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Speaker 1: Al Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to it could happen here a podcast about things

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Speaker 3: falling apart and how to put them back together again.

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Speaker 3: I'm your host, b A walg with me is Robert Evans.

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Speaker 3: Woo woo. So we have spent a lot of time

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Speaker 3: on this show talking about the rise of the far

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Speaker 3: right and what that's looked like electorally, what that's looked

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Speaker 3: like in the streets, and the sort of you know,

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Speaker 3: deleterious effects that it has had on effectively everyone in

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Speaker 3: the US. This is going to be a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a different episode. We've talked about a lot of

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Speaker 3: the responses to the far right, sort of you know,

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Speaker 3: inter sort of direct actions and sort of confrontations. What

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Speaker 3: we haven't really done is talked about what can be

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Speaker 3: done electorally, and I do think that a significant portion

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Speaker 3: of the far right can be defanged and eventually defeated

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Speaker 3: through a series of things that are not particularly complicated.

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Speaker 3: But the problem is that defeating the far right means

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Speaker 3: going beyond simply trying to win every single election, which

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Speaker 3: is the current sort of democratic strategy. Right If you

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Speaker 3: want to actually defeat the far right, winning every election

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Speaker 3: is not a viable strategy. We've seen this fail already

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Speaker 3: with Hillary Clinton. We cannot rely on simply winning every

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Speaker 3: election into the future. You have to go beyond mere

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Speaker 3: electoral victory towards using your electoral victory to actually defeat

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Speaker 3: the base of the far right. When the Republican Party

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Speaker 3: held power for twelve years following the ascension of Ronald Reagan,

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Speaker 3: they did it by destroying the political base the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 3: They shattered America's trade unions and rebuilt the economy to

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Speaker 3: ens unions would no longer be able to provide the

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Speaker 3: ideological and financial support the Democrats had relied on. If

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Speaker 3: we are going to defeat the far right, we need

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Speaker 3: to wage the same kind of campaign against them now.

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Speaker 3: Luckily for us, unlike Ronald Reagan, We do not need

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Speaker 3: to completely rebuild the American economy to knock the legs

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Speaker 3: of the far right out from under them. There is,

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Speaker 3: in fact, a pretty minimal program that we can implement

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Speaker 3: to defeat the far right that is very simple. It

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Speaker 3: has three components. First, a crack down on MLMs that

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Speaker 3: drives them effectively completely underground.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, by which we mean multi level marketing. For these

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Speaker 2: are period schemes, right, which are a major source of

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Speaker 2: funding for the fire right. I mean this is where

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Speaker 2: Trump comes out of, right, this is why he did

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Speaker 2: that fake university like, this is a big part of

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Speaker 2: his base. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to get more into that in a seconds.

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Speaker 3: The second, very important one is a regulatory overhaul of

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Speaker 3: how the FDA regulates supplements. Oh boy, which sounds like

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Speaker 3: it yeah, extremely technical and nerdy thing, but supplements are

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Speaker 3: another enormous cash spigot for the far right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is where Alex Jones and Joe Rogan get

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Speaker 2: their shit. Yeah, yep, yep.

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Speaker 3: And the third is another kind of wonky change that

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Speaker 3: will be extremely important, which is making sure to allow

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Speaker 3: car companies to make direct sales to customers, thus undercutting

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Speaker 3: the enormous and extremely politically powerful base of right wing

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Speaker 3: American car dealership owners.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who donate more money to political causes than any

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Speaker 2: other career field in this country.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And you may not believe us yet just from

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Speaker 3: this sort of basic introduction, but these three simple reforms

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Speaker 3: EML and regulation, regulation of dietary supplements, and the direct

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Speaker 3: sales of cars will destroy so much of the financial

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Speaker 3: and political base of the far right that they will

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Speaker 3: at least temporarily and in the sort of mid range term,

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Speaker 3: becomes significantly less of a threat than they are now.

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Speaker 3: So we are going to start with MLMs. Yeah, as

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Speaker 3: Robert has sort of alluded to, MLMs are a very

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Speaker 3: very important political base for the far rights. I'm probably

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Speaker 3: the most famous and the one that Robert has done

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Speaker 3: an entire show on. So go listen to that if

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Speaker 3: you want to really actually in detailed thing on the

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Speaker 3: history of Amway. Amway and the sort of political family

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Speaker 3: the devices that they've generated are an incredibly important part

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Speaker 3: of the emerging far right. I mean, obviously, most famously

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Speaker 3: Betsy de Vos, who married into the Klan, was our

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Speaker 3: Secretary of Education under Trump. You know, the sort of

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Speaker 3: prince family is embedded into this and Amway famously used

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Speaker 3: its own internal communications to stump for Republican Party candidates

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Speaker 3: and also uses its base and also directly its own

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Speaker 3: funds to fund the Republican Party and a bunch of

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Speaker 3: Republican congressional candidates. Now, obviously, and this is something that

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Speaker 3: is true of all of these reforms, is that everything

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Speaker 3: we're doing here, they're morally and politically good in their

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Speaker 3: own right. Right, MLMs are scams, They're extremely exploitative, and

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Speaker 3: their role, I think in the far right is a

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Speaker 3: lot more important than people understand. Even if you just

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Speaker 3: look at the money, you're sort of missing part of

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Speaker 3: what's going on with MLMs. MLMs aren't just a cash spigot.

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Speaker 3: They're part of how the far right builds is ideological base.

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Speaker 3: MLMs teach you to convert all of your personal relations

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Speaker 3: into potential assets for sales. This is obviously evil on

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Speaker 3: a moral level, but it's also insidious on an ideological level.

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Speaker 3: The MLM logic of turning all of your most precious

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Speaker 3: relationships into sales vectors changes how you see the world.

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Speaker 3: And this is why Republican recruiting inside Amway works so well.

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Speaker 3: Once you've been trained that literally everything, even your sort

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Speaker 3: of closest friends and your dearest relationships with your family

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Speaker 3: are just business opportunities. It's extremely easy to convince you

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Speaker 3: of the rest of the Republican Party platform in the

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Speaker 3: same way the experience of being in a union and

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Speaker 3: organizing with your coworkers once reliably turned out the ideological

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Speaker 3: base of the left. MLMs have generated enormous political basis

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Speaker 3: for the right. And unfortunately, this sort of ideological threat

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Speaker 3: doesn't just go away if people are able to get

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Speaker 3: out of MLMs, or especially if you know they're sort

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Speaker 3: of cast out of the mlems because they've simply are

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Speaker 3: broken brand of money and are in debt. The isolation

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Speaker 3: and alienation that comes from pushing away, you know, every

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Speaker 3: single relation that's close to you, from attempting to sell

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Speaker 3: them soap or whatever, makes people isolated and alienated and

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Speaker 3: makes them more vulnerable to far right radicalization. And this

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Speaker 3: is why driving these MLMs under isn't just a way

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Speaker 3: to sort of cost Republican Party money, because that's not

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Speaker 3: enough to defeat the Republicans. They can find other sources

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Speaker 3: of money. What you need to do is systematically remove

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Speaker 3: parts of their political base. And when I say your

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Speaker 3: roofports to their political base. What I mean is you

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Speaker 3: have to go after the systems that are creating more

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Speaker 3: members of the or right. Going after MLMs is a

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Speaker 3: way to do that. Now. The FTC has gone after

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Speaker 3: m lms before. They sort of famously, as you talked

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Speaker 3: about in that episode and an m way, they went after

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Speaker 3: a bunch of MLMs in the eighties. But this sort

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Speaker 3: of caused MLMs to get smarter and has you know,

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Speaker 3: has been pretty effective in in sort of warding the

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Speaker 3: FTC off from really going after MLMs since then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is by the way, like another you were

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Speaker 2: just talking about how the way MLMs impact like the

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Speaker 2: minds of the people participating in them, like prepares them,

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Speaker 2: you know, for the far right. Yeah, the way in

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Speaker 2: which this this sense of impunity has developed among the

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Speaker 2: people who run and participate in these things due to

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Speaker 2: their capture of the legal system is also a part

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Speaker 2: of like why the far right works the way it does,

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Speaker 2: that sense of impunity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And part of the reason why they have that

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Speaker 3: impunity is is just the way the FDC goes after

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Speaker 3: these companies, right, I mean, there was in the in

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Speaker 3: the mid twenty tens, the FTC went after neutral Light,

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Speaker 3: which is one of the biggest and oldest MLMs. But

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Speaker 3: the way they went after them was they issued them

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Speaker 3: a two hundred million dollar fine, and that's a lot

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Speaker 3: of money, but it didn't drive neutral Light out of business.

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Speaker 3: And as the anthropologist David Graeber pointed out, if government

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Speaker 3: regulation just means setting fines, and if the fines still

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Speaker 3: allow the business to make more money than they lost

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Speaker 3: from the fines, then that's just the government taking a cut.

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Speaker 3: It's not actual regulation. And if you're one of these

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Speaker 3: businesses and the worst that could happen to you is

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Speaker 3: the government takes a cut, you end up with, you know,

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Speaker 3: two thousand and eight right where all these banks know

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Speaker 3: they're going to get bailed out, and they know the

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Speaker 3: worst punishment that's going to happen to them is just

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Speaker 3: the government taking a small cut and they can go

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Speaker 3: back to just making all their money. So in order

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Speaker 3: to actually go after MLMs, we can't simply rely on

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Speaker 3: the FTC. You know, even if if you were to

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Speaker 3: sort of put in charge a more militant FTC that

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Speaker 3: was were willing to go after stuff, there needs to

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Speaker 3: be actual literary change here, and that is possible but difficult.

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Speaker 3: But if we actually want, if we're actually deeply serious

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Speaker 3: about wielding political power to defeat the far right and

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Speaker 3: to keep them from re emerging and to keep them

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Speaker 3: out of power generationally, then this is the start of

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Speaker 3: what we have to do. So we mentioned Neutralite, which is,

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Speaker 3: you know, a very very powerful MLM. Neutralite is important

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Speaker 3: because it is actually two kinds of business that are

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Speaker 3: extremely important to the far right. At the same time.

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Speaker 3: It is part MLM, but it is an MLM that

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Speaker 3: also sells dietary supplements. And when we come back from

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Speaker 3: these ads, we will be considering the role of the

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Speaker 3: virtually unregulated dietary supplement markets in the rise of the

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Speaker 3: far right more broadly, and we are back, oh boy, yeah,

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Speaker 3: the supplement market. There is a lot less that has

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Speaker 3: been written about this, then there should be. So dietary

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Speaker 3: supplements are barely regulated by the FDA. People are getting

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Speaker 3: scammed all over the place enormous numbers. I mean, I've

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Speaker 3: seen numbers that we're suggesting. I mean two hundred million

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Speaker 3: people take some kind of dietary supplement if you include

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Speaker 3: things like sort of vitamin gummyes et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: This is an enormous this is an enormous business. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to read from Johnny R. Starr, who wrote an

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Speaker 3: article about supplement regulation in the American Journal of Public Health.

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Speaker 3: If you're going to read this, By the way, this

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Speaker 3: is slightly out of date, because the next year, I

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Speaker 3: don't know if this is part of this. The next

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Speaker 3: year at FDC a little bit overhauled their supplement regulations.

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Speaker 3: But here is star quote the Dietary Supplement Health and

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Speaker 3: Education Act, which is the big thing that sort of

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Speaker 3: deregulated supplements, prohibit supplements that pose a substantial risk of injury,

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Speaker 3: allows the Secretary of Health and Human Services to issue

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Speaker 3: immediate bands on substances that are imminent hazards, and authorizes

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Speaker 3: the FDA to implement current good manufacturing practice guidelines. The

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Speaker 3: law also requires pre market notification for new dietary supplements

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Speaker 3: defined supplements that were not marketed in the US before

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Speaker 3: October fifteenth, nineteen forty four, which is when the Dietary

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Speaker 3: Supplement Health Education Act went into effect. Products violating these

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Speaker 3: regulations are deemed dangerous, adulterated, and misbranded, are otherwise unlawful.

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Speaker 3: And that all sounds well and good until you get

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Speaker 3: to the next sentence, which is quote, However, supplements need

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Speaker 3: not be evaluated for efficiency, and only limited data on

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Speaker 3: safety are required for new supplement ingredients.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, like you're not supposed to let people sell dangerous supplements,

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Speaker 2: but we're all also not supposed to check to make

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Speaker 2: sure the supplements are safe or work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it as the FDA itself admits that even

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Speaker 3: the little tiny notifications for things like new ingredients that

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Speaker 3: the fa in posts of twenty sixteen, you're supposed to

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Speaker 3: notify the FADA if you put new ingredients. But like,

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Speaker 3: even that just isn't happening. These companies just don't care.

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Speaker 3: They're just not either not even like doing the little

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Speaker 3: tidy legal mandate stuff they're required to.

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Speaker 2: I should also note a large part of the blame

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Speaker 2: for particularly the supplements, but also I mean MLMs, actually

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Speaker 2: they play a role in it too. It's the state

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Speaker 2: of Utah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: By the way, a political power of the state of

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Speaker 2: Utah is a huge part of why, because supplements are

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Speaker 2: a massive fucking industry in Utah. So are MLMs. So,

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Speaker 2: by the way, our team treatment facilities, the ones where

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Speaker 2: they like kidnap your children and torture them. These are

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Speaker 2: all things that the state of Utah in specific will

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Speaker 2: fight like hell to stop from being fixed in any way,

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Speaker 2: shape or for.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that bill I keep talking about the Dietary

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Speaker 3: Supplement Health Education Act, That is the baby of Utah

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Speaker 3: Senator or In Hatch, who is a terrible right wing

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Speaker 3: force in American politics. And the fact that orin Hatch

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Speaker 3: has been this effective and the fact that Utah serves

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Speaker 3: as such a powerful base here demonstrate something that's important

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Speaker 3: about this political strategy, which is that it has to

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Speaker 3: be a federal level political strategy because there are a

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Speaker 3: lot of states Republicans effectively have strangleholds. You need to

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Speaker 3: use the federal government to bypass the unbelievable block of

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Speaker 3: sort of political power in these states. I want to

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Speaker 3: read a little bit more from that article by Star

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Speaker 3: about what kind of regulations are required for supplements, because

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Speaker 3: I think it's extremely dire in and of itself. Quote,

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Speaker 3: manufacturers are not required to confirm the identity of all

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Speaker 3: ingredients supply to them.

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Speaker 2: Sure why they need to do that?

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Speaker 3: Unbelievable, And they're not required to follow up river how

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Speaker 3: I talked about there's current good manufacturing Practices guidelines. Following

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Speaker 3: those guidelines does not guarantee the absence of all contabinants. Moreover,

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Speaker 3: unlike drugs which are considered unadulterated or misbranded, if they

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Speaker 3: do not achieve compliance with national standards set by US

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Speaker 3: Pharmacopeia and National formulary, dietary supplements may choose to be compliant.

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Speaker 3: Only six brands of dietary supplements are currently verified by

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Speaker 3: US Pharmacopeia, so they don't have to work. They can

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Speaker 3: choose whether or not they want to be submitted to

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Speaker 3: see if any of this stuff works. Now in theory, also,

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Speaker 3: the marketing of dietary settlements is supposed to be regulated

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Speaker 3: by the FDC, But like is the FDC regulating you

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Speaker 3: know all of these false claims people are making with

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Speaker 3: the dietary slelements. No, of course they're not doing that.

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Speaker 3: So why do we care about supplement market Robert has

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Speaker 3: kind of has talked about this at the very beginning

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Speaker 3: of the episode. The easiest answer for why we should

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Speaker 3: care about supplement markets is simply the figure of Alex Jones,

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Speaker 3: who you know, we have talked about extensively on this show.

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Speaker 3: It's been behind the masters. If you want to really,

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Speaker 3: really in depth look at who Alex Jones is. The

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Speaker 3: podcast Knowledge Fight is the single best resource I think

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Speaker 3: anyone has ever created.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be hard to beat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's unbelievably detailed. But Alex Jones has, you know,

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Speaker 3: as an individual figure, has done more or to sort

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Speaker 3: of spread the ideology the far right and turn this

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Speaker 3: country into what it is now then maybe almost any

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Speaker 3: other single person other than someone like Trump. Right, he

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Speaker 3: is probably most well known now as quote the Sandy

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Speaker 3: Hook guy, which he's extremely mad at people calling him,

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Speaker 3: but he's why everyone thinks that not everyone, but a

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Speaker 3: bunch of people think that Sandy Hook was a false flag.

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Speaker 3: And importantly, here's from NPR quote most of Free Speech Systems,

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Speaker 3: which is Alex Jones, the corporate name for Alex Jones' company.

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Speaker 3: Most of Free Speech System's revenue to this day, about

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Speaker 3: eighty percent comes from dietary supplements, according to court records. Now,

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Speaker 3: these court records come from one of a number of

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Speaker 3: lawsuits against Alex Jones for defaming the families of the

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Speaker 3: victims of the Alex Jones shooting. Are we certain for

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Speaker 3: defaming the victims of Sandy Hook shooting. Sorry, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And you know, in the process of discovery, we got

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Speaker 3: a bunch of information about how how Alex Jones's internal

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Speaker 3: media empire actually works. Now, if you followed Alex Jones

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Speaker 3: over the years, you know that he's hawked everything from

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Speaker 3: silver to satellite phones. But it is the dietary supplements

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Speaker 3: that actually sell right As an MPR article said, about

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Speaker 3: eighty percent of his revenue comes from dietary supplements. And

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Speaker 3: this is not a sort of small independent media outlet,

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Speaker 3: right free speech systems. Again, as Alex Jones' company was

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Speaker 3: worth hundreds of millions of dollars, this is an enormous

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Speaker 3: for right media empire, and supplement sales allow right wing

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Speaker 3: figures like Alex Jones to bypass the reliance on ads,

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Speaker 3: which removes a lot of potential leverage from activist groups

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Speaker 3: who wage pressure campaigns against you know, dated this against

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Speaker 3: Tucker Carlson for example, where people went after their advertisers

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Speaker 3: and showed them the stuff Tucker Carlson was saying on

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Speaker 3: Fox before he got kicked off and what do you

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Speaker 3: want to fund this? And you know that was actually

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Speaker 3: a sort of effective strategy. But you know, the any

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Speaker 3: part about this is if you look at the end

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Speaker 3: of Tucker Carlson's show, right, the ads on that show

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Speaker 3: were ads from the MyPillow guy, who is a far

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Speaker 3: right extremist in his own right and a very important

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Speaker 3: election denier, and a bunch of supplement companies. Supplement sales

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Speaker 3: are a durable and renewable grift because there's already an

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Speaker 3: extensive network of suppliers and distributors. Right wing brands who

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Speaker 3: want to make a bunch of money can just sort

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Speaker 3: of slap their name onto existing supplements that they buy wholesale,

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Speaker 3: and then they can market them to their viewers, and

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Speaker 3: this gives them an extremely profitable and lucrative source of funding.

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Speaker 3: And this is used all over the place right.

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Speaker 2: Again, it impacts what they say and like how they

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Speaker 2: like the obsession they have with like seed oils and

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Speaker 2: what's destroying your ability, like your testosterone and all of

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Speaker 2: these like different far right conspiracy theories about you know,

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Speaker 2: what kind of stuff you shouldn't be eating, Like all

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Speaker 2: of this stuff is related to the supplement business, right,

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Speaker 2: Like they are trying to drum up and destroy trust

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Speaker 2: and public health and drum up conspiracy theories for their

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Speaker 2: own profit and so it's not just a matter of

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Speaker 2: like this is how they get money, but this also

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Speaker 2: is why they do some of the things that are

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Speaker 2: so harmful.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and as you're saying, this is cyclical, right, the

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Speaker 3: incentive structure for going further and further into these conspiracies

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Speaker 3: and selling more and more of the supplement things, it's

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Speaker 3: a spiral. It it keeps on just increasing in size

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Speaker 3: and increasing in size due to the feedback loop from

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Speaker 3: the incentive structure that's selling these supplements creates. Now, this

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Speaker 3: is actually not an enormously difficult sort of feel to

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Speaker 3: just completely shut down the next branch we're going to

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Speaker 3: talk about, I think is actually a much harder political fight,

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Speaker 3: But a lot of the market for this can be

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Speaker 3: defeated by just having the FTC actually regulate supplements the

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Speaker 3: way they do drugs because and this is really important,

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Speaker 3: these supplements are being marketed as a drugs, right. The

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Speaker 3: advertisements that these people are already doing are already illegal.

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Speaker 3: The FTC is not supposed to allow people to sell

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Speaker 3: supplements like this. They shouldn't be able to be manufactured

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Speaker 3: like this. And this is again as with banning MLMs,

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Speaker 3: this is something that helps the consumer because it'll mean

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Speaker 3: that whatever supplement market exists after sort of a massive

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Speaker 3: regulatory sweep and crackdown will be much safer, it will

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Speaker 3: be much more effective, and it will also destroy the

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Speaker 3: base of far right media. If you can cut the

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Speaker 3: knees out of this sort of far right media ecosystem,

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Speaker 3: you can go an enormous way towards solving the crisis

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Speaker 3: of the far right that has been brought upon this country.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of crisis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're gonna let the ads talk about the ads,

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Speaker 3: and then we're gonna come back and close by talking

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Speaker 3: about car manufacturers in the American gentry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're back. And this is a fun one. This

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Speaker 2: is also like one of my particular favorite things to

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Speaker 2: hit because I don't think a lot of people know

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Speaker 2: how much the Republican Party is just a party of

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Speaker 2: used car dealers YEP.

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Speaker 3: Probably the most famous piece that talks it's not really

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Speaker 3: fully about car dealerships, but it mentions their sort of

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Speaker 3: political effect and the kind of class that they belong to.

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Speaker 3: Is maybe the best thing The Atlantic has published in

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Speaker 3: the last decade, at least one of the best things

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Speaker 3: they've published, and it's an article on the American gentry

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Speaker 3: by the by the journalist Patrick Wyman. Wyman argues that

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Speaker 3: huge swaths of America are ruled by what he calls

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Speaker 3: the local gentry. These are millionaires, and notably, these are

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Speaker 3: not billionaires. These are multi multimillionaires whose wealth derives from

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Speaker 3: immediate wealth extraction from the surrounding communities. In places like

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Speaker 3: wyman childhood home of Yakima, Washington, these elites have enormous

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Speaker 3: local power over the territory. They rule like the landed

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Speaker 3: gentry of old Wyman quote the conspicuously consuming celebrities and

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Speaker 3: jet setting cause of politans, if popular imagination exists, But

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Speaker 3: they are far outnumbered by a less exalted and less

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Speaker 3: discussed elite group, one that sits at the pinnacle of

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Speaker 3: the local hierarchies that govern life for tens of millions

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Speaker 3: of people. Donald Trump grasped this group's existence and its importance,

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Speaker 3: acting as he often does, on unthinking but effective instinct,

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Speaker 3: when he crowed about his quote beautiful boters, lauding the

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Speaker 3: flotilla of his supporters trailing MAGA flags from their watercraft

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Speaker 3: in his honor, or addressed his devoted followers among a

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Speaker 3: rioting January sixth crowd that included people who had flown

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Speaker 3: to the event on private jets. He knew what he

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Speaker 3: was doing. Trump was courting the support of the American gentry,

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Speaker 3: the salts of the earth, multimillionaires. You see them as

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Speaker 3: local leaders in business and politics, the underappreciated backbone of

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Speaker 3: a once great nation. Now Wyman is largely focused on

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Speaker 3: the agricultural gentry, because that's you know, the sort the

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Speaker 3: sort of agrobarons who are very important to this story,

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Speaker 3: but are are kind of are are kind of auxiliary

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Speaker 3: to this and that you know, that's largely because he's

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Speaker 3: talking a lot about the places where he grew up,

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Speaker 3: which are which are agricultural hubs. But a very critical

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Speaker 3: component of this American gentry, of this local elite class

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Speaker 3: are car dealership owners, and their wealth and influence literally

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Speaker 3: cannot be overstated. The journalist Alexander Salmon wrote this in

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Speaker 3: an article in Slate in twenty twenty three. Quote auto

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Speaker 3: dealers are one of the five most common professions among

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Speaker 3: the top point one percent of American earners. Car dealers,

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Speaker 3: gas station owners, and building contractors. It turns out, make

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Speaker 3: up the majority of the countries one hundred and forty

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Speaker 3: thousand Americans who earn more than one point five million

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Speaker 3: dollars a year. Crunching numbers from the US Census Bureau, data,

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Speaker 3: scientists and author Stephens Devotowitz found that over twenty percent

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Speaker 3: of car dealerships in the US have an owner in

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Speaker 3: banking more than one point five million a year, which

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Speaker 3: is absolutely absurd. That is, that is an unbelievable amount

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Speaker 3: of money for people who really, when you think about it,

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Speaker 3: don't do anything, like what is the actual service that

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Speaker 3: a car dealer is do?

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Speaker 2: I mean the primary thing that they do is rip

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Speaker 2: people off, because there the entire way that car sales

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Speaker 2: work is based on fraud yep, right, Like it's based

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Speaker 2: on getting you to buy things that do not actually work,

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Speaker 2: like service packages and whatnot that you often will not

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Speaker 2: get any benefit from. And it's a lot of it

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Speaker 2: is based around also just outright scams, you know, altering

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Speaker 2: the information buyers have access to so they don't realize

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Speaker 2: like problems with a used car or whatever. Like it's

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Speaker 2: it's all fraud, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And as as is becoming ever true of American life, fraudsters,

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Speaker 3: scammers and people who are just their entire existence is

436
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 3: dedicated to ripping you off have more and more political

437
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 3: power in this country. Here's a salmon from that same

438
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 3: article quote. As of twenty twenty one, the top one

439
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 3: hundred dealership groups in the US had annual revenues of

440
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 3: around one hundred billion dollars, more than any company that

441
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 3: actually makes cars. The National Automotive Dealer Association NADA became

442
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 3: one of the most influential lobbying entities in Washington, with

443
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 3: sixteen thousand dues paying members spanning thirty two thousand, five

444
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 3: hundred franchises. Soon enough, a stop at the annual NADA

445
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 3: convention became routine for presidential hall fulls, and even Presidents

446
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 3: Lyndon B. Johnson, Ronald Reagan, and Hillary Clinton all attended

447
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: ahead of presidential runs. Bill Clinton and both Bushes came

448
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 3: after they left the White House. And the fact that

449
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 3: Democrats are showing up to this is appalling on a

450
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 3: moral level. Right, this is an entire organization of fraudsters,

451
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 3: and it doesn't even work.

452
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: Right.

453
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 3: Car dealers donate six to one for Republican causes, but.

454
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: They really want that one. Yeah, it's the same thing

455
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: with like you've got Schumer going out for the crypto

456
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 2: Caucus now where Yeah, well, only a fraction of those

457
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 2: guys are going to donate to DIMS, but it's all scam.

458
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 2: He doesn't really care as long as some of it

459
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 2: goes to him. Yeah yeah.

460
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: Now. The thing that's that's dangerous about these people, and

461
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 3: I think it's even more dangerous than something like crypto money,

462
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 3: is that these are local elites, right, and they are

463
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 3: dispersed enormously across the country. This is something that Salmon

464
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: is very sort of specific about, and something that comes

465
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: up in Wyman's piece, and somebody comes up if you

466
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 3: do any research about this at all. A huge part

467
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 3: of the power is because these people are spread geographically

468
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 3: across the country, and because they are the richest people

469
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 3: or among the richest people in the sort of small

470
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 3: areas that they dominate, they have unbelievable amounts of political power.

471
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: And because they are again unbelievably wealthy, they can funnel

472
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 3: this money directly into local politics on a scale that

473
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 3: cannot be matched by your sort of grassroots organizations. This

474
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 3: allows them to buy everything from city council's to seats

475
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 3: in Congress, and.

476
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: They effectively unionize like and they've got the Portland Business

477
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: Association right, which is to a significant extent, allied with

478
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 2: the police and like dominates local politics. They're the ones

479
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: who buy the mayor's election, like they're the ones who

480
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 2: you know, make deals with the Portland Police Officers union.

481
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: Like this is this is the way in which a

482
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 2: lot of power gets exercise that actually impacts your daily life.

483
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they've also been doing things like like coordinating

484
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 3: and doing strategy sharing about defeating unions. But I mean,

485
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 3: this is why most of these big associations were formed,

486
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 3: was specifically to destroy unions in the early twentieth century.

487
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 3: And you know, I mean the Autolobbying Group was formed

488
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 3: to do autolobbying because these car dealerships don't have unions.

489
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 3: That's another thing that we'll come back to it a

490
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 3: little bit. But yeah, these car dealerships are a durable

491
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 3: and extremely powerful force in electoral politics, and they deliver

492
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 3: seats and this is the most important thing if you're

493
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 3: an electoralist. Right, these people consistently deliver cease to Republicans

494
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 3: by flooding an amount of money into local races that

495
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 3: people can't compete with. And because of this, they miserate

496
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 3: the lives of hundreds of millions of people, and they

497
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: can also largely be destroyed in a single stroke. That's

498
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 3: maybe oversalling it a little bit, but their power largely

499
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 3: rests on an enormous array of state level monopolies that

500
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 3: ban the direct sales of cars to consumers or prevent

501
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 3: car companies from competing with local retailers. And this is

502
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 3: something that the autolobby has been you know, the auto

503
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 3: association lobby not has been fighting for for ages. They've

504
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: gotten it in an enormous number of states.

505
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this, by the way, you know, in terms

506
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 2: of abilities to like disrupt things, this is a big

507
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 2: part of like how Tesla is different from other auto

508
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 2: manufacturers is in most states. There are some states where

509
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: they're not allowed to do this, but in most states

510
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 2: they sell directly to the customer, which is like back

511
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 2: before Musk became as political a figure, was actually a

512
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: major reason why these people didn't like him.

513
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 3: Well, they still don't. This is actually a really interesting thing,

514
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 3: is what the thing I want to close on here? Yes, yes, yes,

515
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 3: these people still hate Musk and they hate electric cars

516
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 3: because electric cars, to a large extent, are both a

517
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 3: being directly sold by companies and B it's harder to

518
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 3: you actually have to do service on them in a

519
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: way that makes it more expensive for these these companies

520
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 3: to write about this. This is something that Salmon has

521
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 3: written about extensively, so they absolutely despise electric cars. And

522
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 3: this is actually a political opportunity for us, right because

523
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 3: Elon Musk now is again one of there is I

524
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 3: think he's still the richest person in the world technically

525
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 3: until sort of all his stocks implode. But this is

526
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 3: an opportunity also to split parts of the Republican base

527
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 3: right because the local government monopolies that these car dealers

528
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 3: have are actually enormously unpopular among a lot of the

529
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 3: other parts of the Republican base right. Elon hates them.

530
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 3: Actual car manufacturers hate it. No one likes car dealers, like,

531
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 3: oh yeah, and this is everything you know. This is

532
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 3: also something that libertarians hate because libertarians look at this,

533
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 3: and this is one of the few times libertarians are right.

534
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 3: They look at this and go, oh yeah, well, these

535
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 3: people have been literally granted market monopolies. There are a

536
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 3: lot of places where if there's already a car dealer there,

537
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,239
Speaker 3: if you're a car company, you can't compete with these things.

538
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 3: So these are state sanction monopolies. So there's large portions

539
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 3: of the Republican base who oppose these companies, and if

540
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 3: you can use this as a wedge issue to split

541
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 3: the Republican base, and that's sort of where I want

542
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: to close on. As much as I've been talking about

543
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 3: these three very specific things, right banning MLMs or at

544
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 3: least having extremely large regulatory crackdowns, regulatory crackdowns on supplements,

545
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 3: and legislation to allow direct car sales. What we're trying

546
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 3: to do here isn't just getting rid of the money

547
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 3: that supports the far right. We're trying to destroy their

548
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 3: institutions and we're trying to fracture their base, right. Going

549
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 3: after MLMs destroys their ability to sort of produce more

550
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 3: produce more Republicans from these MLMs and produce more people

551
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 3: in the far right from these MLMs. Going after supplements

552
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 3: is a way to destroy the right wing media ecosystem,

553
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: which has been crucial to the rise of the far right.

554
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 3: And going after cars can help split the emerging Republican

555
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 3: coalition by you know, pitting two parts of the Republican

556
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 3: base against each other, pitting these car dealers versus Elon

557
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 3: and versus the auto manufacturers.

558
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: Well, Mia, great episode, This is a nice starter. This

559
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 2: is again something we're going to continue to talk about

560
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: because I really think we can't hit enough on this. Obviously,

561
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: these three things don't solve every problem with the far right,

562
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: but this is like, if you get actually like packaged

563
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: these together into a legislative agenda, it could be the

564
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: equivalent of like the nuclear option for these people. So yeah, yeah,

565
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: I think this is a smart thing to be hitting.

566
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: We will continue to talk about this in more detail,

567
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 2: but you know what, we're done for the day, Go

568
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 2: do something else.

569
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 5: I'm Stephen Monticelli, a journalist in Dallas who covers political

570
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 5: extremism in Texas.

571
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 6: I'm Michael Phillips, an historian who wrote a history of

572
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 6: racism in Dallas called White Metropolis. Both of us grew

573
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 6: up in the suburbs of Dallas, Texas, and for both

574
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 6: of us our home state has been a matter of

575
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 6: both wonder and horrified fascination. In this episode of It

576
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 6: Could Happen Here, we're going to try to explain Texas

577
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 6: culture and politics and why the country and the world

578
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 6: should care. Spoiler alert, what happens in Texas doesn't stay

579
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 6: in Texas, the state has always had a disproportionate impact

580
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 6: on national politics. The annexation of Texas in eighteen forty

581
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 6: five provoked the Mexican American War. From eighteen forty six

582
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 6: to eighteen forty eight, the United States I have two

583
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 6: thirds of Mexico's territory, and there was an ugly and

584
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 6: bitter fight over the status of slavery in all that

585
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 6: new land the United States acquired. That's going to turn

586
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 6: out to be one of the major causes of the

587
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 6: Civil War, a conflict that resulted in the liberation of

588
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 6: four million African Americans from slavery, but also the death

589
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 6: of three quarters of a million Americans. Texas also was

590
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 6: the epicenter of the Populist Movement, a leftist movement largely

591
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 6: based in Texas that actually challenged the power of the

592
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,719
Speaker 6: Democratic Party in the South. And if the Populist Party

593
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 6: had succeeded everything else happened in America in the twentieth

594
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 6: century in terms of Jim Crow, lynching, the Clan, etc.

595
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 6: May have had a very different outcome.

596
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 5: Slavery didn't end in Texas until June nineteenth, eighteen sixty five,

597
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 5: months after it had ended in the rest of the country.

598
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 5: It's a state that today is the second most pot

599
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 5: peoalists say in the nation, and it's the eighth largest

600
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 5: economy in the world. Two of the most consequential presidents

601
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 5: over the last sixty years hailed from the Lone Star State.

602
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 5: There was Democrat Lyndon Johnson, who brought the country not

603
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 5: only Medicare and Medicaid, but the nineteen sixty four Civil

604
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 5: Rights Act and the nineteen sixty five Voting Rights Act,

605
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 5: two issues that the right wing continue to fight against

606
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 5: to this day. Those laws made African Americans perhaps the

607
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 5: most important constituency in the Democratic Party. Racist backlash to

608
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 5: johnson civil rights legislation, urban uprisings in places like the

609
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 5: Watts neighborhood in Los Angeles, and white flight generally led

610
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 5: segregationists and their children in the South, who had been

611
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 5: loyal Democratic voters to switch allegiance to the Republican Party.

612
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 5: Over the next three decades, another Texas president, Republican George W.

613
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 3: Bush.

614
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 5: He aggressively embraced homophobia, tightened the ties between the Republican

615
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 5: Party and the most right wing Christians in the country,

616
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 5: and made denial of climate change strict.

617
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 7: Gope orthodoxy.

618
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 5: Of course, the Bush family's oil wealth was central to

619
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 5: their rise to power, and broadly speaking, the wealth of

620
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 5: right wing oil barons in Texas has helped push the

621
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 5: Republican Party further and further to the right, in no

622
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 5: small part due to a particular belief in a particular

623
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 5: strain of Christianity, which we'll get to later in this episode.

624
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 6: Bush's response to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade

625
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 6: Center and the Pentagon on September eleventh led to the

626
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 6: rise of the modern surveillance state and the two longest

627
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 6: wars in American history, both of them disastrous failures. The

628
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 6: combination of white backlash to the LBJ era civil rights initiatives,

629
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 6: the intense religiosity of the Bush era and the Republican

630
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 6: Party in that time period, and the sense of the

631
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 6: United States was a declining power unable to impose its

632
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 6: will on Afghanistan and Iraq opened the door of the

633
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 6: Donald Trump's ascendancy. In short, two Texas presidents played a

634
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 6: major role in making the Democratic Party vastly more diverse,

635
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 6: more urban based, and more mainstream liberal, and the Republican

636
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 6: Party more white, more right wing, more isolationists, and far

637
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 6: more fundamentalists and skeptical science.

638
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 5: Texas has been in the national news frequently in recent years,

639
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 5: and often for the worst reasons. It's become famous and

640
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 5: infamous for its wide open gun laws and several of

641
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 5: the worst mass shootings in American history, including at an

642
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 5: army base in Killeen, a Walmart and al Paso, and

643
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 5: an outlet mall in Allen. Draconian abortion laws allow complete

644
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 5: strangers to sue women who go out of state and

645
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 5: their pregnancy, and new laws are being considered to prevent

646
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 5: women from traveling through particular counties on highways who if

647
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 5: they are seeking abortion, you know they could be arrested

648
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 5: for basically trying to leave the state to seek an abortion.

649
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 6: In the last three year years in the state, a

650
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 6: group of teachers in the Southflex School District in the

651
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 6: Dallas Fort Worth area were instructed to tell quote both

652
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 6: sides of the Holocaust in order to not run a

653
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 6: foul of the legislature's ban on critical race theory. A

654
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 6: beloved teacher, Nerving, was fire for displaying a rainbow sticker

655
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 6: in our classroom as a sign of support for LGBTQ students.

656
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 6: The first ever African American high school principal at Heritage

657
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 6: High and yet another Dallas suburb, Colleyville, was forced from

658
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 6: his job when he sent an email to his high

659
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 6: school community after the murder of George Floyd that acknowledged

660
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 6: existence of systemic racism in the United States.

661
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 5: So I think you could maybe pick up on a

662
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 5: trend here in Texas that our fundamental rights like free

663
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 5: speech are under threat, particularly if you run a foul

664
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 5: of the orthodoxy that comes out of the Republican Party.

665
00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 5: And one target of that orthodoxy has been books. All

666
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 5: across this nation, we've seen dust ups over books in schools,

667
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 5: books and libraries, and Texas has.

668
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 7: Been one of the.

669
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 5: Main flashpoints of this fight. So the literary organization pen

670
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 5: America reports that Texas and Florida lead the nation in

671
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 5: book bands at public schools, with more than fifteen hundred

672
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 5: books banned in the state of Texas. Most of those

673
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 5: books deal with issues like racism or LGBTQ experience, and

674
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 5: one deputy constable in Granbury, a suburb near Dallas Fort Worth,

675
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 5: even spent two years investigating three librarians on alleged felony

676
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 5: charges of providing so called harmful materials to miners. Simply

677
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 5: because they allowed miners to access acclaimed books like The

678
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 5: Bluest Eye by Tony Morrison. According to an investigation by

679
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 5: NBC News, the law enforcement officer Scott London was a

680
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 5: member of the extremist Oathkeepers organization. He subpoened names of

681
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 5: young readers who checked out supposedly objectable material, and he

682
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 5: even secretly recorded his conversations with the librarians who drew

683
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 5: his unwonted attention. The investigative report that came out of

684
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 5: this investigation into so called harmful materials was eight hundred

685
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,240
Speaker 5: and twenty four pages long, and no charges were ever filed.

686
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 5: But nonetheless a lot of people's lives were made difficult

687
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 5: and a bunch of books have been taken off the shelves.

688
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 6: So, as we mentioned, Texas has been on the cutting

689
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 6: edge of right wing politics and America on issues like abortion,

690
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 6: the treatment of trans children, and on immigration particular. Texas

691
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 6: has modeled the Republican attitude on newcomers and migrants and

692
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 6: policies towards them. The state k Governor Greg Abbott essentially

693
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 6: tried to establish his own independent border policy, even though

694
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 6: the constitution makes that the responsibility of the federal government.

695
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 6: Texas so far has built thirty four miles of a

696
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 6: wall Abbot valves will eventually extend along the entirety of

697
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 6: texas twelve hundred and fifty four mile international border with Mexico.

698
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 6: One estimate says that project, if it were completed, would

699
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 6: take thirty years and cost twenty billion dollars. The State

700
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 6: of Texas has placed Buoy's entangled with razor wire in

701
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 6: the Rio Grande River near Eagle Pass, a border town

702
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 6: that's a major crossing point for migrants fleeing the violence

703
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 6: and economic hardship in Central America, Venezuela and the rest

704
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 6: of Latin America.

705
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 5: One of Governor Abbot's border initiatives, Operation Loan Star, has

706
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 5: flooded the border with hundreds of law enforcement agents and

707
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 5: has touted thousands of arrests. But it's also eleven billion

708
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 5: dollars and it's unclear what it's really done in terms

709
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 5: of making the state safer. Texas insists, through statements from

710
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 5: people like Greg Abbott, that immigrants are dangerous and that

711
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 5: they are flooding our streets with crime, never mind the

712
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 5: fact that studies indicate that immigrants are far less likely

713
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 5: to commit crimes. On average, these initiatives have been deadly.

714
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 5: In August twenty twenty three, a buoy trapped a twenty

715
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 5: year old in Durham and a small child, causing them

716
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 5: both to drown. The Texas border patrols El Paso sector

717
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 5: has become one of the deadliest areas of the border here,

718
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 5: with one hundred and forty nine immigrants dying over a

719
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 5: twelve month period between twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three. Recently,

720
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 5: on a podcast, Abbot expressed regret that Texas has been

721
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 5: unable to shoot immigrants who are attempting to enter Texas

722
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 5: by crossing the Rio Grant and has complained that the

723
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 5: Biden administration might file murder charges against border regions if

724
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 5: such lethal force was used.

725
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 3: And the only thing that we're not doing is we're

726
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 3: not shooting people who come across the border.

727
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 8: Because of course the Biden administration with charges with murder.

728
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 6: One of the issues about immigration is a panic amongst

729
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 6: the Anglos living in the state that white people will

730
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 6: become a shrinking and less politically powerful minority, and this

731
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 6: connects to the issue of abortion. Throughout the history of

732
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 6: abortion laws in Texas, there's been a discussion of whether

733
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 6: or not white Texans were committing what they said in

734
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 6: the early twentieth century was so called Reese suicide, a

735
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 6: real panic that black and brown people would eventually out

736
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 6: number whites and would seize political control of the state.

737
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 6: And this is tied to the abortion issue because throughout

738
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 6: the history of abortion laws in America and in Texas,

739
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 6: there's been a concern that white women are having abortions

740
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 6: and that really fuel some of the extremism in how

741
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:06,479
Speaker 6: Texas has approached this issue. Twenty twenty two, this state

742
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 6: legislature passed the law that would allow a third party

743
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,720
Speaker 6: to sue anyone who helped a woman getting an abortion,

744
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 6: although the courts have so far blocked enforcement of that law,

745
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 6: called Senate Bill eight. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton meanwhile

746
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 6: has addressed another issue dealing with trans children, and again,

747
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 6: trans children, if they're white, would be out of the

748
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 6: reproductive demographic race that panics white racist in the state.

749
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 6: He has tried to force doctors and other states to

750
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 6: provide medical information on young people receiving gender affirming care

751
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 6: outside of Texas and the parents are trans children in

752
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 6: Texas have been investigated for child abuse in each case,

753
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 6: these extreme laws have been discussed, in some cases imitated

754
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 6: in other Red states.

755
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 5: On the one hand, we've got anxieties about immigrants allegedly

756
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 5: replacing the white race rhetoric that has been repeated by

757
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 5: people as high up as Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick, who

758
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 5: has said that immigrants are trying to take over our

759
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 5: country without firing a shot. This is something that people

760
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 5: like the Hitler admirer Nick Fuentes, who has met with

761
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 5: a high ranking and influential Republican consultant who works for

762
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 5: one of the largest political donors in the country, he

763
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 5: believes that sort of rhetoric and pushes it. On the

764
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 5: other hand, we've got the issue with LGBTQ issues in general.

765
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 5: We've seen books being taken off the shelves as we've

766
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 5: previously mentioned. We've seen rights taken away from students with

767
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 5: regard to their access to bathrooms. We have seen, as

768
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 5: doctor Phillips mentioned, the targeting of parents, and a lot

769
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 5: of this comes from this anxiety that students are being

770
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 5: groomed into becoming LGBTQ in public schools, in public libraries,

771
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 5: and other settings. The idea being that yes, they're trying

772
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 5: to turn your kids gay. That's what they're saying, and

773
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 5: so of course they're going to be extremely upset about

774
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 5: any shrinking demographic numbers among the white population, or a

775
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 5: growing acceptance of queerness or people being transgender, and so

776
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 5: much of that is rooted in religious belief. But all

777
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 5: of this it matters in a bigger perspective, and I

778
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 5: think we can understand why some of this is so

779
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 5: prevalent in Texas through the lens of Texas's importance to

780
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 5: national politics.

781
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 6: Texas counts for forty of two hundred and seventy votes

782
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 6: needed to win the electoral College. Only California has more

783
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 6: electoral College votes, and the Republican Party has been able

784
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 6: to rel lie on winning every single presidential election in

785
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 6: the state since nineteen eighty. If Texas should ever flip politically,

786
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 6: it'd be hard to see how the Republicans could ever

787
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 6: win the White House again. And it always seems like

788
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 6: Texas is just on the verge of flipping blue.

789
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 7: Right.

790
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 5: There's there's been a lot of talk for a long

791
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 5: time about this pending demographic revolution, the idea that eventually,

792
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 5: you know, the numbers are just baked in and that

793
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 5: Republicans will no longer control the state. So let's look

794
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 5: at some of those numbers. So Tejanos or people of

795
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 5: Latino Hispanic descent, make up more than forty percent of

796
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 5: the state's population, so they're the largest single population group.

797
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 5: Non Whites account for sixty percent of all Texans, and

798
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 5: as a group, they vote mostly for Democrats, and they

799
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 5: control most of the state's largest cities in terms of

800
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,959
Speaker 5: political dominance. But because of low voter turnout among people

801
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 5: of color, laws that intentionally make registering to vote harder,

802
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 5: making voting itself even more difficult, gerrymandering, and the general

803
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 5: feebleness of the Democratic Party in the state, the state

804
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 5: has remained in control of a very conservative, very white

805
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 5: Republican minority for three decades. In Texas, every major city

806
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 5: is blue except for one, and that's Fort Worth, which

807
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 5: is in a place called Tarrant County. And I think

808
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 5: it is not a coincidence that the largest, flashiest conflicts

809
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 5: have often been in Tarrant County when it comes to

810
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 5: things like schools, when it comes to things like books. Colleyville,

811
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 5: as we previously mentioned, is in Tarrn County. If you've

812
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 5: ever heard of the name South Lake, that's a town

813
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 5: in Tarrant County. There are numerous national articles about issues

814
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 5: that have emerged from this one single stronghold of Republican

815
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 5: power in the state, which if it were to fall,

816
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 5: would pretend great changes not just for the politics in

817
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 5: the state of Texas, but perhaps even the nation.

818
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 6: It's been remarkable because school board meetings used to be

819
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 6: really dull and talking. You used to talk about boundaries

820
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 6: for particular campuses, you know which students are going to

821
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 6: tend which class. But now over the last few years,

822
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 6: very often they've been scenes of screaming, matches, threats, and

823
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 6: so on. Texas in many ways has become a laboratory

824
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 6: of autocracy, and again it's a model for other states

825
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 6: that have a right wing political leadership. For instance, the

826
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 6: Texas Republican Party platform adopted this year called for changes

827
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 6: in the way statewide officials like governor would be elected,

828
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 6: and essentially, the Republican Party called for creating a local

829
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 6: version of the electoral college. Under these proposed changes, a

830
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 6: candidate for governor, lieutenant governor, all the down ballot statewide

831
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 6: offices could win the popular vote and still lose the

832
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 6: election unless they carry a majority of the two hundred

833
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 6: and fifty four counties in the state, most of which

834
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 6: are very white, very conservative, very fundamentalist. If this became law,

835
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 6: the proposal would guarantee permanent Republican rule in the state,

836
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 6: and as I said, other Republican states are looking at

837
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 6: this proposal. It hasn't been proposed as legislation, but that

838
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 6: would really end any pretense of democracy because most people

839
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 6: in Texas live in cities like the rest of the

840
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 6: United States. Another way that Republicans have maintained their grip

841
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 6: on the state is by waging a never ending culture

842
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 6: war centered on matters of faith. So if you really

843
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 6: want to understand Texas, its culture, and its politics, you

844
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 6: can't avoid a discussion of religion. You have to dive

845
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 6: into a one particular type of Christianity. We've already referred to.

846
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 6: This interpretation of the Bible motivates right wing voters and

847
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 6: the vast rural sections of the state and the outer

848
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:21,240
Speaker 6: suburbs and the major cities. It's disproportionately molded the state's

849
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 6: laws and attitudes where its African Americans, immigrants, and the

850
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 6: people we've talked about women, gay and trans people, and

851
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 6: also non Christians like Jews and Muslims.

852
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 5: If you trap the sort of issues that are being

853
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 5: discussed by the Republican Party of Texas and you look back,

854
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 5: say to the time of George H. W. Bush, and

855
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 5: you look to now, it will be very clear to

856
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 5: you that the topics have changed. The sort of things

857
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 5: that they talk about. It's less about low taxes, it's

858
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 5: less about being business friendly, it's less about letting you

859
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 5: do what you want in your personal life, and it's

860
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 5: much more about imposing a particular religious viewpoint on others

861
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 5: through policy. And the most vocal, perhaps one of the

862
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 5: most highly organized and certainly flush with funds, sect of

863
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 5: Christianity that is, you know, driving this is this group

864
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 5: of Christian fundamentalists that religious scholars broadly describe as dispensationalists.

865
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 5: So what's a dispensationalist. It's a fancy word for someone

866
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 5: who believes that we are living in the end times.

867
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 5: The end times being this idea that at any moment

868
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 5: now all true Christians will be wisked up into the

869
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 5: clouds in an event called the Rapture, that an embodiment

870
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 5: of Satan called the Antichrist will take over the world

871
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 5: and try to destroy Israel. And you know, all of

872
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 5: this is, you know, presaging the final judgment, you know,

873
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 5: the day when the Lord Jesus comes down and he

874
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 5: basically decides who's done well, who's done bad, and that

875
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 5: settles it for all eternity.

876
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 6: This particular strain of fundamentalism in Texas culture and politics

877
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 6: has a profound impact on global politics. The dispensationalists are

878
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 6: certain World War three is going to consume the planet.

879
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 6: They believe there's going to be a final battle between

880
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 6: good and evil called the Battle of Armageddon. And they

881
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 6: believe this, and this is significant. They believe that Jesus

882
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 6: Christ will come back specifically to stop World War three

883
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 6: for a particular purpose. He's going to come to prevent

884
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 6: the destruction of all remaining Jewish people on the planet.

885
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 6: And they believe that millions of Jewish people are going

886
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 6: to die, those who survive are going to convert to Christianity,

887
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 6: and when Jesus returns, he will establish what's essentially a

888
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,320
Speaker 6: divine dictatorship that will be a time of perfect peace

889
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 6: and harmony, called the Millennium.

890
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 5: Texans have played a major role in popularizing dispensationalism and

891
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 5: its doom day theology both in modern times but also historically,

892
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 5: one Texas writer named Michael Ennis once called the city

893
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 5: of Dallas the Athens of the Apocalypse, and in the

894
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 5: late twentieth century, predicting the end of the world was

895
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 5: a lucrative business. So there was a theological center here

896
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 5: in Dallas that was one of the most influential groups

897
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 5: when it came to originating and promoting.

898
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 7: This idea of the end times.

899
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 5: And it also has to do with one gentleman named

900
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 5: Cyrus Scofield. But before we talk about Cyrus Schofield, a

901
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 5: quick ad break.

902
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 6: What happened was there's this member, a convert to the

903
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:16,240
Speaker 6: Congregationalist church who came from Kansas. He had been a

904
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 6: politician in Kansas who had to leave office because he

905
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,839
Speaker 6: was accused of accepting bribes. He later said he was

906
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 6: struggling with alcoholism at the time. His name is Cyrus Schofield,

907
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 6: and he converts to Christianity and he's invited to head

908
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 6: this Congregationalist church that has a tiny congregation in Dallas, Texas.

909
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 6: And when he gets here, he brings this dispensationalism he's

910
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:50,919
Speaker 6: learned from other evangelists and he's a modernizer. He has

911
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 6: adult education classes correspondents courses on the Bible, and eventually

912
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 6: he produces something published in nineteen oh nine called the

913
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 6: Schofield Reference Bible that basically is the King James Bible

914
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,479
Speaker 6: with footnotes that he and his co editors have put

915
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 6: together where they say, these strange verses in the Book

916
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 6: of Daniel, in the Book of Revelation that refer to

917
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 6: beast with seven heads and ten horns, and you know,

918
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 6: these other strange creatures, and this highly symbolic language has

919
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:37,760
Speaker 6: a very literal, obvious meaning, and that is the return

920
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 6: of Jewish people to the state of Israel, and how

921
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 6: that marks the beginning of the end.

922
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:51,399
Speaker 5: So the Schofield Reference Bible extremely popular when it comes out.

923
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 5: It was so popular it didn't save effectively the Oxford

924
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 5: University Press from going.

925
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 6: Yeah under during the Great Depression. That was very much

926
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 6: a possibility that Oxford University Press would go under. And

927
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 6: Schofield was lucky in some ways that you could put

928
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 6: it that way because the Reference Bible comes out in

929
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 6: nineteen oh nine, and four years later, what was at

930
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,720
Speaker 6: that point the most catastrophic war in human history, World

931
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 6: War One, breaks out with a level of death and

932
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 6: technology that was unprecedented in its destructiveness. Then the depression happens.

933
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 6: You have the rise of these fascist dictators, and there's

934
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 6: a sense that the world as we knew it was collapsing.

935
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 6: Capitalism might collapse, you know, you might have communists takeover,

936
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 6: you might have fascist takeover. And then of course World

937
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 6: War Two, and then finally the thing that really makes

938
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 6: Schofield seem like he was onto something in terms of

939
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 6: his Biblical interpretation. And this particular interpretation had been around

940
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 6: in certain variants for centuries and centuries, but it had

941
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 6: always been a minority view. But what really made it

942
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:17,359
Speaker 6: seem like Schofield was onto something was nineteen forty eight

943
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 6: when the State of Israel is established, the modern state

944
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,240
Speaker 6: of Israel. Because he had been saying this would happen,

945
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,320
Speaker 6: this would be the sign of the end. It becomes

946
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 6: the point where a lot of churches ministers are measured

947
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 6: by the degree to which they promote Scofieldism, and Protestant

948
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 6: churches ministers get fired if they don't begin to talk

949
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 6: about the end times.

950
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 5: Schofield kind of won the lottery with timing, and you

951
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 5: can imagine a world maybe where the Schofield Bible didn't

952
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:50,760
Speaker 5: take off.

953
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 6: Because it hadn't come out at that time that it

954
00:56:53,960 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 6: did now one of Schofield's acolytes separated by several decades.

955
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 6: Schofield had been dead for a long time. When you

956
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 6: have a student at the Dallas Theological Seminary, name how Lindsay,

957
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:14,879
Speaker 6: who had been a tugboat captain, he is attending this

958
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 6: particular school, Dallas Theological Seminary had actually been established in

959
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 6: the nineteen twenties by allies associates of Cyrus Schofield. It

960
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 6: had been a center of the study of Biblical prophecy.

961
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 6: And basically Lindsay's a student, and a lot of his

962
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,919
Speaker 6: peers said, basically he took his class notes and turned

963
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 6: into a book and his real effort. He had been

964
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 6: a leader in the campus Crusade for Christ, which was

965
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 6: an evangelical group that was trying to fight the counterculture hippies,

966
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 6: LSD and so on, and so he had that experience

967
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 6: and he brought it into the writing of a best

968
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 6: selling book called The Late Great Planet Earth. And The

969
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 6: Late Great Planet Earth is written in the language of

970
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 6: the time. He tries to use hippie type of lingo

971
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 6: in to catch on with the youth culture and it's

972
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 6: his timing, just like Schofields is great. This is a

973
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 6: time where there's an obsession with hidden knowledge. You have

974
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 6: really popular books selling about the lost continent of Atlantis UFOs,

975
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 6: the phenomena supposedly a spontaneous human combustion. Did ancient aliens

976
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 6: build the Pyramids? And if you went to a convenience

977
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 6: store or a store department store, you might find racks

978
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 6: of paper books with all this hidden knowledge. And people

979
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 6: believed that there was something hidden because of Watergate and

980
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 6: because of Vietnam, and so this became a phenomenal seller.

981
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 6: It was the best selling quote unquote nonfiction book of

982
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 6: the nineteen seventies. It later got made into a pseudo

983
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 6: documentary that was narrated by the movie star Orson Wells.

984
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it was so successful that it was

985
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 5: like twenty eight million copies by nineteen ninety had been sold.

986
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 5: And if you've got Orson Wells buttery voice narrating it

987
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 5: as if it has some real import, certainly, many, many,

988
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 5: many people were exposed to the ideas of how Lindsay Man.

989
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 4: Is faced by unprecedented perils threatened to send him crashing.

990
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 7: And the extention.

991
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 9: Now from how Lindsay's incredible best selling book comes the film,

992
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 9: which explores the terrifying.

993
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: Policies of the revelations.

994
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 4: Here's Our Planet Truly and Mortal Peril.

995
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 9: The Late Great Planet Earth, featuring Orson Wells.

996
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 5: But it didn't stop there. Lindsay's book inspired some other

997
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 5: guys who you may have heard of, these two right

998
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 5: wing political activists and Christian evangelicals named Tim Lahay and

999
00:59:58,040 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 5: Jerry B.

1000
00:59:58,520 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 7: Jenkins.

1001
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 5: And and they're the creators of the Left Behind series. Now,

1002
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 5: if you don't know the Left Behind series, you may

1003
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 5: have been living under a rock, or maybe you weren't

1004
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 5: born yet. And that's not your fault, but it is

1005
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 5: this publishing empire. At this point, retail giants like Walmart

1006
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 5: stocked the books. They sold eighty million copies, warehouses full

1007
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 5: of merch sequels, prequels, graphic novels, audio books, calendars, greeting cards,

1008
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 5: a shoot them up computer game based on the books.

1009
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 5: All of this stuff was centrally talking about the rapture

1010
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 5: the end times. That's what the Left Behind series was about.

1011
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 5: And those who are left behind are those who were

1012
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 5: not raptured. And these films center on the chaos that

1013
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 5: breaks out right after the rapture, really really popular stuff.

1014
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 5: Will play a quick clip so you can get a

1015
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 5: sense of what that's like.

1016
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 3: He took them to protect them, what from the darkest

1017
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 3: time in the history of this world, persecution.

1018
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 7: And seven years of darkness.

1019
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 10: He took them there.

1020
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 5: The left Behind books, they basically depict Jesus not as

1021
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 5: a source of love and forgiveness, but as this like

1022
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 5: source of vengeance and bloodshed. One person who spoke to

1023
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 5: in the preparation of this episode described him as a

1024
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 5: sort of rambo Jesus, to be compared to mister Rogers Jesus,

1025
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 5: you could say.

1026
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 6: And what's particularly dangerous is sometimes believers in this interpretation

1027
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 6: of the Bible try to make the end times happen

1028
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 6: sooner rather than later. Yeah, I can mention two cases,

1029
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 6: one better known than the other. You had a father's

1030
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 6: son evangelical team called Gardner Ted Armstrong. His father was

1031
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 6: named Herbert W. Armstrong. That a radio broadcasting empire. The

1032
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 6: problem is called the World Tomorrow. And they had college

1033
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 6: campuses in California and in Big Sandy, Texas, unaccredited college,

1034
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 6: unaccredited college absolutely And one person who had listened to

1035
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 6: the armstrongs on the radio, and there's an Australian named

1036
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 6: Michael Dennis Rohan on August twenty first, nineteen sixty nine,

1037
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 6: actually travels to the Aloxa Mosque in Jerusalem because he

1038
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 6: believes that's a key focal point of where armageddon is

1039
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 6: going to take place, and he actually starts a fire

1040
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,919
Speaker 6: in that mosque, and that's a revered one of those

1041
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 6: holy sites in Islam. And there was a time where

1042
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 6: there was a diplomatic crisis caused by this believer in dispensationalism. Then,

1043
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 6: of course we have what had happened to Waco, where

1044
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 6: you had a sect very much obsessed with en times

1045
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 6: and with this spensationalism led by a man named David

1046
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 6: Koresh nineteen ninety three, he led his followers on this

1047
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 6: fifty one day standoff with federal and state officials over

1048
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 6: the illegal weapons that this group, the Branch Davidians held.

1049
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 6: Eventually you have an exchange of gunfire between the agents

1050
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 6: and the Branch Davidians, and then on April nineteenth, the

1051
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 6: Feds decide to charge in and there's a fire and

1052
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 6: seventy six people die, including twenty five children.

1053
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 5: In the modern day, you know, we've got two hugely

1054
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 5: influential people who promote End Times theology. Now, one of

1055
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 5: them is the biggest political donor in the entire state

1056
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 5: of Texas, more money donated than anyone else. And his

1057
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 5: name is Tim Dunn, and we'll talk about him in

1058
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 5: a second, But first I want to talk about someone

1059
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 5: who is also pretty influential, maybe not as wealthy as

1060
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 5: Tim Dunn, who I should mention got his money through oil.

1061
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 5: But this is a man named John Hagy. He is

1062
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 5: the pastor of a twenty two thousand member church in

1063
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 5: Texas called Cornerstone Church, and I think he has a

1064
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 5: global audience as large as one hundred million people. So

1065
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 5: back in the day, as a twenty eight year old

1066
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 5: young man, he took part in the Wallace Youth, which

1067
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 5: is an organization devoted to supporting the presidential candidacy of

1068
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 5: white supremacist Alabama Governor George Wallace in nineteen sixty eight. Yeah,

1069
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 5: let's just hear from Wallace real quick.

1070
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 11: In the name of the greatest people that I've ever

1071
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 11: taught differ. I've brought a line in the dusk and

1072
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 11: passed the government before the THEATA Turner, and I face segregation. Now,

1073
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 11: Tom and Sarah Gosan forever.

1074
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 5: So since then, in his fifty eight years as a

1075
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 5: non denominational pastor, hage has proven to be as much

1076
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 5: of a lightning rod as Wallace. When Hurricane Katrina killed

1077
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 5: nearly fourteen hundred people in New Orleans in two thousand

1078
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 5: and five, hage insisted the superstorm represented God's wrath at

1079
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 5: a planned gay pripride. I can't even believe that that's real. Yeah,

1080
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 5: so he really said, Oh, you celebrated the gays, and

1081
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 5: so God killed a bunch.

1082
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 7: Of you with a hurricane. He really said that.

1083
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 5: He's also called the Catholic Church a false cult and

1084
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 5: has falsely claimed that Muslims are commanded by the Qur'an

1085
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 5: to kill Christians in Jews. So he's a you know,

1086
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 5: really moderate guy when he comes to his word choice

1087
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 5: in his rhetoric.

1088
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 6: Hagey, for instance, believes that Jewish people are still God's chosen,

1089
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 6: and he often quotes a line from Genesis twelve three,

1090
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 6: twelfth chapter third verse in which God says to Abraham,

1091
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 6: I will bless those who bless you, and curse those

1092
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 6: who curse you, and he interprets that the mean that

1093
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 6: if the United States ever fails to support the State

1094
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 6: of Israel in any of its policies, or if it

1095
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 6: attempts to encourage Israel to trade land for peace, to

1096
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 6: set aside land for the Palestinians to establish their own nation,

1097
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 6: that that leader is violating a divine commandment to quote,

1098
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 6: not divide my land, and there will be terrible consequences.

1099
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 6: So I one dispensationalists pastor basically said that the United

1100
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 6: States has economic problems whenever it fails to support Israel.

1101
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 6: Hagey in twenty fourteen said that a small outbreak of

1102
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 6: the Ebola virus in the United States was God's vengeance

1103
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 6: against President Barack Obama for supporting the establishment of Palestinian state.

1104
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 6: And of course, when that is a big attitude amongst

1105
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:12,960
Speaker 6: a really significant block of voters, that makes the United

1106
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 6: States really have problems when it tries to mediate in

1107
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 6: that conflict.

1108
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 5: We'll talk a little bit more about John Hagey. Right

1109
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:36,439
Speaker 5: after this ad break, you might be asking, who cares

1110
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 5: about this guy John hagy Like, why does his interpretation

1111
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 5: of the Bible matter at all? Why does what he

1112
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 5: say have anything to do with my life? And there's

1113
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 5: a number of reasons why it matters. So, I mean,

1114
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 5: he could be considered the most important leader of the

1115
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 5: Christian Zionist movement for starters. He formed an organization in

1116
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 5: two thousand and six called Christians United for Israel, which

1117
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 5: has like a reported ten million members in the United States.

1118
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 5: Not sure how accurate or real that is, but you know,

1119
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 5: he has donated through his organizations more than fifty eight

1120
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 5: million dollars to right wing extremists in Israel's specifically ones

1121
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 5: that have you know, sponsored settlers to move to the

1122
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:20,600
Speaker 5: occupied West Bank.

1123
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 7: In you know, violation of international law.

1124
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:26,760
Speaker 5: And he's, you know, he's pushed Congress to take a

1125
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 5: hard line on the Palestinian issue of Palestinian statehood. He

1126
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 5: has the ear of elected officials in Texas state level

1127
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 5: politicians like Greg Gabbott and Dan Patrick have been seen

1128
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 5: with him at campaign events, have featured him at campaign events.

1129
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 5: Hagey has tried to you know, influence a number of

1130
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 5: issues and has had success. He was sought as someone

1131
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 5: whose endorsement mattered in the presidential elections of George H. W.

1132
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 7: Bush and George W. Bush.

1133
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 5: He was an early supporter of Donald Trump, and he

1134
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 5: influences the other major pastors as well, And so it's

1135
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:09,560
Speaker 5: hard to say that people like this don't matter, particularly

1136
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 5: whenever you know they have been invited to speak during

1137
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 5: big events like the March for Israel in twenty twenty three,

1138
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 5: which drew tens of thousands of people to Washington, DC.

1139
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 7: And who was there, John Hage.

1140
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 6: And here's one of the paradoxes of this movement. When

1141
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 6: Hage was invited to speak at this pro Israel event

1142
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 6: after the October seventh Hamas attacks in Neurope, Israeli Kibbutz

1143
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 6: Hage was invited and a lot of Jewish people were

1144
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 6: horrified because he really does capture one the central paradoxes

1145
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 6: of dispensationalism, and that is someone can be inflexibly pro

1146
01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 6: Israel in anti Semitic at the same time. And so

1147
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 6: John Hagen is promoted a very old anti Semitic myth

1148
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 6: that rich Jewish people control the world's finances. He talks

1149
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:15,440
Speaker 6: about the Rothschild family, which has always been an obsession

1150
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 6: of anti Semites. You know, the secret puppet masters of

1151
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:25,439
Speaker 6: the world, you know who rob the typical, the average

1152
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 6: person of money to gain wealth. They cause wars to

1153
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 6: enrich themselves. He actually described Hitler based on nothing as

1154
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:39,680
Speaker 6: a half breed Jew, and he said that Hitler was

1155
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:43,840
Speaker 6: sent by God himself. So he's Hitler was an emissary

1156
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 6: of God as a hunter to persecute Jews in Europe

1157
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 6: in the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties, specifically for the

1158
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:57,880
Speaker 6: purpose of forcing them to leave Europe and settle in Palestine.

1159
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 6: And you know, he said that this was all part

1160
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 6: of the Divine plan. Nazism was part of the Divine plan.

1161
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:07,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, but don't just take our word for it. You

1162
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 5: can listen to him say something along these lines right now, How.

1163
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 9: Did it happen because God allowed it to happen. Why

1164
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 9: did it happen because God said, my top priority for

1165
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 9: the Jewish people is to get them.

1166
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:22,879
Speaker 10: To come back to the land of Israel.

1167
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 9: Today Israel is back in the land, and they are

1168
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 9: at Hisequel thirty seven and eight. They're physically alive, but

1169
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 9: they're not spiritually alive. Now, how is God going to

1170
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 9: cause the Jewish people to come spiritually alive? And say,

1171
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 9: the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, he is God.

1172
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,480
Speaker 5: So yeah, you know, hege has predicted that the Antichrist

1173
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:47,800
Speaker 5: will be a half breed gay Jew and will rule

1174
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 5: the planet on behalf of Satan. Those are the kinds

1175
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 5: of things that he believes and he spreads. And in

1176
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 5: spite of statements like these, several Israeli governments have welcome

1177
01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 5: to the support of right wing and times past like Hagy.

1178
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 5: I mean, they don't have any issue with working with

1179
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,719
Speaker 5: someone like Hagy. And obviously that relationship is cynical because

1180
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:12,639
Speaker 5: you know, people like Hagy are able to help bring

1181
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:17,680
Speaker 5: material resources to Israel and further solidify the relationship that

1182
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:19,679
Speaker 5: Israel has with the state of Texas.

1183
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 6: And there's a real interesting synthusis between the far right

1184
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:31,719
Speaker 6: in Texas and the very right wing government that rules Israel.

1185
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 6: Now Israel depends on Texas oil. Many of the weapons

1186
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 6: Israel is using in its warren Gonza are manufactured in Texas,

1187
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 6: including in the Dallas Fort Worth area where Steve and

1188
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 6: I are having this conversation. You have some of the

1189
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 6: wealthiest American supporters of Israel, like hyper conservatives such as

1190
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 6: the widow of the casino magnate Sheldon Addison, who have

1191
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:07,120
Speaker 6: spent quite a bit of money flying Texas politicians like

1192
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 6: Governor Greg Abbott, the agricultural Commissioner, said Miller, members of

1193
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:16,839
Speaker 6: the state legislature to Israel to promote close business ties

1194
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 6: and to ensure that weapons manufactured in Texas and that

1195
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 6: Texas oil flows to that state.

1196
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 5: In the background of all of this is the money,

1197
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:33,599
Speaker 5: the money backing these politicians, and the largest and most

1198
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:36,720
Speaker 5: powerful political donor in Texas is someone who we have

1199
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:42,679
Speaker 5: mentioned already, billionaire oil man Tim Dunn. So Tim Dunn,

1200
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 5: who is he? What's his deal? He's a pastor, He's

1201
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:50,679
Speaker 5: based in Midland, which is in West Texas, and over

1202
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 5: the last decade, Dunn has dumped tens of millions of

1203
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 5: dollars into the campaign coffers of far right politicians and

1204
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 5: political action committees that promote sendiary messages, including the one

1205
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 5: group that I previously mentioned was caught meeting with a

1206
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 5: self admitted Hitler fan, Nick went Is. Nevertheless, Dunn is

1207
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 5: named alongside Hagey on the annual list of Israel's top

1208
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 5: fifty Christian Allies published by the Israel Allies Foundation, of

1209
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 5: which Done incidentally is the chairman of the It's like

1210
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 5: the Christian Advisory Board.

1211
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:31,600
Speaker 3: So yeah, this really really.

1212
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 5: Powerful donor who has his thumb on the scales all

1213
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 5: across the state. He too is an End Times prophecy believer.

1214
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 5: And he's not just a believer. He preaches it at

1215
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:46,759
Speaker 5: his own church in Midland, where he's a pastor.

1216
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:52,519
Speaker 8: God is a consuming fire taking vengeance on those who

1217
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:54,720
Speaker 8: do not know God and on those who do not

1218
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:58,639
Speaker 8: obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. The word

1219
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 8: obey means listen to, So we're talking here about unbelievers.

1220
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 8: These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence

1221
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 8: of the Lord and from the glory of His power.

1222
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 5: And you know, it's completely changed the nature of the

1223
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 5: Republican Party his influence. They were already conservative and already

1224
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 5: religious to begin with, but the sort of wave of

1225
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:23,360
Speaker 5: politicians that have been supported by Dunn has taken that

1226
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:24,800
Speaker 5: to a new level.

1227
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:31,679
Speaker 6: And you know, I mean it's resulted in, I think,

1228
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 6: a real assault on free speech in the state of Texas.

1229
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 6: We have religious groups like Christians United for Israel in

1230
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 6: the Texas Eagle Forum lobbing the state legislature and persuading

1231
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:51,519
Speaker 6: politicians like Greg Abbott and Dan Patrick were sympathetic to

1232
01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:57,240
Speaker 6: their agenda to pass laws that limit the way people

1233
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:02,600
Speaker 6: who oppose Israeli policies can protests. So, for instance, twenty seventeen,

1234
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:06,560
Speaker 6: Texas passed Hospill eighty nine, a law that banned the

1235
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:10,120
Speaker 6: stay from doing any business with any company or individual

1236
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:13,720
Speaker 6: contractors who participate in the boycott of Israel that many

1237
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:17,760
Speaker 6: activists have participated in. And on March twenty seventh of

1238
01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 6: this year, when you began to have a wave of

1239
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:25,800
Speaker 6: protests across the nation and in Texas, and there were

1240
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 6: major protests at the UT Austin campus at the University

1241
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 6: of Texas at Dallas, which is in a suburb called Richardson,

1242
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 6: another one at the University of North Texas UT Arlington,

1243
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:44,639
Speaker 6: University of Texas at San Antonio. Abbott responded to these

1244
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 6: protests by issuing an executive order that defined a common

1245
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 6: slogan chanted by supporters of Palestinian statehood from the River

1246
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:59,599
Speaker 6: to the Sea Palace Steine will be Free, as anti

1247
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:04,839
Speaker 6: SeMet and it required public colleges and universities to review

1248
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 6: their free speech policies and to punish what the state

1249
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 6: regards as anti Semitic speech by faculty and students. And

1250
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:19,440
Speaker 6: it targeted two specific groups, two student groups, the Palestine

1251
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:23,720
Speaker 6: Solidarity Committee and students for Justice and Palestine to be

1252
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 6: disciplined for violating these policies the State of Texas saying

1253
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 6: these words are forbidden.

1254
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 5: Indeed, and despite the fact that the University of Texas

1255
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:40,439
Speaker 5: at Austin had issued a video celebrating their so called

1256
01:17:40,479 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 5: free speech Week, I think it was just a matter

1257
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 5: of months before they arrested one hundred and thirty six

1258
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:48,680
Speaker 5: pro Palestinian.

1259
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,679
Speaker 7: Demonstrators at the University of Texas at Austin.

1260
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:54,920
Speaker 5: All across the state, we've seen pro Palestinian protests or

1261
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:57,360
Speaker 5: what you could call anti genocide protests or calls for

1262
01:17:57,479 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 5: divestment at these various universities, and arrests have happened at

1263
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:04,480
Speaker 5: least three different universities.

1264
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:10,679
Speaker 6: I mentioned earlier a paradox in dispensationalism, and that is

1265
01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:15,479
Speaker 6: that some of the people who have absolute devotion to

1266
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:19,800
Speaker 6: promoting the state of Israel are at the same time antisemitic.

1267
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 6: And another paradox is that Schofield himself, Cyrus Schofield himself

1268
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:31,679
Speaker 6: said that Jesus wasn't into politics. He said that when

1269
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 6: Jesus was alive, slavery, inequality of wealth, all of these

1270
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 6: political pressure were all at their worse and Jesus and

1271
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:45,240
Speaker 6: his apostles didn't address any of that. They focus on salvation.

1272
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:49,160
Speaker 6: That Christianity is not about changing this world, because this

1273
01:18:49,240 --> 01:18:51,800
Speaker 6: world is doomed and the only person who's going to

1274
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 6: fix anything is Jesus himself. But nevertheless, these dispensationalists at

1275
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:02,200
Speaker 6: the same time are very happy to be involved in

1276
01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 6: politics that's not involved in social or form. They don't

1277
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:08,479
Speaker 6: want you to. You know, Schofield was living at a

1278
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:11,559
Speaker 6: time of progressive movement when they were trying to end

1279
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 6: child labor, trying to make workplaces safer, and so on.

1280
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 6: Today we're dealing with issues of wealth, inequality and so on.

1281
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 6: The dispensationalists will say, believing that humans can fix those

1282
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:28,080
Speaker 6: problems with satanic But nevertheless, you should be involved in

1283
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:32,040
Speaker 6: politics if it involves denying women sovereignty over their bodies,

1284
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:39,559
Speaker 6: if it involves banning people from gender affirming care and

1285
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:43,200
Speaker 6: so on, but that politics is okay and so and

1286
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:46,640
Speaker 6: we see this with this activism and trying to suppress

1287
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 6: a particular side of the Israel Palestine.

1288
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:54,559
Speaker 5: Debate, right, And I think that if that strain of

1289
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 5: dispensationalism that's Schofield represented, that sort of a political dispensationalism.

1290
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:03,160
Speaker 5: If it still exists, it is certainly no longer dominant

1291
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:07,240
Speaker 5: because today, you know, we're seeing this end times theology,

1292
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:11,400
Speaker 5: this belief in this theory around the end times, it's

1293
01:20:11,439 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 5: increasingly overlapping with other sort of distinct trends in Christianity.

1294
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:21,519
Speaker 5: So on the one hand, there's things like the prosperity Gospel,

1295
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:25,120
Speaker 5: which is, you know, best represented by Kenneth Copeland. He's

1296
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:29,240
Speaker 5: the richest pastor in all of the United States, and

1297
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 5: his whole thing is, yeah, if you know you give,

1298
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 5: you get and so you give me your money and

1299
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:37,200
Speaker 5: you prove that you're you know, holy person, you will

1300
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 5: be rewarded. In turn, you will be healed, all of

1301
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:42,040
Speaker 5: your things will be solved. And then the other thing

1302
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:45,080
Speaker 5: that it's overlapping with this end times theology belief is

1303
01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 5: what you know, we might just call the Seven Mountains

1304
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:56,640
Speaker 5: dominionist trend or dominionism broadly speaking, which you may or

1305
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:58,559
Speaker 5: may not be familiar with, but it really just breaks

1306
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:04,360
Speaker 5: down to this idea that Christians should be at the

1307
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:08,880
Speaker 5: top of all of the mountains of society, and these

1308
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 5: are just you know, basically stand ins for the segments

1309
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:18,760
Speaker 5: of society they think are important, so education, media, politics,

1310
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 5: what have you. This is a really growing idea as

1311
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:26,360
Speaker 5: a sort of meme in right wing Christianity in these

1312
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:32,639
Speaker 5: sort of non denominational churches, which are the fastest growing

1313
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:34,960
Speaker 5: and largest segment of churches I think we're talking about.

1314
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:37,639
Speaker 6: And those dominionists are the ones who are taking over

1315
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:43,040
Speaker 6: these school boards that are adopting the anti trans policies

1316
01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:45,040
Speaker 6: and also banning the books.

1317
01:21:45,080 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 5: That's right, and it is a very active form of Christianity,

1318
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:53,080
Speaker 5: very politically active, and so through people like Hagey and

1319
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:57,120
Speaker 5: you know, people like Tim Dunn, we see that embodied

1320
01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:00,320
Speaker 5: in what they do. The sort of advocate can see

1321
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,559
Speaker 5: that John Hagy takes part in in the millions and

1322
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:07,240
Speaker 5: millions of dollars that Tim Dunn dumps into the state

1323
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:08,360
Speaker 5: of Texas.

1324
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:12,360
Speaker 6: And you could almost characterize the Republican Party in Texas,

1325
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 6: which is one of the most important state wings of

1326
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:19,360
Speaker 6: the Republican Party in the United States, as a wholly

1327
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:23,960
Speaker 6: owned done subsidiary. You know. He really many of the

1328
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:29,120
Speaker 6: most infamous Texas politicians in this era, such as Ken Paxton,

1329
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 6: are generously supported by Dounn. And so I think that

1330
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:36,960
Speaker 6: if we kind of wrap this up, I think that

1331
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 6: we could say that the disdain from activism that dispensationalists

1332
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:47,960
Speaker 6: claim is a ruse that activism is bad if it

1333
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:55,800
Speaker 6: advances any attempt to create equal opportunity, reduce income inequality.

1334
01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 6: And dispensationalists vote and they with Texas as one of

1335
01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:07,760
Speaker 6: the major bases for dispensationalism, they are a hugely influential

1336
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:14,040
Speaker 6: budding block. Thirty nine percent of Americans have told polsters

1337
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:17,760
Speaker 6: that they believe we're living in the end times. And

1338
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:19,680
Speaker 6: the simple fact is, if you think the world's going

1339
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:22,240
Speaker 6: to end, you're not going to invest much time in

1340
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:25,320
Speaker 6: making the world better, making it a more just place.

1341
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 6: You're not going to try to clean the water, clean

1342
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:33,720
Speaker 6: the air. Half of Evangelical Protestants in the United States

1343
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:38,880
Speaker 6: believe that supporting Israel is absolutely essential to fulfilling Bible prophecy,

1344
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:44,880
Speaker 6: and that group constitutes a third of all adult Texans.

1345
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,639
Speaker 6: And they want to love Israel to death because they

1346
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 6: believe that if they push Israel to annex the West Bank,

1347
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:58,799
Speaker 6: to take the most aggressive standards Palestinians, that will provoke

1348
01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:02,360
Speaker 6: the of the Antichrist, which will lead to arm again.

1349
01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:05,559
Speaker 6: And they're willing to make that sacrifice. They're willing to

1350
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 6: fight for the Second Coming to happen down to the

1351
01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 6: last Jewish person. And this is creating instability for the

1352
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 6: world and putting the United States in a very difficult

1353
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:22,000
Speaker 6: place in the world stage, and the chain of events

1354
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:27,760
Speaker 6: leading to our position currently visa the Middle East can

1355
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:29,240
Speaker 6: be drawn back to this state.

1356
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:29,840
Speaker 2: That's right.

1357
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:32,280
Speaker 5: And I think one thing that I really want to

1358
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:37,840
Speaker 5: emphasize that we haven't dived into as much as we

1359
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:42,200
Speaker 5: could have, is that this sort of belief system tends

1360
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:46,559
Speaker 5: towards dehumanization. So if you believe that your opponents are

1361
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 5: in league with the devil, or are Satanic, or are

1362
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 5: doing the bidding of evil, and that you are on

1363
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:57,880
Speaker 5: the side of good unequivocally and you are doing the

1364
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 5: Lord's work, it is e easy to treat your opponents

1365
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:08,840
Speaker 5: as inhuman, less than human, to see them as other

1366
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 5: than someone who has equal rights and equal standing.

1367
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 6: And if you're wondering if it could happen here, it

1368
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:20,160
Speaker 6: meaning fascism in many ways. It's happened in Texas already,

1369
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:23,760
Speaker 6: and we have a large population here. As they wait

1370
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:26,680
Speaker 6: for the end, they're building walls around the lives of

1371
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:29,160
Speaker 6: more than thirty million people who live in this state.

1372
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:55,280
Speaker 12: I'm Stephen MANCHELLI, I'm Michael Phillips. Thank you for listening.

1373
01:25:56,200 --> 01:26:04,960
Speaker 2: Oh what indicted by the FBI, my several people I

1374
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:08,320
Speaker 2: don't like it could happen here a podcast about things

1375
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:11,679
Speaker 2: falling apart, and today this week, well for the last

1376
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:14,759
Speaker 2: couple of weeks, the thing that's fallen apart is Tenet Media.

1377
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:18,200
Speaker 2: This is not related to Christopher Nolan, that we can

1378
01:26:18,280 --> 01:26:21,840
Speaker 2: prove at this exact moment. It is instead a media

1379
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 2: adventure starring a bunch of assholes that turned out to

1380
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:27,519
Speaker 2: all be an op by the Russian government, and none

1381
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:29,960
Speaker 2: of said assholes claim they knew anything, even though they

1382
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:32,880
Speaker 2: got paid one hundred thousand dollars a video. Anyway, We're

1383
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 2: going to talk about all that and more today, but

1384
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:38,320
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring onto the program now my co hosts,

1385
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:41,439
Speaker 2: Garrison Davis and James Stout.

1386
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:42,000
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1387
01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:44,600
Speaker 13: I'm not getting one hundred k per episode here, but

1388
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:48,040
Speaker 13: if I was, I certainly wouldn't tell the government now

1389
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 13: that it was actually a foreign government that's saying me.

1390
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:52,479
Speaker 10: I would keep tweeting about it.

1391
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:55,559
Speaker 2: Fun fact about both of you guys, Before we get

1392
01:26:55,560 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 2: into this. If you reverse your last names, you sound

1393
01:26:58,320 --> 01:26:59,919
Speaker 2: like Confederate era generals.

1394
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:02,519
Speaker 10: Garrison Stout, James Davis like.

1395
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:03,920
Speaker 2: Names Davis s Garrison Stout.

1396
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:07,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, oh yeah, all right, yeah, yeah, that's sod. That

1397
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:09,519
Speaker 10: is our secret backstory. We had to actually switch them

1398
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 10: when we joined cool Zone Media due to a Confederate tie.

1399
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:15,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the fact that you're one hundred and ninety

1400
01:27:15,160 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 2: years old. So Garrison, you want to take us off here?

1401
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:20,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1402
01:27:20,439 --> 01:27:24,040
Speaker 13: So Tene Media was this kind of small right wings

1403
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:27,599
Speaker 13: startup that hired a whole bunch of more well known

1404
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:31,080
Speaker 13: content creators on the right wing sphere, from like Tim Poole,

1405
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 13: Dave Rubin, Benny Johnson, Lauren Southern. Yeah, people who are

1406
01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:37,679
Speaker 13: either just like conservative commentators or you know, in someone

1407
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 13: like Lauren Southern's case has been like an alt right

1408
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:42,400
Speaker 13: kind of white supremacist media figure for quite a while.

1409
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:45,040
Speaker 13: And they put together this little collection of people to

1410
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:47,720
Speaker 13: make like content for Tenants on YouTube channel as well

1411
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:52,160
Speaker 13: as licensing some of their regular content. And this company

1412
01:27:52,479 --> 01:27:57,519
Speaker 13: was ostensibly started by another right wing YouTuber named Lauren

1413
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 13: Chen and her husband Liam Donovan. Chen's been like on

1414
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:04,960
Speaker 13: Fox News News Max Daily Wire and was employed at

1415
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:08,640
Speaker 13: the Blaze, where she's no longer employed based on the

1416
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:13,320
Speaker 13: allocations inside this DOJ indictment. So yeah, it was a

1417
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:17,200
Speaker 13: small collection, not super kind of noteworthy. Honestly, in a

1418
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:19,439
Speaker 13: lot of cases, lots of people weren't super familiar with

1419
01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 13: tenet media. I know they also hired like Taylor Hanson,

1420
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:24,800
Speaker 13: who was kind of one of the first guys to

1421
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:28,599
Speaker 13: report on grooming LGBTQ stuff like a few years ago.

1422
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:31,280
Speaker 2: That's kind of what was immediately weird about them to

1423
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:33,559
Speaker 2: everyone who pays attention to this stuff is that their

1424
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:36,519
Speaker 2: videos did not get a crazy amount of engagement. They

1425
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:39,759
Speaker 2: were clearly not an established like they came out of nowhere,

1426
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:42,200
Speaker 2: but they had money, the money to pay for people

1427
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:45,800
Speaker 2: who weren't cheap. Timpool, if you don't know, Tim is

1428
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 2: one of the most profitable influencers on the right wing

1429
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:51,920
Speaker 2: chunks of the Internet. He's a guy who kind of

1430
01:28:51,920 --> 01:28:55,240
Speaker 2: got his start as a citizen journalist during occupy. Really,

1431
01:28:55,280 --> 01:28:56,559
Speaker 2: he's one of these guys. All he does is he

1432
01:28:56,600 --> 01:28:59,639
Speaker 2: gets on he reads news articles, he reads the headlines

1433
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:02,799
Speaker 2: of news articles. He talks about how we're all doomed

1434
01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:07,439
Speaker 2: to left wing terrorism or whatever, and then he makes

1435
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:10,800
Speaker 2: millions of dollars. He's a frustrating individual to say the least,

1436
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:14,120
Speaker 2: but he doesn't come cheap, and Hansen also doesn't come cheap.

1437
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:17,720
Speaker 2: Dave Rubin is not an inexpensive person to bring onto

1438
01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:19,600
Speaker 2: your team. So it was kind of clear from the

1439
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:22,360
Speaker 2: beginning there's a lot of money behind this thing that

1440
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:25,000
Speaker 2: seems to have come out of nowhere. Whose money is it?

1441
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:27,400
Speaker 13: And that is what the federal government's been trying to

1442
01:29:27,439 --> 01:29:31,439
Speaker 13: figure out. And we have now a better indication on

1443
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:34,559
Speaker 13: where all of these kind of right wing content firms,

1444
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:37,280
Speaker 13: or at least this one who's employing some very unforunch

1445
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:40,439
Speaker 13: of people, where they are getting some of their money from.

1446
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:42,920
Speaker 13: Because there's a lot of money flying around this space.

1447
01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:45,160
Speaker 13: Lots of these guys are obviously filled by like fossil

1448
01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:46,560
Speaker 13: fuel billionaires.

1449
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:46,760
Speaker 6: Right.

1450
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:49,000
Speaker 13: You can look at like the early funding for The

1451
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:51,360
Speaker 13: Daily Wired that has a lot of money, but for this,

1452
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:55,880
Speaker 13: for this smaller, kind of lesser known company, how are

1453
01:29:55,880 --> 01:29:58,599
Speaker 13: they paying one hundred thousand dollars per episode to these guys?

1454
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:03,559
Speaker 2: And it's also the Daily Wire definitely started inorganically by

1455
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:05,840
Speaker 2: getting a lot of fossil fuel money pumped into it.

1456
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:07,120
Speaker 2: But one thing you have to hand it to them,

1457
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:10,360
Speaker 2: is they built a business that is a functional business, right,

1458
01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:13,880
Speaker 2: they are now profitable in their own regard, or at

1459
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:16,840
Speaker 2: least were. There's some evidence their traffic collapsed recently, but

1460
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:19,479
Speaker 2: you saw you saw them have a growth curve that

1461
01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:23,679
Speaker 2: looked pretty organic for a media organization, which you didn't

1462
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:24,880
Speaker 2: see with Tenant.

1463
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:25,519
Speaker 3: No no.

1464
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:29,120
Speaker 13: And it seems the only way to actually pay these

1465
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:32,040
Speaker 13: millions and millions of dollars to all these people is

1466
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:35,320
Speaker 13: if you are actually the government of Russia who is

1467
01:30:35,680 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 13: starting covert operations that's their words, not mine, to influence

1468
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:44,879
Speaker 13: the US election by like both talking about like Ukraine,

1469
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:48,000
Speaker 13: using these mouthpieces, but also just kind of so general division,

1470
01:30:48,040 --> 01:30:50,000
Speaker 13: which seems to be kind of the main tactic. And

1471
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:55,240
Speaker 13: Robert elected to actually go through some of this g's

1472
01:30:55,280 --> 01:30:58,880
Speaker 13: twenty three page indictment and kind of hopefully we can

1473
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:00,559
Speaker 13: find some of some of the some of the better

1474
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:03,879
Speaker 13: funnier little tidbits here, because there's a lot of interesting

1475
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:07,559
Speaker 13: information about kind of the inter workings of some of

1476
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:13,280
Speaker 13: these media groups and how exactly Timpoole was convinced by

1477
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:14,720
Speaker 13: a Russian agent.

1478
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:19,480
Speaker 10: Yeah, a Russian agent pretending to be three different people.

1479
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:22,920
Speaker 13: Pretending to be some mysterious European billionaire.

1480
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:26,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the document starts with some stuff that I

1481
01:31:26,920 --> 01:31:29,519
Speaker 2: had been unaware, which is that you know, because Russia

1482
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:34,320
Speaker 2: Today is kind of the first large Russian government affiliated

1483
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:37,160
Speaker 2: media organization that has been like putting up propaganda in

1484
01:31:37,160 --> 01:31:40,960
Speaker 2: the United States, and the FBI has been watching them

1485
01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:43,320
Speaker 2: like a hawk. And so they quote here from the

1486
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:46,920
Speaker 2: editor in chief of RT after the expanded Russian invasion

1487
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:50,599
Speaker 2: in February twenty twenty two, when he describes Russia Today,

1488
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 2: which has always argued that it's a legitimate news organization,

1489
01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:58,080
Speaker 2: as an entire empire of covert projects designed to shape

1490
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 2: public opinion in Western audiences. And one of these covert

1491
01:32:02,080 --> 01:32:05,040
Speaker 2: projects it described as the funding of what we now

1492
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:07,719
Speaker 2: know is Tenant Media. Right, it's described in these documents

1493
01:32:07,720 --> 01:32:10,799
Speaker 2: because their indictments as a Tennessee based online creation company,

1494
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:14,040
Speaker 2: but it's it can only be referring to Tenant Media.

1495
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:16,960
Speaker 13: As employees have since admitted that, yes, it is for

1496
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:17,920
Speaker 13: sure to Tenant Media.

1497
01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:20,240
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, there's no doubt about this. We're not like

1498
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:22,360
Speaker 2: reading into the what the FED said here at all.

1499
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:22,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1500
01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:26,200
Speaker 2: So they spent over the course of about a year

1501
01:32:26,640 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 2: ten million dollars. I think it's actually was more like

1502
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:31,360
Speaker 2: nine point six, but ten million dollars basically just buying

1503
01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:32,400
Speaker 2: these influencers.

1504
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:33,800
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

1505
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:38,280
Speaker 2: First off, things we could do with ten million dollars yeah,

1506
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:41,040
Speaker 2: oh oh, James, we'd be sailing to me and Maar

1507
01:32:41,160 --> 01:32:45,760
Speaker 2: and on a pallet kill rocket launchers.

1508
01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:49,759
Speaker 10: The things that their military could do with ten billion dollars.

1509
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:53,639
Speaker 2: That's sending dude to the front with as off plates. Yeah,

1510
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:57,840
Speaker 2: it's anyway. Whatever. So the kind of key detail there

1511
01:32:57,960 --> 01:33:00,479
Speaker 2: is how much they were making per one of these

1512
01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:04,879
Speaker 2: dog shit videos, which is about one hundred thousand dollars

1513
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:07,400
Speaker 2: per YouTube video. That's what Tim was getting. I think

1514
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 2: Dave Rubin was getting close to just half a million

1515
01:33:09,479 --> 01:33:12,679
Speaker 2: a month to do like a weekly video. So when

1516
01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:14,360
Speaker 2: that is the kind of money we're.

1517
01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 13: Talking about, and Tim was also being paid one hundred

1518
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:19,800
Speaker 13: thousand dollars per weekly video as well. He was making

1519
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:21,880
Speaker 13: one video a week. That was what he decided on

1520
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:24,760
Speaker 13: his contract. So he's breaking in at least four hundred thousand,

1521
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:27,080
Speaker 13: if not five hundred thousand dollars a month.

1522
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:30,360
Speaker 10: Yeah, and then they had signing and download bonuses on

1523
01:33:30,360 --> 01:33:31,040
Speaker 10: top of that.

1524
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:34,360
Speaker 2: Which is like even for them is more than you

1525
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 2: could get on YouTube for the kind of traffic that

1526
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:40,240
Speaker 2: they get. That is that is like the top one

1527
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:43,240
Speaker 2: percent of the top one percent of YouTube creators are

1528
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:46,479
Speaker 2: making money like that, and certainly no one with the

1529
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:48,759
Speaker 2: kind of views these tenivities we're getting. So anyway, Garrison,

1530
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:49,679
Speaker 2: you've got a clip to play.

1531
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:52,760
Speaker 13: Yeah, here's here's a here's a clip that's definitely a

1532
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:56,120
Speaker 13: totally genuine opinion. Not impacted by those one hundred thousand

1533
01:33:56,200 --> 01:33:59,640
Speaker 13: dollars of Tim Poole talking about Ukraine.

1534
01:33:59,479 --> 01:34:01,800
Speaker 10: Trigger war, most annoying man on earth.

1535
01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:06,200
Speaker 14: This is psychotic. Ukraine is the enemy of this country.

1536
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:10,240
Speaker 14: Ukraine is our enemy being funded by the Democrats. I

1537
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:13,160
Speaker 14: will stress again one of the greatest enemies of our

1538
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:17,920
Speaker 14: nation right now is Ukraine. They are expanding this war now,

1539
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:20,799
Speaker 14: don't get me wrong. I know you've got criminal elements

1540
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:22,840
Speaker 14: of the US government pushing them and guiding them and

1541
01:34:22,840 --> 01:34:27,320
Speaker 14: telling them what to do. Ukraine is now accused a

1542
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:30,160
Speaker 14: German warrant issued for blowing up the nord Stream pipeline

1543
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:37,320
Speaker 14: in triggering this conflict. Ukraine is the greatest threat to

1544
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:40,559
Speaker 14: this nation and to the world. We should rescind all

1545
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:44,120
Speaker 14: funding and financing, pull out all military support, and we

1546
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:45,800
Speaker 14: should apologize to Russia.

1547
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:49,680
Speaker 13: Interesting, I wonder what would compel a man to say that, huh, curious,

1548
01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:50,799
Speaker 13: very curious.

1549
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:54,000
Speaker 2: There's no way to know garrison. So, since they publicly

1550
01:34:54,080 --> 01:34:58,080
Speaker 2: launched in November of last year, Tenant Media posted almost

1551
01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:01,800
Speaker 2: two thousand videos. I got about sixteen million views. And

1552
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:04,040
Speaker 2: sixteen million views is a lot for a YouTube channel,

1553
01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:06,479
Speaker 2: but not if you've put out two thousand videos. So again,

1554
01:35:06,520 --> 01:35:08,040
Speaker 2: that's what I mean when I say, like, this is

1555
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:11,280
Speaker 2: not the kind of audience that you would get this

1556
01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:15,320
Speaker 2: kind of money organically for, right, Like this was obviously

1557
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:18,920
Speaker 2: and I mentioned this because this is obviously suspicious to

1558
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:22,320
Speaker 2: the creators. You cannot be Timpoole is not a smart man,

1559
01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:25,720
Speaker 2: but you cannot work for YouTube the way that he

1560
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:28,360
Speaker 2: has and not know that something is fucked up with

1561
01:35:28,400 --> 01:35:29,240
Speaker 2: the money.

1562
01:35:29,320 --> 01:35:31,880
Speaker 10: Just if you're not a mental arithmetician like myself. That

1563
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:34,479
Speaker 10: is eight thousand views video. Yeah, I made a video

1564
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:37,000
Speaker 10: once about how to use hiking polls, which has around

1565
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:37,879
Speaker 10: that many views.

1566
01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:41,000
Speaker 2: I have a video that I fucked up when filming

1567
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:44,280
Speaker 2: another video while I was reviewing products fifteen years ago,

1568
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:46,840
Speaker 2: before anyone knew who I was that has more than.

1569
01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:50,800
Speaker 10: Eight years, Like where's all money, Vladimir.

1570
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:53,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, come on, Vladimir, Like I'll there's a lot

1571
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:54,759
Speaker 2: I'll do for half a million dollars.

1572
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:57,320
Speaker 13: Well, And I think part of this as well is

1573
01:35:57,360 --> 01:36:01,000
Speaker 13: not just trying to prop up ten and own news itself.

1574
01:36:01,360 --> 01:36:06,280
Speaker 13: It's making these specific content creators lives more comfortable, because

1575
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:09,080
Speaker 13: the better that these guys do, that's all that Russia

1576
01:36:09,120 --> 01:36:12,280
Speaker 13: is like interested in, as alleged in this document, right,

1577
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:14,280
Speaker 13: It's that they just want to make sure that these

1578
01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:17,120
Speaker 13: guys can still talk about Ukraine as certainly as like

1579
01:36:17,160 --> 01:36:20,400
Speaker 13: this like evil and how Russia is like the traditionalist

1580
01:36:20,479 --> 01:36:24,360
Speaker 13: Christian empire and right wing resistance to globalist domination. But

1581
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:27,639
Speaker 13: in terms of like just wanting to amplify US domestic

1582
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:30,799
Speaker 13: divisions in order to weaken US opposition to core government

1583
01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:34,800
Speaker 13: of Russia's interests in the ongoing war in Ukraine. As

1584
01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:36,600
Speaker 13: said in the document, all they need to do is

1585
01:36:36,640 --> 01:36:38,519
Speaker 13: just make sure these guys are having a lot of money,

1586
01:36:38,560 --> 01:36:40,120
Speaker 13: so like their comfortable tenant doesn't need to be like

1587
01:36:40,120 --> 01:36:43,120
Speaker 13: a successful media operation where like they're making more money

1588
01:36:43,160 --> 01:36:46,439
Speaker 13: on YouTube than they're paying their influences. And that's not

1589
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:48,599
Speaker 13: the point. The point is just to give these guys

1590
01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:51,160
Speaker 13: a lot of money to keep talking the way they're talking.

1591
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:51,559
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1592
01:36:51,720 --> 01:36:53,760
Speaker 2: What was also interesting to me, and this comes from

1593
01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:56,759
Speaker 2: a Wired article. Wired downloaded as many of these videos

1594
01:36:56,760 --> 01:36:58,800
Speaker 2: as they could and then ran them through. This is

1595
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:01,519
Speaker 2: actually one of the un journalistic uses for these large

1596
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:04,360
Speaker 2: language models. They ran them through like one of those

1597
01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:08,599
Speaker 2: machine learning algorithms to just kind of look at how

1598
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:11,800
Speaker 2: often different subjects are mentioned, because no human being could

1599
01:37:11,880 --> 01:37:15,320
Speaker 2: analyze that many videos with any kind of like speed, right,

1600
01:37:15,880 --> 01:37:19,360
Speaker 2: And one thing they found is that Ukraine, which you

1601
01:37:19,400 --> 01:37:22,640
Speaker 2: would imagine being the focus of a horrific war that

1602
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:27,000
Speaker 2: is bleeding. Russia's military was mentioned about like a third

1603
01:37:27,160 --> 01:37:31,080
Speaker 2: as often as transgender people. The vast majority of the

1604
01:37:31,120 --> 01:37:35,280
Speaker 2: content was US culture war stuff right like woke is

1605
01:37:35,439 --> 01:37:38,080
Speaker 2: much more of a focus than anything to do directly

1606
01:37:38,600 --> 01:37:42,680
Speaker 2: with Russian military operations or Russian like government like what

1607
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:44,600
Speaker 2: you would imagine, right, And the reason for that is

1608
01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:48,000
Speaker 2: that they see it as number one, building a sense

1609
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:52,720
Speaker 2: of solidarity between American conservatives and Russia, which is largely imaginary.

1610
01:37:52,760 --> 01:37:54,720
Speaker 2: I'll be talking about this in an episode later, but

1611
01:37:54,760 --> 01:37:57,400
Speaker 2: like Russia is not the country a lot of conservatives

1612
01:37:57,400 --> 01:37:59,639
Speaker 2: in the US think it is. But more to the point,

1613
01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:03,320
Speaker 2: it's just sort of stoking division, right, rather than actually

1614
01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:07,000
Speaker 2: needing to change American minds on Ukraine in much of

1615
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:09,160
Speaker 2: a concerted way. Like if you kind of keep them

1616
01:38:09,240 --> 01:38:13,280
Speaker 2: ginned up and angry about everything the quote unquote left

1617
01:38:13,320 --> 01:38:17,880
Speaker 2: is doing, they will be against supporting Ukrainian resistance anyway, right,

1618
01:38:17,960 --> 01:38:21,360
Speaker 2: And that's the bet the Russians made, very very astutely,

1619
01:38:21,479 --> 01:38:23,880
Speaker 2: and it seems to be paying off for them. One

1620
01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:26,200
Speaker 2: of the more interesting facts here is that one of

1621
01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:28,639
Speaker 2: the primary contacts, this is one of the people who

1622
01:38:28,640 --> 01:38:31,719
Speaker 2: has been indicted, who was working with you know, Pool

1623
01:38:31,760 --> 01:38:35,320
Speaker 2: and these other creators, is an employee of Russia today

1624
01:38:35,680 --> 01:38:41,240
Speaker 2: with the perfect spy name, Constantine Kalashnikov. Just amazing stuff.

1625
01:38:42,880 --> 01:38:45,800
Speaker 3: How is that literally their day? Yeah? How do they

1626
01:38:45,800 --> 01:38:46,720
Speaker 3: not just change it?

1627
01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:50,320
Speaker 2: We call it a Kalashnikov because the guy's name was Kalashnikov.

1628
01:38:51,160 --> 01:38:54,879
Speaker 13: It's just lovely, it's just beautiful.

1629
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:56,800
Speaker 2: It's breathtaking because if you put a character with that

1630
01:38:56,880 --> 01:38:59,040
Speaker 2: name in a Bond film, everyone would be like, come on, man,

1631
01:38:59,080 --> 01:39:01,519
Speaker 2: it's not nineteen sixty five anymore. What are we doing here?

1632
01:39:01,880 --> 01:39:05,600
Speaker 2: But that that's just the person's actual name. It beautiful.

1633
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:09,879
Speaker 2: So they had a couple of fake personas within the company,

1634
01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:13,600
Speaker 2: but this was a person who like directly talked to

1635
01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:17,400
Speaker 2: the employees of people like Pool, the editors and whatnot

1636
01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:20,639
Speaker 2: without disclosing that he worked at Russia. Today now there's

1637
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:24,080
Speaker 2: evidence that people who worked for some of these creators

1638
01:39:24,479 --> 01:39:27,360
Speaker 2: in their discords, like editors and whatnot, saw this as

1639
01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:30,680
Speaker 2: deeply suspicious. Probably the most interesting came from when we

1640
01:39:30,720 --> 01:39:33,760
Speaker 2: now know it was Tucker Carlson posted a video during

1641
01:39:33,760 --> 01:39:35,800
Speaker 2: his trip in Moscow like where he was going to

1642
01:39:35,840 --> 01:39:38,559
Speaker 2: a Russian grocery store to be like, look, Russia has

1643
01:39:38,600 --> 01:39:42,519
Speaker 2: grocery stores. Everything's fine here. His editor in the discord

1644
01:39:42,600 --> 01:39:45,519
Speaker 2: was like, this seems like a little much what are

1645
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:48,880
Speaker 2: we doing here basically, and the statement made was along

1646
01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:51,120
Speaker 2: the lines of like, you know, this is what the

1647
01:39:51,160 --> 01:39:54,599
Speaker 2: people paying us want us to get out right, which

1648
01:39:54,640 --> 01:39:57,680
Speaker 2: is clear evidence that people were aware of what they

1649
01:39:57,680 --> 01:39:59,320
Speaker 2: were doing to some extent.

1650
01:39:59,439 --> 01:40:02,240
Speaker 13: At least among like the tenant media producers, there was

1651
01:40:02,479 --> 01:40:06,640
Speaker 13: a growing awareness of what was actually going on. Obviously,

1652
01:40:06,720 --> 01:40:09,280
Speaker 13: all of the on air talent still maintains that they

1653
01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:12,599
Speaker 13: are the victims of an international conspiracy.

1654
01:40:12,160 --> 01:40:15,440
Speaker 2: In a victim pays, I guess, oh.

1655
01:40:15,200 --> 01:40:17,800
Speaker 13: My god, and no, I think one of one of

1656
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:22,920
Speaker 13: the funniest parts is definitely this fake European businessman. I

1657
01:40:22,960 --> 01:40:26,880
Speaker 13: believe he's referred to as Edward Grengorian.

1658
01:40:27,240 --> 01:40:28,439
Speaker 3: Yes, this was very funny, but.

1659
01:40:28,479 --> 01:40:31,400
Speaker 2: We'll talk about Edward. Let's let's throw to ads first

1660
01:40:31,439 --> 01:40:44,320
Speaker 2: and then we'll get back to this and we're back, Garrison,

1661
01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:45,599
Speaker 2: Let's talk about Edward.

1662
01:40:46,439 --> 01:40:46,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1663
01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:50,360
Speaker 13: So in the document they talked about how Kalashnikov, this

1664
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:54,479
Speaker 13: other RT person, as well as Tenants founders worked together

1665
01:40:54,640 --> 01:40:57,920
Speaker 13: to deceive commentators one and two, who we believe are

1666
01:40:57,960 --> 01:41:01,639
Speaker 13: our Timpool and Dave Rubin. The point was to let

1667
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:04,880
Speaker 13: leverage their existing audiences and license their videos they were

1668
01:41:04,920 --> 01:41:08,839
Speaker 13: already making. So together the RT people and the Tenant

1669
01:41:08,920 --> 01:41:14,120
Speaker 13: founders tried to trick Pool and who we believe is

1670
01:41:14,200 --> 01:41:18,320
Speaker 13: Ruben into thinking that the person providing these one hundred

1671
01:41:18,360 --> 01:41:21,880
Speaker 13: thousand dollars per episodes was a European businessman and private

1672
01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:26,919
Speaker 13: investor named Edward Gregorian, which is a wonderful a wonderful

1673
01:41:26,920 --> 01:41:29,960
Speaker 13: fake name. And this was not real person. This was

1674
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:32,559
Speaker 13: a completely faked person. At some point, I believe Dave

1675
01:41:32,600 --> 01:41:36,879
Speaker 13: Ruben or Commentator number one requested that the founder provide

1676
01:41:37,160 --> 01:41:39,280
Speaker 13: like a profile or an article.

1677
01:41:39,640 --> 01:41:39,800
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1678
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:41,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was commentator too that wanted to know more

1679
01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:43,840
Speaker 2: about the quote. Would like to know more about the

1680
01:41:43,840 --> 01:41:45,439
Speaker 2: company and who he will be working with.

1681
01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:48,759
Speaker 13: Yeah, so they asked for like this, like one page

1682
01:41:48,760 --> 01:41:53,000
Speaker 13: profile on like who this guy was, And this was

1683
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:56,760
Speaker 13: provided and he was described as an accomplished finance professional

1684
01:41:57,200 --> 01:42:01,240
Speaker 13: who had various positions in Brussels and France multi National Bank,

1685
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:05,120
Speaker 13: including the director of private Banking division and wealth management.

1686
01:42:05,640 --> 01:42:09,200
Speaker 2: The one page on this guy who is supposedly their investor,

1687
01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:11,439
Speaker 2: shows an obvious stock photo of a man on a

1688
01:42:11,479 --> 01:42:14,559
Speaker 2: private jet with his face blurred out face blood. Yeah

1689
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:19,160
Speaker 2: that's what's that? Looks real? Yeah, not sketchy at all.

1690
01:42:19,439 --> 01:42:23,040
Speaker 2: This is this is an actual guy quote. Founder one

1691
01:42:23,080 --> 01:42:27,120
Speaker 2: transmitted the Edward Gregorian profile to Commentator one, who is

1692
01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:28,160
Speaker 2: either Pool or Ruben.

1693
01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:29,160
Speaker 3: We believe it's Reuben.

1694
01:42:29,240 --> 01:42:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that one's Ruben because Tim wouldn't have

1695
01:42:31,320 --> 01:42:35,120
Speaker 2: asked for more details, Honor. About May twelfth, twenty twenty three,

1696
01:42:35,600 --> 01:42:38,479
Speaker 2: Founder one reported to Persona one that Commentator one had

1697
01:42:38,479 --> 01:42:40,920
Speaker 2: a problem with the profile we sent over, specifically the

1698
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:43,800
Speaker 2: reference to social justice. I think it may be because

1699
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:45,920
Speaker 2: that's usually a term used by liberals, but we're trying

1700
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:49,760
Speaker 2: to create a conservative network. Founder one suggested that Commentator

1701
01:42:49,800 --> 01:42:52,960
Speaker 2: one and Edward could simply speak together to clarify the profile.

1702
01:42:53,400 --> 01:42:57,320
Speaker 13: Yes, and I know there was a secure call between

1703
01:42:57,640 --> 01:43:01,800
Speaker 13: a Russian ation pretending to be miss Gregorian to Tempoole,

1704
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:06,680
Speaker 13: and allegedly this this other call with Commentator one, who

1705
01:43:06,760 --> 01:43:10,639
Speaker 13: we think is Ruben. So there was like conversations between

1706
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:14,280
Speaker 13: like Rubin and Pool with people like further involved in

1707
01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:17,759
Speaker 13: the actual like espionage parts of this and the actual

1708
01:43:17,840 --> 01:43:20,960
Speaker 13: like you're talking to people affiliated was like Russian spies

1709
01:43:21,960 --> 01:43:23,400
Speaker 13: in order to like sell this lie.

1710
01:43:23,640 --> 01:43:25,639
Speaker 10: I did find it very funny. Where did you read

1711
01:43:25,680 --> 01:43:27,720
Speaker 10: the section where they sort of did a forensic analysis

1712
01:43:27,760 --> 01:43:29,880
Speaker 10: of the three persona's email accounts.

1713
01:43:30,560 --> 01:43:32,320
Speaker 3: No, I'm not fun up in doing it yet.

1714
01:43:32,400 --> 01:43:35,320
Speaker 10: So they had three different personas, so all access from

1715
01:43:35,360 --> 01:43:38,439
Speaker 10: the same IP address and had different were presenting a

1716
01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:42,240
Speaker 10: three different individuals, right with three different email accounts. Obviously,

1717
01:43:42,240 --> 01:43:44,160
Speaker 10: the DOJ has been able to get access to those

1718
01:43:44,200 --> 01:43:47,880
Speaker 10: email accounts, and they found that the people using those

1719
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:50,920
Speaker 10: email accounts made mistakes in signing them. So one was

1720
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:54,360
Speaker 10: supposed to come from PERSONA three, but they mistakenly signed

1721
01:43:54,360 --> 01:43:59,439
Speaker 10: it Edward Gregorian. And another time PERSONA one sent a

1722
01:43:59,479 --> 01:44:01,680
Speaker 10: draft of email to person to two, which percent to

1723
01:44:01,720 --> 01:44:03,640
Speaker 10: two then coll beet and pasted into an email like

1724
01:44:03,680 --> 01:44:07,400
Speaker 10: the object was extremely poor. Yeah, it would seem, and

1725
01:44:07,439 --> 01:44:10,040
Speaker 10: it didn't set anyone off to kind.

1726
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:12,280
Speaker 2: Of make that point in terms of like what's happening

1727
01:44:12,280 --> 01:44:14,040
Speaker 2: to these guys right now. What they've been indicted for

1728
01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:18,479
Speaker 2: is violations of the Foreign Agent Registration Act. Like, if

1729
01:44:18,479 --> 01:44:20,559
Speaker 2: you are acting as the agent of a foreign government,

1730
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:22,920
Speaker 2: you have to register in the United States. You have

1731
01:44:22,960 --> 01:44:26,120
Speaker 2: a freedom of speech, but you don't have freedom to

1732
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:31,240
Speaker 2: create propaganda for another government and pretend that you're not right. Yeah,

1733
01:44:31,280 --> 01:44:33,120
Speaker 2: and so you know, obviously one of the things the

1734
01:44:33,120 --> 01:44:35,559
Speaker 2: Feds needed to indict them is evidence that they knew,

1735
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:38,800
Speaker 2: specifically they were being employed by the Russian government, Right

1736
01:44:38,840 --> 01:44:41,280
Speaker 2: that like the Russians hadn't somehow snuck money to the

1737
01:44:41,280 --> 01:44:45,519
Speaker 2: people who founded Tenant Media, Right. And so at one

1738
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:49,000
Speaker 2: point Founder two gets on the Investor Discord channel to

1739
01:44:49,120 --> 01:44:53,080
Speaker 2: submit one of the influencers, I think it's Ruben's invoices

1740
01:44:53,120 --> 01:44:56,520
Speaker 2: to PERSONA one and press for payment of those invoices

1741
01:44:57,160 --> 01:44:59,720
Speaker 2: on September eleventh, twenty twenty three, never forget at a

1742
01:44:59,720 --> 01:45:02,640
Speaker 2: post roximately eight oh seven pm Central time, Founder two

1743
01:45:02,720 --> 01:45:05,320
Speaker 2: wrote in that Discord channel. Today marks two weeks since

1744
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:07,720
Speaker 2: I submitted the invoice for August. Any idea for the

1745
01:45:07,760 --> 01:45:10,479
Speaker 2: delay We are signing the large contracts. We need to

1746
01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:12,160
Speaker 2: be certain we will get the funding to pay these

1747
01:45:12,200 --> 01:45:14,960
Speaker 2: people while waiting for a response, they searched for the

1748
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:24,719
Speaker 2: current time in Moscow. So yes, unbelievable OPSEC like giving

1749
01:45:24,720 --> 01:45:26,799
Speaker 2: the government absolute knowledge of intent.

1750
01:45:27,479 --> 01:45:31,160
Speaker 13: I mean similarly earlier on in the document quote in

1751
01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:33,760
Speaker 13: their private respondence. While working directly for RT pursue want

1752
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:36,240
Speaker 13: to founder one's written contract, Founder one and Founder two

1753
01:45:36,280 --> 01:45:39,839
Speaker 13: regularly referred to their sponsor as the Russians, and for example,

1754
01:45:40,120 --> 01:45:43,799
Speaker 13: Honor about May twelfth, twenty twenty one, Founder two message

1755
01:45:43,800 --> 01:45:46,919
Speaker 13: Founder one on Discord, quote, so we're billing the Russians

1756
01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:51,000
Speaker 13: from the corporation, right, Honor about May twenty second, Founder

1757
01:45:51,040 --> 01:45:54,280
Speaker 13: one message Founder two on Discord. Also the Russians paid,

1758
01:45:54,479 --> 01:45:56,679
Speaker 13: so we're good to build them for the second month.

1759
01:45:56,720 --> 01:46:01,559
Speaker 13: I guess nailed it, Honor about Founder one, message Founder

1760
01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:04,919
Speaker 13: two on Discord. Also, I say we build the Russians

1761
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:08,920
Speaker 13: for the last month. Once we're done the extrafens.

1762
01:46:08,479 --> 01:46:10,120
Speaker 2: I wonder if they knew they were working for the

1763
01:46:10,160 --> 01:46:10,960
Speaker 2: Russian government.

1764
01:46:11,560 --> 01:46:13,360
Speaker 3: There's a lot more that's just like this.

1765
01:46:14,000 --> 01:46:16,600
Speaker 13: They constantly referred to the source of their income, at

1766
01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:19,560
Speaker 13: least to each other as quote unquote the Russians, and

1767
01:46:19,840 --> 01:46:22,800
Speaker 13: then in like outreach to like talent, which is, you know,

1768
01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:26,000
Speaker 13: a generous word to refer to Timpoole and others, they

1769
01:46:26,000 --> 01:46:28,040
Speaker 13: were a little bit more vague, but they certainly made

1770
01:46:28,120 --> 01:46:31,440
Speaker 13: kind of coy references to it in their producer discord beautiful.

1771
01:46:32,320 --> 01:46:36,640
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so, I mean the big question here with

1772
01:46:36,760 --> 01:46:39,799
Speaker 2: all of this is, like, did any of these major

1773
01:46:40,120 --> 01:46:43,320
Speaker 2: right wing media figures who have like they got hired

1774
01:46:43,360 --> 01:46:45,320
Speaker 2: in part because they were already doing the job the

1775
01:46:45,360 --> 01:46:48,280
Speaker 2: Russians wanted them doing, you know, building up this kind

1776
01:46:48,360 --> 01:46:51,360
Speaker 2: of hatred that exists on the right over the idea

1777
01:46:51,520 --> 01:46:56,320
Speaker 2: of funding Ukraine and Ukrainian resistance to the Russian war machine.

1778
01:46:56,360 --> 01:46:58,280
Speaker 2: Like all of that kind of stuff is like why

1779
01:46:58,640 --> 01:47:00,760
Speaker 2: these people got brought on anyway. Tim Poole has just

1780
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:03,759
Speaker 2: kind of been one of the most reflexively anti Ukraine

1781
01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:08,120
Speaker 2: voices and conservative media, and Ruben is very effective at

1782
01:47:08,160 --> 01:47:11,240
Speaker 2: getting Americans to hate other Americans, like he's one of

1783
01:47:11,240 --> 01:47:14,160
Speaker 2: the big kind of anti trans culture warriors out there.

1784
01:47:14,560 --> 01:47:17,920
Speaker 2: Did O Hanson Like that's why they wanted these guys

1785
01:47:18,240 --> 01:47:20,800
Speaker 2: like they wanted to encourage them basically to keep it up.

1786
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:23,360
Speaker 2: And you know, the question then is what did these

1787
01:47:23,400 --> 01:47:25,880
Speaker 2: guys know and when did they know it? And the

1788
01:47:25,920 --> 01:47:29,040
Speaker 2: bigger question because I have my suspicions, and my suspicions

1789
01:47:29,080 --> 01:47:34,400
Speaker 2: are a lot and immediately, but none of that is

1790
01:47:34,400 --> 01:47:38,600
Speaker 2: in this indictment obviously. And the big question then is

1791
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:41,479
Speaker 2: is the federal government going to attempt to prove anything

1792
01:47:41,640 --> 01:47:44,040
Speaker 2: like do they want to actually go after these guys?

1793
01:47:44,200 --> 01:47:47,200
Speaker 2: And I don't know. My guess is not because there

1794
01:47:47,320 --> 01:47:50,160
Speaker 2: very rarely are consequences for these people. But I'm curious

1795
01:47:50,160 --> 01:47:51,040
Speaker 2: as to what y'all think.

1796
01:47:51,560 --> 01:47:53,080
Speaker 3: No, it seems not.

1797
01:47:53,240 --> 01:47:55,800
Speaker 13: I'm both both Pool and I think three others have

1798
01:47:55,880 --> 01:47:57,840
Speaker 13: made statements saying that they've been contacted by the FBI

1799
01:47:57,880 --> 01:48:01,000
Speaker 13: as a potential victim of a crime vibe and that

1800
01:48:01,040 --> 01:48:04,200
Speaker 13: they will be happy to assist the FBI investigating this matter.

1801
01:48:04,840 --> 01:48:09,040
Speaker 2: Now, that doesn't mean the FBI isn't necessarily looking into them,

1802
01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:11,720
Speaker 2: because that is all which the FBI would use if

1803
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:14,200
Speaker 2: they suspected them. But yeah, my guess is that they

1804
01:48:14,320 --> 01:48:14,920
Speaker 2: lawyered up.

1805
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:18,920
Speaker 13: Absolutely. It was funny both in there. In Betty Johnson's

1806
01:48:18,920 --> 01:48:22,839
Speaker 13: and Timpole's immediate statements, they call this elk DOJ indictment,

1807
01:48:23,479 --> 01:48:25,360
Speaker 13: which is not true. It was not leaked, it was

1808
01:48:25,400 --> 01:48:26,200
Speaker 13: just unsealed.

1809
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:28,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just arrested people.

1810
01:48:28,160 --> 01:48:29,880
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm very sure there's a press release.

1811
01:48:30,479 --> 01:48:34,000
Speaker 13: Like Also, one of the final posts from Tenant Media,

1812
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:36,800
Speaker 13: I was talking about how this woman named Lauren's son

1813
01:48:36,880 --> 01:48:38,839
Speaker 13: was charged with acting as an agent of the Chinese

1814
01:48:38,880 --> 01:48:42,240
Speaker 13: Communist Party. Quote he or she is talking about DEI?

1815
01:48:42,439 --> 01:48:44,679
Speaker 13: Why would the Chinese government want to push a DEI

1816
01:48:44,720 --> 01:48:45,400
Speaker 13: in America?

1817
01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:46,840
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, remember this?

1818
01:48:47,760 --> 01:48:50,080
Speaker 13: This is This is I think one of one of

1819
01:48:50,120 --> 01:48:53,400
Speaker 13: their final Twitter posts before their I can't got taken down.

1820
01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:54,240
Speaker 2: Yeah beautiful.

1821
01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:56,400
Speaker 10: Their Rumba account is still live and kicking.

1822
01:48:56,640 --> 01:48:58,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh thank goodness that out.

1823
01:48:58,680 --> 01:49:01,800
Speaker 10: Also, could we talk about their graphic design just for

1824
01:49:01,800 --> 01:49:05,559
Speaker 10: a moment, because it is dog shit? Yeah, Tenant mediums

1825
01:49:06,000 --> 01:49:08,080
Speaker 10: Tenant Yeah, like, have you I don't know, have you

1826
01:49:08,400 --> 01:49:10,000
Speaker 10: have you been on their rumble account? Garrison?

1827
01:49:10,160 --> 01:49:12,280
Speaker 13: You know, I can't I can't say I have been

1828
01:49:12,520 --> 01:49:15,040
Speaker 13: on their Rumble account as of as of recent.

1829
01:49:14,960 --> 01:49:17,280
Speaker 2: The last time I looked at Rumble it was their

1830
01:49:17,320 --> 01:49:19,960
Speaker 2: booth at the rnc OW.

1831
01:49:20,200 --> 01:49:23,840
Speaker 10: Let me tell you they're back, and genuinely some of

1832
01:49:23,840 --> 01:49:28,080
Speaker 10: the most like deranged. It's just it's extremely busy, it's

1833
01:49:28,200 --> 01:49:31,000
Speaker 10: very nineties like. It's a lot of bright colors.

1834
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:31,559
Speaker 3: I mean.

1835
01:49:31,720 --> 01:49:35,000
Speaker 13: The clearest indication to me that this was absolutely a

1836
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:38,719
Speaker 13: Russian op is that the company described itself as quote

1837
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:42,840
Speaker 13: a network of heterodox commentators that focus on Western political

1838
01:49:42,880 --> 01:49:44,160
Speaker 13: and cultural issues.

1839
01:49:44,200 --> 01:49:46,720
Speaker 2: Definitely Russians. Definitely Russians.

1840
01:49:47,040 --> 01:49:49,960
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, I wonder who wrote that? Who would

1841
01:49:49,960 --> 01:49:51,120
Speaker 3: ever described themselves?

1842
01:49:51,120 --> 01:49:53,720
Speaker 2: Tim Poole had never even seen the word head of

1843
01:49:53,760 --> 01:49:54,719
Speaker 2: redox before.

1844
01:49:54,920 --> 01:49:57,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy, It's it's wild.

1845
01:49:58,000 --> 01:50:00,439
Speaker 10: Yeah, they put multipolar into a theosauric and that's what

1846
01:50:00,479 --> 01:50:01,080
Speaker 10: they came up with.

1847
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:01,960
Speaker 3: It's crazy.

1848
01:50:02,439 --> 01:50:04,519
Speaker 2: It is interesting. One of the things in this indictment

1849
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:06,880
Speaker 2: that I did find kind of worth talking about is

1850
01:50:06,920 --> 01:50:11,160
Speaker 2: that it specifically notes that folks at Russia today when

1851
01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:13,919
Speaker 2: they were because they were largely deplatformed after the expanded

1852
01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:17,439
Speaker 2: Russian invasion in twenty twenty two early twenty twenty two

1853
01:50:17,920 --> 01:50:20,679
Speaker 2: and the indictment quotes the editor in chief of Russia

1854
01:50:20,720 --> 01:50:22,880
Speaker 2: Today being like, but it's fine because we were able

1855
01:50:22,880 --> 01:50:25,720
Speaker 2: to rebuild our following on Twitter. So I don't know

1856
01:50:25,720 --> 01:50:27,800
Speaker 2: if you, just in case you had any questions about

1857
01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:32,080
Speaker 2: like what Elon Musk's reforms at Twitter have accomplished, one

1858
01:50:32,080 --> 01:50:34,479
Speaker 2: of them is that we should probably roll to ads again.

1859
01:50:34,520 --> 01:50:37,400
Speaker 2: And then, Garrison, you had a very fun document you

1860
01:50:37,439 --> 01:50:38,240
Speaker 2: wanted to take us.

1861
01:50:38,120 --> 01:50:40,439
Speaker 13: Through, yes to kind of talk about why they might

1862
01:50:40,479 --> 01:50:42,479
Speaker 13: be doing some of this. There was one other document

1863
01:50:42,520 --> 01:50:45,320
Speaker 13: that was unsealed that kind of sheds a light on

1864
01:50:45,600 --> 01:50:49,480
Speaker 13: Russia's exact focus on influencing US politics.

1865
01:50:49,720 --> 01:50:53,560
Speaker 2: Well, that's great, speaking of influencing US politics. Our advertisers

1866
01:50:53,800 --> 01:51:06,599
Speaker 2: probably don't. And we're back.

1867
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:12,400
Speaker 13: There's another document called Exhibit nine to A, which is

1868
01:51:12,800 --> 01:51:18,400
Speaker 13: originally in Russian and this translated Coffee is provided in

1869
01:51:18,439 --> 01:51:21,200
Speaker 13: this PDF. And this appears to be some kind of

1870
01:51:21,400 --> 01:51:26,640
Speaker 13: instructional manual for why exactly people are going about this,

1871
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:30,360
Speaker 13: why exactly is Tim Poole and all these others getting

1872
01:51:30,400 --> 01:51:32,720
Speaker 13: paid to talk about what they talk about. And then

1873
01:51:32,760 --> 01:51:36,280
Speaker 13: it also kind of explains like tactics and like how

1874
01:51:36,280 --> 01:51:38,840
Speaker 13: to actually go about it. So the first bit of

1875
01:51:38,920 --> 01:51:41,479
Speaker 13: this of this document, they just are talking about like

1876
01:51:41,560 --> 01:51:45,680
Speaker 13: the US two party system, which is really funny, and

1877
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:48,719
Speaker 13: they primarily explain the two party system's differences as being

1878
01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:51,559
Speaker 13: like the way that they affect race, that the US

1879
01:51:51,600 --> 01:51:55,719
Speaker 13: Political Party B or Democratic Party includes people of color

1880
01:51:55,720 --> 01:51:59,080
Speaker 13: and quote unquote supporters of affirmative action and reverse discrimination,

1881
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:01,799
Speaker 13: i e. Infringement on the rights of the white population

1882
01:52:01,840 --> 01:52:05,479
Speaker 13: of the United States. And then meanwhile, the Republican Party

1883
01:52:05,600 --> 01:52:09,240
Speaker 13: are victims of discrimination by people of color unquote. So

1884
01:52:09,880 --> 01:52:11,960
Speaker 13: that's how they kind of frame the US two party

1885
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:14,880
Speaker 13: system is that there's these poor white people being oppressed

1886
01:52:14,920 --> 01:52:18,040
Speaker 13: by wokeism. They end this little introduction on the two

1887
01:52:18,040 --> 01:52:20,920
Speaker 13: party system by saying, quote, a key characteristic of the

1888
01:52:20,920 --> 01:52:25,240
Speaker 13: American media is it skew towards the Democratic Party's influence.

1889
01:52:25,640 --> 01:52:28,640
Speaker 13: While society is split between supporters of the new globalist

1890
01:52:28,640 --> 01:52:32,640
Speaker 13: socialism and traditional values, the media is democrat by over

1891
01:52:32,760 --> 01:52:35,759
Speaker 13: seventy five percent. Situation for the Republicans is made complicated

1892
01:52:35,760 --> 01:52:39,880
Speaker 13: by the censorship on social media and Democrats oriented new media.

1893
01:52:40,439 --> 01:52:42,400
Speaker 13: So some kind of weird phrasing there because it is

1894
01:52:42,439 --> 01:52:46,560
Speaker 13: being translated from Russian. But they're talking about how liberalism

1895
01:52:46,680 --> 01:52:50,759
Speaker 13: is inherently biased in media, and that's something that's promoted

1896
01:52:50,840 --> 01:52:54,639
Speaker 13: while being racist and being a Republican is something that

1897
01:52:55,080 --> 01:52:57,280
Speaker 13: is harder to get paid for by big media.

1898
01:52:57,000 --> 01:52:57,599
Speaker 7: To talk about.

1899
01:52:58,040 --> 01:53:01,280
Speaker 13: And that's why they have this campaign, which they title

1900
01:53:01,600 --> 01:53:05,760
Speaker 13: gorilla media campaign in the United States. They justify this

1901
01:53:05,840 --> 01:53:09,680
Speaker 13: by saying that there is no pro Russian and or

1902
01:53:09,800 --> 01:53:15,719
Speaker 13: putin mainstream politicians or succinctly large numbers of influencers and voters,

1903
01:53:16,080 --> 01:53:18,160
Speaker 13: and this is one of the things they're trying to do.

1904
01:53:18,600 --> 01:53:22,160
Speaker 13: Another quote is that Americans are quote dissatisfied by the

1905
01:53:22,200 --> 01:53:25,679
Speaker 13: dramatic decline and center of living and large expenditures of

1906
01:53:25,680 --> 01:53:29,360
Speaker 13: offensive policy in the United States, in Europe and Ukraine.

1907
01:53:29,439 --> 01:53:31,639
Speaker 13: They are afraid of losing the American way of life

1908
01:53:31,640 --> 01:53:34,160
Speaker 13: in the American dream. It is these sentiments that should

1909
01:53:34,160 --> 01:53:37,519
Speaker 13: be exploited in the course of an information campaign in

1910
01:53:37,560 --> 01:53:41,479
Speaker 13: the United States. Smart The campaign topics used in their

1911
01:53:41,479 --> 01:53:46,240
Speaker 13: Gorilla Media campaign are included here. First ones encroaching universal poverty.

1912
01:53:46,560 --> 01:53:49,800
Speaker 13: Number two is the risk of job loss for white Americans,

1913
01:53:49,920 --> 01:53:55,000
Speaker 13: privileges for people of color, perverts and disabled, constant lies

1914
01:53:55,080 --> 01:53:58,519
Speaker 13: of the Democratic Party administration. They threat of crime coming

1915
01:53:58,520 --> 01:54:02,439
Speaker 13: from people of color, and immigrants, including new immigrants from Ukraine.

1916
01:54:02,840 --> 01:54:06,320
Speaker 13: Overspending on foreign policy at the expense of interests of

1917
01:54:06,360 --> 01:54:10,000
Speaker 13: white US citizens, constant lies to the voters by the

1918
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:14,400
Speaker 13: Democrats in power. Last, but not least, America is suffering

1919
01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:18,479
Speaker 13: a defeat despite Liberals' efforts. We are being drawn into

1920
01:54:18,520 --> 01:54:22,120
Speaker 13: the water. Our guys will die in Ukraine. The target

1921
01:54:22,160 --> 01:54:25,920
Speaker 13: audience of their campaign is listed as Republican voters, Donald

1922
01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:31,080
Speaker 13: Trump supporters, supporters of quote traditional family values, white Americans

1923
01:54:31,160 --> 01:54:33,480
Speaker 13: representing the lower and middle class.

1924
01:54:33,960 --> 01:54:37,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things. It's frustrating

1925
01:54:37,480 --> 01:54:40,800
Speaker 2: that it is working. Yeah, to be quite frank, it's

1926
01:54:40,840 --> 01:54:47,880
Speaker 2: exactly what the Russiagate conspiracy theorists have been saying for years. Unfortunately, Yeah, unfortunately,

1927
01:54:48,000 --> 01:54:49,880
Speaker 2: and like a shitload of people on the left have

1928
01:54:49,960 --> 01:54:52,520
Speaker 2: just been mocking them endlessly, in part because they've bought

1929
01:54:52,560 --> 01:54:53,720
Speaker 2: a lot of this propaganda.

1930
01:54:54,080 --> 01:54:55,680
Speaker 13: And this is certainly different from the way they were

1931
01:54:55,680 --> 01:54:58,120
Speaker 13: going about it in twenty sixteen, right, And this isn't

1932
01:54:58,360 --> 01:55:01,760
Speaker 13: absolutely Yeah, this is the same like Facebook stuff they're doing,

1933
01:55:01,880 --> 01:55:04,600
Speaker 13: although Tenant did did have Facebook accounts. These are like

1934
01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:07,320
Speaker 13: weaponizing these people that have gotten big on YouTube and

1935
01:55:07,360 --> 01:55:10,080
Speaker 13: other platforms for talking, but the same type of things

1936
01:55:10,080 --> 01:55:12,160
Speaker 13: that Russia kind of wants them to talk about, and

1937
01:55:12,200 --> 01:55:14,000
Speaker 13: it's just making sure that they have the ability to

1938
01:55:14,040 --> 01:55:17,720
Speaker 13: do so. Kind of Lastly, in this information doc they

1939
01:55:17,760 --> 01:55:20,400
Speaker 13: talk about kind of like where you can spread this disinformation.

1940
01:55:20,840 --> 01:55:23,560
Speaker 13: It says here quote on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. We

1941
01:55:23,640 --> 01:55:26,960
Speaker 13: need to create multiple perishable accounts, primarily for the work

1942
01:55:27,040 --> 01:55:30,240
Speaker 13: with comments. Websites should serve as the sources of information

1943
01:55:30,360 --> 01:55:33,840
Speaker 13: for dissemination and for video content YouTube accounts with a

1944
01:55:33,840 --> 01:55:37,800
Speaker 13: relatively small number of subscribers and commentators unquote. The list

1945
01:55:37,920 --> 01:55:41,720
Speaker 13: of information products can be disseminated includes texts of posts,

1946
01:55:41,800 --> 01:55:46,320
Speaker 13: comments on social media, memes including charactures and collages, and

1947
01:55:46,600 --> 01:55:50,040
Speaker 13: video content including news stories in the Fox News style.

1948
01:55:50,880 --> 01:55:54,960
Speaker 13: They then propose creating a quote unquote project office to

1949
01:55:55,280 --> 01:55:59,600
Speaker 13: run us this style of like media campaign. This consists

1950
01:55:59,600 --> 01:56:03,480
Speaker 13: of three segments monitoring US media and social media accounts

1951
01:56:03,840 --> 01:56:07,720
Speaker 13: of Republican politicians. A text factor with a minimum of

1952
01:56:07,960 --> 01:56:12,680
Speaker 13: five to four main topic based recommendations, including about ten

1953
01:56:12,760 --> 01:56:16,560
Speaker 13: basic posts on social media and forty to sixty comments,

1954
01:56:16,920 --> 01:56:19,720
Speaker 13: and then managing an editorial office with a daily output

1955
01:56:19,760 --> 01:56:22,720
Speaker 13: of three to four pictures and memes and a video

1956
01:56:22,800 --> 01:56:25,840
Speaker 13: editorial office with a daily output of three to four

1957
01:56:25,920 --> 01:56:27,200
Speaker 13: videos per day.

1958
01:56:27,800 --> 01:56:28,200
Speaker 2: Quote.

1959
01:56:28,240 --> 01:56:29,920
Speaker 13: In order for this work to be effective, you need

1960
01:56:29,960 --> 01:56:33,400
Speaker 13: to use a minimum of fake news and a maximum

1961
01:56:33,440 --> 01:56:35,000
Speaker 13: of realistic information.

1962
01:56:35,360 --> 01:56:36,000
Speaker 3: At the same time.

1963
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:39,200
Speaker 13: You should continuously repeat that this is what's really happening,

1964
01:56:39,240 --> 01:56:41,360
Speaker 13: but the official media will never tell you about it

1965
01:56:41,480 --> 01:56:42,919
Speaker 13: or show it to you unquote.

1966
01:56:43,960 --> 01:56:47,400
Speaker 2: So I mean, like, part of what's frustrating about this

1967
01:56:47,480 --> 01:56:50,640
Speaker 2: number one is just like they clearly have watched Alex Jones,

1968
01:56:50,760 --> 01:56:53,560
Speaker 2: and like, I've learned a great deal from how he's

1969
01:56:53,640 --> 01:56:56,720
Speaker 2: done this, which, unfortunately something Alex used to claim about

1970
01:56:56,760 --> 01:57:00,320
Speaker 2: putin that fuck maybe he was right. But the bigger,

1971
01:57:00,400 --> 01:57:02,440
Speaker 2: more frustrating point to me is that like, oh, they

1972
01:57:02,440 --> 01:57:04,360
Speaker 2: didn't need to do any of this at all, Like

1973
01:57:04,440 --> 01:57:08,960
Speaker 2: this was all working just fine without them directly getting

1974
01:57:08,960 --> 01:57:11,480
Speaker 2: involved this way, I kind of am intro. I think

1975
01:57:11,480 --> 01:57:13,520
Speaker 2: it's probably just a reaction to the fact that they

1976
01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:16,760
Speaker 2: had a lot of their more traditional stuff get deplatformed

1977
01:57:16,840 --> 01:57:20,160
Speaker 2: after February twenty twenty two. Yeah, but like this was

1978
01:57:20,200 --> 01:57:23,240
Speaker 2: all stuff the Right was doing organically in their media

1979
01:57:23,280 --> 01:57:25,240
Speaker 2: without Russian money. They didn't need this.

1980
01:57:26,040 --> 01:57:27,680
Speaker 13: They certainly are trying to kind of rebuild some of

1981
01:57:27,720 --> 01:57:32,360
Speaker 13: their like directability to influence after like RT got deplatformed.

1982
01:57:32,680 --> 01:57:34,360
Speaker 13: The other part that's interesting to me is because like

1983
01:57:34,400 --> 01:57:36,840
Speaker 13: this indictment focuses on like Tenet Media as being kind

1984
01:57:36,880 --> 01:57:39,880
Speaker 13: of one of these video editorial offices with a daily

1985
01:57:39,920 --> 01:57:42,080
Speaker 13: output of three to four videos a day.

1986
01:57:42,160 --> 01:57:42,440
Speaker 3: Like that.

1987
01:57:42,440 --> 01:57:44,600
Speaker 13: That's what this That's what this kind of guide it describes,

1988
01:57:44,720 --> 01:57:47,240
Speaker 13: that's what Tenant is. This evidence Stock also talks about

1989
01:57:47,240 --> 01:57:50,360
Speaker 13: how like they're also just like faking engagement, getting like

1990
01:57:50,440 --> 01:57:54,560
Speaker 13: sixty comments per day on various social media posts on

1991
01:57:54,600 --> 01:57:57,640
Speaker 13: political topics. So that also like points towards like a

1992
01:57:57,640 --> 01:58:00,600
Speaker 13: lot of people like driving like discussions and trying to

1993
01:58:00,640 --> 01:58:05,040
Speaker 13: like increase the actual visibility and engagement is being boosted

1994
01:58:05,080 --> 01:58:09,560
Speaker 13: by this like non authentic interference. A lot of videos

1995
01:58:09,680 --> 01:58:11,720
Speaker 13: will go viral not just because they had a lot

1996
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:13,880
Speaker 13: of people watch them initially. It's because they have a

1997
01:58:13,920 --> 01:58:16,520
Speaker 13: lot of engagement in like the comments, and that's what's

1998
01:58:16,520 --> 01:58:18,520
Speaker 13: going to push something to actually show up more people's feets.

1999
01:58:18,560 --> 01:58:20,800
Speaker 13: Like that is how Twitter currently works. There's a degree

2000
01:58:20,800 --> 01:58:23,520
Speaker 13: to which that's how things work on YouTube. So it's

2001
01:58:23,520 --> 01:58:27,040
Speaker 13: also just trying to try to like engineer virality by

2002
01:58:27,400 --> 01:58:31,120
Speaker 13: faking a certain amount of engagement. Yeah, there's also like

2003
01:58:31,200 --> 01:58:34,760
Speaker 13: that that degree of like interference beyond just actually, you know,

2004
01:58:34,800 --> 01:58:37,880
Speaker 13: paying for Tim Poole to talk about Ukraine and talk

2005
01:58:37,920 --> 01:58:40,080
Speaker 13: about how gay people are evil once a week.

2006
01:58:40,440 --> 01:58:41,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.

2007
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:43,720
Speaker 2: I think that's probably all we've got to say about

2008
01:58:43,720 --> 01:58:47,600
Speaker 2: this for right now. This is not the most surprising

2009
01:58:47,680 --> 01:58:50,000
Speaker 2: news in the world. It is good that it's embarrassing

2010
01:58:50,120 --> 01:58:51,640
Speaker 2: to some of these guys. I don't know that. I

2011
01:58:51,640 --> 01:58:53,760
Speaker 2: think it's actually going to hurt their listenership at all.

2012
01:58:53,880 --> 01:58:55,680
Speaker 2: The people who listen to them don't really care.

2013
01:58:56,160 --> 01:58:57,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, they'll lie out of it.

2014
01:58:58,280 --> 01:59:00,680
Speaker 13: Yeah, they'll find some way to and to make themselves

2015
01:59:00,720 --> 01:59:02,840
Speaker 13: the victim out of it. They will not have any

2016
01:59:02,880 --> 01:59:07,280
Speaker 13: reflection that there was a whole Russian operation to identify

2017
01:59:07,400 --> 01:59:10,920
Speaker 13: like influencers, to scout for that would serve Russia's purposes.

2018
01:59:10,920 --> 01:59:13,800
Speaker 13: That they will never reflect on why they specifically were

2019
01:59:13,840 --> 01:59:17,840
Speaker 13: scouted for. No, Yeah, they will never reflect that. The

2020
01:59:17,880 --> 01:59:21,360
Speaker 13: only bit of like, the only bit of hesitation that

2021
01:59:21,400 --> 01:59:24,000
Speaker 13: they had to take this money was that the profile

2022
01:59:24,040 --> 01:59:26,480
Speaker 13: for the think businessman mentioned to Social Justice that was

2023
01:59:26,520 --> 01:59:29,000
Speaker 13: the only thing that they like protested that's the only

2024
01:59:29,040 --> 01:59:31,360
Speaker 13: thing that they actually wanted to look further into was

2025
01:59:31,400 --> 01:59:33,440
Speaker 13: the fact that he listed social justice is something he

2026
01:59:33,480 --> 01:59:36,760
Speaker 13: cares about, and not the fact that he just doesn't

2027
01:59:36,760 --> 01:59:37,320
Speaker 13: exist at all.

2028
01:59:37,440 --> 01:59:38,760
Speaker 3: This is a completely fake person.

2029
01:59:39,040 --> 01:59:41,320
Speaker 13: They were able to flag social justice but not flag

2030
01:59:41,480 --> 01:59:43,520
Speaker 13: that he just did not existed. None of this will

2031
01:59:43,560 --> 01:59:46,320
Speaker 13: cause any kind of recollection because these guys don't care.

2032
01:59:46,400 --> 01:59:48,120
Speaker 13: Like the reason why they say what they say is

2033
01:59:48,160 --> 01:59:51,080
Speaker 13: because they can make five hundred thousand dollars a month

2034
01:59:51,240 --> 01:59:53,880
Speaker 13: extra saying it, So imagine how much money they're already making.

2035
01:59:54,360 --> 01:59:57,480
Speaker 13: Like that explains why they're doing what they're doing. Like

2036
01:59:57,600 --> 02:00:00,000
Speaker 13: they don't care what they say anymore. They make such

2037
02:00:00,040 --> 02:00:02,440
Speaker 13: a ridiculous amount of money that it doesn't matter.

2038
02:00:03,240 --> 02:00:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what it's always been about. Like they

2039
02:00:06,040 --> 02:00:07,520
Speaker 2: have never believed in anything.

2040
02:00:07,680 --> 02:00:11,200
Speaker 13: Yeah, they don't need to like reflect on any of

2041
02:00:11,240 --> 02:00:13,320
Speaker 13: this because they're still making tons of money. They're making

2042
02:00:13,320 --> 02:00:15,120
Speaker 13: slightly less than they used to now that Russia's not

2043
02:00:15,120 --> 02:00:17,800
Speaker 13: paying them, but they are still making tons Especially like

2044
02:00:18,000 --> 02:00:20,080
Speaker 13: if this is what they thought like the going price was,

2045
02:00:20,120 --> 02:00:22,720
Speaker 13: like they suggested these amounts, like they this is like

2046
02:00:22,840 --> 02:00:25,360
Speaker 13: the regular price for them, and that kind of points

2047
02:00:25,360 --> 02:00:27,600
Speaker 13: towards how much money is flying around this right wing

2048
02:00:27,640 --> 02:00:28,560
Speaker 13: medio ecosystem.

2049
02:00:28,840 --> 02:00:31,160
Speaker 2: Yep, great, good to stuff.

2050
02:00:31,320 --> 02:00:34,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, the last couple of videos were focusing on this

2051
02:00:34,200 --> 02:00:40,760
Speaker 10: ridiculous lie that migrant's taken over an apartment complex in Colorado,

2052
02:00:40,960 --> 02:00:42,680
Speaker 10: Like all this shit that just isn't true that they've

2053
02:00:42,680 --> 02:00:45,040
Speaker 10: been able to make true. I don't know, it's so frustrating.

2054
02:00:45,280 --> 02:00:49,080
Speaker 10: I find it's so frustrating. Also, how like Pool has

2055
02:00:49,080 --> 02:00:50,840
Speaker 10: been able to run this line of like the media

2056
02:00:50,880 --> 02:00:54,560
Speaker 10: won't tell you this because there are things that legitimately

2057
02:00:54,760 --> 02:00:59,880
Speaker 10: our neoliberal establishment media completely ignores and like that leave

2058
02:01:00,280 --> 02:01:03,680
Speaker 10: the door open for this kind of shit, and as

2059
02:01:03,720 --> 02:01:05,960
Speaker 10: a result, people can fill that space with lies, as

2060
02:01:05,960 --> 02:01:06,640
Speaker 10: we're seeing here.

2061
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:07,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2062
02:01:07,840 --> 02:01:11,480
Speaker 13: Well, so the next time you get contacted by a

2063
02:01:11,520 --> 02:01:15,040
Speaker 13: shady man on WhatsApp to pay you five hundred thousand

2064
02:01:15,080 --> 02:01:17,920
Speaker 13: dollars about talking about how gay people are evil, you

2065
02:01:18,000 --> 02:01:19,840
Speaker 13: might want to check to see if he's actually a

2066
02:01:19,920 --> 02:01:21,880
Speaker 13: Russian agent first. You just you might want to do

2067
02:01:22,080 --> 02:01:24,880
Speaker 13: a little a little bit of work. Yeah, they have

2068
02:01:24,960 --> 02:01:26,560
Speaker 13: to tell you. It's like cops. You just ask him that.

2069
02:01:26,600 --> 02:01:28,000
Speaker 2: They have to tell you, you know what, Just send

2070
02:01:28,040 --> 02:01:31,360
Speaker 2: him my way. That's exciting. New content news for you guys.

2071
02:01:31,560 --> 02:01:33,800
Speaker 13: I would not get paid by Russia to lie. I

2072
02:01:33,880 --> 02:01:36,360
Speaker 13: might get paid by like Sweden, you know, to like

2073
02:01:36,600 --> 02:01:38,080
Speaker 13: advance Swedish interests.

2074
02:01:38,120 --> 02:01:41,760
Speaker 2: Maybe there's a number of most countries I would lie

2075
02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:44,840
Speaker 2: for besides that aren't rush. Yeah, would I would lie

2076
02:01:44,880 --> 02:01:46,760
Speaker 2: for like Japan?

2077
02:01:47,000 --> 02:01:50,960
Speaker 3: Probably No, that could get dark actually never won. Yeah, yeah,

2078
02:01:50,960 --> 02:01:51,920
Speaker 3: I leave that one out. Brother.

2079
02:01:52,120 --> 02:01:54,600
Speaker 2: Sweden, Sweden's perfect, No, it's just scarce. So I just

2080
02:01:54,640 --> 02:01:57,120
Speaker 2: think you're underestimating the kind of shit Sweden gets up to.

2081
02:01:57,320 --> 02:01:59,960
Speaker 3: Oh no, they're certainly evil. They're certainly evil.

2082
02:02:00,520 --> 02:02:02,800
Speaker 13: But in terms of like a very like milk toast

2083
02:02:02,840 --> 02:02:05,560
Speaker 13: country to get paid to increase their foreign interest, then

2084
02:02:05,720 --> 02:02:07,920
Speaker 13: I think Sweden's about as good as you're gonna get. Like,

2085
02:02:07,920 --> 02:02:10,960
Speaker 13: come on, like hungry, come on, come on Switzerland.

2086
02:02:11,040 --> 02:02:14,160
Speaker 2: You know all the Switzerland you would you would quickly

2087
02:02:14,200 --> 02:02:16,800
Speaker 2: get implicated. But they could pay.

2088
02:02:16,360 --> 02:02:18,320
Speaker 3: All the financial all the financial price.

2089
02:02:19,200 --> 02:02:22,960
Speaker 10: Yeah, Robert and I received material benefits from the Burmese PDF.

2090
02:02:23,000 --> 02:02:25,080
Speaker 10: We both had a nice lunch from them, and that

2091
02:02:25,120 --> 02:02:27,280
Speaker 10: has been what we've done all our coverage. It's time

2092
02:02:27,320 --> 02:02:28,320
Speaker 10: for us to come clean now.

2093
02:02:28,440 --> 02:02:31,000
Speaker 2: We did, although you did get very sick afterwards.

2094
02:02:31,240 --> 02:02:34,240
Speaker 10: So deceivably sick and you lucked me out of the toilet.

2095
02:02:34,360 --> 02:02:40,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, that was pretty funny.

2096
02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:46,760
Speaker 13: Oh what a time anyway, Rip Tenant Media, you were

2097
02:02:46,800 --> 02:02:47,640
Speaker 13: a bake one.

2098
02:02:48,040 --> 02:03:15,640
Speaker 2: We'll be back tomorrow. Ah, what's not doing great? My democracy?

2099
02:03:15,720 --> 02:03:18,320
Speaker 2: Although better than a couple of months ago. Maybe if

2100
02:03:18,320 --> 02:03:21,840
Speaker 2: we're comparing this debate to the last debate, I think

2101
02:03:22,360 --> 02:03:26,200
Speaker 2: the short answer everyone we'll agree with is better debate.

2102
02:03:26,840 --> 02:03:27,240
Speaker 3: My god.

2103
02:03:28,080 --> 02:03:31,040
Speaker 2: I'm Robert Evans with me tonight for you know. A

2104
02:03:31,120 --> 02:03:34,600
Speaker 2: quick reaction to everything that went on in case you

2105
02:03:34,600 --> 02:03:37,560
Speaker 2: don't want to sit through it yourself is Garrison Davis

2106
02:03:37,600 --> 02:03:39,480
Speaker 2: and Sophie Lichdermann.

2107
02:03:40,040 --> 02:03:41,840
Speaker 13: Yeah, this was like a real debate. We haven't had

2108
02:03:41,840 --> 02:03:42,920
Speaker 13: one of these in a long time.

2109
02:03:43,280 --> 02:03:45,880
Speaker 2: No, no, maybe never. I can't actually think of a

2110
02:03:45,920 --> 02:03:48,520
Speaker 2: time in my life. It's certainly not in my adult

2111
02:03:48,560 --> 02:03:51,240
Speaker 2: life where we have had one. I don't know, you

2112
02:03:51,280 --> 02:03:53,880
Speaker 2: know what, Maybe I'm not remembering the Romney one well enough,

2113
02:03:53,920 --> 02:03:56,360
Speaker 2: but certainly it's been a long time since we've got

2114
02:03:56,440 --> 02:04:00,520
Speaker 2: This was really was about the issues to a significant extent,

2115
02:04:01,120 --> 02:04:03,120
Speaker 2: not all of the issues I would have picked to

2116
02:04:03,160 --> 02:04:05,720
Speaker 2: talk about, but there was a lot of discussion of

2117
02:04:05,880 --> 02:04:07,680
Speaker 2: issues and policy.

2118
02:04:07,840 --> 02:04:09,920
Speaker 3: And like actual moderating.

2119
02:04:09,600 --> 02:04:11,720
Speaker 2: And actual moderating, yes, live.

2120
02:04:11,520 --> 02:04:14,200
Speaker 13: Fact checks, which I've never seen to this extent at

2121
02:04:14,240 --> 02:04:17,440
Speaker 13: any Yeah, at any presidential debate. Ever, it was almost

2122
02:04:17,440 --> 02:04:19,480
Speaker 13: shocking to see the moderators actually do their job.

2123
02:04:19,680 --> 02:04:21,120
Speaker 2: That was the highlight of the night for me.

2124
02:04:21,320 --> 02:04:23,360
Speaker 15: Yeah, And if you didn't catch the debate, it was

2125
02:04:23,400 --> 02:04:29,040
Speaker 15: hosted by Disney's ABC and the moderators were Lindsay Davis

2126
02:04:29,040 --> 02:04:33,280
Speaker 15: and David Muir, and yeah, both of them each did

2127
02:04:33,320 --> 02:04:37,320
Speaker 15: a very decent job, I believe, with live fact checking.

2128
02:04:37,440 --> 02:04:41,560
Speaker 15: When Trump said some of yes, very out of pocket,

2129
02:04:41,640 --> 02:04:43,760
Speaker 15: unhinged comments.

2130
02:04:43,400 --> 02:04:45,200
Speaker 2: They deferred to him a couple of times when he

2131
02:04:45,200 --> 02:04:47,240
Speaker 2: would demand to be allowed to speak. That I wasn't

2132
02:04:47,240 --> 02:04:49,120
Speaker 2: thrilled with, but yeah, it was kind of it was

2133
02:04:49,120 --> 02:04:52,600
Speaker 2: made up for you know. One of the things going

2134
02:04:52,600 --> 02:04:54,320
Speaker 2: on on the right wing media the last couple of

2135
02:04:54,360 --> 02:04:57,080
Speaker 2: days has been this claim that Haitian immigrants to the

2136
02:04:57,160 --> 02:05:01,040
Speaker 2: United States are eating people's pets. Probably do an episode

2137
02:05:01,080 --> 02:05:03,800
Speaker 2: on this, it's worth covering. Like it's all lies, it's

2138
02:05:03,800 --> 02:05:06,480
Speaker 2: like evil, racist lies. But Trump brought it up in

2139
02:05:06,600 --> 02:05:10,960
Speaker 2: detail during the debate and got pressed pretty effectively by

2140
02:05:11,040 --> 02:05:13,920
Speaker 2: David who essentially what I'm saying like, well, that's just

2141
02:05:14,040 --> 02:05:17,320
Speaker 2: not true. Like we've talked to the city manager. There's

2142
02:05:17,360 --> 02:05:20,400
Speaker 2: no reports of anyone's pet speed. Yeah, you've just made

2143
02:05:20,400 --> 02:05:23,160
Speaker 2: this up. And Trump said it was true because he

2144
02:05:23,240 --> 02:05:24,040
Speaker 2: saw it on TV.

2145
02:05:24,240 --> 02:05:25,600
Speaker 3: He said it twice.

2146
02:05:25,680 --> 02:05:28,000
Speaker 15: But like, you know, I just want to like for

2147
02:05:28,320 --> 02:05:31,400
Speaker 15: like a Reuter's fact check, like this started from a

2148
02:05:31,800 --> 02:05:37,040
Speaker 15: Facebook post and then determined that it was there was

2149
02:05:37,080 --> 02:05:40,840
Speaker 15: no evidence to this claim, and that didn't stop the

2150
02:05:40,960 --> 02:05:45,360
Speaker 15: likes of jd Vance and other horrible individuals spreading it

2151
02:05:45,400 --> 02:05:47,640
Speaker 15: on the internet and Donald Trump announcing it to be

2152
02:05:47,680 --> 02:05:53,240
Speaker 15: true multiple times during the biggest presidential debate of our lifetime.

2153
02:05:53,600 --> 02:05:57,160
Speaker 13: As they kept saying, it seems every debate is the

2154
02:05:57,200 --> 02:05:59,200
Speaker 13: most historic debate that's ever happened.

2155
02:05:59,320 --> 02:06:01,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to say this one wasn't. Sorry, the

2156
02:06:01,800 --> 02:06:04,840
Speaker 2: last one definitely was because one of the guys who

2157
02:06:04,920 --> 02:06:07,400
Speaker 2: was in it is no longer running for presidents.

2158
02:06:07,560 --> 02:06:09,760
Speaker 3: That's fair. That one was a little historic.

2159
02:06:09,880 --> 02:06:11,840
Speaker 15: Yeah, do we want to get into a little bit

2160
02:06:11,840 --> 02:06:12,720
Speaker 15: of the pre show at all?

2161
02:06:12,840 --> 02:06:14,880
Speaker 13: Or sure we could talk about the pre show first?

2162
02:06:15,120 --> 02:06:15,360
Speaker 6: Yeah?

2163
02:06:15,440 --> 02:06:17,360
Speaker 2: Why not? Why don't you start there?

2164
02:06:17,400 --> 02:06:17,879
Speaker 4: Sophie.

2165
02:06:18,080 --> 02:06:21,640
Speaker 15: During the pre show, Fox News was talking about how

2166
02:06:21,680 --> 02:06:24,680
Speaker 15: the Trump campaign says that he will only go low

2167
02:06:25,360 --> 02:06:29,480
Speaker 15: on the issues, and he did not. They also had

2168
02:06:29,840 --> 02:06:33,800
Speaker 15: a guy who is on TV way too much Byron Donald,

2169
02:06:34,240 --> 02:06:38,520
Speaker 15: where he said that Kamala, we know Biden is not

2170
02:06:38,600 --> 02:06:40,560
Speaker 15: running the country your VP.

2171
02:06:41,040 --> 02:06:43,120
Speaker 3: Now basically what.

2172
02:06:43,000 --> 02:06:46,320
Speaker 15: They they kind of just did the same sad talking

2173
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:50,760
Speaker 15: points and then CNN did, I mean, this is not

2174
02:06:50,840 --> 02:06:53,560
Speaker 15: that interesting, to be honest, like CNN talked about how

2175
02:06:53,600 --> 02:06:57,960
Speaker 15: important this was, and Chris Wallace specifically said that Trump's

2176
02:06:57,960 --> 02:07:00,680
Speaker 15: biggest strength is he doesn't talk like a Paulian. I

2177
02:07:00,720 --> 02:07:03,880
Speaker 15: don't think that helped him tonight, to be honest, not tonight.

2178
02:07:03,880 --> 02:07:06,480
Speaker 2: Well, you know, to be honest, here's what I would

2179
02:07:06,480 --> 02:07:10,240
Speaker 2: say that was true of why he won. That played

2180
02:07:10,240 --> 02:07:13,400
Speaker 2: a major role in winning. But he talks like a

2181
02:07:13,440 --> 02:07:17,920
Speaker 2: politician now because politics has reordered itself around trump Ism,

2182
02:07:17,960 --> 02:07:21,680
Speaker 2: particularly on the right. But even Harris and Walls are

2183
02:07:21,720 --> 02:07:26,200
Speaker 2: a little trumpier than certainly any Democratic politician was before

2184
02:07:26,240 --> 02:07:26,760
Speaker 2: the selection.

2185
02:07:26,960 --> 02:07:29,560
Speaker 15: Right, and the most interesting thing that was said in

2186
02:07:29,920 --> 02:07:32,200
Speaker 15: both of these things to be which will bring us

2187
02:07:32,200 --> 02:07:35,200
Speaker 15: to the start of the debate. CNN was heavily focused

2188
02:07:35,240 --> 02:07:37,520
Speaker 15: on the fact that President Trump is almost a foot

2189
02:07:37,520 --> 02:07:40,400
Speaker 15: taller than Vice President Harris and asking if he will

2190
02:07:40,440 --> 02:07:43,960
Speaker 15: take advantage of that. He wouldn't even meet her across

2191
02:07:44,000 --> 02:07:45,880
Speaker 15: the stage to shake her hand. She walked all the

2192
02:07:45,880 --> 02:07:48,400
Speaker 15: way over to him. I genuinely think he did not

2193
02:07:48,480 --> 02:07:49,400
Speaker 15: want to shake her hand.

2194
02:07:50,160 --> 02:07:53,720
Speaker 2: No, he didn't, And I thought that was again, this

2195
02:07:53,800 --> 02:07:56,280
Speaker 2: all seems like very petty stuff to talk about, but

2196
02:07:56,360 --> 02:07:59,760
Speaker 2: this is the pettiest man alive, and like this stuff

2197
02:07:59,760 --> 02:08:02,280
Speaker 2: actually does matter. And I think it was a pretty

2198
02:08:02,320 --> 02:08:05,200
Speaker 2: intelligent strategic move. I think it started off the night

2199
02:08:05,760 --> 02:08:08,640
Speaker 2: with him off ballance. She immediately put him off balance

2200
02:08:08,640 --> 02:08:12,640
Speaker 2: and pissed him off, and he didn't really recover. He

2201
02:08:12,680 --> 02:08:15,840
Speaker 2: had some moments. He certainly was not weak everywhere I

2202
02:08:15,880 --> 02:08:19,560
Speaker 2: think he was. He was lie like his economy. Everything

2203
02:08:19,560 --> 02:08:21,680
Speaker 2: he says about like tariffs is like it's a nonsense

2204
02:08:21,720 --> 02:08:25,760
Speaker 2: policy that would devastate like large chunks of this country.

2205
02:08:26,240 --> 02:08:28,840
Speaker 2: But I think his messaging was pretty effective there. It

2206
02:08:28,880 --> 02:08:31,200
Speaker 2: probably is going to work for a lot of moderates.

2207
02:08:31,240 --> 02:08:34,960
Speaker 2: I thought his messaging on Afghanistan was really effective. I

2208
02:08:34,960 --> 02:08:37,360
Speaker 2: think he probably won that segment of the debate just

2209
02:08:37,400 --> 02:08:39,000
Speaker 2: in terms of what's going to play better.

2210
02:08:39,080 --> 02:08:40,680
Speaker 3: Those are the two definitely right.

2211
02:08:41,200 --> 02:08:44,840
Speaker 2: But you know, he didn't lose every clash they had.

2212
02:08:45,160 --> 02:08:48,160
Speaker 2: He never got momentum, and he was never able to

2213
02:08:48,280 --> 02:08:51,400
Speaker 2: build momentum. Even when he had a win, he was

2214
02:08:51,440 --> 02:08:54,080
Speaker 2: never able to tie that into a greater pattern like

2215
02:08:54,120 --> 02:08:56,640
Speaker 2: he was with Biden. He was never able to get

2216
02:08:56,680 --> 02:08:59,520
Speaker 2: any kind of weight behind him. He just kind of

2217
02:08:59,600 --> 02:09:00,800
Speaker 2: was wabbed the whole.

2218
02:09:00,680 --> 02:09:03,960
Speaker 15: Night, which I think at this scale is the first

2219
02:09:03,960 --> 02:09:04,960
Speaker 15: we've seen from him.

2220
02:09:05,400 --> 02:09:08,320
Speaker 13: No, it was definitely Kamala going in hard for the

2221
02:09:08,360 --> 02:09:11,400
Speaker 13: handshake at the very very start of the debate was

2222
02:09:11,560 --> 02:09:15,760
Speaker 13: her equivalent of Trump following around Hillary Clinton on that

2223
02:09:15,800 --> 02:09:19,560
Speaker 13: debate stage. Yep, it threw him off balance. He wasn't

2224
02:09:19,560 --> 02:09:22,960
Speaker 13: expecting it. It immediately kind of gave her the upper

2225
02:09:23,000 --> 02:09:26,280
Speaker 13: hand literally wow and controlling where the conversation was going

2226
02:09:26,360 --> 02:09:29,560
Speaker 13: to go. Like Trump refused to look at Kamala through

2227
02:09:29,640 --> 02:09:32,560
Speaker 13: the entire debate. He only looked straight ahead. Kamala was

2228
02:09:32,600 --> 02:09:35,440
Speaker 13: often addressing Trump directly looking at him and then also

2229
02:09:35,480 --> 02:09:38,200
Speaker 13: turning towards the cameras. Trump was just straight faced the

2230
02:09:38,360 --> 02:09:41,520
Speaker 13: entire time. He never he never looked at her or

2231
02:09:41,800 --> 02:09:46,080
Speaker 13: acknowledged her like visually. It was kind of odd to see,

2232
02:09:46,080 --> 02:09:48,879
Speaker 13: and throughout the debate he just kept getting really angry

2233
02:09:48,920 --> 02:09:52,800
Speaker 13: and almost like childish. Harris maintained her ability to present

2234
02:09:52,840 --> 02:09:55,480
Speaker 13: herself as like the more hopeful candidate and by and

2235
02:09:55,560 --> 02:09:56,960
Speaker 13: large led the debate.

2236
02:09:57,040 --> 02:09:57,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2237
02:09:57,600 --> 02:10:00,680
Speaker 13: Yeah, he kept having to like follow her. You just

2238
02:10:00,680 --> 02:10:02,200
Speaker 13: came off as like an angry child.

2239
02:10:02,520 --> 02:10:02,680
Speaker 9: Now.

2240
02:10:02,880 --> 02:10:05,920
Speaker 13: She did not answer some of the questions about like

2241
02:10:05,960 --> 02:10:08,680
Speaker 13: her policy shifts, but she was able to deflect those

2242
02:10:08,760 --> 02:10:12,600
Speaker 13: questions and Trump to go off topic to talking about

2243
02:10:12,680 --> 02:10:16,120
Speaker 13: like crowd sizes and rumors about eating dogs. Trump wasn't

2244
02:10:16,120 --> 02:10:18,160
Speaker 13: able to actually talk about what his plans for the

2245
02:10:18,160 --> 02:10:21,520
Speaker 13: country were. Harris just kept him like complaining about weird nonsense,

2246
02:10:21,560 --> 02:10:23,920
Speaker 13: going off on tagents, and always going back to talking

2247
02:10:23,960 --> 02:10:27,640
Speaker 13: about immigrants. He just couldn't control the conversation at all.

2248
02:10:28,240 --> 02:10:30,760
Speaker 2: No, and the crowd size stuff. Like he was very

2249
02:10:30,800 --> 02:10:33,960
Speaker 2: clearly like on the verge of kind of losing it there,

2250
02:10:34,080 --> 02:10:36,080
Speaker 2: which was interesting to see.

2251
02:10:36,240 --> 02:10:40,480
Speaker 15: CNN claimed during their post show that that moment was

2252
02:10:40,520 --> 02:10:43,000
Speaker 15: when he never recovered after the crowd size stuff.

2253
02:10:43,040 --> 02:10:44,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's probably accurate.

2254
02:10:44,640 --> 02:10:47,600
Speaker 15: Fair, Yeah, that's a fair analysis from CNN.

2255
02:10:48,320 --> 02:10:50,840
Speaker 2: I would say that he didn't he never recovered from

2256
02:10:50,880 --> 02:10:53,840
Speaker 2: the opening handshake, Like, but that's when it was kind

2257
02:10:53,840 --> 02:10:57,040
Speaker 2: of undeniable, the crowd sized thing like, because he kept

2258
02:10:57,080 --> 02:10:59,240
Speaker 2: trying to get back on the rails, and I think

2259
02:10:59,280 --> 02:11:01,760
Speaker 2: he gave up. And the clearest example of that was

2260
02:11:02,320 --> 02:11:04,720
Speaker 2: his closing statements, which I know we're kind of jumping

2261
02:11:04,760 --> 02:11:08,440
Speaker 2: around here, but Kamala's closing statements were the kind of

2262
02:11:08,480 --> 02:11:11,640
Speaker 2: closing statements you give if you are trying to become

2263
02:11:11,680 --> 02:11:16,480
Speaker 2: the president, and Trump's you can contrast it to the

2264
02:11:16,520 --> 02:11:19,720
Speaker 2: way he was talking during his big RNC speech, which

2265
02:11:19,760 --> 02:11:24,520
Speaker 2: was certainly much too long, but was clearly intentional for

2266
02:11:24,560 --> 02:11:27,280
Speaker 2: the most part, was a better speech. Yeah, it's like

2267
02:11:27,280 --> 02:11:30,080
Speaker 2: there was some ad libbing there. He did some, but

2268
02:11:30,240 --> 02:11:32,760
Speaker 2: this was clearly not written down ahead of time. It

2269
02:11:32,760 --> 02:11:35,040
Speaker 2: did not sound like that. It made no sense. Yeah,

2270
02:11:35,040 --> 02:11:35,760
Speaker 2: it was nonsense.

2271
02:11:36,120 --> 02:11:38,680
Speaker 13: Kamala's ending statement was talking about how this is a

2272
02:11:38,680 --> 02:11:41,480
Speaker 13: fight for two different versions of what this country will

2273
02:11:41,480 --> 02:11:45,839
Speaker 13: look like, you know, very politician e speech. Trump didn't

2274
02:11:45,960 --> 02:11:49,080
Speaker 13: talk about himself at all. He just was complaining that

2275
02:11:49,160 --> 02:11:51,480
Speaker 13: if Kamala Harris has so many great ideas for the country,

2276
02:11:51,600 --> 02:11:54,240
Speaker 13: why hasn't she enacted them? And the answer is because

2277
02:11:54,240 --> 02:11:56,680
Speaker 13: she's not the president. Yes, but he did not talk

2278
02:11:56,680 --> 02:11:58,840
Speaker 13: about his own version of the country. He was just

2279
02:11:58,920 --> 02:12:01,880
Speaker 13: complaining about how much he didn't like Kamala Harris and

2280
02:12:01,960 --> 02:12:04,520
Speaker 13: that Kamala Harris is promising to do great things even

2281
02:12:04,560 --> 02:12:06,600
Speaker 13: though that she's not like doing them right now as

2282
02:12:06,640 --> 02:12:09,720
Speaker 13: vice president. And that was his messaging, at.

2283
02:12:09,680 --> 02:12:11,880
Speaker 2: Least in the pre show that I watched, and in

2284
02:12:11,920 --> 02:12:14,800
Speaker 2: a lot of like the punditry I read before this,

2285
02:12:15,280 --> 02:12:17,440
Speaker 2: the thing that kept getting reinforced was that this has

2286
02:12:17,480 --> 02:12:19,840
Speaker 2: to be a debate about the issues. The Americans that

2287
02:12:19,880 --> 02:12:23,520
Speaker 2: are still undecided want to hear what people's plans are

2288
02:12:23,560 --> 02:12:27,520
Speaker 2: for the country. Now. Do I believe that's the case.

2289
02:12:27,880 --> 02:12:33,320
Speaker 2: I'm not necessarily the most optimistic about how seriously Americans

2290
02:12:33,360 --> 02:12:37,120
Speaker 2: take political policy. But if that is the case, Trump

2291
02:12:37,320 --> 02:12:39,960
Speaker 2: blew his chance to talk about what he wants to

2292
02:12:39,960 --> 02:12:43,360
Speaker 2: do as president because he number one, was extremely defensive.

2293
02:12:43,400 --> 02:12:47,720
Speaker 2: He spent more time denying things that he wasn't going

2294
02:12:47,800 --> 02:12:50,240
Speaker 2: to do. Like it she got him very good on

2295
02:12:50,280 --> 02:12:52,640
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. That has proven to be an extremely

2296
02:12:52,640 --> 02:12:56,320
Speaker 2: effective line of attack, and he was really he had

2297
02:12:56,360 --> 02:12:59,160
Speaker 2: to not just deny that he planned to like in

2298
02:12:59,280 --> 02:13:02,040
Speaker 2: State Project T twenty five as present, but like he

2299
02:13:02,080 --> 02:13:04,320
Speaker 2: had to repeatedly claim I've never read it like, I

2300
02:13:04,360 --> 02:13:05,400
Speaker 2: don't know what's in it.

2301
02:13:05,480 --> 02:13:06,800
Speaker 3: I don't want to read it.

2302
02:13:07,000 --> 02:13:10,120
Speaker 15: I have nothing to do with Project twenty twenty five.

2303
02:13:11,200 --> 02:13:13,920
Speaker 2: In a way that sounded almost panicked. Yeah, right, like

2304
02:13:14,040 --> 02:13:17,400
Speaker 2: where he really I'm kind of surprised they didn't give

2305
02:13:17,480 --> 02:13:20,200
Speaker 2: him a better response on that, that they didn't really

2306
02:13:20,280 --> 02:13:22,360
Speaker 2: drill that down, and I wonder if they did. And

2307
02:13:22,440 --> 02:13:26,160
Speaker 2: he just was so flustered and pissed that he didn't

2308
02:13:26,160 --> 02:13:28,920
Speaker 2: do it. But he certainly did not have an effective

2309
02:13:28,960 --> 02:13:33,000
Speaker 2: response to that one. And when he kept repeatedly being

2310
02:13:33,040 --> 02:13:35,920
Speaker 2: asked to give his policy on how he would like

2311
02:13:36,040 --> 02:13:39,920
Speaker 2: fix the Affordable Care Act or replace it, he just punted.

2312
02:13:40,280 --> 02:13:42,200
Speaker 15: He just kept saying it's terrible.

2313
02:13:42,560 --> 02:13:45,120
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, yeah, it's terrible, but i can't do

2314
02:13:45,240 --> 02:13:47,560
Speaker 2: anything about it, so I'm not going to repeal it,

2315
02:13:47,960 --> 02:13:50,440
Speaker 2: but like We've got to do better. It was. It

2316
02:13:50,480 --> 02:13:51,760
Speaker 2: was a really weak answer.

2317
02:13:52,480 --> 02:13:53,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2318
02:13:53,280 --> 02:13:55,760
Speaker 13: One thing I found interesting is that the last debate

2319
02:13:55,800 --> 02:13:57,760
Speaker 13: was full of so many AD breaks and we went

2320
02:13:57,840 --> 02:14:02,040
Speaker 13: full like a one hour, yeah, full hour before before ads,

2321
02:14:02,440 --> 02:14:05,240
Speaker 13: and speaking of ads, oh wow, we have gone a

2322
02:14:05,280 --> 02:14:08,120
Speaker 13: full thirteen minutes, and that means it's time for us

2323
02:14:08,160 --> 02:14:08,960
Speaker 13: to take an ad break.

2324
02:14:19,560 --> 02:14:20,960
Speaker 3: All right, we are back.

2325
02:14:21,320 --> 02:14:23,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Can I get to one thing first because I

2326
02:14:24,000 --> 02:14:27,920
Speaker 2: just came across this. It's about the Haitian immigrants. PBS

2327
02:14:28,040 --> 02:14:31,200
Speaker 2: put up a documentary like literally a day or two

2328
02:14:31,280 --> 02:14:34,360
Speaker 2: ago talking, yeah, one day ago, talking about this, and

2329
02:14:34,400 --> 02:14:38,080
Speaker 2: they interview a factory owner in Springfield, Ohio about what

2330
02:14:38,160 --> 02:14:40,600
Speaker 2: he thinks of Haitian migration, and he's like, I wish

2331
02:14:40,800 --> 02:14:42,640
Speaker 2: a lot more of them would come. They're the only

2332
02:14:42,720 --> 02:14:44,920
Speaker 2: people in town who don't do drugs and come to

2333
02:14:45,000 --> 02:14:48,320
Speaker 2: work on time. I just thought that was a great,

2334
02:14:48,520 --> 02:14:52,760
Speaker 2: great Springfield, Ohio representation. I hope that guy's happened a

2335
02:14:52,760 --> 02:14:53,320
Speaker 2: good night.

2336
02:14:54,000 --> 02:14:57,680
Speaker 15: Great quote there, Robert, Yeah, Gerre, what do you want

2337
02:14:57,720 --> 02:14:58,400
Speaker 15: to talk about next?

2338
02:14:58,920 --> 02:14:59,000
Speaker 4: Now?

2339
02:14:59,040 --> 02:15:00,240
Speaker 13: In this middle section, it is kind of I want

2340
02:15:00,240 --> 02:15:01,800
Speaker 13: to go over some of what they actually talked about

2341
02:15:01,840 --> 02:15:04,640
Speaker 13: during the debate, a few of kind of the main topics.

2342
02:15:04,880 --> 02:15:07,440
Speaker 13: They started with the economy. Kamla was talking about how

2343
02:15:07,440 --> 02:15:10,360
Speaker 13: there's a shortage of homes, they're the cost of housing

2344
02:15:10,680 --> 02:15:13,640
Speaker 13: is just too high, and she's going to have tax

2345
02:15:13,720 --> 02:15:17,680
Speaker 13: cuts for families and warned about Trump's quote unquote sales

2346
02:15:17,760 --> 02:15:22,320
Speaker 13: tax that would rise costs for households by nearly four

2347
02:15:22,360 --> 02:15:25,160
Speaker 13: thousand dollars a year now. This is in reference to

2348
02:15:25,240 --> 02:15:27,800
Speaker 13: Trump's tariffs, which he then talked about next. They know

2349
02:15:27,840 --> 02:15:30,640
Speaker 13: they're not sales tax, they're tariffs, and that countries will

2350
02:15:30,640 --> 02:15:32,320
Speaker 13: pay us back for all that we've done in the

2351
02:15:32,400 --> 02:15:36,520
Speaker 13: world's insane, which will bainly mean that our economy will

2352
02:15:36,520 --> 02:15:39,800
Speaker 13: do worse and things will be more expensive for us.

2353
02:15:39,280 --> 02:15:42,480
Speaker 15: I thought Kama was pretty strong during that section in

2354
02:15:42,560 --> 02:15:47,520
Speaker 15: terms of like her response. She directly mentioned Goldman Sachs,

2355
02:15:47,960 --> 02:15:50,720
Speaker 15: which is something that's come out in the last couple

2356
02:15:50,800 --> 02:15:55,320
Speaker 15: days from Reuters. It's that the Goldman Sacks's biggest boost

2357
02:15:55,400 --> 02:15:58,839
Speaker 15: you as economy from Maharis when talking about US economic

2358
02:15:58,880 --> 02:16:00,640
Speaker 15: growth would likely get the biggest boost in the coming

2359
02:16:00,640 --> 02:16:03,080
Speaker 15: two years from Democrats headed by Kamala Harris winning the

2360
02:16:03,080 --> 02:16:07,280
Speaker 15: White House in Congress in Novembers election. And she specifically

2361
02:16:08,080 --> 02:16:12,040
Speaker 15: called out to that, And her being actually able to

2362
02:16:12,080 --> 02:16:15,440
Speaker 15: call out to something like that in a debate was

2363
02:16:15,520 --> 02:16:17,800
Speaker 15: something we I haven't seen in a while on a debate,

2364
02:16:17,840 --> 02:16:21,080
Speaker 15: and so that was something that I particularly took note of.

2365
02:16:21,400 --> 02:16:24,440
Speaker 13: Yeah, actually slight relevant authorities on issues.

2366
02:16:24,640 --> 02:16:28,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, she did a lot of that. She definitely

2367
02:16:28,200 --> 02:16:31,200
Speaker 2: had her moments where she would avoid responses. I noted

2368
02:16:31,240 --> 02:16:34,720
Speaker 2: she consistently refused to answer, are there limitations you think

2369
02:16:34,760 --> 02:16:39,000
Speaker 2: should be in place on when people can get abortions? Right? Yeah,

2370
02:16:39,080 --> 02:16:41,320
Speaker 2: she just kind of did not answer that one. Now,

2371
02:16:41,520 --> 02:16:44,320
Speaker 2: to be frank, I think that's a bullshit question, and

2372
02:16:44,360 --> 02:16:47,240
Speaker 2: I think a redirection was pretty effective. Yeah, But as

2373
02:16:47,280 --> 02:16:51,120
Speaker 2: a general rule, when she answered questions, she cited statistics

2374
02:16:51,280 --> 02:16:56,240
Speaker 2: and like studies and did a pretty a pretty good job. Now, again,

2375
02:16:56,600 --> 02:16:58,840
Speaker 2: how well is that going to matter? We're still very

2376
02:16:58,879 --> 02:17:02,560
Speaker 2: early in the pundit cycle here. It seems pretty clear

2377
02:17:02,600 --> 02:17:07,280
Speaker 2: that most of the mainstream media, including Fox Like, agrees

2378
02:17:08,160 --> 02:17:11,680
Speaker 2: Harris won the night. Polymarket predicts a ninety seven percent

2379
02:17:11,760 --> 02:17:14,680
Speaker 2: chance that Harris is judged the winner in the debate snappoles,

2380
02:17:15,080 --> 02:17:17,879
Speaker 2: which I found out from Nate Silver's quick reaction, where

2381
02:17:17,920 --> 02:17:21,240
Speaker 2: he also notes, quote bitcoin prices are down, which also

2382
02:17:21,280 --> 02:17:22,880
Speaker 2: implies a loss for Trump.

2383
02:17:24,959 --> 02:17:26,160
Speaker 15: That's very funny.

2384
02:17:27,560 --> 02:17:31,440
Speaker 13: I love that Bitcoin's a good political needle to see

2385
02:17:31,480 --> 02:17:32,560
Speaker 13: where the country's going.

2386
02:17:32,800 --> 02:17:35,760
Speaker 2: I'll tell you the happiest assuming that we don't usher

2387
02:17:35,800 --> 02:17:39,040
Speaker 2: in a new fascist or you know, a significantly worse

2388
02:17:39,280 --> 02:17:42,240
Speaker 2: state in November. The best thing about it is going

2389
02:17:42,280 --> 02:17:44,200
Speaker 2: to be not needing to pay attention to Nate Silver

2390
02:17:44,280 --> 02:17:45,320
Speaker 2: for another four years.

2391
02:17:45,520 --> 02:17:46,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, you know.

2392
02:17:47,160 --> 02:17:49,480
Speaker 2: He did make one other point that I found kind

2393
02:17:49,480 --> 02:17:52,920
Speaker 2: of funny, which was his argument that, like well, Trump

2394
02:17:52,959 --> 02:17:55,600
Speaker 2: is a lot taller. The stature gap in terms of

2395
02:17:55,600 --> 02:17:58,959
Speaker 2: physical size was also notable, especially with Harris having a

2396
02:17:59,000 --> 02:18:01,920
Speaker 2: shorter podium. And you'll hear people say that you should

2397
02:18:01,920 --> 02:18:04,000
Speaker 2: watch the debate with the sound off, and by that

2398
02:18:04,080 --> 02:18:06,200
Speaker 2: measure it was much closer than with the sound on.

2399
02:18:06,560 --> 02:18:10,840
Speaker 3: Who says that name? Has ever said that, who's gonna

2400
02:18:10,879 --> 02:18:12,640
Speaker 3: watch the debate with the sound off?

2401
02:18:12,840 --> 02:18:16,280
Speaker 2: Stick to Poles man, what the fuck is wrong with you?

2402
02:18:16,800 --> 02:18:19,400
Speaker 13: These debates used to be audio only. They were a

2403
02:18:19,480 --> 02:18:22,160
Speaker 13: radio broadcasts. That is, that's how the TA started.

2404
02:18:22,280 --> 02:18:25,240
Speaker 15: That is so unwell of him to say what are you?

2405
02:18:25,280 --> 02:18:28,680
Speaker 15: What are you doing? Why think that over head? And

2406
02:18:28,720 --> 02:18:30,160
Speaker 15: don't put that on the internet.

2407
02:18:30,200 --> 02:18:31,039
Speaker 3: He is a good one.

2408
02:18:32,000 --> 02:18:35,720
Speaker 2: Yes, every second Nate Silver isn't writing a blog post

2409
02:18:35,879 --> 02:18:39,240
Speaker 2: or looking at Poles he is he is sitting in

2410
02:18:38,720 --> 02:18:43,920
Speaker 2: a shitty bar in like Fremont Street, Vegas, playing like

2411
02:18:44,120 --> 02:18:47,480
Speaker 2: mid Steaks poker. So he probably does consume a lot

2412
02:18:47,520 --> 02:18:49,400
Speaker 2: of television with the sound off.

2413
02:18:49,800 --> 02:18:51,520
Speaker 3: But to go back to the economy.

2414
02:18:51,720 --> 02:18:54,400
Speaker 13: So as Kamla was talking about her plans for like

2415
02:18:54,640 --> 02:18:58,480
Speaker 13: tax credits and tax cuts helping people buy homes, Trump

2416
02:18:58,600 --> 02:19:02,520
Speaker 13: was just talking about and immediately brought up that one

2417
02:19:02,520 --> 02:19:05,119
Speaker 13: of the things that's affecting the economy is that there's

2418
02:19:05,160 --> 02:19:07,680
Speaker 13: there's millions of people pouring in from prisons and a

2419
02:19:07,760 --> 02:19:11,920
Speaker 13: sane asylums, taking jobs from black and Hispanic and union workers.

2420
02:19:12,320 --> 02:19:15,880
Speaker 13: That these immigrants are taking over towns and buildings violently,

2421
02:19:16,879 --> 02:19:19,680
Speaker 13: And it's just immediately that's that, that's what that's what

2422
02:19:19,720 --> 02:19:22,120
Speaker 13: he goes to because he has really just nothing else.

2423
02:19:22,360 --> 02:19:26,640
Speaker 15: He also said people can't buy bacon, cereal and eggs

2424
02:19:26,680 --> 02:19:28,080
Speaker 15: cereal cereal.

2425
02:19:28,200 --> 02:19:30,280
Speaker 3: Of all the foods to choose cereal.

2426
02:19:31,600 --> 02:19:34,440
Speaker 13: So yeah, tried to talk about like inflation and stuff.

2427
02:19:34,720 --> 02:19:37,080
Speaker 13: It just it just didn't go very well, especially because

2428
02:19:37,080 --> 02:19:40,000
Speaker 13: inflations rose so much during the pandemic when he was president.

2429
02:19:40,320 --> 02:19:43,039
Speaker 13: It just didn't play very well at all. Immediately it

2430
02:19:43,080 --> 02:19:45,520
Speaker 13: was clear that Kamala was kind of the front runner.

2431
02:19:45,760 --> 02:19:48,840
Speaker 13: The next topic was abortion, which Kamala also did very well,

2432
02:19:48,879 --> 02:19:52,000
Speaker 13: and Trump just really lost it because he couldn't stop

2433
02:19:52,040 --> 02:19:56,279
Speaker 13: talking about how Tim Walls wants to execute babies after birth,

2434
02:19:56,800 --> 02:19:58,960
Speaker 13: and this just this was the main thing he talked about.

2435
02:19:59,000 --> 02:20:02,480
Speaker 13: He was very defensive about his stance on a national

2436
02:20:02,480 --> 02:20:06,640
Speaker 13: abortion ban. Moderators asked him about his contradictory abortion statements,

2437
02:20:06,640 --> 02:20:08,840
Speaker 13: about how he's voting for an abortion ban in Florida

2438
02:20:09,080 --> 02:20:12,680
Speaker 13: but is claiming to not want one nationally, and Trump

2439
02:20:12,720 --> 02:20:14,400
Speaker 13: just didn't know how to talk about this topic very

2440
02:20:14,440 --> 02:20:18,360
Speaker 13: well and just kept saying that Democrats are evil because

2441
02:20:18,400 --> 02:20:22,200
Speaker 13: they want to do nine month abortions, seven month, eight

2442
02:20:22,200 --> 02:20:27,000
Speaker 13: month abortions, post birth executions, they will execute the baby,

2443
02:20:27,240 --> 02:20:29,880
Speaker 13: which was I believe this was like the first fact

2444
02:20:29,959 --> 02:20:31,560
Speaker 13: check for the night, and this is what kind of

2445
02:20:31,560 --> 02:20:33,800
Speaker 13: really scared Trump is. He was like, Oh, they're actually

2446
02:20:33,800 --> 02:20:36,480
Speaker 13: gonna call me on this stuff. Moderator said that there's

2447
02:20:36,520 --> 02:20:39,520
Speaker 13: no states where you can kill babies after birth, and

2448
02:20:39,560 --> 02:20:41,959
Speaker 13: Trump just didn't know what to do. Kamala brought up

2449
02:20:41,959 --> 02:20:44,800
Speaker 13: Project to twenty twenty five and their plans for a

2450
02:20:44,879 --> 02:20:48,240
Speaker 13: national abortion ban. Trump made a little funny comment kind

2451
02:20:48,240 --> 02:20:53,320
Speaker 13: of throwing JD Vans under the buss about Trump vetoing

2452
02:20:53,400 --> 02:20:56,279
Speaker 13: a national abortion ban if it was passed by Congress.

2453
02:20:56,640 --> 02:20:59,080
Speaker 13: Trump said that he actually hadn't talked to Vance about that.

2454
02:21:00,120 --> 02:21:01,600
Speaker 3: I didn't discuss it with Jamie.

2455
02:21:01,720 --> 02:21:04,480
Speaker 2: By the way, I've been taken a break from Twitter,

2456
02:21:04,520 --> 02:21:07,039
Speaker 2: but I did catch a good post recently. JD. Vance,

2457
02:21:07,080 --> 02:21:09,320
Speaker 2: before the debate, made a claim that a bunch of

2458
02:21:09,320 --> 02:21:12,160
Speaker 2: people from Springfield who he won't name, have reached out

2459
02:21:12,160 --> 02:21:15,520
Speaker 2: to him talking about Haitians eating their pets, and then

2460
02:21:15,600 --> 02:21:17,680
Speaker 2: ended it by saying like, it's possible this will prove

2461
02:21:17,720 --> 02:21:21,400
Speaker 2: to be untrue. And someone just quote tweeted that and said,

2462
02:21:21,640 --> 02:21:24,280
Speaker 2: every day I see something that makes me understand why

2463
02:21:24,360 --> 02:21:27,720
Speaker 2: Vance's mom traded him for a couple of perk thirties.

2464
02:21:28,920 --> 02:21:29,560
Speaker 3: Incredible.

2465
02:21:33,040 --> 02:21:35,800
Speaker 13: Kamala basically said most of her regular talking points and abortion.

2466
02:21:35,959 --> 02:21:38,520
Speaker 13: She would like for the House in the Senate to

2467
02:21:38,760 --> 02:21:41,600
Speaker 13: put abortion protections into law and she would sign that

2468
02:21:41,640 --> 02:21:44,400
Speaker 13: bill and wants to restore the protections of Roe v. Wade,

2469
02:21:44,879 --> 02:21:48,560
Speaker 13: and also talked about how it's absurd to be talking

2470
02:21:48,640 --> 02:21:52,320
Speaker 13: about post birth executions and how this is like consulting.

2471
02:21:52,560 --> 02:21:55,119
Speaker 15: Yep, she's correct, Thank you so much.

2472
02:21:55,640 --> 02:21:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2473
02:21:56,240 --> 02:21:58,920
Speaker 13: Next thing was the border, very similar to both their

2474
02:21:59,000 --> 02:22:01,680
Speaker 13: RNC and their DNC speeches. Kamala talking about this kind

2475
02:22:01,680 --> 02:22:04,800
Speaker 13: of very conservative border bill that Trump shot down for

2476
02:22:04,879 --> 02:22:08,760
Speaker 13: political gain and then invited us to attend a Trump

2477
02:22:08,879 --> 02:22:11,760
Speaker 13: rally where he talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter

2478
02:22:12,240 --> 02:22:15,720
Speaker 13: and how windmills caused cancer, and that people leave early,

2479
02:22:16,080 --> 02:22:18,760
Speaker 13: and he never talks about you, the American people. So

2480
02:22:18,920 --> 02:22:21,760
Speaker 13: this was obviously giant bait for Trump, which he he

2481
02:22:22,200 --> 02:22:25,680
Speaker 13: took immediately. He just couldn't stop talking about people actually

2482
02:22:25,720 --> 02:22:27,520
Speaker 13: come to my rallies way more than they go to

2483
02:22:27,560 --> 02:22:31,080
Speaker 13: your rallies. They don't leave early. You have to bust

2484
02:22:31,080 --> 02:22:32,759
Speaker 13: in people to your rallies.

2485
02:22:32,640 --> 02:22:35,680
Speaker 15: And he claims she pays people to attend her rallies

2486
02:22:35,720 --> 02:22:36,240
Speaker 15: as well.

2487
02:22:36,520 --> 02:22:37,680
Speaker 3: He got so flustered.

2488
02:22:37,760 --> 02:22:39,920
Speaker 13: Is that this is what he started talking about the

2489
02:22:39,959 --> 02:22:42,960
Speaker 13: eating dogs thing. It's because he got so flustered on

2490
02:22:43,040 --> 02:22:45,800
Speaker 13: this line of argument about his crowd size that he

2491
02:22:45,879 --> 02:22:47,920
Speaker 13: just he just had to immediately talk about how there's

2492
02:22:47,920 --> 02:22:51,160
Speaker 13: immigrants eating dogs. Yeah, because he just didn't know what

2493
02:22:51,200 --> 02:22:51,480
Speaker 13: to do.

2494
02:22:51,800 --> 02:22:54,640
Speaker 2: I mean, it's actually kind of just a very like

2495
02:22:54,760 --> 02:22:59,560
Speaker 2: on the nose, but perfect representation of how racism works

2496
02:23:00,440 --> 02:23:03,520
Speaker 2: culturally a lot of the time, which is like white

2497
02:23:03,600 --> 02:23:07,480
Speaker 2: man feels aggrieved and threatened and immediately turns to attacking

2498
02:23:07,520 --> 02:23:10,959
Speaker 2: an entire group of people based on their race, like

2499
02:23:11,320 --> 02:23:13,879
Speaker 2: it really was the most direct example of that that

2500
02:23:13,959 --> 02:23:17,400
Speaker 2: you could possibly get, Like, he felt vulnerable and so

2501
02:23:17,480 --> 02:23:19,920
Speaker 2: he attacked a group of people for eating cats. He

2502
02:23:19,959 --> 02:23:20,880
Speaker 2: did a blood libel.

2503
02:23:21,360 --> 02:23:24,080
Speaker 13: I think a big part of Kamalist strategy here was

2504
02:23:24,160 --> 02:23:28,080
Speaker 13: to paint Trump as like an illegitimate figure in politics,

2505
02:23:28,160 --> 02:23:30,800
Speaker 13: like someone who's not like responsible to like lead the.

2506
02:23:30,760 --> 02:23:33,599
Speaker 3: Military and it's dangerous. Yeah, she bragged.

2507
02:23:33,280 --> 02:23:36,480
Speaker 13: About the endorsement of two hundred Republicans, including Dick Cheney

2508
02:23:36,640 --> 02:23:40,640
Speaker 13: hated that moment, like, no, but you know, is not great,

2509
02:23:41,040 --> 02:23:43,119
Speaker 13: but we'll see if it plays politically well.

2510
02:23:43,280 --> 02:23:43,920
Speaker 2: It might work.

2511
02:23:44,120 --> 02:23:47,960
Speaker 15: Yeah, it doesn't play well for us, but yes, doesn't

2512
02:23:48,000 --> 02:23:50,160
Speaker 15: mean it doesn't overall play well.

2513
02:23:50,680 --> 02:23:53,879
Speaker 13: Unfortunately, a lot of her statements seemed like she was

2514
02:23:53,879 --> 02:23:57,640
Speaker 13: trying to court both the NATSEC people and the courts

2515
02:23:57,680 --> 02:24:00,880
Speaker 13: if there's ever like a contested election, Like she wants

2516
02:24:00,920 --> 02:24:03,040
Speaker 13: those people to be on her side. And there was

2517
02:24:03,080 --> 02:24:05,240
Speaker 13: a lot of Commons throughout the debate that was kind

2518
02:24:05,240 --> 02:24:07,360
Speaker 13: of pointing to that and like showing how Trump's just

2519
02:24:07,400 --> 02:24:10,320
Speaker 13: like an unreliable and like dangerous figure to be in

2520
02:24:10,360 --> 02:24:13,680
Speaker 13: control of national security. Trump went on this interesting tangent

2521
02:24:13,720 --> 02:24:16,720
Speaker 13: about how he was actually good because he fired a

2522
02:24:16,760 --> 02:24:19,720
Speaker 13: whole bunch of those Republicans because they were because they

2523
02:24:19,720 --> 02:24:20,560
Speaker 13: were bad at their jobs.

2524
02:24:20,720 --> 02:24:22,880
Speaker 2: I thought it was one of his more effective moments.

2525
02:24:23,200 --> 02:24:26,480
Speaker 13: That was something we've never really seen done before, openly

2526
02:24:26,480 --> 02:24:28,600
Speaker 13: attacking military leaders in that fashion.

2527
02:24:28,879 --> 02:24:29,519
Speaker 15: Yeah.

2528
02:24:29,560 --> 02:24:31,800
Speaker 2: I didn't read it as attacking military leaders. I read

2529
02:24:31,800 --> 02:24:34,360
Speaker 2: it as him specifically stating because she was Harris had

2530
02:24:34,400 --> 02:24:37,240
Speaker 2: been talking about the Republicans from the Bush White House

2531
02:24:37,240 --> 02:24:39,840
Speaker 2: who had endorsed her, And I read it as Trump

2532
02:24:39,959 --> 02:24:42,840
Speaker 2: saying I brought in a lot of like rhinos, what

2533
02:24:42,879 --> 02:24:44,800
Speaker 2: he would call rhinos, but I brought in a lot

2534
02:24:44,840 --> 02:24:48,880
Speaker 2: of like old Republican veterans and fired them because they

2535
02:24:48,920 --> 02:24:51,120
Speaker 2: were bad at their job. And I thought that was

2536
02:24:51,120 --> 02:24:54,080
Speaker 2: one where I was like, well, yeah, they were, you know, like,

2537
02:24:54,120 --> 02:24:56,520
Speaker 2: you're not wrong. You didn't replace them with anyone better,

2538
02:24:56,600 --> 02:24:59,440
Speaker 2: but like they were. In fact, you did hire a

2539
02:24:59,480 --> 02:25:03,879
Speaker 2: bunch of Republican officials who had a long history working

2540
02:25:04,200 --> 02:25:08,560
Speaker 2: in other administrations, who sucked at what they did, you know, like,

2541
02:25:08,959 --> 02:25:11,520
Speaker 2: not wrong. Now it's interesting to have him say I

2542
02:25:11,600 --> 02:25:13,320
Speaker 2: brought in a lot of people, some of them were

2543
02:25:13,320 --> 02:25:14,560
Speaker 2: good and some of them were bad.

2544
02:25:14,760 --> 02:25:15,879
Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, I don't.

2545
02:25:15,680 --> 02:25:18,440
Speaker 2: Think I've ever heard a former president admit that during

2546
02:25:18,440 --> 02:25:18,920
Speaker 2: a debate.

2547
02:25:19,080 --> 02:25:21,680
Speaker 15: He was like, we don't talk about the good people.

2548
02:25:21,760 --> 02:25:24,120
Speaker 15: And it's like, well, why why don't you do that

2549
02:25:24,200 --> 02:25:26,920
Speaker 15: now during your debate. Yeah, here's your chance.

2550
02:25:27,879 --> 02:25:28,160
Speaker 6: JD.

2551
02:25:28,320 --> 02:25:31,640
Speaker 3: Vance great guy, great guy, great, great guy. Trump, So JD.

2552
02:25:31,720 --> 02:25:33,520
Speaker 15: Van's great guy. Never met him, don't know who he is.

2553
02:25:33,560 --> 02:25:35,480
Speaker 15: Who are you talking about, never talked to him.

2554
02:25:36,200 --> 02:25:39,120
Speaker 13: One of the more interesting questions the moderator asked was

2555
02:25:39,360 --> 02:25:42,880
Speaker 13: just directly asking Trump, how would you go about your

2556
02:25:43,080 --> 02:25:46,160
Speaker 13: massive deportation program? How would you actually go about deporting

2557
02:25:46,520 --> 02:25:51,320
Speaker 13: eleven million or more undocumented immigrants? And Trump did not

2558
02:25:51,480 --> 02:25:54,360
Speaker 13: have a real answer to this question. Trump said that,

2559
02:25:54,400 --> 02:25:56,440
Speaker 13: you know, there's actually way more of them here than

2560
02:25:56,520 --> 02:25:59,040
Speaker 13: what you would think. South America is sending all their

2561
02:25:59,080 --> 02:25:59,760
Speaker 13: criminals here.

2562
02:26:00,000 --> 02:26:02,800
Speaker 2: It's really interesting because he said, they say fifteen million,

2563
02:26:02,879 --> 02:26:04,959
Speaker 2: it's really twenty one million. And then he said, and

2564
02:26:05,040 --> 02:26:06,720
Speaker 2: it's a lot more than twenty one million.

2565
02:26:07,640 --> 02:26:09,640
Speaker 3: Okay, how many is it? Donald?

2566
02:26:11,120 --> 02:26:14,879
Speaker 13: The moderators challenged him on like rising crime rates, saying

2567
02:26:14,959 --> 02:26:17,920
Speaker 13: that the FBI is actually, you know, showing that crime

2568
02:26:18,000 --> 02:26:21,119
Speaker 13: is going down, and Trump then claimed that the FBI

2569
02:26:21,360 --> 02:26:25,199
Speaker 13: crime rates are fraudular, are fraudulent, which is the first

2570
02:26:25,200 --> 02:26:27,240
Speaker 13: time that you've seen, at least that I've seen him

2571
02:26:27,240 --> 02:26:29,920
Speaker 13: talk about it that way. Like usually on Fox News

2572
02:26:30,240 --> 02:26:32,720
Speaker 13: they will like mention that, but they'll be like, but

2573
02:26:33,120 --> 02:26:36,160
Speaker 13: people feel crime is going up, So that's what really matters.

2574
02:26:36,240 --> 02:26:38,560
Speaker 13: Even if even if the FBI claims it's going down,

2575
02:26:38,640 --> 02:26:42,200
Speaker 13: people still feel less safe. But he just openly said

2576
02:26:42,240 --> 02:26:44,560
Speaker 13: that those numbers are just like fake, like the FBI

2577
02:26:44,640 --> 02:26:47,440
Speaker 13: is just like lying saying that they aren't counting crimes

2578
02:26:47,440 --> 02:26:50,560
Speaker 13: in like the biggest major cities. Kanma's response to this

2579
02:26:50,879 --> 02:26:53,800
Speaker 13: was saying that that's rich coming from a convicted criminal.

2580
02:26:53,840 --> 02:26:57,120
Speaker 13: So we got that first, like prosecutor girl boss moment.

2581
02:26:57,400 --> 02:26:58,720
Speaker 3: Okay, hi've rise up.

2582
02:26:59,280 --> 02:27:01,600
Speaker 13: Trump complained about all of like the legal witch hunts

2583
02:27:01,600 --> 02:27:04,880
Speaker 13: he's been facing and said that, quote, I probably took

2584
02:27:04,879 --> 02:27:07,000
Speaker 13: a bullet to the head because of the things they

2585
02:27:07,080 --> 02:27:10,039
Speaker 13: say about me, unquote, which is just a fascinating way

2586
02:27:10,040 --> 02:27:12,720
Speaker 13: to frame that unhinged thing to say.

2587
02:27:12,680 --> 02:27:15,959
Speaker 2: It is, especially given how many Americans don't think he

2588
02:27:16,120 --> 02:27:17,240
Speaker 2: was shot in the head.

2589
02:27:21,160 --> 02:27:26,320
Speaker 15: You just know his advisors were like, what the fuck, Like,

2590
02:27:27,000 --> 02:27:29,119
Speaker 15: what are you saying right now?

2591
02:27:29,280 --> 02:27:29,600
Speaker 2: Ah?

2592
02:27:29,680 --> 02:27:30,000
Speaker 5: Fuck?

2593
02:27:30,400 --> 02:27:31,840
Speaker 2: Oh they are drinking tonight.

2594
02:27:32,560 --> 02:27:33,520
Speaker 3: Oh, they they.

2595
02:27:33,400 --> 02:27:34,960
Speaker 15: Are drinking tonight.

2596
02:27:35,800 --> 02:27:36,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2597
02:27:36,840 --> 02:27:40,000
Speaker 15: Yeah, And that's not even like the most unhinged thing

2598
02:27:40,040 --> 02:27:42,280
Speaker 15: he said, because the most unhinged thing he said the

2599
02:27:42,400 --> 02:27:46,360
Speaker 15: entire night came shortly after that, which was, she wants

2600
02:27:46,440 --> 02:27:53,840
Speaker 15: to do transgender operations on illegal aliens in prison. Based

2601
02:27:54,560 --> 02:28:00,440
Speaker 15: she wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens in prison.

2602
02:28:00,680 --> 02:28:07,360
Speaker 15: She wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens in.

2603
02:28:07,520 --> 02:28:09,840
Speaker 3: Prison, and the leader says she's a radical liberal.

2604
02:28:10,080 --> 02:28:13,120
Speaker 2: I believe that a president can perform surgery if that

2605
02:28:13,240 --> 02:28:17,800
Speaker 2: president wants to. Sophie and I support Kamala Harris's policy.

2606
02:28:17,840 --> 02:28:19,600
Speaker 15: You should have voted for Ben Carson, then.

2607
02:28:20,000 --> 02:28:24,760
Speaker 3: I did I write him in every year? Okay Jesus Christ,

2608
02:28:24,879 --> 02:28:25,520
Speaker 3: no you don't.

2609
02:28:27,640 --> 02:28:30,320
Speaker 13: There was a good tweet that remarked that it just

2610
02:28:30,360 --> 02:28:33,680
Speaker 13: sounds like he's talking like he's playing cards against humanity.

2611
02:28:33,760 --> 02:28:36,480
Speaker 13: He's just like change, He's just like changing out different

2612
02:28:36,520 --> 02:28:41,600
Speaker 13: words like transgender aliens, prison, surgery. I believe what he's

2613
02:28:41,600 --> 02:28:44,400
Speaker 13: referencing here is that both Fox News and Trump's campaign

2614
02:28:44,440 --> 02:28:46,880
Speaker 13: team the past few days have been talking about how

2615
02:28:46,959 --> 02:28:50,360
Speaker 13: in twenty twenty, Kamala made a statement basically saying that, yeah,

2616
02:28:50,360 --> 02:28:52,800
Speaker 13: we should like offer gender affirming health care to people

2617
02:28:52,840 --> 02:28:55,240
Speaker 13: in prison. Like, if you're in prison, we should not

2618
02:28:55,440 --> 02:28:58,440
Speaker 13: like deny health care to you just because you're locked up.

2619
02:28:58,840 --> 02:29:01,520
Speaker 13: That's like what he's talking about. That is specifically what

2620
02:29:02,080 --> 02:29:05,840
Speaker 13: he's referring to. But it just it's sounds just absolutely bad.

2621
02:29:05,879 --> 02:29:06,080
Speaker 7: Shit.

2622
02:29:06,680 --> 02:29:09,160
Speaker 13: Let's have another quick ad break. We will come back.

2623
02:29:09,160 --> 02:29:11,160
Speaker 13: I want to talk a little bit about January sixth,

2624
02:29:11,520 --> 02:29:15,039
Speaker 13: foreign policy, Israel, Palestine, and then some of Trump's and

2625
02:29:15,120 --> 02:29:18,320
Speaker 13: Kamala's post debate statements made to the press.

2626
02:29:29,400 --> 02:29:32,360
Speaker 3: All Right, we are so bad, so bad.

2627
02:29:32,440 --> 02:29:37,520
Speaker 2: It's so bad, like the Harris campaign kind of kind

2628
02:29:37,520 --> 02:29:40,720
Speaker 2: of She's been slowly kind of like flatlining in some

2629
02:29:40,760 --> 02:29:42,520
Speaker 2: of these polls. I do want to talk about that

2630
02:29:42,560 --> 02:29:44,920
Speaker 2: a little before we get into this, because it has

2631
02:29:44,959 --> 02:29:51,520
Speaker 2: been interesting. She's been losing kind of national popular vote momentum,

2632
02:29:51,600 --> 02:29:54,800
Speaker 2: and that has been narrowing. The swing states have not

2633
02:29:55,080 --> 02:29:57,480
Speaker 2: really narrowed in the same way. Yeah, which is not

2634
02:29:57,520 --> 02:30:00,480
Speaker 2: to say that she is a clear favorite. Everything basically

2635
02:30:00,520 --> 02:30:01,720
Speaker 2: is within the margin of error.

2636
02:30:01,800 --> 02:30:04,480
Speaker 13: She's barely ahead, but she's still ahead. It has been

2637
02:30:04,520 --> 02:30:08,160
Speaker 13: a really interesting change. It has not been the same.

2638
02:30:08,320 --> 02:30:11,560
Speaker 2: There's a newsletter I check on occasionally for stuff like

2639
02:30:11,600 --> 02:30:14,879
Speaker 2: this at GERMNTUM. That made what I thought was an

2640
02:30:14,879 --> 02:30:17,640
Speaker 2: interesting point, which was that it's possible that a lot

2641
02:30:17,640 --> 02:30:19,600
Speaker 2: of that has to do with the fact that the

2642
02:30:19,720 --> 02:30:22,440
Speaker 2: national popular vote has been narrowing as a result of

2643
02:30:22,440 --> 02:30:24,920
Speaker 2: the ads the Republicans have been pumping out because there

2644
02:30:25,040 --> 02:30:27,959
Speaker 2: wasn't a real strong consensus about who Harris was and

2645
02:30:28,000 --> 02:30:31,680
Speaker 2: now that's growing. But in a lot of these swing states,

2646
02:30:31,720 --> 02:30:34,400
Speaker 2: which are red states, people have been living under Republicans

2647
02:30:34,440 --> 02:30:36,840
Speaker 2: and are just a lot less kind of vulnerable to

2648
02:30:36,920 --> 02:30:40,720
Speaker 2: being drawn away by that kind of propaganda because they

2649
02:30:41,400 --> 02:30:41,959
Speaker 2: know what it's like.

2650
02:30:42,640 --> 02:30:45,280
Speaker 13: No, I mean, especially if you're looking at North Carolina,

2651
02:30:45,360 --> 02:30:48,560
Speaker 13: you're looking at Georgia. Those are two battlegrounds that the

2652
02:30:48,600 --> 02:30:51,280
Speaker 13: Harris campaign is targeting. I can definitely see that being

2653
02:30:51,560 --> 02:30:56,160
Speaker 13: being an aspect. So the mods turned the questions towards

2654
02:30:56,280 --> 02:31:00,480
Speaker 13: January sixth. Trump immediately claimed that nobody on the other

2655
02:31:00,560 --> 02:31:03,080
Speaker 13: side was killed, only Ash the bad that was killed

2656
02:31:03,120 --> 02:31:05,000
Speaker 13: by a bad police officer.

2657
02:31:06,120 --> 02:31:07,440
Speaker 15: Very ironic, but.

2658
02:31:07,520 --> 02:31:11,080
Speaker 2: Easily the only Coppall go to bat for the best

2659
02:31:11,120 --> 02:31:14,560
Speaker 2: shoot in twenty twenty one by a mile.

2660
02:31:15,320 --> 02:31:18,879
Speaker 13: And he then complained that why haven't BLM rioters been

2661
02:31:18,959 --> 02:31:22,440
Speaker 13: prosecuted in Seattle and Minneapolis, which of course they have.

2662
02:31:22,760 --> 02:31:24,920
Speaker 13: They are still they're still arresting people.

2663
02:31:25,320 --> 02:31:28,480
Speaker 2: Man, I've spent time in courtrooms with people, Like.

2664
02:31:28,640 --> 02:31:31,320
Speaker 15: Yes, I was shocked he did not call out Portland.

2665
02:31:31,520 --> 02:31:34,199
Speaker 2: It is interesting that he went for Seattle and not Portland.

2666
02:31:34,280 --> 02:31:36,600
Speaker 2: I guess maybe just says a lot about his media

2667
02:31:36,680 --> 02:31:40,800
Speaker 2: diet that he just maybe got a lot more Chaz

2668
02:31:40,959 --> 02:31:42,480
Speaker 2: stuff than he did Portland stuff.

2669
02:31:42,520 --> 02:31:42,920
Speaker 10: I don't know.

2670
02:31:43,120 --> 02:31:45,439
Speaker 13: He certainly did go after a commonal a few times

2671
02:31:45,200 --> 02:31:48,320
Speaker 13: for being pro defund the police back in twenty twenty.

2672
02:31:48,440 --> 02:31:51,840
Speaker 2: He really, he tried several times. He clearly she never

2673
02:31:51,840 --> 02:31:54,240
Speaker 2: took the bait. Yeah, she never took the bait. And

2674
02:31:54,240 --> 02:31:57,920
Speaker 2: that must have been one that his advisors really pushed

2675
02:31:58,000 --> 02:31:59,880
Speaker 2: him on. Yeah, like they must have said, you'll get her.

2676
02:32:01,080 --> 02:32:04,480
Speaker 13: It was both that and her previous like fracking policies,

2677
02:32:05,360 --> 02:32:08,560
Speaker 13: which which she has like backtracked on. And ye, you

2678
02:32:08,680 --> 02:32:10,840
Speaker 13: have to if you want to win Pennsylvania. So like,

2679
02:32:10,879 --> 02:32:13,520
Speaker 13: I understand why they're doing it. It sucks because the

2680
02:32:13,560 --> 02:32:17,000
Speaker 13: planet's burning, but right now they're trying to win Pennsylvania.

2681
02:32:17,280 --> 02:32:19,560
Speaker 13: The debate was in Pennsylvania, Like that's why she has

2682
02:32:19,560 --> 02:32:22,360
Speaker 13: backtracked on those policies. I think it's smart to deflect

2683
02:32:22,360 --> 02:32:24,760
Speaker 13: from that at least right now. But yeah, I mean,

2684
02:32:24,800 --> 02:32:26,600
Speaker 13: that's that's not surprising to me.

2685
02:32:26,920 --> 02:32:27,080
Speaker 3: Now.

2686
02:32:27,120 --> 02:32:30,760
Speaker 13: I think Kamala did a pretty good statement about January sixth.

2687
02:32:30,840 --> 02:32:33,360
Speaker 13: She said, I was at the Capitol on j sixth.

2688
02:32:33,520 --> 02:32:35,760
Speaker 13: He incited a violent mob. And now she got kind

2689
02:32:35,760 --> 02:32:38,640
Speaker 13: of emotional. She said one hundred and forty officers were

2690
02:32:38,640 --> 02:32:41,720
Speaker 13: injured and some died. Trump was impeached, which is something

2691
02:32:41,760 --> 02:32:44,000
Speaker 13: that just hasn't been talked about very much. Is like, yeah,

2692
02:32:44,040 --> 02:32:46,400
Speaker 13: Trump has been impeached. Why isn't that talked about very much?

2693
02:32:46,400 --> 02:32:50,359
Speaker 15: Because so many other things have happened, then everyone has forgotten.

2694
02:32:49,959 --> 02:32:53,880
Speaker 13: Yeah, that he was liter really impeached. Yeah, multiple times.

2695
02:32:54,080 --> 02:32:56,200
Speaker 13: And then she pointed to January sixth as like not

2696
02:32:56,280 --> 02:32:59,200
Speaker 13: the only incident. No, she pointed back to Charlottesville, talked

2697
02:32:59,200 --> 02:33:02,240
Speaker 13: about Trump's statements about Proud Boys and how the Proud

2698
02:33:02,280 --> 02:33:04,680
Speaker 13: Boy militia was told to stand back and stand by,

2699
02:33:05,280 --> 02:33:07,760
Speaker 13: and she kind of closed this this little January sixth

2700
02:33:08,160 --> 02:33:10,600
Speaker 13: monologue by saying, like, we don't have to go back

2701
02:33:10,640 --> 02:33:13,280
Speaker 13: to this. He says that if the election doesn't go

2702
02:33:13,320 --> 02:33:14,879
Speaker 13: to his liking there will be a blood bath.

2703
02:33:15,080 --> 02:33:16,599
Speaker 3: We don't have to go back.

2704
02:33:16,600 --> 02:33:19,920
Speaker 13: And she's positioning herself as like as an alternative towards

2705
02:33:19,959 --> 02:33:23,160
Speaker 13: like that type of chaos. Trump got very mad at this,

2706
02:33:24,000 --> 02:33:27,400
Speaker 13: very mad Trump talking about how Fox News debugged the

2707
02:33:27,480 --> 02:33:28,480
Speaker 13: Charlottesville quote.

2708
02:33:28,720 --> 02:33:31,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure.

2709
02:33:32,240 --> 02:33:34,080
Speaker 13: I know one other like fact checker I think with

2710
02:33:34,200 --> 02:33:38,240
Speaker 13: Snopes is like, actually, the Charlottesville quote is different in context,

2711
02:33:38,240 --> 02:33:39,920
Speaker 13: and at least a whole bunch of fact checkers that

2712
02:33:39,959 --> 02:33:42,720
Speaker 13: like I know and extremism reporters have kind of gotten

2713
02:33:42,720 --> 02:33:45,520
Speaker 13: on snopesas for this, because it's very clear it's a

2714
02:33:45,640 --> 02:33:49,480
Speaker 13: very disingenuous way of framing what he was trying to say. Yeah,

2715
02:33:49,560 --> 02:33:51,320
Speaker 13: we all know what happened on Charlottesville. We all know

2716
02:33:51,320 --> 02:33:52,280
Speaker 13: what he was talking about.

2717
02:33:52,520 --> 02:33:54,680
Speaker 15: Yeah, Cataboo is a really good video on it if

2718
02:33:54,720 --> 02:33:55,440
Speaker 15: you want to watch more.

2719
02:33:55,520 --> 02:33:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes she does.

2720
02:33:56,840 --> 02:33:59,240
Speaker 13: And then the moderators talked about how Trump has been

2721
02:33:59,280 --> 02:34:02,039
Speaker 13: falsely claiming for three and a half years that he

2722
02:34:02,120 --> 02:34:04,920
Speaker 13: won the twenty twenty election, but now says that he

2723
02:34:05,360 --> 02:34:07,920
Speaker 13: lost by a whisker, and Trump was startled by this.

2724
02:34:08,000 --> 02:34:10,920
Speaker 3: He's like, did I actually say that? I said that

2725
02:34:11,040 --> 02:34:13,760
Speaker 3: I said that. No, no, no, no, no, that was sarcastic,

2726
02:34:14,040 --> 02:34:14,879
Speaker 3: and it was.

2727
02:34:14,879 --> 02:34:17,359
Speaker 2: Like the only time I've ever heard him he sounded

2728
02:34:17,440 --> 02:34:21,520
Speaker 2: genuinely like confused, like maybe there was a little old man.

2729
02:34:21,560 --> 02:34:23,520
Speaker 2: But we were like, oh shit, what have I been saying.

2730
02:34:23,600 --> 02:34:25,959
Speaker 13: He's like, no, no, no, that was a sarcastic statement.

2731
02:34:26,200 --> 02:34:28,880
Speaker 13: I still think I won the twenty twenty election.

2732
02:34:30,280 --> 02:34:32,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he really And that was one of the

2733
02:34:32,680 --> 02:34:35,280
Speaker 2: more effective moderator moments because you could see the moderator

2734
02:34:35,360 --> 02:34:37,120
Speaker 2: was like, Oh, what a gift I've been given. I

2735
02:34:37,200 --> 02:34:40,080
Speaker 2: just want to make very clear. Let's have him say,

2736
02:34:40,120 --> 02:34:43,199
Speaker 2: Let's have him confirm what he means, like three times,

2737
02:34:43,280 --> 02:34:44,280
Speaker 2: and then we could move on.

2738
02:34:44,840 --> 02:34:47,640
Speaker 13: Kabla had a good reply talking about how like we

2739
02:34:47,720 --> 02:34:51,160
Speaker 13: can't have a candidate who's confused about how the elections work.

2740
02:34:51,320 --> 02:34:53,920
Speaker 3: And being like like she is correct, Yeah.

2741
02:34:53,959 --> 02:34:57,560
Speaker 13: Come on, great respond and then Trump immediately went on

2742
02:34:57,600 --> 02:35:01,600
Speaker 13: to defend Victor Horbon, Yes, the president of Hungary, seg

2743
02:35:01,879 --> 02:35:04,000
Speaker 13: some people call him the strong man because he's a

2744
02:35:04,040 --> 02:35:04,920
Speaker 13: really tough guy.

2745
02:35:05,160 --> 02:35:07,000
Speaker 15: He loves the strong man thing.

2746
02:35:07,280 --> 02:35:10,200
Speaker 2: That was my favorite part because he clearly misunderstood, no,

2747
02:35:10,320 --> 02:35:12,119
Speaker 2: strong man is a term for dictation.

2748
02:35:12,560 --> 02:35:19,000
Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, he just that was quite a moment for

2749
02:35:19,080 --> 02:35:19,720
Speaker 3: this country.

2750
02:35:19,840 --> 02:35:22,600
Speaker 15: It was just the fumbling and bumbling.

2751
02:35:22,920 --> 02:35:26,720
Speaker 2: I love it, you know what. Overall, good time, except

2752
02:35:26,720 --> 02:35:30,039
Speaker 2: for one thing that really sucked, which is several things

2753
02:35:30,040 --> 02:35:32,560
Speaker 2: that really sucked, which is whenever it came to something

2754
02:35:32,760 --> 02:35:36,280
Speaker 2: where a huge number of human lives were involved. Yeah,

2755
02:35:36,320 --> 02:35:38,680
Speaker 2: almost always it got kind of brushed over.

2756
02:35:39,040 --> 02:35:39,440
Speaker 3: Ukraine.

2757
02:35:39,560 --> 02:35:42,039
Speaker 2: I will say, I don't think it got a very

2758
02:35:42,240 --> 02:35:46,840
Speaker 2: good set of questions. It was the same shit that

2759
02:35:46,840 --> 02:35:50,400
Speaker 2: they've been asking both sides. Right, The Dims get asked,

2760
02:35:50,520 --> 02:35:53,440
Speaker 2: how are you going to actually conclude this conflict in

2761
02:35:53,480 --> 02:35:57,080
Speaker 2: a favorable way? And the Republicans get asked, are you

2762
02:35:57,200 --> 02:35:59,800
Speaker 2: just going to abandon Ukraine? Right? Like, that's the gist

2763
02:35:59,800 --> 02:36:03,959
Speaker 2: of what both candidates are being pushed on, and the

2764
02:36:04,040 --> 02:36:07,119
Speaker 2: gist of their responses is unchanged from everything we've heard

2765
02:36:07,120 --> 02:36:07,840
Speaker 2: earlier this year.

2766
02:36:07,920 --> 02:36:11,560
Speaker 15: Right, And despite being asked multiple times, Trump refused to

2767
02:36:11,600 --> 02:36:13,480
Speaker 15: answer if it was in the world's best interest of

2768
02:36:13,640 --> 02:36:16,160
Speaker 15: Ukraine wins the war. He was asked that several times,

2769
02:36:16,160 --> 02:36:18,200
Speaker 15: and he just he just said, I want the war

2770
02:36:18,240 --> 02:36:19,400
Speaker 15: to end, not an answer.

2771
02:36:19,440 --> 02:36:21,680
Speaker 2: And there wouldn't have been a war if I'd been president.

2772
02:36:22,440 --> 02:36:25,200
Speaker 15: This wouldn't have happened. Yeah, this wouldn't have happened. That's

2773
02:36:25,200 --> 02:36:25,640
Speaker 15: his claim.

2774
02:36:25,720 --> 02:36:28,600
Speaker 2: But you know, Harris did not have an answer, because

2775
02:36:28,640 --> 02:36:32,119
Speaker 2: there isn't one, no, no, this is an incredibly difficult war.

2776
02:36:32,400 --> 02:36:34,959
Speaker 2: Right now, I will say, I think like the actual

2777
02:36:35,000 --> 02:36:37,520
Speaker 2: things she should have done, and the thing that Biden

2778
02:36:37,560 --> 02:36:40,800
Speaker 2: should have done, is say, like we are removing all

2779
02:36:40,879 --> 02:36:44,039
Speaker 2: extant limitations on the weapons that we ship Ukraine and

2780
02:36:44,040 --> 02:36:45,760
Speaker 2: how they can use them. You know, at this point

2781
02:36:45,959 --> 02:36:48,920
Speaker 2: they have now invaded Russian territory and occupied hundreds of

2782
02:36:48,959 --> 02:36:51,280
Speaker 2: miles of it. Like, you know, that was something I

2783
02:36:51,320 --> 02:36:53,520
Speaker 2: was interested in that she should have hit on and

2784
02:36:53,560 --> 02:36:55,840
Speaker 2: did not, which Trump brought up the fact that Russia

2785
02:36:55,840 --> 02:36:58,280
Speaker 2: has nuclear weapons in a matter of like, we can't

2786
02:36:58,320 --> 02:37:00,360
Speaker 2: push him too much. Who knows what they'll do, right

2787
02:37:00,400 --> 02:37:02,760
Speaker 2: That was clearly what he wanted people to take from

2788
02:37:02,840 --> 02:37:05,240
Speaker 2: him bringing up the fact that Russia has a nuclear arsenal,

2789
02:37:05,680 --> 02:37:08,000
Speaker 2: and Harris didn't bring up like, yeah, you know, they

2790
02:37:08,040 --> 02:37:12,440
Speaker 2: invaded Russia a couple of weeks back, no nukes, Like

2791
02:37:12,959 --> 02:37:16,640
Speaker 2: this kind of threat is clearly something that the Putin

2792
02:37:16,680 --> 02:37:19,959
Speaker 2: regime wants the international community to have. But when push

2793
02:37:20,000 --> 02:37:23,400
Speaker 2: comes to shove, he's not suicidal. And the idea that

2794
02:37:23,560 --> 02:37:27,480
Speaker 2: like Putin is going to start nuking people if Ukraine

2795
02:37:27,600 --> 02:37:31,840
Speaker 2: is able to fire missiles at Russian fuel depots or whatever,

2796
02:37:32,440 --> 02:37:35,000
Speaker 2: I just don't think is supported by how he's actually

2797
02:37:35,080 --> 02:37:38,160
Speaker 2: performed so far. But at any rate, at least Ukraine

2798
02:37:38,280 --> 02:37:41,160
Speaker 2: got a decent amount of time. It was one of

2799
02:37:41,200 --> 02:37:43,760
Speaker 2: the things that they talked about more in this debate.

2800
02:37:44,200 --> 02:37:46,920
Speaker 2: Gaza got one very quick question. You could tell the

2801
02:37:47,000 --> 02:37:50,240
Speaker 2: moderators wanted to move the fuck past it as fast

2802
02:37:50,320 --> 02:37:53,680
Speaker 2: as possible, and both Trump and Harris wanted to get

2803
02:37:53,720 --> 02:37:55,600
Speaker 2: past it, Harris more so than Trump.

2804
02:37:55,760 --> 02:37:58,280
Speaker 15: Harris stayed about the same statement she made at the

2805
02:37:58,360 --> 02:38:02,760
Speaker 15: DNC YEP she first mentioned October seventh, talked about how

2806
02:38:02,760 --> 02:38:04,560
Speaker 15: far too many innocent Palestinians have been killed.

2807
02:38:04,760 --> 02:38:06,320
Speaker 13: The war must dan. We need a cease fire deal,

2808
02:38:06,360 --> 02:38:08,400
Speaker 13: the hostages out. We need to chart a course for

2809
02:38:08,440 --> 02:38:11,120
Speaker 13: a two state solution and rebuild Gaza. We will always

2810
02:38:11,120 --> 02:38:13,520
Speaker 13: give Israel the ability to defend itself, especially in relation

2811
02:38:13,560 --> 02:38:16,680
Speaker 13: to Iran. That was most of her statement, which is

2812
02:38:16,800 --> 02:38:19,480
Speaker 13: nothing new from her now. Trump first tried to skip

2813
02:38:19,520 --> 02:38:22,039
Speaker 13: the question and just immediately talking about Russia. He then

2814
02:38:22,120 --> 02:38:25,360
Speaker 13: said that Kamala hates Israel and she also hates the

2815
02:38:25,400 --> 02:38:26,160
Speaker 13: Arab people.

2816
02:38:26,600 --> 02:38:29,199
Speaker 3: The whole area will be bombed.

2817
02:38:28,840 --> 02:38:32,440
Speaker 13: Under her presidency, saying that if he gets elected as

2818
02:38:32,520 --> 02:38:35,240
Speaker 13: president elect, he will solve the war. And then he

2819
02:38:35,320 --> 02:38:37,400
Speaker 13: just talked about like how oil pipelines are important.

2820
02:38:37,920 --> 02:38:41,440
Speaker 2: It was so weird interesting to me that he tried

2821
02:38:41,520 --> 02:38:44,760
Speaker 2: to skip this when this is one of the things

2822
02:38:44,760 --> 02:38:47,520
Speaker 2: she's weakest on the things. But I think it may

2823
02:38:47,560 --> 02:38:51,680
Speaker 2: just be that, like Americans overwhelmingly at this point do

2824
02:38:51,800 --> 02:38:55,720
Speaker 2: not think Israel is categorically in the wrong. They think

2825
02:38:55,760 --> 02:38:59,600
Speaker 2: that Israel is often in the wrong in this war

2826
02:38:59,680 --> 02:39:02,160
Speaker 2: and been killing a lot of innocent people. And so

2827
02:39:02,320 --> 02:39:04,760
Speaker 2: it may just be that he knows that, Like this

2828
02:39:04,840 --> 02:39:07,280
Speaker 2: isn't really a great issue for me either, Let's move

2829
02:39:07,360 --> 02:39:10,000
Speaker 2: back to something. But it was it was interesting to

2830
02:39:10,120 --> 02:39:14,000
Speaker 2: me that he didn't have any kind of concerted attack,

2831
02:39:14,240 --> 02:39:17,840
Speaker 2: like saying she hates Israel and Arabs is such a

2832
02:39:18,040 --> 02:39:22,560
Speaker 2: strange tactic to take here, and I don't see how

2833
02:39:22,560 --> 02:39:23,880
Speaker 2: he thought it could help him.

2834
02:39:24,000 --> 02:39:25,480
Speaker 3: Who are you trying to appeal to.

2835
02:39:25,920 --> 02:39:28,600
Speaker 2: Right, How is this supposed to get you a vote?

2836
02:39:28,640 --> 02:39:31,039
Speaker 2: What vote does this get you that you don't have?

2837
02:39:31,240 --> 02:39:32,840
Speaker 15: There's just no way. That was like what was in

2838
02:39:32,879 --> 02:39:36,400
Speaker 15: his campaign prep. Yeah, that was not advice, There's no way.

2839
02:39:36,600 --> 02:39:38,840
Speaker 13: Yeah, Kamla did have a good line here to think

2840
02:39:38,879 --> 02:39:43,119
Speaker 13: points towards her like recording that sec people. She said,

2841
02:39:43,720 --> 02:39:45,560
Speaker 13: it's well known that Trump is a weak on foreign

2842
02:39:45,600 --> 02:39:50,240
Speaker 13: policy and national security. He's pro dictator. Yeah, yeah, Trump

2843
02:39:50,280 --> 02:39:52,320
Speaker 13: just doesn't have any way to answer that, because yeah,

2844
02:39:52,320 --> 02:39:54,440
Speaker 13: he does want to be a dictatory. He just he

2845
02:39:54,600 --> 02:39:58,199
Speaker 13: just offended the president of Hungary like a few minutes ago.

2846
02:39:58,760 --> 02:40:01,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, like called him as strong man and said that

2847
02:40:01,040 --> 02:40:02,040
Speaker 2: that means he's tough.

2848
02:40:02,360 --> 02:40:02,560
Speaker 3: Well.

2849
02:40:02,600 --> 02:40:04,800
Speaker 2: He also she had a good line about how like

2850
02:40:05,160 --> 02:40:07,199
Speaker 2: he's not going to be tough with these people, They're

2851
02:40:07,240 --> 02:40:09,240
Speaker 2: just going to like say something nice to him and

2852
02:40:09,240 --> 02:40:12,480
Speaker 2: then he'll immediately want to be their friends. Like, yeah,

2853
02:40:12,520 --> 02:40:15,320
Speaker 2: that was a decent little jab. She got a few

2854
02:40:15,320 --> 02:40:17,400
Speaker 2: of those in more than a few. I want to

2855
02:40:17,440 --> 02:40:19,520
Speaker 2: talk about since we're kind of running along just a

2856
02:40:19,520 --> 02:40:22,480
Speaker 2: little bit. At the endier after the debate ended, I

2857
02:40:22,560 --> 02:40:25,240
Speaker 2: caught this. I don't think you guys did, but Trump

2858
02:40:25,280 --> 02:40:29,240
Speaker 2: went down to what's called the no spin zone, which

2859
02:40:29,720 --> 02:40:31,760
Speaker 2: is just a thing Fox did. I I think it

2860
02:40:31,760 --> 02:40:32,840
Speaker 2: started on the Handity Show.

2861
02:40:32,959 --> 02:40:33,520
Speaker 3: I caught the.

2862
02:40:33,959 --> 02:40:37,080
Speaker 15: Fox immediate after the debate response, do you want me

2863
02:40:37,120 --> 02:40:39,960
Speaker 15: to get into that, it's just one quick thing?

2864
02:40:40,160 --> 02:40:40,520
Speaker 2: Sure?

2865
02:40:41,000 --> 02:40:44,520
Speaker 15: Yeah, So immediate response from Fox was Vice President Harris

2866
02:40:44,600 --> 02:40:47,200
Speaker 15: was clearly well prepared, but she was never held to

2867
02:40:47,240 --> 02:40:49,680
Speaker 15: the fire and felt like ABC was helping her out.

2868
02:40:50,360 --> 02:40:54,600
Speaker 15: He went down a few cat and cat and dog

2869
02:40:54,640 --> 02:40:59,800
Speaker 15: holes instead of rabbit holes and not rabbit holes. That

2870
02:41:00,160 --> 02:41:03,200
Speaker 15: a direct thing to the eating pets thing. Make no

2871
02:41:03,280 --> 02:41:05,760
Speaker 15: but snake about it. Trump had a bad night.

2872
02:41:06,160 --> 02:41:07,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting.

2873
02:41:07,959 --> 02:41:11,320
Speaker 15: Then just talked about how she was calm and prepared

2874
02:41:11,360 --> 02:41:13,959
Speaker 15: and whatnot. But then you know, Hannity came on and

2875
02:41:14,040 --> 02:41:16,600
Speaker 15: did his Hannity thing and then I'm.

2876
02:41:16,600 --> 02:41:17,400
Speaker 3: No spin zone.

2877
02:41:17,840 --> 02:41:20,080
Speaker 2: That must have been why Trump was heading down to

2878
02:41:20,120 --> 02:41:22,119
Speaker 2: the no spin zone. So what happened? You've got this.

2879
02:41:22,600 --> 02:41:24,800
Speaker 2: It's the floor of where they did the debate, so

2880
02:41:24,879 --> 02:41:28,320
Speaker 2: everyone is everywhere, tons of media and Trump. There's like

2881
02:41:28,360 --> 02:41:31,280
Speaker 2: this huge scrum around him and I'm watching on ABC

2882
02:41:31,560 --> 02:41:34,600
Speaker 2: and the ABC anchors just start screaming at him from

2883
02:41:34,640 --> 02:41:38,160
Speaker 2: like Donald Donald, mister President, trying to get him to

2884
02:41:38,200 --> 02:41:41,039
Speaker 2: answer their questions and like everyone is doing this, and

2885
02:41:41,080 --> 02:41:44,400
Speaker 2: he eventually like gives a statement where he says, well,

2886
02:41:44,400 --> 02:41:46,560
Speaker 2: this was my favorite debate. This was like the best

2887
02:41:46,600 --> 02:41:50,280
Speaker 2: debate I've ever had. I clearly won. Someone was like,

2888
02:41:50,320 --> 02:41:52,280
Speaker 2: so are you going to do a second debate? Harris says,

2889
02:41:52,280 --> 02:41:54,080
Speaker 2: she wants another debate, and he's like, well, she just

2890
02:41:54,080 --> 02:41:56,200
Speaker 2: wants another debate because she lost, So I don't know

2891
02:41:56,200 --> 02:41:58,680
Speaker 2: if I'm going to do another debate. I found that

2892
02:41:58,920 --> 02:42:01,560
Speaker 2: very funny. I found it kind of shameful how the

2893
02:42:01,600 --> 02:42:04,520
Speaker 2: ABC guys just kept howling at him to give them

2894
02:42:04,560 --> 02:42:06,800
Speaker 2: some attention in the middle of this very crowded room.

2895
02:42:06,840 --> 02:42:08,320
Speaker 2: There was no way he could hear you. He's an

2896
02:42:08,360 --> 02:42:12,119
Speaker 2: old man. Guys have some self fucking respect. You're supposed

2897
02:42:12,120 --> 02:42:15,280
Speaker 2: to be journalists, and you had a colleague down there

2898
02:42:15,280 --> 02:42:18,560
Speaker 2: who was actually asking him questions. But anyway, yeah, so yeah,

2899
02:42:18,640 --> 02:42:21,720
Speaker 2: I mean, there wasn't a ton there other than him

2900
02:42:21,879 --> 02:42:24,400
Speaker 2: kind of desperately trying. And one of them did make

2901
02:42:24,400 --> 02:42:27,200
Speaker 2: the good point that, like he is claiming, I obviously

2902
02:42:27,280 --> 02:42:29,640
Speaker 2: won the debate, as he heads down to the spin

2903
02:42:29,760 --> 02:42:33,040
Speaker 2: zone spin his loss, which is like, yeah, it's not

2904
02:42:33,640 --> 02:42:35,879
Speaker 2: a position of strength. No, I don't know that you

2905
02:42:35,920 --> 02:42:37,840
Speaker 2: would have been doing this if this had been a

2906
02:42:37,920 --> 02:42:41,440
Speaker 2: clean win, but it certainly wasn't and yeah, like I

2907
02:42:41,959 --> 02:42:44,720
Speaker 2: think tonight went pretty badly for him.

2908
02:42:44,840 --> 02:42:48,600
Speaker 15: Yeah, yeah, CNN was like foaming at the mouth happy

2909
02:42:48,680 --> 02:42:53,000
Speaker 15: or sad a CNN was thrill, They're foaming at the

2910
02:42:53,040 --> 02:42:55,840
Speaker 15: mouth for Kamala Harris that nobody else has done what

2911
02:42:55,920 --> 02:42:59,240
Speaker 15: she's been able to do. And then something else happened

2912
02:42:59,680 --> 02:43:05,320
Speaker 15: that made CNN and MSNBC thrilled and ruined one Trump

2913
02:43:05,360 --> 02:43:09,360
Speaker 15: advisor's day. I'm sure Taylor Swift endorsed Kamala Harris for

2914
02:43:09,400 --> 02:43:13,039
Speaker 15: president right after the debate, And if only we could

2915
02:43:13,080 --> 02:43:16,760
Speaker 15: have seen that Trump advisor whispered in his ear that

2916
02:43:16,840 --> 02:43:21,199
Speaker 15: he did not, in fact, despite that AI fake endorsement,

2917
02:43:21,879 --> 02:43:25,720
Speaker 15: get endorsed by childless cat lady Taylor Swift.

2918
02:43:26,320 --> 02:43:32,520
Speaker 2: That's so interesting to me that she couched her endorsement

2919
02:43:32,640 --> 02:43:35,440
Speaker 2: in I am doing this because of the AI that

2920
02:43:35,640 --> 02:43:37,720
Speaker 2: Trump kept retweeting.

2921
02:43:37,640 --> 02:43:40,440
Speaker 13: Yeah, retruthing, sorry, retruthing.

2922
02:43:40,400 --> 02:43:43,200
Speaker 2: Retruthing, Yes, you're right, I apologize. I didn't mean to.

2923
02:43:43,760 --> 02:43:46,000
Speaker 2: I'm not going to make that joke anyway, Garrison, what

2924
02:43:46,040 --> 02:43:46,840
Speaker 2: were you going to say?

2925
02:43:47,840 --> 02:43:50,920
Speaker 13: Just that that's all just retruth thing.

2926
02:43:51,400 --> 02:43:54,080
Speaker 2: It's interesting to me that she she did specifically like

2927
02:43:54,240 --> 02:43:56,560
Speaker 2: couch it and like is it's because of what he

2928
02:43:56,600 --> 02:43:59,280
Speaker 2: did with this AI video like that, I felt like

2929
02:43:59,320 --> 02:44:00,800
Speaker 2: I had a need to come out and say who

2930
02:44:00,840 --> 02:44:01,520
Speaker 2: I'm voting for.

2931
02:44:01,840 --> 02:44:02,160
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2932
02:44:02,320 --> 02:44:04,640
Speaker 2: Also, she has a cute cat. I hadn't seen her

2933
02:44:04,680 --> 02:44:05,119
Speaker 2: cat before.

2934
02:44:05,280 --> 02:44:06,240
Speaker 3: It's also that.

2935
02:44:06,480 --> 02:44:09,640
Speaker 15: But because I pay attention to Taylor Swift News, she

2936
02:44:09,760 --> 02:44:11,760
Speaker 15: was getting hammered a little bit in the last week

2937
02:44:11,840 --> 02:44:15,440
Speaker 15: because one of her good friends, Brittany Mahomes, who's the

2938
02:44:15,440 --> 02:44:19,000
Speaker 15: wife of Patrick Mahomes, who is Taylor Shift's boyfriends Travis

2939
02:44:19,040 --> 02:44:23,480
Speaker 15: Kelsey's teammate Jesus Christ You're welcome, has liked several of

2940
02:44:23,520 --> 02:44:28,879
Speaker 15: Trump's posts and uh truth truths. No, I don't know where.

2941
02:44:28,680 --> 02:44:29,200
Speaker 3: It was to be.

2942
02:44:29,360 --> 02:44:31,000
Speaker 15: I think it was actually think I don't I actually

2943
02:44:31,040 --> 02:44:31,520
Speaker 15: don't think.

2944
02:44:31,360 --> 02:44:32,359
Speaker 3: It was his posts.

2945
02:44:32,520 --> 02:44:34,400
Speaker 15: I think it was your post about him pro Trump

2946
02:44:34,480 --> 02:44:38,280
Speaker 15: post on Instagram very important to this election. Yes, and

2947
02:44:38,720 --> 02:44:40,920
Speaker 15: then and then they were seen together at the US

2948
02:44:41,040 --> 02:44:43,879
Speaker 15: Open and and the Girl Bosses were very unhappy with

2949
02:44:44,000 --> 02:44:46,959
Speaker 15: Taylor about this, and so so I think that also

2950
02:44:47,360 --> 02:44:49,560
Speaker 15: played into the timing. Robert, just so you know know,

2951
02:44:49,640 --> 02:44:51,560
Speaker 15: you're Taylor Swift. Facts by Sophie Lickterman.

2952
02:44:51,800 --> 02:44:55,000
Speaker 2: Sorry Sophie, well you were talking about washed up musician

2953
02:44:55,040 --> 02:44:59,320
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift Live.

2954
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:02,160
Speaker 13: You are going to get ones are going to get

2955
02:45:02,200 --> 02:45:02,840
Speaker 13: on our ass.

2956
02:45:02,920 --> 02:45:04,320
Speaker 3: They will get our show canceled.

2957
02:45:04,440 --> 02:45:07,360
Speaker 15: Robert Evans, we are not in that era. I was

2958
02:45:07,400 --> 02:45:08,080
Speaker 15: getting in that.

2959
02:45:08,200 --> 02:45:14,879
Speaker 2: I was getting crucial debate take from America's most influential celebrity,

2960
02:45:15,560 --> 02:45:17,480
Speaker 2: Gilbert artist, Scott Adams.

2961
02:45:17,560 --> 02:45:18,200
Speaker 3: What do you think?

2962
02:45:18,440 --> 02:45:21,640
Speaker 2: No, the debate is a tie so far with lots

2963
02:45:21,640 --> 02:45:24,760
Speaker 2: of folks is flying a tie? Is a win for Harris?

2964
02:45:25,800 --> 02:45:27,720
Speaker 3: Well, that's true. I think that is true.

2965
02:45:28,200 --> 02:45:30,560
Speaker 2: There you go, Scott, good work.

2966
02:45:30,920 --> 02:45:33,560
Speaker 13: Scott comes out saying that Harris won the debate.

2967
02:45:33,600 --> 02:45:35,920
Speaker 3: There you go. That's great.

2968
02:45:36,120 --> 02:45:38,640
Speaker 13: Finally, I do I do think it's funny that Trump

2969
02:45:38,720 --> 02:45:41,640
Speaker 13: claimed that he didn't know about his previous comments questioning

2970
02:45:41,680 --> 02:45:42,920
Speaker 13: if Kamala Harris was black.

2971
02:45:43,200 --> 02:45:44,440
Speaker 3: That was a very.

2972
02:45:45,520 --> 02:45:48,400
Speaker 2: Talk about that moment. Oh, were you accused her of

2973
02:45:48,440 --> 02:45:50,400
Speaker 2: putting out too?

2974
02:45:50,160 --> 02:45:51,960
Speaker 3: What was that to talk?

2975
02:45:52,440 --> 02:45:55,720
Speaker 13: He was also like saying, well, the Central Park five

2976
02:45:56,040 --> 02:45:58,160
Speaker 13: pled guilty, So actually I think it was okay. I

2977
02:45:58,200 --> 02:46:02,679
Speaker 13: wanted them executed a wild, a wild.

2978
02:46:02,440 --> 02:46:03,520
Speaker 3: Unforced error there.

2979
02:46:03,720 --> 02:46:04,199
Speaker 2: Man.

2980
02:46:04,800 --> 02:46:07,520
Speaker 13: That whole little racism section was just crazy.

2981
02:46:08,080 --> 02:46:10,360
Speaker 2: Look, I will take one quick victory lap because I

2982
02:46:10,400 --> 02:46:14,000
Speaker 2: said after the last debate, which was a disaster in

2983
02:46:14,080 --> 02:46:17,959
Speaker 2: every possible way for Biden. Trump's not his soul self either.

2984
02:46:18,080 --> 02:46:20,720
Speaker 2: He is definitely an older man. Yeah, he was in

2985
02:46:20,800 --> 02:46:24,240
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen and even twenty twenty, and like, yeah, this

2986
02:46:24,800 --> 02:46:25,000
Speaker 2: was that.

2987
02:46:26,240 --> 02:46:28,840
Speaker 13: Well, hopefully this was the only presidential debate that we'll

2988
02:46:28,879 --> 02:46:31,200
Speaker 13: have to talk about with Kamala v.

2989
02:46:31,240 --> 02:46:33,160
Speaker 3: Trump. What an exciting time.

2990
02:46:33,280 --> 02:46:36,800
Speaker 13: I'm excited for that, for that Vance Walls debate, if

2991
02:46:36,840 --> 02:46:37,640
Speaker 13: that ever happens.

2992
02:46:37,680 --> 02:46:38,160
Speaker 2: So am I.

2993
02:46:38,760 --> 02:46:43,800
Speaker 15: Oh interesting that Like our reaction after this debate was like, Okay,

2994
02:46:44,720 --> 02:46:47,120
Speaker 15: she shouldn't do any other debates and he's going to

2995
02:46:47,200 --> 02:46:48,920
Speaker 15: want to do more debates. Yeah, And it was the

2996
02:46:49,000 --> 02:46:51,200
Speaker 15: exact opposite in their in their reactions.

2997
02:46:51,320 --> 02:46:54,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was interested by that, which.

2998
02:46:53,879 --> 02:46:57,400
Speaker 15: Like on MSNBC Tim Walls was like she should do

2999
02:46:57,440 --> 02:47:00,640
Speaker 15: one every day. I mean, she did good, she did well,

3000
02:47:00,640 --> 02:47:03,520
Speaker 15: But like my reaction was like, Okay, you did the job.

3001
02:47:03,680 --> 02:47:04,360
Speaker 3: You did the job.

3002
02:47:05,000 --> 02:47:07,400
Speaker 2: I do think like I have like, oh boys, I

3003
02:47:07,480 --> 02:47:10,039
Speaker 2: think this might be Hubris coming in here and a

3004
02:47:10,080 --> 02:47:12,960
Speaker 2: bad idea, but she could be right. I don't know.

3005
02:47:13,360 --> 02:47:13,720
Speaker 10: Yeah.

3006
02:47:13,879 --> 02:47:17,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like one of the problems is that if the

3007
02:47:17,520 --> 02:47:21,240
Speaker 2: election doesn't turn around as much or if something else

3008
02:47:21,320 --> 02:47:25,199
Speaker 2: happens that pushes momentum back towards Trump, she might need

3009
02:47:25,280 --> 02:47:27,480
Speaker 2: a third debate and you kind of have to You

3010
02:47:27,600 --> 02:47:30,320
Speaker 2: kind of can't know, like you are rolling the dice

3011
02:47:30,360 --> 02:47:31,440
Speaker 2: on this one way or the other.

3012
02:47:31,640 --> 02:47:35,680
Speaker 13: Yeah, well that was the best debate I've ever watched. Yeah,

3013
02:47:35,720 --> 02:47:37,560
Speaker 13: just in terms of it actually being a debate. Yeah,

3014
02:47:37,600 --> 02:47:39,400
Speaker 13: there was not a half dead man on screen, or

3015
02:47:39,600 --> 02:47:42,640
Speaker 13: yeah maybe there was that, there just wasn't two half

3016
02:47:42,680 --> 02:47:45,600
Speaker 13: dead men on screen, so you just.

3017
02:47:45,600 --> 02:47:48,160
Speaker 2: Get a good look at like, Okay, yeah, these are

3018
02:47:48,240 --> 02:47:52,240
Speaker 2: these are pretty decent pictures of the kinds of president

3019
02:47:52,520 --> 02:47:53,720
Speaker 2: that these people want to be.

3020
02:47:54,040 --> 02:47:57,320
Speaker 15: And like it literally comes down to he was not

3021
02:47:57,480 --> 02:48:00,600
Speaker 15: willing to shake her hand, and she walked across the

3022
02:48:00,600 --> 02:48:03,360
Speaker 15: stage to shake his hand, and that's basically what the

3023
02:48:03,400 --> 02:48:04,000
Speaker 15: debate was.

3024
02:48:04,640 --> 02:48:05,519
Speaker 2: Yeah.

3025
02:48:05,560 --> 02:48:09,240
Speaker 15: Anyway, anyways, this has been it could happen here. We're

3026
02:48:09,240 --> 02:48:12,039
Speaker 15: gonna post our source links from this episode in the

3027
02:48:12,080 --> 02:48:14,360
Speaker 15: episode description, so look out for that.

3028
02:48:15,040 --> 02:48:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, and you know, until next time. I

3029
02:48:20,080 --> 02:48:21,199
Speaker 2: don't really have any advice.

3030
02:48:21,840 --> 02:48:43,560
Speaker 10: Bye, Hi everyone, it's me James. This is a pick up.

3031
02:48:43,879 --> 02:48:46,640
Speaker 10: It's Thursday Morning. I recorded with Joseph on Wednesday night,

3032
02:48:47,680 --> 02:48:52,480
Speaker 10: someone destroyed or removed one of our coolers. Since then,

3033
02:48:53,040 --> 02:48:55,200
Speaker 10: I've received photos this morning of a place where we

3034
02:48:55,200 --> 02:48:57,680
Speaker 10: put it and it's gone. You can probably joy your

3035
02:48:57,680 --> 02:49:00,520
Speaker 10: own conclusions to how I feel about that probably tell

3036
02:49:00,560 --> 02:49:03,600
Speaker 10: from how I'm talking to it. I'm pretty pissed off. Also,

3037
02:49:03,640 --> 02:49:06,600
Speaker 10: our friend Rafael, Rafael from Los Angeles de la Desierto

3038
02:49:07,160 --> 02:49:10,040
Speaker 10: is without a vehicle at the moment. His truck broke.

3039
02:49:10,640 --> 02:49:13,000
Speaker 10: This is a person who gives every ounce of his

3040
02:49:13,120 --> 02:49:16,760
Speaker 10: being to rescuing migrants. He is there with them in

3041
02:49:16,800 --> 02:49:20,400
Speaker 10: their hardest times. When they pass away, he's there to

3042
02:49:20,560 --> 02:49:24,600
Speaker 10: recover their remains with dignity, to connect their families with

3043
02:49:25,000 --> 02:49:27,480
Speaker 10: the passing moments of their loved ones. He's there to

3044
02:49:27,520 --> 02:49:30,120
Speaker 10: rescue people. He rescued a woman and child on Monday.

3045
02:49:30,440 --> 02:49:34,000
Speaker 10: His truck's broken, and if you're able to give, I'm

3046
02:49:34,000 --> 02:49:35,520
Speaker 10: going to include a link in the show notes. I

3047
02:49:35,520 --> 02:49:37,720
Speaker 10: talk to Borderlands Relief Collective and we all agree that

3048
02:49:37,760 --> 02:49:39,959
Speaker 10: the most important thing right now is to get money

3049
02:49:39,959 --> 02:49:42,520
Speaker 10: to Raphael so he can continue doing that life saving

3050
02:49:42,760 --> 02:49:45,640
Speaker 10: search and rescue work as we hit record temperatures here

3051
02:49:46,760 --> 02:49:48,760
Speaker 10: and before it gets freezing cold in the winters. So

3052
02:49:49,000 --> 02:49:52,640
Speaker 10: if you can, please, please just a few bucks, like

3053
02:49:53,160 --> 02:49:55,959
Speaker 10: we'll buy them an old track. I'll fix it. I

3054
02:49:56,200 --> 02:49:59,160
Speaker 10: just don't want more people to die out there, and

3055
02:49:59,240 --> 02:50:03,240
Speaker 10: I think having a truck for Rafael would meaningfully make

3056
02:50:03,280 --> 02:50:05,640
Speaker 10: it safer for people. So if you're able to give,

3057
02:50:05,720 --> 02:50:09,680
Speaker 10: please give. Otherwise, please enjoy this podcast. And yeah, I

3058
02:50:09,720 --> 02:50:12,280
Speaker 10: understand if you can't. It's a hard time for everyone.

3059
02:50:12,360 --> 02:50:16,320
Speaker 10: But yeah, either way, hope if you can enjoy this podcast. Bye,

3060
02:50:18,959 --> 02:50:22,360
Speaker 10: Hi everyone, and welcome to the podcast today. It's me

3061
02:50:22,600 --> 02:50:26,080
Speaker 10: James and I'm joined by Joseph Hauser, who's a volunteer

3062
02:50:26,080 --> 02:50:30,000
Speaker 10: from Bordlands Relief Collective who was out with me on Sunday.

3063
02:50:30,360 --> 02:50:33,120
Speaker 10: We're recording this on Wednesday night and we were dropping

3064
02:50:33,120 --> 02:50:35,320
Speaker 10: water at the border. We wanted to describe for you

3065
02:50:35,360 --> 02:50:37,640
Speaker 10: a little bit of our what we saw at there.

3066
02:50:37,760 --> 02:50:41,360
Speaker 10: It was very hot, things were in a bad way.

3067
02:50:41,400 --> 02:50:43,160
Speaker 10: I think it's fair to say like despite all of

3068
02:50:43,160 --> 02:50:45,480
Speaker 10: our best efforts, things were really difficult there. There's only

3069
02:50:46,120 --> 02:50:47,760
Speaker 10: so much we can do when it's one hundred and

3070
02:50:47,840 --> 02:50:50,160
Speaker 10: five degrees and there are dozens of people and we're

3071
02:50:50,160 --> 02:50:52,039
Speaker 10: trying to get water to all of them. So welcome

3072
02:50:52,040 --> 02:50:52,480
Speaker 10: to the show.

3073
02:50:52,680 --> 02:50:54,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, James, thanks for having me on.

3074
02:50:55,160 --> 02:50:58,640
Speaker 10: No, I appreciate you being gay. So I think if

3075
02:50:58,680 --> 02:51:03,800
Speaker 10: we begin by like describing preps for people, and we

3076
02:51:03,879 --> 02:51:07,840
Speaker 10: first started messaging by going out on Sunday, like Saturday afternoon, right,

3077
02:51:07,959 --> 02:51:08,640
Speaker 10: I think.

3078
02:51:08,920 --> 02:51:12,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, it was yeah, early Saturday afternoon. I had

3079
02:51:12,920 --> 02:51:15,440
Speaker 4: just finished getting my haircut, I'd gone and grabbed an

3080
02:51:15,440 --> 02:51:18,720
Speaker 4: early lunch, and I saw a message from you and

3081
02:51:18,800 --> 02:51:21,640
Speaker 4: one of our group chats that some of the local

3082
02:51:21,640 --> 02:51:26,640
Speaker 4: grocery stores were selling those big orange five gallon water

3083
02:51:26,720 --> 02:51:30,560
Speaker 4: jugs for like thirteen dollars, Like apparently they're trying to

3084
02:51:30,560 --> 02:51:32,600
Speaker 4: like get rid of their stock or something. So yeah,

3085
02:51:32,800 --> 02:51:34,680
Speaker 4: you and me a couple of other people were scrambling

3086
02:51:34,720 --> 02:51:37,240
Speaker 4: around the county trying to buy up as many of

3087
02:51:37,280 --> 02:51:37,960
Speaker 4: them as we could.

3088
02:51:38,360 --> 02:51:40,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, like I think I was a normally one hundred

3089
02:51:40,560 --> 02:51:44,680
Speaker 10: bucks for reference. They're like an insulated water vessel with

3090
02:51:44,800 --> 02:51:47,920
Speaker 10: a spout on the bottom. And given that we knew

3091
02:51:47,959 --> 02:51:49,440
Speaker 10: it was going to be a record temperature and it

3092
02:51:49,440 --> 02:51:51,440
Speaker 10: was already really hot on Saturday, we wanted to try

3093
02:51:51,480 --> 02:51:54,320
Speaker 10: and get folks water that was as cold as possible.

3094
02:51:54,520 --> 02:51:57,320
Speaker 10: So yeah, we went all around, bought all the all

3095
02:51:57,320 --> 02:51:59,280
Speaker 10: the ones from that chain of grocery stores that we could,

3096
02:51:59,800 --> 02:52:03,600
Speaker 10: and that sort of corralled them, and then we put

3097
02:52:03,640 --> 02:52:06,520
Speaker 10: ice in them. Right, this is the next day on Sunday,

3098
02:52:06,600 --> 02:52:08,920
Speaker 10: and then you and I met up and we went out.

3099
02:52:09,080 --> 02:52:10,560
Speaker 10: Do you want to just give people a sense of

3100
02:52:10,800 --> 02:52:12,959
Speaker 10: the people we met right from all over the world,

3101
02:52:13,520 --> 02:52:15,480
Speaker 10: the different places we met them, and then then the

3102
02:52:15,520 --> 02:52:17,040
Speaker 10: sort of condition that we found them in.

3103
02:52:17,320 --> 02:52:17,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3104
02:52:17,680 --> 02:52:21,240
Speaker 4: So the first group of people we met, we ran

3105
02:52:21,320 --> 02:52:25,640
Speaker 4: into four Mauritanian men. Yeah, they seemed to be in

3106
02:52:25,680 --> 02:52:28,959
Speaker 4: pretty good spirits. They were all traveling together. Gave them

3107
02:52:29,680 --> 02:52:33,280
Speaker 4: some food, gatorade, water, kind of our typical stuff that.

3108
02:52:33,240 --> 02:52:33,840
Speaker 1: We hand out.

3109
02:52:34,120 --> 02:52:38,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I don't know, maybe three minutes down the

3110
02:52:38,400 --> 02:52:41,640
Speaker 4: road from there. I don't know where the man was from,

3111
02:52:42,320 --> 02:52:45,360
Speaker 4: but is Asian man that did not look to be

3112
02:52:45,400 --> 02:52:46,040
Speaker 4: in great shape.

3113
02:52:46,080 --> 02:52:49,040
Speaker 1: His clothes was torn up, his face was really dirty.

3114
02:52:50,800 --> 02:52:53,840
Speaker 4: From what we could understand, he was saying he had

3115
02:52:53,840 --> 02:52:56,920
Speaker 4: been mugged, his cell phone had been stolen from him.

3116
02:52:57,200 --> 02:53:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he just looked in a bad ways.

3117
02:53:00,600 --> 02:53:04,240
Speaker 4: So we, yeah, you know, gave him water, gave him

3118
02:53:04,280 --> 02:53:08,280
Speaker 4: again some gatorade, and when we tried to give him

3119
02:53:08,320 --> 02:53:11,359
Speaker 4: some food, he was just like I can't like, I'm

3120
02:53:12,160 --> 02:53:14,000
Speaker 4: so like, he's just so dehydrated.

3121
02:53:14,040 --> 02:53:16,840
Speaker 1: He he couldn't stomach anything other than liquid.

3122
02:53:17,200 --> 02:53:19,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, it was like we see people all the time

3123
02:53:19,840 --> 02:53:22,680
Speaker 10: who were in a bad state, but it's pretty rare

3124
02:53:22,680 --> 02:53:25,959
Speaker 10: for people to be like I can't eat, I'm too dehydrated.

3125
02:53:26,000 --> 02:53:28,640
Speaker 10: I can't face food right now. Because he'd been walking

3126
02:53:29,520 --> 02:53:33,880
Speaker 10: for at least seven eight hours, I'm guessing, if not days, Yeah,

3127
02:53:34,000 --> 02:53:37,080
Speaker 10: depends how he came man, because we were just driving

3128
02:53:37,080 --> 02:53:39,200
Speaker 10: along and he came out of the verge like with

3129
02:53:39,320 --> 02:53:42,440
Speaker 10: his hands in the air, like looking just so afraid,

3130
02:53:42,480 --> 02:53:45,160
Speaker 10: like they'll stay with me for a while, like absolute

3131
02:53:45,400 --> 02:53:46,160
Speaker 10: like fear.

3132
02:53:46,240 --> 02:53:48,760
Speaker 1: But he had yeah, like he just looked stricken.

3133
02:53:49,280 --> 02:53:54,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, like just really it's just so sad to

3134
02:53:54,959 --> 02:53:57,160
Speaker 10: see someone like reduced to that. I'm glad we were

3135
02:53:57,160 --> 02:54:00,640
Speaker 10: able to help him and get him the stuff that

3136
02:54:00,640 --> 02:54:05,440
Speaker 10: he needed. And then from there we moved on to

3137
02:54:05,800 --> 02:54:07,560
Speaker 10: I'm trying to think where we went next. We went

3138
02:54:07,600 --> 02:54:09,920
Speaker 10: up to the top, right, we grave up to the

3139
02:54:09,959 --> 02:54:10,600
Speaker 10: top of them out too.

3140
02:54:10,879 --> 02:54:13,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, we went up to an area where Borderlands Relief

3141
02:54:13,720 --> 02:54:16,600
Speaker 4: Collective has set up what we call a welcome station.

3142
02:54:17,240 --> 02:54:20,520
Speaker 4: It's up on top of one of the smaller peaks

3143
02:54:20,720 --> 02:54:23,120
Speaker 4: in the area. It gives us a good view, like

3144
02:54:23,160 --> 02:54:24,800
Speaker 4: you can see all the way down to the actual

3145
02:54:24,840 --> 02:54:27,840
Speaker 4: border and stuff and kind of take note of like, okay,

3146
02:54:27,879 --> 02:54:30,240
Speaker 4: like we've got a group coming up here.

3147
02:54:30,320 --> 02:54:32,120
Speaker 1: There's some people crossing over there.

3148
02:54:32,320 --> 02:54:36,039
Speaker 4: And then we've primarily done that in the winter time,

3149
02:54:36,480 --> 02:54:38,720
Speaker 4: just to greet people with some like some hot teas,

3150
02:54:38,879 --> 02:54:42,440
Speaker 4: some water food, just basically things to say like hey,

3151
02:54:42,480 --> 02:54:45,360
Speaker 4: like you know you're here, yeah, and at least give

3152
02:54:45,400 --> 02:54:48,320
Speaker 4: them a friendly face, because who knows what they've you know,

3153
02:54:48,400 --> 02:54:51,120
Speaker 4: what everyone's been through just to get to that point.

3154
02:54:51,400 --> 02:54:54,720
Speaker 4: But yeah, so we dropped one of our water jugs

3155
02:54:54,760 --> 02:54:57,000
Speaker 4: there and then went a little bit further down the

3156
02:54:57,080 --> 02:55:01,440
Speaker 4: road to a gate that I think Border Patrol maintains

3157
02:55:01,480 --> 02:55:05,280
Speaker 4: that gate maybe cal Fire yeah as well, they keep

3158
02:55:05,320 --> 02:55:09,160
Speaker 4: that locked pretty much always. But we know people take

3159
02:55:09,160 --> 02:55:12,080
Speaker 4: that road up obviously, So we left one of the

3160
02:55:12,160 --> 02:55:15,360
Speaker 4: smaller water jugs we were able to pick up. I

3161
02:55:15,440 --> 02:55:17,080
Speaker 4: think that one was like a two or three gallon

3162
02:55:17,560 --> 02:55:18,840
Speaker 4: that we left there.

3163
02:55:18,879 --> 02:55:21,360
Speaker 10: Right, Yeah, because people people walk up for the border.

3164
02:55:21,400 --> 02:55:24,760
Speaker 10: I always like that spot. It's weird because sometimes you

3165
02:55:24,800 --> 02:55:26,760
Speaker 10: see people in your they've got a long walk and

3166
02:55:26,800 --> 02:55:28,640
Speaker 10: it's hot and I'm up here and there down there

3167
02:55:28,640 --> 02:55:32,000
Speaker 10: and that that sucks. Yeah, sometimes it's a really if

3168
02:55:32,000 --> 02:55:33,600
Speaker 10: it was anywhere else, it would be a beautiful view.

3169
02:55:33,640 --> 02:55:36,280
Speaker 10: There's a valley below with little oak grove and like

3170
02:55:36,840 --> 02:55:39,400
Speaker 10: sometimes you'll see like a red tailed hawk or something

3171
02:55:39,440 --> 02:55:41,119
Speaker 10: and it'll be like level with your eye line because

3172
02:55:41,120 --> 02:55:44,240
Speaker 10: you're at the top there and it's but unfortunately, yeah,

3173
02:55:44,240 --> 02:55:47,520
Speaker 10: it's at the border, so people have to suffer miserably there.

3174
02:55:47,680 --> 02:55:51,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's absolutely gorgeous like natural landscape, but it is

3175
02:55:51,440 --> 02:55:54,199
Speaker 4: like just so unbelievably deadly and unforgiving.

3176
02:55:54,879 --> 02:55:59,240
Speaker 10: Yeah, Like you and I have both hiked lick alongside

3177
02:55:59,320 --> 02:56:01,039
Speaker 10: hiking up and down the roads. We've hiked on the

3178
02:56:01,080 --> 02:56:03,320
Speaker 10: trails and migrants often take. And I've hiked a lot,

3179
02:56:03,480 --> 02:56:08,080
Speaker 10: You've hiked a lot. It's incredibly difficult going. It's difficult

3180
02:56:08,120 --> 02:56:10,840
Speaker 10: for us as like fit people with technical apparel and

3181
02:56:10,879 --> 02:56:13,920
Speaker 10: good shoes, like we often see people in flip flops

3182
02:56:14,040 --> 02:56:17,119
Speaker 10: or like crappy sneakers if.

3183
02:56:17,000 --> 02:56:19,360
Speaker 1: They have footwear at all at that point.

3184
02:56:19,640 --> 02:56:21,960
Speaker 10: Yeah, I remember a number of the people we ran

3185
02:56:22,000 --> 02:56:25,240
Speaker 10: into didn't have shoes like later in the day. Yeah,

3186
02:56:25,400 --> 02:56:27,320
Speaker 10: and I've definitely given away shoes before and then we

3187
02:56:27,360 --> 02:56:29,560
Speaker 10: have some of my drug. But I'm a giant person.

3188
02:56:30,120 --> 02:56:35,400
Speaker 10: Everyone it's like penguin flip of feet, so I wasn't

3189
02:56:35,400 --> 02:56:38,920
Speaker 10: able to help everyone. And so yeah, we went from there,

3190
02:56:38,959 --> 02:56:41,440
Speaker 10: we dropped another We hiked to water in a little

3191
02:56:41,480 --> 02:56:43,680
Speaker 10: bit because the road was too narrow to turn the

3192
02:56:43,680 --> 02:56:47,640
Speaker 10: truck around, and we dropped that in another gate. And

3193
02:56:47,680 --> 02:56:50,920
Speaker 10: then I think at that point things were pretty normal,

3194
02:56:51,160 --> 02:56:55,080
Speaker 10: and that was like a normal water drop day, or

3195
02:56:55,400 --> 02:56:58,000
Speaker 10: a driving water drop day, I should say, not a

3196
02:56:58,040 --> 02:57:00,480
Speaker 10: hiking one. Do you want to describe what we saw

3197
02:57:00,480 --> 02:57:02,000
Speaker 10: at the next place you went to, because I think

3198
02:57:02,040 --> 02:57:05,680
Speaker 10: that was when both of us realized that like things

3199
02:57:05,680 --> 02:57:07,680
Speaker 10: were going to be worse in normal and people needed

3200
02:57:07,680 --> 02:57:09,480
Speaker 10: as much help as we could possibly get in.

3201
02:57:09,720 --> 02:57:12,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically, once we finished up in that.

3202
02:57:12,480 --> 02:57:15,800
Speaker 4: Area, we went from where we were, we went a

3203
02:57:15,840 --> 02:57:18,080
Speaker 4: little bit further south. I don't know, I was like

3204
02:57:18,120 --> 02:57:20,280
Speaker 4: maybe a ten minute drive, you think.

3205
02:57:20,320 --> 02:57:22,720
Speaker 1: Once we got back to the main road, yeah, we

3206
02:57:22,840 --> 02:57:26,920
Speaker 1: ran into a group of three men.

3207
02:57:27,800 --> 02:57:32,480
Speaker 4: Believe they were more Aitanian again, a different group of men. Yeah,

3208
02:57:32,520 --> 02:57:34,199
Speaker 4: when we came across them, they were kind of walking

3209
02:57:34,400 --> 02:57:38,440
Speaker 4: almost like just middle of the lane on the road. Yeah, yeah,

3210
02:57:38,480 --> 02:57:40,600
Speaker 4: which was kind of like keyed us in that, like, oh,

3211
02:57:40,640 --> 02:57:42,720
Speaker 4: like we should stop and check on these guys.

3212
02:57:43,400 --> 02:57:47,640
Speaker 1: They overall seemed to be doing pretty well, Like.

3213
02:57:47,560 --> 02:57:50,920
Speaker 4: They were obviously very tired exhausted from their journey, but

3214
02:57:51,480 --> 02:57:54,400
Speaker 4: they were telling us that, you know, like oh we've

3215
02:57:54,400 --> 02:57:57,240
Speaker 4: got another two, We've got two more they fell behind.

3216
02:57:58,160 --> 02:58:00,760
Speaker 4: So we gave these guys you know again the normal

3217
02:58:00,800 --> 02:58:04,000
Speaker 4: like food, gatorade, water, checked in with them to see

3218
02:58:04,000 --> 02:58:06,520
Speaker 4: if they had like any wounds or anything we could treat,

3219
02:58:06,720 --> 02:58:10,880
Speaker 4: and they seemed pretty good. So we hung out in

3220
02:58:10,920 --> 02:58:14,080
Speaker 4: that area for I don't know, it was maybe five

3221
02:58:14,480 --> 02:58:18,440
Speaker 4: ten minutes max. Before we saw the people that they

3222
02:58:18,480 --> 02:58:21,960
Speaker 4: had mentioned were further down the road. So another two

3223
02:58:21,959 --> 02:58:26,160
Speaker 4: guys came up. We again gave them what supplies they

3224
02:58:26,160 --> 02:58:29,160
Speaker 4: seemed like they needed. The The fifth guy in that

3225
02:58:29,200 --> 02:58:32,360
Speaker 4: group seemed to be in the worst shape of all

3226
02:58:32,400 --> 02:58:35,680
Speaker 4: of them. Yeah, he was upright and you know, like

3227
02:58:35,760 --> 02:58:38,600
Speaker 4: moving under his own power, but like you just kind

3228
02:58:38,600 --> 02:58:41,879
Speaker 4: of see that little wobble in his step.

3229
02:58:42,560 --> 02:58:45,080
Speaker 1: So we kind of took some extra time with him.

3230
02:58:45,879 --> 02:58:48,240
Speaker 4: I believe we got him like a little ice pack

3231
02:58:48,400 --> 02:58:49,840
Speaker 4: to put on the back of his neck, just to

3232
02:58:49,840 --> 02:58:54,000
Speaker 4: try and bring his body temperature down, and then kind

3233
02:58:54,040 --> 02:58:57,240
Speaker 4: of just got that. All five of them regrouped together

3234
02:58:57,680 --> 02:59:03,600
Speaker 4: under a tree some shade, and then from there we

3235
02:59:03,640 --> 02:59:06,680
Speaker 4: went I don't know, maybe we got maybe three hundred

3236
02:59:06,720 --> 02:59:11,720
Speaker 4: feet down the road and we came across a group

3237
02:59:11,800 --> 02:59:15,080
Speaker 4: of five I believe they were all Spanish speakers.

3238
02:59:15,280 --> 02:59:17,120
Speaker 1: I didn't catch where they were from.

3239
02:59:17,840 --> 02:59:21,760
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think once it from Colombia. I can't remember

3240
02:59:21,760 --> 02:59:23,279
Speaker 10: where the whole group were from, though.

3241
02:59:24,280 --> 02:59:25,840
Speaker 1: But that was so far.

3242
02:59:25,879 --> 02:59:29,879
Speaker 4: Everyone we had run into was by a parent's middle

3243
02:59:29,879 --> 02:59:33,880
Speaker 4: aged men I shouldn't say middle age, like young adult. Yeah, yeah,

3244
02:59:33,920 --> 02:59:37,280
Speaker 4: like thirty thirty five maybe, like you know, somewhere in

3245
02:59:37,320 --> 02:59:38,000
Speaker 4: that range.

3246
02:59:38,440 --> 02:59:38,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3247
02:59:38,760 --> 02:59:41,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, they could be anywhere from like twenties to thirties. Yeah.

3248
02:59:41,840 --> 02:59:44,560
Speaker 10: Like I think some of that is because it was

3249
02:59:44,600 --> 02:59:47,080
Speaker 10: such a difficult day that like some folks who have

3250
02:59:47,160 --> 02:59:49,320
Speaker 10: children or older people maybe decided not to make the

3251
02:59:49,400 --> 02:59:52,000
Speaker 10: journey that day. Yeah, they had that choice. But this, yeah,

3252
02:59:52,000 --> 02:59:53,600
Speaker 10: this group was yeah, this.

3253
02:59:53,560 --> 02:59:57,280
Speaker 4: Group of five we I want to say it was

3254
02:59:58,120 --> 03:00:00,360
Speaker 4: three men in that age range.

3255
03:00:00,720 --> 03:00:00,800
Speaker 13: Uh.

3256
03:00:01,080 --> 03:00:04,800
Speaker 1: There was a woman with them, and then a kid that,

3257
03:00:04,840 --> 03:00:07,800
Speaker 1: if I had to guess, probably fifteen at the oldest.

3258
03:00:07,879 --> 03:00:10,680
Speaker 4: Like I seemed to remember, like clocking that he had

3259
03:00:10,720 --> 03:00:12,680
Speaker 4: braces on, like he just he seemed young.

3260
03:00:13,000 --> 03:00:15,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, he seemed like a child. Yeah, it wasn't like

3261
03:00:15,320 --> 03:00:15,960
Speaker 10: a young man.

3262
03:00:16,480 --> 03:00:19,400
Speaker 4: And so you know, we got off to the side

3263
03:00:19,440 --> 03:00:23,119
Speaker 4: of the road again, we're giving them food, water, all

3264
03:00:23,160 --> 03:00:25,440
Speaker 4: that again, like this is all off.

3265
03:00:25,360 --> 03:00:26,720
Speaker 1: The main road for that area.

3266
03:00:27,520 --> 03:00:31,800
Speaker 4: And like as we're interacting with these groups, you know,

3267
03:00:31,840 --> 03:00:36,120
Speaker 4: like several border patrol cars are just zooming passed like yeah,

3268
03:00:36,280 --> 03:00:37,199
Speaker 4: just crazy.

3269
03:00:37,280 --> 03:00:38,280
Speaker 1: But nobody.

3270
03:00:38,320 --> 03:00:41,879
Speaker 4: Nobody's stopping the check in and nobody's you know, like

3271
03:00:42,360 --> 03:00:47,360
Speaker 4: you know, stopping them from big finger quotes here, invading right.

3272
03:00:47,720 --> 03:00:51,000
Speaker 10: Getting getting on a bus as like people are going

3273
03:00:51,000 --> 03:00:53,720
Speaker 10: so mad about us. We oh before they got mad

3274
03:00:53,760 --> 03:00:54,640
Speaker 10: about Haitian people.

3275
03:00:54,720 --> 03:00:58,080
Speaker 4: But yeah, so we we worked with that group. Nobody

3276
03:00:58,400 --> 03:01:04,640
Speaker 4: really seemed to be in dire straits there. So we're

3277
03:01:04,680 --> 03:01:09,280
Speaker 4: working towards a trailhead which we could actually see from

3278
03:01:09,400 --> 03:01:12,760
Speaker 4: where we were working with this group of five and

3279
03:01:13,400 --> 03:01:16,320
Speaker 4: there's like a little bridge there and we just kind

3280
03:01:16,320 --> 03:01:18,520
Speaker 4: of see some heads popping up.

3281
03:01:18,680 --> 03:01:21,439
Speaker 10: Yeah, and we're like, oh, I think you have my binoculars.

3282
03:01:21,879 --> 03:01:23,160
Speaker 3: We were like checking to see.

3283
03:01:23,080 --> 03:01:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're like oh, like we like we need

3284
03:01:25,080 --> 03:01:25,879
Speaker 1: to get over there.

3285
03:01:26,600 --> 03:01:30,400
Speaker 4: So we get back in the truck after we get

3286
03:01:30,400 --> 03:01:32,280
Speaker 4: them kind of you know, as settled as we can,

3287
03:01:32,600 --> 03:01:35,600
Speaker 4: and we get over to this trailhead, which.

3288
03:01:35,480 --> 03:01:39,279
Speaker 1: Is like, really I think where the day because.

3289
03:01:39,080 --> 03:01:40,360
Speaker 4: Like you said, like it was kind of a normal

3290
03:01:40,440 --> 03:01:42,920
Speaker 4: day up until we got to this trailhead and then

3291
03:01:42,959 --> 03:01:44,600
Speaker 4: things kind of seemed to take a turn.

3292
03:01:45,360 --> 03:01:48,440
Speaker 10: Yeah, talking of taking a turn, why don't we take

3293
03:01:48,480 --> 03:01:51,200
Speaker 10: a turn to advertisements and then come back.

3294
03:01:51,240 --> 03:01:52,879
Speaker 1: That's why they pay you the big bucks.

3295
03:01:53,320 --> 03:01:54,200
Speaker 3: That I see.

3296
03:01:54,320 --> 03:02:08,680
Speaker 10: You see that no one saw that comes. All right,

3297
03:02:08,840 --> 03:02:11,760
Speaker 10: we are back. I hope that you haven't bought anything.

3298
03:02:11,959 --> 03:02:13,920
Speaker 10: You could give money to board Lands Relief Collective of

3299
03:02:13,959 --> 03:02:14,320
Speaker 10: Google lip.

3300
03:02:14,440 --> 03:02:17,000
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that would be really nice. I would appreciate that.

3301
03:02:17,920 --> 03:02:20,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, why would I do that?

3302
03:02:20,200 --> 03:02:24,720
Speaker 10: Don't go to Chumber because you know, Yeah, so we

3303
03:02:24,800 --> 03:02:27,480
Speaker 10: got over there and like that location, just to give

3304
03:02:27,520 --> 03:02:31,000
Speaker 10: people like paint a picture. There's the road which we

3305
03:02:31,000 --> 03:02:34,160
Speaker 10: were traveling on, and then parallel to that, parallel to

3306
03:02:34,160 --> 03:02:36,320
Speaker 10: it ninety degrees as a dirt road which we pulled

3307
03:02:36,320 --> 03:02:39,840
Speaker 10: into the road that we were traveling on was going

3308
03:02:39,879 --> 03:02:42,280
Speaker 10: over a creek which is dry at this time of year.

3309
03:02:42,320 --> 03:02:46,000
Speaker 10: So there's a bridge and it was under that bridge

3310
03:02:46,040 --> 03:02:48,520
Speaker 10: that people were hiding from the sun, and so that's

3311
03:02:48,520 --> 03:02:51,160
Speaker 10: why we couldn't see them until we were very close.

3312
03:02:51,600 --> 03:02:55,200
Speaker 10: And yeah, describe what we saw there, because that was

3313
03:02:55,200 --> 03:02:58,120
Speaker 10: when I was like, oh shit, that was when we

3314
03:02:58,160 --> 03:03:01,840
Speaker 10: started to run out of enough bottles for people to

3315
03:03:01,920 --> 03:03:03,680
Speaker 10: drink out of. So we had to like just stop

3316
03:03:04,120 --> 03:03:07,840
Speaker 10: opening like cans of energy drink and beer and stuff

3317
03:03:07,920 --> 03:03:10,320
Speaker 10: or whatever we had just to use them as bottles.

3318
03:03:10,520 --> 03:03:14,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, So we we pull off the road and underneath

3319
03:03:14,879 --> 03:03:18,320
Speaker 4: that bridge. I mean I didn't do like a head

3320
03:03:18,360 --> 03:03:20,720
Speaker 4: count necessarily or anything, but there was a group of

3321
03:03:20,760 --> 03:03:24,280
Speaker 4: like fifteen twenty at least. Yeah, you know, again like

3322
03:03:24,360 --> 03:03:27,480
Speaker 4: mostly men in that like twenty to thirty age range,

3323
03:03:27,800 --> 03:03:31,280
Speaker 4: but there were moms with kids and there just there

3324
03:03:31,280 --> 03:03:34,480
Speaker 4: were so many people. We at that point we had

3325
03:03:35,560 --> 03:03:38,520
Speaker 4: you know, some water bottles, some gatorades. We had that

3326
03:03:38,640 --> 03:03:42,120
Speaker 4: one five gallon jug with the ice water in it

3327
03:03:42,240 --> 03:03:44,720
Speaker 4: left that we were going to take up to the

3328
03:03:44,720 --> 03:03:49,400
Speaker 4: top of this pass, and we just like by the

3329
03:03:49,440 --> 03:03:53,520
Speaker 4: time we got done getting every one water, we ran

3330
03:03:53,560 --> 03:03:55,879
Speaker 4: out of water in the jug. I think we had

3331
03:03:55,920 --> 03:03:58,400
Speaker 4: just about cleared out all the food we had.

3332
03:03:58,520 --> 03:04:00,480
Speaker 1: We had no more Gator aids.

3333
03:04:00,480 --> 03:04:03,280
Speaker 4: We were scrounging around in the back of your truck

3334
03:04:03,400 --> 03:04:07,520
Speaker 4: trying to just find vessels essentially to give people what

3335
03:04:07,640 --> 03:04:08,959
Speaker 4: liquid we could, you.

3336
03:04:08,920 --> 03:04:11,600
Speaker 1: Know, like get at shake out of the ice.

3337
03:04:12,240 --> 03:04:13,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, it was not good.

3338
03:04:14,120 --> 03:04:20,560
Speaker 4: And so then that was when there was one young

3339
03:04:20,600 --> 03:04:24,120
Speaker 4: man I believe he said he was from Jordan. He

3340
03:04:24,280 --> 03:04:26,760
Speaker 4: was trying to get our attention and telling us, you know,

3341
03:04:26,760 --> 03:04:29,520
Speaker 4: like I've got two like I've got family up there too,

3342
03:04:29,600 --> 03:04:32,480
Speaker 4: two family And he keeps pointing up up the mountain

3343
03:04:32,640 --> 03:04:36,840
Speaker 4: toward the pass, saying he's got two family members up there.

3344
03:04:37,320 --> 03:04:41,640
Speaker 4: And then another man I didn't catch where he was from,

3345
03:04:41,720 --> 03:04:44,080
Speaker 4: but he was telling us there were two family members

3346
03:04:44,240 --> 03:04:46,760
Speaker 4: of first man. And then there was another three men

3347
03:04:47,520 --> 03:04:50,760
Speaker 4: traveling up there and they were trying to indicate to

3348
03:04:50,840 --> 03:04:55,480
Speaker 4: us that one of them had heart problems.

3349
03:04:55,959 --> 03:04:58,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was how they how they put it.

3350
03:04:59,000 --> 03:05:01,000
Speaker 4: So we kept telling like, hey, like you know, we're

3351
03:05:01,560 --> 03:05:05,080
Speaker 4: we're going to go help them, but the gate to

3352
03:05:05,240 --> 03:05:09,359
Speaker 4: access that the road that goes up that pass was locked.

3353
03:05:10,360 --> 03:05:13,120
Speaker 4: So first we had to figure out like who we

3354
03:05:13,160 --> 03:05:17,080
Speaker 4: could contact to get through the gate. And then that

3355
03:05:17,640 --> 03:05:20,560
Speaker 4: poor guy that you know said his family members were

3356
03:05:20,640 --> 03:05:24,600
Speaker 4: up on that mountain like he desperately, desperately wanted us

3357
03:05:24,640 --> 03:05:27,160
Speaker 4: to drive him up there with us, but we had

3358
03:05:27,160 --> 03:05:28,959
Speaker 4: to keep telling him, like we just we.

3359
03:05:28,840 --> 03:05:31,600
Speaker 1: Can't, Like it is so illegal for us to put

3360
03:05:31,600 --> 03:05:34,200
Speaker 1: you in a vehicle. Yeah, thank you anywhere.

3361
03:05:34,680 --> 03:05:37,640
Speaker 10: Yeah, Like at least the interpretation of the Lower's border

3362
03:05:37,640 --> 03:05:40,080
Speaker 10: patrols easy is that we would be like trafficking them

3363
03:05:40,200 --> 03:05:43,440
Speaker 10: at that point. And like maybe one could defend it

3364
03:05:43,440 --> 03:05:46,040
Speaker 10: in court if the person was like bleeding out or

3365
03:05:46,160 --> 03:05:49,640
Speaker 10: you know something, but pretty much that is something that

3366
03:05:49,680 --> 03:05:50,320
Speaker 10: we can't do.

3367
03:05:50,800 --> 03:05:53,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've been out on a water drop together and

3368
03:05:53,959 --> 03:05:57,760
Speaker 4: just handing out food and water to people on foot

3369
03:05:57,959 --> 03:06:00,959
Speaker 4: next to the truck, and border patrol has like an

3370
03:06:00,959 --> 03:06:04,160
Speaker 4: agent has threatened to write us up for trafficking.

3371
03:06:05,080 --> 03:06:07,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, in this particular student, which like I I

3372
03:06:07,879 --> 03:06:10,880
Speaker 10: don't really care. This agent can go fuck himself. Like

3373
03:06:11,640 --> 03:06:15,120
Speaker 10: we were. This girl was probably four years old. I

3374
03:06:15,200 --> 03:06:19,080
Speaker 10: would say, I don't know exactly, I didn't ask, wasn't

3375
03:06:19,120 --> 03:06:20,960
Speaker 10: the most important thing at the time. She was with

3376
03:06:21,000 --> 03:06:24,080
Speaker 10: her mother. They were both from Guinea and a Nigerian woman.

3377
03:06:24,400 --> 03:06:26,600
Speaker 10: Like I speak French, so I was speaking to the

3378
03:06:26,600 --> 03:06:30,560
Speaker 10: Guineaian family and like I remember you were trying to

3379
03:06:30,560 --> 03:06:32,279
Speaker 10: feed the little girl right she had.

3380
03:06:32,360 --> 03:06:35,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, another another volunteer and I were trying to feed

3381
03:06:35,760 --> 03:06:38,840
Speaker 4: her some trail mix I had, and she she wouldn't

3382
03:06:38,840 --> 03:06:41,680
Speaker 4: touch any of it but the but the dried banana

3383
03:06:41,760 --> 03:06:44,840
Speaker 4: chips that were in there. So yeah, like actually, ever

3384
03:06:44,879 --> 03:06:47,400
Speaker 4: since then, anytime I make trail mix for drops, I

3385
03:06:47,400 --> 03:06:50,400
Speaker 4: always make sure that I've got dry banana trips and

3386
03:06:50,480 --> 03:06:52,440
Speaker 4: they're just you know, in case there's another kid that

3387
03:06:52,440 --> 03:06:53,560
Speaker 4: that's all they'll eat.

3388
03:06:54,080 --> 03:06:57,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, And I remember like she wasn't very responsive. I've

3389
03:06:57,959 --> 03:06:59,600
Speaker 10: been talking to her mom, and her mother's feet were

3390
03:06:59,600 --> 03:07:04,920
Speaker 10: in a very bad way, like immersion foot. And after

3391
03:07:04,920 --> 03:07:07,080
Speaker 10: a while we were like, this little girl is like

3392
03:07:07,640 --> 03:07:11,080
Speaker 10: not very talkative at all, like maybe to a degree

3393
03:07:11,080 --> 03:07:13,760
Speaker 10: that we should be concerned. And I think we both

3394
03:07:14,320 --> 03:07:16,560
Speaker 10: were all kind of quickly realized she was very cold,

3395
03:07:17,040 --> 03:07:21,879
Speaker 10: like potentially hypothermic. I remember having there. I tried to

3396
03:07:21,920 --> 03:07:25,720
Speaker 10: record some of this for the podcast, but it's all fun,

3397
03:07:25,800 --> 03:07:27,680
Speaker 10: it's all. I had to wrap her up in a

3398
03:07:27,680 --> 03:07:30,360
Speaker 10: miler blanket such that like I was sitting behind her

3399
03:07:30,440 --> 03:07:33,560
Speaker 10: so that she would get like warm from me, right

3400
03:07:34,000 --> 03:07:36,440
Speaker 10: and sit my jacket so she would get warm from me.

3401
03:07:37,360 --> 03:07:40,760
Speaker 10: And obviously the whole fucking podcast bit is my love

3402
03:07:40,760 --> 03:07:43,000
Speaker 10: blanket noise, Which is a shame because at that point

3403
03:07:43,320 --> 03:07:47,439
Speaker 10: a border patrol agent arrived started swearing at us, accusing

3404
03:07:47,480 --> 03:07:51,680
Speaker 10: us of trafficking, just like as if this little girl

3405
03:07:51,760 --> 03:07:55,080
Speaker 10: wasn't having the worst day of her life anyway. Yeah,

3406
03:07:55,520 --> 03:07:57,920
Speaker 10: just like someone who's paid by my taxes and your

3407
03:07:57,920 --> 03:08:00,640
Speaker 10: taxes turns up to scream at the only people who

3408
03:08:00,680 --> 03:08:02,680
Speaker 10: are helping her that day, and her right like it

3409
03:08:02,840 --> 03:08:06,080
Speaker 10: scared them. And eventually one of our friends was able

3410
03:08:06,080 --> 03:08:10,800
Speaker 10: to de escalate that situation and those people got taken

3411
03:08:10,840 --> 03:08:13,840
Speaker 10: and hopefully protested, and I hope that they are living

3412
03:08:14,080 --> 03:08:16,800
Speaker 10: a happy life in the US, yeah for sure, But.

3413
03:08:16,760 --> 03:08:18,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a bad day.

3414
03:08:19,440 --> 03:08:23,080
Speaker 10: So yeah, we as you said, right, we can't take

3415
03:08:23,080 --> 03:08:26,280
Speaker 10: this guy with us back up the hill, and we're

3416
03:08:27,640 --> 03:08:29,600
Speaker 10: now trying to get so it's about ten kilometers to

3417
03:08:29,640 --> 03:08:32,280
Speaker 10: the top, and it's ten kilometers and I have no

3418
03:08:32,360 --> 03:08:34,480
Speaker 10: idea how it's a lot of climbing, Like it's it's

3419
03:08:34,560 --> 03:08:38,560
Speaker 10: ten kilometers all uphill, and so like it's not really

3420
03:08:38,600 --> 03:08:41,480
Speaker 10: possible for us to hike up that road and get

3421
03:08:41,520 --> 03:08:44,840
Speaker 10: to these people who need help in a timely manner,

3422
03:08:44,920 --> 03:08:47,120
Speaker 10: right in a manner that, so we need to drive.

3423
03:08:48,800 --> 03:08:51,240
Speaker 10: I think in the end we ended up calling nine

3424
03:08:51,280 --> 03:08:54,039
Speaker 10: one one, Yeah, I think that was what we also

3425
03:08:54,040 --> 03:08:57,240
Speaker 10: called a friend who personally contacted Yeah.

3426
03:08:57,280 --> 03:09:01,280
Speaker 1: Then yeah, somebody got Calfi out for us.

3427
03:09:01,320 --> 03:09:03,920
Speaker 4: They opened the gate kind of let us take the

3428
03:09:04,000 --> 03:09:06,880
Speaker 4: lead up that dirt road. Yeah.

3429
03:09:06,879 --> 03:09:09,080
Speaker 10: I thought that was really cool of them, Like it

3430
03:09:09,120 --> 03:09:10,800
Speaker 10: would have been easy for them to be like, yeah,

3431
03:09:10,840 --> 03:09:14,560
Speaker 10: we're here to save you and like credit where it's

3432
03:09:14,560 --> 03:09:16,000
Speaker 10: to you. They were like, your truck is going to

3433
03:09:16,040 --> 03:09:18,480
Speaker 10: go fast enough, fire rangine, you guys should go first.

3434
03:09:19,160 --> 03:09:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3435
03:09:19,600 --> 03:09:22,760
Speaker 4: So we get a portion of the way up and

3436
03:09:22,879 --> 03:09:26,040
Speaker 4: we run into the group of three men that we

3437
03:09:26,040 --> 03:09:30,000
Speaker 4: were told were there and were At this point, I

3438
03:09:30,240 --> 03:09:32,960
Speaker 4: think is when we realized like, oh shit, like the

3439
03:09:33,000 --> 03:09:36,560
Speaker 4: only water we have on our that we have at

3440
03:09:36,560 --> 03:09:41,440
Speaker 4: all is our personal water. So yeah, I actually I

3441
03:09:41,480 --> 03:09:45,240
Speaker 4: have water bottle right here next to me. I I

3442
03:09:45,280 --> 03:09:48,640
Speaker 4: like was literally pouring what I had left into their.

3443
03:09:48,520 --> 03:09:49,960
Speaker 1: Water bottle for them.

3444
03:09:50,200 --> 03:09:50,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3445
03:09:50,879 --> 03:09:53,640
Speaker 4: Luckily this is like an insulated thing, so it's cold

3446
03:09:54,160 --> 03:09:56,560
Speaker 4: for them. But you know, we're trying to figure out

3447
03:09:56,600 --> 03:09:58,680
Speaker 4: like shit, like when we get to when we find

3448
03:09:58,920 --> 03:10:02,080
Speaker 4: these two women, the family members, the guy kept talking

3449
03:10:02,080 --> 03:10:03,520
Speaker 4: about like yeah, what.

3450
03:10:03,440 --> 03:10:04,720
Speaker 1: Are like, what are we going to do?

3451
03:10:04,800 --> 03:10:04,959
Speaker 9: Then?

3452
03:10:05,080 --> 03:10:08,560
Speaker 4: Like I think we ended up giving when we came

3453
03:10:08,600 --> 03:10:12,400
Speaker 4: across them further up the mountain at that point, like

3454
03:10:12,400 --> 03:10:16,279
Speaker 4: we basically just had my backup now Gene. Yeah left,

3455
03:10:16,360 --> 03:10:19,640
Speaker 4: So we were like, hey, we want you to to

3456
03:10:19,760 --> 03:10:23,000
Speaker 4: take this, Like, we just gave them the full now

3457
03:10:23,080 --> 03:10:25,959
Speaker 4: Gene and tried our best to explain to them that

3458
03:10:25,959 --> 03:10:27,840
Speaker 4: we were going to go to the top make sure

3459
03:10:27,959 --> 03:10:31,600
Speaker 4: that there wasn't anybody else up there, and then we

3460
03:10:31,600 --> 03:10:33,879
Speaker 4: were going to come back down to check on them.

3461
03:10:34,640 --> 03:10:35,680
Speaker 1: So we do that.

3462
03:10:35,720 --> 03:10:38,280
Speaker 4: We go up to the top where you and some

3463
03:10:38,400 --> 03:10:42,440
Speaker 4: other volunteers have built like a little shade structure to

3464
03:10:42,480 --> 03:10:45,199
Speaker 4: try and just give people some relief.

3465
03:10:45,640 --> 03:10:45,879
Speaker 9: Yeah.

3466
03:10:46,000 --> 03:10:49,040
Speaker 10: I didn't built that one. I built the that previous

3467
03:10:49,080 --> 03:10:53,560
Speaker 10: one that got torn down. Okay, bye. Some type of

3468
03:10:53,640 --> 03:10:57,720
Speaker 10: cop lovely yeah great, really nice, really help. It wasn't

3469
03:10:57,720 --> 03:10:59,760
Speaker 10: actually a cop, to be fat I'm pretty sure it was.

3470
03:11:00,280 --> 03:11:04,200
Speaker 10: It was some other federal agency BLM or BP or someone.

3471
03:11:05,360 --> 03:11:07,840
Speaker 4: But so when we got up to the top, we

3472
03:11:07,879 --> 03:11:11,720
Speaker 4: didn't see anybody else. We couldn't find anybody up there.

3473
03:11:11,800 --> 03:11:15,120
Speaker 4: We were doing our best to try and use our

3474
03:11:15,200 --> 03:11:16,200
Speaker 4: language skills to.

3475
03:11:17,120 --> 03:11:20,440
Speaker 10: Yeah, we were just shouting in various languages to see

3476
03:11:20,440 --> 03:11:21,400
Speaker 10: if anyone needed help.

3477
03:11:21,920 --> 03:11:25,760
Speaker 4: Then the CalFire guys met back up with us up there,

3478
03:11:26,680 --> 03:11:29,160
Speaker 4: you know, figured out like hey, like you know, we

3479
03:11:29,160 --> 03:11:32,959
Speaker 4: we're not seeing anybody else. So you and I decided

3480
03:11:34,280 --> 03:11:36,360
Speaker 4: that basically all we could do at that point was

3481
03:11:36,400 --> 03:11:41,760
Speaker 4: go back down the mountain and go further south to

3482
03:11:41,920 --> 03:11:44,760
Speaker 4: a little town that's like pretty much right on the border.

3483
03:11:44,800 --> 03:11:47,080
Speaker 10: I think, yeah, it's literally a border crossing.

3484
03:11:47,240 --> 03:11:50,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, because we ended up, we drove down, checked in

3485
03:11:50,400 --> 03:11:53,240
Speaker 4: on the women, the two women that were traveling down.

3486
03:11:54,000 --> 03:11:56,280
Speaker 4: They seemed to be doing about as okay as they

3487
03:11:56,320 --> 03:11:57,640
Speaker 4: could at the time.

3488
03:11:58,160 --> 03:11:58,920
Speaker 1: Again, it's like I.

3489
03:11:58,879 --> 03:12:02,119
Speaker 4: Don't know, one hundred and five, Yeah, completely exposed up there.

3490
03:12:02,480 --> 03:12:04,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no tree, c co a, you're not getting

3491
03:12:04,800 --> 03:12:05,400
Speaker 3: any shape.

3492
03:12:05,600 --> 03:12:06,240
Speaker 1: I don't I.

3493
03:12:06,160 --> 03:12:09,600
Speaker 4: Don't remember it being particularly windy at all, so it's just.

3494
03:12:09,560 --> 03:12:11,480
Speaker 3: Like hot still still.

3495
03:12:12,040 --> 03:12:17,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, But we get down the mountain kind of give everyone,

3496
03:12:18,080 --> 03:12:21,240
Speaker 4: like the big group that's there under the tree at

3497
03:12:21,240 --> 03:12:24,640
Speaker 4: the bridge at the bottom heads up of what we're doing.

3498
03:12:25,160 --> 03:12:28,120
Speaker 4: We go into this little town and like again like

3499
03:12:28,560 --> 03:12:32,160
Speaker 4: tiny little place, like it's basically from what I saw

3500
03:12:32,320 --> 03:12:36,880
Speaker 4: just parking lots and then like a gas station and

3501
03:12:36,920 --> 03:12:37,760
Speaker 4: a border crossing.

3502
03:12:38,200 --> 03:12:39,880
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's it.

3503
03:12:39,959 --> 03:12:43,120
Speaker 4: We went into this gas station and bought I think

3504
03:12:43,200 --> 03:12:45,400
Speaker 4: like sixteen gallons worth of water.

3505
03:12:46,200 --> 03:12:48,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, they had to go round the back to get

3506
03:12:48,120 --> 03:12:50,800
Speaker 10: the rest of the water. Like we took all the

3507
03:12:50,959 --> 03:12:52,320
Speaker 10: gallons jugs they had.

3508
03:12:52,720 --> 03:12:55,080
Speaker 4: They had one of those little like displays of like

3509
03:12:55,360 --> 03:12:57,280
Speaker 4: I don't know, I think it was like little keebler

3510
03:12:57,440 --> 03:12:59,280
Speaker 4: like cheese cracker sandwiches.

3511
03:12:59,320 --> 03:13:00,840
Speaker 1: Like we just bought the whole splay.

3512
03:13:02,000 --> 03:13:06,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, just to try and give people some some more food.

3513
03:13:07,320 --> 03:13:09,520
Speaker 4: And then from there, like we just high tailed it

3514
03:13:09,600 --> 03:13:13,040
Speaker 4: back to the bridge, like distributed out some more water,

3515
03:13:14,040 --> 03:13:16,160
Speaker 4: checked in with them again, just like explained like we're

3516
03:13:16,160 --> 03:13:19,879
Speaker 4: going back up. And as we were going back up

3517
03:13:19,920 --> 03:13:23,840
Speaker 4: the mountain, we started seeing these like little rain drops

3518
03:13:23,879 --> 03:13:28,360
Speaker 4: hit in our windshield. Yeah, like oh that that can't

3519
03:13:28,360 --> 03:13:31,600
Speaker 4: be good, you know, so we continue up. When we

3520
03:13:31,920 --> 03:13:34,360
Speaker 4: when we found the two women, they were both just

3521
03:13:34,440 --> 03:13:37,160
Speaker 4: kind of lying in some shade just on the road.

3522
03:13:37,760 --> 03:13:37,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3523
03:13:38,000 --> 03:13:39,240
Speaker 10: It was not a good scene.

3524
03:13:39,560 --> 03:13:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so we got out.

3525
03:13:42,120 --> 03:13:45,520
Speaker 4: We mixed I think it was we got one gallon

3526
03:13:45,560 --> 03:13:48,160
Speaker 4: of cold water and then we took another of the

3527
03:13:48,160 --> 03:13:50,520
Speaker 4: gallon jugs and just mixed up like a full thing

3528
03:13:50,640 --> 03:13:53,760
Speaker 4: with some gatorade powder we found in your truck. Yeah,

3529
03:13:53,959 --> 03:13:58,280
Speaker 4: and just kind of sat down with them, and then

3530
03:13:59,120 --> 03:14:01,959
Speaker 4: we got help well with some translation over the phone,

3531
03:14:02,240 --> 03:14:05,160
Speaker 4: trying to like talk to these women figure out like

3532
03:14:05,480 --> 03:14:08,280
Speaker 4: what exactly was going on, because one of them kept

3533
03:14:08,280 --> 03:14:09,640
Speaker 4: like kind of pointing to her chest.

3534
03:14:10,440 --> 03:14:13,760
Speaker 10: Yeah, and she was doing the like thump thump thump, yeah,

3535
03:14:13,800 --> 03:14:15,000
Speaker 10: which is concerning.

3536
03:14:15,320 --> 03:14:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

3537
03:14:15,640 --> 03:14:17,039
Speaker 1: You know, like through through.

3538
03:14:16,879 --> 03:14:20,000
Speaker 4: The help we got translating over the phone, just basically

3539
03:14:20,040 --> 03:14:24,120
Speaker 4: explained like we like we just absolutely cannot transport to

3540
03:14:24,240 --> 03:14:26,520
Speaker 4: like we we want nothing more in this world than

3541
03:14:26,560 --> 03:14:29,360
Speaker 4: to be able to take you down the mountain, but

3542
03:14:29,680 --> 03:14:30,520
Speaker 4: we just can't.

3543
03:14:30,800 --> 03:14:31,039
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3544
03:14:31,200 --> 03:14:34,680
Speaker 10: Like I would very happily put those ladies in my

3545
03:14:34,800 --> 03:14:38,519
Speaker 10: truck and driven them down, Like that would have considerably

3546
03:14:38,560 --> 03:14:39,480
Speaker 10: improved my day.

3547
03:14:39,680 --> 03:14:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3548
03:14:40,200 --> 03:14:44,520
Speaker 10: I did do that, because it is fucking heartbreaking trying

3549
03:14:44,560 --> 03:14:47,240
Speaker 10: to tell someone they have to keep walking when they're

3550
03:14:47,280 --> 03:14:51,400
Speaker 10: maybe halfway down and they're like just lying there, exhausted,

3551
03:14:51,520 --> 03:14:54,320
Speaker 10: ready to Yeah I don't know what, just give up,

3552
03:14:54,360 --> 03:14:59,120
Speaker 10: but yeah, it fucking sucks. It sucks. We now know

3553
03:14:59,440 --> 03:15:03,880
Speaker 10: that several people died that day and the day before

3554
03:15:04,480 --> 03:15:07,360
Speaker 10: and the day after. I guess I don't know exactly

3555
03:15:07,440 --> 03:15:11,280
Speaker 10: how many because the medical examiner hasn't confirmed, and I'm

3556
03:15:11,280 --> 03:15:13,680
Speaker 10: not going to say their names or really much about

3557
03:15:13,680 --> 03:15:17,520
Speaker 10: the location beyond that because I want to respect the

3558
03:15:17,560 --> 03:15:21,520
Speaker 10: privacy of their remains and their family, and so until

3559
03:15:21,560 --> 03:15:25,720
Speaker 10: we hear from them, I won't. But like it's I

3560
03:15:25,800 --> 03:15:27,680
Speaker 10: found out some people had died in the vicinity of

3561
03:15:27,720 --> 03:15:31,280
Speaker 10: where we were, and I don't know exactly where it's

3562
03:15:31,280 --> 03:15:33,200
Speaker 10: people died. I don't know who they were, but like

3563
03:15:33,840 --> 03:15:36,000
Speaker 10: it's a really fucking hard thing to say with Like

3564
03:15:36,360 --> 03:15:39,240
Speaker 10: I think those people we helped were probably okay. I

3565
03:15:39,280 --> 03:15:43,679
Speaker 10: think between the fact that as we'll get onto a

3566
03:15:43,720 --> 03:15:48,040
Speaker 10: giant thunderstorm soaks soaks them to the degree that we

3567
03:15:48,080 --> 03:15:51,080
Speaker 10: had to give them like ponchos, and then but just

3568
03:15:51,120 --> 03:15:53,320
Speaker 10: having to deal with like I would happily I have

3569
03:15:53,400 --> 03:15:54,959
Speaker 10: driven up and down that road all day, but people

3570
03:15:55,000 --> 03:15:56,800
Speaker 10: in my truck wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest.

3571
03:15:57,560 --> 03:16:02,760
Speaker 10: We're not not able to and somebody journey ended in tragedy,

3572
03:16:03,080 --> 03:16:06,920
Speaker 10: and like it's I don't know, Like we we try

3573
03:16:06,920 --> 03:16:10,400
Speaker 10: our best rather a lot, and it's not we do

3574
03:16:10,760 --> 03:16:12,800
Speaker 10: more than enough, Like I'm not saying that, like I say,

3575
03:16:12,800 --> 03:16:14,840
Speaker 10: it's own any way on us, but like we would

3576
03:16:14,879 --> 03:16:17,120
Speaker 10: love to do more if they would let us, and

3577
03:16:17,560 --> 03:16:19,640
Speaker 10: like shit like that, like not began to put people

3578
03:16:19,640 --> 03:16:22,800
Speaker 10: in the vehicle. It's just it's just hard to live with,

3579
03:16:24,040 --> 03:16:27,480
Speaker 10: you know, when you're sitting and bed at night or whatever, Yeah,

3580
03:16:27,560 --> 03:16:29,600
Speaker 10: having your dinner Like it sucks.

3581
03:16:29,800 --> 03:16:33,240
Speaker 16: But yeah, because like there's I said, I feel like

3582
03:16:33,320 --> 03:16:36,879
Speaker 16: there's this picture like when you talk about San Diego

3583
03:16:37,000 --> 03:16:39,680
Speaker 16: or just kind of southern California in general, it's oh,

3584
03:16:39,760 --> 03:16:41,240
Speaker 16: like it's sunny beaches.

3585
03:16:40,920 --> 03:16:43,840
Speaker 1: It's nice days, like it's mild weather year round.

3586
03:16:44,040 --> 03:16:46,720
Speaker 4: But as we've said multiple times at this point, like

3587
03:16:46,760 --> 03:16:49,160
Speaker 4: it gets fucking hot. It gets It was one hundred

3588
03:16:49,200 --> 03:16:52,600
Speaker 4: and five degrees on that mountain. A thunderstorm rolled in,

3589
03:16:52,680 --> 03:16:55,480
Speaker 4: and in a matter of I don't know, twenty thirty minutes,

3590
03:16:55,879 --> 03:16:58,680
Speaker 4: our conversation went from like, oh, like I hope they

3591
03:16:58,959 --> 03:17:00,320
Speaker 4: are you know, are not coming down with a heat

3592
03:17:00,360 --> 03:17:02,560
Speaker 4: illness or you know, gonna get heat stroke, to like,

3593
03:17:03,360 --> 03:17:06,920
Speaker 4: oh shit, like are they gonna go hyperthermic? Like what

3594
03:17:06,240 --> 03:17:08,560
Speaker 4: what do we have to get them warm? We're trying

3595
03:17:08,600 --> 03:17:10,400
Speaker 4: to cool them down. Now, we're trying to warm them up. Like,

3596
03:17:10,560 --> 03:17:12,880
Speaker 4: what kind of cruel joke is this?

3597
03:17:13,800 --> 03:17:16,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, like it does seem like this the most perverse

3598
03:17:16,920 --> 03:17:20,879
Speaker 10: thing to be. Like then worried about fucking lightning on

3599
03:17:20,920 --> 03:17:24,000
Speaker 10: the other side of the valley, you know, like it

3600
03:17:24,040 --> 03:17:27,039
Speaker 10: was insane just from like we then we carried on

3601
03:17:27,120 --> 03:17:29,199
Speaker 10: up the mountain, dropped some water, and then returned down

3602
03:17:29,240 --> 03:17:32,280
Speaker 10: to check on these women again. And when we were

3603
03:17:32,280 --> 03:17:34,000
Speaker 10: at the top of the mountain, we could look down

3604
03:17:34,080 --> 03:17:37,440
Speaker 10: on the thunderstorm. Yeah, see it beneath us. And then yeah,

3605
03:17:37,480 --> 03:17:41,040
Speaker 10: we drove into it, and like, just what an apocalyptic

3606
03:17:42,080 --> 03:17:45,200
Speaker 10: scenario to be in, you know, like it's jumping with rain,

3607
03:17:45,800 --> 03:17:49,800
Speaker 10: triple digit temperatures and or you have the only thing

3608
03:17:49,840 --> 03:17:53,360
Speaker 10: you're allowed to do is walk, like it was difficult.

3609
03:17:53,400 --> 03:17:57,480
Speaker 10: And then like, I guess the last thing the last

3610
03:17:57,480 --> 03:17:59,640
Speaker 10: person we ran into as we came down the mountain

3611
03:17:59,840 --> 03:18:03,520
Speaker 10: was the guy who'd been pleading with us to go

3612
03:18:03,600 --> 03:18:08,320
Speaker 10: help them. Yeah, God, and like had decided Border Patrol

3613
03:18:08,360 --> 03:18:11,120
Speaker 10: had collected everyone to take them to process them right

3614
03:18:11,160 --> 03:18:13,200
Speaker 10: for their asylum claim. And that we've heard on this

3615
03:18:13,200 --> 03:18:15,600
Speaker 10: podcast before about what it's like when that happened. It's

3616
03:18:15,640 --> 03:18:20,080
Speaker 10: not nice. It's not a pleasant stay. It's now considerably worse.

3617
03:18:20,120 --> 03:18:22,879
Speaker 10: I imagine people are being moved to Texas. They stayed

3618
03:18:22,879 --> 03:18:26,480
Speaker 10: for weeks. I met a young man a few months

3619
03:18:26,520 --> 03:18:29,039
Speaker 10: ago now who was in detention for three or four

3620
03:18:29,080 --> 03:18:31,560
Speaker 10: weeks before I presume being deported back. I can't find

3621
03:18:31,560 --> 03:18:35,120
Speaker 10: any record of him being released, which fucking sucks. So

3622
03:18:35,440 --> 03:18:38,600
Speaker 10: like this guy had chosen not to go back, and

3623
03:18:38,680 --> 03:18:42,560
Speaker 10: instead he'd chosen to hike back up the mountain without

3624
03:18:42,560 --> 03:18:45,360
Speaker 10: any food, without any water, to try and rescue these women,

3625
03:18:45,560 --> 03:18:51,320
Speaker 10: which it's an incredibly selfless thing to do, but he

3626
03:18:51,400 --> 03:18:53,560
Speaker 10: was in a bad way, right, yeah.

3627
03:18:53,440 --> 03:18:56,959
Speaker 4: Because so we passed the two women on the way down,

3628
03:18:57,200 --> 03:19:00,640
Speaker 4: kind of gave them little snacks here, like just try

3629
03:19:00,680 --> 03:19:02,440
Speaker 4: to encourage them as much as we could. And then

3630
03:19:02,440 --> 03:19:06,720
Speaker 4: when we ran into this man, he you know, kind

3631
03:19:06,720 --> 03:19:08,880
Speaker 4: of had that I don't know what other word to use,

3632
03:19:08,879 --> 03:19:11,080
Speaker 4: but kind of like crazed look in his eyes, like

3633
03:19:11,080 --> 03:19:13,520
Speaker 4: he wasn't sure, like yeah I do I just go

3634
03:19:13,600 --> 03:19:15,720
Speaker 4: back down, like I can't leave them, like I need

3635
03:19:15,720 --> 03:19:18,119
Speaker 4: to keep going, like I feel like I can't. And

3636
03:19:18,240 --> 03:19:21,320
Speaker 4: so we tried to get him settled as much as

3637
03:19:21,320 --> 03:19:21,680
Speaker 4: we could.

3638
03:19:21,720 --> 03:19:22,640
Speaker 1: We got him some water.

3639
03:19:23,080 --> 03:19:25,680
Speaker 4: I think you dug out some like gummy worms or

3640
03:19:25,720 --> 03:19:27,080
Speaker 4: something from one of your bags.

3641
03:19:27,200 --> 03:19:30,039
Speaker 10: Yeah, it had a bag of hot It wasn't It's

3642
03:19:30,080 --> 03:19:34,400
Speaker 10: like an open bag of horrabo that he was happy

3643
03:19:34,440 --> 03:19:34,960
Speaker 10: to receive.

3644
03:19:35,120 --> 03:19:37,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, and uh, you know, we just did our best

3645
03:19:38,080 --> 03:19:41,920
Speaker 4: to try and convince him to just kind of sit

3646
03:19:42,000 --> 03:19:46,480
Speaker 4: there rest a little bit and you know, like assure.

3647
03:19:46,200 --> 03:19:48,680
Speaker 1: Him that they're coming. They're walking down now.

3648
03:19:48,879 --> 03:19:53,160
Speaker 4: And it was honestly kind of beautiful the one woman,

3649
03:19:53,160 --> 03:19:55,480
Speaker 4: because the two women had kind of split up a

3650
03:19:55,520 --> 03:19:58,520
Speaker 4: little bit while they were walking downhill. So the one

3651
03:19:58,600 --> 03:20:01,920
Speaker 4: comes around the bend and like when they saw each other,

3652
03:20:01,959 --> 03:20:02,720
Speaker 4: like he just kind of.

3653
03:20:02,680 --> 03:20:05,440
Speaker 1: Like you could see like just everything about.

3654
03:20:05,320 --> 03:20:08,840
Speaker 4: Him just kind of elevated and he, you know, pepinist stuff,

3655
03:20:08,879 --> 03:20:10,840
Speaker 4: was like, oh my god, I'm so happy to see you.

3656
03:20:11,040 --> 03:20:14,000
Speaker 10: And yeah, he got up because he'd just been kind

3657
03:20:14,000 --> 03:20:19,080
Speaker 10: of slouched there almost like just looking exhausted.

3658
03:20:19,640 --> 03:20:23,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, so like seeing them kind of reunite was really nice,

3659
03:20:23,760 --> 03:20:27,640
Speaker 4: and they had a quick conversation and seemed like they

3660
03:20:27,720 --> 03:20:30,080
Speaker 4: kind of decided she was going to keep going down,

3661
03:20:30,200 --> 03:20:34,320
Speaker 4: and you know, he just seemed like energized by that

3662
03:20:34,480 --> 03:20:37,240
Speaker 4: and decided to keep going up to find the other

3663
03:20:37,280 --> 03:20:39,720
Speaker 4: woman to make sure she made it down as well.

3664
03:20:39,920 --> 03:20:42,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, which was like not an easy choice. I'm sure

3665
03:20:42,840 --> 03:20:45,360
Speaker 10: of him, Like no, yeah, Like at that point again,

3666
03:20:45,480 --> 03:20:48,440
Speaker 10: we were out of food. We we mixed him up

3667
03:20:48,440 --> 03:20:50,680
Speaker 10: some gatorade, and I think we took the sugar backets

3668
03:20:50,680 --> 03:20:53,800
Speaker 10: from MRI and like mixed them in there and some salt,

3669
03:20:53,920 --> 03:20:57,360
Speaker 10: just like yeah, try and give him, like I guess

3670
03:20:57,400 --> 03:21:00,200
Speaker 10: something some fluid he could hold on too. So who

3671
03:21:00,200 --> 03:21:02,760
Speaker 10: doesn't get hyper and our tree make right, which is

3672
03:21:02,959 --> 03:21:06,080
Speaker 10: definitely something when you see the amount of salt on people,

3673
03:21:07,080 --> 03:21:10,240
Speaker 10: like the white crusting on them, like they're only drinking

3674
03:21:10,240 --> 03:21:13,960
Speaker 10: water and they're not replacing electrolytes, like it becomes a concern. Yeah,

3675
03:21:14,000 --> 03:21:16,160
Speaker 10: that I guess was us for the day, right, Like

3676
03:21:16,200 --> 03:21:20,360
Speaker 10: we we drove home, and like we don't get to

3677
03:21:20,400 --> 03:21:23,040
Speaker 10: really find out how anyone did and we don't get

3678
03:21:23,080 --> 03:21:26,960
Speaker 10: to follow up, right, Like it's kind of not how

3679
03:21:26,959 --> 03:21:31,039
Speaker 10: that works. But yeah, that's just one day. Like I

3680
03:21:31,080 --> 03:21:36,240
Speaker 10: spoke to Raphael from and Helistad he was out on Monday,

3681
03:21:36,400 --> 03:21:38,840
Speaker 10: said it was just as bad, right doing a search

3682
03:21:38,879 --> 03:21:42,320
Speaker 10: and rescue on Monday for a mother and child and

3683
03:21:42,360 --> 03:21:46,360
Speaker 10: that they were able to rescue them, and like I

3684
03:21:46,360 --> 03:21:48,120
Speaker 10: felt like it was a value to highlight what we

3685
03:21:48,160 --> 03:21:51,320
Speaker 10: saw in one day because it's it's every day. I mean,

3686
03:21:51,320 --> 03:21:53,920
Speaker 10: it's cooled off now Onnesday, it's we that's hot, which

3687
03:21:53,959 --> 03:21:56,000
Speaker 10: is good, but it's every day at the moment.

3688
03:21:56,560 --> 03:21:57,160
Speaker 1: Well, and I.

3689
03:21:57,080 --> 03:22:01,520
Speaker 4: Guess for like context, cooled off means it's like load

3690
03:22:01,520 --> 03:22:04,199
Speaker 4: of mid nineties.

3691
03:22:03,200 --> 03:22:07,959
Speaker 10: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's still like it's still not

3692
03:22:08,160 --> 03:22:11,240
Speaker 10: safe to make that hike without water. People are often

3693
03:22:11,320 --> 03:22:13,920
Speaker 10: mugged right when they cross the border or sometimes before.

3694
03:22:14,320 --> 03:22:17,080
Speaker 10: Sometimes they get their bags stolen. That often involves them

3695
03:22:17,120 --> 03:22:19,520
Speaker 10: getting their water bottles stolen that they've taken with them,

3696
03:22:19,600 --> 03:22:22,000
Speaker 10: right makes that journey a lot more dangerous. They also

3697
03:22:22,040 --> 03:22:24,120
Speaker 10: get their phone stolen, so even if they need help,

3698
03:22:24,160 --> 03:22:27,000
Speaker 10: they can't call nine one one. Border Patrol sometimes has

3699
03:22:27,040 --> 03:22:29,480
Speaker 10: like rescue beacons that you can press them and it

3700
03:22:29,560 --> 03:22:33,400
Speaker 10: calls Border Patrol. On the route that we run for

3701
03:22:33,440 --> 03:22:34,959
Speaker 10: the back half of the day, there are none of

3702
03:22:34,959 --> 03:22:39,160
Speaker 10: those I saw, Like I know, I came back and

3703
03:22:38,879 --> 03:22:42,160
Speaker 10: then you know, I sort of tried to process my

3704
03:22:42,240 --> 03:22:43,800
Speaker 10: day and get on with my life when you do,

3705
03:22:43,959 --> 03:22:48,000
Speaker 10: and and I saw the presidential debate last night, and

3706
03:22:48,040 --> 03:22:49,760
Speaker 10: it just makes me so fucking angry. I mean, we

3707
03:22:49,760 --> 03:22:53,640
Speaker 10: shouldn't expect anymore from these people. They're politicians. They don't

3708
03:22:53,640 --> 03:22:54,920
Speaker 10: give a shit about you, they don't give a shit

3709
03:22:54,920 --> 03:22:57,960
Speaker 10: about me, and they certainly don't care about these poor,

3710
03:22:58,000 --> 03:23:02,400
Speaker 10: desperate people. And like, I understand that people want to

3711
03:23:02,480 --> 03:23:05,199
Speaker 10: vote for Kamala because maybe she's less bad than Trump,

3712
03:23:05,280 --> 03:23:08,400
Speaker 10: but like, I have a real fucking hard time thinking

3713
03:23:08,440 --> 03:23:10,840
Speaker 10: about the parents of the young man who died at

3714
03:23:10,840 --> 03:23:13,920
Speaker 10: the border. Yeah, having to deal with Okay, well, she's

3715
03:23:14,000 --> 03:23:16,400
Speaker 10: less bad than Trump. Cool, it doesn't bring their baby

3716
03:23:16,440 --> 03:23:21,280
Speaker 10: boy back, you know, Like and just seeing both of them, Like,

3717
03:23:21,920 --> 03:23:25,160
Speaker 10: the whole framing of the immigration discussion was how do

3718
03:23:25,200 --> 03:23:27,720
Speaker 10: we reduce numbers and make it harder. They didn't entertain

3719
03:23:27,840 --> 03:23:30,040
Speaker 10: for a moment that someone might come here because they've

3720
03:23:30,040 --> 03:23:32,160
Speaker 10: got nowhere else to go and they need to be safe,

3721
03:23:32,760 --> 03:23:35,000
Speaker 10: or because they want to work hard and have a

3722
03:23:35,000 --> 03:23:37,760
Speaker 10: better future for their family. There are a million reasons

3723
03:23:37,760 --> 03:23:39,360
Speaker 10: to come here, right. I came here to fucking do

3724
03:23:39,400 --> 03:23:41,200
Speaker 10: a PhD in Spanish history, and no one made me

3725
03:23:42,480 --> 03:23:44,440
Speaker 10: race my bike, No no one made me walk across

3726
03:23:44,440 --> 03:23:47,400
Speaker 10: the desert. You know. It's the reasons were a lot

3727
03:23:47,400 --> 03:23:51,039
Speaker 10: more valid than mine were. And like I know I guess,

3728
03:23:51,560 --> 03:23:53,320
Speaker 10: I guess we should take a commercial break.

3729
03:24:03,680 --> 03:24:05,080
Speaker 3: Okay, we're back.

3730
03:24:06,160 --> 03:24:09,120
Speaker 10: I guess I want to finish up. You told me

3731
03:24:09,160 --> 03:24:11,800
Speaker 10: a story about why you started volunteering, which I thought

3732
03:24:12,080 --> 03:24:13,760
Speaker 10: was really meaningful and I'd like people to hear it.

3733
03:24:13,879 --> 03:24:15,240
Speaker 10: Would you mind sharing that with everyone?

3734
03:24:15,680 --> 03:24:15,920
Speaker 4: Oh?

3735
03:24:16,000 --> 03:24:16,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, no problem.

3736
03:24:16,920 --> 03:24:21,200
Speaker 4: So my grandmother on my father's side came to the

3737
03:24:21,320 --> 03:24:26,680
Speaker 4: US from Panama to go to college. My grandma on

3738
03:24:26,760 --> 03:24:31,200
Speaker 4: my mother's side. My understanding is they originally came to

3739
03:24:31,240 --> 03:24:35,040
Speaker 4: the US because somewhere down the line they were German.

3740
03:24:35,680 --> 03:24:37,640
Speaker 4: One of them was a duke fell in love with

3741
03:24:38,000 --> 03:24:40,280
Speaker 4: you know, like a servant girl or something, you know

3742
03:24:40,360 --> 03:24:43,160
Speaker 4: that old story. Yeah, got ostracized from the family and

3743
03:24:43,400 --> 03:24:47,720
Speaker 4: fled to you know, the United States, and so like

3744
03:24:47,800 --> 03:24:50,800
Speaker 4: even though looking at me like, I'm a why does

3745
03:24:50,840 --> 03:24:52,119
Speaker 4: white can be freckles?

3746
03:24:52,120 --> 03:24:52,440
Speaker 16: And all?

3747
03:24:52,720 --> 03:24:52,879
Speaker 3: Right?

3748
03:24:53,000 --> 03:24:56,760
Speaker 4: Like my family it's immigrants like you go back, yeah,

3749
03:24:57,080 --> 03:25:00,880
Speaker 4: like you know, as we all are. And god, this

3750
03:25:01,120 --> 03:25:06,720
Speaker 4: was twenty nineteen. I didn't know what I was doing.

3751
03:25:07,720 --> 03:25:10,720
Speaker 4: I felt stuck in my job. I just kind of

3752
03:25:11,120 --> 03:25:14,280
Speaker 4: wanted to get away from my family for you know,

3753
03:25:14,959 --> 03:25:19,120
Speaker 4: lack of a better phrase, And I thought, hell why

3754
03:25:19,160 --> 03:25:21,560
Speaker 4: not the like why not the Peace Corps. Go do

3755
03:25:22,680 --> 03:25:26,320
Speaker 4: something good on the government's dime. And you know, see

3756
03:25:26,360 --> 03:25:28,680
Speaker 4: the world, it's you know, it's big, it's sexy, it's foreign.

3757
03:25:29,360 --> 03:25:31,800
Speaker 1: And so I went.

3758
03:25:32,280 --> 03:25:36,200
Speaker 4: I got placed in Swatini, which is a country in

3759
03:25:36,680 --> 03:25:43,320
Speaker 4: southern Africa, and I was in the youth development sector there.

3760
03:25:43,760 --> 03:25:45,000
Speaker 1: So I got placed.

3761
03:25:45,040 --> 03:25:47,840
Speaker 4: I was working at a high school there, and I

3762
03:25:47,879 --> 03:25:50,840
Speaker 4: was having a conversation one day with the religion teacher

3763
03:25:51,320 --> 03:25:55,119
Speaker 4: who just couldn't he could not understand the idea of

3764
03:25:55,680 --> 03:25:59,200
Speaker 4: like why we don't teach religion in high schools in

3765
03:25:59,360 --> 03:26:01,400
Speaker 4: the US. Like he's like, you know, how can you

3766
03:26:01,480 --> 03:26:03,879
Speaker 4: learn to understand somebody else's point of view if you're

3767
03:26:03,879 --> 03:26:07,280
Speaker 4: not allowed to learn about it. And so like talked

3768
03:26:07,280 --> 03:26:10,360
Speaker 4: about like how we value the concept of separation of

3769
03:26:10,440 --> 03:26:13,240
Speaker 4: church and state, and it just kind of got on

3770
03:26:13,280 --> 03:26:17,080
Speaker 4: the topic of different viewpoints between our two cultures like that,

3771
03:26:17,280 --> 03:26:23,800
Speaker 4: and this man looked at me and said, I feel

3772
03:26:23,840 --> 03:26:27,920
Speaker 4: so blessed that there is a country in this world,

3773
03:26:28,240 --> 03:26:32,520
Speaker 4: like the United States, where there's no poverty, nobody goes hungry,

3774
03:26:33,120 --> 03:26:37,240
Speaker 4: everybody has a job, and there are people like you

3775
03:26:38,000 --> 03:26:42,119
Speaker 4: willing to leave such a beautiful place to come here

3776
03:26:42,480 --> 03:26:45,959
Speaker 4: and help us, which you know, naturally, I was like, oh,

3777
03:26:46,000 --> 03:26:48,440
Speaker 4: like that's, you know, really nice of you to say.

3778
03:26:48,480 --> 03:26:50,680
Speaker 1: But you know, like in the United States, like we

3779
03:26:50,840 --> 03:26:52,600
Speaker 1: have people that.

3780
03:26:52,560 --> 03:26:57,320
Speaker 4: Go hungry, we you know, deal with poverty, homelessness, et cetera,

3781
03:26:57,320 --> 03:27:00,520
Speaker 4: et cetera. And I'll never forget this guy looked me

3782
03:27:00,600 --> 03:27:04,640
Speaker 4: dead in the eyes and just said like, oh, then

3783
03:27:05,080 --> 03:27:06,040
Speaker 4: why are you here?

3784
03:27:06,879 --> 03:27:10,959
Speaker 1: Why aren't you at home helping them?

3785
03:27:11,440 --> 03:27:14,879
Speaker 4: And it just kind of shattered me in this you know,

3786
03:27:14,959 --> 03:27:19,879
Speaker 4: like yeah, no, like you're right, Like I totally and

3787
03:27:19,920 --> 03:27:22,440
Speaker 4: completely joined the Peace Corps for like the super selfish

3788
03:27:22,440 --> 03:27:26,320
Speaker 4: reasons and so, like I said, I was there twenty nineteen,

3789
03:27:26,520 --> 03:27:28,280
Speaker 4: so I was there.

3790
03:27:28,360 --> 03:27:29,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if you were.

3791
03:27:29,520 --> 03:27:31,800
Speaker 4: The listeners heard about this thing called COVID and the

3792
03:27:31,800 --> 03:27:34,959
Speaker 4: pandemic that happened, But I was part of the global

3793
03:27:34,959 --> 03:27:37,960
Speaker 4: evacuation order that went out for Peace Corps. Came back

3794
03:27:38,000 --> 03:27:42,000
Speaker 4: to the US, moved around a little bit, and last

3795
03:27:42,120 --> 03:27:45,920
Speaker 4: year I was listening to your podcast at work. You

3796
03:27:45,959 --> 03:27:50,080
Speaker 4: interviewed a couple of people that do work with Borderland's

3797
03:27:50,120 --> 03:27:54,039
Speaker 4: Relief Collective and just kind of thought to myself, we like, shit,

3798
03:27:54,120 --> 03:27:56,280
Speaker 4: I live near there, Like I can carry stuff in

3799
03:27:56,320 --> 03:27:58,520
Speaker 4: a backpack, Like I know how to hike, you know,

3800
03:27:58,920 --> 03:28:01,280
Speaker 4: why not me? Why not go see how I can

3801
03:28:01,320 --> 03:28:04,640
Speaker 4: help out? And you know, it's been a year and

3802
03:28:04,720 --> 03:28:07,520
Speaker 4: some change at this point that I've been with the group,

3803
03:28:07,760 --> 03:28:10,560
Speaker 4: and you know, like it's not like I've got some

3804
03:28:11,520 --> 03:28:16,080
Speaker 4: big fancy degree in like international relations or anything like that.

3805
03:28:16,120 --> 03:28:17,800
Speaker 1: I'm just a I'm some guy.

3806
03:28:17,840 --> 03:28:21,560
Speaker 4: I'm a graphic I'm a graphic designer that can carry

3807
03:28:21,560 --> 03:28:24,400
Speaker 4: stuff at a backpack. Yeah, but you know that makes

3808
03:28:24,440 --> 03:28:25,959
Speaker 4: all the difference sometimes.

3809
03:28:26,120 --> 03:28:28,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just being willing.

3810
03:28:27,720 --> 03:28:30,880
Speaker 4: To go out there and you know, like put that

3811
03:28:31,440 --> 03:28:32,959
Speaker 4: compassion to you.

3812
03:28:32,879 --> 03:28:33,480
Speaker 1: Know, to work.

3813
03:28:34,000 --> 03:28:34,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3814
03:28:34,440 --> 03:28:37,879
Speaker 10: I think it's like we're just two dudes with the

3815
03:28:37,920 --> 03:28:40,320
Speaker 10: truck and like a good credit card to buy water.

3816
03:28:41,320 --> 03:28:45,199
Speaker 10: It doesn't take a brilliant so like command, I speak

3817
03:28:45,240 --> 03:28:48,280
Speaker 10: a couple of other languages, but often like maybe I'll

3818
03:28:48,280 --> 03:28:50,439
Speaker 10: make the image for the show of my Google Translate

3819
03:28:50,840 --> 03:28:55,240
Speaker 10: app for that day. Yeah, Like we we're just using

3820
03:28:55,280 --> 03:28:58,200
Speaker 10: the tools that most of us have, right, Like, and

3821
03:28:58,280 --> 03:29:00,280
Speaker 10: it doesn't have to be at the border. Obviously people

3822
03:29:00,280 --> 03:29:03,320
Speaker 10: listening on the border, but like things will be so

3823
03:29:03,600 --> 03:29:07,879
Speaker 10: much worse there if local folks didn't just take it

3824
03:29:07,959 --> 03:29:10,279
Speaker 10: upon themselves. To do the things that the state refuses

3825
03:29:10,320 --> 03:29:14,480
Speaker 10: to do. And like that applies to the unhoused population too,

3826
03:29:14,520 --> 03:29:16,840
Speaker 10: write like I know my friends were also carrying water

3827
03:29:16,920 --> 03:29:19,160
Speaker 10: for them this weekend because it was hot trying to

3828
03:29:19,160 --> 03:29:22,959
Speaker 10: get and the city shut down the Homelessness Resource Center

3829
03:29:23,160 --> 03:29:27,119
Speaker 10: because the temperatures were too high for the stuff, which

3830
03:29:27,200 --> 03:29:30,480
Speaker 10: is fucking just something else. But I don't think we

3831
03:29:30,520 --> 03:29:32,640
Speaker 10: should expect anymore from the state. That's not what it's for.

3832
03:29:32,760 --> 03:29:36,360
Speaker 10: It's not to keep us safe. It's to keep capital safe,

3833
03:29:36,400 --> 03:29:38,879
Speaker 10: it's to keep wealth safe. It's to keep a certain

3834
03:29:38,920 --> 03:29:41,760
Speaker 10: class of people faith. And it camouflages itself and all

3835
03:29:41,800 --> 03:29:45,320
Speaker 10: these institutions which say they're there to look after us,

3836
03:29:45,360 --> 03:29:47,040
Speaker 10: but like when it comes down to it, like when

3837
03:29:47,080 --> 03:29:49,680
Speaker 10: those ladies are lying on the dirt, it's just two

3838
03:29:49,720 --> 03:29:53,640
Speaker 10: toots in a truck kind of scrounge around for gatorade. Right,

3839
03:29:53,680 --> 03:29:57,800
Speaker 10: And like I want people listening. I know I harp

3840
03:29:57,840 --> 03:29:59,280
Speaker 10: on this a lot, but like, the only way that

3841
03:29:59,280 --> 03:30:03,119
Speaker 10: we fixed is it's not someone else, it's not posting.

3842
03:30:03,920 --> 03:30:06,240
Speaker 10: I would love it if you could donate, right, I mean,

3843
03:30:06,400 --> 03:30:08,240
Speaker 10: I'll include a link in the show. That'd be great,

3844
03:30:08,280 --> 03:30:09,720
Speaker 10: But I would love it so much more if you

3845
03:30:09,720 --> 03:30:13,560
Speaker 10: could do something wherever you are, Like, just don't think

3846
03:30:13,600 --> 03:30:16,879
Speaker 10: that anyone doing this is special. Like, of course the

3847
03:30:17,000 --> 03:30:19,640
Speaker 10: things that I think they're special, people enjoy spending time

3848
03:30:19,680 --> 03:30:23,560
Speaker 10: with them. But like, you could do it too. There's

3849
03:30:23,600 --> 03:30:28,879
Speaker 10: nothing that's inherently stopping you from doing it. And it

3850
03:30:28,920 --> 03:30:31,959
Speaker 10: doesn't matter who wins the election, right, it really doesn't matter.

3851
03:30:32,879 --> 03:30:35,360
Speaker 10: Every year that Joe Biden has been president, more people

3852
03:30:35,400 --> 03:30:37,520
Speaker 10: have died than the year before. And he was the

3853
03:30:37,560 --> 03:30:39,520
Speaker 10: guy who was supposed to be kind. He didn't even

3854
03:30:39,680 --> 03:30:43,400
Speaker 10: run on a harsh border policy. Harris is running on

3855
03:30:43,440 --> 03:30:46,320
Speaker 10: a half border policy. It's only going to get worse.

3856
03:30:46,480 --> 03:30:50,640
Speaker 10: She's even renegged on building more wall, like they are

3857
03:30:50,760 --> 03:30:53,320
Speaker 10: beginning to construct wall around her cumber in the places

3858
03:30:53,320 --> 03:30:55,560
Speaker 10: where we looked after people last winter. So that will

3859
03:30:55,600 --> 03:30:57,600
Speaker 10: push people to value of the moon where it is

3860
03:30:58,120 --> 03:31:02,000
Speaker 10: impassable ter rain. Yeah, more people will die in the cold,

3861
03:31:02,000 --> 03:31:03,640
Speaker 10: and more people will die in the heat, and I

3862
03:31:03,640 --> 03:31:05,320
Speaker 10: guess we'll probably be out there too. You're trying to

3863
03:31:05,360 --> 03:31:10,320
Speaker 10: help them, But I just want everyone listening, Like, I

3864
03:31:10,360 --> 03:31:14,280
Speaker 10: know we've covered the election a lot, it doesn't I

3865
03:31:14,280 --> 03:31:15,920
Speaker 10: don't want to tell you it doesn't matter I'm sure

3866
03:31:15,920 --> 03:31:18,560
Speaker 10: it matters, like it matters for my friends in Kurdistan

3867
03:31:18,600 --> 03:31:21,800
Speaker 10: who Trump fucking abandoned left to die after they gave

3868
03:31:22,040 --> 03:31:26,080
Speaker 10: thousands of their children to fight. Isis right? But even

3869
03:31:26,280 --> 03:31:30,400
Speaker 10: if Harris wins, like, donations went down so much in

3870
03:31:30,440 --> 03:31:33,560
Speaker 10: the Biden era compared to the Trump era, and people

3871
03:31:33,640 --> 03:31:38,240
Speaker 10: died in the desert, people died in Tijuana, right, because

3872
03:31:39,240 --> 03:31:42,360
Speaker 10: that's what this system does. But people stop caring when

3873
03:31:42,440 --> 03:31:44,760
Speaker 10: a lot of big commercial networks start reporting on it.

3874
03:31:45,320 --> 03:31:47,080
Speaker 10: And I would like you will still to care whoever

3875
03:31:47,120 --> 03:31:48,600
Speaker 10: wins the election. And I'd like you will still to

3876
03:31:48,640 --> 03:31:51,840
Speaker 10: care before the election. And the way you can show

3877
03:31:51,840 --> 03:31:54,240
Speaker 10: that you care is showing up for your community. Whatever

3878
03:31:54,280 --> 03:31:57,360
Speaker 10: it is, right, Harmelo isn't going to fucking solve homelessness either.

3879
03:31:58,560 --> 03:32:01,840
Speaker 10: So yeah, you got anything to leave people with if

3880
03:32:01,840 --> 03:32:04,080
Speaker 10: anything you want to you want to say, want to

3881
03:32:04,080 --> 03:32:05,520
Speaker 10: plug just.

3882
03:32:05,959 --> 03:32:09,039
Speaker 1: You know, order lands, relief, collective order kindness.

3883
03:32:10,360 --> 03:32:13,200
Speaker 4: Raphael's group, the Anhelez de Desierto.

3884
03:32:13,360 --> 03:32:17,039
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, you know, just if you can.

3885
03:32:17,240 --> 03:32:18,640
Speaker 4: Come out, like if you're in the area, if you

3886
03:32:18,640 --> 03:32:21,200
Speaker 4: can come out, you can help great, Like the more

3887
03:32:21,200 --> 03:32:24,520
Speaker 4: people that carry supplies, the more we can leave. If

3888
03:32:24,840 --> 03:32:28,080
Speaker 4: you're not in the area or you know, like hiking

3889
03:32:28,320 --> 03:32:32,480
Speaker 4: and carrying heavy things is not what you're into. Donating

3890
03:32:32,840 --> 03:32:37,359
Speaker 4: always super appreciated. I know, specifically Order Lands Relief Collective.

3891
03:32:37,520 --> 03:32:41,879
Speaker 4: Every single cent that is donated to us goes to

3892
03:32:42,280 --> 03:32:46,600
Speaker 4: supplies that we leave for migrants. And even if it's

3893
03:32:46,600 --> 03:32:51,400
Speaker 4: only a few dollars, I mean, like we're talking bottled water.

3894
03:32:51,520 --> 03:32:54,120
Speaker 4: I mean the sixteen gallons of water that we bought

3895
03:32:54,160 --> 03:32:57,920
Speaker 4: I think ended up running somewhere in ballpark like fifty bucks.

3896
03:32:57,959 --> 03:33:01,199
Speaker 4: Like yeah, you know, like it's it's water or gatorade.

3897
03:33:01,240 --> 03:33:04,120
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's you know, off brand gatorade. So like a

3898
03:33:04,480 --> 03:33:07,320
Speaker 4: few dollars can go a long way, and that long

3899
03:33:07,360 --> 03:33:09,879
Speaker 4: way could mean saving someone's life.

3900
03:33:10,080 --> 03:33:13,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, totally. So you know, whatever you can give I

3901
03:33:13,080 --> 03:33:18,480
Speaker 10: would be appreciated. I know our friend Rafael from Lochandelesto

3902
03:33:18,680 --> 03:33:21,560
Speaker 10: is his vehicle broke this weekend. He does search and rescue.

3903
03:33:21,879 --> 03:33:23,240
Speaker 10: I gave you got a few bucks and you want

3904
03:33:23,240 --> 03:33:26,000
Speaker 10: to pass him his way. It's Los and Hell's like

3905
03:33:26,080 --> 03:33:28,640
Speaker 10: the town del Desierto do or go put that on

3906
03:33:28,680 --> 03:33:31,520
Speaker 10: the link to but we'll put both those in the

3907
03:33:31,520 --> 03:33:35,879
Speaker 10: show notes. Please do whatever you can and yeah, hopefully

3908
03:33:35,879 --> 03:33:37,440
Speaker 10: next time I talk to you about border stuff, it'll

3909
03:33:37,480 --> 03:33:40,680
Speaker 10: be better than you. Thank you, Jons, Yeah, thanks mat.

3910
03:33:43,760 --> 03:33:44,000
Speaker 4: Hey.

3911
03:33:44,080 --> 03:33:47,200
Speaker 2: We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from

3912
03:33:47,200 --> 03:33:48,920
Speaker 2: now until the heat death of the Universe.

3913
03:33:49,840 --> 03:33:52,280
Speaker 15: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3914
03:33:52,480 --> 03:33:55,560
Speaker 15: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3915
03:33:55,640 --> 03:33:58,200
Speaker 15: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

3916
03:33:58,240 --> 03:34:02,200
Speaker 15: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast Us, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

3917
03:34:02,600 --> 03:34:04,520
Speaker 15: You can now find sources for It Could Happen Here,

3918
03:34:04,560 --> 03:34:07,520
Speaker 15: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.