WEBVTT - S1: Ep 4 - The Devil's Advocates 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:20.119 The day after Mother Teresa died, her body lay on 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:22.320 a bed of ice in the mother house in Kolcutta. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Hundreds of people stood outside in the rain. Some were 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:33.919 crying inside. Sisters knelt or stood around her body. They 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.560 prayed the Rosary aloud, and approached one at a time 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:41.080 to kiss her feet. The chapel was too small for 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.879 all the visitors who wanted to pay their respects, so 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.000 her body was carried through the streets in an open 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.400 coffin to a church, where she lay in state for 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:52.040 a week. Her funeral was in a sports arena in Kolcutta. 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.760 Some fifteen thousand people attended, including dignitaries from around the world, 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.720 the presidents of Albania, of Ghana, of Italy, the Queen 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.040 of Spain, the Queen of Belgium, the Queen of Jordan, 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.640 First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, the Prime Minister of India, 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.959 declared it a state funeral, something usually reserved for presidents 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:18.880 and prime ministers. A leprosy patient carried in the eucharist wine. 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.440 Mother Teresa's personal story seems to me like a vague silhouette, 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.840 something so public and at the same time deeply private. 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.759 As I chiseled my way through. It wasn't long before 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:30.720 I hit something hard. 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:35.720 Mother Theresa's cult of death and suffering depends for its 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.760 effect on the most vulnerable and helpless, abandoned babies, say 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:41.000 or the terminally ill. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.039 Christopher Higgins was a political critic and author known for 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:48.080 his blistering commentaries. Some people called them hitch slaps, and 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:51.240 in the nineteen nineties he made a television documentary about 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.400 Mother Teresa, A scathing critique recognized it's called Hell's Angel. 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.720 Mother Teresa regards soself as mandated by Heaven, which is 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:04.760 hot modest. She lends spiritual solace to dictators and to 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:09.320 wealthy exploiters, which is scarcely the essence of simplicity, and 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:13.040 she preaches surrender and prostration to the poor, which a 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.520 truly humble person would barely have the nerve to do. 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.800 Throughout the program, Hitchins is weirdly lit, half his faces 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.280 in shadow. A massive caricature of a devious looking Mother 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.840 Teresa lurks in the background, and Hitchins is ruthless. 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.240 She takes on the grim and tedious tones of the 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.680 zealot and the fanatic. Such a person is manifested in 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:37.640 the shape of a demagogue, an obscurantist, and a servant 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.440 of earthly powers, a presumable virtue who also campaigns against 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:42.160 birth control. 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.600 Hall's Angel came out at a time when Mother Teresa 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.720 was considered too virtuous to be criticized. Calls for her 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:53.280 sainthood were growing. If you haven't heard some of these 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.840 criticisms before, you might be thinking, what is this guy saying? 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:01.799 I thought everyone loved Mother Teresa. Just Christopher Higgins, I 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:02.560 critic has. 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:05.280 Mother Teresa because it has to be done. Somebody has 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:06.880 to do it. Somebody had to do it. 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:12.120 From a cocoa punch and iHeartRadio. This is the Turning 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:28.480 I America Lance, Part four, The Devil's Advocates. We reached 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.680 out to the missionaries of Charity Sisters and sent them 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.960 a list of questions we had. While a representative did respond, 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.520 they declined to be interviewed. Critics have a lot of 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.320 complaints against Mother Teresa, and once these criticisms under the world, 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:43.960 they became part of her story. They still are today. 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:46.280 I can't go into all of them, but we're going 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.800 to look at a handful. Let's start by going back 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.840 to something beautiful for God that's the nineteen sixty nine 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.640 documentary about Mother Teresa by Malcolm Muggridge, the film that 0:03:55.640 --> 0:04:04.960 made her famous. Muggridge was convinced that a scene in 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.520 his film captured a miracle. It happened in the Home 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.280 for the Dying. When the crew tried to film in there, 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:13.720 the room was so dark that the director worried the 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.880 images wouldn't come out, But it turns out they did. 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.880 The scene was full of light. Immediately muggrets thought it 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.840 was divine intervention. He declared it the first photographic miracle. 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:35.559 But to Christopher Higgins, mother Teresa's critic, this miracle seemed 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.359 too good to be true, and in Hell's Angel he 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:41.800 included an interview with Muggridge's cameraman, a guy named Ken McMillan, 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.520 who said, it's true they were worried about the low light, 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:46.520 but they were using a new kind of film, some. 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.599 New film made by Kodak, which we hadn't had time 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.599 to test before we left. So I said, well, let's 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:55.880 have it go. So we shot him. 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.040 A month or two later, they're in the studio looking 0:04:58.040 --> 0:04:58.840 at the footage. 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.480 I did think. Up came the shots of the house 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.640 of a dye and it was surprising. 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:07.919 You could see every detail. 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:13.039 And I said, that's amazing, that's extraordinary. And I was 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.039 going to go on to say, you know, three cheers 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.280 for Kodak. I didn't get a chance to say that, though, 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.160 because Malcolm, sitting in the front rise spun round said, 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:21.839 it's divine light. 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.800 It's Mother Theresa. You'll find that it's divine light. 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:32.279 Old boy, Malcolm Muggridge couldn't stop talking about this miracle. 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.279 He called it a halo, and a star was born. 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:38.719 Here's Christopher Higgins and Hell's Angel again. 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:43.640 This profane marriage between tawdry media hype and medieval superstition 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.839 gave birth to an icon which few have since had 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.560 the poor taste to question. How does the reputation of 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.680 Holy Mother Theresa look if, just for a moment we 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.560 switch off Malcolm Muggridge's kindly lied. 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.000 Well, without him, there wouldn't be any Mother Tries, obviously, 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.200 because he was the one who puts her on that pedestal. 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.880 This is a roop Chattergy a physician in London. He 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.840 collaborated with Higgins on the film Hell's Angel. He also 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.920 published a book jam Packed with his research and condemnations 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.120 of Mother Teresa. For years, he spent his spare time 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.760 researching the lady, as he often calls her. 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:23.120 Might whatever you call it, crusade against the lady. 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.440 Well, maybe to start, I wonder, could you just if 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:30.440 you had to summarize your overall case or perspective on 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.560 Mother Teresa, what would you say? 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.560 I considered the whole Mother Teresa bandwagon as a cult. 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:42.919 I would say that practically everything about Mother Teresa is 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.800 a result of myth and hyperbole. 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:53.440 But what fired him up in the first place. A 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.960 roop Chattergy grew up in Kolkatta in the nineteen seventies. 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.240 He was a medical student, and back then he had 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.120 a very different person on Mother Teresa. 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.159 When I used to go to medical school, on my 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.560 mobed every day in Kakata, I used to pass by 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.280 one of her places and I used to see about 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.880 forty people being fed, and I would be quite thankful 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.400 and happy that somebody was feeding at least forty people 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.400 in Kakata. Even in her heyday, not much was known 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.920 about her. It was known that she had won the 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:27.440 Nobel Prize and that she was a very good, charitable lady. 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:32.520 So I had absolutely nothing against her. If anything, I 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.400 was positive towards her. 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:38.400 Then he moved to the UK. One day a coworker 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:39.480 asked him where he was from. 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.760 He said Calcutta, and then he said, oh, Kakuta. Do 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.600 you know something. There's one person in the whole world 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.680 I respect more than anybody else. That's Mother Teresa. And 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.800 I I was quite surprised. I said, why this is 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.640 nineteen eighty five. Why did she mention Mother Tusa when 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.680 I said I was from Gacasa. That incident stuck to 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.360 my mind like yesterday. I just I didn't know that 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:04.800 people synonymized Kakata with Mother Teresa. 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.400 After that, he started noticing how his home city was 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:09.760 viewed by the western world. 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.240 I read little things about Kakata in a very gruesome way, 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:16.640 and it's all about poverty and leprosy and squala, nothing 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:18.280 at all about anything else. 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.720 I recently came across a video where Bishop and Los 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:26.280 Angeles describes Kolcutta like this. Imagine the worst garbage jump 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:28.640 you've seen, and now think of the whole city that way. 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.560 Reports like this didn't match the Kolkutta Chatterje knew a 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.000 thriving metropolis, a cultural hub. So when he was on 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.320 a trip to Kolkutta. He visited the Home for the Dying, 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:40.800 the place he'd heard described as an oasis for the poor. 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.400 And I was up polled that that place had given 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.280 us so much publicity and it was even called a hospice. 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:51.440 It had less than one hundred places, and it didn't 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:55.000 have any beds. Even they had hammocks. There was no yards, 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.760 no veranda, and no balcony, no nothing, know what to 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.480 stretch your limbs. You were brutally treated in there. 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.400 Chatterjee says he was even more shocked by the medical 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:06.360 practices he saw. 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:11.200 They routinely used to reuse needles and gloves. Even that 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:12.319 practice has stopped now. 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:15.920 It was a hush place. I think it was a 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:16.680 hush place. 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.800 Collete Livermore was with the Missionaries of Charity for eleven years. 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:23.800 She's the Australian sister who wasn't allowed to go home 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:27.400 when her brother was very ill. After she left the MCS, 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.600 she became a physician, but back in nineteen eighty she 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.560 was assigned to the Home for the Dying. Collette fed 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:37.080 intended to patience There. She cleaned maggots from wounds and 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.400 washed the bodies of people who died. One patient died 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:41.000 in her arms. 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:46.800 The standard medicine wouldn't have been high. And the thing 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.959 I found difficult was there was no painkillers. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:51.280 She says. 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.240 The sisters were often rough and cold. When people who 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.000 had been on the street arrived at the home, the 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.320 sisters would strip off their clothes right there in the room. 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.720 They were all washed in a cement washing place with 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:07.479 no privacy and just cold water throwing over them. 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.040 Clotte says they often cried out when the cold water 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.800 hit their skin while some visitor with a camera might 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:13.840 be snapping photos. 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:18.520 Their hair was shaved, and I mean, I know they 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:22.080 had lice and all that sort of stuff, but I 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:25.080 don't know. I found it very harsh. 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.599 She says. Sometimes sister's even got aggressive. 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.160 Acting harshly to someone or hitting them or. 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:34.880 That's when did you see sisters head. 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:41.360 People inklcutta, you know. And I understand that it's very frustrating, 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:45.320 because you know, if you've got desperate people trying to 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.480 get things food and such, they'll be pushing. 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:53.720 Clatt couldn't get over the feeling that things could be 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:58.440 so much better, and it wasn't the first time she 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:26.559 felt that way. As a teenager, Collet Livermore plans to 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.400 study medicine, but then she watched Something Beautiful for. 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:34.479 God and I saw that movie and I thought, Oh, 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.640 I don't need to bother being a doctor anymore because 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.920 they don't need complicated medicine. They just need food. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.040 Clutt joined the EMCs, and it didn't take long for 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.000 her to have misgivings about their medical care, including the 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.600 care for sisters. In nineteen seventy seven, she was assigned 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.920 to a house in Papua New Guinea. She was twenty 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:57.280 two before she left. She says no one suggested she'd 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:01.239 take medication to prevent malaria, usually taken two weeks before travel. 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.920 When she arrived, she says she saw grief sons of 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.720 nuns who had died from malaria, so as soon as 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.199 she had a chance, she talked to mother Teresa about it. 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:13.199 I asked her, could we take something to prevent malaria? 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:19.679 And she said I I don't take anything. She trusts 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.800 in God, but I could take it if I wanted to. 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.200 Colette decided to take it, but it was too late. 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.199 One night, she felt incredibly cold. 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.760 My teeth were chattering. I had a terrible back pain, 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:35.480 terrible headache. 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.280 She didn't go to work that day, and she wasn't 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:39.120 getting any better. 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.600 I was arching, my back was arching, my tongue was 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:46.559 coming out involuntarily, and I could have died. 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.160 The sisters sent for a doctor. He said it was 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.760 cerebral malaria, which was extremely serious. 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:55.840 I didn't die. You'll be pleased to hear. 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.559 Another time, I was working with tuberculosis patients in the Philippines. 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:04.480 What she saw startled her. 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.640 There was a particular mistake where a wrong injection was given, 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.600 and I was horrified when I asked the sister, you know, well, 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:16.480 how much did you give? And they didn't even know 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:17.600 what dose they'd given. 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:20.880 Cross in fiction was a problem since patients were mixed 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.920 together in close quarters collect things. A lot of these 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.840 mistakes stem from this ams belief that the sisters shouldn't 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.840 have too much expertise. Expertise is an opportunity for pride, 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.880 and Mother Teresa believed ignorance was actually an advantage because 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:36.200 you're a vessel for God's will. 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.840 It was a sort of form of magical thinking. If 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:44.560 you obey God's will will be done through you in 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.600 some sort of magical way. Mother used to say it 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.120 was I'm just a pencil in his hands, like an 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:57.560 inanimate object. That's what they're told. Half the time, we 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.240 didn't know where we were going, and we were sent 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:05.679 away suddenly, so there was absolutely no preparation. 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.640 No language or cultural training. The other thing that troubled 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.080 her was how the vow of obedience affected their work. 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.840 You were supposed to obey, cheerfully, promptly and without question. 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.120 But what if you saw injustice or medical mistakes? Do 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:27.320 you speak up? Then one day and Manila sticks out 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:30.440 to her. The sisters had what they called at Tahanan, 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:33.640 a home for people who had tuberculosis and other illnesses. 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:41.200 And so a little boy came with his parents, and 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:45.440 his name was Alex, and he was very. 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:49.440 Sick, dehydrated and malnourished, with a fever and sepsis. 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:53.200 His skin was floppy and his eyes were sunken. 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:57.119 They weren't supposed to accept people on Thursdays. But Collette, 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.880 who was sister Tobit back then, spoke with the parents Anymay. 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:05.440 And the professed sister came out in a boiling rage, 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.960 saying Tobert, what are you doing here? I said, well, 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.640 this little boy is very ill and he's been rejected 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.280 by the hospital, and we need to help him. And 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:24.720 she said, so only you know what's right. And I said, look, 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:27.560 I don't really know what's right, but I just know 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.320 that this little child is going to die if we 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.360 don't do something. And she said, go back to the 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:40.240 Dahanna and I said no, no, I won't wow, And 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:45.920 she said I will help him this time, but you 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.080 do what you're told and go back to the Dahanna. 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:53.000 So callite dead and the child was admitted. They put 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.120 him on a drip with antibiotics and fluids. That night, 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:57.720 she snuck over to see how he was. 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:04.560 I remember carrying him outside into the knot and just 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:10.800 sort of thing, why why you know, to the blackness. 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:17.960 Next day was much much better. Yeah, he survives. He 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:19.200 became a fat little thing. 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:29.800 In fact, Collette's intervention wouldn't go unnoticed. About a month later, 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.480 she says, she walked into the dormitory and her bedroll 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:36.359 was gone. Someone had removed it, no warning, no explanation. 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:42.000 She'd been demoted from her post as novice mistress. She 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.160 says the conflict she felt inside her pierced through her 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:59.240 life like a thorn. Mother Teresa wrote a letter in 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.920 nineteen forty. As usual, there was one thing on her mind. 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.560 She said, during the year, very often, I have been 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.720 longing to be all for Jesus and to make other souls, 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:14.919 especially Indian come and love him fervently. Bringing souls to 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.840 Jesus sounds a lot like conversion to me, and Mother 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.119 Teresa used the word conversion in some of her letters. 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.240 According to Father Brian Kolodechuk, who edited her letters for publication, 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.480 she said, yes, I convert. I convert you to be 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.840 a better Hindu, or a better Muslim, or a better Protestant, 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.080 or a better Catholic, or a better Parsi, or a 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.080 better Sikh or a better Buddhist. And after you have 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.240 found God, it is for you to do what God 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:38.919 wants you to do. 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:46.960 When I first joined, the energy and the spirit of 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:55.880 the society was extremely powerful. It was never about converting people, but. 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:59.160 That didn't last. Sue Weber says, she's a former MC 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.479 who is a SUPERI in the early nineteen nineties. 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.960 The longer I stayed in the order, it started to 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:12.120 be about converting people. It became more about how many 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:13.240 people did you convert. 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.680 I heard from many, many people that this was happening 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:21.400 on a large scale that they were converting surpriitiously at 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:22.320 the point of death. 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:25.840 In his book, Rube Chattergy tells the story of one 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.600 former sister who says sisters were trained to ask a 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.359 dying person if they wanted a ticket to heaven, and 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:33.359 if they agreed to press a wet cloth to their 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:35.720 forehead and quietly baptize them, not. 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:42.800 One has died. Result Jesse session ticket was St. Peter. 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.920 We call it because tickets and Peter will not let 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:53.560 them go in we call baptism tickets was mister, this. 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:55.879 Is Mother Teresa. In nineteen ninety two, speaking at a 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:57.560 clinic in California. 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:01.400 We asked the person, do you runs you wanted blessing 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:06.560 by which your sins will be forgiven and you will 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:11.400 receive God. And they have never refuse. So twenty nine 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:15.160 thousand have died in that one house from the time 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.880 we began the work in nineteen fifty two. 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.240 And they were collecting the numbers because you get brownie 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:23.760 points if you convert. 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.400 Because it's so beautiful to see the people. 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:31.960 Die, so much joy, and it's actually a pretty lowly 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:36.000 thing to do to take advantage of somebody's altered mental 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.399 state and to exploit them like that. 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.439 Maybe the most repeated critique of Mother Teresa is that 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:51.280 you romanticized poverty. Christopher Hutchins put it this way, that 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.560 Mother Teresa was not a friend of the poor, She 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:58.119 was a friend of poverty. Chantony Chacerbarty, a professor of 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.479 history at the University of Kolcutta, says westerners ate her 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:02.200 story up. 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.960 I think the Western fascination with her was because she 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:13.000 was using the Indian sari as a projection of her 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:17.880 glorification of poverty. The sadi clad women on the streets 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:22.080 of Calcutta, working among destitute people living on the streets. 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:27.040 I think that fascinated a lot of Western people, trying 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:32.480 to project India as somewhat, you know, a place like Mars, 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:34.359 almost through chartategy. 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.000 Put it a little more strongly. 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:40.240 The West felt so smug and so glad that this 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:45.399 white woman who's a Catholic, very very rigid Catholic, was 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:49.359 looking after these disgusting, desperate people in a remote corner. 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:49.639 Of the world. 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.200 The Western interest in Mother Teresa's work led to a 0:20:57.240 --> 0:20:59.960 lot of donations. Some report tons of millions of dollars, 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:03.639 but the exact amount is unclear. The mcs don't reveal 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:07.520 their financial information, including to us we asked. When one 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.320 Forbes India reporter asked how much they receive in donations, 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.440 he was told, God knows, he is our banker. 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.480 We have a lot of money. A lot. 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.400 This is Sue Webber again. When she became a superior 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.000 at the Aid's Hospice in San Francisco, she got a 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.639 checkbook for the first time, but she says she couldn't 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:27.199 really use it. 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:29.960 I had to go through so many channels to get 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:34.520 like a refrigerator, a small refrigerator to put the men's 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:39.560 medicine in I had. I had access to an account 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.560 that had over fifty five million dollars in it, and 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:48.000 I couldn't buy a refrigerator as the superior of the house. 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:51.920 Collette Livermore, the former sister from Australia, put it this way. 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:54.360 We had plenty of money, but in the name of poverty, 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:57.520 we didn't want to use it. Instead, they begged. That's 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:01.199 what the sisters called it. Begging. They begged donated supplies, 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:04.919 whether food or medicine or clothes. Mother Teresa believed it 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.000 was a chance for the donor to come closer to christ. 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:11.879 So I was told with another sister to go look 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:12.840 at vehicles. 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:15.240 So you remembers when she was in the Bronx and 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:16.280 they needed a new car. 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:18.800 So we get there and we look at different vehicles 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.280 and there's a small jeep. So I call the house 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:24.520 and I said to the regional superiors, So we found 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:26.399 the vehicle and this is how much it costs. Can 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:29.080 we go ahead and purchase it? And she goes, no, 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.640 you should beg for it, and I was like what, 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:35.600 and I said, I'm not begging for it. I said, 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.280 we have the money, and I would have never had 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:42.919 a problem at all to beg for anything if we 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:43.680 didn't have it. 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:46.520 By begging for it, it's basically. 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:51.520 It's a lie because you're basically presenting that you need 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:55.840 something and you don't have the wherewithal to get it, right, 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:57.320 that's a lie. 0:22:57.800 --> 0:22:59.680 So you refused to beg for it, but she knew 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:01.440 she had to obey her regional superior. 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:03.359 So I said, this is exactly what I said to 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:06.119 the guy. So I said, hey, I'm just curious, like 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:08.240 would you give us that cheap? Would you just give 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.399 it to us? And he was like for free? And 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:14.800 I was like yeah, and he was like, well, don't 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:16.359 you have any money, And I go, oh, no, we 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:18.160 have plenty of money. I'm just curious if you would 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:20.119 just give it to us. And he started laughing and 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:22.560 he goes no, and I was like okay. So I 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:24.520 called back the region and I was like, they won't 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:27.440 give it to us for free, and then we ended 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:28.000 up buying it. 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:40.560 Mother Teresa often spoke of suffering, but critics asked how 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:43.760 much did you do to alleviate it. There's a particular 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:46.600 moment in an interview on William F. Buckley's firing Line 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:49.480 on PBS in nineteen eighty nine, where she tells the 0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:52.600 story of a woman who had cancer. The woman wasn't 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:55.600 terrible pain, but Mother Teresa told her that the pain 0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:57.760 was a sign that she had come so close to 0:23:57.840 --> 0:23:59.640 Jesus on the cross that he could kiss. 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.800 Her, and the lady, though she was in some great pain, 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:06.520 she joined their hands together and said, Mother Teresa, please 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:08.240 tell Jesus to stop kissing me. 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:13.080 As Mother Teresa tells this story, you can see that 0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:16.119 she's starting to smile. What's weird about this moment to 0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:18.919 me is hearing people laughing in the background. After this 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:21.640 woman says to Mother Teresa, please tell Jesus to stop 0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:24.560