WEBVTT - Can Elon’s ‘America Party’ Dream Come True? 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:07.000 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:10.559 Let me tell you we have a new star. A 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:12.320 star is born Elon. 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:14.640 Juson Kennedy. 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.160 He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus. 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:18.480 Of our age. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.040 Holy, his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:21.800 I feel for the guy. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.279 I would say ninety eight percent really appreciate what he does. 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:28.760 But those two percent that are nasty today, I'll pay 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:29.840 in four post. 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.280 We are meant for great things in the United States 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.560 of America, and Elon reminds. 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:34.600 Us of that. 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.640 I'm very disappointed in Elon. I've helped Elon a lot. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.000 Welcome to Elon, a Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:55.560 It's Tuesday, July eighth. I'm your host, David Papadopolos. Okay, America, 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.960 are you ready for the America Party? Elon Musk appareently 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.960 thinks you are launching the third Party late last week 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:07.240 and making bold declarations about upending the US political order 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:10.640 and what amounts to a dramatic escalation of his feud 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.760 with President Donald Trump. So we're going back to DC 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.880 to bring in another one of our star political reporters, 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.880 Nancy Cook, to get into the nitty gritty with me 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:24.440 and Elon inks stalwart Max Chafkin. Hello to you both. 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.840 Hey, David, Hi, David, Hi Max. Thanks for having me. 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:31.480 Yeah, Nancy, you know, thanks for coming back. It's been 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.600 a while, it's been too long. Now listen. If Elon's 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.360 politics are the yin well, then Tesla and its wobbly 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:40.520 share price is the yang. By the way, I actually 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:42.360 have no idea if this actually makes any sense, but 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.119 I'm gonna go with it. In with Max, you sort 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.600 of yeah, sure, well it's close enough, yeah, good enough 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:50.000 for rock and roll. And we'll bring in Esha Day 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:52.800 to talk about the growing ang swirling in the market 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:57.400 as Musk wades right back into politics. Okay, now, Nancy, 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.360 so with your colleague there in Washington, Josh Green, we 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:04.440 had previewed this last week, but then the big beautiful 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.040 bill got final approval in Congress and signed into law 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:11.160 by Trump on the fourth of July, and Musk then 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:15.080 announces the formation of the America Party the very next day. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.320 So tell us here, what do we need to know 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:22.080 about the America Party And what as you see it, 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:24.480 do the prospects look like for this thing? 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.680 Well, so Elon Musk was not happy with the tax bill, 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.160 which I think that you guys have talked about extensively, 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:34.440 and also hasn't been happy with the tariffs, and so 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.799 he has broken with Trump and his advisors on some 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:41.880 very key policy areas and then has threatened to start 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:45.920 this third political party on X. And so far the 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:47.760 idea just lives on X. 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.480 And you use the term threat. Is that really all 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:52.240 it's still is at this point a threat? 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.480 Yes, that's all it is. I mean, creating a third 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:59.840 political party is a huge heavy lift, and not just 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.880 heavy lift initially, it's a sustained heavy lift. 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.840 What are some of the mechanics of this heavy lifting? 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.040 Sure, so it would require a ton of money. He 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.239 has that, but you know, does he want to you know, 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.960 invest that money for the long term to make an 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.320 effect in both the midterms and the twenty twenty eight 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:21.519 presidential election or does he need to focus on his companies? 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.799 So money is one? Two is his attention span? 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:25.480 You know? 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.920 Sure he is threatening Trump and Trump officials about this 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.600 on X. But to create a third political party, you 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:37.480 have to register with a federal election commission. You have 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.520 to go to each individual state and make sure that 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.880 your party is registered in each political state. Like you know, 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.760 there are some political consultants, I'm sure in DC who 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.360 are salivating at the idea of taking Elon's money and 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:54.400 doing this, But to actually do it, it's so much 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:56.720 effort in all these states to do it, and there's 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.440 so much paperwork, and so, you know, in addition to 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.720 the money, question is does he have sort of this 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.760 sustained attention span to do this. And then the other 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:09.000 thing is that we have never really seen a successful 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.280 third party. You know, Ross Perrot has tried it in 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:16.280 the past, Andrew Yang tried it, Eddie Roosevelt, yeah, exactly, 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.719 No Labels has tried it, but we've never seen like Wallace. Sure, 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:25.359 but we've never seen like a really successful bid for 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:27.919 a third party. This is sort of a threat that 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:28.720 he's making. 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:34.680 That is true. But Teddy Roosevelt and the Bull Moose Party, 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.360 I believe, and Ross Perro and whatever the hell the 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.800 name of his party was, they did very much affect 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:42.840 those elections. 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.800 Sure, there is no question that it could affect the election, 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.559 and it could you know, sort of siphon off votes 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.600 for a Prima Democrat or Republican party. Like Americans are 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:57.200 very unhappy with the political system at this point. But 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.400 I think it's just like, does he have the attention 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.120 span and the money to do it? You know, for 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.920 a while, because really the next marker would be the midterms, 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.360 the twenty twenty six mid terms, when Republicans could lose 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:13.480 the House. That's sort of what's up for grabs. Then 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:17.480 and then the twenty twenty eight election, the presidential election. 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.280 You know, assuming Trump doesn't try to say a third term, 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:23.919 which would require him changing the constitution, but let's not 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.720 put it past him. It will be a totally open election. 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:29.000 There will be people running on the Republican side and 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.000 people on the Democratic side, and I think it will 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.640 be a very crowded field. And so, you know, does 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.359 Musk want to put up a candidate for that? You know, 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:38.920 I think that that's a ways off, but you know, 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.440 I think that there are certainly these conversations happening. 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:46.279 Yeah, so Max, this is something that Josh Green also raised, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:51.080 the attention span issue, the stick to itiveness sort of dubious, 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.960 like Nancy is and Joshing General has a very grim 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:58.320 outlook on the future of the America Party. But it's 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.200 curious to me that they both raised that question from 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.520 afar and I get it at some level because the 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.800 guy just bounces around all over the place, and yet 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.720 at the same time, it strikes me that you doubt him, 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.960 you question him and his stick toitiveness on something that 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.799 he starts obsessing about, and you can get burned. 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:18.279 Right, Yeah, it's true. 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.920 And you know, some of what Musk has said over 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.799 the last couple of days has suggested that he's thinking 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.120 about this in the same way that he's thinking about 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.599 these big bets. He keeps reposting these comments from fans 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:31.480 that say, like. 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.000 They doubted he could start space X and he did. 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.520 You know, so this is like his next act. 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.520 People forget though, that Musk has threatened to start lots 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.719 of that he never actually followed such a so he 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.080 threatened to start like a news outlet, or he's done 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.479 it a few times, so, you know, made various threats 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:51.360 about media. You know, even give you well he did, 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.560 You're right, he did by X. But he said he 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:55.680 was starting this thing called Pravda a few years ago 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.080 and that never happened. It's not like he never sort 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.160 of flakes out on it. In fact, he flakes out 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:02.520 on threats that he makes on X. 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:03.840 What's just hit rich. 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:04.800 I don't know. 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.880 Now obviously, the like sort of maximalist version of this, 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:12.480 which is like he finds, like I don't like, you know, 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.800 four hundred congressional candidates and goes through the very hard, 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.040 very boring, probably humbling work of trying to get these 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:22.960 people on ballots in individual districts. It's this is what 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.280 Nancy's talking about. It would take forever, it would be 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.400 very expensive. These candidates would also have to raise a 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.640 ton of money from outside. It would just be like 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.680 a very messy thing, pretty much the opposite of like 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:38.679 flying into Butler for an hour and enjoying the fun 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.920 of a shop rally. But I do wonder what if 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:45.240 something in between happens, right, and Musk has already floated 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.600 various versions of this, like he could just like fund 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.800 a handful of Republican primary challenges, call it the America Party, 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.440 like not actually file with the FEC, but just say, like, 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.880 you know, that's what this effort is, and just act 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:02.120 like a normal kind of right wing mega donor attempting 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.400 essentially to drag you know, the MAGA coalition to the 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:10.400 right and also probably in the direction of subsidies, you know, 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:11.240 for his companies. 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.360 So like the Tea Party is a wing of the 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.240 Republican Party, so too with the America Party. That's what 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.960 I'm saying now, Nancy, are you familiar with the term 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:23.520 man moot? 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:24.280 I am not. 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.920 Oh that's our version of taco. It's Musk always makes 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.400 up with Trump. So it's this idea, and I feel 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.720 like you are even buying into it in this answer. 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:35.240 It's this idea that like. 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:37.280 Yeah, don't don't tell her what. 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:43.000 He's talking a big game, but he's not really gonna 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.079 follow through, you know, and we kind of saw this. 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.400 He's got a lot more to lose than Trump does. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.600 But I gotta say this, Max, this is my point here. 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:54.200 Man moot's not right now. It's a looking a little rough. 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.840 I actually think it's looking a little bit more like twamum, 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.480 what is that? Just that's me moood backwards? Right, But 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:04.240 you're still all in on that mood. 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:04.480 No. 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:08.360 I mean, I just think that the force pushing Musk 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:12.200 and Trump together remains, and like you see it even 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.120 in the way that Trump is attacking Musk, like he 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.520 has like insulted Musk a few times, but it doesn't 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.000 feel like and maybe Nancy, maybe I'm just you know, 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.000 failing to appreciate this. But like it feels like he 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.520 hasn't used his like meanest insults yet. He's also focused 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.840 on the third party, not as this like hideous affront, 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.839 but he's just sort of said, it's impractical, this is 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.400 the way the system is. It feels like he's pulling 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.760 his punches a little bit and avoiding giving Musk the 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.240 full double barreled you know, insult canon that he sometimes 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:44.320 reserves for his enemies. 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.440 It's always been a two party system, and I think 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.920 starting a third party just adds to confusion. It really 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.720 seems to have been developed for two parties. Third parties have. 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.360 Never worked, so he can have fun with it, but 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:57.959 I think it's ridiculous. 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:02.000 Well, Trump also just historic, like does get mad at people. 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.600 But I would say one interesting thing about him and 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.040 he will attack them and he can be vicious, is 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.240 there are very few people that he like the Bridges 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.920 are totally burned. You know, he was furious with Steve 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.080 Bannon when Steve Bannon left the White House during the 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:17.959 first term. Now they talk. You know, Steve Bannon was 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.199 at lunch at the White House, you know, a few 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.439 days before Trump bomb Durant. Trump is willing to make 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:25.800 up with people, like I think, much more so than 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.160 people realize, and so I could see them one hundred 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.320 percent making up. I also just want to make the 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:36.439 point that Elon doing this, you know, also runs the 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.719 risk of just really alienating Republican voters who are completely 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.120 beholden to Trump, and like, if they're going to pick 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.000 someone Trump versus Elon, they're going to pick Trump. I mean, 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.600 Trump is not just like a political figure or president, 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:53.040 do you know, He's almost like a movement figure in 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.120 terms of politics. I mean, people just feel so strongly 0:10:56.120 --> 0:11:00.240 about him. His supporters, his detractors also feel strongly that 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:02.840 I just think, you know, Musk would not just have 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.320 to take on the mechanics of the third party and 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.079 the money and the time and the attention, but also 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:12.479 just take on sort of the cult of Trump's personality. 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:16.280 You know. 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:20.239 I've seen Nancy brought up these political consultants like salivating 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.480 over the chance to take Elon Musk's money, and I 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.240 uctually see some of this slipping out into public. Andrew 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:27.760 Yang has been tweeting at Musk. Mark Cuban has been 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.920 tweeting at Musk. These consultants are all talking about how 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.000 great an idea a third party is. But most of 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.680 these people are talking about a centrist third party, which 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.360 is not what Elon Musk is talking about. He's talking 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.600 about like a far right political party. Yes, all right, 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.319 what is his complaints, Like, what are his policy positions? Well, 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:50.120 his policy position is that we need to drastically cut 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.080 the deficit. Essentially, it's not that the Big Beautiful Bill 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:56.200 is bad because it cut Medicaid, which is what the 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.640 centrists think and which actually might be a credible position 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:01.800 from which to start trying to build some kind of 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.880 political movement. It's that they didn't cut enough. He's called 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.480 social Security a Ponzi scheme on the Joe Rogan Show. 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:11.720 He is not in sort of the mainstream of like 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.679 what centrist voters think. His views are sort of out there. 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.480 They're all over the place, and he's attacking Trump from 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:18.840 the right. 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:23.720 Okay, So that is a fair point that saying we 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:26.640 got to go harder at social Security and Medicare and 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:30.400 Medicaid is not a centrist view. But Nancy's saying that 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.679 the debt is out of control and our deficits are 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.600 out of control. That's not far right politics, is it. 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.360 That's just not a view that is in vogue right 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.040 now in Washington, I would say broadly. And it's not 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.640 something that voters are caring about. And talking about cutting 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:48.120 social security regardless of party is like the third rail 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.360 for voters. Like old people want their social security. They 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.920 don't want to support some political figure who talks about 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.160 cutting it or even changing it. I mean that's why 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:01.040 Doje I think was so unpopular. That's not a winning position. 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:01.680 Yeah. 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.840 I mean we're seeing like a little mini illustration of 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.880 how what a headache doses is going to be both 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:09.720 for the White House but also maybe even more so 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.760 for Elon Musk with this tragedy in Texas right like 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.280 one of the subplots. And I think we're I don't 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.520 think we know yet, but you're starting to see reports 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:22.400 about was Noah the Weather Service essentially understaff? Did that 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.960 contribute to not predicting? Like there's just like a lot 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:27.040 of ways in which. 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.480 An understaff because potentially they were gutted by Doge. 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.400 Yeah, And they're just all sorts of these kind of 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:38.360 little things where we're attacking government services that were working well, 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.720 created all sorts of liabilities for Musk and then in 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:43.960 turn for. 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.440 And whether or not that actually turns out to be 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:47.920 the case or not. And I'm not sure we know 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.240 the answer to that. The narrative politically certainly does not help. 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.480 Yeah, no, no, And it just shows that like beyond 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:57.760 just like going to the DOGE website and seeing the 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.480 top line number, you know, one hundred billion or whatever, like, 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.600 there aren't a lot of successes that you can point to. 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.559 So it's like it's like a lot of political liabilities 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.720 and a lot of disruption, kind of in the bad sense, 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.679 without necessarily a ton of political upside. 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.280 Dirt parties have never worked in the sense that they've 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:18.640 never won an election, as you were pointing out, Nancy, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:23.960 but as I was remembering, Teddy Roosevelt did cause believe 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.720 William Howard Taff to lose the election way back when. 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:28.320 And I think you can make an argument that Ross 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:33.960 Perrot cost George Bush the nineteen ninety two election. If 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:40.800 the America Party picks off voters, who is it picking off, 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.560 even if it's some at the margin, is it twenty 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:48.760 something year old guys, And where is it pulling people from? Well, 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:49.160 what's a. 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.240 Little early to say, because you would often also have 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.600 to see like who are the candidates that this party 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.560 is putting forth and backing, and what do those people 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.000 look like? But I think it would probably pick up 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.120 off like you know tech bros who are like, oh right, 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.240 we should cut social security, we should shrink the federal government. 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.400 I'm not sure like how big of a slice of 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.800 the electric it is, But again, it would really depend 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.000 what Elon's going to have to do if he does 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.880 the Third Party is find all these candidates who also 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.280 want to cross Trump, and then he will put them 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.600 up for different congressional seats. But each candidate will sort 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.400 of have to run his or her own race and 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.320 have his or her own policy positions, which I guess 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:33.080 Elon would have to support, And so you know, I 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.080 think each of those candidates would appeal to probably different people. 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.640 Yeah, now, Max, when we were talking about what this 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.840 party stands for, down on very very much against debt 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.400 and deficits. That, by the way, is also the origin 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.800 story of Doge. What else in his eeks is in 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.960 such do we know that this party will stand for? 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:57.280 It's like a combination of Elon's interests and sort of 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:01.480 techno Silicon Valley right wing is and I'm piecing this 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.840 together from a bunch of tweets, but Elon has indicated 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.160 that modernizing the military with AI and robotics. 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.560 Pro tech, pro crypto, pro natalist. 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:17.680 It's like a bunch of essentially you know, internet guy ideas. 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.400 But again, like I don't know how Big Musk's bases, Like, 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.200 it's not that many people. It's enough people to build 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:26.840 a very successful car company. I'm not sure it's enough 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.720 people to build a successful political movement, you know, watching 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:35.040 this so I covered Peter Teal's donations in the twenty 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:39.240 twenty cycle, and he, you know, Teal spent all the time. 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.440 I had, I don't know, more than fifty million dollars. 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:43.240 To get too. 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.880 Essentially two Republican Senate candidates who are sort of far 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.120 right candidates to win their primaries. 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.440 And it was it was pretty successful. Both JD. 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.000 Vans and Blake Masters managed to win their primaries, and 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.400 one of those two guys, JD. Vans, won a Senate 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.760 election that costs fifty million dollars. And the reason it 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.959 worked primarily was not the money, but the fact that 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.400 Donald Trump endorsed both of those guys, and in those elections, 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.080 the big thing as big as the money was. It 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.480 was trying to get Trump to endorse those guys, and 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.520 it just kind of shows you that, like on the right, 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.399 it's pretty hard to run a successful election and not 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.800 get smushed if you're on the wrong side of Trump. 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.359 To me, Elon sort of putting together this third party, 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.119 I'm like, who does that appeal to, apart from David Sachs, 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:32.560 who like maybe would go along with him. 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:34.639 I don't know, Nancy, I don't know. David sax is 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.000 a pretty good job right now. He may stick with it, 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:41.640 which is which is he's the President's AI advisor. He's 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:43.400 in proximity to power. 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.880 Right So if he goes with Elon, which I could 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:47.560 sort of see him being one of the few people 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.159 who does, he will lose that job because the Trump 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.800 people are all about revenge and leverage and they will 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.399 lace out anybody who goes along with this Elon idea. 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.440 Nancy, on your point about how Trump has a way 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.480 actually of making up with quite a few people, Does 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.639 he have a sense of gratitude towards Musk and the 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.959 money in the ground game in twenty twenty four, and 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:15.760 is Donald Trump in the White House right now? If 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:16.720 not for Elon Musk. 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.119 So I haven't talked to Trump about this specifically, so 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.600 I have no idea exactly what he's thinking. I mean, 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.360 I think, you know, the people around Trump and sort 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.080 of the Trump world at large, you know, I think 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.960 they're grateful for Elon's money. I think they think Elon's 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.119 a little weird. I think Elon made a bunch of 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:38.080 people in the White House mad or annoyed them. But 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.720 I also think they think they won also because of 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.600 Trump and like the political figure that he is, and 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.720 and the team's of sort of political savviness. I don't 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:49.919 think that they give all the credit to Elon. I 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.040 think they would be like offended by that suggestion. 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.880 Not all the credit. But did he perhaps tip the balance? 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:57.520 I guess would be I don't think they would say 0:18:57.560 --> 0:18:59.360 he tipped the balance. I think that they would say 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:04.120 things like Trump getting indicted, which like supercharged the bas's 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.560 sense of grievance and like made really people coalesce around him, 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.440 was a key moment, you know, the assassination attempt, Biden 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.320 just being such a bad candidate. I think that there 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.520 were a bunch of things Musk helped with some money 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.679 in some key primary states. But I don't think that 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:21.919 they would say they owe the election to him, and 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:23.880 I think that he has created a lot of headaches 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:26.560 for them since then. I will also just say, like broadly, 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:29.320 the vibe in the White House now and in Trump 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:33.240 world is like they feel like they're winning. Their ecstatic 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.200 you know, they feel like they passed this big tax bill. 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.000 You know, Trump is like riding high. Staff is riding high, 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:43.720 and Elon, meanwhile, is just kind of annoying them. And 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:47.560 so that is the kind of the context in which 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:48.640 all of this is happening. 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.160 Okay, So Naty, I'm going to ask you again now 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:56.639 about mam moot and whether you indeed subscribe to the 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.480 Max Chaffkin theory. Do you believe in memot? Yeah? 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.000 I think people miss this about Trump. One is that 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:04.960 he is a very hospitable person and like is actually 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.200 more charming in person than people think. And the second 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.840 is is that he he will like accept people's apology 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.879 or forgive people. So I feel like, yeah, Elon's not 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.840 in the wilderness like they could make up, you know 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:18.639 today without an issue. 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:22.320 Listen, Trump hasn't even given Muscow a diminutive nickname yet 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.200 and until that happens like, I don't even think this 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:26.879 is a full true feud. 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.959 Final question for the two of you. In November twenty 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:36.080 twenty six, does the America Party take at least one 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:41.399 one seat in either the chambers of Congress? Nancy Cook, Nope, 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:43.880