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Speaker 1: Hi Brian, Hi Katie, and hello listeners. Last week the

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Speaker 1: podcast took us to Austin, Texas, and this week we're

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. We're such world travelers, Brian, we

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Speaker 1: are Katie. And in fact, on the plane over here,

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Speaker 1: I sat next to a very nice guy named Grant

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Speaker 1: Francis from Yes and he was about to download an

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Speaker 1: episode of our show. Seriously, seriously, and you just saw

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Speaker 1: him downloading it now, I just I was looking at

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Speaker 1: his phone. Of course. As a matter of fact, I

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Speaker 1: am actually the co host of that podcast. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for the impression of my nasal voice. That is sort

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Speaker 1: of what I said, hopefully a little less obnoxious. No no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: But that was so cool. It was really cool, and

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Speaker 1: he was very nice, and he said that he liked

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Speaker 1: a couple past episodes of our show. So it was

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Speaker 1: very nice to meet a listener. And Grant, thank you

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Speaker 1: very much for listening. I second that, Grant, thank you

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Speaker 1: for downloading our podcast, and we're glad you're enjoying it. Me.

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Speaker 1: We're here in Washington to interview the junior senator from

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Speaker 1: the state of Alabama, Senator Doug Jones. He's Alabama's first

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Speaker 1: Democratic senator in twenty five years exactly. And this all

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Speaker 1: came about because Jeff Sessions quit his Senate sy to

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Speaker 1: become Donald Trump's Attorney General. I wonder whether he's still

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Speaker 1: glad he left. By the way, anyway, there was a

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Speaker 1: special election to replace Sessions, and Alabama, as many of

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Speaker 1: our listeners know, because our listeners are very smart, is

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Speaker 1: a deeply read state that went overwhelmingly for President Trump

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Speaker 1: in two thousand sixteen. The empty seat was expected to

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Speaker 1: go to a Republican candidate, any Republican candidate, quite easily.

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Speaker 1: But but as our listeners are very smart listeners probably

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Speaker 1: remember last fall, several women gave on the record accounts

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Speaker 1: accusing the GOP candidate Roy Moore of making sexual advances

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Speaker 1: toward them when they were teenagers. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post just won a Politzer Prize for its

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Speaker 1: coverage of that story. As congratulations to my friend to

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post. So, Doug Jones defeated Roy Moore, and

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Speaker 1: Alabama's African American voters in particular came out in overwhelming

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Speaker 1: numbers in support of Jones, but not so much the

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Speaker 1: white voters in Alabama. No, he only got thirty of

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Speaker 1: the white vote, which was enough but barely enough to

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Speaker 1: win so anyway, In today's show, we'll get to know

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Speaker 1: Alabama's newest senator from his teenage years and newly integrated

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Speaker 1: public schools to his role in prosecuting to Ku Klux

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Speaker 1: Klan members responsible for an infamous nineteen sixty three Birmingham

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Speaker 1: church bombing that killed four young black girls, and full

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Speaker 1: disclosure Doug Jones. Senator Jones is a good friend of

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Speaker 1: my second cousin, Henry Frozen and his lovely wife Caroline

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Speaker 1: down of Birmingham, Alabama. And uh so I have a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a connection with him through my cousin Henry,

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Speaker 1: through your Gothic Southern roots. That's right. So here we

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Speaker 1: are in his office, and it was it was very

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Speaker 1: exciting to be able to interview Senator Jones to come

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Speaker 1: to the Capitol. I always get a kick out of

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Speaker 1: being here, no matter how many times I've been. And

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Speaker 1: our first question to him was a very simple one.

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Speaker 1: What is it like when Mr Jones comes to Washington

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Speaker 1: here you are, Yeah, yeah, it's it's as exciting as

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Speaker 1: it's ever been for me. What's exciting about it? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, a part of It is just surreal. And

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Speaker 1: part of it the excitement is is just literally, you know,

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Speaker 1: starting my career here, I mean with Senator Heflin from Alabama,

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Speaker 1: who I just really looked up to his entire life

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Speaker 1: and still do look up to him for advice in

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Speaker 1: many ways. And to have walked off the Senate floor,

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Speaker 1: which I think is a real place of reverence as

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Speaker 1: a twenty six year old Senate staffer with him, and

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Speaker 1: to come back in his seat, you know too many

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Speaker 1: years later, but still to walk back on it is.

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Speaker 1: I get chills every time I walk in and to

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Speaker 1: just you know, walk off the elevator and those the

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Speaker 1: pages open, those double doors, and to walk onto the floor,

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Speaker 1: it's just remark it's just amazing. I'm just honored. I'm

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Speaker 1: humbled to be here. It's just as exciting as actutive

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Speaker 1: ever thought it might be. You're getting kind of Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it will, it will absolutely. And I noticed here in

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Speaker 1: your office, your new office, there's a picture and a

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Speaker 1: place of honor above the man of you and Senator

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Speaker 1: Heflun Yeah, he was. He was an amazing guy. The

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Speaker 1: day I was sworn in, and I wore a pair

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Speaker 1: of his cufflings. Uh. The only time I've worn him

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Speaker 1: I got from his son who Uh Tom, Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think because well, first of all, you have to remember,

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Speaker 1: the Senate is a far different place today than it

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Speaker 1: was then. And in those days, you know, bipartisanship was

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Speaker 1: really more than a catch slogan and a campaign or

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Speaker 1: a sound bite. Uh, they really did it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you had regular order in which bills went through committees

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Speaker 1: and there were hearings, and you get it to the

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Speaker 1: Senate floor and you have the opportunities for amendments and

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Speaker 1: real debates like the Senate was designed to do. And

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Speaker 1: we just don't do that anymore. I mean there are

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Speaker 1: senators that have been here for two and four years

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Speaker 1: that really have never seen regular order. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: what it is. And so that's he had that ability

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Speaker 1: I think as a as a Southern Senator to really

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Speaker 1: bridge the gaps a lot, to reach across the aisle.

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Speaker 1: You know, he voted in with President Reagan a lot,

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Speaker 1: he voted with President Clinton a lot. He was just

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Speaker 1: a really great role model and would uh and and

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Speaker 1: back home in Alabama. Uh, he was loved by all

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Speaker 1: sorts of folks. I'll never forget in nineteen seventy eight.

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Speaker 1: When he first ran this was seventy eight, he had

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Speaker 1: done the judicial article that the quote I always remember

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Speaker 1: was from the director of the Alabama Civil Liberties Union

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Speaker 1: with that, you know, pretty liberal group in Alabama and elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: But his comment in a Time magazine article was that

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Speaker 1: Judge Heflin is the kind of public servant of which he,

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Speaker 1: his mother, and his grandmother can all agree. That says

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Speaker 1: it all to me. If you can bridge that span

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Speaker 1: of generations, you're really doing the right thing. I know

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Speaker 1: we could probably spend hours talking about what happened, but Senator,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're just describing what it was like here

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Speaker 1: when you were a Senate staffer, and now it seems

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Speaker 1: completely dysfunctional. Yes, no, I won't say it's completely dysfunctional,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's close. Um. The budget process is just horrible.

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Speaker 1: It is just something that we should not You should

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Speaker 1: not be funding the government of the United States on

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Speaker 1: a kick the can down the road basis, and everybody

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Speaker 1: trying to put must have um, you know, special things

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Speaker 1: in a in a budget bill and a must pass bill.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a long time coming. Um. I can't

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Speaker 1: really pinpoint one thing I think you go back to

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Speaker 1: the Clinton in peachment and how folks really started attacking

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Speaker 1: uh President Clinton, Uh and the first lady at the time.

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Speaker 1: I think that carried over some and folks attacked George W. Bush,

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Speaker 1: except for you know, after nine eleven and in people

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Speaker 1: rallied around. But since that time and with the election

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Speaker 1: of Barack Obama, it just seems that everything has become

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Speaker 1: more and more and more polarized and rancor us and

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Speaker 1: the votes that are done are really political messaging votes.

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Speaker 1: A lot even on nominees their political messaging votes. Um.

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Speaker 1: I will say, Katie, there's a lot more collegiality in

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Speaker 1: the Senate that goes on that that people don't see,

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Speaker 1: and that has been very good for me to be

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Speaker 1: able to see. You often see the dueling press conferences,

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Speaker 1: or you see you know, one senator from either party

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Speaker 1: going on the floor and railing against whatever or railing

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Speaker 1: for something. But what you don't often see as work

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Speaker 1: going on with staff and behind the scenes, UM, in

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Speaker 1: the committee level. You don't see when we take votes

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Speaker 1: over there people on both sides of the all talking

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Speaker 1: to each other, not just hidden back in the cloak rooms,

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Speaker 1: but they're they're talking about their kids, and they're talking

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Speaker 1: about different There's a lot more of that, but it

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Speaker 1: just comes to when it comes down to the schedule

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Speaker 1: of the Senate. The majority leader controls that, and I

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Speaker 1: think the majority leader, whether it has been Republican or Democrat,

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Speaker 1: has controlled that in a little bit more political way

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Speaker 1: than what the Senate has traditionally done in the past.

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Speaker 1: There's been a lot of discussion about members of Congress

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Speaker 1: not spending time together because they're so quick to go

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Speaker 1: home and you know, run for re election and the

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Speaker 1: fundraising needs are so But you're saying, have you been

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Speaker 1: able to spend time with people from you know, Republican

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Speaker 1: senators in a social way? Some not as much as

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Speaker 1: as as I would like. I've some for lunch, We've

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Speaker 1: met for breakfast. Um, most of that time has been

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Speaker 1: spent on the floor when we're over there for a vote,

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Speaker 1: just talking or at a committee uh level. But that's

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Speaker 1: that's right. People leave. I get out of here on

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Speaker 1: on Thursdays. I've told you I've been here three and

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Speaker 1: a half almost four months now. I don't know what Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. It looks like anymore, because I I get

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Speaker 1: to the office I have a really full schedule. I'm

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Speaker 1: back and forth to the Capitol, or I'm back and

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Speaker 1: forth to the dirks in our heart building for for hearings. UH.

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Speaker 1: As soon as the order of business is done, there's

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Speaker 1: a reception for somebody in Alabama, or there's a fundraising

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Speaker 1: reception for someone else, or for me. Go back to

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Speaker 1: my little place at nine o'clock at night, read the

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Speaker 1: briefing books for the next day, get up and do

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Speaker 1: it all over again. So there's not as much I

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Speaker 1: think people do miss, you know, the weekends where folks

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Speaker 1: didn't feel compelled to go home. But it's the world

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Speaker 1: we live in today that's not as much. Congress. I

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Speaker 1: think that as much as anything is the demands of

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Speaker 1: our the people that we represent. They want to see us.

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Speaker 1: You used to run a campaign against somebody who gets

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Speaker 1: detached from the people at home. They don't go home anymore.

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Speaker 1: They stay in Washington, d C. And you run against

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Speaker 1: the Beltway. So people started going home, and people started

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Speaker 1: demanding they want to see their U. S. Senator, even

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Speaker 1: if they didn't vote for him or her. They want

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Speaker 1: to see, they want to talk, they want to be

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Speaker 1: able to reach out at least that's my philosophy. So

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Speaker 1: we're we're getting back home a lot, uh and starting

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Speaker 1: to try to move around. When you talked about rising partisanship,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned the opposition to President Obama, and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk more about race later. But how much of um,

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Speaker 1: the intense opposition to him do you think was driven

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Speaker 1: by the fact that he was the first African American president. Well, personally,

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Speaker 1: I think it was. I think there was a good

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Speaker 1: bit um, but that kind of bubbled up from the ground.

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't. I don't abscribe that to any

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Speaker 1: of the in the Senate. I really don't believe that.

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Speaker 1: I think it was just a political thing and that

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Speaker 1: folks saw an opportunity because there was such opposition there

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Speaker 1: were You couldn't find anybody in Alabama that would ever

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Speaker 1: say that they were opposed to President Obama because of

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Speaker 1: his race. But you always knew that that was an

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Speaker 1: underlying part of a good bit of the opposition. There's

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Speaker 1: no question, ever admit that nobody's ever gonna mean, not

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Speaker 1: many people. But when Donald Trump raised the issue of

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Speaker 1: his birth certificate, do you think he was playing the

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Speaker 1: race card? Yes, absolutely, I think he I think I

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Speaker 1: think it was playing a race card. But I also

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Speaker 1: think he was playing a Trump card, for lack of

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Speaker 1: a better term. I mean, I quite frankly think that

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Speaker 1: that was as much as anything, because he knew that

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Speaker 1: there was a base out there that that believed that

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Speaker 1: there were a lot of people that really believed that

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Speaker 1: and thought that and it was so bogus. But Trump

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Speaker 1: saws an opportunity to play that card to build his

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Speaker 1: uh stature some And then you know, it was only

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Speaker 1: after it got completely debunked and he saw it was

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Speaker 1: gonna be a negative for him that he very timidly said,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, well maybe I was not right. I don't

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Speaker 1: even think he said that seat of Donald Trump. He's

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Speaker 1: been president for a little over a year. Now, how

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Speaker 1: do you think he's doing so far? But before you

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Speaker 1: tell us that, have you met him? Yeah? I have.

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Speaker 1: He called me the day after the election, was very nice, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, congratulating me on the win, said he was

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Speaker 1: looking forward to having me to the White House and

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Speaker 1: to work together. There was no you know, there was

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Speaker 1: nothing you which begs a very nice call. Uh. It

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Speaker 1: took about a month I think when we the first

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Speaker 1: government shut down. I mean, think of this how many,

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Speaker 1: how many how many senators get sworn in and then

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Speaker 1: they have a chance to shut the government down after

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Speaker 1: a month. I mean, that's just was crazy. Um. And

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Speaker 1: when we voted back up, he called over here and

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Speaker 1: asked that I and Senator Mansion go to the White House,

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Speaker 1: and so we went over there that afternoon, and again

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Speaker 1: it was just a pleasant conversation. Um. You know, General

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Speaker 1: Kelly was there, there were a couple of other folks

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Speaker 1: in the room, and there was not any kind of

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Speaker 1: hard bargains. You know, DACA and immigration was the biggest

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Speaker 1: issue driving things at that point, but there was none

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Speaker 1: of that. There was a little bit of talk of that.

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Speaker 1: There was some talk about infrastructure. I told him about

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Speaker 1: some specific infrastructure issues with sewers and things like that

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Speaker 1: in Alabama that I thought he should know about. So

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Speaker 1: it's just a little pleasant call. That was the only

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Speaker 1: that's been the only time I've seen the legislative folks

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Speaker 1: a couple times. And you you actually were there. Wasn't

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Speaker 1: just a call, no, no, no, we went over there.

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Speaker 1: We were we sat in the Oval office, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we were there, and he just he wanted to the

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Speaker 1: southern kind of call. Yeah, that's what I mean. We

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Speaker 1: called on him. He called on up and and and

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Speaker 1: so we but we were there. They were literally holding

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Speaker 1: a vote for me and Joe because the President just

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Speaker 1: kind of wanted to talk a little bit. And I

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Speaker 1: think he enjoyed the talk, and we we kicked around

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Speaker 1: a few things. We were there about forty five minutes,

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Speaker 1: I guess, and and literally had to just like zoom back,

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Speaker 1: and he was pleasant to us. It was it was

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Speaker 1: a nice conversation. I had no no complaints about that

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Speaker 1: conversation at all. President Trump has been in office a

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Speaker 1: little over a year. How do you think he's doing

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Speaker 1: so far? Well. I think it's a mixed bag. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think the President is doing some a lot of

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Speaker 1: what he said he was going to do, and and

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Speaker 1: in that respect, respect, you've got to, you know, give

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Speaker 1: him some high marks, even though I don't like a

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Speaker 1: lot of the things he's doing. I don't like a

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Speaker 1: lot of the rollbacks he's doing by executive orders and

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Speaker 1: those kind of things. I don't like the fact that

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Speaker 1: e p. A Is being dismantled right before our eyes.

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Speaker 1: I don't like the fact that he has done some

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Speaker 1: things on foreign policy that I think has has diminished

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Speaker 1: the United States of America standing in the world. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think you know that all of the tariffs, I

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Speaker 1: think all of the just things he's done in Europe

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Speaker 1: to just basically pull away from, you know, being the

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Speaker 1: world leader and the moral leader of the world that

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Speaker 1: we've always been, I think that that is pulling back.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, he showed some toughness in Syria.

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Speaker 1: Uh he is. I didn't particularly like the name calling

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Speaker 1: with North Korea, and that scared me to death. But

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Speaker 1: there's you know, he's at least I think they're planning

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Speaker 1: some things and people are a little bit more hopeful

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Speaker 1: now about some resolution with North Korea about that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he brought Kim john n ostensibly or apparently to the table,

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Speaker 1: and I think people have mixed feelings about it. You

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Speaker 1: think it's a good thing, Well, I think, Look, any

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Speaker 1: time that you can deflate the tensions that we had

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Speaker 1: there about four or five months ago, I think that's

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Speaker 1: a good thing. Now. I think people got very concerned,

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Speaker 1: as did I. And this was before I was elected.

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Speaker 1: When you started seeing Twitter wars, which was just silly

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Speaker 1: junior high school name calling rocket man, you know, just

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Speaker 1: all sorts of things beneath the dignity of the President

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Speaker 1: of the United States. On the other hand, I also

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Speaker 1: know enough about the United States government to know there

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Speaker 1: was a lot going on behind the scenes. And so

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Speaker 1: I think between what the administration has done, uh and

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Speaker 1: what the world has kind of done as well, because

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Speaker 1: we're not the only ones putting pressure on North Korea.

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Speaker 1: Their their economy isn't the shambles. They're incredibly poor. Um,

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Speaker 1: they need the world. They need the world a lot

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Speaker 1: more than the world needs them. And so I think

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Speaker 1: there was a combination of things that is, at least

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Speaker 1: for the time being, kind of ratcheted down the threat level.

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Speaker 1: That's not to say that their North Korea is not

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Speaker 1: still a threat, because they certainly are. And I don't

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Speaker 1: take the recent events of pulling back and suspending their

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Speaker 1: nuclear testing as anything more than what is normally done

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Speaker 1: in anticipation of more talks. I mean, that's fairly standard

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Speaker 1: for even a road nation like like North Korea. Right now,

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Speaker 1: we'll see how that goes. And we've now started trade

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Speaker 1: wars with China when we really need China to help

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Speaker 1: us with North Korea. It's a real complicated thing, which

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, Katie, is is all of those

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Speaker 1: answers you gotta figure a year ago. I'm just a

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Speaker 1: lawyer in Birmingham alumn Okay, So so keep all this

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Speaker 1: in mind when I'm I'm waxing eloquent. I'm still learning

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Speaker 1: a lot. But the criticism has been that you shouldn't

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Speaker 1: reward Kim jongun with a presidential meeting without having demonstrated

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Speaker 1: real meeting progress. I don't disagree with that at all.

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Speaker 1: And we're not there yet. We that meeting is not

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Speaker 1: taking place. I think what's come out of the administration

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Speaker 1: is he would like to I don't have a problem

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Speaker 1: with that, but we'll see. Because I am of the

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Speaker 1: camp that certainly, uh, there needs to be something more

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Speaker 1: than oh, we're going to suspend right now before the

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Speaker 1: leader of the free world meets with someone like, uh,

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Speaker 1: the North Korean leader. Sounds like you're willing to give

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Speaker 1: President Trump some some prompts on a few things. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's you know, look, he's the thing. He's

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Speaker 1: being treated unfairly in the media. I'm not sure I'll

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Speaker 1: go that far, because I think he treats the media

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Speaker 1: a lot more unfairly than the media treat him. UM.

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Speaker 1: I don't buy into the fake news argument or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. Um. I've got my own criticism some of

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Speaker 1: the media where I think the media focuses on issues

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Speaker 1: that sell newspapers and podcast and you know, and and

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Speaker 1: thist not this one, of course not um. But you know,

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Speaker 1: so there there's a combination of things. Um. Has he

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Speaker 1: been treated unfairly in certain circumstances, Yes, But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, you know, there's some things he he has

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Speaker 1: said and done that I think is fair game. A

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Speaker 1: lot of what he's done is fair game. So I

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Speaker 1: don't think overall, I don't think he's been treated unfairly

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Speaker 1: at all. On the other hand, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: when did we think that we were going to use

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Speaker 1: the term the president in the same sentence as a

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Speaker 1: porn star? I mean what what? Yeah, no, no, I

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Speaker 1: I get it. It's it will almost daily make your

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Speaker 1: head explode. I mean that and all the other allegations

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Speaker 1: that that have come up, and the collusion and and

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Speaker 1: whether a lawyer is going to flip or not flip

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Speaker 1: flip on what I mean. It's there is a cavalcative

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Speaker 1: things that are are disturbing. I think for people to

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Speaker 1: look at and there's a lot I know of a

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Speaker 1: lot of investigations, and so in that context, I don't

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Speaker 1: think that there's an unfairness at all with that. My

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Speaker 1: concern is that the president is able to use his

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Speaker 1: social media platform to basically say, just don't look at

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Speaker 1: any of that. It's all fake. Well it's it's not

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Speaker 1: all fake. I mean, there are facts out there, and

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Speaker 1: sooner or later, there's a lot of facts that are

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Speaker 1: gonna come out. We just don't know where they're gonna land.

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Speaker 1: You've been a practicing lawyer your whole life and a

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Speaker 1: former U S attorney, were also a defense attorney, So

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Speaker 1: I was curious to ask you about how you've felt

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Speaker 1: when you see what's going on with the president's lawyer,

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Speaker 1: Michael Cohen, and what kinds of things, Senator, would you

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Speaker 1: be looking for if you were in charge of this investigation. Wow, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a that's a pretty loaded question. Um.

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Speaker 1: First of all, let me let me let's let's back

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Speaker 1: up just a little bit, because having a search warrant

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Speaker 1: executed on the office and the home of a lawyer

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Speaker 1: and the hotel room and the hotel is it there's

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Speaker 1: a number of steps that you have to go through,

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Speaker 1: and you know you have to. So let's go back,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the Special Counsel presented some evidence to

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Speaker 1: the Justice Department that, however they got it, they believe

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Speaker 1: showed that there was some potential criminal activity. Remember, it's

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Speaker 1: just a probable call standard, it's not proof beyond a

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Speaker 1: reasonable doubt or anything like that. And so the Special

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Speaker 1: Counsel presented that to Rod Rosenstein, the Deputy Attorney General

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Speaker 1: who's in charge of that. That was appropriate for them

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Speaker 1: to do. In any major investigation. When you're subpoenaing as

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Speaker 1: many witnesses and as many documents, the odds are you're

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Speaker 1: going to find something outside of your lane that you

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Speaker 1: see as a potential problem. It happens in every major investigation.

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Speaker 1: And the Special Council stand up situation though his lane

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Speaker 1: is is such that unless it's really related, he shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be doing it. So he presented it to the Dag

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Speaker 1: and Rosenstein says, this is not in your lane. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna move it to where it needs to be.

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Speaker 1: So that's step number one. Everybody did their exact right thing.

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Speaker 1: They did exactly what the law requires. Rosenstein then assigns it,

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Speaker 1: they look at it, and I can to the U.

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Speaker 1: S Attorney for the Southern District, who I understood me

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Speaker 1: have recused himself. But let now they're there are prosecutors

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Speaker 1: on the ground, just like in my office in Birmingham

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Speaker 1: where that are looking at this and are evaluating this

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Speaker 1: evidence for probable cause to see that a crime was committed,

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Speaker 1: that Mr Cohen may have been involved in the crime,

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Speaker 1: and that there are documents in his possession that they

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Speaker 1: can't really get hold of or they don't believe they

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Speaker 1: can get except through the use of a search warrant,

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Speaker 1: which is a pretty extraordinary procedure. And so there's layer

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Speaker 1: upon layer of review within the Justice Department in order

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Speaker 1: to get approval to then go to a judge who

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Speaker 1: has to review it independently before that search warrant is issued.

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Speaker 1: So Mr Cohen's in trouble, I mean, he's I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's some real issue now. I've seen in my in

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Speaker 1: my lifetime, in my career, there have been any number

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Speaker 1: of search warrants issued that resulted in no criminal charges

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason. Could that be the case here? Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: But the fact is the rule of law is prevailing

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Speaker 1: at this point, and I'm convinced the rule of all

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Speaker 1: will prevail and if there's a problem there, he will

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Speaker 1: get charged. If there's not a problem, and I'm convinced

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Speaker 1: the rule of all will prevail and that case will

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Speaker 1: be closed. But it's a really that's and that's just Cohen.

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Speaker 1: And then you've got Mueller's special counsel doing their own work,

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Speaker 1: and unknown Bob Mueller a long time. Um, he is

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Speaker 1: the consummate professional. Everybody up here believes that and knows that,

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Speaker 1: at least here in the Senate, he is moving efficiently.

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Speaker 1: He is doing so without a lot of leaks, which

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Speaker 1: is incredibly important. Um. And so you know there's gonna

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be some things yet to fall. They're doing

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Speaker 1: a lot of work. Where that goes, no one knows,

429
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: and we shouldn't continue to speculate about that. Until said that, though,

430
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 1: if you were President Trump, would you be more worried

431
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: about Michael Cohen or Bob Muller. Well, I think that

432
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: anytime somebody's lawyer is subpoena and you would have to

433
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: worry about that because there are potentially things that could

434
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: come to light that are generally you would have thought

435
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: privileged that may not be a crime, but you just

436
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: don't want them to do that. But at the same time,

437
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: it's a little bit inconsistent from what I'm hearing right

438
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: now is that I'm not worried about Michael Cohen flipping. Okay, well,

439
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if somebody has not done anything wrong,

440
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 1: you know, you should be the first to say, Michael,

441
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: please cooperate, give him everything, look at all this, And

442
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: instead it's like, oh, I trust him, He's not gonna flip.

443
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: That's a little bit disturbing, and it tells me unfortunately

444
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: for the President, he is not listening to his lawyers

445
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: because I guarantee his his personal lawyers are just cringe

446
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: every time something like that is said, because it makes him.

447
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,239
Speaker 1: I think he's not versed enough in this world of

448
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: federal criminal law to understand the terminology, and he's saying

449
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: things that really make him look bad. I would I

450
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: would be I would be locking him in a safe

451
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just telling you, I would. You know.

452
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: The worst thing is to have clients out there on

453
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: Twitter and talking I like that because they it always

454
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: comes back to haunt you. You know, Katie in the

455
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: church bombing cases and one of the things that we

456
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: did in Charity's case. After he was interviewed, he called

457
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: a press conference and we used his statements as evidence

458
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: against him, but with a number of things he said.

459
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: So you know, all the clients should listen to their lawyers,

460
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk more about that case in a moment.

461
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: But one last thing. You said that everybody up here

462
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 1: respects Bob Mueller. That said Mitch McConnell won't bring up

463
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: legislation to protect Mueller's investigation in case the President at

464
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,959
Speaker 1: some point decides to fire him. Why do you think

465
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: he's said, I don't know. I don't know. I think

466
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: that there's a bipartisan bill that I think is a

467
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: very reasonable bill. I don't know. It's got to come

468
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: out of committee. I think it might this week. And

469
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: one reason maybe because Senator McConnell doesn't think it would

470
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: ever pass the House, UH and the President would never

471
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: sign it. From my standpoint, that's not a reason not

472
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: to put it up. I think the Senate of the

473
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: United States needs to speak on that issue and let

474
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: folks know where they stay end uh, and if they

475
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 1: stand with trying to protect the Special Counsel as a

476
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 1: body Uh, they ought to say so if they don't

477
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: want to do that, they need to be on record

478
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: and to say that they don't. And when you heard

479
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: that about Mitch McConnell, I mean, what did you think.

480
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: I just was disappointed. Um, there may be things in

481
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: his mind that I just don't know. I would hope

482
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 1: that that would come up. I would hope that that

483
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: if that can get through the committee in a bipartisan way,

484
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: there would be enough pressure from his own caucus to say,

485
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 1: you know, bring to this, this to the going back

486
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: to this regular order business. I think that there are

487
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,719
Speaker 1: times when the Senator of the United States needs to speak.

488
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: Let the chips fall where they're going to fall, but speak,

489
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: let that message go forth, and it doesn't matter whether

490
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: the House would go along with it or the president.

491
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: We're an independent body and we need to speak. We'll

492
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: be back shortly with Alabama Senator Doud Jones right after

493
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: this time to dig into the listener mail bag, everybody.

494
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: Thank you to our listeners who responded to our request

495
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: for dispatches from rural areas. We wanted to hear from

496
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: folks and communities that have been impacted by factory closings.

497
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 1: The opioid epidemic and or battles over immigration. So we

498
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: got this voicemail from an anonymous listener who I think

499
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: really sums up some of the challenges in rural America

500
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: right now. And let's listen. My parents live in Skinny Ollis,

501
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: New York, which is adjacent to Cortland that used to

502
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: be the home of Wilf Tennis rackets, broadway truck and

503
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: a sewing machine company. And unfortunately to town is completely

504
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: dried up since it's been so impoverished. The opioid epidemic

505
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: is run rampant through um these towns. Lack of funding,

506
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 1: lack of business, lack of trade brings fewer dollars to

507
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: the community, which means there's less police present, which makes

508
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: it even more prone to high crime. But the setting

509
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: it's so rampant that um, I believe it's also causing

510
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: many people their lives from from suicide. We really appreciate

511
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: that call, and sadly, Brian, what that gentleman was talking

512
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: about is all too true. In fact, there's something called

513
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: deaths of despair which talks about people taking their own

514
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: lives or turning to drugs or alcohol, and many people

515
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: are dying in record numbers. In my White working Class

516
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: or White Anxiety episode, Erie, Pennsylvania has its suicide rate

517
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: has skyrocketed and the average ages of forty seven year

518
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: old white male. It's a huge problem in many rural

519
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: and rust belt community all over the country. That's right.

520
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: And a lot of these areas have a lack of

521
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: access to drug treatment and mental health treatment. So all

522
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: of these problems are really compounded by the lack of

523
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: resources for people who need help. And I think one

524
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: of the things we tried to do in this episode

525
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: is to actually hear from people in these communities and

526
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: understand the struggles that they're dealing with as this economic

527
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: transition has left many of them out in the cold.

528
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: As always, thank you so much for calling, Thank you

529
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: for your honesty, and we really really appreciate your feedback.

530
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: It's important for us to hear from all of you.

531
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: Next up your Brain on tech, more specifically tech addiction.

532
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: That's a topic from America inside out that will be

533
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: tackling next on this podcast. Is technology causing all of

534
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: us to somehow lose our humanity. We want to hear

535
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: from those of you who think you have a real

536
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: problem with tech like quite honestly, I did. Maybe you're

537
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: hooked on your martphone or someone close to you is

538
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: when did you realize this was an issue? How is

539
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: it impacting your life, your relationship, the way you spend time,

540
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: or maybe you've put your foot down and refused to

541
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: get a smartphone, or you've gone back to a flip phone.

542
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: We want to hear about that as well, So call

543
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: and leave us a message at nine to nine to

544
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: to four four six three seven, or you can email

545
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: us at comments at current podcast dot com. Or you

546
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: can check out our episode from last August with Gene

547
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: Twingy on tech Addiction. I thought it was a particularly

548
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: interesting and insightful one. That's episode number thirty six on

549
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: your podcast player. Let's talk a little bit about your backstory, Senator,

550
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: because you're the first Democrat to win the ruby red

551
00:30:54,080 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: state of Alabama since and um, you grew up obviously

552
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: in Birmingham and such a tumultuous time and really the

553
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: height of the civil rights movement, and I'm curious what

554
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: you remember growing up. And I was also interested to

555
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: read that you come from a family of George Wallace. Yeah,

556
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: they were supporters, supporters, what sort of gave you an

557
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: epiphany growing up that this mentality needed to be challenged.

558
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: I think that there was a combination of of a

559
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: lot of things. And my family was a pretty conservative.

560
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: They were George Wallace backers, but they weren't haters. They

561
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: weren't a vowed racist. And there was a big difference

562
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: because Wallace was not only race baiting, but he was

563
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: also running against the federal government zone and there was

564
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: this protection that Alabama has. You know, people often say

565
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,239
Speaker 1: Missouri is the show me state in Alabama's to make

566
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: me state, and that's there's a there's been some truth

567
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: to that over the years. I was nine years old,

568
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: for instance, in sixty three, and as the world change,

569
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: it seemed that kids changed easier than parents did. Parents

570
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: and grandparents who had grown up in a society in

571
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: which there were norms. Me. You can call it America's

572
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: on or part out or whatever you call it, but

573
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: that's where things were. You know, when I was in school,

574
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: you know, we started having integrated schools. It was freedom

575
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: of choice plans, and I think kids adapted. My school

576
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: did a pretty good job I think of adapting to

577
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: those things, the band, the football team, everything that sounds

578
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: like you did a good job too. I thought it

579
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: was very moving to read accounts from African American students

580
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: who went to school with you and the kind of

581
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: person you were and the way you reached out to

582
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: them in a way that quite frankly, many of your

583
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: white classmates didn't. Well, I think the goal was going back.

584
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: You know, we had a predominantly white high school, we

585
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: had an all black high school in the photo courts

586
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: combined them all. And the one thing I learned in

587
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: my like freshman and first part of my sophomore year

588
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: and high school was what how much fun high school

589
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: can be? And and so I think there were with

590
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: me and others wanted to make that high school experience

591
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: what it should be. It should be fun, you know,

592
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: you should do all the things that teenagers do, both

593
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: good and bad. And the only way to do that

594
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: is to try to reach out and to talk to people,

595
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: and to try to accommodate. When you've got two schools

596
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: coming together and they've got different, completely different traditions, trying

597
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: to mold those two, you can't force one on the other.

598
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: The student council president, I was, you know, what what

599
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: can I say? You should say it's you know, it's

600
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: interesting that the KKK has played a significant role in

601
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: your life for a long time. I mean, I remember

602
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: reading in law school. You would cut class to see

603
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: this this case, this church bombing case, which you resuscitated

604
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: as the U S attorney much later in your career.

605
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: Can you describe that case, why it was so important

606
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: to you, and what ultimately happened with it and what

607
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: you saw when you were a law student. Well, what

608
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: I saw when I was a law student it was

609
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: a dramatic courtroom drama. I mean, I wanted to be

610
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: a trial lawyer. To me, lawyers, you know, weren't weren't

611
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: people sitting at desk closing loans and things like that,

612
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,439
Speaker 1: and they's they're great. I'm not saying anything bad about

613
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: any of that. Laws. We love lawyers all all kinds.

614
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: But to me, lawyers were Perry Mason and people in

615
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 1: courtrooms and you know, and the Atticus Finch, the drama,

616
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: the justice. All of that came from being a trial lawyer.

617
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: And that's what I so when I cut classes, it

618
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: was not just because it was a significant historical case.

619
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: And by the way, can you just quickly parenthetically described

620
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: that case for our listeners to remind them. Yeah. Now,

621
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty three, September fift on a Sunday morning,

622
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: a bomb exploded at him been placed outside underneath the

623
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: steps of the sixteenth Street Baptist Church and right but

624
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: by it was the large oneow that led straight into

625
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: the ladies lounge in the basement of the church, and

626
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: there were five young girls. They're getting ready for a

627
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: youth worship service and that momb killed four. Uh. It

628
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: was a Sunday morning, between Sunday school and church. It

629
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 1: was gonna be a youth worship service and those girls

630
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 1: were down there to be part and to get ready

631
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 1: for that. And it was a real, I believe, turning

632
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: moment a Birmingham had just gone through uh, fire hoses

633
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: and dogs in the spring of sixty three. What what

634
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,479
Speaker 1: people forget is that the schools of Birmingham were gonna

635
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: were integrated like five days before that bombing, which was

636
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: really I think that the catalyst for for why that

637
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 1: bomb was planted there. And the case went unsolved despite

638
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: incredible efforts of the FBI and prosecutors at the time,

639
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: they just couldn't quite make it. There was only a

640
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: five year statue of limitations in federal court. So the

641
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: case was closed, and then a young Alabama Attorney General,

642
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: Bill Backsley opened it up in nineteen seventy one when

643
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: he was sworn in as Alabama's a G. Brought the

644
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: case against Robert Chambliss, known as Dynamite Bob Um. You

645
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: can't make this up, you know, in ninety seven, and

646
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: that's when I thought, Okay, this is not a just

647
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 1: a historical case. Baxley is one of the great trial lawyers.

648
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a trial lawyer. So just like

649
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: three years before, I'd been with Supreme Court Justice William O.

650
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: Douglas on a trip when he took to Alabama University

651
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: of Alabama and I and then talking about advice for

652
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: a young trial lawyer, he said, go watch trials, Go

653
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: see good trial lawyers ply their trade. And so that

654
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: was the perfect opportunity. And I sat in the balcony

655
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: most of the time. I sneak up in the balcony

656
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: and watched from above the testimony and Bill's dramatic closing argument,

657
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: in which everybody in the courtroom was in tears. He

658
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: convicted Chambliss. Chambliss went to his grave from prison, never

659
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: ever talking about the cases, and you know, it kind

660
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: of stayed on a shelf for twenty four years, And

661
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 1: it was right before I became the U S Attorney

662
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: in nine seven that publicly it was announced that it

663
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: was reopened. And you know, I'll never forget the day

664
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: when I read that it was gonna be open. I

665
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: told my wife, you know, Louise, this is kind of

666
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: why you go back to be a public servant, because

667
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: this is an opportunity here and it's gonna define how

668
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: we do things in the States. So it's amazing. How

669
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: hard was it to prosecute the cases of the two

670
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: other individuals. You know, it sounds harder than it was.

671
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: It was hard to investigate. There were so many people

672
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: had died, witnesses, potential witnesses we were tracking down. We

673
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: didn't have any real physical evidence. So putting the pieces

674
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: of that puzzle together was extraordinary. And we you know,

675
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: Bobby Frank Cherry was one of the defendants. He made

676
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: certain admissions over the years that people came forward and

677
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: told us about. We found in a tape recording that

678
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: had been made of a of a bug that had

679
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 1: been put in Tommy Blanton's apartment talking to his then

680
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: wife about the bombing and what he was doing that weekend.

681
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: So things just fell in place for us, so that

682
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: when we finally got to trial, we had a process

683
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: that we stuck to consistently, and it everything worked really good.

684
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: We had a good judge, the defense lawyers were lawyers

685
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: that we trusted, and they trusted us, so there was

686
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: not a lot of really anger or anything. It was

687
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: a very methodical presentation, and I just felt very good

688
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: that at the end of the day we painted a picture.

689
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: The pieces of those puzzle at the end were pulled

690
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 1: together in closing arguments that showed beyond a reasonable doubt

691
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: that those two guys were guilty. That must have been

692
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: an extraordinarily important moment for the city of Birmingham, and

693
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 1: for the state of Alma, and for the country. Really,

694
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: and yet here we are. I was in Charlottesville, Virginia

695
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: senator when that so called all right, really white supremacist

696
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: neo Nazi rally took place, and I remember listening to

697
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: Reverend Tracy Blackman from Ferguson, Missouri the night before at

698
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: an interface service when there were scores of white, predominantly

699
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: white men, many of them young, and Brooks brother Khakis

700
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 1: and Isazad you know, what do you call this lacast

701
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: shirts uh looking all neat and clean with their torches,

702
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: their tiki torches. And she said, the clan is rising

703
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: again because we never cut the head off. Yeah, when

704
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: you saw those scenes from Charlottesville, my my, my heart sunk.

705
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 1: I mean, you just you cannot believe that that's still going.

706
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: You see the images, you see that the chance, I mean,

707
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,479
Speaker 1: it was just stunning to me. And remember a year

708
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: before that it was Dylan Rufe going into another church

709
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: in Charleston, South Carolina and killing nine p people um

710
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 1: and talking about the race war things that we heard

711
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 1: from the nineteen sixties and and all the Confederate battle

712
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: flags that are flying and things like this. I'm not

713
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: sure I would say you didn't cut the head off,

714
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 1: because you know, I think that Mars Desent some mothers

715
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: really did an incredible job about the organized clan. This

716
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: is not this is different. The rise of social media

717
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 1: has allowed you know, hate groups to come up as

718
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: Internet groups that can get together when they talk among themselves.

719
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: You know, even as early when I was your attorney,

720
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: I was there from one I would give speeches to

721
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: uh PTA groups, to say, monitor to your kids. I mean,

722
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: those were old days of a O L group chats

723
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: and things like that, not anywhere like it is today.

724
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: But to monitor that because you were beginning to see

725
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: the rise of folks who harbored these feelings. There were

726
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: a lot of lone wolves that we saw in the

727
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: early two thousands, uh in Texas, in Illinois and other

728
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: places that were committing these hate crimes. It's certainly one

729
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: of those things that I don't understand. But yet I

730
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: from an intellectual standpoint, I can see the rise. With

731
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: the social media presence that we have now, it just

732
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: breeds that kind of kind of interaction. So but but

733
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: it's and and that's hard to cut because you can

734
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: you can change laws, you can prosecute people, you can

735
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: do all those things, but that doesn't change somebody's heart.

736
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: What was your reaction when President Trump said that there

737
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: were fine people and almost almost yelled at the TV,

738
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: I'm Mr President, there are no fine people among white

739
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: supremacists and clans and neo Nazis. They're not They're not

740
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: fine people. So why do you think you said that

741
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: I have no idea? Well, you really have no idea.

742
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: You don't think he was trying to appeal to that group,

743
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: used it as part of his face. You know, look,

744
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna go there, you know, I I just

745
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: I see that, and intellectually you can ways say that.

746
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: I have no idea. Sometimes politicians say stupid things to

747
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: not to just try to appeal, but to try to

748
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: play both sides. I don't want to accuse him of that,

749
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: although I've probably done it in the past. I just

750
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: think that that was just all button moronic statement. Book.

751
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: And what really bothered me about at the most is

752
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 1: that the president had such an opportunity to drive a

753
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 1: stake in somebody's heart, to say, to to cut the

754
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: head off a little bit about Donald Trump, of all

755
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: people could have done that, and if he'd done it

756
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: the right way, it would have been so significant. And

757
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: he missed that opportunity. And whether he intended or not,

758
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: it did embolden people. There's no question that that statements

759
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 1: like that, uh and and to some extent his campaign

760
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: emboldened that aught right in the neo Nazi folks. In

761
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: words matter asked someone from Alabama, you know, Brian Stevenson

762
00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: is opening his lynching museum, and in this episode for

763
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: Naccio that I did about Confederate monuments. Uh. He talked

764
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: about the history we've neglected by E. Lynch ing, Uh,

765
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: slavery and the long Tail and the Jim Crow South.

766
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: How do you feel about Confederate statute, Senator, Well, one,

767
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: I'm going down to this weekend for the e g

768
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: I opening is but most of the events and I

769
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 1: can't wait. You know, my my personal view is that

770
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: I am not a fan of those monuments. I think

771
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: from a personal standpoint, they should be removed from public places. Uh.

772
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 1: That's a personal thing of mine. What I have said, though,

773
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: is that I don't believe that the Congress. I don't

774
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: believe a state legislature should tell a community what to

775
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: do with those If it was up to me, I

776
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: would put them in a historical place, because they are

777
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: part of a history that you can't erase, and you

778
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 1: can't you can't deny that history, good or bad. But

779
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: I would move them to historical places, whether it's a battlefield,

780
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 1: it's a cemetery or whatever, away from public display where

781
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: they're being a government is paying for them. At the

782
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 1: same time, I think local people are in the best

783
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: position to do that. The city council's the county commissions.

784
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 1: I don't think it's the Alabama legislatures uh prerogative, for instance,

785
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: to pass a law that says that you, Mr. Mayor

786
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: and the city council, despite the fact that you were

787
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: elected locally by your people, and you're gonna answer to

788
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: them that you can't move that monument that's been up

789
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: for fifty years, that was put in your community when

790
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: it was a far different community. Because that's the legislation.

791
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: That's exactly any any statute or monument that was placed

792
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: before nineteen seventy seven, it would be against the law

793
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: to remove that. That is no place for the Alabama legislature.

794
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: I don't care what they say. It is just not

795
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: a place that should be a local decision. I don't

796
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 1: think Congress should intervene in any of that, but historical

797
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: places where, in my opinion, my personal opinion, that's where

798
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: they ought to be. When you ran in Alabama, you

799
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,879
Speaker 1: really shocked the world by winning in such an overwhelmingly

800
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: Republican state. On the other hand, opponent was an alleged pedophile,

801
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: and he still got forty eight and a half percent

802
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: of the vote, including eighty percent of Evangelical Christians. He

803
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 1: won white women by twenty nine, even though there's compelling

804
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: evidence that when he was in his thirties he went

805
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: after a fourteen year old girl. How do you explain

806
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: I was going to say with that wind up? The

807
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 1: question is what up with that? Yeah, I I can't.

808
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: I can't completely explain that except for this, and this

809
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: is just my again trying to do a little bit

810
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: of a deep dive. And where we where things were.

811
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: We always believe that is the number of people in

812
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: the race went up, then things were going to tighten up.

813
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: We're gonna win that election. I'm absolutely convinced we were

814
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: gonna win that election. The worst day of the campaign

815
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: was when those those allegations came up, because this is

816
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: what I think that we're safe for you, Yes, absolutely absolutely.

817
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 1: You know my staff the campaign, they were all dancing

818
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: on tables and I said, get off, guys, because let

819
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: me tell you what's going to happen. Because now all

820
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: of a sudden, attention is going to be drawn. The

821
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: race is going to turn tribal. And I hate to

822
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: use that word. I don't like that work, but it's

823
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: so appropriate. And because now people started thinking about it,

824
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: in those terms. You know, in a lot of places

825
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: in America, not just in Alabama, but when you start

826
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: making allegations against somebody you've supported in the past, they

827
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: tend to support them. And then in a in an

828
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: era in which the leader of the United States has

829
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: said nothing but fake news, it's real easy to say,

830
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: that's fake news. They're just making this up. It's the

831
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: Washington Post. We don't like them. It's just the liberal

832
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: elitist um outsiders the same thing. And and all of

833
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: a sudden, people started looking at so many people tell me,

834
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: since the election, I say so many people. There were

835
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: a lot who said, look, I'm gonna give you a chance.

836
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 1: I want you all to work together. I didn't vote

837
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,240
Speaker 1: for you because I didn't want to lose the seat.

838
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: And that's what I think we have to overcome in America,

839
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: that we that we get away where that tribal party

840
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: means more than common decency, and that allegations that were

841
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: in very credible. I would have haken as a prosecutor

842
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: that case any day of the week, and and and

843
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: even on Sundays and and just gone to a grand

844
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: jury and a court with it and convicted him. But

845
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: it became very tribal. When that happened, we just had

846
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: to stay in our lane and talk about issues. What

847
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: you said was was just really extraordinary. I mean, you're

848
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 1: saying that we've become so tribal that even though there's

849
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: overwhelming evidence that your opponent was and is a pedophile,

850
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: it actually helped him and hurt you. Yes, yeah, it

851
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: drove up. Now, did I get more votes? Didn't drive

852
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: up some votes for US, Absolutely, but I think it

853
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: made the election more tribal and more people came out.

854
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: The more people that came out, it was going to

855
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 1: be more difficult for us UH to to win the election.

856
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: We had an energy of a base out there, and

857
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: we were getting more and more people. But when it

858
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: started becoming like that and and that was the focus,

859
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 1: whether it was true or not true, that those were

860
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 1: all issues, and a lot of folks in Alabama you

861
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: know it, it really didn't help. When Republican senators that

862
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: they thought they were helping me, I think some of

863
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: them when they were You're saying, well, we're gonna kick

864
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: him out of office if he comes up here, well

865
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: then there it gave some people a chance to think, Okay,

866
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: we'll get a do over. Let's go ahead and vote

867
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: from more because I don't want I don't want a Democrat,

868
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 1: and we'll get a do over because surely they're not

869
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: gonna seat him. Now. That is opposed to others like

870
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: Senator Shelby, who I thought was very very statesmanlike, who said, look,

871
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 1: I'm going to write in I cannot vote for this man,

872
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: and I'm going to write somebody. And he never said

873
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna expel him or do anything like that. That

874
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: was afi It certainly was. It was. And now I've

875
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: known Senator Shelby a long time when when he was

876
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: a Democrat, and I've known him since he was a

877
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: state senator in Tuscaloosa and I was a young Alabama

878
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: student there, so we go way back. But it was

879
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: a profile's encourage moment for let's talk about this tribalism

880
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: that you describe, Senator that very much, sir fist. During

881
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 1: your campaign, I did a six hour documentary series for

882
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: National Geographic. Did I mention? I did a six hours

883
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: I'm just learning about it, but a one was on

884
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 1: white working class anxiety. That was this on the sixth

885
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: hour documentary that you've done on white working class anxiety

886
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: in this country. And I'm curious if if you have

887
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: an explanation why we have become so tribalistic and is

888
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: there anything that can be done about Yeah, I think

889
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: there's a lot that can be done about it. Number

890
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 1: one is that people. I think if we've become tribalistic,

891
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: a lot what cause of social issues and they're deeply

892
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: held cultural beliefs and on those social issues, and you're

893
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,720
Speaker 1: not going to change a lot of people own those issues.

894
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: But what I think folks need to do more is

895
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: trying to focus on things we have in common and

896
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: they are even even on those issues, you can find

897
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: some common ground on things. But I think, you know,

898
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: for a lot to people, it's just not a question

899
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: of talking to people. I hear political people all the

900
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: time saying, well, we we lost touch because we didn't

901
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: talk to this group or that group. Now that's not

902
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: really yet. You didn't listen to them and and you

903
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: didn't hear their concerns and you didn't understand. And that's

904
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: what I think. One of the things that we did

905
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: we talked about the kitchen table issues, and that's what

906
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: really I think binds people in America right now, like

907
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: like their health care. Everybody wants to be you know,

908
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: have good health care for themselves and for their families.

909
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: I think wages and income. They see this incredible wage

910
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: gap that we've got right now and they don't quite

911
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: understand that, and they want to know how they can

912
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: have that better life. I think education for their children

913
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: is a driver as well. Um, And we've let politicians

914
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: so talk about those cultural issues that divide us that

915
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: they've dominated the political scene, at least in the South.

916
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: I can imagine, by the way, if Hillary Clinton we're

917
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 1: sitting here right now, she would say, well, I talked

918
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: about health care and education, jobs every damn day of

919
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: that campaign. Why did it work for you? And it

920
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: didn't work for me? Well, because she did. I don't

921
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: think that they listened as much of people coming back

922
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: to them. And at the end of the day, there

923
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: was also this incredible focus on the foibles of Donald Trump.

924
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: It was a personal attack on Donald Trump day in

925
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: and day out. I didn't do that with Roy Moore.

926
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: It would have been real easy for me to do that,

927
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: but I stayed on my message of issues. There were

928
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: other people attacking him. I didn't have to do that,

929
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: you know. But in fairness. I mean, Hillary Clinton was

930
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: being attacked relentlessly by Donald Trump. I get that. I

931
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: get that, but I think you lose the messages. And

932
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 1: so when you lose the messages among that political noise

933
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: like that on the personal attacks, then it gives people

934
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 1: they really get lost in what they're voting for, and

935
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: they're just going to vote for the personality sometimes. And

936
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: that's just a very simplistic way of looking at. All

937
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: I can tell you is that I wanted to stay

938
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 1: very focused. You only heard me really one time. You

939
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: have a speech, uh in which I really put what

940
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: I hope to be a stake in his heart. But

941
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: I really focused on issues, and I think that's I

942
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: think that's what public servants should be doing. You're reading

943
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: White Working Class by Joan Williams, which really was my

944
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: bible for this hour, and she talks a lot about

945
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: cultural condescension and cultural cluelessness. There seems to be a

946
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: basic lack of respect. I think, you know, and let's

947
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 1: be honest, the leader of this country is largely responsible

948
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: for the porsening of our discourse. Question. Uh So it

949
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,240
Speaker 1: goes both ways. But there's also a lot of coastal

950
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: elite snobbery towards people who really provide the backbone of

951
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: this country in many ways. And and that's my people.

952
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: That's where I grew up in the steel mills of

953
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: Fairfield and then the you know family in the in

954
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: the in dirt poor areas of Alabama and they absolute

955
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:01,919
Speaker 1: he feel that way. And by the way, I haven't

956
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: even started that one yet. It's so good. Yeah, and

957
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: it's a very quick read. My wife gave you. The

958
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 1: one I'm doing now is an interesting book. No, it's

959
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 1: it's it's called Harry and Arthur about Harry Truman and

960
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: Arthur Vanderberg, Republican senator and the Democratic president, and how

961
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: they put their politics aside in order to rebuild the

962
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: world after War two with the Martial Plan, and how

963
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: the United States of America became not only the economic

964
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: and global leader of the world, but the moral leader

965
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 1: of the world. And we're seeing a slide of that

966
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: a good bit right now. I'm going to great book.

967
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 1: So speaking of a foreign policy Vandenburg and Truman, I mean,

968
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 1: I know you're knew the Senate, but we didn't want

969
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: to ask you about Syria as well the US as

970
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: well as the British and the French conducted this very

971
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: limited one night operation that hit three targets related to

972
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: chemical weapons. But we basically accepted the status quo that

973
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 1: Aside is leading the country so long as he kills

974
00:53:55,840 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 1: people with guns and torture rather than chemicals. Yeah, exactly.

975
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 1: So do you think there's still a role for us

976
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: to push to get a side out. Do you think

977
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: we should get more involved somehow, or do you think

978
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 1: we should basically accept the way it is? You know,

979
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: I think that what's obviously a troubling thing is that

980
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 1: I'm not sure there's been a real good, serious strategy

981
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: for a long time. Do you I think I'm not sure.

982
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: His strategy was very as good. Things were moving in ways,

983
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: and you saw things happen in Libya and other places,

984
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: and it was an interesting changing world that we saw

985
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: in a matter of a few years, and and all

986
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,959
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I sade, I think if you saw

987
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: what happened, it would appear that Asad was going to

988
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: be just the next one to fall, And it didn't happen,

989
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: and so by that I think it took people a

990
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: little bit by surprise, and they he became entrenched. Um

991
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 1: I supported those strikes on the chemical weapons because it

992
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: is a problem. I don't know where the future is

993
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: at this point. I think that, uh, if the President

994
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: is going to do anything additional, uh, it's going to

995
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 1: appear that he is trying to regieme change. And I

996
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: think that that's gonna have to involve Congress. I think

997
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: there's a there's only so far that he can go

998
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: with that, and I think it's gonna be a tough situation.

999
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: We've got, you know, you know, we're we're in a

1000
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 1: kind of a proxy war with the Soviet Union right now,

1001
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: and uh, yeah, yeah whatever. I'm still you know, I'm

1002
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: still living in those old days and to me, to me,

1003
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:27,919
Speaker 1: they're almost one and the same, Okay. I mean when

1004
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: you really look at what happened with the Soviet Union

1005
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 1: and you look at what Putin is doing right now,

1006
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: you know, they're just it's just two p's in the pot.

1007
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: It's that we say in the South. Um. So, I

1008
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: think that that's gonna be a real challenge for America

1009
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: in the in the coming years. Are you gonna support

1010
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:48,359
Speaker 1: my pump has nomination here today? I haven't completely made

1011
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 1: up my mind. I Uh, I have got some grave

1012
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: concerns about some things that he's said and done in

1013
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: the past, which well, I think for the gay community,

1014
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: for the Muslim community, it gives the those immunities a

1015
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: real sense of that they would have a Secretary of

1016
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: State that is not looking out for their best interest.

1017
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: On the other hand, I think his role as CIA director,

1018
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: there's not been anything that would disqualify. I met with

1019
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: him the other day, Uh did oh, yeah, absolutely, well,

1020
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: he had a I'd like to kind of keep that

1021
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 1: a little bit more private, but he was consistent with

1022
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 1: his public testimony. He made very once. I think, uh,

1023
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 1: you have to take somebody at their word to some extent,

1024
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:37,720
Speaker 1: his comments to me were reassuring about that that doesn't

1025
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: always carry the ball, but they were certainly reassuring. And

1026
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: I think, you know, sometimes when you say things in

1027
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:48,720
Speaker 1: a political sense and you change jobs, it makes a difference,

1028
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 1: you know, for trails they do. It's it's crazy, but

1029
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: you know, I was a prosecutor, and then I was

1030
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: a defense lawyer, and then I was a prosecutor again,

1031
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: and that was so people would say the same thing

1032
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 1: about me, the things I said about the government when

1033
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 1: I was defending somebody, and then all of a sudden

1034
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 1: I became the government, so I put a lot of

1035
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 1: things in a big context. And we'll see. I'm working

1036
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: with the staff and we're trying to do a little bit, uh,

1037
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 1: And I'll have my mind made up in the next

1038
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: probably twenty four hours or so, if not less. But

1039
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: it's a it's a tough that's that's probably the toughest

1040
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: vote I'll take. Will you call us and let us

1041
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: know so we can update this podcast, of course, will Thursday. Um,

1042
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: I know we're almost out of time, but I have

1043
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: to ask you about this ground swell of opposition we've

1044
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 1: seen from primarily young people about gun violence in this country. Senator,

1045
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 1: I know you're a staunch proponent of the Second Amendment.

1046
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: You're yourself you're a hunter, um, but I'm curious if

1047
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 1: you think anything at all can be done at the

1048
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: federal level to decrease gun violence, and what do you

1049
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:54,439
Speaker 1: think would be the most effective way to do that. Well.

1050
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: I think there can be some things, but there's a

1051
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 1: difference when can something be done and will it be done?

1052
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 1: I think the will it be done is a lot

1053
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: harder question because of the obvious political I think there's

1054
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 1: a lot of things that can be done. In fact,

1055
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: I may gave my maiden speech on gun violence. Um,

1056
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: you want to raise the age. I wanted to raise

1057
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 1: the age twenty one. I want to do something about

1058
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 1: universal background checks? What about semi automatic weapons? What about

1059
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 1: are fifteen? I mean you're a hunter. Is any hunter

1060
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 1: worth his or her salt going to use the semi

1061
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: automatic weapon? No? Yes, yes? Really? Oh absolutely. The first

1062
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: dear rifle I bought. See. One of the problems, Katie

1063
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: is people don't really understand the terminology. The first dear

1064
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: huh rifle I brought was a browning Um Safari three

1065
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: o eight. It has five rounds. It's a semi automatic

1066
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: fired and it and it comes out. I've got a

1067
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: nice scope on it. Great dear rifle. That's different than

1068
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: in Les Okay. That's that's different. But people have to

1069
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: also understand that in this day and age, there's a

1070
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: culture in the South in a lot of places that

1071
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 1: it's not just a question of hunting. People like to

1072
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: take and shoot. They go to target practice. I do

1073
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: that with my son. I don't Every time I shoot

1074
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: a gun is not at a deer or a turkey

1075
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 1: or a bird. It is I sometimes will go and

1076
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: we'll just shoot at a paper target. And I don't

1077
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: think that right now there is any appetite. And I

1078
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 1: think about talking about banning a R fifteens is a

1079
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 1: nonstarter and it causes people to go into corners. And

1080
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 1: so what I did in my maiden speech, which I

1081
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: thought was something that was important for a son of

1082
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: the South, to start talking about a gun owner and

1083
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: somebody that shoots guns regularly and has a safe that's

1084
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 1: got a lot of them in there, to talk about

1085
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: things that I think Kennan should be done. Raising the age.

1086
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: You know it's twenty one for pistols anyway, why not

1087
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: do that for semi automatic weapons? And that it seems

1088
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: insane to me. It's I don't know the answer why

1089
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 1: there's one and not the other. I think that you

1090
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: can do universal background checks, makes some exceptions uh to

1091
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: that that I think would be legitimate, but I think

1092
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 1: can do those. I think that there's I want to

1093
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 1: close the boyfriend loophole. Uh. Those are things that and

1094
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: we took some steps with trying to fix the next

1095
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 1: system to make it better and and when and a

1096
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: big step was getting away with the Dicky Amendment that

1097
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: would allow the system is the background checks, exact records.

1098
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: But we also got rid of the the amendment that

1099
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 1: will now allow the CDC to do some research on

1100
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 1: gun violence, which is insane by the way, they cannot

1101
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: study it as a public health epidemical issue and because

1102
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 1: of Congress and now we've removed that. Now it hadn't

1103
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: been funded to do that, but at least we've removed that.

1104
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: And Katie, that was a big deal. That was fault

1105
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: so bad, and that was a big step I think

1106
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 1: for Second Amendment guys to to step up and do so.

1107
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: I'm hopeful that down the road that we continue to

1108
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 1: have this And that's what I keep wanting to people

1109
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 1: to talk about as gun violence, not gun control. Let's

1110
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 1: talk about gun violence and suicides, uh, and accidents and

1111
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: homicides and the things that we can do to stop

1112
01:00:57,240 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: the number of deaths that result from a trigger being

1113
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: old on a weapon. So this week President Trump invited

1114
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 1: President Macron of France to the United States for a

1115
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 1: state dinner and bringing with tradition, he invited no Democratic

1116
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: members of Congress and no journalists to the dinner. Do

1117
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 1: you think that was a mistake? Absolutely? How can you

1118
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:16,439
Speaker 1: how can you talk How can you stand in front

1119
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 1: of all the members of Congress at the State of

1120
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: the Union and talking about working together and finding common

1121
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: ground if you don't adhere to those traditions. I think

1122
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: it was a huge mistake on his part. Okay, another

1123
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: thing that's in the news. The chair of your party

1124
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 1: filed a lawsuit against the Russian government Wiki Weeks and

1125
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign for conspiring to hurt Hillary Clinton by

1126
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: hacking the Democratic Party and disseminating Stone emails, Stone material.

1127
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 1: What's your reaction to that. Do you think the lawsuits

1128
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: the right thing to do? Don't think the lawsuit was

1129
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 1: the right thing to do. I haven't taught to Tom

1130
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 1: Perez since since he filed it. I don't think it's

1131
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 1: the right thing to do. I think he keeps it

1132
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 1: stirred up, and there's plenty of things out there right

1133
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 1: now that are working its way through that. Sooner or later,

1134
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 1: the public is going to know. Why do you think

1135
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 1: he did it? I don't know the answer to that.

1136
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: He you know, what I read was to try to

1137
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 1: preserve some right, but I'm not I'm not exactly sure.

1138
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: It's just not something that I felt like would be

1139
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: appropriate to do. There's a lot going on right now

1140
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 1: that it's gonna come out one way. I know, it's

1141
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 1: basically the statute of limitations is going to run and

1142
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 1: they need to file the lawsuit now or they're gonna

1143
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 1: lose their opportunity. And that they were, you know, hurt

1144
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: by this conspiracy in sixteen and also to prevent similar

1145
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 1: meddling in eighteen, they needed to kind of lay down

1146
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: a market. Well, that's where Congress ought to be acting, Okay,

1147
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 1: that that that's not up to a civil lawsuit to

1148
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: do that, and that lawsuit won't wind its way through

1149
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: the courts in time to have any effect on I

1150
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: think that's up to Congress, and people in both houses

1151
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: are now looking at the Russian meddling. I don't think

1152
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: the administration has done enough, but they are beginning to

1153
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 1: come around and start doing things now. And it is

1154
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: probably one of the hottest topics up on the Hill

1155
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 1: today because it is a very very serious problem that

1156
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 1: is going to continue unless we take some serious action.

1157
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: As someone who's spent his entire career dealing with lawyer

1158
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 1: years and with law enforcement and the FBI, what do

1159
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: you think of James Comey, Well, I have I have

1160
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: a lot of respect for James Comey. I did. I

1161
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 1: think he made some some mistakes. I'm not uh one

1162
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: of those Democrats who you know his flip flopped. I

1163
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 1: thought it was a mistake when he released the letter

1164
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 1: that he did eleven days before the election. Uh, I

1165
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 1: would have I would have reopened the investigation and just

1166
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: going about my work. Uh. You you don't try to

1167
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: do something. Would not have announced it. No, absolutely not.

1168
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: You dead. That's just not something that you do eleven

1169
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 1: days before a very high before any election, because whether

1170
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 1: it would or would not, the chances are it was

1171
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 1: going to affect the election. Whether it would have changed

1172
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 1: the outcome was not the determining uh factor. It should

1173
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 1: not have been released, and my view should not have

1174
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: been released. I was not persuaded by his public comments

1175
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 1: or his book about why he did it. Was interesting

1176
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: to me. You know, he kept saying that the FBI

1177
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 1: is above politics, and yet he did concede that he

1178
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 1: was probably influenced by his suspicion that Hillary Clinton would

1179
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: be elected. It was going to be elected, and it

1180
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 1: would taint not only her presidency, which is fair, but

1181
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 1: also taint the FBI and him for withholding it and

1182
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 1: that was just it just should have you just let

1183
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 1: the chips fall with a gonna fall, So that should

1184
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: not have been done. Having said that, though, I think

1185
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 1: that all he went through with the president that no,

1186
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 1: no FBI director should have gone through. You should not

1187
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 1: be demanded to take a loyalty test because the director

1188
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: of the FBI works for the people and for the

1189
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 1: Justice Department, not for an individual who happened to assume

1190
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 1: the presidency. So with things that occurred afterwards, I think

1191
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: he has Uh done exactly of the right things. I

1192
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 1: mean in that respect, I have a lot of respectful

1193
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 1: people make mistakes, and that happens. But I think he

1194
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: got uh. I don't think it was a good, good thing.

1195
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 1: What happened to him and the way it happened. And

1196
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: do you think when all of a sudden done that

1197
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 1: Hillary's biggest flaw was that the campaign became too personal

1198
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 1: and she attacked Trump too much. Well, I think she

1199
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 1: I think that, And I also think she took for

1200
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: granted a lot of votes in Ohio and Michigan and

1201
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 1: Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and some of those places, and she

1202
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 1: started focusing Uh, he started reading too many of the

1203
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,479
Speaker 1: headlines that I'm gonna win. And so she thought, well,

1204
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 1: let's just really go to Arizona. Let's go to these

1205
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 1: other places, because if I can win there, it'll be

1206
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:36,959
Speaker 1: a big win. Um. By the time that election came

1207
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 1: on that Tuesday, I was not I from my standpoint,

1208
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 1: I was beginning. Now, my wife will tell you I'm

1209
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 1: always the pessimist when it comes to my juries, being

1210
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: out and everything else. But I told the Downtown Democratic

1211
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: Club in Birmingham on the Friday before the election that

1212
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 1: they should not be celebrating that there was something out

1213
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 1: there in America that that Donald Trump was tapping. And

1214
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 1: it was a frustration that and people wanted to be heard,

1215
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 1: that they didn't feel like that they're being heard, and

1216
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 1: and I was very worried about that over the sense

1217
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 1: of the weekend, and I just felt like the campaign

1218
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: had not paid enough attention the folks that might make

1219
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 1: a difference. On the day of the election, I was

1220
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: texting with some people very high in the in the campaign, uh,

1221
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 1: and they told me it was gonna be tight. And

1222
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 1: I looked at my wife. I said, this is not

1223
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: gonna happen. Just be ready, It's not gonna happen. And

1224
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 1: and it was. It was. It was a pretty depressing

1225
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: night for us. But at the same time, it also

1226
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:35,439
Speaker 1: from from our standpoint, my wife and I standpoint, Louis

1227
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 1: and I, it really kind of spurred us on for

1228
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 1: this race and what we did, because you know, elections matter,

1229
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 1: and elections have consequences. And as you saw the Women's

1230
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 1: March and you saw things build, you know, it was

1231
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,720
Speaker 1: we've everybody felt like it's time to get back to

1232
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 1: the decency, the honorable thing to do, to give people

1233
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: a voice. Uh that in Alabama had not had a

1234
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: voice before, or at least in a long time. I

1235
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: didn't think. And so there was, you know, their silver

1236
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 1: linings to everything. And I think that now we're gonna

1237
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 1: see people energized. As as polarized as the country is,

1238
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 1: I think people are energized to make a difference. Do

1239
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 1: you think the Democrats are going to take the House

1240
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 1: in the Senate in two thousand eighteen. I have no idea,

1241
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: no idea. All right, when let's jump ahead to and

1242
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 1: your friend Joe Biden. You guys are big buddies. Now now, Katie,

1243
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 1: you know I'm not supposed to talk. I'm here in

1244
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: my Senate office building, so let's don't let's just don't

1245
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 1: talk about politics. Let's talk about policy, and let's talk

1246
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 1: about energizing people in America that come out and do

1247
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 1: the right things in the electoral project. You got to

1248
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 1: know Joe Biden because you worked with him in what Well, Yeah,

1249
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 1: I met Joe when I was in law school actually

1250
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 1: in the seventies, and we just stayed friends, and I'm very,

1251
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 1: very fond to him. I think he is one of

1252
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: this country's greatest leaders. He can talk to people as well,

1253
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 1: and I think that that's a very important thing. He's

1254
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:59,480
Speaker 1: from Scranton, from Scranton, Pennsylvania, and he talks to folks,

1255
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 1: and he talked to but to working cast folks. And

1256
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 1: when he quotes his dad, who you know, had had

1257
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 1: a working class guy, um, people respond to that. I

1258
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 1: think Joe and and there's maybe and there's others too

1259
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: that have that ability. But I think that that's the

1260
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 1: kind of thing we need back in the Senate, in

1261
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 1: the House and the presidency. Um. In conclusion, your term

1262
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 1: wraps up at the end of or actually the beginning

1263
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 1: of the first the first turner, Well, let me ask this,

1264
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 1: let me ask this a different way as a Senator,

1265
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 1: what do you hope to accomplish in this term? Well,

1266
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 1: what do you hope to be able to deliver for

1267
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 1: the people of Alabama. I'm hoping I can deliver a

1268
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 1: number of things. I'm hoping I can I can help

1269
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 1: save our community hospitals. We're losing them, our rural hospitals

1270
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 1: left and right. I'm hoping I can help with a

1271
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:53,679
Speaker 1: health care system that will deliver healthcare throughout the state.

1272
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: I'm hoping I can work with some of the poorer

1273
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:59,680
Speaker 1: areas in the state where we have some serious sanitation

1274
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: issue us. I'm hoping that I continue to help attract

1275
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 1: business and industry to the state of Alabama. You know,

1276
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:09,679
Speaker 1: working with Senator Shelby and others, We've got a growing

1277
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 1: economy in Alabama and Mobile and in Montgomery and Birmingham

1278
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 1: and Huntsville. But I want to grow that economy in

1279
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 1: the rural areas as well. So I'm hoping that I

1280
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 1: can convince people that, you know, the federal government is

1281
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 1: not a bad thing. For every dollar that we send up,

1282
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 1: we got a couple of bucks back, and they're good

1283
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,599
Speaker 1: programs there. It's Medicaid, it's Medicare. I want to make

1284
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 1: sure that I save that for my folks because it's

1285
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:36,200
Speaker 1: so important. We have a very unhealthy state. We have

1286
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 1: a poor state. I'd like to see the income go up.

1287
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 1: I'd like to help with a workforce development that's gonna

1288
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 1: help people in the twenty one century, that that if

1289
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 1: you don't go to college, you don't get a four

1290
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 1: year degree, you can go to a community college and

1291
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: you can get a trade and you can get a

1292
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 1: job at the new Toyota plant and makes fifty to

1293
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars a year and help build that

1294
01:09:56,520 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 1: middle class back that is shrinking mightily. I think Congress

1295
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 1: has an opportunity to to do a lot of things

1296
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 1: like that. We've got to save those programs that are

1297
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 1: not just safety nets, but that are vital to so

1298
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,720
Speaker 1: many people in my state, and also do those kind

1299
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 1: of things around our defense system to protect the country.

1300
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,760
Speaker 1: That's also good for Alabama's economy. I mean, I didn't

1301
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,560
Speaker 1: vote to shut the government down. I was one of

1302
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,759
Speaker 1: the few Democrats who didn't do that because a shutdown

1303
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 1: and government would have hurt the state of Alabama's economy

1304
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: a lot. We have too many we have a lot

1305
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 1: of government jobs that are dependent on on that coming in.

1306
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 1: So those are the kind of things that I hope

1307
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,040
Speaker 1: that I can accomplish or at least start the process

1308
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 1: of accomplishing. UH. For the country. Senator. You know, people

1309
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: I think are so disillusion and so disheartened. And is

1310
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:54,520
Speaker 1: there anything you, the young senator, relatively young senator from Alabama,

1311
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: that you can do to restore people's faith in institution

1312
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,439
Speaker 1: like the federal government. Well, you know, look, I'm not

1313
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:05,600
Speaker 1: a young senator. I'm a new senator, but I'm not

1314
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:11,040
Speaker 1: a young I am the junior senator. UM. But I'm gonna,

1315
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna. You know, I think my role in in

1316
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: part is to continue to talk to people and and

1317
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 1: listen to people, and to talk about those institutions and

1318
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:22,959
Speaker 1: the rule of law. I think I bring an interesting

1319
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 1: perspective having done those old clan cases, having done those things,

1320
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 1: having been in the Justice Department and then out and

1321
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 1: then back in and then back out, and now and

1322
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,719
Speaker 1: my role as a U S Senator, UM, I want

1323
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 1: people to talk about the rule of law and respect

1324
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 1: the rule of law, and I want people to respect

1325
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 1: the institutions of government and to make sure that we

1326
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 1: can always have we have disagreements or how we get

1327
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 1: to a certain place, but we can also find that

1328
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 1: common ground that we can get to that place and

1329
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 1: everybody will be satisfied. I think that's a role that

1330
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 1: I can can do. I think our election, in part

1331
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:00,519
Speaker 1: sent that message. And I've had so many people tell

1332
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:04,160
Speaker 1: me I want you guys to work together. Send this message,

1333
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 1: not just not just to Chuck Schumer and the Democratic Party,

1334
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 1: send it over to McConnell as well. You guys need

1335
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 1: to work together. And I've told people it's one thing

1336
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:16,720
Speaker 1: to talk about reaching across the aisle, which is what

1337
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do consistently and whatever I do, um,

1338
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: but in order to move forward, you've got to have

1339
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 1: somebody who's willing to accept that reach and work with

1340
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:29,479
Speaker 1: you and not just try to yank you across the

1341
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:33,880
Speaker 1: other side. It will be tough with the elections coming up,

1342
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:36,519
Speaker 1: but I think that that's my role to say, Look,

1343
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: we can be decent to each other, we can care

1344
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 1: about each other. We can make sure that everyone has

1345
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: the kind of justice that those four little girls got

1346
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 1: uh with those convictions. We can do that for for DOCCA,

1347
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:50,720
Speaker 1: we can do that for workers, we can do that

1348
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 1: for business leaders. None of those are inconsistent. They are

1349
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: not inconsistent with the American dream. And if we can

1350
01:12:57,160 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 1: do that then I think will be in in really good.

1351
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 1: But it's it's not going to be easy to get

1352
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:05,680
Speaker 1: there with the way things are now. See, you were

1353
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:07,639
Speaker 1: so inspiring and then you kind of were a debbut

1354
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 1: down at it. Yes, yes, yes, that's the old pessimist

1355
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:17,719
Speaker 1: sneak in there. That's right. It's the it's the challenges

1356
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 1: and we we you've got to at the end of

1357
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 1: the day though, it's the glass half full, and that's

1358
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 1: way I'll do it up here. Thank you, Thank you

1359
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 1: so much. Great to be here in your office as well,

1360
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:33,679
Speaker 1: and congratulations, Thank you. I appreciate thanks so much. Guys.

1361
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:38,000
Speaker 1: Thank you very much to Senator Doug Jones and his

1362
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 1: entire staff for hosting us this week in Washington, d C.

1363
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: Also thank you to our traveling pod squad. That's our

1364
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 1: producer Gianna Palmer and our audio engineer Jared O'Connell, who

1365
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:51,840
Speaker 1: was very sweet and helped carrying my bag, which was

1366
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,680
Speaker 1: really overstuffed and super heavy. Thank you, Jerry. I can

1367
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:58,000
Speaker 1: attest to that anyway. Nora Richie is our assistant producer

1368
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:00,760
Speaker 1: Beth de Mos, Emily Beina, and Alice breast Nick make

1369
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 1: Magic Happen over at Katie Curic Media, and Mark Phillips

1370
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 1: wrote our theme music. Bryan and I are the show's

1371
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 1: executive producers. You can find me on social media under

1372
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 1: Katie Curict, Brian on a plane snooping at what podcasts

1373
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:17,880
Speaker 1: you may be downloading. I tweet from the handle at

1374
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: Goldsmith b and remember to call in with your tales

1375
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 1: of tech addiction at nine to nine to four four

1376
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 1: six three seven. You can also email us as always

1377
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:31,160
Speaker 1: at comments at kurk podcast dot com. And while you've

1378
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 1: got your typing fingers warmed up, we'd love it if

1379
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:36,480
Speaker 1: you would leave us a review over at Apple Podcasts,

1380
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 1: and please subscribe to the show too and tell your friends.

1381
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 1: By all means, thanks so much for listening, and we'll

1382
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 1: be back here next week