1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Hey, this is any Smith. I welcome to stuff I've 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: never told your protection if I heart radios has stuf First, 3 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: today we are talking about labels, labels, and not like 4 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: the clothes labels, yeah, or food labels, no labels like that. No, 5 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: we're talking about labels we attached to people, and in 6 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: this case particularly women. Why are we quick to label women? 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: And we're not really going to be talking about the 8 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: rise of no label dating, but yes, that is a 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: thing that is all the rise. Well, you know, I 10 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: also learned the term situation ships. What. Yeah, so that's 11 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: a new term when which is not necessarily a hook 12 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: up and not quite a relationship, but you're in between. 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: So it's before that DTR or defining the relationship. You 14 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: guys are obviously committed to each other. Right, So, because 15 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: I was randomly looking at BuzzFeed and it was a 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: quiz like are you in a situation ship? And I 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: was like, what is that? I've never heard of that. 18 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: It's the brand new term. I definitely have been in 19 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: a no label relationship, but it wasn't Anyone else would 20 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: have said your boyfriend girlfriend, you're dating? Um, we just 21 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 1: because I was so, I'm not really sure what I want, um, 22 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: and I'm still not sure what I want. We never 23 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: officially label anything, but it wasn't. I read all these 24 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: articles about and tips about how to how to be 25 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: in a no label relationship, and it sounds very like 26 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: you've got to have a lot of self confidence and 27 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: not be friends on social media. Really. Yes, that's interesting. Yes, 28 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: well go look of situationships because that's a majority of people. 29 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: I think that kind of unsure you're in a situation. 30 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, there a new one. I like this, 31 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: but we'll tell listeners. You go tell us if you're one. Yes, exactly? 32 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: Is it working? Yeah? Oh boy? Um. So I did 33 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: find a lot of recent surveys that said millennials in 34 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: general really resist labels. Um. And thinking about this, I 35 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: feel like in the US we're pretty binary on a 36 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: lot of things or man or woman, gay or straight, 37 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: Republican or Democrat, and that erases so much stuff. And 38 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: this is starting to change. People outside these binaries make 39 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: themselves heard. We still have a long way to go. 40 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: But I was also thinking our political system that it 41 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: seems to me that we're more or at least younger 42 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: people are more like this thing that is not necessarily 43 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: Democrat Republicans like this way or this way, this way, 44 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: so things are a change in slowly slowly. But we 45 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about um labeling of people, and we 46 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: all we like to start with definitions. Miriam Webster defines 47 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: labels as quote a descriptive or identifying word or phrase, 48 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: and it is something that people love to do. We 49 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: love to label people. And anyone listening to this can 50 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: probably think of a couple of labels that are attached 51 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: to themselves, some that they might proudly own, and others 52 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: that are imposed on you. Um nerd Christian Democrats, let 53 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: prude email all kinds of things. And then we have 54 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, if you perhaps choose not to have children, 55 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: you might be labeled selfish, um choose to live alone, weird, 56 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: not super ambitious, lazy, don't like dogs, untrustworthy. I do 57 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: question you a little bit. That's fair, That okay, Because 58 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: you've gotten really good with Peaches. You did a lot 59 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: of fun activities with her. I did do a lot 60 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: of fun activities. I was very happy watching into the 61 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: Spider Verse, and so the entire time she played with Peaches, 62 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: she has he just has a special duck called Mr. 63 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: Quackers and yes, you you two bonded, feel like you bonded. 64 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: We did, and you know she's important to you, so 65 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: she's important to me. So why do we label people? 66 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: Basically is to make sense of things, to organize things 67 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: in our brains. It's easier than being specific. Yes, it 68 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: makes us feel safer because we can classify things, we 69 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: feel that we know how to handle those things, and 70 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: then we can rate the level of danger involved with 71 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: that particular. Label is a way to combat the uncertainty 72 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: of something news. Yeah, and to not label might threaten 73 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: our belief systems, which we see. I think in politics 74 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: we've seen an older generation it's a big pushback on 75 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: this is how I knew you. Why are we changing 76 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: to this thing? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. Um 77 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: And going off of that, perhaps obviously, labels can divide us. 78 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: We see it all the time in high school movies 79 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: about clicks. When you're in the lunch room and you're 80 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: looking around at the different lunch tables. It's still a 81 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: big trup that they like to play on movies. It is. 82 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: I was in my high school. I was in the 83 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: click that was like acceptably weird and everyone liked us, 84 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: but we weren't popular. We were just well liked but 85 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: kind of weird, right and smart um, depending on your value. 86 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: Some labels are quoped better than others, and this can 87 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: make us discriminate. It makes it easier to discriminate and 88 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: salt or even enact violence on others. And this doesn't 89 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: mean we aren't different, obviously, but we can be different 90 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: and unified by the fact that we are all people 91 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: deserving of equality and our differences do not make us 92 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: less than anyone else um And labels can be really 93 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: limiting and restricting. Most people don't fit neatly into labels. 94 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: Being labeled as something hurtful can hold people back by 95 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: impacting their self esteem confidence. Things like that right and 96 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: what that label and can be dangerous. While that d 97 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: s M can be and is super helpful, there is 98 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: a dark side of labeling things maybe not yet totally 99 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: understood as abnormal and we can see that with the 100 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: overchanging ideas of what crazy is versus normal um. And 101 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: if we look at homosexuality, the d s M or 102 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, labeled it 103 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: as a disease until nineteen seven, and at the same 104 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: time finally having a diagnosis of things like bipolar might 105 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: make people feel less alone. However, misdiagnosis or a diagnosis 106 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: that is closed but doesn't entirely fit, can be damaging, 107 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: which is also one of the reasons we talk about 108 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: autism and what the spectrum is and why it's important 109 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: to talk about that versus what the old titles were. 110 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: Yeah and um. I was reading an article UM written 111 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 1: by a psychologist about the d s M in particular 112 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: and how they have like a meeting every year to 113 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: discuss what new things should we add or update or 114 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: something be changed, And she was saying one of her 115 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: colleagues had jokingly suggested overly active labeling disorder or something 116 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: because because I guess that just I have no idea 117 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: what goes on in these meetings, but it sounds like 118 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: a lot of of things get suggested. If any listeners 119 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: have insight on that being a part of that, I 120 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: would love to hear that too, I would too. Yeah, 121 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,239 Speaker 1: and then something else. Um. When it comes to labels, 122 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: we can talk about the labels people refers to wear 123 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: during Nazi Germany, like on their clothes. Um. Labels like 124 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: that not only impacts soft forth but are literally dangerous. Um. 125 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: And if we step back even further thinking about this, 126 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: the power of the witch label during the Salem witch Trials, 127 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: which I didn't really fully appreciate because you read it 128 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: and it sounds so like almost like a fairy tale 129 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: or something. How could this possibly happen? But when then 130 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: I saw The Witch and that movie was so good 131 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: at it putting me in that time and thinking what 132 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: could I say that could combat someone who thought I 133 00:07:54,720 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: was a witch? Accusation exactly, very very scary UM. And 134 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: I further thinking about this, I remembered in my hometown 135 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: paper a couple of years ago, a man accused a 136 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: woman of being a witch for making bad things happen 137 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: to him, which I mean, it's really funny and in 138 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: some sense because I remember one was like my doctor 139 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: Pepper on top of my car exploded or something. It 140 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: was like, a really, dude, you just forgot your Dr 141 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: Pepper up there. The fact that this is still a thing, 142 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: like she's a witch, like's been the cars on me right. Um. 143 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: Studies into labeling and the impact that they have go 144 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: back to at least the nineteen thirties, when a linguist 145 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: by the name of Benjamin Wharf theorized that labels are 146 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: not just descriptive, but they actually determine what we see, 147 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: and he called this the linguistic relativity hypothesis, And in 148 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: this way, labels alter how we perceived the world around us. 149 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: Studies have shown that the labels of poor and middle 150 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: class affect how participants in those studies viewed academic ability, 151 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: even when shown the same video. So if they saw 152 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: a video of someone suggested that they came from a 153 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: poor background, Uh, it was assumed by the particitants in 154 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 1: the study that they wouldn't do as well academically. Um, 155 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: even though it's the same other than like the little 156 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 1: hints in the background, the academic portion was completely the same. Um. 157 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: Another study found that simply calling a randomized group of 158 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: kids bloomers, implying that they were going to bloom academically soon, 159 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: had a significant positive impact on the test scores of 160 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: those kids a year later, even though they were not 161 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: academically different from anyone else in that study. But the 162 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: ones they told you're a bloomer in a year, you're 163 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: going to be You're going to do such a good 164 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: job on test they did. Um. So labels are powerful, 165 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: and we have a lot of labels when it comes 166 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 1: to women, and we'll get into that, but first were 167 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 1: gonna pause for a quick break for words for re 168 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So when it 169 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: comes to women, we are very quick to label, especially 170 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: women who don't fit into traditional gender norms or how 171 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: we think women should behave. So there are things like bus, bitch, sweat, easy, loose, 172 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: tease withholding, needy, nag, drama, queen ice, queen basic, high maintenance, 173 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: Old Maid, spinster, emotional, hysterical, hormonal. I went on a 174 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,719 Speaker 1: little deep dive about the I forgot about the card 175 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: game Old Maid, Yeah, because I was like, wait, so 176 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: there's a whole game based on I don't want to 177 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: It turns out it's the history is not was um 178 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: not perhaps a whole episode, Maybe it's pretty much. There's 179 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: actually a game called Bachelor as well, but for some 180 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: reason that one didn't take off. I wonder what it is. Also, 181 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: Bachelor comes from day Laurel Leaves, and it was assumed 182 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: you got those when you um studied, right, And it 183 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: was assumed because men were the only people who would 184 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: do that study academics, and they wouldn't have time to 185 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: date anyone because they're studying too much. And also old 186 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: bachelor doesn't roll off the tongue like it's true. You 187 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: and I should play a game of old Babe. Let's 188 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: do this. We didn't get the updated version because in 189 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: the updated version, the old maid is really hot. Yes, yes, 190 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: maybe there is. Actually they updated where she didn't look 191 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: like a fronty old woman to being like a skinnier 192 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: or whatever kind of connotation of it. We should come 193 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: back to this then. I don't you have to have 194 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 1: three people to play all made otherwise we would know 195 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: I would know, I don't know, I will will will 196 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: refresh the rules like if I have the card, I 197 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: would want you to have it. So I mean I 198 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: could win by checking you to taking mine, right, Yeah, 199 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: I guess that goes. Yes, Oh my god, it's been 200 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: a long time it has We're gonna make this happen. 201 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: Um and I. When I was thinking about this, I 202 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: think one of the not old Maid, but the labels. 203 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: I think that one of the reasons I like traveling 204 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: solo is that you can sort of start with a 205 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: clean slate, no labels attached, No one has any expectations 206 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: except with a new girl it's true, but there's some 207 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: power in being the new girl, because then, no matter 208 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: what I feel like, if I'm introduced to a new 209 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: person and I'm with someone who knows me, I feel 210 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: like I have to act a certain way, and that 211 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: way is generally who I am. But there's something about 212 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: traveling where you can sort of shake all of that 213 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: off and just see, well, maybe I don't maybe I'm 214 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: not really that way, or you know, try something new. 215 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: Um yeah, And I feel those those labels that you 216 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: have really impact or influence how you It's almost like 217 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: a performance, right because and if you actually think about it, 218 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: there's also a label for those who are in the 219 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: gender norms. If you think about women who are staying 220 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: home moms are like housewives or they are um susie homemakers, 221 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: and that's not necessarily yeah, in soccer moms, that's not 222 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: necessarily a good label either. Yeah, but it's kind of 223 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: a good people here. House dad's yeah, house husband's yeah. 224 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: I was trying to think about, you know, labels for dudes, 225 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: and they certainly exists, but they are not necessarily as 226 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: negative as the ones that we hear for UM. Females 227 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: are those who identify as female for sure, So we 228 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: have a lot of behaviors we label as for single 229 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: women only partying on the dance floor, wearing a sexy 230 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: dressed eating ice cream, out binging Netflix at three am. 231 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: But Mary, women can totally do all those things and 232 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: they should. They should do It's amazing. Um. And there's 233 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: a flip side too that single women have something wrong 234 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: with them, that they're damaged and complete sad, and of 235 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: course none of these things are necessarily true. We also 236 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: put a lot of labels, like we were just saying 237 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: on moms, bad moms, helicopter moms, soccer moms, wine moms, moms. 238 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: I was trying to think of those specific terms. There's 239 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: a term I know it's it's encompass, is what it is. 240 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: But there is a term for women who drink a 241 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: lot of wine, for moms who drink wine, saying wine os. 242 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: Maybe I know that's the term. That's soft news, that's 243 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: not necessarily gender specific. Um. And we also have ray 244 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: specific labels, angry black women, spicy latinas Asian dolls, and 245 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: and way worse ones that we won't repeat but classify 246 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: as hate speech, which we've been seeing more and more 247 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: videos of unfortunately. Yeah. Um, labels around feminists, for sure 248 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: hinders feminism as a whole. I know we've talked about 249 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: these on the show before, but you know, ugly feminists, 250 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: angry feminists, those kind of things, man, raw burning feminists. 251 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: To be fair, man, I would burn all my braws. 252 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: I could. We should. Well, I do need something to find, 253 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: like one that you're ready to get rid of. Will 254 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: burn it and it will smell terrible, but we'll feel good. 255 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: Broke mine last night, he really go on the dance floor. 256 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: We were actually were dancing. We were dancing. We were 257 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: doing all those singles a little, a little like a 258 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: party or a little holiday party, a little holiday somehow 259 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: that's amazing. That means a damn good time. Isn't amazing dancing? Yeah, 260 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: I don't think it's that's really amazing. I disagree strong um, 261 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: But yeah, the labels around feminism, a lot of them 262 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: have kept women away. I have a lot of friends 263 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: actually that I've had this conversation with repeatedly. Yeah, we're 264 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: there like, I'm I'm a I believe in equality. I'm 265 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: not a feminist because of I think it means this, 266 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, it doesn't really mean that, um 267 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: and this is yeah. I led to the misconception that 268 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: feminism is a monolith, which, as we've said before, it 269 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: is not. And I was also thinking about some of 270 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: the so called nice labels that we have for women 271 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: are kind of backhanded compliments. A lot of them are 272 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: perhaps outright objectification, especially if acid do with your look 273 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: um so like sexy just the way people say it, 274 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: like you can hear it in their inflection um. And 275 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: these labels absolutely can hold women back. A women might 276 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: not speak up for the fear of being labeled bossy bitchy? 277 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: Are feminist? Girls observe these labeling practices and internalize them, 278 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: and they internalize that it's normal for boys to be bossy, 279 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: but not for girls, and that influences their worldview on 280 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: what is acceptable behavior and what doors are open for them. So, 281 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: for boys, being bossy is just assumed, so they're never 282 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: going to be called bossy, but girls are, and so 283 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: it must be abnormal or that's what we're teaching when 284 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: we do things like this. From collegiest professor and author 285 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: doctor Art Markman, the term boss he is almost exclusively 286 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: used with girls, and almost exclusively used to tell them 287 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: they shouldn't be. Taking on certain leadership behaviors is almost 288 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: never used with boys, and that's a problem. And then 289 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: there are things like adding female or woman before a 290 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: job title that that's not great either. It suggests that 291 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:26,719 Speaker 1: the expectations and qualifications are different. Seeing female entrepreneur implies 292 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: entrepreneurs or masculine, and a female entrepreneur that's not normal. 293 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: Plus it draws attention to their gender before anything else, 294 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: which minimizes traits like competence. While visibility is definitely needed, 295 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: there are better ways to do it. Study from nine 296 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: called Girl Woman, Guy Man, The Effects of Sexist Labeling, 297 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: found that after showing participants pieces of art with these 298 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 1: labels around the artists, for the female artists, the low 299 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: and high status labels had an equally negative effect on 300 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: subject judgments. For the male artists, the low and high 301 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: status labels had an equally positive effect on subjects judgments. 302 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: Many psychologists have suggested that instead of bossy to describe girls, 303 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: we use more positive words like strong, persevering, and persistent 304 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: yes um and in general, people perceive labels as permanent, 305 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: so children might feel boxed into whatever labels attached to 306 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: them from a young age who among us hasn't changed 307 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: since we were four years old. Even positive labels like 308 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: pretty can be harmful if over employed. It can emphasize 309 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: to a young girl that her looks are more valuable 310 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: than any other trait. And I have two brothers, and 311 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: I just I really specifically remember when a relative hasn't 312 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: seen you forever. Tell my brothers like, wow, you're really 313 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: good at this thing, You're good at soccer, you're smart, 314 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: and then me beautiful, Yeah, I got your exotic. Oh 315 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: that's a yeah. Um. And I think it also we 316 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: can talk about the fact we we have um different 317 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: I guess cultures that box children and by saying this 318 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: is your specialty and then teach them that one specialty, 319 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: how damaging that could be as well. I mean there's 320 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: some questions about whether that makes them, you know, better 321 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: at that. And we're qualified at things, but do we 322 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: already box them in um socially as well as what 323 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: is it professionally? So that's a big question about that. 324 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 1: So wanting to avoid certain labels play a role. To 325 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: a girl not wanted to be thought of as nerdy 326 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: might avoid extracurricular academic activities, or worse, won't try her 327 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: best at school, which really sucks, especially if you're enjoying something. Right, 328 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: So like we have a trope of I think I 329 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: had a couple of people drop out of drama because 330 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: they felt it was too nerdy. Man. I I've told 331 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: this story before on the podcast. I think that I 332 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: chopped out of calculus, which was my favorite class, because 333 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: I was told girls don't do that. Girls don't do 334 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: that because it will threaten essentially, it will threaten men, 335 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: and they won't want to date you. Right, if you're 336 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: smarter than them, why would they want to be to 337 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 1: math money management instead? And I learned how to do 338 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: my taxes, which I guess is the thing we should people. Yes, yes, uh. 339 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: And I went back into calculus when I went to college. 340 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 1: So there whatever. Um and yeah, I was thinking about this. Um. 341 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: Then I wanted to ask you, Samantha, why do you 342 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: think we're so quick to label women? I mean, I 343 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: think it's just the same idea at the very beginning, 344 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: and we need to know where everybody stands. And a 345 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: part of understanding what everybody stands is by labeling them 346 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: and having them in a category. It's easy if we 347 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: can put them in a category, and therefore we think 348 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: we've got to figure it out, and then we move 349 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: on without understanding the underlying problems and putting people in 350 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 1: specific categories. Right, Um, I think it has to do 351 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: with maintaining the status quo because any woman who dares 352 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: to stray from this very small, rigid space the patriarchy 353 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: permits her to existence, who voices a desire to change 354 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: that stas quote, gets some kind of ugly label slapped 355 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: on or even maybe ugly. Um. It is a way 356 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: to keep women in line and shut them up, essentially, 357 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: I think. And a lot of those labels that are 358 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: specifically lobbed at women are used to gaslight women as well. 359 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: And the just long long list of sexual labels imply 360 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: that women are objects and their conquests for men, and 361 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: that if they're doing something for their own sexual agencies, 362 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: something they enjoy, then that's immediately something is wrong with you. 363 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: Here's a label for that, right yeah, But if I 364 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: get to have sex with you, then I, as a man, bachelor, 365 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: extremely successful conquest. That's my impression. Thank you, Thank you, 366 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: a good one. Thank you. We do have a little 367 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: bit more for you listeners, but first we have one 368 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: more quick break for a word from our sponsor and 369 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you, sponsor. And we did want to 370 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: touch on before we close this episode out labels around 371 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: sexual orientation and the gender binary. Um. As we've been 372 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: having more and more conversations about gender and how restricting 373 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: and even damaging the binary is, we're hearing more and 374 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: more about things like gender fluidity and and for so 375 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: long we've had these rigid boxes, I mean a lot 376 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: of cases, literal check boxes for either woman or a man, 377 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: and we have found a way to classify pretty much 378 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: everything in one of those boxes. And we're slowly dismantling 379 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: some of this narrow worldview and acknowledging the experiences of others. 380 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: But again, yeah, we have a really, really, really long 381 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: way to go. Um And I yeah, I saw Billy 382 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: de Williams of Lando how Is in Fame just opened 383 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: up about being gender fluid as we record this, and 384 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: fear of having our sexuality mislabeled by other limits gender 385 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: expression as well. Um, And what matters here are the 386 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 1: labels we identify with, not the label imposed on us 387 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: by others. And that's something that we need to remember 388 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: that we know imposing labels can reinforce stereotypes and lead 389 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: to things like by rature, which directly impacts mental health 390 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: and program funding. And we can't ignore all of that 391 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: and why that is. And it's also just remember it's 392 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: important to hear people yes. And I think that's something 393 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: that gets let go of a lot because we're so 394 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: scared or change is difficult, or we're just freaking stubborn. Yeah, 395 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: easy for our silves and it make if it makes 396 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: so uncomfortable, then we're gonna ignore it. But that's not 397 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: healthy for anyone, and that's only for anyone's relationship, and 398 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: that we should start listening and everyone should start listening 399 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: when they say I am this. Yeah, And of course 400 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: you don't have to choose a LAEL if you don't 401 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: want to, and it's totally fine to take time to 402 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: figure things out. And potentially none of the existing labels 403 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: we have UM even fit for you. Ah. And I 404 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: read a lot of pieces about this on discussion on 405 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: whether or not. Uh, I guess some people were saying 406 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: we don't need labels and other people were saying we 407 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: definitely do when it comes to this. So there's definitely 408 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: some conversations happening around it, and that's good, right, good, Um, 409 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: so it's it's it's we're moving slowly forward. Yes. So 410 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: in conclusion, naming things can be extremely useful by acknowledging 411 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,959 Speaker 1: things exist that previously went unnamed or unlabeled. It can 412 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: make people feel less alone. Um I've told. I've told 413 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: my story of not even knowing that bisexuality was a 414 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: thing and feelings so confused when I was watching the 415 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: X Files, like well, what's happening here? But they're both 416 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: so hot. The labels can help us find community. Um, 417 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: I definitely have found you know, my Harry Potter nerds 418 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: or whatever. You So they can be helpful in that way. 419 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: They can allow us to have discussions about systems of 420 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: oppression and how and why some labels maintain those systems. 421 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: But it's always keeping in mind the who and wild labels. 422 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: That is a good idea, right, and then it changes 423 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: things change permanent they I know when I read that, uh, 424 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: most people perceive labels as permanent, I was like, oh really, 425 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: and then I thought of it. I I was like, yeah, sure, 426 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: I guess I was a nerd from a young age 427 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: and that's just how it's going to be, you know. 428 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: But they don't have to be permanent and Um, it's 429 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: how you label yourself that's the most important thing. You 430 00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: shouldn't be imposing labels on other right. Yes, as a whole, 431 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: we're in a time of expanding our lexicon of labels, 432 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: questioning them, or appropriating them, shedding them. So you know, 433 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: I guess it's an exciting time for labels. Are not 434 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: labels because apparently millennials hate them. Um, but we would 435 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: love to your your thoughts on labels listeners, and you 436 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: can email us those thoughts at Stuff Media, mom Stuff 437 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: at iHeart media dot com. You can find us on 438 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff 439 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to our superproducer 440 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: who is mysteriously gone, Andrew Howard, and thanks to you 441 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: for listening Stuff I Ever Told you. His protection of 442 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: Iheartradias has Stuff works for more podcasts. For my heart 443 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: Radio is the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 444 00:26:45,960 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.