1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace and the middle of a 2 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: bowling alley. You think everybody's having fun, because I know 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: we do lots of fun at the bowling alley. But 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: how does a little girl seemingly disappear into thin air 5 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: from the middle of a bowling alley with her family there? 6 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: How does that happen? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. When 7 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: I go bowling with the twins with or without my 8 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: husband David, I can see them sitting right there. They 9 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: don't just disappe here into thin air. But that is 10 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:07,559 Speaker 1: exactly what happened to this little girl. We want answers. 11 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this. It was 12 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: January twenty third. Tika was at a crowded bowling alley 13 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: with her family in Tacoma, Washington. Members of the family 14 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: were taking turns watching Tika and some other young children 15 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: with them, and they were distracted for a few moments. 16 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: When they turned around, she was gone. Since then, no 17 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: one has seen her. Now I get being distracted at 18 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: the bowling alley because when as you're turned to bowl, 19 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: you get the ball, you go up, you set your 20 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: sights on the pins, and you roll it out. You 21 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,559 Speaker 1: see what happens. You wait and you see your score, 22 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: so you're looking. I would guess at least a minute. 23 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: And I know what a lot of functions say at 24 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: a church function or a family reunion, or where you 25 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: feel you know everybody, you're not staring at your child 26 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: the whole time. How did this little girl just two 27 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: years old? She's beautiful? How does she go missing in 28 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: a crowded bowling alley? Again, thank you for being with 29 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: us here at Fox Station sleven. I want to introduce 30 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: to you an all star panel of guests, each one 31 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: an expert in their own right to try to make 32 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: sense of it all with me. Dale Carson, criminal defense 33 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: attorney joining us out of Jacksonville. Not just a criminal 34 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: defense attorney, renowned criminal defense attorney, but former FBI and 35 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: former co author of Arrest Proof Yourself. I don't like that, 36 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: but the rest I like a lot. Psychoanalyst to the stars, 37 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: joining us out of La Doctor Bethany Marshall. You can 38 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com and she's 39 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: star of a brand new Netflix series, Bling Empire. Investigator 40 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: Dan Scott, former La County Sheriff sergeant twenty six years 41 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: special Victims Bureau specializing in child old cases. Olivia Lavoy's 42 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: crime reporter joining us for qute thirteen Fox at Seattle 43 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: and you can find her on Twitter at q thirteen Olivia. 44 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: But first I want to go to a very special 45 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: guest joining us, a woman I feel that I befriended 46 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: over the years, Teresa English. This is Tica's mother and 47 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: you can find her at to go fund me help 48 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: pay for a private investigator, and boy do they need one. 49 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: First of all, Miss English, thank you for being with us. 50 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of blame I'll just put it 51 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: out there has been cast on you because you're the 52 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: mom Antica disappeared on your watch. But after many, many 53 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: investigations into this particular case, I think the attacks on 54 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: you are unjustified. Tell me, Miss English, what happened? What 55 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: do you remember of the night Tica just disappeared the 56 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: boy alley. It was a family function. I had family 57 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: members there's I had my brother and my sister in laws, 58 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: I had my boyfriend at the time, and we were 59 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: all just having fun, you know, and Pica was Miss 60 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: Miss English. Miss English, look write this down, because you 61 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: know what, the many times I've looked this case. I 62 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: didn't know how who what members of your extended family 63 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: were there? Was this some kind of a reunion or 64 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: a get together of sorts. It was a get together 65 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: because I never got out the house. You know, I 66 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: had four other kids. So my brother invited me to 67 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: go out with them and my oldest three daughters. They 68 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: went with their aunt and I had my two youngest one. 69 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: I had my two year old and my ten months 70 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 1: old at the time, the two year old and you're 71 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,799 Speaker 1: ten months old. Oh man, you got your hands full. 72 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: I know how it was when the twins or ten 73 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: months old. How they were when they were two years 74 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: old and they were starting to walk. Okay, so your 75 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: brother is his wife there, His wife is there. My 76 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: other brother and his girlfriend was there. Yes. Did they 77 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: have children and were the children there? Yes, my brother 78 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: had his son and he was oh, he was just 79 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: a couple of months old, so he was focused on 80 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: his baby boy. And what about the second brother, he 81 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: was his girl with him and his wife. It was 82 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: him and his girl. Yeah, him and his girlfriend at 83 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: the time. Did they have children, No, they didn't have 84 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: no kids. So it was you, your brother and his wife, 85 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: the brother and the girlfriend. The infant son. The brother 86 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: had anybody else from your family? Oh, your boyfriend yes 87 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: at the time, yes, and anybody else. M my sister, 88 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: she had her family members there, so it was a 89 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: it was a big group. How many family members did 90 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: your sister, Brian? Oh, there was probably like six seven 91 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: other ones, So it was a pretty big group. Now, 92 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: hold of just a moment, Miss English, I want to 93 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: go straight out to Dell Carson joining us out of 94 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,679 Speaker 1: Jacksonville right now now, not only a criminal defense attorney, 95 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: but former FBI and deal. You know, that's kind of 96 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,679 Speaker 1: it's almost like a family reunion. And I am lulled 97 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: into a sense of complacency when I'm at a family 98 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: get together because you feel like with your own family 99 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: so many of them around, for pete sake, that's at 100 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: least twelve people, I think right there, you feel safe 101 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: and you feel like everybody is watching each other's children, 102 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: or at least I would feel that way. Well, that's right, 103 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: And I think that one of the odd things that 104 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: we don't understand about petophiles and serial killers is that 105 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 1: they often communicate with one another. And it's a known 106 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: fact in those circles that amusement areas are prime for 107 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: picking up potential victims. And we here in Florida where 108 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: these arcades as they were back in the nineties. Of 109 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: course it's different today. We're basically used as a stomping 110 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: ground for people picking up young boys and girls who 111 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: would be runaways and end up in those places. And 112 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: they would go in and they'd place a stack of quarters, 113 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: which were used at that time to operate the machines, 114 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: and that's how they would lure them. So I don't 115 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: think anybody really realizes that. When you're in a family 116 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: group like that and you're paying attention to one another, 117 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: you're certainly not expecting that someone would think that an 118 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: amusement area is someplace where you might find an abductive child. 119 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: And so I think, you know what, I'm very torn 120 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: about what you're saying. Part of me knows that it's true. 121 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: But I remember my brother, my older brother, helped put 122 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: himself to college working at one of those arcades send 123 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: them all at the time, I also worked at them 124 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: all at Sears and Robot Okay, And I would go 125 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: by and I would see my brother, you know, there, 126 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: and he's about seven or eight years older than me, 127 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: And I never thought of it that way. But let 128 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: me tell you this deal. One of the first, not 129 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: the first, but one of the first childless station cases 130 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: I had was a little boy I recalled. He was 131 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: about nine to eleven years old, and he was learning disabled, 132 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: could hardly speak, and he loved the video arcade deal, 133 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: loved it and his mom would give him a role 134 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: of quarters and take him to the video kade and arcade, 135 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: not sit in the parking lot and work or whatever 136 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: she was doing, and then you know they'd go home. Well, 137 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: one time she found I think it was a twenty 138 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: dollar folded up bill in his pocket. Turns out at 139 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: the arcade he had met a pedophile who would sodomize 140 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: the little boy and in payment would give him some quarters. 141 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: So it seems like a very innocent place when I 142 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: was growing up working at Series and Robot, it's not 143 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: always innocent. Time stories with Nancy Grace and I want 144 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: to follow up on what deal. Courson lawyer right at 145 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: Jacksonville is saying with Dan Scott, former La County's sheriffs sergeant, 146 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 1: he's right. So while mom who's with us right now, 147 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: Teresa English is minding her own business as she's there 148 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: with her two babies. You don't think, wow, right over there, 149 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: that group of people, I don't know what of them 150 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: could be a pedophile. I've been so freaked out about 151 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: this case. When I took the children alone when they 152 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: were two or three, starting, you know, going bowling and playing, 153 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: They'd have to go everywhere with me, even to the bathroom. 154 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: We could hardly get through a game of bowling because 155 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: whenever one of them had to go, we'd all go. 156 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: Because of this case, Tica's case, jump in, Dan Scott. 157 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: It's always easy in the first person you blame is 158 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: the mom or the parents, But you have to remember, 159 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: these are predators that solely look for children. They are 160 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: experts at it. They're experts at blending in. Yes, it's scary, 161 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: and yes we do our best to watch our children 162 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: at all times, but it only takes a moment to 163 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: turn your attention away when these people will snatch. That's 164 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: all they do is think about where they can taine 165 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: a child. What you just said something that really hits 166 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: home to me. In fact, you just gave me chills 167 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: on my arm. You said that's all they think about. 168 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: You're right, For instance, all I think about besides prime 169 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: stories is the twins? What am I going to cook 170 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: them for dinner? What are they what's their homework assignment? 171 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: Where do they have to be? What's the latest in scouts? 172 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: All of that. I'm consumed with that. That's all they 173 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: think about. And I want you to take a listen 174 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: to this. This is our friends at crime online dot com. 175 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: Listen as Ticca Lewis is playing in one of the 176 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: driving games in the Bowling Alley arcade, her mother, Teresa English, 177 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: looks way just for a few moments to check on 178 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: her other children in one of the bowling lanes. When 179 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: English turns back around, Tica is gone. English looks around 180 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: and between the other games, then runs to the nearby 181 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: ladies room to check there no Tica. Just six feet 182 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: away from the arcade where Tica was playing is a 183 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: side door to the Mowling Alley. Teresa English runs through 184 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: the door and into the parking lot, screaming her daughter's name, 185 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: Where is Tica? Oh? Miss English? Miss English? Miss English. 186 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: You know I can hear that one hundred times, and 187 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: every time it's just so upsetting. Tell me when you 188 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: first notice, Miss English, that Tica wasn't or what was happening? 189 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: I was freaked out. You know, um me having four 190 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: other kids and Tica was my everything, you know, from 191 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: day one, from the day I had her, she was 192 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: my everything. I freaked out, you know you. I mean, 193 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: I was at a padding. I looked over you in 194 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: the video games because she was gone. I told her. 195 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: I told everybody in the group, I said, Tika's not here, 196 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: Tika's gone. You know, where is she? And what were 197 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: you doing? Were you bowling? Were you watching somebody bowl? 198 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: What happened when you turned around? What made you realize 199 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: she wasn't there? I went to bowl. It was my 200 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: turn to bull. So I went to Bull and Tica 201 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: was there because you know, I had just seen her, 202 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: and I told her, I'm gonna go Bull. I'll be 203 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: right back. And so I went to go Bull. I 204 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: turned around, and it took that quick for her to 205 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: be gone. It was just like within a couple of seconds. 206 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: Because I went to boy, I didn't change, I didn't 207 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: check my score. I turned around, you know, if she 208 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: was gone that quick. Joining me right now is doctor 209 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold. She's around a psychiatrists joining us out of 210 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: the Atlanta jurisdiction, and you can find her at angela 211 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: Arnold MD dot com. Doctor Angie, I have to tell 212 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: you something. Hearing Teresa English talk, yes and listen. You 213 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: know I will jump on a mom in a New 214 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: York minute if I think they have anything to do 215 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: something that happened to their child. You know that. I 216 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,359 Speaker 1: know that when I hear Teresa English talk, it literally 217 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: is giving me chill bumps because it reminds me of 218 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: the day I was in the Babies or Us. You know, 219 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: that big warehouse thing looking for organic suntan leisure, and 220 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: I was down on the very boy I'm leveling that. 221 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: It was really tall shelf like they do it lows 222 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: maybe your home depot. And I was all the way 223 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: down there. John David Lucy were right behind me, and 224 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: I was digging around trying to find it, and I 225 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: couldn't find it. I stood up and I was looking 226 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: up and down. I said, well, I guess that I'll 227 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: have it. And I turned around it there was Lucy, 228 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: no John David, and that feeling. It's awful. I will 229 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: never forget it as long as I live. And I 230 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: really am angry that people have been blaming miss English. 231 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: She went up to bowl. She turns around and Tika's gone. 232 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: She immediately sounds the along. Can you imagine running to 233 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: the ladies bathroom think, oh, she's going to be in there, 234 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: and you and calm down, this is gonna be okay. 235 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: You go in there, she's not there, and then you 236 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: can feel it rising in your chest. I'm really angry 237 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: with people blaming Miss English all this time, you know, Nancy, 238 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: I think that the people who have the audacity to 239 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: blame the mother have never been They must not be 240 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: mothers themselves, because I think that practically every mother has 241 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: turned their back for a minute and their children have 242 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: gone missing. And I have felt that panic. I was 243 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: at Linux Mall one time, turned around in jim Boree 244 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: and my two little babies were gone. I almost had 245 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: the whole mall locked down. And then some woman comes 246 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: walking down the thing, down the sidewalk or whatever you 247 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: want to call it, and she had my children and 248 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: she goes they were watching TV at Pottery Barn, and 249 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: I was fine, dear lord, And that's half way to 250 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: tell them all. I'll make this quick, but I just 251 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: have to tell you one more thing. I was out 252 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: in Arizona covering the Jody Arias trial and the three 253 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: of us were staying in a hotel and I had 254 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: had the twins out at the pool. We were coming 255 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: in and we all got on the elevator. I pushed 256 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: John David in. I said, Lucy, come on. Lucy just froze. 257 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: The elevator closed. I tried to get her. I came 258 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: immediately back down. As soon as I started pushing all 259 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: the buttons, she was gone. Oh my gosh. She got 260 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: on another elevator and I was running up and down 261 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: all through China. Can you imagine some perv had grabbed 262 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: her on another floor. I would never have found her. 263 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: I found her. But my point is, in that moment, 264 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: in that split second, you can lose your child through 265 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: no wrongdoing of your own. Joining me right now, in 266 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: addition to Teresa English, just as Tica's mother is a 267 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: very well known crime reporter Olivia La Voie joining us 268 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: from Q thirteen Fox Seattle. Olivia tell me about this 269 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: bowling alley where Tica goes missing. But the bowling alley 270 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: is no longer there. But at the time it was 271 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: incredibly popular, and especially on a Saturday night, and at 272 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: the time the Tica went missing around ten pm, it 273 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: was very crowded, and I think that that contributed to 274 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: the chaos of that night. I mean, on one hand, 275 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: you might think, oh, the more people the better, because 276 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: that means there's more witnesses. But in this case, it 277 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,239 Speaker 1: seems to have been detrimental. You know, there's reports that 278 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: it was so loud in the bowling alley that when 279 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: the manager initially went on the loudspeaker to announce that 280 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: Tica was missing, that it was difficult to hear. It 281 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: seemed like, you know, people weren't stopping in their tracks 282 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: and listening per se. So yes, very very crowded that night, 283 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: in particular, Oh Olivia voice, just hearry that skin crawl, 284 00:17:48,320 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: because it seems like everything was going wrong. Time stories 285 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace too. Teresa English, this is Tika's mother 286 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: and please go to her go fund me help pay 287 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: for a private investigator, and they need one desperately, Miss English. 288 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: Show you run to the bathroom looking for Tica, and 289 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: what happens. My sister in law's sister was in there 290 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: and I asked her, I said, is Tika there? And 291 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: she was like no, And I said, she's gone. She's 292 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: nowhere to be found. So I went up to the announcer, 293 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: and I said, and there was an off duty officer 294 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: there and he was supposed to be patrolling the grounds, 295 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: but he wasn't. He was watching everybody bowl. And I 296 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: told him, I said, my daughter's gone. And he said, 297 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: are you sure? And I said yes. We searched everywhere, everywhere, 298 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: and I said, we need help. I need my daughter. 299 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: And he told everybody to look for a child underneath there. 300 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,719 Speaker 1: She might have fell asleep. I said, she didn't fall asleep, 301 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: she's nowhere. We searched everywhere already. I said, we need 302 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 1: back up. You guys need to bring more law enforce 303 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: over here. I mean, my baby. My baby's gone. So 304 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: like twenty thirty minutes later, that's when the first officer 305 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 1: came in. My baby was long gone by then. And 306 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: I told him, you guys took too long. It's too 307 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: long of a wait. Guys, I want you to hear 308 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: our friends at crime all one, Tyler, could you please 309 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: play our cut zero zero b as in brother Teresa 310 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: English realizes she needs help and grabs an off duty 311 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,959 Speaker 1: to come a police officer working for the bowling alley. 312 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: After another search that to come a police, the FBI, 313 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: and the National Center for Missing Unexploded Children are called 314 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: in throughout the night, hundreds of officers search the woods 315 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: and go door to door in a nearby residential neighborhood 316 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: with concerns of a family abduction. Relatives are questioned. Teresa 317 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: English voluntarily submits to two polygraph exams. Tika's father has 318 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: an ironclad alibi. The parents are cleared. More than two 319 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: dozen detectives are working on Tika's case full time. Take 320 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: a listen to this. We had gone to that Bowling 321 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: Alley plenty of times, and that was kind of an 322 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: area where people would kind of just come there with 323 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: their families and kids can kind of roam. Saturday night, 324 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: January twenty third, nineteen ninety nine, New Frontiers Bowling Alley 325 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: was filled with people who had become part of a nightmare. 326 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: One teenage boy in particular, but he had no way 327 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: of knowing that. Then I had to use the restroom, 328 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: so I went towards where the restrooms, where this rude 329 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: guy bumped into me with this little girl. And since 330 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: he was white and Tika is mixed, or you know, 331 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: the little girl was mixed, I just thought it was 332 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: a father just rushing his daughter to the bathroom. The 333 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: night went on as usual. When the team and his 334 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: family went to leave, they noticed police were searching for something, 335 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: but they wouldn't know what, or rather who, until days later. 336 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend Olivia will Avoye thirteen Fox. Olivia 337 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: tell me about the sighting of a white male rushing 338 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: by holding the hand of a little girl. I think 339 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: that this witness sighting is absolutely key to the case 340 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: that witness. I interviewed him twenty one years later. He's 341 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: now an adult man, and you can tell how much 342 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: what he saw that night has stuck with him because 343 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: a few days after he bumps into this man. You know, 344 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: it's a distinct memory for him because he says it 345 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: was so jarring for him as a teenager to have 346 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: this adult man bump into him and not acknowledge it 347 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: and just you know, keep going. And also the man 348 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: had deep pock marks on his face. The teenage boy 349 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: he had never seen anything like that. That really stood 350 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: out to him. And then three days later he see 351 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: he's take his face all over the news and he says, 352 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: that's that's the little girl that was with demand the 353 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: rude man that night, And he immediately his family immediately 354 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: alerted police. Police did speak with him one back then 355 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine, but that was that was it. 356 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: It took, you know, over twenty years for this tip 357 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: to be unearthed by a cold case detective who's zeroed 358 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: in on it and felt like, you know, this is 359 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: this is truly important. People really need to hear this 360 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: suspect description. Tyler. I'd like for everyone to hear our 361 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: cut zero two. This is Olivia Levoy's Q thirteen thoughts. Listen. 362 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 1: The little girl he saw that night when he came 363 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: face to face with the rude man was Tita Lewis. 364 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: The two year old who was at the bowling alley 365 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: was a dozen family members when in an instant she vanished, 366 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: I had to say something, so he did. He was 367 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 1: interviewed by detectives in January nineteen ninety nine, but then nothing, 368 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: No one contacted me. I was easy to find. Maybe 369 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: what I had to say just wasn't relevant or it 370 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: wasn't useful. Flash forward two decades. Someone did think what 371 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: he had to say was most definitely relevant and useful. 372 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: The cold case investigator who picked through thousands of pages 373 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: and hundreds of tips when he spotted the one that 374 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: leaped off the page. This witness actually describes a type 375 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: of encounter with Tika by this individual, and the description 376 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: of the individual is not generic, it's it's specific, and 377 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: it's in its details. It is a very detail. Now 378 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: listen to our cut zero seven. Listen. At that time, 379 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: there would have been no way for the collar to 380 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: a man with a popmarked had been mentioned in the 381 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: first few days of the investigation. The individual that we're 382 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: trying to identify is a white male five foot eleven 383 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: with a husky build. He is described as having a 384 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: shoulder length brown, curly or wavy hair, with a thick 385 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: mustache and a heavily pockmarked face. The night of Tika's disappearance, 386 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,959 Speaker 1: he was wearing a blue flannel shirt and faded jeans. 387 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: His motivation to solve this case is simple, Tika's mother. 388 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: It really makes it easy to try to keep the 389 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: case alive for her and to try to find her 390 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: some answers. She has never given up on her daughter, 391 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: finding her daughter, and I really admire that he's not 392 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: going to stop looking until we find them. And she 393 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: is with us today rosa English. She says, Tika's mother 394 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: has ever given up and now you know more than 395 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: ever why they need a private eye on this case. 396 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: You can go to go fund me help pay for 397 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: a private investigator. This mother, Teresa English, is still trying 398 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: to find her girl. Think about it. Would you give up? 399 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I would never give up, and neither has she. 400 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: Back to Olivia Levoy's crime reporter Q thirteen Fox joining 401 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: us out of Seattle, Olivia, I hear the reporter stating 402 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: that a car called in about a white male with 403 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: pot marks on his face. Who was the caller? So 404 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: the caller was a woman who was at the Bowling 405 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: Alley about a week or so after Tika's disappearance. I 406 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: think it was actually less than that, just a matter 407 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: of days, and America's Most Wanted was at the Bowling 408 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: Alley shooting a re enactment of the case to feature 409 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: the case, and this woman that a man with a 410 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: heavily pockmarked face was hanging around the news crew, and 411 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: she felt, you know, I mean, it's not unusual that 412 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 1: if america is Most Wanted is in your town filming 413 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: something that you know, you might hang around and watch. 414 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: But this individual's behavior was so odd to her that 415 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: she called the Tacoma Police Department to say, hey, you 416 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,959 Speaker 1: guys should check this guy out. Here's this description. Something 417 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: was off with him, just the way he was sort 418 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: of lurking. And in the description she notes that he 419 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: has a heavily pockmark face. And the detective, the cold 420 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: case detective who connected these tips, said, there's no way 421 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: that's a coincidence. There's no way that woman could have 422 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: known that we had another witness see a man with 423 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: pockmark face with pica that night. Okay, a lot of 424 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: things crashing in my head right now, but one thing 425 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: that tells me and Scott former La County Sheriff sergeant 426 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: twenty six years SVU is that this guy is local. 427 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: It's not that he was coming through the interstate that night, 428 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: maybe a trucker or maybe a visitor. He's local because 429 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: he's still in town a week later when America's must 430 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: wanted shows up at the Bowling Alley to do a reenact, 431 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: he's still there. This guy is local. I agree completely, 432 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: and it's a tragedy that they did not The police 433 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: did not pick up on this. I mean, I hate 434 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: to bash anybody in second guess him, but there were 435 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: opportunities to put that description out to the public. That 436 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: information needs to be out immediately. They did call the FBI, 437 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: which is what they should have done, and they got 438 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: the assistance because the FBI is excellent at this type 439 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: of crime. But how they missed that, I have no 440 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: idea if they have got that unique description out of 441 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: the public. I agree he is probably a local, or was, 442 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: at least at the time. Time stories with Nancy Grace 443 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: back to Teresa English, just as Tika's mother. Teresa, again, 444 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: thank you so much. Sometimes I hate to ask to 445 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: speak to you because I don't want to dredge everything 446 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: back up again, but yet I feel we have to. 447 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: What do you make of these reports of the white 448 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: male with pot marks? I mean, come on, You've got 449 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: a white male with pot marks seeing that night, plowing 450 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: through a crowd dragging a little girl that matches Tika's 451 00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: description by the hand. Then you see this guy, this 452 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: freaky dude, a white male with pop marks, showing up 453 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: at the re enact with America's most woman back at 454 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: the bowling alley. You don't know how mad I was 455 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: when I found out this information. I was living, you know, 456 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: knowing that this young teenager came up to you know, 457 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: called three days later and said that he's seen who 458 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: Toutica and they did nothing about this nothing. I want 459 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: to follow up on what we're talking about. I guess 460 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: you've all heard of the missing and murdered Atlanta children, 461 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: the Wayne Williams case. The guy that brought me under 462 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: his wing when I joined the District Attorney's office was 463 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: ahead of the appeals division and he had worked on 464 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: the Wayne Williams case. My boss, mister Slayton, had tried 465 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: the case along with others. And one of the facts 466 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: and let me throw this out to you Del Carson 467 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: and doctor Angela Arnold, is that Wayne Williams the murderer. 468 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: I think of most of the missing and murdered young men, 469 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: they ranged in ages from like ten and eleven up 470 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: to twenty one. He fancied himself to be a freelance reporter, 471 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: and before anybody else would know about the missing child 472 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: or the body discovered, he would show up. It could 473 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: be three o'clock in the morning, could be six o'clock 474 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: in the one and Wayne Williams would show up with 475 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: a camera. How the hey did he know? Well, of 476 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: course he was the perpetrator. Well, yeah, he's the perpetrator. 477 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: And that's the fact that a lot of people are saying, oh, way, 478 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: Williams didn't do it. He did it. Now, I don't 479 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,719 Speaker 1: know if you did all of it, because once he 480 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: was convicted on some of them, a lot of other 481 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: murders were chalked up to him with similar emmos. But 482 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: my point here is that people often return to the 483 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: scene and there he was showing up with all the 484 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: cops with impunity because he had a handheld camera. And 485 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: now this h has back up at the bowling alley 486 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,239 Speaker 1: and they're siding in plane fight. Nancy, Why did they 487 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: come back to the safe? Remember how Scott Peterson. We'll 488 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: go back to San Francisco Bay and look out on 489 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: the water. I guess it was waiting to see him. 490 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: Lacy was going to pop up. Well, it's pleasure that 491 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,959 Speaker 1: drives them back. They want to enjoy the results of 492 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: their behavior. And more than that, we've learned from this. 493 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: The Bureau has learned from this since the Wayne william case, 494 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: in which I was directly involved. Get back in Atlanta, 495 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: and I will simply tell you that we now film 496 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: funerals and a number of other things looking for the 497 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: subject of the purp to show up again. And it's 498 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: interesting in connection with the America's Most Wanted. You wonder 499 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: if they still have film and the cameras they kept 500 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: to look back into the crowd to see if that 501 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: individual is there. Because we understand, and the detective Sargeant 502 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: Mela will tell you this, we understand that people get 503 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: pleasure out of this. They want to come and see 504 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: what's happening. So their pleasure is derived in part from 505 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: actually witnessing the suffering of individuals whom they have injured. Oh, 506 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold, he said it so perfectly. Can't you 507 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: just see this guy coming back and just luxuriating, like 508 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: bathing in the reenactments and enjoying seeing everyone there trying 509 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: to solve the crime. And in Psyche, he knows that 510 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: he took Tika, Yes, and he got away with it. 511 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: And it sounds like this man got away with so 512 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: many things. And as I said a few minutes ago, 513 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: living in plain sight of everyone, so many clues, so 514 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,239 Speaker 1: many clues. You know, Nancy, what I'm thinking about, and 515 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: I know this is too little, too late. I think 516 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: that some of these places should have things that identify 517 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: people as they come in and you can't just come 518 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: and go willy nilly without people know when you're there. 519 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: You know how they you know how. It's some places 520 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: you have to have your arm mark so that you 521 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: can't leave with someone else's child. Yes, I think some 522 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: of these things need to be instituted. At places like 523 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: Bowling Alley. You know they have a land an go 524 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: in without a child, and you know at Chucky Cheese 525 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: you have to get your arm mark here. Lord. Oh 526 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: my husband, when I was doing Dancing with the Stars 527 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: behind my bat would take the twist to Chuckie Cheese 528 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: who lost John David every single time, like four times. 529 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: And when I found out there was no more Chucky Cheese, 530 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: that was it. He could not see them in a crowd. 531 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: No offense to David, he's a saint. But it wasn't 532 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: just that. Tyler. Let's play zero zero c our friends 533 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: at clim online. Tyler. A few years after Tika goes missing, 534 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,479 Speaker 1: cold case detectives for view old police reports they'd focus 535 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: on those involving children who had been approached by a 536 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: stranger around the Bowling Alley. There had been several The 537 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: year before Tika disappear, a man reported to security that 538 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: his four year old son had been assaulted in the 539 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: restroom by a white man with curly brown hair and 540 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,439 Speaker 1: a beard. A few weeks before Tica disappeared, the mother 541 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: of a six year old boy stopped and attempted abduction 542 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,240 Speaker 1: of her son. The suspect also described as a white 543 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: male with brown hair. And on the same day Tica 544 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: went missing, there was another incident. A man had taken 545 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,919 Speaker 1: his two children to the park less than a mile 546 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: away from New Frontier Lanes. He saw a stranger near 547 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: the bathrooms who was motioning for the two children to 548 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: come to him. The father chased the man off. He 549 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: was a white male with brown hair wearing a baseball hat. 550 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: He's never been identified at this close proximity to the 551 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: bowling alley. That is no coincidence. I want you to 552 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: hear Tica's father talking about when Tica goes missing. This 553 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: is Shelby Miller ki r O seven. I've thought of 554 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: my daughter every single day. January twenty third, nineteen ninety 555 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: Robert Lewis's life changed forever. Police say someone abducted his innocent, 556 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,800 Speaker 1: brown eyed baby girl from the New Frontier Bowling Alley 557 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: into coma more than two decades later, Robert hasn't given up. Hope. 558 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: We sit there and rewatched Blues Clues and she have 559 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: her tweety bird snippers on, and that's what I remember, 560 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 1: just my little baby. Thursday to come on. Police release 561 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 1: new details about the investigation. Detectives are searching for information 562 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: about a white man who's thirty to forty years old, 563 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: has brown, curly hair, a mustache, and pock marks on 564 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: his face. They say he was seen at the Bowling 565 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 1: Alley the night the two year old was abducted. These 566 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: developments stopped Tika's father in his tracks. Put me right 567 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: back to nineteen ninety nine. Got the phone call to 568 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: Olivia la Voice crime reporter with Cute thirteen Fox Again, Olivia, 569 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. A lot of the 570 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: reporting has been done by you, a lot of the 571 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: investigative work. Where does the case stand right now? Olivia? 572 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: You know, unfortunately there hasn't been much movement with the case, 573 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: which is incredibly disappointing because when we released this new 574 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: information over a year ago now about a year and 575 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: a half ago, we really thought this was going to 576 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: be it. This suspect description was surely going to get 577 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: investigators some very solid leads on who this suspect could be, 578 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: and that just hasn't happened. So I feel it's very 579 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: important to keep that suspect description out there to remind 580 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: people this individual had a deeply pockmarked face. Surely someone 581 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: out there has to know who we're describing. If you 582 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: want to see a sketch of the suspect, please go 583 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: to crime online dot com. Also you can see an 584 00:36:53,680 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: age progressed sketch or photo of Tika to Teresa English, 585 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: Miss English, I know you have other children, but there's 586 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: no way to feel the empty hole of Tica missing. 587 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,879 Speaker 1: Tell me how you get through each day. If it 588 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,439 Speaker 1: wasn't from my other kids, I probably wouldn't be here. 589 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: You know, I have a missing piece in my heart. 590 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: You know, my everything is gone, and the only thing 591 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: that's going to put my heart to hold is to 592 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: find out what happened to my daughter. You know, it's 593 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: been twenty two years old, my daughter's about to turn 594 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 1: twenty five, and I've been living a nightmare because I 595 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: don't know what happened to my daughter, you know, And 596 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: is the police really working on my daughter's case? No, 597 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: they're not, they're not. And all I've asked for twenty 598 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 1: two years, is what happened to Tica? Who took my baby? 599 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: Who took her? Now they know, they just need to 600 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: find out who this man is. They could have found 601 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: her twenty two years ago. If they wouldn't listened to 602 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: this witness, they would have brought him back in. This 603 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 1: is a credible witness. This man still remembers from day 604 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: one about what this man looks like. This man showed up. 605 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,760 Speaker 1: This should have been you know, he showed up twice 606 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 1: at the bowling Alley. They should have took that when 607 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,879 Speaker 1: people were coming forward saying, hey, this is the guy. 608 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: We need to find out who this man is. Where 609 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: is Pica? Where is she? If she's not out here 610 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 1: no more? We just want to find out where she's at. 611 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: What did you do with her? All we want is closure, 612 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: and we've been asking that for twenty two years now. 613 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,320 Speaker 1: All we want is closure. If you know or even 614 00:38:52,719 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 1: think you know anything regarding the white mail, Brian down hair, 615 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: heavily pot marked face. If you think you know anything, 616 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: please dial two five three five nine one fifty nine 617 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 1: fifty nine. Repeat two five three five nine one fifty 618 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: nine fifty nine or crime Stoppers, which is eight hundred 619 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 1: two two two tips, eight hundred two two two eight 620 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: four seven seven. Our prayers, Fatika go on, but we 621 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:45,919 Speaker 1: want justice. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off, Goodbye friend,