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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the host, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Wednesday, December third, and yes,

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Speaker 2: we have a stacked night of headlines, lots of things

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Speaker 2: to uncover tonight. Listen. The doctor linked to the overdose

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Speaker 2: death of our beloved friend, Star Matthew Perry learned his

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Speaker 2: fate today and it speaks to an entire ring of

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Speaker 2: things that I think are seeing their moment. Also, in

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Speaker 2: breaking news, shocking and disturbing images have been released about

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Speaker 2: the Jeffrey Epstein Island. I need you guys to see this.

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Speaker 2: Please log on look in the pictures if you haven't

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Speaker 2: seen it yet. There's literally a dentist chair in a

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Speaker 2: room with a massage table behind it. What does this

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Speaker 2: all mean? Also, the trial for accused wife killer Brian

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Speaker 2: Walsh continues with some really crucial physical evidence revealed today

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Speaker 2: in court. Needless to say, body has been following this

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Speaker 2: very very closely. Plus, we have our most favorite prosecutor

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Speaker 2: here with us Jarrett Farantino, as you will always be

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Speaker 2: on Wednesdays to discuss all of your big burning questions.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for the talkbacks. We're going to try to

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Speaker 2: get to all of them in all of the big

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Speaker 2: cases that we've been talking about all week, Luigimi and

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Speaker 2: Gione back in court. We have questions also, why hasn't

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Speaker 2: David the pop star been named as suspects or brought

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Speaker 2: into custody or frankly will he ever? And also, let's

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Speaker 2: be real, we want to be able to talk about

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Speaker 2: any of the questions that you have regarding the Rebecca

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Speaker 2: Park case that we've been following so very closely. And

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Speaker 2: if you have any other prosecutor type legal questions for Jared,

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Speaker 2: you obviously can call us at eight eight h ts

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Speaker 2: three to one Crime, or you can leave us a

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Speaker 2: talk back on the iHeartRadio app, or you could always

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Speaker 2: hit us up at our socials at True Crime Tonight's

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Speaker 2: show on Instagram and TikTok, or at True Crime Tonight

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Speaker 2: on Facebook. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I'm here with Courtney

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Speaker 2: Armstrong and body move in and look, we have a

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Speaker 2: full house tonight. We have Adam and Sam in the

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Speaker 2: control room, and of course producer Taha with us looking

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Speaker 2: all handsome and ready to rumble. Let's do it, body,

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Speaker 2: where should we begin. Let's talk about Matthew Perry. Let's

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Speaker 2: talk about Matthew Perry.

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Speaker 3: So the doctor who illegally supplied Matthew Perry with the

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Speaker 3: ketamine he was sentenced today to thirty months in prison

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Speaker 3: for his role in the Actress twenty twenty three death.

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Speaker 3: For those who aren't familiar, actor Matthew Perry was best

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Speaker 3: known for playing Chandler Bing on one of our favorite shows,

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Speaker 3: right like of All Time Friends. He had long battled addiction.

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Speaker 3: It was very public. He had recently kind of been

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Speaker 3: receiving ketamine therapy and started to reach out to this

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Speaker 3: doctor to get it legally supplied to him, and this

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Speaker 3: doctor agreed, And this doctor now has been sentenced. So

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Speaker 3: doctor Salvador Placentia exploited actor Matthew Perry's vulnerability by repeatedly

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Speaker 3: supplying him ketymine despite knowing the actor's history.

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Speaker 2: So that's what happened. By the way, the ketamine was

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Speaker 2: being used for therapeutic reasons, right, So sometimes ketamine is

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Speaker 2: used in like club environments and environments. So we believe

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Speaker 2: in Matthew Perry's case, he was you know, sober and

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Speaker 2: was dealing with addiction and was using ketamine as many

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Speaker 2: do in specifically Los Angeles, where they you know, it's

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Speaker 2: a means to kind of keep them healing from addiction.

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Speaker 3: So this I know couple people that are in ketymine

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Speaker 3: therapy and they say it's quite.

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Speaker 2: People swear by it, and it's been apparently very helpful

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Speaker 2: with post traumatic stress for multiple scorocys who were returning

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Speaker 2: for more. I don't know, I've you know, not my

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Speaker 2: personal I don't know enough about it. But who's to say.

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Speaker 2: But in Matthew's case, this was a part of what

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Speaker 2: he thought was his recovery. Perhaps, But this doctor said

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Speaker 2: something so horrifying. Quote, I wonder how much this was

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Speaker 2: caught on text, by the way, I wonder how much

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Speaker 2: this moron will pay. That's what the former doctor said.

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Speaker 2: Now again he had to face the music today, this

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Speaker 2: doctor in the courtroom where he had to face Mom,

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Speaker 2: Matthew Perry's mother to I who had to actually look

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Speaker 2: him in the eye and let him see her complete devastation.

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Speaker 2: And also his sister spoke up just basically saying that

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Speaker 2: you know, you weren't trying to help him, you were

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Speaker 2: physically exploiting him and ultimately did lead to one of

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Speaker 2: our most beloved human's death. Right, Like, everybody loves Matthew

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Speaker 2: Perry name, raise your hand if you don't love Matthew Perry.

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Speaker 2: Everybody loves Matthew Perry. He's everybody's friend.

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Speaker 3: Well, and you know his is married to Keith Morrison.

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Speaker 3: Morrison also by the way right True Crime Royalty, and

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Speaker 3: you know that's kind of a strange connection. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: like you know, he had apologized to his mother. He

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Speaker 3: did say that terrible text. You know, I wonder how

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Speaker 3: much this moron will pay. Doctor Salvador Placentia did apologize

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Speaker 3: in court today to the family, which I acknowledged. He

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Speaker 3: acknowledged he failed after the actor Matthew Perry and his family,

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Speaker 3: you know, and again he referenced this text. Federal prosecutors

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Speaker 3: noted that the doctor had supplied actor Matthew Perry with

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Speaker 3: twenty vials of ketymine lozenges and syringes between late September

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Speaker 3: and mid October, So in the period of you know,

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Speaker 3: one month, he gave him twenty vials of I don't

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Speaker 3: know what's normal.

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Speaker 2: Well this is not.

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Speaker 4: This is well above and well beyond according to the information.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it did.

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Speaker 4: It started out as therapeutic, which does work wonderfully for

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Speaker 4: people who are being treated sure by doctors who know

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Speaker 4: what's going on. And then, you know, being a lifelong addict,

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Speaker 4: it seemed like it was a slippery slope for him.

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Speaker 4: And he then turned to this doctor Placentia who gave

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Speaker 4: gave this medicines through unsafe methods, and you know, it

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Speaker 4: was illegal what he was doing, and the ketamine should

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Speaker 4: not have been given to him in those doses or

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Speaker 4: in that manner.

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Speaker 2: And this guy gets thirty months. To me, this seems

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Speaker 2: like a really low blow. And let's remember the entire ring,

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Speaker 2: the Queen of Ketamine as she's now known as, you know,

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Speaker 2: really the henchman of this whole clan. She hasn't been

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Speaker 2: sentenced yet. I don't believe, right, she hasn't. Thirty months

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Speaker 2: is a walk, it is? What is it to give me?

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Speaker 2: Tell that to Keith Morrison again, Keith Morrison, if you

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Speaker 2: don't know who that is. On a cold wintry night,

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Speaker 2: he's like the distinguished, gray haired dateline expert who's the

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Speaker 2: voice comforts all of us. And I feel like I've

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Speaker 2: watched him on every episode and he's been annihilated. This

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Speaker 2: is I've never.

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Speaker 3: Heard anybody say anything bad about Keith Morrison.

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Speaker 2: Because we all love He's an American treasure. He is

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Speaker 2: an American treasure, right, as was Matthew Perry. Correct.

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Speaker 3: I mean we all you know, we're all children of

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Speaker 3: the nineties, right, we all grew up in the Friends

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Speaker 3: era that you know, we're the same kind of age exactly,

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Speaker 3: you know, and you know, it was just really really devastating.

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Speaker 3: The court documents show that he was chart met. Matthew

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Speaker 3: Perry paid fifty seven thousand dollars for these these drugs,

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Speaker 3: So that is exactly how much that moron would pay

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Speaker 3: Doctor H and.

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Speaker 4: I act to believe that it was thirty months, given

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Speaker 4: that he was up for a maximum sentence of forty

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Speaker 4: years for his plea agreement.

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Speaker 2: Thirty months is a walk in the park and by

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Speaker 2: the way, but I was still living in la prior

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Speaker 2: to the fires. I lived very nearby where it did

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Speaker 2: really where the country club was not super near nearby

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Speaker 2: enough that I kind of know the area where Matthew

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Speaker 2: Perry was allegedly living at the time he was infamously

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Speaker 2: in his hot to he was putting at bat signals.

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Speaker 2: So he was an addict who was using ketamine, you know,

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Speaker 2: allegedly for healing purposes, but was probably down a very,

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Speaker 2: very slippery slope. That is the danger zone here where

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Speaker 2: a celebrity and cash and greed far out weigh a

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Speaker 2: doctor's oath to do right by humans to help them heal.

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Speaker 2: And this is egregious. Thirty months is a joke. My

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Speaker 2: two cents, My two cents. No, I totally agree on it,

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Speaker 2: but you're not gonna get an argument for me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard not to well listen, we want to

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Speaker 4: share that news and of course as the other people

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Speaker 4: who are involved in this ring come up to trials,

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Speaker 4: we will keep you informed in the meantime.

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Speaker 2: This is true crime. Tonight. We are on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 4: I'm Courtney Armstrong and I'm so happy to be here

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Speaker 4: with Stephanie Laideker and Body Movin and we have been

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Speaker 4: talking about the doctor who illegally supplied Matthew Perry ketamine

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Speaker 4: and he was sinced thirty months. If you have any

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Speaker 4: thoughts on that. Collectively, I think it was unanimous. We

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Speaker 4: think the sentence is far too late. But give us

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Speaker 4: a call eight A eight three to one crime or

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Speaker 4: hit us on the talkbacks. And I was gonna move

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Speaker 4: to Epstein if that works for Oh, I is dying

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Speaker 4: to photo talk about this.

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Speaker 2: Has everybody seen the photographs, so there was this new jump.

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Speaker 2: Courtney will fill us in. If you haven't seen the photographs,

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Speaker 2: definitely check them out online because this will make a

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Speaker 2: lot more sense if you do.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So these newly released photos as well as videos from

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Speaker 4: Jeffrey Ebstein's private island, they were reveal glimpses of the

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Speaker 4: estate's interior and this is being released as congressional pressure

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Speaker 4: intensifies for the full release of the Epstein files. As

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Speaker 4: a reminder, Jeffrey Ebstein, He's decease, was a convicted sex

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Speaker 4: offender and financier who used his private island as the

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Speaker 4: center of many alleged crimes involving underaged girls. And since

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Speaker 4: sex offender Jeffrey Ebstein's twenty nineteen dea in federal custody,

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Speaker 4: lawmakers as well as the public have pushed for transparency

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Speaker 4: and perhaps this is one step in the correct direction.

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Speaker 2: We are sixteen days away, so again the countdown continues this,

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Speaker 2: you know, dump of photographs. We're pretty staggering and I

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Speaker 2: think wildly disturbing. I had never seen any of these before.

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Speaker 2: So it's a little inside look and just the premise.

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Speaker 2: You see the beautiful pool, you see some of the rooms,

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Speaker 2: and then you also see your room where there's an

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Speaker 2: actual dentist chair, like a dentist chair, an actual chair

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Speaker 2: that you the light at the dent bud. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: like nothing other than that. Right behind it is like

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Speaker 2: a weird massage table. And then there are masks like

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Speaker 2: the kind that you put on your face of weird men's.

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Speaker 2: These are men. This is the kind of thing that

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Speaker 2: you see in the scariest movie, as if there are

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Speaker 2: some kind of experiments happening there. And again I did

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Speaker 2: just watch the Diddy doc I have remembered back in

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Speaker 2: the Epstein early days where the initial allegation, or at

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Speaker 2: least the chatter or what's the word you use, bodies

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Speaker 2: scuttle butt. The scuttle butt was that, you know, every

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Speaker 2: inch of this island was covered with cameras and that

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Speaker 2: everything that was being done here was being filmed, potentially

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Speaker 2: for blackmail against very powerful people in the world. Policy leaders,

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Speaker 2: think tank leaders, et cetera. Which is why it's so

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Speaker 2: important because that would affect us real time, right, But

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Speaker 2: there has also been that chatter that there are even

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Speaker 2: scarier things that were happening there. You see it, and

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Speaker 2: by when I say that, that where everyone's brain should

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Speaker 2: go to. As young girls are being drugged. Listen, we

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Speaker 2: know they're being raped, we know they're being trafficked. That's

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Speaker 2: what Gailaine Maxwell was actually sentenced for. Hopefully one time

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Speaker 2: soon we'll see the transcripts from that grand jury testimony. However,

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Speaker 2: what if it's even worse. What if there's a universe

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Speaker 2: where young girls are being lured there, they're being drugged,

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Speaker 2: they're being used, and they're being displayed in experiments. Why

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Speaker 2: in the world would there be a dentist chair for

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Speaker 2: a young girl to be in, for men to put

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Speaker 2: masks on around her.

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Speaker 3: Why we've got listen, My mind goes to like the

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Speaker 3: most disgusting places, like when I like experimentation of some kind,

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Speaker 3: Are they like these masks? I'm trying to figure out

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Speaker 3: if they look like somebody? Can I recognize any of

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Speaker 3: the faces because they're very or neat well, and they're

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Speaker 3: also very stylistic.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. I've been trying to figure out like what

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Speaker 4: I feel like. There's symbology a lot too. But what

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Speaker 4: I remember that Stanley Cooper movie.

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Speaker 2: There's that Stanley Cooper movie called Eyes White Shot that

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Speaker 2: Tom Cruise start in, I believe with Nicole Kidman back

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Speaker 2: in the day, Adam, I feel like you're going to

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Speaker 2: know the answer here, so jump in if you do.

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Speaker 2: It's it's older movie. I remember. I've seen it. I

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Speaker 2: kind of like dozed off during it, but then I

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Speaker 2: watched it again with different eyes because it's been alleged

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Speaker 2: that much of those scenes that were shot in that

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Speaker 2: movie had to be removed because there were two close

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Speaker 2: to real things that happen. Is that accurate?

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Speaker 6: That is accurate and it's not neither here nor there.

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Speaker 6: But Stanley Kubrick died before the movie was released officially.

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Speaker 2: So and it was supposed to be a little in

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Speaker 2: the dark world of what we're seeing secret society, secret

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Speaker 2: society or numnati I hate to even say the word,

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Speaker 2: and somehow that was going down or a version of that,

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Speaker 2: similar to the movie Blink Twice that we saw Zoe

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Speaker 2: Kravitz put out a year ago that she claimed was

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Speaker 2: based on true events that she had heard from close friends.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean? What are we even seeing here?

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Speaker 2: What we are getting dumbed is information that's not files.

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Speaker 2: These are photographs and videos that are harrowing. Honestly, can

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Speaker 2: you imagine being a young woman fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, nineteen

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Speaker 2: years old and being asked to be put in a

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Speaker 2: dentist chair as pictured, and then there are men around

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Speaker 2: you who you don't recognize because they're all wearing masks.

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Speaker 2: Now it's it is un and what in the hell

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Speaker 2: were they doing to the girls in a dentist chair?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't even want to go there.

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Speaker 2: I don't. So we have sixteen days and we're going

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Speaker 2: to find out, and I'm looking forward to it. But

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Speaker 2: there is a chorus of victims who are speaking out

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Speaker 2: actively on Capitol Hill real time. They are reminding everyone

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Speaker 2: that the time is nearing and that the bank files.

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Speaker 2: There have been a lot of documents dumped by Deutsche

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Speaker 2: Bank and JP Morgan. Apparently there are may be some

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Speaker 2: subpoenas coming for twenty plus more banks, and I think

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Speaker 2: in the coming days we'll be hearing more of that.

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Speaker 2: Is that accurate.

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Speaker 6: Court.

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Speaker 4: Well, I know that the committee received records from JP

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Speaker 4: Morgan and Deutsche Bank and that will be released after

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Speaker 4: internal review. So with regards to the twenty depositions, I

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Speaker 4: don't know, but I'm very intrigued. Well listen, keep it here,

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Speaker 4: because coming up, Jarrett Farentino, legal expert extraordinaire joins us.

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Speaker 4: Who's going to help us separate some fact from some speculation.

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Speaker 4: We've got that more true crime tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body Moven and listen, we have our

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Speaker 2: favorite prosecutor here with us, Jarrett Farantino, fresh off of

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Speaker 2: all Things All Things. We have a lot of cases

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Speaker 2: to get to, so Jared, we've been stacking some questions

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Speaker 2: for you all week, and we have some talk packs

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Speaker 2: for you as well, so we're gonna have to speed

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Speaker 2: talk through all of them. Welcome back. First of all,

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Speaker 2: how are you happy Thanksgiving? Have you post Thanksgiving?

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Speaker 7: Thanksgiving? Everyone?

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Speaker 2: All right, So let's go to talkback right now.

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Speaker 8: Hi, ladies, I've been listening to your coverage on the

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Speaker 8: Jeffrey Epstein case. I have to admit I lean a

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Speaker 8: little more towards the pessimistic side, but I do appreciate

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Speaker 8: hearing Stephanie's optimism. I would love to hear Jarreed Farrantino

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Speaker 8: talk about some of the legal lees in the bill

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Speaker 8: to release the files that limits their reactions. And then

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Speaker 8: also how likely it is that the lawyers for the

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Speaker 8: victims might already have full access to these files. So

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Speaker 8: if they're not released in full, somebody still potentially has

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Speaker 8: them and could.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, what a good question, clever question, What

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Speaker 2: a great question.

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Speaker 3: Throw So I guess she's asking, like, through the process

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Speaker 3: of discovery, right, would the lawyers for the victims have

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Speaker 3: these files already?

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Speaker 2: Right? But is there any discoveries there has been?

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Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, so if there are, it all depends on

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Speaker 5: what stage certain litigation is at. It's when you exchange

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Speaker 5: that documentation in discovery, those redactions, the protections of those

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Speaker 5: redactions may not apply.

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Speaker 7: It may be the very person.

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Speaker 5: Whose name is typically redacted asking for the records, so

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Speaker 5: they would have in that scenario unredacted records in the

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Speaker 5: event discovery has taken place.

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Speaker 7: Now, there are a lot of claims that.

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Speaker 5: Are at various stages, so it's hard to sell. But

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Speaker 5: that would be an exception to the redaction.

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Speaker 7: So it's an.

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Speaker 5: Insightful question, and quite honestly, it puts the redaction and

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Speaker 5: some of that information that remains confidential into a scenario

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Speaker 5: where it would be unredacted.

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Speaker 2: Interesting.

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Speaker 4: Oh, interesting, So if if that's the case, that sounds

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Speaker 4: like potentially there could be more transparency if it brings

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Speaker 4: that into a lane of being an adacted.

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Speaker 5: Well between those folks, it would be. And then there

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Speaker 5: are protections afforded to how it can be disclosed, how

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Speaker 5: it could become part of a filing court. So it's

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Speaker 5: hard to say whether or not. Because they may have

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Speaker 5: unredacted information, they're still certainly bound by certain public disclosures

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Speaker 5: of it. You know, there are privileges that attach to

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Speaker 5: that kind of documentation.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask a question just as a follow up

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Speaker 2: to that I had read earlier today? And I've seen

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Speaker 2: multiple reports of this that Gilain Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's co conspirator,

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Speaker 2: who we all know, is serving a twenty year sentence.

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Speaker 2: Initially she was in a very bad place. Now she's

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Speaker 2: in a very cushy situation. And allegedly Glee Maxwell will

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Speaker 2: be following a petition challenging her sex trafficking conviction that's

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Speaker 2: allegedly coming next week, and could that possibly encourage the

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Speaker 2: DOJ to keep certain files kind of stander wraps in

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Speaker 2: the event that shed a new trial. Yeah, yeah, she's

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Speaker 2: She's yes.

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Speaker 9: Isn't that convenient according to her lawyer, correctly if I've

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Speaker 9: heard otherwise, But according to her lawyer, Giley Maxwell, sometime

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Speaker 9: in the next two weeks will be following a petition

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Speaker 9: challenging her sex traffic and conviction, and if so, the

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Speaker 9: DOJ could use it as a reason to hold.

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Speaker 2: Certain files in the event that Gilaine maxis is why

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Speaker 2: she has such a trial position right now? So is

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Speaker 2: it possible that from a timing perspective, here we are

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Speaker 2: sixteen days out, we are seeing the you know, we're

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Speaker 2: seeing pictures and things that are being released, whether it's

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Speaker 2: from the Epstein estate, et cetera. Let's assume the best

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Speaker 2: and you know, all of the inner workings in our

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Speaker 2: government are signed and ready to share. However, if in

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Speaker 2: the eleventh hour, Gileaene Maxwell suddenly raises her hand from

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Speaker 2: her cushy, uh, you know, facility, let's call it, and

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Speaker 2: says I want to have a new trial, and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to say that my last trial is bunk. Therefore

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Speaker 2: all of these files should be ce because that could

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Speaker 2: affect my freedom.

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Speaker 5: There's a carve out in the Disclision Disclosure Act, so

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Speaker 5: great catch. The carve out specifically says you will not

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Speaker 5: get child sexual abuse materials, you will not get victims' names,

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Speaker 5: and you will not get filings or names that would

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Speaker 5: impact a federal investigation.

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Speaker 7: So there's the magic word.

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Speaker 5: Now, does Galaine Maxwell's challenge does that spring a federal

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Speaker 5: investigation back to life? Great thought, It's an argument that

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Speaker 5: could be used her attorney, I know she filed that appeal.

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Speaker 5: She was represented by Arthur Idalla in New York. They

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Speaker 5: were challenging whether or not she was protected under no

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Speaker 5: prosecution agreement that Jeffrey Epstein had, which I thought was

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Speaker 5: far reaching, but the thought provoking them it was.

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Speaker 2: An interesting argument.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: So the two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight

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Speaker 2: conviction that you're speaking of that happened in West Palm Beach,

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Speaker 2: which were state charged, not federal charges, and in those

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Speaker 2: state charges, Epstein declares no co conspirators, meaning nobody who's

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Speaker 2: doing the deed in my circle can be convicted moving forward,

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Speaker 2: and then Gilie Maxwell gets convicted federally, so they're kind

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Speaker 2: of like, ooh, this is a little like there's some

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Speaker 2: strategy here where she might find a crack in the system.

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Speaker 7: Right, that's what Phil positived.

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Speaker 5: Now, that was all state, but he extended a promise

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Speaker 5: from one prosecutor into the term of another.

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Speaker 7: He's a free man today because of that. So it

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Speaker 7: is interesting.

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Speaker 5: I am hoping they don't use the Glain Maxwell case

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Speaker 5: springing back to life on her own motion to say

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Speaker 5: that now there's an ongoing federal investigation, her case is

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Speaker 5: pretty frozen in time in that it is the law

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Speaker 5: of the case. She's already been tried and convicted.

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Speaker 7: I don't know that they could make that argument, but

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Speaker 7: there is.

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Speaker 5: That language which could be narrowly used to drive that

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Speaker 5: affection throw.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a funny thing. I can't imagine a universe

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Speaker 2: well that will happen. But you know, everybody, even internally here,

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Speaker 2: is like, there's going to be a catch. There's going

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Speaker 2: to be a catch, and could that possibly be the

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Speaker 2: catch in the armor I've had at my heart that

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Speaker 2: everybody wants transparency, nobody even this is again not political,

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Speaker 2: It could be of so many things follow the money,

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Speaker 2: and I do think that the Deutsche Bank and the

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Speaker 2: JP Morgan Bank and the twenty plus other banks that

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Speaker 2: may be subpoena in the coming weeks, I think that

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Speaker 2: is where the answers lie.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely. I think if you look at what are they

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Speaker 5: going to be releasing, Uh, there's documentation, bank records, phone records, travelogues.

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Speaker 5: As much as people want to see the salacious list,

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Speaker 5: the devil's in the details and they're very hard to

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Speaker 5: run from.

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Speaker 2: But this delay Maxwell thing is something we should keep

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Speaker 2: a quloose watch on and not on my Bengo card.

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Speaker 2: Was the dentist's chair that we saw today, so we

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Speaker 2: can move on from that. But it gets weirder even

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Speaker 2: for me, and I'm down the weird hole in every way.

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Speaker 3: Well, when you combine it with the photo from twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four with the medical equipment next to the bed, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's week right, it's weird.

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Speaker 2: Courtney.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I just one more thing on the glean if

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Speaker 4: I may, which is apparently the letter indicates that she

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Speaker 4: will file the request without a lawyer.

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Speaker 2: Representing her number one who needs a lawyer.

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Speaker 4: And number two that the grounds have not been stated

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Speaker 4: on what she'll file on, but that it's known as

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Speaker 4: a Habeas petition. Which doesn't the habeast petition mean you've

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Speaker 4: got me on lawfully? So I guess, A, how could

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Speaker 4: she possibly say that since she was convicted? And B

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Speaker 4: is there benefit to not having a lawyer represent her?

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Speaker 2: She's doing it? Pro se what this is?

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Speaker 5: So?

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Speaker 4: According this is New York Times I'm looking at. The

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Speaker 4: letter was submitted by Gilainne Maxwell's lawyer. It offers no

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Speaker 4: details about the grounds that miss Maxwell will cite in

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Speaker 4: her filing known as a Habeas petition, but the letter

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Speaker 4: indicated that she would file the request shortly and it

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00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 4: would be done without a lawyer representing her.

437
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 7: So I wouldn't recommend that approach, especially.

438
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: My prosecutor, Jared Garantino, is not doubt.

439
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 5: With that secutor, you don't ever want to be the

440
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 5: guy that.

441
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 7: Loses the someone without a lawyer. I can tell you that, oh.

442
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 5: My goodness, name will like be put on a plate

443
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 5: and put in the law library. But I don't know,

444
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 5: And the fact that there's no details suggest to me

445
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 5: there's a problem here, and there's there's probably no taste

446
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 5: to this thing.

447
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: More, there's a strategy behind it in some way that

448
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: we just are not seeing at the moment. I can't

449
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 2: wait to discuss this with you and Jarrett, as I

450
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 2: said to you during the break, you have to watch

451
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 2: the Diddy doc, The Puff Daddy, the Reckoning. I just

452
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 2: want to talk to you about it legally, because so

453
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: many things were accused in that rarely that I'm just

454
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 2: so curious about the legal part. So we can talk

455
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 2: about that next week.

456
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 7: Absolutely.

457
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 10: All right, let's go to another talk that do you

458
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 10: think it's possible that Gawayne Maxwell has turned States evidence

459
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 10: and in turn has received a better prison area for

460
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 10: her to.

461
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:21,959
Speaker 2: Spend her time.

462
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 10: You know, I find it hard to believe that she

463
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 10: just got moved and gave nothing, and with the Clinton

464
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 10: thing getting opened up, maybe she has something to.

465
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 11: Do with that.

466
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 2: There's never a version of this story that has ever

467
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 2: been told that Clinton is not involved with. Right, let's

468
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,239
Speaker 2: just say that, let's start there, right, So, just to

469
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: have a pox in a lot of houses. My opinion

470
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: doesn't count here, but I think we could all infer

471
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: what mine is? Well, what is it?

472
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 11: Yeah?

473
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. She has been transferred to a lower

474
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 2: security prison in exchange for silence or for you know,

475
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: just being mindful, as only and from me that she

476
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: may have. And again this is not a specific person.

477
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 2: I don't think this is about as specific grouping. I

478
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: don't think it's political. I think it's even far bigger

479
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 2: than that, as the dentist chair would suggest.

480
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 5: So I think she still looks like she's in an

481
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 5: ad although prison, comfortable prison setting aside, she remains in

482
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 5: an adversarial posture here. She's still filing, she's still fighting

483
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 5: for details not to come out. She's on the wrong

484
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 5: side of the v here. She has not come over

485
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 5: onto the government side. The question was is it possible?

486
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 5: It's certainly possible. Is it likely there would be a

487
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 5: paper trail that would be.

488
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 7: Coming out too?

489
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 5: You can only do so much of this under the

490
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 5: cover of night, can you know?

491
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 2: Is it at some point? I don't think a lot

492
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 2: happens at night.

493
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 5: Well, it certainly does. But I think we're getting further

494
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 5: down the road here. At some point, this woman is

495
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 5: sitting in jail. She's gotten no break other than a

496
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 5: pushy or prison for her crime. People have look at

497
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 5: look at Sammy de Bull Gravano. He killed nineteen people.

498
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 5: He's a free man today. Like, there are crimes if

499
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 5: you give the right information that you will be excused of. Okay,

500
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 5: I'm not so publicly, I'm not seeing this. The cynic

501
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 5: in me joins your company and says it's entirely possible.

502
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 2: That is so well said. You are so right about

503
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 2: the mob stuff too. It is.

504
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 3: I see Sammy the Bull on TikTok's like, it's crazy

505
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 3: to me. I'm scrolling and I'm like, oh my god,

506
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: that's Sammy.

507
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 2: Yeah in my Instagram right now. He's like in my algorithm.

508
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 2: I know it's a yeah.

509
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 5: He's kind of sofy looking at this.

510
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: Because we work in true crime, it says it all frankly. Wow,

511
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: I we have to talk about Luigi as well. So

512
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 2: we've been saying it all week. Finally we have the

513
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: guy who's going to know all of the answers, soash

514
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 2: we go to a talkback or just move on to Luigi.

515
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 11: Talk back the talk back.

516
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 12: Hi, True Crime tonight. This is Andy from Minnesota. I

517
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 12: was just listening to last night's episode and I just

518
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 12: need to apologize Steph. I do not think that we

519
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 12: will see these files unredacted, the Epstein files. I think

520
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 12: there are too many important people in there. They have

521
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 12: too much money and too much power.

522
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, that's my girl, Andy, thank you. Yeah,

523
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 3: I agree you are. I think the combination of Bill

524
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 3: Clinton investigation being opened, you know, and this Gilain Maxwell

525
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 3: business that's just kind of I just learned about just

526
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 3: now live on the air, I think those those two

527
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 3: things in combination with one.

528
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,239
Speaker 2: Another are going to hold. And I think that's I

529
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 2: think that all sets a really big stage for things

530
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 2: being withheld. But I think I think the general mass

531
00:28:55,280 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 2: public is able to see beyond anything political again being political,

532
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,959
Speaker 2: and actually just see that we're talking actually about a crime,

533
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: a very real crime that could be happening real time,

534
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: and that the collective generally speaking in general public, whether

535
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 2: Democrat or Republican or from Mars or whatever, are all

536
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: going to collectively not be okay with any shannetigans. Right.

537
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 3: But the general public and the general collective of people

538
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 3: that were that you're speaking of are not in charge.

539
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel like we've gotten pretty quickly

540
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: to a signing of a bill that happened. We had

541
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 2: that conversation two weeks prior to the bill bill getting

542
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: going on, And.

543
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: Do you understand what I'm saying, Like they signed this

544
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 3: bill because Trump was like, go ahead and googree. Now

545
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 3: even though they were the day before going no way,

546
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 3: no way. They Trump said go ahead and sign the bill.

547
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 3: And suddenly now there's this investigation into Bill Clinton. They

548
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 3: knew that was going to happen.

549
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: They almost like running for something that it wouldn't come out.

550
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: I see the point that's not lost on me. But

551
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: I am going to still hold that's some hope that

552
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: the I love the light will overshadow of the dark.

553
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: I hope you're right.

554
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 3: I think some files will be released, like no question,

555
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 3: but it's and we don't know what.

556
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: We don't know, right, we don't know.

557
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 3: If it's going to be the full thing until you know,

558
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 3: we will never know that, by the.

559
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: Way, show me on. We don't know to share. It's

560
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: getting even worse in my head, like I get it,

561
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: like the list. I already have the list in my head,

562
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: Like that's even going to be old news to all

563
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: of us at this point. Like I think we're like

564
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: actually going into a category in a place mentally that's

565
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: far scarier than may even.

566
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 3: Be the truth, so let it rip scary. Well, this

567
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 3: is true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Bobby Movin and

568
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 3: we are joined right now by Jarrett Farentino. We also

569
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 3: have Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker. Of course, we've been

570
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 3: talking about the Epstein Files and we want to hear

571
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 3: from you. Give us a call it eighty eight thirty

572
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 3: one crime or hit us on the talkbacks on the

573
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app.

574
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: And we have our favorite prosecutor in the house, Jarrett

575
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: Farantino is back, by the way. Thank you for all

576
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 2: of the questions that we've been stacking. You've been doing

577
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 2: such a good job with your talkbacks and your dms.

578
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: We've been stacking them for Jarrett. Jarrett, little do you

579
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: know that for the last seven days, since you were

580
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: here last we have had questions. You've created a swell

581
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: legally speaking, So needless is say we have to talk

582
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: about Luigi because not only is it a case that

583
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: you follow so closely, but it's also a case that

584
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 2: you also are a lawyer in, so you have a

585
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: unique perspective. So what do you think. Let's go right

586
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: to a Courtney tell us everyow.

587
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 4: Let me just lay baxt story catch people up a

588
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 4: little bit.

589
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: So twenty seven year old Luigimanngione.

590
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 4: He appeared in the Manhattan Supreme Court this week and

591
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 4: this is all for pre trial evidentiary hearing. So the

592
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 4: accused killer, Luigimanngione, is facing nine state felony charges, including

593
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 4: second degree murder. Is also facing federal terrorism and capital

594
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 4: murder charges. All of this relates back to the December

595
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four killing of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

596
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 4: It happened in broad morning daylight in the middle of Manhattan. Now,

597
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 4: Mangion's defense is seeking to suppress physical evidence as well

598
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 4: as statements. And what the defense is arguing is that

599
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 4: a three D printed handgun, silencer and manifesto, as well

600
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 4: as Mangion's comments to the police officers were obtained unconst usually.

601
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 4: It is important to note that Luigimangion has pled not

602
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 4: guilty to all charges. So last thing, and we covered

603
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 4: this quite a bit last night, the details of it.

604
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 4: But after a five day manhunt, Luigi Mangione landed at

605
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 4: a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania. Someone who worked there called

606
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 4: nine one one police officers came to the scene. At

607
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 4: that point, the police officers approached Luigi Mangione and it

608
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 4: was nineteen minutes and forty eight seconds or something before

609
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 4: his miranda rights were read. That is the crux of

610
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 4: basically everything is what it seems, Jared. So what's your

611
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 4: take on the ongoing legal battle regarding you admissibility.

612
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, it's not a question of whether

613
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 5: or not Luigi Mangioni did it or not at this stage.

614
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 5: This is a question of what is going to be

615
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 5: allowed in at the trial. So what they've objected to.

616
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 5: The key objection is the search of his backpack. You

617
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 5: have the likely murder weapon in that bag, ammunition, a laptop,

618
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 5: and his notebook slash manifesto. Okay, the defense obviously does

619
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 5: not want those items in, so they are going to

620
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 5: do the best they can to say the constitutional rights

621
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 5: of Luigi Mangioni have been violated. These searches were warrantless searches.

622
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 5: So let's break it down first. Number one, what is

623
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 5: a warrantless search? Ninety nine point nine percent of searches

624
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 5: include a warrant, which means an officer filled out an

625
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 5: Affidavid went to a judge and said, we want to

626
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 5: search this person's backpack, car, person, or home. Okay, there

627
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 5: are exitgen circumstances where you don't need a warrant, so

628
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 5: we don't have one here. The question for prosecutors, the

629
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,919
Speaker 5: onus goes back on them to answer, what exigen circumstance

630
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 5: did you have that justified going into that young man's backpack.

631
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 5: They're arguing two major ones.

632
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 7: One there was a public safety concern that this was.

633
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 5: An active shutter act right that they believe his backpack

634
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 5: could have obtained contained explosive.

635
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 7: Great position.

636
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 5: I'd buy it if that if there was a bomb

637
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 5: in there it went off. What's the first thing everybody

638
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 5: would say? Why didn't they check that backpack?

639
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 2: Right, there's a guy from New York who does shot

640
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 2: a guy in point blank range, and they're saying he's

641
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 2: eating a hash brown in an empty McDonald's. All of

642
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 2: those workers are in danger. If that's not a secure scenario.

643
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 5: Here's the problem the defense, and that's a great point.

644
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 5: The defense is saying, wait a minute, you were so

645
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 5: worried that that was a bomb, it didn't even clear

646
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 5: the McDonald's. You didn't call a bomb squad and the

647
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 5: officer that handles the bag. She says, checking for explosives,

648
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 5: you know, like, and they're saying she's play acting for

649
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 5: the body. Can a judge is going to look at

650
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 5: this and say, most likely.

651
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 7: I buy this.

652
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 5: I would check that backpack to make sure even when

653
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 5: I take it to go get a warrant or I

654
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 5: secure it, the officer securing it don't blow up. You

655
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 5: got to check that stuff.

656
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 2: And let's assume that they didn't think it was an

657
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 2: actual bomb. They thought it was a gun that just

658
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 2: probably shot a guy in New York and cold blood.

659
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 2: Is that possible nobody thought he was a bomb threat?

660
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: Is that a distinction the gun.

661
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 5: Yes, it's a critical distinction because a gun in a

662
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 5: backpack doesn't pose a threat to public safety. So the

663
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 5: next question is, if it's not a bomb, how can

664
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 5: we get to that search another way? The other option

665
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 5: is an inventory search, where basically you take someone into

666
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 5: custody and you do what's called an inventory search of

667
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 5: their belongings. They're arguing, well, inevitably, we would have taken

668
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 5: that backpack and conducted an inventory search. The defense is saying,

669
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 5: this wasn't an inventory search. You weren't inventoring it, you

670
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 5: were rummaging through it, you were scattering what was in there.

671
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 5: This was a straight up search of that backpack. So

672
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 5: those are the two major exeged circumstances. The other one

673
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 5: is the threat to the officers. You can search a

674
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 5: defendant for an arrestees immediate grab area like in a car,

675
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 5: the center console or areas they have some control over.

676
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 5: They're saying the bag was in his immediate grab area.

677
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 5: The defense is saying he was handcuffed, he wouldn't have

678
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 5: been able to grab any pose no threat to you.

679
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 5: You still should have got a warrant.

680
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,399
Speaker 2: I see. Can I just stop on that from one

681
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: point because I've been stuck on this because I've never

682
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 2: understood if the gun was not found in New York

683
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: and he was possibly in this Altadena McDonald's where we

684
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 2: know there were people there because somebody called in the

685
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 2: threat that if in fact it was Luigi Mangioni and

686
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 2: he had a gun, and he's known to be a

687
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 2: pretty good shoot, he just maybe murdered a man in

688
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 2: midtown Manhattan, why would that not be a pose of

689
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 2: threat to the general public or to the police officers

690
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: who are unless he was handcuffed.

691
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 5: It's not once he's secured. So yes, being secured, you

692
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 5: have a stronger argument. Now I think these items are

693
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,439
Speaker 5: going to come in under one of those. Then there's

694
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 5: a concept, a fourth concept called this is why people

695
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 5: don't like lawyers. I got to say it, But the

696
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 5: fourth concept is we really like you inevitable discovery where

697
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 5: the police would have taken that. They did eventually get

698
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 5: a warrant, and they would have had access to that anyway,

699
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 5: and it would have inevitably been discovered. This show is

700
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 5: going to find a reason to uphold this search. But

701
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 5: the defense is doing a good job. I have to say,

702
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 5: these arguments are very good. And body cams are everywhere.

703
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 5: It's hard to out run those.

704
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: And it's hard to unsee it. So even as they're

705
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: like seeking a jury pool in the near future, this

706
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 2: is active news everywhere. We're all seeing this footage. There's

707
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: no question that yes, he was apprehended, he was put

708
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: in handcuffs. It looks a lot like Luigi the guy

709
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: that I'm seeing, and it looks like he had a manifesto.

710
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 2: That last one is really interesting and I wasn't aware

711
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 2: of that, So that tracks meaning Okay, maybe he in

712
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: that same nineteen minutes that they were not reading his

713
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 2: Miranda rights. Eventually the same information would have gotten out.

714
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: That makes sense.

715
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,479
Speaker 5: Well, the Miranda rights are a little different. They really

716
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 5: govern the statements he made. So, and what the defense

717
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 5: is trying to cover up is that he said his

718
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 5: name was Mark Rosario and provided a fake ID. The

719
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 5: police don't just walk up to some Mirando and automatically

720
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 5: read you your Miranda right.

721
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 7: They don't just walk up so yere's the right. It

722
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:53,919
Speaker 7: just doesn't work that way.

723
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 5: He was not in It was not a custodial interrogation

724
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 5: at that point, and that is a big distinction.

725
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 7: They were identifying him.

726
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 5: Miranda does not attach unless there's a custodial situation and

727
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 5: he's being interrogated. He was not being interrogated at that point.

728
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 5: So I think those statements are going to survive.

729
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 2: Oh and Jared, do you think that also?

730
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 4: The defense was tying the two together, like just adding

731
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 4: that on because I didn't understand why they were making

732
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 4: such a quote stink about the miranda.

733
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: But in those nineteen minutes, who cares because of what

734
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: you said? They were just saying, you know, who are you?

735
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: And yeah, the guy that they could have he could

736
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,240
Speaker 2: have been, could be the killer in the York.

737
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 5: The answer is the defense is saying, you knew damn

738
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 5: well who he was, and this was all pretext to

739
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 5: get him talking and to get him talking and violation

740
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 5: of his rights. So but from what I've seen, even

741
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,760
Speaker 5: though they may have suspected the officers that he watched

742
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,240
Speaker 5: Fox News, you see this whole thing. But but again,

743
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 5: even if that was in their mind, you go to

744
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 5: what was being asked. They were simply identifying him and

745
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 5: then they were talking about it if he was in New

746
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 5: York recently. Those kinds of things eventually lead to a

747
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 5: custodial situation where he was then mirandized. To me, it

748
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 5: flowed pretty naturally from what I've read. I think the

749
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 5: bigger concern is the search of the backpack. But I

750
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 5: think they're going to be okay in all of this.

751
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 3: Does there any world we live in where like state

752
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 3: laws in Pennsylvania versus New York are going to be

753
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 3: at play?

754
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 7: Oh?

755
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, So the state laws in Pennsylvania are at play here,

756
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 5: the constitutional rights apported to someone in.

757
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 7: Pa orc and those are.

758
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 5: The laws I fought with throughout my career and there

759
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 5: are pretty extensive constitutional protections in Pennsylvania.

760
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 7: We provide a greater Fourth.

761
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 5: Amendment protection than even the federal law, so that here

762
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 5: it survives here, and that's a great question. If it

763
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 5: survives here, in all likelihood, it's going to survive in

764
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 5: federal court too, almost one hundred percent.

765
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 2: How interesting. I hadn't occurred to me. That is so interesting,

766
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 2: because yes, the state to state is so important. And

767
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: what do you think he's thinking right now? Do you think, Luigiman?

768
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: I know you can't think. This is not your job

769
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 2: as a lawyer to like your you know, feelings don't count.

770
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 2: But I find it so interesting. And Jarrett, you should

771
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 2: know how many times we've talked throughout the week of like,

772
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: oh my god, we have to ask Jared this, Oh

773
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 2: my gosh, he'll know the answer, because it does seem

774
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 2: like there is such strategy And manned, does your lawyer

775
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 2: count in this exact scenario? Whoever has the best lawyer?

776
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 2: You know, frankly sometimes wins right. So it's not about

777
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: right or wrong or did he didn't he? Now we're

778
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 2: talking real strategy. Is there anything that you've seen so

779
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: far that you thought was a left ball or a

780
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 2: foul ball.

781
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 7: I think the Anfilios are fine lawyers.

782
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 5: Certainly they have prosecutorial experience, defense experience, high profile experience.

783
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 5: Who am I to say? But I didn't like the

784
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 5: fact that attorney infilio took a shot at the officer

785
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 5: from New York when she said there were a thousand

786
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 5: other shoes in New York. Did they get as much

787
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 5: attention on Fox News? It's like that officer doesn't control

788
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 5: Fox News Break.

789
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 2: I thought the same thing.

790
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 7: I didn't like that. I know what she was saying.

791
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 2: In a statement way right, right right.

792
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 5: And then the suppression in front of the judge.

793
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 7: That's not going to move the judge.

794
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 5: But again, believe me, I've been in trouble many times

795
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 5: in court for running of my mouth. I'm not saying

796
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 5: I haven't, but I'm just saying I get it, and

797
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 5: emotions are high. She just wanted to take her shot,

798
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 5: and that's great.

799
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 7: They're fine lawyers.

800
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 5: They say, a good lawyer knows the law, but a

801
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 5: better lawyer knows the judge. Right I would have I.

802
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: Would have I would have attacked the show.

803
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 3: The helicopter walked the Purp walk instead of the Fox

804
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 3: News angle.

805
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 2: Right, the purp walk was insane, and it was in

806
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 2: New York anyway, And I would have thought the optics

807
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: in the room were interesting. I've been fascinated by the

808
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: optics in the trial itself. When you see, you know,

809
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: Luigi himself smiling and grinning, you see him as this

810
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 2: young cables photographs in her design. I know, but it

811
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 2: does look like he has the whole world ahead of him, right.

812
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: It seems like a shame that this life is wasted.

813
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 2: That's the optics, right, That's what they are presenting like

814
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 2: a reality show. And I also thought it was equally

815
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 2: interesting when Luigi was faced with some of the harder details,

816
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 2: or having to watch body cam footage of himself being

817
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: arrested allegedly, or of you know, the shooting. Let's go there.

818
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,240
Speaker 7: I always say this, though, Stephanie.

819
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,959
Speaker 5: If I'm charged with the crime I didn't commit, last

820
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 5: thing I'd be doing in that courtroom is I'd be

821
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 5: weeping like a child like this, thank you.

822
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: I'm begging he's out there, the active shooter is out there.

823
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: Please find the man who killed the CEO of the

824
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:43,240
Speaker 2: insurance company.

825
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 3: There's been plenty of people that have been convicted and

826
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 3: not and men completely innocent and exonerated.

827
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 2: That didn't like weep in court every second they were no,

828
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 2: but you think you had it by being wildly accused wrongly.

829
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 7: But body, they weren't smiling, like look at remember Damon

830
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 7: Eckles when Damien he smiles and that in that case

831
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 7: he's that smile out of the police car, if you remember.

832
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 2: Like was smiling court too. Yeah.

833
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 5: I always tell people you can you can control the message.

834
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 5: You can control your smiling, you cannot control how it's

835
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 5: received by a jury. And I promise you, like you know,

836
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 5: chances are what you think they're going to see is

837
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 5: not what they're going to see.

838
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 2: One more I think quick legal question.

839
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 4: So you said earlier it's not at question whether or

840
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,240
Speaker 4: not Luigi, Oh, you just meant for this evidentiary hearing

841
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 4: that it's not in question because I'm honestly struggling.

842
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 2: I feel like I'd be very bad on the jury.

843
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 11: I'm sorry.

844
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 4: I'm like, I've seen the guy on camera, you know,

845
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 4: do the shooting, but he is pleading not guilty, so

846
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 4: his no, and they're.

847
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: Banking on people he has not seen that. That just

848
00:44:55,640 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: he's not the guy. Wrong guy. Well, I mean, if.

849
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 7: That's his plea.

850
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 5: But at this stage, really this is a matter of

851
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 5: what his plea is not guilty, But at this stage

852
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 5: it's not even the question. It's the question of the

853
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 5: police tactics and the investigative techniques and things of that nature.

854
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 5: So we don't even get to that question yet.

855
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 7: You know, that's just not the focus of what they're doing.

856
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 3: This is setting the stage for the trial, right, And

857
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 3: is there a universe that he could lead, he could.

858
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 5: Walk, Well, it's entirely possible.

859
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 7: Likely is another question.

860
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 2: Wow, But just the fact that that's even an option

861
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 2: on the table. By the way, we stranger things have happened.

862
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 3: Right, I mean, if this, if this bag search, if

863
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 3: those items in that bag doesn't get admitted, there's going

864
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 3: to be a problem for the process.

865
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 2: The fruit of the poisons so to speak.

866
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,479
Speaker 5: Right, Well, and that's the term. If I get a question,

867
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 5: it's always what does that mean? Through to the poison street.

868
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 5: It means if that search was bad, anything from the notebook,

869
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 5: anything from the laptop is the fruit of the poison streets,

870
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 5: a biblical reference, and anything that flows from it is out.

871
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 4: Wow, Jarrett, my gosh, Well keep it here because we

872
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 4: are going inside day three of the Brian Walsh murder trial,

873
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 4: and Jarrett Farantino is going to help break it all

874
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 4: down for us. And if you have questions for our

875
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 4: legal legal Jared Farandino, give us a call. Eighty eight

876
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 4: three one Crime True Crime Tonight.

877
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

878
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

879
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong, body move in time for us sprite officially

880
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 2: to all, and we have our favorite prosecutor, Jarrett Farentino.

881
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 2: He's seeking feel free. You can ask him all the

882
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 2: questions because he's answering all of them, and you break

883
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 2: it down so clearly and simply that number one, thank you,

884
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 2: and number two we have a lot more questions, so Tah,

885
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 2: I know, let's go to you first.

886
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 11: Okay, Yeah, this is a quick one.

887
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 13: Even in the break, we were just saying how many

888
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 13: listeners all have questions specifically for Jared, Well, even the

889
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 13: staff members do. Because our producer Ava, she had a

890
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 13: question last night and I'm just going to paraphrase it

891
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 13: a little bit and it's gonna toss with your way,

892
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 13: but producer Ava. Shout out to Ava, because I know

893
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 13: you're listening right now. She mentioned she lives in New York,

894
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 13: and she mentioned that in New York, everywhere she's going

895
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 13: and diners and everywhere else, every new station is broadcasting

896
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 13: this info. This is regarding Luigi about the unconstitutional evidence.

897
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,280
Speaker 13: Her question is, more or less, even if the defense

898
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,720
Speaker 13: is successful and the evidence is suppressed, how are legal

899
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 13: teams going to find a jury pool that isn't tainted

900
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 13: with prior knowledge?

901
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 11: What's your thought?

902
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 5: So that's a great question. It never ceases to amaze

903
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 5: me how ill informed some people are are. So there

904
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 5: are people who have no idea, who not certainly not

905
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 5: in our world right nights a week, so they have

906
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 5: no clue who Luigi n Angioni is or what evidence

907
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 5: was suppressed in his case. That's the reality. So what

908
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 5: you're how you avoid that, though, and not to be facetious,

909
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 5: the way you fix that problem is jurors are brought

910
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 5: in and they are asked, do you know about this case?

911
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 7: Now?

912
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 5: That question alone won't will not disqualify you from jury duty.

913
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 5: The question becomes, are you aware of any information that

914
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 5: will prejudice your ability to be a fair and impartial

915
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 5: juror if they're like, yeah, I know they found them

916
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 5: with a gun that matched the body. But if you say, no,

917
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 5: you know, I know they caught him, I don't know

918
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 5: a lot of the details, which is a lot of

919
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 5: what witnesses would say or jurors would say, you'll you

920
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 5: will see or in panel the jury. It's just you

921
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 5: got to get to that point. There will be a

922
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 5: lot of people that will say, though I'm aware of

923
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 5: evidence that's been excluded, they're out, because really, even if

924
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 5: they even if they commit that, it won't factor into

925
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 5: what they do. It's just not supposed to be in

926
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 5: their mind because at that point, the court would have

927
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 5: ruled Mangioni's constitutional rights have been violated.

928
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 2: But it's an interesting question because say, for example, New York,

929
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 2: not even New York City anywhere for that matter. Sometimes

930
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: this footage becomes core memories. Right. You might not know

931
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 2: what you're watching, but you remember the guy getting off

932
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 2: a helicopter in you know, in New York City, the

933
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 2: mayor strives with the mayor may You kind of remember

934
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 2: it's like a core memory. You remember somebody with a

935
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: gun that was you know, in midtown and we saw

936
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 2: a man get shot. We saw this Brian Thompson and

937
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 2: you know, my heart goes out to his family that

938
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 2: you know, he was shot in cold blood. We all

939
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 2: had to witness that. So some of that, even if

940
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 2: you don't think you remember it is slightly tucked way

941
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 2: in your subconscious potentially unless you're really under a rock.

942
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,919
Speaker 2: And let's be honest, a lot of people are under

943
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: a rock and that's maybe a happy place to be.

944
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,919
Speaker 2: But also to say that.

945
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 7: The jury you want another.

946
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 14: Rock guy, Yeah, nobody wants the guy under a rock,

947
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 14: you know, deciding your entire future or if you're a victim,

948
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 14: you don't want under the rock person to you know,

949
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 14: decide if your you know, perpetrator is going to see

950
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 14: justice or not.

951
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 5: Complicated, so complicated, always looking for that person that is

952
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 5: just enough knowledge of the case to understand the who's

953
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 5: and what, but not the great detail that someone into

954
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 5: the true crime world and that would bring to the table.

955
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 7: That's a dangerous situation, yea.

956
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 3: So it's part of the questioning when the jury, when

957
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 3: the potential jury members are being seated as part of

958
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 3: the war doir right, they'll ask like do you know

959
00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 3: about this case?

960
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 2: And you're allowed to know?

961
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, I know, I remember this guy was shot,

962
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 3: and they might even be able to recall details like

963
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 3: it had denied, defend the pose on the bullets and

964
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 3: things like that. But as far as this evidence right

965
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 3: that it was excluded. If they know that, oh yeah,

966
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 3: there was a printed gun and it's not going to

967
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 3: be presented in trial, am I going to be able

968
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 3: to throw that out? No, you're dismissed. Right, That's basically

969
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 3: the situation.

970
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 2: And by the way, everybody goes to jury duty wanting

971
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 2: to be dismissed. But it's so important, Like it's such

972
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 2: a if you've never been on a juror before or

973
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 2: a jury before, it's really important and interesting and such

974
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 2: an important rite. You know, it always comes at the

975
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,280
Speaker 2: worst time, you know, notifications come at that like, really,

976
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 2: I'm going on vacation for the first time in ten

977
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 2: thousand years. Welcome to jury duty. But it really is

978
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 2: an important piece of the puzzle. So jump in and

979
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:02,760
Speaker 2: you know, cases some real civic duty. You know, everybody

980
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 2: needs smart jurors.

981
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 3: And luefully, you don't on it like some boring insurance

982
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 3: case or something.

983
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 2: You know, like you know, like insurance, it's very expensive.

984
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 2: It could be important. Stuff reminded unbiased jurors who.

985
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 5: Are I would always say to the jury like, congratulations,

986
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 5: you made it, and it's a murder, you know, to

987
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 5: set the room, you know it's like and then they

988
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:28,760
Speaker 5: want to like, oh my god, this is a nightmare.

989
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:29,760
Speaker 7: I'm living a nightmare.

990
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 4: Right, Given how high profile has been so far, do

991
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 4: you have any way to gauge if you think that

992
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 4: the jury will be sequestered.

993
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 2: Or not, or is it way too they have to

994
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 2: be sequestered.

995
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's always a logistical question to you know,

996
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 5: how long is the trial going to be?

997
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 7: When is the trial?

998
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 5: There's a good chance though, that the jury could be sequestered,

999
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 5: and that means basically they would be removed from society

1000
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 5: for a while. You know, they have to stay in

1001
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 5: a hotel and not night or they can read the

1002
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 5: sports section.

1003
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 7: They can't read the regular news.

1004
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 5: It's a tremendous inconvenience for a case that's probably going

1005
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 5: to last as long as this one. I think judges

1006
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 5: Judge Carol in this case would probably do his best

1007
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 5: to ensure that they're going to follow the rules. But

1008
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 5: again it's hard to say it is likely.

1009
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 7: Though, but I don't know.

1010
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 2: By the way, not to be on a loop. But

1011
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 2: again Diddy's trial, how they were not sequestered is do

1012
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 2: they shocking? Do they do they? That's a good question question.

1013
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 2: I know I am like a one trick pony right

1014
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 2: now talking about Didy. Everything leads back to the Diddy doc. So,

1015
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,879
Speaker 2: but what they don't ever do in the doc, which

1016
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 2: is why I like it and feel free to disagree

1017
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 2: with me and jump in. I can't wait for you

1018
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 2: guys to watch. It's not that exciting. It's not that

1019
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 2: there's no real heavy hand in it. It's not opinion based.

1020
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 2: It shows I think it's pretty weighted. It shows all.

1021
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 2: But it does show what could happen when people in

1022
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 2: influencers outside of a trial, how that can be influenced,

1023
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 2: and that how jurors also can How do you avoid it?

1024
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 2: It's impossible to avoid the real world when you are

1025
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 2: going home to the real world the end. And again

1026
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 2: the alternative is under the rock guy, and that's a

1027
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 2: little complicated too when you have somebody who lives under

1028
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 2: a rock who doesn't understand anything about you know, I

1029
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 2: don't know purpose in the case of Luigi, if I'm

1030
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 2: in his defense attorney's head or in Diddy's scenario, you know,

1031
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 2: the cycle of trauma, like if you're under a rock.

1032
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's helpful either. So it's it's

1033
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 2: apox on all houses, I guess.

1034
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 5: So to answer body's question, you can be sequestered on

1035
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 5: a federal jury. Okay, it's rare, but it happened. The

1036
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 5: other thing I was going to point out.

1037
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 7: Too, though, all the sequestration in the world.

1038
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 5: Here's the problem. Everybody has a phone. News comes at you.

1039
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 5: It's very difficult. You got to put this jury under

1040
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 5: a rock. That's what has to happen.

1041
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,800
Speaker 2: You do not have a phone. If you're a sequestered

1042
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 2: do you still have a phone?

1043
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 7: I can, but but again I think you could. It's

1044
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 7: only for phone.

1045
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 5: You don't have internet access, so you could.

1046
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:23,399
Speaker 2: Have better, but better if you're on a reality show

1047
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 2: you don't have a phone. Yeah, that's what I meant.

1048
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 3: I was when I was on the show and sequester

1049
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 3: I did not have a phone.

1050
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, like people on the Bachelor are getting sequestered, But

1051
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,720
Speaker 2: why can't the jury? But again, it's such an upset

1052
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 2: to your life or it's a little you know, break

1053
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 2: from their life. I don't know.

1054
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 3: It depends Yeah, that's true. It does depend. So I'm

1055
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 3: going to transition. This is true crime tonight on iHeartRadio.

1056
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 3: We're talking true crime all the time. We're kind of

1057
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 3: finishing up the Luigi Manji on talk. If you have

1058
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,720
Speaker 3: any questions, give us a call, EIoT thirty one Crime.

1059
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,240
Speaker 3: I'm going to hop right into Brian Walsh, if that's okay.

1060
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 3: So today was the third day in the murder trial

1061
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 3: of accused Massachusetts life killer Brian Walsh. Today's testimony, again,

1062
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,720
Speaker 3: it was the third day. Today's testimony centered on detailed

1063
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 3: forensic evidence, including blood stained items, tools, and possible tissue

1064
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 3: found in trash bags. The defense questioned the reliability and

1065
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 3: origin of that physical evidence. The accused Brian Walsh, is

1066
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 3: standing trial for murdering and dismembering his wife, Anna Walsh,

1067
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 3: who disappeared on New Year's Day in twenty twenty three.

1068
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 3: And I guess really the dismembering part of this is

1069
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 3: kind of off the table at this point because he's

1070
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 3: already pled guilty to that. However, he remains that he

1071
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 3: has you know, he says that he found Anna and

1072
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 3: she was already dead and she rolled off the bed.

1073
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 3: Basically that's how dead. She was, it's such a weird

1074
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:46,319
Speaker 3: argument was.

1075
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 2: Rolled off the bed. Norvous would call nine one one

1076
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:54,399
Speaker 2: in that scenario, right right.

1077
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:58,399
Speaker 3: So a life insurance agent confirmed victim Anna Walsh had

1078
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 3: two life insurance policies totaling one point two five million buckerinos,

1079
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 3: both payable, both payable to the accused Brian Walsh, and

1080
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 3: another agent testified that Brian Walsh had attempted to obtain

1081
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 3: his own life insurance but had been denied repeatedly due

1082
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 3: to ongoing federal charges related to that art fraud. Because

1083
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 3: it's a fraud, because because he's he's literally goofball, right. So,

1084
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 3: early early police response time was outlined with an officer

1085
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 3: recounting Brian Walsh's calm demeanor during the January fourth missing

1086
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 3: person report and a canine handler testifying that a thirty

1087
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 3: minute sweep of the property produced no findings.

1088
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 2: Now this one was interesting.

1089
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 3: The crime lab analyst David Gold testified that the family's

1090
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 3: Volvo had red and brown stains on both visors exam

1091
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 3: style kind of gloves, five areas that tested positive for blood,

1092
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 3: and a hair sample from a door handle at the

1093
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 3: trash facility crime At the same the same crime lab

1094
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 3: guy David Gold found multiple trash bags containing red and

1095
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 3: brown stained clothing, towels, rugs, a bathrobe, wallets, and a

1096
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 3: potential human tissue, along with tools like a hammer, hatchet,

1097
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 3: wire snips, a hacksaw, tape, god frogside, and a taped

1098
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 3: up tarp.

1099
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 2: Like, why why are we even wasting our time?

1100
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 3: Right? Well, he's again, for those who aren't familiar, he

1101
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 3: did plead guilty to dismembering and basically distributing her body

1102
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 3: throughout you know, the state of Massachusetts, but remains not

1103
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 3: guilty in you know that he actually committed the murder,

1104
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 3: but he panicked in the state that he was, you know,

1105
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 3: in this panic.

1106
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 2: Because she had a what was it called a Courtney Armstrong?

1107
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 2: What is it called?

1108
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 4: So this was driving me crazy, jareded So. In the

1109
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 4: opening statement, what Brian Walsh's defense attorney said was that

1110
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 4: Anna died of sudden, unexplained death.

1111
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 2: Come on, okay, But my problem is.

1112
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 4: And listen, I appreciate, or I believe the fact is

1113
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 4: that you really can say anything you want during opening statements.

1114
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 4: But how can a lawyer go up there and say

1115
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 4: this is what this woman died of.

1116
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 2: When Brian Walsh the accused is not a doctor who

1117
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 2: could diagnose or disease. It's just like as of all

1118
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 2: things ahead.

1119
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 5: He says it, he'd better be able to back it up,

1120
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 5: because otherwise the jury is just going to nail him

1121
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 5: over the head with I mean, you don't go up

1122
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 5: there and give a cause and manner of death and

1123
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 5: then not deliver. I mean at that point, by the way,

1124
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 5: this guy already will admit he hacked her to death,

1125
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 5: but it was after or hacked yeah, and.

1126
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 2: Put her her body parts all over the country.

1127
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not it's not you cannot as a lawyer. Yes,

1128
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 5: it's argument Yes, you could make certain claims.

1129
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 7: Yes, you could be argumentative.

1130
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 5: If you commit to a cause and manner of death

1131
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 5: of the victim, you better have a morsel of truth

1132
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 5: to back that up.

1133
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 7: But so that's what cooked.

1134
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I was so crazed about this, and I'm

1135
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 4: glad that what you just said, and I mean is

1136
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 4: the fact that the body we everyone knows the body

1137
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 4: doesn't exist, because he did said, yeah, I just you know,

1138
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 4: chopped her up, not to be crass, But is that

1139
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 4: cover enough for the attorney to say, well, prove me wrong.

1140
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 5: He could probably get that in by a cross examination

1141
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 5: question to say to a medical examiner, you cannot disprove

1142
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 5: that this is right. Now, that's a weak way of

1143
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 5: doing it. He could also get an expert on sudden,

1144
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 5: unexplained death to come in and say, yes, it could

1145
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 5: happen after New Year's Eve and going to bed, and

1146
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 5: so those are the two scenarios in which he could

1147
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 5: make that claim.

1148
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 2: Thanks, I want it.

1149
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask real quick, and I think this

1150
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 3: is an important one because this is a no body case, right,

1151
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 3: and how does the lack of the body or known

1152
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 3: cause of death impact the likelihood of conviction.

1153
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 5: Well, it's not easy, I mean, but it's doable in

1154
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 5: a scenario like this. It's a highly circumstantial case. Okay,

1155
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 5: But when you look at her body, how it was

1156
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 5: disposed of, and his searches and his behavior, you would

1157
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 5: make the argument she met her untimely and violently. He's

1158
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 5: covering it up in a series of steps, all supported

1159
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 5: by his actions and his searches, and you backdoor it

1160
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 5: up on a totally circumstantial case. It's doable. Don't get

1161
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 5: me wrong. It's not a preferred situation for prosecutors. Okay,

1162
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 5: but you're not required in a no body type situation

1163
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 5: to prove cause death. You're just that she died at

1164
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 5: the hands of Brian Walsh and with malice period.

1165
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 2: Okay, keep it here.

1166
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 4: We are all like chomping at the bid to ask

1167
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 4: legal expert Jarrett Farantino more questions. We're going to be

1168
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 4: continuing our conversation about accused wife killer Brian Walsh. We

1169
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 4: are also going to dig into new evidence in the

1170
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 4: death of Celeste rebus Hernandez True Crime Tonight.

1171
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1172
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

1173
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong. Body move in, and we have our most

1174
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 2: favorite prosecutor, Jarrett Farantino in the house answering all your questions.

1175
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 2: So if you have any more talkbacks, feel free to

1176
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 2: leave them on the iHeartRadio app, but without further ado, Courtney,

1177
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 2: what do you have? Okay?

1178
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 4: So this is one of the first points that body

1179
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 4: mentioned in the Brian Walsh, the accused wife killer who

1180
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 4: is facing trial now, and the victim, Anna Walls. She

1181
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 4: had two life insurance policies totally one point two five

1182
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 4: million dollars payable to her husband, the accused Brian Walsh,

1183
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 4: does this get you thinking anything or another, Jarrett, because

1184
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 4: I find it honestly a normal thing that to professional

1185
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 4: married people with children.

1186
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're own a house. That doesn't

1187
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 2: seem crazy to me.

1188
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 4: But I know people get real crazy about insurance policies.

1189
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 7: Well, it certainly has been motive in the past. Someone.

1190
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why we all get crazy about it. Everybody

1191
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,439
Speaker 2: kills for the insurance package.

1192
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 5: Right, So, Courty, you're saying, yeah, the defense would say

1193
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,479
Speaker 5: this is pretty natural. They have an earning capacity, they're

1194
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 5: ensuring one another in the event of their death. Here's

1195
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 5: here's the issue. There were financial problems, there were marital problems.

1196
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 5: This guy was faced those federal charges, so things were

1197
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 5: trending downward in ISFE anyway, firally, why not go for

1198
01:03:59,440 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 5: a score?

1199
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 7: Right?

1200
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 5: That's I mean, you know, so that's basically like greed

1201
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 5: took over.

1202
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 7: He's at the end of his rope.

1203
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 5: So as a prosecutor, I'm looking at motive. Money is

1204
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:14,439
Speaker 5: often a motive. But a defense like you said, would say, hey,

1205
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 5: I mean married couples have life insurance policies on them.

1206
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 5: People have life insurance policies for the benefit of people

1207
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 5: they care for. So there is a I would say

1208
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 5: less salacious explanation for that. But to me, as a

1209
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 5: prosecutor and a bit of a cynic, it's motive.

1210
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 2: I thought I misheard that. Then I thought that she

1211
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 2: had two life insurance policies on her specifically, she did

1212
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 2: not just.

1213
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 5: Want she did right Brian as the beneficiary. So basically,

1214
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 5: you go to two different companies max out like let's

1215
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 5: say there's a million dollar policy here with State Farm,

1216
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 5: or you go to Liberty Mutual or Airy and get

1217
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:58,919
Speaker 5: another million for whatever reason. But there's two different policies

1218
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 5: on her life. In the event of her death, all

1219
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 5: those moneys go to Brian, and that's where they're saying

1220
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 5: was his motive.

1221
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 2: So that's unusual, right, is too, Courtney, even in your

1222
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 2: humble opinion, is two policies on one person versus like,

1223
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 2: so it's a husband and a wife is in this case,

1224
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 2: in the Walshes case, we have Brian, we have Anna.

1225
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 2: Somehow Anna has two life insurance policies on her, but

1226
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 2: Brian only has one.

1227
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think it's not unusual, especially since her

1228
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 3: husband is like a loser, you know what I mean?

1229
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 2: Like, I'm so serious. Why wouldn't he have the life

1230
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 2: as a loser.

1231
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 3: Because if something happens her, she wants her three kids

1232
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 3: to be taken care of.

1233
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 11: Yeah.

1234
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 2: So it's earning and people understand that it got my

1235
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 2: got it, got it, got it.

1236
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 4: My experience, people will get a second insurance if they say,

1237
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 4: have more children. Yeah, because you are more expensive. I

1238
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 4: got to consider these things. Huh, yeah, you should do

1239
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 4: put it puts a mark on your back.

1240
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 2: R quick, we need some Should we go to a

1241
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 2: talk back? Let's do it.

1242
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 11: Let's do it.

1243
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 15: Hi, this is Alisha from New Jersey. I have two

1244
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 15: questions about the David case with the grand jury. For

1245
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 15: the I know they didn't indict him. How long do

1246
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 15: they have to wait until they can bring it to

1247
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 15: another grand jury, like if they get new evidence or

1248
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 15: is there a certain amount of time they have to

1249
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 15: wait or is there a certain amount of time that

1250
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 15: they can even bring it to the grand jury. And

1251
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 15: then my other question is if the family brings a

1252
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 15: civil suit against David, does any of the information from

1253
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 15: that grand jury is that able to be included in

1254
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 15: that or it's just always sealed forever.

1255
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 2: Thanks, Really good question, really good question.

1256
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 3: So they don't even have to go to grand jury though, right,

1257
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 3: they could have a prelimb, right, sure.

1258
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 7: Right, So that was a loaded question. That was a

1259
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 7: really good jury land.

1260
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 5: There's no timetable, really, you can. A grand jury is

1261
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 5: an odd animal in.

1262
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 7: The low Pennsylvania.

1263
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 5: We have the option of utilizing them. It's often a

1264
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 5: tool not only to indict, it's a tool to lock

1265
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:15,560
Speaker 5: testimony in so to bring people in David's inner circle,

1266
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 5: put them under oath, not of their own choosing. You're

1267
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 5: compelling their testimony.

1268
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 7: Right.

1269
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 5: A lawyer may say, hey, bring my guy in. He's

1270
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 5: not coming involuntarily, but if you put him under.

1271
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 7: Oath, he'll tell you the truth. Right.

1272
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 5: So it's often an investigative tool, so that testimony can

1273
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 5: be used in putting the case together and then ultimately indicting.

1274
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 5: The second part of the question was can the testimony

1275
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 5: be used the testimony before a grand jury is sealed,

1276
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 5: typically if it is unsealed and that person ultimately testifies

1277
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:51,479
Speaker 5: in another proceeding, Yes, it can be used in.

1278
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 7: A civil case.

1279
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 5: But again, the integrity of grand jury testimony is so

1280
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 5: it doesn't impact the criminal prosecution, So there are times

1281
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 5: when that testimony will be unsealed and subject to use

1282
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 5: later on because the person is under oath, right.

1283
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 3: And I don't know for those of you who remember,

1284
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 3: but you know, Brian Koberger was indicted via a grand

1285
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 3: jury and it was all very hush hush, and we

1286
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 3: only learned about some of the testimony in the grand

1287
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 3: jury because the judge referenced it in some of his

1288
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 3: opinions and he would say things like in the grand

1289
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 3: jury testimony, Dylan Mortenson said, da da.

1290
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 2: Da da da da da dah. And we were like, oh,

1291
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 2: so we were able to get pieces.

1292
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 3: So if you start reading the documents, you might find

1293
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 3: out some cool pieces of information. But of course, there's

1294
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 3: been no case yet in David's case, because this is

1295
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:45,799
Speaker 3: still an ongoing investigation. And for those who aren't familiar,

1296
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 3: a grand jury in Los Angeles did hear evidence in

1297
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 3: the case involving the death of fourteen year old Celeste

1298
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 3: Reevas Hernandez, whose remains were found on September eighth. So

1299
01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 3: what is that three and a half months ago?

1300
01:08:57,720 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 2: Now?

1301
01:08:58,600 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 7: Almost?

1302
01:08:59,520 --> 01:08:59,680
Speaker 1: Oh?

1303
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 2: My goodn No, September eighth, it's almost three months.

1304
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 3: Almost three months, Okay, Oh my goodness, I just can't

1305
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:07,679
Speaker 3: believe I quickly turns my.

1306
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 5: Point about a grand jury, though, that's worth noting. It's

1307
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 5: no longer just in the hands of the police. The

1308
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 5: das have taken over direction.

1309
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:20,680
Speaker 2: I had a different case, wouldn't you say, Like the

1310
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,759
Speaker 2: pace really changes at that point sometimes, and they've.

1311
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 7: Made some forward statements like things are.

1312
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 5: Going to happen, you know, and that's when the prosecutor says,

1313
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 5: you could take it.

1314
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 7: To the bank.

1315
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to say that's a little I heard

1316
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 2: it the same way. I was like, Oh, someone's foreshadowing

1317
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 2: a big moment. You're like giving a little Easter egg

1318
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 2: kind of because yeah, you know, there's a big moment

1319
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 2: coming soon. I thought it was going to be last week.

1320
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 2: I was way wrong. It doesn't appear that it's going

1321
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 2: to be this week either. What's the prediction.

1322
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 7: It's coming. I would say by the end of the year,

1323
01:09:57,360 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 7: by the end.

1324
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 2: It really depends on the end. It's dangerous to society.

1325
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 3: They're not going to want to go in front of

1326
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 3: another grand jury and have you know, witnesses come in

1327
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:09,839
Speaker 3: and testify again, because in a grand jury, witnesses can testify.

1328
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 3: They're not going to want to do that over and

1329
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 3: over and over again until they know they're going to

1330
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 3: get an indictment, so they're they're the da in la

1331
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 3: is going to want to make sure that he's got

1332
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 3: all his buttons, you.

1333
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:23,320
Speaker 2: Know, buttoned up and zipped. In my reelection, but like,

1334
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 2: I feel like things have gone much quicker and faster

1335
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:29,680
Speaker 2: in different cases period the end. That's number one and

1336
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:31,559
Speaker 2: number two end of year. Think about it. If this

1337
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 2: guy is an actual danger to society because he's hacking

1338
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 2: up fourteen year olds and leaving them in trunks and

1339
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 2: walking away and going on tour, that's pretty dangerous if

1340
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 2: in fact that's accurate. Right, But let's talk about this logically, right.

1341
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 3: We know that this trip to Santa Barbara happened in

1342
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 3: the springtime, okay, and she was found in September. So

1343
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 3: let's just say four to five months between the death

1344
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 3: of Celeste and her discovery. That's a long time to

1345
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 3: clean up e it's sure thing, right, right, that's a

1346
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:04,720
Speaker 3: long time because nobody she was missing, quote unquote missing.

1347
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 2: So nobody was really looking for her.

1348
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 3: I know that sounds kind of like insane, but because

1349
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 3: she was missing, nobody was really looking for her.

1350
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 2: That's so true, right.

1351
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 11: Well, if anything, I'm so sure.

1352
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 13: Another question that came up, like, why hasn't David been

1353
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 13: brought up on charges related to that inappropriate.

1354
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 3: R I would love to know that. I would love

1355
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:26,720
Speaker 3: to know that, Jared. So there is evidence of that.

1356
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:30,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, So the evidence of that that I've seen, and

1357
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 5: body correct me if I'm wrong.

1358
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:32,599
Speaker 7: It's a lot of.

1359
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 5: Internet speculator, a lot of photographs and things. But again,

1360
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 5: could do you glean from that they were in an

1361
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 5: inappropriate sexual relationship? I mean, certainly suspicious that he's hanging

1362
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:44,680
Speaker 5: around with somebody of such a young age, and they

1363
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 5: were certainly very close and acting close, and he supposedly

1364
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 5: wrote a song and all kinds of things. So it's

1365
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 5: certainly there's smoke there. But I don't know what evidence

1366
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 5: has been presented in support of that particular issue.

1367
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 3: For the only thing that we know is concrete, and

1368
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:06,599
Speaker 3: it could even be considered hearsay. Maybe is that David's

1369
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 3: friends say, you know, people that he was, you know,

1370
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 3: he saw that. They believed Celeste went to USC and

1371
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 3: was a nineteen year old, and they did not really mention.

1372
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 2: But she could have also been escaping a dangerous. You know,

1373
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 2: she ran away. She ran away many many times from

1374
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 2: a home. And again we're not saying anything disparaging about

1375
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 2: her home life. We don't know any of the details.

1376
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 2: But is it possible that she was like a fourteen

1377
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 2: year old hanger honor or groupie that just wanted to

1378
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 2: be in a safe space and David allowed that for her.

1379
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:41,800
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, it sounds inappropriate, but is

1380
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:47,000
Speaker 2: there a world that maybe she was around older people

1381
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 2: because she didn't have someplace else to be right, No,

1382
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 2: it's good.

1383
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 5: And all of that is possible. The answer is we

1384
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 5: don't know what has actually been put forward.

1385
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 7: Like I said, there's a lot of suspicious.

1386
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 5: Circumstances there, and why hasn't that charge come It's because

1387
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:08,080
Speaker 5: particular pieces of evidence of that relationship are not likely

1388
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:10,800
Speaker 5: have not likely been presented to the grand jury yet.

1389
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,599
Speaker 3: Or maybe it's just like the murder or you know,

1390
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 3: the reason that she's gone. There isn't enough evidence and

1391
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 3: the grand jury hasn't been able to indict him over

1392
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 3: it yet.

1393
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 5: You know, I bring that all together though, I would

1394
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 5: bring all of those charges together that I want the

1395
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,720
Speaker 5: jury to be as horrified that he's in a relationship

1396
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 5: with a fourteen.

1397
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 7: Year olds as he was, as they are if he

1398
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 7: killed her.

1399
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:38,200
Speaker 5: So I want them to know every detail in the

1400
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 5: event was going on.

1401
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 3: Can I ask you like a strategy question, and it

1402
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:43,639
Speaker 3: might be kind of stupid, but I'm gonna ask it anyway.

1403
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 2: Is there any world that.

1404
01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:48,679
Speaker 3: We live in where they bring him in on the

1405
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 3: you know, being with a minor and charge him with

1406
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 3: that and put him in jail and get him talking,

1407
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 3: and then, you know, and then present something in a

1408
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:02,719
Speaker 3: prelimited a hearing of some kind on the murder charters.

1409
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,600
Speaker 2: I'm surprised that hasn't happened. Is that a strategy or

1410
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 2: is that dumb?

1411
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:08,559
Speaker 7: No, it's not dumb.

1412
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 5: If it could be done, there's a million reasons to

1413
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:14,880
Speaker 5: do it that way. Let's say the murder prosecution is

1414
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 5: moving slower and you can't get it done. You want

1415
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:20,880
Speaker 5: to take clearly David, if he's the person off the street,

1416
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 5: you do it strategically. Get him talking in jail, get

1417
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,680
Speaker 5: him talking on the phones, get him I mean, but

1418
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 5: realistically breaking up those two cases strategically.

1419
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:31,519
Speaker 7: I'd want to bring them together.

1420
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 5: You can break them up too, because then you get

1421
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:36,439
Speaker 5: two shots at the guy, So I mean, that's another

1422
01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:37,320
Speaker 5: reason you can.

1423
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:39,720
Speaker 3: Can you now let me ask another dumb question, can

1424
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:43,680
Speaker 3: you fold them into the same I'm just saying, can

1425
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 3: you fold them into the same case at a later time?

1426
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 5: Like you can consolidate them later too. But if I'm

1427
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:55,839
Speaker 5: the defense lawyer, I don't. I would say, wait a minute,

1428
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 5: we're willing.

1429
01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:58,280
Speaker 7: To defend against this issue.

1430
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 5: We need to deal with their relations ship first, then

1431
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 5: her life. And there's an argument to buy furicate the too,

1432
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:11,360
Speaker 5: but again, you know the process. He has the option,

1433
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 5: you're losing.

1434
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 11: You're using fancy.

1435
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:16,640
Speaker 2: What did they say? What does a furicate mean? You

1436
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 2: said it so boldly? What does a mean? Do I

1437
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 2: to google it? Body? If we have to google? Right now?

1438
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:33,800
Speaker 13: Yeah, okay, I'm going to read the actual definition real time,

1439
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 13: so we're all going to learn together because I like it,

1440
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:37,040
Speaker 13: and then.

1441
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,960
Speaker 2: We're all going to use that all the time. I'm

1442
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 2: going to use it ten times tomorrow. Whoever says at

1443
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 2: the moment separate into two make in this in parentheses

1444
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 2: someone extremely angry or impatient? What does in fury cake infuriate?

1445
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 2: Is that what you googled? I just I'm for guessing.

1446
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 2: Is it bringing glasses are terrible.

1447
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:10,960
Speaker 11: Break into two. Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

1448
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:15,200
Speaker 5: You would infuriate the charges if you could bring them together,

1449
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 5: I'd make a motion to bipuricate.

1450
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 11: All right.

1451
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 2: I fascinating that.

1452
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 7: You would infuriate the prosecutors.

1453
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:25,480
Speaker 11: To infuriate the prosecute.

1454
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 7: Yes, right in.

1455
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 2: Minute by furiicate, Okay, I like it.

1456
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 4: So we have just about one minute, Jared, So this

1457
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 4: can be a quick question and answer in this case

1458
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 4: that there's been a lot of infighting it appears between

1459
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:46,960
Speaker 4: the police and the medical examiner. Is it unusual to

1460
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 4: see this publicly, to see this infighting?

1461
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 5: It's again I say this a lot in case, like

1462
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 5: it's not great when you have people that are supposed

1463
01:16:57,040 --> 01:17:00,960
Speaker 5: to be moving in the same direction fighting at this stage.

1464
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 7: I would always say.

1465
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:05,160
Speaker 5: Let the medical examiner do what they got to do.

1466
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:07,760
Speaker 5: The police do what they got like, police are not

1467
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 5: medical examiners. I don't know necessarily what the nature of

1468
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:13,080
Speaker 5: that fight is. I know there's been some delay and

1469
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:16,040
Speaker 5: results and things of that nature or statements that have

1470
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:20,160
Speaker 5: come out, but fighting within your prosecution and your key

1471
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:24,519
Speaker 5: witnesses is never good. Never good.

1472
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:31,880
Speaker 11: Does that sound effect, Jared?

1473
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:36,479
Speaker 2: Does what is happening right now.

1474
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:37,400
Speaker 11: It's frightening.

1475
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 2: Okay.

1476
01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 3: I don't know what that was, but Jared, thank you

1477
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:44,160
Speaker 3: for sticking around and putting up with us. We can't

1478
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:46,679
Speaker 3: thank you enough for helping us understand all the major

1479
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:49,120
Speaker 3: legal developments happening this week. You can find more of

1480
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:53,880
Speaker 3: Jarrett on Instagram and YouTube at Jared Farentino and pre

1481
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:57,719
Speaker 3: order is upcoming book on Amazon called Mothers, Murders and Motivation.

1482
01:17:57,840 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 2: Stick around because we've got more to get into.

1483
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:12,840
Speaker 4: Welcome back to true crime tonight. We are talking true

1484
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 4: crime all the time, and we have had the best

1485
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:20,760
Speaker 4: night with Jared Farantino as always, just bringing all the

1486
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 4: you know, legal strategy h and answering all of our

1487
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 4: questions and talkbacks and speaking of let's go to a

1488
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:28,479
Speaker 4: talk back now.

1489
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:32,759
Speaker 5: Hey, I'm brought long time listener, a long time caller.

1490
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:34,720
Speaker 5: I'm just wondering this.

1491
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:37,040
Speaker 3: Is a little bit off topic, but I'm wondering from

1492
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:41,160
Speaker 3: each of you real trees, real Christmas trees or our

1493
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 3: official Christmas trees.

1494
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 2: Thanks. Good question.

1495
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 4: Wow, I was like mustling up to you, like I

1496
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:52,840
Speaker 4: can answer this.

1497
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 11: Go ahead, Well, does anyone have a tree up?

1498
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 5: I do?

1499
01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, I've had it up since for two weeks

1500
01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:04,440
Speaker 2: and to be a show or a weirdo, totally artificial

1501
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:08,599
Speaker 2: all fronts. I have an artificial one with white lights

1502
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:11,800
Speaker 2: and ornaments, all bought from home goods and I love

1503
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:14,439
Speaker 2: it and it's big. And then I have a small

1504
01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:18,600
Speaker 2: one that's white. Don't hate me, go ahead, I know

1505
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 2: I've never done it before. First time a white Christmas

1506
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 2: tree and it only has like pastel colors and appreciate

1507
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:30,800
Speaker 2: pain colors and kind of pinks and rouges. And it's

1508
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:34,679
Speaker 2: in my other room that's like a like a suase den.

1509
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:38,759
Speaker 2: I have like a weird layout. So I'm double Christmas

1510
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:44,439
Speaker 2: treeing totally different styles. And the white one has multi

1511
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 2: colored lights, also artificial, and again I love and I

1512
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:54,040
Speaker 2: have a suddenly I'm in a Christmas spirit. So typically

1513
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:57,160
Speaker 2: last year I was putting it up twelve hours before Christmas.

1514
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:00,160
Speaker 2: So this is not new, this is a new behavior.

1515
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:03,960
Speaker 2: But like with the artificial ones, they were really inexpensive.

1516
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:07,840
Speaker 2: And you like step on a little like a light

1517
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 2: switch that you step on, and you can have it multicolored,

1518
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:13,120
Speaker 2: you could have it white, it could do you know,

1519
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 2: it could blink. I don't know why anybody would want

1520
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 2: the blinking. But when you're a kid, they're kind of fun. Yeah,

1521
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 2: when you're a kid, that is good point. So yeah,

1522
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:24,559
Speaker 2: I'm on board with. And then I have a little

1523
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 2: scent a dispenser diffuser that we've talked about. I got

1524
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:33,400
Speaker 2: as a gift and I put the Christmas scent in that,

1525
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:36,800
Speaker 2: and no one's going to know the difference. You might

1526
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:39,719
Speaker 2: totally don't think it's real though it doesn't look real.

1527
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 2: Neither of them do, right.

1528
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 11: What about your body or Courtney?

1529
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, mine as well as artificial, and it has it

1530
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 4: is up.

1531
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 2: I love it so much.

1532
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 4: And the way the plug goes so it kind of

1533
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:55,160
Speaker 4: my living room in kitchen you can see one from

1534
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 4: the other. And the light switch that Stephanie was talking

1535
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 4: about to switch the lights on my counter, which is

1536
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 4: very easy. And so depending upon who's in the room,

1537
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:07,080
Speaker 4: it's white when I'm in if my kid, it can.

1538
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:09,080
Speaker 2: Be colored, it can be colored. I'm blinking, it can

1539
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:13,880
Speaker 2: be That's what's up in my house about you guys.

1540
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 2: I don't have one.

1541
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 3: I'm like you, Yeah, I I but I when I

1542
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:25,280
Speaker 3: when I do, I prefer the real trees. But you know, listen,

1543
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 3: I live alone. I'm you know, in my fifties. Now

1544
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 3: it's okay, you.

1545
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:30,559
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.

1546
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:31,120
Speaker 11: It's difficult.

1547
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:33,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I.

1548
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:35,599
Speaker 3: So what I've done is I bought like a little

1549
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:37,240
Speaker 3: Charlie Brown Christmas tree, do you know what I mean,

1550
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:41,000
Speaker 3: like those little love and it sits on like an

1551
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 3: end table kind of thing.

1552
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:43,240
Speaker 2: It's like maybe.

1553
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:45,760
Speaker 3: Two feet tall, and I just haven't put it. I

1554
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:47,280
Speaker 3: just haven't put it up yet, but I will.

1555
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:52,040
Speaker 11: You're gonna put it up, Okay. I love traveling for

1556
01:21:52,080 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 11: the holidays.

1557
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:54,760
Speaker 2: And I'm traveling for the holidays.

1558
01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 5: So what I get.

1559
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:59,040
Speaker 13: But then I did I help friends decorate theirs this

1560
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:01,599
Speaker 13: past weekend, and I was like, gosh, it would be nice,

1561
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 13: and there's.

1562
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:03,120
Speaker 11: Just real that it was beautiful.

1563
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:05,679
Speaker 13: It costs two hundred dollars, so that was maybe twice

1564
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 13: about it.

1565
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 11: But I'm like, a real tree is amazing.

1566
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:10,920
Speaker 2: I do love a real tree. I do well they

1567
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:14,200
Speaker 2: burn down, so I have hesitation for the care. And

1568
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 2: also there is a little bit of pressure because I've

1569
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,559
Speaker 2: always been the like last minute tree person of like

1570
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,679
Speaker 2: do you have your tree? Yeah, it's supposed to be festive.

1571
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:26,920
Speaker 2: There is a lot of like tree pressure. So I

1572
01:22:26,960 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 2: was feeling a little bit of like you know what,

1573
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,120
Speaker 2: I want to take that back. I want to solve

1574
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 2: the tree problems really right now. The artificial tree is

1575
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 2: real easy. I love artist is hard. And I reacted

1576
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:42,519
Speaker 2: because I was like, oh no, no, no, like you

1577
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,840
Speaker 2: can get it. The easiest tree you literally it is

1578
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 2: Dubby proof. Trust it. Take it for me. It is

1579
01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:50,800
Speaker 2: your other thing is to but I get it. I

1580
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:53,680
Speaker 2: get it, and you're traveling and that is so I

1581
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:55,360
Speaker 2: just want to take back the pressure that you might

1582
01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:55,960
Speaker 2: have just felt.

1583
01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:58,559
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I'm kind of teasing, but I'm to

1584
01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:02,400
Speaker 3: be an all serious note. My mom's dog who I have, Yogi.

1585
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:04,960
Speaker 3: You know, she passed away and I have Yogi, and

1586
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 3: he likes to pee on the tree.

1587
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 2: So that's another reason, do you know what I mean?

1588
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:14,559
Speaker 2: Like I was going to send you a tree tomorrow,

1589
01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:16,240
Speaker 2: but not solve it.

1590
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:18,120
Speaker 11: Love it.

1591
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:21,280
Speaker 3: He likes to pee on the It's annoying because I

1592
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:22,720
Speaker 3: have a real tree and he's like, oh, this is

1593
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:25,400
Speaker 3: for me, you know. So that's when I kind of

1594
01:23:25,439 --> 01:23:29,880
Speaker 3: switched as well to the artificial little Charlie Brown tree.

1595
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:31,519
Speaker 2: I just get it out of the garage and put

1596
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:34,759
Speaker 2: it up. I just haven't like the Charlie Brown's always

1597
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:37,080
Speaker 2: sounds because I've had it. I've done it for so long.

1598
01:23:37,240 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 2: Why do I suddenly inner Chris? I feel like I'm

1599
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:43,479
Speaker 2: pushing christ Christmas Christmas pusher all of a sudden. I

1600
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:48,040
Speaker 2: hated the Christmas pusher last Yeary, I'm just turning over

1601
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:50,839
Speaker 2: and this is this is a new thing. Yeah.

1602
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:53,439
Speaker 3: No, I love the Christmas. I love Christmas spirit. I

1603
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 3: love all the lights, I love the decorations. I love

1604
01:23:56,320 --> 01:24:00,840
Speaker 3: everything about Christmas. I just haven't It's just so I've been.

1605
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:03,800
Speaker 2: To I know, I don't know why all of a sudden,

1606
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:06,080
Speaker 2: I crossed over last year. This time last year, I

1607
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 2: was like, if somebody talks more to me about trees

1608
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:14,840
Speaker 2: and Christmas, they're gonna alone. It's their own though, and

1609
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:16,599
Speaker 2: that is the truth.

1610
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:19,360
Speaker 11: Yeah, Adam, do you and Rita have a tree?

1611
01:24:20,040 --> 01:24:20,120
Speaker 4: No?

1612
01:24:20,439 --> 01:24:23,400
Speaker 6: You know, I mean I hardly have any space in

1613
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:25,600
Speaker 6: my apartment for Rita herself.

1614
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:28,519
Speaker 2: But but I'll go.

1615
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:31,000
Speaker 6: Home and my mom will have the tree set up

1616
01:24:31,160 --> 01:24:31,880
Speaker 6: and you know.

1617
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:35,160
Speaker 11: There you about Sam, Sam, do you have a tree?

1618
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:38,719
Speaker 6: I'm like, body, I sort of have like a little

1619
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 6: mini Christmas tree that's like less than two feet.

1620
01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:49,360
Speaker 2: I imagine Sam's is black like guitar picks.

1621
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 11: That's cool.

1622
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:54,760
Speaker 2: Cool tree, right like that? If I sent you a

1623
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:58,000
Speaker 2: tree tomorrow, everybody would be annoyed because they're leaving and

1624
01:24:58,080 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 2: everybody's peeing on it.

1625
01:24:59,600 --> 01:24:59,800
Speaker 7: Is that?

1626
01:25:00,560 --> 01:25:03,439
Speaker 2: Yeah? Pretty much? Pretty much? I have one. I just

1627
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:05,559
Speaker 2: haven't put it up, okay, So that's where my brainwen.

1628
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:07,800
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I can solve that tomorrow. Oh no,

1629
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 2: it's not. Yeah, you're just king on it. And then

1630
01:25:11,479 --> 01:25:13,360
Speaker 2: Ta has gone and he's like, I end up with this.

1631
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 2: Damn s Trea. She wants a photo.

1632
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:20,639
Speaker 6: What do you guys do about ornaments? Do you have

1633
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:23,640
Speaker 6: like uniform ornaments or crazy ones or what?

1634
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:26,320
Speaker 2: I buy new ones every year? I did, and I

1635
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:28,559
Speaker 2: had a theme. I would do a theme every year,

1636
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:32,879
Speaker 2: like candy canes and wheels or you know, a traditional

1637
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:33,720
Speaker 2: like popcorn.

1638
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:36,240
Speaker 3: I would do a theme every year, or I would

1639
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:38,559
Speaker 3: if I had like five different themes in my garage,

1640
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 3: I would just pull one, you know what I mean,

1641
01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 3: Like that's what I like.

1642
01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:46,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cool and you do home goods and listen. Honestly,

1643
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 2: one of the very few things that I have from

1644
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:53,200
Speaker 2: the fires are some really awesome ornaments, so you know,

1645
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:57,240
Speaker 2: you could imagine they're so they feel so important. Suddenly

1646
01:25:57,240 --> 01:25:59,800
Speaker 2: I'm crazy for the ornaments that live to tell the tale.

1647
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:03,240
Speaker 2: And then everything else and I want to say, every

1648
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:06,160
Speaker 2: single thing in my house at this point, which I

1649
01:26:06,240 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 2: love so much and it's like furnished and totally functional

1650
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 2: now is from Home Goods. Is from Home Goods or Wayfair,

1651
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:17,760
Speaker 2: which has a small shelf life because you've got to

1652
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:21,280
Speaker 2: put things together. No offense to Wayfair good product, but

1653
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:26,800
Speaker 2: putting furniture together is real bear. And but at Home

1654
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:28,719
Speaker 2: Goods you can walk out with the weird side table

1655
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 2: or the ornaments or you know, the Christmas lights, and boy,

1656
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:36,439
Speaker 2: there was a lot of Christmas selections. So I feel

1657
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:40,120
Speaker 2: like it's one category this year that I can really

1658
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:45,080
Speaker 2: throw down and I'm all about it. I'm into Christmas

1659
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:48,519
Speaker 2: this year way more than any other year before, and

1660
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:49,479
Speaker 2: I'm starting new.

1661
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:53,720
Speaker 11: I love that. Yay, Christmas is special for me.

1662
01:26:54,840 --> 01:27:03,040
Speaker 3: Yes, wait, Christmas Day Christmas.

1663
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:07,639
Speaker 2: Baby, which kind of hard to have a birthday party. Yeah,

1664
01:27:07,720 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 2: it's the worst.

1665
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:09,760
Speaker 11: We had a birthday party.

1666
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:13,320
Speaker 2: Birthdays on Christmas Eve. So yeah, oh my god, we're

1667
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:17,639
Speaker 2: gonna have to do that for you this year. Would

1668
01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:19,760
Speaker 2: it be a better if it was a before or

1669
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:20,799
Speaker 2: after birthday?

1670
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:23,000
Speaker 13: That's what if someone has said to me before they

1671
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:25,559
Speaker 13: know Christmas babies who do like do a halfway point

1672
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:30,000
Speaker 13: like a summer silly, it feels weird. I usually wind

1673
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:32,759
Speaker 13: up celebrating it late. And then of course everyone always

1674
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:34,920
Speaker 13: asked you get cheated out of gifts? Yes, I've actually

1675
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:37,760
Speaker 13: of course you do a set of gloves like one

1676
01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:39,040
Speaker 13: glove is for a Christmas the.

1677
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:46,040
Speaker 2: Other where they can put those gloves? Yeah, thank you. Yeah, guys,

1678
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:47,240
Speaker 2: you got to do a celebrate.

1679
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:53,240
Speaker 13: How about my first Chris Christmas wish is to play

1680
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 13: another talk back because I have a good topic.

1681
01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:58,240
Speaker 2: I wanted to do. Let's get you it in honor

1682
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 2: of your birthday. Absolutely, yo, you guys.

1683
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:08,280
Speaker 3: The Shawan Comb's documentary fifty cent went hard on this one.

1684
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:10,839
Speaker 2: This this is wild.

1685
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 3: It's just going off since day one and like way

1686
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:20,960
Speaker 3: to break it down, like the history and this is nuts.

1687
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:23,720
Speaker 2: If you haven't watched it, highly recommend.

1688
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:26,960
Speaker 3: Wow, Am, we're from north of Boston, get into it.

1689
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:34,639
Speaker 2: Animal. I had to say it. We're supposed to be

1690
01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 2: best friends. I wish I was in the car with

1691
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:40,639
Speaker 2: you driving across country right now talking about Diddy. I

1692
01:28:40,680 --> 01:28:43,439
Speaker 2: think they lay it on. They do it like heavy

1693
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:45,920
Speaker 2: sometimes and then they slow it down and then they

1694
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:48,280
Speaker 2: give you a little history lesson that might seem boring,

1695
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:54,040
Speaker 2: but it is off. It annihilates. Definitely want it. I

1696
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:55,920
Speaker 2: started to watch it last night, but I was I'm

1697
01:28:55,960 --> 01:28:59,719
Speaker 2: overselling it. I'm overselling and I are over selling.

1698
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:01,759
Speaker 11: I don't like I think.

1699
01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:05,840
Speaker 2: It people fifty cent thing I thought was going to

1700
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:09,720
Speaker 2: add like a perspective that was maybe his, and I

1701
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:12,160
Speaker 2: got to give credit where credit due and listen. I

1702
01:29:12,280 --> 01:29:16,960
Speaker 2: like documentaries. I make documentaries. This one is not. It

1703
01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:20,720
Speaker 2: seems really weighted and it doesn't seem slanted, and I

1704
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:23,519
Speaker 2: think he has to be sitting back and giggling because

1705
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:27,400
Speaker 2: the director did an awesome job, and it does. It

1706
01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:31,800
Speaker 2: has powerful moments, it has new moments, It fills in

1707
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:34,680
Speaker 2: a few blanks that I never knew, and like just

1708
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:38,120
Speaker 2: there is a little history lesson in it, but it

1709
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:42,679
Speaker 2: it annihilates him in a very classy, graceful way.

1710
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:44,920
Speaker 11: Okay, I can't wait.

1711
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:48,760
Speaker 2: It's not heavy handed. It's not a reality trashy like

1712
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:49,800
Speaker 2: a trash piece.

1713
01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:53,920
Speaker 11: It's just not okay, you we talked about this already.

1714
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:56,240
Speaker 13: I'm just going to ask for if someone called earlier,

1715
01:29:56,439 --> 01:29:58,360
Speaker 13: but we had Jarrett, so we couldn't take the call,

1716
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 13: and they didn't want to wait around, and they sent

1717
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:03,960
Speaker 13: their question oh, which was they were on hold, and

1718
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:05,880
Speaker 13: I guess they hung up, but they really wanted to ask,

1719
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:09,000
Speaker 13: can you explain how the documentary got the ditty footage

1720
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:09,840
Speaker 13: that he's yes?

1721
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:12,880
Speaker 2: So, well, we're actually digging into it real time because

1722
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:17,800
Speaker 2: I'm dying to know. So my understanding is it's two parts.

1723
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:21,240
Speaker 2: There's like a theoretical understanding and we don't have the

1724
01:30:21,320 --> 01:30:27,240
Speaker 2: exact deep but Diddy's team, apparently his lawyers are very

1725
01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:30,960
Speaker 2: very angry, and he's very very angry behind bars, and

1726
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 2: when you watch the documentary there are parts of it

1727
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:37,840
Speaker 2: that you'll see that he will truly enjoy. However, it

1728
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:41,880
Speaker 2: does bring him squarely to account and accountability and a

1729
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:44,080
Speaker 2: couple of key things that I think unless you look

1730
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:47,719
Speaker 2: at the totality of Diddy, it gets blossed over real quick.

1731
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:52,160
Speaker 2: So the footage, imagine the guy we talked about this

1732
01:30:52,240 --> 01:30:55,640
Speaker 2: last night. So this guy has a he hires a

1733
01:30:55,680 --> 01:30:59,479
Speaker 2: filmmaker with a crew to follow him around because in

1734
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 2: his mind, and he's that interesting that he should have

1735
01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:06,560
Speaker 2: a film camera following him at all times. So allegedly

1736
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:10,400
Speaker 2: he followed he had this guy and perhaps didn't pay him,

1737
01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 2: perhaps allegedly allegedly allegedly, suddenly it became hard to get

1738
01:31:15,880 --> 01:31:19,240
Speaker 2: paid when you're going to prison and you're in a

1739
01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:23,360
Speaker 2: trial and suddenly you're behind bars, and it became call

1740
01:31:23,479 --> 01:31:25,600
Speaker 2: my this, call my that. This is the alleged this

1741
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:30,439
Speaker 2: is the what is the word again, the scatterbotch subtle.

1742
01:31:33,080 --> 01:31:38,120
Speaker 2: So this is allegedly, allegedly, allegedly allegedly that this filmmaker

1743
01:31:38,160 --> 01:31:42,280
Speaker 2: takes all this time to follow him around this like spngali,

1744
01:31:42,439 --> 01:31:51,000
Speaker 2: this narcissist around town, and then gets stiffed. Then legally, wait,

1745
01:31:51,080 --> 01:31:53,120
Speaker 2: watch the dop when you talk when you say legally,

1746
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:58,679
Speaker 2: there's no such thing. Legally and nobody pays anybody. Everyone's

1747
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:00,920
Speaker 2: I could hire anybody, but oh yeah, I'm gonna pay you.

1748
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:04,320
Speaker 2: After then I'm in court and then I'm behind bars.

1749
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:06,880
Speaker 2: You're like, call my business managiner, call this guy called

1750
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:11,160
Speaker 2: this guy, and suddenly fifty cent gets it. I mean,

1751
01:32:11,800 --> 01:32:13,919
Speaker 2: and I'm sure they went through all the legal channels.

1752
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:16,720
Speaker 2: Trust me when I tell you that Netflix and the

1753
01:32:16,720 --> 01:32:21,559
Speaker 2: production company and the director, they are legally vetted. You know,

1754
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:26,240
Speaker 2: we do is vetted so did. He can probably cry

1755
01:32:26,240 --> 01:32:29,840
Speaker 2: all he wants, but likely this filmmaker was like, what

1756
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:33,439
Speaker 2: am I holding this film? I'm holding the bag right

1757
01:32:33,479 --> 01:32:36,160
Speaker 2: now and I may as well get paid. And by

1758
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:38,120
Speaker 2: the way, it's not a ton of it, but it's

1759
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 2: enough to just show the behive in the moment and

1760
01:32:43,439 --> 01:32:47,640
Speaker 2: that in contrast to where did he had been? And

1761
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 2: there's so many pieces of it that, honestly, as a

1762
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:53,519
Speaker 2: person who just is impressionable and listens to pop culture,

1763
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:57,519
Speaker 2: I had to question myself. Honestly, it's a real look

1764
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:00,960
Speaker 2: at ourselves because I really jumped into the conversation at

1765
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:06,280
Speaker 2: the JLO moment and thereafter, and so much had happened prior.

1766
01:33:07,560 --> 01:33:10,960
Speaker 2: I didn't see the totality of Diddy. I didn't remember

1767
01:33:11,960 --> 01:33:14,360
Speaker 2: I met him. I met him at a Versace dress

1768
01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:16,519
Speaker 2: and then I like kind of went with it, and oh,

1769
01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:19,920
Speaker 2: the best friend of Biggie who he was like a victim?

1770
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:22,479
Speaker 2: Was he a victim or was he a victim of

1771
01:33:22,479 --> 01:33:25,000
Speaker 2: something that he actually was a part of? And that

1772
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 2: is just a really critical, nuanced thing that I think

1773
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:30,720
Speaker 2: they do really well. I can't wait to talk to

1774
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:34,439
Speaker 2: you guys about it. Keep the talk backs coming. Boston. Listen,

1775
01:33:34,479 --> 01:33:37,160
Speaker 2: we're going to be back tomorrow. So I can't believe

1776
01:33:37,160 --> 01:33:40,880
Speaker 2: it's Thursday. Tomorrow. There are all of these cases and more.

1777
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:43,680
Speaker 2: We will be back. Thank you for listening. We love you.

1778
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:47,280
Speaker 2: Thank you Jared for being such a great prosecutor. Stay

1779
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:49,519
Speaker 2: safe out there, and we will see you tomorrow