00:01:17,556 --> 00:01:25,196 Speaker 1: liner notes to the digital age. I'm Justin Mitchell. Here's 20 00:01:25,196 --> 00:01:28,676 Speaker 1: my conversation with Smokey Robinson. To see the video version 21 00:01:28,676 --> 00:01:32,236 Speaker 1: of this episode, visit YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast. 22 00:01:33,636 --> 00:01:35,556 Speaker 1: So happy to hear you have a Cadillac, because it's like, 23 00:01:35,596 --> 00:01:38,676 Speaker 1: whenever I go to Detroit, Man, that's the most beautiful thing. 24 00:01:38,796 --> 00:01:40,316 Speaker 1: I go to Detroit and you're like, yeah, I'm here 25 00:01:40,356 --> 00:01:44,116 Speaker 1: because everyone's got you know, it's Cadillac. It's uh. 26 00:01:44,916 --> 00:01:46,516 Speaker 2: You know, his field was right down the street from 27 00:01:46,556 --> 00:01:49,076 Speaker 2: General Motors. Man, and everybody had his field. 28 00:01:52,596 --> 00:01:54,636 Speaker 1: It's all American made. When you go to Detroit, it's 29 00:01:54,636 --> 00:01:57,076 Speaker 1: the most beautiful thing you ever seen. Man. 30 00:01:58,036 --> 00:01:58,276 Speaker 2: Man. 31 00:01:58,316 --> 00:02:00,876 Speaker 1: And so you still and you're still you're still driving yourself. 32 00:02:00,876 --> 00:02:02,636 Speaker 1: You don't want most of the time, you don't want 33 00:02:02,636 --> 00:02:03,396 Speaker 1: to call man. 34 00:02:04,276 --> 00:02:06,836 Speaker 2: I'm a very normal guy. Man. You know I don't 35 00:02:06,876 --> 00:02:10,876 Speaker 2: have chauffeurs and all this. You know what, I'm independent. 36 00:02:12,436 --> 00:02:15,676 Speaker 1: Did you ever have a period of time where you thought, 37 00:02:15,876 --> 00:02:17,396 Speaker 1: let me try, let me, let me get a chauffeur. 38 00:02:17,716 --> 00:02:19,356 Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, I only use the shaufe If I'm 39 00:02:19,396 --> 00:02:22,156 Speaker 2: going somewhere official, to a gig, or to the Grammys 40 00:02:22,236 --> 00:02:25,196 Speaker 2: or the airport something like that, you know, I'll have 41 00:02:25,396 --> 00:02:26,716 Speaker 2: a guy who drives me for that. 42 00:02:26,756 --> 00:02:32,676 Speaker 1: But for my regular What's what been very successful for 43 00:02:32,716 --> 00:02:38,876 Speaker 1: a long time as an incredible songwriter, singer, company man, 44 00:02:38,876 --> 00:02:41,596 Speaker 1: record mad I made VP of Motown for a period 45 00:02:41,636 --> 00:02:45,716 Speaker 1: of time as well. I'm an incredible career. What has 46 00:02:45,796 --> 00:02:48,316 Speaker 1: kept you grounded all these years? 47 00:02:48,836 --> 00:02:52,236 Speaker 2: What's kept me grounded the fact that I recognize the 48 00:02:52,236 --> 00:02:56,276 Speaker 2: fact that I'm very, very, very blessed man. You see, 49 00:02:56,316 --> 00:03:00,196 Speaker 2: I'm living my impossible dream. You know, as a child, 50 00:03:00,716 --> 00:03:02,036 Speaker 2: this is what I want to do with my life. 51 00:03:02,076 --> 00:03:03,676 Speaker 2: And I just from where I grew up in the 52 00:03:03,676 --> 00:03:06,476 Speaker 2: hood and all that just wasn't going to be possible, 53 00:03:07,156 --> 00:03:11,556 Speaker 2: you know. So I'm I'm very I'm very blessed man, 54 00:03:11,156 --> 00:03:13,916 Speaker 2: and I don't take it for granted. You know. I've 55 00:03:13,916 --> 00:03:17,796 Speaker 2: seen thousands of people come through show business. Man, I've 56 00:03:17,796 --> 00:03:20,316 Speaker 2: been doing this forever and they get hit record or 57 00:03:20,316 --> 00:03:22,116 Speaker 2: something like that, and they think, oh gosh, the world 58 00:03:22,116 --> 00:03:25,036 Speaker 2: cannot possibly do without me. Now they know me, So 59 00:03:25,716 --> 00:03:29,236 Speaker 2: I'm in You know, that's a bad mistake, man. You know, 60 00:03:29,276 --> 00:03:30,436 Speaker 2: I tell them all the time. If you think he 61 00:03:30,436 --> 00:03:31,876 Speaker 2: can sing, let me take you to my church on 62 00:03:31,916 --> 00:03:35,716 Speaker 2: Sunday and let you hear your sister Ada Maybell. You 63 00:03:35,756 --> 00:03:39,436 Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. So it's just, you know, you 64 00:03:39,476 --> 00:03:41,316 Speaker 2: have to you have to recognize the source and and 65 00:03:41,556 --> 00:03:44,796 Speaker 2: and and what allows me to do this. And I 66 00:03:44,836 --> 00:03:47,116 Speaker 2: you know, I just thank God has blessed me to 67 00:03:47,156 --> 00:03:49,436 Speaker 2: do it. And so that's how I feel about it. 68 00:03:49,756 --> 00:03:51,676 Speaker 1: I mean you when you say that, when you say, 69 00:03:51,676 --> 00:03:53,956 Speaker 1: if you come across someone who thinks they can sing, 70 00:03:54,036 --> 00:03:56,436 Speaker 1: let me take it to your church, I mean that 71 00:03:56,596 --> 00:03:59,436 Speaker 1: has been reality for your whole life. Coming from Detroit 72 00:03:59,556 --> 00:04:03,316 Speaker 1: where at eight years old, you know Aretha Franklin and 73 00:04:03,396 --> 00:04:07,756 Speaker 1: Irma Franklinton and her father, Reverend Franklin, and you know 74 00:04:08,516 --> 00:04:09,076 Speaker 1: the four. 75 00:04:08,956 --> 00:04:12,796 Speaker 2: Times and Daniel Ross lived Flordo was on the street 76 00:04:12,796 --> 00:04:16,276 Speaker 2: from me. Ridiculous. 77 00:04:16,476 --> 00:04:21,836 Speaker 1: You know what, what was primo town when you all 78 00:04:21,956 --> 00:04:26,356 Speaker 1: guys were just growing up and singing and just knowing 79 00:04:26,356 --> 00:04:28,556 Speaker 1: each other. Did you realize how insane it was that 80 00:04:28,596 --> 00:04:31,436 Speaker 1: you guys all had these magnificent voices? 81 00:04:32,796 --> 00:04:37,636 Speaker 2: You know what, man, I tell people all the time. See, 82 00:04:37,716 --> 00:04:40,276 Speaker 2: I think that we, first of all, we were we 83 00:04:40,276 --> 00:04:43,996 Speaker 2: were fortunate that there was a lot of talented kids 84 00:04:43,996 --> 00:04:47,156 Speaker 2: and young people in Detroit. And like you said, I 85 00:04:47,156 --> 00:04:48,956 Speaker 2: grew up with most of them because you know, Rees 86 00:04:49,036 --> 00:04:52,076 Speaker 2: Franklin right around the corner from me, And until Aretha passed, 87 00:04:52,116 --> 00:04:56,236 Speaker 2: she was my longest living friend because all of our 88 00:04:56,276 --> 00:04:58,076 Speaker 2: other friends in the neighborhood were gone, you know what 89 00:04:58,156 --> 00:05:01,316 Speaker 2: I mean, except for her and Diana, you know. And 90 00:05:01,356 --> 00:05:04,836 Speaker 2: so so I grew up with these people, and uh, 91 00:05:04,916 --> 00:05:07,636 Speaker 2: the the the We had a lot of talented people 92 00:05:07,636 --> 00:05:11,356 Speaker 2: around there, you know. But I believe that in every 93 00:05:11,396 --> 00:05:18,436 Speaker 2: big city, in every town, every little village anywhere in 94 00:05:18,436 --> 00:05:22,316 Speaker 2: the world, radio wise, with the amount of people that 95 00:05:22,396 --> 00:05:25,196 Speaker 2: they're that might be that same amount of people ratio wise. 96 00:05:26,196 --> 00:05:29,516 Speaker 2: We had Barry Gordy, you know what I mean. We 97 00:05:29,556 --> 00:05:33,396 Speaker 2: had a young man who had a dream, who about 98 00:05:33,396 --> 00:05:37,076 Speaker 2: eight hundred dollars from his family to start what became 99 00:05:37,316 --> 00:05:41,596 Speaker 2: Motown internationally, you know what I mean. So that's a 100 00:05:41,596 --> 00:05:45,596 Speaker 2: special man, you know. And he was our teacher, he 101 00:05:45,676 --> 00:05:50,556 Speaker 2: was our groomer, you know. And when I met him, 102 00:05:50,636 --> 00:05:54,916 Speaker 2: he was just a songwriter and a record producer in Detroit. 103 00:05:54,956 --> 00:05:56,996 Speaker 2: He was a young man and I met him quite 104 00:05:57,036 --> 00:05:58,836 Speaker 2: by chance. I tell everybody it was a god day. 105 00:05:59,476 --> 00:06:03,516 Speaker 2: Because the miracles and I we weren't called the miracles 106 00:06:03,556 --> 00:06:07,156 Speaker 2: at that time. We would call the matadors. But one 107 00:06:07,196 --> 00:06:11,476 Speaker 2: of our members when we graduated from high school, had 108 00:06:11,676 --> 00:06:13,916 Speaker 2: had his parents to sign for him to go to 109 00:06:13,956 --> 00:06:15,516 Speaker 2: the Army because he wanted to go down because we 110 00:06:15,516 --> 00:06:18,436 Speaker 2: weren't doing anything as a group. So his sister was 111 00:06:18,476 --> 00:06:21,396 Speaker 2: in a sister group to our group in Detroit. And 112 00:06:21,476 --> 00:06:24,676 Speaker 2: so when we went for the art one of the 113 00:06:24,716 --> 00:06:28,076 Speaker 2: members of our group, a guy named Ron White, had 114 00:06:28,116 --> 00:06:32,876 Speaker 2: a cousin who told us that Jackie Wilson's managers. Now, 115 00:06:33,116 --> 00:06:35,036 Speaker 2: as a kid growing up, man Jackie Wilson was my 116 00:06:35,156 --> 00:06:38,236 Speaker 2: number one singing idol okay, and he was from Detroit, 117 00:06:38,796 --> 00:06:40,676 Speaker 2: and he was just a man. He was just you know. 118 00:06:41,476 --> 00:06:45,876 Speaker 2: And so we had an audition with his managers and 119 00:06:45,996 --> 00:06:48,316 Speaker 2: we go to audition for them, and rather than singing 120 00:06:48,956 --> 00:06:52,236 Speaker 2: songs that were currently popular by other artists, we sang 121 00:06:52,276 --> 00:06:54,076 Speaker 2: five songs that I had written. I've been writing songs 122 00:06:54,116 --> 00:06:57,636 Speaker 2: since I was in elementary school or trying anyway. And 123 00:06:58,836 --> 00:07:00,876 Speaker 2: so there was a young man sitting over in the corner, 124 00:07:01,516 --> 00:07:04,236 Speaker 2: and see, I'm sixteen, and he looked like he was 125 00:07:04,316 --> 00:07:07,396 Speaker 2: no more than nineteen or twenty, you know, And I'm 126 00:07:07,396 --> 00:07:11,396 Speaker 2: thinking that he's waiting to audition after we finish. However, 127 00:07:11,436 --> 00:07:13,316 Speaker 2: he's listening to us very carefully, you know, and he's 128 00:07:13,356 --> 00:07:16,916 Speaker 2: just sitting in the corner listening. And so when we 129 00:07:16,956 --> 00:07:22,076 Speaker 2: got through singing these songs, Jackie Wilson's A and R 130 00:07:22,196 --> 00:07:26,116 Speaker 2: man who had been there listening to us, said, well, man, 131 00:07:26,196 --> 00:07:28,716 Speaker 2: he said, you guys like the Platters. You know, the 132 00:07:28,716 --> 00:07:30,556 Speaker 2: Platters were the number one group in the world at 133 00:07:30,596 --> 00:07:32,916 Speaker 2: the time, and they had Zola the girls in the group, 134 00:07:32,996 --> 00:07:35,396 Speaker 2: and Tony sang high. He said, you got the same 135 00:07:35,396 --> 00:07:37,956 Speaker 2: format you singing Hi and the girls in the group. 136 00:07:37,956 --> 00:07:40,196 Speaker 2: He said, we don't need another Platters man, and you 137 00:07:40,196 --> 00:07:42,796 Speaker 2: guys are not going to overtake the Platters, So I'm sorry, 138 00:07:42,836 --> 00:07:46,356 Speaker 2: we can't use you. So we're dejected and we go 139 00:07:46,436 --> 00:07:48,636 Speaker 2: out and we you know, the young man who was 140 00:07:48,676 --> 00:07:51,716 Speaker 2: sitting over in the corner comes out behind est. He says, hey, man, 141 00:07:51,756 --> 00:07:56,236 Speaker 2: wait a minute. So I said yeah. He said, where'd 142 00:07:56,236 --> 00:07:58,916 Speaker 2: you get some songs from that you sing? So I'm wondering, 143 00:07:58,916 --> 00:08:01,636 Speaker 2: why is he asking me that, you know, I said, 144 00:08:02,116 --> 00:08:04,276 Speaker 2: I wrote them. He said you wrote all those songs. 145 00:08:05,356 --> 00:08:07,396 Speaker 2: I said yeah. He said, well, I liked a couple 146 00:08:07,436 --> 00:08:10,236 Speaker 2: of your songs. Man, something to myself. I'm being polite. 147 00:08:10,396 --> 00:08:12,076 Speaker 2: I'm saying, well, thank you very much man, you know, 148 00:08:12,116 --> 00:08:15,636 Speaker 2: but I'm ready to go because you know so, so 149 00:08:15,716 --> 00:08:17,556 Speaker 2: he said, I like to cover your song, you know. 150 00:08:17,836 --> 00:08:19,716 Speaker 2: And I'm thinking to myself, maybe he wants to use 151 00:08:20,476 --> 00:08:26,436 Speaker 2: my songs audition with it, you know. So he said, Now, 152 00:08:26,476 --> 00:08:28,396 Speaker 2: when I buy records, and I still do that today, Man, 153 00:08:28,436 --> 00:08:30,316 Speaker 2: when I buy records, I want to know who composed 154 00:08:30,316 --> 00:08:33,716 Speaker 2: the music, who wrote the song. If it's just an instrumental, 155 00:08:33,716 --> 00:08:35,796 Speaker 2: who composed this music? I want to know that because 156 00:08:35,796 --> 00:08:38,676 Speaker 2: I like checking up on writers, you know. So now 157 00:08:38,716 --> 00:08:41,676 Speaker 2: I got all of Jackie Wilson's records, you know, and 158 00:08:41,996 --> 00:08:45,316 Speaker 2: so he said, yeah, he said, I'm Barry Gordy. What 159 00:08:47,156 --> 00:08:49,276 Speaker 2: you are Barry Gordy who writes all those sits for 160 00:08:49,316 --> 00:08:53,236 Speaker 2: Jackie Wilson and all that, Yeah, and some songs edit, James, 161 00:08:53,476 --> 00:08:57,556 Speaker 2: You're that Barry Gordy And he said yeah. I said, 162 00:08:57,556 --> 00:09:00,356 Speaker 2: I got all your music, man. He said, well it's good. 163 00:09:00,396 --> 00:09:04,556 Speaker 2: You got good taste, he said, but I like to 164 00:09:04,636 --> 00:09:06,996 Speaker 2: couple your songs. He said, you got any more songs? 165 00:09:08,156 --> 00:09:10,316 Speaker 2: He shouldn't have said that, because I had a loosely notebook, man, 166 00:09:10,316 --> 00:09:12,036 Speaker 2: with about one hundred songs that I've been writing to 167 00:09:12,156 --> 00:09:14,436 Speaker 2: elementary school, you know. So he takes me in this 168 00:09:14,476 --> 00:09:17,276 Speaker 2: little room and he says, sing some of your songs 169 00:09:17,276 --> 00:09:19,156 Speaker 2: from me. I like the sound of your voice. I said, okay. 170 00:09:19,316 --> 00:09:21,716 Speaker 2: So I sang about twenty songs a rare that day, man, 171 00:09:22,956 --> 00:09:25,996 Speaker 2: And I loved him because he never once said, okay, man, 172 00:09:25,996 --> 00:09:28,396 Speaker 2: I'm tired, I heard enough, or I got the gold, 173 00:09:28,476 --> 00:09:30,516 Speaker 2: I got a poet. He never said that. He just listened, 174 00:09:30,836 --> 00:09:33,836 Speaker 2: and every song he critiqued it. Because I've always been 175 00:09:33,836 --> 00:09:36,156 Speaker 2: able to rhyme stuff. I've always been able to. I 176 00:09:36,236 --> 00:09:38,396 Speaker 2: used to write poems as a child, and I've always 177 00:09:38,396 --> 00:09:40,556 Speaker 2: been able to rhyme stuff. But my songs at that time, man, 178 00:09:40,556 --> 00:09:43,676 Speaker 2: I only had two songs. The two did like that 179 00:09:43,836 --> 00:09:46,196 Speaker 2: made sense, you know what I mean. They were all 180 00:09:46,276 --> 00:09:50,476 Speaker 2: rhymed up, really good, but they didn't make sense, you know, 181 00:09:50,556 --> 00:09:52,596 Speaker 2: because the first verse had nothing to do with the 182 00:09:52,636 --> 00:09:56,156 Speaker 2: second verse. You know. First verse is, oh, my love, 183 00:09:56,236 --> 00:09:57,756 Speaker 2: I love you so much. It's so glad to have 184 00:09:57,836 --> 00:10:00,276 Speaker 2: you here in my arms and holding you like this, 185 00:10:00,396 --> 00:10:02,876 Speaker 2: and we should never part and all that, and it's 186 00:10:02,916 --> 00:10:05,996 Speaker 2: all rhymed up, you know. Second verse is, oh baby, 187 00:10:05,996 --> 00:10:07,796 Speaker 2: where are you? I haven't seen you in ten years 188 00:10:08,036 --> 00:10:11,116 Speaker 2: and I need you back bad. But it's all rhymed up. 189 00:10:11,276 --> 00:10:12,916 Speaker 2: But he got nothing to do with the bird first, 190 00:10:12,956 --> 00:10:14,956 Speaker 2: you know. So after a while he pointed that out 191 00:10:14,996 --> 00:10:16,756 Speaker 2: to me. He said, hey man, he said, let me 192 00:10:16,796 --> 00:10:18,196 Speaker 2: tell you something. He said, the song has got to 193 00:10:18,236 --> 00:10:21,716 Speaker 2: be like a short book or a short movie or 194 00:10:21,836 --> 00:10:23,876 Speaker 2: short story where the beginning, in the middle and the 195 00:10:23,996 --> 00:10:28,396 Speaker 2: ending tie in together and they you know, they go together, 196 00:10:28,476 --> 00:10:30,796 Speaker 2: you know. He say, your song is just rambling, he said, 197 00:10:30,796 --> 00:10:32,676 Speaker 2: But I want you to listen to radio and see 198 00:10:32,676 --> 00:10:35,396 Speaker 2: what's happening, you know, and see how songs are. You know, 199 00:10:35,436 --> 00:10:37,076 Speaker 2: he said, because you can rhyme really good, he said, 200 00:10:37,076 --> 00:10:39,076 Speaker 2: but I want you to just see how songs go, 201 00:10:39,276 --> 00:10:42,076 Speaker 2: you know. And he said, so do you guys have 202 00:10:42,116 --> 00:10:44,836 Speaker 2: a manager? So I said no, we want to manage. 203 00:10:44,876 --> 00:10:46,756 Speaker 2: He said, well, I'm gonna manage you. And boy, that 204 00:10:46,916 --> 00:10:50,636 Speaker 2: was just so I went out and we go out 205 00:10:50,676 --> 00:10:52,356 Speaker 2: and I tell the group and everybody's all happy, he's 206 00:10:52,396 --> 00:10:54,316 Speaker 2: gonna manage this and all that. So I go on 207 00:10:54,316 --> 00:10:56,116 Speaker 2: and I started listening to the radio, like he said, 208 00:10:56,156 --> 00:11:00,036 Speaker 2: to find out how songs go. The the continuity and 209 00:11:00,076 --> 00:11:02,156 Speaker 2: now they tie in together and all that. So I 210 00:11:02,156 --> 00:11:03,956 Speaker 2: could learn how to write like that. He started to 211 00:11:03,996 --> 00:11:08,636 Speaker 2: mentor me on my songwriter and everything, and so there 212 00:11:08,636 --> 00:11:11,076 Speaker 2: was no more At the time. I wrote a song 213 00:11:11,116 --> 00:11:14,196 Speaker 2: called got a Job in answer to a group called 214 00:11:14,196 --> 00:11:16,076 Speaker 2: the Silhouettes. They had a song called get a Job, 215 00:11:16,516 --> 00:11:18,516 Speaker 2: which was the number one record in the world at 216 00:11:18,516 --> 00:11:20,636 Speaker 2: that time, you know. So they're on Dick Clark one 217 00:11:20,716 --> 00:11:22,476 Speaker 2: day and they're getting a gold record from Dick Clark 218 00:11:22,476 --> 00:11:24,876 Speaker 2: for get a Job. And I see them. I'm looking 219 00:11:24,876 --> 00:11:27,236 Speaker 2: at it, and I'm thinking to myself, get a Job. 220 00:11:27,636 --> 00:11:31,156 Speaker 2: I'm gonna write got a Job. So I wrote the 221 00:11:31,156 --> 00:11:33,676 Speaker 2: song got a Job, Man, and I went down to 222 00:11:33,876 --> 00:11:36,836 Speaker 2: Barry's office where he was and interrupted him in a meeting, 223 00:11:36,996 --> 00:11:38,756 Speaker 2: all that I got it, man, I got it, because 224 00:11:38,756 --> 00:11:40,076 Speaker 2: he said, when you get it, come to me. So 225 00:11:40,156 --> 00:11:41,716 Speaker 2: I said, I got it. I got it. So I 226 00:11:41,756 --> 00:11:43,476 Speaker 2: sang it to him and he loved it, you know. 227 00:11:43,916 --> 00:11:46,436 Speaker 2: So he recorded us, and he put us on in 228 00:11:46,636 --> 00:11:48,956 Speaker 2: records out of New York, you know, because there was 229 00:11:48,996 --> 00:11:51,436 Speaker 2: no Motown, so we weren't in label out of New York, 230 00:11:52,236 --> 00:11:55,916 Speaker 2: and Got a Job turned out to be like a 231 00:11:56,036 --> 00:11:58,396 Speaker 2: hit for us, man, because there were three charts at 232 00:11:58,396 --> 00:12:00,796 Speaker 2: the time, four actually, but the three that were the 233 00:12:00,796 --> 00:12:03,356 Speaker 2: main charts were what they call the pop charts. Were 234 00:12:03,356 --> 00:12:05,236 Speaker 2: all the white artists are on that chart, you know. 235 00:12:05,796 --> 00:12:08,196 Speaker 2: And then they had the Rhythm and Blue chart, you know, 236 00:12:08,236 --> 00:12:10,196 Speaker 2: we're all the black artists were. And then they had 237 00:12:10,276 --> 00:12:14,436 Speaker 2: the classical chart, you know. So anyway, got a Job 238 00:12:14,516 --> 00:12:18,196 Speaker 2: goes to number five on the Rhythm of Blues chart, 239 00:12:18,836 --> 00:12:21,036 Speaker 2: so we know, okay, this is a hit man, it's 240 00:12:21,076 --> 00:12:26,316 Speaker 2: gotta be. So we had got a Job and another 241 00:12:26,396 --> 00:12:28,836 Speaker 2: song which was the other side of got a Job, 242 00:12:28,836 --> 00:12:30,876 Speaker 2: which is a song we had sung at that audition 243 00:12:30,916 --> 00:12:32,876 Speaker 2: in a song called My Mama and told me that 244 00:12:32,996 --> 00:12:34,876 Speaker 2: was on the flip side of got a Job. And 245 00:12:34,916 --> 00:12:38,196 Speaker 2: then we had another forty five with in Rerecords out 246 00:12:38,196 --> 00:12:41,676 Speaker 2: of New York and a song called I Cry, a 247 00:12:41,676 --> 00:12:45,036 Speaker 2: song called I Need some Money, not the one by 248 00:12:45,036 --> 00:12:47,476 Speaker 2: Barret Strong art Strong was money That's what I want. 249 00:12:48,036 --> 00:12:53,236 Speaker 2: But anyway, so we had those four sides with them. 250 00:12:53,476 --> 00:12:55,076 Speaker 2: Now we know got a Job. So he consists in 251 00:12:55,076 --> 00:12:57,636 Speaker 2: the top five that those four sides with them, and 252 00:12:57,716 --> 00:13:00,836 Speaker 2: come time to pay the royalties, which very still has this, 253 00:13:01,276 --> 00:13:02,996 Speaker 2: but come time to pay the royalties, this guy sent 254 00:13:03,116 --> 00:13:08,996 Speaker 2: us a check for foresights for the writing royalties, the 255 00:13:09,156 --> 00:13:13,836 Speaker 2: producers royalties, the for the UH, the publishing royalties, and 256 00:13:13,876 --> 00:13:16,636 Speaker 2: the group royalties. He sent us a check for those 257 00:13:16,636 --> 00:13:20,916 Speaker 2: four sizes for three dollars and nineteen cents for you know. 258 00:13:21,196 --> 00:13:23,076 Speaker 2: So I guess that was the start that broke to 259 00:13:23,116 --> 00:13:26,356 Speaker 2: camel's back for Barry because he started, he was really 260 00:13:26,436 --> 00:13:29,116 Speaker 2: upse three dollar ninety cent. So he borrowed eight hundred 261 00:13:29,156 --> 00:13:31,876 Speaker 2: dollars from his family and started Motown Man. And I 262 00:13:31,956 --> 00:13:33,636 Speaker 2: think that was the straw that broke the camel's back 263 00:13:33,636 --> 00:13:36,676 Speaker 2: that started him that wanted him to start his own record. 264 00:13:36,716 --> 00:13:39,076 Speaker 2: Where I thank George Goldener for that, cause he's got 265 00:13:39,116 --> 00:13:42,316 Speaker 2: all in records. So because that made Berry start Motown Man, 266 00:13:42,916 --> 00:13:45,436 Speaker 2: and UH liked, the rest is history. But I tell 267 00:13:45,476 --> 00:13:47,636 Speaker 2: everybody was a godday because he didn't have to be 268 00:13:47,676 --> 00:13:49,836 Speaker 2: there that day we went to audition man. He did 269 00:13:49,876 --> 00:13:52,196 Speaker 2: not have to be there that day, or we didn't 270 00:13:52,196 --> 00:13:53,476 Speaker 2: have to go on a day when he he was 271 00:13:53,476 --> 00:13:55,636 Speaker 2: there just to turn in some new songs to Jackie Wilson. 272 00:13:55,796 --> 00:13:57,796 Speaker 2: In fact, he had lonely tear drops with him that day, 273 00:13:58,076 --> 00:14:00,436 Speaker 2: you know, t t to to turne into Jackie Wilson. 274 00:14:00,716 --> 00:14:02,836 Speaker 2: So he was just there for that purpose. But he 275 00:14:02,876 --> 00:14:04,356 Speaker 2: didn't have to be there the day that we came, 276 00:14:05,156 --> 00:14:06,756 Speaker 2: and we didn't have to go the day that he 277 00:14:06,796 --> 00:14:08,636 Speaker 2: was gonna be there. Attorney knows himself. So I tell 278 00:14:08,676 --> 00:14:12,036 Speaker 2: everybody was God date because it just started a new 279 00:14:12,076 --> 00:14:15,276 Speaker 2: life for me, you know, yeah, yeah, meeting him like 280 00:14:15,316 --> 00:14:19,196 Speaker 2: that by chance like that, and then for him to 281 00:14:19,556 --> 00:14:21,316 Speaker 2: you know, take an interest in me and take an 282 00:14:21,356 --> 00:14:24,036 Speaker 2: interest in our group, and then to start Moti home 283 00:14:24,116 --> 00:14:25,716 Speaker 2: and you. 284 00:14:25,676 --> 00:14:27,836 Speaker 1: Know, it's it's really hard to believe. And there's so 285 00:14:27,916 --> 00:14:31,436 Speaker 1: many there's so many moments in that story where it 286 00:14:32,036 --> 00:14:35,116 Speaker 1: just maybe couldn't have happened or what you know, or 287 00:14:35,116 --> 00:14:37,756 Speaker 1: any other way, you know, just one thing you got 288 00:14:37,756 --> 00:14:41,716 Speaker 1: there slightly laid or yeah, after the break, we'll be 289 00:14:41,756 --> 00:14:48,796 Speaker 1: back with more from Smokey Robinson. Now all that talent, 290 00:14:49,596 --> 00:14:53,876 Speaker 1: but you you as well included an amazing, gorgeous, beautiful voice. 291 00:14:55,036 --> 00:14:58,396 Speaker 1: I mean, I'll never forget go with my wife about 292 00:14:58,676 --> 00:15:01,596 Speaker 1: maybe five years maybe twenty nineteen to go see you 293 00:15:01,636 --> 00:15:03,636 Speaker 1: at the Greek It was a little maybe was a 294 00:15:03,676 --> 00:15:07,876 Speaker 1: year earlier, and I'll never forget you finished ooh baby baby. 295 00:15:08,556 --> 00:15:11,996 Speaker 1: And I've i never seen an ovation that long or 296 00:15:12,156 --> 00:15:14,516 Speaker 1: that people and I saw Barry Gordy was like, right 297 00:15:14,556 --> 00:15:16,756 Speaker 1: over this way, I'm looking at Barry Gordon, I'm looking 298 00:15:16,756 --> 00:15:19,156 Speaker 1: at you and I'm tripping out. I'm like, that's Barry Gordy, 299 00:15:19,276 --> 00:15:21,836 Speaker 1: that's Smokey Robinson. You finished your baby, Baby, and it 300 00:15:21,876 --> 00:15:25,556 Speaker 1: was like a five minute standing over you. It's incredible. 301 00:15:25,596 --> 00:15:28,396 Speaker 1: I mean to this day, still an incredible voice. But 302 00:15:28,436 --> 00:15:32,156 Speaker 1: the writing talent that you had, you know, and then 303 00:15:32,196 --> 00:15:35,036 Speaker 1: to be a producer too, you know, you had so 304 00:15:35,236 --> 00:15:40,916 Speaker 1: much Like what what was it about music for you 305 00:15:40,956 --> 00:15:45,516 Speaker 1: that made you want to have all of those pieces? 306 00:15:45,556 --> 00:15:48,036 Speaker 2: Nothing made me want to have them. I guess it's 307 00:15:48,116 --> 00:15:50,436 Speaker 2: just a part of what happened for me, man, because 308 00:15:51,516 --> 00:15:53,436 Speaker 2: you know, like I said, after I met Barry and 309 00:15:53,476 --> 00:15:55,716 Speaker 2: he started to mentor me on my songwriting, and I 310 00:15:55,756 --> 00:16:00,436 Speaker 2: started to really concentrate on what he said about making 311 00:16:00,476 --> 00:16:03,916 Speaker 2: a song be a short story, something that somebody can 312 00:16:03,956 --> 00:16:05,836 Speaker 2: relate to all the way through and all that you know. 313 00:16:06,636 --> 00:16:09,356 Speaker 2: And so even today, man, when I said write, so 314 00:16:09,436 --> 00:16:11,916 Speaker 2: I want to write a song, I really want to 315 00:16:11,916 --> 00:16:14,116 Speaker 2: write a song. I hope it's going to be a hit. 316 00:16:14,716 --> 00:16:16,796 Speaker 2: I hope that, you know, when I record it on 317 00:16:16,836 --> 00:16:19,076 Speaker 2: myself or someone else, it's going to be a hit. 318 00:16:19,636 --> 00:16:22,236 Speaker 2: But it might not be. But if it's a song, 319 00:16:22,956 --> 00:16:25,796 Speaker 2: it's got a chance to live on for ten more 320 00:16:25,876 --> 00:16:27,476 Speaker 2: years and somebody can pick it up and say, hey, 321 00:16:27,676 --> 00:16:30,236 Speaker 2: I like this song and record it and it could 322 00:16:30,276 --> 00:16:32,556 Speaker 2: be hit if it's a song. So I always go 323 00:16:32,676 --> 00:16:34,836 Speaker 2: in with the idea that I'm going to write a 324 00:16:34,836 --> 00:16:38,116 Speaker 2: song first. That's my first goal. Let me write a 325 00:16:38,156 --> 00:16:40,556 Speaker 2: song before I ben going to the studio, and I'll 326 00:16:40,556 --> 00:16:42,476 Speaker 2: get in the studio man, and change it, you know, 327 00:16:43,036 --> 00:16:47,476 Speaker 2: and change something. Because actually that's how I was raised. Barry, 328 00:16:47,676 --> 00:16:49,716 Speaker 2: Like I said, bar Goodie is a wonderful teacher. Man. 329 00:16:49,756 --> 00:16:52,676 Speaker 2: He taught us so well. We just had his ninety 330 00:16:52,676 --> 00:16:55,116 Speaker 2: fifth birthday party, not to know, and all the artists 331 00:16:55,116 --> 00:16:57,316 Speaker 2: who and all the writers and producers who are still 332 00:16:57,356 --> 00:17:00,076 Speaker 2: alive were there and we got up and we talked 333 00:17:00,076 --> 00:17:01,876 Speaker 2: about him, and they all said the same thing. He's 334 00:17:01,916 --> 00:17:04,596 Speaker 2: a great teacher. He taught us, he groomed us, he 335 00:17:04,876 --> 00:17:06,956 Speaker 2: you know, he did all those things for us and everything. 336 00:17:07,436 --> 00:17:10,196 Speaker 2: You know, it's a great thing to have a guy 337 00:17:10,316 --> 00:17:13,916 Speaker 2: like him who has that interest in young people. But 338 00:17:14,036 --> 00:17:21,796 Speaker 2: we had the opportunity to do our works and to 339 00:17:22,236 --> 00:17:26,156 Speaker 2: go into the studio and record and and and to 340 00:17:26,476 --> 00:17:29,796 Speaker 2: uh play off of each other. We were. He very 341 00:17:29,996 --> 00:17:32,476 Speaker 2: created a sign that he had in the benning in 342 00:17:32,516 --> 00:17:37,636 Speaker 2: the lobby of HISSEO says, competition breeds success. So he 343 00:17:37,716 --> 00:17:39,756 Speaker 2: wanted us to compete with it that we were fierce 344 00:17:39,796 --> 00:17:43,556 Speaker 2: competitors man against each other, because we had we had 345 00:17:43,556 --> 00:17:47,756 Speaker 2: a policy in Motown whereas all the writers and all 346 00:17:47,796 --> 00:17:51,916 Speaker 2: the producers had access to all of the artists. It 347 00:17:51,956 --> 00:17:54,236 Speaker 2: wasn't like you know, say, for instance, I got to 348 00:17:54,316 --> 00:17:58,036 Speaker 2: hit record on the Temptations and automatically I was gonna 349 00:17:58,036 --> 00:18:00,476 Speaker 2: get that next Temptation record because I had It wasn't 350 00:18:00,516 --> 00:18:03,916 Speaker 2: like that, man. Everybody had access to all the artists, 351 00:18:03,916 --> 00:18:05,996 Speaker 2: and if they liked your song, you were free to 352 00:18:06,076 --> 00:18:09,956 Speaker 2: record it on them. And we had money morning meetings 353 00:18:09,956 --> 00:18:13,876 Speaker 2: where only the producers and writers were allowed in. Nobody 354 00:18:13,876 --> 00:18:16,556 Speaker 2: else from the company was allowed in those meetings. And 355 00:18:16,636 --> 00:18:20,436 Speaker 2: we sat there and we critiqued each other's music to 356 00:18:20,596 --> 00:18:23,276 Speaker 2: try to make it better. Even though we were competing 357 00:18:23,356 --> 00:18:26,996 Speaker 2: against each other, we were there trying. Man. I'll use 358 00:18:27,076 --> 00:18:30,556 Speaker 2: this as an example. My biggest competition as a producer 359 00:18:31,516 --> 00:18:36,636 Speaker 2: foreign artists was the Temptations against Norman Woodfield and barred strong. 360 00:18:37,476 --> 00:18:39,956 Speaker 2: Norman Whitfield could be in the studio recording a song 361 00:18:39,996 --> 00:18:42,076 Speaker 2: on the Temptation, and we hung out at Hitsfield. 362 00:18:42,116 --> 00:18:42,356 Speaker 1: Man. 363 00:18:42,556 --> 00:18:45,716 Speaker 2: His field was not just our workplace. It was our 364 00:18:45,756 --> 00:18:48,436 Speaker 2: hanging place. When you got back in off the road. 365 00:18:48,516 --> 00:18:50,836 Speaker 2: If you had been on the road or somewhere and 366 00:18:50,876 --> 00:18:52,596 Speaker 2: you got back in, the first thing you did was 367 00:18:52,596 --> 00:18:55,356 Speaker 2: to go home, change your clothes and go to Hitsfield. Why, 368 00:18:55,556 --> 00:18:58,476 Speaker 2: because everybody's over there. That's where we hung out. We 369 00:18:58,516 --> 00:19:01,756 Speaker 2: did everything there, man. We played games, we want to 370 00:19:01,756 --> 00:19:05,516 Speaker 2: each other's homes. We weren't just stablemates artists that you 371 00:19:05,756 --> 00:19:08,756 Speaker 2: knew each other from the same record company and we see, hey, man, 372 00:19:08,796 --> 00:19:12,556 Speaker 2: how you doing now? We hung out every day almost 373 00:19:13,156 --> 00:19:15,836 Speaker 2: We went to each other's homes. We had picnics, we 374 00:19:15,876 --> 00:19:19,876 Speaker 2: had outings, We went to the movies together the guys. 375 00:19:19,916 --> 00:19:23,476 Speaker 2: Nowadays or in the last few years, it had turned 376 00:19:23,516 --> 00:19:26,596 Speaker 2: to golf. But back in those days we bowld everybody 377 00:19:26,596 --> 00:19:29,356 Speaker 2: bold and well, all the guys we bowled every But 378 00:19:29,436 --> 00:19:32,836 Speaker 2: we did everything together, man, And it was just a wonderful, 379 00:19:32,916 --> 00:19:38,756 Speaker 2: wonderful place to be, and especially being a kid growing 380 00:19:38,836 --> 00:19:41,996 Speaker 2: up in Detroit and not thinking that any of this 381 00:19:42,156 --> 00:19:45,436 Speaker 2: was ever going to be possible, you know, And to 382 00:19:45,636 --> 00:19:48,836 Speaker 2: see all these people come along and be mentored by 383 00:19:48,836 --> 00:19:52,556 Speaker 2: Barry Gordy into and to have but more time to 384 00:19:52,596 --> 00:20:00,756 Speaker 2: become what it has become internationally is still unbelievable to me. 385 00:20:00,836 --> 00:20:01,036 Speaker 1: Man. 386 00:20:01,436 --> 00:20:03,756 Speaker 2: You know, Barry Goldy is my best friend, and I 387 00:20:03,796 --> 00:20:05,996 Speaker 2: just was at this house a couple of days ago, 388 00:20:06,556 --> 00:20:10,116 Speaker 2: and we talk about that all the time. How neither 389 00:20:10,156 --> 00:20:12,836 Speaker 2: one of us thought that. He didn't think it, you know, 390 00:20:13,436 --> 00:20:15,516 Speaker 2: he did not think that it was going to be 391 00:20:15,516 --> 00:20:18,116 Speaker 2: what it has become. He just was tired of people 392 00:20:18,156 --> 00:20:21,756 Speaker 2: not paying him. He wanted to start his own thing, 393 00:20:22,116 --> 00:20:26,356 Speaker 2: thank god. But yeah, so we had that kind of 394 00:20:26,836 --> 00:20:30,596 Speaker 2: that kind of place, man, and we had and we 395 00:20:30,636 --> 00:20:32,396 Speaker 2: still have for those of us who were still alive. 396 00:20:32,436 --> 00:20:36,036 Speaker 2: We still celebrate the Motown family because we were family. 397 00:20:36,476 --> 00:20:38,916 Speaker 2: We weren't just a record company. We were family, man, 398 00:20:39,156 --> 00:20:41,796 Speaker 2: and we had the Motown family. So, like I said, 399 00:20:41,836 --> 00:20:44,436 Speaker 2: we were at his ninety fifth birthday party, man, and 400 00:20:44,476 --> 00:20:47,796 Speaker 2: everybody got up and said basically the same things, how 401 00:20:48,676 --> 00:20:52,876 Speaker 2: he was our mentor and our teacher, and he's still 402 00:20:52,876 --> 00:20:55,236 Speaker 2: going strong. To man, he's ninety five, but he's only 403 00:20:55,276 --> 00:20:56,396 Speaker 2: about sixty. 404 00:20:57,196 --> 00:20:58,076 Speaker 1: Only about sixty. 405 00:20:58,156 --> 00:20:58,596 Speaker 2: That's great. 406 00:20:59,356 --> 00:21:02,116 Speaker 1: That's amazing. Can we go back to the there's so 407 00:21:02,196 --> 00:21:04,476 Speaker 1: much there, But can we go back to the competition, 408 00:21:04,556 --> 00:21:05,636 Speaker 1: the friendly competition, or. 409 00:21:05,636 --> 00:21:08,076 Speaker 2: Maybe not the found Yeah, like I said, you know 410 00:21:08,116 --> 00:21:09,996 Speaker 2: no more. It could be in this recording something on 411 00:21:09,996 --> 00:21:12,156 Speaker 2: the Temptation. I'm at the studio and he said, he's 412 00:21:12,116 --> 00:21:13,716 Speaker 2: smoke coming in. Man, I want you to sing ooh, 413 00:21:13,956 --> 00:21:15,556 Speaker 2: I want you to stump your feet, to clap your 414 00:21:15,556 --> 00:21:17,436 Speaker 2: hands or something like that. And I would go do it, 415 00:21:17,556 --> 00:21:19,796 Speaker 2: and he would do the same thing for me, even 416 00:21:19,836 --> 00:21:22,796 Speaker 2: though we were competing against this record for the Temptations, 417 00:21:22,836 --> 00:21:26,196 Speaker 2: you know. So that's just the way it was. We 418 00:21:26,236 --> 00:21:30,156 Speaker 2: all did that for each other. I you know, when 419 00:21:30,196 --> 00:21:33,076 Speaker 2: I look back, and it's kind of like unbelievable that 420 00:21:33,156 --> 00:21:37,796 Speaker 2: we had that kind of relationship with each other and 421 00:21:37,316 --> 00:21:42,316 Speaker 2: and all of us had it, and we, like I said, 422 00:21:42,356 --> 00:21:44,796 Speaker 2: we were just a family. And that's rare. 423 00:21:45,596 --> 00:21:49,556 Speaker 1: Although you even had some competition with Barry when it 424 00:21:49,596 --> 00:21:52,476 Speaker 1: comes to songwriting with the Temptation with Barry Gordy. 425 00:21:52,876 --> 00:21:56,156 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, well Barry, we had a competition 426 00:21:56,236 --> 00:21:59,596 Speaker 3: with Barry Gordy first before Norman we really even came 427 00:21:59,676 --> 00:22:05,316 Speaker 3: to Motown, and I had known Melvin who was the 428 00:22:05,316 --> 00:22:07,236 Speaker 3: bass singer and Otis who was the founder of the 429 00:22:07,276 --> 00:22:09,916 Speaker 3: group since high school, because we used to have. 430 00:22:09,916 --> 00:22:13,276 Speaker 2: Group battles man, and they would called the Distance at 431 00:22:13,316 --> 00:22:16,316 Speaker 2: that time, and we were called the Five Chimes, you know. 432 00:22:16,916 --> 00:22:20,236 Speaker 2: And we used to have group battles all the groups 433 00:22:20,236 --> 00:22:22,196 Speaker 2: in the neighborhood. And so we had group battles man 434 00:22:22,596 --> 00:22:25,556 Speaker 2: singing for the girls who who you know, and we'd 435 00:22:25,556 --> 00:22:28,036 Speaker 2: had them at the recreation center and at school and 436 00:22:28,516 --> 00:22:30,596 Speaker 2: on the street corner wherever we saw some girls, we 437 00:22:31,036 --> 00:22:34,396 Speaker 2: had group battles, you know. And the group at that 438 00:22:34,436 --> 00:22:37,436 Speaker 2: time they were called the Four Aims, but they turned 439 00:22:37,436 --> 00:22:39,956 Speaker 2: out to be the Four Tops. And you knew if 440 00:22:39,956 --> 00:22:41,716 Speaker 2: the Four Aims were coming the best you were going 441 00:22:41,796 --> 00:22:44,196 Speaker 2: to get his second place, you know what I'm saying, 442 00:22:44,236 --> 00:22:48,796 Speaker 2: because they were you know, so you knew that if 443 00:22:48,836 --> 00:22:53,196 Speaker 2: they're coming, just shoot for second place the first place 444 00:22:53,236 --> 00:22:56,156 Speaker 2: sided the question. But we had those battles like that, man, 445 00:22:56,236 --> 00:23:00,036 Speaker 2: And so I had known Otis and Melbourne from that 446 00:23:00,316 --> 00:23:03,356 Speaker 2: from before they came over. And when they came to 447 00:23:03,396 --> 00:23:10,276 Speaker 2: audition for us, man, everybody loved them. And then we 448 00:23:10,356 --> 00:23:12,116 Speaker 2: signed them and they had to think of a name 449 00:23:12,156 --> 00:23:15,196 Speaker 2: for themselves and they came up with the name of 450 00:23:15,196 --> 00:23:18,596 Speaker 2: the Temptations, but very and I used to battle over 451 00:23:18,596 --> 00:23:20,276 Speaker 2: who was gonna get the first record out on them. 452 00:23:20,516 --> 00:23:22,076 Speaker 2: And I actually had the first record out on them, 453 00:23:22,116 --> 00:23:24,116 Speaker 2: a song called I Want to Love I Can See, 454 00:23:24,916 --> 00:23:28,516 Speaker 2: and I beat him out on that, you know. But 455 00:23:29,316 --> 00:23:32,476 Speaker 2: you know, he did a lot of good records on them. 456 00:23:33,076 --> 00:23:36,316 Speaker 2: And at first when they came over, they had like 457 00:23:36,396 --> 00:23:41,396 Speaker 2: three lead singers and everybody used Paul Williams, who who 458 00:23:41,516 --> 00:23:44,356 Speaker 2: was the basically lead singer for them, you know. But 459 00:23:44,996 --> 00:23:46,956 Speaker 2: Eddie Kendricks was in that group. 460 00:23:46,836 --> 00:23:46,916 Speaker 1: And. 461 00:23:48,996 --> 00:23:54,076 Speaker 2: Eventually David Ruffin was in that group, you know. So anyway, 462 00:23:54,356 --> 00:23:57,636 Speaker 2: we all were trying to get hits on them and 463 00:23:57,676 --> 00:23:59,116 Speaker 2: the Miracles, and I had gone on the road and 464 00:23:59,116 --> 00:24:00,596 Speaker 2: I told Tim, I said, I'm gonna get a hit 465 00:24:00,636 --> 00:24:03,996 Speaker 2: for y'all, you know, and the Temptations. If I brought 466 00:24:04,356 --> 00:24:10,116 Speaker 2: David and Eddie and Melvin and Otis and Paul in 467 00:24:10,156 --> 00:24:12,956 Speaker 2: this room right here, right now, and they were still 468 00:24:12,996 --> 00:24:17,036 Speaker 2: alive and say, hey man, sing ooh, And they said, ooh. 469 00:24:17,356 --> 00:24:20,436 Speaker 2: They could shake this room, that's how close and tight 470 00:24:20,476 --> 00:24:23,156 Speaker 2: they were. And Melverne was way down on the bottom 471 00:24:23,396 --> 00:24:25,436 Speaker 2: and Eddie was way up on the top and everybody 472 00:24:25,516 --> 00:24:28,476 Speaker 2: was in between them, and they were just their harmony 473 00:24:28,636 --> 00:24:30,356 Speaker 2: was I used to I used to call them five 474 00:24:30,356 --> 00:24:32,956 Speaker 2: deacons because they had that gospel sound to me. You know, 475 00:24:32,956 --> 00:24:35,316 Speaker 2: I call them five deacons. You know, this as our 476 00:24:35,516 --> 00:24:38,836 Speaker 2: friendly thing. So I wanted to write something for them 477 00:24:38,876 --> 00:24:42,556 Speaker 2: where that harmony was displayed. Okay, so the miracle's not 478 00:24:42,636 --> 00:24:45,156 Speaker 2: on the road and on the way back one day, 479 00:24:45,196 --> 00:24:47,116 Speaker 2: you know, we there were three of us who drove, 480 00:24:48,156 --> 00:24:50,796 Speaker 2: and so after we got about two hundred miles off 481 00:24:50,796 --> 00:24:53,436 Speaker 2: from Detroit, it was my turn to drive again. So 482 00:24:54,116 --> 00:24:57,196 Speaker 2: everybody else was asleep, and I'm driving the car and 483 00:24:57,236 --> 00:25:00,716 Speaker 2: I'm thinking, what can I write for the Temptations that's 484 00:25:00,756 --> 00:25:04,876 Speaker 2: gonna display that harmony? And you know, it's like I said, 485 00:25:05,156 --> 00:25:07,476 Speaker 2: I'm not a songwriter who needs to go to the 486 00:25:07,556 --> 00:25:11,716 Speaker 2: mountains or to the desert for two months and isolated 487 00:25:11,716 --> 00:25:14,596 Speaker 2: myself so that I can write and it just happens 488 00:25:14,596 --> 00:25:17,156 Speaker 2: for me, man, and just have something. I'm in the 489 00:25:17,196 --> 00:25:20,676 Speaker 2: car and I started to hum something that I thought 490 00:25:21,076 --> 00:25:25,036 Speaker 2: would beat them singing. Got a smile so right, and 491 00:25:25,116 --> 00:25:27,636 Speaker 2: I could hear them singing that, and so I started 492 00:25:27,676 --> 00:25:29,156 Speaker 2: to write the way you do the things you do 493 00:25:29,636 --> 00:25:34,516 Speaker 2: in the car wow and got back man. And I 494 00:25:34,556 --> 00:25:35,916 Speaker 2: told Barry, I said, man, I got a hit for 495 00:25:35,956 --> 00:25:37,956 Speaker 2: the Temptations. I got it. He said, you got it, 496 00:25:37,956 --> 00:25:40,356 Speaker 2: you got He said it is too late. I said, 497 00:25:40,356 --> 00:25:41,876 Speaker 2: what you mean, I'm too late? He said, I already 498 00:25:42,156 --> 00:25:44,636 Speaker 2: record a hit on them, and it's coming out next week. 499 00:25:44,796 --> 00:25:47,756 Speaker 2: It's all pressed up. Everything is coming out next week. 500 00:25:48,356 --> 00:25:50,076 Speaker 2: So I said, man, I say, you making a mistake. 501 00:25:50,156 --> 00:25:51,716 Speaker 2: I said, I got a real hit for him. Me said, 502 00:25:51,716 --> 00:25:54,076 Speaker 2: master real here too, Man, I say, so, we just 503 00:25:54,156 --> 00:25:58,156 Speaker 2: to have contests. Man. We would go out and stop 504 00:25:58,276 --> 00:26:02,316 Speaker 2: cars in front of Hitzel, say hey, hey, you want 505 00:26:02,316 --> 00:26:04,836 Speaker 2: to heed some new motile music that you never heard. Yeah, 506 00:26:04,996 --> 00:26:06,796 Speaker 2: they come in. We give them a pencil, beats of 507 00:26:06,796 --> 00:26:09,036 Speaker 2: paper and play five songs on right down to wats 508 00:26:09,036 --> 00:26:10,996 Speaker 2: you like the best, or get the people from around 509 00:26:10,996 --> 00:26:13,316 Speaker 2: the office and right down the world you like the best? 510 00:26:13,356 --> 00:26:15,436 Speaker 2: You know? So I told him, I said, Man, I said, 511 00:26:15,756 --> 00:26:18,556 Speaker 2: I'm telling you I got a real smash it for them. 512 00:26:18,916 --> 00:26:21,836 Speaker 2: He said, mine is a real smash hit. Man. I said, well, 513 00:26:21,836 --> 00:26:23,396 Speaker 2: I tell you what, Man, give me two days to 514 00:26:23,436 --> 00:26:26,556 Speaker 2: record my record. He said, okay, Man, if you think 515 00:26:26,556 --> 00:26:28,196 Speaker 2: you that I'm gonna give you two days, man, he said, 516 00:26:28,196 --> 00:26:30,276 Speaker 2: but I'm telling you you can't beat my record. Man. 517 00:26:30,516 --> 00:26:33,876 Speaker 2: I said, okay, cool, So two days. I had two 518 00:26:33,956 --> 00:26:36,076 Speaker 2: days to record the Way You Do Things You Do? 519 00:26:36,756 --> 00:26:40,436 Speaker 2: And I did, and uh so we had this contest. 520 00:26:40,676 --> 00:26:42,756 Speaker 2: We invited some people from off the streets. We invited 521 00:26:42,756 --> 00:26:45,236 Speaker 2: some people from around in the officers, lectaires and people 522 00:26:45,276 --> 00:26:48,516 Speaker 2: like that, and uh we played these two records. They 523 00:26:48,516 --> 00:26:52,556 Speaker 2: played his record first and everybody was jamming. Man, they oh, 524 00:26:52,636 --> 00:26:53,996 Speaker 2: this is a great record. But it was a kind 525 00:26:53,996 --> 00:26:56,196 Speaker 2: of slow move, but it was a great record. I 526 00:26:56,196 --> 00:26:59,236 Speaker 2: think it was uh dream come true or something. I 527 00:26:59,236 --> 00:27:01,716 Speaker 2: forgot the name of it. But anyway, I'm so I'm 528 00:27:01,756 --> 00:27:03,276 Speaker 2: sitting there and I'm worried now because we got this 529 00:27:03,276 --> 00:27:07,916 Speaker 2: one hundred dollars beat me and him, you know. And 530 00:27:08,036 --> 00:27:12,276 Speaker 2: uh so then they put on the way you do 531 00:27:12,316 --> 00:27:16,116 Speaker 2: the Things you do and it starts don dum to 532 00:27:16,116 --> 00:27:20,716 Speaker 2: don don to dunk. Everybody jumps up, starts dancing, and 533 00:27:21,956 --> 00:27:25,716 Speaker 2: his record got one vote, never was his, you know. 534 00:27:26,076 --> 00:27:28,036 Speaker 2: So I teach him about that all the time. He 535 00:27:28,116 --> 00:27:29,636 Speaker 2: had one vote and never was his. So but that 536 00:27:29,836 --> 00:27:34,756 Speaker 2: was what started the temptations to Roland, and I used 537 00:27:34,836 --> 00:27:38,476 Speaker 2: Eddie Kendrick's voice to sing the basic lead for that song. 538 00:27:38,556 --> 00:27:41,516 Speaker 2: So everybody at the company, all the writers and producers, 539 00:27:41,516 --> 00:27:44,436 Speaker 2: they jumped on the Temptations bandwagon and they started using 540 00:27:44,516 --> 00:27:47,356 Speaker 2: Eddie to sing everything. You know, Eddie was singing, Girl, 541 00:27:47,356 --> 00:27:49,956 Speaker 2: why you want to make Me blue? All your everybody 542 00:27:49,956 --> 00:27:52,836 Speaker 2: was using Eddie then, you know, because so I said, Okay, 543 00:27:52,916 --> 00:27:56,516 Speaker 2: that's cool with me because David and Paula in that group. 544 00:27:56,916 --> 00:28:00,516 Speaker 2: So I'm gonna write something sweet for David brotherend to 545 00:28:00,556 --> 00:28:03,516 Speaker 2: sing because David had a voice she had that he 546 00:28:03,676 --> 00:28:05,516 Speaker 2: was like him him. I used to tell him in 547 00:28:05,556 --> 00:28:07,916 Speaker 2: Teddy Pendergrad, y'all scared of chicks into loving you because 548 00:28:09,196 --> 00:28:11,396 Speaker 2: well that voice like that. But they were really singing 549 00:28:11,636 --> 00:28:15,796 Speaker 2: and they could really sing, you know. So I knew 550 00:28:15,836 --> 00:28:17,516 Speaker 2: that David was there, and I said, I'm gonna write 551 00:28:17,516 --> 00:28:20,716 Speaker 2: something sweet for him to sing to the girls. And 552 00:28:20,756 --> 00:28:25,916 Speaker 2: so I wrote My Girl for David to sing to 553 00:28:25,996 --> 00:28:31,156 Speaker 2: the girls. I had no idea that My Girl was 554 00:28:31,196 --> 00:28:35,196 Speaker 2: gonna do well. It has done. Man. My Girl for 555 00:28:35,236 --> 00:28:38,196 Speaker 2: me as a songwriter has become like my international anthem 556 00:28:38,596 --> 00:28:42,996 Speaker 2: or something. We go. We're preparing an overseas jump now 557 00:28:43,436 --> 00:28:46,396 Speaker 2: for June, but we go to places in Europe and 558 00:28:46,956 --> 00:28:48,596 Speaker 2: all places where a lot of places they don't even 559 00:28:48,596 --> 00:28:51,476 Speaker 2: speak English, man, And sixty percent of the people in 560 00:28:51,476 --> 00:28:55,236 Speaker 2: that audience don't even speak English. Okay, but we play 561 00:28:55,316 --> 00:28:58,676 Speaker 2: my Girl in our live concerts, and as soon as 562 00:28:58,676 --> 00:29:01,836 Speaker 2: they hear boom boom boom, boom, boom boom, they know 563 00:29:01,876 --> 00:29:04,916 Speaker 2: what's gonna happen. They sing it verbatim. They don't even 564 00:29:04,916 --> 00:29:08,156 Speaker 2: speak English and they sing it verbatim. So now I 565 00:29:08,236 --> 00:29:10,716 Speaker 2: knew My Girl was a good song, I thought, But 566 00:29:10,796 --> 00:29:13,636 Speaker 2: I had no idea there was gonna be what it is, 567 00:29:14,276 --> 00:29:19,476 Speaker 2: you know. And so anyway I recorded My Girl with 568 00:29:19,676 --> 00:29:25,076 Speaker 2: David and anybody the band ways David, but but that, 569 00:29:25,116 --> 00:29:28,236 Speaker 2: but that's what That's how Barry and I started off 570 00:29:28,556 --> 00:29:33,556 Speaker 2: competing for the Temptations, you know, and I beat it. 571 00:29:33,596 --> 00:29:34,876 Speaker 1: Is it true? The way you do the things you 572 00:29:34,916 --> 00:29:37,836 Speaker 1: do was a bit influenced by you because you were 573 00:29:37,836 --> 00:29:39,556 Speaker 1: listening to a lot of Curtis Mainfield at the time 574 00:29:39,556 --> 00:29:42,436 Speaker 1: and impressions. Is that accurate? 575 00:29:42,516 --> 00:29:45,036 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure it was, man, because Curtis and maybe 576 00:29:45,156 --> 00:29:48,116 Speaker 2: Curtis and in the Impressions, Man, they had some of 577 00:29:48,116 --> 00:29:51,196 Speaker 2: the tightest harmony that you ever wanted to hear, you know, 578 00:29:51,796 --> 00:29:53,796 Speaker 2: and uh yeah, they had those songs like that, like 579 00:29:53,876 --> 00:29:55,676 Speaker 2: It's all right and all those songs like that. Yeah, 580 00:29:55,916 --> 00:29:59,396 Speaker 2: I'm sure that that was that was influential because I 581 00:29:59,476 --> 00:30:02,076 Speaker 2: knew the Temptations had that kind of sound, they had 582 00:30:02,076 --> 00:30:04,796 Speaker 2: that kind of harmony they you know, and never once 583 00:30:05,156 --> 00:30:07,796 Speaker 2: have I ever when I was recording the Temptations made 584 00:30:07,876 --> 00:30:10,316 Speaker 2: up a background vocal for them. I'm teaching the lead 585 00:30:10,476 --> 00:30:12,916 Speaker 2: whatever I want to lead to learn and all, and 586 00:30:12,956 --> 00:30:14,876 Speaker 2: They're over in the corner making a background as I'm 587 00:30:15,036 --> 00:30:19,476 Speaker 2: showing the lead what he's doing, you know, And there 588 00:30:19,516 --> 00:30:21,516 Speaker 2: are parts of my girl. Man, they're just as popular 589 00:30:21,516 --> 00:30:23,676 Speaker 2: as a leader. Hey, hey, hey, and all this stuff 590 00:30:23,676 --> 00:30:25,756 Speaker 2: like that. They So Temptation made up all that stuff, 591 00:30:25,796 --> 00:30:28,356 Speaker 2: you know, talking about micro they made up all that. 592 00:30:28,956 --> 00:30:32,036 Speaker 1: So was that true of all artists you were working with, 593 00:30:32,076 --> 00:30:34,236 Speaker 1: that you gave them some sort of some level of 594 00:30:34,396 --> 00:30:37,076 Speaker 1: artistic freedom too, or was that he was it case 595 00:30:37,116 --> 00:30:37,636 Speaker 1: by case? 596 00:30:37,876 --> 00:30:40,556 Speaker 2: It was case by case, man, Okay, you knew with them, 597 00:30:40,596 --> 00:30:42,836 Speaker 2: you could, Yeah, knew with them, Michael, they just had 598 00:30:43,236 --> 00:30:45,116 Speaker 2: leeway to do whatever it was because they were gonna 599 00:30:45,116 --> 00:30:49,316 Speaker 2: come up with some great you know. So all the 600 00:30:49,356 --> 00:30:51,356 Speaker 2: songs I have recorded on them. I never made up 601 00:30:51,356 --> 00:30:53,076 Speaker 2: a background over that. They just made up all their 602 00:30:53,116 --> 00:30:55,156 Speaker 2: own background except for the way you do things you do, 603 00:30:55,196 --> 00:30:57,276 Speaker 2: which I had them all singing it together. You know. 604 00:30:58,316 --> 00:31:00,076 Speaker 1: After this flast break, will be back with the rest 605 00:31:00,116 --> 00:31:07,036 Speaker 1: of my conversation with Smokey Robinson. How did you learn 606 00:31:07,076 --> 00:31:08,596 Speaker 1: to be a producer? 607 00:31:08,836 --> 00:31:15,716 Speaker 2: Well, you know, surprisingly enough, Barry allowed me. He kind 608 00:31:15,716 --> 00:31:18,556 Speaker 2: of taught me that as Motown was just the beginning, 609 00:31:19,276 --> 00:31:22,596 Speaker 2: and he allowed me to go in and produce records 610 00:31:22,636 --> 00:31:24,876 Speaker 2: on the Miracles on Me, just the Miracles on Me 611 00:31:24,916 --> 00:31:27,636 Speaker 2: at first, but then he saw I could do it, 612 00:31:27,636 --> 00:31:29,716 Speaker 2: so he started to assign people to me. Man, when 613 00:31:29,796 --> 00:31:32,676 Speaker 2: Tim came, he assigned me to do an album on them, 614 00:31:32,716 --> 00:31:36,916 Speaker 2: and Mary Wells and Marvin Gaye. And when they came, 615 00:31:36,996 --> 00:31:38,636 Speaker 2: you know, he say, man, I want you to write 616 00:31:38,636 --> 00:31:41,316 Speaker 2: some stuff for them. So I did, and that's how 617 00:31:41,316 --> 00:31:44,076 Speaker 2: I started to write for everyone. But he allowed me 618 00:31:44,236 --> 00:31:48,716 Speaker 2: to produce the records. Eventually, thanked god, Stevie started producing 619 00:31:48,756 --> 00:31:51,316 Speaker 2: it and Marvin started producing their own stuff, thank god. 620 00:31:51,876 --> 00:31:53,636 Speaker 2: But you know, I was the first artist that was 621 00:31:53,676 --> 00:31:54,756 Speaker 2: allowed to do that. 622 00:31:54,836 --> 00:31:57,356 Speaker 1: Now, I mean thank God, but also thank God you 623 00:31:57,356 --> 00:32:01,156 Speaker 1: were there too, because I mean, I mean, you gave 624 00:32:01,436 --> 00:32:04,356 Speaker 1: Marvin some incredible songs and some incredible hits. 625 00:32:04,396 --> 00:32:06,596 Speaker 2: You know, Marvin was my brother. 626 00:32:06,636 --> 00:32:06,796 Speaker 1: Man. 627 00:32:06,836 --> 00:32:10,396 Speaker 2: Marvin was one of the best singers I think ever 628 00:32:10,556 --> 00:32:13,916 Speaker 2: in life. You know, Marvin was a guy. Uh, Marvin 629 00:32:13,916 --> 00:32:16,756 Speaker 2: IM a very very very close man. You know. Marvin 630 00:32:16,796 --> 00:32:20,156 Speaker 2: lived righting around the corner from me. Uh and uh 631 00:32:20,196 --> 00:32:22,676 Speaker 2: we were together almost every day of our lives doing something, 632 00:32:23,116 --> 00:32:26,596 Speaker 2: you know, playing some basketball or some golf or you know, 633 00:32:26,716 --> 00:32:29,956 Speaker 2: just hanging out. We were together all the time. So 634 00:32:30,276 --> 00:32:33,076 Speaker 2: Marvin was uh, he was a great singer. 635 00:32:33,116 --> 00:32:33,316 Speaker 1: Man. 636 00:32:33,716 --> 00:32:36,916 Speaker 2: When he first came to Motown, he didn't want to 637 00:32:36,916 --> 00:32:40,236 Speaker 2: be Marvin Gay. He wanted to be Na King Cole 638 00:32:41,236 --> 00:32:43,756 Speaker 2: Frank Sinatra. That's how he came. He wanted to sing 639 00:32:43,796 --> 00:32:48,116 Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. And uh, how we became aware 640 00:32:48,156 --> 00:32:50,156 Speaker 2: of him is that. Uh do you do you know 641 00:32:50,156 --> 00:32:50,956 Speaker 2: who Harvey Few. 642 00:32:51,156 --> 00:32:53,356 Speaker 1: Was the Moon Moon Go Moon Gloves Mooos. 643 00:32:53,476 --> 00:32:56,716 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, uh, Man, I had known Harvey and idlyized 644 00:32:56,756 --> 00:32:58,356 Speaker 2: him since I was a kid growing up, cause we 645 00:32:58,636 --> 00:33:01,236 Speaker 2: in the hood. When Moonlose came up with a recordman, 646 00:33:01,916 --> 00:33:04,276 Speaker 2: you know, everybody got the Mooos record band, and the 647 00:33:04,316 --> 00:33:07,236 Speaker 2: Moonos always had those great backgrounds where if you sing 648 00:33:07,316 --> 00:33:09,116 Speaker 2: in a group, you learned the background before you've learned 649 00:33:09,196 --> 00:33:11,596 Speaker 2: the lead. Because they had those great back cool and 650 00:33:11,676 --> 00:33:18,036 Speaker 2: all that. But eventually Harvey came over to Motown, Man 651 00:33:18,116 --> 00:33:22,956 Speaker 2: and he he married one of Barry's sisters, Gwynn, and 652 00:33:23,116 --> 00:33:25,156 Speaker 2: he came over to Motown and he had you know, 653 00:33:25,196 --> 00:33:27,236 Speaker 2: he had hired a new singer for the moon Glows 654 00:33:27,236 --> 00:33:30,956 Speaker 2: because one of his guys had retired, and he hired 655 00:33:30,956 --> 00:33:34,676 Speaker 2: Marvin Gay. Marmon Gay was from Washington, d C. So 656 00:33:35,556 --> 00:33:37,516 Speaker 2: Harvey met him in d C. So he hired him 657 00:33:37,516 --> 00:33:40,236 Speaker 2: to take the place of the guy who had left. 658 00:33:40,716 --> 00:33:42,516 Speaker 2: And so we were having a Christmas party. We had 659 00:33:42,556 --> 00:33:47,276 Speaker 2: them every year at Christmas, and all the artists came, 660 00:33:47,716 --> 00:33:49,676 Speaker 2: everybody was there. You made sure you weren't on the 661 00:33:49,756 --> 00:33:51,076 Speaker 2: road at that time so you can come to the 662 00:33:51,156 --> 00:33:55,516 Speaker 2: Christmas party because they were great. And so Harvey bought 663 00:33:55,516 --> 00:33:59,036 Speaker 2: Marvin to the Christmas party and there's a we had 664 00:33:59,076 --> 00:34:01,756 Speaker 2: him in the Hissfield building and down in the studio. 665 00:34:02,196 --> 00:34:04,196 Speaker 2: People were all over the building, but down there everybody 666 00:34:04,196 --> 00:34:06,316 Speaker 2: was hanging out, mostly down in the studio where the 667 00:34:06,316 --> 00:34:08,116 Speaker 2: piano and the instruments and all that stuff like that. 668 00:34:08,116 --> 00:34:10,516 Speaker 2: Had set up. So Marvin goes over to the piano 669 00:34:10,956 --> 00:34:12,996 Speaker 2: and he sits down and the party's going on. He 670 00:34:13,036 --> 00:34:16,156 Speaker 2: starts to sing the Christmas song chest Nuts Roasty, and 671 00:34:16,156 --> 00:34:18,996 Speaker 2: everybody starts listening to him and starts going over and 672 00:34:19,116 --> 00:34:22,236 Speaker 2: surrounding the piano and he's playing and singing. He he 673 00:34:22,276 --> 00:34:26,956 Speaker 2: could really sing, so uh we we we signed him 674 00:34:27,036 --> 00:34:31,116 Speaker 2: up and he wanted to sing songs like that. His 675 00:34:31,116 --> 00:34:33,396 Speaker 2: first song that we released on him was mister Sandman, 676 00:34:34,276 --> 00:34:36,876 Speaker 2: Mister Samman, bring Me a Dream, because he wanted to 677 00:34:36,876 --> 00:34:41,436 Speaker 2: sing that kind of stuff. Didn't do anything. Uh eventually, uh. 678 00:34:41,356 --> 00:34:42,996 Speaker 1: We did think it straight like that too, Like it 679 00:34:43,036 --> 00:34:46,836 Speaker 1: wasn't like, uh, it didn't sound like uh. 680 00:34:46,556 --> 00:34:48,956 Speaker 2: It sounded like Marvin Gay singing mister sam Man. Man, 681 00:34:49,516 --> 00:34:51,636 Speaker 2: that's what it sounded like. Marmon Gakeys sing the phone 682 00:34:51,636 --> 00:34:53,796 Speaker 2: Book and you know what I'm saying, that's what it 683 00:34:53,876 --> 00:34:57,756 Speaker 2: sounded like. So anyway, uh, we our and our director 684 00:34:57,796 --> 00:34:59,556 Speaker 2: at the at the time, my first and our director 685 00:34:59,596 --> 00:35:01,836 Speaker 2: ever that very hired was a guy named Mickey Stevenson. 686 00:35:02,476 --> 00:35:05,516 Speaker 2: And Mickey was also a songwriter and a producer, and 687 00:35:06,636 --> 00:35:09,436 Speaker 2: so he got together with Marvin and say, man, if 688 00:35:09,476 --> 00:35:11,716 Speaker 2: you want to hit, we gotta do some different kind 689 00:35:11,716 --> 00:35:14,716 Speaker 2: of stuff. So he and Marvin wrote this song called 690 00:35:14,716 --> 00:35:18,676 Speaker 2: Stubborn cint of Fellow and recorded it. And that was 691 00:35:18,676 --> 00:35:24,396 Speaker 2: when Marvin started to be Marvin Gaye and the rest. 692 00:35:24,476 --> 00:35:25,516 Speaker 1: You know. 693 00:35:25,676 --> 00:35:27,996 Speaker 2: Like I said, the Duke could sing anything. I work 694 00:35:28,076 --> 00:35:32,356 Speaker 2: with Marvin Man and Marvel was always late for everything. 695 00:35:32,716 --> 00:35:35,836 Speaker 2: Marvel was late for everything you talking about cpee time. 696 00:35:36,396 --> 00:35:40,356 Speaker 2: Marvin was late for everything, man. So I got to 697 00:35:40,396 --> 00:35:42,836 Speaker 2: the point where Marvin Man, so I was gonna record him. 698 00:35:43,316 --> 00:35:45,436 Speaker 2: Uh and session's gonna start at eight o'clock in the 699 00:35:45,436 --> 00:35:48,236 Speaker 2: evening out till Marven it's gonna start at six thirty. 700 00:35:48,396 --> 00:35:50,996 Speaker 2: You know, he would still be late. He would he 701 00:35:50,996 --> 00:35:54,636 Speaker 2: wouldn't get to nine anyway, small car, tell you man 702 00:35:54,796 --> 00:35:56,756 Speaker 2: a so and so happened. I said, okay, man, cool, 703 00:35:56,796 --> 00:35:59,556 Speaker 2: you know, but I knew that when he got there 704 00:35:59,596 --> 00:36:02,676 Speaker 2: and I showed him my song. I used to tell 705 00:36:02,756 --> 00:36:07,036 Speaker 2: him all the time. He marvenized my songs because he 706 00:36:07,196 --> 00:36:10,076 Speaker 2: do stuff vocally that I hadn't even thought of while 707 00:36:10,076 --> 00:36:12,116 Speaker 2: I was writing it. You know, he just come in 708 00:36:12,156 --> 00:36:17,916 Speaker 2: and just kill you know, marvinized my story. I didn't 709 00:36:17,916 --> 00:36:21,996 Speaker 2: care if he was late, you know, but he could 710 00:36:22,076 --> 00:36:25,756 Speaker 2: sing anything, man, one of the greatest voices of our time. 711 00:36:26,396 --> 00:36:28,876 Speaker 1: Did you did you have a relationship with Tammy Terrell too? 712 00:36:28,956 --> 00:36:31,596 Speaker 2: Yes, had a relationship with everybody there, man, because we 713 00:36:31,596 --> 00:36:34,196 Speaker 2: all had a relationship with each other. Tam Turell is 714 00:36:34,236 --> 00:36:36,516 Speaker 2: my baby, man. She was a sweetie pie. She was 715 00:36:36,956 --> 00:36:42,036 Speaker 2: a wonderful fun person. Tammy tell was you talk about fun. 716 00:36:42,116 --> 00:36:44,716 Speaker 2: She was just a fun woman. She just when she 717 00:36:44,796 --> 00:36:47,156 Speaker 2: when she came in, she brightened up the room, you 718 00:36:47,236 --> 00:36:48,956 Speaker 2: know what I mean. She was just a fun person. 719 00:36:49,956 --> 00:36:53,036 Speaker 2: She unfortunately had a brain tumor at a young age. 720 00:36:53,076 --> 00:36:58,356 Speaker 2: And you know, but yeah, Temmy, we all hung over. 721 00:36:58,516 --> 00:37:00,916 Speaker 2: Like I said, everybody knew each other. Man, her and 722 00:37:00,956 --> 00:37:04,636 Speaker 2: Marvin together, well, Marvin had his with all the girls 723 00:37:04,676 --> 00:37:10,796 Speaker 2: at Motown, basically Kim Weston, Diana Ross, you know, Tam Dbrell, 724 00:37:12,356 --> 00:37:13,196 Speaker 2: Valerie Simpson. 725 00:37:14,596 --> 00:37:16,196 Speaker 1: I know you were like you say, really you were 726 00:37:16,196 --> 00:37:18,476 Speaker 1: type with everyone. But you and Marvin were really tight 727 00:37:18,516 --> 00:37:23,756 Speaker 1: as well, live near each other. When Tammy passed that, 728 00:37:24,156 --> 00:37:26,636 Speaker 1: there's stories of that really affected him. 729 00:37:26,956 --> 00:37:30,356 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, shook him up for a long time. Shook 730 00:37:30,396 --> 00:37:32,836 Speaker 2: him for a long time. He didn't even want to 731 00:37:32,836 --> 00:37:34,516 Speaker 2: sing with any of the other girls for a while 732 00:37:34,956 --> 00:37:37,876 Speaker 2: because he thought he was bad luck? Why are you 733 00:37:37,876 --> 00:37:38,276 Speaker 2: bad luck? 734 00:37:38,316 --> 00:37:38,396 Speaker 1: Man? 735 00:37:38,436 --> 00:37:40,476 Speaker 2: She had a brain to him. He didn't give it 736 00:37:40,476 --> 00:37:43,876 Speaker 2: to her. You had nothing to do with that, you know. 737 00:37:44,316 --> 00:37:46,036 Speaker 2: But he was he was, He was shook up for 738 00:37:46,036 --> 00:37:48,396 Speaker 2: a long time. They were very close. 739 00:37:48,956 --> 00:37:53,156 Speaker 1: And how did you guys as friends as a label, 740 00:37:53,156 --> 00:37:56,836 Speaker 1: how did you guys handle, for instance, Marvin being in 741 00:37:58,356 --> 00:38:00,556 Speaker 1: a funk like that, you know, because I'm sure you 742 00:38:00,556 --> 00:38:03,036 Speaker 1: want to help him out, and I mean, I'm sure 743 00:38:03,076 --> 00:38:07,196 Speaker 1: you want him also to you know, use his gift. 744 00:38:07,676 --> 00:38:12,116 Speaker 2: Well, he wasn't in a funk to the point whereas 745 00:38:12,116 --> 00:38:14,756 Speaker 2: like he stopped recording for months at a time or so, 746 00:38:14,836 --> 00:38:19,276 Speaker 2: he didn't do that just personally, you know, he was 747 00:38:19,276 --> 00:38:23,916 Speaker 2: shook up. He just you see, I feel that way 748 00:38:24,716 --> 00:38:28,036 Speaker 2: about a lot of them, man, because when you're young, 749 00:38:28,116 --> 00:38:29,996 Speaker 2: you're a kid like that, and we were all kids together, 750 00:38:30,076 --> 00:38:33,676 Speaker 2: going up there together. The last thing you ever expect 751 00:38:34,196 --> 00:38:37,276 Speaker 2: is to see one of them dead, you know, think 752 00:38:37,476 --> 00:38:40,356 Speaker 2: you aren't even thinking about death or anything like that. 753 00:38:41,036 --> 00:38:43,716 Speaker 2: And I buried so many of them men, and it 754 00:38:43,916 --> 00:38:50,036 Speaker 2: just it's a shake up, you know, Yeah, it's a 755 00:38:50,036 --> 00:38:52,876 Speaker 2: shake up. Like I said, you know, I want to 756 00:38:52,876 --> 00:38:55,836 Speaker 2: read the past. Man. You know, she was my longest friend. 757 00:38:57,316 --> 00:39:01,196 Speaker 2: All the kids in our neighborhood, everybody was dead except 758 00:39:01,196 --> 00:39:04,276 Speaker 2: for Diana. So now Diana, it's my longest friend. 759 00:39:04,796 --> 00:39:06,116 Speaker 1: And you guys still get in touch. 760 00:39:06,156 --> 00:39:08,836 Speaker 2: I'm sure, right, yeah, you know, she's a I brought 761 00:39:08,876 --> 00:39:13,116 Speaker 2: her to Motown. She was my pet project that I 762 00:39:13,156 --> 00:39:16,116 Speaker 2: bought the Motown at first, you know, because she lived 763 00:39:16,156 --> 00:39:18,316 Speaker 2: right down the street. They moved to a place called 764 00:39:18,356 --> 00:39:22,036 Speaker 2: the Brewster of Projects after we started Motown, and she 765 00:39:22,116 --> 00:39:24,396 Speaker 2: called me, she said, smoke sh I got this group, 766 00:39:24,396 --> 00:39:26,876 Speaker 2: and I want you to hear us. Man, the Primates, 767 00:39:27,556 --> 00:39:31,156 Speaker 2: because the Temptations were the Primes. So the Primates, I 768 00:39:31,196 --> 00:39:34,036 Speaker 2: want you to hear us because we could sing. So 769 00:39:34,116 --> 00:39:36,756 Speaker 2: I said, come on auditioning. So I auditioned them and 770 00:39:36,796 --> 00:39:40,076 Speaker 2: Barry wouldn't let me sign them because they were still 771 00:39:40,076 --> 00:39:42,316 Speaker 2: in school. They were still in high school. They were 772 00:39:42,316 --> 00:39:44,396 Speaker 2: about to graduate, but they were still in high school. 773 00:39:44,756 --> 00:39:46,316 Speaker 2: And he said, man, he said, you know, we already 774 00:39:46,316 --> 00:39:48,676 Speaker 2: got Stevie. And when Stevie travels, he got to have 775 00:39:48,756 --> 00:39:51,316 Speaker 2: tutors and on entourage and all the people because he 776 00:39:51,356 --> 00:39:53,636 Speaker 2: have to do his homework on the road. And so 777 00:39:53,756 --> 00:39:55,636 Speaker 2: I don't want to sign another person. Like that or 778 00:39:55,636 --> 00:39:58,116 Speaker 2: another group. So I had to wait till they graduated 779 00:39:58,116 --> 00:40:01,116 Speaker 2: from high school to sign them. And they got signed 780 00:40:01,116 --> 00:40:06,236 Speaker 2: and they became Dying Rolls and the Supremes. 781 00:40:08,276 --> 00:40:11,076 Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. Man, all you guys are so young. 782 00:40:11,156 --> 00:40:11,276 Speaker 3: You know. 783 00:40:11,516 --> 00:40:14,236 Speaker 1: You mentioned Stevie, right, Stevie's there as young as can be. 784 00:40:14,516 --> 00:40:18,676 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think about that now. I wasn't 785 00:40:18,676 --> 00:40:21,396 Speaker 2: thinking about that then, but I think about it now. 786 00:40:21,476 --> 00:40:25,756 Speaker 2: We were kids, man, we were just kids. My first marriage, man, 787 00:40:25,796 --> 00:40:28,116 Speaker 2: I got married when I was nineteen years old to 788 00:40:28,196 --> 00:40:29,996 Speaker 2: the girl who's in our group, Claudette, you know. And 789 00:40:30,116 --> 00:40:32,516 Speaker 2: she had been my girlfriend since I was fourteen, since 790 00:40:32,516 --> 00:40:34,756 Speaker 2: she got into group. You know. But when I was 791 00:40:34,876 --> 00:40:39,356 Speaker 2: nineteen and I thought I was a man. I thought 792 00:40:39,396 --> 00:40:42,436 Speaker 2: I was a man. Very started Motown. We were going there. 793 00:40:42,436 --> 00:40:44,236 Speaker 2: I was making five dollars a week. I was, you know, 794 00:40:44,276 --> 00:40:47,516 Speaker 2: working at Motown, making five hours a week. You know, 795 00:40:48,276 --> 00:40:50,876 Speaker 2: I thought I was a man. Man, And I look 796 00:40:50,916 --> 00:40:54,516 Speaker 2: back on that. That's funny. There's no way that one 797 00:40:54,556 --> 00:40:55,876 Speaker 2: of my kids had come to me when they were 798 00:40:55,956 --> 00:40:58,436 Speaker 2: nineteen and said, hey, Dad, I want to get married. 799 00:40:58,476 --> 00:41:01,756 Speaker 2: And I was said, okay, all right, this is a 800 00:41:01,756 --> 00:41:04,276 Speaker 2: good idea. Yeah, you know what I mean, man, But 801 00:41:04,516 --> 00:41:06,716 Speaker 2: heck I did it. But I look back. We were 802 00:41:06,716 --> 00:41:11,636 Speaker 2: all kids, man, We were just kids. But it was 803 00:41:11,636 --> 00:41:13,996 Speaker 2: a great place to be because it was all energy. 804 00:41:14,036 --> 00:41:16,876 Speaker 2: And like I said, we were kids and we were young, 805 00:41:16,956 --> 00:41:18,036 Speaker 2: and we all hung out together. 806 00:41:18,116 --> 00:41:21,276 Speaker 1: And you know, would would you guys listen to music together? 807 00:41:21,356 --> 00:41:23,916 Speaker 1: Like if you'd go to Aretha's house, would you record? 808 00:41:24,396 --> 00:41:28,716 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, we used to have talent shows before when 809 00:41:28,756 --> 00:41:31,076 Speaker 2: we were kids. I mean before I met Barry, and 810 00:41:31,076 --> 00:41:33,636 Speaker 2: I'm talking about when we were ten and eleven and 811 00:41:33,956 --> 00:41:37,436 Speaker 2: stuff like that. We had talent shows on Areta's back porch, 812 00:41:38,036 --> 00:41:41,276 Speaker 2: you know, and every time Aretha or Irma would win. 813 00:41:43,356 --> 00:41:48,076 Speaker 2: Irma was Aretha's sister, oldest sister. And but we used 814 00:41:48,116 --> 00:41:49,916 Speaker 2: to have talent shows and stuff like that. Man on 815 00:41:50,316 --> 00:41:50,956 Speaker 2: her back porch. 816 00:41:51,356 --> 00:41:56,276 Speaker 1: Unbelievable. Unbelievable because Barry was a little older than you guys. 817 00:41:56,476 --> 00:41:58,556 Speaker 2: Yeah, Arry's actually ten years older than me. 818 00:41:58,756 --> 00:42:01,756 Speaker 1: So were you the conduit for like the Deep the 819 00:42:01,796 --> 00:42:05,116 Speaker 1: Temptations coming to try out from Motown? And like you said, 820 00:42:05,116 --> 00:42:07,596 Speaker 1: you knew Diana from the neighborhood, like you were kind 821 00:42:07,596 --> 00:42:10,636 Speaker 1: of were the person who knew all the talent in 822 00:42:10,676 --> 00:42:13,476 Speaker 1: the neighborhood. Basically, Yeah, it seems to me. And so 823 00:42:13,876 --> 00:42:17,356 Speaker 1: you you know, Barry set up this great structure for 824 00:42:17,396 --> 00:42:19,116 Speaker 1: you guys to thrive in and to be this tutor, 825 00:42:19,116 --> 00:42:22,356 Speaker 1: but it seems like you were maybe maybe like the 826 00:42:22,356 --> 00:42:24,236 Speaker 1: A and R without being officially the an R. 827 00:42:24,556 --> 00:42:27,356 Speaker 2: You know, well I did. I brought a few people in, man. 828 00:42:27,596 --> 00:42:29,756 Speaker 2: I brought a few people, and even after we got started. Man, 829 00:42:30,036 --> 00:42:32,276 Speaker 2: you know Gladys Knight and people like that, I brought 830 00:42:32,316 --> 00:42:34,796 Speaker 2: them in too, because Gladys had been my friends since 831 00:42:34,836 --> 00:42:37,316 Speaker 2: I was eighteen years old on the road, you know, 832 00:42:37,556 --> 00:42:40,036 Speaker 2: and she was with the Pips and we were out 833 00:42:40,036 --> 00:42:42,156 Speaker 2: there traveling on a road doing those one nighters and 834 00:42:42,156 --> 00:42:44,436 Speaker 2: stuff together and stuff. So I knew them. And when 835 00:42:44,436 --> 00:42:47,356 Speaker 2: they wanted to leave their current record company, I brought 836 00:42:47,356 --> 00:42:52,436 Speaker 2: them in the Motown Chuck Jackson, you know, Ashraton Simpson, 837 00:42:52,676 --> 00:42:56,996 Speaker 2: you know, and like I said, Diana Ross and I 838 00:42:57,036 --> 00:42:59,316 Speaker 2: didn't bring the Temptations, but I knew them before they 839 00:42:59,876 --> 00:43:03,676 Speaker 2: before they came over to audition. But yeah, yeah, a 840 00:43:03,676 --> 00:43:06,476 Speaker 2: lot of people, man. And like I said, Ron White 841 00:43:06,476 --> 00:43:09,916 Speaker 2: who was in the Miracles, brought Stevie also. 842 00:43:09,956 --> 00:43:13,876 Speaker 1: He man, Yeah, you mentioned you have some tour dates 843 00:43:13,916 --> 00:43:17,356 Speaker 1: coming up in the spring. Yes, you have a Vegas residency. Yes, 844 00:43:17,636 --> 00:43:21,076 Speaker 1: how do you prepare for tour now versus then? You 845 00:43:21,116 --> 00:43:22,716 Speaker 1: know when you're on the road the gladys Knight and. 846 00:43:24,156 --> 00:43:26,716 Speaker 2: Well, well back then, basically, you know, like I said, 847 00:43:26,716 --> 00:43:28,916 Speaker 2: we were kids, man, So you know, you just get 848 00:43:28,956 --> 00:43:31,756 Speaker 2: in the car and there we go. We had caravans. 849 00:43:31,796 --> 00:43:34,036 Speaker 2: We didn't one night we were traveling on a tour bus 850 00:43:34,076 --> 00:43:37,236 Speaker 2: or anything like that. Everybody basically had their own individual cars. 851 00:43:37,236 --> 00:43:41,356 Speaker 2: They mean, seven cars going down a howay behind each other, 852 00:43:41,756 --> 00:43:43,436 Speaker 2: that's what That's what was going to go. We were 853 00:43:43,436 --> 00:43:48,556 Speaker 2: doing those tours. But I think that, uh, you know, 854 00:43:49,476 --> 00:43:54,916 Speaker 2: you're traveling around like that, and I just can't find 855 00:43:54,956 --> 00:44:02,636 Speaker 2: anything that gives me the same thing. I can't find. 856 00:44:02,716 --> 00:44:06,476 Speaker 2: I've tried, man, I tried retirement one time. When very 857 00:44:06,476 --> 00:44:10,756 Speaker 2: first moved Motown from Detroit to Last Angeles, I came 858 00:44:10,756 --> 00:44:13,796 Speaker 2: out to Los Angeles kicking and screaming because I didn't 859 00:44:13,796 --> 00:44:15,876 Speaker 2: think we should leave Detroit. I told Barry, Man, you know, 860 00:44:15,916 --> 00:44:18,396 Speaker 2: this is our home, it is our roots. We started here, 861 00:44:18,476 --> 00:44:21,836 Speaker 2: and you know, and we all grew up here, and 862 00:44:22,316 --> 00:44:25,156 Speaker 2: you know, they even called Detroit Motown. Now you know, 863 00:44:25,316 --> 00:44:27,436 Speaker 2: So why are you moving to LA? He said, because 864 00:44:27,636 --> 00:44:31,276 Speaker 2: LA is the entertainment capital of the world right now, 865 00:44:31,316 --> 00:44:33,556 Speaker 2: which it was said. We're gonna go out there. We're 866 00:44:33,556 --> 00:44:36,596 Speaker 2: gonna make some movies, do some TV specials. We're still 867 00:44:36,596 --> 00:44:38,956 Speaker 2: gonna be a record company. I'm gonna leave a skeleton 868 00:44:39,196 --> 00:44:42,316 Speaker 2: record thing here in Detroit, but our basic operation is 869 00:44:42,316 --> 00:44:45,756 Speaker 2: gonna be in LA. But we can do entertainment things. 870 00:44:45,796 --> 00:44:49,356 Speaker 2: We're gonna become an entertainment company, ladies things, the Blues 871 00:44:49,396 --> 00:44:53,636 Speaker 2: and you know, the Temptations, Diarroh specials and stuff like that. 872 00:44:53,956 --> 00:44:55,516 Speaker 2: So we got into all that stuff, but I came 873 00:44:55,516 --> 00:44:57,596 Speaker 2: out kicking the streaming man because I did not want 874 00:44:57,636 --> 00:45:01,516 Speaker 2: to move to Los Angeles from Detroit. Eventually I was. 875 00:45:01,596 --> 00:45:04,316 Speaker 2: I was glad that I did. But when I moved 876 00:45:04,316 --> 00:45:08,236 Speaker 2: out to Los Angeles, I retired from the Miracles, and 877 00:45:08,396 --> 00:45:11,316 Speaker 2: I I told him before I was gonna retire. My 878 00:45:11,956 --> 00:45:14,836 Speaker 2: first wife, Claudee, and I have been trying to have 879 00:45:14,876 --> 00:45:18,636 Speaker 2: a baby, and when my first son was born, finally 880 00:45:21,716 --> 00:45:23,676 Speaker 2: I wanted to spend time with him man And two 881 00:45:23,716 --> 00:45:25,516 Speaker 2: years after he was bore, my daughter was born. So 882 00:45:25,556 --> 00:45:27,636 Speaker 2: I wanted to spend time with my kids. Man and 883 00:45:27,636 --> 00:45:29,716 Speaker 2: the miracles, and I had done everything that the group 884 00:45:29,756 --> 00:45:33,036 Speaker 2: could possibly do two or three times. We've been all 885 00:45:33,076 --> 00:45:36,036 Speaker 2: over the world, you know, and I was tired, man. 886 00:45:37,156 --> 00:45:40,356 Speaker 2: So I told them, I said I'm gonna retire. They 887 00:45:40,436 --> 00:45:44,076 Speaker 2: laughed at me and oh yeah, yeah, okay, cool man, 888 00:45:44,076 --> 00:45:49,556 Speaker 2: you're gonna retire. That's good man. So then we were 889 00:45:49,596 --> 00:45:53,916 Speaker 2: having a Christmas party. Man. And this was in nineteen 890 00:45:54,076 --> 00:45:57,836 Speaker 2: sixty seven. We're having this Christmas party and Stevie comes 891 00:45:57,836 --> 00:46:01,076 Speaker 2: in and he comes to me. He says, smoke, he said, Man, 892 00:46:01,116 --> 00:46:04,196 Speaker 2: I I recorded this musical track, man, he said. It's 893 00:46:04,196 --> 00:46:05,756 Speaker 2: the bomb. He said, but I can't think of a 894 00:46:05,796 --> 00:46:07,356 Speaker 2: song to go with this. Man. I want you to 895 00:46:07,396 --> 00:46:09,676 Speaker 2: listen and see what you can come up with. So 896 00:46:09,716 --> 00:46:11,076 Speaker 2: I said, okay, man, I give it to me. So 897 00:46:11,076 --> 00:46:13,196 Speaker 2: he gave it to me. I took it home. I 898 00:46:13,316 --> 00:46:17,516 Speaker 2: put your tape on and it started off bom bom bomp. 899 00:46:18,116 --> 00:46:19,356 Speaker 2: Duh dun dun dun dunt. 900 00:46:20,236 --> 00:46:20,796 Speaker 1: So I heard that. 901 00:46:20,876 --> 00:46:24,156 Speaker 2: I said, Man, that's ringing Brothers. That's bombing Bailey right there. 902 00:46:24,796 --> 00:46:27,396 Speaker 2: So I'm gonna use this track to write something about 903 00:46:27,436 --> 00:46:30,476 Speaker 2: the circus. But I don't want to write about animals 904 00:46:31,076 --> 00:46:33,396 Speaker 2: or trapeze artists or anything like that. I wanna write 905 00:46:33,436 --> 00:46:36,996 Speaker 2: something personal for people. When I was in elementary school, 906 00:46:38,076 --> 00:46:40,556 Speaker 2: I had a social studies teacher who got named mister Smith. 907 00:46:40,596 --> 00:46:44,076 Speaker 2: He was German, and he told us the story of Paiachi. 908 00:46:44,916 --> 00:46:46,836 Speaker 2: Now to this day, while I'm talking to you right now, 909 00:46:46,836 --> 00:46:49,716 Speaker 2: I don't know if Poliacchi was real or just mythical. 910 00:46:50,676 --> 00:46:52,516 Speaker 2: But I thought about that and I said, I'm gonna 911 00:46:52,516 --> 00:46:54,916 Speaker 2: write this song about Polyiachi, but I'm gonna make it 912 00:46:54,956 --> 00:46:59,676 Speaker 2: personal because Palliacchi was the Italian clown that was the 913 00:46:59,716 --> 00:47:02,836 Speaker 2: star of the circus when he when the circus came 914 00:47:02,876 --> 00:47:05,916 Speaker 2: to town, people came to see Poliachi, mainly the animals 915 00:47:05,956 --> 00:47:08,636 Speaker 2: and all this stuff that was secondary to Poliachi. Paiacchi. 916 00:47:08,836 --> 00:47:11,716 Speaker 2: They loved him. They cheered him. They more and more 917 00:47:11,756 --> 00:47:13,796 Speaker 2: they cheered him, and then he would go back to 918 00:47:13,796 --> 00:47:17,276 Speaker 2: his dressing room and he would cry because he didn't 919 00:47:17,276 --> 00:47:19,756 Speaker 2: have that kind of adulation from a woman, from a 920 00:47:19,796 --> 00:47:22,476 Speaker 2: personal woman. He would cry about it. You know, So 921 00:47:22,596 --> 00:47:26,076 Speaker 2: someone right this about Payachi. Some are right. So that's 922 00:47:26,116 --> 00:47:28,756 Speaker 2: where Tears of a Clown came from. So Cheers of 923 00:47:28,756 --> 00:47:33,236 Speaker 2: a Clown comes out on an album in nineteen sixty seven, 924 00:47:34,156 --> 00:47:38,036 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy, a girl who worked for Motown in 925 00:47:38,116 --> 00:47:41,116 Speaker 2: England was in the office and she was playing that 926 00:47:41,196 --> 00:47:43,916 Speaker 2: album in the office and a guy who ran our 927 00:47:43,916 --> 00:47:47,156 Speaker 2: office over there was a guy named Peter. So Peter 928 00:47:47,276 --> 00:47:49,916 Speaker 2: comes by get the story and he says, what's that 929 00:47:49,956 --> 00:47:53,116 Speaker 2: you're listening to? She said, Peter, we should release this 930 00:47:53,156 --> 00:47:56,036 Speaker 2: record over here because this is a hit, so we 931 00:47:56,076 --> 00:47:57,596 Speaker 2: should release it over here. I don't care what they're 932 00:47:57,596 --> 00:47:59,876 Speaker 2: doing in the States. We should release this over here. 933 00:48:00,316 --> 00:48:01,796 Speaker 2: So they put Tears of a Clown out in the 934 00:48:01,876 --> 00:48:05,636 Speaker 2: UK number one. Motown ain't never had number one record 935 00:48:05,676 --> 00:48:07,676 Speaker 2: in the UK ever yet until that point, you know, 936 00:48:09,476 --> 00:48:12,356 Speaker 2: and then it starts to blossom all over Europe. So 937 00:48:12,396 --> 00:48:14,516 Speaker 2: I had another record ready to come to go in 938 00:48:14,636 --> 00:48:16,556 Speaker 2: the in the United States here, so I said, I 939 00:48:16,636 --> 00:48:18,516 Speaker 2: told barrass I got to say. He said, no, no, no, man, 940 00:48:18,836 --> 00:48:22,516 Speaker 2: we put out Tears for Clown. So we put out 941 00:48:22,596 --> 00:48:25,516 Speaker 2: Terms with Cloud here in the States and Chisser Clown 942 00:48:26,396 --> 00:48:28,796 Speaker 2: to this moment, it's the biggest single record that I've 943 00:48:28,836 --> 00:48:31,836 Speaker 2: ever been associated with in my life. Really, okay, yeah, 944 00:48:32,356 --> 00:48:36,996 Speaker 2: Chisser Clown's I mean, you know, it's just so all 945 00:48:37,036 --> 00:48:40,476 Speaker 2: over the world, just as that was out, and so 946 00:48:41,156 --> 00:48:42,956 Speaker 2: the guys came to me and say, man, you can't 947 00:48:42,956 --> 00:48:44,756 Speaker 2: retire now because tis the clown's out and it's the 948 00:48:44,756 --> 00:48:47,036 Speaker 2: big suit we ever had, so my money's gonna go 949 00:48:47,156 --> 00:48:49,916 Speaker 2: up and all that stuff, which it did. So I said, okay, man, 950 00:48:49,916 --> 00:48:52,596 Speaker 2: I'm gona give you another year. So I did. I 951 00:48:52,596 --> 00:48:53,916 Speaker 2: gave and I said, but I want you all to 952 00:48:53,916 --> 00:48:57,036 Speaker 2: start looking for people because I'm retiring and I don't 953 00:48:57,036 --> 00:48:58,556 Speaker 2: have to. I don't have to help you look for 954 00:48:58,556 --> 00:49:01,116 Speaker 2: somebody to replace me because I'm not gonna be there 955 00:49:01,596 --> 00:49:03,476 Speaker 2: and y'all got to live with whoever this is, it's 956 00:49:03,476 --> 00:49:05,676 Speaker 2: gonna come in, you know. So they look for guys 957 00:49:05,756 --> 00:49:07,276 Speaker 2: all over the country and they finally found a guy 958 00:49:07,316 --> 00:49:11,916 Speaker 2: named Bill Griffin in Baltimore. So for the last few months, 959 00:49:11,996 --> 00:49:14,796 Speaker 2: about four or five months of my touring with the Miracles, 960 00:49:14,996 --> 00:49:17,196 Speaker 2: Bill traveled with us to see the show and to 961 00:49:17,276 --> 00:49:19,356 Speaker 2: learn it and blah blah blah blah blah. So So 962 00:49:19,396 --> 00:49:22,196 Speaker 2: then I retired and I moved out to Los Angeles. 963 00:49:22,756 --> 00:49:24,596 Speaker 2: And I moved out to Los Angeles, and when I 964 00:49:24,636 --> 00:49:27,556 Speaker 2: lived in Detroit, my vice president your office was to 965 00:49:27,596 --> 00:49:30,676 Speaker 2: induct new talent. And I love that cause I saw 966 00:49:30,716 --> 00:49:32,796 Speaker 2: talent all over the world and go to New York. 967 00:49:32,796 --> 00:49:35,796 Speaker 2: I say, okay, you can come wheel auditions you So 968 00:49:35,876 --> 00:49:38,356 Speaker 2: I loved doing that, you know. So we moved out 969 00:49:38,396 --> 00:49:42,676 Speaker 2: to Los Angeles and uh, I get out and Barry says, hey, man, 970 00:49:42,716 --> 00:49:45,116 Speaker 2: he says, you're my best friend. He says, So I'm 971 00:49:45,116 --> 00:49:47,796 Speaker 2: gonna change your office function. I said, okay, man, what 972 00:49:47,836 --> 00:49:49,796 Speaker 2: do you want me to do? He said, uh, I'm 973 00:49:49,796 --> 00:49:52,476 Speaker 2: gonna make you the financial office. You gonna sign all 974 00:49:52,476 --> 00:49:54,876 Speaker 2: the payroll checks. All the checks that come into the 975 00:49:55,076 --> 00:49:57,036 Speaker 2: company are gonna come through you, except for the payment 976 00:49:57,036 --> 00:50:00,276 Speaker 2: for the records. So that's what you're gonna do. So 977 00:50:00,316 --> 00:50:02,156 Speaker 2: I said, okay, man. So I'm ready for that. Man, 978 00:50:02,156 --> 00:50:04,356 Speaker 2: I'm ready for change. I'm not gonna be on stage. 979 00:50:04,396 --> 00:50:06,956 Speaker 2: And my thought at that point was to never ever 980 00:50:07,036 --> 00:50:10,396 Speaker 2: be on stage again in my life. I was never 981 00:50:10,436 --> 00:50:13,116 Speaker 2: going to record myself again. I might record some other 982 00:50:13,116 --> 00:50:15,636 Speaker 2: people and do some other songs and some other artists 983 00:50:15,636 --> 00:50:17,556 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. I wanted to do that, but 984 00:50:17,636 --> 00:50:19,596 Speaker 2: not for me. I'm gonna be at home with my 985 00:50:19,716 --> 00:50:21,876 Speaker 2: kids and my wife, and I'm gonna do my vice 986 00:50:21,916 --> 00:50:24,516 Speaker 2: presidential thing here at the office, and I'm gonna sign 987 00:50:24,516 --> 00:50:28,276 Speaker 2: these checks. So when I started to do that, my 988 00:50:28,396 --> 00:50:32,036 Speaker 2: name is William Robinson Junior. Okay, after my dad and 989 00:50:32,076 --> 00:50:37,396 Speaker 2: I was signing in the checks, William Robinson Junior, William 990 00:50:37,836 --> 00:50:41,516 Speaker 2: Robinson Junior. And after I had signed about a thousand checksmen, 991 00:50:42,356 --> 00:50:45,076 Speaker 2: I said, this is not going to work. So you 992 00:50:45,156 --> 00:50:47,996 Speaker 2: see my signature. Now, my signature is the room. It's 993 00:50:48,036 --> 00:50:50,836 Speaker 2: just like that. I had to change it at the 994 00:50:50,876 --> 00:50:54,116 Speaker 2: banks and everywhere, man, because you know when you're signing 995 00:50:54,236 --> 00:50:57,316 Speaker 2: like that. So in the first couple of years, man, 996 00:50:57,516 --> 00:51:02,476 Speaker 2: I was in vice presidential heaven, and then also my job, 997 00:51:02,516 --> 00:51:03,796 Speaker 2: he would have me to go to New York and 998 00:51:03,796 --> 00:51:06,116 Speaker 2: make deals with publishing companies, and do you know I 999 00:51:06,236 --> 00:51:08,796 Speaker 2: got I was in vice presidential heaven. But then I 1000 00:51:08,796 --> 00:51:12,676 Speaker 2: started to hurt inside. I started to hurt inside. I 1001 00:51:12,756 --> 00:51:17,556 Speaker 2: was missing something, and so it got to the point 1002 00:51:17,556 --> 00:51:22,556 Speaker 2: whereas after about two and a half years, I was miserable. 1003 00:51:23,996 --> 00:51:27,316 Speaker 2: My insights were miserable. But I'm smiling on outside. It's 1004 00:51:27,316 --> 00:51:29,876 Speaker 2: like tracking my tears and stuff like that. I'm smiling 1005 00:51:29,876 --> 00:51:31,836 Speaker 2: on U because I don't want Barr to think, Okay, 1006 00:51:31,956 --> 00:51:34,996 Speaker 2: I can't handle this. I let him down. I don't 1007 00:51:35,036 --> 00:51:36,716 Speaker 2: want claud it to think. Okay, I don't want to 1008 00:51:36,756 --> 00:51:41,236 Speaker 2: be at home with her the kids. So I'm just miserable. Man, 1009 00:51:41,476 --> 00:51:44,556 Speaker 2: And I am so miserable. Man, I go in. So 1010 00:51:44,676 --> 00:51:47,396 Speaker 2: one day, after about three years, Man Barry came to 1011 00:51:47,436 --> 00:51:48,796 Speaker 2: my office. He say, Man, I want you to do 1012 00:51:48,836 --> 00:51:51,596 Speaker 2: something for me. I said, okay, Man, what you want 1013 00:51:51,636 --> 00:51:53,916 Speaker 2: me to do? He said, uh, sit down for saying, 1014 00:51:53,956 --> 00:51:55,356 Speaker 2: let's talk. I want you. I need to do something 1015 00:51:55,356 --> 00:51:59,276 Speaker 2: for me. Something. He's gonna tell me some corporate I 1016 00:51:59,276 --> 00:52:00,996 Speaker 2: gotta have a meeting with so ands on stay sets, 1017 00:52:01,036 --> 00:52:03,796 Speaker 2: I got to go to this place and so he said, 1018 00:52:03,836 --> 00:52:04,956 Speaker 2: I need to do something. I said, what do you 1019 00:52:04,956 --> 00:52:07,916 Speaker 2: need me to do? Man? He said, I don't. I 1020 00:52:07,956 --> 00:52:11,316 Speaker 2: can't use profanity on this interview. I can. I can 1021 00:52:11,356 --> 00:52:14,956 Speaker 2: say verbat him, what do you say? Okay verbatim? So 1022 00:52:15,036 --> 00:52:16,756 Speaker 2: he sat down. He said, I want you to get 1023 00:52:16,756 --> 00:52:19,356 Speaker 2: yourself a band and going to the studio make a record. 1024 00:52:19,396 --> 00:52:20,676 Speaker 2: I want you to get the fuck out of here. 1025 00:52:22,036 --> 00:52:23,156 Speaker 2: I said, what did you say to me? 1026 00:52:23,236 --> 00:52:23,436 Speaker 1: Man? 1027 00:52:23,916 --> 00:52:24,676 Speaker 2: He said, you heard me? 1028 00:52:24,716 --> 00:52:24,876 Speaker 1: Man? 1029 00:52:25,396 --> 00:52:26,676 Speaker 2: I said, no, I didn't hear you. I said, what 1030 00:52:26,716 --> 00:52:28,956 Speaker 2: did you say to me? Man? He said, I want 1031 00:52:28,956 --> 00:52:30,876 Speaker 2: you to get yourself a band. You go on the 1032 00:52:30,876 --> 00:52:32,796 Speaker 2: studio and make a record, and I want you to 1033 00:52:32,796 --> 00:52:35,516 Speaker 2: get the fuck out of here. I said, what are 1034 00:52:35,516 --> 00:52:35,956 Speaker 2: you talking about? 1035 00:52:35,956 --> 00:52:36,076 Speaker 1: Man? 1036 00:52:36,116 --> 00:52:37,476 Speaker 2: I said, you don't think I'm doing a good He said, no, 1037 00:52:37,516 --> 00:52:40,476 Speaker 2: I ain't about that. Man. He says you're miserable, he said. 1038 00:52:40,516 --> 00:52:42,196 Speaker 2: I said, you coming in every day and you're miserable. 1039 00:52:42,596 --> 00:52:44,636 Speaker 2: You're my best friend. I know when you're miserable. Man. 1040 00:52:44,796 --> 00:52:46,756 Speaker 2: You can't hide at you from me. So I know 1041 00:52:46,796 --> 00:52:49,956 Speaker 2: you're miserable. So when I say you're miserable, it makes 1042 00:52:49,996 --> 00:52:51,756 Speaker 2: me miserable. So I need you to get the fuck 1043 00:52:51,796 --> 00:52:59,596 Speaker 2: out of my face. So I just hugged him. I 1044 00:52:59,636 --> 00:53:04,076 Speaker 2: was so happy. I just hugged him. And so that 1045 00:53:04,156 --> 00:53:07,716 Speaker 2: was my best friend peeping me. Man, Wow, he peeped me, 1046 00:53:07,796 --> 00:53:08,236 Speaker 2: he saw. 1047 00:53:09,716 --> 00:53:09,916 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1048 00:53:10,196 --> 00:53:12,956 Speaker 2: It fills me up right now. I don't know, but 1049 00:53:13,676 --> 00:53:17,516 Speaker 2: it was such a oh. Anyway, I went home. I 1050 00:53:17,516 --> 00:53:20,876 Speaker 2: was very very happy, and Claude said, well, what you 1051 00:53:20,956 --> 00:53:23,236 Speaker 2: so have? I said, Well, I told her what happened. 1052 00:53:23,476 --> 00:53:26,996 Speaker 2: She said, I agree with him. Wow, you know wow. 1053 00:53:27,316 --> 00:53:30,956 Speaker 2: So I said, Okay, I've always considered myself to be 1054 00:53:30,956 --> 00:53:34,396 Speaker 2: a quiet singer, but I'm gonna go back. Man, I'm 1055 00:53:34,436 --> 00:53:37,476 Speaker 2: gonna take show business by Storm, and. 1056 00:53:37,516 --> 00:53:39,676 Speaker 4: I thought about what I just said. I said, we 1057 00:53:39,916 --> 00:53:45,516 Speaker 4: made a quiet Storm. It's a great idea. So piano, 1058 00:53:46,556 --> 00:53:49,036 Speaker 4: that's how that comes about. I wonder to piano, start 1059 00:53:49,076 --> 00:53:50,796 Speaker 4: to write a quiet storm, man, you know. 1060 00:53:51,436 --> 00:53:53,956 Speaker 2: And my youngest sister who was actually fourteen when I 1061 00:53:53,996 --> 00:53:56,996 Speaker 2: was born, but she was a great lyricist man. And 1062 00:53:57,076 --> 00:53:59,276 Speaker 2: so I started the song and I was gonna do 1063 00:53:59,316 --> 00:54:00,996 Speaker 2: this whole album now. I'm gonna do a whole album 1064 00:54:01,036 --> 00:54:03,276 Speaker 2: now because I'm going back to show business. So I'm 1065 00:54:03,276 --> 00:54:04,596 Speaker 2: working on that. When I took it to her and 1066 00:54:04,636 --> 00:54:06,396 Speaker 2: I say, baby, finish this song up, because this is 1067 00:54:06,396 --> 00:54:09,676 Speaker 2: gonna be the title cut for my So she finish up, 1068 00:54:09,716 --> 00:54:14,396 Speaker 2: and I recorded it and recorded a Quiet Storm, and 1069 00:54:14,476 --> 00:54:16,716 Speaker 2: it was my debut back into show business, and it 1070 00:54:16,756 --> 00:54:21,076 Speaker 2: became something that I had no inkling that it was 1071 00:54:21,076 --> 00:54:21,596 Speaker 2: going to become. 1072 00:54:21,636 --> 00:54:21,836 Speaker 1: I had. 1073 00:54:21,956 --> 00:54:24,116 Speaker 2: I was just writing something to come back into show business. 1074 00:54:24,156 --> 00:54:27,156 Speaker 2: I wasn't thinking about what it was going to do. 1075 00:54:28,156 --> 00:54:29,716 Speaker 2: And then there was a young man who was a 1076 00:54:29,756 --> 00:54:32,836 Speaker 2: disc jockey at night disc jockey in Washington, d C. 1077 00:54:33,116 --> 00:54:36,316 Speaker 2: Named Melbourn Lindsay, and he had a show that came 1078 00:54:36,356 --> 00:54:38,596 Speaker 2: on in the evening. His show started probably about nine 1079 00:54:38,596 --> 00:54:42,076 Speaker 2: o'clock at night and went through midnight and he started 1080 00:54:42,116 --> 00:54:47,156 Speaker 2: he named his show the Quiet Storm. Okay, radio stations 1081 00:54:47,196 --> 00:54:52,116 Speaker 2: all over the country started to have a Quiet Storm format. 1082 00:54:53,756 --> 00:54:56,996 Speaker 2: Now I'm not thinking that this is going to happen, man, 1083 00:54:57,276 --> 00:54:59,116 Speaker 2: you know, I'm just writing a song to come back 1084 00:54:59,116 --> 00:55:02,516 Speaker 2: into show business. But it has become a radio format. 1085 00:55:03,636 --> 00:55:08,956 Speaker 2: And this year we're celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the 1086 00:55:09,196 --> 00:55:12,556 Speaker 2: debut of A Quiet Storm. Wow, and our tour this 1087 00:55:12,636 --> 00:55:15,796 Speaker 2: year is going to be called the Quiet Storm Tour Beautiful. 1088 00:55:15,796 --> 00:55:21,476 Speaker 1: So dude, it's it's amazing the penchant for again. You wanna, 1089 00:55:21,756 --> 00:55:23,876 Speaker 1: you want to you want to get into show business. 1090 00:55:23,996 --> 00:55:27,076 Speaker 1: You meet Barry Gordy, and then you this whole company 1091 00:55:27,076 --> 00:55:30,396 Speaker 1: gets created around it, this whole ecosystem that lifts up 1092 00:55:30,516 --> 00:55:32,516 Speaker 1: you and Barry and so many other people, and then 1093 00:55:32,516 --> 00:55:34,356 Speaker 1: it's I want to get back into show business, you right, 1094 00:55:34,596 --> 00:55:37,876 Speaker 1: A Quiet Storm, which not only is like an incredible 1095 00:55:38,436 --> 00:55:41,396 Speaker 1: entree back into show business, but creates this whole other 1096 00:55:41,596 --> 00:55:43,556 Speaker 1: radio format, Like you're saying, almost the whole of the 1097 00:55:43,676 --> 00:55:46,516 Speaker 1: genre within R and B music for other people that 1098 00:55:46,516 --> 00:55:49,276 Speaker 1: people realize that, oh I like this vibe, And there's 1099 00:55:49,436 --> 00:55:52,236 Speaker 1: compilation see these now there quiet storm and you know, 1100 00:55:52,236 --> 00:55:57,596 Speaker 1: it's just so this that sort of knack in your 1101 00:55:57,636 --> 00:56:01,716 Speaker 1: life of these sort of things that are it's it's 1102 00:56:01,756 --> 00:56:06,316 Speaker 1: almost like, you know, similar maybe to like what's going 1103 00:56:06,356 --> 00:56:09,756 Speaker 1: on the way Marvin exists. It's a it's a it's 1104 00:56:09,796 --> 00:56:13,356 Speaker 1: a thing that was probably very personal to him, Yeah, 1105 00:56:13,396 --> 00:56:18,156 Speaker 1: but just resonates out so widely that it's just, you know, 1106 00:56:18,556 --> 00:56:23,076 Speaker 1: it's so that's it. Whatever was happening with you guys 1107 00:56:23,396 --> 00:56:25,996 Speaker 1: at Motown and Detroit. Even Aretha, who wasn't part of 1108 00:56:26,036 --> 00:56:26,876 Speaker 1: Motown but just. 1109 00:56:27,556 --> 00:56:30,156 Speaker 2: Her dad, would not gonna come. Man. I talked to 1110 00:56:30,236 --> 00:56:33,156 Speaker 2: her about coming, and he felt like we were not 1111 00:56:34,516 --> 00:56:36,636 Speaker 2: strong enough for her. He wanted her to be with 1112 00:56:36,676 --> 00:56:39,196 Speaker 2: Columbia and Capitol and all those people like that where 1113 00:56:39,236 --> 00:56:41,436 Speaker 2: she was at first she was with Columbia and they 1114 00:56:41,436 --> 00:56:43,836 Speaker 2: had her singing standards of what they call the Great 1115 00:56:43,876 --> 00:56:46,116 Speaker 2: American Songbook, because Aretha is one of those people. She 1116 00:56:46,116 --> 00:56:50,796 Speaker 2: could sing anything. Aretha did the most amazing thing that 1117 00:56:50,836 --> 00:56:53,996 Speaker 2: I think I've ever seen a singer do. We were 1118 00:56:53,996 --> 00:56:55,956 Speaker 2: having the Grammys one year, and I forgot what year 1119 00:56:55,996 --> 00:56:58,596 Speaker 2: it was, but Aretha was going to get something there, 1120 00:56:58,636 --> 00:57:02,476 Speaker 2: you know, And so Pavaratti was supposed to come and 1121 00:57:02,556 --> 00:57:06,716 Speaker 2: sing this song in Italian and he was going to 1122 00:57:06,796 --> 00:57:10,156 Speaker 2: be on the Grammys, and he got sick, and the 1123 00:57:10,156 --> 00:57:12,916 Speaker 2: producer came to a Reatha and say, hey, Aretha, Papa 1124 00:57:12,956 --> 00:57:16,796 Speaker 2: Latti is sick. We need somebody to sing this song. 1125 00:57:17,636 --> 00:57:20,556 Speaker 2: Aretha goes and takes the song and listens to Paparadatti 1126 00:57:20,596 --> 00:57:24,356 Speaker 2: singing in the dressing room and learns it in the 1127 00:57:24,436 --> 00:57:32,876 Speaker 2: dressing room in the dressing room and sings it. 1128 00:57:31,556 --> 00:57:31,996 Speaker 1: Lable. 1129 00:57:32,116 --> 00:57:36,316 Speaker 2: Yeah, she was, you know, she's Aretha man. But yeah. 1130 00:57:36,356 --> 00:57:38,116 Speaker 2: So he wanted her to be with Columbia and she 1131 00:57:38,236 --> 00:57:40,556 Speaker 2: was with them and she sang no songs, but nothing 1132 00:57:40,636 --> 00:57:44,716 Speaker 2: was happening. And uh then I think it was probably 1133 00:57:44,836 --> 00:57:49,076 Speaker 2: Jerry Wexler or something like that. They approached her and said, hey, 1134 00:57:49,116 --> 00:57:52,196 Speaker 2: you know, we could do something for you, and she 1135 00:57:52,196 --> 00:57:54,196 Speaker 2: she said, man, She asked me, she smokes you, what 1136 00:57:54,276 --> 00:57:56,276 Speaker 2: you think I should do? I said, I think you 1137 00:57:56,276 --> 00:57:58,596 Speaker 2: should go over there and be Aretha, So I think 1138 00:57:58,596 --> 00:58:01,396 Speaker 2: you should do so she did. 1139 00:58:02,076 --> 00:58:03,676 Speaker 1: Was there any part of you that thought though, like, well, 1140 00:58:03,716 --> 00:58:06,916 Speaker 1: wait a second, maybe you could go to Atlantic, but 1141 00:58:06,956 --> 00:58:08,076 Speaker 1: maybe come to come? 1142 00:58:08,356 --> 00:58:10,916 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I said, you know, I want you to come. 1143 00:58:11,756 --> 00:58:13,556 Speaker 2: Her dad wouldn't litter because he didn't think we were 1144 00:58:13,556 --> 00:58:17,116 Speaker 2: strong enough. Yeah, he didn't think we were established enough. 1145 00:58:18,196 --> 00:58:20,276 Speaker 1: But you know, everything's what it's supposed to be. But 1146 00:58:20,276 --> 00:58:21,396 Speaker 1: that would have been pretty incredible. 1147 00:58:21,556 --> 00:58:25,236 Speaker 2: That would have been. But then you know, we didn't 1148 00:58:25,276 --> 00:58:26,596 Speaker 2: have her, but we had Gladys. 1149 00:58:28,036 --> 00:58:32,916 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but you guys have more talent than you could. 1150 00:58:32,956 --> 00:58:35,236 Speaker 1: I mean, come on, everything about people like Bobby Taylor 1151 00:58:35,396 --> 00:58:37,676 Speaker 1: and uh, well Bobby Tailing the Vancouver's like, you know 1152 00:58:37,716 --> 00:58:40,716 Speaker 1: that's there, and it's like, guess he's an incredible singer. 1153 00:58:41,436 --> 00:58:43,236 Speaker 2: Bobby Taylor was the one who brought the Jackson five 1154 00:58:43,276 --> 00:58:45,036 Speaker 2: to Motown. Man, is that true? Yeah? 1155 00:58:45,236 --> 00:58:45,796 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. 1156 00:58:45,996 --> 00:58:48,876 Speaker 2: Yeah, Bobby Taylor bought them. You know, they they they 1157 00:58:49,356 --> 00:58:51,996 Speaker 2: they first started to tour with Diana Ross. So I 1158 00:58:52,036 --> 00:58:54,556 Speaker 2: think at first people gave her credit for bringing them there. 1159 00:58:54,556 --> 00:58:58,916 Speaker 2: But Bobby Taylor about the Jackson five, man, and uh 1160 00:58:59,036 --> 00:59:01,556 Speaker 2: he was working with them. And people asked me, what 1161 00:59:01,716 --> 00:59:04,636 Speaker 2: is one of my fondest memories about Michael Okay, when 1162 00:59:04,676 --> 00:59:08,396 Speaker 2: Michael first came to audition for at Barry's house, when 1163 00:59:08,436 --> 00:59:13,156 Speaker 2: the Jackson five came, he was so incredible to me. 1164 00:59:14,196 --> 00:59:16,436 Speaker 2: Here's this little dude. Man, he's about this toy. He's 1165 00:59:16,436 --> 00:59:24,676 Speaker 2: ten years old, and that day I dubbed him James 1166 00:59:24,676 --> 00:59:28,676 Speaker 2: Wilson because he was a cross between James Brown and 1167 00:59:28,756 --> 00:59:33,636 Speaker 2: Jackie Wilson at ten years old, I mean, dancing his 1168 00:59:33,676 --> 00:59:37,596 Speaker 2: little ass off, you know, and singing and just a 1169 00:59:37,636 --> 00:59:41,156 Speaker 2: bundle of talent. Always thought his life was so paradoxical 1170 00:59:41,196 --> 00:59:42,996 Speaker 2: because when he was a kid, he was a man, 1171 00:59:43,196 --> 00:59:44,516 Speaker 2: and when he was a man, he was a kid, 1172 00:59:45,076 --> 00:59:50,876 Speaker 2: you know. But he was just dynamic and people said, well, 1173 00:59:50,876 --> 00:59:55,156 Speaker 2: what do you remember? I remember that. And then Bobby 1174 00:59:55,196 --> 00:59:58,596 Speaker 2: Taylor and I he used to pretty golf together all 1175 00:59:58,596 --> 01:00:01,116 Speaker 2: the time, you know, So we started taking Michael to 1176 01:00:01,156 --> 01:00:02,916 Speaker 2: the golf course with He'd be on the cart wood us. 1177 01:00:03,276 --> 01:00:05,316 Speaker 2: Michael didn't had never even seen a golf club. The 1178 01:00:05,316 --> 01:00:07,276 Speaker 2: first time he went out the Woodson, he's telling us 1179 01:00:07,316 --> 01:00:10,236 Speaker 2: how to play golf. You know. Love that. You know 1180 01:00:11,116 --> 01:00:12,876 Speaker 2: you're in a badge of you Why you hit your 1181 01:00:12,916 --> 01:00:14,916 Speaker 2: ball over there like that you're supposed to hit the ball. 1182 01:00:16,756 --> 01:00:20,516 Speaker 2: But he was a cute little guy. But I love 1183 01:00:20,596 --> 01:00:26,436 Speaker 2: that memory. But yeah, he was. He changed the face 1184 01:00:26,476 --> 01:00:29,636 Speaker 2: of show business. Michael Jackson changed the look of show business. 1185 01:00:30,716 --> 01:00:32,876 Speaker 2: You know, I look at him, and I look at 1186 01:00:33,396 --> 01:00:35,436 Speaker 2: he was such a bundle of talent. Like I said, 1187 01:00:35,996 --> 01:00:38,276 Speaker 2: Michael watched everybody. We'd be doing those shows, and Michael 1188 01:00:38,356 --> 01:00:42,636 Speaker 2: be standing in the wings and he watched everybody. He 1189 01:00:43,516 --> 01:00:47,396 Speaker 2: idolized the dancing and the stuff of Jackie Wilson and 1190 01:00:47,436 --> 01:00:51,476 Speaker 2: Fred Astaire and James Brown and those people like that, 1191 01:00:52,076 --> 01:00:55,916 Speaker 2: and he worked his dancing skills like that. You know, 1192 01:00:56,036 --> 01:00:59,036 Speaker 2: Like I said, I could even understand him doing James 1193 01:00:59,036 --> 01:01:03,596 Speaker 2: Brown and Jackie Wilson. But Fred Astaire, the Nicholas Brothers, 1194 01:01:04,756 --> 01:01:06,596 Speaker 2: how do you even know about them? You know what 1195 01:01:06,636 --> 01:01:10,516 Speaker 2: I mean? When Michael did the moonwalk on the on 1196 01:01:10,556 --> 01:01:12,876 Speaker 2: the on the on the Motown twenty fifth anniversaries and 1197 01:01:12,876 --> 01:01:16,996 Speaker 2: people saying to do it, Oh, it's a fantastic mikeel 1198 01:01:16,996 --> 01:01:19,396 Speaker 2: got the moonwalk from the Nicholas Brothers. Was a movie 1199 01:01:19,396 --> 01:01:23,596 Speaker 2: called Stormy Weatherable. You know, they did that in Stormy 1200 01:01:23,596 --> 01:01:26,276 Speaker 2: Weather back. Lena Horn was the star of that movie. 1201 01:01:26,316 --> 01:01:27,996 Speaker 2: So you know how long ago they were nineteen twenty 1202 01:01:28,036 --> 01:01:32,356 Speaker 2: something they're doing the moonwalk, you know. But yeah, but 1203 01:01:32,436 --> 01:01:36,316 Speaker 2: Michael was just an incredible talent man, And like I said, 1204 01:01:36,356 --> 01:01:39,436 Speaker 2: he'd be dancing with those he'd have fifteen dancers who 1205 01:01:39,436 --> 01:01:41,236 Speaker 2: had been dancing since they were five years old. There 1206 01:01:41,316 --> 01:01:45,036 Speaker 2: was their profession. They're professional dancers and they're dancing alongside 1207 01:01:45,036 --> 01:01:49,596 Speaker 2: of him, and he's out dancing all of them. It's incredible. 1208 01:01:50,236 --> 01:01:51,396 Speaker 2: Oh man, incredible. 1209 01:01:51,516 --> 01:01:53,956 Speaker 1: Well, Smoky, I'm excited to see you back on tour. 1210 01:01:54,676 --> 01:01:56,916 Speaker 2: I'm excited to go. We've been off for a minute now. 1211 01:01:57,556 --> 01:02:01,396 Speaker 2: So as they say, I'm rid, well. 1212 01:02:01,236 --> 01:02:04,876 Speaker 1: Break I appreciate talking, thank you, thank you, very fasher man. 1213 01:02:04,876 --> 01:02:08,356 Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Incredible, honor, my blessure, bib cool. 1214 01:02:08,516 --> 01:02:14,716 Speaker 1: All right, Happy birthday to the great Smokey Robinson. You 1215 01:02:14,716 --> 01:02:16,636 Speaker 1: can hear a playlist of all of our favorite tracks 1216 01:02:16,636 --> 01:02:19,396 Speaker 1: of his and the episode description or by visiting Broken 1217 01:02:19,476 --> 01:02:23,116 Speaker 1: Record podcast dot com and be sure to follow us 1218 01:02:23,156 --> 01:02:26,436 Speaker 1: on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You can follow 1219 01:02:26,476 --> 01:02:29,956 Speaker 1: us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced 1220 01:02:29,996 --> 01:02:32,836 Speaker 1: and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric 1221 01:02:32,916 --> 01:02:37,276 Speaker 1: Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday. Broken 1222 01:02:37,316 --> 01:02:40,636 Speaker 1: Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love 1223 01:02:40,676 --> 01:02:44,836 Speaker 1: this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. 1224 01:02:45,396 --> 01:02:48,676 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content 1225 01:02:48,756 --> 01:02:51,476 Speaker 1: and ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. 1226 01:02:52,156 --> 01:02:56,076 Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts, subscriptions, and if 1227 01:02:56,076 --> 01:02:58,556 Speaker 1: you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and 1228 01:02:58,596 --> 01:03:01,396 Speaker 1: review us on your podcast at our theme music's by 1229 01:03:01,436 --> 01:03:03,356 Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.