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Speaker 1: Sweating. The sweat calculation is an interesting one, but like

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Speaker 1: it would go up when I'm in dance presence, Sweet

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Speaker 1: sweet sweat, sweat, sweat. This episode is brought to you

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Speaker 1: and spots. Trading involves risk and may not be appropriate

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Speaker 1: for all investors. Hi, and welcome back to Bloomberg Benchmark,

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Speaker 1: a podcast about the global economy. It is Thursday, January seven,

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Speaker 1: and I'm Tory Stillwell and economics reporter with Bloomberg News

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Speaker 1: in d C. And I am joined by my co

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Speaker 1: host Ao Today, our editor for Benchmark in Sanford, Cisco. Happy, Happy,

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Speaker 1: say pretty solid. I was in Atlanta. I got all

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Speaker 1: fancy for a wedding. Did it up real big? What

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Speaker 1: about you? I went skiing over Christmas, which was really fun.

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Speaker 1: We've been getting almost record snow I think in Tahoe.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it was amazing. Um when we drove up there,

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Speaker 1: it was right after a big storm, so it was

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Speaker 1: some of the best skiing I've done in a long time.

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Speaker 1: Well with it being New Year's uh, I personally love resolutions. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I think that they're so much fun, even though I

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Speaker 1: don't really keep them all the time. They're nice, a

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Speaker 1: nice way to like center yourself into the new year.

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Speaker 1: But some people are like really cynical about them and

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Speaker 1: think they're a total waste of time. I'm usually in

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Speaker 1: that camp. Um, what's your what's your new New Year's

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Speaker 1: resolution this year? So? Uh, I like in years past,

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Speaker 1: I would always the first day just like make a

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Speaker 1: list of ten resolutions. But last year I took a

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Speaker 1: different tack that I'm also replicating again this year. And

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Speaker 1: that's where I like give up a bad habit or

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Speaker 1: something that I want to tweak a little bit every

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Speaker 1: single month. So this month is uh, sober January. I

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Speaker 1: will be giving up alcohol. It has been pretty miserable

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Speaker 1: so far, the one week that we've enjoyed so far

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Speaker 1: of January. Yeah, exactly. At least it's not February, which

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Speaker 1: is giving up Chipotle, which is a pretty sad month.

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Speaker 1: And also like the shortest month, so give myself a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a break there. What about you, what

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Speaker 1: are you doing for? What are your resolutions? Well, um,

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Speaker 1: this makes me sound like a complete lame San Francisco hippie,

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Speaker 1: but it is to meditate seven times a week. Um.

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Speaker 1: I used to meditate a lot more, but I've recently

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Speaker 1: kind of fallen out of the habit, so I want

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Speaker 1: to redevelop this habit again. It's like one of those things,

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Speaker 1: you know, like running or anything else that's good for you.

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Speaker 1: I know it's good for me in the long run. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I'm really glad I did it once I did it,

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Speaker 1: but it's kind of hard for me to get myself

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Speaker 1: to do it beforehand. Yeah. Well, Twitter actually put out

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Speaker 1: a list this week of the most tweeted resolutions for

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Speaker 1: and let's see if any of ours made the list.

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Speaker 1: They are to get in shape is number one. Number

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Speaker 1: to eat healthier, three, be a better person, four, be nicer,

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Speaker 1: which seems kind of similar to number three. Number five,

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Speaker 1: learned something new, six, drink more water, seven be happy, Hey,

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Speaker 1: quit smoking, and I drink less alcohol. And to save money. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so a little bit of overlap there, But as we

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Speaker 1: both know and have witnessed in our own lives. Resolutions

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Speaker 1: are pretty hard to keep, and when we fail, it

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Speaker 1: can be sometimes be expensive. Let's take that top resolution,

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Speaker 1: for example, to get in shape. So if we walk

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Speaker 1: through it. You want to get in shape, so you

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Speaker 1: get a gym membership, and that's roughly fifty dollars a

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Speaker 1: month more in some cities less than others. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: then you decide you also need to get a fresh

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Speaker 1: pair of kicks, so you spend like a hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: on a new pair of running shoes. You get new

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Speaker 1: workout clothes another hundred dollars. Maybe you want a fitbit

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Speaker 1: like you have, so that's another hundred dollars. Or do

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Speaker 1: you have an Apple Watch? Now have you upgraded? I

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Speaker 1: have a fit Bit and um, what's called the Basis

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Speaker 1: watch that tracks not just your continuous heart rate, but

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Speaker 1: also how much you're sweating and your surface body temperature sweating.

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Speaker 1: The sweat calculation is an interesting one. Yeah, it would

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Speaker 1: go up when I'm in dance presence sweat sweat, sweet sweat. Anyways, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we we've we've we've spent all of our stuff

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Speaker 1: on getting in shape. But then say, we do all that,

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Speaker 1: and after a week or two, we get bored with

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Speaker 1: working out, We hate going to the the gym, a treadmill

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Speaker 1: is awful, and our commitment to the resolution fades and

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Speaker 1: we don't do it for the rest of the year.

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Speaker 1: That's like a thousand dollars over the course of a

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Speaker 1: year that we've wasted. Once you add all those things together,

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Speaker 1: and when you multiply that by all the thousands, probably

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Speaker 1: millions of people that this happens to, you've got quite

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Speaker 1: a big cost of society there. Yeah. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: lucky for us, there's now a growing body of research

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Speaker 1: in economics of all things, that helps you stick to

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Speaker 1: your resolutions. That's right, and beyond keeping us all from

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Speaker 1: needlessly blowing lots of money, Let's walk through what economics

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Speaker 1: has to do with keeping our resolutions and making you

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Speaker 1: meditate every day hockey. Well, you know, economics traditionally thought

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Speaker 1: about people as these rational, disciplined asians constantly per suing

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Speaker 1: their self interest, kind of like robots, and in that universe,

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Speaker 1: everyone would deliver on their New year's resolutions. Right, But

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Speaker 1: we all know that these resolutions are incredibly hard to keep,

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Speaker 1: even if we want to stick to them, even if

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Speaker 1: we know in our heads that exercising more, or meditating more,

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Speaker 1: or calling our parents more is good for us in

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Speaker 1: the long run. So there's this rising part of economics

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Speaker 1: called behavioral economics that recognizes us for the irrational and

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Speaker 1: often undisciplined humans that we are. And they are now

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Speaker 1: all these researchers who study how our behavior deviates from

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Speaker 1: what would be the rational thing to do, and by

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Speaker 1: understanding all those quirks, we can come up with ways

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Speaker 1: to save us from ourselves. Exactly. For today's show, we

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Speaker 1: are going to distill the best research into seven different tricks,

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Speaker 1: and we have a great expert to guide us along

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Speaker 1: the way. Katie Milkman is a professor from the University

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Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania is Wharton Business School, and she is on

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Speaker 1: the frontier of this research on self control failures. Hello, Katie, Hi,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. It's my pleasure

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Speaker 1: to be here. Thanks for having me, Katy. I. I

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Speaker 1: always thought New Year's resolutions were kind of this arbitrary thing,

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Speaker 1: but apparently there's actual evidence that the start of the

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Speaker 1: year is a great time to set these goals. Um,

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Speaker 1: can you tell us about your research into fresh starts. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I've spent some time with a couple of wonderful collaborators,

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Speaker 1: hanschen Die at Washington University in St. Louis and Jason

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Speaker 1: Reese's here with me at Wharton, thinking about fresh starts

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Speaker 1: and studying them. And what we found is that there

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Speaker 1: are these moments in our lives that feel like new beginnings,

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Speaker 1: and New Year's is one of them, but there are

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Speaker 1: lots of others. So the start of a new week,

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Speaker 1: or the beginning of a new month, or following a

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Speaker 1: birthday or holiday, a new baby that's right, having a

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Speaker 1: new baby, um, getting married or getting engaged, starting a

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Speaker 1: new jobs, starting at a new school would be other

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Speaker 1: moments that feel like the beginning of new cycles. And

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Speaker 1: at all of those times, we feel like we have

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Speaker 1: a clean slate and it's a great opportunity for us

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Speaker 1: to make changes in our lives. We have extra motivation.

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Speaker 1: And we've seen this play out in lots of different settings.

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Speaker 1: But a couple of my favorites are Google searches for

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Speaker 1: the term diet spike at these fresh chart moments, and

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Speaker 1: you can you can imagine why. In some cases it

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Speaker 1: might be that we behave badly before these fresh start

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Speaker 1: moments in some cases, but we see it also with

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Speaker 1: gym attendance and with goal setting. People set more goals

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Speaker 1: and that's in health relevant context and health irrelevant ones

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Speaker 1: like goals around finance and education at these fresh dart moments. Interesting.

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Speaker 1: Interesting is it that we set these goals at these

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Speaker 1: fresh start moments um more frequently or is it that

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Speaker 1: they're actually effective when we set these goals at these

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Speaker 1: particular times. It's a fantastic question. So our research is

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Speaker 1: focused on showing that people are more motivated, and so

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Speaker 1: we set the goals, but we also go to the

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Speaker 1: gym and so um, so people are executing more and

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Speaker 1: they're also planning more. So it seems to be a combination.

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Speaker 1: And of course, if you don't have a goal, and

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Speaker 1: if you don't start, you can't be effective. You gotta

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Speaker 1: start somewhere exactly. So that was our first strategy, to

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Speaker 1: use these memorable occasions as time to set new goals. UM.

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Speaker 1: Our second strategy here is what you have called temptation bundling. UM.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk to our listeners about what this is?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely this is one of my favorite tricks and I

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Speaker 1: devised it to trick myself actually, so I realized I

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Speaker 1: had two problems. Um, at the end of a long day,

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Speaker 1: I found that I really wasn't motivated enough to get

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Speaker 1: myself to the gym. It just sounded like a horrible

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Speaker 1: way to spend time, even though I knew I should

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Speaker 1: do it. And at the end of a long day,

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Speaker 1: I also found myself wanting to waste time binge watching

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Speaker 1: junk TV shows and reading what was your worst guilty

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Speaker 1: pleasure t V show? Oh? No, well, now I have

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Speaker 1: to insult someone, some producer. Um, let's see when I

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Speaker 1: struggle with. Now is scandal? I had a lot of

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Speaker 1: trouble with loss. Oh I love these shows. Gossip Girls

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Speaker 1: another one I've struggled with. But I should probably be

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Speaker 1: writing my next paper, working on on grading students or

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Speaker 1: helping doctoral students develop, rather than spending time watching these

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Speaker 1: TV shows at a rapid pace. So I have these

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Speaker 1: two problems, and I realized that perhaps I could actually

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Speaker 1: solve them simultaneously. What if I, for instance, only let

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Speaker 1: myself watch the next episode of my favorite low brow

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Speaker 1: TV show while I was exercising at the gym, I'd

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Speaker 1: stop wasting time at home watching those shows, and I'd

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Speaker 1: start craving trips to the gym to find out what

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Speaker 1: happened next. So I've done some research on this concept.

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Speaker 1: I call it temptation bundling. I've done it actually with

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Speaker 1: audio novels which I personally use. My favorite one ever

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Speaker 1: is The Hunger Games, which bundles beautifully with exercise. That's

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Speaker 1: great trilogy, lots of um cliffhangers which keep you coming

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Speaker 1: back for more craving the next trip to the gym.

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Speaker 1: And we found that not only is it an effective

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Speaker 1: means of increasing gym attendants to give people access to

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Speaker 1: tempting audio novels that they can only listen to when

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Speaker 1: working out, as opposed to giving them other equally valuable gifts,

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Speaker 1: but people actually value it. So one amazing thing that

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Speaker 1: we found is that at the end of our study,

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Speaker 1: people are actually willing to pay us for temptation bundling devices.

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Speaker 1: That's what we call them. So people who owned iPods

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Speaker 1: that were loaded with tempting audio novels would actually pay

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Speaker 1: us to take away those iPods their own possessions unlock

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Speaker 1: them at the gym so they could only access the

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Speaker 1: tempting content while they were exercising. Wow, that's amazing and

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Speaker 1: that's not what traditional economics would predict, right, for people

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Speaker 1: to pay someone else to restrict their future options, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Traditional economic theory would say people shouldn't pay for that

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Speaker 1: kind of restriction, but we found about sixty percent of

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Speaker 1: people would pay for this type of restriction. Let's uh,

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Speaker 1: let's go ahead and talked about our third strategy, which

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Speaker 1: is is related here is putting money on the line.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned commitment devices. Act. I feel like you

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Speaker 1: told me about your experience with something along these lines

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Speaker 1: not too long ago, when you were here visiting me

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Speaker 1: in d C. Yeah, that's right. So about two years ago,

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Speaker 1: I was using this app that used a GPS tracker

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Speaker 1: to let you check into a gym or track your

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Speaker 1: runs outside. And so you you set this goal of

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Speaker 1: you made your goal, you earned this small amount of money,

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Speaker 1: and every week you didn't make your goal, they automatically

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Speaker 1: deducted ten dollars from your bank account. So the fear

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Speaker 1: of losing this money really kept me going for a while.

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Speaker 1: It's a fantastic example of a commitment device, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of research showing that these are highly effective.

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Speaker 1: So any any situation where you're able to put money

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Speaker 1: on the line that you'll forfeit if you fail to

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Speaker 1: achieve your goal is called the commitment device. And this

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Speaker 1: is another situation where traditional economics would say, who would

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Speaker 1: ever do that? Why would you ever put money on

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Speaker 1: the line, Why would you want to punish yourself? But

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Speaker 1: self flagellation turns out to be really motivating, and so

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Speaker 1: there's some studies that have shown it is effective for

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Speaker 1: helping people lose weight if they can put money on

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Speaker 1: the line that they'll forfeit if they fail to lose weight.

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Speaker 1: In fact, one of my co authors and colleagues here

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Speaker 1: at Wharton, Kevin Volpe, has led one particularly impactful study

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Speaker 1: on that. There's also work showing it helps with smoking cessation.

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Speaker 1: So if you give people the opportunity to create an

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Speaker 1: account where they can put money that they'll forfeit if

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Speaker 1: they haven't successfully quit smoking in six months, that significantly

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Speaker 1: increases smoking cessation rates. So those are a couple of

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Speaker 1: important settings where it's been studied. And there's a great

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Speaker 1: website that I like to promote because I think it's

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Speaker 1: so fun and so effective called um stick dot com

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Speaker 1: S t I c K K two ks dot com

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Speaker 1: and you can go there and actually set up commitment

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Speaker 1: contract acts around any kind of goal that you hope

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Speaker 1: to achieve. You can put money on the line and

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Speaker 1: choose a referee who will report back to the site

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Speaker 1: about whether or not you've actually stuck to your guns

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Speaker 1: and achieved the goal, and you can do fun things

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Speaker 1: with the money. For instance, they have anti charities, so

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Speaker 1: they have charities that are on either side of contentious issues, like,

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Speaker 1: for instance, um the National Rifle Association versus a gun

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Speaker 1: control charitable organization. You can pick your poison which of

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Speaker 1: those would make you angrier to donate to, and then

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Speaker 1: so you'd allocate your money to whichever of those painful

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Speaker 1: and punishing. Well, let's take a short break for now

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Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor, and when we get

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Speaker 1: back we'll go through smart strategies for how to keep

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Speaker 1: appropriate for all investors. So, Katie, our fourth strategy is

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Speaker 1: actually planned out the specifics of how you're going to

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Speaker 1: implement your plan. Can you tell us about this? Yeah? Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: There's some really fantastic research out there on the importance

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Speaker 1: of having concrete if then plans to help you follow

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Speaker 1: throwing your goals. And really the leader in this work

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Speaker 1: as as someone named Peter Goldwitzer at n y U.

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Speaker 1: He's done dozens of studies showing how important it is

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Speaker 1: to have those if then plans. UM. But I've done

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Speaker 1: some follow up work my self on this, and so

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you about one of my own studies because

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Speaker 1: it's near and dear to me and also close to

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Speaker 1: top of mind UM right now. And that is a

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Speaker 1: study we did where We show that simply encouraging people

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Speaker 1: to write down the date and time when they intended

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Speaker 1: to engage in a healthy behavior. We looked at this

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Speaker 1: in the context of getting a flu shot was incredibly

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Speaker 1: effective at increasing follow through rates. And the idea here

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Speaker 1: is that when you have that kind of an if

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Speaker 1: then plan, you've thought through exactly the date and time

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Speaker 1: when you intend to follow through. First, you've made a

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Speaker 1: commitment to yourself, and and that is something that it's

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable to break. Lots of research has shown it's uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: Not to follow through when we make commitments makes us

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Speaker 1: feel like flip floppers. Um. Second, you've thought more deeply

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Speaker 1: about it, so it's embedded more deeply in memory. And

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Speaker 1: you you've also associated a queue with follow through. So

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Speaker 1: if you've chosen a date and time, for instance, when

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Speaker 1: you'll get a flu shot, now, if you look at

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Speaker 1: your calendar and look at your watch and realize it's

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Speaker 1: that date and time, you're more likely to remember this

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Speaker 1: is what I said, I'd i'd follow through and get

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Speaker 1: my flu shot, for instance. It can also help us

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Speaker 1: anticipate obstacles along the way. So, for instance, if I

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Speaker 1: realized I want to get a flu shot on Friday

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Speaker 1: at noon, I might think, well, I better line up

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Speaker 1: childcare and come up with a transportation strategy and so

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Speaker 1: those things won't trip me up when Friday comes around

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Speaker 1: and I want to get that flu shot. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm really seeing the benefits of this one specifically.

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Speaker 1: So I'm running the Paris Marathon in April, and this

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Speaker 1: is my second marathon. I want to do better than

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Speaker 1: the first one, and I had a training plan for

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Speaker 1: the first one, but I didn't adhere to it very

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Speaker 1: well and only ended up running like thirteen miles before

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Speaker 1: the marathon. So that was kind of a tragedy. But

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Speaker 1: did you make it? I did somehow. That's impressive. But

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Speaker 1: this time I obviously want to do a lot better.

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Speaker 1: So um, I am using the Nike Running app and

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Speaker 1: it has planned out every single day what I should

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Speaker 1: be doing up until the day of the marathon. And

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Speaker 1: it's been really nice because I get like a check

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Speaker 1: mark every single time it tracks a run. And I know,

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Speaker 1: like when I was thinking about what I was going

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Speaker 1: to do when I went home for Christmas and New Years,

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Speaker 1: for example, I knew it's going to be much harder

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Speaker 1: because I was going to be on a loser schedule,

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Speaker 1: but it was great to have those specific distances on

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Speaker 1: the specific days that I could just plan my whole

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Speaker 1: day around, even a week or two in advance. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's fantastic, And that sounds like that app is not

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Speaker 1: only taking advantages of advantage of the benefits of planning,

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Speaker 1: but also how powerful it can be to set goals

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Speaker 1: and have concrete, achievable but challenging goals that you set

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Speaker 1: up for yourself, and and having plans about how to

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Speaker 1: achieve those as them of critical importance as well. Well.

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Speaker 1: I think our fifth strategy here is related to what

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Speaker 1: not to do, which is to set up a backup plan.

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Speaker 1: Why can't we have a plan? B Katie. That's a

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Speaker 1: great question, and I wouldn't always say you shouldn't. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you actually do want to plan. It's important to have

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Speaker 1: those in some contexts. But I've done some research with

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Speaker 1: a wonderful collaborator named g Haitian at the University of

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin who thought a lot about this when she was

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Speaker 1: uh finishing her doctoral program and she was thinking about

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Speaker 1: what she would do if she didn't get an academic

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Speaker 1: job and realized that if she made a backup plan

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Speaker 1: for herself. For instance, if she told herself, you know

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be okay, I'll just go work in industry

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Speaker 1: and I'll start looking for jobs at companies that might

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Speaker 1: be exciting, that might actually diminish her motivation to really

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Speaker 1: tackle all the things she needed to do to succeed

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Speaker 1: on the academic job market. So having a backup plan

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Speaker 1: or a fallback strategy in case your plan A fails

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Speaker 1: or go south. While it may reduce uncertainty and make

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Speaker 1: you feel better, it also may reduce your motivation to

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Speaker 1: achieve your primary goals. And we've shown that in a

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Speaker 1: bunch of our research together. That's right, So just thinking

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Speaker 1: about failure increases your chances of failure. It's not just

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Speaker 1: thinking about failure, it's just thinking about an alternative strategy

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Speaker 1: you would deploy in case of failure and doing that,

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Speaker 1: giving yourself that backup plan, giving yourself that cushion makes

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Speaker 1: you less motivated to tackle your primary goal. Amazing um.

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Speaker 1: Our sixth strategy here is to post your nears resolution

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Speaker 1: on Twitter like we talked about earlier Tory, or on Facebook.

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Speaker 1: Katie tell us why this is effective, Absolutely well, it's

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Speaker 1: it's simply a shaming strategy, right, So that turns out

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Speaker 1: making your goals public makes you feel a lot worse

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Speaker 1: about not following through. And there's some great work by

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Speaker 1: um Holland Beck and collaborators actually from the showing how

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Speaker 1: important it is to make your goals public and how

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Speaker 1: that motivates us to work harder. So if you put

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Speaker 1: it on Twitter, if you put it on Facebook, if

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Speaker 1: you tell your boss, someone who you really care about

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Speaker 1: thinking highly of you, and then know that they're going

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Speaker 1: to check up on you, you're much more likely to

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Speaker 1: follow through. That really increases motivation. And Katie, if all

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Speaker 1: these tricks still don't keep you on track and we

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Speaker 1: end up veering off, let's say around maybe mid March

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Speaker 1: is all hope lost? All hope is not lost. This

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Speaker 1: work we've done on the fresh start effects, as you

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Speaker 1: can find a new fresh start opportunity and start again.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, you might even think about reminding yourself

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Speaker 1: or your loved ones of dates that I feel like

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Speaker 1: fresh arts that they might have forgotten about. So we've

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Speaker 1: shown that reminding people, for instance, that March is the

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Speaker 1: first day of spring inspires renewed motivation and and encourages

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Speaker 1: people to start tackling their roles anew on that date.

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Speaker 1: So is that our seventh strategy. Seventh strategy is to

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Speaker 1: go back to the first strategy when in doubt, start again, right,

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Speaker 1: start all over. Wonder I love it well, I'm setting

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Speaker 1: my calendar reminders now, Kitty, do you have any last

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Speaker 1: words of advice for listeners who are about to go

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Speaker 1: and implement all these tricks. One one piece of advice

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Speaker 1: is not to be disheartened for sure if you if

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Speaker 1: you fail. I think that almost all of us el

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Speaker 1: to achieve our goals, whether they're resolutions, made it New

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Speaker 1: Year's or some other time of year when we set

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Speaker 1: ambitious schools. But that's just part of the journey. And

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Speaker 1: you have to pick yourself up and try again, recognize

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Speaker 1: that there are new opportunities at every corner, and and

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00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 1: just don't let yourself, don't let yourself get down, keep

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Speaker 1: trying and keep trying these strategies and you'll get there.

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Speaker 1: And Katie, we would be totally remiss if we didn't

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Speaker 1: ask you what your resolutions were for the year. I

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Speaker 1: knew that was coming. And my husband, if he's listening,

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Speaker 1: will be very happy to hear that. Um My, my

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Speaker 1: big resolution is to stop checking email after nine pm

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Speaker 1: and just relax. Great one. Oh I like that one

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Speaker 1: a lot. We'll see how I do well. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us, Kat, This has been great

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Speaker 1: and put all my strategies to work. A sap. Oh

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Speaker 1: my pleasure. Thanks again for having me. It's been It's

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Speaker 1: been a lot of fun and thanks to you all

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Speaker 1: for listening to Bloomberg Benchmark. We'll be back next week.

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Speaker 1: Until then, you can find us on the bloom Burgs

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00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 1: terminal and Bloomberg dot Com, as well as on iTunes, podcast, Stitcher,

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00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: Google Play, et cetera. And while you're there, please take

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00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: a minute to rate and review the show. Some more

419
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 1: listeners can find us and let us know what you

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00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 1: thought of the show. You can talk to us and

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00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter, Atto seven and Tory stillwell, Happy

422
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: New Year, and see you next week. We're proud of

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Speaker 1: our new and growing suite of original podcasts, all designed

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Speaker 1: to help you navigate the complexities of business, financial markets,

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Speaker 1: and the global economy. In addition to Bloomberg Benchmark, which

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Speaker 1: you're listening to now, don't miss Odd Lots, a deep

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Speaker 1: with our Mergers and Acquisitions reporter Alex Sherman, looking at

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Speaker 1: a breakdown of the biggest deals and giving you an

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Speaker 1: inside peek into core brit board rooms. All three shows

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Speaker 1: are available on iTunes, SoundCloud, pocket casts for Android, Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: out and subscribe today. This episode was brought to you

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Speaker 1: by nate X. You know, any long term investment is

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