WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 147 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:03.120 Al Zone Media. 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:09.480 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.599 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.080 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.040 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:22.799 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:24.520 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.200 Welcome to it could happen here a podcast about things 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:31.120 falling apart and how to put them back together again. 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.520 I'm your host, b A walg with me is Robert Evans. 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:39.520 Woo woo. So we have spent a lot of time 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:41.760 on this show talking about the rise of the far 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.240 right and what that's looked like electorally, what that's looked 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:46.479 like in the streets, and the sort of you know, 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:51.239 deleterious effects that it has had on effectively everyone in 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.880 the US. This is going to be a little bit 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.440 of a different episode. We've talked about a lot of 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.680 the responses to the far right, sort of you know, 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.640 inter sort of direct actions and sort of confrontations. What 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.120 we haven't really done is talked about what can be 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:09.400 done electorally, and I do think that a significant portion 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:14.440 of the far right can be defanged and eventually defeated 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.319 through a series of things that are not particularly complicated. 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:23.040 But the problem is that defeating the far right means 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.360 going beyond simply trying to win every single election, which 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.720 is the current sort of democratic strategy. Right If you 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.440 want to actually defeat the far right, winning every election 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.000 is not a viable strategy. We've seen this fail already 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:37.840 with Hillary Clinton. We cannot rely on simply winning every 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:41.640 election into the future. You have to go beyond mere 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:46.440 electoral victory towards using your electoral victory to actually defeat 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.760 the base of the far right. When the Republican Party 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:52.840 held power for twelve years following the ascension of Ronald Reagan, 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:56.440 they did it by destroying the political base the Democratic Party. 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.720 They shattered America's trade unions and rebuilt the economy to 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.280 ens unions would no longer be able to provide the 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:06.280 ideological and financial support the Democrats had relied on. If 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.440 we are going to defeat the far right, we need 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.200 to wage the same kind of campaign against them now. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.359 Luckily for us, unlike Ronald Reagan, We do not need 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.400 to completely rebuild the American economy to knock the legs 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:20.600 of the far right out from under them. There is, 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:25.000 in fact, a pretty minimal program that we can implement 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:27.920 to defeat the far right that is very simple. It 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.920 has three components. First, a crack down on MLMs that 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.080 drives them effectively completely underground. 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.320 Yeah, by which we mean multi level marketing. For these 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:40.440 are period schemes, right, which are a major source of 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.200 funding for the fire right. I mean this is where 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:45.280 Trump comes out of, right, this is why he did 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.320 that fake university like, this is a big part of 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:49.880 his base. Yeah. 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:51.760 Yeah, we're going to get more into that in a seconds. 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:56.760 The second, very important one is a regulatory overhaul of 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:00.280 how the FDA regulates supplements. Oh boy, which sounds like 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.200 it yeah, extremely technical and nerdy thing, but supplements are 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.799 another enormous cash spigot for the far right. 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.280 Yeah, this is where Alex Jones and Joe Rogan get 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:09.800 their shit. Yeah, yep, yep. 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:14.320 And the third is another kind of wonky change that 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:18.720 will be extremely important, which is making sure to allow 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:23.200 car companies to make direct sales to customers, thus undercutting 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.680 the enormous and extremely politically powerful base of right wing 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.480 American car dealership owners. 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.000 Yeah, who donate more money to political causes than any 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:33.880 other career field in this country. 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:36.920 Yeah. And you may not believe us yet just from 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:40.280 this sort of basic introduction, but these three simple reforms 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.800 EML and regulation, regulation of dietary supplements, and the direct 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.840 sales of cars will destroy so much of the financial 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:48.840 and political base of the far right that they will 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.600 at least temporarily and in the sort of mid range term, 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:55.640 becomes significantly less of a threat than they are now. 0:03:56.520 --> 0:04:00.880 So we are going to start with MLMs. Yeah, as 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.480 Robert has sort of alluded to, MLMs are a very 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.840 very important political base for the far rights. I'm probably 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.080 the most famous and the one that Robert has done 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.000 an entire show on. So go listen to that if 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:13.920 you want to really actually in detailed thing on the 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:18.800 history of Amway. Amway and the sort of political family 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.040 the devices that they've generated are an incredibly important part 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:25.600 of the emerging far right. I mean, obviously, most famously 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.040 Betsy de Vos, who married into the Klan, was our 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.800 Secretary of Education under Trump. You know, the sort of 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:38.000 prince family is embedded into this and Amway famously used 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:42.320 its own internal communications to stump for Republican Party candidates 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.960 and also uses its base and also directly its own 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.960 funds to fund the Republican Party and a bunch of 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:53.760 Republican congressional candidates. Now, obviously, and this is something that 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:56.080 is true of all of these reforms, is that everything 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.320 we're doing here, they're morally and politically good in their 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:03.279 own right. Right, MLMs are scams, They're extremely exploitative, and 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.640 their role, I think in the far right is a 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:10.279 lot more important than people understand. Even if you just 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:12.839 look at the money, you're sort of missing part of 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:17.520 what's going on with MLMs. MLMs aren't just a cash spigot. 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.520 They're part of how the far right builds is ideological base. 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.599 MLMs teach you to convert all of your personal relations 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.960 into potential assets for sales. This is obviously evil on 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.919 a moral level, but it's also insidious on an ideological level. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.400 The MLM logic of turning all of your most precious 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.640 relationships into sales vectors changes how you see the world. 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.600 And this is why Republican recruiting inside Amway works so well. 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.320 Once you've been trained that literally everything, even your sort 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.400 of closest friends and your dearest relationships with your family 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:53.000 are just business opportunities. It's extremely easy to convince you 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.880 of the rest of the Republican Party platform in the 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.240 same way the experience of being in a union and 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.720 organizing with your coworkers once reliably turned out the ideological 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:05.479 base of the left. MLMs have generated enormous political basis 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:09.680 for the right. And unfortunately, this sort of ideological threat 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.360 doesn't just go away if people are able to get 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.600 out of MLMs, or especially if you know they're sort 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.359 of cast out of the mlems because they've simply are 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.520 broken brand of money and are in debt. The isolation 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.640 and alienation that comes from pushing away, you know, every 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.640 single relation that's close to you, from attempting to sell 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:30.880 them soap or whatever, makes people isolated and alienated and 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:35.159 makes them more vulnerable to far right radicalization. And this 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:41.679 is why driving these MLMs under isn't just a way 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.599 to sort of cost Republican Party money, because that's not 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.240 enough to defeat the Republicans. They can find other sources 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.840 of money. What you need to do is systematically remove 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.279 parts of their political base. And when I say your 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:55.080 roofports to their political base. What I mean is you 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:59.120 have to go after the systems that are creating more 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.800 members of the or right. Going after MLMs is a 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.000 way to do that. Now. The FTC has gone after 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.279 m lms before. They sort of famously, as you talked 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.119 about in that episode and an m way, they went after 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.320 a bunch of MLMs in the eighties. But this sort 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.360 of caused MLMs to get smarter and has you know, 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.520 has been pretty effective in in sort of warding the 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:24.360 FTC off from really going after MLMs since then. 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.720 Yeah, which is by the way, like another you were 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:31.080 just talking about how the way MLMs impact like the 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.160 minds of the people participating in them, like prepares them, 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.320 you know, for the far right. Yeah, the way in 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.960 which this this sense of impunity has developed among the 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.920 people who run and participate in these things due to 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:49.040 their capture of the legal system is also a part 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.360 of like why the far right works the way it does, 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:53.200 that sense of impunity. 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.080 Yeah, And part of the reason why they have that 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.840 impunity is is just the way the FDC goes after 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.040 these companies, right, I mean, there was in the in 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.800 the mid twenty tens, the FTC went after neutral Light, 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.680 which is one of the biggest and oldest MLMs. But 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:07.760 the way they went after them was they issued them 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:09.880 a two hundred million dollar fine, and that's a lot 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.760 of money, but it didn't drive neutral Light out of business. 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:17.000 And as the anthropologist David Graeber pointed out, if government 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:21.320 regulation just means setting fines, and if the fines still 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:23.600 allow the business to make more money than they lost 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.200 from the fines, then that's just the government taking a cut. 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.840 It's not actual regulation. And if you're one of these 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.280 businesses and the worst that could happen to you is 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:35.360 the government takes a cut, you end up with, you know, 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.520 two thousand and eight right where all these banks know 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:39.960 they're going to get bailed out, and they know the 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:41.960 worst punishment that's going to happen to them is just 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.200 the government taking a small cut and they can go 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:48.000 back to just making all their money. So in order 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.959 to actually go after MLMs, we can't simply rely on 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.280 the FTC. You know, even if if you were to 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.800 sort of put in charge a more militant FTC that 0:08:57.880 --> 0:08:59.280 was were willing to go after stuff, there needs to 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:04.760 be actual literary change here, and that is possible but difficult. 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.680 But if we actually want, if we're actually deeply serious 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.680 about wielding political power to defeat the far right and 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:13.640 to keep them from re emerging and to keep them 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.920 out of power generationally, then this is the start of 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.720 what we have to do. So we mentioned Neutralite, which is, 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.800 you know, a very very powerful MLM. Neutralite is important 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.280 because it is actually two kinds of business that are 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.880 extremely important to the far right. At the same time. 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.120 It is part MLM, but it is an MLM that 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:37.679 also sells dietary supplements. And when we come back from 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.040 these ads, we will be considering the role of the 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.800 virtually unregulated dietary supplement markets in the rise of the 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:59.880 far right more broadly, and we are back, oh boy, yeah, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.600 the supplement market. There is a lot less that has 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.400 been written about this, then there should be. So dietary 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:11.360 supplements are barely regulated by the FDA. People are getting 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:13.840 scammed all over the place enormous numbers. I mean, I've 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.360 seen numbers that we're suggesting. I mean two hundred million 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.040 people take some kind of dietary supplement if you include 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.080 things like sort of vitamin gummyes et cetera, et cetera. 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.400 This is an enormous this is an enormous business. I'm 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.800 going to read from Johnny R. Starr, who wrote an 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.120 article about supplement regulation in the American Journal of Public Health. 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:33.840 If you're going to read this, By the way, this 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:35.959 is slightly out of date, because the next year, I 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:37.560 don't know if this is part of this. The next 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:41.640 year at FDC a little bit overhauled their supplement regulations. 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:46.360 But here is star quote the Dietary Supplement Health and 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:48.640 Education Act, which is the big thing that sort of 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:53.840 deregulated supplements, prohibit supplements that pose a substantial risk of injury, 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.160 allows the Secretary of Health and Human Services to issue 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.559 immediate bands on substances that are imminent hazards, and authorizes 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:05.599 the FDA to implement current good manufacturing practice guidelines. The 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:09.359 law also requires pre market notification for new dietary supplements 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.680 defined supplements that were not marketed in the US before 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.480 October fifteenth, nineteen forty four, which is when the Dietary 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:19.280 Supplement Health Education Act went into effect. Products violating these 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:23.000 regulations are deemed dangerous, adulterated, and misbranded, are otherwise unlawful. 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:24.679 And that all sounds well and good until you get 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:28.200 to the next sentence, which is quote, However, supplements need 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:32.560 not be evaluated for efficiency, and only limited data on 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:36.120 safety are required for new supplement ingredients. 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:36.840 Yeah. 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.640 So, like you're not supposed to let people sell dangerous supplements, 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:41.679 but we're all also not supposed to check to make 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.679 sure the supplements are safe or work. 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:48.000 Yeah. Yeah, it as the FDA itself admits that even 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.839 the little tiny notifications for things like new ingredients that 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.560 the fa in posts of twenty sixteen, you're supposed to 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:56.840 notify the FADA if you put new ingredients. But like, 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.959 even that just isn't happening. These companies just don't care. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.440 They're just not either not even like doing the little 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.280 tidy legal mandate stuff they're required to. 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.640 I should also note a large part of the blame 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.839 for particularly the supplements, but also I mean MLMs, actually 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:13.520 they play a role in it too. It's the state 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:14.040 of Utah. 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:14.680 Yeah. 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:16.960 By the way, a political power of the state of 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.840 Utah is a huge part of why, because supplements are 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:24.880 a massive fucking industry in Utah. So are MLMs. So, 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:28.360 by the way, our team treatment facilities, the ones where 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.000 they like kidnap your children and torture them. These are 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.120 all things that the state of Utah in specific will 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.040 fight like hell to stop from being fixed in any way, 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:37.520 shape or for. 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.400 Yeah, and that bill I keep talking about the Dietary 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.520 Supplement Health Education Act, That is the baby of Utah 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:48.080 Senator or In Hatch, who is a terrible right wing 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.360 force in American politics. And the fact that orin Hatch 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.959 has been this effective and the fact that Utah serves 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:57.200 as such a powerful base here demonstrate something that's important 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.280 about this political strategy, which is that it has to 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.800 be a federal level political strategy because there are a 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.880 lot of states Republicans effectively have strangleholds. You need to 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.599 use the federal government to bypass the unbelievable block of 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.959 sort of political power in these states. I want to 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.480 read a little bit more from that article by Star 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.240 about what kind of regulations are required for supplements, because 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.960 I think it's extremely dire in and of itself. Quote, 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.080 manufacturers are not required to confirm the identity of all 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:28.760 ingredients supply to them. 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:30.000 Sure why they need to do that? 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.040 Unbelievable, And they're not required to follow up river how 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:40.040 I talked about there's current good manufacturing Practices guidelines. Following 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:44.720 those guidelines does not guarantee the absence of all contabinants. Moreover, 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:49.199 unlike drugs which are considered unadulterated or misbranded, if they 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.520 do not achieve compliance with national standards set by US 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:59.359 Pharmacopeia and National formulary, dietary supplements may choose to be compliant. 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:04.520 Only six brands of dietary supplements are currently verified by 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.160 US Pharmacopeia, so they don't have to work. They can 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.600 choose whether or not they want to be submitted to 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:14.120 see if any of this stuff works. Now in theory, also, 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.240 the marketing of dietary settlements is supposed to be regulated 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.400 by the FDC, But like is the FDC regulating you 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:22.520 know all of these false claims people are making with 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.120 the dietary slelements. No, of course they're not doing that. 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:29.560 So why do we care about supplement market Robert has 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:31.280 kind of has talked about this at the very beginning 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.520 of the episode. The easiest answer for why we should 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:37.280 care about supplement markets is simply the figure of Alex Jones, 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.720 who you know, we have talked about extensively on this show. 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.080 It's been behind the masters. If you want to really, 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.080 really in depth look at who Alex Jones is. The 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.640 podcast Knowledge Fight is the single best resource I think 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:49.840 anyone has ever created. 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.280 Yeah, it would be hard to beat. 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:57.800 Yeah, it's it's unbelievably detailed. But Alex Jones has, you know, 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.640 as an individual figure, has done more or to sort 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.360 of spread the ideology the far right and turn this 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.760 country into what it is now then maybe almost any 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.720 other single person other than someone like Trump. Right, he 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:13.760 is probably most well known now as quote the Sandy 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.560 Hook guy, which he's extremely mad at people calling him, 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.920 but he's why everyone thinks that not everyone, but a 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:21.920 bunch of people think that Sandy Hook was a false flag. 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:27.840 And importantly, here's from NPR quote most of Free Speech Systems, 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.840 which is Alex Jones, the corporate name for Alex Jones' company. 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.600 Most of Free Speech System's revenue to this day, about 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:39.640 eighty percent comes from dietary supplements, according to court records. Now, 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.920 these court records come from one of a number of 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.960 lawsuits against Alex Jones for defaming the families of the 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.480 victims of the Alex Jones shooting. Are we certain for 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:56.040 defaming the victims of Sandy Hook shooting. Sorry, yeah, yeah. 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.560 And you know, in the process of discovery, we got 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:02.160 a bunch of information about how how Alex Jones's internal 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:06.360 media empire actually works. Now, if you followed Alex Jones 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.520 over the years, you know that he's hawked everything from 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.360 silver to satellite phones. But it is the dietary supplements 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.720 that actually sell right As an MPR article said, about 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:21.680 eighty percent of his revenue comes from dietary supplements. And 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.080 this is not a sort of small independent media outlet, 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.920 right free speech systems. Again, as Alex Jones' company was 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.600 worth hundreds of millions of dollars, this is an enormous 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:35.920 for right media empire, and supplement sales allow right wing 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.960 figures like Alex Jones to bypass the reliance on ads, 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.320 which removes a lot of potential leverage from activist groups 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:45.920 who wage pressure campaigns against you know, dated this against 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.479 Tucker Carlson for example, where people went after their advertisers 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:50.960 and showed them the stuff Tucker Carlson was saying on 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.040 Fox before he got kicked off and what do you 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.280 want to fund this? And you know that was actually 0:16:56.320 --> 0:17:00.240 a sort of effective strategy. But you know, the any 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:01.920 part about this is if you look at the end 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.119 of Tucker Carlson's show, right, the ads on that show 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.360 were ads from the MyPillow guy, who is a far 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.000 right extremist in his own right and a very important 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:18.320 election denier, and a bunch of supplement companies. Supplement sales 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:22.080 are a durable and renewable grift because there's already an 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.960 extensive network of suppliers and distributors. Right wing brands who 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.600 want to make a bunch of money can just sort 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:32.000 of slap their name onto existing supplements that they buy wholesale, 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:33.760 and then they can market them to their viewers, and 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:38.440 this gives them an extremely profitable and lucrative source of funding. 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.240 And this is used all over the place right. 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.080 Again, it impacts what they say and like how they 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:48.359 like the obsession they have with like seed oils and 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.760 what's destroying your ability, like your testosterone and all of 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.679 these like different far right conspiracy theories about you know, 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.240 what kind of stuff you shouldn't be eating, Like all 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.920 of this stuff is related to the supplement business, right, 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.639 Like they are trying to drum up and destroy trust 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.920 and public health and drum up conspiracy theories for their 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:10.800 own profit and so it's not just a matter of 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.119 like this is how they get money, but this also 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:15.600 is why they do some of the things that are 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:16.320 so harmful. 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:20.600 Yeah, and as you're saying, this is cyclical, right, the 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.680 incentive structure for going further and further into these conspiracies 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.320 and selling more and more of the supplement things, it's 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:29.960 a spiral. It it keeps on just increasing in size 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.880 and increasing in size due to the feedback loop from 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:37.000 the incentive structure that's selling these supplements creates. Now, this 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:41.919 is actually not an enormously difficult sort of feel to 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.200 just completely shut down the next branch we're going to 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.000 talk about, I think is actually a much harder political fight, 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.159 But a lot of the market for this can be 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:54.560 defeated by just having the FTC actually regulate supplements the 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.200 way they do drugs because and this is really important, 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:02.040 these supplements are being marketed as a drugs, right. The 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.440 advertisements that these people are already doing are already illegal. 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:07.720 The FTC is not supposed to allow people to sell 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.480 supplements like this. They shouldn't be able to be manufactured 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.160 like this. And this is again as with banning MLMs, 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.080 this is something that helps the consumer because it'll mean 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.520 that whatever supplement market exists after sort of a massive 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.760 regulatory sweep and crackdown will be much safer, it will 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.879 be much more effective, and it will also destroy the 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.399 base of far right media. If you can cut the 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.280 knees out of this sort of far right media ecosystem, 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.640 you can go an enormous way towards solving the crisis 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:39.840 of the far right that has been brought upon this country. 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:42.320 Speaking of crisis. 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:44.120 Yeah, we're gonna let the ads talk about the ads, 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.720 and then we're gonna come back and close by talking 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.200 about car manufacturers in the American gentry. 0:19:49.480 --> 0:20:02.320 Yeah, you're back. And this is a fun one. This 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.040 is also like one of my particular favorite things to 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:06.520 hit because I don't think a lot of people know 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:10.919 how much the Republican Party is just a party of 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:12.920 used car dealers YEP. 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:17.520 Probably the most famous piece that talks it's not really 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.920 fully about car dealerships, but it mentions their sort of 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:23.600 political effect and the kind of class that they belong to. 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.840 Is maybe the best thing The Atlantic has published in 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.240 the last decade, at least one of the best things 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:33.000 they've published, and it's an article on the American gentry 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.359 by the by the journalist Patrick Wyman. Wyman argues that 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.280 huge swaths of America are ruled by what he calls 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:42.399 the local gentry. These are millionaires, and notably, these are 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:47.000 not billionaires. These are multi multimillionaires whose wealth derives from 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:50.680 immediate wealth extraction from the surrounding communities. In places like 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:56.000 wyman childhood home of Yakima, Washington, these elites have enormous 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.639 local power over the territory. They rule like the landed 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:04.040 gentry of old Wyman quote the conspicuously consuming celebrities and 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:08.199 jet setting cause of politans, if popular imagination exists, But 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.960 they are far outnumbered by a less exalted and less 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.840 discussed elite group, one that sits at the pinnacle of 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.920 the local hierarchies that govern life for tens of millions 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:21.440 of people. Donald Trump grasped this group's existence and its importance, 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:25.680 acting as he often does, on unthinking but effective instinct, 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:30.000 when he crowed about his quote beautiful boters, lauding the 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.719 flotilla of his supporters trailing MAGA flags from their watercraft 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:36.920 in his honor, or addressed his devoted followers among a 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:40.359 rioting January sixth crowd that included people who had flown 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.080 to the event on private jets. He knew what he 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:47.240 was doing. Trump was courting the support of the American gentry, 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.040 the salts of the earth, multimillionaires. You see them as 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:54.399 local leaders in business and politics, the underappreciated backbone of 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:58.280 a once great nation. Now Wyman is largely focused on 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.879 the agricultural gentry, because that's you know, the sort the 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:05.240 sort of agrobarons who are very important to this story, 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:07.480 but are are kind of are are kind of auxiliary 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.440 to this and that you know, that's largely because he's 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:13.280 talking a lot about the places where he grew up, 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:17.080 which are which are agricultural hubs. But a very critical 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:21.200 component of this American gentry, of this local elite class 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:24.280 are car dealership owners, and their wealth and influence literally 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:28.480 cannot be overstated. The journalist Alexander Salmon wrote this in 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:32.119 an article in Slate in twenty twenty three. Quote auto 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.000 dealers are one of the five most common professions among 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:39.040 the top point one percent of American earners. Car dealers, 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.400 gas station owners, and building contractors. It turns out, make 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:44.840 up the majority of the countries one hundred and forty 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.720 thousand Americans who earn more than one point five million 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:51.960 dollars a year. Crunching numbers from the US Census Bureau, data, 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:56.680 scientists and author Stephens Devotowitz found that over twenty percent 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:58.960 of car dealerships in the US have an owner in 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:02.680 banking more than one point five million a year, which 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:05.639 is absolutely absurd. That is, that is an unbelievable amount 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:08.960 of money for people who really, when you think about it, 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:11.800 don't do anything, like what is the actual service that 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:13.040 a car dealer is do? 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:15.920 I mean the primary thing that they do is rip 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:19.560 people off, because there the entire way that car sales 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.760 work is based on fraud yep, right, Like it's based 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:26.359 on getting you to buy things that do not actually work, 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:30.000 like service packages and whatnot that you often will not 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.280 get any benefit from. And it's a lot of it 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:36.480 is based around also just outright scams, you know, altering 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:40.600 the information buyers have access to so they don't realize 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:43.560 like problems with a used car or whatever. Like it's 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:45.240 it's all fraud, right. 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:50.760 Yeah, And as as is becoming ever true of American life, fraudsters, 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:54.040 scammers and people who are just their entire existence is 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:57.120 dedicated to ripping you off have more and more political 0:23:57.200 --> 0:23:59.840 power in this country. Here's a salmon from that same 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:03.000 article quote. As of twenty twenty one, the top one 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:06.159 hundred dealership groups in the US had annual revenues of 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:10.080 around one hundred billion dollars, more than any company that 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:16.200 actually makes cars. The National Automotive Dealer Association NADA became 0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:19.080 one of the most influential lobbying entities in Washington, with 0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:23.520 sixteen thousand dues paying members spanning thirty two thousand, five 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:27.280 hundred franchises. Soon enough, a stop at the annual NADA 0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:30.560 convention became routine for presidential hall fulls, and even Presidents 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:34.680 Lyndon B. Johnson, Ronald Reagan, and Hillary Clinton all attended 0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:38.840 ahead of presidential runs. Bill Clinton and both Bushes came 0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:41.040 after they left the White House. And the fact that 0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:43.879 Democrats are showing up to this is appalling on a 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:47.640 moral level. Right, this is an entire organization of fraudsters, 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:49.879 and it doesn't even work. 0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:50.200 Right. 0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:53.120 Car dealers donate six to one for Republican causes, but. 0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:55.800 They really want that one. Yeah, it's the same thing 0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:58.760 with like you've got Schumer going out for the crypto 0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:01.840 Caucus now where Yeah, well, only a fraction of those 0:25:01.840 --> 0:25:04.560 guys are going to donate to DIMS, but it's all scam. 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:06.159 He doesn't really care as long as some of it 0:25:06.200 --> 0:25:09.240 goes to him. Yeah yeah. 0:25:09.359 --> 0:25:11.760 Now. The thing that's that's dangerous about these people, and 0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:15.439 I think it's even more dangerous than something like crypto money, 0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:19.480 is that these are local elites, right, and they are 0:25:19.520 --> 0:25:22.879 dispersed enormously across the country. This is something that Salmon 0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:25.320 is very sort of specific about, and something that comes 0:25:25.400 --> 0:25:27.320 up in Wyman's piece, and somebody comes up if you 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:29.720 do any research about this at all. A huge part 0:25:29.720 --> 0:25:32.000 of the power is because these people are spread geographically 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:35.320 across the country, and because they are the richest people 0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:37.840 or among the richest people in the sort of small 0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:42.000 areas that they dominate, they have unbelievable amounts of political power. 0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:47.320 And because they are again unbelievably wealthy, they can funnel 0:25:47.359 --> 0:25:50.199 this money directly into local politics on a scale that 0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:54.000 cannot be matched by your sort of grassroots organizations. This 0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:56.680 allows them to buy everything from city council's to seats 0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:57.680 in Congress, and. 0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:01.280 They effectively unionize like and they've got the Portland Business 0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:06.280 Association right, which is to a significant extent, allied with 0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:10.160 the police and like dominates local politics. They're the ones 0:26:10.160 --> 0:26:12.960 who buy the mayor's election, like they're the ones who 0:26:13.400 --> 0:26:17.399 you know, make deals with the Portland Police Officers union. 0:26:17.600 --> 0:26:19.520 Like this is this is the way in which a 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:24.399 lot of power gets exercise that actually impacts your daily life. 0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:27.680 Yeah, and they've also been doing things like like coordinating 0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:30.400 and doing strategy sharing about defeating unions. But I mean, 0:26:30.400 --> 0:26:32.840 this is why most of these big associations were formed, 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:35.840 was specifically to destroy unions in the early twentieth century. 0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:39.600 And you know, I mean the Autolobbying Group was formed 0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:43.840 to do autolobbying because these car dealerships don't have unions. 0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:45.440 That's another thing that we'll come back to it a 0:26:45.480 --> 0:26:49.320 little bit. But yeah, these car dealerships are a durable 0:26:49.320 --> 0:26:53.000 and extremely powerful force in electoral politics, and they deliver 0:26:53.600 --> 0:26:55.840 seats and this is the most important thing if you're 0:26:55.840 --> 0:26:59.720 an electoralist. Right, these people consistently deliver cease to Republicans 0:26:59.760 --> 0:27:02.119 by flooding an amount of money into local races that 0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:05.320 people can't compete with. And because of this, they miserate 0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:07.600 the lives of hundreds of millions of people, and they 0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:10.960 can also largely be destroyed in a single stroke. That's 0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:14.840 maybe oversalling it a little bit, but their power largely 0:27:14.960 --> 0:27:19.160 rests on an enormous array of state level monopolies that 0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:22.360 ban the direct sales of cars to consumers or prevent 0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:25.679 car companies from competing with local retailers. And this is 0:27:25.680 --> 0:27:28.600 something that the autolobby has been you know, the auto 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:32.000 association lobby not has been fighting for for ages. They've 0:27:32.040 --> 0:27:33.960 gotten it in an enormous number of states. 0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:36.080 Yeah, and this, by the way, you know, in terms 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:38.360 of abilities to like disrupt things, this is a big 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:41.200 part of like how Tesla is different from other auto 0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:44.840 manufacturers is in most states. There are some states where 0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:46.800 they're not allowed to do this, but in most states 0:27:46.800 --> 0:27:49.920 they sell directly to the customer, which is like back 0:27:50.000 --> 0:27:53.159 before Musk became as political a figure, was actually a 0:27:53.200 --> 0:27:55.560 major reason why these people didn't like him. 0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:58.440 Well, they still don't. This is actually a really interesting thing, 0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:01.320 is what the thing I want to close on here? Yes, yes, yes, 0:28:01.480 --> 0:28:04.040 these people still hate Musk and they hate electric cars 0:28:04.040 --> 0:28:07.359 because electric cars, to a large extent, are both a 0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:11.280 being directly sold by companies and B it's harder to 0:28:11.359 --> 0:28:13.480 you actually have to do service on them in a 0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:16.040 way that makes it more expensive for these these companies 0:28:16.040 --> 0:28:17.760 to write about this. This is something that Salmon has 0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:22.280 written about extensively, so they absolutely despise electric cars. And 0:28:22.400 --> 0:28:25.240 this is actually a political opportunity for us, right because 0:28:25.359 --> 0:28:27.840 Elon Musk now is again one of there is I 0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:29.600 think he's still the richest person in the world technically 0:28:29.680 --> 0:28:33.480 until sort of all his stocks implode. But this is 0:28:33.520 --> 0:28:37.000 an opportunity also to split parts of the Republican base 0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:41.720 right because the local government monopolies that these car dealers 0:28:41.760 --> 0:28:45.320 have are actually enormously unpopular among a lot of the 0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:48.400 other parts of the Republican base right. Elon hates them. 0:28:48.600 --> 0:28:53.160 Actual car manufacturers hate it. No one likes car dealers, like, 0:28:53.240 --> 0:28:56.240 oh yeah, and this is everything you know. This is 0:28:56.240 --> 0:28:59.680 also something that libertarians hate because libertarians look at this, 0:28:59.760 --> 0:29:01.719 and this is one of the few times libertarians are right. 0:29:01.800 --> 0:29:03.080 They look at this and go, oh yeah, well, these 0:29:03.120 --> 0:29:06.320 people have been literally granted market monopolies. There are a 0:29:06.360 --> 0:29:09.320 lot of places where if there's already a car dealer there, 0:29:09.040 --> 0:29:11.239 if you're a car company, you can't compete with these things. 0:29:11.280 --> 0:29:14.400 So these are state sanction monopolies. So there's large portions 0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:18.200 of the Republican base who oppose these companies, and if 0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:22.000 you can use this as a wedge issue to split 0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:24.560 the Republican base, and that's sort of where I want 0:29:24.600 --> 0:29:26.520 to close on. As much as I've been talking about 0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:29.680 these three very specific things, right banning MLMs or at 0:29:29.760 --> 0:29:34.520 least having extremely large regulatory crackdowns, regulatory crackdowns on supplements, 0:29:34.840 --> 0:29:39.240 and legislation to allow direct car sales. What we're trying 0:29:39.240 --> 0:29:43.000 to do here isn't just getting rid of the money 0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:45.520 that supports the far right. We're trying to destroy their 0:29:45.520 --> 0:29:48.640 institutions and we're trying to fracture their base, right. Going 0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:52.040 after MLMs destroys their ability to sort of produce more 0:29:52.400 --> 0:29:55.200 produce more Republicans from these MLMs and produce more people 0:29:55.200 --> 0:29:58.120 in the far right from these MLMs. Going after supplements 0:29:58.200 --> 0:30:00.880 is a way to destroy the right wing media ecosystem, 0:30:00.880 --> 0:30:02.760 which has been crucial to the rise of the far right. 0:30:03.240 --> 0:30:06.560 And going after cars can help split the emerging Republican 0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:09.400 coalition by you know, pitting two parts of the Republican 0:30:09.440 --> 0:30:12.440 base against each other, pitting these car dealers versus Elon 0:30:12.520 --> 0:30:14.160 and versus the auto manufacturers. 0:30:14.800 --> 0:30:18.680 Well, Mia, great episode, This is a nice starter. This 0:30:18.720 --> 0:30:20.800 is again something we're going to continue to talk about 0:30:20.840 --> 0:30:25.400 because I really think we can't hit enough on this. Obviously, 0:30:25.800 --> 0:30:29.080 these three things don't solve every problem with the far right, 0:30:29.200 --> 0:30:32.480 but this is like, if you get actually like packaged 0:30:32.480 --> 0:30:35.320 these together into a legislative agenda, it could be the 0:30:35.360 --> 0:30:40.120 equivalent of like the nuclear option for these people. So yeah, yeah, 0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:42.160 I think this is a smart thing to be hitting. 0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:44.960 We will continue to talk about this in more detail, 0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:48.040 but you know what, we're done for the day, Go 0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:49.240 do something else. 0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:14.920 I'm Stephen Monticelli, a journalist in Dallas who covers political 0:31:14.960 --> 0:31:16.200 extremism in Texas. 0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:19.720 I'm Michael Phillips, an historian who wrote a history of 0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:24.480 racism in Dallas called White Metropolis. Both of us grew 0:31:24.560 --> 0:31:27.560 up in the suburbs of Dallas, Texas, and for both 0:31:27.560 --> 0:31:29.840 of us our home state has been a matter of 0:31:29.880 --> 0:31:34.760 both wonder and horrified fascination. In this episode of It 0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:37.840 Could Happen Here, we're going to try to explain Texas 0:31:37.880 --> 0:31:40.560 culture and politics and why the country and the world 0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:45.720 should care. Spoiler alert, what happens in Texas doesn't stay 0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:49.800 in Texas, the state has always had a disproportionate impact 0:31:49.840 --> 0:31:53.960 on national politics. The annexation of Texas in eighteen forty 0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:57.440 five provoked the Mexican American War. From eighteen forty six 0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:00.640 to eighteen forty eight, the United States I have two 0:32:00.720 --> 0:32:04.240 thirds of Mexico's territory, and there was an ugly and 0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:07.920 bitter fight over the status of slavery in all that 0:32:08.040 --> 0:32:11.600 new land the United States acquired. That's going to turn 0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:13.800 out to be one of the major causes of the 0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:17.280 Civil War, a conflict that resulted in the liberation of 0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:21.160 four million African Americans from slavery, but also the death 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:25.520 of three quarters of a million Americans. Texas also was 0:32:25.600 --> 0:32:30.840 the epicenter of the Populist Movement, a leftist movement largely 0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:34.440 based in Texas that actually challenged the power of the 0:32:34.480 --> 0:32:37.719 Democratic Party in the South. And if the Populist Party 0:32:37.760 --> 0:32:41.760 had succeeded everything else happened in America in the twentieth 0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:45.520 century in terms of Jim Crow, lynching, the Clan, etc. 0:32:46.280 --> 0:32:47.960 May have had a very different outcome. 0:32:48.520 --> 0:32:52.320 Slavery didn't end in Texas until June nineteenth, eighteen sixty five, 0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:56.040 months after it had ended in the rest of the country. 0:32:56.920 --> 0:32:59.920 It's a state that today is the second most pot 0:33:00.040 --> 0:33:02.920 peoalists say in the nation, and it's the eighth largest 0:33:02.920 --> 0:33:06.800 economy in the world. Two of the most consequential presidents 0:33:06.840 --> 0:33:09.880 over the last sixty years hailed from the Lone Star State. 0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:13.600 There was Democrat Lyndon Johnson, who brought the country not 0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:17.520 only Medicare and Medicaid, but the nineteen sixty four Civil 0:33:17.600 --> 0:33:20.320 Rights Act and the nineteen sixty five Voting Rights Act, 0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:25.280 two issues that the right wing continue to fight against 0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:28.840 to this day. Those laws made African Americans perhaps the 0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:32.880 most important constituency in the Democratic Party. Racist backlash to 0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:36.840 johnson civil rights legislation, urban uprisings in places like the 0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:41.160 Watts neighborhood in Los Angeles, and white flight generally led 0:33:41.160 --> 0:33:43.720 segregationists and their children in the South, who had been 0:33:43.760 --> 0:33:46.760 loyal Democratic voters to switch allegiance to the Republican Party. 0:33:47.000 --> 0:33:51.520 Over the next three decades, another Texas president, Republican George W. 0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:52.280 Bush. 0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:56.120 He aggressively embraced homophobia, tightened the ties between the Republican 0:33:56.120 --> 0:33:58.280 Party and the most right wing Christians in the country, 0:33:58.600 --> 0:34:00.640 and made denial of climate change strict. 0:34:00.640 --> 0:34:01.880 Gope orthodoxy. 0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:05.120 Of course, the Bush family's oil wealth was central to 0:34:05.160 --> 0:34:08.239 their rise to power, and broadly speaking, the wealth of 0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:10.800 right wing oil barons in Texas has helped push the 0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:14.200 Republican Party further and further to the right, in no 0:34:14.280 --> 0:34:18.120 small part due to a particular belief in a particular 0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:22.399 strain of Christianity, which we'll get to later in this episode. 0:34:22.719 --> 0:34:26.160 Bush's response to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade 0:34:26.200 --> 0:34:29.880 Center and the Pentagon on September eleventh led to the 0:34:30.000 --> 0:34:33.640 rise of the modern surveillance state and the two longest 0:34:33.640 --> 0:34:38.440 wars in American history, both of them disastrous failures. The 0:34:38.480 --> 0:34:43.480 combination of white backlash to the LBJ era civil rights initiatives, 0:34:43.960 --> 0:34:48.160 the intense religiosity of the Bush era and the Republican 0:34:48.200 --> 0:34:50.560 Party in that time period, and the sense of the 0:34:50.719 --> 0:34:54.399 United States was a declining power unable to impose its 0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:57.640 will on Afghanistan and Iraq opened the door of the 0:34:57.680 --> 0:35:02.319 Donald Trump's ascendancy. In short, two Texas presidents played a 0:35:02.360 --> 0:35:06.280 major role in making the Democratic Party vastly more diverse, 0:35:06.880 --> 0:35:11.560 more urban based, and more mainstream liberal, and the Republican 0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:16.080 Party more white, more right wing, more isolationists, and far 0:35:16.160 --> 0:35:18.520 more fundamentalists and skeptical science. 0:35:19.600 --> 0:35:22.720 Texas has been in the national news frequently in recent years, 0:35:22.760 --> 0:35:26.839 and often for the worst reasons. It's become famous and 0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.799 infamous for its wide open gun laws and several of 0:35:29.840 --> 0:35:33.440 the worst mass shootings in American history, including at an 0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:37.359 army base in Killeen, a Walmart and al Paso, and 0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:41.960 an outlet mall in Allen. Draconian abortion laws allow complete 0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:44.560 strangers to sue women who go out of state and 0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:48.800 their pregnancy, and new laws are being considered to prevent 0:35:48.960 --> 0:35:53.440 women from traveling through particular counties on highways who if 0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:55.560 they are seeking abortion, you know they could be arrested 0:35:55.719 --> 0:35:58.680 for basically trying to leave the state to seek an abortion. 0:35:59.200 --> 0:36:00.799 In the last three year years in the state, a 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:03.880 group of teachers in the Southflex School District in the 0:36:03.960 --> 0:36:07.080 Dallas Fort Worth area were instructed to tell quote both 0:36:07.120 --> 0:36:09.840 sides of the Holocaust in order to not run a 0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:13.799 foul of the legislature's ban on critical race theory. A 0:36:13.840 --> 0:36:17.600 beloved teacher, Nerving, was fire for displaying a rainbow sticker 0:36:17.880 --> 0:36:21.480 in our classroom as a sign of support for LGBTQ students. 0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:25.640 The first ever African American high school principal at Heritage 0:36:25.719 --> 0:36:29.759 High and yet another Dallas suburb, Colleyville, was forced from 0:36:29.800 --> 0:36:31.839 his job when he sent an email to his high 0:36:31.840 --> 0:36:35.759 school community after the murder of George Floyd that acknowledged 0:36:35.840 --> 0:36:38.760 existence of systemic racism in the United States. 0:36:39.719 --> 0:36:42.560 So I think you could maybe pick up on a 0:36:42.600 --> 0:36:46.879 trend here in Texas that our fundamental rights like free 0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:50.720 speech are under threat, particularly if you run a foul 0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:54.480 of the orthodoxy that comes out of the Republican Party. 0:36:55.080 --> 0:37:00.359 And one target of that orthodoxy has been books. All 0:37:00.400 --> 0:37:05.480 across this nation, we've seen dust ups over books in schools, 0:37:05.520 --> 0:37:08.920 books and libraries, and Texas has. 0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:11.640 Been one of the. 0:37:10.600 --> 0:37:14.600 Main flashpoints of this fight. So the literary organization pen 0:37:14.640 --> 0:37:17.759 America reports that Texas and Florida lead the nation in 0:37:17.800 --> 0:37:21.440 book bands at public schools, with more than fifteen hundred 0:37:21.520 --> 0:37:25.160 books banned in the state of Texas. Most of those 0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:31.719 books deal with issues like racism or LGBTQ experience, and 0:37:32.120 --> 0:37:36.600 one deputy constable in Granbury, a suburb near Dallas Fort Worth, 0:37:37.080 --> 0:37:42.760 even spent two years investigating three librarians on alleged felony 0:37:42.840 --> 0:37:48.360 charges of providing so called harmful materials to miners. Simply 0:37:48.400 --> 0:37:52.239 because they allowed miners to access acclaimed books like The 0:37:52.239 --> 0:37:56.680 Bluest Eye by Tony Morrison. According to an investigation by 0:37:56.719 --> 0:38:00.600 NBC News, the law enforcement officer Scott London was a 0:38:01.000 --> 0:38:06.719 member of the extremist Oathkeepers organization. He subpoened names of 0:38:06.840 --> 0:38:10.040 young readers who checked out supposedly objectable material, and he 0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:13.960 even secretly recorded his conversations with the librarians who drew 0:38:14.040 --> 0:38:19.440 his unwonted attention. The investigative report that came out of 0:38:19.480 --> 0:38:24.720 this investigation into so called harmful materials was eight hundred 0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:29.240 and twenty four pages long, and no charges were ever filed. 0:38:29.680 --> 0:38:32.279 But nonetheless a lot of people's lives were made difficult 0:38:32.480 --> 0:38:35.960 and a bunch of books have been taken off the shelves. 0:38:37.160 --> 0:38:41.360 So, as we mentioned, Texas has been on the cutting 0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:45.600 edge of right wing politics and America on issues like abortion, 0:38:46.120 --> 0:38:51.280 the treatment of trans children, and on immigration particular. Texas 0:38:51.440 --> 0:38:58.080 has modeled the Republican attitude on newcomers and migrants and 0:38:58.120 --> 0:39:01.920 policies towards them. The state k Governor Greg Abbott essentially 0:39:02.360 --> 0:39:06.480 tried to establish his own independent border policy, even though 0:39:06.480 --> 0:39:09.720 the constitution makes that the responsibility of the federal government. 0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:13.279 Texas so far has built thirty four miles of a 0:39:13.360 --> 0:39:17.880 wall Abbot valves will eventually extend along the entirety of 0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:22.240 texas twelve hundred and fifty four mile international border with Mexico. 0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:26.759 One estimate says that project, if it were completed, would 0:39:26.800 --> 0:39:31.799 take thirty years and cost twenty billion dollars. The State 0:39:31.840 --> 0:39:36.080 of Texas has placed Buoy's entangled with razor wire in 0:39:36.120 --> 0:39:40.160 the Rio Grande River near Eagle Pass, a border town 0:39:40.160 --> 0:39:43.880 that's a major crossing point for migrants fleeing the violence 0:39:43.920 --> 0:39:47.879 and economic hardship in Central America, Venezuela and the rest 0:39:47.880 --> 0:39:49.040 of Latin America. 0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:52.600 One of Governor Abbot's border initiatives, Operation Loan Star, has 0:39:52.680 --> 0:39:56.719 flooded the border with hundreds of law enforcement agents and 0:39:56.920 --> 0:40:01.520 has touted thousands of arrests. But it's also eleven billion 0:40:01.600 --> 0:40:06.280 dollars and it's unclear what it's really done in terms 0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:11.319 of making the state safer. Texas insists, through statements from 0:40:11.360 --> 0:40:15.480 people like Greg Abbott, that immigrants are dangerous and that 0:40:15.560 --> 0:40:19.040 they are flooding our streets with crime, never mind the 0:40:19.080 --> 0:40:22.399 fact that studies indicate that immigrants are far less likely 0:40:22.440 --> 0:40:26.240 to commit crimes. On average, these initiatives have been deadly. 0:40:26.920 --> 0:40:29.879 In August twenty twenty three, a buoy trapped a twenty 0:40:30.000 --> 0:40:33.279 year old in Durham and a small child, causing them 0:40:33.280 --> 0:40:36.480 both to drown. The Texas border patrols El Paso sector 0:40:36.520 --> 0:40:39.920 has become one of the deadliest areas of the border here, 0:40:39.960 --> 0:40:42.680 with one hundred and forty nine immigrants dying over a 0:40:42.719 --> 0:40:46.560 twelve month period between twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three. Recently, 0:40:46.560 --> 0:40:50.319 on a podcast, Abbot expressed regret that Texas has been 0:40:50.520 --> 0:40:54.120 unable to shoot immigrants who are attempting to enter Texas 0:40:54.200 --> 0:40:56.960 by crossing the Rio Grant and has complained that the 0:40:57.040 --> 0:41:00.719 Biden administration might file murder charges against border regions if 0:41:00.760 --> 0:41:02.680 such lethal force was used. 0:41:02.960 --> 0:41:05.000 And the only thing that we're not doing is we're 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:08.800 not shooting people who come across the border. 0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:11.480 Because of course the Biden administration with charges with murder. 0:41:12.040 --> 0:41:16.840 One of the issues about immigration is a panic amongst 0:41:16.840 --> 0:41:20.239 the Anglos living in the state that white people will 0:41:20.280 --> 0:41:24.279 become a shrinking and less politically powerful minority, and this 0:41:24.400 --> 0:41:28.680 connects to the issue of abortion. Throughout the history of 0:41:28.719 --> 0:41:33.280 abortion laws in Texas, there's been a discussion of whether 0:41:33.400 --> 0:41:36.600 or not white Texans were committing what they said in 0:41:36.600 --> 0:41:40.920 the early twentieth century was so called Reese suicide, a 0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:44.279 real panic that black and brown people would eventually out 0:41:44.360 --> 0:41:47.520 number whites and would seize political control of the state. 0:41:48.320 --> 0:41:51.000 And this is tied to the abortion issue because throughout 0:41:51.040 --> 0:41:54.239 the history of abortion laws in America and in Texas, 0:41:54.600 --> 0:41:57.600 there's been a concern that white women are having abortions 0:41:58.480 --> 0:42:02.160 and that really fuel some of the extremism in how 0:42:02.200 --> 0:42:06.479 Texas has approached this issue. Twenty twenty two, this state 0:42:06.560 --> 0:42:09.400 legislature passed the law that would allow a third party 0:42:09.840 --> 0:42:13.720 to sue anyone who helped a woman getting an abortion, 0:42:14.040 --> 0:42:18.120 although the courts have so far blocked enforcement of that law, 0:42:18.160 --> 0:42:24.000 called Senate Bill eight. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton meanwhile 0:42:24.440 --> 0:42:28.520 has addressed another issue dealing with trans children, and again, 0:42:28.640 --> 0:42:31.799 trans children, if they're white, would be out of the 0:42:32.000 --> 0:42:36.160 reproductive demographic race that panics white racist in the state. 0:42:36.760 --> 0:42:39.360 He has tried to force doctors and other states to 0:42:39.400 --> 0:42:44.120 provide medical information on young people receiving gender affirming care 0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:48.000 outside of Texas and the parents are trans children in 0:42:48.040 --> 0:42:52.080 Texas have been investigated for child abuse in each case, 0:42:52.400 --> 0:42:57.319 these extreme laws have been discussed, in some cases imitated 0:42:57.680 --> 0:42:58.920 in other Red states. 0:42:59.800 --> 0:43:04.759 On the one hand, we've got anxieties about immigrants allegedly 0:43:04.800 --> 0:43:08.960 replacing the white race rhetoric that has been repeated by 0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:11.640 people as high up as Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick, who 0:43:11.680 --> 0:43:14.560 has said that immigrants are trying to take over our 0:43:14.600 --> 0:43:20.120 country without firing a shot. This is something that people 0:43:20.360 --> 0:43:24.600 like the Hitler admirer Nick Fuentes, who has met with 0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:29.960 a high ranking and influential Republican consultant who works for 0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:34.120 one of the largest political donors in the country, he 0:43:34.200 --> 0:43:37.000 believes that sort of rhetoric and pushes it. On the 0:43:37.040 --> 0:43:40.880 other hand, we've got the issue with LGBTQ issues in general. 0:43:41.640 --> 0:43:45.319 We've seen books being taken off the shelves as we've 0:43:45.360 --> 0:43:49.080 previously mentioned. We've seen rights taken away from students with 0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:54.280 regard to their access to bathrooms. We have seen, as 0:43:54.640 --> 0:43:58.000 doctor Phillips mentioned, the targeting of parents, and a lot 0:43:58.040 --> 0:44:01.120 of this comes from this anxiety that students are being 0:44:01.239 --> 0:44:06.799 groomed into becoming LGBTQ in public schools, in public libraries, 0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:10.600 and other settings. The idea being that yes, they're trying 0:44:10.640 --> 0:44:13.640 to turn your kids gay. That's what they're saying, and 0:44:13.680 --> 0:44:17.160 so of course they're going to be extremely upset about 0:44:17.200 --> 0:44:21.920 any shrinking demographic numbers among the white population, or a 0:44:21.960 --> 0:44:29.000 growing acceptance of queerness or people being transgender, and so 0:44:29.120 --> 0:44:33.799 much of that is rooted in religious belief. But all 0:44:33.840 --> 0:44:37.640 of this it matters in a bigger perspective, and I 0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:40.799 think we can understand why some of this is so 0:44:40.960 --> 0:44:44.600 prevalent in Texas through the lens of Texas's importance to 0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:45.640 national politics. 0:44:46.239 --> 0:44:50.920 Texas counts for forty of two hundred and seventy votes 0:44:51.000 --> 0:44:55.120 needed to win the electoral College. Only California has more 0:44:55.360 --> 0:44:59.680 electoral College votes, and the Republican Party has been able 0:44:59.719 --> 0:45:03.719 to rel lie on winning every single presidential election in 0:45:03.760 --> 0:45:09.239 the state since nineteen eighty. If Texas should ever flip politically, 0:45:09.800 --> 0:45:12.000 it'd be hard to see how the Republicans could ever 0:45:12.040 --> 0:45:15.560 win the White House again. And it always seems like 0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:19.320 Texas is just on the verge of flipping blue. 0:45:19.840 --> 0:45:20.120 Right. 0:45:20.320 --> 0:45:22.600 There's there's been a lot of talk for a long 0:45:22.640 --> 0:45:27.680 time about this pending demographic revolution, the idea that eventually, 0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:30.719 you know, the numbers are just baked in and that 0:45:30.960 --> 0:45:34.480 Republicans will no longer control the state. So let's look 0:45:34.480 --> 0:45:37.000 at some of those numbers. So Tejanos or people of 0:45:37.160 --> 0:45:40.719 Latino Hispanic descent, make up more than forty percent of 0:45:40.719 --> 0:45:44.280 the state's population, so they're the largest single population group. 0:45:44.800 --> 0:45:47.799 Non Whites account for sixty percent of all Texans, and 0:45:47.840 --> 0:45:51.160 as a group, they vote mostly for Democrats, and they 0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:54.279 control most of the state's largest cities in terms of 0:45:54.320 --> 0:45:57.959 political dominance. But because of low voter turnout among people 0:45:58.000 --> 0:46:01.680 of color, laws that intentionally make registering to vote harder, 0:46:01.960 --> 0:46:06.560 making voting itself even more difficult, gerrymandering, and the general 0:46:06.600 --> 0:46:09.480 feebleness of the Democratic Party in the state, the state 0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:12.720 has remained in control of a very conservative, very white 0:46:12.760 --> 0:46:19.520 Republican minority for three decades. In Texas, every major city 0:46:19.719 --> 0:46:23.680 is blue except for one, and that's Fort Worth, which 0:46:23.719 --> 0:46:26.879 is in a place called Tarrant County. And I think 0:46:26.920 --> 0:46:31.640 it is not a coincidence that the largest, flashiest conflicts 0:46:32.160 --> 0:46:34.680 have often been in Tarrant County when it comes to 0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:39.400 things like schools, when it comes to things like books. Colleyville, 0:46:39.440 --> 0:46:42.560 as we previously mentioned, is in Tarrn County. If you've 0:46:42.600 --> 0:46:44.920 ever heard of the name South Lake, that's a town 0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:51.280 in Tarrant County. There are numerous national articles about issues 0:46:51.320 --> 0:46:55.800 that have emerged from this one single stronghold of Republican 0:46:55.840 --> 0:46:58.840 power in the state, which if it were to fall, 0:46:59.200 --> 0:47:04.200 would pretend great changes not just for the politics in 0:47:04.239 --> 0:47:06.879 the state of Texas, but perhaps even the nation. 0:47:07.320 --> 0:47:11.000 It's been remarkable because school board meetings used to be 0:47:11.040 --> 0:47:14.640 really dull and talking. You used to talk about boundaries 0:47:14.719 --> 0:47:17.560 for particular campuses, you know which students are going to 0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:20.920 tend which class. But now over the last few years, 0:47:21.000 --> 0:47:24.960 very often they've been scenes of screaming, matches, threats, and 0:47:25.040 --> 0:47:30.799 so on. Texas in many ways has become a laboratory 0:47:30.840 --> 0:47:36.960 of autocracy, and again it's a model for other states 0:47:37.040 --> 0:47:41.440 that have a right wing political leadership. For instance, the 0:47:41.520 --> 0:47:47.160 Texas Republican Party platform adopted this year called for changes 0:47:47.200 --> 0:47:50.719 in the way statewide officials like governor would be elected, 0:47:51.280 --> 0:47:55.240 and essentially, the Republican Party called for creating a local 0:47:55.360 --> 0:47:59.520 version of the electoral college. Under these proposed changes, a 0:47:59.600 --> 0:48:04.440 candidate for governor, lieutenant governor, all the down ballot statewide 0:48:04.480 --> 0:48:08.960 offices could win the popular vote and still lose the 0:48:09.040 --> 0:48:13.760 election unless they carry a majority of the two hundred 0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:17.520 and fifty four counties in the state, most of which 0:48:18.080 --> 0:48:25.279 are very white, very conservative, very fundamentalist. If this became law, 0:48:25.360 --> 0:48:29.440 the proposal would guarantee permanent Republican rule in the state, 0:48:30.000 --> 0:48:32.520 and as I said, other Republican states are looking at 0:48:32.520 --> 0:48:35.600 this proposal. It hasn't been proposed as legislation, but that 0:48:35.640 --> 0:48:41.040 would really end any pretense of democracy because most people 0:48:41.040 --> 0:48:43.640 in Texas live in cities like the rest of the 0:48:43.760 --> 0:48:48.320 United States. Another way that Republicans have maintained their grip 0:48:48.360 --> 0:48:52.000 on the state is by waging a never ending culture 0:48:52.040 --> 0:48:56.280 war centered on matters of faith. So if you really 0:48:56.280 --> 0:49:00.120 want to understand Texas, its culture, and its politics, you 0:49:00.160 --> 0:49:03.560 can't avoid a discussion of religion. You have to dive 0:49:03.719 --> 0:49:07.759 into a one particular type of Christianity. We've already referred to. 0:49:08.719 --> 0:49:12.719 This interpretation of the Bible motivates right wing voters and 0:49:12.800 --> 0:49:16.120 the vast rural sections of the state and the outer 0:49:16.280 --> 0:49:21.240 suburbs and the major cities. It's disproportionately molded the state's 0:49:21.360 --> 0:49:24.960 laws and attitudes where its African Americans, immigrants, and the 0:49:25.000 --> 0:49:29.440 people we've talked about women, gay and trans people, and 0:49:29.560 --> 0:49:32.040 also non Christians like Jews and Muslims. 0:49:32.800 --> 0:49:36.040 If you trap the sort of issues that are being 0:49:36.080 --> 0:49:39.000 discussed by the Republican Party of Texas and you look back, 0:49:39.120 --> 0:49:42.840 say to the time of George H. W. Bush, and 0:49:42.920 --> 0:49:45.560 you look to now, it will be very clear to 0:49:45.600 --> 0:49:48.399 you that the topics have changed. The sort of things 0:49:48.400 --> 0:49:51.520 that they talk about. It's less about low taxes, it's 0:49:51.560 --> 0:49:55.560 less about being business friendly, it's less about letting you 0:49:55.760 --> 0:49:58.600 do what you want in your personal life, and it's 0:49:58.719 --> 0:50:05.080 much more about imposing a particular religious viewpoint on others 0:50:05.320 --> 0:50:12.319 through policy. And the most vocal, perhaps one of the 0:50:12.360 --> 0:50:17.080 most highly organized and certainly flush with funds, sect of 0:50:17.160 --> 0:50:20.759 Christianity that is, you know, driving this is this group 0:50:20.800 --> 0:50:26.080 of Christian fundamentalists that religious scholars broadly describe as dispensationalists. 0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:29.879 So what's a dispensationalist. It's a fancy word for someone 0:50:29.880 --> 0:50:32.520 who believes that we are living in the end times. 0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:36.600 The end times being this idea that at any moment 0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:41.080 now all true Christians will be wisked up into the 0:50:41.120 --> 0:50:44.520 clouds in an event called the Rapture, that an embodiment 0:50:44.560 --> 0:50:47.240 of Satan called the Antichrist will take over the world 0:50:47.280 --> 0:50:50.160 and try to destroy Israel. And you know, all of 0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:54.040 this is, you know, presaging the final judgment, you know, 0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:58.120 the day when the Lord Jesus comes down and he 0:50:58.280 --> 0:51:01.759 basically decides who's done well, who's done bad, and that 0:51:01.880 --> 0:51:03.320 settles it for all eternity. 0:51:04.120 --> 0:51:12.400 This particular strain of fundamentalism in Texas culture and politics 0:51:12.960 --> 0:51:18.000 has a profound impact on global politics. The dispensationalists are 0:51:18.000 --> 0:51:20.800 certain World War three is going to consume the planet. 0:51:21.560 --> 0:51:25.000 They believe there's going to be a final battle between 0:51:25.080 --> 0:51:28.160 good and evil called the Battle of Armageddon. And they 0:51:28.200 --> 0:51:32.760 believe this, and this is significant. They believe that Jesus 0:51:33.040 --> 0:51:38.279 Christ will come back specifically to stop World War three 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:42.160 for a particular purpose. He's going to come to prevent 0:51:42.480 --> 0:51:46.360 the destruction of all remaining Jewish people on the planet. 0:51:47.239 --> 0:51:49.319 And they believe that millions of Jewish people are going 0:51:49.360 --> 0:51:54.200 to die, those who survive are going to convert to Christianity, 0:51:54.239 --> 0:51:58.960 and when Jesus returns, he will establish what's essentially a 0:51:59.560 --> 0:52:03.320 divine dictatorship that will be a time of perfect peace 0:52:03.360 --> 0:52:05.400 and harmony, called the Millennium. 0:52:05.960 --> 0:52:10.040 Texans have played a major role in popularizing dispensationalism and 0:52:10.080 --> 0:52:14.440 its doom day theology both in modern times but also historically, 0:52:15.120 --> 0:52:18.520 one Texas writer named Michael Ennis once called the city 0:52:18.560 --> 0:52:22.080 of Dallas the Athens of the Apocalypse, and in the 0:52:22.120 --> 0:52:26.440 late twentieth century, predicting the end of the world was 0:52:26.760 --> 0:52:32.920 a lucrative business. So there was a theological center here 0:52:32.960 --> 0:52:38.920 in Dallas that was one of the most influential groups 0:52:38.920 --> 0:52:42.440 when it came to originating and promoting. 0:52:42.400 --> 0:52:44.440 This idea of the end times. 0:52:44.520 --> 0:52:47.640 And it also has to do with one gentleman named 0:52:48.239 --> 0:52:52.279 Cyrus Scofield. But before we talk about Cyrus Schofield, a 0:52:52.360 --> 0:52:53.040 quick ad break. 0:53:05.800 --> 0:53:10.480 What happened was there's this member, a convert to the 0:53:10.480 --> 0:53:16.240 Congregationalist church who came from Kansas. He had been a 0:53:16.280 --> 0:53:19.200 politician in Kansas who had to leave office because he 0:53:19.280 --> 0:53:23.839 was accused of accepting bribes. He later said he was 0:53:24.400 --> 0:53:27.480 struggling with alcoholism at the time. His name is Cyrus Schofield, 0:53:28.200 --> 0:53:33.759 and he converts to Christianity and he's invited to head 0:53:33.800 --> 0:53:39.000 this Congregationalist church that has a tiny congregation in Dallas, Texas. 0:53:40.080 --> 0:53:43.960 And when he gets here, he brings this dispensationalism he's 0:53:44.040 --> 0:53:50.919 learned from other evangelists and he's a modernizer. He has 0:53:51.040 --> 0:53:59.640 adult education classes correspondents courses on the Bible, and eventually 0:53:59.719 --> 0:54:03.200 he produces something published in nineteen oh nine called the 0:54:03.239 --> 0:54:12.040 Schofield Reference Bible that basically is the King James Bible 0:54:12.520 --> 0:54:16.479 with footnotes that he and his co editors have put 0:54:16.520 --> 0:54:20.719 together where they say, these strange verses in the Book 0:54:20.800 --> 0:54:23.640 of Daniel, in the Book of Revelation that refer to 0:54:24.239 --> 0:54:27.640 beast with seven heads and ten horns, and you know, 0:54:27.719 --> 0:54:33.399 these other strange creatures, and this highly symbolic language has 0:54:33.480 --> 0:54:37.760 a very literal, obvious meaning, and that is the return 0:54:38.320 --> 0:54:42.719 of Jewish people to the state of Israel, and how 0:54:42.760 --> 0:54:44.799 that marks the beginning of the end. 0:54:45.880 --> 0:54:51.399 So the Schofield Reference Bible extremely popular when it comes out. 0:54:52.160 --> 0:54:56.280 It was so popular it didn't save effectively the Oxford 0:54:56.440 --> 0:54:58.040 University Press from going. 0:54:57.920 --> 0:55:02.000 Yeah under during the Great Depression. That was very much 0:55:02.480 --> 0:55:06.759 a possibility that Oxford University Press would go under. And 0:55:07.719 --> 0:55:10.680 Schofield was lucky in some ways that you could put 0:55:10.680 --> 0:55:13.520 it that way because the Reference Bible comes out in 0:55:13.600 --> 0:55:19.080 nineteen oh nine, and four years later, what was at 0:55:19.080 --> 0:55:22.720 that point the most catastrophic war in human history, World 0:55:22.719 --> 0:55:26.600 War One, breaks out with a level of death and 0:55:26.960 --> 0:55:34.920 technology that was unprecedented in its destructiveness. Then the depression happens. 0:55:34.960 --> 0:55:38.799 You have the rise of these fascist dictators, and there's 0:55:38.840 --> 0:55:41.719 a sense that the world as we knew it was collapsing. 0:55:42.360 --> 0:55:46.800 Capitalism might collapse, you know, you might have communists takeover, 0:55:46.920 --> 0:55:50.240 you might have fascist takeover. And then of course World 0:55:50.239 --> 0:55:55.000 War Two, and then finally the thing that really makes 0:55:55.880 --> 0:55:59.759 Schofield seem like he was onto something in terms of 0:55:59.840 --> 0:56:04.400 his Biblical interpretation. And this particular interpretation had been around 0:56:05.200 --> 0:56:09.520 in certain variants for centuries and centuries, but it had 0:56:09.520 --> 0:56:12.600 always been a minority view. But what really made it 0:56:12.600 --> 0:56:17.359 seem like Schofield was onto something was nineteen forty eight 0:56:18.520 --> 0:56:23.279 when the State of Israel is established, the modern state 0:56:23.280 --> 0:56:26.240 of Israel. Because he had been saying this would happen, 0:56:26.320 --> 0:56:29.320 this would be the sign of the end. It becomes 0:56:29.360 --> 0:56:33.640 the point where a lot of churches ministers are measured 0:56:33.760 --> 0:56:38.440 by the degree to which they promote Scofieldism, and Protestant 0:56:38.480 --> 0:56:42.040 churches ministers get fired if they don't begin to talk 0:56:42.080 --> 0:56:43.320 about the end times. 0:56:43.640 --> 0:56:47.400 Schofield kind of won the lottery with timing, and you 0:56:47.400 --> 0:56:50.040 can imagine a world maybe where the Schofield Bible didn't 0:56:50.040 --> 0:56:50.760 take off. 0:56:50.760 --> 0:56:53.920 Because it hadn't come out at that time that it 0:56:53.960 --> 0:57:01.480 did now one of Schofield's acolytes separated by several decades. 0:57:01.719 --> 0:57:05.759 Schofield had been dead for a long time. When you 0:57:05.880 --> 0:57:10.640 have a student at the Dallas Theological Seminary, name how Lindsay, 0:57:10.680 --> 0:57:14.879 who had been a tugboat captain, he is attending this 0:57:14.920 --> 0:57:19.720 particular school, Dallas Theological Seminary had actually been established in 0:57:19.720 --> 0:57:26.520 the nineteen twenties by allies associates of Cyrus Schofield. It 0:57:26.520 --> 0:57:30.240 had been a center of the study of Biblical prophecy. 0:57:30.560 --> 0:57:34.560 And basically Lindsay's a student, and a lot of his 0:57:34.760 --> 0:57:37.919 peers said, basically he took his class notes and turned 0:57:37.960 --> 0:57:43.000 into a book and his real effort. He had been 0:57:43.560 --> 0:57:47.000 a leader in the campus Crusade for Christ, which was 0:57:47.040 --> 0:57:51.240 an evangelical group that was trying to fight the counterculture hippies, 0:57:51.400 --> 0:57:55.560 LSD and so on, and so he had that experience 0:57:55.600 --> 0:57:57.600 and he brought it into the writing of a best 0:57:57.600 --> 0:58:00.320 selling book called The Late Great Planet Earth. And The 0:58:00.360 --> 0:58:03.680 Late Great Planet Earth is written in the language of 0:58:03.720 --> 0:58:07.240 the time. He tries to use hippie type of lingo 0:58:07.560 --> 0:58:12.040 in to catch on with the youth culture and it's 0:58:11.640 --> 0:58:15.080 his timing, just like Schofields is great. This is a 0:58:15.120 --> 0:58:19.160 time where there's an obsession with hidden knowledge. You have 0:58:19.960 --> 0:58:25.440 really popular books selling about the lost continent of Atlantis UFOs, 0:58:26.560 --> 0:58:32.400 the phenomena supposedly a spontaneous human combustion. Did ancient aliens 0:58:32.480 --> 0:58:35.200 build the Pyramids? And if you went to a convenience 0:58:35.240 --> 0:58:41.520 store or a store department store, you might find racks 0:58:41.560 --> 0:58:44.160 of paper books with all this hidden knowledge. And people 0:58:44.200 --> 0:58:47.440 believed that there was something hidden because of Watergate and 0:58:47.520 --> 0:58:52.040 because of Vietnam, and so this became a phenomenal seller. 0:58:52.120 --> 0:58:55.240 It was the best selling quote unquote nonfiction book of 0:58:55.280 --> 0:58:59.160 the nineteen seventies. It later got made into a pseudo 0:58:59.240 --> 0:59:03.520 documentary that was narrated by the movie star Orson Wells. 0:59:03.640 --> 0:59:05.880 Yeah, I mean it was so successful that it was 0:59:05.920 --> 0:59:09.080 like twenty eight million copies by nineteen ninety had been sold. 0:59:09.560 --> 0:59:13.720 And if you've got Orson Wells buttery voice narrating it 0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:18.080 as if it has some real import, certainly, many, many, 0:59:18.120 --> 0:59:23.120 many people were exposed to the ideas of how Lindsay Man. 0:59:23.040 --> 0:59:27.440 Is faced by unprecedented perils threatened to send him crashing. 0:59:27.520 --> 0:59:28.680 And the extention. 0:59:29.880 --> 0:59:33.320 Now from how Lindsay's incredible best selling book comes the film, 0:59:33.360 --> 0:59:35.440 which explores the terrifying. 0:59:35.000 --> 0:59:36.560 Policies of the revelations. 0:59:36.960 --> 0:59:40.480 Here's Our Planet Truly and Mortal Peril. 0:59:40.720 --> 0:59:44.080 The Late Great Planet Earth, featuring Orson Wells. 0:59:44.880 --> 0:59:50.280 But it didn't stop there. Lindsay's book inspired some other 0:59:50.320 --> 0:59:53.880 guys who you may have heard of, these two right 0:59:53.880 --> 0:59:57.880 wing political activists and Christian evangelicals named Tim Lahay and 0:59:58.040 --> 0:59:58.360 Jerry B. 0:59:58.520 --> 0:59:59.040 Jenkins. 0:59:59.720 --> 1:00:05.120 And and they're the creators of the Left Behind series. Now, 1:00:05.160 --> 1:00:07.320 if you don't know the Left Behind series, you may 1:00:07.360 --> 1:00:09.760 have been living under a rock, or maybe you weren't 1:00:09.800 --> 1:00:13.040 born yet. And that's not your fault, but it is 1:00:13.080 --> 1:00:18.040 this publishing empire. At this point, retail giants like Walmart 1:00:18.080 --> 1:00:22.280 stocked the books. They sold eighty million copies, warehouses full 1:00:22.280 --> 1:00:27.680 of merch sequels, prequels, graphic novels, audio books, calendars, greeting cards, 1:00:27.960 --> 1:00:31.040 a shoot them up computer game based on the books. 1:00:31.520 --> 1:00:36.680 All of this stuff was centrally talking about the rapture 1:00:37.040 --> 1:00:40.080 the end times. That's what the Left Behind series was about. 1:00:40.080 --> 1:00:42.840 And those who are left behind are those who were 1:00:42.840 --> 1:00:46.560 not raptured. And these films center on the chaos that 1:00:46.640 --> 1:00:50.960 breaks out right after the rapture, really really popular stuff. 1:00:50.960 --> 1:00:53.280 Will play a quick clip so you can get a 1:00:53.320 --> 1:00:55.120 sense of what that's like. 1:00:55.640 --> 1:00:59.440 He took them to protect them, what from the darkest 1:00:59.480 --> 1:01:03.000 time in the history of this world, persecution. 1:01:03.960 --> 1:01:05.440 And seven years of darkness. 1:01:05.440 --> 1:01:06.160 He took them there. 1:01:07.200 --> 1:01:10.720 The left Behind books, they basically depict Jesus not as 1:01:10.720 --> 1:01:13.040 a source of love and forgiveness, but as this like 1:01:13.640 --> 1:01:17.880 source of vengeance and bloodshed. One person who spoke to 1:01:18.040 --> 1:01:20.280 in the preparation of this episode described him as a 1:01:20.280 --> 1:01:27.520 sort of rambo Jesus, to be compared to mister Rogers Jesus, 1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:28.120 you could say. 1:01:29.000 --> 1:01:35.600 And what's particularly dangerous is sometimes believers in this interpretation 1:01:35.680 --> 1:01:39.240 of the Bible try to make the end times happen 1:01:40.480 --> 1:01:44.440 sooner rather than later. Yeah, I can mention two cases, 1:01:44.480 --> 1:01:48.200 one better known than the other. You had a father's 1:01:48.240 --> 1:01:52.920 son evangelical team called Gardner Ted Armstrong. His father was 1:01:53.000 --> 1:01:57.640 named Herbert W. Armstrong. That a radio broadcasting empire. The 1:01:57.640 --> 1:02:01.600 problem is called the World Tomorrow. And they had college 1:02:01.640 --> 1:02:07.960 campuses in California and in Big Sandy, Texas, unaccredited college, 1:02:08.560 --> 1:02:14.960 unaccredited college absolutely And one person who had listened to 1:02:15.000 --> 1:02:18.640 the armstrongs on the radio, and there's an Australian named 1:02:18.680 --> 1:02:22.440 Michael Dennis Rohan on August twenty first, nineteen sixty nine, 1:02:23.000 --> 1:02:29.280 actually travels to the Aloxa Mosque in Jerusalem because he 1:02:29.400 --> 1:02:33.120 believes that's a key focal point of where armageddon is 1:02:33.160 --> 1:02:37.080 going to take place, and he actually starts a fire 1:02:37.680 --> 1:02:40.919 in that mosque, and that's a revered one of those 1:02:40.960 --> 1:02:44.080 holy sites in Islam. And there was a time where 1:02:44.080 --> 1:02:50.360 there was a diplomatic crisis caused by this believer in dispensationalism. Then, 1:02:50.840 --> 1:02:54.760 of course we have what had happened to Waco, where 1:02:54.800 --> 1:02:59.240 you had a sect very much obsessed with en times 1:02:59.360 --> 1:03:02.440 and with this spensationalism led by a man named David 1:03:02.480 --> 1:03:05.920 Koresh nineteen ninety three, he led his followers on this 1:03:06.040 --> 1:03:12.400 fifty one day standoff with federal and state officials over 1:03:12.800 --> 1:03:17.840 the illegal weapons that this group, the Branch Davidians held. 1:03:18.560 --> 1:03:24.480 Eventually you have an exchange of gunfire between the agents 1:03:24.520 --> 1:03:29.400 and the Branch Davidians, and then on April nineteenth, the 1:03:29.440 --> 1:03:35.200 Feds decide to charge in and there's a fire and 1:03:35.440 --> 1:03:38.400 seventy six people die, including twenty five children. 1:03:38.960 --> 1:03:42.440 In the modern day, you know, we've got two hugely 1:03:42.480 --> 1:03:47.600 influential people who promote End Times theology. Now, one of 1:03:47.640 --> 1:03:52.840 them is the biggest political donor in the entire state 1:03:52.840 --> 1:03:58.240 of Texas, more money donated than anyone else. And his 1:03:58.320 --> 1:04:00.320 name is Tim Dunn, and we'll talk about him in 1:04:00.360 --> 1:04:02.760 a second, But first I want to talk about someone 1:04:03.440 --> 1:04:06.720 who is also pretty influential, maybe not as wealthy as 1:04:06.760 --> 1:04:09.640 Tim Dunn, who I should mention got his money through oil. 1:04:10.640 --> 1:04:13.640 But this is a man named John Hagy. He is 1:04:13.960 --> 1:04:19.520 the pastor of a twenty two thousand member church in 1:04:19.560 --> 1:04:23.280 Texas called Cornerstone Church, and I think he has a 1:04:23.320 --> 1:04:27.120 global audience as large as one hundred million people. So 1:04:27.720 --> 1:04:30.240 back in the day, as a twenty eight year old 1:04:30.320 --> 1:04:33.760 young man, he took part in the Wallace Youth, which 1:04:33.840 --> 1:04:39.200 is an organization devoted to supporting the presidential candidacy of 1:04:39.280 --> 1:04:43.720 white supremacist Alabama Governor George Wallace in nineteen sixty eight. Yeah, 1:04:43.800 --> 1:04:45.200 let's just hear from Wallace real quick. 1:04:45.920 --> 1:04:49.240 In the name of the greatest people that I've ever 1:04:49.480 --> 1:04:53.720 taught differ. I've brought a line in the dusk and 1:04:53.880 --> 1:04:59.200 passed the government before the THEATA Turner, and I face segregation. Now, 1:05:00.520 --> 1:05:04.440 Tom and Sarah Gosan forever. 1:05:05.280 --> 1:05:09.120 So since then, in his fifty eight years as a 1:05:09.160 --> 1:05:11.960 non denominational pastor, hage has proven to be as much 1:05:11.960 --> 1:05:15.960 of a lightning rod as Wallace. When Hurricane Katrina killed 1:05:16.080 --> 1:05:19.080 nearly fourteen hundred people in New Orleans in two thousand 1:05:19.120 --> 1:05:23.520 and five, hage insisted the superstorm represented God's wrath at 1:05:23.560 --> 1:05:28.800 a planned gay pripride. I can't even believe that that's real. Yeah, 1:05:28.840 --> 1:05:31.640 so he really said, Oh, you celebrated the gays, and 1:05:31.680 --> 1:05:33.440 so God killed a bunch. 1:05:33.240 --> 1:05:35.360 Of you with a hurricane. He really said that. 1:05:36.080 --> 1:05:40.200 He's also called the Catholic Church a false cult and 1:05:40.280 --> 1:05:44.360 has falsely claimed that Muslims are commanded by the Qur'an 1:05:44.520 --> 1:05:47.360 to kill Christians in Jews. So he's a you know, 1:05:47.520 --> 1:05:51.680 really moderate guy when he comes to his word choice 1:05:51.680 --> 1:05:52.400 in his rhetoric. 1:05:53.280 --> 1:05:56.880 Hagey, for instance, believes that Jewish people are still God's chosen, 1:05:57.320 --> 1:06:01.840 and he often quotes a line from Genesis twelve three, 1:06:02.160 --> 1:06:05.960 twelfth chapter third verse in which God says to Abraham, 1:06:06.440 --> 1:06:09.480 I will bless those who bless you, and curse those 1:06:09.800 --> 1:06:14.160 who curse you, and he interprets that the mean that 1:06:14.320 --> 1:06:19.400 if the United States ever fails to support the State 1:06:19.440 --> 1:06:22.360 of Israel in any of its policies, or if it 1:06:22.640 --> 1:06:27.640 attempts to encourage Israel to trade land for peace, to 1:06:27.680 --> 1:06:30.840 set aside land for the Palestinians to establish their own nation, 1:06:32.440 --> 1:06:35.840 that that leader is violating a divine commandment to quote, 1:06:35.920 --> 1:06:39.720 not divide my land, and there will be terrible consequences. 1:06:40.200 --> 1:06:47.400 So I one dispensationalists pastor basically said that the United 1:06:47.440 --> 1:06:50.600 States has economic problems whenever it fails to support Israel. 1:06:50.960 --> 1:06:54.760 Hagey in twenty fourteen said that a small outbreak of 1:06:54.800 --> 1:06:58.640 the Ebola virus in the United States was God's vengeance 1:06:58.760 --> 1:07:04.160 against President Barack Obama for supporting the establishment of Palestinian state. 1:07:04.600 --> 1:07:08.320 And of course, when that is a big attitude amongst 1:07:08.360 --> 1:07:12.960 a really significant block of voters, that makes the United 1:07:13.000 --> 1:07:17.480 States really have problems when it tries to mediate in 1:07:17.520 --> 1:07:18.280 that conflict. 1:07:19.080 --> 1:07:21.280 We'll talk a little bit more about John Hagey. Right 1:07:21.360 --> 1:07:36.439 after this ad break, you might be asking, who cares 1:07:36.440 --> 1:07:39.560 about this guy John hagy Like, why does his interpretation 1:07:39.640 --> 1:07:42.280 of the Bible matter at all? Why does what he 1:07:42.400 --> 1:07:46.760 say have anything to do with my life? And there's 1:07:46.760 --> 1:07:50.680 a number of reasons why it matters. So, I mean, 1:07:50.720 --> 1:07:53.120 he could be considered the most important leader of the 1:07:53.240 --> 1:07:57.560 Christian Zionist movement for starters. He formed an organization in 1:07:57.560 --> 1:08:01.000 two thousand and six called Christians United for Israel, which 1:08:01.040 --> 1:08:03.880 has like a reported ten million members in the United States. 1:08:04.200 --> 1:08:07.880 Not sure how accurate or real that is, but you know, 1:08:08.280 --> 1:08:11.800 he has donated through his organizations more than fifty eight 1:08:11.880 --> 1:08:16.160 million dollars to right wing extremists in Israel's specifically ones 1:08:16.200 --> 1:08:19.080 that have you know, sponsored settlers to move to the 1:08:19.160 --> 1:08:20.600 occupied West Bank. 1:08:20.520 --> 1:08:23.760 In you know, violation of international law. 1:08:24.760 --> 1:08:26.760 And he's, you know, he's pushed Congress to take a 1:08:26.800 --> 1:08:29.680 hard line on the Palestinian issue of Palestinian statehood. He 1:08:29.760 --> 1:08:34.479 has the ear of elected officials in Texas state level 1:08:34.479 --> 1:08:38.840 politicians like Greg Gabbott and Dan Patrick have been seen 1:08:38.880 --> 1:08:41.920 with him at campaign events, have featured him at campaign events. 1:08:42.560 --> 1:08:46.000 Hagey has tried to you know, influence a number of 1:08:46.040 --> 1:08:50.439 issues and has had success. He was sought as someone 1:08:50.479 --> 1:08:55.120 whose endorsement mattered in the presidential elections of George H. W. 1:08:55.200 --> 1:08:56.800 Bush and George W. Bush. 1:08:56.960 --> 1:08:59.400 He was an early supporter of Donald Trump, and he 1:08:59.439 --> 1:09:05.040 influences the other major pastors as well, And so it's 1:09:05.120 --> 1:09:09.560 hard to say that people like this don't matter, particularly 1:09:09.600 --> 1:09:15.360 whenever you know they have been invited to speak during 1:09:15.720 --> 1:09:18.479 big events like the March for Israel in twenty twenty three, 1:09:19.000 --> 1:09:21.519 which drew tens of thousands of people to Washington, DC. 1:09:22.000 --> 1:09:24.760 And who was there, John Hage. 1:09:25.000 --> 1:09:29.880 And here's one of the paradoxes of this movement. When 1:09:29.920 --> 1:09:33.280 Hage was invited to speak at this pro Israel event 1:09:34.120 --> 1:09:40.080 after the October seventh Hamas attacks in Neurope, Israeli Kibbutz 1:09:40.800 --> 1:09:43.800 Hage was invited and a lot of Jewish people were 1:09:43.840 --> 1:09:50.240 horrified because he really does capture one the central paradoxes 1:09:50.280 --> 1:09:56.519 of dispensationalism, and that is someone can be inflexibly pro 1:09:56.640 --> 1:10:01.400 Israel in anti Semitic at the same time. And so 1:10:01.600 --> 1:10:07.240 John Hagen is promoted a very old anti Semitic myth 1:10:07.560 --> 1:10:11.200 that rich Jewish people control the world's finances. He talks 1:10:11.360 --> 1:10:15.440 about the Rothschild family, which has always been an obsession 1:10:16.080 --> 1:10:21.120 of anti Semites. You know, the secret puppet masters of 1:10:21.160 --> 1:10:25.439 the world, you know who rob the typical, the average 1:10:25.479 --> 1:10:29.080 person of money to gain wealth. They cause wars to 1:10:29.240 --> 1:10:35.200 enrich themselves. He actually described Hitler based on nothing as 1:10:35.439 --> 1:10:39.680 a half breed Jew, and he said that Hitler was 1:10:39.720 --> 1:10:43.840 sent by God himself. So he's Hitler was an emissary 1:10:43.840 --> 1:10:49.519 of God as a hunter to persecute Jews in Europe 1:10:49.840 --> 1:10:53.360 in the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties, specifically for the 1:10:53.400 --> 1:10:57.880 purpose of forcing them to leave Europe and settle in Palestine. 1:10:58.800 --> 1:11:01.200 And you know, he said that this was all part 1:11:01.240 --> 1:11:04.960 of the Divine plan. Nazism was part of the Divine plan. 1:11:05.160 --> 1:11:07.280 Yeah, but don't just take our word for it. You 1:11:07.280 --> 1:11:12.479 can listen to him say something along these lines right now, How. 1:11:12.360 --> 1:11:15.599 Did it happen because God allowed it to happen. Why 1:11:15.640 --> 1:11:19.200 did it happen because God said, my top priority for 1:11:19.240 --> 1:11:20.880 the Jewish people is to get them. 1:11:20.760 --> 1:11:22.879 To come back to the land of Israel. 1:11:23.240 --> 1:11:25.360 Today Israel is back in the land, and they are 1:11:25.360 --> 1:11:28.439 at Hisequel thirty seven and eight. They're physically alive, but 1:11:28.479 --> 1:11:31.800 they're not spiritually alive. Now, how is God going to 1:11:31.880 --> 1:11:35.400 cause the Jewish people to come spiritually alive? And say, 1:11:35.640 --> 1:11:38.080 the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, he is God. 1:11:38.880 --> 1:11:42.480 So yeah, you know, hege has predicted that the Antichrist 1:11:43.040 --> 1:11:47.800 will be a half breed gay Jew and will rule 1:11:47.800 --> 1:11:50.760 the planet on behalf of Satan. Those are the kinds 1:11:50.800 --> 1:11:53.439 of things that he believes and he spreads. And in 1:11:53.520 --> 1:11:57.280 spite of statements like these, several Israeli governments have welcome 1:11:57.320 --> 1:12:00.880 to the support of right wing and times past like Hagy. 1:12:01.040 --> 1:12:05.000 I mean, they don't have any issue with working with 1:12:05.040 --> 1:12:08.719 someone like Hagy. And obviously that relationship is cynical because 1:12:09.160 --> 1:12:12.639 you know, people like Hagy are able to help bring 1:12:12.760 --> 1:12:17.680 material resources to Israel and further solidify the relationship that 1:12:17.760 --> 1:12:19.679 Israel has with the state of Texas. 1:12:20.520 --> 1:12:25.840 And there's a real interesting synthusis between the far right 1:12:25.960 --> 1:12:31.719 in Texas and the very right wing government that rules Israel. 1:12:31.800 --> 1:12:38.040 Now Israel depends on Texas oil. Many of the weapons 1:12:38.479 --> 1:12:43.240 Israel is using in its warren Gonza are manufactured in Texas, 1:12:43.320 --> 1:12:46.080 including in the Dallas Fort Worth area where Steve and 1:12:46.120 --> 1:12:50.840 I are having this conversation. You have some of the 1:12:50.880 --> 1:12:57.200 wealthiest American supporters of Israel, like hyper conservatives such as 1:12:57.200 --> 1:13:01.320 the widow of the casino magnate Sheldon Addison, who have 1:13:02.360 --> 1:13:07.120 spent quite a bit of money flying Texas politicians like 1:13:07.200 --> 1:13:11.880 Governor Greg Abbott, the agricultural Commissioner, said Miller, members of 1:13:11.880 --> 1:13:16.839 the state legislature to Israel to promote close business ties 1:13:16.960 --> 1:13:21.280 and to ensure that weapons manufactured in Texas and that 1:13:21.320 --> 1:13:24.200 Texas oil flows to that state. 1:13:25.400 --> 1:13:28.240 In the background of all of this is the money, 1:13:28.600 --> 1:13:33.599 the money backing these politicians, and the largest and most 1:13:33.840 --> 1:13:36.720 powerful political donor in Texas is someone who we have 1:13:36.840 --> 1:13:42.679 mentioned already, billionaire oil man Tim Dunn. So Tim Dunn, 1:13:42.760 --> 1:13:46.240 who is he? What's his deal? He's a pastor, He's 1:13:46.280 --> 1:13:50.679 based in Midland, which is in West Texas, and over 1:13:50.720 --> 1:13:54.120 the last decade, Dunn has dumped tens of millions of 1:13:54.160 --> 1:13:57.360 dollars into the campaign coffers of far right politicians and 1:13:57.400 --> 1:14:03.360 political action committees that promote sendiary messages, including the one 1:14:03.400 --> 1:14:06.360 group that I previously mentioned was caught meeting with a 1:14:06.520 --> 1:14:11.479 self admitted Hitler fan, Nick went Is. Nevertheless, Dunn is 1:14:11.600 --> 1:14:14.920 named alongside Hagey on the annual list of Israel's top 1:14:15.040 --> 1:14:19.840 fifty Christian Allies published by the Israel Allies Foundation, of 1:14:19.880 --> 1:14:24.200 which Done incidentally is the chairman of the It's like 1:14:24.240 --> 1:14:27.080 the Christian Advisory Board. 1:14:27.960 --> 1:14:31.600 So yeah, this really really. 1:14:31.520 --> 1:14:35.720 Powerful donor who has his thumb on the scales all 1:14:35.760 --> 1:14:41.360 across the state. He too is an End Times prophecy believer. 1:14:41.560 --> 1:14:44.559 And he's not just a believer. He preaches it at 1:14:44.600 --> 1:14:46.759 his own church in Midland, where he's a pastor. 1:14:47.240 --> 1:14:52.519 God is a consuming fire taking vengeance on those who 1:14:52.520 --> 1:14:54.720 do not know God and on those who do not 1:14:54.840 --> 1:14:58.639 obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. The word 1:14:58.680 --> 1:15:03.360 obey means listen to, So we're talking here about unbelievers. 1:15:03.800 --> 1:15:07.240 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence 1:15:07.240 --> 1:15:09.200 of the Lord and from the glory of His power. 1:15:09.960 --> 1:15:13.080 And you know, it's completely changed the nature of the 1:15:13.120 --> 1:15:16.360 Republican Party his influence. They were already conservative and already 1:15:16.400 --> 1:15:19.360 religious to begin with, but the sort of wave of 1:15:19.479 --> 1:15:23.360 politicians that have been supported by Dunn has taken that 1:15:23.520 --> 1:15:24.800 to a new level. 1:15:26.439 --> 1:15:31.679 And you know, I mean it's resulted in, I think, 1:15:32.400 --> 1:15:37.200 a real assault on free speech in the state of Texas. 1:15:37.920 --> 1:15:42.519 We have religious groups like Christians United for Israel in 1:15:42.560 --> 1:15:47.800 the Texas Eagle Forum lobbing the state legislature and persuading 1:15:48.360 --> 1:15:51.519 politicians like Greg Abbott and Dan Patrick were sympathetic to 1:15:51.560 --> 1:15:57.240 their agenda to pass laws that limit the way people 1:15:57.280 --> 1:16:02.600 who oppose Israeli policies can protests. So, for instance, twenty seventeen, 1:16:02.760 --> 1:16:06.560 Texas passed Hospill eighty nine, a law that banned the 1:16:06.600 --> 1:16:10.120 stay from doing any business with any company or individual 1:16:10.200 --> 1:16:13.720 contractors who participate in the boycott of Israel that many 1:16:13.760 --> 1:16:17.760 activists have participated in. And on March twenty seventh of 1:16:18.400 --> 1:16:21.760 this year, when you began to have a wave of 1:16:21.880 --> 1:16:25.800 protests across the nation and in Texas, and there were 1:16:25.800 --> 1:16:31.439 major protests at the UT Austin campus at the University 1:16:31.479 --> 1:16:35.240 of Texas at Dallas, which is in a suburb called Richardson, 1:16:36.160 --> 1:16:39.800 another one at the University of North Texas UT Arlington, 1:16:40.320 --> 1:16:44.639 University of Texas at San Antonio. Abbott responded to these 1:16:44.680 --> 1:16:51.040 protests by issuing an executive order that defined a common 1:16:51.400 --> 1:16:55.880 slogan chanted by supporters of Palestinian statehood from the River 1:16:55.960 --> 1:16:59.599 to the Sea Palace Steine will be Free, as anti 1:16:59.640 --> 1:17:04.839 SeMet and it required public colleges and universities to review 1:17:04.880 --> 1:17:10.320 their free speech policies and to punish what the state 1:17:10.360 --> 1:17:14.599 regards as anti Semitic speech by faculty and students. And 1:17:14.680 --> 1:17:19.440 it targeted two specific groups, two student groups, the Palestine 1:17:19.479 --> 1:17:23.720 Solidarity Committee and students for Justice and Palestine to be 1:17:23.960 --> 1:17:29.320 disciplined for violating these policies the State of Texas saying 1:17:29.479 --> 1:17:31.160 these words are forbidden. 1:17:32.200 --> 1:17:36.200 Indeed, and despite the fact that the University of Texas 1:17:36.200 --> 1:17:40.439 at Austin had issued a video celebrating their so called 1:17:40.479 --> 1:17:43.160 free speech Week, I think it was just a matter 1:17:43.240 --> 1:17:47.280 of months before they arrested one hundred and thirty six 1:17:47.360 --> 1:17:48.680 pro Palestinian. 1:17:48.160 --> 1:17:50.679 Demonstrators at the University of Texas at Austin. 1:17:51.400 --> 1:17:54.920 All across the state, we've seen pro Palestinian protests or 1:17:54.960 --> 1:17:57.360 what you could call anti genocide protests or calls for 1:17:57.479 --> 1:18:02.639 divestment at these various universities, and arrests have happened at 1:18:02.720 --> 1:18:04.480 least three different universities. 1:18:05.200 --> 1:18:10.679 I mentioned earlier a paradox in dispensationalism, and that is 1:18:10.720 --> 1:18:15.479 that some of the people who have absolute devotion to 1:18:15.560 --> 1:18:19.800 promoting the state of Israel are at the same time antisemitic. 1:18:20.520 --> 1:18:26.280 And another paradox is that Schofield himself, Cyrus Schofield himself 1:18:26.640 --> 1:18:31.679 said that Jesus wasn't into politics. He said that when 1:18:31.800 --> 1:18:37.639 Jesus was alive, slavery, inequality of wealth, all of these 1:18:37.840 --> 1:18:41.360 political pressure were all at their worse and Jesus and 1:18:41.439 --> 1:18:45.240 his apostles didn't address any of that. They focus on salvation. 1:18:45.439 --> 1:18:49.160 That Christianity is not about changing this world, because this 1:18:49.240 --> 1:18:51.800 world is doomed and the only person who's going to 1:18:51.800 --> 1:18:59.360 fix anything is Jesus himself. But nevertheless, these dispensationalists at 1:18:59.400 --> 1:19:02.200 the same time are very happy to be involved in 1:19:02.240 --> 1:19:05.840 politics that's not involved in social or form. They don't 1:19:05.880 --> 1:19:08.479 want you to. You know, Schofield was living at a 1:19:08.479 --> 1:19:11.559 time of progressive movement when they were trying to end 1:19:11.640 --> 1:19:15.360 child labor, trying to make workplaces safer, and so on. 1:19:15.880 --> 1:19:19.360 Today we're dealing with issues of wealth, inequality and so on. 1:19:19.720 --> 1:19:23.320 The dispensationalists will say, believing that humans can fix those 1:19:23.360 --> 1:19:28.080 problems with satanic But nevertheless, you should be involved in 1:19:28.120 --> 1:19:32.040 politics if it involves denying women sovereignty over their bodies, 1:19:32.280 --> 1:19:39.559 if it involves banning people from gender affirming care and 1:19:39.600 --> 1:19:43.200 so on, but that politics is okay and so and 1:19:43.280 --> 1:19:46.640 we see this with this activism and trying to suppress 1:19:47.040 --> 1:19:52.320 a particular side of the Israel Palestine. 1:19:51.720 --> 1:19:54.559 Debate, right, And I think that if that strain of 1:19:54.600 --> 1:19:59.640 dispensationalism that's Schofield represented, that sort of a political dispensationalism. 1:20:00.000 --> 1:20:03.160 If it still exists, it is certainly no longer dominant 1:20:03.520 --> 1:20:07.240 because today, you know, we're seeing this end times theology, 1:20:07.720 --> 1:20:11.400 this belief in this theory around the end times, it's 1:20:11.439 --> 1:20:18.760 increasingly overlapping with other sort of distinct trends in Christianity. 1:20:18.840 --> 1:20:21.519 So on the one hand, there's things like the prosperity Gospel, 1:20:21.920 --> 1:20:25.120 which is, you know, best represented by Kenneth Copeland. He's 1:20:25.160 --> 1:20:29.240 the richest pastor in all of the United States, and 1:20:29.320 --> 1:20:31.240 his whole thing is, yeah, if you know you give, 1:20:31.680 --> 1:20:33.880 you get and so you give me your money and 1:20:33.920 --> 1:20:37.200 you prove that you're you know, holy person, you will 1:20:37.520 --> 1:20:39.840 be rewarded. In turn, you will be healed, all of 1:20:39.840 --> 1:20:42.040 your things will be solved. And then the other thing 1:20:42.040 --> 1:20:45.080 that it's overlapping with this end times theology belief is 1:20:46.240 --> 1:20:50.000 what you know, we might just call the Seven Mountains 1:20:50.040 --> 1:20:56.640 dominionist trend or dominionism broadly speaking, which you may or 1:20:56.640 --> 1:20:58.559 may not be familiar with, but it really just breaks 1:20:58.560 --> 1:21:04.360 down to this idea that Christians should be at the 1:21:04.560 --> 1:21:08.880 top of all of the mountains of society, and these 1:21:08.880 --> 1:21:14.120 are just you know, basically stand ins for the segments 1:21:14.120 --> 1:21:18.760 of society they think are important, so education, media, politics, 1:21:18.800 --> 1:21:23.000 what have you. This is a really growing idea as 1:21:23.040 --> 1:21:26.360 a sort of meme in right wing Christianity in these 1:21:26.479 --> 1:21:32.639 sort of non denominational churches, which are the fastest growing 1:21:32.680 --> 1:21:34.960 and largest segment of churches I think we're talking about. 1:21:35.439 --> 1:21:37.639 And those dominionists are the ones who are taking over 1:21:37.680 --> 1:21:43.040 these school boards that are adopting the anti trans policies 1:21:43.080 --> 1:21:45.040 and also banning the books. 1:21:45.080 --> 1:21:49.960 That's right, and it is a very active form of Christianity, 1:21:50.080 --> 1:21:53.080 very politically active, and so through people like Hagey and 1:21:53.120 --> 1:21:57.120 you know, people like Tim Dunn, we see that embodied 1:21:57.280 --> 1:22:00.320 in what they do. The sort of advocate can see 1:22:00.360 --> 1:22:03.559 that John Hagy takes part in in the millions and 1:22:03.600 --> 1:22:07.240 millions of dollars that Tim Dunn dumps into the state 1:22:07.280 --> 1:22:08.360 of Texas. 1:22:08.560 --> 1:22:12.360 And you could almost characterize the Republican Party in Texas, 1:22:13.040 --> 1:22:16.240 which is one of the most important state wings of 1:22:16.280 --> 1:22:19.360 the Republican Party in the United States, as a wholly 1:22:19.439 --> 1:22:23.960 owned done subsidiary. You know. He really many of the 1:22:23.960 --> 1:22:29.120 most infamous Texas politicians in this era, such as Ken Paxton, 1:22:29.640 --> 1:22:32.920 are generously supported by Dounn. And so I think that 1:22:33.000 --> 1:22:36.960 if we kind of wrap this up, I think that 1:22:37.000 --> 1:22:43.000 we could say that the disdain from activism that dispensationalists 1:22:43.000 --> 1:22:47.960 claim is a ruse that activism is bad if it 1:22:48.000 --> 1:22:55.800 advances any attempt to create equal opportunity, reduce income inequality. 1:22:56.560 --> 1:23:02.360 And dispensationalists vote and they with Texas as one of 1:23:02.360 --> 1:23:07.760 the major bases for dispensationalism, they are a hugely influential 1:23:08.280 --> 1:23:14.040 budding block. Thirty nine percent of Americans have told polsters 1:23:14.479 --> 1:23:17.760 that they believe we're living in the end times. And 1:23:17.800 --> 1:23:19.680 the simple fact is, if you think the world's going 1:23:19.720 --> 1:23:22.240 to end, you're not going to invest much time in 1:23:22.320 --> 1:23:25.320 making the world better, making it a more just place. 1:23:25.400 --> 1:23:28.320 You're not going to try to clean the water, clean 1:23:28.360 --> 1:23:33.720 the air. Half of Evangelical Protestants in the United States 1:23:34.320 --> 1:23:38.880 believe that supporting Israel is absolutely essential to fulfilling Bible prophecy, 1:23:39.560 --> 1:23:44.880 and that group constitutes a third of all adult Texans. 1:23:45.600 --> 1:23:48.639 And they want to love Israel to death because they 1:23:48.680 --> 1:23:53.960 believe that if they push Israel to annex the West Bank, 1:23:54.360 --> 1:23:58.799 to take the most aggressive standards Palestinians, that will provoke 1:23:59.160 --> 1:24:02.360 the of the Antichrist, which will lead to arm again. 1:24:02.880 --> 1:24:05.559 And they're willing to make that sacrifice. They're willing to 1:24:06.240 --> 1:24:08.200 fight for the Second Coming to happen down to the 1:24:08.320 --> 1:24:14.240 last Jewish person. And this is creating instability for the 1:24:14.280 --> 1:24:17.760 world and putting the United States in a very difficult 1:24:17.760 --> 1:24:22.000 place in the world stage, and the chain of events 1:24:22.360 --> 1:24:27.760 leading to our position currently visa the Middle East can 1:24:27.800 --> 1:24:29.240 be drawn back to this state. 1:24:29.400 --> 1:24:29.840 That's right. 1:24:30.040 --> 1:24:32.280 And I think one thing that I really want to 1:24:33.640 --> 1:24:37.840 emphasize that we haven't dived into as much as we 1:24:37.920 --> 1:24:42.200 could have, is that this sort of belief system tends 1:24:42.280 --> 1:24:46.559 towards dehumanization. So if you believe that your opponents are 1:24:46.600 --> 1:24:50.280 in league with the devil, or are Satanic, or are 1:24:50.360 --> 1:24:53.960 doing the bidding of evil, and that you are on 1:24:54.000 --> 1:24:57.880 the side of good unequivocally and you are doing the 1:24:57.920 --> 1:25:04.280 Lord's work, it is e easy to treat your opponents 1:25:05.439 --> 1:25:08.840 as inhuman, less than human, to see them as other 1:25:09.040 --> 1:25:12.439 than someone who has equal rights and equal standing. 1:25:12.720 --> 1:25:15.320 And if you're wondering if it could happen here, it 1:25:15.560 --> 1:25:20.160 meaning fascism in many ways. It's happened in Texas already, 1:25:20.840 --> 1:25:23.760 and we have a large population here. As they wait 1:25:23.800 --> 1:25:26.680 for the end, they're building walls around the lives of 1:25:26.720 --> 1:25:29.160 more than thirty million people who live in this state. 1:25:30.760 --> 1:25:55.280 I'm Stephen MANCHELLI, I'm Michael Phillips. Thank you for listening. 1:25:56.200 --> 1:26:04.960 Oh what indicted by the FBI, my several people I 1:26:05.000 --> 1:26:08.320 don't like it could happen here a podcast about things 1:26:08.360 --> 1:26:11.679 falling apart, and today this week, well for the last 1:26:11.680 --> 1:26:14.759 couple of weeks, the thing that's fallen apart is Tenet Media. 1:26:15.320 --> 1:26:18.200 This is not related to Christopher Nolan, that we can 1:26:18.280 --> 1:26:21.840 prove at this exact moment. It is instead a media 1:26:21.880 --> 1:26:25.240 adventure starring a bunch of assholes that turned out to 1:26:25.280 --> 1:26:27.519 all be an op by the Russian government, and none 1:26:27.520 --> 1:26:29.960 of said assholes claim they knew anything, even though they 1:26:30.000 --> 1:26:32.880 got paid one hundred thousand dollars a video. Anyway, We're 1:26:32.880 --> 1:26:35.160 going to talk about all that and more today, but 1:26:35.240 --> 1:26:38.320 I'm going to bring onto the program now my co hosts, 1:26:38.800 --> 1:26:41.439 Garrison Davis and James Stout. 1:26:41.640 --> 1:26:42.000 Thank you. 1:26:42.240 --> 1:26:44.600 I'm not getting one hundred k per episode here, but 1:26:45.240 --> 1:26:48.040 if I was, I certainly wouldn't tell the government now 1:26:48.120 --> 1:26:50.880 that it was actually a foreign government that's saying me. 1:26:51.000 --> 1:26:52.479 I would keep tweeting about it. 1:26:53.360 --> 1:26:55.559 Fun fact about both of you guys, Before we get 1:26:55.560 --> 1:26:58.240 into this. If you reverse your last names, you sound 1:26:58.320 --> 1:26:59.919 like Confederate era generals. 1:27:00.240 --> 1:27:02.519 Garrison Stout, James Davis like. 1:27:02.560 --> 1:27:03.920 Names Davis s Garrison Stout. 1:27:04.000 --> 1:27:07.040 Yeah, oh yeah, all right, yeah, yeah, that's sod. That 1:27:07.160 --> 1:27:09.519 is our secret backstory. We had to actually switch them 1:27:09.520 --> 1:27:11.880 when we joined cool Zone Media due to a Confederate tie. 1:27:12.280 --> 1:27:15.120 Yeah, and the fact that you're one hundred and ninety 1:27:15.160 --> 1:27:19.240 years old. So Garrison, you want to take us off here? 1:27:20.080 --> 1:27:20.400 Yeah. 1:27:20.439 --> 1:27:24.040 So Tene Media was this kind of small right wings 1:27:24.120 --> 1:27:27.599 startup that hired a whole bunch of more well known 1:27:27.680 --> 1:27:31.080 content creators on the right wing sphere, from like Tim Poole, 1:27:31.200 --> 1:27:35.280 Dave Rubin, Benny Johnson, Lauren Southern. Yeah, people who are 1:27:35.320 --> 1:27:37.679 either just like conservative commentators or you know, in someone 1:27:37.680 --> 1:27:40.000 like Lauren Southern's case has been like an alt right 1:27:40.120 --> 1:27:42.400 kind of white supremacist media figure for quite a while. 1:27:42.960 --> 1:27:45.040 And they put together this little collection of people to 1:27:45.080 --> 1:27:47.720 make like content for Tenants on YouTube channel as well 1:27:47.760 --> 1:27:52.160 as licensing some of their regular content. And this company 1:27:52.479 --> 1:27:57.519 was ostensibly started by another right wing YouTuber named Lauren 1:27:57.600 --> 1:28:01.120 Chen and her husband Liam Donovan. Chen's been like on 1:28:02.040 --> 1:28:04.960 Fox News News Max Daily Wire and was employed at 1:28:05.000 --> 1:28:08.640 the Blaze, where she's no longer employed based on the 1:28:08.960 --> 1:28:13.320 allocations inside this DOJ indictment. So yeah, it was a 1:28:13.360 --> 1:28:17.200 small collection, not super kind of noteworthy. Honestly, in a 1:28:17.200 --> 1:28:19.439 lot of cases, lots of people weren't super familiar with 1:28:19.439 --> 1:28:23.080 tenet media. I know they also hired like Taylor Hanson, 1:28:23.400 --> 1:28:24.800 who was kind of one of the first guys to 1:28:24.880 --> 1:28:28.599 report on grooming LGBTQ stuff like a few years ago. 1:28:29.160 --> 1:28:31.280 That's kind of what was immediately weird about them to 1:28:31.320 --> 1:28:33.559 everyone who pays attention to this stuff is that their 1:28:33.840 --> 1:28:36.519 videos did not get a crazy amount of engagement. They 1:28:36.560 --> 1:28:39.759 were clearly not an established like they came out of nowhere, 1:28:40.360 --> 1:28:42.200 but they had money, the money to pay for people 1:28:42.200 --> 1:28:45.800 who weren't cheap. Timpool, if you don't know, Tim is 1:28:46.000 --> 1:28:50.000 one of the most profitable influencers on the right wing 1:28:50.160 --> 1:28:51.920 chunks of the Internet. He's a guy who kind of 1:28:51.920 --> 1:28:55.240 got his start as a citizen journalist during occupy. Really, 1:28:55.280 --> 1:28:56.559 he's one of these guys. All he does is he 1:28:56.600 --> 1:28:59.639 gets on he reads news articles, he reads the headlines 1:28:59.680 --> 1:29:02.799 of news articles. He talks about how we're all doomed 1:29:03.160 --> 1:29:07.439 to left wing terrorism or whatever, and then he makes 1:29:07.479 --> 1:29:10.800 millions of dollars. He's a frustrating individual to say the least, 1:29:10.960 --> 1:29:14.120 but he doesn't come cheap, and Hansen also doesn't come cheap. 1:29:14.400 --> 1:29:17.720 Dave Rubin is not an inexpensive person to bring onto 1:29:17.800 --> 1:29:19.600 your team. So it was kind of clear from the 1:29:19.600 --> 1:29:22.360 beginning there's a lot of money behind this thing that 1:29:22.439 --> 1:29:25.000 seems to have come out of nowhere. Whose money is it? 1:29:25.360 --> 1:29:27.400 And that is what the federal government's been trying to 1:29:27.439 --> 1:29:31.439 figure out. And we have now a better indication on 1:29:31.520 --> 1:29:34.559 where all of these kind of right wing content firms, 1:29:34.640 --> 1:29:37.280 or at least this one who's employing some very unforunch 1:29:37.280 --> 1:29:40.439 of people, where they are getting some of their money from. 1:29:40.439 --> 1:29:42.920 Because there's a lot of money flying around this space. 1:29:43.160 --> 1:29:45.160 Lots of these guys are obviously filled by like fossil 1:29:45.200 --> 1:29:46.560 fuel billionaires. 1:29:46.640 --> 1:29:46.760 Right. 1:29:46.840 --> 1:29:49.000 You can look at like the early funding for The 1:29:49.080 --> 1:29:51.360 Daily Wired that has a lot of money, but for this, 1:29:51.800 --> 1:29:55.880 for this smaller, kind of lesser known company, how are 1:29:55.880 --> 1:29:58.599 they paying one hundred thousand dollars per episode to these guys? 1:29:59.000 --> 1:30:03.559 And it's also the Daily Wire definitely started inorganically by 1:30:03.600 --> 1:30:05.840 getting a lot of fossil fuel money pumped into it. 1:30:05.880 --> 1:30:07.120 But one thing you have to hand it to them, 1:30:07.160 --> 1:30:10.360 is they built a business that is a functional business, right, 1:30:11.120 --> 1:30:13.880 they are now profitable in their own regard, or at 1:30:13.960 --> 1:30:16.840 least were. There's some evidence their traffic collapsed recently, but 1:30:16.880 --> 1:30:19.479 you saw you saw them have a growth curve that 1:30:19.479 --> 1:30:23.679 looked pretty organic for a media organization, which you didn't 1:30:23.680 --> 1:30:24.880 see with Tenant. 1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:25.519 No no. 1:30:25.960 --> 1:30:29.120 And it seems the only way to actually pay these 1:30:29.160 --> 1:30:32.040 millions and millions of dollars to all these people is 1:30:32.080 --> 1:30:35.320 if you are actually the government of Russia who is 1:30:35.680 --> 1:30:41.240 starting covert operations that's their words, not mine, to influence 1:30:41.360 --> 1:30:44.879 the US election by like both talking about like Ukraine, 1:30:45.439 --> 1:30:48.000 using these mouthpieces, but also just kind of so general division, 1:30:48.040 --> 1:30:50.000 which seems to be kind of the main tactic. And 1:30:51.040 --> 1:30:55.240 Robert elected to actually go through some of this g's 1:30:55.280 --> 1:30:58.880 twenty three page indictment and kind of hopefully we can 1:30:58.920 --> 1:31:00.559 find some of some of the some of the better 1:31:00.800 --> 1:31:03.879 funnier little tidbits here, because there's a lot of interesting 1:31:03.920 --> 1:31:07.559 information about kind of the inter workings of some of 1:31:07.600 --> 1:31:13.280 these media groups and how exactly Timpoole was convinced by 1:31:13.520 --> 1:31:14.720 a Russian agent. 1:31:15.640 --> 1:31:19.480 Yeah, a Russian agent pretending to be three different people. 1:31:19.880 --> 1:31:22.920 Pretending to be some mysterious European billionaire. 1:31:23.680 --> 1:31:26.840 Yeah. So the document starts with some stuff that I 1:31:26.920 --> 1:31:29.519 had been unaware, which is that you know, because Russia 1:31:29.560 --> 1:31:34.320 Today is kind of the first large Russian government affiliated 1:31:34.520 --> 1:31:37.160 media organization that has been like putting up propaganda in 1:31:37.160 --> 1:31:40.960 the United States, and the FBI has been watching them 1:31:41.000 --> 1:31:43.320 like a hawk. And so they quote here from the 1:31:43.400 --> 1:31:46.920 editor in chief of RT after the expanded Russian invasion 1:31:46.960 --> 1:31:50.599 in February twenty twenty two, when he describes Russia Today, 1:31:50.680 --> 1:31:53.920 which has always argued that it's a legitimate news organization, 1:31:54.080 --> 1:31:58.080 as an entire empire of covert projects designed to shape 1:31:58.080 --> 1:32:02.080 public opinion in Western audiences. And one of these covert 1:32:02.080 --> 1:32:05.040 projects it described as the funding of what we now 1:32:05.080 --> 1:32:07.719 know is Tenant Media. Right, it's described in these documents 1:32:07.720 --> 1:32:10.799 because their indictments as a Tennessee based online creation company, 1:32:10.840 --> 1:32:14.040 but it's it can only be referring to Tenant Media. 1:32:14.560 --> 1:32:16.960 As employees have since admitted that, yes, it is for 1:32:17.000 --> 1:32:17.920 sure to Tenant Media. 1:32:18.040 --> 1:32:20.240 Yes, yes, there's no doubt about this. We're not like 1:32:20.320 --> 1:32:22.360 reading into the what the FED said here at all. 1:32:22.640 --> 1:32:22.880 Yeah. 1:32:23.240 --> 1:32:26.200 So they spent over the course of about a year 1:32:26.640 --> 1:32:28.519 ten million dollars. I think it's actually was more like 1:32:28.600 --> 1:32:31.360 nine point six, but ten million dollars basically just buying 1:32:31.400 --> 1:32:32.400 these influencers. 1:32:32.960 --> 1:32:33.800 Oh my god. 1:32:34.800 --> 1:32:38.280 First off, things we could do with ten million dollars yeah, 1:32:38.320 --> 1:32:41.040 oh oh, James, we'd be sailing to me and Maar 1:32:41.160 --> 1:32:45.760 and on a pallet kill rocket launchers. 1:32:46.040 --> 1:32:49.759 The things that their military could do with ten billion dollars. 1:32:50.000 --> 1:32:53.639 That's sending dude to the front with as off plates. Yeah, 1:32:53.720 --> 1:32:57.840 it's anyway. Whatever. So the kind of key detail there 1:32:57.960 --> 1:33:00.479 is how much they were making per one of these 1:33:00.760 --> 1:33:04.879 dog shit videos, which is about one hundred thousand dollars 1:33:04.960 --> 1:33:07.400 per YouTube video. That's what Tim was getting. I think 1:33:07.479 --> 1:33:09.479 Dave Rubin was getting close to just half a million 1:33:09.479 --> 1:33:12.679 a month to do like a weekly video. So when 1:33:12.840 --> 1:33:14.360 that is the kind of money we're. 1:33:14.160 --> 1:33:16.840 Talking about, and Tim was also being paid one hundred 1:33:16.840 --> 1:33:19.800 thousand dollars per weekly video as well. He was making 1:33:19.840 --> 1:33:21.880 one video a week. That was what he decided on 1:33:22.000 --> 1:33:24.760 his contract. So he's breaking in at least four hundred thousand, 1:33:24.800 --> 1:33:27.080 if not five hundred thousand dollars a month. 1:33:27.640 --> 1:33:30.360 Yeah, and then they had signing and download bonuses on 1:33:30.360 --> 1:33:31.040 top of that. 1:33:31.160 --> 1:33:34.360 Which is like even for them is more than you 1:33:34.439 --> 1:33:36.880 could get on YouTube for the kind of traffic that 1:33:36.920 --> 1:33:40.240 they get. That is that is like the top one 1:33:40.320 --> 1:33:43.240 percent of the top one percent of YouTube creators are 1:33:43.280 --> 1:33:46.479 making money like that, and certainly no one with the 1:33:46.560 --> 1:33:48.759 kind of views these tenivities we're getting. So anyway, Garrison, 1:33:48.800 --> 1:33:49.679 you've got a clip to play. 1:33:50.160 --> 1:33:52.760 Yeah, here's here's a here's a clip that's definitely a 1:33:52.800 --> 1:33:56.120 totally genuine opinion. Not impacted by those one hundred thousand 1:33:56.200 --> 1:33:59.640 dollars of Tim Poole talking about Ukraine. 1:33:59.479 --> 1:34:01.800 Trigger war, most annoying man on earth. 1:34:02.280 --> 1:34:06.200 This is psychotic. Ukraine is the enemy of this country. 1:34:06.680 --> 1:34:10.240 Ukraine is our enemy being funded by the Democrats. I 1:34:10.280 --> 1:34:13.160 will stress again one of the greatest enemies of our 1:34:13.280 --> 1:34:17.920 nation right now is Ukraine. They are expanding this war now, 1:34:17.960 --> 1:34:20.799 don't get me wrong. I know you've got criminal elements 1:34:20.800 --> 1:34:22.840 of the US government pushing them and guiding them and 1:34:22.840 --> 1:34:27.320 telling them what to do. Ukraine is now accused a 1:34:27.360 --> 1:34:30.160 German warrant issued for blowing up the nord Stream pipeline 1:34:31.080 --> 1:34:37.320 in triggering this conflict. Ukraine is the greatest threat to 1:34:37.320 --> 1:34:40.559 this nation and to the world. We should rescind all 1:34:40.600 --> 1:34:44.120 funding and financing, pull out all military support, and we 1:34:44.160 --> 1:34:45.800 should apologize to Russia. 1:34:45.840 --> 1:34:49.680 Interesting, I wonder what would compel a man to say that, huh, curious, 1:34:50.160 --> 1:34:50.799 very curious. 1:34:51.120 --> 1:34:54.000 There's no way to know garrison. So, since they publicly 1:34:54.080 --> 1:34:58.080 launched in November of last year, Tenant Media posted almost 1:34:58.120 --> 1:35:01.800 two thousand videos. I got about sixteen million views. And 1:35:01.840 --> 1:35:04.040 sixteen million views is a lot for a YouTube channel, 1:35:04.080 --> 1:35:06.479 but not if you've put out two thousand videos. So again, 1:35:06.520 --> 1:35:08.040 that's what I mean when I say, like, this is 1:35:08.080 --> 1:35:11.280 not the kind of audience that you would get this 1:35:11.439 --> 1:35:15.320 kind of money organically for, right, Like this was obviously 1:35:15.360 --> 1:35:18.920 and I mentioned this because this is obviously suspicious to 1:35:19.040 --> 1:35:22.320 the creators. You cannot be Timpoole is not a smart man, 1:35:22.600 --> 1:35:25.720 but you cannot work for YouTube the way that he 1:35:25.840 --> 1:35:28.360 has and not know that something is fucked up with 1:35:28.400 --> 1:35:29.240 the money. 1:35:29.320 --> 1:35:31.880 Just if you're not a mental arithmetician like myself. That 1:35:32.000 --> 1:35:34.479 is eight thousand views video. Yeah, I made a video 1:35:34.520 --> 1:35:37.000 once about how to use hiking polls, which has around 1:35:37.000 --> 1:35:37.879 that many views. 1:35:38.040 --> 1:35:41.000 I have a video that I fucked up when filming 1:35:41.040 --> 1:35:44.280 another video while I was reviewing products fifteen years ago, 1:35:44.360 --> 1:35:46.840 before anyone knew who I was that has more than. 1:35:46.760 --> 1:35:50.800 Eight years, Like where's all money, Vladimir. 1:35:50.400 --> 1:35:53.240 Yeah, yeah, come on, Vladimir, Like I'll there's a lot 1:35:53.280 --> 1:35:54.759 I'll do for half a million dollars. 1:35:55.160 --> 1:35:57.320 Well, And I think part of this as well is 1:35:57.360 --> 1:36:01.000 not just trying to prop up ten and own news itself. 1:36:01.360 --> 1:36:06.280 It's making these specific content creators lives more comfortable, because 1:36:06.320 --> 1:36:09.080 the better that these guys do, that's all that Russia 1:36:09.120 --> 1:36:12.280 is like interested in, as alleged in this document, right, 1:36:12.280 --> 1:36:14.280 It's that they just want to make sure that these 1:36:14.280 --> 1:36:17.120 guys can still talk about Ukraine as certainly as like 1:36:17.160 --> 1:36:20.400 this like evil and how Russia is like the traditionalist 1:36:20.479 --> 1:36:24.360 Christian empire and right wing resistance to globalist domination. But 1:36:24.640 --> 1:36:27.639 in terms of like just wanting to amplify US domestic 1:36:27.680 --> 1:36:30.799 divisions in order to weaken US opposition to core government 1:36:31.200 --> 1:36:34.800 of Russia's interests in the ongoing war in Ukraine. As 1:36:34.880 --> 1:36:36.600 said in the document, all they need to do is 1:36:36.640 --> 1:36:38.519 just make sure these guys are having a lot of money, 1:36:38.560 --> 1:36:40.120 so like their comfortable tenant doesn't need to be like 1:36:40.120 --> 1:36:43.120 a successful media operation where like they're making more money 1:36:43.160 --> 1:36:46.439 on YouTube than they're paying their influences. And that's not 1:36:46.520 --> 1:36:48.599 the point. The point is just to give these guys 1:36:48.640 --> 1:36:51.160 a lot of money to keep talking the way they're talking. 1:36:51.280 --> 1:36:51.559 Yeah. 1:36:51.720 --> 1:36:53.760 What was also interesting to me, and this comes from 1:36:53.800 --> 1:36:56.759 a Wired article. Wired downloaded as many of these videos 1:36:56.760 --> 1:36:58.800 as they could and then ran them through. This is 1:36:58.800 --> 1:37:01.519 actually one of the un journalistic uses for these large 1:37:01.600 --> 1:37:04.360 language models. They ran them through like one of those 1:37:04.720 --> 1:37:08.599 machine learning algorithms to just kind of look at how 1:37:08.640 --> 1:37:11.800 often different subjects are mentioned, because no human being could 1:37:11.880 --> 1:37:15.320 analyze that many videos with any kind of like speed, right, 1:37:15.880 --> 1:37:19.360 And one thing they found is that Ukraine, which you 1:37:19.400 --> 1:37:22.640 would imagine being the focus of a horrific war that 1:37:22.840 --> 1:37:27.000 is bleeding. Russia's military was mentioned about like a third 1:37:27.160 --> 1:37:31.080 as often as transgender people. The vast majority of the 1:37:31.120 --> 1:37:35.280 content was US culture war stuff right like woke is 1:37:35.439 --> 1:37:38.080 much more of a focus than anything to do directly 1:37:38.600 --> 1:37:42.680 with Russian military operations or Russian like government like what 1:37:42.720 --> 1:37:44.600 you would imagine, right, And the reason for that is 1:37:44.600 --> 1:37:48.000 that they see it as number one, building a sense 1:37:48.000 --> 1:37:52.720 of solidarity between American conservatives and Russia, which is largely imaginary. 1:37:52.760 --> 1:37:54.720 I'll be talking about this in an episode later, but 1:37:54.760 --> 1:37:57.400 like Russia is not the country a lot of conservatives 1:37:57.400 --> 1:37:59.639 in the US think it is. But more to the point, 1:37:59.720 --> 1:38:03.320 it's just sort of stoking division, right, rather than actually 1:38:03.360 --> 1:38:07.000 needing to change American minds on Ukraine in much of 1:38:07.000 --> 1:38:09.160 a concerted way. Like if you kind of keep them 1:38:09.240 --> 1:38:13.280 ginned up and angry about everything the quote unquote left 1:38:13.320 --> 1:38:17.880 is doing, they will be against supporting Ukrainian resistance anyway, right, 1:38:17.960 --> 1:38:21.360 And that's the bet the Russians made, very very astutely, 1:38:21.479 --> 1:38:23.880 and it seems to be paying off for them. One 1:38:23.920 --> 1:38:26.200 of the more interesting facts here is that one of 1:38:26.240 --> 1:38:28.639 the primary contacts, this is one of the people who 1:38:28.640 --> 1:38:31.719 has been indicted, who was working with you know, Pool 1:38:31.760 --> 1:38:35.320 and these other creators, is an employee of Russia today 1:38:35.680 --> 1:38:41.240 with the perfect spy name, Constantine Kalashnikov. Just amazing stuff. 1:38:42.880 --> 1:38:45.800 How is that literally their day? Yeah? How do they 1:38:45.800 --> 1:38:46.720 not just change it? 1:38:46.840 --> 1:38:50.320 We call it a Kalashnikov because the guy's name was Kalashnikov. 1:38:51.160 --> 1:38:54.879 It's just lovely, it's just beautiful. 1:38:54.880 --> 1:38:56.800 It's breathtaking because if you put a character with that 1:38:56.880 --> 1:38:59.040 name in a Bond film, everyone would be like, come on, man, 1:38:59.080 --> 1:39:01.519 it's not nineteen sixty five anymore. What are we doing here? 1:39:01.880 --> 1:39:05.600 But that that's just the person's actual name. It beautiful. 1:39:06.439 --> 1:39:09.879 So they had a couple of fake personas within the company, 1:39:09.920 --> 1:39:13.600 but this was a person who like directly talked to 1:39:13.720 --> 1:39:17.400 the employees of people like Pool, the editors and whatnot 1:39:17.439 --> 1:39:20.639 without disclosing that he worked at Russia. Today now there's 1:39:20.680 --> 1:39:24.080 evidence that people who worked for some of these creators 1:39:24.479 --> 1:39:27.360 in their discords, like editors and whatnot, saw this as 1:39:27.439 --> 1:39:30.680 deeply suspicious. Probably the most interesting came from when we 1:39:30.720 --> 1:39:33.760 now know it was Tucker Carlson posted a video during 1:39:33.760 --> 1:39:35.800 his trip in Moscow like where he was going to 1:39:35.840 --> 1:39:38.559 a Russian grocery store to be like, look, Russia has 1:39:38.600 --> 1:39:42.519 grocery stores. Everything's fine here. His editor in the discord 1:39:42.600 --> 1:39:45.519 was like, this seems like a little much what are 1:39:45.520 --> 1:39:48.880 we doing here basically, and the statement made was along 1:39:48.920 --> 1:39:51.120 the lines of like, you know, this is what the 1:39:51.160 --> 1:39:54.599 people paying us want us to get out right, which 1:39:54.640 --> 1:39:57.680 is clear evidence that people were aware of what they 1:39:57.680 --> 1:39:59.320 were doing to some extent. 1:39:59.439 --> 1:40:02.240 At least among like the tenant media producers, there was 1:40:02.479 --> 1:40:06.640 a growing awareness of what was actually going on. Obviously, 1:40:06.720 --> 1:40:09.280 all of the on air talent still maintains that they 1:40:09.280 --> 1:40:12.599 are the victims of an international conspiracy. 1:40:12.160 --> 1:40:15.440 In a victim pays, I guess, oh. 1:40:15.200 --> 1:40:17.800 My god, and no, I think one of one of 1:40:17.840 --> 1:40:22.920 the funniest parts is definitely this fake European businessman. I 1:40:22.960 --> 1:40:26.880 believe he's referred to as Edward Grengorian. 1:40:27.240 --> 1:40:28.439 Yes, this was very funny, but. 1:40:28.479 --> 1:40:31.400 We'll talk about Edward. Let's let's throw to ads first 1:40:31.439 --> 1:40:44.320 and then we'll get back to this and we're back, Garrison, 1:40:44.400 --> 1:40:45.599 Let's talk about Edward. 1:40:46.439 --> 1:40:46.759 Yeah. 1:40:46.800 --> 1:40:50.360 So in the document they talked about how Kalashnikov, this 1:40:50.439 --> 1:40:54.479 other RT person, as well as Tenants founders worked together 1:40:54.640 --> 1:40:57.920 to deceive commentators one and two, who we believe are 1:40:57.960 --> 1:41:01.639 our Timpool and Dave Rubin. The point was to let 1:41:01.720 --> 1:41:04.880 leverage their existing audiences and license their videos they were 1:41:04.920 --> 1:41:08.839 already making. So together the RT people and the Tenant 1:41:08.920 --> 1:41:14.120 founders tried to trick Pool and who we believe is 1:41:14.200 --> 1:41:18.320 Ruben into thinking that the person providing these one hundred 1:41:18.360 --> 1:41:21.880 thousand dollars per episodes was a European businessman and private 1:41:21.920 --> 1:41:26.919 investor named Edward Gregorian, which is a wonderful a wonderful 1:41:26.920 --> 1:41:29.960 fake name. And this was not real person. This was 1:41:30.000 --> 1:41:32.559 a completely faked person. At some point, I believe Dave 1:41:32.600 --> 1:41:36.879 Ruben or Commentator number one requested that the founder provide 1:41:37.160 --> 1:41:39.280 like a profile or an article. 1:41:39.640 --> 1:41:39.800 Yeah. 1:41:39.880 --> 1:41:41.920 Yeah, it was commentator too that wanted to know more 1:41:41.920 --> 1:41:43.840 about the quote. Would like to know more about the 1:41:43.840 --> 1:41:45.439 company and who he will be working with. 1:41:46.400 --> 1:41:48.759 Yeah, so they asked for like this, like one page 1:41:48.760 --> 1:41:53.000 profile on like who this guy was, And this was 1:41:53.000 --> 1:41:56.760 provided and he was described as an accomplished finance professional 1:41:57.200 --> 1:42:01.240 who had various positions in Brussels and France multi National Bank, 1:42:01.760 --> 1:42:05.120 including the director of private Banking division and wealth management. 1:42:05.640 --> 1:42:09.200 The one page on this guy who is supposedly their investor, 1:42:09.280 --> 1:42:11.439 shows an obvious stock photo of a man on a 1:42:11.479 --> 1:42:14.559 private jet with his face blurred out face blood. Yeah 1:42:16.000 --> 1:42:19.160 that's what's that? Looks real? Yeah, not sketchy at all. 1:42:19.439 --> 1:42:23.040 This is this is an actual guy quote. Founder one 1:42:23.080 --> 1:42:27.120 transmitted the Edward Gregorian profile to Commentator one, who is 1:42:27.120 --> 1:42:28.160 either Pool or Ruben. 1:42:28.400 --> 1:42:29.160 We believe it's Reuben. 1:42:29.240 --> 1:42:31.280 Yeah, I think that one's Ruben because Tim wouldn't have 1:42:31.320 --> 1:42:35.120 asked for more details, Honor. About May twelfth, twenty twenty three, 1:42:35.600 --> 1:42:38.479 Founder one reported to Persona one that Commentator one had 1:42:38.479 --> 1:42:40.920 a problem with the profile we sent over, specifically the 1:42:40.960 --> 1:42:43.800 reference to social justice. I think it may be because 1:42:43.840 --> 1:42:45.920 that's usually a term used by liberals, but we're trying 1:42:45.920 --> 1:42:49.760 to create a conservative network. Founder one suggested that Commentator 1:42:49.800 --> 1:42:52.960 one and Edward could simply speak together to clarify the profile. 1:42:53.400 --> 1:42:57.320 Yes, and I know there was a secure call between 1:42:57.640 --> 1:43:01.800 a Russian ation pretending to be miss Gregorian to Tempoole, 1:43:02.320 --> 1:43:06.680 and allegedly this this other call with Commentator one, who 1:43:06.760 --> 1:43:10.639 we think is Ruben. So there was like conversations between 1:43:10.840 --> 1:43:14.280 like Rubin and Pool with people like further involved in 1:43:14.280 --> 1:43:17.759 the actual like espionage parts of this and the actual 1:43:17.840 --> 1:43:20.960 like you're talking to people affiliated was like Russian spies 1:43:21.960 --> 1:43:23.400 in order to like sell this lie. 1:43:23.640 --> 1:43:25.639 I did find it very funny. Where did you read 1:43:25.680 --> 1:43:27.720 the section where they sort of did a forensic analysis 1:43:27.760 --> 1:43:29.880 of the three persona's email accounts. 1:43:30.560 --> 1:43:32.320 No, I'm not fun up in doing it yet. 1:43:32.400 --> 1:43:35.320 So they had three different personas, so all access from 1:43:35.360 --> 1:43:38.439 the same IP address and had different were presenting a 1:43:38.520 --> 1:43:42.240 three different individuals, right with three different email accounts. Obviously, 1:43:42.240 --> 1:43:44.160 the DOJ has been able to get access to those 1:43:44.200 --> 1:43:47.880 email accounts, and they found that the people using those 1:43:47.920 --> 1:43:50.920 email accounts made mistakes in signing them. So one was 1:43:50.960 --> 1:43:54.360 supposed to come from PERSONA three, but they mistakenly signed 1:43:54.360 --> 1:43:59.439 it Edward Gregorian. And another time PERSONA one sent a 1:43:59.479 --> 1:44:01.680 draft of email to person to two, which percent to 1:44:01.720 --> 1:44:03.640 two then coll beet and pasted into an email like 1:44:03.680 --> 1:44:07.400 the object was extremely poor. Yeah, it would seem, and 1:44:07.439 --> 1:44:10.040 it didn't set anyone off to kind. 1:44:09.880 --> 1:44:12.280 Of make that point in terms of like what's happening 1:44:12.280 --> 1:44:14.040 to these guys right now. What they've been indicted for 1:44:14.240 --> 1:44:18.479 is violations of the Foreign Agent Registration Act. Like, if 1:44:18.479 --> 1:44:20.559 you are acting as the agent of a foreign government, 1:44:20.600 --> 1:44:22.920 you have to register in the United States. You have 1:44:22.960 --> 1:44:26.120 a freedom of speech, but you don't have freedom to 1:44:26.200 --> 1:44:31.240 create propaganda for another government and pretend that you're not right. Yeah, 1:44:31.280 --> 1:44:33.120 and so you know, obviously one of the things the 1:44:33.120 --> 1:44:35.559 Feds needed to indict them is evidence that they knew, 1:44:35.600 --> 1:44:38.800 specifically they were being employed by the Russian government, Right 1:44:38.840 --> 1:44:41.280 that like the Russians hadn't somehow snuck money to the 1:44:41.280 --> 1:44:45.519 people who founded Tenant Media, Right. And so at one 1:44:45.560 --> 1:44:49.000 point Founder two gets on the Investor Discord channel to 1:44:49.120 --> 1:44:53.080 submit one of the influencers, I think it's Ruben's invoices 1:44:53.120 --> 1:44:56.520 to PERSONA one and press for payment of those invoices 1:44:57.160 --> 1:44:59.720 on September eleventh, twenty twenty three, never forget at a 1:44:59.720 --> 1:45:02.640 post roximately eight oh seven pm Central time, Founder two 1:45:02.720 --> 1:45:05.320 wrote in that Discord channel. Today marks two weeks since 1:45:05.360 --> 1:45:07.720 I submitted the invoice for August. Any idea for the 1:45:07.760 --> 1:45:10.479 delay We are signing the large contracts. We need to 1:45:10.479 --> 1:45:12.160 be certain we will get the funding to pay these 1:45:12.200 --> 1:45:14.960 people while waiting for a response, they searched for the 1:45:15.000 --> 1:45:24.719 current time in Moscow. So yes, unbelievable OPSEC like giving 1:45:24.720 --> 1:45:26.799 the government absolute knowledge of intent. 1:45:27.479 --> 1:45:31.160 I mean similarly earlier on in the document quote in 1:45:31.200 --> 1:45:33.760 their private respondence. While working directly for RT pursue want 1:45:33.840 --> 1:45:36.240 to founder one's written contract, Founder one and Founder two 1:45:36.280 --> 1:45:39.839 regularly referred to their sponsor as the Russians, and for example, 1:45:40.120 --> 1:45:43.799 Honor about May twelfth, twenty twenty one, Founder two message 1:45:43.800 --> 1:45:46.919 Founder one on Discord, quote, so we're billing the Russians 1:45:47.040 --> 1:45:51.000 from the corporation, right, Honor about May twenty second, Founder 1:45:51.040 --> 1:45:54.280 one message Founder two on Discord. Also the Russians paid, 1:45:54.479 --> 1:45:56.679 so we're good to build them for the second month. 1:45:56.720 --> 1:46:01.559 I guess nailed it, Honor about Founder one, message Founder 1:46:01.560 --> 1:46:04.919 two on Discord. Also, I say we build the Russians 1:46:04.920 --> 1:46:08.920 for the last month. Once we're done the extrafens. 1:46:08.479 --> 1:46:10.120 I wonder if they knew they were working for the 1:46:10.160 --> 1:46:10.960 Russian government. 1:46:11.560 --> 1:46:13.360 There's a lot more that's just like this. 1:46:14.000 --> 1:46:16.600 They constantly referred to the source of their income, at 1:46:16.680 --> 1:46:19.560 least to each other as quote unquote the Russians, and 1:46:19.840 --> 1:46:22.800 then in like outreach to like talent, which is, you know, 1:46:22.840 --> 1:46:26.000 a generous word to refer to Timpoole and others, they 1:46:26.000 --> 1:46:28.040 were a little bit more vague, but they certainly made 1:46:28.120 --> 1:46:31.440 kind of coy references to it in their producer discord beautiful. 1:46:32.320 --> 1:46:36.640 Well, yeah, so, I mean the big question here with 1:46:36.760 --> 1:46:39.799 all of this is, like, did any of these major 1:46:40.120 --> 1:46:43.320 right wing media figures who have like they got hired 1:46:43.360 --> 1:46:45.320 in part because they were already doing the job the 1:46:45.360 --> 1:46:48.280 Russians wanted them doing, you know, building up this kind 1:46:48.360 --> 1:46:51.360 of hatred that exists on the right over the idea 1:46:51.520 --> 1:46:56.320 of funding Ukraine and Ukrainian resistance to the Russian war machine. 1:46:56.360 --> 1:46:58.280 Like all of that kind of stuff is like why 1:46:58.640 --> 1:47:00.760 these people got brought on anyway. Tim Poole has just 1:47:00.840 --> 1:47:03.759 kind of been one of the most reflexively anti Ukraine 1:47:03.840 --> 1:47:08.120 voices and conservative media, and Ruben is very effective at 1:47:08.160 --> 1:47:11.240 getting Americans to hate other Americans, like he's one of 1:47:11.240 --> 1:47:14.160 the big kind of anti trans culture warriors out there. 1:47:14.560 --> 1:47:17.920 Did O Hanson Like that's why they wanted these guys 1:47:18.240 --> 1:47:20.800 like they wanted to encourage them basically to keep it up. 1:47:20.840 --> 1:47:23.360 And you know, the question then is what did these 1:47:23.400 --> 1:47:25.880 guys know and when did they know it? And the 1:47:25.920 --> 1:47:29.040 bigger question because I have my suspicions, and my suspicions 1:47:29.080 --> 1:47:34.400 are a lot and immediately, but none of that is 1:47:34.400 --> 1:47:38.600 in this indictment obviously. And the big question then is 1:47:38.600 --> 1:47:41.479 is the federal government going to attempt to prove anything 1:47:41.640 --> 1:47:44.040 like do they want to actually go after these guys? 1:47:44.200 --> 1:47:47.200 And I don't know. My guess is not because there 1:47:47.320 --> 1:47:50.160 very rarely are consequences for these people. But I'm curious 1:47:50.160 --> 1:47:51.040 as to what y'all think. 1:47:51.560 --> 1:47:53.080 No, it seems not. 1:47:53.240 --> 1:47:55.800 I'm both both Pool and I think three others have 1:47:55.880 --> 1:47:57.840 made statements saying that they've been contacted by the FBI 1:47:57.880 --> 1:48:01.000 as a potential victim of a crime vibe and that 1:48:01.040 --> 1:48:04.200 they will be happy to assist the FBI investigating this matter. 1:48:04.840 --> 1:48:09.040 Now, that doesn't mean the FBI isn't necessarily looking into them, 1:48:09.040 --> 1:48:11.720 because that is all which the FBI would use if 1:48:11.760 --> 1:48:14.200 they suspected them. But yeah, my guess is that they 1:48:14.320 --> 1:48:14.920 lawyered up. 1:48:15.560 --> 1:48:18.920 Absolutely. It was funny both in there. In Betty Johnson's 1:48:18.920 --> 1:48:22.839 and Timpole's immediate statements, they call this elk DOJ indictment, 1:48:23.479 --> 1:48:25.360 which is not true. It was not leaked, it was 1:48:25.400 --> 1:48:26.200 just unsealed. 1:48:26.400 --> 1:48:28.080 Yeah, they just arrested people. 1:48:28.160 --> 1:48:29.880 Yeah, I'm very sure there's a press release. 1:48:30.479 --> 1:48:34.000 Like Also, one of the final posts from Tenant Media, 1:48:34.320 --> 1:48:36.800 I was talking about how this woman named Lauren's son 1:48:36.880 --> 1:48:38.839 was charged with acting as an agent of the Chinese 1:48:38.880 --> 1:48:42.240 Communist Party. Quote he or she is talking about DEI? 1:48:42.439 --> 1:48:44.679 Why would the Chinese government want to push a DEI 1:48:44.720 --> 1:48:45.400 in America? 1:48:45.720 --> 1:48:46.840 Oh? Yeah, remember this? 1:48:47.760 --> 1:48:50.080 This is This is I think one of one of 1:48:50.120 --> 1:48:53.400 their final Twitter posts before their I can't got taken down. 1:48:53.520 --> 1:48:54.240 Yeah beautiful. 1:48:54.280 --> 1:48:56.400 Their Rumba account is still live and kicking. 1:48:56.640 --> 1:48:58.120 Yeah. Oh thank goodness that out. 1:48:58.680 --> 1:49:01.800 Also, could we talk about their graphic design just for 1:49:01.800 --> 1:49:05.559 a moment, because it is dog shit? Yeah, Tenant mediums 1:49:06.000 --> 1:49:08.080 Tenant Yeah, like, have you I don't know, have you 1:49:08.400 --> 1:49:10.000 have you been on their rumble account? Garrison? 1:49:10.160 --> 1:49:12.280 You know, I can't I can't say I have been 1:49:12.520 --> 1:49:15.040 on their Rumble account as of as of recent. 1:49:14.960 --> 1:49:17.280 The last time I looked at Rumble it was their 1:49:17.320 --> 1:49:19.960 booth at the rnc OW. 1:49:20.200 --> 1:49:23.840 Let me tell you they're back, and genuinely some of 1:49:23.840 --> 1:49:28.080 the most like deranged. It's just it's extremely busy, it's 1:49:28.200 --> 1:49:31.000 very nineties like. It's a lot of bright colors. 1:49:31.280 --> 1:49:31.559 I mean. 1:49:31.720 --> 1:49:35.000 The clearest indication to me that this was absolutely a 1:49:35.040 --> 1:49:38.719 Russian op is that the company described itself as quote 1:49:38.880 --> 1:49:42.840 a network of heterodox commentators that focus on Western political 1:49:42.880 --> 1:49:44.160 and cultural issues. 1:49:44.200 --> 1:49:46.720 Definitely Russians. Definitely Russians. 1:49:47.040 --> 1:49:49.960 You're like, oh, I wonder who wrote that? Who would 1:49:49.960 --> 1:49:51.120 ever described themselves? 1:49:51.120 --> 1:49:53.720 Tim Poole had never even seen the word head of 1:49:53.760 --> 1:49:54.719 redox before. 1:49:54.920 --> 1:49:57.759 Yeah, it's crazy, It's it's wild. 1:49:58.000 --> 1:50:00.439 Yeah, they put multipolar into a theosauric and that's what 1:50:00.479 --> 1:50:01.080 they came up with. 1:50:01.280 --> 1:50:01.960 It's crazy. 1:50:02.439 --> 1:50:04.519 It is interesting. One of the things in this indictment 1:50:04.520 --> 1:50:06.880 that I did find kind of worth talking about is 1:50:06.920 --> 1:50:11.160 that it specifically notes that folks at Russia today when 1:50:11.200 --> 1:50:13.919 they were because they were largely deplatformed after the expanded 1:50:13.960 --> 1:50:17.439 Russian invasion in twenty twenty two early twenty twenty two 1:50:17.920 --> 1:50:20.679 and the indictment quotes the editor in chief of Russia 1:50:20.720 --> 1:50:22.880 Today being like, but it's fine because we were able 1:50:22.880 --> 1:50:25.720 to rebuild our following on Twitter. So I don't know 1:50:25.720 --> 1:50:27.800 if you, just in case you had any questions about 1:50:27.840 --> 1:50:32.080 like what Elon Musk's reforms at Twitter have accomplished, one 1:50:32.080 --> 1:50:34.479 of them is that we should probably roll to ads again. 1:50:34.520 --> 1:50:37.400 And then, Garrison, you had a very fun document you 1:50:37.439 --> 1:50:38.240 wanted to take us. 1:50:38.120 --> 1:50:40.439 Through, yes to kind of talk about why they might 1:50:40.479 --> 1:50:42.479 be doing some of this. There was one other document 1:50:42.520 --> 1:50:45.320 that was unsealed that kind of sheds a light on 1:50:45.600 --> 1:50:49.480 Russia's exact focus on influencing US politics. 1:50:49.720 --> 1:50:53.560 Well, that's great, speaking of influencing US politics. Our advertisers 1:50:53.800 --> 1:51:06.599 probably don't. And we're back. 1:51:07.360 --> 1:51:12.400 There's another document called Exhibit nine to A, which is 1:51:12.800 --> 1:51:18.400 originally in Russian and this translated Coffee is provided in 1:51:18.439 --> 1:51:21.200 this PDF. And this appears to be some kind of 1:51:21.400 --> 1:51:26.640 instructional manual for why exactly people are going about this, 1:51:26.960 --> 1:51:30.360 why exactly is Tim Poole and all these others getting 1:51:30.400 --> 1:51:32.720 paid to talk about what they talk about. And then 1:51:32.760 --> 1:51:36.280 it also kind of explains like tactics and like how 1:51:36.280 --> 1:51:38.840 to actually go about it. So the first bit of 1:51:38.920 --> 1:51:41.479 this of this document, they just are talking about like 1:51:41.560 --> 1:51:45.680 the US two party system, which is really funny, and 1:51:45.680 --> 1:51:48.719 they primarily explain the two party system's differences as being 1:51:48.800 --> 1:51:51.559 like the way that they affect race, that the US 1:51:51.600 --> 1:51:55.719 Political Party B or Democratic Party includes people of color 1:51:55.720 --> 1:51:59.080 and quote unquote supporters of affirmative action and reverse discrimination, 1:51:59.600 --> 1:52:01.799 i e. Infringement on the rights of the white population 1:52:01.840 --> 1:52:05.479 of the United States. And then meanwhile, the Republican Party 1:52:05.600 --> 1:52:09.240 are victims of discrimination by people of color unquote. So 1:52:09.880 --> 1:52:11.960 that's how they kind of frame the US two party 1:52:12.000 --> 1:52:14.880 system is that there's these poor white people being oppressed 1:52:14.920 --> 1:52:18.040 by wokeism. They end this little introduction on the two 1:52:18.040 --> 1:52:20.920 party system by saying, quote, a key characteristic of the 1:52:20.920 --> 1:52:25.240 American media is it skew towards the Democratic Party's influence. 1:52:25.640 --> 1:52:28.640 While society is split between supporters of the new globalist 1:52:28.640 --> 1:52:32.640 socialism and traditional values, the media is democrat by over 1:52:32.760 --> 1:52:35.759 seventy five percent. Situation for the Republicans is made complicated 1:52:35.760 --> 1:52:39.880 by the censorship on social media and Democrats oriented new media. 1:52:40.439 --> 1:52:42.400 So some kind of weird phrasing there because it is 1:52:42.439 --> 1:52:46.560 being translated from Russian. But they're talking about how liberalism 1:52:46.680 --> 1:52:50.759 is inherently biased in media, and that's something that's promoted 1:52:50.840 --> 1:52:54.639 while being racist and being a Republican is something that 1:52:55.080 --> 1:52:57.280 is harder to get paid for by big media. 1:52:57.000 --> 1:52:57.599 To talk about. 1:52:58.040 --> 1:53:01.280 And that's why they have this campaign, which they title 1:53:01.600 --> 1:53:05.760 gorilla media campaign in the United States. They justify this 1:53:05.840 --> 1:53:09.680 by saying that there is no pro Russian and or 1:53:09.800 --> 1:53:15.719 putin mainstream politicians or succinctly large numbers of influencers and voters, 1:53:16.080 --> 1:53:18.160 and this is one of the things they're trying to do. 1:53:18.600 --> 1:53:22.160 Another quote is that Americans are quote dissatisfied by the 1:53:22.200 --> 1:53:25.679 dramatic decline and center of living and large expenditures of 1:53:25.680 --> 1:53:29.360 offensive policy in the United States, in Europe and Ukraine. 1:53:29.439 --> 1:53:31.639 They are afraid of losing the American way of life 1:53:31.640 --> 1:53:34.160 in the American dream. It is these sentiments that should 1:53:34.160 --> 1:53:37.519 be exploited in the course of an information campaign in 1:53:37.560 --> 1:53:41.479 the United States. Smart The campaign topics used in their 1:53:41.479 --> 1:53:46.240 Gorilla Media campaign are included here. First ones encroaching universal poverty. 1:53:46.560 --> 1:53:49.800 Number two is the risk of job loss for white Americans, 1:53:49.920 --> 1:53:55.000 privileges for people of color, perverts and disabled, constant lies 1:53:55.080 --> 1:53:58.519 of the Democratic Party administration. They threat of crime coming 1:53:58.520 --> 1:54:02.439 from people of color, and immigrants, including new immigrants from Ukraine. 1:54:02.840 --> 1:54:06.320 Overspending on foreign policy at the expense of interests of 1:54:06.360 --> 1:54:10.000 white US citizens, constant lies to the voters by the 1:54:10.000 --> 1:54:14.400 Democrats in power. Last, but not least, America is suffering 1:54:14.720 --> 1:54:18.479 a defeat despite Liberals' efforts. We are being drawn into 1:54:18.520 --> 1:54:22.120 the water. Our guys will die in Ukraine. The target 1:54:22.160 --> 1:54:25.920 audience of their campaign is listed as Republican voters, Donald 1:54:26.000 --> 1:54:31.080 Trump supporters, supporters of quote traditional family values, white Americans 1:54:31.160 --> 1:54:33.480 representing the lower and middle class. 1:54:33.960 --> 1:54:37.360 Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things. It's frustrating 1:54:37.480 --> 1:54:40.800 that it is working. Yeah, to be quite frank, it's 1:54:40.840 --> 1:54:47.880 exactly what the Russiagate conspiracy theorists have been saying for years. Unfortunately, Yeah, unfortunately, 1:54:48.000 --> 1:54:49.880 and like a shitload of people on the left have 1:54:49.960 --> 1:54:52.520 just been mocking them endlessly, in part because they've bought 1:54:52.560 --> 1:54:53.720 a lot of this propaganda. 1:54:54.080 --> 1:54:55.680 And this is certainly different from the way they were 1:54:55.680 --> 1:54:58.120 going about it in twenty sixteen, right, And this isn't 1:54:58.360 --> 1:55:01.760 absolutely Yeah, this is the same like Facebook stuff they're doing, 1:55:01.880 --> 1:55:04.600 although Tenant did did have Facebook accounts. These are like 1:55:04.720 --> 1:55:07.320 weaponizing these people that have gotten big on YouTube and 1:55:07.360 --> 1:55:10.080 other platforms for talking, but the same type of things 1:55:10.080 --> 1:55:12.160 that Russia kind of wants them to talk about, and 1:55:12.200 --> 1:55:14.000 it's just making sure that they have the ability to 1:55:14.040 --> 1:55:17.720 do so. Kind of Lastly, in this information doc they 1:55:17.760 --> 1:55:20.400 talk about kind of like where you can spread this disinformation. 1:55:20.840 --> 1:55:23.560 It says here quote on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. We 1:55:23.640 --> 1:55:26.960 need to create multiple perishable accounts, primarily for the work 1:55:27.040 --> 1:55:30.240 with comments. Websites should serve as the sources of information 1:55:30.360 --> 1:55:33.840 for dissemination and for video content YouTube accounts with a 1:55:33.840 --> 1:55:37.800 relatively small number of subscribers and commentators unquote. The list 1:55:37.920 --> 1:55:41.720 of information products can be disseminated includes texts of posts, 1:55:41.800 --> 1:55:46.320 comments on social media, memes including charactures and collages, and 1:55:46.600 --> 1:55:50.040 video content including news stories in the Fox News style. 1:55:50.880 --> 1:55:54.960 They then propose creating a quote unquote project office to 1:55:55.280 --> 1:55:59.600 run us this style of like media campaign. This consists 1:55:59.600 --> 1:56:03.480 of three segments monitoring US media and social media accounts 1:56:03.840 --> 1:56:07.720 of Republican politicians. A text factor with a minimum of 1:56:07.960 --> 1:56:12.680 five to four main topic based recommendations, including about ten 1:56:12.760 --> 1:56:16.560 basic posts on social media and forty to sixty comments, 1:56:16.920 --> 1:56:19.720 and then managing an editorial office with a daily output 1:56:19.760 --> 1:56:22.720 of three to four pictures and memes and a video 1:56:22.800 --> 1:56:25.840 editorial office with a daily output of three to four 1:56:25.920 --> 1:56:27.200 videos per day. 1:56:27.800 --> 1:56:28.200 Quote. 1:56:28.240 --> 1:56:29.920 In order for this work to be effective, you need 1:56:29.960 --> 1:56:33.400 to use a minimum of fake news and a maximum 1:56:33.440 --> 1:56:35.000 of realistic information. 1:56:35.360 --> 1:56:36.000 At the same time. 1:56:36.000 --> 1:56:39.200 You should continuously repeat that this is what's really happening, 1:56:39.240 --> 1:56:41.360 but the official media will never tell you about it 1:56:41.480 --> 1:56:42.919 or show it to you unquote. 1:56:43.960 --> 1:56:47.400 So I mean, like, part of what's frustrating about this 1:56:47.480 --> 1:56:50.640 number one is just like they clearly have watched Alex Jones, 1:56:50.760 --> 1:56:53.560 and like, I've learned a great deal from how he's 1:56:53.640 --> 1:56:56.720 done this, which, unfortunately something Alex used to claim about 1:56:56.760 --> 1:57:00.320 putin that fuck maybe he was right. But the bigger, 1:57:00.400 --> 1:57:02.440 more frustrating point to me is that like, oh, they 1:57:02.440 --> 1:57:04.360 didn't need to do any of this at all, Like 1:57:04.440 --> 1:57:08.960 this was all working just fine without them directly getting 1:57:08.960 --> 1:57:11.480 involved this way, I kind of am intro. I think 1:57:11.480 --> 1:57:13.520 it's probably just a reaction to the fact that they 1:57:13.560 --> 1:57:16.760 had a lot of their more traditional stuff get deplatformed 1:57:16.840 --> 1:57:20.160 after February twenty twenty two. Yeah, but like this was 1:57:20.200 --> 1:57:23.240 all stuff the Right was doing organically in their media 1:57:23.280 --> 1:57:25.240 without Russian money. They didn't need this. 1:57:26.040 --> 1:57:27.680 They certainly are trying to kind of rebuild some of 1:57:27.720 --> 1:57:32.360 their like directability to influence after like RT got deplatformed. 1:57:32.680 --> 1:57:34.360 The other part that's interesting to me is because like 1:57:34.400 --> 1:57:36.840 this indictment focuses on like Tenet Media as being kind 1:57:36.880 --> 1:57:39.880 of one of these video editorial offices with a daily 1:57:39.920 --> 1:57:42.080 output of three to four videos a day. 1:57:42.160 --> 1:57:42.440 Like that. 1:57:42.440 --> 1:57:44.600 That's what this That's what this kind of guide it describes, 1:57:44.720 --> 1:57:47.240 that's what Tenant is. This evidence Stock also talks about 1:57:47.240 --> 1:57:50.360 how like they're also just like faking engagement, getting like 1:57:50.440 --> 1:57:54.560 sixty comments per day on various social media posts on 1:57:54.600 --> 1:57:57.640 political topics. So that also like points towards like a 1:57:57.640 --> 1:58:00.600 lot of people like driving like discussions and trying to 1:58:00.640 --> 1:58:05.040 like increase the actual visibility and engagement is being boosted 1:58:05.080 --> 1:58:09.560 by this like non authentic interference. A lot of videos 1:58:09.680 --> 1:58:11.720 will go viral not just because they had a lot 1:58:11.760 --> 1:58:13.880 of people watch them initially. It's because they have a 1:58:13.920 --> 1:58:16.520 lot of engagement in like the comments, and that's what's 1:58:16.520 --> 1:58:18.520 going to push something to actually show up more people's feets. 1:58:18.560 --> 1:58:20.800 Like that is how Twitter currently works. There's a degree 1:58:20.800 --> 1:58:23.520 to which that's how things work on YouTube. So it's 1:58:23.520 --> 1:58:27.040 also just trying to try to like engineer virality by 1:58:27.400 --> 1:58:31.120 faking a certain amount of engagement. Yeah, there's also like 1:58:31.200 --> 1:58:34.760 that that degree of like interference beyond just actually, you know, 1:58:34.800 --> 1:58:37.880 paying for Tim Poole to talk about Ukraine and talk 1:58:37.920 --> 1:58:40.080 about how gay people are evil once a week. 1:58:40.440 --> 1:58:41.560 Yeah, I don't know. 1:58:41.840 --> 1:58:43.720 I think that's probably all we've got to say about 1:58:43.720 --> 1:58:47.600 this for right now. This is not the most surprising 1:58:47.680 --> 1:58:50.000 news in the world. It is good that it's embarrassing 1:58:50.120 --> 1:58:51.640 to some of these guys. I don't know that. I 1:58:51.640 --> 1:58:53.760 think it's actually going to hurt their listenership at all. 1:58:53.880 --> 1:58:55.680 The people who listen to them don't really care. 1:58:56.160 --> 1:58:57.720 Yeah, they'll lie out of it. 1:58:58.280 --> 1:59:00.680 Yeah, they'll find some way to and to make themselves 1:59:00.720 --> 1:59:02.840 the victim out of it. They will not have any 1:59:02.880 --> 1:59:07.280 reflection that there was a whole Russian operation to identify 1:59:07.400 --> 1:59:10.920 like influencers, to scout for that would serve Russia's purposes. 1:59:10.920 --> 1:59:13.800 That they will never reflect on why they specifically were 1:59:13.840 --> 1:59:17.840 scouted for. No, Yeah, they will never reflect that. The 1:59:17.880 --> 1:59:21.360 only bit of like, the only bit of hesitation that 1:59:21.400 --> 1:59:24.000 they had to take this money was that the profile 1:59:24.040 --> 1:59:26.480 for the think businessman mentioned to Social Justice that was 1:59:26.520 --> 1:59:29.000 the only thing that they like protested that's the only 1:59:29.040 --> 1:59:31.360 thing that they actually wanted to look further into was 1:59:31.400 --> 1:59:33.440 the fact that he listed social justice is something he 1:59:33.480 --> 1:59:36.760 cares about, and not the fact that he just doesn't 1:59:36.760 --> 1:59:37.320 exist at all. 1:59:37.440 --> 1:59:38.760 This is a completely fake person. 1:59:39.040 --> 1:59:41.320 They were able to flag social justice but not flag 1:59:41.480 --> 1:59:43.520 that he just did not existed. None of this will 1:59:43.560 --> 1:59:46.320 cause any kind of recollection because these guys don't care. 1:59:46.400 --> 1:59:48.120 Like the reason why they say what they say is 1:59:48.160 --> 1:59:51.080 because they can make five hundred thousand dollars a month 1:59:51.240 --> 1:59:53.880 extra saying it, So imagine how much money they're already making. 1:59:54.360 --> 1:59:57.480 Like that explains why they're doing what they're doing. Like 1:59:57.600 --> 2:00:00.000 they don't care what they say anymore. They make such 2:00:00.040 --> 2:00:02.440 a ridiculous amount of money that it doesn't matter. 2:00:03.240 --> 2:00:06.040 Yeah, and that's what it's always been about. Like they 2:00:06.040 --> 2:00:07.520 have never believed in anything. 2:00:07.680 --> 2:00:11.200 Yeah, they don't need to like reflect on any of 2:00:11.240 --> 2:00:13.320 this because they're still making tons of money. They're making 2:00:13.320 --> 2:00:15.120 slightly less than they used to now that Russia's not 2:00:15.120 --> 2:00:17.800 paying them, but they are still making tons Especially like 2:00:18.000 --> 2:00:20.080 if this is what they thought like the going price was, 2:00:20.120 --> 2:00:22.720 like they suggested these amounts, like they this is like 2:00:22.840 --> 2:00:25.360 the regular price for them, and that kind of points 2:00:25.360 --> 2:00:27.600 towards how much money is flying around this right wing 2:00:27.640 --> 2:00:28.560 medio ecosystem. 2:00:28.840 --> 2:00:31.160 Yep, great, good to stuff. 2:00:31.320 --> 2:00:34.080 Yeah, the last couple of videos were focusing on this 2:00:34.200 --> 2:00:40.760 ridiculous lie that migrant's taken over an apartment complex in Colorado, 2:00:40.960 --> 2:00:42.680 Like all this shit that just isn't true that they've 2:00:42.680 --> 2:00:45.040 been able to make true. I don't know, it's so frustrating. 2:00:45.280 --> 2:00:49.080 I find it's so frustrating. Also, how like Pool has 2:00:49.080 --> 2:00:50.840 been able to run this line of like the media 2:00:50.880 --> 2:00:54.560 won't tell you this because there are things that legitimately 2:00:54.760 --> 2:00:59.880 our neoliberal establishment media completely ignores and like that leave 2:01:00.280 --> 2:01:03.680 the door open for this kind of shit, and as 2:01:03.720 --> 2:01:05.960 a result, people can fill that space with lies, as 2:01:05.960 --> 2:01:06.640 we're seeing here. 2:01:07.520 --> 2:01:07.800 Yeah. 2:01:07.840 --> 2:01:11.480 Well, so the next time you get contacted by a 2:01:11.520 --> 2:01:15.040 shady man on WhatsApp to pay you five hundred thousand 2:01:15.080 --> 2:01:17.920 dollars about talking about how gay people are evil, you 2:01:18.000 --> 2:01:19.840 might want to check to see if he's actually a 2:01:19.920 --> 2:01:21.880 Russian agent first. You just you might want to do 2:01:22.080 --> 2:01:24.880 a little a little bit of work. Yeah, they have 2:01:24.960 --> 2:01:26.560 to tell you. It's like cops. You just ask him that. 2:01:26.600 --> 2:01:28.000 They have to tell you, you know what, Just send 2:01:28.040 --> 2:01:31.360 him my way. That's exciting. New content news for you guys. 2:01:31.560 --> 2:01:33.800 I would not get paid by Russia to lie. I 2:01:33.880 --> 2:01:36.360 might get paid by like Sweden, you know, to like 2:01:36.600 --> 2:01:38.080 advance Swedish interests. 2:01:38.120 --> 2:01:41.760 Maybe there's a number of most countries I would lie 2:01:41.800 --> 2:01:44.840 for besides that aren't rush. Yeah, would I would lie 2:01:44.880 --> 2:01:46.760 for like Japan? 2:01:47.000 --> 2:01:50.960 Probably No, that could get dark actually never won. Yeah, yeah, 2:01:50.960 --> 2:01:51.920 I leave that one out. Brother. 2:01:52.120 --> 2:01:54.600 Sweden, Sweden's perfect, No, it's just scarce. So I just 2:01:54.640 --> 2:01:57.120 think you're underestimating the kind of shit Sweden gets up to. 2:01:57.320 --> 2:01:59.960 Oh no, they're certainly evil. They're certainly evil. 2:02:00.520 --> 2:02:02.800 But in terms of like a very like milk toast 2:02:02.840 --> 2:02:05.560 country to get paid to increase their foreign interest, then 2:02:05.720 --> 2:02:07.920 I think Sweden's about as good as you're gonna get. Like, 2:02:07.920 --> 2:02:10.960 come on, like hungry, come on, come on Switzerland. 2:02:11.040 --> 2:02:14.160 You know all the Switzerland you would you would quickly 2:02:14.200 --> 2:02:16.800 get implicated. But they could pay. 2:02:16.360 --> 2:02:18.320 All the financial all the financial price. 2:02:19.200 --> 2:02:22.960 Yeah, Robert and I received material benefits from the Burmese PDF. 2:02:23.000 --> 2:02:25.080 We both had a nice lunch from them, and that 2:02:25.120 --> 2:02:27.280 has been what we've done all our coverage. It's time 2:02:27.320 --> 2:02:28.320 for us to come clean now. 2:02:28.440 --> 2:02:31.000 We did, although you did get very sick afterwards. 2:02:31.240 --> 2:02:34.240 So deceivably sick and you lucked me out of the toilet. 2:02:34.360 --> 2:02:40.600 So yeah, that was pretty funny. 2:02:42.040 --> 2:02:46.760 Oh what a time anyway, Rip Tenant Media, you were 2:02:46.800 --> 2:02:47.640 a bake one. 2:02:48.040 --> 2:03:15.640 We'll be back tomorrow. Ah, what's not doing great? My democracy? 2:03:15.720 --> 2:03:18.320 Although better than a couple of months ago. Maybe if 2:03:18.320 --> 2:03:21.840 we're comparing this debate to the last debate, I think 2:03:22.360 --> 2:03:26.200 the short answer everyone we'll agree with is better debate. 2:03:26.840 --> 2:03:27.240 My god. 2:03:28.080 --> 2:03:31.040 I'm Robert Evans with me tonight for you know. A 2:03:31.120 --> 2:03:34.600 quick reaction to everything that went on in case you 2:03:34.600 --> 2:03:37.560 don't want to sit through it yourself is Garrison Davis 2:03:37.600 --> 2:03:39.480 and Sophie Lichdermann. 2:03:40.040 --> 2:03:41.840 Yeah, this was like a real debate. We haven't had 2:03:41.840 --> 2:03:42.920 one of these in a long time. 2:03:43.280 --> 2:03:45.880 No, no, maybe never. I can't actually think of a 2:03:45.920 --> 2:03:48.520 time in my life. It's certainly not in my adult 2:03:48.560 --> 2:03:51.240 life where we have had one. I don't know, you 2:03:51.280 --> 2:03:53.880 know what, Maybe I'm not remembering the Romney one well enough, 2:03:53.920 --> 2:03:56.360 but certainly it's been a long time since we've got 2:03:56.440 --> 2:04:00.520 This was really was about the issues to a significant extent, 2:04:01.120 --> 2:04:03.120 not all of the issues I would have picked to 2:04:03.160 --> 2:04:05.720 talk about, but there was a lot of discussion of 2:04:05.880 --> 2:04:07.680 issues and policy. 2:04:07.840 --> 2:04:09.920 And like actual moderating. 2:04:09.600 --> 2:04:11.720 And actual moderating, yes, live. 2:04:11.520 --> 2:04:14.200 Fact checks, which I've never seen to this extent at 2:04:14.240 --> 2:04:17.440 any Yeah, at any presidential debate. Ever, it was almost 2:04:17.440 --> 2:04:19.480 shocking to see the moderators actually do their job. 2:04:19.680 --> 2:04:21.120 That was the highlight of the night for me. 2:04:21.320 --> 2:04:23.360 Yeah, And if you didn't catch the debate, it was 2:04:23.400 --> 2:04:29.040 hosted by Disney's ABC and the moderators were Lindsay Davis 2:04:29.040 --> 2:04:33.280 and David Muir, and yeah, both of them each did 2:04:33.320 --> 2:04:37.320 a very decent job, I believe, with live fact checking. 2:04:37.440 --> 2:04:41.560 When Trump said some of yes, very out of pocket, 2:04:41.640 --> 2:04:43.760 unhinged comments. 2:04:43.400 --> 2:04:45.200 They deferred to him a couple of times when he 2:04:45.200 --> 2:04:47.240 would demand to be allowed to speak. That I wasn't 2:04:47.240 --> 2:04:49.120 thrilled with, but yeah, it was kind of it was 2:04:49.120 --> 2:04:52.600 made up for you know. One of the things going 2:04:52.600 --> 2:04:54.320 on on the right wing media the last couple of 2:04:54.360 --> 2:04:57.080 days has been this claim that Haitian immigrants to the 2:04:57.160 --> 2:05:01.040 United States are eating people's pets. Probably do an episode 2:05:01.080 --> 2:05:03.800 on this, it's worth covering. Like it's all lies, it's 2:05:03.800 --> 2:05:06.480 like evil, racist lies. But Trump brought it up in 2:05:06.600 --> 2:05:10.960 detail during the debate and got pressed pretty effectively by 2:05:11.040 --> 2:05:13.920 David who essentially what I'm saying like, well, that's just 2:05:14.040 --> 2:05:17.320 not true. Like we've talked to the city manager. There's 2:05:17.360 --> 2:05:20.400 no reports of anyone's pet speed. Yeah, you've just made 2:05:20.400 --> 2:05:23.160 this up. And Trump said it was true because he 2:05:23.240 --> 2:05:24.040 saw it on TV. 2:05:24.240 --> 2:05:25.600 He said it twice. 2:05:25.680 --> 2:05:28.000 But like, you know, I just want to like for 2:05:28.320 --> 2:05:31.400 like a Reuter's fact check, like this started from a 2:05:31.800 --> 2:05:37.040 Facebook post and then determined that it was there was 2:05:37.080 --> 2:05:40.840 no evidence to this claim, and that didn't stop the 2:05:40.960 --> 2:05:45.360 likes of jd Vance and other horrible individuals spreading it 2:05:45.400 --> 2:05:47.640 on the internet and Donald Trump announcing it to be 2:05:47.680 --> 2:05:53.240 true multiple times during the biggest presidential debate of our lifetime. 2:05:53.600 --> 2:05:57.160 As they kept saying, it seems every debate is the 2:05:57.200 --> 2:05:59.200 most historic debate that's ever happened. 2:05:59.320 --> 2:06:01.720 Yeah, I'm going to say this one wasn't. Sorry, the 2:06:01.800 --> 2:06:04.840 last one definitely was because one of the guys who 2:06:04.920 --> 2:06:07.400 was in it is no longer running for presidents. 2:06:07.560 --> 2:06:09.760 That's fair. That one was a little historic. 2:06:09.880 --> 2:06:11.840 Yeah, do we want to get into a little bit 2:06:11.840 --> 2:06:12.720 of the pre show at all? 2:06:12.840 --> 2:06:14.880 Or sure we could talk about the pre show first? 2:06:15.120 --> 2:06:15.360 Yeah? 2:06:15.440 --> 2:06:17.360 Why not? Why don't you start there? 2:06:17.400 --> 2:06:17.879 Sophie. 2:06:18.080 --> 2:06:21.640 During the pre show, Fox News was talking about how 2:06:21.680 --> 2:06:24.680 the Trump campaign says that he will only go low 2:06:25.360 --> 2:06:29.480 on the issues, and he did not. They also had 2:06:29.840 --> 2:06:33.800 a guy who is on TV way too much Byron Donald, 2:06:34.240 --> 2:06:38.520 where he said that Kamala, we know Biden is not 2:06:38.600 --> 2:06:40.560 running the country your VP. 2:06:41.040 --> 2:06:43.120 Now basically what. 2:06:43.000 --> 2:06:46.320 They they kind of just did the same sad talking 2:06:46.400 --> 2:06:50.760 points and then CNN did, I mean, this is not 2:06:50.840 --> 2:06:53.560 that interesting, to be honest, like CNN talked about how 2:06:53.600 --> 2:06:57.960 important this was, and Chris Wallace specifically said that Trump's 2:06:57.960 --> 2:07:00.680 biggest strength is he doesn't talk like a Paulian. I 2:07:00.720 --> 2:07:03.880 don't think that helped him tonight, to be honest, not tonight. 2:07:03.880 --> 2:07:06.480 Well, you know, to be honest, here's what I would 2:07:06.480 --> 2:07:10.240 say that was true of why he won. That played 2:07:10.240 --> 2:07:13.400 a major role in winning. But he talks like a 2:07:13.440 --> 2:07:17.920 politician now because politics has reordered itself around trump Ism, 2:07:17.960 --> 2:07:21.680 particularly on the right. But even Harris and Walls are 2:07:21.720 --> 2:07:26.200 a little trumpier than certainly any Democratic politician was before 2:07:26.240 --> 2:07:26.760 the selection. 2:07:26.960 --> 2:07:29.560 Right, and the most interesting thing that was said in 2:07:29.920 --> 2:07:32.200 both of these things to be which will bring us 2:07:32.200 --> 2:07:35.200 to the start of the debate. CNN was heavily focused 2:07:35.240 --> 2:07:37.520 on the fact that President Trump is almost a foot 2:07:37.520 --> 2:07:40.400 taller than Vice President Harris and asking if he will 2:07:40.440 --> 2:07:43.960 take advantage of that. He wouldn't even meet her across 2:07:44.000 --> 2:07:45.880 the stage to shake her hand. She walked all the 2:07:45.880 --> 2:07:48.400 way over to him. I genuinely think he did not 2:07:48.480 --> 2:07:49.400 want to shake her hand. 2:07:50.160 --> 2:07:53.720 No, he didn't, And I thought that was again, this 2:07:53.800 --> 2:07:56.280 all seems like very petty stuff to talk about, but 2:07:56.360 --> 2:07:59.760 this is the pettiest man alive, and like this stuff 2:07:59.760 --> 2:08:02.280 actually does matter. And I think it was a pretty 2:08:02.320 --> 2:08:05.200 intelligent strategic move. I think it started off the night 2:08:05.760 --> 2:08:08.640 with him off ballance. She immediately put him off balance 2:08:08.640 --> 2:08:12.640 and pissed him off, and he didn't really recover. He 2:08:12.680 --> 2:08:15.840 had some moments. He certainly was not weak everywhere I 2:08:15.880 --> 2:08:19.560 think he was. He was lie like his economy. Everything 2:08:19.560 --> 2:08:21.680 he says about like tariffs is like it's a nonsense 2:08:21.720 --> 2:08:25.760 policy that would devastate like large chunks of this country. 2:08:26.240 --> 2:08:28.840 But I think his messaging was pretty effective there. It 2:08:28.880 --> 2:08:31.200 probably is going to work for a lot of moderates. 2:08:31.240 --> 2:08:34.960 I thought his messaging on Afghanistan was really effective. I 2:08:34.960 --> 2:08:37.360 think he probably won that segment of the debate just 2:08:37.400 --> 2:08:39.000 in terms of what's going to play better. 2:08:39.080 --> 2:08:40.680 Those are the two definitely right. 2:08:41.200 --> 2:08:44.840 But you know, he didn't lose every clash they had. 2:08:45.160 --> 2:08:48.160 He never got momentum, and he was never able to 2:08:48.280 --> 2:08:51.400 build momentum. Even when he had a win, he was 2:08:51.440 --> 2:08:54.080 never able to tie that into a greater pattern like 2:08:54.120 --> 2:08:56.640 he was with Biden. He was never able to get 2:08:56.680 --> 2:08:59.520 any kind of weight behind him. He just kind of 2:08:59.600 --> 2:09:00.800 was wabbed the whole. 2:09:00.680 --> 2:09:03.960 Night, which I think at this scale is the first 2:09:03.960 --> 2:09:04.960 we've seen from him. 2:09:05.400 --> 2:09:08.320 No, it was definitely Kamala going in hard for the 2:09:08.360 --> 2:09:11.400 handshake at the very very start of the debate was 2:09:11.560 --> 2:09:15.760 her equivalent of Trump following around Hillary Clinton on that 2:09:15.800 --> 2:09:19.560 debate stage. Yep, it threw him off balance. He wasn't 2:09:19.560 --> 2:09:22.960 expecting it. It immediately kind of gave her the upper 2:09:23.000 --> 2:09:26.280 hand literally wow and controlling where the conversation was going 2:09:26.360 --> 2:09:29.560 to go. Like Trump refused to look at Kamala through 2:09:29.640 --> 2:09:32.560 the entire debate. He only looked straight ahead. Kamala was 2:09:32.600 --> 2:09:35.440 often addressing Trump directly looking at him and then also 2:09:35.480 --> 2:09:38.200 turning towards the cameras. Trump was just straight faced the 2:09:38.360 --> 2:09:41.520 entire time. He never he never looked at her or 2:09:41.800 --> 2:09:46.080 acknowledged her like visually. It was kind of odd to see, 2:09:46.080 --> 2:09:48.879 and throughout the debate he just kept getting really angry 2:09:48.920 --> 2:09:52.800 and almost like childish. Harris maintained her ability to present 2:09:52.840 --> 2:09:55.480 herself as like the more hopeful candidate and by and 2:09:55.560 --> 2:09:56.960 large led the debate. 2:09:57.040 --> 2:09:57.520 Yeah. 2:09:57.600 --> 2:10:00.680 Yeah, he kept having to like follow her. You just 2:10:00.680 --> 2:10:02.200 came off as like an angry child. 2:10:02.520 --> 2:10:02.680 Now. 2:10:02.880 --> 2:10:05.920 She did not answer some of the questions about like 2:10:05.960 --> 2:10:08.680 her policy shifts, but she was able to deflect those 2:10:08.760 --> 2:10:12.600 questions and Trump to go off topic to talking about 2:10:12.680 --> 2:10:16.120 like crowd sizes and rumors about eating dogs. Trump wasn't 2:10:16.120 --> 2:10:18.160 able to actually talk about what his plans for the 2:10:18.160 --> 2:10:21.520 country were. Harris just kept him like complaining about weird nonsense, 2:10:21.560 --> 2:10:23.920 going off on tagents, and always going back to talking 2:10:23.960 --> 2:10:27.640 about immigrants. He just couldn't control the conversation at all. 2:10:28.240 --> 2:10:30.760 No, and the crowd size stuff. Like he was very 2:10:30.800 --> 2:10:33.960 clearly like on the verge of kind of losing it there, 2:10:34.080 --> 2:10:36.080 which was interesting to see. 2:10:36.240 --> 2:10:40.480 CNN claimed during their post show that that moment was 2:10:40.520 --> 2:10:43.000 when he never recovered after the crowd size stuff. 2:10:43.040 --> 2:10:44.600 Yeah, I think that's probably accurate. 2:10:44.640 --> 2:10:47.600 Fair, Yeah, that's a fair analysis from CNN. 2:10:48.320 --> 2:10:50.840 I would say that he didn't he never recovered from 2:10:50.880 --> 2:10:53.840 the opening handshake, Like, but that's when it was kind 2:10:53.840 --> 2:10:57.040 of undeniable, the crowd sized thing like, because he kept 2:10:57.080 --> 2:10:59.240 trying to get back on the rails, and I think 2:10:59.280 --> 2:11:01.760 he gave up. And the clearest example of that was 2:11:02.320 --> 2:11:04.720 his closing statements, which I know we're kind of jumping 2:11:04.760 --> 2:11:08.440 around here, but Kamala's closing statements were the kind of 2:11:08.480 --> 2:11:11.640 closing statements you give if you are trying to become 2:11:11.680 --> 2:11:16.480 the president, and Trump's you can contrast it to the 2:11:16.520 --> 2:11:19.720 way he was talking during his big RNC speech, which 2:11:19.760 --> 2:11:24.520 was certainly much too long, but was clearly intentional for 2:11:24.560 --> 2:11:27.280 the most part, was a better speech. Yeah, it's like 2:11:27.280 --> 2:11:30.080 there was some ad libbing there. He did some, but 2:11:30.240 --> 2:11:32.760 this was clearly not written down ahead of time. It 2:11:32.760 --> 2:11:35.040 did not sound like that. It made no sense. Yeah, 2:11:35.040 --> 2:11:35.760 it was nonsense. 2:11:36.120 --> 2:11:38.680 Kamala's ending statement was talking about how this is a 2:11:38.680 --> 2:11:41.480 fight for two different versions of what this country will 2:11:41.480 --> 2:11:45.839 look like, you know, very politician e speech. Trump didn't 2:11:45.960 --> 2:11:49.080 talk about himself at all. He just was complaining that 2:11:49.160 --> 2:11:51.480 if Kamala Harris has so many great ideas for the country, 2:11:51.600 --> 2:11:54.240 why hasn't she enacted them? And the answer is because 2:11:54.240 --> 2:11:56.680 she's not the president. Yes, but he did not talk 2:11:56.680 --> 2:11:58.840 about his own version of the country. He was just 2:11:58.920 --> 2:12:01.880 complaining about how much he didn't like Kamala Harris and 2:12:01.960 --> 2:12:04.520 that Kamala Harris is promising to do great things even 2:12:04.560 --> 2:12:06.600 though that she's not like doing them right now as 2:12:06.640 --> 2:12:09.720 vice president. And that was his messaging, at. 2:12:09.680 --> 2:12:11.880 Least in the pre show that I watched, and in 2:12:11.920 --> 2:12:14.800 a lot of like the punditry I read before this, 2:12:15.280 --> 2:12:17.440 the thing that kept getting reinforced was that this has 2:12:17.480 --> 2:12:19.840 to be a debate about the issues. The Americans that 2:12:19.880 --> 2:12:23.520 are still undecided want to hear what people's plans are 2:12:23.560 --> 2:12:27.520 for the country. Now. Do I believe that's the case. 2:12:27.880 --> 2:12:33.320 I'm not necessarily the most optimistic about how seriously Americans 2:12:33.360 --> 2:12:37.120 take political policy. But if that is the case, Trump 2:12:37.320 --> 2:12:39.960 blew his chance to talk about what he wants to 2:12:39.960 --> 2:12:43.360 do as president because he number one, was extremely defensive. 2:12:43.400 --> 2:12:47.720 He spent more time denying things that he wasn't going 2:12:47.800 --> 2:12:50.240 to do. Like it she got him very good on 2:12:50.280 --> 2:12:52.640 twenty twenty five. That has proven to be an extremely 2:12:52.640 --> 2:12:56.320 effective line of attack, and he was really he had 2:12:56.360 --> 2:12:59.160 to not just deny that he planned to like in 2:12:59.280 --> 2:13:02.040 State Project T twenty five as present, but like he 2:13:02.080 --> 2:13:04.320 had to repeatedly claim I've never read it like, I 2:13:04.360 --> 2:13:05.400 don't know what's in it. 2:13:05.480 --> 2:13:06.800 I don't want to read it. 2:13:07.000 --> 2:13:10.120 I have nothing to do with Project twenty twenty five. 2:13:11.200 --> 2:13:13.920 In a way that sounded almost panicked. Yeah, right, like 2:13:14.040 --> 2:13:17.400 where he really I'm kind of surprised they didn't give 2:13:17.480 --> 2:13:20.200 him a better response on that, that they didn't really 2:13:20.280 --> 2:13:22.360 drill that down, and I wonder if they did. And 2:13:22.440 --> 2:13:26.160 he just was so flustered and pissed that he didn't 2:13:26.160 --> 2:13:28.920 do it. But he certainly did not have an effective 2:13:28.960 --> 2:13:33.000 response to that one. And when he kept repeatedly being 2:13:33.040 --> 2:13:35.920 asked to give his policy on how he would like 2:13:36.040 --> 2:13:39.920 fix the Affordable Care Act or replace it, he just punted. 2:13:40.280 --> 2:13:42.200 He just kept saying it's terrible. 2:13:42.560 --> 2:13:45.120 It's like, okay, yeah, it's terrible, but i can't do 2:13:45.240 --> 2:13:47.560 anything about it, so I'm not going to repeal it, 2:13:47.960 --> 2:13:50.440 but like We've got to do better. It was. It 2:13:50.480 --> 2:13:51.760 was a really weak answer. 2:13:52.480 --> 2:13:53.000 Yeah. 2:13:53.280 --> 2:13:55.760 One thing I found interesting is that the last debate 2:13:55.800 --> 2:13:57.760 was full of so many AD breaks and we went 2:13:57.840 --> 2:14:02.040 full like a one hour, yeah, full hour before before ads, 2:14:02.440 --> 2:14:05.240 and speaking of ads, oh wow, we have gone a 2:14:05.280 --> 2:14:08.120 full thirteen minutes, and that means it's time for us 2:14:08.160 --> 2:14:08.960 to take an ad break. 2:14:19.560 --> 2:14:20.960 All right, we are back. 2:14:21.320 --> 2:14:23.880 Yeah. Can I get to one thing first because I 2:14:24.000 --> 2:14:27.920 just came across this. It's about the Haitian immigrants. PBS 2:14:28.040 --> 2:14:31.200 put up a documentary like literally a day or two 2:14:31.280 --> 2:14:34.360 ago talking, yeah, one day ago, talking about this, and 2:14:34.400 --> 2:14:38.080 they interview a factory owner in Springfield, Ohio about what 2:14:38.160 --> 2:14:40.600 he thinks of Haitian migration, and he's like, I wish 2:14:40.800 --> 2:14:42.640 a lot more of them would come. They're the only 2:14:42.720 --> 2:14:44.920 people in town who don't do drugs and come to 2:14:45.000 --> 2:14:48.320 work on time. I just thought that was a great, 2:14:48.520 --> 2:14:52.760 great Springfield, Ohio representation. I hope that guy's happened a 2:14:52.760 --> 2:14:53.320 good night. 2:14:54.000 --> 2:14:57.680 Great quote there, Robert, Yeah, Gerre, what do you want 2:14:57.720 --> 2:14:58.400 to talk about next? 2:14:58.920 --> 2:14:59.000 Now? 2:14:59.040 --> 2:15:00.240 In this middle section, it is kind of I want 2:15:00.240 --> 2:15:01.800 to go over some of what they actually talked about 2:15:01.840 --> 2:15:04.640 during the debate, a few of kind of the main topics. 2:15:04.880 --> 2:15:07.440 They started with the economy. Kamla was talking about how 2:15:07.440 --> 2:15:10.360 there's a shortage of homes, they're the cost of housing 2:15:10.680 --> 2:15:13.640 is just too high, and she's going to have tax 2:15:13.720 --> 2:15:17.680 cuts for families and warned about Trump's quote unquote sales 2:15:17.760 --> 2:15:22.320 tax that would rise costs for households by nearly four 2:15:22.360 --> 2:15:25.160 thousand dollars a year now. This is in reference to 2:15:25.240 --> 2:15:27.800 Trump's tariffs, which he then talked about next. They know 2:15:27.840 --> 2:15:30.640 they're not sales tax, they're tariffs, and that countries will 2:15:30.640 --> 2:15:32.320 pay us back for all that we've done in the 2:15:32.400 --> 2:15:36.520 world's insane, which will bainly mean that our economy will 2:15:36.520 --> 2:15:39.800 do worse and things will be more expensive for us. 2:15:39.280 --> 2:15:42.480 I thought Kama was pretty strong during that section in 2:15:42.560 --> 2:15:47.520 terms of like her response. She directly mentioned Goldman Sachs, 2:15:47.960 --> 2:15:50.720 which is something that's come out in the last couple 2:15:50.800 --> 2:15:55.320 days from Reuters. It's that the Goldman Sacks's biggest boost 2:15:55.400 --> 2:15:58.839 you as economy from Maharis when talking about US economic 2:15:58.880 --> 2:16:00.640 growth would likely get the biggest boost in the coming 2:16:00.640 --> 2:16:03.080 two years from Democrats headed by Kamala Harris winning the 2:16:03.080 --> 2:16:07.280 White House in Congress in Novembers election. And she specifically 2:16:08.080 --> 2:16:12.040 called out to that, And her being actually able to 2:16:12.080 --> 2:16:15.440 call out to something like that in a debate was 2:16:15.520 --> 2:16:17.800 something we I haven't seen in a while on a debate, 2:16:17.840 --> 2:16:21.080 and so that was something that I particularly took note of. 2:16:21.400 --> 2:16:24.440 Yeah, actually slight relevant authorities on issues. 2:16:24.640 --> 2:16:28.120 Yeah, Yeah, she did a lot of that. She definitely 2:16:28.200 --> 2:16:31.200 had her moments where she would avoid responses. I noted 2:16:31.240 --> 2:16:34.720 she consistently refused to answer, are there limitations you think 2:16:34.760 --> 2:16:39.000 should be in place on when people can get abortions? Right? Yeah, 2:16:39.080 --> 2:16:41.320 she just kind of did not answer that one. Now, 2:16:41.520 --> 2:16:44.320 to be frank, I think that's a bullshit question, and 2:16:44.360 --> 2:16:47.240 I think a redirection was pretty effective. Yeah, But as 2:16:47.280 --> 2:16:51.120 a general rule, when she answered questions, she cited statistics 2:16:51.280 --> 2:16:56.240 and like studies and did a pretty a pretty good job. Now, again, 2:16:56.600 --> 2:16:58.840 how well is that going to matter? We're still very 2:16:58.879 --> 2:17:02.560 early in the pundit cycle here. It seems pretty clear 2:17:02.600 --> 2:17:07.280 that most of the mainstream media, including Fox Like, agrees 2:17:08.160 --> 2:17:11.680 Harris won the night. Polymarket predicts a ninety seven percent 2:17:11.760 --> 2:17:14.680 chance that Harris is judged the winner in the debate snappoles, 2:17:15.080 --> 2:17:17.879 which I found out from Nate Silver's quick reaction, where 2:17:17.920 --> 2:17:21.240 he also notes, quote bitcoin prices are down, which also 2:17:21.280 --> 2:17:22.880 implies a loss for Trump. 2:17:24.959 --> 2:17:26.160 That's very funny. 2:17:27.560 --> 2:17:31.440 I love that Bitcoin's a good political needle to see 2:17:31.480 --> 2:17:32.560 where the country's going. 2:17:32.800 --> 2:17:35.760 I'll tell you the happiest assuming that we don't usher 2:17:35.800 --> 2:17:39.040 in a new fascist or you know, a significantly worse 2:17:39.280 --> 2:17:42.240 state in November. The best thing about it is going 2:17:42.280 --> 2:17:44.200 to be not needing to pay attention to Nate Silver 2:17:44.280 --> 2:17:45.320 for another four years. 2:17:45.520 --> 2:17:46.760 Yeah, but yeah, you know. 2:17:47.160 --> 2:17:49.480 He did make one other point that I found kind 2:17:49.480 --> 2:17:52.920 of funny, which was his argument that, like well, Trump 2:17:52.959 --> 2:17:55.600 is a lot taller. The stature gap in terms of 2:17:55.600 --> 2:17:58.959 physical size was also notable, especially with Harris having a 2:17:59.000 --> 2:18:01.920 shorter podium. And you'll hear people say that you should 2:18:01.920 --> 2:18:04.000 watch the debate with the sound off, and by that 2:18:04.080 --> 2:18:06.200 measure it was much closer than with the sound on. 2:18:06.560 --> 2:18:10.840 Who says that name? Has ever said that, who's gonna 2:18:10.879 --> 2:18:12.640 watch the debate with the sound off? 2:18:12.840 --> 2:18:16.280 Stick to Poles man, what the fuck is wrong with you? 2:18:16.800 --> 2:18:19.400 These debates used to be audio only. They were a 2:18:19.480 --> 2:18:22.160 radio broadcasts. That is, that's how the TA started. 2:18:22.280 --> 2:18:25.240 That is so unwell of him to say what are you? 2:18:25.280 --> 2:18:28.680 What are you doing? Why think that over head? And 2:18:28.720 --> 2:18:30.160 don't put that on the internet. 2:18:30.200 --> 2:18:31.039 He is a good one. 2:18:32.000 --> 2:18:35.720 Yes, every second Nate Silver isn't writing a blog post 2:18:35.879 --> 2:18:39.240 or looking at Poles he is he is sitting in 2:18:38.720 --> 2:18:43.920 a shitty bar in like Fremont Street, Vegas, playing like 2:18:44.120 --> 2:18:47.480 mid Steaks poker. So he probably does consume a lot 2:18:47.520 --> 2:18:49.400 of television with the sound off. 2:18:49.800 --> 2:18:51.520 But to go back to the economy. 2:18:51.720 --> 2:18:54.400 So as Kamla was talking about her plans for like 2:18:54.640 --> 2:18:58.480 tax credits and tax cuts helping people buy homes, Trump 2:18:58.600 --> 2:19:02.520 was just talking about and immediately brought up that one 2:19:02.520 --> 2:19:05.119 of the things that's affecting the economy is that there's 2:19:05.160 --> 2:19:07.680 there's millions of people pouring in from prisons and a 2:19:07.760 --> 2:19:11.920 sane asylums, taking jobs from black and Hispanic and union workers. 2:19:12.320 --> 2:19:15.880 That these immigrants are taking over towns and buildings violently, 2:19:16.879 --> 2:19:19.680 And it's just immediately that's that, that's what that's what 2:19:19.720 --> 2:19:22.120 he goes to because he has really just nothing else. 2:19:22.360 --> 2:19:26.640 He also said people can't buy bacon, cereal and eggs 2:19:26.680 --> 2:19:28.080 cereal cereal. 2:19:28.200 --> 2:19:30.280 Of all the foods to choose cereal. 2:19:31.600 --> 2:19:34.440 So yeah, tried to talk about like inflation and stuff. 2:19:34.720 --> 2:19:37.080 It just it just didn't go very well, especially because 2:19:37.080 --> 2:19:40.000 inflations rose so much during the pandemic when he was president. 2:19:40.320 --> 2:19:43.039 It just didn't play very well at all. Immediately it 2:19:43.080 --> 2:19:45.520 was clear that Kamala was kind of the front runner. 2:19:45.760 --> 2:19:48.840 The next topic was abortion, which Kamala also did very well, 2:19:48.879 --> 2:19:52.000 and Trump just really lost it because he couldn't stop 2:19:52.040 --> 2:19:56.279 talking about how Tim Walls wants to execute babies after birth, 2:19:56.800 --> 2:19:58.960 and this just this was the main thing he talked about. 2:19:59.000 --> 2:20:02.480 He was very defensive about his stance on a national 2:20:02.480 --> 2:20:06.640 abortion ban. Moderators asked him about his contradictory abortion statements, 2:20:06.640 --> 2:20:08.840 about how he's voting for an abortion ban in Florida 2:20:09.080 --> 2:20:12.680 but is claiming to not want one nationally, and Trump 2:20:12.720 --> 2:20:14.400 just didn't know how to talk about this topic very 2:20:14.440 --> 2:20:18.360 well and just kept saying that Democrats are evil because 2:20:18.400 --> 2:20:22.200 they want to do nine month abortions, seven month, eight 2:20:22.200 --> 2:20:27.000 month abortions, post birth executions, they will execute the baby, 2:20:27.240 --> 2:20:29.880 which was I believe this was like the first fact 2:20:29.959 --> 2:20:31.560 check for the night, and this is what kind of 2:20:31.560 --> 2:20:33.800 really scared Trump is. He was like, Oh, they're actually 2:20:33.800 --> 2:20:36.480 gonna call me on this stuff. Moderator said that there's 2:20:36.520 --> 2:20:39.520 no states where you can kill babies after birth, and 2:20:39.560 --> 2:20:41.959 Trump just didn't know what to do. Kamala brought up 2:20:41.959 --> 2:20:44.800 Project to twenty twenty five and their plans for a 2:20:44.879 --> 2:20:48.240 national abortion ban. Trump made a little funny comment kind 2:20:48.240 --> 2:20:53.320 of throwing JD Vans under the buss about Trump vetoing 2:20:53.400 --> 2:20:56.279 a national abortion ban if it was passed by Congress. 2:20:56.640 --> 2:20:59.080 Trump said that he actually hadn't talked to Vance about that. 2:21:00.120 --> 2:21:01.600 I didn't discuss it with Jamie. 2:21:01.720 --> 2:21:04.480 By the way, I've been taken a break from Twitter, 2:21:04.520 --> 2:21:07.039 but I did catch a good post recently. JD. Vance, 2:21:07.080 --> 2:21:09.320 before the debate, made a claim that a bunch of 2:21:09.320 --> 2:21:12.160 people from Springfield who he won't name, have reached out 2:21:12.160 --> 2:21:15.520 to him talking about Haitians eating their pets, and then 2:21:15.600 --> 2:21:17.680 ended it by saying like, it's possible this will prove 2:21:17.720 --> 2:21:21.400 to be untrue. And someone just quote tweeted that and said, 2:21:21.640 --> 2:21:24.280 every day I see something that makes me understand why 2:21:24.360 --> 2:21:27.720 Vance's mom traded him for a couple of perk thirties. 2:21:28.920 --> 2:21:29.560 Incredible. 2:21:33.040 --> 2:21:35.800 Kamala basically said most of her regular talking points and abortion. 2:21:35.959 --> 2:21:38.520 She would like for the House in the Senate to 2:21:38.760 --> 2:21:41.600 put abortion protections into law and she would sign that 2:21:41.640 --> 2:21:44.400 bill and wants to restore the protections of Roe v. Wade, 2:21:44.879 --> 2:21:48.560 and also talked about how it's absurd to be talking 2:21:48.640 --> 2:21:52.320 about post birth executions and how this is like consulting. 2:21:52.560 --> 2:21:55.119 Yep, she's correct, Thank you so much. 2:21:55.640 --> 2:21:56.000 Yeah. 2:21:56.240 --> 2:21:58.920 Next thing was the border, very similar to both their 2:21:59.000 --> 2:22:01.680 RNC and their DNC speeches. Kamala talking about this kind 2:22:01.680 --> 2:22:04.800 of very conservative border bill that Trump shot down for 2:22:04.879 --> 2:22:08.760 political gain and then invited us to attend a Trump 2:22:08.879 --> 2:22:11.760 rally where he talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter 2:22:12.240 --> 2:22:15.720 and how windmills caused cancer, and that people leave early, 2:22:16.080 --> 2:22:18.760 and he never talks about you, the American people. So 2:22:18.920 --> 2:22:21.760 this was obviously giant bait for Trump, which he he 2:22:22.200 --> 2:22:25.680 took immediately. He just couldn't stop talking about people actually 2:22:25.720 --> 2:22:27.520 come to my rallies way more than they go to 2:22:27.560 --> 2:22:31.080 your rallies. They don't leave early. You have to bust 2:22:31.080 --> 2:22:32.759 in people to your rallies. 2:22:32.640 --> 2:22:35.680 And he claims she pays people to attend her rallies 2:22:35.720 --> 2:22:36.240 as well. 2:22:36.520 --> 2:22:37.680 He got so flustered. 2:22:37.760 --> 2:22:39.920 Is that this is what he started talking about the 2:22:39.959 --> 2:22:42.960 eating dogs thing. It's because he got so flustered on 2:22:43.040 --> 2:22:45.800 this line of argument about his crowd size that he 2:22:45.879 --> 2:22:47.920 just he just had to immediately talk about how there's 2:22:47.920 --> 2:22:51.160 immigrants eating dogs. Yeah, because he just didn't know what 2:22:51.200 --> 2:22:51.480 to do. 2:22:51.800 --> 2:22:54.640 I mean, it's actually kind of just a very like 2:22:54.760 --> 2:22:59.560 on the nose, but perfect representation of how racism works 2:23:00.440 --> 2:23:03.520 culturally a lot of the time, which is like white 2:23:03.600 --> 2:23:07.480 man feels aggrieved and threatened and immediately turns to attacking 2:23:07.520 --> 2:23:10.959 an entire group of people based on their race, like 2:23:11.320 --> 2:23:13.879 it really was the most direct example of that that 2:23:13.959 --> 2:23:17.400 you could possibly get, Like, he felt vulnerable and so 2:23:17.480 --> 2:23:19.920 he attacked a group of people for eating cats. He 2:23:19.959 --> 2:23:20.880 did a blood libel. 2:23:21.360 --> 2:23:24.080 I think a big part of Kamalist strategy here was 2:23:24.160 --> 2:23:28.080 to paint Trump as like an illegitimate figure in politics, 2:23:28.160 --> 2:23:30.800 like someone who's not like responsible to like lead the. 2:23:30.760 --> 2:23:33.599 Military and it's dangerous. Yeah, she bragged. 2:23:33.280 --> 2:23:36.480 About the endorsement of two hundred Republicans, including Dick Cheney 2:23:36.640 --> 2:23:40.640 hated that moment, like, no, but you know, is not great, 2:23:41.040 --> 2:23:43.119 but we'll see if it plays politically well. 2:23:43.280 --> 2:23:43.920 It might work. 2:23:44.120 --> 2:23:47.960 Yeah, it doesn't play well for us, but yes, doesn't 2:23:48.000 --> 2:23:50.160 mean it doesn't overall play well. 2:23:50.680 --> 2:23:53.879 Unfortunately, a lot of her statements seemed like she was 2:23:53.879 --> 2:23:57.640 trying to court both the NATSEC people and the courts 2:23:57.680 --> 2:24:00.880 if there's ever like a contested election, Like she wants 2:24:00.920 --> 2:24:03.040 those people to be on her side. And there was 2:24:03.080 --> 2:24:05.240 a lot of Commons throughout the debate that was kind 2:24:05.240 --> 2:24:07.360 of pointing to that and like showing how Trump's just 2:24:07.400 --> 2:24:10.320 like an unreliable and like dangerous figure to be in 2:24:10.360 --> 2:24:13.680 control of national security. Trump went on this interesting tangent 2:24:13.720 --> 2:24:16.720 about how he was actually good because he fired a 2:24:16.760 --> 2:24:19.720 whole bunch of those Republicans because they were because they 2:24:19.720 --> 2:24:20.560 were bad at their jobs. 2:24:20.720 --> 2:24:22.880 I thought it was one of his more effective moments. 2:24:23.200 --> 2:24:26.480 That was something we've never really seen done before, openly 2:24:26.480 --> 2:24:28.600 attacking military leaders in that fashion. 2:24:28.879 --> 2:24:29.519 Yeah. 2:24:29.560 --> 2:24:31.800 I didn't read it as attacking military leaders. I read 2:24:31.800 --> 2:24:34.360 it as him specifically stating because she was Harris had 2:24:34.400 --> 2:24:37.240 been talking about the Republicans from the Bush White House 2:24:37.240 --> 2:24:39.840 who had endorsed her, And I read it as Trump 2:24:39.959 --> 2:24:42.840 saying I brought in a lot of like rhinos, what 2:24:42.879 --> 2:24:44.800 he would call rhinos, but I brought in a lot 2:24:44.840 --> 2:24:48.880 of like old Republican veterans and fired them because they 2:24:48.920 --> 2:24:51.120 were bad at their job. And I thought that was 2:24:51.120 --> 2:24:54.080 one where I was like, well, yeah, they were, you know, like, 2:24:54.120 --> 2:24:56.520 you're not wrong. You didn't replace them with anyone better, 2:24:56.600 --> 2:24:59.440 but like they were. In fact, you did hire a 2:24:59.480 --> 2:25:03.879 bunch of Republican officials who had a long history working 2:25:04.200 --> 2:25:08.560 in other administrations, who sucked at what they did, you know, like, 2:25:08.959 --> 2:25:11.520 not wrong. Now it's interesting to have him say I 2:25:11.600 --> 2:25:13.320 brought in a lot of people, some of them were 2:25:13.320 --> 2:25:14.560 good and some of them were bad. 2:25:14.760 --> 2:25:15.879 Yes, Yeah, I don't. 2:25:15.680 --> 2:25:18.440 Think I've ever heard a former president admit that during 2:25:18.440 --> 2:25:18.920 a debate. 2:25:19.080 --> 2:25:21.680 He was like, we don't talk about the good people. 2:25:21.760 --> 2:25:24.120 And it's like, well, why why don't you do that 2:25:24.200 --> 2:25:26.920 now during your debate. Yeah, here's your chance. 2:25:27.879 --> 2:25:28.160 JD. 2:25:28.320 --> 2:25:31.640 Vance great guy, great guy, great, great guy. Trump, So JD. 2:25:31.720 --> 2:25:33.520 Van's great guy. Never met him, don't know who he is. 2:25:33.560 --> 2:25:35.480 Who are you talking about, never talked to him. 2:25:36.200 --> 2:25:39.120 One of the more interesting questions the moderator asked was 2:25:39.360 --> 2:25:42.880 just directly asking Trump, how would you go about your 2:25:43.080 --> 2:25:46.160 massive deportation program? How would you actually go about deporting 2:25:46.520 --> 2:25:51.320 eleven million or more undocumented immigrants? And Trump did not 2:25:51.480 --> 2:25:54.360 have a real answer to this question. Trump said that, 2:25:54.400 --> 2:25:56.440 you know, there's actually way more of them here than 2:25:56.520 --> 2:25:59.040 what you would think. South America is sending all their 2:25:59.080 --> 2:25:59.760 criminals here. 2:26:00.000 --> 2:26:02.800 It's really interesting because he said, they say fifteen million, 2:26:02.879 --> 2:26:04.959 it's really twenty one million. And then he said, and 2:26:05.040 --> 2:26:06.720 it's a lot more than twenty one million. 2:26:07.640 --> 2:26:09.640 Okay, how many is it? Donald? 2:26:11.120 --> 2:26:14.879 The moderators challenged him on like rising crime rates, saying 2:26:14.959 --> 2:26:17.920 that the FBI is actually, you know, showing that crime 2:26:18.000 --> 2:26:21.119 is going down, and Trump then claimed that the FBI 2:26:21.360 --> 2:26:25.199 crime rates are fraudular, are fraudulent, which is the first 2:26:25.200 --> 2:26:27.240 time that you've seen, at least that I've seen him 2:26:27.240 --> 2:26:29.920 talk about it that way. Like usually on Fox News 2:26:30.240 --> 2:26:32.720 they will like mention that, but they'll be like, but 2:26:33.120 --> 2:26:36.160 people feel crime is going up, So that's what really matters. 2:26:36.240 --> 2:26:38.560 Even if even if the FBI claims it's going down, 2:26:38.640 --> 2:26:42.200 people still feel less safe. But he just openly said 2:26:42.240 --> 2:26:44.560 that those numbers are just like fake, like the FBI 2:26:44.640 --> 2:26:47.440 is just like lying saying that they aren't counting crimes 2:26:47.440 --> 2:26:50.560 in like the biggest major cities. Kanma's response to this 2:26:50.879 --> 2:26:53.800 was saying that that's rich coming from a convicted criminal. 2:26:53.840 --> 2:26:57.120 So we got that first, like prosecutor girl boss moment. 2:26:57.400 --> 2:26:58.720 Okay, hi've rise up. 2:26:59.280 --> 2:27:01.600 Trump complained about all of like the legal witch hunts 2:27:01.600 --> 2:27:04.880 he's been facing and said that, quote, I probably took 2:27:04.879 --> 2:27:07.000 a bullet to the head because of the things they 2:27:07.080 --> 2:27:10.039 say about me, unquote, which is just a fascinating way 2:27:10.040 --> 2:27:12.720 to frame that unhinged thing to say. 2:27:12.680 --> 2:27:15.959 It is, especially given how many Americans don't think he 2:27:16.120 --> 2:27:17.240 was shot in the head. 2:27:21.160 --> 2:27:26.320 You just know his advisors were like, what the fuck, Like, 2:27:27.000 --> 2:27:29.119 what are you saying right now? 2:27:29.280 --> 2:27:29.600 Ah? 2:27:29.680 --> 2:27:30.000 Fuck? 2:27:30.400 --> 2:27:31.840 Oh they are drinking tonight. 2:27:32.560 --> 2:27:33.520 Oh, they they. 2:27:33.400 --> 2:27:34.960 Are drinking tonight. 2:27:35.800 --> 2:27:36.679 Yeah. 2:27:36.840 --> 2:27:40.000 Yeah, And that's not even like the most unhinged thing 2:27:40.040 --> 2:27:42.280 he said, because the most unhinged thing he said the 2:27:42.400 --> 2:27:46.360 entire night came shortly after that, which was, she wants 2:27:46.440 --> 2:27:53.840 to do transgender operations on illegal aliens in prison. Based 2:27:54.560 --> 2:28:00.440 she wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens in prison. 2:28:00.680 --> 2:28:07.360 She wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens in. 2:28:07.520 --> 2:28:09.840 Prison, and the leader says she's a radical liberal. 2:28:10.080 --> 2:28:13.120 I believe that a president can perform surgery if that 2:28:13.240 --> 2:28:17.800 president wants to. Sophie and I support Kamala Harris's policy. 2:28:17.840 --> 2:28:19.600 You should have voted for Ben Carson, then. 2:28:20.000 --> 2:28:24.760 I did I write him in every year? Okay Jesus Christ, 2:28:24.879 --> 2:28:25.520 no you don't. 2:28:27.640 --> 2:28:30.320 There was a good tweet that remarked that it just 2:28:30.360 --> 2:28:33.680 sounds like he's talking like he's playing cards against humanity. 2:28:33.760 --> 2:28:36.480 He's just like change, He's just like changing out different 2:28:36.520 --> 2:28:41.600 words like transgender aliens, prison, surgery. I believe what he's 2:28:41.600 --> 2:28:44.400 referencing here is that both Fox News and Trump's campaign 2:28:44.440 --> 2:28:46.880 team the past few days have been talking about how 2:28:46.959 --> 2:28:50.360 in twenty twenty, Kamala made a statement basically saying that, yeah, 2:28:50.360 --> 2:28:52.800 we should like offer gender affirming health care to people 2:28:52.840 --> 2:28:55.240 in prison. Like, if you're in prison, we should not 2:28:55.440 --> 2:28:58.440 like deny health care to you just because you're locked up. 2:28:58.840 --> 2:29:01.520 That's like what he's talking about. That is specifically what 2:29:02.080 --> 2:29:05.840 he's referring to. But it just it's sounds just absolutely bad. 2:29:05.879 --> 2:29:06.080 Shit. 2:29:06.680 --> 2:29:09.160 Let's have another quick ad break. We will come back. 2:29:09.160 --> 2:29:11.160 I want to talk a little bit about January sixth, 2:29:11.520 --> 2:29:15.039 foreign policy, Israel, Palestine, and then some of Trump's and 2:29:15.120 --> 2:29:18.320 Kamala's post debate statements made to the press. 2:29:29.400 --> 2:29:32.360 All Right, we are so bad, so bad. 2:29:32.440 --> 2:29:37.520 It's so bad, like the Harris campaign kind of kind 2:29:37.520 --> 2:29:40.720 of She's been slowly kind of like flatlining in some 2:29:40.760 --> 2:29:42.520 of these polls. I do want to talk about that 2:29:42.560 --> 2:29:44.920 a little before we get into this, because it has 2:29:44.959 --> 2:29:51.520 been interesting. She's been losing kind of national popular vote momentum, 2:29:51.600 --> 2:29:54.800 and that has been narrowing. The swing states have not 2:29:55.080 --> 2:29:57.480 really narrowed in the same way. Yeah, which is not 2:29:57.520 --> 2:30:00.480 to say that she is a clear favorite. Everything basically 2:30:00.520 --> 2:30:01.720 is within the margin of error. 2:30:01.800 --> 2:30:04.480 She's barely ahead, but she's still ahead. It has been 2:30:04.520 --> 2:30:08.160 a really interesting change. It has not been the same. 2:30:08.320 --> 2:30:11.560 There's a newsletter I check on occasionally for stuff like 2:30:11.600 --> 2:30:14.879 this at GERMNTUM. That made what I thought was an 2:30:14.879 --> 2:30:17.640 interesting point, which was that it's possible that a lot 2:30:17.640 --> 2:30:19.600 of that has to do with the fact that the 2:30:19.720 --> 2:30:22.440 national popular vote has been narrowing as a result of 2:30:22.440 --> 2:30:24.920 the ads the Republicans have been pumping out because there 2:30:25.040 --> 2:30:27.959 wasn't a real strong consensus about who Harris was and 2:30:28.000 --> 2:30:31.680 now that's growing. But in a lot of these swing states, 2:30:31.720 --> 2:30:34.400 which are red states, people have been living under Republicans 2:30:34.440 --> 2:30:36.840 and are just a lot less kind of vulnerable to 2:30:36.920 --> 2:30:40.720 being drawn away by that kind of propaganda because they 2:30:41.400 --> 2:30:41.959 know what it's like. 2:30:42.640 --> 2:30:45.280 No, I mean, especially if you're looking at North Carolina, 2:30:45.360 --> 2:30:48.560 you're looking at Georgia. Those are two battlegrounds that the 2:30:48.600 --> 2:30:51.280 Harris campaign is targeting. I can definitely see that being 2:30:51.560 --> 2:30:56.160 being an aspect. So the mods turned the questions towards 2:30:56.280 --> 2:31:00.480 January sixth. Trump immediately claimed that nobody on the other 2:31:00.560 --> 2:31:03.080 side was killed, only Ash the bad that was killed 2:31:03.120 --> 2:31:05.000 by a bad police officer. 2:31:06.120 --> 2:31:07.440 Very ironic, but. 2:31:07.520 --> 2:31:11.080 Easily the only Coppall go to bat for the best 2:31:11.120 --> 2:31:14.560 shoot in twenty twenty one by a mile. 2:31:15.320 --> 2:31:18.879 And he then complained that why haven't BLM rioters been 2:31:18.959 --> 2:31:22.440 prosecuted in Seattle and Minneapolis, which of course they have. 2:31:22.760 --> 2:31:24.920 They are still they're still arresting people. 2:31:25.320 --> 2:31:28.480 Man, I've spent time in courtrooms with people, Like. 2:31:28.640 --> 2:31:31.320 Yes, I was shocked he did not call out Portland. 2:31:31.520 --> 2:31:34.199 It is interesting that he went for Seattle and not Portland. 2:31:34.280 --> 2:31:36.600 I guess maybe just says a lot about his media 2:31:36.680 --> 2:31:40.800 diet that he just maybe got a lot more Chaz 2:31:40.959 --> 2:31:42.480 stuff than he did Portland stuff. 2:31:42.520 --> 2:31:42.920 I don't know. 2:31:43.120 --> 2:31:45.439 He certainly did go after a commonal a few times 2:31:45.200 --> 2:31:48.320 for being pro defund the police back in twenty twenty. 2:31:48.440 --> 2:31:51.840 He really, he tried several times. He clearly she never 2:31:51.840 --> 2:31:54.240 took the bait. Yeah, she never took the bait. And 2:31:54.240 --> 2:31:57.920 that must have been one that his advisors really pushed 2:31:58.000 --> 2:31:59.880 him on. Yeah, like they must have said, you'll get her. 2:32:01.080 --> 2:32:04.480 It was both that and her previous like fracking policies, 2:32:05.360 --> 2:32:08.560 which which she has like backtracked on. And ye, you 2:32:08.680 --> 2:32:10.840 have to if you want to win Pennsylvania. So like, 2:32:10.879 --> 2:32:13.520 I understand why they're doing it. It sucks because the 2:32:13.560 --> 2:32:17.000 planet's burning, but right now they're trying to win Pennsylvania. 2:32:17.280 --> 2:32:19.560 The debate was in Pennsylvania, Like that's why she has 2:32:19.560 --> 2:32:22.360 backtracked on those policies. I think it's smart to deflect 2:32:22.360 --> 2:32:24.760 from that at least right now. But yeah, I mean, 2:32:24.800 --> 2:32:26.600 that's that's not surprising to me. 2:32:26.920 --> 2:32:27.080 Now. 2:32:27.120 --> 2:32:30.760 I think Kamala did a pretty good statement about January sixth. 2:32:30.840 --> 2:32:33.360 She said, I was at the Capitol on j sixth. 2:32:33.520 --> 2:32:35.760 He incited a violent mob. And now she got kind 2:32:35.760 --> 2:32:38.640 of emotional. She said one hundred and forty officers were 2:32:38.640 --> 2:32:41.720 injured and some died. Trump was impeached, which is something 2:32:41.760 --> 2:32:44.000 that just hasn't been talked about very much. Is like, yeah, 2:32:44.040 --> 2:32:46.400 Trump has been impeached. Why isn't that talked about very much? 2:32:46.400 --> 2:32:50.359 Because so many other things have happened, then everyone has forgotten. 2:32:49.959 --> 2:32:53.880 Yeah, that he was liter really impeached. Yeah, multiple times. 2:32:54.080 --> 2:32:56.200 And then she pointed to January sixth as like not 2:32:56.280 --> 2:32:59.200 the only incident. No, she pointed back to Charlottesville, talked 2:32:59.200 --> 2:33:02.240 about Trump's statements about Proud Boys and how the Proud 2:33:02.280 --> 2:33:04.680 Boy militia was told to stand back and stand by, 2:33:05.280 --> 2:33:07.760 and she kind of closed this this little January sixth 2:33:08.160 --> 2:33:10.600 monologue by saying, like, we don't have to go back 2:33:10.640 --> 2:33:13.280 to this. He says that if the election doesn't go 2:33:13.320 --> 2:33:14.879 to his liking there will be a blood bath. 2:33:15.080 --> 2:33:16.599 We don't have to go back. 2:33:16.600 --> 2:33:19.920 And she's positioning herself as like as an alternative towards 2:33:19.959 --> 2:33:23.160 like that type of chaos. Trump got very mad at this, 2:33:24.000 --> 2:33:27.400 very mad Trump talking about how Fox News debugged the 2:33:27.480 --> 2:33:28.480 Charlottesville quote. 2:33:28.720 --> 2:33:31.560 Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure. 2:33:32.240 --> 2:33:34.080 I know one other like fact checker I think with 2:33:34.200 --> 2:33:38.240 Snopes is like, actually, the Charlottesville quote is different in context, 2:33:38.240 --> 2:33:39.920 and at least a whole bunch of fact checkers that 2:33:39.959 --> 2:33:42.720 like I know and extremism reporters have kind of gotten 2:33:42.720 --> 2:33:45.520 on snopesas for this, because it's very clear it's a 2:33:45.640 --> 2:33:49.480 very disingenuous way of framing what he was trying to say. Yeah, 2:33:49.560 --> 2:33:51.320 we all know what happened on Charlottesville. We all know 2:33:51.320 --> 2:33:52.280 what he was talking about. 2:33:52.520 --> 2:33:54.680 Yeah, Cataboo is a really good video on it if 2:33:54.720 --> 2:33:55.440 you want to watch more. 2:33:55.520 --> 2:33:56.480 Yeah, yes she does. 2:33:56.840 --> 2:33:59.240 And then the moderators talked about how Trump has been 2:33:59.280 --> 2:34:02.039 falsely claiming for three and a half years that he 2:34:02.120 --> 2:34:04.920 won the twenty twenty election, but now says that he 2:34:05.360 --> 2:34:07.920 lost by a whisker, and Trump was startled by this. 2:34:08.000 --> 2:34:10.920 He's like, did I actually say that? I said that 2:34:11.040 --> 2:34:13.760 I said that. No, no, no, no, no, that was sarcastic, 2:34:14.040 --> 2:34:14.879 and it was. 2:34:14.879 --> 2:34:17.359 Like the only time I've ever heard him he sounded 2:34:17.440 --> 2:34:21.520 genuinely like confused, like maybe there was a little old man. 2:34:21.560 --> 2:34:23.520 But we were like, oh shit, what have I been saying. 2:34:23.600 --> 2:34:25.959 He's like, no, no, no, that was a sarcastic statement. 2:34:26.200 --> 2:34:28.880 I still think I won the twenty twenty election. 2:34:30.280 --> 2:34:32.680 Yeah, and he really And that was one of the 2:34:32.680 --> 2:34:35.280 more effective moderator moments because you could see the moderator 2:34:35.360 --> 2:34:37.120 was like, Oh, what a gift I've been given. I 2:34:37.200 --> 2:34:40.080 just want to make very clear. Let's have him say, 2:34:40.120 --> 2:34:43.199 Let's have him confirm what he means, like three times, 2:34:43.280 --> 2:34:44.280 and then we could move on. 2:34:44.840 --> 2:34:47.640 Kabla had a good reply talking about how like we 2:34:47.720 --> 2:34:51.160 can't have a candidate who's confused about how the elections work. 2:34:51.320 --> 2:34:53.920 And being like like she is correct, Yeah. 2:34:53.959 --> 2:34:57.560 Come on, great respond and then Trump immediately went on 2:34:57.600 --> 2:35:01.600 to defend Victor Horbon, Yes, the president of Hungary, seg 2:35:01.879 --> 2:35:04.000 some people call him the strong man because he's a 2:35:04.040 --> 2:35:04.920 really tough guy. 2:35:05.160 --> 2:35:07.000 He loves the strong man thing. 2:35:07.280 --> 2:35:10.200 That was my favorite part because he clearly misunderstood, no, 2:35:10.320 --> 2:35:12.119 strong man is a term for dictation. 2:35:12.560 --> 2:35:19.000 Yes, Yeah, he just that was quite a moment for 2:35:19.080 --> 2:35:19.720 this country. 2:35:19.840 --> 2:35:22.600 It was just the fumbling and bumbling. 2:35:22.920 --> 2:35:26.720 I love it, you know what. Overall, good time, except 2:35:26.720 --> 2:35:30.039 for one thing that really sucked, which is several things 2:35:30.040 --> 2:35:32.560 that really sucked, which is whenever it came to something 2:35:32.760 --> 2:35:36.280 where a huge number of human lives were involved. Yeah, 2:35:36.320 --> 2:35:38.680 almost always it got kind of brushed over. 2:35:39.040 --> 2:35:39.440 Ukraine. 2:35:39.560 --> 2:35:42.039 I will say, I don't think it got a very 2:35:42.240 --> 2:35:46.840 good set of questions. It was the same shit that 2:35:46.840 --> 2:35:50.400 they've been asking both sides. Right, The Dims get asked, 2:35:50.520 --> 2:35:53.440 how are you going to actually conclude this conflict in 2:35:53.480 --> 2:35:57.080 a favorable way? And the Republicans get asked, are you 2:35:57.200 --> 2:35:59.800 just going to abandon Ukraine? Right? Like, that's the gist 2:35:59.800 --> 2:36:03.959 of what both candidates are being pushed on, and the 2:36:04.040 --> 2:36:07.119 gist of their responses is unchanged from everything we've heard 2:36:07.120 --> 2:36:07.840 earlier this year. 2:36:07.920 --> 2:36:11.560 Right, And despite being asked multiple times, Trump refused to 2:36:11.600 --> 2:36:13.480 answer if it was in the world's best interest of 2:36:13.640 --> 2:36:16.160 Ukraine wins the war. He was asked that several times, 2:36:16.160 --> 2:36:18.200 and he just he just said, I want the war 2:36:18.240 --> 2:36:19.400 to end, not an answer. 2:36:19.440 --> 2:36:21.680 And there wouldn't have been a war if I'd been president. 2:36:22.440 --> 2:36:25.200 This wouldn't have happened. Yeah, this wouldn't have happened. That's 2:36:25.200 --> 2:36:25.640 his claim. 2:36:25.720 --> 2:36:28.600 But you know, Harris did not have an answer, because 2:36:28.640 --> 2:36:32.119 there isn't one, no, no, this is an incredibly difficult war. 2:36:32.400 --> 2:36:34.959 Right now, I will say, I think like the actual 2:36:35.000 --> 2:36:37.520 things she should have done, and the thing that Biden 2:36:37.560 --> 2:36:40.800 should have done, is say, like we are removing all 2:36:40.879 --> 2:36:44.039 extant limitations on the weapons that we ship Ukraine and 2:36:44.040 --> 2:36:45.760 how they can use them. You know, at this point 2:36:45.959 --> 2:36:48.920 they have now invaded Russian territory and occupied hundreds of 2:36:48.959 --> 2:36:51.280 miles of it. Like, you know, that was something I 2:36:51.320 --> 2:36:53.520 was interested in that she should have hit on and 2:36:53.560 --> 2:36:55.840 did not, which Trump brought up the fact that Russia 2:36:55.840 --> 2:36:58.280 has nuclear weapons in a matter of like, we can't 2:36:58.320 --> 2:37:00.360 push him too much. Who knows what they'll do, right 2:37:00.400 --> 2:37:02.760 That was clearly what he wanted people to take from 2:37:02.840 --> 2:37:05.240 him bringing up the fact that Russia has a nuclear arsenal, 2:37:05.680 --> 2:37:08.000 and Harris didn't bring up like, yeah, you know, they 2:37:08.040 --> 2:37:12.440 invaded Russia a couple of weeks back, no nukes, Like 2:37:12.959 --> 2:37:16.640 this kind of threat is clearly something that the Putin 2:37:16.680 --> 2:37:19.959 regime wants the international community to have. But when push 2:37:20.000 --> 2:37:23.400 comes to shove, he's not suicidal. And the idea that 2:37:23.560 --> 2:37:27.480 like Putin is going to start nuking people if Ukraine 2:37:27.600 --> 2:37:31.840 is able to fire missiles at Russian fuel depots or whatever, 2:37:32.440 --> 2:37:35.000 I just don't think is supported by how he's actually 2:37:35.080 --> 2:37:38.160 performed so far. But at any rate, at least Ukraine 2:37:38.280 --> 2:37:41.160 got a decent amount of time. It was one of 2:37:41.200 --> 2:37:43.760 the things that they talked about more in this debate. 2:37:44.200 --> 2:37:46.920 Gaza got one very quick question. You could tell the 2:37:47.000 --> 2:37:50.240 moderators wanted to move the fuck past it as fast 2:37:50.320 --> 2:37:53.680 as possible, and both Trump and Harris wanted to get 2:37:53.720 --> 2:37:55.600 past it, Harris more so than Trump. 2:37:55.760 --> 2:37:58.280 Harris stayed about the same statement she made at the 2:37:58.360 --> 2:38:02.760 DNC YEP she first mentioned October seventh, talked about how 2:38:02.760 --> 2:38:04.560 far too many innocent Palestinians have been killed. 2:38:04.760 --> 2:38:06.320 The war must dan. We need a cease fire deal, 2:38:06.360 --> 2:38:08.400 the hostages out. We need to chart a course for 2:38:08.440 --> 2:38:11.120 a two state solution and rebuild Gaza. We will always 2:38:11.120 --> 2:38:13.520 give Israel the ability to defend itself, especially in relation 2:38:13.560 --> 2:38:16.680 to Iran. That was most of her statement, which is 2:38:16.800 --> 2:38:19.480 nothing new from her now. Trump first tried to skip 2:38:19.520 --> 2:38:22.039 the question and just immediately talking about Russia. He then 2:38:22.120 --> 2:38:25.360 said that Kamala hates Israel and she also hates the 2:38:25.400 --> 2:38:26.160 Arab people. 2:38:26.600 --> 2:38:29.199 The whole area will be bombed. 2:38:28.840 --> 2:38:32.440 Under her presidency, saying that if he gets elected as 2:38:32.520 --> 2:38:35.240 president elect, he will solve the war. And then he 2:38:35.320 --> 2:38:37.400 just talked about like how oil pipelines are important. 2:38:37.920 --> 2:38:41.440 It was so weird interesting to me that he tried 2:38:41.520 --> 2:38:44.760 to skip this when this is one of the things 2:38:44.760 --> 2:38:47.520 she's weakest on the things. But I think it may 2:38:47.560 --> 2:38:51.680 just be that, like Americans overwhelmingly at this point do 2:38:51.800 --> 2:38:55.720 not think Israel is categorically in the wrong. They think 2:38:55.760 --> 2:38:59.600 that Israel is often in the wrong in this war 2:38:59.680 --> 2:39:02.160 and been killing a lot of innocent people. And so 2:39:02.320 --> 2:39:04.760 it may just be that he knows that, Like this 2:39:04.840 --> 2:39:07.280 isn't really a great issue for me either, Let's move 2:39:07.360 --> 2:39:10.000 back to something. But it was it was interesting to 2:39:10.120 --> 2:39:14.000 me that he didn't have any kind of concerted attack, 2:39:14.240 --> 2:39:17.840 like saying she hates Israel and Arabs is such a 2:39:18.040 --> 2:39:22.560 strange tactic to take here, and I don't see how 2:39:22.560 --> 2:39:23.880 he thought it could help him. 2:39:24.000 --> 2:39:25.480 Who are you trying to appeal to. 2:39:25.920 --> 2:39:28.600 Right, How is this supposed to get you a vote? 2:39:28.640 --> 2:39:31.039 What vote does this get you that you don't have? 2:39:31.240 --> 2:39:32.840 There's just no way. That was like what was in 2:39:32.879 --> 2:39:36.400 his campaign prep. Yeah, that was not advice, There's no way. 2:39:36.600 --> 2:39:38.840 Yeah, Kamla did have a good line here to think 2:39:38.879 --> 2:39:43.119 points towards her like recording that sec people. She said, 2:39:43.720 --> 2:39:45.560 it's well known that Trump is a weak on foreign 2:39:45.600 --> 2:39:50.240 policy and national security. He's pro dictator. Yeah, yeah, Trump 2:39:50.280 --> 2:39:52.320 just doesn't have any way to answer that, because yeah, 2:39:52.320 --> 2:39:54.440 he does want to be a dictatory. He just he 2:39:54.600 --> 2:39:58.199 just offended the president of Hungary like a few minutes ago. 2:39:58.760 --> 2:40:01.039 Yeah, like called him as strong man and said that 2:40:01.040 --> 2:40:02.040 that means he's tough. 2:40:02.360 --> 2:40:02.560 Well. 2:40:02.600 --> 2:40:04.800 He also she had a good line about how like 2:40:05.160 --> 2:40:07.199 he's not going to be tough with these people, They're 2:40:07.240 --> 2:40:09.240 just going to like say something nice to him and 2:40:09.240 --> 2:40:12.480 then he'll immediately want to be their friends. Like, yeah, 2:40:12.520 --> 2:40:15.320 that was a decent little jab. She got a few 2:40:15.320 --> 2:40:17.400 of those in more than a few. I want to 2:40:17.440 --> 2:40:19.520 talk about since we're kind of running along just a 2:40:19.520 --> 2:40:22.480 little bit. At the endier after the debate ended, I 2:40:22.560 --> 2:40:25.240 caught this. I don't think you guys did, but Trump 2:40:25.280 --> 2:40:29.240 went down to what's called the no spin zone, which 2:40:29.720 --> 2:40:31.760 is just a thing Fox did. I I think it 2:40:31.760 --> 2:40:32.840 started on the Handity Show. 2:40:32.959 --> 2:40:33.520 I caught the. 2:40:33.959 --> 2:40:37.080 Fox immediate after the debate response, do you want me 2:40:37.120 --> 2:40:39.960 to get into that, it's just one quick thing? 2:40:40.160 --> 2:40:40.520 Sure? 2:40:41.000 --> 2:40:44.520 Yeah, So immediate response from Fox was Vice President Harris 2:40:44.600 --> 2:40:47.200 was clearly well prepared, but she was never held to 2:40:47.240 --> 2:40:49.680 the fire and felt like ABC was helping her out. 2:40:50.360 --> 2:40:54.600 He went down a few cat and cat and dog 2:40:54.640 --> 2:40:59.800 holes instead of rabbit holes and not rabbit holes. That 2:41:00.160 --> 2:41:03.200 a direct thing to the eating pets thing. Make no 2:41:03.280 --> 2:41:05.760 but snake about it. Trump had a bad night. 2:41:06.160 --> 2:41:07.400 Yeah, that's interesting. 2:41:07.959 --> 2:41:11.320 Then just talked about how she was calm and prepared 2:41:11.360 --> 2:41:13.959 and whatnot. But then you know, Hannity came on and 2:41:14.040 --> 2:41:16.600 did his Hannity thing and then I'm. 2:41:16.600 --> 2:41:17.400 No spin zone. 2:41:17.840 --> 2:41:20.080 That must have been why Trump was heading down to 2:41:20.120 --> 2:41:22.119 the no spin zone. So what happened? You've got this. 2:41:22.600 --> 2:41:24.800 It's the floor of where they did the debate, so 2:41:24.879 --> 2:41:28.320 everyone is everywhere, tons of media and Trump. There's like 2:41:28.360 --> 2:41:31.280 this huge scrum around him and I'm watching on ABC 2:41:31.560 --> 2:41:34.600 and the ABC anchors just start screaming at him from 2:41:34.640 --> 2:41:38.160 like Donald Donald, mister President, trying to get him to 2:41:38.200 --> 2:41:41.039 answer their questions and like everyone is doing this, and 2:41:41.080 --> 2:41:44.400 he eventually like gives a statement where he says, well, 2:41:44.400 --> 2:41:46.560 this was my favorite debate. This was like the best 2:41:46.600 --> 2:41:50.280 debate I've ever had. I clearly won. Someone was like, 2:41:50.320 --> 2:41:52.280 so are you going to do a second debate? Harris says, 2:41:52.280 --> 2:41:54.080 she wants another debate, and he's like, well, she just 2:41:54.080 --> 2:41:56.200 wants another debate because she lost, So I don't know 2:41:56.200 --> 2:41:58.680 if I'm going to do another debate. I found that 2:41:58.920 --> 2:42:01.560 very funny. I found it kind of shameful how the 2:42:01.600 --> 2:42:04.520 ABC guys just kept howling at him to give them 2:42:04.560 --> 2:42:06.800 some attention in the middle of this very crowded room. 2:42:06.840 --> 2:42:08.320 There was no way he could hear you. He's an 2:42:08.360 --> 2:42:12.119 old man. Guys have some self fucking respect. You're supposed 2:42:12.120 --> 2:42:15.280 to be journalists, and you had a colleague down there 2:42:15.280 --> 2:42:18.560 who was actually asking him questions. But anyway, yeah, so yeah, 2:42:18.640 --> 2:42:21.720 I mean, there wasn't a ton there other than him 2:42:21.879 --> 2:42:24.400 kind of desperately trying. And one of them did make 2:42:24.400 --> 2:42:27.200 the good point that, like he is claiming, I obviously 2:42:27.280 --> 2:42:29.640 won the debate, as he heads down to the spin 2:42:29.760 --> 2:42:33.040 zone spin his loss, which is like, yeah, it's not 2:42:33.640 --> 2:42:35.879 a position of strength. No, I don't know that you 2:42:35.920 --> 2:42:37.840 would have been doing this if this had been a 2:42:37.920 --> 2:42:41.440 clean win, but it certainly wasn't and yeah, like I 2:42:41.959 --> 2:42:44.720 think tonight went pretty badly for him. 2:42:44.840 --> 2:42:48.600 Yeah, yeah, CNN was like foaming at the mouth happy 2:42:48.680 --> 2:42:53.000 or sad a CNN was thrill, They're foaming at the 2:42:53.040 --> 2:42:55.840 mouth for Kamala Harris that nobody else has done what 2:42:55.920 --> 2:42:59.240 she's been able to do. And then something else happened 2:42:59.680 --> 2:43:05.320 that made CNN and MSNBC thrilled and ruined one Trump 2:43:05.360 --> 2:43:09.360 advisor's day. I'm sure Taylor Swift endorsed Kamala Harris for 2:43:09.400 --> 2:43:13.039 president right after the debate, And if only we could 2:43:13.080 --> 2:43:16.760 have seen that Trump advisor whispered in his ear that 2:43:16.840 --> 2:43:21.199 he did not, in fact, despite that AI fake endorsement, 2:43:21.879 --> 2:43:25.720 get endorsed by childless cat lady Taylor Swift. 2:43:26.320 --> 2:43:32.520 That's so interesting to me that she couched her endorsement 2:43:32.640 --> 2:43:35.440 in I am doing this because of the AI that 2:43:35.640 --> 2:43:37.720 Trump kept retweeting. 2:43:37.640 --> 2:43:40.440 Yeah, retruthing, sorry, retruthing. 2:43:40.400 --> 2:43:43.200 Retruthing, Yes, you're right, I apologize. I didn't mean to. 2:43:43.760 --> 2:43:46.000 I'm not going to make that joke anyway, Garrison, what 2:43:46.040 --> 2:43:46.840 were you going to say? 2:43:47.840 --> 2:43:50.920 Just that that's all just retruth thing. 2:43:51.400 --> 2:43:54.080 It's interesting to me that she she did specifically like 2:43:54.240 --> 2:43:56.560 couch it and like is it's because of what he 2:43:56.600 --> 2:43:59.280 did with this AI video like that, I felt like 2:43:59.320 --> 2:44:00.800 I had a need to come out and say who 2:44:00.840 --> 2:44:01.520 I'm voting for. 2:44:01.840 --> 2:44:02.160 Yeah. 2:44:02.320 --> 2:44:04.640 Also, she has a cute cat. I hadn't seen her 2:44:04.680 --> 2:44:05.119 cat before. 2:44:05.280 --> 2:44:06.240 It's also that. 2:44:06.480 --> 2:44:09.640 But because I pay attention to Taylor Swift News, she 2:44:09.760 --> 2:44:11.760 was getting hammered a little bit in the last week 2:44:11.840 --> 2:44:15.440 because one of her good friends, Brittany Mahomes, who's the 2:44:15.440 --> 2:44:19.000 wife of Patrick Mahomes, who is Taylor Shift's boyfriends Travis 2:44:19.040 --> 2:44:23.480 Kelsey's teammate Jesus Christ You're welcome, has liked several of 2:44:23.520 --> 2:44:28.879 Trump's posts and uh truth truths. No, I don't know where. 2:44:28.680 --> 2:44:29.200 It was to be. 2:44:29.360 --> 2:44:31.000 I think it was actually think I don't I actually 2:44:31.040 --> 2:44:31.520 don't think. 2:44:31.360 --> 2:44:32.359 It was his posts. 2:44:32.520 --> 2:44:34.400 I think it was your post about him pro Trump 2:44:34.480 --> 2:44:38.280 post on Instagram very important to this election. Yes, and 2:44:38.720 --> 2:44:40.920 then and then they were seen together at the US 2:44:41.040 --> 2:44:43.879 Open and and the Girl Bosses were very unhappy with 2:44:44.000 --> 2:44:46.959 Taylor about this, and so so I think that also 2:44:47.360 --> 2:44:49.560 played into the timing. Robert, just so you know know, 2:44:49.640 --> 2:44:51.560 you're Taylor Swift. Facts by Sophie Lickterman. 2:44:51.800 --> 2:44:55.000 Sorry Sophie, well you were talking about washed up musician 2:44:55.040 --> 2:44:59.320 Taylor Swift Live. 2:45:00.000 --> 2:45:02.160 You are going to get ones are going to get 2:45:02.200 --> 2:45:02.840 on our ass. 2:45:02.920 --> 2:45:04.320 They will get our show canceled. 2:45:04.440 --> 2:45:07.360 Robert Evans, we are not in that era. I was 2:45:07.400 --> 2:45:08.080 getting in that. 2:45:08.200 --> 2:45:14.879 I was getting crucial debate take from America's most influential celebrity, 2:45:15.560 --> 2:45:17.480 Gilbert artist, Scott Adams. 2:45:17.560 --> 2:45:18.200 What do you think? 2:45:18.440 --> 2:45:21.640 No, the debate is a tie so far with lots 2:45:21.640 --> 2:45:24.760 of folks is flying a tie? Is a win for Harris? 2:45:25.800 --> 2:45:27.720 Well, that's true. I think that is true. 2:45:28.200 --> 2:45:30.560 There you go, Scott, good work. 2:45:30.920 --> 2:45:33.560 Scott comes out saying that Harris won the debate. 2:45:33.600 --> 2:45:35.920 There you go. That's great. 2:45:36.120 --> 2:45:38.640 Finally, I do I do think it's funny that Trump 2:45:38.720 --> 2:45:41.640 claimed that he didn't know about his previous comments questioning 2:45:41.680 --> 2:45:42.920 if Kamala Harris was black. 2:45:43.200 --> 2:45:44.440 That was a very. 2:45:45.520 --> 2:45:48.400 Talk about that moment. Oh, were you accused her of 2:45:48.440 --> 2:45:50.400 putting out too? 2:45:50.160 --> 2:45:51.960 What was that to talk? 2:45:52.440 --> 2:45:55.720 He was also like saying, well, the Central Park five 2:45:56.040 --> 2:45:58.160 pled guilty, So actually I think it was okay. I 2:45:58.200 --> 2:46:02.679 wanted them executed a wild, a wild. 2:46:02.440 --> 2:46:03.520 Unforced error there. 2:46:03.720 --> 2:46:04.199 Man. 2:46:04.800 --> 2:46:07.520 That whole little racism section was just crazy. 2:46:08.080 --> 2:46:10.360 Look, I will take one quick victory lap because I 2:46:10.400 --> 2:46:14.000 said after the last debate, which was a disaster in 2:46:14.080 --> 2:46:17.959 every possible way for Biden. Trump's not his soul self either. 2:46:18.080 --> 2:46:20.720 He is definitely an older man. Yeah, he was in 2:46:20.800 --> 2:46:24.240 twenty sixteen and even twenty twenty, and like, yeah, this 2:46:24.800 --> 2:46:25.000 was that. 2:46:26.240 --> 2:46:28.840 Well, hopefully this was the only presidential debate that we'll 2:46:28.879 --> 2:46:31.200 have to talk about with Kamala v. 2:46:31.240 --> 2:46:33.160 Trump. What an exciting time. 2:46:33.280 --> 2:46:36.800 I'm excited for that, for that Vance Walls debate, if 2:46:36.840 --> 2:46:37.640 that ever happens. 2:46:37.680 --> 2:46:38.160 So am I. 2:46:38.760 --> 2:46:43.800 Oh interesting that Like our reaction after this debate was like, Okay, 2:46:44.720 --> 2:46:47.120 she shouldn't do any other debates and he's going to 2:46:47.200 --> 2:46:48.920 want to do more debates. Yeah, And it was the 2:46:49.000 --> 2:46:51.200 exact opposite in their in their reactions. 2:46:51.320 --> 2:46:54.039 Yeah, I was interested by that, which. 2:46:53.879 --> 2:46:57.400 Like on MSNBC Tim Walls was like she should do 2:46:57.440 --> 2:47:00.640 one every day. I mean, she did good, she did well, 2:47:00.640 --> 2:47:03.520 But like my reaction was like, Okay, you did the job. 2:47:03.680 --> 2:47:04.360 You did the job. 2:47:05.000 --> 2:47:07.400 I do think like I have like, oh boys, I 2:47:07.480 --> 2:47:10.039 think this might be Hubris coming in here and a 2:47:10.080 --> 2:47:12.960 bad idea, but she could be right. I don't know. 2:47:13.360 --> 2:47:13.720 Yeah. 2:47:13.879 --> 2:47:17.400 Yeah, Like one of the problems is that if the 2:47:17.520 --> 2:47:21.240 election doesn't turn around as much or if something else 2:47:21.320 --> 2:47:25.199 happens that pushes momentum back towards Trump, she might need 2:47:25.280 --> 2:47:27.480 a third debate and you kind of have to You 2:47:27.600 --> 2:47:30.320 kind of can't know, like you are rolling the dice 2:47:30.360 --> 2:47:31.440 on this one way or the other. 2:47:31.640 --> 2:47:35.680 Yeah, well that was the best debate I've ever watched. Yeah, 2:47:35.720 --> 2:47:37.560 just in terms of it actually being a debate. Yeah, 2:47:37.600 --> 2:47:39.400 there was not a half dead man on screen, or 2:47:39.600 --> 2:47:42.640 yeah maybe there was that, there just wasn't two half 2:47:42.680 --> 2:47:45.600 dead men on screen, so you just. 2:47:45.600 --> 2:47:48.160 Get a good look at like, Okay, yeah, these are 2:47:48.240 --> 2:47:52.240 these are pretty decent pictures of the kinds of president 2:47:52.520 --> 2:47:53.720 that these people want to be. 2:47:54.040 --> 2:47:57.320 And like it literally comes down to he was not 2:47:57.480 --> 2:48:00.600 willing to shake her hand, and she walked across the 2:48:00.600 --> 2:48:03.360 stage to shake his hand, and that's basically what the 2:48:03.400 --> 2:48:04.000 debate was. 2:48:04.640 --> 2:48:05.519 Yeah. 2:48:05.560 --> 2:48:09.240 Anyway, anyways, this has been it could happen here. We're 2:48:09.240 --> 2:48:12.039 gonna post our source links from this episode in the 2:48:12.080 --> 2:48:14.360 episode description, so look out for that. 2:48:15.040 --> 2:48:20.080 Yeah, that's right, and you know, until next time. I 2:48:20.080 --> 2:48:21.199 don't really have any advice. 2:48:21.840 --> 2:48:43.560 Bye, Hi everyone, it's me James. This is a pick up. 2:48:43.879 --> 2:48:46.640 It's Thursday Morning. I recorded with Joseph on Wednesday night, 2:48:47.680 --> 2:48:52.480 someone destroyed or removed one of our coolers. Since then, 2:48:53.040 --> 2:48:55.200 I've received photos this morning of a place where we 2:48:55.200 --> 2:48:57.680 put it and it's gone. You can probably joy your 2:48:57.680 --> 2:49:00.520 own conclusions to how I feel about that probably tell 2:49:00.560 --> 2:49:03.600 from how I'm talking to it. I'm pretty pissed off. Also, 2:49:03.640 --> 2:49:06.600 our friend Rafael, Rafael from Los Angeles de la Desierto 2:49:07.160 --> 2:49:10.040 is without a vehicle at the moment. His truck broke. 2:49:10.640 --> 2:49:13.000 This is a person who gives every ounce of his 2:49:13.120 --> 2:49:16.760 being to rescuing migrants. He is there with them in 2:49:16.800 --> 2:49:20.400 their hardest times. When they pass away, he's there to 2:49:20.560 --> 2:49:24.600 recover their remains with dignity, to connect their families with 2:49:25.000 --> 2:49:27.480 the passing moments of their loved ones. He's there to 2:49:27.520 --> 2:49:30.120 rescue people. He rescued a woman and child on Monday. 2:49:30.440 --> 2:49:34.000 His truck's broken, and if you're able to give, I'm 2:49:34.000 --> 2:49:35.520 going to include a link in the show notes. I 2:49:35.520 --> 2:49:37.720 talk to Borderlands Relief Collective and we all agree that 2:49:37.760 --> 2:49:39.959 the most important thing right now is to get money 2:49:39.959 --> 2:49:42.520 to Raphael so he can continue doing that life saving 2:49:42.760 --> 2:49:45.640 search and rescue work as we hit record temperatures here 2:49:46.760 --> 2:49:48.760 and before it gets freezing cold in the winters. So 2:49:49.000 --> 2:49:52.640 if you can, please, please just a few bucks, like 2:49:53.160 --> 2:49:55.959 we'll buy them an old track. I'll fix it. I 2:49:56.200 --> 2:49:59.160 just don't want more people to die out there, and 2:49:59.240 --> 2:50:03.240 I think having a truck for Rafael would meaningfully make 2:50:03.280 --> 2:50:05.640 it safer for people. So if you're able to give, 2:50:05.720 --> 2:50:09.680 please give. Otherwise, please enjoy this podcast. And yeah, I 2:50:09.720 --> 2:50:12.280 understand if you can't. It's a hard time for everyone. 2:50:12.360 --> 2:50:16.320 But yeah, either way, hope if you can enjoy this podcast. Bye, 2:50:18.959 --> 2:50:22.360 Hi everyone, and welcome to the podcast today. It's me 2:50:22.600 --> 2:50:26.080 James and I'm joined by Joseph Hauser, who's a volunteer 2:50:26.080 --> 2:50:30.000 from Bordlands Relief Collective who was out with me on Sunday. 2:50:30.360 --> 2:50:33.120 We're recording this on Wednesday night and we were dropping 2:50:33.120 --> 2:50:35.320 water at the border. We wanted to describe for you 2:50:35.360 --> 2:50:37.640 a little bit of our what we saw at there. 2:50:37.760 --> 2:50:41.360 It was very hot, things were in a bad way. 2:50:41.400 --> 2:50:43.160 I think it's fair to say like despite all of 2:50:43.160 --> 2:50:45.480 our best efforts, things were really difficult there. There's only 2:50:46.120 --> 2:50:47.760 so much we can do when it's one hundred and 2:50:47.840 --> 2:50:50.160 five degrees and there are dozens of people and we're 2:50:50.160 --> 2:50:52.039 trying to get water to all of them. So welcome 2:50:52.040 --> 2:50:52.480 to the show. 2:50:52.680 --> 2:50:54.840 Yeah, thank you, James, thanks for having me on. 2:50:55.160 --> 2:50:58.640 No, I appreciate you being gay. So I think if 2:50:58.680 --> 2:51:03.800 we begin by like describing preps for people, and we 2:51:03.879 --> 2:51:07.840 first started messaging by going out on Sunday, like Saturday afternoon, right, 2:51:07.959 --> 2:51:08.640 I think. 2:51:08.920 --> 2:51:12.200 Yeah, Yeah, it was yeah, early Saturday afternoon. I had 2:51:12.920 --> 2:51:15.440 just finished getting my haircut, I'd gone and grabbed an 2:51:15.440 --> 2:51:18.720 early lunch, and I saw a message from you and 2:51:18.800 --> 2:51:21.640 one of our group chats that some of the local 2:51:21.640 --> 2:51:26.640 grocery stores were selling those big orange five gallon water 2:51:26.720 --> 2:51:30.560 jugs for like thirteen dollars, Like apparently they're trying to 2:51:30.560 --> 2:51:32.600 like get rid of their stock or something. So yeah, 2:51:32.800 --> 2:51:34.680 you and me a couple of other people were scrambling 2:51:34.720 --> 2:51:37.240 around the county trying to buy up as many of 2:51:37.280 --> 2:51:37.960 them as we could. 2:51:38.360 --> 2:51:40.560 Yeah, like I think I was a normally one hundred 2:51:40.560 --> 2:51:44.680 bucks for reference. They're like an insulated water vessel with 2:51:44.800 --> 2:51:47.920 a spout on the bottom. And given that we knew 2:51:47.959 --> 2:51:49.440 it was going to be a record temperature and it 2:51:49.440 --> 2:51:51.440 was already really hot on Saturday, we wanted to try 2:51:51.480 --> 2:51:54.320 and get folks water that was as cold as possible. 2:51:54.520 --> 2:51:57.320 So yeah, we went all around, bought all the all 2:51:57.320 --> 2:51:59.280 the ones from that chain of grocery stores that we could, 2:51:59.800 --> 2:52:03.600 and that sort of corralled them, and then we put 2:52:03.640 --> 2:52:06.520 ice in them. Right, this is the next day on Sunday, 2:52:06.600 --> 2:52:08.920 and then you and I met up and we went out. 2:52:09.080 --> 2:52:10.560 Do you want to just give people a sense of 2:52:10.800 --> 2:52:12.959 the people we met right from all over the world, 2:52:13.520 --> 2:52:15.480 the different places we met them, and then then the 2:52:15.520 --> 2:52:17.040 sort of condition that we found them in. 2:52:17.320 --> 2:52:17.640 Yeah. 2:52:17.680 --> 2:52:21.240 So the first group of people we met, we ran 2:52:21.320 --> 2:52:25.640 into four Mauritanian men. Yeah, they seemed to be in 2:52:25.680 --> 2:52:28.959 pretty good spirits. They were all traveling together. Gave them 2:52:29.680 --> 2:52:33.280 some food, gatorade, water, kind of our typical stuff that. 2:52:33.240 --> 2:52:33.840 We hand out. 2:52:34.120 --> 2:52:38.360 Yeah, and I don't know, maybe three minutes down the 2:52:38.400 --> 2:52:41.640 road from there. I don't know where the man was from, 2:52:42.320 --> 2:52:45.360 but is Asian man that did not look to be 2:52:45.400 --> 2:52:46.040 in great shape. 2:52:46.080 --> 2:52:49.040 His clothes was torn up, his face was really dirty. 2:52:50.800 --> 2:52:53.840 From what we could understand, he was saying he had 2:52:53.840 --> 2:52:56.920 been mugged, his cell phone had been stolen from him. 2:52:57.200 --> 2:53:00.600 Yeah, and he just looked in a bad ways. 2:53:00.600 --> 2:53:04.240 So we, yeah, you know, gave him water, gave him 2:53:04.280 --> 2:53:08.280 again some gatorade, and when we tried to give him 2:53:08.320 --> 2:53:11.359 some food, he was just like I can't like, I'm 2:53:12.160 --> 2:53:14.000 so like, he's just so dehydrated. 2:53:14.040 --> 2:53:16.840 He he couldn't stomach anything other than liquid. 2:53:17.200 --> 2:53:19.840 Yeah, it was like we see people all the time 2:53:19.840 --> 2:53:22.680 who were in a bad state, but it's pretty rare 2:53:22.680 --> 2:53:25.959 for people to be like I can't eat, I'm too dehydrated. 2:53:26.000 --> 2:53:28.640 I can't face food right now. Because he'd been walking 2:53:29.520 --> 2:53:33.880 for at least seven eight hours, I'm guessing, if not days, Yeah, 2:53:34.000 --> 2:53:37.080 depends how he came man, because we were just driving 2:53:37.080 --> 2:53:39.200 along and he came out of the verge like with 2:53:39.320 --> 2:53:42.440 his hands in the air, like looking just so afraid, 2:53:42.480 --> 2:53:45.160 like they'll stay with me for a while, like absolute 2:53:45.400 --> 2:53:46.160 like fear. 2:53:46.240 --> 2:53:48.760 But he had yeah, like he just looked stricken. 2:53:49.280 --> 2:53:54.920 Yeah, yeah, like just really it's just so sad to 2:53:54.959 --> 2:53:57.160 see someone like reduced to that. I'm glad we were 2:53:57.160 --> 2:54:00.640 able to help him and get him the stuff that 2:54:00.640 --> 2:54:05.440 he needed. And then from there we moved on to 2:54:05.800 --> 2:54:07.560 I'm trying to think where we went next. We went 2:54:07.600 --> 2:54:09.920 up to the top, right, we grave up to the 2:54:09.959 --> 2:54:10.600 top of them out too. 2:54:10.879 --> 2:54:13.720 Yeah, we went up to an area where Borderlands Relief 2:54:13.720 --> 2:54:16.600 Collective has set up what we call a welcome station. 2:54:17.240 --> 2:54:20.520 It's up on top of one of the smaller peaks 2:54:20.720 --> 2:54:23.120 in the area. It gives us a good view, like 2:54:23.160 --> 2:54:24.800 you can see all the way down to the actual 2:54:24.840 --> 2:54:27.840 border and stuff and kind of take note of like, okay, 2:54:27.879 --> 2:54:30.240 like we've got a group coming up here. 2:54:30.320 --> 2:54:32.120 There's some people crossing over there. 2:54:32.320 --> 2:54:36.039 And then we've primarily done that in the winter time, 2:54:36.480 --> 2:54:38.720 just to greet people with some like some hot teas, 2:54:38.879 --> 2:54:42.440 some water food, just basically things to say like hey, 2:54:42.480 --> 2:54:45.360 like you know you're here, yeah, and at least give 2:54:45.400 --> 2:54:48.320 them a friendly face, because who knows what they've you know, 2:54:48.400 --> 2:54:51.120 what everyone's been through just to get to that point. 2:54:51.400 --> 2:54:54.720 But yeah, so we dropped one of our water jugs 2:54:54.760 --> 2:54:57.000 there and then went a little bit further down the 2:54:57.080 --> 2:55:01.440 road to a gate that I think Border Patrol maintains 2:55:01.480 --> 2:55:05.280 that gate maybe cal Fire yeah as well, they keep 2:55:05.320 --> 2:55:09.160 that locked pretty much always. But we know people take 2:55:09.160 --> 2:55:12.080 that road up obviously, So we left one of the 2:55:12.160 --> 2:55:15.360 smaller water jugs we were able to pick up. I 2:55:15.440 --> 2:55:17.080 think that one was like a two or three gallon 2:55:17.560 --> 2:55:18.840 that we left there. 2:55:18.879 --> 2:55:21.360 Right, Yeah, because people people walk up for the border. 2:55:21.400 --> 2:55:24.760 I always like that spot. It's weird because sometimes you 2:55:24.800 --> 2:55:26.760 see people in your they've got a long walk and 2:55:26.800 --> 2:55:28.640 it's hot and I'm up here and there down there 2:55:28.640 --> 2:55:32.000 and that that sucks. Yeah, sometimes it's a really if 2:55:32.000 --> 2:55:33.600 it was anywhere else, it would be a beautiful view. 2:55:33.640 --> 2:55:36.280 There's a valley below with little oak grove and like 2:55:36.840 --> 2:55:39.400 sometimes you'll see like a red tailed hawk or something 2:55:39.440 --> 2:55:41.119 and it'll be like level with your eye line because 2:55:41.120 --> 2:55:44.240 you're at the top there and it's but unfortunately, yeah, 2:55:44.240 --> 2:55:47.520 it's at the border, so people have to suffer miserably there. 2:55:47.680 --> 2:55:51.400 Yeah, it's absolutely gorgeous like natural landscape, but it is 2:55:51.440 --> 2:55:54.199 like just so unbelievably deadly and unforgiving. 2:55:54.879 --> 2:55:59.240 Yeah, Like you and I have both hiked lick alongside 2:55:59.320 --> 2:56:01.039 hiking up and down the roads. We've hiked on the 2:56:01.080 --> 2:56:03.320 trails and migrants often take. And I've hiked a lot, 2:56:03.480 --> 2:56:08.080 You've hiked a lot. It's incredibly difficult going. It's difficult 2:56:08.120 --> 2:56:10.840 for us as like fit people with technical apparel and 2:56:10.879 --> 2:56:13.920 good shoes, like we often see people in flip flops 2:56:14.040 --> 2:56:17.119 or like crappy sneakers if. 2:56:17.000 --> 2:56:19.360 They have footwear at all at that point. 2:56:19.640 --> 2:56:21.960 Yeah, I remember a number of the people we ran 2:56:22.000 --> 2:56:25.240 into didn't have shoes like later in the day. Yeah, 2:56:25.400 --> 2:56:27.320 and I've definitely given away shoes before and then we 2:56:27.360 --> 2:56:29.560 have some of my drug. But I'm a giant person. 2:56:30.120 --> 2:56:35.400 Everyone it's like penguin flip of feet, so I wasn't 2:56:35.400 --> 2:56:38.920 able to help everyone. And so yeah, we went from there, 2:56:38.959 --> 2:56:41.440 we dropped another We hiked to water in a little 2:56:41.480 --> 2:56:43.680 bit because the road was too narrow to turn the 2:56:43.680 --> 2:56:47.640 truck around, and we dropped that in another gate. And 2:56:47.680 --> 2:56:50.920 then I think at that point things were pretty normal, 2:56:51.160 --> 2:56:55.080 and that was like a normal water drop day, or 2:56:55.400 --> 2:56:58.000 a driving water drop day, I should say, not a 2:56:58.040 --> 2:57:00.480 hiking one. Do you want to describe what we saw 2:57:00.480 --> 2:57:02.000 at the next place you went to, because I think 2:57:02.040 --> 2:57:05.680 that was when both of us realized that like things 2:57:05.680 --> 2:57:07.680 were going to be worse in normal and people needed 2:57:07.680 --> 2:57:09.480 as much help as we could possibly get in. 2:57:09.720 --> 2:57:12.520 Yeah. So basically, once we finished up in that. 2:57:12.480 --> 2:57:15.800 Area, we went from where we were, we went a 2:57:15.840 --> 2:57:18.080 little bit further south. I don't know, I was like 2:57:18.120 --> 2:57:20.280 maybe a ten minute drive, you think. 2:57:20.320 --> 2:57:22.720 Once we got back to the main road, yeah, we 2:57:22.840 --> 2:57:26.920 ran into a group of three men. 2:57:27.800 --> 2:57:32.480 Believe they were more Aitanian again, a different group of men. Yeah, 2:57:32.520 --> 2:57:34.199 when we came across them, they were kind of walking 2:57:34.400 --> 2:57:38.440 almost like just middle of the lane on the road. Yeah, yeah, 2:57:38.480 --> 2:57:40.600 which was kind of like keyed us in that, like, oh, 2:57:40.640 --> 2:57:42.720 like we should stop and check on these guys. 2:57:43.400 --> 2:57:47.640 They overall seemed to be doing pretty well, Like. 2:57:47.560 --> 2:57:50.920 They were obviously very tired exhausted from their journey, but 2:57:51.480 --> 2:57:54.400 they were telling us that, you know, like oh we've 2:57:54.400 --> 2:57:57.240 got another two, We've got two more they fell behind. 2:57:58.160 --> 2:58:00.760 So we gave these guys you know again the normal 2:58:00.800 --> 2:58:04.000 like food, gatorade, water, checked in with them to see 2:58:04.000 --> 2:58:06.520 if they had like any wounds or anything we could treat, 2:58:06.720 --> 2:58:10.880 and they seemed pretty good. So we hung out in 2:58:10.920 --> 2:58:14.080 that area for I don't know, it was maybe five 2:58:14.480 --> 2:58:18.440 ten minutes max. Before we saw the people that they 2:58:18.480 --> 2:58:21.960 had mentioned were further down the road. So another two 2:58:21.959 --> 2:58:26.160 guys came up. We again gave them what supplies they 2:58:26.160 --> 2:58:29.160 seemed like they needed. The The fifth guy in that 2:58:29.200 --> 2:58:32.360 group seemed to be in the worst shape of all 2:58:32.400 --> 2:58:35.680 of them. Yeah, he was upright and you know, like 2:58:35.760 --> 2:58:38.600 moving under his own power, but like you just kind 2:58:38.600 --> 2:58:41.879 of see that little wobble in his step. 2:58:42.560 --> 2:58:45.080 So we kind of took some extra time with him. 2:58:45.879 --> 2:58:48.240 I believe we got him like a little ice pack 2:58:48.400 --> 2:58:49.840 to put on the back of his neck, just to 2:58:49.840 --> 2:58:54.000 try and bring his body temperature down, and then kind 2:58:54.040 --> 2:58:57.240 of just got that. All five of them regrouped together 2:58:57.680 --> 2:59:03.600 under a tree some shade, and then from there we 2:59:03.640 --> 2:59:06.680 went I don't know, maybe we got maybe three hundred 2:59:06.720 --> 2:59:11.720 feet down the road and we came across a group 2:59:11.800 --> 2:59:15.080 of five I believe they were all Spanish speakers. 2:59:15.280 --> 2:59:17.120 I didn't catch where they were from. 2:59:17.840 --> 2:59:21.760 Yeah, I think once it from Colombia. I can't remember 2:59:21.760 --> 2:59:23.279 where the whole group were from, though. 2:59:24.280 --> 2:59:25.840 But that was so far. 2:59:25.879 --> 2:59:29.879 Everyone we had run into was by a parent's middle 2:59:29.879 --> 2:59:33.880 aged men I shouldn't say middle age, like young adult. Yeah, yeah, 2:59:33.920 --> 2:59:37.280 like thirty thirty five maybe, like you know, somewhere in 2:59:37.320 --> 2:59:38.000 that range. 2:59:38.440 --> 2:59:38.640 Yeah. 2:59:38.760 --> 2:59:41.720 Yeah, they could be anywhere from like twenties to thirties. Yeah. 2:59:41.840 --> 2:59:44.560 Like I think some of that is because it was 2:59:44.600 --> 2:59:47.080 such a difficult day that like some folks who have 2:59:47.160 --> 2:59:49.320 children or older people maybe decided not to make the 2:59:49.400 --> 2:59:52.000 journey that day. Yeah, they had that choice. But this, yeah, 2:59:52.000 --> 2:59:53.600 this group was yeah, this. 2:59:53.560 --> 2:59:57.280 Group of five we I want to say it was 2:59:58.120 --> 3:00:00.360 three men in that age range. 3:00:00.720 --> 3:00:00.800 Uh. 3:00:01.080 --> 3:00:04.800 There was a woman with them, and then a kid that, 3:00:04.840 --> 3:00:07.800 if I had to guess, probably fifteen at the oldest. 3:00:07.879 --> 3:00:10.680 Like I seemed to remember, like clocking that he had 3:00:10.720 --> 3:00:12.680 braces on, like he just he seemed young. 3:00:13.000 --> 3:00:15.280 Yeah, he seemed like a child. Yeah, it wasn't like 3:00:15.320 --> 3:00:15.960 a young man. 3:00:16.480 --> 3:00:19.400 And so you know, we got off to the side 3:00:19.440 --> 3:00:23.119 of the road again, we're giving them food, water, all 3:00:23.160 --> 3:00:25.440 that again, like this is all off. 3:00:25.360 --> 3:00:26.720 The main road for that area. 3:00:27.520 --> 3:00:31.800 And like as we're interacting with these groups, you know, 3:00:31.840 --> 3:00:36.120 like several border patrol cars are just zooming passed like yeah, 3:00:36.280 --> 3:00:37.199 just crazy. 3:00:37.280 --> 3:00:38.280 But nobody. 3:00:38.320 --> 3:00:41.879 Nobody's stopping the check in and nobody's you know, like 3:00:42.360 --> 3:00:47.360 you know, stopping them from big finger quotes here, invading right. 3:00:47.720 --> 3:00:51.000 Getting getting on a bus as like people are going 3:00:51.000 --> 3:00:53.720 so mad about us. We oh before they got mad 3:00:53.760 --> 3:00:54.640 about Haitian people. 3:00:54.720 --> 3:00:58.080 But yeah, so we we worked with that group. Nobody 3:00:58.400 --> 3:01:04.640 really seemed to be in dire straits there. So we're 3:01:04.680 --> 3:01:09.280 working towards a trailhead which we could actually see from 3:01:09.400 --> 3:01:12.760 where we were working with this group of five and 3:01:13.400 --> 3:01:16.320 there's like a little bridge there and we just kind 3:01:16.320 --> 3:01:18.520 of see some heads popping up. 3:01:18.680 --> 3:01:21.439 Yeah, and we're like, oh, I think you have my binoculars. 3:01:21.879 --> 3:01:23.160 We were like checking to see. 3:01:23.080 --> 3:01:25.040 Yeah, and we're like oh, like we like we need 3:01:25.080 --> 3:01:25.879 to get over there. 3:01:26.600 --> 3:01:30.400 So we get back in the truck after we get 3:01:30.400 --> 3:01:32.280 them kind of you know, as settled as we can, 3:01:32.600 --> 3:01:35.600 and we get over to this trailhead, which. 3:01:35.480 --> 3:01:39.279 Is like, really I think where the day because. 3:01:39.080 --> 3:01:40.360 Like you said, like it was kind of a normal 3:01:40.440 --> 3:01:42.920 day up until we got to this trailhead and then 3:01:42.959 --> 3:01:44.600 things kind of seemed to take a turn. 3:01:45.360 --> 3:01:48.440 Yeah, talking of taking a turn, why don't we take 3:01:48.480 --> 3:01:51.200 a turn to advertisements and then come back. 3:01:51.240 --> 3:01:52.879 That's why they pay you the big bucks. 3:01:53.320 --> 3:01:54.200 That I see. 3:01:54.320 --> 3:02:08.680 You see that no one saw that comes. All right, 3:02:08.840 --> 3:02:11.760 we are back. I hope that you haven't bought anything. 3:02:11.959 --> 3:02:13.920 You could give money to board Lands Relief Collective of 3:02:13.959 --> 3:02:14.320 Google lip. 3:02:14.440 --> 3:02:17.000 Oh, yeah, that would be really nice. I would appreciate that. 3:02:17.920 --> 3:02:20.000 Yeah, why would I do that? 3:02:20.200 --> 3:02:24.720 Don't go to Chumber because you know, Yeah, so we 3:02:24.800 --> 3:02:27.480 got over there and like that location, just to give 3:02:27.520 --> 3:02:31.000 people like paint a picture. There's the road which we 3:02:31.000 --> 3:02:34.160 were traveling on, and then parallel to that, parallel to 3:02:34.160 --> 3:02:36.320 it ninety degrees as a dirt road which we pulled 3:02:36.320 --> 3:02:39.840 into the road that we were traveling on was going 3:02:39.879 --> 3:02:42.280 over a creek which is dry at this time of year. 3:02:42.320 --> 3:02:46.000 So there's a bridge and it was under that bridge 3:02:46.040 --> 3:02:48.520 that people were hiding from the sun, and so that's 3:02:48.520 --> 3:02:51.160 why we couldn't see them until we were very close. 3:02:51.600 --> 3:02:55.200 And yeah, describe what we saw there, because that was 3:02:55.200 --> 3:02:58.120 when I was like, oh shit, that was when we 3:02:58.160 --> 3:03:01.840 started to run out of enough bottles for people to 3:03:01.920 --> 3:03:03.680 drink out of. So we had to like just stop 3:03:04.120 --> 3:03:07.840 opening like cans of energy drink and beer and stuff 3:03:07.920 --> 3:03:10.320 or whatever we had just to use them as bottles. 3:03:10.520 --> 3:03:14.840 Yeah, So we we pull off the road and underneath 3:03:14.879 --> 3:03:18.320 that bridge. I mean I didn't do like a head 3:03:18.360 --> 3:03:20.720 count necessarily or anything, but there was a group of 3:03:20.760 --> 3:03:24.280 like fifteen twenty at least. Yeah, you know, again like 3:03:24.360 --> 3:03:27.480 mostly men in that like twenty to thirty age range, 3:03:27.800 --> 3:03:31.280 but there were moms with kids and there just there 3:03:31.280 --> 3:03:34.480 were so many people. We at that point we had 3:03:35.560 --> 3:03:38.520 you know, some water bottles, some gatorades. We had that 3:03:38.640 --> 3:03:42.120 one five gallon jug with the ice water in it 3:03:42.240 --> 3:03:44.720 left that we were going to take up to the 3:03:44.720 --> 3:03:49.400 top of this pass, and we just like by the 3:03:49.440 --> 3:03:53.520 time we got done getting every one water, we ran 3:03:53.560 --> 3:03:55.879 out of water in the jug. I think we had 3:03:55.920 --> 3:03:58.400 just about cleared out all the food we had. 3:03:58.520 --> 3:04:00.480 We had no more Gator aids. 3:04:00.480 --> 3:04:03.280 We were scrounging around in the back of your truck 3:04:03.400 --> 3:04:07.520 trying to just find vessels essentially to give people what 3:04:07.640 --> 3:04:08.959 liquid we could, you. 3:04:08.920 --> 3:04:11.600 Know, like get at shake out of the ice. 3:04:12.240 --> 3:04:13.920 Yeah, it was not good. 3:04:14.120 --> 3:04:20.560 And so then that was when there was one young 3:04:20.600 --> 3:04:24.120 man I believe he said he was from Jordan. He 3:04:24.280 --> 3:04:26.760 was trying to get our attention and telling us, you know, 3:04:26.760 --> 3:04:29.520 like I've got two like I've got family up there too, 3:04:29.600 --> 3:04:32.480 two family And he keeps pointing up up the mountain 3:04:32.640 --> 3:04:36.840 toward the pass, saying he's got two family members up there. 3:04:37.320 --> 3:04:41.640 And then another man I didn't catch where he was from, 3:04:41.720 --> 3:04:44.080 but he was telling us there were two family members 3:04:44.240 --> 3:04:46.760 of first man. And then there was another three men 3:04:47.520 --> 3:04:50.760 traveling up there and they were trying to indicate to 3:04:50.840 --> 3:04:55.480 us that one of them had heart problems. 3:04:55.959 --> 3:04:58.360 Yeah, it was how they how they put it. 3:04:59.000 --> 3:05:01.000 So we kept telling like, hey, like you know, we're 3:05:01.560 --> 3:05:05.080 we're going to go help them, but the gate to 3:05:05.240 --> 3:05:09.359 access that the road that goes up that pass was locked. 3:05:10.360 --> 3:05:13.120 So first we had to figure out like who we 3:05:13.160 --> 3:05:17.080 could contact to get through the gate. And then that 3:05:17.640 --> 3:05:20.560 poor guy that you know said his family members were 3:05:20.640 --> 3:05:24.600 up on that mountain like he desperately, desperately wanted us 3:05:24.640 --> 3:05:27.160 to drive him up there with us, but we had 3:05:27.160 --> 3:05:28.959 to keep telling him, like we just we. 3:05:28.840 --> 3:05:31.600 Can't, Like it is so illegal for us to put 3:05:31.600 --> 3:05:34.200 you in a vehicle. Yeah, thank you anywhere. 3:05:34.680 --> 3:05:37.640 Yeah, Like at least the interpretation of the Lower's border 3:05:37.640 --> 3:05:40.080 patrols easy is that we would be like trafficking them 3:05:40.200 --> 3:05:43.440 at that point. And like maybe one could defend it 3:05:43.440 --> 3:05:46.040 in court if the person was like bleeding out or 3:05:46.160 --> 3:05:49.640 you know something, but pretty much that is something that 3:05:49.680 --> 3:05:50.320 we can't do. 3:05:50.800 --> 3:05:53.760 Yeah, we've been out on a water drop together and 3:05:53.959 --> 3:05:57.760 just handing out food and water to people on foot 3:05:57.959 --> 3:06:00.959 next to the truck, and border patrol has like an 3:06:00.959 --> 3:06:04.160 agent has threatened to write us up for trafficking. 3:06:05.080 --> 3:06:07.840 Yeah, yeah, in this particular student, which like I I 3:06:07.879 --> 3:06:10.880 don't really care. This agent can go fuck himself. Like 3:06:11.640 --> 3:06:15.120 we were. This girl was probably four years old. I 3:06:15.200 --> 3:06:19.080 would say, I don't know exactly, I didn't ask, wasn't 3:06:19.120 --> 3:06:20.960 the most important thing at the time. She was with 3:06:21.000 --> 3:06:24.080 her mother. They were both from Guinea and a Nigerian woman. 3:06:24.400 --> 3:06:26.600 Like I speak French, so I was speaking to the 3:06:26.600 --> 3:06:30.560 Guineaian family and like I remember you were trying to 3:06:30.560 --> 3:06:32.279 feed the little girl right she had. 3:06:32.360 --> 3:06:35.760 Yeah, another another volunteer and I were trying to feed 3:06:35.760 --> 3:06:38.840 her some trail mix I had, and she she wouldn't 3:06:38.840 --> 3:06:41.680 touch any of it but the but the dried banana 3:06:41.760 --> 3:06:44.840 chips that were in there. So yeah, like actually, ever 3:06:44.879 --> 3:06:47.400 since then, anytime I make trail mix for drops, I 3:06:47.400 --> 3:06:50.400 always make sure that I've got dry banana trips and 3:06:50.480 --> 3:06:52.440 they're just you know, in case there's another kid that 3:06:52.440 --> 3:06:53.560 that's all they'll eat. 3:06:54.080 --> 3:06:57.920 Yeah, And I remember like she wasn't very responsive. I've 3:06:57.959 --> 3:06:59.600 been talking to her mom, and her mother's feet were 3:06:59.600 --> 3:07:04.920 in a very bad way, like immersion foot. And after 3:07:04.920 --> 3:07:07.080 a while we were like, this little girl is like 3:07:07.640 --> 3:07:11.080 not very talkative at all, like maybe to a degree 3:07:11.080 --> 3:07:13.760 that we should be concerned. And I think we both 3:07:14.320 --> 3:07:16.560 were all kind of quickly realized she was very cold, 3:07:17.040 --> 3:07:21.879 like potentially hypothermic. I remember having there. I tried to 3:07:21.920 --> 3:07:25.720 record some of this for the podcast, but it's all fun, 3:07:25.800 --> 3:07:27.680 it's all. I had to wrap her up in a 3:07:27.680 --> 3:07:30.360 miler blanket such that like I was sitting behind her 3:07:30.440 --> 3:07:33.560 so that she would get like warm from me, right 3:07:34.000 --> 3:07:36.440 and sit my jacket so she would get warm from me. 3:07:37.360 --> 3:07:40.760 And obviously the whole fucking podcast bit is my love 3:07:40.760 --> 3:07:43.000 blanket noise, Which is a shame because at that point 3:07:43.320 --> 3:07:47.439 a border patrol agent arrived started swearing at us, accusing 3:07:47.480 --> 3:07:51.680 us of trafficking, just like as if this little girl 3:07:51.760 --> 3:07:55.080 wasn't having the worst day of her life anyway. Yeah, 3:07:55.520 --> 3:07:57.920 just like someone who's paid by my taxes and your 3:07:57.920 --> 3:08:00.640 taxes turns up to scream at the only people who 3:08:00.680 --> 3:08:02.680 are helping her that day, and her right like it 3:08:02.840 --> 3:08:06.080 scared them. And eventually one of our friends was able 3:08:06.080 --> 3:08:10.800 to de escalate that situation and those people got taken 3:08:10.840 --> 3:08:13.840 and hopefully protested, and I hope that they are living 3:08:14.080 --> 3:08:16.800 a happy life in the US, yeah for sure, But. 3:08:16.760 --> 3:08:18.560 Yeah, that was a bad day. 3:08:19.440 --> 3:08:23.080 So yeah, we as you said, right, we can't take 3:08:23.080 --> 3:08:26.280 this guy with us back up the hill, and we're 3:08:27.640 --> 3:08:29.600 now trying to get so it's about ten kilometers to 3:08:29.640 --> 3:08:32.280 the top, and it's ten kilometers and I have no 3:08:32.360 --> 3:08:34.480 idea how it's a lot of climbing, Like it's it's 3:08:34.560 --> 3:08:38.560 ten kilometers all uphill, and so like it's not really 3:08:38.600 --> 3:08:41.480 possible for us to hike up that road and get 3:08:41.520 --> 3:08:44.840 to these people who need help in a timely manner, 3:08:44.920 --> 3:08:47.120 right in a manner that, so we need to drive. 3:08:48.800 --> 3:08:51.240 I think in the end we ended up calling nine 3:08:51.280 --> 3:08:54.039 one one, Yeah, I think that was what we also 3:08:54.040 --> 3:08:57.240 called a friend who personally contacted Yeah. 3:08:57.280 --> 3:09:01.280 Then yeah, somebody got Calfi out for us. 3:09:01.320 --> 3:09:03.920 They opened the gate kind of let us take the 3:09:04.000 --> 3:09:06.880 lead up that dirt road. Yeah. 3:09:06.879 --> 3:09:09.080 I thought that was really cool of them, Like it 3:09:09.120 --> 3:09:10.800 would have been easy for them to be like, yeah, 3:09:10.840 --> 3:09:14.560 we're here to save you and like credit where it's 3:09:14.560 --> 3:09:16.000 to you. They were like, your truck is going to 3:09:16.040 --> 3:09:18.480 go fast enough, fire rangine, you guys should go first. 3:09:19.160 --> 3:09:19.560 Yeah. 3:09:19.600 --> 3:09:22.760 So we get a portion of the way up and 3:09:22.879 --> 3:09:26.040 we run into the group of three men that we 3:09:26.040 --> 3:09:30.000 were told were there and were At this point, I 3:09:30.240 --> 3:09:32.960 think is when we realized like, oh shit, like the 3:09:33.000 --> 3:09:36.560 only water we have on our that we have at 3:09:36.560 --> 3:09:41.440 all is our personal water. So yeah, I actually I 3:09:41.480 --> 3:09:45.240 have water bottle right here next to me. I I 3:09:45.280 --> 3:09:48.640 like was literally pouring what I had left into their. 3:09:48.520 --> 3:09:49.960 Water bottle for them. 3:09:50.200 --> 3:09:50.720 Yeah. 3:09:50.879 --> 3:09:53.640 Luckily this is like an insulated thing, so it's cold 3:09:54.160 --> 3:09:56.560 for them. But you know, we're trying to figure out 3:09:56.600 --> 3:09:58.680 like shit, like when we get to when we find 3:09:58.920 --> 3:10:02.080 these two women, the family members, the guy kept talking 3:10:02.080 --> 3:10:03.520 about like yeah, what. 3:10:03.440 --> 3:10:04.720 Are like, what are we going to do? 3:10:04.800 --> 3:10:04.959 Then? 3:10:05.080 --> 3:10:08.560 Like I think we ended up giving when we came 3:10:08.600 --> 3:10:12.400 across them further up the mountain at that point, like 3:10:12.400 --> 3:10:16.279 we basically just had my backup now Gene. Yeah left, 3:10:16.360 --> 3:10:19.640 So we were like, hey, we want you to to 3:10:19.760 --> 3:10:23.000 take this, Like, we just gave them the full now 3:10:23.080 --> 3:10:25.959 Gene and tried our best to explain to them that 3:10:25.959 --> 3:10:27.840 we were going to go to the top make sure 3:10:27.959 --> 3:10:31.600 that there wasn't anybody else up there, and then we 3:10:31.600 --> 3:10:33.879 were going to come back down to check on them. 3:10:34.640 --> 3:10:35.680 So we do that. 3:10:35.720 --> 3:10:38.280 We go up to the top where you and some 3:10:38.400 --> 3:10:42.440 other volunteers have built like a little shade structure to 3:10:42.480 --> 3:10:45.199 try and just give people some relief. 3:10:45.640 --> 3:10:45.879 Yeah. 3:10:46.000 --> 3:10:49.040 I didn't built that one. I built the that previous 3:10:49.080 --> 3:10:53.560 one that got torn down. Okay, bye. Some type of 3:10:53.640 --> 3:10:57.720 cop lovely yeah great, really nice, really help. It wasn't 3:10:57.720 --> 3:10:59.760 actually a cop, to be fat I'm pretty sure it was. 3:11:00.280 --> 3:11:04.200 It was some other federal agency BLM or BP or someone. 3:11:05.360 --> 3:11:07.840 But so when we got up to the top, we 3:11:07.879 --> 3:11:11.720 didn't see anybody else. We couldn't find anybody up there. 3:11:11.800 --> 3:11:15.120 We were doing our best to try and use our 3:11:15.200 --> 3:11:16.200 language skills to. 3:11:17.120 --> 3:11:20.440 Yeah, we were just shouting in various languages to see 3:11:20.440 --> 3:11:21.400 if anyone needed help. 3:11:21.920 --> 3:11:25.760 Then the CalFire guys met back up with us up there, 3:11:26.680 --> 3:11:29.160 you know, figured out like hey, like you know, we 3:11:29.160 --> 3:11:32.959 we're not seeing anybody else. So you and I decided 3:11:34.280 --> 3:11:36.360 that basically all we could do at that point was 3:11:36.400 --> 3:11:41.760 go back down the mountain and go further south to 3:11:41.920 --> 3:11:44.760 a little town that's like pretty much right on the border. 3:11:44.800 --> 3:11:47.080 I think, yeah, it's literally a border crossing. 3:11:47.240 --> 3:11:50.400 Yeah, because we ended up, we drove down, checked in 3:11:50.400 --> 3:11:53.240 on the women, the two women that were traveling down. 3:11:54.000 --> 3:11:56.280 They seemed to be doing about as okay as they 3:11:56.320 --> 3:11:57.640 could at the time. 3:11:58.160 --> 3:11:58.920 Again, it's like I. 3:11:58.879 --> 3:12:02.119 Don't know, one hundred and five, Yeah, completely exposed up there. 3:12:02.480 --> 3:12:04.800 Yeah, there's no tree, c co a, you're not getting 3:12:04.800 --> 3:12:05.400 any shape. 3:12:05.600 --> 3:12:06.240 I don't I. 3:12:06.160 --> 3:12:09.600 Don't remember it being particularly windy at all, so it's just. 3:12:09.560 --> 3:12:11.480 Like hot still still. 3:12:12.040 --> 3:12:17.680 Yeah, But we get down the mountain kind of give everyone, 3:12:18.080 --> 3:12:21.240 like the big group that's there under the tree at 3:12:21.240 --> 3:12:24.640 the bridge at the bottom heads up of what we're doing. 3:12:25.160 --> 3:12:28.120 We go into this little town and like again like 3:12:28.560 --> 3:12:32.160 tiny little place, like it's basically from what I saw 3:12:32.320 --> 3:12:36.880 just parking lots and then like a gas station and 3:12:36.920 --> 3:12:37.760 a border crossing. 3:12:38.200 --> 3:12:39.880 Yeah, that's it. 3:12:39.959 --> 3:12:43.120 We went into this gas station and bought I think 3:12:43.200 --> 3:12:45.400 like sixteen gallons worth of water. 3:12:46.200 --> 3:12:48.120 Yeah, they had to go round the back to get 3:12:48.120 --> 3:12:50.800 the rest of the water. Like we took all the 3:12:50.959 --> 3:12:52.320 gallons jugs they had. 3:12:52.720 --> 3:12:55.080 They had one of those little like displays of like 3:12:55.360 --> 3:12:57.280 I don't know, I think it was like little keebler 3:12:57.440 --> 3:12:59.280 like cheese cracker sandwiches. 3:12:59.320 --> 3:13:00.840 Like we just bought the whole splay. 3:13:02.000 --> 3:13:06.960 Yeah, just to try and give people some some more food. 3:13:07.320 --> 3:13:09.520 And then from there, like we just high tailed it 3:13:09.600 --> 3:13:13.040 back to the bridge, like distributed out some more water, 3:13:14.040 --> 3:13:16.160 checked in with them again, just like explained like we're 3:13:16.160 --> 3:13:19.879 going back up. And as we were going back up 3:13:19.920 --> 3:13:23.840 the mountain, we started seeing these like little rain drops 3:13:23.879 --> 3:13:28.360 hit in our windshield. Yeah, like oh that that can't 3:13:28.360 --> 3:13:31.600 be good, you know, so we continue up. When we 3:13:31.920 --> 3:13:34.360 when we found the two women, they were both just 3:13:34.440 --> 3:13:37.160 kind of lying in some shade just on the road. 3:13:37.760 --> 3:13:37.960 Yeah. 3:13:38.000 --> 3:13:39.240 It was not a good scene. 3:13:39.560 --> 3:13:42.000 Yeah, and so we got out. 3:13:42.120 --> 3:13:45.520 We mixed I think it was we got one gallon 3:13:45.560 --> 3:13:48.160 of cold water and then we took another of the 3:13:48.160 --> 3:13:50.520 gallon jugs and just mixed up like a full thing 3:13:50.640 --> 3:13:53.760 with some gatorade powder we found in your truck. Yeah, 3:13:53.959 --> 3:13:58.280 and just kind of sat down with them, and then 3:13:59.120 --> 3:14:01.959 we got help well with some translation over the phone, 3:14:02.240 --> 3:14:05.160 trying to like talk to these women figure out like 3:14:05.480 --> 3:14:08.280 what exactly was going on, because one of them kept 3:14:08.280 --> 3:14:09.640 like kind of pointing to her chest. 3:14:10.440 --> 3:14:13.760 Yeah, and she was doing the like thump thump thump, yeah, 3:14:13.800 --> 3:14:15.000 which is concerning. 3:14:15.320 --> 3:14:15.520 Yeah. 3:14:15.640 --> 3:14:17.039 You know, like through through. 3:14:16.879 --> 3:14:20.000 The help we got translating over the phone, just basically 3:14:20.040 --> 3:14:24.120 explained like we like we just absolutely cannot transport to 3:14:24.240 --> 3:14:26.520 like we we want nothing more in this world than 3:14:26.560 --> 3:14:29.360 to be able to take you down the mountain, but 3:14:29.680 --> 3:14:30.520 we just can't. 3:14:30.800 --> 3:14:31.039 Yeah. 3:14:31.200 --> 3:14:34.680 Like I would very happily put those ladies in my 3:14:34.800 --> 3:14:38.519 truck and driven them down, Like that would have considerably 3:14:38.560 --> 3:14:39.480 improved my day. 3:14:39.680 --> 3:14:39.960 Yeah. 3:14:40.200 --> 3:14:44.520 I did do that, because it is fucking heartbreaking trying 3:14:44.560 --> 3:14:47.240 to tell someone they have to keep walking when they're 3:14:47.280 --> 3:14:51.400 maybe halfway down and they're like just lying there, exhausted, 3:14:51.520 --> 3:14:54.320 ready to Yeah I don't know what, just give up, 3:14:54.360 --> 3:14:59.120 but yeah, it fucking sucks. It sucks. We now know 3:14:59.440 --> 3:15:03.880 that several people died that day and the day before 3:15:04.480 --> 3:15:07.360 and the day after. I guess I don't know exactly 3:15:07.440 --> 3:15:11.280 how many because the medical examiner hasn't confirmed, and I'm 3:15:11.280 --> 3:15:13.680 not going to say their names or really much about 3:15:13.680 --> 3:15:17.520 the location beyond that because I want to respect the 3:15:17.560 --> 3:15:21.520 privacy of their remains and their family, and so until 3:15:21.560 --> 3:15:25.720 we hear from them, I won't. But like it's I 3:15:25.800 --> 3:15:27.680 found out some people had died in the vicinity of 3:15:27.720 --> 3:15:31.280 where we were, and I don't know exactly where it's 3:15:31.280 --> 3:15:33.200 people died. I don't know who they were, but like 3:15:33.840 --> 3:15:36.000 it's a really fucking hard thing to say with Like 3:15:36.360 --> 3:15:39.240 I think those people we helped were probably okay. I 3:15:39.280 --> 3:15:43.679 think between the fact that as we'll get onto a 3:15:43.720 --> 3:15:48.040 giant thunderstorm soaks soaks them to the degree that we 3:15:48.080 --> 3:15:51.080 had to give them like ponchos, and then but just 3:15:51.120 --> 3:15:53.320 having to deal with like I would happily I have 3:15:53.400 --> 3:15:54.959 driven up and down that road all day, but people 3:15:55.000 --> 3:15:56.800 in my truck wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest. 3:15:57.560 --> 3:16:02.760 We're not not able to and somebody journey ended in tragedy, 3:16:03.080 --> 3:16:06.920 and like it's I don't know, Like we we try 3:16:06.920 --> 3:16:10.400 our best rather a lot, and it's not we do 3:16:10.760 --> 3:16:12.800 more than enough, Like I'm not saying that, like I say, 3:16:12.800 --> 3:16:14.840 it's own any way on us, but like we would 3:16:14.879 --> 3:16:17.120 love to do more if they would let us, and 3:16:17.560 --> 3:16:19.640 like shit like that, like not began to put people 3:16:19.640 --> 3:16:22.800 in the vehicle. It's just it's just hard to live with, 3:16:24.040 --> 3:16:27.480 you know, when you're sitting and bed at night or whatever, Yeah, 3:16:27.560 --> 3:16:29.600 having your dinner Like it sucks. 3:16:29.800 --> 3:16:33.240 But yeah, because like there's I said, I feel like 3:16:33.320 --> 3:16:36.879 there's this picture like when you talk about San Diego 3:16:37.000 --> 3:16:39.680 or just kind of southern California in general, it's oh, 3:16:39.760 --> 3:16:41.240 like it's sunny beaches. 3:16:40.920 --> 3:16:43.840 It's nice days, like it's mild weather year round. 3:16:44.040 --> 3:16:46.720 But as we've said multiple times at this point, like 3:16:46.760 --> 3:16:49.160 it gets fucking hot. It gets It was one hundred 3:16:49.200 --> 3:16:52.600 and five degrees on that mountain. A thunderstorm rolled in, 3:16:52.680 --> 3:16:55.480 and in a matter of I don't know, twenty thirty minutes, 3:16:55.879 --> 3:16:58.680 our conversation went from like, oh, like I hope they 3:16:58.959 --> 3:17:00.320 are you know, are not coming down with a heat 3:17:00.360 --> 3:17:02.560 illness or you know, gonna get heat stroke, to like, 3:17:03.360 --> 3:17:06.920 oh shit, like are they gonna go hyperthermic? Like what 3:17:06.240 --> 3:17:08.560 what do we have to get them warm? We're trying 3:17:08.600 --> 3:17:10.400 to cool them down. Now, we're trying to warm them up. Like, 3:17:10.560 --> 3:17:12.880 what kind of cruel joke is this? 3:17:13.800 --> 3:17:16.840 Yeah, like it does seem like this the most perverse 3:17:16.920 --> 3:17:20.879 thing to be. Like then worried about fucking lightning on 3:17:20.920 --> 3:17:24.000 the other side of the valley, you know, like it 3:17:24.040 --> 3:17:27.039 was insane just from like we then we carried on 3:17:27.120 --> 3:17:29.199 up the mountain, dropped some water, and then returned down 3:17:29.240 --> 3:17:32.280 to check on these women again. And when we were 3:17:32.280 --> 3:17:34.000 at the top of the mountain, we could look down 3:17:34.080 --> 3:17:37.440 on the thunderstorm. Yeah, see it beneath us. And then yeah, 3:17:37.480 --> 3:17:41.040 we drove into it, and like, just what an apocalyptic 3:17:42.080 --> 3:17:45.200 scenario to be in, you know, like it's jumping with rain, 3:17:45.800 --> 3:17:49.800 triple digit temperatures and or you have the only thing 3:17:49.840 --> 3:17:53.360 you're allowed to do is walk, like it was difficult. 3:17:53.400 --> 3:17:57.480 And then like, I guess the last thing the last 3:17:57.480 --> 3:17:59.640 person we ran into as we came down the mountain 3:17:59.840 --> 3:18:03.520 was the guy who'd been pleading with us to go 3:18:03.600 --> 3:18:08.320 help them. Yeah, God, and like had decided Border Patrol 3:18:08.360 --> 3:18:11.120 had collected everyone to take them to process them right 3:18:11.160 --> 3:18:13.200 for their asylum claim. And that we've heard on this 3:18:13.200 --> 3:18:15.600 podcast before about what it's like when that happened. It's 3:18:15.640 --> 3:18:20.080 not nice. It's not a pleasant stay. It's now considerably worse. 3:18:20.120 --> 3:18:22.879 I imagine people are being moved to Texas. They stayed 3:18:22.879 --> 3:18:26.480 for weeks. I met a young man a few months 3:18:26.520 --> 3:18:29.039 ago now who was in detention for three or four 3:18:29.080 --> 3:18:31.560 weeks before I presume being deported back. I can't find 3:18:31.560 --> 3:18:35.120 any record of him being released, which fucking sucks. So 3:18:35.440 --> 3:18:38.600 like this guy had chosen not to go back, and 3:18:38.680 --> 3:18:42.560 instead he'd chosen to hike back up the mountain without 3:18:42.560 --> 3:18:45.360 any food, without any water, to try and rescue these women, 3:18:45.560 --> 3:18:51.320 which it's an incredibly selfless thing to do, but he 3:18:51.400 --> 3:18:53.560 was in a bad way, right, yeah. 3:18:53.440 --> 3:18:56.959 Because so we passed the two women on the way down, 3:18:57.200 --> 3:19:00.640 kind of gave them little snacks here, like just try 3:19:00.680 --> 3:19:02.440 to encourage them as much as we could. And then 3:19:02.440 --> 3:19:06.720 when we ran into this man, he you know, kind 3:19:06.720 --> 3:19:08.880 of had that I don't know what other word to use, 3:19:08.879 --> 3:19:11.080 but kind of like crazed look in his eyes, like 3:19:11.080 --> 3:19:13.520 he wasn't sure, like yeah I do I just go 3:19:13.600 --> 3:19:15.720 back down, like I can't leave them, like I need 3:19:15.720 --> 3:19:18.119 to keep going, like I feel like I can't. And 3:19:18.240 --> 3:19:21.320 so we tried to get him settled as much as 3:19:21.320 --> 3:19:21.680 we could. 3:19:21.720 --> 3:19:22.640 We got him some water. 3:19:23.080 --> 3:19:25.680 I think you dug out some like gummy worms or 3:19:25.720 --> 3:19:27.080 something from one of your bags. 3:19:27.200 --> 3:19:30.039 Yeah, it had a bag of hot It wasn't It's 3:19:30.080 --> 3:19:34.400 like an open bag of horrabo that he was happy 3:19:34.440 --> 3:19:34.960 to receive. 3:19:35.120 --> 3:19:37.920 Yeah, and uh, you know, we just did our best 3:19:38.080 --> 3:19:41.920 to try and convince him to just kind of sit 3:19:42.000 --> 3:19:46.480 there rest a little bit and you know, like assure. 3:19:46.200 --> 3:19:48.680 Him that they're coming. They're walking down now. 3:19:48.879 --> 3:19:53.160 And it was honestly kind of beautiful the one woman, 3:19:53.160 --> 3:19:55.480 because the two women had kind of split up a 3:19:55.520 --> 3:19:58.520 little bit while they were walking downhill. So the one 3:19:58.600 --> 3:20:01.920 comes around the bend and like when they saw each other, 3:20:01.959 --> 3:20:02.720 like he just kind of. 3:20:02.680 --> 3:20:05.440 Like you could see like just everything about. 3:20:05.320 --> 3:20:08.840 Him just kind of elevated and he, you know, pepinist stuff, 3:20:08.879 --> 3:20:10.840 was like, oh my god, I'm so happy to see you. 3:20:11.040 --> 3:20:14.000 And yeah, he got up because he'd just been kind 3:20:14.000 --> 3:20:19.080 of slouched there almost like just looking exhausted. 3:20:19.640 --> 3:20:23.720 Yeah, so like seeing them kind of reunite was really nice, 3:20:23.760 --> 3:20:27.640 and they had a quick conversation and seemed like they 3:20:27.720 --> 3:20:30.080 kind of decided she was going to keep going down, 3:20:30.200 --> 3:20:34.320 and you know, he just seemed like energized by that 3:20:34.480 --> 3:20:37.240 and decided to keep going up to find the other 3:20:37.280 --> 3:20:39.720 woman to make sure she made it down as well. 3:20:39.920 --> 3:20:42.800 Yeah, which was like not an easy choice. I'm sure 3:20:42.840 --> 3:20:45.360 of him, Like no, yeah, Like at that point again, 3:20:45.480 --> 3:20:48.440 we were out of food. We we mixed him up 3:20:48.440 --> 3:20:50.680 some gatorade, and I think we took the sugar backets 3:20:50.680 --> 3:20:53.800 from MRI and like mixed them in there and some salt, 3:20:53.920 --> 3:20:57.360 just like yeah, try and give him, like I guess 3:20:57.400 --> 3:21:00.200 something some fluid he could hold on too. So who 3:21:00.200 --> 3:21:02.760 doesn't get hyper and our tree make right, which is 3:21:02.959 --> 3:21:06.080 definitely something when you see the amount of salt on people, 3:21:07.080 --> 3:21:10.240 like the white crusting on them, like they're only drinking 3:21:10.240 --> 3:21:13.960 water and they're not replacing electrolytes, like it becomes a concern. Yeah, 3:21:14.000 --> 3:21:16.160 that I guess was us for the day, right, Like 3:21:16.200 --> 3:21:20.360 we we drove home, and like we don't get to 3:21:20.400 --> 3:21:23.040 really find out how anyone did and we don't get 3:21:23.080 --> 3:21:26.960 to follow up, right, Like it's kind of not how 3:21:26.959 --> 3:21:31.039 that works. But yeah, that's just one day. Like I 3:21:31.080 --> 3:21:36.240 spoke to Raphael from and Helistad he was out on Monday, 3:21:36.400 --> 3:21:38.840 said it was just as bad, right doing a search 3:21:38.879 --> 3:21:42.320 and rescue on Monday for a mother and child and 3:21:42.360 --> 3:21:46.360 that they were able to rescue them, and like I 3:21:46.360 --> 3:21:48.120 felt like it was a value to highlight what we 3:21:48.160 --> 3:21:51.320 saw in one day because it's it's every day. I mean, 3:21:51.320 --> 3:21:53.920 it's cooled off now Onnesday, it's we that's hot, which 3:21:53.959 --> 3:21:56.000 is good, but it's every day at the moment. 3:21:56.560 --> 3:21:57.160 Well, and I. 3:21:57.080 --> 3:22:01.520 Guess for like context, cooled off means it's like load 3:22:01.520 --> 3:22:04.199 of mid nineties. 3:22:03.200 --> 3:22:07.959 Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's still like it's still not 3:22:08.160 --> 3:22:11.240 safe to make that hike without water. People are often 3:22:11.320 --> 3:22:13.920 mugged right when they cross the border or sometimes before. 3:22:14.320 --> 3:22:17.080 Sometimes they get their bags stolen. That often involves them 3:22:17.120 --> 3:22:19.520 getting their water bottles stolen that they've taken with them, 3:22:19.600 --> 3:22:22.000 right makes that journey a lot more dangerous. They also 3:22:22.040 --> 3:22:24.120 get their phone stolen, so even if they need help, 3:22:24.160 --> 3:22:27.000 they can't call nine one one. Border Patrol sometimes has 3:22:27.040 --> 3:22:29.480 like rescue beacons that you can press them and it 3:22:29.560 --> 3:22:33.400 calls Border Patrol. On the route that we run for 3:22:33.440 --> 3:22:34.959 the back half of the day, there are none of 3:22:34.959 --> 3:22:39.160 those I saw, Like I know, I came back and 3:22:38.879 --> 3:22:42.160 then you know, I sort of tried to process my 3:22:42.240 --> 3:22:43.800 day and get on with my life when you do, 3:22:43.959 --> 3:22:48.000 and and I saw the presidential debate last night, and 3:22:48.040 --> 3:22:49.760 it just makes me so fucking angry. I mean, we 3:22:49.760 --> 3:22:53.640 shouldn't expect anymore from these people. They're politicians. They don't 3:22:53.640 --> 3:22:54.920 give a shit about you, they don't give a shit 3:22:54.920 --> 3:22:57.960 about me, and they certainly don't care about these poor, 3:22:58.000 --> 3:23:02.400 desperate people. And like, I understand that people want to 3:23:02.480 --> 3:23:05.199 vote for Kamala because maybe she's less bad than Trump, 3:23:05.280 --> 3:23:08.400 but like, I have a real fucking hard time thinking 3:23:08.440 --> 3:23:10.840 about the parents of the young man who died at 3:23:10.840 --> 3:23:13.920 the border. Yeah, having to deal with Okay, well, she's 3:23:14.000 --> 3:23:16.400 less bad than Trump. Cool, it doesn't bring their baby 3:23:16.440 --> 3:23:21.280 boy back, you know, Like and just seeing both of them, Like, 3:23:21.920 --> 3:23:25.160 the whole framing of the immigration discussion was how do 3:23:25.200 --> 3:23:27.720 we reduce numbers and make it harder. They didn't entertain 3:23:27.840 --> 3:23:30.040 for a moment that someone might come here because they've 3:23:30.040 --> 3:23:32.160 got nowhere else to go and they need to be safe, 3:23:32.760 --> 3:23:35.000 or because they want to work hard and have a 3:23:35.000 --> 3:23:37.760 better future for their family. There are a million reasons 3:23:37.760 --> 3:23:39.360 to come here, right. I came here to fucking do 3:23:39.400 --> 3:23:41.200 a PhD in Spanish history, and no one made me 3:23:42.480 --> 3:23:44.440 race my bike, No no one made me walk across 3:23:44.440 --> 3:23:47.400 the desert. You know. It's the reasons were a lot 3:23:47.400 --> 3:23:51.039 more valid than mine were. And like I know I guess, 3:23:51.560 --> 3:23:53.320 I guess we should take a commercial break. 3:24:03.680 --> 3:24:05.080 Okay, we're back. 3:24:06.160 --> 3:24:09.120 I guess I want to finish up. You told me 3:24:09.160 --> 3:24:11.800 a story about why you started volunteering, which I thought 3:24:12.080 --> 3:24:13.760 was really meaningful and I'd like people to hear it. 3:24:13.879 --> 3:24:15.240 Would you mind sharing that with everyone? 3:24:15.680 --> 3:24:15.920 Oh? 3:24:16.000 --> 3:24:16.800 Yeah, no problem. 3:24:16.920 --> 3:24:21.200 So my grandmother on my father's side came to the 3:24:21.320 --> 3:24:26.680 US from Panama to go to college. My grandma on 3:24:26.760 --> 3:24:31.200 my mother's side. My understanding is they originally came to 3:24:31.240 --> 3:24:35.040 the US because somewhere down the line they were German. 3:24:35.680 --> 3:24:37.640 One of them was a duke fell in love with 3:24:38.000 --> 3:24:40.280 you know, like a servant girl or something, you know 3:24:40.360 --> 3:24:43.160 that old story. Yeah, got ostracized from the family and 3:24:43.400 --> 3:24:47.720 fled to you know, the United States, and so like 3:24:47.800 --> 3:24:50.800 even though looking at me like, I'm a why does 3:24:50.840 --> 3:24:52.119 white can be freckles? 3:24:52.120 --> 3:24:52.440 And all? 3:24:52.720 --> 3:24:52.879 Right? 3:24:53.000 --> 3:24:56.760 Like my family it's immigrants like you go back, yeah, 3:24:57.080 --> 3:25:00.880 like you know, as we all are. And god, this 3:25:01.120 --> 3:25:06.720 was twenty nineteen. I didn't know what I was doing. 3:25:07.720 --> 3:25:10.720 I felt stuck in my job. I just kind of 3:25:11.120 --> 3:25:14.280 wanted to get away from my family for you know, 3:25:14.959 --> 3:25:19.120 lack of a better phrase, And I thought, hell why 3:25:19.160 --> 3:25:21.560 not the like why not the Peace Corps. Go do 3:25:22.680 --> 3:25:26.320 something good on the government's dime. And you know, see 3:25:26.360 --> 3:25:28.680 the world, it's you know, it's big, it's sexy, it's foreign. 3:25:29.360 --> 3:25:31.800 And so I went. 3:25:32.280 --> 3:25:36.200 I got placed in Swatini, which is a country in 3:25:36.680 --> 3:25:43.320 southern Africa, and I was in the youth development sector there. 3:25:43.760 --> 3:25:45.000 So I got placed. 3:25:45.040 --> 3:25:47.840 I was working at a high school there, and I 3:25:47.879 --> 3:25:50.840 was having a conversation one day with the religion teacher 3:25:51.320 --> 3:25:55.119 who just couldn't he could not understand the idea of 3:25:55.680 --> 3:25:59.200 like why we don't teach religion in high schools in 3:25:59.360 --> 3:26:01.400 the US. Like he's like, you know, how can you 3:26:01.480 --> 3:26:03.879 learn to understand somebody else's point of view if you're 3:26:03.879 --> 3:26:07.280 not allowed to learn about it. And so like talked 3:26:07.280 --> 3:26:10.360 about like how we value the concept of separation of 3:26:10.440 --> 3:26:13.240 church and state, and it just kind of got on 3:26:13.280 --> 3:26:17.080 the topic of different viewpoints between our two cultures like that, 3:26:17.280 --> 3:26:23.800 and this man looked at me and said, I feel 3:26:23.840 --> 3:26:27.920 so blessed that there is a country in this world, 3:26:28.240 --> 3:26:32.520 like the United States, where there's no poverty, nobody goes hungry, 3:26:33.120 --> 3:26:37.240 everybody has a job, and there are people like you 3:26:38.000 --> 3:26:42.119 willing to leave such a beautiful place to come here 3:26:42.480 --> 3:26:45.959 and help us, which you know, naturally, I was like, oh, 3:26:46.000 --> 3:26:48.440 like that's, you know, really nice of you to say. 3:26:48.480 --> 3:26:50.680 But you know, like in the United States, like we 3:26:50.840 --> 3:26:52.600 have people that. 3:26:52.560 --> 3:26:57.320 Go hungry, we you know, deal with poverty, homelessness, et cetera, 3:26:57.320 --> 3:27:00.520 et cetera. And I'll never forget this guy looked me 3:27:00.600 --> 3:27:04.640 dead in the eyes and just said like, oh, then 3:27:05.080 --> 3:27:06.040 why are you here? 3:27:06.879 --> 3:27:10.959 Why aren't you at home helping them? 3:27:11.440 --> 3:27:14.879 And it just kind of shattered me in this you know, 3:27:14.959 --> 3:27:19.879 like yeah, no, like you're right, Like I totally and 3:27:19.920 --> 3:27:22.440 completely joined the Peace Corps for like the super selfish 3:27:22.440 --> 3:27:26.320 reasons and so, like I said, I was there twenty nineteen, 3:27:26.520 --> 3:27:28.280 so I was there. 3:27:28.360 --> 3:27:29.520 I don't know if you were. 3:27:29.520 --> 3:27:31.800 The listeners heard about this thing called COVID and the 3:27:31.800 --> 3:27:34.959 pandemic that happened, But I was part of the global 3:27:34.959 --> 3:27:37.960 evacuation order that went out for Peace Corps. Came back 3:27:38.000 --> 3:27:42.000 to the US, moved around a little bit, and last 3:27:42.120 --> 3:27:45.920 year I was listening to your podcast at work. You 3:27:45.959 --> 3:27:50.080 interviewed a couple of people that do work with Borderland's 3:27:50.120 --> 3:27:54.039 Relief Collective and just kind of thought to myself, we like, shit, 3:27:54.120 --> 3:27:56.280 I live near there, Like I can carry stuff in 3:27:56.320 --> 3:27:58.520 a backpack, Like I know how to hike, you know, 3:27:58.920 --> 3:28:01.280 why not me? Why not go see how I can 3:28:01.320 --> 3:28:04.640 help out? And you know, it's been a year and 3:28:04.720 --> 3:28:07.520 some change at this point that I've been with the group, 3:28:07.760 --> 3:28:10.560 and you know, like it's not like I've got some 3:28:11.520 --> 3:28:16.080 big fancy degree in like international relations or anything like that. 3:28:16.120 --> 3:28:17.800 I'm just a I'm some guy. 3:28:17.840 --> 3:28:21.560 I'm a graphic I'm a graphic designer that can carry 3:28:21.560 --> 3:28:24.400 stuff at a backpack. Yeah, but you know that makes 3:28:24.440 --> 3:28:25.959 all the difference sometimes. 3:28:26.120 --> 3:28:28.000 Yeah, it's just being willing. 3:28:27.720 --> 3:28:30.880 To go out there and you know, like put that 3:28:31.440 --> 3:28:32.959 compassion to you. 3:28:32.879 --> 3:28:33.480 Know, to work. 3:28:34.000 --> 3:28:34.240 Yeah. 3:28:34.440 --> 3:28:37.879 I think it's like we're just two dudes with the 3:28:37.920 --> 3:28:40.320 truck and like a good credit card to buy water. 3:28:41.320 --> 3:28:45.199 It doesn't take a brilliant so like command, I speak 3:28:45.240 --> 3:28:48.280 a couple of other languages, but often like maybe I'll 3:28:48.280 --> 3:28:50.439 make the image for the show of my Google Translate 3:28:50.840 --> 3:28:55.240 app for that day. Yeah, Like we we're just using 3:28:55.280 --> 3:28:58.200 the tools that most of us have, right, Like, and 3:28:58.280 --> 3:29:00.280 it doesn't have to be at the border. Obviously people 3:29:00.280 --> 3:29:03.320 listening on the border, but like things will be so 3:29:03.600 --> 3:29:07.879 much worse there if local folks didn't just take it 3:29:07.959 --> 3:29:10.279 upon themselves. To do the things that the state refuses 3:29:10.320 --> 3:29:14.480 to do. And like that applies to the unhoused population too, 3:29:14.520 --> 3:29:16.840 write like I know my friends were also carrying water 3:29:16.920 --> 3:29:19.160 for them this weekend because it was hot trying to 3:29:19.160 --> 3:29:22.959 get and the city shut down the Homelessness Resource Center 3:29:23.160 --> 3:29:27.119 because the temperatures were too high for the stuff, which 3:29:27.200 --> 3:29:30.480 is fucking just something else. But I don't think we 3:29:30.520 --> 3:29:32.640 should expect anymore from the state. That's not what it's for. 3:29:32.760 --> 3:29:36.360 It's not to keep us safe. It's to keep capital safe, 3:29:36.400 --> 3:29:38.879 it's to keep wealth safe. It's to keep a certain 3:29:38.920 --> 3:29:41.760 class of people faith. And it camouflages itself and all 3:29:41.800 --> 3:29:45.320 these institutions which say they're there to look after us, 3:29:45.360 --> 3:29:47.040 but like when it comes down to it, like when 3:29:47.080 --> 3:29:49.680 those ladies are lying on the dirt, it's just two 3:29:49.720 --> 3:29:53.640 toots in a truck kind of scrounge around for gatorade. Right, 3:29:53.680 --> 3:29:57.800 And like I want people listening. I know I harp 3:29:57.840 --> 3:29:59.280 on this a lot, but like, the only way that 3:29:59.280 --> 3:30:03.119 we fixed is it's not someone else, it's not posting. 3:30:03.920 --> 3:30:06.240 I would love it if you could donate, right, I mean, 3:30:06.400 --> 3:30:08.240 I'll include a link in the show. That'd be great, 3:30:08.280 --> 3:30:09.720 But I would love it so much more if you 3:30:09.720 --> 3:30:13.560 could do something wherever you are, Like, just don't think 3:30:13.600 --> 3:30:16.879 that anyone doing this is special. Like, of course the 3:30:17.000 --> 3:30:19.640 things that I think they're special, people enjoy spending time 3:30:19.680 --> 3:30:23.560 with them. But like, you could do it too. There's 3:30:23.600 --> 3:30:28.879 nothing that's inherently stopping you from doing it. And it 3:30:28.920 --> 3:30:31.959 doesn't matter who wins the election, right, it really doesn't matter. 3:30:32.879 --> 3:30:35.360 Every year that Joe Biden has been president, more people 3:30:35.400 --> 3:30:37.520 have died than the year before. And he was the 3:30:37.560 --> 3:30:39.520 guy who was supposed to be kind. He didn't even 3:30:39.680 --> 3:30:43.400 run on a harsh border policy. Harris is running on 3:30:43.440 --> 3:30:46.320 a half border policy. It's only going to get worse. 3:30:46.480 --> 3:30:50.640 She's even renegged on building more wall, like they are 3:30:50.760 --> 3:30:53.320 beginning to construct wall around her cumber in the places 3:30:53.320 --> 3:30:55.560 where we looked after people last winter. So that will 3:30:55.600 --> 3:30:57.600 push people to value of the moon where it is 3:30:58.120 --> 3:31:02.000 impassable ter rain. Yeah, more people will die in the cold, 3:31:02.000 --> 3:31:03.640 and more people will die in the heat, and I 3:31:03.640 --> 3:31:05.320 guess we'll probably be out there too. You're trying to 3:31:05.360 --> 3:31:10.320 help them, But I just want everyone listening, Like, I 3:31:10.360 --> 3:31:14.280 know we've covered the election a lot, it doesn't I 3:31:14.280 --> 3:31:15.920 don't want to tell you it doesn't matter I'm sure 3:31:15.920 --> 3:31:18.560 it matters, like it matters for my friends in Kurdistan 3:31:18.600 --> 3:31:21.800 who Trump fucking abandoned left to die after they gave 3:31:22.040 --> 3:31:26.080 thousands of their children to fight. Isis right? But even 3:31:26.280 --> 3:31:30.400 if Harris wins, like, donations went down so much in 3:31:30.440 --> 3:31:33.560 the Biden era compared to the Trump era, and people 3:31:33.640 --> 3:31:38.240 died in the desert, people died in Tijuana, right, because 3:31:39.240 --> 3:31:42.360 that's what this system does. But people stop caring when 3:31:42.440 --> 3:31:44.760 a lot of big commercial networks start reporting on it. 3:31:45.320 --> 3:31:47.080 And I would like you will still to care whoever 3:31:47.120 --> 3:31:48.600 wins the election. And I'd like you will still to 3:31:48.640 --> 3:31:51.840 care before the election. And the way you can show 3:31:51.840 --> 3:31:54.240 that you care is showing up for your community. Whatever 3:31:54.280 --> 3:31:57.360 it is, right, Harmelo isn't going to fucking solve homelessness either. 3:31:58.560 --> 3:32:01.840 So yeah, you got anything to leave people with if 3:32:01.840 --> 3:32:04.080 anything you want to you want to say, want to 3:32:04.080 --> 3:32:05.520 plug just. 3:32:05.959 --> 3:32:09.039 You know, order lands, relief, collective order kindness. 3:32:10.360 --> 3:32:13.200 Raphael's group, the Anhelez de Desierto. 3:32:13.360 --> 3:32:17.039 I think, yeah, you know, just if you can. 3:32:17.240 --> 3:32:18.640 Come out, like if you're in the area, if you 3:32:18.640 --> 3:32:21.200 can come out, you can help great, Like the more 3:32:21.200 --> 3:32:24.520 people that carry supplies, the more we can leave. If 3:32:24.840 --> 3:32:28.080 you're not in the area or you know, like hiking 3:32:28.320 --> 3:32:32.480 and carrying heavy things is not what you're into. Donating 3:32:32.840 --> 3:32:37.359 always super appreciated. I know, specifically Order Lands Relief Collective. 3:32:37.520 --> 3:32:41.879 Every single cent that is donated to us goes to 3:32:42.280 --> 3:32:46.600 supplies that we leave for migrants. And even if it's 3:32:46.600 --> 3:32:51.400 only a few dollars, I mean, like we're talking bottled water. 3:32:51.520 --> 3:32:54.120 I mean the sixteen gallons of water that we bought 3:32:54.160 --> 3:32:57.920 I think ended up running somewhere in ballpark like fifty bucks. 3:32:57.959 --> 3:33:01.199 Like yeah, you know, like it's it's water or gatorade. 3:33:01.240 --> 3:33:04.120 Sometimes it's you know, off brand gatorade. So like a 3:33:04.480 --> 3:33:07.320 few dollars can go a long way, and that long 3:33:07.360 --> 3:33:09.879 way could mean saving someone's life. 3:33:10.080 --> 3:33:13.040 Yeah, totally. So you know, whatever you can give I 3:33:13.080 --> 3:33:18.480 would be appreciated. I know our friend Rafael from Lochandelesto 3:33:18.680 --> 3:33:21.560 is his vehicle broke this weekend. He does search and rescue. 3:33:21.879 --> 3:33:23.240 I gave you got a few bucks and you want 3:33:23.240 --> 3:33:26.000 to pass him his way. It's Los and Hell's like 3:33:26.080 --> 3:33:28.640 the town del Desierto do or go put that on 3:33:28.680 --> 3:33:31.520 the link to but we'll put both those in the 3:33:31.520 --> 3:33:35.879 show notes. Please do whatever you can and yeah, hopefully 3:33:35.879 --> 3:33:37.440 next time I talk to you about border stuff, it'll 3:33:37.480 --> 3:33:40.680 be better than you. Thank you, Jons, Yeah, thanks mat. 3:33:43.760 --> 3:33:44.000 Hey. 3:33:44.080 --> 3:33:47.200 We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from 3:33:47.200 --> 3:33:48.920 now until the heat death of the Universe. 3:33:49.840 --> 3:33:52.280 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:33:52.480 --> 3:33:55.560 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:33:55.640 --> 3:33:58.200 cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 3:33:58.240 --> 3:34:02.200 iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast Us, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 3:34:02.600 --> 3:34:04.520 You can now find sources for It Could Happen Here, 3:34:04.560 --> 3:34:07.520 listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.