WEBVTT - Katie’s One-on-One with Senator Lisa Murkowski 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:02.840 What if there were a way to reduce cancer deaths 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:06.120 by half in the next twenty five years. This is 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:10.360 the future Exact Sciences works toward every single day because 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:14.360 they believe it's possible. Exact Sciences is a dedicated team 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.880 of cancer fighters united by a purpose to help eradicate 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:23.120 cancer by preventing it, detecting it earlier, and guiding personalized treatment. 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:26.480 Visit exacsciences dot com to learn more. 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.920 This Republican senator can tell you that I am getting 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:37.400 the calls that I'm sure all of my Republican colleagues 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:39.960 are that are saying, as a Republican, your job is 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:41.760 to line up with the president. Why are you even 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.400 questioning any of this? Why are you even questioning this? 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.640 And I say, well, because I'm a United States Senator. 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.040 I swore an oath to the Constitution, not to the President, 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.000 and so I know what my responsibilities are under Article one. 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.280 Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric and this is Next Question. 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:05.880 Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kirk and this is a very 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.520 special edition of Next Question. This episode is coming to 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:13.520 you from Washington, DC, in fact, the home of Senator 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:17.280 Lisa Murkowski. She is one of the most independent voices 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.399 in the US Senate and isn't afraid to take a 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.440 stand even when it's at odds with her own party. 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.520 She has written a new book called Far from Home. 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:31.360 An Alaskan Senator faces the extreme climate of Washington, d C. 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.280 And there is plenty to talk about, not only the book, 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.080 but what's happening in Washington and in this country. Senator 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:41.040 mccowski is so good to see you. Thank you for 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:42.400 inviting us into your home. 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.400 Well, thank you, thank you for making the track down. 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:48.760 This is where I plant myself when I'm here in 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.560 d C and not back in Alaska. 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:53.160 And this is where your dad lives. 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.440 Yeah, So tell people. 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:58.240 About your dad, because for some of a certain age 0:01:58.280 --> 0:01:59.840 they might not know who he is. 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.200 Well, he came to the Senate in nineteen eighty riding 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.320 the coattails of Ronald Reagan. My dad had been in 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:13.040 the banking business in Alaska for basically his whole professional life. 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:17.760 He had attempted one run at the House of Representatives 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:24.880 in nineteen seventy, who was actually defeated by Congressman Nick Beggage. 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.360 Kind of sounds like deja vous all over again. Some 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:32.160 people say, are there other political families in Alaska, Murkowski's 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:35.160 and the Beggages. We laugh about it, but there is 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.720 some history there. So anyway, my dad was a banker 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.520 and chose to run for the United States Senate in 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:46.480 nineteen eighty wins and served in the Senate for over 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:50.560 twenty years. And then I decided that it was time 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.080 to come back home, time to return to Alaska, and 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.600 so he ran for governor and served as governor for 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:01.840 one term, and it was that vacancy that was created. 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.560 Then he had two more years in his term when 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.880 he ran for governor. And so my story, my political story, 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:15.560 kind of begins then in two thousand and two when 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:21.359 he made probably the most dangerous political decision in appointing 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:26.520 me to fill the final years of his term. 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.760 And you were not and to it right. So I 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:31.960 was ninety years old, you said, no way. 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:33.440 I was smart enough to know that. 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.120 Dad, this is called nepotism. You know, you didn't want 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:38.800 to be the original nepho baby. 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:42.360 I did not. And besides that, I had a really 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.680 nice life back home. My husband and I were living 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.360 the life in Anchorage. We had two great kids. There 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:53.880 were young young guys at the time, little boys, Nick 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:59.360 and Matt, and I was living my political dream, which 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:03.760 was to be in the Alaska legislature. I was a 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:08.040 House representative for a small district in Anchorage, Alaska. 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:09.360 You've been head of the PTA. 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.680 That was my political launch was the PTA at my 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.960 son's elementary school. It was a Title I school, so 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.560 we had all kinds of challenges and it allowed me 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.360 to kind of get my feet wet into doing some 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:26.400 really good community things that made me feel good about 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:30.599 what we were doing for other people, and it made 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.239 a difference. It made a difference, and I think about 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:38.000 that kind of as my initial political grounding and why 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:41.080 you do the things that you do Because I was working, 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:45.000 I was raising kids, I had a life, and to 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:50.920 take on an extra layer of responsibility was like, oh 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:51.880 do I need to do this? 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.960 But pretty daunty, right, But your dad kind of guilted 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:56.640 you into it. 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:01.520 You know. I come from a family where it's you're 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.160 supposed to contribute. I think I've got a pretty good 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.400 work ethic, and I think it comes from from my parents, 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.680 who who just had good principled work ethic. We worked 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.200 together as a family, but there was also how do 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.520 you give back? How do you give back? To your communities. 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.400 So you can give back as a PTA president working 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:24.359 for the kids. You can give back in political office 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.120 by saying I can make a difference for little my 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:28.080 little district. 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:30.880 Insue. By the way, I want to mention was a 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.160 big family. I didn't realize how many kids run your family. 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.280 We didn't think that it was that big at the time. 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:40.560 There were six kids and great family. Really, my brothers 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.880 and my sister, my brothers and sisters, we are the 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.800 tightest of friends to this day, and I think it's 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:53.480 because of that, because of ken of the we work together, 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:57.320 we play together as a family, and that made really really, 0:05:57.440 --> 0:05:59.920 really strong, strong bond. 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.039 Tell me again, though, how your dad, I read this, 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:07.920 convinced you. He basically was disappointed when you were hesitant, right. 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:14.240 Well, I think he didn't understand why I would not 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:18.159 want it. Certainly, being in the United States Senate very prestigious, 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:22.520 and he had really done his due diligence. I think 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.400 there was a list of about twenty five people on 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.640 that list, some notable people that people even outside the 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.320 state of Alaska had recognized. Sarah Palin was on the list, 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:34.560 but I was on the list as well, and I 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:38.080 kind of thought it was almost a gratuitous thing. And 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.240 he said, no, others have suggested your name, and so 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.520 I want to know if you want to be included 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.480 in the mix. And I said, look, you've got great 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:49.320 names on the list. I am not your pick. And 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:52.440 long and short of this is we kind of went 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.960 back and forth over a period of a month and 0:06:56.000 --> 0:07:01.600 a half and he said, I keep coming back to you. 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:06.839 I want to know if you will consider it, and 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.680 I said, no, I don't want to leave me alone. 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:16.280 And then he plays the guilt card. He said, you 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:21.560 love our state. You know you could make a difference, 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:26.320 and you have an obligation to your state to try 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:30.080 to make it better. So think about it. And so 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:31.800 you know, when you lay that on, it's like, okay, 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:35.360 I'll think about it. But then period of weeks go 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:39.200 by and I'm not hearing anything. So I figure, of fufta, 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:41.600 I'm in the clear. I don't have to do this. 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:46.000 I can stay focused on my life in Juno as 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.720 a legislator and my life at home in Anchorage with 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:54.560 my family. And December eighteenth, I'm in the barbershop with 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:56.760 the boys, getting their haircut so they look good for 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.400 the Christmas pictures and I get this telephone call from 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:01.840 my dad and he's like, hey, did you get did 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.920 you get the FedEx package? I'm like what? Anyway, he 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:11.120 had recalled a conversation from years ago when we were 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.440 sitting around at campfire and he brought out a pair 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:17.440 of really not very attractive knitted socks, blue and gold, 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.120 looking like the state flag with little stars on him. 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:23.880 And I kind of joked with him about, gosh, where'd 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.160 you get those ugly socks? And he said, you know, 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:30.280 some constituent knitted them for me. And you know, this 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.440 is what you get when you're a United States senator. 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.160 And I said, WHOA, wouldn't that be great one day 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:35.840 to be a United States Senator so I could get 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:37.880 a Para Sox like that. Anyway, he sent me the 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:43.160 Paara Sox and that was when I said, you know, 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:47.160 maybe I do have an obligation that is deeper than 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:52.319 what I'm doing in Geno. And so we said yes, 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.640 and here we are twenty three years later. 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:59.040 Meanwhile, I want to give some props to your mom 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.559 because he she is truly the smartest one in your family. 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:07.760 And is mom smart? She looked, you know, well, you know. 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.520 My dad was the big public figure right He was 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:14.400 the senator, he was the banker. She was the glue. 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.439 She made sure that when he called up at four 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.440 point thirty and said, I'm bringing home some folks from 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.720 out of town for dinner, she's already feeding six kids 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.839 and a husband who's been gone all day long, and 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:32.040 she doesn't miss a beat. She puts another four place 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.960 settings on an already big table and makes it happen. 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:37.640 And never complained ever. 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:40.880 Really, no, no, no, maybe once in a while, No, 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.560 not even not even. My mom is probably the least 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:48.640 athletically inclined person out there, and you know what, she 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.600 would be there with us when we would go, when 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.720 we go do our downhill skiing trek, when we hiked 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:57.640 the chill Cooot trail. She doesn't like to get her 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:01.240 her head underwater, but by gosh, she'll everything else in 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.520 the water with us. And she is just such an 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:09.200 extraordinary woman. My folks are both ninety two now and 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:13.920 they are dang independent and health and good health. 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:15.560 But it's so lucky. 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:19.199 I am so blessed. My family is blessed. 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.800 It sounds like Alaska was such a fun place to 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.720 grow up. And you're from a pretty small town, right, Senator. Yeah, 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.840 And I've never been to Alaska, but it must just 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:36.360 be so beautiful. And I know in your book you 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.280 write about really your heart is in Alaska and when 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.640 you go there, you know your home and just the 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:48.440 beautiful surroundings. What was that like. I know you don't 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.400 know any differently, but wow, you're jealous. 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:55.360 Well, and yeah, I said, I'm blessed with my family. 0:10:55.400 --> 0:11:00.840 I am blessed with the extraordinary state that I live in. 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:05.040 Is it is so different every area I grew up 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:10.520 in southeastern Alaska, where it's it's small little island communities 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:15.520 with massive trees and the cliffs that go straight up 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:20.280 and then down into the ocean. The wildness, the rawness, 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:27.680 the softness. At the same time, there's something different about Alaska. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:32.800 The air smells cleaner and more pure. The color of 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:40.239 the sky is richer, the trees smell differently, the flowers 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.440 are more intense in their colors. It's just kind of 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:47.360 it is a land of extremes and it's harsh at 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.679 the same time. But that beauty is something that is 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:56.360 just difficult to describe, and I never ever get tired 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:00.200 of it. We raised our boys in Anchorage, and we 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.199 lived in this part of town, an old part of town. 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:08.240 Sits above the hill, right overlooking downtown, so we're really 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.760 close into everything that's going on. The railroad tracks are 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.760 right below us. The military base is right behind us. 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:19.280 But every day I would drive over the bridge and 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.440 you look out and here's the same mountain range that's 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.160 been there since time immemorial. 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:24.440 Right. 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.679 And my boys recalled me calling them the oh my 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:33.040 gosh mountains because same view every day, and I'd look 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.240 over and it's say, oh my gosh, it's so beautiful. 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:42.360 It never gets old. People are talking on the radio Latasha. Oh, 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:46.120 by the way, d Nali's out today, Like what is 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:49.640 that all about? Well, the mountain is so majestic today, 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:53.640 and the sky is so clear that the mountain's out today. 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.200 It's an amazing place. It makes me smile. But what 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.000 is more important to my day ja here in Washington, 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.040 d C. Is how when I am home, I am 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.199 filled up because this place can deplete you, it can 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:11.679 suck everything out of you. And I get on that 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:16.000 plane and you know, eleven to twelve hours later, four 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.720 hours time difference, four thousand miles, I'm home and I 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.160 feel it, and it's my attitude that lives. I feel 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.480 like I can breathe better. I just fill everything up 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.240 so that when I come back here on that Monday, 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:31.920 I got room to go, I got gas in my tanks. 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:33.280 And it really makes a difference. 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.640 Have you finally adjusted to life in the nation's capital, 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:41.520 because you write about initially feeling this was an utterly 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:46.439 foreign world and moments, I mean days when you felt 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:51.600 profound loneliness. Have you gotten used to it? 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.480 I think I've gotten used to it? Have I Have 0:13:58.640 --> 0:13:59.400 I liked it? 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.720 No? Really, I grew up near here, so this is 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.440 sort of my hometown and it's not Alaska, granted. But 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:08.160 there's some nice things about. 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.640 Oh there are, and there are some beautiful things about it. 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:17.400 In fact, COVID was really interesting that time period when 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.480 I was I was stuck here. I wasn't flying back 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.360 and forth. My husband was Alaska. I was pretty much 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.400 pretty much on my own work in my own little 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.000 office here by myself. But I would make myself go 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:36.240 out for long walks and just appreciate the beauty of 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.680 the spring in Washington, d C. And the architecture. I 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:45.080 loved looking at the different doors, what color they were painted. 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.640 It is beautiful, but it's still not home. And even 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:53.520 though we've lived in this home for for years now, 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.400 it is still not home my home. When people say 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:02.600 are you going home, I mean that home back in Alaska. 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.040 You've had, as you said, a very long career as 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.240 a senator, but there was a pivotal moment for you 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.040 that I think perhaps you see it as before and after, 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.920 and that was in twenty ten when you lost the 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.240 Republican primary to Joe Miller, who was a Tea Party 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:24.760 back candidate. But instead of stepping aside, you launched an 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:31.320 historic writing campaign and against yach you won. And Courtney, 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.480 my producer, and I were talking, No, I don't have 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.080 one fact. We were going to see if you had 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:36.200 any extras I do. 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.520 This is what Vern did. He turned the plastic band 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.720 into gold. Oh that is so cool, so fill it in, 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:44.400 write it in. 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:49.120 So basically, you had bracelets made or someone made bracelets. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.760 Cover bracelets because strong bracelets. 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:55.240 Right. They wanted everyone to make sure they spelled your 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:56.000 name correctly. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.920 Right, they needed to spell the name correctly in a 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.400 write in. But you also had to make sure that 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.560 you filled in the little bubble next to the line, 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.200 the line said right in. My name was nowhere on 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.960 a ballot. That's kind of scary you going in. It's like, oh, 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.440 I'm a for election, but my name is nowhere. And 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:16.600 it was just a line and it said right in. 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.560 And if you wrote my name in and you spelled 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.440 it perfectly, but you failed to fill in the bubble, 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:23.840 it didn't count. 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.400 It took a lot of confidence to do that, didn't it, Senator. 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.720 I mean, it could have ended in sort of humiliation, 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:35.360 but it didn't. You won. What gave you the courage 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:35.960 to do that? 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:40.080 Well, my brother said, Lisa, you know, what you're trying 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.160 to do is next to impossible. There was a right 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:48.480 successful rite in nineteen fifty four with strom Thurman different circumstances. 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.400 Murkowski is not easy to spell. The only way that 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.960 you can prevail is if you are an evangelist with 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:02.680 a cause. Need to believe that this can be real 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.360 in order to make this happen. And the only way 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.320 that people can believe is if you believe yourself that 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:16.160 it can happen. And I don't know which came first, 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:21.919 because it was considered to be a fool's errand in 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.159 the eyes of most people, in Washington, d C. To 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:28.760 try to do a campaign. The professionals, the consultants were 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:32.920 all gone, the pollsters were gone. When the Republican Party 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:37.760 said Republican Primary says, this is your Republican nominee, people 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.240 went with Joe Miller. I can't fault them for that. 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.720 That's what happens around here. I get it. And so 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.160 we were going to have to do this on our own. 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:48.840 And the money wasn't going to flow because nobody's going 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.639 to give money to somebody that's on a fool's errand. 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:56.159 And so it was Alaska that had to make the commitment. 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:02.919 And when they started, they random people, strangers on a 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.200 bike stopping in the middle of the street, the janitor 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:10.200 rolling the garbage can through the airport stopping me and saying, 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:14.760 you got to give me an opportunity to vote for you. 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.919 You have to do this for me. It made me 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:20.679 believe that we could do this, that we could do 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:21.520 the impossible. 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.479 And then when you won, how did that liberate you? 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:30.240 How did that make you believe more in yourself and 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:34.240 your own conscience? Because it was a turning point, wasn't it. 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:39.119 Oh, it was pivotal in so many ways. Yes, It 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.639 was historic from an election perspective, right in terms of 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.960 what Alaskans had done. One hundred and three thousand Alaskans 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:51.400 had been taught how to not only participate in this 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.760 ride in election, but to do so in a way 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:59.879 that was legible enough so that the courts backed up 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:05.400 the counting, because, believe it or not, even a correct 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:09.119 spelling was being challenged by my opponent. If there was 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.880 an exclamation point at the end of Lisa Murkowski or 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.680 one that was really offensive to me, somebody had put 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.560 a heart instead of dotting the eye, they wanted to 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.400 challenge that. I'm sorry, that's voter intent is pretty clear 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:27.760 that I think that they really wanted to support me anyway. 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:34.400 It was a turning point for me in understanding who 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:39.480 I really worked for. The Republican Party did not return 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:43.400 me to the Senate. It was not the Republicans of Alaska. 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:50.680 It was this wild, crazy mix of Republicans and Democrats, 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:57.720 conservatives and liberals, Independents, Greens, libertarians, people who say it's 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.560 none of your damn business what my party is. These 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:05.040 were the people that took a risk, who said I'm 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.600 not throwing away my vote by doing this. This is 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:13.200 a very proactive action on my part to say who 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:15.840 I want. There was no I'm going to pick the 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:20.840 lesser of two evils. It was a statement of conviction 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:25.480 and intentional, absolutely intentional in every way. And that is 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:30.320 so freeing when you have when you have this, many 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:36.680 Alaskans across the board say I don't care what the 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:40.080 party has said. My choice is. I want to have 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.520 a choice, and she is my choice. And that was 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:47.760 very freeing, and that continues to be kind of my 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:55.359 entry point to a focus that says, I'm not going 0:20:55.480 --> 0:21:02.119 to be looking to the Republican talking points. I'm going 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:08.800 to evaluate this on whether or not these policies work 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:10.520 best for Alaskans. 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:16.080 You have developed a reputation for being an independent thinker, 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:21.960 someone who is interested in bipartisan problem solving, and because 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:24.919 of this, you and your colleague Susan Collins of Maine 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:30.639 often find yourself the deciding votes on closely divided legislation 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:34.840 or high profile confirmations. How much pressure do you feel 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:36.560 because of that? 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:43.840 You know there's pressure, and I suppose that I put 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:52.160 that pressure on me because I am evaluating. I'm being 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:59.480 open in trying to determine the right direction I suppose 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.920 if I wanted to remove that pressure, I could very 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:07.160 easily just tow the party line not have to really 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:13.000 think through the pros and cons or whether or not 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:16.240 you know how it's going to look if I vote 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.480 with the Democrats on something, how it's going to look 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:24.359 when I vote against the president on something. I could 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:28.720 very easily remove that pressure. But I don't think that's 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:32.280 why Alaskan sent me back. I think they sent me 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:37.160 back not only in twenty ten, but when I ran 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.119 again in twenty sixteen and won, and in twenty twenty 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:43.240 two and one. I think they sent me back because 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:50.359 they wanted me to represent them. And so do I 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:51.120 like the pressure? 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:51.240 No? 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:56.360 No, no, I could. I could have a much more. 0:22:57.400 --> 0:22:59.959 I could have my evenings free instead of all that 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:01.639 stuff sitting over there in the corner. That's all my 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:04.880 homework just for the weekend. I could make my life 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:09.199 much easier. But I don't think that's what Alaskans expected me. 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:13.480 When was the most pressure exerted on you in terms 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:17.000 of a vote? 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:21.720 And again, keep in mind, there is external pressure that comes, 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:25.800 whether it's from your constituents, maybe from the administration, and 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:29.440 then there is the pressure that you place on yourself, right. 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:36.840 I describe in the book during the first impeachment where 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:43.960 there is a very arcane inside baseball process going on 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:49.080 in this Senate with regards to calling witnesses and the 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:52.800 role that Chief Justice John Roberts was going to be 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:58.040 placed in. So much of that pressure that I describe 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:04.080 was my own internal conflict. I don't think most people 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:06.800 were viewing that in a way where I need to 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:08.680 I need to call, I need to write, I need 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:11.000 to protest, I need to do something. That was pressure 0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:14.879 on me. I think clearly with with Kavanaugh, that was 0:24:14.920 --> 0:24:21.640 a vote where there was certainly pressure coming from Alaskans, 0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:26.639 pressure coming from the administration, pressure coming from my conference. 0:24:27.520 --> 0:24:31.200 There was a lot of external pressure there, and that 0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:35.160 was that was hard. That was a very very difficult 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:36.159 vote vote for me. 0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:40.359 What kind of pressure from the administration did you experience? Well? 0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:43.720 I did not, you know, I didn't get a call 0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:46.240 from the from the President of the United States saying Lisa, 0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:48.639 you have to you have to do this or then that. 0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:53.640 I think I think not only folks in the administration, 0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:57.639 but the people that I work with know that I 0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:04.600 don't respond well to that. I've worked with Leader McConnell 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:07.720 for a long time when he was our majority leader, 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:13.600 and I think he realized that giving me more information 0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:19.320 was probably more persuasive to me than saying you have 0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:20.320 to stick with the team. 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:23.280 But on the other hand, you receive threats that if 0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:27.000