1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 2: Let me tell you we have a new star. A 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 2: star is born Elon. 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 3: Juson Kennedy. 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 2: He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus. 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 4: Of our age. 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 2: Holy, his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 8 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 2: I feel for the guy. 9 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 4: I would say ninety eight percent really appreciate what he does. 10 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 4: But those two percent that are nasty today, I'll pay 11 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 4: in four post. 12 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: We are meant for great things in the United States 13 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 2: of America, and Elon reminds. 14 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 3: Us of that. 15 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: I'm very disappointed in Elon. I've helped Elon a lot. 16 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: Welcome to Elon, a Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 17 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, July eighth. I'm your host, David Papadopolos. Okay, America, 18 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: are you ready for the America Party? Elon Musk appareently 19 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: thinks you are launching the third Party late last week 20 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: and making bold declarations about upending the US political order 21 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: and what amounts to a dramatic escalation of his feud 22 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 2: with President Donald Trump. So we're going back to DC 23 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 2: to bring in another one of our star political reporters, 24 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: Nancy Cook, to get into the nitty gritty with me 25 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: and Elon inks stalwart Max Chafkin. Hello to you both. 26 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: Hey, David, Hi, David, Hi Max. Thanks for having me. 27 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, Nancy, you know, thanks for coming back. It's been 28 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 2: a while, it's been too long. Now listen. If Elon's 29 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 2: politics are the yin well, then Tesla and its wobbly 30 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: share price is the yang. By the way, I actually 31 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: have no idea if this actually makes any sense, but 32 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with it. In with Max, you sort 33 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: of yeah, sure, well it's close enough, yeah, good enough 34 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: for rock and roll. And we'll bring in Esha Day 35 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: to talk about the growing ang swirling in the market 36 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: as Musk wades right back into politics. Okay, now, Nancy, 37 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: so with your colleague there in Washington, Josh Green, we 38 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: had previewed this last week, but then the big beautiful 39 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: bill got final approval in Congress and signed into law 40 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 2: by Trump on the fourth of July, and Musk then 41 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 2: announces the formation of the America Party the very next day. 42 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: So tell us here, what do we need to know 43 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 2: about the America Party And what as you see it, 44 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: do the prospects look like for this thing? 45 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: Well, so Elon Musk was not happy with the tax bill, 46 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: which I think that you guys have talked about extensively, 47 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: and also hasn't been happy with the tariffs, and so 48 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: he has broken with Trump and his advisors on some 49 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: very key policy areas and then has threatened to start 50 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: this third political party on X. And so far the 51 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: idea just lives on X. 52 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 2: And you use the term threat. Is that really all 53 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: it's still is at this point a threat? 54 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: Yes, that's all it is. I mean, creating a third 55 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: political party is a huge heavy lift, and not just 56 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: heavy lift initially, it's a sustained heavy lift. 57 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 2: What are some of the mechanics of this heavy lifting? 58 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: Sure, so it would require a ton of money. He 59 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: has that, but you know, does he want to you know, 60 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: invest that money for the long term to make an 61 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: effect in both the midterms and the twenty twenty eight 62 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: presidential election or does he need to focus on his companies? 63 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 1: So money is one? Two is his attention span? 64 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 2: You know? 65 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: Sure he is threatening Trump and Trump officials about this 66 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: on X. But to create a third political party, you 67 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: have to register with a federal election commission. You have 68 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: to go to each individual state and make sure that 69 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: your party is registered in each political state. Like you know, 70 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: there are some political consultants, I'm sure in DC who 71 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: are salivating at the idea of taking Elon's money and 72 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: doing this, But to actually do it, it's so much 73 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: effort in all these states to do it, and there's 74 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: so much paperwork, and so, you know, in addition to 75 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: the money, question is does he have sort of this 76 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: sustained attention span to do this. And then the other 77 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: thing is that we have never really seen a successful 78 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: third party. You know, Ross Perrot has tried it in 79 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: the past, Andrew Yang tried it, Eddie Roosevelt, yeah, exactly, 80 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: No Labels has tried it, but we've never seen like Wallace. Sure, 81 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 1: but we've never seen like a really successful bid for 82 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 1: a third party. This is sort of a threat that 83 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: he's making. 84 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: That is true. But Teddy Roosevelt and the Bull Moose Party, 85 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 2: I believe, and Ross Perro and whatever the hell the 86 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: name of his party was, they did very much affect 87 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 2: those elections. 88 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: Sure, there is no question that it could affect the election, 89 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,559 Speaker 1: and it could you know, sort of siphon off votes 90 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: for a Prima Democrat or Republican party. Like Americans are 91 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: very unhappy with the political system at this point. But 92 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: I think it's just like, does he have the attention 93 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: span and the money to do it? You know, for 94 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: a while, because really the next marker would be the midterms, 95 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty six mid terms, when Republicans could lose 96 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: the House. That's sort of what's up for grabs. Then 97 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: and then the twenty twenty eight election, the presidential election. 98 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: You know, assuming Trump doesn't try to say a third term, 99 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 1: which would require him changing the constitution, but let's not 100 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: put it past him. It will be a totally open election. 101 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: There will be people running on the Republican side and 102 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: people on the Democratic side, and I think it will 103 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: be a very crowded field. And so, you know, does 104 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: Musk want to put up a candidate for that? You know, 105 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: I think that that's a ways off, but you know, 106 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: I think that there are certainly these conversations happening. 107 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, so Max, this is something that Josh Green also raised, 108 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: the attention span issue, the stick to itiveness sort of dubious, 109 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: like Nancy is and Joshing General has a very grim 110 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: outlook on the future of the America Party. But it's 111 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: curious to me that they both raised that question from 112 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 2: afar and I get it at some level because the 113 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: guy just bounces around all over the place, and yet 114 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 2: at the same time, it strikes me that you doubt him, 115 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: you question him and his stick toitiveness on something that 116 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,799 Speaker 2: he starts obsessing about, and you can get burned. 117 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's true. 118 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 5: And you know, some of what Musk has said over 119 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,799 Speaker 5: the last couple of days has suggested that he's thinking 120 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 5: about this in the same way that he's thinking about 121 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 5: these big bets. He keeps reposting these comments from fans 122 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 5: that say, like. 123 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: They doubted he could start space X and he did. 124 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 3: You know, so this is like his next act. 125 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 5: People forget though, that Musk has threatened to start lots 126 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 5: of that he never actually followed such a so he 127 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 5: threatened to start like a news outlet, or he's done 128 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 5: it a few times, so, you know, made various threats 129 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 5: about media. You know, even give you well he did, 130 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 5: You're right, he did by X. But he said he 131 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 5: was starting this thing called Pravda a few years ago 132 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 5: and that never happened. It's not like he never sort 133 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 5: of flakes out on it. In fact, he flakes out 134 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 5: on threats that he makes on X. 135 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 2: What's just hit rich. 136 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 3: I don't know. 137 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 5: Now obviously, the like sort of maximalist version of this, 138 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 5: which is like he finds, like I don't like, you know, 139 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 5: four hundred congressional candidates and goes through the very hard, 140 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 5: very boring, probably humbling work of trying to get these 141 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 5: people on ballots in individual districts. It's this is what 142 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 5: Nancy's talking about. It would take forever, it would be 143 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 5: very expensive. These candidates would also have to raise a 144 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 5: ton of money from outside. It would just be like 145 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 5: a very messy thing, pretty much the opposite of like 146 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,679 Speaker 5: flying into Butler for an hour and enjoying the fun 147 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 5: of a shop rally. But I do wonder what if 148 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 5: something in between happens, right, and Musk has already floated 149 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 5: various versions of this, like he could just like fund 150 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 5: a handful of Republican primary challenges, call it the America Party, 151 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 5: like not actually file with the FEC, but just say, like, 152 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 5: you know, that's what this effort is, and just act 153 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 5: like a normal kind of right wing mega donor attempting 154 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 5: essentially to drag you know, the MAGA coalition to the 155 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 5: right and also probably in the direction of subsidies, you know, 156 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 5: for his companies. 157 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: So like the Tea Party is a wing of the 158 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 2: Republican Party, so too with the America Party. That's what 159 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: I'm saying now, Nancy, are you familiar with the term 160 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: man moot? 161 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: I am not. 162 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 5: Oh that's our version of taco. It's Musk always makes 163 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 5: up with Trump. So it's this idea, and I feel 164 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 5: like you are even buying into it in this answer. 165 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 5: It's this idea that like. 166 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, don't don't tell her what. 167 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 5: He's talking a big game, but he's not really gonna 168 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 5: follow through, you know, and we kind of saw this. 169 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 2: He's got a lot more to lose than Trump does. 170 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: But I gotta say this, Max, this is my point here. 171 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 2: Man moot's not right now. It's a looking a little rough. 172 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 2: I actually think it's looking a little bit more like twamum, 173 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 2: what is that? Just that's me moood backwards? Right, But 174 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 2: you're still all in on that mood. 175 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 3: No. 176 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 5: I mean, I just think that the force pushing Musk 177 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 5: and Trump together remains, and like you see it even 178 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 5: in the way that Trump is attacking Musk, like he 179 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 5: has like insulted Musk a few times, but it doesn't 180 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 5: feel like and maybe Nancy, maybe I'm just you know, 181 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 5: failing to appreciate this. But like it feels like he 182 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 5: hasn't used his like meanest insults yet. He's also focused 183 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 5: on the third party, not as this like hideous affront, 184 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 5: but he's just sort of said, it's impractical, this is 185 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 5: the way the system is. It feels like he's pulling 186 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 5: his punches a little bit and avoiding giving Musk the 187 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 5: full double barreled you know, insult canon that he sometimes 188 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 5: reserves for his enemies. 189 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 3: It's always been a two party system, and I think 190 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 3: starting a third party just adds to confusion. It really 191 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 3: seems to have been developed for two parties. Third parties have. 192 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 5: Never worked, so he can have fun with it, but 193 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 5: I think it's ridiculous. 194 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: Well, Trump also just historic, like does get mad at people. 195 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: But I would say one interesting thing about him and 196 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: he will attack them and he can be vicious, is 197 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: there are very few people that he like the Bridges 198 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: are totally burned. You know, he was furious with Steve 199 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: Bannon when Steve Bannon left the White House during the 200 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: first term. Now they talk. You know, Steve Bannon was 201 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: at lunch at the White House, you know, a few 202 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: days before Trump bomb Durant. Trump is willing to make 203 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: up with people, like I think, much more so than 204 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: people realize, and so I could see them one hundred 205 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: percent making up. I also just want to make the 206 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 1: point that Elon doing this, you know, also runs the 207 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 1: risk of just really alienating Republican voters who are completely 208 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: beholden to Trump, and like, if they're going to pick 209 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: someone Trump versus Elon, they're going to pick Trump. I mean, 210 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: Trump is not just like a political figure or president, 211 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: do you know, He's almost like a movement figure in 212 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: terms of politics. I mean, people just feel so strongly 213 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: about him. His supporters, his detractors also feel strongly that 214 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: I just think, you know, Musk would not just have 215 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: to take on the mechanics of the third party and 216 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: the money and the time and the attention, but also 217 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,479 Speaker 1: just take on sort of the cult of Trump's personality. 218 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: You know. 219 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,239 Speaker 5: I've seen Nancy brought up these political consultants like salivating 220 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 5: over the chance to take Elon Musk's money, and I 221 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 5: uctually see some of this slipping out into public. Andrew 222 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 5: Yang has been tweeting at Musk. Mark Cuban has been 223 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 5: tweeting at Musk. These consultants are all talking about how 224 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 5: great an idea a third party is. But most of 225 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 5: these people are talking about a centrist third party, which 226 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 5: is not what Elon Musk is talking about. He's talking 227 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 5: about like a far right political party. Yes, all right, 228 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,319 Speaker 5: what is his complaints, Like, what are his policy positions? Well, 229 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 5: his policy position is that we need to drastically cut 230 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 5: the deficit. Essentially, it's not that the Big Beautiful Bill 231 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 5: is bad because it cut Medicaid, which is what the 232 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 5: centrists think and which actually might be a credible position 233 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 5: from which to start trying to build some kind of 234 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 5: political movement. It's that they didn't cut enough. He's called 235 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 5: social Security a Ponzi scheme on the Joe Rogan Show. 236 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 5: He is not in sort of the mainstream of like 237 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 5: what centrist voters think. His views are sort of out there. 238 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 5: They're all over the place, and he's attacking Trump from 239 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 5: the right. 240 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 2: Okay, So that is a fair point that saying we 241 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 2: got to go harder at social Security and Medicare and 242 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 2: Medicaid is not a centrist view. But Nancy's saying that 243 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 2: the debt is out of control and our deficits are 244 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: out of control. That's not far right politics, is it. 245 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: That's just not a view that is in vogue right 246 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: now in Washington, I would say broadly. And it's not 247 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: something that voters are caring about. And talking about cutting 248 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: social security regardless of party is like the third rail 249 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: for voters. Like old people want their social security. They 250 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: don't want to support some political figure who talks about 251 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: cutting it or even changing it. I mean that's why 252 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: Doje I think was so unpopular. That's not a winning position. 253 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 254 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 5: I mean we're seeing like a little mini illustration of 255 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 5: how what a headache doses is going to be both 256 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 5: for the White House but also maybe even more so 257 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 5: for Elon Musk with this tragedy in Texas right like 258 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 5: one of the subplots. And I think we're I don't 259 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 5: think we know yet, but you're starting to see reports 260 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 5: about was Noah the Weather Service essentially understaff? Did that 261 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 5: contribute to not predicting? Like there's just like a lot 262 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 5: of ways in which. 263 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 2: An understaff because potentially they were gutted by Doge. 264 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, And they're just all sorts of these kind of 265 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 5: little things where we're attacking government services that were working well, 266 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 5: created all sorts of liabilities for Musk and then in 267 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 5: turn for. 268 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 2: And whether or not that actually turns out to be 269 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: the case or not. And I'm not sure we know 270 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 2: the answer to that. The narrative politically certainly does not help. 271 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, no, no, And it just shows that like beyond 272 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 5: just like going to the DOGE website and seeing the 273 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 5: top line number, you know, one hundred billion or whatever, like, 274 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 5: there aren't a lot of successes that you can point to. 275 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 5: So it's like it's like a lot of political liabilities 276 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 5: and a lot of disruption, kind of in the bad sense, 277 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 5: without necessarily a ton of political upside. 278 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: Dirt parties have never worked in the sense that they've 279 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 2: never won an election, as you were pointing out, Nancy, 280 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 2: but as I was remembering, Teddy Roosevelt did cause believe 281 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: William Howard Taff to lose the election way back when. 282 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 2: And I think you can make an argument that Ross 283 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: Perrot cost George Bush the nineteen ninety two election. If 284 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 2: the America Party picks off voters, who is it picking off, 285 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: even if it's some at the margin, is it twenty 286 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: something year old guys, And where is it pulling people from? Well, 287 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 2: what's a. 288 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: Little early to say, because you would often also have 289 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: to see like who are the candidates that this party 290 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: is putting forth and backing, and what do those people 291 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: look like? But I think it would probably pick up 292 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: off like you know tech bros who are like, oh right, 293 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: we should cut social security, we should shrink the federal government. 294 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: I'm not sure like how big of a slice of 295 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: the electric it is, But again, it would really depend 296 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: what Elon's going to have to do if he does 297 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: the Third Party is find all these candidates who also 298 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: want to cross Trump, and then he will put them 299 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: up for different congressional seats. But each candidate will sort 300 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: of have to run his or her own race and 301 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: have his or her own policy positions, which I guess 302 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: Elon would have to support, And so you know, I 303 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: think each of those candidates would appeal to probably different people. 304 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, now, Max, when we were talking about what this 305 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 2: party stands for, down on very very much against debt 306 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: and deficits. That, by the way, is also the origin 307 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 2: story of Doge. What else in his eeks is in 308 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 2: such do we know that this party will stand for? 309 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 5: It's like a combination of Elon's interests and sort of 310 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 5: techno Silicon Valley right wing is and I'm piecing this 311 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 5: together from a bunch of tweets, but Elon has indicated 312 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 5: that modernizing the military with AI and robotics. 313 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 3: Pro tech, pro crypto, pro natalist. 314 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 5: It's like a bunch of essentially you know, internet guy ideas. 315 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 5: But again, like I don't know how Big Musk's bases, Like, 316 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 5: it's not that many people. It's enough people to build 317 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 5: a very successful car company. I'm not sure it's enough 318 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 5: people to build a successful political movement, you know, watching 319 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 5: this so I covered Peter Teal's donations in the twenty 320 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 5: twenty cycle, and he, you know, Teal spent all the time. 321 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 5: I had, I don't know, more than fifty million dollars. 322 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 3: To get too. 323 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 5: Essentially two Republican Senate candidates who are sort of far 324 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 5: right candidates to win their primaries. 325 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 3: And it was it was pretty successful. Both JD. 326 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 5: Vans and Blake Masters managed to win their primaries, and 327 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 5: one of those two guys, JD. Vans, won a Senate 328 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 5: election that costs fifty million dollars. And the reason it 329 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,959 Speaker 5: worked primarily was not the money, but the fact that 330 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 5: Donald Trump endorsed both of those guys, and in those elections, 331 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 5: the big thing as big as the money was. It 332 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 5: was trying to get Trump to endorse those guys, and 333 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 5: it just kind of shows you that, like on the right, 334 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 5: it's pretty hard to run a successful election and not 335 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 5: get smushed if you're on the wrong side of Trump. 336 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: To me, Elon sort of putting together this third party, 337 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: I'm like, who does that appeal to, apart from David Sachs, 338 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: who like maybe would go along with him. 339 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 3: I don't know, Nancy, I don't know. David sax is 340 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 3: a pretty good job right now. He may stick with it, 341 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 3: which is which is he's the President's AI advisor. He's 342 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 3: in proximity to power. 343 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: Right So if he goes with Elon, which I could 344 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: sort of see him being one of the few people 345 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: who does, he will lose that job because the Trump 346 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: people are all about revenge and leverage and they will 347 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: lace out anybody who goes along with this Elon idea. 348 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 2: Nancy, on your point about how Trump has a way 349 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 2: actually of making up with quite a few people, Does 350 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 2: he have a sense of gratitude towards Musk and the 351 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 2: money in the ground game in twenty twenty four, and 352 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 2: is Donald Trump in the White House right now? If 353 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 2: not for Elon Musk. 354 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: So I haven't talked to Trump about this specifically, so 355 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: I have no idea exactly what he's thinking. I mean, 356 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 1: I think, you know, the people around Trump and sort 357 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: of the Trump world at large, you know, I think 358 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: they're grateful for Elon's money. I think they think Elon's 359 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: a little weird. I think Elon made a bunch of 360 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: people in the White House mad or annoyed them. But 361 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: I also think they think they won also because of 362 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: Trump and like the political figure that he is, and 363 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: and the team's of sort of political savviness. I don't 364 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: think that they give all the credit to Elon. I 365 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: think they would be like offended by that suggestion. 366 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 2: Not all the credit. But did he perhaps tip the balance? 367 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: I guess would be I don't think they would say 368 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 1: he tipped the balance. I think that they would say 369 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: things like Trump getting indicted, which like supercharged the bas's 370 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: sense of grievance and like made really people coalesce around him, 371 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: was a key moment, you know, the assassination attempt, Biden 372 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: just being such a bad candidate. I think that there 373 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: were a bunch of things Musk helped with some money 374 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: in some key primary states. But I don't think that 375 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: they would say they owe the election to him, and 376 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 1: I think that he has created a lot of headaches 377 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: for them since then. I will also just say, like broadly, 378 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: the vibe in the White House now and in Trump 379 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: world is like they feel like they're winning. Their ecstatic 380 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: you know, they feel like they passed this big tax bill. 381 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: You know, Trump is like riding high. Staff is riding high, 382 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: and Elon, meanwhile, is just kind of annoying them. And 383 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: so that is the kind of the context in which 384 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: all of this is happening. 385 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 2: Okay, So Naty, I'm going to ask you again now 386 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 2: about mam moot and whether you indeed subscribe to the 387 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: Max Chaffkin theory. Do you believe in memot? Yeah? 388 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: I think people miss this about Trump. One is that 389 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: he is a very hospitable person and like is actually 390 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: more charming in person than people think. And the second 391 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: is is that he he will like accept people's apology 392 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: or forgive people. So I feel like, yeah, Elon's not 393 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: in the wilderness like they could make up, you know 394 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: today without an issue. 395 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 5: Listen, Trump hasn't even given Muscow a diminutive nickname yet 396 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 5: and until that happens like, I don't even think this 397 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 5: is a full true feud. 398 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,959 Speaker 2: Final question for the two of you. In November twenty 399 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 2: twenty six, does the America Party take at least one 400 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 2: one seat in either the chambers of Congress? Nancy Cook, Nope, 401 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 2: Max Chefkin No. 402 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 3: My answer is no. But I think that Elon Musk 403 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 3: will successfully back one House candidate, not necessarily on an 404 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 3: America Party line. 405 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: Gotcha, I could see that. I agree with Max. 406 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 2: Nancy come back and join us again soon anytime. 407 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:00,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. 408 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: So. Max and I are now joined by Esha Day, 409 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 2: a stocks reporter here at Bloomberg. Thank you for having me, Esha. 410 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 2: In the wake of the launch of the Great America 411 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 2: Party on Saturday, the stocks sank seven percent yesterday, which, 412 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,239 Speaker 2: as you've often told us, Escha, by Tesla's standard, it's 413 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 2: not an enormous move yet seven percent, you know, seven 414 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 2: percent bounce back a little bit today, But the mood 415 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 2: out there seems pretty glum. That angst that among the 416 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: bulls that we've noted in recent months seems to keep 417 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 2: building and building. Tell us about what you're reading in 418 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 2: notes from analysts. What kind of you know, what you're 419 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 2: hearing in conversations you're having what is Esha day seeing. 420 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 4: Sure, I think the mood I would call it one 421 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 4: of extreme caution at this point. So most of the 422 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 4: people that I'm speaking to, and mind you, these are 423 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 4: mostly TESLA investors or I would say bullish and bearish 424 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 4: analyst as well, but essentially everybody's kind of keeping their 425 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 4: fingers crossed and really hoping that this will just kind 426 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 4: of blow over. 427 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 2: You're just hoping it's going to go away. 428 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 5: You hear what you hear what Ash's saying, right, She's 429 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 5: talking about Memoot, Musk and Trump that this will just 430 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 5: knock over. He's not going to do this. They're gonna 431 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 5: make up. That's the trade. 432 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 2: Okay, So they're hoping for Memoot, but at the same 433 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 2: time they're not thrilled, right, I mean, I think among 434 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 2: those expressing concern at a louder and louder you know level, 435 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 2: is Dan ives How do you refer to. 436 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 3: Dan Ives man the QAnon shaman of right? 437 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 2: I mean, what did he what did he write? Was 438 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 2: it just today? I think it's just today? 439 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 4: But I mean, this is not the first time that 440 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 4: Dan is coming out and kind of, you know, really 441 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 4: pushing back on this what he called the soap opera, 442 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 4: and he's saying that soap opera needs to stop. But 443 00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 4: his note this morning, he doesn't. 444 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 2: He's not enjoying, no, clearly not, which. 445 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 4: Is which is unusual for Dan, I would say. So 446 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 4: he's essentially saying that the company is now at a 447 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 4: tipping point, I mean, big words. His point is a 448 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 4: Tesla board. This is the time for Tesla board to 449 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 4: really step in and make some changes and try and 450 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 4: rain in Musk and his antics somewhat. And he believes 451 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 4: that this is the time to do it. I mean 452 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 4: the note is pretty forceful. As Max said, I would 453 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 4: call Dan an uber bull. His price target on the 454 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 4: Tesla stock is the highest on what Street. It's five 455 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 4: hundred dollars. 456 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: What is the stock at right now? 457 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 4: I think it's around two hundred dollars, yes, yeah, and 458 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 4: it's been the stock has been hovering around that level 459 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 4: despite some fairly large ish moves for about a month 460 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 4: or so now, so, yeah, it's three hundred dollars. He 461 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 4: has a five hundred dollars price stylege. 462 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 2: So Max, the board, mister Ive says, is going to 463 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 2: step in. I mean he's gonna him to heal. 464 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 3: You read dan Ives note, and as Iha says, you can. 465 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 5: Sort of see why it's a problem because because dan 466 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 5: Ives his big thing after the election was that this 467 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 5: was great news for Tesla because Trump, the most powerful 468 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 5: man in the world, is suddenly aligned with the CEO 469 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,360 Speaker 5: of Tesla. You know, Trump is going to basically sort 470 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 5: of use his political force to essentially legalize autonomous cars 471 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 5: all of a sudden. 472 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 3: That's going to ease the path for Tesla's robotaxis. That 473 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 3: was the thesis. Now as that thesis is falling apart, obviously. 474 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 5: That that's going to create problems, and that's why you 475 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 5: see dan Ives wanting to find finding move, find some 476 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 5: way to avoid. 477 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 3: A protracted feud. 478 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 5: However, when you read this note that Ash's talking about 479 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 5: this morning, you sort of see why it's going to 480 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 5: be pretty hard for the board to do any of 481 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 5: the stuff that dan Ives says, because there's no real stick. 482 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 5: Dan Ives doesn't propose threatening to fire Elon because that 483 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 5: is pretty much unthinkable to the Uber. Part of ives 484 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 5: thesis is that Elon Musk creates a lot of the 485 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 5: value for the company. So his solution is essentially the 486 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 5: other version of this, which is to just pay him 487 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 5: a lot of money. 488 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 3: So the way wait, wait, so really. 489 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 2: The proposal is to encourage bad behavior. 490 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 3: The proposals where there's a fork in the road. Musk 491 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 3: is out of control and. 492 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 5: To fix this, essentially, he wants the Tesla board to 493 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 5: write him a big check. And not only one big check, 494 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 5: because the plan is, if you read this note, is 495 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 5: to give Musk a new pay package that will bump 496 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 5: his equity up to twenty five percent. This is the 497 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 5: idea that if if Musk owned a little bit more 498 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 5: of Tesla, maybe he would be incentivized to spend some 499 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 5: more time there. He also wants for the board to 500 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 5: consider writing a second check, which is to buy Xai, 501 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 5: which of course would be another mega payout for Elon Musk. 502 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 5: And remember Xai is this company that Elon sort of 503 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 5: started in his spare time, recruited a bunch of ex 504 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 5: Tesla engineers. In certain ways, it seems kind of competitive 505 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 5: to Tesla. So the solution is to Musk and line 506 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 5: essentially by aligning the incentives. Another way to say that 507 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 5: would be to give him a bunch of more money. 508 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 2: Right, so tie him closer to the company, you punish him, 509 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 2: you punish him Max by throwing bigger checks at him. 510 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 2: I mean, I may you know it drives. I mean, 511 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 2: but here's the thing. If your musk, Esha, and your 512 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 2: net worth is what roughly, it obviously goes. 513 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 4: Up and down a lot. But right now it's around 514 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 4: three hundred and forty five billion. 515 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 2: Dollars, all right, I mean, is an extra four seven 516 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 2: eight ten billion? I mean, does it matter? I mean, 517 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 2: I guess it would only matter if it helps you 518 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 2: fund the America Party. But part of the whole thesis 519 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 2: is I did iways want to pry you away from 520 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 2: that god forsaken idea. So I don't know. I mean 521 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 2: to Max's point, though, Esha, about how much Elon is 522 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 2: Tesla and Tesla is Elon. You had somebody quoted in 523 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 2: his story recently saying that fully ninety five percent of 524 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 2: the value of Tesla, of the market cap, which is 525 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 2: some nine hundred and sixty billion dollars, ninety five percent 526 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 2: is not derived from current operations, but from anticipation of 527 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 2: what is to come, new business lines, new revenue streams. 528 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 2: I mean, it's a staggering number. I think for most companies, 529 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 2: the value that the CEO or the value of what 530 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 2: is to come down the line and things that we 531 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 2: can't quite even see yet is going to be far, 532 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 2: far smaller than that. This is the cult of Musk 533 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 2: and the genius of Musk, as dan Ives is saying, 534 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: you may be furious with him and disappointed, but you're 535 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 2: you're stuck with him. Absolutely. 536 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 4: Yes, what dan Ives is saying, and the really strict 537 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 4: measures that he's putting out, they really speak to this 538 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 4: kind of oh, you know, push and pull that Tesla 539 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 4: investors are feeling right now, like they are furious. They 540 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 4: do think it's a it's a huge distraction. You know, 541 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 4: this is they're powerless though they're powerless because I mean 542 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,719 Speaker 4: they have put that power in that man in some 543 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 4: ways as well. 544 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 2: So powerless that I've says, give him more money, Look, 545 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 2: I give him a bigger cat. I think. 546 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 3: Honestly, there's a sense to it. I mean, it does. 547 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 5: It does seem like, as you say, David, incentivizing bad behavior. 548 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 5: Although it's hard to imagine Musk responding well. Everything we 549 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 5: know about Elon Musk, it's hard to imagine him responding 550 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 5: well to an ultimatum. You worry, you give him an 551 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 5: ultimatum he might do something even more rat We've seen 552 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 5: that over and over again, and that is you know, 553 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 5: in a weird way, right, It's what gives him so 554 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 5: much power, is that is that he is a little 555 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 5: bit of erratic. There is this kind of wild card factor. Again, 556 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 5: it's a little it's a little bit trumpy. 557 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 2: It is a little bit trumpy. By the way, Esha 558 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: I will note that since Tesla joined the S and 559 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 2: P five hundred at the end of twenty twenty, the 560 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 2: stock is wildly underperformed the S and P five hundreds, 561 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 2: up all of twenty six percent. I mean for that 562 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 2: period basically what you could get from owning treasury bills. 563 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 2: The S and P is up seventy seven percent in 564 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 2: that time to on a total return basis, and the 565 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: Nasdaq is up eighty three percent over that time. Granted, 566 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 2: this strips out the immediately preceding period, which was the pandemic, 567 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 2: the crazy pandemic rally that sent Tesla soaring. But yeah, 568 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: you're not talking about a four and a half year 569 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 2: period where the stocks treading water. 570 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 4: Yep, that's true. And why is that? One part of 571 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 4: it is definitely that there was it was preceded by 572 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 4: that seven hundred and fifty percent rally in twenty twenty. 573 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 2: Say that number again, was it seven hundred and fifty 574 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 2: bigger than I remember? How do we miss that? 575 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 5: Max? 576 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 4: But some of it is also just this like constant 577 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 4: noise that has surrounded the stock since then, the ev 578 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 4: business has kind of stabilized, so there's not a lot 579 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 4: of surprise in there. 580 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 2: Then there was a stabilized it's kind of but then. 581 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,719 Speaker 4: Yes, and then it started kind of slowing down, So 582 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 4: that was one disappointment. You know, the core business isn't 583 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 4: really growing kind of leaps and bounds as it was 584 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 4: supposed to. Then there was the noise around Twitter, him 585 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 4: buying Twitter, and that entire distraction around it, him having 586 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 4: to sell stock. I mean, and when I talked to 587 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 4: investors right now, that is one instance that keeps coming 588 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 4: up a lot, not so much his other controversies, of 589 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 4: which there have been many, but that the Twitter controversy 590 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 4: or you know, buying Twitter, and the distraction related to 591 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 4: Twitter which is now X and now his political foray. 592 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 4: These are the two big. 593 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 2: So the soap opera that I've refers to, I mean, 594 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 2: there is really several soap operas that seem. 595 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 4: Refers to the political soap opera, which I think has 596 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 4: just gone completely out of control, especially after Musk and 597 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 4: Trump had their fallout. So, you know, I mean, it 598 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 4: was always kind of a wild bed, right, like the 599 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 4: fact that these two men are really close and just 600 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 4: the proximity to the president will give Tesla some sort 601 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 4: of a wild edge over competitors. It was always a lot. 602 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 2: There was a lot of steam. It was a lot 603 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 2: of smoke. Max, being the the ace reporter he is, 604 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 2: he sniffed that out in November, to which I had said, well, 605 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 2: if that is true, if it's all smoke and mirrors, 606 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 2: you know, just just collect the gains and sell the stock. 607 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 2: And I don't know, And in hindsight. 608 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, that would have been Would we should charge. 609 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 3: More for this podcast? 610 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 2: Yes? All right, Esha, thanks for joining Max, Thanks as always, 611 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thanks David. This episode was edited by Anamas 612 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 2: Racus and produced by Stacy Wong, with help from Rachel Lewis, 613 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 2: Chrisky Wait, Maple's Handles Engineering, and Dave Percelfact checks. Our 614 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 2: supervising producer is Magnus Henrikson. The elon Ingk theme is 615 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 2: written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiira. Brendan 616 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 2: Francis Newnham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is 617 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 2: the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as always 618 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 2: to our supporters Joel Weber and Brad Stone. I'm David Papadoppo. 619 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 2: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 620 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 2: it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.