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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions. Ah, welcome to it

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Speaker 1: could happen here a podcast where myself, Garrison Davis and

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Speaker 1: James Stout just created a new soon to be beloved

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Speaker 1: fiction character, Racist Sherlock's Holmes. And don't worry, We're not

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Speaker 1: done workshopping at It's not ready to go public yet.

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Speaker 1: But when this bit drops you people are gonna lose

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Speaker 1: your minds. Ah, how's everyone doing today?

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Speaker 2: Much better after learning about Racist Shadow comes?

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Speaker 1: Uh huh? After no, we didn't learn about him. He

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Speaker 1: burst fully formed from our heads like Athena from the

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Speaker 1: brain of Zeus. A good stuff. Speaking of the Greek

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Speaker 1: and Roman pagan pantheon, James Garrison, you know who does

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Speaker 1: kind of have the feel of a of a malevolent

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Speaker 1: spirit in Greek mythology, is Ron DeSantis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not wrong, Sure, Ron, that's what they call him.

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Speaker 3: After all my years study studying the papyrie, this is

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Speaker 3: I can't confirm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Meet ball Ron, I'm gonna I have a long

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Speaker 1: essay on my substack about how meet ball Ron and

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Speaker 1: the Egyptian deity Maat are are really uh directly related

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Speaker 1: to one another. But that that that'll, that'll you can

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Speaker 1: find that on my substack, my Egyptology focused substack.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's not what's his what's the god of the sun,

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Speaker 2: the god of the sun disk hm, the one they

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Speaker 2: tried to do a monotheism for.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that isn't that raw? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I can see seeing himself in those terms.

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Speaker 3: No, Maat like I think, is more of like a

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Speaker 3: Horus figure.

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Speaker 1: Actually yeah, I mean no, because Matt here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: Matt has wings uh and Ronda Santis is currently flying

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Speaker 1: over us, uh, shading us all in the comfort of

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Speaker 1: his of his mighty technicolor wingspan.

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Speaker 2: I'm seeing. Let's there's too many colors in these in

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Speaker 2: these in these wings.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know why we got onto it.

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Speaker 1: Comparing Ronda Santis to this was a mistake. Anyway, Garrison,

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Speaker 1: you just last week we closed out on two great

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Speaker 1: episodes about fash wave and uh, the adoption UH and

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Speaker 1: kind of reposting of a lot of these aesthetics that

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Speaker 1: had become popular on the far right via you know,

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Speaker 1: the dark brand and memes. And a big part of

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Speaker 1: that was how Ron de Santis somehow allowed some incredibly

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Speaker 1: internet poisoned zoomers to make an ad for him that

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Speaker 1: was far too online for a presidential campaign ad. And

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Speaker 1: I felt like it was time to kind of have

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Speaker 1: a discussion about meatball Ron because obviously things in Florida

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Speaker 1: are very ugly right now. As a fascist, which he

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Speaker 1: definitely is, Ronda Santis is an effective administrator, yeah, which

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Speaker 1: I mean he's good at twisting the administrative state that

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Speaker 1: exists into a weapon to attack marginalized groups. He's been

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Speaker 1: effective at that. What's happening legally, you know, in the laws,

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Speaker 1: you know a lot of the anti trans laws, the

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Speaker 1: anti drag laws in Florida is very frightening. What he's

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Speaker 1: been doing to the Florida education system, state education system

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Speaker 1: is very unsettling, And you know that is all of

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Speaker 1: that is worthy of further discussion. But I think because

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Speaker 1: the most immediate concern we have is like, is this

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Speaker 1: guy going to be able to do that on a

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Speaker 1: national scale? Right, Which is not to say that we

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Speaker 1: should just let Florida, you know, sink into the abyss.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe that. But at the moment, Ron de

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Speaker 1: Santis is tied for second place against Donald Trump. So

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Speaker 1: it kind of it behooves us to ask the questions

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Speaker 1: purely for the purpose of self defense. Can Ron de

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Speaker 1: Santis win? Right? Could he actually become not? Even the

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Speaker 1: first question is like could he become the Republican presidential candidate?

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Speaker 1: Can he beat Donald Trump? And the short good answer

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Speaker 1: to that is I don't think so. It's not looking good.

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Speaker 1: Not looking good for all Meatball. Ron agreed, and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to get into why and kind of some of

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Speaker 1: the fundamental flaws as a guy who is there was

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Speaker 1: kind of this belief fear, I think a reasonable fear

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Speaker 1: among a lot of liberals and folks on the left

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Speaker 1: that because of how effective he's been consolidating and expanding

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Speaker 1: his power in Florida, and because he's generally seemed like

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Speaker 1: less of a like Donald Trump, has certain competences as

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Speaker 1: an authoritarian. There's things he's very good at, but he

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Speaker 1: was not good at being the president. He was not

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Speaker 1: good at using power. He's not too much of a

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Speaker 1: fascist in a lot, He's not an effective fascist, right Like,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't good at picking people to like do things

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Speaker 1: for him. He wasn't good at He was good at

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Speaker 1: hurting people in a blunt way. But he was kind

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Speaker 1: of incompetent at rerat like a competent fascist, like Hitler

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Speaker 1: was a competent fascist, right he was not in there

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Speaker 1: long in an elected position before he had effectively made

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Speaker 1: it impossible to oust him without military force. And Trump

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Speaker 1: was never good at doing that stuff. And the worry

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Speaker 1: is that rond de Santis would be The good news

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Speaker 1: is that Rondi Santis is incompetent as a politician and

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Speaker 1: a political candidate. So I wanted to kind of start

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Speaker 1: with why a lot of his the people who do

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Speaker 1: form his base, which is quite shrinking at the moment,

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Speaker 1: he's losing a lot of support, why they thought he

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Speaker 1: was capable of winning the primary and the general. And

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Speaker 1: when you when you look into kind of why, a

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Speaker 1: lot of sort of Republican like legacy Republicans, the folks

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Speaker 1: who often get called Rhinos. Why a lot of them

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Speaker 1: decided to back Ron Dea Santis. The best summer you're

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Speaker 1: going to get comes from Phil Huffines, who is a

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Speaker 1: businessman in Texas whose car dealership ran a series of

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Speaker 1: ads that are like plasted forever in the memories of

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Speaker 1: everyone who lived in the DFW area in the late

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Speaker 1: nineties early two thousands, and in a CNN interview a

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Speaker 1: few days ago, he said this, when one looks objectively

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Speaker 1: at who can beat Biden, it's going to be DeSantis.

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Speaker 1: We already had a match with Biden and Trump. Trump

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Speaker 1: turns out Democrats better than anybody. DeSantis will be able

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Speaker 1: to articulate more clearly what Republicans stand for, and he's

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Speaker 1: not going to be bogged down in other stuff that

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Speaker 1: Trump brings to the election. I don't think that was

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Speaker 1: a logical thing to think a year ago, right, because

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Speaker 1: it is true that Trump turns out the dims. The

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Speaker 1: idea that like DeSantis isn't going to get bogged down

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Speaker 1: and shit has become kind of fundamentally silly. Like he's

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Speaker 1: gotten bogged down in the fact that a lot of

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Speaker 1: his you know, backers are invested in culture warship that

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Speaker 1: does not sell well on a national level. This whole

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Speaker 1: like anti trans crusade, on the anti woke shit is

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Speaker 1: not a big vote getter. It just gets the base

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Speaker 1: behind you, and like you're never going to beat Trump

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Speaker 1: in a race to the base. You know, Trump has

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Speaker 1: the core of the hard right Republican party in his

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Speaker 1: pocket and they're not gonna like move on from anybody. DeSantis'

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Speaker 1: hope should have been like going after independence, people on

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Speaker 1: the edge, people who are like unhappy with Biden. And

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Speaker 1: I think when you pick this sort of like hate crusade,

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Speaker 1: it hasn't worked well. But Huffines decided that, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this guy, this is the dude who has a shot.

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Speaker 1: I think he can actually like pull it out from Trump.

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Speaker 1: I think he's got the ability to like get a

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Speaker 1: lot of people in the middle or close to the middle.

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Speaker 1: This has been proven kind of absurd over the last

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Speaker 1: couple of months of stagnating poll numbers. Huffine says that

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Speaker 1: the governor recently held a meeting with about one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty Texas Republicans in Dallas, where he quote impressed

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Speaker 1: them with his stamina, youth, and performance in recent Florida

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Speaker 1: state elections and There's a number of reasons think that

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Speaker 1: this is a bad strategy that like really laying on

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Speaker 1: his performance in the last Florida election is like a

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Speaker 1: good way for him to win support. One of these

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Speaker 1: has to do with the fact that, like Florida is

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Speaker 1: the national watchword for crazy right, like like the rest.

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Speaker 4: Of their man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, even a lot of conservatives when they're talking about

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Speaker 1: like madness in America, they talk about Florida like Florida

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Speaker 1: man is an archetype and like, yeah, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of right wing culture warriors who like Ron's anti immigrant

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Speaker 1: and anti LGBT policies. But moderates and swing voters the

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Speaker 1: people he has a chance of pulling away from Trump.

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Speaker 1: Like if you tell them I want to make New

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Speaker 1: Hampshire more like Florida, most swing voters are going to

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Speaker 1: be like that sounds like hell, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: be anything like that place. Like what a horrible What

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Speaker 1: a horrible idea. This is a sentiment that you will

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Speaker 1: find among Republican thought leaders. Quote. One Republican consultant who

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Speaker 1: has worked on presidential campaign said DeSantis was making a

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Speaker 1: classic governor's mistake by talking extensively about his past accomplishments.

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Speaker 1: Put bluntly, people in Ohio or Iowa do not want

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Speaker 1: to be Florida. They don't care about Florida, and they

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Speaker 1: are tired of hearing about Florida.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because he's he's so reliant on the types of

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Speaker 3: covered to have come out during the past two years

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Speaker 3: of legislative stuff he's done in Florida, and he's I

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Speaker 3: guess forgetting the overall view of that people have of

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Speaker 3: Florida divorced from his own administrative changes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like people are moving in droves to

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Speaker 2: Florida Bay because he's defeated the woke menace and he's

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Speaker 2: created a paradise. Like, yeah, he's getting high on his

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Speaker 2: own supply.

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Speaker 1: He's getting high on his own supply. It's one thing.

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Speaker 1: There's a degree of his campaign that's focused on like

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Speaker 1: what he calls like the Florida Miracle, the fact that

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Speaker 1: Florida economically weathered COVID pretty well. And again, this would

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Speaker 1: be a stronger point if like Florida's economy was booming

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Speaker 1: and everywhere else was bad. But the US economy overall,

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Speaker 1: in terms of like the numbers that you know economists

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Speaker 1: care about allies is like doing reasonably well, and like,

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Speaker 1: of the shit that is bad in the US economy,

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Speaker 1: it's not any better, Like inflation is not better markedly

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Speaker 1: better in Florida than it is in Iowa. Right, there's

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Speaker 1: just not a good case to be made because like

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Speaker 1: when you're not when you can't really drive the economic

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Speaker 1: point home, when you can't be like, look at how

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Speaker 1: much better Flora is doing than your home. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a fucking paradise compared to the you know,

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Speaker 1: shitty economy in Ohio. That's an argument you can make

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Speaker 1: if there's any evidence for it. But when you're like,

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Speaker 1: you can't really make the economic argument. It all comes

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Speaker 1: down to culture war stuff, and most Americans don't want

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Speaker 1: this culture war shit going on in their backyard because

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Speaker 1: it's like a gross, weird pain in the ass. So

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Speaker 1: right now, the bulk of DeSantis support comes from higher income,

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Speaker 1: old guard Republicans, the kind of were lukewarm for Trump

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Speaker 1: from the beginning, and the kind to point out rightfully

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Speaker 1: that he didn't win against Biden and it is time

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Speaker 1: for new blood. This is true, but current polling indicates

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Speaker 1: it's not what most GOP voters want, which is kind

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Speaker 1: of the big problem the Republicans have is that this

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Speaker 1: is why Trump's definitely gonna win, you know, as the

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Speaker 1: primary campaign, is that like the hardcore of the GOP

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Speaker 1: cannot be overcome by the moderates because the hardcore is

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Speaker 1: so in lockstep about what they want, and what they

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Speaker 1: want is Trump. The moderates don't have control of the party,

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Speaker 1: but the moderates are the ones who can like actually

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Speaker 1: win a general election. So yeah, it's a tough situation

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Speaker 1: for them to be in. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: that kind of shows how fucked Ron is is that,

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Speaker 1: like Ron won reelection in Florida in his last cubernatorial

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Speaker 1: campaign by about twenty points a year or so ago.

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Speaker 1: In Florida, Trump currently has a twenty point lead on him.

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Speaker 3: Not great, not great, No.

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Speaker 1: That's a disaster, like because again not only like should

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Speaker 1: you be able to bring in your home state as

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Speaker 1: a sitting governor, but like it shows that Ron is

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Speaker 1: not popular because of his legislative achievements. He's popular because

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Speaker 1: Florida is just that right wing right. Like that's like

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Speaker 1: currently like the electoral state or status of Florida is

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Speaker 1: very conservative, and so Ron won by an overwhelming margin,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean people love him. They definitely like

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Speaker 1: Trump more than they like him. Bad situation to be in,

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Speaker 1: and a number of early backers in DeSantis's orbit have

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Speaker 1: begun to acknowledge this reality. I'm gonna quote from NBC

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Speaker 1: News here. Yeah, there are a number of people grumbling

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Speaker 1: about it, no doubt. A Desantist downer said, there is

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Speaker 1: an overall sense, including with me, that he just is

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Speaker 1: not ignited the way we thought he would. And I

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Speaker 1: find that really interesting because you get versions of that

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Speaker 1: a lot that like we were expecting him to really

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Speaker 1: take off as soon as he started campaigning, and he hasn't,

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Speaker 1: and that was our only strategy. You get this, and

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Speaker 1: like if you read interviews with like folks who were

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Speaker 1: in the DeSantis orbit and people because a number of

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Speaker 1: his early backers have like peeled away and rescinded their

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Speaker 1: their endorsements and given them the Trump it was this

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Speaker 1: hope they had that like once as soon as he's

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Speaker 1: out in front of America, Americans are going to love

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Speaker 1: this guy because he's all the good stuff about Trump

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Speaker 1: with none of the baggage. And that was just fundamentally

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Speaker 1: disastrously wrong. And I think one of the things we're

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Speaker 1: starting to see is that the Dysantis people didn't have

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Speaker 1: another plan for how to get this guy elected. Like

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Speaker 1: their plan was that we think that Trump's policies are popular,

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Speaker 1: but everyone doesn't like Trump, and no, that's actually not accurate.

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Speaker 2: The opposite of true. Almost like some of them just

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Speaker 2: like Trumps as a person.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of them don't care about what he's done.

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Speaker 1: They like the fact that he owns the Libs, right,

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Speaker 1: They're not.

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Speaker 3: Thinking about he's a compelling character. Yeah, DeSantis is a

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Speaker 3: void of charisma. He is he is not a compelling character.

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Speaker 3: He's actually like he's good at being like an administrator

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Speaker 3: and like like yeah, he's like he's very successful in

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Speaker 3: doing bad things.

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Speaker 1: And he's a guy you make your chief of staff

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Speaker 1: if you're yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: He's not like, he's not a compelling character like the

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Speaker 3: way Trump is.

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Speaker 1: No, and it's it's again, it's so fascinating to me.

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Speaker 1: It says a lot about like the degree of bubble

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Speaker 1: all of the political class are in. And when I

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Speaker 1: say the political class, I mean the people the fairly

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Speaker 1: small number of people in the left and the right,

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Speaker 1: liberals and conservatives who work on political campaigns, right, because

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Speaker 1: it's actually a pretty small community of people, of the

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Speaker 1: folks who do the different jobs that are running political

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Speaker 1: campaigns and that are like working as the age and

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Speaker 1: legislative assistants and all that stuff for elected leaders. And

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Speaker 1: because to me, to just a guy sitting out there,

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Speaker 1: like I'm worried about Ron because what he's doing in Florida.

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Speaker 1: But from the moment I saw the guy speak, I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, this man has no charisma whatsoever. And

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Speaker 1: if you can't think about like how a guy could

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Speaker 1: attract voters. If there's nothing that seems appealing about a

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Speaker 1: candidate to you, if you can't understand their charisma, that's

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Speaker 1: probably a good sign that they can't get elected. I

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Speaker 1: am not mystified by why any president who was won

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Speaker 1: in my lifetime won, right. George W. I've been in

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Speaker 1: a room with George W. Bush and watched him spoke

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Speaker 1: to in immediately made sense why people fucking love George W.

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Speaker 4: Bush.

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Speaker 1: He had an attitude, he had an air that put

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Speaker 1: people at ease. He was good at putting on a

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Speaker 1: character that people found appealing in that time and place.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason why so many voters who loved him

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Speaker 1: you know, especially after the first campaign where it was

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Speaker 1: kind of a but like, there's a reason why he

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Speaker 1: got re elected, Like there's And it's the same thing

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Speaker 1: with like Bill Clinton. Right, you watch old videos of

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Speaker 1: Bill Clinton on the campaign trail before he was president.

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Speaker 1: You can see the charisma, you can see the way

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Speaker 1: he connects to audiences, you can see the things about

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Speaker 1: him that people find appealing. There's not a mystery. It's

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Speaker 1: not mysterious why Obama got elected. He's a deeply charismatic man.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Joe needed a little bit of help,

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Speaker 1: that's why he lost so many presidential campaigns beforehand. But

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Speaker 1: next to Donald Trump, he seems like a much more

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Speaker 1: appealing person. Like, I'm not mystified, and I'm not mystified

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Speaker 1: by why Trump got elected. Next to Hillary Clinton, Trump

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Speaker 1: felt not like a politician, not like the same people

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Speaker 1: who would let us down. There was this degree to

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Speaker 1: which like, you should never be you should if you're

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Speaker 1: looking at like whether or not someone can win an election,

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Speaker 1: you should never be like, well, I don't get it,

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Speaker 1: but I guess maybe they have. They must have some

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Speaker 1: sort of charisma because everybody's talking about them as a

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Speaker 1: serious candidate now Honestly, if you can't see anything about

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Speaker 1: appealing about a candidate, then that might be a good

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Speaker 1: sign that they're doomed. And I think DeSantis is fucking doomed.

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Speaker 1: And this is kind of a thing that a lot

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Speaker 1: of his early backups has started to realize. One DeSantis

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Speaker 1: aligned operative told NBC, from my understanding, if we don't

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Speaker 1: see a bump in the polls, we're basically going to

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Speaker 1: shut down the idea of a national operation. This is

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Speaker 1: really something that we're probably going to see. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be surprised if he kind of has a blowout politically

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Speaker 1: pretty early in the primary season next year, because he

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Speaker 1: raised a lot of money earlier in his campaign. He

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Speaker 1: raised about twenty million or so between mid May and

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Speaker 1: the end of June of this year, which actually put

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Speaker 1: him ahead fundraising wise of Trump by about two million

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Speaker 1: or so. But the Trump campaign ended last quarter with

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Speaker 1: twice as much cash on hand as Wrong Alongside is

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Speaker 1: still dominating lead in the poll. So Ron has raised

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Speaker 1: a lot of money, which kind of speaks to the

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Speaker 1: number of sort of like Republican you know, institutional backers

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Speaker 1: who hoped that he could win where Trump had failed.

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Speaker 1: But he blew all that shit, and it didn't get

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Speaker 1: him anything right, Like he didn't raise a b Like

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Speaker 1: he crept up a teeny amount in the polls, but

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Speaker 1: he's still like tied for second with Donald Trump despite

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Speaker 1: blowing all of that money. And I think we're going

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Speaker 1: to reach a point pretty quickly where if he doesn't

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Speaker 1: immediately take you know, a state or two or three

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Speaker 1: from Trump in the early primaries, any kind of hope

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Speaker 1: he has for further donations is going to dry up, because, like,

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Speaker 1: why would you keep wasting that money. We all saw

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Speaker 1: how much money he got wasted trying to take Trump

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Speaker 1: out of the primaries in twenty sixteen. I do think

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Speaker 1: people are going to be a little more gun shy

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Speaker 1: this time. There have already been a number of recent

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Speaker 1: layoffs of major staffers by DeSantis. He's kind of purged

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Speaker 1: a big chunk of the people who started his campaign.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that's a little interesting about him

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Speaker 1: in his political career is that as a politician, he

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Speaker 1: has always been kind of noted as kind of weird

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Speaker 1: within Florida politics because every election he's had, he's had

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Speaker 1: an entirely new team of people. He does not work

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Speaker 1: with the same people twice. He does not have like

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Speaker 1: bring people back for his campaigns, which is really unusual

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Speaker 1: in US politics for a successful politicans. When you win,

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Speaker 1: you tend to bring him back a lot of the

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Speaker 1: same people who helped you win the last time. And

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Speaker 1: so the fact that Ron doesn't do that, that he's

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Speaker 1: got such basically one hundred percent churn in his teams

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Speaker 1: suggests a couple of things. One, he's not great to

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Speaker 1: work with, and two, the people who work with him

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Speaker 1: and have been successful and are good don't see him

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Speaker 1: as someone with national potential. Right They don't want to

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Speaker 1: keep working with him because then they get kind of

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Speaker 1: trapped in the loop of being a DeSantis guy. They

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Speaker 1: want to move on somewhere rounse else because they think

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Speaker 1: governor is as high as this guy can go. You know,

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Speaker 1: Like that is kind of one of the things that

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Speaker 1: you see when you note this dude has such total

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Speaker 1: turnover in his fucking teams. Now again, for all of

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Speaker 1: the money that he spent, Ron's polling numbers have changed

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Speaker 1: basically nil from when he announced his candidacy. According to

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Speaker 1: New York Magazine, kind of coalated a bunch of this

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Speaker 1: together in the real clear Politics average of polls starting

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Speaker 1: July first, twenty twenty two, Trump had a thirty four

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Speaker 1: point lead over Ron DeSantis and fifty two point eight

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Speaker 1: percent of the vote in national surveys, with DeSantis at

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Speaker 1: eighteen point five At present, he's got Trump's lead over

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Speaker 1: to Santas. So a year ago, Trump had a thirty

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Speaker 1: four point lead over to Santis. Now he's at thirty two,

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Speaker 1: which is not the speed of movement that you want

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Speaker 1: to see. After a year of effectively campaigning. On the

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Speaker 1: national surveys, DeSantis has gone from eighteen point five percent

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Speaker 1: to about twenty one percent, which again is just kind

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Speaker 1: of like a disaster rate of change. Now this is

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Speaker 1: just one pole. There's probably potentially outliers here. I've seen

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Speaker 1: other polls that show DeSantis at more like twelve percent

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Speaker 1: and tied with Vivic Ramaswami, who is another GOP candidate.

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Speaker 1: Like the fact that Vivek, who is not nearly the

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Speaker 1: kind of national name that DeSantis is, is tied with

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Speaker 1: him and some polls now is fucking disastrous. He and

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Speaker 1: Trump are pretty close in terms of funding. Vivek has

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Speaker 1: raised only a fraction of what DeSantis has raged so

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty bad sign kind of a fucking disaster.

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Speaker 1: One major area in which Ron lags behind Trump is

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Speaker 1: his ability to draw interest and what amounts to free

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Speaker 1: advertising from the media. Trump famously got about a billion

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Speaker 1: dollars in free publicity in twenty sixteen thanks to relentless

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Speaker 1: media coverage of his every move, gaff and speech. He

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Speaker 1: understood it didn't matter if it was negative. It didn't

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Speaker 1: matter that they were shit talking to me. What matters

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Speaker 1: that they're keeping my face out front, right, this is

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Speaker 1: a thing that will bring me support, It will bring

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Speaker 1: me donors, It will make my supporters see me as

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Speaker 1: like this kind of gladiator fighting for them. He leaned

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Speaker 1: into this shit. On the surface, Ron and Trump are

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Speaker 1: kind of the same in their approach to the media,

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Speaker 1: and that if you go to a Assantis speech, you

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Speaker 1: go to a Trump speech, they're going to call the

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Speaker 1: media the enemy of the people or some variant thereof.

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Speaker 1: They're going to talk about the need to control the press.

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Speaker 1: They're going to like support authoritarian measures against like free

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Speaker 1: you know, the free press. Like again, if you're kind

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Speaker 1: of just looking on the surface, it seems like they

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Speaker 1: have the same attitude towards the media. But the way

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Speaker 1: they treat journalists is completely different, and that DeSantis has

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Speaker 1: no strategy with the media. He just attacks them. If

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Speaker 1: you're if you're right wing media, if you're some podcaster

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Speaker 1: he likes, He'll go on your show, he'll talk to you.

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Speaker 1: But he ignores the liberal media. He ignores the mainstream media.

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Speaker 1: But that's that's different from having a tactic for dealing

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Speaker 1: with them. Trump has a strategy with the media. He

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Speaker 1: will howl that they're the enemy of the people in

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Speaker 1: front of crowds. He'll talk about locking up journalists. But

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Speaker 1: if you like read articles about him after a speech

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Speaker 1: or whatever, he always gives the press their time. He

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Speaker 1: knows a lot of these guys by name. He has

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Speaker 1: relationships with reporters. He's had relationships with like Maggie Haberman

433
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: of The Times. He's he's able to be like friendly

434
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 1: with these people and social with them, which isn't like,

435
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: doesn't make it's not doing that to be a good person.

436
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: He's doing it because like he wants them to feel

437
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 1: comfortable around him and cover him.

438
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 3: And like and this is this is the thing that

439
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 3: he's been doing longer than he's been a politician. Like

440
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,199
Speaker 3: Trump is primarily like a media guy like he is.

441
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 3: He is someone who's been able to very successfully manipulate

442
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 3: public image and manipulate media in his favor for years,

443
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 3: especially as like he's not like a good businessman, He's like, no,

444
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 3: he's like a con man who was like really good.

445
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 3: He's a good promoter, so like he knows how to

446
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 3: do this. DeSantis has none of this background, So he's

447
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,479
Speaker 3: just trying to copy like the hostile vibe of Trump

448
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 3: without understanding the action like media backing that Trump puts

449
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 3: into his UH, into his like relationship with UH, with

450
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 3: like with like advertising and with having you know, any

451
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 3: any amount of coverage that will get Republicans be like, oh,

452
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 3: this is a guy that's worth voting for.

453
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And well also that will the kind of coverage

454
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: that will make independence pay attention to him.

455
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:20,719
Speaker 2: Right.

456
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: A big thing part of how a lot of negative

457
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: media coverage worked for Trump is that people would just

458
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: see his name in the fucking news, and you know,

459
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 1: so they would wind up reading and listening to a

460
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: lot of what he had to say. And because like,

461
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: you know, he's getting so much coverage, and because all

462
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: of these media outlets have one to want to present

463
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: the image of being unfair and unbiased. Like when Trump

464
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: would go out and sit down with the New York Times,

465
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: sit down with the Posted down, he would often get

466
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: coverage that like, let him say his piece, let him

467
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: make his case, like they would because they didn't want

468
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: to feel like they were being biased, and he was

469
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: giving them some of his time. But when you just

470
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: cut the media off like the Santis has done, you

471
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: don't get that from them. You don't get any of

472
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 1: like the benefit of this sort of like idea of impartiality,

473
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: which cuts down on your ability to actually like reach

474
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: people who might be converted to vote for you. This

475
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: is highlighted particularly well in a segment from a recent

476
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 1: New York Times article on Dessanta's difficulty getting press coverage. Quote.

477
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: Assigned to cover the reelection campaign of Governor Ron de

478
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 1: Santis of Florida, Miles Cohen, a young ABC News reporter,

479
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: found himself stymied. The governor would not grant him an interview,

480
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 1: aids barred him from some campaign events, and interrupted his

481
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: conversations with supporters. When mister Cohen was finally able to

482
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: ask a question about the governor's handling of Hurricane Ian,

483
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: mister DeSantis shouted him down, stop stop, stop, and scolded

484
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: the media for trying to cast dispersions. The Dessanta's campaign

485
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: then taunted mister Cohen on Twitter, prompting a torrent of

486
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 1: online vitriol. So on election night, mister Cohen de camp

487
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 1: to a friendlier environment for the news media mar A Lago,

488
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: where former President Donald J. Trump greeted reporters by name.

489
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: He came up to us, asked how the sandwiches were,

490
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: and took twenty questions. Mister Cohen recalled mister Trump, who

491
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: heckled the fake news in his speech that evening elevated

492
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: media bashing into a high art for Republicans. But ahead

493
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: of the next presidential race, potential candidates like mister DeSantis

494
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: are taking a more radical approach, not just attacking nonpartisan

495
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: news sources but out ignoring them altogether. And yeah, I

496
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: think that kind of like gets at the core of

497
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: what a bad strategy this is. And it shows all

498
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: of the Republicans right now because of Trump's success in

499
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, which we do have to remember, was not

500
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: based on converting a majority of Americans. It was based

501
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: in part on like the electoral system and just raw

502
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: luck that shit broke the way it did. But they

503
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: are looking at like his success in twenty sixteen and

504
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: trying to copy that. But it's like a cargo cult thing, right,

505
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: they don't actually understand what he did that work. They

506
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: see him bashing the media and his speech is They're like, well,

507
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be even harder. I'm not going to talk

508
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 1: to the media at all. And it's like, well, you

509
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: have eliminated for yourself the primary benefit that Trump true

510
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: out from this.

511
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the corga cult de script is great.

512
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 2: They're like they're trying to have the appearance of doing

513
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: the Trump thing with now understanding why, yeah, the thing worked.

514
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 3: And like also importantly, it's not like twenty sixteen anymore.

515
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 3: As much as it feels like twenty sixteen was the

516
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 3: here that never ended, Actually a lot has changed and

517
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: also a lot of media has gotten a bit wise

518
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 3: to the tactics that Trump did. Like they're no longer

519
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 3: going to be blasting all of his speeches every time

520
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 3: he says something outrageous because they know that's part of

521
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 3: his strategy. So, yeah, the same tactics. If de Santis

522
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 3: thinks heason to get publicity for saying some horrible thing

523
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 3: in his speech. The media knows what's up now, like

524
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: they've already seen this like playbook get played. It's not

525
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 3: like it's you can't treat it like eight years ago.

526
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think a good example of this is in

527
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, if it had come out, if Joe Biden

528
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: had been the front writer, say he beats you know,

529
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, but everything else is the same, So he's

530
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: the he's the Democratic primary guy. Say it comes out

531
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: that his son has been smoking crack with prostitutes, and

532
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: like there's pictures of his hog everywhere and he was

533
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: involved in So he gets charges against him for commit

534
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: a couple of crimes that might sink a presidential campaign

535
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, nobody gives a shit about Hunter Biden,

536
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: Like zero moderate it's not a single vote is being

537
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: changed as a result of the Hunter Biden situation in

538
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: twenty twenty or it's a different landscape and these people haven't.

539
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: This is a good thing. I am frightened for when

540
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: a new you know, there's another coup in conservative politics

541
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: and somebody understands that it's a different year. Yeah, but

542
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: we are fortunate at this moment, and you know who

543
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: else is fortunate.

544
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 2: Who's that robot?

545
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: The sponsors of this podcast, they're fortunate to have great

546
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: pitchmen like James Stout. James, why don't you tell the

547
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: people which meal box subscription will finally cure the gnawing

548
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: pit of anxiety at the center of their life and

549
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: bring them both both peace and the love of Jesus Christ.

550
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, absleutely, we're pretty gonna have to uh, we're gonna

551
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 2: have to bleet some shit out here, but absolutely, I

552
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: personally love been a big chicken wing fam my whole

553
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 2: life until the baby's arms from the Apron arrived. They

554
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: are delicious, little little fatty arms from freshly harvested babies,

555
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: and I've felt better inside and out since I started

556
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 2: eating children. Yeah, just remember our motto, nothing's wafficking like

557
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: human trafficking.

558
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 4: Shit.

559
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 3: Go to HelloFresh dot com use promo code children Arms

560
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 3: for a ten percent discount.

561
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: Of blue Apron. Actually cut hell afresh there. They're giving

562
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: us a lot of money. It's blue Apron. We shit on. Ah,

563
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: we're back, and we're thinking about how there's one food

564
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: box company who's been accused of a lot of malfeasance

565
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: and another food box company. Who are I think it's

566
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: safe to say Christ like, you know, honestly and Jesus.

567
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 3: Jesus inspired to at the very least.

568
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, the reason Jesus actually rose from the dead

569
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: was to consume a breakfast. That's right by Blue Apron.

570
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: Mmmmmmmm Jesus, big omelet guy, huge omlet guy. Anyway, I

571
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: don't know, that's not really a joke. So Ron DeSantis

572
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: has long ignored any media not guaranteed to be fawningly

573
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: indulgent of him for political reasons. This worked well in Florida.

574
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: He's been able to get by by attacking centrist in

575
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: liberal media and embracing a constellation of far right podcasters

576
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: and Fox News. But Florida is not the United States,

577
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: and a governor's race is not a federal election. He

578
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: simply can't succeed against Trump with the same tactics that

579
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: worked in Florida's or against Florida's anemic state Democratic Party.

580
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: When he's tried to rebut the naysayers who see his

581
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: cause as largely doomed, DeSantis has tried to publicly downplay

582
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: the significance of national polls. It is one of my

583
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: favorite things whenever people point out, like, your polls have

584
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: not moved in a year, and you've spent millions and

585
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: millions of dollars. He'll be like, I don't trust those polls.

586
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: Those polls don't really matter. You can't trust the poll

587
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: to get how wrong the polls were in twenty sixteen articles.

588
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 3: I've seen him use that line a lot. Look, yeah,

589
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 3: how wrong the polls were in twenty sixteen?

590
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: Okay, Ron, Yeah, I don't think they were not off

591
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: by thirty four points. You can see clearly how he's

592
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: making his case currently to donors in private. Because a

593
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: memo that he's sent out to a bunch of his

594
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: high dollar donors leaked recently. There's been a number of

595
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: websites that have written about it, but we have like

596
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: this memo, which is fascinating. It was sent out to

597
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: a bunch of big dollar donors to a superpack. So

598
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: these are the people who are not limited by like

599
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: campaign contributions because it's due a super pack. So these

600
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: are like the thick pockets people. So we get an

601
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: idea of how he is marketing his campaign right now

602
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: that it's in a crisis, and it starts with a

603
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: state of the race update with a subtitle, the ballot

604
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: is very fluid. Early state voters are only softly committed

605
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: to the candidates they select on a ballot question this

606
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: far out, including many Trump supporters. Our focused group participants

607
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: in the Early States even say they don't plan on

608
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: making up their mind they meet the candidates or watch

609
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: them debate. Well, we know Trump's flor is twenty five percent.

610
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,959
Speaker 1: That leaves three quarters of the electorate willing to consider

611
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: other viable options. What has not changed to the candidates

612
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: who are realistically being courted by the electorate. As it

613
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: has been for the last year, Trump and DeSantis remain

614
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: the only viable options for two thirds of the likely

615
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: Republican primary electorate. While Tim Scott has earned a serious

616
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: look at this stage as Bio is lacking the fight

617
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: that our electorate is looking for in the next president.

618
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: We expect Tim Scott to receive appropriate scrutiny. In the

619
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: weeks of HEEAD. We found low to no interest in Vivek,

620
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: Bergham and Nikki, while too many voters will not consider

621
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: Pincer Christie for them to be remotely viable. Now I

622
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: agree about pens and Christie. Neither of those people is

623
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: going to be the primary candidate. But again Vivek and

624
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: some polls is right up there with Ronda Santis. So yeah,

625
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: note that neither of them is gonna win.

626
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 3: Great scigncet.

627
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 5: Yeah.

628
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: The mimo goes on to note and to sort of

629
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: admit that their efforts and other primary states have hit

630
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: a wall, and they're basically like, we're given up in

631
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: Iowa and Ohio kind of We're not going to be

632
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: putting new resources into them. We're just going to throw

633
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: everything we've got into New Hampshire. There's a couple of

634
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: reasons for this, but I think it's largely that they

635
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: don't think they can win in those other early states,

636
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: and they know they desperately need an early wind to

637
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: have any hope of building up momentum. Yeah. Language like

638
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: this from the memo has to have experienced Republican politico's nervous.

639
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: While Super Tuesday is critically important, we will not dedicate

640
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: resources to Super Tuesday. That's slow our momentum in New Hampshire.

641
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: We expect to revisit this investment in the fall. I'm

642
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: sure you will not a great sign, guys, the memo.

643
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 3: I'm sure you'll be revisiting a lot of things in

644
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: the fall.

645
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: The memo also claims Governor DeSantis and his messager thriving

646
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: in town hall engagements. So basically, when Ron gets in

647
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: front of people, they see his magnetic charisma. They really

648
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: like him once he gets a chance to shine in

649
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: front of them. Now, there's been no evidence in polling

650
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: he's been in front of people quite a bit, and

651
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: he's not very impressive. Most of the social media response

652
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: to his public appearances have been people making fun of

653
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: the way he eats in public. Like there's like six

654
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: or seven different videos out that are him trying to

655
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: eat something and looking like a goober and people making

656
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: fun of him, Whereas like again, Trump has because he's

657
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: actually charismatic. Trump can like sit in a truck and

658
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: look like a dufus playing truck driver and everybody's like,

659
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: look at that guy. Even people who hate him are like, well,

660
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: that's kind of endearing. Look at him. He's hogging the horn.

661
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: He's pretended to be a big truck driver.

662
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 4: You know.

663
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: Meatball Ron. I mean we call him meatball Ron because

664
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: of a food related gaff. Putting Ron to putting Ron too.

665
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: He's just a disaster in public. There are some useful

666
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: bits in this leaked document. This is the part of

667
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: the document where the Desanta's campaign is like trying to

668
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: lay out what they see as his assets as a candidate.

669
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: And again, the goal of this is to get big

670
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: dollar donors to give him more money. So this is

671
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: them making the case as to why Ron is worth

672
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: further investment. We found that when voters hear about the

673
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: governor's bio, principally as a dad and as a veteran,

674
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: they like him and are open to hearing more about him.

675
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: This is to say nothing of his successes on parental rights,

676
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: his leadership bringing Florida's economy back during and after COVID,

677
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: fighting illegal immigration, and ensuring Border Act security. That he's

678
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: not just a fighter, but most importantly a winner. A

679
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: major paid media effort featuring the governor's bio will help

680
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,959
Speaker 1: us to convert three big issues that you know. That's again,

681
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: so the three big issues he's highlighting that he says like,

682
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: these are the things that are going to get voters

683
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: onto us enough of them that we can overcome Trump's

684
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: twenty five percent floor. Our anti immigration stuff. Well, I'm sorry, man,

685
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: Trump's got you beat there. The wall is his right.

686
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: Descentist has tried to go one step further. And if

687
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: you saw his press conference in Texas where he.

688
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: Is the birthrights teamship thing, yeah.

689
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: No to shooting people.

690
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

691
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: I think he said quite drop a few of them.

692
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's trying to. But again, he just talked about

693
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: what's interesting to me. He opens this memo by starting like, look,

694
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: Trump's got a twenty five percent floor of support, but

695
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: you know there's that other three quarters of people we

696
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 1: can get. And yet when you are talking about gunning

697
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: people down at the border, you're just trying to take

698
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 1: that twenty five percent from Trump. You are not reaching

699
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: out to like the people who are less maniac, right,

700
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: he's trying. Like again, it's just bad strategy. It's a

701
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: bad strategy within the context of what his people have

702
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 1: laid out as a strategy. Right, Like, if the good

703
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: strategy is go for the other seventy five percent of

704
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: the voters, well you probably don't do that by promising

705
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: to be even harder on the border.

706
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he doesn't really even have like obviously Trump

707
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 2: didn't have a coherent border policy either, but he had

708
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 2: a thing, right, Like he had a sort of shiny

709
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 2: thing that.

710
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 3: He had three words that were very power build the wall.

711
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: And you know, if desantists thinks Americans are ready for

712
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: shoot them, all right, you can try that. But he's not.

713
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: He's like trying to do this weasel thing anyway. It's

714
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: just not there's just not any evidence of an actual

715
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: tactic there of an understanding of like what people find

716
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: appealing and how to highlight it. He's not doing it yet.

717
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: He's not if you're a donor, he's not exhibiting the

718
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: idea that he knows how to copy what Trump did

719
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: and do it one better, like your goal here at

720
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: if you're running against Trump based on kind of what

721
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: they lay out, is what their strategy needs to be,

722
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: which is get the other seventy five percent of people

723
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: to back us instead of Trump. You need to be

724
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: you don't need to be yes ending you are acknowledging

725
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: by laying that out as the strategy that Trump his

726
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: appeal is. He's got a dedicated base of appeal, but

727
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: it's limited, and so if you are trying to make

728
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: the case that you're more electable than him, you need

729
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: to show how you have a wider base of like

730
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: a whiter repeal than he does. And you don't do

731
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: that by being like, I'm even shittier on the border

732
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: like anyway, just a bad strategy since he doesn't have

733
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: a strong case to make an absolute numbers. Ron's campaign

734
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: has made the call to push heavily on the forgotten

735
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: Man narrative, arguing a soft conspiratorial view that a cabal

736
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: of shady elites is colluding to ruin American greatness. Here's

737
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 1: another quote from that memo. Equally important, we will offer

738
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: an economic message to disrupt and win economy voters. American

739
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: decline was not an accident. It was a choice. Our

740
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 1: elites do not consider themselves Americans so much as they

741
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: think of themselves as citizens of the world. Their loyalty

742
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: is not to a discrete nation, but to the bottom

743
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: line on a balance sheet, and the decisions they made

744
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: in leading this country over the past few decades has

745
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: reflected that worldview. They have governed in their interests rather

746
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: than ours. And I do think there's a germ of

747
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 1: something interesting there. There's this idea of like economic populism,

748
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: which was a factor in Trump's campaign. It's interesting to

749
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: me how close Ron's idea is to like outright anti

750
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: Semitic conspiracy theory language, like, yeah, they don't recognize borders. Uh,

751
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: they're citizens of the world, which is a you know,

752
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: very similar to a lot of the arguments that like

753
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: the Nazis would make about the Jews, is that like

754
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: they're a borderless people who exist within this like financial

755
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: system rather than like our national like co citizens. Right,

756
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: it's interesting to me that he's got that this in

757
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: that memo. Again, I don't think it's a good strategy.

758
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: I think the way Trump, Trump's just better at doing

759
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: this right at like he's made himself like there's a

760
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: lot of people who consider Trump like their kind of guy,

761
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: like a working class dude, even though he's a billionaire

762
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: with a gold toilet. I don't see that DeSantis has

763
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: the ability to like win that kind of support from

764
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: working people.

765
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 6: Now.

766
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 2: He tried really hard to go to push his like

767
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 2: his military record as part of a like, yeah, sort

768
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 2: of I'm a normal dude kind of think, but it

769
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: doesn't seem to have stuck the landing at all. Again,

770
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: he just yeah, I just did it in a clumsy

771
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: and awkward way.

772
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in part because like the thing he's

773
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: got to hang on like that he was this fucking

774
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: dude doing sketchy shit at Guantanamo. Isn't like even conservatives

775
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: don't feel great about that, right.

776
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, he tried earlier to push like he was a leaguer,

777
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,959
Speaker 2: he was a JAG officer, like attached to a seal team.

778
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, he tried to call himself a seal.

779
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

780
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 2: I think he Like, I think he flew a little

781
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 2: bit too close to the sun on that one. And

782
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 2: again like he fucked up and alienated the people he

783
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 2: was trying to appeal to.

784
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: And I also I do kind of wonder it was

785
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: like sort of taking his red for some time that

786
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: having military experience was like a positive aspect in a

787
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: in a campaign that it would like win you a

788
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: lot of conservative voters and whatnot. I don't know that

789
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: that's really the case. Yeah, see a lot of evidence

790
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: for it, Like people certainly shout it when they serve,

791
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: but I don't know that it really works for them.

792
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 7: Yeah.

793
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: I think that's more of a like a I don't

794
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 2: know if I'm using the right phrasing here, like a

795
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: traditional Republican value, not like a post Trump Republican value.

796
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: Because Trump is like on record as being like, no,

797
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: only idiots serve in the military. I'm a smart man,

798
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: and like that didn't seem to hurt him at all.

799
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: But you know who else hates veterans?

800
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, several of the food box delivery companies. They

801
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 2: actually they just won't give them food.

802
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: They are they are actively every one of our supporters

803
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: is wiping their ass with whatever flag the Navy uses.

804
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: I assume they have a flag, right.

805
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 2: Oh definitely yeah, yeaheah, especially navy flag. It works underwater too,

806
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 2: very special.

807
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: That's good. That's good. And underwater flag that's what we

808
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: need to bring nationalism to the fish. We're back. So

809
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: I wanted to close out by kind of looking at

810
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: a segment of Desanta supporters the find people behind my

811
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: favorite reliable media institution, legal insurrection dot com. Oh good, now,

812
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 1: this is a kind of libertarian right themed news website.

813
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: They're like, boy, I do want you to look up

814
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: legal insurrection dot com because their website's very interesting, Like

815
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: starts with this like phonetic breakdown of the phrase legal insurrection.

816
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: Like that's their logo that includes like a definition a

817
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: rising up against established authority, rebellion, revolt in conformity with

818
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: or permitted by law. That's a nonsense phrase, because there's

819
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: no such thing as a permitted legal insurrection. We had

820
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: this argument actually, like back in around eighteen sixty and

821
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: guess where it ended. Like, I'm not saying it's bad

822
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: to have an insurrection. I think some insurrections are potentially

823
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 1: really good, but they're never legal. Otherwise they're not an insurrection.

824
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: Yet the same silly.

825
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 2: Ideas direction is illegality.

826
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, like one way or the other. I think it's

827
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 1: this idea. These people who like pretend to be libertarians,

828
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: they still have this like sacred sort of reverence for

829
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,959
Speaker 1: the law. They can't just say like, yeah, I believe

830
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 1: in overthrowing the government. No, no, no, what I'm doing is

831
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: actually obeying the real law. The people in charge are

832
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: obeying laws that are illegal and fake. But like, I

833
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: know the real law. So what I'm not. I'm not

834
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,879
Speaker 1: a criminal? Like, no, man, just be like yeah, man,

835
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: I'm a criminal. I want to I want to overthrow

836
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: the government. You know what's cool is being a criminal

837
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: who wants to overthrow the government. We all love criminal

838
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: This is why Star Wars is the biggest movie series.

839
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: We love criminals who want to overthrow the government. That's

840
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: who the founding fathers of this country.

841
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 2: War is a very American thing to love.

842
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: You shouldn't have to be like no, but ours is

843
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: a legal and now fuck it, you're a criminal. You're cool,

844
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: You're fucking al Capone.

845
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's very very cooked.

846
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: It is very cooked. Anyway. Here's an article from legal

847
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: insurrection dot com who bafflingly backs Ronda Santis Florida government.

848
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: Rond de Santis is serious about restoring executive branch agencies

849
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 1: and rebuilding trust with the American people who've been shocked

850
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: and appalled at the weaponization of government by the Biden

851
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: administration and before that, the Obama administration. The federal government,

852
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: specifically the executive branch alphabet agencies, has been completely corrupted

853
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: by the Obama, Biden and now the Biden Harris administrations.

854
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 1: We all know it, and we're all disgusted and disheartened

855
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: by the myriad ways the Obama administration targeted political opponents.

856
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: That's why Trump's twenty sixteen campaign to drain the swamp

857
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: was so potent. We knew the depth and breadth of

858
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 1: the corruption. The partisan Banana republic style attacks on political

859
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: opponents and we wanted it stopped. Unfortunately, Trump was not

860
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: able to drain the swamp at all, not even a

861
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: little bit. So when Biden took office in twenty twenty one,

862
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: he just got to work picking up Obama's attacks on

863
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: ascent with a deep state still fully embedded through the

864
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: executive branch, having spent the intervening years openly working as

865
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: the resistance to Trump's the duly elected president's agenda. God,

866
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: it's such, first off, very funny that they're trying to

867
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: like make the resistance to be anything but like Twitter libs. Yeah,

868
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: Like I do find it funny that they're like fucking

869
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: trying to treat this like a boogeyman.

870
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 2: I'm just yeah, like leading the Maquis through to through

871
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 2: that I don't know, Forester Siteorgia and blowing up fucking

872
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 2: train tracks is extremely amusing to me.

873
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: It's just sad, but it does get it something right.

874
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: This attitude among a lot of Republicans, particularly the guys

875
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: who really like DeSantis, that the deep state is really powerful.

876
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: These federal law enforcement agencies are fundamentally like fighting against us,

877
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: and we have to build an ability to compete with them.

878
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: And this is I actually think we've been mostly talking

879
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 1: about like the weaknesses and the dumb shit about DeSantis's campaign.

880
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: I think a strength he has not maybe capitalized on

881
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: enough is this idea, because this is something Trump proved

882
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: he was unable to do, like he didn't go in

883
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: there and unseat the deep state. And DeSantis has actually

884
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: been kind of effective at resisting the federal government and

885
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: even sidelining some FEA mineral agencies within Florida. And there's

886
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: some actual like potential for strength here with Trump's base.

887
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: I don't know that this gets you moderates, but like

888
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 1: it's weird to me that he hasn't pushed this harder.

889
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,439
Speaker 1: Part of that maybe the fact that he's, like everything else,

890
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 1: really bad at it. Kind of His strongest attempt to

891
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 1: provide sort of a countervailing force to federal law enforcement

892
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: was his activation of the Florida State Guard, which seventeen

893
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: or so states have state guards. It's just kind of

894
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: like a state version of a National Guard. Potentially, Florida's

895
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: had not been active in a while, and he reactivated them,

896
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: claiming that it was going to be a force of

897
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: volunteers who could respond to hurricanes and other public emergencies.

898
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: But what he was actually doing was trying to create

899
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: a paramilitary organization. He is in the process of attempting

900
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: to do this now these people are undergoing like military

901
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: training and whatnot. He's trying to get them access to

902
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: like weaponry. Like this is potentially kind of concerning, but

903
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: he's really fucking bad at it. There was a really

904
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: interesting New York Times article recently that kind of goes

905
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: into the problems the Florida State Guard have had sort

906
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: of spinning up. And it's a very funny read because

907
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: it's like it's like a little kid's idea about how

908
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: you would build a paramilitary organization. So on paper, the

909
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: Governor's office has said that one of the Guard's missions

910
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: would be quote to ensure FLOYDA remains fully fortified to

911
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: respond not only to natural disasters, but also to protect

912
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: its people in borders from illegal aliens and civil unrest.

913
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: And then the New York Times article continues, the deployment

914
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: this spring has been mired in internal turmoil, with some

915
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: recruits complaining that what was supposed to be a civilian

916
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 1: disaster response organization had become heavily militarized, requiring volunteers to

917
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: participate in marching drills and military style training sessions on

918
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: weapons and hand to hand combat. At least twenty percent

919
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,919
Speaker 1: of the one hundred and fifty people initially accepted into

920
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 1: the program dropped out or were dismissed. And if you

921
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: get into this, the people dropping out are like the veterans,

922
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: they're like military officers and stuff who got into this

923
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: thing and then are like, I was in the military

924
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: for twenty years, you know, I did deployments here and here,

925
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: and I came into this thing and it's a bunch

926
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: of civilians dressed as soldiers yelling at me to do

927
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,439
Speaker 1: push ups in march in a field and like trying

928
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: to be an asshole to me because they're angry that

929
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: like I have military experience that they think they know better.

930
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: Like it is like the volunteers said, the training seemed

931
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: poorly structured, with an order to minimum amount of time spent,

932
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: as one of them described it, marching in fields. Some

933
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: of the men said that as veterans with years of

934
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: experience in the military, they were offended when they were

935
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: yelled at by junior instructors acting like drill sergeants who

936
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: disregarded their previous ranks. I find this really fucking funny

937
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: if you guys seen those videos coming out about like

938
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: they're these classes where if you're like a rich or

939
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 1: you know, upper middle class dude, you can pay like

940
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: ten grand to spend five days doing a fake version

941
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: of the Seals hell weak like you rolling, you're like incredible,

942
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: Like yeah, you're like carrying, like hitting stuff with big hammers.

943
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: You're like crawling on your back through rocks. You're doing

944
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: all these like shitty, painful exercises while like some dude

945
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: who probably fucking got an other than honorable separation from

946
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps as a private second class like screams

947
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: at you a lot, and it's you know, that's what

948
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: you feel. Yeah, yeah, rolling around on a one wheel

949
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: yelling at you that you're you know, just like making

950
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 1: a bullshit reasons to be angry at you, because idiots

951
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: honestly have it.

952
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 3: Like yeah, it sounds like a weird mix of like

953
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 3: expensive LARPing and like a like a repressed kink thing

954
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 3: for these guys.

955
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 2: Like yeah, that's.

956
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: Watched the movie Full Metal Jacket and a number one

957
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: didn't watch all of it because like our Lee Ermie

958
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: or whatever his name was. Character they're like the really

959
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: mean drill star gets murdered after like emotionally abusing one

960
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: of his recruits, like kind of a big part of

961
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: the movie, but just saw him like making fun like

962
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: yelling at people and making up fun insults, and we're like, well,

963
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: that's got to be key to teaching people how to

964
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,800
Speaker 1: fight Garrison. Have you seen Full Metal Jacket?

965
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 3: I have not seen Full Metal Jacket.

966
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: You'd actually probably like it's good. There's some interesting parts

967
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: of that movie. Well well shot, but yeah, I do

968
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: think it's really funny. Like there's potentially this is one

969
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: of those things potentially very scary to have a far

970
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: right elected leader building his own paramilitary force that is

971
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: answerable only to him. Righteah, that is a frightening thing.

972
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 1: I'm not saying we shouldn't be concerned about him trying this,

973
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: but he's so shitty.

974
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 3: It it's like dictator one oh one. Yeah, yeah, Like

975
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 3: it makes sense that he would try it. I mean, like, yeah,

976
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 3: I would never want to be a governor because I

977
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 3: think that's an a moral thing to do. But if

978
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 3: I if I was to be, yeah, a romitarian governor,

979
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 3: my own hit squad.

980
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 1: Step one, make your own army, and it says a

981
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: lot about Ron number one that of all of the

982
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: different things he's tried to do, this is the only

983
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,439
Speaker 1: one that seems like, Oh, you might actually be able

984
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: to get a lot of Trump voters to switch over

985
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: to you if you promise them I'm going to do

986
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,479
Speaker 1: this nationwide, and you, as a guy who didn't join

987
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: the army but is pretty sure he would have been

988
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: good at it, can like become a militant commander in

989
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: your like state guard thing that I'm going to establish.

990
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: You might get some votes. I don't think you'd win

991
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: a lot of moderates, but you might get the base

992
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: away from Trump.

993
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 3: Right, it's just so clearly a brown Shirts rip off. Yeah,

994
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 3: it's just like it's so blatant that it's like it's

995
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 3: it's like it's like it's like he's like poorly copying

996
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 3: someone else's homework. Yeah, Like I don't a lot of

997
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,240
Speaker 3: his campaign has that vibe and he's like just poorly

998
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 3: copying someone else's homework.

999
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 1: Like, I don't know that this would work, and I

1000
00:50:57,840 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: still think he would have. It would be a long

1001
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: shot that he would have any chance of beating Trump.

1002
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: But if he were to be like I'm going to

1003
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: establish a State Guard where conservatives can get access to

1004
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: military grade weaponry and the right to carry their handguns everywhere.

1005
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: You might get I don't again, I don't think you

1006
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: went a general that way, but you might get the

1007
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,919
Speaker 1: base away from Trump with that. It's at least more

1008
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: creative than anything else he's tried. Anyway, this is all

1009
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: a bad idea. I want to close by reading one

1010
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: last anecdote from that New York Times article on Ron

1011
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: meetball Ron's attempt to make an army. A fifty one

1012
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: year old former Marine captain who had retired from the

1013
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: military with a disability and later joined the State Guard

1014
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,439
Speaker 1: also clashed with instructors during initial boot camp last month,

1015
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 1: raising concerns about the training. In an assault complaint filed

1016
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: with the Clay County Sheriff's office, the man said he

1017
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: was accused by the State Guard commander of being the

1018
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: leader of the group that had been criticized in the

1019
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: organization and its leadership. He was then forcibly pushed into

1020
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 1: a van against his objections and driven to the command boost,

1021
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: where he was fired and escorted off base. Of the

1022
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 1: nine original State Guard recruiters and commanders who's months recruiting

1023
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: for the organization, Fewer than a third remained. The staff director,

1024
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: who had been a proposion of the less militarized version

1025
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: of the group, appointed in January, was removed from his

1026
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: post just two days before the inaugural graduation. The program's

1027
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: personnel director was fired this week. So good.

1028
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 3: Sounds like it's going great over there in Florida.

1029
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 1: Sounds like meatball. Ron knows how to make an army.

1030
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, folks. That's that's my episode on on

1031
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: the Ron de Santis campaign, and now he's doing. I

1032
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: hope you all enjoyed this little update. We're done cool.

1033
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,720
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for a vveck Ramaswani.

1034
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: Episode, yeah, which is just gonna be me making fart

1035
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: noises into the microphone. You'll get everything you need on vveck.

1036
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 4: Here.

1037
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:50,399
Speaker 1: Look, it's gonna be Trump unless he dies, in which case, boy,

1038
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: that could be interesting.

1039
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 3: I mean, I just like Dessantis could have waited four

1040
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 3: years and then he could have had the backing of

1041
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 3: Trump to help him. I don't he's such a he's

1042
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 3: such a weird little like power goblin because like, yeah.

1043
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: I mean, if he was still try to do that.

1044
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: Trump has gone back and forth on people in the past.

1045
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: But it's such a weird call to like make this

1046
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: doomed play at it, to build like this bad, like

1047
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna piss some people off. Yeah, why yeah, anyway, I.

1048
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember us doing an episode not so long

1049
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: ago about the Santis and being like, well, he'll just

1050
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:29,399
Speaker 2: wait four years until Trump's out to the pit show.

1051
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 2: But no, he fucking defied our expectations by torpedoing his

1052
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 2: own presidential chances.

1053
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh, that's why I love him. Welcome back

1054
00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: to It could Happen Here a podcast about things falling apart,

1055
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: and you know, when things fall apart, one of the

1056
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 1: few things that can keep you on an even keel,

1057
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:06,439
Speaker 1: you know, keep you feeling like there's something that makes

1058
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 1: sense in the world. It's good TV.

1059
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 6: You know.

1060
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 1: I think we can all agree no job more important

1061
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 1: than making television because it's really, for a surprising amount

1062
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 1: of the population, the only thing keeping them on the

1063
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: ragged edge of sanity. And obviously, if you're at all

1064
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: aware of the news, both the Writers Guilt the WGA

1065
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 1: and the Actors Guild sag AFTRA have both separately, although

1066
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: they are now, you know, on strike. At the same

1067
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: time have both kind of independently announced strikes after a

1068
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: breakdown in negotiations with the major studios, and to talk

1069
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 1: with me today about what's going on. What's it like

1070
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: being a writer on strike? Is my friend and one

1071
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 1: of the people who makes a show that helps keep

1072
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 1: me on the ragged edge of sanity. Sore and Bowie sorin.

1073
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 1: How you doing woo?

1074
00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 5: You're simply the best money Hey, you met of.

1075
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:03,280
Speaker 4: Them all the risks.

1076
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 7: Stop it, Tina, stop it.

1077
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: Thank you guys, very good, very good. See you are

1078
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: my former colleague at cracked dot com dot net backslash aol.

1079
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 7: Don't send anyone there now.

1080
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: And you are also, or at least before the strike

1081
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: hit where a have been for the last several years,

1082
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:28,919
Speaker 1: a writer on American Dad, one of the most consistently

1083
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: funny animated shows of like twenty years now almost it's

1084
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: been on the air.

1085
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 7: Stop it stop. Oh, thank you, Robert, Tina, You guys

1086
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 7: are the best.

1087
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 8: Uh.

1088
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 7: That's very nice of you. Thank you very much for

1089
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 7: saying that it did.

1090
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: Cost a lot of money to get her in the

1091
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,320
Speaker 1: studio today.

1092
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 7: That's very kind of you to say. Yeah, I we

1093
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 7: try very hard, but It also has like a feel

1094
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 7: at the show of like the warden isn't watching, Like

1095
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:54,240
Speaker 7: we're kind of allowed to do what we want, and it's.

1096
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:58,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, you love your job. It's very obvious. I think

1097
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: probably everyone there loves writing for that show. Most of

1098
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: the people I know who write for TV have the

1099
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: same attitude of like, wow, I can't believe I get

1100
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: to do this. But that attitude is great and it

1101
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: makes life livable. But what doesn't make life livable and

1102
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: what makes the enjoyment of the job harder is starving

1103
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 1: to death, which is an increasing reality for a lot

1104
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: of writers over the last like ten years. So a

1105
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: decade ago, about thirty three percent of TV writers got

1106
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 1: what was paid like the minimum rate, which is kind

1107
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 1: of the minimum rate you get paid to get staffed

1108
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 1: on a union show. And the WGA says that about

1109
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 1: half of TV writers are at that point. Now, writer

1110
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: pay has declined about fourteen percent over the last five years.

1111
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 1: And that's with inflation. That's like, if you kind of

1112
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 1: take out inflation, right, everybody's making a yeah with inflation,

1113
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, about twenty three percent writer producer pay

1114
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: over the last decade with inflation factored in so that

1115
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:01,919
Speaker 1: sucks because people aren't why twenty three percent less TV?

1116
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 1: In fact, I think we're watching more TV than we

1117
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 1: ever have before, like so it and I like, if

1118
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: you listen to the kind of numbers given by streaming

1119
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 1: platforms about how many people are watching it, sure doesn't

1120
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 1: seem like TV writers have have been gotten twenty three

1121
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: percent worse at their jobs. So anyway, there was the

1122
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: WGA went into negotiations earlier this year and basically to

1123
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, shorten it, we're asking for more money,

1124
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: more money and residuals, more money and upfront pay changes

1125
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: to some policies that streamers were using to kind of avoid.

1126
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: There's been sort of this effort by streamers for a

1127
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 1: while now to kind of kill the concept of a

1128
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: writer's room in a lot of shows, and they have

1129
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: a couple of different sort of fucky ways to do that.

1130
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 7: I gotta say, Robert, it is a dream to come

1131
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 7: on your podcast with you, because you do your fucking homework.

1132
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 7: I usually I'm the one who has to explain all

1133
00:57:57,680 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 7: this stuff, but this is great. I'm loving where this

1134
00:57:59,520 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 7: is going.

1135
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: You're actually right, Can you walk us through kind of

1136
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 1: what's been happened, because that's a thing that I think

1137
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: is sort of you miss that on kind of the

1138
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 1: big level sort of like discussions of this is like

1139
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 1: what like what a writer's room is and sort of

1140
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: what streamers have been tiny tried to do to change

1141
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: that because fundamentally, like one thing people who know what

1142
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: they're talking about will point out is that like movies

1143
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 1: are you know, not that scripts don't matter, but it's

1144
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 1: like a director's medium. That's like the big sort of

1145
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: like guiding you know, through the vision of like what

1146
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: a film is going to be. And TV is a

1147
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: writer driven medium. More often you'll at least hear that

1148
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: a lot. And I kind of want to talk about

1149
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: like what is a writer's room and what has been

1150
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 1: changing in terms of how studios have been trying to

1151
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: edge that concept out?

1152
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 7: Great, great question. So so writer's room traditionally, like you

1153
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 7: think back to broadcast television and it's heyday, the way

1154
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 7: writer's room worked is you had probably first of all,

1155
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 7: you're going to have like twenty to twenty two episodes

1156
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 7: a season, and then within that you've got a block

1157
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 7: of anywhere from like ten to almost sometimes twenty writers.

1158
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 7: And the reason that you have so many writers on

1159
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 7: a show like that is because while you're working on it,

1160
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 7: it's also in production, so as stories are being broken,

1161
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 7: and that means that there are rooms where people are

1162
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 7: creating a story together. As that's going on, there's like

1163
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 7: six other things going on, like you're going to have

1164
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 7: they're probably filming during that time. And if that's your

1165
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 7: particular written by episode, like that's the episode with your

1166
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 7: name on it, you might be on set for that

1167
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 7: because you're going to be having to make changes on

1168
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 7: the fly. While that's going on. There's table reads happening,

1169
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 7: there's joke punch ups happening, So there's generally a separate

1170
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 7: room for that. And so you need like a pretty

1171
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 7: big group of people to just make a show, to

1172
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 7: just write a show. And that's that's to keep the

1173
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 7: hours within like to keep them bearable. I mean, it

1174
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 7: doesn't even you wouldn't even turn that into a nine

1175
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 7: to five. Generally, that's still a lot of hours with

1176
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 7: a lot of people, but at least it's bearable for everybody. Now,

1177
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 7: streaming has tried to change that because they're tired of

1178
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 7: hiring so many writers and they're tired of paying writers

1179
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 7: and so with streaming, there's different loopholes that they can

1180
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 7: get into, which is, if you start creating a show

1181
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 7: before it's even technically green lit, you can start having

1182
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 7: writers write episodes, but because it's not green lit, you're

1183
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:11,920
Speaker 7: not beholden to the same rules through the WGA. You

1184
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 7: can start hiring people at their at a minimum even

1185
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 7: if they are should be making more than that. And

1186
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 7: depending on what your position is at as a writer,

1187
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 7: like you start as a staff writer, then you move

1188
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 7: up to story editor, then executive story editor, and you

1189
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 7: move up and up and up from there. Generally, what

1190
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 7: happens is if you leave a show as as an

1191
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 7: executive story editor, you don't then go to another show

1192
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 7: and drop back down to staff writer. You maintain the

1193
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:36,959
Speaker 7: position that you have because you've now learned the trade

1194
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 7: enough that usually you have a skill set that's valuable

1195
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 7: enough that you should be being paid for being an

1196
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 7: executive story editor. So what they're doing is they're making

1197
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 7: sure that people are not being paid for the roles

1198
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 7: that they generally have because they can do that before

1199
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 7: show has been green lit. And then they will say

1200
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 7: we're going to write, like, let's just write twelve episodes

1201
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 7: and that's a lot, like that's a whole season of time,

1202
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 7: but they're doing it before it's green lit. And then

1203
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 7: what happens is you will have these writers who are

1204
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 7: burning the midnight oil trying to get this thing done

1205
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 7: and calling in a lot of favors from friends because

1206
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 7: you have such a small group of writers. You have

1207
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 7: maybe like in a pre green lit room, you've got

1208
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,919
Speaker 7: like three or four people trying to write an entire

1209
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 7: season of a show, and as they're writing it, they're

1210
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 7: like they're calling in favors from friends and be like

1211
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 7: will you come edit this and stuff? Because you don't

1212
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 7: have enough people for everything. You have to break all

1213
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 7: these stories simultaneously. You have to know what's going on

1214
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 7: in each individual room, but you don't have enough bandwidth

1215
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 7: for all of that. So you're calling in favors from

1216
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 7: other people. Do we just come and like look at this?

1217
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 7: Will you just take a look? Like we need like

1218
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 7: eyes on this, And so you're calling in favors from friends.

1219
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 7: Students have figured out that they can they can you

1220
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 7: can ask people to do this. Essentially, it's like they

1221
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 7: get a natural part of the writing process. Every writer,

1222
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 7: in every form of writing does a version of this,

1223
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 7: and they're like, what if we did this to help

1224
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 7: to make it easier to starve ye, Yeah exactly, and

1225
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 7: then and then what they would do. There's different tactics

1226
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 7: beyond that, which is like once those are appen, once

1227
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 7: those episodes are written, then maybe the studio will will uh.

1228
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 7: They can kind of pick and choose when they want

1229
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 7: to release that. They don't have like a it's not

1230
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 7: like in broadcast television where everything gets released in the fall.

1231
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 7: It's just like you can choose when you want to

1232
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 7: release it, So maybe you wait a year or whatever,

1233
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 7: you release it, and then you can release it in

1234
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 7: two seasons. So if you have twelve episodes, you can

1235
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 7: cut those into six six six.

1236
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: I fucking hate I think this is a little bit

1237
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: of a distraction, Like we miss by because we're not

1238
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: doing seasons the way they used to. There's so much

1239
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: good shit we miss think like half the best episodes

1240
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: are star trek. We're just like, we have forty dollars

1241
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: to shoot this episode on, Like what can we do

1242
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: with like three guys in a room?

1243
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 5: You know?

1244
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 4: I know?

1245
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 7: Like you yeah, you're like you miss out on those

1246
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 7: bottle episodes, those like little ones where you're just like

1247
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 7: or like that. If you think back to Breaking Bad,

1248
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 7: like there's the fly episode episode Yeah, oh, it's like

1249
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 7: the best episode of the show because you've got room

1250
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 7: to stop and breathe and like they'll just characters. Yeah anyway, Yeah,

1251
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 7: it's like you lose out on all that. Then you

1252
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 7: can also because you're breaking it up, you don't have

1253
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 7: to pay people to like advance them to the next

1254
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 7: the next season, and then that would also be released

1255
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 7: over the course of like two years. And so you

1256
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 7: have a writer who's written for maybe like eleven weeks

1257
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:20,920
Speaker 7: on something on a show, and then they don't know

1258
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 7: that they have that job again for another two and

1259
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 7: a half years, and so there's no consistency, there's no

1260
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 7: and nothing is stable, and that makes it very very

1261
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 7: difficult for writers to keep their jobs and maintain a

1262
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 7: writing job.

1263
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 1: It's this really fucked up situation in which I think

1264
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: the streaming era in freeing sort of television from some

1265
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 1: of like the way that sweeps used to work, the

1266
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 1: way that a lot of like kind of the way

1267
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: that you would have to like run shows and the

1268
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: way that they aired when you were you were doing

1269
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: it on like fucking cable and they're hand supported. Has

1270
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: allowed for kinds of TV shows and structures of shows

1271
01:03:57,800 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 1: that you never could have had, Right, it was just

1272
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: we just watched and The Bear. Probably the standout episode

1273
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 1: of The Bear from season two is this like episode

1274
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 1: about a family Christmas party that's just this absolute, like

1275
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 1: anxious nightmare. That's an hour long episode, twice the length

1276
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: of a normal episode, And oftentimes that's kind of a

1277
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 1: mixed thing with TVs, but it works in this one,

1278
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: and the fact that it's so much longer actually like

1279
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 1: helps with like trans you could you can only do

1280
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 1: that with shows that work the way they do in streaming.

1281
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: That wouldn't have been a thing that you would have

1282
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 1: gotten to do in nineteen ninety three probably. But while

1283
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 1: I think like there's a lot of cool stuff structurally

1284
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 1: that's gotten to come out of that, it's also it's

1285
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 1: it's made the compensation so much worse. It's made the

1286
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 1: job so much less reliable. Like it's it's like it's

1287
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 1: really stark how much more difficult it's become to make

1288
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: a living in TV. Yeah, well TV is more popular

1289
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 1: than ever.

1290
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, Yeah, that's like it's making more money than it

1291
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 7: ever possibly has. In the fast and certainly through streaming.

1292
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 7: Like they're not, these these studios not moving to streaming

1293
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 7: because like they're early adopters of technology, the money is there,

1294
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 7: so they're going to streaming. It's like they're making way

1295
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 7: more through streaming, but writers are getting paid les and

1296
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 7: less because they're finding these like wild West loopholes in streaming.

1297
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 7: Residuals is another one that's like it. The way that

1298
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 7: residuals work is if you have a show that then

1299
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 7: gets played again through syndication or through streaming, you should

1300
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 7: then get a residual check for every time that the

1301
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 7: episode that you wrote shows up on television. And it

1302
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 7: was very easy to track that as it would show

1303
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 7: up on like our show on American Dad. Yeah, I

1304
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 7: know that it's going to get played on Cartoon Network.

1305
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 7: I know that it's going to get played at these

1306
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 7: other spots. The TBS will rerun it at some point,

1307
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 7: and I can I know when those are coming in.

1308
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 7: With streaming, it's much more difficult to determine when somebody

1309
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 7: watched something, not because those numbers don't exist, but because

1310
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 7: all these platforms that are created by studios will not

1311
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 7: give out that information. That information is like in a

1312
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 7: black box where you have no idea how often a

1313
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 7: show gets streamed. There's a couple of reasons, like people

1314
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 7: are speculating as to why that might be. One is

1315
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 7: that either shows are getting watched way more often and

1316
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 7: people are not getting the proper residuals that they should be,

1317
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 7: or that the whole business model doesn't quite work. Yeah,

1318
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 7: it's all yeah, yeah, And if you found out how

1319
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 7: little people were actually watching television, this whole all investors, everything,

1320
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 7: the whole thing would collapse. I don't know which is true.

1321
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 7: I don't care. I just want to know what the

1322
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 7: numbers are. So like a big part of a big

1323
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 7: part of this is is the WJA asking different streaming platforms.

1324
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 7: You got to you got to be more transparent. You

1325
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 7: got to tell us how well our show is doing,

1326
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 7: so that we know if people are getting paid properly.

1327
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's again, it would be one thing if

1328
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 1: like writers were getting less than ever and TV was

1329
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 1: just like dying as a as a thing, as a

1330
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 1: as a creative thing that people want. But there is

1331
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: the money. We know where the money is going. The

1332
01:06:55,200 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: eight major Hollywood studio CEOs in twenty twenty one made

1333
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 1: nearly three quarters of a billion dollars an annual salary,

1334
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 1: which is more than the value of what the WGA

1335
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 1: and sag AFTRA want to take out of them and

1336
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: increase compensation for their members. For those eight guys, I'm

1337
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 1: gonna guarantee you Ari Emmanuel the highest compensated of these

1338
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 1: CEOs over at Endeavor three hundred and eight million dollars.

1339
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 1: And like, I don't think he made any of your

1340
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 1: He's not responsible for any of your favorite shows whatever,

1341
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:28,919
Speaker 1: like lying in the Great you know made you made

1342
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 1: you laugh or cry or like whatever, whatever joke from

1343
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 1: American Dad keeps you uh, you know, makes you suddenly

1344
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:37,480
Speaker 1: start like bawling out laughing while you're driving down the highway.

1345
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 1: That was not Ari am manual. Ye, neither the shows

1346
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 1: were Endeavor whatever. You know what I you know what

1347
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do here, right, Yeah, Yeah, Ted Sarandos

1348
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 1: whatever fucking you know, Bob Eiger, all these guys like

1349
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 1: they're they're I mean fundamentally like Bob Iger. One of

1350
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: the big things he did was pushed the The Flash

1351
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 1: movie out into theaters, really put a lot of money

1352
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 1: into that thought it was going to be important for

1353
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 1: the brand going forward. Lost so much money lost, like

1354
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:11,200
Speaker 1: probably about as much money as like the Writer's Guild

1355
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 1: is asking for it increased compensation this year, like if

1356
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 1: they just hadn't made that movie. So let's talk you

1357
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 1: guys went on strike. What it's been like two months

1358
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 1: now already.

1359
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's like day eighty four or something like that.

1360
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a little more than two months. How are

1361
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:30,600
Speaker 1: you feeling, Like, what does it mean like physically to

1362
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 1: be on strike, like going out and picketing and stuff.

1363
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 7: Great questions, Robert, Uh, It's it's actually really nice. I

1364
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 7: don't want to say like it's I enjoy it because

1365
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:44,679
Speaker 7: I would rather be getting paid and not being freaking

1366
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 7: out about the fact that I don't have my job.

1367
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 7: But going out it gives me gives me a sense

1368
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:51,599
Speaker 7: of purpose first of all, each day to like get

1369
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:54,600
Speaker 7: up and go out of this to the picket lines. Yeah,

1370
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 7: and you're out there, you're marching around it. You choose

1371
01:08:57,280 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 7: your studio, like from the majority of the time I

1372
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 7: go to Sony or I go to Amazon, and I

1373
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:03,960
Speaker 7: know the people there. Now it's like going to the

1374
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 7: gym every day where you get to know the people

1375
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 7: there and then you build your community, and so I've

1376
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 7: got this group of people that, like I go there.

1377
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 7: Those are just people that like I happen to talk

1378
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 7: to because like we'd see a truck going and we're like, oh,

1379
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 7: hope that's not teams or truck or whatever. And then

1380
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:19,639
Speaker 7: and then you just like strike up a conversation with somebody.

1381
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 7: You start talking, and then you find out that this

1382
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:23,799
Speaker 7: person like ran Malcolm in the Middle for eight years,

1383
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:25,759
Speaker 7: and you're like, oh, okay, cool.

1384
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 1: You know, people talk a lot about how the last

1385
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:30,559
Speaker 1: writers Strike, which was kind of like right when I

1386
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 1: was getting out of fuck in high school. They're not

1387
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 1: far from that point, like a year or two later. Uh,

1388
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 1: how the last writers Strike was kind of what gave

1389
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: us the birth of like a lot of reality TV.

1390
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 1: You could almost argue there was a degree to which

1391
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 1: it like was part of Trump's rise to prominence, right,

1392
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 1: because that's why The Apprentice gets on air, because that's

1393
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:48,680
Speaker 1: the way the studios can get around paying writers. But

1394
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 1: I also wonder on the opposite and like, how many

1395
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 1: shows do we get because of connections people make out

1396
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 1: of the picket line, because like folks meet each other

1397
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: and get talking, and like I do I do wonder

1398
01:09:58,200 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: if that's like a thing.

1399
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, I guarantee it is. I mean it is shocking

1400
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 7: how like how quickly you just chum up with people

1401
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 7: and like, yeah, the the contact I shouldn't call. It's

1402
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 7: like it's not supposed to be a networkating experience, but

1403
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 7: it just ends up being that, Like you can't help it.

1404
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 7: Like you're just talking to people and then all of

1405
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 7: a sudden your jobs come up and you start talking

1406
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 7: about your work and then people are like after li while,

1407
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 7: like well, like send me something, like send me some

1408
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 7: of your writing, and then you just become buddies and

1409
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,680
Speaker 7: like you start working on stuff accidentally together. And I

1410
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 7: guarantee that, like by the end of this, there'll be

1411
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,519
Speaker 7: writing teams that didn't exist before, and there'll be people

1412
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:36,440
Speaker 7: who want to make stuff together. Plus the studio pipeline

1413
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 7: will be empty, so like they're gonna want to like

1414
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 7: fill it with They're gonna want to fill it. Yeah,

1415
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 7: when the strike ends, And guarantee, there's gonna be people

1416
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 7: from the lines who came up with stuff on the

1417
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 7: lines who are gonna be like we've got lots, like

1418
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 7: there's what about this and be like yes that buy it.

1419
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:54,639
Speaker 1: We'll take that, and I like just kind of in general,

1420
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 1: the fact that like that's sort of the the hope, right,

1421
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 1: Like that's actually the thing that can defeat these giant

1422
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:05,439
Speaker 1: industry colossuses, not just like writing TV shows with other people,

1423
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:08,559
Speaker 1: but like the solidarity, like the fact that you're building

1424
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 1: connections with people, the fact that you there's an understanding

1425
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 1: of shared interest. You're seeing this especially like now that

1426
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:16,639
Speaker 1: like sag After has joined the strike. There's a lot

1427
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: of a lot of people who are very famous and

1428
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:22,520
Speaker 1: prominent talking about issues that go well beyond Hollywood.

1429
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 4: Right.

1430
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:27,639
Speaker 1: The the incredible amount that executive pay and compensation has

1431
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 1: increased over the years, The fact that a lot of

1432
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:33,599
Speaker 1: companies that used to do things of value and employee

1433
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 1: people and good jobs have been hollowed out for the

1434
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: short term profits of you know, vulture capitalists whose job

1435
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: is to you know, fucking suck money out and hand

1436
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 1: it to shareholders, and shit like this is not just

1437
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 1: a you know, a lot of this started in the

1438
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:52,519
Speaker 1: fucking nineties. We've talked about like Jack Welch and ge

1439
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:54,800
Speaker 1: and kind of like how that company was turned from

1440
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 1: something that made stuff to something that produced stock value

1441
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: and fired people and you're you're getting that all across

1442
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:05,519
Speaker 1: entertainment right now. And I think this is I think,

1443
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,240
Speaker 1: and this is something I think kind of everyone knows

1444
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 1: on some level, this is an inflection point, right, you know.

1445
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:12,639
Speaker 1: AI is a part of it, the fact that we're

1446
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 1: about to see them try to use this technology to

1447
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:18,559
Speaker 1: cut down the number of people they have to pay

1448
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:22,560
Speaker 1: even further. But it's like this is bigger than Hollywood.

1449
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:25,759
Speaker 1: Hollywood is just getting a lot of attention because actors

1450
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:26,639
Speaker 1: know how to get attention.

1451
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is the job.

1452
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:32,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, that's yeah. Writers are good at building the

1453
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 7: narrative and ractors are very good at getting attention.

1454
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:34,839
Speaker 1: Then exactly.

1455
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's like it was a it's a worst case scenario,

1456
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 7: want to say, for like for the studios, and just

1457
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:44,280
Speaker 7: because it's no coincidence the UPS is going on strike

1458
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:45,840
Speaker 7: that all these companies are going on strike right now,

1459
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 7: because the same thing's happening across the board where it's

1460
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 7: like this consolidation of power and then consolidation of money,

1461
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:53,599
Speaker 7: and then it's just like all that you are behold

1462
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:55,639
Speaker 7: to when you are at the top of these companies

1463
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 7: is the shareholders and like getting them money and so

1464
01:12:58,000 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 7: whatevery way you can do that, you do it, and

1465
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 7: a lot of times the way you do that is

1466
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 7: that you just fuck everybody at the bottom and figure

1467
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 7: out how to carve out money from them and bring

1468
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 7: it rise it to the top. And so yes, I

1469
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:13,759
Speaker 7: think that it's what happened was the WGA went on strike.

1470
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 7: The WGA is a very strong, good guild, good union

1471
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 7: that like does not blink, and and everyone saw that,

1472
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 7: and immediately people were on the side of the WGA

1473
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:26,760
Speaker 7: in a way that I think no one anticipated that.

1474
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 7: All everybody else in unions is like, no, this is wrong,

1475
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 7: like we should. We were dealing with the exact same stuff,

1476
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 7: and universally everyone seems to be on the side of

1477
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,599
Speaker 7: unions right now. Then that's like we should use that,

1478
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 7: like we should, we should ride that wave a little bit.

1479
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:44,559
Speaker 7: And absolutely they should, because there's there's so many things

1480
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 7: that are systemically broken right now just happens to be

1481
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 7: the entertainment industry is the only one that I have it. Yeah,

1482
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 7: I have skin in the game on.

1483
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:54,759
Speaker 1: We had this moment about a week or so ago where,

1484
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:57,599
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of weeks ago that it came

1485
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 1: out that like some anonymous UH Studio executive told a

1486
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,599
Speaker 1: writer at I think it was Deadline that their plan

1487
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:07,560
Speaker 1: was to the wja's demands were unreasonable and we're just

1488
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:09,400
Speaker 1: going to kind of wait out until they lose their homes,

1489
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:11,519
Speaker 1: right until we're on the street, and then well then

1490
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 1: we can get them to accept it. And you know,

1491
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 1: this is right around when SAG was, you know, deciding

1492
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,479
Speaker 1: to strike and Ron Pearlman gets on and makes a

1493
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 1: little video where he basically says, you know, we can

1494
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 1: burn your houses down, Like there's more than one way

1495
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: to lose a house. And I thought the important thing

1496
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 1: about sharing that because one of the ways you know,

1497
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:33,120
Speaker 1: media works is that there's people let the things that

1498
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:35,360
Speaker 1: people are willing to listen to and that can like

1499
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:38,720
Speaker 1: affect them and change their minds is partly dependent on

1500
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 1: the situational context at the time. This is why so

1501
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 1: many of like the journalist, much of the journalism have

1502
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 1: done the far right, Like has been articles that I

1503
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 1: felt like I had to get out within an hour

1504
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 1: or two of a shooting because people will pay attention

1505
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 1: to these these things that are problems that are important.

1506
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 1: They won't lead if I do a deep dive on

1507
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 1: how this specific kind of radicalization works normally, but if

1508
01:14:57,320 --> 01:14:59,200
Speaker 1: somebody has just been shot, they'll listen, you know, And

1509
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: that's like a fortunate but that's the way people are.

1510
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:06,639
Speaker 1: And there's this I thought. What I thought was important

1511
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:09,559
Speaker 1: about that is that not that you know, Ron Pearlman

1512
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 1: threatened to burn down a guy's house, that's just kind

1513
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: of funny, but what he was doing there that's really

1514
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:16,599
Speaker 1: valuable that I think more people need to think about

1515
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 1: is accepting that when you're saying something like, well we

1516
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 1: just need to wait for writers to lose their homes,

1517
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 1: that's a violent threat. That is a threat to harm

1518
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:30,639
Speaker 1: somebody for your own personal gain, and we shouldn't view

1519
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 1: that as like fundamentally morally different than saying I want

1520
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:35,000
Speaker 1: to go rob a guy with a thirty eight, right

1521
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 1: like I don't. I don't feel like there's a big

1522
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 1: moral gap between them. And you can get people to

1523
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:41,960
Speaker 1: actually kind of who maybe wouldn't think about that, to

1524
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:43,680
Speaker 1: think about that this way. And I think that's an

1525
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 1: important thing to transmit in this time.

1526
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 7: Oh Man, one hundred percent. Yeah, the fact that that

1527
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:52,559
Speaker 7: what it gives you real context for what they're actually

1528
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 7: saying when they say we just got to wait them

1529
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 7: out till they don't have any more money, and like

1530
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 7: it really starts to hurt their health and well being,

1531
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 7: Like yeah, you have somebody else being like, oh I

1532
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 7: can hurt your health and well being and be like okay,

1533
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:07,040
Speaker 7: I get how those are the same thing, but but

1534
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 7: but that's not what the way I was saying it was.

1535
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:11,599
Speaker 7: It was more removed, you see, And so you're absolutely right,

1536
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 7: like having hell Boy come out and be like there's

1537
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:15,679
Speaker 7: lots of ways to lose a house, it's like, oh.

1538
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:19,640
Speaker 1: Shit, yeah, yeah, it's a it's a there's like potential

1539
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:23,240
Speaker 1: right now that I'm glad to see recognized. How are

1540
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 1: you doing, like just in general with this because it

1541
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 1: is you know, we've talked about all the good parts.

1542
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 1: There's a lot that's good. This is like, this is

1543
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 1: a stressful time, Like I'm wondering like when you wake

1544
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 1: up and like you hear.

1545
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:39,880
Speaker 7: For acknowledging that, Yeah, that's it's like how you be.

1546
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:40,840
Speaker 5: Uh.

1547
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 7: It sucks. It sucks really bad. It sucks particularly badly

1548
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:46,680
Speaker 7: because I loved my job. Yeah, I when I talk

1549
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:49,799
Speaker 7: about all these things, a lot of this wasn't happening

1550
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 7: at my job. My job was a I had working

1551
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:54,720
Speaker 7: for an animated show that ran twenty two episodes a

1552
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 7: season that was it would get We knew when we

1553
01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 7: were getting our pickups generally, uh. And it was a

1554
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 7: system that worked. And I was really really enjoying it

1555
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,439
Speaker 7: and very happy at my job. I was getting paid well,

1556
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:10,680
Speaker 7: like I liked everything about it. I felt like it

1557
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 7: was financially stable and I was getting what I deserved,

1558
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 7: and I was just happy. And that's not what's happening

1559
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:19,840
Speaker 7: across like eighty percent of other shows right now. And

1560
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 7: so like we left, we left our show in solidarity

1561
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 7: of other writers because at some point, you know this,

1562
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:27,840
Speaker 7: I maybe won't have this job anymore and I'll have

1563
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:29,880
Speaker 7: to go get another job. And also for all the

1564
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:32,479
Speaker 7: people who are working those other jobs, and it's really

1565
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:34,600
Speaker 7: really struggling right now to even make ends meet. We

1566
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 7: know they're watching, they're working on three different shows a year,

1567
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 7: like they came and pay their rent, like we're working

1568
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:42,559
Speaker 7: on behalf of them, but more importantly, like we're striking

1569
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 7: on behalf of all of the other writers who are

1570
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 7: going to come along after this, Like the fact that

1571
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:49,599
Speaker 7: the two thousand and eight strike happened was the reason

1572
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:51,679
Speaker 7: that my show is so good and has such good

1573
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 7: benefits and like why the show is is comfortable for

1574
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 7: writers because they fucking went to work and like they

1575
01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 7: got what they needed from the studios even though it

1576
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:02,680
Speaker 7: was hard and it was bitter and a lot of

1577
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:04,679
Speaker 7: them lost their jobs over it. And so now it's

1578
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 7: just like even though it sucks and I'm not happy

1579
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 7: about it, it's it's our turn to do it. It's

1580
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:11,799
Speaker 7: like our turn to make sure that everything works.

1581
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:14,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such an important detail that like a lot

1582
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 1: of the people striking, there's been this kind of like

1583
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 1: bad faith theme I've seen. I've seen some people on

1584
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 1: the left do it online where like they'll post some

1585
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 1: video of like an actor, you know, talking about why

1586
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 1: they're doing the striking, like this person's net worth is

1587
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:28,200
Speaker 1: this many millions of dollars And it's like, yeah, well

1588
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:31,840
Speaker 1: they're not striking for them, Like Ron Peerlman is going

1589
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 1: to be okay. Ron Pearlman is not going to be

1590
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 1: forced out of his home. Like that's not why they're

1591
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 1: doing this, because I mean, yeah, that.

1592
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:41,920
Speaker 7: You can have a you can you can have a

1593
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:44,120
Speaker 7: good job, but also have a sense of the bigger

1594
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:47,480
Speaker 7: picture and like a greater a greater good.

1595
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:51,840
Speaker 1: You can just like care about the art form. You know,

1596
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:55,360
Speaker 1: we're watching journalism get fucking eaten alive right now, and

1597
01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:58,519
Speaker 1: AI is gonna has been a part of like people

1598
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:00,519
Speaker 1: have already lost their jobs because they and like the

1599
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 1: thing that keeps getting brought up to me when I'll

1600
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 1: I'll talk about it to like family or whatever, it's like, well,

1601
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:07,120
Speaker 1: you know, they're using it to replace these low level jobs,

1602
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 1: you know, summing up sports articles or like you know

1603
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:11,240
Speaker 1: this kind of coverage or that kind of coverage. Like

1604
01:19:11,439 --> 01:19:13,080
Speaker 1: it's not the kind of stuff you do. It's not

1605
01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 1: like investigation. You can't have a machine do that. And

1606
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 1: it's like we have, but how do you think people

1607
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 1: learn to do what I do? Like part of it

1608
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 1: is like doing the like that's the feed or right,

1609
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 1: it's part of what you're saying about like TV writing.

1610
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:25,040
Speaker 1: It's like they're trying to kill the way in which

1611
01:19:25,439 --> 01:19:30,559
Speaker 1: people learn how to continue this art for Yeah.

1612
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:33,439
Speaker 7: No, it's there's so many parallels between this and what's

1613
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:36,080
Speaker 7: happening with journalism in terms of like is turning it

1614
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:38,679
Speaker 7: essentially into a gig economy, which is exactly what destroyed

1615
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:41,360
Speaker 7: the news yeah, or is destroying the news, but like, yeah,

1616
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:43,719
Speaker 7: it's it's the same thing. And when you talk about AI,

1617
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 7: like you if you were to write an episode of

1618
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:48,080
Speaker 7: a show and you ever written by credit on it,

1619
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,600
Speaker 7: you get a script fee for that, and ultimately, like

1620
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:53,719
Speaker 7: what the studios want is to just have a piece

1621
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 7: of shit AI written script to begin with, and then

1622
01:19:56,439 --> 01:19:58,280
Speaker 7: they're not paying a script fee to anybody, and then

1623
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:01,800
Speaker 7: writers just fix that and so like, yeah, it's it's

1624
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 7: all these differently cost saving measures then ensure that no

1625
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:07,559
Speaker 7: one will ever come up through this industry again and

1626
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:08,719
Speaker 7: learn all the things.

1627
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, there will still be people who become writers, but

1628
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:13,960
Speaker 1: there'll be people whose parents are rich and so they

1629
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 1: can afford to work for free for forever. And then

1630
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:20,760
Speaker 1: and then you know what, we don't get the bear? Yeah,

1631
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:25,680
Speaker 1: the bear and it's curiously jacked leading man, Where's where's

1632
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:28,080
Speaker 1: he get the time? When's he putting down the protein?

1633
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:30,639
Speaker 1: We're not saying him jug a protein shake every twenty minutes.

1634
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:32,960
Speaker 1: You complained about this on Twitter, and I agree with you.

1635
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 7: The structure that requires the like to get a body

1636
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:39,320
Speaker 7: like that, the structure you need in your life, and

1637
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:41,880
Speaker 7: like the regiments that you need to follow, need to

1638
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,559
Speaker 7: be like to a tee every single day. And there's

1639
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:46,600
Speaker 7: just he's too spontaneous. There's too much going on in

1640
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 7: his life. He doesn't have tis enough two hours to

1641
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:50,240
Speaker 7: carve out to go to the gym every day.

1642
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 1: No, this is my only issue, Like, this is what's

1643
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:55,599
Speaker 1: really threatening my support of the WGA. I just needed

1644
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 1: an episode of the Bear where all it is is

1645
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:01,559
Speaker 1: going through his workout routine. He's in the back room.

1646
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:03,160
Speaker 1: He's doing some pearls, you know.

1647
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:07,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, he's got bags of rice back there and he's

1648
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 7: doing squats with him on his shoulders. I even I

1649
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:12,559
Speaker 7: want to see him at three am in the morning

1650
01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 7: and I'll buy it. I'll be a five at three

1651
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 7: am in the morning and he's like going to it anytime,

1652
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:18,360
Speaker 7: fitness or fucking whatever, and he's like work it out

1653
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:19,880
Speaker 7: a little bit. I could be like, Okay, there it is,

1654
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 7: that's what he's doing it there, we got tonefits it in.

1655
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 1: Let me see him get his BCAAs you know, have

1656
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:28,479
Speaker 1: fucking ritchie, be like you've taken your pre workout today. Yeah,

1657
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:30,720
Speaker 1: give it, give me a little bit, you know. Yeah,

1658
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:33,840
Speaker 1: all right, Soren, you got it out here. Do you

1659
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 1: have anything you want to plug before like perhaps a

1660
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 1: podcast with our with our other former colleague, Dan O'Brien.

1661
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:45,280
Speaker 7: No, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, I got a show called

1662
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:48,120
Speaker 7: a Quick Question with Dan and Soorn No, Soren and Dan,

1663
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:50,760
Speaker 7: oh got him a headliner. Uh yeah, Quick Question with

1664
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:52,800
Speaker 7: Soren and Daniel. You can check that out anywhere you

1665
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,080
Speaker 7: listen to podcasts. It's basically just Dan and I catching

1666
01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 7: up because we live on opposite coasts and we're good buddies,

1667
01:21:58,439 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 7: and uh that's about it.

1668
01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:05,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, excellent, check out Quick Questions with Soren and Dan

1669
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 1: special show. Just a thank you. It's a wonderful time. Soren,

1670
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and you know, good luck out

1671
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 1: there on the picket line. To you, to all of

1672
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 1: the other writers, and to everybody at SAG after it.

1673
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:19,760
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1674
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:33,800
Speaker 4: This is Mia from the very very Near Future. We

1675
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 4: found out as we were live recording this episode that

1676
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,880
Speaker 4: Teamster's leadership has cut a tentative agreement with UPS to

1677
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:44,400
Speaker 4: try to revert the strike. So we've we've decided to

1678
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 4: leave this in and you're gonna hear us find this

1679
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:49,360
Speaker 4: shit out. Literally in the middle of an interview of

1680
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:51,880
Speaker 4: what we thought was going to be a really, really

1681
01:22:51,920 --> 01:23:02,679
Speaker 4: really large strike starting so enjoy it. Strike season here

1682
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:06,240
Speaker 4: at I could happen here the podcast where things fall

1683
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:09,479
Speaker 4: apart and sometimes you put them back together again. And

1684
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:12,799
Speaker 4: as you probably have noticed, presumably from the last interview,

1685
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:15,120
Speaker 4: maybe from reading the news, maybe from like talking to

1686
01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:18,440
Speaker 4: people who are in unions, we are in a genuinely

1687
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:21,800
Speaker 4: historic period of labor militancy in this country. That is

1688
01:23:23,080 --> 01:23:26,479
Speaker 4: effectively we are now we are. We are now entering

1689
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:28,960
Speaker 4: the second phase of the hot Summer of twenty twenty three.

1690
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:31,800
Speaker 4: We used to have hot summers all the time. People

1691
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:33,640
Speaker 4: do what that meant, so now it just means like

1692
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:36,840
Speaker 4: global warming. But long ago in the galaxy, far far away,

1693
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:39,240
Speaker 4: there are these things called hot summers when everyone would

1694
01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:42,120
Speaker 4: fucking go on strike and there'd be you know, sort

1695
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 4: of masters just as a capital estate. And yeah, we're

1696
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:48,679
Speaker 4: fucking going back. There's talk with me about the next

1697
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 4: series of massive private sector strikes that we're about to get.

1698
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 4: Is Rehee Smith and Oliver Rose, who are rank and

1699
01:23:55,400 --> 01:24:00,439
Speaker 4: file ups workers and teamsters doing the standard disclaimer. These

1700
01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:03,160
Speaker 4: individuals do not represent the union or the positions of

1701
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 4: the union. They are speaking as individuals. Yeah, we have

1702
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 4: this is this is the disclaimer for the lawyers, it

1703
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:13,920
Speaker 4: is also true. Yeah, but recent Oliver, welcome to the show.

1704
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:15,760
Speaker 9: Hey, yeah, thanks for having us.

1705
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:17,160
Speaker 10: Yeah, thank you much.

1706
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm really really glad we can talk to you. So,

1707
01:24:20,439 --> 01:24:23,760
Speaker 4: all right, the day this is going out, it'll be

1708
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:28,360
Speaker 4: six days before the teamsters are potentially going to go

1709
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:32,720
Speaker 4: on strike and the current contract runs out. Can I yeah,

1710
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:36,320
Speaker 4: can we talk a little bit about what? Okay, who

1711
01:24:36,479 --> 01:24:39,000
Speaker 4: is who is going on strike and what do they do?

1712
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:43,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, so there's going to be three hundred and forty

1713
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:46,519
Speaker 6: thousand UPS workers going on strike, and that's going to

1714
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:50,160
Speaker 6: be you know, the inside warehouse workers, and that's going

1715
01:24:50,240 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 6: to be the delivery drivers and also the theater drivers

1716
01:24:56,479 --> 01:24:58,760
Speaker 6: and the twenty two fours, like all of them.

1717
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:03,280
Speaker 4: Could you explain what oh are?

1718
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:04,160
Speaker 5: Yes?

1719
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:10,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, So twenty two four's is a classification of worker

1720
01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:14,639
Speaker 6: where they're kind of half inside and half driving.

1721
01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:15,400
Speaker 4: Uh.

1722
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:17,720
Speaker 6: Something that the union has told us is that there's

1723
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:20,280
Speaker 6: already been a tentative agreement that that classification is not

1724
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 6: going to exist anymore.

1725
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:22,599
Speaker 9: It was kind of.

1726
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 6: A really raw deal for people that found themselves in

1727
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:31,719
Speaker 6: that position. Shit, what was the other one that I mentioned? Twos?

1728
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:33,240
Speaker 9: I think theater drivers?

1729
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:39,040
Speaker 6: Yes, so feter drivers are not your regular package delivery drivers.

1730
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:44,080
Speaker 6: They drive the big semis that you see from like

1731
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:46,639
Speaker 6: hub to hub and whatnot, and that's how they deliver.

1732
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:51,479
Speaker 6: Uh So those are the last two classifications that I mentioned.

1733
01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:55,320
Speaker 6: And yeah, we're all going to be going on strike,

1734
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:59,519
Speaker 6: and well, we are potentially going to be on strike,

1735
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:03,479
Speaker 6: and if we are, UPS is kind of going to

1736
01:26:03,479 --> 01:26:06,080
Speaker 6: be in a world of hurt because it is very

1737
01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:09,800
Speaker 6: hard to replace three hundred and forty thousand workers and

1738
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:13,719
Speaker 6: what economists have told me is a tight labor market.

1739
01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 9: So yeah, it's going to be very exciting.

1740
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's I'm excited, like I don't know, you know.

1741
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:25,040
Speaker 4: It was funny so when when SAG officially walked off

1742
01:26:25,040 --> 01:26:27,000
Speaker 4: and joined the WGA strike, that was that was the

1743
01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:30,400
Speaker 4: largest strike since hilariously, the team Stirs went on strike

1744
01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:34,680
Speaker 4: in the like the year I was born, like ninety seven,

1745
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:38,120
Speaker 4: And hilariously, that is a title that if this happens,

1746
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:40,479
Speaker 4: they're going to hold that title for like one month

1747
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:44,040
Speaker 4: before this, UPS striker places is the largest strike in

1748
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 4: the US is the nineties.

1749
01:26:46,120 --> 01:26:48,559
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be wild if we go on strike.

1750
01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:51,599
Speaker 6: While you know, sag Afra is on strike, and while

1751
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:54,240
Speaker 6: the Writers Guilder are on strike, that's going to be

1752
01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:57,439
Speaker 6: over half a million workers on strike in this country

1753
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:00,519
Speaker 6: at this time, and that is just going to you know,

1754
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:02,080
Speaker 6: it's gonna be fucking historic.

1755
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:04,200
Speaker 4: Right yeah. And there's and there's a chance, depending on

1756
01:27:04,200 --> 01:27:05,760
Speaker 4: how long these strikes drag out, that we get to

1757
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:09,799
Speaker 4: like September, the big the Big three Auto, the UAW

1758
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:12,000
Speaker 4: goes on strike, and if that happens, that that will

1759
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:13,880
Speaker 4: be like the most number of people who've been on

1760
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:17,320
Speaker 4: a strike in this country since like the fifties, which

1761
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 4: is wild especially, you know, because this is supposed to

1762
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:23,800
Speaker 4: be a sort of like, I don't know, I think

1763
01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:25,760
Speaker 4: that's sort of the especially interesting thing about this, right

1764
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:28,639
Speaker 4: is that actual union density is really low and hasn't

1765
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:31,200
Speaker 4: been increasing that much. On the other hand, like everyone

1766
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:33,599
Speaker 4: seems to lake unions and everyone wants to go on strike,

1767
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 4: and I don't know, it's a it's a really interesting

1768
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:38,559
Speaker 4: sort of set of conditions right now.

1769
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, oh yeah. I'm very heartened by, you know,

1770
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:50,080
Speaker 6: the support that unions have garnered, because, as you mentioned,

1771
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:52,840
Speaker 6: you know, we are at a low union density. There

1772
01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 6: was like that labor decline that happened, you know, since

1773
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:59,680
Speaker 6: the fucking like seventies and eighties, right, like the backlash

1774
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:05,920
Speaker 6: to org nice labor. I am very hopeful that this uh,

1775
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:09,280
Speaker 6: this strike wave can kind of turn that around, right Uh.

1776
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:13,400
Speaker 6: You know something that I've been thinking about a lot

1777
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:18,439
Speaker 6: is uh you know, it's like ups is A is

1778
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:23,160
Speaker 6: a major, major company in a whole logistics sector, right yeah,

1779
01:28:23,200 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 6: and like we can set that standard for that logistics

1780
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:30,200
Speaker 6: company or like a piece of shit company like Amazon can.

1781
01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 6: So if we win, and we win big, that could

1782
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:38,240
Speaker 6: absolutely encourage more organizing in those other sectors, leading to

1783
01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:42,760
Speaker 6: an increase of union density. So hopefully that's like the

1784
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:45,600
Speaker 6: way forward past all these strikes.

1785
01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:49,040
Speaker 9: It'd be great. It's sorely needed, sorely.

1786
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:54,360
Speaker 10: Needed, absolutely, and and even beyond you know, the logistics industry,

1787
01:28:54,600 --> 01:28:56,800
Speaker 10: you know, I think we can show that you know,

1788
01:28:56,920 --> 01:29:00,400
Speaker 10: any you know company or corporation that you know, a

1789
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:04,479
Speaker 10: year after years making these record break and profits, you know,

1790
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:08,720
Speaker 10: while meanwhile there's poor wear conditions or even unsafe ware conditions.

1791
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:13,360
Speaker 10: You know, there's hey that does not you know allow

1792
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:15,639
Speaker 10: you know us to pay rent but food on the table.

1793
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:18,600
Speaker 10: You know that we can just show that. Okay, you know,

1794
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:21,800
Speaker 10: we're done. You know, with giving all of the wealth

1795
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 10: that we're creating to the company and now it's going

1796
01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:25,400
Speaker 10: back into our hands.

1797
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:27,160
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1798
01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:31,479
Speaker 6: And UPS fucking created thirteen billion dollars in profits last year.

1799
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:35,400
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, and that's up from I was just reading

1800
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:38,160
Speaker 6: an article this morning and U and Jacobin written by

1801
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:42,719
Speaker 6: a fellow UPS team star, and that's up from six

1802
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 6: point five billion in uh twenty nineteen.

1803
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:48,280
Speaker 9: And they're also giving.

1804
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:50,320
Speaker 4: Doubled the profit. They've over doubled the profits in like Tree,

1805
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:50,920
Speaker 4: they were.

1806
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:52,040
Speaker 9: Doubled their profits.

1807
01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:55,320
Speaker 6: And they keep trying to tell the union that, oh, no,

1808
01:29:55,400 --> 01:29:58,080
Speaker 6: I'm just a poor popper. We don't have money for

1809
01:29:58,160 --> 01:30:01,720
Speaker 6: your demands, Like we're just we're just so poor, and

1810
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:03,960
Speaker 6: it's like there. Meanwhile, you know, they're given their fucking

1811
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:07,960
Speaker 6: like CEO and shareholders like dividends and stock buybacks and

1812
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:10,519
Speaker 6: all of that in addition to the profits that they

1813
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:13,200
Speaker 6: are reaping, right, because profits is just the cream of

1814
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:17,320
Speaker 6: the crop, right, Like that's everything past business expenses, what

1815
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:20,839
Speaker 6: they're paying out like salary, so that's not even being touched.

1816
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:24,880
Speaker 6: And yeah, no, it's time for us to say we

1817
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:25,439
Speaker 6: want that.

1818
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:26,519
Speaker 9: We created that.

1819
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:29,240
Speaker 4: So I think that leads it to sort of the

1820
01:30:29,240 --> 01:30:31,559
Speaker 4: next thing I want to ask about, which is, can

1821
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:33,920
Speaker 4: you talk a little bit about what the sort of

1822
01:30:33,960 --> 01:30:38,640
Speaker 4: specific grievances were that kicked this off. I'm assuming there

1823
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:42,840
Speaker 4: are a lot, because you know, this sucks, you.

1824
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:46,040
Speaker 10: Know, and there is a wide range of conditions because

1825
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:49,880
Speaker 10: you know, for a long time, you know, the contract

1826
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:53,920
Speaker 10: hasn't kept up with both like economic and non economic

1827
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:57,840
Speaker 10: side of things, you know, and we have kind of

1828
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:02,240
Speaker 10: two two dynamics where there's you know, well over a

1829
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:04,840
Speaker 10: majority of like part time workers who aren't getting enough

1830
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 10: payer hours you know, to afford to live. And then

1831
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:11,519
Speaker 10: we also have you know, the full time workers who

1832
01:31:11,880 --> 01:31:14,719
Speaker 10: inside warehouse could be working you know, ten twelve hour shifts.

1833
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:16,720
Speaker 10: You know, we have drivers who are doing you know,

1834
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:19,680
Speaker 10: twelve hour shifts and you know even up to like

1835
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:22,719
Speaker 10: fourteen hours you know, every day, and then also getting

1836
01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:25,519
Speaker 10: you know, uh contacted to come in you know on

1837
01:31:25,560 --> 01:31:28,080
Speaker 10: their day off, have to do six day weeks.

1838
01:31:29,280 --> 01:31:29,400
Speaker 5: Uh.

1839
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:29,840
Speaker 4: You know.

1840
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:32,160
Speaker 10: Of course on the driver's side, you know, we have

1841
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:36,320
Speaker 10: these escalating temperatures and meanwhile there's you know, no air

1842
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:40,360
Speaker 10: conditioners in the vehicles and same you know thing in

1843
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:44,559
Speaker 10: the warehouse because personally, you know, I work in side

1844
01:31:44,560 --> 01:31:47,519
Speaker 10: warehouse as a loader. So I'm spending you know, virtually

1845
01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:51,320
Speaker 10: all my shift in the trailer loading boxes. You know,

1846
01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:55,360
Speaker 10: there's no airflow, those things, you know, can you know,

1847
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:57,920
Speaker 10: be five to ten degrees hotter, you know, like at

1848
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 10: a minimum than the yeah, ambient temperature last summer, like

1849
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:05,320
Speaker 10: on a mid ninety day, I recorded one hundred and

1850
01:32:05,320 --> 01:32:09,120
Speaker 10: eight degrees you know inside the trailer. So you know,

1851
01:32:09,479 --> 01:32:13,200
Speaker 10: there's not necessarily any kind of protections currently for that.

1852
01:32:14,080 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 10: So you know, that's one big lack in the contract

1853
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:20,200
Speaker 10: is having those kind of you know heat heat protection

1854
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:22,400
Speaker 10: and you know that is.

1855
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:24,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that could just kill people. And we've

1856
01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:26,360
Speaker 4: talked about on the show before people who've died like

1857
01:32:26,439 --> 01:32:29,640
Speaker 4: working conditions like that because you know it was it

1858
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:31,559
Speaker 4: was too hot. But their bosses were like, fuck you,

1859
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:33,599
Speaker 4: we don't care, like keep uploading this stuff.

1860
01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:36,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, and it's absolutely tragic. I know we had a

1861
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:42,000
Speaker 10: you know, ups teamster I believe in California who died

1862
01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:46,280
Speaker 10: due to the extreme heat conditions last summer. And also no,

1863
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:48,760
Speaker 10: you know, there was another case where I think a

1864
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:51,760
Speaker 10: driver stopped at like a convenience store to buy a

1865
01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:55,280
Speaker 10: drink and you know was fire for making you know,

1866
01:32:55,320 --> 01:32:57,760
Speaker 10: an off route stop, even though they tell us, you know,

1867
01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:00,679
Speaker 10: take breaks when you need it, but they don't actually

1868
01:33:00,720 --> 01:33:00,960
Speaker 10: mean it.

1869
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:02,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1870
01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:04,680
Speaker 10: Yeah, because obviously, you know, you want to be being

1871
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:05,679
Speaker 10: disciplined or fired.

1872
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:09,880
Speaker 4: One of the things that I saw was part of

1873
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:12,639
Speaker 4: the negotiations that UPS had offered to be like, oh, well,

1874
01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:15,960
Speaker 4: put in air conditionings in all new vehicles. And I

1875
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:17,160
Speaker 4: was looking at this and I was like, this is

1876
01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:19,320
Speaker 4: this is the Clean Air Act loophole. I remember this.

1877
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:22,360
Speaker 4: If you only specify new vehicles, I'll just never replace

1878
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:23,840
Speaker 4: the old ones. Mm.

1879
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:28,320
Speaker 6: Absolutely, And you know with these companies, they're going to

1880
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 6: be looking for those loopholes, right Yeah.

1881
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:33,400
Speaker 9: And like, I don't know.

1882
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:38,400
Speaker 6: That I've seen a vehicle that looked new when I'm

1883
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:43,280
Speaker 6: at my hub. I'm also inside worker and yeah, they

1884
01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:45,679
Speaker 6: all look like they've been around, been around a while,

1885
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:48,919
Speaker 6: and I don't know that they've been spending the capital

1886
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:53,960
Speaker 6: to get those new vehicles. So that's absolutely something that

1887
01:33:54,040 --> 01:33:58,600
Speaker 6: we're gonna, you know, keep their feet to the fire on,

1888
01:33:59,040 --> 01:33:59,639
Speaker 6: so to speak.

1889
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:00,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1890
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:04,760
Speaker 6: And then in terms of other conditions that are like

1891
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:08,040
Speaker 6: really leading up to this right now, there is a

1892
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:12,280
Speaker 6: big problem with MRAs and no, not the MRAs, you

1893
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:16,400
Speaker 6: all might be thinking of, this is a market rate adjustment,

1894
01:34:17,320 --> 01:34:21,960
Speaker 6: and both are bad. Both are bad. We are staunchly

1895
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:27,960
Speaker 6: against both MRAs. And essentially what an MRA does is

1896
01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:31,800
Speaker 6: it sounds good at first, you know, it gives the

1897
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:36,760
Speaker 6: company leeway to, you know, potentially increase our pay right

1898
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 6: beyond what's just stipulated in the contract. However, when you

1899
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:44,240
Speaker 6: kind of get late into the contract, like you know,

1900
01:34:44,360 --> 01:34:47,639
Speaker 6: towards the expiration date, the base pay that was agreed

1901
01:34:47,680 --> 01:34:51,599
Speaker 6: on for the last contract is no longer acceptable. And

1902
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:55,120
Speaker 6: while it gives them the leeway to increase our rate wage,

1903
01:34:55,479 --> 01:34:58,400
Speaker 6: they can always go back down to the lower wage

1904
01:34:58,720 --> 01:35:02,719
Speaker 6: should they choose to. And last year at the hub

1905
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:07,280
Speaker 6: that I worked at, it was right after peak, in

1906
01:35:07,360 --> 01:35:09,920
Speaker 6: peak season. We were hired on at twenty seven dollars

1907
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:17,400
Speaker 6: an hour. And come February, you know, we're all walking

1908
01:35:17,439 --> 01:35:21,040
Speaker 6: into the job and there's one of the supervisors there

1909
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:23,519
Speaker 6: who is frankly looking like she's not having a good

1910
01:35:23,560 --> 01:35:26,280
Speaker 6: time having to stop to talk to each of us

1911
01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:29,160
Speaker 6: to explain, oh, yeah, so we are going to be

1912
01:35:29,200 --> 01:35:32,400
Speaker 6: bringing your pay down to fifteen fifty an hour.

1913
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:33,880
Speaker 4: Jesus, But don't.

1914
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:35,840
Speaker 9: I know, I know but don't worry. Don't worry. There's

1915
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:37,600
Speaker 9: an attendance bonus.

1916
01:35:38,160 --> 01:35:41,439
Speaker 6: There's an attendance bonus of one hundred and twenty dollars

1917
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:46,479
Speaker 6: if you make all your shifts, and that really fucking sucked,

1918
01:35:46,640 --> 01:35:50,400
Speaker 6: like if you get like if you get sick, like okay,

1919
01:35:50,439 --> 01:35:52,040
Speaker 6: So like at this hub that I work at, I

1920
01:35:52,080 --> 01:35:53,920
Speaker 6: work at one of the few hubs that don't have

1921
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:55,760
Speaker 6: what's called the hourly guarantee.

1922
01:35:56,520 --> 01:35:58,040
Speaker 9: Most hubs have an hourly guaran.

1923
01:35:58,120 --> 01:35:59,719
Speaker 6: If you're a part time worker, you have an hourly

1924
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:02,000
Speaker 6: guarantee of three and a half hours a day. So

1925
01:36:02,080 --> 01:36:03,880
Speaker 6: if they say that there's no work to be done,

1926
01:36:03,920 --> 01:36:06,160
Speaker 6: you can say I want that hourly guarantee, and they

1927
01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:08,240
Speaker 6: either find you more work to do or they pay

1928
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:12,000
Speaker 6: that out. And then for full time workers, that's eight hours.

1929
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:15,000
Speaker 6: I work at one of the few hubs that doesn't.

1930
01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:17,840
Speaker 6: It's a classification related to the type of hub that

1931
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:23,519
Speaker 6: I am at, And so I'm only like at this hub,

1932
01:36:23,560 --> 01:36:26,559
Speaker 6: I work maybe twelve hours a week if I'm lucky,

1933
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:29,519
Speaker 6: So this is twelve hours a week at fifteen fifty

1934
01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:33,040
Speaker 6: an hour with an attendance bonus. But if I get

1935
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:36,559
Speaker 6: sick one of those days, that means I have a paycheck,

1936
01:36:36,600 --> 01:36:39,240
Speaker 6: a weekly paycheck that is going from roughly two hundred

1937
01:36:39,320 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 6: dollars to like maybe roughly eighty and that is just

1938
01:36:44,320 --> 01:36:48,639
Speaker 6: it's totally totally unacceptable the way that they can kind

1939
01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:52,080
Speaker 6: of like, yeah, with the plague going on, yes, being

1940
01:36:52,160 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 6: sick is highly likely right now. And yeah, no, they're

1941
01:36:57,040 --> 01:36:59,479
Speaker 6: just kind of able to like yo yo us around

1942
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:04,360
Speaker 6: on these ages like whenever they want. And so a

1943
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:09,040
Speaker 6: demand that is being circulated in the grassroots of the union.

1944
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:14,240
Speaker 6: Leadership hasn't really talked about it to my knowledge, but

1945
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:16,920
Speaker 6: there is, you know, a petition going around to have

1946
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:20,559
Speaker 6: a starting wage of twenty five dollars an hour, and

1947
01:37:20,720 --> 01:37:23,680
Speaker 6: you know, right now that would only be because right

1948
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:26,479
Speaker 6: now this year, I'm making twenty four and they didn't

1949
01:37:26,520 --> 01:37:29,600
Speaker 6: do that bullshit. I think kind of an anticipation of

1950
01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:31,640
Speaker 6: the strike coming. They didn't want to make us, you know,

1951
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:34,160
Speaker 6: more angry, and so that would only be a dollar

1952
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:37,400
Speaker 6: increase for me, but also it would prevent them from

1953
01:37:37,439 --> 01:37:40,639
Speaker 6: doing that in the future, right Yeah.

1954
01:37:40,680 --> 01:37:46,320
Speaker 10: So yeah, I like Reese, you know, also was affected

1955
01:37:46,320 --> 01:37:49,559
Speaker 10: by the MRA, but luckily not as severe. You know,

1956
01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:52,679
Speaker 10: my pay went from twenty six down to twenty three

1957
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:57,679
Speaker 10: an hour, and of course, you know what ten eleven

1958
01:37:57,680 --> 01:38:00,920
Speaker 10: percent pay cut also same time goes up, you know,

1959
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:05,200
Speaker 10: ten percent. Uh, that was very difficult enough, let alone

1960
01:38:05,240 --> 01:38:08,599
Speaker 10: having you know, your pay getting dropped almost by fifty percent.

1961
01:38:09,080 --> 01:38:12,080
Speaker 10: You know, there's multiple hubs in the area, and they're

1962
01:38:12,080 --> 01:38:14,280
Speaker 10: all just on different pay scales, you know, for the

1963
01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:18,280
Speaker 10: same kind of you know, same same area, doing the

1964
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:21,600
Speaker 10: same work, and we had just have these like fluctuating

1965
01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:23,840
Speaker 10: pay scales, you know, I know for us, it was

1966
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:26,439
Speaker 10: you know, right after peak season, and they're like, oh,

1967
01:38:26,479 --> 01:38:30,320
Speaker 10: thanks so much for the most successful peak season ever.

1968
01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:33,400
Speaker 10: We made record breaking profits. We couldn't have done this

1969
01:38:33,520 --> 01:38:36,400
Speaker 10: without you. By the way, we're cutting all of your

1970
01:38:36,439 --> 01:38:40,320
Speaker 10: pay and now, of course you know we're getting paid

1971
01:38:40,360 --> 01:38:44,760
Speaker 10: above twenty five and hey, that helped their profits. So

1972
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:47,479
Speaker 10: you know, it's absolutely absurd to say, oh, well, you know,

1973
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:53,160
Speaker 10: we can't afford you know, these higher wages when they can't.

1974
01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:58,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, they don't, exactly, they do hold their fucking profits,

1975
01:38:58,200 --> 01:39:02,240
Speaker 6: Like are you kidding me? Like Jesus Christ, it's like

1976
01:39:02,280 --> 01:39:05,200
Speaker 6: they think we're fucking dumb. It's like, no, like our

1977
01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:11,280
Speaker 6: work bar exceeded what you're paying us, Like an unimaginable amount. Yeah,

1978
01:39:11,320 --> 01:39:16,120
Speaker 6: and you guys like it was earlier on in the complo,

1979
01:39:16,200 --> 01:39:18,719
Speaker 6: not earlier on. I think this happened maybe late June

1980
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 6: early July. It was they leaked, it got leaked their

1981
01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:27,920
Speaker 6: economic proposals for us, and they had the part timers

1982
01:39:28,080 --> 01:39:34,160
Speaker 6: starting at seventeen dollars an hour seventeen and like, I

1983
01:39:34,240 --> 01:39:36,120
Speaker 6: just I don't think that's affordable anywhere.

1984
01:39:37,000 --> 01:39:38,840
Speaker 4: That's just think I'm going to mention that I think

1985
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:41,840
Speaker 4: is I think it's really important, but isn't particularly well nursed.

1986
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:43,120
Speaker 4: So you know, if you go back to like the

1987
01:39:43,160 --> 01:39:48,000
Speaker 4: original fifteen campaign, right wage like that wage which was

1988
01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:51,519
Speaker 4: already like kind of nonsense in like twenty twelve, like

1989
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:56,360
Speaker 4: with inflation that's like nineteen thirty now, Yeah, so this

1990
01:39:56,439 --> 01:39:59,080
Speaker 4: is you know, this is this is how much like

1991
01:39:59,120 --> 01:40:01,639
Speaker 4: inflation has sort of deteriorated wages and that, and that's

1992
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:04,720
Speaker 4: just sort of like you know, the economic terms, like

1993
01:40:04,760 --> 01:40:06,960
Speaker 4: inflation is like the bundle of goods, right, and that

1994
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:09,600
Speaker 4: that's not accounting for the fact that, for example, the

1995
01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:11,720
Speaker 4: increase in housing prices has been way higher for the

1996
01:40:11,760 --> 01:40:13,920
Speaker 4: sort of like avig rated inflation. Right. Healthcare costs are

1997
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:16,879
Speaker 4: increasing higher from the sort of quote unquote Aviatrade inflation,

1998
01:40:17,560 --> 01:40:19,160
Speaker 4: and so like, yeah, it's like, yeah, this sounds like

1999
01:40:19,200 --> 01:40:22,559
Speaker 4: a lot of money. It's fucking not like no, simply

2000
01:40:22,680 --> 01:40:22,920
Speaker 4: is not.

2001
01:40:23,720 --> 01:40:27,680
Speaker 6: Like Yeah, I heard at a at a rally not

2002
01:40:27,800 --> 01:40:30,720
Speaker 6: too long ago from one of the speakers for you know,

2003
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:33,680
Speaker 6: it was a it was a team's rally that you know,

2004
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:35,599
Speaker 6: we're getting our members hyped and all that, and one

2005
01:40:35,640 --> 01:40:39,679
Speaker 6: of the speakers mentioned that for our city, a minimum

2006
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:43,160
Speaker 6: wage that could be livable would be twenty six dollars

2007
01:40:43,200 --> 01:40:47,200
Speaker 6: an hour. And I'm just like, yeah, that seems about right,

2008
01:40:47,240 --> 01:40:49,920
Speaker 6: and that's like the bare minimum. That's like, Okay, I

2009
01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:53,240
Speaker 6: can eat enough, I can pay my rent, and I

2010
01:40:53,360 --> 01:40:55,759
Speaker 6: probably don't have a whole lot leftover.

2011
01:40:56,640 --> 01:41:00,400
Speaker 10: So yeah, especially when we have you now, like average

2012
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:04,200
Speaker 10: rent you know for one bedroom you know, around like

2013
01:41:04,240 --> 01:41:07,360
Speaker 10: fifteen hundred dollars you know these days, and so many

2014
01:41:07,439 --> 01:41:11,240
Speaker 10: landlords want, you know, want three times you know that

2015
01:41:11,280 --> 01:41:13,840
Speaker 10: rent and income. So you know, I was actually just

2016
01:41:13,920 --> 01:41:17,160
Speaker 10: kind of yeah, writing you know or you know, doing

2017
01:41:17,160 --> 01:41:19,200
Speaker 10: the math last night, I was just like, oh, okay,

2018
01:41:19,280 --> 01:41:21,920
Speaker 10: so in my hours, I would actually need forty three

2019
01:41:21,960 --> 01:41:23,320
Speaker 10: dollars an hour.

2020
01:41:25,320 --> 01:41:25,800
Speaker 3: Just to.

2021
01:41:27,720 --> 01:41:31,000
Speaker 10: You know, be making three times the average monthly rent.

2022
01:41:31,439 --> 01:41:34,599
Speaker 4: Yep. Yeah, yeah, so.

2023
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:37,320
Speaker 10: That's definitely why you know, twenty five dollars you know

2024
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:41,840
Speaker 10: an hour is the minimum. You know that, you know,

2025
01:41:42,360 --> 01:41:44,240
Speaker 10: I think we can settle for. I would love to

2026
01:41:44,280 --> 01:41:47,160
Speaker 10: see it higher, but I also recognize, you know, well,

2027
01:41:47,200 --> 01:41:50,280
Speaker 10: you know, maybe twenty five is still not quite cutting it,

2028
01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:52,599
Speaker 10: you know, in a more urban area. But you know,

2029
01:41:52,640 --> 01:41:54,600
Speaker 10: there's going to be a lot of people that's you know,

2030
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:57,880
Speaker 10: significant gains are going to help so much, you know,

2031
01:41:57,960 --> 01:42:02,599
Speaker 10: to meet their material needs. You know, definitely have to

2032
01:42:02,760 --> 01:42:05,320
Speaker 10: you know, consider this as you know, big picture, this

2033
01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:08,600
Speaker 10: is a national agreement, and you know, we got to

2034
01:42:08,640 --> 01:42:11,919
Speaker 10: get that really solid foundation and then we can expand

2035
01:42:11,960 --> 01:42:12,519
Speaker 10: from there.

2036
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:18,240
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, what the sorry as as as you were talking,

2037
01:42:18,280 --> 01:42:20,799
Speaker 4: I got a thing saying that the teamsters have settled.

2038
01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:24,320
Speaker 7: What all right?

2039
01:42:24,479 --> 01:42:24,959
Speaker 4: Think?

2040
01:42:26,680 --> 01:42:29,080
Speaker 9: Oh my gosh, what the fuck.

2041
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:31,480
Speaker 10: They're they're back at the table.

2042
01:42:31,479 --> 01:42:33,040
Speaker 9: At the negotiation table.

2043
01:42:34,160 --> 01:42:35,000
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.

2044
01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:38,760
Speaker 6: They've only been at the negotiation table for like four hours.

2045
01:42:39,200 --> 01:42:45,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, okay, I signal shots here, Yeah, Jesus Christ.

2046
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:46,840
Speaker 4: Well all right, I don't know if we're gonna leave

2047
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:49,400
Speaker 4: this in, but yeah, we've discovered live on air that.

2048
01:42:51,280 --> 01:42:57,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, teamsters win historic ups contract. Uh oh, we'll see.

2049
01:42:58,080 --> 01:42:59,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm also looking at this and see what.

2050
01:42:59,800 --> 01:43:05,120
Speaker 6: I'm Yeah, I'm at the teamster dot org website where

2051
01:43:05,160 --> 01:43:06,280
Speaker 6: they have an update on it.

2052
01:43:08,840 --> 01:43:12,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, and at least, you know, speaking of wages, at

2053
01:43:12,120 --> 01:43:15,880
Speaker 10: least the first thing that I'm seeing is existing part

2054
01:43:15,880 --> 01:43:18,439
Speaker 10: timers will be raised up to no less than twenty

2055
01:43:18,479 --> 01:43:22,439
Speaker 10: one dollars per hour immediately. Part time seniority workers earning

2056
01:43:22,520 --> 01:43:25,519
Speaker 10: more under a market right adjustment would still receive all

2057
01:43:25,560 --> 01:43:27,000
Speaker 10: new general wage increases.

2058
01:43:27,960 --> 01:43:32,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, this is uh, I'm not stoked on those wages.

2059
01:43:33,200 --> 01:43:34,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2060
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:38,519
Speaker 6: Yeah, No, I'm definitely I am twenty five or bust

2061
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:39,280
Speaker 6: on this.

2062
01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:41,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2063
01:43:41,160 --> 01:43:44,759
Speaker 9: All right, so that does that will change things.

2064
01:43:44,760 --> 01:43:49,120
Speaker 6: That definitely changes the timeline because this still has to

2065
01:43:49,160 --> 01:43:52,360
Speaker 6: be sent out to be voted on and approved by membership.

2066
01:43:52,840 --> 01:43:55,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, and what we learned.

2067
01:43:57,240 --> 01:44:00,360
Speaker 6: At the there was a call not too long ago

2068
01:44:00,400 --> 01:44:02,240
Speaker 6: where they kind of explained the process of it. So

2069
01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:05,160
Speaker 6: in the event that they would reach at tentative agreement

2070
01:44:05,680 --> 01:44:08,000
Speaker 6: that gets sent out to us, we vote from home

2071
01:44:08,160 --> 01:44:11,080
Speaker 6: and it takes about three weeks for it to ratify.

2072
01:44:11,800 --> 01:44:15,840
Speaker 6: There is still a possibility that membership could vote to

2073
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:17,800
Speaker 6: reject it, in which case they would be going back

2074
01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:22,840
Speaker 6: to the bargaining table and we could potentially be going

2075
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:26,680
Speaker 6: on strike then. But this does set it back by

2076
01:44:26,760 --> 01:44:36,320
Speaker 6: now three weeks. It'll be interesting to see what the TDU,

2077
01:44:36,439 --> 01:44:39,240
Speaker 6: which is the Team Service for a Democratic Union, which

2078
01:44:39,280 --> 01:44:44,120
Speaker 6: is a reform caucus inside our union. It'll be interesting

2079
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:50,880
Speaker 6: to see what their line is on this. So, oh

2080
01:44:50,960 --> 01:44:54,040
Speaker 6: my gosh, what a what a bomb drop to get

2081
01:44:54,040 --> 01:44:55,800
Speaker 6: in the middle of a podcast about this.

2082
01:44:58,360 --> 01:45:03,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, unfortunately can't even speak to it since gimmed a

2083
01:45:03,120 --> 01:45:03,760
Speaker 10: little bit of it.

2084
01:45:06,360 --> 01:45:08,479
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, it.

2085
01:45:08,840 --> 01:45:11,599
Speaker 4: Do they actually have the full agreement out or are

2086
01:45:11,600 --> 01:45:13,360
Speaker 4: they just do they just have this stuff?

2087
01:45:14,040 --> 01:45:17,599
Speaker 6: They will not have the full agreement out. Something that

2088
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:21,360
Speaker 6: we've been having a little bit of frustrations with within

2089
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:24,799
Speaker 6: our union is that we do not have open bargaining.

2090
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:27,719
Speaker 9: So bargaining happens. Yeah.

2091
01:45:27,840 --> 01:45:33,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, bargaining happens behind closed doors, and they occasionally give

2092
01:45:33,360 --> 01:45:36,519
Speaker 6: us updates about what's happening, but we don't really get

2093
01:45:36,520 --> 01:45:39,200
Speaker 6: to see the full picture until we're going to be

2094
01:45:39,240 --> 01:45:39,920
Speaker 6: voting on it.

2095
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:45,040
Speaker 9: And uh, I obviously think this is bad for a

2096
01:45:45,120 --> 01:45:46,000
Speaker 9: number of reasons.

2097
01:45:46,160 --> 01:45:52,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, one and a big primary one is these contracts

2098
01:45:52,560 --> 01:45:56,880
Speaker 6: that are negotiated. I was about to go get my

2099
01:45:57,120 --> 01:45:58,880
Speaker 6: copy of the contract I could show you, and then

2100
01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:00,720
Speaker 6: I remember this is a podcas asked, and that's not

2101
01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:03,400
Speaker 6: actually going to be helpful for Hey.

2102
01:46:03,240 --> 01:46:06,559
Speaker 4: We do, we do. We do visual bits on this

2103
01:46:06,600 --> 01:46:08,360
Speaker 4: podcast all the time. It's fine.

2104
01:46:08,840 --> 01:46:12,559
Speaker 6: So the size of our pok our contract is about

2105
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:16,200
Speaker 6: the size of a pocket Bible Jesus it is. It

2106
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:20,080
Speaker 6: is very very big, and it's you know, it's written

2107
01:46:20,160 --> 01:46:22,080
Speaker 6: in that legal ease and stuff like that, and so

2108
01:46:22,120 --> 01:46:26,800
Speaker 6: it's not very accessible to most of our most of

2109
01:46:26,800 --> 01:46:31,240
Speaker 6: our members. And so you know, if we had open

2110
01:46:31,240 --> 01:46:35,680
Speaker 6: and bargaining, if we had consistent like updates where like

2111
01:46:36,040 --> 01:46:38,680
Speaker 6: you know, our union leadership would be like, all right,

2112
01:46:38,720 --> 01:46:40,720
Speaker 6: so this is what we've agreed upon so far, this

2113
01:46:40,760 --> 01:46:41,760
Speaker 6: is what we've rejected.

2114
01:46:41,760 --> 01:46:42,920
Speaker 9: This is what it all means.

2115
01:46:44,000 --> 01:46:46,040
Speaker 6: You know, in the lead up to like whether or

2116
01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:48,240
Speaker 6: not you vote no, membership could have a far more

2117
01:46:48,280 --> 01:46:54,080
Speaker 6: comprehensive understanding of what is in the contract instead of

2118
01:46:54,880 --> 01:46:57,679
Speaker 6: waiting until the very end as we got little bits

2119
01:46:57,760 --> 01:47:02,040
Speaker 6: pieces and snippets and then being like, okay, well read

2120
01:47:02,080 --> 01:47:05,080
Speaker 6: this and decide how you feel.

2121
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:07,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, that's just I don't know if if

2122
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:09,640
Speaker 4: it feels like it's just a much just kind of

2123
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:14,800
Speaker 4: designed to like railroad people into signing whatever contract negotiators

2124
01:47:14,840 --> 01:47:18,280
Speaker 4: agree to. Yeah, it's kind of a disaster.

2125
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,200
Speaker 10: And without that transparency, I mean, you know, you know,

2126
01:47:22,240 --> 01:47:24,280
Speaker 10: all of us rank and file members are you know,

2127
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:27,759
Speaker 10: essentially being removed from the process, you know, being involved

2128
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:32,760
Speaker 10: in the decision making, uh, you know, stipulating what's going

2129
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:34,840
Speaker 10: to do it, you know, to meet our needs? What

2130
01:47:34,840 --> 01:47:37,519
Speaker 10: what do we need? You know out of these you know,

2131
01:47:37,960 --> 01:47:42,040
Speaker 10: five year contracts, and you know, I think it was

2132
01:47:42,160 --> 01:47:44,000
Speaker 10: just you know, a few days ago, got you know,

2133
01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:46,519
Speaker 10: get an update from the local you know, basically a

2134
01:47:46,560 --> 01:47:52,000
Speaker 10: week before you know the contract ends, you know, and

2135
01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:54,360
Speaker 10: they're you know, talking about this is like one of

2136
01:47:54,439 --> 01:47:57,960
Speaker 10: the most transparent contracts there's ever been. There's all these

2137
01:47:58,040 --> 01:48:00,160
Speaker 10: updates and you know, there's more rank and file, all

2138
01:48:01,000 --> 01:48:03,880
Speaker 10: you know, members involved in the bargaining. And it's like, well,

2139
01:48:03,880 --> 01:48:05,880
Speaker 10: that's great, you know that shows you know how far

2140
01:48:06,680 --> 01:48:09,400
Speaker 10: you know, we've come, I guess, but also it's still

2141
01:48:09,560 --> 01:48:13,040
Speaker 10: just it's kind of sad to think that you know, this,

2142
01:48:13,040 --> 01:48:16,080
Speaker 10: this process that's all banned by NDA is the most

2143
01:48:16,120 --> 01:48:18,120
Speaker 10: transparent transparent it's been.

2144
01:48:18,320 --> 01:48:20,479
Speaker 4: And and also the fact the fact that you're fighting

2145
01:48:20,520 --> 01:48:24,559
Speaker 4: this out live on air from like their press release

2146
01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:26,880
Speaker 4: that they put out on Twitter, it's like.

2147
01:48:27,080 --> 01:48:36,120
Speaker 6: What yeah, yeah, oh my gosh, absolutely absolutely absurd. Yeah,

2148
01:48:36,160 --> 01:48:39,840
Speaker 6: so it seems like this is a this is an

2149
01:48:39,880 --> 01:48:43,519
Speaker 6: agreement that is going to be pushed by union leadership

2150
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:46,880
Speaker 6: as a vote to vote yes on UH, which is

2151
01:48:46,920 --> 01:48:47,760
Speaker 6: a kind of a.

2152
01:48:47,680 --> 01:48:51,160
Speaker 9: Far cry from earlier in UH in July.

2153
01:48:51,120 --> 01:48:53,479
Speaker 6: When you know, you when the team stories were telling

2154
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:57,360
Speaker 6: ups you need to present us with either an agreement

2155
01:48:57,439 --> 01:49:00,000
Speaker 6: that we like actually agree with or present your life

2156
01:49:00,280 --> 01:49:02,600
Speaker 6: best final offer by July fifth.

2157
01:49:02,520 --> 01:49:07,160
Speaker 9: Right, Yeah, and yeah, yeah.

2158
01:49:07,040 --> 01:49:07,280
Speaker 4: So.

2159
01:49:08,680 --> 01:49:15,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, we'll we'll see how how the rank and file react.

2160
01:49:15,800 --> 01:49:22,000
Speaker 6: In the twenty eighteen contract. I know that the TDU

2161
01:49:23,000 --> 01:49:30,200
Speaker 6: tried to UH organize a vote no campaign and they

2162
01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:34,799
Speaker 6: did get a simple majority of the membership to vote no. However,

2163
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:37,040
Speaker 6: at the time and this has now been changed, but

2164
01:49:37,360 --> 01:49:43,960
Speaker 6: at the time, in our constitution, it would require a

2165
01:49:44,080 --> 01:49:47,640
Speaker 6: two thirds majority to have rejected it, and goes to

2166
01:49:47,680 --> 01:49:49,200
Speaker 6: strike Jesus Christ.

2167
01:49:51,200 --> 01:49:51,680
Speaker 4: Was it was? It was?

2168
01:49:51,680 --> 01:49:51,760
Speaker 3: That?

2169
01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:52,040
Speaker 2: Was that?

2170
01:49:52,080 --> 01:49:53,680
Speaker 4: Because it was was that? Because it has one of

2171
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:56,320
Speaker 4: those weird like electoral college systems or was it like

2172
01:49:56,360 --> 01:49:57,400
Speaker 4: you need two thirds to project?

2173
01:49:57,720 --> 01:49:59,439
Speaker 9: It was a it was a you need two thirds.

2174
01:50:00,520 --> 01:50:05,759
Speaker 6: That has been changed when when Sean, when the Reform

2175
01:50:05,800 --> 01:50:09,240
Speaker 6: slate was elected and they had their Teamsters convention, they

2176
01:50:09,320 --> 01:50:13,040
Speaker 6: changed the constitution so that it would be a simple majority.

2177
01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:18,600
Speaker 6: So yeah, well we'll see what TD the line that

2178
01:50:18,680 --> 01:50:25,280
Speaker 6: TDU wants to take, and yeah, yeah, we'll see. This

2179
01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:29,120
Speaker 6: certainly puts a wrinkle in things. I'm gonna be honest,

2180
01:50:29,240 --> 01:50:32,280
Speaker 6: I was actually really looking forward to strike pay because

2181
01:50:32,320 --> 01:50:34,080
Speaker 6: my strike pay would have paid more than my.

2182
01:50:34,160 --> 01:50:39,120
Speaker 4: Actual job does. Yeah, And I mean, I think there's like,

2183
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:41,559
Speaker 4: I think there's a few things that we can sort

2184
01:50:41,560 --> 01:50:45,320
Speaker 4: of immediately talk about from this. One is that it

2185
01:50:45,320 --> 01:50:48,679
Speaker 4: doesn't like nothing they've put out here from what I've

2186
01:50:48,680 --> 01:50:50,759
Speaker 4: read so far, I'm reading, I mean literally, I'm reading

2187
01:50:50,760 --> 01:50:53,960
Speaker 4: from the Teamsters website says you're doing anything about market

2188
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:54,920
Speaker 4: rate adjustments at all.

2189
01:50:55,720 --> 01:50:56,120
Speaker 9: Mm hmm.

2190
01:50:57,240 --> 01:51:01,040
Speaker 4: And the second thing is that you know, we we

2191
01:51:01,120 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 4: you know, we were talking earlier before we knew that

2192
01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:04,519
Speaker 4: there was a strike about sort of the impact of

2193
01:51:04,560 --> 01:51:07,280
Speaker 4: this on the entire class. And it really looks like

2194
01:51:07,400 --> 01:51:11,960
Speaker 4: both the Teamsters and ups, like you know, really wanted

2195
01:51:12,000 --> 01:51:14,639
Speaker 4: to cut a deal as you know, part of part

2196
01:51:14,680 --> 01:51:16,720
Speaker 4: of this attempt to keep everything going and to keep

2197
01:51:16,720 --> 01:51:19,679
Speaker 4: this stuff from happening, which I mean I think makes sense,

2198
01:51:19,800 --> 01:51:22,280
Speaker 4: right if you're you know, if if you're UPS, you

2199
01:51:22,320 --> 01:51:25,880
Speaker 4: don't act like we're we're having an actual sort of

2200
01:51:25,960 --> 01:51:29,679
Speaker 4: like workers and surgaency like having having having a summer

2201
01:51:29,760 --> 01:51:32,960
Speaker 4: this hot like isn't good for like, it isn't good

2202
01:51:33,000 --> 01:51:36,640
Speaker 4: for UPS. It's arguably not good for some of the

2203
01:51:36,680 --> 01:51:38,160
Speaker 4: more sort of like some of the more sort of

2204
01:51:38,160 --> 01:51:42,120
Speaker 4: conservative union leaderships either who do who unlike a lot

2205
01:51:42,120 --> 01:51:44,240
Speaker 4: of workers do not want to be on strike because

2206
01:51:44,840 --> 01:51:46,640
Speaker 4: that like that cut that cuts into the sort of

2207
01:51:46,640 --> 01:51:48,439
Speaker 4: war chest of capital that they have to manage.

2208
01:51:48,920 --> 01:51:49,880
Speaker 9: Mm hmmm hmm.

2209
01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:57,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Uh, they're you know, they're just recently

2210
01:51:57,120 --> 01:52:01,120
Speaker 6: on Twitter or excuse me, x it's now, but just

2211
01:52:01,160 --> 01:52:03,040
Speaker 6: recently on Twitter there was a fair amount of a

2212
01:52:03,360 --> 01:52:07,839
Speaker 6: strike discourse, and there was like you know, labor activists

2213
01:52:07,880 --> 01:52:11,200
Speaker 6: and stuff saying that, you know, like it's good, it's

2214
01:52:11,240 --> 01:52:14,200
Speaker 6: good for you know, if they reach a tentative agreement

2215
01:52:14,320 --> 01:52:19,360
Speaker 6: that you know, so yeah, yeah, if they reach a

2216
01:52:19,400 --> 01:52:22,479
Speaker 6: tentative agreement that you know, makes those material gains, it's

2217
01:52:22,520 --> 01:52:25,720
Speaker 6: better to not go on strike. And like, I I know,

2218
01:52:25,880 --> 01:52:28,880
Speaker 6: I know, like and to me that's like a little

2219
01:52:28,880 --> 01:52:31,840
Speaker 6: bit wild because one there is so much and we

2220
01:52:31,880 --> 01:52:35,559
Speaker 6: could demand so much more. But also like you know,

2221
01:52:35,720 --> 01:52:39,880
Speaker 6: collective action, you know, in order to be consistent, to

2222
01:52:39,920 --> 01:52:43,519
Speaker 6: be good at it, it requires you to undertake it,

2223
01:52:44,160 --> 01:52:49,000
Speaker 6: right Like, and you know, when I think about like

2224
01:52:49,120 --> 01:52:54,200
Speaker 6: how our local is, they have a very service model

2225
01:52:54,439 --> 01:52:59,760
Speaker 6: orientation to unionism as opposed to an organizing model, and I,

2226
01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:02,240
Speaker 6: you know, I was really under the impression that this

2227
01:53:02,640 --> 01:53:06,040
Speaker 6: potential strike could have kind of like you know, lit

2228
01:53:06,080 --> 01:53:08,200
Speaker 6: a fire under their ass and like kind of got

2229
01:53:08,240 --> 01:53:12,559
Speaker 6: back into like the organizing aspect of unionism, right uh.

2230
01:53:12,960 --> 01:53:15,320
Speaker 9: And like they weren't that great at that.

2231
01:53:15,520 --> 01:53:19,120
Speaker 6: I swear sometimes we would talk to them about like, hey, so,

2232
01:53:19,320 --> 01:53:21,280
Speaker 6: like have you tried like mobilizing members.

2233
01:53:21,320 --> 01:53:23,439
Speaker 9: Have you tried like showing up the gates? Have you?

2234
01:53:23,600 --> 01:53:27,200
Speaker 6: Like you know you can like there's like programs out

2235
01:53:27,200 --> 01:53:29,920
Speaker 6: there where you can text your entire membership about like

2236
01:53:30,479 --> 01:53:32,800
Speaker 6: you know, come to this like contract update. And it's

2237
01:53:32,880 --> 01:53:36,479
Speaker 6: like we were just speaking a different language. Like they

2238
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:39,559
Speaker 6: just had no idea, Like they had no idea, and

2239
01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:43,200
Speaker 6: they would look at our union meetings where like you know,

2240
01:53:43,280 --> 01:53:47,200
Speaker 6: we represent like I think over like a like I

2241
01:53:47,200 --> 01:53:50,000
Speaker 6: think well over like one thousand workers. I don't have

2242
01:53:50,040 --> 01:53:51,360
Speaker 6: the numbers on that, so I'm not going to get

2243
01:53:51,360 --> 01:53:54,800
Speaker 6: more specific, uh, but like well over that. And they

2244
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:57,240
Speaker 6: would look at our union meetings where we have maybe

2245
01:53:57,320 --> 01:53:59,720
Speaker 6: fifty to seventy people, and they're just kind of like, well,

2246
01:53:59,760 --> 01:54:01,960
Speaker 6: this is just as good as it's going to get.

2247
01:54:02,880 --> 01:54:05,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's nonsense, Like it's nonsense.

2248
01:54:05,240 --> 01:54:08,320
Speaker 6: It's nonsense, like you know, like back in the fucking

2249
01:54:08,479 --> 01:54:11,400
Speaker 6: like you know, from like the tens to the fifties,

2250
01:54:11,760 --> 01:54:14,360
Speaker 6: union meetings would bring in just so many people and

2251
01:54:14,360 --> 01:54:17,720
Speaker 6: they don't have anywhere near the like technological advance advantages

2252
01:54:17,760 --> 01:54:21,640
Speaker 6: that we have now. And it was just it's very

2253
01:54:21,720 --> 01:54:25,479
Speaker 6: much like, yes, you tell us about your grievances, we

2254
01:54:25,560 --> 01:54:28,080
Speaker 6: get those filed, and we do make those like wins

2255
01:54:28,080 --> 01:54:31,720
Speaker 6: for you, and like that's that's good. Like you know,

2256
01:54:31,760 --> 01:54:35,520
Speaker 6: there are some unions that barely do that much, and

2257
01:54:35,560 --> 01:54:36,960
Speaker 6: the fact that they do that is great.

2258
01:54:37,800 --> 01:54:40,000
Speaker 9: But like you know, at my hub, I.

2259
01:54:40,000 --> 01:54:44,240
Speaker 6: Remember I was I was talking to my carpool and

2260
01:54:44,640 --> 01:54:47,240
Speaker 6: he didn't even know who his steward was. And I'm

2261
01:54:47,280 --> 01:54:50,200
Speaker 6: like the only person that gives him updates about what's

2262
01:54:50,240 --> 01:54:52,600
Speaker 6: going on in the union. Yeah, and that's just because

2263
01:54:52,680 --> 01:54:55,400
Speaker 6: like when I started working at UPS, I was just like, yeah,

2264
01:54:55,440 --> 01:54:57,680
Speaker 6: I'm going to go to these fucking union meetings. I'm

2265
01:54:57,680 --> 01:54:59,800
Speaker 6: gonna find out what's going on. I want to be

2266
01:54:59,840 --> 01:55:02,440
Speaker 6: in involved. And most people, you know, it's just a

2267
01:55:02,520 --> 01:55:05,000
Speaker 6: job for them, and they don't know all the things

2268
01:55:05,000 --> 01:55:08,440
Speaker 6: that a union can provide for them or how a

2269
01:55:08,600 --> 01:55:12,280
Speaker 6: union can back them up. And part of that's because

2270
01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:16,400
Speaker 6: you know, union leadership, you know, has decided that that's

2271
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:20,480
Speaker 6: not something they really they don't need to be as

2272
01:55:20,520 --> 01:55:22,280
Speaker 6: engaged with the members as they could be.

2273
01:55:22,600 --> 01:55:22,800
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2274
01:55:22,800 --> 01:55:25,520
Speaker 4: Well, and there's there's a second thing there too, which

2275
01:55:25,600 --> 01:55:29,480
Speaker 4: is like, okay, if you are like you know, if

2276
01:55:29,600 --> 01:55:31,960
Speaker 4: if if if, if you are someone you know, if

2277
01:55:31,960 --> 01:55:33,600
Speaker 4: you were in a position of leadership, and you're in

2278
01:55:33,640 --> 01:55:36,800
Speaker 4: your position of leadership. Because there's incredible base, there's like

2279
01:55:36,840 --> 01:55:39,839
Speaker 4: really really lowd attendance for union elections, right, really load turnout,

2280
01:55:39,840 --> 01:55:42,360
Speaker 4: which is which is usually true, right like union union

2281
01:55:42,440 --> 01:55:46,480
Speaker 4: election turnout tends to be just atrocious. You don't actually

2282
01:55:46,520 --> 01:55:49,240
Speaker 4: want more people being involved because the more people that

2283
01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:50,680
Speaker 4: are involved, the more likely is it a bunch of

2284
01:55:50,680 --> 01:55:52,280
Speaker 4: people are going to show up in the election. Someone's

2285
01:55:52,280 --> 01:55:53,640
Speaker 4: good and you know when someone's gonna look at one

2286
01:55:53,640 --> 01:55:54,880
Speaker 4: of the deals you cut and it's gonna be like,

2287
01:55:54,880 --> 01:55:57,480
Speaker 4: what the fuck are you doing? Right, So there's there's

2288
01:55:57,520 --> 01:55:59,560
Speaker 4: there's a lot of sort of perverse intensive structures in

2289
01:55:59,640 --> 01:56:02,560
Speaker 4: terms of like just to sort of the basic organizational

2290
01:56:02,600 --> 01:56:06,360
Speaker 4: electoral structure that gets you, you know, like people cutting

2291
01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:09,040
Speaker 4: deals and culling and you know, like trying to cut

2292
01:56:09,040 --> 01:56:11,000
Speaker 4: off the sort of like hot summer and its knees.

2293
01:56:11,960 --> 01:56:14,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, I have something funny that's kind of related to that.

2294
01:56:15,000 --> 01:56:19,000
Speaker 6: So when we were voting to authorize a to authorize

2295
01:56:19,000 --> 01:56:21,680
Speaker 6: a strike, right, you know, we did it and all

2296
01:56:21,720 --> 01:56:24,640
Speaker 6: of that, and you know, Sean O'Brien announced that there

2297
01:56:24,680 --> 01:56:28,760
Speaker 6: was going to be voting at the gates and our local.

2298
01:56:31,840 --> 01:56:33,800
Speaker 6: Initially it was like, oh no, we're just going to

2299
01:56:33,880 --> 01:56:37,280
Speaker 6: have people come to the hall between the hours of

2300
01:56:37,320 --> 01:56:40,640
Speaker 6: eight and ten on two specific days and we'll do

2301
01:56:40,720 --> 01:56:43,400
Speaker 6: voting that way. Eventually they did change it after they

2302
01:56:43,440 --> 01:56:46,560
Speaker 6: got pressure I think probably from up top and below.

2303
01:56:46,680 --> 01:56:50,640
Speaker 6: But one of the members who is involved was like,

2304
01:56:50,920 --> 01:56:54,160
Speaker 6: oh no, no, no, no, like it'll be better if it's

2305
01:56:54,280 --> 01:56:57,560
Speaker 6: just the people that are motivated enough to go, because

2306
01:56:57,600 --> 01:56:59,480
Speaker 6: they're the ones that are going to like vote the

2307
01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:03,200
Speaker 6: thing on through. And that was just that was wild too,

2308
01:57:04,120 --> 01:57:07,240
Speaker 6: seeing that sort of perspective, because if we you know,

2309
01:57:07,400 --> 01:57:09,680
Speaker 6: if the union is there, if like you know, our

2310
01:57:09,800 --> 01:57:12,080
Speaker 6: union reps, our business agents, if they're there, if they're

2311
01:57:12,080 --> 01:57:15,880
Speaker 6: constantly engaging membership, then we will all be on the

2312
01:57:15,920 --> 01:57:19,240
Speaker 6: same page. Like they're the ones that have all of

2313
01:57:19,280 --> 01:57:22,400
Speaker 6: the like you know, the like technical information. They're the

2314
01:57:22,400 --> 01:57:24,760
Speaker 6: ones that can really talk to they can talk to

2315
01:57:24,800 --> 01:57:28,080
Speaker 6: people about you know, like this is how much UPS

2316
01:57:28,160 --> 01:57:30,720
Speaker 6: is making and profits, this is like what they're paying

2317
01:57:30,760 --> 01:57:32,000
Speaker 6: our CEO, this is.

2318
01:57:32,000 --> 01:57:33,960
Speaker 9: All of this. You deserve more and we're going to

2319
01:57:34,000 --> 01:57:34,520
Speaker 9: fight for it.

2320
01:57:35,040 --> 01:57:38,320
Speaker 6: And if they had those constant interactions, you would all

2321
01:57:38,360 --> 01:57:39,880
Speaker 6: be on the same page and we wouldn't have to

2322
01:57:39,880 --> 01:57:43,520
Speaker 6: worry about, well, if there's increased voter turnout, it might

2323
01:57:43,560 --> 01:57:46,200
Speaker 6: make the vote kind of iffy, you.

2324
01:57:46,200 --> 01:57:50,320
Speaker 10: Know, like, yeah, there's definitely you know, that's been one

2325
01:57:50,320 --> 01:57:53,560
Speaker 10: of my biggest scripes is around uh, you know, communications,

2326
01:57:53,800 --> 01:57:57,640
Speaker 10: particularly you know from the local which is kind of

2327
01:57:57,680 --> 01:58:01,680
Speaker 10: practically non existent, and you know, it's there's so many

2328
01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:05,320
Speaker 10: even like between new hires and you know, even people

2329
01:58:05,400 --> 01:58:07,360
Speaker 10: have been there a few years. A part timers like

2330
01:58:07,960 --> 01:58:12,680
Speaker 10: don't know their rights under our contract and you know

2331
01:58:12,920 --> 01:58:17,080
Speaker 10: it was only because of organizing and you know, talking

2332
01:58:17,080 --> 01:58:19,440
Speaker 10: with people that I know those rights and can you

2333
01:58:19,480 --> 01:58:24,480
Speaker 10: know then share that you know knowledge with other you know, teamsters.

2334
01:58:25,160 --> 01:58:28,040
Speaker 10: But it's kind of like, well, why why are we

2335
01:58:28,160 --> 01:58:31,520
Speaker 10: having to do this? And I mean, of course internal organizing,

2336
01:58:31,600 --> 01:58:34,480
Speaker 10: you know, knowledge is super important, but it'd be nice,

2337
01:58:34,600 --> 01:58:37,880
Speaker 10: you know why, you know, why isn't there a you know,

2338
01:58:38,040 --> 01:58:41,280
Speaker 10: like a welcome packet. Why are there you know, not

2339
01:58:41,520 --> 01:58:45,160
Speaker 10: more maybe not like full meetings, but at least something

2340
01:58:45,200 --> 01:58:49,120
Speaker 10: where you know, our union officials can meet with rank

2341
01:58:49,160 --> 01:58:51,160
Speaker 10: and file members. And I think I'm partly you know,

2342
01:58:51,240 --> 01:58:53,640
Speaker 10: speaking to that because you know, the shift I work

2343
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:58,440
Speaker 10: is during union meetings, so you know, attending those is

2344
01:58:59,280 --> 01:59:02,760
Speaker 10: not you know, not quite feasible, uh, you know for

2345
01:59:02,840 --> 01:59:05,440
Speaker 10: me or other people on my shift. And I know

2346
01:59:05,480 --> 01:59:07,440
Speaker 10: that's also kind of seems like it's led to this

2347
01:59:07,600 --> 01:59:10,560
Speaker 10: like some contempt for part timers like oh, we're not involved,

2348
01:59:11,240 --> 01:59:13,920
Speaker 10: you know, we don't care, but it's like we don't

2349
01:59:14,080 --> 01:59:18,520
Speaker 10: you know, we don't necessarily know you know about the meetings,

2350
01:59:18,680 --> 01:59:21,120
Speaker 10: or that you know, there's the scheduling conflict, or you know,

2351
01:59:21,160 --> 01:59:23,640
Speaker 10: again talking about like we don't even know what our

2352
01:59:23,800 --> 01:59:27,760
Speaker 10: you know, basic rights are you know under our contract.

2353
01:59:29,040 --> 01:59:31,200
Speaker 4: Well, it's like a like you can't you can't not

2354
01:59:31,520 --> 01:59:34,240
Speaker 4: explain to people. You can't not onboard people and then

2355
01:59:34,240 --> 01:59:37,600
Speaker 4: complain that they're not onboarded, Like come on, this.

2356
01:59:37,640 --> 01:59:41,400
Speaker 10: Is a sad self fulfilling prophecy there. You know, you're

2357
01:59:41,440 --> 01:59:44,360
Speaker 10: creating the outcome that you think you know already exists

2358
01:59:44,360 --> 01:59:46,600
Speaker 10: because you're not engaging members.

2359
01:59:47,400 --> 01:59:48,880
Speaker 4: So there was no other thing that I wanted to

2360
01:59:48,920 --> 01:59:50,880
Speaker 4: talk about, which is that there's been a lot of

2361
01:59:51,600 --> 01:59:55,880
Speaker 4: like I don't know, I've been seeing this in sort

2362
01:59:55,880 --> 01:59:59,200
Speaker 4: of various places in the discourse talking about the strike,

2363
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:04,360
Speaker 4: which is that there's a lot of people who basically

2364
02:00:04,440 --> 02:00:06,960
Speaker 4: are holding onto the notion that a people don't want

2365
02:00:06,960 --> 02:00:09,560
Speaker 4: to strike and b that like striking is bad and

2366
02:00:09,560 --> 02:00:11,320
Speaker 4: that you should want to do it as little as possible.

2367
02:00:12,400 --> 02:00:15,440
Speaker 4: And you know, this pisses me off for like a

2368
02:00:15,440 --> 02:00:17,160
Speaker 4: lot of reasons, one of which is that, like my

2369
02:00:17,160 --> 02:00:18,880
Speaker 4: grandma was a teamster and she was a she was

2370
02:00:18,920 --> 02:00:21,200
Speaker 4: a union punch card operator. Like back in like the

2371
02:00:21,240 --> 02:00:26,360
Speaker 4: seventies and eighties, and you know, my grandma is like

2372
02:00:26,360 --> 02:00:29,800
Speaker 4: like not like a leftist, right like, we have to

2373
02:00:29,800 --> 02:00:32,040
Speaker 4: stop her from giving money to the Fallen Gong. Like

2374
02:00:32,200 --> 02:00:34,480
Speaker 4: she's so you know, this is this is the kind

2375
02:00:34,520 --> 02:00:36,800
Speaker 4: of thing super dealing with you, right, But like she

2376
02:00:37,040 --> 02:00:39,720
Speaker 4: loved going on strike, right like. And that's the thing

2377
02:00:39,720 --> 02:00:42,160
Speaker 4: that like my family who's not like particularly sort of

2378
02:00:42,240 --> 02:00:44,120
Speaker 4: labor friendly or like, oh yeah, no, we love going

2379
02:00:44,160 --> 02:00:46,400
Speaker 4: on strike. Because that's that's why she has insurance, right

2380
02:00:46,600 --> 02:00:48,560
Speaker 4: because because the team shirts were going with any eighties

2381
02:00:48,600 --> 02:00:51,560
Speaker 4: teams just go on shrike, and I you know, and

2382
02:00:51,600 --> 02:00:52,960
Speaker 4: I think I think that's an everything that's like this,

2383
02:00:53,040 --> 02:00:55,400
Speaker 4: you know, this kind of well okay, then there's two

2384
02:00:55,400 --> 02:00:57,000
Speaker 4: ways to look of it at it. One is that

2385
02:00:57,040 --> 02:00:59,920
Speaker 4: it's a fundamental misreading of the situation that's happening right now,

2386
02:01:00,320 --> 02:01:03,000
Speaker 4: which is, no, people absolutely love going on strike. People

2387
02:01:03,040 --> 02:01:05,400
Speaker 4: are really excited to go on strike. People who people

2388
02:01:05,400 --> 02:01:08,320
Speaker 4: whose politics are not like, you know, people whose polities

2389
02:01:08,320 --> 02:01:10,200
Speaker 4: are not aligned with the left, really like going on

2390
02:01:10,280 --> 02:01:12,800
Speaker 4: strike and are really excited about it. And this is

2391
02:01:12,840 --> 02:01:15,520
Speaker 4: something that's happening sort of irrespective of this, there's been

2392
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:17,480
Speaker 4: a bunch of wildcat strikes. This is something that's been

2393
02:01:17,480 --> 02:01:20,400
Speaker 4: happening sort of irrespective of like actual union membership, as

2394
02:01:20,440 --> 02:01:21,960
Speaker 4: people want to do this. We've also seen sort of

2395
02:01:22,000 --> 02:01:24,760
Speaker 4: the great resignation over the last few years of you know,

2396
02:01:24,840 --> 02:01:26,720
Speaker 4: what is effectively a massive like part of the reason

2397
02:01:26,760 --> 02:01:29,160
Speaker 4: the conditions for labor are like this strong right now

2398
02:01:29,720 --> 02:01:33,000
Speaker 4: is because there's been this massive informal strike of people

2399
02:01:33,080 --> 02:01:35,040
Speaker 4: just sort of of people, you know, walking off the job,

2400
02:01:35,200 --> 02:01:38,200
Speaker 4: like deciding their job fucking sucks and quitting, and that's

2401
02:01:38,240 --> 02:01:41,480
Speaker 4: been putting a lot of pressure on employers and you know,

2402
02:01:41,560 --> 02:01:43,600
Speaker 4: and as simultaneous this, you know, I think I think

2403
02:01:43,640 --> 02:01:46,440
Speaker 4: the reading of this that's more sort of cynical is that, like,

2404
02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:48,960
Speaker 4: these people know this, right, they know that people want

2405
02:01:48,960 --> 02:01:51,160
Speaker 4: to go on strike, and they're looking at it and

2406
02:01:51,160 --> 02:01:54,320
Speaker 4: they're terrified, and their conclusion is like, we have to

2407
02:01:54,360 --> 02:01:57,320
Speaker 4: fucking stop, you know, we have to stop with this

2408
02:01:57,360 --> 02:01:59,560
Speaker 4: wave of labor militancy before it gets going. Because if

2409
02:01:59,560 --> 02:02:01,840
Speaker 4: it gets going, and you know, if you're like, if

2410
02:02:01,840 --> 02:02:04,440
Speaker 4: you're you know, like a sort of centrist liberal politician,

2411
02:02:04,520 --> 02:02:07,560
Speaker 4: or if you're like a conservative union bureaucrat, like that's

2412
02:02:07,680 --> 02:02:10,760
Speaker 4: terrifying for you, then there's you know, there's there's a

2413
02:02:10,800 --> 02:02:13,760
Speaker 4: lot of people who have a lot to lose if

2414
02:02:13,960 --> 02:02:17,120
Speaker 4: if you know, like if really sort of a president

2415
02:02:17,320 --> 02:02:19,160
Speaker 4: wave of labor militancy gets going.

2416
02:02:20,400 --> 02:02:22,880
Speaker 9: Yeah, absolutely absolutely.

2417
02:02:23,720 --> 02:02:26,600
Speaker 6: You know, when I think of, you know, people in

2418
02:02:26,680 --> 02:02:28,960
Speaker 6: wanting to go on strike, I guess I'll touch on

2419
02:02:29,000 --> 02:02:31,760
Speaker 6: two things here, which is that you know, at my hub,

2420
02:02:31,760 --> 02:02:34,920
Speaker 6: whenever we talk about going on strike there, you know,

2421
02:02:35,560 --> 02:02:37,800
Speaker 6: there is a sense that, yes, people really want it,

2422
02:02:37,840 --> 02:02:42,960
Speaker 6: and also they're really worried that they aren't going to

2423
02:02:43,000 --> 02:02:46,280
Speaker 6: be able to that. Like, you know, we're going to

2424
02:02:46,320 --> 02:02:48,880
Speaker 6: get this kind of agreement that most people will want,

2425
02:02:49,080 --> 02:02:52,280
Speaker 6: and it's not going to happen, and we've had all

2426
02:02:52,280 --> 02:02:55,040
Speaker 6: of this build up and you know, it's kind of

2427
02:02:55,120 --> 02:02:59,160
Speaker 6: kind of you know, fall flat. And then you know,

2428
02:02:59,200 --> 02:03:02,839
Speaker 6: also I've a fair amount of time on picket lines

2429
02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:06,760
Speaker 6: as like a community supporter, and you know, there is

2430
02:03:06,840 --> 02:03:11,480
Speaker 6: something incredibly magical about being on strike, you know, like

2431
02:03:11,760 --> 02:03:16,120
Speaker 6: there's often just this outpouring of community support for the workers,

2432
02:03:16,280 --> 02:03:20,840
Speaker 6: right and workers get to see that their labor is

2433
02:03:21,000 --> 02:03:25,800
Speaker 6: extremely valued by the larger community, and I think that

2434
02:03:25,920 --> 02:03:29,440
Speaker 6: is really important. I think that builds bonds of solidarity,

2435
02:03:29,480 --> 02:03:31,920
Speaker 6: and you get to see the other unions who come

2436
02:03:31,960 --> 02:03:33,880
Speaker 6: out and support of your strike, and then you know,

2437
02:03:34,000 --> 02:03:36,840
Speaker 6: you go and support them, and then it creates Yeah,

2438
02:03:36,880 --> 02:03:42,600
Speaker 6: it creates these bonds that you know aren't really they

2439
02:03:42,680 --> 02:03:47,720
Speaker 6: can be achieved without it, but it's just so much

2440
02:03:47,760 --> 02:03:49,680
Speaker 6: more bonding. I guess I'm going to use the term

2441
02:03:49,720 --> 02:03:53,120
Speaker 6: bonds a lot, but and there really isn't a substitute

2442
02:03:53,200 --> 02:03:56,920
Speaker 6: for it. And you know, and then people also they

2443
02:03:56,920 --> 02:04:01,000
Speaker 6: get to experience the power that they have as you know,

2444
02:04:01,200 --> 02:04:05,200
Speaker 6: as labor right like they be can they realize it's

2445
02:04:05,240 --> 02:04:09,320
Speaker 6: like oh wait, no, Like I'm on strike and this

2446
02:04:09,400 --> 02:04:13,600
Speaker 6: company is like the shit is hitting the fan for

2447
02:04:13,680 --> 02:04:16,760
Speaker 6: them because they don't have us who know how to

2448
02:04:16,840 --> 02:04:21,720
Speaker 6: do our jobs in there doing them right. Like you know,

2449
02:04:21,920 --> 02:04:25,440
Speaker 6: I was at a picket line for this other company

2450
02:04:27,120 --> 02:04:30,160
Speaker 6: a few years back, and like the workers there on

2451
02:04:30,200 --> 02:04:34,000
Speaker 6: the line were constantly giving the updates. They'd be like, yeah, man,

2452
02:04:34,120 --> 02:04:37,320
Speaker 6: it's wild I heard in there that like, you know,

2453
02:04:37,440 --> 02:04:40,040
Speaker 6: the managers are trying to do our jobs and like

2454
02:04:40,720 --> 02:04:43,240
Speaker 6: none of what they make is edible and they're throwing

2455
02:04:43,280 --> 02:04:47,720
Speaker 6: it all away and like breaking the machines are breaking

2456
02:04:48,000 --> 02:04:51,600
Speaker 6: like yep, and so they're one they're seeing that, yes,

2457
02:04:51,760 --> 02:04:55,520
Speaker 6: their labor is specific, it has value, it is necessary

2458
02:04:55,640 --> 02:05:00,680
Speaker 6: and crucial, and they are getting that community support and

2459
02:05:01,240 --> 02:05:04,640
Speaker 6: you know, there's not a lot of other opportunities for

2460
02:05:05,200 --> 02:05:07,160
Speaker 6: those realizations to happen.

2461
02:05:08,120 --> 02:05:10,080
Speaker 4: So yeah, and I mean this is something that like

2462
02:05:10,360 --> 02:05:13,160
Speaker 4: I've literally seen this, like our teachers union. We've talked

2463
02:05:13,160 --> 02:05:14,520
Speaker 4: about this a bit on the show, but like our

2464
02:05:14,760 --> 02:05:18,400
Speaker 4: local teachers union in Chicago, like got you know, they

2465
02:05:18,400 --> 02:05:20,680
Speaker 4: got to reform caucussy and they're not perfect, but you know,

2466
02:05:20,720 --> 02:05:22,880
Speaker 4: they're they're much better than what was happening before. And

2467
02:05:23,480 --> 02:05:24,920
Speaker 4: you know, and one of the things they do is

2468
02:05:24,960 --> 02:05:26,880
Speaker 4: they've they've been on strike a lot of times. Go

2469
02:05:26,920 --> 02:05:28,880
Speaker 4: to last about Deck, like decade, a decade, bit over

2470
02:05:28,920 --> 02:05:32,640
Speaker 4: a decade, and it changed the city. Like Chicago is

2471
02:05:32,680 --> 02:05:37,000
Speaker 4: a you know, was for i mean decades, decades and decades.

2472
02:05:37,040 --> 02:05:42,880
Speaker 4: This just like interminable machine run like neoliberal hellhole. And

2473
02:05:43,040 --> 02:05:44,160
Speaker 4: you know, I mean I'm not going to say like

2474
02:05:44,240 --> 02:05:46,360
Speaker 4: Chicago's like some kind of like you know, like beacon

2475
02:05:46,400 --> 02:05:49,200
Speaker 4: of the Left or whatever, but like the city is

2476
02:05:49,320 --> 02:05:51,440
Speaker 4: just different after it. And it was just the one

2477
02:05:51,480 --> 02:05:53,520
Speaker 4: truck they kept they kept going on Shrek and they

2478
02:05:53,560 --> 02:05:55,840
Speaker 4: kept going on the Shrek, and you know, you can

2479
02:05:55,920 --> 02:05:57,680
Speaker 4: you can look at the quality of their wins and

2480
02:05:57,720 --> 02:05:59,640
Speaker 4: you can sort of like you know, like I mean

2481
02:05:59,680 --> 02:06:00,960
Speaker 4: there's a like I know, I mean, like I know

2482
02:06:01,000 --> 02:06:03,200
Speaker 4: people who like have quipbals with sort of like exactly

2483
02:06:03,200 --> 02:06:06,120
Speaker 4: what happened in the contract negotiations, but like you know,

2484
02:06:06,320 --> 02:06:08,880
Speaker 4: they they went on strike multiple times and they won

2485
02:06:09,520 --> 02:06:12,280
Speaker 4: and that really and then you know, the every thing

2486
02:06:12,320 --> 02:06:13,880
Speaker 4: happened is the thing you were talking about, right, is

2487
02:06:13,920 --> 02:06:15,880
Speaker 4: like suddenly you're at these pickets and like the entire

2488
02:06:15,920 --> 02:06:18,000
Speaker 4: community is showing up, like everyone's showing up with food,

2489
02:06:18,040 --> 02:06:21,760
Speaker 4: Like it changed, it changed the city, and you know,

2490
02:06:21,880 --> 02:06:23,360
Speaker 4: and I think this guess is an everything I think

2491
02:06:23,400 --> 02:06:25,680
Speaker 4: is important here about and what's you know, sort of

2492
02:06:25,680 --> 02:06:28,800
Speaker 4: the potential that being averted is. The interesting thing about

2493
02:06:28,800 --> 02:06:31,080
Speaker 4: this strike wave is that we've had a number you know,

2494
02:06:31,080 --> 02:06:33,320
Speaker 4: we've we had like the whole we had sort of

2495
02:06:33,360 --> 02:06:35,480
Speaker 4: the wildcat teacher strikes in twenty seventeen. We've had a

2496
02:06:35,560 --> 02:06:37,360
Speaker 4: couple of a couple of waves of teacher strikes, but

2497
02:06:37,440 --> 02:06:39,240
Speaker 4: like most of the strikes that have been happening at

2498
02:06:39,240 --> 02:06:42,760
Speaker 4: public sector unions, we haven't had these giant strikes other

2499
02:06:42,840 --> 02:06:46,000
Speaker 4: than basically, I mean there's been some right, there's there's

2500
02:06:46,000 --> 02:06:47,640
Speaker 4: there's been a lot of strikes in the healthcare sector.

2501
02:06:47,720 --> 02:06:49,960
Speaker 4: We haven't had a strike like at this scale in

2502
02:06:50,000 --> 02:06:54,120
Speaker 4: the private sector in you know outside basically like the

2503
02:06:54,400 --> 02:06:57,200
Speaker 4: Team series and is like the Team Series and like

2504
02:06:57,320 --> 02:06:59,640
Speaker 4: the Guild are like the only two big unions on

2505
02:06:59,680 --> 02:07:03,760
Speaker 4: that who go on strike like even kind of regularly.

2506
02:07:03,800 --> 02:07:05,640
Speaker 4: Even that's like that's like a once in like twenty

2507
02:07:05,720 --> 02:07:09,920
Speaker 4: year thing, right, And so I don't know, like I think,

2508
02:07:10,000 --> 02:07:13,640
Speaker 4: I think just sort of the the potential of what's

2509
02:07:13,680 --> 02:07:17,200
Speaker 4: being lost here is enormous if if what happens is

2510
02:07:17,240 --> 02:07:21,640
Speaker 4: that this deal, which is like I'm not great from

2511
02:07:21,640 --> 02:07:23,640
Speaker 4: when I've seen it from the initial things. Although again,

2512
02:07:23,760 --> 02:07:25,920
Speaker 4: like we still don't fucking know what's in this deal,

2513
02:07:25,960 --> 02:07:28,800
Speaker 4: and we're not going to for like a bit at

2514
02:07:28,840 --> 02:07:30,560
Speaker 4: like at least until they fucking release the thing.

2515
02:07:31,320 --> 02:07:31,720
Speaker 1: I don't know.

2516
02:07:32,920 --> 02:07:34,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean obviously, you know, we'll we'll we'll have

2517
02:07:35,080 --> 02:07:39,040
Speaker 10: to see, you know, what's what's in that agreement. Yeah,

2518
02:07:39,120 --> 02:07:42,000
Speaker 10: but you know, at least just you know, for you know,

2519
02:07:42,080 --> 02:07:45,000
Speaker 10: my own views, you know, it's any you know company

2520
02:07:45,280 --> 02:07:47,680
Speaker 10: you know that's paying you poverty wages, or you know,

2521
02:07:47,720 --> 02:07:51,440
Speaker 10: there's unsafe work conditions and just seems like, well, on principle,

2522
02:07:51,800 --> 02:07:54,920
Speaker 10: there needs to be a work stoppage, like that's you know,

2523
02:07:55,400 --> 02:07:57,320
Speaker 10: if you're going to treat people that way, that's just

2524
02:07:57,360 --> 02:07:58,080
Speaker 10: the result.

2525
02:07:59,000 --> 02:08:01,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

2526
02:08:01,720 --> 02:08:04,280
Speaker 6: Something that I'm like kind of thinking about right now

2527
02:08:04,680 --> 02:08:09,200
Speaker 6: is like, so, like the twenty one uh seventy five

2528
02:08:09,240 --> 02:08:11,720
Speaker 6: I believe it is for part time workers. You know,

2529
02:08:11,760 --> 02:08:14,960
Speaker 6: that is a significant increase from the fifteen fifty, but

2530
02:08:15,000 --> 02:08:17,400
Speaker 6: we're just at the beginning of our five year contract.

2531
02:08:17,800 --> 02:08:18,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2532
02:08:18,280 --> 02:08:20,720
Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, like I.

2533
02:08:20,680 --> 02:08:23,400
Speaker 6: Feel like, you know, like it's being viewed as like, oh, well,

2534
02:08:23,400 --> 02:08:28,760
Speaker 6: that's like okay for right now. It's you know, kind

2535
02:08:28,760 --> 02:08:31,480
Speaker 6: of not but it's really just not going to be

2536
02:08:31,520 --> 02:08:35,080
Speaker 6: okay in five years when we have to have these

2537
02:08:35,120 --> 02:08:40,040
Speaker 6: contract negotiations again. And because we're not starting out with

2538
02:08:40,160 --> 02:08:44,040
Speaker 6: a solid twenty five dollars an hour, we're going to

2539
02:08:44,120 --> 02:08:47,080
Speaker 6: be playing catch up to what is not really okay

2540
02:08:47,160 --> 02:08:52,960
Speaker 6: right now. Like it's just gonna like it's like it's

2541
02:08:53,040 --> 02:08:55,840
Speaker 6: just going to keep happening. You know, by the time

2542
02:08:55,880 --> 02:09:00,520
Speaker 6: we get to twenty twenty eight, you know, probably get

2543
02:09:00,600 --> 02:09:02,960
Speaker 6: up to twenty five dollars an hour. Maybe, but by

2544
02:09:03,000 --> 02:09:05,720
Speaker 6: that time, you know, who knows what we're actually going

2545
02:09:05,760 --> 02:09:09,200
Speaker 6: to need in order to survive in this economy. Yeah, so,

2546
02:09:09,840 --> 02:09:11,720
Speaker 6: you know, I feel like that wage is just not

2547
02:09:12,080 --> 02:09:14,560
Speaker 6: it's not proactive enough for what we're going to need

2548
02:09:14,600 --> 02:09:20,000
Speaker 6: in the coming years. And you know, in there there

2549
02:09:20,080 --> 02:09:22,880
Speaker 6: is stuff about like, you know, wage increases for like

2550
02:09:23,040 --> 02:09:25,760
Speaker 6: you know, however long you've been there and stuff like that.

2551
02:09:27,880 --> 02:09:33,160
Speaker 6: But yeah, I you know, you know, like I graduated

2552
02:09:33,160 --> 02:09:36,440
Speaker 6: from high school in like two thousand and eight, and

2553
02:09:36,520 --> 02:09:39,440
Speaker 6: I just feel like the my entire life, the economy

2554
02:09:39,480 --> 02:09:42,200
Speaker 6: has just been fucking shitty. And when they tell me

2555
02:09:42,240 --> 02:09:45,720
Speaker 6: the economy is great, my finances are still fucking shitty.

2556
02:09:47,280 --> 02:09:50,600
Speaker 4: And you know, this is one of the old twenty

2557
02:09:50,640 --> 02:09:54,120
Speaker 4: eleven slogans that like, well don't I guess it's also

2558
02:09:54,120 --> 02:09:56,000
Speaker 4: two thousand and eight slogan that like, people need to

2559
02:09:56,000 --> 02:09:58,760
Speaker 4: fucking remember that when the bank takes your house. GDP

2560
02:09:58,920 --> 02:10:03,840
Speaker 4: goes up. The economic indicators that we have are are

2561
02:10:03,880 --> 02:10:06,560
Speaker 4: you know, they're they're bushw economic indicators right like they

2562
02:10:06,560 --> 02:10:10,480
Speaker 4: are they are. They are designed to measure how well

2563
02:10:10,560 --> 02:10:12,240
Speaker 4: capital is being extracted from you.

2564
02:10:12,760 --> 02:10:15,160
Speaker 9: Mm hmm, yep, yep, yep, yep.

2565
02:10:17,200 --> 02:10:20,560
Speaker 10: Definitely no reflection on our actual you know, day to

2566
02:10:20,640 --> 02:10:24,960
Speaker 10: day lives, you know what what our needs are. Yeah,

2567
02:10:25,040 --> 02:10:27,280
Speaker 10: and hey, some people made money off of your labor,

2568
02:10:27,400 --> 02:10:31,240
Speaker 10: so things are good unless you know you're the labor.

2569
02:10:32,040 --> 02:10:34,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, And like you know, I think, I think, and

2570
02:10:34,960 --> 02:10:37,800
Speaker 4: everything that happens a lot is like yeah, like you know,

2571
02:10:38,080 --> 02:10:40,320
Speaker 4: it is entirely possible that a bunch of people who

2572
02:10:40,320 --> 02:10:42,520
Speaker 4: are you know, making like seventy thousand dollars a year

2573
02:10:42,520 --> 02:10:43,400
Speaker 4: are fucking doing.

2574
02:10:43,240 --> 02:10:45,160
Speaker 7: Great right now, and it's like, well, bully for them,

2575
02:10:45,480 --> 02:10:46,800
Speaker 7: like we're fucking not.

2576
02:10:49,080 --> 02:10:52,840
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and speaking to you know,

2577
02:10:53,000 --> 02:10:55,360
Speaker 11: to the you know what the things you know, look

2578
02:10:55,640 --> 02:10:58,840
Speaker 11: five years out, which you know, it seems like, you know,

2579
02:10:58,920 --> 02:11:01,120
Speaker 11: things just kind of get exponentially worse.

2580
02:11:01,200 --> 02:11:04,120
Speaker 10: You know, I don't know what you know, the environment,

2581
02:11:04,160 --> 02:11:05,720
Speaker 10: you know what our climate's going to be. I don't

2582
02:11:05,720 --> 02:11:08,640
Speaker 10: know what you know, inflation or food costs, you know

2583
02:11:08,680 --> 02:11:11,840
Speaker 10: it's going to be and you know so far, you know,

2584
02:11:11,880 --> 02:11:13,800
Speaker 10: i'd need to see the you know what the Tenet

2585
02:11:13,880 --> 02:11:16,600
Speaker 10: Agreement has on that market rate adjustment. And then there's

2586
02:11:16,600 --> 02:11:21,360
Speaker 10: also the cost of living adjustment too, which at least

2587
02:11:21,560 --> 02:11:23,440
Speaker 10: what I believe is, you know it doesn't kick into

2588
02:11:23,480 --> 02:11:25,960
Speaker 10: like you've been there for five years, so I guess

2589
02:11:26,160 --> 02:11:29,160
Speaker 10: you just aren't living for those first five years. I

2590
02:11:29,200 --> 02:11:29,960
Speaker 10: don't know.

2591
02:11:30,920 --> 02:11:34,040
Speaker 6: You know that my utilities and my rent waives my

2592
02:11:34,120 --> 02:11:36,960
Speaker 6: bills for the first five years that I worked for UPS.

2593
02:11:37,360 --> 02:11:40,400
Speaker 4: Someone someone someone, So someone also like, go find the

2594
02:11:40,440 --> 02:11:43,000
Speaker 4: statistics on how many people get fired at four years

2595
02:11:43,040 --> 02:11:47,080
Speaker 4: and eleven months, Like yeah.

2596
02:11:46,480 --> 02:11:49,400
Speaker 10: And that's yeah. I mean that's also when the pension

2597
02:11:49,760 --> 02:11:53,720
Speaker 10: uh minimum investment investment time is five years. You know,

2598
02:11:53,760 --> 02:11:55,880
Speaker 10: that's also something I've thought about, Well, what happens on

2599
02:11:55,920 --> 02:11:59,240
Speaker 10: a four years and eleven months is that when you know,

2600
02:11:59,440 --> 02:12:02,640
Speaker 10: now even got a bigger target on my back, it's

2601
02:12:02,680 --> 02:12:04,120
Speaker 10: like already a thorn on their side.

2602
02:12:05,320 --> 02:12:07,480
Speaker 4: They did the thing I said they were going to do,

2603
02:12:07,520 --> 02:12:10,440
Speaker 4: where it says UPS will equip in cab a c

2604
02:12:10,600 --> 02:12:14,320
Speaker 4: in all large delivery vehicles, sprinter vans and packaged cars

2605
02:12:14,320 --> 02:12:18,160
Speaker 4: purchased after January first, oh, twenty twenty four. Fans are

2606
02:12:18,200 --> 02:12:20,680
Speaker 4: getting cars getting two fans in an induction event in

2607
02:12:20,680 --> 02:12:24,560
Speaker 4: the cargo compartment, which is good, but also not air conditioning.

2608
02:12:24,960 --> 02:12:27,680
Speaker 6: It's not air conditioning and it gets very hot in

2609
02:12:27,720 --> 02:12:31,600
Speaker 6: those trailers. And yeah, no, it's like yeah, and all

2610
02:12:31,720 --> 02:12:34,880
Speaker 6: large except you know, all things purchased after January first,

2611
02:12:34,880 --> 02:12:35,760
Speaker 6: twenty twenty four.

2612
02:12:36,080 --> 02:12:38,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's just like, you know, yeah, it's like

2613
02:12:38,720 --> 02:12:41,680
Speaker 4: they will start purchasing cars again in like twenty ninety four.

2614
02:12:42,480 --> 02:12:42,839
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2615
02:12:43,000 --> 02:12:48,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, nothing in there about retrofitting those cars.

2616
02:12:48,600 --> 02:12:50,760
Speaker 9: Well I think interesting cars.

2617
02:12:51,320 --> 02:12:54,760
Speaker 4: I think they're well, okay, I don't know. This is

2618
02:12:54,800 --> 02:12:57,440
Speaker 4: another thing, like it's it's unclear to me exactly what

2619
02:12:57,520 --> 02:13:00,320
Speaker 4: a lot of this means because we you know, like

2620
02:13:00,360 --> 02:13:03,520
Speaker 4: we we were like we we can't get the actual contract,

2621
02:13:03,880 --> 02:13:11,080
Speaker 4: which is yeah, like yeah, so this is we need

2622
02:13:11,120 --> 02:13:13,120
Speaker 4: to I guess also like prefaces like this is what

2623
02:13:13,200 --> 02:13:15,520
Speaker 4: we're not doing legal analysis of this. This is our

2624
02:13:15,560 --> 02:13:18,600
Speaker 4: speculation based on what we're reading. This is this none

2625
02:13:18,640 --> 02:13:25,640
Speaker 4: of this constanity's finding legal advice. Yeah, but yeah yeah,

2626
02:13:26,320 --> 02:13:26,680
Speaker 4: hey I.

2627
02:13:26,760 --> 02:13:27,320
Speaker 1: Just work here.

2628
02:13:28,320 --> 02:13:28,960
Speaker 9: Yeah.

2629
02:13:29,000 --> 02:13:33,240
Speaker 6: Another thing that I'm like noticing in this contract. So

2630
02:13:33,400 --> 02:13:39,120
Speaker 6: another big grievance that was had was the lack of

2631
02:13:39,160 --> 02:13:43,360
Speaker 6: full time positions and so like if you want to

2632
02:13:43,360 --> 02:13:46,240
Speaker 6: get a full time inside job, you know there is

2633
02:13:46,280 --> 02:13:49,920
Speaker 6: a seven to ten year wait list for that, right.

2634
02:13:50,520 --> 02:13:53,040
Speaker 9: So this us, this tenetive.

2635
02:13:52,720 --> 02:13:57,480
Speaker 6: Agreement stipulates that there will be a creation of seventy

2636
02:13:57,560 --> 02:14:00,480
Speaker 6: five hundred new full time teams or jobs that ups

2637
02:14:00,720 --> 02:14:05,200
Speaker 6: and the fulfillment of twenty two thousand, five hundred open positions,

2638
02:14:05,880 --> 02:14:08,760
Speaker 6: but it doesn't specify if that's going to be for

2639
02:14:08,920 --> 02:14:13,560
Speaker 6: inside work or for uh, you know, more more drivers.

2640
02:14:13,720 --> 02:14:17,040
Speaker 6: And you know, I have I have epilepsy, So I

2641
02:14:17,080 --> 02:14:21,880
Speaker 6: Am not going to be a driver. That's just doesn't

2642
02:14:21,920 --> 02:14:26,200
Speaker 6: seem ideal for me. And yeah, I would I would

2643
02:14:26,240 --> 02:14:30,080
Speaker 6: like to see some numbers on so that wait list

2644
02:14:30,320 --> 02:14:34,880
Speaker 6: is that going down, like, because that's like what I'm

2645
02:14:34,880 --> 02:14:38,280
Speaker 6: waiting for is to be able to you know, snag

2646
02:14:38,320 --> 02:14:42,720
Speaker 6: one of those full time inside positions, but I don't know.

2647
02:14:42,760 --> 02:14:44,920
Speaker 6: And like when you think about, you know, seventy five

2648
02:14:45,040 --> 02:14:48,960
Speaker 6: hundred full time positions, it's also worth to keep in

2649
02:14:49,000 --> 02:14:53,160
Speaker 6: mind that ups employees three hundred and forty thousand people.

2650
02:14:54,600 --> 02:14:58,480
Speaker 4: So it's like yeah, wait, so yeah, so that's a

2651
02:14:58,600 --> 02:14:59,160
Speaker 4: two percent.

2652
02:15:00,200 --> 02:15:04,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like two percent. And like admittedly,

2653
02:15:04,920 --> 02:15:07,640
Speaker 6: like you know, forty percent of that workforce is already

2654
02:15:07,800 --> 02:15:10,800
Speaker 6: like they're full time drivers, but so that's like sixty

2655
02:15:10,800 --> 02:15:14,080
Speaker 6: percent of that is part timers. And you know, I'm

2656
02:15:14,080 --> 02:15:18,640
Speaker 6: not going to make anyone do more math but seventy

2657
02:15:18,640 --> 02:15:21,560
Speaker 6: five hundred for sixty percent of three hundred and forty

2658
02:15:21,600 --> 02:15:22,760
Speaker 6: thousand people.

2659
02:15:23,040 --> 02:15:23,280
Speaker 5: Is.

2660
02:15:25,120 --> 02:15:28,280
Speaker 9: It's not as exciting as just seeing that number.

2661
02:15:28,240 --> 02:15:33,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, right, which is like a shook, Like.

2662
02:15:35,320 --> 02:15:38,800
Speaker 10: And this goes into something you know I've noticed, you know,

2663
02:15:38,960 --> 02:15:42,480
Speaker 10: with you know, coworkers, which is always talking about you know,

2664
02:15:43,200 --> 02:15:45,880
Speaker 10: like you know, we need more hours and that you

2665
02:15:45,880 --> 02:15:49,120
Speaker 10: know that that is true to a degree. You know,

2666
02:15:49,200 --> 02:15:52,600
Speaker 10: really though it's like, well we need more pay, you know,

2667
02:15:52,760 --> 02:15:54,920
Speaker 10: I you know, I think that's you know, would be

2668
02:15:54,920 --> 02:15:56,720
Speaker 10: a sign you know, when it can be you know,

2669
02:15:56,840 --> 02:15:59,840
Speaker 10: like a really strong union is that you know, we

2670
02:15:59,840 --> 02:16:02,880
Speaker 10: can even to say, yeah, you know what, maybe people

2671
02:16:02,920 --> 02:16:05,880
Speaker 10: shouldn't be working seventy hour weeks. Yeah no, maybe we

2672
02:16:05,880 --> 02:16:09,000
Speaker 10: should cap that at thirty with you know PT pay

2673
02:16:09,600 --> 02:16:13,040
Speaker 10: that you know pays like full time. But of course

2674
02:16:13,040 --> 02:16:14,880
Speaker 10: you know we're not there. You know, we need these

2675
02:16:14,960 --> 02:16:17,840
Speaker 10: jobs that can actually provide you know, definitely not going

2676
02:16:17,880 --> 02:16:20,160
Speaker 10: to knock that, but you know, would definitely like to

2677
02:16:20,200 --> 02:16:22,560
Speaker 10: see that overall shift kind of just you know in

2678
02:16:22,600 --> 02:16:25,640
Speaker 10: our culture of you know, we don't need to work

2679
02:16:25,840 --> 02:16:27,960
Speaker 10: more to have our needs met.

2680
02:16:28,720 --> 02:16:31,080
Speaker 4: I think it's also sort of important to understand about

2681
02:16:31,640 --> 02:16:34,520
Speaker 4: ups jobs. It's like you're fucking destroying your body. So

2682
02:16:34,600 --> 02:16:36,520
Speaker 4: especially if you're like if you're if you're if you're

2683
02:16:36,560 --> 02:16:39,360
Speaker 4: one of the people shorting packages like you are lifting,

2684
02:16:40,160 --> 02:16:43,800
Speaker 4: like you were lifting like thousands of packages a day.

2685
02:16:44,040 --> 02:16:46,720
Speaker 4: These things can weigh up to like eighty fucking pounds.

2686
02:16:47,160 --> 02:16:48,840
Speaker 9: They can weigh up to one hundred and fifty.

2687
02:16:48,800 --> 02:16:50,119
Speaker 4: One hundred fifty Jesus Christ, never.

2688
02:16:50,120 --> 02:16:53,800
Speaker 10: Mind, Okay, one fifty is the other limit. Seventy pounds

2689
02:16:53,840 --> 02:16:59,520
Speaker 10: is where you know you can do team lift. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

2690
02:16:59,560 --> 02:17:02,199
Speaker 10: I know. Talking to a feeder driver recently was talking

2691
02:17:02,200 --> 02:17:04,560
Speaker 10: about having a you know, two of those trailers hooked

2692
02:17:04,640 --> 02:17:08,039
Speaker 10: up and weighing in at something like seventeen thousand pounds

2693
02:17:08,040 --> 02:17:11,680
Speaker 10: on the scale. Jesus Obviously you know that's the cabin

2694
02:17:11,879 --> 02:17:14,879
Speaker 10: engine included, I believe, but you know, that's not my world.

2695
02:17:14,879 --> 02:17:17,320
Speaker 10: I'm kind of completely unfamiliar with that side of things.

2696
02:17:17,320 --> 02:17:20,640
Speaker 10: But still, yeah, it's like a lot of weight, you know,

2697
02:17:21,240 --> 02:17:25,879
Speaker 10: because we're carrying so many packages every day. Yeah, it's

2698
02:17:25,879 --> 02:17:27,600
Speaker 10: a lot of wear and tear on the body.

2699
02:17:28,120 --> 02:17:31,359
Speaker 6: And management is always pushing you to move faster too. Yeah,

2700
02:17:31,480 --> 02:17:37,480
Speaker 6: Like I had a u a worker who is a

2701
02:17:37,480 --> 02:17:40,680
Speaker 6: feeder driver for another hub, and she was telling me

2702
02:17:41,000 --> 02:17:45,360
Speaker 6: that a supervisor there was telling newly hired part time

2703
02:17:45,400 --> 02:17:49,320
Speaker 6: employees that it's actually safer to work faster.

2704
02:17:49,080 --> 02:17:50,119
Speaker 9: Instead of slower.

2705
02:17:51,200 --> 02:17:55,480
Speaker 6: What. Yes, Yeah, that makes no fucking sense, no fucking

2706
02:17:55,520 --> 02:17:58,080
Speaker 6: sense at all. And like one of the reasons they

2707
02:17:58,080 --> 02:18:00,440
Speaker 6: have an incentive to make us work really fast, which

2708
02:18:00,480 --> 02:18:02,959
Speaker 6: is that the full time soups get a parts per

2709
02:18:03,000 --> 02:18:08,800
Speaker 6: hour bonus, uh, depending on how fast we go. So

2710
02:18:09,400 --> 02:18:12,879
Speaker 6: you know, they will harass you into working faster even

2711
02:18:12,920 --> 02:18:15,560
Speaker 6: though you know we're moving these thousands of fucking packages.

2712
02:18:16,040 --> 02:18:19,840
Speaker 6: They'll harass us to move faster so that they get

2713
02:18:19,879 --> 02:18:24,800
Speaker 6: a bonus off of the packages that we handled and moved.

2714
02:18:25,840 --> 02:18:27,720
Speaker 10: I mean, like this last week in the you know,

2715
02:18:27,800 --> 02:18:30,160
Speaker 10: I think it was like mid nineties outside or something.

2716
02:18:30,760 --> 02:18:32,560
Speaker 10: You know, we're not getting Oh do you need water?

2717
02:18:32,600 --> 02:18:34,960
Speaker 10: Do you need to rest? It was, oh, you're not

2718
02:18:35,320 --> 02:18:38,280
Speaker 10: working fast enough. Like your packages per hours you know,

2719
02:18:38,400 --> 02:18:41,120
Speaker 10: too low. You know, it's that kind of constant you know,

2720
02:18:41,680 --> 02:18:44,920
Speaker 10: harassment or you know maybe sometimes like you know, I know,

2721
02:18:45,000 --> 02:18:47,600
Speaker 10: my supervisor is a little bit more subtle about it,

2722
02:18:47,720 --> 02:18:51,120
Speaker 10: you know, versus you know outright being like, oh, you

2723
02:18:51,240 --> 02:18:53,440
Speaker 10: need to work faster because That's the thing is in

2724
02:18:53,480 --> 02:18:56,240
Speaker 10: our contract. You know, there's no kind of productivity quota.

2725
02:18:56,640 --> 02:18:59,640
Speaker 10: You know, we work safe, we follow the methods. That's

2726
02:18:59,680 --> 02:19:02,520
Speaker 10: something I really try and you know, really focus on

2727
02:19:02,560 --> 02:19:05,320
Speaker 10: because you know, ideally, yeah, I want to you know,

2728
02:19:05,360 --> 02:19:09,080
Speaker 10: I would like to be here longer. Yeah, silly enough

2729
02:19:09,480 --> 02:19:12,680
Speaker 10: as that is for a job with terrible conditions, but

2730
02:19:13,240 --> 02:19:17,160
Speaker 10: you know, also it's a job that and that Yeah,

2731
02:19:17,160 --> 02:19:19,600
Speaker 10: that's the big thing. And it's like, I don't you know,

2732
02:19:19,640 --> 02:19:22,160
Speaker 10: what's a pinch you're going to do if you know,

2733
02:19:22,280 --> 02:19:25,080
Speaker 10: I'm you know, have some kind of you know, grave

2734
02:19:25,160 --> 02:19:31,320
Speaker 10: injury from from the job pension but still, yeah, you're

2735
02:19:31,360 --> 02:19:32,240
Speaker 10: dead with heat exhaustion.

2736
02:19:32,360 --> 02:19:33,879
Speaker 4: Like's like, well a pension doesn't pay out, Like.

2737
02:19:35,400 --> 02:19:41,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just it's just yeah, it's wild. It's wild, man.

2738
02:19:41,800 --> 02:19:44,760
Speaker 6: I am going to be really excited to see how this,

2739
02:19:45,080 --> 02:19:46,040
Speaker 6: how this smoke goes.

2740
02:19:47,160 --> 02:19:49,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's gonna be an interesting day at work.

2741
02:19:50,200 --> 02:19:55,240
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm sure that I'll have those people

2742
02:19:55,320 --> 02:19:57,280
Speaker 6: that know that I know about the union come up

2743
02:19:57,280 --> 02:19:58,920
Speaker 6: and talk to me to ask me what I think

2744
02:19:58,959 --> 02:20:02,720
Speaker 6: about it U because I'm the only person they know

2745
02:20:02,840 --> 02:20:05,240
Speaker 6: that knows anything about the union. Because as we talked

2746
02:20:05,240 --> 02:20:11,519
Speaker 6: about earlier. Union reps just are barely ever there. Yeah,

2747
02:20:11,760 --> 02:20:17,240
Speaker 6: and yeah, we'll see, we'll see. Man, that's I'm just

2748
02:20:17,280 --> 02:20:19,880
Speaker 6: now really thinking about that. Seventy five hundred full time

2749
02:20:20,000 --> 02:20:24,520
Speaker 6: jobs three percent, two or three percent, depending on the

2750
02:20:24,560 --> 02:20:25,680
Speaker 6: metric that you're looking at.

2751
02:20:26,520 --> 02:20:29,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, absolutely, I mean not enough.

2752
02:20:29,600 --> 02:20:37,400
Speaker 6: No, no, no, wild wild, And now that addis is

2753
02:20:37,400 --> 02:20:40,920
Speaker 6: a at best, a delayed opportunity for a strike to

2754
02:20:40,920 --> 02:20:45,160
Speaker 6: build those as we talked about earlier, those necessary, necessary

2755
02:20:45,240 --> 02:20:47,000
Speaker 6: muscles that need to be exercised.

2756
02:20:47,160 --> 02:20:50,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, and that's at best. You know, we might have

2757
02:20:51,080 --> 02:20:57,000
Speaker 9: we might have missed it. Yeah, yeah, well we'll see,

2758
02:20:57,080 --> 02:20:59,440
Speaker 9: we'll see.

2759
02:20:59,680 --> 02:21:02,000
Speaker 4: Yeah that that fucking sucks.

2760
02:21:03,959 --> 02:21:07,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, what a curveball to get for the podcast.

2761
02:21:10,760 --> 02:21:12,600
Speaker 4: Well, honestly, unless you have anything else you want to

2762
02:21:12,600 --> 02:21:14,959
Speaker 4: talk about. Yeah, I actually going to wrap up this

2763
02:21:15,040 --> 02:21:18,280
Speaker 4: incredibly chaotic episode that it could happen here, in which

2764
02:21:18,480 --> 02:21:22,040
Speaker 4: we discovered the chaos of a not open bargaining process

2765
02:21:22,240 --> 02:21:24,320
Speaker 4: and what that looks like life what air?

2766
02:21:25,720 --> 02:21:28,640
Speaker 9: Yeah? Yeah, exciting times.

2767
02:21:28,800 --> 02:21:31,760
Speaker 6: But yeah, I think I think I'm good. I feel

2768
02:21:31,760 --> 02:21:34,680
Speaker 6: like I hit all my notes and some that I

2769
02:21:34,720 --> 02:21:37,960
Speaker 6: wasn't even planning on hitting because we had this new information.

2770
02:21:38,160 --> 02:21:40,720
Speaker 4: So right, good lord.

2771
02:21:40,879 --> 02:21:43,480
Speaker 10: I was like, it couldn't have been like an hour earlier,

2772
02:21:43,600 --> 02:21:58,160
Speaker 10: so I could have at least oh my gosh, Well,

2773
02:21:58,200 --> 02:22:00,640
Speaker 10: you know you can join us next for the live

2774
02:22:00,680 --> 02:22:03,760
Speaker 10: analysis of the over three hundred page contract.

2775
02:22:04,480 --> 02:22:09,119
Speaker 9: That we got, like just the highlights of Oh.

2776
02:22:09,320 --> 02:22:11,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, but thank you to you both for thank you

2777
02:22:11,320 --> 02:22:14,600
Speaker 4: both for coming on. And yeah, I guess I guess

2778
02:22:14,600 --> 02:22:16,240
Speaker 4: if the strike happens, we can talk to you again

2779
02:22:16,440 --> 02:22:18,520
Speaker 4: or maybe also if it doesn't, I don't know.

2780
02:22:19,440 --> 02:22:25,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely thank you for having us on. Yeah,

2781
02:22:25,200 --> 02:22:27,240
Speaker 6: I love to stay in contact to talk about if

2782
02:22:27,240 --> 02:22:29,760
Speaker 6: we do go on strike or you know, if we don't,

2783
02:22:30,280 --> 02:22:32,520
Speaker 6: would love I would absolutely be open to a follow

2784
02:22:32,600 --> 02:22:32,959
Speaker 6: up on that.

2785
02:22:33,160 --> 02:22:35,840
Speaker 4: And yeah, okay, so where can people go if they

2786
02:22:35,879 --> 02:22:39,680
Speaker 4: want to support like the strike or also potentially the

2787
02:22:39,760 --> 02:22:42,200
Speaker 4: rake and file workers who are trying to like make

2788
02:22:42,240 --> 02:22:44,920
Speaker 4: sure it happens. Yeah, I would say.

2789
02:22:44,760 --> 02:22:51,440
Speaker 6: That a good place to follow, or like a good

2790
02:22:52,879 --> 02:22:56,520
Speaker 6: source I guess to follow would be to follow the

2791
02:22:56,840 --> 02:23:00,520
Speaker 6: Team Service for a Democratic Union. If there is going

2792
02:23:00,560 --> 02:23:04,480
Speaker 6: to be any movement that is in the union that's organized,

2793
02:23:04,520 --> 02:23:07,720
Speaker 6: it's going to be coming from them most likely, So

2794
02:23:07,800 --> 02:23:10,680
Speaker 6: they are the better version. I would say to follow

2795
02:23:10,800 --> 02:23:14,760
Speaker 6: on that front. And of course you can still follow

2796
02:23:15,440 --> 02:23:20,600
Speaker 6: the regular uh teamsters page and stuff like that to

2797
02:23:20,640 --> 02:23:25,280
Speaker 6: see what's going on. But yeah, yeah, it's gonna be weird.

2798
02:23:25,040 --> 02:23:27,200
Speaker 6: I don't know what the TDU line is going to

2799
02:23:27,520 --> 02:23:30,200
Speaker 6: is going to be on this, so it's like.

2800
02:23:30,200 --> 02:23:33,039
Speaker 10: We'll see and you know, hopefully, you know, if we

2801
02:23:33,120 --> 02:23:36,960
Speaker 10: can strike obviously, Yeah, come out to yeah, support your

2802
02:23:37,000 --> 02:23:40,600
Speaker 10: fellow workers, and you too will also be able to coordinate,

2803
02:23:40,800 --> 02:23:46,000
Speaker 10: you know with rank and file on union reps. You

2804
02:23:46,040 --> 02:23:47,840
Speaker 10: know what kind of needs there might be out on

2805
02:23:47,840 --> 02:23:49,119
Speaker 10: the picket line.

2806
02:23:49,360 --> 02:23:49,600
Speaker 9: Yep.

2807
02:23:50,200 --> 02:23:52,959
Speaker 10: Yeah, also, and yeah, thank you very much for for

2808
02:23:53,080 --> 02:23:53,760
Speaker 10: having us.

2809
02:23:54,320 --> 02:23:56,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you for coming on. Yeah, this has been

2810
02:23:56,840 --> 02:24:01,480
Speaker 4: nicking happen here, go on strike. Don't let your leadership

2811
02:24:01,520 --> 02:24:04,440
Speaker 4: tell you not to go and strike. Simply do the

2812
02:24:04,600 --> 02:24:07,280
Speaker 4: thing and organize so you could do it again.

2813
02:24:23,120 --> 02:24:27,840
Speaker 1: Ah, it could happen here. A podcast that is right

2814
02:24:27,879 --> 02:24:31,600
Speaker 1: now happening in your ear. It could happen a year.

2815
02:24:31,680 --> 02:24:34,800
Speaker 1: That's what we should call it. Garrison. We're changing the name.

2816
02:24:35,800 --> 02:24:41,640
Speaker 1: We're rebranding our valuable valuable titles, uh completely moving moving

2817
02:24:41,760 --> 02:24:45,280
Speaker 1: overnight to a whole new thing based on a whim you.

2818
02:24:45,240 --> 02:24:47,240
Speaker 3: Know, gam bitzer.

2819
02:24:49,760 --> 02:24:52,440
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, this is a this has been a fun week.

2820
02:24:52,480 --> 02:24:54,560
Speaker 1: We're all laughing a little bit at Elon Musk. But

2821
02:24:54,600 --> 02:24:57,600
Speaker 1: we have something serious to talk about today, and that

2822
02:24:57,920 --> 02:25:03,480
Speaker 1: is everybody's favorite fascist governor, Ron DeSantis. Garrison. You and

2823
02:25:03,520 --> 02:25:06,640
Speaker 1: I spent just way too much time last week talking

2824
02:25:06,680 --> 02:25:10,480
Speaker 1: about meetball Ron, and now now we're back. Now we're

2825
02:25:10,480 --> 02:25:14,080
Speaker 1: back because he's he keeps meatballing meetball. Ron is is

2826
02:25:14,120 --> 02:25:14,959
Speaker 1: ballin and meeting.

2827
02:25:16,120 --> 02:25:19,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we wrapped up like a like a two

2828
02:25:19,480 --> 02:25:25,320
Speaker 3: part episode on Ron Desandres's use of Fashi rave asthetics,

2829
02:25:25,720 --> 02:25:29,120
Speaker 3: and then like two days later, the funniest thing happened,

2830
02:25:31,160 --> 02:25:35,320
Speaker 3: uh where he just decided to basically basically post Son

2831
02:25:35,400 --> 02:25:38,240
Speaker 3: and Rounds. So we're gonna we're gonna get to that.

2832
02:25:39,120 --> 02:25:41,119
Speaker 3: But first there's a whole bunch of other information that's

2833
02:25:41,160 --> 02:25:44,560
Speaker 3: come out these these past like really three days that

2834
02:25:44,640 --> 02:25:47,120
Speaker 3: have kind of that are actually giving more context to

2835
02:25:47,240 --> 02:25:50,920
Speaker 3: what's going on at the DeSantis campaign because stuff doesn't

2836
02:25:50,920 --> 02:25:52,840
Speaker 3: look too good. Actually, you know, he he kind of

2837
02:25:52,879 --> 02:25:57,360
Speaker 3: looks like he's losing everything as he slowly watches it

2838
02:25:57,400 --> 02:26:02,280
Speaker 3: all crumble. So let's see, let's start by talking about

2839
02:26:02,280 --> 02:26:05,760
Speaker 3: everyone's favorite topic campaign finances. I know this is what

2840
02:26:06,120 --> 02:26:07,800
Speaker 3: everyone tunes in to listen to.

2841
02:26:08,400 --> 02:26:10,519
Speaker 1: Yes, we love campaign finances.

2842
02:26:10,840 --> 02:26:14,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, so last week the public finally got a glimpse

2843
02:26:14,320 --> 02:26:19,000
Speaker 3: at DeSantis's campaign finances. The financial disclosures showed that DeSantis

2844
02:26:19,040 --> 02:26:22,959
Speaker 3: had about twice as much staff as Donald Trump and

2845
02:26:23,640 --> 02:26:24,560
Speaker 3: as of last week.

2846
02:26:24,680 --> 02:26:27,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, Morrison, you just said that, and I imagine in

2847
02:26:27,560 --> 02:26:29,320
Speaker 1: my head for a second that you were referring to

2848
02:26:29,360 --> 02:26:32,360
Speaker 1: the amount of staff infections he's had versus Donald Trump.

2849
02:26:32,440 --> 02:26:35,400
Speaker 3: That's not true, though, Trump's definitely had more staff.

2850
02:26:35,640 --> 02:26:38,040
Speaker 1: There's almost no way, yeah, that Trump is not leading

2851
02:26:38,080 --> 02:26:41,560
Speaker 1: in the staff infections category. Please, I'm sorry to itterrrupt.

2852
02:26:42,800 --> 02:26:47,119
Speaker 3: But as of last week, the Florida governor had already

2853
02:26:47,200 --> 02:26:51,840
Speaker 3: spent about forty percent of the twenty million dollars fundraised

2854
02:26:51,879 --> 02:26:56,400
Speaker 3: from April to June of twenty twenty three, So the

2855
02:26:56,440 --> 02:27:00,280
Speaker 3: campaign's suspending rate was averaging more than two hundred hundred

2856
02:27:00,320 --> 02:27:03,560
Speaker 3: and twelve thousand dollars per day, which is an astronomical

2857
02:27:03,640 --> 02:27:07,480
Speaker 3: cost for a campaign for someone like running for president.

2858
02:27:07,560 --> 02:27:08,840
Speaker 3: Basically for the first.

2859
02:27:08,680 --> 02:27:13,200
Speaker 1: Time this far out too from the season proper hit.

2860
02:27:13,360 --> 02:27:18,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely absurd. The inflated number of staff heavy

2861
02:27:18,240 --> 02:27:21,160
Speaker 3: use of private jets and luxury event venues has his

2862
02:27:21,280 --> 02:27:25,840
Speaker 3: campaign essentially just burning through cash and with very little

2863
02:27:25,879 --> 02:27:28,279
Speaker 3: seeming to come of it in terms of positive poll numbers.

2864
02:27:28,879 --> 02:27:30,840
Speaker 3: So another thing that they've.

2865
02:27:30,640 --> 02:27:33,520
Speaker 1: Gained maybe a point or so on Trump over the

2866
02:27:33,600 --> 02:27:34,439
Speaker 1: last year.

2867
02:27:34,800 --> 02:27:39,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, after spending two hundred thousand dollars per day for

2868
02:27:39,280 --> 02:27:42,720
Speaker 3: the past like four months. Another thing that these financial

2869
02:27:42,720 --> 02:27:48,280
Speaker 3: disclosures exposed is DeSantis's heavy dependence on high contributors. So

2870
02:27:49,080 --> 02:27:53,080
Speaker 3: just just about fifteen percent of fundraising contributions came from

2871
02:27:53,080 --> 02:27:56,200
Speaker 3: donors who gave less than two hundred dollars, and the vast,

2872
02:27:56,320 --> 02:28:00,200
Speaker 3: vast majority of DeSantis's money has come from donors who

2873
02:28:00,200 --> 02:28:03,480
Speaker 3: gave the legal maximum of three three hundred dollars in

2874
02:28:03,520 --> 02:28:06,240
Speaker 3: the primary, which also means that those who gave that

2875
02:28:06,560 --> 02:28:09,640
Speaker 3: can cannot contribute any more money either. So he's running

2876
02:28:09,680 --> 02:28:12,520
Speaker 3: out of people that are actually able to fund his operation.

2877
02:28:13,200 --> 02:28:16,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's worth noting he does have a super pack.

2878
02:28:16,160 --> 02:28:18,039
Speaker 1: You are not limited in how much you can donate

2879
02:28:18,080 --> 02:28:21,760
Speaker 1: to a super pack, but super packs cannot spend money

2880
02:28:21,840 --> 02:28:25,360
Speaker 1: on the same things as general campaign funds, right, Like,

2881
02:28:25,680 --> 02:28:27,959
Speaker 1: there are limitations in what you can use that on.

2882
02:28:28,000 --> 02:28:30,920
Speaker 1: So this is actually a logistical problem for him that

2883
02:28:31,000 --> 02:28:32,920
Speaker 1: he has maxed out his donor base.

2884
02:28:33,560 --> 02:28:37,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and The New York Times has reported that future

2885
02:28:37,720 --> 02:28:41,800
Speaker 3: like large prospective donors have been spooked by DeSantis' sliding

2886
02:28:41,800 --> 02:28:44,800
Speaker 3: poll numbers and they may be less willing to invest

2887
02:28:44,920 --> 02:28:49,000
Speaker 3: in what's looking like a losing battle. So to combat

2888
02:28:49,080 --> 02:28:53,520
Speaker 3: these swelling campaign expenses, including two hundred and seventy nine

2889
02:28:53,560 --> 02:28:58,080
Speaker 3: thousand dollars at the four seasons in Miami, DeSantis's Tallahassee

2890
02:28:58,080 --> 02:29:02,240
Speaker 3: based campaign has began undercoing massive cuts to campaign staff

2891
02:29:02,320 --> 02:29:06,760
Speaker 3: this past week. Previously, DeSantis had upwards of ninety people

2892
02:29:06,800 --> 02:29:10,480
Speaker 3: on payroll, but just this month they've eliminated thirty eight

2893
02:29:10,640 --> 02:29:13,880
Speaker 3: jobs in a variety of departments, cutting more than one

2894
02:29:14,080 --> 02:29:18,520
Speaker 3: third of his payroll. DeSantis' cutbacks are nearly equal to

2895
02:29:18,600 --> 02:29:22,800
Speaker 3: the size of Trump's entire twenty twenty four campaign staff. Dessentus'

2896
02:29:22,920 --> 02:29:26,440
Speaker 3: campaign manager Grenera Pek said in a statement I believe

2897
02:29:26,920 --> 02:29:31,120
Speaker 3: late last week quote following a top to bottom review

2898
02:29:31,160 --> 02:29:35,000
Speaker 3: of our organization, we've taken additional aggressive steps to streamline

2899
02:29:35,040 --> 02:29:38,080
Speaker 3: operations and put Ron DeSantis in the strongest position to

2900
02:29:38,160 --> 02:29:41,959
Speaker 3: win this primary and defeat Joe Biden. So that was

2901
02:29:42,240 --> 02:29:45,400
Speaker 3: their little statement accompanying the news of firing almost forty

2902
02:29:45,440 --> 02:29:48,879
Speaker 3: people from their campaign. According to The New York Times,

2903
02:29:48,920 --> 02:29:53,400
Speaker 3: advertisers are quote promising to reorient the DeSantis candidacy as

2904
02:29:53,480 --> 02:29:57,560
Speaker 3: a quote unquote insurgent run and remake it into a

2905
02:29:57,640 --> 02:30:02,760
Speaker 3: quote unquote leaner, meaner operation. So this is the new

2906
02:30:02,760 --> 02:30:05,560
Speaker 3: strategy that they're trying to do, is instead of having

2907
02:30:05,680 --> 02:30:09,960
Speaker 3: ninety people on staff in a largely ineffectual strategy, have

2908
02:30:10,160 --> 02:30:12,720
Speaker 3: a more insurgent run with a smaller number of people.

2909
02:30:14,000 --> 02:30:16,520
Speaker 3: But in addition to the dozens of staff members who've

2910
02:30:16,520 --> 02:30:19,880
Speaker 3: been let go this July, to senior advisors have also

2911
02:30:19,959 --> 02:30:24,320
Speaker 3: departed this month to work for an outside pro DeSantis nonprofit.

2912
02:30:24,840 --> 02:30:28,039
Speaker 3: One of these senior advisors, who was supposed to oversee

2913
02:30:28,080 --> 02:30:32,680
Speaker 3: the campaign's television messaging, voluntarily left quote as the reality

2914
02:30:33,040 --> 02:30:37,199
Speaker 3: of a disappearing advertising budget set in. So these these

2915
02:30:37,240 --> 02:30:42,440
Speaker 3: two more more kind of seasoned Republican advisors saw what

2916
02:30:42,480 --> 02:30:45,560
Speaker 3: was happening in the campaign, and they're still pro DeSantis,

2917
02:30:45,600 --> 02:30:48,520
Speaker 3: but they believe they can be more effective by working

2918
02:30:48,560 --> 02:30:53,119
Speaker 3: from outside of the actual campaign. That's so funny, which

2919
02:30:53,160 --> 02:30:57,160
Speaker 3: is not a great sign for DeSantis's internal internal team

2920
02:30:57,200 --> 02:31:00,480
Speaker 3: here if you have people like who's still like you,

2921
02:31:00,560 --> 02:31:02,920
Speaker 3: but they just can't work for you because you're doing such.

2922
02:31:02,800 --> 02:31:03,440
Speaker 4: A bad job.

2923
02:31:05,480 --> 02:31:08,400
Speaker 3: Uh so decidus. His team is now telegraphing a plan

2924
02:31:08,440 --> 02:31:11,880
Speaker 3: to engage with mainstream media that in the way that

2925
02:31:11,920 --> 02:31:15,640
Speaker 3: they have not previously done because they've he's so far

2926
02:31:15,800 --> 02:31:18,439
Speaker 3: kind of scornfully avoided it, as we've talked about previously.

2927
02:31:19,280 --> 02:31:23,320
Speaker 3: And they're calling this new strategy the DeSantis is Everywhere approach,

2928
02:31:23,640 --> 02:31:27,480
Speaker 3: which is a good Jesus Christ bad name for strategy.

2929
02:31:28,800 --> 02:31:33,120
Speaker 1: The part of the problem, Garrison, I don't know how to, like,

2930
02:31:33,160 --> 02:31:35,320
Speaker 1: I can't like prove this the way that we prove,

2931
02:31:35,400 --> 02:31:37,840
Speaker 1: you know, when we're when we're tracing back the ideological

2932
02:31:37,920 --> 02:31:40,039
Speaker 1: roots of like a lot of our modern fascists. But

2933
02:31:41,200 --> 02:31:43,440
Speaker 1: what I what I believe in my heart is that

2934
02:31:43,720 --> 02:31:46,879
Speaker 1: so many of these very young people on the extreme

2935
02:31:46,959 --> 02:31:50,959
Speaker 1: right who are who are driving this campaign like just

2936
02:31:51,160 --> 02:31:54,400
Speaker 1: want to be villains from a bad late nineties early

2937
02:31:54,440 --> 02:31:56,960
Speaker 1: two thousands movie. They want to be they want to

2938
02:31:57,000 --> 02:32:00,000
Speaker 1: be the bad guy in like the fucking super villain

2939
02:32:00,280 --> 02:32:03,640
Speaker 1: hero movie. Right, Like that's you don't you don't say

2940
02:32:03,640 --> 02:32:05,960
Speaker 1: that about a guy who's good like this. You wouldn't

2941
02:32:06,080 --> 02:32:07,880
Speaker 1: like the Biden campaign. If they came to Joe and

2942
02:32:07,879 --> 02:32:10,120
Speaker 1: we're like, we want to do a Biden is everywhere thing,

2943
02:32:10,200 --> 02:32:12,400
Speaker 1: he'd be like, now that sounds kind of creepy. Guys

2944
02:32:12,440 --> 02:32:13,880
Speaker 1: like I already got a little bit of a problem

2945
02:32:13,920 --> 02:32:15,840
Speaker 1: with that, what with a hair sniff, and I don't

2946
02:32:15,840 --> 02:32:18,520
Speaker 1: really want to really want to jump on that train.

2947
02:32:18,840 --> 02:32:20,920
Speaker 3: You know, Like it definitely has the vibes of like

2948
02:32:21,040 --> 02:32:24,120
Speaker 3: zoomers who grew up watching like late nineties animated and

2949
02:32:24,160 --> 02:32:26,600
Speaker 3: superhero cartoons who are trying to like it.

2950
02:32:26,680 --> 02:32:28,160
Speaker 4: Yes, we're trying.

2951
02:32:27,959 --> 02:32:32,120
Speaker 3: To emulate that for some reason. There is one one

2952
02:32:32,200 --> 02:32:34,680
Speaker 3: really funny quote from The Times that that I will

2953
02:32:34,720 --> 02:32:39,000
Speaker 3: read because because it quotes like internal sources that that

2954
02:32:39,000 --> 02:32:42,360
Speaker 3: I don't have access to. But anyway, quote one person

2955
02:32:42,480 --> 02:32:46,119
Speaker 3: close to mister DeSantis, who requested anonymity to speak candidly

2956
02:32:46,160 --> 02:32:49,200
Speaker 3: about a candidate whom the person still supports, said the

2957
02:32:49,200 --> 02:32:53,000
Speaker 3: governor had experienced quote unquote a challenging learning curve that

2958
02:32:53,040 --> 02:32:55,920
Speaker 3: has left him quote unquote a little bit jarred.

2959
02:32:58,040 --> 02:33:01,800
Speaker 1: So does sound like a six year old who's like

2960
02:33:02,320 --> 02:33:05,360
Speaker 1: not quite progressing fast enough. In the reading where they're

2961
02:33:05,360 --> 02:33:07,440
Speaker 1: like maybe we need to try teaching him another way,

2962
02:33:07,840 --> 02:33:10,199
Speaker 1: Like we'll get out the different colored books.

2963
02:33:10,080 --> 02:33:15,200
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, so's he seems to have a rough adjustment

2964
02:33:15,240 --> 02:33:18,920
Speaker 3: period to campaigning in just more than one state and

2965
02:33:18,959 --> 02:33:23,160
Speaker 3: having an actual like opponent to go up against. Also

2966
02:33:23,200 --> 02:33:25,520
Speaker 3: like an opponent who's like actually a good who's like

2967
02:33:25,720 --> 02:33:30,560
Speaker 3: good at being like a politician. Yeah, so yeah, a

2968
02:33:30,680 --> 02:33:31,760
Speaker 3: challenging learning curve.

2969
02:33:31,800 --> 02:33:33,720
Speaker 4: Indeed, I might I.

2970
02:33:33,720 --> 02:33:37,240
Speaker 1: Might specify I think actually DeSantis is a lot better

2971
02:33:37,280 --> 02:33:41,240
Speaker 1: as being a politician than Donald Trump. But that's not

2972
02:33:41,360 --> 02:33:42,480
Speaker 1: what the competition is.

2973
02:33:42,760 --> 02:33:47,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, Destus is better at being like an effective like governor.

2974
02:33:47,760 --> 02:33:49,360
Speaker 5: H He's better.

2975
02:33:49,520 --> 02:33:53,320
Speaker 1: He's better at the machinery of politics, yes, whereas Trump

2976
02:33:54,080 --> 02:33:57,599
Speaker 1: is better at holding power within the GOP.

2977
02:33:57,720 --> 02:33:59,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, and being like a showman.

2978
02:33:59,680 --> 02:34:01,320
Speaker 1: Yea, we will.

2979
02:34:01,320 --> 02:34:04,560
Speaker 3: We will talk more about some uh some actually relatively

2980
02:34:04,600 --> 02:34:06,800
Speaker 3: breaking news regarding the de Santas campaign.

2981
02:34:07,200 --> 02:34:09,959
Speaker 1: Shortly for this, I just saw this before we got.

2982
02:34:09,800 --> 02:34:14,680
Speaker 3: On short shortly after this at break. Okay, we are

2983
02:34:14,720 --> 02:34:17,160
Speaker 3: we are back. So a lot has happened the past

2984
02:34:17,240 --> 02:34:20,040
Speaker 3: two days, A lot has happened the past two hours actually,

2985
02:34:21,160 --> 02:34:23,160
Speaker 3: but we're we're gonna have to work our way there.

2986
02:34:24,400 --> 02:34:29,280
Speaker 3: The first bit of news that was kind of both

2987
02:34:29,800 --> 02:34:35,360
Speaker 3: It was both confirming my suspicions and in very a

2988
02:34:35,440 --> 02:34:37,280
Speaker 3: very interesting piece of news in the first place, is

2989
02:34:37,320 --> 02:34:41,240
Speaker 3: that that fast Wave inspired kind of homophobic Pride Month

2990
02:34:41,320 --> 02:34:45,240
Speaker 3: video that we talked about in our last Dysantis fash

2991
02:34:45,280 --> 02:34:50,280
Speaker 3: Wave episode. It turns out to be slightly more self

2992
02:34:50,320 --> 02:34:53,800
Speaker 3: inflicted than what than what at least I said in

2993
02:34:53,840 --> 02:34:55,720
Speaker 3: the episode, because I didn't want to make claims that

2994
02:34:55,720 --> 02:34:59,520
Speaker 3: I couldn't back up. Because we have we have some

2995
02:34:59,680 --> 02:35:03,080
Speaker 3: new new information regarding this video. I'm gonna I'm going

2996
02:35:03,160 --> 02:35:07,280
Speaker 3: to quote from this this article in the Times quote

2997
02:35:07,520 --> 02:35:11,800
Speaker 3: a Dissanta's campaign aid had originally produced the video internally,

2998
02:35:12,240 --> 02:35:14,920
Speaker 3: passing it off to an outside supporter to post it

2999
02:35:15,000 --> 02:35:18,560
Speaker 3: first and making it appear as if it was generated independently.

3000
02:35:18,800 --> 02:35:22,600
Speaker 3: According to a person with knowledge of the incident, so

3001
02:35:23,080 --> 02:35:25,879
Speaker 3: this video turned out to be actually be made in house.

3002
02:35:26,040 --> 02:35:28,600
Speaker 3: This actually was made by someone who was working for

3003
02:35:28,920 --> 02:35:34,400
Speaker 3: Rondasantis as as we speculated it initially, but we couldn't

3004
02:35:34,400 --> 02:35:36,360
Speaker 3: really like say for sure because it was it was

3005
02:35:36,400 --> 02:35:39,560
Speaker 3: posted first on a third party account.

3006
02:35:39,400 --> 02:35:41,879
Speaker 1: Specifically the guy who was the one who shared it

3007
02:35:41,920 --> 02:35:42,920
Speaker 1: as the dude who made it.

3008
02:35:43,560 --> 02:35:45,520
Speaker 3: No, that is that is for this next video we're

3009
02:35:45,520 --> 02:35:49,800
Speaker 3: going to talk about. Yeah, the the homophobic one was

3010
02:35:49,800 --> 02:35:53,119
Speaker 3: was shared by this this this proto Santas account called

3011
02:35:53,160 --> 02:35:57,080
Speaker 3: Proud Elephant, who had a corresponding telegram channel. This was

3012
02:35:57,120 --> 02:36:00,720
Speaker 3: the guy who posted the first homophobic meme one. But yeah,

3013
02:36:00,760 --> 02:36:03,680
Speaker 3: so we found out Sunday night that it was actually

3014
02:36:03,959 --> 02:36:06,640
Speaker 3: made by someone at the Dasantas campaign, which kind of

3015
02:36:08,600 --> 02:36:14,039
Speaker 3: justified a lot of our suspicions about DeSantis employing staff

3016
02:36:14,040 --> 02:36:16,360
Speaker 3: of zoomers who don't actually understand how to win a

3017
02:36:16,360 --> 02:36:19,720
Speaker 3: political election and are more interested in just creating fascist memes,

3018
02:36:21,320 --> 02:36:23,680
Speaker 3: which is seems to be not a very effective strategy

3019
02:36:23,720 --> 02:36:29,400
Speaker 3: for DeSantis so far. So again, just the day that

3020
02:36:29,480 --> 02:36:32,360
Speaker 3: this news broke that that the video was actually made

3021
02:36:32,400 --> 02:36:35,680
Speaker 3: in a house, another fash wave of inspired video, but

3022
02:36:35,800 --> 02:36:40,080
Speaker 3: with much much more overt Nazi imagery, was shared online

3023
02:36:40,160 --> 02:36:44,960
Speaker 3: by a Dysantis campaign staffer. I'm Robert. Have you seen

3024
02:36:44,959 --> 02:36:45,360
Speaker 3: this video?

3025
02:36:46,360 --> 02:36:49,119
Speaker 1: Yes? Okay, so I'm the Sun and Rad video.

3026
02:36:49,400 --> 02:36:51,800
Speaker 3: Yes, so we don't. We don't have to watch it here,

3027
02:36:51,840 --> 02:36:55,200
Speaker 3: but I will. I will give a description of it

3028
02:36:55,280 --> 02:36:57,800
Speaker 3: for for the people listening, because also we should probably

3029
02:36:57,800 --> 02:37:00,360
Speaker 3: shouldn't be sharing these things like everywhere on on like

3030
02:37:00,400 --> 02:37:02,520
Speaker 3: Twitter and stuff anyway, Like it's not it's not a

3031
02:37:02,520 --> 02:37:04,920
Speaker 3: great idea.

3032
02:37:03,080 --> 02:37:03,160
Speaker 6: But.

3033
02:37:04,959 --> 02:37:07,360
Speaker 1: It's not going to make you happier help you in

3034
02:37:07,400 --> 02:37:11,360
Speaker 1: any way. To see this, it's just like it's surprising.

3035
02:37:11,560 --> 02:37:13,840
Speaker 1: I will say that I was surprised to see how

3036
02:37:13,879 --> 02:37:17,879
Speaker 1: fascy it was, to see how like explicitly accelerationist mash

3037
02:37:17,879 --> 02:37:21,120
Speaker 1: shooter fascy it was. Yes, this is like christ Church

3038
02:37:21,240 --> 02:37:21,840
Speaker 1: kind of Yes.

3039
02:37:22,640 --> 02:37:24,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're not going to share it, but it

3040
02:37:25,280 --> 02:37:27,440
Speaker 3: is useful to know what's in it. So I did

3041
02:37:28,040 --> 02:37:30,720
Speaker 3: write a pretty in depth description of this video here.

3042
02:37:30,800 --> 02:37:33,920
Speaker 3: So this video was posted on Sunday, July twenty third.

3043
02:37:34,040 --> 02:37:38,199
Speaker 3: It's about seventy seconds long. It plays over a Meg

3044
02:37:38,360 --> 02:37:42,280
Speaker 3: Myers cover of the song Running Up the Hill, which was.

3045
02:37:42,240 --> 02:37:44,240
Speaker 1: Made you know recent Wait, isn't that the one that

3046
02:37:44,320 --> 02:37:47,320
Speaker 1: was the one that the new season of Stranger Things

3047
02:37:47,320 --> 02:37:50,000
Speaker 1: a while back, like it brought back to the main.

3048
02:37:50,080 --> 02:37:53,040
Speaker 3: Possibly it's it is It is a Kate Bush original.

3049
02:37:53,320 --> 02:37:55,920
Speaker 3: This one is is a more like electronic cover of

3050
02:37:55,959 --> 02:37:58,640
Speaker 3: the song. Yes, it's talking about like you know, like

3051
02:37:58,680 --> 02:38:03,039
Speaker 3: a like a trying to like ask God to help

3052
02:38:03,080 --> 02:38:05,760
Speaker 3: you with certain things. Blah bla blah blah blah blah blah. Anyway,

3053
02:38:06,320 --> 02:38:09,600
Speaker 3: it starts with the doomer wojack sitting at a computer

3054
02:38:09,720 --> 02:38:13,440
Speaker 3: looking at headlines about the ineffectiveness of Trump's border wall,

3055
02:38:13,640 --> 02:38:19,240
Speaker 3: unfulfilled anti immigration policies, and Trump's pro COVID vaccine statements.

3056
02:38:19,280 --> 02:38:22,280
Speaker 3: So I guess we should probably talk about what a

3057
02:38:22,320 --> 02:38:25,600
Speaker 3: wojack is in case someone is unfamiliar. If you've ever

3058
02:38:25,640 --> 02:38:27,680
Speaker 3: spent any amount of time on the Internet, you've probably

3059
02:38:27,720 --> 02:38:31,720
Speaker 3: seen memes with kind of crudely drawn like human faces

3060
02:38:31,760 --> 02:38:36,199
Speaker 3: and heads. These are called wojack memes. They're very popular

3061
02:38:36,959 --> 02:38:40,760
Speaker 3: in like political spheres. They kind of kind of rose

3062
02:38:40,800 --> 02:38:43,560
Speaker 3: to prominence on four Chat and spread spread out from there.

3063
02:38:43,959 --> 02:38:47,720
Speaker 3: Everyone kind of uses them. Nowadays they're pretty common, but

3064
02:38:48,280 --> 02:38:51,480
Speaker 3: there's a few specific like wojack characters, like the chad

3065
02:38:51,640 --> 02:38:54,200
Speaker 3: is one. One of the more popular ones is the

3066
02:38:54,400 --> 02:38:59,760
Speaker 3: doomer wojack, which is someone who has taken the black pill,

3067
02:38:59,800 --> 02:39:02,840
Speaker 3: so to speak. They've they've they've looked at modern society

3068
02:39:03,320 --> 02:39:06,200
Speaker 3: and have decided that it's not worth engaging in. Now

3069
02:39:06,240 --> 02:39:08,520
Speaker 3: there's this. There's doomers on the right, there's dumers on

3070
02:39:08,600 --> 02:39:11,640
Speaker 3: the left. There's doomers who look at like climate change

3071
02:39:11,720 --> 02:39:15,680
Speaker 3: and the acceleration of like of of of capitalism and

3072
02:39:15,760 --> 02:39:18,520
Speaker 3: just decide, hey, this is this is too far gone.

3073
02:39:18,560 --> 02:39:20,240
Speaker 3: So they become a doomer, and they're on the left.

3074
02:39:20,240 --> 02:39:22,880
Speaker 3: There's also doomers on the right who are like looking

3075
02:39:22,920 --> 02:39:26,320
Speaker 3: at gay marriage and the acceptance of trans people, being like, oh,

3076
02:39:26,400 --> 02:39:30,200
Speaker 3: this is so socially degenerate. It's the society is too

3077
02:39:30,200 --> 02:39:33,080
Speaker 3: far gone, and then they become a doomer. But they're

3078
02:39:33,080 --> 02:39:35,080
Speaker 3: on the right. So it's it's it happens on. It

3079
02:39:35,120 --> 02:39:39,160
Speaker 3: happens on both sides, and both both sides use doomer memes.

3080
02:39:39,640 --> 02:39:42,240
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, this one is because we're talking about it

3081
02:39:42,280 --> 02:39:44,520
Speaker 3: in this context of fash wave. This is obviously a

3082
02:39:44,560 --> 02:39:48,320
Speaker 3: fascist doomer meme. But that's that's kind of what I

3083
02:39:48,360 --> 02:39:51,080
Speaker 3: mean when I say there's there's a doomer wojack sitting

3084
02:39:51,200 --> 02:39:53,080
Speaker 3: sitting at a computer. It's like it's like a guy

3085
02:39:53,080 --> 02:39:55,640
Speaker 3: with a beanie, like a scruffy beard. He looks like

3086
02:39:55,760 --> 02:39:59,760
Speaker 3: very depressed and tired, that sort of thing. So as

3087
02:40:00,040 --> 02:40:05,000
Speaker 3: as these kind of headlines about Trump's not conservative enoughness

3088
02:40:05,040 --> 02:40:08,160
Speaker 3: are flashing on this computer, the dumer Rojack is looking

3089
02:40:08,160 --> 02:40:12,800
Speaker 3: increasingly disillusioned and apathetic. Then there's the clip of Trump

3090
02:40:12,840 --> 02:40:16,240
Speaker 3: holding up a Pride flag that plays right before we

3091
02:40:16,280 --> 02:40:19,320
Speaker 3: see Trump signing the First Step Act, the twenty eighteen

3092
02:40:19,360 --> 02:40:23,959
Speaker 3: Criminal Justice Reform Bill. Then headlines flash about violent criminals

3093
02:40:24,000 --> 02:40:27,640
Speaker 3: being released into the streets, that sort of thing. So

3094
02:40:27,920 --> 02:40:30,520
Speaker 3: the dumer BoJack is looking at all these things about Trump,

3095
02:40:30,720 --> 02:40:34,640
Speaker 3: looking more and more depressed, when suddenly a doorway appears

3096
02:40:34,760 --> 02:40:38,840
Speaker 3: with an almost angelic light pouring in from behind, and

3097
02:40:38,879 --> 02:40:41,800
Speaker 3: as the door opens, we see a silhouette of Ron DeSantis.

3098
02:40:42,440 --> 02:40:45,680
Speaker 3: More short clips of Ron play, and now the wojack

3099
02:40:45,760 --> 02:40:49,640
Speaker 3: is looking happy, almost like exuberant, seemingly kind of random.

3100
02:40:49,640 --> 02:40:54,360
Speaker 3: Images of outer space, volcanoes, rocket launches, surfing and the

3101
02:40:54,400 --> 02:40:59,160
Speaker 3: beach flash quickly on screen with with like glitchy silhouettes

3102
02:40:59,200 --> 02:41:03,680
Speaker 3: of Ronda Santis looming above coastal ocean side cities that

3103
02:41:03,720 --> 02:41:07,240
Speaker 3: are lit up by a sunset. A don't tread on

3104
02:41:07,280 --> 02:41:11,320
Speaker 3: Florida Alligator flag spins onto screen like it's a fucking

3105
02:41:11,400 --> 02:41:16,840
Speaker 3: like MS paint like edit, and then the the video

3106
02:41:16,879 --> 02:41:20,400
Speaker 3: flashes more clips of DeSantis wearing sunglasses standing in front

3107
02:41:20,400 --> 02:41:25,200
Speaker 3: of American flags as the sunset. Happy Woejack fades in.

3108
02:41:25,720 --> 02:41:29,680
Speaker 3: So this is another wo shack meme of somebody almost

3109
02:41:29,680 --> 02:41:33,760
Speaker 3: like tearied eyed with like contentment, staring into the horizon

3110
02:41:33,800 --> 02:41:37,360
Speaker 3: as like a sunset is behind their head. It kind

3111
02:41:37,400 --> 02:41:39,920
Speaker 3: of it kind of reminds me of like the that

3112
02:41:40,000 --> 02:41:43,480
Speaker 3: guy who who stole that plane in Seattle.

3113
02:41:43,440 --> 02:41:45,439
Speaker 2: And yeah, crash it.

3114
02:41:46,000 --> 02:41:48,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, very sad story if you're not aware of it.

3115
02:41:48,680 --> 02:41:50,920
Speaker 1: A man hijacked I believe it was an Alaska Airs

3116
02:41:50,959 --> 02:41:53,080
Speaker 1: flight a couple of years back. It was empty, like

3117
02:41:53,160 --> 02:41:56,000
Speaker 1: he he worked at the airport. He just took the

3118
02:41:56,040 --> 02:41:58,520
Speaker 1: plane and he got up into the sky and then

3119
02:41:59,280 --> 02:42:00,640
Speaker 1: like he was just kind kind of a dude who

3120
02:42:00,720 --> 02:42:03,960
Speaker 1: was sort of suicidal. There's very sad audio of him

3121
02:42:04,000 --> 02:42:07,480
Speaker 1: talking too, because he gets on with air traffic control

3122
02:42:07,600 --> 02:42:10,000
Speaker 1: and he makes sure that he's not going to hurt

3123
02:42:10,040 --> 02:42:12,840
Speaker 1: anyone else, and like then the plane goes down, you know,

3124
02:42:12,879 --> 02:42:15,640
Speaker 1: he goes down in it, and it's it's very bleak.

3125
02:42:15,680 --> 02:42:17,120
Speaker 1: He was not a man who wanted to hurt anybody.

3126
02:42:17,160 --> 02:42:20,520
Speaker 1: It's just this kind of like exist. I found it

3127
02:42:20,640 --> 02:42:23,120
Speaker 1: set to a lot of vapor wave tracks. Actually, like

3128
02:42:23,200 --> 02:42:26,120
Speaker 1: the audio the conversation between them, because he's kind of

3129
02:42:26,360 --> 02:42:28,560
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people identify with his sense

3130
02:42:28,600 --> 02:42:31,480
Speaker 1: of like I don't really know why I was ever here.

3131
02:42:31,680 --> 02:42:32,320
Speaker 1: I don't really know.

3132
02:42:32,879 --> 02:42:37,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's someone who was dealing with like postmodern absurdity,

3133
02:42:37,680 --> 02:42:39,120
Speaker 3: but in a way that like he doesn't want to

3134
02:42:39,280 --> 02:42:41,120
Speaker 3: hurt anybody about it, but he just doesn't know what

3135
02:42:41,200 --> 02:42:42,240
Speaker 3: to do with existence.

3136
02:42:42,400 --> 02:42:45,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had part of he had like the ten

3137
02:42:45,480 --> 02:42:47,959
Speaker 1: percent of what a mass shooter has, which is exactly

3138
02:42:48,120 --> 02:42:50,359
Speaker 1: go out and I want to do something. But thankfully

3139
02:42:50,400 --> 02:42:52,320
Speaker 1: he was also a good person and didn't want to

3140
02:42:52,400 --> 02:42:54,039
Speaker 1: like murder strangers.

3141
02:42:54,440 --> 02:42:58,200
Speaker 3: So this became very popular on the Internet, including on

3142
02:42:58,240 --> 02:43:01,199
Speaker 3: redda and four chan. This he was he was dubbed

3143
02:43:01,240 --> 02:43:06,000
Speaker 3: sky King, and there's there's footage of him basically crashing

3144
02:43:06,000 --> 02:43:08,360
Speaker 3: this plane as the sun is setting, and there's there's

3145
02:43:08,400 --> 02:43:11,760
Speaker 3: footage of him flying around in sunset played often played

3146
02:43:11,959 --> 02:43:14,840
Speaker 3: with vapor Wave with his conversation with attracktic control that

3147
02:43:15,000 --> 02:43:19,480
Speaker 3: this is very popular. The sunset happy Roe Jack is

3148
02:43:19,959 --> 02:43:24,480
Speaker 3: very similar. I've seen people post this image in threads

3149
02:43:24,520 --> 02:43:27,400
Speaker 3: about sky King before, and I think a lot a

3150
02:43:27,400 --> 02:43:29,960
Speaker 3: lot of people to understand it's like this this act,

3151
02:43:30,160 --> 02:43:32,720
Speaker 3: that this this Skyking thing, that this has more in

3152
02:43:32,760 --> 02:43:36,640
Speaker 3: common with like accelerationist like terrorism than what most people

3153
02:43:36,640 --> 02:43:39,880
Speaker 3: can like really understand about like between like shooting a

3154
02:43:39,959 --> 02:43:44,039
Speaker 3: random person for like violent crime and this like this,

3155
02:43:44,040 --> 02:43:47,000
Speaker 3: this is more this, This is closer to why people

3156
02:43:47,120 --> 02:43:52,280
Speaker 3: do accelerationist like terroristic acts. But this guy was like

3157
02:43:52,480 --> 02:43:55,280
Speaker 3: not actually a monster, so he didn't do that. He

3158
02:43:55,640 --> 02:44:00,000
Speaker 3: like explicitly didn't want to hurt anybody. He explicitly didn't

3159
02:44:00,080 --> 02:44:02,359
Speaker 3: want to try to land the plane at the airport

3160
02:44:02,360 --> 02:44:03,960
Speaker 3: because he thought he might hurt somebody.

3161
02:44:04,640 --> 02:44:07,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and presumably since he worked at an airport, he

3162
02:44:07,240 --> 02:44:10,600
Speaker 1: had some knowledge of how easily that could go wrong.

3163
02:44:10,959 --> 02:44:14,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this anyway, these two images are kind of

3164
02:44:14,959 --> 02:44:17,760
Speaker 3: linked often on the Internet. So anyway, we we we

3165
02:44:17,800 --> 02:44:21,600
Speaker 3: see we see the video getting like more hopeful with

3166
02:44:21,600 --> 02:44:26,280
Speaker 3: with with Rona Santis, you know, having stupid fash wave,

3167
02:44:27,200 --> 02:44:31,560
Speaker 3: having stupid fashwave imagery. Is this sunset happy Woejack fades

3168
02:44:31,600 --> 02:44:34,039
Speaker 3: in as like as the dumer is now has like

3169
02:44:34,200 --> 02:44:37,320
Speaker 3: contentment and then this this, then this is followed by

3170
02:44:37,400 --> 02:44:41,000
Speaker 3: very quick flashes of dysantis and more.

3171
02:44:40,320 --> 02:44:42,640
Speaker 4: More more beach imagery.

3172
02:44:42,680 --> 02:44:45,879
Speaker 3: There's a lot of beach in this video. Yeah, there's

3173
02:44:46,000 --> 02:44:49,280
Speaker 3: like this like rotating sheet of stickers that read make

3174
02:44:49,320 --> 02:44:52,920
Speaker 3: America Florida. Then we get this shot of a small

3175
02:44:53,000 --> 02:44:56,600
Speaker 3: yacht zooming through the water with DeSantis campaign events played

3176
02:44:56,680 --> 02:44:59,360
Speaker 3: over top of the water. And during this shot we

3177
02:44:59,440 --> 02:45:04,120
Speaker 3: have another jack holding a rifle wearing Camo military fatigues

3178
02:45:04,200 --> 02:45:07,760
Speaker 3: that slides onto screen. He has a patch of the

3179
02:45:07,800 --> 02:45:10,959
Speaker 3: flag of Florida on his plate carrier and his helmet.

3180
02:45:11,640 --> 02:45:14,880
Speaker 3: We get more shots of beachfront cities and rocket launches,

3181
02:45:14,920 --> 02:45:18,200
Speaker 3: followed by headlines about Dysantis on a variety of topics,

3182
02:45:18,200 --> 02:45:22,600
Speaker 3: including his anti immigration actions, his use of Florida's National

3183
02:45:22,640 --> 02:45:27,600
Speaker 3: Guard in other states, DeSantis's anti diversity initiatives, his anti

3184
02:45:27,720 --> 02:45:30,800
Speaker 3: education bills, his anti drag bills, the cancelation of pride

3185
02:45:30,800 --> 02:45:33,840
Speaker 3: parades in Florida, and in general just kind of how

3186
02:45:33,879 --> 02:45:37,960
Speaker 3: DeSantis has been pushing Florida further right. So after this

3187
02:45:38,080 --> 02:45:41,480
Speaker 3: barrage of headlines, we get to the most mask off

3188
02:45:41,480 --> 02:45:44,280
Speaker 3: from a moment of the video. The flag of Florida

3189
02:45:44,360 --> 02:45:47,600
Speaker 3: fills the screen with two lines of armed troops at

3190
02:45:47,640 --> 02:45:51,879
Speaker 3: either side marching towards the flag. A still photo of

3191
02:45:52,000 --> 02:45:55,520
Speaker 3: Dysantis is center frame, with his head right in the

3192
02:45:55,560 --> 02:45:58,560
Speaker 3: middle of the seal of Florida, which is on the

3193
02:45:58,600 --> 02:46:01,800
Speaker 3: center of their state flag. The head in front of

3194
02:46:01,840 --> 02:46:05,879
Speaker 3: the seal creates this almost like halo effect around Desantas's head,

3195
02:46:06,360 --> 02:46:09,000
Speaker 3: and then the seal turns into a spinning son and

3196
02:46:09,080 --> 02:46:12,440
Speaker 3: rad as we zoom into the symbol as troops march

3197
02:46:12,560 --> 02:46:15,600
Speaker 3: into center, and then the video ends. The sun and

3198
02:46:15,680 --> 02:46:19,760
Speaker 3: Rad is on screen for about ten seconds. So this

3199
02:46:19,920 --> 02:46:23,600
Speaker 3: was a pretty upsetting thing to see on Twitter.

3200
02:46:24,080 --> 02:46:27,480
Speaker 1: Yes, upsetting is one way to phrase it. Yeah, and again.

3201
02:46:27,520 --> 02:46:30,320
Speaker 1: The son and Rad has a long history. It's kind

3202
02:46:30,320 --> 02:46:37,080
Speaker 1: of a specifically a cultic version of the swastika it reached.

3203
02:46:37,160 --> 02:46:39,280
Speaker 1: It has been around for quite a while, but it's

3204
02:46:39,400 --> 02:46:41,880
Speaker 1: most recent. The kind of thing that brought it into

3205
02:46:42,000 --> 02:46:45,400
Speaker 1: modern prominence was the christ Church shooter chose it as

3206
02:46:45,480 --> 02:46:49,520
Speaker 1: the cover of his manifesto and also wore a son

3207
02:46:49,520 --> 02:46:50,959
Speaker 1: and rad. I believe it was on the chest of

3208
02:46:51,000 --> 02:46:53,040
Speaker 1: his plate carrier when he carried out his massacre. He

3209
02:46:53,080 --> 02:46:54,240
Speaker 1: also had a couple on his gun.

3210
02:46:54,280 --> 02:46:58,240
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, so it's very clearly Nazi symbol. I

3211
02:46:58,240 --> 02:47:02,160
Speaker 3: know there's some people of making it make jokes about

3212
02:47:02,160 --> 02:47:04,920
Speaker 3: how this must have just been an azof Battalion reference.

3213
02:47:05,480 --> 02:47:06,440
Speaker 3: Deeply unserious.

3214
02:47:06,959 --> 02:47:08,600
Speaker 1: No, you can see some of these on a I

3215
02:47:08,640 --> 02:47:12,200
Speaker 1: mean again, this is a Nazi thing. They wear this too. Yeah,

3216
02:47:13,280 --> 02:47:14,240
Speaker 1: azof uses it.

3217
02:47:14,360 --> 02:47:17,240
Speaker 3: There's people trying to excuse the use of the sun

3218
02:47:17,280 --> 02:47:19,959
Speaker 3: and rad by saying, oh, it's just an azof simple

3219
02:47:20,080 --> 02:47:24,000
Speaker 3: it's not a hot sea thing, which is bad, which

3220
02:47:24,040 --> 02:47:28,120
Speaker 3: is a deeply unserious thing to say. So Yeah, this

3221
02:47:28,200 --> 02:47:31,600
Speaker 3: video was shared by at least one campaign staffer. It's

3222
02:47:31,640 --> 02:47:34,959
Speaker 3: a very short video, but it plays into a strain

3223
02:47:35,120 --> 02:47:40,280
Speaker 3: of like accelerationist propaganda tropes that even the previous Fashionay

3224
02:47:40,360 --> 02:47:43,200
Speaker 3: video didn't didn't even really have in many of the

3225
02:47:43,240 --> 02:47:46,040
Speaker 3: same ways, like like all of all of like the

3226
02:47:46,120 --> 02:47:50,040
Speaker 3: dooomer wojack slowly becoming like happy and content than putting

3227
02:47:50,040 --> 02:47:53,200
Speaker 3: on military fatigues to go fight for Ron de Santis,

3228
02:47:53,280 --> 02:47:57,280
Speaker 3: who's now in the center of like a haloed son

3229
02:47:57,320 --> 02:47:59,760
Speaker 3: and rad like it's it's it is emulating a type

3230
02:47:59,800 --> 02:48:03,160
Speaker 3: of meme that both gained popular in order to specifically

3231
02:48:03,240 --> 02:48:06,520
Speaker 3: like inspire mass shootings to happen, and also to like

3232
02:48:06,920 --> 02:48:11,039
Speaker 3: to get young depressed males to channel their depression into

3233
02:48:11,120 --> 02:48:14,879
Speaker 3: like fascism. It has a whole bunch of tropes like

3234
02:48:14,920 --> 02:48:17,440
Speaker 3: it's it's it's it's really just like playing by the playbook.

3235
02:48:18,600 --> 02:48:22,119
Speaker 3: So the video was first posted on the Twitter account

3236
02:48:22,640 --> 02:48:30,240
Speaker 3: Ron DeSantis fancams, which is a horrible sentence. Yeah, the

3237
02:48:30,320 --> 02:48:33,080
Speaker 3: account is a few months old, but its visible posts

3238
02:48:33,240 --> 02:48:37,840
Speaker 3: only go back to June. They post a lot of videos,

3239
02:48:37,879 --> 02:48:40,680
Speaker 3: all in a very similar style, which leads you to

3240
02:48:40,680 --> 02:48:43,440
Speaker 3: believe that whoever operates the account must be making the

3241
02:48:43,520 --> 02:48:47,400
Speaker 3: videos themselves. One video from the account plays clips of

3242
02:48:47,480 --> 02:48:51,280
Speaker 3: people describing Dasantis as fascist, edited together with clips of

3243
02:48:51,720 --> 02:48:56,480
Speaker 3: DeSantis deploying National Guard and calling for civilian state military

3244
02:48:56,520 --> 02:49:00,240
Speaker 3: force under his control, all sliced together next to footage

3245
02:49:00,320 --> 02:49:03,880
Speaker 3: of Nazis and Mussolini played over an upbeat e d

3246
02:49:04,040 --> 02:49:06,920
Speaker 3: M track. So it's all like explicitly fascist stuff like

3247
02:49:06,920 --> 02:49:10,720
Speaker 3: like like it's people like rev like it's like a proud,

3248
02:49:11,000 --> 02:49:16,440
Speaker 3: proudly embracing the fascist label. So this style of video

3249
02:49:16,720 --> 02:49:20,360
Speaker 3: is almost identical to the homophobic Pride Months video that

3250
02:49:20,360 --> 02:49:24,440
Speaker 3: we discussed last week. And considering the recent news that

3251
02:49:24,520 --> 02:49:27,680
Speaker 3: the other video shared by the Dasantas Warham account was

3252
02:49:27,800 --> 02:49:31,600
Speaker 3: secretly made by a campaign staffer, that led myself and

3253
02:49:31,640 --> 02:49:34,560
Speaker 3: others to assume that this son and Red video was

3254
02:49:34,600 --> 02:49:39,000
Speaker 3: most likely made by the same person inside DeSantis's campaign

3255
02:49:39,360 --> 02:49:43,199
Speaker 3: and was operating this DeSantis fancam account as a sock puppet.

3256
02:49:44,640 --> 02:49:47,920
Speaker 3: But you know, I could not prove this myself, really,

3257
02:49:48,080 --> 02:49:50,200
Speaker 3: I it's just it's it's a it's a hard thing

3258
02:49:50,280 --> 02:49:53,240
Speaker 3: to kind of backtrack this. I this account was pretty

3259
02:49:53,280 --> 02:49:55,160
Speaker 3: clean in terms of like I tried to like, you know,

3260
02:49:55,320 --> 02:49:58,400
Speaker 3: do do pretty pretty basic osin on this account, But

3261
02:49:58,440 --> 02:50:00,760
Speaker 3: it's it was, it was I could not find out

3262
02:50:00,840 --> 02:50:06,200
Speaker 3: much about it. But the campaign staff member that first

3263
02:50:06,280 --> 02:50:08,959
Speaker 3: shared this sun and Red video to his own Twitter

3264
02:50:09,000 --> 02:50:15,520
Speaker 3: account was former National Review writer Nate Hakman. We will

3265
02:50:15,720 --> 02:50:20,920
Speaker 3: we will talk about Nate Hawkman's exploits shortly shortly after

3266
02:50:21,160 --> 02:50:25,360
Speaker 3: this this hat break. All right, we are back and

3267
02:50:25,400 --> 02:50:29,440
Speaker 3: in a much better position currently than twenty five year

3268
02:50:29,440 --> 02:50:30,400
Speaker 3: old Nate Hawkman.

3269
02:50:31,160 --> 02:50:35,360
Speaker 1: Yes, so really was a tragically was a promising career.

3270
02:50:35,400 --> 02:50:38,200
Speaker 1: You know what, Let's give them another chance. Garrison, reach

3271
02:50:38,240 --> 02:50:40,080
Speaker 1: out to Nate. We can bring him on the team,

3272
02:50:40,160 --> 02:50:42,320
Speaker 1: you know, have him start making some videos for us.

3273
02:50:42,680 --> 02:50:47,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll build an invoice to Nate Hawkman's address. Yeah,

3274
02:50:47,160 --> 02:50:50,440
Speaker 3: I'll see where he lives. So, twenty five year old

3275
02:50:50,480 --> 02:50:52,920
Speaker 3: Nate Hawkman has been working as a speech writer for

3276
02:50:52,959 --> 02:50:57,280
Speaker 3: DeSantis's campaign. After rising to prominence among young conservatives for

3277
02:50:57,400 --> 02:51:02,240
Speaker 3: his online references and willingness to entertain outside the Overton window.

3278
02:51:03,040 --> 02:51:07,880
Speaker 3: Uh Hawkman hosted a Twitter space late last year centered

3279
02:51:07,879 --> 02:51:11,280
Speaker 3: around the question of if white supremacists like a Nick

3280
02:51:11,320 --> 02:51:14,520
Speaker 3: Fuentes should have a place in the modern conservative movement.

3281
02:51:15,240 --> 02:51:19,119
Speaker 3: Funtes himself appeared in the Twitter space, and Hawkman thanked

3282
02:51:19,160 --> 02:51:22,920
Speaker 3: him for radicalizing children by saying, quote, You've gotten a

3283
02:51:23,000 --> 02:51:26,039
Speaker 3: lot of kids based and we respect you for that.

3284
02:51:27,520 --> 02:51:30,720
Speaker 3: And he also said that Fuentes quote is probably a

3285
02:51:30,720 --> 02:51:34,000
Speaker 3: better influence than Ben Shapiro on young men who might

3286
02:51:34,080 --> 02:51:41,040
Speaker 3: otherwise be conservative unquote. So Hawkman has retweeted the Dysantis

3287
02:51:41,760 --> 02:51:45,280
Speaker 3: fancam account at least six times before he shared this

3288
02:51:45,320 --> 02:51:48,600
Speaker 3: on and rata video this past Sunday. But he's not

3289
02:51:48,720 --> 02:51:52,680
Speaker 3: the only Dysantis linked account to share these videos. The

3290
02:51:52,760 --> 02:51:56,600
Speaker 3: campaign's war room Twitter account and the pro DeSantis Never

3291
02:51:56,720 --> 02:52:00,240
Speaker 3: Back Down superpack have also shared videos from this Rond

3292
02:52:00,240 --> 02:52:04,320
Speaker 3: Dessanta's fancam Twitter account. By using this fancam account to

3293
02:52:04,360 --> 02:52:09,240
Speaker 3: post videos and then by retweeting on Nate's account, someone

3294
02:52:09,440 --> 02:52:12,240
Speaker 3: was certainly testing the waters to see how close the

3295
02:52:12,280 --> 02:52:16,880
Speaker 3: Dysantas campaign can get to just doing explicit Nazi shit,

3296
02:52:17,840 --> 02:52:21,080
Speaker 3: and considering the New York Times, who Hawkman has written for,

3297
02:52:21,160 --> 02:52:24,280
Speaker 3: by the way, basically confirming that the person who made

3298
02:52:24,360 --> 02:52:27,480
Speaker 3: the Pride Month video was secretly employed by Dysantis and

3299
02:52:27,520 --> 02:52:29,800
Speaker 3: posted the a third party to get some distance from

3300
02:52:29,800 --> 02:52:33,880
Speaker 3: the official campaign. This led many to suspect that Hawkman

3301
02:52:34,080 --> 02:52:37,640
Speaker 3: was secretly the person behind this fancam account due to

3302
02:52:37,680 --> 02:52:41,080
Speaker 3: the similarities in video styles and his frequent boosting of

3303
02:52:41,120 --> 02:52:44,280
Speaker 3: the account. The sun and Ride video was deleted the

3304
02:52:44,280 --> 02:52:47,160
Speaker 3: same day was posted, and the fancam account has not

3305
02:52:47,320 --> 02:52:51,160
Speaker 3: posted since then. But then suddenly, just a few hours

3306
02:52:51,160 --> 02:52:54,440
Speaker 3: ago as of time of recording, news dropped that Nick

3307
02:52:54,520 --> 02:52:57,800
Speaker 3: Hachman has been fired from the Dasantis campaign, and the

3308
02:52:57,840 --> 02:53:01,439
Speaker 3: sources at Axios confirmed that he has in fact secretly

3309
02:53:01,480 --> 02:53:05,640
Speaker 3: been making these Fashway videos. So it was it was

3310
02:53:05,680 --> 02:53:09,240
Speaker 3: Hawkman on all along. This is what happens when you

3311
02:53:09,520 --> 02:53:12,720
Speaker 3: hire a twenty five year old Groypewer to work on

3312
02:53:12,840 --> 02:53:15,840
Speaker 3: your to work on your presidential bid.

3313
02:53:16,080 --> 02:53:18,480
Speaker 1: Your very serious presidential campaign.

3314
02:53:18,879 --> 02:53:21,959
Speaker 4: Yeah so uh.

3315
02:53:22,120 --> 02:53:25,560
Speaker 3: The Dessentant's campaign officially has only said a few words

3316
02:53:25,600 --> 02:53:29,480
Speaker 3: on the subject quote, Nate Hawkman is no longer with

3317
02:53:29,560 --> 02:53:32,320
Speaker 3: the campaign and we will not be commenting on him further.

3318
02:53:34,959 --> 02:53:37,520
Speaker 1: Not that easy, guys, But other.

3319
02:53:37,440 --> 02:53:40,280
Speaker 3: Anonymous sources have confirmed to news outlets that it was

3320
02:53:40,320 --> 02:53:43,400
Speaker 3: Hawkman who was making these videos. So this is weird

3321
02:53:43,440 --> 02:53:46,760
Speaker 3: because like this hasn't been a great move for DeSantis

3322
02:53:46,840 --> 02:53:50,480
Speaker 3: hiring Hawkman, having Hawkman do all this like behind the

3323
02:53:50,520 --> 02:53:53,800
Speaker 3: scenes like Scooby Doo shit of like you're posting fasci

3324
02:53:53,959 --> 02:53:57,280
Speaker 3: fascist videos on sock wepons to then get reboosted by

3325
02:53:57,320 --> 02:54:00,400
Speaker 3: Desanta's campaign like it's it's all. It's all very like

3326
02:54:00,879 --> 02:54:04,920
Speaker 3: dark but like comical, like it's it's silly, like uh,

3327
02:54:05,240 --> 02:54:07,480
Speaker 3: similar to the Descentus video we talked about in the

3328
02:54:07,560 --> 02:54:11,480
Speaker 3: last Adventures in Fashionate episode. This video it was not

3329
02:54:11,600 --> 02:54:16,280
Speaker 3: meant to like convince older Trump supporters to vote for Dissantis, right,

3330
02:54:16,320 --> 02:54:18,720
Speaker 3: like that, that's not the intention of posting this video.

3331
02:54:19,000 --> 02:54:22,879
Speaker 1: No, this new bid trying. They are first off, going

3332
02:54:22,920 --> 02:54:27,120
Speaker 1: for the zoomer vote. Always a mixed bag anytime. Yeah,

3333
02:54:27,120 --> 02:54:28,800
Speaker 1: anytime you're going for the youth vote. This is like

3334
02:54:28,879 --> 02:54:32,680
Speaker 1: famously a difficult thing. It kind of sometimes works for

3335
02:54:32,720 --> 02:54:37,200
Speaker 1: the dims because the youth tend to be pretty progressive

3336
02:54:37,200 --> 02:54:41,080
Speaker 1: and the Republicans are terrifying. Yeah, but going for the

3337
02:54:41,280 --> 02:54:45,680
Speaker 1: trying to base your campaign as a Republican presidential candidate

3338
02:54:45,720 --> 02:54:49,080
Speaker 1: on the youths is uh quite a move. Yeah, Like

3339
02:54:49,160 --> 02:54:51,120
Speaker 1: it's let's see how it pays off for him gotten.

3340
02:54:51,440 --> 02:54:54,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, because like this new video is almost more chronically

3341
02:54:54,520 --> 02:54:58,200
Speaker 3: online than the last one, Like, not even considering the

3342
02:54:58,280 --> 02:55:02,280
Speaker 3: Nazi imagery, it's it's heavy use of BoJack memes is

3343
02:55:02,360 --> 02:55:06,320
Speaker 3: just like cartoonish to the median voter. What this video

3344
02:55:06,440 --> 02:55:09,640
Speaker 3: is trying to do is signal to self describe fascists

3345
02:55:09,760 --> 02:55:14,600
Speaker 3: that Dysantis is their guy, and trying extremely desperately to

3346
02:55:14,720 --> 02:55:17,400
Speaker 3: create another like meme magic moment like we had in

3347
02:55:17,440 --> 02:55:20,720
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen to recruit a slew of teenage Nazis to

3348
02:55:20,800 --> 02:55:25,520
Speaker 3: try and meme another based president into office, which isn't

3349
02:55:25,560 --> 02:55:28,280
Speaker 3: gonna work this time around, because it's not twenty sixteen anymore.

3350
02:55:28,320 --> 02:55:32,200
Speaker 3: Like we we've we've already been we've already been inoculated

3351
02:55:32,400 --> 02:55:36,600
Speaker 3: to some degree to this, to this style of of

3352
02:55:36,720 --> 02:55:39,760
Speaker 3: campaign tactics, all of all of the all the people

3353
02:55:39,760 --> 02:55:42,200
Speaker 3: in like like four chan. Isn't the thing that it

3354
02:55:42,320 --> 02:55:43,959
Speaker 3: used to be. It is, it is, It is a

3355
02:55:43,959 --> 02:55:48,560
Speaker 3: shell of its of its former self. But like what

3356
02:55:48,600 --> 02:55:51,680
Speaker 3: we have here on like the DeSantis side is like

3357
02:55:52,200 --> 02:55:55,200
Speaker 3: in terms of hiring people like hackmen. Right, these are

3358
02:55:55,240 --> 02:55:58,480
Speaker 3: like seasoned gropers who grew up and are now like

3359
02:55:58,520 --> 02:56:01,920
Speaker 3: getting into their twenties. Uh, you know, they're taking jobs

3360
02:56:01,959 --> 02:56:05,600
Speaker 3: at National Review and as and as campaign staffers. But

3361
02:56:05,840 --> 02:56:09,600
Speaker 3: due to their isolated, niche political upbringing, they have deluded

3362
02:56:09,600 --> 02:56:12,400
Speaker 3: themselves into thinking that there's like a mythical far right

3363
02:56:12,520 --> 02:56:15,680
Speaker 3: youth voting block that just like quite simply doesn't exist.

3364
02:56:16,040 --> 02:56:19,160
Speaker 3: So you can spend all day making and retweeting these

3365
02:56:19,240 --> 02:56:22,800
Speaker 3: meme heavy videos with Nazi imagery that really only succeed

3366
02:56:22,840 --> 02:56:28,200
Speaker 3: in turning off the reliable boomer Republican voters. Now, like,

3367
02:56:28,400 --> 02:56:31,560
Speaker 3: there's a few other you know, future scenarios here. If

3368
02:56:31,600 --> 02:56:34,440
Speaker 3: these if these like up and coming gropers continue to

3369
02:56:34,480 --> 02:56:37,080
Speaker 3: like grow up, polish their act, take more jobs as

3370
02:56:37,080 --> 02:56:40,600
Speaker 3: staffers or on Capitol Hill, and like slowly grow in

3371
02:56:40,680 --> 02:56:43,080
Speaker 3: numbers as they learn to like hide their power level

3372
02:56:43,160 --> 02:56:47,360
Speaker 3: like hea like hide their amount of racism, then we

3373
02:56:47,440 --> 02:56:49,280
Speaker 3: might have a problem. If they like actually like put

3374
02:56:49,320 --> 02:56:52,240
Speaker 3: like intentionality into a long term strategy to like put

3375
02:56:52,320 --> 02:56:57,680
Speaker 3: more of these young freaks into positions in Washington, but

3376
02:56:57,959 --> 02:57:00,640
Speaker 3: we're simply not there yet. Like in the case of Hawkman,

3377
02:57:01,040 --> 02:57:04,160
Speaker 3: he kind of just like he blew up the spot

3378
02:57:04,320 --> 02:57:09,360
Speaker 3: right like he went like he went too hard, too fast,

3379
02:57:09,400 --> 02:57:11,760
Speaker 3: and then he got fired because they don't want that shit.

3380
02:57:12,640 --> 02:57:15,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, the olds are going to watch this and go like,

3381
02:57:15,200 --> 02:57:18,279
Speaker 1: what the fuck is this? This does not look serious,

3382
02:57:18,360 --> 02:57:21,960
Speaker 1: This is not speaking to my issues. This is just

3383
02:57:22,000 --> 02:57:25,440
Speaker 1: like off putting, in strange, and most young people are like, oh,

3384
02:57:25,440 --> 02:57:28,000
Speaker 1: it's some brain poisoned four channer. That's who this guy's

3385
02:57:28,080 --> 02:57:31,680
Speaker 1: running as the four chan candidate. Yep, all right now.

3386
02:57:31,720 --> 02:57:36,640
Speaker 3: Like so the other fear is that they'll shift from

3387
02:57:36,760 --> 02:57:40,120
Speaker 3: like this electoral focus and try to just use this

3388
02:57:40,200 --> 02:57:42,720
Speaker 3: type of video propaganda to initiate another wave of like

3389
02:57:42,840 --> 02:57:47,560
Speaker 3: Nazi mass shootings like in twenty eighteen. The halo effect

3390
02:57:47,560 --> 02:57:51,080
Speaker 3: around DeSantis's head is certainly cause for concern, but there's

3391
02:57:51,080 --> 02:57:52,960
Speaker 3: a lot of other factors that go into that sort

3392
02:57:52,959 --> 02:57:54,720
Speaker 3: of thing, and that is kind of just more of

3393
02:57:54,720 --> 02:57:57,960
Speaker 3: like an ever present fear that anti fascists have, and

3394
02:57:58,240 --> 02:58:00,360
Speaker 3: you know, people do a lot of work and trying

3395
02:58:00,400 --> 02:58:03,279
Speaker 3: to catch these guys before they actually do mass shootings

3396
02:58:03,320 --> 02:58:05,480
Speaker 3: and try to try to isolate the spread of this

3397
02:58:05,600 --> 02:58:10,440
Speaker 3: style of propaganda for that very reason. So yeah, I mean,

3398
02:58:12,480 --> 02:58:15,480
Speaker 3: it's it's certainly an interesting trajectory. When I started, like

3399
02:58:15,560 --> 02:58:18,480
Speaker 3: finishing this episode earlier today, I had no idea that

3400
02:58:18,959 --> 02:58:21,440
Speaker 3: Hawkman was going to get fired, had no idea that

3401
02:58:21,480 --> 02:58:23,720
Speaker 3: it was going to be confirmed that Hawkman was the

3402
02:58:23,720 --> 02:58:26,640
Speaker 3: one making making these videos. So that's kind of some

3403
02:58:27,360 --> 02:58:29,920
Speaker 3: breaking news on our side. It's it's been a few days.

3404
02:58:29,959 --> 02:58:31,720
Speaker 3: If you're if you're listening to this, at the end

3405
02:58:31,720 --> 02:58:33,880
Speaker 3: of the week, I'm going to read out one tweet

3406
02:58:33,920 --> 02:58:37,160
Speaker 3: from this guy, a double Doink, who is a stupid,

3407
02:58:37,280 --> 02:58:40,440
Speaker 3: stupid handle no offense, but he made a made a

3408
02:58:40,600 --> 02:58:42,720
Speaker 3: made a made a pretty good point here I quote.

3409
02:58:43,080 --> 02:58:46,360
Speaker 3: I think DeSantis's real problem isn't just that he's racist,

3410
02:58:46,720 --> 02:58:50,240
Speaker 3: It's that his campaign is racist in the same way

3411
02:58:50,520 --> 02:58:55,480
Speaker 3: a really annoying teenager is your average xenophobic suburbanite dad

3412
02:58:55,720 --> 02:58:59,200
Speaker 3: looks at a son and rad roejack ad like his

3413
02:58:59,400 --> 02:59:02,560
Speaker 3: son crack his car. A lot of people are arguing

3414
02:59:02,600 --> 02:59:05,119
Speaker 3: that your average fifty six year old Trump supporter isn't

3415
02:59:05,160 --> 02:59:08,920
Speaker 3: as racist as your average DeSantis supporting Zoomer, but that's

3416
02:59:08,920 --> 02:59:11,640
Speaker 3: not the point. Putting weird blood and soil shit in

3417
02:59:11,680 --> 02:59:16,000
Speaker 3: your ads smells it's deeply uncool to the exact people

3418
02:59:16,000 --> 02:59:18,959
Speaker 3: that you want to impress unquote, and I'll add it's

3419
02:59:19,000 --> 02:59:21,119
Speaker 3: it's it's deeply uncol to the exact people you want

3420
02:59:21,120 --> 02:59:23,720
Speaker 3: to impress if you want to win at being president

3421
02:59:23,760 --> 02:59:26,800
Speaker 3: and like are trying to move over Trump voters. It's

3422
02:59:26,840 --> 02:59:30,879
Speaker 3: just it's just it's just not going to play. So

3423
02:59:31,640 --> 02:59:34,320
Speaker 3: this is this is the state of the de Santa's campaign. Now,

3424
02:59:34,360 --> 02:59:38,200
Speaker 3: they've they've shed almost forty people from their staff. The

3425
02:59:38,240 --> 02:59:40,760
Speaker 3: guy that was supposed to lead their television ads has left.

3426
02:59:42,120 --> 02:59:44,480
Speaker 3: They seemingly just have no idea what the fuck to

3427
02:59:44,520 --> 02:59:47,680
Speaker 3: do They They tried to have this guy do this

3428
02:59:47,840 --> 02:59:52,879
Speaker 3: like backdoor nazi video sock puppet strategy that has also

3429
02:59:53,080 --> 02:59:56,440
Speaker 3: resulted in not very good things for this for the

3430
02:59:56,480 --> 03:00:01,880
Speaker 3: Desanta's campaign. So I guess we'll we'll see how their

3431
03:00:01,959 --> 03:00:04,400
Speaker 3: how their campaign develops, if they if they continue this

3432
03:00:04,520 --> 03:00:08,040
Speaker 3: sort of like fash wave rhetoric and style. I kind

3433
03:00:08,040 --> 03:00:10,000
Speaker 3: of doubt it now that now that now that Hawkman

3434
03:00:10,080 --> 03:00:13,760
Speaker 3: is out. But yeah, it's been a certainly certainly an

3435
03:00:13,760 --> 03:00:17,400
Speaker 3: interesting interesting few months here, or a few weeks here

3436
03:00:17,560 --> 03:00:22,080
Speaker 3: rather in terms of in fashwave videos resurfacing again for

3437
03:00:22,120 --> 03:00:24,360
Speaker 3: the first time in quite a while. In terms of

3438
03:00:24,400 --> 03:00:25,800
Speaker 3: like mainstream of political use.

3439
03:00:26,360 --> 03:00:29,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm kind of suspecting that this might be the

3440
03:00:29,640 --> 03:00:33,320
Speaker 1: death knell of that as a at least for a spell,

3441
03:00:33,480 --> 03:00:37,320
Speaker 1: as a as a relevant form of propaganda.

3442
03:00:38,280 --> 03:00:41,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's it's been in some ways, like

3443
03:00:41,800 --> 03:00:45,320
Speaker 3: internally rejected at the Disanta's campaign, and he is arguably

3444
03:00:45,360 --> 03:00:49,320
Speaker 3: the most fascist mainstream candidate that they that we like

3445
03:00:49,400 --> 03:00:51,119
Speaker 3: have right now, nothing.

3446
03:00:50,840 --> 03:00:54,440
Speaker 1: Puts a stink on stuff like this like failure, right,

3447
03:00:54,840 --> 03:00:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, these guys, these guys are not anarchists, and

3448
03:00:58,280 --> 03:01:02,240
Speaker 1: the anarchists are we nearly always lose, So there's this

3449
03:01:02,840 --> 03:01:05,879
Speaker 1: like because things fail, you know that, Like there's a

3450
03:01:05,879 --> 03:01:08,760
Speaker 1: lot of Spanish Civil War, you know, iconography and stuff

3451
03:01:08,800 --> 03:01:11,520
Speaker 1: that's still very relevant on that chunk of the left.

3452
03:01:12,800 --> 03:01:16,560
Speaker 1: But with the right, it is all about power, and

3453
03:01:16,920 --> 03:01:20,800
Speaker 1: when something like this fails, when it actually weakens a campaign,

3454
03:01:20,840 --> 03:01:23,680
Speaker 1: when it weakens the insurgent right, when it makes them

3455
03:01:23,760 --> 03:01:27,840
Speaker 1: less able to exert power. Yeah, I kind of feel

3456
03:01:27,879 --> 03:01:31,840
Speaker 1: like we may have seen the last of this, as

3457
03:01:31,879 --> 03:01:34,640
Speaker 1: a thing that matters. Right, Yeah, I'll.

3458
03:01:34,520 --> 03:01:36,400
Speaker 3: Definitely be watching these next few months. But I think

3459
03:01:36,400 --> 03:01:39,240
Speaker 3: that's that's definitely a very a very fair assessment at

3460
03:01:39,240 --> 03:01:42,560
Speaker 3: this point. Lastly, I just want to clarify one thing

3461
03:01:42,760 --> 03:01:46,240
Speaker 3: about our last episode due to some viewer feedback. So

3462
03:01:46,560 --> 03:01:49,720
Speaker 3: last time we were talking about how the Biden administration's use

3463
03:01:49,760 --> 03:01:53,280
Speaker 3: of dark branded memes had like inadvertently led to fast

3464
03:01:53,280 --> 03:01:55,640
Speaker 3: way of taking a big body blow. Now, I think

3465
03:01:55,680 --> 03:02:00,400
Speaker 3: some people misinterpreted our discussion as downplaying anti fascists and

3466
03:02:00,480 --> 03:02:03,520
Speaker 3: leftists attempt to disrupt dark Mega and fash wave in

3467
03:02:03,560 --> 03:02:08,360
Speaker 3: general by like proliferating the satirical dark branded memes. So

3468
03:02:09,080 --> 03:02:12,359
Speaker 3: in the episode, we talked about the methodology behind this,

3469
03:02:12,360 --> 03:02:16,600
Speaker 3: this this strategy of like normies seizing onto memes and aesthetics,

3470
03:02:16,640 --> 03:02:19,400
Speaker 3: thus making them cringe and unattractive to the niche groups

3471
03:02:19,440 --> 03:02:24,120
Speaker 3: that they that that once enjoyed using them with Dark

3472
03:02:24,160 --> 03:02:26,560
Speaker 3: brand And there were certainly an attempt from anti fascists

3473
03:02:26,640 --> 03:02:30,160
Speaker 3: and leftist posters to appropriate fash waves aesthetics with the

3474
03:02:30,200 --> 03:02:33,400
Speaker 3: hope that if spread widely enough, it would disarm some

3475
03:02:33,440 --> 03:02:37,560
Speaker 3: of fashwaves more dangerous and inspirational aspects. But you can't

3476
03:02:37,560 --> 03:02:42,040
Speaker 3: really force mainstream like virality. This kind of thing works

3477
03:02:42,080 --> 03:02:45,280
Speaker 3: best when it appears natural, and for the majority of

3478
03:02:45,360 --> 03:02:48,040
Speaker 3: Dark Branded posters, they were just doing this shit for

3479
03:02:48,240 --> 03:02:51,120
Speaker 3: like shits and giggles like that. That was the primary factor,

3480
03:02:51,200 --> 03:02:55,000
Speaker 3: is that it was funny, and no effort to damage

3481
03:02:55,360 --> 03:03:00,800
Speaker 3: fash waves legibility would really be successful without mainstream spread.

3482
03:03:01,160 --> 03:03:04,000
Speaker 3: A small group of leftists could mean like eternally, but

3483
03:03:04,160 --> 03:03:06,400
Speaker 3: until it breaks through that bubble, it would have little

3484
03:03:06,440 --> 03:03:10,680
Speaker 3: to no effect. Now, because of how Twitter's algorithm worked

3485
03:03:10,760 --> 03:03:13,680
Speaker 3: during the summer of last year, after a few months,

3486
03:03:13,959 --> 03:03:17,960
Speaker 3: Dark Branded did in fact break through to the liberal mainstream.

3487
03:03:18,400 --> 03:03:20,960
Speaker 3: But I've seen nothing to suggest that the White House

3488
03:03:21,080 --> 03:03:24,840
Speaker 3: staff had any intention of trying to damage fash Wave's

3489
03:03:24,920 --> 03:03:28,280
Speaker 3: legibility by sharing laser I memes in August to twenty

3490
03:03:28,320 --> 03:03:28,760
Speaker 3: twenty two.

3491
03:03:29,440 --> 03:03:31,200
Speaker 1: I think the key here is that you were not

3492
03:03:31,320 --> 03:03:36,680
Speaker 1: saying this was purely the result of liberals accidentally like

3493
03:03:36,840 --> 03:03:41,480
Speaker 1: jumping on to this, but that the primary like success

3494
03:03:41,640 --> 03:03:44,120
Speaker 1: was achieved, Like, the part of the success that was

3495
03:03:44,120 --> 03:03:46,680
Speaker 1: achieved as a result of this going like mainstream among

3496
03:03:46,720 --> 03:03:49,840
Speaker 1: Biden supporters was accidental. Yeah, it was the part that

3497
03:03:49,920 --> 03:03:53,320
Speaker 1: was key, not saying that the people who recognize this,

3498
03:03:53,440 --> 03:03:55,560
Speaker 1: and we're putting in the background work to try to

3499
03:03:55,560 --> 03:03:59,160
Speaker 1: push this stuff and make it, you know, eventually go viral.

3500
03:03:59,200 --> 03:04:02,120
Speaker 1: That was certainly not accidental, but correct. The part that

3501
03:04:02,160 --> 03:04:05,240
Speaker 1: the liberals played was an accidental part in killing this

3502
03:04:05,440 --> 03:04:06,760
Speaker 1: That's that's the point.

3503
03:04:06,520 --> 03:04:09,200
Speaker 3: Yes, Because what I mean by accidental is that when

3504
03:04:09,280 --> 03:04:12,480
Speaker 3: dark Brandon started in March of twenty twenty two, there

3505
03:04:12,520 --> 03:04:14,760
Speaker 3: was no way to guarantee that four months later the

3506
03:04:14,800 --> 03:04:17,959
Speaker 3: White and like the White House and blue Wave liberals

3507
03:04:18,240 --> 03:04:21,240
Speaker 3: would be sharing these memes on mass Like I remember

3508
03:04:21,280 --> 03:04:25,160
Speaker 3: conversations I had like last August when liberals were seemingly

3509
03:04:25,200 --> 03:04:29,680
Speaker 3: like ruining the funny dark branded memes. But like me,

3510
03:04:30,240 --> 03:04:33,320
Speaker 3: like myself and research colleagues during this time, like that

3511
03:04:33,480 --> 03:04:37,280
Speaker 3: was when we realized that if, like if liberals keep

3512
03:04:37,320 --> 03:04:39,680
Speaker 3: sharing these cringy memes, we might actually have a shot

3513
03:04:39,680 --> 03:04:42,400
Speaker 3: at killing off a fash wave. So yes, this was

3514
03:04:42,440 --> 03:04:44,800
Speaker 3: to not discount the efforts of anti fascists or others

3515
03:04:44,800 --> 03:04:47,640
Speaker 3: who pioneered the spread of dark Brandon and their attempts

3516
03:04:47,640 --> 03:04:50,480
Speaker 3: to insert it into greater public consciousness. But I think

3517
03:04:50,520 --> 03:04:53,520
Speaker 3: to frame this as like a meticulously planned siop from

3518
03:04:53,520 --> 03:04:58,160
Speaker 3: the very start, is also kind of inaccurate in like

3519
03:04:58,200 --> 03:05:00,280
Speaker 3: a very like spotlighted way like this was. This was

3520
03:05:00,280 --> 03:05:03,360
Speaker 3: a collaborative effort with with the with the liberals not

3521
03:05:03,440 --> 03:05:08,120
Speaker 3: realizing the degree that their collaboration played in this larger

3522
03:05:08,200 --> 03:05:12,560
Speaker 3: game of trying to disarm fascist aesthetics and like meme styles.

3523
03:05:12,600 --> 03:05:15,760
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's one one clarifying note as we hopefully

3524
03:05:16,240 --> 03:05:20,200
Speaker 3: wrap up this dysantis fashwave sega for the time being,

3525
03:05:20,400 --> 03:05:22,800
Speaker 3: because I definitely did not plan on making this episode

3526
03:05:23,280 --> 03:05:26,200
Speaker 3: when I when I finished recording last week with you.

3527
03:05:26,480 --> 03:05:33,920
Speaker 1: So here we are cool, all right, that's the episode.

3528
03:05:34,000 --> 03:05:49,400
Speaker 5: That's the episode.

3529
03:05:51,160 --> 03:05:54,680
Speaker 4: It's happening here. The thing that's happening here is fucking

3530
03:05:54,800 --> 03:05:55,520
Speaker 4: child labor.

3531
03:05:55,640 --> 03:05:55,959
Speaker 5: I am.

3532
03:05:56,120 --> 03:06:00,320
Speaker 4: I am deeply angry this episode. This is see get

3533
03:06:00,400 --> 03:06:02,760
Speaker 4: up here. I'm your host, Mio Wong and with me

3534
03:06:02,920 --> 03:06:04,520
Speaker 4: Sharen Hi Mia.

3535
03:06:05,160 --> 03:06:08,039
Speaker 12: I'm so glad to join you on this really uplifting episode.

3536
03:06:08,600 --> 03:06:12,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's gonna be great. So yes, all right, as

3537
03:06:12,560 --> 03:06:14,880
Speaker 4: anyone who studied like even a little bit of labor

3538
03:06:14,959 --> 03:06:18,720
Speaker 4: history dos, the fight over child labor is very very old.

3539
03:06:18,840 --> 03:06:20,480
Speaker 4: It is. It's one of the first causes that sort

3540
03:06:20,520 --> 03:06:23,400
Speaker 4: of liberal reformers to capitalism took up nearly eighteen hundreds.

3541
03:06:23,440 --> 03:06:26,120
Speaker 4: Like it's like in the Communist Manifesto is one of

3542
03:06:26,160 --> 03:06:27,800
Speaker 4: the things. It's actually it's one of the things people

3543
03:06:27,840 --> 03:06:29,560
Speaker 4: point out. It's like, oh, we've done all the things

3544
03:06:29,600 --> 03:06:32,760
Speaker 4: that was in the original Communist Manifesto, and it's like, no, no,

3545
03:06:33,160 --> 03:06:36,240
Speaker 4: we never got rid of this, you know. It's it's

3546
03:06:36,240 --> 03:06:37,480
Speaker 4: also one of the things that like you get these

3547
03:06:37,520 --> 03:06:40,080
Speaker 4: sort of like capitalist triumphalist accounts that like, oh, we

3548
03:06:40,120 --> 03:06:42,200
Speaker 4: eliminated child labor. This is like this is proof the

3549
03:06:42,200 --> 03:06:46,360
Speaker 4: system works. No, this, the battle over child labor is

3550
03:06:46,360 --> 03:06:48,720
Speaker 4: a battle that we are in the middle of losing,

3551
03:06:49,320 --> 03:06:53,280
Speaker 4: and we are losing it in worse and worse ways

3552
03:06:53,320 --> 03:06:58,840
Speaker 4: every day. So okay, so why why are we Why

3553
03:06:58,840 --> 03:07:01,520
Speaker 4: are we dealing with a new resurgence of child labor

3554
03:07:01,560 --> 03:07:05,480
Speaker 4: in this country. There's there's a lot of reasons. One

3555
03:07:05,480 --> 03:07:07,720
Speaker 4: of the big problems is that vast swaths of the

3556
03:07:07,800 --> 03:07:12,160
Speaker 4: US sees child labor is morally good. You know, they

3557
03:07:12,160 --> 03:07:14,119
Speaker 4: see something like oh, this is like you teach your kids.

3558
03:07:14,120 --> 03:07:15,560
Speaker 4: It's like how you yeah.

3559
03:07:15,680 --> 03:07:18,240
Speaker 12: Like how they grow up and get responsible and.

3560
03:07:18,440 --> 03:07:19,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then this and this is true in a

3561
03:07:19,840 --> 03:07:22,280
Speaker 4: lot of parts of the world. It's also completely and

3562
03:07:22,520 --> 03:07:28,120
Speaker 4: absolutely bonkers. It is just it's just nuts, Like people

3563
03:07:28,280 --> 03:07:32,840
Speaker 4: shouldn't think like this. It's incredibly weird. And the other

3564
03:07:32,959 --> 03:07:34,280
Speaker 4: thing that you get a lot is like there's you know,

3565
03:07:34,320 --> 03:07:39,840
Speaker 4: there's sort of like different versions of like more or

3566
03:07:39,959 --> 03:07:42,640
Speaker 4: less socially acceptable child labor. Right, So, like I think

3567
03:07:42,680 --> 03:07:46,680
Speaker 4: most people agree if you're not running the business that

3568
03:07:46,840 --> 03:07:49,879
Speaker 4: like children shouldn't be working in like slaughterhouses or whatever.

3569
03:07:50,400 --> 03:07:52,600
Speaker 4: But you know, there's like lots of things that people

3570
03:07:52,640 --> 03:07:54,400
Speaker 4: are like, oh, no, kid working in a restaurant, like

3571
03:07:54,400 --> 03:07:57,560
Speaker 4: that's completely fine. Like oh, it's like a like a

3572
03:07:57,600 --> 03:08:01,160
Speaker 4: fourteen year old is like doing farm work on a farm,

3573
03:08:01,240 --> 03:08:02,080
Speaker 4: Like that's fine.

3574
03:08:02,480 --> 03:08:04,880
Speaker 12: But it's a slippery slope, right because it's starting to

3575
03:08:05,440 --> 03:08:08,760
Speaker 12: farm work and then down.

3576
03:08:08,920 --> 03:08:12,200
Speaker 4: Also, like I would argue that that's also not fine,

3577
03:08:12,200 --> 03:08:15,320
Speaker 4: because what's what's essentially happening here is that there's this

3578
03:08:15,520 --> 03:08:19,760
Speaker 4: basically like this sort of family loophole to people's understanding

3579
03:08:19,760 --> 03:08:22,600
Speaker 4: if child labor were like as long as child labor

3580
03:08:22,680 --> 03:08:26,039
Speaker 4: is being done by like the family is an economic

3581
03:08:26,120 --> 03:08:30,640
Speaker 4: unit instead of like capitalists directly, yes, it's fine. It's

3582
03:08:30,640 --> 03:08:33,760
Speaker 4: like no, no, it's not. It's actually not fine, to

3583
03:08:33,840 --> 03:08:36,560
Speaker 4: be working people like be a child and then working

3584
03:08:36,560 --> 03:08:38,600
Speaker 4: for a living for your family, Like that's not.

3585
03:08:40,320 --> 03:08:42,440
Speaker 12: I think there's a difference between. I think there's a

3586
03:08:42,480 --> 03:08:46,520
Speaker 12: difference between like child labor and like working in a

3587
03:08:46,560 --> 03:08:49,640
Speaker 12: field for your family versus like a chore, you know

3588
03:08:49,680 --> 03:08:52,120
Speaker 12: what I mean, Like, yeah, yeah, it's I think I

3589
03:08:52,160 --> 03:08:55,760
Speaker 12: think that line gets blurred and people see their kids

3590
03:08:55,760 --> 03:08:57,600
Speaker 12: as much more mature than they are and like able

3591
03:08:57,600 --> 03:09:00,920
Speaker 12: to like no, I don't understand what you're saying. And

3592
03:09:00,959 --> 03:09:02,280
Speaker 12: I think I agree that I.

3593
03:09:02,280 --> 03:09:06,879
Speaker 4: Agree, yeah, and it's I don't know it. It sucks.

3594
03:09:07,040 --> 03:09:08,840
Speaker 4: This has a lot of sort of knock on effects.

3595
03:09:09,080 --> 03:09:10,600
Speaker 4: One of the big knock on effects his house. And

3596
03:09:10,600 --> 03:09:11,800
Speaker 4: this is this has been a thing for like the

3597
03:09:11,920 --> 03:09:14,840
Speaker 4: entire history of child labor, right, is that like capitalists

3598
03:09:14,959 --> 03:09:16,920
Speaker 4: use children as a way to write down wages for

3599
03:09:16,959 --> 03:09:18,600
Speaker 4: everyone else. And this is you know, if you ever

3600
03:09:18,600 --> 03:09:20,800
Speaker 4: listened to argue to someone about the minimum wage, right,

3601
03:09:21,120 --> 03:09:23,160
Speaker 4: one of the big arguments about the minimum wage is

3602
03:09:23,200 --> 03:09:26,000
Speaker 4: that like, oh, well, it's like it's like kids get

3603
03:09:26,000 --> 03:09:28,440
Speaker 4: the minimum wage, so like it's fine. It's like one,

3604
03:09:28,560 --> 03:09:31,520
Speaker 4: it's not like children are not morally worth less and

3605
03:09:31,560 --> 03:09:34,279
Speaker 4: their labor is also not worth less than an adult,

3606
03:09:34,520 --> 03:09:37,240
Speaker 4: like like if if you're gonna exploin them like this.

3607
03:09:37,280 --> 03:09:40,160
Speaker 12: Like, yeah, things are the same price for everybody. It's

3608
03:09:40,200 --> 03:09:41,400
Speaker 12: not like less for a child.

3609
03:09:41,560 --> 03:09:43,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not. It's not like like a kid is

3610
03:09:43,240 --> 03:09:45,560
Speaker 4: like somehow less of a human being than an adult,

3611
03:09:45,640 --> 03:09:49,520
Speaker 4: right like this is this is this sucks, but you

3612
03:09:49,560 --> 03:09:52,560
Speaker 4: know it's used to sort of hold down wages directly

3613
03:09:52,600 --> 03:09:55,200
Speaker 4: through things like like opposing minimum wage increases. Used to

3614
03:09:55,240 --> 03:09:58,440
Speaker 4: hold you know, hold down wages sort of indirectly because

3615
03:09:58,480 --> 03:10:01,360
Speaker 4: and this is another reason like capitalists love child labor

3616
03:10:01,480 --> 03:10:05,760
Speaker 4: is that children are you know, like they're physically smaller

3617
03:10:05,760 --> 03:10:08,879
Speaker 4: than adults, they're easier to control, they have less social power,

3618
03:10:10,200 --> 03:10:12,640
Speaker 4: and because you know, because of that, you can pay

3619
03:10:12,680 --> 03:10:17,520
Speaker 4: them less. And because of you know, because because people

3620
03:10:17,720 --> 03:10:20,960
Speaker 4: just in our society don't fucking like kids, and because

3621
03:10:20,959 --> 03:10:25,560
Speaker 4: of that, it's so it's just socially accessible to just

3622
03:10:25,600 --> 03:10:26,920
Speaker 4: pay them less.

3623
03:10:26,640 --> 03:10:29,480
Speaker 12: All those reasons you listed are absolutely terrifying though, like

3624
03:10:29,520 --> 03:10:32,879
Speaker 12: oh they will listen, Oh they're smaller, Oh they're like

3625
03:10:33,840 --> 03:10:37,199
Speaker 12: cheap or whatever it is that they're all like terrible

3626
03:10:37,640 --> 03:10:40,160
Speaker 12: reasons to justify child labor.

3627
03:10:40,959 --> 03:10:45,480
Speaker 4: No, they're not good. They're not good. And yet however, Comma,

3628
03:10:46,240 --> 03:10:50,280
Speaker 4: it still persists, it has resisted. It's very old. I'm

3629
03:10:50,280 --> 03:10:52,560
Speaker 4: going to read something from the Bureau of Labor Statistics

3630
03:10:52,760 --> 03:10:58,440
Speaker 4: about this fucking kid who was working in a mine.

3631
03:10:58,600 --> 03:11:00,280
Speaker 2: What okay?

3632
03:11:00,480 --> 03:11:04,400
Speaker 4: This is from the early nineteen hundreds. One boy touchingly

3633
03:11:04,440 --> 03:11:07,240
Speaker 4: recounted his attitude towards facing the day at the mind

3634
03:11:07,280 --> 03:11:10,400
Speaker 4: this way. I'll always think of my poor blind father

3635
03:11:10,480 --> 03:11:12,880
Speaker 4: and my mother at home, but I won't never play

3636
03:11:12,920 --> 03:11:15,560
Speaker 4: with the boys at all, and then the cracker boss

3637
03:11:15,600 --> 03:11:17,440
Speaker 4: won't have to beat me like he does the others.

3638
03:11:17,800 --> 03:11:20,560
Speaker 4: This boy was nine years old. While stories like these

3639
03:11:20,640 --> 03:11:23,560
Speaker 4: produced outrage in many quarters, in the cold producing regions,

3640
03:11:23,560 --> 03:11:26,280
Speaker 4: there is no such concern the view that quote the

3641
03:11:26,320 --> 03:11:29,280
Speaker 4: little devils like it, as one cold boss put it,

3642
03:11:29,320 --> 03:11:32,520
Speaker 4: seemed to be the prevailing sentiments. Child labor wasn't discussed

3643
03:11:32,560 --> 03:11:35,240
Speaker 4: these regions because it wasn't seen as an issue. So

3644
03:11:35,520 --> 03:11:38,160
Speaker 4: this is like nineteen hundreds of American view, like early

3645
03:11:38,240 --> 03:11:41,080
Speaker 4: nieten hundreds of American view on this right, like people,

3646
03:11:42,120 --> 03:11:44,160
Speaker 4: my people, I mean capitalists, and also people who are

3647
03:11:44,160 --> 03:11:46,320
Speaker 4: incredibly desperate and don't have enough money to get by

3648
03:11:46,680 --> 03:11:50,760
Speaker 4: like love child labor. There's you know, it takes a

3649
03:11:50,800 --> 03:11:53,199
Speaker 4: long time for like an actual series anti child labor

3650
03:11:53,200 --> 03:11:56,120
Speaker 4: campaign to like get started in the US. And of

3651
03:11:56,120 --> 03:11:59,200
Speaker 4: course the exact people who you would expect to oppose

3652
03:11:59,240 --> 03:12:02,840
Speaker 4: banning child or posed banning child labor. I'm gonna read

3653
03:12:02,920 --> 03:12:06,480
Speaker 4: this from the also from the bar laboristics. The chairman

3654
03:12:06,560 --> 03:12:10,000
Speaker 4: of the National Association of Manufacturers said about a law

3655
03:12:10,040 --> 03:12:13,760
Speaker 4: to abolish child labor. Quote this union, this labor union

3656
03:12:13,800 --> 03:12:17,200
Speaker 4: plot against the advancements and happiness of the American boy,

3657
03:12:18,120 --> 03:12:21,280
Speaker 4: is a ploy. Is also a ploy against individual industrial

3658
03:12:21,360 --> 03:12:25,600
Speaker 4: expansion and prosperity in this country. So this is what

3659
03:12:25,720 --> 03:12:29,320
Speaker 4: their thing is. Their argument is that is that children

3660
03:12:29,400 --> 03:12:32,520
Speaker 4: don't oppose child labor. This is this is being foisted

3661
03:12:32,640 --> 03:12:37,279
Speaker 4: upon them by outside agitated labor unions. And also if

3662
03:12:37,280 --> 03:12:39,240
Speaker 4: we're not allowed to use child labor, and if we're

3663
03:12:39,240 --> 03:12:40,680
Speaker 4: not allowed to have a nine year old be put

3664
03:12:40,680 --> 03:12:44,360
Speaker 4: in a mine, the entire American economy will collapse and

3665
03:12:44,400 --> 03:12:45,800
Speaker 4: every manufacturer will go broke.

3666
03:12:46,320 --> 03:12:50,000
Speaker 12: It's like making you like being like child labor because patriotism,

3667
03:12:50,080 --> 03:12:51,600
Speaker 12: Like that's basically what that means.

3668
03:12:51,800 --> 03:12:55,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's it's it's genu widely terrible. Like I I

3669
03:12:55,640 --> 03:12:57,080
Speaker 8: I don't know, it's so ghoulish.

3670
03:12:57,480 --> 03:13:00,360
Speaker 4: Like companies today have figured out how to do this

3671
03:13:00,440 --> 03:13:03,720
Speaker 4: pr thing of like, oh, we don't condone child labor.

3672
03:13:03,800 --> 03:13:06,080
Speaker 4: We crack down on it very seriously. We also hire

3673
03:13:06,160 --> 03:13:08,800
Speaker 4: children literally all the time. But it's fine, We're just

3674
03:13:08,800 --> 03:13:10,920
Speaker 4: we're gonna like you know, but back in like nine hundreds,

3675
03:13:10,920 --> 03:13:12,680
Speaker 4: they hadn't really figured that out yet, and so you know,

3676
03:13:12,920 --> 03:13:14,920
Speaker 4: there's there's this sort of reform movement that happens. And

3677
03:13:14,920 --> 03:13:16,560
Speaker 4: one of the sort of key moments of this reform

3678
03:13:16,640 --> 03:13:20,480
Speaker 4: thing is the Laurence Textile Strike. And this strike is

3679
03:13:20,520 --> 03:13:24,480
Speaker 4: probably most famous today for popularizing the slogan we want

3680
03:13:24,520 --> 03:13:27,920
Speaker 4: bread and roses too, which is, you know, like wrung

3681
03:13:28,040 --> 03:13:30,400
Speaker 4: down the halls of labor and socialist histories, like the

3682
03:13:30,480 --> 03:13:33,640
Speaker 4: names of newspapers, songs, poems, and also like being the

3683
03:13:33,680 --> 03:13:38,680
Speaker 4: namesake of a truly dogshit DSA caucus. We're not going

3684
03:13:38,760 --> 03:13:42,000
Speaker 4: to talk about this strike enormously. Here the short, the

3685
03:13:42,080 --> 03:13:44,000
Speaker 4: very very short version of this strike, and this is

3686
03:13:44,000 --> 03:13:46,959
Speaker 4: a nineteen twelve strike. The short version of it is

3687
03:13:46,959 --> 03:13:49,000
Speaker 4: that there's a law pass in Massachusetts that would have

3688
03:13:49,080 --> 03:13:52,440
Speaker 4: reduced like the number of hours that you could have

3689
03:13:52,480 --> 03:13:55,640
Speaker 4: women and children work from a blistering fifty six hours

3690
03:13:55,640 --> 03:13:57,800
Speaker 4: to a leisurely fifty four hours a week.

3691
03:13:58,080 --> 03:13:58,879
Speaker 12: Oh my god.

3692
03:14:00,280 --> 03:14:04,440
Speaker 4: This prompted the local capitalist to get so mad that

3693
03:14:04,640 --> 03:14:08,080
Speaker 4: they did this like massive like industrial speed up, so

3694
03:14:08,120 --> 03:14:10,800
Speaker 4: they forced everyone to work faster and then also doctor

3695
03:14:10,840 --> 03:14:14,480
Speaker 4: everyone's paid for it. And this this set off a strike,

3696
03:14:14,959 --> 03:14:18,920
Speaker 4: which's relevant for like our stories that the workers at

3697
03:14:18,920 --> 03:14:20,840
Speaker 4: this plant. You know, there's there's lots of coverage of

3698
03:14:20,879 --> 03:14:22,879
Speaker 4: the fact that like most of these workers are immigrant women,

3699
03:14:23,080 --> 03:14:26,039
Speaker 4: like from a bunch of different places. The part of

3700
03:14:26,040 --> 03:14:27,600
Speaker 4: it that's not talked about as much is that another

3701
03:14:27,680 --> 03:14:29,520
Speaker 4: huge person of the workers we're is fucking.

3702
03:14:29,360 --> 03:14:34,480
Speaker 12: Children, and it seems to get glossed over.

3703
03:14:35,000 --> 03:14:38,000
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, And it's like, I, I, you know, I

3704
03:14:38,000 --> 03:14:39,960
Speaker 4: don't know, maybe maybe maybe we should go back to

3705
03:14:40,000 --> 03:14:42,640
Speaker 4: talking about that part because it's really important for like

3706
03:14:43,520 --> 03:14:46,039
Speaker 4: the stuff we're going to talk about later in this episode.

3707
03:14:46,080 --> 03:14:49,360
Speaker 4: That made me so angry, I was like physically punching

3708
03:14:49,400 --> 03:14:52,960
Speaker 4: my pillow. What happens next is that the police crackdown

3709
03:14:52,959 --> 03:14:55,640
Speaker 4: on the strike. It's more and more violence, and as

3710
03:14:55,680 --> 03:14:58,920
Speaker 4: this goes on, the workers at like the adult workers

3711
03:14:58,920 --> 03:15:01,120
Speaker 4: at this plant decide, Okay, we're gonna like send the

3712
03:15:01,200 --> 03:15:03,160
Speaker 4: children who are both like both the child workers and

3713
03:15:03,200 --> 03:15:06,560
Speaker 4: also like just people's kids to New York to keep

3714
03:15:06,600 --> 03:15:08,800
Speaker 4: them safe and also to make a political point. But like, hey,

3715
03:15:08,800 --> 03:15:11,200
Speaker 4: look they're they're running our children out of town, and

3716
03:15:11,320 --> 03:15:13,000
Speaker 4: this goes great. The first way is just go great

3717
03:15:13,040 --> 03:15:14,360
Speaker 4: for the children. Like a bunch of people in New

3718
03:15:14,440 --> 03:15:16,280
Speaker 4: York show up are like yay, hey, we'll take care

3719
03:15:16,320 --> 03:15:20,400
Speaker 4: of these kids. Like and this makes like the officials

3720
03:15:20,400 --> 03:15:23,480
Speaker 4: in Lawrence be like, you have to stop this. It

3721
03:15:23,480 --> 03:15:27,680
Speaker 4: looks really bad for us. And so they they like

3722
03:15:27,800 --> 03:15:30,879
Speaker 4: assembled outside of the next train that was trying to

3723
03:15:30,959 --> 03:15:34,640
Speaker 4: leave and tried to stop them. Oh my god, so

3724
03:15:34,760 --> 03:15:38,160
Speaker 4: she shouldn't be really brististics Again, When the next group

3725
03:15:38,160 --> 03:15:40,480
Speaker 4: of children prepared to depart the train station, they were

3726
03:15:40,520 --> 03:15:43,440
Speaker 4: met by police and soldiers. The police refused to let

3727
03:15:43,480 --> 03:15:45,879
Speaker 4: them board the trains and launched an attack on the group.

3728
03:15:46,280 --> 03:15:48,160
Speaker 4: A seven year old was given a black eye when

3729
03:15:48,200 --> 03:15:50,360
Speaker 4: she was picked up and thrown into a patty wagon

3730
03:15:50,400 --> 03:15:54,680
Speaker 4: by police. Another witness. Another witness testified to children being

3731
03:15:54,720 --> 03:15:56,200
Speaker 4: thrown around like rags.

3732
03:15:57,040 --> 03:16:01,480
Speaker 8: Oh my god, like yeah, thin blue live baby, let's

3733
03:16:01,480 --> 03:16:02,039
Speaker 8: fucking go.

3734
03:16:02,600 --> 03:16:03,400
Speaker 4: This is this is the thing.

3735
03:16:03,480 --> 03:16:06,800
Speaker 8: The cops or the thin blue line ordering chaos that

3736
03:16:07,000 --> 03:16:11,560
Speaker 8: sevy little girls. Yeah's not gonna throw herself around, right,

3737
03:16:11,720 --> 03:16:13,879
Speaker 8: Like someone has to beat up this children.

3738
03:16:14,280 --> 03:16:16,280
Speaker 4: And for that there is the few, the proud, the

3739
03:16:16,320 --> 03:16:17,240
Speaker 4: American police.

3740
03:16:17,440 --> 03:16:19,280
Speaker 12: But they were scared for their lives, you know what

3741
03:16:19,320 --> 03:16:20,760
Speaker 12: I mean, Like there're seven.

3742
03:16:20,600 --> 03:16:23,760
Speaker 4: Year olds that that seven year old girl looked at

3743
03:16:23,800 --> 03:16:25,320
Speaker 4: me really aggressively.

3744
03:16:25,440 --> 03:16:27,960
Speaker 12: Yeah, I was scared for my life. That's what they said.

3745
03:16:28,480 --> 03:16:31,879
Speaker 4: It's it's you know, it's this is bad. And like

3746
03:16:31,920 --> 03:16:35,800
Speaker 4: you know, the the nineteen hundreds police can get away with,

3747
03:16:35,920 --> 03:16:37,959
Speaker 4: like nineteen hundred police. We've tked about another episodes, like

3748
03:16:38,080 --> 03:16:40,400
Speaker 4: they could get away with just like shooting people right,

3749
03:16:40,440 --> 03:16:42,920
Speaker 4: like the like they could show up to like a

3750
03:16:43,040 --> 03:16:45,240
Speaker 4: strike and just open fire into the crowd and it

3751
03:16:45,240 --> 03:16:50,800
Speaker 4: doesn't do anything throwing around a bunch of children like rags. Finally,

3752
03:16:50,840 --> 03:16:53,040
Speaker 4: it turned out was the thing that was bad enough

3753
03:16:53,040 --> 03:16:55,160
Speaker 4: that it like started a congressional investigation.

3754
03:16:55,680 --> 03:16:57,160
Speaker 12: Wow, I guess that's good and bad.

3755
03:16:57,240 --> 03:16:59,520
Speaker 9: But yeah, so.

3756
03:16:59,520 --> 03:17:02,280
Speaker 4: There's a call launched this investigation, and there's like this

3757
03:17:02,320 --> 03:17:06,080
Speaker 4: fourteen year old immigrant girl named Kamela Tielli testifies about

3758
03:17:06,080 --> 03:17:08,280
Speaker 4: how she was working at the mill when a machine

3759
03:17:08,480 --> 03:17:14,039
Speaker 4: caught her hair and tore her scalp off. The police

3760
03:17:14,040 --> 03:17:17,320
Speaker 4: promptly and this is going and okay, the police promptly

3761
03:17:17,400 --> 03:17:19,960
Speaker 4: arrested her dad. Didn't do anything to the company, arrested

3762
03:17:19,959 --> 03:17:22,800
Speaker 4: her dad for lying about her age. Oh my god,

3763
03:17:22,879 --> 03:17:27,360
Speaker 4: what now this hold that wood in your fucking mind,

3764
03:17:27,440 --> 03:17:29,480
Speaker 4: because we're gonna come back to that shit, do I

3765
03:17:29,600 --> 03:17:33,320
Speaker 4: have to? Okay? Unfortunately, because it's gonna get so much

3766
03:17:33,320 --> 03:17:38,240
Speaker 4: worse when Tyler's episode is over. So the product of

3767
03:17:38,280 --> 03:17:40,400
Speaker 4: this is that there starts to be like a really

3768
03:17:40,440 --> 03:17:42,680
Speaker 4: mainstream push against child labor, which is, you know, a

3769
03:17:42,760 --> 03:17:45,240
Speaker 4: thing you would have thought would have started earlier, because again,

3770
03:17:45,520 --> 03:17:49,160
Speaker 4: we're on like century two of child labor in the

3771
03:17:49,240 --> 03:17:51,240
Speaker 4: US by this point, right like in the in an

3772
03:17:51,360 --> 03:17:55,879
Speaker 4: entity called the United States. But you know, apparently it

3773
03:17:55,959 --> 03:17:58,520
Speaker 4: takes this to actually make people go, wait, maybe this

3774
03:17:58,560 --> 03:18:02,280
Speaker 4: is bad. And the product of this is you get

3775
03:18:02,280 --> 03:18:06,240
Speaker 4: this thing called the Kenning Owen Child Labor Act nineteen sixteen. Now,

3776
03:18:06,280 --> 03:18:08,320
Speaker 4: as we sort of talked about earlier, right, the weakness

3777
03:18:08,360 --> 03:18:11,240
Speaker 4: of this law is that it, you know, it allows

3778
03:18:11,360 --> 03:18:13,840
Speaker 4: kids to be used as laborers, like inside of the

3779
03:18:13,879 --> 03:18:16,400
Speaker 4: family unit. So like if you're on a family and

3780
03:18:16,400 --> 03:18:18,600
Speaker 4: this is a very very broad category. Right, so it's

3781
03:18:18,640 --> 03:18:20,480
Speaker 4: you know, you can you can force your child to

3782
03:18:20,520 --> 03:18:23,240
Speaker 4: work as long as like you're their parents, right, you're

3783
03:18:23,280 --> 03:18:24,840
Speaker 4: the one making the money off of them, and not

3784
03:18:25,040 --> 03:18:30,039
Speaker 4: like a capitalist. But even this, even this is considered

3785
03:18:30,240 --> 03:18:33,160
Speaker 4: too strong of a law. And in nineteen eighteen, the

3786
03:18:33,200 --> 03:18:36,800
Speaker 4: Supreme Court rules and it's unconstitutional to ban child labor.

3787
03:18:37,720 --> 03:18:43,600
Speaker 4: Wait what Yeah, they do it the uiple times, multiple times.

3788
03:18:43,640 --> 03:18:46,560
Speaker 4: And we really cannot emphasize this enough on this show.

3789
03:18:46,720 --> 03:18:49,720
Speaker 4: The Supreme Court is and has always been just one

3790
03:18:49,760 --> 03:18:51,480
Speaker 4: of history's greatest monsters.

3791
03:18:51,959 --> 03:18:55,680
Speaker 12: Like, yeah, wait, I was right then, child labor does

3792
03:18:55,720 --> 03:18:59,240
Speaker 12: equal patriotism. That's basically what's so.

3793
03:18:59,320 --> 03:19:03,040
Speaker 4: Eventually FDR gets into this giant fight with Supreme Court,

3794
03:19:03,240 --> 03:19:05,720
Speaker 4: and the first child labor law we get in federal

3795
03:19:05,800 --> 03:19:10,640
Speaker 4: child labor law that gets that sticks. I like doesn't

3796
03:19:10,680 --> 03:19:14,560
Speaker 4: happen till nineteen thirty eight when FDR threatens to pack

3797
03:19:14,640 --> 03:19:18,640
Speaker 4: the court if the Court refuses to fucking stop stop

3798
03:19:18,720 --> 03:19:20,840
Speaker 4: saying that that that the state, that the state doesn't

3799
03:19:20,840 --> 03:19:23,200
Speaker 4: have the government doesn't have the power to regulate child labor.

3800
03:19:24,120 --> 03:19:26,600
Speaker 12: Wow, it's like literally less than a century ago. That is,

3801
03:19:26,680 --> 03:19:28,600
Speaker 12: like yesterday, you.

3802
03:19:28,560 --> 03:19:30,959
Speaker 4: Know, but but but you know, and this actually works, right,

3803
03:19:31,120 --> 03:19:33,840
Speaker 4: but but and this is a real problem. And this

3804
03:19:33,920 --> 03:19:35,440
Speaker 4: is a problem that we're gonna we're gonna talk about

3805
03:19:35,480 --> 03:19:38,800
Speaker 4: later in this fucking episode. In the modern day, those

3806
03:19:38,879 --> 03:19:43,039
Speaker 4: child labor laws don't get enforced. It doesn't that act,

3807
03:19:43,160 --> 03:19:46,360
Speaker 4: that actual the nineteen thirty eight Fair Labor Act, like

3808
03:19:47,040 --> 03:19:51,119
Speaker 4: basically doesn't actually do shit to like reduce the amount

3809
03:19:51,120 --> 03:19:54,160
Speaker 4: of child labor in the country. And here's the thing,

3810
03:19:54,280 --> 03:19:57,680
Speaker 4: like even now, even before all the horror show stuff

3811
03:19:57,680 --> 03:19:59,560
Speaker 4: that we're about to get to that's happening right now,

3812
03:19:59,640 --> 03:20:02,840
Speaker 4: like not kids, like we never actually dealt with child

3813
03:20:02,879 --> 03:20:06,800
Speaker 4: labor through like the law. Like we just basically outsourced,

3814
03:20:06,840 --> 03:20:08,800
Speaker 4: you know, Okay, we we had to find someone whose

3815
03:20:08,840 --> 03:20:12,240
Speaker 4: labor is cheaper than like an American child, and we did.

3816
03:20:12,320 --> 03:20:17,000
Speaker 4: It's either like mechanization other immigrants who like don't have

3817
03:20:17,120 --> 03:20:21,840
Speaker 4: legal citizenship status, or just outsourcing. And then you know,

3818
03:20:22,240 --> 03:20:24,600
Speaker 4: our kids still fucking do work, you know, like are

3819
03:20:24,800 --> 03:20:27,080
Speaker 4: like they're like it's very common for ten and twelve

3820
03:20:27,120 --> 03:20:28,640
Speaker 4: year olds to work. It's just that it's usually like

3821
03:20:28,720 --> 03:20:32,600
Speaker 4: babysitting or like bowing lawns. And we've we've decided that like, no,

3822
03:20:32,720 --> 03:20:34,680
Speaker 4: this is actually fine, Like it is actually fine to

3823
03:20:34,760 --> 03:20:36,760
Speaker 4: fucking put twelve year olds in a labor market.

3824
03:20:38,280 --> 03:20:41,039
Speaker 12: Yeah. I mean I think most people today anyway, I

3825
03:20:41,040 --> 03:20:44,760
Speaker 12: think the common person thinks that child labor happens like

3826
03:20:45,160 --> 03:20:47,800
Speaker 12: in other countries over there, you know what I mean.

3827
03:20:47,879 --> 03:20:52,080
Speaker 12: I don't think they think America is still that archaic

3828
03:20:52,120 --> 03:20:52,680
Speaker 12: and stupid.

3829
03:20:53,080 --> 03:20:56,720
Speaker 4: But yeah, and oh my god, yeah, so we need

3830
03:20:56,760 --> 03:20:59,760
Speaker 4: to take an ad break. And then I'm not even

3831
03:20:59,800 --> 03:21:03,000
Speaker 4: gonna make a joke about our sponsors and child labor because,

3832
03:21:03,000 --> 03:21:05,760
Speaker 4: like Jesus fucking Christ, this is good about to be

3833
03:21:05,760 --> 03:21:11,360
Speaker 4: it so bad? But yeah, here's what ads. Okay, So

3834
03:21:12,120 --> 03:21:15,680
Speaker 4: you know, we never really got rid of child labor, right,

3835
03:21:16,080 --> 03:21:21,160
Speaker 4: what we did basically was, to some extent, we've been

3836
03:21:21,160 --> 03:21:24,879
Speaker 4: able to successfully decrease the severity of it. And you know,

3837
03:21:24,959 --> 03:21:27,400
Speaker 4: in the last twenty years, there'd been a decline in

3838
03:21:27,520 --> 03:21:30,600
Speaker 4: what economists and I really cannot emphasize enough this is

3839
03:21:30,640 --> 03:21:34,320
Speaker 4: the actual phrase they use, is child participation in the

3840
03:21:34,400 --> 03:21:35,760
Speaker 4: labor markets.

3841
03:21:36,360 --> 03:21:40,600
Speaker 12: Wow, so vanilla of a way to say that.

3842
03:21:41,120 --> 03:21:44,320
Speaker 4: So return to present day, present day. The thing that's

3843
03:21:44,320 --> 03:21:46,760
Speaker 4: been happening in the last few months is that in

3844
03:21:46,840 --> 03:21:51,600
Speaker 4: a five week span in this country. Three children died

3845
03:21:51,959 --> 03:21:53,760
Speaker 4: or I, you know, I would actually argue we're killed

3846
03:21:53,760 --> 03:21:59,160
Speaker 4: by their employers on the job. Wow, five children in

3847
03:21:59,560 --> 03:22:03,920
Speaker 4: three building in five weeks. So sixteen these there, these

3848
03:22:03,959 --> 03:22:07,199
Speaker 4: kids were all sixteen. Sixteen year old Duven Thomas Perez

3849
03:22:07,240 --> 03:22:10,879
Speaker 4: got killed by machinery, had a conveyor belt. Sixteen year

3850
03:22:10,879 --> 03:22:13,520
Speaker 4: old Will Hampton died working at a landfill, and sixteen

3851
03:22:13,560 --> 03:22:16,480
Speaker 4: year old Michael Schulz died working for a logging company.

3852
03:22:17,840 --> 03:22:21,600
Speaker 4: There have been other child labor deaths recently. Those are

3853
03:22:21,640 --> 03:22:25,039
Speaker 4: just sort of the most recent ones. And I want

3854
03:22:25,040 --> 03:22:29,280
Speaker 4: to get in to this shit that's been happening because

3855
03:22:29,320 --> 03:22:33,720
Speaker 4: in the last really in the last been under like

3856
03:22:33,760 --> 03:22:37,039
Speaker 4: eight years, things have gotten you know, like the til

3857
03:22:37,120 --> 03:22:38,920
Speaker 4: labor situation in the US was never good, and we'll

3858
03:22:38,920 --> 03:22:42,360
Speaker 4: talk about that later, but like things have gotten so

3859
03:22:42,520 --> 03:22:47,120
Speaker 4: much worse. There's been almost a factor of four increase

3860
03:22:47,200 --> 03:22:50,760
Speaker 4: in twenty fifteen in kids working illegally and hazardous jobs.

3861
03:22:51,000 --> 03:22:54,000
Speaker 4: It's actually probably well, it's unclear to me whether the

3862
03:22:54,080 --> 03:22:56,480
Speaker 4: numbers are actually worse than that. I don't know, because

3863
03:22:56,480 --> 03:22:59,000
Speaker 4: I think almost all of this these districts are being

3864
03:22:59,080 --> 03:23:03,840
Speaker 4: undercounted like dramatically because those numbers are just like violations

3865
03:23:03,879 --> 03:23:06,640
Speaker 4: that are caught and go into that a bit later.

3866
03:23:07,240 --> 03:23:12,320
Speaker 4: But meanwhile, like right now, Arkansas, Iowa, New Hampshire, New Jersey,

3867
03:23:12,360 --> 03:23:14,760
Speaker 4: and Vermont have already passed laws in the last two

3868
03:23:14,800 --> 03:23:17,160
Speaker 4: years that weakened restrictions on child labor, and bills are

3869
03:23:17,200 --> 03:23:19,640
Speaker 4: appearing like across the country to do fucking more of

3870
03:23:19,720 --> 03:23:22,360
Speaker 4: the same stuff, like they want to allow fourteen year

3871
03:23:22,400 --> 03:23:28,680
Speaker 4: olds to serve alcohol in bars. It's you know, it is.

3872
03:23:28,720 --> 03:23:31,160
Speaker 4: It is truly horrific, and it's being driven by restaurant

3873
03:23:31,240 --> 03:23:33,520
Speaker 4: business associations across the country who want to, you know,

3874
03:23:33,760 --> 03:23:37,600
Speaker 4: use child labor. And that's bad. The fact that there's

3875
03:23:37,600 --> 03:23:40,080
Speaker 4: more stuff that's that you know, is on the horizon

3876
03:23:40,440 --> 03:23:44,199
Speaker 4: is not good. But for an enormous number of people,

3877
03:23:44,600 --> 03:23:47,959
Speaker 4: regardless of what the law says, the situation is absolutely intolerable.

3878
03:23:49,400 --> 03:23:52,000
Speaker 4: Here's from the New York Times. In many parts of

3879
03:23:52,000 --> 03:23:55,240
Speaker 4: the country, middle and high school teachers in English language

3880
03:23:55,320 --> 03:23:58,160
Speaker 4: larder programs say it is now common for nearly all

3881
03:23:58,240 --> 03:24:00,560
Speaker 4: of their students to rush off to law long shift

3882
03:24:00,560 --> 03:24:04,560
Speaker 4: after their classes end. They should not be working twelve

3883
03:24:04,600 --> 03:24:08,440
Speaker 4: hour days, but it's happening here, said Valeria Lindsay, an

3884
03:24:08,560 --> 03:24:12,320
Speaker 4: arts language arts teacher at Homestead Middle School near Miami.

3885
03:24:12,760 --> 03:24:15,600
Speaker 4: For the past three years, almost every eighth grader in

3886
03:24:15,640 --> 03:24:19,160
Speaker 4: her English learner program, about one hundred students, was also

3887
03:24:19,240 --> 03:24:27,800
Speaker 4: carrying an adult workload. So there's been a massive surge

3888
03:24:27,840 --> 03:24:32,560
Speaker 4: since twenty twenty one in unaccompanied minors entering the US.

3889
03:24:32,640 --> 03:24:37,840
Speaker 4: And this has been driven by a lot of sort

3890
03:24:37,879 --> 03:24:40,920
Speaker 4: of you know, it's been driven by pandemic driven poverty,

3891
03:24:41,240 --> 03:24:43,400
Speaker 4: a massive obseration of violence in a bunch of countries

3892
03:24:43,440 --> 03:24:45,720
Speaker 4: in Central America, a lot of which has to do

3893
03:24:45,879 --> 03:24:49,040
Speaker 4: with a like you know, the the US back to

3894
03:24:49,120 --> 03:24:54,320
Speaker 4: q Andel, Southador about a decade ago. You know, there's

3895
03:24:54,320 --> 03:24:56,440
Speaker 4: a lot of stuff going on. It's all very bad,

3896
03:24:57,120 --> 03:25:01,000
Speaker 4: and it's been pushing people here. But you know, like

3897
03:25:01,080 --> 03:25:04,720
Speaker 4: the situation for immigrants getting into the US is never good,

3898
03:25:05,360 --> 03:25:09,480
Speaker 4: but Biden specifically has managed to make it worse because

3899
03:25:09,520 --> 03:25:13,720
Speaker 4: Biden's sort of like Biden's immigration policy has been resting

3900
03:25:13,760 --> 03:25:16,760
Speaker 4: on getting kids out of shelters as fast as humanly

3901
03:25:16,800 --> 03:25:19,800
Speaker 4: possible and just like throwing them at literally anyone who

3902
03:25:19,800 --> 03:25:24,920
Speaker 4: claims to be a sponsor, right, And you know, this

3903
03:25:25,000 --> 03:25:27,320
Speaker 4: has gone about as well as you would expect it

3904
03:25:27,360 --> 03:25:29,640
Speaker 4: would when someone like starts to you know. One of

3905
03:25:29,680 --> 03:25:31,920
Speaker 4: the I think was the New York Times was talking

3906
03:25:31,959 --> 03:25:34,160
Speaker 4: about this woman who's working. You quit working in a

3907
03:25:34,360 --> 03:25:37,600
Speaker 4: health human services like office because they had a quota

3908
03:25:37,640 --> 03:25:39,320
Speaker 4: of getting rid of twenty percent of their kids a

3909
03:25:39,360 --> 03:25:43,040
Speaker 4: week and if they didn't do it, they would get dated. Yeah,

3910
03:25:43,080 --> 03:25:44,960
Speaker 4: they had a quota for we need to get twenty

3911
03:25:45,000 --> 03:25:46,840
Speaker 4: percent of the kids out of the shelter every week.

3912
03:25:47,600 --> 03:25:48,040
Speaker 2: Wow.

3913
03:25:48,400 --> 03:25:51,000
Speaker 4: In the last two years they have lost track of

3914
03:25:51,040 --> 03:25:53,000
Speaker 4: a third of the kids they send out, which is

3915
03:25:53,520 --> 03:25:56,760
Speaker 4: again in the last two years alone, at least eighty

3916
03:25:56,800 --> 03:26:00,959
Speaker 4: five thousand children. They've just lost fucking know who they are.

3917
03:26:01,920 --> 03:26:04,440
Speaker 4: Here's some New York Times again. It's getting to be

3918
03:26:04,480 --> 03:26:07,640
Speaker 4: a business for some of these sponsors. And yet Pasilaqua,

3919
03:26:07,680 --> 03:26:10,120
Speaker 4: who left her job as a caseworker in Central Florida

3920
03:26:10,200 --> 03:26:13,640
Speaker 4: last year. Miss Pasilachua said she saw so many children

3921
03:26:13,680 --> 03:26:16,320
Speaker 4: put to work and found law enforcement officials so unwilling

3922
03:26:16,360 --> 03:26:21,240
Speaker 4: to investigate these cases that she largely stopped reporting them. Instead,

3923
03:26:21,320 --> 03:26:23,560
Speaker 4: she settled for explaining to the children that they were

3924
03:26:23,720 --> 03:26:25,640
Speaker 4: entitled to lunch breaks in overtime.

3925
03:26:27,000 --> 03:26:27,480
Speaker 12: Wow.

3926
03:26:29,760 --> 03:26:33,240
Speaker 4: Wow, And you know, I want to make really clear

3927
03:26:33,680 --> 03:26:36,400
Speaker 4: what we're talking about here, right, This is not you know,

3928
03:26:36,480 --> 03:26:40,359
Speaker 4: like I don't think like you know, whatever your position

3929
03:26:40,520 --> 03:26:43,400
Speaker 4: is on like whether like a twelve year old or

3930
03:26:43,400 --> 03:26:45,680
Speaker 4: a fourteen year old should be working any job at all.

3931
03:26:46,120 --> 03:26:49,200
Speaker 4: We are talking about twelve year olds working on factories.

3932
03:26:49,200 --> 03:26:52,120
Speaker 4: We were talking about thirteen year olds cleaning up the

3933
03:26:52,200 --> 03:26:56,280
Speaker 4: floors of slaughter the kill floors of slaughterhouses. We are

3934
03:26:56,320 --> 03:27:01,240
Speaker 4: talking about like, we are talking about fourteen year olds

3935
03:27:01,560 --> 03:27:08,680
Speaker 4: who are like literally making food that like you are eating. Yeah,

3936
03:27:08,680 --> 03:27:11,520
Speaker 4: and we're still right, So this is this is happening

3937
03:27:11,520 --> 03:27:13,200
Speaker 4: in a large part because there's been a sort of

3938
03:27:13,520 --> 03:27:16,200
Speaker 4: like a giant surgeon on a company of miners. Well,

3939
03:27:16,200 --> 03:27:17,720
Speaker 4: it turns out a lot of those miners are on

3940
03:27:17,760 --> 03:27:20,920
Speaker 4: a company because the Biden administration wouldn't let their fucking

3941
03:27:21,040 --> 03:27:26,800
Speaker 4: parents into the country. And this is where this is

3942
03:27:26,800 --> 03:27:28,840
Speaker 4: where we need to get into the fucking like the

3943
03:27:28,879 --> 03:27:31,920
Speaker 4: whole sort of like sex trafficking panic, right because you know,

3944
03:27:32,040 --> 03:27:34,480
Speaker 4: one of the things that that this panic, specifically about

3945
03:27:34,480 --> 03:27:37,840
Speaker 4: sex trafficking, has covered up is that most human trafficking

3946
03:27:38,080 --> 03:27:42,080
Speaker 4: is not sex trafficking. It's almost all labor trafficking. Almost

3947
03:27:42,080 --> 03:27:45,000
Speaker 4: also too strong a word, but it's mostly by volume.

3948
03:27:45,440 --> 03:27:49,040
Speaker 4: Most of it is is labor trafficking, which nobody gives

3949
03:27:49,040 --> 03:27:51,720
Speaker 4: a single shit about because you know, there's no you

3950
03:27:51,760 --> 03:27:55,360
Speaker 4: can't you can't have a moral panic around like you

3951
03:27:55,360 --> 03:27:58,119
Speaker 4: can't have a moral panic around labor trafficking like people

3952
03:27:58,160 --> 03:28:02,200
Speaker 4: who aren't white. And simultaneously, all the business groups who

3953
03:28:02,200 --> 03:28:05,199
Speaker 4: would normally fund these panics like love this shit because

3954
03:28:05,680 --> 03:28:08,080
Speaker 4: you know, all all of these capitals ghouls drinking a

3955
03:28:08,120 --> 03:28:11,119
Speaker 4: thousand dollars bottles of wine, un they're thirty million dollar yachts.

3956
03:28:12,800 --> 03:28:14,800
Speaker 4: All of that shit is paid for by child labor,

3957
03:28:14,840 --> 03:28:16,240
Speaker 4: so of course they don't give a shit about it.

3958
03:28:16,240 --> 03:28:18,920
Speaker 4: In fact, they love it. And the you know, the

3959
03:28:18,920 --> 03:28:20,680
Speaker 4: product of this is you have a bunch of fucking

3960
03:28:20,720 --> 03:28:23,920
Speaker 4: twelve year olds who are effectively in debt bondage, working

3961
03:28:23,920 --> 03:28:26,080
Speaker 4: twelve hours a fucking day in a slaughterhouse or a

3962
03:28:26,080 --> 03:28:30,800
Speaker 4: paper bill. I'm gonna read another thing for the New

3963
03:28:30,879 --> 03:28:35,160
Speaker 4: York Times, which is, I don't know, so many of

3964
03:28:35,200 --> 03:28:38,440
Speaker 4: these things are so depressing, but like I think this

3965
03:28:38,520 --> 03:28:44,080
Speaker 4: is the most depressing thing I've read in this entire

3966
03:28:44,160 --> 03:28:48,879
Speaker 4: I don't know, like in ages, I didn't get how

3967
03:28:48,920 --> 03:28:52,400
Speaker 4: expensive everything was, says thirteen year old Jose Vasquez, who

3968
03:28:52,400 --> 03:28:55,039
Speaker 4: works twelve hour shifts, six days a week at a

3969
03:28:55,040 --> 03:28:58,000
Speaker 4: commercial egg farm in Michigan and lives with his teenage sister.

3970
03:28:58,520 --> 03:29:00,840
Speaker 4: I'd like to go to school, but then how would

3971
03:29:00,840 --> 03:29:06,440
Speaker 4: I pay rent? Thirteen thirteen? You know? And of course

3972
03:29:06,520 --> 03:29:08,480
Speaker 4: one of you know, like the everything about this, right

3973
03:29:08,640 --> 03:29:12,520
Speaker 4: is these these are people dealing with the fucking American

3974
03:29:12,520 --> 03:29:15,920
Speaker 4: housing market. Right. The American housing market is intolerable to

3975
03:29:16,120 --> 03:29:19,440
Speaker 4: adults who work full time, who work like full time

3976
03:29:19,560 --> 03:29:23,680
Speaker 4: jobs or multiple part time jobs. Right, this is a

3977
03:29:23,720 --> 03:29:26,720
Speaker 4: thirteen year old. How the fuck is a thirteen year old?

3978
03:29:26,720 --> 03:29:27,960
Speaker 4: It's supposed to be paying rent?

3979
03:29:29,120 --> 03:29:29,280
Speaker 1: Right?

3980
03:29:31,040 --> 03:29:33,480
Speaker 4: And you know, and every every sort of additional thing

3981
03:29:33,560 --> 03:29:35,560
Speaker 4: just makes it worse because the more the more of

3982
03:29:35,600 --> 03:29:37,360
Speaker 4: these kids. And one of one of the things is

3983
03:29:37,360 --> 03:29:40,000
Speaker 4: happening is these kids are getting funneed into very specific areas,

3984
03:29:40,240 --> 03:29:43,240
Speaker 4: right because they're getting they're getting funneled to like specific towns,

3985
03:29:43,240 --> 03:29:46,400
Speaker 4: because those specific towns have a bunch of like have

3986
03:29:46,480 --> 03:29:49,120
Speaker 4: a bunch of companies who specifically want to hire these

3987
03:29:49,200 --> 03:29:52,160
Speaker 4: migrant kids. And when they do that, that fucking continually

3988
03:29:52,240 --> 03:29:54,400
Speaker 4: drives out the price of housing. Because all of these

3989
03:29:54,400 --> 03:29:58,720
Speaker 4: people are competing for the same like fucking one Vedroe

3990
03:29:58,800 --> 03:30:02,720
Speaker 4: apartment for sixteen time dollars a months, right, And so

3991
03:30:02,800 --> 03:30:05,400
Speaker 4: every everything just sort of spirals in on each other

3992
03:30:06,640 --> 03:30:09,560
Speaker 4: and until you get you get a fucking thirteen year

3993
03:30:09,600 --> 03:30:13,560
Speaker 4: old working, working, fucking this is this is nine ninety six.

3994
03:30:13,600 --> 03:30:15,320
Speaker 4: This is the fucking like thing I talked about in

3995
03:30:15,360 --> 03:30:18,160
Speaker 4: China is at nine am, nine pm, six days a

3996
03:30:18,200 --> 03:30:23,120
Speaker 4: week at a fucking egg farm in Michigan. In you know,

3997
03:30:23,400 --> 03:30:26,959
Speaker 4: in any just world, people would die for this. In

3998
03:30:27,040 --> 03:30:29,680
Speaker 4: this world, and you know, people have fucking died for this.

3999
03:30:29,840 --> 03:30:31,879
Speaker 4: It's a bunch of children who are dying on their

4000
03:30:31,920 --> 03:30:36,800
Speaker 4: fucking jobs in this world though. The people, you know,

4001
03:30:36,840 --> 03:30:38,959
Speaker 4: the people who die for this are children. And the

4002
03:30:38,959 --> 03:30:43,720
Speaker 4: Biden administration again is actively aiding fucking human traffickers by

4003
03:30:43,959 --> 03:30:46,039
Speaker 4: kicking all these kids out to their families, like they're

4004
03:30:46,080 --> 03:30:48,080
Speaker 4: kicking all these people out to just like fucking anyone

4005
03:30:48,080 --> 03:30:50,520
Speaker 4: as soon as humanly possible, and not allowing these people's

4006
03:30:50,560 --> 03:30:54,120
Speaker 4: families into the country, and then doing literally nothing at

4007
03:30:54,160 --> 03:30:56,000
Speaker 4: all to ensure that like the people who are fleeing

4008
03:30:56,040 --> 03:30:59,680
Speaker 4: into this country like have a place to live, or

4009
03:30:59,760 --> 03:31:02,600
Speaker 4: like any kind of reasonable job or any way to

4010
03:31:02,640 --> 03:31:05,480
Speaker 4: support themselves, you know, and we could, we could fucking

4011
03:31:05,560 --> 03:31:07,879
Speaker 4: like there are there are individual people in the US

4012
03:31:07,920 --> 03:31:10,320
Speaker 4: who benefit from this child labor who you could fucking

4013
03:31:10,879 --> 03:31:13,640
Speaker 4: like throw into a box tomorrow, take all of their money,

4014
03:31:13,640 --> 03:31:17,200
Speaker 4: and you could fund this entire program or individual people. Right,

4015
03:31:18,200 --> 03:31:20,120
Speaker 4: No one will fucking do it. They will let these kids.

4016
03:31:20,120 --> 03:31:22,279
Speaker 4: They will let every single one of these kids die

4017
03:31:22,440 --> 03:31:25,080
Speaker 4: before a single billionaire has to fucking spend a single

4018
03:31:25,200 --> 03:31:32,600
Speaker 4: cent taking care of these kids. Meanwhile, the actual child

4019
03:31:32,760 --> 03:31:36,960
Speaker 4: laws that exists in this uh uh you know that

4020
03:31:37,080 --> 03:31:39,480
Speaker 4: that exists in the US are completely useless because regulatory

4021
03:31:39,520 --> 03:31:42,400
Speaker 4: agencies are taking one of two approaches. Either they do nothing,

4022
03:31:43,120 --> 03:31:45,200
Speaker 4: or they spend some time investigating so they can get

4023
03:31:45,240 --> 03:31:47,160
Speaker 4: a cut of the child labor money by issuing a

4024
03:31:47,200 --> 03:31:47,920
Speaker 4: fine to the company.

4025
03:31:49,720 --> 03:31:53,000
Speaker 12: Are you fucking kidding me? It gets worse.

4026
03:31:53,879 --> 03:31:57,560
Speaker 4: Now, And and this is the fun part. Merely taking

4027
03:31:57,600 --> 03:32:00,440
Speaker 4: a cut of the child labor money or doing nothing,

4028
03:32:00,720 --> 03:32:04,160
Speaker 4: those are those might arguably be the best case scenarios.

4029
03:32:04,160 --> 03:32:06,240
Speaker 4: Because the other thing that happens, and the Washington Post

4030
03:32:06,280 --> 03:32:08,520
Speaker 4: has been talking, you did a very good report about this,

4031
03:32:09,160 --> 03:32:12,720
Speaker 4: is the other thing they do is you know, either

4032
03:32:13,000 --> 03:32:15,439
Speaker 4: they effectively enter the rev share agreement with the contractors

4033
03:32:15,440 --> 03:32:19,920
Speaker 4: who are hiring these fucking human traffickers, or they do raids.

4034
03:32:20,400 --> 03:32:22,800
Speaker 4: And the product of these raids is you put is

4035
03:32:22,800 --> 03:32:25,080
Speaker 4: they put the families of the kids who are doing

4036
03:32:25,080 --> 03:32:29,280
Speaker 4: the child labor in prison or deport them, and then

4037
03:32:29,440 --> 03:32:31,560
Speaker 4: they do nothing about the actual you know, so a

4038
03:32:31,600 --> 03:32:33,880
Speaker 4: lot of what's happening is happening to contractors, right, so

4039
03:32:33,920 --> 03:32:36,840
Speaker 4: they'll find the contractor the parent company. Nothing will fucking happen.

4040
03:32:37,080 --> 03:32:39,840
Speaker 4: And the parents of these kids, who also like cannot

4041
03:32:39,879 --> 03:32:42,320
Speaker 4: fucking survive and in a lot of cases are doing

4042
03:32:42,320 --> 03:32:44,680
Speaker 4: this because literally they do not have enough money to

4043
03:32:44,680 --> 03:32:48,040
Speaker 4: pay rent or buy food for their kids. Those people

4044
03:32:48,520 --> 03:32:51,959
Speaker 4: are getting fucking sent to prison. Are the only people,

4045
03:32:52,000 --> 03:32:54,160
Speaker 4: by the way, again, the only even even though all

4046
03:32:54,160 --> 03:32:56,760
Speaker 4: of these companies are systematically hiring children, they are getting

4047
03:32:56,800 --> 03:33:00,160
Speaker 4: children killed, the only people going to prison are the

4048
03:33:00,200 --> 03:33:01,640
Speaker 4: families of the fucking kids.

4049
03:33:04,600 --> 03:33:07,360
Speaker 12: I none of it makes sense, and it makes me

4050
03:33:07,680 --> 03:33:12,240
Speaker 12: I mean, I can't really recover from any of this episode,

4051
03:33:12,520 --> 03:33:16,959
Speaker 12: and I and I shouldn't. That is the reality, But

4052
03:33:17,000 --> 03:33:21,600
Speaker 12: I just I don't know. It's it doesn't feel like

4053
03:33:21,640 --> 03:33:28,040
Speaker 12: billionaires uh will ever lose it. I guess capitalism.

4054
03:33:29,280 --> 03:33:31,560
Speaker 4: My analysis of this is that any world that allows

4055
03:33:31,640 --> 03:33:34,160
Speaker 4: us to happen is intolerable once we've burned to the ground.

4056
03:33:35,280 --> 03:33:38,440
Speaker 12: I agree, Oh, I agree. I think we're ready for

4057
03:33:38,480 --> 03:33:41,039
Speaker 12: the rapture. But by that I just mean like the

4058
03:33:41,080 --> 03:33:43,520
Speaker 12: sun exploding into us and everyone dying.

4059
03:33:44,879 --> 03:33:45,080
Speaker 7: Yeah.

4060
03:33:45,080 --> 03:33:47,560
Speaker 4: I'm going to read a bit more, because you know,

4061
03:33:47,959 --> 03:33:51,880
Speaker 4: the horror, the horrors never end. Here's in the Washington Post.

4062
03:33:52,320 --> 03:33:54,960
Speaker 4: The Grand Island teens had been hired to scour blood

4063
03:33:55,000 --> 03:33:58,560
Speaker 4: and fat from slippery kill floors using high pressure hoses,

4064
03:33:58,600 --> 03:34:01,720
Speaker 4: scalding water in a dusty foams and assets. According to

4065
03:34:01,720 --> 03:34:06,040
Speaker 4: the Labor Department in federal court records, they sanitize electric knives,

4066
03:34:06,080 --> 03:34:09,120
Speaker 4: fat skimmers, and one hundred and ninety pounds saws used

4067
03:34:09,120 --> 03:34:13,199
Speaker 4: to split cow carcasses. According to court records, some students,

4068
03:34:13,200 --> 03:34:15,400
Speaker 4: and again when they say students, they're not talking about

4069
03:34:15,440 --> 03:34:18,240
Speaker 4: college students. They're talking about middle and high school students,

4070
03:34:19,200 --> 03:34:21,880
Speaker 4: suffered chemical burns. And we're so sleep deprived after working

4071
03:34:21,959 --> 03:34:24,320
Speaker 4: their night shift, they dozed off in classes, according to

4072
03:34:24,400 --> 03:34:29,039
Speaker 4: a local prosecutor in court records when asked about the children,

4073
03:34:29,600 --> 03:34:31,640
Speaker 4: like the actual kids who are supposed to be you know,

4074
03:34:31,680 --> 03:34:34,039
Speaker 4: the ones being saved by these by the fucking Department

4075
03:34:34,080 --> 03:34:36,720
Speaker 4: of Labor raids. The Department of Labor pulled a it's

4076
03:34:36,760 --> 03:34:40,240
Speaker 4: not my departments, and we're like, yeah, fuck it, we

4077
03:34:40,240 --> 03:34:42,200
Speaker 4: don't know what happen to these kids. Hope they're okay,

4078
03:34:42,200 --> 03:34:47,440
Speaker 4: have fun. And there's one more part of this Washington

4079
03:34:47,480 --> 03:34:51,360
Speaker 4: Post article that I want to read just to sort

4080
03:34:51,360 --> 03:34:55,400
Speaker 4: of like, I don't know. I think the big problem

4081
03:34:55,480 --> 03:34:58,039
Speaker 4: with all of this coverage is that it's treating this

4082
03:34:58,120 --> 03:35:00,840
Speaker 4: problem as if it's new. Yeah, this is sort of

4083
03:35:00,920 --> 03:35:02,760
Speaker 4: like a unique product of like, oh, it's a tight

4084
03:35:02,800 --> 03:35:04,920
Speaker 4: labor market in the pandemic. It's like, no, no, it's not.

4085
03:35:07,200 --> 03:35:10,039
Speaker 4: Here's what the Washington Post. We have never in my

4086
03:35:10,160 --> 03:35:12,760
Speaker 4: memory found the types of violations that are being found

4087
03:35:12,760 --> 03:35:16,120
Speaker 4: on hazardous occupations that David wheel a professor of social

4088
03:35:16,120 --> 03:35:19,440
Speaker 4: policy and management at Brand's University who was a top

4089
03:35:19,520 --> 03:35:24,040
Speaker 4: labor official in the Obama administration, it's outrageous. Now, this

4090
03:35:24,280 --> 03:35:29,039
Speaker 4: is bullshit, dreaming Wheels Obama administration, there was absolutely a

4091
03:35:29,040 --> 03:35:32,640
Speaker 4: shit ton of migrant workers and my specifically migrant children

4092
03:35:32,720 --> 03:35:35,800
Speaker 4: workers doing a bunch of incredibly dangerous and hazardous work.

4093
03:35:36,040 --> 03:35:38,360
Speaker 4: It's just that they were mostly in agriculture. I mean

4094
03:35:38,400 --> 03:35:40,200
Speaker 4: some of them were also in slaughterhouses, right, Like, some

4095
03:35:40,240 --> 03:35:42,440
Speaker 4: of the shit was already happening as nobody paid attention

4096
03:35:42,480 --> 03:35:44,920
Speaker 4: to it, and it's gotten worse. But again, they were

4097
03:35:44,959 --> 03:35:48,400
Speaker 4: also just a shit ton of kids fucking like picking

4098
03:35:48,400 --> 03:35:51,400
Speaker 4: tomatoes in like one hundred and ten degrees in California.

4099
03:35:51,520 --> 03:35:54,640
Speaker 4: That was always happening. It was always fucking happening. Obama

4100
03:35:54,800 --> 03:35:58,440
Speaker 4: specifically made it worse because one of again, one of

4101
03:35:58,440 --> 03:36:01,480
Speaker 4: the things about using immigrant child labor is that you like,

4102
03:36:01,800 --> 03:36:04,000
Speaker 4: if if you commit a labor violation against one of these,

4103
03:36:04,000 --> 03:36:07,039
Speaker 4: against against against again someone someone who is undocumented in

4104
03:36:07,080 --> 03:36:09,680
Speaker 4: a child, what the fuck are they gonna do about it? Right?

4105
03:36:09,680 --> 03:36:11,320
Speaker 4: They can't go to the government. They go to the government,

4106
03:36:11,320 --> 03:36:11,959
Speaker 4: they get deported.

4107
03:36:12,640 --> 03:36:17,680
Speaker 12: Yeah, and Obama, Yeah, the employers know that, I mean employers, yeah,

4108
03:36:17,840 --> 03:36:21,960
Speaker 12: but like they know that they're control of the situation.

4109
03:36:22,560 --> 03:36:22,800
Speaker 6: Yeah.

4110
03:36:22,800 --> 03:36:25,720
Speaker 4: And Obama fucking helped them do it because he deported

4111
03:36:25,720 --> 03:36:29,120
Speaker 4: so many people like Obama and this fucking guy probably

4112
03:36:29,160 --> 03:36:33,240
Speaker 4: also too directly, was helping literally the worst abuses of

4113
03:36:33,280 --> 03:36:35,680
Speaker 4: this system happen over and over and over again. They

4114
03:36:35,680 --> 03:36:38,440
Speaker 4: were they were using you know, immigration, one of the earlier.

4115
03:36:38,520 --> 03:36:40,320
Speaker 4: Things you can notice about these stories is that if

4116
03:36:40,320 --> 03:36:42,760
Speaker 4: you if you look at the locations right, most of

4117
03:36:42,760 --> 03:36:44,400
Speaker 4: the places with these not all, but a lot of

4118
03:36:44,400 --> 03:36:47,280
Speaker 4: the places where these are happening are very very anti

4119
03:36:47,320 --> 03:36:50,840
Speaker 4: immigrants southern border states in the Southern states and border states.

4120
03:36:50,840 --> 03:36:53,520
Speaker 4: And the reason or or or places or some places

4121
03:36:53,560 --> 03:36:56,760
Speaker 4: in the Midwest like Kansas or Nebraska, and a lot

4122
03:36:56,800 --> 03:36:58,720
Speaker 4: of the reason why this stuff happens here, right is

4123
03:36:58,760 --> 03:37:03,000
Speaker 4: you know, if you're if if you're like, uh, if

4124
03:37:03,040 --> 03:37:05,760
Speaker 4: you're a politician, right, and you know and your your

4125
03:37:05,760 --> 03:37:08,520
Speaker 4: allies are local business owners, you get you get you

4126
03:37:08,600 --> 03:37:10,200
Speaker 4: get to play this sort of like you get you

4127
03:37:10,240 --> 03:37:12,840
Speaker 4: get to play both sides of the of the fucking spectrum. Right.

4128
03:37:14,120 --> 03:37:15,520
Speaker 4: On the one hand, you get to you get to

4129
03:37:15,600 --> 03:37:18,000
Speaker 4: keep hiring a bunch of mon documented immigrants, and on

4130
03:37:18,040 --> 03:37:20,360
Speaker 4: the other hand, you whip up this like enormous social

4131
03:37:20,440 --> 03:37:22,760
Speaker 4: hystoria about them so that all these people you know,

4132
03:37:22,840 --> 03:37:27,080
Speaker 4: can can be more effectively disciplined and crushed. Right, And

4133
03:37:27,400 --> 03:37:29,880
Speaker 4: everyone fucking knows how this game works, right, like all

4134
03:37:29,879 --> 03:37:32,080
Speaker 4: the all the people with any real power like actually

4135
03:37:32,160 --> 03:37:36,120
Speaker 4: understand this. It's it's why, it's why, Like the Justice

4136
03:37:36,160 --> 03:37:38,120
Speaker 4: Department or like you know, all of all the immigration

4137
03:37:38,120 --> 03:37:40,280
Speaker 4: agencies never go after the companies you hire people, They

4138
03:37:40,320 --> 03:37:42,320
Speaker 4: only ever go after the actual workers themselves.

4139
03:37:44,600 --> 03:37:48,000
Speaker 12: Just so upsetting because like the most in their mind,

4140
03:37:48,280 --> 03:37:54,000
Speaker 12: like the most helpful like useful person is the person

4141
03:37:54,040 --> 03:37:55,680
Speaker 12: that has like the most to lose, and they know

4142
03:37:55,760 --> 03:37:57,920
Speaker 12: that and use it against them for that reason. Yeah,

4143
03:37:57,920 --> 03:38:01,320
Speaker 12: it's just so it's just fucked up in every possible way.

4144
03:38:02,200 --> 03:38:04,440
Speaker 12: I don't know. Yeah, it's also just a little silly,

4145
03:38:04,480 --> 03:38:07,840
Speaker 12: like you said to just like I think this just happened,

4146
03:38:08,000 --> 03:38:10,520
Speaker 12: Like this is something that has clearly been building to this,

4147
03:38:10,680 --> 03:38:12,160
Speaker 12: you know what I mean. I think anyone with a

4148
03:38:12,160 --> 03:38:15,640
Speaker 12: brain can figure that out, because this kind of intricate

4149
03:38:16,760 --> 03:38:18,960
Speaker 12: system doesn't just like pop up in a year or

4150
03:38:19,000 --> 03:38:21,959
Speaker 12: two out of nowhere. It's been building it on itself.

4151
03:38:22,600 --> 03:38:23,120
Speaker 12: I don't know.

4152
03:38:26,360 --> 03:38:31,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like it yeah, Like you're definitely right, it's

4153
03:38:31,360 --> 03:38:33,200
Speaker 4: not just like yeah, it's been building for ages like

4154
03:38:33,280 --> 03:38:35,160
Speaker 4: it was just it was deliberately designed by those white

4155
03:38:35,160 --> 03:38:39,879
Speaker 4: people who like make a bunch of fucking money from it, right,

4156
03:38:40,200 --> 03:38:42,800
Speaker 4: they make slightly more money if they fucking force a

4157
03:38:42,800 --> 03:38:45,920
Speaker 4: twelve year old to clean the floor of a slaughterhouse.

4158
03:38:46,560 --> 03:38:49,520
Speaker 4: Than they do if they force like a twenty two

4159
03:38:49,640 --> 03:38:54,480
Speaker 4: year old to do it, and so they do, and.

4160
03:38:54,800 --> 03:38:55,760
Speaker 12: The last is so mad.

4161
03:38:56,280 --> 03:38:58,560
Speaker 4: Yeah. And the last thing that I want to sort

4162
03:38:58,560 --> 03:38:59,920
Speaker 4: of mention about this, right is that a lot of

4163
03:39:00,080 --> 03:39:01,800
Speaker 4: these a lot of the states where this stuff is happening,

4164
03:39:02,000 --> 03:39:03,640
Speaker 4: a lot of the states that are passing these laws

4165
03:39:03,640 --> 03:39:06,680
Speaker 4: are also states that are like simultaneously passing like enormous

4166
03:39:06,760 --> 03:39:10,360
Speaker 4: rass of anti trans legislation, like as part of their

4167
03:39:10,360 --> 03:39:12,920
Speaker 4: show called like Protect the Kids thing, And you know,

4168
03:39:12,959 --> 03:39:14,800
Speaker 4: you can talk about the hypocrisy of it, right, but

4169
03:39:14,920 --> 03:39:16,800
Speaker 4: I think the important thing to understand here is that

4170
03:39:16,840 --> 03:39:19,720
Speaker 4: Protect the Kids was always racialized, Like they don't give

4171
03:39:19,720 --> 03:39:21,920
Speaker 4: a shit about the kids dying and meatpacking plants because

4172
03:39:21,920 --> 03:39:24,920
Speaker 4: they aren't white, right, They're immigrant kids who these freaks

4173
03:39:24,959 --> 03:39:26,879
Speaker 4: want to fucking kill anyways, And if those kids die

4174
03:39:26,879 --> 03:39:32,280
Speaker 4: in the job, nobody gives a shit, right, So.

4175
03:39:33,240 --> 03:39:37,720
Speaker 12: It makes it's upsetting also because the majority of these kids,

4176
03:39:37,800 --> 03:39:39,120
Speaker 12: I don't want to say majority, I don't want to

4177
03:39:39,160 --> 03:39:41,120
Speaker 12: speak for anybody, but I feel like these kids also

4178
03:39:43,120 --> 03:39:45,720
Speaker 12: they need to work in their minds, you know what

4179
03:39:45,760 --> 03:39:47,879
Speaker 12: I mean, Like they're like, I have no other choice,

4180
03:39:48,040 --> 03:39:50,840
Speaker 12: No one's helping me. This is the only option I have,

4181
03:39:51,800 --> 03:39:54,800
Speaker 12: and it just becomes this like snaky in its own

4182
03:39:54,800 --> 03:39:57,800
Speaker 12: tail bullshit where it's just I don't know, there's no

4183
03:39:58,120 --> 03:40:01,200
Speaker 12: there's no good out for them because no one's fucking

4184
03:40:01,240 --> 03:40:04,080
Speaker 12: helping them and their family's not there and they need

4185
03:40:04,120 --> 03:40:06,480
Speaker 12: to fucking survive. So it's this thing where it's like

4186
03:40:07,400 --> 03:40:10,600
Speaker 12: they're consenting to it in a in a sick way,

4187
03:40:10,640 --> 03:40:12,720
Speaker 12: like not because they not, because they're consenting to it

4188
03:40:12,760 --> 03:40:15,200
Speaker 12: because they want to because they need to to survive.

4189
03:40:15,920 --> 03:40:20,680
Speaker 12: And the people that are in power know that and

4190
03:40:20,760 --> 03:40:23,120
Speaker 12: take advantage of it. And I don't know, the lack

4191
03:40:23,120 --> 03:40:27,080
Speaker 12: of empathy across the board is just inhumane and disgusting

4192
03:40:27,080 --> 03:40:27,720
Speaker 12: and I hate that.

4193
03:40:28,760 --> 03:40:31,240
Speaker 4: I don't know. That's that's all I have, other than

4194
03:40:31,280 --> 03:40:36,480
Speaker 4: a general exportation that like every single part of the

4195
03:40:36,520 --> 03:40:39,200
Speaker 4: system that produces this, the entire border regime, the US

4196
03:40:39,280 --> 03:40:41,879
Speaker 4: labor regime, the regime, the sort of family regimes and

4197
03:40:41,920 --> 03:40:44,440
Speaker 4: this stuff relies on, like all of it needs to

4198
03:40:44,480 --> 03:40:47,520
Speaker 4: fucking go, and we need to do it before another

4199
03:40:47,600 --> 03:40:49,560
Speaker 4: kid gets fucking killed on a factory floor.

4200
03:40:51,400 --> 03:40:55,000
Speaker 12: Yeah, I have a hard time not feeling like it's

4201
03:40:55,040 --> 03:40:58,520
Speaker 12: too big and it's I'm too helpless and there's nothing

4202
03:40:58,560 --> 03:41:01,480
Speaker 12: to do. But I think stuff just raising awareness and

4203
03:41:01,480 --> 03:41:04,879
Speaker 12: not pretending this doesn't happen here or just started happening.

4204
03:41:05,160 --> 03:41:07,720
Speaker 12: I think that's a good step in the right direction.

4205
03:41:09,160 --> 03:41:09,560
Speaker 12: I don't know.

4206
03:41:10,360 --> 03:41:12,120
Speaker 4: I think one way to look at it is that

4207
03:41:12,959 --> 03:41:17,280
Speaker 4: like there there there have been regimes that are a

4208
03:41:17,360 --> 03:41:21,959
Speaker 4: lot more powerful and a lot sort of a lot

4209
03:41:22,000 --> 03:41:27,200
Speaker 4: more willing to kill, that have been brought down and

4210
03:41:27,280 --> 03:41:31,480
Speaker 4: have collapsed don't exist anymore. So, you know, as as

4211
03:41:31,600 --> 03:41:34,960
Speaker 4: as bad as everything looks on any given day, right,

4212
03:41:35,200 --> 03:41:37,720
Speaker 4: like people people have done this before, they'll do it again.

4213
03:41:38,720 --> 03:41:41,840
Speaker 4: And you know it's at some at some point they're like,

4214
03:41:41,959 --> 03:41:44,440
Speaker 4: we will hit a point where it's fucking too much,

4215
03:41:45,240 --> 03:41:49,119
Speaker 4: it will cease to be You're right, and our responsibility

4216
03:41:49,280 --> 03:41:51,519
Speaker 4: is to get everyone to that point.

4217
03:41:52,360 --> 03:41:58,359
Speaker 12: Yeah. I think it takes longer when the like insidiousness

4218
03:41:58,440 --> 03:42:00,760
Speaker 12: or the evilness is more subtle. Quote you know what

4219
03:42:00,840 --> 03:42:03,360
Speaker 12: I mean, Like when it's not so outright in your face.

4220
03:42:03,840 --> 03:42:06,560
Speaker 12: It's almost like it really takes longer to burn out.

4221
03:42:06,680 --> 03:42:13,280
Speaker 12: And yeah, we're just in that burning out phase. Yep, well,

4222
03:42:14,680 --> 03:42:16,160
Speaker 12: glad I enjoyed you.

4223
03:42:16,280 --> 03:42:20,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, this is to make it up here wage

4224
03:42:20,840 --> 03:42:25,200
Speaker 4: war against the capitalist system and the people who kill

4225
03:42:25,280 --> 03:42:27,120
Speaker 4: children for money.

4226
03:42:29,720 --> 03:42:32,879
Speaker 1: Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

4227
03:42:32,959 --> 03:42:34,840
Speaker 1: from now until the heat death of the universe.

4228
03:42:35,440 --> 03:42:37,959
Speaker 9: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

4229
03:42:38,040 --> 03:42:40,720
Speaker 9: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

4230
03:42:40,720 --> 03:42:42,959
Speaker 9: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

4231
03:42:43,000 --> 03:42:46,439
Speaker 9: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

4232
03:42:46,800 --> 03:42:48,920
Speaker 9: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated

4233
03:42:49,000 --> 03:42:53,080
Speaker 9: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.