Speaker 1: I feel like it's like midnight right now. Do you mind?
Speaker 2: Are you feeling jet that got You're just.
Speaker 3: Well, I think I'm just like a little bit. I'm
Speaker 3: already kind of like exhausted from the tour.
Speaker 2: It's only been three days, you know. This is Midnight
Speaker 2: Chats and welcome to episode eighty two, where tonight my
Speaker 2: guest is Adam Green, who you may know from way
Speaker 2: back in his Moldy Peaches days. That was a band
Speaker 2: that he formed when he was just fourteen years old
Speaker 2: with Kimya Dawson in nineteen ninety four. I suppose they
Speaker 2: didn't really reach us as a public until the early
Speaker 2: two thousands when the whole Strokes New York thing blew up.
Speaker 2: They were a big part of that. They were a
Speaker 2: huge part of the freak folk scene to come out
Speaker 2: of New York at that time, but they disappeared quite quickly.
Speaker 2: They went on hiatus in two thousand and two, and
Speaker 2: since then Adam and Kimia have both been releasing solo albums.
Speaker 2: Adam's just put out his tenth, which is called Engineer Paradise.
Speaker 2: It comes with a comic book that you can download
Speaker 2: on his website for free, or you can buy a
Speaker 2: hard copy of it as well. We talk a bit
Speaker 2: about that. But another thing that we talk about in
Speaker 2: this podcast, which is quite mad, is his Aladdin film.
Speaker 2: His album before this one that was a soundtrack to
Speaker 2: a reimagining of the Aladdin story. But as well as
Speaker 2: the soundtrack, Adam made a movie, a feature length movie
Speaker 2: where all of the props were made with papier mache,
Speaker 2: which is as insane as it sounds. He still did
Speaker 2: it though, and he painted all of the all of
Speaker 2: the backdrops and the scenes. He cast Macaulay Culkin in it,
Speaker 2: and he overdubbed all the voices for some unknown reason,
Speaker 2: although we talk a little bit about that. So there's
Speaker 2: a link in the bottom of this podcast where you
Speaker 2: can view the whole film. It's up on YouTube. It's
Speaker 2: easy to find, but there is a link there. There's
Speaker 2: a few other links as well, because we do talk
Speaker 2: a lot about just some mad stuff that's Adam's done.
Speaker 2: He's an artist who just loves creating things and he
Speaker 2: always goes the extra mile. So I've pointed, you know,
Speaker 2: you in a direction of a few of those things.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening though, and don't forget I know,
Speaker 2: we go on about it a lot. But if you
Speaker 2: do like the podcast enough to consider supporting it, the
Speaker 2: best way you can do it is by subscribing to
Speaker 2: Loud and Quiet magazine. It costs three pounds a month
Speaker 2: and all the information is at Loud and Quiet dot
Speaker 2: com forward slash subscribe. This is a lovely window. We're
Speaker 2: satin in West London. You obviously know London really well.
Speaker 3: Now I know it pretty well, but I don't. I
Speaker 3: still need my phone maps to get around.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I think I still need those though, to
Speaker 2: be fair, But can you remember that when was the
Speaker 2: first time you came here? Because I should say the
Speaker 2: reason you know London so well out other than touring
Speaker 2: here and playing a lot here. Your wife grew up here,
Speaker 2: your family here, you visit a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, my wife grew up in
Speaker 3: West Hampstead and you know went to school around the
Speaker 3: corner from here, so you know, England has been sort
Speaker 3: of home base in different ways. Also because of rough Trade,
Speaker 3: you know, getting signed to that label when I was
Speaker 3: nineteen coming over here. So yeah, it's just been a
Speaker 3: lot of you know, a lot of London.
Speaker 1: I like it, you know what.
Speaker 2: So it was the first time you came here, was
Speaker 2: that on on rough Trade business? Was that as a
Speaker 2: musician you came.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the first first time I came here ever,
Speaker 3: was when I was fourteen years old on a family vacation. Okay,
Speaker 3: and honestly rough Trade, the Portobello Road store or wait no,
Speaker 3: and I'm sorry, there was the Covent Garden store.
Speaker 1: That was it.
Speaker 3: That was definitely on my destinations that you know, I
Speaker 3: was interested in going, you know, visiting here. It was
Speaker 3: like that in a Carnivie Street, right.
Speaker 2: Did they live up to your expectations?
Speaker 1: Yeah? It was neat of course.
Speaker 2: That was a great record store when it was there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know it's not there anymore.
Speaker 2: No, No, it's it's they've moved a big one out
Speaker 2: east and they coasted down that central one. But that's
Speaker 2: anyone was tiny. It's like just to go down as
Speaker 2: spiral stairs to get it was underneath the skate shop.
Speaker 3: Right right, yes, yes, So anyways, just so I I
Speaker 3: had brought I had at that time made a seven
Speaker 3: inch record that was a MOULDI Peaches record that was
Speaker 3: the first uh one, and and I brought it to
Speaker 3: the shop and they bought two copies from me.
Speaker 2: Okay, you know, so you could go home and tell
Speaker 2: people that you were being stopped in London.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 2: Can you remember what your first impressions of.
Speaker 1: This place was, well, as like a little kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you because because as you say, even back
Speaker 2: then you were you were already making music and the
Speaker 2: Maldi Peaches was a thing. Or even though you were fourteen, it.
Speaker 3: Was a concept. I mean we had we had this one,
Speaker 3: this one little record. But yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: it was my Firstly, my first impressions were like eating
Speaker 3: like pub food like Plowman's something, you know, like actually,
Speaker 3: I think that food has changed so much since I
Speaker 3: first came up, right, Yeah, I mean, well, you know,
Speaker 3: I like I've developed taste.
Speaker 1: For a lot of the sort of traditional British stuff.
Speaker 2: I like it, you know, like like roast dinners.
Speaker 3: Sure, I mean, uh, you know, any anything like you know,
Speaker 3: because like I was eating a lot of like roadstop
Speaker 3: food like ginsters, sandwiches and pickle whatever, Chad, what do
Speaker 3: you call it? Cheddar and pickle sandwich? But you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: but uh like I like that stuff, you know. And
Speaker 3: but but I've noticed that, uh, the country took like
Speaker 3: a massively transformative Uh you know, it's like as if they,
Speaker 3: like the government said that they had to change what
Speaker 3: the food.
Speaker 2: Was, yeah, to get so so people would come back.
Speaker 3: I think maybe there's a Jeffrey Lewis song that people
Speaker 3: have to listen to about the food, how he loves
Speaker 3: the food here. Really yeah, I think it's called My
Speaker 3: favorite thing about England is the food.
Speaker 1: You gotta listen to it. I mean it is really great. Anyway,
Speaker 1: everyone should listen to all of Jeff's music.
Speaker 2: Well you must know him quite well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well we both came out of the anti folks
Speaker 3: scene in New York, and Jeff is really like native
Speaker 3: to that. I mean, you know, the Ani folks scene
Speaker 3: is sort of you know, centralized around.
Speaker 1: The East Village.
Speaker 3: Well, actually, the Ani folk scene kind of doesn't even
Speaker 3: really exist in that way anymore because there's no official
Speaker 3: open mic because it closed Sidewalk Cafe.
Speaker 2: Is that just because of gentrification?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the I think the owner was sick
Speaker 3: of owning that restaurant and you know didn't care if
Speaker 3: you know it meant this or that too, you know
Speaker 3: a group of people, you know, I mean I think
Speaker 3: that he cared, but just not enough not to sell
Speaker 3: it right, you know. And but but along Avenue A
Speaker 3: is sort of the stretch of you know, this sort
Speaker 3: of and when I when I came to the city,
Speaker 3: people were like carrying acoustic guitars down Avenue A. Like
Speaker 3: that was you know, like everyone had a guitar, you know,
Speaker 3: and you could like sit in the park and play.
Speaker 2: And well yeah, with that been like the late nineties,
Speaker 2: late nineties, okay radio, Okay, I.
Speaker 3: Mean that's when I first started to play out in
Speaker 3: the city, you know, because I'm from the suburbs. But yeah,
Speaker 3: like and Jeff grew up right near there. He's like
Speaker 3: I think he grew up on like fourth and fourth
Speaker 3: and a right, so he was you know, like I
Speaker 3: remember the first time when the when the Village Voice
Speaker 3: gave Jeff a bad review, and I thought, but he
Speaker 3: is the Village Voice. I mean, he's the like he's
Speaker 3: the kid that actually grew up here, you know, telling
Speaker 3: you what he thinks. But in New York, it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, I kind of like this idea that like
Speaker 3: everyone has to sort of walk past each other, like
Speaker 3: you know, like I mean, I'm you know, can like
Speaker 3: stumble out of a you know whatever, my friend's apartment
Speaker 3: and walk by like Al Gore yeah or whatever, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean like because it's just New York and everyone
Speaker 3: is like sharing this like little piece of terrain, you know,
Speaker 3: and that I like that.
Speaker 2: Who is the best person you've walked past in the
Speaker 2: street in New York?
Speaker 3: Just that for some reason that Al Gore popped in
Speaker 3: my head because that was unexpected.
Speaker 1: True.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just one time I just walked right by
Speaker 3: Al Gore and I was like, oh, that was weird.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, uh, who's the craziest person I
Speaker 3: walked by? The First person I ever saw that was
Speaker 3: famous in New.
Speaker 1: York was John Waters.
Speaker 2: Okay, it was.
Speaker 3: Really you know, I I you know, I was I
Speaker 3: was in high school, kind of same kind of temperament
Speaker 3: where I was going to go like show people that
Speaker 3: I did art. And I and I went to Chelsea
Speaker 3: because you know, I heard that's like an exciting place
Speaker 3: for for for art and and you know I had
Speaker 3: seen that movie Basket Yacht. Yeah, and you know I
Speaker 3: was like making drawings, like you know, on the sidewalk
Speaker 3: and like trying to get people to buy them. And
Speaker 3: John Waters walked by, and I tried to get him
Speaker 3: to buy my drawing, you know, uh no.
Speaker 1: But it was cool to see him. I bet it was,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I don't know. And uh uh.
Speaker 3: It's funny because you know, you walk by people like
Speaker 3: or you know, I you know, like for example, Rick
Speaker 3: Okaesa had just has just died recently, but I remember
Speaker 3: I'd always walked by him and he's such a you know,
Speaker 3: he was such a tall guy and he looked so distinctive.
Speaker 3: You know when I think about walking downtown, like if
Speaker 3: you passed by like Jim Jarmush or like people like
Speaker 3: that that are so you know, it's almost like the
Speaker 3: reason why people come to live.
Speaker 1: In New York. And yeah, yeah, so it's neat. So
Speaker 1: and lou Reid, you know who used to walk around.
Speaker 2: Did you ever speak to lou Reid?
Speaker 1: I did? I did, well, very briefly.
Speaker 2: Okay, how was that? Because we had Karen I was
Speaker 2: on the podcast a few episodes ago and we were
Speaker 2: talking about lou Reid and I asked her if she'd
Speaker 2: ever met him, and she said she hadn't she had
Speaker 2: had the opportunity to, and she decides to think better
Speaker 2: of it. She didn't want to go there, you.
Speaker 3: Know, maybe she she was kind of wise. I mean
Speaker 3: one time I was invited to a concert of his
Speaker 3: and I, you know, he we were a bunch of
Speaker 3: us were in a circle and he started telling this
Speaker 3: long anecdote about you know, I think it was like
Speaker 3: about his friend's funeral, and it ended with a joke.
Speaker 3: And the whole time I was, you know, thinking, oh
Speaker 3: my god, lou Reid's talking, Louie's talking. And then when
Speaker 3: he ended with the joke, like I didn't laugh because
Speaker 3: I you know, I I didn't even get the joke.
Speaker 3: I didn't know what was happening. And he just was like,
Speaker 3: well I thought that was funny, but whatever. But you know,
Speaker 3: but you would see him. I mean, like lots of
Speaker 3: my friends have stories, and you know, like he'd be
Speaker 3: like in the movie theater or you know, like you
Speaker 3: get like I remember, I remember walking out of the
Speaker 3: subway and like he was just there in like some
Speaker 3: leather pants, and I was like, wow, the reads on
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, I mean, and it's cool. I mean,
Speaker 3: but these are silly stories. I don't these aren't even stories.
Speaker 3: But you know, but whatever, it's cool to walk around
Speaker 3: and I like that people all have to see each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there is something still like even if you
Speaker 2: kind of don't really it's not very cool, is it
Speaker 2: to say that you buy into the fame thing. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, if you see someone who is
Speaker 2: unmistakably this big character from you know, film or TV, right,
Speaker 2: there is something that is a little thrill in seeing
Speaker 2: them in real life.
Speaker 1: Definitely.
Speaker 3: You know, I think you almost know how famous somebody
Speaker 3: is or how much gravity they have by how much
Speaker 3: you can't think about anything else than that they're next
Speaker 3: to you. Yeah, that's how you can figure it out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's when you know they're famous. Yeah. So
Speaker 2: the new records, you've our Engine to Paradise, right, it
Speaker 2: comes with a comic this one, right, But.
Speaker 1: Well no it doesn't.
Speaker 3: I mean, well, there is a comic component, you know,
Speaker 3: like there's the kind of companion piece is a comic
Speaker 3: and a and a graph. So the graphic novel and
Speaker 3: the album, and they kind of are I wrote them
Speaker 3: both at the same time, so they have overlapping lines, sure,
Speaker 3: and you know thematically maybe connected, but you know, very loosely.
Speaker 3: And so the graphic novel anyone can download for free
Speaker 3: if they want, just go to my website. It's Adam
Speaker 3: Green dot info and you can download a PDF of
Speaker 3: the whole book. It's like one hundred and fifty pages, right,
Speaker 3: and the album, you know, people can stream.
Speaker 2: Sure and with the But the is the comic about
Speaker 2: robot insects, that's why. Yes, okay, yeah, So to tell
Speaker 2: tell me a bit about the comic, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3: Well, so there is a species of AI robot insects
Speaker 3: called insects with an X like sex, okay, and they
Speaker 3: are made by this sort of visionary inventor called the
Speaker 3: Doge of the Internet, who runs this sort of like
Speaker 3: futuristic idealistic tech company. And so she's developed this new
Speaker 3: species of brilliant insects.
Speaker 1: And then the.
Speaker 3: People of the regular world, which is the world of
Speaker 3: my a Ladin movie. This in a way, this whole
Speaker 3: story is basically the sequel in a way to My
Speaker 3: Laddin movie. Okay, right, And so it's in regular world
Speaker 3: and the people in regular world are getting upset because
Speaker 3: kind of like the xenophobic things with immigration. The insects
Speaker 3: are coming in and you know, they're kind of their
Speaker 3: other and they're taking their jobs and you know, surpassing
Speaker 3: them in certain ways, and they're suspicious of it, and
Speaker 3: you know, they want them out, and because of some disinformation,
Speaker 3: kind of insidious plot, they end up like having a
Speaker 3: clash of civilizations and they go to war. And the
Speaker 3: first half of the book is in the sort of war,
Speaker 3: and the second half is in the afterlife. So the
Speaker 3: second half of the book, we're in the afterlife and
Speaker 3: you get to see kind of like different.
Speaker 1: You know, the ways.
Speaker 3: I mean, I read a bit about the afterlife from
Speaker 3: different mythologies, and I kind of made a composite of
Speaker 3: you know, all after lives. You get a little bit
Speaker 3: of Tibetan Buddhists the best of Yeah, it's kind.
Speaker 1: I think it's funny.
Speaker 3: You can google afterlife on online and you know, there's
Speaker 3: so much information about it.
Speaker 2: You can learn so much that sounds pretty gnarly. But
Speaker 2: then for anyone that's seeing your Aladdin film, as you mentioned,
Speaker 2: this kind of all fits together. Yeah, because so to
Speaker 2: fill people in if they're not aware of this, your
Speaker 2: last album was an Aladdin, a soundtrack to a remake
Speaker 2: of a film of Aladdin. The Aladdin story.
Speaker 1: It was it was it was like my interpretation of
Speaker 1: the Aladdin.
Speaker 2: Myth But yeah, but it wasn't only that it was
Speaker 2: also made in pepe mache right on hand drawn sets.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like, because the thing is people, I think people don't
Speaker 3: really picture it if I describe it. I think people
Speaker 3: think that I'm talking about like I made a stop
Speaker 3: motion version of Aladdin.
Speaker 1: But it's not that. It's like real people.
Speaker 3: People are acting in full rooms that we made out
Speaker 3: of cardboard and paper, so they look like they're in
Speaker 3: a cartoon because like I kind of drew, I drew
Speaker 3: all of the lines and it looks like you're in
Speaker 3: a drawing of life.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It is absolutely like such a mammoth task to
Speaker 2: do that. Yeah, I'll put a link under this podcast. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because you can see the whole thing. You can see
Speaker 2: the whole thing on YouTube.
Speaker 1: Just type Adam Green's Aladdin into YouTube and you can
Speaker 1: watch it.
Speaker 2: And it's and it's like an hour and twenty.
Speaker 3: It's a it's a feature film and it stars you know,
Speaker 3: Macaulay Culchin is in it, Ali A Shokat from Arrested Development,
Speaker 3: Natasha Leone from you know, God, I don't know, she's
Speaker 3: from a million things. You know people know here from
Speaker 3: Orange is Orange is the New Black, sums of Beverly Hills.
Speaker 3: She's like an iconic actress. I mean, it has the painter.
Speaker 3: Francesco Clemente is the genie.
Speaker 2: He plays the genie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Jack Dishall, who's like my my moldy.
Speaker 1: Peaches, you know, friend.
Speaker 3: He plays He plays two parts and he's fucking brilliant.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: I mean people should go and see this, put this
Speaker 2: into that computer and watch this because the amount of
Speaker 2: effort that went into this. I mean, how long did
Speaker 2: it take to make this?
Speaker 1: Of years?
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of these projects has been taking
Speaker 3: me years to do. I mean, including the graphic novel.
Speaker 3: I mean, like it's gotten to this point now where
Speaker 3: when I come up with an idea, I think, okay,
Speaker 3: this is going to take me like three years, four years,
Speaker 3: you know, because that we had to make thirty rooms
Speaker 3: out of out of from scratch, you know, and we
Speaker 3: made five hundred objects that go into the rooms. So
Speaker 3: it was kind of like we made car keys, door knobs, whatever, anything,
Speaker 3: you know. Any like we made a ferrari you know
Speaker 3: at paper mache, like we made you know, everything that
Speaker 3: you needed for the movie was made. There's nothing that's
Speaker 3: not artificial, and in a way, it's almost the inverse
Speaker 3: of the Dogma ninety five manifesto. Do you remember that
Speaker 3: it was like large Venturia where they had to I
Speaker 3: think they had all kinds of rules saying that they
Speaker 3: needed to shoot in locations and they couldn't bring any
Speaker 3: props in right, and they couldn't like change anything about it,
Speaker 3: and they couldn't use any like artific official uh you know,
Speaker 3: noises or something, and so so my, you know whatever.
Speaker 3: Aesthetic here is the opposite of that. There's no real
Speaker 3: things allowed in the movie. Everything has to be crafted
Speaker 3: and made. There's you know, if you have a telephone,
Speaker 3: you have to make it out of cardboard.
Speaker 1: Everything was you know.
Speaker 2: Oh was there any was there ever a point we're
Speaker 2: making this when you just thought what am I doing?
Speaker 2: I'm just driving myself insane? Let's forget it.
Speaker 1: Well, you know what's funny is the Aladdin the movie.
Speaker 3: The character of Aladdin has a genie, and the genie
Speaker 3: gives gives a Laddin, you know, unlimited material things. But
Speaker 3: what's funny is if you make Aladdin, you have to
Speaker 3: be the genie, you know what I mean, because you
Speaker 3: have to make all.
Speaker 2: That stuff that's sic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so so in a way. I had to be
Speaker 1: Aladdin and the Genie and had to make it happen.
Speaker 2: And your genie's the lamp in your Aladdin.
Speaker 1: I had help too.
Speaker 3: I had like a crew, a lot of volunteers, honestly,
Speaker 3: because it started with like a Kickstarter campaign, So I
Speaker 3: had lots of like, honestly, people that contributed to the
Speaker 3: movie that wanted to just like get started. Some of
Speaker 3: them actually that was their first movie and now they're
Speaker 3: in like the film industry and stuff. Even though I'm
Speaker 3: not in the film industry. I never made it.
Speaker 2: Would you like to be in the film industry?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: No, But I mean, you know, uh, well, the thing is,
Speaker 3: I I have a little bit of a chip on
Speaker 3: my shoulder because I wanted to make the war in
Speaker 3: the Paradise. I wanted to make it as a war movie, right,
Speaker 3: you know, with the album. Yeah, but it wasn't tenable.
Speaker 3: You know, it was going to be a way bigger
Speaker 3: budget than Aladdin, and Aladdin really lost money, like it
Speaker 3: was like a life fucking machine.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It was like it was a suck of finances. But
Speaker 3: you know, but it was it was it was worth it,
Speaker 3: but I couldn't. No one would ever, like it would
Speaker 3: not make sense for anyone to invest in a movie
Speaker 3: that I make, because it's not the profit motives are
Speaker 3: never there, like you know, I think.
Speaker 2: Like, no, you're just make You're making it for the
Speaker 2: for making it, right.
Speaker 3: I think I want to tell like kind of my
Speaker 3: personal story as like a you know, the myth of
Speaker 3: my what I feel like is happening in my soul
Speaker 3: or something you know, that's like what that's like what
Speaker 3: turns me on.
Speaker 1: It makes me want to make a movie.
Speaker 3: But that doesn't necessarily like translate to the reason why
Speaker 3: somebody else would want to have me make a movie,
Speaker 3: you know. And I think, you know, in this case,
Speaker 3: like I was in Warren Paradise, I was taking like
Speaker 3: kind of the idea of the idea of war and
Speaker 3: maybe even the subplot of war and peace and kind
Speaker 3: of trying to like you know, massage my own life
Speaker 3: into into that plot and like kind of negotiate and
Speaker 3: all the characters are sort of me I kind of like,
Speaker 3: you know, have them say various lines that you know
Speaker 3: I'm writing down. But yeah, so ultimately I think, uh,
Speaker 3: it's not I think I think as far as in
Speaker 3: general with artists, I think like, I'm on the really
Speaker 3: low end of an artist that thinks about, you know,
Speaker 3: how it's going to make money. When I'm thinking of
Speaker 3: an idea, It's it's pretty low.
Speaker 2: That's on the list.
Speaker 1: It's very low on the list, you know.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you if if you've done
Speaker 2: because you do do these kind of big projects that
Speaker 2: take a lot of time and there's a lot of
Speaker 2: investment in there, and there's just a lot of effort
Speaker 2: goes into it. I was going to ask you if
Speaker 2: you've ever started one that you've that has been too
Speaker 2: much and you've just not done it? But is it?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: This?
Speaker 2: Is it the film version of your new album? Is
Speaker 2: that what that would be?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 3: No, no, because I think that for that, I think
Speaker 3: that when I decided to make it as a graphic novel,
Speaker 3: I mean, like I could not stress enough how that
Speaker 3: making it into a graphic novel like is in no
Speaker 3: way taking the easy way out. It's so difficult to
Speaker 3: make one hundred and fifty page graphic novel like. I
Speaker 3: worked with Toby Goodshank and Tom Bain, and we like
Speaker 3: we had to draw it for six months. We like
Speaker 3: scheduled three nights a week and drew it and it
Speaker 3: took forever. I mean, it was not like the easy
Speaker 3: way out, and actually it was kind of a cool
Speaker 3: chance to do something that I hadn't done before. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but now I'm in the middle of a poem I've
Speaker 3: been writing for the last year about medieval times, and
Speaker 3: that's been my next project. And sometimes I do wake
Speaker 3: up and I think, what have I gotten myself into
Speaker 3: with this?
Speaker 2: How long is this poem?
Speaker 1: Right now? It's like about fifty pages?
Speaker 2: All right, okay, but it's.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to let it little it down.
Speaker 2: This is the this is the this is the one
Speaker 2: that's testing you the most.
Speaker 1: Uh, you know, it's just a challenge you.
Speaker 3: I want to write a poem that people will people
Speaker 3: will be able to to really feel, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. And so that's not the case with most poems,
Speaker 3: Like I think people that there'n't really having an audience
Speaker 3: of you know, at least people I know they don't
Speaker 3: really read like long poems. So I wanted to make
Speaker 3: something that, like I thought people would actually be able
Speaker 3: to engage with. So it takes a while because I'm
Speaker 3: really it's really important to me, like I want every
Speaker 3: line to be just good enough that people like will
Speaker 3: not give up on this poem.
Speaker 2: Would you have any desire to be in someone else's film?
Speaker 3: No, And that's what people assume that I like acting.
Speaker 3: The truth is for the Aladdin movie, I was Aladdin.
Speaker 3: But that was only because I was the most famous
Speaker 3: person I could get to play Aladdin, right, Like, no.
Speaker 1: One, no one was interested in doing it. No one
Speaker 1: wanted to don't want to be Aladdin.
Speaker 2: No, they don't want No.
Speaker 3: One wanted to have the whole movie ride on them, right, Okay,
Speaker 3: you know, but it was ridiculous because if you think
Speaker 3: about it, it's like, I'm not an actor and I've
Speaker 3: never been in a movie.
Speaker 1: And then did you enjoy it?
Speaker 2: Did you enjoy the acting?
Speaker 3: There were moments, but no, I think I found to
Speaker 3: be really stressful. It's like, you know, and I mean
Speaker 3: I remember the first day of shooting, like weyeled action
Speaker 3: and you know, in walked in, uh you know, Ali
Speaker 3: a shockhad and Natasha Leone, who are both like you know,
Speaker 3: they're on tons of there are tons of movies and
Speaker 3: shows and they were doing a perfect performance first time
Speaker 3: of the scene, and I remember thinking, oh, I have
Speaker 3: a line, what's my line, you know, and and it
Speaker 3: was like such a eye opening experience that like how
Speaker 3: seriously I had to take this, And then from from
Speaker 3: then on, like I actually think this is one of
Speaker 3: the times in my life I really didn't drink. I
Speaker 3: actually sobered up to do this because I just I
Speaker 3: just I couldn't have any drinks.
Speaker 1: I needed to focus.
Speaker 2: It'd be present in the times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was crazy.
Speaker 3: And then you know, and I had to pretend that
Speaker 3: I was doing stuff that I wasn't doing, which is hard.
Speaker 2: I thought you did a good job, thanks, because you also, you.
Speaker 3: Know, I kind of got to Seinfeld myself through it
Speaker 3: because it's like, you know, it's like kind of like
Speaker 3: my world. So I can kind of like you know,
Speaker 3: be like the Garfield character that doesn't really have to
Speaker 3: like overact it, yeah, you know, and the other people
Speaker 3: have to really be convincing. But I'm just sort of
Speaker 3: like I think people think, oh, it's like it's happening
Speaker 3: in his Like it's like in Seinfeld, it's like happening
Speaker 3: in his world.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, you know, I don't feel you need to
Speaker 2: say this if you can't tell me, But was there
Speaker 2: anyone that you wanted to get to be Aladdin. That
Speaker 2: said no, which is why Michael Sarah.
Speaker 1: Okay, I thought he would be great.
Speaker 2: He would have been good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think he anything. You wanted to do it.
Speaker 2: They didn't want to do it.
Speaker 1: I asked Justin Long.
Speaker 2: I don't know Justin Justin Long.
Speaker 1: Justin Long. He's Dodgeball.
Speaker 2: Oh guy, he's got dark hair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's in He's in a jeepers creepers.
Speaker 2: I know the guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the guy, like I asked some people,
Speaker 1: you know, I I you know.
Speaker 3: Actually dev Hines was supposed to be the Sultan, Okay.
Speaker 1: You know, and then he ended up not being able
Speaker 1: to make it at the last minute.
Speaker 2: Okay, because he wasn't because you did a film before
Speaker 2: this as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the dev was in which death wasn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is called wrong ferrari the.
Speaker 3: Wrong ferrari, which rong ferrariy is sort of the prototype
Speaker 3: for a Laddin. It's more it's it's an iPhone film, so.
Speaker 2: That was shot all on an iPhone. Yes, that's also
Speaker 2: a feature length film. Yes, it's long, and it's got
Speaker 2: that's that's got Macaulay Culkins in that as well, and
Speaker 2: it's got some of the same characters.
Speaker 3: It has some of the same characters Farmer Dave, who's
Speaker 3: sort of CEO of Nintendo Records, which is like a
Speaker 3: record label that wants to sign me, and I play
Speaker 3: sort of myself on that. I'm like, I play like
Speaker 3: a sort of character called Greenster who's like doesn't want
Speaker 3: to go on any more tours.
Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, the wrong Ferrari is.
Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of a funny thing because because
Speaker 3: you know, shooting a movie on an iPhone, which you know,
Speaker 3: I hadn't really like it was this was this is
Speaker 3: the first iPhone that had a camera, so there wasn't
Speaker 3: really like a precedent for shooting a movie on a phone.
Speaker 3: By the way, all of my movies I do is overdubs,
Speaker 3: which is also like kind of funny because I really
Speaker 3: like I got into make movies from these Jodorowski and
Speaker 3: Fellini movies which are always overdubbed, so I never considered
Speaker 3: like using the sound. So I always have people like
Speaker 3: kind of read the lines that I want them to
Speaker 3: read after the fact.
Speaker 2: Does not cost even more money because.
Speaker 3: It's even more complicated. They have to come back later. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but I get to change their line, you know, even
Speaker 3: at the end. And also I just I like this surrealness,
Speaker 3: Like I like, I honestly like how when you have
Speaker 3: an overdub line, even if they're saying the same thing,
Speaker 3: there's something slightly like off about it, and it makes
Speaker 3: you feel like you're in Like I just wanted the
Speaker 3: movie to feel like it was a foreign film.
Speaker 2: Like, well, I think you did it. Thank you, vision accomplished.
Speaker 2: So do you think that's it for films for you?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, okay for maybe for acting in them.
Speaker 3: For acting probably yeah, but you know, like a father.
Speaker 3: John Misty had kind of repriised that role because he
Speaker 3: asked me to do his music video for Total Entertainment Forever,
Speaker 3: and I got my friends. We have an art collective
Speaker 3: called four GB, which is Toby good Shang, Tom Baine,
Speaker 3: and Macaulay Cokin. I got them to do it with me,
Speaker 3: so we kind of co directed a follow John Misty video, right,
Speaker 3: And it's in that style. So honestly, if somebody has
Speaker 3: a budget, it's like, great, we just do. I would
Speaker 3: totally direct movies like anytime, but yeah, like I don't
Speaker 3: want to fund them myself.
Speaker 1: Because it's too expensive. Yeah, yeah, you know, writing the
Speaker 1: poem is actually pretty cheap.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you found that, you found the way to go.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: I could write poems if honestly, if my job was
Speaker 3: just writing my notebook all day, I'd be so happy.
Speaker 3: Like if people, like, if anyone wants to just stop
Speaker 3: all this stuff and just have me do the notebook stuff,
Speaker 3: I'm down, Like, I'll just give you lines that I like.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't care.
Speaker 2: Have you what about writing for others? Have you got
Speaker 2: any interest in that?
Speaker 1: Maybe?
Speaker 2: As I ever been on the table, well.
Speaker 3: I think, you know, like I've done duets, you know,
Speaker 3: like with with the Binky Shapiro and in The Moldy
Speaker 3: Peaches where I write with somebody else, but it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, I get to sort of it's sort of
Speaker 3: like both of our thing. So I like that, you know,
Speaker 3: because I like it especially if I feel like the person,
Speaker 3: like I really understand the person, so it's like really specific,
Speaker 3: like with Kimia and with Pinkie like that, I just
Speaker 3: really like understood that I could do duets with them,
Speaker 3: and like you know what I mean, like it was
Speaker 3: natural if somebody just came to me randomly and said
Speaker 3: they wanted to do a duet. I don't think that
Speaker 3: I would do it right, just like really it's it's
Speaker 3: actually awful. Like I think I'm just like in this
Speaker 3: one sense, like I'm very uncompromising in this. Like I
Speaker 3: just it's because I have a private garden, which is
Speaker 3: like my own muse is like a private little garden,
Speaker 3: and it's really I feel like it's really nice and
Speaker 3: I get I go for a walk and it opens
Speaker 3: up and like I just like I just enjoy it
Speaker 3: and it's fun in there and it's colorful, and I
Speaker 3: can like make up anything I want, and like I
Speaker 3: don't let anyone get in there to like tell me
Speaker 3: what to do about it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I just it's like you can't give me an idea,
Speaker 3: like I don't want it, Like you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't. It's not that like I don't. If I
Speaker 3: have something and you can tell me, like a criticis
Speaker 3: some of it, I think I can accept that and
Speaker 3: incorporate that into Like you know, if you say, oh,
Speaker 3: I saw that scene in that movie and it's boring,
Speaker 3: it was too long, I'd be like, Okay, let's work
Speaker 3: on that. But as far as like somebody coming to
Speaker 3: me and saying, you know, you should really make a
Speaker 3: version of your of Pinocchio.
Speaker 1: You know, not interesting, No, not interesting, No way, it
Speaker 1: has to come from inside.
Speaker 2: Okay, what about when like in the Peaches, then when
Speaker 2: when Kimia would bring a track, would it just be
Speaker 2: that you'd always write on tracks together then?
Speaker 3: So, yeah, we'd always write together, so it would be.
Speaker 2: As much yours as it was hers at that point.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, a lot of the Genesis and multipitacha stuff
Speaker 3: was like, you know, either in my parents' basement and
Speaker 3: it was like a track that I was working on
Speaker 3: that I would bring him in on, or we would
Speaker 3: be walking down the street and start singing stuff to
Speaker 3: each other, or we would have like an inside joke
Speaker 3: that would get out of hand and it would turn
Speaker 3: into a song, or like a nickname for somebody that
Speaker 3: would become a song. Yeah, I mean it was always
Speaker 3: like that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It still kind of blows my mind knowing that you
Speaker 2: were like thirteen when you started fourteen, when when kim fourteen,
Speaker 2: you were fourteen. It blows my way that you were
Speaker 2: that young, but also that she was like nine years
Speaker 2: older than you.
Speaker 1: Yes, which but she looked like a kid. It was weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it also went like once your adults,
Speaker 2: I cast you know, that's not a huge, huge difference,
Speaker 2: but when you're twenty three and you're hanging out with
Speaker 2: a fourteen year like, that's just nothing.
Speaker 3: My parents were honestly like, oh, you have an older friend,
Speaker 3: you know, Like I don't know, I don't think they
Speaker 3: knew what was going on, you know, because it was
Speaker 3: like almost like she was my babysitter. I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: she was sort of I would go, you know, we
Speaker 3: would we would go, you know, like see concerts like
Speaker 3: the Makeup and Dubble Narcotic sound System, we saw Unwound,
Speaker 3: just different shows and you know, Kimmy, you with sort
Speaker 3: of like chaperone me right, But then she'd get like
Speaker 3: wrecked and she was you know, I'd have to like
Speaker 3: you'd just get her home. But it was funny, but it.
Speaker 2: Was kind of it felt. It also felt with the
Speaker 2: Maldi pitches, like from the outside at least that you
Speaker 2: kind of organically came to note right, like you made
Speaker 2: it organically, Like it didn't feel like you would chase.
Speaker 2: Was there a point where you were chasing a deal
Speaker 2: or becoming famous or.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think that we we really, for
Speaker 3: some reason felt like the home recorded record we made
Speaker 3: was like, you know, just perfect or something. You know,
Speaker 3: we thought it was like we didn't want to change it,
Speaker 3: and we sometimes people would hook us up with like
Speaker 3: record label people and they would you know, assume that
Speaker 3: it was a demo and they would start talking about
Speaker 3: what we were going to do for the for the record,
Speaker 3: and they didn't understand that we felt that this was
Speaker 3: the record. And so it was only really Rough Trade
Speaker 3: that you know, that first said, oh, this is perfect,
Speaker 3: you know, put this out like they wanted to put
Speaker 3: it out. But that was in the wake of us
Speaker 3: opening up for The Strokes, right when the sign the
Speaker 3: Strokes signed, and then Rough Trade basically said we want
Speaker 3: more New York City bands, and they were like, who's
Speaker 3: cool and the Matt Hickey who sent the Strokes said
Speaker 3: Moldy Peaches.
Speaker 1: So that that was it.
Speaker 3: You know, we were like this, I think we're the
Speaker 3: second band that they signed from New York.
Speaker 2: Sure, so it just kind of came to you really,
Speaker 2: you didn't have to chase it down.
Speaker 1: We didn't end up chasing it.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's actually kind of a funny story how
Speaker 3: everything started for me is like I I used to
Speaker 3: and this is in a sense kind of proactive on
Speaker 3: my part, but MTV used to They used to like
Speaker 3: broadcast live from uh Times Square, right, and it was
Speaker 3: kind of exciting, like.
Speaker 2: If yeah, we're a window behind them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you call it, we're calling the summer of
Speaker 3: ninety eight something like that. MTV used to have them.
Speaker 3: They had there's like a very live element and you know,
Speaker 3: people were coming up from the street and people were
Speaker 3: they were like they were in the street doing TV.
Speaker 1: And uh.
Speaker 3: Actually, I think that there's a clip maybe of like
Speaker 3: Pete Doherty on MTV or something. I saw something like
Speaker 3: somewhere he's on some show like that, like he's standing
Speaker 3: on like.
Speaker 2: There is He's he's waiting for an Oasis records be released.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So that kind of thing was happening in New York
Speaker 3: all the time with MTV, and so I used to
Speaker 3: get dressed up in like whatever what I thought was
Speaker 3: my best coolest clothes, and I would just go to
Speaker 3: the MTV building and stand outside, right, and sometimes they
Speaker 3: would just say come upstairs, be on a show.
Speaker 1: So they what would you do nothing?
Speaker 3: I just like, well, you know, I'm being held okay,
Speaker 3: like I would be in the audience of Total Request live.
Speaker 3: And then one time they said, do I want to
Speaker 3: be on a karaoke show where I sing karaoke? So
Speaker 3: I was like, sure, how old were you at this point?
Speaker 3: Eighteen seventeen something like that. So they have me come
Speaker 3: up and I sang this karaoke song and then during
Speaker 3: the instead of doing the song, I ended up doing
Speaker 3: a Moldy Peaches song called these Burgers Are Crazy Right,
Speaker 3: and the people really.
Speaker 2: Is on live TV, this is going out live.
Speaker 1: You know. I don't know that it was live, but
Speaker 1: it was. It was.
Speaker 3: It was taped and they broadcasted. But anyways, it was
Speaker 3: funny because the people were really into it. They loved it,
Speaker 3: and and it was like a little bit of like
Speaker 3: a it was kind of like a little bit of
Speaker 3: breaking with reality from the show because like it was,
Speaker 3: it was sort of like just not according to the
Speaker 3: script of the show, and I think it was surprising.
Speaker 3: And then the somehow I got the people to chant
Speaker 3: it with me, and it seemed like the show went
Speaker 3: off the rails. And so anyways, when this show aired
Speaker 3: for that week. When I walked around New York City,
Speaker 3: everyone would be like, oh, you're that guy that did
Speaker 3: that crazy thing on MTV. So like, you know, all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, like I was like, you know, this
Speaker 3: was like my week where you know, everyone was like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, I did this thing. And I went into
Speaker 3: the store Other Music, which is you know, which was
Speaker 3: a famous music shop at the time that's now closed
Speaker 3: of course, and they said, oh, my god, this is
Speaker 3: the guy from MTV that did that. For some reason,
Speaker 3: the people at the store working were like excited that
Speaker 3: I was in the store and I had my album,
Speaker 3: and then they said, oh, we'll take your album.
Speaker 1: You know. Then they like.
Speaker 3: Put a plack up and reviewed it and like gave
Speaker 3: a whole they gave a whole space, and people used
Speaker 3: to go to Other Music and just buy CDs from
Speaker 3: their recommendation. So I was able to sell like maybe
Speaker 3: thirty or forty copies of my CD from just from
Speaker 3: being on the shelf at Other Music with a with
Speaker 3: like a little card. And one of those people that
Speaker 3: bought it was like a CMJ journalist that put it
Speaker 3: as the album of the week. And then it resulted
Speaker 3: in like the booker of the Mercury Lounge eventually like
Speaker 3: inviting me to have a show. So like, all this
Speaker 3: stuff kind of happened because I did this goofy thing
Speaker 3: on MTV, right, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And like, and that's kind I'm guessing that's why that
Speaker 2: was so and that.
Speaker 3: That is proactive in a way, I think, yeah, because
Speaker 3: that's kind of taking faid into your owneah, hustling a
Speaker 3: little bit, taking trying to get you know. You know,
Speaker 3: that's why I think kids these days you don't want
Speaker 3: to do like you know, just like whatever viral YouTube
Speaker 3: videos or in Instagram, it's the same kind of thing,
Speaker 3: you know. Just they're just hoping to have some kind
Speaker 3: of a weird you know thing where people pay attention
Speaker 3: to it for a second and then they can transition
Speaker 3: that to actually having like an art career or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the I mean obviously in that instance, like that
Speaker 2: obviously works out brilliantly. Yeah, from you standing outside wearing
Speaker 2: some cool clothes, right, obviously you couldn't have imagined and
Speaker 2: that's where that was going to lead to.
Speaker 1: No way, no, no, did you.
Speaker 2: Just think so when you went down there? Just did
Speaker 2: you just think I'm just gonna go down there and
Speaker 2: see what I can make happen.
Speaker 1: I just thought. I don't remember what I was thinking.
Speaker 3: I remember thinking, yeah, like you know, I would like,
Speaker 3: you know, to have people hear about my music or
Speaker 3: my band or you know whatever.
Speaker 1: I would like, you know.
Speaker 3: I felt like I have something I want to give
Speaker 3: for myself artistically, and I want to sing, I want
Speaker 3: to say, I guess and like, you know, this is
Speaker 3: maybe like a place I can start to say it
Speaker 3: because it's MTV, you know what I mean, So they
Speaker 3: should be aware of me or something, do you know
Speaker 3: what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, yeah, but.
Speaker 3: Like you know, it just like I always had a
Speaker 3: notebook in my pocket and was writing, and I just
Speaker 3: like really just believed in what I was writing down
Speaker 3: in my notebook, right, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Because it also kind of felt felt like like
Speaker 2: equally just as it felt like the multi peachers kind
Speaker 2: of effortlessly kind of climbed up and became this thing. Also,
Speaker 2: it feels like just as they were there, they kind
Speaker 2: of went again in a similarly natural way. Is that
Speaker 2: how it?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, but empty, the empty I'm sorry, MOULTI
Speaker 3: peachers got we we got built up a lot by
Speaker 3: the sort of enemy culture and then kind of torn
Speaker 3: down in the next breath, you know, like it was
Speaker 3: my first experience with that sort of like what people
Speaker 3: say about the press and everything. I think we released
Speaker 3: the County Fairs Rainbow single after we played Redding Festival,
Speaker 3: which was at that time kind of the Mouldi Peachers highlight,
Speaker 3: and then they just panned it. They gave it like
Speaker 3: a you know, a terrible review, and people acted like, yeah,
Speaker 3: multi peachers, you know whatever. So it was, it was
Speaker 3: it was a very really quick like love you hate
Speaker 3: you kind of thing that was kind of weird. And
Speaker 3: then and then it was a not until really Juno
Speaker 3: came out that Moulti Peachers got such a you know,
Speaker 3: kind of reappraisal. But then but meanwhile I was in
Speaker 3: I had gone over a lot to you know, to
Speaker 3: Germany and France, where like my solo albums were like
Speaker 3: just really unexpectedly doing really well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, particularly in Germany.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I was. I was in the charts. I
Speaker 1: was in the top ten.
Speaker 2: It what do you think it was about your stuff
Speaker 2: that the Germans got so much?
Speaker 3: Well, you know the thing is that people don't a
Speaker 3: lot of people don't understand unless you were in Germany
Speaker 3: at the time. But you know, but I became a
Speaker 3: German pop star, and so I had this period of
Speaker 3: my life where maybe about four months or so, where
Speaker 3: I couldn't even walk down the street in Germany, you know,
Speaker 3: like it was.
Speaker 1: It was wild.
Speaker 3: I was on the cover of like Rolling Stone, I was.
Speaker 3: I think it was number I was number two in
Speaker 3: the charts, like I was. I was, like on the
Speaker 3: cover of the newspaper.
Speaker 2: What do you but what do you think it was about? Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, your stuff that kind of resonated there
Speaker 2: more than anywhere else.
Speaker 1: I have no idea, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like actually I assumed that they thought that it was
Speaker 3: of good quality. I don't you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It was funny, but you know it, but I don't know.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't think that that was it. I
Speaker 3: think that that was part of it. I think that
Speaker 3: I think they thought that somehow they needed somebody like me.
Speaker 3: I think I was doing at the time kind of
Speaker 3: music that was almost like a little bit influenced by
Speaker 3: cabaret music, like you know, Jacques Barrell and Kurt Viile
Speaker 3: and you know, kind of like sort of old German music.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I was kind of I made this
Speaker 3: sort of German cabaret record.
Speaker 1: I think they really liked it.
Speaker 2: I remember that time well, I remember you being on
Speaker 2: the cover of the Road and Stein.
Speaker 3: There and it was funny, you know, it was and
Speaker 3: it and it didn't quite last. I mean I thought
Speaker 3: it would last longer. I mean it continues to kind
Speaker 3: of last. But now when I go back, you know,
Speaker 3: for example, I'm doing a tour right now, right, I'm
Speaker 3: going to play Earth and Hackney tomorrow and I won't
Speaker 3: play I don't think it's a big of a venue
Speaker 3: in Berlin, right, you know. It's it's it's things change
Speaker 3: or saying in Paris. You know, it seems like in
Speaker 3: the UK and Paris might and in France, but really Paris,
Speaker 3: because I don't think they care about me in the
Speaker 3: rest of France. But my career has like kind of
Speaker 3: just slowly, you know, it's been twenty years and it's
Speaker 3: like slowly kind of grown with like new people getting
Speaker 3: into it. And then Germany it was like I was nobody.
Speaker 3: I was a pop star, you know, then like a
Speaker 3: crashed you know, But I also didn't really play the game.
Speaker 3: Like I mean, I remember people saying, you know, don't
Speaker 3: you want to collaborate with so and so and do
Speaker 3: like a duet or don't you want to you know,
Speaker 3: they were like, you know, they were being sensible about
Speaker 3: how you maintain being a German pop star, and I
Speaker 3: was like not interested in it. And I was always
Speaker 3: just kind of really like, you know, just like assuming
Speaker 3: that everyone was going to come along for every you know,
Speaker 3: kind of like thing that I was thinking about. But
Speaker 3: I do feel a little bit misunderstood in that sense.
Speaker 3: I think that people really really don't understand a lot
Speaker 3: what I'm doing, Like I mean, even though it actually
Speaker 3: is something that I'm thinking about and does make sense
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 2: Do you in what sense? Do you think they think
Speaker 2: that it's that It's like if you take Aladdin for.
Speaker 3: Example, because they think it's they think it's random. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they think it's they think it's random, which is not.
Speaker 2: They think it's they think it's not throw out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they think it's childish, which is not. It's actually
Speaker 3: just average. And then I think that they think I
Speaker 3: have no idea what people think. I you know, I
Speaker 3: I think that if people really understood that it's like
Speaker 3: a process that takes like three or four years to
Speaker 3: do one of these things, and it's like worked one
Speaker 3: every day. I think they would. I think that that's
Speaker 3: not for people right now. I don't think that people
Speaker 3: are into that stuff. I think that's not where we're
Speaker 3: at right you know. Like like I feel like I
Speaker 3: kind of approach these things with like pretty lofty goals,
Speaker 3: and I really assume that people are going to go
Speaker 3: along with me for like an intellectual ride that they're
Speaker 3: not going to do sure, you know, or whatever some
Speaker 3: people do. But I'm a little bit I am a
Speaker 3: little bit disappointed with people in a way because, like
Speaker 3: I you know, because I feel like I'm not treating
Speaker 3: people like they're dumb. I'm treating them like smart that
Speaker 3: they can like handle me talking to them this way.
Speaker 2: So how do you think that that people will genuinely
Speaker 2: react to your poem when it is done?
Speaker 3: I have low expectations, but I mean, but I always
Speaker 3: hope in a way, like I hope for the best.
Speaker 3: I mean, I hope that people will read it like
Speaker 3: you know, like you know, like some you know, like
Speaker 3: like a real labor of like you know, loving a
Speaker 3: pursuit of the truth or something, you know.
Speaker 2: M if you've got anything else in the in the
Speaker 2: works other than the poem is the main thing right now,
Speaker 2: as well as the touring this record.
Speaker 3: And yeah, like the poem is really it, I mean,
Speaker 3: which is so funny. If you ever want to start
Speaker 3: stop a conversation and just tell them what you're working
Speaker 3: on a poem, then no one really wants to engage.
Speaker 2: Is that your thing? At the moment that dinner parties
Speaker 2: you say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm working on a poem.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh cool, I'm never going to read that.
Speaker 3: That's what they think, you know, I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 3: I didn't want to make it, you know, It's just like.
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know. It's almost like sometimes you
Speaker 1: feel like when.
Speaker 3: You're you know, when you when you really you're really
Speaker 3: really working really hard on like you know, on art projects,
Speaker 3: and you know you're really trying to make them good,
Speaker 3: it almost feels like those projects have fangs and people
Speaker 3: are like really scared of like a really good.
Speaker 2: Art project, right, you need to try less?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 3: They're like, me, know, maybe if you just had like
Speaker 3: less good lines and like gave it me a little
Speaker 3: less than like I could, like, you know, think about
Speaker 3: those few lines and you know what I mean, it's.
Speaker 1: Like whatever, yeah, don't give me too much. Yeah, don't
Speaker 1: give me too much.
Speaker 2: We're in a bite sized culture, I guess the Twitter
Speaker 2: culture where everything's small.
Speaker 1: But I mean essensively.
Speaker 3: You know, people were at the Globe Theater, you know,
Speaker 3: you know and watch like Midsummer Night's Stream or something.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like a highbrow activity.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Those aren't actually high brow plays. They're just written in
Speaker 3: kind of like sort of like Middle English, e not
Speaker 3: really Middle English, but you know, some kind of in
Speaker 3: between language. Yeah, yeah, Elizabethan English. And you know those
Speaker 3: are those are for normal people. And you know what
Speaker 3: i mean, like and and like I mean, I mean
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that I'm getting there, but that's what
Speaker 3: kind of I aspire to make things like Midsummer Summer
Speaker 3: Night's Stream for people.
Speaker 1: You know, That's what I'm trying to do, you know.
Speaker 3: And I mean you could be the judge of whether
Speaker 3: or not to get there, but I mean that's actually
Speaker 3: the idiom that I'm trying to work in, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. And I feel like that's uncomfortable for
Speaker 3: people because people don't like want somebody to try to
Speaker 3: write a Midsummer and I stream for them.
Speaker 1: They want somebody to like write something worse
Speaker 2: Anyway, good night,