Speaker 1: This is The Dream Team Tapes, a Diversion Podcasts original
Speaker 1: series in association with I Heart Radio. This is a
Speaker 1: story of the United States Olympic basketball team that won
Speaker 1: gold in Barcelona, known worldwide as the Dream Team. One
Speaker 1: of the signposts we could use to begin the complete
Speaker 1: Dream Team story is Believe it or Not nineteen thirty six. Well,
Speaker 1: I guess we could go back to one when good
Speaker 1: old James and a Smith hung up a peach basket
Speaker 1: in the Springfield y m c A. But we all
Speaker 1: know about that. In six, basketball became an Olympic sport
Speaker 1: for the first time, right, no, I will, And it
Speaker 1: happened at the much remembered Olympic Games, during which Adolf
Speaker 1: Hitler advanced the idea of aryan superiority and American track
Speaker 1: athlete Jesse Owens, with four gold medals, promptly unadvanced it.
Speaker 1: Welcome to episode two of the Dream Team Tapes, in
Speaker 1: which we traced the history of Olympic basketball, including its
Speaker 1: humble beginnings, and figure out how over the course of
Speaker 1: a half century it advanced to the orgiastic celebration it
Speaker 1: became in Yes, if you want both basketball and use
Speaker 1: of the word orgiastic. You've come to the right place,
Speaker 1: so let's travel back in time. Basketball was an afterthought
Speaker 1: in those ninety six games, which were played on an
Speaker 1: outdoor clay court that had become muddy and almost unplayable
Speaker 1: by the finals, which the United States won by a
Speaker 1: football like score of nine eight over Canada. M I
Speaker 1: wonder if Steve Nash knew that the US Canada rivalry
Speaker 1: goes all the way back to ninety six. One of
Speaker 1: the stars of the United States team was a fellow
Speaker 1: named Bill Wheatley, who was working for Globe Oil and
Speaker 1: Refining at the time. He was an example of the
Speaker 1: well eclectic method of selecting players. Back then, college basketball
Speaker 1: was just a blip in the national radar, and the
Speaker 1: stars of American hoops were just as likely to be
Speaker 1: a AU players, generally tough but sure men who were
Speaker 1: already in the workforce. Of course, the selection committee could
Speaker 1: have sent a more formidable team had they chosen players
Speaker 1: from either the original Celtics, a great touring team made
Speaker 1: up of white players, or the New York Renaissance a
Speaker 1: k a. The Renaissance Big Five or a k a.
Speaker 1: The Harlem Wrens, comprised of African Americans, but the Celtics
Speaker 1: were considered professionals and the Olympics were for amateurs, a
Speaker 1: notion that was not quite as ridiculous back then as
Speaker 1: it came to be, and the Wrens were black. Though
Speaker 1: the Celtics and the Wrens frequently played against each other,
Speaker 1: for the most part, basketball, like a lot of things
Speaker 1: back then, was strictly segregated. War canceled the four into Olympics,
Speaker 1: but the games came back in and by that time
Speaker 1: college basketball had started to become big in our sporting culture.
Speaker 1: So the American stars of the team that won gold
Speaker 1: in London they beat France in the final one, we're
Speaker 1: players like Ralph Beard and Alex Groza, who were all
Speaker 1: Americans in Kentucky, and oh yes, they were also two
Speaker 1: of the players who a few years later were barred
Speaker 1: from basketball for point shaving. Ah. Yes, that true Olympic spirit,
Speaker 1: but precedent was set. Gradually, the a AU representation went
Speaker 1: away and college players dominated the Olympic rosters as we
Speaker 1: continued to win and win big. By mid century, we
Speaker 1: reached the best version of the college led team, the
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty gold medal team in Rome Co captained by
Speaker 1: Oscar Robertson and Jerry West, the Magic Johnson and Larry
Speaker 1: Bird of their time. Believe It victories in sixty and
Speaker 1: sixty eight were followed by the strange goings on in
Speaker 1: Munich nineteen seventy two, games that were marred by the
Speaker 1: murders of eleven Israeli athletes as well as the West
Speaker 1: German policeman. Now the card shows three seconds there is
Speaker 1: time for the Russians to go to their big man,
Speaker 1: Alexander bell Out. They're going to try Alexander Bellar between
Speaker 1: two American defenders. Back there with you yet parts and
Speaker 1: the Russian team is Bob Alexander Bella. At this time
Speaker 1: it is over the infamous due over game. In fact,
Speaker 1: that twice due over game that gave the Soviets the
Speaker 1: gold medal and gave the United States its first loss
Speaker 1: ever an Olympic competition. If you don't know the whole story,
Speaker 1: google it. It's fascinating. Anyway, that final was considered an anomaly,
Speaker 1: and our supremacy went on Golden Montreal in seventy six
Speaker 1: and gold in Los Angeles and four spliced around the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty Boy cut that four team, which included Dream
Speaker 1: teamers Michael Jordan's, Patrick Ewing and Chris Mullen, and was
Speaker 1: so good that it cut Charles Barkley, John Stockton and
Speaker 1: Karl Malone, none of whom should have been cut. By
Speaker 1: the way, was a particular source of pride and joy.
Speaker 1: Our college kids, though younger and unpaid, played for the
Speaker 1: love of the game, and damn it, we were still
Speaker 1: better than anyone else. But then we come to the
Speaker 1: Olympic Games in Seoul, South Korea, our critical trip down court,
Speaker 1: Smith tan Head at the Sabonis has the rebound for
Speaker 1: the Sauviettes, Tate Sock, they'll break the pressure, and here
Speaker 1: it comes Martial Nas, Sabonis and Kurt Nitas is fouled
Speaker 1: as Paul's had to cut in to say these He've
Speaker 1: asked at four files on him. You heard the announcer
Speaker 1: Dick Nburgh say three names in that brief clip, Sa Bonus,
Speaker 1: Marciaonis and Kirk Nitas. All three played for the Soviet Union.
Speaker 1: All three were better prepared at that moment to win
Speaker 1: a gold medal than anyone from the United States. For
Speaker 1: these eight games, which are best remembered for Ben Johnson's
Speaker 1: amazing one final win over Carl Lewis followed by Johnson's
Speaker 1: drug suspension that also changed forever the perception of college
Speaker 1: players representing the United States in the Olympic Games. Here's
Speaker 1: David Robinson, who was supposed to be the star of
Speaker 1: that team, talking about his first surprising and disappointing meeting
Speaker 1: with that Olympic coach. Why not you have another go?
Speaker 1: It's pretty good? I was thinking, why wouldn't he said,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna make the he David is referring to
Speaker 1: as John Thompson, who coached that team in Seoul. You
Speaker 1: can't pass, you know your your basketball skills are a home.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe that was just John Thompson's head game.
Speaker 1: Let's hope so, because one would hope that John wasn't
Speaker 1: that bad at judging basketball talent. Now, over the years,
Speaker 1: Thompson has gotten much criticism for the team's embarrassing bronze
Speaker 1: medal finish. But Thompson was simply in the wrong headspace. Damn,
Speaker 1: I hate that expression, but there it is, and a
Speaker 1: dozen other college coaches would have been there too. He
Speaker 1: was slow to realize how good international basketball had become.
Speaker 1: He was slow to realize how subtly different Olympic rules
Speaker 1: were from what was played in NCAA basketball. He was
Speaker 1: slow to realize that other countries, especially the Soviet Union
Speaker 1: which won the gold and Yugoslavia, which won the silver,
Speaker 1: were sending polished professionals who had learned the game for Americans. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: we were sending younger college players who were still learning
Speaker 1: the game. Thompson was slow to realize that perhaps someone
Speaker 1: else should have been coaching the team, but Big John
Speaker 1: was part of an ingrained system. Our Olympic teams were
Speaker 1: manned by colle uch players and coached by college coaches,
Speaker 1: all of whom had paid their dues. The next college coach, Ah,
Speaker 1: it would almost certainly be that dues paying genius at
Speaker 1: Duke Mike Sassky, but that never happened. The Eight Eight
Speaker 1: Games was a watership. The last time we sent our
Speaker 1: college kids, the basketball world was about to change. The
Speaker 1: next boy she'll hear will be that of the late
Speaker 1: great Boris Nankovic, who, at the time the Dream Team
Speaker 1: was formed, was Secretary General of PHOEBA, which is the
Speaker 1: Federation International Day Basketball. Boris, and Boris alone saw the future.
Speaker 1: He was the one that thought you know what if
Speaker 1: we play people better than us and they beat us
Speaker 1: by a hundred points, so what that will make us
Speaker 1: better in the end. Here's Boris. It's a little hard
Speaker 1: to understand, but Boris is English is infinitely better than
Speaker 1: my Serbian, which is non existent. The future then only
Speaker 1: with the vetter that Stankovic was an interesting cat. He
Speaker 1: was sort of the Yugoslavian version of the late great
Speaker 1: David Stern, Intelligent, far sighted, and suddenly, very subtly, more
Speaker 1: suddenly than Stern, in love with power. Stankovic was a
Speaker 1: utility player on the Yugoslavian team that competed in the
Speaker 1: first Feeble organized World Championships in nineteen fifty in Argentina.
Speaker 1: We finished nights, Stankovic told me. And there were nine
Speaker 1: teams anyway. Boris had long been a fan of American basketball,
Speaker 1: and after he joined FIBA, he was sent to America
Speaker 1: to better learn the game. He traveled all around and
Speaker 1: saw mostly college games, and Bill Walton was his favorite player.
Speaker 1: Boor Stankovic amazing, man, amazing, that's my Bill Walton. I
Speaker 1: had met Boris a couple of times back in the
Speaker 1: eighties when he was in the height of his FABA power.
Speaker 1: But by the time I interviewed him for the Dream
Speaker 1: Team book in two thousand and ten, he was pretty
Speaker 1: much retired. I caught up to him in his Stanbul,
Speaker 1: who was during the World Basketball Championships. But the main
Speaker 1: reason I went was to talk to Boris. Well, that
Speaker 1: and to eat Turkish food with my wife, which is
Speaker 1: absurdly good. So Boris, by that time was the eminence
Speaker 1: Grease of international basketball. While we were talking, people came
Speaker 1: by and just stared at him, much like they would
Speaker 1: stare at David Stern. You could tell Boris loved it,
Speaker 1: But I mean, who wouldn't write. When I sat down
Speaker 1: to start the book, I decided to make the Stankivic
Speaker 1: story chapter one, and something about his bio really struck me.
Speaker 1: For much of his early life, Boris had been a
Speaker 1: meat inspector in Belgrade in his native Yugoslavia. My job
Speaker 1: was to look over the meat and cheese and as
Speaker 1: you do here, put a stamp on it. Boris told
Speaker 1: me that really struck me. David Stern, more or less
Speaker 1: his counterpart, was the child of New York City Delhi operators. Still,
Speaker 1: Stern went to Columbia law and started in New York
Speaker 1: City with a high powered law firm. Boris was slapping
Speaker 1: meat and smelling cheese. Hit me for another reason too.
Speaker 1: I grew up working in my father's meat market. So
Speaker 1: I titled the first chapter The Inspector of Meat, and
Speaker 1: it gave me kind of a format for the rest
Speaker 1: of the book. Every subsequent chapter began with a V.
Speaker 1: David Robinson was the Christian soldier, Jordan was the chosen one,
Speaker 1: and so on. It was a little thing, but it
Speaker 1: helped anyway. The Inspector of Meat was convinced that international
Speaker 1: basketball would not grow if the greatest players in the world,
Speaker 1: those in the NBA, did not interact with the rest
Speaker 1: of the world. There was a proviso in effect back
Speaker 1: then that specifically forbade international players from playing against NBA players.
Speaker 1: It was the worst case of pearl clutching. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: our lads will be sullied by playing against the dastardly prose.
Speaker 1: But it was a sham, of course, since every other
Speaker 1: nation routinely sent its professionals into international competition. Now did
Speaker 1: they make the millions earned by American professionals. No, they
Speaker 1: were still pros sports was their living. Oscar Schmidt, who
Speaker 1: played for Brazil, an excellent shooter who never met a
Speaker 1: shot he didn't like, by the way, was making a
Speaker 1: half million dollars playing hoops. So to get NBA players
Speaker 1: into the Olympics, Stankovic had to change FEBA rules and
Speaker 1: began lobbying to do so as early as nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1: Three in the resolution for allowing professionals to play almost passed.
Speaker 1: The vote was thirty one twenty seven, the two most
Speaker 1: notable negative votes cast by the United States and the
Speaker 1: Soviet Union. But by the late nineteen eighties the winds
Speaker 1: of change were strong, despite the fact that USA and
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union still voted against it. The resolution that
Speaker 1: open basketball should be the rule of fiber was passed
Speaker 1: in April of nine, and there was overwhelming joyous triumphant
Speaker 1: cheers throughout our land. Not really, almost nobody in the
Speaker 1: United States noticed. Almost nobody gave a damn, including David Stern.
Speaker 1: I don't think we were through the act. We had
Speaker 1: no idea what we might be getting into. You know,
Speaker 1: the Olympics is that it didn't it didn't you know,
Speaker 1: it didn't pick up steam until after it passed. It
Speaker 1: was okay, now what do we do? So let's unpack
Speaker 1: that a little bit. Why did the United States vote
Speaker 1: against open competition which would open the door for pros
Speaker 1: and the Olympics. Very simply, the Olympics were not on
Speaker 1: David Stern's radar. In truth, they weren't on anyone's radar
Speaker 1: beside bar of Snakovics. True, Stern had drawn up TV
Speaker 1: deals with several European countries, and the league had even
Speaker 1: stepped its toe into international play. But Stern was not
Speaker 1: thinking about the Olympics with those TV contracts and those games.
Speaker 1: He was thinking about the bottom line. TV meant revenue,
Speaker 1: game exposure meant marketing opportunities, And even to this visionary commissioner,
Speaker 1: the idea of the NBA participating in the Olympics was,
Speaker 1: for the first six or seven years of the decade
Speaker 1: of the eighties, a non starter. How could the Olympics
Speaker 1: be monetized? How could that help anyway? Our college lads
Speaker 1: represented the Olympic team, right, But things started to change.
Speaker 1: Stankovic had support around the world. The world was getting smaller,
Speaker 1: the game was getting bigger. Then it was that beating
Speaker 1: and sold in that demonstrated the world was catching up
Speaker 1: to us. And there was also this man who Larry
Speaker 1: Bird speaks about. I love Dave. Dave gas one of
Speaker 1: the smartest human thingy loss. I wanted to hang out
Speaker 1: with That's what it was, if he wanted me to
Speaker 1: hang out with him. A man named Dave Gavitt has
Speaker 1: a central part in the Stream Team saga, and, along
Speaker 1: with Boris Stankovic, is one of the forgotten men of
Speaker 1: the Stream Team story. An amateur basketball circles, Gavitt had
Speaker 1: done it all, seen it all, had been a successful,
Speaker 1: respected coach and athletic director. He had been one of
Speaker 1: the masterminds behind the creation of the Big East Conference,
Speaker 1: and most impressive, he was the moving force behind the
Speaker 1: expansion of the n c A basketball tournament into a
Speaker 1: billion dollar bonanza. So it was natural that when an
Speaker 1: organization called USA Basketball was formed, Gavitt would be the
Speaker 1: one to let it. Most men who had been around
Speaker 1: the college game for as long as Gavitt had were
Speaker 1: hide bound traditionalists NBA players in the Olympics, why do
Speaker 1: you kid me, this is a college game? But Gavitt
Speaker 1: wasn't like that. Gavitt saw the future, Embrace the future.
Speaker 1: He had bargained with the slickst of the slick network
Speaker 1: TV executives to get serious jack for college hoops. So
Speaker 1: he was the one that could step into David Stern's
Speaker 1: office without being intimidated and tell him what's what, Which
Speaker 1: is what he did. When Stern suggested, look, we'll just
Speaker 1: buy the Olympics, Gavitt was the one that said to him, David,
Speaker 1: We're not going to buy the Olympics. The Olympics belongs
Speaker 1: to the country. What I remember most about Gavitt was
Speaker 1: that he was both businessman and visionary romantic about basketball.
Speaker 1: I interviewed him for the book not long before he
Speaker 1: died at the age of seventy three and two thousand eleven,
Speaker 1: and over lunch he told me this story. He was
Speaker 1: coaching a touring college all star team at a game
Speaker 1: in Assens. We were playing a night game and there
Speaker 1: must have been thirty thousand people there and the Acropolis
Speaker 1: was in the background with a full moon. Gathertt remembered,
Speaker 1: I had chills. I love that story and often think
Speaker 1: about when I think of Gavitt. After Gavitt had cast
Speaker 1: a no vote on behalf of the United States, even
Speaker 1: though he knew the resolution was going to pass, which
Speaker 1: it did, he asked for the floor. Now that we've
Speaker 1: done this, Gavitt told the feb reps, you need to
Speaker 1: realize a few things and help us. We're dealing with
Speaker 1: a powerful organization in the NBA, and we're gonna have
Speaker 1: to get your cooperation with dates and things like that.
Speaker 1: So the NBA was ready. It had a good man
Speaker 1: and Dave Gabett ready to take charge. What it didn't
Speaker 1: have was the NBA stars. Here's Charles Barkley and Larry
Speaker 1: Bird who were coming at this Dream Team thing from
Speaker 1: two distinctly different directions, and everyone in the first five
Speaker 1: it was a big, beautiful Nobody put all five us
Speaker 1: on the cover illustrated and but one thing I didn't
Speaker 1: want to do is go over there and not built
Speaker 1: to play at all and take away a chance for
Speaker 1: somebody else to have officer. So Charles was gung ho
Speaker 1: and Larry was worried about his back. Twenty eight years
Speaker 1: after the Dream Team won Golden Barcelona, there is still
Speaker 1: mystery surrounding how exactly the team was selected. There weren't tryouts. Hey,
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan listened, would like you to take a couple
Speaker 1: of days off from golf and come out to Indianapolis.
Speaker 1: Or some o their godforsaken place. You wouldn't set foot
Speaker 1: in and run through some drills that was not going
Speaker 1: to happen. There was a selection committee, but really some
Speaker 1: of the players selected themselves. Magic wants in. He's in.
Speaker 1: Carl Malone wants in. He's in. Jordan once in, of
Speaker 1: course he's in. Charles Barkley wants in. Charles not so fast.
Speaker 1: So in the next episode of The Dream Team Tapes,
Speaker 1: I'll discuss how this team came together, some of the
Speaker 1: inner intrigue and lasting antagonism that came out of the
Speaker 1: Dream Team selection process. I'm calling it hrding cats. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening. If you enjoyed The Dream Team Tapes, please follow, rate,
Speaker 1: and review wherever you get your podcasts. The Dream Team
Speaker 1: Tapes is written and hosted by Jack McCallum. Executive producers
Speaker 1: Mark Francis and Scott Waxman. Executive producer for I Heart
Speaker 1: Media is Shorn to Tone. The Dream Team Tapes is
Speaker 1: a Diversion podcast's original series in association with I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.