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Speaker 1: With Nick Eatman, Brian brought us and bar Garcia and
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Speaker 4: It is Wednesday, May thirty, first, twenty twenty three, season nineteen,
Speaker 4: episode number nine. Welcome to the latest edition of The Break.
Speaker 4: We're a live from the SWBC Mortgage studios at the Star.
Speaker 4: Got Nick and Brian here with me and we should
Speaker 4: be joining us here momentarily. Today we continue our twenty
Speaker 4: twenty three off season review. We will hit the positions
Speaker 4: of wide receiver, tight end, might even have a little
Speaker 4: bit of kicker talking there. Before next week we wrap
Speaker 4: up our off season shows with some with a look
Speaker 4: at the secondary and defensive line next week as we
Speaker 4: get ready for a little bit of rest and relaxation
Speaker 4: before we had to training camp in late July.
Speaker 2: All right, how you guys doing today? Good? Excellent?
Speaker 5: Roll?
Speaker 2: Yes, sir? All right, let's go.
Speaker 4: Let's talk first before we get into our season review,
Speaker 4: I do want to talk about a topic that popped
Speaker 4: up this last week. One DeAndre DeAndre Hopkins, wide receiver
Speaker 4: that was with the Arizona Cardinals and is now a
Speaker 4: free agent.
Speaker 2: That's a key word. He's a free agent.
Speaker 4: He is now a free agency now Bryant officially, you
Speaker 4: can mention his name, you can talk about him as
Speaker 4: much as you like. There you go, what do you
Speaker 4: see from DeAndre Hopkins as far as where he is
Speaker 4: right now as a player versus what he was when
Speaker 4: he was in Houston. Let's say, for example.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, the thing with DeAndre Hopkins is if
Speaker 6: you talk to guys and gals around the league that
Speaker 6: study these players, they feel like the DeAndre Hopkins has
Speaker 6: lost a step or two, but where he is tremendous is.
Speaker 2: His ability to make the contested catches.
Speaker 6: As he's lost speed and the quickness, his ability to
Speaker 6: still make those adjusting, you know, contested catches is still
Speaker 6: at as at a.
Speaker 2: Very high point.
Speaker 6: So what you have with DeAndre Hopkins is a very
Speaker 6: reliable receiver, one that high targets mean high receptions. He's
Speaker 6: going to find ways to use his body position himself
Speaker 6: run routes enabled himself to get open, present himself as
Speaker 6: a good target so to you know, to the teams
Speaker 6: that are looking at him right now, you know, everybody's
Speaker 6: trying to kind of guess where he might end up.
Speaker 6: Buffalo talks about it, Kansas City talks about it. You know,
Speaker 6: there's all kinds you could get odds on all kinds
Speaker 6: of teams. I've seen the Cowboys mentioned as part of
Speaker 6: one of those teams. But man, the guy still plays
Speaker 6: at a very very high level. Though, but people are
Speaker 6: saying though that watch the tape on him. The speed
Speaker 6: is really starting to lack from him.
Speaker 4: Would you think he'd be a fit here in Dallas
Speaker 4: right now?
Speaker 7: Yeah, No, I don't, not, not for everything involved. Not
Speaker 7: I mean good player. Sure, this team needs good players,
Speaker 7: especially on offense. They need playmakers. We saw that Twler
Speaker 7: season ended, But I don't think so when it comes
Speaker 7: to what the money. If people think that he can
Speaker 7: still play, he definitely thinks he can still play. When
Speaker 7: you think you can still play, you get the money.
Speaker 7: And Odell Beckham's contract showed him and the rest of
Speaker 7: the league of what that type of guy can still get.
Speaker 7: And that's the well it was fifteen million a year
Speaker 7: or something like that for fifteen Yeah, I mean so
Speaker 7: if that's kind of the standard, and I think that's fair.
Speaker 7: I mean that for for Hopkins, if I'm looking at Beckham,
Speaker 7: I'm not coming off the same injury that he is,
Speaker 7: So I'm thinking, yeah, that that would probably be We'll
Speaker 7: start there. And so I just don't think from that standpoint.
Speaker 7: And then also where it fits. I mean, this is
Speaker 7: probably I think they have a top five receiver in
Speaker 7: the league, the Cowboys do. That's what the stats show,
Speaker 7: that's what All Pro, second team, All Pro so CD
Speaker 7: second second receiver. If it's Cooks, it's pretty accomplished for
Speaker 7: a second receiver. If Gallup is your third, that's pretty accomplished.
Speaker 7: I don't I knew I should have looked this stat
Speaker 7: up this summer, but I still want to. I don't
Speaker 7: know how many teams in the league have three one
Speaker 7: thousand yard receivers on their team. So that being said,
Speaker 7: this is a good team, they'll be. This is a
Speaker 7: good receiving corps right now. That's why I'm not worried
Speaker 7: about a lot of people are worried about. For four
Speaker 7: or five or six, that'll work itself. Out. So all
Speaker 7: that being said, sorry to be long winded. I don't
Speaker 7: think Hopkins fits from the where the Cowboys are right
Speaker 7: this month.
Speaker 6: If I could circle back, I did have somebody in
Speaker 6: the league tell me this, and I think it kind
Speaker 6: of paints the.
Speaker 2: Picture of really what Hopkins is.
Speaker 6: I remembered that I had this and I talked about
Speaker 6: this on one oh five to three the fans. So
Speaker 6: if you're one of those folks that listen to this
Speaker 6: show and listen, and we really do appreciate you for that.
Speaker 6: But this gentleman said, depends on what he's asking for,
Speaker 6: who's willing to pay it. Odell Beckham, we were talked
Speaker 6: about here set the marker for wide receivers and didn't
Speaker 6: play last year. Hopkins is probably once to be paid regardless,
Speaker 6: And this guy said, I don't foresee much wiggle room
Speaker 6: from whatever he perceives his value to be. So that's
Speaker 6: what you're dealing with right now. If Hopkins has a
Speaker 6: and there were rumors that we talked about on the
Speaker 6: radio side of things that I do of when Hopkins
Speaker 6: was here working out in the dockyard and doing things
Speaker 6: like that, that maybe if he got the opportunity, if
Speaker 6: the Cowboys in fact, had made the trade that he
Speaker 6: would be willing to do something with his contract, much
Speaker 6: like with what Cooks and others have done since they've
Speaker 6: come to the Cowboys. So me personally, me personally, I
Speaker 6: would have made the trade before you did.
Speaker 2: The Brandon Cooks. I see what they did.
Speaker 6: They wanted Brandon Cooks. They wanted Brandon Cooks at the
Speaker 6: trade deadline last year. They feel like that Brandon Cooks
Speaker 6: is a better player. I think for your quarterback that
Speaker 6: you know, adding Cooks is out standing. I think adding
Speaker 6: Hopkins would have been outstanding too, So I think they
Speaker 6: kind of win either way. Again, it comes down to
Speaker 6: what their money situation is. They got a better deal
Speaker 6: on Cooks than maybe what they were going to get
Speaker 6: from Hopkins.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and Hopkins obviously, you know, I'm not trying to
Speaker 7: be naive to the situation. And he's a more accomplished
Speaker 7: receiver than any of those three that the Cowboys have
Speaker 7: right now. But you know, you have to structure your
Speaker 7: team in a way where I just don't think this
Speaker 7: is the issue. There are at OTAs this week, Mini
Speaker 7: Camp next week. I see Cooks, I see CD Lamp,
Speaker 7: I see Michael gallup with that, and I think that's
Speaker 7: really important. And so you're right about Hopkins versus Cooks.
Speaker 7: But the fact that is right now, Cooks is out
Speaker 7: here working and they're establishing something. So you know, there's
Speaker 7: just probably a better fit with more money for Hopkins
Speaker 7: than I think right here. I would think, for.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're probably teams that are willing to pay him
Speaker 4: like a number one receiver. I would guess, yeah, I
Speaker 4: would guess there are a few. I mean that My
Speaker 4: suspicion is the reason why he's no longer in Arizona
Speaker 4: is because they weren't willing to pay thirty million, and
Speaker 4: that's the reported amount that he was going to be
Speaker 4: due this year. But the fact of the matter is
Speaker 4: there may be a team out there's willing to pay
Speaker 4: seventeen or eighteen, right, and so it still would be
Speaker 4: more than you would think the Cowboys would be willing
Speaker 4: to pay, and certainly more than they're probably willing to
Speaker 4: pay when they know they got CD coming up here
Speaker 4: that they have to do a new deal.
Speaker 6: Long I think we're to the point now too where
Speaker 6: we're going to start to see money come back from
Speaker 6: June one reduction. Certain teams that have moved on from
Speaker 6: and you know, in the Cowboys case, we were talking
Speaker 6: about it last week on our show here about that
Speaker 6: money tends to If you ask the guys here in
Speaker 6: the building, hey, seventeen million dollars cab space, they look
Speaker 6: at you and they say, no, no, that money is
Speaker 6: already earmarked for other projects that we have to do.
Speaker 6: And they've got guys they have to sign. They've got
Speaker 6: some guys coming up that they could surely use that money.
Speaker 7: I think if you're a Cowboy fan and you know
Speaker 7: it's not going to happen here, then you know you
Speaker 7: cheer for the Bills even though the Cowboys got to
Speaker 7: play the Bills or the Chiefs. Yeah, you know, because
Speaker 7: Cleveland's a.
Speaker 2: Team you have to find out too. Yeah.
Speaker 7: But in the NFC, the team that makes the most
Speaker 7: sense if they've got the money, I don't know what
Speaker 7: their money looks like is the Giants. Oh I know,
Speaker 7: I want to see that, but the Giants, you know,
Speaker 7: And the thing about Hopkins and Daniel Jones is a
Speaker 7: is a good quarterback. Okay, he's not great, He's just
Speaker 7: a good quarterback.
Speaker 2: But they got a lot out of him that I
Speaker 2: didn't truth. They were gonna get. But I mean that
Speaker 2: was coaching right there.
Speaker 7: But if you play fantasy football and you've had Hopkins
Speaker 7: on your team, you know this. It doesn't matter who
Speaker 7: his quarterback is. He he's he produced.
Speaker 2: His high volume.
Speaker 7: That's the so it doesn't really matter who he's playing with.
Speaker 4: And he's a bad ball catcher. So for a quarterback
Speaker 4: that isn't the most accurate, he makes them look really,
Speaker 4: really good because he'll catch the ball. You put it
Speaker 4: in his radius, and he's got along radius. You put
Speaker 4: in his radius, he's going to catch it.
Speaker 2: As we ask God, as we speak today.
Speaker 7: You remember that clip, sorry, you remember that clip of
Speaker 7: him and D'Angelo Hall getting into a fire. Yeah, and
Speaker 7: Hall wanted to fight him, and he just kept saying,
Speaker 7: I fear God, I fear guy that like, I don't
Speaker 7: fear anybody else but you. And then like five minutes later,
Speaker 7: he like gives them a double move.
Speaker 4: And it wasn't that the end of because we can't
Speaker 4: a broadcaster after that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, uh, as we speak today.
Speaker 2: And this is just this is from overthecap dot com.
Speaker 2: This is who I'll use.
Speaker 7: They're good, Yeah, they're good.
Speaker 6: Three point eight million dollars with the Giants on there.
Speaker 6: He don't have a lot of money on their cap
Speaker 6: space right now. So that's where they're at. The Giants
Speaker 6: are at three.
Speaker 4: Point the team like the Giants, if i'm them, I
Speaker 4: would if if you're really wanting to do it, you
Speaker 4: probably get rid of a couple of guys in order
Speaker 4: to be able to pick up a guy like him,
Speaker 4: because he would be that that that person on their
Speaker 4: offense outside of the running back, that could draw a
Speaker 4: lot of attention, which I don't think they necessarily have
Speaker 4: right now.
Speaker 6: They don't have a U If I'm reading this right,
Speaker 6: I think I am. Uh Wanda Robinson, who I believe
Speaker 6: is in his second year is their.
Speaker 2: Highest priced receiver. Yeah, on that team.
Speaker 6: So to your everybody's point here, the Giants could absolutely
Speaker 6: use some skill.
Speaker 2: And then and you mentioned the bad ball catcher.
Speaker 6: I mean that that's the one thing that I was
Speaker 6: thinking about if you're adding for Dak. And again it's
Speaker 6: people say, oh, you're saying Dak's a bad ball thrower.
Speaker 2: No, I'm just.
Speaker 6: Saying, though, if things are off target, whether it's Dak
Speaker 6: or Cooper Rush or whoever's throwing him the ball, he
Speaker 6: has this ability to go get it, and his catch
Speaker 6: radius is quite large for the position.
Speaker 4: Yep, all right, we're gonna take our first break. We're
Speaker 4: gonna come back. We're going to dive a little deeper
Speaker 4: into the wide receiver position. Nick already told us that
Speaker 4: he thinks Ceedee Lamb's a top five receiver. I'm gonna
Speaker 4: ask that question to Brian as well. Where does he
Speaker 4: rate relative to other NFL wide receivers, and then we'll
Speaker 4: talk a little bit more about the depth at that position.
Speaker 4: Will be back Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio.
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Speaker 2: Back to the break.
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Speaker 2: Welcome Back.
Speaker 4: It is the second segment of The break Real Live
Speaker 4: from the SWBC Mortgage Studios. At the start of the
Speaker 4: second presented to you by blockchain dot Com. All right,
Speaker 4: we're talking about the twenty twenty three off season, heading
Speaker 4: into the twenty twenty three season, and we're trying to
Speaker 4: figure out if the Cowboys are better worse the same
Speaker 4: great weaknesses strengths of each position. We're going to talk
Speaker 4: about wide receiver now, Ceede Lamb we Nick. You mentioned
Speaker 4: him in the last segment saying he was a five
Speaker 4: in your opinion of top five wide receiver. I think
Speaker 4: you saw some stats there during the break.
Speaker 7: I kind of loosely said it and thinking that sounds
Speaker 7: about it, all right, Well, when you're a second team
Speaker 7: All Pro, you know, I would think that's about where
Speaker 7: you are, you know. But we looked up the stats.
Speaker 7: I was like, let me just see about this and
Speaker 7: his receptions. He's sixth among receivers in in yards he's fourth,
Speaker 7: and in touchdowns he's fifth.
Speaker 2: So's to.
Speaker 4: Z Brian, where do you think he ranks? Like in
Speaker 4: the pantheon of NFL receivers right now?
Speaker 7: Where is he now?
Speaker 2: Where where you when you look at him? Overall?
Speaker 6: His ability to get open I think is at a
Speaker 6: very very high level.
Speaker 2: His ability to make the catch.
Speaker 6: Is somewhere probably in the in the top five, six
Speaker 6: seven area.
Speaker 2: I think that's the you know, that's the one.
Speaker 6: Yards after the catch is another one that you kind
Speaker 6: of look at and you see that he'll make the
Speaker 6: plays down the field, not much after the catch when
Speaker 6: you when you talk, we saw that he won the
Speaker 6: New England game with a catch that was after run
Speaker 6: after catch, But most of his stuff has been down
Speaker 6: the field, making the play, you know, securing the ball,
Speaker 6: taking the hit and get down. But his ability to
Speaker 6: get open stuff like he's in that range of either
Speaker 6: five to eight when it comes to starting to compare
Speaker 6: him with the metrics that teams use to evaluate receivers.
Speaker 7: You know, the top you say eight guys. Really when
Speaker 7: you look at the six seven, eight guys, you're talking
Speaker 7: about number two receivers on their own team. Waddle, yeah,
Speaker 7: and DeVante Smith, which those are both really good receivers,
Speaker 7: but I think it's really six guys Jefferson, Tyreek Hill,
Speaker 7: DeVante Adams, AJ Brown, Steffon Diggs, CD Lamp wherever you
Speaker 7: want top that's your top six and receiving yards, that's
Speaker 7: your top six really for the most part in catches.
Speaker 7: So it's kind of what type of player you like.
Speaker 7: You know, watching that Texas OU game, the one that
Speaker 7: ceed Lamb just went crazy for three touchdowns. I really
Speaker 7: thought and there was a Kansas State game too, I
Speaker 7: thought that CD would have a little more run after catch. Yeah,
Speaker 7: but that hasn't really been his game. But I mean
Speaker 7: he took last year. Was just he took that next
Speaker 7: leap and we didn't know if he was gonna take it.
Speaker 7: You know, that was the big question going in and
Speaker 7: he did. And so I think with that they're better.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I kind of when you when you start to
Speaker 6: talk about is like a guy at Chrystal LaVey in
Speaker 6: that group of eight.
Speaker 2: You know, Chrystal Love is like.
Speaker 6: A young guy and and and and a lot of
Speaker 6: people's minds and stuff like that.
Speaker 7: He's not from the stats. But but let me throw
Speaker 7: it because I'm finding him at eighteenth. And then I
Speaker 7: saw somewhere here at seventeen a guy that only played
Speaker 7: twelve games. He's got to be mentioned in this group too.
Speaker 7: Jamar Chase. Yeah, Jamar Chase is definitely in the exactly missed. Yeah,
Speaker 7: he missed some games. He only played out.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's to me why I kind of look at eight. Yeah,
Speaker 6: I kind of there's there's some guys. I mean, I'm
Speaker 6: a big I'm a big T Higgins fan, Yeah, from Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: And then you know and I and I.
Speaker 6: And you could even I hate to throw this in there,
Speaker 6: but you could even the guy that doesn't get mentioned enough,
Speaker 6: and because he plays in Seattle is Tyler Lockett. You know,
Speaker 6: the guy that makes a lot of big play and
Speaker 6: stuff like that. So I don't know, I'm just kind
Speaker 6: of like, I've got this group of guys in my mind.
Speaker 6: But if you do you look at all the metrics
Speaker 6: that people CD is is in that group with with
Speaker 6: those say eight guys.
Speaker 4: Nick, you were talking in the break. I thought it
Speaker 4: was interesting you were making a point of when he
Speaker 4: in your mind, solidified himself as a number one.
Speaker 7: Take a site out whenever you allow us to do
Speaker 7: the Deep Blue documentary on CD, which will probably be
Speaker 7: after he's gone till wait, we'll see. But I thought,
Speaker 7: I thought the moment and every player kind of has
Speaker 7: that moment like that before. For me, his moment was
Speaker 7: against the Giants last year, week three up in the Meadowlands.
Speaker 7: I think it was Week three. Cooper Rush was playing,
Speaker 7: and at that point he hadn't really shown Hey, I
Speaker 7: got to be the number one. I'm the number one
Speaker 7: receiver because first game Tampa, nobody stepped up. Second game
Speaker 7: was really Noah Brown against Cincinnati that did it. So
Speaker 7: in this third game, Cooper, I mean, I'm sorry, Cooper Rush.
Speaker 7: He throws that deep ball to Ceedee Lamb streaking down
Speaker 7: the field. Here's your moment. He drops it and it's
Speaker 7: like everyone's looking around, like see he can't do it.
Speaker 7: And from that moment something clicked with him. He took
Speaker 7: over the game. Like Brian said, he made a couple
Speaker 7: of plays where you could tell he was just pissed off.
Speaker 7: He was just running over people. That's not even his game.
Speaker 7: Makes a great touchdown catch from that moment. Then he
Speaker 7: goes and has one hundred and seven catches for the season.
Speaker 7: I thought it was that moment on Monday Night Football
Speaker 7: that he said, you know what, I'm the dude and
Speaker 7: I'm going to show everyone right here. Yeah, and I thought,
Speaker 7: you know that that was kind of his coming out
Speaker 7: party for that season.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 6: He took over that that quarter there and then and
Speaker 6: then all of a sudden that the Giants had no
Speaker 6: answer for him.
Speaker 2: There and that and that really was.
Speaker 6: The difference in that football game, his ability to make
Speaker 6: those plays. But he's in that group we talk about
Speaker 6: the Adams Cooper cups. I mean, he's in that that
Speaker 6: cups that.
Speaker 2: The injury I forgot about, that's what.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's some guys like Cup, Chase others. I mean,
Speaker 6: it's a very very and that's the one thing that
Speaker 6: the NFL drafts say the last maybe not, we'll see
Speaker 6: this year with the NFL draft with the receivers, but
Speaker 6: there have been some elite wide receivers put into the
Speaker 6: league the last say three years pre this draft. I mean,
Speaker 6: we'll see what happens with Addison and those guys. But man,
Speaker 6: you know there's still a very very high level there
Speaker 6: when Adams and Cupp and Brown, well yeah I think
Speaker 6: I think, yeah, so there there are that he but he.
Speaker 2: The group he's in, it doesn't take long to call
Speaker 2: the role. It really really doesn't.
Speaker 4: All right, Let's let's move on. Let's talk about the
Speaker 4: wide receiver position from a little bit of a deeper standpoint.
Speaker 4: What do you think they were most missing last year?
Speaker 4: That Brandon's that Brandon what's wrong that Brandon Cooks can't
Speaker 4: provide for them? This year at the wide receiver position.
Speaker 7: You're you gonna say it. I mean, you can say
Speaker 7: that's what they missed and missed the guy that can
Speaker 7: take plays.
Speaker 4: That's saying what did he provide that You think maybe
Speaker 4: Brandon Cooks can't provide.
Speaker 7: A veteran leadership route runner, guy that can go out
Speaker 7: there and produce hopefully at home and on the road.
Speaker 7: And if he can do.
Speaker 2: That, were they getting that movie?
Speaker 7: You're right, right, No, I just think just just another
Speaker 7: guy that you have to kind of account for. And
Speaker 7: you know, I remember when they played the Patriots, Belichick
Speaker 7: made it clear that that that was the guy they
Speaker 7: had to stop there with with uh and of course
Speaker 7: they paid for it because he scored the touchdown. But
Speaker 7: just veteran leadership at receiver.
Speaker 5: What's crazy is that now that and Hi, Hi guys,
Speaker 5: I just kind of appear here.
Speaker 13: Now that some time has passed by.
Speaker 5: It's crazy to go back and think to think what
Speaker 5: we thought of Amari Cooper at the time when he
Speaker 5: was currently with the team and just the questions that
Speaker 5: were around him.
Speaker 13: I mean, regardless of.
Speaker 5: What he was doing for the team, there were those
Speaker 5: questions where he wasn't consistent you know, we went out
Speaker 5: on the road and he wasn't performing and was his
Speaker 5: willingness or like, was he all in with football and
Speaker 5: wanting to give it all his all and then all
Speaker 5: of a sudden he's off the team. And we saw
Speaker 5: last year how much it was missed having that type
Speaker 5: of presence. That to me at the time and I
Speaker 5: valued Amari Cooper, but I didn't really see how valuable
Speaker 5: he truly was to the Cowboys and what he was
Speaker 5: bringing on the offense as a whole, and what he
Speaker 5: was being able to create for other guys as well.
Speaker 5: And I know you guys were talking about Cde Lamb
Speaker 5: earlier and he.
Speaker 13: Did take that step up. We'll see.
Speaker 5: I do believe he can carry it this year and
Speaker 5: keep performing at that level, But can the other guys
Speaker 5: kind of step up as well and create just more opportunities.
Speaker 6: No, that's an excellent point, because what happened is you
Speaker 6: got Ceedee Lamb going into that top eight level that
Speaker 6: we were just talking about. And the problem was that
Speaker 6: when you look at Michael Gallup, he was Noah Brown,
Speaker 6: That's really what he was instead of instead of Michael
Speaker 6: Gallup also elevating his game, if you statistically look at him,
Speaker 6: targets and receptions are almost the same, yards, almost the same.
Speaker 6: You know, you didn't need Gallup going backwards. And that's
Speaker 6: what you hope that when you when you add new
Speaker 6: blood to the room, and you hope that Gallup goes up.
Speaker 6: But you had one receiver that went to that level
Speaker 6: and then one that was we thought might be at
Speaker 6: that level sunk to a much lower level.
Speaker 2: And now it made him have to think, wait a minute.
Speaker 6: We talked about Cooks at the trade deadline last year.
Speaker 6: Can we take a chance on Gallup and then also
Speaker 6: Tolbert not elevating their game, we go we can't go
Speaker 6: through that again, you know, and now with no Noah Brown.
Speaker 2: I mean, give Noah Brown a credit. Noah Brown played
Speaker 2: his role. Nick's right.
Speaker 6: He won the Cincinnati game for you the way play.
Speaker 6: But that's Noah Brown you're comparing. If you statistically look
Speaker 6: at the numbers, Michael Gallup and Noah Brown are the
Speaker 6: same guy. You can't have that if you're going to
Speaker 6: be a team that has bigger aspirations on offense.
Speaker 4: And with the money.
Speaker 5: MICHAELA yeah, I was gonna ask you guys. I know
Speaker 5: it was a while but Michael Gallup, he talked to
Speaker 5: the media not too long ago, and you know, he
Speaker 5: was saying all the right things, basically saying he's feeling
Speaker 5: a lot better last compared to last year, especially where
Speaker 5: he was in pain basically the whole season and dealing
Speaker 5: with that and the mental aspect of it.
Speaker 13: And he says he's good and working there. But there
Speaker 13: was one.
Speaker 5: Specific quote that made me feel kind of hesitant at
Speaker 5: the end, and this is one of the articles I
Speaker 5: was put out on Dallas Cowois dot com. One of
Speaker 5: his last quotes was I'm very confident I'll feel like
Speaker 5: that guy again, And that kind of made me raise
Speaker 5: an eyebrow, like in the future tense like I'll feel.
Speaker 13: Rather than I'm feeling like that.
Speaker 5: And we're getting close to training camp, so that made
Speaker 5: me very concern as to where is he really going
Speaker 5: to be at level wise, and I mean according to
Speaker 5: his health and mentally as far as like what his
Speaker 5: body is allowing him to do back on the field.
Speaker 5: I don't know what y'all's concerns are.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I kind of feel like not kind of this
Speaker 6: is an important year for him because contractually, if he
Speaker 6: has another poor year, we're going to be talking about
Speaker 6: this next year, about Okay, how do you replace this
Speaker 6: guy and this guy? And he very well could be
Speaker 6: in that conversation when you start to talk about what
Speaker 6: the allocation for money is to a wide receiver position
Speaker 6: that's not getting the production that they that they are
Speaker 6: trying to get from him. So, you know, maybe maybe
Speaker 6: his confidence level it doesn't want to oversell it. Maybe
Speaker 6: he doesn't want you to you know, maybe he doesn't
Speaker 6: want oh, I'm great, I'm great, I'm great, I'm great.
Speaker 2: And then he's not great.
Speaker 6: Maybe his expectations are let me just kind of keep
Speaker 6: it tempered here, and then as we elevate this thing,
Speaker 6: then it will be like I told you it was
Speaker 6: going to it was going to take a little time here.
Speaker 6: I think he's kind of keeping us down here and
Speaker 6: then you know, and we'll see what the what the
Speaker 6: actual playing turns into.
Speaker 7: And I think players also know that how they feel
Speaker 7: now and how they feel in the season are a
Speaker 7: little different. So I think he's probably weighing it like that,
Speaker 7: like when that season comes, you know, when the grind
Speaker 7: is here in training camp in the season, I'll feel
Speaker 7: like I'm supposed to feel, you know, because everybody that's
Speaker 7: feeling good now that they take it with a grain
Speaker 7: of salt. So maybe that's kind of what he meant
Speaker 7: if he wasn't at one hundred percent, if that's kind
Speaker 7: of what you're asking. If he wasn't at one hundred percent,
Speaker 7: I think right here in these voluntary OTAs, I don't
Speaker 7: think he'd be going as hard as as he has been,
Speaker 7: and I think they would kind of hold him back.
Speaker 7: So I think it was more about when the season,
Speaker 7: when the when the real, when the lights come on,
Speaker 7: I feel like I'll be there.
Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, I kind of took the same thing.
Speaker 4: I didn't really take it as I didn't read it
Speaker 4: as literally as you did. I thought it was more
Speaker 4: of him just pointing to the season, like by the
Speaker 4: time I get to the season, I'll be there, not
Speaker 4: so much a matter of saying I'm not there now
Speaker 4: as much as just saying I know that this year.
Speaker 4: My expectation is this season, you're going to see a
Speaker 4: different player.
Speaker 7: And it's what the fans want to hear, because if
Speaker 7: you say I'm killing it right.
Speaker 2: Now, see that.
Speaker 13: I've heard that with Tyren Smith.
Speaker 4: Word these are all words, and these are all hopes
Speaker 4: until we see them actually play out on the field.
Speaker 4: I just think that what he was pointing to is
Speaker 4: I think this year, I'm going to be back to
Speaker 4: where I was, and actually that.
Speaker 2: Is the case.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well good, I feel good at by y'all's interpretation
Speaker 5: of that. But I actually liked everything that he said
Speaker 5: when he spoke because it felt very real and open
Speaker 5: and just someone that was being pretty transparent as to
Speaker 5: where he's at and where he was that you, I mean,
Speaker 5: we sit here and watch him play and criticize all
Speaker 5: we want, but we don't truly, ever really know what
Speaker 5: the player is going through. So it just put things
Speaker 5: into perspective. But again, it makes you wonder. Okay, obviously
Speaker 5: they must feel some type of confidence with him by
Speaker 5: giving him that contract, but at the same time, he
Speaker 5: is he truly gonna be ready.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the difficulty of our job.
Speaker 6: You know, we sit here and evaluate how they play,
Speaker 6: but you're right, you don't know what they're going through
Speaker 6: in meetings, you don't know what they're going through off
Speaker 6: the field. You don't know all that. That's that is
Speaker 6: the unfortunate part of our job. You know, we were
Speaker 6: all you know, we've We've seen Britt Brown and players
Speaker 6: come off that field after injuries and then play at
Speaker 6: a high level.
Speaker 2: We've seen that before.
Speaker 6: So you automatically in your mind, you're going, he'll be back,
Speaker 6: he'll be ready to go, and then and then it
Speaker 6: doesn't happen, and then we're critical about it. You're kind
Speaker 6: of like, Okay, did we miss something here? But yeah,
Speaker 6: I think we're a huge disadvantage when it comes to
Speaker 6: is there something else other than football that's bothering these
Speaker 6: players that we don't know and that could affect the
Speaker 6: way they play and the way we evaluate him, fair
Speaker 6: or unfair.
Speaker 4: Another guy that was disappointed in his season last year
Speaker 4: by his own admission, as Jalen Tolbert, how confident are
Speaker 4: you guys that the Cowboys got the pick right and
Speaker 4: he just needs more time to develop.
Speaker 6: I know I did, and I know I'm the guy
Speaker 6: in this panel that looks at this stuff, especially with
Speaker 6: the draft and the Draft Show and all the things
Speaker 6: we do. I thought it was an excellent pick at
Speaker 6: the time. When I saw this kid play at South Alabama,
Speaker 6: I saw a guy with a chip on his shoulder.
Speaker 2: I saw a guy that played at a very high level.
Speaker 6: When it came to how he competed for the ball,
Speaker 6: how he went and got it, how he finished routes,
Speaker 6: how he was able to run after catch, the.
Speaker 2: Catch radius, all all those things checked the boxes.
Speaker 6: The Cowboys thought about him in the second round, they
Speaker 6: saw basically the same thing.
Speaker 2: I think personally it was a huge.
Speaker 6: Disappointment because we've seen receivers come into the league, especially
Speaker 6: young receivers in this day and age, and be ready
Speaker 6: to play from the jump.
Speaker 2: He was not ready to play.
Speaker 6: The fact that he was missing OTA's many can't practices.
Speaker 6: He was over there with Washington, they were over there
Speaker 6: with britt Brown rehabbing feet and ankles and whatever else
Speaker 6: they were dealing with. You know, that point in time
Speaker 6: when he didn't get that initial field work. I think
Speaker 6: it affected him. The minute they started throwing him into
Speaker 6: the deep end of the pool. He wasn't able to swim.
Speaker 6: And I think now through everything that he's seen and
Speaker 6: the expectations that have been put on him, he now
Speaker 6: realizes what's ahead of him and this is a really
Speaker 6: important year for him as well.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, he's done it before. I've said this
Speaker 7: many times on here. I don't know. I mean I'm
Speaker 7: sure I'm repeating myself, but he had five catches his
Speaker 7: freshman year of South Alabama. Can't he had some kind
Speaker 7: of struggle there on that level, that competition and the
Speaker 7: learning curve wasn't there for him. The next year he
Speaker 7: had fifty five, the next year he had eighty. So
Speaker 7: he figured it out there on Okay, what am I
Speaker 7: doing and how do I get comfortable enough to start
Speaker 7: making plays? Big jump obviously from South Alabama to the Cowboys,
Speaker 7: But it's happened before where if it matters to you,
Speaker 7: you'll do the necessary things to get there. And he
Speaker 7: says the right things. He said it all off season.
Speaker 7: Now it's time to perform, so we'll see. I think
Speaker 7: the jury is still out. Third round pick. You know,
Speaker 7: he should have played more, figure out where to line up,
Speaker 7: all that kind of stuff. But I think, you know,
Speaker 7: we've seen Cedric Wilson and Noah Brown do it. They
Speaker 7: go to the dockyard and they just get comfortable with
Speaker 7: Dak and they get better players. If he can kind
Speaker 7: of get to the Cedric Wilson level, I think that
Speaker 7: would be that would be fine.
Speaker 5: Well, that's the thing that I think you begin to
Speaker 5: appreciate and root for someone that is admitting things, is
Speaker 5: recognizing things, is saying what everyone thinks, you know. So
Speaker 5: I appreciate that from him, and I am rooting for him,
Speaker 5: and I do think he's going to be a lot
Speaker 5: better as opposed to And it's hard not to give
Speaker 5: your support when you meet someone and you hear those
Speaker 5: words and you connect with the player as opposed to
Speaker 5: someone like that's.
Speaker 13: Telling you to watch the tape. Yeah, like I Jalen Smith, But.
Speaker 5: You know he's not that type of player, and you're
Speaker 5: willing to give him another year. Let's see what you
Speaker 5: can do because you see him putting in the work.
Speaker 5: He's willing to do it, and he's putting all that
Speaker 5: effort and he's maturing. That's another thing, the maturity of it,
Speaker 5: where as opposed to last year, he may not have
Speaker 5: felt very comfortable confident in that kind of room with
Speaker 5: these guys that he sees as stars, and now he's
Speaker 5: how do you say that acclimating acclimated? I was gonna
Speaker 5: say it in Spanish acclimatal. But yes, I think I
Speaker 5: think I truly believe that he'll be better this year.
Speaker 6: Well, the organization thought enough of him. They didn't pick
Speaker 6: a wide receiver in a draft until the seventh round. Ye,
Speaker 6: and the receiver they picked was really a special teams
Speaker 6: guy too. Guy that's a you know, it does a
Speaker 6: lot of work on those special teams. So they believe
Speaker 6: enough in him that they were not willing to put
Speaker 6: a second, third, fourth round pick on a wide receiver
Speaker 6: in a draft that was pretty deep. In the middle
Speaker 6: of the draft, they said, Nah, we've got Tolbert.
Speaker 2: He's our guy. Let's see how this plays out.
Speaker 4: All right, we'll take our final break, we'll come back,
Speaker 4: we'll jump into a conversation on the tight end. We'll
Speaker 4: ask the question or any of these guys will able
Speaker 4: to step into the role that may be lost with
Speaker 4: Dalton Schultz. Then when we come back Dallas Cowboys dot Com.
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Speaker 4: It is the final segment of the Break Life from
Speaker 4: the SWBC Mortage Studios, a starts stecument presented by Miller Light,
Speaker 4: the only beer of the Dallas Cowboys. Let's talk about
Speaker 4: the tight end position. I want to start with this question.
Speaker 4: If you were to ranked the three tight ends that
Speaker 4: are the projected top three tight ends on this team,
Speaker 4: how would you rank them between Schoonmaker, Ferguson, Hindershot.
Speaker 2: How would you rank them?
Speaker 6: How are we going to do it? Is it going
Speaker 6: to be are you asking the complete tight end? Who
Speaker 6: is the complete.
Speaker 4: Mating From a standpoint of how much you want to
Speaker 4: lock in the field, you can tell me, you can
Speaker 4: decide that, but how much you want them on the field,
Speaker 4: how would you rank them?
Speaker 7: That is a tough question because it's not it's sometimes
Speaker 7: it's third and two and sometimes it's third and twelve,
Speaker 7: and that's a different guy. Yep, And that is it.
Speaker 7: I mean that's a question. Yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 7: I think it is. On third and twelve, I'll take Hindershot.
Speaker 7: I like nder shots stretching the field for me, yeah,
Speaker 7: and kind of spread out a little bit. On third
Speaker 7: and two, I think I'll take Schoonmaker. I don't know
Speaker 7: that yet, but I think so.
Speaker 6: I would the way I would rank him as far
Speaker 6: as completeness. And this is just because I've seen Schoonmaker
Speaker 6: at Michigan catch the football, and I think that's a very.
Speaker 2: Underrated trait to his game.
Speaker 6: Schoonmaker hindershot Ferguson is how I would rank it if
Speaker 6: you told me I could have Okay, I can only
Speaker 6: play one tight end, and if I play that tight end.
Speaker 2: He can block and he can catch.
Speaker 6: So I'm going with the guy that I know that
Speaker 6: can do both, and Schoonmaker hasn't done it in the NFL.
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 6: Schoonmaker did play at a very high level Michigan football,
Speaker 6: very high level, played in playoff games, you know, national
Speaker 6: championship type of consequences for games.
Speaker 2: He's been a productive receiver. But I feel like.
Speaker 6: If you would not take him off the field because
Speaker 6: he's not going to be a liability as a blocker, damn.
Speaker 13: What I'm not. I'm thinking of that scenario because that's the.
Speaker 2: Only advantage I have over you guys right now.
Speaker 5: Well, I feel like coming out of the draft, I
Speaker 5: mean a lot of the criticism for Schoonmaker or analysis
Speaker 5: type of stuff was about him being a catch make
Speaker 5: like a guy that can go and catch the ball.
Speaker 5: I mean one of the main traits were the blocking.
Speaker 5: But I mean, I trust your opinion because you watch
Speaker 5: all that, all those tapes.
Speaker 13: But to me, I'm.
Speaker 5: Sticking with Ferguson as my main guy first, and then
Speaker 5: I would probably try a scoom Maker, and then Hendershot third,
Speaker 5: and then McKean last.
Speaker 13: Wait, how many titands would you keep?
Speaker 2: Only? I think you keep three? Because three?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: But the problem they're going to run into is do
Speaker 2: they keep the full back?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 6: That's because if you watch the praise that we throw
Speaker 6: on the San Francisco forty nine ers is because of
Speaker 6: what Kyle Ustcheck does. And Kyle's us Check is a
Speaker 6: is a guy that plays full back, he plays wing,
Speaker 6: he plays tight end, he plays He's this interchangeable piece
Speaker 6: that just wrecks your scheme on defense because they'll put
Speaker 6: him at tight end or wing and now you have
Speaker 6: to account for him. And then you have to count
Speaker 6: for Deebo Samuel now being in the backfield the way
Speaker 6: that they played with a fullback. And let's see if
Speaker 6: that's what that's Let's see if that's what uh you
Speaker 6: know what Mike has played with.
Speaker 2: Full backs before.
Speaker 6: So if they carry the full back, that that means
Speaker 6: to me, it's only three tight ends. That's that's the
Speaker 6: only way you carry I mean, if you didn't have
Speaker 6: a full back, maybe you carry a four.
Speaker 7: Title well, and you know, rewind it back a whole year.
Speaker 7: And we're talking tight ends, I mean Hendershots not even mentioned.
Speaker 7: We're not even talking about that, and notun till we
Speaker 7: got the training camp do we see that? And and
Speaker 7: I know I've talked to tight end coach Linda Wells
Speaker 7: and he said, watch out for fans Princeton fan, Prince
Speaker 7: fan from Tennessee, undrafted free agent. He's a dynamic kind
Speaker 7: of playmaker type guy. So you know, I mean, you
Speaker 7: never know how how that all shakes out. But this
Speaker 7: is what I'd like to see a training camp. I
Speaker 7: want to see.
Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you this real quick.
Speaker 6: As you mentioned him, to watch who does he replace
Speaker 6: if they carry three tight end?
Speaker 7: Yeah, the guy the guy that got hurt in the
Speaker 7: third practice of training camp. I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, these things kind of work themselves out sometimes.
Speaker 2: If you had to take away if.
Speaker 6: They're not gonna lose Scoon Maker, if you had to
Speaker 6: take away Ferguson or hinder Shot and say that fant
Speaker 6: was that guy, and you can only carry three, they
Speaker 6: gotta get hurt.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't matter. What wouldn't matter?
Speaker 4: This goes to what you were just talking about though,
Speaker 4: wouldn't matter from a standpoint of what does fant do well?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 4: Is he more of a blocker? Is a pass catcher?
Speaker 4: And that affects who that third guy might be.
Speaker 6: I'm just playing the game of tight end coach telling
Speaker 6: me to watch a guy. Yeah, and if Titan, if
Speaker 6: this guy lives up to tight end billing, you're not
Speaker 6: going to get rid of schoon maker And it's gonna
Speaker 6: come down now. Maybe it comes down to you don't
Speaker 6: carry the full back and you carry four guys. We've
Speaker 6: seen them do that before. They you're thinking they can't
Speaker 6: carry five safeties? They carry five? They Yeah, So to me,
Speaker 6: I was just trying to I was trying to pin
Speaker 6: you on who between Ferguson and Hit or Shot do
Speaker 6: you feel the less? If does everything that Linda Well
Speaker 6: says he can do, which one of these tight ends
Speaker 6: do you move on from if you can only carry three?
Speaker 7: Yeah? I mean what I was going to say is
Speaker 7: what I want to see a training camp is I
Speaker 7: want to see Jake Ferguson and I'm sure hender Shott
Speaker 7: will be with him riding around in a golf cart
Speaker 7: all the time. Because if you get a golf cart
Speaker 7: training camp, I think this is still the rule is
Speaker 7: because you kicked ass in the offseason, you're one of
Speaker 7: the off season award winners. That's kind of what they do.
Speaker 7: The strength coach gives you your own golf cart and
Speaker 7: all that. That's what I want to see because if
Speaker 7: Ferguson can be an off season warrior with the strength
Speaker 7: Coach and all that, that's going to take him to
Speaker 7: that next level I think as a better blocker, as
Speaker 7: a better complete tied end, because the guy's hurtling people
Speaker 7: in the middle of the season too. Like he can
Speaker 7: make plays, he just needs a little bit more strength
Speaker 7: than it's blocking. If Ferguson can kind of take that
Speaker 7: next step, he jumps into that mix too.
Speaker 6: The thing about it is, if you just believe in metrics,
Speaker 6: sixty nine percent of hindershots he makes like he's right
Speaker 6: about sixty eight sixty nine percent catching the football.
Speaker 2: The other guy's about eighty four eighty five.
Speaker 6: You know, so that if you're saying okay, because if
Speaker 6: the numbers are basically the same. But if you believe
Speaker 6: in the metrics, like well, who catches the better percentage
Speaker 6: of balls thrown in their direction, it would be Ferguson
Speaker 6: would be that guy.
Speaker 7: Hendershott needs to work on those penalties. He had a
Speaker 7: lot of penalties for a guy that didn't take every snap.
Speaker 7: You know, when you look at you know percent And
Speaker 7: I haven't looked at this stat but Joseph would probably
Speaker 7: be first in as far as penalties versus your snaps.
Speaker 7: And Sam Williams is up there, and Donovan Wilson had
Speaker 7: a lot of snaps. But I mean and also also
Speaker 7: hinder shot those guys right there, got you know, young
Speaker 7: players got to work on on the discipline a little bit.
Speaker 4: So we'll do this before we end the show. He
Speaker 4: lost Schultz, you add it, schoonmaker. Are they better, worse
Speaker 4: or the same than they were in twenty twenty two?
Speaker 7: Better, I'll say the same. I'll say the same. But
Speaker 7: just because Schultz had some stats and he caught the
Speaker 7: ball well and all that, and that's what that's all
Speaker 7: he did, really, I mean, just he made some catches
Speaker 7: and all that, and then but I think they're gonna
Speaker 7: be I think they could be better. But because of
Speaker 7: you know that they're still young players. I would just
Speaker 7: say the same, But I'm not going to say that
Speaker 7: they're worse.
Speaker 4: Why do you say they're better, Brian.
Speaker 6: I'd say they're better because they added a more complete player.
Speaker 6: I do believe he I believe he catches the football
Speaker 6: well enough. I think they'll find ways to get him
Speaker 6: the ball. I think he is one of those point
Speaker 6: of attack blockers. You watch the teams that run the
Speaker 6: football really well in the National Football League, it's guys
Speaker 6: that do well at the point of attack.
Speaker 2: Schoonmaker is going to be that guy for this football team.
Speaker 6: He's replacing Dalton Schultz, who can catch the football, knows
Speaker 6: how to get open. But all these guys know how
Speaker 6: to get open, they know how to can they finish
Speaker 6: the play? But can they block? Can they help the
Speaker 6: running game? Can they be complete players?
Speaker 2: They got better by adding Schoonmaker.
Speaker 5: Right now, I feel like it's the same just because
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 13: I haven't seen Schoonmaker just yet. I haven't. I don't know.
Speaker 13: It's if it's gonna.
Speaker 5: Take him the first year to kind of get as
Speaker 5: he does. But you still have some of those rookies
Speaker 5: that come in here and it still takes them a
Speaker 5: little bit to get going. And it's gonna all come
Speaker 5: down to how many snaps and opportunities does he get
Speaker 5: to be on the field. Uh, and take that away
Speaker 5: from the other two guys.
Speaker 13: So I just don't know yet.
Speaker 5: Right now, I feel like they can be better than
Speaker 5: last year, but at the moment, they're the same.
Speaker 4: All right, appreciate you guys joinas we are back next week.
Speaker 4: We'll have our final show before our little break before
Speaker 4: training camp. Tell them for Nickie. Mcbrian brought us then Ambergarci.
Speaker 4: I'm Derek Eagleton's has been The Break Live on Dallas
Speaker 4: Cowboys dot Com Radio.
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